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00:08:39 <CakeProphet> elliott: oops. oh well, at least I'm not a condescending shitfingered cunt. :D :D :D
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00:16:21 <CakeProphet> calamari: I get tired of the usual insult.
00:16:33 <CakeProphet> shitfingered cunt has very evocative imagery.
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00:25:44 <CakeProphet> so imagine you have a (possinly infinite) graph that is your program expression.
00:26:35 <CakeProphet> now imagine that instead of reducing things "bottom to top" you reduce them in whatever direction you like (i.e. you can non-strictly evaluate in multiple directions)
00:29:00 <zzo38> I found out that in GHCi, if you want to assign an IO result to a variable, you should first enter the IO expression at the prompt and then use: let x = it if you want the variable to be called x
00:30:18 <zzo38> Graphics.DVI now will find ligature/kerning:
00:30:32 <zzo38> findLK (charLigKern $ characters tenrm !! 102) 105 = Just (Ligature {lkChar = 105, ligChar = 12, ligCode = 0})
00:30:44 <zzo38> findLK (charLigKern $ characters tenrm !! 65) 86 = Just (Kerning {lkChar = 86, kernDist = -72819})
00:30:56 <zzo38> findLK (charLigKern $ characters tenrm !! 64) 85 = Nothing
00:31:28 <CakeProphet> is there something like "graph automatons" akin to CA?
00:32:46 <elliott> <zzo38> I found out that in GHCi, if you want to assign an IO result to a variable, you should first enter the IO expression at the prompt and then use: let x = it if you want the variable to be called x
00:33:09 <zzo38> O, yes, that works too
00:33:16 <zzo38> But I didn't know that at first
00:35:02 <CakeProphet> elliott: bah ais beat me. :P ah well, doesn't mean I can't do it differently.
00:37:53 <zzo38> How do I remove interactive bindings?
00:38:46 <CakeProphet> ah yes, I see how I can do it differently.
00:38:51 <zzo38> No I want to remove only some bindings
00:40:27 <oerjan> i think you can only shadow them.
00:42:37 <CakeProphet> the difficult part will be determining evaluation order.
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00:56:50 <CakeProphet> is that the graph nodes are all single digits 0-9
00:57:59 <CakeProphet> each digit performs a different operation, and evaluation order is determined by the priority of the node.
00:58:28 <CakeProphet> each tick, 9's evaluate first, and 0's evaluate last.
00:58:47 <CakeProphet> so it kind of works like a CA, except it's a graph..
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01:09:13 <CakeProphet> I'm tempted to throw together a set of completely incoherent operations
01:09:19 <CakeProphet> this is essentially what I did with dupdog.
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01:11:02 <CakeProphet> but instead, I think I'll just take my time working out what each digit + node degree results in.
01:12:23 <CakeProphet> so for example 0s and 1s with degree 1 or 2 remain inert, and would basically represent binary data. however for higher degrees they would do... something else that I haven't figured out.
01:14:59 <Vorpal> elliott, I'll upload some screenshots of Skyrim shortly. Unlike videos or jpeg compressed screenshots (which seems to be the norm from what I seen) these should actually let you judge the graphical quality.
01:15:08 <Vorpal> also fraps is really bad for the FPS
01:16:34 <Vorpal> elliott, I notice no stuttering without Fraps running, but with it (I used it for the screenshots since prtsc didn't work in the game for some reason) its FPS display reports 40 FPS and I notice some frame rate drop too.
01:16:49 <elliott> i think there's meant to be a less laggy capturing tool
01:17:37 <Vorpal> well I have 33 MB of screenshots as pngs
01:17:44 <Vorpal> note, this is just a few files
01:18:00 <elliott> i'm about to leave shortly, so i'll probably see them tomorrow
01:18:45 <Vorpal> elliott, while the screenshots should contain no spoilers, there are some pictures from buildings a fair bit into the game. If you haven't played it, it is just some pretty (or not so pretty) architecture.
01:20:14 <Vorpal> elliott, the first one is up at http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/
01:20:52 <elliott> huh, the HUD interface looks kind of amateurish like that, the castle icon thing
01:21:05 <Vorpal> elliott, look at the second
01:21:10 <Vorpal> elliott, not so pretty eh?
01:21:19 <elliott> unfortunately i have to go now :( will they still be up tomorrow?
01:21:33 <Vorpal> elliott, designed for console rather than PC
01:21:51 <Vorpal> elliott, but sure, they /may/ be there tomorrow
01:22:01 <Vorpal> elliott, unless I get a cease-and-desist
01:23:10 <elliott> cease and desist showing off our crappy textures
01:23:13 <Vorpal> <rwg> Vorpal, horses and chickens can report you to the authorities in skyrim :P
01:23:19 <Vorpal> elliott, as in, if you steal
01:23:29 <Vorpal> elliott, topic was "bugs"
01:23:53 <Vorpal> elliott, but yeah I seen a few understandable and some rather weird bugs
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03:15:46 <Gregor> elliott: Now is a good time for me to reappear.
03:24:05 <zzo38> Can you make a ligaturing program to increment an arbitrary sized number?
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05:41:00 <Sgeo|chromcrash> const void * const ((*foo)(const float *,int *(*)(float *,int,int),void())[5]);
05:43:54 <zzo38> Sgeo|chromcrash: It seems to be a C code for a function type?
05:44:36 <zzo38> Out of context it is difficult to understand what its purpose is.
05:45:33 <Sgeo|chromcrash> zzo38: Someone posted it in another channel and said that if anyone figured it out they'd get 255 internet cookies
05:47:55 <madbr> that's like a function pointer no?
05:48:46 <zzo38> madbr: Yes I think so
05:48:58 <madbr> pointer to function that returns a constant pointer to constant data or something like that
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06:56:10 <Gregor> It's an array of five function pointers. Each points to a function returning a pointer which is mega-super-duper-constant (can't change it, can't change thru it). The functions take a constant float pointer/array, a function (float *,int,int)->int *, and whatever a "void()" is (that one stumps me ... generic function pointer maybe?)
06:56:46 <Gregor> Right, that return type "const void *const" in fact indicates that it's constant and also always returns the same value for the same inputs.
06:58:42 <Gregor> Still not sure about void() though.
07:01:02 <Gregor> Perhaps it has something to do with variadic arguments ...
07:02:22 <Gregor> Yup, can't figure out what void() means and it's not searchable online :P
07:11:03 <Gregor> Problem is it can't just be void, you can't have void as a parameter >_>
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08:21:26 <shachaf> Sgeo|chromcrash: Do you know the "declarations use the same syntax as expressions" trick for reading C declarations?
08:28:52 <shachaf> Sgeo|chromcrash: The trick is basically "declarations use the same syntax as expressions".
08:29:12 <shachaf> For example, "int x;" declares x as an integer; "int *x;" declares *x as an integer.
08:31:10 <shachaf> If you have a function blah that takes two doubles and returns a pointer to a double, then "*(*blah)(5.0,3.0)" is a double; therefore "double *(*blah)(double x, double y);" declares that function.
08:32:54 <shachaf> If you have an array yak of pointers to functions that take ints and return void and you want to call one, you say "(*yak[1])(8)"; therefore you can declare yak as "void (*yak[5])(int);"
08:42:32 <fizzie> cdecl> explain const void * const ((*foo)(const float *,int *(*)(float *,int,int),void())[5]);
08:42:35 <fizzie> declare foo as pointer to function (pointer to const float, pointer to function (pointer to float, int, int) returning pointer to int, function returning void) returning array 5 of const pointer to const void
08:49:55 <fizzie> Also: $ echo 'const void * const ((*foo)(const float *,int *(*)(float *,int,int),void())[5]);' | gcc -std=c99 -pedantic -Wall -Wextra -x c -
08:49:58 <fizzie> <stdin>:1:23: error: ‘foo’ declared as function returning an array
08:50:01 <fizzie> <stdin>:1:23: warning: type qualifiers ignored on function return type
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08:51:33 <fizzie> Or "error: function cannot return array type 'void const *const [5]'" if you ask clang.
08:52:11 <shachaf> I wonder why returning arrays is illegal.
08:53:23 <shachaf> You can always put them in a struct, after all.
08:54:09 <fizzie> You couldn't assign the return value anywhere, for one thing.
08:55:19 <shachaf> I guess that's true. Why isn't that allowed too? :-)
08:55:27 <fizzie> That of course just transforms into the question of why array assignment is illegal when array-in-a-struct assignment is just fine, yes.
08:55:39 <fizzie> Hysterical raisins, maybe.
08:56:24 <shachaf> Raisins tend to be far funnier than they ought to.
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09:13:52 <pikhq> I'm inclined to just say "C arrays suck".
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09:16:20 <Taneb> Stupid connection problems
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09:54:26 <Taneb> http://pastebin.com/NM6TRF8R
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10:02:42 <Taneb> Any thoughts on that?
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10:47:38 <Taneb> Morning Phantom_Hoover
10:48:42 <Taneb> You're in the same time zone as me.
11:00:09 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/mad87/what_is_d%C3%A9j%C3%A0_vu/
11:00:23 <Phantom_Hoover> This is possibly the most heavily-pruned AskScience thread I've seen.
11:01:34 <Taneb> You know, I only go on reddit when it's linked on the #esoteric channel family?
11:08:33 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, did you see the native res skyrim screenshots I made?
11:08:40 <Vorpal> http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/
11:08:44 <Vorpal> in case you are interested
11:09:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that one is the sporks server. Just the domain name changed.
11:09:26 <Vorpal> because network got renamed
11:09:47 <Phantom_Hoover> http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-03-46-22.png
11:09:52 <Jafet> Is it just me or do those rocks look just a bit too specular
11:09:56 <Jafet> http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-03-38-38.png
11:10:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, the game is clearly designed for consoles
11:10:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, where you don't really see stuff up close
11:10:25 <Vorpal> because the TV is further away than a computer monitor
11:10:45 <Vorpal> Jafet, I believe it is snow and ice on them, not sure though
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11:11:06 <Vorpal> Jafet, and there is direct sunlight on parts, while other parts are in shadow
11:11:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, eh; we're not exactly the kind of people to start judging a game based on the graphics.
11:11:23 <Jafet> There is no snow nor ice, only direct3d parameters
11:11:44 <Vorpal> anyway I prefer the graphics of Witcher 2. Way better
11:11:50 <Jafet> And damn, that rock thingy looks specular.
11:12:03 <fizzie> That's some ugly snow, yes.
11:12:19 <Vorpal> still, looks better than oblivion
11:12:37 <Vorpal> but yes, it is clearly not up to scratch with high end PC graphics
11:12:54 <Phantom_Hoover> ISTR hearing that the system requirements were actually fairly low.
11:12:55 <fizzie> It doesn't look too bad from a distance, I guess.
11:13:14 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, indeed. I'm running it on ultra graphics settings
11:13:44 <Jafet> I played Fallout 3, and it also had shiny rocks everywhere
11:13:46 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway I think consoles like xbos 360 has 512 MB RAM or some such
11:13:47 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: You're supposed to go all "ooh, shiny!", not "yuck, shiny!" on it.
11:13:51 <Phantom_Hoover> I guess I can just pretend all the rocks in Skyrim are muscovite?
11:13:53 <Jafet> And shiny dirt and shiny rubble
11:14:01 <Jafet> And shiny concrete pieces
11:14:25 <fizzie> Jafet: Possibly polishing dirt is a common occupation in the post-apocalyptic era.
11:14:42 <Jafet> Could be all the lasers
11:14:46 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, obviously, how else are you meant to get all that radiation off?
11:15:15 <Vorpal> also I find that the HUD looks fairly bad
11:15:23 <Vorpal> it feels out of place in the setting
11:15:58 <Jafet> Don't worry, there will soon be a mod for fix each of those things
11:16:01 <Vorpal> from a pure aesthetic point of view, the HUD and menus of oblivion were better
11:16:35 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well from the point of view of navigating the menus, skyrim is /way/ better than oblivion
11:16:48 <Jafet> And then there will be a mod to make the menus look exactly like Oblivion's
11:16:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I find the font used in skyrim is pretty bad too
11:17:03 <Taneb> Nah, getting to it
11:17:16 <Jafet> And then there will be a mod to make females naked
11:17:29 <Vorpal> Jafet, and another one to make children killable
11:17:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, shush, you're sounding like elliott at his worst.
11:17:35 <Taneb> Hehe just got a funny idea
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11:18:06 <Jafet> Vorpal: are you sure gamers want to kill them?
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11:18:26 <Taneb> That wasn't the funny idea, by the way
11:18:29 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, Jafet: other funny thing. When you create your character all the attributes are sliders. Including the gender one. However it only have two positions.
11:18:36 <Vorpal> but why make it a full length slider
11:18:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Jafet, yes, because gamers want to kill everything, and the inability to kill a class of things just makes them want to kill them all the more.
11:19:00 <fizzie> Vorpal: The gender-slider's something elliott also complained about.
11:19:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, Simon and elliott have both poked fun at that.
11:19:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, and yogscast too
11:19:17 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, snap :P
11:19:22 <Taneb> I'm not going to get Skyrim
11:19:24 <Taneb> Not for a while anyway
11:19:36 <Jafet> I can think of worse things gamers might think of doing to children in a video game
11:19:47 <fizzie> 50 eur sounds a bit much for a game with only two genders, yes.
11:19:48 <Vorpal> yeah unless you are a die hard TES fan, you are better off waiting for some of the bugs to get fixed
11:19:53 <Vorpal> yes, it has quite a few bugs
11:20:25 <Taneb> Jafet, take them to the theatre to see the Nutcracker Suite as a hip-hop interpretive dance?
11:20:36 <Vorpal> like dragons crash landing on a slope. The rag doll physics seem to have problem handling that, resulting in some very odd looking animations.l
11:21:03 <Jafet> Taneb's idea was worse than I thought
11:21:12 <Jafet> I hope he doesn't make a mod for that
11:21:44 <Jafet> "Hey guys, the new game by Bethesda Softworks, it has quite a few bugs"
11:21:53 <Jafet> I'm not sure what you're getting at
11:22:15 <Vorpal> but sure, it is fun to play
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11:24:33 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway the map screen is an improvement compared to oblivion definitely
11:25:41 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway how can you /not/ think that this font is terrible: http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-05-10-37.png
11:27:00 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh and it generally doesn't look as bad when you play it. After all you are generally moving, that tends to help.
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11:27:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, are you going to play skyrim?
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11:29:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, sure you said it was a bit expensive above, but that doesn't mean you won't play it. After all it was "launched" on torrents before it was launched officially, so it won't really be hard to get hold of.
11:32:11 <fizzie> I might just wait until they release a cheapo version in a few years. Will see.
11:33:45 <fizzie> That's what I did with NWN1 and NWN2.
11:33:48 <Vorpal> http://www.skyrimnexus.com/index.php <-- quite a few mods already. And the official modding SDK has not yet been released even...
11:34:06 <fizzie> Or maybe I got NWN2 with a graphics card, actually.
11:38:41 <fizzie> Bundling games with graphics cards is a funny thing. I got that "G-Police" game with... either the Voodoo2 or some Matrox card.
11:41:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, never even heard of that game
11:41:36 <Vorpal> what sort of game was it?
11:41:37 <fizzie> It's a shooting thing.
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11:41:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, see logs before you pinged out
11:41:57 <fizzie> I didn't play-play it, but it was impressively threedee for 1997.
11:42:19 <fizzie> "The game made use of cutting edge technology such as force–feedback joysticks, 3D sound and Direct3D Hardware Acceleration and was largely well-received. Critics noted that the game's graphics were some of the most technically impressive of the time."
11:42:32 <fizzie> "The gameplay involves piloting VTOL aircraft resembling helicopters, engaging in combat with enemies and protecting allies."
11:42:44 <fizzie> Not really my sort of thing, but it looked impressive.
11:43:07 <fizzie> Okay, away-away; it's this "father's day" thing today at least in Finland.
11:43:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, you are going to your father?
11:43:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, or are you a father?
11:43:43 <fizzie> Free food, basically. :p
11:44:33 <fizzie> We "did" my wife's father yesterday; so free dinners for the whole weekend, even.
11:45:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway those quotes looks strange
11:45:31 <fizzie> Not that sort of "do".
11:45:32 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh right
11:45:43 <Vorpal> without the quotes I would never had noticed the issue
11:46:10 <fizzie> Got a bus to catch. ->
11:46:21 <Vorpal> <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway how can you /not/ think that this font is terrible: http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-05-10-37.png
11:46:58 <Taneb> Speaking of food, breakfast time
11:47:03 <Phantom_Hoover> It's not /terrible/, it's just not curly and serifed enough to fit well with a fantasy setting.
11:47:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, Exactly. It is terrible in the context.
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11:47:33 <Vorpal> it would work fine in other places, sure
11:47:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, eh; it's a bit incongruous, but if you can't see beyond the font...
11:48:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, then I'm an elliott clone?
11:48:35 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, sure, I can play the game. It isn't a game blocking "bug" for me. It just annoys me.
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12:20:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I hope that video is actually either a minecraft mod or a skyrim mod. I don't think so however :(
12:33:44 <Ngevd> Okay, my IRC connection seems fine
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12:44:08 <Ngevd> Is S and K combinatory logic still turing-complete if it's restricted to balanced binary trees?
12:45:22 <Ngevd> I did not actually need to know that at all
12:47:02 <Phantom_Hoover> It might be a bit more complicated than that, since that only lets you add two extra levels, but I think you can pad to an odd number too.
13:01:08 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what were you buying?
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13:19:47 <Ngevd> I might learn Lisp
13:20:11 <Ngevd> Somewhere at the end of my list of languages to learn
13:23:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, so soon you will be able to play all the games from that humble bundle that you complained you couldn't play
13:23:26 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I really recommend trying out Trine. It is fun and it looks good
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13:36:50 <Ngevd> A memory efficient SKI interpreter would try to find all the ``k's and all the `i's before doing ```s's
13:37:12 <Ngevd> ^^^Statement of opinion
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13:50:50 <fungot> Ngevd: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, what was best for the future programme is essential for us to move ahead in the united kingdom divided over a well-known rock in the southern part of europe.
13:50:57 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
13:51:20 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
13:51:23 <fungot> Ngevd: as soon as possible after the next substantial change occurs in the manner specified in the registrar's report. this rule, including the riff-raff; and the
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14:31:26 <HackEgo> 94) <scarf> and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source <scarf> whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain <scarf> it's all falling into place
14:31:30 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: i) the amendment index when the motion. c) auction currency is the registrar shall, as described in other rules,
14:31:42 <fungot> Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
14:32:24 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it looks pretty agorish to me
14:32:26 <fungot> ais523: if such a transfer must additionally document every change made to perform an action, or rule-- or other problem, a gambler holds or has exactly one
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14:48:29 <CakeProphet> ais523: do you know of any languages similar to Eodermdrome?
14:48:42 <CakeProphet> I'm looking for insiration on graph-rewriting languages.
14:49:22 <ais523> CakeProphet: there's one other, which is similar but more complex, based on Kolmogorov machines
14:49:29 <ais523> I forget who wrote it, but it's on the wiki somewhere
14:50:09 <CakeProphet> what I have in mind something more like a CA than a rewriting machine.
14:50:22 <CakeProphet> so instead of specifying rewrite rules in the program you specify the initial shape of the graph
14:50:39 <CakeProphet> and the relationships between states in the graphs cause the graph to change every turn.
15:01:02 <ais523> so it's similar to the other language, except it has fixed rewrite rules and a program is the initial state, rather than having a fixed initial state and a program is the rewrite rules?
15:01:54 <CakeProphet> though I don't know if they'll end up being exactly like rewrite rules.
15:02:34 <CakeProphet> te states are all going to be 0-9, and I was going to have higher numbers take priority over lower numbers perhaps.
15:02:59 <CakeProphet> so 9-rules activate before 8-rules before ...
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15:29:33 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: yes SOON THEY WILL REVOLUTIONARIZE COMPYUTING
15:31:12 <CakeProphet> so yes unlike eodermwekjiwrdrome there can be more than one node with the same state.
15:31:31 <CakeProphet> as how the node will behave can depend on its degree.
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15:56:37 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, eodermwekjiwrdrome?
15:57:33 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, that is Eodermdrome, not eodermwekjiwrdrome...
16:15:41 <olsner> eodermwekjiwrdrome was a better name :(
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16:35:30 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:35:32 <elliott> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Excela&diff=25170&oldid=13100
16:35:37 <elliott> ais523: is this vandalism, or..?
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16:59:48 <Gregor> I don't know if I want to try these CRAAAZY patches.
17:00:22 <elliott> Gregor: You mean Transactional HackEgo? :P
17:00:36 <elliott> You have nooooo idea how much time I spent working out the commit logic.
17:01:35 <elliott> Gregor: I mostly blame BitBucket's diff for not realising that I rewrote tr_60.cmd :P
17:03:28 <Gregor> elliott: THEY'RE PRETTY CRAZY REGARDLESS
17:03:48 <elliott> Gregor: Pfft, lib/server is the only even vaguely crazy part
17:04:26 <elliott> tr_60.cmd is a simple script that forwards messages to a server, lib/{fetch,revert} is just a moving of code, and lib/sandbox is a glorified UMLBox wrapper :P
17:04:41 <elliott> (If 25 lines can be called glorification.)
17:04:47 <elliott> Hmm, is that "a" meant to be there?
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17:10:02 <Gregor> elliott: lib/server needs to already have IRC_SOCK set? >_<
17:10:20 <elliott> Gregor: Well... it could receive the IRC socket location as a first message?
17:10:25 <elliott> Gregor: You could just make a FIFO, man :P
17:10:47 <Gregor> FIFO's had problems, sockets are coolerer.
17:10:51 <Gregor> multibot is what sets IRC_SOCK though.
17:11:32 <elliott> Gregor: Well... you could just make socat start another script rather than the bot directly.
17:11:45 <elliott> That script would do IRC_SOCK=/dev/stdin lib/server & bot
17:11:54 <elliott> I can tweak the server if you'd prefer that though :P
17:12:29 <elliott> Gregor: Okay; how (i.e. how would you like it to get a hold of the IRC socket)
17:13:28 <Gregor> I frankly don't understand WHY it needs the IRC_SOCKET, but if it does, it should be sent with {a,the} command{,s}.
17:13:50 <elliott> Gregor: ...because it sends the output of commands back to the user...?
17:14:01 <Gregor> Oh, server does that now?
17:14:07 <elliott> Yeah, server handles the running
17:14:13 <elliott> Because the alternative is complicated IPC shit in tr_60.cmd
17:14:36 <elliott> I'll send it with the commands, then
17:14:54 <Gregor> Yeah, otherwise you have a problem with when it generates the first v the second.
17:15:11 <Gregor> I really don't want to modify multibot for this too X-P
17:15:18 <elliott> Gregor: I'm guaranteed to always get the same socket for a server run, right, though? i.e. so I can still use a global? :P
17:15:58 <elliott> Gregor: Anyway, I don't see how you can avoid modifying multibot, because SERVER_SOCK... oh, you can just set it at the start of the script and it'll propagate.
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17:17:54 <elliott> Gregor: Updated pull request and pull request's instructions :P
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17:18:24 <Gregor> "NameError: name 'sock' is not defined"
17:18:35 <Gregor> File "multibot_cmds/lib/server", line 144, in <module>
17:18:43 <elliott> Good! That's good! That's a simple bug.
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17:19:14 <Deewiant> (N.B. if you were using Haskell that would never have happened)
17:19:14 <Gregor> (PS: I think we all agreed that I need more bots on here, yes?)
17:19:31 <elliott> Deewiant: I asked Gregor if I could use Haskell
17:19:34 <elliott> He said no, about three times
17:19:37 <elliott> Now he is paying the price
17:19:45 <elliott> Gregor: Pushed (I won't bother updating the pull request until this works :P)
17:19:49 <Gregor> How am I paying any price?
17:19:56 <elliott> Also, you're paying the price... of PAIN.
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17:20:09 <Gregor> Err, don't use ` while HackBotLoony is on I guess X-D
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17:20:41 <Gregor> It's just shared with HackEgo :P
17:20:53 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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17:20:59 <elliott> Gregor: Well, not even help works P:
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17:40:20 <elliott> Deewiant: Simple undefined variable/type error count so far: About 15
17:40:30 <elliott> THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO KNOW
17:41:09 <Deewiant> Okay, I feel like that amount is already saying something about your attention to detail
17:42:43 <elliott> Deewiant: Yeah, only subhumans forget to import a module, or type .read instead of .recv, or append a list to a list of arguments BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT IN PYTHON IT ACTUALLY ENDS UP AS A TUPLE
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18:48:42 <CakeProphet> I notice a distinct lack of language designed with syntax styled after the first chapter of Genesis.
18:49:55 <CakeProphet> And on the seventh line, God said, "let there be a floating point number named x, and let it equal 3.0," and God saw that it was good.
18:51:24 <elliott> Deewiant: If I implement all the fingerprints Mycology tests will you add Shiro to the result ranking? :p
18:52:01 <Vorpal> elliott, hm there is a place in the TES universe called "Elsweyr", I never thought much about it until I heard it voice acted today... Sounded like "elsewhere" XD
18:52:25 <Vorpal> elliott, btw did you check the rest of the screenshots?
18:53:00 <Vorpal> elliott, btw I figured out one reason witcher 2 looks so much better. No first person perspective. You don't get quite as close to the textures that way
18:53:02 <Deewiant> elliott: Mostly it needs a homepage and I need the time and interest :-P
18:53:15 <Vorpal> and also it genuinely have better textures as well
18:53:28 <elliott> Deewiant: Why's it need a homepage :'(
18:53:37 <Deewiant> elliott: So that I can link to it :-P
18:53:44 <Deewiant> elliott: Github or whatever is fine
18:53:45 <elliott> Deewiant: irc://irc.freenode.net/esoteric
18:54:01 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, this is because syntax-based languages are crappy.
18:54:02 <elliott> Anything involving me isn't very perma
18:54:08 <Deewiant> Although in your case it's probably better than it usually would be
18:54:15 <elliott> Deewiant: I only ask because I'm considering starting on Shiro 2 :P
18:54:24 <Vorpal> btw, does *every* RPG these day have some sort of crafting system? Why is that so popular.
18:54:28 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: ah I see, esoteric programming languages are all about high quality.
18:54:37 <elliott> Deewiant: I lost the latest Shiro 1 source and thought of a fairly decent fungespace structure in the meantime
18:55:15 <Deewiant> But anyway, I'd move Shiro 1 out once Shiro 2 comes in
18:55:15 <elliott> Deewiant: (Basically: Make a HashMap for every 128x128 block of fungespace or so, and have a structure data FS = FS {fs::HashMap ...,, left::FS, right::FS, up::FS, down::FS}; keep track of the FS that the IP is currently in)
18:55:32 <elliott> Deewiant: I managed to lose it because my computer broke and then I accidentally trashed my backup
18:55:44 <elliott> Deewiant: And I meant Shiro 2, not Shiro 1
18:56:03 <Deewiant> Well, in any case, it's mostly about me taking the time and effort
18:56:15 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: what if it also had a unique faith-based paradigm.
18:56:19 <elliott> Deewiant: This is why you should be a robot?
18:56:21 <CakeProphet> where you have no proof that the program executes
18:56:57 <Vorpal> sure, there was alchemy and enchanting in oblivion. Now there is also smithing, a skill used for smithing (as expected) but also smelting (yeah okay) and tanning (what, how is that related to smithing?)
18:57:35 <elliott> Vorpal: Did ATHR ever get a real spec
18:57:40 <elliott> I'd like to make sure Shiro 2 could support it
18:57:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, is there also wood burning, lye making, butchery, cooking and soapmaking?
18:58:53 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I believe there is wood cutting, ore mining and some other such stuff. They don't seem to have any skill connected to them that I noticed. Can't say I have done a lot of those tasks though yet
18:58:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and yes there is cooking
19:00:01 <pikhq> Vorpal: Sounds like they took a really, truly insignificant part of D&D and took it seriously. :P
19:00:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, put pickaxe in inventory, find vein of ore, target it and press e. Wait a bit to get some ore out of it, then a message "the vein is exhausted"
19:00:20 <Vorpal> pikhq, what bit of D&D would that be?
19:00:35 <pikhq> Vorpal: The Craft(...) skills, of course.
19:00:37 <elliott> Vorpal: So it's exactly like Minecraft :P
19:00:42 <Vorpal> oh and you can operate saw mills.
19:00:51 <Vorpal> elliott, quite, did you see that link, I think Phantom_Hoover posted it?
19:01:00 <pikhq> And Profession(...)
19:01:25 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, wasn't it you who posted it?
19:01:28 <pikhq> This is really, *insanely* insignificant, and I find it amazing that it's even in D20.
19:01:49 <Vorpal> pikhq, well Skyrim uses it's own system. Not D20 afaik
19:02:40 <elliott> Deewiant: What if I make it beat CCBI on Fungicide :P
19:02:42 <pikhq> Vorpal: Anyways, that shit's stupid.
19:03:00 <Vorpal> pikhq, hm? Not really here. It kind of fits in.
19:03:09 <Vorpal> you can of course improve weapons too
19:03:27 <elliott> Vorpal: C'mooooooon, ATHR draft
19:03:28 <Vorpal> hm I think you uses that for all types of weapons. Let me check....
19:03:39 <Deewiant> elliott: I'd still prefer that it had a URL and I'd still need to take the time :-P
19:03:41 <Vorpal> yes, you can improve maces and bows at a grindstone
19:03:45 <Vorpal> no it doesn't make sense
19:03:50 <elliott> Deewiant: A URL is not a problem :P
19:03:51 <Deewiant> elliott: (Doing Fungicide is a lot worse than just Mycology)
19:04:07 <elliott> Vorpal: You used rafb.net back then, I distinctly recall
19:04:15 <Vorpal> elliott, I don't have it now and it isn't complete afaik. There wasn't really all that much interest in it either
19:04:28 <elliott> Deewiant: Do you have a backup of the ATHR spec, then :P
19:04:35 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm pretty sure it is in the efunge repo. Anyway if it isn't, then I can't get it atm. I'm booted into windows for skyrim
19:04:42 <Vorpal> and it would be on my linux partition
19:05:08 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I'm reserving the right to change it. Just as a warning.
19:05:20 <elliott> Vorpal: No, you cannot have that right, I will sue you
19:05:27 <Vorpal> elliott, because iirc some of the stuff about communication between threads was kind of broken
19:05:32 <Vorpal> as in, didn't work very well
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19:05:39 <elliott> Don't care, just need to figure out how much I need to isolate
19:05:55 <elliott> It's not in the efunge repo
19:05:57 <Vorpal> elliott, ah, well look in the non-trunk branch of efunge on launchpad
19:06:03 <Vorpal> it is definitely not in trunk
19:06:08 <Vorpal> but in the ATHR feature branch
19:06:21 <elliott> launchpad is impossible to navigate
19:06:40 <elliott> https://code.launchpad.net/efunge
19:06:50 <Deewiant> https://code.launchpad.net/~anmaster/efunge/supervisor-tree
19:06:53 <Vorpal> lp:~anmaster/efunge/supervisor-tree
19:06:55 <Deewiant> "This is the feature branch to add ATHR."
19:07:21 <Vorpal> elliott, that name is after the major internal restructuring that was required for it
19:07:47 <elliott> Well, it is not in there, either
19:07:55 <Deewiant> Comment why, not what. (Same applies to this?)
19:08:19 <elliott> Deewiant: Branch names are more like variable names
19:08:27 <elliott> Deewiant: index, not count_for_loop
19:08:34 <Vorpal> elliott, then I will upload it next time I boot to windows, unless it is on my laptop
19:08:41 <elliott> Variable names should definitely by what, not how or why :P
19:09:09 <Deewiant> I dunno, branch names don't seem obviously neither "what" nor "why"
19:09:29 <elliott> Deewiant: Branch names should be "what-goal", I think
19:09:34 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I'm going to rework the "book" thingy probably when I finish implementing it. Because it didn't feel right.
19:09:43 <Vorpal> http://sprunge.us/cHEi
19:09:47 <Deewiant> elliott: That seems like "why"
19:09:49 <Vorpal> elliott, there you have it
19:09:54 <elliott> Deewiant: What would what be, then
19:09:57 <Deewiant> elliott: "goal" is a "why" thing
19:10:05 <Deewiant> elliott: "what" is what it is currently, supervisor-tree
19:10:15 <elliott> Oh, we're violently agreeing on what the branch name should be
19:10:23 <elliott> Just not on the meanings of "what" and "why" :P
19:10:47 <Deewiant> I'm also thinking that it might not be clear-cut in general
19:10:51 <Vorpal> what are you talking about?
19:10:54 <Deewiant> In some cases you might prefer something like the current name
19:11:18 <Deewiant> Vorpal: About why your branch name isn't "athr" or equivalent
19:12:06 <Vorpal> btw, idea for future ubuntu code name: Sinking Sloth
19:12:44 <zzo38> Do they always go in alphabetical order?
19:13:02 <Vorpal> they didn't start that way
19:13:08 <Vorpal> but I think they are doing that now
19:15:57 <fizzie> They went alphabetical pretty fast.
19:16:25 <fizzie> Wonder which Q-animal they will pick; it's the next they need to decide.
19:19:01 <fizzie> 1. quagga, Equus quagga -- (mammal of South Africa that resembled a zebra; extinct since late 19th century)
19:21:08 <Vorpal> the problem with skyrim atm is that no one really knows the answers yet. So if you are truly stuck at something you can't just go look it up.
19:22:03 <Ngevd> I think it's funny how so many Minecraft players are boycotting Skyrim due to the Scrolls lawsuit, when Notch himself has got Skyrim
19:22:34 <Vorpal> Ngevd, they are what... lol
19:22:51 <fizzie> And of course the quetzal, and the quetzalcoatl.
19:23:31 <fizzie> "Quiet Quahog an ode to the sturdy mollusk"
19:23:47 <fizzie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames always has the best suggestions.
19:28:46 <elliott> CakeProphet: It'll already run fsck when it has to.
19:29:37 <CakeProphet> elliott: what about when you skip it? will it try again on next reboot?
19:30:59 <fizzie> From what I recall, it will keep trying if you keep skipping it.
19:31:03 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, why skip it? It takes like 10-15 seconds anyway even on a huge partition with lots of small files, at least for me
19:31:28 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: I am helping someone with their shit
19:32:00 <olsner> hmm, so this episode was about the bold "plan" to retake DS9, but it seems the "plan" is essentially "collect all the ships and fly to DS9 in a straight line"
19:32:43 <fizzie> That's certainly "bold".
19:33:28 <elliott> olsner: You forgot "stop when you reach DS9".
19:34:04 <olsner> not that I'd know better, but seems like a stupid way to do space warfare to take your blob of ships, meet another blob of ships and start shooting
19:36:22 <olsner> elliott: well, in this case "stop when you reach the enemy fleet between you and DS9"
19:37:07 <Phantom_Hoover> It gets particularly silly when they have space blockades which they can't go around for some reason.
19:37:54 <olsner> equally silly, they haven't managed to get rid of the treaty on cloaking devices even though they're in a full-on war against this dominion thing
19:38:38 <olsner> especially since the romulans are supposed to be allies at this time
19:38:53 <Vorpal> hm I should try making a panorama from skyrim later. As far as I can tell there is no parallax.
19:39:23 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, don't knock it, at least they *used* them occasionally.
19:42:53 <fizzie> ISTR that there was one episode of Trek-something where someone (Picard, Kirk?) had an OMG WOW breakthrough idea of avoiding a circular space blockade minefield by (gasp!) going "up"/"down".
19:42:59 <fizzie> Three-dimensional thinking!
19:43:27 <fizzie> I suppose I might've just read about it from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Two-DSpace or something.
19:43:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Also once in DS9 the Klingons put mines around Bajor, since they apparently have like a billion mines lying around.
19:45:02 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:45:29 <fizzie> ""His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
19:45:30 <fizzie> — Spock, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" -- apparently so.
19:45:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Genetically engineered supermen are notoriously incapable of grasping the concept of height.
19:47:12 <oerjan> except those which cannot grasp left-right, instead.
19:49:00 <Phantom_Hoover> I can probably weave this into yet another complicated Bashir silliness, but I can't be bothered.
19:51:05 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: they didn't have a million mines, so they built self-replicating mines
19:52:00 <olsner> (which was apparently an original idea in the 24th century)
19:54:25 <olsner> I think I still haven't seen any starship meet an upside-down starship (except when it's a dead one - then they flip over)
19:55:02 <olsner> maybe there's a protocol to decide which way is up when two starships meet, and the losing ship flips to make it less confusing
19:55:32 <fizzie> olsner: "Another reason "Genesis" is considered a particularly bad episode (in addition to the Evolutionary Levels crap) is the fact that, when the Captain's shuttle returns, they can tell something's wrong...because the Enterprise isn't straight on."
19:55:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Or maybe they all do it so Bashir doesn't get confused?
19:55:41 <elliott> "Well, try to imagine that on a 3-D interface (in fact, play Frontier: Elite 2 and think yourself lucky if you survive your first "dogfight")."
19:55:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Ha ha ha it should have been two-dimensional.
19:56:45 <oerjan> <olsner> [...] (except when it's a dead one - then they flip over) <-- so basically space is an ocean and spaceships are goldfish.
19:57:06 <oerjan> (the first being, of course, a trope.)
19:57:11 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: yeah, maybe it's a holdback from before they banished all the genetically engineered people
19:58:29 <zzo38> Do you ever use (x <$ guard y) or (guard y >> x) in Haskell?
19:59:43 <zzo38> They are useful with the Maybe monad, and the second one useful with the list monad too.
20:01:08 <zzo38> Can you ask some mathematicians what the MonadPlus laws should be?
20:03:29 <elliott> zzo38 needs a mathematician
20:04:38 <zzo38> In my opinion it should be the left zero law and monoid laws, but maybe a mathematician will know better
20:05:16 -!- Sgeo|chromcrash has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
20:05:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
20:06:13 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
20:07:28 <fizzie> $ ./testlm-disk.pl ../twungot/tokens.bin.irc ../twungot/model.bin.irc 3 mathematicians do it with
20:07:28 <fizzie> mathematicians do it with tail calls in some situations. :o
20:07:28 <fizzie> mathematicians do it with types, give you the vector of interrupt handlers. error code UNK (UNK (close connection))
20:07:28 <fizzie> mathematicians do it with sed :) cool! println works fine?! i posted the interface docs the other day. did it wrong.
20:12:57 <oerjan> <Ngevd> A memory efficient SKI interpreter would try to find all the ``k's and all the `i's before doing ```s's <-- also find applications of ``sii and cache them. that way you can get efficient y combinators. (i think. i thought of this in the context of lazy-k.)
20:13:31 <oerjan> elliott: i assumed he meant a _relevant_ mathematician.
20:14:17 <fizzie> oerjan: All mathematicians are interchangeable.
20:14:29 <fizzie> I think the technical term is "isomorphic".
20:14:37 <fungot> Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts)
20:14:42 <fungot> elliott: of all, the first one was a complete the binding the crocodile's jaws are tied us up and left us here! we're the last! it is!
20:15:26 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
20:15:39 <oerjan> ah. for the good of mankind.
20:15:49 <SgeoN1> Well, I no longer have to think about why REISUB wasn't working
20:17:54 <ais523> SgeoN1: were you using Windows?
20:18:07 <ais523> that's a reasonably obvious explanation for REISUB not working
20:18:16 <oerjan> <olsner> eodermwekjiwrdrome was a better name :( <-- no it's not
20:18:38 <ais523> is that one also nonplanar as a graph?
20:18:54 <SgeoN1> I was using Linux. Was being the operative word.
20:19:06 <oerjan> well i'd assume it's not a _complete_ graph
20:19:13 <ais523> you probably need to enable magic SysRq
20:19:47 <SgeoN1> If I could even touch SysRq right now, I'd be much happier than I am
20:20:19 <Ngevd> You probably need to enable magic
20:20:21 <SgeoN1> I dropped my computer, and the USB stick I was running off of broke
20:20:46 <Ngevd> That's why you run Linux of SD cards!
20:22:44 <SgeoN1> Is that something that could actually be done?
20:23:11 <Ngevd> It's probably not as fast as a USB stick
20:23:50 <Ngevd> I tried to run Haiku of one, too, but it wouldn't boot
20:24:03 <SgeoN1> How much HD space would I need to reasonably use MonoDevelop?
20:28:47 <elliott> SgeoN1: STOP DROPPING YOUR FUCKING COMPUTER
20:29:39 <Ngevd> Also, STOP FUCKING YOUR COMPUTER DROPPINGS
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20:31:45 <zzo38> I got kerning to work with typesetSimpleString in Graphics.DVI but I am having a bit of problem to try to figure out ligaturing
20:32:24 <zzo38> (I know they are correct; I have compared them with results from TeX)
20:32:51 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
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20:42:28 <oerjan> i've heard those announcements for a long time. it may not be the same kitty. maybe this is a descendant of the original one.
20:42:50 <oerjan> which is now a huge scary thing.
20:48:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
20:51:57 <nys> hello greasemonkey
20:57:04 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
20:57:31 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
20:57:35 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
20:58:03 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1...
20:58:24 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1...
20:58:50 <GreaseMonkey> and this is where i show that i don't know shit about the haskell standard library
20:59:12 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
20:59:12 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
20:59:17 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
20:59:33 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
20:59:46 <GreaseMonkey> and i forget what fold (foldl / foldr ?) is for
20:59:55 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
21:00:00 <pikhq_> Any further questions?
21:00:01 <Ngevd> > zipWith (*) [1..] [1..]
21:00:02 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:00:29 <pikhq_> > join.zipWith(*)$[1..]
21:00:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> a' against inferred type `[a]'
21:00:47 <pikhq_> > join (zipWith(*)) [1..]
21:00:48 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:00:58 <lambdabot> [1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,51,5...
21:01:04 <pikhq_> > zipWith(*) `join` [1..] -- That's nice.
21:01:05 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:01:37 <Ngevd> > [x^2|x <- [1..]]
21:01:38 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:01:39 <GreaseMonkey> what's the one which cuts a list off after a certain point?
21:02:23 <lambdabot> [[1],[1,3],[1,3,5],[1,3,5,7],[1,3,5,7,9],[1,3,5,7,9,11],[1,3,5,7,9,11,13],[...
21:02:32 <pikhq_> And takeWhile is like that, but it cuts a list off based on a function a->Bool
21:02:40 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `e_10131' at <in...
21:02:58 <pikhq_> > takeWhile (!=10) [1..] -- for instance
21:03:04 <pikhq_> > takeWhile (/=10) [1..] -- for instance
21:03:12 <GreaseMonkey> > map (\x -> foldr (+) (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
21:03:13 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `e_1131' at <int...
21:03:38 <GreaseMonkey> > map (\x -> foldd1' (+) (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
21:03:43 <GreaseMonkey> > map (\x -> foldl1' (+) (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
21:03:44 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:04:04 <Ngevd> map (\x -> sum (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
21:04:11 <Ngevd> > map (\x -> sum (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
21:04:12 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:04:13 <lambdabot> [0,1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,...
21:04:21 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:04:42 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `..'
21:04:56 <Ngevd> So we know have about a dozen ways to make an infinite list of squares in Haskell
21:05:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:05:14 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:05:18 <GreaseMonkey> i must say it is a lovely language when you're not getting bombarded with type errors
21:06:13 <elliott> GreaseMonkey: I prefer dynamically typed languages, where the type errors result in silent breakage when you least expect it.
21:06:44 <GreaseMonkey> i prefer my statically typed languages to be explicitly typed
21:06:55 <lambdabot> [1.0,3.0,6.0,10.0,15.0,21.0,28.0,36.0,45.0,55.0,66.0,78.0,91.0,105.0,120.0,...
21:06:58 <zzo38> You should learn a few things about category theory, too.
21:07:04 <elliott> GreaseMonkey: You mean you... prefer having to write out a type signature for every value?
21:07:21 <lambdabot> [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
21:07:22 <GreaseMonkey> yeah, at least you know damn well what thing it is
21:07:38 <zzo38> When I write Haskell program, I do write a type signature for every top level declaraion
21:07:40 <elliott> GreaseMonkey: That's why there's a strong Haskell convention to put a type signature on every top-level value
21:07:46 <elliott> Having to specify one for every single subexpression would be insane
21:08:02 <zzo38> And sometimes for subexpressions too
21:08:09 <zzo38> But not all subexpressions
21:08:15 <Ngevd> > map (\x -> x * (x+1) `div` 2) [1..]
21:08:16 <lambdabot> [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
21:08:41 <fizzie> > ((2 :: Int) + (2 :: Int)) :: Int
21:08:42 <lambdabot> [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
21:08:44 <Ngevd> expr :: Int -> Int -> [Int]
21:08:59 <elliott> GreaseMonkey: Num isn't a type
21:09:17 <oerjan> > inits [1,3..] -- <GreaseMonkey> > map (`take` [1,3..]) [1..]
21:09:18 <lambdabot> [[],[1],[1,3],[1,3,5],[1,3,5,7],[1,3,5,7,9],[1,3,5,7,9,11],[1,3,5,7,9,11,13...
21:09:19 <elliott> addtwo :: Int -> Int -> Int
21:09:22 <elliott> addtwo :: Integer -> Integer -> Integer
21:09:26 <elliott> addtwo :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a
21:09:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:09:37 <elliott> <elliott> addtwo :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a
21:10:17 <Ngevd> singletonList :: a -> [a]
21:10:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
21:10:30 <lambdabot> against inferred type `[a1] -> [...
21:10:33 <zzo38> You have "return" and "pure" already make a singleton list
21:10:41 <Ngevd> > sum $ inits [1,3..]
21:10:41 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[[a]]'
21:10:42 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `e_113' at <inte...
21:10:45 <lambdabot> [0,1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,...
21:10:55 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
21:10:55 <lambdabot> against inferred type `[a1] -> [...
21:11:01 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:11:15 <GreaseMonkey> actually that's more of a LISP thing to have bracketitis
21:11:29 <Ngevd> > map sum $ tail $ inits [1,3..]
21:11:30 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:11:30 <lambdabot> [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
21:11:39 <GreaseMonkey> i DO like how KWrite's scheme highlighter highlights the parentheses in rainbow colours though
21:11:40 <lambdabot> [1,5,12,22,35,51,70,92,117,145,176,210,247,287,330,376,425,477,532,590,651,...
21:12:45 <GreaseMonkey> i take it scanl1 is essentially based on fold?
21:12:48 <Ngevd> > length "scanl1 (+) [1,3..]"
21:13:02 <lambdabot> Prelude scanl1 :: (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> [a]
21:13:02 <lambdabot> Data.List scanl1 :: (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> [a]
21:13:02 <lambdabot> Data.ByteString.Char8 scanl1 :: (Char -> Char -> Char) -> ByteString -> ByteString
21:13:04 <Ngevd> > length "map (^2) [1..]"
21:13:10 <Ngevd> That one's shorter
21:13:11 <copumpkin> GreaseMonkey: folds and scans are related, but I wouldn't say one is based on the other
21:13:28 <copumpkin> GreaseMonkey: a scan basically tells you the accumulator of the fold at every step
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21:13:45 <copumpkin> GreaseMonkey: as such, a fold is the last element of the list the scan produces
21:13:48 <GreaseMonkey> so conceptually based, but not based on by implementation?
21:14:59 <oerjan> GreaseMonkey: it was listed above
21:15:01 <GreaseMonkey> (except of course there's the case of scanl f l [] = [l])
21:16:44 <oerjan> putting the q : outside both cases makes it lazier, i think.
21:17:06 <oerjan> > take 1 $ scanl undefined "boo!" undefined
21:18:08 -!- Zuu has joined.
21:31:29 <Ngevd> Well, I've drawn another PixelQuest update
21:31:34 <Ngevd> Uploading as we speak
21:31:45 <Ngevd> No, Phantom_Hoover, it isn't your's yet
21:32:07 <Ngevd> But you're fifth in the queue!
21:32:35 <zzo38> Why do the air vents in the Batman show have a sign that says "AIR VENT"? And a lot of other things are labeled too
21:32:59 <Ngevd> Same reason as why one of the pixels in PixelQuest is a pirate. It's funny.
21:33:30 <Ngevd> Okay, Chrome just crashed
21:33:38 <Ngevd> Now Firefox takes the helm
21:36:47 <zzo38> How many MML compilers do you know of?
21:38:12 <zzo38> I know of SakuraMML which seem very good, however, it is Japanese only and I always get error message about ConvToHalfStep1 so it never works
21:39:34 <zzo38> However, it is also Windows only. But it is written in Pascal and there could be Pascal compiler for other computer it could work
21:39:54 <zzo38> But I don't need to worry about that right now since I currently have Windows.
21:40:43 <Ngevd> PQ update is online
21:42:13 <Ngevd> Did you pay for a priority ticket?
21:42:19 <Ngevd> Actually, that's a good idea
21:42:23 <zzo38> What reason do you think for the priority?
21:42:33 <Ngevd> Maybe if PQ becomes my primary occupation
21:44:55 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:44:59 <Ngevd> MS Paint Adventures Fan Adventure
21:45:06 <coppro> Multi-Step Partially Advancing Finite Automaton?
21:45:18 <elliott> no it's Multi-Step Partially Advancing Finite Automaton
21:45:21 <elliott> you got it right first time
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21:51:28 <zzo38> Which programs do you use for typeface design?
21:52:03 <Vorpal> I don't design typefaces
21:53:49 <Vorpal> elliott, iirc you said 3.4 GHz was overkill? Well I'm now waiting for a single threaded computation intensive calculation to complete
21:54:16 <zzo38> I know of a few programs; there is FontForge, and a few others, but METAFONT is best one.
21:54:52 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm doing exposure optimisation with hugin on screenshots I took in skyrim. It seems skyrim uses HDR effects, light levels differ quite a bit depending on if the sun is in the view or not
21:54:56 <Vorpal> so this might not work out
21:55:14 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, nah, dd + cat and maybe od
21:55:16 <elliott> Man, by "3.4 GHz is a waste of money and power", I totally meant "a 3.4 GHz i7 is never faster than 2.9 GHz i7"!
21:55:26 <zzo38> What is the command in emacs for typeface designing?
21:55:31 <Vorpal> elliott, why would that be?
21:55:36 <elliott> Absolutely. You are interpreting me correctly.
21:55:52 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I didn't claim you meant that
21:56:05 <Vorpal> elliott, but anything that makes this computation faster is a good thing...
21:56:13 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: the above is syntactically correct elliott.
21:56:54 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, a "syntactically correct elliott", okaaay....
21:57:09 <CakeProphet> 16:55 < elliott> Absolutely. You are interpreting me correctly.
21:57:13 <elliott> Vorpal: There was no "a" in CakeProphet's statement.
21:57:43 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: perhaps you don't understand the syntax of CakeProphet.
21:57:51 <Vorpal> elliott, indeed, but it was funnier that way
21:57:59 <Vorpal> I am somewhat confused about what he meant thoughg
21:58:36 <CakeProphet> SHEESH AND NOW IT'S TOTALLY UNFUNNY BECAUSE I HAVE TO EXPLAININ ET AAAAAH
21:59:32 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah the HDR effects are destroying the pano. If I get time and happen to be in that location when it is cloudy, I will try again
22:00:57 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover, you are now 4th in the queue
22:01:00 -!- l96 has joined.
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22:01:50 <Ngevd> Having his Pixel embark on a Quest
22:02:18 <Ngevd> His command for PixelQuest being used
22:02:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Cracked... has confused backslashes with forward slashes.
22:02:38 <Vorpal> Ngevd, pixelquest being?
22:03:02 <Ngevd> I literally have said this not ten minutes ago
22:03:02 <Vorpal> Ngevd, can you expand that abbreviation?
22:03:21 <Ngevd> Microsoft Paint Adventures Fanatic Adventure
22:03:43 <Vorpal> Ngevd, correct you did literally not say it within the last 10 minutes.
22:04:15 -!- Zuu has joined.
22:04:15 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
22:04:15 -!- Zuu has joined.
22:04:20 <monqy> more like 20 minutes ago
22:04:50 <Ngevd> At least I'm able to be misunderstood to be honest
22:08:28 <zzo38> What does Canada, Japan, Switzerland have in common?
22:08:45 <Ngevd> zzo38, they're all islands?
22:08:45 <elliott> zzo38: They're all US states.
22:09:04 <Ngevd> Japan's not an island
22:09:11 <monqy> zzo38: they're all frends
22:09:16 <elliott> Ngevd: Nor is Switzerland or Canada :P
22:09:17 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, what do I clip the ground lead on an anti-static wristband onto?
22:09:18 <oerjan> switzerland is an anti-island.
22:09:33 <Ngevd> They are all famous for their military
22:09:35 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: an earthing stud
22:09:42 <ais523> you can get ones that plug into the mains earth supply
22:09:46 <ais523> that's what I do with mine
22:09:51 <zzo38> No. I am thinking of a different answer.
22:09:57 <ais523> (it's basically just a connection to the mains earth pin through a highish-valued resistor
22:10:31 <zzo38> It isn't military. It isn't location. It isn't language. Try again.
22:10:32 <ais523> if someone answered "an earthed metal part of whatever you're working on", that answer is also correct, although arguably not as good
22:10:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Isn't that one equivalent to "a grounded socket"?
22:10:49 <oerjan> their flags are all white and red.
22:10:59 <elliott> The case would qualify, I think.
22:11:00 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: a metal part of it that is intended to be connected to earth
22:11:02 <ais523> like the case of a computer
22:11:19 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, they're all in the set {Switzerland, Japan, Canada}.
22:11:29 <oerjan> zzo38: denmark belongs in that set too.
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22:12:11 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, no it doesn't? Don't you even know set theory?
22:12:27 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: the set of countries with red and white flags.
22:12:43 <olsner> Denmark is not in the set {Switzerland, Japan, Canada}
22:12:44 <zzo38> oerjan: I didn't know. I just knew because once I was in a group and we had to draw flags in school, we assign three flag at random and I noticed that I only need the red and white pencil
22:12:58 <ais523> zzo38: wasn't the paper white?
22:13:03 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: you clip it to the inside of the case
22:13:06 <zzo38> ais523: I don't remember.
22:13:11 <Phantom_Hoover> (I'm absurdly paranoid about blowing out the CPU by accident.)
22:13:11 <ais523> this sort of thing is why people practically use separate earthing studs
22:13:38 <ais523> (also, if you've built up a very large charge, a properly designed earthing stud will prevent you shocking /yourself/ when discharging it, which touching the case won't do)
22:13:52 <zzo38> I think it was a large poster paper
22:14:08 <ais523> for something like a computer, it's in practice enough just to touch metal surfaces everywhere you walk
22:14:17 <zzo38> I do not remember much else about it.
22:14:20 <ais523> I have a habit of doing that nowadays after spending four years as an electronic engineer
22:14:34 <elliott> I note that "earthing stud" returns no relevant google shopping results :P
22:14:42 <ais523> also, the maximum charge you can sustain depends on the weather (particularly humidity); on a rainy day there's unlikely to be much of a problem
22:15:45 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, but clipping it to the case would be perfectly adequate for normal purposes?
22:16:09 <ais523> assuming the case is properly earthed, but I don't see why it wouldn't be
22:16:42 <ais523> the basic idea is that an unplugged computer has a floating potential, so if you earth it at your own potential, then you can't shock any part of it
22:16:48 <ais523> as the voltages everywhere are measured relative to yourself
22:17:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, as long as the case is grounded I presume?
22:17:32 <Vorpal> well, ais523 made a good point there
22:17:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, so the problem is the CPU equalises charge with you, and then has a voltage relative to the *motherboard*?
22:18:12 <ais523> it's not likely to stay for more than a fraction of a second, but a fraction of a second is enough to blow it out
22:18:19 <Vorpal> ais523, what do you do with plastic computer cases
22:18:27 <Vorpal> they are quite common in laptops especially
22:18:36 <ais523> Vorpal: there's still likely to be an earth connection somewhere; although, I just earth to mains to avoid all these problems
22:18:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, I thought the problem was discharges between you and the CPU.
22:18:54 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: well, the problem is that some of the pins of the CPU are at one voltage and some are at another voltage
22:19:04 <ais523> so the voltage discharges through the CPU for a moment, and that gives it an overvoltage
22:19:09 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, still unclear on how one earths the case without plugging it in, though.
22:19:18 <Vorpal> ais523, yes I generally just earthed myself to the mains when working in a computer. Worked fine so far. I guess I touched enough of the case to make it earth itself to me as well...
22:19:26 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's not a case of actually earthing it; rather, it's a case of setting its voltage relative to yours
22:19:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You should just attach the other end of the strap to the inside of the wall socket.
22:19:41 <ais523> by using its earth connection
22:20:12 <ais523> elliott: that's basically how a mains earthing stud works, except it's designed to make utterly sure it connects to the right pin, and there's a resistor in there to prevent you discharging too quickly and shocking yourself
22:20:19 <Vorpal> elliott, that is fairly easy in Sweden, we have earth clips on the side of the socket.
22:20:24 <elliott> Yeah, it's just like that except not being stupid :P
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22:20:55 <ais523> Vorpal: in the UK, the socket has an earth socket where the earth pin goes, and unless there's a pin in it, the live and neutral sockets are covered by plastic
22:21:00 <ais523> and the earth pin is longer on the plugs
22:21:11 <Vorpal> ais523, we have earth clips on the side. Not earth pins at all
22:21:26 <ais523> it makes it very hard to touch the live or neutral by mistake, even if you're going around poking wires in there (which is nonetheless not advised)
22:21:32 <Vorpal> ais523, this type of connector: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
22:21:48 <ais523> btw, the neutral can easily have enough of a voltage difference from earth to shock you, although it's rarely as much as the live has
22:22:12 <ais523> depends on how much current's being used in each of the three phases of live
22:22:31 <Vorpal> anyway my earthing system I use when working inside a computer is designed to be earthed to the ground clip.
22:22:35 <ais523> (they use multiple phases so that they cancel out for the neutral, and so they only need massive wires to carry the live, the neutral can be carried with a reasonably simple one)
22:23:29 <Vorpal> ais523, afaik you don't get three phase connections in the wall sockets unless it is for like washing machine or oven or such
22:23:33 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, so wait, the correct order would be to attach {motherboard, PSU}, attach the two, ground self on PSU, plug in CPU?
22:23:44 <ais523> Vorpal: you get one of the three phases in the wall sockets
22:24:05 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: oh, you're plugging in a motherboard from scratch?
22:24:08 <Vorpal> ais523, do they use different phases in different parts of the house or the same phase in a given house?
22:24:20 <ais523> in that case, you should ground yourself both on the PSU, and on the antistatic foam that the CPU comes in (while it's still in the foam)
22:24:30 <ais523> to equalise them to each other before you try to plug the CPU in
22:24:37 <Vorpal> ais523, if the former there could be some issues with audio equipment connected to different wall sockets I imagine
22:24:45 <Vorpal> probably other stuff too
22:24:46 <ais523> Vorpal: the former happens on occasion, the latter is more common
22:25:02 <Vorpal> ais523, the former actually seems rather stupid
22:25:02 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, so motherboard, PSU, ground on PSU and foam, plug in CPU?
22:25:02 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's hard not to do by accident, the antistatic foam is designed so that you're probably going to touch it before you touch the CPU
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22:25:17 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that's about right
22:25:31 <ais523> and try not to touch the pins unless you have to; what causes the problem is different pins getting different voltages
22:25:33 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, attaching motherboard to PSU before grounding?
22:25:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover is literally made out of static.
22:25:43 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: ground before you attach anything
22:25:45 <ais523> each component individually
22:25:52 <ais523> the motherboard has chips on too
22:26:11 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, OK, but attach motherboard to PSU and ground on PSU before foam and CPU?
22:26:13 <ais523> and ground yourself before you touch any pins of anything; they'll probably be quite near to earth potential, so you should be too
22:26:15 <Vorpal> <ais523> and try not to touch the pins unless you have to; what causes the problem is different pins getting different voltages <-- why would you have to? There are other reasons than static to avoid touching the pins as well
22:26:22 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover is literally made out of static.
22:26:25 <ais523> I advise that you start off by touching part of your house's water supply system
22:26:32 <ais523> the copper on a radiator, a metal tap, something like that
22:26:42 <Vorpal> ais523, I'm not sure that a bit of human skin fats on a high speed data transfer pin of a CPU is a good idea at all :P
22:26:43 <elliott> ais523: OK now I'm imagining Phantom_Hoover just walking around the house touching things.
22:26:44 <ais523> those are typically all connected to mains earth to make it easier to route around a house
22:26:48 <ais523> elliott: I actually /do/ that
22:27:08 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523 is fully prepared in case the electrons invade.
22:27:13 <elliott> He touches a rubber ducky in the bath and is seen. "It's for safety," he says. His spotter leaves, and he touches the rubber ducky a few more times. It isn't for safety, he just likes rubber duckies.
22:27:13 <ais523> Vorpal: well, OK, but typical sockets are designed to work around the problem
22:27:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: comment on accuracy of my fanfiction.
22:27:39 <ais523> I've cut my finger on IC sockets a few times, though
22:27:39 <Vorpal> ais523, I tend to do that as well during winter, due to the dry air the charge tends to build up otherwise. And then you get a strong chock rather than a small one when you touch something grounded anyway
22:27:44 <ais523> not sure if I've ever done it on the chip itself
22:27:45 <CakeProphet> or if you have not already joiced, you may joice now.
22:27:56 <ais523> Vorpal: right, it's a valuable life skill
22:28:04 <ais523> getting randomly shocked is annoying
22:28:14 <ais523> elliott: I've burnt myself a couple of times with a soldering iron too
22:28:18 <ais523> it's painful but heals quickly
22:28:28 <elliott> ais523: Soldering irons scare me intensely.
22:28:48 <Vorpal> ais523, also I don't know what is up with my electrical piano. It builds up a potential compared to the computer case when connected to the computer using USB, but not when connected using a classical midi cable
22:28:51 <ais523> elliott: have you seen a solder gun? I haven't, but they're like soldering irons except they heat up and cool down really quickly
22:28:59 <ais523> so if you're mad, you can solder something with one, then turn it off and put it in your pocket
22:29:11 <Vorpal> ais523, and the piano isn't grounded for some reason. It uses an europlug
22:29:19 <elliott> ais523: So it's a soldering iron except it doesn't warn you that it's hot? AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
22:29:26 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: AIEEEEEEEEEE
22:29:28 <ais523> Vorpal: hmm, I suspect the classical midi cable has separate chassis ground and signal ground; I'm not sure if USB does
22:29:34 <ais523> perhaps that could be it
22:29:34 <Phantom_Hoover> The physics teacher promised us a cake day if none of us burned ourselves.
22:29:44 <Phantom_Hoover> We did not get that cake day. Nor did any other classes, ever.
22:29:49 <Vorpal> ais523, I'm pretty sure classical midi cables are specced to use optoinsulators
22:29:52 <Vorpal> ais523, so yeah I guess so
22:29:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I want cake day.......
22:30:02 <Phantom_Hoover> (I never burned myself, also I was the soldering master.)
22:30:09 <ais523> (the leading theory behind the magic/more magic switch in the hacker story is that the switch connected chassis and signal ground together, btw, which could quite possibly knock a computer offline)
22:30:36 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: but you don't use soldering irons in chemistry class, typically
22:30:53 <Ngevd> We were going to have a Cake Day in Further Maths weekly, but we got bored of it after three weeks
22:31:22 <ais523> Ngevd: I'd be impressed if someone managed a soldering iron burn during Further Maths class
22:31:34 <elliott> ais523: What if you baked a cake with a soldering iron.
22:31:37 <Phantom_Hoover> The maths class have weekly cake days too, but I'm banned from the entire maths department for not unrelated reasons.
22:31:40 <ais523> oh right, Ngevd is British because he's from Hexham
22:31:46 <elliott> ais523: Also you have to solder the numbers together.
22:31:49 <elliott> That's why it's further maths.
22:31:55 <ais523> elliott: quite difficult to do, and it'd have to be a new soldering iron not to have solder on the tip
22:32:15 <Ngevd> Isn't solder poisonous?
22:32:17 <ais523> if the tip of a soldering iron becomes desoldered, it actually makes it pretty hard to solder with, you have to cover it with solder to get it soldering again
22:32:25 <ais523> Ngevd: yes, heavy metal poisoning
22:32:26 <elliott> Ngevd: Poisonous and DELICIOUS.
22:32:41 <Phantom_Hoover> (I got kicked out of maths because I was bored and did nothing of any use to anyone, and then swooped into the class next cake day and made off with some cake.)
22:32:42 <ais523> although the new RoHS stuff, which contains no lead, isn't so bad, it's still inadvisable to eat it
22:33:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: They /banned you/ for that?
22:33:17 <ais523> elliott: freeloading and eating cake?
22:33:23 <ais523> that seems like a bannable offense
22:33:23 <elliott> ais523: The two most human things!
22:33:34 <Ngevd> Kids, don't eat solder. It makes you look stupid.
22:33:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's not stealing if it's cake.
22:34:15 <Phantom_Hoover> But anyway, I'm ~not part of the maths department~ now, i.e. they don't like me very much.
22:34:21 <Ngevd> We haven't had a cake day in Latin for a while.
22:34:35 <Ngevd> There are 6 of us, includin the teacher
22:34:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Ngevd, I got kicked out of my old school the year before we started having Latin cake days.
22:34:51 <Ngevd> The cake I generally bring is enough for 16
22:35:00 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover, :'(
22:35:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: This is because you killed someone with a spoon and then stole some cake.
22:35:47 <Ngevd> elliott, you cloned yourself and your clone kicked someone in the face.
22:35:58 <Ngevd> You're not one to talk
22:36:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Like I said, I was doing nothing of any use to anyone.
22:37:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I wasn't that bothered, frankly; I got to muck around in the library instead.
22:37:34 <ais523> <Ngevd> elliott, you cloned yourself and your clone kicked someone in the face. <--- now I have a huge urge to get ais523_ to log on and kick you
22:37:49 <ais523> but I'm not at work, and it'd take a while to get there to get ais523_ online
22:47:46 <Ngevd> My ancient history class has two people called Theo
22:47:58 <Ngevd> But none called Telemachus
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22:48:31 <Ngevd> If I ever have a son, I'll call him Telemachus, or Mac for short
22:49:23 <Vorpal> ais523, you could connect twice from the same computer
22:49:45 <ais523> Vorpal: but then it wouldn't be ais523_
22:49:48 <ais523> it'd just be me using the wrong nick
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22:55:08 <Vorpal> well I'm actually managing to make something out of this skyrim panorama I think
22:55:14 <Vorpal> I worked around the HDR issue mostly
22:57:29 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Ngevd, I got kicked out of my old school the year before we started having Latin cake days. <-- so what is "cake day" in latin?
22:57:46 <Ngevd> Dammit, I know this...
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23:00:31 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to PlacentaProphet.
23:00:56 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
23:01:45 <ais523> PlacentaProphet: heh, I was wondering who'd assume that that was targeted at them
23:01:52 <Ngevd> English has come a long way from Latin
23:01:57 <Ngevd> Maybe in the wrong direction
23:03:20 <Ngevd> PlacentaProphet, is the fully English language version of you a prophet that is a cake, one who prophesizes about cake, or something else
23:03:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:03:30 <elliott> ais523: You should totally debug my Python code!!!
23:03:40 <elliott> Wait no PlacentaProphet you do it.
23:03:54 <oerjan> Ngevd: it's someone who prophesizes about a cake that makes you think you are a cake. i assume.
23:04:33 <Ngevd> In which case you want placentarumPropheta
23:05:02 <Ngevd> YES BUT IT IS ALSO INCORRECT LATIN
23:05:09 <Ngevd> TWO LATIN LOAN WORDS
23:05:31 <PlacentaProphet> yes in much the same way that "lo siento" is incorrect English.
23:06:11 <Ngevd> BUT IT IS ONE LETTER OFF CORRECT LATIN
23:06:44 <oerjan> "It translates as flat cake. It isn't cake like you think of birthday cake today. A better translation would be flat bread."
23:07:06 <Ngevd> Like stottie cake?
23:07:07 <oerjan> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100906064119AAICqB3
23:07:41 <Ngevd> I like stottie cake
23:07:47 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: FIX MY C;ODEK
23:08:39 <elliott> https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/raw/d135b69e88f1/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd
23:08:40 <elliott> https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/raw/d135b69e88f1/multibot_cmds/lib/server
23:09:08 <elliott> Sometimes the server gets messages that look like [] or ['#channel'] for no obvious reason
23:09:16 <elliott> Despite the fact that no other messages are cut off or whatever
23:10:55 <elliott> ais523: The server server (i.e. lib/server) :P
23:13:29 <ais523> perhaps I should send that to other random servers for a while
23:13:54 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
23:14:10 <oerjan> ais523 is seeing people who aren't here.
23:14:21 <ais523> oerjan: no, I just decided that if I did it randomly for a while
23:14:27 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: Yes, that is indeed the part that receives shit :P
23:14:35 <ais523> then when I did it to people who have been here for ages and I just didn't notice, nobody would notice /me/ doing it
23:15:02 <Ngevd> Maybe set up Hackego to do a welcome every half-hour?
23:15:38 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: when does this "sometimes" happen? seemingly at random?
23:15:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:15:58 <elliott> Yes, usually after some other commands go through (typically when it's two at once but not always)
23:16:45 <Vorpal> elliott, skyrim panorama (huge image, might want to open in, say, gimp rather than the browser depending on how much ram you have and which browser): http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/near-solitude.jpg (yes I'm aware of the hole, I fucked up the overlap a bit yes)
23:17:15 <elliott> Opened in Chrome without a freakin' hitch
23:17:28 <elliott> The white bits on the water are really badly-artefacted. :/
23:17:45 <Vorpal> elliott, I think they are specular highlight
23:17:56 <Vorpal> elliott, and in the rock. I filled it with black
23:18:06 <elliott> And damn, that foliage needs more smoothing :P
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23:19:03 <Vorpal> elliott, blame a bit on the perspective. After all some pixels get dragged out over several due to the panorama
23:19:10 <Vorpal> elliott, especially near the edges
23:19:32 <elliott> I've thought that about a lot of Skyrim screenshots I've seen tbh :P
23:19:41 <Vorpal> well there is some of that too
23:19:45 <elliott> monqy: Have you fixed my Python code???
23:19:59 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: I have no idea but it sounds like weird networking stuff. try passing the socket.MSG_WAITALL flag? no clue.
23:20:18 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: MSG_WAITALL only applies to stream sockets.
23:20:18 <Vorpal> elliott, you should check out witcher 2 screenshots
23:20:44 <Vorpal> elliott, I will try to find some time to make some next week. Then there will be awesomeness. Can't do panorama, always third person view so...
23:20:56 <monqy> elliott: no i have python code of my own to nightmare about
23:21:09 <monqy> except it's not my own i have to share it
23:21:09 <Vorpal> elliott, and thankfully unlike minecraft, skyrim has no parallax. That makes panoramas much easier
23:21:09 <elliott> Vorpal: You could panorama and just have a big fuzzy mass of nonsense in the middle
23:21:15 <elliott> Or, well, not in the middle, all around
23:21:21 <elliott> I'm sure you can hack it to make the player invisible though :P
23:21:26 <Vorpal> elliott, err, you would get parallax
23:21:35 <Vorpal> elliott, because the camera rotates around a point outside of it
23:22:00 <monqy> ooh a new list of ideas entry
23:22:03 <elliott> Vorpal: BTW, http://deadendthrills.com/ have been doing a bunch of Skyrim posts and they look unreasonably good.
23:22:14 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway there is a lot of details that won't be visible in static screenshots. Like how plants move in the wind
23:22:23 <elliott> (Note to everybody: Do not click unless you want to feel inadequate about your hardware, whatever hardware you have :P)
23:22:37 <Vorpal> elliott, in oblivion that looked really faked. It looks kind of okay in Skyrim. It looks utterly awesome in Witcher 2
23:22:50 <ais523> elliott: does that apply even to me? my hardware's typically so bad that seeing better hardware doesn't make me feel inadequate about it
23:23:02 <Vorpal> elliott, what is that site about?
23:23:16 <elliott> ais523: You might want to downgrade to a sock to be safe
23:23:28 <elliott> Vorpal: It's, like, video game photography.
23:24:06 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway, I can play Skyrim on ultra. I can play Witcher 2 on ultra except for the supersampling option. I don't see how I could feel inadequate about my hardware here.
23:24:12 <elliott> The guy mods up the games to hell and back again to get the best graphics he possibly can, runs them at 2160p, and use time-stopping shit and debug consoles to pose a screenshot :P
23:24:19 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: if it continues running does it receive the rest of an IRC line later?
23:24:56 <elliott> Some of them look ridiculously good: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6058/6233836408_00ef719628_b.jpg, http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6185/6147515320_689b9546f9_b.jpg
23:24:58 <Vorpal> elliott, there are already some HD Skyrim mods. And the official modding tools are not yet released.
23:25:05 <elliott> Aw, those hotlinks don't work. :/
23:25:12 <Vorpal> elliott, are both rage?
23:25:15 <Vorpal> elliott, and they work for me
23:25:33 <Vorpal> elliott, I know one of them is Rage
23:25:36 <elliott> One of them is Rage and the other one is Hard Reset, which apparently everyone has praised for having good graphics while being terrible in all other aspects :P
23:25:50 <Vorpal> elliott, Rage has *badly* uneven graphics quality
23:25:51 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: It doesn't receive IRC lines, but no, like I said, it never receives the rest of a message, no message is ever cut off, etc.
23:26:06 <Vorpal> it might be state of the art for one object, but right out of NWN1 for another
23:26:19 <elliott> Vorpal: Apparently he basically has to avoid textured surfaces like the plague :p
23:26:42 <Vorpal> elliott, well, pretty much all surfaces are textured in modern games
23:26:54 <Vorpal> elliott, but I guess he avoids them up close
23:26:59 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: is it datagram weirdness? why are you using a datagram socket?
23:27:02 <elliott> Vorpal: That's what I meant.
23:27:06 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: Because I don't want a stream socket?
23:27:21 <elliott> There are multiple processes writing to it, etc.
23:27:28 <PlacentaProphet> what are you talking about, everybody loves stream sockets.
23:27:30 <Vorpal> elliott, and I wasn't aiming for making it look good. Rather I was aiming for a representative view of it
23:27:46 <elliott> Heh, http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6110/6335388665_efa3b91f92_b.jpg shows the water artefacts too
23:28:06 <Vorpal> elliott, though some stuff are more noticable in a still image. I mean, a lot of stuff moves, so you don't really see the white stuff like that
23:28:40 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I didn't notice those artifacts in game
23:28:40 <elliott> Deewiant: Do you have a link handy to that massive list of all graphics cards in order of approximate goodness
23:30:08 <Vorpal> elliott, quoting from that site: "Why wouldn’t you assume that a game scarcely bigger than an Xbox 1 DVD would look like ass? Here’s one reason. The new Elder Scrolls might not be a Witcher 2 when it comes to texture resolution (yet), but it’s definitely a Morrowind in its art direction. Unfortunately, it’s also an Oblivion when it comes to making a first impression."
23:31:10 <Vorpal> "Tools and tricks: twofold increase in landscape cell loading distance, large address aware patch to TESV executable, free camera, no-HUD, 2160p rendering, timecycle adjustment, custom FOV." <-- will have to try those out
23:31:21 <Vorpal> free camera is useless for playing
23:31:29 <elliott> Free camera, no-HUD, and 2160p rendering are DEFINITELY super useful to you.
23:31:42 <Vorpal> no by landscape cell loading distance might be
23:31:58 <elliott> Msot of the Skyrim screenshots only seem to be on http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncanjharris/sets/72157628114774012/detail/, btw
23:32:00 <Vorpal> I just hope it doesn't do what oblivion did when you changed that outside the range available in the GUI config
23:32:04 <oerjan> `addquote <elliott> ais523: You might want to downgrade to a sock to be safe
23:32:05 <Vorpal> which was to fuck up badly
23:32:06 <HackEgo> 716) <elliott> ais523: You might want to downgrade to a sock to be safe
23:33:41 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: do AF_UNIX datagram sockets not require listening and accepting stuff? I doubt that's a problem since you're actually receiving data.
23:33:58 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: You're not meant to listen from them.
23:33:59 <ais523> elliott: improvement typo!
23:34:04 <ais523> I will call it an "improvemeny"
23:34:20 <elliott> ais523: That's a terrible name.
23:34:21 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: I've never used sockets in this manner, is why I ask.
23:34:24 <Ngevd> I wonder if Aeneas ever met Odysseus while they were both lost in the Mediterreanean....
23:34:32 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: And that is why I answered.
23:35:21 <PlacentaProphet> so yeah uh... I have no idea. it appears to be happening in code completely unrelated to this source.
23:35:27 <PlacentaProphet> so maybe you should check out the programs you're talking to?
23:35:52 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: I linked the single program that talks to it.
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23:40:13 <Vorpal> elliott, according to http://deadendthrills.com/faq/ his system isn't that much better than mine at all. I think the GPU might be slightly better. And I have a newer generation CPU I think, though iirc with less cache.
23:40:40 <Vorpal> elliott, I certainly have more RAM. He has a larger SSD
23:40:51 <Vorpal> I have way larger HDDs
23:40:53 <elliott> I believe the GTX 580 is the highest-end non-SLI card Nvidia do
23:41:03 <Vorpal> elliott, ther eis GTX 590 too
23:41:15 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: it seems to me that there's no seperator between multiple sends. is that okay?
23:41:19 <elliott> RAM isn't really that relevant above a certain point, and storage space is completely irrelevant :P
23:41:22 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: That's why it's a datagram socket
23:41:23 <Vorpal> elliott, but yes, he has a somewhat better GPU. Still not that much of a different
23:41:48 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway he isn't doing real time rendering when taking this screenshots. 40 FPS at the time would be just fine
23:42:00 <elliott> Vorpal: There is no way he gets 40 FPS.
23:42:05 <elliott> "That bit’s important, though, because it means I run their hardware at temperatures that could fry an egg."
23:42:14 <elliott> Vorpal: I'm like 99% sure overclocking is probably involved.
23:42:19 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't matter when taking those screenshots
23:42:48 <elliott> GTX 590 is one of those two-GPU things.
23:42:53 <elliott> So it doesn't really count.
23:43:04 <Vorpal> elliott, I heard of someone with two GTX 590 in SLI
23:43:16 <Vorpal> something like that anyway
23:43:19 <elliott> I don't think you can do that
23:43:24 <elliott> I thought CrossFire was the only one that let you do >2 gpus
23:43:43 <Vorpal> elliott, maybe you can when they are on the same card? I don't know.
23:45:52 <Ngevd> I'm dissapointed that it is not possible to do GCSE or A-Level Finnish
23:46:44 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: try using sendall instead of send. I doubt it matters though.
23:46:59 <Ngevd> Nor the Scottish equivalents thereof
23:47:13 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: That would result in multiple send()s being used.
23:47:17 <elliott> Which would break the server.
23:47:34 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: And like I said, /no message gets cut off at any point/.
23:47:38 <elliott> So all the data is always being sent.
23:47:53 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: I thought datagram sockets were inherently unreliable?
23:48:09 <elliott> It's a fucking Unix socket!
23:48:23 <elliott> Unless Gregor is secretly fucking up the bits, there is no reason for this to be happening.
23:48:39 <elliott> No messages ever fail to send, but occasionally a phantom message with just one or none of the fields in the wrong order appears for no apparent reason.
23:49:01 <Ngevd> Can you identify and ignore them?
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23:49:18 <Vorpal> "A lot of folk asking the about my Rage config, so here it is. Bear in mind, though, that I’m running the game at 2160p (at 60fps, Carmack, you beast) and using 64x multisampling on the screenshots, then downsampling x2."
23:49:24 <elliott> Ngevd: I... would rather figure out why they are happening.
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23:49:59 <augur> lemme ask you a very important question
23:50:01 <augur> very very important
23:50:21 <augur> if i showed you 4 squares and a rectangle, and they all looked like the same color
23:50:28 <augur> point to the one with the different color
23:50:36 <augur> would you be inclined to point to the rectangle
23:50:46 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: well yes based on the code I'm inclined to agree that there's no reason for that to be happening.
23:50:47 <monqy> be inclined to punch you
23:50:55 <pikhq> Be inclined to flip you off, really.
23:51:05 <augur> some dipshit on reddit says that people would point to the rectangle
23:51:08 <elliott> moral of the story "nobody likes having science done to them"
23:51:12 <augur> because its visibly different
23:51:18 <Ngevd> I'd point to the PAGE THEY ARE PRINTED ON
23:51:22 <monqy> flip off with one hand, punch with the other
23:51:27 <elliott> augur: tbh i might do it as a kneejerk thing but it's such a contrived scenario
23:51:29 <pikhq> augur: I suppose if you gave them a second or less?
23:51:45 <augur> if you were asked for the different _color_?
23:52:05 <monqy> words are confusing
23:52:15 <pikhq> augur: "Different->oh that's different->wait, you said 'color'? fuck you"
23:52:33 <elliott> augur: the question is whether we have an intuitive sense of colour really...
23:52:39 <elliott> as in, differing from things just looking different
23:52:50 <augur> elliott: well, yes obviously you would do this with people who know what color is :P
23:53:01 <elliott> augur: but i mean like what with the "name the colours of these words that are names of other colours" thing
23:53:09 <elliott> i dunno if we're so good at colours :P
23:53:21 <augur> elliott: oh yes but thats a very different task
23:53:24 <Ngevd> Colours come from language
23:53:32 <augur> all that shows is interference between description and reading
23:53:35 <augur> people are more inclined to read
23:53:50 <augur> just because the linguistic aspect is so dominant, while color description is not
23:53:58 <augur> but people can still describe colors
23:54:01 <augur> its not like they cant
23:54:12 <elliott> i cant describe colours what is purple??
23:54:14 <augur> and if you give someone as long as they want to answer, they're not going to pick the fuck rectangle
23:54:18 <augur> elliott: its purple!
23:54:35 <elliott> THAT'S A WORD NOT A DESCRIPTION
23:54:44 <elliott> Also how do you distinguish a fuck rectangle from a regular rectangle.
23:54:57 <augur> elliott: by whether or not a dick is on it
23:55:19 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: is there any more relevant code? for example, the code that's passing shit to the sending code?
23:55:38 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: that's called `an irc server'
23:55:48 <elliott> multibot ain't broken because see HackEgo here
23:55:58 <augur> elliott: dicktangle
23:56:11 <elliott> PlacentaProphet: But like I said, the channel comes in as the /first/ list element
23:56:15 <elliott> Which never, ever happens with that sending code
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23:56:41 <PlacentaProphet> elliott: so like, you printed what the sender sends, and then printed what the receiver receives
23:56:57 <elliott> I haven't traced the sender yet because it's literally impossible for it to be breaking but fiiiiiiine.