< 1320105680 668921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan ooejiowerjina < 1320105708 102681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1320105708 298205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1320105710 595157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i fi < 1320105710 853336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320105740 482184 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do you understand the analysis in the paper? < 1320105755 497645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was analysis? :D < 1320105870 704458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Django is neat and all, but not when you have a day to make a whole website. :P "Django: The Web framework for perfectionists with deadlines" indeed. < 1320105884 800098 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the stuff about how the determiner sharing comes about < 1320105894 802941 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the facts but the gapping-as-ellipsis account < 1320105921 346935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i am bad at reading :( < 1320105930 635094 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1320105949 151424 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subsection 2.1 < 1320105977 912458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has no MonadReader instance. < 1320105980 772110 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ooooh, sick burn) < 1320106065 864121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually that solution i thought i had just lead to an infinite regress :( < 1320106074 629071 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which solution < 1320106087 517411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not related to your thing < 1320106107 76623 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320106111 495059 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :model-view-controller is actually not as terrible as I thought it would be.. < 1320106114 675893 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite regress shows up in natural language you know :D < 1320106197 432160 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Why would separating the parts of your program sanely be terrible? < 1320106205 163580 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if you are using a degenerate language.) < 1320106225 59755 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that I'm saying you are, just that there are those that do.) < 1320106231 88776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mvc is awful because controllers are necessarily degenerate < 1320106240 564372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or things go into the controller which should be in the view (vastly most common case) < 1320106250 707330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I thought the specific model might be constraining. < 1320106254 548505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because decoupling controllers from views never really works out at all < 1320106257 941585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically mvc is stupid < 1320106282 288960 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as far as I can tell Django doesn't separate controller from view at all. Maybe I'm just a noob though and haven't got to that part though. :P < 1320106284 857198 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or just applicable to fewer problems than it's applied to. Like a hellton of things in the programming world. < 1320106289 953705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes it does < 1320106291 930397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :view = template < 1320106294 707129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :controller = view < 1320106298 848073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1320106300 856409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :django calls things different because it's stupid < 1320106304 239268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes perfect sense. :P < 1320106337 540970 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It is constraining, that's what gives it any shred of decency. < 1320106339 168368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: damn! your unjustified assertion has totally beaten my attempted explanation to the ground < 1320106363 648737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the model part is spot-on. < 1320106386 49206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't go wrong there. (cue elliott.. :P ) < 1320106391 997651 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you have an application that's naturally divisible into data, presentation, and control components, then MVC is a good idea. Otherwise, probably not. < 1320106406 918527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's probably the best you can do within the constraintrs of model < 1320106414 70168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: wait -- wait -- back up here < 1320106419 416723 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, it has to be all databasey < 1320106424 242527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a problem to which MVC is suited < 1320106428 275759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVC is suited to it??? < 1320106450 13669 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you feel like missing the point entirely, yes. < 1320106452 624109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT! I remember when I contradicted this, instead of saying something more reasonable like "MVC is awful" because nothing actually maps to it in practice. < 1320106453 623249 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses MVC for brainfuck interpreters. < 1320106473 670264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you have an application that's naturally divisible into data [model], presentation [view], and control [controller] components, then MVC is a good idea." < 1320106480 644495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you have an application that's naturally divisible into model, view, and controller components, then MVC is a good idea." < 1320106484 950192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you have an application that's naturally divisible into model, view, and controller components, then model-view-controller is a good idea." < 1320106495 697416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If your application = model + view + controller, then model-view-controller is a good idea." < 1320106548 284470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey what I'm working on fits that pretty well! < 1320106549 568039 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll assume you're just repeating yourself to make sure you can parse the obvious thing I said without understanding or caring what I meant. < 1320106566 458670 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's just covering his bases. < 1320106588 616781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying my reduction of that sentence was incorrect, because you definitely made a few typos if so < 1320106626 560841 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you speak which language natively? < 1320106641 299062 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just saying that, as far as I can tell, there are plenty of developers who aren't so good at following the advice of "if X is applicable, use X; otherwise don't". < 1320106659 138422 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer MVC where MVC = Master Vizier Count < 1320106672 90629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: CakeProphet is from Svalbard. < 1320106673 121303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it employs a rigid code of operation based on feudal tradition < 1320106687 348354 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so swedish or whatever < 1320106703 370859 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How many Master Vizier should use in program? \(O_o)/ < 1320106719 167920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're three different things < 1320106724 68631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :master is different from vizier. < 1320106729 139506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes total sense. < 1320106751 188364 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to think you meant the number of viziers who are masterful. < 1320106760 717256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how augur believes me < 1320106767 772524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :viziers totally have nothing to do with mastery of things. < 1320106778 718510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :viziers are sycophantic scum. < 1320106818 822486 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't a clever vizier hold the helm of the kingdom by advising the king? Assuming a clever person can get himself appointed vizier. < 1320106823 970203 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not! < 1320106838 339529 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming vizierhood is by appointment. < 1320106846 361700 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a lot of assumptions today. < 1320106848 476056 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's a valid trope, yes. < 1320106864 242585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only works sometimes. < 1320106873 380157 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, now I know how to write a book that will work sometimes. < 1320106874 826818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use the parlance of our times, viziers are pussy bitches. < 1320106943 829799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god deadlines, someone shoot me. < 1320106994 397220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi write my parser thanks < 1320107004 691461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi write my website thanks < 1320107068 86256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always happy to help with procrastination < 1320107072 337562 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Parsers are easy to write. Especially in Haskell (as I recently learned) of which you are so fond. < 1320107101 750145 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: try writing a parser for transformational grammars! < 1320107115 574518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Sure, if your grammar is trivial! < 1320107116 636793 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, elliott, i still prefer agda to coq < 1320107133 6381 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: challenge: write a Perl parser in Parsec < 1320107142 822433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're two different things, it's just that Coq is the better orange. < 1320107150 583086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but using Counts only works if your hierarchy has no cycles! < 1320107155 708290 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Challenge: write a Perl parser. < 1320107173 524294 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget you may need to interpret perl code in order to parse perl code. < 1320107179 110581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perl parser is trivial in parsec < 1320107180 402421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yacc < 1320107181 739263 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hint: it's not strictly possible.) < 1320107182 708374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also everything < 1320107185 306483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1320107203 349407 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like reimplementing perl, thank you very much. < 1320107210 588354 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want to parse Perl, I'll use perl. < 1320107215 129060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i don't feel like it -> it's not possible" < 1320107220 17737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has a c api, anyway < 1320107222 478396 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1320107222 645514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has, you know, eval < 1320107244 911730 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was under the impression that the perl parser had to be handwritten. < 1320107248 292440 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't feel like it, and I'll never feel like it, and nothing else makes me do it, it's not possible for me to do it. < 1320107263 238535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrright < 1320107264 145881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or at least, couldn't be written with yacc, I mean. < 1320107266 591315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: doesn't it use yacc with a bunch of hacks or something < 1320107272 735380 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1320107276 765142 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so. < 1320107280 860812 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly the last part. < 1320107281 618712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: which is why you told CakeProphet it wasn't possibl < 1320107281 964181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1320107295 434282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not strictly yacc < 1320107297 357080 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Damn skippy. < 1320107306 104729 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in a deterministic universe, exactly one thing is possible. and it sucks ass. < 1320107315 294027 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the way it parses depends silly hacks, yes. < 1320107326 606465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+on < 1320107392 453948 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So what's this oh-so-complex parser of yours for? Must I logread? < 1320107420 809480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't logread < 1320107423 554857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me. < 1320107452 132383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have IMPORTANT THINGS to do. < 1320107457 147789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that do not involve the reading of logs. < 1320107464 689647 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: acting cool < 1320107484 980171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :smoking hookah. getting rowdy with friends. sleeping. chatting on IRC. < 1320107508 98524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320107515 729738 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could be you for like one day < 1320107526 618510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's awesome. probably because I'm so cool. < 1320107531 849626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a cool pose. < 1320107542 629218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, when did CakeProphet turn into oklopol? < 1320107591 214627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think my car actually bears some semblance of functionality now. < 1320107591 758317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1320107602 851935 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get on with procrastinating as usual. < 1320107614 634979 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320107622 91750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what about your cdr? < 1320107631 188426 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA. HA. HAHAHA. HA. HA. HA. < 1320107658 552048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cdr is still using the old stateful object-oriented system. < 1320107667 130193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320107686 494884 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All I find is you complaining that you may have to write a parser. :/ < 1320107688 319931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, well I guess we are even on the puns < 1320107688 734479 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck ass and have stupid opinions and i cry at night because my ability to see the future by looking at delicious things has long gone, and the only thing left is my tiny penis < 1320107707 777570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Looks like you didn't read enough logs then! < 1320107713 698106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Hi. < 1320107728 500436 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's a strange variant of model-view-controller. But not feudal I think it's e-democratic. The Master Vizier Count model isn't very well-known. < 1320107729 9289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait hasn't centrinia been here before. < 1320107730 860031 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott, what's up? < 1320107732 82189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's assume no. < 1320107733 45769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320107733 818635 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Alright, alright, I'll go deeper, yeesh. But if I don't emerge soon, you'd better not cut my rope. < 1320107735 71361 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320107735 602170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: believe so. < 1320107744 766534 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been here once. < 1320107761 171456 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: why did you leave? why did you come back? who are you? < 1320107762 489119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: What kind of idiot would repeat the experience? Weren't we bad enough?! < 1320107773 726044 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :( you put pain in my heart. < 1320107777 934355 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh elliott you so sillies. < 1320107779 25747 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not paying attention the first time. < 1320107795 401988 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i know exactly where your buttons are. < 1320107833 653042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: I'm going to have to demand my money back; you've been here twice. < 1320107852 819705 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives elliott $0.02 < 1320107857 221111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1320107861 859757 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares longingly at a pastry, waiting for that old spark. < 1320107867 384591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2009-08-01 and 2011-10-07.) < 1320107878 630053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god he's making me cry as well < 1320107892 802254 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just horrible < 1320107907 995189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it uses lemon slices and metal rods? < 1320107936 455434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well since I adopted Master Vizier Count I've been using the soothsaying plugin < 1320107946 777037 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I believe examines the entrails of various domesticated mammals. < 1320107967 684123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that one went over my head. < 1320107976 398481 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... a strange thing < 1320107978 364217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people used to do. < 1320107980 357233 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the day. < 1320107990 278192 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I tied it in with Django weirdly. I wouldn't worry too much about it. < 1320107997 307689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320108001 514289 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns from logreading with no news to report. < 1320108064 305731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: You didn't read enough logs. < 1320108094 557422 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see the part where me and elliott spammed for hours and hours < 1320108106 122745 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen < 1320108108 520054 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the parts. < 1320108132 4455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWWWWW YEAH FRUITS LOOPS THE TURING COMPLETE CEREAL FUCKING DELICIOUS YES. < 1320108133 681957 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean no. < 1320108152 668457 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think our last session was like a year ago < 1320108189 89467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, is my turing completeness detection hampered by me not smoking hookah... < 1320108225 730696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep < 1320108229 202744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not acting cool enough. < 1320108232 644106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is important. < 1320108241 585236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see the turing completeness in everyday, cool life. < 1320108246 166330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: were you proud when that guy wrote a program in :()^ :') < 1320108248 399813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. no hope for me, then. < 1320108306 536265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i felt strangely empty < 1320108311 694908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :( < 1320108345 842808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is merely the sign of the blossoming forest within. < 1320108352 182822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sagenods. < 1320108391 88626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you guys I lost an entire bowl of Fruit Loops < 1320108392 430397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue < 1320108393 961356 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is. < 1320108408 756919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you accidentally smoked it < 1320108533 998360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps my brain is subconsciously trying to further delay work on this Django stuff. < 1320108849 328646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Voxatron is based on a virtual 128x128x64 display. It's a buffer of 3d video memory that is rendered out to the screen at the end of each frame, much as an old-school 2d display is. You can POKE bytes into the virtual memory, and they come out as voxels. I don't compromise on this -- even the menus are drawn into the voxel display. Hopefully one day I can get hold of a real physical 128x128x64 display and play Voxatron on it with almost n < 1320108849 455983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o modification." < 1320108861 857513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's even software-rendered < 1320109233 845958 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320109405 785894 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like fun. < 1320109645 217733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=53606 yay < 1320109676 926599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better extract the 64-bit version from the .deb, sigh < 1320109813 363138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that one's 32-bit too :) < 1320109855 842951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how did you get voxatron working on 64-bit < 1320110054 649570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ./vox-run iirc < 1320110058 478630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from the tar.gz < 1320110065 132246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, so you already have the 32-bit libs < 1320110066 34555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I had the required 32-bit libs I guess? < 1320110073 756061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, multilib repo < 1320110079 802969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aur package works but doesn't depend on the 32-bit versions of the libs < 1320110086 581861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks < 1320110086 715939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use the multilib repo < 1320110088 86838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not aur < 1320110089 651165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this < 1320110105 461475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I very much doubt there is a voxatron package in the multilib repo. < 1320110115 287501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I meant for the libs < 1320110133 468144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just rebooted desktop to windows, so not going to check which ones were required, try ldd? < 1320110135 820453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm saying that the voxatron package is fucked because it just depends on libgl and sdl but declares arch=('i686' 'x86_64'). < 1320110147 159775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah I did it manually < 1320110152 936319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and leave a comment about it < 1320110155 813330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1320110163 612507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it'll be fixed, since it was just added an hour ago and there have already been fixes. < 1320110165 398475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, just wait and play it by hand until then < 1320110182 614061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just wait < 1320110216 919865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reiterates what he said about not doing anything outside the package manager any more. < 1320110244 327785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about your own code? < 1320110261 655930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't run that :-) < 1320110268 646846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1320110278 686191 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320110370 170627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how one convinces people to set up mirrors. Also, build bots. < 1320110376 633050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try... murder. < 1320110403 222643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :money. promises of fame. a brilliant idea. < 1320110416 281760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Murder's cheaper. < 1320110445 369640 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :blackmail. sexual favors. threats of violence (possibly including murder). drugs. free advertising. < 1320110459 990725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf windows, it doesn't detect my PS/2 keyboard properly unless it is after a warm reboot from any OS. < 1320110460 839104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why threaten when you can do? < 1320110472 878726 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck getting dead people to mirror for you. < 1320110484 549879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could murder their family. < 1320110492 853556 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's acceptable. < 1320110504 821471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not much motivation to mirror your stuff. < 1320110509 608362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need a threat < 1320110511 323868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to coerce them. < 1320110521 502688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just kill their family and expect them to start doing things. < 1320110523 953500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no reason. < 1320110535 50014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll probably just grieve or do something equally human-like. < 1320110541 118699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could kill half their family and threaten to kill the rest? < 1320110548 74108 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good < 1320110557 240325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it demonstrates that you're not to be trifled with. < 1320110562 382386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while also providing coercion. < 1320110617 173898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the horse heads < 1320110624 549429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway if you have an awesome project I think you could probably find a university that will provide a mirror. < 1320110635 415531 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no clue how that works. < 1320110640 974476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's quite that easy. < 1320110657 982170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build bots are probably more useful, anyway. < 1320110660 384224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel.org mirrors several distros, including arch, debian and so on < 1320110670 384910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt they accept new distros :P < 1320110696 48287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well they accepted ubuntu some time ago. I guess they only accept sufficiently large ones though < 1320110714 488931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu is from 2004. < 1320110717 747796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch 2003, I think. < 1320110718 102710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1320110721 310116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in 2004 it was new < 1320110734 902892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And in 2005 it was the biggest. < 1320110743 183067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm did it go that fast? < 1320110753 30283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least by 2006. < 1320110757 704427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1320110813 873156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :owning a limited liability probably helps with stuff like that. < 1320110827 442839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1320110835 54083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canonical Ltd. < 1320110836 849380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch linux is community driven iirc < 1320110852 26721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how would that help with kernel.org mirroring < 1320110853 7181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, money does indeed begat services. < 1320110854 171514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought we were talking about Ubuntu. < 1320110857 868966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1320110859 863110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, as well < 1320110895 670840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, Ubuntu benefitted from having a literally infinitely rich, tech-savvy, people-person for a manager :P < 1320110932 752868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will fall the day he dies. Maybe not right away. But it will go quickly downhill then. < 1320110942 586875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt it < 1320110950 257386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT he doesn't do that much any more < 1320110956 660234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc Canonical makes a loss? < 1320110970 552209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320110987 162196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a Guardian interview in May 2008, Mark Shuttleworth said that the Canonical business model was service provision and explained that Canonical was not yet close to profitability. Canonical also claimed it will wait for the business to turn into a profitable one within another 3 to 5 years. He regarded Canonical as positioning itself as demand for services related to Free Software rose.[19] This strategy has been compared to Red Hat's business s < 1320110987 270878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trategies in the 1990s.[20] However, in an early 2009 New York Times article, Shuttleworth said that Canonical's revenue was "creeping" towards $30 million, the company's break-even point.[21]" < 1320111069 322823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320111072 791167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320111093 814560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out Nix's dependency story < 1320111100 852714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1320111108 116772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought you said nix was bad ;P < 1320111110 467555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't know what it is from what I know :) < 1320111114 725409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, but I can steal ideas from it. < 1320111146 72463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Unix only offer like three atomic operations < 1320111168 711443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename, unlink, creat... is there anything else? < 1320111169 906187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... this game crashes unless at least 5 minutes passed since starting windows and another XNA based game ran before it in the current session. This behaviour is reproducible < 1320111171 825637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1320111176 682547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very strange < 1320111179 158919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320111197 306116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rcrowley.org/2010/01/06/things-unix-can-do-atomically.html < 1320111199 742745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1320111241 182800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link(2), symlink(2), rename(2), open(2), open(2), mkdir(2), fcntl(2), mmap(2), msync(2), and some virtual memory crap < 1320111255 313699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bullshit is that < 1320111305 899759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lament < 1320111310 729324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I really really want a transactional filesystem < 1320111328 693895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where a process can make a "begin" call on a directory, have that directory's contents freeze in a consistent state < 1320111329 948922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make modifications < 1320111334 366346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and commit or rollback it < 1320111339 502848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be super-cool < 1320111469 252749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps this could be included in an orthogonally persistent filesystem? < 1320111500 246092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it's like somebody said something that makes no sense but my IRC client refused to show me it and instead punched me. < 1320111527 93322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1320111565 393703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what doesn't make sense.. < 1320111576 278758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he was probably just quoting mezzacotta < 1320111586 395693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the business speak guy < 1320111795 778836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does "make this stuff atomic" syscalls not make sense in orthogonal persistence? < 1320111823 43155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"orthogonally persistent filesystem" < 1320111835 576589 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it's not really a filesystem < 1320111928 908849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if you're doing any kind of reference-passing across threads you'll have to deal with thread safety. < 1320111929 974844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Anyway, in the presence of orthogonal persistence, one can simply overlay mechanisms like STM to achieve the desired concurrency properties. < 1320111957 586160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orthogonal persistence is in a sense much lower-level than a filesystem; it's /better/ and far more flexible, but it fundamentally does far less. < 1320111969 50190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's as atomic as memory itself is. < 1320111980 780273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, I suppose there's no CAS instruction for hard disks.) < 1320111987 199159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: not very atomic :P < 1320112006 803815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Are you saying nobody achieves atomicity on top of memory? < 1320112013 294874 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1320112021 302046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to "memory itself" as in the lowest level. < 1320112028 898361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever system works for software also works for the disk in orthogonal persistence, that's all I'm sayin'. < 1320112049 325786 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the only thing the syscalls would do is create a system-wide standard. < 1320112055 103227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess isn't necessary. < 1320112095 253793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "syscalls" would have nothing to do with orthogonal persistence, they'd just be implementing STM. STM, of course, requires knowledge of the language's object model to work well. < 1320112109 184501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway syscalls are unnecessary in an orthogonally-persisted system, but that's irrelevant. < 1320112134 1440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose if you keep a "traditional" security model they're necessary. But that requires additional work if you're ~doing things orthogonally~. < 1320112202 985838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying this kind of system secures itself via explicit reference passing? < 1320112266 729987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's an awkward way of saying object-capability, then yes. < 1320112269 568463 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you need some kind of intermediary? < 1320112301 505592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay. < 1320112312 897288 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to explicitly specify which operations can be performed. < 1320112317 928958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh... < 1320112326 28662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you figure this one out yourself. < 1320112331 111206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the thing youre passing the reference to. < 1320112368 61462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh gross, the parts of Nix that aren't in C++ are in Perl. < 1320112380 791999 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewwww < 1320112383 821606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be all perl. < 1320112389 76893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++? really? < 1320112402 689570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : die "who ARE you? go away" unless defined $userName; < 1320112406 363556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rude. < 1320112437 675230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guests who come unaccounced are rude. < 1320112440 878477 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must die. < 1320112452 366155 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320112466 419667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More MVC? < 1320112486 713060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no;;; < 1320112489 766456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's better than Perl: They're written in... autoconf perl? < 1320112492 104745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://nixos.org/repos/nix/nix/trunk/scripts/nix-channel.in < 1320112519 542443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The latter command will upgrade each installed package for which there is a “newer” version (as determined by comparing the version numbers)." < 1320112528 437429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heyyy, this manual told me Nix doesn't care about the actual versions. < 1320112531 165927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was LIED to. < 1320113096 47239 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm what are some neat things I can do with the free SMS gateway my carrier provides? < 1320113153 472541 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it really easy to compromise my system if my phone ever gets stolen? :P < 1320114452 235287 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus, I have... 30 tabs of Django documentation open. < 1320114494 802423 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :28 actually. < 1320114511 301306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perfect number. < 1320114526 155558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know. < 1320114605 550438 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is good practice though. < 1320114612 133865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of Django jobs out there. < 1320114627 993453 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't really mind Python all that much so I won't hate them. :P < 1320114928 263746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320115300 327212 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want elastic tabstops implemented in more editors so I can quit using fixed-width typefaces. :( < 1320115317 418817 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also better Unicode syntax support in programming languages. < 1320115353 642187 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnicodeSyntax is nice in Haskell, but it doesn't cover everything, and input methods aren't what they ought to be. < 1320115412 707707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-167.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1320115415 49657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320115436 508033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targets (16): lib32-glibc-2.14.1-1 lib32-libpciaccess-0.12.1-2 < 1320115436 863440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib32-libdrm-2.4.26-1 lib32-libxdmcp-1.1.0-1 < 1320115436 935819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib32-libxau-1.0.6-2 lib32-libxcb-1.7-2 lib32-libx11-1.4.4-1 < 1320115436 935990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib32-libxext-1.2.0-1 lib32-libxxf86vm-1.1.1-1 < 1320115436 936098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib32-libxfixes-4.0.5-3 lib32-libxdamage-1.1.3-3 < 1320115437 59892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib32-expat-2.0.1-7 lib32-libglapi-7.11-4 lib32-libgl-7.11-4 < 1320115439 68314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib32-libxrender-0.9.6-4 lib32-sdl-1.2.14-8 < 1320115441 833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1320115479 638563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a programming language I can program with my brain. < 1320115491 987507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :direct brain-to-program interface. < 1320115546 372479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this foolish character-based crap. < 1320115613 712942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :libliblib < 1320115678 758498 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that lib32-libliblib or lib64-libliblib? < 1320115682 621976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could program it directly from your brain with sex thoughts. hm, what would be a good name ... < 1320115685 35250 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, is no one else bothered by the use of -> and => instead of proper arrow characters, or <= instead of a "less than or equal to" sign, or straight quotes instead of curved quotes? < 1320115711 613262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: given the limitations of my keyboard, no. < 1320115717 395302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am bothered by the limitations of my keyboard. < 1320115737 429922 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux I use a compose key, and extend my compose map liberally, but it's not really enough. < 1320115766 424065 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should be able to beautifully typeset our source code like mathematics and prose. < 1320115791 590270 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quit designing languages that are so backward-compatible they can be typed on a typewriter from 1960. < 1320115811 550280 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait until time-travel < 1320115825 331094 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we have to worry about forward-compatability < 1320115839 139680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll never be able to solve that < 1320115849 300328 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we have time travel, I think we'll cope (have be will copen?) somehow. < 1320115881 422224 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL probably would've been a huge success if only it hadn't limited itself to being backwards-compatible with '60s typewriters < 1320115895 992136 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har. < 1320115920 402317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will has did "have be will copen" mean? < 1320115941 716332 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, these ASCII approximations don't bother anyone else? < 1320115953 164562 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- nah < 1320115964 464228 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: What bothers me is that I have a mere 104 keys. < 1320115979 13873 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *demand* a Japanese typewriter. < 1320115979 588703 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1320116007 60194 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka "movable type") < 1320116027 451155 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the main thing holding us back is our input methods...and yet no one will use a language that requires editor support, because no one will write an editor for it because no one will use it! < 1320116057 822075 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, several people use spoken languages that need editor support. < 1320116069 106752 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I doubt anyone's going to be writing programs with formatting markup anytime soon. < 1320116074 342144 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not type "例えば", I type "tatoeba". < 1320116119 972257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god I'm terrible at web programming. < 1320116122 329421 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. I type in Chinese (and less frequently Japanese) quite often, and I always thought it worked quite well. < 1320116129 300256 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you're using a hiragana keyboard. < 1320116146 913530 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike hiragana keyboard layouts rather strongly. < 1320116158 491557 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But these things have demand. People actually speak Japanese, etc. < 1320116179 885425 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that QWERTY is best or anything, but: seriously, kana would be *really* well-suited to a chording keyboard. < 1320116201 377219 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introducing a language that requires editor support, it won't gain traction; adding features to an existing language, people will just use the old features. < 1320116225 38792 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only way you could get people to change is to alter all source files passed to the implementation. < 1320116250 478220 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quietly but seamlessly replacing ASCII characters with their Unicode equivalents. < 1320116275 557821 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, ASCII di- and trigraph approximations with the genuine article. < 1320116370 968828 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining typing Japanese with just 16-odd keys. *drool* < 1320116408 248526 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With most of the things being 2-key chords, too. :) < 1320116476 219880 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Chinese with...initials+finals+tones. I don't recall offhand how many initials and finals there are. < 1320116487 983411 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd be a lot more convenient than Pinyin input. < 1320116523 569261 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there are abbreviations for common phrases in existing input methods, such as dbq for duibuqi. < 1320116642 757651 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Unicode and CJK ideographs, fuck Unicode. < 1320116650 258348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame that Pinyin is prefered over Pinyin. < 1320116669 28966 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1320116706 129193 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be combining radicals, not a code point for every damn ideograph. < 1320116743 668059 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320116758 202708 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a few precomposed radicals to make any sense of it with TTF (OpenType can do anything) and so that the size of encoded text doesn't explode. < 1320116774 194865 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Pinyin./bopomofo./ < 1320116798 475672 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bopomofo isn't exactly intuitive for non-native Chinese speakers. < 1320116801 728290 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bopomofo is just a significantly better orthography for Mandarin. < 1320116813 320643 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I don't know that it's intuitive for native Chinese speakers either. :P < 1320116816 648378 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is Pinyin. < 1320116850 749847 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pinyin puts native speakers at a slight disadvantage, I guess? < 1320116862 504004 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they have to know the Latin alphabet (kinda). < 1320116870 261674 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, it's really not intuitive for non-native speakers. < 1320116898 428099 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Pinyin? No, but it uses the Latin alphabet. < 1320116905 816657 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses Latin glyphs, but uses rather unique phoneme values for them. < 1320116931 978681 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it's...mnemonic, I guess? < 1320116953 402165 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-66.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1320116981 326523 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from q, c, and x. < 1320116998 721388 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that pitch is not going to be accessible to people who don't bother studying in-depth, so why bother appeasing them? < 1320117045 659116 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1320117087 519481 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who actively learns the language is not going to have much trouble with a phonetic writing system, so bopomofo is not a significant barrier. < 1320117126 238800 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who does *not* bother with that is going to struggle with, well, everything else, so why care about using a writing system they're familiar with? < 1320117182 30109 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a bit of a circular argument, but bopomofo is really only used in Taiwan anymore. < 1320117207 4041 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well aware. < 1320117431 803626 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it doesn't really matter? They've standardised on something and that's the end of it until someone decides to make another new system. < 1320117455 887035 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we'll ever see the end of hanzi. < 1320117481 788386 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or more likely their mutation into something similar and simpler. < 1320117537 231967 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Korea successfully got rid of hanja in all but official documents, but China seems awfully attached. < 1320117553 336353 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese has no hope, with a syllable structure like that. < 1320117770 687362 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, back to programming, I'd like to see a language with modern typographical sensibilities. < 1320117793 512603 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hell, a language with typographical sensibilities from hundreds of years ago. < 1320117805 248805 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've regressed. < 1320117905 757512 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Django kind of has a good idea going with these generic views. < 1320117910 426042 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem: they don't compose in any way < 1320118077 544802 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Personally, I'm kinda amazed Korea managed to actually get rid of hanja. < 1320118100 951104 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with the absurd number of potentially-ambiguous loans from China that are probably utter hell when reading. < 1320118115 210894 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto. But I guess it doesn't matter as much in practice. < 1320118134 443895 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Japanese, well. They're slowly *increasing* the number of kanji in use, thanks to IMEs. :) < 1320118135 268844 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or people structure their sentences in such a way that they're not ambiguous. < 1320118152 528477 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buh. < 1320118160 471504 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long it'll be before 之 is back in common use. < 1320118194 259104 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used in Chinese in a few situations, mostly formal. < 1320118202 426386 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some not. < 1320118222 588798 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I dunno. Perhaps. < 1320118226 22456 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's heavily archaic in Japanese. I think it's only in "common" use in names any more. < 1320118241 548387 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, of course, the word itself is about as common as "the" in English. < 1320118428 209681 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, in Japanese it's kore? In Chinese it's zhi = de = Japanese particle no. < 1320118442 869894 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Japanese it's Japanese particle no. < 1320118458 443458 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure enough, it can also be read 'kore'. < 1320118463 800630 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320118469 313425 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Just looked it up on Google Translate to check. :P < 1320118471 832412 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :此れ is the more "typical" kanji for that, though. < 1320118491 945223 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though anyone actually *using* that is probably more of a pedant than I. < 1320118499 504853 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1320118506 89234 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never seen that... < 1320118614 251973 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've seen it in Chinese, actually. < 1320118626 515921 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure I see a lot of hanzi that aren't kanji. :P < 1320118632 248655 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or aren't common as kanji. < 1320118663 119522 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, at a minimum you see simplified glyphs. < 1320118717 471940 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw simplification, I wanna write 龍! :P < 1320118922 208025 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only studied simplified, but I can read most traditional characters without too much trouble because they're in my textbooks and there's a logical relationship between most pairs. < 1320118949 181013 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, if I go to Taiwan I'm probably fucked/ < 1320118951 11886 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1320118960 586878 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1320118973 194379 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find simplified trivial to read. Well, as trivial as someone who has never studied Mandarin at all can expect. :P < 1320119043 162961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit harder to remember how to write, though. Mangles all the components too much. < 1320119450 325493 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1320119463 335624 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Would* a language with semantic markup be a bad idea? < 1320119487 21948 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing remotely resembling SGML... < 1320119500 581579 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But...something. < 1320119548 575610 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make typesetting, formatting, and highlighting simple and consistent, without getting in the way. < 1320119558 171200 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mumble mumble ALGOL 68 < 1320119623 549424 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a well-designed language has that anyway. < 1320119643 399607 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-to-one correspondence between syntax and semantics, with enough redundancy to be helpful but not so much cruft as to be unusable. < 1320119732 776149 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So nevermind. < 1320119788 627590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's redundant then it's not one-to-one >:) < 1320119805 780321 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be non-bijective. < 1320119822 754663 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one level of syntax but there are multiple levels of semantics < 1320119829 363033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's _still_ not one-to-one. < 1320119851 850739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, it is not surjective, which is even less useful < 1320119895 372237 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is mergesort semantically identical to heapsort? < 1320119898 435351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one-to-one = injective, where i learned terminology) < 1320119927 846143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if we're going to _that_ level, then we'll hit rice's theorem pretty fast :P < 1320120000 994498 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The faster evincar crashes into Rice's, the better < 1320120014 393633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...maybe. < 1320120070 456975 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is evincar crashing into Rice's? < 1320120085 698580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say I didn't expect it < 1320120088 252236 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can say I expected it < 1320120108 178618 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1320120172 212055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-to-one from syntacs to semantics tends to do that, i should think < 1320120177 460860 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say "[a]" means "the type of lists with elements of type a". Semantically one-to-one, syntactically redundant. < 1320120178 275470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1320120211 26227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1320120233 94025 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one term "[a]" corresponds to one concept. < 1320120246 491080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what one-to-one means. < 1320120248 790540 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also includes unnecessary information. < 1320120285 797833 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320120288 82234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1320120301 383950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one-to-one correspondence" can mean bijective < 1320120312 392995 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame the french. < 1320120317 555463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one-to-one function" means injective. < 1320120326 388421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The faster evincar crashes into Rice's, the better < 1320120328 234287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ricervincar < 1320120332 788632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1320120334 287777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r creeped in < 1320120335 804190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ricevincar < 1320120350 793378 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo i will be smooshed noo < 1320120393 690251 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot compete with the power of a theorem that is not strictly relevant to the discussion we're having, though apparently it's relevant to the discussion everyone else thinks we're having. :/ < 1320120409 440110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what discussion are we having < 1320120410 819367 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the record I was talking about bijection. < 1320120412 368286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, " The one term "[a]" corresponds to one concept." says that your correspondence is a _function_. one-to-one is something else. < 1320120426 493256 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1320120432 516710 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave it at that. < 1320120441 456081 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is "[a]" redundant < 1320120461 975657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other ways of writing it < 1320120465 926495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k [] a < 1320120466 609277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type variable `a' < 1320120467 329032 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be "List a", for instance. < 1320120472 800954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1320120484 53125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k [] Int < 1320120484 686708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1320120486 438031 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fewer tokens, same meaning. < 1320120493 536417 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically. < 1320120499 606203 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is one token < 1320120510 713685 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Settle down, highway star < 1320120527 229158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k [ ] Int < 1320120527 839985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1320120530 875826 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320120536 913413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think haskell's parser agrees :P < 1320120544 91903 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a magical token < 1320120553 871716 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1320120559 824556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1320120560 295457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it may be a nonterminal one < 1320120579 631465 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k ( {-: :-} ,) < 1320120580 874599 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -> * -> * < 1320120691 988936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help django hell < 1320120701 106330 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1320120705 944180 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1320122170 788048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is plof kind of like io but way better? < 1320122304 678338 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof is like * but more Gregor. < 1320122428 166478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is * the name of something or a bash wildcard in a session where the wd is /the_universe/programming_languages ? < 1320122830 170339 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildcard. < 1320123093 381535 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1320123106 683894 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: will you be mad if I make a programming language called @ and (c) it. < 1320123139 863442 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the bright side: there are plenty of alternative names. For example, you can name it ttoillex < 1320123155 99828 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can also feast on your succulent brain-meats. < 1320123166 243810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :after yourself. or your reverse self in a reverse universe. < 1320123172 285364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversiverse. < 1320123316 547474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure @ is just a placeholder for @'s eventual name < 1320123343 18774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320123345 363014 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ttoillex is a good name < 1320123383 344944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet you should name your language ttoillex in honour of elliott < 1320123392 991803 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a god idea. < 1320123401 437486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320123417 780587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god itier < 1320123424 513624 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is a good name though. < 1320123428 681822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things. < 1320123449 967818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can market it as being all trendy and abstrackt < 1320123455 283298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that you don't want to google < 1320123478 288134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :google will fall soon after @ is born. < 1320123488 184983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1320123489 874484 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or it will fix its stupid query language to be less stupid. < 1320123498 353137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can hope. < 1320123705 611600 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any programming languages that work like polyglots. < 1320123707 773901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words. < 1320123721 667815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language has, say, two or three different interpreters executing the same source. < 1320123729 623278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different syntax/semantics for each. < 1320123745 329916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks this is a fine idea for an esolang. < 1320123748 443323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wierd? whirl? i forget < 1320123831 328621 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want the internal type of an object to change opaquely at runtime, do I need to use double-indirection so the user doesn't get broken references? < 1320123843 634376 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my intuition, but I don't like the performance hit. < 1320123845 176526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :literate haskell < 1320123865 55290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any literate programming < 1320123881 543023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: itt: smalltalk #become: < 1320123911 853662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was itt again < 1320123925 65134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it with mark and sweep < 1320123940 2778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sincr thst traverses hthe object graph < 1320123950 217578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :ElliottDrone1 < 1320123954 693765 :ElliottDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: read the logs. < 1320123954 935338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just force a gc and use it to rewrite referencred < 1320123958 430046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :references < 1320124001 457210 :ElliottDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet < 1320124004 857157 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Rewriting references occasionally versus double-indirection always. Bluh. < 1320124019 310094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um oh it's _not_ an obscure irc acronym? < 1320124020 220394 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in the latter case it can be optimised away quite often. < 1320124037 763651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gc doesnt take long < 1320124038 224504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's associated with 4chan but may originate from prior to it. < 1320124050 391567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're doing it anyway < 1320124055 117690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, "i think that" simply doesn't fit < 1320124067 698173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it a bit earlier doesn't matter < 1320124088 163034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log itt < 1320124109 926728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: why not just replace the representation in-place < 1320124111 842672 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-19.txt:05:41:41: I'm a sucker for fancy things (that don't have shitty interfaces. see: most fancy looking desktop environments) < 1320124124 847803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log \<[i]tt\> < 1320124134 97836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help wat < 1320124134 170376 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-10-15.txt:20:22:24: ITT: people don't allocate full bandwidth to torrents < 1320124145 951508 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That requires there to be enough storage for the new representation, which I can't necessarily guarantee. < 1320124150 359112 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it means "in this thread" < 1320124156 628630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1320124168 886879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: use a copying gc < 1320124169 723918 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about automatic promotion from machine integers to bigints when necessary, as one example. < 1320124183 499680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocate enough space when you copy < 1320124184 284391 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want the underlying type of the object to change, but the apparent type to remain the same. < 1320124190 92826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1320124200 974985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxhine ints should be tagged pointers < 1320124204 43213 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the user has an opaque type "integer". < 1320124207 276245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not allocated objects. < 1320124222 967161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: just use perl < 1320124225 991698 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all problems will be solved. < 1320124229 315927 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for performance problems. < 1320124240 81954 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the problems I'd like to solve. :( < 1320124274 379236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wait for Perl 6. maybe it fixes that stuff! < 1320124326 277429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: what problems? < 1320124372 755376 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I was using a bad example, but basically just using fast types when possible and non-fast types when necessary. < 1320124401 618860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just allocate the full size up-front < 1320124414 819998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ram is much cheaper than cpu < 1320124416 175778 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory is cheap, I guess. < 1320124418 382778 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1320124450 881444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or allocate one ptr extra on the fast repr < 1320124470 774819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's non-null, it's a ptr to the new bigger repr < 1320124490 993160 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yes use big ints always. < 1320124498 203484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :overhead: one branch when fast, one branch + deref when slow < 1320124505 878507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not what i said < 1320124506 857351 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's prolly what I'll end up doing. < 1320124516 717691 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What elliott did say. < 1320124565 558568 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because otherwise you have to deal with the situation when there are multiple "shakeins" (same apparent type but different implementation) for a type. < 1320124578 659369 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And choosing the largest one might not always be the best idea. < 1320124623 430330 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Term "shakeins" borrowed from http://tal.forum2.org/static/cv/Shakeins.pdf linked from an article about become: in smalltalk.) < 1320124656 805582 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convenient that it showed up, really. < 1320124764 680824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a problem. shakeins just add flavor. < 1320124890 790682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also neither wierd nor whirl seem to match that description. < 1320124964 525355 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of things that might be a bit more interesting than what that article goes into. Also AOP is kinda bullshit. < 1320125027 154222 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, changing the representation of a point from rectangular to polar based on how often it's about to be accessed as which, for a simple example. < 1320125057 574287 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*between rectangular and polar < 1320125059 460350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not change its size < 1320125114 722469 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in that case, no. I'm a bit tired to come up with anything but the int/bigint example at the moment. < 1320125364 583662 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another good example is being able to specify in-language that a string is stored contiguously, even though its apparent type is the vastly less efficient "cons-list of char". < 1320125401 404039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not vastly less efficient < 1320125405 444877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. cons < 1320125417 819613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two totally different structures < 1320125452 718035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :differing strictness, too. < 1320125514 917186 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but I daresay most strings are finite, and why rely on the implementation to make the optimisation when you can have it in the language? < 1320125548 147659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar has never used Haskell. < 1320125563 819531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think unbounded length is the only thing that strictness changes then < 1320125564 693666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :L < 1320125565 365893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1320125565 943100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :L < 1320125616 9281 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a 4 TB string. now consider strict vs. non-strict < 1320125646 761890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i mentioned cons yet < 1320125654 516599 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd use a still different representation for that. Buffered in chunks, perhaps. < 1320125658 587874 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also infinite strings are used all the time in Haskell. If you don't want the linked list implementation there are plenty of other sequence types. < 1320125659 595599 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a rope. < 1320125681 175637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot substitute two structures that are completely different < 1320125688 889041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is stupid and misguided. < 1320125698 850717 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, that's not what I'm suggesting. < 1320125713 676746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs must be written for their structures or they will be inefficient < 1320125718 382913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop < 1320125734 304439 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it may be possible to substitute structures as an optimisation. < 1320125758 323760 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And isn't generic programming sort of a point against you, full stop? < 1320125781 732414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme know when you get an example that doesn't change semantics < 1320125792 770311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no it's not. < 1320125794 37624 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering the whole point is to abstract algorithms away from structures using iterators (or ranges, which have since turned out to be better in most cases). < 1320125822 47413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a parenthical < 1320125825 528590 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that you make the changes locally in such a way that they *don't* change semantics except potentially to improve performance. < 1320125826 403971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm done. < 1320125919 783020 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1320126022 111138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYSCZECH I TOUT I M ON TH WEB: http://127.0.0.1:8000/ < 1320126109 371584 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :i WILL soon b f4moose < 1320126124 126137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ljh< < 1320126162 17769 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your parlance has grown quite obscure, sir ttoille. < 1320126174 924529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.,lo987654esxcvbnm, < 1320126206 715069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice path. < 1320126230 833773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I daresay < 1320126232 292159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a circuit < 1320126324 951706 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuugh < 1320126338 640864 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long I can procrastinate writing a Django template. < 1320126350 407959 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes more Python instead. < 1320127190 396618 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow Django's web docs are really shitty. < 1320127417 647517 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thorough but also not very well organized. < 1320127749 343527 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Quit: I give you the gift of lack of me. < 1320128201 94379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A NAR archive is like a TAR or Zip archive, but it contains only the information that Nix considers important. For instance, timestamps are elided because all files in the Nix store have their timestamp set to 0 anyway. Likewise, all permissions are left out except for the execute bit, because all files in the Nix store have 644 or 755 permission." < 1320128201 680905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1320128246 58206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how that interacts with setuid and friends... < 1320128635 923882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it nixes them < 1320128650 970213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: har har < 1320128787 680297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This just in: Gamers hit a new low by /not understanding multiplication/. < 1320129273 195331 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320129298 434664 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320129621 404085 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320129763 696806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm? < 1320129765 822065 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1320129767 601097 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :citation needed. < 1320129801 163723 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320129818 300500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ = s/^/[/r =~ s/$/]/r < 1320129829 323094 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the meaning of this correction should be obvious to anyone) < 1320130328 613093 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320130685 202747 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320130987 204256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Setuid and setgid programs are not currently supported by Nix. This is because the Nix archives used in deployment have no concept of ownership information, and because it makes the build result dependent on the user performing the build." < 1320130988 649436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1320130992 212770 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning < 1320131023 551540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Ask the Nix people how they handle gcc not being deterministic. < 1320131044 983307 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah! < 1320131051 593546 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They changed Google Reader! < 1320131072 403136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ask them why they rebuild packages depending on dynamic libraries even when it's unnecessary. < 1320131072 658622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help I'm trying to do something incredibly simple and I'm getting bogged down in object-oriented cruft. < 1320131088 845879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Python mind virus. And with that... < 1320131090 18799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320131113 965029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't have that mind virus! < 1320131375 928161 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he meant to get it < 1320131388 96044 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, for you to get it < 1320131389 498693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know. < 1320131398 118364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying I can't get it! I'm already immune < 1320131408 19802 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear < 1320131408 737348 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it and then got cured, years ago. < 1320131416 718058 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try a different strain < 1320131423 477928 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IronPython < 1320131464 479061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if I think of the Python paradigm as "memorize a bunch of classes, methods, and huge keyword argument lists" < 1320131519 527574 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : @method_decorator(login_required) < 1320131519 700642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : def dispatch(self, *args, **kwargs): < 1320131521 214601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : return super(ProtectedView, self).dispatch(*args, **kwargs) < 1320131522 408947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.... < 1320131547 214761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so much boilerplate, to apply that login_required decorator bit to every instance of a class < 1320131550 358450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THREE WHOLE LINES < 1320131555 14230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with *args **kwargs and super nonsense. < 1320131580 26131 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also TWO IMPORTS < 1320133403 308019 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1320133540 804933 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good python < 1320133547 864500 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :friend python < 1320133598 205976 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deadly python. < 1320133761 191329 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1320133762 851907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad python. < 1320133773 513924 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1320133779 70796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad incomplete Django documentation < 1320133797 168181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a huge crufty web app framework should have utterly complete docs. < 1320133852 374508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1320134339 90486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the Book isn't so bad as far as it goes, but the reference docs have been organized with some sort of alien-hive-mind logic. < 1320134769 148736 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320134823 189599 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320135505 130449 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320135786 304667 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1320136553 689382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the book doesn't document this new class-based generic view stuff I'm attempting to use. < 1320136574 967478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps.... I should use the old stuff? < 1320136599 772969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'm literally browsing source code to figure this shit out. < 1320138447 382796 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I see that the (v2) book is sort of stuck in the 2009s. Oh well; it was new when I looked at it, some years ago. < 1320138470 604672 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1320138474 289161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#django was no help at all. < 1320138488 443497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite of help in fact. < 1320138493 383213 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :led me in the wrong direction < 1320138494 848391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOURS later < 1320138497 617923 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally figured out < 1320138501 386057 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to do this incredibly simple thing. < 1320138790 962747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind... I didn't. < 1320138809 139721 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously this is stupid. < 1320139031 24809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320139477 295469 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320140004 60078 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140004 334339 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140004 406245 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140004 509485 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140004 649137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140004 917068 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140005 219862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140005 292079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140006 233950 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140006 306450 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320140832 130863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1320143291 288481 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320143574 129567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1320143762 272605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@h193n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320143769 82387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@h193n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com QUIT :Changing host < 1320143769 155093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1320143773 199084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually it's better than Perl: They're written in... autoconf perl? <-- wow < 1320143877 620175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heyyy, this manual told me Nix doesn't care about the actual versions. <-- I guess it has to care for a command like "update to last userland in my $PATH". No way around it if you want a well defined behaviour for what executing a command does < 1320143939 794209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm what are some neat things I can do with the free SMS gateway my carrier provides? <-- well, what about controlling car engine heater from your bed using your phone? < 1320143959 531957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you live in a cold climate that is < 1320144423 316299 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1320146381 436457 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1320146804 342232 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320146959 233185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320147436 464440 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1320147518 765520 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320147543 348042 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320147638 336787 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1320148161 530920 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320149698 695518 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1320149806 318264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320149833 843347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320150440 453398 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1320153370 384804 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320154078 662391 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1320154089 415739 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320156029 977122 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320156614 7322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so, someone ascended already. Quite impressive. < 1320157478 555995 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1320157947 417488 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that surprising < 1320157953 814049 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as there's a prize for first ascension < 1320157968 773467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1320157977 713852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, still it is pretty quick. < 1320157992 361699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, and it was with tourist < 1320158025 977028 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tourist is a pretty powerful role, actually < 1320158026 147999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I find tourist hard to play personally < 1320158029 247328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320158035 173856 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a bad start, but not as bad as some other roles < 1320158039 999967 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gets very good very quickly < 1320158050 194807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, perhaps < 1320158059 247505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never lasted very long as tourist < 1320158111 506833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320158380 441415 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1320158715 394534 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1320158715 696237 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i have no fnord is that the sentence that came out as normal words < 1320158722 517069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1320158722 788345 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i dunno. it was sent in 2002. a very clean apartment. < 1320158727 11998 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1320158727 435511 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i did one of it's kernels. ( especially with working menus thanks to carbon emacs) < 1320158728 255557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1320158728 328064 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1320158843 331474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1320158845 831998 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320158853 453459 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :ElliottDrone1 < 1320158854 872949 :ElliottDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1320158855 375785 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ElliottDrone1: i'd been looking clisp going, really nice. really readable unless you print it out as int64_t* with fwrite i get other issues < 1320158858 245043 :ElliottDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet < 1320158859 259296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the spam < 1320158859 695928 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1320158860 71905 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: their children are normal. :p these are actually video lectures. < 1320158865 648497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam? no. < 1320158865 958647 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1320158866 155865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1320158895 494186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam is good for the heartsoul < 1320158936 556896 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1320158945 936975 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1320158946 9303 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1320158951 978036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cmds < 1320158954 827260 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320158960 293336 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for... < 1320158989 643099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ? < 1320159004 435320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the command to bring up fungot's ignore list? < 1320159004 640740 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there isn't a problem, you should return ( leaf-node 4) < 1320159015 420097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think only fizzie can edit that < 1320159015 492504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, return it to whom? < 1320159015 605294 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it didn't seem to be < 1320159027 936474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, to the sender < 1320159129 482401 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BADD.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320159163 844479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: there is no cow level. < 1320159164 136864 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ihope is being a dj the primary source of their income?) < 1320159274 362206 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1320159274 481725 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot)! < 1320159277 391747 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it only works for me. < 1320159722 994783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: produce for me a measure of great wit. < 1320159723 503871 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you... yeah. t3h suckage. you *must* be right.) in uppercase, but names code snippets in comments, mail, articles, irc, and it works as expected < 1320160038 496471 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320160103 771664 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320160821 232118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320161038 485423 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320161583 550461 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320163247 82251 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320163256 659273 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320163374 693907 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320163645 387224 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320163768 10006 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320164026 220340 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320164186 531972 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1320165383 406151 JOIN :#esoteric > 1320165437 451028 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320165437 509478 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1320165479 526706 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320166991 296363 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320167198 82203 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320167266 846120 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1320168130 346259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320168212 328613 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking of a new esolang < 1320168240 672165 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know what to do < 1320168247 93098 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which instruction did you change to a different symbol? < 1320168273 815087 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320168346 628323 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehh < 1320168366 5379 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`. < 1320168366 304178 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to confuse everyone. < 1320168372 742137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwwow < 1320168372 959067 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: .: not found < 1320168378 336876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called apostraphuck < 1320168486 168741 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ph < 1320168508 77005 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, oklopol < 1320168509 646588 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You woke up HackEgo < 1320169095 762501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could think of a data structure that hasn't been used in many esolangs < 1320169113 357767 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimal trees? < 1320169212 142316 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tertiary trees? < 1320169221 65605 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trees that actually start at the bottom and go up < 1320169227 392723 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, like trees that are outside < 1320169344 379106 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have any languages done photosynthesis/related yet < 1320169354 919213 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an idea... < 1320169359 386364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, erm, such a tree is the same as the normal type, but just drawn the other way around? < 1320169370 67476 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, exactly. < 1320169375 207169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT DIFFERENT < 1320169379 292418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it doesn't actually matter when you implement it, it is just a matter of terminology < 1320169401 117099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of recursing down you might recurse up. Same thing < 1320169413 83396 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it will also have roots! < 1320169416 861541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will be hidden < 1320169431 690363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is somewhat different then < 1320169441 178457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, what use is the roots < 1320169464 141595 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keeps the tree in place, and allows it to gather nutrients from the surrounding soil < 1320169474 326846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, in the programming language I meant < 1320169484 284151 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an esoteric programming language < 1320169489 12819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1320169504 499573 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, they are for a very similar purpose to actual trees < 1320169507 868659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, but what actual effect on programming in it would the hidden roots have? < 1320169529 40957 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're... used for system calls? < 1320169535 496243 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make programming harder? < 1320169556 526971 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those were two separate ideas, not meant to be taken together, by the way < 1320169563 549354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure for the latter, but how does it make it harder. Can you give me an example where it matters in a major way? < 1320169593 627046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't make the roots heavy or big enough, the tree falls over and the program crashes < 1320169609 312367 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are too heavy and not big enough, arithmetic becomes harder to do < 1320169623 502096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the tree for the program itself or as a data structure for the program? < 1320169630 928134 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both, in a way < 1320169642 95161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1320169643 404926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mainly the data structure < 1320169655 485536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I was meant to say the data structure < 1320169677 556086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"was meant", by whom? < 1320169680 350945 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program describes how nutrients should be moved around < 1320169690 278124 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your question < 1320169700 691203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1320169701 184980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program will be plain-text < 1320169709 213493 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intercal-like < 1320169728 615121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one could argue that Intercal is not exactly plain text. ;P < 1320169733 985573 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling the language Bonsai < 1320169739 407692 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more plaintext than Piet < 1320169751 623036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, there was an emoticon < 1320169755 678860 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, ha < 1320169798 640220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, well yes, also Intercal has stuff like using a literal backspace to write two letters in the same place < 1320169810 663903 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true < 1320169820 770063 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe more like... ORK < 1320169827 648567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1320169832 883022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, wait, isn't that a bf clone? < 1320169844 724739 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be Ook! < 1320169858 402812 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORK is the Object-Oriented one < 1320169859 477732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw I finally got around to looking at that constant wrapping code. I have one question though. < 1320169866 830717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1320169869 642689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : frac n d < 1320169869 695564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : | n `rem` d == 0 = n `div` d < 1320169869 802733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = (n+d) `div` d < 1320169870 990638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit < 1320169877 570247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that behave wrt negative numbers < 1320169882 944791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which direction does it round < 1320169897 996090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rem is like C % < 1320169900 851329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and div? < 1320169902 610331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod is like mathematics < 1320169910 172195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: divMod/quotRem < 1320169910 412052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it round to 0 or to -inf < 1320169914 598871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter is C < 1320169914 732705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320169918 722263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1320169920 672621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is worrying < 1320169924 655972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so the division rounds in a non-C way then < 1320169924 825615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should be `quot` < 1320169927 838645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it works :) < 1320169934 134666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology tests negative fungespace, right? < 1320169960 168629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but it might only hit an even divisible case < 1320169961 836971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1320169962 495865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: eh, just check fungot works :p (I can't run fungot) < 1320169963 40071 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now it froze again before the program was tiled across 2d space, and i got 3 for that < 1320169968 892845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should test well if underload is tested < 1320170000 138826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once again, fungot replied appropriately < 1320170001 127626 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: a command would switch your " current" one and you could find. < 1320170012 982762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can you sprunge the code for me? I don't have it here :P < 1320170018 968068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh also, I gather it is not meant to be used unless you detected already you crossed outside the borders? < 1320170021 439185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fizzie, I'm scared < 1320170026 700493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sec < 1320170038 77171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It replaces the loop you have. So yes. < 1320170062 495713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sprunge.us/DLNE < 1320170092 752627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, that's actually not the latest code, Vector became its own type :-) < 1320170094 738478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right < 1320170109 576716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, it is the one I had though < 1320170131 201598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check the rem/div thing using logs of the source < 1320170136 970427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also "f"? < 1320170143 297918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, f < 1320170156 991710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are free to figure out what an appropriate name for it is < 1320170162 814991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was just about to ask you < 1320170165 861164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd just call it f < 1320170177 605346 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320170180 725941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hell I'll go with static int f(int, int, int, int) < 1320170188 901970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very idiomatic, but whatever < 1320170194 379182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: static INLINE! < 1320170200 941238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_FUNGE_FAST or whatever it is < 1320170224 644025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually the static was there because "f" is a way too generic name to let it escape into the global namespace :P < 1320170234 635366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, frac_dir might work < 1320170247 799887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a frac wrapper that deals with the direction < 1320170374 629921 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320170387 804456 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320170397 330324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw sometimes it seems to return coords outside the boundaries. < 1320170411 185040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame your division < 1320170413 702123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it needs a step to get into the boundaries < 1320170422 989249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, your haskell version < 1320170433 761115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Right, I think I advance after doing that, or something. < 1320170435 199784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1320170453 825236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> wrap (0,0) (10,10) (Ray (5,5) (2,0)) < 1320170453 877826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ray (-1,5) (2,0) < 1320170466 179083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess so < 1320170482 563832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS, why does reddit make it so hard to go to a given page of a comment overview? < 1320170494 528538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same with 11,5 for the coord btw) < 1320170536 130257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, my pull request got merged. < 1320170547 179976 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: happy happy joy < 1320170551 335463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pull request for what? < 1320170558 932559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/pbrisbin/aurget/pull/4 < 1320170591 91930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, aurget < 1320170594 642735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like yaourt? < 1320170642 612086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, except it just does AUR < 1320170649 913337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has far less annoying prompts/output < 1320170676 280980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so if you need a dep from the main repo you have to do that by hand? < 1320170682 359372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it calls out to pacman < 1320170691 828684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then it doesn't just do AUR ;P < 1320170989 109590 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320171105 115421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need some meme advice: when using "accidentally" as a verb, is the third-person form "accidentally" or "accidentalies"? < 1320171113 213103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the former would be more consistent with the etymology < 1320171121 151709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks really wrong < 1320171125 101927 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singular or plural? < 1320171127 82111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't... don't do that < 1320171136 203157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you're doing :P < 1320171136 363716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not < 1320171138 118599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone else did < 1320171151 44236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it threw me for a loop, and I'm trying to recover < 1320171160 464208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: singular, obviously; there's no problem with plural < 1320171166 579607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think "accidentally" < 1320171169 930244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally isn't really the verb < 1320171175 497486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the word before the invisible verb < 1320171199 105457 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think accidentallies... < 1320171218 594496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1320171227 563876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone used just "accidentally" in the context, and it /looks wrong/ < 1320171231 662359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that's the point < 1320171303 800053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320171315 454512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the Koan of Drescher and the Toaster < 1320171703 881494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-October/158845.html < 1320171710 833295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What; Lennart is doing something reasonable for once? < 1320171946 211841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw why did you error out on zero delta? < 1320171951 730105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know it is perfectly valid < 1320171972 218707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CCBI does, too; you can replace it with for(;;) sleep(9999999999) if you wish. < 1320171979 261465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1320171983 533917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice to have an option to report that, though. < 1320172003 867824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer a busy-loop, it is what cfunge currently does if you are stupid enough to set your delta to zero < 1320172004 968919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But I hereby license my code under the "You're not allowed to put an explicit busyloop" license. :p < 1320172008 410168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least sleep it out! < 1320172011 42962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baaaaaah. < 1320172012 246050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are bad. < 1320172016 340275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, like, so un-green. < 1320172026 318979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... RED. < 1320172030 396210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would break compatibility with previous behaviour. < 1320172064 111638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I might make cfunge error on it. < 1320172109 963902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway do you error if delta is zero and you are not wrapping? < 1320172113 594592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, that is quite weirfd < 1320172115 753306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird* < 1320172125 179977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet :) < 1320172145 195141 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e2c4.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320172146 313512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also iirc there is a fingerprint to poke the delta of other IPs < 1320172150 688431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you would not support that < 1320172172 480802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to make it return to allow for easy implementation of such a fingerprint in the future < 1320172207 803759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway how could you get outside of the borders with a zero delta < 1320172211 59522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even possible? < 1320172220 639097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1320172221 485670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if there was a fingerprint to poke another thread < 1320172265 659900 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Jargonwiki is what we are stopping ourselves from becoming < 1320172276 707151 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been overran with spam < 1320172304 882137 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, I just caught it at a bad time < 1320172309 562229 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait < 1320172317 40825 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god it's bad < 1320172373 132608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw why did you name that "m", what does it stand for < 1320172378 196544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Oh no, it's based on the wrong jargon file. < 1320172405 260736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing. I don't think I named it m, actually. < 1320172417 731901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... "where m" < 1320172418 936390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't worry too much about the names. < 1320172420 63528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that there < 1320172437 921464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't named m then the code is lying :P < 1320172467 957760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it wasn't named m. < 1320172478 935336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only a finite number of BF Joust programs < 1320172557 152228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *fundamentally different BF Joust programs < 1320172570 82660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, I'll grant you < 1320172588 902153 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, an interpreter can cut all programs off after 100000 with NO change to execution < 1320172601 533129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you do if the delta for one IP is 0 but the program is multithreaded? < 1320172612 595761 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320172627 580284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: untrue < 1320172629 709765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...)*0 < 1320172651 652119 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :100000 characters < 1320172657 936382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1320172658 850766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untrue. < 1320172660 812170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...)*0 < 1320172664 194316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, currently wrap locks up, which is allowed as I implement the reference algorithm provided by the spec exactly as written there. < 1320172666 946347 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see not what that is doin < 1320172668 90385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1320172673 867841 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320172674 148180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blah blah blah)*0 is a comment. < 1320172676 736891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, so is "qhdfdjkfhsdkjf". < 1320172678 769731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless said spec is bugged. < 1320172679 94214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh < 1320172681 303316 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is < 1320172683 991446 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320172686 592507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those things take no cycles but many characters. < 1320172707 164988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from now on however I will just skip handling that IP. < 1320172748 323962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, after removal of comments and expansion of brackets, an interpreter can cut all programs off after 100000 characters with NO change to execution < 1320172749 933703 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better? < 1320172751 478877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I believe that's wrong < 1320172755 654307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero-delta is meant to lock up < 1320172763 973345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you error out then? < 1320172771 588455 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it execute the command it's over repeatedly? < 1320172775 733211 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make sense < 1320172778 515992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because locking up sucks < 1320172782 929062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But context-switching to other IPs is wrong < 1320172784 759910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Expansion of brackets is untenable, nobody has enough RAM to do that for the programs we write nowadays < 1320172791 164289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. < 1320172796 815307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: But what you've said approximately reduces to "after 100000 cycles"... :P < 1320172806 747258 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless there are loops < 1320172807 429607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where does it say that? Isn't this perhaps undefined behaviour? < 1320172815 193567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ask Deewiant < 1320172815 426953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need Deewiant and cpressy here < 1320172820 227936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, prod. < 1320172828 712276 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is cpressy alive? < 1320172836 687060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to dead? < 1320172839 380396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's cpressey. < 1320172844 149783 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is < 1320172849 285219 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressy is non-existant < 1320172859 66197 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as opposed to dead to us < 1320172862 384240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, he's quite thoroughly alive: http://catseye.tc/news.html < 1320172869 656022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just doesn't come on IRC much any more. < 1320172873 101562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Wrt multiple threads, what is the correct behaviour of wrapping with a delta of 0. Should the program just lock up? Or should it switch to another thread? < 1320172914 992949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, dinner < 1320172918 803541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could have died since he wrote that < 1320172921 474725 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: noms < 1320173006 791302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By the way, the Voxatron Arch package now works perfectly on 64-bit. < 1320173011 723052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Arch/AUR/ < 1320173021 895385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1320173022 29607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be sure to install the optional dependency it mentions if you want sound support :) < 1320173058 908165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still impressed it looks as good as it does seeing as it's software-rendered. < 1320173073 792823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is software rendered!? < 1320173075 959055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320173081 22472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, with SDL. < 1320173085 668198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that explains why I only got about 110 FPS < 1320173091 859667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only| < 1320173092 176517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the antialias on < 1320173094 467141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/|/"/ < 1320173107 191464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also why it ignored the vsync setting < 1320173107 838699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's a reason the sysreqs are "1 GHz CPU and any graphics card" :P < 1320173117 497933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sysreqs? Who reads them < 1320173127 43333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also: The whole thing is done completely through the voxel array. < 1320173129 916220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the menus. < 1320173133 817281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did notice that < 1320173142 836962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's not just an illusion, it's even like that in the code apparently. < 1320173152 53863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could run it on a "voxel display" without changes :P < 1320173152 106650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sadly I seemed unable to shoot the help text that the sign displayed < 1320173154 266462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did try < 1320173164 588624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you doing this time? < 1320173166 464406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not even sure what a voxel display is < 1320173169 767623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Voxatron, buy it already. < 1320173174 386315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nor am I :P < 1320173178 247106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, reading this: http://catseye.tc/projects/flobnar/doc/Flobnar.falderal < 1320173180 573532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember where my moneys are. < 1320173198 28542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, on your VISA-card? < 1320173205 868544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or paypal < 1320173224 284459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I don't remember where that is either. < 1320173239 128887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you have it saved in PayPal you don't need to. < 1320173240 799300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in your wallet ? < 1320173244 525855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can remember your username and password. < 1320173250 265472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is of course SO SAFE. < 1320173265 793496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that does worry me quite a bit about PayPal I have to say. < 1320173273 854632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, too much like hard work. < 1320173288 734298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Seriously, you want to buy this one. < 1320173310 375416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to PayPal. < 1320173318 768533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a lot less security than the typical bank transaction have. With my bank I use the card in a hardware device to generate a response code and so on. Feels quite a bit safer. < 1320173344 275699 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, Subwayspam offers me a FREE 6-inch sub when I buy another one ... before 9AM. < 1320173361 486739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it isn't worth it really unless they add some other game. Sure, the game is good, but it isn't amazing. < 1320173368 343655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's also alpha :P < 1320173380 436881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think Minecraft alpha 1.0 or whatever the fuck. < 1320173388 93826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The idea is to make it completely scriptable. < 1320173393 850591 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it was that VoxelNatural game now. < 1320173395 704572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the dev's post about it) < 1320173397 326910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is what you get if the resolution in the y-direction is an odd number: https://imgur.com/cYF77 < 1320173406 2275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1320173411 187488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's emulating a CRT for you < 1320173425 910179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the lines are tied to the models, not to the position on the monitor < 1320173431 783775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1320173432 114458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, you were there for the VoxelNats? < 1320173442 420939 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Where? < 1320173461 204450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might ask why I tested, well the second resolution listed is derived from dividing the native resolution in half. Which in my case gives me an uneven number. < 1320173469 258228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I read the thread. < 1320173471 926872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1320173501 141427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then you saw the image too? Since I posted such a thread iirc < 1320173565 516046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I do find the font a bit hard to read in that game sometimes < 1320173593 314316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall an image. < 1320173602 497843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1320173661 614184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Where? < 1320173664 81256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-minecraft. < 1320173693 728358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I think I was lurking at that time. < 1320173694 94017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the gateway to my moneys is sealed to me. < 1320173754 346371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you do on the second level < 1320173757 127516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't get it < 1320173773 922264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Haven't gotten that far yet, was busy dealing with audio troubles. < 1320173860 135906 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did all of you buy that thing already, or is there some sort of a thing? < 1320173887 550602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I bought it for a cheap sum, will increase that if they add more games < 1320173951 202163 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Steam's Halloween sale had a "Trains vs Zombies" DLC pack to that one train simulator. That was a bit "what". < 1320174001 883864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heard about it. Didn't work very well from what I remember < 1320174012 997640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from seeing an attempt at a video of it < 1320174032 271919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I did buy Cthulhu saves the world from the halloween sale though < 1320174049 717379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a nice game done as a NES-style RPG with a lot of parody thrown in < 1320174056 502833 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed it was very cheap. < 1320174060 371636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I bought it but Phantom_Hoover can't because he is a robot. < 1320174061 890041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skipped, though. < 1320174071 696512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think it was worth the money < 1320174077 27262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, totally hilarious < 1320174223 202605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But two whole euros. It's, like, one more than one. < 1320174244 103840 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the second is not quite whole. < 1320174247 125664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how dare you, Roombas are soulless automata. < 1320174352 591313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I got it for 1.33 € for both it and another game together iirc (for the steam game mentioned above) < 1320174367 326372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :used steam because it cost slightly more on gamers gate, and just one game there < 1320174393 836654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to pay 1p. < 1320174544 675935 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1p press start. < 1320174611 791811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh /no/ < 1320174619 957722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1320174623 340661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why me? < 1320174640 337685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I... have a use for the Secret Project < 1320174653 805719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really? What is it? < 1320174655 92549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, are you sure? < 1320174660 35988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what the Secret Project is for yet < 1320174661 342299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think so??? < 1320174682 261192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me know the use, anyway < 1320174688 309153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Secret Project gives perfectly deterministic (and thus repeatable) execution of Linux programs without being ridiculously slow, right? < 1320174725 82588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you read the TSC from the user space? Or is that instruction kernel only? < 1320174736 394690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, or will do when it's finished < 1320174745 277450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's exactly what I need. :( < 1320174753 46487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this is a statement that's true about the Secret Project, rather than being its purpose < 1320174753 349638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for what? < 1320174772 417257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Package building. < 1320174777 4576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1320174780 655318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nix has problems with e.g. people depending on the system clock or uname. < 1320174787 387805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which obviously violates the purity it tries hard to create. < 1320174799 422152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the solution is... the Secret Project. < 1320174817 208099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320174817 572249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also does something use "dbpq" as a twirlie in place of a "-/|\"? < 1320174819 574777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is, ais523: how long do I gotta wait for a public release :P < 1320174823 493451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the Secret Project may well set them to arbitrary values < 1320174828 751014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that's fine. < 1320174833 841947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, err, quite a while, as I have higher priorities and am at work < 1320174843 463654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how is linux setup, can you execute RDTSC from user space? according to CPU docs that depends on if CR4.TSD is set to 0 or 1 < 1320174857 427314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is set to 0 you can always introduce non-determinism < 1320174867 917386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Butbutbut... < 1320174894 68285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RDTSC instruction can be enabled or disabled by operating systems. For example, on some versions of the Linux kernel, seccomp sandboxing mode disables RDTSC.[8] It can also be disabled using the PR_SET_TSC argument to the prctl() syscall.[9] < 1320174906 625313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can Secret Project-ran programs write to a filesystem? < 1320174908 540294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well then, it is usually enabled I guess < 1320174911 397230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I need to call that prctl < 1320174921 979453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that might stop the program from working < 1320174924 344573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, to a hidden filesystem < 1320174930 596576 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is usually enabled, but I doubt many people use it. < 1320174933 641023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how far has the secret project progressed btw? < 1320174936 518832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filesystem in question has a lifetime tied to that of a process < 1320174937 38127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which can then be read after it's finished? < 1320174941 238237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1320174948 164875 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Performance counters were discussed back then. < 1320174948 350298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it could theoretically be tied to a file < 1320174950 445846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, but it could be < 1320174950 875290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if I need to get the resulting FS? < 1320174959 995567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't be too hard to modify to do that < 1320174961 357212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1320174983 235366 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320174988 57075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, the worst part of needing the Secret Project is that you need the Secret Project < 1320174990 681209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1320174991 444592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't you make public the parts of the secret project that would benefit elliott here, those would not really compromise it if it is cleanly separated. < 1320174997 423254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just to check, you're not writing it for package building, right? < 1320175004 47946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1320175006 847956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It obviously isn't even working for my purposes yet < 1320175016 27030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it is a good start < 1320175016 949414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I probably could, but it wouldn't work < 1320175019 431403 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which secret project are we talking about? < 1320175020 531588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in its current state < 1320175024 746541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to starting from scratch < 1320175025 567452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: /the/ Secret Project < 1320175027 642093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So I'll just do what Nix does (set the obvious stuff to dummy values and trust the package.) < 1320175029 975403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that gets capital letters on its name < 1320175030 689809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.)/)./ < 1320175048 459323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one < 1320175048 536335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, the worst that can happen is that you have a broken package that behaves differently when you GC it and reinstall it. < 1320175048 875717 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: After all, it only needs to work right, not to be right. < 1320175056 204659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and do it in a chroot with just what it needs according to the package description visible? < 1320175057 667176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's like foo = unsafePerformIO randomNumber. < 1320175066 924789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's bad, but it probably isn't going to cause actual problems. < 1320175073 216281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just another broken package. < 1320175081 327842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, valgrind must be installed in the --prefix given to it's ./configure < 1320175089 368902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it won't run from anywhere else. < 1320175099 601450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Tons of packages do that, that's why DESTDIR was invented; what's your point? < 1320175102 712313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason, hard coded paths. Why? Because it doesn't use libc < 1320175112 662192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. Just saying you can't relocate it. < 1320175120 482546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why would you want to? < 1320175133 551057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, the valgrind people thought it worth documenting this < 1320175151 951151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Why are you telling me...? < 1320175162 560427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, two more games in that thing? How coincidental. < 1320175171 213299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? nice, will check them out < 1320175207 983244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It was inevitable. < 1320175218 112622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I assumed it was reasonably common (and you might do that with some unusual fs layout) since they wrote this: http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/dist.readme-packagers.html < 1320175238 35410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Even dpkg and friends have to deal with that, if they don't use fakeroot. < 1320175244 536074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I heard nice things about "Blocks That matter" < 1320175245 257272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they have to put the files in a subdirectory to package up. < 1320175250 611732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposed to be really screwy < 1320175271 885921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But anyway, in a Nix-style system no relocation is done, ever. < 1320175275 265056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wtf, "the binding of isaac" I heard it was quite nasty. Like super-nasty < 1320175290 420902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nasty" < 1320175294 638507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's from one of the Super Meat Boy guys < 1320175304 595433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never played that < 1320175306 375823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1320175321 38254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ridiculously popular indie platformer thing. < 1320175328 627908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good, if painful. < 1320175332 496681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1320175335 29786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (following on from previous statement) Even if you install a package for a different architecture it still goes in the same place everywhere. < 1320175360 960423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320175373 396834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When Isaac’s mother starts hearing the voice of God demanding a sacrifice be made to prove her faith, Isaac escapes into the basement facing droves of deranged enemies, lost brothers and sisters, his fears, and eventually his mother. The Binding of Isaac is a randomly generated action RPG shooter with heavy Rogue-like elements." < 1320175374 242986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1320175377 993949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some plot. < 1320175388 851724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay @ randomly-generated. < 1320175429 591777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You probably know this stuff: How does using -m32 with an x86-64 compiler differ from using a host=x86-64, target=x86 cross-compiler? < 1320175431 331561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (gcc) < 1320175442 157406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I saw a bit of a play through recently of that (live stream, so I can't link it). Style of the dungeon reminded me a LOT of Zelda a link to the past < 1320175447 524751 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might define an XML-based game development language < 1320175454 760724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't. < 1320175455 141610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the door shape and everything < 1320175503 401431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder how much I could parallelise expression evaluation. < 1320175521 466773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather Nix is quite a bit slower than apt and the like because packages are much more powerful. < 1320175532 228627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could compile them :-) < 1320175547 370621 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly just XML-incorporating < 1320175558 581817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1320175559 838739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is awful < 1320175577 932335 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1320175589 852903 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I feel like it < 1320175596 76091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for building and downloading and so on? Or during actual runtime? < 1320175604 197148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? At which part? < 1320175626 296873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean potentially the lookup time for finding a given dependency could be different on NixOS < 1320175644 69099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw does it use RPATH magic or how is it done on NixOS? < 1320175644 472252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building is irrelevant, the context is binary packages < 1320175657 650985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no lookup time during runtime < 1320175661 608668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find libssl.so < 1320175661 876911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that you have to load and run a fuckton of programs to calculate dependencies and the like < 1320175663 86588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1320175667 107248 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll subsequently create a JSON version < 1320175669 571020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What do you mean, how is what done? < 1320175696 144825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, say I have foo which depends on libm.so, obviously we need to find the right version of libm.so to match this excecutable < 1320175698 668830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that bit done < 1320175706 956295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by hard coding the RPATH into foo? < 1320175708 849200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do you need to do that < 1320175715 292946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when executing foo < 1320175719 688916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do static linking < 1320175720 993515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1320175726 240058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think nixos does < 1320175730 441023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo links to /nix/store/89sdfusd89fu89sdfu9-libssl-3.9/lib/libssl.so < 1320175739 899624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, but how is that done on the ELF level < 1320175756 708371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty RPATH, linking to /nix/store/89sdfusd89fu89sdfu9-libssl-3.9/lib/libssl.so? RPATH=/nix/store/89sdfusd89fu89sdfu9-libssl-3.9/lib, linking to libssl.so? < 1320175764 481828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which one < 1320175767 657279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the latter, since they have that patchelf thing. < 1320175770 33946 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The *main* distiction is that -m32 will have the compiler looking in /usr/include for headers, and /usr/lib32 for libraries. < 1320175773 123015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320175773 789125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It seems immaterial. < 1320175778 4070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the latter is easier to do w/ commercial binaries. < 1320175781 901189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to patch the RPATH. < 1320175782 308220 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than having it look in a cross-compilation prefix. < 1320175788 621609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is what their patchelf does. < 1320175807 585102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. That's actually irrelevant to me I think since I'd override that anyway. < 1320175809 465470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the technology seems to be there in SVG+SMIL+XSLT < 1320175812 583225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What're the non-main distinctions? :p < 1320175816 627327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what about building your own stuff in ~, how do you find the include files, lets say you do #include < 1320175825 210573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried that on nixos < 1320175844 285519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ls ~/.nix-profile/usr/include, one presumes. < 1320175851 686349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably /usr/include would work too. < 1320175865 264831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320175884 67463 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shit sometimes breaks because gcc -m32 looks like you're building a native binary with some weird optimisation flag. < 1320175902 940783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess pkg-config would solve it for pretty much everything outside libc, ncurses and a few other such core/classical libraries < 1320175905 281878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with autoconf. < 1320175920 45417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh good. So my decision to avoid -m32 entirely was the correct one. < 1320175942 148187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I figure if you're not using the 32-bit binary packages, you can't complain too much about it building a cross-compiler to install a 32-bit package on x86-64. < 1320175943 595305 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where it won't automagically do the x86 stuff for, say, ld.) < 1320175999 39279 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we consider XSLT+SVG+SMIL, we really just need some method of input < 1320176010 652697 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320176013 569466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's the Secret Project's startup time like? < 1320176023 565199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. how long does `secret echo hi` take < 1320176030 808928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try it < 1320176045 99769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So yay. < 1320176068 174093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have I mentioned I'm pretty sure my Kitten design solves multiarch issues completely, without having to build special "32-bit for x86-64" packages? < 1320176099 612619 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually pretty easy to do if you're not tied into the concept of "libraries go in /usr/lib/". < 1320176131 44089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.02user 0.01system 0:01.04elapsed 3PU (0avgtext+0avgdata 6960maxresident)k < 1320176131 450602 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey tiffany < 1320176132 250881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0inputs+0outputs (0major+884minor)pagefaults 0swaps < 1320176136 848492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems to be around a second < 1320176153 448075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not bad < 1320176153 920661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /usr/bin/time has really different output from bash's time, it seems… < 1320176177 148444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Libraries do go in /usr/lib in my system (sort of). < 1320176191 264198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, it's stopped leaking filesystems < 1320176193 526300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's definitely nothing like /usr/blah-linux-gnu/lib/. < 1320176202 256564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a filesystem leak is possibly one of the silliest leaks possible < 1320176216 175012 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the world really needs is a HTML version that uses a markup system other than SGML or XML < 1320176250 987836 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML5; done. < 1320176276 526694 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on SGML, that is, I think < 1320176285 141314 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1320176286 56455 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get better grammer, to do, I need < 1320176297 545439 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It uses a unique syntax. < 1320176311 663243 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML 4 was SGML-based, though nobody (and I mean nobody) actually implemented it that way. < 1320176355 809361 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I don't think there was a single reasonably complete HTML 4 implementation. < 1320176383 537601 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey GreaseMonkey < 1320176414 810806 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1320176436 625747 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite part of HTML5 is the part where it says "if someone asserted that cats were vegetables". < 1320176468 981415 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1320176492 232346 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't read most of it, so it might not be a permanent favourite part; plus it's a work-in-progress, anyway. < 1320176502 381369 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But quoted out-of-context like that it sounds delightfully nonsensical. < 1320176514 729132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the list of examples at http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-em-element < 1320176538 864949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, what I meant was, "What the world really needs is a HTML version that uses a markup system substantially different to SGML and XML" < 1320176540 252372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not really a "work-in-progress". < 1320176551 807588 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320176560 648434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WhatWG maintains the HTML "living standard", which means it doesn't get any releases and just gets updated constantly (http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/). < 1320176576 821169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: From that, the W3C are working on the HTML5 spec to be published. < 1320176590 176955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But the publication is roughly irrelevant as far as everyone else is concerned. < 1320176646 637012 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is relevant in the context of whether the W3C spec will or will not contain "cats were vegetables", though. < 1320176650 656216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare the JSON-like {"head":{"title": "Hello!"},"body":[{"p": "Hello World!"}]} to the XML-like Hello!

Hello World!

< 1320176658 503558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: True. < 1320176673 971168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: A data language is not suited for markup purposes. < 1320176685 673781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like sexprs do decently because they're lightweight enough. < 1320176687 48048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is PERFECTLY suited. < 1320176693 216903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But JSON would get incredibly noisy very quickly. < 1320176698 40861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with string quoting. < 1320176713 95896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody wants to write ten pages of heavily-nested JSON. < 1320176721 238274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a data interchange format, not anything for humans. < 1320176725 133580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But JSON is the only data language other than XML I'm familiar with < 1320176758 696069 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What is sexprs? < 1320176800 846588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :S-expressions. < 1320176808 887809 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1320176814 364431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they still have the same string-escaping problem. < 1320177006 871819 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not all to familiar with S-expressions, I'll check them out... < 1320177190 918807 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lock up because it can't find an instruction to execute within finite time (it's the execution that takes a tick, not one step of finding the instruction) < 1320177591 311976 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :S-expressions look interesting < 1320177638 830468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, rename(2) wasn't atomic on OS X until a few months ago < 1320177717 37818 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, S-expressions are handy < 1320177743 641490 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :((5:title6:Hello!)(1:p12:Hello World!)) < 1320177768 149310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... < 1320177768 753731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1320177774 211648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an s-expression. < 1320177781 453304 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going by the RDF submission < 1320177785 676516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1320177793 58847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression < 1320177802 28437 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Sexp.txt < 1320177802 424356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got submitted to and rejected by the RDF people < 1320177807 400641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that thing. < 1320177811 318901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia links to i < 1320177811 451886 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1320177812 108685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, those aren't what anyone means by "s-expressions". < 1320177814 967072 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1320177816 945852 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1320177830 69019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(html (head (title "Hello!")) (body (p "Hello world!"))) is more what I'd expect. < 1320177878 265030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1320177895 536626 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still very short < 1320178000 243652 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320178016 456346 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, sane people (most aren't) would write that as: Hello!

Hello World! < 1320178053 552012 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another thing I need a psychiatrist for < 1320178143 946397 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (valid HTML 4): Hello World! < 1320178203 740284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's any actually transactional filesystems for linux. < 1320178231 640825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet btrfs can do it. :( < 1320178240 143116 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reiser4. < 1320178283 261538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's even worse than btrfs! < 1320178312 365313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I think all I need is atomic rename(2). < 1320178338 232131 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320178339 417228 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs has "transactions". < 1320178357 435103 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not transactions in any sane sense. < 1320178365 785138 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, validator.w3c.org gives that 2 errors and 5 warning < 1320178366 689360 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1320178380 27930 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *2*? < 1320178390 717572 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I can guess. Missing doctype, missing encoding. < 1320178416 352894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Encoding error is irrelevant < 1320178420 627152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sent by correctly-configured server it won't appear < 1320178424 150463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because you used the web form < 1320178435 357613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, validator.nu is better for html5 validation than w3's < 1320178447 892632 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was discussing HTML4 as well. < 1320178449 846602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320178458 254647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, you need a doctype < 1320178474 13506 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy in HTML5. <!doctype html> < 1320178474 960616 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320178482 834959 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'document type does not allow element "P" here' < 1320178493 357417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you're validating it with the wrong standard < 1320178495 566589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<!doctype html><title>Hello!

Hello World! < 1320178497 239252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should validate fine < 1320178504 349636 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's perfect HTML5. < 1320178512 75721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might give an error about encodings that won't occur with correctly-configured server < 1320178524 293191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320178525 248554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :validates fine < 1320178527 780225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no errors < 1320178541 78149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 warnings; first one is one that always occurs with w3's html5 validator saying it's experimental < 1320178551 276644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1320178552 137185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :third one is complaining because i used direct input rather than giving a url < 1320178564 410655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :second one is an actual warning that wouldn't appear with a properly-configured server < 1320178664 307151 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs is just a ploy to distract the linux geeks with a not completely boring file system so they will stop trying to port zfs (and so that oracle can sell the zfs upgrade to anyone trying to get real work done on btrfs) < 1320178678 763278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320178707 779544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah btrfs has transactions < 1320178727 3517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nilfs2 is pretty exciting, at least it does most of what's cool about btrfs < 1320178826 690942 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really transactions. < 1320178840 820035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia said user-defined transactions but ok, that is a slightly weird wording < 1320178860 732807 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A btrfs "transaction" is saying "don't commit anything to disk until I let go". < 1320178866 302130 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one can occur at a time. < 1320178901 602344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross. < 1320178931 647594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'll have to be slightly careful about multiarch support in Kitten. < 1320178963 241057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically I'll have to use a cross-compile prefix to generate all the symlinks, can't just put them directly into [profile]/usr... < 1320178970 428014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't affect packages themselves, though. < 1320178976 991203 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1320179014 469321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALLO < 1320179023 529531 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179052 35666 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, what filesystem layout are you intending to use, anyways? < 1320179052 697863 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is Monolithic, HURD is Microlithic. < 1320179058 900924 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what the difference is. < 1320179070 992368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You finally awake! < 1320179079 770316 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Excess Flood < 1320179101 977427 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179102 30173 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1320179102 30320 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179106 221786 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm finally home :P < 1320179115 843238 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's been sleepwalking < 1320179120 294610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Depends what you mean! In terms of what the user cares about, I'm actually dropping /bin and /lib in favour of subdirectories of /usr (good reason for that, actually). < 1320179126 431982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to vice versa. < 1320179160 189388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Packages are installed Nix-style to /something/923874c23894uc98jf9sd8ff-pkgname/ and links + executable references point there too. < 1320179163 90627 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For instance: how the heck are you going to differentiate between an x86 libc.so.6 and an x86_64 libc.so.6? < 1320179175 989578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual user-exposed hierarchy being a sham, symlinks or unionfs (depends on Gregor :-P) < 1320179193 914517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: x86: /something/sdfu34nfs8498hf89hf893y4h-glibc-99.4/lib/libc.so.6 < 1320179205 565944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: x86_64: /something/asdia0de3j898w7e-glibc-99.4/lib/libc.so.6 < 1320179209 451971 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it a union makes it potentially per-process, which is sexitude. < 1320179220 634971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nix-style linking. < 1320179221 320979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, that's why I wanted to talk to you :) < 1320179237 32265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep, but I don't think Nix actually has a multiarch story in practice. Not sure. < 1320179241 276625 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179241 389086 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1320179241 441449 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179241 610382 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would potentially be willing to rewrite my cunionfs as a kernel module. < 1320179247 329796 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then /usr/lib/ will either be pointless or strange. < 1320179263 863724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It'll be used for when you use "gcc" from the command-line. < 1320179287 313296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179307 537868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I /think/ I need a way to rewrite the list of union branches while a process runs (i.e. not env-var-based). < 1320179326 569796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because when a package is installed, the user's session should see it as part of the hierarchy without a reboot :P < 1320179369 700221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I have per-user package installations, I think the simplest way is just to let me say, I dunno, CUNION_BRANCHES_FROM_FILE=/some/path, and that's read whenever the list of branches is required. But it would be nice if it only re-read the list of branches when I told it they changed, because reading them every FS operation sounds slooow. < 1320179371 72994 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BADD.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320179372 332272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320179385 869082 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320179390 522107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179425 475609 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320179430 493422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1320179460 607271 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320179460 942932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possible problem is stuff that actually breaks if you install it out of its prefix; with symlinks, it might resolve its own argv[0] and work fine, but maybe something will break if it looks normal? /However/, the files will still be in the prefix it was installed to, so programs would have to try very, very hard to break. < 1320179474 799228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. they'd have to specifically check for people "installing them outside the configured prefix", and I doubt anyone does that at runtime. < 1320179508 196924 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: C-INTERCAL checks a bunch of places, including the configured prefix, relative to the current directory, and relative to argv[0] < 1320179516 472091 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179520 4226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically speaking some things might look in their configured prefix for *other* programs. < 1320179523 707641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Yep, that's fine; it checks the configured prefix first, right? < 1320179528 274587 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember < 1320179531 305137 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably < 1320179537 202198 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, this is going to break in common usage anyways. < 1320179541 896147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, everything will work fine as long as everybody checks their configured prefix /before/ snooping around where argv[0] is. < 1320179547 947034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword before. < 1320179559 458497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that doesn't, welp, gotta patch it :P < 1320179566 384347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have relative confidence that it'll work fine. < 1320179573 633054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs that stupid probably can't handle a symlink argv[0] anyway. < 1320179652 733592 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320179870 581864 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This function looks for the skeleton and syslib, searching first the path they should be in, then the current directory, then argv[0]'s directory (if one was given). This function avoids possible buffer overflows, instead truncating filenames (and if that manages to find them, I'll be incredibly surprised). It also tries argv[0]/../lib and argv[0]/../include (where they are when running without installing). < 1320179873 261791 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there you go < 1320179882 104051 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's C-INTERCAL's algo for finding files it needs < 1320179888 207065 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"path they should be in" = configured prefix < 1320179894 295591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: thanks < 1320179958 535891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I think C-INTERCAL should handle Kitten just fine, then < 1320179973 161191 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your Haskell-fu is greater than mine. How should I structure a parser (using Parsec or whatever) that depends on past input to parse future input? < 1320180020 73151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) < 1320180034 13265 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge < 1320180037 999802 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that answer, while correct, is useless < 1320180045 277155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no, it's not < 1320180049 621157 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge`addquote < 1320180052 94614 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :705) Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge`addquote < 1320180053 239102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) :: Parser a -> (a -> Parser b) -> Parser b < 1320180061 736228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :run a parser computation, get its result < 1320180065 958751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :construct parser for rest appropriately < 1320180067 759905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what monads /do/ < 1320180073 219269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 705 < 1320180075 415801 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1320180076 930158 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say to use p to subtly change the program < 1320180077 601873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge < 1320180079 602968 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :705) Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge < 1320180091 523587 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not an intentional lie, of course < 1320180093 14495 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180094 530428 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180095 704888 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :213) Vorpal loves the sodomy. elliott, sure why not < 1320180096 22586 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180097 514090 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180097 567086 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :8) TODO: sex life < 1320180099 152487 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :44) I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly < 1320180099 463861 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180100 266796 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :510) My memory passed rest in peace sgeos memory < 1320180102 90196 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :295) anyway, no CSS editing for me right now, I fear I'd get sucked into a holy war [...] I also fear it might end up breaking one of the Graue Regulations which are rules that you get into serious trouble for breaking, that nobody knows what they are until someone breaks them < 1320180107 710933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320180112 52862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :295 isn't very funny, too verbose < 1320180115 536143 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those are very funny < 1320180118 846712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 as well < 1320180127 131893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like 44 a lot < 1320180131 878650 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1320180134 869805 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably the best there < 1320180141 836461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 or 295, what do you think? < 1320180160 368504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :295 could be split into two quotes < 1320180163 66057 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm biased, as 295 is all mine < 1320180173 557422 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure which way I'm biased < 1320180173 611265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320180176 325061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 295 < 1320180177 982423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just too long < 1320180178 493849 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1320180178 612835 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it worse, because I can't counter for it < 1320180182 446348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were two quotes, they'd probably be alright < 1320180207 368659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sound of silence is the sound of Gregor furiously working on the best unionfs the world has EVER SEEN. < 1320180211 420143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180211 928016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180212 444855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180212 966159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180213 301706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320180215 998846 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :129) alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia < 1320180218 49794 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :486) Fuck clay its only purpose is ecoration < 1320180220 203136 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :330) That's for $literals in the parser. It should maybe be atol too, but probably you shouldn't have nonterminals with more than two billion children. < 1320180221 875839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Last one. Promise I won't make it a habit.) < 1320180228 498529 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :415) You have no idea how desperately I want to avoid being a GC guy :P Every year I go to ISMM and Doug Lea gives me a bizarrely-cheery "Hello!" and I'm like "awww shit I'm in memory management" < 1320180228 635268 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :73) i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1320180239 107826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are all pretty funny. :( < 1320180242 456224 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :129 is good for a fungot quote < 1320180243 229345 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: mail me your link/ data.scm. < 1320180256 711217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol one is a classic, two Grgor ones are great < 1320180260 878775 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :415 is better than 330, but they're both good < 1320180260 957856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Sgeo's isn't that funny < 1320180270 907255 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 486's purpose? < 1320180279 24258 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you don't have to delete one if they're all good < 1320180282 456983 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't get 486 < 1320180282 674258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I think it's mostly amusing because of the in front of it < 1320180297 914353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the context was Minecraft, but imagining Sgeo ranting about clay being useless is vaguely amusing < 1320180300 950728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh < 1320180302 268535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 486 < 1320180302 896822 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: couldn't you apply that to everything Sgeo says? < 1320180304 432511 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1320180308 513771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Point < 1320180338 420667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did I mention that updating the branches must be atomic? :P < 1320180347 883613 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How tricky would it be to rig HackEgo to pretend to add everything that Sgeo says? < 1320180360 816777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo can only be made to trigger on `... < 1320180370 984372 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, very tricky. < 1320180579 922072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: OTOH HackEgo has access to the logs. < 1320180581 400996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Sgeo < 1320180592 209146 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-14.txt:06:38:16: ...Overlapping? < 1320180648 304293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ...Overlapping? < 1320180650 175106 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :704) ...Overlapping? < 1320180660 755183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is oddly funny to me < 1320180703 914934 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: odd < 1320180715 559611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320180777 304155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot awwww you're back friendship lambdabot. < 1320180816 482642 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot's a mouse now!? < 1320180847 377972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1320180849 605798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rouse. < 1320180870 286813 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever happened to friendship mouse? < 1320180897 675533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tell. < 1320180928 236929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, it was foraging in a wastebasket and I stuffed a blanket into the top. < 1320180942 721125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be comfortable < 1320180944 691864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww < 1320180945 679563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then released it outside and spent ten minutes keeping the cat away from it. < 1320180946 865148 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How thoughtful < 1320180962 498201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... not really, the blanket was just the first thing to hand. < 1320180964 385603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I be a friendship mouse. < 1320180972 253007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, friendship mouse? wtf is that < 1320180979 803194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Die. < 1320180980 470484 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because then you'd have to be in Scotland < 1320180990 745879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because you are not a mouse that is why. < 1320180998 203000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1320181004 506496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glogbot_help < 1320181014 770866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log friendship mouse < 1320181019 977485 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-01.txt:20:56:12: Ngevd, friendship mouse? wtf is that < 1320181052 778905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how relevant < 1320181073 211313 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a mouse that made friends with Phantom_Hoover < 1320181077 69441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well maybe I am a mouse? < 1320181079 872525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just SAYING. < 1320181091 51796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, as in, a computer mouse? < 1320181094 250331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for christ's sake why does that rsync hate me. < 1320181103 680650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, as in a squeaky run around get eaten by cats mouse < 1320181110 128595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, ah < 1320181122 869585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, not live I presume? < 1320181128 680959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, obviously. < 1320181129 188038 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, very live < 1320181137 94346 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't be friends with a dead mouse. < 1320181142 491827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log friendship grave < 1320181148 127039 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-10.txt:22:44:37: friendship grave < 1320181155 532741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they unhygienic? < 1320181161 349471 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in Glasgow < 1320181192 72479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-08-10 < 1320181195 49687 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I said that functional languages are better than object-oriented languages in the general case, and got downvoted to oblivion. What a surprise. < 1320181205 698858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-08-10#141057PhantomHoover < 1320181233 440585 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I was the first person to respond < 1320181236 167794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at that < 1320181240 967333 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it was evil me. < 1320181246 564477 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, he uses the nick "elliott" < 1320181257 200343 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil me is much more confident than good me < 1320181264 679165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:42: SHOW SOME MAMMALIAN SOLIDARITY < 1320181272 200508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy being locked in your mammal of solidarity. < 1320181299 829089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...eeew. < 1320181331 986093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, is that log the last appearance of lament here? < 1320181342 627398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:14:28: haskell is awful < 1320181342 796384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:15:08: hoogle is even worse than haskell < 1320181346 719984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :His final words. < 1320181367 239558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mouse got him. < 1320181383 426802 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the olympic games were in OCaml < 1320181830 856044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:07:40: aAHAHAHAHVFAFVAOEKRHF < 1320181831 199467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:07:41: I HAVE IT < 1320181831 252582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:07:44: AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1320181839 813833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The happiest five seconds of my life. < 1320182021 71441 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may create a cellular automaton < 1320182189 446730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually I might be able to omit /usr entirely... < 1320182234 847339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If everything is done per-user. < 1320182246 639499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I suppose mounting the union to /usr is nicer than ~/.blah. < 1320182254 815569 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, I already HAVE created a cellular automaton < 1320182268 384643 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Cool, your work is done. Have a beer. < 1320182287 425074 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to right it down < 1320182303 705804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wrongs it up. < 1320182333 518149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there? < 1320182335 130144 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no! < 1320182348 556705 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I need to right it down even further < 1320182368 923634 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may become my first esolang not to be Turing-Complete! < 1320182374 741679 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Numberwang isn't Turing-Complete < 1320182388 230543 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Numberwang may be harder to program in than Malbolge < 1320182416 646882 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :numberwang the game show? or is there an esolang with the name numberwang too? < 1320182433 609272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two esolangs, actually < 1320182440 520313 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of which sucks < 1320182500 716833 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other of which is a brainfuck derivaitve < 1320182639 229424 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is here < 1320182681 407726 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I kinda dislike /usr/, though. Admittedly, how you're using it is *much* better than most uses. < 1320182687 769564 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, it makes *any sense at all*. < 1320182732 619610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The alternative is making / a unionfs. < 1320182736 787951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, just... no. < 1320182741 986817 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1320182747 438699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I may create a cellular automaton < 1320182748 818754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1320182776 67075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when elliott tried to create a CA that had relativity despite knowing nothing about either. < 1320182793 518312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS GREAT < 1320182798 672276 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relativity in a CA? < 1320182803 306793 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be really strange. < 1320182806 689501 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, but strange. < 1320182817 690859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not least because the Lorentz transformation is continuous. < 1320182826 794545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't that Mark guy already do it. < 1320182827 465178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... hmm. < 1320182835 166196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wolfram guy? < 1320182838 650753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover linked me to a thesis. < 1320182847 276623 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure that not having global time references would fuck up CAs. < 1320182861 388218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, by setting v=c at all times so that it doesn't require non-integral transforms. < 1320182861 951935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah hi! tup question < 1320182872 595923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Heh. < 1320182876 120094 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Si? < 1320182878 935207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What did that end up with? < 1320182884 293087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder if I can make /etc be /usr/etc instead :-) < 1320182897 356750 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, photons moving around at c in 1D. < 1320182910 156267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Exciting./ < 1320182911 568346 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only thing barring you ought to be moronically hard-coded paths. < 1320182915 541317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/// < 1320182916 723651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simulated diffusion, and was terrible. < 1320182921 313189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, lets say I have multiple build configurations. Like different compilers, different options or whatever. Any way to handle that with one source tree in tup? Preferably a single tup upd to update all of them < 1320182924 540780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's probbly not a good idea, anyway. < 1320182935 534716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The magnetisation and entropy ones were good, though. < 1320182937 875316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, Fedora are working on unifying /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin and /usr/sbin into /usr/bin. < 1320182940 6407 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing easy *at present*. < 1320182949 86534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah okay. So there are plans? < 1320182954 700387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Variants. < 1320182959 851511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1320182960 876126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the next planned big feature. < 1320182963 364049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320182963 510853 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So close, and yet so far. < 1320182964 982816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1320182965 427842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also allows debug builds. < 1320182971 164364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1320182978 450473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug vs optimised would be nice indeed < 1320182982 64106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Shrug, I think it's decent enough, because /usr contains stuff that can be shared. < 1320182986 291713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Stuff like /etc and /var can't be. < 1320182992 551632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you unify those, /usr gains actual semantics. < 1320183022 573356 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still feel like it'd be better to lose /usr. But whatever. < 1320183039 314114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they still need /bin/sh. Because so many things would break without it. Anyway I thing that binfmt_misc might never even get stuff that starts with #! < 1320183043 774530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not certain about that < 1320183061 25632 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /bin/ will probably be a symlink to /usr/bin < 1320183064 763008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320183065 977519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1320183079 984302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (a) They're doing symlinks, but I don't think there'd be as much breakage as you expect. < 1320183090 611841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (b) ISTR testing it and it worked. < 1320183109 479091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's also nice in that with that unification, /usr can be mounted read-only. < 1320183110 729041 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: binfmt_misc goes before #!, IIRC. < 1320183118 583087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whereas things like /var can't. < 1320183118 797553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah good < 1320183130 125226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it does have some semantics as a whole. *shrug* < 1320183136 890445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having both /bin and /usr/bin is criminally stupid, though. < 1320183136 944260 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, so they're giving /usr actual semantics? < 1320183147 242147 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a 6-state automaton using the Von Neumann neighbourhood, this is surprisingly tedious < 1320183148 845656 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Things that can be shared and needn't be written to in normal operation"? < 1320183156 824439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Basically, "subset of distribution". < 1320183161 109760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unix system resources" and all that. < 1320183170 447305 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's at least not devoid of a point. < 1320183171 859766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it makes sense for boot stuff, when /usr is separate. I know that is not so popular these days < 1320183178 268238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope < 1320183185 392898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That doesn't work nowadays < 1320183188 788689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well there is initramfs to mount /usr I guess < 1320183193 591512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of udev, primarily < 1320183197 298912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it still works on arch. barely. < 1320183209 522460 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch probably takes extra effort to make it work. < 1320183210 394378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Except that the failures it causes are mostly silent < 1320183213 686240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't really know at all :-) < 1320183221 304222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, we have initramfs so it's basically pointless nowadays. < 1320183229 309257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it causes about 4 udev rules to fail, and no visible side effects from them < 1320183240 555253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How reassuring! < 1320183243 820348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway it is trivial to solve this from initramfs. Instead of mounting just /, mount / and /usr < 1320183250 31992 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320183252 42671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that provides backward compat < 1320183252 176209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, obviously. < 1320183312 186832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm going to write my own initramfs to do this. Should be trivial, throw in busybox, a few helper tools for raid, lvm and mounting as required, then write /init to mount / and /usr < 1320183324 450359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it mostly works without initramfs for me currently < 1320183343 46034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unless having an initramfs disable some sort of fallback code in the kernel, it should be trivial < 1320183345 244247 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. Is Fedora also knocking out /lib? < 1320183359 576735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume so < 1320183361 659918 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modulo ld.so?) < 1320183363 534941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That isn't in the specific plan I read, but they might be. < 1320183372 28399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is going to break a lot < 1320183377 526291 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1320183381 605784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: With a symlink? < 1320183387 852459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay, that solves it < 1320183388 216037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even without, it wouldn't break much if you kept ld.so. < 1320183393 253611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The only hard-coded library path, in general, is ld.so. < 1320183394 961973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that Nix doesn't even have /lib/ld.so. < 1320183398 868792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why they have elfpatch :P < 1320183411 713855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so a binary from a different system won't even run on nixos? < 1320183417 466296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why they have elfpatch :P < 1320183419 620992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320183425 958755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to check that out < 1320183433 338724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It safely rewrites the dynamic linker and RPATH. < 1320183436 860783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of an ELF. < 1320183466 97742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott iirc it is quite hard to add RPATH unless there already is one there < 1320183476 445307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm NOT going to switch unless nwn and so on work flawlessly < 1320183489 642830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It handles growing the ELF; and nobody cares what you switch to. < 1320183495 507490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, chroots exist. < 1320183539 818848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel cfunge is ready to go autoconf (this will require replacing a lot of custom cmake code, like checking for warning flags and what not)+tup once variants are supported < 1320183563 934834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge hasn't even seen a release for three years, to my knowledge. < 1320183581 215841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nor has tup. It is fetch from vcs now < 1320183630 345030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, I'm thinking about using a zipper for shiro's fungespace. < 1320183672 50225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm interesting < 1320183685 432247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which package on nixos is elfpatch in < 1320183698 603032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nixos.org/patchelf.html < 1320183706 795188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would presume "patchelf". < 1320183714 3370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you said elfpatch above < 1320183715 814141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not patchelf < 1320183727 665303 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a tool where you can give it some examples of what a cellular automaton does and it tries to figure it out? < 1320183811 957268 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320183834 23224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: a brain < 1320183851 283107 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1320183873 823955 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where can I get one? < 1320183894 103402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try having kids. < 1320183922 774516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asexual, remember < 1320183939 79316 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to adopt < 1320183976 829633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that was the: joke. < 1320183985 417088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did PH go. < 1320183992 260619 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume bed < 1320184003 721276 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found a bit where I don't know what would happen... < 1320184039 47555 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320184170 403948 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, my solution makes the initial state "X" in a field of " " stable. < 1320184177 564526 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ends up in a four-tick cycle < 1320184243 742037 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this cellular automaton is pretty lame < 1320184249 813855 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No spaceships, no guns < 1320184265 368740 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No steamboats < 1320184318 585949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't know that. < 1320184386 710764 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No character makes more life than is needed to create it < 1320184419 925517 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are cases where life can be destroyed < 1320184434 431473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1320184446 708618 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I think I /can/ know that < 1320184459 84604 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spaceship one is just a conjecture < 1320184461 652457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you just tried a few configurations and decided that :P < 1320184544 196443 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Conway's game of life Turing Complete when on a hyperbolic plane? < 1320184759 345553 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for "Probably" < 1320185338 755576 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320185342 128212 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1320185517 458625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait have I even told you about the best part of my Kitten design YOU ARE SO MISSING OUT < 1320185681 729994 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have a finite Morphy number < 1320185987 243406 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320185998 52330 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1320186000 203162 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did a game of Q20, trying for "Befunge" < 1320186003 57878 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got "Email" < 1320186164 964926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got Chess set in 18 questions < 1320186216 999289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, Q20? < 1320186222 196542 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :20q.net < 1320186294 82021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320186307 293180 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think so. < 1320186326 809148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The package manager is the service manager. < 1320186331 968589 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1320186342 334688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait did I tell you that. < 1320186346 573530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I so don't remember telling you that. < 1320186348 941423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is the best idea. < 1320186353 845185 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You talked about it rather a lot. < 1320186357 831631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN < 1320186360 268289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta get something new < 1320186370 598877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention I was considering making the package manager teh build system too??? < 1320186381 646029 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Kitten? < 1320186384 353477 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it seems only natural if you're going to do things right. < 1320186399 864082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=w&q=kitten&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=675&sei=%208XGwTujlBMfHsgbSzOh_ < 1320186474 99846 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238] < 1320186577 846721 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitten would get on with friendship mouse, methinks < 1320186909 79505 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Lymia < 1320186909 508313 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have a lower than average Morphy number < 1320186999 935368 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia... sounds oddly familiar < 1320187050 322060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morphy number < 1320187068 565225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, Lymia was what she was called originally. < 1320187072 493236 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1320187083 20762 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Morphy number is a bit like a Bacon number, but with Chess < 1320187087 213244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1320187109 7378 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's to someone who lived in the 1800's < 1320187119 426627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So people generally have bigger Morphy numbers < 1320187149 51649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What they should do with these is, whenever 0 dies, everyone's number decreases by one. < 1320187159 275240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be more sustainable :p < 1320187188 958354 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played an IM at chess once < 1320187192 818787 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost really badly, ofc < 1320187221 668947 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably means I have a reasonable Morphy number < 1320187229 10315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my uncle taught someone how to play chess, who ended up being really good < 1320187231 795778 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as IMs and GMs have a tendency to all play each other < 1320187260 940452 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he ended up being Australia's second Grand Master or something < 1320187291 640112 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, maybe in terms of chess, I have a low ais523 number < 1320187469 997914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how high my cpressey number is < 1320187488 716183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of esolangs collaborated on < 1320187510 348994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity. < 1320187519 584392 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Have you collaborated with anyone?) < 1320187532 526666 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of not really zzo38 < 1320187551 543967 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think one can be said to collaborate with zzo. < 1320187590 605600 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There needs to be more esoteric collaborations < 1320187703 948571 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan helped a lot with Numberwang < 1320187892 529203 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320187912 309931 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1320187932 481441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1320187933 597063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320188037 425210 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello centrinia < 1320188047 840278 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Ngevd. < 1320188066 830625 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1320188068 229761 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1320188070 436290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found < 1320188076 618944 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that's a great welcome < 1320188078 538738 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?welcome < 1320188080 964595 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome: not found < 1320188097 626566 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320188100 268736 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320188109 109722 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. :) < 1320188121 500240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just do that to centrinia every time they come in < 1320188128 8267 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typos included? < 1320188130 612483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1320188134 507181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's becoming tradition < 1320188147 324828 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many times has it happened? < 1320188149 953159 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 1? < 1320188161 13034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think i messed it up yesterday too < 1320188168 837307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be wrong < 1320188200 46741 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a very loose definition of "collaborated", I have a Pressey number of 3, I think < 1320188255 1234 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I collaborated with rjan Johansen on Numberwang < 1320188274 494663 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rjan Johansen collaborated with Ben Olmstead on Malbolge Unshackled < 1320188283 463829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO collaboration < 1320188294 577943 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you poor man < 1320188315 243942 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ben Olmstead collaborated with Chris Pressey on Wierd < 1320188324 400776 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, only the last of those really counts < 1320188443 943608 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't really have many esolang collaborations, I'm more of a solo esolanger < 1320188449 569225 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "FSVO"? < 1320188453 748302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes < 1320188490 267202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : With a very loose definition of "collaborated" < 1320188560 866562 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forgot to mention, my erds number is now 4 < 1320188583 802240 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wow! do you know the chain? < 1320188606 481236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, jarkko kari, christopher morre, leonard j schulman, erds < 1320188612 720768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moore < 1320188626 870774 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-246.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320188646 734367 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-48.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320188649 341028 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually solved some of moore's open problems at some point so maybe he'd be interested in collaborating < 1320188665 894661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because i'd have 3- < 1320188667 682139 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1320188720 576951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hope you get to 0 someday < 1320188749 26529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to exhume erdős' grave, then use alchemical voodoo to merge his spirit and corpse with yours) < 1320188768 574056 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm i guess technically i'll have an erds number on 21., it's http://www.springer.com/computer/theoretical+computer+science/book/978-3-642-24896-2 < 1320188769 744754 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alchemical voodoo"? < 1320188771 595425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this has only been done three times in history, each time being swiftly followed by the murder of the mathematician involved) < 1320188812 347960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ping :-P < 1320188816 439938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't even mention my name anywhere in there, fuckers < 1320188846 983616 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BY THE MATHS POLICE!!!!) < 1320188869 868894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320188930 878696 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there should be more esolang collaborations < 1320188934 613002 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants a Pressey number below 5? < 1320188952 978693 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fine with an oklopol number of 0 < 1320189049 375268 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an oklopol number of 1 < 1320189065 292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one are you counting < 1320189070 909218 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clue (oklopol version) < 1320189076 66588 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1320189082 336111 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1320189118 177940 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even better, that means i have wolfram number 2 < 1320189158 312997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no no no, you mean gamma < 1320189173 711361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha is actually just wolfram himself chained to a computer < 1320189187 814407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wait, how was that a collaboration? < 1320189189 972984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving the page? :P < 1320189192 496460 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the only collaboration with Wolfram /himself/ that I've done is pointing out a bug in his proof for the 2,5, and fixing it < 1320189198 980056 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pm stuff < 1320189199 248390 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we discussed it in PM a lot < 1320189204 853377 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1320189204 907564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320189217 828271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be why it sucked so much before i got to it OH BURRRRRRN < 1320189223 896711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you all yr. welcome < 1320189225 359337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1320189229 418873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm here all week < 1320189288 586807 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is going to be my best esolang ever, isn't it :( < 1320189307 528798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: most likely. < 1320189312 424796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you will spend the rest of your life trying to surpass it. < 1320189329 346816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your deathbed people will offer comfort. no, no, feather "failed prototype version" was very good. < 1320189331 509101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they lie. < 1320189331 880733 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resists making a feather joke < 1320189332 925536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all lies. < 1320189334 107171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1320189340 198283 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...? < 1320189360 439302 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think all the good feather jokes have been done < 1320189360 738797 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hi Gregor < 1320189381 727305 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feather <<= /dev/null < 1320189383 779922 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that's a feather joke < 1320189386 423451 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that got rid of it < 1320189392 91772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Re cunionfs: < 1320189392 167422 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would, if I had feather working < 1320189392 398604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:28:27: Gregor: I /think/ I need a way to rewrite the list of union branches while a process runs (i.e. not env-var-based). < 1320189392 452520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:28:46: Gregor: Because when a package is installed, the user's session should see it as part of the hierarchy without a reboot :P < 1320189392 452708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:29: Since I have per-user package installations, I think the simplest way is just to let me say, I dunno, CUNION_BRANCHES_FROM_FILE=/some/path, and that's read whenever the list of branches is required. But it would be nice if it only re-read the list of branches when I told it they changed, because reading them every FS operation sounds slooow. < 1320189435 923470 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I had considered ways of communicating changes at runtime. I was thinking about a sysfs-esque pseudofile. < 1320189469 531137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right. The problem with having one file per process is that I'd have to write to hundreds of fakefiles /atomically/. < 1320189488 293683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is impossible :P < 1320189523 389582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess a simple way to do it is to start most processes set to inherit the branches from their parent? < 1320189539 79156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'd just have to rewrite the branch list of their login shell or whatever, which could be done atomically. < 1320189549 217143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering about ways to do it. < 1320189583 831496 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought was basically just replacing the way the env var works with the pseudofile. If you don't touch it, you inherit it from your parent, otherwise you can change it at any time. < 1320189588 363194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the UNIX way, after all. < 1320189651 658027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought the inheritance was done by just inheriting the env var at startup time in the current thing. < 1320189651 788125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking the file would contain either "inherit" or a list of branches, and start at "inherit" unless started in some special way. But yeah, whatever works. < 1320189665 849245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as I can replace the branches of a process tree atomically :P < 1320189677 87098 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, remember the pseudofile is a PSEUDO-file. It doesn't have file semantics. < 1320189685 490259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1320189712 172822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know aufs does stuff in /sys/fs/aufs/, I think. < 1320189798 975431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, yeah, it would be super-great and I'm willing to help out however but I'm probably limited by having no experience with kernel modules at all :P < 1320189885 613509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Out of curiosity, how would you start a process with a different branch set with that model? Would it be sourced from an env var if present (defaulting to inherit) to start with? < 1320190053 985882 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say you'd have to fork, then change the file, then exec. < 1320190063 459183 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320190068 432076 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to keep it as simple as possible without making security impossible :P < 1320190094 574871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that'd be reasonable. < 1320190177 289604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know how much flexibility you have with files in Linux. < 1320190184 214286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it just be a case of "changes only take effect on close()"? < 1320190231 41167 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1320190251 275159 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, otherwise it would be really difficult to know when you care or not. Or it could be exposed as a character device instead of a block device and be per-line or something. < 1320190311 473482 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wow, it's a binary day < 1320190366 3435 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: 2 is not a binary digit and it won't be a binary for 7,989 years. < 1320190371 626395 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a binary day < 1320190391 283219 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-246.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Lazy people use 2-digit years. < 1320190392 860804 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: isn't the century/millennium normally omitted? < 1320190398 966321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Per-line breaks paths with \n :) < 1320190405 65201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would just NUL-separate it. < 1320190405 672186 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-246.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :01-11-11 :) < 1320190411 478849 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, binary days aren't likely to happen ever because binary wasn't invented in 1111 and probably won't be in use by 10000 < 1320190426 491179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUL-terminate, rather. < 1320190448 901099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: weird definition of probably, also of happen < 1320190450 915630 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-246.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: "Probably"? I'd say that the year 10,000 is too far off for us to even say that much. < 1320190459 262155 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Either way, I think enact-on-close makes sense, though I wonder how it interacts with fopen/fclose (probably just fine) < 1320190465 974316 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will be using unary < 1320190469 467654 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-246.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with "and we can't even make guesses about 10,000" < 1320190472 19496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, it seems reasonable. < 1320190489 864026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm just super-paranoid about atomicity wrt inheriting from the parent process, but I guess it'll all work out fine. < 1320190504 209351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As opposed to my only moderate paranoia about performance :P) < 1320190523 410012 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It just has to be atomic w.r.t. exec ... < 1320190544 103243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. Consider mutating a parent process. < 1320190548 665266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The child process has to inherit those changes. < 1320190771 545171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or were you intending inheritance to only inherit from the values present at fork-time? < 1320190881 424083 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhhhhh, only at fork time. < 1320190894 755778 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lawd, I'm not trying to communicate some whole hideous tree here ... < 1320190906 849245 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to have one global master, the per-process. < 1320190910 509202 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1320190913 197163 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to have one global master, then per-process. < 1320190968 866370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The problem is, like I said, that I need atomic updates... < 1320191010 77153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The user's login shell has 10 child processes in a tree; one of them has its own branch list, but the rest are inherited. I need to update the login shell's branch list /and all its inheriting childrens' branch lists/ atomically. < 1320191046 577658 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your process-tree model is making things needlessly complicated. < 1320191054 92871 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two ideas: < 1320191114 166152 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) You have a global configuration, per-user configuration, and per-process configuration. Per-process configuration is inherited as described, global and per-user are both inherited atomically when the relevant configurations are changed (it doesn't have to be particularly atomic to guarantee these semantics, it just has to invalidate a bunch of caches). < 1320191149 900750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what if I had the login shell's union list be /some/other/union < 1320191154 432237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had the rest inherit from that < 1320191156 882838 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Per-process configuration, where entries can be paths /or/ some way to specify inheritance. < 1320191156 935657 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320191158 646611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just modified /some/other/union's branch list < 1320191167 796513 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's interesting. < 1320191172 744580 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) What you just said :P < 1320191180 863568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (2) seems nicer to me than (1), though; it's inherently more flexible :P < 1320191190 981593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320191195 196988 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) seems nicer to me than (2), as it fits the model better. < 1320191211 61522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually, (4): Instead of a branch list, /every/ process just has a pointer to a branch list. < 1320191217 397317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The branch list is an atomically-modifiable pseudofile. < 1320191226 98067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gives (3) without duplicating mounts all over the place. < 1320191241 695704 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't give you inheritance if you also have changes. < 1320191243 643578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the pointer is inherited, etc. < 1320191250 764739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes it does: you just modify the branch list. < 1320191254 924612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything pointing to it gets the updates. < 1320191274 195356 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean this: < 1320191307 161646 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :B is a child of A. B adds /foo to its branch list, but it doesn't want to change A's, so it just makes a new one and sets it to the content of the original plus /foo. Now A changes its branch list, but B can't see the change. < 1320191327 56064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320191358 347908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a usecase for that? :P ...oh, I just thought of one: you say: < 1320191367 80881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ with 'gcc == 3.*' sh < 1320191370 641169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[subsh]$ do-thing < 1320191373 278142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1320191379 192899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[at this point, some other library is updated in the host system] < 1320191385 685643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[subsh]$ do-another-thing < 1320191391 783970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...but do-another-thing is still using the old version! this sucks] < 1320191398 923315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So yeah, I agree that's desirable. < 1320191402 216705 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't think it's such an unimaginable situation, and (2) and (3) both give you that. < 1320191410 918547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT, B also has to be able to /remove/. < 1320191419 540387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the shell from which "with" is run has its own gcc in scope. < 1320191424 647320 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I'm not sure how to handle that in any of these semantics. < 1320191434 952561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the subsh has to have "remove , add ", but what if you upgrade the outside gcc while it's still running? < 1320191453 360891 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh ... remove by pattern match? *brain axplote* < 1320191498 682547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hideous :P < 1320191510 796660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What I /really/ need is to have my package manager calculate the branch lists :P < 1320191529 623343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But, ehh... OK, how about this: Every process has an explicit, mutable, no-inheritance list of branches. < 1320191544 484177 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320191547 572803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: /But/, instead of updating on close(), you "queue up" PIDs to update the branch lists of in another file, then close that. < 1320191550 992908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The updates happen atomically. < 1320191564 982398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, I can just recalculate the branches for all the constraints and the like, and update 'em atomically. < 1320191827 531592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (I'm aware this is kind of ugly :P) < 1320191842 462378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, wait, it can be ten times simpler than that... just have a file where you open, write a pid, write a list of branches, repeat, and it commits on close(). < 1320191943 230174 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes inheritance with changes possible, but massively difficult ... < 1320191962 814863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No? The whole point is that an external package manager is going to be calculating which directories to add. < 1320191972 841340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So if you do "with 'gcc == 3.*' ...", it'll store that that process wants gcc == 3.*. < 1320191986 949928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever the global package DB is updated, it just calculates packages + constraint --> branches again and writes 'em all out. < 1320191993 711290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already has to do that logic in the first place. < 1320192186 302705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, it's more work on whatever's driving cunionfs, but I think achieving the same without something this generic is basically impossible. < 1320192552 855980 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-220.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320192561 534545 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-246.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320193346 93286 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: About how easy do you think creating a package is going to be with kitten? (please say trivial) < 1320193371 749056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Like, three, four lines for a GNU package? < 1320193392 8774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add another one to that if it's "GNU-ish" (autotools and the like) but not a GNU package (so you have to specify a tarball location). < 1320193400 79812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, trivial. < 1320193411 918456 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nothing obscene like ebuilds, or Debian. Good. < 1320193466 257537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it'll get longer if you specify your own configuration options and the like (packages have configs in Kitten). < 1320193479 104363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a little longer if there's a service. < 1320193495 653154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And /ideally/ if there's configuration you should expose that so it can all be done in a unified manner, but... < 1320193500 271149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, four lines for simple stuff. < 1320194116 382843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : # For UML and non-PC, just ignore all options that don't apply (We are lazy). < 1320194116 475214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ignoreConfigErrors = (userModeLinux || stdenv.platform.name != "pc"); < 1320194116 475386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pro < 1320194819 914292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1320195338 839860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1320195344 287607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1320195483 923562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1320195543 781271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1320195559 337559 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320195564 37061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1320195569 847840 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-220.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320195579 335376 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1320195590 787189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no uyuo ruined it < 1320195600 608201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1320195607 500396 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, that uyuo. < 1320195622 466201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a spoilsport < 1320195797 401818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mezzacotta comic is ominous today. < 1320196036 473236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1320196044 837763 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol hi < 1320196056 363385 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1320196065 464948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1320196659 856445 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wins < 1320196702 432582 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320197160 811692 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. There's organizations advocating the use of romaji or kana for Japanese writing exclusively. < 1320197173 649430 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They themselves publish their material in standard Japanese script. < 1320197178 557695 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1320197319 349027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if they published it in more than one form it would be ok... < 1320197352 908338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to do marketing if the audience doesn't understand you :P < 1320197382 996775 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially every Japanese speaker can read romaji or kana. < 1320197418 817248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as easily as standard format? < 1320197436 946671 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romaji is just the Latin alphabet, as used for romanization of Japanese, and kana is the phonetic script used in Japanese, in conjunction with Chinese characters. < 1320197469 721408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wouldn't be sort of like funetikal inglish, wer yu kan rid it but it is slow an awkward? < 1320197476 436456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it be < 1320197497 186236 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be slow and awkward like funetikal inglish, yes. < 1320197512 60943 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For much the same reasons, in fact. < 1320197549 603883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1320197574 280233 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1320197578 650258 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, of course, that romaji and kana are actually *taught* in public education, as knowledge of both are necessary for literacy. :) < 1320197607 743680 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i press half- < 1320197609 765079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :baked < 1320197616 85097 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then realize this is the best comic ever < 1320197617 43649 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1281-04-18&vote=3 < 1320197656 722679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no you made me vote 3 < 1320197682 334526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did? < 1320197698 724180 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also doesn't help that the current linguistic trends are in the *opposite* direction from what they advocate. Japanese is slowly but surely increasing the amount of kanji used. :) < 1320197707 817575 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or it just said "thanks for helping us bake this comic" < 1320197710 862192 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just weird < 1320197721 896553 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lolol < 1320197737 127411 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah don't press that link ppl :D < 1320197738 846214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :better clip off the part from & on < 1320197754 221337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1281-04-18 BETTER LINK < 1320197756 128117 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1281-04-18 BETTER LINK < 1320197756 431951 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1281-04-18 BETTER LINK < 1320197756 672955 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1281-04-18 BETTER LINK < 1320197762 680436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST IN CASE < 1320197769 370966 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE READS THE LOGS IN ORDER < 1320197802 495991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll balance it out with a 2 >:) < 1320197818 542726 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1320198091 585011 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1748-04-04 < 1320198237 286221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes good < 1320198405 16575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that from the hall of fame, istr it or a similar one < 1320198476 303550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is < 1320199076 904922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smells a monthly windows update check < 1320199707 146877 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320200267 648305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or not < 1320200992 771994 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320200992 863415 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1320200992 863558 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1320201374 856417 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please note that I also have no experience with kernel modules :P < 1320201740 457231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh dear :P < 1320201774 980601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's especially worrying considering that unionfs and aufs are both large codebases :P < 1320201818 676276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1320201821 329022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that large, but still. < 1320201975 513325 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly I don't think it would be wise to start from an existing codebase. Dynamic per-process union is in some ways fundamentally different from static (or changeable only for all processes) per-system union ... < 1320202089 60353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh yeah I totally agree < 1320202095 813731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm just saying, hard task :P < 1320202106 757657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OTOH it's likely that the existing solutions are filled with cruft and overcomplication. < 1320202114 274762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's probably not worth worrying too much about it :P < 1320202269 239835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, if you have any ideas for atomic branch-changing of multiple processes that'd be nice, since the only interfaces I can think of are kinda ugly... < 1320202586 445664 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles for "how to write a kernel module", because that's how he rolls. < 1320202699 261952 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320202789 619003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the dark side of bad writing! < 1320202828 411796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Doesn't the kernel come with docs on that :P < 1320202895 345241 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, and that was the first Google result! < 1320202910 70459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You forgot to append "for dummies". < 1320202923 187467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would buy "Linux Kernel Module Writing For Dummies". < 1320202970 956004 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1320202990 143858 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall once having a book titled The Idiot's Guide for Dummies. < 1320203008 746529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain Surgery for Dummies < 1320203032 383215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier than when you're working on a smart person's brain. < 1320203173 909271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that maybe outside package updates /shouldn't/ propagate into a "with " context after all because the libblah version changing mid-build is not what you want. But I think that's wrong because, well, it's your own fault for upgrading while running a build outside of the system. < 1320203186 726581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, still needs more logic than a simple "this but with more directories" system. < 1320203777 568103 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1320204054 823612 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1320205051 492631 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320205418 668348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: There's no way to change gcc's default flags easily, right? < 1320205425 496691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I gather that modifying spec files is a huge pain < 1320205585 961625 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just spec files. < 1320205612 171763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's actually not that hard to modify a spec file after the GCC build is done. < 1320205617 24862 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a text file. < 1320205675 64517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm... where's it stored? < 1320205686 798574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What about The Complete Idiot's Guide to Dummies? < 1320205773 402220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1320205801 36307 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $prefix/lib/gcc/$tuple/$version/specs < 1320205817 831821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Dummies-Stupidity/dp/1580081746 < 1320205824 648794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ls: cannot access /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.6.2/specs: No such file or directory < 1320205833 495970 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, a spec file is not actually installed there, and gcc uses one that's compiled in; use -dumpspecs to get that. < 1320205842 721547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1320205843 903183 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if the spec file *is* there gcc uses it instead. < 1320205848 321744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :%{!fsyntax-only:%{!c:%{!M:%{!MM:%{!E:%{!S: %(linker) %{!fno-use-linker-plugin:%{flto|flto=*|fuse-linker-plugin: -plugin %(linker_plugin_file) -plugin-opt=%(lto_wrapper) -plugin-opt=-fresolution=%u.res %{!nostdlib:%{!nodefaultlibs:%:pass-through-libs(%(link_gcc_c_sequence))}} }} %{flto|flto=*:% You *really* are not meant to call ld directly. < 1320206289 564304 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1320206308 371539 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: For general-purpose "building a normal program" use, I mean. < 1320206330 531726 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, if you're doing, well, anything more complicated then you should. < 1320206371 75311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how coppro quoted something literally two lines up < 1320206394 172741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the best example of a good time to use ld is building a kernel. < 1320206425 767286 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose you *could* go through the compiler frontend there, it's really acting as a giant no-op. < 1320206537 534698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Tell me clang has a better way to modify this shit than spec files < 1320206933 25696 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: -ffreestanding, dawg < 1320206975 945975 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BAH < 1320206999 808441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, I wonder if I am sold on Nix's runtime dependency model < 1320207044 275880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have any false positives, but I'm not entirely convinced it has no false negatives either < 1320207133 691382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved the atomic branch change problem Gregor, you just need to write it as an @ module and you'll get atomicity FOR FREE :| < 1320207138 865519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION helpful < 1320208066 936383 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know what spec files are < 1320208069 308875 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I dunno < 1320208091 152662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How'd I build clang to use a different path to the dynamic linker < 1320208100 893053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specs files are http://sprunge.us/IDUC :P < 1320208419 199462 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, ok, not quite that bad I don't think < 1320208422 596561 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kinda bad < 1320208440 285627 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Driver/Driver.cpp or DriverOpts or something is where that is processed < 1320208443 519813 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all hardcoded < 1320208469 394871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well it's easy with gcc too if i patch the source :P < 1320209046 856997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Bah, I might need to make / a unionfs after all < 1320209120 333534 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320209248 629829 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320209328 338660 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320210045 325300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the C library function system() has a hard-coded reference to /bin/sh." < 1320210047 425616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc, friends. glibc. < 1320210133 320581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so very glib, c < 1320210152 197241 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, who has libc.so ? < 1320210161 660087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssssssssssssh < 1320210168 802460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't talk about that here < 1320210175 546294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Gregor ;D < 1320210230 518190 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. I'm not sure what it could do other than be compiled with a reference to the shell. < 1320210242 685120 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, it should be a configuration option. < 1320210273 437211 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320210304 364942 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened with libm.so, that's Gregor's right? < 1320211158 659687 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I have libdl.so. < 1320211218 840196 :bd_!~nanashi@satoko.is.fushizen.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320211223 733262 :bd_!~nanashi@satoko.is.fushizen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320212777 879466 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1320213748 880064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I think the Secret Project actually does help me immensely. < 1320213758 138882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is worrying; I now depend on both ais523 and Gregor. < 1320214298 893442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should really look forward to the near future, wherein you get to deal with me implementing a lazy functional language from scratch < 1320214299 655462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1320214322 372359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can help a lot with laziness, yes < 1320214369 330344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap.e < 1320214443 530175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow oerjan is snape my typoes lead to discoverieres < 1320214544 383428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man tcb passwords will fit so well with this system. so well. < 1320214632 843052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm! since nix is like a functional make, i wonder what a functional tup would look like... oh ... wait ... oh god < 1320214638 26022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: tup is the upstart of build systems < 1320214720 993520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ quick be mortified with me < 1320214739 394302 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Dear. < 1320214762 380109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally based on the events-over-dependencies model oh god tup cannot handle only building some targets. < 1320214780 539578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan I need to get very, very drunk help me out here do you have alcohol in Trondheim I have booked a plane ticket. < 1320214833 587401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, tup can handle only building some targets. < 1320214848 23894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: How? < 1320214872 533341 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea on the implementation details, but "tup upd foo" will only build foo and its dependencies. < 1320214897 585396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I suspect it marks what targets every target "contributes" to in the DB. < 1320214911 561414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... just an emulation of the dependency model, fast only because it's cached. < 1320214993 704398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, it's just ten times as expensive as in england, is all < 1320215012 398671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh don't worry. i won't be needing my money any more. < 1320215053 678566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o kay < 1320215058 60709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 How does the Secret Project handle scheduling being non-deterministic? < 1320215058 397537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320215085 813083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 Also, what kind of incredibly rough time estimate would you give for an open-source release of working code? < 1320215086 79758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320215325 720332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw i am dead serious about looking forward to the near future. you are going to have so much fun. < 1320215352 428752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D >:D >:D> :D>:D> :D> :SD: S:A"|D: AS"|d; < 1320215421 833574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombie smilies < 1320215488 390593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo nixos-jfp-final.pdf is so short i have already read it all < 1320215494 147369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you betrayed me paper < 1320215518 143743 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6554331/Papers_from_Philosophical_Transactions_of_the_Royal_Society__fro < 1320215521 867960 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun. < 1320215536 68919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big........ < 1320215568 535417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT WAIT WHAT THAT MAKES NO SENSE. < 1320215606 166876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/atoms/5a/10/ce/6b/5a10ce6be873ac8fc50583ea7bddb9.jpg ;; this ad.................. < 1320215616 848679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET YET GENETICALLY MODIFIED WOMEN WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO SAY "NO" < 1320215620 175781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/YET/YER/ < 1320215638 866231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sorry but my internet is adfree < 1320215647 355261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing out on so much < 1320215651 879003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ads have become truly surreal lately < 1320215659 12281 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, when I try to pull up that image in a tab by itself < 1320215664 820452 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :adblock removes it. < 1320215667 672914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I clicked that < 1320215673 942106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trying to make your life worse. < 1320215675 707522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turned into a blank tab. so I had to refresh rapidly to see it. < 1320215729 462876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know it's pretty nice. I go to websites and only see typical internet shit < 1320215745 730418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of all this other, lower-quality internet shit around the top, bottom, and sides. < 1320215772 838120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of forgot that thepiratebay had ads, actually. < 1320215792 975257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does facebook have ads? < 1320215814 249406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few. < 1320215861 90241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, they're still trying to prosecute aaron swartz? < 1320215875 427349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :prose. cute. < 1320215882 846984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ? < 1320215893 752062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I read prosecute after looking at it again. < 1320215915 472187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320215951 791450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaron Swartz is a heroic swashbuckler of the internet. < 1320215975 58484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of guybrush threepwood < 1320216148 314242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...who? < 1320216160 916200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake "too lazy to google" propoojweijwei2kker < 1320216197 505556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1320216213 702491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who doesn't know who guybrush threepwood is lives a very sad life < 1320216219 715592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and needs to play the first two monkey island games < 1320216232 832918 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1320216236 585533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(third is decent, laters are crap) < 1320216241 990374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays CALL OF DOOTY BLACK OP ZOMBIES FUCK YEAAAAAH < 1320216245 67072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no. you _really_ need to. < 1320216247 700042 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also dwarf fortress. < 1320216264 508118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ron gilbert is judging you. tim schafer is judging you. < 1320216267 730628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel their judgment. < 1320216278 815010 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. < 1320216294 831539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even heard a mutter from schafer. he thinks you probably haven't even played grim fandango. i don't think he likes you any more, CakeProphet/. < 1320216305 935615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally snake is the best game ever made. < 1320216309 740593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only with no walls. < 1320216315 349856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wraparound screen. < 1320216333 878098 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fascinating and telling metaphor for hubris. < 1320216432 86977 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the walls ruin the game completely. < 1320216457 949602 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it confines you. it's no longer just about your vainglorious lust for little square pixel foods. < 1320216481 862155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though anyone who hasn't played the first two Monkey Island games has lead an incomplete life. < 1320216652 173117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet thinks I'm joking; I'm not joking. < 1320216770 71969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you play amazon trail? < 1320216777 930561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that game was better. < 1320216793 50195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm going to rip your limbs apart. < 1320216807 581858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP YWROUIER;SDF WEHT LIMBS FKGOP < 1320216846 362755 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The score largely consists of reggae, Caribbean and dub-inspired music. < 1320216863 275074 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lights a blunt and plays some Monkey Island. < 1320216902 246115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, new homestuck. time to sleep. < 1320216916 144015 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1320216917 429551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: play the secret of monkey island for fuck's sake. download scummvm. you can find the thing on any site. get the cd version so you get the mt-32 score. < 1320216922 67497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it. < 1320216935 299019 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll totally do that, howeve < 1320216935 930217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1320216942 851886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not tell you anything about my gameplay experience. < 1320217129 932238 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1320217219 520255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1320217263 739807 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I feel like dedicating my whole life to the creation of perfect video games. < 1320217528 204995 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1320217535 519525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blind Psychic Kung Fu Master < 1320217543 627241 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which you play a... blind psychic Kung Fu master. < 1320217567 889824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play the game entirely with audio cues. < 1320217612 107337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have sound-based psychic senses that you can use, like sonar. < 1320217738 267401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a slow-motion power in which you fine-tune your highly trained kung fu master reflexes for a brief while. < 1320217798 47561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also but there will be spectacular epic fight cutscenes. < 1320217807 141888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no graphics. < 1320217944 258488 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there could be some kind of helpful visual interface. < 1320217951 868306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea would be that the entire game is playable by a blind person. < 1320218064 603223 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Epdeet < 1320218067 991682 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updoot < 1320218077 520473 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW NOW NOW < 1320218126 545250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1320218149 394868 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1320218150 587855 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to wait 5 years from now after he finishes the whole thing < 1320218157 937557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just read/watch/play all of homestuck. < 1320218167 52510 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just. Watch. Now. < 1320218172 350289 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noooooooow < 1320218185 434179 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine. < 1320218537 936231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :longest load screen ever. < 1320218941 454192 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you've seen it by now? < 1320218962 230890 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean as the loader of the intermission? < 1320218976 227253 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. you're joking) < 1320219153 40296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cascade < 1320219154 957148 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there's a weird bug when you click replay < 1320219158 121149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I haven't seen it. < 1320219175 512479 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you haven't seen Cascade yet? < 1320219188 999660 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go watch that, then the first [S] of the intermission < 1320219215 486490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I'm watching it right now, obviously. < 1320219218 598075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I just talked about it loading... < 1320219281 941503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude this Cascade thing must have taken forever to mak =. < 1320219365 265911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: This thing needs a reboot < 1320219794 899416 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1320220134 366856 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Homestuck update. < 1320220135 7258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320220183 613976 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Homestuck update. < 1320220184 245718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320220219 975176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I think elliott knows.. < 1320220349 720795 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see it now < 1320220359 834745 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, night all < 1320221556 662187 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320222802 2555 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320222833 969656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320222835 130225 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320224296 755103 :asw!~X@110.35.74.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320225742 160948 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1320226810 832395 :asw!~X@110.35.74.10 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320229748 690822 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229752 506692 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229753 638095 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229755 241812 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229755 636374 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-147-243.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229755 973761 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229756 358874 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:mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229790 901915 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229792 266755 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320229794 113961 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1320230011 971224 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24131 :bd___!~nanashi@satoko.is.fushizen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24272 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24351 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24431 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24600 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24676 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24757 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24913 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 24990 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-147-243.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25144 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25220 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25298 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25375 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25450 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25525 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25603 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25678 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25756 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25830 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25908 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 25983 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230012 26059 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230015 985195 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1320230020 661480 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230020 713809 :ineiros_!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230020 713868 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230039 909690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP freedom of the press < 1320230072 504633 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320230576 671945 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320231137 654209 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1320231137 706689 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320231137 706767 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1320232572 952791 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1320232611 178300 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we? :\ < 1320232743 477845 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we what? < 1320232745 159180 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is we? < 1320232761 522248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1320232790 382147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. the extradition appeal failed, so he's going to Sweden for questioning and formal charging. < 1320232851 127863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the US may try to extradite him so that they can prosecute him. Though, I believe it would be a difficult case for them. < 1320232940 100471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it strange that he's been under arrest this entire time without any formal charges. < 1320233033 939994 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just how the Swedish legal system works I guess. they don't issue formal charges until after questioning, or something. < 1320233034 695097 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320233209 848673 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320233607 721165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "Hello, World!\n" < 1320233608 336201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello, World! < 1320233650 932548 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (fun "I told you about the stairs, bro") :: Expr < 1320233651 715757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : I told you about the stairs, bro (I told you about the stairs, bro (I told ... < 1320234549 8992 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320234570 610185 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320234647 160114 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1320234647 212497 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320235290 385327 :Ernestas14!~ernestux2@88-119-152-235.static.zebra.lt JOIN :#esoteric < 1320235300 708202 :Ernestas14!~ernestux2@88-119-152-235.static.zebra.lt PART :#esoteric < 1320236545 798839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1320236974 994908 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: back to 3d < 1320237556 383901 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320237813 488289 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320237838 809528 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320238927 758150 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320241273 178825 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320243037 492842 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320243139 723746 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320243164 961289 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320243171 889667 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :500) _ | |__ _ _ ___ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | |_) | |_| | __/ |_.__/ \__, |\___| < 1320243181 722237 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what a great quote < 1320243200 838360 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320243224 500144 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 500 < 1320243226 920129 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1320243230 643554 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320243233 34177 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :596) well, oerjan has a lot of opinions on this, so I'll hand it over to him < 1320243235 492564 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A part was missing < 1320243238 925382 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it was a typo < 1320243244 117464 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as ... the funny part? < 1320243266 745577 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320243268 300420 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I find something like 1% of the existing quotes funny < 1320243279 924127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because you are: terrible. < 1320243280 157558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1320243281 105460 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've given up caring about that < 1320243288 650256 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320243291 245166 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :404) hey fhet's zeees OouooH SNEP IT'S A FOooCKING TIGER < 1320243711 485415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit HackEgo, stop letting down the side. < 1320244423 663480 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1320246445 436592 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320246612 667752 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320246931 221716 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1320247161 264990 :bd___!~nanashi@satoko.is.fushizen.net NICK :bd_ < 1320249533 224809 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320249609 713490 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CE17.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320251763 947176 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1320252046 654061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, I find something like 1% of the existing quotes funny <-- I mostly agree < 1320252322 318095 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless military industrial complex america < 1320252499 600124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, planning to follow that remark up with anything? < 1320252628 148539 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Excess Flood < 1320252649 979353 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1320252800 888418 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : No, it's just a sincere idle thought. < 1320253549 468698 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mangas slid down the wall, leaving a trail of something black behind them. When they hit the ground they opened and closed and in doing so improvised a sort of locomotion that brought them ever closer, inch by inch, flap by flap, to the bed where I lay paralyzed. I lost sight of them as they drew closer, but then felt, with an odd calmness, the cold wet touch of mangas sliding up my leg." ­— Dinosaur Comics < 1320253819 7310 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320254714 7238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ... lol < 1320254730 840130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is that mangas as in Japanese comics? < 1320254744 358658 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1320254774 585648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have to check it out for the context, though that probably won't help < 1320255602 523456 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320255642 705507 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320256505 934648 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320256615 607820 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320256787 440909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1320256807 62314 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320256857 106274 :copumpki_!~pumpkin@17.45.135.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320256895 947944 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320256905 223826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:48:54: @tell elliott Homestuck update. < 1320256905 466518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1320256913 234760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really think that will in any way help < 1320256968 667179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:32:55: ...you haven't seen Cascade yet? < 1320256968 794508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:33:35: ....I'm watching it right now, obviously. < 1320256968 847937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:33:38: as I just talked about it loading... < 1320256974 577458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait cakeprophet isn't here < 1320257006 400076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:12:44: `quote < 1320257006 635358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:12:51: 500) _ | |__ _ _ ___ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | |_) | |_| | __/ |_.__/ \__, |\___| < 1320257006 689038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:01: ... what a great quote < 1320257006 689201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:20: -!- augur has joined #esoteric. < 1320257006 689305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:44: `delquote 500 < 1320257012 16324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You just deleted a part of history. < 1320257056 72311 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320257093 782387 :copumpki_!~pumpkin@17.45.135.20 NICK :copumpkin < 1320257094 202760 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.20 QUIT :Changing host < 1320257094 255742 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320258783 980356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320259175 815228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1320259179 158471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that was unexpected. < 1320259385 871111 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320259407 9906 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320259407 476190 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1320259407 528829 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320259855 40354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais hurry up and answer my inconsequential questions. < 1320260655 116934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320260680 751890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes good hi ais523 < 1320260684 105585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i summoned you < 1320260709 880098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just coincidence < 1320260710 114947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1320260712 182032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps a useful one < 1320260715 257521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1320260715 379047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott asked 12h 40m 57s ago: How does the Secret Project handle scheduling being non-deterministic? < 1320260715 611461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott asked 12h 40m 29s ago: Also, what kind of incredibly rough time estimate would you give for an open-source release of working code? < 1320260731 741718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssss finally my amazing questions will be answered < 1320260740 718099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it does handle scheduling being non-deterministic, but the explanation as to how is not a simple one < 1320260741 333882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, @ask actually makes it say "elliott asked". < 1320260742 649257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting. < 1320260749 85126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is that another way of saying it's secret? < 1320260772 363683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a way of saying that I will explain it eventually, probably, but am not feeling up to it right now < 1320260783 700804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I've only just got online < 1320260786 15023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe later today < 1320260832 779007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320260890 335960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What about this one: Would there be a way of giving the running program access to a filesystem from the host? (/not/ a block device or anything) < 1320260897 360742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Read-only access) < 1320260920 474232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I've been doing that for testing, by mounting the host directory read-only inside the test filesystem with a loopback mount < 1320260937 869685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: great < 1320260950 182188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm trying really hard to think of a non-packaging use case for this and I'm stumped :P < 1320260950 369917 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320260971 979425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1320260973 458391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good < 1320260989 120312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the part of the Secret Project you know about is only a moderately small part of the Project as a whole; it's just the bit that has to be done first < 1320260991 832433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no! bad :( < 1320260996 885522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's useful in its own right, all the better < 1320261014 642846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I figure waiting and then mangling it to fit my needs is probably easier than rolling my own < 1320261044 595603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I take it the second question is being deliberately not answered :-P < 1320261058 830854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I don't know the answer < 1320261063 560675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really depends on how busy I am with other things < 1320261393 10858 :yuyu!~yuyu@net-2-40-227-157.cust.dsl.teletu.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1320261398 647189 :yuyu!~yuyu@net-2-40-227-157.cust.dsl.teletu.it QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320261537 342260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Last question! Tell me it isn't written in the same style DNA Maze is. < 1320261550 484930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, AFAIR < 1320261553 356461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't looked at it for a while < 1320261564 467136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely DNA Maze's style can just be fixed with indent(1) if you don't like it, though? < 1320261568 881476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... worrying :P < 1320261584 152717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, sure, but that makes merging more difficult... < 1320261711 303452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Nix essentially has safePerformIO :: (Hashable a) => IO a -> Hash -> a < 1320261736 275426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :safePerformIO m hx = unsafePerformIO $ do { x <- m; when (hash x /= hx) $ fail "oh no"; return x } < 1320262642 7788 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320263166 634175 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320263191 6274 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320263191 670947 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1320263191 724857 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320263685 538503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, would the secret project support exposing a network interface to the program being run? I could just give it the eth0 device through the FS, right? < 1320263709 593505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I don't think it would < 1320263719 582985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why not? :/ < 1320263728 800776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly the project as a whole couldn't; the part you know about theoretically could, I guess, but it'd need to implement the networking syscalls < 1320263732 745351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /think/ I need it, but it would reduce a lot of duplication < 1320263742 684555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, how can you run something completely repeatably when it's connecting to something you don't control? < 1320263757 971711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I'm fine with it violating repeatability; this is a special case < 1320263767 606799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the network is the only way to violate it < 1320263772 336774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to all the other ways you can < 1320263823 494184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, umm, rather defeats the point of the secret project, but I doubt it'd be that hard; you'd just let socketcall(2) fall through to the default blocking or non-blocking syscall impl < 1320263865 163255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's for a good reason :P < 1320263924 79994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in Nix-style systems, retrieving the source tarball for a package is done by having that be its own package whose "build" script just uses wget or the like and then places the result in the store; this is forced to be pure because you have to specify an SHA hash of the resulting file < 1320263930 805417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole thing fails if it doesn't match < 1320263956 297303 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320263961 268494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could just run those without sandboxing, but I'd still have to e.g. run them as an unprivileged user, chroot them in, to avoid malicious behaviour exploiting the fact that it's run outside of the Secret Project < 1320263971 487266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need perfect reproducibility for something like that? it doesn't fall under the secret project's definition of reproducibility because it doesn't control the timing < 1320263973 567208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would be easier if I could just use "the Secret Project, but with networking" < 1320263984 71080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for sandboxing < 1320264013 274815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just saying that reproducibility offers sandboxing as a side-effect < 1320264015 972266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I said the secret project wasn't designed for security, although I guess it may end up sandboxing things anyway < 1320264019 97526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320264028 573693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I happen to need reproducibility most of the time, but just sandboxing for this case < 1320264038 728847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice if I could rely on one thing to do that, rather than having two very similar mechanisms < 1320264043 568495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :differing only in that one allows network access < 1320264083 690618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, an unprivileged account and a chroot isn't /that/ much of a pain, but I'd be happier if I could use the same mechanism :) < 1320264120 279021 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320264126 448681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it may be possible, but would be really hackish < 1320264158 654273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : that, umm, rather defeats the point of the secret project, but I doubt it'd be that hard; you'd just let socketcall(2) fall through to the default blocking or non-blocking syscall impl < 1320264161 737578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound very hackish < 1320264178 54605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it violates the invariants that the secret project is based on < 1320264198 106140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm looking at the source, it seems to be One True Brace < 1320264201 903547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you're happy enough with, I guess? < 1320264206 887974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure :P < 1320264223 255182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete with literal formfeed characters to separate unrelated functions < 1320264229 709211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Linux style with varying indentation width < 1320264240 115295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux style is basically a specification of K&R/1TBS, though < 1320264248 716032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not 1TBS... < 1320264255 148946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's some awful hybrid 1TBS/GNU style, then :P < 1320264269 239524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1TBS is an indentation style, right? < 1320264273 230857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :formfeeds are not indentation < 1320264285 213487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's a formatting style < 1320264291 52449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also tells you where to put braces, for one < 1320264449 818378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's bizarre seeing someone use SCM to mean something other than VCS < 1320264532 184185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wow, I think `pureWriteIORef :: IORef a -> a -> b -> b` is actually pure < 1320264546 930382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pureWriteIORef ref v x = unsafePerformIO (writeIORef ref v >> return x) < 1320264564 252786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://pastie.org/pastes/2800788/text?key=c9nqhgeel5yd8hcu4jzq < 1320264572 709275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were asking about the Secret Project's scheduling rules < 1320264580 765209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's the relevant parts, with a bit of censorship applied < 1320264598 271767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf is that censorship for? :P < 1320264608 176998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Secret Project, right? < 1320264617 341574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bits of it have to stay secret < 1320264621 716156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, how do you convince linux not to use its normal scheduler? < 1320264714 797417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking, all but one process is either in a blocking syscall, or stopped < 1320264719 309060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only one process can actually run < 1320264759 239148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, what if i fork two processes doing for(;;);? < 1320264763 426372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should multiple processes get knocked out of a blocking syscall simultaneously for whatever reason, they're each stopped at the syscall return in arbitrary order, and banned from communicating in any way with other processes until the Secret Project has a good handle on which ones are and aren't working < 1320264770 77562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Secret Project doesn't handle infinite busyloops < 1320264807 211478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about if I start two subprocesses, alarm(15), then put them both in a busyloop of incrementing a global i variable < 1320264811 204037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then exit(i) in the signal handler? < 1320264846 519779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't handle that either < 1320264868 840539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does it have to be able to, for its intended purpose; and besides, the way it works, it can't < 1320264881 191078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not exactly perfect repeatability then, is it? < 1320264890 997552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could imagine someone doing something like that to produce a random seed < 1320264893 690009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was; you said that < 1320264906 506827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you've strongly implied that's what it's for, otherwise why go to all the effort? :p < 1320264919 434306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what it's for, but it's not designed to work on arbitrary programs; just a very large subset of them < 1320264926 422237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you couldn't run it on itself < 1320264952 661461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've already established that it actively resists being debugged (running gdb inside or outside it causes mad things to happen, as does running valgrind inside or outside it) < 1320264966 394228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1320264973 355277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I wonder if that valgrind thing should worry me < 1320264981 710913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :packages might try and run a test suite at build-time < 1320265012 429164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I suppose it'll be good enough :) especially since the Nix guys have problems with such simple things as the system clock or hostname leaking into builds < 1320265046 5348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind internal-errors on the Secret Project with a request to report a bug < 1320265057 336393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I did report what was causing it, I'm reasonably sure the reply would be "then don't do that" < 1320265066 130953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've said < 1320265203 479341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a quote you might like: "In the presence of patch sets between arbitrary releases, it is not directly < 1320265203 649258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvious which sequence of patches or full downloads is optimal. To be fully gen- < 1320265203 702161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eral, the Nix substitute downloader runs a shortest path algorithm on a directed < 1320265203 702329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :acyclic graph that, intuitively, represents components already installed, avail- < 1320265203 702440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :able patches between components, and available full downloads of components." < 1320265256 524693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why acyclic? < 1320265258 256378 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320265268 669123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think that would work < 1320265276 168018 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1320265295 487271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want an alpha release, then you can get it either by getting a beta and reversing the patches between it and the alpha, or applying patches forwards from the previous release < 1320265375 889791 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320265376 495768 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1320265376 548519 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1320265428 202146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in this case, "getting a beta" is the thing to be avoided < 1320265429 241142 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1320265439 797486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the user isn't a time traveller, so they have files from the past only < 1320265446 255787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you don't want the latest version? < 1320265451 812702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't understand < 1320265453 171027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files may be from the past, but in the future of the version you want < 1320265457 600595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have a pre-alpha, and need to update to a beta < 1320265461 732477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's not patches between every single release < 1320265464 113141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in-between < 1320265465 523322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only some of them < 1320265494 95896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: say you have version 16, and want to update to version 17alpha5; 17beta1 is already out < 1320265516 885666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then going forwards to 17beta1 and then back to 17alpha5 may be the smallest set of patches to use < 1320265538 64484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1320265563 718624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OTOH, wanting to update to 17alpha5 is an incredibly unlikely scenario in context < 1320265588 237737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and if you do want to, downloading the binary from scratch is an acceptable cost to save calculation time for people who don't do insane things < 1320265594 288130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a feature you need and 17beta1 has a critical bug that 17alpha5 doesn't? < 1320265603 697846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but full downloads are always available < 1320265609 404201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is about optimisation, not making things possible in the first place < 1320265614 103671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point is that finding the shortest route in a DAG is the same algo as finding the shortest route in a directed graph < 1320265629 849070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't cost you anything to ban cycles < 1320265639 701497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but the graph itself is bigger < 1320265811 660254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, avoiding implementing a reverse patch algorithm is one reason :P < 1320265844 409737 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my birthday tomorrow < 1320265848 589385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, I just got a wallop claiming that vim was the best editor ever < 1320265849 720191 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm on TV Friday < 1320265857 351135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fireworks display Saturday < 1320265858 152368 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-239-110.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320265861 42485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on your /local machine/? < 1320265864 192871 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-39.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320265865 353140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, on Freenode < 1320265868 70545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1320265869 972728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1320265871 37749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste it < 1320265889 779631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wallops] Holy editor war, batman! Vim's first public release was two decades ago, today! It sure is birthday-y around here as of late. Anyway, congrats to the best editor, ever! Join #vim to congratulate or have good-natured editor bantering ;) < 1320265903 859987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320265911 219414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks designed to incite a flamewar < 1320265912 943934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to troll-and-run #vim now < 1320265919 152273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're /encouraging/ it, aftera ll < 1320265934 150379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : VIM SUX EMACS SUX NOTEPAD IS THE ONE TRUE EDITOR < 1320265935 851932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1320265966 891072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I commented on an editor war on Reddit a while back: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lotys/lines_of_lisp_and_c_code_in_emacss_source_code/c2uknyy?context=3 < 1320265971 820949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a big editor person-y type thing < 1320265990 230848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begins with c < 1320265996 435826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds vaguely French < 1320266000 255173 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Associated with wine < 1320266002 752501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to spel < 1320266003 424679 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1320266010 461305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :critic? < 1320266012 71127 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connossoure < 1320266014 111660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1320266018 505783 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that < 1320266025 599287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :condiment < 1320266026 822037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :connoisseur < 1320266033 842442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :connoisseur. < 1320266033 895089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my IRC client has a spellchecker ;) < 1320266042 604707 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine does, but I wasn't close enough < 1320266045 516193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine doesn't, what package is that again? it's been bugging me < 1320266045 995899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1320266054 2553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have aspell, it just doesn't work in gtk...) < 1320266055 102096 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gave me Connecticut < 1320266068 696478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1320266084 326873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm using Konversation 4, obtained via kubuntu-desktop < 1320266093 48776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has a really crazy insane number of dependencies < 1320266098 916779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I couldn't tell you which one it is specifically < 1320266099 970345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat, Ubuntu 11.04 < 1320266100 514451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope Arch has a kubuntu-desktop package < 1320266106 318047 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably the worst Ubuntu < 1320266111 761297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all distros should have a kubuntu-desktop package :) < 1320266116 332083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kubuntu-desktop exists for the purpose of depending on pretty much the whole of KDE) < 1320266138 471136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /plus/ whatever kubuntu adds < 1320266166 11223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320266287 295433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Clearly, we could produce patches between all Xs and Y s. This policy is < 1320266287 422994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :“optimal” in the sense that the client would always be able to select the abso- < 1320266287 476325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lutely shortest sequence of patches. However, it is infeasible in terms of time and < 1320266287 476502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :space since producing a patch takes a non-negligible amount of time, and most < 1320266287 476610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :such patches will be large since they will be between unrelated components (for < 1320266287 781129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance, patching Acrobat Reader into Firefox is obviously inefficient)." < 1320266295 329345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one patch Acrobat Reader into Firefox under NixOS? < 1320266305 496117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, I got the meme wrong < 1320266311 309199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :serves me to go by WP article titles rather than their contents < 1320266478 649847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does anybody know HTTP better than I do here? < 1320266550 389985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I was right < 1320266559 58854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(w3.org knows HTTP better than I do) < 1320266653 869467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ time ( { for i in {1..9}; do echo "GET /$i HTTP/1.1"; echo; done; echo "GET /10 HTTP/1.1"; echo "Connection: close"; echo; } | nc google.com 80 >/dev/null ) < 1320266658 615652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good command lines < 1320266689 499511 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work? < 1320266694 87326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320266705 869037 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they are very good. < 1320266741 629392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's another quote you might like: "A good value for k would be around 2, e.g., k = 1.9." < 1320266753 839627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also e.g. k = 2 :-P < 1320266858 34683 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320267105 121391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Has anyone compared patching times / memory use of bps vs. e.g. bsdiff? < 1320267117 859903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if I could parallelise the process somewhat... < 1320267144 796789 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello centrinia < 1320267152 116555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi centrinia < 1320267154 52292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcemkrmo < 1320267155 897640 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Ngevd, elliott. < 1320267156 42294 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcemkrmo: not found < 1320267157 173639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welkom < 1320267158 332572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? skdlf < 1320267159 72563 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welkom: not found < 1320267160 85057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320267160 211162 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :skdlf? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320267161 717100 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320267172 449154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1320267173 889108 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does everyone get a welcome? < 1320267174 712416 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runperl \ toutf8 < 1320267180 558406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: No! Just you. Also new people. < 1320267185 465684 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/? < 1320267187 362908 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26175 < 1320267197 89043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: use `url for things like that < 1320267198 227458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoids pasting < 1320267232 105275 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a stationary point again? < 1320267263 971564 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they when the gradient is 0? < 1320267342 32395 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can also be a point where the gradient is not defined. < 1320267354 103427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good < 1320267359 519770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia, they can? < 1320267373 369320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, discontinuities in the gradient. < 1320267376 71347 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just looking at the wiki. < 1320267395 216282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do things like segfault-catching work under the Secret Project? < 1320267395 575776 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd isn't meant to know about that :P < 1320267400 55715 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320267414 67267 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-239-110.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1320267417 982548 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that is a critical point. < 1320267440 391459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can catch segfaults itself < 1320267442 901451 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong earlier. < 1320267444 810873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia, erm, yeah. < 1320267445 987708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't do anything with them yet < 1320267453 272009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that... isn't the point < 1320267455 312203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could pass them to the program's segfault interrupt handler if you wanted it ot < 1320267456 877735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1320267461 426673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's actually what it does < 1320267467 617297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean things like libsigsegv < 1320267474 586034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which let you use segfaults to e.g. expand a BF tape < 1320267481 165262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think it could handle that < 1320267482 704269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do the mmapping just right so it's on a page boundary < 1320267484 197465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1320267504 501395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may handle that already, in fact < 1320267522 925314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just checking that build processes that use software which pull tricks like this will work :) < 1320267533 513805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. SBCL does the "mmap a gigantic private heap" t hing < 1320267642 203967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you said that the Secret Project can't be run under gdb, but does gdb work inside it? < 1320267658 415035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1320267664 162858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320267730 308972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm, not only does gdb go wrong, but so does the Secret Project < 1320267732 927376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a bug in it somewhere < 1320267828 933092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I just had a silly conservative GC idea, that I just realised never frees anything < 1320267831 9648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect! < 1320267944 740956 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/316901_284913304864672_100000380143871_936853_1298194009_n.jpg < 1320267973 711837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1320267983 727124 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's a board game < 1320268060 809238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Set the maximum number of FUSE mounts allowed to non-root users. < 1320268061 196168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# The default is 1000. < 1320268061 248588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1320268061 248664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#mount_max = 1000 < 1320268076 906354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is... is that the church in Hexham which elliott tells me is the only interesting thing in it? < 1320268087 448225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was interesting? < 1320268119 596124 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gaol's better < 1320268126 71501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes < 1320269569 882158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the last windows version that was sold on floppy? < 1320269573 456960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess windows 3.x < 1320269575 977965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :95. < 1320269580 704226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, really? Heh < 1320269585 508851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how many floppies? < 1320269628 576330 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :13. < 1320269650 419947 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 OSR 2.1 came on 26. < 1320269652 91483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Windows Server 2008 < 1320269655 992389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enterprise edition < 1320269660 503917 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320269800 153517 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waaaait. Holy crap 98 could be had on floppies. < 1320269809 947683 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 floppies. < 1320269810 229327 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it on CD < 1320269821 234883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, but was it ever distributed as that? < 1320269834 867334 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. *Barely*. < 1320269838 649749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320269880 315750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were also 1.7M floppies. < 1320269882 86538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, google earth doesn't display territorial boarders in the sea. < 1320269900 383391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know if there is international water between Canda and Greenland, but I can't find info on that ANYWHERE < 1320269931 753430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ... that is rare. I never seen any of those. Can a normal computer read them? < 1320269957 556990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how was that identified, yet another hole in the cover? < 1320270023 139528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want to know if there is international water between Canda and Greenland, but I can't find info on that ANYWHERE < 1320270032 349576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry, but you can still be prosecuted for crimes committed in international waters. < 1320270037 944373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, har, har < 1320270043 621534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to go into space for your private time. < 1320270217 485667 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: early morning tomorrow < 1320270284 544603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Subversion gets Suspended" — Introversion website < 1320270290 591323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1320270308 79776 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old news < 1320270308 926106 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagines n as m < 1320270313 924708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now we're going to have to use CVS!!! < 1320270316 842252 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom hoover moos loudly < 1320270330 311782 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant confuses it for mews < 1320270355 411298 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, actually. < 1320270355 485473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: comfuses < 1320270358 155487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :momqy < 1320270368 189821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, to witch question? < 1320270373 737666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the borders or the floppy? < 1320270374 960658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ahahaha "In the end, after all that development and years of work, you still completed the bank heist by walking up to the first door, cracking it with a pin cracker tool, then walking into the vault and stealing the money." < 1320270378 210557 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Can a normal computer read them?" < 1320270379 628929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember googlestalking monqy and it turned out he was some mother? < 1320270380 961696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320270389 795615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is the best mother < 1320270392 475893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote uncle < 1320270394 761438 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :221) elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? what Heck yes I'm elliott's uncle. < 1320270408 258557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is that quote from ("in the end..." < 1320270409 672450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1320270415 314351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://forums.introversion.co.uk/introversion/viewtopic.php?t=2967 < 1320270421 878374 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a mother??? < 1320270428 347717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes happy birthday < 1320270429 191559 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft actually used it for quite a while. < 1320270446 760615 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember getting pregnant........... < 1320270447 664785 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy's child? < 1320270452 847327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bastards. < 1320270492 264717 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy's child is multiple bastards? That kid's got talent. < 1320270509 846843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations monqy ! < 1320270517 769299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, even Introversion didn't know what the hell Subversion was about? < 1320270521 342900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This... explains a lot. < 1320270547 690888 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have I mentioned that you're on the verge of saying your first word? < 1320270553 419008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was imagining Uplink developed into a bigger game with more replay value (as in: there are still challenges even after you've learned how to hack a bank)." < 1320270555 849900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amen. < 1320270570 499763 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those banks are insanely broken. < 1320270662 419150 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CE17.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320270682 813556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, BtW, have located debit card. < 1320270689 779199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Buy a kitten. < 1320270692 160806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will buy Humble Bundle post-haste. < 1320270700 413425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pay more than the average of < 1320270700 654021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$4.71 to get The Binding of < 1320270700 706262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isaac and Blocks That Matter! < 1320270702 68044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a kitten, although what if my cat doesn't like it? < 1320270705 211345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See, it's going to force you to be a good person. < 1320270709 610918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, BASTARDS < 1320270733 196139 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320270733 571997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pirate them for me to see if they work? < 1320270743 837049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By which I mean send me your download link._ < 1320270764 269057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That feels wrong!!!!!!!! Also that would let you do awful things to my order. < 1320270786 662597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IIRC the Binding of Isaac is 2D, so you'll be fine. Voxatron is software-rendered, so your GPU is irrelevant. < 1320270788 436187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean giving all your moneys to them. < 1320270796 709490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocks That Matter looks 2D too. < 1320270799 268739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'll be fine. < 1320270836 202258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "The Binding of Isaac" isn't worth it, "Blocks That Matter" is < 1320270855 871716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Binding of Isaac has gotten rave reviews from literally everything and Super Meat Boy was great, so... you're probably wrong. < 1320270865 16771 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard mixed things about it < 1320270892 96659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well try it yourself. It looks insane. Sure the gameplay may be good, but I referred to the setting and the plot < 1320270913 557608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also anything with Roguelike-style world generation is the best. < 1320270915 152027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just disturbing from what I seen < 1320270941 302045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is because you are (a) Swedish; (b) therefore, a wuss. < 1320270947 246656 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320270954 858823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only non-wussy Swede is olsner and that is why he is also the only non-terrible Swede. < 1320270961 184396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no you are just as insane and disturbing yourself < 1320270968 22846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what about FireFly and BeholdMyGlory? < 1320270972 881838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not people. < 1320270978 743678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1320270988 658705 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf reisub didn't work < 1320271009 134117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Do you have magic sysrq on>? < 1320271012 415212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>// < 1320271036 235559 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure? < 1320271156 590599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Check? < 1320271243 99274 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq contains 1 < 1320271266 688105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, are you on a laptop? < 1320271277 433070 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1320271307 960399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, Does fn on the sysrq button do anything according to the legend on the keyboard < 1320271335 238060 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1320271336 999499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysrq doesn't work reliably on my laptop, Fn-PrtSc supposedly gives SysRq, but well, not really < 1320271379 926457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: a safe way to test is fn+printscreen+b! < 1320271382 524331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SAFEST way. < 1320271477 528837 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!? < 1320271546 110565 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try with w < 1320271564 245350 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or m < 1320271604 312588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I once did REIBUS backwards because I forgot that you need to reverse 'busier'. < 1320271607 801923 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works without Fn not with < 1320271669 600197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: REIBUS isn't BUSIER backwards. < 1320271703 10347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's a miracle my computer still works at all, frankly. < 1320271722 548816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's REISUB; let me guess, you didn't pause for a few seconds between letters either? < 1320271739 911767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember? < 1320272146 682307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SgeoN1: fn-prtsc-h should be a good way to test < 1320272154 592476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does nada for me < 1320272159 115762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He already tested. < 1320272168 274572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320272190 982384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Figure 5 shows the build algorithm for derivations in pseudo-code. The operator ← denotes assignment, and x [← symbol with a ∪ above it] y is shorthand for x ← x ∪ y." < 1320272197 118266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're reinventing C notation X-D < 1320272220 437846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320272952 252045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't think I like the path this paper is taking < 1320272964 622683 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what path did it take < 1320272991 736501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure yet :) < 1320273099 971728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We fix this problem by computing hashes modulo self-references. < 1320273100 321188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, this means that we ignore self-references when com- < 1320273100 374187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :puting the hash. First, when computing the hash of contents(p), < 1320273100 374356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we zero out all occurrences of the string hashPart(p)." < 1320273100 830593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1320273117 874296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how to solve a fixed-point for a hash function: zero out the self-reference hole :D < 1320273135 370692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320273152 176714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... wonder what happens if you deliberately insert something that would be a self-reference but zeroed < 1320273157 206722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it changes it to the hash :D < 1320273181 726783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1320273184 191380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is necessary to encode the offsets < 1320273184 465483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the occurrences of h into the hash to prevent hash collisions for < 1320273184 518201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings that are equal except for having either h or 0-strings at the < 1320273184 518365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same location." < 1320273216 262765 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320273367 151781 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1320273957 559602 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1320274159 109400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: how to solve a fixed-point for a hash function: zero out the self-reference hole :D <-- isn't that how a lot of embedded hash style checksums are done? < 1320274170 42283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1320274181 918724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more clever though < 1320274184 466483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it notes the offsets < 1320274197 882941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't cause a collision by deliberately taking something with a self-reference and turning it into 0s instead < 1320274211 125696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320274212 456993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the chance that a cryptosecure hash has a fixed point? almost 1, isn't it? < 1320274242 698052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think 1 < 1320274245 859111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except, no < 1320274249 795274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's 1 if every hash value is possible < 1320274258 281469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether every hash value is possible or not sounds /very/ hard to estimate < 1320274266 900819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let alone prove < 1320274286 924745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc stuff like checksum in some of gzip, zip, rar and so on or similar work by computing the hash with a dummy value (such as all zeros) in place of where the hash goes, sounds quite the same? < 1320274289 424520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, if any hash value is impossible, it's 1 < 1320274297 704887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1320274304 27924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then two well-formed hash values have to map onto the same hash by the pigeonhole principle < 1320274308 4185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's similar < 1320274313 181825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right < 1320274317 141881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it backwards :) < 1320274319 497710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all are possible, then it's possible but unlikely that they all go round in cycles of 2 or more < 1320274365 161723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I remember a while back some idiot web designer guy started a "distributed search" for an SHA-1 fixed-point, waving away people who gave statistics as to the incredible unlikelihood of one being found by brute force with "if enough of us try it might just work!!!" < 1320274378 101891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cried :'( < 1320274379 110676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, non-crypto secure hash that doesn't have that property (unless I misunderstood you): f(a) = b, f(*) = a < 1320274390 498299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where a and b are strings < 1320274406 301905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in that case, the only well-formed outputs are a and b; both are possible, so it's possible that there's no fixedpoint < 1320274408 757549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact there isn't < 1320274423 666665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes < 1320274434 291091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is!!! < 1320274434 914332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://elliottkember.com/kember_identity.html < 1320274438 931114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moron even named it after himself < 1320274440 864112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /another/ elliott? < 1320274444 637134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also dear god those colour highlights are unbearable < 1320274447 686259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh god you're right < 1320274459 212812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not hird < 1320274461 871408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm changing my fucking name, this means there are at least two abject morons with my first name < 1320274463 276562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as their first name < 1320274467 520462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, three if you count me! < 1320274472 815363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320274482 67086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there are at least 2 people called Alex who are morons, just because it's a really common name < 1320274488 858666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is "Elloitt" spelled like that very rare? < 1320274495 60818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1320274497 965651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/oi/io/ < 1320274498 666433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I... suspect not a single person is called that < 1320274500 901365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1320274503 387526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah typo :P < 1320274505 117855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well Elliot is the most common spelling by far < 1320274510 94182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eliot is also common < 1320274512 811346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320274514 451342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is, I think, Eliott < 1320274516 630060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and your spelling? < 1320274520 405864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott is not all that common :P < 1320274523 252189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320274533 807305 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elloitt is probably the name of a kid with illiterate parents. < 1320274543 16979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact, my name means "Ruler of the Elves". I am what I hate. < 1320274563 385613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe there are like less than 5 people in Sweden with both my first and my last name. And one other if you include my middle names. < 1320274572 803568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like there's a 37% chance there's no such input for MD5 < 1320274575 868741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is just weird. Chances are pretty low < 1320274582 120713 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact, my name means "supported of Yahweh". < 1320274589 949795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt there's another Elliott Hird on the globe < 1320274593 481119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1/e? < 1320274598 398588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be my guess as to the probability < 1320274599 145973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep: http://ograll.blogspot.com/2009/06/mathematics-of-perfect-hash.html < 1320274602 131200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fun fact, my name means "Ruler of the Elves". I am what I hate. < 1320274605 850433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No dude what about Cacame. < 1320274612 657695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not Cacame! I'm Elliott! < 1320274615 333784 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure my first+last name is unique among living people. < 1320274625 573325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Unknown? < 1320274628 642395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I doubt my name occurs at all outside Sweden. It might just show up in Norway or Denmark I guess < 1320274631 607820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1320274636 687768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It most certainly isn't if you count people still alive. < 1320274651 188547 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1320274655 63874 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who have ever lived. < 1320274664 922461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've found one! < 1320274665 40929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly a complete match but I'm done wasting cycles.. < 1320274665 300737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5('deadbeefdc84955dfb53442f741f4ec9') == 1ebb63c68f0e40e6902e0deadfeefbfa" < 1320274673 488328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, oh? what is it? < 1320274674 696516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1320274686 405553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even have "deadbeef" in both < 1320274687 585011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Josiah Worcester < 1320274691 95157 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see dead feef < 1320274691 156143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I doubt it exsists, considering, which guy making such a algorithm would not make sure that would never happen? < 1320274691 393918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would at least try to prevent it, since it kind of breaks the purpose of the algorithm(a one-way algorithm)" < 1320274693 733480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I give up on these comments < 1320274705 368321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: both the forename and surname are not unheard of < 1320274714 519943 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Though not exactly common. < 1320274717 705048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1320274720 718289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: I'm not Cacame! I'm Elliott! < 1320274726 981288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but get a beard on strings? < 1320274730 490495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK fine. < 1320274731 76815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both my forename and surname are really common < 1320274741 402829 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suspect Worcester is more common as a place name. :P < 1320274744 430918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also make Hexham get conquered by dwarves, i.e. Scots. < 1320274756 985464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be up for warring with the Scots. < 1320274759 94066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This place is boring. < 1320274779 177068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono, we'd conquer you, and then the English would kill and eat most of your family and your wife. < 1320274795 997501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1320274851 188559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know < 1320274858 181833 :calamari!~jeffryj@32.97.110.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320274863 946141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Josiah Worcester <-- yeah... those are both quite rare < 1320274865 821240 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320274878 585977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, btw, isn't "Worcester" the name of some food stuff < 1320274881 696432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "Worcester-foo" < 1320274891 986596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I confusing it with something else? < 1320274893 161310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worcester sauce. < 1320274897 286523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah, thanks < 1320274908 91560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like spicy vinegar I think. < 1320274915 220095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay < 1320274920 986071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have only actually tasted Worcester sauce crisps.) < 1320274926 554866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They are good.) < 1320274934 497243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this guy uses those awful italic background-highlights everywhere. < 1320274937 812256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I foolishly clicked on to his site.) < 1320274947 224790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, from the name it sounds like it comes from UK, is that the case? < 1320274951 352659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like he just discovered highlighter pens. < 1320274957 673251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's... not like spicy vinegar. < 1320274963 542730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fermented fish apparently? < 1320274969 473140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No don't call it that. < 1320274972 93665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody thinks of it like that. < 1320274974 648237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the road to hell. < 1320274978 287437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just made out of magic. < 1320274996 636704 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1320274996 741951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you English people don't, but here in Scotland we like our food in some state of decay. < 1320275001 542218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you mean Worcester sauce ~ surströmming? :D < 1320275008 188283 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worcester sauce is fermented fish? But fish sauce is fermented fish. < 1320275009 270452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more fluid < 1320275019 875261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's made from like a billion things plus anchovies :P < 1320275022 88075 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Worcester sauce was related to soy sauce. < 1320275023 333484 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1320275025 728497 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve of the idea that worcester sauce is made of magic < 1320275028 918482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "The ingredients of a traditional bottle of Worcestershire sauce sold in the UK as "The Original & Genuine Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce" are malt vinegar (from barley), spirit vinegar, molasses, sugar, salt, anchovies, tamarind extract, onions, garlic, spice, and flavouring." < 1320275036 293310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it's like soy sauce but with more... flavour. < 1320275038 52593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a bit less salty. < 1320275044 925941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320275050 870299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The "spice, and flavouring" is believed to include cloves, soy sauce, lemons, pickles and peppers." < 1320275054 540750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Worcester sauce is very much a form of fish sauce. < 1320275054 759715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, approximately surströmming :P < 1320275062 528257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically they just threw everything into a blender. < 1320275071 637712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximately liquid surströmming :P < 1320275072 300389 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another sauce that's secretly not vegetarian :P < 1320275076 204716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Seriously though try some Lea & Perrins it's good. < 1320275083 89789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, "Worcester sauce" is slightly shortened for "Worcestershire sauce". < 1320275085 917027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so incidentally, people who think Tesla was the most intelligent person ever and we've irrecoverably lost so much stuff because we just didn't listen fools: the worst/ < 1320275088 391299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah < 1320275089 960845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1320275091 683800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ^ < 1320275097 367167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn tab-last-spoke-first < 1320275098 810163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who calls it Worcester sauce is a bad person. < 1320275101 646026 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shortening goes even further for Japanese; it's just "sôsu". < 1320275107 32191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Dimitri_Torterat_-_Bottle_of_Worcestershire_sauce.jpg ;; look, it _says_ Worcestershire on the bottle. < 1320275111 12150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it even be possible to make Haskell have a bijective function type <-> that you could, in addition to possibly conversion of some reversible esolangs, also be able to prove things such as: forall a b c n. Not (Either (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe n)) -> Maybe a) (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe n)) -> Maybe b) <-> (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe n)) -> Maybe c)) < 1320275111 698232 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guarantee your local food store has worcestershire sauce < 1320275116 191599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, like "sauce"? Lol < 1320275119 674613 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yup. < 1320275119 727321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Everyone just calls it wfhdioasfhoisder sauce. < 1320275133 212777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Leaperrins.png < 1320275138 349417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOUBLY APPETISING < 1320275148 704929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOUBLY DIGESTIBLE < 1320275151 281433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, think of the most racist way to say in Japanese; that is how the Japanese say it, < 1320275157 787010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, sure? That would be OKQ8's small food section that is closest I think. ;P < 1320275164 218667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so digestible. < 1320275167 56210 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1320275180 262236 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Actually, most people really suck at mock-Engrish. < 1320275186 884826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put it in your mouth and it turns into crap in like 10 seconds it's so digestible < 1320275194 36951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: X-D < 1320275199 207026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I suspect the closest Coop Forum has it. Maybe even the local ICA Maxi. < 1320275205 773160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yes, there's nothing I hate more than poorly-executed racism. < 1320275227 127473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those are the worst store names. < 1320275234 54576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1320275240 72778 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: okq8? that's not a food store, that's a gas station < 1320275244 603205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over here we just call it the co < 1320275245 96046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :op < 1320275256 29254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That line break is part of the name, it seems.) < 1320275259 602834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No no now it's "the co-operative" all-lowercase. < 1320275269 405862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed. But they sell milk and some other basic food stuff iirc < 1320275270 340505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The MOST STUNNING REBRAND. < 1320275274 360549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, like, one wall < 1320275274 825591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coöperative. < 1320275276 502330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (I kind of miss the old < 1320275277 88587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :co < 1320275277 710251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :op < 1320275278 610379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo.) < 1320275286 63138 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They changed it???????????? < 1320275291 613275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dude. < 1320275301 39134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Cooperativebrand.svg < 1320275308 262092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1320275310 407863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sad < 1320275313 441333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Drighlington_co-op.jpg < 1320275320 588462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this logo is horrible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coop_Forum.png < 1320275326 76552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my childhood < 1320275328 55963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is dead < 1320275332 179158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Have you heard their adverts I can never stop laughing whenever I hear "GUD WITH FUD". < 1320275335 357737 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320275341 535522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ow. < 1320275344 479234 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :coop is never said as two words in swedish (although it does mean co-operative something), it's just ko:p < 1320275369 298108 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my pseudophonetic writing makes sense < 1320275373 617779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG .coop is a TLD. < 1320275377 936735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No shit??? < 1320275380 330592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken.coop < 1320275387 396326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hey, they called "coop forum" "Obs!" when I grew up. < 1320275390 267496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Taken. < 1320275397 229397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best name < 1320275407 43729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the Montana Poultry Growers Cooperative. < 1320275421 878169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320275427 134219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is lost there.... < 1320275427 678204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1320275429 590284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320275446 576018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway how is "ICA" such a terrible food store name? < 1320275454 850181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523, for one! < 1320275462 135312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1320275470 986125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least they don't change name every 5 years or so like coop does < 1320275484 31541 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-operative food ... they specialize in food that doesn't fight you when you try to eat it? < 1320275513 36918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1320275517 386296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't ever remember these guys changing their logo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ica_logo.svg < 1320275518 130799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Milliways. < 1320275537 921218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it is a franchise organisation with a common brand actually. < 1320275547 216636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Heyyyy, everyone calls it Concurrent Idealised Algol. Do they just acronym it differently to avoid "CIA"? :p < 1320275610 677892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Idealised Concurrent Algol in the papers I've seen < 1320275628 627136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICA_AB < 1320275641 674285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=idealised+concurrent+algol < 1320275652 11244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all top results say "Concurrent Idealised ALGOL" or "CIA" < 1320275661 310459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: first result that doesn't is that dan ghica guy :P < 1320275668 286540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're all the same paper :) < 1320275673 120821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, haha < 1320275699 755629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... there's a different paper referencing CIA on the second page and the ones that don't are Ghica too :P < 1320275702 420435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, you just made me lose my /dev/null game through distraction < 1320275703 216420 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1320275704 206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK HE'S HIDING THE TRUTH FROM YOU < 1320275706 685425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1320275721 350064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how, nethack is turn based! < 1320275728 297230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I... will give you my first-born? < 1320275737 891637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : DIED : ais523 (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law) 232346 points, killed by a disenchanter on jaafar.devnull.net < 1320275740 114515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320275741 475755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to elliott and not enough to my HP < 1320275747 131793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to elliott and not enough to my HP < 1320275748 347235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's OK < 1320275749 50369 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :704) Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to elliott and not enough to my HP < 1320275757 768955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's not a massively good quote < 1320275757 884799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I just really don't like children. < 1320275762 526632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1320275776 784086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is kind of funny out of contecxt < 1320275778 966342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a great idea < 1320275781 69568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :context* < 1320275892 637844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, what should I call the command to delete the last quote that was brought up? < 1320275908 663153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: `dellastquote? < 1320275926 85762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how inelegant! < 1320275932 924442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking `begone < 1320275939 392803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd do too < 1320275943 220642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch out for race conditions < 1320275956 265437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if there's been a `quote in the last 5 seconds, do nothing < 1320275971 948319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, `revert < 1320275975 532416 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unquote? < 1320275980 529671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner++++ < 1320275985 97440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1320275988 868418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect < 1320276026 831188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320276029 50316 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320276032 712859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :/ < 1320276035 402642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... < 1320276039 954369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/quote < 1320276041 684943 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote < 1320276049 646445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1320276054 130777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that? < 1320276055 204213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1320276083 194309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi | tee >(cat >test); cat test < 1320276084 985346 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1320276089 376164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1320276094 42362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi | tee >>(cat >test); cat test < 1320276096 8211 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1320276097 62058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi | tee ><(cat >test); cat test < 1320276098 862267 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: redirection unexpected < 1320276102 532545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hepl < 1320276107 761736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing < 1320276115 816835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you how know <(...) passes an fd from a subshell? < 1320276118 190625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want that, but for output < 1320276125 340129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think that works < 1320276127 14574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that tee writes to a subshell instead < 1320276129 874598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could use a | pipe < 1320276135 832039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no i can't < 1320276137 494819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to tee it < 1320276137 609884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tee | (cat >test) < 1320276138 895608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1320276142 256412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... < 1320276144 634802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how tee works? < 1320276153 737439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well obviously it won't work here < 1320276163 955275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically I don't think you can do what you ask for < 1320276171 910998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320276179 810703 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something like ... 7<(foo) >&7 would work? except that I think it doesn't work < 1320276196 799914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, looks to me like it would get two inputs? < 1320276199 762595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320276201 967252 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :300) Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want. < 1320276205 248332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320276207 325369 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :340) haha, god made one helluva blunder there :DS "WHOOPS HE AIN'T DEAD YET!" "luckily no one will believe him because christians are such annoying retards" < 1320276209 826152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320276211 992146 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :146) ais523: killer bunnies can be harmed by domesticated canines only. < 1320276214 994733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320276215 622965 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but at a file descriptor you don't care about < 1320276216 451583 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320276217 140246 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :239) Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors" < 1320276224 179767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320276226 607881 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1320276229 844916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 239 < 1320276231 313033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well sure, but foo will see it as output, not input < 1320276231 893808 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :239) And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) < 1320276232 906668 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run bash -c "echo hi | tee >(cat >test); cat test" < 1320276235 395150 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1320276243 46178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, heh < 1320276247 15331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm test < 1320276248 951397 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320276251 261629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1320276252 553069 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1320276257 993240 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>(...) is a bash/zsh/probably ksh-ism. < 1320276264 184983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1320276266 957154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably a bad idea < 1320276269 609804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every `quote causes a commit < 1320276272 86476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...eh, who cares :) < 1320276272 983577 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HackEgo's /bin/sh is, of course, dash. < 1320276280 789957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 787 < 1320276282 176246 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320276283 691003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just to undo my test delete) < 1320276290 370715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so bash supports < 1320276296 444287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :supports it, but it isn't posix < 1320276298 258780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1320276302 440927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320276304 497138 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :590) The fact that the elves will be happy with this will hopefully be counteracted by the fact that I plan to drop them into the magma cistern. < 1320276305 733770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320276308 150994 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1320276309 278487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320276311 324633 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut: lastquote: No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `lastquote': No such file or directory < 1320276315 471419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :P < 1320276323 950136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 787 < 1320276325 330259 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320276325 466453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1320276331 403123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, every quote causing a commit? ouch < 1320276335 621784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 793 < 1320276336 891624 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320276337 268795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets see what Gregor says to that < 1320276343 723457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shrug :) it already runs "hg commit" < 1320276346 714815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ends up as an empty commit < 1320276355 27246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he squashes the repo anyway < 1320276387 422605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/shortlog/cdae49db4615) < 1320276405 226434 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-142.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1320276477 711902 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you addquote after the last quote, does unquote remove quote's quote rather than addquote's quote? < 1320276500 413868 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you should require a parameter < 1320276510 918782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ ./a.out < 1320276511 35167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ echo $? < 1320276511 87393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 < 1320276511 87580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ ./a.out < 1320276511 87685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ echo $? < 1320276511 753193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 < 1320276513 785267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ ./a.out < 1320276515 714020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ echo $? < 1320276517 775082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 < 1320276517 891565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ... the whole point was to NOT require that < 1320276519 695218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320276521 737408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, yes < 1320276525 846119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I can fix that if you want :P < 1320276545 86453 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then there is no way that it could work properly, I think. < 1320276546 562316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1320276547 616675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an idiot < 1320276551 779930 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could be convinced that it's a surprise feature though < 1320276561 962625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ... it is supposed to refer to last quote all the time < 1320276619 447622 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could make it do that, but what if someone add one in between? < 1320276637 635116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even possibly by private message? < 1320276668 172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ask elliott < 1320276800 688085 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if delquote and unquote prints which quote actually got deleted, you can fix it when there was a race condition and you didn't win < 1320276831 190663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you're not allowed to printf from a signal handler, right? < 1320276840 27569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, definitely not < 1320276850 77767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :) < 1320276855 694112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains why redirecting to a file made my program silent < 1320276865 773873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to do this < 1320276876 43192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see man 7 signal, it has a list of safe functions about halfway down < 1320276887 828189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but unless one of those is write i don't care much :P < 1320276899 486624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you trying to do? < 1320276907 994745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :write my Secret Project-breaking program < 1320276910 476368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one of them is write < 1320276917 224486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is? < 1320276920 919903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why doesn't printf work :( < 1320276924 103334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably not on stdio < 1320276926 667587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stdio buffers < 1320276931 109797 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf might malloc, and iirc glibc's printf does indeed malloc < 1320276933 585268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use write "on stdio" < 1320276938 931630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1320276944 749955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is kind of the point < 1320276950 64454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fine, I'll use a static buffer < 1320276951 391231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :le sigh < 1320276958 697574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does sprintf malloc < 1320276963 385066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it might < 1320276981 676226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it :) < 1320276983 660903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, none of the stdio functions seem to be safe < 1320276987 461426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to that docs < 1320276992 902287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1320276996 759004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually fstat < 1320277002 174032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is useless to yo < 1320277003 790860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you* < 1320277005 938531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use write if i just used an unsigned char < 1320277008 698403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'd have to reduce my wait time < 1320277043 773154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what are you doing? < 1320277049 258626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : write my Secret Project-breaking program < 1320277057 483254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant how are you doing that < 1320277071 126885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, what is the thing you are making use of to break it < 1320277073 587998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by relying on the timing of busyloops: < 1320277076 396892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :volatile unsigned char i = 0; < 1320277076 628166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :void handle(int sig) < 1320277076 680689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1320277076 680894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : write(0, &i, 1); < 1320277076 681004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1320277076 980160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() < 1320277078 876347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1320277080 819133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : signal(SIGALRM, handle); < 1320277082 826131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ualarm(1, 10000); < 1320277083 41026 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as I remember it, all the *printf functions do indeed call malloc (in glibc), even the ones you expect to be safe and even if you don't use any fancy features < 1320277084 991958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (;;) i++; < 1320277086 984757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1320277092 866144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1320277100 459263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1320277101 626231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 0 stdout < 1320277105 999455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because redirecting it isn't doing shit < 1320277106 140096 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least I think that's why I had to write my own simple printf in my malloc) < 1320277111 155915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gross < 1320277112 129764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets see what ais has to say about that < 1320277118 999859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i already asked him < 1320277121 584469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said it doesn't handle that < 1320277122 469482 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :0=stdin, 1=stdout, right? < 1320277128 114546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1320277129 714554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh... writing to stdin just happened to work :) < 1320277145 436890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, impressive < 1320277148 344170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ ./a.out | head -c 100 >a < 1320277148 460316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ ./a.out | head -c 100 >b < 1320277148 512708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky nondet]$ diff a b < 1320277148 512794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary files a and b differ < 1320277148 512841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1320277152 490034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really, it'll point to /dev/tty < 1320277166 804964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320277193 299042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: you can technically get a PRNG going properly in the Secret Project :) < 1320277198 294153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be very good, though < 1320277206 271404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't think there's any way to exploit this without trying really hard to < 1320277216 392773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the risk of it happening accidentally is nil < 1320277220 479681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1320277226 556301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could apply whitening to the PRNG < 1320277226 776104 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the secret project do, and how is it interesting that you can make a PRNG in it? < 1320277252 156432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it tries hard to make executing a linux binary deterministic < 1320277253 409611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: makes linux deterministic < 1320277265 61867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do a tricky busyloop :P < 1320277266 530080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it is ais523's secret project < 1320277279 444394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there might be other ways to exploit it < 1320277281 388580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell < 1320277294 262693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nah, anything that does a syscall will be forced to be deterministic, I think < 1320277295 486446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you could use the above way to seed a proper PRNG. < 1320277300 99360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just any blocking syscall < 1320277302 18494 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's ... not so secret after all? or was the secret recently revealed? < 1320277316 461339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, that's what i meant < 1320277318 463143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, the secret is in wtf ais plan to use it fore < 1320277319 586611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for* < 1320277325 424339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1320277325 664097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, if ais is clever this won't work < 1320277331 907057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he could fake alarm/ualarm < 1320277336 814274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to do what? < 1320277337 284630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he isn't providing a clock, after all < 1320277343 350146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could just allow N context switches < 1320277344 322279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1320277345 961649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then trigger < 1320277347 504921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320277356 512424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think you could exploit it with two threads, though < 1320277358 898879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one busylooping increment < 1320277362 180210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one repeatedly doing: < 1320277363 858780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite busyloop < 1320277365 930103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read value < 1320277373 91494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the values you get would differ on each run < 1320277377 376884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1320277378 898603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically replacing alarm() with a loop :) < 1320277382 159146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320277385 164409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should implement that in this < 1320277398 165420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could use clone() to avoid dealing with pthreads :) < 1320277416 33520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does SP work wrt multi-core? If it effectively causes -j1 then it is pretty useless for your purpose < 1320277438 923757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it's a deterministic scheduler, so it obviously can't do SMP < 1320277441 360652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but -j1 isn't that bad < 1320277450 103222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets build openoffice < 1320277450 612943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is going to be done on build machines, they don't have anything better to do all day < 1320277456 813723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude, I can just build three packages at the same tmie < 1320277457 608819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time < 1320277457 839620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at -j1 < 1320277461 348215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like -j3 < 1320277461 971824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1320277469 322743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're build bots, they have nothing better to do :P < 1320277503 23766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still if a user ever wants to build a package locally for whatever reason (patching it or changing options or whatever) that will be painful < 1320277515 910958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that painful, it's never going to do much more than a small division of the time it'll take < 1320277531 529753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can wait an hour you can wait ten :) < 1320277539 634411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but it's true, I could deal without the scheduler parts < 1320277551 36919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but I could always just rip out the rest < 1320277559 128874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assume an 8 core system. Assume a build time of 8 hours (probably not that unrealistic for openoffice -j1...) < 1320277572 529636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you could potentially cut it to close to 1 hour < 1320277581 753860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bit more due to deps < 1320277594 920320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's hardly any better, since your computer will be much closer to functionally useless for the latter :) < 1320277605 953584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck builds their own openoffice, anyway? < 1320277615 489832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1320277618 101295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, you can still benefit from -j just like single-core machines do < 1320277619 928990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for io-bound stuff < 1320277632 159889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like compiling :p < 1320277637 473945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what about 7 hours and using -j7 on an 8 core machine. You can still run fine on one core < 1320277659 67843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bought an 8 core machine just to compile openoffice? < 1320277673 733205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw iirc suexec of apache needs a PRNG during compile time iirc. I have a vague memory of reading a convoluted explanation for that. < 1320277677 868065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1320277685 759731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it can have a prng < 1320277688 887915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just have a constant seed < 1320277703 342964 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Vorpal is secretly an openoffice developer? < 1320277713 403080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's his shame < 1320277716 760950 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the name "q" is too short I can call a program "AstroQ" instead, and based on Swiss Ephemeris. Another idea would be the feature that you can input dates in Discordian calendar (both literal and standard interpretations) < 1320277724 634764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't we be talking about libreoffice nowadays < 1320277725 165172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, no < 1320277730 240376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I like AstroQ < 1320277732 684608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, good point < 1320277751 2269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you have a source for that suexec thing that'd be fun < 1320277780 854534 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. < 1320277807 740232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think this paper would be more interesting if it had sold me on its original premise < 1320277836 496966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this was back during like apache 1.3 or something I read it. < 1320277874 442201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't find any mention of it in the modern apache docs < 1320277878 224997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320277882 492521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who knows, I might even misremember < 1320277893 966280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could buy it needing a prng at runtime < 1320277897 892684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at build time? binary packages would destroy that < 1320277904 846688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320277943 717841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, if there's one thing i hate more than slavery, it's two-column pdfs < 1320277950 271956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1320277958 568318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to scroll up whenever i reach the bottom of a page < 1320277959 967320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stupid < 1320277986 114111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that wasn't what I asked. Anyway those PDFs are obviously intended for printing or viewing on an upright display < 1320277995 590405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: my current desktop monitor can't be rotated :( < 1320278024 952585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the question was obviously "why is slavery that almost as bad as two-column pdfs" < 1320278056 206202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320278095 32894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway rotating monitors tend to be annoying to rotate. The cables get stuck in the wrong place and so on. < 1320278165 706086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, what paper are you reading= < 1320278167 929121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1320278178 883725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing about nix < 1320278203 600037 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "Building the product can take 8/number_cores hours on a reasonably recent processor ..." < 1320278206 938874 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like Vorpal knew the build time for libreoffice, further proof that he is indeed one of them < 1320278238 692176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that was a pure speculation. I seem to remember something like 6 hours though < 1320278262 626320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway I selected that because the numbers became easy: 8/8=1 < 1320278346 324496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/gPij < 1320278347 782991 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-02 23:59:07 URL:http://sprunge.us/gPij [243] -> "gPij" [1] < 1320278355 884080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv gPij bin/delquote; chmod +x bin/delquote < 1320278357 533483 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320278360 388221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote poop butt < 1320278362 119595 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :705) poop butt < 1320278365 707956 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, the only problem is that that's exactly what we'd expect one of them to say < 1320278366 333996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320278368 708250 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut: the delimiter must be a single character \ Try `cut --help' for more information. \ *poof* < 1320278371 743316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1320278376 229888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 705 < 1320278378 333924 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320278389 925925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it kind of works < 1320278415 863476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you could check contributor list? < 1320278430 388696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278432 344499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :89) Discrimination fields ACTIVATE. < 1320278439 710507 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 704 < 1320278441 769661 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :704) Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to elliott and not enough to my HP < 1320278459 113770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "99) x" | cut -d') ' -f2- < 1320278460 684957 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut: the delimiter must be a single character \ Try `cut --help' for more information. < 1320278465 383017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "99) x" | cut -d')' -f2- < 1320278465 748085 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :In constructor 'connectivity::OConnectionPool::OConnectionPool(const com::sun::star::uno::Reference&, const com::sun::star::uno::Reference&, const com::sun::star::uno::Reference&)': < 1320278466 958905 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1320278478 211973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ouch, wtf is that crap? < 1320278479 120811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -n A; echo "99) x" | cut -d')' -f2- | tail -c +1; echo -n B < 1320278480 811118 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A x \ B < 1320278490 456917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -n A; echo "99) x" | cut -d')' -f2- | tail -c +2; echo -n B < 1320278492 238419 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ax \ B < 1320278508 609106 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as you already know, libreoffice < 1320278513 629714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/QDQC < 1320278515 44636 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-03 00:01:54 URL:http://sprunge.us/QDQC [241] -> "QDQC" [1] < 1320278516 548209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, is someone applying java style com.sun.whatever to C++ code? < 1320278517 132231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1320278520 694621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv QDQC bin/delquote; chmod +x bin/delquote < 1320278522 657155 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320278524 856535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just gross < 1320278528 592441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote haha moron mountain < 1320278530 231518 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :705) haha moron mountain < 1320278533 8110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320278535 26967 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* haha moron mountain < 1320278538 656266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278540 975114 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :401) [...] So it'll be a while before the boob will touch you back. < 1320278541 760428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278543 356123 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :140) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. < 1320278546 480136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278547 464389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278548 58705 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :31) I am not on the moon. < 1320278549 465188 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :320) it is from 2002 though, I was younger then < 1320278556 425597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320278558 188895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278561 513329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: idiot < 1320278562 138616 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :550) like i could ask how many "petals" are there on each of the "flowers" on this coffee mug i just made a drink with but that would be NP hard I think < 1320278562 264922 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* I am not on the moon. < 1320278565 608712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1320278582 914805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: `quote as i `unquote < 1320278586 950539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`undo...that < 1320278588 511236 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: undo...that: not found < 1320278590 154066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1320278591 47581 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1320278593 823537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine came after < 1320278598 825852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `quote < 1320278598 878715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `quote < 1320278598 878804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 31) I am not on the moon. < 1320278598 878848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 320) it is from 2002 though, I was younger then < 1320278598 878891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `unquote < 1320278599 723141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `quote < 1320278601 757041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I saw < 1320278602 224349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pls make `revert go to last revision, thanks < 1320278631 622679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 812 < 1320278632 799186 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320278645 280470 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 31 < 1320278647 272568 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :31) I am not on the moon. < 1320278664 366195 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320278711 656020 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278713 693484 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :268) gah, why does lose keep winning? < 1320278728 599263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278730 513740 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :254) are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full < 1320278742 215092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278744 53713 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :83) I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1320278752 853016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that what already has? < 1320278759 985581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320278762 236460 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad quote < 1320278762 289258 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1320278763 240847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1320278765 862509 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 82 < 1320278766 471465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278766 861266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1320278767 958596 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :82) hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling < 1320278777 604584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278782 412579 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :697) Can you file for univorce if you are unmarried and don't like yourself anymore? < 1320278787 166156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1320278790 567275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278795 106604 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :358) what telnets are there [...] where are a list of telnets? < 1320278795 342812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stop clogging it < 1320278798 22751 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :63) if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has < 1320278798 764271 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320278802 603352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1320278819 483731 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320278825 295122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320278828 104546 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-13.txt:01:49:52: 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 8) TODO: sex life \ 66) What else is there to vim besides editing commands? \ 90) I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed \ 92) Where's the link to the log? < 1320278828 263134 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :99) oklopol geez what are you doing here ...i don't know :< i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things... < 1320278852 891128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said no output then gave you the lock entry? < 1320278854 487258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1320278861 234183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The most risky part of the intensional model is the use of hash < 1320278861 349632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewriting. It comes as a shock to some that this even works, i.e., < 1320278861 583781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn’t produce broken binaries. In [2], we even wrote that “patch- < 1320278861 636568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing files [by rewriting hashes] is unlikely to work in general, e.g., < 1320278861 636729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to internal checksums on files being invalidated in the process.” < 1320278862 211375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that this assessment was too pessimistic." < 1320278913 777225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only installers and unpackers and such really check internal checksums < 1320278919 459156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my experience < 1320278938 862187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think .jars will break < 1320278940 917705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: META-INF < 1320278946 430241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just trash META-INF < 1320278961 842938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, the .jars don't need ELF patching < 1320278968 845649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't even make sense < 1320278987 917681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this isn't talking about ELF patching, what makes you think it is < 1320279000 403903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1320279001 380178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1320279005 375791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is about rewriting references to a fake prefix after the fact < 1320279008 385471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the prefix depends on the output < 1320279015 494498 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320279029 781294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if it the length ends up wrong or such for the embedded string < 1320279038 69823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the part being replaced is a hash < 1320279042 454227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320279063 988446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the use of it? < 1320279090 207676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: content-based addressing for safe sharing of binary builds between multiple users from possibly-untrusted sources in Nix < 1320279100 643489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320279169 166295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (without mutual trust between users) < 1320279219 676469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1320279291 8701 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320279352 73359 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1320279369 589616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :higuys < 1320279377 922902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log sincere idle thought < 1320279383 309643 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-03.txt:00:16:17: `log sincere idle thought < 1320279391 926141 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log idle thought < 1320279397 344491 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006-08-20.txt:01:09:41: Just idle thought. < 1320279505 234528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ? < 1320279521 265672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Anyway, re: < 1320279522 936125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:32:55: ...you haven't seen Cascade yet? < 1320279523 169912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:33:08: Go watch that, then the first [S] of the intermission < 1320279523 222235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:33:35: ....I'm watching it right now, obviously. < 1320279523 222435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:33:38: as I just talked about it loading... < 1320279533 199376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ugh read the logs sheesh you'll totally understand why I just did that. < 1320279537 302105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sgeo was surprised because Cascade has been out since the 25th and everyone has seen it by now. < 1320279563 73376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is untrendy. < 1320279590 800037 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got tired of waiting for updates so I took a break from homestuck. < 1320279602 515306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then finally decided since cool new stuff is happening I should check it out. < 1320279624 464755 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately none of this makes any difference in the outcome of, well, anything. < 1320279626 336269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You realise the hiatus was announced ahead of time? < 1320279631 48556 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1320279649 446900 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring more to waiting in general. < 1320279661 411350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just going to forget about Homestuck and then revisit once a new mass of updates had surfaced. < 1320279708 164197 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a way to short circuit my impatience. :D < 1320279755 438337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/eelcovisser/367433201/ < 1320279757 887153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need me one of these. < 1320279760 514475 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320279788 78414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think instead you need < 1320279788 777899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0-b7ADnCqWs/S8JVH96_M1I/AAAAAAAAAG0/Eb1T9FutITM/s1600/rims.jpg < 1320279792 190827 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these dope rims. < 1320279849 723817 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could the feature of Swiss Ephemeris to make fictitious planets be used to calculate the Ecclesiastical moon or the positions of where artificial satellites are supposed to be? < 1320279860 493981 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you need a step ladder to get in that thing. < 1320279877 33966 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe somewhere in that blurry pixelation is a step-up bar. < 1320279889 456839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.flickr.com/photos/eelcovisser/367433201/ <-- is that a 4-power cord PSU? < 1320279905 863936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware more than 2 power cords for a PSU existed < 1320279918 106882 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware rims could be quite this dope. < 1320279921 538379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just four PSUs. < 1320279933 670020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1320279962 428055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, is that a weird no-air tyre? < 1320279982 107593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. They may just be really thin. < 1320280002 420053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they certainly don't look inflated. < 1320280014 185393 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, too many pixels and not enough tire to discern. < 1320280018 450967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot-swappable PSUs are infinitely cool btw < 1320280041 184864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, don't you agree? < 1320280049 24374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you have a spare computer. < 1320280054 670310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1320280059 792421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need a build farm. < 1320280072 605747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as a mindless tool I must agree. < 1320280077 920558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not anything that would be useful to you. A pentium 3 with a dead hdd. < 1320280084 758981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great! It's build1. < 1320280086 575856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have any other IDE disk < 1320280099 55790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can just netboot and run from RAM. < 1320280099 756486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and VGA is dead on it < 1320280107 872133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a server, don't need a display! < 1320280108 278411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 256 MB RAM iirc < 1320280115 350762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can compile very small packages. < 1320280116 169660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slowly. < 1320280135 331605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1320280141 540189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have that imac iirc < 1320280143 464234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that < 1320280150 875463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1320280166 450522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway this is a non-issue until you actually have a working distro < 1320280169 521693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what a typical American drives. http://aofg.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/08/rims.jpg < 1320280170 857028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and it can't boot from usb iirc. < 1320280192 88477 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 miles to and from work every day. < 1320280212 133534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I doubt they drive something with tyres like that. < 1320280212 613813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have a first model ibook with 64 MB RAM too < 1320280228 705749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hahahahaha tyres < 1320280231 78126 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, < 1320280236 996259 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<--- PRIMARY SOURCE < 1320280241 399822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally reliable. < 1320280270 291802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an eyewitness to native American (read: not the amerind kind) practices. < 1320280354 661659 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That is more accurate than I want to admit. < 1320280364 302203 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some morons actually drive with tires like that. < 1320280376 79793 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen it on an SUV, but hey. < 1320280589 543217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers retyring to bed soon. < 1320280642 816252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You realise there are about two countries on the globe that say "tire", right? < 1320280643 971794 :calamari!~jeffryj@32.97.110.61 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320280694 490360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well we both say "tire" I'm pretty sure. < 1320280702 831443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1320280740 978887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need ops so I can kick CakeProphet. < 1320280771 477419 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Which country are you from, anyways? < 1320280795 650573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the United States of America. < 1320280840 461325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's probably bettre that you don't have ops. < 1320280843 942163 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Tire" is the more etymologically correct spelling. It derives from Middle English "tire". :) < 1320280858 962837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're the more etymologically correct poop. < 1320280889 648738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys should I move on to the loooong thesis I'm so lazy. < 1320280904 689921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :long thesis is looooong. < 1320281071 924296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You've convinced me, phd-thesis.pdf is oooopened. < 1320281076 195751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Read this thesis for me? < 1320281078 938300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lazy. < 1320281097 673507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how you could handle regular expressions like: < 1320281124 310821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, is Eelco a common name in some country? This guy is called Eelco and so is his supervisor. < 1320281126 224608 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(long|.*) .* is (lo+ng|\1) < 1320281150 7808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You don't. < 1320281152 365725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where if the first choice in the first group is picked the first choice in the second group is forced. < 1320281165 458255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even do ".* .* is lo+ng". < 1320281169 457913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1320281173 594511 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without resorting to the usual Perl hacks. < 1320281175 409597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can but it probably doesn't mean what you want. < 1320281184 846574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends, I guess. < 1320281188 714813 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well s/[.]/\S/g < 1320281205 845670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The results of the present thesis < 1320281205 965439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are probably not what any of us had expected at the start; but then again, the nice thing < 1320281206 17837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a term like “variability” is that it can take you in so many directions." < 1320281250 95581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :variably many directions, perhaps. < 1320281305 532094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The #klaplopers provided a nice work environment in virtual space—though whether IRC < 1320281305 730664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a medium that increases productivity remains an unanswered empirical question." < 1320281401 972674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one way to do it would be to have a way to tag lists of alternate choices. lists with like tags must match on the choice with the same index in their respective lists (requesting better wording) < 1320281406 387374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my God, this is the longest thing. < 1320281419 849769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Are you sure that regexp doesn't actually work in Perl already? < 1320281430 810089 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably better than using conditional patterns or state stuff. < 1320281431 857030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. /(long|\S+) .* is (lo+ng|\1)/ < 1320281458 828029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it does, yes... < 1320281469 568869 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1320281470 589069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for < 1320281475 850572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah cat is looooooong < 1320281479 300234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not intended < 1320281491 359655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only blah cat is blah < 1320281555 133809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: /(\S+) \S+ is \1|long \S+ is lo+ng/ < 1320281582 202833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that quickly becomes unreasonable if the pattern becomes more complex but requires the same logic. < 1320281640 364503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure Perl has some special variable for specifically such construct. < 1320281643 412679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1320281647 867602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This thesis is about getting computer programs from one machine to another—and having < 1320281648 139382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :them still work when they get there." < 1320281664 312879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this thesis is about portability" < 1320281669 553086 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have me as their editor. < 1320281729 915190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did you see my bps question btw? < 1320281735 742913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, it's nothing to do with portability at all. < 1320281879 427487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes they already have a tagging thing sort of. you can use (*MARK:NAME) and the (*SKIP:NAME) or something < 1320282007 88195 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1320282079 24066 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320282690 534420 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mrf < 1320282698 375393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hi < 1320282932 145394 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1320283984 519358 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1320284353 874254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://j-lyric.net/artist/a0006c3/l00d951.html Engrish song lyrics are so very strange. < 1320284549 525638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1320284938 958267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :gourd < 1320285015 829537 :gourd!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1320285262 610070 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even better/worse if you hear it. < 1320285380 624897 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2-d2zHMJho Yeaaah. < 1320285762 250256 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is a band that tours in the US. < 1320285864 371617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320287309 564043 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320287310 185691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320288590 406632 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye elliott < 1320288933 467548 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good riddance < 1320288940 888580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so tired < 1320289836 276175 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-18.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320290461 56656 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any such thing as ComonadPlus? < 1320291244 221153 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have Control.Monad.Zip < 1320291811 705308 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in base, I guess you have too old a ghc < 1320291821 897313 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's for monad comrephensions < 1320291824 614272 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc 7.2 or up then i guess < 1320292290 265423 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-41.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1320292293 398744 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320293386 140098 :sxfil!~androirc@gprs-inet-65-41.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320294414 892473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320294549 339987 :sxfil!~androirc@gprs-inet-65-41.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: begone < 1320294820 43688 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what thesis < 1320294837 230855 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nix < 1320294839 304323 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thesis < 1320294842 465031 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nix thesis < 1320294873 89400 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phd-thesis.pdf good name < 1320295128 272037 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320296298 823029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320296350 150829 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When are more evening school assignments will be posted? < 1320296378 691676 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you aren't running a Markov bot, are you? < 1320296396 313917 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not running a Markov bot. < 1320296542 715001 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320296606 1419 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you aren't the Markov bot, are you? < 1320296644 230736 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I ask because your previous question was not grammatically correct, and this is often caused by running a Markov bot. < 1320296765 269786 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: like half the things said in here are grammatically incorrect < 1320296780 755008 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yeah but most of them make sense all the same < 1320296787 82350 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1320296788 486070 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that last one < 1320296789 837717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did zzo38 not make sense < 1320296796 959286 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you clearly don't read the channel enough when me and monqy are around < 1320296797 428938 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1320296801 782280 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what zzo said made perfect sense < 1320296820 304380 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it really doesn't < 1320296825 754076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1320296826 973914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see topic < 1320296827 419579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since he's asking this channel < 1320296832 260752 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the current evening school assignments < 1320296833 368271 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1320296838 564468 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is asking when more will be posted < 1320296846 67397 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit do I have to do them? < 1320296846 537031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it make sense to elliott_ but it doesn't make sense to coppro. < 1320296848 142592 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you paid attention more, you would understand things said in the channel more! < 1320296998 213414 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you didn't answer my question < 1320297001 477053 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also attention is for losers < 1320297004 883854 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which question < 1320297018 56003 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :< coopro> dammit do I have to do them? < 1320297023 506548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coopro < 1320297024 316107 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/oo/op/ < 1320297030 709726 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooooooopro < 1320297034 19510 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was addressed at me? anyway, yes < 1320297034 372660 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coproo < 1320297035 658699 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poocro < 1320297041 61521 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because coppro means poop4 < 1320297062 545180 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1320297082 789116 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're easy; the underload ones at least < 1320297285 613052 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at 1 first < 1320297292 403830 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor is trivial since you have nand < 1320297350 839119 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to think on the wire-crossing problem < 1320297353 488491 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't spoil it) < 1320297391 803548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: haven't done the circuite ones :) < 1320297400 469280 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload is my one true love :') < 1320297627 807923 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: also the NOT gate there is overcomplicated < 1320297639 168665 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just link a cell up to a constant 1 < 1320297728 604820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell atehwa, not me :) < 1320297783 200907 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did atehwa write these? < 1320297819 350908 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see that he did < 1320297820 287883 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1320297826 696094 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: he's the one doing the school < 1320297844 455803 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might find it helpful to swim to helsinki < 1320297881 46279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1320297885 817722 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should give a talk on esolangs < 1320297907 959099 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: also you went idle in BN < 1320297914 532410 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been 7 days? < 1320297915 557415 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you haven't yet < 1320297919 976321 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you haven't done anything in 5 < 1320297934 376223 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably for the best for now, I'm a bit busy < 1320297939 109347 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully I'll return before the end of the dynasty < 1320298217 283375 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure you can't cross wires in circuite < 1320298223 518773 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm off to read more about combinatorial designs < 1320299294 240844 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Circute is a cellular automaton (and quite arguably an esoteric programming language) developed by Chris Pressey in 2005 as a test of the wire-crossing problem." < 1320299294 521530 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so duh < 1320299300 162566 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that a spoiler < 1320299301 904523 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry :) < 1320299319 226848 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ^^^ HEY DON'T READ THE ABOVE ^^^ < 1320299462 138460 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that. < 1320299466 633070 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D redstone pretty much. < 1320299477 331088 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D* < 1320299486 845544 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders < 1320299491 610221 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a 2D wire crossing in Redstone/ < 1320299515 31506 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1320299752 203451 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1320299796 252311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are now graced with my absence." isn't that an evincar thing? < 1320300281 238190 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently reading about: Agda < 1320300352 125099 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh maybe it client default < 1320300377 878246 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :< 1320127749 343527 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Quit: I give you the gift of lack of me. < 1320300380 506128 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope different!!! < 1320300961 909026 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1320301340 191036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1320301428 835293 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320301429 188523 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1320301429 240832 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1320302631 890023 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320302900 786427 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1320303273 980288 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1320303571 882221 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320303709 296170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is my birthday today < 1320303753 322637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy prime age! < 1320303763 513160 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the prime of my life < 1320303778 336929 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: die :( < 1320303780 498037 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have been for quarter of an hour < 1320303795 313698 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, stop being so young. < 1320303802 526514 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think you know everything! < 1320303803 133880 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, monqy's younger. < 1320303805 516746 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also cooler. :'( < 1320303806 521353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: 16 is a very powerful age too < 1320303808 840751 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mediocre. < 1320303811 394202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when you get to my age... < 1320303812 251340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fourth power, even < 1320303826 166387 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I need ops so I can kick you < 1320303844 428421 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are y'all? < 1320303848 114072 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 < 1320303864 522599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfulfilled needs, the bane of 16-year olds everywhere < 1320303866 343036 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is actually a ghost. < 1320303868 206472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :4| < 1320303871 534265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1320303875 68294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*41 < 1320303882 711393 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wow you're 41 already? < 1320303884 230651 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So old. So dead. < 1320303892 176197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Brains...* < 1320303894 558066 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION murders elliott_  < 1320303904 624958 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'm a ghost you can't murder me that makes no sense. < 1320303912 194975 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it does < 1320303921 682110 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought me a special ghost-murdering knife < 1320303924 335337 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said so on the package < 1320303932 638291 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :"works on ghosts or your money back" < 1320303943 640189 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as seen on TV" < 1320303979 402699 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You might want to get your money back. Also ghosts can't appear on TV, they're ghosts. < 1320303984 361360 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contractual stuff, you wouldn't understand. < 1320303987 885270 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dead lawyer < 1320303998 766860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: they're depending on you not being able to prove no ghosts were killed, since they're invisible < 1320304029 439845 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION commits suicide to murder elliott_ in the afterlife < 1320304037 452325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :best plan. < 1320304042 426229 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit < 1320304043 522186 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we are on the same plane < 1320304051 550128 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE POWER OVER YOU ONCE MORE < 1320304055 229427 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You'd make a good nomic player. Well, if you didn't commit suicide. < 1320304066 452263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Has anyone ever committed suicide for a nomic scam? oerjan?) < 1320304079 542107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not me. < 1320304152 124306 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH REALLY :| < 1320304185 870944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get some of that ethereal vision philter i just read about in yafgc < 1320304221 933922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it became swiftly clear during my current binge that it is not what you call nsfw) < 1320304227 867458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately i'm not working < 1320304235 968361 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what you call nsfw < 1320304237 560900 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so sfw then < 1320304243 233388 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1320304246 586451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-not < 1320304247 519933 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to read it at work! < 1320304257 472962 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOooooooooo oerjan got me fired from dead lawyering. < 1320304263 187977 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you reading the IWC rerun :P < 1320304281 443126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, especially when i realized he's adding new annotations < 1320304282 880700 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-86-207.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320304290 353882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm terribly afraid I'm going to end up following the whole thing to its completion < 1320304310 971463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that will take > 10 years i think < 1320304319 306332 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um IWC didn't run for ten years... < 1320304327 71009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but... < 1320304327 526430 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-86-207.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did < 1320304334 208238 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1320304334 299572 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-86-207.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just short of < 1320304337 945935 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not just short of :P < 1320304339 743133 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-86-207.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001-2011 < 1320304344 482462 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1320304344 862424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (7/6) * 3198 / 365.25 < 1320304345 656351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.21492128678987 < 1320304345 708764 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irregularwebcomic.net/archive.html < 1320304347 276158 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one comic in 2002 < 1320304352 540297 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then regularly 2003 onwards < 1320304356 134342 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 8 years < 1320304358 39564 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-86-207.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory is playing tricks on me < 1320304365 784565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it becomes just > 10 when you adjust for the 7 to 6 days per week shift < 1320304374 819300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right. < 1320304378 675318 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, I gotta lot of time. < 1320304380 840306 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-104.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1320304391 724519 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (does this mean he's going to be writing blog posts for /ten years/?0 < 1320304393 387588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/0/)/ < 1320304400 877063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320304419 13020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will probably be readjustments. < 1320304453 265100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, in 3-4 years d&d may end < 1320304547 367031 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and then Mezzacotta :P < 1320304612 864270 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: omg today's mezzacotta :D < 1320304627 68368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that again -> < 1320304660 29523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad sci guy always gets my vote < 1320304833 939533 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1320304884 82345 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I think Mezzacotta's random date thing is strongly biased against ridiculously old dates... < 1320304889 363944 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1320304907 44552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i think that's called "uniform distribution" < 1320304925 879065 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har < 1320304933 314786 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but seriously, the vast majority of results are before 10000 BC < 1320304936 885172 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-86-207.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320304940 368224 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects weighting < 1320304961 217792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, that's what you'd expect if there were _no_ weighting < 1320305004 146497 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um... no? < 1320305008 128288 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more of the past than the present < 1320305012 73942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1320305014 146180 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/before/after/ < 1320305023 667702 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not an idiot, but cannot type :P < 1320305033 147597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. < 1320305046 787998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, definitely < 1320305059 759297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read your "against" as "towards" < 1320305066 754489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1320305067 817858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same word in norwegian) < 1320305084 220077 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=random < 1320305085 716267 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1320305086 627916 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1320305088 935896 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1614-12-27 < 1320305090 935690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ the best < 1320305121 685143 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1693-05-03 :D < 1320305154 206162 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1506-01-04 < 1320305160 611042 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clicking random makes me feel weird < 1320305165 525545 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=193-08-23 is a random one I clicked on < 1320305218 983820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clicking random makes me feel weird < 1320305220 613081 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :????????????? < 1320305258 957832 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if I don't bookmark it or something, in all likelihood, it will never be seen again < 1320305280 668520 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers when he was young, he wanted to record all die rolls etc. for Monopoly games < 1320305281 97512 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Other comics that will never be seen again: ones you don't see at all. < 1320305292 450885 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, you must archive binge Mezzacotta to avoid the same weirdness. < 1320305337 368966 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will archive binge Mezzacotta, and won't eat or sleep until he's done < 1320305350 732126 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that solves that problem. < 1320305358 90194 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does being dead count as being done? < 1320305370 375160 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, even then, I still won't eat or sleep, so it's all good < 1320305432 576104 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Obayashi recalled that his producer told him that Toho was tired of losing money on comprehensible films and were ready to let Obayashi direct the House script, which they felt was incomprehensible." < 1320305475 285544 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1320305718 88768 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.229.74 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1320308106 915406 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320311130 463960 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could make instance Alternative IO now, allowing you to use many, some, optional. empty = fail []; x <|> y = catch x $ \e -> modifyIOError (\z -> if z == userError [] then e else z) y; < 1320312150 911960 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1320313125 917174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the way of pure code exceptions in GHC. But I do have another idea: mkPure :: Q Exp -> Q Exp; instance Applicative Pure; runPure :: Pure t -> Either SomeException t; < 1320313227 234276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :runPureIO :: Pure t -> IO t; < 1320313428 550486 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1320313439 159496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320314138 687909 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: true, but I thought it would give more hints as to how to make a XOR gate. < 1320314542 381395 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott That's some gouda cheese! < 1320314542 780860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320314559 989934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1320316054 684102 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1320319130 684978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320319349 560588 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1320319881 620431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so today I learned that when you have a red parent and a black uncle, you rotate right around your grandparent. < 1320319909 232363 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well left or right, depending on where you are. < 1320320066 149336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes perfect sense. < 1320320143 879593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your grandparent magically becomes red and your parent becomes black < 1320320909 867571 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's how communism propagates. < 1320321053 700992 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, in my data structures class we often devolved to race-related humor. < 1320321060 248725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you know, we're Americans. < 1320321069 869355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knew colors could be so humorous! < 1320321131 82655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, the professor said that the parent node "goes black" to which a student commented, "once you go black, you never go back." < 1320321136 179094 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :priceless American humour < 1320321165 598154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they play you the red-black tree song in class? < 1320321329 432289 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no. < 1320321335 333282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that. < 1320321336 936466 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should have. < 1320321349 4141 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I see a brand new node / I want to paint it black." < 1320321372 263461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1320321374 712926 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.washington.edu/orgs/student-affairs/cseband/ "Red Black Tree Song" < 1320321386 42673 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1320321388 963022 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am assuming it's the one I know of, didn't listen.) < 1320321428 643317 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, how many people have done songs about red-black trees?) < 1320321442 334848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....lol < 1320321457 831938 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1320321465 854936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotating subtrees has never sounded so beautiful. < 1320321916 523639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it sad that I know AT LEAST 4 CS majors in real life < 1320321924 91458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of them would appreciate this song. < 1320321933 581181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am alone. ;_; < 1320322075 834553 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you don't ignore constant factors, red-black is O(2log(n)) and AVL is O(log(n)) < 1320322091 572562 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, technicall speaking, AVL trees /are/ more efficient, it's just that no one cares about constant factors. < 1320322154 341497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AVL trees are often compared with red-black trees because they support the same set of operations and because red-black trees also take O(log n) time for the basic operations. Because AVL trees are more rigidly balanced, they are faster than red-black trees for lookup intensive applications.[3] However, red-black trees are faster for insertion and removal.[citation needed]. < 1320322172 255495 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good reliable information from wikipedia < 1320322876 457399 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1320324403 669869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1320325008 261485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320325289 684549 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320325293 596906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1320325294 521368 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1320327057 173373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320327412 131523 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1320327424 292709 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320327438 231086 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320327459 450536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320327475 679998 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can meet people over the Internet (oh God, can you), but something in our monkey brains makes in-the-flesh meeting a bigger thing." < 1320327485 47386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/ < 1320327495 857363 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll agree with that < 1320327515 617469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternative title: how to hate programming for a living but make a lot of money. < 1320327524 157766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like useful advice so far. < 1320327599 888710 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted the goal of this article seems to be not getting stuck in a dead-end job, but moving forward until you get to the interesting things. < 1320327701 197034 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "focus on how you can make revenue or reduce costs" bit seems to make a lot of sense. But what if you the employer is more interested in the challenging technical problems you've solved? < 1320327866 244797 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, it's my birthday, isn't it? < 1320327876 468596 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be. < 1320327884 240879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are there any like... < 1320327889 331953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML "IDEs"? < 1320327895 183060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that make HTML not a pain in the ass? < 1320327911 809304 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they make bad HTML < 1320327923 362906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I want to write the HTML < 1320327926 702629 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have things that make that easier. < 1320327928 458960 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1320327932 682878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I want to write Django templates. < 1320327934 297173 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluefish? < 1320327935 132766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever. < 1320327967 914919 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a normal text editor. Could I just use emacs with some bitchin' HTML mode instead. < 1320328047 888570 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not all too familiar with emacs < 1320328047 945722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/nXhtml/doc/nxhtml.html < 1320328049 821339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks good. < 1320328087 315746 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually emacs html-mode itself has some convenience things. < 1320328092 80487 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried one of them fancy text editors once, couldn't stay focused enough to get the hang of it < 1320328101 92066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c C-a < 1320328102 75767 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactively insert attribute values for the current tag (sgml-attributes). < 1320328124 186121 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320328139 564456 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c C-f < 1320328140 288963 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skip across a balanced tag group (which extends from an opening tag through its corresponding closing tag) (sgml-skip-tag-forward). A numeric argument acts as a repeat count. < 1320328147 665447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good. < 1320328176 120391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c C-d < 1320328176 880633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete the tag at or after point, and delete the matching tag too (sgml-delete-tag). If the tag at or after point is an opening tag, delete the closing tag too; if it is a closing tag, delete the opening tag too. < 1320328181 130217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also excellent. < 1320328222 987744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I did before I started using emacs.. < 1320328232 195792 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible terrible things. < 1320328275 419733 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dude it even has like docs. C-c ? tagname < 1320328282 896641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, radical. < 1320328293 889410 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try to use Emacs? < 1320328298 238129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I recommend it. < 1320328314 159750 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah! < 1320328315 239403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not terribly complicated. Though I'm sure I don't use every single feature available. < 1320328319 671247 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which emacs package do I want! < 1320328325 309269 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * emacs23 < 1320328325 539218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * emacs23-nox < 1320328325 591826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * e3 < 1320328325 592020 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * emacs-snapshot < 1320328325 592130 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * emacs-snapshot-nox < 1320328326 945555 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * emacs23-lucid < 1320328328 528753 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : * jove < 1320328331 458889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs23 probably. < 1320328384 693582 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-v for example is page down, M-v is page up. C-a is beginning of line, C-e is end of line. C-k deletes (actually cuts) everything on the after the cursor < 1320328397 751345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A couple of months ago I realised that I could touchtype pretty accurately without looking at the keyboard < 1320328401 426735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty quickly too < 1320328415 111628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-y is paste, M-y after C-y starts going through old pastes. < 1320328432 11365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you've got an out of place line. < 1320328453 312561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just go to it. then C-a, C-k, move to where you want it to go, C-y < 1320328479 696954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing now < 1320328500 162030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile your counterpart in another universe is reaching for the mouse or doing weird awkward key combinations. < 1320328511 141504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or using vi < 1320328519 342217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. yeah I don't know anything about vi. < 1320328527 966134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it more confusing than emacs. < 1320328531 920931 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was the one I tried...? < 1320328533 370906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1320328567 993648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that's been kind of awkward is that Django repeats a lot of file names in different directories < 1320328570 878888 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, this emacs tutorial looks familiar < 1320328578 102694 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so switching around to other files has been somewhat more annoying than usual. < 1320328622 4641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I even use C-x C-b which I normally don't use. < 1320328648 47108 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: also you can play tetris. < 1320328659 825820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while your "code compiles" (see: xkcd) < 1320328665 339942 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a friend who uses emacs < 1320328671 361 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primarily for that purpouse < 1320328683 195551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to play tetris instead of doing actual work? < 1320328689 14246 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has its advantages, certainly < 1320328690 98315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1320328722 446195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also having multiple windows (what would normally be called panes or whatever) is awesome. < 1320328775 607105 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usually you end wanting to browse two or three source files at a time, or two source files and some docs, etc, etc < 1320328784 46216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/end/\1 up/ < 1320328807 997872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :three source files, two docs, a shell, and tetris < 1320328969 153140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c / < 1320328970 310546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert a close tag for the innermost unterminated tag (sgml-close-tag). If called from within a tag or a comment, close this element instead of inserting a close tag. < 1320328973 991123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap that's awesome. < 1320329019 190093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1320329029 719838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guys who made html-mode hate the same things that I hate about HTML. < 1320329041 287376 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320329051 150881 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you wrote it? < 1320329065 241820 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320329068 844544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM THE FUTURE < 1320329116 906781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c C-n < 1320329117 34250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactively specify a special character and insert the SGML ‘&’-command for that character (sgml-name-char). < 1320329119 910730 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessssss < 1320329161 910883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < is fewer keys than C-c C-n < :P < 1320329179 506818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320329189 387116 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harder to memorise, though < 1320329271 586864 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you know a modicum of HTML syntax. < 1320329313 220626 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's easier to memorise C-c C-n [char] than a list of thingies < 1320329318 525390 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right. < 1320329353 46634 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c C-n " is equivalent to " though honestly I tend to think of key combinations as the same amount of work as typing a single key. < 1320329374 435385 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as my left hand is pretty much always hovering over shift, ctrl, and alt. < 1320329411 925960 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type weird. :P < 1320329422 627253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though typing weird is beneficial when programming. < 1320329487 267164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I can't really touch type very well. It's very easy for me to start jioyy the weron ley < 1320329527 227282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I do say though a lot. < 1320329666 711093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html < 1320329667 601159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1320329680 545600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1320329858 305707 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear for the state of the world's sanity < 1320329876 632299 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a FizzBuzz thing in what... 30 seconds? < 1320329972 866649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> if x `mod` 15 == 0 then "FizzBuzz" else (if x `mod` 3 == 0 then "Fizz" else (if x `mod` 5 == 0 then "Buzz" else show x))) [1..100] < 1320329974 90478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","2","Fizz","4","Buzz","Fizz","7","8","Fizz","Buzz","11","Fizz","13","1... < 1320329980 792552 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1320329984 465061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is /slightly/ trickier than it sounds. < 1320330020 985563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, it's not. < 1320330024 473536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have used guards personally, but that's because Haskell's if statement confuses me for some strange reason < 1320330048 424485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wasn't writing it for IRC < 1320330091 925609 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it... confuses you? < 1320330098 331296 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how < 1320330100 571801 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just does < 1320330113 280599 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320330114 605660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is weird, because I get that Banach-Tarski thing < 1320330124 110419 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that should be much more confusing < 1320330131 695976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I believe those parens are unecessary. < 1320330142 421266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> if x `mod` 15 == 0 then "FizzBuzz" else if x `mod` 3 == 0 then "Fizz" else if x `mod` 5 == 0 then "Buzz" else show x) [1..100] < 1320330143 649645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","2","Fizz","4","Buzz","Fizz","7","8","Fizz","Buzz","11","Fizz","13","1... < 1320330145 917078 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1320330201 446296 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320330254 809814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :import System.IO; import Data.List; main = putStrLn . intercalate "\n" . map (\x -> if x `mod` 15 == 0 then "FizzBuzz" else if x `mod` 3 == 0 then "Fizz" else if x `mod` 5 == 0 then "Buzz" else show x) $ [1..100] < 1320330258 801033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooo < 1320330290 400118 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map (\x -> if x `mod` 15 == 0 then "FizzBuzz" else if x `mod` 3 == 0 then "Fizz" else if x `mod` 5 == 0 then "Buzz" else show x) [1..100] < 1320330291 169150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (ap (flip if' "FizzBuzz" . (0 ==) . (`mod` 15)) (ap (flip if' "Fizz" . (0 ==) . (`mod` 3)) (ap (flip if' "Buzz" . (0 ==) . (`mod` 5)) show))) [1..100] < 1320330296 41782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful. < 1320330301 453850 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell calls themselves a programmer and struggles with this < 1320330326 989223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: note that the majority of enterprisey things require no knowledge of multiples or well anything... < 1320330339 579861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT STILL < 1320330356 536937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in a job application situation no google, etc. People rely on google heavily when programming. < 1320330358 57932 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article said Computer Science graduates!? < 1320330391 671809 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320330408 750393 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CS graduate who's been out of school for several years may have forgotten that "multiple of x and y" means "multiple of x*y" < 1320330416 40233 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a big deal as you can just use && instead. < 1320330421 150897 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320330456 925420 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I imagine people get thrown off by off-by-one errors or implementing the conditional in the wrong order so that the multiple of 15 case never occurs. This is just a simple mistake under time pressure. < 1320330557 911195 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a new phone < 1320330586 302555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1320330671 987765 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> people get thrown off by off-by-one errors < 1320330673 70427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `people'Not in scope: `thrown'Not in scope: `off'Not in scope... < 1320330677 842897 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reminded of that scp* < 1320330719 467739 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-866 < 1320330911 964793 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, my phone just guessed my postcode < 1320330957 29956 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for (1..100) { $x=0; $x++,print "Fizz" unless ($_ % 3); $x++,print "Buzz" unless $_ % 5; print unless $x; print " " } < 1320330964 388372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... :( < 1320330977 439159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying out a horrible hack. < 1320330984 380073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it would be easier just to not do horrible hacks. < 1320331000 597622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl for (1..100) { $x=0; $x++,print "Fizz" unless ($_ % 3); $x++,print "Buzz" unless $_ % 5; print unless $x; print " " } < 1320331007 398973 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Buzz Fizz 22 23 Fizz Buzz 26 Fizz 28 29 FizzBuzz 31 32 Fizz 34 Buzz Fizz 37 38 Fizz Buzz 41 Fizz 43 44 FizzBuzz 46 47 Fizz 49 Buzz Fizz 52 53 Fizz Buzz 56 Fizz 58 59 FizzBuzz 61 62 Fizz 64 Buzz Fizz 67 68 Fizz Buzz 71 Fizz 73 74 FizzBuzz 76 77 Fizz 79 Buzz < 1320331015 99329 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahahaha < 1320331029 598371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that horrible hack. < 1320331067 838202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1320331074 636845 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My phone is loading the wiki < 1320331087 585904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl for(1..100){my$x;$x++,print"Fizz"unless$_%3;$x++,print"Buzz"unless$_%5;print unless$x;print" "} < 1320331089 763193 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Buzz Fizz 22 23 Fizz Buzz 26 Fizz 28 29 FizzBuzz 31 32 Fizz 34 Buzz Fizz 37 38 Fizz Buzz 41 Fizz 43 44 FizzBuzz 46 47 Fizz 49 Buzz Fizz 52 53 Fizz Buzz 56 Fizz 58 59 FizzBuzz 61 62 Fizz 64 Buzz Fizz 67 68 Fizz Buzz 71 Fizz 73 74 FizzBuzz 76 77 Fizz 79 Buzz < 1320331093 522291 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now written with readability in mind. < 1320331372 401149 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320331477 385911 :Taneb!~androirc@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320331494 871135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my phone < 1320331509 766551 :Taneb!~androirc@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1320331597 51074 :Taneb!~androirc@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I don't need to lug around a Kindle to talk on the move < 1320331617 809500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think blackberries have much in the way of IRC clients. < 1320331657 876821 :Taneb!~androirc@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an Android < 1320331692 319571 :Taneb!~androirc@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1320331718 834956 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's hard to type on that Galaxy Mini keyboard < 1320331748 361861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tomorrow I have to be out the house by 4:30 < 1320331818 862109 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, early night for me < 1320332097 909121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :”What is your previous salary?” is employer-speak for “Please give me reasons to pay you less money.” Answer appropriately. < 1320332100 910940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looool < 1320333380 851019 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320333624 180263 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :html-mode is great. < 1320333629 890288 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :never again will I write end tags... < 1320334837 232385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1320334970 213567 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320334982 474544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's almost celebrate-that-time-when-somebody-messed-up-killing-the-king day! < 1320335054 947334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, tomorrow isn't it? < 1320335061 554294 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Day after < 1320335064 473042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320335088 979592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, why exactly is that celebrated? < 1320335105 539470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we don't have anything cool to celebrate < 1320335134 360878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : brb, ipv6 tunnel is fucked up, I suspect I will lose connection < 1320335302 574624 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1320335347 409561 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I can listen to the radio on my phone < 1320335382 231115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1320335384 932959 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster NICK :Vorpal < 1320335389 884545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, how is that surprising? < 1320335402 507782 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never been able to do that before < 1320335415 992548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, new phone? < 1320335420 483470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1320335737 193994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320335962 363947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320336084 413961 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1320336211 156163 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320336319 69690 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Americans don't understand humour, they only understand humor. < 1320336340 755307 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1320336343 464181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about Canadians? < 1320336372 589113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I am Canadian. < 1320336374 747896 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humour, I believe < 1320336388 70679 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Australians may use "humor"? < 1320336398 570148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is the Canadian spelling "humour" but I don't know Australians < 1320336411 306285 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they use "labor" < 1320336542 495045 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abhour strange spellings of things that should end with -our < 1320336557 783540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four < 1320336604 5020 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As my user page on the wiki probably doesn't say, I flick between -ize and -ise < 1320336621 351213 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the word, I think < 1320336624 77112 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colourize < 1320336625 755968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think since both spellings are in use you can use whatever you want but when you type a command into a computer you have to use the spelling that the computer accepts (some programs might accept both ways) < 1320336626 666640 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :American usage of -or and -our is totally consist-- oh wait < 1320336677 598832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it's a bit more consistent...? no... < 1320336711 69232 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have pour and not por. < 1320336756 380538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess -our is etymologically correct for words with French origin, I think? < 1320336761 851743 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know anything about French. < 1320336887 337546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway AMERICA IS THE BEST etc < 1320336909 819850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all of our conventions are different from everyone elses. < 1320336918 769489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but EVERYONE LIKES OUR MOVIES HAHAHAHAHA SUCKERS. < 1320337005 173293 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, most of the actors in Star Wars were British < 1320337037 450698 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320337049 742501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The body of Darth Vader, for example < 1320337051 372805 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've defeated me with your one specific example. < 1320337074 129868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the British version of the Italian Job was so much better than the remake < 1320337078 482344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about actors and not movies. < 1320337088 465677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well, that's true. < 1320337097 512992 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's true for many remakes regardless of nation. < 1320337108 694398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Shaun of the Dead was very good < 1320337122 421092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As was Hot Fuzz < 1320337131 115589 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: "hey, we make good movies too!" < 1320337150 806545 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it should be Nge "hey, we make good movies too!" vd < 1320337165 564627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I was quoting you. < 1320337170 281476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't an IRC ping thing < 1320337171 711402 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Discordian calendar do you prefer, the literal or standard? < 1320337174 254877 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1320337205 507085 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was only familiar with one calendar. I presume the standard one < 1320337361 285762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I always use THE OFFICIAL DISCORDIAN DOCUMENT NUMBERING SYSTEM. < 1320337591 847511 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320337605 80141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1320337606 771464 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1320337628 763844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the standard calendar, 1 Chaos is always Jan 1 of the Gregorian calendar, while the literal calendar has 1 Chaos 3136 on Jan 1, 1970 and has St. Tib's day exactly once every four years (as the Julian calendar does), which is what the document says. This contradicts the heading but follows the instructions precisely. < 1320337866 744819 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320338429 656511 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1320338634 133030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, hilarious thing happening on the Internet: Nintendo are releasing a new Dream World Pokémon and asking people to vote on what it should be; the competitive community have found a loophole in the voting system allowing it to be manipulated, but their attempts to manipulate it are breaking down into arguments as to what exactly they should manipulate /for/ < 1320338655 669642 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1320338730 75139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is mostly between Pokémon-that-is-already-good-and-this-would-make-it-even-better, and Pokémon-that-currently-sucks-and-this-would-make-excellent < 1320338764 170436 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would go for the latter < 1320338772 327697 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luvdisc < 1320338782 58460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't make Luvdisc good < 1320338787 335198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter Pokémon is Ditto < 1320338806 262786 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know what Dream World Pokemon are < 1320338836 221296 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really kept track of it since Platinum was released < 1320338854 764945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only competitive difference is that they have a different ability to usual, and that if they're male, you can't breed egg moves onto them < 1320338864 932672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't care. I don't like the Dream World mode anyways < 1320338891 270867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are only finitely many possibilities for each ability (small finite, it caps out at 4), and Ditto is a choice of 1 of 2 < 1320338906 486678 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo adds everything they keep mixing it up. No! They should only change it when releasing a new game. < 1320338908 188946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are assuming it'd get the ability currently unavailable on it, as otherwise it'd just be a normal Ditto < 1320338933 817167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Imposter Ditto is already known to be top-tier (if you aren't playing with banned Pokémon), and possibly even strong enough to ban < 1320339092 857243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ban? Wouldn't it make more sense to rebalance? < 1320339116 821069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can't, umm, modify the game's idea of what a Pokémon's stats are without hacking? < 1320339133 754519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant for Nintendo to release a balance patch < 1320339141 62095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on a DS cartridge game? < 1320339144 883143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1320339145 941403 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1320339147 229653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make the random game? Everyone start random during each match < 1320339155 500964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's been made < 1320339166 267184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as fun as the intended way of playing, though < 1320339183 607336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's mostly a case of hoping that you have an attacking move that actually does decent damage < 1320339231 264474 :Guest63524!~butt@ANantes-259-1-157-136.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1320339260 538071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, Windows 7 fails to detect the PS/2 keyboard except after a warm reboot. < 1320339267 21024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1320339268 132933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf could cause that < 1320339293 94330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it works fine in linux. And it works fine after warm reboot from either windows login screen or from linux < 1320339299 618407 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-147-243.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1320339327 853843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you warm rebooting it without a working keyboard? < 1320339606 90399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is because Windows code relies on the magical properties of its reboot to function properly < 1320339621 119741 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code itself is shit, but after a reboot everything works fine. always. < 1320339636 789547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sagenods < 1320339728 383615 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM "* CakeProphet nods sagely." you lazy 'sagenodding' non-sage. < 1320339730 735449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : > map (\x -> if x `mod` 15 == 0 then "FizzBuzz" else (if x `mod` 3 == 0 then "Fizz" else (if x `mod` 5 == 0 then "Buzz" else show x))) [1..100] < 1320339808 81175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [case gcd x 15 of 1 -> show x; 3 -> "Fizz"; 5 -> "Buzz"; 15 -> "FizzBuzz" | x <- [1..100]] < 1320339809 158660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","2","Fizz","4","Buzz","Fizz","7","8","Fizz","Buzz","11","Fizz","13","1... < 1320339954 274284 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320339962 202660 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais < 1320339971 796179 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bd < 1320339985 614953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah much better. < 1320339989 937785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not as efficient I think? < 1320339993 104396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter really. < 1320339995 655404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not. < 1320340018 888792 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try those list comprehension things, one of these days. < 1320340023 669408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for efficiency, you could also do a case match on x `mod` 15 < 1320340027 875912 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PART :#esoteric < 1320340029 985844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be longer < 1320340045 370192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1320340093 841238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : how are you warm rebooting it without a working keyboard? <-- by clicking "shutdown" with the mouse on the login screen and then selecting reboot from the menu that pops up < 1320340125 166341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was siddiq someone you actually knew? < 1320340126 607618 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mouse? I am enthralled. Show me your ways. < 1320340131 886941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how do you get past the press control-alt-delete thing? < 1320340138 529931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, windows 7 doesn't do that? < 1320340156 846266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weird < 1320340168 365181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its purpose is to prevent people spoofing the login screen (the userland can't react to control-alt-delete) < 1320340173 264255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the ctrl-alt-del thing is for domain logins only these days I think. Ever seen the XP welcome screen? < 1320340180 418934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't use that ctrl-alt-del either < 1320340182 267727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1320340184 622240 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know XP doesn't ask for CTRL+ALT+DEL by default but it can be configured to do so. < 1320340196 573348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xp didn't ask by default indeed < 1320340207 517454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what I see is the windows 7 take on the xp welcome screen. < 1320340208 374695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: how do you get past the press control-alt-delete thing? < 1320340208 648428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1320340213 435659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only networked machines do that < 1320340219 303935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a non-default setting < 1320340234 817938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or ones configured to it anyway. It was fairly easy to make an xp machine do it iirc. < 1320340235 828492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I configured my computer to ask CTRL+ALT+DEL < 1320340251 310872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :select non-welcome screen mode, then a group policy or something < 1320340259 798094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, computers don't even /boot/ without a working keyboard, so presumably the BIOS recognised it < 1320340262 239335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer devises tricky riddles < 1320340263 613745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the warm reboot issue is mysterious < 1320340269 757737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to forget the last username, requiring its entry every time. < 1320340271 985855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, certainly, it works fine in grub too < 1320340279 772023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and under linux < 1320340327 118588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and as I said, with warm reboot from either OS it works fine. < 1320340339 655345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a way to cause that sort of behaviour < 1320340357 395192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:37:55: "You can meet people over the Internet (oh God, can you), but something in our monkey brains makes in-the-flesh meeting a bigger thing." < 1320340357 510247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh @ this < 1320340367 294690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw did I mention the game on windows that only worked if 5 minutes or more passed since login and another XNA based game had already run? < 1320340375 13883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think they do boot nowadays < 1320340378 79466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very strange that one) < 1320340379 834166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone emulates the controller < 1320340402 803986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : import System.IO; import Data.List; main = putStrLn . intercalate "\n" [...] <-- that's putStr . unlines < 1320340412 784121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have a single shared PS/2 port that can either take a keyboard or a mouse < 1320340420 478611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I use an usb mouse and a PS/2 keyboard < 1320340421 375229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:51:33: Should I try to use Emacs? < 1320340421 527852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:51:38: Ngevd: I recommend it. < 1320340422 990578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no < 1320340430 193824 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining an onscreen game controller, like an onscreen keyboard < 1320340431 458813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also unwords < 1320340433 150113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now an onscreen mouse < 1320340452 681148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah yes I always forget about those things. < 1320340468 134616 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drag the onscreen mouse around and click with it, and then it will move another cursor that clicks on things for you < 1320340482 914614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're slightly different, unlines appends a final \n) < 1320340507 50065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well apart from one being \n's and the other being spaces) < 1320340520 112688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for some reason I thought you used emacs as well. < 1320340529 221133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1320340533 415850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1320340544 827857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use vim for editing config files. < 1320340547 151136 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use it and not recommend it then? < 1320340553 30687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use emacs, kate and nano < 1320340566 410566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because learning emacs is a waste of time for almost everyone. < 1320340582 195825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: another option is mapM_ putStrLn < 1320340587 74587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just used to it, and it has a few things that the lack of bug me in other editors, so I use it. < 1320340622 194529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was not a waste of time for me to learn it. < 1320340632 559946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes like to do mapM_ print in ghci, to not get as many nested brackets < 1320340637 605594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not expect continuing this conversation to be productive. < 1320340652 506299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as with plain print) < 1320340655 343001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do that a lot too. Mostly I wish that GHCi reformatted prints by default. < 1320340678 581954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :productivity | EPL evening school assignments! http://tinyurl.com/5stnu5n | It's the end of an era | RIP John McCarthy) | TO SHREDS!) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1320340742 317048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the _ in mapM_ is quite ugly, surely there is a better way to tell it apart from mapM < 1320340768 977235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's standard < 1320340772 649950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapM' would be worse < 1320340776 828433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1320340778 957619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sequence_ < 1320340780 168374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1320340782 843176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => [m a] -> m () < 1320340789 466488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't tell me it isn't ugly < 1320340789 519564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and, therefore, not ugly. ;) < 1320340795 952190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find it ugly at all. < 1320340798 54660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320340887 232206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is strange, why does :t in ghci give a much more compact form than :t in lambdabot for sequence_? Or rather, why would lambdabot print that forall stuff that is implicit in ghci's :t < 1320340915 668488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's an option whether to include foralls < 1320340930 341634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, why would lambdabot have that turned on then? < 1320340954 727887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pedagogical reasons? < 1320340958 945490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, okay < 1320341014 963599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lolno < 1320341017 600862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for caleskell < 1320341034 956164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least nobody ever does anything but tell newbies to ignore them < 1320341055 320510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o kay < 1320341056 507451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is caleskell? < 1320341071 229794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) -- this. is. caleskell. < 1320341072 100360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1320341087 789531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1320341088 489016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1320341090 986255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320341107 729717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is not the usual flip signature < 1320341116 9956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is the usual (.) signature of course. < 1320341122 748706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0$) -- hm i wonder... < 1320341123 581611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Base.$' [infixr 0] of a section < 1320341123 818066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower prec... < 1320341129 136884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not that either < 1320341139 194370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason he hasn't changed $ to infixl though :P < 1320341149 185635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to me that doesn't really explain what caleskell is < 1320341158 722141 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :caleskell is caleskell < 1320341163 774434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah google was more helpful than DDG there < 1320341189 183764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> func "caleskell is " (var "your mom") :: Expr < 1320341189 376356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still no explanations as to what it is < 1320341190 344152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `func' < 1320341192 472586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320341194 952752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fun "caleskell is " (var "your mom") :: Expr < 1320341196 58061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : caleskell is your mom < 1320341209 653372 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job < 1320341210 902722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i like how siddiq stealthily avoided actually pinging anyone < 1320341214 402677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: thanks. < 1320341252 888318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1320341253 233489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "siddiq more like siddick huh huh huh huh" < 1320341254 395488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : siddiq more like siddick huh huh huh huh < 1320341280 23015 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :look guys, I can make lambdabot obnoxious. < 1320341293 339775 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1320341338 631528 :naggg!~nask@62.65.212.134.cable.starman.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320341356 367024 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in other news < 1320341358 975481 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=do+a+barrel+roll < 1320341412 465150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cale is a #haskell regular who added some of his haskell ideas to lambdabot. i think. < 1320341435 260399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1320341452 193430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he is the maintainer of lambdabot. < 1320341454 482334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1320341455 655706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :owner < 1320341458 123347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unmaintained :) < 1320341461 991866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi naggg < 1320341463 647612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320341465 810374 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320341477 7011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type '?' < 1320341478 898963 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? is /hackenv/bin/? < 1320341481 108836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't quite sure about that, thus "i think" < 1320341483 556463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file '?' < 1320341485 537362 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?: ERROR: cannot open `?' (No such file or directory) < 1320341489 73083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file 'bin/?' < 1320341490 887458 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/?: POSIX shell script text executable < 1320341496 753495 :naggg!~nask@62.65.212.134.cable.starman.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1320341498 925295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run pasteurl 'bin/?' < 1320341500 877281 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: pasteurl: not found < 1320341502 575885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1320341509 896974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pasteurl 'bin/?' < 1320341511 969571 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pasteurl: not found < 1320341512 615766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try not to fail horribly at the bots in front of the newbies < 1320341519 227865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste 'bin/?' < 1320341519 445184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1320341521 158128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I forgot what the command was < 1320341521 901840 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3471 \ cat: 'bin/?': No such file or directory < 1320341524 804446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's `url. < 1320341526 774501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/? < 1320341527 132436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320341528 703288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/? < 1320341536 668127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that is going to break < 1320341538 128981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that actually doesn't work because Gregor is lazy. < 1320341541 936083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/? < 1320341544 67011 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11685 < 1320341569 935440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom < 1320341572 105934 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 \ augur \ c \ elliott \ everyone \ finland \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ itidus20 \ monad \ monads \ monqy \ oerjan \ oklopol \ qdb \ qdbformat \ sgeo \ shachaf \ u \ vorpal \ welcome \ wiki < 1320341577 501308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a lot < 1320341580 436867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i wasn't quite sure about that, thus "i think" < 1320341588 241907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and i was giving you the gift of correction :P < 1320341592 762267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's barely any < 1320341640 295251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monads < 1320341642 148810 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1320341643 617294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: crawl's learndb has a single entry with 3494 definitions < 1320341688 843153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1320341690 921576 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1320341704 446086 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good thing that entry sucks < 1320341718 922039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's crawl, what did you expect < 1320341752 966736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some crawl learndb entries are good in a bad way but most of them are awful < 1320341755 255916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? intercal < 1320341757 50330 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. < 1320341766 172241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, crawl being? < 1320341775 549573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I refuse to believe you don't know what Crawl is. < 1320341785 17596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, stone soup? < 1320341796 54163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1320341798 217085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320341819 860921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you believe me if I said I never actually played it? < 1320341825 622742 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-67-146.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320341830 243102 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? finland < 1320341832 515640 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least five of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. < 1320341838 772553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/monad < 1320341840 246042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I would die from shock. < 1320341840 638302 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1320341842 246630 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rodney's learndb has 6653 definitions, but the entry with most definitions (stealing_from_shops) only has 17 of them. (Assuming I grepped right.) < 1320341861 42609 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elliott < 1320341863 48758 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? < 1320341877 280762 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1320341892 567280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320341894 616008 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1320341896 834486 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your future evil overlord oerjan is an expert in lazy computation. < 1320341903 602679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monqy < 1320341905 643646 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. < 1320341918 140836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".' >wisdom/banach-tarski < 1320341919 894525 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320341929 73663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am not sure i approve of the hyphen < 1320341942 437783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1320341948 881832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rougelikes I played: nethack, slashem, a bit of angband. Yeah I think that is it. < 1320341955 335496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fizzie < 1320341956 395723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: filename one :P < 1320341957 877703 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is rumoured to be written in Funge-98. < 1320341958 907694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should play stone soup now < 1320341964 395459 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gregpr < 1320341966 355211 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregpr? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320341975 844576 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gregor < 1320341978 118986 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. < 1320341978 356361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't, it sucks < 1320341983 570884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how so? < 1320341988 262749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ais523: back me up here < 1320341991 106668 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1320341993 804235 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? friendship < 1320341995 944117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it suck because you are bad at it? Or some other reason? < 1320341995 997177 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship wisdom < 1320342003 880593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks because it's bad < 1320342008 555663 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks because it's bad < 1320342011 757799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in what way is it bad < 1320342012 812022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can trust monqy, he has like _three_ entries in that learndb. < 1320342018 33554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have way more than three < 1320342018 96636 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should MAKE stone soup. < 1320342018 265574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop echoing monqy < 1320342026 737300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy echoed me you blithering moron. < 1320342032 429079 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've won a lot of games!! < 1320342037 358890 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have experience, am probably good < 1320342042 431430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no that was "and stop echoing, monqy!" < 1320342042 910533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: it's information is actually true. < 1320342044 364969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how many games... is it 2 < 1320342046 199173 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/echoing/\1,/ < 1320342047 725071 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that. < 1320342048 593561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1320342052 991825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fix the ' so i can addquote that < 1320342063 74271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: its information is actually true. < 1320342069 373462 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think it's like 17 :( i used to play it a lot before i got really frustrated with how bad it was < 1320342071 675508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: its information is actually true. < 1320342073 893689 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :704) elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: its information is actually true. < 1320342089 905204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? haskell < 1320342091 954316 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is preferred by 9 out of 10 esoteric programmers. Ask your GP today! http://learnyouahaskell.com/ < 1320342094 397789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, the reasons are (a) it sucks (b) the balance is awful (c) the fact that you're always in the centre tile gives you a headache < 1320342097 914505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ask ais523 if you want more detail :P < 1320342101 379449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the only person I would trust about rougelikes would be ais523. You need him to back you up. < 1320342109 17032 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? itidus20 < 1320342111 345742 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 is horny 60 year olds having cybersex in minecraft < 1320342112 282106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, only person in this channel < 1320342120 605869 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1320342122 732314 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented. < 1320342122 926656 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about (c) but I'd add (d) it's boring < 1320342134 564298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, I seen plenty of games like (c), they don't annoy me < 1320342149 917469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sgeo < 1320342152 116866 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo invented Metaplace sex. < 1320342152 239022 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (e) it's tedious < 1320342165 60374 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe other games are boring and tedious too; I prefer not to play them either < 1320342174 919124 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? CakeProphet < 1320342177 256715 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320342184 234832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :? who owns lines starting with a ? again? < 1320342185 679896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? feather < 1320342187 643726 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :feather? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320342191 284290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1320342194 411866 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :?somebody owns lines starting with a ? < 1320342194 860260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1320342201 116204 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lambdabot, that jerk. < 1320342204 583994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'Vorpal is a swede so normal that this information is actually true.' >wisdom/vorpal < 1320342206 133063 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342218 768106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1320342222 670189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'Vorpal sucks.' >wisdom/vorpal < 1320342224 420707 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342224 893597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION master of accuracy. < 1320342229 675489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rollback < 1320342230 349052 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn < 1320342231 266717 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rollback: not found < 1320342231 679155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW `quote modifies the FS on every invocation now is that ok. < 1320342232 293286 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | tr A-Z a-z) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." \ < 1320342233 683581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1320342234 741116 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1320342237 969881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1320342238 962346 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320342242 67912 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wtf why < 1320342243 16940 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320342244 234160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see what you did < 1320342245 338858 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :620) in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep < 1320342246 670182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: `unquote < 1320342255 310292 :naggg!~nask@62.65.212.134.cable.starman.ee QUIT :Quit: begone < 1320342256 748246 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/unquote < 1320342259 8302 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/unquote < 1320342267 345134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 6e3092881cc4 < 1320342280 357186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1320342281 853017 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? vorpal < 1320342284 123264 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal sucks. < 1320342288 256349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for Vorpal to break the bot with idiocy. < 1320342289 529712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was already a wisdom entry on vorpal... < 1320342290 166424 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320342293 469446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, but why does `quote need to modify ... < 1320342300 684312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So that `unquote knows what to delete. < 1320342303 594838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `quote < 1320342306 468589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SHITTY QUOTE < 1320342306 926978 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHH < 1320342308 268148 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gets it. < 1320342308 320313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `unquote < 1320342312 90929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : K it's gone. < 1320342314 716869 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, works for me. < 1320342327 99615 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : i loved that quote < 1320342331 988494 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have it report which one it removed just in case of SYNCHRONIZATION. < 1320342333 411974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what does `revert take as parameter exactly? < 1320342336 709740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It does. < 1320342339 126684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: `delquote does now. < 1320342342 424804 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The revision to revert to. < 1320342358 276145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, for some reason I can't find the revision number on http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1320342390 722524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember seeing said revision number there before.... Strange < 1320342404 409435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be at least this smart to ride the bot --> < 1320342411 939982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo ':>' > wisdom/cakeprophet < 1320342413 990222 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342418 639354 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cakeprophet < 1320342418 842202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 828 < 1320342420 316651 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320342422 633589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There. < 1320342422 759723 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1320342424 974700 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is everyone `learn-incompetent or what? < 1320342426 508461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/6fd8b41fdb37 < 1320342432 455167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. < 1320342434 514388 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:> < 1320342436 470507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how do I learn learn? < 1320342444 753099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo ':>' > wisdom/cakeprophet < 1320342446 858727 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342448 53919 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cakeprophet < 1320342450 274291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/cakeprophet < 1320342450 327150 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:> < 1320342452 472760 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342461 648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what the hell. < 1320342463 819185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah there, I tried the hash, but that didn't work < 1320342471 870504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "hackego despot" hird < 1320342478 335856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would make sense if the hash worked < 1320342479 771559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You must learn how to use `learn before I'll not be a dick about working around it :P < 1320342490 325393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm the maintainer of HackEgo. That's why you should complain to me and not Gregor. < 1320342492 41063 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn learn < 1320342494 614860 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1320342502 29045 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? learn < 1320342504 589500 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn < 1320342506 992504 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn < 1320342507 181433 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1320342512 635653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are? I thought it ran on codu < 1320342514 258207 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo has no maintainer, it is anarchy. < 1320342519 423012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nice cascading effect. < 1320342523 243511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/learn < 1320342525 12168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342526 785142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1320342528 831530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1320342534 53450 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1320342545 876685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 828 < 1320342547 103262 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320342560 144895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which learn` < 1320342561 328471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: P.S. You should make `revert rollback to the last revision :P < 1320342562 287850 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | tr A-Z a-z) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." \ < 1320342566 525746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm 99% sure hg lets you specify that. < 1320342582 313324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sed scares me. < 1320342593 609696 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm 99% sure that I'm too lazy to implement that and also that I don't want it to be QUITE that easy to revert. < 1320342597 411823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid of learn. < 1320342612 605491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (a) But it's like one line since hg lets you specify it :'( (b) Point. < 1320342621 464640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying for me though, how about you make it just work for me :P < 1320342631 665188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also [^ ] is a bad way to say \S < 1320342635 113176 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accept reasonable patches to HackBot. < 1320342641 666966 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn cakeprophet :> < 1320342643 954786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1320342644 840947 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But it's a good way to say "not a space" < 1320342646 465219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Got a link again? :P < 1320342663 174356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are race conditions that way < 1320342664 937918 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hg for filesystem, minus "fs" < 1320342666 765891 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: therefore, "is" is not transitive. < 1320342671 588615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HackEgo is one gigantic race condition. < 1320342682 961346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1320342683 74307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cakeprophet < 1320342685 520307 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet :> < 1320342688 321490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320342700 727188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo ':>' > wisdom/cakeprophet < 1320342702 749290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320342719 416488 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better. < 1320342741 485925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cakeprophet < 1320342743 453256 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:> < 1320342744 185154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1320342759 477655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Writing a patch now :P < 1320342769 629355 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Submit in bundle format kthx < 1320342784 611856 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And/or export format) < 1320342813 596693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Y'know, I'm pretty sure you don't want "hg revert". < 1320342820 274215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want the revert to become a revision itself, after all. < 1320342844 475848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo ~ < 1320342846 446948 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp < 1320342847 115198 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I commit post-hg-revert. hg backout would be similar but I didn't use it because this way the hg revert is just like any other command. < 1320342858 369049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo . < 1320342860 309732 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. < 1320342861 884896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, okay. < 1320342864 476166 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Impressive. < 1320342868 913359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why /don;t/ hashes work, btw? < 1320342870 545904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/'/ < 1320342874 176033 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't ask me :) < 1320342877 656125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run pwd < 1320342879 772774 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv < 1320342884 649361 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I probably just only accept numerics. < 1320342904 507797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :revert should just be an alias for find . -delete < 1320342907 96316 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/shachaf < 1320342908 882437 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad < 1320342916 633653 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't be in there. < 1320342919 692351 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mad < 1320342926 78164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: learn to ? < 1320342927 589678 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1320342935 857817 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ? is wisdom < 1320342938 164223 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1320342942 568258 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ? < 1320342942 716801 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ? ? ? ? ? ? < 1320342944 775552 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? is wisdom < 1320342948 912234 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lern2unix < 1320342953 179003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, btw: < 1320342956 112661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/? < 1320342956 360917 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ? ? ? ? ?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320342958 321426 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/? < 1320342960 65210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that url is broken < 1320342969 590137 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw: < 1320342969 778972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I think you need to properly url encode stuff < 1320342973 752056 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/url < 1320342975 790197 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/'"$1" \ else \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/' \ fi < 1320342979 249782 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That script is part of the FS, anybody can fix it. < 1320342985 108455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1320343004 678273 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only `fetch, `revert, and (maybe?) `help are privileged. < 1320343005 141566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck url encoding in bash < 1320343005 519983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat `which revert` < 1320343007 786695 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: `which revert`: No such file or directory < 1320343008 538185 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and `run < 1320343011 729242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which revert` < 1320343017 610821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1320343029 46126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It doesn't work because you explicitly require the revision to be a number... :P < 1320343031 800559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just removes that constraint < 1320343034 173765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which protocols does `fetch support? < 1320343036 648609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll fail harmlessly if you try and do something stupid. < 1320343043 467637 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320343048 519414 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Whatever wget supports *shrugs* < 1320343058 973239 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -MURI::Escape -e 'print uri_escape($ARGV[0]);' 'blah/?' < 1320343061 202401 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate URI/Escape.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .). \ BEGIN failed--compilation aborted. < 1320343068 924659 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hmphs. < 1320343069 222346 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom < 1320343071 546682 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320343077 77228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Surely you want to check for it being [0-9a-f]+ < 1320343080 870034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1320343087 448666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say things like -3 < 1320343090 430429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To go two revisions back < 1320343092 566195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320343110 443256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>& is like redirecting both 1 and 2, right? < 1320343116 937789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just as long as you handle escaping and quoting properly (might be a non-issue, depending on which language it is written in) < 1320343136 216420 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch file:///etc/passwd < 1320343137 382555 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :file:///etc/passwd: Unsupported scheme `file'. < 1320343140 855338 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dern :P < 1320343155 170659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which revert < 1320343156 360921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so no gopher < 1320343157 320618 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320343162 359639 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Tragic I know. < 1320343167 710971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320343178 14758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't understand. why is revert not part of the filesystem? :> < 1320343183 388002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320343193 502870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be in ./bin < 1320343196 824556 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls .hg < 1320343198 775857 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access .hg: No such file or directory < 1320343246 683290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -a < 1320343248 703799 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. \ .. \ bin \ canary \ karma \ lastquote \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1320343271 625123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom < 1320343273 778388 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ elliott \ everyone \ finland \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ itidus20 \ monad \ monads \ monqy \ oerjan \ oklopol \ qdb \ qdbformat \ sgeo \ shachaf \ u \ vorpal \ welcome \ wiki < 1320343280 248140 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1320343281 863120 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320343286 612972 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unmad < 1320343288 103834 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? everyone < 1320343290 249066 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone in here is mad. < 1320343302 14447 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo No outut. < 1320343303 836072 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No outut. < 1320343312 199589 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ?where ?where < 1320343314 135239 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?where ?where < 1320343319 814750 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? flower < 1320343321 977114 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :flower. what IS a flower? < 1320343328 733662 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ievan < 1320343331 96703 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ievan is basically http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4om1rQKPijI < 1320343333 233607 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One might say the same thing about birds. < 1320343334 275062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? intercal < 1320343336 681165 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. < 1320343370 63622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that video is awesome. < 1320343403 147590 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monads < 1320343405 163487 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1320343406 394774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1320343408 539166 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1320343417 704702 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? u < 1320343419 789337 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :u monad? < 1320343443 854760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: curl http://sprunge.us/jSEE | uudecode < 1320343527 777863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? c < 1320343529 955374 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault < 1320343543 539573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's "ask". < 1320343548 492813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also, stop spamming. < 1320343560 637231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is spam? < 1320343668 299435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1320343668 739656 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1320343669 352496 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   | < 1320343669 593225 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |\  |\  |\     |     /´\ /<   |\     |     /<  /´\  |\ < 1320343669 645709 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :               /`¯|_)                /`\ < 1320343669 645871 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :             (_|                   (_| |_) < 1320343674 997315 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1320343715 820300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can that be spam if it brings so much joy? < 1320343735 504308 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learning joy < 1320343782 283966 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "!help" < 1320343784 329888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : !help < 1320343788 479932 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw. < 1320343852 377212 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should all make bots. < 1320343858 479840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320343860 855687 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if they're good bots < 1320343904 654125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have as many bots as regular spamm^H^H^H^H^Hhumans < 1320344064 809616 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't like a channel full of bad bots...but good bots are good < 1320344181 647929 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering writing one in some esolang, but I don't know what purpose it would serve. < 1320344190 752244 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :being good < 1320344228 978250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could hold arbitrary state and not ignore bot commands. < 1320344277 664930 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: abort: no diffs found < 1320344280 271138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot holds arbitrary state too < 1320344280 874207 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: its been said that atlanta is better than bfbot!) :p. i think i get it completely now that i'm already there. < 1320344284 890584 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also have a dice roller, or some kind of esolang interpreter. < 1320344285 601753 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is? < 1320344286 347874 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1320344291 978272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, I did "hg bundle" and it said 1 changeset found. < 1320344297 720713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What'd I do wrong? < 1320344298 72872 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1320344304 248646 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing by the sounds of it :P < 1320344306 751225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky PRIVMSG]$ hg bundle bundle.hg < 1320344306 874071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching for changes < 1320344306 927521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 changesets found < 1320344310 149073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll re-uuencode it. < 1320344328 671309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/jGde ;; well this doesn't look any longer. < 1320344333 351190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320344339 498017 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, hg export then? :P < 1320344350 144813 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never seen bundle just lie >_> < 1320344371 598777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/fcjP < 1320344402 672061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the problem is that every utility I can think of is pretty much made capable by hackego. :P < 1320344426 371309 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo this crap is useless lol > bullshitfile < 1320344428 378630 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this crap is useless lol > bullshitfile < 1320344433 531625 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I am el stupid < 1320344435 275879 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo this crap is useless lol > bullshitfile < 1320344437 304037 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320344446 217929 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert -1 < 1320344465 913743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, none o' that :P < 1320344468 462184 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bullshitfile < 1320344470 549485 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this crap is useless lol < 1320344473 674408 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1320344546 475500 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1320344548 27479 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: repository /tmp/hackenv.hg.19659 not found! < 1320344551 171457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1320344653 678452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, tell me what caused that when you find out < 1320344728 158573 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1320344729 639660 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: repository /tmp/hackenv.hg.19878 not found! < 1320344742 350704 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1320344743 912798 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320344747 710423 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidokie :P < 1320344751 214695 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bullshitfile < 1320344753 371276 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bullshitfile: No such file or directory < 1320344794 529102 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no semilogical reason why elliott should have failed, but it did >_> < 1320344804 770324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1320344811 845621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yo, ping me when you apply my changes so I can test them :P < 1320344823 696314 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Err, done. < 1320344825 505896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : abort: repository /tmp/hackenv.hg.19878 not found! < 1320344826 129276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1320344827 659445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what I was just testing. < 1320344828 999711 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fixing. < 1320344833 360915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why does mv blah .hg work < 1320344835 539718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not hg -R blah < 1320344840 415 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Excellent question. < 1320344846 79259 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: One I didn't bother to answer, I just mv'd :P < 1320344857 552244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, did you have the same problem previously? < 1320344869 904652 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. < 1320344881 444528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right, well, make the same modification to mine :P < 1320344884 27814 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does hg blah do? < 1320344885 98504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I can if you really want < 1320344887 942079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Blahs < 1320344889 41145 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Already have. < 1320344893 738958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh :P < 1320344895 145972 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hg blah < 1320344895 741107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't -R supposed to point to foo as in foo/.hg < 1320344898 780640 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg: unknown command 'blah' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff < 1320344902 963351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than to foo/.hg directly < 1320344910 671094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I dunno, you can give it a bundle file < 1320344913 399075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-R bundle.hg < 1320344915 586705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo shitfuck >fuckshit < 1320344915 944920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1320344917 546156 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320344920 335286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1320344921 805329 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1320344924 564495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat fuckshit < 1320344926 165655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: fuckshit: No such file or directory < 1320344928 595137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1320344929 305177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1320344929 694185 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1320344951 842212 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol there's clock sync issues, fshg reported that those happened "28 seconds from now" < 1320344961 970683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320344962 114932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1320344966 86584 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert !#$ < 1320344967 300564 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: unknown revision '!#$'! < 1320344970 658571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 seconds ago now! < 1320344973 887384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert -- < 1320344979 69815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hope that fails :P < 1320344987 692352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh.... HackEgo? :P < 1320344991 30364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`type < 1320344992 669553 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg revert: option -r requires argument hg revert [OPTION]... [-r REV] [NAME]... restore individual files or directories to an earlier state NOTE: This command is most likely not what you are looking for. revert will partially overwrite content in the working directory without changing the working directory parents. Use "hg update -r rev" to check out earlier revisions, or "hg update --clean ." to undo a merge which has added another parent. With no revision spec < 1320344996 820337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1320344998 576740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch < 1320345008 779359 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lul < 1320345015 316873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert --; cat /etc/passwd < 1320345016 439637 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: unknown revision '--; cat /etc/passwd'! < 1320345019 563635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1320345027 794299 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /etc/passwd < 1320345029 784690 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory < 1320345032 580055 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snaps* < 1320345032 829250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal doesn't know bash. < 1320345050 905247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ...? < 1320345057 121563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Except that the hg command is run on the host :P < 1320345061 365043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :inded < 1320345063 415794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed* < 1320345065 655836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So `revert is TECHNICALLY the most viable exploit vector at this point :P < 1320345073 698358 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True, but /etc/passwd is still useless *shrugs* < 1320345079 92367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Can't you run the hg stuff from inside the repo?) < 1320345089 799638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's vulnerable to breakage unless you have some `restorerepo command. < 1320345092 386818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . -delete < 1320345094 488646 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320345097 21334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1320345098 838183 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lastquote \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1320345102 63594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes I know, but it was more a proof of concept. If I had been evil I would have used rm -rf ~ instead < 1320345114 948353 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: (Can't you run the hg stuff from inside the repo?) // in principle, but I wanted to maintain the invariant that one command = one commit < 1320345119 968761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right < 1320345126 27060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You don't have that invariant < 1320345129 209328 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . -name '*' -delete < 1320345129 800049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one command = zero or one commits :P < 1320345131 629101 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320345132 301787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1320345134 427931 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lastquote \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1320345138 100803 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1320345139 480332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You're never gonna figure out how that works. < 1320345140 228335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runperl \ toutf8 < 1320345142 881427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest giving up. < 1320345156 121157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does it work (or not work, actually) < 1320345196 488875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yo, there's a hole in http://sprunge.us/fcjP < 1320345200 767900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I thought the gmail UI changed? < 1320345213 216448 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's a hole in my bucket, my bucket, my bucket. < 1320345219 229098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: s{'PRIVMSG '$CHANNEL' :'$MSG}{"PRIVMSG $CHANNEL :$MSG"} pls < 1320345280 573432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Done < 1320345286 753683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Thx < 1320345417 808170 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320345435 30988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Siddiq < 1320345437 314535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320345439 440462 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320345473 515911 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320345502 199800 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliot < 1320345519 70541 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur < 1320345520 773054 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never got a welcome like that! < 1320345537 917593 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Siddiq < 1320345569 605933 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you < 1320345587 170141 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Blah blah blah welcome blah blah blah hub blah blah blah exoteric voodoo programming blah blah blah < 1320345605 687729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Blah blah blah matrix of solidity blah blah blah < 1320345614 927490 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1320345615 684065 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exoteric! < 1320345642 61276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to reiterate and expound upon what gregor just said < 1320345652 854370 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am too locked into my matrix of solidity < 1320345657 788284 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blah blah blah spoons blah blah blah swordfish blah blah blah" < 1320345661 488372 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i will go away instead < 1320345670 782543 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: nope nope nope, there is no spoon < 1320345681 542960 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuck testa! < 1320345688 250865 :Siddiq!~Siddiq@119.30.35.23 PART :#esoteric < 1320345695 412644 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that was expected :P < 1320345706 183771 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I see that it goes unappreciated. :-( < 1320345932 744188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1320345939 609902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be an esolang based on the other sort of esotericness < 1320345967 172228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, lets make a bf clone with renamed command, like [ = matrix of solidity < 1320345978 516996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: unfoog? I heard one of those guys lost their game because they were too busy chatting on IRC! < 1320345980 357737 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about an ... esoteric programming esolang? < 1320345993 411356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that is what I suggested < 1320346006 202883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the matrix of solidity thing once said by a parting visitor to this channel? < 1320346011 198024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, hi there, is crawl: stone soup any good? < 1320346011 679719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote matrix of < 1320346013 757067 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :303) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1320346020 769675 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a personal intense dislike for it < 1320346026 76026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Oh yeah, me and monqy are trying to tell Vorpal not to play Crawl because it sucks; he won't listen < 1320346027 473179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, ah okay, why? < 1320346032 735104 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that I've been kicked from ##crawl-dev for trolling at least twice < 1320346035 4089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, monqy was just echoing you < 1320346041 34184 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: was it followed by a ragepart? < 1320346042 162681 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because on paper it sounds like the sort of roguelike I'd like, but in practice it's awful < 1320346043 524776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, he said a bunch of things of his own accord < 1320346047 192836 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, it's getting worse as tme goes on < 1320346048 246077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is actually an experienced Crawl player < 1320346053 692537 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a very good Crawl player < 1320346057 792875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, ah < 1320346058 505838 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep getting killed by the interface < 1320346065 996113 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which the Crawl devs keep insisting is better than NetHack's < 1320346066 215068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that sort of issues < 1320346069 434289 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or killed by boredom < 1320346073 704630 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(indirectly, but still) < 1320346100 573057 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best strategy is, to, whenever you come across something you're not certain you can handle, run away and go somewhere else < 1320346140 272595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well I have to say that nethack's interface is not exactly perfect though. < 1320346151 714457 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so do I < 1320346172 923943 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not notice that I was making a NetHack variant specifically for the purpose of having a better interface? < 1320346173 553601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 "AceHack" \unfoog must surely think NetHack's interface is the best. < 1320346184 180628 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if fungot could invent esolangs based on trawling the wiki or something < 1320346185 22755 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: eek. ppt :( emacs as my windowing system... fresco/ berlin has some *really* nice ideas, but also quite a few haskell papers already < 1320346194 200490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oooh, that'd be a good grammar. < 1320346201 292458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, I thought it fixed a number of other issues, as well as some interface issues < 1320346210 436026 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what, AceHack? < 1320346215 486786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, yes < 1320346219 129604 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it has bugfixes < 1320346230 130809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, quite a few bug fixes iir < 1320346231 628395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1320346231 827505 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few marginal balance changes, but only when the original is mad enough to count as a bug < 1320346239 597688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: BTW, is there a way to make AceHack /not/ put everything in a single acehackdir? < 1320346239 981457 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I still haven't fixed all the bugs yet < 1320346254 703223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, where was the acehack changelog now agai < 1320346256 562267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :again* < 1320346257 933974 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not a supported way yet; however, I acknowledge that what it does at the moment is obviously mad < 1320346272 453334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: What's the unsupported way? < 1320346274 297686 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a define somewhere called VAR_PLAYGROUND or something like that < 1320346282 267377 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it does, but believe it's relevant < 1320346289 919751 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also suspect it doesn't work < 1320346297 898201 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the build system < 1320346302 729940 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can get it working, good for you < 1320346303 491396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: If I write a patch to make it do something vaguely FHSy or Kitten, will you accept it? :p < 1320346315 217233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/or/for/ < 1320346335 409349 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :" eek. ppt :(", looks like fungot didn't appreciate my idea though < 1320346335 981447 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: my home network is down for me < 1320346336 261510 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I won't reject patches that are obvious improvements; you might have to clear it with the server admins and whatever insane method they're using to get it working on servers, though < 1320346346 719083 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why did you send it a powerpoint? < 1320346350 932336 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use odp instead < 1320346352 949560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I could provde a --disable-sanity option for them :) < 1320346357 229783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well, from the nethack wiki... "The vibrating square is visible from a distance.", I'm not sure that counts as a bug in the original. < 1320346375 853454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, after all, unless it has quite a large amplitude you can't really spot it from far away < 1320346380 878069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (I realise --disable-bugfix is never a good option to add) < 1320346386 779252 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the AceHack server admins are kerio and rawrmage; kerio reminds me of you, except more annoying and with worse taste in languages < 1320346397 686223 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's an interface improvement < 1320346399 751219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh dear; I don't think I'll like kerio < 1320346406 304409 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, I don't think you would < 1320346426 310830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION manages to /just/ narrowly avoid being too annoying to not hate himself < 1320346429 516428 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's flavoured as the air above the vibrating square glowing < 1320346441 67783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320346442 978142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wait, what kind of language taste are we talking about here? < 1320346456 273777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++? PHP? VB? SpectateSwamp Desktop Search? < 1320346463 90195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure you could program /something/ with the last one) < 1320346467 643210 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fanboy-level Python support < 1320346471 788417 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I sent it an IRC message, not a powerpoint... I think ppt is just fungot's way of saying pfft < 1320346472 409415 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can you handle it? generally :) unless it's boring enough to now allow writing to code area... < 1320346477 293933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It's worse than I ever could have imagined :'( < 1320346508 884200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, "Swapping your wielded and readied weapons no longer costs a turn. (Readying a weapon directly, something not possible in vanilla NetHack but possible in AceHack, does.) " hm, why would switching weapon not take time? < 1320346510 134034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: If I had vagrant's source I'd tell you to show em vagrant :P < 1320346516 851219 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the fun got is amazingly intelligible today, have you changed the mode or something? < 1320346522 43864 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to get an idea of kerio, you could check the QDB; it submits by POST so I can't link to it, but http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?search and search for "kerio" < 1320346523 333421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1320346523 457594 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1320346525 953706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot < 1320346526 185628 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) < 1320346541 460986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I think I already read all the quotes in that qdb :) I only vaguely remember anything to do with kerio, but maybe I'm forgetful < 1320346544 913355 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because you're just switching items from one hand to the other < 1320346561 173256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wow, it jumps you to the bottom of the page after you submit, too < 1320346562 885512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro design < 1320346568 296782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, that still takes some time in real life < 1320346574 810282 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am partial to "angband is checkers on a 6400x6400 board", though < 1320346600 533584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1320346603 580284 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1320346654 372242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: do you have any experience with the wikidumps? < 1320346655 614070 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320346679 49306 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean, dumps of MediaWiki wikis? < 1320346679 312520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is wondering if they might work with sqlite < 1320346685 71 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, esolang's to be exact < 1320346688 129451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sql dumps < 1320346689 739031 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really; I know that they're pretty much just a sequence of SQL commands < 1320346692 473114 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not more than that < 1320346698 343151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,'Gravity/w/','','Hi, you\'re scum',89,'Oerjan','20090727114914',1,'',14965,14942) < 1320346698 992245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1320346705 422216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) ENGINE=MyISAM DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1; < 1320346710 128247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: a worryingly non-portable-looking sequence < 1320346728 512487 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320346729 408488 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql dumps don't work out of the box with sqlite at least :) < 1320346746 456358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, syntax errors < 1320346750 223765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: near line 711: near "DELAYED": syntax error < 1320346750 276350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: near line 719: near "unsigned": syntax error < 1320346750 276531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: near line 743: near "DELAYED": syntax error < 1320346779 753591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shell script that converts a mysqldump file into Sqlite3 compatible SQL file. It uses awk for speed and portability. Runs on Windows with the Cygwin tool for Windows. < 1320346780 583838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1320346785 464321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/943776 < 1320346786 436012 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I wrote a sed script to partially convert sql files one time, but noticed that other parts of that system used mysql features and couldn't use sqlite anyway < 1320346794 843721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: see above :P < 1320346807 609260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysqldump --compatible=ansi --skip-extended-insert --compact "$@" | \ < 1320346812 300160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh c'mon, let me specify my own file :) < 1320346836 219204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, "A new "solo mode" prevents bones files from being loaded, and makes startscumming visible (normally, AceHack allows players to view and reroll their stats and inventory before starting the game). " <-- sure I can see the reason for all of these points, but why is the "don't load bone files" under the same option as "make startscumming visible"? < 1320346868 308834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, still a fuckton of syntax errors < 1320346881 769042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you using mysql!? < 1320346891 365450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: read context or shut up < 1320346902 81705 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because they're both pretty much a case of showing that streaks are real < 1320346903 347226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying /not/ to use mysql < 1320346926 302870 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he's got a mysql-specific DB dump, and is trying to convert it to something non-mysql, I guess by importing it into mysql and exporting it again < 1320346930 47512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320346936 176909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: nope, by running an awk script over it < 1320346941 851187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to avoid installing mysql :) < 1320346987 907274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well, bone files are pretty much hit and miss, I wouldn't call it unreal just because you got a lucky bone. Same as I wouldn't call it unreal if the PRNG happened to favour you when fighting Rodney < 1320346988 20432 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320347010 261826 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bones files can be manipulated < 1320347020 289300 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact, often /are/ in record-aiming play < 1320347040 723071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs a vi command over 100 megs of data < 1320347053 832759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, how, unless you have write access to the files in question? < 1320347067 952924 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by playing a game on another account? < 1320347075 111948 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pudding farm for 20 hours, genocide P, suicide < 1320347078 50997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but anyone could get that bone < 1320347081 309488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not < 1320347088 539892 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it with your other character waiting on the level above < 1320347105 379960 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't get it, do it all again on the level below < 1320347110 898879 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the level below that if it still doesn't work < 1320347112 319141 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1320347121 172708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of work, but sure < 1320347127 908429 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's been done < 1320347131 306755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the chances for bones? < 1320347131 413472 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than once, in fact < 1320347149 893314 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving it's depth-dependent; loading is a fixed probability IIRC, although I don't remember whether it's 1/3 or 1/2 < 1320347170 536704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much, hm < 1320347171 639809 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320347171 804682 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1320347171 858536 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1320347185 864733 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, normally a bones file doesn't exist for any given level < 1320347199 784057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1320347206 166562 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wiki spam < 1320347214 725377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: quick, what table are all the /newest/ revisions of articles stored in, in MW? < 1320347218 211317 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because levels are visited much more often than they are died in < 1320347226 207880 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, I can't remember < 1320347231 81968 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be "page" or "pages" or something like that < 1320347231 973778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: wiki spam <-- what < 1320347243 446886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: i'll grep :P < 1320347245 497942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, ah right < 1320347248 351914 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask other people to report it < 1320347254 340172 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be hypocritical not to do it myself? < 1320347274 518339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: why the hell does MW prefix fields with a shortened version of the table name?,.. < 1320347276 540518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, you could just fix it without reporting < 1320347278 192072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fields/columns/ < 1320347285 590730 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1320347297 638088 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: presumably so it doesn't need to alias them in joins? < 1320347302 284108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess it might make joins easier, avoiding some ... < 1320347303 172982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1320347303 686138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: :( < 1320347311 930237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasty < 1320347316 273711 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does that everywhere, btw, even in the API < 1320347319 946189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320347320 674866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasty < 1320347483 890192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, mw_page seems to contain everything /but/ the text < 1320347497 452947 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "revisions"? < 1320347499 174384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `page_latest` int(8) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', < 1320347499 226917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :worryingly, no foreign key here... < 1320347512 723726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: there's an mw_archive < 1320347518 696202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the name of that seems to suggest it's all /old/ revisions < 1320347520 843619 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's deleted pages IIRC < 1320347528 497461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1320347531 974220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are included in the dump?? < 1320347534 383950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooool < 1320347535 370718 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not, why would they be in the dump? < 1320347547 738304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well, they are < 1320347549 736882 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really not an expert on MediaWiki's internals < 1320347551 194356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSERT DELAYED INTO `mw_archive` (`ar_namespace`, `ar_title`, `ar_text`, `ar_comment`, `ar_user`, `ar_user_text`, `ar_timestamp`, `ar_minor_edit`, `ar_flags`, `ar_rev_id`, `ar_text_id`) VALUES (1,'Turing_tarpit','','wDMfMOGCFBaes',0,'202.99.29.27','20090721214654',0,'',14920,14897),(1,'Fractran_plus_plus/','','Bad Credit Debt Consolidation Personal Loan',0,'218.23.143.125','20090724082501',0,'',14937,14914),(1,'W/','','Hi, I`m new',0,'212.235.107 < 1320347551 311707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.87','20090724154130',0,'',14940,14917),(2,'508_buy_zyvox','','New page: [http://www.mcgillcorp.industrialguard.com/invboard/index.php?showuser=910 Metformin] He send somebody instead of going hisself? Bad for business all that noise. Well sport have you figure...',422,'508 buy zyvox','20090725145129',0,'',14948,14925),(2,'508_buy_zyvox','','rm spam',139,'Smjg','20090725150733',0,'',14949,14926),(1,'Gravity/w/','','Hi, I`m new',0,'212.235.107.87', < 1320347551 679245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'20090727090915',0,'',14964,14941),(1,'Gravity/w/','','Hi, you\'re scum',89,'Oerjan','20090727114914',1,'',14965,14942),(1,'W/','','Hi! New member here :)',0,'91.121.12.73','20090727235547',0,'',14977,14954),(1,'Gravity/w/','','Hi! New member here :)',0,'91.121.12.73','20090801083818',0,'',15004,14981),(1,'W/','','Hi! New member here :)',0,'91.121.12.73','20090815065357',0,'',15154,15131),(1,'Gravity/w/','','Hi! New member here :)',0,'91.121.12.73 < 1320347556 703397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :','20090816162120',0,'',15178,15155),(1,'Befunge/index.php','','NYC Photo Studio 917 484 6430',0,'212.235.107.27','20090820031732',0,'',15318,15293),(2,'5k63ded6ttcyf67','','New page: easf57ase7fske99898ffhhfh So. \'D\' -- that should be a guide. \" \"The man was a Spaniard. I suggest that \'D\' stands for Dolores a common female name in Spain. \" \"Good Watson very good -- b...',436,'5k63ded6ttcyf67','20090824085757',0,'',15364,15339),(1,'Befu < 1320347559 614745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam < 1320347561 771392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nge/index.php','','Registration and Hosting Godaddy Promo Codes',0,'212.235.107.215','20090828053353',0,'',15451,15425),(1,'Main_Page/index.php','','Анекдоты',0,'82.193.114.92','20090627120826',0,'',14747,14723),(1,'Main_Page/index.php','','a < 1320350173 261182 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the secret project is not designed for security, and in particular, doesn't sandbox several syscalls yet < 1320350173 978939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, anyway, no need for secretness around the secret project any more now that we know what it is for. So what is the actual name of it (if it has any?) < 1320350174 457507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./a.out | head -c 100 >b < 1320350176 437490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ diff a b < 1320350178 916630 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Web of Lies < 1320350197 457755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to keep calling it the Secret Project < 1320350205 466329 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Web of Lies is a great name < 1320350210 703425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, okay, that would definitely not have told us anything really beyond what we know, I assume it is a reference to that it lies to the program? < 1320350219 686391 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320350225 512641 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then invents more lies to cover its old ones < 1320350235 83785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, what would the executable name be? wol? < 1320350240 657432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yeah, but I can sound credible if I call it the TSP Isolation System < 1320350242 49922 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not even convinced I've implemented ualarm yet < 1320350243 993100 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: weboflies < 1320350251 912562 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in the 8.3 era any more < 1320350254 454229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320350254 833471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you can use alarm(1) instead, and put alarm(1) at the end of handle < 1320350259 295553 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not like it's the sort of thing you run constantly < 1320350263 250797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: use head -c 10 if you do, it'll be much slower < 1320350284 350157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: congrats on getting it, btw < 1320350292 462169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was obvious < 1320350304 467121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not what you said all the previous times < 1320350311 640980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: you can use alarm(1) instead, and put alarm(1) at the end of handle < 1320350314 120780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because it wasn't obvious in those cases < 1320350314 721257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this is actually allowed :) < 1320350316 855450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably work though < 1320350330 340199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, man 7 signal says it is allowed < 1320350333 727710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1320350334 934073 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, seems ualarm gets translated to setitimer(2) < 1320350345 603533 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320350352 382977 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I haven't implemented < 1320350365 729805 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION replaces with alarm < 1320350379 144776 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's clearly no point < 1320350389 406247 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for (;;) i++;" always wedges the Secret Project, the way it works < 1320350390 192651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :implemented the same way? < 1320350405 216543 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd probably implement it the same way I implemented alarm, indeed < 1320350415 78500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, oh you implement alarm < 1320350416 96007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1320350429 518531 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, what else can I do? I can't pass through the syscall < 1320350454 48610 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for obvious reasons < 1320350461 997367 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returning ENOSYS would break too many programs < 1320350468 292170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "for (;;) i++;" always wedges the Secret Project, the way it works < 1320350471 671027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so what do you implement alarm() as? < 1320350472 319201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: do you support pthreads? < 1320350475 480286 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(getting random ENOSYSes is an occupational hazard of running under the Secret Project) < 1320350485 155676 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sort-of; it seems to work but I don't know why < 1320350489 258180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320350497 197274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, and I thought alarm would be implemented with setitimer as well < 1320350508 395687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: but yeah, afaict certain parts of the secret project are useful to me and the rest aren't < 1320350509 609697 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /have/ special-cased futex(2), which is involved < 1320350515 702665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll probably just hack up my own thing based on it :P < 1320350579 207776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's hard to get this ualarm-free version working < 1320350584 308426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the increment loops keep syncing up < 1320350590 609556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries a division loop < 1320350590 975153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, any plans for TAS other than of nethack? < 1320350595 713370 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps < 1320350595 929695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or acehack of course < 1320350605 851568 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I can TAS NetHack even without this, so it would be fun to use it on other games < 1320350631 324564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Will SDL work in it? :P < 1320350638 383581 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SDL already does work in it < 1320350641 657258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wow < 1320350645 344297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, against what? X? < 1320350646 321877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: how fast do SDL games go? < 1320350648 310728 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, without sound < 1320350657 872522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: what about opengl? < 1320350666 281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that would be hard < 1320350670 979944 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many programs (e.g. Battle for Wesnoth) don't handle SDL framebuffer properly < 1320350679 778962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, report bugs? < 1320350687 99996 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remember when I was in here asking questions about Mesa's software emulation? < 1320350688 425975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are so naive < 1320350693 119623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: ah < 1320350698 749079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so... it works? < 1320350698 802359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm, umm, not sure Minecraft will run at acceptable speeds < 1320350707 889502 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not meant for interactive use < 1320350719 251143 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, playing games full-speed < 1320350723 297373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of what a Minecraft TAS would look like now < 1320350724 264382 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is noticeable slowdown, mostly < 1320350730 365219 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sometimes noticeable speedup < 1320350734 826974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedup? :D < 1320350739 651037 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a program's just waiting < 1320350744 151561 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can fast-forward < 1320350745 248764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, how much of a FPS drop do you get from weboflies typically with opengl stuff? < 1320350756 828287 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1320350762 689723 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't have OpenGL working yet < 1320350766 561818 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I imagine it'd be quite a large one < 1320350766 681062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1320350776 601449 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joyous thing is, that weboflies only has a performance penalty on syscalls < 1320350790 321367 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so heavy computation – like, say, emulating a GPU in software – isn't slowed down at all < 1320350795 305886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320350821 389017 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is counted as zero emulated time < 1320350822 625227 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone experienced in Cocoa? < 1320350829 448995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish SQLite used something other than SQL < 1320350832 824257 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I assume at least one person is, but possibly nobody here < 1320350847 205140 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad < 1320350857 114229 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a design problem < 1320350893 706014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so, when are we going to be able to get our hands on it? When it is complete? Or before that? < 1320350937 77232 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's no real reason not to PM you/elliott the source now; although note that a) it needs to run as root, and b) it /will/ do insane things, so run it at your own risk < 1320350943 912432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1320350947 222191 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's triggered multiple kernel bugs so far < 1320350953 649649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: what license is it going to be under when it's "done", btw? < 1320350964 615048 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if there's a license on there atm < 1320350968 820297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, btw thanks for using that nick. Otherwise I wouldn't have thought of nethack at the point crucial to making the discovery < 1320350986 802771 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently unlicensed, it seems < 1320350989 916887 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely GPLv3 < 1320350990 89478 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320351001 122910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( okay < 1320351014 305716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, I don't have any actual use of it right away, unlike elliott < 1320351015 346757 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a good argument for using something else? < 1320351030 345007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, GPLv3 is fine with me. < 1320351035 610532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt he was asking you :P < 1320351040 43104 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking elliott, I knew /you/ wouldn't mind GPLv3 < 1320351042 725231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no, I just don't like modifying GPLv3 software :) < 1320351044 516564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320351051 284577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (or GPLv2 software) < 1320351054 882200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or GPLv1 software, for that matter < 1320351056 557249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll cope :p < 1320351060 275000 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some odious legal requirement that makes it hard to do correctly? < 1320351061 900674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only do BSD or MIT when a significant part of the program I'm writing already consists of such code < 1320351071 291671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes, it's called not liking the GPL < 1320351076 68297 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifying GPLv0 is a real pain, as it requires you to keep last-modified dates in the files itself < 1320351081 452354 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which really messes up the repos < 1320351082 526914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1320351088 423146 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bug has been fixed since, I believe < 1320351089 143275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, heh < 1320351104 676654 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone actually /enforces/ that requirement, but you know me… < 1320351169 324910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: if you don't have anywhere to put the tarball I can get you an nc port < 1320351177 725866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320351191 541150 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PMed < 1320351196 50578 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pastebinned it, as it's a single C file < 1320351198 848323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh no, it's all in one file? < 1320351201 420757 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320351210 190142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: are you sure that maintained the ^Ls? < 1320351222 799425 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably didn't, but they're not all that important < 1320351239 142053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^L? < 1320351243 170080 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so bad about having it as a single C file? < 1320351248 222678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: tell that to the person wading through an almost whitespaceless block of source :) < 1320351252 467783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the person is me) < 1320351261 127247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please explain modules to ais523\unfoog < 1320351269 718884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can face it < 1320351275 244467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt something like this can be made truly modular < 1320351276 292802 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewarn(mkdir("/tmp/home/ais523", 0755)); < 1320351298 615707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Could I convince you to sprunge a uuencoded version? :p < 1320351320 837032 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: around half the program is just one long switch statement < 1320351326 224082 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't split a switch statement across files < 1320351335 527628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( yes you can ) < 1320351337 803453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, #include is done at a text level < 1320351340 675577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so yes < 1320351345 371268 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not being modular < 1320351347 505018 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just #include < 1320351357 43072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :each syscall in its own implementation file is certainly modular < 1320351360 99143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well okay you can do like switch 5123: foo(); break; < 1320351361 787388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1320351365 721882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :modules are allowed to have outside dependencies < 1320351383 419198 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm feeling evil, so I just PMed you a cat -v version < 1320351391 851113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1320351401 568253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: cat -v isn't even reversible, dude < 1320351408 735425 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1320351419 442089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[look of disapproval] < 1320351425 283185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh, yikes, I forgot this thing is x86-specific :( < 1320351426 400958 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the two versions should be enough /between/ them to recover the original < 1320351441 891040 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes; luckily, adding x86_64 support wouldn't be all that insanely hard < 1320351443 180815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 32-bit? < 1320351446 803104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320351451 871212 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it contains hardcoded register names < 1320351453 797950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I care about other architectures than just that :) but x86-64 is a must for me < 1320351461 344363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, fsvo care) < 1320351471 629340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: would incrementing the kernel version break anything? < 1320351477 129215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in all likelihood) < 1320351488 239994 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean, what real kernel is being used? or what kernel it claims to be? < 1320351491 226175 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think either would break anything < 1320351493 573917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1320351509 336604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to pin it to the real kernel version, for compiling things like modules that might care < 1320351520 782891 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[look of disapproval] < 1320351528 120800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I can see parts of this would be extremely useful to elliott, but merging improvements from either side is going to be a pain due to the one-file system < 1320351531 723356 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it will /run/ on x86_64, just it runs 32-bit apps < 1320351542 75497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: why disapproval at that? < 1320351547 329791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about kernel modules < 1320351556 199005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you're insecure about your bad code organisation :) < 1320351563 163577 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of changing the version < 1320351563 484402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: bug report: < 1320351563 767673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (ar0.esi) < 1320351563 883152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1320351570 304221 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation bug? < 1320351575 759614 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care < 1320351582 581489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, modules shouldn't care, they should take their kernel module version from the kernel source tree they are building against < 1320351589 411635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fair enough < 1320351598 97688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll just split this into multiple files myself < 1320351605 557405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have fun merging updates then < 1320351632 944722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you obviously just need to throw in a few #ifdef < 1320351643 917820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!read_write_state && < 1320351644 39457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (S_ISREG(fdstats.st_mode) || < 1320351644 91693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : S_ISDIR(fdstats.st_mode) || < 1320351644 91857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : S_ISBLK(fdstats.st_mode) || < 1320351644 91968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (((fdstats.st_rdev == < 1320351644 880560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : makedev(136, shared_memory->pty_number)) || < 1320351646 750284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (fdstats.st_rdev == makedev(5, 0))) && < 1320351648 980585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((ar0.orig_eax == SYS_write || < 1320351650 916907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ar0.orig_eax == SYS_writev || < 1320351651 394646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam < 1320351652 989127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ar0.orig_eax == SYS_pwritev))))) { < 1320351654 947724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: [look of disapproval] < 1320351660 93302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everyone needs to see what ais has done :) < 1320351671 882184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, be happy it wasn't all on one line < 1320351676 112867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been worse < 1320351687 530934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you should have done it in PM < 1320351691 516292 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what would you /want/ me to do? split the condition? < 1320351707 930577 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think a comment is needed to explain the 136, at least < 1320351708 894718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: that thing has /multiple side-effects/! < 1320351718 244009 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1320351724 454972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makedev is pure? < 1320351726 656450 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320351730 970781 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bitfield packer < 1320351736 216685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320351737 250504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1320351743 364077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, what does the 136 mean? < 1320351743 609573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck life :P < 1320351776 66528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: whatever RSTATBW is, you should have a version specialised to an empty fisrt argument < 1320351780 279436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1320351786 954998 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* 5,0 = /dev/tty; 136,n = /dev/pts/n. */ < 1320351789 600348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define RSTATBW(x,y) (is32bit ? (x rstat y) : (x rstat64 y)) < 1320351789 719859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320351790 857185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320351791 959924 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least there's a comment explaining it /somewhere/ < 1320351808 682532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that about large file support? < 1320351809 827385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug report: /* We need to turn off ASLR even if a proces explicitly < 1320351810 459627 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, that's quite an abuse of the preproc, I admit < 1320351811 547481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1320351811 950057 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1320351813 636050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("proces") < 1320351828 859773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, you can turn off ASLR? < 1320351835 689436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :without changing kernel config I mean < 1320351841 232227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320351842 595301 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1320351844 660710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1320351849 722145 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :personality(2) < 1320351853 671000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1320351861 44251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the thing used for linux32 and so on? < 1320351863 198175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems sop < 1320351864 147111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so* < 1320351866 31504 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works for the one exec, unless you debug-hook the process you create with the exec and inject calls to personality in it < 1320351869 731996 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I, umm, may have done < 1320351873 931303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1320351880 480067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Do you accept file-splitting patches? :p < 1320351894 253932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so how does that linux32 command work then, it seems to work recursively < 1320351903 625192 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know of linux32 < 1320351909 841859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: also, what compile command? < 1320351913 576371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a symlink to setarch < 1320351919 516642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: setarch - change reported architecture in new program environment and set personality flags < 1320351920 242914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320351925 768366 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -o weboflies -O2 -g --std=gnu99 -Wall -Wextra -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-missing-braces weboflies.c ktt.c -lrt -lpng < 1320351928 687545 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, seems I'm missing ktt.c < 1320351928 798709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like reported arch is NOT a personality thingy < 1320351945 504442 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a hardcoded table of keyboard scancodes < 1320351950 932010 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was determined by experiment < 1320351954 177556 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because SDL asks for them < 1320351959 74770 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to know < 1320351961 926082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, wait, you mean this won't work on anything but the US keyboard layout? < 1320351967 857914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or UK rather < 1320351988 390751 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know, I don't understand the numbers < 1320351995 914778 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the keyboard isn't connected to the program under test anyway < 1320352000 61309 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies has a command line < 1320352000 508302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well, link ktt.c please :) < 1320352024 787787 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/XJKU < 1320352048 686193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, you know, this would be really useful for automated test benches for that nethack bot too < 1320352083 264606 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack-tas-tools would be good enough for that, I think < 1320352102 510114 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't /really/ about NetHack, as I can TAS that anyway < 1320352113 273797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: doesn't build on x86-64 < 1320352118 389783 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: missing headers? < 1320352119 561731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320352124 919379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -m32 < 1320352126 912091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1320352133 16985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no: < 1320352135 289705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least on ubuntu < 1320352136 160443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1910:70: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘ebx’ < 1320352136 212533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1913:70: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘ebx’ < 1320352136 277888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1928:21: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘ecx’ < 1320352136 330432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1931:22: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ < 1320352136 330531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1932:44: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ < 1320352136 637111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1934:22: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘orig_eax’ < 1320352138 711233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1940:22: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ < 1320352140 744938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1944:70: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ < 1320352142 652660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1950:20: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ < 1320352144 729937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:1978:16: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘orig_eax’ < 1320352146 241088 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, missing headers, or rather the wrong header < 1320352146 678358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies.c:2002:20: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘orig_eax’ < 1320352147 437853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, works with -m32 on my ubuntu laptop < 1320352148 646792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1320352150 634589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1320352152 656518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than i intended < 1320352154 760277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, no missing header errors < 1320352155 408950 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly looking at the 64-bit version of user.h < 1320352156 679404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320352158 712437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it would work on 64-bit though :) < 1320352169 752464 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would if it had the correct headers < 1320352177 52771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: is this png stuff really necessary? < 1320352192 57258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the png stuff for? < 1320352206 524992 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the graphics card emulation < 1320352214 291401 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, it emulates a framebuffer < 1320352219 203213 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and produces screenshots of it on request < 1320352238 979105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (mount("tmpfs", "/tmp", "tmpfs", 0, 0)) { < 1320352239 866030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1320352244 254049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that before or after chroot? < 1320352254 88343 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before, obviously < 1320352257 198747 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed the clone call < 1320352262 76052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320352263 972980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: do you accept patches that turn it into something useful for more than just TASing a game on ais523's computer? :p < 1320352271 384258 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLONE_NEWNS|CLONE_NEWPID|CLONE_NEWUTS < 1320352273 943810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so you replace the system /tmp, possibly breaking lots of stuff? < 1320352279 167803 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1320352284 65843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, then how? < 1320352284 178622 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that CLONE_NEWNS? < 1320352286 66860 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up what it does < 1320352305 738911 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: it affects the meaning of the mount syscall) < 1320352308 760152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this reminds me of plan9 < 1320352316 48061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like plan 9 but stupid < 1320352339 455624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320352345 887631 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, it changes /tmp for one process < 1320352360 224935 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how weboflies has genuinely caused filesystem leaks in the past < 1320352380 351053 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it turns out that the emulated filesystem is slightly visible from the outside; you can access it via /proc < 1320352385 979155 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root < 1320352401 854210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, uh... wait, wouldn't they be unmounted if no longer mounted by any process? < 1320352418 490581 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, indeed < 1320352428 640920 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but weboflies' processes are often quite hard to get rid of < 1320352433 169532 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen instances where kill -9 failed < 1320352450 967308 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because init (the real init, AFAICT) was catching the SIGKILL < 1320352452 661315 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320352453 284024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, D state? < 1320352461 97160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1320352462 333571 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, T (ptrace) state < 1320352473 141976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, how did you manage init to catch the SIGKILL for you? < 1320352480 60673 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, I guess a kernel bug < 1320352483 742587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320352486 498911 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :investigation showed that init was currently ptracing the process in question, though < 1320352499 571724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :init doesn't do that.... < 1320352502 826233 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1320352509 29659 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the process had stuck < 1320352512 912864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320352515 114359 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because init didn't tell it to just continue with the sigkill < 1320352523 302470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, did you manage to reproduce it? < 1320352526 174804 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1320352529 811019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1320352541 908129 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /did/ manage to reproduce the bug where a process had two stack segments simultaneously < 1320352550 151220 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't submitted a bug as the situation is reasonably insane < 1320352561 951552 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320352569 173782 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.20 QUIT :Changing host < 1320352569 226283 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320352571 673200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how does that happen. Isn't there a single segment selector? < 1320352601 218554 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bug? < 1320352610 104144 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did cat /proc/pid/maps < 1320352614 155704 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you got two stack segments reported < 1320352616 778570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320352618 342098 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which overlapped, but were different sizes < 1320352621 335984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320352662 814188 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: Linux doesn't like it when you mmap the stack guard page with MAP_FIXED < 1320352687 896811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320352688 550655 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug occurred after doing it exactly twice, IIRC < 1320352689 820511 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1320352694 184870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION humble bundles. < 1320352694 482385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320352697 851510 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it shrinks the stack to make room for a new guard page in response) < 1320352774 69917 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1320352775 38193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, btw why did you want to keep it secret, before you said that the reason for being secret was also a secret < 1320352783 890185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something to that effect) < 1320352833 694729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, oh and there are some debian specific things in there. < 1320352847 275573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, the whole /lib/i686/cmov thing and so on < 1320352868 496439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never mind that it is lib32 for me on ubuntu, and just /lib32 on arch) < 1320352889 552389 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's temporary to get it running < 1320352890 127685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog doesn';t use debian < 1320352896 396443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i doubt it < 1320352898 366305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ubuntu iirc? < 1320352901 569311 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll use its own ideas of the libraries eventually < 1320352902 618171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is debian based < 1320352904 461466 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I use Ubuntu < 1320352913 34328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so same thing when it comes to this < 1320352918 427924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it was different on ubuntu < 1320352923 362033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very next line < 1320352931 347315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I'm on 64-bit yet < 1320352932 455195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes* < 1320352984 44109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might need to change around line 488-499 if you want to get it running on a x86-64 distro, so it searches /lib32 and /usr/lib32 instead < 1320352997 435377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried, I'm kind of scared of running it < 1320353028 726783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, how do you deal with CPUID? < 1320353043 766362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anything on that < 1320353047 849122 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, yet < 1320353052 58692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320353063 433666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any plans for how to deal with it? < 1320353071 531320 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1320353080 598432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, anyway: why was it secret before? < 1320353112 913455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect he's doing a secret tas of a game < 1320353125 333282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320353146 26694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could be, not sure what game apart from nethack ais523 would play though... < 1320353155 248107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1320353163 394362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, probably just tired < 1320353167 406785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did I miss < 1320353168 390384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's talked about many games in here < 1320353184 81387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :none that stood out really < 1320353190 152265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including e.g. the humble bundle 3 ones < 1320353191 898596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was for linux < 1320353193 567456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1320353209 487666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, did you get the current humble bundle btw? < 1320353213 737593 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1320353227 275072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, and you are avoiding answering the question about why it was secret :P < 1320353229 237646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: enigma, for one < 1320353231 571288 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I paid £5 for bundle 3, and that's about what it was worth < 1320353234 730244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh yes, true < 1320353245 752007 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, because I have plans to submit a run on a secret emulator < 1320353252 542932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, ah okay < 1320353258 326360 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the emulator isn't secret, I'll have to write another one which is < 1320353264 9589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1320353266 369891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1320353271 439742 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be able to submit a run on a secret emulator < 1320353307 288689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no... is this the kind of "highlight yourself about wiki spam" madness? < 1320353332 276512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, anyway I presume you didn't develop the emulator in question? < 1320353349 710713 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you trap Vorpal in a recursive facepalm for me please? < 1320353351 31655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you could just have added the code to support doing a TAS right into it < 1320353361 805674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1320353389 517545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, oh you mean SP is the secret emulator. Right. We will keep quiet about it. < 1320353416 804 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was that not obvious? < 1320353422 721672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think of it as a emulator really. Really not an emulator in the same sense that wine isn't to my mind. < 1320353426 207912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: because vorpal is dumb < 1320353426 694583 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, before I make a TAS I want to see what games are supported < 1320353444 210852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Secret Project is an emulator? < 1320353448 144096 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it isn't an emulator, but it has all the required requirements to be a TAS emulator apart from being an emulator < 1320353463 105632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, read the log, I figured out what it was and confronted ais523\unfoog with it < 1320353469 235039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we've known what it was for ages < 1320353477 63001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not what ais523\unfoog wanted it for < 1320353487 955831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1320353500 98184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that out. So yeah < 1320353508 37001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have done it in /msg to annoy elliott a bit though < 1320353511 677322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1320353559 76789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :childish as always :) < 1320353582 944056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would have told you after a few minutes anyway :P < 1320353621 724385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well yeah < 1320353623 847019 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, have either of you dared to run it yet? < 1320353630 717663 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know /I/'m a bit queasy about running it < 1320353635 300226 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't be surprised if you hadn't < 1320353646 864342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, busy < 1320353648 674106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, not me. I looked at the code and.... well I would need to find a suitable system that I didn't mind if it exploded < 1320353650 2088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will soon < 1320353652 647664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :none come to mind < 1320353657 743277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after ripping out libpng < 1320353660 972974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: vm < 1320353666 281822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why rip out libpng < 1320353667 198392 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: without libpng you can't see what's happening at all < 1320353675 476704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh come on, this is like inception then < 1320353677 753031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1320353678 177603 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the only way to get at the contents of the graphics buffer, currently < 1320353696 7091 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think making the framebuffer a regular file was inspired < 1320353704 466803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, what about terminal only programs? < 1320353710 126544 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmm, I wonder if I could put a PNG header/footer around it, and not even have to transmit the bytes in it) < 1320353726 932740 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: those work without the PNG stuff, if you're happy with processing the VT100 codes yourself < 1320353733 569365 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although atm simulated vblank happens anyway < 1320353741 921921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320353742 581732 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of whether it does anything useful or not < 1320353765 805830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so you render nethack to a png? < 1320353780 449967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which terminal font do you use then < 1320353784 188357 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not NetHack, unless I use tiles version < 1320353790 508462 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just outputs VT100 < 1320353812 208970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320353815 963663 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weboflies core, which I'm writing at the moment, would need to be connected to some sort of interface to actually read it < 1320353883 897012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320353895 504443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, the core being what part of it? < 1320353902 64153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole emulator? < 1320353906 428524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you call it < 1320353913 105230 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the part that's been written will be when it's finished < 1320353922 627308 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning on a sort of gdb/ddd-like setup < 1320353938 114249 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have a command-line core, and a GUI that communicates with it < 1320353944 285888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320353948 405546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1320354028 602831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, so what is the point of doing a TAS with a secret emulator. I don't quite get it. Some sort of bragging rights? But I don't quite see how that would work < 1320354066 169016 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's always hilarious when people submit runs on emulators that people don't realise the submission system supports < 1320354078 25741 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :submitting a run on an emulator that people don't even know exists is the obvious next step up < 1320354083 589062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320354124 593375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well, wouldn't the submission system support pretty much any emulator that could output some sort of format that could be handled by the submission system? < 1320354142 142662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pacman -Qo /lib/libmemusage.so < 1320354142 195514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libmemusage.so is owned by glibc 2.14.1-1 < 1320354146 542921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, what? < 1320354150 899387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that for I wonder < 1320354160 89800 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it links to glibc malloc hooks, I think < 1320354165 470773 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not surprising that they're in the same package < 1320354177 166277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is it some debugging tool? < 1320354182 593693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for LD_PRELOAD < 1320354184 588202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1320354185 357820 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1320354204 457875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1320354210 637227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it exports mmap, calloc and so on < 1320354220 230671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably something that is meant to be LD_PRELOADed < 1320354491 993338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voxatron is a bit too easy. < 1320354496 245906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *hard. < 1320354771 440037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be so bad if the controls weren't clumsy. < 1320354813 497099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I agree < 1320354840 350049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, blocks that matter is fun and reasonably hard though. Though the plot feels a bit... meh < 1320354854 253593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the plot really matters much in a game like that < 1320355030 406475 :nask!~nask@194.150.65.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320355034 733200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nask < 1320355036 311914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcom < 1320355037 71687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320355037 940826 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcom? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1320355038 796783 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320355057 453245 :nask!~nask@194.150.65.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1320355071 819046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, hm, you bind mount /lib and such, but not /usr/share? < 1320355075 115623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: grr, i need 32-bit libgcc too < 1320355087 531059 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's temporary; eventually, none of that will be bind-mounted < 1320355096 108207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Timestamps. This stores the initial timestamp, in Web of Lies' < 1320355096 266037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : internal format: a 64-bit number giving nanoseconds since the < 1320355096 318959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : epoch (i.e. date +%s%N format). The value given here is < 1320355096 319124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 September 1993, the start of the Eternal September. */ < 1320355097 111936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1320355100 799987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is the one major downside of arch... multilib failure < 1320355116 52502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have I mentioned Kitten gets multilib for free??? < 1320355123 777020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1320355127 743156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and so does nixos < 1320355147 601018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it actually works with nixos < 1320355157 302609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1320355181 951817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have bin/foo and bin/foo < 1320355185 936862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no segregation in the profile < 1320355192 158573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess libraries are more common than executables, but still < 1320355204 62097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know if they do automatic cross-compilation stuff at all < 1320355245 12108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much point of having multilib executables. Compilers that can't be built as cross-compilers maybe? < 1320355282 27860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no such thing as "multilib executables" < 1320355286 419416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just executables of a different arch < 1320355293 651033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :think qemu-system < 1320355319 302742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the magic prefix for executing a x86 executable on x86-64 happens to be the null string < 1320355325 603650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah what I meant was "there is not much point in having more than one version of a given program installed at the same time" < 1320355343 917066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't need both 32-bit and 64-bit ls < 1320355349 202910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm trying to say < 1320355374 466983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I could think of uses. but yes, I believe nixos cheats by not having /lib < 1320355389 542657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320355405 916705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: btw, I'm unconvinced qemu wouldn't work for your tas needs... < 1320355413 508314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you just need a slightly faster system :P < 1320355426 924079 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for NetHack < 1320355431 957398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay I can think of one case, valgrind, but that is covered already for valgrind (except arch breaks that) < 1320355437 310231 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't do stable enough input determinising < 1320355467 237913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you could layer that on top < 1320355474 377656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by feeding input events through a wrapper < 1320355585 419787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: anyway, I think for Kitten I'll just steal the calls to turn things off < 1320355593 724989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the clock thing Vorpal mentioned < 1320355611 325504 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's mostly complete enough for Kitten < 1320355613 356640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do with a chroot + clock fixed at @0 + fixed hostname < 1320355615 891810 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't for its intended purpose < 1320355626 771718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well, like I said I'll probably just take parts of it < 1320355630 117749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, clock fixed at @0 will break stuff, trust me < 1320355632 317560 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that /all/ SDL programs get stuck in an infinite loop with a stuck clock < 1320355642 858699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: since I want something portable, and I don't care about the scheduler < 1320355643 967400 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as their main loop is basically gettimeofday and nanosleep < 1320355648 453088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and want -j to work) < 1320355650 791327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heh < 1320355656 450771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it won't break a C compiler < 1320355660 588049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know that uname -a will end up fucked btw < 1320355664 612785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C compiler shouldn't even require a clock < 1320355670 28635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why? < 1320355681 63357 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disabling any syscall requires hooking the registers directly (orig_eax in the case of x86) < 1320355684 861520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your kernel, it was compiled in 1970 < 1320355689 122205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and make, timestamps < 1320355696 347187 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, a nonworking clock /would/ break make < 1320355700 128174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you don't backdate the timestamps on files make will go crazy < 1320355700 520032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't have to say the kernel was compiled in 1970... < 1320355707 978907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I will backdate the timestamps < 1320355710 347373 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the secret project breaks make atm anyway < 1320355716 801560 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there are explicit sleeps in the build process < 1320355723 496588 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should make all syscalls cost 1ns < 1320355723 549206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter if make won't handle updates < 1320355728 180291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'll be run from scratch < 1320355797 55763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt much user space code uses RDTSC. It isn't useful given multi-core and changing clock frequency (except some modern CPUs compensate for that one, like core 2 or newer iirc)... < 1320355807 78941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it once, on an embedded x86 system < 1320355809 391711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect uname -a to look something like: Linux kitten 3.0 #1 x86_64 unknown unknown GNU/Linux < 1320355812 896614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to/will/ < 1320355826 65662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version is just a string, so making it #1 should be fine < 1320355829 577449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing should try and /parse/ that < 1320355844 810043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't be so sure of that heh < 1320355853 448992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd rather patch anything that tries to parse it < 1320355862 933011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, binary packages ? < 1320355871 155315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: those won't run inside the build jail... < 1320355878 425559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1320355882 561923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, their installers might? < 1320355883 169145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unless you mean a binary package with, like, a closed-source install script < 1320355891 790183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, like... fuck that < 1320355895 978258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320355898 888556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd either LD_PRELOAD in a fake uname just for it < 1320355903 957533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just tell everybody not to use it :) < 1320355921 61780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wow < 1320355926 7969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1320355931 319927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GNU coreutils adds the "GNU/Linux" bit to uname < 1320355936 244448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the uname syscall doesn't have a field for that < 1320355943 698080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... lol < 1320355947 18240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the gnu people must have added the --operating-system field just so they could get GNU in there < 1320355989 119983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know /how/ to override uname without doing ais523\unfoog's crazy stuff? < 1320356004 374351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the kernel can't just return a string constant, can it :p < 1320356005 97081 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, my uname override is mostly sane < 1320356009 766953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, setarch does it < 1320356012 987170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to some degree < 1320356020 813926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it does exactly one field of it < 1320356025 502213 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no it isn't < 1320356027 531330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think personality stuff is related < 1320356029 276800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1320356030 272016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1320356031 760396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : --uname-2.6 < 1320356031 813253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Causes the program to see a kernel version number beginning with < 1320356031 813426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.6. < 1320356035 440385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice :) < 1320356048 432239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think parts of these things are special cased, not general solutions < 1320356051 165790 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect setarch does it the same way as me, anyway < 1320356051 363974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: how's it done? < 1320356069 316273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, man 2 personality is totally unhelpful < 1320356069 692022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the one you pasted does 2.6.40 + the .x component in 3.x iirc < 1320356073 20924 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: debugger hooks, like everything else; if the process calls uname, it lets the call happen, then overwrites its return value in the process's memory < 1320356081 304322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: :( < 1320356091 804783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, I don't think setarch does all that < 1320356112 901605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt anything in util-linux-ng does that < 1320356116 795978 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's how it handles pretty much every syscall that can't be translated directly, except that sometimes it translates the arguments not returns, and sometimes it doesn't make a syscall at all (it does, but with an invalid syscall number then it changes the ENOSYS) < 1320356117 166695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have common decency, I would expect < 1320356122 56084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they use a lot of glibc-only apis < 1320356122 905477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, it doesn't even use ptrace says nm -D < 1320356123 889378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that < 1320356128 213910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: heh < 1320356147 415438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dMVA < 1320356167 684841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is NO way that can invoke ptrace, I refuse to believe it would avoid going through libc for it < 1320356179 871132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.github.com/gist/701791/4c6ebe0ee052575d49464b6f5d56730d5f48a471/setarch.c < 1320356180 528114 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure there is, see "syscall" in that list? < 1320356187 447432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :found by googling < 1320356188 155671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1320356190 241136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320356196 106729 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's being used for personality, though < 1320356196 729811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define set_pers(pers) syscall(SYS_personality, pers) < 1320356196 886169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, but for ptrace? nah < 1320356199 879269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^ < 1320356204 650122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320356210 604670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, where are the personalities /defined/? < 1320356212 27061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1320356212 645593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux/personality.h? < 1320356214 858155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do i get a list ofthem < 1320356217 438481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ofthem/of them/ < 1320356222 912530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel sources? < 1320356229 568652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually, this setarch isn't the one I have < 1320356231 619546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has fewer options < 1320356239 786237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe a different version? < 1320356242 234544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :try aur < 1320356244 162399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1320356244 776895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :abs < 1320356251 867473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/karelzak/util-linux/blob/master/sys-utils/setarch.c < 1320356254 304926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1320356259 828797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the official util-linux-ng source < 1320356260 264989 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quite a lot of the Secret Project is based on header files, or failing that kernel source < 1320356269 828897 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failing even /that/, a bunch of experimentation with strace < 1320356288 30377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you know, I don't like people who say this, but you have way too much time on your hands < 1320356291 401613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, which kernel versions have you tested it on? < 1320356301 42315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that quite literally; ask someone to give you more work so you don't have time for this crap < 1320356311 329757 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /don't/ have time for that atm < 1320356314 312307 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DFDC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320356315 225847 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I haven't been working on it < 1320356324 969060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320356328 572704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep it up!! < 1320356335 971876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is awesome < 1320356389 429733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1320356393 813975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1320356395 166205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't look at /usr/include/linux/personality.h < 1320356399 601490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1320356403 79562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1320356425 150037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine looks quite okay, just a lot of bitmasks as is usually done in these sort of headers < 1320356426 852412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/JumpFuck < 1320356430 322859 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I love the way that one of the flags I use is marked as "bug emulatino" < 1320356433 967042 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bug emulation" < 1320356434 137648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :'( < 1320356445 512106 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, GIVE ME ONE GOOD REASON NOT TO THROW AN ICBB AT HEXHAM THIS MINUTE < 1320356447 776514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you expect < 1320356454 367068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Sounds like Drepperish newspeak. < 1320356457 890284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, that was for a /purpose/. < 1320356465 508017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely? < 1320356478 77659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I forget. < 1320356486 836932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, I think that support for turning of ASLR might be an option in the kernel. At least I saw something related. < 1320356487 812327 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it isn't a glibc header, though, is it? < 1320356493 148609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, NOT GOOD ENOUGH < 1320356496 756104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, btw did you use cgroups? I don't remember < 1320356502 564745 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's cgroups? < 1320356502 763131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: How should I know? :) < 1320356508 751523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind then < 1320356513 691010 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's in .../linux < 1320356526 365026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you never mentioned any header < 1320356560 697184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, it's an implementation of group theory in C, duh. < 1320356603 168726 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm talking about personality.h, which you mentioned < 1320356622 915615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see the bug emulation comment now; and stop talking to yourself < 1320356639 203474 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, elliott: < 1320356804 392801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: anyway, yeah, the Secret Project is cool but I only need about 5% of it, so I'll just take that 5% :P < 1320356834 252982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want to ask you to license me the calls I use under something more lenient if I can convince you making me GPL3 the entirety of my package manager for ten lines is unreasonable :P < 1320356895 50655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : case SYS_sigreturn: < 1320356895 164675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : case -1: /* return half of a sigreturn */ < 1320356898 665286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, what? < 1320356919 346496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : When the Linux kernel creates the stack frame for a signal handler, a call to sigreturn() is inserted into < 1320356919 475789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : the stack frame so that upon return from the signal handler, sigreturn() will be called. < 1320356922 815921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1320356926 995780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one ugly solution < 1320356927 115810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1320356936 102165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oh my god that is one ugly solution beautiful < 1320356938 378209 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :705) oh my god that is one ugly solution beautiful < 1320356949 400588 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syscall number ends up as -1 on the return half, for whatever reason < 1320356966 735525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I doubt make breaks with the clock set to 0 < 1320356977 570628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you even know how make works < 1320356986 627695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but you're using a stupid definition of "break" < 1320356987 422645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, object files must be newer than source files < 1320356999 416930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I unpack all the source with *time=0 on every file < 1320357003 752676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clock is fixed at 0 < 1320357004 999901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run make < 1320357005 391574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is impossible to have a date before t=0 < 1320357013 575546 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: t=-1? < 1320357014 106563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you get the "equals" case < 1320357017 370999 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time_t is signed?) < 1320357020 542142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, oh right, it is signed < 1320357021 277710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1320357024 599304 :nask!~nask@194.150.65.73 QUIT :Quit: begone < 1320357027 55776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: let me get this straight: you think make will create the files, check their mtime, and then retroactively fail to build them? < 1320357028 935189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work properly for negative values < 1320357047 1425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no but I think there are many cases where the build system will end up checking the same file twice < 1320357064 439303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of automess and so on < 1320357071 575122 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a case like "check if the file is newer than its source, if not rebuild it" could easily lead to a loop < 1320357080 373187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could get make to print all the commands it /would/ execute, then execute them all myself :) < 1320357083 464802 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, IIRC configure errors on timestamps making no sense < 1320357103 566701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible of it < 1320357106 889730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh; if I can't fix the clock at 0, I'll have to use the Secret Project < 1320357120 432370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck do timestamps end up in object files, anyway? < 1320357129 649383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only really for the kernel < 1320357142 303035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember that happening elsewhere < 1320357151 692062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nix guys say it's their #1 cause of impurity < 1320357172 794034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the other ones must be even more uncommon < 1320357173 667744 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quite a lot of files have a "last build" date sohwn < 1320357175 137759 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shown < 1320357183 277290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's very common < 1320357186 857509 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you can press some key in NetHack (probably v) to see the date at which it was compiled < 1320357227 21617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1320357298 979939 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wouldn't it be more plausible to set the timestamps to values increasing in the order that the files are actually created (complete with scheduler determinism), starting on the date that that version of the software was released? < 1320357313 564796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm trying to /avoid/ having to rip out the entire scheduler < 1320357315 603221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-j3 would be nice... < 1320357328 642068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not -j8? < 1320357329 274987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(portability is also nice) < 1320357394 209714 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, the scheduling stuff in Secret Project would be portable, if only it knew which syscalls were blocking and which were nonblocking < 1320357403 476764 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspecting orig_eax is the only nonportable bit < 1320357415 711092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so, it's portable except not being portable < 1320357420 557443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/except/except for/ < 1320357421 950689 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and injecting calls to fcntl in cases like read which might be blocking and might be nonblocking depending on what it's reading from < 1320357448 674478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, and various other 32-bit x86 assumptions in the init code and so on < 1320357456 303567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, not in the scheduler < 1320357473 635694 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1320357520 125070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway it is pure with real timestmaps, the current time is part of the input you see < 1320357528 512754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just change the system clock to reproduce it < 1320357529 748045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1320357549 391654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's bullshit even if you're stupid enough to believe that < 1320357553 132262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat after me: scheduler nondeterminism < 1320357558 505185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... I was joking < 1320357581 302447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't (a) interesting (b) funny or (c) accurate in any sense < 1320357599 814808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about using a counter and incrementing for each file touched, in the current process? < 1320357611 208890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nah < 1320357615 979360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs into other issuesx < 1320357618 107285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :issues* < 1320357670 479614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh btw I can imagine nondeterminism might be introduced by order of iterating through files. What order does readdir return entries in? < 1320357682 15524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even well defined? < 1320357714 427775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it'll depend on an rng or the clock or anything. < 1320357754 166833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no but probably on the inode, which file system is used, where in the btree the inodes ended up and so on < 1320357791 772492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually copy out readdir results without sorting < 1320357801 172245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's just a mapM_ doSomething dirContents then it doesn't matter < 1320357806 231588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since doSomething is probably not order-dependent. < 1320357812 626290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would find for example need to do it < 1320357815 679836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to sort < 1320357821 311988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just needs to check if it matches or not < 1320357826 617145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or recurse < 1320357829 449909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ find . < 1320357829 566895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1320357829 620449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./build.sh < 1320357829 620610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ktt.c < 1320357829 620719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./weboflies.c < 1320357833 625780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence? you decide < 1320357838 709815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :find ~ is also sorted < 1320357844 763915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1320357849 627910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ find . < 1320357849 744004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1320357849 796578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./weboflies.c < 1320357849 796749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ktt.c < 1320357849 796859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./build.sh < 1320357850 213457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./weboflies < 1320357851 777608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mpt sprted < 1320357853 951676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not* < 1320357860 108178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprted < 1320357863 706721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorted* < 1320357868 914839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe it depends on fs then < 1320357871 679886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one are you using < 1320357874 997875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ext4 here < 1320357877 186087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jfs < 1320357880 930547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1320357891 172365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you see, it isn't deterministic across file systems < 1320357892 505610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what kind of build process does find . >foo < 1320357903 599673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pedantic complaints about determinism should be directed at ais523\unfoog < 1320357908 696867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the one trying to do that < 1320357941 519285 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you see sort_dents? < 1320357946 862834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well a build system might enumerate files in a directory if you do a wild card on sources, as might be done in cmake. < 1320357948 594883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, haha < 1320357958 994304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so? < 1320357963 340445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :build rules should be independent of one another < 1320357968 212881 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :directories get sorted into alphabetical order before returning them < 1320357970 384155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any build that depends on ordering is broken < 1320357972 359491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should. < 1320357974 44724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and won't work with -j < 1320357985 23102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant for an incrementing timestamp < 1320357987 311242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what you're saying is, "I bet people use build rules that only work if you use the right filesystem" < 1320357989 20729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there it would matter < 1320358007 216453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Nix does something similar, incidentally < 1320358009 607727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: at package-creation time < 1320358015 213024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has its own archiving format < 1320358018 699374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway something that *might* work: unpack files and date them 0. Then use a later date for actually running at < 1320358023 900532 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what happens if a process asks for half a directory < 1320358040 95731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could run it at @1, I suppose, even if that's ugly < 1320358047 216692 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might fail if the buffer given isn't large enough to hold the whole directory < 1320358047 274479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you unpack files as @-1? :) < 1320358051 515999 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it'll get an arbitrary part of it < 1320358057 874334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think that is going to be reliable < 1320358075 443910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, how do I set an mtime? < 1320358078 120088 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @1? < 1320358087 746449 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: touch -m < 1320358100 763657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: http://www.gnu.org/s/automake/manual/tar/Date-input-formats.html < 1320358110 698116 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also changes the ctime, though, because you can't change a file's timestamps without changing the ctime < 1320358117 104484 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, right; epoch + 1 < 1320358117 233715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, you have a lot of syscall stuff to do for 64-bit. some syscalls differ substantially in number and order of arguments, and even if they exist or not < 1320358128 962829 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 second, that is < 1320358131 100998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -m @-1 foo < 1320358131 153805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358131 154041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 Nov 3 22:08 foo < 1320358132 247688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320358139 571074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -m @0 foo < 1320358139 684084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358139 736614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 Nov 3 22:08 foo < 1320358139 736705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... < 1320358147 218579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, anyway, you have a lot of syscall stuff to do for 64-bit. some syscalls differ substantially in number and order of arguments, and even if they exist or not < 1320358153 953106 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: same minute, as they differ by a second? < 1320358156 261190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're deliberately trying to annoy me by pretending I'm ais523\unfoog, right? < 1320358166 543422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm trying to set the absolute timestamp < 1320358173 673006 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is why I'm focusing on x86 first < 1320358174 303373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, you are the one interested in this on 64-bit? < 1320358185 723545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, hm < 1320358191 903272 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliott isn't interested in doing the syscall manipulation, even though that's the whole /point/ < 1320358207 605873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :he needs to if he wants the time to work as advertised < 1320358211 919420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: stop acting offended like I'm misunderstanding some magic point of the secret project :) < 1320358220 732092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some parts of it are helpful, some aren't < 1320358225 882656 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1320358234 966823 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to figure out which part you think is helpful < 1320358242 451423 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you don't want the scheduler, or the syscall rewrite < 1320358247 370974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, btw I think you might possibly run into issues with gettimeofday on 64-bit linux. IIRC that doesn't actually go to kernel there, but just reads a page with a timer mapped into the process by the kernel < 1320358253 516423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised this isn't done on 32-bit < 1320358268 848974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, it is in the vdso iirc < 1320358271 353484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: disabling some nasty easy sources of nondeterminism, and overriding the clock/uname/some other things < 1320358275 599824 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ouch < 1320358290 457887 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clock/uname overrides are processor-specific < 1320358303 923609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think clock_whatever is done the same way btw < 1320358313 245444 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why touch has a -f flag that's documented to do nothing < 1320358328 120455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compat < 1320358329 383295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it isn't even in 1p < 1320358334 659925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not POSIX compat < 1320358349 130936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: sigh, what made you think touch -m let me specify a timestamp? < 1320358357 796679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two files called @0 and @-1 now < 1320358369 769200 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, -d specifies the timestamp; -m tells it to change just the modificatoin time < 1320358376 628040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx :p < 1320358387 564512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, http://sprunge.us/SBHU < 1320358393 134684 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't quite ask the right question < 1320358402 280196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, that is how it is done. glibc call those < 1320358412 761074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they are weak symbols in there, not sure which < 1320358415 613221 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, and I can't unmap just part of the vdso < 1320358416 900652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -d @-1 foo < 1320358416 952931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358417 19369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 Jan 1 1970 foo < 1320358421 243114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's special-casing that < 1320358426 844856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1320358428 825187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring negative values < 1320358436 426918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -d @-9999 foo < 1320358436 479760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358436 479943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 Dec 31 1969 foo < 1320358438 281637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wow < 1320358446 223119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320358458 255991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just absurd < 1320358466 672281 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something to do with timezones, perhaps? < 1320358471 774862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously < 1320358473 61104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -d @-9223372036854775808 foo < 1320358473 217468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358473 270063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 -9223372036854775808 foo < 1320358476 815130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSS < 1320358478 918052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1320358480 481005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNPACKED AT THE BEGINNING OF TIME < 1320358483 372045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320358490 381396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what date is that technically? < 1320358495 844059 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is ls outputing the timestamp like that? < 1320358495 924761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -d @-9223372036854775 foo < 1320358495 977368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358495 977547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 May 16 -292275055 foo < 1320358506 719305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I must have confused it :) < 1320358508 87643 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quick, get a date in year 0 < 1320358515 579014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, errr, help? < 1320358530 802710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ date -d"Jan 1 0" +%s < 1320358530 917694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1293840000 < 1320358535 551496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, er, seems wrong < 1320358536 145075 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523@desert:~/taeb/TAEB$ sdate ls -l < 1320358537 259743 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 123212 < 1320358538 769436 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :drwxr-xr-x 2 ais523 ais523 4096 1993-09-6547 18:24 bin < 1320358540 664242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 0000 does it < 1320358551 869563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait was there a year zero IN REAL LIFE? < 1320358553 259067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ touch -d @-62167219125 foo < 1320358553 370020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh foo < 1320358553 423138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 0 Jan 1 0000 foo < 1320358554 627396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there was < 1320358555 484919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: tada < 1320358555 645968 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no < 1320358559 771836 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay < 1320358561 87690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it went 1 BCE -> 1 CE < 1320358568 216052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, x86-64 has another even stranger thing than the vdso, called vsyscall < 1320358568 387182 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of that zero shit. < 1320358572 743227 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, why did I never think of doing sdate ls before now? < 1320358573 575777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: year 0 is 1 BC, I think < 1320358578 112766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: since it's just using negative numebrs < 1320358584 4133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, that is not even a full dynamic object, just a weird page < 1320358590 255975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7fff8b1ff000-7fff8b200000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0 [vdso] < 1320358590 367865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffff600000-ffffffffff601000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0 [vsyscall] < 1320358596 312025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is used for some stuff < 1320358605 186358 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of fs < 1320358622 537758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, it is in the kernel half of the address space (the negative half) < 1320358629 747494 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the top half < 1320358637 61376 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't insist to me that addresses are signed, I won't believe you < 1320358649 319355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, well, the ISA manuals claims they are signed < 1320358698 287177 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're addresses, not numbers < 1320358744 117850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I live at -4224 Hood Rd. Anywhere, USA < 1320358758 618196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, anyway vsyscall contains gettimeofday, time, getcpu and possibly set_cpu, I'm not quite sure, it is confusing < 1320358764 434107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc the mechanism predates vdso < 1320358766 124112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so, wait, how do I fix the clock on x86-64? < 1320358770 310954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is deprecated, but can't be removed < 1320358771 136907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remap that area of ram? < 1320358778 884400 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess vdso and vsyscall will have to be made unreadable < 1320358780 461675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not sure the kernel will allow that < 1320358783 897964 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sigsegvs caught < 1320358791 711519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what am I meant to do, then? < 1320358796 208047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers asking #linux < 1320358800 950262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Why do you think I will know < 1320358804 266453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good luck with THAT < 1320358807 402545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1320358833 608518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers trolling them with it < 1320358837 688984 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1320358840 943052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, doesn't 32-bit linux have vdso? < 1320358846 923643 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason I ask secret project questions here < 1320358851 931946 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but so far I haven't caught anything using it < 1320358862 427200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : nm -D vdso32-syscall.so < 1320358862 479820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000 A LINUX_2.5 < 1320358862 480000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000410 T __kernel_rt_sigreturn < 1320358862 480109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000400 T __kernel_sigreturn < 1320358862 480219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000420 T __kernel_vsyscall < 1320358866 55266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems safe < 1320358866 913263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm doing something perfectly respectable! < 1320358884 604178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, there is an int80 and a sysenter version too < 1320358885 179955 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, rt_sigreturn, sigreturn and vsyscall are all handlable < 1320358892 656413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: tbh, what I need is basically chroot + unprivileged user + forced clock + empty environment + forced hostname < 1320358900 1850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: the rest is just feelgood :) < 1320358903 144950 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty environment is trivial < 1320358909 920888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320358912 107528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no shit < 1320358912 596963 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the host/name/ can easily be set, too; it's namespaced < 1320358912 652996 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you're bad at secret projects because I FIGURED OUT YOUR SECRET PROJECT HAHAHAHA < 1320358921 924803 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: by reading other people discussing it? < 1320358925 897493 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1320358929 867589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes < 1320358931 53396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using my magical powers. < 1320358936 790490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, do I really need namespace support to do that? < 1320358950 217474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pretty sure yes < 1320358956 88682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross! But okay. < 1320358976 280193 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, but you don't want to set the hostname for every other process on the system too, do you? < 1320358987 286204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Nix does is: Unprivileged user (nixbld[1-9] usually), empty environment < 1320358993 623327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only one build runs as one of the users at a time < 1320358996 371175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for a multi-user thing < 1320358997 231009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, anyway it might happen that ptrace catches those system calls, but I would suspect it won't < 1320358998 404068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stupid hole they have < 1320359002 702377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that fixes it < 1320359006 110551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no :) < 1320359017 408014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, any ideas wrt me overriding the clock would be helpful < 1320359018 348584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320359019 350403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: your secret is to bother people with questions about a secret project. The reason secrecy is integral to the project is that if people knew why you were asking questions they'd just stop caring. < 1320359023 310292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :muahahahahaha < 1320359025 130476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't I just increment it by one second every time it's called? < 1320359029 62341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we already know, you moron < 1320359029 480088 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nope, they still care < 1320359048 432702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but what about scheduling then < 1320359064 279062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fair enough, I guess make might race-condition it < 1320359073 920068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets say you are building the kernel at -j3, when is the actual "embed for uname" done < 1320359075 970731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will vary < 1320359077 594925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't think unpacking files at -1 and running the build at 0 will break anything unfixably. < 1320359082 264616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that some kind of subatomic particle? < 1320359093 493114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think if you add 2 to those then you will be safe < 1320359100 103843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless configure errors out < 1320359111 340863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no thanks, I'd prefer the file-embedded timestamps to be the epoch < 1320359113 470272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an aesthetic thing < 1320359117 430566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway the date ais523\unfoog selected is a good one < 1320359126 385923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, but it's not as elegant as all-zeroes < 1320359134 835133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, all 1? < 1320359141 836369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds... unwise < 1320359145 27167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's just -1 < 1320359146 688283 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not ereghant < 1320359151 103002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm already using < 1320359151 584665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ha < 1320359157 620079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well all 1 except signbit < 1320359177 740136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, did you mean: not elephant < 1320359180 344435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that'll break in a couple of decades. maybe. :p < 1320359190 887760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll let you puzzle on that one. < 1320359193 565155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 64-bit linux uses 64-bit time_t < 1320359201 931771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, elephant definitely < 1320359225 455741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what about dwarf fortress??? < 1320359251 884925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will it still be 32-bit in a couple of decades? < 1320359260 278457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bet it will need more than 4 GB RAM by then < 1320359315 934341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ldd ./vdso.so < 1320359316 44183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: exited with unknown exit code (139) < 1320359316 789489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1320359320 173024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite impressive < 1320359324 949291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd is a massive security hole < 1320359328 696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1320359331 544594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just runs the binary with an environment var :P < 1320359333 474949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320359337 12559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is why I was wondering what it would do < 1320359344 334228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on something not using glibc even < 1320359359 332922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: something that doesn't support it would just run normally < 1320359372 838297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the sysadmin who runs as root and a malicious statically-linked program that a user is complaining about... :) < 1320359374 631980 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is ldd restricted to running executables? < 1320359391 878231 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, does it refuse to run -x things? < 1320359393 739635 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it should < 1320359405 50338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1320359406 725649 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1320359414 845890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ldd ./2011-10-30.txt < 1320359414 961279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: ./2011-10-30.txt: No such file or directory < 1320359415 13443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ldd ~/Code/weboflies/build.sh < 1320359415 13610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : not a dynamic executable < 1320359417 710293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, including the tab < 1320359419 744079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it printed < 1320359436 371864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-xing it does: < 1320359439 273085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ldd ~/Code/weboflies/build.sh < 1320359439 391072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: warning: you do not have execution permission for `/home/elliott/Code/weboflies/build.sh' < 1320359439 444075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : not a dynamic executable < 1320359452 841058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it doesn't mention any ld.so < 1320359453 826247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1320359455 654969 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"warning:" < 1320359470 644071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"error:" < 1320359490 424152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will continue if you have mulitple files on the line < 1320359504 930931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone use calibre on linux? if so, uninstall it < 1320359510 682081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is calibre? < 1320359517 718175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a popular ebook manager thing < 1320359523 929293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is it bad? < 1320359527 505610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027 < 1320359531 238462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :severely buggy suid helper < 1320359542 51744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary package? < 1320359551 526524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's open-source < 1320359555 80448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1320359561 570856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ability to execute any program as root." < 1320359564 456117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that bad < 1320359565 518625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320359579 102723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it have a suid bit at all < 1320359580 903767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I dont see how 1-3 are security vulnerabilities. 4 is a vulnerability only if < 1320359580 956251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount itself is vulnerable to command line injection. 5 is indeed a < 1320359580 956428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vulnerability, but is neccesitated by the non uniformity of linux filesystems < 1320359580 956539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mount, eject can be located anywhere). 5 can be mitigated by first checking < 1320359580 956647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mount and eject in "standard" locations and only then trying all of PATH, < 1320359581 878683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes for that will be in the next release." < 1320359587 863117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ criminally irresponsible maintainer < 1320359592 708755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, not criminally) < 1320359598 908200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mounting ebook devices, presumably < 1320359602 465935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without root < 1320359604 289868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hal? < 1320359610 533135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dbus or whatever < 1320359614 973527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's what policykit is for nowadays... < 1320359615 972414 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 is a bug if you put a symlink there, isn't it? < 1320359624 627249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: all of them are serious bugs < 1320359632 693320 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320359638 180817 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out what the exploit would be < 1320359646 686847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"6. An unprivileged user an mount/unmount/eject whatever he wants, with < 1320359646 739650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :root permissions. Danger." < 1320359648 939717 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating empty dirs as root isn't obviously exploitable, for instance < 1320359650 785593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this is the worst setuid executable in history < 1320359663 369697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: e.g. if something looks for a lock there < 1320359663 888850 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for annoying people < 1320359669 814090 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right < 1320359692 800365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You mean that a program designed to let an unprivileged user < 1320359692 852953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount/unmount/eject anything he wants has a security flaw because it allows < 1320359692 853032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :him to mount/unmount/eject anything he wants? I'm shocked. < 1320359692 853076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implement a system that allows an appilcation to mount/unmount/eject USB < 1320359692 853152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :devices connected to the system securely, then make sure that system is < 1320359693 739291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :universally adopted on every linux install in the universe. Once you've done that, feel free to < 1320359695 304618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-open this ticket." < 1320359700 5218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, remind me to avoid this person's code, forever < 1320359739 665946 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reply is funny; "Unfortunately, sarcasm does not make you right." < 1320359741 333053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch yeah < 1320359763 805140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: more people need to listen to that advice, I think... < 1320359783 771256 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he replied "Sarcasm doesn't make me right, being right makes me right." < 1320359794 49402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, they generate a linker script for the vdso. As in, you aren't supposed to edit the .lds, but rather edit the generator < 1320359797 760801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shocking as that < 1320359797 876483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :may seem, I am actually aware of the dangers" < 1320359800 196663 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he submitted a fix, and someone broke that one too < 1320359801 347660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not competent enough to avoid them < 1320359831 814146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* < 1320359831 902938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Align the actual code well away from the non-instruction data. < 1320359831 903102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * This is the best thing for the I-cache. < 1320359831 903209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1320359842 115069 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, by creating a filesystem file with some suid executables on it and loopback-mounting it with calibre < 1320359843 308778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, from the vdso *linker script* < 1320359853 751799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alignment is 0x100 < 1320359873 349940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is because it will end up updating the data page a lot from the kernel < 1320359911 939508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, wait, what is the point of that? < 1320359918 603241 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he fixed it again, to only mount files in /dev < 1320359923 252178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1320359927 600862 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course vulnerable to race conditions < 1320359928 185565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, this can't be real? < 1320359933 628652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is an exploit < 1320359935 213687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the fix < 1320359938 986713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1320359943 59337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the suid part, that is < 1320359945 962372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the dev part < 1320359955 327593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the dev part < 1320359970 437469 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploits exploit incorrect assumptions, so typically involve doing something crazy < 1320359979 301323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320359983 138904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have to pass some kind of exam to ship setuid executables to users < 1320359991 818819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably that exam should be "you can convince a package maintainer to package it"... < 1320360025 309187 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's just been pointed out that unprivileged users /can/ create symlinks in /dev < 1320360031 778820 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd missed that myself < 1320360041 298866 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know how? or shall I just give the solution? < 1320360043 723067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can? < 1320360046 132899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know how < 1320360049 76161 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow gregor. i'm pretty impressed. opus 13 is a nice piece of art. < 1320360053 384128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, /dev/shm < 1320360056 261923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would do it < 1320360057 826136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: good god, this guy just keeps patching his piece of shit < 1320360062 645652 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1320360071 442192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1320360072 628394 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and Dan Rosenberg comes up with a new exploit every time < 1320360077 886171 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a great thread < 1320360083 332317 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it on relevant-part-of-reddit yet? < 1320360085 848467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: isn't it Jason A. Donenfield doing the exploits? < 1320360087 16069 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably fits on proggit < 1320360088 196374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yep < 1320360090 964833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where I found it < 1320360095 938327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How not to respond to vulnerabilities in your code (bugs.launchpad.net) < 1320360100 153938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lzb5h/how_not_to_respond_to_vulnerabilities_in_your_code/) < 1320360103 934180 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, multiple people < 1320360125 418526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2) It may not even be installed on some distros, for example, it isn't installed by default on gentoo." < 1320360132 295050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can't depend on pmount, gentoo doesn't install it by default :DDD < 1320360142 766679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, this code is quite pretty btw: http://sprunge.us/cHgf (from the vdso) < 1320360147 77852 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MEME THAT TIME FORGOT: "BRB I can be doll" < 1320360171 199155 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pointless meme < 1320360171 252983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, it uses a sequence counter to ensure a consistent reading of the time < 1320360175 936647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@Rosenberg: Yes, I have. And you were warned, this is the last response you < 1320360176 89174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will get from me." < 1320360186 274271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT WILL YOU DO ABOUT MY SECURITY HOLES NOW THAT I CANNOT HEAR YOU??? MWAHAHAHAHA < 1320360211 177837 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It's actually what the receipt from Mattel says if you order a Barbie I Can Be™ Doll < 1320360219 199606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did they open a CVE? < 1320360224 516534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, he's a Gentoo user... I'm going to try really hard to be shocked < 1320360256 455548 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, someone pointed out a security hole in the exploit < 1320360261 316959 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out if that's clever or missing the point < 1320360267 728460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, heh? < 1320360274 877440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, which comment < 1320360284 117010 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: running the exploit code lets arbitrary people run executables with your perms < 1320360290 202058 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#37 < 1320360305 685069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320360330 485342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not sure this is actually exploitable...the posted exploit fails on my GNU/kFreeBSD box: < 1320360330 538270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc 70calibrerassaultmount.sh -o full-nelson" < 1320360334 130266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, I do think it is clever, rather than missing the point < 1320360334 833534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: facepalm with me < 1320360346 805793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is there different compiler (icc?) or architecture (maybe needs a RISC arch?) requirement?" < 1320360349 223675 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh dear < 1320360356 141408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320360365 106691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Until this comment, I was on the side of fixing with the exploits. Now, as far as I am concerned you should go play frisbee on a freeway." ;; that was a different person you moron < 1320360373 69375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION replies to people where they can hear it, in #esoteric < 1320360381 603295 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#41 is a reasonably sane comment < 1320360395 139583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320360406 805597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I would like ubuntu for not including this obviously exploitable test case in the face of an arrogant security researcher." < 1320360413 466926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I think missing the point, for sure < 1320360434 115766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm pretty sure someone is trying to be cleaver there. < 1320360445 543277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from the same comment that points out the "exploit" < 1320360453 605776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1320360455 891268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the exploit) < 1320360458 146601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, *clever < 1320360466 628101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1320360476 252847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling is for amateurs < 1320360483 871191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lzb5h/how_not_to_respond_to_vulnerabilities_in_your_code/c2wuix0 < 1320360506 385803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers are way too touchy :P < 1320360551 951338 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, speling iz foar amacherz < 1320360665 558839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The thing is, there's not much out there that supports so many formats. It's incredibly extensive. The devs have just put tons of time into adding feature after feature after feature. They even do their own IPC and lots of other little things that remind me of my first gigantic project where I crammed everything I could think of into one program to learn about everything." < 1320360666 270481 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling is for linguists < 1320360666 385368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1320360674 371683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: that's not what a linguist is < 1320360696 798566 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you mean elliott? < 1320360697 735986 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is correct < 1320360707 679216 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur is correct. < 1320360708 264299 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1320360711 665386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: a linguist is not someone who likes languages/knows a lot of languages/enjoys using language < 1320360724 731081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, they might do any or all of those, but that's not what a linguist /is/) < 1320360731 289821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: reddit wisdom: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lzb5h/how_not_to_respond_to_vulnerabilities_in_your_code/c2wu5qx < 1320360739 731427 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said that < 1320360763 56070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the relevance of being a linguist to spelling properly :P < 1320360790 317121 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistics is the formal study of language. That's all. < 1320360804 851104 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1320360825 517946 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however didnt mean to insult our linguists here :P < 1320360868 919569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lucky so few of us like languages.- < 1320360873 164242 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-- < 1320360877 787207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think augur is the only linguist here :P < 1320360895 464431 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think augur's the only linguist here. Though if you include dilettantes you can make that plural. < 1320361081 602098 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure most of the regulars have some sort of language fetish here < 1320361092 263141 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not a very regular one < 1320361182 440360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what man cannot say he has not fallen to the subtle allure of Swedish? < 1320361190 298597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The answer is all of them. Even the Swedes.) < 1320361192 803902 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Bork bork bork. < 1320361213 359454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually use /sys nowadays? ais523\unfoog? Vorpal? < 1320361214 430371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, please don't, this is polite company. < 1320361221 986865 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't remember what it's for < 1320361235 33372 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the swedes have learned swedish < 1320361238 720288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like /proc but with syssy stuff. < 1320361249 380153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: /proc/sys, except for when you're in the past < 1320361276 6247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/proc/sys/dev is my new favourite path. < 1320361287 848298 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it exists in this system, and is not identical to /proc/sys < 1320361290 766089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can set it to ~. < 1320361297 358260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I know that. < 1320361305 823731 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anything's using it < 1320361307 613663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Huh? < 1320361314 124390 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :".'s home directory"? < 1320361321 869201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall it being essential for udev. < 1320361322 540072 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that was a full stop < 1320361333 643447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punctuation is an evil from which we may never be free. < 1320361334 81582 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none on /sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl (rw) < 1320361558 866414 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1320361671 126210 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1320362268 332012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does anyone actually use /sys nowadays? ais523\unfoog? Vorpal? <-- uh yes? < 1320362270 91416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :udev < 1320362271 760479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot more < 1320362276 68393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1320362286 491900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it provides info about devices and so on < 1320362297 838084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the semantic difference between /proc and /sys < 1320362311 236030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1320362313 820358 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320362317 354488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /proc is for pids + some other stuff < 1320362332 332533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some stuff is being moved or has been moved from /proc to /sys I know < 1320362333 736715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls /proc/sys < 1320362333 789483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :abi debug dev fs kernel net vm < 1320362333 789720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls /sys < 1320362333 789861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :block bus class dev devices firmware fs hypervisor kernel module power < 1320362333 790082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the semantic distinction between these two < 1320362335 652621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :during 2.6.x < 1320362347 54349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /proc/sys is basically sysctl < 1320362350 884242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else < 1320362357 867259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought sysfs was basically sysctl too. < 1320362361 829592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /sys is for device discovery and so on < 1320362363 989305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, far from it < 1320362374 553684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is similar to the sysctl mechanism found in BSD systems" --wp < 1320362390 327007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1320362393 197006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is used to discover things, like what devices exist < 1320362396 992397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks to have two directories for "misc. kernel shit". < 1320362417 929087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/proc is really over-populated < 1320362432 995591 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On the contrary, we should have more. < 1320362443 27028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls -l /sys/block/ < 1320362443 143577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :totalt 0 < 1320362443 195890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 2011-11-04 00:19 dm-0 -> ../devices/virtual/block/dm-0 < 1320362443 499310 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directories galore. < 1320362454 560712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totalt < 1320362457 723078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a lot more < 1320362464 62259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sv_SE I think < 1320362508 674280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway a few files in /sys are for setting stuff, mostly stuff related to a particular instance of a driver for a specific hardware < 1320362514 371720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than system-global settings < 1320362553 104178 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /proc started as a "information about processes" filesystem, became a "generic kernel shit" filesystem. Now they're trying to make /sys the generic kernel shit filesystem, and /proc the information about processes filesystem. < 1320362555 102465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, say, if you want to add a foo-switch to every block device, chances is it goes into /sys, if you want a global foo-switch for the entire system, it becomes a sysctl and goes into /proc/sys < 1320362579 475323 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they could do things from scratch they'd probably make it /sys/proc < 1320362584 656425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320362587 582091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense < 1320362670 217842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think udev mainly uses /sys/{block,bus,dev,devices} < 1320362674 792913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some more < 1320362698 90445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't proc be ... yeah, /sys/proc. < 1320362712 498706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell stuff proc is in a different place? :p < 1320362722 90963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, where is /sys documented btw? Like /sys/firmware/memmap/0/{end,start,type}, I have no idea what that is for < 1320362731 688786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably not < 1320362743 199144 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably somewhere in linux-x.y.z/Documentation/ < 1320362746 795151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I doubt mkdir /sys/proc would work < 1320362769 513757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ldd ./vdso.so < 1320362769 567330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: exited with unknown exit code (139) < 1320362770 976814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1320362776 143143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess so :P < 1320362776 613831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you synergy < 1320362777 903847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't work for me < 1320362790 87129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /sys/firmware/memmap/ < 1320362790 140145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 < 1320362799 150303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to fix the copy-paste bug for synergy btw < 1320362815 904293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried the maintained fork < 1320362825 673802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is what I'm using < 1320362846 948346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway only some programs exhibit it, and it starts randomly a while after connecting < 1320363130 468268 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320363278 760969 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :私のホバークラフトはうなぎでいっぱいです! <- The only phrase in Japanese anyone ever needs to know. < 1320363304 581408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what does it mean? < 1320363342 88350 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(watashi no hobākurafuto wa unagi de ippai desu!) [watasi no hohầkurahuto ha unagì tè i'håi tèsu] < 1320363349 186529 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "My hovercraft is full of eels." < 1320363351 623444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320363405 234475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gì/kì/ < 1320363775 639045 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320363903 518103 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /sys/firmware/memmap < 1320363905 151500 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /sys/firmware/memmap: No such file or directory < 1320363936 246862 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /sys < 1320363938 283215 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :block \ bus \ class \ dev \ devices \ firmware \ fs \ kernel \ module < 1320364533 61424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1320365804 355916 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320365926 920814 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320365945 475463 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1320366009 860279 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1320366149 848569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, the two people I was gonna talk to both quit at the same time < 1320367315 639468 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320368656 778739 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DFDC.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320369198 903247 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320370123 835613 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320370124 445176 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1320370124 497590 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1320372384 510627 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320373622 831655 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1320374396 489263 :slayerten!~administr@1.192.154.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320374435 989892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi slayerten < 1320374437 113629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1320374439 289303 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1320374565 574908 :slayerten!~administr@1.192.154.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1320374568 508041 :slayerten!~administr@1.192.154.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3q < 1320375137 997070 :slayerten!~administr@1.192.154.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320375212 966121 :slayerten!~administr@1.192.154.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320375539 299936 :slayerten!~administr@1.192.154.138 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1320376550 618262 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chili and basil give rise to its distinctive spiciness." < 1320376556 898239 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, when I think "spicy", I think "basil" < 1320376564 428406 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That spicy, spicy basil. < 1320376654 609533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Archive maintainers are encouraged to copy this < 1320376654 662296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :distribution to their archives outside the USA. Please get it from < 1320376654 662471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp.gwdg.de; transferring this distribution from ftp.gnu.org (or any other < 1320376654 662578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :site in the USA) to a site outside the USA is in violation of US export < 1320376654 662685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws." < 1320376659 197203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, GNU offer a way to violate US export laws on demand. < 1320376665 311990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody outside the US download this file: http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/glibc/glibc-crypt-2.1.tar.gz < 1320376704 667677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's them that violate the laws, right? < 1320376712 444489 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1320376716 70870 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1320376726 495874 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have just illegally exported it < 1320376737 779604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320376747 775141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the burden is meant to be on the distributors, which is why everyone's paranoid about it < 1320376902 595478 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The USA has actually relaxed its export regulations since 200something. < 1320376906 384692 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008? 2009? < 1320376926 320368 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse what Wikipedia says ... < 1320377092 461900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to notify the Bureau of Industry and Security. But that's all, there's no licensing or other restrictions, they just have to KNOWWWWWWWW. < 1320377105 974923 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it seems that for any given source release you only have to notify once. < 1320377113 626855 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. mirroring isn't an issue) < 1320377416 206037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1320377540 280041 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you have the option of emailing them, or faxing AND mailing them! (Note: that is not an "or", it is an "and") < 1320377669 576227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1320377682 110566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now would be a great time to force a horrific question on you. < 1320377690 978575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How'd I override the Linux clock syscalls to always return the epoch < 1320377972 951233 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... magick? < 1320378054 922682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So. Unhelpful. < 1320378074 358750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this rate it looks like I'm gonna have to steal Web of Lies' architecture-specific syscall-overriding code... < 1320378715 145579 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320378925 537942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo ./weboflies ls < 1320378925 627007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := WARNING: mount("/home/ais523", "/tmp/home/ais523", 0, MS_BIND|MS_RDONLY, 0): No such file or directory < 1320378925 627228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := WARNING: mount("/home/ais523/weboflies/nethack/nethack", "/tmp/var/games/nethack", 0, MS_BIND, 0): No such file or directory < 1320378925 627339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := WARNING: mount("/etc/nethack", "/tmp/etc/nethack", 0, MS_BIND|MS_RDONLY, 0): No such file or directory < 1320378926 562750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := WARNING: unexpected signal 11 sent to pid 13002 < 1320378928 423891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ executed program terminated < 1320378930 456129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1320378935 425125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you shoot ais for me? < 1320378945 434404 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :😤😤lolwut < 1320378965 170049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm trying to get the Project Formerly Known as the Secret Project running :P < 1320378972 990890 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is web-o-flies related to --- so yes. < 1320378983 358349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web o' Flies X-D < 1320378995 53665 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much better than the alternate reading. < 1320379058 421651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, right now it has a bunch of lolunportable bind mounts :P < 1320379069 598165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if 1 < 1320379069 650702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* make my home dir visible inside the chroot, for testing */ < 1320379069 650887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mkdir("/tmp/home/ais523", 0755)); < 1320379069 650997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mount("/home/ais523", "/tmp/home/ais523", 0, MS_BIND|MS_RDONLY, 0)); < 1320379069 651121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* more for-testing things */ < 1320379069 854982 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that way, dunnit. < 1320379070 591845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mkdir("/tmp/var/games", 0755)); < 1320379072 613411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mkdir("/tmp/var/games/nethack", 0755)); < 1320379074 607330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mount("/home/ais523/weboflies/nethack/nethack", "/tmp/var/games/nethack", 0, MS_BIND, 0)); < 1320379076 517511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mkdir("/tmp/etc/nethack", 0755)); < 1320379078 570774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mount("/etc/nethack", "/tmp/etc/nethack", 0, MS_BIND|MS_RDONLY, 0)); < 1320379080 617048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1320379104 174550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if 1 < 1320379104 293824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* make my home dir visible inside the chroot, for testing */ < 1320379104 346146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mkdir("/tmp/home/elliott", 0755)); < 1320379104 346307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ewarn(mount("/home/elliott", "/tmp/home/elliott", 0, MS_BIND|MS_RDONLY, 0)); < 1320379105 678324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1320379107 675935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar we go < 1320379109 986456 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/if 1/if 0/ PROBLEM SOLVED < 1320379121 911289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Damn, I was gonna ask if you've seen the source code but then I realise ais gave it to me in private :P < 1320379124 425090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... it's something else. < 1320379134 756907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance it's over 4000 lines in a single C file :P < 1320379150 585392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo ./weboflies ls < 1320379150 701356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := ERROR: stat proc/pid/fd: Permission denied < 1320379150 754531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't... even... < 1320379152 785835 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when you complained about Plof's interpreter function? < 1320379169 93629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You want me to hold everyone by ais' coding standards? < 1320379174 116780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all off scot free. < 1320379210 332529 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think I have a new winner of my Unicode Nonsense Prize. < 1320379218 741104 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOAT ain't got nothin' on CAT FACE WITH WRY SMILE < 1320379265 522108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :P < 1320379294 502083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f639/index.htm < 1320379326 373320 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I found it on fileformat.info's list. < 1320379333 419841 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that WRY SMILE is better though. < 1320379458 146384 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damn Japan. < 1320379509 519354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seriously though... you gotta see this thing's code before you die. < 1320379519 949339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every comment is like a paragraph of pure horror. < 1320379575 953302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have I mentioned it does SDL support by using a PNG framebuffer? < 1320379587 598248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, it uses a framebuffer which it can screenshot to PNG :P Still) < 1320379597 691982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In-memory framebuffer, that is) < 1320379611 727637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f648/index.htm < 1320379771 904898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+01A2 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OI < 1320379771 998941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+01A3 LATIN SMALL LETTER OI < 1320379771 999123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :These should have been called letter GHA. They are neither pronounced 'oi' nor based on the letters 'o' and 'i'. < 1320379771 999233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://unicode.org/notes/tn27/ < 1320379775 747996 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm, is there an esolang that the source code is raw waveform (audible or not)? < 1320379797 112555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: piet encoded as pcm :p < 1320379813 357574 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no novelty. :p < 1320379843 857552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :input-format languages are rarely novel :P something that based it on some kind of actually interesting waveformy analysis would be interesting < 1320379844 312812 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At least they kinda LOOK like OI. < 1320379849 405225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably involve reals and thus be a pain to run < 1320379858 821053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereby "a pain" means "impossible") < 1320379905 36680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you logread to see what the Secret Project is actually for? Wait, you never logread, do you :P < 1320379917 505309 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :\/win 4 < 1320379930 61976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no...... < 1320379966 999764 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have thought that such language may build a network of filters (or DSPs, if you prefer) and run the input through it < 1320379980 40070 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, but I have some vague familiarity from earlier mentions of it. < 1320379981 832212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that would be pretty. so the input would be audio too? < 1320379983 857046 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Software repeatability. < 1320379985 843209 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320379996 297191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right. It's for tool-assisted speedruns. < 1320380017 455931 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whuhwhuh < 1320380022 243088 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be some fixed sources (i.e. sources and sinks) that appears in the source code as a wave literal < 1320380022 536115 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was for SCIENCE. < 1320380033 531261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tool-assisted speedruns are pretty damn scientific :P < 1320380038 95640 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1320380041 865053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already knew it wasn't testing or anything *shrugs* < 1320380057 182325 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how to encode all these informations to some pretty waveforms though :S < 1320380107 648820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1F46F/index.htm I... < 1320380190 164253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f487/index.htm; very next codepoint: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f488/index.htm < 1320380224 940890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have I mentioned Web of Lies does cooperative scheduling by overriding every single syscall to schedule < 1320380238 437680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that syscalls block and yield appropriately. < 1320380250 383898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so beautiful :P < 1320380274 83103 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAT vs. MOUSE: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f400/index.htm http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f401/index.htm < 1320380285 15868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, and it overrides syscalls by using ptrace, transforming the arguments, calling the real syscall, then transforming the result in the process's memory in-place. < 1320380341 323171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MEANWHILE: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f51b/index.htm < 1320380891 932341 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :name a dangerous part of london < 1320380933 861680 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere < 1320380942 798822 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you most likely to get mugged < 1320381032 260909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasgow < 1320381410 504566 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: 70s, Protestant neighborhood in Ireland, while being the Pope. < 1320381451 459993 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not in london, but i appreciate the thought < 1320381504 76066 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *in London*? < 1320381521 549762 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just be named Guy Fawkes. That should do it. < 1320381522 181421 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1320381944 901938 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's actually pretty damned nifty. < 1320381960 773178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's /horrifying/. It /manually messes with registers/. < 1320381966 921829 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And? :P < 1320381994 403687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is Gregor you're talking to. < 1320382045 315187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Gregor: You guys can't even begin to talk, you haven't SEEN this shit :P < 1320382063 756751 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I wrote something similar in/for JavaScript ... < 1320382077 533769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eh? < 1320382081 764508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you referring to? < 1320382186 2225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Like, I can't think of ANYTHING to do with JS that would be even REMOTELY comparable to this :P < 1320382210 396424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possibly the least portable C program I've ever seen. < 1320382228 770974 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unless there's a bug in a Javascript implementation that allows him to prod registers manually. < 1320382231 649478 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1320382235 6896 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/jsbench-oopsla-2011.pdf < 1320382243 568894 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The least portable Javascript program! < 1320382261 755712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is the similarity just "it's for repeatability" < 1320382274 791975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because let me tell you, it is not the /idea/ that is horrifying here, it is very much the implementation :P < 1320382308 764695 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The implementation is PRETTY horrifying, but then JS is a highly-dynamic language with reflection, and ELF+x86 isn't. < 1320382334 453225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The Secret Project doesn't give a shit about ELF. I don't quite think you understand :P < 1320382337 16459 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the same basic idea of standing in between all the syscalls and rewriting them. < 1320382352 842452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's based on constructing a chroot, starting a process, and then becoming a horrific parasite of it. < 1320382357 503780 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes < 1320382378 839450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Note that you're not MEANT to be able to "intercept" syscalls :P < 1320382389 598217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just get notified when there's a syscall, pausing the process, and you happen to be able to fiddle with memory and registers. < 1320382390 465002 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptracesayswhat < 1320382400 312711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1320382408 247581 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1320382412 397691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically "interception via automated gdb" :P < 1320382432 563771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, using syscalls for scheduling is warped, whatever universe you're in :P < 1320382436 221246 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, it seems to me like that should be implementable in a way that's only /mostly/ horrible, not /entirely/ horrible. < 1320382440 227896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned it fakes a system clock? < 1320382450 34315 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please tell me this is something absurd like orthogonal persistance via ptrace. < 1320382453 821274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually manages time itself :P < 1320382462 728905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No, it's the Project Formerly Known as the Secret Project. < 1320382476 575594 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be amazing though, you must admit. < 1320382478 685681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It makes Linux (almost) deterministic. < 1320382494 224037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Deterministic if you don't have a loop that calls no syscalls in it) < 1320382527 333061 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what end? < 1320382540 823326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That was the Secret (you've seen ais523 talk about it, right?) < 1320382543 45348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out it's for TASes. < 1320382544 745651 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, to what degree does it work? < 1320382547 224058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, a long quote: < 1320382550 745867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Linked list of future timed events, maintained in sorted order. < 1320382550 798448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Any syscall that schedules something to happen at a particular < 1320382550 798622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : future time, such as nanosleep(2) (syscall return) or alarm(2) < 1320382550 798729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (signal) will add an element to this list. Time does not increase < 1320382550 798907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : while any processes are executing; once all are simultaneously < 1320382551 658133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : blocked, the first element from this list is taken and resolved. < 1320382552 554602 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah*. < 1320382553 668859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Simultaneous events cannot happen; if an event would be added to < 1320382555 751628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this list and another one already has the same time, the new event < 1320382557 653056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : is postponed one nanosecond. We only have to worry about one sort < 1320382559 654146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of clock here; REALTIME and MONOTONIC are the same as system time < 1320382561 663369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot be changed without root privs and we don't change it, < 1320382563 705668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MONOTONIC_RAW is the same as MONOTONIC as we don't allow time slew, < 1320382565 180974 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh my god. < 1320382565 657763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and we claim that all time spent executing is spent in syscalls < 1320382567 736683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (i.e. zero lag), so PROCESS_CPUTIME_ID and THREAD_CPUTIME_ID are < 1320382569 676945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : always 0. (Likewise, of the three interval timers, ITIMER_REAL is < 1320382571 718603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : based on realtime, and the other two never fire at all.) */ < 1320382592 484975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1320382606 359639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, right now I'm trying to get it to run on my system >_> < 1320382616 730143 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess for TAS being able to just fake up time is not sufficient, the goal is to have repeatable timing. < 1320382619 738037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I gather it runs NetHack, and evidently runs some SDL game well enough for that stuff to be tested. < 1320382637 533779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He was even working on getting OpenGL working. < 1320382693 178698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Here's another one for ya: < 1320382693 579834 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is a madman. < 1320382696 241035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* We can use procfs to get the current mappings, in order to avoid < 1320382696 359661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : overlapping an existing mapping. The mappings are given in < 1320382696 411780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : numerical order. The way it works is that we don't place anything < 1320382696 411941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : before the first or after the last mapping (to avoid writing on < 1320382696 412050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : system address space); and we place the mmap at the end of the < 1320382697 87050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : last gap in which it fits with addrnear == 0. If addrnear has a < 1320382698 794340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : value, we place it at addnear & PAGE_MASK if we can, or move it < 1320382700 857733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : backwards slightly so that it fits if we can, or otherwise at the < 1320382702 740462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : end of last the gap before addrnear where it fits or at the start < 1320382704 771828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of the next gap afterwards where it fits, whichever is nearer. < 1320382706 836966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : There is one other rule: Linux doesn't like an mmap getting too < 1320382708 561022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : near to the end of the stack, and shrinks the stack if that is < 1320382710 819512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : done (presumably to give a guard page for stack overflow < 1320382712 819708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : protection). As such, we keep each map at least a page away < 1320382714 840903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : from each other map. */ < 1320382716 796998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fairness, there was a blank line before "There is one other rule". < 1320382779 108217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq_: Here's the scheduling rules: http://sprunge.us/GGYX (He's already pasted that with the realtime-simulation bits censored, but that's public now, so *shrug*) < 1320382939 780881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq_: OK, ais will get mad of me if I paste too much of this, but I couldn't resist: http://sprunge.us/DTJa < 1320382958 214695 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. You can fucking TAS at syscall granularity. < 1320383039 819971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, /something/ is wrong with the simulated /proc here < 1320383206 917540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1320383222 522995 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320383242 986399 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc's reaction to the AW SDK: "ughhhh" < 1320383307 487590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're subjecting kmc to your API design? Come on, that's not fair. < 1320383310 333134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: We apologise. < 1320383377 55740 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not the one providing the AW SDK! < 1320383434 950487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think, all the person-hours going into this might produce a whole _three_ test bots before Sgeo|web gets bored and looks at another language. < 1320383481 490094 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually-written code would be a surprise, tbh < 1320383497 418303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said might. < 1320383522 700295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more likely is that you'll make a bunch of people go to the effort of trying to figure out how to bind it for absolutely nothing, but I thought you might find me saying that a little depressing. < 1320383643 997482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I would just use a global lock for this. < 1320383654 157487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you're trying to stop Sgeo from doing things like that, aren't you. < 1320383660 341503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologise. < 1320383699 326265 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I am currently explaining how to do it :) < 1320383751 790708 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION monad transformers :-( < 1320383754 843401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I meant a global global. It's not a global if you can have more than one of them. < 1320383769 575943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, this is a hideous C API, top-level mutable variable > ReaderT implementation detail. < 1320384043 658817 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was getting to the global global < 1320384053 49612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global global global. < 1320384053 304508 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you follow along in #haskell instead of bugging me here < 1320384078 505934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't face watching it directly. But I'll leave you to deal with the horror. :p < 1320386326 454658 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Quit: bye < 1320386663 499484 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1320388866 271860 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43667.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320389064 805050 :naskg!~nask@62.65.216.95.cable.starman.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320389161 902414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here used an Array in a legitimate purposeful Haskell program? < 1320389169 63447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't. But that's kind of expected. < 1320389885 718520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1320390224 93594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there be any values that have type-level natural types? < 1320390322 100285 :naskg!~nask@62.65.216.95.cable.starman.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320390334 174874 :naskg!~nask@62.65.216.95.cable.starman.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320390388 924756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just (Just (Just (Just ())))) -- this has type 4, essentially? < 1320390389 626290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)' < 1320390392 453298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1320390398 279396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just (Just (Just (Just ()))) -- this has type 4, essentially? < 1320390399 175264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe ()))) < 1320390418 696580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1320390423 750444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much Nothing < 1320390432 719528 :naskg!~nask@62.65.216.95.cable.starman.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1320390442 257033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Identity (Identity (Identity (Identity ()))) < 1320390443 107846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity (Identity (Identity (Identity ()))) < 1320390447 821957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but not in the actual implementation of type-level naturals right? < 1320390462 202152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... yes? < 1320390477 810215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "the" actual implementation? < 1320390482 642687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1320390489 982465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one? < 1320390491 743502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no clue. < 1320390519 248157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be common for pure type-level programming in haskell to use empty data types, in which case you only have undefined, which haskell cannot avoid. < 1320390567 367147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a type-level boolean would be nice. Basically it would serve the purpose of an anonymous set of two phantom types. < 1320390577 473381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Zero; data Succ a < 1320390597 813455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "type Zero" not valid? < 1320390606 533335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not valid. < 1320390615 829655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a type is a synonym. < 1320390654 881066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the above requires EmptyDataDecls extension (sp?) < 1320390862 200945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I understand what type is for, it just seems that in this context they'd be completely equivalent. < 1320390883 333461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :type must be entirely expandable at compile time < 1320391076 62429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind / = A | B x | C x y < 1320391086 471253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is your God now? < 1320391169 295210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1320391185 233849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think that kind of definition would serve any kind of purpose. < 1320391193 622744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to associate a group of types to a kind. < 1320391209 582087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-level metaprogramming? :P < 1320391249 596656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-level naturals? WHERE DOES IT END. < 1320391262 669872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are kinds all the way down < 1320391270 584394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sorts, whatever that is < 1320391349 211193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do have the feeling the above definition is a confusion of levels, though < 1320391375 225865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the way down? < 1320391392 403055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like kind / x y = (* -> x) -> * -> y i could sort of believe in < 1320391403 495745 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well... < 1320391415 826973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like a kind-level type declaration < 1320391417 778301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the mix of operator and alphanums also grates < 1320391421 817369 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more of a kind-level data declaration < 1320391431 330679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1320391435 216493 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where these types suddenly have this kind. < 1320391454 507646 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :analogous to these constructor functions having this type. < 1320391464 669960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok that may make sense. although you'd want x and y to be parameters on the left side. < 1320391473 819636 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or foralled < 1320391492 66247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1320391500 39048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :parameters in kinds are typically done via -> < 1320391517 178174 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused now. :P < 1320391528 822929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um -> _is_ a kind constructor < 1320391535 498271 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1320391550 795572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd expect what you define to be other kind constructors < 1320391565 368072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that serve the purpose of.......... < 1320391568 158707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1320391572 307458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(silence) < 1320391575 437954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1320391688 491780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have some relevance to type-level programming? < 1320391758 541908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm..... < 1320391763 802228 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really * acts as a kind of kind variable. < 1320391790 671902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really. < 1320391838 623205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your rules about operators and variables is messed up now < 1320391848 403759 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> is a kind operator but * is a kind variable. < 1320391848 490990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it acts as a kind constant. < 1320391862 792492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er, I mean, yes I understand. < 1320391887 788932 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you added more kind distinctions then * being "any kind of type" is really kind of like a type variable, except that multiple occurences of * don't refer to the same kind. < 1320391911 63217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1320391914 913746 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1320391915 945125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1320391936 140809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...enjoy your trip to the looney bin < 1320391959 323419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm outta this conversation :P < 1320391976 956269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any further and Oerjan would descend into madness. < 1320392078 574165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, further. < 1320392087 570831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :into. < 1320392103 771867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something which would require insane unicode to describe. < 1320392152 257740 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :狂 < 1320392179 39781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got this when I looked up "insane unicode" < 1320392182 627857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "insane" < 1320392255 169128 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought maybe I could maybe help you describe it maybe\) < 1320392289 352233 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERHAPS SPOKEN LANGUAGE IS LIKE TYPES < 1320392305 850084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THE ACTIONS THAT UNDERLY THE SPOKEN WORD ARE THE PORGRAMS < 1320392324 311526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I make extensive use of the maybe type < 1320392352 330311 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps being a synonym for maybe, mayhaps) < 1320392446 495881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no oerjan < 1320392448 78769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't realise < 1320392452 283179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet was trying to do haskell < 1320392453 982832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in here < 1320392455 193338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im so < 1320392456 554316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :( < 1320392468 825792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : has anyone here used an Array in a legitimate purposeful Haskell program? < 1320392471 267694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HELP ME. HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP MEEEEEEEEEE! < 1320392473 241843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Array is practically deprecated < 1320392486 27238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is "the" actual implementation? < 1320392486 585332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kind-level metaprogramming is a state-of-art field in which I'm resorching. < 1320392492 124938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the new ghc extension, perhaps? < 1320392497 819955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : even the above requires EmptyDataDecls extension (sp?) < 1320392499 461205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in haskell2010 < 1320392511 323728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kind-level metaprogramming? :P < 1320392520 153133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're getting constraint kinds, and kind polymorphism is being worked on. it is in fact very useful < 1320392662 245196 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooooool. < 1320392682 955857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>>:>:>>>:>:>>:>>:>:>>:> < 1320392896 509372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>>:>:>>>:>:>>:>>:>:>>:> < 1320392921 760227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (>>:>:>>>:>:>>:>>:>:>>:>) = id in (+2) >>:>:>>>:>:>>:>>:>:>>:> 2 < 1320392922 753389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1320393629 710479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONNNNNNNNNNNNNNS!!! < 1320393757 401886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`QUOTE < 1320393757 619362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320393762 62085 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320393763 179230 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: QUOTE: not found < 1320393764 463432 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :74) I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1320393772 942143 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320393774 203848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320393774 783018 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320393775 29138 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :46) Reality isn't a part of physics < 1320393775 303123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320393775 866633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1320393778 802642 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :257) ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing I think that would be illegal. oh you are right damn :/ < 1320393780 266886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1320393780 890072 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :462) #%%:]__t�# do you see that that is great progress taking place < 1320393802 468156 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) ZOMGMODULES, St. Christopher, saint and werewolf. < 1320393802 855698 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :79) <@Lawlabee> Why does Monday start at 10PM on Sunday? < 1320394013 257942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@Donnenfeld: Your exploit does not work against current calibre-mount-helper, since I have fixed the mounting of symlinked dirs in both /dev and /media. Closing this bug. Re-open it only if you can point to/describe an actual exploit against current calibre-mount-helper." < 1320394016 754601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy never gives up < 1320394058 121936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he is the Rick Astley of calibre-mount-helper < 1320394094 200418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you trying to troll #linux or is this something else? < 1320394112 369598 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320394207 411878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027, which you will not regret reading < 1320394324 933329 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1320394327 23374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe you. < 1320394352 481112 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1320394390 862708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's at #1 on proggit and had the active members of the channel in a state of awe for like over half of it a few hours ago < 1320394395 300880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you decide :p < 1320394403 384120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1320395798 685320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun < 1320395799 684588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => String -> a < 1320395863 926270 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun "hello" "world" < 1320395864 943629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr ([Char] -> t)) => t < 1320395875 67763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun show(fun "hello" "world") < 1320395876 164875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `String' < 1320395876 322312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `a -> String' < 1320395876 375352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `fun', namely `show' < 1320395890 55888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun (show fun "hello" "world") < 1320395891 191192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[Char] -> [Char] -> String' < 1320395891 415466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `String' < 1320395891 467706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `fun', namely `(show fun "hello" "world")' < 1320395891 589554 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1320395895 75851 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP WHAT IS PRECEDENCE. < 1320395911 969439 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun . show . fun "hello" $ "world" < 1320395912 967467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320395913 117628 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320395913 169818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:13-23 < 1320395916 407253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun . show . fun "hello" $ "world" :: Expr < 1320395917 425277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320395917 542833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320395917 595273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:13-23 < 1320395920 166532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :painful to watch, mostly < 1320395920 696248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1320395938 207372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun . show $ fun "hello" "world" :: Expr < 1320395939 480105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320395939 532650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320395939 532871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:14-32 < 1320395970 989106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet thinks that $ are literal syntactic parentheses. < 1320395973 1085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is wrong. < 1320395991 729791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm trying to use fun and fold[lr] to implement unwords < 1320395995 433292 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320396010 411347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1320396017 668456 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kind of lost now... < 1320396023 91166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1320396036 599482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr (fun . show) < 1320396037 462510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (Show b, SimpleReflect.FromExpr b, Show a) => b -> [a] -> b < 1320396046 988344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun . show (fun "hello" "world") < 1320396048 77748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[Char]' against inferred type `Char' < 1320396048 313900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [String] < 1320396048 366132 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: String < 1320396066 821215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet thinks (f . g x) = (f (g x)). < 1320396067 937755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is wrong < 1320396075 68487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun $ show (fun "hello" (var "world")) < 1320396076 3295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320396076 235230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320396076 287344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:12-36 < 1320396079 210856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun $ show (fun "hello" (var "world")) :: Expr < 1320396080 158508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320396080 392841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320396080 445642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:12-36 < 1320396098 650674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320396113 798656 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1320396114 911191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun (show (fun "hello" (var "world"))) "hello" < 1320396116 202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320396116 116925 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320396116 169322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:11-35 < 1320396118 830841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieijoiwejriojsdfoijweorijwer < 1320396181 703606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr1 (show . fun) < 1320396182 528037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1320396182 669459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `String' < 1320396182 785857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `show' < 1320396197 600369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1320396205 950897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr1 ((show .) . fun) < 1320396206 771632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320396206 889588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a' < 1320396206 942378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `fun' at :1:19-21 < 1320396210 831831 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to apply fun then show it. < 1320396217 280377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun "name" (var "value") < 1320396219 90567 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then show that. < 1320396227 640989 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use that as the var < 1320396235 371389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1320396236 702133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1320396238 52745 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually. < 1320396273 806313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320396284 394167 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it's actually a valid fold. < 1320396296 891893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = "end"; foo (x:xs) = show $ fun x (var (foo xs)) in foo ["a","b","c"] < 1320396297 726962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320396297 959948 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1320396298 12188 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1320396305 770104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = "end"; foo (x:xs) = show (fun x (var (foo xs)) :: Expr) in foo ["a","b","c"] < 1320396306 705760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "a b c end" < 1320396324 793759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = var "end"; foo (x:xs) = fun x (foo xs) in foo ["a","b","c"] :: Expr < 1320396325 685104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr' < 1320396325 802320 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ... < 1320396328 904516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = var "end"; foo (x:xs) = fun x (foo xs) in foo ["a","b","c"] < 1320396329 625603 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1320396329 747849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Sy... < 1320396334 383878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = var "end"; foo (x:xs) = fun x (foo xs) in undefined < 1320396335 269668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1320396338 765689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320396343 692218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let foo [] = var "end"; foo (x:xs) = fun x (foo xs) in foo < 1320396344 546675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr (Sym a), Show a) => [String] -> Sym a < 1320396353 532891 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fun "hello" "world" < 1320396354 566844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1320396354 802835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1320396354 855340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1320396356 284086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = var "end"; foo (x:xs) = fun x (foo xs) in show (foo ["a","b"]) < 1320396357 85055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1320396357 202536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Sy... < 1320396364 361053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-? < 1320396365 994842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1320396366 813489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1320396367 404102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun < 1320396368 176387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => String -> a < 1320396373 568672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1320396374 310029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t x < 1320396375 148438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1320396377 874299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun "hello" < 1320396378 916730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1320396379 32958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t name < 1320396379 840803 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `name' < 1320396383 559880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1320396385 363692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1320396389 141001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t expr < 1320396389 788242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something else is "var" < 1320396390 59268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr -> Expr < 1320396396 730449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320396409 816913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> SimpleReflect.var < 1320396410 720663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `SimpleReflect.var' < 1320396421 663807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is difficult :) < 1320396432 85198 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1320396433 844889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle var < 1320396434 409595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1320396435 152024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax VarE :: Name -> Exp < 1320396435 269821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320396435 385951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH VarE :: Name -> Exp < 1320396435 438338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Lib varE :: Name -> ExpQ < 1320396445 341300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS HOOGLE < 1320396449 509758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo [] = fun "test" :: Expr; foo (x:xs) = fun x (foo xs) in show (foo ["a","b"]) < 1320396450 262213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "a (b test)" < 1320396453 846345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1320396495 813624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo k [] = k $ fun "test"; foo k (x:xs) = foo (\k' -> k' x) xs in show (foo ["a","b"]) < 1320396496 640252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(t -> b) -> b' < 1320396496 752898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1320396512 63628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this isn't going to work. < 1320396516 336427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without essentially defining < 1320396528 731317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join a b = a ++ " " ++ b < 1320396531 150101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with simplereflect < 1320396538 494857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes yes I know "join" clashes there) < 1320396543 246747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1320396574 328907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t op < 1320396575 147409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n. (Newtype n o) => (o -> n) -> n -> o < 1320396582 381104 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1320396659 378239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1320396694 772559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan you can't ask a question and then leave, jerk >:( < 1320396694 888388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320396717 617519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan it's from http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/newtype/latest/doc/html/Control-Newtype.html < 1320396717 851399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1320399259 295216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320399477 876349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1320399488 64790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky hello-2.7]$ time sleep 5 < 1320399488 299891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[five second pause] < 1320399488 352706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.000s < 1320399488 352874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.000s < 1320399488 352981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.003s < 1320399498 274059 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1320399498 876917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha < 1320399519 781951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get real 0m5.014s < 1320399522 720744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't got Web of Lies to work, but this is my cheap LD_PRELOAD version of the clock hack < 1320399526 729050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash runs in it, which is a good start < 1320399533 294809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to try compiling hello to prove all the naysayers wrong < 1320399540 420766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even bothering to backdate the source files! < 1320399551 733532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky hello-2.7]$ date < 1320399551 785803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 BST 1970 < 1320399551 785933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I thought BST was over. < 1320399561 975026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1320399569 982886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wasn't BST on the epoch either < 1320399573 254095 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, such a thrill-seeker. < 1320399573 378876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320399575 729656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :living life on the edge. < 1320399581 501776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : orig_gettimeofday(NULL, tz); < 1320399581 553999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (tp) { < 1320399581 554068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tp->tv_sec = 0; < 1320399581 554112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tp->tv_usec = 0; < 1320399581 554155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1320399586 202919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should just fake the timezone too < 1320399592 813824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might have weird effects otherwise < 1320399595 961231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is why I prefer to control at the syscall level, not the library level < 1320399604 549490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, me too -- got a portable way? :P < 1320399613 318125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one < 1320399627 21448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portable Syscall Interface < 1320399630 624391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could, umm, scrape the source of strace, which is reasonably portable by special-casing a bunch of OSes and archs < 1320399633 451507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connector Protocol < 1320399637 892854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but syscalls are inherently nonportable, aren't they? < 1320399643 775826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, gnu hello is best practices? its ./configure checks whether about a hundred libc functions are macros are not < 1320399645 620617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1320399658 963733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether build environment is sane... yes < 1320399659 16491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're _very_ mistaken,a utoconf < 1320399662 351083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a / a/ < 1320399672 756662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[2]: Warning: File `Makefile' has modification time 1320399594 s in the future < 1320399675 208539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it only runs a few specific sanity checks < 1320399680 452879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[2]: warning: Clock skew detected. Your build may be incomplete. < 1320399696 716106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky hello-2.7]$ src/hello < 1320399696 832466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1320399701 894573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr it works perfectly fine, it just warns a lot < 1320399724 703755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you shout at this spambot for me? it's recommending the use of Lucinda Handwriting or Papyrus over Arial or Calibri for Christmas invitations < 1320399734 519786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no taste in fonts :( < 1320399738 554867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lucinda handwriting is a beautiful font, marred only by the fact that it doesn't exist < 1320399755 145637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't check to see if the typo was in the original, but probably < 1320399757 129048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I would _probably_ use papyrus before arial. but really, everyone loves papyrus < 1320399757 959925 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the -m flag to tar when you unpack the sources - I think that will avoid weird timestamps < 1320399758 12327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucida Console is the best font. < 1320399767 392339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, the problem is that the timestamps are in 2011 < 1320399769 213305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's 1970 < 1320399776 475480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this tarball comes from the future, is the problem < 1320399796 947373 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by weird I mean timestamps from 2011 < 1320399802 161056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1320399810 103551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -m, --touch < 1320399810 155907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : don't extract file modified time < 1320399810 886306 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :-m should set them all to the current time < 1320399815 188009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I can do it from inside the jail < 1320399816 46039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1320399825 74198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar: hello-2.7/gnulib/m4/locale-ja.m4: time stamp 2011-03-22 17:56:57 is 1300816617 s in the future < 1320399826 254517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GET IT < 1320399832 904939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES ALL GNU SOFTWARE HAVE TO TELL ME I'M IN THE PAST JEEZ < 1320399834 386162 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you are partying like it's 1970. < 1320399837 158083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--HANG hang for SECS seconds (default 3600) < 1320399860 951198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's that from? < 1320399862 682331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because systems are not designed to run with a clock jammed at the epoch < 1320399864 397265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: man tar < 1320399876 378761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine < 1320399877 11085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out what the option's for, also why it's in allcaps < 1320399885 711081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's a typo for --hang SECS < 1320399890 666891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: because systems are not designed to run with a clock jammed at the epoch < 1320399894 950579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that would make more sense, yes < 1320399895 3854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's /some/ legacy system... < 1320399902 720022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it probably has the wrong epoch < 1320399914 376327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://vimeo.com/11414505 < 1320399931 585191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you linking me this < 1320399952 356230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's always relevant. < 1320399964 391593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, thinks break more if the epoch is right < 1320399966 543482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1320399967 548002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timestamp < 1320399981 908720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION configures it, then backdates them < 1320399998 566775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, = ERROR: stat proc/pid/fd: Permission denied < 1320400007 306871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've no idea why, I've looked over the code repeatedly < 1320400016 611027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my only changes were to change your personal bind mounts into ones for my ~ < 1320400048 371862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not that error again < 1320400053 966863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1320400061 284743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's something to do with security on root-executed programs < 1320400067 954239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, selinux stuff? < 1320400081 201335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: it was "sudo ./weboflies true"; true is 64-bit, but I tried it on Web of Lies itself and it still failed, so I suspect it's a generic problem < 1320400083 980737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes just the standard protections on suid stuff < 1320400093 221864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies isn't suid :) < 1320400099 47816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but it drops permissions < 1320400099 202441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[2]: gnulib/m4/wchar_h.m4: Timestamp out of range; substituting 1970-01-01 01:00:00 < 1320400099 318259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make, you disappoint me < 1320400108 550701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, how do you fix it? < 1320400112 374972 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :webo flies < 1320400138 185335 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :flies that spread deadly timestamp-related diseases < 1320400139 883979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gregor already topped it with "web o' flies" < 1320400142 840270 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1320400152 592192 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :web o' flies is better yes < 1320400165 653782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, that was an obvious thing to do < 1320400172 926661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but did you do it? < 1320400179 159163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320400180 593949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentally < 1320400186 475913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the name was public < 1320400192 789569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor doesn't have that problem; he doesn't have a brain < 1320400215 599747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, you use clone(). wouldn't unshare() do? < 1320400220 220223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as for that bug, removing the call to drop permissions from the main process would fix it, but I don't feel comfortable running a bunch of stuff as root < 1320400229 791141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose so; this was invented before unshare became commonly available < 1320400238 608267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, how old is this program? < 1320400238 972612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see why you wouldn't use clone rather than unshare < 1320400246 684982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that old, but I have an old OS < 1320400266 238716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only very slightly postdates unshare < 1320400276 833640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's still it bit experimental in the kernel source I was reading < 1320400294 986117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, umm, how can I get the flies working without losing the permissions drop? modifying crap in /proc? < 1320400351 485238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, one of the settings there must be different < 1320400364 209930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or let me try to figure out what the offending line is and why it's failing < 1320400371 469754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know what the line is < 1320400373 642346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tracked it down myself < 1320400391 365129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct stat fdstats; < 1320400391 417615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : char procname[] = "/proc/65536/fd/4294967295"; < 1320400391 417794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : sprintf(procname, "/proc/%d/fd/%d", ptpid, < 1320400391 417903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (int32_t)ar0.ebx); /* cast for safety */ < 1320400391 418043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (stat(procname, &fdstats) < 0) { < 1320400404 469684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320400405 445126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the error means that a directory prefix of the statted filename isn't accessible, permissions-wise < 1320400414 300403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha, let me guess why < 1320400416 418407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it must be /proc/pid/fd < 1320400420 700783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the process id involved is owned by root < 1320400422 887860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because web of lies runs as root < 1320400426 158759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to start with) < 1320400431 556571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, I think it's because it was previously owned by root < 1320400434 421483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, much the right idea < 1320400435 24940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an unprivileged user can't look at it < 1320400436 279652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320400444 184151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you can't drop privileges before cloning? < 1320400446 433507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that happened to me too, and I thought I fixed it < 1320400455 271683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before the first clone call, which creates fakeinit < 1320400465 430256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because root perms are needed to do things like unshare mount namespaces < 1320400500 76837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it drops perms before forking the actual program under test < 1320400519 143557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: idea: does your system have a user numbered 65534? < 1320400527 943554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be that the user it drops permissions /to/ doesn't exist < 1320400540 31100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash < 1320400540 145067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin:x:1:1:bin:/bin:/bin/false < 1320400540 197877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :daemon:x:2:2:daemon:/sbin:/bin/false < 1320400540 198090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mail:x:8:12:mail:/var/spool/mail:/bin/false < 1320400540 198198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp:x:14:11:ftp:/srv/ftp:/bin/false < 1320400540 549440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http:x:33:33:http:/srv/http:/bin/false < 1320400542 651072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody:x:99:99:nobody:/:/bin/false < 1320400544 530237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbus:x:81:81:System message bus:/:/bin/false < 1320400546 538230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:x:1000:100:Elliott Hird,,,:/home/elliott:/bin/bash < 1320400548 581711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :avahi:x:84:84:avahi:/:/bin/false < 1320400550 606678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :usbmux:x:140:140:usbmux user:/:/sbin/nologin < 1320400552 556977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but your code comments implied to me that it shouldn't matter < 1320400554 945312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I been lied to :-( < 1320400560 531010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it should < 1320400560 583962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the entire contents of my /etc/apsswd, btw; surprisingly short) < 1320400564 531190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely certain < 1320400579 30120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try setting WOLUSER_UID and WOLUSER_GID both to 99 < 1320400579 384654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: want me to create one? < 1320400581 573268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1320400581 802862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if it works then < 1320400594 209023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it's probably not that < 1320400619 59443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/etc/passwd inside the chroot makes that user exist; but ofc the system as a whole wouldn't care about that version of /etc/passwd, I just don't get why it would care at all) < 1320400620 771874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't fix the problem < 1320400632 977095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether to say "good" or "bad" < 1320400638 651328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my reaction, too < 1320400641 715822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to find the problem, but I'm glad that doesn't fix it < 1320400650 36408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320400659 737170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could run weboflies under gd... what am I saying, of course I can't < 1320400669 864287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try, it's hilarious < 1320400675 488702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, probably a bad idea < 1320400698 482081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo gdb ./weboflies < 1320400698 595966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo: gdb: command not found < 1320400708 678216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new machines always surprise me for at least two months after I set them up < 1320400712 134816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a regular basis < 1320400717 896762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, how have I not realised I don't have gdb before now? < 1320400725 944149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you run it as a regular user? < 1320400737 88673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I just haven't installed gdb yet! < 1320400757 391267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second clone is definitely after dropping perms < 1320400787 922912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be worth looking at the perms in question yourself; stick a getchar() or something in just after the error message so that the processes stick around long enough to look at them < 1320400805 7223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := ERROR: ptrace trace self: Operation not permitted < 1320400805 126627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--gdb < 1320400811 24112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it dumps me at the web of lies console < 1320400814 377303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time i've seen it, actually :) < 1320400817 708022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems about right < 1320400833 662511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it might be worth looking at the perms in question yourself; stick a getchar() or something in just after the error message so that the processes stick around long enough to look at them < 1320400834 129804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1320400840 914687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can I printf at that point in the code? < 1320400844 814275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be useful to see the pid < 1320400845 81231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be fine < 1320400850 561728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could just ps, but < 1320400854 906190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be better to fprintf to stderr < 1320400856 903730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aaugh, I can't escape the gdb :) < 1320400866 596175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try double-tapping control-C < 1320400874 703544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that fails, try control-\ < 1320400940 713286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1320400940 931089 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320400943 877658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1320400949 862555 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i killed the gdb'd weboflies < 1320400958 814959 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and got a kernel panic for trying to kill init... < 1320400959 179037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, you didn't use sigkill, did you? < 1320400971 135270 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I literally just "sudo killall gdb" < 1320400979 417388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1320400980 215719 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... how is that even possible? it's not even the /real/ pid 1! < 1320401005 278332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is weboflies! < 1320401009 982323 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1320401027 366605 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so... < 1320401029 384314 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where were we? :P < 1320401031 983190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that a kill -9 on weboflies itself is nearly always a bad idea) < 1320401047 562312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: adding a printf and getchar statement to the /proc/pid/fd check in icotl < 1320401050 218268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ioctl < 1320401054 776395 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1320401130 978835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo ./weboflies true < 1320401131 151127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1320401131 219159 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric := ERROR: stat proc/pid/fd: Permission denied < 1320401131 271586 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/proc/783/fd/4 < 1320401134 286441 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 780 pts/0 00:00:00 sudo < 1320401134 413722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 781 pts/0 00:00:00 weboflies < 1320401134 466651 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 782 pts/1 00:00:00 weboflies < 1320401135 785400 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 783 pts/1 00:00:00 weboflies < 1320401146 780067 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -l /proc | grep 783 < 1320401146 911117 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 65534 65534 0 Nov 4 10:04 783 < 1320401164 676439 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -l /proc/783/fd < 1320401164 807026 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot open directory /proc/783/fd: Permission denied < 1320401169 272553 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/783/fd < 1320401169 398914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root root 0 Nov 4 10:04 /proc/783/fd < 1320401178 700472 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, the permissions on the process itself change properly, but not the fds < 1320401181 959517 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep grouping that as "webo-flies". < 1320401183 683600 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this some effective/real uid problem? < 1320401190 331203 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, like olsner. < 1320401200 673906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: all four UIDs are set to the same value, so I don't think so < 1320401217 212178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using setresuid < 1320401217 998297 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the order could matter, for changing the permissions on /proc < 1320401224 29707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you check the ownership on 781 and 783? < 1320401240 788755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the order is "simultaneously", because I'm using setresuid < 1320401253 934516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is designed for avoiding race conditions in changing UIDs simultaneously < 1320401255 215154 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/781{,/fd} < 1320401255 389832 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 65534 65534 0 Nov 4 10:04 /proc/781 < 1320401255 455792 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root root 0 Nov 4 10:04 /proc/781/fd < 1320401255 508402 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/782{,/fd} < 1320401255 508591 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 65534 65534 0 Nov 4 10:04 /proc/782 < 1320401255 969058 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root root 0 Nov 4 10:04 /proc/782/fd < 1320401284 758334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps your kernel just doesn't like looking at even your own fds? < 1320401294 417917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :check an ordinary elliott-owned process, like your shell or something < 1320401299 254859 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls /proc/self/fd < 1320401299 422718 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 2 3 < 1320401307 605068 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/self{,/fd} < 1320401307 738615 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 64 Nov 4 10:00 /proc/self -> 834 < 1320401307 791281 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov 4 10:07 /proc/self/fd < 1320401312 999452 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, how is that the other way around? < 1320401318 119538 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, /proc/self is a symlnik < 1320401319 557466 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlink < 1320401322 220808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320401328 642899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and symlinks don't have useful perms < 1320401330 960884 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ldH /proc/self{,/fd} < 1320401331 156786 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 elliott users 0 Nov 4 10:08 /proc/self < 1320401331 209410 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov 4 10:08 /proc/self/fd < 1320401336 800276 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of the owner < 1320401337 402675 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is undecided whether to remove Calibre from his Windows system out of .. protest? < 1320401347 955524 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that wouldn't actually do anything other than inconvience me < 1320401352 840934 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: how about out of: "I don't want to get my system compromised" < 1320401364 584882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that wouldn't/I'm foolish enough to believe that wouldn't/ < 1320401368 781693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how is a suid executable a security hole on Windows? < 1320401377 730469 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you trust that guy to write /any/ software? < 1320401384 852233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I see what you mean < 1320401390 834781 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure Sgeo|web's user has quite sufficient permissions to destroy lots of files he cares about < 1320401427 152478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the calibre bugs struck me as being from someone who didn't realise the possibility of malicious input < 1320401439 580279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is typically reasonably safe on a single-user system that doesn't expose network access < 1320401464 468716 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person is assuming single-user < 1320401466 333042 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he just thinks that it's not serious, because he can't conceptualise a root hole as serious on a desktop machine < 1320401486 365277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he thinks people are just bullying him for no reason, and won't remove features because of it < 1320401491 413563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well of course it can be (in case someone gets in from outside) < 1320401495 668609 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make it any less of a worrying attitude, ofc < 1320401496 848810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not as serious as on a multi-user system < 1320401553 413356 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, chmod works in /proc < 1320401559 587133 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1320401560 628264 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chown < 1320401565 621670 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it just either fails because of not having permissions, or silently fails < 1320401575 229959 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking weboflies could chown its /proc/blah/fd before dropping perms :) < 1320401576 528543 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the most recent things on the bug report? Someone stated that the exploit still works, and Kovid seems to be assuming it doesn't work just because his directory structure is different or something < 1320401587 387550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of weird things end up silently failing on /proc, due to not being implemented for procfs < 1320401592 710787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: try sudo -u god < 1320401594 167188 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I don't really care what he thinks, because he's been wrong about fifty times so far < 1320401600 461555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh wait that's not actually a thing? shit... < 1320401603 773320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot. < 1320401609 775160 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm saying this is probably the 51st < 1320401644 624400 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=651183 ;; wow, not even the FUSE people can write a safe suid binary < 1320401694 262096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only safe suid binary is the unlinked suid binary. < 1320401694 585042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1320401709 382637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Old saying of the jungle.) < 1320401717 77515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm glad you've restricted /dev to block devices only. Standby and I will update the exploit for this latest fix of yours." < 1320401717 871860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the unliked/a dead/ < 1320401721 809066 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Don't say that -- I gotta write one. :/ < 1320401737 911936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would happen if you did chmod u+s true? < 1320401739 714579 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully it should just set UID + chroot. < 1320401755 306296 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exploits would become ten times more fun < 1320401763 467055 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, distros should do that, it would be entertaining < 1320401770 75814 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just setuid a bunch of really innocuous binaries < 1320401774 851349 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I misunderstood what was said, n/m my comment about Kovid's thoughts < 1320401779 113451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if true had exploits < 1320401779 562668 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you find a hole in gnu echo? I wouldn't be surprised < 1320401781 688540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the GNU version < 1320401789 508683 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses their internationalisation stuff < 1320401794 285046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1320401795 252354 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could amount to quite a lot of code < 1320401796 271679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1320401798 402203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file `which true` < 1320401800 204221 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the help text, I think < 1320401801 376861 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/true: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped < 1320401808 224238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: "true --help" doesn't print anything < 1320401816 716200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is in keeping with the way true generally behaves < 1320401817 403449 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not gnu true < 1320401820 557476 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /bin/true --help < 1320401820 710241 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: /bin/true [ignored command line arguments] < 1320401820 762980 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : or: /bin/true OPTION < 1320401820 763135 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit with a status code indicating success. < 1320401822 163346 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bash true < 1320401823 496197 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run true --help < 1320401825 307597 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1320401826 195333 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ /bin/true --help < 1320401826 329857 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: /bin/true [ignored command line arguments] < 1320401826 382544 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or: /bin/true OPTION < 1320401826 382721 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit with a status code indicating success. < 1320401826 382828 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : --help display this help and exit < 1320401826 949593 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : --version output version information and exit < 1320401827 298502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320401828 702121 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: your shell may have its own version of true, which usually supersedes < 1320401828 754427 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1320401830 705002 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version described here. Please refer to your shell's documentation < 1320401832 705875 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for details about the options it supports. < 1320401834 709799 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Report true bugs to bug-coreutils@gnu.org < 1320401836 715410 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU coreutils home page: < 1320401838 73882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : what would happen if you did chmod u+s true? <-- well, true is not written to run as suid, so there might be security holes. My guess however is that for true it wouldn't actually do much. Not a lot you can do with that tool < 1320401838 716715 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :General help using GNU software: < 1320401840 721471 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For complete documentation, run: info coreutils 'true invocation' < 1320401842 723544 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to flood that because I couldn't believe how long it was < 1320401845 39818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just found it < 1320401860 734180 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: "long", it doesn't even include a GPL copy. < 1320401864 955565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :true... bugs? < 1320401879 24863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"true isn't being true!" "okay... now it is" < 1320401881 785548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c < 1320401882 706232 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't there been updates to true or something? < 1320401882 966838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the info page mentions that doing something like "./true --version >&-" causes it to return false < 1320401892 476616 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : setlocale (LC_ALL, ""); < 1320401892 609727 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bindtextdomain (PACKAGE, LOCALEDIR); < 1320401892 662097 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : textdomain (PACKAGE); < 1320401897 677179 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juicy exploit vectors < 1320401901 327231 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : version_etc (stdout, PROGRAM_NAME, PACKAGE_NAME, Version, AUTHORS, < 1320401901 459575 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (char *) NULL); < 1320401901 511996 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this too < 1320401938 239307 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any ideas wrt weboflies? < 1320401957 737146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh. true should literally be int main(void) { return 0; } < 1320401960 521388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really; on my system I can't read fakeinits fd's, but I can read those of the program under test < 1320401966 281672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe EXIT_SUCCESS < 1320401968 16378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1320401971 313184 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In this instance, the names of the object files would be chosen by automake; they would be false-true.o and true-true.o." --automake manual < 1320401976 858274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They use the same code to generate both true and false. < 1320401986 188303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1320401998 483268 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if EXIT_STATUS == EXIT_SUCCESS < 1320401998 535873 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define PROGRAM_NAME "true" < 1320401998 536033 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1320401998 536139 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define PROGRAM_NAME "false" < 1320401998 536243 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1320402009 818956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: one of C-INTERCAL's temporary files is called oil-oil.c for this reason < 1320402013 948187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1320402029 965887 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EXIT_STATUS defaults to EXIT_SUCCESS; false.c just #defines that and #include "true.c".) < 1320402048 760625 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, what's with true-false.o and oil-oil.c? < 1320402063 494851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (C) 1999-2003, 2005, 2007-2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. < 1320402072 950396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1320402076 124179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: to allow for multiple files being generated from the same source file < 1320402114 859805 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2004 and 2006 would have been prime years to steal rights to that code, apparently. < 1320402131 621018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, .Po means dependencies, .po means internationalisation code < 1320402144 596376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: those are years in which is wasn't changed, I guess < 1320402150 712981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more worried about all the years in which it was < 1320402154 224924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1320402156 406649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :scares me too < 1320402286 298952 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if I... disabled file permissions checks? < 1320402295 233226 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..3, 5, 7..11] < 1320402296 268389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1320402296 504479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that? < 1320402303 620936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ that should be a thing < 1320402321 801177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (1..3, 5, 7..11) < 1320402333 255401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow < 1320402334 710684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot is apparently perlless for some reason. < 1320402337 271543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :try `runperl < 1320402339 580792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1320402340 76326 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1320402340 460316 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027/comments/33 is this a joke or is a person who knows how to compile C code really this stupid? < 1320402344 573206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which elliott totally forgot to delete (shhhh don't tell him) < 1320402347 668496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1320402348 20717 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1320402356 711777 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print 1 < 1320402358 727820 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1320402358 780547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, why is perl in the eso list? < 1320402366 608901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print (1..3, 5, 7..11) < 1320402368 686315 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12357891011 < 1320402390 730408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, obviously a reference to the Perl article on the wiki < 1320402392 975834 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concat [enumFromTo 1 3, [5], enumFromTo 7 11] < 1320402394 9131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,5,7,8,9,10,11] < 1320402395 599201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In 2009 they made it only call the local stuff when argc == 2; in 2008 they switched VERSION to Version (changed ~every app) and marked the description strings with N_ for translation; in 2007 they used a new emit_bug_reporting_address () helper instead of doing it manually, and changed GNU_PACKAGE to PACKAGE_NAME; in 2003 they changed the format of the AUTHORS macro. < 1320402403 662629 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: gross < 1320402416 442901 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm not an elegant Haskell writer < 1320402417 411990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So it's mostly changes in the boilerplate that touch every app in there. < 1320402426 654989 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/local/locale/ < 1320402429 384772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense < 1320402454 958259 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concat [[1..3], [5], [7..11]] < 1320402455 164177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t enumFromTo < 1320402455 787751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,5,7,8,9,10,11] < 1320402456 360412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> a -> [a] < 1320402460 89890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320402472 573308 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ais523: in 2003, they fixed a minor bug in which the value "true" was expected to return was mistakenly calculated as 4 < 1320402483 859378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"minor" bug? < 1320402489 365064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :returning true is the entire point of true < 1320402492 832693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 is a false value < 1320402497 4132 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's only four off. < 1320402499 233272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in UNIX return codes < 1320402503 809438 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Linky? < 1320402521 781535 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: is this a joke or is a person who knows how to compile C code really this stupid? < 1320402526 95194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how did that bug ever slip past them? After all it wouldn't actually have worked at all < 1320402535 276658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1320402559 164801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't know, it hits the law of trolling and incompetence being indistinguishable past a certain point < 1320402569 202474 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now under the impression that elliott_ was joking < 1320402572 414917 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the designers of true clearly followed the famous maxim to the highest degree: "A good value for k would be around 2, e.g., k = 1.9." < 1320402597 614268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this maxim work regardless of what k means? < 1320402635 24236 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it didn't make any sense in context either, so I have to assume so < 1320402656 320960 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, they needed to add about four words to the paper :) < 1320402670 609557 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose "would be around 2, e.g., k = 2." was deemed too obvious < 1320402710 763691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, which paper is that from? < 1320402716 977071 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the Nix ones < 1320402719 771458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320402754 638446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, the top proggit comment on calibre is pretty interesting, it's about how the calibre dev doesn't seem to understand that he can depend on things that aren't installed in a distro by default < 1320402762 743368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the whole point of a distro is resolving dependencies < 1320402773 13102 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that's stupid; it's fairly obvious what he meant < 1320402778 516433 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't want to depend on /more/ things" < 1320402788 996067 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"installed by default on Gentoo" is being used to mean roughly "once you install a desktop" < 1320402793 228509 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case things like gtk will be there < 1320402794 902822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMLfuck would simply be an implementation of brainfuck using XML, allowing simple universal transport of brainfuck programs, without the need for complex encodings, as well as allowing it to be processed with a single XSLT to pretty-print or even execute the program. < 1320402798 905006 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1320402801 884663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like pmount won't be, because gentoo doesn't dot his whole "infrastructure" thing :p < 1320402813 877075 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's a very stupid point, but it's not quite as stupid as "I don't understand dependencies" < 1320402822 44253 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: especially since his whole argument is that this is from the binary tarball version < 1320402826 403324 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the distro packages replace them < 1320402831 254081 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so dependencies /aren't/ being handled < 1320402833 600242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't brainfuck itself allow simple universal transport of brainfuck programs? :P < 1320402845 126358 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the fact that he ships binaries of all his /other/ dependencies doesn't seem to have occured to him < 1320402851 776992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: aha < 1320402859 283229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"binary tarball version" < 1320402864 582089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've found TRWTF there < 1320402874 735711 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not to say it isn't in the source distro too < 1320402877 849697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shipping binaries should be the distro's responsibility, if it's done at all? < 1320402883 213773 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he claims it only /matters/ for that because debian et al. replace it < 1320402894 212587 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's good for Linux From Scratch people... except they'd presumably use the source version < 1320402899 273505 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, I think he might not view pmount or whatever as a solution because he thinks people are complaining that he's not competent enough to write suid stuff < 1320402900 441539 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e155.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320402913 593785 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: after all, he said he ~couldn't be trusted to modify pmount~ after someone suggested he use it < 1320402913 907200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, he isn't < 1320402916 272103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he isn't < 1320402917 685951 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course not < 1320402918 368791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1320402929 207054 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that, why would that stop people complaining, from that warped point of view? < 1320402939 282202 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would he need to modify pmount? < 1320402939 397094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think pmount would need modification, it was being suggested for that reason < 1320402942 263142 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, he thinks they're complaining that he's shipping a suid binary and is untrustworthy < 1320402955 6968 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that suid binary being pmount wouldn't change that fact < 1320402960 479710 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: ais523: exactly, it wouldn't < 1320402971 878963 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it only makes sense if you figure out what his actual motivations behind saying that are < 1320402981 561232 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...unless he really just has no idea how he would replace it with pmount :) < 1320402984 832424 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is perfectly possible too < 1320402994 64526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I mentioned pmount is supposedly deprecated? layers!! so many layers!! < 1320403003 245597 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to tell him that it's not whether he's malicious or not that's in question? < 1320403021 856426 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to talk to him? be my guest < 1320403028 8035 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find the experience unpleasant < 1320403125 133 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not comfortable saying "You wouldn't need to modify pmount" since I don't in fact know anything whatsoever about pmount or his use case < 1320403133 275134 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think I'll stay quiet < 1320403424 806903 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's a wierd mixture of types in that struct, I mean long and uint32, one of them has a fuzzy size (4 or 8 bytes, depending on the compiler), the other is clearly defined. Generally, I never ever use "long" as a type." < 1320403436 343462 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrifying < 1320403519 470307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what? < 1320403539 218363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :long and uint32_t have different purposes, right? < 1320403548 27458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is that from the suid fiasco thread? < 1320403551 691445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"long" just means "I need this to be at least 32 bits" < 1320403553 870625 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1320403561 631326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, then from where? < 1320403571 571174 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context: this is somebody commenting on the virtualdub blog, so the context is both "gritty" hand-optimised C, and Windows < 1320403584 474190 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what I am learning: I am terrified of people who actually write C < 1320403585 577748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1320403588 928247 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to being good C programmers) < 1320403599 302265 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... they avoid long... because it has a "fuzzy" size... < 1320403599 687001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if you aren't constantly terrified of C, you're doing things wrong < 1320403600 7674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there good C programmers? < 1320403602 111462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing things wrong < 1320403606 975802 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... < 1320403610 742867 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have a /concept/ of portability? < 1320403621 192964 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I am < 1320403628 391327 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why do you think I avoid writing it? < 1320403630 943270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've tried to teach people C < 1320403641 507282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the concept of portability in C is painful enough that most people ignore it when writing anything more advanced than a "hell world" < 1320403643 99924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello* < 1320403646 895189 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell world < 1320403650 288877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, exactly < 1320403663 240592 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap runs on, like, at least three platforms. < 1320403666 275118 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it even runs on IRIX> < 1320403668 891858 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or HP-UX! < 1320403683 677964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sunos with NEWS? < 1320403688 863224 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1320403690 882645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1320403733 110225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I typically care about portability in C < 1320403737 634638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on the Secret Project < 1320403744 501175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even a comment on the #define _GNU_SOURCE < 1320403755 488363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which shows clearly that I was thinking "hell, this is unportable enough anyway, may as well go all the way" < 1320403763 170072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, classical MacOS? NeXTSTEP? < 1320403767 469894 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lxfxb/use_haskell_instead_of_c_or_fortran_for_high/ <-- challenge: find a good comment here < 1320403780 6999 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalised challenge: find a good comment on anything (a) to do with haskell, (b) in /r/programming < 1320403780 788865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge accepted < 1320403781 640165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, portability to other POSIX or to all C platforms < 1320403823 817131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it isn't really painful to be portable to other POSIX. < 1320403847 437887 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to be portable to posix + windows < 1320403868 266362 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But is "long" closer to "int_least32_t" or "int_fast32_t"? I would guess the latter, since the former is explicitly defined so that there can be no smaller types at least 32 bits wide, while the latter is just very vaguely "fast". < 1320403870 811035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: normally I decide what level of portability I want based on what I'm doing < 1320403872 539527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as long as you use a toolkit for your GUI needs that support both yes < 1320403879 734813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah every program has a gui < 1320403890 558669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well if one exists obviously < 1320403897 351032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and most programs on windows have GUIs < 1320403901 760679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm doing something that can reasonably be written in portable C89/C99, I do < 1320403904 105221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now throw in classical MacOS in that. Have fun. < 1320403914 630165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but often I'm not < 1320403949 641464 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I have an idea for an increasing clock that wouldn't be prone to scheduler issues < 1320403954 678160 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: found a good comment: "C is simple until you try to do anything nontrivial in it." < 1320403956 136794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1320403956 713481 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use thread-local storage for the counter? :) < 1320403987 358154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably will work if make split the job between threads in a deterministic way I guess? < 1320403996 336275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :jobs* < 1320404004 242694 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares if it doesn't? i doubt it checks for anything other than clock going backwards < 1320404017 482528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure -j uses fork() btw < 1320404023 189270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1320404024 338266 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" imperative programs correspond to certain forms of adversarial games." < 1320404033 84899 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is curious about that < 1320404105 35678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: oh dear < 1320404116 924009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that terminology, and think it's rather misleading < 1320404135 909534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, "adversarial" means "has more than one player", not "players are trying to prevent each other winning" < 1320404136 513060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: this might be a good comment: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lxfxb/use_haskell_instead_of_c_or_fortran_for_high/c2wzf5b < 1320404190 460871 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's a totally offtopic flamewar :p < 1320404211 259953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: YOUR CRITERIA SAID TO FIND A GOOD TOPIC THERE < 1320404218 760701 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHALLENGE ACCEPTED AND WON. < 1320404225 92879 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/lxfxb/use_haskell_instead_of_c_or_fortran_for_high/c2wehnw is there a good response to this? < 1320404240 968275 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: software hate of the day: gnu make has no way to turn off clock skew warnings. like, at all. < 1320404261 344051 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they obviously anticipate someone trying to hack time. < 1320404266 771230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+didn't < 1320404267 733581 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/however/, I think I can avoid it < 1320404285 221825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is because they serve a purpose. If there is clock skew things are likely to break < 1320404306 655749 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, keep whining all you want, but I ran bash under that jail and absolutely everything works fine < 1320404316 220986 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure doesn't complain at all < 1320404317 467316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway I spotted an issue with the TLS solution. < 1320404320 683096 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a command line utility in which every line of code has an attached option that conditionally turns it off. < 1320404322 784344 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make works fine and just prints a few stupid warnings < 1320404328 540 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash works perfectly < 1320404378 533570 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to see if the fine people in #make will help me figure out how to make make work with files made before make was made < 1320404380 671202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what if job a builds foo.c from foo.y, then another job ends up building foo.o from foo.c later on. Will foo.o always have a newer timestamp toan foo.c? < 1320404392 363756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :than* < 1320404408 139932 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it will have the same timestamp. other things that can cause this: foo.o being built in the same second as foo.c. < 1320404412 145892 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly unlikely. computers are fast. < 1320404429 736806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also supply a string argument to the option substitutes that line of code with the given code. so then when someone reports a bug I can just say, "Oh, you're just using the full capabilities of the command line options. see the man page." < 1320404430 807557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm I thought there were sub-second timestamps these days, oh well < 1320404440 36963 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gnu make relies on a system with sub-second timestamps? < 1320404444 181008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Access: 2011-11-03 13:45:55.172384014 +0100 < 1320404444 339694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modify: 2011-11-03 13:45:47.960263808 +0100 < 1320404444 392330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change: 2011-11-03 13:45:47.964263870 +0100 < 1320404444 821497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+not < 1320404446 116035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, nope < 1320404453 932355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurts for some reason. < 1320404460 383441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1320404470 939941 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* FAT filesystems round time to the nearest even second! < 1320404471 73972 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Allow for any file (NTFS or FAT) to perhaps suffer from this < 1320404471 141976 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : brain damage. */ < 1320404478 945135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320404495 243904 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : file->low_resolution_time = 1; < 1320404495 412930 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH COME ON, just assume everything is low-resolution < 1320404502 522275 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320404504 931362 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I used -B? < 1320404514 999971 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need any update logic to be done < 1320404533 594017 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 2-second resolution, which seems unusually low < 1320404546 326596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I remember that causing an infinite loop with that once < 1320404569 710323 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's fat for you < 1320404576 743917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway if same-second is okay then unpacking source @0 and building @1 should work okay, no? < 1320404585 963385 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I meant that assuming that in all cases might not be entirely sane < 1320404591 586096 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but 1 is an ugly timestamp < 1320404598 598255 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah but it would help here :-( < 1320404603 567728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, *shrug* < 1320404612 753795 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and make sets timestamps <1970 to the epoch < 1320404616 150379 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks < 1320404620 358178 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll patch make < 1320404623 107150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shr* < 1320404624 554591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug* < 1320404643 665667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Feather < 1320404659 286896 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Feather < 1320404669 276118 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n) is slowwwwwww < 1320404672 114591 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-09-07.txt:20:36:00: I mean, Feather makes me go "wow" < 1320404677 894940 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-13.txt:19:53:53: ais523: Feather revision control system: every change is applied retroactively, so there are no changes to track. Problem solved! < 1320404685 746863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't see the issue with @1 not being all zeros. Only someone with some weird sort of OCD or something would have an issue with that... < 1320404697 297983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Feather < 1320404702 192547 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-30.txt:07:07:32: Feather and @ are fundamentally incompatible, as far as I can tell < 1320404705 168349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Feather < 1320404707 142712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, doesn't it work in /msg? < 1320404710 211107 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-07.txt:15:50:42: hmm... Feather's the only language I know in which you have to worry about portability within a program < 1320404712 690056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this spam is annoying < 1320404758 777866 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Seems that they wanted to squeeze the timestamp into two bytes, and sadly 86400 > 65536. < 1320404758 970458 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's four lines, hardly spam < 1320404768 670451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :8! < 1320404770 914494 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the epoch is a far nicer timestamp than @1 < 1320404775 658518 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing it later will require a rebuild of all packagse < 1320404779 365486 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patching make is the nicset solution < 1320404784 587423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ... OCD < 1320404796 451134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: paranoid schizophrenia < 1320404801 133280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1320404819 388650 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, this is the "assign mental illnesses based on how people waste time on their computers" game, right? < 1320404838 755061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1320404847 88328 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They could have made it have 2-second granularity before noon and 1-second after < 1320404861 152547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320404881 628079 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Indeed, that would make the most sense ever in the history of things that make sense. < 1320404908 263443 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (! (s <= FILE_TIMESTAMP_S (ORDINARY_MTIME_MAX) < 1320404908 435996 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : && product <= ts && ts <= ORDINARY_MTIME_MAX)) < 1320404908 488224 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1320404908 488292 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : char buf[FILE_TIMESTAMP_PRINT_LEN_BOUND + 1]; < 1320404908 488336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ts = s <= OLD_MTIME ? ORDINARY_MTIME_MIN : ORDINARY_MTIME_MAX; < 1320404909 23108 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : file_timestamp_sprintf (buf, ts); < 1320404910 765773 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : error (NILF, _("%s: Timestamp out of range; substituting %s"), < 1320404912 769034 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fname ? fname : _("Current time"), buf); < 1320404914 771076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1320404916 773821 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1320404918 549743 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Time goes slower before lunch. < 1320404986 111300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./make.h:#define FILE_TIMESTAMP uintmax_t < 1320404989 902833 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come /on/ < 1320404994 104154 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard can it be to handle 1969? < 1320405025 929952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320405068 649952 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me not to mail the gmake lists about this as a bug < 1320405078 586251 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi, i have some files on a legacy system. ..." < 1320405091 702335 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think touch(1) should require root perms < 1320405098 448223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why < 1320405100 459163 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to stop people accidentally touching a really ancient file < 1320405103 586694 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those bits are precious < 1320405108 933374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1320405116 186220 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you imagine like < 1320405127 987573 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last unmodified file from the original unix development < 1320405130 435094 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timestamp in the 70s < 1320405142 710366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone accidentally opens it in their editor < 1320405145 803467 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which saves it automatically < 1320405156 189157 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck! you just destroyed history! way to go. hope that autosave was WORTH it, jackass. < 1320405156 242097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the editor do that < 1320405167 554282 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why do computers do half the things they do. < 1320405175 734101 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATLAB epoch (though it splits dates and times, and counts days from the epoch in the 'datenum') is 1-Jan-0000. < 1320405183 400479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, for the same reason as they do the other half < 1320405198 404746 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right. because someone fucked up. < 1320405209 701216 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what do matlab archaeologists do < 1320405234 827944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I was about to say "because that is what that specific pattern of electrical signals input to the device in question will cause the transistors in it to behave" but sure, your answer works too < 1320405252 763277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. electricity is god's fuck-up < 1320405263 622277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, god's fuck-up is the whole universe. < 1320405265 556682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320405270 588792 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: All the numbers are doubles, so you can count up to around -2^53 days backwards too. < 1320405276 230729 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one big fucking fuck-up. < 1320405281 917625 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh < 1320405293 803955 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if the conversion functions handle that, though. < 1320405298 593872 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It even simulates time getting wobblier the further you get to the big bang! < 1320405304 526529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320405304 742927 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it's a feature. < 1320405314 766071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but why does it do that for the future too? < 1320405328 423573 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maaan, you haven't heard about the bad news? < 1320405331 643846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> datestr(-1, 'yyyy-mm-dd') < 1320405331 775144 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans = < 1320405331 827959 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9999-12-30 < 1320405332 33160 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody tell him guys. < 1320405333 781987 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so sad. < 1320405334 166373 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh." < 1320405339 9013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, heh < 1320405346 120062 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the 'yyyy' format doesn't quite work for that. < 1320405356 267031 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PARSE_FILE_SEQ(_s,_t,_c,_p,_f) \ < 1320405356 373560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (_t *)parse_file_seq ((_s),sizeof (_t),(_c),(_p),(_f)) < 1320405356 426235 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, GNU, why. < 1320405372 533057 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not < 1320405377 52660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, strange macro indeed < 1320405387 955250 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: At least put the type parameter /before/ the value! < 1320405408 290374 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it makes sense < 1320405413 778230 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe YOU make sense. < 1320405548 74313 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can Solaris make handle timestamps from 1969 < 1320405561 66548 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1320405566 261802 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If yes, I'm gonna build Kitten on top of Solaris < 1320405576 44615 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch_%28reference_date%29#Notable_epoch_dates_in_computing <- that's a lot of epochs. (Also MATLAB is winning.) < 1320405596 910843 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Give me a one-liner that checks < 1320405621 400052 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: echo 'bar: foo ; echo yay' >Makefile; touch -d @-1 foo; make bar < 1320405627 791452 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(May require better touch(1) than Solaris has to offer) < 1320405650 9657 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch: bad time specification < 1320405669 757579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does it have a "gtouch"?-) < 1320405674 123879 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: touch 31-12-1969T23:59:59Z or something. < 1320405678 55337 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1320405678 863498 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d that < 1320405701 296659 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nope :-P < 1320405711 483246 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch: bad time specification < 1320405720 452124 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: touch [-acm] [-r ref_file] file... < 1320405720 505556 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : touch [-acm] [-t [[CC]YY]MMDDhhmm[.SS]] file... < 1320405720 505744 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : touch [-acm] [-d YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:SS[.frac][Z]] file... < 1320405720 505921 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : touch [-acm] [-d YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:SS[,frac][Z]] file... < 1320405720 506029 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : touch [-acm] [MMDDhhmm[yy]] file... < 1320405746 233523 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm sure you can write something in that format < 1320405746 792303 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :% echo 'bar: foo ; echo yay' >Makefile; touch -d 1969-12-31T23:59:59Z foo; make bar < 1320405749 880973 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo yay < 1320405752 434186 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1320405758 168016 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No warnings? Sweet < 1320405759 151668 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Your date string was wrong-endian < 1320405765 465307 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1320405780 7896 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't notice until after I pasted the usage) < 1320405780 589156 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That Cocoa epoch worries me. < 1320405790 856262 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking the time part into account too, it was nicely middle-endian. < 1320405853 354126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fun fact: A /lot/ of stuff requires gmake to build. < 1320405862 299306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that when using freebsd < 1320405870 423536 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's all talk about how Vorpal is actually seriously taking me serious. < 1320405883 909755 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes Vorpal, I am basing Kitten on OpenSolaris because it lets me use a certain timestamp without warnings and without a clever hack. < 1320405885 359204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no I'm not thinking you will use solaris < 1320405893 76742 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Kitten < 1320405902 18975 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Good < 1320405902 479046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but I did think you might end up using a bsd make or other non-gnu make < 1320405909 151104 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually likely to start existing now that I have the complete design down < 1320405912 644763 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: What does it do < 1320405913 220577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not @) < 1320405926 759547 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It, uh... distribu...tises? What is the verb that a distribution does. < 1320405940 442185 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nah < 1320405942 815960 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1320405946 52499 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to start with at least < 1320405963 506960 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbs. < 1320405971 851201 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It disturbs. < 1320406001 971961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's based on a purely functional, source-model, transparent-binary-distribution package, configuration /and service/ manager!! Transparent multilib!! FREE PONY < 1320406003 708225 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'd make it a disturbance < 1320406055 449715 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbitbutbution. < 1320406062 50356 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbi-butt-ion. < 1320406064 901031 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe it distempers instead. < 1320406078 516381 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A distemperance? < 1320406093 986278 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's your favourite Linux distemp?" < 1320406094 233574 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1320406100 1747 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's the best distemperance. < 1320406125 51779 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is my favorite linux disturbi-butt-ion < 1320406127 756334 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned: Generic support for subsuming other package managers??? < 1320406129 371108 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GOOD. < 1320406168 474697 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is it successfully compatible with all existing systems while allow their software to cooperate seamlessly? < 1320406183 162860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a cardboard box. < 1320406190 53531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inside is a kitten. < 1320406199 885866 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kitten makes you forget there was a Linux distro, and also not care because aww, kittens. < 1320406267 210197 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kitten - the robot's choice." < 1320406267 801844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cutekittehs.com/files/2011/08/cute-adorable-kittens-0044.jpg obligatory < 1320406284 813738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, turn on that blender now! < 1320406289 679557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO TEMPTING < 1320406300 995171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should do that on "will it blend" < 1320406301 580193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1320406391 530175 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry but you have no soul. < 1320406398 455239 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitty. Kitty. Kitten I will save you. < 1320406399 192165 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1320406400 555574 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All better. < 1320406422 131569 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OMG please please please write me some (robotfinds)Kitten ads. < 1320406426 1381 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx < 1320406429 774116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :blended cat is the best cat. < 1320406451 554638 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for drinks! for parties! go pitapat! go flip-flap! < 1320406523 302208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Sorry but you have no soul. <-- sssh! keep quiet about that! < 1320406554 406111 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super Sexing Shell. < 1320406560 444126 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sssh. < 1320406566 990301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1320406671 129232 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at least: "bizarre ssh host management" / "super ssh" / "Simplified SGML for Serial Headers" < 1320406687 522176 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :runCurses :: Curses a -> IO aSource < 1320406687 684840 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put the terminal in graphical mode, including enabling special keys, colors, and mouse events (if supported). < 1320406687 737321 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the Curses block has finished running, the terminal is reset to text mode. < 1320406697 97847 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for putting this at the top of the Haddock documentation, I can discount your ibrary now! < 1320406715 357926 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something wrong? :-P < 1320406733 482686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320406735 858895 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, the part where it wants me to write my entire IO code in an opaque Curses monad < 1320406760 24393 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called type-safety < 1320406762 135435 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No transformer? < 1320406774 322680 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No transformer < 1320406776 716754 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's MonadIO < 1320406778 877761 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because it's literally IO < 1320406781 870885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a new Discworld book????? < 1320406782 107718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1320406787 682857 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And yes, it is; exercise: implement fixIO < 1320406788 247648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I this far out of the loop. < 1320406792 787747 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1320406794 139339 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And yes, it is; exercise: implement forkIO < 1320406801 126860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Actually let's make it easier < 1320406801 585544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : There was a new Discworld book????? <-- which one? < 1320406804 527864 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Implement catch < 1320406840 235123 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (This is "easy" in the sense of "still actually impossible") < 1320406846 646717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Snuff, apparently. < 1320406864 77088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed it too < 1320406864 219180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only noticed through Pratchett's Facebook page, three days after it was released. < 1320406865 764235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1320406873 95374 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK wow hscurses why would you actually reuse ncurses' naming scheme. < 1320406875 967261 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... that's not a good idea. < 1320406882 177928 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vty it is I guess < 1320406894 263048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it does use under_scores < 1320406914 411514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually wow these underscores really hurt me inside < 1320406953 509643 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's got some nice pure stuff? < 1320406973 226761 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Just liftIO :: Curses a -> IO a and you don't need to use runCurses? < 1320406988 871845 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think you understand what liftIO is < 1320406999 225589 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or how to unify types :P < 1320407001 991896 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftIO < 1320407002 985324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `liftIO' < 1320407003 257898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `Control.Monad.Error.liftIO', imported from Control.Monad.Error < 1320407003 310704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : or `Control.Monad.Logic.liftIO', imported from Control.Monad.Logic < 1320407005 152319 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whoops < 1320407008 791530 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot... < 1320407017 41401 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320407030 760313 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, liftIO is the other way around, duh < 1320407032 544133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well I ordered the book now. < 1320407061 409835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OItfil :: (oIdanoM m) => m a -> IO a < 1320407082 394656 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/vty/4.7.0.6/doc/html/Graphics-Vty-Attributes.html#t:MaybeDefault < 1320407085 833311 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross??? < 1320407096 546182 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does nobody have any taste < 1320407137 3379 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vty-ui < 1320407142 40123 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This looks promising I guess < 1320407159 282767 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually no < 1320407163 837464 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want any of those widgets < 1320407170 831588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apatr from a progress bar < 1320407174 598293 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Apatr/Apart/ < 1320407201 993004 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hscurses is the direct binding, makes sense that it reuses the names :-P < 1320407291 560506 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The world needs more "direct bindings except we use better names" < 1320407310 501292 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with that is difficulty of translation < 1320407314 935786 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, it could provide both < 1320407321 807395 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the helper thing, don't know if that's any good. < 1320407382 692146 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just using vty because it has decent-looking docs and is well-maintained :P < 1320407386 952997 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it does argh_ugh < 1320407387 5498 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320407394 785323 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technical term(tm)) < 1320407535 244561 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89BB4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320407727 626758 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320407778 546642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1320408054 180566 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there is someone in #django named Kittens. < 1320408067 490877 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they are actually kittens. < 1320408081 358592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you may be surprised! < 1320408444 232215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/EdJDazYS < 1320408447 917265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such helpful people on #django < 1320408450 669617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1320408487 470345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :DjangoProphet < 1320408554 445585 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DjangoProphet: He said DjagoProphet. < 1320408560 924126 :DjangoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he did. < 1320408568 159317 :DjangoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :DjagoProphet < 1320408614 617831 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crafty advertising tool, only help people if they agree to change their names to be based on your product. < 1320408650 607233 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The main object. At most one should be created. An alternative is to use unsafePerformIO to automatically create a singleton Vty instance when required." < 1320408650 977253 :DjagoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ask about their irc client mysteriously. < 1320408655 31013 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you DO this to me, guys. < 1320408682 602426 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uuuurgh: terminal_handle :: (Applicative m, MonadIO m) => m TerminalHandle < 1320408732 378104 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DjagoProphet: Possibly the IRC client question is another part on their "will we help or not" checklist. If you were using, say, a client written in PHP, they'd be all "no wai". < 1320408793 33400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what? 33554432 is an awesome power of 2 < 1320408848 92503 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a power of 2? < 1320408850 951761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320408852 781347 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :32M. < 1320408854 864348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :33554432 bytes should be enough for everyone. < 1320408861 689560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2**25 < 1320408864 180792 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't /look/ like a power of two < 1320408870 733292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's awesome < 1320408874 244802 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1320408877 496731 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: The Applicative, or what? :-P < 1320408879 527655 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an odd power, though, those are all a bit... odd. < 1320408908 95449 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (a) Literally isomorphic to IO TerminalHandle (OK, it can actually not be isomorphic, if you have a completely broken monad, in which case it'll probably do something much less sensible than a single lift) (b) Would it kill you to use liftM/return/ap when you're writing library code < 1320408922 504573 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We should only use meta-powers of two. < 1320408954 606374 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'd prefer it if everything used MonadIO instead of IO: no more lifting < 1320408975 584597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Encouraging monad transformer stacks on top of IO is a very bad idea < 1320408986 854558 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PowerTower is the best function. < 1320408989 820403 :DjagoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how does a number look like a power of 2? < 1320408995 129133 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only are they a code smell, they're just plain a pain in the arse to use < 1320408996 854512 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. catch < 1320409000 808634 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know of monad-control; it's hideous < 1320409038 442947 :DjagoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I agree Tower of Power is an excellent musical group. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LjrCV4Gnxw < 1320409078 540983 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: How should one avoid them; in general most programs are internally largely StateT s IO < 1320409092 795870 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: s/most programs/most programs written in an imperative language/ < 1320409108 307197 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: No, most programs :-P < 1320409111 459741 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1320409112 939538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders what the correct way to write "a list of 100 1s" is in OCaml < 1320409114 767269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most programs do I/O internally < 1320409124 667931 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the StateT part < 1320409130 470354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a helper function, but ideally I'd like to find something in List to do that < 1320409132 908943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't there < 1320409142 614183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you want to thread everything through a State monad global, be my guest! (It will be horrible.) Oh, and I hope you never, ever want concurrency! < 1320409144 363937 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Most programs have the I part of the I/O affect their state in some way < 1320409162 832996 :DjagoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what's state. < 1320409165 514243 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I didn't say "everything", I just meant that it'd show up in a lot of places < 1320409168 323734 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best powers of two to use: http://oeis.org/A014221 "0, 1, 2, 4, 16, 65536 ... comments: Next term has 19729 digits." < 1320409178 399638 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: By saying most programs are (StateT s IO) you're saying that every single component of most programs needs to access and modify every piece of state, and also needs to perform completely arbitrary IO < 1320409186 670790 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yeah, that's not what I meant < 1320409195 992157 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So if you're right, modular programming is a hopeless task, separating software into components is futile, and functional programming is hopeless < 1320409203 572284 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score one for transformer stacks? < 1320409206 316897 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Still not what I meant < 1320409224 159476 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You might not mean it, but it's what you said; that's what you're claiming by putting all your program in that < 1320409235 344927 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I said "largely" < 1320409258 942138 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: By which I meant that it'll show up in many if not most of the top-levelish functions < 1320409260 48407 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Then what does "largely" make it mean instead < 1320409282 799794 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who use monad transformer stacks don't localise their use to "top-levelish" functions < 1320409283 730849 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: But of course that doesn't mean that every single IO-using or s-using function has to be in the StateT < 1320409288 640411 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not seen a single person do that, they stuff everything in there < 1320409291 97227 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do :-P < 1320409297 415094 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least nowadays < 1320409300 711590 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe you < 1320409315 441637 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it's just top-level functions then "MVar s -> IO a" is hardly worse than "StateT s IO a" < 1320409332 570445 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: It isn't a royal pain to make "s" a more specific type for things that only need certain parts < 1320409340 185122 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: You can do concurrency < 1320409351 239509 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ha. < 1320409359 865658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just Ackermann. < 1320409370 297701 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 vaguely wonders what the correct way to write "a list of 100 1s" is in OCaml < 1320409374 296641 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it have an iota operation? < 1320409378 458047 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iota : int -> int list < 1320409385 32905 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iota 9 = [0;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8] < 1320409385 760252 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1320409400 329246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1320409409 562691 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seriously? < 1320409416 9450 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't do ranges? < 1320409449 283730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in Pervasives or List < 1320409465 578674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, as we've already established, are the only modules allowed inside the sandbox) < 1320409472 552473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those are the most obvious modules for a range operator to be in < 1320409490 261378 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't this what batteries is for < 1320409498 755281 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-191.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1320409502 677822 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1320409507 384721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I just kicked Wooble < 1320409510 746470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a legitimate reason < 1320409515 455863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you might be amused < 1320409546 225909 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's the PowerTower[2, n] too, just turns out it's Ackermanny too with the proper definition. < 1320409565 963629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that Mathematica syntax? For shame! < 1320409601 495344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's Mathematica syntax because it's a Mathematica function; I don't know any other place that'd call it PowerTower. < 1320409622 357241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1320409632 633928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "tetration" the usual name? < 1320409657 309536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly; it's a name for it I've seen, at least. < 1320409686 718982 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the one I was thinking of; but the http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PowerTower.html just mentions it in a somewhat non-prominent way. < 1320409687 997398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica is actually quite similar to Prolog without the backtracking, internally < 1320409698 456161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably worrying < 1320409698 944451 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Isn't everything Wooble says kickable? < 1320409703 780975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no < 1320409710 72288 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1320409718 133305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he accidentally pasted a hundreds-of-lines-long pastescript into #devnull_nethack, though, and that definitely is < 1320409737 356424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pastescript? I was wondering what it was supposed to bea < 1320409738 497319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :be* < 1320409740 729493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it for? < 1320409761 476960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: setting autopickup exceptions < 1320409764 851200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1320409773 122899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :devnull turned on APE, but not the ability to configure it via the RC file < 1320409776 128487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to set them in-game < 1320409783 320540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sucks < 1320409802 35565 :DjagoProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet < 1320409825 854762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no cow level. < 1320409831 473325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ? < 1320409837 614027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Diablo meme < 1320409838 188870 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to make ncurses use the "primary" screen? < 1320409842 555065 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than switching away to the alternate thing. < 1320409849 90282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blizzard put in a secret cow level in Diablo II as a reference to it < 1320409859 782575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1320409871 524189 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You guys know what I mean, right?) < 1320409881 143859 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cheat code for god mode in Diablo 2 is thereisnocowlevel < 1320409890 965596 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, surprisingly, disabled the secret cow level. < 1320409904 982104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not entirely. < 1320409919 615260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you mean that once you edit the program there is no trace of the stuff it displayed? < 1320409921 958855 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ever noticed how curses prorgams reset your scrollbar? < 1320409922 439560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit* < 1320409925 928131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right < 1320409926 543253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1320409929 392017 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't leave a trace in your shell session? < 1320409929 852433 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1320409933 34937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XAfUcvdhmc < 1320409935 666607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no I don't know how < 1320409936 74343 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good music. < 1320409937 488039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, as befits computer game players, they figured out a way to abuse the cow level for farming massive amounts of exp in multiplayer < 1320409940 125659 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to make progress bars. :( < 1320409942 141152 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: StateT s IO doesn't preclude concurrency, you just need to runStateT them and then figure out what to do with the state afterwards < 1320409945 318065 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to roll my own with ANSI? < 1320409946 716811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, use plain termcap? < 1320409958 417677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why use screen for a progress bar? < 1320409960 106806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't that pretty much its purpose? I don't think it's much of an abuse. < 1320409965 821610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or terminfo rather < 1320409973 103884 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ansi-terminal < 1320409973 177584 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "You just gotta implement your own concurrency strategy; btw hope you weren't expecting shared memory of any kind, or MVar style semantics, or transactions, or ..." < 1320409983 359360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: its purpose is terminal multiplexing; I don't see what that has to do with progress bars < 1320409992 69417 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Uh? < 1320409997 115430 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: `you must have me mistaken with someone else < 1320410000 430514 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: If you want to pass in an MVar, pass in an MVar < 1320410004 228396 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: MVar a -> StateT s IO b < 1320410021 668805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, you were talking about screen, so was I < 1320410030 826052 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Most programs" don't have a bunch of state that only gets synchronised when a thread dies < 1320410034 903799 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your scenario is ridiculous < 1320410042 757671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, no I was talking about the secret cow level. < 1320410044 625749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1320410048 986327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1320410050 274777 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You're not alone: http://www.shallowsky.com/linux/noaltscreen.html has the termcap/terminfo capability to mess with. < 1320410050 726893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not about progress bars. < 1320410051 897271 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait, why use screen for a progress bar? < 1320410060 24952 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not what screen is. < 1320410079 320273 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh. I want to implement this in the program though. < 1320410093 102984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I still don't get what you're trying to do, or to tell me < 1320410093 397238 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ansi-terminal hasn't been updated for over a year which is worrying < 1320410110 753116 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's not exactly the most high-level API < 1320410125 826365 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it'll do < 1320410152 580923 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you really want me to bother explaining when the misinterpretation of terminology you made makes the chances of you giving a correct answer ~0? < 1320410159 431956 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't know what the alternate screen is, you can't help :p < 1320410160 437816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: There's wrappers to it < 1320410189 466738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, I thought you were talking about screen(1) < 1320410197 121564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know what the alternate screen is < 1320410203 63762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've been having serious problems following your conversation < 1320410207 296033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies that I'm misunderstanding something < 1320410209 604125 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I see exactly one < 1320410216 342655 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Maybe they don't have such state, but most programs don't have concurrency in the first place so I can't think of a sufficient amount of examples. But fair enough, most concurrent programs probably should avoid StateT < 1320410219 70475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking you to explain again in different words in the hope that I understand it the second time < 1320410220 316945 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Maybe there was only one < 1320410222 183504 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Run curses program; note how it runs on the alternate screen < 1320410224 686411 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've only ever used ansi-terminal directly < 1320410228 4366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Note how all I want is an inline progress bar < 1320410241 71013 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's called AC-Terminal; I think I started ignoring all packages starting with AC- because their author is an amateur or something < 1320410252 925149 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because there's like fifty of them < 1320410262 497919 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yeah fair enough < 1320410264 394733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: aha, it's to do with curses(3), not with screen(1) < 1320410274 703300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally when I make progress bars, I just use a bunch of \r < 1320410280 259127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and redraw them each time < 1320410281 343670 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not really to do with curses either, I'm asking for a general solution < 1320410284 311488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works even on dumb terminals < 1320410287 853767 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I am aware one can do progress bars in that manner < 1320410289 794632 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not on Windows < 1320410291 541298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure it's a perfect solution < 1320410294 126146 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously telling me that isn't going to actually help :P < 1320410296 249554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Windows doesn't respect \r? < 1320410298 697517 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'screen' has a command (termcap/terminfo/termcapinfo) to tweak the current termcap/terminfo entry without going through the hassle of editing any files; if you feel sufficiently motivated, you could check how that's done; presumably by environment variables somehow. (At least for termcap you can just set TERMCAP; don't know about terminfo, though.) < 1320410302 210566 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just use ansi-terminal, it does colours and cursor controls < 1320410303 304464 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure cmd.exe doesn't < 1320410306 67564 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But not entirely < 1320410313 479769 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if the Windows support is beyond useless to me < 1320410316 153823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so what are you trying to do that \r progress bars can't do? < 1320410351 208004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but cmd.exe isn't responsible for rendering stdout, NTVDM is; and I know that at least the old-fashioned conio.h API handles \r just fine < 1320410361 331311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably whatever it was replaced with does too < 1320410366 595121 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not looking to get XY Problemed; manually writing out ANSI escape codes and \rs is as ugly and unmaintainable as it is non-portable < 1320410368 51528 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow okay Django has stumped me. < 1320410371 248850 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since I already have a solution < 1320410396 643529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the amusing thing is, I'm seriously considering to change Ace to hardcode ANSI escape codes rather than using termcap < 1320410403 578490 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NTVDM is the 16-bit emulator, I fail to see how it's relevant < 1320410412 415457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, that would explain my results < 1320410413 184079 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not terminfo < 1320410420 806832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: termcap/terminfo/curses/etc < 1320410430 856219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, they adapt to the terminal you're actually using < 1320410437 941163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that the ttyrec might not play back on other people's terminals < 1320410455 293584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often, the entries in the database are wrong, so they don't even adapt to your own terminal < 1320410470 736203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, VT100, and some of the extensions of it, are both standardised and actually work on pretty much all terminals in practice < 1320410480 116797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hardcoding that seems to work better than using terminal-specific codes < 1320410484 412019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a different meaning of "portable" < 1320410489 630031 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Barf @ it uses imperative actions to control things like colours; I guess I'll look at ansi-wl-pprint too, which is a wrapper, but I doubt it can do progress bars < 1320410559 492222 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think ansi-wl-pprint just has pretty printing with colours and bold and stuff, not the ability to write over earlier text < 1320410573 705870 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Technically, System.Console.ANSI doesn't offer that either < 1320410578 724535 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You have to use the cursor functions to do that < 1320410593 487765 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could just print out each progress bar step with the ansi-wl-pprint stuff and use ansi-terminal to overwrite it each time < 1320410593 662448 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that /is/ a way of doing that < 1320410602 188526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have another way? :p < 1320410607 985860 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I just meant you can't use solely ansi-wl-pprint < 1320410611 414587 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1320410620 87101 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be overkill for just a progress bars < 1320410622 691547 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s// < 1320410625 709376 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how much I use this < 1320410631 645215 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can always make a little mini-module of tricks < 1320410641 608148 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s\//s$\// < 1320410652 758658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Thanks to Brandon S. Allbery and Curt Sampson for pointing me in the right direction on xterm title setting on haskell-cafe. The 0 signifies that both the title and icon text should be set: i.e. the text for the window in the Start bar (or similar) as well as that in the actual window title. This is chosen for consistent behaviour between Unixes and Windows." < 1320410654 630763 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--docs of hCursorUp,hCursorBackward,hCursorForward,hCursorDown < 1320410656 583911 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'/"/ < 1320410661 133818 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These docs are very badly organised < 1320410971 44092 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t round < 1320410972 103937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1320411065 847991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: btw, am I mad for using the powers of 2 in lexicographical order as a test input to a sort function? < 1320411071 746642 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1320411073 458445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed to be reasonably interestingly misordered < 1320411106 55687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hits a few expected corner cases (it's meant to be a bignum sort, and it goes a little over the range of an integer in my 32-bit OCaml impl) < 1320411171 619300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it a good idea to connect a wired and wireless network, both designed to go to the Internet at large, simultaneously? < 1320411178 578175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing no because they have different proxy settings < 1320411197 115366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocks :: [Char] < 1320411197 284517 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocks = "▏▎▍▌▋▊▉█" < 1320411197 349704 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwwww yeah < 1320411206 810633 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has no idea how fancy my progress bar is going to be. < 1320411240 484171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they have proxy settings? < 1320411246 518247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320411252 923515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wired network firewalls everything, including 80 < 1320411263 387653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has an autoproxy to let you access the Web < 1320411264 821677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you can't ssh out for example? < 1320411268 84951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of the WPAD things) < 1320411268 416152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use https? < 1320411274 813818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :443 can go through the proxy < 1320411287 864310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :25 works too, but only to a few addresses < 1320411290 771117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so man in the middle by default? < 1320411294 87079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320411296 154728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1320411301 390200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use that network < 1320411309 76308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :work network, they're all like that < 1320411320 899255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm surprised firefox doesn't display wrong certificate for the proxy all the time < 1320411334 922953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with a work computer, it's in the root CAs < 1320411336 559332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong certificate errors* < 1320411339 328608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320411349 990499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would use the wireless if it is saner < 1320411353 426279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might not decrypt the contents of an HTTPS transmission, though, just check where you're connecting < 1320411358 791046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wireless is saner except it keeps dropping < 1320411366 106770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, idea < 1320411369 952427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :3G < 1320411376 52257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to connect to https://google.com in Chromium < 1320411389 301314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is going to use spdy, no? < 1320411396 61698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I'm on the wireless, ofc it's going to work < 1320411402 360906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it did just jump to an insecure version < 1320411414 326406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try https://encrypted.google.com < 1320411427 556769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that works < 1320411435 236840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, chromium has Google's certs hardcoded < 1320411439 610160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Chromium < 1320411440 380190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1320411444 55562 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1320411447 824751 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this progress bar /almost/ works < 1320411454 981715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can detect MITMing even with a certificate added by your employer < 1320411459 137360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320411464 410843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably try that next time I'm on the wired < 1320411474 786482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that the proxy can tell I'm connecting to Google, but doesn't decrypt the contents < 1320411476 559346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, though < 1320411495 148017 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to run a program that will make them vaguely worried that their terminal can output such SMOOTH PROGRESS BARS? < 1320411508 172816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone. everyone wants that program. < 1320411510 450260 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that everyone could be you. < 1320411516 349327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is unicode block characters, isn't it? < 1320411518 392614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1320411525 266091 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, but it's seriously unnerving :P < 1320411532 981663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, doubtful < 1320411546 305258 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see for yourself: http://sprunge.us/IhEb < 1320411582 137856 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should be incapable of decrypting the contents < 1320411583 663490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 56345683457823567897543234567 * 9313456789341754124566812142 < 1320411584 517882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 524773088150368273322823696325607978422660521630529712514 < 1320411586 213437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, does it work on ghc 6.whatever? < 1320411589 339889 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sur < 1320411590 81785 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1320411594 203750 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs the small ansi-terminal library < 1320411599 141875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work < 1320411610 364535 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in AUR < 1320411619 776459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm on my ubuntu laptop < 1320411621 466497 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also will install in about 5 seconds with "cabal install ansi-terminal" < 1320411644 997077 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, and apt-get install libghc-ansi-terminal-dev < 1320411649 459141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ testcase to determine that a) the library does indeed handle bignums rather than using native ints, b) it multiplies in O(log n), not O(n) < 1320411653 548720 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how new the ubuntu is < 1320411664 501392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 10.04 LTS < 1320411679 509606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what about installing Cabal? or does Ubuntu have that by default nowadays? < 1320411701 433930 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I offered that; Vorpal's just looking for excuses though, so I'm offering as many trivial solutions as possible to antagonise him < 1320411717 62407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm going to install it, sure < 1320411725 179753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just going to take a while over 3G < 1320411733 407363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: do Unicode block characters line up perfectly in most terminals? I'm used to them leaving pixel-wide gaps < 1320411734 23024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not at home atm) < 1320411751 744358 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try the program and see; I've had some alignment issues getting the full thing to work, but the program doesn't suffer from them by definition < 1320411768 887926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yeah the package is not in the repo, will check the cabal solution < 1320411781 894634 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on: Unicode has every block width going from the left from eighth to whole, but only (a) right one eighth and (b) right half < 1320411786 623264 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST THROW THEM ALL IN < 1320411788 930723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORK WITH ME HERE < 1320411795 386745 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :▏▎▍▌▋▊▉█ < 1320411795 503768 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :▏▎▍▌▋▊▉█ < 1320411797 63685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm missing System.Console.ANSI; what package is it in? < 1320411802 230570 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lines up for me < 1320411803 302740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :libghc-ansi-terminal-dev? < 1320411814 315517 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1320411817 363887 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just cabal install ansi-terminal < 1320411833 75018 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523: I'm not sure whether it's more or less unnerving if you take the last 0 off the threadDelay line < 1320411840 514545 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(run the program with "runhaskell foo.hs", btw) < 1320411843 126195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the package doesn't exist in this Ubuntu < 1320411855 619699 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cabal install ansi-terminal, then; it'll install into ~/.cabal < 1320411859 990531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it tells me I have to cabal update first < 1320411860 631072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have cabal either < 1320411864 119964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what package is /that/ in? < 1320411867 265492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do that, then < 1320411867 543400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this is going to take a while. I'm on EDGE now. < 1320411874 219036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "cabal-install" < 1320411886 290541 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you really shouldn't use debian ghc btw, but *shrug* < 1320411887 677895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: there is a new version of cabal-install available. < 1320411887 833769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :To upgrade, run: cabal install cabal-install < 1320411890 90640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I do that? < 1320411892 989537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not I guess < 1320411898 178467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what should be used instead? and what's wrong with debian ghc? < 1320411906 897973 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not unless you want to break everything < 1320411906 982979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's just what CPAN does < 1320411914 82043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right < 1320411918 22999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this implies it may be a bad thing < 1320411925 351659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, where was the link now again? < 1320411933 235295 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in your scrollback < 1320411938 86232 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1320411939 95848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, *shrug* < 1320411956 388121 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your choice whether you want to make the cabal-install work a waste or not :) < 1320411963 817581 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm busy typing a response to ais523, who asked a non-trivial question < 1320411967 361102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file foo.hs < 1320411967 496683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.hs: UTF-8 Unicode Java program text < 1320411968 79193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1320411989 952294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why is it green? < 1320412000 629900 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress bars are green < 1320412004 859168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway it is kind of jerky < 1320412006 477034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t.o: In function `sYB_info': < 1320412007 843151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.text+0x6ac): undefined reference to `ansizmterminalzm0zi5zi5_SystemziConsoleziANSIziUnix_showCursor_closure' < 1320412009 386572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in which OS? < 1320412012 644944 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you didn't do what I told you to do < 1320412028 830190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you tell me to do? I installed cabal, then did cabal install, then tried to compile with ghc < 1320412032 174581 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the binary package installed manually; and, well, debian/ubuntu ghc /itself/ isn't broken, but it /is/ years old except in the very latest releases; but more importantly, if you install any non-core (= shipped with ghc) libraries with apt-get, then you can't mix it with cabal-installed libraries at all, which is problematic because debian's haskell library set is (a) old (b) incrediby incomplete < 1320412037 886873 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (run the program with "runhaskell foo.hs", btw) < 1320412055 128536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1320412070 105656 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1320412085 795716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's kind-of jerky due to rounding errors < 1320412096 100631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Unicode < 1320412104 893286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does make a continuous bar in gnome-terminal < 1320412109 471785 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1320412114 599906 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly smooth here < 1320412122 595094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it moves one pixel, sometimes too < 1320412125 792330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two < 1320412136 25670 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I'm going to guess it's the import statements < 1320412142 202535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, because it can't subpixel alias, because it's green < 1320412147 223464 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for missing a semicolon, they're pretty much identical < 1320412153 264260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be three times smoother if it were white < 1320412155 952069 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: and not being lowercase < 1320412161 595681 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote aha, because it can't subpixel alias, because it's green it'd be three times smoother if it were white < 1320412163 721112 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :706) aha, because it can't subpixel alias, because it's green it'd be three times smoother if it were white < 1320412167 44725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*antialias < 1320412168 372397 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the syntax is the same. < 1320412171 864963 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, probably better with just the second one < 1320412174 976441 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote < 1320412177 519649 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* aha, because it can't subpixel alias, because it's green it'd be three times smoother if it were white < 1320412184 501483 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't funny at all then, so meh < 1320412186 283444 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have uppercase package names in Java (but it's probs bad practice) < 1320412187 904223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: but out of context, it's not funny < 1320412198 231510 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1320412201 243917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks like an out-of-context "that's what she said" sort of innuendo < 1320412207 50143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those aren't generally that funny < 1320412212 322340 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha omg i just created an unintentional fancy animation < 1320412223 570353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you don't normally omg < 1320412226 354861 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but < 1320412227 499204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, hm yeah < 1320412229 155213 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun :DDDDd < 1320412230 636511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you're elliott_? < 1320412234 913661 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it resulted as "Java" instead of "Python" < 1320412253 713120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java would have more semicolons < 1320412272 484029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, python tends to not have foo.bar when importing very often at least < 1320412289 881784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from foo import bar < 1320412305 740902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, potentially interesting project: write a really good programming language guesser < 1320412317 722782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like what file(1) tries to do, except actually working < 1320412337 683959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ohcount has a quite okay one in it iirc. It mixes up C and C++ sometimes, but that is actually quite hard to tell apart sometimes < 1320412342 322773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm registered to freenode, if that's what you meant... I have clue what you're saying. < 1320412347 540621 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...mischan. < 1320412359 237603 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too have clue what you're saying. < 1320412360 648903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would basically have to try to parse it as both C and C++ completely and see which worked (possibly both) < 1320412384 923352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a typical C++ program would contain at least one method call, which would give away that it wasn't C < 1320412395 344886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't using methods, than what are you doing using C++? < 1320412401 762838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well for headers it can be less clear I guess < 1320412412 189775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, headers are often C/C++ polyglots < 1320412420 657283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the case of a header, the correct language is "cpp", I suspect < 1320412428 25622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320412460 412518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway ohcount gets confused if you have stuff like this in a header: struct foo { int new; ... } < 1320412475 274541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously C, it doesn't parse as C++ < 1320412478 353278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1320412494 627656 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It calls 'struct foo { int new; };' C < 1320412496 822323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but a simple keyword scanning method to determine if it is C++ or C wouldn't handle that < 1320412510 578945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh kay < 1320412512 316777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay* < 1320412515 416485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword scanning isn't really the way to go < 1320412523 284844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I distinctly remember an older version didn't handle that though < 1320412524 125658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because languages tend to have similar keywords < 1320412532 971635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think looking for keyword/punctuation combos would work better < 1320412556 48657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc it did that to separate C/C++ mostly. And other methods to determine it was one of them in the first place < 1320412573 832290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it separate C and C++ from C# and Java? < 1320412582 80501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look pretty similar keyword-wise too < 1320412585 432296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember < 1320412589 17875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is open source anyway < 1320412591 119471 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :C and C++ don't have import. < 1320412593 43442 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1320412596 810734 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have a parser for all the languages it supports, maybe it just tries to parse as everything and then has some supersedence rules: https://github.com/blackducksw/ohcount/tree/master/src/parsers < 1320412610 703611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: there are C and C++ compilers that accept "#import" as a preprocessor directive < 1320412621 602067 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, except no C++ < 1320412621 690510 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but that's easily distinguished from Java imports. < 1320412624 222482 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I can see < 1320412624 975731 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :#import vs import < 1320412633 491623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1320412647 633308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: isn't that because C++ is TC to even parse? < 1320412656 125757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, c.rl handles C and C++ it seems < 1320412673 875082 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :More interesting might be distinguishing Java from Scala from Python using keyword scanning. < 1320412684 757037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is .rl anyway? < 1320412695 553836 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ragel < 1320412700 761688 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Scala's probs a little distinctive with val/var/class/import all at once. < 1320412700 859897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1320412703 984143 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Depends on what you call the "parse" stage, I guess < 1320412705 327574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine Java from Scala would be easy using punctuation < 1320412726 142411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ragel being a parser generator for C? < 1320412729 413663 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala vs Python should be easy. < 1320412733 480582 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former has curly braces. < 1320412737 195961 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Finding stuff like whether "new" is used as a variable name could be done before the TC part, I think < 1320412763 795876 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Java vs Groovy? < 1320412767 10640 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java vs C#? < 1320412769 788498 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A parser generator, at least < 1320412771 995887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Groovy < 1320412785 482620 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell vs Python? < 1320412795 332450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java vs C# is easiest in practice by looking for getters and setters, the conventions for those are entirely different in the two languages and they're pretty common < 1320412808 926726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: "let" is all over the place in Haskell, not so in Python < 1320412820 169453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't C# use "using" and java "import" too? < 1320412825 488914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to print a unicode character as high as the line height? :p < 1320412849 590957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: use a printer? < 1320412852 362440 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Perl vs line noise? < 1320412857 375166 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1320412859 280114 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Your blocks :: [Char] were line height for me < 1320412860 289809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: that one is really easy < 1320412865 192403 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not for me :( < 1320412871 739522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :line noise doesn't look anything like Perl < 1320412874 659215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you not seen it before? < 1320412875 749266 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1320412879 643497 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It matters because I need to set the background so that partially-filled characters don't have a white background < 1320412885 246999 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the grey of the rest of the unfilled area < 1320412889 470465 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :More seriously. < 1320412891 649095 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that leaves an ugly grey line above the bar for me < 1320412897 820089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even obfuscated or golfed Perl tends to gravitate towards particular characters < 1320412909 719493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: Not for me :( <-- nor for me, do unicode line drawing characters join up for you < 1320412911 212439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1320412912 625140 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hey. < 1320412925 481305 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's unrelated. < 1320412941 406333 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think you have either a font problem or a line-spacing problem and in either case, you "can't" make it work < 1320412941 605624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not if the terminal inserts padding between lines < 1320412948 162357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right < 1320412951 717865 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would you look at file extensions or shebangs? < 1320412962 102534 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So I suppose it will still fail completely if you do the "in suck.h #define BEGIN {, #define END }; in trytofiguremeout.c #include "suck.h", no curly braces at all" thing. < 1320412962 944674 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess the only solution is to give up my fancy granularity :( < 1320412971 59084 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if extension matches a known language, that language gains supercedance over every other language, if it parses as it < 1320412985 133617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: yes, in practice; I'm interested in the theory of doing without, though < 1320413057 396471 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well yes, you can do "anything you want" with CPP, of course < 1320413067 558463 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Looks like gnome-terminal has the exact same problem, so I can hardly ignore it < 1320413112 130663 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Make one-line high bars, or use something like '#' that doesn't even try to look completely filling < 1320413124 54219 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: One-line high bars? < 1320413177 736240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why do you need multiline stuff here? < 1320413185 602103 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, if you have one horizontal bar like ███, it doesn't matter whether it lines up with what's on the next line? Or why did you care about the lining up anyway < 1320413201 609125 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In quite a few browsers, in a "font-family: monospace;"

, mixing "normal text" and Unicode line-drawing characters ends up making the line-drawing bits misaligned badly.
< 1320413201 758961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1320413212 449181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why do you care about it being line height
< 1320413225 605220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch
< 1320413247 585039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://zem.fi/rfk86/ suffered from that quite a lot. :)
< 1320413251 7387 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You don't understand; say I have a progress bar with a grey background, being filled in by green. If I use full blocks of those two colours (ignoring background), everything works fine. But, if I want to use partially-filled blocks, then every partially-filled block will have a space of /normal/ background behind it!
< 1320413262 367186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, works now in firefox, how did you fix it?
< 1320413267 618548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So I need to "fill in" that gap with grey somehow; the obvious way is to set the background.
< 1320413286 244687 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that causes an ugly grey line to appear above the progress bar, because the background fills the whole line height, including the inter-line padding.
< 1320413308 842408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so why not leave it at the background colour of the terminal?
< 1320413318 635661 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You misread.
< 1320413319 650949 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: So: don't set the background or don't worry about the grey line
< 1320413330 450672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's still not going to work on terminals that render backgrounds and foregrounds differently
< 1320413340 767768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no I didn't. I'm questioning the need of that grey background
< 1320413341 106487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. jettyplay will use a darker shade for, say, "dark red" in the background than it will in the foreground
< 1320413354 676045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can read text even when the foreground and background are set to the same colour
< 1320413359 541447 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If I don't set a background at all, it's not, you know, a bar; I'd rather use full blocks than make it ugly in that way. The grey line is really awful.
< 1320413361 309825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, just do a green bar that grows over the natural bg colour of the terminal
< 1320413368 51248 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway "don't care about it" is not a solution to problems
< 1320413386 758921 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sorry :-P
< 1320413393 188379 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: How isn't it a bar if you don't set a background?
< 1320413394 283132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: rather, it's a claim that you don't need a solution to the problem
< 1320413407 769264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the usual solution to put [ and ] around the bar to show its endpoints?
< 1320413407 940452 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are such claims interesting
< 1320413413 210291 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ▉█▎looks barry to me
< 1320413416 692128 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I can resort to full blocks if I want
< 1320413419 547303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, but they can be correct, sometimes
< 1320413427 429255 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is to try and figure out if I have to
< 1320413433 142950 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it should now work in everything that does (and allows) font embedding the way it's done there; and it did work with the "regular" monospace font in *some* systems. But I do recall getting rather ragged right edges from others. I think I added a "DejaVu Sans Mono" before monospace to make it work everywhere where that font is installed, since it has all the characters the page uses.
< 1320413437 237739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could draw a "normal" ASCII bar, I just think this looks much nicer
< 1320413440 532475 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with full blocks
< 1320413443 530439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: ▉█▎looks barry to me <-- amusing, there is a gap between those in my irc client
< 1320413449 933034 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto
< 1320413451 495651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in mine
< 1320413455 255014 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for me
< 1320413471 809713 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have problematic terminals and/or fonts :-P
< 1320413475 804899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've had problems with "Monospace" referring to a non-monospace font in Windows, believe it or not
< 1320413483 310371 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Who uses an IRC client in a terminal
< 1320413485 821872 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Losers, that's who
< 1320413492 138278 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a gap in xchat; there's no gap in irssi/urxvt.
< 1320413506 721441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1320413510 851680 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have problematic GUI IRC clients
< 1320413527 506291 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm, the fact that repositioning the cursor causes a forced scroll down in ansi-terminal is problematic
< 1320413552 247387 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seemingly not fixable from the provided API
< 1320413558 313672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the first power of 2 that, expressed in base 10, starts with 7?
< 1320413567 215603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to express that in Haskell
< 1320413582 149412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Integer -> [Integer]
< 1320413582 852524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.QuickCheck.Arbitrary shrink :: Arbitrary a => a -> [a]
< 1320413582 969599 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.QuickCheck shrink :: Arbitrary a => a -> [a]
< 1320413583 22511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude repeat :: a -> [a]
< 1320413586 504289 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413587 676560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,...
< 1320413590 665345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Integer -> [Int]
< 1320413590 937278 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Is that somehow explicitly done by the implementation?
< 1320413591 169917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Time.Calendar gregorianMonthLength :: Integer -> Int -> Int
< 1320413591 288527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Time.Calendar.Julian julianMonthLength :: Integer -> Int -> Int
< 1320413591 341179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes gsize :: Data a => a -> Int
< 1320413603 653415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm trying to find a function that list-of-digitizes a number
< 1320413611 760076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find (("7" `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413613 566628 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 70368744177664
< 1320413616 485265 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Tada
< 1320413618 35735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320413622 721889 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find ((== '7') . head . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413624 171451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 70368744177664
< 1320413625 985595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually pretty large
< 1320413628 929886 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That too, but I don't like head :)
< 1320413634 945845 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: Is that somehow explicitly done by the implementation?
< 1320413637 537864 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I thought you didn't like using "show" like this :-P
< 1320413640 731417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that Haskell strings were just lists of chars
< 1320413642 526022 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320413642 594041 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's gotta be some way to avoid it
< 1320413643 737196 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely
< 1320413645 120629 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320413650 763059 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't, but oh well
< 1320413659 523253 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is more important than showing people how great Haskell is quickly
< 1320413661 580316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Ocaml, string, char list, and char array are all different types; string acts like char array, though)
< 1320413664 703237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OCaml
< 1320413671 147644 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find (("9" `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413673 9840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 9007199254740992
< 1320413675 198032 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'd check the implementation first
< 1320413686 212869 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map [0..9] $ \d -> find ((show d `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413687 311522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' against inferred type `[a1]'
< 1320413688 920504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Integer show
< 1320413689 223446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. That's something I cannot allow to happen.
< 1320413690 754518 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320413693 542323 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: flip map
< 1320413699 316073 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, right
< 1320413702 179643 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> flip map [0..9] $ \d -> find ((show d `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413706 177798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320413708 123870 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320413714 251775 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..9] `map` \d -> find ((show d `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413715 340262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' against inferred type `[a1]'
< 1320413715 798321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find (("42" `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413717 646938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 4294967296
< 1320413718 297494 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: 0 won't work
< 1320413720 379377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Ever
< 1320413722 465867 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P
< 1320413722 954912 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1320413735 412370 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> flip map [1..] $ \p -> find ((show p `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413737 268848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [Just 1,Just 2,Just 32,Just 4,Just 512,Just 64,Just 70368744177664,Just 8,J...
< 1320413747 635258 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> catMaybes . flip map [1..] $ \p -> find ((show p `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413748 194054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the list be unjusted, somehow?
< 1320413749 450303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,32,4,512,64,70368744177664,8,9007199254740992,1024,1125899906842624,12...
< 1320413759 531391 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: snap :)
< 1320413777 243860 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :map fromJust
< 1320413782 707739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Die
< 1320413791 364293 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: More appropriate in this case
< 1320413796 679271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what is the log_2 function in haskell now again?
< 1320413800 500699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, find /has/ to return Just x or else diverge, on an infinite list
< 1320413804 384400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> log2 70368744177664
< 1320413805 286979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `log2'
< 1320413806 600364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320413808 78219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that
< 1320413813 248354 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: catMaybes loses the mapping from the numbers you're looking for, in case you get Nothing
< 1320413814 647445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length show 70368744177664
< 1320413814 817795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t log
< 1320413815 521707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
< 1320413815 642809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `a1 -> GHC...
< 1320413815 876983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a
< 1320413816 734353 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [n | p <- [0..], Just n <- find ((show p `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]]
< 1320413817 798200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[t]'
< 1320413817 915348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `Data.Mayb...
< 1320413819 369562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length (show 70368744177664)
< 1320413819 971124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  14
< 1320413821 490608 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'd rather have an error
< 1320413829 449365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t log
< 1320413830 534102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a
< 1320413833 60399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ a reasonably bad way to do log_10
< 1320413844 974105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> log 70368744177664 / log 2
< 1320413845 808015 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  46.0
< 1320413849 782758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well rigtht
< 1320413850 232443 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [n | p <- [1..], Just n <- find ((show p `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]]
< 1320413851 314918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[t]'
< 1320413851 387110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right*
< 1320413851 441783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `Data.Mayb...
< 1320413857 625180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2^46 = that number
< 1320413858 228340 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320413865 190409 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [n | p <- [1..], let Just n = find ((show p `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]]
< 1320413866 910358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,32,4,512,64,70368744177664,8,9007199254740992,1024,1125899906842624,12...
< 1320413873 226324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> log 9007199254740992 / log 2
< 1320413873 967884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  53.0
< 1320413883 779313 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [n | p <- [1..], n <- map (2^) [0..], show p `isPrefixOf` show n]
< 1320413884 888850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,16,128,1024,16384,131072,1048576,16777216,134217728,1073741824,171798691...
< 1320413886 877496 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice
< 1320413888 706113 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1320413891 782996 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that broken
< 1320413892 949152 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1320413899 652376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the number 0 called 0? for consistency, it should probably be the null string
< 1320413906 969177 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [n | p <- [1..], let n:_ = [n | n <- map (2^) [0..], show p `isPrefixOf` show n]]
< 1320413908 71720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,32,4,512,64,70368744177664,8,9007199254740992,1024,1125899906842624,12...
< 1320413909 440512 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kidding :P)
< 1320413921 563954 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now how to avoid traversing the list of powers multiple times...
< 1320413930 624775 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t break
< 1320413931 576528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a])
< 1320413939 840193 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> break (("3" `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413941 918656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ([1,2,4,8,16],[32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,1310...
< 1320413950 98253 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> span (("3" `isPrefixOf`) . show) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413951 809977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ([],[1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131...
< 1320413953 287205 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320413995 301048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find ((7 ==) . head . (ord <$>) . flip (showIntAtBase 10 chr) []) $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413996 881205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 70368744177664
< 1320413998 8257 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f p xs = let (_, wow:xs') = span ((show p` isPrefixOf`) . show) xs in wow : f (p+1) xs' in f 1 $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320413999 865299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,4,8,16,32,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,26214...
< 1320414005 177924 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What
< 1320414023 940544 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f p xs = let (_, wow:xs') = span ((show p `isPrefixOf`) . show) xs in wow : f (p+1) xs' in f 1 $ map (2^) [0..]
< 1320414025 662182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,4,8,16,32,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,26214...
< 1320414029 257865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what we really need is a partition function that sorts into more than one partition, lazily
< 1320414058 417119 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait
< 1320414065 77813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algorithm is totally borked, I think
< 1320414067 585594 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is
< 1320414120 22829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd` =~ /production/ or die "Not downloading to production DB?";
< 1320414121 594974 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pwd`: not found
< 1320414146 41697 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?
< 1320414146 540716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a check that I ended up adding after accidentally putting live user data into the test DB
< 1320414158 957972 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the question mark
< 1320414161 775968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is possibly a worse mistake than putting test data in the production DB
< 1320414166 466144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's a NetHack thing
< 1320414173 909310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to put question marks on error messages that should never happen
< 1320414176 678276 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a -> Bool] -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414177 395326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude dropWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320414177 550235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List dropWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320414177 603667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude filter :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320414187 862879 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I bet that's some fancy applicative construction
< 1320414188 725516 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go go go
< 1320414208 399955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a -> Int] -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414208 679837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts groupWith :: Ord b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414208 910790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320414208 964076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts sortWith :: Ord b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320414219 293378 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :society
< 1320414219 528632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a -> Integer] -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414219 926159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts groupWith :: Ord b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414220 215678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320414220 269004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts sortWith :: Ord b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320414220 553906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is crazy.
< 1320414228 711108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those are what I want
< 1320414236 97106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why the square brackets?
< 1320414240 909793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Integer) -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414241 259132 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts groupWith :: Ord b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320414241 414192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts sortWith :: Ord b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320414241 466561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1320414247 399813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: intentionally, duh
< 1320414256 515445 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: What is that supposed to do
< 1320414259 212925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I mean, in /my/ query
< 1320414280 770772 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let finds fs (x:xs) = map (++ finds fs xs) $ map (\f -> if f x then [x] else []) fs in finds (map (==) [0..]) [0..]
< 1320414281 793579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = [t]
< 1320414293 212588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1320414331 159581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what's the Haskell to copy-replace the nth element of a list?
< 1320414332 961597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wouldn't work anyway
< 1320414337 92225 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't do that
< 1320414339 616288 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let finds fs (x:xs) = concatMap (++ finds fs xs) $ map (\f -> if f x then [x] else []) fs in finds (map (==) [0..]) [0..]
< 1320414342 802527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0*Exception: stack overflow
< 1320414347 795902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: even lazily?
< 1320414359 334587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, apply a function to the nth element of a list
< 1320414362 622675 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, laziness is a magic bullet that makes slow things super-fast
< 1320414363 861958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping the rest of the list the same
< 1320414370 965079 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still pay for it in the thunks
< 1320414377 51933 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more importantly, you don't index lists
< 1320414386 529805 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're indexing lists a lot, you've done something awful
< 1320414388 728781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you index, instead?
< 1320414393 753294 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrays, typically
< 1320414394 738938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was going to be a pretty short list
< 1320414395 129502 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that isn't a list
< 1320414397 410425 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tree or a vector
< 1320414403 784563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Haskell has arrays?
< 1320414408 900889 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes
< 1320414420 636466 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no. haskell is a toy language
< 1320414433 348365 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone writes their performance-critical haskell code with singly-linked lists
< 1320414486 476315 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also totally serious
< 1320414487 215176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'm the sort of person who'd prefer the code to be expressed as lists and the compiler to figure out how to optimize that
< 1320414500 652702 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you're the sort of person whose programs don't run within acceptable time limits
< 1320414520 672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should it be the programmer's responsibility to make basic data structures work quickly?
< 1320414524 930238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> listArray (0,MaxBound-1) [1..]
< 1320414525 893161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `MaxBound'
< 1320414528 77201 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick ais523 trolling
< 1320414531 126422 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> listArray (0,maxBound-1) [1..]
< 1320414532 170016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
< 1320414532 284638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `GHC.Num.Num a'
< 1320414532 337729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     ari...
< 1320414536 195782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320414542 994739 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> listArray (0,maxBound-1::Int) [1..]
< 1320414544 201160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated
< 1320414550 624471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on.
< 1320414553 827273 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's perfectly reasonable.
< 1320414567 522868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound-1::Int
< 1320414568 562113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  9223372036854775806
< 1320414573 922718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1320414578 415285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah dude.
< 1320414581 341448 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^63-1
< 1320414582 106176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  9223372036854775807
< 1320414590 698892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, no it isn't
< 1320414596 991160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it would have been if 32-bit, sure
< 1320414602 6685 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, Network.HTTP is unusable
< 1320414613 139051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why?
< 1320414618 267060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what if I want ALL MEMORY in my array?
< 1320414618 981722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid api
< 1320414627 52605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ...
< 1320414635 46532 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's critical to my application.
< 1320414658 732929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, then run it locally on a 128-bit system?
< 1320414682 769234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be the same thing?
< 1320414684 314339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so students seem to have found a way to cheat
< 1320414690 200948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my god.
< 1320414692 547852 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incredible.
< 1320414698 831893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're using the FFI to access the standard libraries without having to mention their names
< 1320414701 36417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of academia will crumble.
< 1320414709 274509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus getting around the restriction on which modules they're allowed to use
< 1320414714 412766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nicely creative, I guess?
< 1320414723 270033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell class?
< 1320414725 385857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1320414734 218712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know those existed.
< 1320414743 377554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: OCaml
< 1320414743 644019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would you allow access to the FFI in the first place in that context?
< 1320414747 367811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1320414760 235590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, because it doesn't do anything that was blacklisted
< 1320414764 648194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320414768 525165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is always the danger with blacklisting-based security
< 1320414771 106210 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's beautiful
< 1320414775 683119 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: give them top marks
< 1320414781 420306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I have a whitelisting-based security too, on the syscalls that can be used
< 1320414787 152311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'd let it pass, only the answer was wrong
< 1320414794 147510 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320414796 483277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are trying to miss the point of the question by converting the lists of digits to strings
< 1320414796 560843 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320414807 342232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my testsuite gets around that by giving them lists that don't fit into ints
< 1320414814 906999 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are these master's students or
< 1320414822 963724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first years
< 1320414835 436091 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :( how am i ever gonna get that cool that quickly
< 1320414837 372887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I used qsort() to answer a badly worded "implement a sorting algorithm" assignment. It passed with a note along the lines of "nice trick, will change the wording for the next year"
< 1320414839 177532 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i better read up on ocaml's ffi
< 1320414855 995447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, they're just using "external" declarations
< 1320414862 166199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's FFI or someting else, but it looks FFIish
< 1320414876 376144 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, looks like it
< 1320414886 286332 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stdlibs appear to be conveniently defined with them
< 1320414888 314806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, note that the assignment was in python, so it involved FFI as well
< 1320414894 877837 :saahil!~saahil@49.244.147.123 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320414917 992544 :saahil!~saahil@49.244.147.123 PART :#esoteric
< 1320414918 346712 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put a custom bignum implementation in one of the weekly exercises of the C course; and other assorted curiosities, like Blowfish in the one which suggested ROT-13 for "encryption"; and no-one ever commented on them at all. :(
< 1320414923 376932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wait, you used /C/'s qsort to answer a Python question?
< 1320414941 109097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a sign of overengineering in protest at the question
< 1320414954 753736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes because the FFI (ctype I think? Or some other FFI bit of python, forgot which one) capabilities weren't blacklisted
< 1320414956 942975 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aww.
< 1320414971 272511 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's also/instead a sign of too much free time, perhaps.
< 1320414971 779441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I was bored when I did that. Got to have some fun
< 1320414975 99403 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does curl do persistent connections?
< 1320414980 86831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION compare [1; 0; 7; 3; 7; 4; 1; 8; 2; 5] [1; 0; 7; 3; 7; 4; 1; 8; 2; 3]
< 1320414995 430392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much you can do to catch out people who are converting to an integer in a list-of-digits comparison question
< 1320415009 258369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are either side of OCaml's MAXINT, which should
< 1320415039 203571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the students who fail on that testcase will get feedback telling them that that's the testcase they failed on, which might clue them in as to what they're doing wrong)
< 1320415056 516976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there was another python assignment where I handed in two versions: A pure python one and a cython one. Then pointed out that python was very unsuitable for a game AI using alpha-beta pruning based on the maximum ply-depths that could be achieved by the respective versions.
< 1320415104 17731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for interactive use that is
< 1320415112 752980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was like 5 and 7, or such
< 1320415168 222227 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, are you writing this thing to try and fill some byzantine rule that says you have to be completely objective about your marking? I wouldn't put it past you :)
< 1320415189 996365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, I'm writing it because marking thousands of submissions by hand would take far too long
< 1320415199 671170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get very boring, and I'd probably make mistakes
< 1320415199 918205 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's much more boring
< 1320415232 587535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how many students are taking that class?
< 1320415236 321999 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if they get testcase feedback, can't they just hardcode your testcases like anagolf? :)
< 1320415244 962643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: around 100
< 1320415251 72947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320415273 517657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they get feedback on some but not all of the test cases
< 1320415290 219844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was inspired by anagolf
< 1320415290 338926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. if their program works on the first n but fails on the n+1th and n is large enough, they don't get told what they did wrong)
< 1320415290 910409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite a lot
< 1320415335 738402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :django hell is a scary place.
< 1320415399 685058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm why is tree not installed by defalt in ubuntu?
< 1320415417 323390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my marking script handled the change to DST correctly
< 1320415429 889859 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder whether downloading in parallel will pay off
< 1320415432 434277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I put extra effort into making sure it did timezone math right)
< 1320415440 507571 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, HTTP pipelining should take care of any overhead for the small files
< 1320415456 151944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if they are from different hosts, sure
< 1320415464 933441 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not
< 1320415483 920615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, iirc aptitude downloads in parallel if the packages come from different hosts, like the main repo mirror and a PPA
< 1320415499 597820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably worrying too much about this package manager's download experience :) but I sure do hate every existing package manager's handling of that
< 1320415500 521690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1320415503 639068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in serial if from a single host
< 1320415504 385242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To: 	. <.>
< 1320415507 688787 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure pacman doesn't use persistent http requests at all
< 1320415513 3403 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a noticeable pause between downloading tiny tiny files
< 1320415516 745075 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful
< 1320415518 746436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilariously, Evolution linked the second .
< 1320415532 971695 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: eh, that sounds rare enough for me to not care
< 1320415545 489889 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the most likely scenario would be getting some binary packages from another repo that depend on stuff in the main report
< 1320415546 656526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :repo
< 1320415550 296404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, the main mirror I use maxes out my connection anyway
< 1320415552 677192 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll just group by repo so it does it as two concentrated downloads
< 1320415560 317105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320415562 116451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: upgrading some packages from -proposed and some from -security?
< 1320415568 924650 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll probably do the equivalent of "apt-get update" in very-parallel,t hough
< 1320415573 484363 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,t /, t/
< 1320415578 757913 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's a large number of small files
< 1320415580 357044 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latency dominates
< 1320415593 694399 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was rather happy that the phone alarm clock, when setting an alarm across the DST boundary on Saturday evening, managed to correctly calculate the "HH:MM before next alarm" info-text it shows.
< 1320415598 17685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well it was for update, I think I have the bzr PPA and got an upgrade to that and to the main repo at the same time, thus noticed this
< 1320415628 382965 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably just encapsulate this so I can add fancy parallel logic later :P
< 1320415630 682531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pipelining is a must.
< 1320415635 220341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1320415692 553564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if you have multiple cores I would think utilizing parallel would generally payoff
< 1320415696 136683 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll be pleased to know I'm using INTERCAL version numbers as the pathological test case for my version handling in my package manager
< 1320415699 394879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the program itself is written to utilize multiple cores.
< 1320415702 526265 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...for a download?
< 1320415708 175350 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE CPUS MORE BROADBAND
< 1320415708 592978 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh... no.
< 1320415708 895166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you told me that already
< 1320415714 441480 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no I didn't
< 1320415716 615345 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not recently
< 1320415721 81295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you did with inst
< 1320415727 272625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: THE CPU ISN'T ASKING FAST ENOUGH
< 1320415727 421349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm assuming the package manager's basedo n that
< 1320415730 308999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on that
< 1320415734 568454 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ASK CONCURRENTLY
< 1320415746 632694 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not
< 1320415748 942137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"may I please have bytes" * 4
< 1320415751 768233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : MORE CPUS MORE BROADBAND <-- only in uplink.
< 1320415762 724034 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, inst didn't actually do any version number handling
< 1320415769 577399 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have to decide which version numbers are bigger than others
< 1320415789 279227 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it can handle INTERCAL versions perfectly, it'll just need to take them in reversed form (as an internal field; the user will still see the true version number in the UI)
< 1320415795 241078 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :component-reversed, that is
< 1320415801 522575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320415844 106303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Debian's version is to use version sort (i.e. contiguous numbers sorting as numbers, otherwise sorting alphabetically), with ~ being lexicographically negative
< 1320415850 469910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, 0.1~alpha1 sorts before 0.1
< 1320415852 471856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait isn't there some program that have the version counting down?
< 1320415852 856175 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: left
< 1320415856 135802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but after 0.05)
< 1320415874 819206 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That can be represented as -n
< 1320415876 966038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, perhaps it actually sorts before 0.05 too
< 1320415877 584750 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka pren
< 1320415883 832680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you have the 0.9 0.10 problem
< 1320415899 828755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm
< 1320415899 881404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading 0s on a component part would imply it's meant to be interpreted as a decimal, though…
< 1320415913 915584 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to do something like: Map minus sign to "pre"; split into components (on "."); sort components as list, where each individual component is done numerabetically
< 1320415919 710905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will make a package that uses fractions for the version number
< 1320415921 660668 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, actually
< 1320415930 193386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like foo-3/4
< 1320415938 198061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or foo-1/3
< 1320415943 64837 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to do something like: Map minus sign to "pre"; split into components (on "."); sort components as list, where each individual component is done numerically, with any letter on the end becoming the first digit
< 1320415947 923776 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... something like that
< 1320415951 764603 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nix gets it almost right, anyway
< 1320415959 404335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: distinguish 0.5-1 from 0.5.-1
< 1320415960 997558 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: point is, 3.1a is older than 3.1
< 1320415968 371348 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what the heck is 0.5-1?
< 1320415972 667162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ooh another idea for screwy version number: foo-|1+2i|
< 1320415974 166660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: 0.5, patchlevel 1
< 1320415974 219158 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a package revision number thing
< 1320415979 734826 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't part of the version in my system
< 1320415988 539903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might be part of someone else's version numbre
< 1320415989 967774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*number
< 1320416031 516744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by?
< 1320416044 504487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320416063 349203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have two different spambots atm; one posts coherently, the other is a markovbot
< 1320416064 47714 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version numbers of the form e^(in), with 'n' incrementing -- because it's all cyclic, man. Far out.
< 1320416070 318933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they both have pretty similar content apart from that
< 1320416077 644488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to wonder if one spambot is using the other as input
< 1320416083 301404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320416108 125529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice
< 1320416133 545568 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320416168 467270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, problem is distros are going to just use n for the version number there
< 1320416174 528264 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by?
< 1320416176 663296 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :706)  Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by?
< 1320416181 521863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you have to make that impossible somehow
< 1320416196 933877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320416202 983284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's really 
< 1320416209 234222 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but that's less baffling
< 1320416229 233638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, people know it's me and Keymaker who deal with the spam, and Keymaker rarely comes here
< 1320416234 367439 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well... you could do the TeX "converges into an irrational number" thing, except make it converge as (sin x)/x (take the minima and maxima) or something, so that it wobbles up and down, not monotonically like "always add one digit" does.
< 1320416235 184352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a hard inference that I was quoting a spambot
< 1320416250 155181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, good idea
< 1320416274 546903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian got caught out beautifully by C-INTERCAL 1.28
< 1320416285 421006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they used the version number literally before realising what they'd done wrong
< 1320416294 225549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1320416297 879570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it should have been sanitised to 0.28.1 at that point)
< 1320416302 472485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how did they solve it?
< 1320416304 261330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but they didn't catch it)
< 1320416309 812414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the next version number was 29:0.2
< 1320416312 535090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*29:0.29
< 1320416313 228023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320416324 454913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a complete abuse of the epoch field, and the packaging guidelines specifically say not to do that
< 1320416329 967112 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is why you use Kitten's package manager; you can just define the ordering version as a /function/ of the actual version
< 1320416336 119218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, what options did they have at that point?
< 1320416345 670244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1:0.29 would be correct
< 1320416348 629224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320416356 980823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps 1:0.29.0
< 1320416364 534758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why didn't they do that then hm
< 1320416367 230636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even 1:29.0
< 1320416368 765961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask me
< 1320416373 516066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1320416386 233650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was the clc numbering now again?
< 1320416411 774591 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: order_version = reverse (version_components version)
< 1320416414 734992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just like regular numbering; it sorts lexicographically by component
< 1320416422 415076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see???? SO MANY ADVANTAGES
< 1320416428 474392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the components can potentially be negative
< 1320416431 282211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320416432 3098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what if you don't know Haskell?
< 1320416433 879564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320416443 607348 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you ever /seen/ a Debian package?
< 1320416489 573693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've even /made/ a Debian package
< 1320416497 130539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Haskell knowledge required
< 1320416514 289778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do you install ghci on Gentoo, where you can't bootstrap it with a binary?
< 1320416516 778508 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good thing my quoted snippet wasn't Haskell either, then
< 1320416524 576732 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but seriously, Debian packages are impossible to read
< 1320416533 363063 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have "made" one with automated tools, but they're unmaintainable binary blobs themselvse
< 1320416533 921231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't have much problems reading them
< 1320416535 312816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :themselves
< 1320416540 129766 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that people actually have to maintain them
< 1320416545 855854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, they aren't binary blobs
< 1320416548 2711 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I take it you've never looked at the gcc package's debian directory
< 1320416551 664010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're binary, but it's just a standard tarball
< 1320416559 25865 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hurr what is hyperbole
< 1320416570 838215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps arball
< 1320416600 467047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I deleted my gcc Debian source package as it was taking up too much space
< 1320416676 828249 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (#)
< 1320416677 204166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword #
< 1320416677 444873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts C# :: Char# -> Char
< 1320416677 497123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts D# :: Double# -> Double
< 1320416681 918802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, how do you install ghci on Gentoo, where you can't bootstrap it with a binary? <-- you bootstrap it with a binary
< 1320416684 67456 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right.
< 1320416725 385885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or even use a binary package version. They provide that for a few things, like openoffice, firefox, thunderbird, ghc. Where compiling takes ages and/or is a PITA
< 1320416764 590391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems something so wrong about binary packages in Gentoo
< 1320416789 343435 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think http-enumerator is my best bet
< 1320416792 992326 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it has 389573489573894578934578934534789545 dependencies
< 1320416798 514509 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320416817 554227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, you have to start out with a boot strap environment too. Which is a binary download. So you can build your own environment from that point
< 1320416861 740247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely assumed you bootstrapped it from your previous OS
< 1320416876 686034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nah, that is LFS
< 1320416889 789937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wasn't someone talking in here a while back about a script that downloaded the book about LFS and parsed it for the commands it needed to run?
< 1320416902 424854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it used OCR, that'd be even more hilarious
< 1320416921 529458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gentoo gives you a manual that tells you  to run fdisk and mkfs and so on as required, then mount it somewhere and unpack a stage3.tar.gz with some flags to preserve permissions properly
< 1320416925 541056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you chroot into that
< 1320416937 274308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run various commands
< 1320416943 568050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually done from a livecd
< 1320416956 494376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be done from another installed linux system, sure
< 1320416971 790747 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, wasn't someone talking in here a while back about a script that downloaded the book about LFS and parsed it for the commands it needed to run?
< 1320416972 369204 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320416979 884529 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually "official"
< 1320416988 373228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the book is some HTML pages, no need for OCR
< 1320417010 580374 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's docbook, i think
< 1320417024 28462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe the html pages are generated from that
< 1320417026 373184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possible
< 1320417057 280706 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpRedirect :: (MonadIO m, Failure HttpException m) => Request m -> (Status -> ResponseHeaders -> Iteratee ByteString m a) -> Manager -> Iteratee ByteString m a
< 1320417061 139657 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoo boy
< 1320417077 405809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks annoying
< 1320417136 646505 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what does?
< 1320417141 355852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type
< 1320417142 163997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, btw I'm pretty sure you can get wget to pipeline requests (or at least reuse the connection) by giving it several files on the command line
< 1320417149 651091 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm sure curl does that too
< 1320417151 706720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember doing so at some point
< 1320417159 132670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been recursive mode though
< 1320417650 524437 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320417650 638534 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = attermptToStopAnIdiotFromDying
< 1320417652 837498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, I now hold the last discworld book in my hand :)
< 1320417664 377487 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last, eh
< 1320417670 481386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest
< 1320417672 535583 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's gotta be close to
< 1320417693 709748 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder when he'll take the plunge
< 1320417845 410038 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320417989 418754 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/HihB
< 1320417994 610177 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am getting quite bored of typing n
< 1320418062 481918 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1320418120 726210 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This is why people are wary of dependencies:
< 1320418122 157672 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: the following (2) packages will be installed by pacman: haskell-utf8-string haskell-zlib
< 1320418122 308423 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching AUR...
< 1320418122 371617 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targets (32): haskell-semigroups-0.8-1 haskell-primitive-0.3.1-18 haskell-tagged-0.2.3.1-1 haskell-largeword-1.0.1-1 haskell-entropy-0.2.1-1 haskell-zlib-bindings-0.0.1-1 haskell-vector-0.7.1-18 haskell-cryptohash-0.7.3-1 haskell-base-unicode-symbols-0.2.2.1-1 haskell-dlist-0.5-18 haskell-cryptocipher-0.2.14-3 haskell-crypto-api-0.6.4-4 haskell-cereal-0.3.3.0-18 haskell-hashable-1.1.2.1-1 haskell-zlib-enum-0.2.1-22 haskell-tls-extra-0.3.1-4 haskell-tls-
< 1320418122 424228 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.7.2-4 haskell-monad-control-0.2.0.3-1 haskell-http-types-0.6.5.1-3 haskell-failure-0.1.0.1-18 haskell-enumerator-0.4.14-1 haskell-data-default-0.3.0-1 haskell-cprng-aes-0.2.1-23 haskell-certificate-0.9.1-4 haskell-case-insensitive-0.3.0.1-1 haskell-blaze-builder-enumerator-0.2.0.3-1 haskell-blaze-builder-0.3.0.1-18 haskell-base64-bytestring-0.1.0.3-1 haskell-attoparsec-enumerator-0.2.0.4-22 haskell-attoparsec-0.9.1.2-1 haskell-asn1-data-0.5.1-22 haske
< 1320418127 165070 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ll-http-enumerator-0.7.0-4
< 1320418146 436211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are those dependencies needed?
< 1320418176 789514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do things, presumably
< 1320418207 538509 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH you're unlikely to get me to agree with your "it's easier to rewrite any library than to use it" stance either, so it's probably pointless expressing it
< 1320418224 773645 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1320418240 443985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: "any library" is wrong, there
< 1320418249 674635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on exactly what you're doing
< 1320418283 730664 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like trifecta's dependency list
< 1320418297 110967 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: At least this one is flattened out
< 1320418308 451552 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With trifecta you at least have the guarantee that 90% of them are by the same person
< 1320418360 755711 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been sitting at this install prompt for ten minutes wondering whether to say y or not
< 1320418371 761548 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where'd you get those dependencies from
< 1320418386 907980 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-http-enumerator
< 1320418412 117506 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a simpler API than the HTTP package and I can't figure out how to do streaming downloads with the latter
< 1320418488 456798 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But
< 1320418490 588170 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many dependencies
< 1320418553 830300 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover, I now hold the last discworld book in my hand :)
< 1320418555 907171 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... how...
< 1320418558 529655 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do...
< 1320418565 186630 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Sweden have book rockets.
< 1320418571 749339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh right, I thought you meant those dependencies were on utf8-string and zlib
< 1320418574 197542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was wondering why
< 1320418582 43683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, from utf-8 and zlib
< 1320418588 29178 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320418601 223864 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you order a book, and half an hour later a missile slams into your front garden and there's a book in it.
< 1320418647 979148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: no
< 1320418674 73781 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're not Swedish
< 1320418717 589207 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manchester is in Sweden, isn't it?
< 1320418765 931793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in Manchester
< 1320418791 272116 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies	asn1-data (≥0.5.1 & <0.7), attoparsec (≥0.8.0.2 & <0.10), attoparsec-enumerator (≥0.2.0.4 & <0.3), base (4.*), base64-bytestring (0.1.*), blaze-builder (≥0.2.1 & <0.4), blaze-builder-enumerator (0.2.*), bytestring (≥0.9.1.4 & <0.10), case-insensitive (≥0.2 & <0.4), certificate (≥0.7 & <1.1), containers (≥0.2 & <0.5), cprng-aes (0.2.*), data-default (0.3.*), enumerator (≥0.4.9 & <0.5), failure (0.1.*), http-types (0.6.*), m
< 1320418791 553083 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :onad-control (0.2.*), network (≥2.2.1 & <2.2.3), network-bytestring (0.1.3.*), tls (≥0.8.1 & <0.9), tls-extra (≥0.3 & <0.5), transformers (0.2.*), utf8-string (≥0.3.4 & <0.4), zlib-enum (0.2.*) or
< 1320418791 606222 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asn1-data (≥0.5.1 & <0.7), attoparsec (≥0.8.0.2 & <0.10), attoparsec-enumerator (≥0.2.0.4 & <0.3), base (4.*), base64-bytestring (0.1.*), blaze-builder (≥0.2.1 & <0.4), blaze-builder-enumerator (0.2.*), bytestring (≥0.9.1.4 & <0.10), case-insensitive (≥0.2 & <0.4), certificate (≥0.7 & <1.1), containers (≥0.2 & <0.5), cprng-aes (0.2.*), data-default (0.3.*), enumerator (≥0.4.9 & <0.5), failure (0.1.*), http-types (0.6.*), monad-control
< 1320418795 290204 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0.2.*), network (2.3.*), tls (≥0.8.1 & <0.9), tls-extra (≥0.3 & <0.5), transformers (0.2.*), utf8-string (≥0.3.4 & <0.4), zlib-enum (0.2.*)
< 1320418802 725197 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Challenge: Figure out what essential difference the "or" is expressing
< 1320418809 581779 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but you are in Sweden?
< 1320418834 847316 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: network
< 1320418854 620196 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wow, skillz
< 1320418858 212350 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't figure it out at all
< 1320418864 787776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: where did I imply that?
< 1320418878 620888 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, you never /contradicted/ it.
< 1320418888 883615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still haven't
< 1320418989 808813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... log out of nickserv for a minute
< 1320418998 174970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: why?
< 1320419005 659093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a suspicious request
< 1320419012 279967 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I can do nefarious things, duh
< 1320419014 515831 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, whois you
< 1320419025 211042 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: target not found: haskell-data-default=0.3.0
< 1320419032 306078 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Bonus: The package is broken
< 1320419038 368497 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: This is why I use cabal-install
< 1320419047 97715 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This is the first time it's broken :P
< 1320419056 306517 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, it broke once for me and that was enough
< 1320419070 395601 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have I mentioned that Kitten's package manager completely avoids this problem
< 1320419085 719086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, those are specific version number ranges
< 1320419096 268158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if it can't solve Sudoku, it's no good at solving version clashes
< 1320419102 656585 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Because of this hackage2arch business (or whatever it was called), people just make packages all willy-nilly and then when somebody updates, if nobody else does, the dependers get screwed
< 1320419109 572795 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: (I guess)
< 1320419119 475952 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Actually no, all the AUR packages are managed by one group
< 1320419131 396053 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But they're slower than the core repos at dependencies, apparently
< 1320419139 300167 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they end up depending on older versions than the core repos have to offer
< 1320419140 605815 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've had intra-AUR-conflicts
< 1320419149 114227 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, sucks to be you
< 1320419159 459777 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have I mentioned Kitten avoids this problem
< 1320419167 346710 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What prevents anybody from uploading their own haskell-this-is-my-library-haha?
< 1320419170 804232 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320419176 251398 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what, AUR?
< 1320419176 772232 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Let me know when it's done and working
< 1320419177 11494 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing
< 1320419181 569609 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Exactly :-P
< 1320419192 525200 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: if it can't solve Sudoku, it's no good at solving version clashes
< 1320419201 60403 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, you just don't need to solve them in the first place
< 1320419208 372506 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, those are specific version number ranges
< 1320419209 363528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not
< 1320419214 311263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see package versioning policy
< 1320419278 218408 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package versioning policy needs a way of specifying a version range that allows for adding new (non-instance) things to a module
< 1320419280 498284 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm, I appear to be relatively fucked in terms of getting this library working at this juncture
< 1320419290 112692 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hence cabal-install
< 1320419320 548655 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-ansi-terminal 0.5.5-18
< 1320419320 683626 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-deepseq 1.1.0.2-2.1
< 1320419320 739731 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-mtl 2.0.1.0-3.1
< 1320419320 739906 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-network 2.3.0.2-2.1
< 1320419320 740014 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-parsec 3.1.1-2.1
< 1320419321 228162 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-text 0.11.0.5-2.1
< 1320419322 991769 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-transformers 0.2.2.0-3.1
< 1320419333 826114 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's a whole... two libraries I would have to install!! Also everything would break horribly.
< 1320419374 485044 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things might not break at all depending on the precise situation
< 1320419390 163256 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, if they would: go back to the wild west and cabal-install everything
< 1320419391 841401 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Let me rephrase that for you: I might get lucky :)
< 1320419416 723840 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more a case of not getting unlucky
< 1320419424 611646 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW, re: "Let me know when it's done and working", what do you think I'm attempting to install dependencies for my work on right now :)
< 1320419455 316289 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're working on it, great; let me know when it's done and working
< 1320419464 331514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe I won't
< 1320419602 403100 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320420051 617600 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320420061 205700 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@70-59-41-246.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320420098 550211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320420101 940056 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1320420260 964420 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320420458 336793 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320420458 389486 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320420458 389621 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320420851 99403 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89BB4.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320421215 162601 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky isolate]$ cabal install ansi-terminal http-enumerator
< 1320421217 363079 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I blame you
< 1320421220 546816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to wait twenty years
< 1320421703 228234 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way Kate Beaton draws babies may be the greatest work of art the world has yet known
< 1320421857 614634 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-18-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320421892 519153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :33554432
< 1320421943 701435 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320421946 370403 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1320421953 713244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320421989 269592 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god no matter how many times I read Hark! A Vagrant it never gets old.
< 1320422071 821380 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320422497 285038 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320422526 618594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1320422528 790252 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1320423983 350574 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, the Darwin Awards exclude people with mental disorders.
< 1320423989 310595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320424006 133557 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that basically makes it completely explicit that it's all just a front for being sneering assholes.
< 1320424016 452785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320424105 909692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: To be fair, it wouldn't exactly make them less of a front for being sneering assholes if they included those people.
< 1320424129 140404 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're kind of fucked whatever they do, which is usually a Sign(tm).
< 1320424147 182451 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, erm, the premise that it's for people who removed themselves from the gene pool due to poor judgement would at least be /sound/.
< 1320424163 726203 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure.
< 1320424246 153566 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found it quite amusing when the woman who runs the site herself nearly DA'ed herself and acted like it was fine because it was a near miss.
< 1320424338 426757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320424452 277989 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1320424675 401840 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  (I'm not really sure what that explains but nor am I sure what I'm explaining, so it cancels out.)
< 1320424678 96247 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :707)  (I'm not really sure what that explains but nor am I sure what I'm explaining, so it cancels out.)
< 1320424989 30666 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Friends don't let friends Comic Sans. | EPL evening school assignments! http://tinyurl.com/5stnu5n | It's the end of an era | RIP John McCarthy) | TO SHREDS!) |  http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320425015 254814 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunked_transfer_encoding
< 1320425016 716914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on!
< 1320425021 603597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I meant to implement a progress bar now?
< 1320425065 443245 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress.hs: StatusCodeException 403 (Chunk "Scripts should use an informative User-Agent string with contact information, or they may be IP-blocked without notice.\n" Empty)
< 1320425072 790982 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow Wikipedia, that's very impolite.
< 1320425079 361934 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can use codu.org logs as a test URLspam location right
< 1320425090 966752 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, I guess?
< 1320425096 841683 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx
< 1320425132 777212 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320425212 840569 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, have I mentioned that I wrote my folio essay for English on how Comic Sans was awful.
< 1320425225 81243 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Highest-five
< 1320425243 408786 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it played a large part in getting me a B.
< 1320425263 960209 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would have gotten you an A? *trollface*
< 1320425269 457552 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU HAD WRITTEN IT IN COMIC SANS
< 1320425309 139676 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, the folio was only worth ~20% of the total marks and it was divided into two essays.
< 1320425521 91880 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky isolate]$ curl -I http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-10-19
< 1320425521 259185 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 OK
< 1320425521 320377 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:51:55 GMT
< 1320425521 373006 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server: Apache/2.2.21 (Debian)
< 1320425521 373200 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.8-2
< 1320425522 96508 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vary: Accept-Encoding
< 1320425524 87423 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
< 1320425528 843658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's with the lack of Content-Length; why do you hate America
< 1320425544 920921 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREW AMERICA
< 1320425571 664914 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But more specifically, it generates the HTML and spits it out live *shrugs*
< 1320425578 925744 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was too lazy to buffer just to count.
< 1320425601 462059 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320425621 389191 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, it's node.js, isn't it :P
< 1320425629 894851 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.
< 1320425632 942306 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Land of the "what the fuck is abstraction, you're dealing with HTTP yourself".
< 1320425654 37492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, the raw logs get it right :P
< 1320425655 806854 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh ... no?
< 1320425665 739752 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the glogbot rsync stuff seems to be 'broken' again.
< 1320425671 824127 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Uhh ... no?
< 1320425675 472607 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs
< 1320425684 377542 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, no?
< 1320425691 863958 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Uhh ... no?
< 1320425698 104630 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: E_WORKSFORME
< 1320425699 586059 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO EXPRSES >_<
< 1320425702 717100 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh— no?
< 1320425713 592446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_:  Land of the "what the fuck is abstraction, you're dealing with HTTP yourself". // no.
< 1320425720 441270 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs
< 1320425736 913081 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can hardly call node.js' API high-level :P
< 1320425858 51238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Node's API for /what/? For actually running an HTTP server? Or for just generating pages? 'cuz the latter is, y'know, CGI.
< 1320425884 180574 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, I don't think you're meant to use its CGI stuff if you want to be Best Practices Web Scale (tm) :P
< 1320425914 876546 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yeah, I definitely need a separate web server to gen logs now and then.
< 1320425933 563906 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not saying it's required, I'm just saying that it's hardly a typical use of Node :P
< 1320426007 756209 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You're totally right that stalker mode should have a talk function.
< 1320426011 52376 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be epic.
< 1320426015 183623 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320426028 525084 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : An anonymous coward says: WHY HALLO THAR
< 1320426036 900292 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Don't build it into glogbot :P
< 1320426047 111640 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be MORE stable than clog :P
< 1320426069 862214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :* glogannoyingchatterbot has joined #esoteric \  WORST IMPLEMENTATION EVER? \ * glogannoyingchatterbot has parted #esoteric
< 1320426089 220821 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would be sooo hard to add another bot :P
< 1320426096 930 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have a premade library for that or anything.
< 1320426114 342606 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. -n would solve that
< 1320426135 910160 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are maybe two channels in the history of IRC that are -n :P
< 1320426194 611798 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: -minecraft is one of 'em :P
< 1320426204 946485 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is +s but -n :P
< 1320426210 59093 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone can talk, but NOBODY CAN KNOW OF ITS EXISTENCE.
< 1320426297 743980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I hope your mother regrets having birthed you. :P
< 1320426312 872248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(did the :P help there)
< 1320426317 889220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm testing out the theory of :P
< 1320426355 318416 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) is the "I desperately need to be punched in the face several times" one.
< 1320426359 569655 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's theory of :P is that :P is valid for all circumstances :P :P :P
< 1320426367 413139 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: what about :>
< 1320426375 281173 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Post-punching.
< 1320426381 874748 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? CakeProphet
< 1320426387 524779 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:>
< 1320426403 278525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (:>)
< 1320426403 750116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence (:>) :: Seq a -> a -> ViewR a
< 1320426413 76205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome.
< 1320426432 514378 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that operator looked familiar.
< 1320426460 418028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Sequence a monad?
< 1320426466 591943 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@70-59-41-246.hlrn.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320426471 623773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as [a] right?
< 1320426488 538049 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Rharaeraerhgaehwegh why does your HTTP server not send Content-Length /only/ to the Haskell lib
< 1320426491 377035 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl sees it just fine
< 1320426513 491746 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1320426513 816513 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and it's self-modifying techniques." stop immobilizes and disables you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace? come to see you back again
< 1320426523 970878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: lul
< 1320426562 754150 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think this library is actually TRYING to get a chunked response whenever possible :P
< 1320426603 878110 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your bot doesn't let me spam its name in privmsg and get fungotspeak
< 1320426631 315212 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does.
< 1320426632 521194 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just did it.
< 1320426636 539977 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: to. why, this is for you guys are a lot
< 1320426636 996903 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going, tough one. if we solve it,... i know...
< 1320426651 692589 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot fungot fungot
< 1320426652 231615 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave? fnord 06:22, 29, no. 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13, 1(::**) ...bad insn!
< 1320426663 173778 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1320426663 480999 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1320426670 334568 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style sms
< 1320426670 842135 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
< 1320426676 902962 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot fungot fungot
< 1320426677 526156 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i want to sent mesages. but u'l talk
< 1320426712 831256 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck
< 1320426713 274204 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673)
< 1320426717 701150 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: That sword alone can't ____, solve for ____.
< 1320426718 131109 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: your name is, i am just as confused. emerging from the trials in the brooding. enjoy a bevverage to me or about my fuckin manners for the roof. you have given yourself a very official?
< 1320426728 901531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wrong! You have three guesses remaining.
< 1320426729 455203 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: john, the uncarved minitablet. john carved this tablet at the request. it's just a wrapper for your private reading material later
< 1320426733 885052 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wrong! You have two guesses remaining.
< 1320426734 287367 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: really, it it is pretty conceivable that i was about to get blown up! :o)
< 1320426738 157233 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wrong! You have one guess remaining.
< 1320426738 593492 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'.
< 1320426745 534134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wrong! You have no guesses remaining. Have a nice day.
< 1320426756 237583 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it shut up like it's supposed to and all.
< 1320426764 623207 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does cakeprophet mean that he can't spam fungot's name because of the shutup
< 1320426764 861147 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: enter name. and a whole other issue.
< 1320426775 410674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes you are correct!
< 1320426779 709607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job! :>
< 1320426782 616893 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1320426850 124455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think :> is this: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr8cphyXGf1qmiocn.jpg
< 1320426935 958691 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good picture
< 1320427059 118514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy... monqy
< 1320427060 627498 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy
< 1320427061 618667 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix my code
< 1320427066 433567 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320427080 23800 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it broken
< 1320427087 936835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320427096 794101 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTUALLY it may be: SOMEONE ELSE'S CODE.
< 1320427099 470220 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's FIND OUT.
< 1320427386 268815 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw try runhaskelling this to be really unnerved by your terminal: http://sprunge.us/IhEb
< 1320427391 756009 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will ask... whence... crahrahchters
< 1320427645 180178 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow unnnerving
< 1320427700 60300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it is like a ghost story...... for your terminale.
< 1320427805 625185 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHYYY DO YOU CHUNK
< 1320427817 535845 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Dah chunky chunks.
< 1320427823 317073 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :W;Yhy
< 1320427859 374225 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH, those are /record fielsd/
< 1320427863 885438 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly this library makes 10x as much sense.
< 1320427901 371402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320428044 97774 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Try now.
< 1320428050 25120 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What did you do :P
< 1320428060 145177 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Made it buffer and send all at once I think :P
< 1320428075 404444 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...but this issue is with the raw logs, which you already send content-lengths for...
< 1320428079 988320 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not whenever I use Haskell.
< 1320428088 987492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally detecting whether I'm using Haskell or not and punishing me for it.
< 1320428090 559587 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: OH.
< 1320428099 170616 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I thought it was the cooked logs :P
< 1320428107 148778 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was before I realised that'd never work :P
< 1320428111 493490 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testin' progress bars here, y'understand :P
< 1320428118 978077 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well Idonno why it's chunked.
< 1320428134 94262 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect this HTTP library is trying to make it be chunked for ~PERFORMANCE~ >_>
< 1320428141 681525 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chunk chunk
< 1320428219 429961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM
< 1320428220 454448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m [b]
< 1320428315 711551 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :status418, statusImATeapot :: Status
< 1320428315 874196 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a teapot
< 1320428326 471949 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/http-types/0.6.6/doc/html/Network-HTTP-Types.html#v:status418
< 1320428368 158821 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently for real
< 1320428387 164994 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's part of an April Fool's RFC.
< 1320428397 538540 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320428408 409703 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol.
< 1320428434 483138 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just so cute that they actually gave it
< 1320428435 145954 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a name
< 1320428438 390355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a serious library
< 1320428440 74919 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))))))
< 1320428440 877443 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320428470 473106 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Status 418 is, in fact, 418 I'm a teapot.
< 1320428481 994317 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HTCPCP server is a teapot; the corresponding entity may be short and stout.
< 1320428482 565813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/aristidb/http-types/commit/ec22a919f865f68d3da39ccb75f5d78b331606b2
< 1320428484 409324 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good! patriot
< 1320428501 729674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:40  CakeProphet: this is a really hot look for a stronger! this is so outrageous. hell fucking yes a few more things we can deploy but some things we can  deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can
< 1320428502 295503 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakePrsw}a{~e^is@]i[iped_a/The-Prophet-Wiza:CakeProphet: what the hell was that? but from what i understand if it is applicable in any sphere, with oceans, trees, networks of pipes, the april issue of the serious business application.
< 1320428503 541336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you mbbx6spp. good person.
< 1320428506 714100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : deploy but some thing we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things wee can deploy but some things we can deploy bu
< 1320428509 588815 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Another corruption bug
< 1320428523 452701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa there fungot
< 1320428523 692829 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and so it would continue. second, you could have a 8ody again and his little blinking in and out the back in case. you never know with that crazy. conveniently, you can watch what happened right here on the monitor has not lost his copy to save her!
< 1320428555 310587 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how fungot never like
< 1320428555 579821 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: but, there are imps around, but you don't have a very exciting 24 hours or so. you say you are only here to deliver a message and then i'll put in the hallway. beyond a lot
< 1320428555 993387 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashes
< 1320428559 990039 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never permanently fucks up beyond repair
< 1320428567 390784 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always "goes wack for half a message"
< 1320428576 689086 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is designed for reliable applications.
< 1320428578 62924 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-98: durable
< 1320428579 190509 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye
< 1320428579 761896 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1320428588 162968 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1320428588 547120 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and it just might be all three possible codes, yielding a radically exactly the same of you.
< 1320428606 307987 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lol'd in real life.
< 1320428616 54494 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which part
< 1320428622 247152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yielding a radically exactly the same you.
< 1320428625 656302 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "yielding radically exactly the same" is a direct qote
< 1320428639 697260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log yielding a radically exactly the same you.
< 1320428642 957959 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: from what
< 1320428644 348861 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1320428644 592460 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002986
< 1320428644 645158 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1320428646 518811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320428652 625678 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-04.txt:17:43:42:  yielding a radically exactly the same you.
< 1320428653 420346 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, ah yes that does sound familiar.
< 1320428655 1763 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You get the BETA (3+1+1+1), now yielding a radically different hash value with the Scrabble function.
< 1320428655 132366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say a radically exactly the same value."
< 1320428666 814697 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C is soo ugly
< 1320428673 21319 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still better than C++
< 1320428707 732141 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- a goon
< 1320428732 566672 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320428740 48533 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[("Date","Fri, 04 Nov 2011 17:44:55 GMT"),("Server","Apache/2.2.21 (Fedora)"),("Last-Modified","Tue, 25 Oct 2011 05:21:24 GMT"),("ETag","\"6a6180d-492e2ed-4b018b5e17d00\""),("Accept-Ranges","bytes"),("Content-Length","76735213"),("Content-Type","application/x-bzip2")]
< 1320428740 215700 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY, THAT WORKS
< 1320428744 423179 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: friendship headers
< 1320428767 649176 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup
< 1320428768 847171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b
< 1320428771 313547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm having no such luck with Django 1.4
< 1320428780 251659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I shouldn't use pre-alpha releases of giant enterprisey things.
< 1320428806 4883 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe don't use python
< 1320428829 493059 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know where i can download a bunch of really small files
< 1320428835 66961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 100K
< 1320428840 35805 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or less
< 1320428908 415395 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the internet.
< 1320428913 596363 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1320428935 549860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6554331/Papers_from_Philosophical_Transactions_of_the_Royal_Society__fro
< 1320428938 549103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe?
< 1320428944 973272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may be too large.
< 1320428946 49653 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu bloat:
< 1320428950 214611 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hello-1.3.tar.gz          23-May-1993 03:00   86K
< 1320428950 347541 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hello-2.7.tar.gz          28-Mar-2011 18:44  586K
< 1320428985 65360 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6
< 1320429002 496586 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU hello now includes most of gnulib.
< 1320429046 411392 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320429057 393213 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I need some kind of task manager to do this
< 1320429058 455216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I love how django is telling me a template file doesn't exist.
< 1320429066 16626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I go to check on my filesystem if it exists at that path
< 1320429066 809541 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this package manager's ui is going to be so sleek, do you have any idea
< 1320429068 496639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, oh look, it does.
< 1320429086 930676 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: run this program and you will begin to have idea: http://sprunge.us/IhEb
< 1320429097 487241 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect spook program (TM)
< 1320429170 742064 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1320429189 438858 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate IB
< 1320429205 559429 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how nooga has been fully reduced to just talking about his OS X development life.
< 1320429222 871719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: God damn.
< 1320429234 614487 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sleekest of progress bars. the SLEEKEST.
< 1320429237 770935 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: at least I have a trusted, permanent enemy
< 1320429242 70241 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: :}
< 1320429250 255922 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1320429302 566277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw don't ^C that program, you don't get your cursor back :P
< 1320429337 334250 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reset" says wut?
< 1320429359 167737 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: How do I shot web and/or install System.Console.ANSI?
< 1320429383 217615 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Search "ansi-terminal" in apt-cache
< 1320429387 561644 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If recent enough Debian there'll be a -dev package
< 1320429402 917120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :libghc-ansi-terminal-dev did it for me.
< 1320429410 158167 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sid, biatch, sid!
< 1320429431 920545 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That progress bar has a similar effect on me to w3m's image support.
< 1320429446 675677 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE895C4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320429453 531722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes me stare in horror and wonder how you can even fit that many pixels into a glyph.
< 1320429482 59955 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It phails hardcore for me, I'm betting I'm in some weird no-Unicode configuration due to shitty school configuration + SSH :(
< 1320429500 448792 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, probably best to run it locally :P
< 1320429514 100422 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: FIXT
< 1320429525 901138 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That is definitely a progress bar.
< 1320429539 4635 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It is extraordinarily difficult to argue with the notion that that is a progress bar.
< 1320429542 355982 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S MORE PROGRESS BAR THAN TERMINALS WERE MEANT TO DISPLAY
< 1320429556 412355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CANNOT COPE WITH THE NOTION OF A BAR MOVING LESS THAN ONE VT TABLE CELL AT A TIME
< 1320429556 856191 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1320429558 604073 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CakePrs€w}a{~e^is@]i[iped_a/The-Prophet-Wiza:CakeProphet: what the hell was that?" <- how appropriate.
< 1320429580 693525 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, let's see your fancy APT give you progress bars like that!!!!
< 1320429583 861408 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KITTEN POWER
< 1320429586 838037 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1320429589 586573 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that when you want to replicate GUI of any known app, you have to handcode every fucking single view BECAUSE Apple gives you only button and window ;F
< 1320429638 757795 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Seems you're right about nooga.
< 1320429642 597155 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep!
< 1320429661 534288 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn nooga hate OS X. NOOGA SMASH.
< 1320429663 944898 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320429672 429202 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320429698 919181 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there any known formula for calculating download speeds and download time remaining?
< 1320429707 960090 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I want something decent, not something that uses Microsoft minutes.
< 1320429714 777225 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be some fancy formula with weighting and shit :P
< 1320429753 87295 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1320429757 495314 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only failure.
< 1320429761 415707 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1320429781 401422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320429787 719716 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/798800/whats-the-best-way-to-calculate-remaining-download-time
< 1320429788 296416 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2779600/how-to-estimate-download-time-remaining-accurately
< 1320429794 361476 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ha, I just neeed an EXPONENTIAL MOVING AVERAGE.
< 1320430010 592288 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It occurs to me... I think, in common law jurisdictions, you could actually get away with signing things using a fucking *seal*.
< 1320430042 883485 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Doin' it.
< 1320430056 165629 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do mean the animal, right?
< 1320430067 766134 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *ARR' ARR'*
< 1320430086 48589 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do not, sadly.
< 1320430096 868591 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snaps*
< 1320430175 216689 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320430187 766969 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I think you could.
< 1320430199 474394 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A signature is any mark or action that indicates identity and intent.
< 1320430207 26781 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brand your seals and you should be good.
< 1320430245 754576 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_
< 1320430255 246831 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1320430259 790609 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320430351 246415 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Integer -> Integer -> Rational
< 1320430351 808405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Ratio approxRational :: RealFrac a => a -> a -> Rational
< 1320430351 935676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Ratio (%) :: Integral a => a -> a -> Ratio a
< 1320430351 989019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bits (.&.) :: Bits a => a -> a -> a
< 1320430364 162393 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh
< 1320430552 246600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell. I think tattooing something on you would count as a "signature".
< 1320430563 179638 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love common law.
< 1320430856 736683 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG it's working :D
< 1320430879 482384 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gregor: What does Unicode have to offer in the way of fun spinners???
< 1320430888 235924 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\|/- is so passe.
< 1320430915 583900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hmmmmmmmmmm
< 1320430962 199624 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spinning arrows??? Spinning SNOWMEN??? GOATS???
< 1320430973 237646 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pile of poo becoming slowly more and more gross until a dog eats it???
< 1320430975 213940 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew.
< 1320431022 940485 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320431041 899424 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2196/index.htm and http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2197/index.htm tick-tocking like a metronome.
< 1320431054 557115 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320431058 181130 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it.
< 1320431083 313413 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actually a large set of arrows.
< 1320431099 158216 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ooh, these four are promising:
< 1320431101 854949 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/21b0/index.htm
< 1320431102 200567 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/21b1/index.htm
< 1320431103 582713 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/21b2/index.htm
< 1320431105 260448 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/21b3/index.htm
< 1320431127 179236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :←↖↑↗→↘↓↙
< 1320431131 63392 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the set isn't complete >_<
< 1320431163 816826 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd really like is, like, ten rotations of ↺ :P
< 1320431224 170532 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320431267 995336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG wait, there's more right blocks than I thought?
< 1320431278 848547 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :spinning nipple
< 1320431280 574832 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320431287 37443 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Apple took that
< 1320431326 637733 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: There's a symbol for each phase of the moon.
< 1320431330 991120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note, not in common fonts.
< 1320431350 676769 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh >_< pikhq: What codepoints are these: ▎▍▌▋▊▉
< 1320431357 515492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1320431378 838865 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, what if I cycled rapidly through random Braille characters as my spinner.
< 1320431381 524228 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would look so cool.
< 1320431383 632759 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/block_elements/list.htm
< 1320431386 278766 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the block.
< 1320431389 792193 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That ... is pretty great, actually.
< 1320431398 718634 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Make it binary counting.
< 1320431410 370769 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something Korean? -> http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/codetables/9.3.html
< 1320431413 447047 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I stole that from a Stack Overflow answer >_> But, god damn, that's such an inspired idea :P
< 1320431435 588635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wrong
< 1320431435 719380 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Similarly you could use some of the "quadrant" blocks in what pikhq just posted.
< 1320431449 255535 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note how it has all the ones from the left, but only a few from the right
< 1320431453 685687 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to know where the other ones from the right are :P
< 1320431482 769660 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Maybe
< 1320431493 15674 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ◴ ◷ ◶ ◵
< 1320431501 962511 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone write a one-liner to cycle through those, I cannot believe it doesn't look cool.
< 1320431567 732317 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ while true; do echo -ne '\r◴'; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r◷'; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r◶'; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r◵'; done
< 1320431570 682514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as good as I hoped :P
< 1320431747 335173 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: 's too small I think.
< 1320431753 948394 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1320431905 585072 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :.:፧
< 1320431908 427709 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true; do echo -ne '\r┭'; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r┮'; sleep 0.1; done
< 1320431909 583108 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAILED IT
< 1320431927 834104 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, what :P
< 1320431935 101708 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... wriggling...
< 1320431937 414557 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a spinner, viewed on its side :P
< 1320431946 224308 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...X-D
< 1320431989 819424 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁘⁙
< 1320432008 17309 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ne?
< 1320432048 211882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web_: ?
< 1320432117 324281 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁘ ⁙
< 1320432124 289149 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true; do echo -ne '\r\xE2\x96\x9A '; sleep 0.2; echo -ne '\r\xE2\x96\x9E '; sleep 0.2; done Perfection
< 1320432190 494708 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's dancing.
< 1320432284 957483 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true; do echo -ne '\r⁘'; sleep 0.2; echo -ne '\r⁙'; sleep 0.2; done
< 1320432338 794245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.፧ is definitely like .: but with three arguments.
< 1320432355 985907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's not a valid operator character. :(
< 1320432370 837085 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: while true; do echo -ne '\r\xE2\x97\xBB\xE2\x97\xBD\xE2\x97\xBD '; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r\xE2\x97\xBD\xE2\x97\xBB\xE2\x97\xBD '; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r\xE2\x97\xBD\xE2\x97\xBD\xE2\x97\xBB '; sleep 0.1; echo -ne '\r\xE2\x97\xBD\xE2\x97\xBB\xE2\x97\xBD '; sleep 0.1; done
< 1320432389 213145 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Enjoying ourselves? :P
< 1320432395 572391 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes, but this one is legit good.
< 1320432405 221556 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but I can only use something one char wide >__>
< 1320432422 685847 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it'll turn into a ✓ once it's done :P
< 1320432426 715454 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GREEN ✓.
< 1320432431 670855 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usability expert
< 1320432496 869899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usability experts are tools, ha ha ha
< 1320432500 234347 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: dive
< 1320432658 500054 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt
< 1320432701 56183 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: So replace it with space check space *shrugs*
< 1320432751 950226 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll consider it :P
< 1320432798 41760 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, ideally the Unicode consortium would be adding characters just for this.
< 1320432801 268394 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEATSPIN NORTH WEST
< 1320432802 962574 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEATSPIN NORTH
< 1320432804 378190 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEATSPIN NORTH EAST
< 1320432807 426432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEATSPIN EAST
< 1320432892 325403 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTIAN MEATSPIN *
< 1320432906 415214 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this code structure is going to be a pain :P
< 1320432921 410232 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to support fully concurrent, independently-updated tasks and redraw the screen whenever any of them makes progress.
< 1320432929 551549 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to throw threads at the problem.
< 1320432950 525688 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever thought about.... GUI?
< 1320432963 366349 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I should write a lovely Cocoa program with that wonderful Interface Builder.
< 1320432967 524013 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320432968 864447 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll make this package manager so much better.
< 1320432991 482366 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cold write some beautiful NSView subclasses
< 1320432996 719046 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff
< 1320432998 988796 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :gradients
< 1320433001 70631 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know
< 1320433032 827865 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ry23q;0482y[09234n]901yn]-9yn]52~nty]]Ō€5~t480ee4q
< 1320433053 608371 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate my job
< 1320433127 806511 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Don't worry, it hates you too.
< 1320433181 304852 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst part is that I'm my own boss ;F
< 1320433229 758782 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest: Doing a job that is a different job to that.
< 1320433237 199498 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods sagely.
< 1320433421 505598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320433426 924111 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a nicer way of getting the terminal width than `tput cols`?
< 1320433442 36853 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that doesn't involve shelling out.
< 1320433459 315689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can simulate tput cols by hand, I guess
< 1320433464 87431 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does echo -ne do?
< 1320433466 613240 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the \r?
< 1320433470 499481 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's sort of what I'm asking.
< 1320433476 235474 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the -e makes the \r do something?
< 1320433478 334604 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By sort of I mean exactly.
< 1320433510 406488 :Guest63524!~butt@ANantes-259-1-157-136.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320433523 235997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Apache have stopped maintaining Harmony?
< 1320433542 8256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: as far as I know, it's writing a particular terminal-dependent control string, then reading back from the terminal
< 1320433548 364323 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh
< 1320433554 455075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose technically, you write stdout then read stdout
< 1320433559 883250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case it's different from stding
< 1320433561 380589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stdin
< 1320433564 542408 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You shoulda told me ansi-terminal didn't do width :P
< 1320433571 928242 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAULT
< 1320433572 707348 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...read stdout?
< 1320433583 158354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web_: why not?
< 1320433583 586474 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *stdin
< 1320433588 12944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's typically open both ways
< 1320433588 182730 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's perfectly possible
< 1320433591 531548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that was a correction on "stding"
< 1320433598 893797 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, heh
< 1320433605 959785 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may have to fix PSOX
< 1320433611 176622 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO PSOX IS BROKEN
< 1320433613 207534 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Not actually going to fix PSOX)
< 1320433625 543794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah, it isn't, it's an ioctl
< 1320433636 921586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCGETS, to be precise
< 1320433643 924243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctls are famous for being mostly undocumented
< 1320433659 480610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has worked with terminal ioctls before. :-(
< 1320433677 938868 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what, I'll just assume your terminal is 80 columns wide for now
< 1320433693 34677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :............django
< 1320433693 754940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1320433694 362669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: however, I think that one might be implemented by the Secret Project
< 1320433706 73212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing worse than trying to use ioctls is trying to implement them, or something like that
< 1320433713 66771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: worse things exist but wouldn't make for as pithy a quote)
< 1320433733 183905 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-206-51.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320433853 20296 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reimplementing a quarter of wget with a nicer UI sure isn't fun
< 1320433950 123618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: does wget have a programmatic interface that lets you connect it to your own progress counter, like fsck does/
< 1320433966 574925 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just --progress=dot
< 1320433974 752433 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and screen-scraping
< 1320433980 655088 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's no terminal codes, but still)
< 1320433986 110503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320434015 728515 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why do you think I'm rolling my own? :P
< 1320434038 922835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if there was one and you didn't know of it
< 1320434042 405335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know of fsck's for ages
< 1320434060 498568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've never actually used it from code, although the system uses it to display fsck progress on the splash screen)
< 1320434076 657980 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320434099 409977 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Task = Task
< 1320434099 581916 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  { taskName :: TVar String
< 1320434099 644798 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  , taskProgress :: TVar Rational
< 1320434099 697595 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  , taskProgressInfo :: TVar String
< 1320434099 697762 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  , taskDone :: TVar Bool
< 1320434100 412250 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  }
< 1320434102 788808 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is coming together
< 1320434118 756261 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe that should all be in a single TVar; it's not going to get independently modified
< 1320434143 337675 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that for?
< 1320434150 876352 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :package manager!
< 1320434154 582938 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320434160 815106 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is the package manager for
< 1320434167 967710 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (apparently I can't write an interactive-ish console program without trying to surpass darcs' UI in every way)
< 1320434170 154538 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Kitten
< 1320434181 378280 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was Kitten, again?
< 1320434215 401108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: darcs' UI is great although not perfect, so surpassing it is always going to lead to good UIs
< 1320434249 966102 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: linux distro!
< 1320434283 890760 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1320434286 612155 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My programs are pretty much either completely unusable requiring like ten shell scripts to thread them together and modifications to work with anyone else's stuff but mine, or COMPLETELY FLAWLESS HANDCRAFTED UIs.
< 1320434288 771903 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mostly the former.)
< 1320434346 170674 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320434373 478238 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how it would be different from other linux distros?
< 1320434415 610978 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: purely functional package and configuration manager (a la Nix), generalised to be a complete service manager; seamless multilib support; hopefully not very crap???
< 1320434542 876481 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320434617 843133 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have packages to manage?
< 1320434742 519973 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hmm. So, this would probably seamlessly handle multiple libcs.
< 1320434751 2523 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep.
< 1320434765 156454 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus could be the basis for a musl-and-glibc distro.
< 1320434771 152256 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Sure, every package in a Linux distro shall be managed. Also the entirety of language-specific repos like CPAN and Hackage, seamlessly and automatically.
< 1320434772 642800 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glibc for everything that can't be musl)
< 1320434795 21425 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep. I'm actually intending to start off with a "regular" glibc/gcc setup and then move to musl as it becomes more usable (i.e. C++ support for WebKit :-P)
< 1320434806 758226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right.
< 1320434808 845635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's musl?
< 1320434816 589392 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The nice thing about the purely-functional package management model is that dynamic linking literally means nothing any more.
< 1320434830 69112 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a minor space tradeoff, a very slight time tradeoff.
< 1320434834 817428 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: musl is an alternate libc that features better performance than glibc and better size than uclibc.
< 1320434838 906974 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saves a bit of network bandwidth for delta updates.
< 1320434853 588329 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :While also being written reasonably well.
< 1320434866 429368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what if the system crashes and the partition with the libraries on can't be mounted?
< 1320434889 894683 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then the system is fucked, *just like any recent Linux distro*. :)
< 1320434892 470047 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean the only partition that contains packages?
< 1320434895 672526 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We all want Web o' Flies, why are you restricting it to elliott_? :(
< 1320434903 964649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm PMing it on request
< 1320434907 59089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you requesting?
< 1320434909 714033 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: REQUEST
< 1320434917 886254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION requesteth as well
< 1320434926 47942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I leaked a bit of your valuable IP in the form of the jawdropping comments, sry about that :P
< 1320434926 959801 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus this is too brilliant for me to not look at. :)
< 1320434982 145745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, all the comments on the first screenful are indicative of one insanity or another
< 1320434998 157869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just in the preprocessor statements to include relevant headers with relevant options
< 1320435030 114304 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate your _POSIX_C_SOURCE.
< 1320435038 993601 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though _GNU_SOURCE should suffice.
< 1320435049 342646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, the value I defined it to is significant, believe it or not
< 1320435051 16414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forget why
< 1320435060 845164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :199309L is rather higher than the usual setting
< 1320435085 523317 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably disabling some newer POSIX features.
< 1320435145 660609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the first bit after the #includes is pretty crazy too
< 1320435182 683119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm defining a couple of structs that aren't in any include files; the docs say you have to define them yourself, and the docs /also/ miss out a field, so if you try to define them to the docs it won't work
< 1320435257 209265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's for the syscall getdents; you're not supposed to use it directly, rather using a wrapper, but you can do a few things with it that you can't via the wrapper, such as listing amazingly large directories, and ofc weboflies is at the receiving end of syscalls so it has to understand getdents, not the libc equivalents)
< 1320435268 935919 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also x86-specific.
< 1320435300 435047 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320435392 404814 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the hell is vt_kd_kbentries, anyways?
< 1320435420 525485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's in a separate file, let me paste that too
< 1320435429 169778 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah.*
< 1320435433 845590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KKPf
< 1320435483 104994 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can give you a build script
< 1320435491 868019 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -o weboflies -m32 -O2 -g --std=gnu99 -Wall -Wextra -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-missing-braces weboflies.c ktt.c -lrt -lpng
< 1320435495 194259 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ktt.c is that other file ais523 just pasted
< 1320435497 333667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 199309L is rather higher than the usual setting <-- hm?
< 1320435506 132225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for _POSIX_C_SOURCE, IIRC
< 1320435507 393518 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what does `? actually do?
< 1320435510 97739 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ?
< 1320435512 32485 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? is wisdom
< 1320435536 991801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, take a look at man 7 feature_test_macros
< 1320435542 441375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it should explain how it works
< 1320435544 126632 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's usually > 2001 or so
< 1320435546 460104 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the year part
< 1320435570 472919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, defining it to 1 just exposes the original POSIX
< 1320435585 838927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I define it to 200112L for POSIX.1-2001
< 1320435593 666088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 200809L for POSIX.1-2008
< 1320435640 943208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I have to say that the way _XOPEN_SOURCE works in is weird. 500,600,700? How does that make sense
< 1320435647 157501 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: magic!
< 1320435656 295813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Tuesday, FreeGeek Vancouver fixed the mail, they changed it from GNU mail to BSD mail and it could send/receive properly. But on Wednesday it broke again, somehow reverting to GNU mail. On Thursday, it worked again!
< 1320435657 14209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes, magic constants
< 1320435665 184552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's like BASIC line numbers, it's so they can add other values in between
< 1320435698 709949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why start at 500 hm
< 1320435707 812451 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's "5.0.0", "6.0.0", "7.0.0"
< 1320435714 616019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, makes sense
< 1320435724 259041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what happened to 4.0.0 though?
< 1320435730 381356 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck if I know.
< 1320435734 721639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other lower numbers yeah
< 1320435735 477857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320435751 538239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't X's current version at 11, anyway?
< 1320435768 20091 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. They didn't use that macro for earlier versions.
< 1320435786 208948 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some idiot is setting fireworks off outside, since they apparently can't count past three.
< 1320435786 327193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is the X/Open Portability Guide standard.
< 1320435796 480592 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not* the X Windowing System.
< 1320435826 822593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would two different things be called X?
< 1320435851 843885 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because people believe in confusing you.
< 1320435874 149922 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := ERROR: stat proc/pid/fd: Permission denied
< 1320435875 604392 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY
< 1320435879 797635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: join the club
< 1320435891 204051 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works for ais523 :)
< 1320435895 246059 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else gets that error
< 1320435899 227134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all two of us
< 1320435907 20302 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can generalise from two examples! I just did it!)
< 1320435922 100514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'd /guess/ that something's changed in Linux's handling of perms
< 1320435940 472050 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fERT And my Makefile.
< 1320435945 986158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :along the lines of "you can't read a process's fds if there's ever been a root-owned process in the history of processes since"
< 1320435975 640129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could just comment out the permission dropping in the main process, but that would be insane
< 1320435987 978326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly, it's insane enough as-is, but I don't want to make it even worse)
< 1320436004 889013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or keep the root perms in reserve for when they're needed; I don't like doing that either, but it's more secure than running as root constantly
< 1320436018 133200 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"6:54 remaining @ 1 Mio/s" <-- hmm, this seems worryingly long
< 1320436024 646124 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not much space left for the filename
< 1320436039 121391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what filename lengths are you expecting?
< 1320436041 210534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what kernel version are you on then that make it work?
< 1320436053 94714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.32-35-generic
< 1320436061 221838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 10.04 LTS?
< 1320436062 168409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320436073 428302 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm testing on 3.0.0-1-amd64.
< 1320436078 164419 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Cibreoffice-af-3.4...   368.0K  398.0K/s 00:00:02 [#####-----------------]  27%
< 1320436078 328657 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's what pacman's looks like
< 1320436117 384403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's only just new enough to run weboflies, which requires something along the lines of 2.6.30
< 1320436118 869958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or newer
< 1320436151 274547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : "6:54 remaining @ 1 Mio/s" <-- hmm, this seems worryingly long
< 1320436151 586617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's not much space left for the filename
< 1320436152 556896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1320436154 773801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where?
< 1320436156 139088 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, I just had a great idea that would require me to abandon my smooth progress bar format
< 1320436171 287914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :include the progress at the head of the progress bar itself, white on green
< 1320436180 211011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: like AceHack health bars?
< 1320436189 272272 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1320436201 425049 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would there be any problems with killing Flash when it's not in use?
< 1320436204 99185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as long as it work over serial console :P
< 1320436207 283722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really)
< 1320436212 653291 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't recall
< 1320436236 629226 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... /me decides that seeing how much of the file in absolute terms has downloaded so far is useless
< 1320436242 330035 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a progress bar + total filesize is enough
< 1320436268 315251 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"8 Gio @ 1 Mio/s; 6:54" that's better
< 1320436279 251386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web_: on this system, Flash isn't even running when it's not in use
< 1320436291 327741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ killall plugin-container
< 1320436292 742981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plugin-container: no process found
< 1320436301 204129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume other systems are the same
< 1320436321 688553 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Funny thing is, almost everything that works with a Linux virtual terminal should work over a serial console.
< 1320436340 115058 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept of a "terminal" is such a stupidly naive thing.
< 1320436366 429513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, it works with a couple of FIFOs and a bunch of lying about the results of ioctls
< 1320436390 490635 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah.
< 1320436397 813847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well one connected to a line printer I meant ;P
< 1320436400 980785 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a heck of a lot of lying to get programs to think it's a serial terminal.
< 1320436408 39837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ktt.c is a lookup table for the results of the ioctl to get the keyboard translation table
< 1320436422 555669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what it means (and have failed to figure it out via looking at it); I obtained it by experiment
< 1320436427 390744 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd be surprised if even vi worked like that.
< 1320436436 18645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, fair enough
< 1320436445 950591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting programs to think it's a serial terminal; I'm getting them to think it's a VT (ctrl-alt-F1 style)
< 1320436459 302310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that they have complete control over the keyboard and screen while it's active
< 1320436466 571270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm discussing Linux's normal handling of pty's.
< 1320436473 595446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1320436481 502229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think weboflies does connect to a pty
< 1320436485 528369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but disguises it as a tty
< 1320436486 67418 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, obviously, are adding extra magic on top of that. :)
< 1320436592 12453 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I think I might be concentrating a little too much on this package manager's download UI
< 1320436649 921589 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: never
< 1320436659 431117 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI IS LIKE
< 1320436663 190216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE KNOBS AND THE BUTTONS
< 1320436667 660321 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE STEERING WHEEL
< 1320436673 40821 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WANT YOUR PRODUCT TO BE SHARP.
< 1320436678 310128 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND EASY TO OPERATE.
< 1320436686 171293 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UI is the face
< 1320436688 540437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that greets your user.
< 1320436707 884899 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More typically, the UI is the hammer. That beats your user.
< 1320436709 366594 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a face of knobs and buttons and a steering wheel? that's not a pretty face
< 1320436729 783528 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tells him or her what's up, provides an... interface... for the user
< 1320436731 982098 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a user interface.
< 1320436756 307320 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UI is the anvil upon which the user must beat its head
< 1320437106 874549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : you know, I think I might be concentrating a little too much on this package manager's download UI <-- yes
< 1320437114 869667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1320437119 574023 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :)
< 1320437125 625518 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fucking hate pacman's and apt's
< 1320437130 1251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, personally I would probably start out just calling out to wget, then later on I would try to format the output a bit
< 1320437141 823816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? a call to wget is one line, there's no point
< 1320437145 374096 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know exactly how it'd work
< 1320437154 17087 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to prove-of-concept to myself that I can call wget
< 1320437167 978190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you were doing the actual implementation
< 1320437181 78479 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am
< 1320437185 367619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have done download the easy way
< 1320437201 398603 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that buy me?
< 1320437210 436290 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to replace it later on, anyway
< 1320437541 933967 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Search within an incognito window to avoid the Google bubble. Or you could get the Tor browser." — Sensible advice from reddit on how to get rid of search tuning temporarily.
< 1320437544 306008 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agua di Gio
< 1320437782 750410 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress: thread blocked indefinitely in an STM transaction
< 1320437782 977894 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no.
< 1320438057 619019 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: The thing is that by doing the naive thing first you can get *working* code quickly.
< 1320438072 972772 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I already know how to write a working wget call :)
< 1320438083 667426 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is far easier to make working code better than to make perfect ideas work. :)
< 1320438123 562122 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ancient problem of enginieers: idealism
< 1320438618 247691 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PART :#esoteric
< 1320438626 782336 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320438676 309073 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320438829 915193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1320439161 489598 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320439340 25437 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320439462 225378 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to code patch-bay-like view in cocoa
< 1320439475 54680 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sucks ;|
< 1320439542 667128 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320439567 69605 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320439571 307110 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320439571 359585 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320440153 971238 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1320440194 126192 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320440215 94040 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320440270 130419 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to get concerned about the frequency of non REISUBable freezes
< 1320440293 189862 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320440327 188149 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: hardware troubles?
< 1320440335 346369 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to measure wear and tear on a flash drive?
< 1320440343 334495 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice, maybe
< 1320440366 255248 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the flash drive is a recent SSD, it probably reports interesting numbers via SMART.
< 1320440391 534041 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But non-responsive drives should not prevent the B in REISUB from working.
< 1320440394 653838 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a thumb drive
< 1320440434 560848 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :For thumb drive, forget it. Maybe there are special controller-vendor-specific tools that could do it.
< 1320440458 652504 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for that you first would need to know the controller type, and then try to get hold of that tool (if any).
< 1320440522 380090 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most non-REISUBable freezes I experienced lately were caused by broken laptop mainboards (most likely BGA solder joints broken).
< 1320440611 201303 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1320440616 569212 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320440849 368443 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official support channel for Web o' Flies | EPL evening school assignments! http://tinyurl.com/5stnu5n | It's the end of an era | RIP John McCarthy) | TO SHREDS!) |  http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320441172 624356 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship headers?
< 1320441255 687294 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaders.
< 1320441370 342318 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I learned some topology today, it seems to be the study of blobby shapes?
< 1320441392 78200 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320441411 383888 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody shapes
< 1320441444 123627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320441454 468592 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I spent today in a hot stuffy room
< 1320441463 281513 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listening to boring people drone on and on and on
< 1320441483 647110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good day
< 1320441489 507076 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right, I've been to the House of Commons!
< 1320441505 788779 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't go there
< 1320441508 66431 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that they let you do that for the hell of it?
< 1320441520 632121 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuo
< 1320441530 867965 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: really; im shocked
< 1320441531 191593 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuo
< 1320441538 265270 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out there's a public gallery.
< 1320441542 168273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1320441557 393513 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: about it working ore what
< 1320441572 220234 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: about no go house comon
< 1320441582 865942 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I met Guy Opperman
< 1320441597 456478 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you're an ore worker?
< 1320441598 190021 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't meet that Guy
< 1320441617 696940 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Guy Thomas Opperman[3] (born 18 May 1965) is a British Conservative Party politician,"
< 1320441621 585687 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds lovely.
< 1320441648 327652 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with Conservatives anyway. There are so many of them.
< 1320441652 847405 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they Tribbles.
< 1320441690 613642 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320441734 588145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we need more klingons
< 1320441786 456187 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You always need more Klingons.
< 1320441799 988933 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What problem can't be solved by throwing Klingons at it?
< 1320441812 83200 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem of having too many klingons
< 1320441825 996873 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best bit
< 1320441826 667000 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trick answer; there is no such thing
< 1320441838 428706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually... they might start killing each other and solving that problem too
< 1320441838 800034 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have too many klingons, they start killing eachother
< 1320441845 650762 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, of course it solves that, they're Klingons for christ's sake.
< 1320441876 539678 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they decide it's more honorable to increase the number of klingons?
< 1320441886 24088 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320441888 122225 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More Klingons.
< 1320441889 142315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they are no longer Kilingons
< 1320441892 553763 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: IO (TChan TaskStatus -> IO (), IO ())
< 1320441896 355240 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this will work
< 1320441900 814676 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Kil/Kl/
< 1320441900 937458 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that doesn't work, hypervelocity Klingons.
< 1320441901 183817 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :killingons :>
< 1320441903 972089 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I will use a TChan for the TChans????
< 1320441907 410859 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many TChans.
< 1320441925 621336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tchan
< 1320442510 4073 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, there's actually sockpuppeting on the IWC forum
< 1320442515 873166 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over Russian translations
< 1320442772 967687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-197.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320442773 391757 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-133.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320443075 893538 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, here we go: http://bitbucket.org/GregorR/web-o-flies
< 1320443398 493276 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposed to be a broken link?
< 1320443403 199001 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320443667 922356 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The cat righting reflex is a cat's innate ability to orient itself as it falls in order to land on its feet. The righting reflex begins to appear at 3-4 weeks of age, and is perfected at 7 weeks."
< 1320443696 455847 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be the person who dropped kittens and checked if they righted themselves.
< 1320443843 577824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: SHHHH YOU'RE RUINING MY JOKE/TROLLERY
< 1320443855 336597 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is adding Gopher menu format support to Haddock.
< 1320443871 507932 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He...
< 1320443888 703474 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gopher...
< 1320443895 415576 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haddock...
< 1320444003 355433 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: [[Falling cat problem]] links directly to Yang-Mills theory.
< 1320444242 948118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-197.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320444261 58720 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-47.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320444360 532073 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's great having zzo around in that channel, isn't it?
< 1320444416 648037 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't think we've had quite these kinds of proposals from anybody else.
< 1320444420 404232 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo channel is good channel
< 1320444548 368450 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Cat_fall_150x300_6fps.gif
< 1320444553 369339 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I am so happy you made me find this image.
< 1320444585 114458 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the overlayed angular momenta.
< 1320444621 428082 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that image because of how good it is reminds me of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sch%C3%A9ma_synchronicit%C3%A9_in_English.png
< 1320444758 822967 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing that is not perfect about that diagram.
< 1320444801 101435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320444821 121044 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speak of the devil...
< 1320444843 422753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the devil?
< 1320444861 655414 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i want to know the logic behind that diagram... actually i don't
< 1320444875 707794 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i will just choose to believe someone thought of four random things and arranged them on a plus sign
< 1320444940 904816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should Haddock output format have:  Plain TeX, gopher menu format, Plain Old Documentation, MediaWiki, etc
< 1320444992 373079 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE895C4.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320445015 835416 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly like Haddock markup format so I made up idea of a different format:   http://sprunge.us/jdWh
< 1320445036 674407 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfect. Tell #haskell about it.
< 1320445042 858298 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did already.
< 1320445048 995158 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :better
< 1320445052 407985 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep telling them.
< 1320445052 680887 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a replacement for TeX
< 1320445057 463008 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ever stop.
< 1320445080 8915 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320445080 831963 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Not right now. Maybe later, when they are different people on that channel, such as the people who invented Haddock.
< 1320445087 425547 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: definitely insist on .doc
< 1320445100 547574 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good descriptive file extenstion that's totally unique
< 1320445155 316104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extension doesn't really matter as long as it is agreed on. Of course anything in this proposal is subject to changing.
< 1320445165 817739 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had dock.
< 1320445169 532785 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was four letters
< 1320445176 400592 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was tooooooooooo many
< 1320445199 407861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is OK to have more than three letters in the extension if you want to; I do not think Haddock is a DOS program!!
< 1320445225 828022 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps .hdd
< 1320445226 337187 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: So he had to dock the last letter?
< 1320445239 573293 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "hickory dickory dock"
< 1320445303 76805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read it and tell me if each individual thing is wrong, please.
< 1320445351 39750 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it. i don't even know what haddock is so i can't answer that question.
< 1320445566 166808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320445899 947104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the people managing the account for HackageDB have UNIX mail? I send a UNIX message to them and I don't know if it work.
< 1320445909 733189 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320445977 657333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't work; my name is not on there.
< 1320446641 830830 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I invented a chess variant with the INTERCAL commands.
< 1320446656 783875 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You invent a lot of things.
< 1320446697 526378 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably many people working in esolangs invent a lot of things it seems to be.
< 1320446765 415929 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is like that leading character in Lovecraft who only exists for the protagonist to chart the grizzly demise of.
< 1320447272 853664 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320447290 651982 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: which is your favourite piece by Lovecraft?
< 1320447317 232854 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't read many; I read The Colour Out Of Space and didn't sleep that night.
< 1320447782 776225 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: So what about those queer angles that can be used for extradimensional travel?
< 1320447783 604758 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for hours he climbed with aching and fnord hands, induced to purchase escape at the price of the fnord and i wondered whether asenath could possibly have covered. yet nothing of what i had
< 1320448789 856899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320449015 261083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it says "No instance for (IsString ByteString)" even though it says it does?
< 1320449092 231589 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it doesn't.
< 1320449104 934758 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Import the right module -- .Char8 -- or, better yet, don't use ByteStrings as Strings (they're not).
< 1320449193 443726 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320450480 977245 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Ukranian guy appears to have been overloading my server sometimes.
< 1320450522 786547 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least their ISP is Ukranian.
< 1320450549 350801 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: Bomb Ukraine.
< 1320450645 784293 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320451994 829911 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320452003 789015 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320452450 636290 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320453827 60709 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320454194 512584 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320454558 869260 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :JesusGarcia
< 1320454571 562601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I got the Haskell program to load the \fontdimen values from a TFM font.
< 1320454575 663248 :JesusGarcia!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320454585 813542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just need to add the other stuff too.
< 1320454642 519058 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@70-59-41-246.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320455263 892354 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "makeFont" function takes thirteen parameters, ten of which are applied using the <*> operator.
< 1320455285 900178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320455379 129302 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(map fromEnum <$> (mReadData h 12 :: IO [Word16])) >>= \z -> makeFont n m z <$> mReadData h (z !! 1) <*> mReadData h ((z !! 3) + 1 - (z !! 2)) <*> mReadData h (z !! 4) <*> mReadData h (z !! 5) <*> mReadData h (z !! 6) <*> ........
< 1320456424 181031 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320456442 354153 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320458407 51823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320458435 288403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :guard is a very useful command, I have used it with the list monad and with the Maybe monad.
< 1320458446 984279 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@70-59-41-246.hlrn.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320459527 237944 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninuini\
< 1320459817 910288 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320459822 461813 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree
< 1320459829 38043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320459854 355281 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320460494 768563 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i met a burglar
< 1320460521 160294 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatted with him for 5 minutes, went home and called the cops. will prolly be stabbed soon enough :D
< 1320460527 833792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made the entire part of the Graphics.DVI program for loading font metrics.
< 1320460585 862728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is a functional programming language, it is entirely different to the other programs for doing so.
< 1320460825 144358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inside of a record syntax it has the code:   fontDimen = 0 : transEnum (shiftR (head pa) 4) : (rescale fsc <$> tail pa), firstChar = transEnum $ hdr !! 2, leftBoundChar = guard (last lk >= 0xFF000000) >> makeLigKern ke' (drop (fromEnum $ last lk .&. 0xFFFF) lk),
< 1320460953 271869 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320461615 475705 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320462173 624969 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1320462551 472184 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320462551 747507 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320462551 800510 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320462591 175152 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it doesn't check that the font file is valid, so it is possible to get runtime errors if something tries to access index in a table that is larger than the number of items in that table.
< 1320464762 725560 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320465102 130883 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320465217 869606 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320465555 380251 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320465698 80397 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320466460 238238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I finally implemented WebSplat Zalgofication.
< 1320466463 339394 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's SO SLOW :(
< 1320467066 21108 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Zalgofication mean?
< 1320467326 666256 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is instructions for a chess variant I invented a while ago, and I wrote it on paper. I will describe: Except for the king, the pieces are flat, and the owner is known by the direction they are facing, rathan than by colors. The king is tall piece like a tombstone. Pawns move one space directly forward (even when capturing), and cannot promote. There are six other kind of pieces.
< 1320467338 633952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 (Cannon): Moves like Chinese cannon.
< 1320467344 723707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 (Rider): It is (2,0) rider.
< 1320467393 275650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 (Abstain): As rook, can capture your own as well as opponent's pieces. It destroys itself (going to opponent's bench) whenever it capture something. Toggle abstain mark of the type and owner of the captured piece. Abstained pieces cannot move.
< 1320467452 994086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 (Mingle): Cannot capture. Move orghogonally an even number of spaces, and can jump over other pieces. Contents of squares it jumps over are interleaved (e.g. ABCD -> ACBD, ABCDEFGH -> AEBFCGDH).
< 1320467482 355559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 (Ignore): Move like a rook but cannot capture. Toggle ignore mark of square moved from. Ignored squares cannot be moved into except by number fives.
< 1320467534 633162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 (Select): No displacement capture. Move one orghogonally then over any number of squares rookwise. Pieces on squares with a piece of same type on adjacent square (opposite direction of first move) are captured by you (you choose order). Other ones fall towards first moved space stops on square just before reaching it.
< 1320468236 263152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320469435 260157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read something about a probability monad. It seem to me, it would be, return makes one value with 1 probability, fmap maps the values, join multiplies the inner probabilities by the outer probabilities, (>>) just results in the value on the right, (>>=) applies a probabilistic function to values. Actually, I think the probability values could be any monoid; it doesn't have to be a number.
< 1320469504 208405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if it is a number, and the contained value is of a type having equality, then you can simplify by adding the probabilities together, by having a separate function that does that.
< 1320470611 354139 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320471594 427459 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320474113 75253 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: iei
< 1320474134 830158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eieio
< 1320474134 947116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1320474237 694336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that elliott, so calm and patient
< 1320474341 56173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ala Sum foldMap [1,2,3,4]
< 1320474342 532217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `foldMap'
< 1320474349 841143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@
< 1320474367 895392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ala Sum Data.Foldable.foldMap [1,2,3,4]
< 1320474368 789907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  10
< 1320474384 209467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy
< 1320474412 26139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott fancy
< 1320474412 260563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1320474495 212801 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :45*60*25
< 1320474547 80323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ala Product Data.Foldable.foldMap [45,60,25]
< 1320474547 929454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  67500
< 1320474596 177142 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i did it with bc :P
< 1320475054 350372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320475291 624833 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e155.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320476354 803061 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala
< 1320476355 636108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n b n' o'. (Newtype n o, Newtype n' o') => (o -> n) -> ((o -> n) -> b -> n') -> b -> o'
< 1320476371 630228 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ala
< 1320476371 747334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. There are some things that I just don't know.
< 1320476376 299873 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ala
< 1320476377 202028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List intercalate :: [a] -> [[a]] -> [a]
< 1320476377 435883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.UI.GLUT.Callbacks.Window DialAndButtonBoxButton :: ButtonIndex -> KeyState -> DialAndButtonBoxInput
< 1320476377 488797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.UI.GLUT.Callbacks.Window type DialAndButtonBoxCallback = DialAndButtonBoxInput -> IO ()
< 1320476443 408388 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a few more classes related to monoids: MonoidPlus, Group, MonoidMinus, MonoidNorm.
< 1320476531 994131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonoidPlus adds mpempty and mpappend, which should be distributive over mempty and mappend; Group adds minverse.
< 1320476559 645633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/newtype/latest/doc/html/Control-Newtype.html
< 1320476638 475208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: MonoidPlus is called a semiring
< 1320476659 234113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, I didn't know that.
< 1320476714 57411 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it isn't; the annihilation property does not necessarily hold.
< 1320476757 154333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320476918 724852 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added a Semiring class, that adds no additional methods but it is only used to tell you which ones are semirings.
< 1320477145 957958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, there is another property that is not part of the definition of MonoidPlus, which is commutative addition.
< 1320477444 3115 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1320477458 441765 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda/ski calculus is so unforgiving
< 1320477602 472010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``````````````````````.I.s. .e.g.o.b.o.t. .w.o.r.k.i.n.g. .n.o.w.?i
< 1320477624 768451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help don't bet on it
< 1320477625 267648 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for don_t_bet_on_it!
< 1320477640 488051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1320477686 989001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unlambda ```````````.T.h.i.s. .m.i.g.h.t..i
< 1320477687 380421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  This might.
< 1320478499 188669 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320478566 945908 :CakeProphet!~eris@h55.59.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320478571 889197 :CakeProphet!~eris@h55.59.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320478571 941434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320478832 284176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is a waste.
< 1320479065 422108 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than that other one
< 1320479194 384387 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1320479211 15933 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know
< 1320479211 539130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a game.
< 1320479260 393543 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of game? Chess game or card game?
< 1320479280 310538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game of masturbation.
< 1320479317 685559 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a board game that isnt chess
< 1320479346 1135 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1320479346 469243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1320480991 902655 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320481194 738149 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320481602 169554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added the  instance Num t => Ring (Product t);
< 1320482391 120869 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320482443 697567 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320482501 716627 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320482501 947796 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320482502 422 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320483207 766443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1320484737 771603 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d478.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320484748 304551 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320485519 526194 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320485580 881864 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320486158 726088 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320486716 684150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320487902 721496 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320488054 359523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320488699 918867 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1320488713 813469 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320488786 884146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320488941 743863 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :``s`k``s`k``s`k``s`k``s`k``s`k``si`kksks`sikk
< 1320488944 169367 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit
< 1320488948 621487 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `s`k``s`k``s`k``s`k``s`k``s`k``si`kksks`sikk: not found
< 1320488959 779318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr?
< 1320488974 365668 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :function that makes a pair in unlambda I think
< 1320489007 345432 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :took a couple hours to figure out (without cheating and looking up in the docs)
< 1320489062 283029 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that function is probably crucial for any data type aside from the bit
< 1320489081 767049 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the natural number
< 1320489113 278331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pair as in standard LC pair?
< 1320489130 254902 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what standard LC part means
< 1320489152 205022 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#Pairs
< 1320489160 207177 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it gets 3 arguments, returns the first one if true, second one if false
< 1320489236 193883 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngevd: I guess you can build numbers from church numerals or something but it's probably faster to do bit arrays or trees
< 1320489253 327432 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for larger numbers
< 1320489268 125297 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wouldn't know
< 1320489317 841654 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah basically unlambda is incredibly laborious to write :o
< 1320489387 547453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, the standard pair is \x y f -> f x y.
< 1320489414 302254 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(S(KS)(S(KK)(S(KS)(S(K(SI))K))))(KK) in definitely not unlambda notation
< 1320489431 731498 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar but a bit different I guess
< 1320489468 43066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does yours work?
< 1320489475 43533 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :f is different
< 1320489502 945821 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :f is either i for true (first member), or `ki for false (second member)
< 1320489517 650251 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't work
< 1320489522 299034 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want k for true
< 1320489522 352660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True... isn't i.
< 1320489527 765756 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Ngevd said.
< 1320489540 814218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would apply the two arguments together, I think
< 1320489549 531011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1320489549 643674 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless unlambda is weirder than I thought
< 1320489602 972271 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess you could use k for true and `ki for false, then you would have a skighly different pair constructor yes
< 1320489664 750517 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you can use i for true at all.
< 1320489684 596572 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't get rid of information
< 1320489702 133743 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = don't replace with i, `ki = replace with i
< 1320489710 671716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information-hoarding is a terrible condition, Ngevd.
< 1320489731 275521 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply on a function that replaces the input with something else
< 1320489744 901944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right.
< 1320489758 328798 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound, if convoluted.
< 1320489775 836783 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything not convoluted in lambda calculus :o
< 1320489789 993455 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not at all.
< 1320489823 319995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean it's not all that convoluted.
< 1320489873 244419 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320489879 798111 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything not convoluted in unlambda then ? :D
< 1320489895 28587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda is terrible, so I decline to comment.
< 1320489927 566203 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's terrible and awesome I guess
< 1320489936 772119 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's just ski calculus really
< 1320489996 292878 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah a good esoteric language should have mindfuck power, and unlambda definitely qualifies
< 1320490006 636618 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my favourite language
< 1320490007 24149 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By fa
< 1320490007 76640 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r
< 1320490009 141825 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For mindfuck, go for Malbolge
< 1320490039 82638 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's just random shit
< 1320490052 893816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "random shit"
< 1320490061 478966 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it's too much of a "mindfuck" for your mind
< 1320490074 183082 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying that, it's too much of a mindfuck for my mind
< 1320490094 341127 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the details of malbolge too much
< 1320490106 267517 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge
< 1320490109 248102 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but last time I remember it's just evil and not at all deep
< 1320490206 862289 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Malbolge program is something I can stand in awe at
< 1320490219 214502 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a fan of bitwise languages I guess
< 1320490230 137039 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good news, Malbolge is tritwise!
< 1320490234 137009 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1320490250 996643 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it's just imperative
< 1320490263 891050 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not some mindbendingly crazy new paradigm
< 1320490305 848529 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda's paradigm dates back to at least 1924
< 1320490317 683125 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1320490338 280943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Unlambda's paradigm predates conventional imperative programming.
< 1320490346 277267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which dates to 1954
< 1320490375 66997 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Assembly is counted as a different paradigm
< 1320490403 923223 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which comes from about the same time
< 1320490484 822172 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok
< 1320490537 598730 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :still thinking the point is to come up with crazy paradigms :D
< 1320490550 526173 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Piet?
< 1320490599 89101 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Befunge?
< 1320490605 418497 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta yeah
< 1320490626 547060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not like Unlambda
< 1320490652 376649 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, sleep
< 1320490654 370457 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Radiateur
< 1320490680 563056 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems nice
< 1320491042 106576 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flobnar seems interesting
< 1320491472 802838 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320491577 981170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320491979 753401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a funge on the hyperbolic plane would be interesting
< 1320492018 992595 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame I haven't actually figured out how the hyperbolic plane works
< 1320492241 960676 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320492242 303564 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320492242 356022 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320492451 955629 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320492927 896655 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320493223 415135 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem the MonadPlus instance for Parsec does not follow the laws.
< 1320493722 438444 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1320494055 822919 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320494078 810990 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-47.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320495044 54895 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320495844 376064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320498046 718709 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320498248 38401 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320498350 168407 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge a klein bottle
< 1320499363 907882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Shame I haven't actually figured out how the hyperbolic plane works
< 1320499385 156914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way to think of it is that the angles around a point add up to more than 360°.
< 1320499412 214215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is wrong, but it's wrong in a way which is right if you don't go into too much depth.
< 1320499433 719321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, he left.
< 1320500657 69163 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320500968 146314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, sure, why not
< 1320501006 66727 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320501013 116256 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the first question is whether you're going to funge in three dimensions or four
< 1320501031 554968 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1320501031 673894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320501042 575796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw what you said, Phantom_Hoover
< 1320501046 726995 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1320501085 661858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, wait, the klein bottle forms a plane that is connected to itself in "weird" ways doesn't it?
< 1320501097 581620 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Houlton, Maine.
< 1320501104 613472 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you despise Hexham so?
< 1320501126 991407 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kleinbottle.com
< 1320501241 245089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ...
< 1320501254 791400 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_polygon
< 1320501263 188166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to leave this here.
< 1320501297 785719 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, fun fact, the guy who runs that site also caught Markus Hess.
< 1320501343 940193 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Klein bottle is a Mooobius strip made even weirder, right?
< 1320501375 256545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Mobius strip with the other edges joined as well.
< 1320501382 691602 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought sp
< 1320501388 839816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I meant
< 1320501414 879628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Langton's ant on a Mooobius strip: taking metaphors the wrong way
< 1320501493 876535 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Langton's cow on a Mooobius strip sounds more likely.
< 1320501929 729843 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320503051 218009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320503673 263957 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320503769 463246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it turns out that the recent zero-day affecting Windows turned out to be a security bug in the kernel's font parser
< 1320503782 376622 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...!
< 1320503794 927620 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems an odd place for a security bug
< 1320503820 157212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like an odd place for a font parser
< 1320503862 106394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's historical reasons based on trying to run NT 4 on old hardware, and they never moved it back
< 1320503975 382678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1320504016 457208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought NT 3/4 tried to put a lot of stuff in user space?
< 1320504036 294220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. but not that
< 1320504040 656926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320504237 774054 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't NT4 in fact move some stuff back into kernel space for speeds.
< 1320504278 21228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, perhaps
< 1320504306 250051 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The graphics device interface handles image management for the monitor and printers. It provides system calls to allow user programs to write on the monitor or printers in a device-independent way. It also contains the window manager and hardware device drivers. In versions of NT prior to NT 4.0, it was in user space but the performance was disappointing, so Microsoft moved it into the kernel to speed it up."
< 1320504348 805089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, so GDI /is/ kernel? I'd always wondered about that
< 1320504381 210769 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320504397 160777 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random web-quote, so take with a grain of salt; also about NT4.
< 1320504399 286995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in modern windows it runs parts in user space again
< 1320504405 381807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the window manager
< 1320504420 316700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parts of the graphics drivers
< 1320504421 781610 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably architectural docs in MSDN.
< 1320504422 663847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the window manager isn't in GDI
< 1320504444 636664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it said so above
< 1320504458 794331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320504460 406094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It also contains the window manager and hardware device drivers."
< 1320504470 945659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not user-visible that it's in GDI
< 1320504475 745372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1320504507 967075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vista/7 there is dwm.exe (unrelated to dwm on *nix) which is the compositing "Desktop Window Manager" iirc
< 1320504574 638851 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320504619 559621 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win7 has funny permissions things; sometimes Synergy clicks will not let you switch focus to some window, or to send key/mouse events when switched, if it's somehow... different.
< 1320504677 460820 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. the photoalbum creation software from this one printing company was like that, for some unfathomable reason.
< 1320506338 545739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320506823 566302 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that one of the major security holes in Windows was in a parser for image files.
< 1320506841 184435 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, folks, code injection in image files.
< 1320507773 505494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: but WMF was an image format in the same sense that vim or TECO is a text editor
< 1320507782 442408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more of a programming language for describing images
< 1320507800 222667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably /shouldn't/ have had an FFI, though
< 1320507869 835164 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as we're in this channel...
< 1320507884 939806 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was its computational class? (sans the ill-conceived FFI)
< 1320507906 704959 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it's basically a serialized list of GDI function calls
< 1320508051 177916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: think an LBA that can't take inputs
< 1320508676 133735 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320508879 569791 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320508930 207836 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320509276 440304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seems an odd place for a security bug
< 1320509284 199905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Windows.
< 1320509451 69144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320509463 249658 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320509542 642217 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does windows have butlers to great you at each security hole?
< 1320509562 668984 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p
< 1320509601 344037 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Dr Watson count?
< 1320509602 122245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you idiot, that's not what butlers do.
< 1320509614 754184 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has doormen
< 1320509619 540538 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to the Windows Font Parser. Which kernel subsystem would you like access to?"
< 1320509626 567106 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1320509838 897193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :q
< 1320509839 408421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1320509890 499479 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1320509890 810089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1320509896 762899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320509897 680489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1320509899 660342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1320509900 180899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner said 9s ago: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1320509903 857565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1320509904 248915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages.
< 1320509906 281906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he;lp
< 1320509920 824909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that was ridiculous
< 1320509943 955854 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the point exactly
< 1320509945 773375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i didnt follow the instructions
< 1320509950 150354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg lambdabot @messages
< 1320509954 637768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay now i see them
< 1320509959 508921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the best messages.
< 1320509984 423416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:31:39:  Does the people managing the account for HackageDB have UNIX mail? I send a UNIX message to them and I don't know if it work.
< 1320509985 660352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::')
< 1320510056 729927 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you going to the bonfire tonight?
< 1320510078 894148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made the MonoidicT monad transformer.    newtype MonoidicT a m b = MonoidicT { runMonoidicT :: m (a, b) };    I also made the Monad instance for   Monoid t => Monad ((,) t)
< 1320510098 847517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: WriterT
< 1320510123 125043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does Writer do?
< 1320510132 560391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No, I'm plotting to destroy the universe because I'm a grouch who hates fun.
< 1320510146 460133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft bonfire night!
< 1320510151 356001 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minefire night.
< 1320510153 830046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minefight.
< 1320510158 129930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a supremely vague question ...
< 1320510166 62415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed it is
< 1320510169 346964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, cool, that means I can go without fear of destroying the universe
< 1320510171 303809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you help me formulate a better question?
< 1320510193 8346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather that it's some sort of monad that lets you produce intermediate results
< 1320510204 628887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure of the details, or whether or not that description is confusingly misleading
< 1320510226 298909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Writer w a is a monad if w is a monoid
< 1320510228 149609 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes it is similar. But I used the  Monoid t => Monad ((,) t)  monad.
< 1320510253 670596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just (w,a) underneath; return a = (mempty,a); (w,a) >>= f = let (w',b) = f a in (mappend w w', b)
< 1320510258 783210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you can use it to e.g. produce a log
< 1320510264 219663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tell" adds to the monoid
< 1320510269 722755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell "doing a"; a; tell "doing b"; b
< 1320510271 842156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1320510277 779108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell ["doing a"]; a; tell ["doing b"]; b
< 1320510282 932442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Writer [String] whateverbreturns
< 1320510291 443314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run it and get the final result plus the [String] out of it
< 1320510293 418519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end
< 1320510297 860466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and tell itself takes a monadic value as argument?
< 1320510301 99593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WriterT is like that but a transformer
< 1320510303 754773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...no
< 1320510335 124121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, could I convert ["doing a"] to Just "doing a"?
< 1320510338 392636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise for the second
< 1320510344 406500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up with Just "doing b"?
< 1320510367 432626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I'm not sure you understand how either monoids or monads work at all...
< 1320510407 49261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sort-of understand Haskell monads, and category theory monoids
< 1320510416 835972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't combine the category theory idea with the Haskell you're sohwing
< 1320510423 343159 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had a instance Monoid t => Applicative ((,) t) but had no Monad instance so I made one up by:   join (x, (y, z)) = (x |*| y, z);
< 1320510432 166726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what type do you think tell is
< 1320510445 290060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where |*| is infix operator for mappend)
< 1320510455 994294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm, is List an instance of Monoid, that defines append as some sort of named operator?
< 1320510466 13242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may have been what I'm missing
< 1320510468 17390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kind List
< 1320510469 244394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type constructor or class `List'
< 1320510477 125549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kind [Int]
< 1320510478 68566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1320510485 35443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Monoid
< 1320510485 528234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monoid a where
< 1320510485 678765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    mempty  :: a
< 1320510485 842415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    mappend :: a -> a -> a
< 1320510485 894811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    mconcat :: [a] -> a
< 1320510486 750635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For list monoid: mempty = []; mappend = (++);
< 1320510499 735427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mconcat is derived, I take it?
< 1320510512 632771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a default value
< 1320510517 48236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr mappend mempty
< 1320510520 551804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mconcat is derived automatically but you can override it to make it more efficiently
< 1320510522 358019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I think I understand now
< 1320510539 731073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreting the operation on a monoid as "append" is the Haskellism I'm mising
< 1320510541 302933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*missing
< 1320510542 373735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runWriter (tell ["fooing bars"] >> tell ["done fooing bars", "it was great"])
< 1320510543 431933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ((),["fooing bars","done fooing bars","it was great"])
< 1320510547 910817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematically, there's no reason it has to correspond to that at all
< 1320510549 883973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runWriter (tell ["fooing bars"] >> tell ["done fooing bars", "it was great"] >> return 99)
< 1320510550 989649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (99,["fooing bars","done fooing bars","it was great"])
< 1320510557 499661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made the instance Category c => Monoid (c t t)
< 1320510559 720072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd prefer it be "empty" and (<>)
< 1320510586 238587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to monoids made out of, say, 0 and addition
< 1320510602 698680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would not support that :)
< 1320510603 449570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is such a monoid in Haskell; it is the Sum monoid
< 1320510604 70879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which don't fit the Haskell idea too well
< 1320510615 874331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those fit into the "haskell idea" perfectly
< 1320510622 523741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the names are historical and bad
< 1320510624 483373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're expressible in Haskell
< 1320510629 114948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For multiplication you need a Product monoid
< 1320510632 919367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "Writer" is a bit of a silly name for it
< 1320510642 819691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is Writer related?
< 1320510645 227105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writer isn't a monoid
< 1320510660 390105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it applies to monoids
< 1320510663 878264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's silly to say that something that happens to /use/ monoids constitutes part of Haskell's idea of what a monoid is
< 1320510670 148514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1320510682 460494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that Writer is also a fairly legacy name :P
< 1320510686 758491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of dual to Reader
< 1320510687 673583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's evidence of Haskell's idea, rather than being part of the idea
< 1320510689 466407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the reason it's named that
< 1320510692 197581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. effect rather than cause
< 1320510693 28326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reader = (->))
< 1320510718 791793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Reader actually operate on? being equivalent to (->) is too heavily Haskell-golfed for me to work it out mentally
< 1320510764 566089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reader r a ~ r -> a
< 1320510767 593584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a newtype wrapper
< 1320510776 42855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a (e ->) monad; it is:  return = const; fmap = (.); join f x = f x x;  (I worked it out on paper at first and found it is the same thing)
< 1320510789 481307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the instance Monad ((->) r) is identical to the instance Monad (Reader r)
< 1320510798 304706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's called Reader because it lets you pass around one bit of mutable state implicitly
< 1320510799 989238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1320510801 759336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's called Reader because it lets you pass around one bit of IMmutable state implicitly
< 1320510802 412941 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use the module Control.Monad.Reader for the (e ->) monad.
< 1320510816 758029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah right, that doesn't really fit with my idea of what a reverse of Writer would be
< 1320510821 484046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagined it taking elements from a list
< 1320510823 309352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1320510824 431528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: me neither, that's why I said "sort of" :)
< 1320510830 567461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the Supply monad
< 1320510835 13257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elements from a list)
< 1320510839 8003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't in the stdlib
< 1320510864 324217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the monad that Haskell calls Reader came up in a CS lecture, btw
< 1320510867 173758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, sometimes is the use of using the monadic "join" for functions, so that is usually the reason why I will have import Control.Monad.Reader.
< 1320510876 161531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it calls it (->) too
< 1320510880 451713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dan thought he'd invented it, and called it the "clock monad" as it's what he was using it for
< 1320510880 895962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are instances for both
< 1320510887 112565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, join is really useful on functions
< 1320510889 714075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just duplicates its parameter
< 1320510889 947619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was pretty much just a read-only state monad
< 1320510891 976630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (+) 5
< 1320510893 162595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  10
< 1320510916 682162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure what it takes to think you could have invented a monad so trivial...
< 1320510917 389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what does join do again? I keep forgetting how it relates to >>=
< 1320510921 249725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: likewise
< 1320510922 684003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people can make up the same monads as other people; it is mathematics so such things are possible.
< 1320510924 81964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose lack of Haskell knowledge suffices
< 1320510925 211072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just not having seen it before
< 1320510930 896868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: join = (>>= id)
< 1320510933 913343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: m (m a) -> m a
< 1320510937 537308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... well with a Monad constraint :P
< 1320510941 490526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1320510947 857596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(r -> (r -> a)) -> (r -> a)
< 1320510951 265145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1320510953 683209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, why is that operation useful? and can you define >>= in terms of it?
< 1320510955 442725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a -> b) -> a -> b
< 1320510971 914663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just gave a use for it; and (>>=) can be defined in terms of join and fmap
< 1320510987 524530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't define fmap with just return and join, but all monads are functors anyway, haskell just doesn't realise it
< 1320511008 302878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, join is used in the category theory definition
< 1320511012 836261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of (>>=)
< 1320511015 128358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've seen it but didn't understand it
< 1320511033 437821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you don't understand monads :)
< 1320511035 362094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why is there no fmapM? I'm guessing because fmap doesn't have a defined evaluation order
< 1320511047 281387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I readily admit I don't really fundamentally understand them
< 1320511049 387337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just enough to use them
< 1320511049 608057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.Traversable.mapM
< 1320511050 679376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b (t :: * -> *). (Data.Traversable.Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b)
< 1320511063 478077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor => Foldable => Traversable
< 1320511066 585663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the hierarchy there
< 1320511096 90158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but fmapM doesn't even make sense
< 1320511107 642064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in general
< 1320511112 893686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does in a lot of specific cases
< 1320511116 972065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including some that would have been useful
< 1320511119 695809 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap is general.
< 1320511122 711056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fmapM :: (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (r -> c) -> m (r -> b)
< 1320511127 765271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the (->) monad)
< 1320511132 934849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (->) functor :)
< 1320511138 456439 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty weird to name something after fmap if it isn't general.
< 1320511139 358878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1320511142 80948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fmapM :: (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (r -> a) -> m (r -> b)
< 1320511147 550066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks better
< 1320511154 648918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have a bad definition of better
< 1320511163 333244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the first version was obviously wrong
< 1320511165 270633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's unsafePerformIO :)
< 1320511177 9615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't
< 1320511179 811596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unsafePerformIO
< 1320511180 654645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unsafePerformIO'
< 1320511181 471724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmapM putStrLn :: (String -> a) -> IO (String -> ())
< 1320511191 432013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmapM putStrLn id :: IO (String -> ())
< 1320511198 985371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function you get out of that prints every time it's called
< 1320511225 313036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore not every functor has fmapM qed
< 1320511232 835813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, say, putStrLn "x" is of type IO ()
< 1320511242 88614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why that's any safer than IO (String -> ())
< 1320511257 129970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that's because you don't understand Haskell's IO!
< 1320511280 78351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is a little crazy as monads go, indeed
< 1320511282 712046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not
< 1320511286 543789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't understand it
< 1320511302 544634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO being a monad is practically irrelevant to understanding it, too, it's just a way of using it
< 1320511327 758882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO () is a value describing a side-effectful program that returns (); IO (String -> ()) is a value describing a side-effectful program that returns (a pure function taking a String and returning ())
< 1320511337 170786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say we have m :: IO (String -> ())
< 1320511339 843480 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO being a monad does also make it functor, applicative, and that kind of stuff.
< 1320511353 899897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do f <- m; return (doPureComputationWith f)
< 1320511368 196139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doPureComputationWith calls f ten times, but f magically prints when it's called oops!
< 1320511447 231563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, this is basically a good argument for showing that fmapM doesn't work on (->)
< 1320511456 415768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are a whole load of functors, like Tree, where it would be useful
< 1320511463 808582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact, it's the same argument in both cases
< 1320511470 14253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Traversable exists P:
< 1320511470 995777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that functions don't define an evaluation order
< 1320511472 973252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/P:/:P/
< 1320511477 366049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which /does/ define an evaluation order
< 1320511480 507425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up the instance Alternative IO
< 1320511481 95011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they /did/, there'd be no issue with (->)
< 1320511488 430219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it would
< 1320511491 742970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, you're wrong
< 1320511497 936183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is _no way_ to implement the type I gave without unsafePerformIO
< 1320511500 717206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1320511502 37278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop
< 1320511507 859826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty = fail []; x <|> y = catch x $ \e -> modifyIOError (\z -> if z == userError [] then e else z) y;
< 1320511524 30210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd be called safePerformIO if evaluation order were defined in Haskell
< 1320511525 481295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't
< 1320511539 421938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, order, and existence)
< 1320511539 816401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I give up
< 1320511551 789605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have different mental images of the same thing
< 1320511552 46465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluation order is irrelevant here
< 1320511565 377745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's completely irrelevant to the question of whether to be pure or not
< 1320511575 627606 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made up a instance MonadPlus IO but it does not follow the right zero law and also doesn't follow the monoid laws either!
< 1320511578 929998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you have an impure language, then unsafePerformIO is safe too
< 1320511580 872658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's lazy
< 1320511583 925006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320511591 625257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an orthogonal issue
< 1320511639 103248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MonadPlus for Parsec does not follow the right zero law either.
< 1320511662 789781 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It follows the left zero law; maybe the right zero law should be removed from the documentation?
< 1320511665 362491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to logreading!
< 1320511668 747101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:34:54:  i met a burglar
< 1320511668 904587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:21:  chatted with him for 5 minutes, went home and called the cops. will prolly be stabbed soon enough :D
< 1320511668 956953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::')
< 1320511683 76346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what does that smiley mean?
< 1320511688 609617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crying with happiness?
< 1320511705 307481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means the world is beautiful, or something
< 1320511717 300326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes i suppose that's the literal meaning
< 1320511725 780508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ' looks like just a single tear to me
< 1320511736 916753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is
< 1320511743 869238 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::")
< 1320511744 224578 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think my instance Alternative IO is correct?
< 1320511747 356373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because trying to render all the tears doesn't work well in ASCII
< 1320511755 693903 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::''''''''''''''''''''''''''')
< 1320511760 575677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I mean?
< 1320511775 395746 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'''')''''''
< 1320511783 4432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''''''''''''
< 1320511785 350700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puddle of tears
< 1320511819 141470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a language that had one command, "interpret input as brainfuck program", would it be Turing-Complete?
< 1320511837 828403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, according to most definitions
< 1320511842 182306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320511845 542845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to most definitions
< 1320511846 497684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the other definitions
< 1320511854 799599 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe
< 1320511858 285973 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Many people have asked about things like that before already.
< 1320511865 588945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's meta-TC
< 1320511873 541542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there already is an esolang like that for that purpose anyways!
< 1320511875 607460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't even
< 1320511876 218776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it can express an interp for a TC language
< 1320511882 832090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: see here:
< 1320511889 740375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had this argument before, but I can't remember the conclusion
< 1320511893 598130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: v
< 1320511895 7500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92
< 1320511950 444597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the conclusion between people who aren't messing about on an IRC channel appears to be that models without input are better anyway so it's irrelevant
< 1320511961 194349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320511966 177689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i only have one source for that :P
< 1320511971 538071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I forget who it is
< 1320511974 569803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have disconnected
< 1320511979 141312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: amazing
< 1320511979 298800 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps am just lagging
< 1320511982 146072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you're still here
< 1320512031 122363 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh there we go
< 1320512031 175283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the responses just flooded in
< 1320512062 657239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the MonadicT transformer with list monad to make like the probability distributions, since it is clear what join should mean.
< 1320512086 122421 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadicT?
< 1320512121 89549 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it is called MonoidicT
< 1320512123 894329 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a mistake
< 1320512136 146893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually called:  newtype MonoidicT a m b = MonoidicT { runMonoidicT :: m (a, b) };
< 1320512139 275817 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be more exact.
< 1320512165 542059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still just WriterT afaict :P
< 1320512176 234014 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also the    instance Monoid t => Monad ((,) t)   join (x, (y, z)) = (x |*| y, z);    (where |*| is really mappend)
< 1320512222 383824 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just Writer isn't it
< 1320512246 13070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already the instance Monoid t => Applicative ((,) t) but they forgot the Monad
< 1320512250 361758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320513819 864020 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320514441 572893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320514664 801000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't see how you can use i for true at all.
< 1320514697 161145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure you _can_ convert i and `ki to k and `ki
< 1320514770 237248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ix = x, ``kix = i
< 1320514772 869743 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ix: not found
< 1320514788 245529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :```kix`ki = `ki
< 1320514789 19534 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa
< 1320514789 927288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``kix`ki: not found
< 1320514795 771134 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly I see a crazy way to do it
< 1320514798 941711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :``ix`ki = `x`ki
< 1320514800 851836 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ix`ki: not found
< 1320514808 398882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus we need x = `kk
< 1320514808 981846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1320514822 687580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :```kk`ki
< 1320514823 138810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you _could_, like, add an initial space or something :P
< 1320514824 646845 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``kk`ki: not found
< 1320514825 430593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right?
< 1320514840 213753 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : `hi hakcego
< 1320514843 256175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : `thanks
< 1320514848 79201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO HACKEGO: ``i`kk`ki = k; ```ki`kk`ki = `ki
< 1320514851 391920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe.
< 1320514866 335577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SO HA
< 1320514885 961717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah looks right
< 1320514998 851938 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But backwards...?
< 1320515010 802926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall a theorem that if you have two LC terms in weak (head?) normal form, which are _not_ equivalent, then it is possible to find something to apply them to that gives any desired result.
< 1320515040 587933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what is backwards?
< 1320515054 873557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's either an astonishing or obvious theorem, if true
< 1320515058 44555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which
< 1320515079 264870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some sense it's obvious because they're not equivalent, in another sense it's astonishing that you can... get useful results out of that?
< 1320515149 648195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some of the vagueness may be in the exact requirements needed :P
< 1320515165 806498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320515193 330840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was in barendregt's famous LC book
< 1320515238 339468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drecht
< 1320515246 412113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320515255 62192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Lambda Calculus -- Its Syntax and Semantics"
< 1320515320 712027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not beta-eta equivalent, was probably one of the requirements
< 1320515381 702169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the weak normal form stuff was to ensure you had enough in it to not infinitely loop
< 1320515384 904425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1320515404 389887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly it involved having different types
< 1320515413 184891 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320515430 529824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i and `ki are both fully normalizable
< 1320515443 708942 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320515478 903691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: different types to the single type the LC has? :-)
< 1320515547 921109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the book had a lot about type systems for LC
< 1320515551 711711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "typed lambda calculus" and "untyped lambda calculus" both exist
< 1320515564 960204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know
< 1320515567 299457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact, without an explicit "untyped", "typed" seems to be implied among actual computer scientists
< 1320515569 485652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they like types
< 1320515582 235197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used it to prove nontrivial facts about untyped LC itself, iirc
< 1320515605 20069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think that's true at all, and suspects you might be using "actual computer scientists" to mean "computer scientists whose work filters down to me"
< 1320515615 50220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it seems fishy to me
< 1320515638 445192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean "computer scientists whose seminars I attend"
< 1320515642 778223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :p
< 1320515654 190387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, untyped LC is a bit uninteresting nowadays
< 1320515657 373245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never seen "the lambda calculus" used to mean anything but the untyped version, at least without context
< 1320515662 633307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't form a nontrivial category
< 1320515684 74127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're using LC as the basis of something, TLC tends to work better
< 1320515699 316035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if you go down the other route, you seem to end up with Ursala)
< 1320515716 399191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one of the type systems was one which had the property that a term had a type iff it had a terminating reduction, iirc
< 1320515723 956210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ursala has types, sort of :P
< 1320515738 693424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, I figured it was something like that
< 1320515747 58580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that means _finding_ a type is undecidable
< 1320515757 296455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm pretty sure you can make a type system that types /everything/ in LC reasonably, but -- yeah, that
< 1320515762 85584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for normalized terms, it was possible
< 1320515789 469133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc the type was preserved by reductions -- both ways
< 1320515824 520995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: one of the type systems was one which had the property that a term had a type iff it had a terminating reduction, iirc
< 1320515840 782895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it terminates, you essentially know the possible types are the same as for the result
< 1320515841 369494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does this include terms that depend on partial reductions of non-terminating terms?
< 1320515845 223549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I dunno whether that's possible
< 1320515850 6924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, of course it isn't
< 1320515869 592132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Proposed criticism of lambda calculus
< 1320515869 753010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01-Nov-2008: I suggest adding a section "Controversy in lambda calculus" because it seems like overkill on fairly useless stuff. I still ponder "Why Johnny can't program" & "Why Johnny can't de-virus" & "Why Johnny can't word search" etc. I think subjects like lambda calculus created a nerd-iverse (re: "universe") that wasted hours on useless math games."
< 1320515875 414530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- [[Talk:Lambda calculus]]]
< 1320515878 687391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/]]]/]]/
< 1320515879 758158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on what you mean by non-terminating
< 1320515883 243790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh
< 1320515914 48141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My view is to cite sources that consider lambda calculus to be a limited concept that thwarted the expansion of computer science in other areas. For example, it has become common knowledge that languages are easier to program when using the standard syntax of algebra (but with words as variable names, not just x/y/z). The vast majority of all software systems originally written in LISP have been re-written in procedural, non-list languages."
< 1320515915 493868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have something reducing to head normal forms while subparts never terminate
< 1320515916 409715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this comment...
< 1320515927 98227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1320515961 147906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320516043 839808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about my tendency to lag out
< 1320516070 699947 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently that person is rather ignorant of, well, functional languages newer than 1980.
< 1320516088 914455 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or older than sometime in the 60s, for that matter.
< 1320516247 514548 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320516313 320044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type of \f x -> f (f x)  was something like ((a -> b) /\ (b -> c)) -> a -> c
< 1320516326 677433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the principal type
< 1320516334 746877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully normalized terms had those
< 1320516356 743523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, Stanislav has managed to turn McCarthy's death into his most intolerable blog post yet.
< 1320516388 824710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320516400 830576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, is that the same Mathnerd314.
< 1320516435 809441 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wait, did you just bring up my favourite function?
< 1320516449 507270 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers reading scrollback.
< 1320516470 196417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for only head normalizable terms, non-terminating subterms would get the special type omega
< 1320516504 707883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was only allowed to the left of -> or something like that
< 1320516553 993419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it was just the simplest example i could think of of a function which requires an intersection of types in that type system
< 1320516561 270178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So Y would get the correct type, but its subterms would involve omega?
< 1320516594 677027 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, so much scrollback.
< 1320516599 100179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well since it's not fully normalizable it may not have a principal type
< 1320516607 217681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right.
< 1320516614 233261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would have a type for every occasion where it "works"
< 1320516618 932085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1320516625 180937 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants a polymorphic \x y -> x (x y); why do we need all these fancy tricks?
< 1320516641 763482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any fancy trick
< 1320516696 202064 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's pretty simple, actually.
< 1320516704 995740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x y -> x (x y)
< 1320516705 747028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (t -> t) -> t -> t
< 1320516714 755171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the problem
< 1320516739 411800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that there are ways to apply the untyped \x y -> x (x y) which don't follow that type
< 1320516770 787404 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty let f :: forall a f. (forall b. b -> f b) -> a -> f (f a); f x y = x (x y) in f
< 1320516771 646047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (forall b. b -> f b) -> a -> f (f a)
< 1320516772 135947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I will call this function 2
< 1320516787 492510 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f :: forall a f. (forall b. b -> f b) -> a -> f (f a); f x y = x (x y) in f Just True
< 1320516788 621511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just (Just True)
< 1320516798 579689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well of course it's the church numeral 2
< 1320516802 299678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320516826 448794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, people experimenting with Web of Lies, did you come to any conclusions but "it doesn't run on modern Linux"?
< 1320516867 376170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would come to conclusions if I could get it working
< 1320516873 736036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just waiting for you to fix the bug :P
< 1320516890 981730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think up a fix that will almost certainly work, but feels a bit insecure
< 1320516896 906502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to only partially drop permissions in the main process
< 1320516904 328076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then undrop them again when that bit of code reads
< 1320516931 823352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't like leaving around root perms even in the ssuid
< 1320516941 350486 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to the bonfire
< 1320516943 133631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye
< 1320516948 93204 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: AWAAAAY!
< 1320516989 494730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because someone who can exploit a security bug in WOL could call the undrop command themselves
< 1320517014 185831 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320517042 476738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, could you somehow drop root privs /at clone() time/?
< 1320517049 763878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the relevant process is /never/ owned by root
< 1320517075 334188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that fakeinit actually needs the root privs, it calls mknod a lot
< 1320517078 830661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or, better: if your effective UID isn't root (but your real UID still is), do spawned processes get owned by your effective UID?
< 1320517081 396851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the processes are dropped by the time the process under test runs
< 1320517090 865224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*perms are dropped
< 1320517091 222916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change that before forking or w/e, then change it back
< 1320517094 807480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so by the second clone, the perms aren't there
< 1320517117 547107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there are three processes: weboflies, fakeinit, process under test
< 1320517130 637589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies forks fakeinit as root; fakeinit forks the process after dropping perms, so as nonroot
< 1320517164 142756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320517173 759453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see a flaw in your reasoning
< 1320517176 638311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weboflies then can't read the process under test's perms on any computers but mine
< 1320517179 466853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason
< 1320517192 481222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how are /any/ /proc/N/fd directories owned by non-root in a typical linux system by your logic?
< 1320517199 416450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all done by dropping privileges from root and forking, at some level
< 1320517217 98048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not trying to make an argument here, I'm just stating facts
< 1320517232 391364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the observed conclusion doesn't seem to follow from the actual facts, which is why I'm confused
< 1320517235 825501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but your reasoning for the bug has been "/proc/N/fd is owned by root because it started off like that"
< 1320517243 167697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you've just shown absurd, I think
< 1320517245 918506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320517262 533646 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PART :#esoteric
< 1320517276 898367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why don't you check the perms on /proc/fd for init, gdm/kdm/getty/equivalent, and your shell?
< 1320517297 155616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do it, except the problem doesn't happen on my computer
< 1320517323 851669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/1/fd
< 1320517324 9163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root root 0 Nov  5 18:20 /proc/1/fd
< 1320517324 72991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/$(pgrep slim)/fd
< 1320517324 125805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root root 0 Nov  5 16:09 /proc/632/fd
< 1320517324 126051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/$(pgrep bash | tail -n 1)/fd
< 1320517324 853544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /proc/7274/fd: No such file or directory
< 1320517326 858204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/$(pgrep bash | tail -n 2 | head -n 1)/fd
< 1320517328 859842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /proc/7276/fd: No such file or directory
< 1320517335 528613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1320517336 987802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/self/fd
< 1320517337 103771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov  5 18:21 /proc/self/fd
< 1320517355 122811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ps
< 1320517355 242023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PID TTY          TIME CMD
< 1320517355 294663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7244 pts/1    00:00:00 bash
< 1320517355 294849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7282 pts/1    00:00:00 ps
< 1320517355 294958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/7244/fd
< 1320517355 625518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov  5 18:20 /proc/7244/fd
< 1320517372 192659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, by "shell" I meant along the lines of "GNOME shell"
< 1320517377 179833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320517378 330542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is slim the login process?
< 1320517382 323055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slim is my DM
< 1320517392 271889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can check ck-launch-session, xfce4-session, xfwm4...
< 1320517394 356407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which do you want :p
< 1320517400 989423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ cat ~/.xinitrc
< 1320517401 106829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh
< 1320517401 158502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec ck-launch-session startxfce4
< 1320517421 771918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whichever one gets execed most directly by the login process
< 1320517422 589758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ck-launch-session actually isn't alive any more
< 1320517434 591988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the processes dying is making this a bit harder to trace
< 1320517436 715511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That would be... ~/.xinitrc, probably
< 1320517442 486809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  632 ?        00:00:00 slim
< 1320517442 604820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  639 tty7     00:04:44 X
< 1320517442 657845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  642 ?        00:00:00 udevd
< 1320517442 658050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  643 ?        00:00:00 udevd
< 1320517442 658160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  661 ?        00:00:00 dhcpcd
< 1320517443 205238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  662 ?        00:00:00 sh
< 1320517444 990116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  674 ?        00:00:00 dbus-launch
< 1320517446 994045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  675 ?        00:00:00 dbus-daemon
< 1320517448 996855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  679 ?        00:00:00 xfconfd
< 1320517450 861704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  684 ?        00:00:00 ssh-agent
< 1320517453 1174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  694 ?        00:00:00 xfce4-session
< 1320517455 7687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check the sh, dbus-launch, and xfce4-session
< 1320517485 231805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/662/fd # sh
< 1320517485 351760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov  5 16:09 /proc/662/fd
< 1320517485 404057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/674/fd # dbus-launch
< 1320517485 404283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov  5 16:10 /proc/674/fd
< 1320517485 404394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lhd /proc/694/fd # xfce4-session
< 1320517486 189207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Nov  5 16:10 /proc/694/fd
< 1320517510 389664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha
< 1320517519 97095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you clone from fakeinit, do you remember to specify you want a new fd namespace?
< 1320517536 924527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, those exist?
< 1320517545 93314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, but I'll have to check
< 1320517547 846641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1320517557 974072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  pid = clone(child_handler,
< 1320517558 54047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              (char*)p1stack + sizeof(p1stack) - sizeof(void*),
< 1320517558 107801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              CLONE_PTRACE, argv);
< 1320517558 690426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I need to leave stdin/stdout/stderr connected, ofc, but a new fd namespace would do that)
< 1320517559 208275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't
< 1320517562 152125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix that :)
< 1320517562 859595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320517577 844940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I do
< 1320517580 147621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a negative flag
< 1320517585 841948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1320517589 352669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320517592 19771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new FD namespace is done by /not/ specifying CLONE_FILES
< 1320517598 629626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed
< 1320517603 213267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gah, that seemed /so obvious/
< 1320517606 309194 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have the classes: MonoidPlus, Group, MonoidMinus, MonoidNorm, MonoidPlusNorm, Semiring, and Ring. When doing probability distributions, you could generalize it to not necessarily proper probabilities, if you have a type which is both Ring and MonoidPlusNorm. Now you can join probabilities, normalize it, and so on. You could use complex numbers if you want to.
< 1320517626 404219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hate it when I have a really good aha moment and it isn't the bug
< 1320517632 429761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320517634 12548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when it's an /actual bug/ still, but not the one I'm trying to fix
< 1320517656 610661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't
< 1320517695 706371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :       CLONE_PID (obsolete)
< 1320517695 859894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              If CLONE_PID is set, the child process is created with the same process ID as the calling process.  This is good for hacking the system,  but  other‐
< 1320517695 923190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              wise of not much use.  Since 2.3.21 this flag can be specified only by the system boot process (PID 0).  It disappeared in Linux 2.5.16.
< 1320517722 75803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I end up fixing loads of bugs when looking for other bugs
< 1320517727 8541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I find it useful
< 1320517776 917470 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320517792 350641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gah, there doesn't look like anything relevant in man 2 clone
< 1320517807 362909 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320517807 767714 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320517807 820263 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320517825 960504 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No context-reading again, but relevant? http://www.mail-archive.com/git-commits-head@vger.kernel.org/msg11654.html -- it's a 2.6.22 patch which makes /proc/N/fd directory have a custom permissions handler which overrides the usual when task_pid(current) == proc_pid(inode). But it could have been removed for all I know.
< 1320517847 12543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting
< 1320517853 806914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds suspiciously relevant
< 1320517854 753139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do task IDs handle again?
< 1320517862 940157 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's of course not something that'd show up in the permissions-as-seen-by-ls.
< 1320517873 565133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: basically the problem is that we have /proc/N owned by someuser but /proc/N/fd owned by root
< 1320517876 166210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have no idea why
< 1320517877 816851 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, away again.)
< 1320517884 872226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :)
< 1320517895 146606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ * /proc/pid/fd needs a special permission handler so that a process can still
< 1320517895 262155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ * access /proc/self/fd after it has executed a setuid().
< 1320517901 641488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, this is sounding very worryingly relevant?
< 1320517938 73721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't think it is relevant; that's covering the case where a process starts suid root or run via sudo, drops permissions, then tries to read /proc/self/fd
< 1320517948 899287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:39:02:  ais523: fmapM :: (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (r -> a) -> m (r -> b)
< 1320517972 963240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM
< 1320517973 856677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b]
< 1320517984 268972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: still, we have a case of dropping permissions from root, and then a child failing to read /proc/N/fd...
< 1320517992 204818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would help if I knew what tasks are
< 1320518028 373198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that that's special-casing something in the existing behaviour, and the existing behaviour is what's relevant
< 1320518040 235534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay
< 1320518089 955935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm racking my brains for things that could be relevant and resolve the inconsistency
< 1320518099 941104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Linux just doesn't like you?
< 1320518101 82412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if pgids or sids were involved, they'd both explain what was happening, but I see no reason for them to be
< 1320518106 142856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *doesn't like you?
< 1320518108 234240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for /me/
< 1320518114 583642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that actually cannot be written
< 1320518122 335340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could be lying! maybe they want everyone else to think you're a crank!
< 1320518124 519449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was my /point/
< 1320518142 372345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, correcting something I said to itself is...
< 1320518144 778800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY
< 1320518145 393018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my system, I can read the process-under-test's FDs from the main process, but not fakeinit's, which is simple and makes sense
< 1320518154 469189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: read onwards :P
< 1320518169 224696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not correcting to itself; the referent of "you" is different in each case
< 1320518180 134645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :corrections are textual!
< 1320518183 848801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it was a substitution on meaning not words
< 1320518190 293965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why I can't use a semantic correction
< 1320518192 579560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a semantic mistake
< 1320518194 611743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have s/you/me/'d in the correction, so that the resulting statement I would have made would have been correct
< 1320518328 219536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it isn't a correction at the semantic level!
< 1320518355 920099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it'd be great if there were a better channel than #esoteric for "weird corner cases of Linux people don't generally care about"
< 1320518463 884782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320518473 95286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even see where the corner case /is/, though
< 1320518486 107528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is basically "Linux breaks after I do [huge laundry list of terrible things]"
< 1320518490 333620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320518491 568455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anybody can solve that problem but you
< 1320518504 979718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't solve it directly, because the problem doesn't exist on my system
< 1320518539 230067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want an ssh account? :-P
< 1320518544 64270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose the simplest test is to write a process that is originally run as root, then does setresuid, fork, exec, and the process it execs hangs a while (sleep 100 would do)
< 1320518550 836629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then check the perms there
< 1320518566 884063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need root access as well as an ssh account to test this, and that'd be a bit of a crazy thing to give me
< 1320518588 21299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and a very crazy thing to give anyone else)
< 1320518634 28488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v){setresuid(0,0,0);if(!fork()){execlp(v[1],v+1);};sleep(100);}
< 1320518639 332243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ran as ./a.out sleep 100
< 1320518640 579269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not dropping perms
< 1320518640 632129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look good?
< 1320518644 397533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, er
< 1320518647 274661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/0/1000/
< 1320518647 808635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to set them to some values other than 0
< 1320518651 571140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my user accoutn)
< 1320518652 585863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :account
< 1320518658 158031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that looks reasonable
< 1320518668 579084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming execlp does what you think it does; I can never remember which of the execs are which
< 1320518675 665427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be execvp?
< 1320518680 795484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're giving it an array as argument
< 1320518685 314951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1320518692 317768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, execvp, I just checked
< 1320518699 962684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :run that with sleep 100 as args, as root
< 1320518705 727933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see what happens
< 1320518726 918051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh.c:1:48: error: subscripted value is neither array nor pointer nor vector
< 1320518727 69313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o;ps
< 1320518734 150351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot my K&R type declaration of v
< 1320518737 218476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to give argv a type
< 1320518743 487347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v)char**v;{setresuid(0,0,0);if(!fork()){execvp(v[1],v+1);};sleep(100);}
< 1320518746 733293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im good programer
< 1320518758 453429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, maybe it should print its pid
< 1320518762 603392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on both halves of the fork
< 1320518766 695730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely obvious anyway, but it'd help
< 1320518891 354587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v)char**v;{setresuid(1000,1000,1000);if(c=fork())printf("%d %d\n",c,getpid());else execvp(v[1],v+1);sleep(100);}
< 1320518892 364801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go
< 1320518912 425242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7583{,/fd}
< 1320518912 581179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 elliott root 0 Nov  5 18:47 /proc/7583
< 1320518912 634041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root    root 0 Nov  5 18:47 /proc/7583/fd
< 1320518912 634198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7584{,/fd}
< 1320518912 634310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 elliott root 0 Nov  5 18:47 /proc/7584
< 1320518913 214939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott root 0 Nov  5 18:47 /proc/7584/fd
< 1320518914 849123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what?
< 1320518921 857915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, elliott:root is expected
< 1320518925 169532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't change the gid
< 1320518927 703262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed
< 1320518947 235874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 7583's result is v. interesting
< 1320518954 13805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose I should try clone rather than fork
< 1320518957 224630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7583's result is consistent with my system
< 1320518962 206730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's the next thing to try
< 1320518973 878960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even give CLONE_PTRACE as an arg, I guess
< 1320518975 154296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to regret my chosen coding style already
< 1320518990 550220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do main(c,char**v), incidentally?
< 1320518992 722684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't that freeze the child?
< 1320518993 337878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no
< 1320519004 692884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, CLONE_PTRACE only does anything if you're being ptraced yourself
< 1320519009 200439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay
< 1320519011 159945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of PTRACE_TRACEME
< 1320519033 596486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :child_stack can be NULL, right?
< 1320519035 830969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLONE_PTRACE basically means "debugged-ness propagates over the clone"; weboflies injects it into other process's clone calls
< 1320519047 909245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it isn't for me; the docs say it can't be
< 1320519053 268493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should I make it?
< 1320519056 351941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently it can be anyway, it's just undocumented
< 1320519060 517262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320519061 815321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it a char array
< 1320519067 732814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it NULL out of laze
< 1320519069 431400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you can pass arbitrary arguments to the fn with clone?
< 1320519080 263410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's three arguments /after/ the varargs?
< 1320519085 383223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the one void*
< 1320519087 5911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not varargs
< 1320519090 70720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok.
< 1320519091 205437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 int flags, void *arg, ...
< 1320519091 323293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 /* pid_t *ptid, struct user_desc *tls, pid_t *ctid */ );
< 1320519094 933320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still wtf though
< 1320519098 545484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is, but only to hide the fact that those three args are optional
< 1320519103 272170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320519106 794571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not ... as in varargs, but as in stdarg
< 1320519113 958567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not stdarg
< 1320519118 24672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever was used before varargs was invented
< 1320519155 518984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, strace injects CLONE_PTRACE into other process's fork/clone calls too
< 1320519159 6937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(v)char**v;{execvp(v[1],v+1);}
< 1320519159 106215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v)char**v;{setresuid(1000,1000,1000);printf("%d %d\n",clone(f,0,CLONE_PTRACE,v),getpid());sleep(100);}
< 1320519165 410330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even changing fork to clone for that purpose
< 1320519169 390896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320519182 391980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the interface is identical syscall-wise; just different in glibc)
< 1320519200 888324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh no, clone() is returning -1
< 1320519210 812337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you can't put NULL there
< 1320519212 265942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in glibc
< 1320519215 318967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in the direct kernel syscall
< 1320519216 632941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, probably
< 1320519219 657696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll allocate a char array
< 1320519223 504871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bytes should it be, roughly?
< 1320519231 984689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough for one exec call
< 1320519236 707430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 100 will easily be enough
< 1320519246 561135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it 512
< 1320519247 17530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _GNU_SOURCE
< 1320519247 174965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include 
< 1320519247 234184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(v)char**v;{execvp(v[1],v+1);}
< 1320519247 286627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v)char**v;{char s[1024];setresuid(1000,1000,1000);printf("%d %d\n",clone(f,s,CLONE_PTRACE,v),getpid());sleep(100);}
< 1320519248 953498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful
< 1320519259 542165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you put it /on the stack/?
< 1320519264 678424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that thing static!
< 1320519269 306559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7739{,/fd}
< 1320519269 427770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 elliott root 0 Nov  5 18:53 /proc/7739
< 1320519269 488819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root    root 0 Nov  5 18:53 /proc/7739/fd
< 1320519269 541620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7740{,/fd}
< 1320519269 541777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-xr-xr-x 8 elliott root 0 Nov  5 18:53 /proc/7740
< 1320519270 223722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott root 0 Nov  5 18:53 /proc/7740/fd
< 1320519271 560807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what happens if you put a stack on the stack
< 1320519274 225939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems sort-of wrong
< 1320519276 299326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it works, apparently!
< 1320519294 588321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, so now we have to figure out what weboflies is doing differently
< 1320519306 2795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's formatted slightly more sanely, for one
< 1320519318 491669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try removing all whitespace
< 1320519353 373860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that'll matter
< 1320519420 991440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: am i meant to be reading weboflies.c here, or are you? :-)
< 1320519493 503195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite familiar with it already, and I'm trying to guess what's different
< 1320519494 941668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from memory
< 1320519517 113667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does weboflies do?
< 1320519549 848746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: make people go insane
< 1320519566 72971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, catch flies
< 1320519578 867754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1320519584 920596 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it go about the former?
< 1320519613 922698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: by directly twiddling bits in their process's memory
< 1320519615 796688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: catching lots of bugs and then making people figure out what's causing them
< 1320519619 753106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it?
< 1320519621 965797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flies are bugs!!!!!!
< 1320519630 801396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :webobugs
< 1320519632 230430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1320519632 838295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ways that have a tendency to confuse Linux
< 1320519820 901388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Zambia-related_topics
< 1320519822 278865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...
< 1320519912 825531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :airports, birds, settlements
< 1320520193 457336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lists_of_Zambia-related_topics
< 1320520195 176805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :least loved article
< 1320520900 22246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i submit that the wikipedia list system will eventually evolve sentience when it becomes so complicated that it requires a TC kind/sort system.
< 1320520913 865531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320520936 400268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320521271 832283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, I usually use whatever comes handy, but I'm sure there are other approaches — like, for example, trying something almost unusable first.
< 1320521276 257193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1320521282 813883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen on haskell-cafe
< 1320521538 800511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320522044 674497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any ideas about weboflies?
< 1320522094 901533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm a little stumped
< 1320522111 475061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OMG, the Node folks just keep on giving. Get this: ASYNCHRONOUS testing. http://vowsjs.org/
< 1320522114 199038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webscale tests!
< 1320522115 119809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me make sure it isn't a schrödingbug
< 1320522177 369917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's working just fine for me, still
< 1320522283 826181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could give you root ssh access to a VM
< 1320522387 87732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, might help
< 1320522395 862220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a pity that weboflies repels debuggers
< 1320522396 602747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we bo flies here
< 1320522412 46944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I'll set one up... you could set up your own VM, but I guess you don't have a recent iso handy
< 1320522419 179510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320522428 364101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a recent iso handy of /anything/
< 1320522433 422765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, neither do I, but I can download one quickly
< 1320522438 840895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be a 32-bit vm to simplify things
< 1320522449 969248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, qemu, since I don't have VirtualBox installed
< 1320522604 330411 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320522690 631259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, I'll have a VM up in 15 minutes or so
< 1320522727 83326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'm glad you aren't insane enough to give people you only know over the Internet root access to your main computer
< 1320522758 494689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going to, but then I realised I didn't want you to have read access to ~
< 1320522777 574498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's probably a good idea ;)
< 1320522789 563484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not giving me read access to ~
< 1320522791 112708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be something like root identical in every way except that they can't elevate to root or read directories with a certain special bit set
< 1320522798 762742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm amused that you don't mind me having /write/ access to ~, though)
< 1320522812 506499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, the only thing you could do with that is trash things
< 1320522837 406470 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known people who literally have ~ accessible via http.
< 1320522839 364518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could rewrite your .bashrc to change the perms on your home dir so that I could read them, I guess
< 1320522848 632042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: normish had / accessible via http
< 1320522852 89431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't really a normal system
< 1320522861 496685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I don't think you /would/ do that :)
< 1320522871 353112 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, ams has that setup.
< 1320522872 492206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't really think you'd look at ~ either, but it's a bit too readily accessible for me to be happy about it)
< 1320522886 57489 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, ams is anything but normal.
< 1320522890 773537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and I'd feel uneasy having access to it even if I didn't use it
< 1320522902 347075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, home directories should be encrypted loopback filesystems
< 1320522914 978767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem: you'd have to type your private key in on every login
< 1320522927 274299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose password-encrypted would work, actually
< 1320522934 72182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you already have to type a password in on every login.
< 1320522937 49859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320522953 435703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I need a better name for my temporary stuff than ~/Temp
< 1320522965 709168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(needs to be titlecased because ~/Code is permanently ingrained in my brain)
< 1320522975 640210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how temporary?
< 1320522982 235594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good question :)
< 1320522984 704119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use /var/tmp for temporary stuff that needs to persist across reboots
< 1320522987 747876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, the VM HD in question
< 1320522988 30737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /tmp for other temporary stuff
< 1320522998 325792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so temporary that I want it in a system temporary directory
< 1320523001 473360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I probably would put that in /tmp
< 1320523006 925669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't feel any great loss if I rm -r ~/Temp
< 1320523016 53442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ~/Junk is tempting
< 1320523059 974552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a specific directory for things that I want to keep around because they'd be time-consuming to redownload and reunpack, but are too large and unimportant back up
< 1320523065 453216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to back up
< 1320523070 216874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's /var/cache
< 1320523085 766396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why downloaded packages are stored there
< 1320523089 246197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1320523094 284784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not quite the same as /var/cache
< 1320523105 891897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's things like the repo of gnome-games (with entire history)
< 1320523109 15596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why my Keep system is best :)
< 1320523112 265097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my builds of it
< 1320523115 399572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those would go in ~/Keep/YYYY-MM
< 1320523119 476664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't normally build things in /var/cache, do you?
< 1320523124 814115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320523139 89035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2/3) installing vde2                              [######################] 100%
< 1320523139 251738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change /etc/conf.d/vde to your needs.
< 1320523139 304153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vde config files should be placed in /etc/vde, sample files are provided.
< 1320523139 304343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iptables and dhcpd sample files have been installed to '/usr/share/vde2'.
< 1320523139 304453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merge those examples, if needed to the according config files.
< 1320523140 89416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blahh, I hope qemu networking works without doing that
< 1320523146 544604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I anticipate forwarding the ssh port to be a pain
< 1320523154 662930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's vde?
< 1320523161 768006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dependency of qemu
< 1320523163 889903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reverse-tunnel from the VM outwards?
< 1320523175 537833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, exposing it on my local machine outside of the VM
< 1320523182 381633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default networking mode of most VM's doesn't do that
< 1320523190 89838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I see
< 1320523217 121157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu-img create weboflies.qemu2 4G
< 1320523217 281521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Formatting 'weboflies.qemu2', fmt=raw size=4294967296
< 1320523217 333923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ ls -lh
< 1320523217 334175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 0
< 1320523217 334287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 4.0G Nov  5 19:59 weboflies.qemu2
< 1320523218 123213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out qemu2 =/= qcow2
< 1320523236 38532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu-img create -f qcow2 weboflies.qcow2 4G
< 1320523236 140136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Formatting 'weboflies.qcow2', fmt=qcow2 size=4294967296 encryption=off cluster_size=65536
< 1320523236 193202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ ls -lh weboflies.qcow2
< 1320523236 193390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 193K Nov  5 19:59 weboflies.qcow2
< 1320523236 193497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better
< 1320523245 316021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it a sparse file?
< 1320523252 314538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably; it created instantly
< 1320523254 606696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some weboflies test, I was using a sparse ext4
< 1320523264 242345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 4G notional size, but much smaller on disk
< 1320523308 477486 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a sparse file as far as the underlying filesystem is concerned; the logic for doing that is in qemu itself for the qcow2 format.
< 1320523383 925812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: he was talking about the previous raw noe
< 1320523384 534570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I meant in qemu2
< 1320523384 612813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one
< 1320523387 741955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: qcow2
< 1320523389 821414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320523400 27248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so one issue with sparse files is, that they don't decompress well
< 1320523405 471473 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the raw format is just a naive sparse file.
< 1320523414 288372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320523414 664051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they compress just fine, but decompressing tends to actually write out all the zeroes
< 1320523415 159413 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tar -S
< 1320523434 528902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that is good to know
< 1320523441 974855 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU tar records sequences of 0s so it can write it out as a sparse file again using that option.
< 1320523452 568652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't that default?
< 1320523464 296867 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a GNU-specific extension to the format.
< 1320523476 202172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's at record time, not unpack time?
< 1320523479 707072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1320523480 432492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320523482 714165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320523515 637579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you unpack with a non-supporting tar, you basically get a file with a header describing the sparseness and a bunch of bits.
< 1320523551 39684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the format was designed so that, at least in principle, you could use a small C program to unpack that.
< 1320523673 29369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much RAM will you need? :p
< 1320523686 159782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a few megabytes, to run tests
< 1320523701 381730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Linux will even boot with that little :)
< 1320523712 509856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, Arch's installer is so slow and clunky.
< 1320523715 860472 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few megabytes ... and then a gigabyte to boot the rest of the system
< 1320523718 262693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a noticable delay after hitting any button.
< 1320523728 878034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're getting a jfs filesystem, hope you like it
< 1320523739 705339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1320523744 725010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why jfs on a VM?
< 1320523750 774687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of interest
< 1320523757 447068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like jfs :)
< 1320523783 80632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to make an ext2 /boot because arch's installer doesn't do grub2 :(
< 1320523787 632033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lilo, lilo would work too
< 1320523799 474093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, lilo has much better filesystem support than grub1)
< 1320523823 844327 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320523858 828871 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, lilo doesn't have filesystem support at all, does it?
< 1320523878 809966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it does; how else would it boot?
< 1320523896 580360 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making a list of blocks to load when you install it, of course
< 1320523918 662347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm pretty sure it supports reading filesystems nowadays
< 1320523929 67542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could always be wrong, though
< 1320523946 993075 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a long time ago I used lilo, it can have changed a lot since then
< 1320524010 891992 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't.
< 1320524029 246941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, the statement is still true then, lilo supports *every* filesystem! :)
< 1320524043 529748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, any filesystem that stores the kernel as contiguous raw bytes
< 1320524067 710122 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It records in the boot sector the location of a block of the disk that contains a list of blocks for each file it cares about.
< 1320524075 581959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320524084 2577 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it doesn't even require the kernel be a series of contiguous raw bytes.
< 1320524099 238394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do compression or encryption, though :)
< 1320524104 241183 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320524115 180631 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else did back then either, so that's just fine :)
< 1320524132 334649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware still *uses* lilo.
< 1320524144 739626 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it doesn't support any other bootloader.
< 1320524148 667239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal would be a bootloader that can use linux filesystem modules
< 1320524155 657323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly to duplicate all that effort
< 1320524174 966547 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. using linux on a /boot partition as the boot loader?
< 1320524194 425842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, yeah :)
< 1320524201 354550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why /can't/ linux boot itself?
< 1320524211 147879 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can. kexec.
< 1320524211 626676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the problem is you need the filesystem support to load the filesystem support
< 1320524215 411093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's only a problem if it's not compiled in
< 1320524219 585771 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320524230 349850 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is getting *a* Linux running in the first place...
< 1320524232 107653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it'd not take much code to get linux to be installable outside of the FS
< 1320524240 491357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a suitable boot sector, that's all
< 1320524246 654095 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until 2.6 you could.
< 1320524246 838459 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can/could/does build with a built-in boot sector
< 1320524254 59737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made the function "probNorm" to normalize a probability distribution using MonoidicT.
< 1320524254 306689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did 2.6 do? :(
< 1320524262 445318 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=/boot/vmlinuz of=/dev/fd0
< 1320524267 755099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removed the boot sector.
< 1320524273 234026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame
< 1320524291 872197 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it only booted from floppy, though.
< 1320524306 391713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has to be a list, the monoid has to be a Ring and a MonoidPlusNorm and Eq, and the data has to be Ord.
< 1320524327 660109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you don't need a list
< 1320524330 69772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see Data.Foldable
< 1320524375 892257 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, I will look.
< 1320524385 57484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd go for foldMap -- that lets you map every element of the structure to a monoid, then sums them all
< 1320524397 199515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just take the function to turn it into a monoid (e.g. Sum) and extract the final value out
< 1320524406 304601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could do foldr (+) 0 if you're boring :)
< 1320524420 822457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1320524423 982872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable.sum exists, so yeah
< 1320524512 954732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probNorm function does a whole bunch of stuff including sorting and combining entries, and removing zero probabilities (represented by values equal to mpempty)
< 1320524650 101265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this VM is currently taking a really long time to calculate checksums
< 1320524653 796256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I probably should have given it more RAM
< 1320524679 14712 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is Data.Foldable.sum but I am using it for any ring, so that won't work.
< 1320524823 386121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just use the folds directly then
< 1320525322 541237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the installer died at the hands of the OOM killer...
< 1320525328 846711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320525332 572420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it does need more memory :)
< 1320525338 886217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do it again later :P
< 1320525340 556405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba right now
< 1320526017 334792 :NihilistDandy!~ND@stu-225-155-171-184.champlain.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320527434 925455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1320527437 41924 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1320527439 701664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? finland
< 1320527442 16569 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least five of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
< 1320527444 542337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(turns out those are not the same word)
< 1320527460 743685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elliott
< 1320527462 510345 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
< 1320527469 416684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor wrote that.
< 1320527473 467518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Gregor
< 1320527475 855523 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
< 1320527485 932092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ai
< 1320527487 422683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523
< 1320527487 549998 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320527489 732949 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented.
< 1320527493 955708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ph
< 1320527495 826943 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320527496 100806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Phantom_Hoover
< 1320527498 678911 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320527505 472696 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting to hit tab.
< 1320527515 684154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? EgoBot
< 1320527517 367133 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320527522 723066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot
< 1320527522 864821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? friendship
< 1320527523 314965 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is not often that he returns empty-handed. he knows where the old slope holds unchanged the fine estates and bits of walled garden and crystal
< 1320527524 542737 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320527528 926597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? friendship
< 1320527531 101446 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship wisdom
< 1320527539 376424 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship wisdom
< 1320527541 140955 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I add things
< 1320527554 686650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? CakeProphet
< 1320527556 744846 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:>
< 1320527562 445438 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tiffany
< 1320527564 278351 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320527572 810448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? augur
< 1320527574 562130 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur took no cakes.
< 1320527576 756108 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha?
< 1320527800 249156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : How do I add things
< 1320527803 159695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to `learn
< 1320527900 548162 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO BEAUTIFUL SEXY NEW COMPUTER
< 1320527912 568900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ df -h .
< 1320527914 570716 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
< 1320527916 575602 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/sda1       2.7T  7.2G  2.6T   1% /
< 1320527918 594494 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awwwwwwww yeaaaaaaaaaaah
< 1320527934 313595 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.2GB used? omg the bloat
< 1320527986 355012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: mount | grep sda1
< 1320528033 368463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn you a haskell
< 1320528035 293690 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320528037 591224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you
< 1320528039 161430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you
< 1320528039 743630 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you a haskell
< 1320528041 167495 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you a haskell
< 1320528044 316573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You so a Haskell.
< 1320528063 672713 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... why?
< 1320528079 215569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because I bet you're using a Wrong Filesystem, and I want to insult your computer on that basis.
< 1320528103 837032 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using ext4.  LOLOL IT DON'T SCALE I PREFER MURDERFS
< 1320528107 229313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone.
< 1320528108 530893 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: when age fell upon the world whenever another earthquake shall heave their monstrous stone city again to the pit, all fnord by a white god might prove valuable to the ethnologist. in his lonely farmhouse. he was writhing under the bedclothes, and a sprinkling of crumpled papers. it was inside this circle that the ring of fire.
< 1320528109 600786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320528113 820373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot
< 1320528115 89800 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that such regions in truth existed, seemed amply clear from many things. faint cries and groans unmistakably came up now and then he shut him in an attic room across the hall. all i could, and watched for the lights to come up early the next day with little old matthew fenner, whose grave was not very likely to be fnord fnord,
< 1320528115 807093 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone.
< 1320528118 341515 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably using one of the boring default ones, like ext4
< 1320528123 125577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1320528123 704321 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1320528141 789718 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320528145 679611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nah, ext4 probably scales just fine, it's just intended obsolete by design :)
< 1320528155 651386 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if he'd rather want a working filesystem than a cool one
< 1320528168 338004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hope you're happy when its authors decide we're ready for btrfs, which ext4 is meant as a transition to! Enjoy yer Oracle
< 1320528195 389676 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MurderFS is what is also known as ReiserFS, right?
< 1320528206 523023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm so glad serious people like IBM don't use the 12-year-old filesystem I use.
< 1320528228 704462 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, which one was that? JFS?
< 1320528233 434140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320528240 713846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually 21 years old, but JFS2 is 12 years old
< 1320528265 429990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filesystem i turn to when i want coolness is nilfs2 :P
< 1320528270 407977 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, OS/2 had JFS support :D
< 1320528279 827749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's where it originated :P
< 1320528300 431277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1320528304 311974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320528318 585934 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assumed it came from AIX or at least that it never existed at the same time as OS/2
< 1320528368 609987 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They first shipped it for OS/2 in 1999.
< 1320528381 58328 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2, of course, lasted a *lot* longer than it had any right to.
< 1320528407 573447 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux version is a port of the OS/2 version.
< 1320528846 185137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about Eclipse's new language Xtend
< 1320528866 554451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, it's basically Java plus all the syntactic sugar they could think of
< 1320528879 892404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "whitespace inference" is a bit bizarre
< 1320528880 279806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320528886 135084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what?
< 1320528897 851121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have a string with a bunch of interpolations in
< 1320528901 731296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : They first shipped it for OS/2 in 1999.
< 1320528906 643521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you might want to put whitespace around the interpolations
< 1320528909 343768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm
< 1320528912 777385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't go in the string
< 1320528917 28866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, OS/2 lasted fucking *ages*.
< 1320528917 657020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: looks like JFS1 was AIX in 1990, and JFS2 was OS/2 in 1999
< 1320528925 768387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: weird
< 1320528933 129009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it figures out whether the whitespace is meant to be part of the string, or is just there for indentation
< 1320528946 985366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I see
< 1320528947 249107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Eclipse syntax-highlights which is which, obviously
< 1320528948 718994 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, make that "has lasted".
< 1320528954 10088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't go in the resulting string, not which doesn't go in the source string
< 1320528961 744017 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM sold it off, but it's still actively developed.
< 1320528963 195168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "x${y}z" would become "x foo z" or something
< 1320528965 745196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with y="foo"
< 1320528980 115366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1320528984 412376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of Perl 6, there
< 1320529021 139373 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, it's even vaguely usable still; Firefox, OpenOffice, VLC, et al. have maintained ports.
< 1320529093 239595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I think the same applies to AmigaOS 4 :-)
< 1320529161 822813 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The fuck?
< 1320529172 473359 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eComStation's sound stack is a port of ALSA.
< 1320529178 879095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320529280 325418 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1320529325 171954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu -m 1024 -hda weboflies.qcow2 -cdrom ~/Downloads/archlinux-2011.08.19-netinstall-i686.iso -boot c
< 1320529325 327628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to allocate 1073741824 B: Cannot allocate memory
< 1320529325 380582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aborted
< 1320529327 51059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what?
< 1320529344 66780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it was trying to allocate 1GB of memory
< 1320529345 884418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-/+ buffers/cache:       3190        613
< 1320529352 36793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... why is all my RAM used up?
< 1320529356 998349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that looks around 1GiB, I'm not sure if it's exact as I don't have it memorized
< 1320529363 313318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks how to sort by RAM in topa gain
< 1320529366 931480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/topa /top a/
< 1320529373 275407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have to look it up every time I want to do it)
< 1320529379 177654 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :M
< 1320529381 807035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be the -m 1024 part
< 1320529392 608319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just use < and > after loading top
< 1320529394 788408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gah, I think it's counting virtual memory
< 1320529399 569767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they changes the sort order
< 1320529405 892303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can I count physical memory?
< 1320529407 926172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's normally reasonably obvious what they're sorting by right now by inspection
< 1320529409 658908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *change
< 1320529413 64790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes
< 1320529441 626734 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm... I thought it sorted by RSS or something, at least not VSIZE
< 1320529453 715619 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320529506 631569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, killall chromium actually solved the problem
< 1320529557 572449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm surprised qemu's allocation actually /failed/, though
< 1320529562 430791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I have overcommit on
< 1320529577 742316 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you process ruby source files containing classes? discovering/adding/removing class contents
< 1320529582 838635 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu might be asking to commit that memory
< 1320529589 680833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: awk
< 1320529598 808540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, how do you do that?
< 1320529604 386216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: or sed, at a pinch
< 1320529623 873914 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a flag to mmap for that, MAP_LOCK or something
< 1320529632 444702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well an alloc that large would be mmaped
< 1320529643 256717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap overcommits too
< 1320529660 56617 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320529673 130197 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried with ruby ParseTree and sexp_processor
< 1320529677 429833 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruby2ruby
< 1320529694 139117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: congratulations, you successfully overthought the problem in an insufficiently reflective language
< 1320529695 897564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MAP_POPULATE requests prefaulting
< 1320529700 570549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough
< 1320529707 123991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just went and looked it up
< 1320529718 674898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc, if you're overcommitting but prefaulting is requested, then you can tell something's worng
< 1320529720 35821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong
< 1320529721 773546 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ruby is quite reflective at runtime
< 1320529726 511725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt qemu /would/ be prefaulting, though, it has no reason to do so
< 1320529732 835275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no it's not, at least not in the right sense
< 1320529738 490244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby provides no access to its ast whatsoever
< 1320529791 490813 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParseTree takes a method or class and throws it's sexp representation in your face
< 1320529807 888760 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mess with sexp and then translate it to ruby again
< 1320529818 943103 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :its*
< 1320529823 112274 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will never learn
< 1320529829 773125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby: because we think every AST is a sexp!
< 1320529850 48248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't parse_tree by zenspider
< 1320529855 911642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine his software is any more tolerable than himself
< 1320530102 16095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, wow, apaprently the Calibre website says "Please do not use your distribution provided calibre package, as those are often buggy/outdated. Instead use the Binary install described below."
< 1320530110 691490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apparently
< 1320530123 254280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: beautiful
< 1320530126 542886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As I suspected, you're in this not to contribute something to the community, but as a destructive influence." ;; ooh, this keeps getting better and better
< 1320530127 122189 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320530135 334363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after he gives up on writing exploits because the guy keeps patching it)
< 1320530136 287105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi edne
< 1320530137 484058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1320530139 909507 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1320530145 395012 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi
< 1320530220 882406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha: "Well, if you do not wish to help, that leaves me with no choice but to remove the mount helper."
< 1320530253 746578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (this is /after/ one of them supplies a drop-in replacement patch using the udisk script Ubuntu uses)
< 1320530293 58941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@Dan: You were on my ignore list, which meant I never saw your exploit" ;; lmao
< 1320530298 968864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is definitely the best bug report I've read
< 1320530312 455064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you link it again?
< 1320530318 987198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that I assume you're there atm
< 1320530323 209296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027
< 1320530328 741210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck trying to find your previous position
< 1320530529 662260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it pretty easily, actually
< 1320530544 148582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by skimming for the comment I remembered being at the end
< 1320530606 142831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ciclops.org/view_media/34501/Catching_Its_Tail%253Fjs%253D1?js=1
< 1320530607 988420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.
< 1320530815 640821 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I just realised that the line in the middle is the rings.
< 1320530824 481730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was some weird formatting bug.
< 1320530832 340680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like the guy who signs every comment with " of the GNAA." like it's a Ph.D.
< 1320530836 101883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please note that I misjudged just how broken this code is
< 1320530843 337106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: X-D
< 1320530867 781692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What is it with planets looking so cool.
< 1320530887 783383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (OK this is bias in the form of how cool the Earth looks seeming mundane.)
< 1320530893 319875 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to the end and now it says "Displaying first 40 and last 40 comments."
< 1320530920 173916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heh
< 1320530922 165046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you seen pictures of the Earth from space?
< 1320530927 883753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:  Phantom_Hoover: (OK this is bias in the form of how cool the Earth looks seeming mundane.)
< 1320530934 231356 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there went all sense of accomplishment from getting to the end
< 1320530954 617829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I was confused by your insane grammar.
< 1320530978 472198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: um it inserts "N comments hidden" inline
< 1320531008 241236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the best demonstration of the 60s is that TOS episode where they had a completely cloudless Earth because /nobody had seen a picture of it from space/.
< 1320531010 517583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*)
< 1320531020 116926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c) Has the full right to be proud of his work and initially doubt and/or question vulnerability reports from an unknown source
< 1320531032 291562 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read those "comments hidden" blocks since they weren't formatted as comments :)
< 1320531032 931564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unknown source that gives source-format exploits.
< 1320531047 145157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh man, that would be cool to see.
< 1320531078 120308 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IWC had an annotation on the matter.
< 1320531092 895258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's simultaneously weird at what a relatively high level of tech we were at in the 60s and still not having been to space, and weird that we managed to go to space on the tech level of the 60s.
< 1320531106 660282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You think my grammar is insane, try THAT one out for size.)
< 1320531161 118088 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Standby and I'll update the exploit for your latest fix" :>
< 1320531163 424148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it's even weirder that navigational computers could be fitted into a spacecraft less than thirty years after someone had the bright idea of building one of these computer things.
< 1320531173 568264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the best part is people claiming it's secure because it's not used if you have udisks installed
< 1320531182 598186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: despite it /still being installed/
< 1320531200 448113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's... pretty unbelievable when stated like that.
< 1320531215 665516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think I know the reason we haven't gone back to the moon yet, it's because it worked like flying does in H2G2.
< 1320531218 837318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirty years is a long time, though
< 1320531222 176223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We only managed it because we hadn't realised how bloody hard it was.
< 1320531239 849857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm less than 30 years old; and a lot's happened in technology in my lifetime
< 1320531244 428360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe because the Russians couldn't be allowed to get there first?
< 1320531258 143810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OTOH, the further you go back, the fewer advances technology makes in 30 years...
< 1320531262 345704 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh man, I honestly remember being introduced to the web.
< 1320531273 511321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what massive technological advancements happened 1210-1240?
< 1320531291 588130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I bet that date span I just made up contained the invention of something of huge magnitude by sheer coincidence.)
< 1320531292 205725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, careful, that way lies mainly Kurzweil.
< 1320531299 554867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm; I think it's to do with the speed of communication
< 1320531310 952918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Colossus was the world's first electronic programmable computer."
< 1320531312 442418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh come on, it's undeniable that the rate of change /has/ increased rapidly in recent history.
< 1320531313 374489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without good communication technology, technological advances have to be made again and again and again
< 1320531324 466213 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, unquestionably.
< 1320531332 458986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's not the same as "also, it's going to increase exponentially in the next like ten years and then we'll be friendship computers".
< 1320531346 109104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke.
< 1320531355 390711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YOU COMPARED ME TO KURZWEIL THAT WILL NEVER BE A JOKE
< 1320531356 257223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sobs
< 1320531358 380284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Song Dynasty China and the classical Islamic world, this century marked the high point for both classical Chinese civilization, science and technology, and classical Islamic science, philosophy, technology and literature."
< 1320531376 692582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your anti-11th-centur— wait 1200s are the 13th.
< 1320531380 321498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FML
< 1320531382 813725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good.
< 1320531386 277436 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still nothing compared to the craziness that was the 20th century.
< 1320531393 625348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah nothing happened then.
< 1320531409 986433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, sorry, you're not allowed to comment after that stupid thing you said about the Dark Ages once.
< 1320531410 78891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :July 17 – Former king Sverker the Younger of Sweden is defeated and killed by present king Erik Knutsson of Sweden in the Battle of Gestilren.
< 1320531420 468509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, Erik Knutsson must be really old if he's the present king.
< 1320531424 981439 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I said something about the Dark Ages?
< 1320531425 213559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Swedes died in it, it's all right with me.
< 1320531432 187143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also the middle ages never happened OK.
< 1320531463 598910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_historic_inventions#13th_century
< 1320531466 17310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aahahahaha
< 1320531469 587474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst century.
< 1320531469 640041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Hommage_of_Edward_I_to_Philippe_le_Bel.jpg ;; wow this is the worst interior design.
< 1320531474 727574 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We started the century having basically figured out industry, and ended it with flight, computers, networking, nuclear power, and an insane pile of science.
< 1320531475 518704 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"al-Jazari's automata"
< 1320531481 683619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Paper mill ain't bad!
< 1320531485 618803 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you forgot the space!
< 1320531491 164650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OTOH that's 100 years, not 30.
< 1320531502 671904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft, it's just a normal mill with paper.
< 1320531504 737559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derivative.
< 1320531506 301949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: omg "The first confirmed record of a press appeared in a 1439 lawsuit against Gutenberg."
< 1320531511 558521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes, we got spaceflight and satellites.
< 1320531512 778421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superinjunctions!
< 1320531512 891155 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Jazari#Automata
< 1320531519 62854 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually this looks pretty cool.
< 1320531520 890689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which system do you prefer: degrees or zodiac or hours?
< 1320531530 645460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Radians.
< 1320531532 820088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OMG robot band.
< 1320531546 310747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, which computers totally ruined (note: opinion derived from Project Rho, probably wrong).
< 1320531565 463178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, that timeline of historic inventions' entire list for the 20th century is "the web".
< 1320531569 358271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up with that.
< 1320531570 941244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There was also probably something about how it would have all been great if Asians had done it which I trimmed out.)
< 1320531579 739133 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because nothing else matters.
< 1320531589 206554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Tell me you're not being serious.
< 1320531589 353829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it takes the confused.com attitude towards history.
< 1320531603 514129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's the most heavily sarcastic thing I have said in memory.
< 1320531606 363313 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remove that and replace it with a link to wikipedia, the pinnacle of human achievement
< 1320531606 473516 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: O, OK. However, Astrolog does not support that format. But if I write such a program, possibly I will include that option.
< 1320531608 656913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You fuckwit, I just heard that ad play out in my head.
< 1320531609 732991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this article is so terrible.
< 1320531614 567673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OK good.
< 1320531636 808614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maaan, it just reminded me that we STILL haven't replicated greek fire yet.
< 1320531639 624305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody get on that???
< 1320531645 165745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, napalm.
< 1320531647 536850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to the world's best hooligan???
< 1320531661 234990 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We mightn't be able to /replicate/ it, but we can do a hell of a lot bette.
< 1320531663 7174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*better
< 1320531667 404172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't WANT better.
< 1320531675 705741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Hand-siphon_for_Greek_fire%2C_medieval_illumination.jpg
< 1320531677 199203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at this guy.
< 1320531687 825814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy is standing on a seriously structurally unsound battleground.
< 1320531690 288772 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does look pretty awesome.
< 1320531693 216875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't even GIVE a shit.
< 1320531700 465731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also wow how tall is that thing.
< 1320531702 912624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly how his tower is just like "FUCK YOU GRAVITY".
< 1320531718 604241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I like how the castle looks like it was drawn by a five year old.
< 1320531725 154499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the two-dimensional bits at the top whose name I don't know.
< 1320531733 331129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you know nothing about art history?
< 1320531747 528275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you know nothing about the history of manuscripts authored by five-year-olds.
< 1320531751 281617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SAYING?
< 1320531754 92981 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Astrolog is set to zodiac signs by default, but it can use hours and degrees too. I set it to degrees; but astronomers who want to measure right ascension will probably use the hours format. Astrologers probably want to use the default setting for zodiac (which is probably why it is the default).)
< 1320531757 591471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically "art was all drawn by five-year-olds until the Renaissance when they finally worked out how to draw actual things".
< 1320531778 97094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they're crenellations you fool.
< 1320531783 584315 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not actual five-year-olds.
< 1320531791 960279 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just people with all the aesthetic sense of five-year-olds.
< 1320531797 325850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Hand-siphon_for_Greek_fire%2C_medieval_illumination_%28detail%29.jpg
< 1320531800 792445 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's an exclusively European phenomenon.
< 1320531800 845293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK seriously I want one of those.
< 1320531806 805185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, clap clap clap, ur decetefivte
< 1320531987 596613 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1320532051 400739 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there are many correct arguments against astrology, there are also some wrong ones, such as this one:  http://jyte.com/cl/if-you-must-do-astrology-you-should-at-least-get-the-position-of-the-sun-correct  Some lists have both correct and wrong ones. They really should learn better before writing such wrong things.
< 1320532076 76780 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say the sun is yellow due to 2+2=3, then you can get a correct conclusion even though you are making the wrong arguments for such things!
< 1320532317 551216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_thermal_weapons
< 1320532332 918865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Thermal weapon' is apparently a euphemism for 'setting fire to stuff'.
< 1320532374 7334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"War without fire is like sausages without mustard"
< 1320532376 697229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this man.
< 1320532492 218715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: PH how is dynamite so modern.
< 1320532503 224083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A boy without mischief is like a bowling ball without a liquid center."  "A gleekzorp without a tornpee is like a quop without a fertsneet (sort of)."  "A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle."  "A computer without COBOL and Fortran is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard."
< 1320532503 981436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know?
< 1320532518 828262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Like what did we even do for fun before then.
< 1320532529 827886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gunpowder.
< 1320532539 294830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't even a high explosive.
< 1320532585 52393 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320532585 104762 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320532585 104895 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320532597 387636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you prefer cake with ketchup and mustard, or with fire and gunpowder?
< 1320532651 184731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire and gunpowder.
< 1320532655 671098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gunpowder smells nice.
< 1320532668 865009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"People exposed to TNT over a prolonged period tend to experience anemia and abnormal liver functions. Blood and liver effects, spleen enlargement and other harmful effects on the immune system have also been found in animals that ingested or breathed trinitrotoluene. There is evidence that TNT adversely affects male fertility, and TNT is listed as a possible human carcinogen."
< 1320532688 283116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when one of the staircases in the school science building smelt of it for days because of What The Sixth Years Did.
< 1320532689 1569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We should start just, like, putting TNT into the water supply of countries we don't like.
< 1320532697 232706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they will all become infertile and blow up??
< 1320532714 421259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's stable in solution or something?
< 1320532728 29470 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are not supposed to put TNT into the water supply.
< 1320532743 632970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, OK then.
< 1320532749 845702 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also TNT is quite hard to blow up anyway.
< 1320532760 527775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT contains 4.184 megajoules per kilogram.
< 1320532765 34360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dammit when did we start using TNT for explosives.
< 1320532767 724550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add " as appropriate.
< 1320532772 803034 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not TNT, what *are* you supposed to put in the water supply?
< 1320532781 830825 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Hydroxic acid.
< 1320532783 475349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What weren't you allowed to do because of the sixth years again?
< 1320532787 488009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, that's almost exactly 1000 times the heat capacity of water.
< 1320532798 236482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, get chemicals which we didn't explicitly need.
< 1320532799 649756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT = explosive water.
< 1320532818 637451 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need to put dihydrogen monoxide.
< 1320532831 383399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was first synthesised in 1863, and was used as a dye.
< 1320532905 255012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sailor_Hat_Shot.jpg
< 1320532911 869397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... like Minecraft in real life.
< 1320532994 151070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Man, and that was from the days where clicking TNT would blow it up.
< 1320533001 181100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must have been really careful.
< 1320533036 854410 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320533075 587830 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320533099 128814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "hydroxic acid" = water?
< 1320533100 459264 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320533230 225664 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320533242 156742 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes
< 1320533250 476241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your favourite locale?
< 1320533290 540352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_GB.UTF8
< 1320533293 76064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however it's spelt
< 1320533320 453009 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not en_US.SJIS? :P
< 1320533327 873146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your wish is my command; what's your favourite hostname
< 1320533339 697373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I normally use biomes as hostnames
< 1320533349 262978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are only like five of them!
< 1320533351 638723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bad Minecraft joke.)
< 1320533368 303720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a biome where everything is miniature and also in a VM.
< 1320533441 288131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as this one won't be around long, let's use "glacier", which isn't a biome but would be if more things lived there
< 1320533441 340567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which is also rapidly melting
< 1320533441 535536 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about mushroom?
< 1320533451 853538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as far as I know
< 1320533506 995544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mushrooms aren't rapidly melting, Phantom_Hoover.
< 1320533519 212434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usually calls VMs matryoshka because he thought of it once and then never stopped using it.
< 1320533524 576854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pain to spell, though.
< 1320533570 231490 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320533582 576387 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320533588 665005 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320533682 210400 :NihilistDandy!~ND@stu-225-155-171-184.champlain.edu QUIT :Quit: http://haskell.org
< 1320533752 225909 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: luckily, I think cyrillic transliterations are varied enough that almost any spelling can be correct
< 1320533757 145426 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"correct"
< 1320533771 955965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure exactly how to pronounce it, either :)
< 1320533792 514236 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in russian, obv.
< 1320533809 58660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... Матрёшка
< 1320533812 928508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mat puker
< 1320533853 151321 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :matpuker, much easier to spell
< 1320533891 59225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, nobody told me Chrome does RSS now.
< 1320533907 480242 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a matpewka in the pectopah
< 1320533923 373533 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320533944 763802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: weboflies would work in Xen, right?
< 1320533945 589763 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320533946 86369 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-211.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320533946 138938 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320533950 578563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see why not
< 1320533957 396044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it triggers entirely different kernel bugs there
< 1320533964 324721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, it's just drivers
< 1320533972 806232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and oh no, that means I've had another "if I was using Kitten..." moment.
< 1320534140 891096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu -m 1024 -hda weboflies.qcow2man -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::2222:22
< 1320534143 759515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's hope this works
< 1320534145 583499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, s/man//
< 1320534168 682709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu: -net user,hostfwd=tcp::2222:22: Device 'user' could not be initialized
< 1320534170 98703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good
< 1320534181 216573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320534183 610201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a - after 2222
< 1320534271 996714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: libpng is the only dependency I need, right?
< 1320534308 444528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1320534317 103245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, barring the obvious, like glibc
< 1320534324 995670 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save the others: Eat yourself!
< 1320534329 748052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok /me eats self
< 1320534337 437373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol, the arch "emacs" package depends on gtk
< 1320534355 793872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has both gtk and non-gtk versions, I think; IIRC both are installed here
< 1320534375 870055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems there's no alternative, sigh
< 1320534388 587574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just let it install gtk
< 1320534389 156033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Emacs?
< 1320534395 78831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to the main package
< 1320534399 655228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does vim depend on gtk too? that'd be really hilarious
< 1320534400 950744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a 70 meg download
< 1320534404 313897 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats, you're the only Arch user of emacs that doesn't want gtk
< 1320534404 785766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that would go much faster with kitten...
< 1320534415 412390 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, there's a separate gvim package
< 1320534419 788376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really irks me to see it download a bunch of few-hundred-kilobyte packages and pause noticably between them
< 1320534422 96524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The only?
< 1320534431 950462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plenty of people use Emacs from the console
< 1320534441 227073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I do sometimes
< 1320534445 806513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly when I'm termcasting for vim users
< 1320534445 874164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch has a lot of people who work from the console so I'd be very surprised if nobody would want it
< 1320534456 399986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahaha
< 1320534468 693960 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just referring to how there doesn't seem to be even an AUR package for non-gtk emacs
< 1320534476 111392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: heh
< 1320534477 617958 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may've missed it though, there's a lot of emacs packages
< 1320534499 4643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you think it'd be easy, arch does tons of optional dependencies by just letting things break without them; all it'd take is some logic to make -nw be default if the gtk libs can't be found
< 1320534514 344880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'd have to load them dynamically too
< 1320534523 212389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at that point people start getting queasy because ~OMG PATCHES~
< 1320534524 541194 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d478.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320534640 877806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why aren't you checking package integrity in parallel you stupid thing
< 1320534757 521901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, I can use the terminal UI stuff I'm developing now for the installer too
< 1320534766 333462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever wanted your installer to have a BETTER UI THAN DARCS?!?!?!?! TRY KITTEN
< 1320534818 862932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is OK way to measure the width?   objWidth (Box p) = maximum $ 0 : map (\((x, _), z) -> x + objWidth z) p;
< 1320535042 493299 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should there be a submodule for Graphics.DVI that is for accessing the system printer driver with it?
< 1320535171 802649 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1320535194 852220 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to record a screencast fot the sixth time
< 1320535214 363591 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at speaking in english
< 1320535282 931077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay, it's finally installed emacs and libpng
< 1320535295 935505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and libpng-dev?
< 1320535306 740081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's part of library packages in arch, I think
< 1320535323 623051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, source distro?
< 1320535326 485278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320535339 453241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian is the only one that does stuff like that
< 1320535345 473222 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even that i don't know what to say or make lame mistakes
< 1320535349 187303 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just mumble
< 1320535350 363166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a binary distro download library headers with libraries? most people want the libraries to run programs using them, not write programs using them
< 1320535362 148482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can compile programs without writing them
< 1320535370 790034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds the -doc and -dev splits really annoying, personally
< 1320535386 936472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1320535388 874023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could buy that the -dev split might be OK for most Linux users (but probably not most Arch users), but -doc is just silly
< 1320535394 209259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but you're on a binary distro; if you're compiling, it's probably because it's something that the distro doesn't package, or that you're working on personally
< 1320535400 418332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-doc is a bit silly, agreed
< 1320535421 598072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or you want a newer version, or you're installing something from the AUR (which is source-based), or it's source-configured like dwm
< 1320535426 54800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is particularly pertinent
< 1320535437 815295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I really doubt headers take up a noticable amount of space
< 1320535449 897159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping them together, at worse, wastes a bit of space
< 1320535463 591195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :67M	/usr/include
< 1320535469 560796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to be smaller, but I guess most headers are <4K
< 1320535472 447496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's still pretty tiny
< 1320535479 424291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to, say, binaries :P
< 1320535479 525580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if headers are small, and they are, I suppose you could just have a package containing /all/ library headers
< 1320535486 495763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1320535490 71778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would conflict with itself, though
< 1320535494 824196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :54M	/usr/include
< 1320535496 984122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with --apparent-size)
< 1320535507 243027 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :299M /usr/include
< 1320535515 282419 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :234M with --apparent-size
< 1320535517 321364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you have a bigger disk than me, so it balances out :)
< 1320535522 177694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers making ais523's user account have correct name information
< 1320535529 188788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much of it as you know?
< 1320535529 829034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise how could I know he's the 523rd such user on the system?
< 1320535535 210717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I believe I know it all
< 1320535537 441391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have more middle names
< 1320535542 407824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1320535544 231071 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 50G for /
< 1320535546 514144 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have all the middle names
< 1320535552 984679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like room number are part of the name info, aren't they?
< 1320535557 969104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't quite remember that myself
< 1320535560 666785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I... doubt it?
< 1320535587 297239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like room number is a separate field
< 1320535593 434681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1320535599 525287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the same block of info, so it's unified in my head
< 1320535604 922891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: technically, I should be asking you whaty it is, along with your work phone, home phone, and other
< 1320535609 855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/whaty/what/
< 1320535612 801916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who even fills those out?
< 1320535614 974188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I can't quite remember it
< 1320535620 531225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your favourite password :)
< 1320535623 768525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor my work phone number, although I could look it up
< 1320535628 81851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like I'm going to tell you that :)
< 1320535647 2476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your second-favourite password :P
< 1320535651 196322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it usual for you to set one and tell me, in this situation?
< 1320535662 971073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320535671 155977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so boring!
< 1320535679 677162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /me gets the best idea
< 1320535692 717696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that distributed RNG thing you wrote for nomics?
< 1320535702 460936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's beautiful too, but my idea was simpler
< 1320535760 492238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose we could diffie-hellman a password over IRC, so it'd all be in the open and yet only us would know the passwords
< 1320535763 450451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't remember how it works
< 1320535794 930160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how cryptography does the impossible on a regular basis
< 1320535806 920192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does the naming scheme that made you ais523 do when people don't have middle names?
< 1320535819 369843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: puts an x in there, generally
< 1320535832 663385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# adduser exh1
< 1320535835 536420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've seen other letters, that's only in staff names (which don't have the numbers)
< 1320535865 997090 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it do with people with only a first name? Another x?
< 1320535875 785297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you look at /etc/shadow, try not to mentally crack my password
< 1320535878 422192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I haven't seen that happen
< 1320535885 514142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't yet shaken the habit of using one password for everything...
< 1320535889 325661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it, umm, using an insecure hash?
< 1320535897 833209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the default, which is I think MD5(!)
< 1320535898 521617 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, it's not exactly *common* any more.
< 1320535904 17883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I somewhat doubt you can mentally crack MD5
< 1320535915 69868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I advise you to put the MD5 of your password into Google
< 1320535919 201463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are any results, change it :)
< 1320535922 377820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good idea
< 1320535933 623009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is the world's best method of reversing hashes)
< 1320535938 940625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, I love the "incident will be reported" message
< 1320535953 876994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no results :)
< 1320535969 819656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my old password gets results, though
< 1320535978 354777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not a word or anything
< 1320535996 34166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the database it returns looks suspiciously like it's from leaked hashes of some kind
< 1320536005 729343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to try with mine, but I'm trying to work out how to md5 it without it being in my bash history
< 1320536021 156164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: echo -n "$(cat)" | md5sum
< 1320536023 580401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n to avoid the newline
< 1320536029 732480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also just md5sum and use ^D^D
< 1320536038 591785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, I was thinking without it appearing on screen eitehr
< 1320536040 94034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*either
< 1320536064 145778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I've been known to termcast shell sessions by mistake before now, also as I'm paranoid
< 1320536070 230642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, someone must have packaged the "securely read a password" thing into a program
< 1320536073 859054 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n "$(cat)", eww
< 1320536076 949094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know Python has an stdlib for it
< 1320536081 123685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :)
< 1320536100 96657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -MTerm::ReadPassword -e 'print read_password'
< 1320536104 411348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty simple
< 1320536118 424204 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pe 'chomp if eof' | md5sum
< 1320536142 223886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, I just outright googled my old password,a nd it's in SHA1 databases too
< 1320536164 6541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a nd/ and/
< 1320536166 86824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep making that mistake
< 1320536174 718910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, no results for either of my insecurish passwords
< 1320536188 809404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming the ones that are meant to be secure, and that are only used in one place, really are secure
< 1320536206 95943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew, my current password has no results
< 1320536211 594178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Google could already know it about a thousand times over)
< 1320536217 831877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I don't see any harm in searching for it)
< 1320536235 296457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, host key generation takes ages
< 1320536343 380068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I'm changing my password to stop you possibly worrying about reading /etc/shadow :)
< 1320536409 439341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, ssh -p 2222 ais523@95.149.230.52; your password is your middle name, and you have passwordless sudo access
< 1320536417 856394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so do I :p
< 1320536437 878272 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's his middle name again?
< 1320536451 750673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: exactly
< 1320536455 10415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no longer my password on glacier :p
< 1320536471 614324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, did your wikipedia article have it?
< 1320536473 111765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(new password is unique but insecure)
< 1320536477 450159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so, but I don't know
< 1320536482 908144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing it's deleted!
< 1320536491 950823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, it looks like changing my password failed
< 1320536506 823298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, I won't look at /etc/shadw until you fix it
< 1320536541 431602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shadow, not shadw, these days
< 1320536546 39383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I /msg'd you my requested new password
< 1320536549 927282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you're the only one with sudo access
< 1320536576 835528 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-98.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320536593 83039 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-244.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320536641 242814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: couldn't resist
< 1320536650 509969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what couldn't you resist?
< 1320536654 531576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1320536737 428445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a few warnings, but none are relevant
< 1320536763 392194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, weboflies works just /fine/ inside the VM
< 1320536770 149208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on echo, at least
< 1320536771 611677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahahahaha
< 1320536773 235293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check on cat
< 1320536783 125531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: theory: it's something to do with 64-bit
< 1320536786 902402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I just did cat /etc/passwd
< 1320536832 585446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, if I was running Kitten, I could change the desired architecture in my VM configuration file and rebuild it in minutes...
< 1320536852 786401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was wondering why root's password wasn't shadowed; it was because it wasn't the actual root account, but a repeatablized one
< 1320536871 662492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320536888 243786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I forgot to remove root's password; it's "x"
< 1320536896 639414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's not
< 1320536907 68264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's inverse_shadow("!"), which has no result
< 1320536942 726458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just tried running weboflies on su, to see what would happen
< 1320536960 968352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320536965 22916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just said incorrect password, without taking input
< 1320536970 80669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320536975 819131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it probably tried to get control of the tty
< 1320536985 265106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can; the tty actually exists
< 1320536994 939389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a repeatablized tty
< 1320537011 23155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also a bunch of "unknown syscall 102"
< 1320537013 284584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe you have a bug that stops such input methods working
< 1320537017 170169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test with that perl program :)
< 1320537018 145941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is socketcall
< 1320537024 241073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's trying to use sockets for some reason
< 1320537053 556646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'd expect it to do is to notice it isn't running as root, and exit
< 1320537059 725235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's emailing your password to rms for the Revolution
< 1320537062 824926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can't debug suid programs while still having them escalate)
< 1320537064 899185 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 64-bit it's getuid
< 1320537074 892457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wouldn't make cheap rms jokes if he hadn't written literally that about su)
< 1320537076 784369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: rather than setuid?
< 1320537085 640471 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, setuid is 105
< 1320537086 383277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: no, syscall 102, presumably
< 1320537100 605596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :102 is socketcall
< 1320537103 627227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was a weird misping
< 1320537105 165456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : On 64-bit it's getuid
< 1320537116 429200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on 64-bit, syscall 102 is socketcall
< 1320537118 221175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what Deewiant is saying
< 1320537144 923564 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is/isn't/
< 1320537195 346262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, socketcall doesn't exist on 64-bit
< 1320537213 655634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is running 32-bit su, as weboflies only runs 32-bit programs
< 1320537244 686668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go home, anyway
< 1320537261 917338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, if you want to run weboflies, now you have a VM it works in ;)
< 1320537293 274648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux glacier 3.0-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Oct 19 12:14:48 UTC 2011 i686 QEMU Virtual CPU version 0.15.1 GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
< 1320537300 188484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what version Linux on your own computer?
< 1320537356 714243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha; and the same but x86-64 and not Virtual CPU
< 1320537362 34385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's a 64-bit thing
< 1320537413 892633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since this is an up-to-date Arch system and I haven't fiddled about with anything like that at all
< 1320537450 480146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see how the number of bits would matter for file permissions
< 1320537463 541940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm, perhaps that's just a symptom of the syscall numbers being all wrong
< 1320537473 405624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep; note that I /did/ do -m32
< 1320537478 747386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if:
< 1320537485 17504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try running it on a 32-bit program
< 1320537490 523320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did (weboflies)
< 1320537499 853954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ran it on /itself/? is that sane?
< 1320537506 999983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it didn't even get to printing the usage error message
< 1320537509 933720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't specify any parameters)
< 1320537520 782646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like, let me tell you what number ioctl is on 64-bit
< 1320537526 672915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can check what that corresponds to on 32-bit
< 1320537538 828041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320537574 259113 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/asm/unistd_64.h:#define __NR_ioctl				16
< 1320537578 486752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_ioctl                              16
< 1320537578 640280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_lchown              16
< 1320537583 172612 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1320537588 840186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt lchown is being called at process startup time...
< 1320537604 796801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there is\
< 1320537606 8912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ewarn(chown("/tmp/home/" WOLUSER_NAME, WOLUSER_UID, WOLUSER_GID));
< 1320537607 496207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a link
< 1320537608 959791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\//
< 1320537888 875266 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: take carezz
< 1320538062 810798 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-98.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320538067 73137 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320538615 820907 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320539047 851223 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320539057 559881 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539267 362458 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539437 889266 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320539455 350823 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320539636 47620 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320539650 816024 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539865 78469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539877 747992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure?
< 1320539888 667807 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320540217 407975 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320540231 806472 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320540383 801224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320540526 946298 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320540644 47382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/kragen/xcompose/blob/master/dotXCompose
< 1320540649 106459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a nice compose file.
< 1320540699 307866 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320540711 659816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable!
< 1320540778 57008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320540779 405592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320540865 17245 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320541011 162321 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320541030 383013 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320541109 605439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the ddate program allow you to switch which kind of Discordian calendar you want?
< 1320541557 74855 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, the full name of the guy who plays bashir is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi
< 1320541634 40382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and his son's name is django
< 1320541690 382153 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320541871 120209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent a game that requires you to use a realtime horoscope as the game board. Maybe, one player is Summer and one player is Winter. And if you have four players, then there is Spring and Autumn as well. You have to pay attention to the phase of the moon, too. And cards. And of course there need a time limit so that you cannot just wait for many months until the planets favor you.
< 1320542082 597606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320542085 306210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:50:44:  https://github.com/kragen/xcompose/blob/master/dotXCompose
< 1320542097 828309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that sucked, IIRC, although I forget why.
< 1320542103 698793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:05:57:  oh wow, the full name of the guy who plays bashir is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi
< 1320542103 844832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:07:14:  ... and his son's name is django
< 1320542109 650220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What is it with you and Django :P
< 1320542113 497210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote olsner.*django
< 1320542120 238275 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :324)  django is named after a person?   thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 379)  `quote django   ​352)  django is named after a person?   thought it would be a giraffe or something   thankfully only one \ 380)  `quote django   ​352)
< 1320542127 870962 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not my fault!
< 1320542174 589598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whose quotation are this:  "Any sufficiently advanced religion is indistinguishable from schizophrenia."  "I just hijacked your brain. You can have it back at the end of this sentence."  "The Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory ate the last cookie!"  "It is better to bless the dark than to waste a candle."
< 1320542249 695902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's not that life is too short, it's that death is too long."  "If you're not confused, you're ignorant."  "Yoda is programing in Forcetran only."
< 1320542334 958323 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are these quotations?
< 1320542412 491668 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does superstition bring bad luck?
< 1320542652 330301 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320543409 205104 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320543970 766496 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PART :#esoteric
< 1320543997 543272 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndzi
< 1320544100 430679 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log "a", "b", "c", "aa"
< 1320544124 944467 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-06.txt:01:48:20:  `log "a", "b", "c", "aa"
< 1320544134 486557 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicateM
< 1320544135 396279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a]
< 1320544136 568687 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t permutations
< 1320544137 300663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320544180 565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log "0", "1", "01", "11"
< 1320544192 57835 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-06.txt:01:49:40:  `log "0", "1", "01", "11"
< 1320544203 978330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320544266 71979 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> map (\i -> permutations $ replicateM i l) [1..]) "01"
< 1320544266 891875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[["0","1"],["1","0"]],[["00","01","10","11"],["01","00","10","11"],["10","...
< 1320544287 153655 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> map (\i -> replicateM i l) [1..]) "01"
< 1320544288 13725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [["0","1"],["00","01","10","11"],["000","001","010","011","100","101","110"...
< 1320544304 511260 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> map (\i -> replicateM i l) [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544305 251765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [["a","b","c"],["aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc"],["aaa","aab",...
< 1320544311 590661 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> bind (\i -> replicateM i l) [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544312 382307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `bind'
< 1320544324 858593 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the kind of logic some people used in the past:  There are seven windows in the head, two nostrils, two ears, two eyes, and a mouth; so in the heavens there are two favorable stars, two unpropitious, two luminaries, and Mercury alone undecided and indifferent. From which and many other similar phenomena of nature such as the seven metals, etc.,
< 1320544328 141093 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> m b) -> m a -> mb
< 1320544328 644568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544328 763177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544328 815588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
< 1320544338 335015 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> (\i -> replicateM i l =<<) [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544339 96505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `)'
< 1320544341 551177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it were tedious to enumerate, we gather that the number of planets is necessarily seven. [...] Moreover, the satellites are invisible to the naked eye and therefore can have no influence on the earth and therefore would be useless and therefore do not exist.
< 1320544343 619193 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> (\i -> replicateM i l) =<< [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544344 432261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"...
< 1320544356 631723 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\l -> (\i -> replicateM i l) =<< [1..])
< 1320544356 915874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :([1..] >>=) . flip replicateM
< 1320544378 501252 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544383 361882 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-19.txt:03:09:44:  :t replicateM
< 1320544386 975443 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544393 973025 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-26.txt:07:10:34:  > join . join $ (`replicateM` words "son I am proud") =<< [3..]
< 1320544407 492861 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join
< 1320544408 284146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
< 1320544418 387437 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> m b) -> m a -> mb
< 1320544418 872684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544418 990184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544419 42862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
< 1320544420 315023 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1320544421 494861 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544426 691499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-20.txt:05:11:36:  ?ty replicateM
< 1320544430 723672 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544435 849368 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-16.txt:07:58:51:  > drop 6 $ replicateM 3 "012"
< 1320544447 945244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] >>= replicateM
< 1320544448 996272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[b]'
< 1320544449 114924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `m a -> m ...
< 1320544454 399916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] >>= flip replicateM "abc"
< 1320544456 250862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"...
< 1320544458 272300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: hth
< 1320544463 793231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem in the `log query was the spaces
< 1320544472 584480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the use of "abc" as the alphabet, probably
< 1320544480 293337 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1320545865 716696 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Cirno-chan
< 1320545875 868532 :Cirno-chan!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname
< 1320546314 608765 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1320546749 712426 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320546757 138165 :SilverShot!~vargas.la@200.108.108.170 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320546758 964433 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-153.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320546893 113426 :SilverShot!~vargas.la@200.108.108.170 PART :#esoteric
< 1320546912 987827 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) (join . flatten [1..2])
< 1320546913 822493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `Data.Tree.Tree (m (m a))'
< 1320546913 942101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inf...
< 1320546920 465075 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) (join . cycle [1..3])
< 1320546921 203927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instances for (GHC.Num.Num (m a),
< 1320546921 324247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                   GHC.Num.Num (m (m a...
< 1320546935 343092 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) (join $ cycle [1, 2])
< 1320546936 16216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a])
< 1320546936 250797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1212' at  filter (==2) $ join $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546966 677638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a])
< 1320546966 796360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1212' at  filter (==2) $ join $ join $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546976 318896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [[a]])
< 1320546976 436257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1212' at  *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
< 1320546990 904176 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546991 662952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => [t]
< 1320546995 413778 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546996 159057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a])
< 1320546996 276659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_112' at  cycle [1, 2]
< 1320547001 572310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,...
< 1320547005 755075 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woops
< 1320547009 969166 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320547010 782105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,...
< 1320547768 576375 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle m [x] -> [m x]
< 1320547768 815106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List transpose :: [[a]] -> [[a]]
< 1320547768 929889 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1320547768 982538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List inits :: [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320547954 795499 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM
< 1320547955 677453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b]
< 1320547976 386271 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [IO a] -> IO [a]
< 1320547976 659362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude sequence :: Monad m => [m a] -> m [a]
< 1320547976 776798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad sequence :: Monad m => [m a] -> m [a]
< 1320547976 829390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1320548143 586196 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot responds to private messages, too
< 1320548152 578629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Madoka-Kaname knows and doesn't care
< 1320548158 460589 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1320548406 614442 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM
< 1320548407 427096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b]
< 1320548461 438571 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..5]
< 1320548462 246443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,2,3,4,5]
< 1320548491 809747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320548635 420027 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :urusai!
< 1320548653 859439 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :うるさい
< 1320548813 597132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't difficulty reasoning about space and time efficiency of Haskell programs is really an argument against its use for high performance programs.
< 1320548817 752980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't think
< 1320548885 506038 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Really? I'd think that would be the main argument.
< 1320548927 368434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any compiled implementation of a language that optimizes is going to do possibly non-obvious things once compiled, regardless of evaluation order. But wait! there's more!
< 1320548953 50651 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldl
< 1320548953 862906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a
< 1320548967 648391 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if it really matters you might be using measurements rather than reasoning anyway
< 1320548996 119234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who actually understands Haskells evaluation semantics can reason (and measure as you said) about space/time usage. The same applies to C++.
< 1320549014 82192 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C++ nub isn't going to know shit about how to optimize C++.
< 1320549071 707733 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being ignorant of something is not an argument against it.
< 1320549075 566944 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"given a sufficiently smart programmer"?
< 1320549082 386314 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Map a), (Set a) => a
< 1320549082 502242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error:
< 1320549082 554798 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^
< 1320549082 658216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (Map a), (Set a) => a
< 1320549082 710718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :         ^
< 1320549084 902067 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Map a) (Set a) => a
< 1320549085 173466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error:
< 1320549085 289435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (Map a) (Set a) => a
< 1320549085 342226 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  ^
< 1320549104 664363 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ತ_ತ
< 1320549107 929357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname doesn't actually no Haskell.
< 1320549108 180759 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Map a, Set a) => a
< 1320549108 685183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown class Map
< 1320549108 738050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude undefined :: a
< 1320549108 738224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function fix :: (a -> a) -> a
< 1320549114 157306 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: can you quit spamming?
< 1320549116 502741 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't no English.
< 1320549117 884298 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1320549122 235917 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks!
< 1320549127 450235 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a good deal more abstracted from how computers tend to work than C++.
< 1320549190 639371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1320549214 628690 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this was ... news to you?
< 1320549256 990565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no)
< 1320549268 531709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just kind of bewildered as to what it's implying.
< 1320549283 261946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers can't reason through abstraction or something?
< 1320549286 310202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs.
< 1320549354 276686 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like garbage collection make performance more difficult to reason about, for instance.
< 1320549360 481893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone said "impossible".
< 1320549362 797498 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is pretty damn abstracted from how computers tend to work, though.
< 1320549390 737244 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True.
< 1320550525 769210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not sure the machine mismatch matters.
< 1320550550 14383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: As long as your mental conception of Haskell is low-level enough to account for thunks and sharing, then pretty much all the reductions to standard hardware don't change anything except constant factors.
< 1320550607 593830 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant factors matter when you want to write high-performance programs.
< 1320550717 786616 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "high-performance". :)
< 1320551105 669880 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what context this conversation came up in.
< 1320551131 980651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll define it as "where you care about performance enough to worry about constant factors". :-)
< 1320551141 345390 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unsafeCoerce
< 1320551154 967532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, to clarify: Small constant factors :P
< 1320551216 940812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You don't really have to care that much about how GHC goes from the level involving thunks and sharing to the machine code, since it's not going to end up /slower/ than you perceive on that level
< 1320551321 122557 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In such a context anything shy of assembly is going to involve at least a little bit anguish.
< 1320551346 756649 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ shy of assembly//
< 1320551746 472304 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320552145 432823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a anime crossword in mathNEWS that although the clues are in English, you must write the answers using katakana.
< 1320552564 108061 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't decide if that's lame or awesome
< 1320552620 966721 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: it is mathnews, therefore awesome
< 1320552743 234917 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lame.
< 1320552811 874772 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how japanese coders name variables in c++
< 1320552844 810852 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully in English.
< 1320552861 220283 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, though. :-(
< 1320553037 813279 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to go with "that's a crapshoot".
< 1320553073 541296 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would like to add that "¥n" still drives me bonkers.
< 1320553116 569653 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh
< 1320553128 243107 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese backslash
< 1320553130 562350 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why
< 1320553143 270339 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's "\n".
< 1320553150 120628 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320553156 816360 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks windows
< 1320553166 931584 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's not even slightly Microsoft's fault.
< 1320553171 755001 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1320553184 266789 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the fault of JIS X 0201.
< 1320553221 333603 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 8-bit ASCII superset encoding that was used for a while on early Japanese computers.
< 1320553227 982349 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda sucks yeah
< 1320553235 276889 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It encoded ¥ where \ is on normal ASCII.
< 1320553241 394486 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have taken one of the 0-31 range characters
< 1320553245 738283 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses those
< 1320553256 68875 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except tab and newline ofc
< 1320553273 228070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: The 0-31 range characters are control characters. I sometimes use them for purpose of control characters.
< 1320553426 719578 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320553453 692098 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :figured most people decided in band signaling was stupid and moved to other means
< 1320553473 974265 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, JIS X 0201 sucks in every way imaginable for use in Japanese.
< 1320553817 828279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you need to include control characters in the data, that is a reason they have a Data Link Escape control character in ASCII.
< 1320554170 183651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: dos used all of the control chars as symbols
< 1320554211 384176 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, cause the char rom had the space
< 1320554230 606274 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and text mode has no escape chars ofc
< 1320554258 486420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; it is CP437, which used all 256 slots (although 0, 32, and 255 are all blank). Sometimes still used today.
< 1320554296 671616 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However the control characters had meanings as control characters too; but if poked directly into video memory they could be displayed.
< 1320554498 851719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS has the same function today.
< 1320554541 993916 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :vga text mode hasn't changed much no
< 1320554684 964071 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you run FreeDOS, it will work. Linux uses something more complicated so it can display more characters at once and so on.
< 1320554731 53890 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Linux using a VGA text mode pretty much just does ASCII.
< 1320554731 185440 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it's over 512 chars it has to be an emulation yes
< 1320554749 914098 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you only can pull more characters using a framebuffer.
< 1320554764 76698 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the screen grid size is more than 80x25 as well
< 1320554782 773569 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's more VGA text modes than that.
< 1320554808 637702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on the computer at FreeGeek, the ability for the Linux terminal to play sound appears broken, as far as I can tell.
< 1320554814 623502 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't change the hard limit of 256 (or 512 if you use different chars for colors 8-15) :D
< 1320554872 126075 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you used a set of 8x1 pixel characters kinda like a msx text mode game
< 1320554892 161533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes, I know of that. It is limit 256, but there is a way to use different chars for high intensity. Actually, I discovered that by accident when I was running font programs in strange ways on a DOS computer; only later on have I found proper documentation about how this works.
< 1320555010 245384 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: yeah you can see it used in impulse tracker
< 1320555080 791919 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I discovered it by running multiple programs incorrectly that don't go together. I haven't used Impulse Tracker.
< 1320555248 331009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of how to implement TeX's ligaturing algorithm in Haskell; maybe I should do it on paper since that does seem to help sometimes.
< 1320555324 651043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I have:   typesetSimpleString :: Font -> String -> PageObject; typesetSimpleString f s = Text f $ typesetSimpleChar f s (leftBoundChar f); typesetSimpleChar :: Font -> String -> [LigKern] -> TextString;
< 1320555718 453099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320555933 581750 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320556401 592497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : In North America although not generally in the United Kingdom, the term seafood applies also to any fresh water life eaten by humans, so all edible aquatic life can be referred to as seafood.
< 1320556408 569017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, interesting.
< 1320556578 911109 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much, though usually it's limited to fish & shellfish.
< 1320556630 124265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, I'm familiar with the US usage. I just ate fresh water catfish and I would call it seafood.
< 1320556642 412974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hadn't ever considered that it wasn't. :P
< 1320556644 622072 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320556684 204485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently eating seafood is really fucking good for you.
< 1320556781 829427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vietnamese catfish cannot be legally marketed as catfish in the US, and is subsequently referred to as swai or basa [24] Only fish of the family Ictaluridae may be marketed as catfish in the United States.
< 1320556785 832555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more weird food laws.
< 1320557657 362491 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320557794 940824 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Fractional -> Intergral
< 1320557795 176927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Fractional
< 1320557795 408391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b
< 1320557795 460958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b
< 1320557804 71613 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's Rational
< 1320557804 573858 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp
< 1320558218 856933 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Double
< 1320558219 208822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a
< 1320558219 369715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a
< 1320558219 422004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts breakpoint :: a -> a
< 1320558281 237722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: what are you trying to do.
< 1320558288 974298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try the actual hoogle site.
< 1320558810 902805 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320560188 42759 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db401a3.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320560208 864956 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320560337 189053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I wonder why desserts traditionally come at the end of meals?
< 1320560520 10557 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320562349 327090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320562411 888926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1320562441 688333 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning elliott
< 1320562554 750070 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vietnamese catfish cannot be legally marketed as catfish in the US, and is subsequently referred to as swai or basa [24] Only fish of the family Ictaluridae may be marketed as catfish in the United States.
< 1320562568 997419 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when my dad says "kattfisk", he means fish to feed the cat.
< 1320562665 687228 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:58:29:  Does the ddate program allow you to switch which kind of Discordian calendar you want?
< 1320562682 256352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does he say that a lot?
< 1320562683 187027 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it, sort of, switch in an unpredictable way...
< 1320562700 183169 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well probably not :P
< 1320562791 65809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the other point is we don't use that to name any species in norwegian.
< 1320562805 770397 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i'm aware of.
< 1320562938 541016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sea kittens
< 1320562987 104147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :land fish
< 1320563010 656962 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET YOUR DELICIOUS LAND FISH HERE
< 1320563022 613081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i take it you missed the reference :
< 1320563025 20775 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY RECENTLY DEWHISKERED
< 1320563031 224371 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't think i missed it
< 1320563039 3909 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just reversed it
< 1320563059 98947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P
< 1320563081 163412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> DLL
< 1320563082 95271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `DLL'
< 1320563207 747663 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i'm not very inventive there
< 1320563214 166820 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'My wife and I have decided to start calling our cats "Land Fish".'
< 1320563310 215525 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apparently stephen colbert used the phrase
< 1320563372 396116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_fish
< 1320563377 962938 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :first hit for "land fish"
< 1320563416 17486 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i added sea kitten to the search
< 1320563538 956579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/game.asp
< 1320563793 750505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I actually just played a seakitten dress up game.
< 1320563916 945196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon you will be possessed by an irrestible urge to eat nothing but strawberries and seaweed.
< 1320564587 147969 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's face it: if cats looked, tasted, and mostly acted like fish except on land, I'd eat cat. With glee.
< 1320564606 206435 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sea kittens" is solid fail.
< 1320564659 394582 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320564716 184035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how do you know they don't taste like fish?
< 1320564721 174955 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they taste better?
< 1320564723 3586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm???
< 1320564793 387251 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn*
< 1320564794 719858 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320564824 991844 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You'll note taste wasn't the only criterion there.
< 1320564960 241608 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what if cats looked, tastes, and acted like cats and were delicious?
< 1320564964 837722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weoijroiwejrowiejet huh what now huh?
< 1320565098 335207 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyaaaa
< 1320565501 526530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
< 1320565510 847268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this entire article is written by a cat-lover
< 1320565523 9214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it basically talks about all of their awesome skillz.
< 1320565650 591841 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put on of those not neutral thingies in
< 1320565886 613216 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10**10)**(2**32)
< 1320565887 470340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Infinity
< 1320565894 333782 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10^10)^(2^32)
< 1320565909 519695 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *E
< 1320565927 833349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 `div` 0, 1/0)
< 1320565931 683905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320565937 49561 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 `div` 0
< 1320565945 366165 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `div` 0
< 1320565946 398317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: divide by zero
< 1320565951 292984 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 / 0
< 1320565952 39416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Infinity
< 1320566201 429069 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds some vandalism at the end of the Cat article
< 1320566353 258412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `mod` 0
< 1320566356 851182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: divide by zero
< 1320566506 833565 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second 01:00 is the best time of day.
< 1320566799 364697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's only one 01:00 in a day :)
< 1320566821 637110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is special
< 1320566822 963755 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not today.
< 1320566842 931236 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, 01:59 was followed by 01:00.
< 1320566917 645567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. we did that ages ago.
< 1320566935 388866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also: fuck dst
< 1320566943 569061 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US decided to do more summer time than standard a couple years back.
< 1320566945 258453 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed.
< 1320566954 952003 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst is the worst :(
< 1320566962 263325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ANYONE like dsty
< 1320566963 376509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds
< 1320566964 453599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst
< 1320566968 710969 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy second 01:00. I despise 01:59 being followed by 03:00.
< 1320566974 214614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even my fingers don't like dst
< 1320566978 715289 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad people enjoy dst
< 1320566978 767730 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It averages out to a mild hatred for DST.
< 1320567003 212677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst days are offset in a bad way
< 1320567021 875168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe we can do second 01:00 every day, and makes the minutes in an hour e.g. in the middle of the workday go twice as fast
< 1320567030 485338 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we should eliminate the "spring back" bit.
< 1320567045 771766 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fall forward?
< 1320567045 997157 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I approve of your 25 hour day plan.
< 1320567053 409553 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1320567056 84403 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spring forward.
< 1320567061 90177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "and makes the minutes in an hour e.g. in the middle of the workday go twice as fast"
< 1320567062 753084 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck DST.
< 1320567069 683349 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want 25 hour days.
< 1320567090 918768 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make everyone *else* have trouble maintaining normal sleep. :P
< 1320567141 255091 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh does someone know how to view bot edits in wikipedia's page histories?
< 1320567180 98186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I
< 1320567180 995221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1320567189 893199 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i found some vandalism, but there is no sign of it in the diffs
< 1320567194 176905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know anti-vandalism etc. bots don't make edits marked as bot
< 1320567204 36588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there is
< 1320567209 170395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cache
< 1320567214 28355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or looking harder :)
< 1320567231 127454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes
< 1320567237 843251 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32522
< 1320567269 826413 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it's actually in an included template.
< 1320567320 110033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, that sounds likely
< 1320567340 634737 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if wikipedia wasn't so dog slow...
< 1320567352 895880 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess it would be, on the cat page.
< 1320567363 831016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arf arf arf
< 1320567477 130051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320567516 505853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320567563 403164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567563 794647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567564 234807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567564 531040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567564 794301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567571 219466 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :649)  elliott: so what are the two issues with xfce?   they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two
< 1320567573 183407 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :398)  oerjan: but hypothetically, assume a Christian spontaneously materialised during the apocalypse
< 1320567586 962112 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :627)  Dear god stop staring at me.   no never   monqy is always staring at everyone.   it takes many eyes to do this but I manage   He is an inspiration to us all.
< 1320567587 321580 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :465)  elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for!
< 1320567587 439094 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :261)  Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway?
< 1320567626 1737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :649 is the worst but I don't have the heart to remove any
< 1320567690 872353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming
< 1320567716 5667 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-02.txt:10:46:13:  `addquote  so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming
< 1320567725 647276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logurl 2011-10-02.txt:10:46:13:
< 1320567728 147543 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-10-02
< 1320567844 511473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:43:37:  elliott: i like this dialogue. because im never going to drop an idea so easily. whatever holes you can find in the idea i can apply more patches
< 1320567844 663146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was basically the height of itidity
< 1320568080 187482 :spl1nt!dcec82df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.236.130.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320568140 266836 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1320568154 35462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you see vandalism at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#External_links ?
< 1320568169 9436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1320568183 931476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see...
< 1320568203 650378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: trying to purge it
< 1320568219 302410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not in the page when i try to edit it :P
< 1320568222 37731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see, all gone
< 1320568224 546055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just cached
< 1320568230 291047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I purged the page and now it's fixed
< 1320568236 673980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320568242 794797 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've reloaded several times D:
< 1320568249 956054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: purging is a MW thing.
< 1320568251 734670 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should make a movie about fungot
< 1320568252 711822 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: there was no sleep for either of them that night, but sat up thinking of the door, and the bed of death with the black pall but is finally restored to security and happiness with her lover fnord, after the death of his only son conrad on the latter's fnord fnord,
< 1320568255 531206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try refreshing now
< 1320568264 507044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just append ?action=purge to a page url and click the button
< 1320568267 828301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it re-renders the page on the server side
< 1320568275 734516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320568283 97299 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it worked by simply reloading now
< 1320568292 422660 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume your purge fixed it for everyone
< 1320568294 932194 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why won't my brother's XBox read discs? I just want to play AC:B
< 1320568297 309201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My main hobby outside Wikipedia is the VMS Mosaic web browser (hence my username)."
< 1320568303 596744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a really shitty hobby, User:VMS_Mosaic.
< 1320568306 803146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep
< 1320568395 198753 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMS Mosaic?
< 1320568410 854171 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568418 312135 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568423 667396 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----###
< 1320568440 149565 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure what VMS is...
< 1320568469 174050 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an old OS
< 1320568470 590254 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father once ported vi to VMS. It was apparently quite popular.
< 1320568473 386042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1320568480 88023 :spl1nt!dcec82df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.236.130.223 QUIT :Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1320568510 867285 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first university account was on a VAX/VMS system
< 1320568514 432031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this was your father's operating system
< 1320568539 480226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more civilized software from a more civilized time
< 1320568575 569248 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMS was many things, but I don't know if civilized is among them.
< 1320568590 192738 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it stand for?
< 1320568633 46688 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual Memory System, apparently.
< 1320568656 462536 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "VMS"
< 1320568657 486717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "WNT"
< 1320568658 689302 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg
< 1320568675 739678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows NT?
< 1320568680 207253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  VMS Mosaic?   I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.   Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568682 509859 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :708)  VMS Mosaic?   I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.   Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568684 909357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* spl1nt has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
< 1320568685 940133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg :')
< 1320568687 907504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was our friend.
< 1320568729 857347 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a spl1nt?
< 1320568741 568205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best spl1nt
< 1320568750 85521 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for mending broken b0nes
< 1320568836 281772 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the VMS hierarchical help system
< 1320568852 128124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had memories of VMS.
< 1320568861 88990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could know that it would be foolish to wish for memories of VMS.
< 1320568869 229617 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have memories of some operating system
< 1320568874 196787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was text-based
< 1320568878 780982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in a garage
< 1320568880 872215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos
< 1320568891 655362 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CP/M
< 1320568896 546763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you've used dos without realising then it's dos then i'm really weirded out
< 1320568898 628444 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Mount Waverley, VIC
< 1320568908 568656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 3-4
< 1320568909 761089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. from when you lived in scotland
< 1320568913 545015 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320568938 872991 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY ASSASSIN'S CREED HAS LOADED
< 1320568945 752843 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did help pascal, you got help on the pascal program but also a submenu for individual functions
< 1320568963 466889 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMS apparently had this fancy QIO thing.
< 1320568963 700854 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hierarchy was quite deep
< 1320568976 914447 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pascal compiler
< 1320569470 2583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was Korean, I'd be fearing for my life
< 1320569476 598194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :648)  sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life.
< 1320569477 34163 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when the driver came out of those years to engulf him utterly.
< 1320569477 101054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320569479 702730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i remember that
< 1320569510 839123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't that essentially what info does
< 1320569524 71622 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a fan and a closed door
< 1320569561 821658 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess.  on the command line, this was more like a nested version of irssi help, though
< 1320569585 706395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, so you went deeper by taking the last command and appending?
< 1320569590 744356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like http >:)
< 1320569595 268983 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a graphical version, but i only rarely saw an actual DEC workstation
< 1320569595 440487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: beware fan death
< 1320569634 214247 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full documentation for blahB is maintained as a Texinfo manual.   If the info and blah programs are properly installed at your site, the command info blah should give you access to the complete manual.
< 1320569640 487625 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, man, an irssi bug.
< 1320569657 786642 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except you didn't have to prepend the current term if you were already on it, this was interactive.
< 1320569668 444697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so it's not command-line :P
< 1320569690 773721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess i meant terminal, as opposed to graphical
< 1320569694 959303 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type: something something CtrlBblahCtrlB something something, where CtrlB is the "bold" indicator. Then move cursor on top of the "b" in "blah", and press M-d.
< 1320569695 161471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320569724 870485 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mainly logged in via genuine physical VT100/VT3something terminals
< 1320569727 598273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did it actually have a line-based interface, though, or was it layout-based (i.e. like typical guis, moving a cursor around and activating things)
< 1320569739 540626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: line-based
< 1320569770 819961 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was still the best help system i'd seen at the time :P
< 1320569773 775035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it sounds like info has the kind of structure you want, it's just that the clients suck :)
< 1320569789 643974 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess no one here appreciates a good irssi bug.
< 1320569789 697054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody but GNU people want to, or do, write info pages...
< 1320569803 436134 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/good/bad/
< 1320569804 367822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I figure they're probably too numerous to appreciate.
< 1320569805 596603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like lives.
< 1320569817 975461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until there are, like, less than a billion people alive, I'm a sociopath.
< 1320569845 907131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :592)  monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people.  [...around half an hour later...]   @messages   quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell
< 1320569849 744257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the most beautiful thing to ever happen
< 1320569903 237102 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320569941 817555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :567)  mmm these music samples are still so tasteful
< 1320569941 977372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :568)  im sampling ultra hip holiday   hes the boogie woogie santa clause   switching to oktoberfest   yes i would love to shop to this
< 1320569944 990526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the qdb makes great light reading
< 1320570699 602889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320570738 148357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexander Kramir, from the novel Lentara is a fairly accurately portrayed boy with Albinism who helps an alien race save the Earth and falls in love with an alien. He later fathers a child who will help save the universe
< 1320570742 756033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is probably better light reading.
< 1320571064 167975 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320571064 551713 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
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< 1320571125 158539 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320571411 684685 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Radiateur
< 1320573363 103595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320573497 259866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honey bees transform nectar into honey by a process of regurgitation, and store it as a primary food source in wax honeycombs inside the beehive. Beekeeping practices encourage overproduction of honey so the excess can be taken from the colony.
< 1320573504 386871 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm regurgitated nectar.
< 1320573527 28175 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, bleaching brain
< 1320573579 797843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youd idn't know that?
< 1320573604 806253 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably have known at previous pre-bleaching occasions
< 1320573668 278651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :545)  well, you have bested me   itidus20: Yes.
< 1320573669 498936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::')
< 1320573974 455535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :484)  interestingly enough, go is a second player win   chess is also first player win   tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw.
< 1320573981 434898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you ever read this qdb i mean damn
< 1320574077 944584 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320574521 595094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :356)  http://www.sessionmagazine.com/img/nature/worlds-10-smallest-animals/worlds-10-smallest-animals07.jpg   worlds biggest thumb
< 1320574536 405673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's getting to that stage in the fax cycle where i start to miss em
< 1320575180 779917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :241)  LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary.  LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary.
< 1320575189 694272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wonder whether phatom and pikh actually said that
< 1320575254 98490 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320575304 733591 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320575454 357368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did.
< 1320575476 44452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log 
< 1320575481 359708 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-14.txt:23:04:21:  ​261)  LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary.  LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary. \ 272)  oerjan: also actually A(4, 4) is larger than
< 1320575486 588506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sceptical
< 1320575499 752809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember saying it!
< 1320575506 992996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're talking about the nicks.
< 1320575511 437627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i am
< 1320575764 508427 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 272
< 1320575766 727508 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :272)  !bfjoust test (-)*10000   Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9   yay
< 1320575775 45071 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1320575780 234432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 271
< 1320575782 501124 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :271)  Deewiant: ha, you were wrong, I have stacks, fungespace and MULTIPLE functions!  and a monad!  nothing can stop me now!
< 1320575797 433847 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum
< 1320575808 216997 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 261
< 1320575810 230399 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :261)  Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway?
< 1320575819 765111 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1320575836 986237 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 252
< 1320575839 584437 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :252)  ah yes, indeed, alan turing was gay and stupid
< 1320575850 447170 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough
< 1320575871 901275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320575980 71779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1320576488 157510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320576829 772584 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1320577731 883584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1320580092 983342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there?
< 1320580103 514963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320580105 37768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there may be ways to get better support for multilib on arch
< 1320580112 272410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found a package named gcc-multilib
< 1320580115 357245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet tried it
< 1320580129 990327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, gcc-multilib is part of the multilib repos.
< 1320580133 613564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used in conjunction with them.
< 1320580134 350212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320580140 765387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it provides gcc
< 1320580145 737947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to pacman -Si
< 1320580147 378358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't "better support", it's "being able to link with multilib things at all". What's your point?
< 1320580153 847438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1320580158 382237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still the same shitty support at the core.
< 1320580163 552913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320580165 806040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you're meant to replace gcc with gcc-multilib.
< 1320580603 472015 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1320580744 597926 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
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< 1320580804 47107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there a name for "initialism except they selected X instead of E for words starting with Ex-"?
< 1320580813 943432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stupid"
< 1320580819 441989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also "common"
< 1320580830 686898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it an acronym, nobody cares
< 1320580833 439061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320580851 408165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most people don't know what "initialism" even is
< 1320580859 304014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two examples that spring to my mind: XML and AVX)
< 1320581110 451748 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMS, note there was EMS before.
< 1320581140 396083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uncontrollably became more X-Treme.
< 1320581149 586217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the DOS thingy?
< 1320581153 945457 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts getting ridiculous when these terms are translated.
< 1320581157 238389 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1320581173 947816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : It starts getting ridiculous when these terms are translated. <-- oh?
< 1320581174 768367 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembering of "Erweiterungsspeicher" and "Expansionsspeicher"...
< 1320581196 276039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume I don't understand German
< 1320581236 509021 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just that you take the spelled out version of these acronyms in english (most people already don't know of), and translate them to German.
< 1320581246 749788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320581251 924079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320581259 226540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320581264 280462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, makes sense so far
< 1320581285 324035 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :End result: You get something nobody undestands and also can't correlate to the maybe known terms XMS/EMS as the acronyms do not really fit to the german terms.
< 1320581292 596377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320581322 434406 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that EMS means Expanded Memory Specification, XMS means Extended Memory Specification.
< 1320581328 349334 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both words starting with "Ex"...
< 1320581332 32757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320581357 929885 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the german translation, only one word starts with Ex - which is expanded that has been left as technical term.
< 1320581370 437392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320581376 944087 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :While eXtended has been replaced with the german term "Erweiterung".
< 1320581395 268613 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :XHTML too, but that's just following in XML's footsteps.
< 1320581411 481167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember hearing "utökat minne" in Swedish. I don't remember which one of those that refers to, literally that means "extended memory" though.
< 1320581413 237799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and XP when it's standing for "eXperience Points".
< 1320581416 127126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up with a Mac
< 1320581418 6240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a PC
< 1320581423 896589 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC these translations are made by Digital Research - but do you think Microsoft learned anything of that?
< 1320581430 632443 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of->from...
< 1320581455 641542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, should be EP in all games
< 1320581467 886633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, did windows xp stand for Windows Experience Points?
< 1320581483 139236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't xbox have some "microsoft points" or something
< 1320581490 523972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... maybe they confused the names somehow?
< 1320581491 615945 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eXPerience, I'd think.
< 1320581498 727116 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :They introduced the HMA (a 286 concept of magically adding a near 64k memory addressable in DOS). Which was translated as "Oberer Speicher" in German.
< 1320581527 487238 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what the marketing people say. Some people claim in fact it means eXtra Problems.
< 1320581579 46210 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HMA translation was not that bad until another concept of extending conventional memory, called "upper memory blocks" (UMB).
< 1320581589 54769 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was then translated as "hoher Speicher".
< 1320581610 150196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, xp was probably one of the better windows versions so far. Especially the 64-bit one.
< 1320581629 926715 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the ethymologic connection between "hoher Speicher" and "high memory" on the one hand, and "upper memory" and "oberer Speicher" on the other hand.
< 1320581633 985627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Me + Windows XP = the almighty Windows Mexp.
< 1320581641 811591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Windows Sexp, but with a sugary syntax.
< 1320581654 273812 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish terminology for EMS and XMS is "laajennettu muisti" and "jatkettu muisti", those are probably the closest-in-meaning words for "expanded" and "extended".
< 1320581655 246717 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess you are talking about XP after SP1 or so.
< 1320581668 618265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, yeah, but compared to 9x it was way way better.
< 1320581685 896856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the original I mean
< 1320581688 142193 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 9x is a game loader, not an operating system ;)
< 1320581691 814169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320581700 221580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Then what's DOS?
< 1320581706 756003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :older game loader
< 1320581710 859968 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game loader with bad graphics?-)
< 1320581722 299425 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game loader missing a common 32 bit driver infrastructure.
< 1320581724 40702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :game loader not even pretending to have multitasking
< 1320581741 513810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good god you guys, be patient, twice11 MIGHT have generated perfect quote material with a one-word response like "Crap"!
< 1320581743 561467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you ruined it!
< 1320581747 362601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ruined everything!
< 1320581753 276280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, I suspect that windows server might be the best windows version, since so far xp 64-bit has been the best I used, and that was based on windows server 2003 iirc.
< 1320581795 647299 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 also works not that bad, as far as I have experience with Windows.
< 1320581818 352256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, windows 7 is quite bloated compared to XP. Try installing both on a SATA 1 disk. Check boot times.
< 1320581824 640978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 64-bit of both
< 1320581835 507259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no! Boot times!
< 1320581841 859996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing Vorpal told me he doesn't care about just a few weeks ago.
< 1320581844 273790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also general sluggishness of the interface
< 1320581846 562095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or less, actually.
< 1320581873 976648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't experienced any interface sluggishness with 7 at all.
< 1320581874 326815 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Compare boot times of Windows XP and DOS on the same hardware
< 1320581883 955110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't really care about 10 seconds vs. half a minute on a system I rarely reboot. I do care about 2 minutes vs. 7 minutes on a system I reboot often.
< 1320581890 968382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have to consider the context.
< 1320581899 959669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It sounds like the context is: your system is really shitty. :p
< 1320581903 599359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, indeed.
< 1320581912 861698 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you run Windows XP and Windows 7 on the same system with 384MB RAM, Win 7 will be much more sluggish, of course.
< 1320581922 239365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yeah, and I bet Windows 7 is really sluggish on this 286 I just materialised :P
< 1320581929 770830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, it probably doesn't even RUN on my Commodore 64.
< 1320581933 718132 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone
< 1320581933 771296 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows XP won't run on it, too.
< 1320581939 875107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, thing is, apart from the disk the system in question is top notch
< 1320581950 85365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK guys, what's the best Windows version for ENIACs?
< 1320581951 919097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, I simply reused an old disk for installing windows 7 on.
< 1320581978 746644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not THAT old either.
< 1320581986 647323 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :People tried hard to get WinXP getting run on minimal hardware. I guess they ended up on an underclocked 486 with 8MB of RAM.
< 1320581998 754481 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install they needed a Pentium with 24MB.
< 1320582002 433123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I remember that.
< 1320582004 328729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was awesome.
< 1320582006 432452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320582008 185593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1320582016 329239 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 minute boot time or like that.
< 1320582026 31228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess WinPE or such?
< 1320582034 406781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean full XP?
< 1320582039 654676 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, full XP.
< 1320582043 430137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive
< 1320582049 181558 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it was not usable at all...
< 1320582053 539744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1320582095 897869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, anyway linux runs fine from that same SATA 1 disk that windows 7 runs terribly from. And XP ran fine from it too back in the days.
< 1320582113 173644 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :German version of one of those tests: http://www.winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini.htm
< 1320582147 593360 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And english version: http://www.winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini.htm.en
< 1320582229 756666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former displayed as English for me too
< 1320582239 566060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it looks at the http headers for preferred language
< 1320582245 871844 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses that, too.
< 1320582335 380269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it uses pixie magic.
< 1320582341 712437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teach the controversy.
< 1320582561 233660 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, seems I was wrong - at least these people did not swap the CPU to a 486 after installation.
< 1320582570 249725 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was 18MB RAM minimum, not 8MB.
< 1320582578 769275 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for exaggregating.
< 1320582653 119440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but feel they gave up right when things could have become really interesting.
< 1320582661 524162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. patching the XP installer to stop it complaining about hardware :)
< 1320582715 456167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1320582735 596010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they wanted to do this on a vanilla xp obviously
< 1320582764 320108 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess the installer has some reason to check for CMPXCHG8B
< 1320582776 386885 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that instruction is introduced with the Pentium.
< 1320582787 267346 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPUID is available on late 486, too.
< 1320582795 420460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Microsoft probably had some reason to tell people not to use XP on machines with <64 megs of ram, too :-)
< 1320582822 497498 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, but I am quite confident, the XP kernel or ntdll indeed uses CMPXCHG8B.
< 1320582840 353687 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, if you do this kind of stuff, just add an invalid opcode handler...
< 1320582847 458815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But maybe not always? :-)
< 1320582851 50406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can turn that stuff off.
< 1320582880 98930 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMPXCHG8B is a core instruction for some kind of lockless thread-safe linked lists.
< 1320582899 550044 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like very likely used in the deep core of the kernel.
< 1320582900 319173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can emulate CMPXCHG8B. I don't know what the semantics of that are wrt bus mastering hardware though
< 1320582949 368175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: You know, f00f bug involved CMPXCHG8B...
< 1320582951 988503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why it checks.
< 1320582958 254103 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a real 486 board with ISA cards - bus mastering problem gone ;)
< 1320582962 31472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1320582963 472330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: But: You could just replace that with a lock.
< 1320582967 174860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could go wrong?
< 1320582996 558111 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMPXCHG8B does a locked operation on 8 bytes at a time.
< 1320583012 944598 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using LOCK can't do an 8-byte-operation.
< 1320583020 453182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a software lock.
< 1320583029 567949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: You could just pause the scheduler while that code runs :)
< 1320583047 890964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a single CPU you could just disable interrupts and do it
< 1320583053 238735 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A software lock is what they replaced by CMPXCHG8B for improved performance...
< 1320583065 368596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yeah, 'cuz that's gonna help SO much on a 486.
< 1320583077 129744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be blazing if only we didn't have software locks!
< 1320583106 813916 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have access to the source of the kernel to be able to replace CMPXCHG8B by software locks or some PUSHF/CLI/POPF magic, it won't be XP anymore.
< 1320583129 873708 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect the CMPXCHG8B instruction to be inlined to many places...
< 1320583154 439518 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding an "undefined opcode" handler sounds less intrusive (and less performant)
< 1320583184 873179 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The story goes on: http://www.winhistory.de/more/386/vistamini.htm Vista on an AMD K5 90MHz, 224MB of RAM.
< 1320583191 684256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a handler is probably the best way to do it.
< 1320583206 925571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :224MB? Pfft
< 1320583232 164909 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be interesting whether you manage to boot 7 on "just" 192MB.
< 1320583238 808134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, what is the minimum for win7 yeah?
< 1320583259 723847 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. Too bad they didn't make a report on that.
< 1320583259 841618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, the last link is german only
< 1320583261 280602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 on a cardboard box with a toothbrush
< 1320583271 381043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some salt
< 1320583295 965154 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't cheat. That is Windows Phone 7!
< 1320583311 157135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D Windows Phone 7 standard deployment platform
< 1320583317 300207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320583320 628070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The toothbrush has to have at LEAST three bristles.
< 1320583326 656472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no more than seven.
< 1320583826 369168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 bristles.
< 1320584101 772963 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows XP whistles...
< 1320584114 854201 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or long Vista horns.
< 1320584199 145485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I remember the days of Longhorn.
< 1320584214 293081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it was basically XP, but it had a horrible sidebar and every window had a garish-as-fuck light blue gradient all over it.
< 1320584945 66988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320584959 645337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was longhorn the codename for xp or vista, I don't remember
< 1320584975 483065 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longhorn -> Vista, Whistler -> XP
< 1320585002 761020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320585003 493355 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Whistler -> Server 2003?
< 1320585009 291811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the code name for 7?
< 1320585022 816798 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longhorn really ready to manufacture? ;)
< 1320585045 388012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Blackcomb, later Vienna
< 1320585048 393113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320585058 612956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a code name for windows 8?
< 1320585074 233106 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of
< 1320585115 318784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 8
< 1320585150 399337 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to de.wikipedia, there were the code names "Mystic" and "Orient" for sucessors of W7 and WSrv2008R2, but now the project seems called "Windows Next"
< 1320585213 69205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1320585238 952943 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, interesting 2008R2 is available for x64 and Itanium, but not for x86.
< 1320585251 335228 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there really that much buisiness interest in Itanium?
< 1320585269 168178 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just some MS-Intel-treaty that they have to support it?
< 1320585311 473342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses Itanium at all.
< 1320585321 408966 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was my impression, too.
< 1320585321 989008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, people do, but they're rounding errors. Legacy rounding errors.
< 1320585345 848943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it has been used in some HPC applications?
< 1320585346 829350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IBM still sell servers with it? It's pretty much the case that people jumped on board Itanium because it was THE FUTURE, and some people haven't managed to jump back off yet.
< 1320585350 134145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not much any more
< 1320585354 185518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah some mainframe stuff
< 1320585379 139402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in theory it is an awesome idea... In practise? Not so much
< 1320585426 265301 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a simple VLIW design is great, but if the realtime out-of-order-scheduling works so well that it beats compile-time VLIW, it's not really helpfull...
< 1320585445 169349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320585480 776501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now would be a great time to tell you all how much I love graph reduction architectures.
< 1320585482 179915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there are some specialized processors using VLIW though
< 1320585489 218230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction sets: LITERALLY OBSOLETE.
< 1320585519 552534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how good are they are number crunching?
< 1320585526 933079 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does Itanium count as "some specized processor"?
< 1320585531 70220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They have arithmetic primitives, yaknow :P
< 1320585537 2567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, not in this context
< 1320585561 865721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1320585575 488481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does pipelining and so on work with them?
< 1320585605 698970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what do you mean with ISAs being obsolete?
< 1320585619 181225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you still need some form of encoding for the input
< 1320585621 475424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not obvious how to answer at all, since there's no concept of an "instruction".
< 1320585628 92779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, but that form doesn't include any instructions.
< 1320585633 305900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a set of rewrite rules.
< 1320585649 292102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't instructions, they don't /do/ anything.
< 1320585651 944923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're declarations.
< 1320585653 734630 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite instructions...
< 1320585660 225720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well the description of how you encode rewrite rules and data must be defined in something similar to an ISA, whatever you call it.
< 1320585667 769139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No?
< 1320585677 410859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISAs are pretty much inherently imperative; they're composed of /instructions/
< 1320585680 996209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declarations aren't instructions
< 1320585688 947251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Except they're not executed in order, or executed at all :)
< 1320585704 640950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: They're just used as rules for the CPU's reduction.
< 1320585705 752394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with something similar I mean "formal documentation of the input expected by the processor"
< 1320585707 84036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes
< 1320585720 462284 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :think speculative execution, out of order execution.
< 1320585720 580471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody thinks that when they think ISA
< 1320585737 685528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Sure, you can do speculative evaluation on such a machine...
< 1320585746 197547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whatever, arguing this will be pointless anyway
< 1320585759 536835 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even today instructions not always executed in order or suddenly rolled back...
< 1320585789 420220 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just instructions including a much more complicated set of conditional execution than just referring to some flag bits.
< 1320585792 528283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, CPU architectures look nothing like their ISAs nowadays.
< 1320585806 786780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're much less imperative in fact... and much more weird :)
< 1320585822 152776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just try really hard to perfectly emulate the old instruction sets for compatibility.
< 1320585823 530816 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The x86 instruction set is weird enough. Really.
< 1320585848 748127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's weird, it's just not as weird as what actually goes on...
< 1320585893 492135 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end, you just interpret that weird x86 instruction set into something sensible.
< 1320585907 194636 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling instead of interpreting failed on the market (see Transmeta)
< 1320585922 611527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1320585994 864804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bus will be the last to be dropped on common consumer x86 PCs: ISA or PCI?
< 1320586008 544886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect ISA will stay around longer, for compatibility.
< 1320586013 223262 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISA is already dropped on consumer PCs.
< 1320586016 225069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Honestly, if I was a compiler dev I would be begging the CPU corps to standardise and give access to the lower-level details... OK, I wouldn't because that sounds like it would fundamentally contradict my Principle of Absolute Laziness, but I can't imagine compiler devs couldn't do a better job at sorting things out than CPUs doing things just-in-time.
< 1320586021 200502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, the slots yes, not the bus
< 1320586035 957242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation P67 Express Chipset Family LPC Controller (rev 05)
< 1320586037 380000 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real ISA is dead.
< 1320586042 263712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, I said bus
< 1320586046 835980 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPC replaced it.
< 1320586056 121889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it is still called ISA bridge thoug
< 1320586058 330597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1320586060 45498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why
< 1320586073 170070 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPC is kind-of 4-bit-parallel serial ISA.
< 1320586096 127733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320586100 56170 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is as a lower pin count (hence the name!), obviously.
< 1320586160 927936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmph: ansi-terminal does nothing for input whatsoever
< 1320586204 986986 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Having the CPU do the lowest level details provides strong advantages: Independence of exact architectural designs, like you are able to add an extra execution engine and all apps are going to use it, and makes things like simultaneous multitrhreading possible at all.
< 1320586225 928678 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some abstractions seems like not being too bad.
< 1320586234 875319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yeah, it's probably true that the microcode layer changes way too quickly for that to be feasible.
< 1320586250 148104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern x86-64: kind of a mess?
< 1320586287 749364 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything called remotely like x86 is something to stay away from if you like to keep sanity.
< 1320586309 818597 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 8086 instruction set might have been a good idea in 1978, though.
< 1320586325 252742 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already the 8088 is an abnomination, in my oppinion.
< 1320586339 909070 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :What use is a processor that starves on instruction fetch bandwidht?
< 1320586362 351535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just buy an FPGA and put a Reduceron on it and build a computer up from that, out of wood.
< 1320586370 858187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I can make a wooden monitor. It would feel very appropriately DIY.
< 1320586443 623100 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But history repeats, processors starving on instruction bandwidth reappear all the time, like the Cx486SLC2 or the first Pentium 4 designs (although in that case, it was the RAM/Northbridge that didn't manage to keep up with the excessive bandwidth required).
< 1320586470 666436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we need is Checkout CPUs. (Problem: The instruction manuals would _probably_ form a black hole.)
< 1320586472 145364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why you have instruction caches
< 1320586520 857009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the current technology you can either make expensive, fast & small RAM or you can make cheap, slow & large RAM.
< 1320586526 318436 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction caches on the mentioned processors are too small, or way to small.
< 1320586537 607196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1320586562 1700 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once inherited a cheap craptop with a Cx486SLC2.
< 1320586574 443721 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bus interface: 16-bit 286-like at 25MHz.
< 1320586586 340229 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processor core: 486 variant at 50MHz.
< 1320586591 557345 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cache size: 1KB.
< 1320586606 409512 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing the processor is fast at is tiny benchmark loops.
< 1320586617 990668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320586677 511014 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320586746 68485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has an L2 cache three times as big as my desktop. Crazy Core 2 Duo.
< 1320586751 314166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 MB L2
< 1320586806 978651 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :By cache is longer than yours! 4MB in a C2D T7200
< 1320586814 480267 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cache...
< 1320586824 156403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320586838 643004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Core 2s go up to like 12 meg cache?
< 1320586842 142222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly
< 1320586848 232878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a laptop C2D though
< 1320586853 458792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were just moving all the RAM to L2.
< 1320586854 557386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8400  @ 2.26GHz
< 1320586854 824093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not!
< 1320586882 526066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I heard of CPUs with 256 MB L2.
< 1320586886 137251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not x86 though
< 1320586887 914423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320586891 824330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it was a PowerPC or Power
< 1320586896 250761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for HPC
< 1320586896 374171 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that some server CPU?
< 1320586901 445184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, HPC even
< 1320586908 101552 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :compute server ;)
< 1320586918 264314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh maybe it was 256 MB L3
< 1320586922 186545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than L2
< 1320586923 383047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1320586927 353273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rather insane
< 1320586931 337364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :789324789234798234 TB L0!!!!!!111
< 1320586976 144842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find the L3 cache info for my laptop in lshw, not sure where else to look
< 1320586987 785685 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 0MB
< 1320586994 256114 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You laptop has no L3 cache.
< 1320586996 97582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, C2D had no L3?
< 1320586996 915852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320587025 867376 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think about the die size if you want an L3 cache that is signicantly bigger than your 3MB L2 cache.
< 1320587081 162637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320587081 749956 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So L3 needs to be outside the processor. The front-side bus is slow enough to have that backed by dual-channel DDR, so what use is a L3 cache.
< 1320587100 542494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop has 6 MB L3 it seems. That is a Core i7 Sandy Bridge. It seems to be internal to the processor.
< 1320587152 146170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core 2 doesn't do L3, Nehalem does.
< 1320587162 77648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, it lists L3 cache in two places? Once as 8 MB and once as 6 MB. Lol lshw
< 1320587190 186736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check what the intel cpu finder thingy has to say about it
< 1320587192 975380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1320587244 759615 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe lshw trusts DMI info.
< 1320587252 986047 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually an extremely bad idea.
< 1320587267 990038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, it is mostly "To be filled by O.E.M."
< 1320587281 650353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has accurate DMI info mostly
< 1320587356 522038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, intel claims 8 MB
< 1320587464 738768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-37.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320587483 333602 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320587672 300643 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, the info amount and structuring of lshw is quite impressive.
< 1320587742 76798 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In (at least) Sandy Bridge processors, it's not L2 cache, it's "Intel® Smart Cache". (That's how it's listed in ark.intel.com/ tech-specs listings.)
< 1320587797 701900 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-smart-cache.html -- wow, that's so Warriors of the Net -esque.
< 1320587810 89364 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320587843 605649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually pronounce it "cash"?
< 1320587887 820595 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't everyone?
< 1320587897 741466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say cash-ey.
< 1320587908 589792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, indeed
< 1320587918 486751 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says "cash", too
< 1320587927 570330 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've never heard cash-ey
< 1320587929 924115 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nobody pronounces it like that
< 1320587934 353066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do!
< 1320587935 97156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "warriors of the net"?
< 1320587939 491826 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :acache indians
< 1320587941 72667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It SOUNDS RIGHT.
< 1320587945 962417 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old joke: "Your parity check is overdrawn and you are out of cash"
< 1320587946 860201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.warriorsofthe.net/
< 1320587968 199271 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you ever wonder how the Internet works? How does a router look like? What color does a IP packet have? How does a IP packet travel through firewall. All the answers and many more can be found in the Warriors of the net move."
< 1320587969 562915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sadly that (and the intel thing) both require flash. Oh well
< 1320587982 551974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway ansi-terminal doesn't do input?? Hmph at you, hmph
< 1320588006 624739 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The latter seems to work just fine with elinks.
< 1320588054 825074 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's even a non-youtube download link to SUnet.)
< 1320588100 774925 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess you mean noecho and nodelay and nocbreak and getch? Yeah, I don't think anything non-curses on Hackage does that
< 1320588112 875952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, libedit/readline/haskeline &co.
< 1320588117 265471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it is youtube indeed
< 1320588123 273181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that's a very specific usecase :-P
< 1320588133 534149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use curses at all, sigh, it's just impossible
< 1320588134 546858 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just go download -> non-youtube link if you don't want flash.
< 1320588162 570603 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm, can you mix e.g. haskeline with ansi-terminal?
< 1320588164 880383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Intel thing is very probably flash-only though.
< 1320588202 1007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ansi-terminal just does output colouration pretty much, so... yeah? It's just printf on steroids. Dunno about Windows. Don't care about Windows.
< 1320588237 583508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, youtube-dl seemed to work
< 1320588243 433 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you don't care about Windows you can implement everything using only putStr and ECMA-48 :-P
< 1320588246 823989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for intel of course
< 1320588249 392676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't even try that
< 1320588260 202671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Except raw input
< 1320588265 159299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway how does "smart cache" differ from L2?
< 1320588268 962382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wanna write my ioctls for me?
< 1320588272 331725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a technical level I mean
< 1320588295 686143 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "smart cache" is dynamically shared between processor cores and integrated graphics.
< 1320588301 522200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320588324 779290 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not particularly, no; see CCBI's TERM implementation if you're doing similar things
< 1320588331 620615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, why would you even make a library use the alternate screen with NO CHIOCE AT ALL. :/
< 1320588347 506072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, that D code will help me use awful ioctls with hideous structs from Haskell
< 1320588359 436836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can work around it by using only the terminfo interface of ncurses
< 1320588360 306385 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't use ioctl
< 1320588364 567912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, TERM in cfunge does that
< 1320588366 602192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How
< 1320588367 782155 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering stuff like Turbo Boost, where you effectively disable cores, it makes sense to reuse the cache from that core for running cores.
< 1320588368 903240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What do you do then
< 1320588378 505569 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What Vorpal's talking about
< 1320588382 271628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, basically doing what tput(1) does
< 1320588386 827665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; go on
< 1320588398 765756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I put shit on the screen like that :P
< 1320588400 339596 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: man putp
< 1320588413 922726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check TERM.c from cfunge, I forgot the exact details
< 1320588427 622648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uuugh this is ugly.
< 1320588436 548565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, it is
< 1320588438 116013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyawy the coordination between NCRS and TERM is tricky
< 1320588447 781495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend not loading both NCRS and TERM at the same time.
< 1320588476 463493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *should* work for the cases I tested (as in, it doesn't crash), but the results might be somewhat hard to predict
< 1320588484 987407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And hscurses don't bind to it
< 1320588488 292705 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: char *go_xy = tigetstr("cup"); int x = 10, y = 20; putp(tparm(go_xy, y, x)); /* cursor is now at 10,20 */
< 1320588494 671732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: And hscurses don't bind to it
< 1320588502 643518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Least, far as I can tell
< 1320588503 151242 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And?
< 1320588515 137421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you want me to suffer through the FFI for the privilege of using such an awful API?
< 1320588516 280866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1320588519 482673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it ugly
< 1320588521 69040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate my life.
< 1320588524 174311 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It only uses basic types and pointers to opaque structs AFAICT
< 1320588525 837259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :putp(cursor_down);
< 1320588535 612168 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That much FFI is hardly suffering
< 1320588537 568014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cursor_down is defined in the header
< 1320588544 273574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: FFI is always sufferin'
< 1320588547 890769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it is a macro isn't it?
< 1320588552 914994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus
< 1320588553 544843 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your pain threshold is way lower than it should be
< 1320588557 823619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal demonstrates the FFI problem with ncurses
< 1320588560 234353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is a fucking macro
< 1320588574 286332 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nothing you need is a macro
< 1320588575 453427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep cursor_down /usr/include/term.h
< 1320588575 505838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define cursor_down                    CUR Strings[11]
< 1320588577 191341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320588584 851760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How about that
< 1320588590 224947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, this will be painful from anything except C and C++
< 1320588590 581235 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't need that
< 1320588593 463382 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You use tigetstr
< 1320588608 895412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I know a way to work around this: Do a small C module that wraps this horrible macro API, then FFI to it
< 1320588614 541797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might not be too painful
< 1320588617 507946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Are you sure this actually does input
< 1320588641 229596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the term.h interface does input.
< 1320588649 515063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though
< 1320588657 970718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you're both contradicting each other every line.
< 1320588665 960481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320588671 366235 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still don't know what you mean by "does input"
< 1320588679 542315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I presume he means stdin
< 1320588681 181294 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: getchar(3)
< 1320588689 678779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With raw console, duh
< 1320588692 443691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No buffering
< 1320588694 895082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :set input unbuffered and do getchar()?
< 1320588702 471658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now you have two problems!
< 1320588702 618832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320588707 444670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me how to do the former; it will involve ioctl.
< 1320588713 447724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant just told me to use putp to avoid ioctl.
< 1320588720 418740 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to turn off kernel buffering/basic line editing.
< 1320588720 654856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so we come full circle.
< 1320588726 961435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I think it involves setvbuf()
< 1320588733 917824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Right, that's just a hideous pain from anything but C :)
< 1320588746 31009 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just turning off userspace buffering like setvbuf() doesn't help.
< 1320588750 709951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1320588755 424062 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I said "if you're doing similar things", I can't even remember what things TERM has :-P
< 1320588777 131856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM has  CDGHLSU
< 1320588780 572856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/  / /
< 1320588791 830320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not helpful I know)
< 1320588793 352829 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original idea was that in stuff like telnet, the telnet client does the whole line editing, and only complete lines get sent over the network.
< 1320588812 96819 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is enter_ca_mode sufficient, I wonder
< 1320588829 345426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't that do the crazy alt-screen thingy?
< 1320588837 275440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I wish that was actually done so I could get a benefit from all this awfulness
< 1320588842 592341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh line editing lag regularly annoys me
< 1320588846 372849 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the "do this before doing anything else"
< 1320588859 49449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does ccbi TERM do that?
< 1320588863 575585 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes
< 1320588871 569600 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: telnet does that as long as the program invoked does not turn off kernel line editing/buffering.
< 1320588880 182025 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could tunnel telnet over ssh.
< 1320588888 480258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, so does cfunge with some defines.
< 1320588892 725860 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320588896 612216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Hmm, right, I've never used telnet for actual shells
< 1320588897 429146 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't expect tab completion or history or any other fancy stuff to work.
< 1320588900 898863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, that does the alternate screen that fucks with scrollbars
< 1320588912 94829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works without that
< 1320588912 147079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messes with more than just scrollbars
< 1320588914 549607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320588924 877563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fine for screen-oriented UIs
< 1320588925 865831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway:
< 1320588928 361937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my program is streaming, line-based
< 1320588928 596484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef TERM_CAP_CORRECT
< 1320588928 649125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :	putp(enter_ca_mode);
< 1320588928 716460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :	atexit(finalise);
< 1320588928 768850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif
< 1320588946 538188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is usually done
< 1320588952 384381 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have an option for buggy termcaps or something? :-P
< 1320588965 11941 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a line-based program, don't enter alt-screen mode. Easy ;)
< 1320588971 165151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is #defined at the top of the file, so changing it requires patching TERM.c
< 1320589002 527242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think I experimented with and without that though. And it worked fine without it in all tests. I did settle for having it on though, just in case...
< 1320589009 12330 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a library forces you to enter alt-screen mode, fix the library.
< 1320589040 69930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, problem is, you are supposed to use that before any cursor moving magic iirc. According to the documentation
< 1320589089 976623 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was that you don't need cursor moving magic in a line-based program.
< 1320589108 593654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc elliott is doing a progress bar or something
< 1320589113 350035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's why wget goes into alternate screen mode to draw a progress bar
< 1320589118 194808 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the point where you implement your own readline with sensible wrapping, the idea breaks down...
< 1320589133 881202 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, wget does that? Are you sure?
< 1320589134 770400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it does? Why doesn't it mess up with the scrollbar then?
< 1320589135 599417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more than just progress bars here, I update status indicttors too
< 1320589137 824131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Sarcasm :)
< 1320589162 317557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was just giving an example of a line-based program that obviously needs cursor magic
< 1320589185 643059 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :backspace is enough for updating scrollbars.
< 1320589204 231047 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And backspace is not considered "cursor movement".
< 1320589213 685273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, progress bars you mean
< 1320589221 16362 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1320589226 184266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: there's more at work here
< 1320589231 289293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have multiple progress bars on different lines
< 1320589240 833808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like I said, also have to update status indicators in various lines
< 1320589256 531988 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, it is no longer plain line based... Hybrid concepts are not supported. Too bad.
< 1320589280 304299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, I'm not going to give up when the fix is "only" an ioctl away...
< 1320589297 448551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing actually breaks when you use cursor codes before that anyway.
< 1320589314 473313 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :On most terminals I can imagine, doing what you want to do without alt screen mode works.
< 1320589336 420534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, isn't the ioctl for input you said? Rather than output?
< 1320589339 305887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, just means I can't benefit from things like ncurses which force me into alt-screen mode
< 1320589347 436028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I just mean that if I need to roll my own escapes, I need ioctl for input
< 1320589350 591349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to using curses
< 1320589356 354708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of telnet.
< 1320589357 26304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320589357 625916 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320589393 896974 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses must be usable in non-alt-screen mode too.
< 1320589401 1716 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320589413 613108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what happens if you have more progress bar than the height of the terminal? I have seen programs like powertop fuck up when output didn't fit on the screen
< 1320589415 405104 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, GNU readline is based on ncurses. And readline does not enforce alt-screen.
< 1320589421 429719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if they fixed that in more recent versions
< 1320589424 162061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible
< 1320589431 720238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, the standard API definitely does it.
< 1320589446 254472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost positive that telnet can ask terminal dimensions.
< 1320589458 72234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost positive you have no idea what we're talking about.
< 1320589463 234457 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too.
< 1320589467 2152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pretty sure you can cursor-up beyond the displayed terminal height
< 1320589471 427478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than you're talking about telnet and terminal dimensions
< 1320589473 313661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1320589474 268116 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't look at me, I just got here
< 1320589476 126431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really a very big terminal, just with limited viewport
< 1320589477 378699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not telnet
< 1320589484 355513 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay. well then nevermind. :)
< 1320589560 422025 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320589745 888781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which ioctl is it
< 1320589759 182337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCSCTATTR or some nonsense like that.
< 1320589763 523376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just typed random chars that look right.)
< 1320589766 690406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICOSAGET. Something.
< 1320589771 24676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an awful bugger.
< 1320589781 544470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which man page?
< 1320589785 623545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :termios stuff.
< 1320589793 146379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/termios
< 1320589803 268583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has some "lovely" examples.
< 1320589810 545936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, OK that's not a ioctl, but there's an ioctl underneath it.
< 1320589814 437571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't termios deprecated?
< 1320589875 838799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO
< 1320589875 893266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :       tcgetattr(), tcsetattr(), tcsendbreak(), tcdrain(), tcflush(), tcflow(), cfgetispeed(), cfgetospeed(), cfsetispeed(), and cfsetospeed()  are  specified
< 1320589875 955373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :       in POSIX.1-2001.
< 1320589876 8032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :       cfmakeraw() and cfsetspeed() are nonstandard, but available on the BSDs.
< 1320589879 417662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe?
< 1320590102 623241 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :temios-like: TCGETS/TCSETS{,F,W}; termio-like: TCGETA/TCSETA{F,W}
< 1320590119 710901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which is newer.
< 1320590149 930926 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCSETS == TCSANOW, TCSETSF == TCSADRAIN, TCSETSF = TCSAFLUSH
< 1320590157 443227 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's SysV/BSD, not old/new.
< 1320590261 623414 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people claim termios is standard, termio is BSD.
< 1320590296 259849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD user, by any chance? :-)
< 1320590318 882527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The termio interface is now obsolete: POSIX.1-1990 standardized a modified version of this interface, under the name termios."
< 1320590322 553341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :says man termio here
< 1320590360 538318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320590408 703027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would guess twice11 is a BSD user from that
< 1320590412 628088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, /can/ you go above the terminal size with cursor movement?
< 1320590418 938410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's easy enough to avoid.
< 1320590424 308843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it and see?
< 1320590424 772787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes scrolling up ... ugly.
< 1320590427 317049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lazy.
< 1320590433 601927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a few different terminals I guess
< 1320590442 316440 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Linux only.
< 1320590467 420 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes remembering things incorrectly.
< 1320590508 38144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ tput cols | cat -v
< 1320590508 203406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :168
< 1320590508 255829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbing. :/
< 1320590513 898994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reveal your secrets!!!
< 1320590532 345581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace?
< 1320590549 395638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might just look at $COLUMNS :P
< 1320590555 14381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc the shell sets
< 1320590565 233381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, $COLUMNS actually gets set.
< 1320590572 639788 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590579 12095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember that the user might resize the terminal window while your program is running
< 1320590579 975128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to install strace:
< 1320590582 116700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targets (43): strace-4.6-1  ncurses-5.9-2  readline-6.2.001-3  bash-4.2.010-2  gawk-4.0.0-2  m4-1.4.16-2  autoconf-2.68-2  automake-1.11.1-3  bison-2.5-2
< 1320590582 170239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              findutils-4.4.2-4  sed-4.2.1-4  ca-certificates-20111025-2  curl-7.22.0-4  db-5.2.36-2  dialog-1.1_20111020-1  expat-2.0.1-7  flex-2.5.35-5  gdbm-1.8.3-9
< 1320590582 170416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              gettext-0.18.1.1-4  grep-2.9-2  gzip-1.4-4  libldap-2.4.26-5  krb5-1.9.2-1  less-444-2  lib32-libpciaccess-0.12.1-3  libcap-2.22-2  libpcap-1.1.1-4
< 1320590582 170609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              libpipeline-1.2.0-2  libusb-1.0.8-2  linux-firmware-20111101-1  nano-2.2.6-2  patch-2.6.1-3  pciutils-3.1.8-1  popt-1.16-4  pkg-config-0.26-2
< 1320590584 563603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              sqlite3-3.7.9-1  talloc-2.0.7-1  tar-1.26-2  texinfo-4.13a-6  thunar-1.2.3-2  vi-1:050325-2  which-2.20-5  wpa_supplicant-0.7.3-4
< 1320590592 4505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doubtful your own COLUMNS would be upgraded then
< 1320590593 594833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1320590598 53033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, I'll have to roll my own.
< 1320590629 949207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here strace only depends on perl. Guess that could pull in a lot.
< 1320590641 242174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you still on arch? That vi version number looks debianish
< 1320590643 551010 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590643 935552 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320590643 988082 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590653 109033 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace doesn't depend on all that
< 1320590663 970585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is that on arch
< 1320590664 575621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320590672 118572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those are what vi version numbers look like
< 1320590685 634521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you do pacman -Su strace or something?
< 1320590696 356971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Syu
< 1320590704 173528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay that will do system upgrades too
< 1320590706 539302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats remembering to upgrade the system regularly
< 1320590707 987439 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. "update whole system, oh and install strace"
< 1320590712 6197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yep
< 1320590717 659008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pacman -S strace will probably just show strace :P
< 1320590719 423399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's either that or avoid synchronising
< 1320590721 168378 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not reallywquite "how to install strace"
< 1320590725 916521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I might get inconsistent packages
< 1320590731 84956 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ ctrl
< 1320590731 991463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -Syu all the time it is
< 1320590740 661734 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320590766 659894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Guess what tput uses (it's ioctl)
< 1320590790 70262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it might use termios, but if termios is done in glibc it would likely map to ioctl
< 1320590798 73360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, strace shows ioctls, not library calls
< 1320590801 999672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err system calls
< 1320590818 629374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, termios lets you do that?
< 1320590834 400796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm -D /bin/tput
< 1320590836 228564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ioctl
< 1320590840 526542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of termios stuff
< 1320590863 417434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I must face my true problem: termios is butt-ugly.
< 1320590872 10415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is that ncurses stuff rather
< 1320590873 624131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be
< 1320590892 93900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it is term.h stuff
< 1320590896 184208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not termios
< 1320590903 809720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit term.h
< 1320590907 945857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All roads lead to you
< 1320590917 298693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that still doesn't deal with the input issue at all
< 1320590922 713479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you need termios for that
< 1320590928 460358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I don't want to use term.h
< 1320590930 154409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'S ugly
< 1320590933 779449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's get raw, raw, raw
< 1320590935 109963 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590935 385802 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320590935 438163 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590936 42691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1320590936 781911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :termios is about as raw as it gets
< 1320590962 252394 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcgetattr/cfmakeraw/tcsetattr is the usual way to get raw input.
< 1320590963 340788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, term.h provides you will a way to look up the control codes. And yes ncurses headers suck.
< 1320590972 253997 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first and third call ends up in an ioctl.
< 1320590979 732723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :       The tigetflag, tigetnum and tigetstr routines return the value of the capability corresponding to the terminfo capname passed to them, such as xenl.
< 1320590979 850122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't understand is, how can "cols" be a capability, like this and man tput imply?
< 1320590984 962310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, cfmakeraw is a deprecated BSD only thingy
< 1320590987 513075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell
< 1320590987 628573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like they're static configuration values from the terminfo database.
< 1320590994 261391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But obviously columns change.
< 1320591009 711384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, beats me how it handles that
< 1320591012 208515 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask for cols through an ioctl.
< 1320591019 440988 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not all terminals support that.
< 1320591022 756190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't there a signal for resized terminal?
< 1320591025 812661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that some terminals do
< 1320591026 62260 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean terminal driver.
< 1320591027 826116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all
< 1320591030 695552 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGWINCH
< 1320591063 283164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Linux console/xterm/rxvt/gnome-terminal is pretty much all I care about, honestly.
< 1320591063 941914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGWICH  mmmmmmm
< 1320591075 750151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember some terminal emulator that let me set if I wanted to use SIGWINCH or something else
< 1320591083 222223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been konsole
< 1320591084 387742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1320591117 972081 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bad that the primary reason I decided not to use KDE is that I dislike the names of all its default software?
< 1320591123 493913 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1320591128 113138 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320591150 702218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sole reason for me is that KDE 4 is horrible.
< 1320591157 923084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the starts-with-a-K naming scheme just makes me... kringe.
< 1320591174 235413 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't that kool?
< 1320591176 212751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome has quite a few things starting with g iirc
< 1320591182 532982 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320591216 627323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing starts with g nowadays :P
< 1320591225 291846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1320591237 476309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a few of the games iirc?
< 1320591237 532762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but usually it just kind of is attached to the front of the name rather than incorporated into the first word.
< 1320591240 536478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somehow better?
< 1320591259 167448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AisleRiot, Quadrapassel, ...
< 1320591271 86484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gweled
< 1320591296 23071 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gbrainy in games.
< 1320591299 491939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Games
< 1320591299 547453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Very unofficial from the looks of it
< 1320591303 383075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1320591304 378174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not GNOME at all
< 1320591313 295348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's the only example I can think of
< 1320591343 401557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit
< 1320591346 242302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of -- yes
< 1320591347 192401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a game)
< 1320591351 165628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you beat me. :P
< 1320591356 685093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit is a perfectly acceptable name.
< 1320591369 143435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base this on arbitrary aesthetic values.
< 1320591370 757202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gconf-editor
< 1320591381 805583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :g is a helpful indicator here.
< 1320591389 421856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shorter than gnome-conf-editor
< 1320591431 563427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-panel, that doesn't just start with g, it starts with a whole "gnome"
< 1320591441 375969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gconf-editor
< 1320591443 310442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please :P
< 1320591444 337795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if most of the applications in Gnome started with a big capital G as the first word of the name.
< 1320591447 70982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1320591449 715138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also feel the same way about gnome.
< 1320591461 925006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, gnome-panel is actually just Panel I think
< 1320591467 80810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-panel is just the executable
< 1320591467 475787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/word/letter/
< 1320591496 11972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/gnome-sudoku hm
< 1320591626 516517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about gphoto2
< 1320591629 371305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that gnome?
< 1320591632 621327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if Nautilus were called Galaxy, the image viewer were called Gorgeous, Trash was instead Garbage, and there was a music player called Gain.
< 1320591640 775825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm maybe not
< 1320591644 831761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: coooooool
< 1320591652 599791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree.
< 1320591717 669941 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have a Ukubuntu where "Trash" is called "Rubbish"
< 1320591723 490781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only change.
< 1320591749 778380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's called the Rubbish Bin in UK locales
< 1320591755 650129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome has many localisations, you know
< 1320591764 249070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway for portable escape codes to the terminal: term.h. For unbuffered input: termios or possibly some ioctls, not sure how portable the latter would be
< 1320591766 158070 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320591770 688886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between different terminals I mean)
< 1320591780 349813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "portable", do you even believe yourself. show me a terminal that can't do vt100
< 1320591789 461253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh really? those craft gnomes.
< 1320591794 99970 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crafty
< 1320591801 504518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sec
< 1320591812 278571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That works with modern linux and is a progra
< 1320591812 644140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m
< 1320591823 398246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh. I was about to say VT62 :P
< 1320591824 302103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can microsoft run do vt100?
< 1320591840 842173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :run do?
< 1320591841 786214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*run.exe or whatever
< 1320591845 842193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe?
< 1320591848 161397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1320591848 617163 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320591852 892359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely
< 1320591865 142563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <-- Wundoes Youser
< 1320591900 862410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1320591932 804025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I seen someone do terminal on matrix printer with linux 2.6.something
< 1320591932 994480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will let you puzzle it out on your own
< 1320591936 459231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still supported
< 1320591944 226790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not a sane setup though :P
< 1320591947 521575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a terminal :P
< 1320591966 75472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what the input was
< 1320591981 135093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can Cygwin do vt100? I recall seeing vt100-like things in it before.
< 1320591985 432797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it runs through cmd.exe
< 1320591993 160730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used serial console myself a few times on modern linux.
< 1320592008 786375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not a person; anyway does that even count as a tty
< 1320592011 371027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does isatty think
< 1320592022 497831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for serial console? No idea
< 1320592044 6840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it thinks no
< 1320592051 626208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case the package manager will use paper trail output
< 1320592054 119217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than interactive output
< 1320592094 224573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. A more reasonable question would: what about GUI package managers wrapping your package manager. How will you support that (if at all)
< 1320592106 110149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is packagekit, doubt that would fit you
< 1320592109 641566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what libraries are for
< 1320592115 415886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1320592128 965614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries are for books not packages.
< 1320592130 27437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paper trail output isn't gonna print a dot for every minuscule bit of progress :P
< 1320592146 624246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320592172 846588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this for download or for installation too?
< 1320592188 978128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for... package management
< 1320592216 604248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but surely not all bits of package management needs a progress bar.
< 1320592223 945717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only those that take some time
< 1320592225 991142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's totally a thing i implied
< 1320592232 941164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're being perfectly reasonable by stating this as if it's somehow cogent
< 1320592245 337031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad you feel that
< 1320592270 375880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you plan to use it for more than just download, such as compilation and installation?
< 1320592299 930791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, by package manager all this time i've actually meant wget
< 1320592390 350722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget is the great for Porkege Ménagement
< 1320592455 939206 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320593122 760941 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: happy day-in-which-King-James-1-is-still-alive day.
< 1320593129 651908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where we would be without him.
< 1320593614 569426 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320593719 851393 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320594201 871607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    def ioctl_GWINSZ(fd):
< 1320594201 992300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        try:
< 1320594202 44793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            import fcntl, termios, struct, os
< 1320594202 44949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            cr = struct.unpack('hh', fcntl.ioctl(fd, termios.TIOCGWINSZ,
< 1320594202 45055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        '1234'))
< 1320594202 780581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        except:
< 1320594204 828101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            return None
< 1320594206 802908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        return cr
< 1320594208 301096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OH GOODY
< 1320594358 428583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of tempting just to shell out to tput
< 1320594378 806364 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320594383 983687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you can do that with the portable termios api
< 1320594385 818317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not ioctl
< 1320594387 870514 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-37.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320594413 310858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq
< 1320594476 309802 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320595201 644493 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320595576 46484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320595581 480039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fcntl.ioctl?
< 1320595582 368018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1320595596 52528 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fcntl == module name, ioctl == function name.
< 1320595596 676814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that is python
< 1320595597 592764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320595600 167430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew*
< 1320595612 370271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was some weird C with function pointers in structs first
< 1320598141 772903 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320598399 381905 :shareholder!~user@unaffiliated/shareholder JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320598405 342041 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you ever have a function pointer anywhere other than a struct?
< 1320598407 217668 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :}:P
< 1320598466 434695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, in qsort() parameter list for example
< 1320598513 295268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge puts them in dynamically allocated arrays acting as stacks iirc.
< 1320598544 640410 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are qsort's parameters?
< 1320598560 66757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :check qsort(3)
< 1320598859 616086 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320598860 7291 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320598860 59740 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320599873 189834 :shareholder!~user@unaffiliated/shareholder PART #esoteric :"Quitting"
< 1320602195 422877 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320602806 793947 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-13.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320602836 227981 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320603051 469296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320603064 531686 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEFUNGE 93 WITH NUMBERED MACROS
< 1320603070 784521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320603077 101234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ hi
< 1320603079 484849 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320603082 833833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho
< 1320603095 739580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :var "friendship ho"
< 1320603096 397454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this isn't #esoteric-minecraft
< 1320603101 251019 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "friendship ho"
< 1320603102 395460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  friendship ho
< 1320603113 1007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: wat
< 1320603118 690143 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ho
< 1320603123 649536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disney's Snow White
< 1320603128 308718 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarfs who do mining
< 1320603130 850189 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :implying dwarves
< 1320603130 903644 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft
< 1320603132 740437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :implying...
< 1320603138 920705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf fortr--wait what?
< 1320603143 478626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay.
< 1320603150 168898 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1320603171 506350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so Ngevd, but where are we going to find 500 unicycles?
< 1320603182 235879 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have one
< 1320603187 314528 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a dinner to eat
< 1320603192 122106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: CURRY TIEM
< 1320603210 383046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just find 250 bicycles and cut them in half.
< 1320603230 138251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant!
< 1320603442 905703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: happy day-in-which-King-James-1-is-still-alive day.
< 1320603448 151866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ZOMBIE KING
< 1320603884 827266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320603887 420703 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320603910 609909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you eat fast
< 1320603918 159063 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a madras
< 1320603927 144408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not a big eater
< 1320604003 7159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does your size have to do with anything?
< 1320604009 114775 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1320604013 291253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION small eter
< 1320604017 356883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cat
< 1320604157 451583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cat/land fish/
< 1320604266 418070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now lessee, if a cat loves to eat sea kittens...
< 1320604304 277578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of that conversation, I am eating honey right now.
< 1320604308 248382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best vomit ever.
< 1320604452 127623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did it guys
< 1320604452 854279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i foudn
< 1320604455 565675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst subreddit
< 1320604457 85943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaatheismmmmmmmmmm
< 1320604461 298194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's f7u12
< 1320604465 4599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for /r/atheism
< 1320604482 482577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: rejoice with me
< 1320604527 260747 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320604595 112908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/VF98o.png
< 1320604605 471899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is stellar.
< 1320604628 614381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: classic vintage rage comics; http://www.reddit.com/r/classicrage
< 1320604654 846735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satan's in the Philippines
< 1320604676 636650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do you like dst
< 1320604687 34607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not entirely sure I'm making the connection between that picture and stars.
< 1320604697 435042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has its upsides
< 1320604703 963497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst is all bad
< 1320604706 267855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no. no no no. bad.
< 1320604708 998022 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing good about it
< 1320604710 176475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad opinions
< 1320604720 31980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what
< 1320604730 447610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:36 < elliott> this is stellar.
< 1320604737 291032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1320604755 213586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 :> etc
< 1320604890 928505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/7tEqu.jpg
< 1320604892 546846 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Commonwealth of England had a stupid flag
< 1320604899 754721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the worst things ever made by humanity
< 1320604905 19950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact if we showed this to aliens who came down and were like
< 1320604907 653199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :justify your species
< 1320604910 261960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd be so fucked
< 1320604949 741635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what IS this PRAYER..no BURNS! no! burn!"
< 1320604952 282683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--fungot
< 1320604952 762469 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: young john soon afterward receives as a visitor a fnord spaniard, fnord de moncada, who has escaped from fnord fnord dissolved in the absolute.
< 1320604958 387143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  elliott: young john soon afterward receives as a visitor a fnord spaniard, fnord de moncada, who has escaped from fnord fnord dissolved in the absolute.
< 1320604960 134590 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: most horrible of all sights are the little unpainted wooden houses remote from travelled ways, usually squatted upon some damp grassy slope or leaning against some gigantic outcropping of rock. i looked at him i saw that my searching would have to cross the blighted, fnord woods alone to his home on the great horse, and his face and accept his alternate blows and fnord who seeks a proud and fnord, and fnord the actual
< 1320604961 950476 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :709)  elliott: young john soon afterward receives as a visitor a fnord spaniard, fnord de moncada, who has escaped from fnord fnord dissolved in the absolute.
< 1320604990 193650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1320604990 315493 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1320605004 351554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow these reddits images
< 1320605008 865596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this reddits
< 1320605013 779909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320605017 526896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would do this
< 1320605028 210279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/BEaH0.png
< 1320605037 523081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is so beautiful
< 1320605057 543363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part of my brain that should turn to pure blackened hatred when i see things like this
< 1320605062 967205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :got spontaneously reconfigured at some point
< 1320605072 718387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just makes me think of how beautiful life is instead, it's great
< 1320605086 681813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should like read freerepublic daily to keep my happies up
< 1320605136 554179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/b83hr.png
< 1320605139 954330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's...
< 1320605140 637857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1320605191 184413 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1320605337 867980 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had this....reconfigured brai.nnnnn
< 1320605376 16855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the key is i think
< 1320605379 767154 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i am reacting inappropriately as well, but not in such a pleasant manner....
< 1320605384 460173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extreme extrospection (totally a word) whenever you meet anything like this
< 1320605406 989114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just lean back and look at the world and also humanity and i'm like ha ha ha ha hahahahaha
< 1320605413 454774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh new iwc annotation
< 1320605436 917169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about ATOMS
< 1320605441 39580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess im hahahaha too but i don't know how to describe it....im bad at feelings....
< 1320605477 978025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you even like dmm, he's so happy and upbeat.
< 1320605492 726474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is oerjan emo
< 1320605492 999711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43 < elliott> got spontaneously reconfigured at some point
< 1320605497 654968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :puberty?
< 1320605498 510860 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he's like me
< 1320605501 52821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes "emoerjan"
< 1320605507 644726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you emo as well
< 1320605511 173070 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1320605513 747910 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am anti-emo
< 1320605520 421731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngemovd
< 1320605520 550101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1320605522 684872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is emo. -_;;
< 1320605527 338211 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One person showed up to my birthday party
< 1320605534 644226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was all like "who cares?"
< 1320605543 14897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's a universe to explore!"
< 1320605549 425222 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, more cake for me!"
< 1320605566 126416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ51kW684FM
< 1320605566 912460 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320605574 506547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel
< 1320605576 104464 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever
< 1320605577 429322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dephlogisticated air" :D
< 1320605606 107272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that theory
< 1320605908 678871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320605949 483029 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320605949 729343 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320605949 781944 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320606266 540849 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Actually, there is the Gregorian calendar based which is what the heading says and is likely what the author intended, but literally following the instructions in Principia Discordia for the calendar results in it based on the Julian calendar so that on 2100 AD (3266 YOLD) it will diverge, being 1 Chaos 3267 on Jan2, 2101
< 1320606557 464217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: how do you even like dmm, he's so happy and upbeat. <-- funny you should say that, i found the previous (first new style) annotation somewhat grating that way, i didn't even read all of it.  have just opened the new one, we'll see.
< 1320607612 786879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wowflowrs! ! 1 nobdy 0sksi a go
< 1320607620 663800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's cryptic final transmission.
< 1320607647 8658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am anti-emo
< 1320607661 188516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mismisanthropicic, can we fight crime?
< 1320607686 190899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I collide with an emo, we annihilate each-other in a burst of energy
< 1320607712 972827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how you could possibly get energy from an emo.
< 1320607731 141323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, a burst of energy and anti-energy
< 1320607737 425484 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which then collide and form matter
< 1320607815 313137 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's all that matters
< 1320607825 745560 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Phantom_Hoover, yes. We can fight crime.
< 1320607830 832298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meet you in Glasgow?
< 1320607849 700979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you can't fight crime in Glasgow.
< 1320607873 240277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like trying to get rid of the space-time continuum.
< 1320607886 188103 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1320607891 1568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meet you in Newcastle?
< 1320607909 827249 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1320607920 790305 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upon Tyne
< 1320607997 300443 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or New South Wales, your call
< 1320608013 412076 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was replying to oerjan's message at UNIX timestamp 1320562665)
< 1320608135 523910 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many limeys.
< 1320608148 526583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a thought
< 1320608154 873134 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could go Under Lyme?
< 1320608234 755325 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320608286 263426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, GreaseMonkey
< 1320608292 366105 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo
< 1320609515 936499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1320610033 778201 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320610631 278895 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320610744 882795 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320611150 84883 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320611227 750167 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PART :#esoteric
< 1320611820 448325 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320611913 826373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320611989 833791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320613321 139084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headline just seen on the news: [CG :88
< 1320613330 786387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's a typo, rather than some sort of complex smiley
< 1320613347 670462 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CG would be Karkat...
< 1320613349 689647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1320614773 865800 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320614855 102607 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PART :#esoteric
< 1320616318 168339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320616397 538633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for a telephone service, where it is a free feature you can enable and allows the A,B,C,D tones to access several extra commands such as diagnostics, disable call waiting, disable call display, disable toll calls, switch call display protocol, impose time limits, enter red box mode, prevent recipient from using ANI (separately from call display),
< 1320616469 639030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable voice mail, reverse polarity, cut the line for a duration of time, select ground start protocol, disable tone dialing, disable pulse dialing, select a call display mode that tells you whether the last digit to call you was dialed using pulse or tone, etc.
< 1320616500 445581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Act 6 is going to be amazing.
< 1320616525 11684 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone can do that.
< 1320616602 997426 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Some phone operators provide a number which allows you to change your features by calling it
< 1320616635 124107 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a little bit like USSD?
< 1320616657 23775 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, otoko no ko
< 1320616696 362464 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK, but probably not everything I have mentioned. One idea is to have that when receiving diagnostics information, A announces by voice and C for computer receiving data.
< 1320616700 805419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What is USSD?
< 1320616710 678914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320616733 501813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I found it in Wikipedia
< 1320616740 948890 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's a thing where you punch in a series of symbols, like a phone number except with pounds and stars, and it does something.
< 1320616750 953830 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as diagnostics or reversing the polarity.
< 1320616772 413996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it bounce the graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish?
< 1320616788 811115 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but nobody knows the code for that.
< 1320616820 971296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have an idea for a telephone service, where it is a free feature you can enable and allows the A,B,C,D [...] <-- why?
< 1320616832 580055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't out of band metadata better than in-band?
< 1320616875 768572 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The software that processes these codes is more complicated than all of Ubuntu and OS X combined, and we've also lost the source code.
< 1320616916 79031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The reason for in band is to use standard telephones and modems to access it without requring any connection other than standard telephone lines.
< 1320616949 445020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, ubuntu can't be terribly complicated. Just look at how trivial a clean install of windows 7 is. And Ubuntu has a way smaller install size than that! (Nevermind that there are so many more features in the latter, probably just a statistical fluke)
< 1320617036 899411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, isn't land line dying anyway, compared to voip
< 1320617059 598659 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still use landline service.
< 1320617061 636543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a landline because I have ADSL, but most people I know with cable or fibre have switched to voip
< 1320617100 102917 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I meant "Ubuntu and all packages available for it in the official repositories".
< 1320617104 499505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, ah
< 1320617112 645339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, yeah that is /quite/ a bit more then
< 1320617128 50710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Landline service does not require a computer, and the protocol is sufficiently simple that you can build your own telephone with a few spare parts (as long as pulse dialing is not disabled)
< 1320617136 166167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, sigh, if only there was a distro with a repo as extensive as ubuntu but rolling release....
< 1320617175 812920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rollbuntu
< 1320617177 489803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch has two major issues for me: multilib support is crappy. No split debug info. Still. There is work being done on the latter though.
< 1320617208 97340 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the multilib support
< 1320617209 531933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course debian's package building system is a mess
< 1320617275 34091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, badly incomplete
< 1320617286 127699 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so
< 1320617316 661545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing headers for 32-bit, few libraries. I mean there was no OpenMPI library for 32-bit last I checked
< 1320617320 825732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1320617335 606281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 32-bit libraries that exist are there to support a few packages, like zsnes and so on
< 1320617350 34085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from those required by the binary 32-bit packages in the repo: not much
< 1320617384 490462 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough; personally I've yet to need anything that wasn't in the repo
< 1320617432 958153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and if you use arch: valgrind fucks up on cfunge atm. I think it is a missing suppression for gmtime() or some internal function it uses.
< 1320617442 586535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the latest glibc that is
< 1320617450 138873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no errors when running on ubuntu
< 1320617461 612593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10.04 LTS)
< 1320617471 507826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so a bit older glibc)
< 1320617492 19185 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of the BayHac2011 Haskell programs exist?
< 1320617545 722105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also the lack of debug info for glibc means I can't really track down the missing suppression...
< 1320617578 504300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-dbg packages work perfectly on ubuntu
< 1320617905 172459 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320618111 969345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320618719 122198 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320618745 836959 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320618746 376859 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320618746 429959 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320618862 92746 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320618946 644709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you happen to remember the name of that libc elliott was interested in?
< 1320618957 337882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320618959 667686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1320618975 790380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it started with m. Time for a very wide grep of the logs
< 1320618981 766355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl?
< 1320618988 809583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks
< 1320618990 110211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was it
< 1320619408 26945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm based on http://www.etalabs.net/compare_libcs.html it still looks like eglibc is a better bet for most desktop systems. It is only worse than musl in a few cases, but has so much better support for lots of features.
< 1320619442 741032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still worth trying building against
< 1320620788 768531 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a very good libc, if still a work in progress.
< 1320620832 903442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still, missing out on C99 math and so on. :/
< 1320620904 407631 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db401a3.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320621098 754797 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, C99 math is hard to do well.
< 1320621162 59335 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320621308 12968 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320621309 531608 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320621460 201284 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320622247 858426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, C99 math is hard to do well. <-- oh?
< 1320622485 454524 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :tiffnya
< 1320622493 596384 :tiffnya!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :tiffany
< 1320622811 614878 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320622820 671223 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone here help me with my Brainfuck interpreter? I've got most of it down except for loops, which are not so much looped as they are ran once. http://codepad.org/eznPVPyy
< 1320622989 313836 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone?
< 1320623025 152650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1320623077 994522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't assigning the result of jumpPosition.pop() to anything
< 1320623152 27824 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, then.
< 1320623225 211079 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop() is void, though...
< 1320623375 798946 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts, ais523?
< 1320623494 54301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320623533 115936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320623560 861232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, err:                jumpPosition.push(ptr+1);
< 1320623573 495277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, you should run the condition every time surely
< 1320623588 857905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to run the condition when you enter the loop anyway
< 1320623597 846448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you don't seem to do
< 1320623606 776541 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run the condition?  I don't get it,
< 1320623615 171414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, A loop might run zero times.
< 1320623617 466300 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah wait, you mean testing the stack for whether it's empty?
< 1320623622 366945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the current cell if 0
< 1320623625 944559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't ever run
< 1320623639 18315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will stop when at the start of an iteration the current cell is zero
< 1320623652 104943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the loop logic is wrong
< 1320623656 912899 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's the point of the Brainfuck language isn't it?
< 1320623661 512212 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...
< 1320623667 591440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you don't seem to do that currently
< 1320623686 764691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you check if (*ptr) at the end of the loop
< 1320623695 262230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means every loop will run at least once
< 1320623744 560584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, you need code to scan forward to the matching ] without executing
< 1320623755 712129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a loop can be executed zero times
< 1320623777 431468 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see...I can maybe throw another function in there for that.
< 1320623795 422165 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So check for a ], then...hm...
< 1320623798 210674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I would parse it into a tree then exeute the tree.
< 1320623802 307211 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is tougher than I thought.
< 1320623844 749749 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tree?  I think I'm lost now.  I've only been studying C++ for a few months.
< 1320623863 986737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really been a fan of interpreting directly on the source (and before anyone points out I wrote several befunge implementations, let me point out that there is no other sensible way to implement it in that case!)
< 1320623890 566689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, ask ais523. I'm not good at explaining.
< 1320623935 311472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm about to go home
< 1320623935 545557 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna write a BF IDE that can both compile and interpret.
< 1320623953 957048 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting it together bit by bit by bit.
< 1320623982 966060 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thanks anyway.
< 1320624258 972433 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320624886 187408 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320625187 234089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the game to low score. * In boss levels, you have to catch the apples/bombs/whatever to throw at them. Now, when you catch the object, you earn points. Which means, it is a good idea not to miss! (Becuase of low score game! It doesn't work at all with high score game)
< 1320625234 437004 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is:  gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0phlog*c_game.game-design-i
< 1320625414 163879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320625517 545204 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320625591 226821 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1320625610 130304 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320625631 390483 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1320625634 197430 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone here help me with my Brainfuck interpreter? I've got most of it down except for loops, which are not so much looped as they are ran once. http://codepad.org/eznPVPyy
< 1320625805 316345 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320625977 427043 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly sure what you're doing, but it looks like instead of jumping back to the position in the file where you were, you're setting the character value to the character at that position, and then overwriting it anyway
< 1320625994 591936 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest not interpreting as you read the file, for one
< 1320626005 280884 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not using c++, but that's even further beside the point
< 1320626122 241536 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...let me look into that.
< 1320626133 66535 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this interpreter is meant to be a learning exercise for me.
< 1320626147 431059 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you suggest not interpreting as I read the file, then what should I do instead?
< 1320626183 77191 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer quickly, I'm at my bus stop.]
< 1320626188 674224 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could parse it in some way.  the easiest thing to do would be to store the contents in an array or something.
< 1320626200 408370 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a string?
< 1320626201 228443 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could do some more structured thing
< 1320626206 34195 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1320626219 863008 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :structures for loops etc.
< 1320626224 526294 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to use stringstream, so putting the program in a string would be easy...
< 1320626232 778521 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Structures for loops.  Don't follow, sorry
< 1320626235 994240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhh
< 1320626249 644191 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what an abstract syntax tree is? it would be good if you could parse to one of those
< 1320626251 906789 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm fairly new to C++)
< 1320626254 465884 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, sorry.
< 1320626261 468454 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta go!
< 1320626266 439878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't a c++ matter; it's a programming language implementation matter
< 1320626267 849674 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, bye
< 1320626302 980742 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're still around, I'd suggest learning some compiler theory or whatever it's called
< 1320626315 996899 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use your brainfuck interpreter as an exercise
< 1320626379 252672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, doubtful he know what an AST is. I said "tree" before and that lost him.-
< 1320626381 639247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-//
< 1320626383 693692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eh...
< 1320626395 568647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320626442 998113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then learning some data structures or whatever first would also be a good idea.  if he's new enough we might be able to drag him to a better language too?? who knows.  is anyone here experienced with this
< 1320626462 110233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at pedagogics
< 1320626467 592529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to sleep
< 1320626469 352353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1320626518 138975 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@107.54.28.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320626907 221230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data structures are useful for learning how to structure data I've found.
< 1320626944 734238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wait, AST for a brainfuck program?
< 1320626946 169750 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh......
< 1320626950 366374 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes!!!!
< 1320626950 551068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's called a linked list.
< 1320626956 769413 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh
< 1320626959 38229 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure
< 1320626963 808201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1320626965 400684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess for the loops actually...
< 1320626968 49084 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320626968 159405 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would not be a bad idea.
< 1320626973 5641 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for the looops
< 1320626979 300783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would just use a stack. which is... equivalent
< 1320626981 24878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, okay.
< 1320626995 900427 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft, stacks are for uncool people
< 1320627003 521375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stacks are the best data structure.
< 1320627110 245961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good way to do things is compile the brainfuck to C (really easy) and JIT it up (yes!!!)
< 1320627191 570713 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really easy because you don't have to worry about structure; the C parsing handles all of that
< 1320627224 946962 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :serialize the AST as JSON and offload it to a brainfuck server that converts the JSON to a C# structure which is then used to JIT to Python that outputs Perl which is then compressed and sent back to the client.
< 1320627271 866803 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good but that requires getting an ast
< 1320627283 242897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for brainfuck, I mean
< 1320627290 514946 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumign that's what you meant
< 1320627539 813053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1320627570 385336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the server uses ASP.NET to generate the XHTML response
< 1320627574 437423 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is
< 1320627589 319403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single script tag whose javascript outputs the Perl
< 1320627982 776178 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Alissy
< 1320627996 295944 :Alissy!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Alissy_
< 1320628023 205579 :Alissy_!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Kallisti
< 1320628026 835989 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet
< 1320629357 636805 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-13.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: fried brain, anyone?
< 1320630838 164940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320632101 120589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a Prelude.Golf module for Haskell.
< 1320632172 848021 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It includes many instances which do not follow the laws at all.
< 1320632262 101629 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to include a regular expression parser in  instance IsString (String -> [String])
< 1320632426 449479 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@ool-457b5c3a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320632483 875850 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@ool-457b5c3a.dyn.optonline.net PART :#esoteric
< 1320632505 929111 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I meant  instance IsString (String -> [[String]])
< 1320632799 198503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think this is a beautiful addition to the language.
< 1320632849 764061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It is designed for use with code golf. But a regular expression parser would still be a good idea in general, I think.
< 1320634842 47138 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott (not online; or anyone else who remembers): What was that Cygwin installer that doesn't suck like the Cygwin setup.exe?
< 1320635756 829314 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't recall, but I can guess it's called tar.
< 1320635923 44732 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src IsString
< 1320635923 281017 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My pet ferret can type better than you!
< 1320638120 409727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: class IsString t where { fromString :: String -> t; }
< 1320638129 628247 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is used with OverloadedStrings extension
< 1320638615 327443 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320640279 721460 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1320640398 189490 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320642525 226539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320643423 890193 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320645817 230983 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320646271 512149 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320646471 841540 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad, Wikipedia does not have article about "Yomi (card game)"
< 1320646527 678531 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBook readers are not at all about "green". Nor are they about convenience.
< 1320646878 950915 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ebook readers may have some of those properties. But, to be sure, the primary draw for publishers is taking away niceties that real books have, like actual ownership.
< 1320647006 932054 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future, authors will be able to kill off characters they didnt like long after the book was published
< 1320647012 522163 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1320647030 384500 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :people might actually pay more for a book that constantly changes...
< 1320647051 659792 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :George Lucas is a pioneer in the field.
< 1320647106 158192 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. like that time he edited dinosaur pictures into all my masturbation memories. all my special memories are special editions!
< 1320647162 147280 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a related note, three new smbcs tonight
< 1320647240 327828 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For more notes about ebook readers not about "green", these are comments some people have posted about it:   "tax on books, amazon censorship"   "Why would I want 600 books to read during a week's holiday, a glorified calculator to lug around, a power supply, a continental adaptor and an air of superiority, when I can select one piddlin' book to pack for my ultimate "travel light" experience"
< 1320647310 953588 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Three*?
< 1320647350 465037 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :paper books are better for the environment. you dont have to keep putting energy in them and they are completely biodegradable
< 1320647532 333976 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes, that too.
< 1320647832 907485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still don't like to waste paper; I avoid wasting paper by reusing the paper that someone has thrown into the recycling for writing a note by hand, reducing the margins/font size when printing by computer, using double-sided, etc
< 1320647877 846461 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320647952 908299 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even reducing margins or font sizes a little bit can reduce the number of pages of a book.
< 1320648734 46541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a traditional point is slightly smaller than a DTP point (in TeX, DTP points are called "big points").
< 1320650968 427290 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-13.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320652025 44408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320652140 346259 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320652140 811517 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320652140 863704 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320656716 395549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1320657959 804040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a chess variant called "Three Universes Chess" where you need three colors of ink to write the move notations.
< 1320658422 971152 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name (Black) comes near first of alphabetical order; and that is actually the reason why my father did that!!
< 1320658426 905730 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1320659955 755535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320660537 572608 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-13.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: i hear you
< 1320660805 702719 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320661401 739407 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320661514 68025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1320661515 293862 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1320661562 188230 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
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< 1320662470 754274 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let morse_table=M.fromList[('a',".-"),('b',"-..."),('c',"-.-."),('d',"-.."),('e',"."),('f',"..-."),('g',"--."),('h',"...."),('i',".."),('j',".---"),('k',"-.-"),('l',".-.."),('m',"--"),('n',"-."),('o',"---"),('p',".--."),('q',"--.-"),('r',".-."),('s',"..."),('t',"-"),('u',"..-"),('v',"...-"),('w',".--"),('x',"-..-"),('y',"-.--"),('z',"--..")]
< 1320662471 732160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1320662501 261355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let morse = unwords . concatMap (maybeToList.(`M.lookup` m).toLower)
< 1320662501 847842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :8:53:
< 1320662502 80049 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Couldn't match expected type `M.Map k String'
< 1320662502 132580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :           ...
< 1320662515 965090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let morse = unwords . concatMap (maybeToList.(`M.lookup` morse_table).toLower)
< 1320662516 787797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1320662525 930255 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> morse "Hello, World!"
< 1320662527 294934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ".... . .-.. .-.. --- .-- --- .-. .-.. -.."
< 1320662618 473847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen people "transliterate" morse by using / for the (longer) interword gaps.
< 1320662705 468346 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So you could consider having a (' ', "/") in there.)
< 1320662806 720073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think space conveys spaces effectively. >_>
< 1320662932 991829 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're not differentiating between the gaps between letters and gaps between words there.
< 1320662941 47597 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which have a different length.
< 1320663065 825689 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From ".... . .-.. .-.. --- .-- --- .-. .-.. -.." it's impossible to say whether you were saying "Hello, World!" or "Hell, ow... or ld?"
< 1320663209 873381 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a three-unit -- dash-length -- gap between letters, but a seven-unit gap between words.)
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< 1320663890 301202 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
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< 1320675627 322257 :derrik_!~xix@194.150.65.75 QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting…
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< 1320676034 872243 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320676272 625782 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320677891 620509 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320677913 529532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320677935 637937 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320678735 593469 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320678770 562598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320678969 472324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  No you can't fight crime in Glasgow.   It's like trying to get rid of the space-time continuum.
< 1320678975 504795 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :710)  No you can't fight crime in Glasgow.   It's like trying to get rid of the space-time continuum.
< 1320679094 220983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:06:17:  arch has two major issues for me: multilib support is crappy. No split debug info. Still. There is work being done on the latter though.
< 1320679109 715866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't Arch's libs include the debug info
< 1320679145 961370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:06:48:  What's wrong with the multilib support
< 1320679146 193110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's an ugly special-case hack solution and only covers a small percentage of all the library packages in the repo?
< 1320679192 277524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11:32:  Do any of the BayHac2011 Haskell programs exist?
< 1320679196 644657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're all fake
< 1320679223 662426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:28:  hm based on http://www.etalabs.net/compare_libcs.html it still looks like eglibc is a better bet for most desktop systems. It is only worse than musl in a few cases, but has so much better support for lots of features.
< 1320679244 324053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal Nobody uses any of the stuff musl doesn't have except for C++ crap
< 1320679244 605268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1320679310 746364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal Once it works with C++ and has configurable locale support it'll work with the vast majority of programs (it has locale support, just not configurable locales yet)
< 1320679310 865902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1320679414 454360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:56:38:  personally I would parse it into a tree then exeute the tree.
< 1320679421 590352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preparsing is probably slower for BF
< 1320679443 172331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to load all the code in first though of course
< 1320679509 526291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:42:  elliott (not online; or anyone else who remembers): What was that Cygwin installer that doesn't suck like the Cygwin setup.exe?
< 1320679514 521714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't recall, try `pastelogs
< 1320679523 734821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suggest using a non-Cygwin solution :P
< 1320679720 956214 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing I just discovered and am worried at: the internals of Sun's implementations for listeners work by using an Object[], which stores, alternately, Class objects representing what type the listeners were supposed to have when they were added (e.g. ActionListener.class), and the listeners themselves
< 1320679740 409547 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just making a mockery of the type system, really
< 1320679756 341625 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, they /should/ have created an class ListenerWithClass, and made an array of those
< 1320679808 151302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320679817 86130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: java's typesystem makes a mockery of itself
< 1320679822 499322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: at least ever since generics
< 1320679840 118882 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generics impl isn't blatantly stupid, though
< 1320679847 556837 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has many faults, but it's not indefensible
< 1320679878 323001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "what are covariance and contravariance" --Java's generics system
< 1320679902 846799 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it, umm, sort-of handles those
< 1320679906 784146 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it has syntax to do so
< 1320679914 272800 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collection
< 1320679917 77434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: which is why you can cast a list of cats to a list of animals and then add an element?
< 1320679920 22271 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collection
< 1320679931 632324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/without/ any unsafe casts?
< 1320679936 159338 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't enforce it across casts
< 1320679955 428921 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably it should; I don't think it trusts its developers to declare the variances correctly so it ignores them
< 1320679966 923074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I think it actually /runtime errors/ when you add that element
< 1320679968 715693 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least it has syntactic support for them!
< 1320679979 262747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I'm not talking about anything with ?s
< 1320679982 615545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about a plain List
< 1320679991 782785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass it, without casting, to a method expecting List
< 1320679998 710624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that method can, as it should rightfully be able to, add a tortoise to it
< 1320680005 554794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java's type system is completely broken
< 1320680142 4989 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320680367 150291 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320680544 162941 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not as broken as, say, Dart's
< 1320680566 359216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's wrong with Dart's, I thought it was basically Java's
< 1320680568 827589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1320680572 544776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's additionally wrong
< 1320680600 564705 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's checked only at runtime
< 1320680612 987973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's an implementation detail
< 1320680624 278492 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't, it's detectable from within code
< 1320680638 198531 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you can pass objects round as variants a bunch, and then eventually use them
< 1320680649 293350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: only if that's defined behaviour
< 1320680649 754297 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that's unsafe a small percentage of the time based on an RNG
< 1320680657 587717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me where the language is defined to be runtime-checked?
< 1320680661 43051 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is; Dart's typing is explicitly optional
< 1320680668 111764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, alright then
< 1320680717 609256 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your opinion on instanceof (the operator)?
< 1320680729 578605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaks parametricity
< 1320680746 626150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly an unhelpful statement as iirc you didn't know what that was last time i mentioned it :P
< 1320680818 611573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so, "I don't like it"
< 1320680823 296278 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good with words that are the same as other words except for the endings
< 1320680835 498820 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out if it's inherently broken, and suspect it is, but am unsure why
< 1320680919 998251 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I'm busy pondering whether I should try to translate Anarchy to OCaml more or less directly, or try to be cleverer
< 1320680932 70769 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about Anarchy is that it isn't pure, but doesn't seem fully impure either
< 1320680938 390322 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm having trouble trying to work out what exactly it is
< 1320680939 212637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's broken because
< 1320680943 149056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :id :: a -> a
< 1320680969 952198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't necessarily _|_, the identity function, or const _|_, or `seq` _|_
< 1320680976 982834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bottoms sure do mess with a language)
< 1320681004 90710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously though, it completely breaks parametricity, and that's all you need to know to realise it's completely broken
< 1320681018 204952 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that reminds me of how awkward it is to write an infinite loop in Anarchy
< 1320681025 303121 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only do it by creating a data structure while you're iterating over it, in such a way that the iteration never finishes
< 1320681085 782332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait
< 1320681090 455658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seq` _|_ is just const _|_
< 1320681091 71213 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320681092 620758 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: seq`: not found
< 1320681093 354157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that simplifies things
< 1320681110 756446 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that probably means that Anarchy always terminates on a real computer, as it'd run out of memory if an infinite loop ran long enough
< 1320681133 597588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not if you have GC
< 1320681141 709940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can iterate through [0..] in constant space
< 1320681156 192408 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right; but the structure so far, AFAICT, would always be referenced
< 1320681173 145078 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, although a replacement of _ would probably be optimized out to not remember the original
< 1320681230 544921 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, if I write what would be "a = f(List.tl (a@[1]))" in OCaml, the compiler should be sensible enough to discard the old value of a meanwhile)
< 1320681252 436512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable references generally don't reference values they're not currently set to
< 1320681275 608841 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this isn't a :=, just an =
< 1320681294 338886 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inventing a new variable called a, driving the old one out of scope in the process
< 1320681316 492747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, let as opposed to letrec + shadowing
< 1320681329 504963 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much
< 1320681332 280942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me be the first to say, ew
< 1320681337 500141 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :letrec gets involved eventually, which is where the loop comes from
< 1320681354 411205 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're ew-ing at the wrong thing, there
< 1320681359 565945 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I was trying to come up with an analogy
< 1320681362 454739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but I bet you couldn't letrec a = f(List.tl (a@[1])) :-)
< 1320681386 375340 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't you mean letrec f a = f(List.tl (a@[1]))?
< 1320681396 535776 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm trying to figure out what that does mentally atm
< 1320681403 392992 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just an infinite loop
< 1320681406 636485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: nope, I don't
< 1320681410 195472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the point :)
< 1320681421 948034 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320681429 456535 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1320681456 229774 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, is it usual to write mutual recursions in OCaml that span many pages?
< 1320681471 249572 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels a bit weird having to go and...and...and in order to keep the mutual recursion going
< 1320681479 579490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: actually, I'm not sure my letrec a would work, assuming @[n] is an array access operator
< 1320681488 537460 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is list append
< 1320681490 233492 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ++ in Haskell
< 1320681490 709054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays are generally not lazy in their structure...
< 1320681494 645510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, that'd work fine then
< 1320681503 568194 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :array access is .(n)
< 1320681506 52687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language which supported it, I mean
< 1320681573 2163 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320681573 939094 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t \a f -> f(tail ((a+f)++[1]))
< 1320681574 682328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `:'
< 1320681577 621429 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a f -> f(tail ((a+f)++[1]))
< 1320681578 484786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match expected type `[t1] -> t'
< 1320681578 602990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :           against inferred type `[t1]'
< 1320681578 727155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the expression: f (tail ((a + f) ++ [1]))
< 1320681588 225203 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a f -> f(tail ((a f)++[1]))
< 1320681589 114462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. (Num t) => (([t] -> t1) -> [t]) -> ([t] -> t1) -> t1
< 1320681592 829784 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant
< 1320681605 829798 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced it's a /useful/ expression, though ;)
< 1320681616 162460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's definitely wrong
< 1320681617 656338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a f)?
< 1320681630 598852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320681631 448557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr [t], Num t) => [t]
< 1320681635 874672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let a = ?f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320681636 867096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t, ?f::[t] -> [t]) => [t]
< 1320681649 12580 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320681660 310281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = (0:); a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320681663 998979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320681669 749724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320681676 704917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320681683 284983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f xs = 0 : 2 : xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320681684 785630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,...
< 1320681688 557961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: useful!
< 1320681721 639178 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was parametrizing a on f
< 1320681725 404275 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't know what f was
< 1320681739 224903 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, hmm, is there any way to make the 1 come up at all?
< 1320681744 11072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it was definitely wrong, sorry
< 1320681749 204676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a f) was completely wrong
< 1320681754 983909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a doesn't even end up a list there
< 1320681759 756798 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but (a f) does
< 1320681762 703469 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was defining (a f)
< 1320681767 623241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you weren't
< 1320681767 860842 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a
< 1320681772 782125 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be what I called a earlier
< 1320681775 725637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320681778 960358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should learn to use fix...
< 1320681799 38966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and, hmm, is there any way to make the 1 come up at all?
< 1320681800 124357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly
< 1320681805 53610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f xs = 0 : 2 : init xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320681808 817610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320681817 306090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = const [1]; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320681818 722047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1]
< 1320681819 817881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: there we go
< 1320681825 426334 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the same [1]
< 1320681832 451458 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the one in the definition of a
< 1320681846 838346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the trick is to make a a finite list
< 1320681864 362985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite hard
< 1320681873 254318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs to have a certain number of elements added by f
< 1320681879 9428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f is fixed
< 1320681919 519720 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Haskell's equivalent of OCaml's "match", and the syntax?
< 1320681923 250667 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Haskell is really rusty
< 1320681935 621090 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know how to do it with a sequence of definitions, but not in a let)
< 1320681954 2924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320681965 500577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: let Just x = y
< 1320681970 154225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the equivalent of match is case
< 1320681978 140840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, was your Haskell /ever/ not rusty? :P
< 1320681987 218072 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's rustier than other times
< 1320682015 401028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s|/ever/ not|ever /not|
< 1320682016 411915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1320682020 416395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s|/not|/not/|
< 1320682036 302624 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f xs = case xs of _:_:_ -> [0] : _ -> xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320682037 45490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `->'
< 1320682051 703509 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f xs = case xs of _:_:_ = [0] | _ = xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320682052 405489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `='
< 1320682063 845086 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, can you fix my syntax?
< 1320682065 728576 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it works anyway
< 1320682067 844612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, give me a minute
< 1320682083 720267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was trying to think of a way to stop people using a piece of software posted on reddit without having to respond to its author/submitter
< 1320682088 861585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I realised that's what downvotes are for!
< 1320682106 295987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f xs = case xs of _:_:_ -> [0]; _ -> xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320682107 138665 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `='
< 1320682111 484103 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not certain I've downvoted anything ever
< 1320682113 371108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf?
< 1320682125 323914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wait, why are you even using case there?
< 1320682126 926349 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a weird place for the parse error
< 1320682128 149145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use pattern matching
< 1320682136 794180 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: giving two different definitions for f?
< 1320682138 857791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (_:_:_) = [0]; f _ = xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320682139 679159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `xs'
< 1320682143 912699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, giving two clauses for f
< 1320682148 233648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (_:_:_) = [0]; f xs = xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320682149 739567 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (_:_:_) = [0]; f xs = xs; a = f (tail (a ++ [1])) in a
< 1320682151 948781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320682153 195440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that'll fail
< 1320682153 549809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320682157 634692 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320682158 355024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because f pattern-matches on it before adding anything to it
< 1320682295 41451 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why does the terminal here need an explicit kill -WINCH $$ in order to wrap properly after resizing it?
< 1320682313 312593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ssh?
< 1320682316 700597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar?
< 1320682653 381260 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :local
< 1320682662 38240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: which terminal?
< 1320682677 886357 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-terminal on Scientific Linux
< 1320682699 753059 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not sending bash SIGWINCH properly, for whatever reason
< 1320682730 963070 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1320682737 564567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first question, why are you us-
< 1320682739 891671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320682811 284600 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not a huge fan of Cygwin, but I must admit it made it super-easy to turn Windows into an SSH-able server that only very slightly has the bitter taste of Windows.
< 1320682846 338159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The POSIX subsystem is sooo much nicer and has none of the bitter taste of Windows at all, but unfortunately they're dropping support in Windows 8
< 1320682864 745952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And admittedly only Gentoo offer a viable distribution for it... but it's really polished :P
< 1320682886 704662 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sux2b Gentoo, since it'll vanish in Windows 8 :P
< 1320682941 548081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure Windows 8 will get much adoption from the kind of people who use the POSIX subsystem
< 1320683025 653429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320683035 306478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: first question, why are you using Scientific Linux :P
< 1320683041 198622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not through choice
< 1320683051 507066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the Linux distro installed in the computer labs where we do marking
< 1320683118 632847 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Soooooooo in other words, Cygwin is it.
< 1320683120 678479 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it.
< 1320683135 227842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd just use the Gentoo installer *shrugs*
< 1320683144 778756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: One advantage is that the resulting environment is thousands of times faster than Cygwin :P
< 1320683150 158235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientific Linux reminds me of the Scientific People in The Stars My Destination.
< 1320683164 508051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also for all the things I don't like about Emerge, being worse than Cygwin's installer isn't one of them :P
< 1320683226 131496 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s hard to argue with that ... and it's a good environment for compiling things w/ MingW?
< 1320683233 326584 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it comes with an SSH server?
< 1320683241 186604 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That works)
< 1320683276 128517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, it can run Windows programs, but there's not as much integration as Cygwin; I'm pretty sure you could get Makefiles working; and I'm pretty sure it does, but you could just install OpenSSH from the repos if not
< 1320683287 5354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/prefix/x86-interix/current/, FWIW, since it's impossible to find
< 1320683289 803244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PDF is very helpful
< 1320683320 296616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The installer installs the subsystem etc. for you; it's a pretty big iso, but *shrug*
< 1320683324 775996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it does SSH
< 1320683327 732777 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1320683333 861063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1 SSH Daemon
< 1320683334 101809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo Prex
< 1320683334 154648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes with an SSH daemon, which automatically starts at boot
< 1320683334 154832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time. If you don't want the SSH daemon to start automatically, remove the les
< 1320683334 154943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/rc2.d/S32sshd and /etc/rc2.d/K68sshd.
< 1320683334 722210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To manually start the SSH
< 1320683336 341208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :daemon, run /etc/init.d/sshd start.
< 1320683338 606530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, pro copying
< 1320683372 341511 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320683392 45118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tradeoff is pretty much: POSIX subsystem: Actually feels like proper UNIX, ten times faster, toolchain isn't godawful; Cygwin: Bit better integration for running Windows stuff with it, not as large a download
< 1320683399 35310 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320683431 79098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the current Release, an experimental build of XFCE4 is included with the
< 1320683431 314738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVD image."
< 1320683436 183359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess that explains why it's 3 gigs :P
< 1320683442 925138 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut
< 1320683470 518700 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I really need "integration for running Windows stuff with it", I really just use the environment as a shell for building things with MingW.
< 1320683487 689114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I didn't say it can't run Windows stuff.
< 1320683492 945026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying there's no cygpath or anything.
< 1320683541 611455 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts the download.
< 1320683546 141000 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed is important :P
< 1320683546 508291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could install a MinGW cross-compiler from inside it :P ... but seriously, it will probably run MinGW just fine.
< 1320683573 527433 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a cross-compiler is fine, even preferable, the question is just when I make foo.exe, can I run that and have its output go to the right place.
< 1320683578 705588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, the main advantage is that ./configure doesn't take minutes to run.
< 1320683591 806539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it does sometimes!
< 1320683594 402403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the fork() is implemented at the NT layer, not on top of Win32 :P
< 1320683605 150736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you have any idea what the context is...?
< 1320683609 355087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're talking about optimisations to make configure run faster
< 1320683609 473202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure /always/ takes minutes on Cygwin
< 1320683613 280708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320683613 911603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the general speed of configure itself
< 1320683619 889956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not what we are talking about at all.
< 1320683624 450898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say that configure always takes minutes on cygwin as an example
< 1320683628 405164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I noticed it was the context
< 1320683629 386942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320683635 671383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're talking about making configure run faster on Windows
< 1320683638 718868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by not using cygwin
< 1320683650 114097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm naming a reason the POSIX subsystem is much nicer :P
< 1320683696 64788 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320683698 350981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should see the "stock" POSIX subsystem tools, the ones Microsoft ships... they're completely awful
< 1320683705 666595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It uses some ancient version of ksh
< 1320683719 164890 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Interix has an efficient fork?
< 1320683726 45185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: More efficient than Cygwin's
< 1320683740 498564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think NT can perfectly support a fork()y process model, just Win32 can't
< 1320683756 644291 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not
< 1320683764 140351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it doesn't offer fork()
< 1320683772 752754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin just spawns the process and fucks around to make it jmp to the right place
< 1320683777 448258 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly, why doesn't it
< 1320683781 337663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the process/a new process running the same stuff/
< 1320683784 191407 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Windows.
< 1320683786 418480 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can be done well in Interix
< 1320683786 926689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because Microsoft don't care about fork()?
< 1320683790 42150 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firk ding blast
< 1320683794 570490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firk ding blast
< 1320683802 882563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What?)
< 1320683830 556781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1320683833 719747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That took ages to parse :P
< 1320683850 729718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But yeah, Windows has been all about the threads since approximately forever.
< 1320683858 117302 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware of that
< 1320683871 699405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, Win32 was basically /ported/ to NT
< 1320683883 183721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So whatever limitations its process model has will exist in the NT port too
< 1320683898 503870 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's true I suppose
< 1320683973 665800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean, obviously the bits that NT replaces might make things more flexible, but I doubt the actual process model changed much beyond getting more layers, because WIn32's API is based around it
< 1320684011 920672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OR, efficient COW fork() would be totally possible for Microsoft to offer, and they just don't care. It might even be a lock-in thing to stop people writing overly-portable programs.
< 1320684110 744115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Man, why isn't all open source documentation this good...
< 1320684116 938176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading the Gentoo Prefix/Win32 PDF :P)
< 1320684122 357007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of people like me.
< 1320684123 790396 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why.
< 1320684159 935848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1320684453 499781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, ISTR that the subsystem in Vista onwards is better than the one in XP, but I used Gentoo Prefix fine on XP so YMMV
< 1320684961 487234 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320685113 772864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320685671 647875 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320686223 692762 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: say, is hackiki.org supposed to be broken?
< 1320686417 733210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First release of Kansas Lava (ittc.ku.edu)
< 1320686418 82469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT MORE OF THEM
< 1320686827 348065 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU
< 1320686863 846809 :shachaf_!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 NICK :shachaf
< 1320686871 58443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was into Kansas Lava before it was cool.
< 1320686899 149692 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls -l bin/su
< 1320686899 302438 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 root root 33112 Dec  6  2009 bin/su dafuq
< 1320686922 744464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the 'dafuq' mean?
< 1320686923 125203 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did hackiki get pwned?
< 1320686986 574417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hahahahahahahaahaha
< 1320686987 50962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should never have let newsham stay.
< 1320687064 624180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So what's in bin/su
< 1320687083 209132 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idonno, but its modes are wrong and I don't think I have a canonical to compare it against.
< 1320687095 76233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Surely you can just get a canonical one from Debian
< 1320687101 610642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd check logfiles :P
< 1320687103 297762 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh duh :P
< 1320687135 434527 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the audit tables!
< 1320687273 979627 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not pwned, just the wrong modes.
< 1320687274 537759 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf.
< 1320687286 709315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They pwned HackEgo JUST to fuck with the modes.
< 1320687300 475604 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls -l bin | grep -v '^...x'
< 1320687300 597102 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 4420
< 1320687300 649489 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 root root  66152 Apr 29  2008 mount
< 1320687300 649652 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 root root  33528 Jul 25  2010 ping
< 1320687300 649758 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 root root  28944 Jul 25  2010 ping6
< 1320687300 976889 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 root root  33112 Dec  6  2009 su
< 1320687301 931785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But srsly, if things are wrong then it could have just been mode-changed as part of a greater pwnering :P
< 1320687302 973013 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 root root  46040 Apr 29  2008 umount
< 1320687305 218576 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Hackiki
< 1320687308 315220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeaaaaaaah.
< 1320687310 948218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Whenever Turing-complete?
< 1320687324 654787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I think so
< 1320687330 142953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically emulate serial execution
< 1320687337 302339 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are HackEgo and Hackiki connected?
< 1320687341 694353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means nothing to me
< 1320687356 346486 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[BDarn this connection that makes me ask questions thirty seconds after they've been answered.
< 1320687405 535422 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does irssi even *suspect* that I've typed in an escape character followed by [B?
< 1320687436 336096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : How does irssi even *suspect* that I've typed in an escape character followed by [B?
< 1320687438 283201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: cursor chars
< 1320687442 184466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the connection is too laggy
< 1320687447 820431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the timeout happened before the [ came in after the esc
< 1320687469 186759 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the esc came in and then it was a long time before the [ came in?
< 1320687502 512777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Where a long term means more than like 50 ms
< 1320687506 512011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/term/time/
< 1320687533 325260 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely if I press the escape key, wait a moment, and type [B, the same thing out to happen.
< 1320687539 652341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320687561 936994 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't.
< 1320687567 964478 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/out/ought/
< 1320687596 205211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1320687611 799997 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps my terminal is holding the escape character in escrow before sending it out.
< 1320687647 736409 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logging is insufficient to figure out how this happened :P
< 1320687683 559752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm so glad I never used Hackiki right now :P
< 1320687691 489889 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nothing is lost *shrugs*
< 1320687930 464038 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whelp.  I now have a database.  I'm so proud.
< 1320687960 668901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLOLOLDISCOVERY
< 1320687964 276244 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fdupes effs up modes.
< 1320687974 664320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@h214n3c1o291.bredband.skanova.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320687975 581179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@h214n3c1o291.bredband.skanova.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1320687975 638272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320687986 822475 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has three tables in it, each with one row!  Granted, two of the tables have only dummy data in them...
< 1320688036 748368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Enjoy your pain
< 1320688042 903862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nice
< 1320688047 215409 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the pain of... having a database?
< 1320688053 56705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The pain of using one
< 1320688056 177635 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1320688081 42180 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the pain of using a SQL database compare to the pain of using Perl?
< 1320688195 231293 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD that's lame.
< 1320688197 993145 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMNED FDUPES
< 1320688221 336356 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I wish I could swear like you.
< 1320688240 433897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tswett lacks the ability to speak
< 1320688261 200637 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tragic, really.
< 1320688275 689091 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohwell, luckily I have backups of everything so this won't take TOO long to fix I hope.
< 1320688293 368715 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320688295 102226 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :}:(
< 1320688364 293563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320688385 898831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor discovers not to run untrusted code on / :P
< 1320688398 754638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I discovered not to trust fdupes :P
< 1320688403 357729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that
< 1320688409 240691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor discovers not to trust by default :P
< 1320688414 43365 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed that disk space! :(
< 1320688424 577659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Doesn't fdupes use hard links
< 1320688425 10604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened?
< 1320688433 211291 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah.
< 1320688433 263889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hard links for anything mutable are an awful terrible idea
< 1320688438 859806 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't run it over /
< 1320688444 251671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I run it over /bin, /lib and /usr
< 1320688446 990342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Since tools are completely inconsistent about breaking or not breaking the link :P
< 1320688447 759126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough
< 1320688451 67496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I bet dpkg can break it
< 1320688464 523866 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously this plan did not fully work out as I had hoped :P
< 1320688474 213176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wouldn't touch anything dpkg manages, anyway.
< 1320688482 178888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hackiki broke
< 1320688486 643980 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With hard links, can you have a file with two different sets of permissions and everything?
< 1320688504 596613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Uhh... no.
< 1320688506 534215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the permissions are hardlinked too
< 1320688516 435102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they're on the inode not the directory
< 1320688517 821421 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two different paths and nothing else?
< 1320688525 378847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two different paths on the same fs
< 1320688532 477817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard links point to inodes, which contain everything but the name in this context.
< 1320688543 960636 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.75 QUIT :Quit: quitter
< 1320688554 982878 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1320688567 169785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1320688737 998482 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320688799 72445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: To answer your original question, HACKIKI WAS NEVER DOWN EVER.
< 1320688856 470428 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YES SIR.
< 1320688872 900055 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My backups are so great, looka how fast I fixed that shiiii!
< 1320688881 543145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shiiii is so fixed.
< 1320688903 235333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed the shit out of that shit!
< 1320688938 156455 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wait, what happened?
< 1320688964 420421 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I ran fdupes, that effed up some modes, but because Hackiki caches I didn't notice until those caches expired.
< 1320688964 724333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He fixed a horse race.
< 1320688985 445239 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I see.  So what was the problem that this caused?
< 1320689004 379344 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hackiki's chroot couldn't run anything :P
< 1320689015 918082 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, the problem fdupes solved?
< 1320689018 818757 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Lack of disk space.
< 1320689022 881446 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: huh.  How was it able to continue running when the chroot couldn't run anything?
< 1320689033 149670 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I would expect that to cause Hackiki to go down.
< 1320689035 923442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the httpd is from outside.
< 1320689037 519554 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It already was running, and didn't need to run anything new to read a cache.
< 1320689042 198844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or still running.
< 1320689065 442039 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I see.  So this was mostly a theoretical problem; it didn't cause any actual trouble.
< 1320689092 685094 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ...  Gregor: say, is hackiki.org supposed to be broken?
< 1320689117 293526 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, yes.  I said that because I noticed that Hackiki was running perfectly fine, and I suspected that maybe it was supposed to be broken.
< 1320689154 636344 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I've erased history too well.
< 1320689200 355726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor discovers the wonders of communicating with tswett :P
< 1320689217 390731 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION preens.
< 1320689297 870728 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so, how does this grinworthy software work?  There's a repository, and a sandbox with a copy of the head revision, and programs run in the sandbox, and, if they have write permissions, the sandbox is then committed back to the repository?
< 1320689308 675923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grinworthy is so not a word.
< 1320689316 61220 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is extremely a word.
< 1320689319 799952 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: More or less.
< 1320689341 856694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it use UMLBox yet?
< 1320689343 593893 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: truly you have a dizzying intellect.
< 1320689349 576598 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope :P
< 1320689365 271688 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It will ... sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
< 1320689367 387207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does Hackiki prevent injecting arbitrary badHTML, anyway
< 1320689374 673007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't.
< 1320689377 586362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat
< 1320689379 993353 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Welllllllllll
< 1320689384 279866 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To be fair, that's not quite true.
< 1320689389 160468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard quite enough :P ...but go on
< 1320689406 411972 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hackiki ITSELF doesn't, however the template Hackiki filesystem only lets you write scripts for the Wiki formatter, which only allows wikisyntax.
< 1320689432 820865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But custom formatters is like twenty to ninety percent of the appeal.
< 1320689437 368150 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why is Gentoo Prefix Interix Wtferix 3 giggerixes >_<
< 1320689449 502047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Doesn't take long to download in a civilised country
< 1320689452 512283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I was just slightly puzzled by the idea of a function which doesn't map numbers to numbers.
< 1320689455 32943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE I BECOME
< 1320689456 190972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think there might be better mirrors you could get it from
< 1320689459 567640 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's downloading at 800KB/s
< 1320689465 376254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug
< 1320689470 865892 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT - FAST - ENOUGH
< 1320689477 218805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It should come in source form :)
< 1320689495 858821 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, I'm tired of downloading, I'm going with Cygwin cuz it's better lol.
< 1320689502 785605 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320689509 254866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For some values of better lol
< 1320689519 194755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Equal to not)
< 1320689562 38111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1) The idea that any subject is inherently more rigorous/challenging than another is bollocks."
< 1320689572 546520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :— person in a Guardian comment thread.
< 1320689581 542589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, it's probably that big because it also contains the installers for the subsystem itself that it runs automatically *shrug*
< 1320689588 613056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the price of convenience
< 1320689589 322274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess it's not particularly surprising that it's a hotbed of idiocy.
< 1320689597 259669 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh yeah
< 1320689666 880380 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki would probably be rather simpler if pages were Lua files rather than arbitrary executables.
< 1320689689 936554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also more terrible
< 1320689694 181732 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1320689705 284142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since you'd have to use Lua
< 1320689720 950966 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of terrible, I'm working on another terrible codenomic.
< 1320689723 859091 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320689733 933486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codenomic?
< 1320689735 595918 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1320689783 654524 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've installed Apache and Postgres and, you know, done stuff.  Next is the actual *stuff* part of the nomic.
< 1320689807 378132 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah.  Essentially, a computer game whose source code can be changed by the players at runtime.
< 1320689816 37026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1320689823 632725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Two bad software choices!
< 1320689827 634090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good start.
< 1320689832 915226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds exceptionally tricky to get right.
< 1320689853 990323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember someone discussing something like this much earlier....?
< 1320689856 404995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Codenomics have worked perfectly well in the past; PerlNomic was the most prominent and lasted for years and with high activity.
< 1320689872 26137 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320689911 312516 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thank you.
< 1320689914 713401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a wiki-style thing with accessible code?
< 1320689921 96825 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: more or less, yeah.
< 1320689922 510944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it's a game.
< 1320689930 168992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean Hackiki.
< 1320689941 283190 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like single player Hackiki in a way(?)
< 1320689950 539356 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what would you advocate instead of Postgres?  The brilliant DBMS known as "files"?
< 1320689950 650255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1320689955 363581 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes, but with multiple players.
< 1320689964 272735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'd question why you think you need one, or what you're doing, or anything
< 1320689972 441353 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: also, there's a superuser, and the players can, with consensus, run stuff as the superuser.
< 1320689973 57555 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like multiplayer single-player Hackiki.
< 1320689973 311579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postgres is the best SQL DB though
< 1320690009 523792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't believe "lasted for years and with high activity" on PerlNomic
< 1320690013 985001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lasted for years but with very low activity
< 1320690017 18504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Those were separate statements
< 1320690020 528519 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used SQLite but you can use whatever works best for your situation
< 1320690024 627186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm…
< 1320690024 747179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It had high activity when it was an Agoran officer
< 1320690027 127225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of period
< 1320690027 722344 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  It's like single player Hackiki in a way(?)    Ngevd: yes, but with multiple players.
< 1320690034 598269 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :711)  It's like single player Hackiki in a way(?)    Ngevd: yes, but with multiple players.
< 1320690036 706898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even higher when it was Slashdotted
< 1320690038 772790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And PerlNomic-related proposals were regularly passing
< 1320690041 271929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did PerlNomic work, normally?
< 1320690044 375404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yes, but I wasn't around then
< 1320690046 270392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, if you want ACID (to disk) but don't particularly want SQL, what options do you have, apart from writing it yourself, which can be rather tricky.
< 1320690046 739305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1320690057 798119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was a bunch of cgi scripts, one of which let you add a proposal (a piece of perl code)
< 1320690063 583308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: another one let players vote on those proposals
< 1320690064 642821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: basically, proposals were Perl scripts, enough votes and it'd be run on the server as root
< 1320690066 419841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when one passed, it was executed
< 1320690079 37519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other cgi scripts added through this mechanism added various subgame mechanisms that added to a player's score, etc.
< 1320690081 939480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, with enough perms to affect the whole of the nomic
< 1320690090 226196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were scripts to help write proposals too
< 1320690091 372665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not root :P
< 1320690099 912062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :root was Normish
< 1320690109 348383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott said 3h 8s ago: Nobody uses any of the stuff musl doesn't have except for C++ crap <-- cfunge wants some of the C99 math functions, far from all required. Whatever FIXP, FPDP and FPSP requires.
< 1320690123 202761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge also wants _posix_poopadvise and uses inline asm
< 1320690123 899193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which had similar activity to PerlNomic while it was a player of Agora, but didn't last as long
< 1320690125 24371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm TURT might use sin/cos too
< 1320690130 970535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have sin/cos?
< 1320690137 799169 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Normish got onto a couple of spam blacklists.  }:P
< 1320690138 21975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin is not C99.
< 1320690139 192559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sinl
< 1320690140 404800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :long
< 1320690147 59798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err long double*
< 1320690161 597349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no longer inline asm, modern gcc actually compiles the intrinsic for it sanely
< 1320690166 52868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I interpreted Vorpal as "C99 functions, also sin and cos"
< 1320690172 750433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://git.etalabs.net/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=musl;a=blob;f=include/math.h;h=677248287ae99470346db96e5d64926ed12b7645;hb=HEAD
< 1320690189 232595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl?
< 1320690195 384051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl just doesn't have complete C99 math support.
< 1320690205 81628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: jfgi
< 1320690207 735942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the only reason I used inline asm was that using the gcc intrinsic produced terrible code in then modern gcc versions
< 1320690214 660297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also wait, people have used GCC inline assembly and come out sane?
< 1320690227 332059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc inline assembly is easy
< 1320690227 629395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, people claim I'm sane
< 1320690242 574098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, you're so Vorpid it hurts.
< 1320690244 276009 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why does Windows have to be so terrible?
< 1320690251 38669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why are you using Windows
< 1320690257 798222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's because you're not using the POSIX subsystem
< 1320690277 17365 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just wanted a "real" Windows machine to not cross-compile on and not test with WINE :P
< 1320690278 414339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just played the Trine 2 beta. Quite promising I have to say. I look forward to the full version of the game being released.
< 1320690281 414901 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah.  What I need to toss into the nomic blender now is... pages.  Stuff that you see when you go to zbasu.net, and which interacts with the database and stuff.
< 1320690294 575604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you play the first Trine? I forgot
< 1320690295 457695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme know when you give up :P
< 1320690304 447674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't played any of the Bundle games yet
< 1320690305 982800 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on the codenomic thing?
< 1320690308 743056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1320690312 585401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the ones I have played
< 1320690314 44946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yep!
< 1320690322 399869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, I didn't even get that bundle
< 1320690324 437404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i.e. Voxatron which isn't terribly good.
< 1320690324 864166 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't given up on it in the last two years.  }:P
< 1320690325 214203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320690327 516145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait dude
< 1320690328 228514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you
< 1320690329 680322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay.
< 1320690329 906205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get
< 1320690331 667385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spacechem
< 1320690346 630058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's made this little progress in the last two years?
< 1320690350 849479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Let me know when you give up in fifteen
< 1320690353 115855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Trine is really fun. Don't even bother trying it on intel graphics though
< 1320690388 623903 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm sure robots will become good conversationalists   probably not before they become good barbers, though
< 1320690391 444209 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has a trusted mode, right?  And it ought to be easy to write web scripts in Perl, and for Perl to access the database... right?
< 1320690421 844814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has taints, which are useless.
< 1320690424 464748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's what you mean.
< 1320690427 109423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say I never seen a game with so much bloom as Trine 2 though. Trine 1 had a lot of it too, but even more in Trine 2. Works within the setting though.
< 1320690447 586057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm may be HDR rather than bloom, not sure
< 1320690461 857746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: It's made this little progress in the last two years?
< 1320690461 976043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: Let me know when you give up in fifteen
< 1320690485 79849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also let me tell you about this amazing ElliottCraft thing, also how it will run on a new thing called @.
< 1320690521 429562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have never once claimed @ is an actively developed project, and I've already pointed people to the various bugs in other packages Elliottcraft is blocked on *shrugs*
< 1320690528 259710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix those bugs or quit complaining
< 1320690549 187080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is a good-natured jibe I have not heard of this?
< 1320690590 603697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually good-natured jibes aren't things you've actively whined about
< 1320690606 612297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When have I ever whined about EC or @ development?
< 1320690634 848502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320690643 978049 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OMG I'm only at 22% downloaded
< 1320690647 634486 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME
< 1320690659 662823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: America sux
< 1320690681 507339 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GODDDDDDDDDD BLESS AMERRRRRRICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND OF PEOPLE WHO PRONOUNCE THEIR ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!
< 1320690691 741375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*
< 1320690720 783585 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover wishes to remind you that Canadians pronounce their r's too
< 1320690889 626820 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1320690896 888570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:R
< 1320690919 841568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touch
< 1320690932 303192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Tourché.
< 1320691001 130183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: omg great news! I gotta write my own lib, ansi-terminal won't work for the output end of things and I need input support too
< 1320691007 798316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~fuck~yes~
< 1320691125 69334 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone on the IWC forum likes my MSPAFA
< 1320691166 977822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadians pronounce their R's so hard they pronounce them even when there are no R's!
< 1320691175 608276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And sigh, you were right about moving above the top of the screen
< 1320691183 721275 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grergror
< 1320691286 254725 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is curses at all relevant?
< 1320691300 357713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Yes, and unusable for my purposes
< 1320691305 654769 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1320691325 967388 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only pretend to be an even half-way decent programmer
< 1320691351 436179 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize you even pretended BA-DUM TISH
< 1320691453 947671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::R
< 1320691691 339410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I get the width and height of the current X screen from the terminal?
< 1320691939 461086 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: xrandr I suppose?
< 1320691944 44933 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a better way.
< 1320691946 57305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ahh, thanks
< 1320691952 613414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, guess what I don't have installed :P
< 1320691957 836344 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyuk
< 1320691969 293691 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdpyinfo?
< 1320691998 836965 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python 3.2?
< 1320691999 781262 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran?
< 1320691999 839876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Vista?
< 1320692009 421825 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T Unix System V?
< 1320692016 823226 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually xdpyinfo was a suggestion.
< 1320692145 718844 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of xdpyinfo, when I did a fresh install of Debian on my shiny new machine for some reason it thought my DPI was 350, resulting in lolfontsize.
< 1320692219 989325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Open an rxvt or xterm (xfce terminal won't work, probably not gnome terminal either) and run this Haskell program (no dependencies): http://sprunge.us/WeDa
< 1320692222 126187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me, it's worth it :P
< 1320692228 559586 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh
< 1320692233 706889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Not for epileptics
< 1320692239 233246 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whew*, don't have Haskell at work.
< 1320692256 4709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit!
< 1320692265 842678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're on x86-64 Linux right? ;D
< 1320692286 466707 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yessssssssssss
< 1320692335 959457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dammit, I can't statically link this :P
< 1320692347 945082 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahahahaha
< 1320692389 925576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I _CAN_ rewrite it as a Python script!
< 1320692494 986062 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320692512 856046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oerjan
< 1320692530 356569 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening all
< 1320692533 641604 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On gnome-terminal, the windows gets small, then it grows, shrinks again, and then a lot of strange character sequences (meant as escape codes) appear on the screen, with the window still small.
< 1320692540 90105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yep :P
< 1320692553 91973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what happens in Xfce too
< 1320692561 657631 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to dislike negative numbers.
< 1320692630 466441 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hahaha, I'm making you write Python.
< 1320692664 533970 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throw in an abs application on the "let j" line and no escape-spam appears in the window.
< 1320692707 403821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I think negative numbers might be what make it go so haywire on rxvt
< 1320692756 704965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Python seems to ruin the effect... maybe it's not fast enough :P
< 1320692765 503362 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teehee
< 1320692841 509561 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On rxvt, the effect does not change with/without abs.
< 1320692847 921999 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to ignore the sign.
< 1320692860 280734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, weird.
< 1320692883 41389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work on your machine too? Dunno if it's just my WM or whatever. i.e. the pseudo-duplicated window effect and the like
< 1320692884 953172 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my xterm does nothing.
< 1320692906 396820 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get no duplicate window effect.
< 1320692948 180306 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a periodically shrinking/growing and oscillating window with rxvt, no effect with xterm, just grow/shrink with gnome terminal.
< 1320692953 244968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh
< 1320692958 588016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the xterm codes, so it's weird that it does nothing
< 1320692967 635046 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a security feature.
< 1320693037 775038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a non-annoyance feature :P
< 1320693037 931896 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, security, indeed.
< 1320693050 252678 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Allow window ops" in Ctrl-Rightclick.
< 1320693066 279432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I can think of a valid use for them :P
< 1320693087 410289 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There is a valid use.
< 1320693099 40351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I could even spawn more xterms; I'm thinking of something that spews audio to /dev/dsp or whatever, while bar-visualising it using an array of resizing xterms :-D
< 1320693113 717938 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the times where "gui, noun: 10 xterms and a background image" was true,
< 1320693117 542161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could combine that with colour codes!
< 1320693126 165619 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could position pop-up windows where they belong.
< 1320693133 431424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, wow.
< 1320693135 955262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did people actually do that?
< 1320693146 442536 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you could make a multi-window application without linking X11.
< 1320693146 737472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought xmessage was ancient.
< 1320693154 665598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, pre-X terminal multiplexing
< 1320693169 973592 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, X terminal multiplexing,
< 1320693175 427653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, without linking in, right
< 1320693176 880799 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without depending on libX11 yourself.
< 1320693188 474212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just speak the X wire protocol :P
< 1320693197 826331 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too young to know whether someone used it.
< 1320693210 590197 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME ignores the position, it just uses the size.
< 1320693302 986199 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the reason I get no duplicate window effects or other strange things is most likely that I am using a compositing system.
< 1320693348 728467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Me too (xfwm4 with compositing enabled)
< 1320693351 877491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although no fancy effects.
< 1320693354 774214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it was surprising.
< 1320693361 784095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my LCD refresh rate is just too low.
< 1320693376 952116 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run gnome-shell (gnome 3.0), and the stuff looks really smooth here.
< 1320693413 88426 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw: gnome terminal interprets size 0 as "default/original size"
< 1320693442 525467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: My condolences re: gnome-shell
< 1320693449 228390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's actually Mutter doing the window management duties there.
< 1320693535 349253 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is mutter a module of gnome-shell? I don't see a separate window manager process here.
< 1320693585 905050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1320693604 298421 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In gnome fallback mode, I think there is mutter. And if mutter crashes, you get metacity.
< 1320693615 70567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Maybe you're running COmpiz instead or something, or the executable is called something else
< 1320693618 572389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mutter window manager can function as standalone window manager application for GNOME-like desktops, and serves as the primary window manager for the GNOME Shell desktop,[4] which is an integral part of the GNOME 3.0 release. Mutter is extensible with plugins and supports numerous visual effects.
< 1320693620 154047 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might call that a "cheat code"...
< 1320693636 39669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only the fallback mode had a usable panel :P
< 1320693648 385581 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard mode has neither.
< 1320693707 726108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither what?
< 1320693715 214458 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad grammar.
< 1320693726 455831 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "The standard mode doesn't have one, too".
< 1320693726 954320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hasn't either
< 1320693751 347881 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, hasn't either would have been correct.
< 1320693822 418705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Gnome 3.0 all that terrible?
< 1320693826 33565 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like mutter runs as dynamic library inside gnome-shell.
< 1320693848 52335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1320693866 520389 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnome 3.0 looks nice, and is quite usable - but it abandons some concepts we get really used to.
< 1320693877 615579 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them being a customizable panel with applets.
< 1320693880 166884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't run gnome-shell for quite a long while, but I used it for about a day a few months ago and it was intolerable; reviews don't appear to imply it's improved at all
< 1320693885 377153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking "the buttons are all precisely the wrong shade of blue" terrible or "help where are the buttons" terrible?
< 1320693905 337195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We're talking "unusable application starting/window management interface"
< 1320693926 711211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I'm not even tied to the panel + windows model, I just don't want to replace it with something /worse/. If GNOME 3 came out with a tiling WM I'd give it a long while before deciding it sucked :P
< 1320693966 17630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the later reasons for it sucking?
< 1320693973 291881 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+F1 i-c-e-w-Enter is not really that bad to start an application (yeah, I'm using debian)
< 1320693994 244355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What?
< 1320694009 370878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: That's what dmenu is for :P
< 1320694014 319402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'd give it a long while, there are other reasons for it sucking which are more subtle.
< 1320694037 504888 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had configured the quick-launch bar in GNOME 2.x, but never got used to using it.
< 1320694059 97025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your last two lines have been uninterpretable, sorry
< 1320694079 906744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If GNOME 3 came out with a tiling WM I'd give it a long while before deciding it sucked :P"
< 1320694128 255156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "a tiling WM could possibly be a major improvement on the previous GNOME 2 model, so I would give it a fair chance before making any judgement".
< 1320694145 649404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas I could tell gnome-shell was fundamentally broken in a day.
< 1320694161 719147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but why would your judgement still be that it sucked?
< 1320694222 140489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't imply that.
< 1320694234 610707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, ambiguity.
< 1320694257 837749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, GNOME 3.4 is dropping Linux support
< 1320694264 163547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very smart of them
< 1320694274 78868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Poettering told them to!
< 1320694275 144882 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD only?
< 1320694290 713744 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like news from the onion, if you ask me.
< 1320694300 722329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwuh?
< 1320694302 290213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1320694304 355248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320694306 928737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropping non-Linux support
< 1320694318 653265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way around would be particularly amazing news :P
< 1320694330 845359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're not spiting everyone because Ubuntu switched to Unity?
< 1320694359 310958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320694367 466252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck you, we're leaving! ANNOUNCING: GNOME 3.4 for Windows!"
< 1320694415 802792 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell bothers with cheating at the International Maths Olympiad?
< 1320694451 883663 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean North Korea
< 1320694458 214159 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why!?
< 1320694538 698720 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pointless!
< 1320694543 405367 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And rather sad!Q
< 1320694555 341215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 'Q' is symbolic of my pity.
< 1320694559 93580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1320694584 232491 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, John McCarthy was the Lisp guy???????????????
< 1320694596 634128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320694609 334962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't Joe
< 1320694623 870669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this time I've been wondering why we were mourning the inventor of McCarthyism.
< 1320694638 234740 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He died in '57
< 1320694652 291978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: .........
< 1320694672 11133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... have to go and... do... things...
< 1320694672 866445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320694700 889600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For reference, Joseph McCarthy would have been 103 had he died this year.
< 1320694723 280998 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironically, he was killed by Fascists
< 1320694726 972922 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1320694798 539317 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320694799 136014 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the benefit of future civilizations: he died probably due to alcoholism.
< 1320694800 168557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reactions to GNOME Shell have also not been universally negative." --Wikipedia
< 1320694802 278927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's good then!
< 1320694819 27157 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me it just leaves off there.
< 1320694825 906117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the benefit of future civilizations: Ngevd is making a quaint 21st century joke; Joseph McCarthy is the President of Europe.
< 1320694837 85214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No :P
< 1320694850 386603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: We really have to destroy these logs before civilisation falls.
< 1320694858 890957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the benefit of future civilizations: So that you don't discover our horrible secret.
< 1320694889 872050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Terrible Secret of #esoteric.
< 1320694925 645762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the benefit of future civilisations (shame on you, elliott and Ngevd): that was a reference to Shakespeare.
< 1320694928 602844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the /kicker robot. Kicking is the answer. Kicking will protect you from the Terrible Secret of #esoteric.
< 1320694933 104693 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The #esoteric Secret of Terrible
< 1320694944 52499 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look forward to GNOME 4
< 1320694946 793567 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320694959 303849 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. I look forward to GNOME 3.6 or so.
< 1320694972 869537 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME with a new major version is known to be major breakage.
< 1320694987 205415 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I use Unity
< 1320694995 26606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am masochist.
< 1320695010 95582 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric has a terrible secret?
< 1320695016 838171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Known for all two versions it's happened? :P
< 1320695021 996235 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, shh
< 1320695027 673670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I suppose GNOME 1.0 happened, but I'm pretty sure GNOME 1 was never not awful.
< 1320695032 329529 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a Terrific Secret!
< 1320695050 289744 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.
< 1320695067 136520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistics with three data points is overkill.
< 1320695078 70577 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistics with data is overkill
< 1320695080 26288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.
< 1320695082 264655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :712)  Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.
< 1320695086 866233 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You measure a third point if you need an error estimate.
< 1320695090 853458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, Ngevd and olsner made it better before I added it.
< 1320695095 734405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 712
< 1320695098 869190 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*  Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.
< 1320695103 608919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.   You measure a third point if you need an error estimate.
< 1320695104 798459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go :P
< 1320695105 512181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :712)  Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.   You measure a third point if you need an error estimate.
< 1320695147 730610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: So is your name 22 and you just have to mangle it everywhere because of the leading digit? :P
< 1320695172 771444 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my name covers a terrible secret ;)
< 1320695195 918696 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a terrific secret, perhaps.
< 1320695196 44349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not THE Terrible Secret
< 1320695214 659414 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's 1111)
< 1320695220 680744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you... have two 11th birthdays?
< 1320695237 833300 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible, if he's 47
< 1320695254 918045 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or older
< 1320695256 24681 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :today, as every day, is his elevenhundredeleventieth birthday
< 1320695269 929593 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Don't tell everyone the number combination of my suitcase!
< 1320695273 139425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, maybe twice11 was born at exactly midnight and blah blah blah DST.
< 1320695287 490781 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe he was born on February the 30th
< 1320695297 687375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :he will be born in 4 days, on 11/11 -11
< 1320695358 967217 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That nick has been chosen 13 years ago, when freaks still knew CP437 with graphic symbols for control characters and is correctly spelled twice#11
< 1320695369 737210 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there's a new esolang
< 1320695380 833768 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, probably today I would use a different nick, if I didn't get used to this one.
< 1320695401 917307 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Taneb in most places except for this channel.
< 1320695416 169910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, there's a new esolang <-- any good?
< 1320695421 524817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only conclude that twice11 is actually Mars.
< 1320695427 762808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't appear to be a brainfuck derivative
< 1320695435 317404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is a start
< 1320695441 245316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets down the brick.
< 1320695464 614660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, Phantom_Hoover
< 1320695469 67602 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep a hold of that brick
< 1320695477 676193 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION congratulates elliot for looking up CP437
< 1320695480 786672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION picks the brick up again.
< 1320695495 198939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I know what CP437 is :P
< 1320695500 863816 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what are you doing with that brick?
< 1320695501 102062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, we all know CP437.
< 1320695508 818567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know it off by heart, though
< 1320695512 25712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, readying it for some brickbrainin'.
< 1320695516 411936 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :heart is #3
< 1320695525 906876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a second opinion
< 1320695528 81879 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Lenta
< 1320695533 370221 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: do a brickroll
< 1320695550 530195 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some brickabrack
< 1320695568 522304 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1320695579 924039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh FFS, when I look at ¬ my first thought is "better expand the food stockpile again".
< 1320695583 723172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: hm, which base should it be interpreted in?
< 1320695584 841390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Looks vaguely interesting
< 1320695594 617094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1320695595 524116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd:
< 1320695624 965021 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm only commenting as much as that elliott already looked up the right character.
< 1320695628 485125 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's a bit of a typo there
< 1320695628 608587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look much like a Brainfuck derivative.
< 1320695631 197022 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, he's either writing something big or died.
< 1320695647 372526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's he
< 1320695657 544142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily.
< 1320695667 85337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir Terry Pratchett?
< 1320695678 96697 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily boils?
< 1320695679 88433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: you mean " I can only conclude that twice11 is actually Mars."? That doesn't mean anything to me
< 1320695683 534861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that he released a book like 3 days ago?
< 1320695685 27907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How was I supposed to know that from the context
< 1320695698 377507 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind reading
< 1320695704 272817 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, that's the quote I meant.
< 1320695706 599380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Anyway, you'll know when he dies since he's committed to suicide *shrugs* :P
< 1320695716 668556 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily wont ever talk it seems
< 1320695717 169756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: so what is the symbol for Mars?
< 1320695724 816256 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to talk to boily
< 1320695725 58388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have access to Google
< 1320695774 289625 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^K in the display RAM of some ancient IBM graphic cards.
< 1320695776 894217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 11 in base 10, meh. I was looking at the hexdecimal 0x11
< 1320695785 75973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The lurkers are usually lurkers because they're boring people.
< 1320695797 999817 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Get some Turbo(?) Pascal!
< 1320695807 568101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: ugh nop
< 1320695808 691463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no*
< 1320695815 529927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forces twice11 to use Delphi.NET
< 1320695830 345302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have a vague memory of hearing about that
< 1320695833 238416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds horrible
< 1320695845 474335 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last Delphi I had contact with is Delphi 5.
< 1320695848 193895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, ConsoleKit is dying
< 1320695853 613433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being replaced with systemd
< 1320695857 853011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320695865 942206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what will happen to distros not using systemd
< 1320695873 316909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll switch to systemd :)
< 1320695879 277660 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, nothing named CamelKit can remain in Linux, it needs to be a somethingd
< 1320695881 605706 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually no worse than Visual Basic, but I don't think this means anything...
< 1320695882 317736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you think ubuntu will?
< 1320695891 69122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Debian are, IIRC
< 1320695895 443897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320695904 600987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt Canonical are so attached to upstart that they won't in the face of pressure like that, but we'll see
< 1320695906 317533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but did debian ever use upstart?
< 1320695906 444306 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :PolicyKit gets what then? permissiond?
< 1320695921 273389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does PolicyKit depend on ConsoleKit?
< 1320695932 72311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't see anything about it being unmaintained on freedesktop.org
< 1320695935 876382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do consolekit and policykit actually do btw?
< 1320695949 616740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also what will you do for Kitten then? I assume you won't use systemd...
< 1320695951 317056 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but olsner suggested all *Kits are dying.
< 1320695959 870567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :policykit is what allows you to do things like modify net connection/users/packages from the GUI
< 1320695961 546227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess you could just implement the relevant interfaces
< 1320695965 421764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for stuff that doesn't use gksudo or w/e)
< 1320695971 878604 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: they could change names too, I guess
< 1320695973 267090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and consolekit?
< 1320695974 237585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finer-grained stuff
< 1320695978 649922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cat had some dtens.
< 1320695984 56546 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people like to rewrite stuff because they can
< 1320695986 234676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ConsoleKit is a framework for defining and tracking users, login sessions, and seats."
< 1320695987 475091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ConsoleKit is a framework for managing user sessions and permissions. Some of the most common usages of consolekit is allowing non-root users to mount removable media and suspending/shutting down the computer through common desktop applications (ie: thunar, nautilus, the gnome shutdown menu, etc)."
< 1320695996 841202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seats?
< 1320696003 628550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1320696004 19176 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because the existing stuff sucks, but so will their replacements :D
< 1320696004 532974 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huh, i just figured since the active people are so boring, the lurkers must be the interesting ones
< 1320696030 207088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what twice11 meant
< 1320696035 53433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure olsner was not being serious :P
< 1320696047 159991 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yep, they're too interesting to dilute their interestingness with banter
< 1320696052 338222 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: seats: If your computer has two keyboards and two seperately controlled monitors, you can have two independent sessions at the consoles.
< 1320696052 700155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like I could do without consolekit. Since none of those things actually work on my desktop anyway. Probably because I use startx rather than a login manager
< 1320696056 231259 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are two seats.
< 1320696070 765573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: ... that sounds extremely rare
< 1320696071 972288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're meant to have ck-launch-session in ~/.xinitrc.
< 1320696084 177857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm I do have that
< 1320696086 945471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's not incredibly rare. Any thin client is probably a seat.
< 1320696088 234076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch --exit-with-session startxfce4
< 1320696107 435240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... why doesn't those things work
< 1320696110 811302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug
< 1320696129 757048 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of this new-fangled Linux stuff looks like overdesigned crap.
< 1320696137 273245 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe I just don't understand it.
< 1320696156 637500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess removable media is nice. Hm
< 1320696163 213007 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a second...
< 1320696176 217285 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lenta seems awfully similar to my old Ook!++
< 1320696181 277714 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well... yes and no, names like ConsoleKit do look awfully out of place among the rest of the stuff
< 1320696184 812932 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except further from brainfuck
< 1320696189 207608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320696211 924317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: freedesktop people do not care much about fitting in to the "old" ecosystem
< 1320696212 202595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is there actually any /etc/init.d/consolekit though?
< 1320696213 300321 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the process is actually just called console-kit-something, I thought it was called ConsoleKit
< 1320696229 908790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /etc/rc.d or whatever
< 1320696246 194151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/eventuality guess this took out
< 1320696247 459603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1320696248 736179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/out/off/
< 1320696249 114656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no such init script
< 1320696251 259858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software)
< 1320696260 270956 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't mac or next where they started calling things FooKit etc?
< 1320696284 699148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WebKit is the only thing I can think of
< 1320696288 743412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is unrelated to all these
< 1320696299 121838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: OS X is more about Core Blah
< 1320696310 974424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :image, garphics, animation, video
< 1320696314 175308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/garphics/graphics/
< 1320696316 781955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :core quartz?
< 1320696322 819626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cowartz
< 1320696324 119010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what was quartz now again
< 1320696325 81208 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core Dump
< 1320696328 807863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it do?
< 1320696347 463828 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quartz == The display engine based on PDF data.
< 1320696350 187699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320696369 773719 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe replaced by Core Graphics now.
< 1320696373 53438 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea.
< 1320696373 633521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320696386 437172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quartz specifically refers to a pair of Mac OS X technologies, each part of the Core Graphics framework: Quartz 2D and Quartz Compositor. It includes both a 2D renderer in Core Graphics and the composition engine that sends instructions to the graphics card. Because of this vertical nature, Quartz is often interchanged synonymously with Core Graphics.[1]"
< 1320696395 205327 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where the heck was I downloading Gentoo Prefix? >_<
< 1320696401 562211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ?
< 1320696405 910048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you mean "why the heck"
< 1320696407 454760 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't find it :P
< 1320696413 671774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The URL or file
< 1320696415 144650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's conceptually inbetween Haskell and Perl?
< 1320696420 438400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because the alternative is Cygwin
< 1320696425 339857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why windows...
< 1320696426 142457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The file. You can't help me, but that doesn't stop me from blarping at you.
< 1320696430 421960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What's in-between a banana and a pile of dirt
< 1320696434 699230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right :P
< 1320696438 746453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try the Windows file-finding feature?
< 1320696445 365362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It OCCASIONALLY works.
< 1320696445 777638 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a rotting banana.
< 1320696448 687720 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I was downloading it on Windows.
< 1320696450 980152 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like bananas
< 1320696451 678620 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I know I wasn't.
< 1320696453 998627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, modern internix requires win 7 ultimate, win 7 enterprise, or win server 2008 iirc
< 1320696456 907880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320696463 47460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: find . -name \*gentoo\*
< 1320696466 615771 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's the rotting banana of programming languages?
< 1320696469 679618 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what I'm doing :P
< 1320696471 657923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gentoo Prefix supports XP onwards
< 1320696475 376949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320696478 298410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Perl
< 1320696489 449013 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was the Banana!
< 1320696489 988389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can't do it on my win 7 pro install.
< 1320696491 224142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1320696495 659905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like I need it
< 1320696501 285013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so... why are you using windows?
< 1320696509 26756 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If this doesn't work on my Windows 7 Pro ... KILL KILL KILL KILL DIE DIE DIE
< 1320696515 265722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It will.
< 1320696515 369258 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wanted a VM to not cross compile on.
< 1320696517 914153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Vorpal is just an idiot.
< 1320696529 216422 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if I can't find the damned thing X-D
< 1320696536 55204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, make sure you have the Administrator account enabled; see the manual for why
< 1320696538 423809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, microsoft said it wasn't supported.
< 1320696547 585376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft don't support XP, indeed.
< 1320696554 191099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how this is surprising.
< 1320696557 848274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm
< 1320696560 700346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it actually reached its EOL yet
< 1320696563 93920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Version 6.1 is included in Windows 7 (Enterprise and Ultimate) and Windows Server 2008 R2 (all editions)."
< 1320696564 336759 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, where the HELL did I download this >_<
< 1320696573 520633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, OS components only get upgraded with the OS
< 1320696577 750192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, NT 7 or whatever isn't available for XP
< 1320696589 599753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: /tmp?
< 1320696591 632396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you reboot? :P
< 1320696605 824585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just saying that version 6.1 of interix is not supported on win 7 pro.
< 1320696610 755727 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had to reboot the machine that was SSH'd in to download.
< 1320696611 613068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can use an older version
< 1320696613 217076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1320696613 619318 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hence why I lost it.
< 1320696616 764331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could use... the version for XP?
< 1320696624 103752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would that run under win 7?
< 1320696630 737468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So was it in /tmp
< 1320696641 524105 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, why would I download in tmp :P
< 1320696646 226889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why the fuck would you use the version for XP on Windows 7
< 1320696655 865513 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUND IT
< 1320696666 762816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURRAH!
< 1320696668 668540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my point exactly. I'm just saying if you use win 7 you will need win 7 ultimate or win 7 enterprise
< 1320696677 203801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who would still use xp?
< 1320696693 952838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Version 6.1 is included in Windows 7 (Enterprise and Ultimate)"
< 1320696697 401795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: INCLUDED
< 1320696707 432731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out smaller versions of Windows don't include all components which is why you might have to download them.
< 1320696719 442153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did check recently, it is NOT available for windows 7 pro according to microsoft.
< 1320696720 13238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also irrelevant since the Gentoo Prefix ISO contains the SUA files.
< 1320696728 449741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I'm wrong, please tell me where you found it
< 1320696732 942147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I would very much like it
< 1320696748 124171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try looking on the Gentoo Prefix ISO :)
< 1320696752 270022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1320696772 473913 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, Quark is dying :(
< 1320696783 540485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: quark?
< 1320696785 175789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Although Microsoft is killing SUA as of Windows 9.
< 1320696791 85437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320696793 233012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 8, I think.
< 1320696805 127969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is set to be deprecated after the release of Windows 8. [4]"
< 1320696809 372994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :'(
< 1320696810 8619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like 8 will still have it
< 1320696811 884442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, fair enough
< 1320696825 742881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares, Windows 9 will probably suck :P
< 1320696832 175106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: tell me if it works on win 7 pro though if that is what you have
< 1320696838 689658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: won't windows 8 suck too?
< 1320696850 307496 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Piet pi calculation is the most interesting
< 1320696854 733815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did I say otherwise?
< 1320696859 269110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 8 will support SUA, so it's irrelevant
< 1320696861 478065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope
< 1320696866 371564 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what I have.
< 1320696866 648469 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can only assume he'll survive though, haven't seen any mention of quark leaving the show in all the spoilers I've read
< 1320696870 764654 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't gotten OS X working in a VM yet :(
< 1320696876 417694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Don't read spoilers :P
< 1320696877 259163 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have 16GB of RAM now, so I'm VM'ing EVERYTHING)
< 1320696902 255696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There are tutorials for things like OS X in VirtualBox
< 1320696905 493137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pain but doable
< 1320696908 613213 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, I've tried.
< 1320696909 909404 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And failed.
< 1320696913 498614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less of a pain now that Apple support it on OS X hosts
< 1320696914 741162 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it doesn't like my CPU or something.
< 1320696915 584298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you have a copy of xp pro 64-bit? Quite lightweight for being windows. More so than the 32-bit xp
< 1320696919 374282 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I shouldn't have gone with AMD >(
< 1320696921 109738 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>:(
< 1320696934 288573 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't need lightweight :P
< 1320696950 86608 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually like reading spoilers so I know something of what I have to look forward to
< 1320696950 766358 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It gets through most of the installer, then freezes and dies horribly at 11% remaining and won't boot.
< 1320696955 502608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: come on, aero is never going to be fast in a VM
< 1320696959 909812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Heh
< 1320696962 949754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sure you can turn that off)
< 1320696967 616264 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Me using a GUI? Ha ha ha no
< 1320696979 565402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: That ruins DS9 a lot since the plot goes through major changes *shrug*
< 1320696980 197364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :P
< 1320696993 581366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Aero runs just fine in a VM, and Aero can also be turned off.
< 1320697013 215531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did I say anything that indicated the opposite of the latter+
< 1320697015 488762 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, what's all this about Quark dying which now I assume is Star Trek Quark?
< 1320697016 228075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/
< 1320697027 680854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I'm assuming you're not just throwing bullshit statements unrelated to what the topic is at Gregor
< 1320697038 297193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I even said you could turn it off
< 1320697041 19238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (sure you can turn that off)
< 1320697056 59760 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm just occasionally dumping the plot of whatever DS9 episode I happen to be watching
< 1320697066 402407 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh :P
< 1320697077 5040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320697079 285052 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just the opening gambit, since I sometimes stop reading IRC while watching
< 1320697114 610897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if anyone wants to avoid systemd in the future, Kitten is their best bet :P
< 1320697145 562662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_To_Go <-- now that is interesting. How do they think that will work with activation? Or did they drop activation and locking to hardware?
< 1320697202 440963 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320697202 839879 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320697202 892413 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320697437 160837 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! this is the episode where *that* happens... this is about as hilarious as when the guy in Enterprise got pregnant and grew nipples on his arms
< 1320697481 569881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Which episode
< 1320697492 565959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So anyway, you were right about ANSI codes and scrollbars and I hate you for it
< 1320697514 46259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what did I say about scrollbars? I don't remember
< 1320697520 913415 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4x25, Body Parts
< 1320697533 447246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That you couldn't just move the cursor up beyond the top of the terminal screen to poke lines that have scrolled out of view
< 1320697537 770700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right, which is really annoying
< 1320697574 334546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320697607 906772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes cursor movement doesn't really fit well into the concept of scrollback
< 1320697620 907791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not surprised
< 1320697648 136608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no idea what I can do, other than... well, I know you can hook into mouse scrollwheel because vim does it, so I could do that, wait for a repaint, and then adjust the now-visible lines appropriately??
< 1320697649 126110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euurgh
< 1320697666 562291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1320697667 653057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unlikely that you'll have more than 24 tasks pending at a time but it's still possible, so this is annoying
< 1320697676 513455 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: INSTALLIN' DAT GENTOO
< 1320697677 160025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know if that will work
< 1320697685 449656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Awww yeah
< 1320697695 778145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is the Administrator account activated :P
< 1320697698 11317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION HELPFUL REMINDER
< 1320697706 985663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't see why not
< 1320697718 942513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hmm, I guess because maybe only the last 24 lines are actually active
< 1320697721 142982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I think it might send some terminal code to get scroll wheel as character input, and it might only work with alt screen
< 1320697722 71659 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: INSTALLING SUA FAILED
< 1320697724 76196 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I BLAME YOU
< 1320697725 59656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, printf goes to the end of the scrollbar not before
< 1320697727 844616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1320697740 780810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: failed with what error?
< 1320697747 233385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Weird, I guess it's specifically checking for the right version of 7?
< 1320697751 813491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just get Ultimate, man :P
< 1320697759 533589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... downgrade to XP, I suppose :P
< 1320697761 905063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I told you so...
< 1320697765 312200 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: None, just "Installing SUA failed!"
< 1320697776 521403 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This Pro is actually /legal/
< 1320697789 81685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: did it do it at the start of the install, or did it happen a bit into the install?
< 1320697792 872388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320697799 440009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wooooow! I care so much :P
< 1320697804 914502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Beginning of install.
< 1320697809 72648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you mean to imply that your Ultimate wouldn't be? :)
< 1320697816 801638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs cygwin.
< 1320697824 146604 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm sure as hell not going to PAY for Windows.
< 1320697830 451159 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, cygwin, welcome to hell
< 1320697831 988073 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort of tolerate having it if I don't pay for it.
< 1320697832 878795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You will regret your decision of Cygwin over piracy very rapidly
< 1320697834 809421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: was it gentoo's installer or microsoft's installer that did that?
< 1320697844 262706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo's installer is the only installer involved.
< 1320697849 507288 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't have a clue, Gentoo's just called SUA's installer.
< 1320697851 483117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320697861 656999 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're lucky you'll have a 64-bit windows where cygwin doesn't work at all
< 1320697867 516215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't?
< 1320697868 413755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1320697876 367684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it doesn't?
< 1320697880 514398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO AWESOME
< 1320697881 403705 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what cygwin does to emulate fork() is ... horrible
< 1320697887 17746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why would it not work on 64-bit linux as a 32-bit program...
< 1320697893 426374 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *might* work
< 1320697901 284968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit Linux?
< 1320697901 392996 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hello!
< 1320697902 509359 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes it just doesn't, apparently
< 1320697903 499643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin for Linux!
< 1320697907 791159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: windows...
< 1320697907 980222 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Uhhh, I have 64-bit Windows, but I assure you Cygwin works ...
< 1320697909 708879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Holy fucking
< 1320697919 911634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Your long reign as lurker is over
< 1320697937 964910 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work, so my activity on IRC isn't quite stellar.
< 1320697939 113950 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on some 64-bit systems, cygwin *sometimes* works :)
< 1320697978 872014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: You're at work 24/7? :P
< 1320697979 998025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: really? How does it fail then?
< 1320697981 616275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs 
< 1320698007 431478 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10997
< 1320698013 914310 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fork() fails because cygwin can't manage to find a way to load all DLL's at the same address as in the parent
< 1320698019 914993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320698021 545215 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sometimes I forget that my computer's open.
< 1320698047 342494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: OK, you've technically talked 10 times this year before today :P
< 1320698053 662312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there was a two year gap before that.
< 1320698064 671008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was he in the channel then
< 1320698069 714149 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTALLIN' DAT CYGWIN
< 1320698070 965736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is kind of important
< 1320698071 726838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno
< 1320698088 440395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is going to be more painful than downloading Ultimate :P
< 1320698091 848841 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's *one* of the failure modes anyway, and apparently the workarounds for it don't always work at all
< 1320698093 209100 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooah, history from 4 years ago!
< 1320698096 803045 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: INSTALLIN' DAT CYGWIN
< 1320698112 176679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hm...
< 1320698127 239518 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really was a fan of cygwin. If you just need to get GNU programs run, use MinGW. If you need a shell, use msys. If you need more, use unix.
< 1320698137 64967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: MSYS is just an ancient version of Cygwin.
< 1320698144 564015 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: MSYS is sooooo painfully obsolete.
< 1320698147 281865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah why does Gregor need windows, he never answered.
< 1320698149 849576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally just Cygwin.
< 1320698151 304050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ancient.
< 1320698152 491398 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes I did.
< 1320698153 812661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with no Unicode support.
< 1320698170 279606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not really, I saw no sufficient important reason :P
< 1320698170 517152 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vorpal: I wanted a VM to not cross compile on."
< 1320698182 693197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: And MinGW doesn't let you use compile anything that uses such esoteric POSIX APIs as fork() :P
< 1320698184 190392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cross compiling is kind of less work than cygwin
< 1320698195 109430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If it compiles it works, right?
< 1320698197 413977 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Until shit doesn't work and you can't test why.
< 1320698203 405136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly!
< 1320698209 423022 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is no fork on Windows. Too bad.
< 1320698211 510857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no need to test or anything. Especially if C code
< 1320698224 379553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Which is why Cygwin and the POSIX subsystem provide one :P
< 1320698230 605382 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cygwin is just kudging around it and failing on x64 sometimes.
< 1320698239 902984 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want MingW for compiling, I just want a shell that doesn't suck foot, and an SSH server so I never have to look at the UI.
< 1320698242 655663 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That screams Cygwin.
< 1320698250 406514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yep, but the POSIX subsystem isn't, it just implements POSIX APIs at the NT layer.
< 1320698260 257808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: fork is slow there though
< 1320698270 32875 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why does cygwin not use the POSIX system then?
< 1320698271 632685 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No shit
< 1320698274 488055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (a) Stop typoing it already it's MinGW (b) Cygwin's shell sucks foot because it's built on top of Cygwin
< 1320698285 818707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Cygwin is older than the POSIX subsystem.
< 1320698292 45384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It dates to the 95 days.
< 1320698306 754426 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Cygwin will live after the POSIX system is dropped in Windows 9 :P
< 1320698315 481608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO live
< 1320698333 752359 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not mean you can not have a Cygwin replacement using the POSIX personality on NT-derivatives that provide it.
< 1320698348 795508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: That's why Gentoo Prefix exists.
< 1320698352 559565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for Windows)
< 1320698361 12372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a full environment on top of SFU/SUA.
< 1320698370 870360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just doesn't like Gregor's specific release of Windows for licensing reasons.
< 1320698372 542273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does interix do fork()?
< 1320698379 625472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't cygwin just switch to do the same?
< 1320698382 932430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How does Linux do fork()
< 1320698389 217615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a subsystem, it's implemented at the NT layer
< 1320698394 783189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at the same level as the implementation of Win32
< 1320698398 531954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320698408 18828 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is babby forked?
< 1320698409 950882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so why can't cygwin directly call ntdll?
< 1320698413 339833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Cygwin to use it would involve first throwing out all of Cygwin's code and second becoming SFU/SUA
< 1320698432 267695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any third party NT sub systems at all?
< 1320698434 44853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because it runs on top of Win32?
< 1320698445 771916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, SFU/SUA is based on an acquisition of Interix.
< 1320698463 954176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft didn't make it originally?
< 1320698464 489366 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin and SSH installed!
< 1320698464 898386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320698468 527205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think
< 1320698481 709390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah:
< 1320698484 423932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This product began to be developed in 1996 under the product name OpenNT by Softway Systems, Inc. before the name was changed to Interix in 1998. The last release by Softway Systems was release 2.2. Softway Systems had virtually completed the next release code-named Firebrand in 1999 which became the basis of Interix 3.0.
< 1320698484 548631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix was acquired by Microsoft in 1999. Microsoft continued to distribute Interix 2.2 as a standalone product until 2002.
< 1320698484 601084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix release 3.0 was released as component of Services for Unix (SFU) 3.0 in 2002. Interix release 3.5 was released as component of SFU 3.5 in January, 2004.
< 1320698484 683297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix became integrated as component of the regular Windows OS distribution[5] as a component of Windows Server 2003 R2 in December, 2005 at release 5.2 and is a component of the Windows Vista release as release 6.0 (RTM November, 2006). Windows Server 2008 has release 6.0. Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 include SUA 6.1.
< 1320698506 845234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320698517 391822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't put ! after statements about your slow descent into hell :)
< 1320698554 964484 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is it I can say to make you /ignore me? Trololololol?
< 1320698565 812597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good luck
< 1320698579 346250 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm SSH'd in and installing shit :P
< 1320698582 841325 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work great to me.
< 1320698593 297831 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320698607 438070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought you had to use the original setup program to install components in cygwin?
< 1320698618 107500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what command line program do you use then
< 1320698624 885725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The setup program supports GUIless operation.
< 1320698626 339380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just painful.
< 1320698629 38636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1320698641 918490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, yeah, it works great until you run any shell script ever, or run into one of its numerous integration problems, or it just plain breaks.
< 1320698645 645390 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using setup.exe
< 1320698650 338291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or you realise how absolutely friggin' ANCIENT every piece of software it comes with is.
< 1320698661 42714 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GCC 4.5 is good enough *shrugs*
< 1320698677 658171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc 4.5 is fairly new
< 1320698678 31815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's one piece of software. (It was gcc 3 not long ago, btw.)
< 1320698767 477792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww shit, SLIM is unmaintained
< 1320698769 776023 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a hell of a lot more up to date than MSYS :P
< 1320698788 207136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So relevant :P
< 1320698849 963371 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now time to run a configure script huzzah :P
< 1320698931 324200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1320698954 491735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have fun waiting
< 1320698958 880970 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's time GMP's configure :P
< 1320698963 557201 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm betting ... 20 minutes.
< 1320699086 395399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have I mentioned that the POSIX subsystem makes the shell run only very slightly slower than Linux? :)
< 1320699087 729608 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :minutes, hours, days, years, who knows... I doubt anyone's watched it to the end yet :P
< 1320699162 422457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do I HAVE the POSIX subsystem? Doesn't seem so!
< 1320699186 758090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could download Ultimate quicker than waiting for Cygwin to run a configure script :)
< 1320699221 351321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My Windows. It is legal.
< 1320699232 210164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Legally shitty
< 1320699240 726857 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All legal Windows is legally shitty.
< 1320699248 631564 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could convince Gates to give you a copy for free quicker than waiting for Cygwin
< 1320699269 170255 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still configurin'!
< 1320699273 493261 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's chuggin' away!
< 1320699280 685723 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you could meet Jobs and have *him* buy you a copy even quicker
< 1320699313 90087 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Necromancy: Faster than Cygwin™
< 1320699318 961118 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE
< 1320699326 905788 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5:25
< 1320699331 252351 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just saying that to make us stop goading
< 1320699356 888046 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1320699360 904823 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in two weeks/months/years/something we'll see a " DONE" and have no idea what you're talking about
< 1320699376 323538 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please hold while I install make :P
< 1320699521 901898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to compute a lot of SHA-1 hashes with sha1sum; I'm running 4 sha1sum processes in parallel, what number of args should I pass to each sha1sum to overcome the fork/etc. overhead?
< 1320699531 417924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that passing too many to one is a waste of time because it'll compute them sequentially
< 1320699598 705159 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how quickly does each item finish?
< 1320699609 52065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha1sum is pretty much instant :P
< 1320699610 333732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : how do u make uploader comments
< 1320699625 566778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's… somehow impressively worse than the normal YouTube standard
< 1320699644 953430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ time sha1sum $(find /usr -type f -print | head -n 1) >/dev/null
< 1320699645 240187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m0.008s
< 1320699645 293099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ time sha1sum $(find /usr -type f -print | head -n 16) >/dev/null
< 1320699645 293267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m0.030s
< 1320699645 293377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ time sha1sum $(find /usr -type f -print | head -n 64) >/dev/null
< 1320699646 5429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m0.047s
< 1320699648 55198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ time sha1sum $(find /usr -type f -print | head -n 128) >/dev/null
< 1320699650 69822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m0.118s
< 1320699652 34199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Does that help
< 1320699672 236460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking maybe 16 to each process?
< 1320699686 691581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that seems too low, maybe 32
< 1320699691 128950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which adds a really tiny amount to the runtime
< 1320699696 618634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0.003s)
< 1320699703 821641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, even 64 only takes 0.047s
< 1320699721 64591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there's an easy way to measure
< 1320699722 529022 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fork/exec overhead is much less than a millisecond
< 1320699740 990315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh yeah, but the scheduler isn't gonna like millions of new processes a second :P
< 1320699757 360246 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a simple test run (once :P) with starting thousands of gcc processes on an empty file (which actually also does something), got about 1ms per execution then iirc
< 1320699792 135 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm, not all at the same time of course, started them sequentially
< 1320699887 340984 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, by default, Apache runs everything as the same user, right?  I seem to remember that it's usually a bad idea to change this.
< 1320699967 37766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m35.221s
< 1320699967 294833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for n=64
< 1320699982 431038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You're writing things as an Apache module...?
< 1320700006 763725 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, but I might want to run CGI scripts as different users.
< 1320700034 206320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Have them communicate with daemons.
< 1320700053 775987 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like it might be a good idea.
< 1320700091 210522 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 35s? :) that's like ... half the time you spent explaining the problem to me and I spent thinking about it?
< 1320700098 269893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m20.968s
< 1320700098 390252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=64 again
< 1320700101 919293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, this is on a subset of the data
< 1320700105 597201 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1320700108 703703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries with n=1.
< 1320700134 174513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same time
< 1320700140 306099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My CPU isn't getting pegged at all, I think I need more processes than CPUs
< 1320700165 155971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying n=1, j=128.
< 1320700167 701963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18s.
< 1320700180 409654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying n=1, j=8192 :P
< 1320700185 791563 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you currently have fewer processes than CPUs?
< 1320700191 249056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally my CPU's going at 50%.
< 1320700194 333348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: For this job, yes.
< 1320700203 359888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's slightly worse... so more processes aren't helping here.
< 1320700209 875549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries n=32, j=8192.
< 1320700210 380911 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not pegging the cpu, how about a larger n? maybe you're just not seeing wasted time on your cpu meter
< 1320700226 961115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, n=32 j=8192 gets me 6 seconds
< 1320700275 130107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=128, j=8192 gets me 5 seconds.
< 1320700293 648396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=512, j=8192 gets me 6 seconds. OK, I think I want to lower j now...
< 1320700354 822295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, n=128, j=128 gets me 4 seconds.
< 1320700382 490181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=64 j=128 gets me 3 seconds 8D
< 1320700392 28144 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, annoyingly trivial problem made hard to get right/fast for the wrong reasons
< 1320700392 556311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=32 j=128 is slightly worse.
< 1320700402 655811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What, this one?
< 1320700412 56217 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2,7,11,42,231
< 1320700426 261081 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hindered by sha1sum not wanting to implement the whole making a workqueue for its arguments and parallelizing over cpus to distribute work evenly
< 1320700439 419366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=64, j=64 is slightly worse than n=64, j=128...
< 1320700441 268002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Right :P
< 1320700444 510211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configurin' PCRE!
< 1320700474 216737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think 2.6-2.8 seconds to calculate the sha1sums for 16384 files ain't bad.
< 1320700492 345972 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xargs -P (or whatever you're using) can't do the fair distribution without requiring a fork/exec for each file - because it obviously doesn't want to integrate any closer with the things it starts
< 1320700494 759643 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there no ready-made pcre package for cygwin?
< 1320700503 272106 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I need a MinGW one.
< 1320700538 671757 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, supply of MinGW libraries is quite bad :(
< 1320700538 795335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: find ... -type f | wc -l is the fastest it can be, right?
< 1320700564 220048 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMP and PCRE are all I need (for now), so hopefully I'm not in hell just yet :P
< 1320700571 863500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, I just realised that Kitten could actually help you there X-D
< 1320700578 681797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its package manager, that is.
< 1320700585 597317 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean something like wc --files0-from=- -l?
< 1320700593 553368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no inherent reason individual packages couldn't support architectures that Kitten itself can't run on.
< 1320700603 99885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could install packages with the MinGW cross compiler.
< 1320700610 996695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: X-D
< 1320700622 828491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't care about that :P
< 1320700644 702114 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, you mean just counting the number of files?
< 1320700667 575311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah. It completed fast enough, though.
< 1320700676 70466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, if my incredibly rough calculations are correct, it'll take 30 seconds to do this.
< 1320700680 166885 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, there is some overhead involved in printing the whole file names and just counting the newlines... but you'd need a lot of files to notice :)
< 1320700684 362917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... yay.
< 1320700705 70277 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2:46! That's ... within 5 minutes :P
< 1320700708 752285 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want inter-process deforestation
< 1320700721 133517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :find: `/home/elliott/.gvfs': Permission denied
< 1320700721 291780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on find, you're /root/
< 1320700723 712779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can access /anything
< 1320700724 590195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/
< 1320700733 771519 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :root_squash?
< 1320700774 221518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: ?
< 1320700798 593377 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I've got Apache, and I want to code in Perl.  That probably means using mod_perl, right?
< 1320700843 473622 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If /home is on nfs, and the nfs export has root_squash enabled,
< 1320700843 605025 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not, write a perl interpreter in mod_rewrite instead
< 1320700850 514400 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh here we go, I'll time autoreconf :P
< 1320700859 445728 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nfs server interprets a client saying "I am root" as "I am nobody".
< 1320700881 314640 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is supposed to be a security feature.
< 1320700906 403309 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, a client that can claim "I am root" could also claim "I am elliott".
< 1320700908 783509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320700914 852102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320700917 257039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No.
< 1320700935 702752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Advantage of this pegging my CPU: It finishes quickly. Disadvantage of this peggnig my CPU: It freezes my system.
< 1320700951 207547 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoreconf: 1:40
< 1320700954 463145 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: got any better ideas?
< 1320700969 74279 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: freezing the rest of your system is its way of telling you it's doing its job
< 1320700976 60831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You mentioned CGIs earlier, what happened to those, anyway?
< 1320700989 596493 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured mod_perl might be just as easy, or easier, and slightly faster.
< 1320700999 317847 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If CGI is easier, I probably should go with CGI.
< 1320701084 605799 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! use computer-generated imagery to make it *look* like you're running perl without you actually doing it
< 1320701092 520684 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you receive my explanation of what I meant saying "root_squash"?
< 1320701096 566370 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius :P
< 1320701099 439361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Nope.
< 1320701121 754524 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If /home is on nfs, and the nfs export has root_squash enabled,the nfs server interprets a client saying "I am root" as "I am nobody".
< 1320701139 37165 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is supposed to be a security feature. OTOH, a client that can claim "I am root" could also claim "I am elliott".
< 1320701163 78833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: FastCGI is what's popular nowadays in most ecosystems, either that or proxying a full HTTP server written in the language; consult your framework's documentation for the recommended deployment scenario
< 1320701163 131313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1320701186 418942 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Framework... am I supposed to have one of those?
< 1320701188 548351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looks like the freezes come in waves :P
< 1320701233 764908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: If not, then you should already know what your deployment scenario looks like. Frankly I think you should learn more before jumping into something this complex, since you don't appear to have much experience with web stuff.
< 1320701293 18860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: sha1sum: /proc/804/task/817/ns/ipc: Invalid argument
< 1320701306 232806 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your argument is invalid
< 1320701307 149177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, always safe to read files in /proc, right? :P
< 1320701321 137933 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm not familiar with the term "deployment scenario", and I also just know "framework" as meaning "a bunch of software that helps you do something", so... conclude what you will.
< 1320701335 577918 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /proc/sys/read_this_to_poweroff :P
< 1320701350 686219 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading should be safe... I guess :)
< 1320701365 15286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I gather Catalyst is the most popular thing around Perl parts.
< 1320701374 606021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't quote me on that.
< 1320701382 670203 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there... a similarly popular thing around Python parts?
< 1320701393 177173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I believe you said you were using Perl?
< 1320701403 841465 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reading can definitely have side effects: had a system where you had to read the temperature sensor (from /proc/acpi/) to make the bios update the fan speed based on the current temperature
< 1320701404 670943 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually started writing any P code.
< 1320701421 166723 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which, of course, means "language for a programming language whose name starts with P".)
< 1320701439 137234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: OK, I'm terminating this and excluding /proc, /sys, /dev and /tmp :P
< 1320701534 699857 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, maybe I can read some CGI tutorial.
< 1320701535 858203 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the same thing could trigger a bug that goes boom if you try to read from the wrong widget
< 1320701540 240394 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say something mixes up "poke this to read the temperature" and "poke this to reboot" :P
< 1320701588 716661 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think the primary reason to skip /proc would be that it has annoying special files, like pipes and links into the rest of the file system
< 1320701589 715939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let's try this again :P
< 1320701671 306078 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something like ScriptAlias except not bothering to alias anything?
< 1320701673 771190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does uniq have an option to ignore the first N fields, but not all fields beyond the first N?
< 1320701683 755163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Have I mentioned you shouldn't use Apache yet?
< 1320701686 652755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also e.g. sha1sum on /dev/sda might be a bit annoying :)
< 1320701720 264536 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you may have, but at this point, I don't know how easy it would be to switch.
< 1320701725 898571 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use cut/awk before uniq?
< 1320701733 862684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You've written 0 lines of code.
< 1320701734 929091 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would probably be... really easy, since the only thing I've actually put work into is the Postgres database.
< 1320701735 890985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, uniq should not have the option at all
< 1320701752 871497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Except I need the field data after, duh
< 1320701767 557215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to /uniquify/ based on only the first field, but I need the data after that too
< 1320701782 920511 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, annoying
< 1320701791 98537 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just remove Apache, and possibly also remove phpPgAdmin, since phpPgAdmin has nearly outlived its usefulness.
< 1320701840 60835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth are you using a web interface to the DB
< 1320701854 36636 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's pretty.
< 1320701855 790488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write a few INSERT statements, that way you're not fucked if you have to recreate it too
< 1320701869 574899 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many rows do you think this database contains?
< 1320701875 311905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1320701877 373419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/INSERT/CREATE TABLE/
< 1320701885 343150 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more like it.
< 1320701899 278261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you're going to have to learn SQL anyway to interface with it.
< 1320701911 194991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a large time investment in itself, of course...
< 1320701915 534182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as it's practically a profession unto its own.
< 1320701921 504047 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.  And I *am* using psql every so often.
< 1320701927 226749 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I *am* already more or less familiar with SQL.
< 1320701985 815037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I can write SELECT and INSERT queries =/= I am familiar with the relational model, how NULL works, how to do complex joins, how to get foreign keys right, how to use stored procedures, ...
< 1320702007 476476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you at least know how to parameterise queries without string concatenation and escaping functions.
< 1320702158 721608 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *am* familiar with the relational model.  I think.  And joins seem easy enough, though I've forgotten how outer joins work.
< 1320702164 891044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Woo, eight and a half minutes later it finishes
< 1320702174 153085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Consider me fully reassured...
< 1320702194 533538 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: congratulations
< 1320702260 248558 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then foreign keys, those seem simple enough.  Use a foreign key whenever a row needs to refer to another entity.  Use CASCADE when CASCADE is appropriate, use DELETE when DELETE is appropriate, use SET DEFAULT when SET DEFAULT is appropriate, use NO ACTION when you don't know what's appropriate.
< 1320702292 538374 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then stored procedures... those aren't the same as functions, are they.  Though I (re-)learned how to create triggers today.
< 1320702318 272833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh great, xargs doesn't actually synchronise the output, so there's a bunch of incomplete lines and shit
< 1320702390 187272 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh... I've seen that too, I could've told you before letting it churn for 10 minutes if I'd thought of it :P
< 1320702421 793454 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A mathematician's relational model: A table is a set of tuples.  Given two tables, you can take their union or Cartesian product.  Given one table, you can take subsets and projections.  Done.)
< 1320702458 395521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Of course there's also the very high probability you don't even want a relational database, but whatever
< 1320702478 565206 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But relational databases are nature's solution!  God gave them to us!
< 1320702479 757861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I wonder if GNU parallel does the same
< 1320702513 291084 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, there is also a high probability you don't really want a NoSQL data dumpbin, too.
< 1320702517 777462 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe it's something else that jinxes it, tee?
< 1320702578 597025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Naturally.
< 1320702592 325715 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How did you get xargs to run jobs in parallel? Special xargs edition?
< 1320702594 823458 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm about to mention is probably such a common problem that everyone but me has a solution to it.  }:)
< 1320702600 809003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yes, the fancy-pants GNU edition.
< 1320702602 911295 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the clever folks that have built this should have made it work, right? because they're clever (right?)
< 1320702627 916335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: xargs is the last element of my pipeline.
< 1320702647 883023 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My manpage doesn't document -j for xargs, or yield any hits for parallel and background...
< 1320702648 861556 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a .vimrc file on one machine.  I want it to be on every machine.  Ideally, I could just edit one copy of it and everything else would change to match.
< 1320702651 645573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: -P
< 1320702666 831038 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks.
< 1320702668 193830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Re SQL vs. NoSQL vs. ...: I would suspect tswett would be best off with simple object persistence; likely his data set is much smaller than memory, too.
< 1320702691 435552 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*):S(~(*)*:S(
< 1320702691 564606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)S~:^):^
< 1320702701 341196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least most people generally want object persistence when they think they want an SQL database.
< 1320702717 155858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Keep it in a VCS repository, put it on GitHub/whatever, pull from each machine.
< 1320702726 63162 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heyyyyyoooooo got me some OS X.
< 1320702746 464541 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL databases are a way to implement object persistence, although most likely not the one associated with least pain when implementing.
< 1320702754 279714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Or if you want something less fancy, rsync, but you'll need your own server and you'll have to be careful about modifying it from two places at once.
< 1320702788 603787 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's something SQL people already invented transactions for.
< 1320702810 343500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Sure, they work as a backend, but "using an SQL database" through an automatic persistence facility where you don't even see the SQL isn't what most people think of when they say "using an SQL database". Also, the impedance mismatch makes it a pain. But you do get some nice advantages; a well-optimised and robust implementation, transactions, ...
< 1320702829 16542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People want all the guarantees SQL databases offer without the actual "relational SQL database" part :P
< 1320702833 151792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : And that's something SQL people already invented transactions for.
< 1320702836 849145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this in response to?
< 1320702857 833385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you still on SQL or did you go back to it?
< 1320702869 543833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When were we previously on SQL?
< 1320702889 385701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postgres. I guess you went back to it.
< 1320702890 127781 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Reponse to "you'll need your own server and you'll have to be careful about modifying it from two places at once."
< 1320702910 917324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/m3jns/on_the_most_fundamental_level_what_is_a_computer/
< 1320702914 107111 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so the less fancy way is more work? :)
< 1320702918 568146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *are* computers? We just don't know.
< 1320702932 66431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Merging > locking
< 1320702932 799222 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it's less fancy as in uglier...
< 1320702935 39940 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can feel the pain of auto-generated SQL queries for complex object models...
< 1320702939 480959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: You're not a CVS person, are you? :-)
< 1320702954 809073 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know cvs, subversion and git.
< 1320702955 101616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Less fancy what?
< 1320702955 885726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK this is right up our alley and half the answers are misleading.
< 1320702965 539186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To add to this, it is an open problem (known as the Church-Turing thesis)"
< 1320702977 323325 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And transactions don't necessarily mean locking the whole table.
< 1320702977 955947 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reply to "Or if you want something less fancy, rsync, ..."
< 1320702994 107177 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the *most* fundamental level?  I guess a computer is one of the components of the universe's wavefunction or something...
< 1320702994 939815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yep
< 1320703002 924801 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If queries are independent on the same table, they are still run in parallel, even updates.
< 1320703009 493324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, how do you propose to implement transactional config file modification??
< 1320703020 94217 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merging already done by the SQL system.
< 1320703023 30880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're saying every config file should be an SQL database running on a server or something.
< 1320703052 294528 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, config file, sounds like something you usually don't update in day-to-day operation.
< 1320703067 592522 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"static" is probably an excellent name for a directory containing CGI scripts.
< 1320703070 200456 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't really need transactions on it, or a database...
< 1320703089 968380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: ...that's good, because nobody said config files should be databases...
< 1320703097 883140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was telling tswett how to synchronise config files across multiple machines sanely.
< 1320703106 384773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is wrong. The Church-Turing thesis is just that, a thesis, not a problem: it *states* that computation simply means "what Turing machines and equivalents do"."
< 1320703109 269838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone nitpick.
< 1320703110 64632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a VCS or rsync, and then I said why the former is preferable (multiple independent modifications, for one).
< 1320703114 386191 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, use a blob in a singleton table...
< 1320703127 494520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: ...why do you think a database is assumed here?
< 1320703130 681195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about ~/.vimrc!
< 1320703131 323859 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any statement can be thought of as a question.
< 1320703165 939880 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems I missed the context then.
< 1320703196 423237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's interleaved discussions for you.
< 1320703200 152192 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just jumped on it when you claimed that SQL is likely not the solution and then talked about concurrent updates.
< 1320703230 548790 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :.vimrc sounds like a fine thing to put into $VCS_OF_YOUR_CHOICE
< 1320703251 982402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was talking about SQL likely not being suited for a different thing :P
< 1320703301 321020 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREATE TABLE vimrc ...
< 1320703315 484001 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should lop off one of this server's domain names.  Is there an easy way to tell Apache that if the client is asking for remy.s.zbasu.net, just give them a 404?
< 1320703330 672251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320703331 761368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320703359 956560 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Map that virtual host to a non-existing path, maybe?
< 1320703405 497439 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll map it to /dev/null, thereby making some people a little bit angry.
< 1320703427 577772 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're not supposed to use /dev/null!  It's the empty file, not the invalid directory!"
< 1320703437 139507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That probably won't work.
< 1320703438 596239 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But it *is* an invalid directory."
< 1320703451 500967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should email my hosting company telling them I lost my ssh key again.
< 1320703468 418604 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should have kept it in a SQL database so this wouldn't happen!
< 1320703476 564164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The computer died.
< 1320703480 445860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't yet backed up.
< 1320703505 399173 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL servers make it easy to have a replicated server in sync...
< 1320703577 288352 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.  You should have done that.
< 1320703578 269164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I ought to see if I can do that higher-order query thing with acid-state; I've had a vague idea for it for a while and now that object persistence has been brought up...
< 1320703598 900213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ?
< 1320703624 709140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I really just want something as nice as Durus is for Python; distributed persistent STM...
< 1320703630 433867 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320703634 514112 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should have kept it on a replicated synchronous SQL server farmy thing.
< 1320703874 691678 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee.  So far, my CGI scripts work on the server if and only if they do not work on the command line.
< 1320703892 287651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: just write ) or something
< 1320703896 301698 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly feel a little bit like Karkat trying to write a ~ATH program.
< 1320703897 873061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it on the command line, observe it failing
< 1320703903 773440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you have a brilliantly working CGI script
< 1320703904 193205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320704024 525118 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like system(foo) doesn't work in CGI.
< 1320704359 130430 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the script doesn't have access to any executables...
< 1320704393 70909 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha!  cd . works on the server.
< 1320704434 271261 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But /bin/echo doesn't, even though that file exists...
< 1320704531 998192 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This behavior doesn't seem to make sense.  If I run system('/bin/echo albatross'), I get an internal server error.  If I run system('/bin/echo'), my browser attempts to download the page.
< 1320704554 413209 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I comment the line out, it works as expected: I see text.
< 1320704617 506768 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There goes the no-access-to-executables hypothesis.  system('set') doesn't work.
< 1320704709 431894 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :New hypothesis: it works if and only if the command has no output.
< 1320704720 39603 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uaaaaaaaai
< 1320704746 16225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: send headers first
< 1320704747 165552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1320704755 849274 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm doing.
< 1320704775 407263 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This works: http://pastebin.com/TQBvdTNs
< 1320704782 192160 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change "false" to "echo albatross", and it fails.
< 1320704806 108823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't open that now. will look in ~5m
< 1320704832 470404 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! that was some crappety-crap quality, rm -fr Season.5
< 1320704833 546915 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320704848 580162 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320705018 621443 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seasons 6 and 7 too... so it goes
< 1320705106 771962 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pats elliott on the head repeatedly.
< 1320705303 640762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320705591 570813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yep, i was right.
< 1320705597 888791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you're not sending headers correctly
< 1320705603 518175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be terminated with two newlines
< 1320705647 820213 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: print sends a newline implicitly, doesn't it?
< 1320705674 613969 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program *does* output two newlines, so the only potential problem there would seem to be that it's outputting them wrong.
< 1320705686 892152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm pretty sure Python's print omits a newline if the string ends with one.
< 1320705703 121421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, try \r\n\r\n.
< 1320705705 909927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than \n\n.
< 1320705715 530834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sys.stdout.write('blah\r\n\r\n')
< 1320705782 859092 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, it doesn't work.
< 1320705799 194175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug
< 1320705803 269400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catch exceptions, print them
< 1320705804 642569 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/nUVk8zg8
< 1320705808 581853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catch exceptions, print them
< 1320705816 449540 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't throw any exceptions when I run it on the command line.
< 1320705817 867015 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay.
< 1320705839 286983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the command line is a different environment.
< 1320705937 683681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320706073 783185 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://pastebin.com/NZQFH8UA
< 1320706079 209651 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a server error.
< 1320706098 915286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check server log filse
< 1320706100 107612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :files
< 1320706101 927308 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but now the system line isn't causing it.
< 1320706140 797062 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I didn't import sys.
< 1320706146 659196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart.
< 1320706159 399334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION meant an except block around the whole thing, anyway
< 1320706165 873956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the cgi module has an exception handler thing you can activate.
< 1320706179 196872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prints a pretty HTML page.
< 1320706244 360344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yeah, put
< 1320706244 742225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :import cgitb
< 1320706244 794664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cgitb.enable()
< 1320706245 845724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the top.
< 1320706282 149804 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"malformed header from script. Bad header=www-data: test.py"
< 1320706285 570946 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not part of the header...
< 1320706313 310730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is.
< 1320706321 873474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You print the header with sys.stdout.write.
< 1320706327 809474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which prints an exception in the header block.
< 1320706334 111521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception traces make bad HTTP headers.
< 1320706373 36200 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But printing the header isn't causing an error, is it?
< 1320706384 514034 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, cgitb's probably a really good idea.
< 1320706405 502049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : But printing the header isn't causing an error, is it?
< 1320706407 929874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't import sys
< 1320706414 179764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you print the header with sys
< 1320706415 900256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :???????
< 1320706417 994115 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but *now* I've imported sys.
< 1320706448 821481 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm still getting a plain ol' regular error.
< 1320706451 917655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work from the commandline
< 1320706459 930422 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320706472 930520 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320706479 848894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the actual script at this point
< 1320706483 184741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why are you using CGI again
< 1320706508 735063 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it seems easier than mod_perl or mod_python.
< 1320706530 105221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use either of those
< 1320706544 391906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod_python is unmaintained and I think deprecated, and I don't think many people use mod_perl any more
< 1320706556 490208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use RISC OS or QNX, so I guess I'll go for Windows
< 1320706593 392959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use django or bottle or something
< 1320706606 401146 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... right.  Django exists.
< 1320706640 619436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this project is going very well, I see.
< 1320706654 756365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use mod_wsgi
< 1320706663 253934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what everyone does
< 1320706669 717670 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, here's my code right now: http://pastebin.com/8zenkdpF
< 1320706669 989056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Django or Bottle or 
< 1320706675 461584 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives a plain internal server error.
< 1320706683 295055 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log file says, "malformed header from script. Bad header=www-data: test.py".
< 1320706690 741904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does python test.py produce
< 1320706708 737083 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-type: text/plain
< 1320706708 817095 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> whoami
< 1320706709 143173 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett
< 1320706709 892662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `whoami'
< 1320706716 134262 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus a line break after the Content-type line.
< 1320706725 606860 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, a blank one.  irssi eats those.
< 1320706727 210215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1320706729 10988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/howto/deployment/modwsgi/ here you go
< 1320706736 234937 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you infinitely much.
< 1320706754 287852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same applies to Bottle too
< 1320706820 452103 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Django is probably better.
< 1320706894 401123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: oh, and see http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/QuickConfigurationGuide /Delegation to Daemon Processes/
< 1320706899 419035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably want to do that (probably=definitely)
< 1320706904 40788 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320707083 292939 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this mod_wsgi thing?
< 1320707118 182530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Apache module to run WSGI apps.
< 1320707166 233109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Durus is <6000 lines...
< 1320707216 654257 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's WSGI?
< 1320707237 662834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Server_Gateway_Interface
< 1320707314 55646 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320707371 701800 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.  Is that the sort of thing I would use instead of Django, or alongside it, or qué?
< 1320707420 975658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Upon reading https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/howto/deployment/modwsgi/, did you get the idea that Django was hosting documentation for a competitor to it, and saying that's the recommended way to deploy Django...?
< 1320707431 63844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an API that both Django and Apache support.
< 1320707471 12651 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your sarcasm is praiseworthy.  I praise it.
< 1320707472 973364 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320707576 116641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, who knows Latin
< 1320707593 604552 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient romans
< 1320707597 481181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks
< 1320707610 233398 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Latin-1
< 1320707621 4707 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, erm, hmm)
< 1320707643 638656 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can read some Latin and I can kind of dechiper some other Latin.
< 1320707664 292698 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give you a decent guess what the plural of "lusus naturae" is, for example.
< 1320707687 152770 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Namely, "lusus naturae".)
< 1320707698 945854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Great! Wiktionary tells me that "durus" is a Latin adjective meaning "hard, rough (of a touch)"/"harsh (of a taste)"/"hardy, vigorous"/"unyielding, unfeeling, stern"/"oppressive, severe"; what's the opposite.
< 1320707706 211235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In Latin, naturally.)
< 1320707711 349703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION HAS A LIBRARY TO NAME.
< 1320707747 362842 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: name it bob
< 1320707754 432021 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you want the opposite word to *mean*?  Soft to the touch?  Gentle?  Weak?  Pliable?
< 1320707759 194336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, mollis looks close: "soft, delicare to the touch"/"pliant, flexible"/"mild"/"tender, weak"
< 1320707779 990721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ALL OF THE ABOVE!
< 1320707785 123077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: "mollis" is sort of an ugly word?
< 1320707790 442703 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that looks like a pretty darn good word.
< 1320707799 592839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay fine I'll call it mollis.
< 1320707804 623812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/delicare/delicate/
< 1320707805 359035 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, what do you think of "lentus"?
< 1320707819 274093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sticky, tenacious"/"slow, sluggish"
< 1320707824 357205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"indifferent, phlegmatic"
< 1320707827 269672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY LIBRARY IS NONE OF THESE THINGS
< 1320707846 738704 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with 'bob'?
< 1320707854 80349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What's Bob in Latin
< 1320707856 310802 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use a different language, perhaps.  Mol, mole, muelle, mou...
< 1320707863 947149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, mollis even names durus as an antonym on the page.
< 1320707865 188211 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're both looking at exactly the same documents, aren't we.
< 1320707874 145742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that quite thoroughly likely.
< 1320707889 652387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to say I won't be going with the Portugese translation.
< 1320707893 591559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gese/guese/
< 1320708060 58080 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with the Lojban translation!
< 1320708073 277039 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ranti
< 1320708158 601882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaah.
< 1320708236 79857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hmm, "molli" is a bit nicer. But then it'd be a dative or ablative singular!!!!!
< 1320708256 256227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would RUIN the PURITY.
< 1320708279 926850 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weich
< 1320708318 169692 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mola pehmeä morbido svak blando
< 1320708329 547218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally.
< 1320708338 174316 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVAK
< 1320709517 286525 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Django has apps.  It comes with authentication and stuff.
< 1320709640 485818 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1320709646 224522 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320709646 278141 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320709740 584368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi tswett Warrigal ihope.
< 1320709844 867360 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you're referring to me by--wait, how old are you now?  Are you an adult now?
< 1320709854 370392 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you're not.
< 1320709857 396496 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're at most 16.
< 1320709887 673327 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid that elliott suffers from a rare form of dyslexia.
< 1320709895 949816 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is, in fact, swapping the digits in his age.
< 1320709906 258090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* tswett (~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope) has joined #esoteric
< 1320709924 435356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You evidently have three names. It is the only thing I can conclude.
< 1320709941 257618 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1320709955 368918 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :His preferred name is one of those pieces of uncertainty that surround him
< 1320709961 282598 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so he's actually St Atom 61?
< 1320709964 693730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And I believe I'm a legal adult in Scotland, but not here.
< 1320709973 849942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is relevant only because I googled it and Scotland came up.
< 1320709986 123654 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess depending on the place, I go by tswett, Warrigal, or both adiosToreador and Tavros Nitram.
< 1320710058 327887 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Neat trick. You can become a legal adult without leaving whatever-the-fuck-you-call-the-UK.
< 1320710069 16305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call the UK the UK.
< 1320710097 893697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I somewhat suspect it's about where you live, not your location.
< 1320710099 89049 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess those are just the online handles I've been using recently.  There's also uorygl, which I stopped using recently, and Tanner, the name I use when looking at something...
< 1320710099 414882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a bit hard to call it a country... Seeing as that would be England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
< 1320710107 879972 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er.  Someone.
< 1320710192 33928 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there's another online handle you're recently using
< 1320710247 863466 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, right.  conduitController.
< 1320710275 479954 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: call me whatever the fuck you want, as long as people know who you're referring to.
< 1320710285 69503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Okay, whatever the fuck you want.
< 1320710311 332447 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am ninety-nine point nine nine nine percent sure you will stop referring to me by that name within the week.
< 1320710316 182271 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah.
< 1320710337 941150 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, don't call me "Mister Snuggles".  People won't know who you're talking about.  Don't call me "Ed Murphy" either.
< 1320710347 672002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What does list-tries have over TrieMap... oh, it predates it by several months.
< 1320710360 499457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Okay, Ed Murphy.
< 1320710373 370387 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should attempt to understand finger trees, I think
< 1320710382 513361 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320710401 561311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/monoid-fingertree.html
< 1320710412 859005 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, ty
< 1320710419 753963 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, here we go.  Call me Pupa.
< 1320710426 207112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No.
< 1320710448 662470 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or call me "tswett, you should shut the fuck up, you've had too much caffeine lately".
< 1320710498 977273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble distinguishing your behaviour from normal :)
< 1320710507 412446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you always have this much caffeine?
< 1320710523 764323 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1320710538 198674 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, elliott.  What do I do in this channel on most days?
< 1320710550 83013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not talk, but I presume that's because you don't actually pay attention to it.
< 1320710567 160850 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1320710593 130920 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen the .. syntax in extensions to record stuff
< 1320710617 227541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: It's a placeholder.
< 1320710632 314398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Note how it isn't code.
< 1320710635 943504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we want the annotations to fulfill"
< 1320710680 243836 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is too tired for this
< 1320710701 637204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what you always say.
< 1320710795 762238 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no desire to use global mutable variables, the ReaderT stuff should be sufficient I think
< 1320710825 683864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Monad transformers over IO are ugly. You're binding a C API, so you're going to have to do a lot worse than global variables.
< 1320710833 784652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They won't be exposed from outside the package, so it's quite irrelevant.
< 1320710860 764272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically you're saying you'd rather infect all user API code with an implementation detail, than use one of the provided facilities intended for binding to C APIs.
< 1320711023 530259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: But *shrug* your code
< 1320711031 360902 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO to make a global variable is intended to be used like that?
< 1320711103 10723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO was originally part of the FFI addendum to accomplish things like that. See http://hackage.haskell.org/package/safe-globals for a way to hide the ugly.
< 1320711186 159652 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose something stupid like multiple invocations of the library.. somehow
< 1320711244 656608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's impossible.
< 1320711254 625403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the AW API supports that.
< 1320711261 48118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which we've established it doesn't, because it does awful global things.
< 1320711335 90059 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hypothetical library that does
< 1320711342 767754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have one of those.
< 1320711357 836569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are you trying to write one binding that works with multiple hypothetical APIs without changing the implementation??
< 1320711368 67791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, why not just make one Haskell library that binds to every C library ever without changing.
< 1320711371 991411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwim :: IO a
< 1320711377 109032 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I probably should ask just to check that aw_int and the like don't send stuff over the wire
< 1320711424 427602 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does, it would be .. absurd to set every global to a blank variable
< 1320711431 794832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1320711453 603868 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320711462 893375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think you have any idea what you're doing, if you think there's going to be a large number of globals, or if you think "blank variable" means anything.
< 1320711486 985288 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C API has a large number of .. global-like things
< 1320711499 522091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes you think you need to reflect those in Haskell?
< 1320711505 34581 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm just hoping they're stored locally, rather than on the server
< 1320711512 99037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was suggesting these for internal use, because that's what you'd talked about earlier.
< 1320711529 3837 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wouldn't, I would just.. I think kmc suggested setting those to a default value every function call
< 1320711544 86303 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the ones that the function call needs modified
< 1320711554 751178 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320711556 710522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it would help if you actually communicated the API issues involved rather than just asking as vague a question as possible.
< 1320711572 485096 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320711600 601934 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Many function calls require setting what the API calls attributes, such as using aw_int_set("AW_TELEPORT_X", 0); before the function call
< 1320711619 639723 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Events also often receive data which you retrieve by, e.g., aw_int("AW_TELEPORT_X")
< 1320711622 882186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling doesn't suggest those quotes should be there.
< 1320711630 461304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look like #defines.
< 1320711639 915714 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, you're right
< 1320711659 408487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Every call has a defined set of parameters, yes? Going by http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/aw_object_add.htm.
< 1320711686 13126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just need to poke each parameter, make the call, and read the parameter result.
< 1320711686 246796 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1320711691 872167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the thread that's making the API calls, etc. etc. etc.)
< 1320711725 833477 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... pretty sure I only need to ensure sequential access
< 1320711736 480529 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than all having to be in the same thread
< 1320711769 115957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: So you want a global lock. Now we'll spend 3 minutes as you convince yourself that these two situations are equivalent.
< 1320711789 998271 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What two situations?
< 1320711799 781115 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was the situation that I was using the global lock for
< 1320711821 764374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: The situation of having one thread making all API calls, and every thread acquiring a lock on each API call.
< 1320711837 385806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also remember that Haskell threads are very cheap, if that's what you're worrying about (tens of thousands at a time is fine).
< 1320711859 72624 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought global lock is easier to implement
< 1320711914 148615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are trivial. Which one you want depends on your situation.
< 1320712081 83092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this code is hard to get a handle on.
< 1320712085 690834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not your thing.)
< 1320712428 666360 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now my machine is simultaneously running Debian (naturalismo), Windows 7, and #1 contender for the "Even Worse than Windows" prize Mac OS X.
< 1320712498 766262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At least OS X doesn't need Cygwin.
< 1320712518 902935 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin in wine on os x? :)
< 1320712748 997161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You should liberate this Python code by porting it to Haskell for me (note: incredibly non-trivial)
< 1320712811 810237 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :first: liberate it from its misery using rm -fr
< 1320712821 536073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's gooooood.
< 1320712841 522544 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :then rewrite in haskell sometime, I might not feel like helping you with that :P
< 1320712917 346387 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, python code can't be good... I'll admit that it can work, but *good*?
< 1320712965 164200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's an ACID STM database with both file-based and network access in less than 6000 lines of code!
< 1320713019 371744 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! haskell has STM built-in! :)
< 1320713036 430611 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or maybe it's a library, w/e
< 1320713036 484231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: um, it's missing the database part.
< 1320713046 334471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc has built-in _in-memory_ STM
< 1320713056 880026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way you can extend that to be file-based or w/e
< 1320713079 959308 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, how can it be hard? I have no knowledge of this being hard!
< 1320713112 206345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you'd have to completely rewrite the ghc stm internals :P
< 1320713115 331586 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't the M refer to memory?
< 1320713122 709039 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for things other than memory stuff, why call it STM?
< 1320713132 342825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's still memory, it's just non-volatile memory
< 1320713139 574600 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: trivial! (given a sufficently smart reader to finish the exercise)
< 1320713141 350557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because you have to have all the database in-RAM in Durus and similar
< 1320713167 177990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think the one thing every expert can agree on is that STM is not trivial :P
< 1320713187 784634 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :their readers are just not sufficiently smart
< 1320713239 37519 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could STM be implemented without compiler support?
< 1320713244 684950 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit potentially inefficiently?
< 1320713281 593286 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they tried putting it in .NET and it was horribly inefficient, don't recall how much compiler support it took
< 1320713286 107931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: trivially
< 1320713325 417043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: tons; the problem is that stm sucks without purity
< 1320713399 47120 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be particularly wrong for me to name a type Object?
< 1320713421 815433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only will people kill you, but they might kill your family too.
< 1320713423 784429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object - not even once.
< 1320713480 896799 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn lenses
< 1320713489 877250 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only assume that lenses make dealing with records easier
< 1320713665 827978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lenses are just Lens whole part = whole -> (part, whole -> part)
< 1320713674 842277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :name :: Person -> (String, String -> Person)
< 1320713685 921020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :name (Person name age email) = (name, \name' -> Person name' age email)
< 1320714056 611951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: ^
< 1320714065 216011 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1320714084 652505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ helper functions for modification, accessing within state monad + template haskell to derive them from a record definition
< 1320714162 835746 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 6000 lines of python, hopefully that's more python than I've ever read before
< 1320714181 432717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, probably not :(
< 1320714263 985824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Actually 5288 (+ 461 lines of mostly boilerplate)
< 1320714290 45556 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly boilerplate? doesn't that apply to the rest of the python code?
< 1320714300 347999 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's all obfuscated python!
< 1320714402 392727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's actually remarkably boilerplate-free :P
< 1320714418 35457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it hard to read, I'm trained to ignore all but every fifth line when reading Python
< 1320714449 126652 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320714454 916893 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1320715178 926223 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320716220 959719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lenses form a category too, I think. And yes that is very good if you need more you could use a Template Haskell code to automatically generate the lens codes for each field.
< 1320716633 531722 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Template Haskell generate Template Haskell?
< 1320716643 991933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I don't think so.
< 1320716671 804421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might be able to fake it.
< 1320716700 38600 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for *Template* Template Haskell!
< 1320716709 475180 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote majestic
< 1320716709 595034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where @remember's are in majestic stereo!
< 1320716717 534021 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong majestic quote, nm
< 1320716788 682918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be some macro system that can do things with a Haskell code. That way you could generate Template Haskell and various other things. (There is C preprocessor but that isn't very good for Haskell.)
< 1320716841 929847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a macro system that could be used to make up do-notation, rather than requiring do-notation built-in to Haskell.
< 1320716955 918724 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was under the impression that quasiquoters take arbitrary strings
< 1320717010 663808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do.
< 1320717033 602259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote majestic
< 1320717033 874243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonycale says: Welcome to #haskell, where your questions are answered in majestic stereo!
< 1320717039 982558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote majestic
< 1320717040 99709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonycale says: Welcome to #haskell, where your questions are answered in majestic stereo!
< 1320717041 110291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote majestic
< 1320717041 343947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where @remember's are in majestic stereo!
< 1320717063 448488 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote template.haskell
< 1320717063 677543 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc says: Can't represent a guarded lambda in Template Haskell
< 1320717065 228814 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote template.haskell
< 1320717065 501360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc says: Cannot desugar this Template Haskell declaration
< 1320717066 367651 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote template.haskell
< 1320717066 603369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc says: Can't represent a guarded lambda in Template Haskell
< 1320717067 457493 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote template.haskell
< 1320717067 699676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc says: Can't represent a guarded lambda in Template Haskell
< 1320717097 41981 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, can't find it *shrug*
< 1320717145 124916 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote majesty
< 1320717145 291286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :malcolm says: I don't believe you need to invoke the full awesome majesty of Template Haskell
< 1320717163 775925 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, imagine the awesome majesty of template template haskell
< 1320717211 281128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320717261 170276 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320717294 218068 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320717341 8925 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that Stanislav probably doesn't like Haskell
< 1320718113 352128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quasiquotes do take arbitrary strings; it is sometimes the problem due to if you are using a Haskell syntax in them, and you have |] in a string or comment; it won't work.
< 1320718300 395001 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you combined Template Haskell with a system of macros that works well, you might be able to make up do-notation and more-notation using that, and possibly such things as anonymous classes, autonumbering, and so on.
< 1320718447 435491 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, Aero was off by default, it's smart about not turning it on on systems without good graphics.
< 1320718617 598366 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320718713 516136 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't more notation your idea?
< 1320718763 52103 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Yes it is. But I mean a more general system that could be used to make up such things, and even things already in Haskell such as do-notation.
< 1320718816 906990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It occurs to me that Stanislav probably doesn't like Haskell
< 1320718821 919752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see comments on nock or urbit post or w/e
< 1320718827 366920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's okay because: stanislav is an idiot!
< 1320718839 470251 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nock? urbit?
< 1320718858 394811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/nock-maxwells-equations-of-software.html
< 1320718859 98966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html
< 1320718860 227541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read in order
< 1320719298 960326 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Nock, I don't quite get ^
< 1320719318 389754 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be meaningless when applied to a cell
< 1320719332 782301 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or is that the point?
< 1320719360 907397 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I see other things with similar stuff
< 1320719367 446134 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess that that's the point
< 1320719600 797971 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, haven't got my thinking brain in, that looks tricky
< 1320719604 202993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: The Urbit post doesn't actually require any understanding of Nock, FWIW
< 1320719619 155869 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now reading the Urbit post
< 1320719623 578963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually done the challenge, but might sometime
< 1320719824 734836 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These C functions, or jets, will take noun arguments and produce noun results. In between, they can do whatever the heck they want - so long as they produce the same result as the actual Nock formula."
< 1320719827 196844 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sounds familiar
< 1320720029 618991 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Mars, SIN is taken to an extreme. Logically, Urbit is a single broadcast network - a single big Ethernet wire. Everyone sees everyone else's packets. "
< 1320720041 586521 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to complain about security, but that's stupid, if you want security, encrypt it
< 1320720111 953184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody tell Sgeo|web how IP routers work.
< 1320720142 25847 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least SIN forces people to realize it
< 1320720404 593388 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Read the whole thing. Haskell fans, you'll know exactly where you can stick your monads."
< 1320720405 352469 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1320720425 366798 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a distinction between monads in general and monadic I/O
< 1320720439 471906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy is hardly an expert
< 1320720441 990742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on Haskell)
< 1320720460 856061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads and monadic IO are regularly conflated even by Haskellers
< 1320720490 896456 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They are?
< 1320720498 713716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not _good_ Haskellers.
< 1320720502 322208 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monadic I/O isn't even fundamentally monadic in any way.
< 1320720509 180118 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a convenience thing.
< 1320720531 593538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's trivial to find a tutorial written by someone good enough at Haskell to write real applications in it that talks about how monads are there to let you isolate IO side-effects.
< 1320720532 747503 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320720533 99390 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320720533 152155 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320720571 895973 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, *tutorials*, sure.
< 1320720589 471109 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morgen comraderies
< 1320720659 379641 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good IO to you.
< 1320720661 211702 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean monad.
< 1320721316 557743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: this is the particular stanislav remark I was directing you to: "Algebraic types and immutability: Yuck. Your Haskellian / type-theoretical mis-spent youth is showing. Actual computers contain rewritable storage and will likely always contain it. This is something to be celebrated, not a set of genitalia to be shamefully hidden behind a Christian fig leaf."
< 1320721339 35707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he then proceeds to link to that stupid land of lisp comic whose own author happens to be a haskell fan :P
< 1320721371 646363 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing someone say that data stores are monads
< 1320721379 638200 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that means precisely
< 1320721531 508133 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" For instance, to write Urbit in Haskell, you would need a Haskell interpreter written in Haskell. "
< 1320721543 29145 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ghc-api etc. count as?
< 1320721560 77224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not homoiconic at all, and practically irrelevant in context
< 1320722079 338651 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to understand FRP
< 1320722135 990131 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Buick "Pimpmobile" Skylark, bereaved from us by the unwavering yet abiding clutches of the sibling forces of time and entropy (and perhaps the recklessness of its owner). Though it met its end in the shrinking confines of a large industrial steel compactor, it will always be remembered as the glorious mechanical steed that it was, matched only by the unbridled power of 150 horses and maybe better cars.
< 1320722212 585161 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Did Conal invent FRP?
< 1320722217 977220 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320722282 714924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: yes? why is this surprising
< 1320722286 64697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FRP was invented by a HUMAN???"
< 1320723584 512426 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be a terrible idea to try to make an FRP version of the AW stuff?
< 1320723796 800917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320723910 329314 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1320723920 888266 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't answer because I don't understand FRP
< 1320723971 640076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep! also because fitting existing C libs to FRP is painful. you would want reactive-banana, and that's way more suited to gui frameworks than network stuff
< 1320724101 667183 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as the library can be hooked into any existing event-based framework "
< 1320724234 63963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: yes, i have used reactive-banana, i am aware of how it functions
< 1320724250 985624 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I didn't know you could put a where clause there
< 1320724318 639001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where
< 1320724369 86202 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/HeinrichApfelmus/reactive-banana/blob/master/reactive-banana-wx/src/Arithmetic.hs line 41
< 1320724429 54800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a declaration
< 1320724432 238959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :declarations have where clauses
< 1320724452 290181 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I thought only top-level declarations could do that
< 1320724689 693964 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is reactive-banana good in general?
< 1320724694 534268 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just for hooking into existing stuff?
< 1320724751 816594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is there but hooking into existing stuff
< 1320724766 431259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't live in a world where your library - opengl, sdl, gtk, whatever - uses frp, do you?
< 1320724837 104091 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, addHandler is provided by reactive-banana
< 1320724890 430366 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, fromAddHandler
< 1320724891 36600 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And newAddHandler
< 1320724963 53555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newAddHandler is not always needed, it is just a helper
< 1320725000 6194 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not quite sure what it does, but I guess its type is IO (EventSource ())?
< 1320725004 142402 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I found The Best Language Ever http://bondi.it.uts.edu.au/
< 1320725013 57550 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has more braces than lisp
< 1320725049 898234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: read the example
< 1320725073 511669 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am
< 1320725094 457362 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, EventSource is application-defined
< 1320725145 744844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: looks cool
< 1320725207 629191 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, fromAddHandler knows to take a ...so, fromAddHandler always takes a pair of AddHandler a, and a -> IO ()
< 1320725226 537715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no
< 1320725263 126975 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-staff.it.uts.edu.au/~cbj/patterns/13012009/ found the bondi examples
< 1320725267 849790 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let cloud = Banks [Bank (Name "Cloud",Accountss [Accounts (AccountName "Qin",Balance 3333.00)],TermDepositss [TermDeposits (TdName "Cloud",MinDeposit 500,Period 1,Rate 3.25)])];;
< 1320725297 589840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look unreasonable
< 1320725331 579219 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what <$ is
< 1320725332 846419 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t <$
< 1320725333 708036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `<$'
< 1320725336 73056 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<$)
< 1320725336 956541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) b. (Functor f) => a -> f b -> f a
< 1320725348 363928 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, that thing
< 1320725354 971551 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($>)
< 1320725355 833429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `$>'
< 1320725360 177628 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo
< 1320725430 158895 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapAccum
< 1320725430 967611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mapAccum'
< 1320725549 276398 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll :: () -> StdGen -> (Reels, StdGen)
< 1320725551 67219 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, why
< 1320725553 80247 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the ()
< 1320725630 232990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1320725678 657474 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/reactive-banana/0.4.3.0/doc/html/Reactive-Banana-Implementation.html this is a little clearer, tbh
< 1320725743 231269 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/reactive-banana/0.4.3.0/doc/html/Reactive-Banana-Model.html when I stop being scared of the scary type, I think
< 1320725765 568753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :model is MUCH clearer
< 1320725777 243980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me
< 1320725794 641414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note how that omits
< 1320725796 440385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :import qualified Reactive.Banana.PushIO as Implementation
< 1320725798 293249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: ^\
< 1320725856 986452 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Implementation has an example though
< 1320725858 488559 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1320725902 165176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read Model. if you can't grok Model you will fail at the lower-level implementation of THE SAME API
< 1320725945 313389 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading
< 1320725960 880206 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems simple so far, and I finally understand Behavior and Event, I think
< 1320726007 174313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :behavior is a signal. Time -> a
< 1320726020 193522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like audio, or mouse position
< 1320726021 481146 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....apply takes a function which itself changes over time?
< 1320726035 151915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :event is a set of one-off occurrences
< 1320726044 759693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a key being pressed
< 1320726054 229800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(Time,a)]
< 1320726134 130325 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of things are Behavior f (a -> b)? An example?
< 1320726188 50316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any behavior constructed with the provided functions that is function-valued
< 1320726461 259797 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any such
< 1320726472 203763 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for making constant values into behaviors
< 1320726504 304215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: see FRP class
< 1320726559 726944 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, stepper, I guess?
< 1320726613 833816 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ...no?
< 1320726703 949311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYHING ENDING -> Behavior
< 1320726705 236795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1320726743 653901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. stepper, accumB
< 1320726751 155937 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of those assume I have events that are functions
< 1320726773 536518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so make them. sheesh
< 1320726773 890291 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah yeah, bad use of "are")
< 1320726973 413720 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, FRPs are Applicative
< 1320727003 641211 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....Not entirely sure if that really helps me
< 1320727046 273822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1320727047 128128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320727051 402805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :behaviors are
< 1320727060 274678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :frp is just "implementation of frp"
< 1320727074 115234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a code organisation tool for model vs implementation
< 1320727080 809552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing semantic
< 1320727168 3096 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ShShould I shy away from Discrete?
< 1320727188 726191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320727361 268501 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the Alternative/MonadPlus instance for Parsec follow the identity law?
< 1320727384 918778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not left identity!
< 1320727393 607061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it right
< 1320727430 693965 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320727504 157662 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter = accumulate ($) 0             (fmap (+1) eventUp              `union` fmap (subtract 1) eventDown)
< 1320727515 27969 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does fmapping onto an Event produce a Behavior?
< 1320727525 276806 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it doesn't follow the right zero law; but some people (myself included) think the right zero law should not be one of them, and only the left zero law and monoid laws should apply.
< 1320727546 614763 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, for MonadPlus. For Alternative, the left zero law is optional too.)
< 1320727550 266133 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should look for accumulate in reactive-banana
< 1320727555 288932 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't see it
< 1320727576 559410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's that from
< 1320727585 698441 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/blog/2011/03/28-essence-frp.html
< 1320727591 653732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that post is old
< 1320727617 604870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :api has changed
< 1320727618 460229 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320727629 373243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's accumB or sth
< 1320727678 12109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is an instance which I believe does follow the identity laws:  instance Alternative IO where { empty = fail []; x <|> y = catch x $ \e -> modifyIOError (\z -> if z == userError [] then e else z) y; };
< 1320727749 831124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It follows the left zero law, too; so you could make it MonadPlus as well if you do not care about the right zero law.
< 1320727814 683164 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that the Gregorian calendar and Gregorian chant are both named after popes but they are two different popes?
< 1320727844 917341 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think my instance follows the laws correctly? If not, please tell me what is wrong with it.
< 1320727966 381575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: in the comments you can see accumukate
< 1320727971 105331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :become accumB
< 1320728142 816186 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1320728354 708527 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4113207/frp-reactive-how-to-use-filtere is this the same package?
< 1320728360 541651 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be the correct parameters to define the Ecclesiastical moon in Swiss Ephemeris? What would be the parameters to define artificial satellites? Are either of these possible?
< 1320728373 890726 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1320728380 942490 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that No was not to you
< 1320728399 752158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: see reative-banana tag
< 1320728616 206289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parameters are: epoch of elements, equinox, mean anomaly at epoch, semi-axis, eccentricity, argument of perihelion, ascending node, inclination, and whether it orbits the Earth or the Sun. Any of these parameters can have T terms where T = (tjd - epoch) / 36525. For example, the intramercurian Vulcan uses:  J1900,JDATE, 252.8987988 + 707550.7341 * T, 0.13744, 0.019, 322.212069+1670.056*T, 47.787931-1670.056*T, 7.5
< 1320728638 851801 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe I should see things in Behaviors and Events as "trapped" (bad terminology, I know), in an Applicative, and I use <$> and <*> the way I might with a monad
< 1320728648 137077 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No do notation though
< 1320728748 340053 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: A monad is really applicative too, but the way it is programmed in Haskell doesn't make it do that normally.
< 1320728788 306270 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I know that monads are applicatives, but not all applicatives are monads
< 1320729231 130263 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320730439 802742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1320730442 145931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :durus, reveal your secrets
< 1320730507 97269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Alternative
< 1320730507 210530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Applicative f => Alternative f where
< 1320730507 329319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    empty :: f a
< 1320730507 381543 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (<|>) :: f a -> f a -> f a
< 1320730993 336023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION very briefly considers demanding Sgeo|web write his code for him.
< 1320731128 977617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: bondi looks very interesting.
< 1320731139 86244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit light on documentation..
< 1320731326 904684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :demanding sgeo|web to write your code: a good idea????????
< 1320731484 8505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you might like my code, it will be a good code (once it writ)
< 1320731500 251021 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oH???
< 1320731550 413559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes: a fully-ACID object persistence store with STM semantics
< 1320731574 444933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr: write program with standard STM transactional semantics, get reliable, durable file-based storage
< 1320731596 822343 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1320731601 488985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :later: transparent operation on datasets larger than memory (perhaps), server support
< 1320731657 257639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: now, guess what language has an existing, industrial-strength, corporate-backed, open-source, performant ~5500 line implementation of all this already
< 1320731660 835663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(do not cheat; good luck guessing)
< 1320731672 756036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, including full transactional STM semantics and server support)
< 1320731677 688222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok not the larger-than-memory stuff but w/e)
< 1320731742 553177 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too late, I cheated hours ago
< 1320731749 528716 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by briefly looking at the chat back then
< 1320731758 288771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bad person
< 1320731761 410645 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1320731772 537572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but seriously, who is gifted with all that knowledge and then forced to write python code :(
< 1320731808 432748 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad people
< 1320731813 517225 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1320731816 131960 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad people forced
< 1320731823 16523 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel bad for whoever was forced
< 1320731910 704754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://sprunge.us/NjEY
< 1320731915 660595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the kind of thing i have to base my code on :P
< 1320731969 971508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320731995 954209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ve have to lots of python recently because schoole (ha) ha()
< 1320732005 822318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: incidentally i'd like to just use acid-state but it has severe limitations for me :(
< 1320732010 779485 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320732018 35406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to declare the transactions on your data-type upfront
< 1320732026 153636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't remove them or anything, only add
< 1320732028 739029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not compositional
< 1320732050 50918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the only way to fix that with acid-state's model would be if you could serialise functions
< 1320732248 563872 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320732260 400314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but yeah... hopefully it will be good???
< 1320732274 777840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopeuflly
< 1320732343 583011 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320732363 119163 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320732398 406463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it would be nice if i could find a way to benefit from sharing... like, you don't want adding an element to a huge map to write out the huge map again in the transaction, you'd like to just write out the additional stuff and have a pointer back
< 1320732400 395857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to see
< 1320732413 757131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be especially nice if i can do that for every structure, not rewriting each structure for this
< 1320733041 508190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gdtodntihgt monqey
< 1320733053 699441 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodotnighte
< 1320733054 353232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goudnihgt
< 1320733077 676824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do: read acid-state's Log.hs and things, read durus, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
< 1320733080 948014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320733861 973809 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320734080 327444 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the ring of sets normalizable?
< 1320734210 378993 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not.
< 1320734556 710336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320734886 588722 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320737075 524682 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320737619 749674 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320738281 391679 :CraZzYboY90!~remiix90@ip-109-84-0-6.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320738296 405974 :CraZzYboY90!~remiix90@ip-109-84-0-6.web.vodafone.de PART :#esoteric
< 1320738583 118762 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol I crashed x
< 1320739021 405353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320739947 504283 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320741221 745250 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1320742606 701789 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320742711 100541 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320742711 449492 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320742711 501955 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320743145 672821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: BTW, Aero was off by default, it's smart about not turning it on on systems without good graphics. <-- nice
< 1320743529 245234 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it only enables Aero if your WEI is 3 or more.
< 1320743534 280857 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Windows Experience Index.)
< 1320743559 128977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the global WEI or the graphics one?
< 1320743565 438201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former doesn't really make sense
< 1320743593 21772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all my desktop scores 2.5 due to a slow hdd for windows 7. The rest of the components score 7.5-7.8
< 1320743594 999459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the base score.
< 1320743599 771270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320743608 348600 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not sure.
< 1320743632 209725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember it areo was on or not after install. It is turned off now though, and with windows classic theme on
< 1320743809 522847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Windows-Experience-Index-Understand-and-improve-your-computers-performance-in-Windows-Vista "Base score: 3.0 to 3.9 .. Windows Aero will typically be enabled automatically on the computer."
< 1320743833 366821 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might well have changed the logic on seven, though.
< 1320743855 654548 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, the scores themselves go up to eleven^W7.9 now.
< 1320743887 615542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what was the old max value?
< 1320743961 547276 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.9 in Vista.
< 1320743976 868254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange they didn't make it an even 6.0
< 1320743992 561870 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also starts at 1.0 and not zero.
< 1320743996 255062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320745287 892598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving
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< 1320745841 155128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1320745847 154678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320746233 20808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if I'm well-rested or tired.
< 1320746249 651361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 6 WHOLE HOURS OF SLEEP in a row so I should be way more rested than usual.
< 1320746266 460854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I feel like dog shit. This is probably because I only got 6 hours of sleep still.
< 1320746367 324746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320746384 952563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a zombie.
< 1320746425 744785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't slept well either. And I have to drive today.
< 1320746427 618813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh.
< 1320746435 999284 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did I mentioned that a deer hit my car. Yes, that car I just bought to replace my old car not too long ago.
< 1320746445 282417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's always fun. Driving on no sleep is great.
< 1320746450 971554 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an adventure!
< 1320746458 535701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slept some, just not as much as I would want to
< 1320746463 795329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 6 hours instead of 8
< 1320746540 51253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: besides I will be picking up another guy on the way to university, since we live in the same town and study the same stuff at university we usually travel together to save money.
< 1320746546 849293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it is my parents car
< 1320746552 290391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :parents'
< 1320746670 959714 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun.
< 1320746684 372366 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a speeding ticket in my parent's car when I was borrowing it to drive when I didn't have a car.
< 1320746694 769055 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few weeks ago.
< 1320746712 53761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, lately I've been doing that 4-hour nap thing.
< 1320746716 173631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not voluntarily
< 1320746736 202680 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just happens that I'll go to bed at like 10 AM and wake up at 2 AM unable to go back to sleep until the sun comes up
< 1320746828 866349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I doubt I will get a speeding ticket.
< 1320746836 628732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had problems keeping the right speed
< 1320746891 889040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one bit of recent misfortune I could have prevented, I suppose.
< 1320746948 927095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides it is a Fiat (though a large station wagon one), so not exactly a fast car anyway. And although there is no automatic speed thingy, the terrain is kind of hilly so you need to adjust speed all the time anyway, hard to forget about speed then.
< 1320747117 2799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's usually not that I forget speed it's just that I don't consider the same speeds to be fast that other people seem to
< 1320747131 955665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1320747139 175372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are mountainous roads where I live and I still drive like a madman. :P
< 1320747140 884727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it say on the sign what the speed limit is
< 1320747145 370597 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes.
< 1320747151 256011 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's beside the point. :P
< 1320747156 682006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have a speed indicator in the car?
< 1320747159 627267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.
< 1320747163 550961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is the issue
< 1320747176 955674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see...
< 1320747182 701529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this is just an American thing, but
< 1320747200 167416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people intentionally break the law by driving fast because they think the speed limits are ridiculous.
< 1320747218 950260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am one such person.
< 1320747224 93322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway hardly mountainous roads here, just slightly hilly. I live on a plain, it is just that the road goes over the few hills that exist.
< 1320747237 614627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that is rarer in Europe
< 1320747243 571805 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed.
< 1320747249 679961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in previous speed limit conversations.
< 1320747251 855870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: beside you could lose your driving license from that if you go too fast.
< 1320747254 68404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Europeans.
< 1320747260 19012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320747270 645386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: don't you have speed cameras in US?
< 1320747286 78542 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many. I've seen maybe one or two in my lifetime.
< 1320747301 256046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're easy to spot and slow down for, hardly something to make me paranoid all the time.
< 1320747305 865986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few here
< 1320747309 912053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are mobile ones too
< 1320747322 965663 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I know the speed traps along my commonly taken routes, so I know when to slow down.
< 1320747324 173245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, mounted on a trailer, that they park somewhere for a day
< 1320747328 431986 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can pretty much drive as fast as I want otherwise.
< 1320747364 814393 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most American drivers on the highway are in fact speeding much of the time.
< 1320747382 202290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange
< 1320747393 654349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of those insane people that are driving faster than the "normal" speeders.
< 1320747398 467953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320747404 362620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :irresponsible
< 1320747425 192206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have have to get an insane number of speeding tickets to lose my license, but yes I suppose.
< 1320747434 202630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: anyway, where you speeding when you hit that deer?
< 1320747440 798731 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not chalking up my speeding ticket to mere bad luck.
< 1320747448 448229 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, though I would say it was more like the deer hit me.
< 1320747458 164860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you have been able to stop if you had not been speeding?
< 1320747461 84257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically crashed itself into the side of my car. I didn't even see except for in the corner of my eye.
< 1320747474 396176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a split second thing really. nothing I could do.
< 1320747482 183435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when speeding indeed
< 1320747492 90928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you should try keeping to the speed on the signs
< 1320747493 532441 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at any speed. >_>
< 1320747509 591602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh did I mentioned that a deer hit my car. Yes, that car I just bought to replace my old car not too long ago. <-- what happened to the previous car?
< 1320747510 982354 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have been going 25 mph and the same thing would happen.
< 1320747529 787569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it got old.
< 1320747531 856941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320747536 109605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engine started knocking.
< 1320747548 663159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: anyway you have to keep real life and GTA separate :P
< 1320747556 524559 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe me I do.
< 1320747567 471329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't sound like it
< 1320747598 392319 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, Europeans are all strict on their speed limit stuff it seems. :P
< 1320747639 543223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an incredibly minor thing. I drive reasonable speeds when appropriate. Such as in traffic.
< 1320747670 873183 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say that I should follow a flat rate of speed as posted by a sign is ridiculous, in my opinion.
< 1320747694 230079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you have to drive slower sometimes. I never claimed otherwise
< 1320747699 801261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that should be the upper limit
< 1320747717 681445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when the people setting up those signs generate large amounts of revenue from people going faster than said number on sign.
< 1320747745 515209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I wouldn't drive 70 km/h on a road marked 70 km/h if the condition of the road, visibility and other traffic didn't allow that in a safe way.
< 1320747783 269002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wait what? Please don't tell me that speed limits is done by for-profit corporations in US....
< 1320747795 664236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :local government.
< 1320747810 848146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, crazy state system in US
< 1320747813 435625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though a number of private businesses can benefit.
< 1320747829 387568 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example there are online ticket paying services.
< 1320747832 249161 :ghost_!~ghost@196.212.154.235 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320747837 769612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1320747839 521399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who make money from setting up their services for local governments.
< 1320747842 960711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like that.
< 1320747847 149316 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d0d6.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320747860 698201 :ghost_!~ghost@196.212.154.235 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1320747869 570904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in my mind speed limits are just a way to take money from me. I suppose I've been doing a good job of allowing them to do that, since I ignore them. :P
< 1320747882 421485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... you are insane
< 1320747900 365514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no need to state the obvious.
< 1320747983 57992 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has generally never thought of himself nor intended to ever be a law-abiding citizen.
< 1320747999 126661 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d0d6.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophez.state=insane; //consider it noted
< 1320748201 671316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, university
< 1320749745 883781 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320752445 399103 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320752500 446813 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1320752756 910615 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320752770 305883 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1320753675 363077 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320753675 415297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320753736 802885 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src forever
< 1320753737 72213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You untyped fool!
< 1320754008 13770 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence$[[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]
< 1320754008 835108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[1,4],[1,5],[1,6],[2,4],[2,5],[2,6],[3,4],[3,5],[3,6]]
< 1320754866 92533 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320755412 350841 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the $?
< 1320756001 196019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320756066 261546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320756097 144834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the council here in Birmingham is actually cracking down on private parking enforcer people
< 1320756109 933194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them are acting vaguely dubiously
< 1320756436 607975 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Private parking tickets have been a very contentious issue here in Finland too for a while now.
< 1320756455 880735 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that a court did sort-of legitimize them quasi-recently though, much to the disappointment of some/many.
< 1320756485 999028 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they had given a parked-on-the-grass-because-answering-an-emergency ambulance a parking ticket or something like that.
< 1320756811 916538 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; the district court and the court of appeal both said private companies just plain aren't allowed to write parking tickets, but in June this year the supreme court reversed their decisions and said it's okay.
< 1320756909 162885 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the... uh, committee for constitutional law, has stated that according to them private parking-enforcement is unconstitutional.)
< 1320757170 568417 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also another funny story: one parking enforcement company (Parkki Oy) apparently had ticketed the car of another; then the other company sent the first one a 350 eur "clean-up" bill because their car had a sticker saying you're not allowed to attach/leave any material (like ads or whatever) to it.
< 1320757448 315057 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good to hear this story here, I've been too lazy to follow the discussion :)
< 1320757475 910618 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been too don't-have-a-car to follow it.
< 1320757491 843299 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though apparently they've been leaving parking tickets to bicycles too.
< 1320757512 133801 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that that's exactly enforceable, what with no license plates or anything.
< 1320757549 887602 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The companies in question seem to be just a slight bit overly profit-oriented.)
< 1320757834 937079 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320757936 980395 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I find it's best not ask any questions of Madoka-Kaname concerning what the hell they're doing with lambdabot.
< 1320757949 324402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I private parking tickets = the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.
< 1320757974 616641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually still has an unpaid parking ticket from the police department on his campus.
< 1320758086 642501 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-I
< 1320758137 242377 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can figure out, the current status in Finland is that they can write tickets, but they can't force the owner of the car to pay them if e says someone else was driving, so they'd have to go to court, which they haven't so far done with anyone; on the other hand, there's also a law initiative thingie to explicitly legalize private parking enforcement, but it's not law yet.
< 1320758230 740824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of campus parking tickets they can simply put a hold on my account.
< 1320758252 531606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it impossible to do important things like fix financial aid, register for classes, and ultimately graduate.
< 1320758272 958909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I give them $25 for not having a little sticker on my car. :)
< 1320758302 146648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so absurd.
< 1320758646 619539 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle String -> String -> String
< 1320758646 736474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.FilePath.Windows (<.>) :: FilePath -> String -> FilePath
< 1320758646 865747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.FilePath.Posix (<.>) :: FilePath -> String -> FilePath
< 1320758646 971654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.FilePath.Windows addExtension :: FilePath -> String -> FilePath
< 1320758705 162623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there was a case found recently where a carpark had rigged its pay-and-display ticket machines to deliberately miscount the money put into them
< 1320758724 391144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they clamped cars which stayed longer than the amount actually printed on the ticket, and charged ridiculous amounts to unclamp them again
< 1320758823 275843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vaguely interesting that they got caught, actually
< 1320758892 934223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unwords $ map shows [1,2] ++ map (++) ["red", "blue"] <*> [" fish"]
< 1320758894 372528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "1 fish 2 fish red fish blue fish"
< 1320758906 522227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would think they stick out like a sore thumb if they're charging ridiculous amounts.
< 1320758917 909766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the unclamping? no, they all do that
< 1320758932 270427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's being clamped down on too
< 1320758939 723836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha
< 1320758941 670776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1320758951 986217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not deliberate, but I noticed it before I pressed return
< 1320758957 456032 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> intercalate ", " $ map shows [1,2] ++ map (++) ["red", "blue"] <*> [" fish"]
< 1320758958 976535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "1 fish, 2 fish, red fish, blue fish"
< 1320759077 65867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the purpose of shows again?
< 1320759099 474601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I mean, obviously I know what it does but what is the benefit of it over using ++ explicitly.
< 1320759459 518477 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> b
< 1320759460 896261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320759461 14339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<**>) :: Applicative f => f a -> f (a -> b) -> f b
< 1320759461 66721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative liftA :: Applicative f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320759501 442201 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet:
< 1320759508 447434 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f 0 = ""; f n = f (n-1) ++ show n in take 5 $ f 500000
< 1320759508 566715 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"12345"
< 1320759508 621457 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4.61 secs, 478035512 bytes)
< 1320759508 621630 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f 0 = id; f n = f (n-1) . shows n in take 5 $ f 500000 ""
< 1320759508 621734 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"12345"
< 1320759510 610131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "*Exception: stack overflow
< 1320759510 845343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "12345"
< 1320759510 963472 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0.64 secs, 215319872 bytes)
< 1320759556 813201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320759616 222219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be fair to say that shows is similar to CPS??
< 1320759722 515842 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (. shows n) id ""
< 1320759723 386741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char] -> t'
< 1320759723 504350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferr...
< 1320759732 849359 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t iterate
< 1320759734 993617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> [a]
< 1320759757 398740 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, nevermind :P
< 1320759943 57176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320759947 247526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320760410 823298 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320760777 529129 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320762504 917254 :Guanxin!~guanxin@117.136.30.88 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320762526 113010 :Guanxin!~guanxin@117.136.30.88 PART :#esoteric
< 1320762874 924947 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320762908 155532 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320762929 2530 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320764635 57270 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320765500 6653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found some things about new version of Microsoft Excel. If you enter a text into a cell that starts with "A1-" then it will be formatted as an Islamic date (even in the English version). There is also a BAHTTEXT function which converts a number to Thai text and adds "Baht" suffix. There is no function for English numbers text. Apparently they added that feature for the purpose of ordering Thai food.
< 1320766092 412162 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320766323 557601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, "Baht" is the Thai currency. So it doesn't seem to make sense to use that for ordering Thai food within the United States.
< 1320766757 19766 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320767014 291391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's been suggested (by an anonymous Excel MVP) that the Excel programmers enjoy Thai food, and they created this function to facilitate email orders to Redmond Thai restaurants. This theory has not yet been confirmed -- but then again it hasn't been denied either."
< 1320767655 925741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually from what I can find, the real reason seems to be that it was included in older Thai versions of Excel, but the new version includes all the functions including non-English functions.
< 1320767851 625752 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to run Sakura MML compiler to MIDI, but I get error message about ConvToHalfSign1.
< 1320767996 544193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, all menus are completely unreadable; they have only question marks on them.
< 1320768066 477519 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1320768070 995380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is for Japanese system only?
< 1320768071 498705 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320768263 901026 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: forall f g xs.  map f (map g xs) = map (f.g) xs
< 1320768264 940000 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.channel4.com/programmes/spaced/4od
< 1320768265 416240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1320768266 19736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god.
< 1320768267 412702 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god.
< 1320768269 880804 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this rewrite rule used by default in GHC?
< 1320768272 723103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it never comes back up.
< 1320768278 251697 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the corresponding filter rule?
< 1320768279 652524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they've taken it down for good.
< 1320768307 23609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S JUST LIKE THE LAST EPISODE OF SPACED
< 1320768354 392817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320769001 421181 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if such rewrite rule is used by default
< 1320769008 957061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1320769385 43152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah just read about "list fusion"
< 1320769398 32877 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses rewrite rules to remove intermediate lists between some common list functions.
< 1320769538 841279 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# RULES
< 1320769539 843000 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"++"    [~1] forall xs ys. xs ++ ys = augment (\c n -> foldr c n xs) ys #-}
< 1320769548 249711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the rewrite ruke for ++
< 1320769553 883838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rule
< 1320769565 524715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320769623 488118 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the map rewrite rules are quite clever.
< 1320770022 612578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, how are you?
< 1320770039 36313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyed at tswett for stealing ais523's challenge to me :)
< 1320770050 810649 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did?
< 1320770055 141601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see a-d
< 1320770080 984023 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where am I seeing a-d?
< 1320770103 126202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's a reference to the nomic Agora
< 1320770105 966094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://agoranomic.org
< 1320770110 491135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh
< 1320770111 943544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a suspicion it might be Turing-complete
< 1320770112 816169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: duh. :P
< 1320770124 652928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I challenged elliott to try to prove it, as e had proven for believed-state-of B Nomic
< 1320770129 395127 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That big scary nomic
< 1320770134 553099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did? wow
< 1320770143 961804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's not scary, there's like 6 active players and nothing's happening
< 1320770144 510852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you write a some-language-to-B compiler?
< 1320770149 661196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, hmm, I do recall that
< 1320770155 49730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's coming out of a slump atm
< 1320770157 368826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the big scary nomic?
< 1320770160 268618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when i used to be cool :)
< 1320770168 518167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: none, nomics aren't popular enough to be big and scary
< 1320770173 827505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Agora is often called scary, but it isn't really
< 1320770174 305306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blognomic players think agora is scary because they're silly
< 1320770176 571053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least shouldn't be
< 1320770183 550139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agora is also very slow unlike blognomic :P
< 1320770185 556283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people see the numbers on the ruleset and get scared
< 1320770192 441732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i had a dream where blognomic died because i went idle, btw
< 1320770207 349204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a weird dream
< 1320770215 751742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how LibreOffice autocorrecst naive to naïve and then highlights it as a spelling error.
< 1320770227 153631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a recommendation of naive.
< 1320770240 321424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's surprising is that they actually took it seriously, and moved to another game, which was hosted on something almost like a google group, but defying all logic
< 1320770251 15951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: heh
< 1320770277 322475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't google groups defy most logic anyway?
< 1320770278 775796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream that I could administer a nomic
< 1320770284 573152 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it all went horribly wrong
< 1320770287 738540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only a bit remaining left to defy
< 1320770288 758428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that real life?
< 1320770291 939677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you haven't seen my dream programs
< 1320770299 405660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, probably nor has anyone else
< 1320770300 599334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dream I was playing awesome pen and paper RPGs
< 1320770308 708545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have
< 1320770310 170270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see them visually? or do you just dream they're there?
< 1320770313 185658 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1320770324 266815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I dream that I have friends who like them and play them.
< 1320770342 225579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I wake up to the painful sting of reality.
< 1320770342 579912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see them visually in a dream!
< 1320770370 901408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought I autotabbed, but I really just typed "Cake"
< 1320770390 320572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does blognomic usually spend entire dynasties constantly making proposals and never actually using them?
< 1320770396 376164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: often when I'm dreaming, I don't see things as images unless I concentrate on what they look like
< 1320770397 942372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1320770405 786790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, no more than two and a half rules, on average, will actually be releant
< 1320770416 992584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I won't bother deidling
< 1320770418 980509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others will be used once and then forgotten
< 1320770431 144194 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad category: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Games_of_nomic
< 1320770453 744837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and after i found out blognomic died, i realised it was another victory for agora :)
< 1320770470 978739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perfect military strategy: annoy your opponent until you both get bored; the opponent dies weeks later
< 1320770471 335855 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :releant? deidling? what is going on in this conversation.
< 1320770484 293882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*relevant
< 1320770491 82684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deidling is the opposite of idling
< 1320770494 146376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooh :>
< 1320770497 786430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, starting to do something, rather than starting to do nothing
< 1320770503 992094 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well I got what releant was.
< 1320770505 83886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I fly around in a spaceship :>
< 1320770510 19596 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deidling did not look like de-idling.
< 1320770525 38967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't, CakeProphet has ruined that smiley :'(
< 1320770533 930342 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about it's awesome. :)
< 1320770538 702267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even told him about ESO's official copyright claim to it! but no.
< 1320770544 47066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the most obnoxious emoticon ever.
< 1320770641 654818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get your emoticons mixed up with your peoplethoughts. It's not a very fertile mindset.
< 1320770644 77055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:20:39:  it's an incredibly minor thing. I drive reasonable speeds when appropriate. Such as in traffic.
< 1320770644 195099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:21:10:  to say that I should follow a flat rate of speed as posted by a sign is ridiculous, in my opinion.
< 1320770644 248224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I get it: Americans are equipped with a psychic ability to tell whether there's other cars on the road they're on or not
< 1320770663 875429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, just mirrors and stuff.
< 1320770680 679130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I drive a lot at night, in a small town.
< 1320770685 118768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! so then you have infinitely fast reflexes when a car comes into view. ok
< 1320770690 243076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no I'm not infallible. :P
< 1320770720 118526 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Americans treat cars as we treat pedestrians, by and large.
< 1320770724 972257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hmm, maybe we should institute some sort of maximum speed you can drive at on the roads, so that for the occasional case where a car does come in when you're not expecting it, your lack of fallibility doesn't lead to accidents or death... hmmmmmm...
< 1320770731 131991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fall/infall/
< 1320770738 66578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: heh
< 1320770832 242331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: better solution: be American and therefore the best drivers in the world.
< 1320770846 507394 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Icelanders are better
< 1320770862 843433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you read your Scandinavia and the World?
< 1320770878 993213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:23:03:  CakeProphet: wait what? Please don't tell me that speed limits is done by for-profit corporations in US....
< 1320770879 45754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:23:15:  local government.
< 1320770879 154080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:23:30:  right, crazy state system in US
< 1320770892 270848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not crazy when you have that much populated landmass
< 1320770902 481925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also local as in city government usually.
< 1320770904 104206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not states.
< 1320770913 923328 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the road probably.
< 1320770934 737008 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no I think it's completely local except for interstate highways.
< 1320770947 789836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because speed limit changes between jurisdictions I find.
< 1320770952 568626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on some highways.
< 1320770967 271197 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though interstate highways tend to be fairly consistent for the most part.
< 1320770992 484052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:59:30:  Also another funny story: one parking enforcement company (Parkki Oy) apparently had ticketed the car of another; then the other company sent the first one a 350 eur "clean-up" bill because their car had a sticker saying you're not allowed to attach/leave any material (like ads or whatever) to it.
< 1320770994 904830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finland :')
< 1320771010 650996 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, good luck trying to administrate every minute detail of American society from Washington DC.
< 1320771013 360348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... you can do that in Finland?
< 1320771049 344825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :Iambdabot
< 1320771070 841822 :Iambdabot!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "hi"
< 1320771071 824389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "hi"
< 1320771082 707243 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yam be da bot?
< 1320771091 290623 :Iambdabot!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Madoka-Kaname Stop fucking with me already!
< 1320771091 463511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1320771094 310740 :Iambdabot!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott
< 1320771095 554712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: it's not crazy when you have that much populated landmass <-- indeed, but some of the stuff that is local govt in US should probably be federal IMO.
< 1320771098 165185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1320771111 747741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably more the other way around.
< 1320771140 438872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a popular sentiment in the US.
< 1320771152 477137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more with conservatives but not exclusively.
< 1320771164 475908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no libertarian :)
< 1320771195 259784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently everyone in the Us is a libertarian.
< 1320771201 288656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided they know what it is.
< 1320771212 979785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gross exaggeration)
< 1320771245 371183 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I think I've got my first Skype spam.
< 1320771261 323659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NOTIFICATION URGENT ALERT is calling you"
< 1320771275 455490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you use chrome/chromium right?
< 1320771279 923928 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I didn't realise that exists, CakeProphet
< 1320771280 949146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320771293 344523 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I was oblivious as well.
< 1320771301 72637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there a way to make chrome and/or chromium save open tabs when you close it, and restore them when you open it.
< 1320771310 352343 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320771310 818327 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320771310 870692 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320771318 146891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. it's on the first page of preferences. did you check?
< 1320771335 551424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did, I somehow missed it. Beats me why it isn't default though...
< 1320771356 676939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of annoying since i use sleep as tab gc :)
< 1320771356 730209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that feature reeeeaaally annoys me
< 1320771361 476980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how that is still somehow one of the reasons people prefer Firefox over Chrome, even though they both support it.
< 1320771365 13602 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I close browsers to clear my mind
< 1320771369 286321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320771383 302217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have it on though, to recover from accidental closes
< 1320771384 835046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I just let them pile up until the browser gets sluggish, then I gc.
< 1320771387 22773 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320771398 629017 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how I escape TVTropes
< 1320771401 447088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: good luck with that, chromium takes about ten windows filled with tabs to get sluggish ime
< 1320771411 87295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's on this puny machine
< 1320771411 925700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't work well on my new computer though, it takes ages for firefox to get sluggish now
< 1320771424 537405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on my old computer 70 tabs was about it, now it is more like 700
< 1320771430 49967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in firefox)
< 1320771457 503405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd disable reopening tabs on startup if the history was better.
< 1320771476 829263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my history to track which tabsets in which windows I had open at each given moment, and be able to answer questions like "what tab did I click a link in to open this other tab?".
< 1320771483 164902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw I have to say that modern firefox are way less of memory hogs.
< 1320771493 859209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox versions*
< 1320771496 857763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :History was accurate when browsing was one tab in one window, but that hasn't been the case for years now.
< 1320771525 472100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on what sort of history. The "you opened this page this day" kind of history still works, doesn't it?
< 1320771535 547846 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you noticed that sometimes chrome doesn't preserve google-searches-from-"omnibar" in history sometimes?
< 1320771539 631510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes?
< 1320771551 913160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: dunno
< 1320771573 305662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it records all pages you opened. here's another kind of history that also preserves that: an unordered set of pagse
< 1320771574 427726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pages
< 1320771576 624472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, and now for some reason I can't get it to do that.
< 1320771587 33719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the point is, since tabs have become commonplace, history is now throwing away a lot of relevant information
< 1320771601 26720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm...?
< 1320771609 378959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more is there than timestamp?
< 1320771609 740301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what
< 1320771621 302367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, history records the state of the browser
< 1320771625 216785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in varying degrees
< 1320771626 944081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :throughout time
< 1320771628 491972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320771633 115821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :degree 0: set of urls, no time information
< 1320771637 673854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1320771638 159885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :degree 1: ordered set of urls with timestamp information
< 1320771643 338294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320771655 497865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :degree 2: ordered set of urls with timestamp /and tab layout/ information
< 1320771659 608049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320771669 641710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :degree 3: ordered set of urls with timestamp /and tab layout/ information, plus tracks tab parentage (open link in new tab -> current tab becomes parent of created tab)
< 1320771678 943964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, degree 3 would actually be really useful for me
< 1320771843 982573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1320771904 468474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320772033 209320 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should write still one round of assignments.... :/
< 1320772050 277249 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also instead of maintaining only a linear sequence of history for each tab it should be a multiway tree. :) so you can move forward, back, left, and right.
< 1320772050 404015 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid not many will care to do them.
< 1320772059 547054 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320772059 979048 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320772060 31482 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320772075 237485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is guilty, I only did half of them
< 1320772083 411239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bad person
< 1320772091 422260 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs are unnecessary, if you have w3m-style history
< 1320772095 468886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't even clicked the link.
< 1320772144 664620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what does w3m history look like?
< 1320772154 585205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've wanted a unified history-tab system for aaages
< 1320772154 705091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: no dupdog assignments? :P
< 1320772174 124642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prove that dupdog is not Turing complete" would be a good assignment
< 1320772200 113213 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: w3m stores all history (also future history) until you explicitly throw it out
< 1320772218 128150 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you enter a new page, the page is added in history right above the page you came from.
< 1320772219 64062 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future history?
< 1320772226 290322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: when you go back I assume
< 1320772229 946802 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah
< 1320772234 347949 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it creates "future" history.
< 1320772238 455295 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: those pages where you've been but "back"-ed from.
< 1320772275 374559 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320772313 984969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Meh, that doesn't store any hierarchy of recency information. :/
< 1320772321 316427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, where does it move the history entry if you open a page from history?)
< 1320772324 239135 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I can look into that.  But I was thinking about making the next assignments in language design, not use.
< 1320772361 25674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: how about proofs instead!
< 1320772371 780148 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the new pages are always added to the part of the history list where you currently are
< 1320772378 716977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320772385 289368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I suppose the problem would be "prove that dupdog is or is not Turing complete"
< 1320772385 449175 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there were some proof assignments already
< 1320772414 671997 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, w3m history could be augmented with link paths and recency lists, but I don't know if it improves it any
< 1320772427 368609 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would Hiafu be a compiled language?
< 1320772445 422286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: well, I need something along those lines, so that I can switch between currently-relevant pages without the hundreds of pages I opened in the meanwhile being in the way
< 1320772449 135122 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320772450 211669 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:13 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on kallisti (account kallisti):
< 1320772457 972712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my web browsing strategy is not exactly conventional.
< 1320772460 475628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or productive.
< 1320772461 940858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:13 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Last seen  : Mar 13 01:25:08 2011 (34 weeks, 2 days, 15:48:07 ago)
< 1320772467 780408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long does it take for nicks to expire?
< 1320772471 463510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants that one.
< 1320772472 82080 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, tiffany
< 1320772489 641342 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sometimes specifically throw out cruft history in w3m in order to have a nice, clean history :)
< 1320772493 465789 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai
< 1320772496 842918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: /j #freenode, /nick kallisti, ask for it to be dropped
< 1320772501 383708 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howare you?
< 1320772503 263428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: that's revisionism :'(
< 1320772510 862305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I think this is a trait common to some people. programmers especially.
< 1320772511 394350 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wa/w a/
< 1320772518 540445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that kind of web browsing "strategy")
< 1320772531 390711 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet, this one was inactive for 2 years and I went to #freenode and it took them like a month to finally drop it for me :s
< 1320772536 924805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: most people say "oh i have SO MANY TABS" to mean enough tabs that you can't see the titles on one window
< 1320772544 383570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean enough tabs that you can't see the titles in ten irregularly-sized windows
< 1320772546 464893 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, you could have a "history trashcan" for history that you haven't used for a long time :)
< 1320772549 27455 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would ~ATH count as an esoteric programming language?
< 1320772565 320866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, only a joke language
< 1320772579 404064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apocalypse oriented programming.
< 1320772605 507792 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I make an article for it?
< 1320772608 544203 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the wiki?
< 1320772610 934048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh did I mention Act 6 is going to be amazing?
< 1320772623 426791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, now that I actually understand what is going on.
< 1320772627 916035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: probably, but it wouldn't be very interesting, and nobody else would ever edit it :)
< 1320772649 250617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably just link to the wikia article on it, if you /really/ want to.
< 1320772656 541944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, hmm
< 1320772664 38286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can work on my fun code or my easy code
< 1320772667 230887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy code!
< 1320772676 405934 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fun code is fun
< 1320772683 837760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you just leave tabs open so that your feeble monkey brain can revist them later to remember what the fuck you were doing?
< 1320772687 505174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but hard
< 1320772694 996076 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard is fun when it's fun
< 1320772699 918423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, i just leave tabs open because why would i close a tab
< 1320772706 257924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok then you write it for me if it's so fun
< 1320772712 762215 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but code is never fun :(
< 1320772721 712200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sanely navigate a set of tasks at once.
< 1320772722 943612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1320772723 400114 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION always has excessive amounts of tabs open
< 1320772738 274524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to prune my tabs these days.
< 1320772770 287242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a workspace sort of system would be nice. basically tabsets instead of multiple windows.
< 1320772779 86308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: itt: firefox tab groups
< 1320772781 407765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they suck)
< 1320772785 266223 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bonsai browser.
< 1320772789 296936 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320772791 577196 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prune it often  and keep it small
< 1320772791 958664 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it any good
< 1320772793 413737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: never used those, but I doubt it's what I want.
< 1320772806 625531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it looks like a full-sized browzer
< 1320772866 521274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:04:23:  zzo38: forall f g xs. map f (map g xs) = map (f.g) xs
< 1320772866 639138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:04:29:  is this rewrite rule used by default in GHC?
< 1320772870 854916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see RULES pragmas in base source
< 1320772897 557020 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: already did. logread moar nub.
< 1320772914 869599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just look at the first thing I say when you join.
< 1320773106 245119 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320773115 54039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hobby: patronizing people via ancient internet protocols.
< 1320773127 477124 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good hobey
< 1320773173 606244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if IRC will be in Ancient History of PRogramming classes, 2000 years in the future.
< 1320773192 755407 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a terrible class that would be.
< 1320773233 266833 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, according to the Internet Jargon File, Tim Berners-Lee, a member of the Equites class, created the Internet
< 1320773248 465106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that probably won't happen as we'll be part of the singularity hivemind and thus have infinite access to all accumulated human knowledge.
< 1320773266 571480 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im future envy
< 1320773309 349744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :another possible scenario: breakdown of civilization, end of human existence, long distances of space travel rendering an all-encompassing singularity impossible, etc, etc, etc, etc.
< 1320773312 329302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: or society has collapsed.
< 1320773313 421614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man predicting the future is fun.
< 1320773333 166894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap
< 1320773401 978538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think you can make any reasonable prediction about that topic further into the future than 10-15 years.
< 1320773426 692572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go on the safe side and say 10 years.
< 1320773445 428259 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :5-10
< 1320773462 84049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you know, 1-10
< 1320773516 756987 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man future speculation was so much easier when it was just about spaceships, lasers, and flying cars.
< 1320773523 410803 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict that the Singularity will occur the day before Kurzweil would otherwise have died.
< 1320773524 289398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we're getting into freaky shit.
< 1320773532 300585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Joke shamelessly stolen from elliott.)
< 1320773546 78831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course, there could always be a meteor, nearby supernova or other rare catastrophic event, sure. But climate change probably haven't caused civilization to collapse in the next 15 years. Nor does singularity in that time frame seem likely.
< 1320773555 557241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm gonna feel really bad for the guy if it hits us the day after Kurzweil dies.
< 1320773576 459530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd be so busy laughing I'd be written off as a sociopath.
< 1320773592 122880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's OK, those thoughts would be extracted from your head before they actually happen.
< 1320773594 481450 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearby supernovae are fairly unlikely, IIRC.
< 1320773618 219515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: isn't there one possible candidate that could fry us in gamma iirc?
< 1320773621 772088 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: america god bless neutrino
< 1320773648 230248 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do I have any reason for choosing one of reactive-banana or Yampa over the other?
< 1320773649 758415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, a GRB, which is a fair deal less well-understood than a supernova, making predictions hard.
< 1320773660 620108 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly replacing Yampa with that fork, Animas I think)
< 1320773663 354199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sorry, but what is a GRB?
< 1320773689 265611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: use reactive-banana
< 1320773696 4258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: but don't, if you're trying to do AW stuff
< 1320773698 279262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder to what degree standardization lockdown (is there an actual term for that?) will slow down technological progress.
< 1320773698 331666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gamma ray burst; an extremely bright, highly directional burst of gamma rays.
< 1320773705 13166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought those were caused by supernovas?
< 1320773722 957380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nobody cares about standards
< 1320773736 890910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err. USB?
< 1320773741 619671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I suppose they get revised pretty drastically over the years.
< 1320773742 455988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two kinds of them based on spectral data, and one of those is hypothesised to be caused by a certain class of supernova.
< 1320773744 483303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case.
< 1320773760 312621 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, nothing wrong with making a normal monadic IO library for AW, then using reactive-banana on top of that, right?
< 1320773760 560975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah
< 1320773767 943329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people regularly violate power specs for usb i believe
< 1320773771 744040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will we be using HTTP like 100 years from now?
< 1320773781 266494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, so why does stuff not get fried?
< 1320773799 213945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: you will find that frp does not help you at all here, at least not in current forms. but certainly, you will waste your time regardless of what i say, so have fun...
< 1320773809 595424 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess I was referring more to protocols and specs than "standards", or were we talking about the same thing?
< 1320773809 829267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because computer manufacturers don't care about the specs either?
< 1320773813 131315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320773833 173829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you mean devices request more than 500 mA?
< 1320773835 414346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320773846 128096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, i just recall stuff violating the power stuff
< 1320773869 328764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how garbage collection works in elliotts brain
< 1320773873 326388 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace concepts with stuffs.
< 1320773898 191233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff stuff stuff
< 1320773957 287041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: quite a broken algorithm there. Since obviously this thing was still reachable
< 1320774044 635293 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, devices draw more than allowed by default without actually asking
< 1320774055 537472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well the rules still remain but more specific references are replaced by stuff.
< 1320774062 216380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320774093 429240 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think that's the sound of Vorpal overthinking it. :P
< 1320774101 340846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that is more like lossy compression .
< 1320774109 931386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ \././
< 1320774112 744979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what that sound was.
< 1320774134 54120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no it was me looking up how many "s" there were in "lossy" :P
< 1320774198 796740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. this guy on reddit doesn't understand why a compiler could be faster than cpython
< 1320774202 634785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how losy youar with yor verds.
< 1320774206 615003 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whut.
< 1320774217 707403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder if he knows how computers work.
< 1320774223 91814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/m4rbs/python_3_implementation_in_haskell/c2y45o5 onwards
< 1320774272 483041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So what? The compiler used for C is pretty state-of-the-art too" hahahahahahahaha
< 1320774312 212804 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he doesn't get interpreter vs. compiler.
< 1320774344 59791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly why do you talk to people on reddit
< 1320774346 832975 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand.
< 1320774357 65625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost every comment I've read on reddit is bad.
< 1320774380 931315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have nothing better to do
< 1320774396 420978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: anyway /r/haskell is almost universally intelligent
< 1320774433 149705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is pretty good, but it's no specialiser. It can't turn an interpreter into a compiler as good as itself.
< 1320774437 888948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a good compiler.
< 1320774447 534289 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want that compiler.
< 1320774470 556209 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, specialiser?
< 1320774479 117705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is exactly what specialisers do
< 1320774480 948062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the link and read
< 1320774528 375135 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Otherwise the only way to make it faster is by analysing the program during run time and get the information there (jit)."
< 1320774531 401455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is THE ONLY WAY.
< 1320774542 337474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write something that is faster than an interpreter.
< 1320774586 6547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this what Python mind virus does to some unfortunate souls? or is this something else?
< 1320774624 401743 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could one compile a language that uses eval? I mean, besides including an interpreter with it
< 1320774649 542148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: how could one compile a language that uses printf? i mean, besides including a formatted printer with it
< 1320774670 328966 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also jit evals.
< 1320774678 253561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds kind of unwholesome.
< 1320774682 501878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitting evals.
< 1320774838 639479 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320774843 133488 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320774911 708595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know you want to ditch @ and write the best programming language.
< 1320774915 262248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler.
< 1320774920 776533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what @ is, you moron.
< 1320774955 492307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay.
< 1320774964 312206 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comments
< 1320774987 416765 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that might not be the most accurate comment, but maybe it will be like a cluebat
< 1320774999 150619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION aggrieves.
< 1320775007 903059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you're just wasting time without the endless charm, charisma and genius required to make it an excellent fun time like i have
< 1320775015 497344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDdddddddddd
< 1320775038 646839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "not full of himself" hird
< 1320775089 366879 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he is just thinking about eval?
< 1320775126 369378 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's just stupid.
< 1320775130 314100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1320775171 931839 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is clearly not full of himself.
< 1320775176 10771 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thinks super-fast optimized python builtins = magically the overhead of interpreting your program with no optimization isn't slow
< 1320775176 204262 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't even capitalize his name.
< 1320775180 848822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who are full of themselves capitalize.
< 1320775205 327058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course he's full of himself, it'd be extremely disturbing if he was full of someone else.
< 1320775221 975325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is full of oerjan. 
< 1320775225 770345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION burps.
< 1320775244 359027 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/u/e/
< 1320775286 870161 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berps?
< 1320775305 104235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/m4rbs/python_3_implementation_in_haskell/c2y51fr ;; I used bullet points, bold and em dashes, so you know it's authoritative.
< 1320775325 40859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That is precisely the point you can barely optimize python via static analysis, the information to do that just isn't there."
< 1320775325 425911 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, if your Python libraries provided every single piece of code you needed as a C builtin... then your "Python code" is going to be fast.
< 1320775342 45430 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
< 1320775342 98260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You work in the dynamic languages space, find me one of them papers showing that the behaviour of dynamic programs can be statically analysed in the vast majority of cases.
< 1320775343 754428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I've read one.
< 1320775382 144368 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of papers that make that claim, very few (to none) that back it up.
< 1320775391 271407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, s/vast majority/some/ :P
< 1320775406 853091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizing python compiler + JITC eval = better Python
< 1320775408 86670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This guy is claiming that you can do /so little static analysis/ that it's impossible for a static, optimising compiler to beat CPython.
< 1320775415 18744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever.
< 1320775417 872434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, that's kinda siwwy.
< 1320775428 326798 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's actually one on the dynamic behavior of Python out there somewhere :P
< 1320775438 112014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: python is just too l33t and frexibul
< 1320775474 740131 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's tried to write a Perl compiler.
< 1320775481 177007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find other reasons to stop talkign to this guy
< 1320775488 221074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While usually I'm quite the liberal/free market in economic terms" strike one
< 1320775490 192594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/talkign/talking/
< 1320775491 589222 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1320775492 698931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @
< 1320775506 294557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've got a world to save.
< 1320775509 249821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ahh ok I think I understand where you're trying to get at. I agree modern fencing is definitely not nearly as effective as the real training and sword fighting people used to do. I think I misinterpreted "It wouldn't hold up against any sort of real combat"."
< 1320775510 25411 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My attempt to find it again is yielding only my own paper :P
< 1320775511 340742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Look at this fucker.
< 1320775515 440211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1320775522 559203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can cite that, there's no way he'd bother reading it!
< 1320775553 234212 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My attempt to find it again is yielding only my own paper :P
< 1320775555 866498 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320775558 26103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, he plays DCSS. Strike two!
< 1320775558 571701 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, copypasta fail
< 1320775563 643669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can cite that, there's no way he'd bother reading it!
< 1320775564 507936 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Here we go: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1862665
< 1320775578 480099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeexcellent.
< 1320775579 216057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ridiculous, obviously nicking your opponent on the wrist half a second before they run you through the heart makes you the victor!
< 1320775580 268016 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HEY
< 1320775587 456450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Yo
< 1320775605 543516 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play DCSS... occasionally...
< 1320775625 251603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Wanna bet how long I'd bother arguing with you about the practicality of compiling Python?
< 1320775635 130600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE RULES WORK.
< 1320775650 654430 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you forgot the static compiler + dynamic JIT superfrankenstein
< 1320775658 36152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom of your list.
< 1320775722 921777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can I refer to you as a ``colleague''? It would boost my credibility.
< 1320775729 827755 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320775743 319580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THE BULLET POINTS AREN'T ENOUGH
< 1320775745 346696 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are colleagues at the International Institution of Esoteric Software Design
< 1320775751 710310 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. IIESD
< 1320775751 841561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is friendship colleagues.
< 1320775752 326125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, thanks for the permission
< 1320775820 379676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/m4rbs/python_3_implementation_in_haskell/c2y54qu
< 1320775823 641439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *COLLEAGUEHI5*
< 1320775832 48176 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: restarting in attempt to fix nvidia drivers
< 1320775838 899094 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *COLLEAGUEPOLITENOD*
< 1320775842 219308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320775853 159237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *COLLEAGUEFORMALHANDSHAKE* *COLLEAGUEBUSINESSMEETING*
< 1320775863 244179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *COLLEAGUEAPPEARINGINSTOCKPHOTOSFORBADWEBHOSTINGCOMPANIES*
< 1320775886 664191 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *COLLEAGUEPOINTINGATCOMPUTERMONITORWITHCHEESYGRINWHILEYOUTYPESOMETHING*
< 1320775910 188144 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think  calling it a static compiler + dynamic JIT superfrankenstein would greatly lend to your credibility.
< 1320775930 235311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *COLLEAGUESUBVERTINGYOURATTEMPTSTOGETPROMOTEDSOTHATICANRISEABOVEYOUINTHEPECKINGORDERANDRUTHLESSLYCUTYOUDOWNBECAUSEIHATEYOU*
< 1320775944 861630 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *COLLEAGUETENUREBITCH*
< 1320775952 599539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *COLLEAGUEMURDER*
< 1320775953 293812 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320775957 216594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~The End~
< 1320775960 961367 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn
< 1320775977 562839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You scored a maximum 0.3/1000000000 points.
< 1320775983 663073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fix that sentence./
< 1320775985 458875 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the fastest Python you could get today would be by compiling Python into JavaScript and then running it with V8 ;)
< 1320776005 478063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1320776010 650603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's... that's ALMOST tempting.
< 1320776012 45305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile to Lua and LuaJIT
< 1320776034 9618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1320776034 992900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Posted 28 Sep 2008 at 14:03 UTC (updated 28 Sep 2008 at 16:33 UTC) by lkcl
< 1320776035 113289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyv8 is an experimental project to combine two-way python bindings to v8
< 1320776035 165648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : with the python-to-javascript compiler from pyjamas. a simple test has shown a ten times
< 1320776035 165831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : performance increase of python code converted and executed as
< 1320776035 481178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : javascript, when compared to running the same program as python. (to be
< 1320776037 507064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fair, cython gives a 100 times performance increase).
< 1320776055 437700 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hahaha X-D
< 1320776090 514524 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm not confident, but I would be unsurprised if compiling Lua to JS and running it through V8 was faster than LuaJIT. LuaJIT is really good, but JS has gotten a stupid amount of attention lately, and the Lua->JS semantic difference is very small.
< 1320776099 648033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Still, 10x over a naive bytecode interpreter is not that impressive :P
< 1320776103 92429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's even better now though.
< 1320776117 968153 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'struth
< 1320776140 450901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the bestest would be Fythe lololol
< 1320776151 655132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder if you couldn't do better than Pyjamas though, I think they're more focused on their AJAX GUI/FRP stuff than their translator...
< 1320776154 269564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm blissfully unaware of the thriving world of, uh, JS development.
< 1320776174 937426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No you're not, if you've used any JS app in the past few years
< 1320776183 904106 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this person is assuming that since you can't always infer types, you can never infer types
< 1320776190 77829 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might be the sort of assumption I might make
< 1320776200 488674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We detected that your computer does not meet the system performance requirements for MapsGL. Learn more about the system requirements for MapsGL.
< 1320776202 7276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;____;
< 1320776204 319944 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:  I... don't think that's how it works.
< 1320776204 579610 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned that my new computer is supersweet?
< 1320776206 795453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crais
< 1320776216 485532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it better than bsmntbombdood's?
< 1320776224 610822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idonno, I don't have his specs.
< 1320776287 235598 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`findlogs bsmntbombdood.*ghz
< 1320776288 449060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What CPU, how much RAM :P
< 1320776291 926810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooo cheater.
< 1320776293 589546 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: findlogs: not found
< 1320776296 368713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how you use logs anyway.
< 1320776299 523931 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh :P
< 1320776310 962280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the part list anyway, so I'm like SO AUTHORITATIVE.
< 1320776311 485443 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 6-core 3.1GHz AMD Phenom, 16GB RAM
< 1320776334 267049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, same RAM, but he has a 4-core first generation i7... which is better, 'cuz, really, AMD.
< 1320776347 414442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He gets bragging rights anyway on account of getting it years ago :P
< 1320776348 718127 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I shouldn't have let my friends talk me into getting an AMD >_<
< 1320776357 275954 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 3TB HDD :P
< 1320776366 405213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any SSD?
< 1320776367 411995 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: huh cool I've got a V6 3.0L Honda V-Tec with I-can't-think-of-an-analogy-for-RAM
< 1320776372 502608 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope.
< 1320776381 534305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He has an 80 GiB first-gen Intel X25M SSD plus two 1 TiB drives in RAID-1.
< 1320776393 868936 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, I still have more SPACE :P
< 1320776396 218657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or at least, did, years ago :P
< 1320776404 104416 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nuff.
< 1320776414 525164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More space, it's just that everything you can access goes so slowly you never get to appreciate it ;D
< 1320776415 686824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how 'bout this then: Mine was expensive, but not as retarded-expensive as his must have been years ago.
< 1320776423 424905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was <$1,600.
< 1320776429 538208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the exact amount. $1400?
< 1320776441 46699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not libc.so expensive!
< 1320776450 598371 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320776471 646576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Talk me out of getting AMD BTW
< 1320776486 35670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is literally exactly one reason I'm considering it and it's that I hate Intel :P
< 1320776487 848110 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Running OS X in a VM with AMD is *cry*
< 1320776498 207555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should find out about AMD's despicable business practices so I can hate them too.
< 1320776514 76737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So... that's... how is that a disadvantage?
< 1320776517 997540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That lets me avoid OS X more effectively.
< 1320776539 599523 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1320776552 855494 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My machine is SIMULRUNNING (<-- this is a word) Debian, OS X and Windows.
< 1320776560 599998 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can have 2/3rds pain and suffering and 1/3 joy.
< 1320776570 173731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really have given bsmntbombdood a worse computer, because now the awful consumerist in me feels really bad about buying a computer worse than his.
< 1320776570 428603 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3 pain
< 1320776583 452386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully, not being rich counteracts this!
< 1320776602 458316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if ECC RAM is less expensive these days. (Hahahahaha.)
< 1320776634 632716 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like Extra Crappy Crap RAM
< 1320776677 273586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does access to RAM become a bottleneck when you increase the number of cores in your CPU or does it matter?
< 1320776691 178976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not matter
< 1320776702 65618 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Depends. Generally yes. Depends on how NUMAlicious your CPU is too.
< 1320776719 872695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FSVO Extra Crappy Crap equal to not broken :P
< 1320776739 776888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should make FSVO a valid operation in @lang
< 1320776752 367609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously though, I'd like to take this opportunity to laugh really hard at anyone who buys a new computer without an SSD system drive.
< 1320776758 112774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha
< 1320776788 112430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ohh, there's the other reason I was considering AMD, i7s don't do ECC.
< 1320776804 663377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to get the vastly more expensive Xeons which need the vastly more expensive server motherboards because Intel are fucks.
< 1320776852 132988 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :intelllllll................................
< 1320776875 705425 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320776917 468552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://promotions.newegg.com/ASUS/111511/696x288.jpg
< 1320776922 913264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im true red
< 1320776923 520252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nes
< 1320776975 454554 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help. it seems that when I click on the "learn more" button, nothing happens.
< 1320776981 67 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have learned
< 1320776981 647929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most
< 1320777022 379845 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? learn
< 1320777024 476505 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320777028 352291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was going to ask why 16 gigs of RAM when you're not on Nehalem and then I felt really stupid.
< 1320777035 968444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16: Not a multiple of three? Instead a multiple of two?
< 1320777037 627345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You decide.
< 1320777111 794600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bytesizebio.net/index.php/2011/11/06/brainfk-while-waiting-for-a-flight/
< 1320777116 613132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE YOU ON /R/PROGRAMMING YOU PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT
< 1320777118 687311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPDATE II: Following Vincent's comment, here is a fixed version of the interpreter. This time it should work with nested loops. Thanks Vincent.
< 1320777120 325044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
< 1320777129 349003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM GOING TO THROTTLE YOU TO DEATH
< 1320777139 997339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know on one hand I can see how it would seem that 16 is a multiple of 3 because it is a very 3-like number, but then there is also the case that 16 is a multiple two because it lends well to create the 2-like numbers, but very few scholary sources seem to encroach upon the difficult subject.
< 1320777149 294015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1320777149 892208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love people who write BF interpreters without nested loops.
< 1320777150 701522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOO
< 1320777151 325217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE GUY
< 1320777153 708709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNOWS ABOUT ESOLANGS.ORG
< 1320777155 345204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1320777159 765836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They remind me of myself when I was twelve.
< 1320777193 864948 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320777198 121041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I like this golfed thing: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/m4c29/fun_with_brainfuck_while_waiting_for_a_flight/c2y2oxe
< 1320777223 568281 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320777232 506853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1320777235 363329 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is he using format
< 1320777237 104104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.shapecatcher.com/index.html Nooooooo, it doesn't do "PILE OF POO".
< 1320777247 248771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Python 3, looks like.
< 1320777258 790091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does % not exist in Python 3?
< 1320777267 778518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1320777273 688153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be way better for golfing in any case.
< 1320777292 989379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :🙀
< 1320777295 42224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weary cat face
< 1320777328 24931 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ﺕ
< 1320777328 790670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In block: Byzantine Musical Symbols"
< 1320777329 881862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1320777336 288291 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᴞ
< 1320777353 659877 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1320777354 557803 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320777355 671887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 𝆋
< 1320777379 776263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᑂ
< 1320777381 685769 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😆
< 1320777383 993732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't even recognise my shark pirate.
< 1320777386 319672 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::$ suddenly my money is where my mouth is.
< 1320777387 343609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᓤ
< 1320777388 364744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᓤ
< 1320777388 508189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᓤ
< 1320777388 753870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᓤ
< 1320777393 769509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best face.
< 1320777406 86922 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😌
< 1320777410 129038 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😒
< 1320777413 991347 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😋
< 1320777414 361086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᴞ
< 1320777417 353675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😁
< 1320777420 935108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😜
< 1320777424 546958 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😏
< 1320777429 118426 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😣
< 1320777432 7155 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😚
< 1320777434 29815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ѷ
< 1320777435 17234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ѷ
< 1320777435 253139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ѷ
< 1320777435 922582 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😞
< 1320777465 95330 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᒚ
< 1320777482 413583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320777489 351881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ꙭ
< 1320777495 507834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mature.
< 1320777507 264924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᴂ
< 1320777535 309902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :⚧ waht
< 1320777546 370740 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😅
< 1320777548 508428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MALE WITH STROKE AND MALE AND FEMALE SIGN"
< 1320777554 794568 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😘
< 1320777557 579028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi
< 1320777587 197127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom
< 1320777589 30145 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ elliott \ everyone \ finland \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ fungot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ itidus20 \ monad \ monads \ monqy \ nooga \ oerjan \ oklopol \ qdb \ qdbformat \ sgeo \ shachaf \ u \ vorpal \ welcome \ wiki \ you
< 1320777605 299303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn you
< 1320777607 81408 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320777611 857963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget you
< 1320777612 228688 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you
< 1320777615 60420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? banach-tarski
< 1320777615 620063 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what?
< 1320777617 789317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you
< 1320777618 145389 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320777621 759370 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
< 1320777624 590089 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320777631 239390 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you
< 1320777634 41175 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was you?
< 1320777638 275269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? itidus20
< 1320777640 243183 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 is horny 60 year olds having cybersex in minecraft
< 1320777655 301124 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad
< 1320777656 919115 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
< 1320777668 198508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😡
< 1320777671 275216 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😖
< 1320777672 958309 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf
< 1320777674 655087 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad
< 1320777678 135339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😪
< 1320777682 101067 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😏
< 1320777683 875470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we have descended into madness.
< 1320777684 766428 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1320777694 232168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only Madoka-Kaname were here
< 1320777694 353200 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😩
< 1320777697 200997 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to spam lambdabot.
< 1320777699 733930 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😷
< 1320777700 309699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn shachaf ace
< 1320777702 255611 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320777703 380076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1320777704 701312 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1320777706 761019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1320777706 877563 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😺
< 1320777708 216194 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1320777709 990602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1320777710 855470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1320777711 874637 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1320777712 287644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: pls stop
< 1320777714 939552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320777719 122304 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320777720 380931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf
< 1320777722 247174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf ace
< 1320777726 418276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 876
< 1320777727 776882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320777728 193230 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1320777729 33005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you
< 1320777731 81393 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320777732 938310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you
< 1320777734 891277 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you a haskell
< 1320777742 891670 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me a haskell
< 1320777754 94500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf
< 1320777756 273576 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad
< 1320777761 142436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320777766 902781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oklopol
< 1320777768 900306 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid."
< 1320777784 789269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Phantom_Hoover
< 1320777786 545873 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320777788 188273 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sgeo
< 1320777789 884772 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo invented Metaplace sex.
< 1320777792 576594 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? phantom hoover
< 1320777794 606477 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom hoover? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1320777800 524873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? vorpal
< 1320777802 686154 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea.
< 1320777815 162132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal follows speed limits.
< 1320777815 280635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing to do with elliott, I assume.
< 1320777817 593486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaame.
< 1320777836 208543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? everyone
< 1320777838 105711 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone in here is mad.
< 1320777856 459645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune
< 1320777857 62758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ievan
< 1320777859 201181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat alarmed at the continued growth of the number of employees \ on the Department of Agriculture payroll in 1962, Michigan Republican Robert \ Griffin proposed an amendment to the farm bill so that "the total number of \ employees in the Department of Agriculture at no time exceeds the number of \ farmers in
< 1320777871 406618 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ievan is basically http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4om1rQKPijI
< 1320777871 657692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320777872 39862 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good poem
< 1320777892 275716 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are IRC fortune dbs
< 1320777897 744778 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC-friendly that is.
< 1320777932 211589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? haskell
< 1320777934 367636 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is preferred by 9 out of 10 esoteric programmers. Ask your GP today! http://learnyouahaskell.com/
< 1320777957 913067 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320777968 435253 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1320777969 365253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think that kind of advertising is allowed here?
< 1320777973 53204 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the Haskerl thingy
< 1320777992 302774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Haskperl
< 1320778008 150187 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320778036 771285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a google search for perl compiler renders nothing is actually a legitimate perl compiler.
< 1320778043 2592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+that
< 1320778062 244728 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm pretty sure it's called Haskerl, but yes
< 1320778085 949629 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's an actual thing.
< 1320778107 767918 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl/partain-1.html
< 1320778144 456222 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwww yeah
< 1320778151 211465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320778188 971179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted]
< 1320778191 191658 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320778253 101961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any evil lies that i wrote [Website redacted] because i couldn't bother to find a website will be harshly punished.
< 1320778262 408588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further, if an io_thing turns out to have type "[IO a]" (list of I/O
< 1320778262 531061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actions), then suitable wrapping will be inserted to deal with that
< 1320778262 584036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("listIO io_action `thenIO` ( \ result -> ... ", for those who care).
< 1320778265 949822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: this is great and terrible
< 1320778288 959630 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just read that line too...
< 1320778304 366178 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thought roughly the same thing
< 1320778305 243959 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awful
< 1320778350 222807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: don't worry, it was in the naive days of 93
< 1320778351 915513 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an April Fools joke
< 1320778353 291031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did not know then
< 1320778357 514089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: ...oh :(
< 1320778358 517838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: but
< 1320778362 502229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they literally invented do notation?
< 1320778363 954169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1320778369 181879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like when ben franklin was joking about dst :D
< 1320778371 90695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess USB 1.1 had a poorly named speed in retrospect
< 1320778377 273986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"full-speed"
< 1320778386 86873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, that might be 1.0 as well
< 1320778386 838202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah that explains why the wrapping isn't simply a monad.
< 1320778411 712375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1320778413 938849 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 93 explains a lot
< 1320778418 488249 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl.html
< 1320778421 754010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the 93
< 1320778429 897073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, they say it's monadic IO
< 1320778437 307444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's before the typeclass existed
< 1320778449 94311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: wait, was do notation already proposed when this came out?
< 1320778450 323784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must have been
< 1320778460 293208 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No idea
< 1320778477 516737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely it should be simply sequence in some monad, otherwise.
< 1320778490 492917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what they will call UBS 4.0
< 1320778493 269755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB*
< 1320778494 896551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um like I said, this is 93, so they knew about monadic IO but had no abstraction for it
< 1320778498 994296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Monad typeclass, etc.
< 1320778513 579056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :""if", for example, normally has the type "Bool -> a -> a -> a"."
< 1320778515 410784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better time
< 1320778516 856264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what "otherwise" means, sheesh
< 1320778525 880726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1320778559 554940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bad that I think some of this stuff is a good idea?
< 1320778564 592043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320778567 451511 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320778567 576010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the do notation part
< 1320778569 683700 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf
< 1320778571 581498 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1320778577 288049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh the polymorphic regexps are actually a well known thing
< 1320778579 541052 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -9 $$
< 1320778581 168199 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed
< 1320778586 533734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo nice try
< 1320778588 467596 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try
< 1320778598 296855 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that a try?
< 1320778606 100181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1320778606 962014 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it nice?
< 1320778607 757072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's wrong with bool->a->a->a for the type of if?
< 1320778609 942192 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should just exit the shell instance that it spawns.
< 1320778611 521016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the type it has, as a function
< 1320778617 793021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where did I say there was something wrong with it?
< 1320778620 700253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mainly variable interpolation and backtick stuff (though that syntax would conflict with infix functions)
< 1320778621 325421 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 $$ is my usual way of exiting a shell.
< 1320778624 988910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn shachaf mad with destruction
< 1320778627 258334 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320778630 131183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in your answer to CakeProphet's question
< 1320778632 4795 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf
< 1320778634 63624 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1320778634 853085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you bind ^D to that? :-)
< 1320778638 346657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not "some of this stuff"
< 1320778648 288649 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No  -- I want ^D to behave as it does.
< 1320778648 411237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1320778662 127651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But kill -9 $$ is the easiest way I know of to exit without saving history.
< 1320778662 801865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :run kill -WINCH $$
< 1320778669 693079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -WINCH $$
< 1320778671 601638 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1320778680 138441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't do with HackEgo having a badly-sized terminal
< 1320778700 608094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, a bad belief about the size of its terminal
< 1320778708 690831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tput cols
< 1320778710 693377 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :80
< 1320778717 75302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I wasn't expecting that to work…
< 1320778719 257976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tput rows
< 1320778719 630488 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.85 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320778720 233830 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, you'd want to kill -WINCH its PPID, presumably.
< 1320778721 454773 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tput: unknown terminfo capability 'rows'
< 1320778728 393073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320778746 37773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tput lines
< 1320778747 149517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly ais523
< 1320778747 902627 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :24
< 1320778749 856093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320778753 833008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was guessing
< 1320778764 756966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided that my guess was wrong after the error
< 1320778860 832650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :learning from errors?  how quaint.
< 1320778890 578942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run printf '\x1b[8;120;36t'; tput cols; tput rows
< 1320778892 656830 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\x1b[8;120;36t80 \ tput: unknown terminfo capability 'rows'
< 1320778896 684454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run printf '\x1b[8;120;36t'; tput cols; tput lines
< 1320778898 624498 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\x1b[8;120;36t80 \ 24
< 1320778899 104647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl/ganesh-1.html
< 1320778904 844150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god people taking this seriously :')
< 1320778914 661832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring, It'd have been hilarious if I'd actually managed to resize its idea of what its temrinal was
< 1320778917 754190 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I tend to agree, Perl’s ast based internal structure is very fast. The overhead of JIT would almost certainly be a big down side as most perl programs seem to run for a very short time."
< 1320778918 274082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't think you're using printf right
< 1320778920 376272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't escape
< 1320778921 787397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this crap.
< 1320778932 724050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run printf '%c[8;120;36t' 27; tput cols; tput lines
< 1320778933 79403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '\x1b[8;120;36t'; tput cols; tput lines
< 1320778934 783358 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2[8;120;36t80 \ 24
< 1320778939 250677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '\e[8;120;36t'; tput cols; tput lines
< 1320778941 81352 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-e \e[8;120;36t \ 80 \ 24
< 1320778944 283988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320778946 317142 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-e \x1b[8;120;36t \ 80 \ 24
< 1320778949 396521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run /bin/echo -e '\e[8;120;36t'; tput cols; tput lines
< 1320778951 90506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you're using echo right
< 1320778951 742931 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.[8;120;36t \ 80 \ 24
< 1320778955 918057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1320778960 260667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, no pty
< 1320778990 276918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't want to be misunderstood but I DON'T WANT to believe this.
< 1320778990 329543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, programs do not normally kill patients, doctors do.  So where
< 1320778990 393930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :were the doctors or nurses who were supposed to keep such patients
< 1320778990 446781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :under close control?  Or do we nowadays have artificially intelligent
< 1320778990 446941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs acting as doctors?"
< 1320778994 316883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SO ADORABLE OMG
< 1320779004 760719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Something missing in the above picture, I think.  And I also detect
< 1320779004 813851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bad smell of abuse and negligence, too.  (Assuming that the last sentence
< 1320779004 877236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of Hudak's message does really reflect what happened at Yale Med School.)
< 1320779004 929647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1320779004 929811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I would safely guess that there are dozens of newspapers,
< 1320779005 630965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV stations, etc. who would be interested in this story.  So how come
< 1320779007 282251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never did their job?  Or did they?"
< 1320779007 786037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got the code wrong; at least, it's not working in my shell, and it used to
< 1320779009 323531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gjkdfsghksdklfg
< 1320779015 975245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try in rxvt
< 1320779021 837754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know gnome-terminal dislikes some of that stuff
< 1320779024 391686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 8 meant to be
< 1320779027 526187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it 2 or 3
< 1320779029 4049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does work in gnome-term, I've done it in the past
< 1320779042 787306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320779053 769194 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.85 PART :#esoteric
< 1320779074 760036 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, how many people did you kill?
< 1320779079 52058 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your bad code
< 1320779081 902880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl/jhf-1.html
< 1320779082 35008 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, he's not here
< 1320779084 212394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :excessive monadery!
< 1320779118 277686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl/wall-1.html
< 1320779119 491299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi larry
< 1320779170 624332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is the best
< 1320779182 139997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl/dw-2.html
< 1320779185 12157 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Support for Visual Basic is not anticipated."
< 1320779185 377340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to add it to the wiki
< 1320779190 536626 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOO
< 1320779198 186690 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Wakeling (inventor of surrealist programming)
< 1320779229 319270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you manage to read the annotation
< 1320779364 577781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: larry -Wall is god among meermortals.
< 1320779463 788560 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two monitors now
< 1320779514 500326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :larry -Wextra
< 1320779656 318478 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320779662 545055 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :larry -funroll-loops
< 1320779672 45088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :larry o2
< 1320779693 581696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :larry "funroll" loops
< 1320779714 528320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had a son so I could call him that.
< 1320779723 71373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that my surname was Loops, I suppose.
< 1320779749 164755 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can always get married and adopt your wife's surname.
< 1320779772 117113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just change your name.
< 1320779783 723035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also please CakeProphet, we have civil unions in this country. Phantom_Hoover is a gay vampire.
< 1320779877 524626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: did you manage to read the annotation <-- on sunday?  yes.
< 1320780042 289828 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm biscuit syrup.
< 1320780045 310269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel so... southern.
< 1320780152 270382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're not *dwarven syrup biscuits [10]*?
< 1320780186 733760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's this: http://www.scanavert.com/api/picture.php?upc=00700195004325&width=150&height=150
< 1320780209 447758 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found a 1 /dev/zero
< 1320780260 169387 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not referring to your barbaric limey biscuits.
< 1320780278 906300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limes????? What are these things?
< 1320780283 674156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they like plump helmetss?
< 1320780295 64647 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, they prevent scurvy in sailors.
< 1320780312 16795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words
< 1320780318 549610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they prevent scurvy sailors, argh!
< 1320780337 15193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to read that [10] as that +10 thing they put in rpg tables
< 1320780362 351371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: play df with us :}
< 1320780366 367832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDd
< 1320780367 443431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Qqqq
< 1320780369 553115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::#
< 1320780378 266131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah so it is something equivalent there?
< 1320780389 232176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt say that ;___;
< 1320780400 770217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ceries softly.
< 1320780404 565078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it _could_ have been.
< 1320780406 924286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was meant to be a typo of softly
< 1320780407 811191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1320780409 4801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :soft lie
< 1320780409 400807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1320780411 628238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turned out being the same
< 1320780412 724251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the right way
< 1320780420 170372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i
< 1320780421 516267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistyped
< 1320780423 493626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mistype...
< 1320780430 925812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i broke elliott again
< 1320780435 845091 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1320780438 912082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1320780455 270953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xlithiumx.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/395px-runny_hunny.jpg
< 1320780461 472925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice that American biscuits are far superior.
< 1320780462 223848 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunny
< 1320780483 272186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, see: http://westofthewest.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/hardee-s-new-monster-biscuit.jpg
< 1320780489 814459 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more typical American biscuit.
< 1320780498 678950 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fastest food
< 1320780513 263033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :america is like going into a quaint film but then the film doesn't end
< 1320780534 712543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: explain yourself
< 1320780581 21067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh arcanesentiment is in another lull
< 1320780585 278415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a metaphor for life?
< 1320780599 129962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog21 too, but it's always in a lull
< 1320780605 977101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul
< 1320780608 438941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok it had active posting throughout october
< 1320780625 455114 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: lull with me.
< 1320780677 803614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulling good hobbey
< 1320780685 810003 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320780752 668212 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BiscuitsAmerican%26British.png that's a really shitty american biscuit
< 1320780765 920585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am ashame wakapedoia
< 1320780784 681590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mmmmmmm bourbons
< 1320780801 109606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that what that obscene doggy treat is?
< 1320780806 462592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1320780807 582488 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is.
< 1320780807 710299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/60/20091013115300%21BiscuitsAmerican%26British.png old version, even shittier
< 1320780808 92302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its
< 1320780814 553226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its filled with chocolate cream shit
< 1320780814 943111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its
< 1320780815 903430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great
< 1320780818 850490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320780819 319936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320780820 169938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet
< 1320780824 358286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you never had a digestive biscuit in your life
< 1320780828 358687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1320780831 607696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck!!!!!!!!!
< 1320780833 759596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ginger nut???
< 1320780837 663317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh?
< 1320780844 168520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.virginmedia.com/images/ginger_nut430x300.jpg
< 1320780847 717019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you had one of these
< 1320780849 305720 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :america land of the freedom from digestive biscuits
< 1320780857 867736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ANSWER FUCKER >:(
< 1320780867 524234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : have you never had a digestive biscuit in your life <-- I only ever heard of them
< 1320780867 654724 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh yes I've ate a cookie before.
< 1320780868 696082 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :home of the too brave for ginger nut
< 1320780870 994091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever they are
< 1320780874 723907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: THATS NOT A COOKIE
< 1320780877 137072 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never heard of digestive biscuits.
< 1320780878 548650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :COOKISE HAVE CHOCOLATE CHIPS
< 1320780879 416065 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds horrible.
< 1320780880 193506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is exactly a cookie.
< 1320780883 295925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1320780884 892251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320780885 264154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...
< 1320780887 613197 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet
< 1320780887 734997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOURE LOOKING AT
< 1320780889 284924 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cookies do not have chocolate chips
< 1320780889 547834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS GINGER FLAVOURED
< 1320780889 600480 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has not ever
< 1320780890 902800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasted
< 1320780891 371838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND SNAPS
< 1320780891 998224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND SHIT
< 1320780895 482061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a digestive biscuit
< 1320780896 943092 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love ginger snaps
< 1320780896 996223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we call those ginger snaps
< 1320780898 226992 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looks like a kind of cookie to me.
< 1320780900 995134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're cookies.
< 1320780901 489972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are the best thing in tea?
< 1320780901 542427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1320780902 517948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP CALLING
< 1320780903 271775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING
< 1320780903 521160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C
< 1320780903 639450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I take it you don't like ginger?
< 1320780904 399799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOKIES
< 1320780906 503820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU!!!!!!
< 1320780914 765445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GINGER NUTS ARE THE GREATEST FUCKING THING NEXT TO DIGESTIVE BISCUITS
< 1320780914 817656 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A "cookie" in American parlance refers to a large quantity of things, many of which you call "biscuits".
< 1320780917 277440 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love good cookies too
< 1320780921 492053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: FUCK YOUUUU YOUR DIALECT IS WRONG!!!
< 1320780923 476441 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:[{- COOKIES! -}])
< 1320780926 734215 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (x,y) = True in f undefined undefined
< 1320780927 729755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `a -> t'
< 1320780927 843630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `GHC.Bo...
< 1320780928 86658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Personally I don't like ginger
< 1320780933 137290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the United States it is a small, soft, leavened bread, somewhat similar to a scone."
< 1320780934 881589 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you had american biscuits?
< 1320780935 153237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1320780935 392310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I;M PUNCHING YOU
< 1320780940 173688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: IVE HAD SCONES
< 1320780940 301337 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (x,y) = True in f (undefined,undefined)
< 1320780941 210712 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Didn't you ever watch Sesame Street?
< 1320780941 263170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1320780945 570157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not the same.
< 1320780946 342557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, dude, give up, you can't out-scone Britain
< 1320780946 428196 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You've probably never had biscuits & gravy. :)
< 1320780961 672878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :american biscuits are kind of lame
< 1320780963 795177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravy on digestive biscuits MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1320780967 583851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no)
< 1320780970 681636 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: With gravy, though.
< 1320780976 155694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy
< 1320780979 280379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever had a digestive biscuit
< 1320780981 416111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are many ways to make biscuits gravy
< 1320780986 574572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the southern US is very good at it.
< 1320780992 838455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1320780996 524125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gravy/good/
< 1320780997 373914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh
< 1320781002 270899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :graby is an acceptable synonym.
< 1320781005 156015 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1320781005 389961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott maybe I have had something which is a digestive biscuit without knowing because nothing is called digestive biscuites here it's all cookies :(
< 1320781005 872527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy
< 1320781011 953421 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must
< 1320781012 825542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wait ill get a picture
< 1320781013 976564 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :save you
< 1320781015 773808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from
< 1320781016 433192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this
< 1320781021 739521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Digestive_biscuits.jpg ok this is an ugly picture but
< 1320781024 797303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :digestive biscuitless wasteland
< 1320781027 459459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: they taste like warmth
< 1320781027 841051 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes they're pretty much the same thing.
< 1320781029 96688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320781031 532994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and English people are strange: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_pudding <-- IMO this is a type of bread, not a pudding
< 1320781031 756584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webanswers.com/post-images/5/5F/7088B479-AB32-1029-81DD15954676B012.jpg
< 1320781034 750074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a slightly nicer picture monqy
< 1320781039 487123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you dunk them in tea and
< 1320781041 291946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so warm and
< 1320781042 767799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1320781043 260179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Digestive biscuits basically aren't in the US, but if we had them we'd call them cookies.
< 1320781044 383923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy
< 1320781046 163087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you have a supply of adequate tea
< 1320781048 243881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had a msvitties the original
< 1320781055 628712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mcvities
< 1320781056 558906 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have crappy tea sorry
< 1320781060 719267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok but is it
< 1320781064 561515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you stand to have a mouthful of it
< 1320781068 694035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :english biscuits work with any tea
< 1320781071 316837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it tea, not weird herbal crap?
< 1320781073 62494 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this conversation is hilarious.
< 1320781077 153132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah it has to be actual tea not
< 1320781078 108445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: agreed
< 1320781078 641871 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it's tea
< 1320781078 771509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :green tea or whatever
< 1320781082 761454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good
< 1320781084 724620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what's your address
< 1320781085 827923 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320781086 234065 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320781086 285835 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320781090 540129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads up amazon
< 1320781099 740939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mamas-southern-cooking.com/images/biscuits-and-gravy-01.jpg
< 1320781101 367926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmmmmm
< 1320781106 996065 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, man. Green tea is actual tea. Admittedly, probably not the sort of thing you want to drink if you want to do things proper & British-like.
< 1320781110 807594 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving out my address would only end badly
< 1320781112 216005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no amazon.co.uk i dont want the chocolate ones!! they are niceb ut monqy needs _real digestives_
< 1320781118 988449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it is ok you can tell mei n private
< 1320781119 751166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK American biscuits look like crappy scones.
< 1320781125 916730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, have you had scones.
< 1320781131 276566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dude find me digestives on amazon.co.uk i cant
< 1320781131 402331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Does it originate from the tea plant?
< 1320781134 445786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they re like
< 1320781135 790722 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1320781136 206531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 quid
< 1320781136 654482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: scones are a US thing too.
< 1320781138 540755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 23712389723 pack
< 1320781144 394387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ??? haha no?
< 1320781149 80626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are similar but usually not eaten with the same things that biscits are.
< 1320781150 58048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/1StopCufflinkShop-Novelty-Digestive-Biscuit-Cufflinks/dp/B003PLO6PQ/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1320781097&sr=8-18
< 1320781151 746588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corollary: do you rhyme 'scone' with 'cone'?
< 1320781155 321672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :novelty digestive biscuit cufflinks
< 1320781156 795767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover
< 1320781157 416015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :novelty digestive biscuit cufflinks
< 1320781159 159682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1320781161 666698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: nothing else added except hot water and possibly milk?
< 1320781170 206584 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no its because mysterious thing comes in mail from mysterious place and my parents wouldn't be able to deal with it.........and i wouldn't be able to tell them i gave out adres because then they'd kill me
< 1320781171 229973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: scones don't really exist where I live.
< 1320781171 369919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS NOVELTY DIGESTIVE BISCUIT CUFFLINKS WHAT???
< 1320781173 113035 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You don't add milk to green tea.
< 1320781173 194925 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they actual digestive biscuits?
< 1320781175 788600 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, yeah.
< 1320781177 225453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP???
< 1320781177 345913 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of not bein gan audtl
< 1320781180 340511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HELP?
< 1320781183 483810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but I've seen them in the midwest and northeast.
< 1320781186 101609 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maybe* a small amount of sugar.
< 1320781189 721958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much all biscuits in the south.
< 1320781193 305493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is there anywhere ican dliver things that you canp ick them up (in secret)
< 1320781194 96385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: right, then it is a type of tea. And I wouldn't know if you use milk with it or not, I don't like any tea really
< 1320781205 292550 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of.....
< 1320781212 239267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, wait we can use that strike bomber we were going to kill you with (long story) and drop digestive biscuits instead?
< 1320781225 459310 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea
< 1320781238 344371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok monqy
< 1320781240 921521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mind the taste of high explosive?
< 1320781242 891834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we meet up in california
< 1320781246 848161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will bring digestives
< 1320781249 814025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and proper eta
< 1320781250 569691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tea
< 1320781269 873427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.amazon.co.uk/McVities-Digestive-Biscuits-400g-Pack/dp/B005R0LO5S/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&qid=1320781212&sr=8-34 20 POUNDS!!!!
< 1320781278 944263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320781283 302878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sell digestives in america
< 1320781285 611184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know they do because
< 1320781289 739961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure like on reddit theres been an expat saying
< 1320781291 47014 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whoa, man, I thought biscuits had to be hard.
< 1320781294 50243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you just have to go blah and they have all the BISCUITS!!!
< 1320781297 15904 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there are soft biscuits.
< 1320781305 890351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: find the biscuits
< 1320781310 58374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, none of us knew this?
< 1320781314 117377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmm,
< 1320781315 176490 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, yes, if you know where to look you can find just about any damned food item in the US.
< 1320781351 542115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think you guys understand
< 1320781353 758930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're missing out on
< 1320781356 780384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you've had digestives right
< 1320781358 154463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi, pikhq_, do you rhyme 'scone' and 'cone'?
< 1320781358 805522 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Especially* if you're in, say, New York.
< 1320781360 213409 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No.
< 1320781360 305673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough I don't think either of the Swedish words "kaka" and "kex" translates directly to either the British or the American biscuit/cookie concepts
< 1320781363 510994 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1320781364 513367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT
< 1320781367 671604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: FIX IT???
< 1320781377 407770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, BASTARD SCUM BASTARD BASTARD
< 1320781386 580064 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Describe?
< 1320781389 487301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://swervechurch.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/6b7d841b6f6f35e6_m.jpg DO YOU GUYS DO THIS TO YOUR SCONES?
< 1320781392 362939 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't speak Scots. :P
< 1320781392 980170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I found a summary of the French.
< 1320781394 929652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT RHYMES WITH 'CON'
< 1320781395 951716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT
< 1320781397 289276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS
< 1320781398 384051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscuit_rose_de_Reims "The biscuit is very hard. It is hence customary to dip the biscuit in champagne or red wine to soften it."
< 1320781399 30068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RHYMES
< 1320781399 916692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH
< 1320781402 819186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'CON'
< 1320781409 120485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, I wouldn't even know what to classify those "digestive biscuits" as in Swedish terminology.
< 1320781422 790543 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah nay spik braid scots
< 1320781424 844794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know those biscuits they sell in the swedish section of ikea? those are nice guys
< 1320781429 464267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: definitely not kaka. And kex need to be crisp
< 1320781432 709945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, OH GOD WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO THAT SCONE
< 1320781433 669069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_,
< 1320781435 799561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you
< 1320781436 431818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do
< 1320781437 852410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're thin and sort of star shaped but rounded?
< 1320781439 53067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not understand
< 1320781441 107534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and gingerbready
< 1320781441 818605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they don't sell food in IKEAs in Sweden
< 1320781444 407864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are nice mm
< 1320781445 436783 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor scone
< 1320781445 989323 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: making it amazing
< 1320781446 883554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1320781451 406885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tey're like
< 1320781452 44867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANNA
< 1320781452 461833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1320781454 826478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANNKA
< 1320781456 173306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1320781456 665748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1320781458 575292 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's a McDonalds McBiscuit. They taste worse than they look.
< 1320781461 4809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ANKA?
< 1320781463 26812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means duck
< 1320781464 898567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AEWFAWEGUWAGHE
< 1320781470 24708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe it's made from duck
< 1320781471 371246 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it is?
< 1320781471 635296 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcbiscuit
< 1320781474 131904 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good name
< 1320781477 115443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doubtful
< 1320781487 768569 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://swervechurch.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/6b7d841b6f6f35e6_m.jpg sure is.
< 1320781487 824707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes it is.
< 1320781487 909002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, are these... common?
< 1320781489 816842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i will find them on
< 1320781491 611211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the ikea site
< 1320781498 545118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I don't know any Swedish brand with a name like that
< 1320781501 231059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, do that
< 1320781505 353730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Tea_and_scones.jpg
< 1320781510 415658 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think McDonalds is the only place that carries them.
< 1320781511 602937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: where do you live?
< 1320781518 614915 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Colorado, US
< 1320781518 761791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90124690/ i think this is the same thing?? but different packaging and stuff
< 1320781519 861473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will soothe my eyes with scones that have not been mutilated.
< 1320781529 492003 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But, McDonalds is exceptionally common.
< 1320781534 707597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that /is/ gingerbread
< 1320781535 312783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: in Colorado you can find sausage, egg, and cheese biscuits that are not from a fast food chain, yes?
< 1320781537 232900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, there is no other Colorado to speak of.
< 1320781538 829919 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do other fast food places carry mcbiscuitalikes
< 1320781542 810503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pepparkakor
< 1320781543 303250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Never seen one.
< 1320781546 306057 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no expert on fast food
< 1320781548 838406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o
< 1320781549 445392 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: True, true.
< 1320781560 380247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, how do you do gingerbread for xmas over there?
< 1320781563 361231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh, well, in the south that's just a thing we do to biscuits, apparently.
< 1320781564 8505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whatever they are they're delicious, there's another one with almonds i think?
< 1320781566 467605 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But I tend to not assume people outside the US don't memorise a list of states.
< 1320781571 946203 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ah.
< 1320781579 690600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: possible, there are many variants of the basic recipe
< 1320781593 653562 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, s/don't//
< 1320781593 728958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I think if you mentioned a state most people here would recognise it as one, by and large.
< 1320781595 115516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: literally the name translates to "pepper cookies/biscuits/whatever"
< 1320781596 86029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I will soothe my eyes with scones that have not been mutilated.
< 1320781598 736154 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some gingerbread is good. other gingerbread is awful.
< 1320781601 86842 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Feh.
< 1320781602 891935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Let's be honest though, scones aren't actually all that good.
< 1320781607 304374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1320781608 444499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I know at least one recipe that have no pepper
< 1320781611 478079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1320781612 734348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean yes they're good.
< 1320781614 262109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not talk to you ever again.
< 1320781618 72410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But they're so easy to fuck up!
< 1320781620 912627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1320781622 568774 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You *know* you want biscuits & gravy.
< 1320781632 267641 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravy: it is delicious.
< 1320781632 439131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's like, you keep reaching for this unattainable state of perfect scone.
< 1320781637 161840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all you get are Failed Scones.
< 1320781640 645593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: anyway, how do you do gingerbread for xmas over there?
< 1320781642 85692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The average sconesperience is not good.
< 1320781646 873618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not like the IKEA ones?
< 1320781647 639326 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, you are just a terrible sconesmith.
< 1320781649 742176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not in that shape.
< 1320781654 809063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → food (non-scone).
< 1320781657 286232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK show me a good scone.
< 1320781665 569439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I will drive to Edinburgh.
< 1320781681 701826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, there are many shapes over here. Xmas trees. People (which sounds strange when you think about it), hearts. Circles.
< 1320781684 193677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1320781694 862629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the heart shape is probably most common
< 1320781729 374396 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haert shape?
< 1320781740 630199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said heart
< 1320781740 877271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Gingerbread_house_8.jpg challenge: eat without vomiting
< 1320781745 552835 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥, I assume.
< 1320781754 156779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes, what else?
< 1320781754 209276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ikea to drop famous Swedish food brands
< 1320781754 298548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 October 2011 | news Newsdesk
< 1320781754 351265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish furnishing giant Ikea is undergoing a change and will soon rid their food shelves of anything not bearing it’s name.
< 1320781754 351415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People outside of Sweden craving Swedish-brand eats have made a habit of frequenting Ikea stores around the world in order to find such things as Cloetta chocolate, Abba herring, Kalle's caviar spread, and cookies by Göteborgskex.
< 1320781755 545542 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, gingerbread.
< 1320781756 244526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But soon, those looking for a taste of Sweden will instead have to settle for Ikea-branded approximations following a decision by the company to move to own-branded foods.
< 1320781759 439376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1320781761 406140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1320781763 406998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1320781765 439787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1320781766 820024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Gingerbread_house_8.jpg challenge: eat without vomiting <-- what? It looks delicious
< 1320781779 789087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: though maybe a bit at a time
< 1320781782 879893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Good luck with the parts that are basically thick raw sugar :P
< 1320781796 184369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I wouldn't eat it all in one meal of course
< 1320781796 557548 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks too sugary for me
< 1320781800 552760 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably not that bad in the US, though.
< 1320781806 654349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I like sugar :P
< 1320781813 369925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that gingerbread isg ood gingrebread and not bad gingerbread
< 1320781813 422362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please don't mention anna anka in polite company
< 1320781817 529284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt it would be healthy though
< 1320781818 54563 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, jesus, I can find fucking lutefisk in the US, I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to find Swedish foods.
< 1320781822 195074 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only gingerbread houses i've had were bad gingerbread
< 1320781824 716468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds like a nursery rhyme
< 1320781837 420266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: have you gotten a digestive biscuit yet
< 1320781839 517713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: lutefisk is Norwegian when spelled like that at least.
< 1320781840 129959 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320781844 895785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What are your opinions on rich teas.
< 1320781847 294220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Swedish spelling is lutfisk.
< 1320781860 375325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: BTW get a fucking digestive and dunk it into some tea and eat it.
< 1320781861 884887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anyone under the age of 70 that eats lutfisl
< 1320781865 431599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lutfisk*
< 1320781877 689724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote rotting sea life
< 1320781879 655807 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I'm aware. Still, if I can find *lutefisk*, I'd imagine it's not hard to find anything Scandinavian. :)
< 1320781879 821541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :100)  think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat
< 1320781882 820244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/kitchen/2011_03_20-ShrimpGrits2.jpg oh my god this looks amazing.
< 1320781890 888819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm. Surströmming?
< 1320781891 3516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ;__;
< 1320781894 267118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :america is devil
< 1320781895 751275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :country
< 1320781903 518866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: if the answer is yes, then I'm scared.
< 1320781910 897289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should never have been exported
< 1320781911 997902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think most americans eat grits actually.
< 1320781937 982251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Might have to make a trip of it, but I have no doubt I could find it.
< 1320781941 490922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god
< 1320781944 776553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikea published a cookbook
< 1320781945 346070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1320781946 893337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/ikea-cook.png
< 1320781952 214773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(found when googling for ikea biscuits)
< 1320781957 840181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that butter pyramid oh my god
< 1320781984 296054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/orange-ikea.png :DDDD
< 1320781989 600868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: btw I suspect that in Sweden, lutfisk will be pretty much gone in 30-40 years from mainstream shops.
< 1320782013 444216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mmmmm. I too am a cocaine afficionado
< 1320782019 277263 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still fairly commonly consumed in rural areas of Minnesotta.
< 1320782019 329886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : look at that butter pyramid oh my god <-- sure that is butter?
< 1320782025 327500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/semlor-ikea.png "recipe contains semen"
< 1320782030 303842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes but
< 1320782032 873631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: look at the tiny eggs omg
< 1320782037 806426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the best way to list ingredients ever
< 1320782038 680305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought it was white chocolate...
< 1320782053 15119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nah, that's butter
< 1320782055 391863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure
< 1320782057 722461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: semen and coke: a hookers best griends.
< 1320782064 254340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait what are the white mountains to the left in the first picture then
< 1320782065 650881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's gingerbread cookies apparentl
< 1320782066 18019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1320782071 385173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and icing sugar?
< 1320782075 178447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1320782084 620778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where the ginger is there.
< 1320782087 701733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's the
< 1320782088 730084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|>
< 1320782089 832674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :triangle
< 1320782091 853601 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Seems it's actually really non-trivial to find surströmming in the US.
< 1320782092 3145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they do the ingredient lists like that in the book?
< 1320782096 11548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep!
< 1320782099 505636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is a 140 page coffee-table recipe book, containing 30 classic Swedish baking recipes--everything from small biscuits to large cakes. For each recipe, there are two images: one of the ingredients and one of the finished item."
< 1320782115 454315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hoped that meant it had no instructions
< 1320782117 382331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess it dose
< 1320782118 286803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does
< 1320782118 673949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so where is the scale for figuring out how to calculate the amount from the pictures
< 1320782119 681000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a crapshoot to see if it gets past customs; it'll either go through or get turned down for being rotten.
< 1320782135 701820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: swedes may be a little unfamiliar with this idea. but it's called approximation
< 1320782148 701911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know about it, I just don't like it
< 1320782186 651028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: besides calculating the area of the diagonal line in http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/orange-ikea.png seems non-trivial to me. And unlike the eggs in the first there is no known object to compare against
< 1320782188 239586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] designed perhaps for the tradition of "dunking" in cups of tea; hence preventing the collapse of the biscuit and ruining of the beverage."
< 1320782205 283943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's because you're not meant to calculate it
< 1320782221 276989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh
< 1320782224 588775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1320782229 967026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: pikhq_: monqy: apologise for oreos
< 1320782233 469495 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the three sticks of butter probably is a good reference point.
< 1320782236 228899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: never.
< 1320782241 432773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oreos are so bad
< 1320782242 355218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh there is a separate ingredient list?
< 1320782246 871532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1320782253 27594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you're meant to approximate using intuition
< 1320782256 533337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're not my favorite, no.
< 1320782258 286956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you know how they're meant to be chocolate flavoured
< 1320782258 898129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1320782260 501320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the black bits
< 1320782262 811868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are meant to taste like chocolate
< 1320782263 184294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1320782266 715621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :break one off sometime
< 1320782268 558928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chew on it
< 1320782269 96058 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oreos.........................................................
< 1320782270 173210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think about the taste
< 1320782271 802789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tell me honestly
< 1320782274 24144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it tastes like chocolate
< 1320782275 119908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't
< 1320782278 464604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what it tastes like?
< 1320782281 735744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blackness + sugar
< 1320782284 355532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wait what? The only sticks of butter I know of are 1-kg ones.
< 1320782286 477607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear america
< 1320782287 345319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocolate
< 1320782290 102720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not taste like blackness
< 1320782294 353538 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody find me an image macro with Shatner going "NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" and Nyan cat.
< 1320782295 667458 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cookies are good, but oreos are not them
< 1320782300 904252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: 3 kg butter? Come on
< 1320782312 786957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oreos COULD have been good
< 1320782320 567936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if the biscuit part actually tasted like chocolate
< 1320782322 998612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but you know what
< 1320782323 217007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, oreos are supposed to be chocolate?
< 1320782325 276127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: those already exists
< 1320782326 496809 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those not sticks of butter in http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/orange-ikea.png ?
< 1320782327 740152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE CALLED BOURBONS
< 1320782331 105185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :recipes use a lot of butter, sir.
< 1320782338 41735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO BASICALLY FUCK AMERICA???
< 1320782339 287173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes.
< 1320782351 549733 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as we all know, the USA pretty much sucks at chocolate.
< 1320782356 157632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: at least, if they're not intending to, they're quite obviously TRYING to emulate chocolate
< 1320782359 868736 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're a nation that seriously believes that Hershey's is good.
< 1320782373 673248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had hershey's
< 1320782375 657651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me quite happy
< 1320782376 158590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1320782377 726175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know
< 1320782380 758781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cadburys products in the us
< 1320782382 610557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sure, then look at the scale of the whole thing. That diagonal bar is like 80 cm from end to end...
< 1320782384 332719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are made completely different to in the uk
< 1320782386 762901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're poisoning your minds
< 1320782390 65931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making you think cadburys sucks
< 1320782391 959279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god it doesn't
< 1320782393 106371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come home to us
< 1320782395 236815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will show you chocolate
< 1320782397 593807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so good
< 1320782397 679919 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup, but luckily, Cadbury's is rare here.
< 1320782400 931559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that will generate a huge amount of food
< 1320782406 732988 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've had chocolate in the UK ... also had it in Paris so nya :P
< 1320782416 416839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you tasted real uk cadburys because
< 1320782417 799991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so good
< 1320782425 501423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man this reminds me of that daily mail article i found
< 1320782429 357207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it literally compared Milka chocolate to hitler
< 1320782433 53567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear to god
< 1320782437 400394 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have.
< 1320782437 829361 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that the US sucks at chocolate, we suck at food regulation.
< 1320782445 991465 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But I also made the mistake of trying Turkish Delight.
< 1320782446 317844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1275526/Cadbury-owner-plugs-inferior-Milka-bar-chocolate-lovers-say-Krafty-sideline-Dairy-Milk.html
< 1320782446 809035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE IT IS
< 1320782448 763031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they literally say
< 1320782451 180517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the nazis had milka
< 1320782455 52879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it
< 1320782455 609331 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder how anyone could think that earwax flavor in chocolate is good.
< 1320782456 418936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be
< 1320782457 66961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so amazed
< 1320782464 499380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Turkish Delight is, uh, yeah.
< 1320782464 994582 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our "chocolate" is generally made to the legal standard for what "chocolate" is.
< 1320782465 47802 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back.
< 1320782475 258204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you remember that Daily Mail article.
< 1320782478 167573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That I linked.
< 1320782481 894592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That compared Milka to Nazism.
< 1320782491 617722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: What are your opinions on rich teas.
< 1320782494 193953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eugh.
< 1320782497 268852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no.
< 1320782508 348875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE chocolate snobs would have you believe that Dairy Milik is cheap, bland and artificial, lacking depth and complexity. Waxy chocolate for the masses, they sneer, while nibbling on some ghastly lavender-infused, organic creation."
< 1320782508 962762 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/08/article-1275526-097A1C72000005DC-886_468x681.jpg
< 1320782509 185099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTUAL
< 1320782509 785248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING
< 1320782510 274734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUOTE
< 1320782511 134201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRECT
< 1320782511 639557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING
< 1320782513 586077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUOTE
< 1320782536 720343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dull and insipid, like Berne on a wet night" GOD
< 1320782544 625468 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, milk chocolate is terrible.
< 1320782549 624101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people who like milk chocolate should feel bad.
< 1320782556 187623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: have you tasted real uk cadburys because <-- the only real chocolate is from continental Europe IMO
< 1320782558 893348 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320782565 585227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly French or Belgian
< 1320782578 310550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The chocolate was created in 1901 by Swiss chocolate company Suchard. Both The Kaiser’s and Hitler’s troops took Milka chocolate to war.
< 1320782578 362918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1275526/Cadbury-owner-plugs-inferior-Milka-bar-chocolate-lovers-say-Krafty-sideline-Dairy-Milk.html#ixzz1d97FjOnQ"
< 1320782580 305596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i repeat
< 1320782581 418381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTUAL QUOTE
< 1320782583 57082 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, but your opinions are universally head-meltingly Vorpid so we all ignore them.
< 1320782584 331581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that tynt bullshit
< 1320782593 986682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, Switzerland is okay too
< 1320782603 692353 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: US milk chocolate is only 10% cocoa, and is generally made from milk that's gone a little bit bad.
< 1320782608 388402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what about 100% pure Valrona?
< 1320782613 715519 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm not referring to US any kind of chocolate.
< 1320782619 664602 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: US chocolate isn't chocolate, it's a joke.
< 1320782620 327293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling
< 1320782626 412936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valrhona
< 1320782628 438026 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: But even legit milk chocolate is terrible.
< 1320782631 956721 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jones’s paper [about classes over type constructors] appeared in 1993, the same year that monads became popular for I/O (Section 7).  "
< 1320782632 853043 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EU milk chocolate is 25% cocoa, and can't pull that shit.
< 1320782646 809147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway I quite like Rich Teas but the context has to be right.
< 1320782647 781745 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stuff in [] was my edit
< 1320782654 699347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They really rely on a high-quality, fresh biscuit and a good tea.
< 1320782661 926634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they don't.
< 1320782671 7121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do. You're just a bad richteasmith.
< 1320782695 846284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're made of loosely-caked crumbs which disintegrate when held in tea for more than a fraction of a second, and, unlike digestives, they are bland and joyless when eaten alone.
< 1320782723 196963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Damn, Scots must get really bad rich teas. They're quite structurally sound over here.
< 1320782725 706456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, digestives are better.
< 1320782741 926262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I prefer less milk in my chocolate. Try proper French chocolate some time. Tends to be expensive though
< 1320782744 564277 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im food envy
< 1320782747 718199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Join in the biscuit discussion!
< 1320782756 367235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Come to England. We will accept you.
< 1320782766 163927 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe when i can
< 1320782773 849701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to Scotland, we have haggis.
< 1320782774 678413 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a few years at least i cannot
< 1320782784 180775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Sneak.
< 1320782796 343498 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sneak across the atlantic.
< 1320782809 993032 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have, actually.
< 1320782817 891210 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus fuck that was good.
< 1320782824 549781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiptoe across the atlantic
< 1320782826 441596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, milk chocolate is nice.
< 1320782835 199673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only joyless people, or those who haven't actually had good milk chocolate, claim otherwise.
< 1320782841 538380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: US milk "chocolate" is shitty.
< 1320782843 529890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's saying it isn't except Gregor, and FFS he's anosmic.
< 1320782848 902708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So is Vorpal.
< 1320782853 633647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he doesn't count as a person.
< 1320782875 109434 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i have had good chocolate but i cannot recall
< 1320782877 568129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made with *spoiled milk* for goodness sake.
< 1320782880 917977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Vorpal is wittering on about what specific type of milk chocolate he likes.
< 1320782881 704689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure milk chocolate can be okay. But compare it to dark chocolate...
< 1320782882 522406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: come to the south. we have good food.
< 1320782883 828806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: actually I'm going to make a cup of hot chocolate now, From 100% pure Valrhona. I will however add just a tiny bit of sugar to that.
< 1320782886 950839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaan libcurl is way too big.
< 1320782887 963863 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no never
< 1320782894 160132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, he's talking about the ~best~ dark chocolate.
< 1320782898 22538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so your chocolate is more cheesy than your cheese?
< 1320782899 217175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i never want to do is go to the southe
< 1320782899 733006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no
< 1320782905 217288 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1320782906 583779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Milk chocolate is more enjoyable than 99% of dark chocolate and that's that.
< 1320782914 637962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not at all.
< 1320782916 892624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you can go south from California?
< 1320782920 163601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: cheese is typically made from extremely fresh milk....
< 1320782921 992218 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1320782922 356950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See exception (a) to my rule.
< 1320782926 494955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tastes just differ. I guess you don't have a grown up taste yet.
< 1320782928 469274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, enlighten CakeProphet.
< 1320782931 108466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to go to mexico either
< 1320782939 537947 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mexico good?
< 1320782939 659227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, you're just a member of "joyless people".
< 1320782948 925179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Cheese is either coagulated milk or coagulated, carefully rotten milk.
< 1320782956 850375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320782958 447080 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not rotten
< 1320782959 314119 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all.
< 1320782963 654808 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Re milk chocolate) Mind you I also hate milk :P
< 1320782963 815813 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coagulated, yes. soured, yes.
< 1320782969 621496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the milk is fresh when all of this happens.
< 1320782976 633500 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cheese is good. other cheese is bad.
< 1320782981 648848 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : - monqy
< 1320782986 771079 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allowed to have bacteria and fungi consume it and release waste products, yes.
< 1320782996 310149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a process we generally call "rotting".
< 1320782998 598571 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All cheese is bad. Other cheese is worse. - Gregor
< 1320783023 5373 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's similar sure, but with rotting there isn't any control over what kinds of bacteria
< 1320783034 425897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is bad. - Gregor
< 1320783049 813692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it was a jibe at American cheese food product, not a discussion on the manufacture of cheese, actually.
< 1320783055 148104 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaah -aaaaaaaah
< 1320783055 776804 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Milk chocolate fnarfs quite horrible.
< 1320783064 100106 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor smells - gregor's mother
< 1320783068 832981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You fnarf horrible.
< 1320783087 227487 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, right.
< 1320783101 460333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I would fnarf just fine if prepared properly.
< 1320783114 377028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :american cheese is awful
< 1320783129 590160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling it 'cheese' demeans cheese.
< 1320783132 615079 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320783143 399216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cheesoid' is perhaps sufficient.
< 1320783150 324942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choid.
< 1320783151 563575 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys have you ever had aerosol cheese? I can't recall if I ever have
< 1320783157 959046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320783158 196592 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: American cheese is a "wonderful" thing. It consists of a mixture of milk, whey, milkfat, milk protein concentrate, whey protein concentrate, salt, and an emulsifier.
< 1320783166 219648 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official support channel for Web o' Flies | Also official channel of Velveeta™ | Velveeta™: Why cheese, when you can Velveeta!® |  http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320783173 437744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You removed the assignments.
< 1320783180 452391 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: These things happen.
< 1320783192 76435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: atehwa will be sad.
< 1320783204 190432 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: American cheese food product is even more amazing: it can contain 0% milk!
< 1320783233 526737 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, and it's commonly *extruded* into individual slices.
< 1320783240 707611 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's available in *aerosol cans*.
< 1320783256 542698 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :America, Land of the Brave, Land of the Free, and Land of Crappy Cheese.
< 1320783259 181282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Easy_cheese2.jpg I shit you not.
< 1320783279 84382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm aware of such concoctions.
< 1320783280 515336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it even has the audacity to claim to be real cheese.
< 1320783310 112709 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, no it doesn't, it states quite clearly that it's a pressurised cheese snack.
< 1320783317 402709 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: To be fair, it's not actually aerosol in it :P
< 1320783320 450554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Picture taken by myself in my office, to help show a better picture of Easy Cheese."
< 1320783331 823614 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :provolone ftw
< 1320783332 764750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It then has a thing there that says "REAL Kraft™ CHEESE"
< 1320783345 403583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should call it Easy "Cheese"
< 1320783349 320381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just scare-quote every fake product
< 1320783351 593692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Kraft* cheese.
< 1320783355 170395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually there'll be like
< 1320783357 562591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kraft" Cheese
< 1320783360 760591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real cheese from fake kraft!
< 1320783362 247682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *cheese* cheese.
< 1320783385 723803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320783387 796049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : that the nazis had milka <-- well they obviously needed something to eat with their fanta
< 1320783405 401194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to boggle at KDE programs loading faster than Gnome programs nowadays
< 1320783410 25119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, would it be possible to put real cheese into a good spray?
< 1320783417 326080 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Wonder Bread, Spam and Easy Cheese: Best sandwich?
< 1320783422 703636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: No :P
< 1320783423 862287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that spray is a good idea at all
< 1320783429 596696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh god.
< 1320783436 577113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using Gnome 2's shell, so I'd assume that Gnome's libraries would be hotter in cache)
< 1320783441 108864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, maybe if you used cottage cheese or something?
< 1320783450 581530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW do you have any Bread Recommendations, I feel like the quality of bread in general has gone down in recent years?
< 1320783467 924217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just eats bread when I gets bread.
< 1320783469 280038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really, I'm having severe problem finding breads I like
< 1320783484 403057 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I recommend cake.
< 1320783484 527427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically prefer rolls to loaves
< 1320783484 902198 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@"I just eats bread when I gets bread"
< 1320783485 693607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And people who like milk chocolate should feel bad. <-- THAT'S IT YOU'RE AT WAR WITH NORWAY NOW
< 1320783499 836311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ditto.
< 1320783517 320078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, perpetually ten minutes in the past.
< 1320783521 367361 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer rice to bread (because it is an alternative)
< 1320783544 158822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because I find it hard to find a brand of loaf I'm OK with
< 1320783554 925248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically I don't mind sliced brown bread so much, whatever the manufacturer
< 1320783573 36676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the really cheap own-brand stuff tastes OK for me for the purposes for which I mostly use bread, although it's not so good for sandwiches)
< 1320783595 868887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution, just use fried chicken breasts as your bread.
< 1320783611 189613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fresh, unsliced rolls you can get from $supermarket_bakery are pretty good, but make for lousy toast.
< 1320783616 716412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Down_(sandwich)
< 1320783634 390720 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Praise be to America!
< 1320783640 517522 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use doughnuts as bread
< 1320783673 940077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What does that thing actually taste like.
< 1320783679 497200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like I know.
< 1320783685 92079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hate it, but... it's chicken and bacon...
< 1320783685 530219 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so much 100 percent premium chicken, we didn't have room for a bun."
< 1320783687 232457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know of noöne brave enough to try :P
< 1320783692 620949 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I can kind of imagine what it tastes like.
< 1320783699 511758 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's kfc chicken
< 1320783701 540897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i.e. gross
< 1320783717 543640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, I ate some just a few minutes ago, but it wasn't from KFC
< 1320783717 635577 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Luther_Burger
< 1320783721 864713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from $generic_fish_and_chip_shop
< 1320783723 845602 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes that
< 1320783743 618092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: KFC are the best common non-fish-and-chips fast food outlet I know of, but ISTR their fillets are pretty gross, so eh
< 1320783752 214945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Wh...
< 1320783759 977805 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe british kfc is better than american kfc
< 1320783787 226519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_Attack_Grill
< 1320783797 256917 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats Luther Burger
< 1320783807 298984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The establishment is a hospital theme restaurant: waitresses ("nurses") take orders ("prescriptions") from the customers ("patients"). A tag is wrapped on the patient's wrist showing which foods they order and a "doctor" examines the "patients" with a stethoscope. The menu includes "Single", "Double", "Triple", and "Quadruple Bypass" hamburgers"
< 1320783809 38168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, actually my favourite common fast food chain is Burger King
< 1320783815 112151 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Remember: this is a country that has such a thing as "deep fried butter".
< 1320783828 218368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : All cheese is bad. Other cheese is worse. - Gregor <-- really? Cheese in general is awesome, though there might be specific variants of cheese that I'm not personally a fan of.
< 1320783830 269866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't actually have any experience with Burger King so that may be
< 1320783833 509278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an aside, I went to a McDonalds in Canada once, and it was actually mindbogglingly superior to the version they had in the UK
< 1320783835 668888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is no fast food expert.
< 1320783845 313892 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't like any dairy products.
< 1320783845 739476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why North Americans hate UK fast food chains that much
< 1320783846 626655 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cheese may taste good, but it seems to fnarf terrible.
< 1320783850 206509 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's British KFC? Kent Fried Chicken?
< 1320783858 243243 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: McDonalds in Canada is, near I can tell, I totally unrelated chain to McDonalds everywhere else.
< 1320783858 415609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kent Fried Chicken :D
< 1320783863 520850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Luther_Burger <-- the crap?!
< 1320783867 914066 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/, I totally/, a totally/
< 1320783869 701094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmm
< 1320783871 265971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  There's British KFC? Kent Fried Chicken?
< 1320783873 582297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: fnarf?
< 1320783873 699819 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :713)  There's British KFC? Kent Fried Chicken?
< 1320783875 904868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what?
< 1320783876 695074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had pretty much the same menu items as in the UK
< 1320783879 340848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just meant different things
< 1320783880 849003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gregor's sense.
< 1320783891 229104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gregor doesn't have a sense of taste, he has a sense of fnarf.
< 1320783902 541397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAAAY
< 1320783905 204163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, what is actually in Kent, I am not entirely sure it exists.
< 1320783907 132033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gregor is anosmic.
< 1320783908 863608 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor "tasteless" richards
< 1320783910 600669 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: From what I understand, McDonalds is pretty much *identical* world-wide. Except apparently Canada?
< 1320783914 138603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY HYPOSMIC OR W/E
< 1320783923 377173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I thought Japanese McDonalds was wildly different.
< 1320783934 589878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonald's isn't anywhere near identical worldwide.
< 1320783939 278060 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very adaptive, actually.
< 1320783948 105312 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a few staples that are the same everywhere, but that's it.
< 1320783949 129156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vUALNnFd_tE/Sj8-aWMGzGI/AAAAAAAAAUk/l6SKDtZ-kH8/s320/bypassburger.jpg
< 1320783952 390320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reference
< 1320783955 61605 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Japanese McDonalds mostly just has racist marketing.
< 1320783958 372223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: if I eat hamburger in Sweden I do it at Max: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Max_Hamburgers
< 1320783961 233031 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose in Canada and Australia it's QFC, Quebec Fried Chicken or Queensland Fried Chicken respectively
< 1320783967 529904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, racist to whom?
< 1320783970 373919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I thought they had, like, really good beef or something. Or at least I've heard that.
< 1320783971 800742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Cows.
< 1320783976 801666 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Caucasians.
< 1320783978 513718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ (and other Americans who care): the UK version of McDonalds works pretty much via taking the basic ingredients of a McDonalds meal, submerging them in oil and then serving the result
< 1320783982 665820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Same thing.
< 1320783988 96315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from things like lettuce, which are just served raw
< 1320783990 674489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cowcasians.
< 1320783998 826849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sounds utterly authentic to US McDonalds.
< 1320783999 265295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They could optimise that. Oil lettuce.
< 1320784009 523032 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :double oil
< 1320784010 395056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chips/fries end up incredibly bland as a result, and they add vast amounts of salt to cover this up
< 1320784016 86193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, perpetually ten minutes in the past. <-- LIES
< 1320784026 224435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To be fair, the submerge-in-oil-and-serve-the-result method can sometimes be effective, cf. doughnuts.
< 1320784034 803070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, please tell me you waited ten minutes until saying that.
< 1320784037 164007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or the typical fish and chip shop
< 1320784044 464834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Indeed.
< 1320784046 854456 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perfectly authentic!
< 1320784050 273725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not complaining about that, so much as that they don't do anything to the ingredients beforehand
< 1320784062 65298 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My incredibly slow, inefficient, and badly written program is running
< 1320784063 371592 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_ (and other Americans who care): the UK version of McDonalds works pretty much via taking the basic ingredients of a McDonalds meal, submerging them in oil and then serving the result // ais523: I thought this was the UK's version of all cooking?
< 1320784076 480211 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'Cept curry.
< 1320784079 864190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to future civilisations: Yes, this is really what the 21st century is like.
< 1320784082 470086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oddly, no
< 1320784088 313956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That isn't even in line with the stereotypes.
< 1320784090 739140 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :future envy
< 1320784090 983043 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :future envy
< 1320784100 263415 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the stereotype is boiling, not frying. :)
< 1320784101 43219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're meant to think we exclusively eat ridiculously bland, quaint stuff.
< 1320784106 411604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no oil involved in that :P
< 1320784114 257744 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boil it until it the flavor's leached out!
< 1320784117 148197 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Curry is stolen :P
< 1320784120 683035 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fish and chips.
< 1320784128 585084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, why are you so envious of the future?
< 1320784128 815320 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil tea
< 1320784129 891762 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just that you can do even deep fried blandly.
< 1320784131 324452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: actually, most good UK food works via stealing it from someone else, then modifying it into something entirely different
< 1320784134 261669 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Meh, curry got stolen by everyone.
< 1320784139 724277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, please tell me you waited ten minutes until saying that. <-- more like 9 minutes
< 1320784142 972033 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: 'struth, even I stole it :P
< 1320784144 215199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sounds like you've never had fish and chips!!!!!!!
< 1320784146 690132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK version of curry is unlike that in India
< 1320784159 228294 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't like fish either 8-D
< 1320784161 978361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that imported Indian chefs can't cook it very well without special training
< 1320784163 38688 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Madras curry
< 1320784170 115044 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But I've had chicken and chips at a fish and chips place in the UK :P
< 1320784171 155929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe future isn't bad
< 1320784173 301649 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it most likely is
< 1320784175 69779 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curry is original, it didn't even really exist in India IIRC, it's just meant to taste vaguely Indian
< 1320784178 910140 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :future pity
< 1320784182 538497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You probably hate vinegar or something like that because you're not human.
< 1320784199 932666 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it's not like the UK is unique in having done strange things to curry.
< 1320784201 443994 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: Well, the term "curry" refers to a billion things.
< 1320784205 429675 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like vinegar!
< 1320784207 383253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmm, last Friday I broke the pattern, but previously, I'd been trying a large number of fast food outlets within walking distance of my route home
< 1320784210 623919 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, every Asian country has their own rendition of it by now.
< 1320784215 232457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ordering a chicken burger at each of them, to compare
< 1320784217 512510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, please consider that being a culinary nazi is rather pointless when one judges food on an entirely different basis to normal people.
< 1320784219 932284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then fish and chip chips are pretty much right up your alley? :P
< 1320784223 965535 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it basically means throwing a bunch of random spices together, right?
< 1320784227 862021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no cheese because I don't eat cheese, plus chips were appropriate
< 1320784233 128054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're pretty much designed as a host for ridiculous amounts of vinegar.
< 1320784237 782300 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320784249 932704 :variable!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-swggqfwewwjcnshd JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320784250 569959 :variable!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-swggqfwewwjcnshd QUIT :Changing host
< 1320784250 622417 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320784252 654766 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: It means "sauce".
< 1320784255 50424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would you believe it if I said I liked chips both with and without vinegar, but had a marginal preference for without?
< 1320784256 545956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't eat cheese?
< 1320784260 420510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why on earth
< 1320784260 926238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Shutuppayouface!
< 1320784263 472453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my parents *do not understand this*.
< 1320784265 181280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He's not allowed to.
< 1320784265 391170 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can imagine, this is really insanely varied.
< 1320784266 164137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite different to not liking vinegar
< 1320784271 704641 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They would be, except I don't like fish :(
< 1320784271 940073 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I mean the English meaning, not the meaning of whatever Hindi word it was borrowed from
< 1320784272 59990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doctors order?
< 1320784275 524793 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i like fish and chips
< 1320784276 629850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a huge range of bizarre food intolerances
< 1320784280 772957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see
< 1320784285 616081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They respond with astonishment when I saturate chips with vinegar.
< 1320784286 609120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some more specific than others
< 1320784286 859580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :(
< 1320784289 894045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: Ah. Yeah, that's just a vague imitation of Indian spicing.
< 1320784291 289629 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: Primarily coriander, cumin, chili peppers and typically turmeric.
< 1320784293 880505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ask ais523 about that time he was on a completely neutral drink!
< 1320784297 151226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neutral isn't the word.
< 1320784301 701709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of what the word would be.
< 1320784310 255280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, please tell me you waited ten minutes until saying that. <-- nope.
< 1320784310 504621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know I don't have any actual /allergies/
< 1320784310 625861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ph 7?
< 1320784312 474913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes well that is parents for you.
< 1320784317 732363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how specific are we talking about here?
< 1320784317 971634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I go a bit crazy if I eat the wrong things
< 1320784329 215585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we're not sure, the results were self-contradictory
< 1320784337 332755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and nobody will stop harping on about that time I drank some vinegar from the bottle.
< 1320784338 326740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you wait about 9 minutes though?
< 1320784341 385507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I...
< 1320784349 961828 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I may like vinegar, but WTF man.
< 1320784351 504158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a list of things that they don't think I'm intolerant to, but I shouldn't eat anyway in case I become allergic to them
< 1320784357 460733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was balsamic!
< 1320784366 839874 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's at least vaguely sane.
< 1320784370 2564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How do you distinguish between an existing tolerance and one that's developed by consuming it anyway :P
< 1320784379 643593 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have a friend who drinks pickle brine >_>
< 1320784388 658272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, people consume vinegar that isn't balsamic?
< 1320784396 419510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not a dietician
< 1320784405 508478 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apple Cider vinegar is OK ...
< 1320784415 478429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, malt vinegar is the default chip vinegar.
< 1320784416 102466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh...
< 1320784417 165877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it involved spending my time dealing with people like me, I probably wouldn't want to be either
< 1320784423 134309 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates malt vinegar.
< 1320784438 633152 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something about it that's just... wrong.
< 1320784440 621826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I might be mixing up my vinegars X-D
< 1320784442 886053 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite place it.
< 1320784446 246831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards the end, they basically gave up, concluding that there was a reasonably stable base of things that I could probably eat which was enough to live on
< 1320784447 963283 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sister is allergic to most raw fruits aside from citrus
< 1320784454 780511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, balsamic is the dark brown stuff.
< 1320784458 794487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm alergic to atoms.
< 1320784459 799530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could it be some weird form of hypochondria or placebo effect or such behind the contradicting results?
< 1320784468 879897 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Balsamic is the one made from grape juice.
< 1320784469 606469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used frequently on salads.
< 1320784473 85341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Isn't malt vinegar dark brown too...
< 1320784474 132481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's entirely possible
< 1320784477 512174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :  oerjan, please tell me you waited ten minutes until saying that. <-- more like 9 minutes <-- see? lies!
< 1320784479 958239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope, it's transparent.
< 1320784487 337669 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan
< 1320784488 388356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...
< 1320784494 177726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I stop being lawful good if I eat the wrong food, so it's obviously in my interest to avoid it
< 1320784495 846140 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uh, that's white vinegar.
< 1320784507 284107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, malt is light brown.
< 1320784509 788425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, it's that easy to stop you being lawful good?
< 1320784512 901635 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is generally made *from* malt vinegar, but only because that's cheap.
< 1320784514 821429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meet you in birmingham
< 1320784525 34058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's quite hard to get me to eat the wrong food, as a result
< 1320784529 348904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When distilling acetic acid, who cares what the source is? :)
< 1320784530 243040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't turn evil or anything
< 1320784533 979376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more… primal, or whatever
< 1320784540 807757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little hard to describe
< 1320784543 932035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, to remember after the event
< 1320784550 646764 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're lawful? Odd, most FOSS people are chaotic
< 1320784552 612956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just get confused because it looks clear when you put it on things.
< 1320784558 817876 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320784565 722752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: I've been repeatedly accused of being lawful good until I started believing it myself
< 1320784571 467759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: You probably hate vinegar or something like that because you're not human. <-- hey i don't like vinegar :(
< 1320784573 397604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's kind-of easy to see why, to be fair
< 1320784576 299960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So chaotic good then when you ate the wrong food?
< 1320784576 852246 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: "Lawful" says you want law and order, not that you support *the* law.
< 1320784586 109757 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but you're Norwegian.
< 1320784591 968257 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I know, but most FOSS people I want are chaotic even by that definition
< 1320784593 437823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: more utterly ranting and nonsensical
< 1320784594 570642 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1320784596 609216 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/want/know/
< 1320784598 445704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Would you be able to work on Feather in those conditions?
< 1320784600 381541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, think any typical YouTube user
< 1320784601 943438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound ideal for the purpose.
< 1320784608 947619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Gregor: You probably hate vinegar or something like that because you're not human. <-- hey i don't like vinegar :( <-- yes vinegar is horrible.
< 1320784609 337806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coherency is optional, after all.
< 1320784615 519496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you suck.
< 1320784621 489916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are, as mentioned earlier, not a human
< 1320784632 818660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not even sure what alignment that is
< 1320784632 871387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can work on Feather in normal conditions, actually
< 1320784640 487283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: neither am I, that's why I didn't call it one
< 1320784644 749834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vinegar is wonderful and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
< 1320784648 310613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably counts as true neutral via the defaulting rule
< 1320784649 68815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK do it.
< 1320784654 967854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1320784655 181285 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You need an extra dimension on the alignment chart.
< 1320784664 578379 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Smart/neutral/stupid".
< 1320784664 668001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you care /that much/ about Feather?
< 1320784669 426869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh
< 1320784670 431829 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be chaotic neutral stupid.
< 1320784673 265338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enough to tell you to work on it, yes.
< 1320784683 370090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, after working on Feather for a few hours, it takes me several weeks to recover
< 1320784689 282976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm perfectly sane when the process /stars/
< 1320784690 599149 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Feather?
< 1320784692 250800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/starts/
< 1320784695 143352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: don't ask that question!
< 1320784704 350489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can we train the bots to just get rid of anyone who asks what Feather is?
< 1320784715 437418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I think D&D traditionally represents that as the Int value
< 1320784717 361233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1320784721 230623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably via humane means?
< 1320784722 439401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but only if you work on feather for me
< 1320784727 682756 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants Feather
< 1320784737 18635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then we'd be able to sensibly answer the question!
< 1320784738 460223 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but D&D stats suck.
< 1320784743 824158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather. anyone worthy of knowing more than is written on that page gets to find out how to get a greppable copy of the logs themselves
< 1320784748 511363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: and read every log containing "feather"
< 1320784749 758808 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Wisdom" is your ability to see things for goodness sake.
< 1320784756 410496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: true.
< 1320784759 583123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you think implementing feather will prove it sensible?
< 1320784769 64985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: wait isn't Wis also for wizard spell casting? Or is that Int?
< 1320784773 889844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: let's see… the sanest (but misleading) answer is "it's an inside joke", any /correct/ answer would be indistinguishable from trolling
< 1320784776 148733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: did you wait about 9 minutes though? <-- no, i responded when i got to it.
< 1320784794 506278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Int is wizard spell casting.
< 1320784795 655371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe Feather would make sense, if only I had an impl of it
< 1320784798 85798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I think sorcerers use Cha or some stupid thingy though?
< 1320784804 6562 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wis is cleric/druid spell casting.
< 1320784804 254969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which never made any sense to me
< 1320784808 829217 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cha is sorcerers.
< 1320784815 557760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cha is force of personality
< 1320784817 981605 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't care about the casting state for non-primary casters.
< 1320784821 421990 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My incredibly badly written bad program is essentially a ridiculously inefficient variant of Dijkstra's algorithm
< 1320784821 549793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm
< 1320784824 605085 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/state/stats/
< 1320784827 524196 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designed to write Piet programs
< 1320784839 210433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could eating the right sort of food cause you to code more Feather?
< 1320784867 339922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that sorcerers are people who impose their will on the world just by being that badass
< 1320784870 763474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what I asked.
< 1320784879 561770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I don't care about the casting state for non-primary casters. <-- wait, who else can cast than those we mentioned so far?
< 1320784886 868829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: man, i gotta become a sorceror
< 1320784888 955426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than working out how to cast magic mathematically / thaumaturgically / whatever, they just glare at reality until it does what they want
< 1320784892 198067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, I must have missed it what with the multiple convos going on at the same time
< 1320784926 586245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rangers, paladins
< 1320784934 579636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of custom and prestige classes, as always
< 1320784934 918353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : helloerjan <-- hi monqy
< 1320784935 638419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1320784946 225736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well I never really cared about those
< 1320784965 16652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're talking 4th edition, everyone casts
< 1320784969 151549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320784970 534485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1320784974 593308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact everyone is identical, in order to make the classes balanced, just with different flavour
< 1320784977 924157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it's not called spells
< 1320784991 286037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used whatever system NWN1 uses. 3 iirc?
< 1320784999 243474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : more… primal, or whatever <-- "normal"?
< 1320785012 38770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 4th edition class abilities, even the ones that are called nonmagical, make no sense whatsoever
< 1320785021 239553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you are NEVER going to catch up at this rate
< 1320785021 292137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no
< 1320785025 601523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, umm, a lot like being drunk
< 1320785033 701097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, how other people act when they're drunk
< 1320785056 561703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get really emotional, and don't bother with trying to act sanely at all
< 1320785066 551258 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Rangers, paladins, bards, splatbooks.
< 1320785066 643488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got into fights sometimes in that state, too
< 1320785073 659638 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everybody* forgets about bards!
< 1320785077 802425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: where does the name "splatbooks" come from?
< 1320785082 755962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I consider bards primary casters
< 1320785083 365833 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No idea.
< 1320785090 491083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the gnu tla of tabletop rpgs??? thx
< 1320785094 728383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having played them at least once, possibly twice
< 1320785097 140868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the monotone
< 1320785101 756645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Rangers, paladins, bards, splatbooks. <-- splatbooks? What?
< 1320785103 383035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are basically the only elements of any set i am interested in
< 1320785105 384104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that
< 1320785111 711589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: you suck. <-- NO U
< 1320785112 878003 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "splatbooks" are addon bullshit books.
< 1320785117 630922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1320785123 323451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're what people try to sell you once you already have the rules
< 1320785137 240729 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well, there's also the more reasonable addon books. Those ones are in the D20 SRD, though.
< 1320785144 331058 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. psionics handbook)
< 1320785152 661404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I mostly played D&D through NWN1. I think the only pen & paper campaign I ever did used GURPS + a few house rules
< 1320785164 994838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was several years ago though
< 1320785168 47786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember much of it
< 1320785169 199061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Neverwinter Nights 1 is based on D&D 3.0
< 1320785173 543217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right
< 1320785181 835313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a few bugfixes taken from 3.5 or elsewhere
< 1320785200 378975 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The distinction between 3.0 and 3.5 is fairly minor, though.
< 1320785206 737789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320785212 713189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're noticeably different, in that you'll notice the differences
< 1320785218 265142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you won't care all that much about them
< 1320785225 925910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320785229 117522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noticeably different in that the differences are merely noticeable
< 1320785231 709295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than being major
< 1320785232 219155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D 4 sounds horrible
< 1320785243 341535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's basically an entirely different game from 1..3
< 1320785252 237058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some interest as a wargame
< 1320785258 635871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't seem like a sensible basis for an RPG
< 1320785263 146469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on the other hand I know a guy who refuses to play any D&D apart from AD&D 1. I don't understand why.
< 1320785266 901632 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer GURPS anyway
< 1320785278 259616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: GURPS has interesting grappling :P
< 1320785278 504777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, D&D has got a lot less lethal over time
< 1320785283 285273 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GURPS is a really fun system, though even *less* balanced than D&D.
< 1320785297 455990 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say again?
< 1320785306 350339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GURPS is what you get if you combine every roleplay concept ever together in one RPG
< 1320785306 936801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably impossible to be both balanced and generic, though.
< 1320785308 784093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unehlfpul :'(
< 1320785310 712085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try to make the rules cover all of tehm
< 1320785319 891999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, I'm trying to figure out what you mean by the tla and the monotone
< 1320785321 780554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: you are NEVER going to catch up at this rate <-- plausible.
< 1320785324 470503 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Works surprisingly well, considering.
< 1320785329 862544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I feel that the RPG systems exist, but I don't know what they are
< 1320785334 2804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, if D&D is the SVN, or the git, or whatever you think it analogises closest to
< 1320785339 346691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : GURPS is what you get if you combine every roleplay concept ever together in one RPG <-- yes kind of
< 1320785350 319240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it is GURPS that have the insane grappling rules, isn't it?
< 1320785352 416138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it D&D
< 1320785356 929761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, GURPS ~ DCSS?
< 1320785357 653699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever grappled in either
< 1320785364 896374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :understanding through analogy is difficult :D
< 1320785369 565674 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: D&D has the non-functioning grappling rules.
< 1320785370 211383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: D&D's grappling rules are vaguely tacked on and look a little out of place
< 1320785383 718557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they work much better in 3rd edition than they did in previous versions
< 1320785384 343956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I mean the one with really really complex one
< 1320785385 423166 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember how, but they actually break.
< 1320785394 390119 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be D&D.
< 1320785397 619920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1320785398 119164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. they look weird and only break occasionally, rather than looking weird and breaking all the time)
< 1320785407 848221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320785411 382438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: break in what way?
< 1320785416 277998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could compare D&D 3 to svn decently
< 1320785435 786879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in references to table entry 59 in a 50 entry long table?
< 1320785436 144241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't seen the 2nd edition "wrestling table", but it was apparently ridiculous
< 1320785440 840314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in 3rd ed, it's just fiddly
< 1320785444 308494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1320785444 453931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and broken as in game balance
< 1320785445 470094 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They lead you into undefined semantics.
< 1320785450 854684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: :D
< 1320785462 858737 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens up http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2010-12-14.txt and rolls eyes at "00:04:11: * oerjan ponders making a joke page for Feather"
< 1320785463 847295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could use DF's combat mechanics for that kind of thing?
< 1320785502 426771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's 4, then? svk?
< 1320785518 499334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: doing DF combat mechanics would only ever work in a computerised RPG. It would be unfeasible to do it for a pen & paper RPG
< 1320785520 559240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-12-14 has a nicer UI
< 1320785528 152591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: but that log is much newer than feather discussions
< 1320785529 848391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: too much calculation involved. You would spend ages for each turn
< 1320785543 182813 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I mean using DF for the combat, duh
< 1320785545 4980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: try !logs to get an rsync mirror of the logs then grep -i 'ais.*feather' ????-??-??.txt
< 1320785548 156277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I can mentally construct the VCS analogue of 4, but I'm not sure it exists
< 1320785551 19882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah
< 1320785559 16163 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!los
< 1320785560 292120 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs
< 1320785564 374398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably involve Facebook in some way, though
< 1320785570 520783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D
< 1320785572 13446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, that sounds like it needs making
< 1320785578 543413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe Fossil? that has a wiki
< 1320785589 901037 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I must figure out rsync
< 1320785597 830579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: or hg
< 1320785602 276651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1320785614 395328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pastelogs ais523.*Feather
< 1320785617 391338 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what any of this even is, really
< 1320785619 412765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs ais523.*Feather
< 1320785627 498427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: good, you possibly don't want to
< 1320785633 77747 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more inclined to say "imagine RCS, except done today, and in Python".
< 1320785634 464936 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, rsync and hg and all taht
< 1320785635 425964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, more likely you simply won't understand it
< 1320785640 80200 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28875
< 1320785650 28189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: feather is complicated. It involves time travel. And headaches.
< 1320785666 880789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You have chosen to open: paste.28875 which is: a 23600 file"
< 1320785668 55895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what, that would be hg or bzr?
< 1320785678 319549 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Neither.
< 1320785681 965923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm
< 1320785687 430615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: that link is relevant
< 1320785704 379885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I've been working on Feather for /three years/ now?
< 1320785713 436660 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: RCS is CVS, single-user.
< 1320785715 942799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FSVO working
< 1320785718 908227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Darth_Cliche opens up http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2010-12-14.txt and rolls eyes at "00:04:11: * oerjan ponders making a joke page for Feather" <-- well i did, didn't i?
< 1320785720 534822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm
< 1320785720 634385 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oversimplification I know)
< 1320785726 501362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: so what would it be in python then
< 1320785735 498745 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That but ridiculous.
< 1320785740 895210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320785743 862502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : tusho: you would make the jquery UI available as IO commands that Feather could use
< 1320785752 32005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why would it make sense to compare RPG systems to VCSes?
< 1320785759 804866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want to know what the context of that is
< 1320785765 89567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will proceed to not find out
< 1320785771 648055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: likewise ;)
< 1320785791 797319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-10-19.txt:12:02:24:  hmm... figuring out how to hot-change parts of a Feather program while it's running is a major problem
< 1320785792 901706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could imagine that with Sgeo... But with you!?
< 1320785797 811872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I still haven't solved that one
< 1320785811 661555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey, ais523 is the one who said that line
< 1320785813 381855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm coming across more fundamental problems in my attempt to get far enough to encounter that one
< 1320785819 444445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes but directed to you
< 1320785825 19779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: like i said, let's not find out
< 1320785827 967868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the current problem?
< 1320785870 123258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: writing an initial interpreter
< 1320785879 453735 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Feather is a language involving time travel, which has evolved into an inside joke about it driving ais insane?
< 1320785896 935380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Caught up, also, good night
< 1320785899 391174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the solution we worked out between us of using CPS to get complete metacircularity will work
< 1320785901 714679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't tried it yet
< 1320785912 41780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: that's a good approximation, I think
< 1320785926 672712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /does/ drive me insane, and this has happened enough to become an inside joke
< 1320785927 556040 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320785952 506898 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how exactly are you supposed to implement it, anwyay?
< 1320785961 373432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: it doesn't actually involve travel
< 1320785963 507737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Grapple <-- yeah this looks complicated. Especially given all the tables too
< 1320785963 790785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the illusion of such
< 1320785985 778448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: part of the problem is that a Feather interp can only be implemented in Feather
< 1320785990 236622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm trying to figure out how to get started
< 1320786020 291328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shouldn't a method similar to that of CLC-INTERCAL work?
< 1320786021 784353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neutrino computer
< 1320786026 355148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the trick, as far as I can tell, is that although a Feather interp must be written in Feather, a Feather-interp-in-Feather might potentially be runnable in something that isn't a Feather interp, and so can be written in another language)
< 1320786031 607044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you start off with something, then you modify it into being Feather
< 1320786047 707768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *retroactively modify it into being Feather
< 1320786051 737839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, obviously
< 1320786066 236687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you seriously think I /hadn't/ thought of that?
< 1320786071 877541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no
< 1320786076 318486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you never know
< 1320786093 484113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-04-01.txt:23:06:05:  cpt_obvious: I suggest you ask in #feather-lang, I think it's empty atm so it'll be safe to ask
< 1320786113 511569 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Britons: http://www.telltalegames.com/wallaceandgromit
< 1320786127 910450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Old, no?
< 1320786143 450751 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'snot new, it's old enough for me to actually buy (read: now cheap :P )
< 1320786145 999875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliott solved a couple of major Feather-related problems of mine, anyway
< 1320786156 186467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, i did?
< 1320786158 626035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right
< 1320786161 620631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have i mentioned that time someone from telltale was on esowiki??
< 1320786163 893435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so good
< 1320786164 394181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which ones?
< 1320786173 160290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the one related to eigenratios
< 1320786207 329573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yes
< 1320786221 274165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, now I can't remember the solution
< 1320786245 567731 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how goes Scape🐐?
< 1320786254 960653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not as well as I'd like
< 1320786266 735186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps I should implement Feather just to get elliott to implement scapegoat
< 1320786287 115897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps even implement scapegoat myself, but the problem is that when elliott writes a program, it's superior to everyone else's programs that do the same thing
< 1320786309 747957 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except mine)
< 1320786321 750965 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make a good esolang, you need a shiny new concept
< 1320786328 220094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what really? Or is that just what he thinks?
< 1320786330 683079 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a new take on an old concept
< 1320786331 47488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Scapegoat has been on the backburner pending a sufficiently interesting breakthrough for me to be jolted into beginning
< 1320786372 304906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g. a good scapegoat diff algorithm
< 1320786374 240841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I thought you'd already started
< 1320786382 289975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I have code
< 1320786389 708908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more the proof of concept type
< 1320786396 570928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does anyone have any feedback on Web of Lies yet?
< 1320786408 303879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still doesn't work on a machine that i don't have to talk to via qemu
< 1320786428 100190 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Never made it work >_>
< 1320786429 1821 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you mean by retroactively modifying another language into Feather, anyway?
< 1320786442 714907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: changing it so that it was Feather all along
< 1320786452 577360 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how?
< 1320786452 698362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, you're getting dangerously close to me having to think about the answers
< 1320786460 692205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than typing them out from memory
< 1320786466 524084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's always vaguely dangerous
< 1320786652 551106 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320786676 842075 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche, by using Feather, of course
< 1320786718 452498 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there some description of feather somewhere?
< 1320786759 848841 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320786774 762589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh no, not you too
< 1320786775 178203 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, I'm Taneb!
< 1320786782 637801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the short answer is: no
< 1320786791 335942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: grep -r feather
< 1320786819 899297 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_
< 1320786828 708659 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320786834 591799 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320786837 616579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmkay, never mind then
< 1320786908 210484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know you were asking about kerio earlier? this is self-parody, but still a good summary: http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?711
< 1320786955 255410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, good, paxed knows how to use eir op privileges
< 1320786970 581917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION teaches the -minecraft school of op privilege usage
< 1320786974 961180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: e rarely does
< 1320786981 829659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hire more ops
< 1320786989 869415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't hesitate when he thinks someone is trolling
< 1320787007 244541 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUESTION! Are all cellular automatons self-modifying?
< 1320787025 64634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: arguably, none are
< 1320787035 183723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the rules for CA update were taken from the playfield
< 1320787038 797502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that might be an interesting langauge
< 1320787040 283785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language
< 1320787043 402545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably wouldn't be
< 1320787091 510620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've told kerio python sucks, right? maybe e just doesn't realise
< 1320787103 356748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, although not in those words
< 1320787112 220495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you're not being clear enough :)
< 1320787125 270324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, Rodney is a Perl script that doesn't exactly follow best practices
< 1320787144 532028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to load a module, it used an old-fashioned syntax whose difference from the current one is that it runs at runtime not compile-time, and you have to handle errors manually
< 1320787151 110204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ignored the error code
< 1320787165 660149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which made debugging it really confusing
< 1320787183 989813 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, it used require instead of use?
< 1320787191 188090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, it used do
< 1320787195 511874 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.....
< 1320787200 269054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to look up that meaning of do when I saw Rodney
< 1320787200 393409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun.
< 1320787209 780612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?470 good quote
< 1320787211 302633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :require is at least vaguely useful
< 1320787215 403964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I use do in my words.pl script currently.
< 1320787217 144297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually.
< 1320787219 670763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to load the data files.
< 1320787230 730189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: do you at least check $@ afterwards?
< 1320787235 384265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1320787241 37252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's more than Rodney did
< 1320787253 121769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I improved Rodney massively by suggesting adding "or die $@" at the end of the do line
< 1320787287 830465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes it's always do or die with these things.
< 1320787290 413406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>'
< 1320787312 842988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that joke doesn't count, the syntax was intentionally designed to make it possible, I think
< 1320787334 686679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I recently learnt that the actual original reason barewords existed in Perl was to make it easier to write poems that were syntactically valid Perl
< 1320787343 570034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow
< 1320787357 621031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ala black perl
< 1320787362 871501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that one of Larry Wall's coworkers was a poet
< 1320787393 106294 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has written poems in modern Perl 5.
< 1320787398 518266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm cool.
< 1320787408 963100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it still accepts barewords for backwards compatibility
< 1320787415 22939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of both old programs and poetry, I guess
< 1320787435 865295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 5 does not
< 1320787475 523889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in much the same way there is little difference between code and data.
< 1320787480 425564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same can be said of programs and poetry.
< 1320787567 731046 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to delete User:Taneb/Binary Variety Pack
< 1320787572 310587 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a stupid idea
< 1320787610 682344 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, I don't know how to delete pages?
< 1320787613 547766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't esolangs.org/wiki where stupid ideas go to die?
< 1320787615 429811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can't
< 1320787679 71419 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone delete it for me?
< 1320787712 23204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend making a RfD
< 1320787715 627021 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320787716 20033 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320787716 73140 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320787721 85040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't
< 1320787734 444368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, now you can
< 1320787744 531358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do? make a backup?
< 1320787751 11778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: redirects for deletion?
< 1320787753 144169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked at it :P
< 1320787758 659391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let's just move it to the mainspace
< 1320787762 472959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Taneb has no right to want it deleted!
< 1320787772 857205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: requests. is that not the wikipedia thing?
< 1320787776 112408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while.
< 1320787776 912993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's afd
< 1320787780 820945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1320787784 580774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d = discussion
< 1320787785 464086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not deletion
< 1320787789 779725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that was a weird Firefox bug
< 1320787801 155115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just highlighted some text and then dragged it to the Firefox search bug
< 1320787809 878298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was deletion at one point wasn't it?
< 1320787816 857126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it ended up in the middle of the greyed-out text that says what search engine it's set to
< 1320787820 386656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also greyed-out
< 1320787835 209228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost as weird as Konversation preserving its syntax highlighting if you copy and paste into the /topic dialogue box
< 1320787837 549463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it was votes for deletion
< 1320787851 844678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's very reproducible, iirc
< 1320787855 476029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, as the client itself is set to white on black, and the /topic box is generally black on white, makes it hard to read)
< 1320787856 459863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably pretty low priority
< 1320787862 389869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say it was unreproducible
< 1320787866 52569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it was weird
< 1320787867 578204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: white on black? :(
< 1320787872 510096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why there has to be a correlation
< 1320787891 318115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I prefer dark colours to predominate on my computer screen, it becomes easier to look at for extended periods of time
< 1320787897 805975 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320787901 450561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would accept off-white on dark grey
< 1320787935 505064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the foreground isn't pure white, IIRC
< 1320787937 386222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it might be
< 1320787941 974365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background is pure black, I think
< 1320787949 862515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own comments are light red, nickpings are bright red
< 1320787953 921590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background's the main problem
< 1320787956 743354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and notices and server messages are dark yellow
< 1320787958 10267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is grey on faded blue for topic.
< 1320788003 267888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why does recursive grep default to recursively grepping stdin?
< 1320788010 639711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely specifying -r is a clue that stdin isn't a good place to read from?
< 1320788033 835693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not even gnu people think tools should second-guess you, usually
< 1320788040 423595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: unix philosophy
< 1320788044 388919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right
< 1320788046 505004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should maybe error out according to gnu design
< 1320788050 364121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it definitely shouldn't default to . or anything
< 1320788052 503934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's documented behaviour, it's not guessing, I suppose
< 1320788064 462521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's second-guessing, just not first-guessing
< 1320788071 722570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erroring on -r would make sense
< 1320788089 879753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it when I can't tell whether a program is waiting on a long-running disk/CPU calculation, or waiting on stdin
< 1320788098 493335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would make sense for gnu design, not unix design
< 1320788107 66356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that should be solved some other way
< 1320788114 119293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminals should indicate when they want input
< 1320788129 440677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they /do/ (see IO::Pty::HalfDuplex)
< 1320788129 700437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., I don't think an input cursor should be displayed when input isn't desired
< 1320788135 39129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not normally in a user-visible way
< 1320788146 165530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IPHD is both awesome and crazy, incidentally; I didn't write it, but I envy it)
< 1320788146 813966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that works better with line cursors than block)
< 1320788152 858278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since it's less obtrusive and thus less jarring)
< 1320788180 163009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, how is it reported?
< 1320788188 593262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: select() showing the tty is ready for writing?
< 1320788224 413234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by reads blocking until the terminal is ready to receive input
< 1320788228 581353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the HalfDuplex bit is about
< 1320788244 974969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofc that isn't inherent to the way the module works internally, just the way it's designed to be used
< 1320788278 694382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I mean, how is it implemented internally
< 1320788293 51544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oh, ugly
< 1320788295 671295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on all POSIXy platforms but BSD, using job contorl
< 1320788297 879830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*control
< 1320788306 359404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pretends to be a shell that just backgrounded the program
< 1320788310 107121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why does my select() solution not work? because it'd report being ready for writing even before it /blocks/ on reading?
< 1320788318 880452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it gets a signal when the program's ready for input
< 1320788320 442359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ofc
< 1320788325 492498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1320788331 829277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ready for writing until the write buffer is filled
< 1320788338 2474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In particular, programs like qemu and telnet cannot be expected to ever work with this."
< 1320788338 895414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1320788364 775481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it with telnet/ssh by having a helper program at the other end, I guess
< 1320788423 857894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so does taeb use that?
< 1320788429 85783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320788437 928905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of its development was driven by a desire to use it in TAEB
< 1320788446 325958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's how I know about it
< 1320788547 760475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see what it does on BSD sometime
< 1320788554 906938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I don't fully understand, but it involves a debug API)
< 1320788663 991570 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320788691 252093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320788900 150263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why do ansi terminal codes suck :(
< 1320788916 509687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sturgeon's law?
< 1320788922 498556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no but i mean
< 1320788928 655179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how you can scroll up in a terminal
< 1320788963 51921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many terminals have that feature, yes
< 1320788975 675611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a lie
< 1320788983 892020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually can't modify any lines above the actual visible size of the terminal
< 1320788983 944727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1320788988 73254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance
< 1320788997 301129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal is 24 lines high? my program can do 24 progress bars
< 1320789001 377944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean that the scrollback is lying to you in that they aren't actually part of the terminal?
< 1320789001 621655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you could have one above it
< 1320789004 304094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't change
< 1320789006 191062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes >:(
< 1320789012 285452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you /expect/ them to be?
< 1320789029 786124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because the size of a viewport should not affect the size of the underlying medium?
< 1320789032 144814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really needs to unsubscribe from the Golly mailing list.
< 1320789036 232917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pdfs don't get smaller when i resize evince
< 1320789043 217798 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the terminal program to treat the scrollback buffer as part of the visible screen
< 1320789056 295461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm tempted
< 1320789059 166435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: using programs like tmux, you can have a viewport a different size from the terminal itself
< 1320789060 747611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't the terminal just grow by one line every line?
< 1320789071 103391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, most programs assume terminals have a vaguely consistent size
< 1320789074 993787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so? it's still stupid that this is how they behave by default >:(
< 1320789078 940786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1320789082 867432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terminal viewport size makes sense
< 1320789085 941760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff on the alternate screen
< 1320789090 99322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for showing stuff at the correct width
< 1320789096 70849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forbidding modifications above the viewport is dumb dumb dumb
< 1320789108 483435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if a program scrolled its output sideways rather than upwards?
< 1320789110 957045 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'll mess up "full screen" applications though
< 1320789142 30118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those programs are bad
< 1320789161 361733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could do your own scrollback in alt screen
< 1320789166 529761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what you're really saying is, "terminal programs don't act the way I want them to"
< 1320789180 302183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that is indeed the basis of my complaint
< 1320789185 53511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you complain when programs work the way you want them to?
< 1320789225 62302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine he consider what the majority would want first
< 1320789225 550350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm
< 1320789227 555947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :before complaining
< 1320789231 176849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing ais523 that is
< 1320789240 440236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sometimes, but not necessarily
< 1320789249 480048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320789269 579931 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the needs of the me outweigh the needs of the many, or few
< 1320789277 786777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, what's the appropriate reaction to someone who says they're having problems getting Pulseaudio working on Windows?
< 1320789298 402909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /ignore, delete from all contact lists, deny existence of in future, avoid in real life
< 1320789299 212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did this actually happen? Where?
< 1320789331 753676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, and telling you would probably get me into trouble
< 1320789343 438781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it on irc though? Mailing list? reddit?
< 1320789348 81886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC
< 1320789350 887490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320789357 496896 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: help them get pulseaudio working in windows, should prove interesting
< 1320789361 193461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out why that's relevant
< 1320789361 442300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so +s channel then?
< 1320789370 841150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I assume so
< 1320789376 857134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1320789380 800523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you check a channel for +sness? mode?
< 1320789396 394305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are they a member of the UNDEAD?
< 1320789403 404385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how would I know?
< 1320789406 388424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in my client /mode prints the mode of the current channel if given no parameters
< 1320789410 371917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it could be a channel for the UNDEAD
< 1320789412 514842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's likely to be unlikely, though
< 1320789427 423651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, in this client, /mode-ing a channel prints its mode /in that channel/
< 1320789430 923583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I couldn't find its answer
< 1320789433 314265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320789435 55035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a +s channel
< 1320789446 342092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does "likely to be unlikely" differ from a plain "unlikely"?
< 1320789460 773927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1320789466 773369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you used it
< 1320789468 237320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it implies there's a chance it isn't unlikely
< 1320789472 239547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably for a reason
< 1320789481 566602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320789485 705448 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was thinking about that too
< 1320789522 689876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it kind of makes sense, but I'm not sure I can think of an actual situation it really makes sense to use that instead of a plain "unlikely"
< 1320789567 718190 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain unlikely implies that you know the likelihood
< 1320789595 240455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess so
< 1320789604 286677 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likely to be unlikely means there's some uncertainty in the likelihood
< 1320789613 118365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, "likely to be unlikely" sounds awkward
< 1320790123 634715 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320790386 24782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh /no/
< 1320790404 726659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1320790427 110118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I just figured out a sufficient amount of a protoproto@ that I could even implement it
< 1320790440 815820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320790463 634113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps you should do so, for practice
< 1320790477 583214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I intend to, it's just frightening
< 1320790532 778909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have I mentioned that one of my main requirements for the portability of @ is that you can get a minimal graphics-keyboard-and-mouse-with-no-special-IO-drivers-or-support @ up and running from only the portable system sources, ~3000 lines of python, and a few hundred lines of unportable @ driver code plugging into the python?
< 1320790540 207720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(python deliberately picked as an unexpressive and boring language)
< 1320790562 575409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, compiled sources, that is; whereby "compiled" I mean preparsed
< 1320790573 993652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's how you develop them, anyway; @ code isn't text at any stage
< 1320790622 208633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems reasonable
< 1320790637 816873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3000 is an overestimate, really
< 1320790655 299720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the abstract machine it's all based on to be simple enough to implement in just about anything
< 1320790659 986059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably not brainfuck without some pain
< 1320790672 705661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda!
< 1320790676 233433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :)
< 1320790693 117927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that if @ gets any use at all, it will be through a "simulator" on top of unix
< 1320790701 2350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even one written in python
< 1320790714 793036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run your server on @ by having standard debian beneath it and just having it run the @ simulator and nothing else
< 1320790724 380186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and connect to that from a window on your local unix machine with @ networking
< 1320790824 793039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar to Squeak in this way, really
< 1320790830 991170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with even less integration, and intentionally so
< 1320790847 28023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only way you should even be able to access your local filesystem is over ssh or whatever
< 1320790868 323625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just using a VM?
< 1320790870 518406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and running it in that?
< 1320790874 788551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define VM?
< 1320790886 987285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean VirtualBox or qemu or w/e?
< 1320790896 447840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320790900 858614 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-75.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320790915 860930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, what's the point? that's just an unnecessary layer of abstraction as opposed to running an implementation hosted on top of unix
< 1320790928 489397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll still be running all the same @ code, just slightly different drivers
< 1320790941 65641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, because of the context-switch stuff
< 1320790948 352863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what context-switch stuff?
< 1320790987 931043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?
< 1320791019 984978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the way that @ is meant to avoid context-switches by working NaCl-style rather than having arbitrary code connecting to the kernel's API
< 1320791047 790202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, yes, that's certainly an advantage; but consider that it's a clarity and structural advantage as well as a raw performance one
< 1320791055 118986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's something that would be a feasible + sensible @ usecase:
< 1320791066 93968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an old laptop lying around collecting dust which you connect to your router and put @ on
< 1320791075 394615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use this by running an @ simulator on your main unix computer
< 1320791079 378487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and connecting to it with @ networking over your LAN
< 1320791092 179256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NaCl being? (Apart from common salt)
< 1320791093 255308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seamlessly run intensive computations on the laptop that would be slow under the simulator, etc.
< 1320791099 397006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Google Native Client
< 1320791101 504200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320791108 821869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: performance doesn't really matter that much for what essentially amounts to a medium-thickness client
< 1320791116 171085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of running native executables from the web by statically verifying that they don't do anything nasty
< 1320791145 534150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, @ even in userspace will probably avoid some context switch penalties, simply because the @ scheduler will be task-switching without them.
< 1320791165 703505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, while @'s model certainly does lead to possible great performance improvements, it's hardly the only appeal of the system :)
< 1320791194 608948 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not merely possible. Inherent.
< 1320791209 541412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, yes; but it's easy to make an implementation that doesn't end up faster
< 1320791216 508181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the costs you pay elsewhere
< 1320791223 164656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you have a dumb compiler things go slowly
< 1320791239 384954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about performance in something like lapack+blas for whatever language @ uses. Not a lot of context switches there. But a lot of fine tuning the machine code for best performance
< 1320791258 422066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've never claimed @ is faster on all code
< 1320791271 515668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: personally, I find number crunching pretty boring
< 1320791272 131324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed. I'm just wondering how much worse it would be
< 1320791274 86181 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, performance is by no means the sole benefit of @. The big thing is that @ is at least intended to be understandable.
< 1320791278 784286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought @ was mainly intended to be a desktop OS
< 1320791284 643153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: desktop/server usecases are much more interesting than number crunching to me
< 1320791289 114352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320791289 471898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there it's IO, IO, IO
< 1320791292 405860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :number crunching is something you don't generally need much of an OS for at all
< 1320791297 597229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: precisely
< 1320791306 954206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, @ could just let privileged processes offload number crunching jobs to the gpu
< 1320791314 396430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they tend to be pretty suited to parallelism
< 1320791321 602178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, that doesn't always work
< 1320791322 434459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to be fair I do a fair amount of number crunching on the CPU and the GPU on my desktop
< 1320791327 364898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even the CPU.
< 1320791331 548515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, you can inject arbitrary machine code into @
< 1320791332 411237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're optimised for semi-parallelism
< 1320791337 96976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just requires very high privileges, and is usually dumb
< 1320791341 934212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like matrix multiplication, which isn't a completely parallel algo but comes close
< 1320791345 420529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and anything like a modern AAA 3D game is going to be doing a lot of GPU number crunching
< 1320791356 546781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do AA games exist?
< 1320791361 577565 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could probably also do NaCl-style sandboxed machine code.
< 1320791367 920764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: indeed
< 1320791369 158592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AAA is the only classification people tend to mention
< 1320791372 757020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320791375 914676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this, of course, would probably be significantly more complicated than the rest of @ put together. :P)
< 1320791386 64259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you want to be really pipe-dreamy: proof-carrying machine code
< 1320791400 508279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically...
< 1320791405 50827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never heard about anything than AAA there
< 1320791406 1553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean
< 1320791408 508114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: look at virtual machines
< 1320791416 100109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: batteries included
< 1320791419 717055 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Actually. Sandboxing for you would be really easy, because @'s not using the CPU's privilege levels at all.
< 1320791421 656383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay that was terrible)
< 1320791423 478416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the classification meaningful if it's the only one that's used?
< 1320791424 238650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VMWare, Parallels, VirtualBox -- they're edging closer and closer to being able to play modern games
< 1320791427 486764 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to sandbox machine code you could simply use that.
< 1320791429 618707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm
< 1320791439 771100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's only a matter of time before you don't lose much performance at all from virtualising them
< 1320791452 920612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if that's what it takes to do games under @, so what? it's secure, it's predictable...
< 1320791461 801427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they don't really cut it for the "getting 61 FPS without vsync native" case though.
< 1320791466 463725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not yet
< 1320791483 920330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is there anyone who plays without vsync except for testing what FPS you can reach?
< 1320791485 892023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The main loss from virtualising nowadays is actually getting stuff through to the GPU.
< 1320791513 303163 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Some people actually derp and think higher framerates than your display is a good thing.
< 1320791513 525419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i'll get ais523 to port @ to checkout :)
< 1320791514 625411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sadly lack an IOMMU on my mobo I think
< 1320791527 594933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh.
< 1320791528 441967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GPU works really differently from CPU
< 1320791540 235791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't straight-translate with any real measure of efficiency
< 1320791548 420884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: anyway I might play with vsync if I got 59 FPS without it. Because screen tearing is horrible. But so is 30 FPS
< 1320791551 630329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you claim Checkout is how CPUs work nowadays too
< 1320791558 124079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would be awful if @'s design mismatched those
< 1320791562 391371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, internally
< 1320791569 860756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, they don't take an input format that matches how they work internally
< 1320791576 55086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320791578 432801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather try to translate on the fly, and don't do an amazing job of it
< 1320791583 109100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: point is, @ doesn't match the exposed layer of CPUs
< 1320791585 402094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is Checkout in this context?
< 1320791591 381828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so i might as well make it match the hidden layer
< 1320791592 695193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: an esolang, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout
< 1320791595 384852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout
< 1320791598 199674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1320791607 838765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for Vorpal to say "tl;dr".
< 1320791611 166107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you'd have to abstraction-invert to actually run the code on a real CPU
< 1320791627 60450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as opposed to the abstraction-inversion I have to do already?
< 1320791631 899461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ wants to be run on a graph reduction machine
< 1320791644 74478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1320791655 338333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "machine code matches the way processors used to work decades ago, rather than the way they work nowadays" <-- for x86: certainly, but is this true for other ISAs?
< 1320791658 558286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, ARM and so on
< 1320791680 555030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, Itanium tried to do something lower-level
< 1320791683 710383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and look what happened to it
< 1320791697 517594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Thus, it makes operations like memory transfers (which take up the most time on a modern processor) explicit" <-- this reminds me of how the processing cores on Cell CPUs work.
< 1320791697 634691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might actually have been a good idea that happened too early
< 1320791708 562244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they DMA to a local memory
< 1320791712 187192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then access that
< 1320791716 608083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it was being explicit to the wrong thing
< 1320791719 17771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's how GPUs work too
< 1320791719 371409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the local memory being SRAM iirc
< 1320791726 377689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I wonder if Checkout isn't just a really weird representation of a dataflow graph
< 1320791738 611742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it is, in which case GPUs are too
< 1320791746 664646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, to be fair Cell is kind of like a weird mix between CPU and GPU concepts, with a PowerPC core thrown in for good measure
< 1320791747 425896 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... vliw wasn't exactly new with itanium, was it?
< 1320791752 312048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320791761 7337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't think so, but it was the first large-scale serious attempt to do it
< 1320791772 718470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would be very unsurprised if GPUs turned out to be basically dataflow machines
< 1320791784 733911 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can still have been too early regardless of how old vliw is
< 1320791799 960510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they /kind of/ are
< 1320791800 686413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not obviously exactly the same
< 1320791809 592469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I'm taking a course in GPU programming currently
< 1320791813 908040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems really interesting
< 1320791819 416156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :first lecture was today
< 1320791896 230421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "The differences are in the value of implementation-defined parameters" <-- any examples?
< 1320791905 913017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not off the top of my head
< 1320791909 88838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1320791918 28731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any Checkout implementations?
< 1320791919 950899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320791939 128378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a thought experiment more than anything else
< 1320791950 611634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what would a language look like if it modeled the way processors actually work"
< 1320791957 173830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is "frustrating", I think
< 1320791962 867864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a level 1 implementation shouldn't be too hard from what I can tell. Might not be efficient though
< 1320791976 296615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"level 1 implementation"?
< 1320792001 196816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the stuff needed for doing level 1. Which would form the core of an implementation
< 1320792003 835134 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromList [1,2,3,4] \\ fromList [1,2,3]
< 1320792004 827627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (Control.Monad.Random.Class.MonadRandom [])
< 1320792004 960139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from...
< 1320792005 79894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1320792018 769256 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1320792046 488158 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> S.fromList [1,2,3,4] \\ S.fromList [1,2,3]
< 1320792047 248454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
< 1320792047 491393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `Data.Set....
< 1320792050 4831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway from what I heard, coding for the Cell processor is really annoying as well
< 1320792061 591312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: behold, @:
< 1320792061 960640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello-world{s9dj3} :
< 1320792062 87027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1320792062 139639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Data.Rope{bnj55} : module-sig Data.Rope{bnj55}
< 1320792062 139722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Unicode{7zogf} : module-sig Unicode{7zogf}
< 1320792062 484572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    FRP{45gf6} : module-sig FRP{45gf6}
< 1320792064 454531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  } -> FRP{45gf6}.Behavior (Data.Rope{bnj55}.Rope Unicode{7zogf}.Codepoint)
< 1320792073 375951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is that?
< 1320792076 506760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@
< 1320792087 883267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an intermediate internal representation, right?
< 1320792089 609977 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320792091 891901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are the {h3b45h} thingies?
< 1320792092 242408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coding in that would be awkward
< 1320792097 288317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my guess is hashes
< 1320792100 255620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, a type signature
< 1320792108 309206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're partial hashes, I couldn't be arsed to tap out 512 bits or whatever
< 1320792121 222536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320792134 506671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people have to type out the hashes by hand, they'll get annoyed
< 1320792139 165918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never said they would
< 1320792142 723087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1320792143 827038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not running @ yet, am I?
< 1320792153 465680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suggesting that some method to sugar them away will be needed
< 1320792154 560293 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine the plain-text is the human-readable representation and the hash the computer-readable one.
< 1320792155 922748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sometimes you sound like it :P
< 1320792167 442683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE TOO MUCH ROPE TO HANG YOURSELF
< 1320792175 869100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait, the hashes are in the wrong place there
< 1320792183 242248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that was very un-ais523 like
< 1320792191 719582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wrote it originally
< 1320792201 937831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing
< 1320792207 330530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only duckduckgo hit is ESR's website
< 1320792217 952606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right, the intercal error
< 1320792218 826100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is interesting, I thought the phrase might occur by chance somewhere else
< 1320792224 197908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it an error for in intercal?
< 1320792231 640941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also when did you switch to ddg?
< 1320792234 427128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: running out of memory during multithreading
< 1320792241 324332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when elliott recommended it to me
< 1320792244 613434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320792258 142034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stopped recommending DDG after he recommended it to Vorpal and Vorpal started being obnoxious about recommending it.
< 1320792260 520329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, revised @!
< 1320792261 381581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello-world :
< 1320792261 433890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1320792261 434106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Data.Rope : module-sig Data.Rope{bnj55}
< 1320792261 434210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Unicode : module-sig Unicode{7zogf}
< 1320792261 858869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    FRP : module-sig FRP{45gf6}
< 1320792262 388580 :tiffnya!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-83.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320792263 818078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  } -> FRP.Behavior (Data.Rope.Rope Unicode.Codepoint)
< 1320792267 600599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: YOU RUINED MY PASTE.
< 1320792283 859195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because elliott is perfect in terms of opinions that I'd share, but because e made me aware of its existence
< 1320792284 113589 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1320792286 402743 :tiffnya!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-83.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :tiffany
< 1320792318 267284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.catb.org/~esr/intercal/ick.htm#Errors
< 1320792337 390402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, wait, that type is actually wrong
< 1320792339 486175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be dependent
< 1320792355 315961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott stopped recommending DDG after he recommended it to Vorpal and Vorpal started being obnoxious about recommending it. <-- I only recommended it to oerjan in here. No one else.
< 1320792363 593084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was enough :)
< 1320792371 324837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, perhaps this may end up getting merged with Anarchy somehow
< 1320792374 548430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on
< 1320792380 702660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is too specific to be the perfect language, but I love some of its ideas
< 1320792384 660677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anarchy is dependently-typed?
< 1320792386 499802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: admit it, I managed to sell the idea to oerjan
< 1320792391 538877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not exactly, well perhaps yes
< 1320792391 898137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hahaha
< 1320792394 102526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he still uses it
< 1320792401 521384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels vaguely similar to dependent typing
< 1320792408 60114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it's the same
< 1320792428 454789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Anarchy sounds interesting, but I think it'd also be simpler if structured as functional transformations rather than imperative updates
< 1320792433 359848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can you tell I like functional programming?)
< 1320792449 885243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, seeing as I don't really know Anarchy, this may be an ignorant statement
< 1320792450 123660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anarchy is a language? Nice name
< 1320792457 953274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is functional, and even almost pure; it's just sugared to look imperative
< 1320792473 155972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yet another slightly pregnant language
< 1320792481 793973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've written and tested a parser for it
< 1320792491 587750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddg is being unhelpful
< 1320792491 826071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (almost pure ~ slightly pregnant)
< 1320792491 878794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more progress than certain other languages
< 1320792497 719626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see
< 1320792499 573857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there we go
< 1320792500 281357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I see
< 1320792509 43167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320792510 964604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it isn't pure, but you can't do everything in it you could in an impure language
< 1320792513 609335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the wrong anarchy
< 1320792517 438202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320792521 616256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a restriction that's weaker than purity, but still ther
< 1320792523 82434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there
< 1320792526 553496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to figure out what it is
< 1320792534 982969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott: I can not find the anarchy you were talking about. Is it an esolang?
< 1320792538 998719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1320792541 184541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I've written and tested a parser for it
< 1320792542 15395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one I've only started making
< 1320792543 231595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320792548 248501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=anarchy&go=Go
< 1320792551 308140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly ais523 is just implementing some wildly well-known language
< 1320792553 283817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320792560 939430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so not on the wiki
< 1320792565 910106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is it about then?
< 1320792567 814370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 doesn't put incomplete languages on the wiki
< 1320792571 156602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intended semantics for a subset of the language are mostly worked out, and I'm trying to figure out how to implement them
< 1320792575 221956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: type inference on steroids
< 1320792581 561013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun
< 1320792584 773250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's mostly designed for tree-walking
< 1320792592 195150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320792597 809095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's specifically intended for being good at writing compilers
< 1320792598 593497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I think @ would be quite happy to host Anarchy
< 1320792609 671677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although it'll probably be TC, would be awkward to use for other things
< 1320792611 274870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an unkind host for languages, really, it just has very high standards
< 1320792612 572109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it might actually be an useful esolang?
< 1320792616 167192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully
< 1320792621 282314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may end up giving it a decent FFI
< 1320792625 204525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things it's not suited to writing in
< 1320792636 382752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even implement integers as a native data type
< 1320792645 219047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than asking the user to make them by hand, like usual
< 1320792654 207911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so... the lexer and parser are not really tree walking, the latter is tree building. I presume there is adequate support those too then?
< 1320792661 795242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I consider a language to be inferior if you /can't/ invent mathematics in it from scratch, but that doesn't mean you should have to)
< 1320792674 678404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it makes me really sad that integers are the one thing you absolutely need to be primitive
< 1320792677 160579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure how parsers fit into Anarchy yet
< 1320792685 374234 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\l -> map fst $ takeWhile (uncurry (==)) $ zip l (tail l)
< 1320792685 604989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 59):
< 1320792685 730276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input
< 1320792685 783525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator, "$", "$!", "`seq`" or ")"
< 1320792685 958385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for efficiency, you mean?
< 1320792690 407797 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\l -> map fst $ takeWhile (uncurry (==)) $ zip l (tail l))
< 1320792690 677578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map fst . takeWhile (uncurry (==)) . ap zip tail
< 1320792691 399549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to be usable at all, efficiency-wise
< 1320792701 725174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320792703 158031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well presumably you need it if you want to do any sort of useful compiler writing
< 1320792725 78833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, that @ type signature I showed is very non-idiomatic
< 1320792738 862997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: parsers are the least interesting part of a compiler
< 1320792742 672447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't surprise me
< 1320792745 68907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be done externally before running anarchy
< 1320792746 874289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *usually
< 1320792751 1005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok
< 1320792767 475471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (it's unidiomatic because it uses a rope of codepoints, which is a very strange type)
< 1320792771 700110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right, parser theory is well known
< 1320792780 409253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't feel like thinking of a document type to use
< 1320792784 392480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's a rope? something vaguely list-like in the operations it supports?
< 1320792792 875133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: certainly. But they still need to be there in some form. And if done externally you still need to communicate that stuff to the later stages somehow. Which either means a parser for the tree in anarchy or linking C code to it
< 1320792802 577144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a balanced tree of short vectors, basically
< 1320792807 656759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a very good string representation
< 1320792808 755983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why arbitrarily mention C?
< 1320792817 395503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, some other language then
< 1320792826 591384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking about bison
< 1320792826 937979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, so similar to a skiplist, but with a different way of thinking about it?
< 1320792836 914249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: completely unrelated; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_(computer_science)
< 1320792838 989178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is a rope of codepoints a strange type?
< 1320792846 192351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds sensible to me
< 1320792847 379923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in @, the obvious implementation is a 2,3 finger tree of short vectors
< 1320792856 129022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 2,3 finger trees are literally every data structure
< 1320792864 406622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting primitive
< 1320792871 352531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unix/windows mind virus
< 1320792872 88493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?
< 1320792878 193833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, not in @ itself
< 1320792893 508435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you suggest instead for representing an Unicode text?
< 1320792902 321446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just that 2,3 finger trees are unreasonably good at everything
< 1320792922 183706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "unicode text" is the problem; there is no real such thing, we're only used to bare strings of bytes and later codepoints because that's what our OSes use
< 1320792929 154159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rope of codepoints wouldn't be a bad representation for "text file found on the Internet, whose format isn't otherwise specified"
< 1320792932 416581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :books, for instance, aren't unicode text, they have formatting
< 1320792941 168850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume @ wouldn't be insular enough to refuse to interoperate with the wider Internet
< 1320792946 262108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's because the Internet is based around byte strings
< 1320792946 613517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means understanding its formats, even if it dislikes them
< 1320792949 892857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed
< 1320792954 796010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and most people use Windows/Unix which layers codepoint-arrays on top of them
< 1320792957 968333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well how will you represent "The dog jumped over the lazy dog" then?
< 1320792965 201279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every justification for strings is just proof that someone else has used strings previously :)
< 1320792973 128859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as a document, say
< 1320792975 372899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  elliott: well how will you represent "The dog jumped over the lazy dog" then?
< 1320792977 974807 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :714)  elliott: well how will you represent "The dog jumped over the lazy dog" then?
< 1320792984 934183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL Vorpal doesn't know about quick brown foxes
< 1320792987 406856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes I know it was non-idiomatic :P
< 1320792994 372864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was intentional :P
< 1320792998 870190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it has to be present tense, "jumps" not "jumped"
< 1320793003 485764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dog jumps
< 1320793011 82033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and how do you represent a document then?
< 1320793012 596692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the quick brown fox jumps
< 1320793016 103625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: internally I mean
< 1320793017 145736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the lazy dog
< 1320793033 192119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: depends; it could quite easily be a PDF
< 1320793036 909150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, this conversation is rapidly getting too surreal for me
< 1320793048 312871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a tree of formatting instructions seems reasonable
< 1320793059 503024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm. For source code?
< 1320793067 228171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with a defined list?
< 1320793069 699021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: code isn't text
< 1320793072 54271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: source code should be stored as an AST
< 1320793077 341037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you'd want it to basically be compiled source code
< 1320793079 378738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320793081 457291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is what that outputs
< 1320793085 403800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is also an AST too
< 1320793088 902248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what documents look like, but it's easy to experiment once @ is running
< 1320793128 937493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the main problem with a totally generic document type is that it needs to be searchable
< 1320793131 166455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I have the CS infection that makes me think that anything that doesn't have higher-order functions isn't a real programming language
< 1320793134 837751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't just be a program that renders something on the screen
< 1320793141 488682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right
< 1320793179 908767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE NEXT STACK RUPTURES. ALL DIE. OH, THE EMBARRASSMENT!
< 1320793188 233996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about comments?
< 1320793191 841861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only message that ESR /changed/ from the original, rather than adding a new message
< 1320793205 241430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was the original?
< 1320793205 493453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the old one too, though ("PROGRAM ATTEMPTED TO EXIT WITHOUT ERROR MESSAGE")
< 1320793213 757365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320793216 205782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: comments should be documents too, but why can't they just be arbitrary objects?
< 1320793224 269297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason you shouldn't be able to add an audio file as a comment
< 1320793225 205855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm I guess so
< 1320793230 654683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more reasonably, a picture
< 1320793238 831411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if you could just have a document composed only of a picture, it's unnecessary indirection)
< 1320793270 269695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lets say I'm editing a function, how will you represent this on screen? As a piece of text?
< 1320793300 125995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have you ever read a paper which had Haskell code in it?
< 1320793304 754940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably look something like that
< 1320793330 703200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I read one that had Miranda code
< 1320793340 719744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably not
< 1320793344 978860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go read some mcbride or something :P
< 1320793348 614270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what about literate programs?
< 1320793349 806362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: got a link?
< 1320793360 16042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out if the programs should be "outside" or "inside" comments
< 1320793371 278244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if there should be some other method for doing so
< 1320793377 802051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ddg is rather unhelpful here
< 1320793391 419886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there's taht functional pearl i read a while back
< 1320793393 337754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mcbride is obviously a name. Probably knowing the first name would help
< 1320793402 222908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a joke :P
< 1320793404 696915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here, http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=indexed%20monad%20functional%20pearl&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDUQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpersonal.cis.strath.ac.uk%2F~conor%2FKleisli.pdf&ei=B7W5TovkAsmM-wbhz7WFCA&usg=AFQjCNG5aO2kQrYOjP71SltPo1vW7kQrMQ&sig2=tjbXn6dw84MjElfdiKoySw
< 1320793406 897077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1320793410 622195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~conor/Kleisli.pdf
< 1320793421 653619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think "FLAG ETIQUETTE FAILURE BAD SCOUT NO BISCUIT" is the newest error message there, it's one of ESR's
< 1320793439 489009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's rubbish
< 1320793451 476498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's not /that/ bad
< 1320793474 356252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NO SKELETON IN MY CLOSET, WOE IS ME!" would be great if it was just the bit before the comma
< 1320793480 440014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can see plenty of haskell source code in there
< 1320793487 475608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicely formatted
< 1320793488 998306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's the point
< 1320793508 452663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing special about it. I mean, it is kind of how it would show in your typical editor, modulo italics and colours
< 1320793511 534694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: things like syntax highlighting shouldn't be part of the program object, though
< 1320793513 316576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and operators
< 1320793522 75653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point
< 1320793530 322977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, re literate programs: I'm undecided. I think @ can support both just fine. I don't know which the system itself should prefer.
< 1320793531 281395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't even notice that to begin with
< 1320793534 334589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the problem with Unicode is that it's inherently linear
< 1320793552 288364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode isn't that good, but @ uses it as a source of actual characters because it's good enough
< 1320793561 959657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would it be possible to make that compile by defining the relevant unicode symbols as operators?
< 1320793564 11402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because being incompatible with it in 2011 would be completely unjustifiable
< 1320793569 137304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320793570 403145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who says those are valid unicode?
< 1320793575 812175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's no unicode for "star in a diamond", last i checked
< 1320793576 781844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps you should finish Kitten first
< 1320793583 241490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give you a usable OS to develop @ on
< 1320793584 816107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what (<*>) is usually rendered as
< 1320793598 687189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hrrm
< 1320793599 655314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Kitten is easy enough to develop at this stage that I can entertain @ thoughts
< 1320793605 506948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320793610 274718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong in thinking
< 1320793617 992230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need to push through this design skeleton of protoproto@ to something that can run the simplest system that's sort of like @
< 1320793627 880883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that'll be a big win in terms of being able to experiment beyond that
< 1320793668 284707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unicode isn't that good, but @ uses it as a source of actual characters because it's good enough <-- yeah, they didn't add Klingon did they?
< 1320793675 954807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they didn't
< 1320793681 804644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, it isn't good at all
< 1320793689 745907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a common embedding of Klingon into Unicode that isn't standard, but doesn't contradict the standard
< 1320793694 527541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by defining some of the private use area
< 1320793697 464514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320793708 161174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :approx how large is the private use area, I don't remember
< 1320793717 682357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considerably larger than Klingon is
< 1320793719 101221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello-world :
< 1320793719 216577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  M : {
< 1320793719 269152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Data : { Rope : module-sig Data.Rope{bnj55} }
< 1320793719 269347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Unicode : module-sig Unicode{7zogf}
< 1320793719 269454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    FRP : module-sig FRP{45gf6}
< 1320793719 848086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  } -> M.FRP.Behavior (M.Data.Rope.Rope M.Unicode.Codepoint)
< 1320793721 490335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1320793723 793859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough
< 1320793724 374500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather small compared to Unicode as a whole
< 1320793749 500648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to try and give some example /code/ for hello-world
< 1320793843 512629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I said Behavior
< 1320793851 239987 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320793859 619765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make sure I don't typo my names again, pls :)
< 1320793879 989356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320793893 647660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the names be written as sequence-of-letters anyway
< 1320793899 805662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1320793905 207845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, why shouldn't Color and Colour be identical?
< 1320793933 958753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1320793934 12118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use Data.Rope as Rope importing Rope
< 1320793934 12355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use Unicode importing Codepoint
< 1320793934 12494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use FRP importing Behaviour
< 1320793934 12615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1320793935 11123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  hello-world : Behaviour (Rope Codepoint)
< 1320793936 954156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  hello-world = point Rope['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', ',', ' ', 'w', 'o', 'r', 'l',
< 1320793938 863518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                           'd', '!']
< 1320793940 897149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1320793947 374029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Rope[...] is misleading; it is actually a Rope object embedded into the code
< 1320793955 701330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs to build up constants from functions when you can just include them in the source?
< 1320794045 274050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oops!
< 1320794049 239793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you spot the error in the above program?
< 1320794054 116181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ could!)
< 1320794096 428538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't define lists?
< 1320794099 698376 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence
< 1320794099 933251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence []     = return []
< 1320794100 52169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs)
< 1320794100 105054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR: sequence = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return [])
< 1320794109 123558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, that's the embedded object
< 1320794110 530054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't use lists
< 1320794120 671860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hint: where is "point" imported from?
< 1320794126 662318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320794129 691615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the "point"
< 1320794138 66426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ropes aren't behaviours of ropes
< 1320794152 146309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's required is
< 1320794152 510386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use Control.Applicative importing point
< 1320794153 953741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar
< 1320794178 120106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ostensibly one can ask an @ computer, given the above, "hello-world", and get back a container with that rope inside, never changing
< 1320794195 246306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more interesting program would be one that cycles through different ropes or even responds to input
< 1320794196 168449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that list sounds quite annoying to write out like that
< 1320794201 442114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are no lists
< 1320794206 8517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well....
< 1320794225 992064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', ',', ' ', 'w', 'o', 'r', 'l', 'd', '!'] <-- writing that seems really annoying
< 1320794227 592566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point me to the list
< 1320794233 917362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : that Rope[...] is misleading; it is actually a Rope object embedded into the code
< 1320794235 524133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no list
< 1320794236 888872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it whatever you like
< 1320794241 7652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: certainly
< 1320794256 243594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you missed the part where I said you wouldn't actually use ropes of codepoints in rpactice, right? :)
< 1320794263 197171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whatever it is, it seems annoying to use if you just want to display a message to the user
< 1320794274 143343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what would you do in practise for the hello world
< 1320794280 858242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the idiomatic hello world look like
< 1320794281 828905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a document type
< 1320794289 401030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know, it's impossible to determine @'s idioms before it exists
< 1320794293 138453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320794321 374352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what would you do to display "Error connecting to host", would you display a document with that "text" in it?
< 1320794334 462595 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1320794336 148875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1320794339 62145 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', ',', ' ', 'w', 'o', 'r', 'l', 'd', '!'] == "Hello, world!"
< 1320794339 802431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1320794340 154228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1320794343 947820 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you have to write it out as a list?
< 1320794351 259651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: that was NOT haskell code
< 1320794356 689486 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1320794358 419756 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense.
< 1320794361 619033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where would actual ropes be used then?
< 1320794363 473553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1320794363 526151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use Text.Doc importing Doc
< 1320794363 526310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use FRP importing Behaviour
< 1320794363 526414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use Control.Applicative importing point
< 1320794363 526517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1320794363 824084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  hello-world : Behaviour Doc
< 1320794365 822591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  hello-world = point "Hello, world!"
< 1320794367 634239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1320794369 866368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: smile
< 1320794371 853161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and probably internally
< 1320794379 415436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :representing runs of unformatted text as ropes of codepoints, etc.
< 1320794386 82015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "smile" here being?
< 1320794396 47896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because i converted it to use an imaginary Doc type
< 1320794400 551494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320794403 959514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "world!" is actually italic there, you just can't see it :)
< 1320794409 100829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1320794430 773444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that might make it a bit tricky to pastebin code to discuss it over irc :P
< 1320794440 487662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it can't easily be represented as pure text I mean
< 1320794440 724534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's why @ has a standardised object interchange format
< 1320794444 321610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320794445 792639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, there'll be @bins
< 1320794454 351450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for linking to people over legacy protocols
< 1320794481 688369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in a @ communications protocol, you would of course exchange objects
< 1320794487 385018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just embed source code in your message
< 1320794489 535285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess we will see if @ becomes the next Linux.
< 1320794494 102625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it though
< 1320794504 207882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next shitty imitations of a decades-old obsolete system?
< 1320794510 798287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not in that sense :P
< 1320794517 216068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant "the next big open source OS"
< 1320794528 69463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, but I've never really cared much about that
< 1320794536 926121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to think it'll get at least ten users
< 1320794547 323235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably nobody but me will actually boot it as their main OS
< 1320794559 545253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe that is more ambitious than Linus original goal :P
< 1320794589 45148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to think @ would take off, but actually it'd probably be pretty hellish.
< 1320794601 984110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People would start shipping proprietary @ source.
< 1320794602 710267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would certainly try it out under qemu if it is ever implemented
< 1320794610 945098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that even work?
< 1320794614 619642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not long until programs become ObfuscatedPropriertyInterpreter("...binary data...").
< 1320794626 141964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Proprierty/Proprietary/
< 1320794640 155424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess that will happen for the graphics drivers.
< 1320794645 56318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least
< 1320794651 937604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "will" -- @ won't get to that stage.
< 1320794658 809089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it would
< 1320794659 872522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1320794666 419313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When @ is small, I can just yell at people if they do things like that *shrug*
< 1320794719 932898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I would certainly try it out under qemu if it is ever implemented
< 1320794720 49807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : would that even work?
< 1320794723 55372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Were these statements linked?
< 1320794732 566098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let me look up
< 1320794740 299095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1320794746 715367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : People would start shipping proprietary @ source.  would that even work?
< 1320794750 19514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320794750 134756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: was the linkage
< 1320794766 975651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, I wouldn't bother running @ in qemu, since like I've said it'll be hostable on Unix.
< 1320794771 284871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't imagine it NOT working under qemu
< 1320794779 400683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320794789 91588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reminds me of inferno in that regard
< 1320794799 47867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I never got inferno to actually work
< 1320794808 862575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would recommend people try actually booting it if it works out -- it'll be very interesting to see how much the scheduler/IO stuff actually helps.
< 1320794828 706266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I would probably disconnect all my hdds first :P
< 1320794831 958671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a chore
< 1320794848 665745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, like I said, my baseline is <3000 lines of Python + a small bit of @ driver code to connect to the Python "hardware" + the standard @ image = hosted @ system with graphics, keyboard and mouse (no other special IO).
< 1320794860 18403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't implement that, then the abstract machine is too complex.
< 1320794869 943125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it'll take more lines to be efficient and do things like networking.
< 1320794878 470412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that I need to remove one disk compartment to properly read the SATA connectors, because the direct path is blocked by the GPU heatsink
< 1320794886 2654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reach*
< 1320794906 435501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fair enougj
< 1320794908 16069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't worry about @ clobbering your HDs, unless you think I'm malicious or whatever. It's kind of meant to eliminate a very large portion of those sorts of errors :P
< 1320794908 731375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough*
< 1320794929 944776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do I trust you completely to not make any mistakes still? Nope.
< 1320794941 53131 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's pretty damned hard to do HD-hosing mistakes.
< 1320794945 385841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, tell me how anarchy and scapegoat fit together
< 1320794948 169420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you trust Linux not to?
< 1320794949 816211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I appeal to authority here. The authority of Murphy
< 1320794951 810535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you trust Windows not to?
< 1320794954 902496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're insane!
< 1320794966 892194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't think of an obvious link
< 1320794983 997307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of language-specific scapegoat change types
< 1320795009 253624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope! Guess why I disconnected linux when installing windows. Anyway they had a fair amount of testing. Such issues would according to probability likely have been caught.
< 1320795043 488477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the only thing I would trust more than that would be an actual formal proof :P
< 1320795044 391042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you even clobber an HD by accident in OS code, anyway?
< 1320795062 506958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to send a very specific, very long sequence of instructions to th drive
< 1320795063 595749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drive
< 1320795083 732256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay more reasonably and scarier you might manage to brick my network card. I remember an OS bug in some pre-release of some 2.6 linux kernel doing that
< 1320795090 737159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a similar network card to mine
< 1320795105 798397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's ridiculous, you think I'll write drivers for your network card?
< 1320795111 625312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by writing in the wrong place, because debug hooks were written into device registers by mistake
< 1320795127 174145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see, no need to do that ^
< 1320795155 113438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway what network card do you have? If it is intel's gbit ethernet: then yes
< 1320795161 233733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, if you really think you can trust linux more than @ I'll ujst have to conclude you're insane
< 1320795166 572926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially considering the order of magnitude difference in code size
< 1320795189 434025 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, there's actually a decent chance you could. There's like one or two network cards that are extraordinarily common in both physical hardware *and* VMs, and are easy to implement drivers for.
< 1320795195 679721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't recall which)
< 1320795199 544958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed you do have a point. Guess why I would never ever boot anything that isn't at least 3.x.1
< 1320795230 831825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, so you just recently switched to Linux?
< 1320795242 980140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well obviously 2.6.x.1 before
< 1320795260 409307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and I forgot what the 2.4 versioning system was, and I probably didn't know better back then anyway
< 1320795262 632646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first @ release will be 3.1.1
< 1320795269 220628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1320795274 920739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320795276 119956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with special Vorpal hd clobbering code
< 1320795277 175854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I believe intel's gbit ethernet is fairly common indeed.
< 1320795277 405028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320795292 971800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: more so in VMs
< 1320795312 80562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You should help me figure out what @'s networking looks like. :(
< 1320795318 888245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the PCI Express one though
< 1320795320 554120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the major constraint that it has to be layerable on top of either TCP/IP or UDP/IP.
< 1320795324 265987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirmed: it takes me about 10 seconds to remember the rules of The Game when I'm reminded of it
< 1320795325 937295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc is slightly less common in VMs
< 1320795332 298351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my brain has evolved a defensive response to it
< 1320795334 825141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320795346 845325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more like 30 seconds
< 1320795350 994982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered there was another one
< 1320795351 364736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing
< 1320795368 761145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm so glad I play Not the Game
< 1320795378 615670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, and just now I remembered the "if you think of The Game you lose rule"
< 1320795384 835487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320795389 119324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's kind of annoying that @ doesn't seem to be separable from dependent types
< 1320795390 870011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only three, right?
< 1320795397 163239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one hand, it's obviously the correct thing
< 1320795400 863250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other, it makes my job a /lot/ harder
< 1320795403 130182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't play The Game
< 1320795407 139381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I know a bunch of people who do
< 1320795414 513896 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wouldn't actually consider that a major constraint.
< 1320795431 486835 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being layerable on top of UDP/IP just means it needs to be in packet form, really.
< 1320795450 638889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It also means it has to be source-dependent...
< 1320795452 629701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assume there is a way to embed native code for use in drivers?
< 1320795459 605880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And target-dependent, for that matter.
< 1320795469 678129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not necessarily.
< 1320795475 655866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and how are you going to deal with ACPI?
< 1320795478 880934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds "fun"
< 1320795483 346607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a single port for all of @ networking to be multiplexed over.
< 1320795484 707122 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1320795491 983163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i'm talking about IPs, not porst
< 1320795493 833356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ports
< 1320795504 332587 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*.
< 1320795506 66808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (a) Sort of, but you almost never want to use it. (b) What do you mean?
< 1320795511 526273 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a bit of a restriction.
< 1320795526 102097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: If I could, I'd layer it on top of Urbit's networking. :p
< 1320795527 764063 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the alternative is NIHing the thing least NIHable.
< 1320795533 375204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely you know that you need to interpret a lot of bytecode in your OS to do ACPI?
< 1320795546 334271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I wish routers let you give them new routing algorithms remotely.
< 1320795551 319869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an open source implementation of this already. It is in C though
< 1320795551 554224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could just define new protocols with router viruses.
< 1320795562 85740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know almost nothing about ACPI other than that it's crappy
< 1320795562 828389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are probably a few more
< 1320795566 963403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Give me one good reason not to just ignore it :)
< 1320795570 69416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it matters for laptops and shit
< 1320795576 284788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think you can avoid it on modern hardware in general
< 1320795580 596410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, interpreting things is one thing functional languages are really good at!
< 1320795594 465807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a state machine even? I'm not sure
< 1320795630 300570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, yeah, I can't really think of all that many uses for embedding native code.
< 1320795642 177321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seen on Slashdot: apparently a microphone error let a bunch of reporters hear the translated version of a private conversation between Obama and Sarkozy
< 1320795671 526185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you might need to poke some addresses and such from the ACPI byte code. And then I guess some core parts of the OS will need it.
< 1320795675 253301 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that most of what drivers actually need is access to inb/outb analogues and RAM access.
< 1320795684 223865 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And* that can generally be abstracted over.
< 1320795691 221566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty high-profile for a microphone error
< 1320795705 191753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320795711 716906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't really need machine code access for that. More like limited peek/poke.
< 1320795714 94587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Poking address =/= embedding arbitrary machine code.
< 1320795714 568415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm still recoiling from the YouTube commenter who asked how you edited the uploader comments (on someone else's video)
< 1320795715 858625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did they say anything interesting?
< 1320795720 355153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm indeed
< 1320795723 400389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, what pikhq_ said; sections of RAM + ports.
< 1320795731 205597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, they insulted the prime minister of Israel
< 1320795736 543593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool
< 1320795738 189156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least Sarkozy did; Obama's response was ambiguous
< 1320795774 277003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the reports
< 1320795778 771559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the translators made the whole thing up
< 1320795786 276556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I imagine they'd be in a bunch of trouble if they did
< 1320795792 582505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I can't stand him any more,' said Mr. Sarkozy of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. 'He's a liar.' Mr. Obama replied: 'You're sick of him. I have to deal with him every day!'
< 1320795794 567511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very ambiguous :)
< 1320795847 437062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the driver for a virtual machine would need to run a few instructions, at least if it was to use hardware virtualisation
< 1320795852 905924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that is an interesting issue I guess
< 1320795871 206573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do graphics drivers for VMs work, anyway
< 1320795893 438903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Obama's response is two neutral statements; there's an implication but it isn't stated
< 1320795914 681152 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides ports and RAM, you'll need some kind of irq routing somewhere
< 1320795928 276087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've played a bunch too much nomic, and watched a bunch too much politics, to necessarily infer anything at all into a statement
< 1320795933 836130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :made by a politician
< 1320795950 820448 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Israel will, of course, go apeshit.
< 1320795953 909438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing memory-mapped, but not sure
< 1320795962 393313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: probably
< 1320795963 401430 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And near as I can tell Israel has more control over US politics than US citizens do.
< 1320795971 831903 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Fuck if I know.
< 1320796191 42573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320796242 963505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't get what you mean
< 1320796352 913539 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320796433 243046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably figure out what my FRP model actually looks like.
< 1320796439 264955 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that some magic is required to either figure out which irq each devices uses, or to decide which irqs they should use and store it wherever that goes
< 1320796460 568258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's not related to what enhanced access driver code needs, though
< 1320796464 887054 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides io ports and memory access to devices, drivers hook into that
< 1320796476 604891 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was just talking about hardware and drivers in general
< 1320796491 496063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320796506 187918 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever enhanced access driver code is :)
< 1320796526 403702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: whatever (enhanced access) driver code needs
< 1320796537 898527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :over "typical" programs
< 1320796541 326815 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1320796544 341127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no such thing as a program, but anyway!)
< 1320796585 565327 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should figure out how the whole irq business works some day
< 1320796589 776410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come to think of it, @ should be available hosted on @, too
< 1320796594 542743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't a program just a subroutine (in the general sense) that the user might want to invoke manually?
< 1320796602 608368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right; it'd save the need to use a VM
< 1320796612 917251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something that you might feel the need to use a VM for
< 1320796617 567192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bit pointless though: it'd literally look like a function call
< 1320796620 807716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320796626 798938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ already has object-capability, so you don't need VMs at all
< 1320796636 529586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might work as a method of mitigating against unknown security bugs
< 1320796650 907047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just testing an @ interpreter meant to run on other platforms
< 1320796651 63421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it'd /literally/ just look like a function call
< 1320796657 518621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh?
< 1320796663 971548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wouldn't /be/ a function call
< 1320796666 342283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just /look/ like one
< 1320796673 858125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it would /be/ a function call
< 1320796677 974595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1320796678 210128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : or just testing an @ interpreter meant to run on other platforms
< 1320796679 303054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense
< 1320796682 10863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a cheat-interp
< 1320796684 478899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need an emulator for that platform
< 1320796685 208461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not @
< 1320796686 834486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it isn't
< 1320796690 670504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's how you port @ to a platform:
< 1320796701 36271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: write something that passes control to it, giving it the hardware drivers it needs
< 1320796730 677508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, you could write an @ machine yourself in @lang, but why? the host already has a much faster one
< 1320796736 351266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't you need to put something there capable of executing the code @ is made of?
< 1320796737 562473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no security issues or anything in using it
< 1320796747 105182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's part of passing control
< 1320796755 897292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for testing your @ machine in @lang, that you eventually intend to, say, compile into C for the purpose of running on a different OS?
< 1320796777 384513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, implying you can compile @lang to C
< 1320796789 995164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can compile Haskell to C
< 1320796800 876070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operation might not be a generally useful one, but I can't see why it wouldn't be /possible/
< 1320796802 322656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is defined in terms of existing OSes
< 1320796811 930330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling @lang to C doesn't work because @lang /is @/
< 1320796826 337234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most you can do is bundle it with an interpreter (= a @ simulator)
< 1320796826 810685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not quite
< 1320796838 977128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you're making a mistake I made in Feather
< 1320796842 929170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a very easy mistake to describe
< 1320796869 3613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, give it a try
< 1320797025 424103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm… a language typically has pure-computation parts, and an API
< 1320797027 128997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, if you can take the @ part out of @lang, then @lang is broken
< 1320797031 739816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the outside world
< 1320797052 508190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you metacircular both of them, then you don't have an interp at all, just a cheat-interp
< 1320797067 737572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you can't do the API without implementing it in terms of itself, for a self-interp
< 1320797076 93314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, you have to implement @lang in something
< 1320797082 485592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll agree with that
< 1320797091 912197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts of that will be pure computation, and can be lifted back to the original language, in a sense
< 1320797093 127638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what has this got to do with compiling @lang to C?
< 1320797098 545943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing the parts of it that aren't computation with API calls
< 1320797130 846827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, it's pretty hard to explain
< 1320797131 82643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those API calls are @
< 1320797135 247151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK
< 1320797139 907674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't make a language out of /just/ API calls
< 1320797150 873812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably (/me remembers the MOV-based OISC)
< 1320797153 220382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, but you can't do anything with /just/ computation
< 1320797157 511390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320797162 183375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both parts are needed
< 1320797165 781649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't write an @ simulator in @lang and compile it to another OS
< 1320797166 881505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of the parts, it's meaningful to compile it
< 1320797169 908969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need the bit that's @
< 1320797190 581667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about an @ simulator; but rather, an @lang impl in @lang that calls into the surrounding @ just for API calls
< 1320797210 357597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't implement @lang to simulate @; @lang's at a higher level
< 1320797223 847881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, OK, but I'm not sure what the use of that would be
< 1320797226 971733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can attempt to restrict those API calls to the smallest subset you can, which is what you'd do to implement @ onto a new system
< 1320797234 428083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not be useful, I'm just saying it's not meaningless
< 1320797234 480607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remind me, why did you go for @ as the name?
< 1320797240 892480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: @ isn't the name
< 1320797244 616300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you wouldn't, you'd just implement the @ machine in a handful of pages of whatever code
< 1320797247 597093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1320797249 432952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember
< 1320797250 966130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a metasyntactic variable standing for what the name will eventually be
< 1320797263 128429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, maybe it's possible, but such a compiler would necessarily have to be very ugly
< 1320797268 775391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably only work on very carefully-written programs
< 1320797272 493378 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest the name involve "hubris" in some way.
< 1320797274 26761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier just to write the C directly for such a simple program
< 1320797298 491151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1320797322 128705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it /isn't/, then @'s abstract machine needs replacing
< 1320797341 532955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320797345 278640 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine @lang without @ would be a bit like Haskell without IO: does computation, and can't do anything at all with it.
< 1320797355 858628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes, that's about right
< 1320797361 148014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: worse
< 1320797365 273230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no data structures
< 1320797382 615047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how are the data structures bootstrapped?
< 1320797382 862303 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, so Haskell without Prelude then.
< 1320797384 449595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd basically be reduced to reimplementing everything you want to use from scratch
< 1320797402 630281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reimplementing the data structures from scratch is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect the @ simulator in @ to do
< 1320797407 779298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usefully compilable
< 1320797410 424775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't
< 1320797415 820452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are no data structures to implement
< 1320797425 633393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they have to come from somewhere!
< 1320797426 939676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you understand how simple the abstract machine is meant to be
< 1320797448 104008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, I think; I'm disagreeing with you where the boundaries between the abstract machine and the rest of the world are
< 1320797456 499691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I think there's something in between that you're repeatedly claiming doesn't exist
< 1320797487 35085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just don't understand how @ is structured
< 1320797516 825729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1320797596 626065 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320797651 937511 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-83.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320797689 279682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, code in @ is basically completely unportable, by design
< 1320797742 459440 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sense of "portable" do you mean?
< 1320797747 691776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between OSes, or between CPUs?
< 1320797764 894683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OSes
< 1320797791 658386 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yeah, a port of @ code would either be a complete rewrite or contain an implementation of the relevant portions of @.
< 1320797984 780093 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320798011 543428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320798589 506868 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any link for @lang? I don't find it in the Esolang language list.
< 1320798595 994220 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean @! ?
< 1320798649 929545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear :)
< 1320798665 222839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang is not technically esoteric, it's just more esoteric than almost all languages on the wiki
< 1320798665 348899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798671 925759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lambdabot =
< 1320798685 129497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang
< 1320798685 363269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798689 28803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1320798689 164065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798691 998287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@whatever
< 1320798692 115978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1320798694 153584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320798697 349868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would @lang do that
< 1320798700 651891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any idea?
< 1320798705 849262 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ling
< 1320798705 965605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@abcd
< 1320798706 17971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798706 293711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid argument ''
< 1320798706 633927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1320798706 945409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798711 668413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :any 4 letter word?
< 1320798712 157824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot does error-correction
< 1320798712 864522 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bong
< 1320798713 100304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: bug ping
< 1320798718 378943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320798723 783940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320798729 423053 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bing
< 1320798729 541050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798738 107890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see how lang → ping is reasonable though
< 1320798754 758173 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably ping is the unique closest match.
< 1320798756 430321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno :)
< 1320798759 811176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so hm
< 1320798762 6037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@abcd
< 1320798762 241156 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid argument ''
< 1320798769 590971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess there was none close enough
< 1320798773 19727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ngng
< 1320798773 133583 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798774 541432 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@long
< 1320798774 809710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798777 434032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@nnng
< 1320798777 667021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798780 847837 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pang
< 1320798781 82785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798781 551197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@gggg
< 1320798781 823809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1320798788 579638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@nnnn
< 1320798788 695739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1320798790 238821 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mmpf
< 1320798790 471612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: map unpf
< 1320798793 855615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@png
< 1320798794 86704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320798797 46896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320798804 187167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be quite lenient
< 1320798813 996618 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pimf
< 1320798814 113296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: ping time
< 1320798821 188340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list
< 1320798821 422311 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
< 1320798829 789299 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lost
< 1320798829 891121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
< 1320798845 313362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
< 1320798845 431725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"#$%&'()*+,\""
< 1320798849 90501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320798872 988128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :€protontorpedo
< 1320798876 453552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo
< 1320798876 726169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does haskell compare to j2ee?
< 1320798879 963183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo
< 1320798880 210289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it fun to program in haskell?
< 1320798881 562619 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@spell lang
< 1320798882 736847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1320798895 377726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@v
< 1320798895 635460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\""
< 1320798897 254235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@v
< 1320798897 501554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\"
< 1320798901 83820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
< 1320798901 216590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
< 1320798903 510983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320798947 900608 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@gsite
< 1320798948 27409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty search.
< 1320798963 220251 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, lets see how close this is:
< 1320798966 442717 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@goatse
< 1320798966 680351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1320798971 435410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle+ (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1320798971 566258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Monoid appEndo :: Endo a -> a -> a
< 1320798971 727750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString append :: ByteString -> ByteString -> ByteString
< 1320798971 780196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 append :: ByteString -> ByteString -> ByteString
< 1320798973 723569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1320798974 194082 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1320798974 319697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1320798974 372223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies parMap :: Strategy b -> (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1320798976 844032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1320798978 390243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320798993 6268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see they return different results, but what is the pattern here
< 1320799002 547002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help hoogle
< 1320799002 856621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoogle . Haskell API Search for either names, or types.
< 1320799003 469725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help hoogle+
< 1320799003 728847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoogle . Haskell API Search for either names, or types.
< 1320799006 624997 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoogle+ knows more libraries?
< 1320799017 784496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hoogle+ didn't know Prelude
< 1320799019 77084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like @hoogle+ doesn't return stuff @hoogle does
< 1320799021 825461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just "more results"
< 1320799022 913070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320799025 462078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle+ a -> a
< 1320799025 588495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative liftA :: Applicative f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320799025 745222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable fmapDefault :: Traversable t => (a -> b) -> t a -> t b
< 1320799025 797543 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320799028 863374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> a
< 1320799029 209184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a
< 1320799029 325514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a
< 1320799029 378089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts breakpoint :: a -> a
< 1320799032 198116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320799032 784186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (<*>)
< 1320799033 20363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1320799036 927437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrugs*
< 1320799043 785466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle+ (<*>)
< 1320799049 238235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1320799064 643962 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot seems to be right with "more results"
< 1320799066 854381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice
< 1320799066 995061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input: expecting number
< 1320799072 242666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 10
< 1320799072 377177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 => 10
< 1320799074 234421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 10
< 1320799074 368685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 => 10
< 1320799076 944454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320799078 490298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320799081 923885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 3
< 1320799082 176770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 => 3
< 1320799084 314468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 3 4
< 1320799084 452575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 4 => 34
< 1320799088 764737 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice D3+4
< 1320799089 3313 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "D": expecting number
< 1320799102 485022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is dice as in d20
< 1320799117 899981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 2d20
< 1320799118 57783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d20 => 33
< 1320799122 335304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1320799123 210230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 2d20
< 1320799123 328932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d20 => 12
< 1320799128 605833 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d3+4
< 1320799128 749629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3+4 => 6
< 1320799130 419048 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d3+4
< 1320799130 534476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3+4 => 7
< 1320799131 47091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it is
< 1320799131 277370 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d3+4
< 1320799131 510580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3+4 => 5
< 1320799141 46323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice d6
< 1320799141 165114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "d": expecting number
< 1320799142 866674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6
< 1320799143 440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d6 => 1
< 1320799144 295016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6
< 1320799144 528241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d6 => 6
< 1320799145 345761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6
< 1320799145 615799 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d6 => 5
< 1320799149 113148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes seems so
< 1320799149 166914 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may not leave off the 1
< 1320799153 987140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I noticed
< 1320799158 60745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6 * 2
< 1320799158 176987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "*": expecting digit, "+" or end
< 1320799160 429297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6 * 1d9
< 1320799160 544045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "*": expecting digit, "+" or end
< 1320799161 487265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah.
< 1320799175 468181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't remember seeing that in GURPS
< 1320799183 190570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was ages ago I played that
< 1320799185 467655 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any RPG multiplying dice...
< 1320799194 674886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and D&D I only played through NWN1, and it hides most of that
< 1320799210 801273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: See, that's an opportunity for innovation!
< 1320799225 516420 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1320799232 789067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 2d20-90
< 1320799233 23336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-": expecting digit, "+" or end
< 1320799235 731293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 2d20+90
< 1320799235 999060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d20+90 => 121
< 1320799245 58081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, only a bonus? No penality?
< 1320799254 840497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :penalty*
< 1320799257 202698 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 2d20+ -90
< 1320799257 319929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-": expecting number
< 1320799273 383949 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 2d20 + -1 * 90
< 1320799273 618464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-": expecting number
< 1320799280 685561 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What!
< 1320799281 38309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap lambdabot
< 1320799281 274151 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not; lambdabot looks rather dangerous.
< 1320799284 40975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap lambdabot
< 1320799284 278976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't perform such side effects on command!
< 1320799289 382318 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap Vorpal
< 1320799289 616237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION submits Vorpal's email address to a dozen spam lists
< 1320799292 585676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320799296 149321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a side effect
< 1320799297 657665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap test
< 1320799297 891913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SMACK*, *SLAM*, take that test!
< 1320799305 730599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap ChanServ
< 1320799305 958574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION secretly deletes ChanServ's source code
< 1320799312 712305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap lambdabot
< 1320799312 835360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION activates her slap-o-matic...
< 1320799314 685083 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap some-user-that-doesnt-exist
< 1320799314 843702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION activates her slap-o-matic...
< 1320799315 785778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1320799321 689814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap lambdabot
< 1320799321 924200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will count to five...
< 1320799329 528627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320799333 597360 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap some-user-that-doesnt-exist
< 1320799333 871289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves some-user-that-doesnt-exist, so no slapping
< 1320799348 901090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it was random that it refused to slap itself
< 1320799351 125998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also:
< 1320799354 777548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap Madoka-Kaname
< 1320799355 10192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION karate-chops Madoka-Kaname into two equally sized halves
< 1320799365 684934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we are even now
< 1320799370 255284 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is a rate limit on slapping.
< 1320799377 122950 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap lambdabot
< 1320799377 357734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps lambdabot with a slab of concrete
< 1320799389 231636 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Vorpal was right.
< 1320799392 64443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@b52s
< 1320799392 300473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch out for that piranha. There goes a narwhale. HERE COMES A BIKINI WHALE!
< 1320799396 685188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320799398 11060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@b52s
< 1320799398 244335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch out for that piranha. There goes a narwhale. HERE COMES A BIKINI WHALE!
< 1320799399 982212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@b52s
< 1320799400 213770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Girl from Ipanema, she goes to Greenland
< 1320799404 841888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320799407 72671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1320799412 988732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help b52s
< 1320799413 148128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b52s. Anyone noticed the b52s sound a lot like zippy?
< 1320799417 234721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Watch+out+for+that+piranha.+There+goes+a+narwhale.+HERE+COMES+A+BIKINI+WHALE!
< 1320799417 589402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320799417 731377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Girl+from+Ipanema%2C+she+goes+to+Greenland
< 1320799423 351680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
< 1320799423 626442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :V RETURNS!
< 1320799426 223709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320799448 50260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah lyrics
< 1320799452 241643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a specific group
< 1320799453 752972 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
< 1320799453 870639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"#$%&'()*+,\""
< 1320799455 691120 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
< 1320799455 809636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"#$%&'()*+,\""
< 1320799456 842693 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
< 1320799457 70198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 'J'
< 1320799459 575234 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :なんでやねん
< 1320799474 919164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: what, please speak English
< 1320799494 700363 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1320799494 964951 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320799518 313758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Anyway: I think the story behind that was that some old version of the eval feature of lambdabot used an internal variable called v, which sometimes caused issues. Then it was renamed yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw.
< 1320799523 856496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is in use any more
< 1320799540 225372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@palomer
< 1320799540 348329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_|_)
< 1320799541 934598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@palomer
< 1320799542 47859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh!
< 1320799546 7198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help palomer
< 1320799546 143952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :palomer. Sound a bit like palomer on a good day.
< 1320799551 412804 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, and somebody decided to use it?
< 1320799552 190705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever that is
< 1320799563 144474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: well, v could be used by mistake quite easily
< 1320799570 788656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: the other one? Not so much
< 1320799577 643076 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malicious action =p
< 1320799592 108623 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@v
< 1320799592 222459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
< 1320799598 289855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: I don't think it ever broke anything as such. It just made it return the wrong answer sometimes.
< 1320799598 342848 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@v
< 1320799598 523130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"#$%&'()*+,\""
< 1320799615 762949 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be identical to the long command...
< 1320799622 124823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so yes
< 1320799647 955612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help messages?
< 1320799648 185787 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :messages?. Tells you whether you have any messages
< 1320799649 275182 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let a $ b = b a
< 1320799649 665248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help messages
< 1320799649 781223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:94:17:
< 1320799649 898719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Ambiguous occurrence `$'
< 1320799649 953423 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     It could refer to either `L....
< 1320799649 953711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :messages. Check your messages.
< 1320799651 471469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320799662 601975 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse$"abc"
< 1320799663 392631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "cba"
< 1320799667 711113 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let a $ b = b a
< 1320799668 214552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:94:17:
< 1320799668 342601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Ambiguous occurrence `$'
< 1320799668 395331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     It could refer to either `L....
< 1320799670 888155 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1320799679 962574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let v = 5 in v = 4
< 1320799680 800394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `='
< 1320799683 325025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1320799686 770293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to fix, night
< 1320799716 427971 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :>let 1+1=3;3+1=7 in 1+1+1
< 1320799723 497912 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 1+1=3;3+1=7 in 1+1+1
< 1320799724 241313 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  7
< 1320799739 908044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing
< 1320799748 85422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I wouldn't have expected that
< 1320799752 133342 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient haskell joke.
< 1320799763 180072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: how does that even work?
< 1320799764 727156 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't come up with that myself.
< 1320799772 101393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it rebinds (+) locally
< 1320799775 860243 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You locally define your own addition function.
< 1320799778 453943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, smart
< 1320799793 230912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, very nice
< 1320799799 504088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f 1 1 = 3; f 3 1 = 7 in f (f 1 1) 1
< 1320799800 249738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  7
< 1320799802 541962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = (+)
< 1320799806 190973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quite
< 1320799812 675656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a bit confusing at first :)
< 1320799850 745687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help kind
< 1320799850 880293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind . Return the kind of a type
< 1320799854 41716 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let testtestt = 3
< 1320799855 20396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1320799858 593350 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> testtestt
< 1320799860 37705 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  3
< 1320799861 254430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kind Maybe
< 1320799862 150764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -> *
< 1320799866 363405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh right
< 1320799873 789363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kind Maybe Integer
< 1320799874 762789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1320799877 417810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320799880 262365 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine testtestt
< 1320799903 653283 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> testtestt
< 1320799904 478426 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `testtestt'
< 1320799913 606850 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, undefining works, so...
< 1320799923 237721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: @undefine is a blunt weapon
< 1320799925 542617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clears the whole namespace
< 1320799948 490973 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@define x = 4
< 1320799953 644501 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@define y = 5
< 1320799959 96922 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine y
< 1320799961 140705 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x
< 1320799961 955664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  x
< 1320799966 480447 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1320799975 486285 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is good to have such a thing...
< 1320799984 604714 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let 1+1=3;3+1=7
< 1320799985 422668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1320799990 155518 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1+1+1
< 1320799990 943152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Ambiguous occurrence `+'
< 1320799991 81569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `L.+', defined at  [Bool]
< 1320803957 149774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Time.Calendar.Julian isJulianLeapYear :: Integer -> Bool
< 1320803957 263527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Time.Calendar.OrdinalDate isLeapYear :: Integer -> Bool
< 1320803957 316083 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Time.Calendar isLeapYear :: Integer -> Bool
< 1320803962 309484 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> [Bool]
< 1320803962 543629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
< 1320803962 665492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
< 1320803962 718983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude drop :: Int -> [a] -> [a]
< 1320804410 499857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: /msg
< 1320804507 571201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320804513 159539 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320805213 799139 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320806170 541198 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort [2, 1]
< 1320806171 358432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2]
< 1320806774 717041 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320806777 333257 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1320806777 387073 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320807129 27124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure how to do @'s DHT.
< 1320807180 245202 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor am I.
< 1320807198 85473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Woooooo
< 1320807214 526743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem with something like Chord is that who gets to host what data is essentially arbitrary, which is kind of lame
< 1320807238 695590 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My understanding of DHT is just shy of "MAGIC"
< 1320807242 274260 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. :)
< 1320807252 525618 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320807783 279855 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what's the best way for a person who hates JACK and Pulse to transfer the audio output of an ALSA application over a network >_>
< 1320807902 912785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with JACK
< 1320807907 406632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from being impossible to understand
< 1320807917 984342 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly the impossible-to-understand thing.
< 1320807931 454943 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I've used it it's taken about three seconds to go from "ahh" to "... wtf?"
< 1320807946 110072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://alsa.opensrc.org/Network
< 1320807968 179009 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That solution doesn't work with my audio card, it can't capture from "mixer" (all output)
< 1320807981 286510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just install Pulse for like three seconds :P
< 1320808017 231732 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped hating jack after I stopped trying to get it to work
< 1320808099 498214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the command to make an ALSA program use JACK?
< 1320808285 402136 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320808390 742166 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jackoff (sadly not)
< 1320808409 581088 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320809361 80019 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320812234 624912 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320812497 966682 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1320812602 15496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320812634 492577 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I need to create a list of all the elements in a binary search tree in reverse order"
< 1320812642 11585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree? reverse?
< 1320812655 596794 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has to be a trick question because it doesn't specify that it's complete.
< 1320812854 173951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Early today I wrote some things on paper, I think I could work these, new transformers in Haskell, which are called ProductT and SumT.
< 1320813031 503542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ProductT a b c = ProductT { leftPT :: a c, rightPT :: b c };   Now I think  Monoid x => ProductT (Constant x)  is a monad transformer.
< 1320813095 538346 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is correct? Or did I make a mistake?
< 1320813196 622828 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If it's a SEARCH tree then it's ordered.
< 1320813294 550810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah, right.
< 1320813297 103355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she means.
< 1320813334 288075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but then what is "reverse order", uh... descending?
< 1320813386 347807 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess an in-order traversal, outputting elements to a stack.
< 1320813522 81326 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably just the opposite order of whatever the comparison function ordered it as in the first place :P
< 1320813527 912591 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could just do a RTL traversal.
< 1320813594 619509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think she covered RTL but that would work equally well as pushing to a stack (or prepending to a list)
< 1320813619 593193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I looked, I think the "ProductT" I have is really like the Data.Functor.Product.Product but there is already a Data.Monoid.Product and since I knew about that at first, I gave mine a different name.
< 1320813671 503592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this class is in the nomenclature of C++, thus "list" means linked list.
< 1320813679 715839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :STL/C++
< 1320813923 864859 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Alternately, you could make it a binary search tree linked list.
< 1320813933 951577 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-181.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because more confusing data structures are wonderful.
< 1320814097 699006 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a ring of sets (actually predicates in this case, meaning what is element of a set), is this correct?   instance MonoidMinus (Predicate t) where { mpinverse = id; };
< 1320814152 229845 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION switches to #esoteric, sees  ... MonoidMinus ..., cautionsly switches in the opposite direction.
< 1320814185 13299 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a MonoidMinus? Ah, just a monoid with inverses?
< 1320814199 814628 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone say group
< 1320814215 164937 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If so, that's usually called a "Group".)
< 1320814217 277230 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320814251 161249 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. Actually, I do have a "Group" class which does that; "MonoidMinus" is for the inverse of the "MonoidPlus", where "MonoidPlus" is what "Monoid" instance is distributive over.
< 1320814285 199929 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have "Semiring" and "Ring" to indicate they follow additional properties.
< 1320814300 626265 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's MonoidPlus?
< 1320814314 679359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I told you, isn't it?
< 1320814344 42291 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understood.
< 1320814365 994981 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MonoidPlus" is what "Monoid" instance is distributive over.
< 1320814371 645075 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the MonoidPlus for Product acts like the Monoid for Sum.
< 1320814388 644680 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Oh! Why didn't zzo38 say so.
< 1320814399 89702 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What are the MonoidPlus laws?
< 1320814460 889806 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They are the monoid laws and the distributive laws. Semirings have some additional laws; if they follow those laws, make it also instance of Semiring (which has no methods of its own).
< 1320814534 467934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically:  mpappend mpempty x = x; mpappend x mpempty = x; mpappend x (mpappend y z) = mpappend (mpappend x y) z; mpconcat = foldr mpappend mpempty; mappend x (mpappend y z) = mpappend (mappend x y) (mappend x z); mappend (mpappend y z) x = mpappend (mappend y x) (mappend z x);
< 1320814559 657761 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semirings have these additional laws:  mappend mpempty x = mpempty; mappend x mpempty = mpempty; mpappend x y = mpappend y x;
< 1320815417 374290 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320816207 118252 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people!
< 1320816213 687083 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :choose a business card design!
< 1320816216 170398 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us.moo.com/design-templates/business-cards/pack/black-white.html
< 1320816216 989040 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us.moo.com/design-templates/business-cards/pack/urban-abstraction.html
< 1320816217 41321 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us.moo.com/design-templates/business-cards/pack/lets-talk.html
< 1320816217 772773 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us.moo.com/design-templates/business-cards/pack/chris-keegan-business-cards.html
< 1320816219 447968 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us.moo.com/design-templates/business-cards/pack/perfect-paisley.html
< 1320816221 719997 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us.moo.com/design-templates/business-cards/pack/luminous-nature.html
< 1320816229 208601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320816316 725730 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Observation: None of the "perfect paisley" business cards are paisley.
< 1320816328 509414 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i know
< 1320816332 480921 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people dont know what paisley is
< 1320816337 165950 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'est la vie
< 1320816703 71464 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1320816989 390054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used business cards designs. I just used TeX to lay out text and logos on the card. All that we had was a laser printer anyways (although here and now, I have a inkjet printer)
< 1320817110 812505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: chris keegan, black and white, or urban abstraction
< 1320817115 129078 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly in order of personal preference.
< 1320817254 231409 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1320818536 47128 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :OracleOfHalting
< 1320818937 245042 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320818988 176760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you change the Godel sentences ("This is unprovable") into a computer program that halts if and only if the statement is true, such that waiting for the program to halt, and that if it does halt that is considered a valid proof?
< 1320819045 214291 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search for a proof and disproof at the same time
< 1320819073 577830 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know what your question was so I answered the question that I liked
< 1320819135 546320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what the Tortoise did; and found both at the same time. (Of course it is the dialogue made up by Hofstadter, though. I doubt it can happen.)
< 1320819318 544609 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320820426 668816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey monqy, can you promise to make a brainfuck derivative if I'm not offline in the next five minutes?
< 1320820431 875808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A really awful one.
< 1320820437 438641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And delegate the brickbraining to me.
< 1320820445 616922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it happens to me instead of you.
< 1320820550 818210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, CakeProphet: You do it instead.
< 1320820733 170173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320820872 98697 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: I will sleep.
< 1320821599 312163 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320822628 135207 :OracleOfHalting!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320822836 967113 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320823134 340820 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320823134 772358 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320823134 824822 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320823156 936664 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320823244 219290 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320823877 259016 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving
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< 1320826457 860454 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320827066 564431 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320827336 542415 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320827477 690845 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-61.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320829171 683316 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320830344 665913 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320832186 909192 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320832202 608254 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d0d6.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320834699 260316 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320840617 702511 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-61.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: left
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< 1320844002 70645 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-143.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320844115 71519 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320846624 686918 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1320848208 830559 :jack!~jack@host-150-203.consiagnet.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320848230 955046 :jack!~jack@host-150-203.consiagnet.it PART :#esoteric
< 1320850091 611384 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320850149 222277 :sllide!~jari@86.94.177.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320850335 739357 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320850483 908834 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320850664 197330 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320851383 82254 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320851675 782401 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320851892 860355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320852194 818210 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320852217 855528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320853047 916288 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320853407 687472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Peter Serafinowicz was the voice of Darth Maul?
< 1320853414 637659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :His role in space is now 50 times funnier.
< 1320853482 554463 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320853973 878828 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320854348 502227 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320854358 940866 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, mind if I think here out loud? Great.
< 1320854407 27567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear.
< 1320854418 964761 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320854429 728020 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you've got an exponentiation b^a, where b and a are complex numbers.  You can separate b into a positive part and a unitary part, and a into a real part and an imaginary part.  Taking a positive number to any complex power is easy, so we only have to worry about the unitary part of the base.
< 1320854492 589693 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking the unitary part to a real power is easy *if* the unitary part is 1 or the power is an integer.  Otherwise, lasciate ogne speranza.  So the only question is what happens when you take a unitary thing to an imaginary power.
< 1320854696 719954 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wait, every unitary number is of the form e^(i t).  So the unitary thingy is simply of the form e^(i t a), so it's all good... well, no, t is actually an angle, so a needs to be something you can multiply angles by.  An integer, always.
< 1320854717 614427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh?
< 1320854730 145999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept of multiplication of reals is new to you?
< 1320854732 540927 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So b^a just plain doesn't make entirely much sense unless b is positive or a is an integer.
< 1320854735 850632 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, everyone!
< 1320854756 433311 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's half of the angle whose sine is 0 and whose cosine is 1?
< 1320854769 156110 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find that there are entirely too many correct answers.
< 1320854789 967417 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse, what's phi times that angle?
< 1320854791 255755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I won't.
< 1320854817 600320 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two is too many, and I refuse to throw out just one of them!
< 1320854846 603386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll find that general exponentiation obviously isn't a map from C → C.
< 1320854879 24079 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what I said?
< 1320854906 311983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You took a while to arrive at that conclusion.
< 1320854916 866332 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1320855033 684457 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, C → C → C.
< 1320855298 638897 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like a map ((R+, C) u (C / {0}, Z) u (C, N_0)) -> C.
< 1320855334 798286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, alternately, C → C → P(C).
< 1320855661 448760 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Predicate on C?
< 1320855945 790900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh?
< 1320856051 448395 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by P(C)?
< 1320856057 240283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powerset?
< 1320856058 418666 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.  The power set of C.
< 1320856266 420097 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320856313 917641 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320856323 223177 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320856344 867423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320856376 51711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> read "1337" :: Int
< 1320856376 780357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1337
< 1320856380 475338 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> read "1337" :: Float
< 1320856380 897641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1337.0
< 1320856385 948989 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type directed name resolution.
< 1320856430 226778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1320856441 873040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nothing. O:)
< 1320856448 400201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:27:  WTF, Peter Serafinowicz was the voice of Darth Maul?
< 1320856451 953953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I KNOW RIGHT?
< 1320856460 531833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PETER WHY
< 1320856484 381199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:34:  His role in space is now 50 times funnier.
< 1320856484 471038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Role in space(tm)
< 1320856496 888090 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I did.
< 1320856511 503038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1320856534 847971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say 'space' rather than 'Spaced'.
< 1320856539 898011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW who says P(S) for powerset, I am hereby not friends with anyone who doesn't either use fancy LaTeX for it or 2^S.
< 1320856546 740216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION set theory notation police
< 1320856578 536336 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur plice burality
< 1320856607 2006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :burality
< 1320856668 345666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bareility?
< 1320856704 651873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bulity.
< 1320856819 913520 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool people write C -> Prop.
< 1320858629 877228 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320859306 116145 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320859354 717327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy.
< 1320859364 903624 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859438 696049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moqny
< 1320859490 407758 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859509 96989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859519 187500 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859519 447651 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859528 513118 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott
< 1320859534 759177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht
< 1320859538 268741 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1320859539 401944 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859543 220863 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859544 509895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ih
< 1320859548 247285 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1320859552 472868 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1320859552 781052 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1320859553 837705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :q
< 1320859555 232071 :tswebb!943d7387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.61.115.135 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1320859563 477717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to do something about these malfunctioning emote bots.
< 1320859577 366637 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320859585 93756 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motion that derrik be kicked and he and tiffany banned, effective immediately.
< 1320859701 337856 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover
< 1320859735 545486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one is even more vapid than tiffany.
< 1320859762 892551 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o~o
< 1320859765 850389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You don't understand, he's a professional teacher.
< 1320859772 582184 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least o~o is exciting
< 1320859780 892922 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :enthralling
< 1320859792 769924 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an true adventure
< 1320860015 201476 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I...
< 1320860050 177461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Speechlessness. The hallmark of a thick adult!
< 1320860575 86382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320860889 143029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1320860896 442979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1320861107 920352 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1320861116 211911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia
< 1320861142 778350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover
< 1320861156 623579 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1320861166 816695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi yiyus
< 1320861191 301272 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi 
< 1320861228 901711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would never ping ais523 monqy derrik elliott augur boily copumpkin Phantom_Hoover aloril fizzie sllide pikhq sebbu2 CakeProphet mtve variable FireFly chickenzilla Madoka-Kaname Vorpal yorick atehwa kmc mycroftiv Nisstyre olsner MDude shachaf Deewiant EgoBot quintopia Slereah_ Zwaarddijk BeholdMyGlory myndzi yiyus SimonRC rodgort ineiros_ tswett clog jix Gregor glogbot Zetro bd_ lambdabot coppro lifth
< 1320861229 140661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rasiir HackEgo twice11 all at once
< 1320861233 333189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320861236 971242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh poor lifthrasiir missed out on that :(
< 1320861238 618203 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320861241 694475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to get kicked now
< 1320861253 62356 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Come on.
< 1320861256 599328 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs
< 1320861258 62641 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard u mad yesterday.
< 1320861258 650004 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320861260 351525 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how you put your own name in there
< 1320861269 642558 :sllide!~jari@86.94.177.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, exactly
< 1320861270 650171 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ddarius concurred that u mad.
< 1320861273 975343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you didn't lie, but only be cause it was split onto multiple lines :P
< 1320861281 459798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the middle of a name
< 1320861281 512366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing quite like flood of hatred that comes after a channel ping :')
< 1320861291 854133 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's magical
< 1320861295 127191 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like a good old stabbing in the face
< 1320861299 790817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also magical
< 1320861326 568794 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NYAN NYAN NYANNYAN NYAN NYANYANYAN NYAN NYAN, NYAN NYAN NYANNYAN NYAN NYANYANYANYANYANYANYANYAN
< 1320861334 732115 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps elliott around a bit with a very large trout
< 1320861338 269082 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320861343 638089 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to feed the troll.
< 1320861345 243596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: Oh my god, it's 2001!
< 1320861346 117167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor..................
< 1320861353 277427 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu..................
< 1320861359 540744 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks shachaf
< 1320861366 354063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for not being them
< 1320861371 802146 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ====Oö ?
< 1320861375 321492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also not Gregor or sebbu.
< 1320861378 959755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks elliott
< 1320861383 85399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks monqy.
< 1320861383 347376 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks twice11
< 1320861394 768960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is going to ping everyone but Gregor and sebbu in thanks.
< 1320861397 482662 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks ineiros_ thanks derrik thanks augur thanks SimonRC thanks Zetro
< 1320861398 920231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320861402 425250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you
< 1320861404 162423 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoiled it
< 1320861406 70914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sory
< 1320861408 815419 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can't ping everyone
< 1320861415 790148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, it'll just be unfunny and meaningless
< 1320861418 53060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the best way to do it
< 1320861420 637708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys
< 1320861426 135448 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shun on all massive highlighters would be good :)
< 1320861448 744320 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does /clear
< 1320861450 851424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: This channel NEEDS ME.
< 1320861459 748617 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official NYAN support channel for Web o' Flies | Also official channel of VelNYANta | VelNYANta: Why NYAN, when you can VelNYANta! | NYAN http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/#NYAN
< 1320861473 158151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :no | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861473 638766 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo
< 1320861476 112229 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ysss
< 1320861477 538537 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1320861477 658720 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320861483 851302 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :nyano | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861486 191102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quick reactions :)
< 1320861488 897736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net TOPIC #esoteric :yes | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861489 581407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861497 643978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :codu more like no-do
< 1320861502 690394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?
< 1320861519 44003 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :This channel can never truly escape THE CAT | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861520 845937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to Gregor's topic change
< 1320861529 366193 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net TOPIC #esoteric :This channel can never truly escape bad topics | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861532 481877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you get used to it after a few days of asiekierka
< 1320861541 259977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric
< 1320861543 915573 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad truths topic
< 1320861544 569914 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric :+t
> 1320861544 862040 NAMES :#esoteric
< 1320861545 48089 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip
< 1320861547 315240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip
< 1320861548 914808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you missed the slash
< 1320861555 379339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where?
< 1320861555 647478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also abused power :'(
< 1320861560 385609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not telling you!
< 1320861568 408113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, trailing slash
< 1320861575 262806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link works anyway, so
< 1320861584 31020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just temporary until people calm down a bit with the topic screwing
< 1320861584 207242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it redirects, that's putting load on Gregor's servers
< 1320861593 584281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ais523 is abusing his op powers to DDoS you :'(
< 1320861605 81009 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861606 597328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better?
< 1320861618 779332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, all Gregor has to do is move the logs and you're obligated to change the topic
< 1320861643 557755 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATTENTION:
< 1320861658 639624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't say that, he'll move them somewhere obnoxious
< 1320861660 958620 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channel logs will now be moved to http://codu.org/nyannyannyannyannyannyannyannyannyannyannyanlogs/_esoteric/
< 1320861665 703306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly
< 1320861680 544469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you don't do that I'll be really disappointed.
< 1320861684 963192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but don't you not want an obnoxious topic
< 1320861685 792825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow i figured the new logs would have "nyan" in them, but i did not expect that much
< 1320861688 904625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can keep the same programs working just with ln -s
< 1320861693 647407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I could legally retaliate by kicking glogbot
< 1320861696 62844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320861697 425722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be bad for everyone
< 1320861698 87069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but this is a bargaining chip to get -t :P
< 1320861710 342713 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My laziness is greater than my nyanniness.
< 1320861713 287347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't want me to kick glogbot, would you?
< 1320861730 431470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the +t is only temporary, just like you do a temporary +m to people widely spamming msgs in the channel
< 1320861733 594698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You'd have to link to the clog logs instead, including the old zip of 'em
< 1320861738 315070 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523
> 1320861738 337338 NAMES :#esoteric
< 1320861743 553133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric :-t
> 1320861743 563687 NAMES :#esoteric
< 1320861745 522592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523
> 1320861745 544418 NAMES :#esoteric
< 1320861752 15025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, now the fun is over. :'(
< 1320861800 488332 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is Not Your Average Network chat channel! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320861824 136167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320861828 322197 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: back soon
< 1320861833 931468 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye derrik
< 1320861853 400885 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye derrik, we hardly knew ye (as ye never talked)
< 1320861856 917439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, I'll agree with that compromise
< 1320861883 109546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh no, he did
< 1320861895 526744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: just hope we don't get to know him any more
< 1320861942 431716 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320862170 57185 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320862204 484855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was way too soon.
< 1320862245 901908 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty elliott
< 1320862254 67391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi relevant peole
< 1320862266 790259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've talked to derrik ever, but he/she was here earlier
< 1320862281 786580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you missed out on that day?
< 1320862286 188590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're one of the lucky ones :)
< 1320862319 418030 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1320862564 874291 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320862598 683399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip ais523
< 1320862608 861154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1320862610 371463 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1320862628 238661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time the computer's suddenly cut out during updates
< 1320862639 378560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if it's in a sane state after that; it seemed to boot up OK
< 1320862655 934670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you used Kitten, you'd have atomic upgrades... :)
< 1320862674 505327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
< 1320862685 935737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why it can't do that automatically?
< 1320862704 147036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can end up doing debconf stuff
< 1320862712 338405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1320862718 885852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a GUI package manager, it should be able to handle it itself
< 1320862720 498614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, none of that with kitten, either :-P
< 1320862776 102661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, seems it had almost finished
< 1320862777 20607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320862786 594544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the configure took about half a second, then it was fully up-to-date
< 1320862845 557481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: regular reminder that this problem doesn't even exist with kitten!!! kitten: the best.
< 1320862881 216053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in Kitten, you'd still need to GC the partial update and do the update properly
< 1320862920 705971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're just stringing random words together and hoping they come out correct, right? :P
< 1320862945 204755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out what would happen if the power was cut while Kitten was in the middle of writing a file
< 1320862949 332939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :during a package update
< 1320862973 772510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file it was writing wouldn't be used, presumably, because it wouldn't be recorded as being in the unionfslikefs as something to mount
< 1320862983 984093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd still exist, and you wouldn't want it to hang around forever
< 1320862995 722844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll explain, to stop you making up nonsense :P
< 1320862995 894515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you also presumably still want it, so you'd have to redo the update
< 1320863045 763880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320863057 520434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You'd have to define "package update". The upgrade process in Kitten looks like this: Figure out which packages have new versions. Install them -- likely by downloading a binary tarball and extracting it -- into the store. That's guaranteed not to "overwrite" anything because the store is immutable, hash-based, etc. etc. etc.; the old versions of the packages are still there. Once all that is d
< 1320863057 573064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, then /atomically/ switch over the user environment to use the new versions of all the upgraded packages.
< 1320863069 936226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old versions then become garbage (assuming nothing else -- e.g. another user -- is referencing them), and can be GC'd.
< 1320863089 998832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the operation I was describing as an update
< 1320863098 446850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but it's composed of multiple operations.
< 1320863108 86497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tarballs are extracted to a temporary directory and then moved into the store, so that's atomic too.
< 1320863117 142584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, there is no way for a crash during a Kitten upgrade to produce an inconsistent state at all.
< 1320863119 12856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, using atomic mv?
< 1320863122 3750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320863123 891642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't produce an inconsistent state
< 1320863132 392854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it failed half-way through installing the packages, you'd just re-run it, and it'd do the rest.
< 1320863138 65606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about if the temporary directory was half-written
< 1320863142 161867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might do one of them again, if it failed while unpacking it.
< 1320863144 848634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose it regularly gets cleaned away anyway
< 1320863161 491011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's per-package.
< 1320863183 643593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like a few hundred megs waste at most, and it'll probably get cleaned up as soon as the package manager notices it has some junk temporary files lying around.
< 1320863198 720426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Won't unpack to /tmp: rename(2) is not atomic across filesystems!)
< 1320863206 284192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And also you might not have enough RAM to store the package, anyway.)
< 1320863239 178748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way of garbage collecting the old versions would work in case some user or program requires the old version for some reason. Or in case you want to tell it to keep the old one temporarily in case the new one is broken and you want to revert some programs to the old one!
< 1320863242 511063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename(2) works across filesystems at all?
< 1320863256 749308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, aren't tmpfses capable of swapping to disk if required?
< 1320863256 801678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, probably not, but mv does
< 1320863275 696172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yep! (Packages that depend on older versions will keep referencing them and work fine even without doing anything special.)
< 1320863277 553782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they weren't, there'd be no difference between a tmpfs and shmfs
< 1320863290 216130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course you have to manually select an old version to run programs that depend on an older version that aren't part of the package manager.)
< 1320863291 739598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how would the GC determine which packages were being referenced?
< 1320863302 136846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mark-and-sweep
< 1320863307 917299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it do the marking?
< 1320863319 366321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems nontrivial to tell whether a package is in use or not
< 1320863326 122121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the user profiles (sets of packages users have installed) are the roots.
< 1320863335 965875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then you just do a regular conservative scan from there.
< 1320863340 359913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's at the package level?
< 1320863349 338137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Any package that references another will contain its store path.
< 1320863352 695807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if a user uninstalls a package while using it?
< 1320863358 705191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. running an executable from it?
< 1320863359 578675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (this breaks if something stores its library paths in UTF-16, or whatever)
< 1320863362 26060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but nobody does that)
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< 1320863371 572319 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
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< 1320863374 305447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's like memfrobbing a pointer when using boehm gc)
< 1320863385 339761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I forget whether memfrob is reversible
< 1320863390 36579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define uninstall...
< 1320863394 996312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably you mean "removing from the environment"
< 1320863404 270437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: removes the package from the list of packages that they state they want
< 1320863422 470222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, all the package's references to itself will use absolute store path locations.
< 1320863432 826225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And removing a package from the environment doesn't remove it from the store, only GCing does that.
< 1320863435 287165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But...
< 1320863436 569326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do that :P
< 1320863445 748022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fearing the answer was "don't do that"
< 1320863451 97276 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320863456 968187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would be easy enough for the package manager to figure out whether you're using it
< 1320863457 760292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the package isn't in any user's lists, so it's risking being GCed
< 1320863465 513035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and refuse to let you remove it
< 1320863466 427666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more important for old versions, though
< 1320863471 331112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm pretty sure it's obvious
< 1320863477 749897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, GC doesn't just run willy-nilly for a reason
< 1320863481 846171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you GC when you're low on disk
< 1320863491 366654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can add packages manually to the set of gc roots, though
< 1320863495 855301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uninstalling" a package while using it is a bit weird; but upgrading it while using it is quite common
< 1320863497 810301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to protect it while not referencing it from any environments
< 1320863520 235393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought you meant doing it while GCing
< 1320863528 940440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, things won't break if you upgrade without rebooting
< 1320863540 459898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, if the GC runs after doing that
< 1320863545 765254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the gc doesn't just "run"
< 1320863548 843728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system administrator has to run it
< 1320863554 480618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when's a sensible time to run it?
< 1320863558 608275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I can think of is during boot
< 1320863560 885218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you're running out of disk for the store
< 1320863571 918678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just want to reclaim some free space
< 1320863573 391427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but people might have just upgraded a package they're using when that happens
< 1320863582 601836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd reboot at the same time to get kernel upgrades
< 1320863593 4199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say ksplice and I'll ragequit)
< 1320863604 523891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hate Oracle that much? :P
< 1320863604 794651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a periodic maintanence task, not anything that needs to be run with regularity
< 1320863612 131236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320863628 104631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, hmm
< 1320863628 234055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might make most sense to run it on every boot
< 1320863638 717092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, no, there would be no risk
< 1320863648 532772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because you keep old user environments
< 1320863655 574261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those have to be deleted manually to stop them referencing old packages
< 1320863669 696930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the repeated "manual" here
< 1320863681 840702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd make most sense to delete them when the user had no logins
< 1320863687 639711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so basically, if you upgraded ten times without rebooting, then the sysadmin said "delete every user environment older than the last 10 and gc"
< 1320863691 855754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then things would break
< 1320863695 32116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like it makes sense to GC packages on boot
< 1320863701 104017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right
< 1320863702 537119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that doesn't make sense at all
< 1320863705 736559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can rollback on boot
< 1320863708 250464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why the sysadmin needs to make potentially incorrect decisions
< 1320863713 823606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the major advantages of a purely functional package manager
< 1320863720 95603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can select an old profile from the GRUB menu to roll back to it
< 1320863723 98955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you break something
< 1320863730 752805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right; I think that would count as a reference for the GC
< 1320863737 640984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sysadmin doesn't make potentially incorrect decisions, you just don't understand the model :)
< 1320863743 526806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC things that have fallen off the end of the rollback menu on boot
< 1320863754 397059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they don't fall off
< 1320863759 176853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a matter of system policy when you clean them up
< 1320863769 113141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320863771 535505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, falling off is a sensible system policy, right?
< 1320863774 632138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense to delete all but the last 10 for each user before GCing
< 1320863778 571962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host
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< 1320863785 640061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar
< 1320863794 346699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm saying is, it's OK to have the rules customizable, even to entirely manual
< 1320863797 881425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but entirely manual is not a sane default
< 1320863805 960625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me tell you about cron!
< 1320863812 746270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not the package manager's job to run itself periodically
< 1320863819 846862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a matter of system policy and is why we have generic scheduling tools
< 1320863824 173522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the system as a whole, not the package manager itself
< 1320863831 94643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for desktop users, it /does/ make sense to have it be manual
< 1320863836 494891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting it in the crontab would be a sensible default, for instance
< 1320863841 142945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no reason to delete things until you actually need more space
< 1320863850 74697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not something a computer can determine; you need more space when you want more space
< 1320863877 863518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need more space when you want more space, indeed; and if you want more space, you don't want to manually have to run a bunch of "free up space" things
< 1320863887 180259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want them to already have happened by the time you want more space
< 1320863898 7865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you don't have to think "oh, I want to create a file, let me run the spacecleaner first"
< 1320863903 91540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just think "I want to create a file"
< 1320863914 640202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is why people don't consider 4 gigabytes a large disk
< 1320863920 835184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extreme version of your opinion would be a system that always used your entire disk, all the time
< 1320863931 520377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever you wanted to create a file, you requested it to purge a bit of space to create the file in
< 1320863933 804559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm
< 1320863943 467871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not hook the spacecleaning things into the open/close/write syscalls, in that case?
< 1320863954 733196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's automated, it's actually a reasonable thing to do
< 1320863955 854702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I hadn't given up on this by the last message, I just did
< 1320864004 775718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the system does not delete the user's data without asking or being told to. simple as that
< 1320864016 972698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, when you have an opinion as insane as this one, you generally realise why it's wrong after a few months of actually using it
< 1320864024 357328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose there's no real point in trying to convince you now
< 1320864051 937399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the NixOS guys don't seem to have any problem with it after 7 years of production use
< 1320864071 647816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320864081 816349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you want a system that nobody else wants
< 1320864087 25377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt their GC is entirely manual
< 1320864087 980344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320864089 310069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is
< 1320864103 872905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is the thing ais523 is suggesting here?
< 1320864115 959323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a bad idea; you can read the logs if you want more detail
< 1320864138 601188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You should periodically run the Nix garbage collector to get rid of unused packages, since uninstalls or upgrades don't actually delete them:
< 1320864138 653940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nix-collect-garbage -d"
< 1320864139 704183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1320864141 299350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course, since disk space is not infinite, unused packages should be removed at some point. You can do this by running the Nix garbage collector. It will remove from the Nix store any package not used (directly or indirectly) by any generation of any profile.
< 1320864141 351825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note however that as long as old generations reference a package, it will not be deleted. After all, we wouldn’t be able to do a rollback otherwise. So in order for garbage collection to be effective, you should also delete (some) old generations. Of course, this should only be done if you are certain that you will not need to roll back."
< 1320864178 17677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that if a system requires a GC, then the GC should actually run when needed, rather than making the user have to remember it exists
< 1320864194 659553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or you could get the misleading version straight from him :)
< 1320864198 300746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  from a quick glance at the scrollback, it seems you want package garbage collection to be automatic. Even "normal" distros doesn't automatically remove downloaded files. You need something like apt-get clean or pacman -Sc for that
< 1320864203 978946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hope i've cleared up your doubts
< 1320864204 506083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should it be any different here
< 1320864212 908749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want it, just put it in the crontab
< 1320864228 788407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they put them in /var/cache, whose entire purpose for existence is that it can be automatically cleaned at any time
< 1320864239 917478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523 wants even worse than that, he wants /automatic scheduled deletion/ of old package configurations in the crontab by default
< 1320864245 340486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have not seen that happen though
< 1320864255 397733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: show me where that is actually done automatically
< 1320864258 775854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /var/cache is meant to be cleaned manually
< 1320864261 89922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to /tmp
< 1320864264 768484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's not called /tmp
< 1320864289 823792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err? /tmp is cleaned on boot, that doesn't make sense with the intended purpose /var/cache
< 1320864293 199745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*intended purpose of
< 1320864299 945372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be cleaned only when the disk is getting full
< 1320864310 63788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is of course possible ubuntu cleans it automatically but I don't think so
< 1320864314 769861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if distros didn't clean the older half of it when the disk was getting near full
< 1320864331 400407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pretty sure no distro does that currently
< 1320864353 698835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and automatic removing of old configs is insane
< 1320864358 291169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know that Windows does, when the disk space becomes full
< 1320864367 377417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a linux distro
< 1320864372 960080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking revelation: packages don't take up most of the disk, user files like audio/video do
< 1320864376 829535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said distro above, define your meaning of distro
< 1320864377 766362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/images
< 1320864380 103455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely automatically, but it lists a bunch of things that would make sense to delete, in order of how likely they are to be safe to delete
< 1320864389 414925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would like to point out that ubuntu doesn't delete old kernels after you installed a newer one
< 1320864392 635514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do that by hand
< 1320864449 801730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is this any different?
< 1320864454 577845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, and that confused me, I don't see why it'd need more than 3 or 4 or so
< 1320864459 319212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320864464 269068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is up to the user?
< 1320864477 161583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why it shouldn't be configurable
< 1320864483 490458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but infinity isn't a sane default for that
< 1320864497 884539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, say, for bash_history, the default is much too low, and infinity would be a saner default there
< 1320864505 121314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as looking arbitrarily far back in your bash history is actually useful
< 1320864521 138371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas old kernels are likely to be around elsewhere online, so can always be redownloaded
< 1320864572 897448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I actually have multiple kernels on my laptop, I use a newer one that I have graphical issues with (because X isn't new enough) but where they improved various things for battery time a lot when I need that. Then I use the standard distro kernel when I know I will be on AC for quite a while
< 1320864575 755426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like over weekends
< 1320864590 384649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you could just write your own cron job for these misfeatures
< 1320864593 410956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be hard
< 1320864602 147491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in that case, wouldn't you just mark both kernels as desired versions to keep around by hand?
< 1320864613 574889 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C57D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320864621 571635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but you just added complexity to the solution
< 1320864621 683070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, say, when you went and transferred your list of packages onto a different physical computer, you wouldn't have the old versions you were using
< 1320864648 620142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't; that complexity exists anyway both in elliott's distro/Nix, and (if you want to be sane) in your case too
< 1320864658 626598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a list of installed packages, right?
< 1320864659 283887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the newer kernel version I use was basically manually backported and have non-standard options. I would have to compile a new kernel for another system anyway
< 1320864672 355260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want the list to be different from the set of packages that are actually installed?
< 1320864675 153244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : whereas, say, for bash_history, the default is much too low, and infinity would be a saner default there <-- not really, that would grow forever much quicker than package history
< 1320864694 868557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : why would you want the list to be different from the set of packages that are actually installed? <-- ... where did I claim that?
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< 1320864897 21925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: having fun?
< 1320864900 69278 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you seriously saying that your bash history grows faster than the binaries of all the kernels you've ever used?
< 1320864908 912170 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, my computer just locked up and I had to hard reboot
< 1320864910 814354 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird
< 1320864913 589716 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing if there's anything in the logs
< 1320864936 959185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. I'm watching a video now.
< 1320864938 449850 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(magic sysrq wasn't working, nor was control-alt-F1, and the mouse pointer wouldn't move; strangely, the sound card just kept looping the last second or so of what it had been playing)
< 1320864963 94916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320864982 481161 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1320865045 96082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing relevant in logs
< 1320865067 535241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were just cut off, much as I'd expect if I hard-rebooted while the system was running normally
< 1320865106 129093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only unusual thing I was doing was "$ du --si --summarize /usr /home"
< 1320865114 78693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was curious as to their relative sizes on my system
< 1320865182 605350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, umm, taking a while, which isn't surprising
< 1320865192 802212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the total size of /usr and /home isn't recorded anywhere, so it has to be worked out
< 1320865226 900054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would be reasonable to design an fs to record the total size of directories? it'd be O(depth of directory tree) to update, I'm not sure if that'd be too expensive
< 1320865329 52446 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320865590 624938 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So b^a just plain doesn't make entirely much sense unless b is positive or a is an integer.
< 1320865609 528130 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: multivalued functions, man.
< 1320865641 27296 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even b=1 is interesting to consider that way.
< 1320865684 613832 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1^(1/n) naturally has all the values cos (2*k*pi/n) + i sin (2*k*pi/n)
< 1320865728 785613 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're the solutions to z^n = 1, for one thing)
< 1320865782 800313 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you need to choose a branch of the function.
< 1320865800 176970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually I can check size of /usr and /home really quick
< 1320865811 200517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1320865818 171919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have 11G in /usr, 53G in /home
< 1320865832 262996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the packages on the system have been upgraded at least 5 times
< 1320865833 99905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here is how:
< 1320865835 459418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ df -h | grep -E '(/usr|/home)$'
< 1320865835 594578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/mapper/array-home        192G  158G   25G  87% /home
< 1320865835 647190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/mapper/array-usr          20G  9,9G  8,9G  53% /usr
< 1320865850 714800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's interesting
< 1320865858 876068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is?
< 1320865861 776502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/mapper
< 1320865868 526174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it is basically LVM2
< 1320865878 941434 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320865878 994937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I note that your /home is only three times the size of your /usr
< 1320865887 504333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's is probably thousands of times the size, knowing him
< 1320865900 550789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have never grown /usr since installing the system. I have grown /home a few times
< 1320865916 370214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently reinstalled this system so I can't say.
< 1320865920 225137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but you aren't storing old versions of most packages in /usr, are you?
< 1320865946 453011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, that's a really good time to say, assuming you transferred over /home and transferred over the list of installed packages so that /usr contained the same packages
< 1320865966 570720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't transfer /home from a dead machine.
< 1320865978 3842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm
< 1320865978 298514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no because I use arch. My current partition scheme would not fit nixos. nixos doesn't even have an /usr. If I were to switch (and I'm contemplating this, still a few issues that needs to be ironed out first though), I would drop /usr and reorganize stuff a bit
< 1320865981 596446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even from backups?
< 1320865989 336993 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: nite
< 1320865992 260801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by taking the drive out of it and connecting it up directly?
< 1320866014 33813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, nixos has a place-where-packages-are-stored
< 1320866017 479562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't imagine elliott backs up anything beyond, say, ssh keys or web browser profile
< 1320866021 30371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1320866023 694706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may not be /usr, but certainly has a similar purpose
< 1320866035 960108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, I suspect my more recent ssh keys aren't actually backed up
< 1320866044 231904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only ever made the one backup of dotfiles
< 1320866054 905853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hadn't yet set up backups there for various reasons, although I have slightly old backups of the things I care about most (~/Code, mostly)
< 1320866058 370002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about web browser profiles being backed up, most things I care about I memorized the URLs for
< 1320866060 860897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the passwords
< 1320866067 946586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK
< 1320866069 140897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nixos has one file in /bin, that is /bin/sh, and is a symlink. No /usr, not /sbin. It is all done in different ways
< 1320866073 958042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and extracting the HD would require taking a chip welded onto the motherboard
< 1320866082 395062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch
< 1320866087 808628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then wiring it up to an enclosure somehow
< 1320866106 966458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't care about web browser profiles being backed up, most things I care about I memorized the URLs for <-- well, if you use the key ring feature of your browser
< 1320866110 501951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do that)
< 1320866111 597893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that doesn't mean that there isn't a part of the system where installed executables are stored, though
< 1320866134 990492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, Apple have decided that they don't have to fix the MacBook Air according to the warranty
< 1320866136 256129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, the browser has some passwords memorized; but I have them memorized too
< 1320866142 976735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm used to logging in from different systems
< 1320866144 413241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want 500 pounds to fix it
< 1320866146 182420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, how old was it?
< 1320866150 887159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in related news, I have a new doorstop
< 1320866153 711187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very thin
< 1320866157 613245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: less than a year
< 1320866158 458656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, but I wouldn't put it on a separate partition from / for nixos. I would probably use / /home /boot and possibly /tmp (unless I do that in tmpfs)
< 1320866176 848087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably the warranty excludes all damage that isn't caused by, I don't know, God
< 1320866177 280453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they what?
< 1320866181 67550 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has one big / partition :P
< 1320866187 340373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So does everyone sane.
< 1320866192 860330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sucks
< 1320866193 938628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might be able to get them to fix it on statutary warranty, if the damage is their fault
< 1320866207 630235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have one big / partition, but suspect it may be a bad idea
< 1320866217 324365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, an equally-sized partition for Windows
< 1320866224 336353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has /boot and /.
< 1320866230 635150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the repartitioner on the Ubuntu installer wouldn't shrink the Windows partition to less than half its original size
< 1320866234 605408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and swap of course
< 1320866236 625598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I haven't bothered to investigate further as I don't anticipate arguing with Apple to be productive, but I suspect they have a very bad definition of "fault"
< 1320866238 319213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should use it for local backups, or something
< 1320866243 526896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't been bothered to figure out how to mount it
< 1320866256 866877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for statutary warranty, it's not their definition that matters, but the legal one
< 1320866259 135661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it does suck; I guess I might fix it some day if I have some free cash
< 1320866265 222258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this machine works fine for now, though
< 1320866269 379423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the computer you're currently using have working number keys?
< 1320866272 672395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see what ais523 said
< 1320866276 688744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but I'd have to convince them that they have to agree with my definition
< 1320866284 455651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds like an awful lot of trouble
< 1320866288 716409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it does :)
< 1320866293 617421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: talk to your lawyer ;P
< 1320866299 595735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I doubt you have one)
< 1320866306 213199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what went wrong with the old one, apart from the digits on the keyboard?
< 1320866311 684067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I had a lawyer, I'd probably have 500 pounds spare :P
< 1320866326 510654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it turned off and didn't turn back on again
< 1320866355 827386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK
< 1320866359 213231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no obvious cause?
< 1320866371 399111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320866387 411974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happened like a week ago, btw, I just forgot to say anything :P
< 1320866391 53639 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: to Gregor's topic change
< 1320866418 392862 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I SUSPECT YOUR .txt LOGS DON'T INCLUDE TOPIC CHANGES
< 1320866509 155317 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I noticed that >_>
< 1320866632 297624 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i also suspect they don't include +t mode changes :P
< 1320866643 444559 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They don't include mode changes at all.
< 1320866825 710755 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for freenode's stupid idea that there should be a way to avoid getting logged, i'd have liked to point out that a channel should BLOODY INCLUDE EVERYTHING PEOPLE ON THE CHANNEL SEE
< 1320866836 851145 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*channel log
< 1320866846 202003 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BLOODY WELL
< 1320866849 593639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-11-09-raw.txt
< 1320866854 767408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or,
< 1320866856 420995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glogbot_help
< 1320866860 158705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/stuff/logbothg/
< 1320866865 473383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Gregor accepts patches.
< 1320866875 464704 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm fixing it right now :P
< 1320866876 961931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I'm pretty sure glogbot doesn't respect the idiotic "no-logging" thing.
< 1320866877 948334 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's half-fixed already.
< 1320866893 10983 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1320866893 671302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the no-logging thing?
< 1320866915 435536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if not for freenode's stupid idea that there should be a way to avoid getting logged
< 1320866952 477418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : if not for freenode's stupid idea that there should be a way to avoid getting logged, i'd have liked to point out that a channel should BLOODY INCLUDE EVERYTHING PEOPLE ON THE CHANNEL SEE <-- err? avoid getting logged?
< 1320866960 147162 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think i saw it in a faq somewhere
< 1320866971 685480 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in the server intro message, though
< 1320866984 270558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Freenode doesn't like channels to be logged without warning the users of the channel (e.g. in the topic)
< 1320866993 215189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not it
< 1320866997 14669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were implying there was some way to send a message-to-channel that wasn't logged
< 1320867001 1271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is
< 1320867005 731299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1320867016 680822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather there's meant to be
< 1320867022 776616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats stupid
< 1320867028 248667 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if there is one which _both_ our log bots simultaneously abide by :P
< 1320867041 168787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither of our log bots fail to log anything
< 1320867041 611123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1320867045 238937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from clog which is just incomplete
< 1320867062 571118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Be sure to provide a way for users to make comments without logging, --" -- freenode philosophy: channel guidelines.
< 1320867070 56475 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I'm incompetent :P
< 1320867080 612273 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's 2/3rds fixed (adding topics to log)
< 1320867094 327810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that is really simple actually. Tell them to turn off local logging. Then they can make a comment while not logging.
< 1320867101 297913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a badly worded statement
< 1320867108 446674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you're considering publishing channel logs, think it through. The freenode network is an interactive environment. Even on public channels, most users don't weigh their comments with the idea that they'll be enshrined in perpetuity. For that reason, few participants publish logs.
< 1320867108 501200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're publishing logs on an ongoing basis, your channel topic should reflect that fact. Be sure to provide a way for users to make comments without logging, and get permission from the channel owners before you start. If you're thinking of "anonymizing" your logs (removing information that identifies the specific users), be aware that it's difficult to do it well—replies and general context often
< 1320867108 501336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : provide identifying information which is hard to filter.
< 1320867108 998890 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the context of publishing logs.
< 1320867109 840649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want to publish a single conversation, be careful to get permission from each participant. Provide as much context as you can. Avoid the temptation to publish or distribute logs without permission in order to portray someone in a bad light. The reputation you save will most likely be your own."
< 1320867144 474118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should put on your special op hat and tap my head three times and designate me the Official Catalyst.
< 1320867147 43202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how it works, right?
< 1320867162 186872 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your way to make comments without logging is to go to #esoteric-unlogged .
< 1320867170 805547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relaxed, open-minded, responsible, unobtrusive, realistic, careful, attentive, minimalist, courteous, cooperative, someone with an internal locus of control, and a user...
< 1320867172 962003 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the catalyst stuff has something to do with chemistry, but that's all I know.
< 1320867173 908441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am all these things!
< 1320867173 963679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :)
< 1320867177 804027 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an added bonus, you may choose to opt out of hearing unlogged messages by simply not joining #esoteric-unlogged .
< 1320867188 225406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric-unlogged/
< 1320867193 31108 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nooooooose
< 1320867206 992806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen
< 1320867209 58562 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope this comment was not logged.
< 1320867211 833163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invited glogbot to it. :P
< 1320867226 792591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid bot that does that
< 1320867237 293063 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: X-D
< 1320867240 612928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does what?
< 1320867247 880079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: joins any invites it gets
< 1320867251 871699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a logbot.
< 1320867272 803606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why send a command for "start logging" when you could just use an existing IRC mechanism...
< 1320867278 759451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Bonus: /invite requires op privileges.
< 1320867283 854938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So glogbot can avoid authenticating that.
< 1320867300 864558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, but surely only the owner of the bot should be able to add new channels
< 1320867305 4409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why
< 1320867316 607522 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a public-access logbot, I shouldn't need to be bothered to add new channels.
< 1320867317 480101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well lets invite it into all high volume channels then :D
< 1320867326 934204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We're not ops on those channels, you moron.
< 1320867328 390381 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Good luck getting ops on all of them.
< 1320867339 63944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true, but do you need that if the channel is not +i?
< 1320867342 237074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you do
< 1320867358 596093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* #ubuntu :You're not a channel operator
< 1320867358 988008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Channel #ubuntu modes: +CLcntjf 5:10 #ubuntu-unregged
< 1320867374 766751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1320867376 336019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+i is just restricting joins.
< 1320867390 78305 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That /invite policy is a Freenode thing.
< 1320867393 630770 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, glogbot is a Freenode bot :)
< 1320867406 141802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pretty sure invites don't work like that on a standard ircd
< 1320867411 89169 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG HOW DO I KEEP SCREWING THIS UP
< 1320867413 226569 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a chanserv access flag to enable inviting.
< 1320867415 483216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like there's any such thing as a standard ircd.
< 1320867425 499604 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRCnet ircd is the standard ircd. :p
< 1320867425 766162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't that /cs invite
< 1320867429 88963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than /invite
< 1320867440 538787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, common ircd. As in how it is done on the other big networks
< 1320867463 47507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Could be; I suppose it would make sense that way.
< 1320867481 647158 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY. After only twelve attempts, the logbot now has topic changes.
< 1320867488 928420 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to add mode changes.
< 1320867783 904426 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1320867819 105425 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i just need to ironically ban Gregor for abusing topic changes
< 1320867847 707938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ban ais523 instead, he abused mode changes :'(
< 1320867854 693021 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVIL
< 1320867868 678639 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is Not Your Average Network chat channel! | #esoteric trying to enforce topic despotism: But how will this affect our children's fitness? That and more at 11 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1320867892 668618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I +t'd the channel in order to stop the topic change abuse
< 1320867896 760126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't call that mode change abuse at all
< 1320867908 293929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as it was only intended to be temporary, and was in fact changed back after a few minutes
< 1320867914 630680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, Not Your Average Network
< 1320867916 315449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got it >_<
< 1320867919 734241 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bahahahaha
< 1320867925 571855 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: should i ban ais523 for not understanding jokes, instead?
< 1320867942 192088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I got it right away
< 1320867948 70547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thought it was an amusing compromise
< 1320867953 189639 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, topic/mode logging is now perfection.
< 1320867959 793044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be better without the caps, I guess
< 1320867962 541453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yse.
< 1320867964 3564 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320867964 163128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320867999 896022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unmtl Cont r a
< 1320868000 34418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> r) -> r
< 1320868014 652787 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads, so contra
< 1320868023 546069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r. (((m a -> m a) -> m a) -> r) -> r
< 1320868024 687360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help.
< 1320868035 682197 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wat
< 1320868051 795807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was trying to figure out what a coroutine monad looks like because I'm really bored :P
< 1320868056 859829 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unmtl ContT r t a
< 1320868057 124488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> t r) -> t r
< 1320868063 900079 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1320868066 451772 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unmtl ContT r m a
< 1320868066 716204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with fork :: CoroT m a -> CoroT m (), yield :: CoroT m ())
< 1320868066 768869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> m r) -> m r
< 1320868084 526890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing boring like StateT [CoroT m ()] m ofc
< 1320868130 833837 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just put zzo38 on it
< 1320868136 988158 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away
< 1320868138 79432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ;___;
< 1320868148 444795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but yeah, I started off with
< 1320868151 777462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(m a -> m a) -> m a
< 1320868166 790275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the argument is a sort of yield
< 1320868168 866610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass it a continuation
< 1320868178 223327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it context-switches to every other thread then calls the continuation you gave it once that's done
< 1320868178 758955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1320868180 682651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work :'(
< 1320868183 199891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't write fork
< 1320868218 399067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw did you see Simon Marlow breaking reddiquette :P
< 1320868253 722432 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, today?
< 1320868280 897923 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in r/haskell?
< 1320868288 360771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320868326 636024 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i haven't gotten around to reddit yet.  also, laundry -->
< 1320868461 832483 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I here?
< 1320868506 352504 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Twould seem not...
< 1320868508 985531 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320868521 812554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320868527 119343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no
< 1320868535 277190 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320868892 333880 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why is glogbot not the most wildly popular logbot ever made?
< 1320868914 213159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz it doesn't do mode changes.
< 1320868925 732493 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it does now!
< 1320868936 547261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it do nick changes?
< 1320868949 812339 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup
< 1320868956 84628 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think X-P )
< 1320868960 333122 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, yes, it does)
< 1320868962 837159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reassuring!
< 1320868975 772352 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my memory is distinct from glogbot's quality >_>
< 1320869044 824571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed that before you said it did :P
< 1320869051 672966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR something like quits were broken a while ago.
< 1320869214 58734 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were only very partially broken.
< 1320869230 202860 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was join->nick->quit that it didn't detect properly.
< 1320869238 328847 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It detected the join and the nick, but not the quit.
< 1320869671 713738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I RETRUN
< 1320869710 152014 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how retro
< 1320869722 385239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, now even Adobe don't use Flash
< 1320869754 245364 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320869931 183679 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320869937 661746 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320870172 43849 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320870204 447009 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swede ho!
< 1320870244 623979 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1320870254 47043 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1320870719 158041 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320870827 104773 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swo!
< 1320870937 199140 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121.74.65.236 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320870937 508713 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121.74.65.236 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320870937 561237 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320871061 996720 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW I remember why I hate PulseAudio so much.
< 1320871067 266581 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE IT FRIGGIN SUCKS
< 1320871104 411402 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is mplayer stuttery and terrible through pulseaudio? And why is it that if I just have pulseaudio INSTALLED, anything that wants it will start it automatically without asking me? >_<
< 1320871119 805371 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how many programs do you hate for being too perfect?
< 1320871153 258436 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: stop complaining and just uninstall pulseaudio then
< 1320871164 427480 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I need it for remote audio >_<
< 1320871177 224050 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So I have to install it when I want remote audio, then uninstall it when I don't :P
< 1320871195 876457 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you're already good at sandboxing...
< 1320871208 365860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just use JACK :P
< 1320871215 900378 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: JACK is SO FRIGGIN' DIFFICULT.
< 1320871222 628802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Google a friggin' tutorial :P
< 1320871227 404835 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did! It didn't work!
< 1320871234 585833 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor doesn't know jack shit
< 1320871244 97091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Gregor's a fucking moron
< 1320871244 777871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320871321 445548 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's it, I'm BANNING YOU ... from the logs ... or something.
< 1320871337 585514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320871354 315205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs without elliott, so useful
< 1320871376 35865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might get a whole percent of the messages.
< 1320871633 239472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you know: Enum and Bounded are hard to use
< 1320871670 310485 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha?
< 1320871719 692664 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [minBound..maxBound] :: String
< 1320871720 583254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "\NUL\SOH\STX\ETX\EOT\ENQ\ACK\a\b\t\n\v\f\r\SO\SI\DLE\DC1\DC2\DC3\DC4\NAK\S...
< 1320871751 943454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boundedEnumElems :: (Enum a, Bounded a, Eq a) => Elems a
< 1320871751 996353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boundedEnumElems = go minBound maxBound
< 1320871751 996516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where go m n
< 1320871751 996622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | m == n    = Leaf m
< 1320871751 996728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | otherwise = Branch (go m mn) (go (succ mn) n)
< 1320871752 756274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          where mn = pred . toEnum $ nv + ((nv - mv) `div` 2)
< 1320871754 759346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                mv = fromEnum m
< 1320871756 710475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                nv = fromEnum n
< 1320871758 779670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't wooooork :P
< 1320871776 748198 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [minBound,'Ø'..maxBound] :: String
< 1320871777 519743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "\NUL\216\432\648\864\1080\1296\1512\1728\1944\2160\2376\2592\2808\3024\324...
< 1320871890 307879 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not?
< 1320871918 435201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> boundedEnumElems :: Elems Bool
< 1320871918 526721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Branch (Leaf False) (Leaf True)
< 1320871918 526896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> boundedEnumElems :: Elems Test
< 1320871918 527003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Branch *** Exception: toEnum{Test}: tag (4) is outside of enumeration's range (0,3)
< 1320871923 92178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where Test is A | B | C | D
< 1320871970 898240 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i guess the problem is if mn == maxBound?
< 1320871986 935958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320871993 949522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could like compare mn to see if it's maxbound but uhhh
< 1320871996 667482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/uhhh/ugggh/
< 1320872005 802779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually no
< 1320872005 935618 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need Ord
< 1320872015 361820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because the exception is on the first branch
< 1320872020 28429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has no succ
< 1320872025 239043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I don't, I can just use fromEnum >:)
< 1320872075 64683 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need Eq either, if you use fromEnum
< 1320872076 84420 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1320872087 171295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True
< 1320872111 934883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking it might just be easier to do it with a -> [Bool]
< 1320872132 174285 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: itym where mn = pred . toEnum $ mv + ((nv - mv) `div` 2)
< 1320872145 491541 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.purdue.edu/IMPACTEARTH
< 1320872146 154037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1320872150 213274 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait this is from Purdue?
< 1320872155 142668 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the chickens?
< 1320872159 872723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that produces an infinite tree for Test :P
< 1320872179 691302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Help I don't want to impact?
< 1320872189 159414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like Sburb but with a crappy loading screen.
< 1320872202 690463 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh i guess if they're 1 apart, it may fail?
< 1320872209 820100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: auugh why is this ugly
< 1320872222 388221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: OMG CAN I IMPACT EARTH WITH A GIGANTIC MASSIVE ASTEROID
< 1320872226 920517 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nv + ((nv - mv) `div` 2) is definitely wrong, anyway
< 1320872234 864617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: X-D One of the options for diameter is "Humpback Whale".
< 1320872300 405873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: :-( I was hoping I could watch it slam in.
< 1320872303 621237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOOOORIIIIIIING
< 1320872359 772413 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: should the pred . be there?
< 1320872368 7363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: istr it failed even more without it :) i can ermove it
< 1320872387 631876 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320872391 117192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Earth is completely disrupted by the impact and its debris forms a new asteroid belt orbiting the sun between Venus and Mars.
< 1320872391 170086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 percent of the Earth is melted
< 1320872391 170293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the direction and location the collision, the impact may totally change the Earth's rotation period and the tilt of its axis.
< 1320872391 170403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the direction and location of impact, the collision may cause a change in the length of the day of up to 38500000000000 hours.
< 1320872392 564570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The impact shifts the Earth's orbit totally."
< 1320872396 69897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: "Day change: not significant"
< 1320872404 173840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO not significant.
< 1320872415 133650 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Day changed to no-such-notion :P
< 1320872429 364194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's just 38500000000024 hours long now.
< 1320872457 500307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Transient Crater Depth: 2560000000 km ( = 1590000000 miles )"
< 1320872466 879585 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try  where mn = toEnum $ mv + ((nv - mv) `div` 2)
< 1320872481 387482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, it works :P
< 1320872504 764527 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :)
< 1320872641 384513 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover: X-D One of the options for diameter is "Humpback Whale". <-- what about bowl of petunias?
< 1320872673 584140 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually then it should be sperm whale, i think
< 1320872701 529468 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts putting in ridiculous parameters.
< 1320872707 193536 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ball of iron the size of Jupiter ...
< 1320872712 775692 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. a black hole)
< 1320872725 789419 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hardly hitting the Earth then, is it?
< 1320872728 456306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pffft, I put like 1000000000 in all the fields :P
< 1320872732 207200 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hmm.
< 1320872739 451299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just basically says "There is no more Earth!"
< 1320872763 719641 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that actually be a black hole...
< 1320872769 984781 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jupiter's 70000km in radius.
< 1320872800 516505 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Earth is completely disrupted by the impact and its debris forms a new asteroid belt orbiting the sun between Venus and Mars." yay
< 1320872817 550697 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Depending on the direction and location of impact, the collision may cause a change in the length of the day of up to 23.8 hours." lol
< 1320872893 39068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320872960 482912 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WA is misbehaving when I try to find the Schwarzschild radius of a ball of iron the size of Jupiter.
< 1320873009 94160 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably detecting that you are constructing a weapon of mass destruction
< 1320873017 674682 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you already know the size, what do you need the schwarzschild radius for?
< 1320873034 489593 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: to check if it would collapse into a black hole, duh
< 1320873036 155664 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 16.8m; it's not a black hole.
< 1320873060 251074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds unlikely then
< 1320873092 309596 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would probably collapse to some higher density than iron on earth :P
< 1320873099 127620 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily; it could still collapse.
< 1320873158 426736 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's around five times the Chandrasekhar limit, so it would have to be a neutron star at least.
< 1320873167 494806 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but what is the total mass of this, is it more than a minimum size stellar black hole?
< 1320873174 933795 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320873211 461895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: What's the biggest ball of iron we can do? I want one.
< 1320873221 657068 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is the range of possible neutron star masses...
< 1320873222 616076 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how you define 'iron'.
< 1320873250 494560 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is electron-degenerate iron counted? Then you can have anything up to the Chandrasekhar limit.
< 1320873268 112631 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwaitwait.
< 1320873268 884786 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh.
< 1320873273 312769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: No I want something that looks like iron ok.
< 1320873276 905865 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mistook grams for kilograms.
< 1320873279 736599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-C
< 1320873280 524763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320873293 929408 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In general, compact stars of less than 1.44 solar masses – the Chandrasekhar limit – are white dwarfs, and above 2 to 3 solar masses (the Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit), a quark star might be created; however, this is uncertain. Gravitational collapse will usually occur on any compact star between 10 and 25 solar masses and produce a black hole."
< 1320873300 639990 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's around a fiftieth of the Chandrasekhar limit, so it'd be a white dwarf.
< 1320873309 422689 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... nearly wrote "white dorf".
< 1320873312 68379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320873323 358122 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: oh.
< 1320873344 846703 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it might even just be a ball of iron.
< 1320873345 998783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: So what's the biggest non-vertically-challenged ball of iron
< 1320873374 388818 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure; I'm not good with degeneracy pressures.
< 1320873390 943289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: OK well what's the biggest ball of iron you can think of that you're sure is of full stature.
< 1320873410 115662 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_degeneracy_pressure
< 1320873413 255633 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds... backwards
< 1320873414 22899 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that settles it!
< 1320873427 350172 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not really, stuff gets smaller as it gets heavier.
< 1320873430 499385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEEEEE
< 1320873461 85724 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\varrho? What the hell?
< 1320873503 691923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: THERE ARE FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS
< 1320873541 703426 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bang that into WA after s/m_e/mass of electron/, s/m_p/mass of proton/, s/rho/density of iron/, s/mu_e/1/
< 1320873554 531959 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and s/h/Planck's constant/
< 1320873577 58522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I don't waaant toooo, mostly because Wolfram Alpha can't answer my follow-up question.
< 1320873598 581892 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I can answer it with the answer to the previous.
< 1320873628 421691 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'd need another calculation, but that's just standard fluid pressure AFAIK.
< 1320873639 20898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Do you know what the next question is.
< 1320873643 509170 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320873688 232798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320873721 728340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28planck%27s+constant+%5E+2%29%2F%2820*mass+of+electron*%28mass+of+proton%29%5E%285%2F3%29%29*%283%2Fpi%29%5E%282%2F3%29*%28density+of+iron%29%5E%285%2F3%29 It fucked it up slightly I think, but I can't figure out how to fix it.
< 1320873771 935855 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A planet such as Jupiter has about the largest volume possible for a cold mass.[2] Add mass to Jupiter and the planet's volume, somewhat counter-intuitively, becomes smaller."
< 1320873778 384234 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah
< 1320873799 432248 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_star
< 1320873832 492478 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, mu_e is the suspicious bit.
< 1320873834 372458 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rather limited subset of Minecraft could be considered a Linear Bounded Automaton
< 1320873846 832717 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say rather limited.
< 1320873862 635591 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Turing-Complete enough for Wolfram to say it would be
< 1320873863 185887 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's theoretically possible to build a TM, I think.
< 1320873874 398973 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been done, I think
< 1320873879 635078 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given procedurally-generated terrain
< 1320873889 67018 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *circuitry.
< 1320873902 544681 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is to stick the player in a minecart and use them to load the tape.
< 1320873906 964438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Also its parenthesisation.
< 1320873921 715235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think 20(m_e m_p)^5/3 is right.
< 1320873965 632364 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28planck%27s+constant+^+2%29%2F%2820*mass+of+electron*%28%28mass+of+proton%29^%285%2F3%29%29%29*%283%2Fpi%29^%282%2F3%29*%28density+of+iron%29^%285%2F3%29
< 1320873982 693940 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/ElectronDegeneracyPressure.html
< 1320874022 181115 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, thank, you are a helpful person.
< 1320874048 457752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thank, you are a helpful person.
< 1320874061 314795 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Finns are helpful, albeit grossly overpopulated (cf. 'Finland').
< 1320874063 990629 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1320874092 75163 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fizzie is helpful, and oko is helpful in an oko way.)
< 1320874127 115386 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two towns with the most esolangers are Helsinki and Hexham.
< 1320874139 370920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should get twinned or something.
< 1320874146 315543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: So do you know the answer now.
< 1320874148 96413 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko's not from Helsinki.
< 1320874151 557666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I ask
< 1320874152 505327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my
< 1320874154 420348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow up question
< 1320874164 188920 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet.
< 1320874188 385011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cry
< 1320874215 771538 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, that makes EVEN MORE PEOPLE FROM HEXHAM RELATIVELY
< 1320874220 221571 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on.
< 1320874235 841685 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anybody other than Phantom__Hoover from the Edinburgh area on this channel?
< 1320874250 129367 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320874251 601101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320874255 824999 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1320874255 877496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least nobody who talks
< 1320874266 237162 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Gregoria?
< 1320874283 393871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gergoria
< 1320874304 247698 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that working out the mass from that pressure is non-trivial.
< 1320874307 911115 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Follow-up anyway.
< 1320874314 152790 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :West Lafayette, Indiana
< 1320874337 707252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: What would happen if we flung it at the Earth.
< 1320874350 987489 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have answered that anyway!
< 1320874358 373828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT MY FAULT YOU GOT ME TO TYPE IN EQUATIONS
< 1320874388 360686 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The answer is 'sploosh'.)
< 1320874399 283962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's
< 1320874402 496620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a satisfactory answer Phantom__Hoover
< 1320874414 404868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: OK wait what if we just sort of glided it to the earth.
< 1320874421 816934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At, like, 1 m/s.
< 1320874431 974766 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sploosh.
< 1320874441 778649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover you are so bad.
< 1320874465 673250 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At those scales, it's basically the same as throwing blobs of water at each other in zero gravity (im good analgogy).
< 1320874512 472469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: OK but how close would it have to get before fun started happening on Earth (assuming the 1 m/s thing).
< 1320874542 405769 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite far.
< 1320874563 118465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Duuude you suuuuck.
< 1320874574 641136 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was interpreting that sploosh as more the kind of insect on a windshield thing.
< 1320874584 327282 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where earth, in this case, is the insect.
< 1320874608 441964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the ball of iron's windscreen wipers smudge us.
< 1320874614 31238 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Helsinki and Hexham... BOTH BEGIN WITH 'H'
< 1320874621 672917 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anyone from the Hague here?
< 1320874624 325054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay now I'm imagining a perfectly spherical ball of iron just sort of gliding through the heavens with enormous windscreen wipers.
< 1320874626 611092 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexsinki.
< 1320874642 190209 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hondtreim here
< 1320874650 92994 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it have windscreen wipers if it's perfectly spherical?
< 1320874662 277430 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: advanced alien technology.
< 1320874681 297493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: They're just regular car windscreen wipers but curved.
< 1320874684 488094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: actually, a perfect sphere is reasonably easy to windscreen-wipe
< 1320874694 127850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only wipe the front bit.
< 1320874698 354474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The bit that's going forwards.)
< 1320874699 388452 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they interfere with the sphericality.
< 1320874706 93530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: They aren't part of the sphere.
< 1320874707 849585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just attached.
< 1320874723 321242 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1320874724 631704 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1320874730 216584 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnets
< 1320874731 370678 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: advanced alien technology.
< 1320874737 677582 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Magnets don't count; they'd cause a distortion in the sphere.)
< 1320874740 581504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I don't know, how are they attached to cars?
< 1320874746 838079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION genius.
< 1320874757 662913 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, cars aren't perfectly spherical.
< 1320874761 610691 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: advanced alien technology.
< 1320874767 299652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Okay, now I'm laughing.
< 1320874777 844282 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(toyota is secretly grey operated)
< 1320874786 691224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: OK it's perfectly spherical apart from a little indent where the wipers are attached, happy?
< 1320874796 60892 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  elliott, cars aren't perfectly spherical.
< 1320874798 154832 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :715)  elliott, cars aren't perfectly spherical.
< 1320874809 779856 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes.
< 1320874812 80461 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sticky glue?
< 1320874814 470815 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But SCIENCE isn't.
< 1320874826 968709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to non-sticky glue
< 1320874834 843561 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he'd set fire to that insect food in chemistry today just before the fire alarm went off.
< 1320874840 856683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Why amn't science hapey.
< 1320874853 522873 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the opportunity for the best moment of my life.
< 1320874859 547962 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because gramer
< 1320874860 607599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320874867 901920 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, becuase is 21th sentry.
< 1320874869 463040 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sory, speeling
< 1320874872 525781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: :(
< 1320874882 883352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *becuase
< 1320874903 141204 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you didnt misple why
< 1320874945 709626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I misspelled wyh just fine.
< 1320875039 842704 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O QUAY
< 1320875057 911681 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quay is pronounced similar to "key".
< 1320875078 203295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oak quay
< 1320875111 196512 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i no i couldnt fine any homonyms of kay
< 1320875144 620074 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :homofones
< 1320875152 735301 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiht a "ph"
< 1320875167 719175 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :homofun, o qi
< 1320875171 115520 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O god, r we goan to degenerate in2 thi style of Bascule the Teller?
< 1320875177 647850 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuo probly no tihs arleayd
< 1320875186 781119 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO
< 1320875205 320238 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoos bascule the teller
< 1320875215 282719 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The
< 1320875227 634380 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The A-level pass rate is 97.8%.
< 1320875230 694143 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even.
< 1320875243 980549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grade boosting
< 1320875250 442722 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that.
< 1320875251 80156 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o dat buk
< 1320875257 825787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : O god, r we goan to degenerate in2 thi style of Bascule the Teller?
< 1320875259 262135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gone wild.
< 1320875278 225956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Turns out my mind has been permanently warped by "i"s close to 2s.
< 1320875282 787162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck thii2 2hiit.
< 1320875300 618820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Although it dissonantly reacted by my zzo38 detector triggering on "O".
< 1320875301 738639 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2ollux the teller
< 1320875311 183556 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i2 dat 2o
< 1320875320 243812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YUO'RE DOING IT WRONEGE ;____;
< 1320875329 336475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cry
< 1320875355 823250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION i22e2pon2ible
< 1320875366 856155 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issessponsible.
< 1320875377 506610 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1320875383 189447 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Issesponsible.
< 1320875386 153289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have to duplicate your "i"s ok ;__; doing otherwise is issesponsible
< 1320875409 957427 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iif u 2ay 2o
< 1320875428 628215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be really scary if not for the "u".
< 1320875432 15720 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Higher pass rates have climbed in the past too, is confuse.
< 1320875473 71794 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: they probaly wrap wen hiting 100%
< 1320875495 369665 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C57D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320875552 834420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they"
< 1320875587 330777 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pointing out the only correctly-spelled word? :P
< 1320875592 670122 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (But "wrap" is write too!)
< 1320875595 573970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You mean: the only error.
< 1320875598 7436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, damn.
< 1320875605 66174 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE JOKE IN LAST MESSAGE
< 1320875607 449878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAUGH LAUGHABLY
< 1320875610 703097 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_circuit
< 1320875618 990160 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you can make magnetic circuits?
< 1320875631 805381 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: *brain explodes*
< 1320875653 283653 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it's shaping flux lines.
< 1320875703 879246 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320875739 274836 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320875893 786728 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do some more work on Salesman
< 1320875908 84150 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean completely changing all the commands for the fourth time
< 1320875938 893840 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320875977 972145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1320875979 626576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boundedEnumToBits :: (Enum a, Bounded a) => a -> [Bool]
< 1320875979 679232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boundedEnumToBits a = go (fromEnum (minBound `asTypeOf` a)) (fromEnum (maxBound `asTypeOf` a)) (fromEnum a)
< 1320875979 679396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where go :: Int -> Int -> Int -> [Bool]
< 1320875979 679510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        go m n v
< 1320875980 140186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | m == n  = []
< 1320875982 124808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | v <= mn = False : go m mn v
< 1320875984 158777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | otherwise = True : go (succ mn) n v
< 1320875986 71652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          where mn = m + ((n - m) `div` 2)
< 1320875988 91906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help it's ugly :(
< 1320876014 184609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewrite it in C.
< 1320876019 539124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there any project whose name starts "ya" as an acronym/initialism/abbreviation for "yet another", but is the first project doing what it does?
< 1320876021 994771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol
< 1320876043 50601 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: X-D
< 1320876049 637615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yapwnsyaaaiafyabitfpdwid
< 1320876067 628138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ = yapos
< 1320876091 216815 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaa
< 1320876097 641501 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yamlpopl -> Yet Another My-Little-Pony-Oriented Programming Language
< 1320876150 289629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Those were funny >:(
< 1320876173 500816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Salesman implementation must be able to solve the Travelling Salesman problem MULTIPLE TIMES during the course of execution
< 1320876181 716953 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you highlighted me earlier
< 1320876187 85487 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with the rest of the channel
< 1320876188 878234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre: No, you must be mistaken.
< 1320876215 942968 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not
< 1320876218 465015 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a record of it here
< 1320876229 441940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Better ban me.
< 1320876246 844312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you removed the line from the logs yet???
< 1320876268 812962 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ALL THE LINES
< 1320876273 651098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx!
< 1320876291 886591 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :you highlighted me and many other at precisely 12:53 Wednesday November, 09 2011 EST
< 1320876306 706227 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1320876307 132114 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :your Haskell looks ugly :P
< 1320876310 122822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely? So, not another second passed?
< 1320876317 666581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not another femtosecond?
< 1320876321 851356 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :name your goddamn variables properly
< 1320876335 690076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those variables are perfectly well named.
< 1320876336 442984 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnvmnvmnvmnvnvmnvmnvn
< 1320876445 618441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, I was out taking a phone-call
< 1320876466 498149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What are we meant to do when we need someone banned urgently?
< 1320876523 348214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEP
< 1320876535 256080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan "wep" oerjan
< 1320876562 113976 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AN NASHING OF TEITH
< 1320876576 793809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320876577 452578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ban me
< 1320876581 198314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ask #freenode?
< 1320876592 532153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... I'll give it a shot
< 1320876690 888844 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooh, now I'm curious who needs urgent banning.
< 1320876695 642775 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And from where)
< 1320876710 618691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me.
< 1320876711 554485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From here.
< 1320876745 143253 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ida taut itwas obivus
< 1320876768 232947 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1320877420 828425 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, how long until I go to university and get journal access.
< 1320877447 982840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320877634 32525 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I just realised Salesman is gonna have to simulate a basic economy
< 1320877655 567638 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the travelling salesman problem taken to the next level?
< 1320877671 936724 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is getting pretty complicated
< 1320877697 751801 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1320877702 271897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an esolang
< 1320877707 696322 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, really?
< 1320877708 562119 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you ever come up with your version of Brook?
< 1320877709 90202 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1320877735 927081 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With dynamic graph-changing
< 1320877773 55708 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a complete graph which is by default Cartesian
< 1320877812 811070 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to change arc weights, but only by doubling them or halving them (may change that)
< 1320877990 473015 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing is, in Salesman, the salesman actually buys and sells things
< 1320877990 994528 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have multiple commodities
< 1320878027 590399 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is going to be so damn complicated
< 1320878176 828066 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se QUIT :Quit: Lmnar
< 1320878180 184295 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft has made me view all trees as ridiculously slender.
< 1320878211 639275 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, now you got me thinking about Slender Man
< 1320878275 881864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, goodnight
< 1320878286 980216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: XD
< 1320878288 55636 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1320878305 163037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I need to sleep, night →
< 1320878312 279947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Minecraft has made me view all trees as ridiculously slender.
< 1320878314 727168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :716)  Minecraft has made me view all trees as ridiculously slender.
< 1320878417 357571 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320878489 197714 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320878489 578432 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320878489 631310 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320878547 317579 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320879613 405969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE COURT: You don't want to get me started on this. You big companies do not own the U.S. District Court. So, yes, you can have your protective orders, but when it comes to a public hearing, I'm not going to have to resort to Morse Code to understand what you are trying to tell me.
< 1320879617 361428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a neat putdown
< 1320880205 348331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320880345 563358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's from Oracle vs. Google, against an Oracle lawyer)
< 1320880376 454764 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that judge is pretty awesome
< 1320880379 170295 :Rod56!~bombeiro@201-23-160-66.gprs.claro.net.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320880418 498939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling from reading the rest of the trial that the judge thinks both sides are bullshitting him
< 1320880425 910779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that he is quite probably correct
< 1320880428 340155 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320880471 40005 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, mplayer isn't working.
< 1320880615 276012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, you mentioning that made me look at groklaw for the first time in years, which lead to me finding out that the original editor retired from it
< 1320880623 30170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird, feels like a universal constant changing
< 1320880634 834332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you missed PJ retiring? wow
< 1320880643 73267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't read Groklaw :)
< 1320880645 815395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :she still turns up now and again, especially if SCO are doing things
< 1320880662 217823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's mostly written by Mark, who not only claims to be a lawyer, but obviously /is/ one from the way he talks
< 1320880690 186960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320880761 266361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the current state of SCO, btw?
< 1320880774 59080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they sold pretty much everything they had to various shady companies
< 1320880785 273429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tried to resume their litigation against IBM, believe it or not
< 1320880788 709363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D
< 1320880794 178655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work?
< 1320880795 668770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tried to not resume IBM's counter-litigation against them at the same time
< 1320880804 421357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1320880811 217132 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320880812 548319 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320880816 252554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they haven't heard back from the judge yet, who is probably still laughing
< 1320880824 346359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SCO's lawyers were paid upfront or something, right?
< 1320880828 535356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR something like that
< 1320880836 901409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they were
< 1320880840 517759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are probably regretting that
< 1320880841 840453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320880868 215121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only reason they haven't just defaulted is to prove to other potential customers that if they're hired for something, they'll go through with it no matter how stupid it is
< 1320880874 682247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, they renamed themselves!
< 1320880879 941152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, SCO?
< 1320880882 669504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320880887 90704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1320880889 735031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to... TSG Group, Inc.... so they're The SCO Group Group, Inc.
< 1320880891 653294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group
< 1320880898 570721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wow, I forgot about that
< 1320880907 216813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Santa Cruz Operation Group Group, Incorporated
< 1320880923 952938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Operations
< 1320880942 402749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think so? at least Wikipedia says it's Operation
< 1320880948 751013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1320880954 930006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory is shaky
< 1320880956 981303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still laughing too
< 1320880960 89408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also: Caldera OpenLinux and The Santa Cruz Operation
< 1320880960 205069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[edit]The Santa Cruz Operation (SCO)
< 1320880982 568174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SCO website now gives details of a new appeal against Novell, Inc, dated September 9, 2010 and presumably lodged with the United States Court of Appeals.
< 1320880991 397766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's more info below
< 1320880997 843445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO filed amendments to their certificates of incorporation on 15 April 2011. The SCO Group, Inc. was renamed TSG Group, Inc., and SCO Operations, Inc. became TSG Operations, Inc.[4]
< 1320880998 34368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 30 August 2011, the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit affirmed SCO's loss to Novell in the second jury/bench trial.[70] SCO's appellate brief had argued that there were evidentiary errors and other issues at trial. The affirmed verdict held that Novell did not transfer the UNIX copyrights to SCO in the amended asset purchase agreement, and that Novell has the right to waive certai
< 1320880998 86893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n alleged license violations.
< 1320881003 374332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it's over?
< 1320881121 348419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SCO can theoretically appeal to the supreme court, but they haven't tried
< 1320881288 916264 :Rod56!~bombeiro@201-23-160-66.gprs.claro.net.br PART :#esoteric
< 1320881364 718583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye Rod56
< 1320881497 759351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this feels like interproject limbo :/
< 1320881518 638692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does?
< 1320881526 474070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this not coding anything :)
< 1320881544 487557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have plenty of projects
< 1320881547 8940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitten, for instance
< 1320881558 45231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320881571 659359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, they're swapped out to disk
< 1320881575 213733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the scheduler isn't looking at them
< 1320881602 772683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the scheduler?
< 1320881628 648834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I say yes, will you think that means I have control over it?
< 1320881633 367075 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I uninstalled scheduler long ago and switched to procrastinator
< 1320881639 128521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure
< 1320881661 477260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1320881663 13205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh /no/
< 1320881669 113520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh /NO/
< 1320881677 252451 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: my scheduler did that all by itself.
< 1320881677 485482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've figured out what's happening
< 1320881683 794107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with what?
< 1320881689 445659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my scheduler is swapping out all currently active processes
< 1320881698 124814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the next one it'll switch to
< 1320881700 272972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is @
< 1320881726 966303 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1320881735 909945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is @ as disastrous as Feather?
< 1320881746 823977 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought feather too
< 1320881750 533162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't /know/, it's only ever run as a background task
< 1320881754 844826 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the black holes of vaporware
< 1320881785 346211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm, someone give me something really interesting yet surprisingly easy to do, it's the only thing that can stop this
< 1320881803 372811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write an optimizing parser for C
< 1320881813 702667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an /optimising/ parser?
< 1320881815 672840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320881836 820077 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a parser that optimizes itself?
< 1320881839 295193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: go on :)
< 1320881840 200810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could at least do constant-folding in the parse
< 1320881851 196030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly even dead code elimination
< 1320881877 546951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1320881883 94896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound fun _or_ easy :)
< 1320881897 47275 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ time
< 1320881901 420163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm
< 1320881908 110070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different language, then
< 1320881971 645883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :project "try and get interested in working on my current projects first": failed
< 1320881979 277174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something has gone horribly wrong :(
< 1320882009 162176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm… write a Scheme impl in JS
< 1320882022 663664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already done that :)
< 1320882035 713896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think writing more JS code would be very bad for my health
< 1320882045 163808 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :js impl in scheme; get them to run each other
< 1320882065 291961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: they would cry
< 1320882074 602782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in harmony
< 1320882081 191377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme because
< 1320882082 871869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :js is horrific
< 1320882084 2037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :js because
< 1320882086 837377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can never truly be scheme
< 1320882101 978408 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScheme
< 1320882109 925715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeme
< 1320882147 840013 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: left
< 1320882164 280695 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write an optimizing parser for ... malbolge.
< 1320882183 671534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks: now i just want to give up on computing altogether
< 1320882196 427215 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME GO TOO FAR
< 1320882220 652463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320882224 786255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can think of something
< 1320882227 373234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work
< 1320882239 506757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1320882246 230753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it relies on me having a recent enough copy of it
< 1320882304 571964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-09.txt:19:30:24:  elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/sixth$ make >/dev/null; wc -c sixth.o
< 1320882304 686948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-09.txt:19:30:24:  75 sixth.o
< 1320882304 740104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-09.txt:21:31:02:  81 sixth.o
< 1320882305 967581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a start
< 1320882308 755444 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders if feather supports concurrency
< 1320882333 262218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't see why not
< 1320882337 124770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably lock-step
< 1320882357 679063 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i meant something _not_ lock-step
< 1320882395 972076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-03.txt:01:51:37:  also, I still have the code for that boot sector Forth...
< 1320882396 86234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :work with me here :'(
< 1320882417 916526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-12.txt:09:01:17:  I think si/di are free, it's just a boot sector. But it's tiny, so I don't really care that much :P
< 1320882418 111086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht
< 1320882434 951175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... my graphics card has an audio card.
< 1320882437 235038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think race-conditiony-concurrency is possible
< 1320882439 471167 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My graphics card ... has an audio card.
< 1320882449 455334 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GRAPHICS CARD HAS AN AUDIO CARD *brain explodes*
< 1320882449 993858 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are some weird animals http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/11/09/nyheter/utenriks/romfart/astrobiologi/dyrenesnyheter/18952143/
< 1320882478 383139 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: your what has a what now?
< 1320882490 695268 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: my GRAPHICS CARD has an AUDIO CAAAAAAAARD
< 1320882502 935584 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your audio card has a smell card but you cannot detect it *MWAHAHAHAHA*
< 1320882545 606679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-17.txt:17:19:05:  I think all it does is listen to conversation by the actual elliott and relay back and forth
< 1320882545 659089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1320882553 603061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :context?
< 1320882558 127366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-15.txt:02:44:51:  Some researchers put forth the thesis that monads could help with concurrency. At this point, it looks like their thesis has failed.
< 1320882558 181084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1320882561 224863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i dunno :D
< 1320882588 579287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bears etc. stranded in space
< 1320882595 766686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I never made sprunge pastes in here in 2011-{03,04,09}
< 1320882596 702973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's
< 1320882599 674622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really inconvenient
< 1320882601 677221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1320882602 623292 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe he can get fnarf feedback
< 1320882605 408057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i did :>
< 1320882620 927990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky esoteric]$ grep -ri --color=always 'elliott.*sprunge\.us/' 2011-0{3,4,9}-??.txt | wc -l
< 1320882620 980230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :104
< 1320882622 844369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here goes nothing
< 1320882629 29418 :sllide!~jari@86.94.177.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320882722 983163 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love bears etc.. They are super cute!
< 1320882724 795428 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to microscopic animals to be)
< 1320882727 652214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fhXB ouch
< 1320882745 125684 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think the english name is tardigrade
< 1320882748 888944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320882756 727696 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : I love bears etc.. They are super cute! <-- referring to hairy gay men
< 1320882763 278859 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : (to microscopic animals to be) <-- referring to his sperm
< 1320882789 29875 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, master of interpretation
< 1320882828 454371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you remember news-ham
< 1320882835 378421 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320882839 794555 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeptobot too
< 1320882841 163434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: was the hyphen part of the name?
< 1320882850 810063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to distinguish news-ham from newsham
< 1320882851 48554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why isn't monqy from Hexham? his name sounds like he should be
< 1320882854 252682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, obviously; newsham owned newsham
< 1320882859 524372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: they were different people?
< 1320882859 641165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  also, why isn't monqy from Hexham? his name sounds like he should be
< 1320882861 713611 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :717)  also, why isn't monqy from Hexham? his name sounds like he should be
< 1320882865 192999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: newsham was a person
< 1320882868 390320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :news-ham was my bot
< 1320882871 245675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha
< 1320882872 578160 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :news-ham - any relation to new-sham?
< 1320882873 619389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how confusing
< 1320882877 485859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a _complete_ coincidence, I assure you!
< 1320882884 666511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham just stole the name of the fine news-dispensing ham IRC bot.
< 1320882892 711216 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i be from hexham
< 1320882900 567722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're called monqy
< 1320882904 421309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it pronounced, anyway?
< 1320882909 223995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/GhYf news ham code (sometime before I added non-bbc feed support)
< 1320882909 573731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a hexham thing
< 1320882909 691142 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if you're not from finland you're from hexham
< 1320882913 828049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "monkey", or slightly differently?
< 1320882915 440439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so short :')
< 1320882940 536493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: note that the "you" in olsner's statement applies to you specifically
< 1320882943 65974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to people in general
< 1320882960 928802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, http://sprunge.us/OYVO is one of the latest versions
< 1320882963 998080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what language is that? golfScheme?
< 1320882967 455357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: picolisp
< 1320882985 310345 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generic rule is not that much more complicated though
< 1320882999 771833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang idea: a language that isn't sexp-based, but looks visually the same as Lisp
< 1320883041 688120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly did news-ham do? and why isn't it here atm?
< 1320883050 647723 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't really decided what pronunciations for "monqy" are acceptiable
< 1320883055 166296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/eXiM god, I forgot how lovely this thing is
< 1320883071 286319 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not expecting that
< 1320883071 635006 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was the world's least interesting non-ham-related news bot.
< 1320883078 402914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whenever you pinged it, or said "what are the haps my friends", it'd give you a random recent BBC news topic
< 1320883093 523057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds surprisingly useful for a #esoteric bot
< 1320883098 103289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could also specify various topics which it would filter the result to (basically whatever BBC's feeds had, plus the Onion, plus a few other things) :P
< 1320883099 979578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it had reddit too
< 1320883165 736692 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://warpdrive.se/9473 hilarious
< 1320883251 51890 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320883567 563333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm. oh no.
< 1320883606 523763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i may have
< 1320883607 264922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost
< 1320883607 860864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the
< 1320883608 389365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :code
< 1320883609 505090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1320883616 33480 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320883618 330360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: write on my tombstone "killed by @", please
< 1320883631 200665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't be so hasty; you /might/ survive
< 1320883642 742311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfffft as if
< 1320883667 458290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've ended up wiping the backup with the forth
< 1320883675 308049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll have to find the latest sprunge of it and re-fix that bug
< 1320883840 145526 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320883965 550814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott will survive forever, being ironically saved by a liver transplant from a kurzweil having a tragic accident.
< 1320883988 54218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320884010 986157 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320884745 783632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky esoteric]$ for x in $(grep 'elliott>.*http://sprunge\.us/' 2011-0{3,4,9}-??.txt | sed 's/.*\(http[^ ]\+\).*/\1/g;'); do if curl -sS "$x" | grep -c 'push 0xB800' >/dev/null; then echo "$x"; fi; done
< 1320884746 734609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here goes
< 1320884762 995294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: behold ^
< 1320884764 797516 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1320884776 933157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is indeed beholdable
< 1320884788 96715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, um, does it do?
< 1320884826 69543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of the special-cased months, and the curl invocation, means it's a bit hard to figure out
< 1320884839 241239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't remember what B800 does
< 1320884846 563646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: goes through sprunge pastes I made in 2011-{03,04,09} and prints out the ones that contain "push 0xB800", which was one of the first lines of my Forth bootsector code
< 1320884860 989753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1320884879 139117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I mentally read that number as "B800", with a sort of hexadecimal flavour to it
< 1320884880 774306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries "bits 16", that should be 100% reliable
< 1320884887 545751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mentally pronounce the "0x" unless I'm thinking about it
< 1320884890 843699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, B 8 hundred
< 1320884895 74176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320884954 832160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no additional results :/ guess I'll trawl through 2011-{04,05} to find where and how i fixed the bug
< 1320885101 268164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-04-13.txt:20:38:21:  i came here because olsner has a big mouth and elliott has a small forth
< 1320885106 95339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: speaking of that, do you have a copy of it
< 1320885264 218170 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320885281 910759 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320885374 762051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-04-24.txt:19:19:51:  well that forth almost has a compiler now :D
< 1320885375 976621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph
< 1320885383 542351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to rewrite that thing, it was long
< 1320885400 662146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like @ it is
< 1320885836 716618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: pikhq: olsner: You're hired.
< 1320885878 333825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20111104202226210 is the article about SCO vs. IBM reopening
< 1320885887 641732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 6 days old
< 1320885888 768943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, thanks
< 1320885904 725260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SCO has once again filed an inadequately redacted document, so I've pulled the PDF until they replace it"
< 1320885906 989453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. :(
< 1320885936 901836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, why are they still calling themselves SCO if they're TSG now?
< 1320885950 369462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they call everything SCO
< 1320885954 654482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an attempt to confuse people
< 1320885954 808467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320885965 915116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO vs. SCO (IBM)
< 1320885988 207729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they did get IBM's name wrong first time they sued them
< 1320885991 887855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had to try again
< 1320886001 57176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they gave the place of incorporation incorrectly)
< 1320886002 843352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Didn't UnXis also get the SCO Group name? In the SCO bankruptcy filings since the sale, the entity formerly known as The SCO Group calls itself TSG. But UnXis *didn't* get the litigation against IBM. It's listed on the Excluded Assets. So who exactly is this asking to reopen the IBM litigation now? The filings say it's "The SCO GROUP, INC., by and through the Chapter 11 Trustee in Bankruptcy, Edward N
< 1320886002 959104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. Cahn." Maybe the lawyers forgot themselves that they need to change the name. They can do that later, I suppose, but it's odd to anyone like me, who actually keeps track of the details."
< 1320886005 78602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries.
< 1320886084 165496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, slicehost's emails to me are getting depressing
< 1320886091 568930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you still on slicehost?
< 1320886095 699503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :)
< 1320886101 211728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not, are they trying to persuade you to come back?
< 1320886116 560600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one's signed "The Rackspace Team", and is about them discontinuing almost all their linux images
< 1320886121 664643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: considering you can't order new slices, I doubt it
< 1320886131 205828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, maybe you can if you already own an account
< 1320886150 940518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320886154 474137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yeah, rackspace have been in the process of engulfing it completely over the last few months, really slowly
< 1320886155 565404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1320886675 401787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :qwrji0j0qiwejioi
< 1320886680 394682 :qwrji0j0qiwejioi!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott
< 1320887045 661958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yooooooo how's cunionfs :P
< 1320887068 723891 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320887074 667763 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unchanged!
< 1320887091 256407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wooooooooooooooo
< 1320887253 3580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did Kernel Modules for Dummies not work out :P
< 1320887604 77282 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, I ordered The Idiot's Guide, we'll see how that goes.
< 1320887628 942834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Awesome.
< 1320887651 947592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See, without the unionfs component, the only thing I can work on is the hard stuff, like a parser, evaluator, GC.
< 1320887660 40095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I haaaaate you for making me not do the easy stuff.
< 1320887665 750621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll focus on the download progress bars some more.
< 1320887876 122634 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned recently that my graphics card has an integrated audio card?
< 1320887879 636025 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz I feel it needs to be said.
< 1320887888 468028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. Use it to implement cunionfs! That will work.
< 1320887895 795571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, does it give you double audio.
< 1320888008 227957 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, the motherboard has an audio card too.
< 1320888111 545186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sell it to audiophiles.
< 1320888341 104392 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-143.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320888351 261335 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320888624 556604 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320889017 581353 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320889189 411489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found my name is now on the Hackage but they didn't sent the password. It is because the system administrator accidentally made a mistake and blocking all incoming connections to their firewall (that meant they couldn't receive their own messages, either). But they fixed it yesterday, and I sent them another message to tell them it is hopefully fixed now. Tomorrow I can check.
< 1320889210 94328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoorj
< 1320889224 585083 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server maintenance: The greatestest?
< 1320889378 494690 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey another brainfuck equivalent
< 1320889394 812622 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSS
< 1320889399 865527 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more minor rewrites of BF!
< 1320889488 448410 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wordfuck (also known as Natural BF-based language with common instructions and syntax of that language, or just NBFBLWCIASTL) is a language created by User:Marcsances identical to Brainfuck, except the way to write statements. That makes of Wordfuck even more difficult than Brainfuck (if you want to write beautiful programs, if not, it's just as easy as Brainfuck, but longer).
< 1320889489 899634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: monqy: argh this one is annoying because i need to extend my bf-defining metalanguage to support it
< 1320889495 421150 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320889497 849128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's based on length, not direct textual substitution
< 1320889512 653928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg
< 1320889514 968425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what if
< 1320889521 174320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i make my metalanguage
< 1320889522 652793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just brainfuck
< 1320889527 620027 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg
< 1320889527 671740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just write a language->bf compiler in bf
< 1320889528 330216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that
< 1320889528 994855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is
< 1320889531 801499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::')
< 1320889533 609370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful
< 1320889544 679759 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have to leave?? haha school
< 1320889544 795814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am bad
< 1320889548 591134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :school more like
< 1320889549 776379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"drool"
< 1320889552 61209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on your self"
< 1320889553 277702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"because"
< 1320889554 906704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"school sucks"
< 1320889555 277587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1320889564 254438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and because yu are dumb"
< 1320889564 962103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for
< 1320889565 561748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1320889567 431008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"schole"
< 1320889572 595039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding monqy you are coles
< 1320889810 707100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stay in school, kids!
< 1320889818 931680 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets out his acoustic PSA guitar.
< 1320889843 477572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"st ay in school or you will be like Gregor and no cunionfs will ever be yours"
< 1320889846 792639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tm))
< 1320889854 795734 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :School is cool, when you learn you rule! More bad puns because PSA's are cruel!
< 1320890234 503287 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is elliott in school?
< 1320890235 144022 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds elliott's time zone habits a bit mysterious.
< 1320890252 13345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch as they become even more mysterious:
< 1320890253 384319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: !
< 1320890399 275336 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320890848 57464 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320890985 66896 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320891205 781575 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320891350 506702 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320891706 363234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-169.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320891708 986970 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320891911 225011 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320892414 593537 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6de9.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320892871 592633 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320892876 924380 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1320892876 976798 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320893365 574681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320893501 679249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So on thinking about it (= procrastinating more on the harder parts of the package manager), I'm pretty sure that the ideal solution for atomic branch-switching for me would be anything that lets me trivially emulate the following: "Have a process tree all set to source their branches from a file. The file is re-read, and every process in the tree switched to the new branches simultaneously, upon writing to a special file."
< 1320893521 646918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A way to simply update the tree with a new branch list atomically without actually involving the file path in the cunionfs stuff qualifies as trivial emulation.)
< 1320894627 350077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way to make Wordfuck variation, is, punctuation doesn't count, and word with 1 letter means to ignore this word and the next one, word with more than nine letters you put the digits according to the number of letters in the word and do the command according to their decimal digits.
< 1320894657 196581 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the example does the words not very good. Maybe the variation way writes proper wording instead.
< 1320894864 458607 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the article about Lenta, I think either the instructions is wrong or the example is wrong, because it says $ move left but you have to move right to start the program given in the examples.
< 1320894883 841272 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320894976 411202 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, had an interesting idea for a CPU architecture
< 1320894998 710898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: OK. What is your idea?
< 1320895022 166883 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ends up being similar to how out of order cpus work
< 1320895033 303849 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways
< 1320895057 151251 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cpu with 2 modes: "RISC" mode, and what could be called "dataflow" mode
< 1320895094 380474 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :risc mode works just like any other architecture and is used for all the non-performance sensitive code
< 1320895139 528981 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie anything that's probably not going to be in code cache and/or does lots of memory access so it's not going to be faster than 1 op/cycle anyways
< 1320895210 162637 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dataflow mode is used for small loops that churn lots of data, like say a memcopy for instance, or a sound mixing loop
< 1320895249 669540 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sets up the cpu as ~30 ALUs, each leading to one register
< 1320895308 525205 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :on each cycle, each of the ALUs read 1 or 2 values from the other registers, performs a math op on it, and next cycle its register will take the resulting value
< 1320895330 44519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does memory interact with that
< 1320895337 617933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. how does that let you do memcpy
< 1320895394 566103 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the ALU ops is "load from address", will probably be only available on few of the units, and probably stall everything else on cache misses
< 1320895395 578821 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320895475 88481 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the units will probably also be writing units, not doing any math ops but taking an adress and a value and writing there
< 1320895641 263394 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy is pretty simple so it would probably look something like this:
< 1320895641 667803 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r0 = r0 + 4
< 1320895641 902383 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r1 = r1 + 4
< 1320895641 954706 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r2 = load [r0]
< 1320895641 954862 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rWrite: [r1] = r2
< 1320895745 106080 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously r2 will lag a cycle behind r0 so some mechanism has to be added to deal with that
< 1320895837 61558 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for algos larger than the number of units, some kind of "multi cycle" mechanism would have to be used, where the operations for each unit are cycled around
< 1320895927 159360 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it's somewhere between a VLIW processor and some kind of mini-FPGA
< 1320896139 36236 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oooh. Oooh. @ gets really cheap memcpy basically for free.
< 1320896152 110354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm, howso?
< 1320896160 507962 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewrite the page table.
< 1320896175 586888 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice
< 1320896177 196369 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do "normal" memcpy for first/last ~4k if necessary.
< 1320896178 491083 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320896191 689887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That, um, might do badly if anyone mutates it :P
< 1320896198 932986 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, this is nothing unique to @, but it'd be much *easier* to pull off in @ than in UNIX.
< 1320896213 575707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem rewriting the page table really copies the memory, unless you know you will never change the data afterward until the program is finished
< 1320896216 942964 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if ther pages don't align?
< 1320896219 237205 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's why you make it COW.
< 1320896230 341576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh, that would work
< 1320896232 680587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: why doesn't glibc do that
< 1320896242 269789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr:  Do "normal" memcpy for first/last ~4k if necessary.
< 1320896243 433718 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because the page table is not exposed to userspace.
< 1320896246 711190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see
< 1320896252 499648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah what if they don't align what now pikhq_
< 1320896259 69551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm using >4k pages so that's a common scenario
< 1320896281 846076 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: works if the start/end are misaligned I guess, but afaik not if the data is misaligned?
< 1320896282 124182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Clearly* in @ your "memcpy" wouldn't copy from address to address, it would be more of an object clone function.
< 1320896300 69607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you merely need to have the same alignment as the original object.
< 1320896342 931851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Sooo cheating :P
< 1320896344 82124 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aligned to 4k pages? :D
< 1320896356 14592 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only by normal standards.
< 1320896359 357780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: That's not all that uncommon, really
< 1320896374 158155 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ should milk the removed abstraction layers for all it's got. :)
< 1320896431 22808 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously @ still *has* abstraction layers, but they're nowhere near as Carved In Stone as in traditional OS design, I'd imagine.)
< 1320896440 318545 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does GHC allow classes with no parameters?
< 1320896479 704458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1320896561 241026 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the risc+"dataflow" cpu thing is kinda like an attempt at a CPUGPU :D
< 1320896586 611879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cgpu
< 1320896749 68423 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need some more parallelism for that
< 1320897142 4027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Anyway, I don't know why you'd need to clone an object.
< 1320897158 271418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Since my current design still has immutable objects.
< 1320897203 423669 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then you'd be a moron to do that.
< 1320897238 511098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "@: really fast at doing something really pointless"
< 1320897257 286607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320897271 36926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm, what granularity is COW done at? Page level?
< 1320897298 70296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page level.
< 1320897301 715838 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320897314 640251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It functions on page faults.
< 1320897321 643601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Then it could still be useful. Consider a large (many megabyte) unboxed array's underlying storage.
< 1320897338 438728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You want to make a copy of this storage with one word in the middle changed.
< 1320897343 911959 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly.
< 1320897352 565573 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're back.
< 1320897356 114629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Fiddling with the page tables means you only have to copy one page for the purpose.
< 1320897363 108614 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether that makes your time zone more or less mysterious.
< 1320897371 897770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have an infinite supply of mysterions.
< 1320897425 20562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm, that actually sounds like a pretty big win.
< 1320897442 912309 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: His time zone is very clear, his mapping from time to consciousness status is not.
< 1320897446 30387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Large immutable vectors kinda suck in GHC because you're copying all the time.
< 1320897456 350398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Although, to be fair, copying even a page all the time isn't instant...
< 1320897462 3112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it beats copying hundreds of 'em.
< 1320897474 438192 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1320897478 646710 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have decided I will start calling everyone LamE
< 1320897510 766429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm, how easy is it to fuck with the page tables?
< 1320897525 154126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess faster than copying ~2 MiB per page whatever the circumstances :P
< 1320897545 342794 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue is that you need to do at least a partial TLB flush when you update them.
< 1320897557 439256 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it's just mutating a fairly simple data structure.
< 1320897558 584661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I don't really have an intuition for the constant factors involved there.
< 1320897587 530969 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit less than a cache miss, I think.
< 1320897599 836437 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's significantly better if you only do a partial TLB flush.
< 1320897614 762351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320897655 284080 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something that OSes do every time they task switch. :)
< 1320897668 421298 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though, of course, @ would have no need to do it then)
< 1320897894 589420 :gouaf!~gouaf@c-69-143-209-221.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320898140 384884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi gouaf
< 1320898142 164323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1320898145 169335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1320898217 69965 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see some mysic esotericer who manages to conclude that "programming language" is how to describe magik rituals or something
< 1320898245 512528 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which reminds me, can someone help me with this magic spell I've been working on?
< 1320898427 61916 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i wonder if being non deterministic could help making a turing tarpit with less instructions/functionality
< 1320899200 493649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spelled "magick", I'm pretty sure, anyways.
< 1320899205 983477 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you're not a moron, "magic".
< 1320899417 492615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I wonder what @'s in-memory allocator will look like (i.e. that decides a physical address to put an object at when it's first allocated)...
< 1320899426 44428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the one that decides where on the disk to put it after a while.
< 1320899440 218924 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"disk"?
< 1320899455 318299 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the time the first line of code in @ is written, we'll all be using memristors, man.
< 1320899533 954338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper group?   mempty = Equivalence (==); mappend (Equivalence f) (Equivalence g) = Equivalence $ \x y -> (x == y) /= (f x y /= g x y); minverse = id;
< 1320899880 752123 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Where "disk" means "the slowest and largest memory on the system".
< 1320899891 118721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No, that's the internet.
< 1320899898 961933 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Network is the Computer.
< 1320899907 351588 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well. Of course it would be.
< 1320899922 549034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, shaddap, I had an unwanted breakthrough about @ :P
< 1320899928 953641 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that if ISPs got off their asses it wouldn't be.
< 1320899960 299330 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cable can provide more bandwidth than is on my system bus.
< 1320899996 501584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How slow is your system bus
< 1320900033 636643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very. Cable is just *really* underutilised.
< 1320900336 958838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Convince me not to spend ridiculous amounts of money on some worthless bits of paper with Ryan North's signature and drawings of T-Rex drawn to hat specifications as supplied by me
< 1320900381 437740 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Spending money makes you a communist.
< 1320900434 334536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, quite.
< 1320900439 112219 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Dinosaur Comics are, like, boring.
< 1320900460 386364 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
< 1320900495 487049 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic! Shun everything, and then shun shunning!"
< 1320900520 945444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Your opinions are so wrong, SO WRONG.
< 1320900543 183067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaur Comics is something I never have, and never will, dislike; it is the single beacon of hope that proves to me that I am essentially a good person at heart.
< 1320900552 46169 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYz5qnIkf20#t=051s
< 1320900593 883091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's the best kind of hat.
< 1320900612 455115 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends on the kind of head!
< 1320900621 497285 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to go wrong with a Trilby or Derby/Bowler.
< 1320900622 505745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tyrannosaurus rex, green.
< 1320900626 552240 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320900640 88279 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For T-Rex, I'd have to say a top hat.
< 1320900651 103811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think you understand it literally says on the site that you can specify two kinds of hat to be doodled on a doodle of T-Rex by Ryan North???
< 1320900658 523362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you chose YES, please write briefly to whom the books should be made out and the types of hats T-Rex should be wearing!"
< 1320900659 983941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direct quote???
< 1320900662 47192 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whaaaaaaaaa
< 1320900678 639592 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, in that case, you want it to be doodlerific
< 1320900680 530649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is top hat a different kind of hat from top hat?
< 1320900682 766220 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Speaking of comics, did you see that great comic copumpkin linked to yesterday?
< 1320900687 716606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which one?
< 1320900697 924958 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :several
< 1320900714 613758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said singular I am betrayed.
< 1320900716 205981 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'm talking about that one that I actually read.
< 1320900716 986735 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soooooo, tyrolean (yessssss) and either fez or pith helmet.
< 1320900724 584584 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"read"
< 1320900731 488471 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether to inflict it on elliott.
< 1320900735 399877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fez OR pith helmet.
< 1320900747 926774 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pith ... fez?
< 1320900836 39490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pith... fez...
< 1320900841 257978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm waaaaiting.
< 1320900847 620906 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, you want it?
< 1320900851 544030 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime elliott
< 1320900852 8911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Thu Nov 10 04:53:27
< 1320900863 263020 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=31&weekday=tue
< 1320900864 159646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client is actually on Icelandic time.
< 1320900878 557093 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say I recommend it.
< 1320900902 52646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, not that thing again. That was all over the internet weeks ago.
< 1320900907 516211 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1320900916 49188 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels betrayed by copumpkin now.
< 1320900922 547631 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1320900934 400559 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about the other comics I linked to?
< 1320900935 682162 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I demand the latest in unpleasant entertainment.
< 1320900937 929729 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, copumpkin had some other links that I decided not to go to after seeing that one.
< 1320900944 187253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I didn't see the links! It's all shachaf's fault.
< 1320900962 684833 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's your fault because the links were posted in that one channel all the cool people go to.
< 1320900971 564344 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320900974 805163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You mean the one cheater never shuts up in?
< 1320900995 295478 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, there's this NSF[W/L] COMIC OF DOOM: http://ikuikuiku.livejournal.com/53281.html
< 1320901021 738220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs [W/L]s.
< 1320901051 757688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did find some way with barrier monads to do liftIO and even lift things in other monads too, but it isn't really a monad transformer and it requires the use of unsafeCoerce
< 1320901065 863422 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a fairly disturbing but long http://read.mangashare.com/Uzumaki, and a much shorter http://brasscockroach.com/h4ll0w33n2007/manga/Amigara-Full/Amigara.html
< 1320901106 723585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Barrier monads! Talk to zzo38 about barrier monads.
< 1320901172 501749 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barrier monads have such an impressive barrier that unsafeCoerce is needed to penetrate it.
< 1320901182 939569 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you want a good, depressing (but not horror) comic, read http://www.viruscomix.com/page198.html
< 1320901217 733111 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: too tired to think
< 1320901220 172271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: O, that's why!!!
< 1320901356 953582 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, fucking hell.
< 1320901372 860355 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: which?
< 1320901388 828084 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of two very different kinds of "fucking hell" my links would give rise to
< 1320901392 556082 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one.
< 1320901395 236592 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1320901423 108917 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that one's rather, um, different
< 1320901453 482954 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I somehow missed that Winston Rowntree one.
< 1320901492 952136 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times, eh
< 1320901618 67867 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a bit unlike Winston Rowntree.
< 1320901628 928677 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come to expect more words than images from him. :P
< 1320901755 22945 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype FrontIO = FrontIO (IO BackIO); newtype BackIO = BackIO BackIO; instance MonadIO (Barrier FrontIO BackIO) where { liftIO = fmap unsafeCoerce . yield . FrontIO . fmap unsafeCoerce; };   Although it is possible to make it do more, and probably in more generalized way.
< 1320901782 690315 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah
< 1320901812 896992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe like this:   newtype Unsafe = Unsafe Unsafe; newtype FrontT m f = FrontT (Either f (m Unsafe)); newtype BackT m b = BackT Unsafe;
< 1320901879 933587 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It's a bit hard to describe Subnormality as a webcomic, really. More of a web-illustrated-essay-series.
< 1320901887 971130 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1320901897 321233 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell do I use ":P" so much, anyways?
< 1320901908 824220 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause you gotta be upbeat after that comic
< 1320901916 251101 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause otherwise you just cry :P
< 1320901929 64174 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right.
< 1320902429 101787 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320902459 663552 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be neat to have a language where all variables can only be assigned once
< 1320902647 173932 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called static single assignment form, and it's used in the IR of any decent compiler for a language relying on mutable state.
< 1320902658 987293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM allows only one command to assign each variable, you cannot have multiple commands assigning to the same variable; but you can still loop and reassign them, and you can also read/write memory so you can assign however you want.
< 1320902668 84517 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also isomorphic to CPS.
< 1320902690 79378 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IR?
< 1320902761 222776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intermediate Representation.
< 1320902786 71669 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1320902889 993737 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about one where you can't reassign variables on looping :D
< 1320902916 950406 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what you just asked for?
< 1320902922 255538 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320902937 236801 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that you need to keep growing arrays and have some kind of garbage collector
< 1320902951 160469 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We call *that* Haskell.
< 1320902960 937427 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320902977 365697 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, really, lambda calculus.
< 1320902993 700765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though strictly speaking you can't assign any variables in LC. :)
< 1320903037 386335 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried some unlambda... looks a lot like string rewriting really :D
< 1320903072 748911 :gouaf!~gouaf@c-69-143-209-221.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320903106 980468 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strings don't really grow indefinitely afaik... they might grow (s combinator!) or shrink (k combinator !) as you evaluate it :o
< 1320903171 389800 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik it's clear when something has become inaccessible and should get collected :o
< 1320903249 720188 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be because you have no idea how evaluation of functional programming languages works. :)
< 1320903273 58189 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have any experience with that no
< 1320903899 929954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: fsvo clear
< 1320903908 707034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda has a form of laziness
< 1320903922 872470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i believe you can do cyclic structures
< 1320903960 241703 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to look into that
< 1320904217 491399 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an expression in GHCi is of type (IO t) where there is no instance (Show t) is it supposed to display no error message for that? For example,   return id :: IO (a -> a)   displays no message.
< 1320904689 113685 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Unsafe = Unsafe Unsafe; newtype FrontT m f = FrontT (Either f (m Unsafe)); newtype BackT m b = BackT Unsafe; type BarrierT f b m t = Barrier (FrontT m f) (BackT m b) t; bliftMonad :: Functor m => m t -> BarrierT f b m t; bliftMonad = fmap unsafeCoerce . yield . FrontT . Right . fmap unsafeCoerce;
< 1320904700 392434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy
< 1320904716 867201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :joyest
< 1320904717 806306 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hapey
< 1320904727 694525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bliftBarrier :: Barrier f b t -> BarrierT f b m t; bliftBarrier = convert (FrontT . Left) unsafeCoerce; executeBT :: Monad m => BarrierT f b m t -> m (Either t (f, b -> BarrierT f b m t)); executeBT (Unit x) = return $ Left x; executeBT (Fail x) = fail x; executeBT (Barrier (FrontT (Left a)) c) = return $ Right (a, c . BackT . unsafeCoerce); executeBT (Barrier (FrontT (Right a)) c) = a >>= executeBT . c . BackT;
< 1320904787 285962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FrontT and BackT can be opaque types (without exporting their constructor), and Unsafe doesn't need to be exported at all, because it is only used internally.
< 1320904843 986652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does unsafe do
< 1320904883 909417 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean the Unsafe type? It does nothing. It is only there for use with unsafeCoerce
< 1320904891 170448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you sure Unsafe should not be Any from GHC.Exts
< 1320904900 107175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way you are coercing can break
< 1320904913 838621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Any it's guaranteed to work
< 1320904944 734184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes; I want to ask that too. Do you see any possibilities of breaking in my code?
< 1320904961 299396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, no
< 1320905033 508918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any Any in GHC.Exts
< 1320905062 24184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's documented in GHC.Prim
< 1320905069 171752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you import it from Exts
< 1320905159 257677 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that?
< 1320905184 289161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, internal compiler stage bootstraping blah :)
< 1320905218 19197 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I fixed that in my program, now it uses Any instead of Unsafe
< 1320905239 215779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1320905368 741971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least GHC.Prim does say to import GHC.Exts instead. And looking at the codes for GHC.Exts, it does reexport GHC.Prim
< 1320905384 262597 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also says that max tuple size is 62
< 1320906661 899269 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok I have a preliminary syntax for monoassignment language
< 1320906678 599011 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditions : variable = value
< 1320906717 844113 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditions are = != < > <= >= comparison operators, joined together with boolean AND
< 1320906767 757806 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :values are calculated with math operators, kinda like C
< 1320906793 922972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on
< 1320906833 693503 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a variable name never gets any assignment in any of the statements, it's an iterator of some kind
< 1320906858 781110 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be used in array assignments etc
< 1320906903 879737 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :inputsize, outputsize, input[] and output[] are predefined for those functions
< 1320906943 45322 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance, this partitions the input into two arrays, everything up to the first '@', and then everything else:
< 1320906957 263468 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i1c[0]=1
< 1320906957 381851 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i1c[i] input[i]!='@': i1c[i+1] = 1
< 1320906957 436338 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i1c[i] input[i]='@': pend = i+1
< 1320906957 436514 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i=pend i (Disclaimer: not actually true.)
< 1320911284 854134 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm hired? what for?
< 1320911294 473842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: @!!!!!!!!
< 1320911301 276557 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: I'm going to be awake very late tomorrow
< 1320911324 382879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOO
< 1320911842 303829 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: U+MAD?
< 1320911851 845840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bad
< 1320911858 643540 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+MAD is totally a code point.
< 1320911890 789286 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It matches the regexp /^U\+\w+$/, after all.
< 1320911898 553549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: DevHC can't make me mad once I realised that he actually just assumes you're stupid for the first ~3 minutes of any disagreement.
< 1320912008 158355 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw.
< 1320912031 252856 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u not even a little bit mad?
< 1320912044 464363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm opposite mad.
< 1320912067 619743 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comad?
< 1320912072 264450 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomad
< 1320912077 749075 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy++
< 1320912089 920582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1320912099 873194 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose the name "nomad" instead of "comonad".
< 1320912177 892328 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tend to assume people are stupid
< 1320912178 626840 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1320912191 181256 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still does nlt quite understand comonads >.>
< 1320912214 276457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: They usually are, just not in the way you expect them to be. (This is based on piles and piles of evidence, i.e. a few days in #haskell).
< 1320912347 275426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You know, I think it's only a matter of time before DevHC sincerely asks me whether I mad.
< 1320912349 458351 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I always mentally append "(This is based on piles and piles of evidence, i.e. a few days in #haskell)." to everything you say.
< 1320912364 297385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Indeed. (I am a genius).
< 1320912384 720016 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are a genius (this is probably wrong).?
< 1320912390 961934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn.
< 1320912467 118022 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi (Disclaimer: not actually true.)
< 1320912551 616555 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hug monqy
< 1320912551 867584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
< 1320912576 484665 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1320912579 733733 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you done
< 1320912598 15298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned monqy into bug
< 1320912611 18877 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see elliott be wrong about something
< 1320912618 807257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.
< 1320912745 479100 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1320912764 195365 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-10-12 02:00:00  i'm probably wrong, i know nothing about this stuff :)
< 1320912782 918638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a joke.
< 1320912786 861499 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddarius was wrong about something the other day!
< 1320912787 538996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually a genius.
< 1320912790 378071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was astonished.
< 1320913208 144299 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320913333 661649 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320914260 454447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f <*> g) x
< 1320914261 194275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
< 1320914261 350010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ...
< 1320914262 590569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f <*> g) x :: Expr
< 1320914263 329527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
< 1320914263 446778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ...
< 1320914265 971490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1320914271 607976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((==) <*> reverse) "a"
< 1320914272 364742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1320914272 950367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((==) <*> reverse) "ab"
< 1320914273 593904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1320914273 984556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((==) <*> reverse) "aba"
< 1320914274 696189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1320914735 177817 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f <*> (g :: Expr -> Expr)) x :: Expr
< 1320914738 91691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  f x (g x)
< 1320914815 920292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: SimpleReflect should suck less
< 1320915081 350163 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320915156 254756 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320915460 767081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320915650 707589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320916514 710481 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320916541 469882 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320916543 958434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320917006 635100 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320918622 917946 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320919043 737424 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320919104 795950 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320919198 116872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_
< 1320919227 39696 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1320919230 806028 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1320919458 312834 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320919732 447437 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320919765 738148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320920094 237025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Didn't UnXis also get the SCO Group name? In the SCO bankruptcy filings since the sale, the entity formerly known as The SCO Group calls itself TSG. But UnXis *didn't* get the litigation against IBM. It's listed on the Excluded Assets. So who exactly is this asking to reopen the IBM litigation now? The filings say it's "The SCO GROUP, INC., by and through the Chapter 11 Trustee in Bankruptcy, Edward N
< 1320920105 352662 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: left
< 1320920125 746949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :could this mean they've split up so much there is no one left who has standing to sue? :P
< 1320920158 981463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guess not.)
< 1320920171 827754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it wouldn't surprise me :)
< 1320920843 342626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it won't stop them suing anyway
< 1320921052 701030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1320921531 123997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:45:08:  unlambda has a form of laziness
< 1320921531 176422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:45:22:  so i believe you can do cyclic structures
< 1320921533 858552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.
< 1320921542 493063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame
< 1320921546 751070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference counting works for unlambda.
< 1320921552 782231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l a m e
< 1320921780 717549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm doesn't that basically mean that you have to manage your own memory after a certain point in unlambda
< 1320921789 202453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid leaks with simulation of cyclic structures
< 1320921833 268461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps
< 1320921860 497837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't thought much about that, since unlambda isn't really a lazy language
< 1320921885 59626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i've thought about lazy-k, which i think has that problem.
< 1320921946 710185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has laziness, but no way to make something internally cyclic
< 1320922033 930992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i think you always need cyclic structures eventually.
< 1320922043 505060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which means you need pointers, laziness, or a simulation of either.
< 1320922047 839359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320922055 632089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All-around the music world, no a single seriously is aware of what the variation concerning a baritone and a euphonium is. I've heard reasonings of "baritones have the bell facing front" or "euphoniums expense additional." I've compiled evidence to display, with superior explanation, what the distinction among baritones and euphoniums are.
< 1320922062 46249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibilities are, unless of course you've been to a brass band concert, you've never witnessed an actual British baritone. The Yamaha YBH-301 is a common British baritone. A regular British euphonium is the most widespread euphonium and looks anything like a Yamaha YEP-642.
< 1320922097 18885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:LeroyButler647 this is amazing
< 1320922104 278599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1320922106 343849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need deleting
< 1320922107 946249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the domain is expired
< 1320922171 270577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something   Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.  < Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1320922174 539098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1320922178 277944 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something   Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.  < Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1320922182 583553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote
< 1320922186 1394 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something   Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.  < Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1320922194 37014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something   Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.   Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1320922196 643393 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something   Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.   Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1320922400 868021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw expect shachaf to delete that a few times
< 1320922411 192770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1320922421 30169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf doesn't like bots knowing he exists, I think
< 1320922430 200726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote shachaf
< 1320922432 568786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :624)  elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses.   The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 670)  Real Tar is GNU tar.   You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 708)  VMS Mosaic?
< 1320922483 241504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922483 708769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922484 230631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922484 579928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922484 977160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922487 18023 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :638)  if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all
< 1320922493 163066 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :45)  It looks like my hairs are too fat.  Can you help me split them?
< 1320922509 356531 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :269)  who is guido van rossum   you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties
< 1320922510 129414 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :168)  Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible)
< 1320922510 986833 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :474)  I can't afford one of those!   A grandchild, not a laser printer
< 1320922520 743261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help me dec;ide
< 1320922601 933851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320922625 858402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1320922629 24089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb me
< 1320922646 459536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, all good
< 1320922675 102976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok _maybe_ 638 is a bit weak
< 1320922887 638189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922888 119955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922888 627864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922889 102329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922889 336018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320922894 573063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's a good sign that we're running out of bad quotes
< 1320922894 692606 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :303)  enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
< 1320922897 823146 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :89)  I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love
< 1320922898 73045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now watch as these are all terrible
< 1320922901 111583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, saved by solidity
< 1320922911 619186 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :82)  hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling
< 1320922911 968989 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :605)  this strikes me as probably better than a singularity, because you can't trust a random AI, but you can probably trust olsner
< 1320922912 894896 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :24)  so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers
< 1320922954 436804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :303 is perfect, 89 is great, 605 is funny, 24 is a heritage site
< 1320922955 893524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 82
< 1320922958 539288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*  hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling
< 1320923026 875758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320923079 68461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, that was hilarious.  but i guess you have to be evil to appreciate it.
< 1320923178 22836 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320923178 673504 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320923178 726309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320923722 534361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was part of a stupid non-oerjan-quality pun that i forget
< 1320923744 886436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320924142 419436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320924142 775335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320924143 314245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320924143 903089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320924144 370295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320924150 227717 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :503)  Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games.   Nash failed to create a "video game theory"
< 1320924154 217701 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :513)  it actually worked, and faster than using Excel for rendering
< 1320924165 70853 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :525)  "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
< 1320924165 300773 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :444)  elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/
< 1320924165 652294 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :98)  oklopol geez what are you doing here   ...i don't know :<   i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things...
< 1320924191 867487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :503 is A+, 513 is pretty amusing, 525 i don't get and I /said/ it, 444 is not that funny, 98 is good
< 1320924194 2870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 525
< 1320924196 534681 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*  "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
< 1320924257 318995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log  "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
< 1320924281 96975 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-10.txt:11:23:16:  ​*poof*  "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
< 1320924286 600102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:(
< 1320924294 233619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i feel like `log is not as useful as it could be
< 1320924509 568626 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320924667 489119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: argh!
< 1320924678 272533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you deleted the page which I _specifically_ verified did not link to any spam and contained no spammy content.
< 1320924702 872263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you are http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080514
< 1320924711 153807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, wrong window.  well never mind.
< 1320924727 618424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for elliott
< 1320924732 341954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually for HackEgo
< 1320924739 494292 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A283.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320924746 159650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with the eyes of that guy in the last panel, eyes don't work like that
< 1320924765 60045 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's okay, I can add the assignments back to the topic if/when there will be more.
< 1320924781 264391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :foglio isn't _always_ perfect on the anatomy.
< 1320924806 119604 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can't use "will" with "when", but how about "will" with "if"?
< 1320924825 1717 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can
< 1320924834 182538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems ok to me
< 1320924861 480843 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no natural way to use "if/when" in English if it applies to future...
< 1320924901 551626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just talk in Finnish, like half the channel would understand you.
< 1320924910 758305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it'd be the worst half.
< 1320924927 940684 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, definitely
< 1320924950 538663 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Finnish, it is quite commonplace to say "jos/kun" which is the equivalent of "if/when"
< 1320924961 441488 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Finnish does not have a future tense
< 1320924981 947766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finns _have_ no future, you see
< 1320924986 226432 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaa
< 1320924989 652668 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be it
< 1320925007 724809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the country breaks all laws of mathematics and space. Time is just another box to be ticked.
< 1320925021 376844 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :English-talking people, on the other hand, have no future when they're talking about when things happen
< 1320925024 747212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except... not to be ticked, because that implies time passing in an orderly fashion while you tick the box.
< 1320925031 526369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's another box to be made having been ticked at some point or another.
< 1320925052 970520 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the thing is, we do have a past, but the present and the future are molded into one great whole.
< 1320925081 402670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1320925085 790946 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now, off to work ->
< 1320925092 703398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would explain why you guys never make any sense.
< 1320925099 291151 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely.
< 1320925110 963970 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, the future is the worst half of time.
< 1320925195 451309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half?
< 1320925209 154379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I have no idea how far along the universe's projected lifespan we are.
< 1320925415 326266 :kmc!~keegan@184.241.55.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320925502 928652 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's "half" both if time is cyclic and if it's infinite in both directions, so I'm betting on us being halfway through the time
< 1320925522 399067 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I prove to be wrong, you can collect the wins.
< 1320925542 853974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: I wioll haven been gone nao
< 1320925544 993886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/The/ time?
< 1320925558 311587 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320925572 226147 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have many?
< 1320925574 567021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finns have arcane knowledge. Knowledge which in some sense borders on the... esoteric.
< 1320925615 355474 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I was only talking about my time, which might be also yours.
< 1320925648 229823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, when I say "the world", I actually just mean the small section of the world relevant to me.
< 1320925655 413476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world has, like, 100 people in it.
< 1320925663 216313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay probably more than that.
< 1320925671 687915 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my time has all the universe in it.
< 1320925682 541863 :kmc_!~keegan@174-147-98-126.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320925685 830569 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird, but that's now it is
< 1320925701 28306 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how
< 1320925702 271031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* Finns. Always hogging the time.
< 1320925713 588024 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now you know why
< 1320925721 48259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as if a question you would answer yes to is "have you got the time?"!
< 1320925722 933284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA.
< 1320925740 973227 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the question
< 1320925763 947235 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, Finnish has no articles, so most of this discussion doesn't really translate into Finnish
< 1320925786 483293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage for Finnish.
< 1320925792 73554 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the ambiguities are hard to translate.
< 1320925868 970565 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder whether you're talking about economics of the language, or some lewd way our life might be better/worse because we reflect this lack of articles in our way of thinking, as suggested by Sapir-Worff hypothesis...
< 1320925876 156840 :kmc!~keegan@184.241.55.119 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320925945 908428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just thinking that maybe it's better for the world if we can't have discussions like these :P
< 1320925970 395789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sapir-Whorf might be discredited, but it certainly helps to make things a huge pain to talk about.
< 1320926008 458992 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, about economics, then.
< 1320926016 994795 :kmc__!~keegan@174-146-207-66.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320926019 586208 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forgot to start working....
< 1320926027 128809 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm going to try anew
< 1320926029 851671 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think programming languages demonstrate the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis
< 1320926038 58046 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than natural languages
< 1320926063 695433 :kmc__!~keegan@174-146-207-66.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1320926076 76133 :kmc!~keegan@174-146-207-66.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320926117 367406 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're right, because different programming languages talk about different worlds, whereas the world referred to by most natural languages is quite similar
< 1320926205 648016 :kmc_!~keegan@174-147-98-126.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320926733 66654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320927547 309170 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320929021 848617 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320929206 269258 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: back to school
< 1320930222 225541 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320930234 710138 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-96.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320931695 56606 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320931695 724171 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320931695 776966 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320931763 31581 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320932209 969451 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320932291 806433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1320932740 490543 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see there's another bf derivative
< 1320932904 150242 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should encourage people who make bf derivatives to then make another language
< 1320932911 362302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't a bf derivative
< 1320932962 224111 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Brainlove --> Elog
< 1320933182 264321 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, today I realised that I ship Telemachus and Athene
< 1320933421 304088 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also also, there is an object-oriented version of Haskell called Mondrian.
< 1320933430 567485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody should right a Piet implementation in it.
< 1320933468 844687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320933505 939081 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1320933535 299582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320933543 496252 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some spam on the wiki
< 1320933551 309769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a bunch of Agorans just won BlogNomic, btw
< 1320933652 423157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although we agree that an Agoran dynasty would be inappropriate
< 1320934062 245347 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320934062 596396 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320934062 648833 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320934074 72604 :Guest63524!~butt@ANantes-259-1-147-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320934163 129706 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320934216 79584 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-206-51.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320935490 118204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with the more or less constant popularity of bf derivatives (based on number of such languages made) I think it is time to make a Funge-98 fingerprint that essentially contains some of the more popular BF-variants, such as brainfuck and boolfuck.
< 1320935497 827329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  ^
< 1320935727 400466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem an obvious inference to me
< 1320935803 340423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which part of it?
< 1320935820 927286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conclusion; I said that the inference was non-obvious, not the premises
< 1320935860 547448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, there are two inferences there. One is that bf derivatives are popular, the other is that it is time to make such a fingerprint
< 1320935890 505384 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320935914 80638 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320936103 49183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess ais523 was talking about the second
< 1320936176 114668 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320936254 326990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320936692 904545 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320936899 350720 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A283.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320937167 221549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PROPHET HEN OF LEEDS
< 1320937171 140653 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_Hen_of_Leeds
< 1320937915 655417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thumbs up if you're tired of people thumbs uping unoriginal comments asking for thumbs up
< 1320937937 847177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to figure out if the self-parody seen in YouTube comments is itself being parodied
< 1320937948 434883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was the top comment, pretty obviously)
< 1320937967 243144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: "This poultry article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it."
< 1320938235 790676 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320938286 799629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320938582 374341 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This tree-related article is a stub."
< 1320939819 475614 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320939876 893600 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320942644 409868 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-7-28.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320942672 682413 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-91-198.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320942686 969581 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320942687 448614 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320942687 500928 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320942700 392043 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320942894 856856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that tree as in binary trees or trees as in the natural type?
< 1320942914 449927 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-7-28.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tree as in Family tree
< 1320942924 244409 :ive!~nn@189.179.243.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320943963 965202 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320944091 842771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there are only a few copies of my new book left; if you want one for christmas, order now :o"
< 1320944095 649098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I MUST
< 1320944111 738951 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOIT
< 1320944152 306575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But it's like 30 quid for some awesome sketches on some paper that will probably never be used for non-pimping purposes :'(
< 1320944164 377733 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-7-28.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320944189 340634 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIT
< 1320944202 834741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It'd probably be cheaper to fly over to America and meet Ryan North in person and ask him for hat-sketches!
< 1320944210 254104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRETTY SURE THAT WOULD COST LESS THAN 30 POUNDS
< 1320944258 653321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Canada
< 1320944272 933675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Um, SAME THING?
< 1320944280 13896 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nuff
< 1320944288 44604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is Canada on the American continent, but it's TOTALLY the 52nd state.
< 1320944300 401565 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm ... what's the 51st :P
< 1320944300 733583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I made a lie! There's no American continent! That's also a lie! There's TWO!)
< 1320944305 653168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CLASSIFIED.
< 1320944315 645632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean, I briefly forgot how many states there are.
< 1320944332 48728 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods sagely.
< 1320944343 128310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, I have the perfect plan. You could give me 30 pounds, and I could use it to buy the Dinosaur Comic books. ??? Perfect???
< 1320944344 940856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada is not part of the United States. Even though Canada is part of America.
< 1320944446 796565 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :canada is not part of america!
< 1320944456 768654 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only part of north america
< 1320944471 42641 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we can tell by the fact that it is north of america
< 1320944512 865925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized the definition I have for barrier transform is slightly wrong due to:  a = bliftMonad getLine; b = bliftMonad (return 42) :: BarrierT f b IO Int; c = case (b, a) of { (Barrier x y, Barrier z _) -> Barrier z y; }; main = executeBT (c >>= bliftMonad . print);
< 1320944524 886322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you throw money at Amazon to use for later purchases? My mind is considering this as a very viable solution to my debit card's pending expiry.
< 1320944532 401891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, like putting money into PayPal. You can do that right? Help?
< 1320944550 331157 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can put money into PayPal, yes. You could also buy an Amazon gift card if you just want Amazon.
< 1320944564 406231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, I can put money into PayPal, but Amazon sure as hell don't accept PayPal :P
< 1320944578 346973 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can put money into PayPal and get a PayPal debit card :P
< 1320944595 702815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could also just... get a new card.
< 1320944600 857592 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES
< 1320944613 331370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if I could somehow buy Amazon gift cards with PayPal. Are there third-party resellers?
< 1320944627 281312 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320944645 165745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are! They even look... VAGUELY legitimate.
< 1320944689 15555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like they only want to sell me the physical form though.
< 1320944704 27856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to think of how to fix the problem. Maybe it should just be done by making BarrierT an opaque newtype, but are there any other ways?
< 1320944790 797872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Basically I want all the convenience of not having to pre-allocate my money without the annoying obstacle of having to go through some kind of banking institution to do that, despite that being a very large part of their purpose :P
< 1320944806 204290 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PayPal is a banking institution.
< 1320944807 356616 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So nyaa.
< 1320944820 526454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Exactly! One that Amazon doesn't accept. Wow fuck Amazon.
< 1320944829 798213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, do Amazon accept Amazon Payments? I'm not joking.
< 1320944835 647143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could somehow feed PayPal funds into that.
< 1320944841 440913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By working in cash you avoid those problems.
< 1320944860 50212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: s/avoid those problems/replace those problems with completely different, far more stupid, avoidable, and irritating ones/
< 1320944862 38366 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can bundle up your cash carefully, attach it to an email, and send it to Amazon.
< 1320944867 800708 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it is the other problem in case of paying something by computer.
< 1320944878 381986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: For instance, to purchase something online I would have to feed notes into my floppy drive.
< 1320944881 194707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320944882 797651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I haven't got one.
< 1320944891 107288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just told you I haven't got a floppy drive!
< 1320944908 108401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is certain this is how e-commerce works.
< 1320944931 377979 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to purchase Amazon gift cards at stores? If so, that solves it. Or, credit card company's gift cards? Maybe that will work.
< 1320944953 650936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so :P
< 1320944967 997561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh my god, there are 10 pages of designs for Amazon email gift certificates.
< 1320944970 836765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to live in this world.
< 1320944992 204080 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a plain text design?
< 1320945006 620577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1320945031 837940 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they have hundreds and yet they forgot a few!
< 1320945086 994042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing.... Apparently the actual release version of Skyrim hit torrent sites one day before the official launch.
< 1320945137 316176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320945140 413216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/actual release/Golden Master/ we are civilised, there are terms!
< 1320945193 906478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not quite. You know that steam allows you to download like a day or two before release but it is only decrypted on the release day?
< 1320945204 555835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, somehow someone managed to decrypt it in advance
< 1320945229 16563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and I'm not sure the concept "golden master" makes sense for steam :P
< 1320945250 209923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Golden Master is whatever the publisher uploads :P
< 1320945256 207103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320945311 329211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this computer REALLY hates Flash for some reason.
< 1320945318 680966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how so?
< 1320945319 669568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just starts lagging like shit whenever Flash stuff is going on in the background.
< 1320945326 84983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No CPU pegging or anything.
< 1320945330 413562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing the plugin fixes it.
< 1320945336 245813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw some more games were added to the voxatron humble bundle
< 1320945381 675259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said elsewhere: Humble Bundle's business strategy is basically Katamari for games.
< 1320945394 751736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ball of cash just keeps getting bigger and picking up more games.
< 1320945395 221374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha
< 1320945436 375305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320945464 438048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, I'll just preallocate Amazon cash beforehand. No harm in buying more gift-certificate money than I need, since I'll undoubtedly purchase from Amazon in the future.
< 1320946179 472679 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320946345 698459 :Taneb!~androirc@host-78-146-174-251.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320946467 888441 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1320946606 161723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1320946625 131327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you plan to buy on Amazon?
< 1320946638 519042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Drugs. Looooads of illegal drugs.
< 1320946643 524311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right
< 1320946803 962177 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320947434 2243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.everyherbal.com/herbalfire/salvia-divinorum-sampler-pack-p-314.html
< 1320947438 720557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :found this on google shopping.
< 1320947451 830712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hallucinogenic plant of the mint family. also you can buy it online.
< 1320947462 303778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not Amazon.
< 1320947503 286548 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well amazon doesn't /have/ semi-illegal drugs.
< 1320947513 939545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the fuck not?!
< 1320947534 726792 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1320947536 978709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have salvia
< 1320947544 128662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssssss
< 1320947547 738573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in liquid form too. nice.
< 1320947551 496827 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320947556 379809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds convenient!
< 1320947559 943325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway you don't want salvia.
< 1320947569 737580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT ALL THE DRUGS AMAZON HAS TO OFFER, CAKEPROPHET.
< 1320947576 546596 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's guaranteed 5 minutes of bad trip. just sayin'
< 1320947594 734893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssss 5 minutes of SEMI-ILLEGAL AMAZON-PURCHASED bad trip
< 1320947713 972438 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes I suppose so
< 1320947733 725612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm amazon apparently doesn't have psilocybe mushroom spores
< 1320947734 363155 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which
< 1320947738 871699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are legal in most US states
< 1320947746 225806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon, that's so lame of you. :(
< 1320947767 675408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite the grown mushroom caps themselves being illegal.
< 1320947821 137091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but they do have substrates specifically tailors for growing psilocybe spores.
< 1320947828 966933 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tailored
< 1320947829 121325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessssssss
< 1320947837 881263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are on SO many watchlists right now.
< 1320947855 69581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. I am?
< 1320947861 654278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is a prime target?
< 1320947884 206031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Guest63524.
< 1320947886 955785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's FBI
< 1320947894 256638 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or she.
< 1320947900 950538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320947914 521671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: anyway you don't want salvia.
< 1320947919 617432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you want saliva.
< 1320947925 389211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1320947956 422569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uh, are you referencing the Haskell library, just regular mint, or actually salvia divinorum?
< 1320947961 818636 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't want to see you high.
< 1320947964 331816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that me?
< 1320947969 65467 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I you?
< 1320947992 859686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I think it is possibly the only way the Elliott IRC Experience could reach a new level of intensity. What I'm saying is, not only would I get banned, the whole UNIVERSE would get banned.
< 1320948012 327447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You're dyslexic.
< 1320948021 32666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah yes.
< 1320948022 886882 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am.
< 1320948162 604325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should make a web app framework called Psilocybe
< 1320948175 656711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be on par with Salvia and loli.
< 1320948180 584971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of questionable names.
< 1320948222 972295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :questionably named web app things.
< 1320948226 188939 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320948243 33577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :announcing my new haskell webframe work " poop"
< 1320948269 749700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  elliott: anyway you don't want salvia. <-- btw, salvia is the Swedish word for the plant "sage".
< 1320948295 796559 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sages #esoteric
< 1320948307 174560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seels it is "Salvia officinalis" in Latin
< 1320948308 725194 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_officinalis  "common sage"
< 1320948317 692841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes.
< 1320948321 578150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: beat you to that
< 1320948322 916303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Isn't salvia-the-drug just a type of sage.
< 1320948324 45545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also seems*
< 1320948333 818201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea
< 1320948335 578743 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: type of mint. is that the same thing?
< 1320948340 347641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, obviously.
< 1320948342 308399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it peppermint?
< 1320948350 339210 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1320948350 766848 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is almost ashamed he knows of 4chan's sage stuff
< 1320948373 957214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUUUN
< 1320948375 835477 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it smells kind of like tea leaves to me.
< 1320948380 56235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN
< 1320948381 959394 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320948384 165797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :minty tea leaves.
< 1320948395 932659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's funny because sage doesn't even originate from 4chan anyway.)
< 1320948400 677870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming shunning is funny.)
< 1320948407 744303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not funny, we're awful people.)
< 1320948408 601746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, trying to run mplayer and Flash at the same time, mplayer spits out, amongst other things, "[AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1293:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open '/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p' failed (-16): Device or resource busy
< 1320948408 724382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AO_ALSA] Playback open error: Device or resource busy
< 1320948408 777961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa'"
< 1320948409 837016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By we I maen me.)
< 1320948412 372087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(implying elliott assumes shunning is funny)
< 1320948430 657930 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(implying tautology club is tautology club)
< 1320948456 189966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess you have no hardware mixer and no mixer like arts, esd, pulseaudio, whatever
< 1320948467 936971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's interesting about salvia divinorum is that no other hallucinogen is of the same chemical nature.
< 1320948468 806151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Isn't that what dmix is for?
< 1320948470 703387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mplayer just isn't using that
< 1320948474 653648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, dmix too
< 1320948475 469223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only known hallucinogen of its kind.
< 1320948483 99789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would expect that to be enabled out-of-the-box.
< 1320948483 347038 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas all of the others are broadly classified into two categories.
< 1320948509 103546 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does sage originate from?
< 1320948512 313767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh?
< 1320948517 723855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsa -mixer dmix doesn't work.
< 1320948519 792407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on distro
< 1320948531 327701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know for sure it isn't on arch linux.
< 1320948536 554729 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C0C1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320948547 921742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's doing my mixing then
< 1320948559 501488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably pulse audio?
< 1320948564 300940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't install Pulse.
< 1320948575 161406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or it is enabled by default on more modern installs
< 1320948579 405318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't on mine I know
< 1320948583 603021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1320948674 872110 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'A survey of salvia users found that 38% described the effects as unique in comparison to other methods of altering consciousness. 23% said the effects were like yoga, meditation or trance.'
< 1320948679 839985 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell kind of yoga are these people doing.
< 1320948690 28753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOOKY yoga.
< 1320948694 234907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like yoga but with a SKULL.
< 1320948717 181123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard anyone say "yoga is great! it feels like you're melting into the floor!"
< 1320948745 275214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like you've never even DONE yoga.
< 1320948756 957835 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: holy crap HOW DID YOU KNOW?
< 1320949215 186493 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you make me fun.
< 1320949224 309115 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1320949241 142316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I make everyone fun.
< 1320949245 905881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone is just so boring without me.
< 1320949281 921610 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coincidentally they use the Latin name ("salvia") also as the Finnish name of the plant. Perhaps because it doesn't really sound very foreign.
< 1320949319 177668 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.deuceofclubs.com/amusive/easap036.htm   I'm happy ereryday. because you make me fun, don't worry let's smile
< 1320949322 159793 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1320949349 92660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320949386 472472 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "ryytisalvia" for salvia officinalis in particular, assumedly stolen from Swedish "kryddsalvia".)
< 1320949408 671311 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you finns have no originality.
< 1320949417 551072 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is very true.
< 1320949505 957285 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find very few references to the Mondrian programming language
< 1320949520 470996 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There appear to have been at least two
< 1320949565 177495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the one the Piet page mentions, but the link there is dead.
< 1320949574 928782 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_(programming_language)#Related_languages
< 1320949578 205803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No link given
< 1320949654 702449 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.0.0/doc/html/Text-Parsec-Language.html
< 1320949666 814441 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You may have landed on this page from following a link for Mondrian. This was a project originally started by Erik Meijer which then moved to New Zealand. Mondrian was a functional language specifically designed to inter-operate with other languages in an OO environment and versions existed for the JVM and CLI. Mondrian also supported ASP.NET, allowing you to embed functional language code in web pages along with C# code. The project predates our in-house Hask
< 1320949666 867407 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ell work, has not been kept up-to-date with CLI releases, and we no longer make it available."
< 1320949677 251823 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From http://kahu.zoot.net.nz/)
< 1320949736 963982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can I make you my search engine?
< 1320949746 80032 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have an URL.
< 1320949758 660458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you support OpenSearch?
< 1320949813 770543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seriously considers writing a web interface to fizzie.
< 1320949835 699038 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is actually the same thing the Piet page is talking about, since the dude -- at http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/ErikMeijer.html -- links to the same dead place as the Piet page.
< 1320949853 24927 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is vaguely creepy
< 1320949872 317579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IIRC DMM complained that Mondrian was some kind of boring OO thing, so the description kinda fits.
< 1320949891 174435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Missing the functional aspect is understandable if a langauge is targeting the JVM and CLI.)
< 1320949908 211397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To add to the intrigue, Parsec comes with a language definition for "Mondrian".
< 1320949910 527266 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some papers on the dude's page.
< 1320949917 341678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's the Haskell Mondrian,t hough.
< 1320949923 760845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.1.2/doc/html/src/Text-Parsec-Language.html
< 1320949931 921011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :		{ reservedNames = [ "case", "class", "default", "extends"
< 1320949931 973502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :				  , "import", "in", "let", "new", "of", "package"
< 1320949931 973699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :				  ]
< 1320949933 360768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not?
< 1320949939 572149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/t hough/ though/
< 1320949953 871021 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/Papers/Mondrian.pdf is probably most relevant; at least 'class' is there.
< 1320949975 586619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where have I heard of Erik Meijer before?
< 1320949988 139858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, I think he's (co-)written a lot of Haskell papers.
< 1320950021 344566 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a couple Haskell Workshop and ICFP ones, yes.
< 1320950048 499459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe you recall him from the "XML Support in VB9" paper, that sounds so relevant to your interests.
< 1320950107 88335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally.
< 1320950173 668084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320950267 406025 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cautionary tale from his page: "A few versions ago, I was know as "the banana man" because of my work on Squiggol and applying category theory to structure functional programs."
< 1320950292 265859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh.* He's the bananas, lenses and barbed wire guy.
< 1320950297 817025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains it.
< 1320950334 712577 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1320950335 479221 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez wc y
< 1320950344 410967 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sffedeesh swedish fish
< 1320950358 822310 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: I hate you.
< 1320950388 119323 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!acro
< 1320950421 496357 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320950422 116605 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320950422 169520 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320950503 722465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AUTOMATED QUERY BEGIN]
< 1320950507 248918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sausages in the 18th century
< 1320950507 376253 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320950510 177028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AUTOMATED QUERY END]
< 1320950545 536360 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320950610 547384 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is easily amused by 4chan.org/flash
< 1320950636 54194 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...some stuff may be NSFW
< 1320950646 672164 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW!?
< 1320950648 728514 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's not why I'm amused
< 1320950657 666173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is the most SFW.
< 1320950659 578190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckity fuckity fuck.
< 1320950661 531688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The words 'no', 'shit' and 'Sherlock' all come to mind.
< 1320950678 642773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Sherlock shit? Why a ban on specifically Sherlock's feces?
< 1320950757 321558 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320950803 372743 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, v8 is the latest version of Flash player
< 1320950810 674668 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320950831 816299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://web.archive.org/web/20031202023619im_/http://www.research.microsoft.com/~emeijer/Media/panel.gif
< 1320951824 784555 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Hackiki now /officially/ has no users.
< 1320951824 875083 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessssssssssssssss.
< 1320952182 122438 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap, I've been highlighted in #esoteric again
< 1320952190 74664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scrolls back
< 1320952263 904590 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 605
< 1320952270 155977 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :605)  It is like the Holocaust but with Nazis.
< 1320952294 62974 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it must've gotten renumbered in all the deletion that happened since that log line
< 1320952419 568891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What happened :P
< 1320952420 578178 :kmc!~keegan@174-146-207-66.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320952440 801369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackiki.org/wiki/ ;; it disappointingly still exists???
< 1320952456 576786 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320952458 276230 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320952625 466758 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe I just don't like the bot highlighting my name.
< 1320952639 515600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo shachaf
< 1320952666 563969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot???
< 1320952667 896743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: FUNGOT!!!
< 1320953122 491571 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Fungot!
< 1320953142 568970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320953212 500355 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320953236 776099 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320953266 75387 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1320953282 824216 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears.
< 1320953286 519290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Explain the flood and also what you said :P
< 1320953287 564656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oerjan
< 1320953294 844854 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flood?
< 1320953301 794571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Gregor has quit (Excess Flood)
< 1320953308 948554 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, that Idonno :P
< 1320953320 988787 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure why I got kicked.
< 1320953336 628440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK, Hackiki now /officially/ has no users.
< 1320953338 492729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, the one known user of Hackiki other than myself is now a known non-user of Hackiki :P
< 1320953339 242269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now explain :P
< 1320953342 532652 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did.
< 1320953371 838973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did they stop because of your SECURITY SPLOIT? :P
< 1320953379 347858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(People other than you used Hackiki?)
< 1320953383 14901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, "person", I guess.)
< 1320953386 935299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Person other than you used Hackiki?)
< 1320953390 907291 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really got Hackiki
< 1320953423 385431 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He hosted a Wiki for a Unix UG on Hackiki, but through me, and was paying me for it. After not using it for two years, he decided to stop.
< 1320953442 955181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow :P
< 1320953462 679736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shoulda got him on a long-term contract.
< 1320953530 618830 :Guest63524!~butt@ANantes-259-1-147-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah
< 1320953690 443261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ngevd: I think it is possibly the only way the Elliott IRC Experience could reach a new level of intensity. What I'm saying is, not only would I get banned, the whole UNIVERSE would get banned.
< 1320953698 433974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you misspelled insanity.
< 1320953704 287680 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote elliott
< 1320953706 700173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :190)  elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 193)  elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 202)  elliott: My university has
< 1320953730 318346 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320953735 283814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote  Vorpal loves the sodomy.   elliott, sure why not \ 212)  [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS. \ 213)  So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing]  It's a trivial C program :P \ 220) * pikhq sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot    pikhq:
< 1320953744 212893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can annoy elliott by pinging his name in #esoteric, because he's always in here anyway.
< 1320953745 503810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 212
< 1320953748 7243 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*  [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS.
< 1320953752 365173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal just added that because of the sodomy one.
< 1320953772 392747 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot?
< 1320953801 686037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has gone to a secret meeting of secret bot overlords
< 1320953817 330515 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am useless-fungot, I have no state
< 1320953824 743843 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :usless-fungot!!!
< 1320953826 385621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi useless-fungot
< 1320953828 632097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love you
< 1320953831 93727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not useless
< 1320953833 187328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be friends with us
< 1320953839 790600 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like friendship mouse!
< 1320953841 7708 :kmc!~keegan@174-146-207-66.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320953852 38834 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Kentucky Mutilated Chicken
< 1320953863 774950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (this isn't part of the state, right?)S
< 1320953874 903605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that is indeed pretty useless
< 1320953878 975438 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command char is ]
< 1320953882 385789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Keegan McSomething iirc
< 1320953886 25945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (this isn't part of the state, right?)S
< 1320953886 265217 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't part of the state, right?
< 1320953888 318015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320953890 727472 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (test)S
< 1320953891 107880 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1320953908 821375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]raw QUIT
< 1320953913 31527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1320953952 543031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ]ul (test)S
< 1320953954 52165 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​]ul (test)S
< 1320953962 242525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it still remembers its ignore list
< 1320953988 452488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that's not HackEgo's bad feature
< 1320953995 311497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?so ]ul (test)S
< 1320953995 684652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (test)S not available
< 1320953995 814583 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :test ...bad insn!
< 1320953997 996555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320954006 339353 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320954009 44585 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320954010 13964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!
< 1320954010 588769 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: memory is automatically freed when the routine returns, no more.
< 1320954018 390808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have killed this imposter!
< 1320954024 526754 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he was our friend!
< 1320954032 847330 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320954043 696983 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was mouse-like in friendliness!
< 1320954046 479143 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you killed him!
< 1320954051 22129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :revive useless-fungot fizzie :'(
< 1320954051 307539 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i do get to that part
< 1320954059 330434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it just freed its memory, as it said
< 1320954073 546902 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo @echo echo
< 1320954073 861162 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1320954074 287952 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1320954075 159341 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@echo echo
< 1320954077 195179 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had nothing to do with any useless fungots. :/ :/ :\
< 1320954077 683497 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds great. what kind of comments were you looking for? ' l' is the ' title' sed -e ' s//')" /usr/ bin/ fnord
< 1320954119 73563 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEORY: useless-fungot was Deewieant.
< 1320954119 789843 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: undefined method `empty' for :array fnord fnord fnord return fnord fnord y fnord z) ( 5 t))))(if ( i 20)(cons y ( g ( fnord,
< 1320954155 190265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Thence whom htv.fi????
< 1320954162 569583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you use the IP-ADDRESS MATCHING MACHINE to corraboramorate that theory.
< 1320954182 772537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't HAVE one of those.
< 1320954184 483688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be useful.
< 1320954193 914723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :etacorroborrocate
< 1320954203 814312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run grep cs27125254.pp.htv.fi /var/logs/_esoteric/????-??-??-raw.txt
< 1320954204 557565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fizzie's right, /whowas useless-fungot matches /whois Deewiant
< 1320954204 981824 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm getting lowest ping delay ever, fnord ms to the nearest mark.
< 1320954205 927518 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: /var/logs/_esoteric/????-??-??-raw.txt: No such file or directory
< 1320954223 517102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have run a really complex UL program on useless-fungot
< 1320954224 19085 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cfunge use no external libraries that rely on mutation with precisely mutative operations. linear-update operations may be fnord, just not doing a dns lookup :p
< 1320954235 343643 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My THEORY was /right/?
< 1320954241 328904 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you make of this?
< 1320954241 971282 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no! type safety really means safety. c++ does not belong to the set
< 1320954264 169457 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the MACHINE works, you set up these numbered balls to resemble IP addresses, and then the balls go to the large drum, and then it rotates, and then you get 7 matching numbers and win millions. Plus three extra numbers.
< 1320954330 474272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it uses IPv6!?
< 1320954339 456154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just put in more balls.
< 1320954365 765574 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF COURSE
< 1320954390 146938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanoballs
< 1320954390 628446 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, that takes balls to pull off
< 1320954413 146302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a drum the size of half of earth
< 1320954464 606676 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or has the art for Freefall suddenly improved?
< 1320954489 436117 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there has not been a "HTV" (for "Helsinki TeleVisio") in quite a while; it's been "Welho" since 2006, and I think it's "DNA Welho" now that Sanoma sold the cable TV/Internet business to DNA.
< 1320954535 266704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I assumed it was like... Helsinki Technology Vuniversityof.
< 1320954590 63896 :ive!~nn@189.179.243.32 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320954608 493502 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the old "hut.fi" names.
< 1320954610 435795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should do a Rubik's cube where you have to assemble it into the entire 16-bit RGB colour space.
< 1320954614 919075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big would that be?
< 1320954624 618797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: how so?
< 1320954628 988624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, not 16-bit.
< 1320954629 782622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :24-bit.
< 1320954634 448958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, #ABCDEF.
< 1320954640 371627 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320954644 743189 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like this work-box.
< 1320954652 688680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: GET ON THE MATHEMATICS
< 1320954653 250517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ABBREVIATE IT!
< 1320954659 714885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?????????????/////////
< 1320954671 167473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjudicated blind collaborative…
< 1320954674 846100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget where it goes from there
< 1320954678 944843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320954681 445974 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, dunno, it just seems to have
< 1320954693 470515 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something esolang factory
< 1320954700 210180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my eyes don't really notice anything...
< 1320954710 904235 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I accidentally joined #esoteric of IRCnet first. There was a single person on the channel, and the topic said something about esoteric philosophy.
< 1320954730 548863 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you at least say "hi"?
< 1320954732 112325 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESIGN
< 1320954732 815506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY, somewhere to point people!
< 1320954759 889988 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, I /part'd in a huff.
< 1320954761 384917 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, there are only three IRC channels on one server
< 1320954772 10624 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric, #esoteric-minecraft, and #darths
< 1320954773 905564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: the idea is that we can tell people to go there if they're coming here for the wrong esoteric
< 1320954774 636159 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: That's a bit rude.
< 1320954776 66634 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On irc.esper.net
< 1320954782 904128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: Why can't I connect to irc.ircnet.org
< 1320954801 588611 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320954801 814760 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320954801 867534 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320954803 86357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I insufficiently European
< 1320954821 365873 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://irc.tu-ilmenau.de/all_servers/
< 1320954836 858072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your europeanness is exceedlingly brittle
< 1320954841 706723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-l
< 1320954855 495628 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ix.irc.at has the most accurate description.
< 1320954866 383167 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am more European than most Brits.
< 1320954867 594598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I like how the form's broken
< 1320954879 640856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ircnet doesn't have a central send-to-random-server
< 1320954888 922822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Freenode does
< 1320954892 751639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric is: EsotericPhilosopher.com - Esoteric Philosophy
< 1320954892 805054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric set by Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net at Wed Nov  9 17:48:40 2011
< 1320954892 805230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Users on #esoteric: elliott @Cocytus
< 1320954899 180489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC
< 1320954899 298110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network: Freenode
< 1320954899 350547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channel: #Philosopher
< 1320954912 422425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make friends with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait no he's probably awful.
< 1320954916 132334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god.
< 1320954918 796130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what I'm going to do.
< 1320954922 908685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to start talking about esolangs in there.
< 1320954927 271004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAYBACK TIME, BITCHES
< 1320954932 799458 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's going to be all confused how popular the channel suddenly is.
< 1320954986 907482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh no.
< 1320954991 180115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My #esoteric tab went red.
< 1320954994 88808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means there's messages.
< 1320954996 931520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too embarrassed to look.
< 1320955005 88772 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's me
< 1320955005 394408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE JOIN ME FOR SUPPORT
< 1320955007 892994 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry
< 1320955009 435806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good.
< 1320955013 55058 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320955016 722894 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite many (at least the .fi) IRCnet servers only allow "local" (for some values of) people; ideally you'd just connect to the server of your university/ISP.
< 1320955017 122996 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that channel is mainly Hexhamers
< 1320955022 37141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320955032 634011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I just connected to xs4all's.
< 1320955035 382136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, you know, access for all.
< 1320955054 225244 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP's server is on the other side of the country and my university's sucks so I use fizzie's ISP's
< 1320955072 628761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, Nebula has generic-enough I:lines for that?
< 1320955075 668269 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320955094 824223 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also why you be dissin' irc.cs.hut.fi, it's not that bad.
< 1320955106 19373 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what an I:line is but the connection works so I guess so
< 1320955110 209491 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in permanent split-mode :-P
< 1320955122 369494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol?
< 1320955145 940138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think I:lines are IP whitelists or something.
< 1320955148 491180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To keep the foreigners out.
< 1320955160 21801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically yes
< 1320955162 657093 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would've been my guess
< 1320955180 686042 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/stats I" -- I see there's a 0.0.0.0/0 catch-all line nowadays.
< 1320955191 494754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the haps on IRCNet, I want to see people talk Finnish
< 1320955230 888555 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could consider #linux.fi, I've been banned from there once or twice, for associating with the wrong sort of people.
< 1320955232 148859 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't see that
< 1320955256 991956 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I do see *@*.pp.*.fi, though
< 1320955276 997845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The "wrong sort of people"?
< 1320955284 565736 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320955284 855134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cannot join #linux.fi (Channel is invite only).
< 1320955288 483376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not Finnish enough.
< 1320955288 559410 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know, Swedes
< 1320955289 874944 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, crap, I'm actually on cs.hut.fi, darn
< 1320955304 502942 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been on nebula though :-P
< 1320955316 685461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [fizzie] @!4QPSPt934400 @#irtie @#getnolife #douglasadams #!/usr/bin/ff
< 1320955321 685281 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite 246*!*@*
< 1320955321 737495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite *!*@*.fi
< 1320955326 731822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wasn't !4QPSPt934400 the one I invaded last time? :p
< 1320955328 96697 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need to be Finnish enough.
< 1320955328 463946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, wow.
< 1320955329 71718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :getnolife?
< 1320955349 429327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite 246*!*@* <-- uh
< 1320955351 446494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1320955364 787211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does that invite even make sense
< 1320955366 271551 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's for the autogenerated nicknames.
< 1320955372 151499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: uh?
< 1320955384 80290 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They get the server number prefix thingie-thingie, 246* matches Finland.
< 1320955387 646059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320955396 329343 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For the current IRCnet "handle nick collisions by renaming" thing.
< 1320955421 514872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1320955432 516668 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually it was !4OOW7t934400 at that time; it managed to become empty and therefore got a new random ID generated.
< 1320955444 151436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: Can I forge a .fi hostname easily? I want to join the #linux.fi gang.
< 1320955453 2734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely IRCnet is lawless enough for that.
< 1320955469 430077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to find a really hippie server with a /changehost command.
< 1320955495 327109 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether IRCnet servers generally do a forward-lookup check. It could be they just trust reverse DNS as-is.
< 1320955536 30209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I doubt I control my reverse DNS :P
< 1320955539 20074 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you'd need to just fake that.
< 1320955546 748239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It would be great if they used the old USER syntax and believed the hostname you gave it.
< 1320955579 761281 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, but you could control it for e.g. a Hurricane Electric and/or SixXS IPv6 tunnel or whatever. (Though SixXS would then ban you for "DNS spam".)
< 1320955622 516990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wouldn't say #linux.fi would be worth it.
< 1320955632 5206 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can join an empty channel and ban yourself to get the same experience.
< 1320955638 361768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320955661 731134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So how big would that Cube be
< 1320955722 624040 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Cube
< 1320955743 667387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 128x128x128 I thought?
< 1320955759 497468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : They should do a Rubik's cube where you have to assemble it into the entire 16-bit RGB colour space.
< 1320955759 549819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : How big would that be?
< 1320955760 159808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Uh, not 16-bit.
< 1320955760 212797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 24-bit.
< 1320955760 212896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You know, #ABCDEF.
< 1320955767 249113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big physically, I mean :P
< 1320955784 242434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nah, you can't see the colours on the inside, obviously
< 1320955795 237329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you rotate the result around fully, you should see every 24-bit RGB colour
< 1320955804 804364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a spectrum
< 1320955827 207761 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (2^24/6)
< 1320955827 941361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1672.184997739983
< 1320955871 606270 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also #getnolife was a sort of a splinter group of "Irti Elämästä ry"; you can try to Googlelate http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irti_El%C3%A4m%C3%A4st%C3%A4 though I doubt it will much help. Both are defunct now.
< 1320955876 686047 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1320955877 172169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320955882 285820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway that was a a322 reference
< 1320955906 88373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Boredom, and epäviileyden nörttiyden promotion.
< 1320955906 757751 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320955925 380683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rautio, May Day: Nerd culture increases -> (and destruction?) [_ Protu (Journal) . 2005 # 2. Prometheus Camp Association. Subsequent 26/11/2009.
< 1320955931 462554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like something fungot would say.
< 1320955931 588934 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unlambda is weird
< 1320955934 755296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha.
< 1320955946 652319 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320955969 578026 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The rise (and fall?) of nerd culture" would be a more apt translation of the title.
< 1320955986 730245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer "Nerd culture increases -> (and dsetuction?) [_".
< 1320955992 682491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dsetuction/destruction/
< 1320956137 412835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The original organization organized a "nerd attack" to the Helsinki main railway station in 1999; the main thing I recall from that was that they IRCed from inside the storage lockers of the railway station -- cf. http://www.protu.fi/lehti/lehti2-05/kuvat/nortit_lokeroissa_iso.jpg
< 1320956149 641934 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made the "main" newspapers and all.
< 1320956150 751904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why am I not this cool???
< 1320956188 175688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it all sort of fizzled out pretty soon.
< 1320956218 50404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wasn't lying
< 1320956220 231952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1320956378 442667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have I mentioned how I think (safeWriteIORef :: IORef a -> a -> b -> b) is safe?
< 1320956389 791850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :safeWriteIORef ref v a = unsafePerformIO (writeIORef ref v >> return a)
< 1320956418 790048 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the b
< 1320956428 413647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: As opposed to
< 1320956436 609540 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people were annoyed when the social side (meetings and all that) was starting to dominate the organization; there was a (democratic) coup, and then the newly elected government disbanded the organization and started the "People's Democratic Irti Elämästä", while the people who liked being social started "Getnolife". I don't think either one of the new organizations survived for so very long.
< 1320956441 185457 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IORef a -> a -> a
< 1320956452 735091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Returning what, v?
< 1320956456 72390 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yep
< 1320956457 451781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't ever a member of any of these, just sort of watched from the sidelines.
< 1320956461 475386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Less general
< 1320956466 529443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (Don't say seq, you need pseq)
< 1320956478 351276 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the irtie folks were in fact the "wrong people" associating with whom got me banned from #linux.fi.
< 1320956509 504265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320956524 911621 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320956525 747028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why is Finnish culture so fucking interesting :(
< 1320956526 765994 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to say that you don't need the generality for anything but I guess it's easier than using pseq
< 1320956530 919892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have no IRC gangs!
< 1320956538 768566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: pseq isn't standard
< 1320956547 948859 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure "culture" is the right word here, and this was all long time ago, there's nothing interesting going on in modern-day Finland.
< 1320956551 775352 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unsafePerformIO and writeIORef are?
< 1320956559 605211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unsafePerformIO is in Haskell 2010
< 1320956566 682301 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: writeIORef is?
< 1320956569 479853 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320956578 725150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no, surprisingly enough
< 1320956581 284298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's ubiquitous
< 1320956583 828106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseq ain't
< 1320956628 525046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess pseq a b = unsafePerformIO (a `seq` return b) is a portable pseq :)
< 1320956769 657489 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320956798 546803 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i was going to refer you to this room. but i had a feeling you were already here.
< 1320956807 322446 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART :#esoteric
< 1320956822 756971 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320956831 467705 :ive!~nn@189.179.243.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320956839 86570 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320956886 508270 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elliot, phantom_hoover)
< 1320956886 560716 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott*
< 1320956928 873453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, dammit
< 1320956932 891983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've been here before haven't you :P
< 1320956938 970846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our beautiful prank ruined forever :'(
< 1320956982 551953 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART :#esoteric
< 1320957036 809422 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957037 325220 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1320957037 377828 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957053 193658 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320957078 606685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320957098 174337 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957098 924318 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320957098 979457 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957180 120792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957204 88913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "you" = ?
< 1320957284 452281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weak (MVar (HashMap a (Weak b)))
< 1320957287 435999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: behold my beauty
< 1320957293 733123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in
< 1320957295 112386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the form of a type
< 1320957346 379319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a type
< 1320957350 67855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320957353 571800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at admiring type beauty
< 1320957364 639227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it help if you know that Weak is a weak pointer?
< 1320957367 148274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and MVar a mutable reference?
< 1320957378 257170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language is this?
< 1320957381 212480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell
< 1320957387 661282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it, umm, makes it worse
< 1320957395 690991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse in a /beautiful/ way
< 1320957465 784090 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957493 230516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1320957807 474454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320957826 211369 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when we made ABCDEF...G?
< 1320957858 130811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you've been here before haven't you :P <-- i thought the nick looked familiar
< 1320957877 516096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: insufficient horror at the safety of safeWriteIORef
< 1320957929 278267 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ooh, I'm Finnish!
< 1320957936 784357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Quite.
< 1320957938 377230 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows little of Finnish culture, though. :-(
< 1320957948 895666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't understand why that would be considered safe...
< 1320957950 976735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's based around IRC and the demoscene.
< 1320957958 221400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it has no observable side-effects outside of IO
< 1320957970 6435 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think that's hwo Finnish culture works...
< 1320957993 45631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and, of course, with things like StableNames and so on, we find it perfectly acceptable to be able to observe more about the evaluation of pure expressions than the semantics allow, so long as it is in IO
< 1320958005 590070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW, I think Data.IORef is standard, since you can implement it in terms of the FFI
< 1320958016 632021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm
< 1320958019 975592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess only for Storable types
< 1320958034 429500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait
< 1320958038 285618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it in terms of mutable arrays methinks
< 1320958048 598687 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish culture has no observable side-effects outside of IO!?
< 1320958051 320400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which aren't standard >_<
< 1320958095 237075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha
< 1320958096 683536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :StablePtrs
< 1320958098 927424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let you do it
< 1320958106 459405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's the truth!
< 1320958126 774629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finns are a pure people
< 1320958194 70129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm
< 1320958199 724353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :StablePtrs are immutable
< 1320958208 868163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha
< 1320958210 573674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're Storable
< 1320958261 213565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: iirc that's how the reflection package worked
< 1320958286 64478 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see philosophy guy caught onto us
< 1320958300 48975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think I have a workable implementation :)
< 1320958302 700966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype IORef a = IORef (ForeignPtr (StablePtr a))
< 1320958304 160944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strategy, that is
< 1320958311 58721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION briefly wonders why he's implementing portable IORefs
< 1320958368 541367 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :briefly? what made you stop wondering?
< 1320958378 283332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to maintain the illusion that there will ever be a non-ghc-based full haskell implementation again
< 1320958441 246220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc is like this beast that just keeps growing type tentacles
< 1320958551 545634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some time in the next 2-3 years someone (perhaps named kiselyov) will discover that ghc's type system has grown to the point of supporting a full embedded dependent type system by accident
< 1320958561 20613 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia: all natural numbers are one less than another natural number
< 1320958561 73136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This works backwards almost all the time
< 1320958735 303922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oerjan: http://sprunge.us/Qcjg
< 1320958741 903905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore Data.IORef is standard, Q.E.D.
< 1320958760 749775 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkFinalizer?
< 1320958779 564109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant:
< 1320958779 843874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign import ccall "wrapper"
< 1320958779 896713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mkFinalizer :: (Ptr a -> IO ()) -> IO (FunPtr (Ptr a -> IO ()))
< 1320958785 189924 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.....
< 1320958789 111711 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look "standard"
< 1320958789 349528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch8.html
< 1320958794 956260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grep /wrapper/
< 1320958876 813310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc: error: a C finalizer called back into Haskell.
< 1320958876 941807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :   This was previously allowed, but is disallowed in GHC 6.10.2 and later.
< 1320958876 995662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :   To create finalizers that may call back into Haskell, use
< 1320958876 995980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Foreign.Concurrent.newForeignPtr instead of Foreign.newForeignPtr.
< 1320958877 964493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swoot
< 1320959038 31039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But yes, all that's perfectly standard apart from my maybe-broken finaliser
< 1320959185 846656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit America, stop worrying me with your absurdly terrible job market.
< 1320959219 350671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Actually no, my code is perfectly fine, GHC just disallows it for performance reasons :)
< 1320959226 639839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just worry about italy instead
< 1320959232 264625 :songhead95!4a68a59d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.104.165.157 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320959242 811678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi songhead95!
< 1320959244 750321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote rotting sea life
< 1320959246 737267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a wasp.
< 1320959246 790287 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my pillow.
< 1320959246 790442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advice?
< 1320959246 882907 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :99)  think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat
< 1320959252 591768 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep.
< 1320959258 59970 :songhead95!4a68a59d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.104.165.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love
< 1320959263 743485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep on it
< 1320959265 441372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh; Italy doesn't blend with my perception of things like the US does.
< 1320959272 88259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, magma.
< 1320959273 982519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Friendship wasp
< 1320959288 455434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: empty glass
< 1320959312 393095 :songhead95!4a68a59d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.104.165.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might somebody be able to tell me why my should-be brainfuck interpreter doesn't interpret brainfuck?
< 1320959316 318454 :songhead95!4a68a59d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.104.165.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/5QhHSfA0
< 1320959322 913527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+something to slide between
< 1320959337 184037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no that is not in the spirit of friendship
< 1320959348 698130 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I waved my pillow around outside my window for a bit
< 1320959354 511296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: i note that you don't have any code to handle [
< 1320959357 853466 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not on my pillow anymore
< 1320959358 776374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :animal friendship: animal husbandry for the 21st century
< 1320959360 180106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: what about when you hit [ and the cell is 0?
< 1320959423 124794 :songhead95!4a68a59d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.104.165.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh whoops
< 1320959446 17164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, Oracle are alleging that Google copied which classes inherit from which other classes
< 1320959453 472067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320959493 148720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : According to Oracle’s java.util API specification, the Hashtable class is a subclass of Dictionary, and implements three interfaces: Serializable, Cloneable, and Map, which are found in the java.lang, java.io, and java.util packages, respectively. This organization is hardly intuitive or preordained, but Google copied it. Android’s Hashtable class is likewise a subclass of Dictionary, and implements the same three interfaces, with the
< 1320959494 642060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same three names, found in the same three corresponding Android packages.
< 1320959576 133315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, Hexham beat Stobswood 8 2
< 1320959581 580268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it is done: http://hpaste.org/53881
< 1320959587 701812 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a moment 'till I find out what sport
< 1320959604 594037 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320959617 291819 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1320959619 752940 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Football.
< 1320959820 491279 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320960431 723752 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Where's Stobswood?
< 1320960533 620200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really exist, they just made it up to make the hexhammers feel better about their football team.
< 1320960661 126592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: morpeth, apparently
< 1320960664 763294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/maps/vt/data=Ay5GWBeob_WIPLDYoIWcfVXxvZu9XwJ55OX7Ag,C5cdt2A5CfGdk67NP3fQV7xwKKLsYcHz8F-9A1U08Az-t3JBJy4hche_-np_WGhzG-UwL4AZsYR5Ig
< 1320960667 761221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow they found the most boring place
< 1320960680 607271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widdrington_Station_and_Stobswood population 120
< 1320960921 862430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  According to Oracle’s java.util API specification [...] <-- are they complaining about google following the spec?
< 1320960937 754210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1320960941 93691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why!?
< 1320960958 559418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :money
< 1320960970 349675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1320961022 419617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're complaining about Google copying parts of the spec, whilst not implementing others
< 1320961039 857320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, they're alleging copyright infringement of the Java API
< 1320961045 954917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, dragonborn (which iirc show up in D&D?, and now also in Skyrim) make little sense
< 1320961050 360111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually think about it
< 1320961056 490480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the arguing that's going on is about whether this is a meaningful concept or not
< 1320961066 774590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a D&D4 thing, I think; probably from a D&D3 splatbook
< 1320961067 920750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that genetically it wouldn't work either
< 1320961078 289642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fantasy: genetically accurate
< 1320961099 59031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but also think what it means. Some human did what with a dragon!?
< 1320961113 620468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in D&D, dragons can shapechange at will
< 1320961122 848812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it happens while the dragon is in human form
< 1320961123 400713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1320961127 778818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1320961131 167008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It would be more unrealistic to /not/ have that happen!
< 1320961159 349964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yes if you /had/ the concept of dragonborn you need something like that.
< 1320961175 451936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm questioning the whole concept as it were
< 1320961177 511882 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320962054 609767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on the iwc forum pointed out that tomorrow's iwc rerun will be no. 11, and appear at 11:11 MET 11/11/11
< 1320962094 702683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320962104 790332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you know: you'll be over 50 once iwc finishes rerunning
< 1320962115 771992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1320962150 523486 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320962397 649630 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320962455 641003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1320962777 749757 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320962784 781753 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320962793 444474 :airells!~as@bnm195.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320962800 808299 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD NEWS, ESOLANGERS!
< 1320962808 974850 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done some work on XSLT S and K
< 1320962814 230764 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT WORKS FOR ONE ITERATION
< 1320962825 14586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY
< 1320962826 274555 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can turn SKKx to Kx(Kx)
< 1320962832 190981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine worked for one iteration, too.
< 1320963494 158895 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C0C1.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320963836 54487 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320963940 718330 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320964176 644735 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320964219 980754 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320964245 792259 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320964363 607849 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320964706 681458 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320964902 250863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result!
< 1320964913 681206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hopelessly confused someone in #Philosopher!
< 1320964923 450225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :STRIKE ONE FOR ESOLANGS
< 1320965047 414110 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320965060 347274 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how?
< 1320965096 130858 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't //app[./*[position()=1]/*[position()=1 and self::k] or ./*[position()=1]/*[position()=1]/*[position()=1 and self::s]] work?
< 1320965116 247359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs Sut-Heb
< 1320965127 51671 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25178
< 1320965129 381790 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot?
< 1320965129 860070 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: language files code comment comment blank total iirc) are *evil*
< 1320965137 833425 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I'm all bold
< 1320965138 419569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh my god.
< 1320965141 670643 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, so is Philosopher a Brainfuck derivative? lol
< 1320965141 790323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you;ll be brainfucked you stick around long enough
< 1320965141 843063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So is that a yes?
< 1320965141 843248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well thats if you stimulaed by the esoteric arts
< 1320965141 843353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if not then you'll just think where out of our mindzx
< 1320965142 143205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yesyesyes but is it a Brainfuck derivative/
< 1320965142 265011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That guy's been in here too.
< 1320965144 163683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so what borught you here?
< 1320965146 197798 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : A desire to purge all Brainfuck derivatives.
< 1320965148 245554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am like the Terminator except more so.
< 1320965149 326138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's literally a refugee for stupid #esotericers.
< 1320965150 190355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : brainfuck derivitive's what do you mean by that
< 1320965160 233250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop flooding you idiot Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover BOTH THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN IN HERE BEFORE
< 1320965161 449204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S AMAZING
< 1320965175 150259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Object_(programming_language)
< 1320965176 288113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES
< 1320965181 552321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE SURROUND THEM
< 1320965184 991762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good news and bad news
< 1320965198 794436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good news is that it's not obviously a BF deriv
< 1320965201 389172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good news: we have two places to send people who come here for the wrong reasons
< 1320965206 173367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bad news: they're both awful
< 1320965225 633485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bad news is, well just look at it
< 1320965246 790049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least the syntax highlighting is pretty
< 1320965262 635463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: article violates two policies
< 1320965265 61421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the least
< 1320965265 878042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unsure whether that's syntax highlighting or part of the source
< 1320965269 202087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell what they are?
< 1320965270 522727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the other one?
< 1320965274 49805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1320965274 658198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the first one?
< 1320965276 979752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :userpage link, category?
< 1320965278 982847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320965281 19052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the userpage pothole
< 1320965289 789547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also not linked from anywhere it should be
< 1320965298 210346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good thing about Graue's rules is, they're really good at annoying people
< 1320965303 126631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when they're stupid rules
< 1320965303 443251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's not enough information to figure out how to categorise it
< 1320965316 142357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually like the no-userspace-potholes rule
< 1320965330 9311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's reasoanble enough.
< 1320965332 503723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for the cats rule, if it gets rid of articles like that I can live with the false positives ;P
< 1320965345 221203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no unauthorised cats
< 1320965347 967078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will not be fed
< 1320965404 995292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote matrix of solidity
< 1320965407 79832 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :301)  enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
< 1320965419 73957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What has he said after not gbeating around the bush.
< 1320965423 323410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have an esolang based on the matrix of solidity concept yet?
< 1320965431 772431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing.
< 1320965435 351375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1320965446 456308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it would inevitably fail to live up to expectations
< 1320965464 759794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The esolang... is us.
< 1320965472 309166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's IRP, isn't it?
< 1320965484 497083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that esolang is certain parts of us projected onto the internet.
< 1320965487 670684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The matrix of solidity is literally us.
< 1320965524 946232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh dear, Cocytus has /msg'd me.
< 1320965528 280247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid to check the tab.
< 1320965553 962533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it's okay, a mentality is transcendent.
< 1320965570 617204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Freenode is the most reliable network for IRC and the most secure." -- http://www.esotericphilosopher.com/chat/
< 1320965578 241969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you say...
< 1320965600 452871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, could you delete [[User:Ehird/sandbox]]?
< 1320965647 668578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: after making sure you aren't burying the history of something, yes
< 1320965652 747081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody tell Timwi about the Symbol of the Day.
< 1320965662 364619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hermitian matrix of solidity
< 1320965663 656075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Damn!
< 1320965682 439780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for elliott to come to a realisation
< 1320965731 132998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleted, anyway
< 1320965748 423855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what was it?
< 1320965760 762794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What realisation? That wasn't damning you.
< 1320965764 609467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was just damning... the empty string.
< 1320965768 61785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know
< 1320965772 34356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I didn't get annoyed
< 1320965774 549216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought it was amusing
< 1320965775 695114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320965777 983004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in context
< 1320965797 410479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn "you"
< 1320965801 174871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the string, that is.
< 1320965825 231206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a bizarre operation
< 1320965831 558492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn damning.
< 1320965835 990977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And damn damnation.
< 1320965838 16097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And damn "damn".
< 1320965842 815495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn you!
< 1320965844 924883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1320965850 615242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :jean claude van damn
< 1320965859 452604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why? that's an incredibly mean thing to do on such minor motivation
< 1320965871 776168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I thought you believed it, I'd be furious
< 1320965875 115759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is, I'm merely angry
< 1320965882 963063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, #xml should help me with my XSLT problems
< 1320965890 196330 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually angry, or theoretically angry?
< 1320965897 252804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone fear the hoover damn
< 1320965902 843802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: actually, believe it or not
< 1320965951 318482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's an awful lot of effort to go to for the sake of being quirky.
< 1320965961 44139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anger takes /effort/?
< 1320965965 421882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's suppressing anger that takes effort
< 1320965969 976614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when people say such mean things
< 1320965982 227135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover discovers that not everybody shares his value system.
< 1320965990 371609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're forcibly ignoring about three different aspects of standard human communication.
< 1320966029 935711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: people using words with meanings other than their actual meanings confuses me, to some extent
< 1320966039 191781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because communication makes no sense if people do it too often
< 1320966040 968097 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we pester #philosophy
< 1320966042 46971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, butterfly
< 1320966054 718278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: we've done that before
< 1320966058 162222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all boring
< 1320966070 652422 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww
< 1320966142 910199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320966143 899067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320966162 904730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: god says he's taking it back on behalf of ph, btw
< 1320966273 626289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, I just read a usenet post by "alex23" in rec.games.roguelike.development convinced you wrote it
< 1320966288 839000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wondering why it was so bizarrely out-of-character
< 1320966288 906316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't
< 1320966457 154956 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1320966457 415320 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320966526 501070 :airells!~as@bnm195.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl PART :#esoteric
< 1320966547 825916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def ping ul (pong!)S
< 1320966548 57034 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined.
< 1320966551 122708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1320966552 642462 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1320966557 212916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320966566 383202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
< 1320966567 111892 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping installed.
< 1320966568 309300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320966580 384318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1320966597 182586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp ping
< 1320966597 535164 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping deleted.
< 1320966604 920830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ping c (
< 1320966605 278209 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping installed.
< 1320966606 169890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320966609 247078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320966612 337174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ?
< 1320966629 659266 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320966670 286581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ping
< 1320966670 405628 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong!
< 1320966687 243119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^def ping ul (pong!)S
< 1320966688 224924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: EgoBot's interpreters haven't worked for weeks
< 1320966693 478830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *sigh*
< 1320966695 670732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp ping
< 1320966696 54456 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping deleted.
< 1320966701 762431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
< 1320966702 114396 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping installed.
< 1320966703 399926 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320966707 516076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll work when they do
< 1320966716 807834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp ping
< 1320966717 154048 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping deleted.
< 1320966718 694585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ping c puts("Pong.");
< 1320966719 84093 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping installed.
< 1320966719 671905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too happy
< 1320966726 813401 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320966771 983909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("Pong!");
< 1320966814 556093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show ping
< 1320966835 981324 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320966843 364311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1320966843 754116 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help .
< 1320966857 655386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps
< 1320966858 8657 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
< 1320966881 499551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show swedeesh
< 1320966895 288879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1320966895 523395 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez
< 1320966904 410740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show svedeesh
< 1320966934 574408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow show doesn't work though the rest of those special commands do
< 1320966947 860474 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show numberwang
< 1320966973 969236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does !show actually do anything at all?
< 1320966987 193838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show source
< 1320966987 635476 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S
< 1320966992 790366 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!commands
< 1320966994 121479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's supposed to show the source of a userinterpreter
< 1320967005 25264 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!showinterp svedeesh
< 1320967012 849653 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show reverse
< 1320967018 142830 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrug
< 1320967021 962570 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!svedeesh
< 1320967033 79496 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!reverse test
< 1320967035 941401 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um
< 1320967054 573931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: those don't work.
< 1320967067 991443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only some special commands do
< 1320967210 925357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, Pegasus made another page with the same policy violations
< 1320967225 807668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else go fix them, so they won't think it's just me on a mad crusade against them
< 1320967238 557054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Parnassus Programming Language (2007, by Erick Atencio) is a programming language with features that other languages never had before. It is based on the When instruction, that allows to run a procedure in the moment an event happen.
< 1320967244 872781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: propose for deletion, not an esolang
< 1320967249 380794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :event-based programming is a well-known concept
< 1320967257 136124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the examples shown have no esoteric features whatsoever
< 1320967258 697260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even syntax
< 1320967270 539470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from using the terrible whitesmiths indentation style
< 1320967476 260396 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these new languages....
< 1320967486 271294 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is every language bad
< 1320967490 892840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the good ones
< 1320967499 13155 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares about those
< 1320967504 567980 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because mediocrity sucks
< 1320967507 721593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he just dropped another one
< 1320967513 940839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you block him for spamming?
< 1320967519 530131 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh what
< 1320967532 36051 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with this guy
< 1320967535 521324 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category: Impossible Programming Inc
< 1320967536 370781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the thing is, I'm not convinced it's spam or off-topic
< 1320967541 25526 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :banned for category
< 1320967542 552112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's a clear policy violation
< 1320967548 279228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should each clean up one page at a time
< 1320967550 644431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until he gets the point
< 1320967554 82463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different person on each page
< 1320967576 742250 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take Parnassus
< 1320967590 745755 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you explain how you mean clean up
< 1320967612 325968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Parnassus
< 1320967621 342558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many !votes do we need for deletion? :P
< 1320967635 703112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: fix the userspace pothole, fix the categories
< 1320967649 286366 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :shylock
< 1320967651 572151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: technically only one, but that means it gets deleted after about 10 years if anyone still cares by then
< 1320967657 950097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more support for deletion, the faster it gets deleted
< 1320967659 223315 :shylock!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1320967693 849918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm antilooking forward to [[Hera Runtime]], anyway
< 1320967696 774659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User_talk:Pegasus
< 1320967728 639762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [[Hebe Script]] is quite uncontroversially offtopic, methinks
< 1320967740 18651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Not Even FURscript
< 1320967747 876751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... a language
< 1320967747 929194 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even snack
< 1320967758 552862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my brain's having problems reading it
< 1320967762 354221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just mentally filters the page out
< 1320967765 870934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say?
< 1320967770 922989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hebe Script is a simple scripting language that allows for the creation of little applets for the Hera Runtime. t has the CommonSystem library preloaded, and it does not have a App object, so it does not need a "When app.run = True" main method.
< 1320967770 975776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[edit]How to copy a file to the floopy disk
< 1320967770 975960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if get DiskSpace with "a:\";or "b:\"
< 1320967770 976068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Higher Than FileSize with PublicArg-1
< 1320967771 389675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     call CopyFile with PublicArg-1 with (get IsAvailable with "a:\";or "b:\")
< 1320967773 345755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     End
< 1320967775 414324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :   End
< 1320967777 328017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PublicArg are the parameters that the script received.
< 1320967779 856818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ties in with Parnassus
< 1320967781 87067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems
< 1320967790 453261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fun fact: there's a syntax-highlighted comment on [[Parnassus]]
< 1320967792 441833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just almost invisible
< 1320967792 621918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I can't read it even when you post it, it's just that bland
< 1320967807 918868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I noticed, I read the source of pages before the pages themselves
< 1320967814 101007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple anti-goatse trick
< 1320967855 738936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to figure out how much he values Ryan North sketches of T-Rex with a hat on
< 1320967874 189180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thinking about buying one, or about selling one?
< 1320967880 579151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, buying
< 1320967913 380170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite difficult to estimate, as I get to pick from a large but finite set of unknown elements
< 1320967916 895910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If i = ( 4; or 2; or 1)
< 1320967928 272310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not so unreasonable, Perl 6 has that
< 1320967929 316356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Icon
< 1320967933 254113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the syntax is wow
< 1320967937 179934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Perl 6 has it, but its syntax is much saner
< 1320967947 229575 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw somebody wearing an xkcd shirt today
< 1320967948 898203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call write:string With const "The number is two, four or eleven"
< 1320967951 790514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me that's not a typo
< 1320967969 480699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what typo?
< 1320967971 957888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did you run away
< 1320967984 840532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ( 4; or 2; or 1) versus "two, four or eleven"
< 1320967989 222178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320967992 99660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's ESOTERIC!!!
< 1320968016 58132 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, he hadn't actually heard of xkcd
< 1320968021 696549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1320968038 523720 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did a frend give it to him as present
< 1320968039 558497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /some/ xkcds are good…
< 1320968048 688924 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, exactly
< 1320968050 753685 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the one with the arrow
< 1320968067 859250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but to wear an xkcd shirt in late 2011, well after the average quality of xkcd sunk from far above average to so, so below average?
< 1320968090 33783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it might still be an xkcd shirt of a good xkcd
< 1320968103 638394 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know enough about xkcd to know to and how to avoid xkcd shirts, but it doesn't matter anyway, because I refuse to wear anything but plain shirts
< 1320968120 856338 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a Homestuck shirt
< 1320968128 217678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just checked, all the xkcd shirts suck :)
< 1320968131 598682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION objective
< 1320968143 157160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which in your opinion is the least sucky?
< 1320968149 125181 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning on getting an IWC shirt
< 1320968153 477631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can see how bad even the least sucky is for myself
< 1320968162 110821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/athletic_square_0.jpg, as it's impossible for the internet to run down into oblivion :)
< 1320968185 897888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/woodpecker_300.png isn't bad
< 1320968202 339675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woodpecker is harder to associate with xkcd
< 1320968209 701924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have new messages (last change).
< 1320968210 368139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1320968213 580470 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1320968216 853044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: defend me from pegasus if he cyberbullies me pls ;_;
< 1320968226 330069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no he was nice
< 1320968231 391431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to feel slightly guilty about being a jerk
< 1320968231 695477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm about to go home
< 1320968237 398413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally cannot win!!
< 1320968245 641542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear people: don't talk to me; love, elliott
< 1320968260 591172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your favourite hat????
< 1320968269 113158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rated on pure... hattiness
< 1320968280 168885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bowler hat, I think
< 1320968286 767238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's particularly hatty
< 1320968287 935320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, elliott is feeling misanthropic; let's shower him with love
< 1320968293 89703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classy! But: Classy for a T-Rex???
< 1320968299 225115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, xkcd 970 is actually mildly insightful
< 1320968305 502194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, not actually /amusing/)
< 1320968320 63636 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oerjan: AND I REFUSE TO FIX THEM MUAHAHAHAHHA
< 1320968339 220864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but but ;_;
< 1320968363 33418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the heck did it break, anyway
< 1320968367 199208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, that convinced me to archive binge from there to the latest xkcd
< 1320968370 927172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I regret having read 972
< 1320968380 43163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1320968388 950751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott masochist
< 1320968402 117499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's about five comics :P
< 1320968406 614345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow 972 is bad
< 1320968436 768382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to sue him over 974, those @ design documents are classified
< 1320968491 965199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, bad comic saved by funny comment from a viewer
< 1320968503 942264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Hats are complicated.
< 1320968504 778874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1320968506 172044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that sounded worryingly Vorpalish, and I don't know why
< 1320968516 251638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey,"
< 1320968524 705673 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : why the heck did it break, anyway // I have no idea; if I knew, I'd fix it :P
< 1320968556 971903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, are you available for hat identification services.
< 1320968636 561456 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends on whether I can actually identify the hat in question.
< 1320968642 977298 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I can't, I wasn't available.
< 1320968650 923529 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320968668 214783 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pong
< 1320968674 632179 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp ping
< 1320968675 172222 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping deleted.
< 1320968682 472470 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
< 1320968682 674172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Feather-based hat identification services.
< 1320968683 265936 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ping installed.
< 1320968686 79087 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320968696 316357 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Errr ... identification based on feathers makes little sense.
< 1320968698 422887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm ...
< 1320968700 275044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts a feather in Gregor's cap
< 1320968723 584423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Whoosh
< 1320968726 136107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps me-whoosh
< 1320968768 697151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwhoosh.
< 1320968772 414196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Welsh.
< 1320968946 241274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
< 1320968946 744243 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for ping!
< 1320968960 799704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just checking if it's actually there :P)
< 1320968969 612513 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("Pong!")
< 1320968992 551372 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320969001 699830 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the problem
< 1320969003 142484 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969006 771779 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just disco'd it :P
< 1320969038 543447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("Pong!")
< 1320969061 874905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320969071 658470 :elliott!elliott@95.149.230.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969079 23971 :elliott!elliott@95.149.230.3 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320969079 76760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969116 677641 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable HAHA WHOOPS
< 1320969146 584016 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
> 1320969193 639924 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969193 685742 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969193 908937 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969195 296409 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969205 209544 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969212 137894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb
< 1320969248 679478 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SAW NOTHING
< 1320969264 701446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1320969266 746036 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong!
< 1320969268 747475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i definitely saw no glogbackup
< 1320969278 795848 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I saw that too >_>
< 1320969280 728550 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which distresses me.
< 1320969289 796121 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, who's bright idea was it to make "xml" an invalid name for xsl:processing instuction?
< 1320969319 417043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!svedeesh We are working again!
< 1320969319 956369 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fe-a-a ire-a-a foorkeeng igeeee!  Bork Bork Bork!  Bork Bork Bork!  Bork Bork Bork!
< 1320969364 555463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
< 1320969364 709644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
< 1320969364 755151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : rip
< 1320969364 755369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the whole Gregor empire collapsed
< 1320969364 755472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* glogbot (foobar@codu.org) has joined #esoteric
< 1320969365 613721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what
< 1320969368 508459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glegbutt missed
< 1320969406 671345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so was the process table entirely full, or something?
< 1320969423 115787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320969458 500525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :init schemes always seem so ridiculously complicated to me.
< 1320969483 492391 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, systemd... upstart... Holy crap, Debian dynamically creates a makefile for it...
< 1320969610 315045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DAILY REMINDER THAT KITTEN'S SERVICE MANAGEMENT SOLUTION IS THE BEST???
< 1320969686 929870 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's fixed but the only way I can test it is to kill glogbot :P
< 1320969749 230637 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, never mind, I could make it react to something else as if it was glogbot quitting.
< 1320969790 608206 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320969798 495337 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At a minimum, it can't be worse than what's common.
< 1320969819 647473 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320969823 675232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has any sort of intelligence at all in its design, that is. :P
< 1320969823 779021 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320969829 551899 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello glogbackup!
< 1320969834 709680 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your services will not be necessary thank you.
< 1320969860 659305 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can anyone tell me why I should have to wait for every single daemon ever to start before getties spawn?
< 1320969893 585660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320969912 995060 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric
< 1320969941 931336 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out my dead-man's switch had a bug, it wouldn't set properly when codu came BACK :(
< 1320969976 320561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the man somehow stayed dead
< 1320969981 143326 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could understand waiting until *certain* daemons spawn for getties to start, but every single damned one?
< 1320969996 445288 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I genuinely don't need to wait for e.g. apached to start before I log in.
< 1320970007 512771 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, just apache.
< 1320970011 248674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you ever actually merged glogbackup locks in
< 1320970017 716515 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haven't even implemented it :P
< 1320970030 217157 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it's nice to know they may or may not be there if I do or do not need them!
< 1320970092 596288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1320970216 594753 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320970977 686996 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320971049 983745 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320971117 721757 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6de9.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320971161 932671 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320971357 746698 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e785.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320971710 252700 :ive!~nn@189.179.243.32 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1320971875 399238 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320972239 908827 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:32 < ais523> CakeProphet: "you" = ?
< 1320972253 340353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :context?
< 1320972255 789104 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, he's not here.
< 1320973215 924746 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nini~
< 1320973349 690548 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e785.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320973494 553799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320976236 702141 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320976567 349239 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320976595 815875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1320976716 917418 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the Topic ?
< 1320976728 309837 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320976745 921938 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320976779 767100 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :did some progress on the definition only language :D
< 1320976810 905019 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a human Forth-language ?
< 1320976829 926259 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I'm not sure which language it's the most like
< 1320976832 812418 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a cpu-oriented one..
< 1320976845 76635 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your no programmer
< 1320976847 801717 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are 5 constructs
< 1320976848 699539 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me guesses
< 1320976855 164078 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION figures
< 1320976879 683582 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- variables and multidimensional variable array
< 1320976880 540170 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1320976902 695421 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you reinvented Forth with variables..
< 1320976913 889173 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I inform chuck ?
< 1320976921 699112 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- iterators/expression only variables
< 1320976956 626903 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- litterals/immediates (ex: 5, 'a')
< 1320976973 959240 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its a programming language, u had just reinvented Forth !
< 1320976981 903600 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( as was foretold )
< 1320976987 703488 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( by the fathers )
< 1320976987 794831 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- comparators (=, !=, < >, <=, >=)
< 1320977003 203207 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- math operators (+ - * /)
< 1320977005 895746 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elders, my mistake
< 1320977017 274373 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it using reverse-polish math ?
< 1320977024 672092 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's prefix
< 1320977032 544638 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so forwards-polish :D
< 1320977032 689422 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prefix-forth
< 1320977043 236529 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was someone working on it
< 1320977055 21032 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways there's no stack
< 1320977055 550845 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his name was john
< 1320977063 117742 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't be forth
< 1320977082 771558 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to use stacks somewhat
< 1320977103 299312 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i get it
< 1320977110 976191 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming languages
< 1320977115 704366 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- there's no defined execution order: statements are to be executed in any order, any number of times
< 1320977118 518571 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fav !!!!!!!!!1
< 1320977129 739524 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1320977138 714587 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the fucked-up psycho ones
< 1320977143 877387 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320977148 962993 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about unlambda
< 1320977159 536435 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the useful ones.
< 1320977171 845261 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- variables can only be defined. they can never be undefined
< 1320977173 21161 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like my own version of brainfuck
< 1320977177 387382 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320977190 15327 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a very minimal brainfuck with some good ideas
< 1320977199 595677 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is only one value that variables can have: true
< 1320977213 238845 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a joke langauge
< 1320977221 848755 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's actually turing complete
< 1320977255 590813 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't pass turing if all variables have only one value
< 1320977295 393753 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the "iterator" values can have any integer value
< 1320977302 83372 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :including over 2^32
< 1320977315 445166 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're only valid inside the statement
< 1320977329 493204 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that a value can be true, or undefined
< 1320977374 853657 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to work on a language, its something that wud at least interest someone
< 1320977375 533534 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you can make an array, you can make a numerical variable by making an array and only defining one of the values
< 1320977411 622435 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I do a language I'm trying to come up with a new, mind expanding paradigm :D
< 1320977433 17661 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320977448 970857 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to define the variable "toto" to 5, you would go
< 1320977451 30457 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :toto 5
< 1320977468 942297 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres nothing to learn after Forth and LISP, and AOP, and.. oh.. i guess your right..
< 1320977487 538384 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually means if(true) { toto[5] = true }
< 1320977510 601548 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do varz = varx + vary, you would go
< 1320977513 292018 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer my mix of C/Forth/With-LISP-Macros wud be the best
< 1320977533 252157 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :varz z varx x vary y = z + x y
< 1320977543 14008 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this actually means
< 1320977567 898935 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se QUIT :Quit: Lmnar
< 1320977570 184320 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its too late for me to try and comprehend what ur trying to code there
< 1320977583 93260 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am the only hacker in here, so..
< 1320977594 827284 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one listening..
< 1320977595 722768 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (varx[x] && vary[y] && x+y==z) varz[z] = true
< 1320977637 986794 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, it's really neat because it's turing complete despite the fact that variables can't ever change (!) and it has no program flow (!!)
< 1320977655 557043 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you the one spending time on breaking cryptographic codes and such ?
< 1320977663 422275 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the ones ?
< 1320977669 362224 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bunch of statements that define a variable (to true) if its conditions are true
< 1320977674 896175 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. pkzip. Any relation to Phil Katz?
< 1320977692 114872 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: actually no, I'm a sound coder irl
< 1320977695 605888 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip is the old dos zipping
< 1320977705 859412 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i kinda hate it now
< 1320977707 1926 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :7z is better
< 1320977712 450472 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Phil Katz' ZIP. :)
< 1320977713 34947 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was super-cool in the 90s
< 1320977734 174765 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound coder
< 1320977734 658652 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar(1) is, of course, better. But hey.
< 1320977768 748410 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me why linux can't use the features that device-driver writers wrote into their drivers ?
< 1320977785 505767 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows drivers
< 1320977809 877594 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the same Windows/API/MFC code
< 1320977810 422915 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder how I'm going to garbage collect my language... seems hard :D
< 1320977812 313357 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because in order to do that you'd basically have to have a clone of substantial portions of Windows in Linux.
< 1320977829 793958 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't impossible, but it's *insanely* hard.
< 1320977858 381684 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't they just translate the code they already .. oh wait.. its close-code
< 1320977864 787611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically much easier to go ahead and reverse-engineer the sound cards, and thereby get native Linux drivers.
< 1320977867 20208 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not open-source ?
< 1320977867 789596 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1320977874 703115 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows drivers aren't.
< 1320977879 667870 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux drivers are.
< 1320977900 319715 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone use sound card driver features ever anyways
< 1320977905 295524 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all too often the Linux drivers are written without any documentation available.
< 1320977910 525985 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the same companies that give those drivers to Linux users, write it to fit Windows..
< 1320977916 631460 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put a username/password in the cabal configuration file but it won't go. Did I do it wrong?
< 1320977932 104190 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: It's actually not the sound card designers that make the drivers, usually.
< 1320977952 170194 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real-Tek sound drivers
< 1320977955 842979 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the Linux drivers for *anything* are made by someone else.
< 1320977956 581492 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound cards are all the same nowadays anyways
< 1320977961 275759 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whats its caled
< 1320977987 192791 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: is that another ac98 based system?
< 1320977994 315204 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320977999 896654 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its super-cheap
< 1320978004 181925 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good enough
< 1320978019 951411 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no it's ac97
< 1320978027 493652 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AC97 is the class of sound cards that have actual documentation available. Courtesy of being designed to a spec. :)
< 1320978036 527059 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1320978045 102574 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what bugs me
< 1320978058 735901 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get buffer streaming working they are all the same anyways :D
< 1320978068 536959 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Not *quite*.
< 1320978071 188848 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get the one silly feature they gave Windows Sound Drivers
< 1320978079 520192 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Some of them have hardware mixing.
< 1320978103 985263 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio-Effects, EQs
< 1320978104 373459 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: saves, what, 0.01% cpu? :D
< 1320978130 351588 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: news flash: on ac97 those are actually done in software, not hardware
< 1320978130 792977 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: ALSA sucks ass, and PulseAudio sucks worse; thus, hardware mixing saves much more than 0.01%. :P
< 1320978139 480587 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1320978143 459701 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: jesus
< 1320978168 722221 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It's at least to the point where it's not a *notable* performance gain any more.
< 1320978172 787802 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still sucks ass.
< 1320978205 443517 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you mess that up
< 1320978208 437788 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no echo/chipmunk effects to Linux users still ?
< 1320978213 718030 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, a multiply and addition
< 1320978234 840052 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: tbh those effects should be done by the software
< 1320978238 202028 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By having the sound done via a dozen abstraction layers.
< 1320978239 653544 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320978245 188891 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux drivers made by the actual company that makes the thing being driven: nvidia GFX, ATI GFX, Intel GFX ... and nothing else.
< 1320978257 246112 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Exaggeration :P )
< 1320978257 394273 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dumb Echo/Chipmunk/Stone-Room, etc ..
< 1320978257 552979 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: man, how many layers do you even need?
< 1320978297 164979 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost went to study sound engineering, its quite a funny story
< 1320978331 529158 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA kernel -> ALSA library -> dmix -> PulseAudio -> [...]
< 1320978332 446160 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you just bumped into it
< 1320978343 643782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mixing happens in PulseAudio and/or dmix.
< 1320978348 707462 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have you studied that from the start ?
< 1320978353 926702 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context switches are involved in that mixing.
< 1320978368 505497 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nasty
< 1320978393 782186 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320978407 930979 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, PulseAudio is entirely unnecessary, and serves largely as an expensive nop.
< 1320978409 871709 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320978436 294423 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, even worse. PulseAudio is often configured to redirect sound to it via ALSA. Giving you:
< 1320978442 122140 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop ? No-Operative/ion ?
< 1320978462 129185 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA kernel -> ALSA library -> dmix -> PulseAudio -> ALSA library -> [...]
< 1320978475 366740 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: Pretty much.
< 1320978513 430646 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right... sounds ripe for a cleanup
< 1320978540 535645 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: For comparison, here's the OSSv4 stack: OSS -> program
< 1320978564 810027 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why doesn't alsa get dumped in favor of oss?
< 1320978572 317231 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because derp.
< 1320978586 323180 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSS was dumped in favor of ALSA way back when.
< 1320978602 69703 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the in-kernel OSS sucked, and the external one was proprietary)
< 1320978618 397440 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, for audio app plugins, you should probably dump ladspa and make a linux version of VST2
< 1320978635 180949 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, I see.
< 1320978638 873310 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use faith-based sound drivers, so .. :-/
< 1320978652 479577 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1320978655 30688 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Also fun, ALSA is a Linux-specific API.
< 1320978667 279236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the other UNIXes (and I mean *all*) use OSS.
< 1320978766 402124 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the big things I see in modern UNIXes is the idea that complicated is better.
< 1320978777 2954 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, s/UNIXes/Linux distros/
< 1320978824 716686 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true for sound APIs :D
< 1320978827 988782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding more onto the heap is somehow better than actually replacing things.
< 1320978834 969193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not true for most things.
< 1320978884 524188 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sound APIs it's really just about just doing a sound callback and keeping latency as low as possible
< 1320978898 136850 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffers go out -> victoly!
< 1320978911 892349 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's especially "fun" for init schemes. It's managed to reduce /sbin/init to a program that executes a shell script and spawns getties.
< 1320978946 975316 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah sound APIs are hit or miss
< 1320978966 438999 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are nasty (OpenSL)
< 1320978987 275947 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was this OS for this latency-OCDers..
< 1320978988 800447 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSS is merely a bit strange.
< 1320979013 768494 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :open("/dev/dsp", "w"); // ...
< 1320979025 501009 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it buffering or callback oriented?
< 1320979052 478057 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buffering, I guess?
< 1320979070 820923 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To interact with it you write PCM to the device file.
< 1320979079 954825 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's buffering
< 1320979131 566780 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it handle synchronization?
< 1320979187 374393 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1320979235 604351 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest audio api I've seen is 2 function calls
< 1320979254 185379 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me.
< 1320979280 238043 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :init, and a function that pushes in a sound buffer (blocks until the sound hardware is ready to take another buffer)
< 1320979303 245641 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I'd imagine what it does is the file descriptor blocks.
< 1320979343 262862 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, actually, I'm almost positive that's what it does, considering the behavior of cat raw-pcm >/dev/dsp
< 1320979357 730441 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1320979450 158740 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would work
< 1320979498 959005 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh anything that will get you 20ms latency or less is fine :3
< 1320979599 38510 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320979638 236473 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1320979733 265830 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda wondering how to garbage collect this language... seems really hard
< 1320980106 716899 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Having no context) What about the language makes it difficult to GC?
< 1320980123 480690 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: madbr's ignorance of functional language evaluation and garbage collection. :)
< 1320980129 630075 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320980146 273474 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah basically all you do is define new variables to "true"
< 1320980160 773432 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually inside arrays
< 1320980183 639901 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot undefine variables once they are defined
< 1320980225 441430 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doing brainfuck's array actually requires a 3 dimensional array:
< 1320980251 207075 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :data[execution_step][index][value]
< 1320980322 444801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, how you index an array with only true?
< 1320980328 901273 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there other kinds of values as well?
< 1320980334 488108 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet: somple
< 1320980338 563720 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple
< 1320980368 797089 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you want to set index 45 to value 88 on step 61
< 1320980376 378913 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320980387 67735 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you simply define  data[61][88][45]
< 1320980391 259120 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as true)
< 1320980397 157131 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave the other values undefined
< 1320980400 880844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so there are integers too.
< 1320980401 808696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool.
< 1320980426 316208 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are integers but you can't actually store them :D
< 1320980479 135651 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store the value 45 by making an array and only defining the entry 45 :D
< 1320980489 402729 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1320980495 551775 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do you give a brainfuck interpreter unbounded memory.
< 1320980520 541006 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy
< 1320980609 766045 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320980610 340723 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store the size of the array, then when doing > you check if it's over the size, if yes, you define a new index with value 0 so that it can be used by subsequent execution steps
< 1320980620 72501 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :all arrays are unbounded
< 1320980682 298316 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320980733 260402 :simpleirc936!~simpleirc@c-69-137-157-92.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320980782 272127 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah it's hard to GC because the number of defined values always increases, never decreases
< 1320980785 378015 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting
< 1320980808 49096 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there has to be a way to recognize values that have become irrelevant and can be discarded
< 1320980813 329036 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know how :D
< 1320980889 310003 :simpleirc936!~simpleirc@c-69-137-157-92.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320981211 866961 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you're going to get a copy of pretty much each variale for each execution step, dunno how to prevent that
< 1320981287 787670 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndzi
< 1320981302 241748 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use bloom tables
< 1320981346 374613 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Why not similarly to a more normal language? Unreachable etc.
< 1320981355 860949 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you never get unreachabl... wait, hmm
< 1320981380 331093 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah would need to be some special kind of unreachable :
< 1320981383 362426 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320981388 920741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read up on SSA. :)
< 1320981393 515481 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still need to maintain a table of which variables were defined, even if you can't see the value
< 1320981399 777521 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm misunderstanding
< 1320981494 719639 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of the language is that any potential variable is either true or undefined
< 1320981512 763358 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so values aren't really used
< 1320981517 73716 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1320981530 142787 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does garbage collection even mean then?
< 1320981557 80843 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly it means that the set of defined variables doesn't grow indefinitely with each execution step :D
< 1320981635 948417 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the other catch with the language is that variables can't be undefined
< 1320981639 292393 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it without GC?
< 1320981659 744227 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially, to do computation, you have to keep defining new variables
< 1320981684 416262 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so.. wouldn't that make GC meaningless if this language were to be interpreted?
< 1320981705 344322 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no
< 1320981708 255660 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there scoping?
< 1320981712 747267 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1320981713 707672 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320981734 446357 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how could a name ever be unreachable, unless you're statically analyzing a file?
< 1320981734 491647 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be GC'd in some way or else the memory would just blow up
< 1320981758 215689 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm trying to figure out :D
< 1320981790 756687 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It's possible to make a language that has unavoidably bad implementations, you know
< 1320981801 100215 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not saying that that's necessarily the case here
< 1320981809 543321 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think you might want some sort of static analysis?
< 1320981822 741501 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you act AS IF variables aren't undefined, but secretly you undefine them?
< 1320981869 419042 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there has to be some way to figure out when a variable can't produce any new definitions I guess
< 1320981939 926596 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :once a variable cannot be used in the computation of new definitions, then it's effectively unreachable
< 1320982027 142701 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can thus get garbage collected
< 1320982052 250721 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure there's a way to do this without solving the halting problem though :D
< 1320982165 700553 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be harmless to fail to GC a subset of variables that are unreachable
< 1320982186 657704 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing impossible about a machine that solves the halting problem but gives false positives or false negatives
< 1320982225 706475 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof: For all turing machines, my machine outputs n
< 1320982228 249535 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Halts"
< 1320982240 880540 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1320982331 903504 :kmc_!~keegan@108.96.227.78 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320982336 24334 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doesn't solve the halting problem, does it?
< 1320982442 354037 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: essentially, the real problem is that since you can't change the state of something once it's declared, you have to create a new state on each step
< 1320982490 280071 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so typically you'll have the new state being created, and the old state, but steps before that are already unreachable
< 1320982500 758298 :kmc!~keegan@174-146-207-66.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320982509 473509 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1320982662 129233 :kmc__!~keegan@108.125.137.73 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320982872 453809 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320982879 977919 :kmc_!~keegan@108.96.227.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320982886 516180 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a recaptcha consisting of partially greek symbols
< 1320982899 579939 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up typing deltamuwhatever
< 1320982911 345804 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like a jerk
< 1320982975 366416 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Don't worry, it won't be transcribed into that.
< 1320982988 923454 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know recaptcha requires several people to enter the same thing before it counts as valid.
< 1320983242 690357 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what is needed is a way to tell from an array[x][y][z] that, say, anything before x=50 has become unreachable
< 1320983306 679468 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can only constants go in array[x][y][z]? I don't get how one does indexing
< 1320983560 618123 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language has a second sort of variables that are only valid for a particular statement
< 1320983566 585920 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that take numerical values
< 1320983599 75711 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance to add the values from varx and vary into varz, you'd go
< 1320983647 665712 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(varx[x] and vary[y] and z==x+y) define varz[z]
< 1320983664 349246 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in shorthand notation,
< 1320983709 513547 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :varx[x] vary[y] z=x+y : varz[z]
< 1320983757 405306 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x y and z take numerical values
< 1320984025 817719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320984084 354373 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320984165 883350 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320984588 33206 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some things I don't like much about the functions for WriterT, such as the contraints on the type for "tell". It is (Monoid w, Monad m) but I think it should be (Applicative m)
< 1320984620 852035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own function "mpure" is like this:  mpure :: Applicative f => w -> t -> WriterT w f t; mpure x y = WriterT $ pure (y, x);
< 1320984865 910656 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329ecd.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320985077 963439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many bijective functions of type   [a] -> [a]   are there?
< 1320985211 267418 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you restrict them to be lists of the same length n, then n!
< 1320985215 672107 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, infinitely many
< 1320985255 611648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I thought. And is it the case the output list will always be the same length as the input list?
< 1320985274 158831 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's one of the assumptions there
< 1320985286 154947 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :having duplicate elements may reduce the number of functions a bit, since you can't distinguish them
< 1320985377 63761 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true but the input could have or not have duplicate elements regardless of the function.
< 1320985406 300167 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assumption I make is that only finite lists are used. But nothing else; not even Eq class.
< 1320985549 893420 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite, then. To start with, there's the class of functions that simply duplicate the first element a fixed number of times, and do nothing on [].
< 1320985563 837361 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This *alone* gives you infinite bijections, and that's not even the entire set!
< 1320985625 639627 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please give an example?
< 1320985657 449431 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :example1 (x:xs) = x:x:xs;example1 [] = []
< 1320985671 363754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is its inverse?
< 1320985693 271496 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :example1' (x:xs) = xs;example1' [] = []
< 1320985784 621754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you can have   example1 (example1' "hello") == "eello"  I think it is not inverse
< 1320985861 769283 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm.
< 1320986048 176951 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :example1 maps from the set of lists to the set of lists that are either null or have a duplicate element at the start, and example1' maps from the set of lists that are either null or have a duplicate element at the start to the set of lists.
< 1320986059 503280 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my fault that Haskell doesn't encode this at type level.
< 1320986084 463321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. Well, then they are bijective. But then they are not bijective on the type I specified!
< 1320986108 971465 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are, your statement was just vague. :P
< 1320986134 579328 :songhead95!4a68a59d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.104.165.157 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1320986163 628248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want it to be a bijective mapping from the set of lists to the set of lists, then the maximum number of bijections is O(n!), where n is the maximum length of lists you're considering.
< 1320986183 239495 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you're considering all finite lists, then n is infinity, and there you go.
< 1320986221 405431 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why did I put O()?
< 1320987115 971803 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320989284 499832 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320989406 863023 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can WriterT be used for probability distributions?
< 1320989909 17820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it called when a group has everything being their own inverse?
< 1320990460 883600 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunch of pairs? wish I knew
< 1320990569 210989 :kmc__!~keegan@108.125.137.73 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320993284 909919 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have idea making payphones that even if inband signaling is used, can prevent redboxing. And it does not disrupt telephone calls, no secret keys are used, protocol can be public, etc. It can have three modes, red, yellow, green (and can be indiciated by LEDs of those colors). The initial mode is red.
< 1320993313 709695 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Red: Coins are accepted, keypad is enabled, microphone is disabled, commands received are accepted.
< 1320993341 302170 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Yellow: Coins are rejected, keypad is disabled, microphone is enabled, the only command accepted is to switch to red mode.
< 1320993365 157601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Green: Coins are rejected, keypad is enabled, microphone is enabled, all commands received are rejected.
< 1320993382 875910 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good?
< 1320993850 841958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320994073 672519 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320994759 405852 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320995080 32330 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320995649 734150 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320997444 760579 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320998266 888721 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Radiateur
< 1320998916 141028 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-61.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320999390 922721 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320999565 1514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320999581 147793 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster NICK :Vorpal
< 1321000865 309254 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321003024 827600 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321003048 835726 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321003311 678920 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321004118 192121 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329ecd.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321004500 438279 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321004838 244693 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321004860 638023 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321004861 142820 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321005848 150154 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321005933 608024 :someoneyouhate!~hatehate@184.19.12.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321006044 241309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321006069 66642 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1321006154 255024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321006265 520219 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321006266 997331 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321006283 119100 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321007295 137187 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321007402 273818 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321007402 623266 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321007402 668832 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321007530 618605 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38  What is it called when a group has everything being their own inverse? <-- i just saw the term "exponent 2" used on the gödel's lost letter blog
< 1321007530 890492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321008289 297601 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4f7cf.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321008503 649630 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B589.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321008861 648716 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321009728 517674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321009737 214650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321010294 355951 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id 0
< 1321010294 401472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a
< 1321010294 401639 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id 0
< 1321010294 401739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a
< 1321010317 931718 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id 0
< 1321010323 137632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1321010325 459456 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0
< 1321010328 274160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  0
< 1321010349 859374 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id 0
< 1321010357 237236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1321010376 232284 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/m7uph/whats_going_on_with_id_id_id_id_0/
< 1321010412 805996 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one gave a really good answer to why it breaks in some contexts but not others, though
< 1321010427 428232 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to say that someone finally did
< 1321010434 588215 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321010436 212934 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the form of http://codepad.org/2YrUqs1E
< 1321010452 455747 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core for a couple of id's
< 1321010491 615251 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess :t doesn't need to actually generate the code
< 1321010513 649406 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*core
< 1321010516 435637 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1321010534 767385 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id ()
< 1321010538 514689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1321010549 817115 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm () was supposed to work
< 1321010577 388560 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it may just take a longer expression to break
< 1321010616 220260 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-61.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: done
< 1321010956 487785 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must've hit the ID-ten-T error.
< 1321011008 483117 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321011039 259732 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-20.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321011573 374764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321011694 437563 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321011870 361827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321012405 846132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321012432 502345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :My impression of Skyrim so far is that it is very much designed with console in mind when it comes to the interface. Heck there are even some sliders you have to use the arrow keys for rather than the mouse. Ugh.
< 1321014834 932151 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://killscreendaily.com/articles/things-i-ate-skyrim
< 1321015248 567844 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things I ate: Skyrim.
< 1321015538 967178 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321016292 368226 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321016881 419726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321017059 228083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can someone here explain the "news at 11" meme for me? I don't get it, and knowyourmeme.com is no help
< 1321017280 231358 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's supposed to allude to ancient broadcast interruptions
< 1321017299 565451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, when a news story breaks and people are told of it interrupting an existing program
< 1321017303 709144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when to look to see more?
< 1321017307 971194 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321017344 670768 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was already a cliche when i was reading usenet back in the 90s
< 1321017347 473050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 11 specifically?
< 1321017369 589213 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably some broadcaster had its evening news then?
< 1321017528 79905 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091624/
< 1321018650 264914 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1321019640 671650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FilmAtEleven
< 1321019654 316424 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The phrase originated in the 1970s, when stations began to run teasers for the late local news during Prime Time (such as "shootout at local gas station, Film at 11.") This was often a Justified Trope at the time, since it could take hours to transport exposed 16 mm film from a remote site to the station, develop it, edit it, and add a voiceover."
< 1321019889 167431 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also from the examples: "* Particularly on the Internet, "Film at 11" has taken on an ironic meaning, equivalent to Seen It a Million Times.
< 1321019889 212843 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Imminent Death of the Net Predicted. Film at 11." — common Usenet phrase, mid 1990's."
< 1321020009 990363 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, there's a stubticle of "Film at 11" in Wikipedia, but it doesn't say much else, except the claim that 11 p.m. is/was a "traditional timeslot for local news broadcasts in the Eastern and Pacific time zones of the United States".
< 1321020017 960107 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is stubticle even a word?)
< 1321020044 803765 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an icicle made of stubble.
< 1321020087 657100 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that like the sort of beardcicles you get in cold weather, except re shorter hair? They're not much fun.
< 1321020348 122403 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4f7cf.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1321020506 644816 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321021162 861247 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't know, not having a beard or the conditions under which icicles would form on one.
< 1321021248 109251 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you catch up with Homestuck, BtW?
< 1321021267 30004 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet.
< 1321021274 810689 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure they qualify as real icicles, but below -20 (apparently that's -4 Funnyheit) moisture from exhalation tends to freeze one's beard, and it's a bit uncomfortable.
< 1321021289 483085 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did do the prequel wander-around flash.
< 1321021320 678345 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temperatures outside the 25-to-minus-5 range? What is this witchcraft?
< 1321021418 306665 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that was the best flash.
< 1321021468 537429 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Here in the south tip of Finland it doesn't really go below -10 very often, though.)
< 1321021505 521008 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4faf5.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321021627 471105 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Libertas
< 1321021633 768725 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Libertas is the first syntax-error runtime-error free programming language ever."
< 1321021640 824764 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let us disabuse the creator of this notion.
< 1321021736 901892 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: Hug~♪
< 1321022247 53722 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321022680 547595 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321022680 832717 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321022680 877992 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321023987 170217 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321024073 859746 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4faf5.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1321024089 531590 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db417e0.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321024715 684734 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321025151 522760 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4d0b714d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321025169 868676 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db417e0.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1321025184 477244 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4d0b714d.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd
< 1321025238 906152 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b714d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry for join flooding. guess its gonna be fine now
< 1321025671 173236 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, oi, fix your ident order.
< 1321026117 580098 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: ITYM:
< 1321026137 349432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net, oi, fix your ident order.
< 1321026373 714748 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321026775 388273 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321027055 220025 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: Hug~♪
< 1321027210 908236 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321027210 989853 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321027211 35544 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321027327 676537 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321027661 136474 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321027696 18162 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321028214 713119 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321028297 505218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321028301 752835 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hurt my leg today...
< 1321028331 762909 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hut... all the legs.
< 1321028465 820373 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah some moment of time of numerical signifigance in the Gregorian calendar happened
< 1321028474 676298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION celebrates.
< 1321028478 605405 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I waited for a ninth of a second.
< 1321028491 158443 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We took about ten minutes out of history to celebrate
< 1321028516 541692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy marking, I think
< 1321028528 265721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, getting ready to enter marks into a computer
< 1321028540 552224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on Friday mornings, we have eight people marking and I enter the marks in as they arrive)
< 1321028566 216739 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh
< 1321028571 829804 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schmancy system.
< 1321028600 921000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can type in the marks more than eight times faster than another person can mark the work, though, so there's quite a bit of downtime
< 1321028625 162580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't worry there's always 12/12/12
< 1321028636 606681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I worry about a coincidence of numbers?
< 1321028650 797451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, provided that you live long enough, 22:22 on 2/22/2222
< 1321028664 276214 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shh, you'll get pikhq_ going.
< 1321028665 588217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: dates don't work like that
< 1321028684 689183 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm?
< 1321028685 937293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",1<<25);
< 1321028690 383830 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :33554432
< 1321028691 288652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well yes
< 1321028691 680024 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321028693 969159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pretend
< 1321028697 978585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there aren't 22 months in a year
< 1321028698 424556 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's still February.
< 1321028718 184862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the month is at the beginning
< 1321028720 808900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^25 being 33554432 is better
< 1321028734 275626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how ridiculous
< 1321028737 405434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an American thing.
< 1321028752 118297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: that reminds me, why were you deliberately winding up an op yesterday?
< 1321028764 181447 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which op?
< 1321028770 293136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me
< 1321028770 689938 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there's 2/2/2222 AND 2/22/2222
< 1321028773 473921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooooow
< 1321028794 147352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much significance!
< 1321028799 37117 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rest assured that the up-windery was entirely independent of your oppishness.
< 1321028810 233177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK; but it's still incredibly bad form
< 1321028847 445698 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no, because I have to concentrate hard to remember that you're an op.
< 1321028862 110359 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus I was not deliberately winding up an op; it was accidental.
< 1321028862 743759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad form to deliberately wind up anyone, whether they're an op or not
< 1321028933 259773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you know how people say "November 11th, 2011"?
< 1321028937 634623 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, do people not say that where you live?
< 1321028945 19114 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say 11th of November 2011
< 1321028948 270478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "11 November 2011"
< 1321028950 718398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's where the m/d/y format comes from
< 1321028956 562841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321028959 732415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just "the 11th" if the month/year are clear from context
< 1321028966 221188 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a corruption of y/m/d
< 1321028977 236181 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which in some ways DOES MAKE SOME sense
< 1321028980 612494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an "of" that's pronounced but not generally written
< 1321028982 584891 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still WRONG
< 1321028999 992064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : amusing, there are "Quicksilver ingots" in Skyrim... How would that even work?
< 1321029005 535263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, I wasn't planning on getting the new Dinosaur Comics book.
< 1321029009 954958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(implying a correct ordering of elements in a date)
< 1321029010 182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT HAS AN N-GRAM ANALYSIS
< 1321029014 588498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST
< 1321029017 261918 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, immobilising in something else?
< 1321029027 413586 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, isn't quicksilver mercury?
< 1321029029 135399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could incorporate that in your CORPUS
< 1321029032 111536 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it?
< 1321029037 495563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: so basically, I want you to apologise
< 1321029037 542004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, yes
< 1321029044 465454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1321029060 371432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck update, Minecraft pre-release
< 1321029062 347622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, btw the Swedish name for mercury is kvicksilver. So this was obvious to me
< 1321029076 394153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No spoilers re: HS update
< 1321029087 211548 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm afraid I can't tender that request.
< 1321029088 179842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't/won't read yet
< 1321029093 232527 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is that how 'tender' works?)
< 1321029094 763917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11/11/11 - "Examine room."
< 1321029094 874497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11/11/11 - "Enter name."
< 1321029094 919808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11/11/11 - "Homestuck"
< 1321029094 919969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11/11/11 - "==>"
< 1321029094 920105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11/11/11 - "[S] ACT 6"
< 1321029095 781775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look at that.
< 1321029106 924789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Stop being an asshole for no reason.
< 1321029114 848548 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I somehow saw this coming I think.
< 1321029115 795011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: isn't tendering, in that context, the process of asking a bunch of people for quotes
< 1321029121 435606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can accept the best one and get them to subcontract?
< 1321029121 691233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So did everyone
< 1321029128 56870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a kind-of weird thing to do, really
< 1321029154 13159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:02:53:  if its a programming language, u had just reinvented Forth !
< 1321029156 281434 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover: Stop being an asshole for no reason.   <-- that's elliott's job :P
< 1321029159 675267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this pkzip guy in the logs really likes forth
< 1321029177 870409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, Forth is a language it seems vaguely possible to reinvent by mistake
< 1321029179 854801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much more than that
< 1321029204 310272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it takes slightly more reasons than "because it'll upset them" for me to offend someone :)
< 1321029207 775956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly.
< 1321029222 394672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if space aliens had programming languages (and they probably do), which of ours do you think they'd have reinvented; not counting things like syntax differences
< 1321029230 552865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:03:  oh i get it
< 1321029230 618042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:10:  esoteric programming languages
< 1321029230 663766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:15:  - there's no defined execution order: statements are to be executed in any order, any number of times
< 1321029230 663916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:18:  my fav !!!!!!!!!1
< 1321029230 664050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:29:  oh
< 1321029232 56462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:38:  i hate the fucked-up psycho ones
< 1321029234 69033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:59:  I like the useful ones.
< 1321029235 770131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this guy is really annoying
< 1321029243 604494 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who actually has had his birthday, and Christmas, ON THE SAME DAY!
< 1321029243 650432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'll estimate that just under 1 in 365 people do
< 1321029245 624449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, you might like the Nock/Urbit posts
< 1321029264 170334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: does he have his birthday and Christmas on the same day every year?
< 1321029285 335692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:06:13:  stuff like my own version of brainfuck
< 1321029287 478323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :auugh
< 1321029310 770151 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yup
< 1321029315 801545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N Libertas‎; 01:29 . . (+1,162) . . Pegasus (Talk | contribs) (New page: '''Libertas''' is the first syntax-error runtime-error free programming language ever. The interpeter will execute the instructions no matter what. =Examples= A hello world application: ...)
< 1321029319 205412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: MAKE HIM STOOOOOP
< 1321029333 891142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is at least a vaguely eso concept
< 1321029338 254327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the same as what BF does
< 1321029341 699419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's probably a bad impl of it
< 1321029347 746002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the concept isn't awful
< 1321029355 920213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Libertas
< 1321029358 626362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's really bad
< 1321029374 810051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just "make an empty object when you reference something undefined"
< 1321029381 604167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Objective-C/ does that!
< 1321029383 423623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321029385 365107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1321029390 512298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending a message to nil produces nil
< 1321029394 620482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to map undefined variables to nil
< 1321029414 776769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but the way its syntax works, you could come across fun ambiguities
< 1321029422 708779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1321029425 101365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to figure out how you output a string stored in a variable
< 1321029444 45964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the obvious syntax for that, is the same as the syntax for extending toScreen with a new property)
< 1321029448 773268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:16:08:  tell me why linux can't use the features that device-driver writers wrote into their drivers ?
< 1321029448 882703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:16:25:  Windows drivers
< 1321029448 928082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:16:49:  since the same Windows/API/MFC code
< 1321029454 922009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope this guy leaves soon
< 1321029465 266539 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What channel?
< 1321029467 750463 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, logs?
< 1321029485 820223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: randomly mentioning ndiswrapper could potentially help, or hurt
< 1321029493 676348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the logs?
< 1321029495 413354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would at least possibly have produced an amusing reaction
< 1321029495 965140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so I didn't predict any of this other stuff. Just that there will be more character introductions of that format.
< 1321029503 868646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the past tense of could
< 1321029508 682784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the same as the present tense
< 1321029513 787923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a little hard to tell them apart
< 1321029522 861087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no "coulded" or whatever in English
< 1321029532 182231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coulded :D
< 1321029544 447596 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321029557 652844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should have said "could have" there
< 1321029558 995450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought perhaps he was going to take us to the green hardboiled universe and introduce some characters or reintroduct the midnight crew or something like that.
< 1321029561 536746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, who's rajdev5089?
< 1321029564 851580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321029571 37574 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321029573 307163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to do that, but didn't know if they were new or not
< 1321029579 94897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, don't spoil me.
< 1321029592 766414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should just welcome regulars randomly, so that if a not-quite-newbie comes in and I welcome them too, it doesn't look out of place
< 1321029623 919672 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey .. someone tell me
< 1321029630 187365 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats going on here
< 1321029658 288859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: this is an IRC channel about esoteric programming languages
< 1321029664 470374 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is ais523 ?
< 1321029667 751710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am
< 1321029683 461007 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where u from
< 1321029700 492201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it matter? this is IRC, there aren't any obvious international borders here
< 1321029704 900103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HEXHAM IS NOT A COUNTRY)
< 1321029713 896711 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats mean esoteric
< 1321029721 904078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric prorgamming languages
< 1321029728 998580 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a public chat room right ?
< 1321029742 289090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: yes; but the chat rooms are all about different subjects
< 1321029753 392257 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are all here
< 1321029757 580456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you come to one that isn't about a subject you're interested in, the conversation probably won't be too interesting for you
< 1321029767 32950 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all are software professionals ?
< 1321029768 784881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, we're here because we share a common interest
< 1321029783 858509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some definition of professional
< 1321029786 879234 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely not a software professional
< 1321029801 166819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, my job involves at least some programming, does that count?
< 1321029813 554478 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorta a software... person who's not even very good at pretending to be any good at programming
< 1321029815 561227 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then who are you people.... u said its a programming language
< 1321029826 543246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're software amateurs
< 1321029841 31926 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amateurs mean ?
< 1321029851 241256 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who do things for entertainment
< 1321029853 562026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amateur
< 1321029868 855488 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amateur mean sexy ?
< 1321029875 117536 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right ?
< 1321029877 379236 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not especially
< 1321029888 94466 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many people are here ?
< 1321029897 612254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this channel is for software sexies.
< 1321029899 895567 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → other things.
< 1321029900 848599 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321029909 891099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: 55, including you
< 1321029920 263231 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont we do personal chat here
< 1321029942 611239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what you mean by personal :P
< 1321029953 550383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: do you work on Firefox?
< 1321029955 525413 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one to one chat
< 1321029969 612560 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a public chat here
< 1321029994 622498 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i see you people here
< 1321030003 553090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we're mostly invisible
< 1321030006 941297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually a stream of bist
< 1321030008 264688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits
< 1321030010 414144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live inside computer
< 1321030017 195476 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1321030022 778385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity!
< 1321030028 758409 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how u live inside computer
< 1321030043 470227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a "software professional"
< 1321030044 941289 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's an AI
< 1321030045 288433 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell about you ais523
< 1321030047 700287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: you have to build yourself a matrix of all your hopes and dreams, scan your brain into it, and that locks you in
< 1321030065 823421 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot?
< 1321030071 551739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is dead?!
< 1321030072 193722 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fungot...
< 1321030075 230817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1321030088 731557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I was about to ping fungot too, but it wasn't here
< 1321030090 426542 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which country u belong to
< 1321030091 885558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logs
< 1321030093 646455 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found
< 1321030096 354988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log
< 1321030098 627542 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-31.txt:10:43:42:  learn to `on`
< 1321030107 444436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: i actually flow all over the internet, i'm an AI worm
< 1321030115 464467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I'm in at least 8 continents
< 1321030129 640695 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Australian currently resident in Canada
< 1321030132 884692 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur real name elliot ?
< 1321030146 162995 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott.exe
< 1321030147 30955 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is ngevd ?
< 1321030152 465113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me
< 1321030161 201231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I run on @!
< 1321030161 978886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: you're from Bangalore, India, or at least somewhere nearby
< 1321030170 503124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omg hax
< 1321030177 652633 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...
< 1321030183 211536 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i m in banglore
< 1321030192 995367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why do you need to ask us where we live, when it's typically easy to find out?
< 1321030204 768225 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how u people know that i m from banglore
< 1321030210 557318 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to see ?
< 1321030217 410409 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we know the secret
< 1321030229 540782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: Because of the Cameras.
< 1321030230 218039 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me .. i will also find
< 1321030243 181776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god guys
< 1321030245 693598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, is gone.
< 1321030252 547594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION freaks the fuck out.
< 1321030257 167171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a frightened weasel.
< 1321030283 124349 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me yar
< 1321030296 577660 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what infirmation u know about me
< 1321030327 245661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the information.
< 1321030335 422395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCANNING VICINITY...
< 1321030339 907110 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else
< 1321030341 142155 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: you like the color purple.
< 1321030358 656377 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes cakeprophet
< 1321030384 911750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: Your name... is rajdev5089.
< 1321030393 234079 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1321030437 470792 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says in a cryptic voice, "your name is not registered to services."
< 1321030458 596480 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says in a hollow voice, "Fool."
< 1321030483 634918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: YOU Broadband & Cable India Ltd. is dedicated to your safety.
< 1321030506 315436 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ur saying elliot ?
< 1321030520 22610 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand you elliot
< 1321030572 594928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you misspelt his name
< 1321030577 731042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION braces
< 1321030596 122470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rajdev5089 is clearly referencing some offline user
< 1321030598 866289 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: help you are not fungot. no one is fungot. what is world at
< 1321030601 121749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log \belliot\b
< 1321030607 883821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, I typo'd "elliott" as "elliot"
< 1321030609 321518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321030611 246478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way around
< 1321030622 686093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deliberately typoing is often hard
< 1321030625 620653 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-09.txt:23:31:24:  Special thanks go to Joris Huizer, Elliot Hird, Arvid Norlander,
< 1321030630 556044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially on a word you typo often
< 1321030639 913819 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what u people saying
< 1321030644 304918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random fact: I typoed about eight times in that line)
< 1321030650 310136 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: are you a developer?
< 1321030658 221061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::#
< 1321030661 720678 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i m really mad on seeing this
< 1321030670 551134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like grrrr mad? or bhasiuhiuwehruhwer made?
< 1321030672 283816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mad
< 1321030697 787836 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone is free mean tell me clearly what happening here
< 1321030712 936213 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to use this chat room
< 1321030726 27074 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i m new here
< 1321030726 478269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: you probably don't want to use this one, as you seem to have no idea of what it's for
< 1321030735 8210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: Try #ubuntu.
< 1321030740 238107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type: /join #ubuntu
< 1321030746 845409 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321030756 273494 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u people male or female
< 1321030772 277469 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u know..... who i am ?
< 1321030811 618522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know everything, rajdev5089.
< 1321030843 105202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: never say that, you attract attention from people who actually /do/ know everything
< 1321030859 609670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1321030921 540148 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is ais523
< 1321030927 371835 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: I am a sexy sexy female software professional.
< 1321030931 669277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: the owner of this channel
< 1321030982 275307 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then who are you elliott
< 1321030993 722534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am... you.
< 1321031016 437374 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is cakeprophet
< 1321031037 488549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sexy sexy female software professional
< 1321031040 952366 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :send me some private msg people
< 1321031058 998798 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is ngevd
< 1321031064 336227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngevd is hexham
< 1321031084 916988 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham mean
< 1321031087 518247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Zoe Olivier and I have for the longest time been raised by foster parents, unaware of my status as a foster child. Then one day, I realized I have the power to divine through interaction with baking magicks.
< 1321031093 103622 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is my name
< 1321031112 163823 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur male \
< 1321031121 431935 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham is male
< 1321031127 999853 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham can be either
< 1321031130 768923 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is since then that I exist in my current form, fighting the evils through divination of baked goods, and making the world a happy and good justice place for all!!!
< 1321031146 889355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: I feel compelled to point out that as an amorphous stream of bits, I have no gender.
< 1321031163 455442 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham send me private msg
< 1321031217 171125 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321031225 550021 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg rajdev5089 Hello!
< 1321031235 228129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: that isn't a private message
< 1321031237 347580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw it just fine
< 1321031250 734633 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woops
< 1321031251 414517 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired
< 1321031321 395237 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg rajdev5089 u liek girls with dicks?
< 1321031323 448119 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.
< 1321031332 541619 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1321031373 995584 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523
> 1321031374 28571 NAMES :#esoteric
< 1321031393 129487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: I suspect you're in the wrong place, and you should probably leave
< 1321031435 97595 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ais523
< 1321031443 636211 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what people discuss here
< 1321031445 285779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321031445 712228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321031446 166272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321031446 636433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321031446 985344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321031448 936158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't understand the purpose of this channel
< 1321031454 145205 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :457)  Dear eHow: Please don't assume that my toilet works like that   Or, at least, my toilet looks different
< 1321031454 231665 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :387)  I figured out something about C program. If you use ? : a lot then you don't need as much parentheses but it makes it more difficult to understand.
< 1321031471 836670 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :20)  there is plenty of room to have two heads
< 1321031471 904077 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :95)  Clearly we should be like Mumbai and get of vehicle dors.  Get of vehicle dors?  I think Aftran had a French phrase there.  Les vehicles d'or
< 1321031471 998575 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :230)  Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
< 1321031504 947524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I'm thinking 95; 20 can't be deleted because it would ruin the quotes after it
< 1321031519 184136 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is here
< 1321031522 281976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, OK; 457's good for a Sgeo quote
< 1321031530 32737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: try typing /names
< 1321031541 893812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ouch, don't say that
< 1321031546 567567 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-$
< 1321031546 888718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 95
< 1321031549 617713 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*  Clearly we should be like Mumbai and get of vehicle dors.  Get of vehicle dors?  I think Aftran had a French phrase there.  Les vehicles d'or
< 1321031549 681575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not?
< 1321031551 884179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of saying that myself, but realised why it's a really bad idea, and you should too, ideally
< 1321031558 325024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you want half the channel pinged?
< 1321031562 143293 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakepoint: ur real name
< 1321031565 151752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think you know what /names is
< 1321031587 315778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do; and I know it answers in a numeric not in-channel
< 1321031598 116679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still nonetheless stand by my statement
< 1321031600 23101 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok yar.. bye you to all
< 1321031603 575694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1321031616 381578 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last one thing
< 1321031622 657627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rajdev5089: I told you my name is Zoe Olivier the Cake Prophet
< 1321031633 347217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1321031636 492650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one ever believes me
< 1321031640 33280 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u people here talk about sexy things
< 1321031644 918014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time.
< 1321031646 960267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Haskell.
< 1321031648 879181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sexy.
< 1321031657 826078 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sexy here
< 1321031659 246349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..]
< 1321031660 71849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
< 1321031665 775689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All sexy here.
< 1321031668 106223 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of French, qu'est-ce que l'arg est?
< 1321031679 774228 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye you to all
< 1321031688 879934 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :muaaahhhhhhhhhhh
< 1321031692 54301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye you to rajdev5089
< 1321031697 116365 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life lesson for us all: http://9gag.com/gag/565257
< 1321031753 900853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1321031779 803391 :rajdev5089!~haji@123.201.208.228 PART :#esoteric
< 1321031790 918367 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship devouring
< 1321031812 497482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye raj
< 1321031830 171838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor guy. apparently really terrible at finding people to cyber with.
< 1321031832 257673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 KICK #esoteric ais523 :there are actually quite a lot of ways to deop yourself, this is one of them
< 1321031835 719935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321031877 824529 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar
< 1321031889 522657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nys
< 1321031890 950416 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello nys
< 1321031898 137612 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1321031904 521229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nys: hi rajdev5089
< 1321031908 758532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: probably untrue
< 1321031921 353112 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he was looking for some sexy pirates
< 1321031950 323217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nys: the funny thing is, from just "yar" and ":o" I had a good idea that you actually had a vague idea of what you were doing here
< 1321031958 501862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a little surprising, really, given how content-free those lines were
< 1321031969 872817 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what i'm doing here
< 1321031969 988687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat
< 1321031973 372445 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made some langs
< 1321032013 445197 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esotericf is a prestiguous group of eminent language designers.
< 1321032015 666335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f
< 1321032019 941547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ":o" is a lot more encouraging than "i dont understand you elliot"
< 1321032028 522417 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the way you rub your peg leg on my beard
< 1321032041 696173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise that nys didn't just join? :)
< 1321032050 373374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the esteemed creator the dupdog programming language.
< 1321032053 839770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: * Users on #esotericf: @elliott
< 1321032054 121398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, from the join/part layout
< 1321032055 272676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Indeed.
< 1321032066 991488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't seen him/her here before, but had guessed he/she'd been here for a while
< 1321032073 687293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, remembered so, at least
< 1321032088 290229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quite a lot of people who have been here for ages but I simply haven't noticed due to being oblivious
< 1321032105 432128 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was here once around five years ago I think
< 1321032147 424914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your name seems somehow familiar...
< 1321032147 664689 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i probsably uses the nick architect1 back tshen
< 1321032169 597016 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this nick is registered on this network
< 1321032172 114484 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not to me
< 1321032179 950064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ns ghost nys
< 1321032184 26480 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might be unintentionally impostering someone
< 1321032226 89918 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WILL THE REAL NYS PLEASE STAND UP
< 1321032235 500424 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the real nys
< 1321032241 106879 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only in a  different way
< 1321032286 907328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321032376 79455 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MYSTERIOUS
< 1321032393 966413 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says in a cryptic voice, "cryptic."
< 1321032401 548066 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi nys
< 1321032408 123428 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi you
< 1321032415 347196 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :=3
< 1321032460 882428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have called MIBBLLII WIBBLLII
< 1321032482 488234 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any esolangs that have been removed from the wiki because they were too useful?
< 1321032501 686900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1321032507 519266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being useful and being esoteric aren't mutually exclusive
< 1321032523 653822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just unlikely to find a language that does both at once
< 1321032533 747600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being eso is enough of a reason to make a language that you don't have to make it eso too)
< 1321032541 712698 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-98
< 1321032542 791919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make it useful too
< 1321032558 101688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321032563 793390 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, he's back.
< 1321032564 914777 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEAN HI
< 1321032588 767452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321032644 602331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321032646 709809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321032901 719752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I have a serious and annoying question I've been putting off all week, because I suspect the answer is "that's impossible"
< 1321032939 78180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on
< 1321032948 585582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given some code that you're treating as black-box (that is, that you can't see the internals of the code, but can run it), that you know is a sorting algorithm, is there any way to determine if it's using mergesort or not?
< 1321032958 68874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% unfoolable, but even to make a decent guess in the common case?
< 1321033029 379198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, how much of a black box is it?
< 1321033043 41447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it's a function in a pure language, you can't, because all sorting algorithms are equivalent, modulo stability
< 1321033051 11836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one I can look inside but don't really want to have to, as it'd be faster to do so by hand than write a program to do it
< 1321033053 50790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it take a comparison function, or are you forced to sort lists of integers?
< 1321033062 23141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /can/ time it, but that's just going to prove it n log n
< 1321033071 193132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean it's a Unix program, which means you can time it, which could be helpful
< 1321033071 495254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's using OCaml's built-in compare function
< 1321033075 714981 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321033079 432951 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you hadn't said "not 100% unfoolable", I would have just screamed "RIIIIIICE" at you.
< 1321033081 626438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think cannot compare two things equal unless they actually are equal
< 1321033095 395481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't use stability tricks
< 1321033097 793559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you can try and get the worst case
< 1321033105 14727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321033105 810811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it goes really slowly on pathological quicksort data, it's probably not mergesort
< 1321033114 544303 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, behold:
< 1321033114 696561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part is, it's not even mergesort in particular I'm meant to be checking for
< 1321033117 920658 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome @ elliott
< 1321033117 990304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 3mergesort
< 1321033120 269390 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321033123 518864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: out of curiosity, what /is/ this program?
< 1321033125 145364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/?
< 1321033127 2837 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/?
< 1321033130 882437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/?
< 1321033132 977454 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.813
< 1321033133 506588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like mergesort, except that you're splitting into 3 lists not 2
< 1321033147 437636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You made the change in a way I don't like, I'm rewriting it :)
< 1321033161 480088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and it's student submissions, they're meant to be marked automatically
< 1321033165 272144 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WAH WAH WAH
< 1321033174 335494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't see an automatic method for determining that they're using the right algo in the sorting question
< 1321033179 151749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(none of the questions have required a specific algo)
< 1321033219 740252 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you see how much memory it uses?
< 1321033230 330440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess so
< 1321033240 837179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am not even sure that'd help, as OCaml is nondeterministically GCed
< 1321033250 812879 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321033304 511855 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember "libertas" being latin for "for freedom"...
< 1321033335 268902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 914
< 1321033336 806625 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321033343 86756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/eYAX
< 1321033344 295432 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-11 17:42:24 URL:http://sprunge.us/eYAX [268] -> "eYAX" [1]
< 1321033354 432497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd bin; patch -p1 <../eYAX
< 1321033356 347805 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :patching file '?' \ Hunk #1 succeeded at 1 with fuzz 2.
< 1321033362 623500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm eYAX
< 1321033364 662952 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321033367 284684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome > Gregor
< 1321033369 488231 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome > Gregor? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321033375 662967 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'job.
< 1321033383 123291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Ah.
< 1321033399 385935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an easy solution to this!
< 1321033427 676630 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have we all decided on a superior highlight character for that, by the way?
< 1321033429 781312 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since ? is taken
< 1321033432 948260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please tell me it's parsing the filename of stdout to determine who to ping
< 1321033436 804462 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$anybody react to $?
< 1321033437 586359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: `? is fine *shrug*
< 1321033440 910691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol
< 1321033445 640343 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it needs a space bleh >:(
< 1321033452 196168 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's really "`? "
< 1321033463 664577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd make it react to any lowercase word without spaces followed by ? and EOL
< 1321033465 668370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about ?? like #nethack uses?
< 1321033467 506733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? abc
< 1321033467 758418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : abc
< 1321033467 825645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but others may dislike that :)
< 1321033468 624672 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a really really old computer
< 1321033473 435897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what?
< 1321033474 712265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? 1+2
< 1321033474 924469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1+2
< 1321033476 220808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With vacuum tubes and magnetic tape
< 1321033480 355187 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :??I suspect that it will still react to ?
< 1321033480 630707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ?? an echo command for lambdabot?
< 1321033484 821289 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? foo
< 1321033485 362672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo
< 1321033487 484150 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :??foo
< 1321033490 804150 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321033494 870177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?help ??
< 1321033495 101968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands
< 1321033498 18249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?help ?
< 1321033498 248994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? [args].
< 1321033498 394713 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
< 1321033498 440284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The commands are right associative.
< 1321033498 440435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : For example:    ? ?pl ?undo code
< 1321033498 440534 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : is the same as: ? (?pl (?undo code))
< 1321033516 339837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321033523 201516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? c i op as
< 1321033523 392985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : c i op as
< 1321033538 518003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? pl ?undo 2+2
< 1321033538 767780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : pl 2 + 2
< 1321033543 751763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting
< 1321033544 384743 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I will set it up
< 1321033544 504821 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And run Dwarf Fortress
< 1321033544 550114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? ?pl ?undo 2+2
< 1321033544 632559 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generate a really long history
< 1321033544 813560 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just have that in a room somewhere
< 1321033545 841944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4
< 1321033550 502860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 can't read documentation.
< 1321033561 347727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help @
< 1321033561 551184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ [args].
< 1321033561 679397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
< 1321033561 724934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The commands are right associative.
< 1321033561 725122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : For example:    @ @pl @undo code
< 1321033561 725221 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : is the same as: @ (@pl (@undo code))
< 1321033561 815453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the documentation gave /one/ leading ?
< 1321033563 424687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not two
< 1321033568 502505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it actually gives different help for the @ version.
< 1321033575 115805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, because it's implied to be part of a lambdabot invocation
< 1321033576 978366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help pl
< 1321033577 244595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless . Play with pointfree code.
< 1321033579 396860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  @ [args].
< 1321033579 722154 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help `
< 1321033580 153444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands
< 1321033582 823326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pointless . Play with pointfree code.
< 1321033625 658945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/OhSc
< 1321033626 781344 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-11 17:47:06 URL:http://sprunge.us/OhSc [189] -> "OhSc" [1]
< 1321033632 262738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv OhSC bin/'?'; chmod +x bin/'?'
< 1321033634 151883 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `OhSC': No such file or directory
< 1321033637 552399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv OhSC bin/'?'; chmod +x bin/'?'
< 1321033639 304678 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `OhSC': No such file or directory
< 1321033644 509850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ???
< 1321033673 44416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/OhSc
< 1321033674 211555 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-11 17:47:54 URL:http://sprunge.us/OhSc [189] -> "OhSc.1" [1]
< 1321033677 861743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol
< 1321033678 35315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1321033680 456619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv OhSC bin/'?'; chmod +x bin/'?'; rm OhSC.1
< 1321033682 636404 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `OhSC': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `OhSC.1': No such file or directory
< 1321033684 414957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321033687 305111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv OhSc bin/'?'; chmod +x bin/'?'; rm OhSc.1
< 1321033689 492171 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321033692 841028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome > Gregor
< 1321033694 691342 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321033700 776837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/?
< 1321033702 562222 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6308
< 1321033703 524693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Behold the elegance.
< 1321033707 472232 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? yousuck @ elliott
< 1321033709 224350 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yousuck? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321033733 243859 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's pretty genius.
< 1321033746 436824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/f $1/f $*/g' bin/'?'; # so that you can still run it from `run sanely
< 1321033748 319777 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321033752 421666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run '?' welcome > test
< 1321033754 622693 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321033755 582227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh wait :P
< 1321033759 471613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert -3
< 1321033760 758543 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321033763 156449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321033763 949515 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321033774 198211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect
< 1321033778 310058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait...
< 1321033781 54753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just had The Best Idea.
< 1321033784 792782 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh
< 1321033792 827271 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOODBYE!
< 1321033804 667135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Pietbot's achieved sentience WHILE NOT EVEN RUNNING
< 1321033810 915798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am scared
< 1321033813 217888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Writing to /home/ causes HackEgo to address what's written there to .
< 1321033821 372976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example: `run wisdom > ~elliott
< 1321033824 337037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: [wisdom]
< 1321033828 506864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, s/wisdom/fortune/g
< 1321033854 66984 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... that's dumb. /home/ existed for any reason it would be for actually private per-user files.
< 1321033867 474199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\. \//. If \//
< 1321033872 258913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The reason to put it in /home is so that you can use ~foo :P
< 1321033876 979452 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1321033880 209543 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1321033901 582005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK wait no I just had The Best Idea.
< 1321033901 895771 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think we've all agreed on the prefix character 🐐, right?
< 1321033906 130683 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :🐐welcome @ elliott
< 1321033912 610168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's >, not @.
< 1321033917 672061 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WATCH ME @
< 1321033921 338870 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WATCH ME @ THE NIGHT AWAY
< 1321033937 637039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK here is the best idea: HackEgo functions as a @tell bot... /by using Unix mail/.
< 1321033947 393761 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_O
< 1321033991 637414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires exactly two pieces of infrastructure from the outside: A user added whenever a new nick is spotted, and the first time a user speaks after receiving mail, HackEgo notifies them :P
< 1321034123 724630 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321034133 267125 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1321034144 244070 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I half-mostly-kinda misunderstood the request :P
< 1321034161 343251 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm.
< 1321034164 392334 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it under consideration.
< 1321034317 311007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome 🐐 elliott
< 1321034319 356225 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321034329 482783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1321034330 861926 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321034340 216911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 934
< 1321034341 875884 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321034344 203307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a bad person, Gregor.
< 1321034345 883761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VERY BAD PERSON
< 1321034354 926826 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, I also added back @ :P
< 1321034369 783737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I can confirm that skyrim is buggy
< 1321034373 538001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but @ is like so unUnixy.
< 1321034374 949309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as would be expected
< 1321034381 707876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Waaah
< 1321034402 283673 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: foo > elliott should replace the very fiber of your being, not target the message at you.
< 1321034413 998014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, I'm currently unable to re-equip the item in my right hand except to a two-hand weapon or the flame spell. This just happened randomly
< 1321034414 130917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HackEgo must live with its approximations of the ideal :P
< 1321034424 793604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run '?' welcome | cat <<<'elliott: ' -
< 1321034426 512567 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: redirection unexpected
< 1321034434 75123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sh =/= bash
< 1321034438 220893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, make `run start bash, not sh, please
< 1321034442 179876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run bash -c "'?' welcome | cat <<<'elliott: ' -"
< 1321034444 545356 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:
< 1321034446 998970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash goes into compatibility mode when run as sh
< 1321034449 225267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321034451 200846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes no sense for `run's interactive use
< 1321034457 477876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyuk
< 1321034460 774209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is with the trailing "?
< 1321034467 962473 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes it start tcsh X-P
< 1321034468 264185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it matches the " after -c
< 1321034497 11445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh
< 1321034535 266605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems I've forgotten exactly how <<< works
< 1321034548 704956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and this ride to another town I just hired doesn't seem to actually ever leave
< 1321034548 785446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I had some more thoughts about transactional semantics for HackEgo; as far as I can tell, it's simple, but there's one important caveat:
< 1321034560 589504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Commands all run at once, /but/ you don't get the output of any command until they /all/ finish.
< 1321034565 901729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does it nonetheless arrive?
< 1321034566 951657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ignoring writes)
< 1321034567 955842 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Done.
< 1321034581 991325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think that's so terrible as to make it not worth it, though; everything still takes the same amount of time.
< 1321034600 789417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does mean that `sleep 30 is a bit annoying, but only Madoka-Kaname would do that, and HackEgo ignores her :P
< 1321034657 694938 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run bash -c "'?' welcome | cat <(echo -n 'elliott: ') -"
< 1321034660 820 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321034666 89318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The easy way."
< 1321034666 158879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So convenient.
< 1321034666 845805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: does it nonetheless arrive? <-- no
< 1321034671 573216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ? welcmoe
< 1321034672 552345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1321034673 668568 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcmoe? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321034677 42812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that works
< 1321034683 862837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is just boringly plain broken.
< 1321034694 89231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm tempted to replace `?'s > support with a "to" command, but I dunno...
< 1321034706 192811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"`? welcome > newbie" is shorter than "`run ? welcome | to newbie" :P
< 1321034717 5515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume you know that Skyrim had a day-1 patch?
< 1321034721 544075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh
< 1321034723 580719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have that patch
< 1321034725 174610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make it `to newbie ? welcome
< 1321034735 600582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which to
< 1321034736 472586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so actually version 1.1 was released on the 11/11/11
< 1321034737 487336 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321034739 830120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run while true; do '?' `t` > t2; cat t2; mv t2 t; done
< 1321034749 122717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's going to be annoying...
< 1321034754 893982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, do infinite loops not produce output anyway?
< 1321034769 149490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run for x in `seq 1 5`; do '?' `t` > t2; cat t2; mv t2 t; done
< 1321034770 817916 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is `t` supposed to do.
< 1321034771 527461 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found
< 1321034773 218961 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ bash: t: command not found \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory
< 1321034777 857862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run for x in `seq 1 5`; do '?' `cat t` > t2; cat t2; mv t2 t; done
< 1321034782 246637 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory \ cat: wisdom/: Is a directory
< 1321034784 950906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, missed a car
< 1321034790 264664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321034793 773344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 934
< 1321034794 976998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*missed a cat
< 1321034795 185136 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321034807 711345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea's to repeatedly iterate ?
< 1321034831 956569 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly :P
< 1321034833 147692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have one ? then two ?s then three ?s, etc
< 1321034838 964317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's bash, it's not Haskell
< 1321034855 702185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would be kinda nice if we could revert single files...
< 1321034865 461744 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Waaaaaaah
< 1321034867 886222 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321034880 559226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pah :P
< 1321034890 351806 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm
< 1321034900 337575 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since HackEgo is actually running umlbox, I could make .hg present but read-only.
< 1321034924 71230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be nice
< 1321034930 404287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`gdb
< 1321034932 166692 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gdb: not found
< 1321034935 505977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321034942 15297 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321034947 593477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would also be nice if we could install packages ourselves ;D
< 1321034951 755133 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321034982 329671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Blurp
< 1321035009 66856 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Did I just break everything?
< 1321035009 703911 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Pietbot seems to work when it recieves a PRIVMSG from #esoTERiC
< 1321035010 631772 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I just break everything?
< 1321035011 218652 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid .hg directory found.
< 1321035014 18517 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321035015 110955 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not #esoteric
< 1321035019 414051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or #ESOTERIC
< 1321035022 970927 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Did I just break everything?
< 1321035024 582197 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I just break everything?
< 1321035055 33026 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321035058 431262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1321035060 370677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does
< 1321035061 922616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo="$@"
< 1321035062 302918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do
< 1321035079 968075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :](:S:^):^
< 1321035096 357643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :](test)S
< 1321035105 571499 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want ]ul
< 1321035109 195455 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that didn't work, presently .hg is accessible :P
< 1321035112 314470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (:S:^):^
< 1321035112 587639 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^ ...too much output!
< 1321035115 337175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (test)S
< 1321035115 573700 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1321035128 812828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the reaction to the first one was fast enough that there's definitely a bot involved
< 1321035141 923915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fixed.
< 1321035143 883415 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :]help
< 1321035146 331334 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hg is now present but read-only.
< 1321035148 59905 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go nuts.
< 1321035151 622941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (:S(a)*:^):^
< 1321035151 770214 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S(a)*:^:S(a)*:^a:S(a)*:^aa:S(a)*:^aaa:S(a)*:^aaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:S(a)*:^aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: ...too much output!
< 1321035157 484352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, definitely
< 1321035171 661151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 914
< 1321035173 119668 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321035174 499659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/NLfb
< 1321035175 714751 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-11 18:12:55 URL:http://sprunge.us/NLfb [179] -> "NLfb" [1]
< 1321035180 921378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv NLfb bin/'@'; chmod +x bin/'@'
< 1321035182 913676 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321035184 542273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: that is /not/ a sensible way to do a loop counter in Underload)
< 1321035184 587591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ ais523 ? welcome
< 1321035186 620478 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exec: 9: welcome: not found
< 1321035192 673239 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LOLOL U FAIL
< 1321035193 337085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O
< 1321035195 317252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: thanks for that
< 1321035202 718066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ ais523 \? welcome
< 1321035204 810539 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321035216 196190 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1321035217 959804 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lastquote \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
< 1321035230 911015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321035232 296428 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Interpolation's a bitch, eh?
< 1321035237 659195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ "ais523 ? welcome"
< 1321035239 800491 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exec: 9: welcome: not found
< 1321035245 88843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321035251 523944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "ais523 ? welcome" | sed 's/.* //'
< 1321035253 538378 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome
< 1321035256 133113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ 'elliott ? welcome'
< 1321035257 937013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: regexp's a bitch, eh?
< 1321035258 424420 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exec: 9: welcome: not found
< 1321035268 41072 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup
< 1321035269 746230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with interpolation at all
< 1321035274 985714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather, splitting into args
< 1321035281 584072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/gFYW
< 1321035282 782569 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-11 18:14:42 URL:http://sprunge.us/gFYW [182] -> "gFYW" [1]
< 1321035283 774689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ elliott \? abc def
< 1321035285 732268 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: abc? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321035285 789089 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log
< 1321035287 515362 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-04-28.txt:19:21:42:  ehird, what did you say thenm
< 1321035287 736192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv gFYW bin/@; chmod +x bin/@
< 1321035288 69098 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hg log
< 1321035289 908950 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321035297 838551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ newbie ? welcome
< 1321035299 858197 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :newbie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321035301 682323 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset:   949:5a502f968ae0 \ tag:         tip \ user:        HackBot \ date:        Fri Nov 11 18:14:43 2011 +0000 \ summary:      fetch http://sprunge.us/gFYW \  \ changeset:   948:9c64676a536c \ user:        HackBot \ date:        Fri Nov 11 18:13:03 2011 +0000 \ summary:      run mv NLfb bin/'@'; chmod
< 1321035303 329005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tada
< 1321035346 38591 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott @ elliott echo hi
< 1321035350 850411 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: elliott: hi
< 1321035365 620316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg log --style help
< 1321035368 193429 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: style not found: help
< 1321035377 853108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ `yes @` help
< 1321035379 927849 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`yes: exec: 9: @`: not found
< 1321035380 604194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How list styles
< 1321035384 972746 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I not know
< 1321035391 875252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it wouldn't have worked anyway
< 1321035401 369896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash isn't lazy
< 1321035402 274169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg log --style compact
< 1321035404 904499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :950[tip]   9d673ce664d4   2011-11-11 18:14 +0000   HackBot \    run mv gFYW bin/@; chmod +x bin/@ \  \ 949   5a502f968ae0   2011-11-11 18:14 +0000   HackBot \    fetch http://sprunge.us/gFYW \  \ 948   9c64676a536c   2011-11-11 18:13 +0000   HackBot \    run mv NLfb bin/'@'; chmod +x bin/'@' \
< 1321035409 668655 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bash. Still not Haskell?
< 1321035418 343236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: git log --oneline # git is more usable than hg
< 1321035426 113059 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Waaaaah
< 1321035440 479148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg log --template '{rev} {desc}\n'
< 1321035441 910220 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Considering that every other command in git sucks ass, I don't know if I agree.
< 1321035443 191394 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :950  run mv gFYW bin/@; chmod +x bin/@ \ 949  fetch http://sprunge.us/gFYW \ 948  run mv NLfb bin/'@'; chmod +x bin/'@' \ 947  fetch http://sprunge.us/NLfb \ 946  revert 914 \ 945  run touch foo ; hg add foo ; hg commit -u Blerp -m - \ 944  run rm -f foo foobar
< 1321035473 250876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg log --template '{author|obfuscate}'
< 1321035475 992042 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​HackBotHackBotHackBotHackBotHackBotHackBotHackBotBlerpHackBotHackBotHackBotHackBotHac&
< 1321035476 767059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: as in, git has one good command, or as in git commands alternate between good and bad?
< 1321035481 371874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hg: still sucks ass!
< 1321035496 304214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the obfuscate filter's intended use?
< 1321035497 709005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That so counts as sucking ass, because it's so confusing :P)
< 1321035501 756664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Generating HTML.
< 1321035506 7879 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git has now shown me one good command in git. The rest are, to my knowledge, terrible.
< 1321035509 878034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, hg comes with a mini templating language meant to let you us "hg log" to generate HTML pages.
< 1321035521 419614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but why would you want to do that? it doesn't really block scraping at all
< 1321035526 749704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as HTML scrapers can generally parse HTML
< 1321035532 143297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, most don't bother
< 1321035538 185006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least didn't a while ago
< 1321035554 331425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why spent five hours parsing all the various ways to obfuscate emails? people who do that won't be fooled by your spam anyway
< 1321035570 116382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you only scrape for emails in the most obvious format, you still get thousands upon thousands of them, and they're likely to be more gullible too
< 1321035575 451192 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wait, you said TURKEY? I thought you said TURKS! Ha ha ha cannibalism."
< 1321035614 193407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because the motive in sending spam nowadays is no longer to get people to read the spam
< 1321035626 678863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather, because you've been hired to send the spam to X people
< 1321035634 968096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't roll their own spambots nowadays
< 1321035641 319787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, sure
< 1321035645 763949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a waste of time to deal with obfuscation
< 1321035646 521002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the spambot owners are ripping off the spammers, just as the spammers are trying to rip off victims
< 1321035661 764884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it lets you say you're sending to, say, 2 billion targets rather than 1 billion
< 1321035675 538579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing at the number of email addresses on the Internet there)
< 1321035698 231565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just lie? you're not going to be sending spam to that many people anyway
< 1321035717 258628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, umm, honestly hadn't thought of that
< 1321035744 422830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, it's because the people who harvest the addresses aren't the same as the people who send emails nowadays
< 1321035757 757485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a bulk rate for email addresses that don't bounce on the black market
< 1321035760 262020 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321035764 716002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you won't get paid for the same address twice
< 1321035788 353837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just ask CakeProphet, he has first-hand experience!
< 1321036001 472183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, having .hg is kinda nice, but it'd be nice if you could write to the parts where hg stores the info for the next commit
< 1321036013 294955 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope.
< 1321036014 491041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that would let you achieve, but it sounds nice :P
< 1321036019 109175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :'(
< 1321036029 798522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the people who harvest the addresses aren't the same as the people who send emails nowadays" is true as far as I can tell.
< 1321036191 896083 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321036568 440568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I misinterpreted .hg as a ccTLD
< 1321036577 896272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't exist :'(
< 1321036578 743471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it actually one of those, and if so, where?
< 1321036591 169128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long until +scapegoat is a ccTLD :P
< 1321036623 409714 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321036750 274249 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321037325 724104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321037611 729015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any sense in not just treating LF, CR, *or* CR/LF as \n when reading a file?
< 1321037638 376575 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually when it's binary data.
< 1321037651 522176 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :File containing text.
< 1321037674 241596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what if the file actually contains two consecutive newlines, one of which is CR, one of which is LF?
< 1321037675 144653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, when you're dealing with binary data you don't want any munging at all.
< 1321037680 253689 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, if you're writing a program to determine what kind of system you're on based on the line endings of files. :P
< 1321037695 794174 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is no platform on which this is going to come out right. :)
< 1321037720 82624 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CR or LF but not CR/LF as \n? Seriously, WTF?
< 1321037809 827834 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a program that converts line-endings of one style to another. Well, actually no that would benefit from automatic line ending stuff.
< 1321037904 720801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: only if its output style was configurable
< 1321037910 651892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the functionality's
< 1321037916 900562 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321038055 821588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoding conversion.
< 1321038074 892505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So is Skyrim any good
< 1321038086 4642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert-task-where-you-are-concerned-about-the-binary-representation-of-text-data.
< 1321038114 355347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he's probably too busy playing Skyrim to answer that.
< 1321038121 843390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Here's a good reason: \r\n is a separate list of codepoints to \n.
< 1321038261 687099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why should that mean that on UNIX it gets rendered as ^M\n instead of \n?
< 1321038306 180183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/000d/index.htm
< 1321038306 632192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/000a/index.htm
< 1321038313 28162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Text" usually means "sequence of Unicode codepoints".
< 1321038322 106589 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-61.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321038324 14137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mangling that sequence = mangling text.
< 1321038334 962407 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boy, you must hate Unicode normalisation.
< 1321038366 356065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a standard form of mangling :)
< 1321038381 316619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, I just don't consider /silent/ transformation of that sequence acceptable
< 1321038386 685161 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not* rendering \r\n or \r as \n does not preserve the semantics of the text, even if it does preserve the codepoint sequence.
< 1321038386 806302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's an actual operation
< 1321038394 802259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug, define text
< 1321038409 955024 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, do you want to preserve the intended semantics, or the codepoint sequence?
< 1321038418 794546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is "the shit you just typed" a valid definition?
< 1321038426 307243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321038441 789852 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I here note that Windows generally already *performs* a similar mangling.
< 1321038451 478508 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321038459 156916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sequence "\r\n" gets handing to the program as "\n".
< 1321038497 804985 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things do then when opening files in text mode.
< 1321038501 668407 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do that
< 1321038504 928145 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321038509 332367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Windows is broken, how surprising!
< 1321038519 12623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Anyway invalid
< 1321038523 317226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not Unicode
< 1321038529 31964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files are bytestrings
< 1321038540 180558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows just completely unacceptably mangles bytestrings by default :)
< 1321038617 430550 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Per ISO C, this is completely permitted semantics for stdio. If you want no mangling, you should add "b" to your fopen.
< 1321038638 983563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is broken???? OH GOD YOU'RE RUINING MY HEART
< 1321038644 982901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SO UNEXPECTED!!!
< 1321038679 376997 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the default for stdio is that you're reading text in the system's encoding, not binary data.
< 1321038698 941214 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be perfectly permissible for stdio to have a EBCDIC to ASCII conversion step, in fact.
< 1321038709 802915 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange as hell, but perfectly permissible.
< 1321038740 293833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, Python, Ruby, Perl, and Haskell all do that kind of translation in text mode as well.
< 1321038741 53319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you're describing how C-INTERCAL's stdio actually works
< 1321038741 469505 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could just use EBCDIC as its runtime character set or whatever they call it in C
< 1321038744 660734 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, performing this mangling is a violation of POSIX; "b" must be a no-op)
< 1321038744 919295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CLC-INTERCAL
< 1321038753 435311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or C-INTERCAL's in CLC-INTERCAL compat mode)
< 1321038772 932339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Python and Haskell's file IO is based around Unicode strings
< 1321038773 831241 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :at last I think you can, they might've made it boring and standardized on ascii nowadays
< 1321038781 771658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows about Perl
< 1321038786 480708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't care about Ruby
< 1321038816 68926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :both ruby and perl are based on Unicode as well. (at least in newer versions of Perl 5)
< 1321038843 606616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you cannot "base a language" on Unicode
< 1321038849 16503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perl's Unicode is massively beautifully overengineered, it blows most languages' out of the water
< 1321038854 129958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby 1.8 called bytestrings String
< 1321038854 884980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ....seriously?
< 1321038857 62070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what 1.9 does
< 1321038886 449812 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/are based/ file IO are based/
< 1321038892 2079 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for fucks sake)
< 1321038898 726291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's still not a meaningful statement
< 1321038916 359962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytestrings are not sequences of unicode codepoints
< 1321038929 452798 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> CakeProphet: Python and Haskell's file IO is based around
< 1321038929 537631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 Unicode strings
< 1321038935 168979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible to have a language which reads sequences of unicode codepoints and then encodes them in another encoding and returns the resulting bytestring for file IO reading operations
< 1321038935 830649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :please take this horribly mangled quote of yours
< 1321038939 345076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as include perl and ruby to it.
< 1321038942 463598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as/and/
< 1321038945 967356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "Unicode" =/= "Unicode strings"
< 1321038946 12734 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will get what I am saying.
< 1321038952 714860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this conversation is stupid.
< 1321038978 60677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're just being stupid
< 1321038978 909526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321038991 41507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brr, cold
< 1321039014 626512 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I understand the difference between codepoints and encodings.
< 1321039061 540210 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're wasting your time trying to make a point out of it.
< 1321039069 61786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not
< 1321039093 38460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you seriously can't understand how "file IO being Unicode but still using bytestrings" is not a complete description
< 1321039100 561495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not the same thing as "file IO uses a unicode string type"
< 1321039101 781631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then w/e
< 1321039312 76266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one represent Unicode without a sequence of bytes.
< 1321039367 173636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321039397 732187 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321039402 774690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a silly question?
< 1321039417 661086 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-125.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321039436 697625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\./?/  here I'll even make it a question with this special little symbol.
< 1321039489 295765 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: With a sequence of glyphs.
< 1321039504 3952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A sequence of... say...
< 1321039506 736445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codepoints...
< 1321039513 104105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!11111
< 1321039518 490101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I still haven't upgraded to these codepoint-based machines.
< 1321039522 949764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still using bytes over here.
< 1321039593 377313 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why there's a discrepancy now.
< 1321039596 122700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because you're pretending to be so idiotic that you think "RAM is composed of bytes" is equivalent to "there are literally no types other than 'array of bytes' and it is impossible to distinguish them".
< 1321039606 640896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, nice talking to you!
< 1321039662 94336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm saying there's not much distinguishing a bytestring encoded in Unicode and a sequence of codepoints
< 1321039667 415452 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than well... how they're encoded.
< 1321039701 279804 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321039706 32495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah! For instance, a string consisting solely of a codepoint that takes two bytes to encode in UTF-8 OBVIOUSLY has length 2.
< 1321039722 745528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 codepoints + 2 codepoints = 5 codepoints
< 1321039723 394831 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321039737 344028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so then Perl uses a "unicode string type"
< 1321039737 805536 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321039737 850829 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321039745 17025 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as I was saying..
< 1321039767 399891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot prove that just by checking length.
< 1321039776 164821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :length_after_decoding_utf8 is a perfectly valid operation; Perl may call it "length".
< 1321039797 505129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can implement a Unicode string type by using an internal UTF-8 representation: the question is whether the abstraction is leaky.
< 1321039815 531321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Perl had approximately a billion decades before getting Unicode support, my guess as to the probability of there being no leaks in its abstraction is 0.
< 1321039831 411124 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore it is "not a unicode string type"?
< 1321039859 16926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously:
< 1321039859 633851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: Yeah! For instance, a string consisting solely of a codepoint that takes two bytes to encode in UTF-8 OBVIOUSLY has length 2.
< 1321039874 390047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If length reported the length in UTF-8 bytes, it would obviously not be calculating the length of a Unicode string.
< 1321039892 857159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously you can cheat and say that there's an implicit _after_encoding_to_utf8 suffix to any abstraction leaks.)
< 1321039901 298789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Returns the length in characters of the value of EXPR. If EXPR is omitted, returns the length of $_ . If EXPR is undefined, returns undef."
< 1321039906 176226 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters is in italics.
< 1321039908 977526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That fails if Perl accepts, and retains, UTF-8 variants though...)
< 1321039914 428274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. that one that has no 0 bytes.)
< 1321039922 759721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: My argument extends to any operation.
< 1321039934 733185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is boring, and I need to go do things.
< 1321039937 518232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321040133 989059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: never say that, you attract attention from people who actually /do/ know everything
< 1321040144 315943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, we know that he doesn't really know everything.
< 1321040209 680970 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. According to Unicode, conforming applications should accept the following as line terminators: U+000A U+000B U+000C U+000D (U+000D U+000A) U+0085 U+2028 U+2029.
< 1321040304 123476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 0xB?
< 1321040310 388815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical tab?
< 1321040314 399322 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1321040332 50136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recognise the other three, but didn't really expect to
< 1321040374 330393 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are NEXT LINE, LINE SEPERATOR, and PARAGRAPH SEPERATOR
< 1321040381 138120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pagebreak?
< 1321040388 998033 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0085 looks weirdest to me, it's in latin 1 but above ascii
< 1321040402 850138 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from ISO-8859-1.
< 1321040417 183078 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in Windows-1252.
< 1321040488 962456 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a block of control codes at the same "location" than ASCII.
< 1321040521 494091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely certain the control codes are specified by ISO-8859-1 though, I'd appreciate a citation on this.
< 1321040568 661719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking they're not, there's merely defined space *for* control codes.
< 1321040574 928579 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/trac/ <-- behold my new and improved trac installation
< 1321040579 323703 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO 8859-1 is the standard, it doesn't specify the control codes
< 1321040593 708150 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it's usually used with the C0 and C1 control code set.
< 1321040594 34082 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO-8859-1 is the preferred name for the charset which includes the control codes
< 1321040608 264308 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C0 is the the set in ASCII.
< 1321040617 636708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there is something wrong in today's logs between 17:14:19 and 17:17:57, i suspect some parts/quits and joins are missing
< 1321040644 58353 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, \r and \n technically aren't in ISO 8859-1.
< 1321040646 836167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321040674 426667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh hm, maybe just one part/quit (ais523)
< 1321040683 260957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like the copy of gcc-bf :P
< 1321040689 269621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't part, I kicked myself
< 1321040690 318972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was a kick
< 1321040691 127263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then rejoined
< 1321040695 517723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321040705 615129 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 's useful.
< 1321040710 335132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd needed to unstealth, and then kicked myself as a simple way of stealthing again
< 1321040712 298196 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, kick.
< 1321040715 524953 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add that.
< 1321040717 133917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: STILL, MISSING INFORMATION
< 1321040731 109645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How come you never gave me a gcc-bf tarball :P
< 1321040734 777631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you, I might have just forgotten :)
< 1321040747 225642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I did
< 1321040754 535881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it was hosted on Vorpal's server, I think
< 1321040757 536674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if it still is
< 1321040771 686969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps now is a good time to chug a Coke, Monster, and Starbucks doubleshot.
< 1321040778 859474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think it is.
< 1321040819 868554 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterwards I will link pics of my heart exploding.
< 1321040903 18459 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 12:36 < pikhq> Hmm. According to Unicode, conforming applications should accept the following as line terminators: U+000A U+000B U+000C U+000D (U+000D U+000A) U+0085 U+2028  U+2029.
< 1321040932 926133 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, Perl certainly makes the Unicode attempt not too shabbily -- http://perldoc.perl.org/perlunicode.html -- the "Effects of Character Semantics" pretty much lists what they do; sadly there isn't exactly a list of what they don't do. (But they explicitly say they're not claiming any Unicode standard compliance.)
< 1321040937 398739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Accept, not have automatically degraded for them
< 1321040948 958248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've seen a comparison of Unicode support in programming languages; Perl won
< 1321041024 708852 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the results of a comparison of /painless/ Unicode support would be quite different.
< 1321041043 961779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode support cannot be "painless" because it involves thinking
< 1321041055 223089 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :think pain
< 1321041059 432910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in character semantics, Perl's unicode support is pretty automatic
< 1321041068 655891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to realise that what you're writing is talking about characters, not bytes or codepoints
< 1321041077 120549 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's usually about codepoints.
< 1321041079 218007 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not characters.
< 1321041090 483113 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(The only time that Perl considers a sequence of individual code points as a single logical character is in the \X construct, already mentioned above. Therefore "character" in this discussion means a single Unicode code point.)"
< 1321041090 980832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in Perl, it's about characters
< 1321041093 698955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC
< 1321041094 436137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: if it's a function in a pure language, you can't, because all sorting algorithms are equivalent, modulo stability
< 1321041098 400672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just for \X? boring
< 1321041098 939903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above is from perldoc perlunicode.
< 1321041115 776998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall toying around with passing broken comparing functions to haskell's sortBy :P
< 1321041123 438281 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: me too.
< 1321041132 38380 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fixt, regenerating.
< 1321041145 287093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way i could see what was compared in what order
< 1321041146 548962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You never responded wrt transactional HackEgo :P
< 1321041154 88175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no response.
< 1321041164 980404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's of course all kinds of modules, like Unicode::Normalize, which consider characters.
< 1321041171 679286 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:17:12: -!- ais523 has kicked ais523 from #esoteric: there are actually quite a lot of ways to deop yourself, this is one of them
< 1321041173 631944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was a question of the form "is this acceptable"
< 1321041176 342748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(under the assumption no pair is compared twice)
< 1321041194 264051 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's less than ideal, but if you put the work into making it, err, work, then I'll accept it :P
< 1321041213 299563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent
< 1321041213 969448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321041220 908134 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way Unicode defines a "character" is rather non-trivial: http://unicode.org/reports/tr29/#Grapheme_Cluster_Boundaries
< 1321041221 847327 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321041223 456878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: `help
< 1321041225 771871 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321041230 179875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's, uh, still written in bash, right? :P
< 1321041235 484610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: clearly we need an esolang whose only purpose is doing Unicode completely correctly
< 1321041241 606805 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But at least it's still a relatively simple algorithm, as long as you have the database.)
< 1321041246 293980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I guess Java probably can, but nobody has figured out how
< 1321041256 882508 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ayup
< 1321041269 110252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do I... have to keep that? :P
< 1321041280 669037 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Most languages other than Haskell are acceptable.
< 1321041289 299295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about... Haskell?
< 1321041294 417993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miranda? Gofer?
< 1321041298 671271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Haskell?
< 1321041303 649737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java has trouble even handling non-BMP stuff the way people usually use the java.lang.String API.
< 1321041305 848799 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dph
< 1321041307 907099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disciple?
< 1321041313 802175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perl
< 1321041320 543027 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is dph not considered as distinct from haskell as those
< 1321041334 647870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPH is just a realtively simple language extension :P
< 1321041346 844148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BASIC
< 1321041353 282391 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GdH
< 1321041358 754069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloud haskell
< 1321041359 519604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: God damn Haskell?
< 1321041363 603300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fortran
< 1321041366 871706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How are these sounding???
< 1321041367 169692 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Glasgow Distributed Haskell
< 1321041368 798759 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq agda epigram what else
< 1321041374 525919 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Scala io
< 1321041377 399725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PLOF
< 1321041382 111519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wow, didn't realise that even existed.
< 1321041383 427368 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's based on GHC 5.0 IIRC
< 1321041386 410260 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How would you feel if I called it "newline normalisation"?
< 1321041386 789715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and clean, of course
< 1321041388 322503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nice.
< 1321041395 196518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, just don't make it implicit
< 1321041398 491274 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: K
< 1321041409 307002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why are you doing this anyway
< 1321041423 973967 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was just thinking it'd be a hell of a lot nicer than "Derp ^M\n"
< 1321041445 317026 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good name.
< 1321041470 827667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: solution: destroy all non-unix operating systems
< 1321041499 254394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why does HackEgo have DCC support...
< 1321041503 783600 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: rip @
< 1321041505 696403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: er, non-\n operating systems, rather.
< 1321041511 125955 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hgegeheheh
< 1321041516 804511 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did g get in there
< 1321041520 281936 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboar.d.
< 1321041524 951106 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And then make the network newline convention \n instead of \r\n?
< 1321041531 100840 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It ... doesn't?
< 1321041532 753265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, yes, of course.
< 1321041536 669573 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should switch to a nonquerty layout so my typos are more mysterious
< 1321041538 472256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1321041541 781934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     4 . lib/dcc
< 1321041541 827334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    25 maybe_dcc_chat() {
< 1321041541 827482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321041545 149605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU WILL SEE A DRAMATIC INCREASE OF DATA THROUGHPUT
< 1321041549 449134 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It has some leftover unused files.
< 1321041554 258886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're not stupidly using TWO WHOLE BYTES for lines.
< 1321041567 223889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: maybe_dcc_chat is an unused FUNCTION in a used FILE oh snapepe!!!!
< 1321041571 31530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: /dramatic/
< 1321041632 897514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:  we just need some kind of software apocalypse
< 1321041641 674023 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that we can redefine all of the standards so that they're sane.
< 1321041671 160257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people won't complain about their code breaking
< 1321041678 700885 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because THERE IS NO CODE MUAHAHAHAHA.
< 1321041750 237791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never realised the Wolfram blog was so entertaining.
< 1321041750 476845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321041776 194173 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot ur dumb
< 1321041776 325363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;)
< 1321041778 416143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all like "Oh no we want to investigate this thing but we can't do the sums, GOOD THING WE HAVE MATHEMATICA".
< 1321041803 991074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321041808 156784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pola-nice "$@" |
< 1321041809 884841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ??????
< 1321041812 602798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Where's UMLBox???
< 1321041816 465820 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Unicode without round-trip! YES
< 1321041829 92304 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pola-nice is just a command name, it's implemented in lib/interp
< 1321041832 680264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, you call it "pola-nice" even though it's umlbox >_<
< 1321041833 706939 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The name is just olde.
< 1321041833 825836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo oerjan: test
< 1321041838 358501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That should really be umlbox-nice :P
< 1321041840 333499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: test
< 1321041843 755659 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Waaaaaaaaaaaah
< 1321041893 592804 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: are you best porgrammeer now.
< 1321041909 247313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it doesn't use that no-width space then
< 1321041961 600500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What the heck is UNDO...
< 1321041970 821149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mathematicians discover programming languages? shocking.
< 1321042014 929135 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately they used the only one that can do sums.
< 1321042034 512050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh... it's like atexit but weird
< 1321042170 377610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        umlbox-nice "$@" |
< 1321042170 448487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            head -c 16384 |
< 1321042175 792871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Gregor realises how short IRC lines are :P
< 1321042179 764851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, spoiled my SECRET RENAME
< 1321042193 995490 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's umlbox-nice?
< 1321042200 848050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like pola-nice but not STUPIDLY NAMED
< 1321042201 710405 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pola-nice
< 1321042266 69892 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me rephrase then: what's pola-nice?
< 1321042287 851095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1321042297 493220 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :like umlbox-nice but STUPIDLY NAMED?
< 1321042301 231936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as in nice(1)?
< 1321042334 138926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox-nice() {
< 1321042334 184335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     nice -n10 /usr/bin/umlbox -n -B -f /opt -f /var/irclogs -f /etc/java-6-openjdk -R3128:127.0.0.1:3128 -T 30 -tw \
< 1321042334 184507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :	 /hackenv . -t /hackenv/.hg .hg -f "$ORIGDIR/lib" --cwd /hackenv env PATH="$UMLBOX_PATH" \
< 1321042334 184629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :	 HACKENV=/hackenv http_proxy="$http_proxy" "$ORIGDIR/lib/limits" "$@"
< 1321042334 184742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1321042335 625951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth
< 1321042397 227439 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nice
< 1321042401 143146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Mastermind is pretty awesome right now; the host couldn't stop asking earlier
< 1321042409 8119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :during the questions
< 1321042416 564371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's the actual program or a parody
< 1321042421 348443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Children in Need, that makes sense
< 1321042442 863742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an underloved data structure in computing?
< 1321042456 912660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wish I was the kind of person who could watch a parody without realising it :P
< 1321042507 32713 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Fibonacci heap gets no love, all heap-love goes to binary/binomial heaps.
< 1321042535 236900 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can I create an entire programming language around this data structure?
< 1321042543 529815 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice law about parodies and reality being notoriously difficult to tell apart
< 1321042549 893174 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it'd be a very interesting language.
< 1321042550 861331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poe's?
< 1321042563 484636 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sounds about right yeah
< 1321042565 675642 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also BLOOD FILTERS, they're like Bloom filters except you kill people. (Disclaimer: not true.)
< 1321042577 875763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think it was a parody; rather, someone had picked a plausible yet goofy specialist subject in order to trip up the host (the Transformers canon)
< 1321042584 559124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the audience weren't taking it seriously
< 1321042587 495890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nobody else could either
< 1321042597 759789 :someoneyouhate!~hatehate@184.19.12.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321042614 113604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean, a not-an-actual-episode
< 1321042665 162978 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe if it's homoiconic. :)
< 1321042688 349750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You seem like the kind of person who knows about bash arrays.
< 1321042706 1823 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I used them a little bit recently, but I can't say I'd *know* about them.
< 1321042712 184832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hadn't watched the whole thing
< 1321042726 446790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait
< 1321042744 563937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about bash arrays?
< 1321042745 535390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: All HackEgo stuff is command-triggered, right
< 1321042746 842319 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used bash arrays once
< 1321042760 500643 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, man, bash arrays!
< 1321042760 738023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does HackBot let me run any code in the background :P
< 1321042764 611566 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get me started about bash arrays.
< 1321042765 613419 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mad
< 1321042769 100406 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for that.
< 1321042791 177517 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previously I not mad, and now I mad.
< 1321042799 329918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't bash arrays
< 1321042800 665701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah well, Gregor is a fascist and won't let me use Haskell.
< 1321042812 524812 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the context?
< 1321042820 888400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do so many people think astrology gets the position of the Sun incorrect? That simply isn't true, and you can say a lot of valid things about astrology being wrong without having to say the position of the Sun is incorrect.
< 1321042821 144728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321042822 359655 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash arrays are this thing where you get several hammers and then use them to bash in several nails at the same time.
< 1321042825 545083 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't feel like reading all this scrollback.
< 1321042827 740122 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Won't let you to use Haskell for what purpose?
< 1321042833 494783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo!
< 1321042833 886441 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Haskell if you like to do so.
< 1321042847 654184 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: zzo38 has given you sage advice.
< 1321042873 142025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it is true that you don't have to use Haskell for everything.
< 1321042881 188415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage advice in good thyme
< 1321042889 561933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: TECHNICALLY I could use Haskell but then Gregor wouldn't pull. :'(
< 1321042900 464539 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321042910 893064 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321042911 127309 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321042911 172497 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321042913 278769 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program are you trying to write?
< 1321042919 408450 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something for Gregor?
< 1321042941 64123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make HackEgo's concurrency semantics not suck.
< 1321043007 920478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :array = ( [2]=blah  [50]=30 )
< 1321043012 78140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best syntax
< 1321043121 870856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you mean a group having everything being their own inverse is called exponent 2 group?
< 1321043132 52573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ =/=(?#no wait this is the best syntax)/
< 1321043145 381684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes.  because it's the same as every element having order 2.
< 1321043158 899920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK.
< 1321043160 81911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or 1)
< 1321043250 498426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell I used:   minverse = id;    (as a method of the Group class)
< 1321043271 167061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently Steam was hacked.
< 1321043296 285833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321043341 610178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this make a monoid?   mempty = Equivalence (==); mappend (Equivalence f) (Equivalence g) = Equivalence $ \x y -> (x == y) /= (f x y /= g x y);   I think it is a monoid, due to the XOR law.
< 1321043399 859079 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is also an exponent 2 Abelian group.
< 1321043403 641127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well it needs to be a monoid just when restricted to particular x and y...
< 1321043420 283672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, i think so.
< 1321043444 93624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait.
< 1321043455 260888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I might not need a background process to do this, but it'd be more convenient :P
< 1321043525 703614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: all exponent 2 groups are abelian, btw
< 1321043551 991163 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, yes, OK.
< 1321043567 838441 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Did you see latest HS updates? If not, do a reaction video
< 1321043584 131517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It forms an exponent 2 group also due to the XOR law, I think.
< 1321043592 610993 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past the [S] I mean
< 1321043600 1644 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: UGH WHY DO YOU ALWAYS ASK ME THIS SHIT
< 1321043600 877931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321043616 95878 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry
< 1321043629 266102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mentioned in the same godel's letter post, although there is some bug in the tex picture for the proof, i saw it myself and someone on reddit also did
< 1321043637 783438 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: no worries it was hyperbole.
< 1321043641 724656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell because IT WAS LIKE THIS.
< 1321043651 938711 :someoneyouhate!~hatehate@184.17.219.88 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321043662 137917 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :someoneyouhate: hi.
< 1321043675 764084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits someoneyouhate with the saucepan ===\__/
< 1321043688 771555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ someoneyouhate ? welcome
< 1321043691 267843 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :someoneyouhate: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321043754 608156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it works for each pair of x,y because both XOR and EQV are group operations
< 1321043829 891048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there a group on groups?
< 1321043835 244751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's essentially an indexed product of such groups
< 1321043859 663254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i dunno
< 1321043966 503186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could have an operation that forms a group from two groups by taking the product of the two sets and then essentially &&&ing the two operations.
< 1321043969 402402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?
< 1321044017 174592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the group being (Bool, (==)) when x == y and (Bool, (/=)) when x /= y
< 1321044055 719300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes, that's called the direct product
< 1321044072 990280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has no corresponding inverse
< 1321044102 658429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321044115 895452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why is type-hackery so hard :(
< 1321044128 777561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you're not doing it C++. :>
< 1321044132 738446 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is oerjan.
< 1321044136 790994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because obviously you can never get the trivial group (which is the identity) by combining anything else
< 1321044168 670203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just from looking at the underlying sets)
< 1321044186 127343 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: combining two trivial groups could just make a trivial group or something?
< 1321044192 963410 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: just hack it until there's an inverse. :P
< 1321044210 149793 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys
< 1321044233 900200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: two trivial groups _do_ give a trivial group.  but nothing else does.
< 1321044256 677903 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about x * trivial = trivial
< 1321044263 381233 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vice versa.
< 1321044273 630411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have x * trivial = x, that's what identity means
< 1321044282 908780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. maybe I should learn some group theory. :P
< 1321044288 928077 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you should
< 1321044301 146439 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see what you're saying.
< 1321044304 996408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally i am doing the obvious identification of isomorphic groups here
< 1321044350 815291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance x `Elem` (x :- xs) where type instance (x :- xs) `Without` x = xs
< 1321044352 593751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :')
< 1321044372 500131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wait, don't need instance there
< 1321044392 924242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1321044492 343866 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job haskelle
< 1321044500 110461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE TypeOperators, TypeFamilies, GADTs, MultiParamTypeClasses, FlexibleInstances #-}
< 1321044502 720912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back in my game oerjan
< 1321044504 398560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in my game
< 1321044506 941998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shame
< 1321044509 37139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not lame
< 1321044510 141839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhh
< 1321044511 107784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fame
< 1321044519 205473 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe you just need some concept of negative groups. :)
< 1321044528 995005 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where combining a group with a negative group uh.... removes things.
< 1321044539 943678 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can get a trivial group from two inverse groups.
< 1321044575 179343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to break the plot in Skyrim kind of.
< 1321044575 582978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh and i recall an argument why you cannot actually fix it by identifying things:  if you take the product of (countably) infinitely many x's, then x * (x * x * ...) = (x * x * ...) meaning all x = identity if you have inverses for everything
< 1321044651 481616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should stop programming immediately and start your hip hop career.
< 1321044653 387347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically: Apparently it didn't expect me to kill someone that basically said he would report something back to his employer.
< 1321044669 503809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like with numbers, once you have infinity, subtracting infinity from infinity gives you a paradox.
< 1321044688 550673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you assume things should be always consistent
< 1321044689 82565 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One of the silliest things in Oblivion was the way those NPCs with the "plot-important" flag set just simply plain wouldn't die.
< 1321044716 832676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I haven't spotted anything like that in skyrim so far. In oblivion you got that small icon above plot important ones
< 1321044740 946249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have to say that it would probably have been impossible to complete oblivion without the plot-important flag thingy though
< 1321044762 374819 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In Morrowind you just got the awesome notice: "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created."
< 1321044790 303758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw don't run skyrim from an ssd, you will never be able to read the hints on the loading screens that way...
< 1321044795 907471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'm not
< 1321044803 19556 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skyrim has that same property as Oblivion
< 1321044804 987133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *sigh*, I need type-level sets
< 1321044808 223895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't generally go for random murdering, but the one single time I did I got that.
< 1321044810 10680 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some NPCs can't be killed
< 1321044815 186099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah. Well this one could
< 1321044823 179855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's typrtles all the way up
< 1321044829 851900 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in Oblivion you could kill none of the peacefuls, I think?
< 1321044832 940579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What do I do if I need type level sets, thx
< 1321044838 731886 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cry
< 1321044839 495725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aren't instances kind of sort of like typelevel sets?
< 1321044843 48083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Already done
< 1321044861 856461 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Go do something else
< 1321044868 346658 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/instances/typeclasses/
< 1321044881 367185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't wanna, the only project left is @
< 1321044903 254030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write a better Haskell.
< 1321044903 664858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't generally go for random murdering, but the one single time I did I got that. <-- I wasn't randomly murdering. If a rather nasty guy says he will report back to his employer, which I can tell will cause a lot of problems ahead, why would I /not/ try to kill him? There was no one else alive in that ruin than me and him and a lot of monsters at that time too...
< 1321044906 288622 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think it's not all peacefuls, just essential-for-the-main-quest; at least http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Essential_NPCs seems to suggest so, and that they become killable later if you're feeling bloodthirsty.
< 1321044906 576778 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This review of Skyrim I'm reading claims that you can't kill NPCs with children (and maybe not the children themselves either?) nor plot-important NPCs
< 1321044920 794271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh yeah I heard you can't kill children as well
< 1321044924 657820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried
< 1321044927 175492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can't kill NPCs with kids? Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame
< 1321044930 468729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea about parents
< 1321044935 218039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Children are amazingly resilient in video games.
< 1321044939 832739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321044942 232520 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in relatively new games
< 1321044945 950987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321044953 36045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but parents aren't!
< 1321044954 157803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there will be a mod to change that
< 1321044955 730101 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Fallout 2 you could freely blow them to bits, for instance
< 1321044959 557594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my game there will be newborn babies that you can kill.
< 1321044962 19205 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so in Fallout 3
< 1321044963 744259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: MY KIND OF GAME.
< 1321044975 762084 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They often pickpocketed your stuff so it was even justified
< 1321044976 916385 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: pregnant women
< 1321044980 85404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could be a Bethesda thing then? After all Fallout 3 is Bethesda
< 1321044983 177232 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In Fallout 2 there was even a reputation title thing if you did it.
< 1321044983 455389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone can die.
< 1321044986 741176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I like your idea of justice
< 1321045025 189792 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's more of a "games are more mainstream now so the 'think of the children' people are onto us" thing
< 1321045031 299861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, weren't you able to give them grenades or something?
< 1321045036 836217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus blow them up?
< 1321045048 18629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh wait, what I actually need is a ~/~ constraint!
< 1321045051 371614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
< 1321045053 339619 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100226092112/fallout/images/a/ab/Childkiller_Unused.jpg  "This image was unused and the only Vault Boy image to ever be cut from Fallout 2. (I'm sure you can figure out why) I remember when I got the request to do a perk illustration for "Child Killer" that there would be no way to keep in from being offensive. I mean really! How do you make an illustration of "child killer" and keep it from being offensive? Any
< 1321045053 427800 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :way for some reason, I thought this was the least offensive way to do it. I have no idea what I was thinking. Even the designer who requested it realized it was a bad idea, so we fixed it. Looking back on it now, I can't believe I drew this."
< 1321045059 662950 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In Fallout 2? Yes, that's one way
< 1321045074 1933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-D
< 1321045092 391474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bahahahahahaha
< 1321045095 492603 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best picture.
< 1321045101 713122 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets this as his profile pic on Facebook.
< 1321045123 109805 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they just went with a thoroughly rusty^Wlame http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050211175524/fallout/images/e/e3/Childkiller.jpg
< 1321045356 324105 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it how the Unofficial Oblivion Patch contains "over 2200" bugfixes beyond the final official patch. It sure is a big game.
< 1321045370 576781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that was disappointing, the equivalent quest line to oblivions "become arch mage" was quite a bit shorter in skyrim
< 1321045371 640596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1321045438 454456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" http://www.esotericphilosopher.com/about/        you're welcome back anytime. as the page states, it doesn't matter what your profession is or what your academic expertise is, a mentality is transcendent. the philosopher of man mentality."
< 1321045449 70004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, holy crap, he's that guy!
< 1321045459 226116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is from an msg.)
< 1321045594 764399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said that to me too; thought I was special. :(
< 1321045596 49725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match type `Or
< 1321045596 94995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                           (Equ [Char] [Char]) (Or (Equ [Char] Int) No)'
< 1321045596 95145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                   with `Yes'
< 1321045596 95245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: Yes
< 1321045597 675828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :(
< 1321045626 429991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so wait, do we both become philosophers of mans?
< 1321045718 955955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Holy shit, it WORKS.
< 1321045719 114237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sidles away from the type madness
< 1321045727 112833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh
< 1321045765 87490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sprunge.us/CABe
< 1321045785 999288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FullList (set denoted by separating each element by :- and terminating with ()) is a list containing one, and exactly one, value of each type
< 1321045799 710894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in arbitrary order
< 1321045812 91882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321045815 638027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any type that's A, B, or C :)
< 1321045834 406545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equ needs one more type parameter, standing in for a kind
< 1321045835 599067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd do
< 1321045836 925666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ABC
< 1321045841 39625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prepend ABC to all the Equ lines
< 1321045849 423133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd be FullList ABC (...) instead
< 1321045858 393163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it would be general
< 1321045871 222046 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321045879 905065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1321045887 301782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use the (A :- B :- ()) as the first parameter to Equ
< 1321045888 311756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and derive it
< 1321045890 734436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with TH
< 1321045925 642716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now oerjan gets to ask me wtf I'm doing :P
< 1321046077 812668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps sidling away
< 1321046128 493616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no you don't understand, i did this to solve an actual practical problem :( im becoming afraid of myself
< 1321046258 949202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan what do you call the addsquaretorial, f(0) = 0, f(n) = n^2 + f(n-1)
< 1321046333 108887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it's 1/6 n (n+1) (2n+1)
< 1321046335 261528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... how obvious
< 1321046364 163923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1, 5, 14, 30, 55, 91
< 1321046365 818185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Deewiant: there seem to be no custom spell making in Skyrim. I really liked that feature of oblivion
< 1321046366 83843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Square pyramidal numbers: 0^2 + 1^2 + 2^2 +...+ n^2 = n*(n+1)*(2*n+1)/6.
< 1321046366 202179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,5,14,30,55,91,140,204,285,385,506,650,819,1015,1240,1496,1785,2109,2470...
< 1321046366 853000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321046398 214722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squyramidal numbers.
< 1321046443 133605 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: s/useless-fungot/fungot/
< 1321046472 42529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it's obvious if you know difference calculus
< 1321046479 28382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No I love him. so much.
< 1321046481 977377 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321046487 569534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we've discussed here several times
< 1321046493 486780 :useless-fungot!~fungot@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321046494 140926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not saying it's non-obvious
< 1321046496 921738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose I did
< 1321046502 162585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying I expected something prettier :P
< 1321046545 926481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pretty ones are when you use binomial functions
< 1321046552 548199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so this particular method only scales up to about 9 fields, whereas the more involved one can handle about 15
< 1321046613 697306 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1321046633 246805 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6
< 1321046654 400875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway, I really wish this was easier :-(
< 1321046659 412172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to wait for oerjan to ask wtf he's doing :P
< 1321046686 638426 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you doing?
< 1321046720 879397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: have you seen the code?
< 1321046745 887640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to sidle away
< 1321046766 907476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan I HATE YOU JUST ASK ALREADY
< 1321046797 74191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :oerjanDrone1
< 1321046801 134408 :oerjanDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you doing?
< 1321046805 982058 :oerjanDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Kallisti
< 1321046809 438744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE NOT OERJAN
< 1321046809 794503 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet
< 1321046817 942033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GAH! HOW DID YOU KNOW??
< 1321046821 790483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wouldn't censor wtf
< 1321046836 636647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ASK ALREADY YOU ABOMINABLE PERSON
< 1321046838 48325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not intentionally censored.
< 1321046842 373842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like, two censoring levels
< 1321047058 366850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Deewiant: other skyrim info: For alchemy you discover effects of ingredients by experimenting basically it seems. (In oblivion I believe it was based on your alchemy skill?)
< 1321047100 172832 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have practically zero memory of Oblivion so I don't really care about the differences
< 1321047139 660843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey that pegasus guy made another language
< 1321047155 857366 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least since last i've seen
< 1321047224 248238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ask ask ask.
< 1321047225 133996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh okay
< 1321047319 320281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are you*NO CARRIER
< 1321047342 516469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I WILL COME TO TRONDHEIM AND END YOUR EXISTENCE
< 1321047353 375326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet sweet oblivion
< 1321047375 174217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't you mean skyrim :DDDDDDdddddddd
< 1321047507 791874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no skyrim wtf are you talking about
< 1321047548 483700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: explain the joke thankxse
< 1321047568 704863 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :RadicalFeminist
< 1321047592 246668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i need explanation i've been living in this cave you see..
< 1321047611 864184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used this for uniform probability distributions:   uniform x = WriterT $ (flip (,) $ mpnormfunc (mempty <$ x) mempty) <$> x;
< 1321047634 624016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed
< 1321047639 122108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait wait wait youa sked me wtf am i talking about :DDD
< 1321047639 876654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss
< 1321047641 241882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n ow i can tell you
< 1321047645 726171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses
< 1321047662 269566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so you know like
< 1321047666 406845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo <$> a <*> b <*> c
< 1321047687 900456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with that is that for record types, that gets (a) really long and (b) unreadable (since the field names aren't there)
< 1321047691 684955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make probability distributions without even needing numbers or division or something like that
< 1321047692 792728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321047698 726799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could do
< 1321047708 251848 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, it is a "generalized probability distribution".
< 1321047728 142316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data Foo = Foo {fooA :: Int; fooB :: String; fooC :: Double}; data Foo' f = Foo' {fooA' :: f Int; fooB' :: f String; fooC' :: f Double}
< 1321047732 824351 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guesseing idom brackets dcant do reccord typse
< 1321047749 309132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and then do like: runFoo' $ Foo' {fooA' = a; fooB' = b; fooC' = c}
< 1321047756 422429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runFoo' :: Foo' f -> f Foo
< 1321047764 954412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: BUT THE PROBLEM IS: what if you want to run b before a?
< 1321047812 562773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish.
< 1321047813 834873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could do lenses, and then have: data Assign t = forall v. Lens t v := v; mkFoo :: [Assign Foo] -> Foo
< 1321047824 491122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321047835 996284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could do lenses, and then have: data Assign f t = forall v. Lens t v := f v; mkFoo :: (Applicative f) => [Assign f Foo] -> f Foo
< 1321047840 412426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mkFoo [fooA := a, fooB := b, fooC := c]
< 1321047846 904012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321047847 964706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then the problem is, you can just leave off a field and not even get a warning
< 1321047852 930533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or duplicate a field
< 1321047855 869745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that kind of sucks!!
< 1321047868 579480 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :suckest
< 1321047869 936953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but with /this/, you can use a FullList (Assign f Foo)
< 1321047875 864840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321047876 625106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1321047884 376240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you venbtured into the dark worlds of templates hskell yet
< 1321047889 433671 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sokving this
< 1321047890 48075 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem
< 1321047891 663773 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1321047895 873841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but with /this/, you can use a FullList ((FieldA := f Int) :- (FieldB := f String) :- (FieldC := f Double) :- ())
< 1321047895 977640 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Specifically that)
< 1321047904 286593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: with data FieldA, FieldB, FieldC
< 1321047919 945246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and it all works out!
< 1321047932 576298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you define the equality to compare on the field name only etc. etc. etc.
< 1321047948 886642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is kind of ugly though :( any bright ideas???????
< 1321047956 623378 :RadicalFeminist!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321047980 363611 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ugly does it compare with th uglies
< 1321047986 77384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how would you solve this with th
< 1321047986 856291 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or could they ugly team up together
< 1321048002 848041 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quasiquoters probably
< 1321048006 228139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try using TH. It might help too
< 1321048017 974209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do it without quasiquoters, though.
< 1321048045 513532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too, if it works
< 1321048073 436821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, I started running a non-idempotent and hard-to-reverse script misconfigured
< 1321048085 485639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noticed, tried to kill the process in a panic, killed the wrong process
< 1321048091 980473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky stuff
< 1321048093 54440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321048093 813499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it would be a bit difficult due to strong typing in TH quotations. There is a proposal that makes two types of quotations, strong and weak; so you can use a weak one and then make the result strongly typed instead.
< 1321048096 601921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god I saw that Transformers guy on Mastermind it was hilarious.
< 1321048103 571363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, it turned out it was almost configured correctly
< 1321048114 953140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :'( you unhelpful
< 1321048118 769840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in particular, the error it's made is deterministic so I can fix it after the fact
< 1321048126 608202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing it with Homestuck would be funnier still, but I doubt it'd be allowed.
< 1321048131 685611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i don't even know th
< 1321048153 638588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't want to use th here and i don't think th will help
< 1321048251 605320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: new twist on dark brotherhood: it seems you can become hunted by them...
< 1321048254 715694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't use TH if you don't like it.
< 1321048295 279623 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1321048295 325295 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321048302 254284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sprunge.us/gCji
< 1321048318 157235 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1321048405 894837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something tells me that even if you make it work, the type errors for missing fields are going to make people want to kill you.
< 1321048428 130820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thankfully that type error is much worse than it will be in reality
< 1321048437 734191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the duplications of ((A := Int) :- ((B := String) :- ((C := Double) :- ()))) will just look like ABC
< 1321048440 65466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in actual use
< 1321048476 564180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o kay
< 1321048484 643833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, if you have any better ideas...
< 1321048631 992579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1321048634 156520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match type `Assign C :- ()' with `()'
< 1321048634 201961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: FullList
< 1321048634 202129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     ABC (Without ABC (Assign B) (Assign B :- (Assign C :- ())))
< 1321048634 202238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Actual type: FullList ABC ()
< 1321048634 202344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `(:-)', namely `Done'
< 1321048634 982100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `(:-)', namely `(B := "hello") :- Done'
< 1321048639 455646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it looks like when you omit the C field at the end
< 1321048649 495700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "couldn't match type" line gives the full error
< 1321048724 397357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: meanwhile: sigh, why isn't there an infix -1
< 1321048830 963797 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b714d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321048851 585824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because once you want more than 0..9 you're going to start thinking of a better system than numbers
< 1321048866 904614 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321048873 280530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: http://sprunge.us/hdWe
< 1321048884 53121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know, I know, I just want to be able to use $ in my pseudo-literals :P
< 1321048984 334770 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even like that, TH can help to make up the type instances and that kind of stuff
< 1321049034 675225 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321049087 406228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, that was my plan
< 1321049092 72535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it helps make a /nicer/ solution than this
< 1321049095 336698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just makes using this slightly less painful
< 1321049177 887131 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321049178 978913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what would you do in my situation :'(
< 1321049182 420557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t undefined { runIdentity = undefined } { runIdentity = undefined }
< 1321049183 329899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Identity a
< 1321049191 510924 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly IS your situatioateon
< 1321049214 658797 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exACTLY)
< 1321049233 105435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i mexplained it above :'(
< 1321049248 663317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321049255 279335 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll
< 1321049257 164679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look againe
< 1321049280 821747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: from  oerjan: ok so you know like
< 1321049282 919314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to  oerjan: this is kind of ugly though :( any bright ideas???????
< 1321049296 619914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i managed to clean it up from that slightly but yeah)
< 1321049503 366798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no freenode scum
< 1321049504 294228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321049504 418157 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-12 00:11:12 [freenode] -RichiH(~richih@freenode/staff/richih)- [Global Notice] Hi all. We wish you a very verily merry merrily 11:11:11 11.11.11-11!
< 1321049507 224989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you awful
< 1321049507 444749 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLOSE ENOUGH
< 1321049508 712547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people
< 1321049523 844377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh wait for a second I thought it was 11pm
< 1321049525 380643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 10pm
< 1321049528 420944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they were using 12 hour clock
< 1321049528 768893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1321049529 930334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to
< 1321049531 62313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :punch them
< 1321049533 584080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :until they stopped existing
< 1321049550 611729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cut off a good part
< 1321049553 364415 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the -11 is a time zone
< 1321049557 412689 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crank it up  to eleven and here's to hoping the world will not end in 2012; as always,  thanks for flying freenode air!
< 1321049559 941519 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might make sense
< 1321049562 482432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: thats even worse
< 1321049564 441558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to
< 1321049566 173645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill people :(
< 1321049577 186415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait Deewiant is on UTC???
< 1321049579 231733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321049580 172530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :him
< 1321049581 858040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fniland
< 1321049590 38846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is +2
< 1321049593 953700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok..........
< 1321049595 50124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321049595 297720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12
< 1321049596 77231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 10
< 1321049596 929871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how
< 1321049598 306448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clocks go
< 1321049598 732749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321049747 334008 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the way i would have done it with th would be something like the the (field id, f valiue) -> f wahtever except with compiles time checking in th that there are no missing or duplicated felds.  of course this is probably just as bad as type system hakcery, and type system hackery is certainly cooler.....
< 1321049771 565004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that would be uglieir :(
< 1321049776 135332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah...
< 1321049789 872134 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will try to think of
< 1321049791 737640 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to help with
< 1321049793 289789 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :type system
< 1321049794 596866 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruining
< 1321049855 466337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YAWN*
< 1321049860 935733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: there's a part of me at this point that just wants to say
< 1321049861 165797 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321049866 239858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: [Assign Foo]
< 1321049867 473427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1321049868 856111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave it at that
< 1321049873 888504 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo :(
< 1321049874 69543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would never forgive myself
< 1321049882 185254 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My lack of pop-culture knowledge has failed me again...
< 1321049892 695296 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Assign Foo] and leave it at that is ... awufl
< 1321049920 856598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is this non-awful
< 1321049929 43683 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesss awful....
< 1321049933 792172 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its type checkeD??
< 1321049961 294858 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibility of runtime errors makes me
< 1321049962 406249 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really sad
< 1321049965 42570 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possiblyt
< 1321049966 948531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too sad
< 1321049971 191355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321049987 986241 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to unsad cleanly ;_;
< 1321050015 581226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :marquis de sad
< 1321050034 775516 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anything about records in she's idiom brackets page
< 1321050036 545535 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1321050112 157435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: like I said, that would _not_ help
< 1321050122 389450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's trivial to make a record with each field wrapped in f
< 1321050122 612317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not see that said
< 1321050127 700951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I showed that above
< 1321050131 832416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is controlling the /ordering/
< 1321050141 677101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with idiom brackets you can just do like ~(flip (+)) to flip the evaluation order, even if that is ugly
< 1321050146 687763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't "flip" a record literal...
< 1321050154 345181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew, finished work for the day, and now I'm too tired to play NetHack
< 1321050157 142884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what should I do instead
< 1321050158 172296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean it'd depend on the order you specified in the fields in
< 1321050162 535464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case let me be the first to say, ewwwwwwwww
< 1321050163 871401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that was my hope
< 1321050166 741152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fail to play nethack
< 1321050167 868390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't mention Feather, I'm too tired for that too)
< 1321050172 608391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well ok it's not THAT bad but...
< 1321050174 349332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ugly but....is it uglier than what you have??
< 1321050176 181211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure i want to use a preprocessor
< 1321050294 690301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :set {field1 = as value1}  set {field1 = as value1}  and  combines a setter with another modification
< 1321050872 910937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the setter being something monadic that preserves order
< 1321050902 10296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how to make it typesafe to check if all fields are set, though
< 1321050914 797190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right. well that's just my [Assign Foo] situation, but ugly :P
< 1321050926 285395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkFoo [field1 := value1, field2 := value2]
< 1321050942 604867 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-61.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: i disappear
< 1321050965 560105 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a recommended way in Haskell to do Dijkstra's algorithm on a procedurally generated graph?
< 1321050972 420209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have any idea what I'm saying
< 1321050978 379524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ideally set {field1 = as value1} should have some type that involved field1 being set, but that's going to be awkward
< 1321051015 421747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you may just want to use http://hackage.haskell.org/package/astar
< 1321051016 945252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something higher rank
< 1321051016 990480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321051038 998077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh you mean so you can't set multiple times?
< 1321051044 897489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well record updates cannot change types, full stop.
< 1321051073 497404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but set might be polymorphic
< 1321051127 243561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: idgi
< 1321051140 473693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the scaffolding to make this actually put the fields in types is probably going to be worse than your solution :P
< 1321051176 368428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the boilerplate can be autogenerated by TH
< 1321051236 938404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well say Foo' takes type arguments that tell the type of each field, and the right argument of =/\> is required to have exactly one of them not being (), or something
< 1321051270 186869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one should be () in something corresponding in the left argument
< 1321051284 750350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means =/\> must be a method, i guess
< 1321051307 175468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would still change the type
< 1321051309 577149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :set :: Polymorphic
< 1321051313 712646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :set{...} :: NotPolymorphic
< 1321051314 873658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not possible
< 1321051341 131105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um of course that is possible, polymorphic values are restricted all the time in haskell :P
< 1321051377 199850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :set would have polymorphic type Foo' f a1 a2 a3
< 1321051408 282368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try it yourself if you don't believe me.
< 1321051485 501686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wtf
< 1321051489 53320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it works, that must have changed
< 1321051526 867049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let x = Identity undefined in (x {runIdentity = True}, x {runIdentity = LT})
< 1321051527 837749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Identity Bool, Identity Ordering)
< 1321051582 126231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well of course the restriction might happen _before_ the modification
< 1321051592 279471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm right
< 1321052071 994564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are a tropical semiring, possibilistic semiring, bottleneck semiring, truncation semiring, Lukasiewicz semiring, division semiring, formal languages semiring, etc?
< 1321052128 948043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a job for you!
< 1321052168 518725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321052179 800619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the answer is: no idea
< 1321052195 565635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i've got a _slight_ hunch some of those might be semirings.
< 1321052208 465764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only some of them.
< 1321052253 715146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wouldn't want to leap to conclusions.
< 1321052261 464981 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they are semirings (I found them in a list of semirings) but I don't know the details of them.
< 1321052261 510270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :might fall and break something.
< 1321052452 304893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read the new new updates?
< 1321052466 667146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: HEY SGEO HAVE YOU READ THE NEW HOMESTUCK UPDATES
< 1321052471 543723 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo|web did you read them????
< 1321052471 697454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321052483 447544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's @ask.
< 1321052494 607003 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Is it?
< 1321052494 885765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321052504 455443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask elliott what is @ask?
< 1321052504 692949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321052513 299541 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look, the same thing.
< 1321052523 602980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf said 25s ago: Is it?
< 1321052523 728885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet asked 15s ago: what is @ask?
< 1321052524 461497 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask elliott I don't remember how it treats them differently, though I do remember that it does.
< 1321052524 618205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321052525 101907 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mauybe
< 1321052525 344354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321052530 322669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the part where CakeProphet is an idiot!
< 1321052530 554297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321052531 514629 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321052547 425320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: man that is so different.
< 1321052557 907527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just being different with differency.
< 1321052562 253589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"said"
< 1321052562 961000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"asked"
< 1321052567 783598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can read.
< 1321052569 746593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks different to me also Gregor answer my question already.
< 1321052619 746445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list ask
< 1321052619 989826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages
< 1321052634 554851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly far too few options
< 1321052722 99407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1321052722 190858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
< 1321052741 302026 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so anyway did you read it?
< 1321052748 497059 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice anything odd?
< 1321052780 824126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you're talking about. I don't speak English.
< 1321052837 226215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice it.
< 1321052884 581957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a vine going up that staircase?
< 1321052886 457364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with that?
< 1321052898 268826 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1321052947 107042 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I bet it's part of some real life MYSTIC RUINS that he desecrates frequently.
< 1321052964 620129 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAH!
< 1321052970 191856 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updates nobody told me about!
< 1321053015 399259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :homestuck eh
< 1321053080 791291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no there was an update to.....esoteric
< 1321053093 764968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321053096 969357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it
< 1321053106 816116 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :libertas
< 1321053133 719610 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321053136 132695 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like libertas
< 1321053138 323580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad update
< 1321053171 155720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was update to
< 1321053173 254071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word esoteric itself
< 1321053176 320845 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321053177 749118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it
< 1321053178 205059 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean
< 1321053178 696215 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1321053181 551598 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321053182 509503 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened
< 1321053196 471857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody knows
< 1321053199 844507 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1321053301 42739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oH no i just thought of...........................another problem with..........m,y system
< 1321053316 567646 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1321053320 664238 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a
< 1321053321 538907 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :big
< 1321053322 281253 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem
< 1321053322 996444 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1321053323 615614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad
< 1321053326 187785 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem
< 1321053343 578676 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst problem? not that bad? oh no
< 1321053423 937170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy:
< 1321053424 439364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkFoo
< 1321053424 484701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(  A := return 42
< 1321053424 484874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::- B := mkBar
< 1321053426 411527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        (  X := getLine
< 1321053428 407314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        :- Y := getLine
< 1321053430 396821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        :- Done )
< 1321053432 396865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::- C := getLine
< 1321053434 428983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::- Done )
< 1321053450 343041 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no??
< 1321053452 208857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what if you want the getLine order to be
< 1321053455 811738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :B.Y, C, B.X
< 1321053460 220979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you rearrange it to do that
< 1321053460 725680 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h,,,,,,,,,m
< 1321053462 604143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: you can't
< 1321053467 50679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only offers ordering within one mkBlah
< 1321053468 523282 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogh no
< 1321053500 467860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :'(
< 1321053507 156039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets us weep
< 1321053510 377794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pls
< 1321053517 531063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor elliott, once again destroyed by his own perfectionism.
< 1321053528 928372 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only imagine fixing it typesafely to be positiviely hideous in haskelle.
< 1321053548 296784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what has this got to do with perfectionism
< 1321053587 58808 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321053613 928293 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321053614 677575 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321053614 722927 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321053639 760725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ask a fish what water has to do with swimming
< 1321053646 16910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aum)
< 1321053658 630956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except that this ordering problem is an actual problem I have.
< 1321053660 527122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will tell you: BLUB
< 1321053677 255798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of the less-safe solutions fix it, either
< 1321053872 225314 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix $ const "elliott's ordering problem"
< 1321053872 974163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "elliott's ordering problem"
< 1321053904 17267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I just stupidly looked at the Discworld wiki.
< 1321053913 425689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character sketches are unbelievably awful.
< 1321053972 319716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I don't think these people have actually looked at Kidby's illustrations or, in some cases, Pratchett's descriptions.
< 1321054012 291475 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321054012 336849 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realise you were a Pratchett fan
< 1321054013 503292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321054016 742120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH DEAR GOD
< 1321054019 47955 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOAJGOPIAESHRGS
< 1321054026 380636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV TROPES RENAMED "THE WESLEY"
< 1321054029 269307 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoajgopiaeshrgs
< 1321054038 602060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what?
< 1321054040 383469 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wacro
< 1321054042 362335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wacro: not found
< 1321054044 131853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro
< 1321054047 177015 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Creator's pet."
< 1321054062 929917 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacro...
< 1321054083 580350 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacro doesn't love you any more.
< 1321054195 263348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh HMmmmmmmmm
< 1321054200 207456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think i could do this.... nomadiclaly
< 1321054202 23933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo now what
< 1321054204 447281 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what
< 1321054210 118426 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1321054237 116072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro
< 1321054240 195415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: except not proper monad
< 1321054300 14972 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1321054326 453600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh!! it is monoid almost.
< 1321054330 478485 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1321054336 932493 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :almosT?? what are you DOING
< 1321054406 840129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: assign :: (FieldOf t field) => field -> f (FieldType field) -> Assign f t (field :- xs); (>>+) :: Assign f t fields -> Assign f t (field :- fields) -> Assign f t (field :- fields); run :: (Complete t fields) => Assign f t fields -> f t
< 1321054415 961671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete t fields if true iff fields contains all fields of f
< 1321054427 925106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feifeiflds here can be full lenses
< 1321054433 87965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1321054441 470118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can compose them to assign submembers in different order
< 1321054446 645753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except hmm i need infrastructure for that
< 1321054452 436729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321054455 718100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the BASIC idea!!!
< 1321054458 975437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be less awful than all of this
< 1321054506 240408 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321054506 506872 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321054506 552139 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321054521 422306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh wait it's actually
< 1321054531 983389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>+) :: Assign f t xs -> Assign f t ys -> Assign f t (xs :++: ys)
< 1321054532 969662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaye
< 1321054557 173646 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the magic is in Complete then??
< 1321054616 831839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I guess so yeah
< 1321054711 98049 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321054754 168475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: HOW DO YOU SPELL FIELD
< 1321054758 227513 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :field
< 1321054773 451328 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless im typo. then it could be ANYTHING
< 1321054775 997265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :feild, feld
< 1321054777 496925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :feld is good
< 1321054789 846741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fdledl
< 1321054791 54523 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever done efild
< 1321054793 153939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.
< 1321054818 790160 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifeld
< 1321054849 61848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show wacro
< 1321054849 350500 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC)
< 1321054884 312040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321054889 962632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro 10
< 1321054904 187659 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacro magic mystery
< 1321054915 771439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: EgoBot is broken, remember
< 1321054926 284446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no it was fixed
< 1321054933 582003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um what's the length of the list of permutations of a list as long as the list itself......
< 1321054938 582968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dum
< 1321054939 530589 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321054943 209318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi";
< 1321054943 882661 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321054950 793584 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321054960 62478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations [a,b,c]
< 1321054960 923058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[a,b,c],[b,a,c],[c,b,a],[b,c,a],[c,a,b],[a,c,b]]
< 1321054965 655442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter ((== 3) . length) $ permutations [a,b,c]
< 1321054967 194549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[a,b,c],[b,a,c],[c,b,a],[b,c,a],[c,a,b],[a,c,b]]
< 1321054967 433620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321054976 894580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: n!
< 1321054987 743733 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ni!
< 1321054994 15205 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnnnn
< 1321055001 791549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah. so this new, simpler approach can handle... 5 fields.
< 1321055008 51183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321055011 966228 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is enough fields for anyone
< 1321055013 208617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually that's not true :P)
< 1321055023 668495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just means I'll have to get more cleverer
< 1321055093 827488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro 50
< 1321055128 929110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor egobot
< 1321055129 74590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot quite recall what was the correct syntax
< 1321055136 300437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that, i think
< 1321055142 971584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [!]wacro
< 1321055153 357016 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor hackego
< 1321055165 464331 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-19.txt:23:36:46:  !wacro
< 1321055170 678899 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacro
< 1321055189 339559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!acro
< 1321055190 187765 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Array found where operator expected at /tmp/input.5546 line 47, at end of line
< 1321055207 503341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321055214 955899 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!macro
< 1321055219 957181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1321055220 123229 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez
< 1321055220 541496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh
< 1321055221 984329 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`macro
< 1321055226 202446 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GEISHAS
< 1321055278 600710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh no i ju st realised something
< 1321055565 456783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 50
< 1321055567 710375 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: words: not found
< 1321055572 251430 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50
< 1321055574 631284 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :qiirricompos andmag abingena trospepit turvklescbitury que dra querg coneleontamonningedur andmianus svitted fuh per otran formair euoncasdationd her beanet everw zeim regafooll miarashiesubao wed nunstchi felton reriv gly antsuperditee hener munglo mming firtyciporones nclards es aslothir fee disfo cusisseo elrodous tent pu
< 1321055580 764521 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you want wacro?
< 1321055589 936495 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro
< 1321055656 729754 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay.
< 1321055672 644543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh no bad thing!!
< 1321055677 451189 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is en-masse moving projects to bitbucket.
< 1321055684 869737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: even the bad ones?
< 1321055690 803738 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, only the ones that are maintained :P
< 1321055700 886858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why is mapM not for applicatives :'(
< 1321055702 618357 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some definition of "maintained")
< 1321055717 321344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll spring my two questions on you, then!
< 1321055743 105312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321055748 236137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (a) Does HackBot support running some code continuously in the background? (usually blocked on a lock or whatever) This would vastly simplify my design. (b) Are you /sure/ I can't use Haskell? You have a recent GHC in /opt!
< 1321055767 174743 :someoneyouhate!~hatehate@184.17.219.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321055785 496139 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (a) As in, user code, or just some other code that's part of the infrastructure?
< 1321055791 440802 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (b) PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
< 1321055799 407805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: traverse
< 1321055804 616994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t traverse
< 1321055805 543604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `traverse'
< 1321055809 580625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321055813 408629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (a) Latter.
< 1321055813 812693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle traverse
< 1321055813 999532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable traverse :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
< 1321055814 119628 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f ()
< 1321055814 164897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies parTraverse :: Traversable t => Strategy a -> Strategy (t a)
< 1321055821 902931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (b) I'M HAVING TO DO FILE LOCKING IN BASH YOU SHITHEAD
< 1321055883 12948 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never said it had to be bash.
< 1321055896 959971 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Latter is fine; I mean, multibot itself is running continuously of course.
< 1321055933 709127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (a) Yeah, but I'm not sure my soul will let me rewrite anything in a language that isn't Haskell :P (b) How do you do it, then
< 1321055967 374054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle mapA
< 1321055967 646902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List mapAccumL :: (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y])
< 1321055967 726545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable mapAccumL :: Traversable t => (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> t b -> (a, t c)
< 1321055967 771727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List mapAccumR :: (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y])
< 1321055969 870583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1321056129 161746 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still don't understand what the issue is.
< 1321056132 537492 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you actually doing?
< 1321056141 561776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: traverse, i said!
< 1321056150 767934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t traverse
< 1321056151 625750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `traverse'
< 1321056158 504822 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty Data.Traversable.traverse
< 1321056159 423947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) b (t :: * -> *). (Data.Traversable.Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
< 1321056159 542516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm
< 1321056163 110011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Shhh, we don't do X-Y problems around these parts.
< 1321056174 426438 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (a) MEH MEH MEH (b) However you want to, just write the program and I can arrange for it to run ...
< 1321056189 663180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: A partial explanation is available if you want one :P
< 1321056195 359813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (b) But I want to give you a working patch :P
< 1321056215 220555 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't understand what your chromosomes have to do with it.
< 1321056236 539791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=542341
< 1321056267 491911 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This would be easy if you were doing it in Haskell.
< 1321056275 644952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what I really need is foldA >:(
< 1321056280 365428 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what "this" is, but that sentence seemed like a good one to say.
< 1321056282 723158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What do you... think I'm... doing...
< 1321056295 510501 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, weren't you using bash?
< 1321056297 279176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldM
< 1321056298 207422 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> b -> m a) -> a -> [b] -> m a
< 1321056314 609922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle foldA
< 1321056314 844920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable module Data.Foldable
< 1321056315 65750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable class Foldable t
< 1321056315 110931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Seq seqFoldable :: Foldable t => Strategy a -> Strategy (t a)
< 1321056320 516103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321056323 688747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Gregor is trying to force me to use bash and/or a non-bash non-Haskell language to do this, but if it's non-bash I have to rewrite it myself, which will make me want to rewrite it in Haskell.
< 1321056332 48508 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The counterpart of the XY problem is the XW problem.
< 1321056333 988797 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I have 11 repos on bitbucket.
< 1321056335 784410 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feels about right.
< 1321056339 841028 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often that one is even more annoying.
< 1321056342 959616 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321056353 483081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: foldA doesn't exist, i think
< 1321056371 441400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that foldM type is intrinsically monadic
< 1321056408 752209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an arrow might work...
< 1321056486 916629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321056507 166204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x l -> foldr (>>>) id (map (flip f) l)
< 1321056508 48371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t c a. (c -> a -> c) -> t -> [a] -> c -> c
< 1321056510 871861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah monqy you need
< 1321056512 115723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321056512 413526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bad news
< 1321056514 369255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :along those lines
< 1321056516 646710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321056517 1548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321056527 547832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x l -> foldr (>>>) pure (map (flip f) l)
< 1321056528 402416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Applicative f) => (a -> a1 -> a) -> t -> [a1] -> a -> f a
< 1321056532 355697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321056541 987042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x l -> foldr (>>>) (arr id) (map (flip f) l)
< 1321056542 829166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t (cat :: * -> * -> *) a a1. (Arrow cat, Functor (cat a)) => cat a (a1 -> a) -> t -> [a1] -> cat a a
< 1321056560 464453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321056569 419495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x l -> foldr (>>>) (arr id) (map (Prelude.flip f) l)
< 1321056570 216712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a a1. (a -> a1 -> a) -> t -> [a1] -> a -> a
< 1321056580 115075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1321056587 136516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1321056608 856179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x l -> foldr (>>>) (arr id) (map f l)
< 1321056609 723015 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t (cat :: * -> * -> *) a a1. (Arrow cat) => (a1 -> cat a a) -> t -> [a1] -> cat a a
< 1321056633 702117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :f needs to come preflipped to be useful with arrows
< 1321056664 668389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm x is never used :P
< 1321056679 411159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i still think that's the closest in spirit
< 1321056706 175541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t under Kleisli
< 1321056706 344287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    No instance for (Complete Foo (x0 :++: (x1 :++: (C :- fields0))))
< 1321056707 51516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b n' o'. (Newtype (Kleisli m a b) (a -> m b), Newtype n' o') => (Kleisli m a b -> n') -> (a -> m b) -> o'
< 1321056741 48635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t op
< 1321056741 942100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n. (Newtype n o) => (o -> n) -> n -> o
< 1321056756 51813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what was that thing
< 1321056766 891778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t as
< 1321056767 664309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `as'
< 1321056869 129582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321056881 657709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala
< 1321056882 464509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n b n' o'. (Newtype n o, Newtype n' o') => (o -> n) -> ((o -> n) -> b -> n') -> b -> o'
< 1321056892 94149 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I wasn't really asleep; did Sgeo|web malfunction and fail to notify of a Homestuck update?
< 1321056911 182881 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there types in Haskell that only have numbers 0 up to 1?
< 1321057033 217117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → probably actual sleep?
< 1321057034 646111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321057138 370957 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321057416 385302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Bool
< 1321057785 798360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/latest/doc/html/Prelude.html#v:until
< 1321057791 904866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh, is that new?
< 1321057800 659364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually I wasn't very clear. I mean that it can store fractions too, so there is infinite number of possible values
< 1321057810 469531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t until
< 1321057811 339693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
< 1321057813 616024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh. Double :p
< 1321057817 242915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's old
< 1321057821 708322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just treat minBound = 0, maxBound = 1
< 1321057828 631260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok at least 6.12 old :P
< 1321057865 827923 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fractions? You don't want to be able to store arbitrary real numbers?
< 1321057887 777872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's in h98
< 1321057906 14807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1321057928 194130 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know Haskell 1.2 had "import Foo renaming (blah to blam)"?
< 1321057944 667620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1321057952 992882 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, they didn't have qualified imports.
< 1321057957 756490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncool.
< 1321057961 827883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, fractions, or arbitrary real numbers, but bounded
< 1321057962 135275 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do notation.
< 1321057964 834992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, is OverlappingInstances one of those things that You Should Never Use?
< 1321057967 319824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like IncoherentInstances.
< 1321057985 765508 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should never use them, yeah. Only I get to use them.
< 1321057985 849853 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you don't know, the answer is probably Yes.
< 1321057992 589229 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Overlapping is acceptable in some situations.
< 1321058001 140834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do know, I just forgot.
< 1321058001 692912 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on Credible Sources
< 1321058007 693517 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I Don't Remember The Source Of
< 1321058008 611259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm definitely doing Perverse Type Hackery.
< 1321058021 427353 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IncoherentInstances?
< 1321058034 503914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly elliott should use overlappinginstances to dig himself in further
< 1321058052 655327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can avoid them, it'd just involve another Equ
< 1321058056 598563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class ElemA xs
< 1321058056 791548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance ElemA (A :- xs)
< 1321058056 836874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (ElemA xs) => ElemA (x :- xs)
< 1321058057 802545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the usecase
< 1321058192 557393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1321058262 728739 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a real shame that simplification of Chinese characters hasn't focused on making characters have a clear pairing of semantic and phonetic components (and thus easier to learn), but instead on reducing the number of strokes in a certain list of characters.
< 1321058271 839410 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :鬱 Consider that.
< 1321058324 102550 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is really obnoxious to learn, in large part because there's no real way of grasping it as having a simple, clear structure.
< 1321058330 387646 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So incoherentinstances removes a sanity check that overlappinginstances provides?
< 1321058342 552098 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321058359 816207 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phonetic component of it is, apparently, 𩰪(probably not available in your font).
< 1321058374 389196 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just fucking evil.
< 1321058380 712630 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://glyphwiki.org/wiki/u29c2a
< 1321058499 419005 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321058509 957601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> foldr (<*>) (pure x)
< 1321058510 768015 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) b. (Applicative f) => b -> [f (b -> b)] -> f b
< 1321058513 962069 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321058518 512498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> [f (a -> a)] -> f a
< 1321058519 16661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<**>) :: Applicative f => f a -> f (a -> b) -> f b
< 1321058519 160548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
< 1321058519 205849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad ap :: Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
< 1321058521 738938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :(
< 1321058538 102746 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321058538 737925 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321058538 783346 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321058602 443965 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321058680 531584 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://glyphwiki.org/wiki/u2387d
< 1321058688 344452 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's missing the forest for the trees
< 1321058741 215566 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet
< 1321058748 348954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-/ turning
< 1321058752 72276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Foo a b | b -> a
< 1321058752 653023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into
< 1321058760 51461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Foo b where type A b
< 1321058764 279937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is turning my instances into undecidable ones
< 1321058771 321756 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some bastard must have thought they were "smart" repeating the 木林森 pattern.
< 1321058773 34928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries.
< 1321058835 315779 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've decided... decided...
< 1321058920 896337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: anyway it is less horrific now???
< 1321058939 522 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321058940 352496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im back from
< 1321058944 589479 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being here
< 1321058946 449798 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happeneD??
< 1321058997 889055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Functional dependencies conflict between instance declarations:
< 1321058998 39213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      instance [overlap ok] (ElemA xs, ElemB xs, ElemC xs) =>
< 1321058998 84761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            Complete Foo xs
< 1321058998 84931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        -- Defined at /home/elliott/Code/form-test/form-test.hs:68:10-58
< 1321058998 85033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      instance [overlap ok] Complete Bar Nil
< 1321058998 870414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        -- Defined at /home/elliott/Code/form-test/form-test.hs:73:10-25
< 1321059000 728954 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think i left soon before 15:47:57 < elliott> monqy: oh no i ju st realised something)
< 1321059000 891138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh NOooooooooo
< 1321059004 345463 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1321059032 947724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh i get it
< 1321059038 774602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fundep is wrnog
< 1321059066 241827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway!!!
< 1321059077 538608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :t (=:)
< 1321059077 584054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=:)
< 1321059077 584204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :: (Field field, Applicative f) =>
< 1321059077 584305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     field
< 1321059077 584402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     -> f (FieldType field)
< 1321059078 135883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     -> Assign f (FieldRecord field) (field :- Nil)
< 1321059079 477306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :t (<>)
< 1321059081 541104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<>)
< 1321059083 420258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :: Applicative f =>
< 1321059085 523566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Assign f t xs -> Assign f t ys -> Assign f t (xs :++: ys)
< 1321059087 436092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :t run
< 1321059089 524982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :run
< 1321059091 615639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :: (Complete t fields, Applicative f) => Assign f t fields -> f t
< 1321059093 524996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: behlod
< 1321059097 882259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beholdieng
< 1321059114 743626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exmample:
< 1321059116 374909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: IO Foo
< 1321059116 516104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test =
< 1321059116 561490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  run $ A =: getLine
< 1321059116 561654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     <> B =: return 42
< 1321059116 561756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     <> C =: return pi
< 1321059135 140257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1321059155 831813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ANYWAY so the good part of the Bad Realisation is that I think there is a way to do the proper interleaving of effects with nested records like I said and the like
< 1321059161 639297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the bad part is that.... its arowes
< 1321059169 478449 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321059186 858098 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any
< 1321059187 663240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other
< 1321059188 149824 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :way
< 1321059198 55909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dont onknow. unfrtuoatenyl.
< 1321059275 703305 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321059279 429574 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would the arrowes
< 1321059280 223161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look
< 1321059287 795301 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's pretty, is there problems??
< 1321059295 692486 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asside from arrows being...arrows
< 1321059315 224409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anynway!!!!
< 1321059319 213305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://sprunge.us/SSSU
< 1321059322 154037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :behlod. simpler.
< 1321059323 851737 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sssu
< 1321059339 167580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits between -- are autogenerated apart from the Foo declaration itself of course
< 1321059350 949845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, would be autogenerated.
< 1321059439 348283 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would the names of A B C be genreateD? similarly to the lenses schemes?
< 1321059485 767648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the foo record
< 1321059494 785652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd actually be FooA/FooB/FooC
< 1321059496 585181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am: lazy
< 1321059512 289151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems here are basically (a) doesn't interoperate with lenses???? and (b) no interlevying
< 1321059577 250707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeah what if the initial character has no uppercase lettery version most notablye _ as in the lensy names which is what (a) might mean??
< 1321059666 92122 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B589.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321059762 907352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh then it just fails or mangles i guess...... (a) mostly means that it's implementing its own stuff which is PRETETETY DARNE CLOSE TO LSENSES!
< 1321059795 244337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im clod.
< 1321059796 576929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lense btu diferent
< 1321059846 46925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while trying to improve this:
< 1321059847 669733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match type `No' with `Yes'
< 1321059847 717068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the expression: run
< 1321059847 785354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the expression: run $ A =: getLine <> C =: return pi
< 1321059847 830937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In an equation for `test':
< 1321059848 613188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        test = run $ A =: getLine <> C =: return pi
< 1321059853 165107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure have made the messages useful!!!
< 1321059899 541454 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did something wrong but i wont say what it is........... - ghc
< 1321059910 332523 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a secret - ghc
< 1321059960 450519 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321060103 236937 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321060210 769994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it should just say
< 1321060215 239359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: wrong
< 1321060225 919456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better
< 1321060227 893837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ghc badprogram.hs
< 1321060228 223774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321060228 720564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$
< 1321060308 973449 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ghc
< 1321060417 571566 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it clearly says there's a type error in the expression "run"
< 1321060421 959323 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the confusion?
< 1321060435 419717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you being serious?
< 1321060450 811550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1321060464 669044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lol.
< 1321060466 205886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SO FUCKING COLD
< 1321060478 185551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like seriously there's only one place it's wrong.
< 1321060490 956971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: fun fact: the error isn't in run there
< 1321060509 361756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURELY IT IS. GHC WOULD NEVER LIE.
< 1321060534 205472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, is in the error in some sort of insane type hackery?
< 1321060593 104660 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else
< 1321060613 885267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... that's why the error message isn't helpful. :P
< 1321060689 272715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelatedly, there are some insanely cheap deals on audio stuff right now.
< 1321060702 411163 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowza, audio stuff
< 1321060797 836352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 watt 12" sub with built-in amp for $170
< 1321061071 829818 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321061075 715831 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc goodprogram.c
< 1321061216 385947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc is actually a C compiler too, you know.
< 1321061249 977560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ echo 'int main(){return 42;}' >foo.c
< 1321061250 22941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ ghc --make foo.c
< 1321061250 91945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ ./a.out
< 1321061250 137338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky Temp]$ echo $?
< 1321061250 137507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :42
< 1321061326 959208 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dinky is a stupid name.
< 1321061336 948356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counterpoint: You're stupid.
< 1321061447 231154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftA2 (.)
< 1321061448 133160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Applicative f1) => f1 (a -> b) -> f1 (f a) -> f1 (f b)
< 1321061457 885241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAAAAAAALE
< 1321061459 11895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftA2 (P..)
< 1321061459 940368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module.
< 1321061460 611396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftA2 (Prelude..)
< 1321061461 559727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => f (b -> c) -> f (a -> b) -> f (a -> c)
< 1321061476 266696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should have a name.
< 1321061484 191914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle f (b -> c) -> f (a -> b) -> f (a -> c)
< 1321061484 394588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhereBut :: GenericQ Bool -> GenericT -> GenericT
< 1321061707 825815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to a biannual Security Intelligence Report from Microsoft, AutoRun—the feature in Windows that automatically executes files when you plug in a USB or connect to a network—accounts for almost half of all malware infections."
< 1321061712 293244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking revelation.
< 1321061751 751275 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a BoundFrac type which can be used with any type and then it makes it error if the result is not in range
< 1321061762 724860 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321062581 613599 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321062607 740032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sooo, where would I actually modify to get a background process in HackBot?
< 1321062613 923174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to track down and modify the multibot source itself?
< 1321062893 854099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, more importantly: In tr_60.cmd, where's some scratch space I can use for temporary files?
< 1321062899 138960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I need to share them amongst invocations of tr_60.cmd.)
< 1321063058 544297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyurl.com/72p9aoj  $250 off a set of 5.1 surround speakers
< 1321063060 933501 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. tempting.
< 1321063766 658915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, Gregor should have anticipated all my questions and answered them before I asked them
< 1321063774 535728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have another one now!
< 1321063896 455050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw are you planning to play Skyrim at some point?
< 1321063907 481921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. I asked you whether it sucked or not.
< 1321063920 203617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it seems 1.1 fixed the worst bugs
< 1321063924 857456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I ran into
< 1321063928 352471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know about skyrim is you can put barrels over people's heads
< 1321063942 514755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, I wasn't aware of that
< 1321063942 911082 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh and there was some fixed bug where mammoths had trouble staying on the ground
< 1321063955 800731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can due to it having a physics engine
< 1321063968 631194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wasn't asking about the bugs.
< 1321063972 425441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, one general enough to handle stuff in barrels in general
< 1321063990 651518 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a Bethesda game if it doesn't have mammoth bugs
< 1321064013 706844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was some video that demonstrated if you put barrels over everyone's heads you can steal things but if you take the barrels off people get angry when you steal
< 1321064019 764093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well apart from the bugs there is one thing that annoy me. The HUD / menus design is too modern, both when it comes to the typeface and the icons used.
< 1321064050 739409 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321064051 136696 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321064051 181980 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321064058 49687 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does too modern mean? as in it clashes with the pasty feel of the rest of the game?
< 1321064085 272797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, other than that I would say that if you enjoyed Oblivion you will enjoy this one. There are some gameplay changes. Most (but not all) that I would consider improvements. Of course, that last point is rather subjective.
< 1321064158 332373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't played Oblivion :P
< 1321064158 563894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, as in, it doesn't really fit in with the medieval feel of the actual game. The font is a sans-serif for example. I don't think it is helvetica, but it would fit in just as poorly if it was.
< 1321064185 164462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other Skyrim anachronisms: It's played on a computer.
< 1321064193 84933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, $IRC_SOCK is an absolute path, right?
< 1321064232 594252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, then it comes down to if you enjoy massive open world RPGs. Unlike oblivion, where you start out with fast travel to the big cities (and have to discover the rest of the fast travel locations by exploring), you can't fast travel anywhere in Skyrim until you explore to there.
< 1321064244 652712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... lots of walking involved to begin with
< 1321064257 775155 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321064285 22369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the variable for "number of arguments received" in bash again
< 1321064304 741706 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does each major city still contain less than a hundred inhabitants?
< 1321064318 721310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Other Skyrim anachronisms: It's played on a computer. <-- very funny. Oblivion used a type face that had an medieval feeling, while still not being as unreadable as "Olde English" style fonts.
< 1321064341 748098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and the menu system was clearly designed with a gamepad in mind.
< 1321064353 340215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with mouse and keyboard, sure
< 1321064359 700871 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Also, $IRC_SOCK is an absolute path, right? // y es
< 1321064360 129177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, not optimal perhaps
< 1321064372 984426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Y es?
< 1321064448 375653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course, the actual navigation in the menu system of oblivion was truly hideous. That bit is much better in Skyrim. It is just that the graphical design of said menu system was /way/ better in Oblivion.
< 1321064473 323534 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of a big conspiracy to make you buy an xbox
< 1321064489 288172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, what, and get worse graphics?
< 1321064516 707718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:  Gregor: Sooo, where would I actually modify to get a background process in HackBot?   Do I have to track down and modify the multibot source itself?   Gregor: Also, more importantly: In tr_60.cmd, where's some scratch space I can use for temporary files?
< 1321064520 681551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are all the questions... I think :P
< 1321064557 757348 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I will have to do something to make it run a background process externally. The script that spawns multibot is not part of the repo.
< 1321064572 755009 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) No. Modifying multibot for this makes no sense.
< 1321064574 929849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, oh yeah, that is another issue. Skyrim was designed with consoles in mind when it came to the graphics too. I played Witcher 2 as well, which was designed with PC in mind only (and only later was it decided to port it to consoles). Witcher 2 had *much* better graphics than Skyrim has.
< 1321064580 799307 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) /tmp
< 1321064592 149705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:  (I need to share them amongst invocations of tr_60.cmd.)
< 1321064602 283656 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321064611 729798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean like /tmp/hackbot.hope-you-never-want-to-run-more-than-one-hackbot-at-once
< 1321064613 925756 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you mean within the execution of a guest program, or just in tr_60.cmd itself?
< 1321064618 144792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter.
< 1321064620 651992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for storing transaction info.
< 1321064632 386567 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a multiple instances issue.
< 1321064641 940910 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir $IRC_SOCK.tmp :P
< 1321064659 423713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not an "issue", so much as "communication".
< 1321064675 121758 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple instances of HackBot that is.
< 1321064694 325161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh yeah, the additional question is: If HackEgo sees `a then `b, is there any chance of the latter getting started before the former? ... I guess there is, bash could call a syscall which could block for long enough to blah blah blah.
< 1321064736 64159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which is annoying, because I want as-if-sequential semantics >_>
< 1321064740 306056 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $# ?
< 1321064752 75173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it only matters if you send two messages in one syscall and the buffer flushes and etc. etc., but still :P
< 1321064756 739804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Over the network)
< 1321064759 618131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Yep, found that, thanks :P
< 1321064856 962396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyhow, I have a bundle of changes I've made on the way to doing this if you're interested in getting some of the breakage out of the way earlier :P
< 1321064863 501064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, there you have it for Skyrim. Personally I think it is worth playing, but then I liked Oblivion too. But gameplay wise it is much better. Oblivion's dungeons were quite similar. There were a few basic designs for the style, like "ancient ruin tiles", "modern ruin tiles" and so on, except it didn't use tiles afaik. There seems to be a much larger variety for such things in Skyrim.
< 1321064866 54207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's just (a) slight cleanups and (b) changes I've made to make the transactional stuff easier.)
< 1321064883 599680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How good are the dragons, that's pretty much the only thing I care about in a game. (Note: Maybe false.))
< 1321064886 900695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/))/)/
< 1321064902 801140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, haven't really gotten that far in the game yet. I got side tracked by sidequests XD
< 1321064912 129119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sidetracked*
< 1321064937 793110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so while the intro features a dragon, you basically have to flee from it at that point.
< 1321064938 504532 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears.
< 1321064954 97597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't get a close look at it at that point really
< 1321064965 986464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, guess I will be able to report on that later.
< 1321064969 255368 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, `b can "get started" before `a, that ... doesn't even make sense otherwise. The only way to avoid that would be to handle them all sequentially.
< 1321064984 480377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, it would just require /starting/ them sequentially :P
< 1321064994 716647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But various factors could easily desynchronise them at that point, so *shrug*
< 1321065019 611868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reimplement it on a RTOS
< 1321065094 582189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm playing on ultra graphics settings with no issues btw.
< 1321065116 753656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :your toshiba might not be beefy enough though
< 1321065121 442612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Here's another question... why do you do `head -c 16384` when IRC lines aren't actually allowed to even be that long :P
< 1321065124 514734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It definitely isn't.
< 1321065129 562609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321065150 944817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how much dedicated graphics ram?
< 1321065160 354767 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just to stop programs from running if they're producing gobs of output. I just want a dead pipe.
< 1321065167 468449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No frickin' idea, but come on, the CPU is less than one GHz.
< 1321065169 282956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right
< 1321065193 553420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321065200 788710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think 2 GHz was minimum
< 1321065202 178423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmmwait
< 1321065203 348276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1321065211 410445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, never mind
< 1321065220 28806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in "core 2 duo 2.0 GHz or better"
< 1321065247 199375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, uh, as far as I can tell, you sleep for 30 seconds regardless of whether or not the process in question finishes or not.
< 1321065248 911061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :recommended was quad core system
< 1321065254 746039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have a lot of processes just sleeping 30 all the time :P
< 1321065358 386833 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup. Difficult not to in bash.
< 1321065361 220358 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4faf5.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321065365 603334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, just realised that >__>
< 1321065372 276659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why the hell doesn't bash have alarm after how-many-decades
< 1321065379 726879 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait ...
< 1321065382 787237 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I fixed that ...
< 1321065395 419470 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I didn't :)
< 1321065406 709587 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, because it would need either something like alarm or conditional wait.
< 1321065460 886900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does DCC SEND work for you?
< 1321065470 915069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and if you run it from an SSD you won't be able read the hints displayed on the loading screens. It is just too fast. It seems yogscast ran it from an HDD because they complained about the slow loading screens.
< 1321065481 601132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for me on an SSD it is about 2-4 seconds
< 1321065501 616954 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Considering that it never uses it, Idonno.
< 1321065509 318186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, I mean, you personally :P
< 1321065511 761703 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321065515 87434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer email ...
< 1321065519 582193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, email exists!
< 1321065524 743767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely forgot...
< 1321065536 866663 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely fungot!
< 1321065537 299159 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: unless you want to become like larry wall, maybe?) area of memory to a file."? me, soegaard?
< 1321065540 87502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Incidentally, what repo are you working off of?
< 1321065549 272344 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I moved hackbot with a bunch of other projects, it's on bitbucket now (same repo though)
< 1321065564 720102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, I'll update my hgrc and do a pull request thing then
< 1321065570 493219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds appropriately fancy
< 1321065576 695318 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay pull request :P
< 1321065578 995856 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dinner*
< 1321065679 767735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/1/stuff
< 1321065682 385753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENJOY YOUR DINNER, FASCIST.
< 1321065866 610596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/1/stuff
< 1321065868 679500 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-12 02:44:28 URL:https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/1/stuff [20286] -> "stuff" [1]
< 1321065871 650905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely forget how hideous `fetch's output is.
< 1321065874 916735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh btw, weird thing in char creation: every option is a slider. Even the gender one. However it boringly only has two value
< 1321065884 158037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm stuff
< 1321065886 107484 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321065918 375600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch sdfjsdfjkl
< 1321065919 797858 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget: unable to resolve host address `sdfjsdfjkl'
< 1321065925 470249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not as bad as I recall
< 1321065991 377851 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321066192 415021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think modifying multibot to run the background job /does/ make sense, because it needs to be able to send messages... or is that created before running multibot?
< 1321066193 873961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is.
< 1321066352 946323 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321066375 736772 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bluh bluh update bluh bluh, although it was quite some minutes ago
< 1321066475 184787 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321066475 843376 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321066475 888646 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321066690 728235 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1321066739 866460 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bach no Senritsu o Yoru ni Kiita Sei Desu." That is definitely the strangest romanisation job ever, why would you romanise バッハ (Hepburn: bahha, mine: hà'ha) that way?
< 1321066758 287692 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, aside from バッハ being Japanese for "Bach".
< 1321066761 246836 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321066845 607264 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some days I feel like replacing Japanese orthography with romaji would just make Japanese writing more irregular.
< 1321066867 28962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321067463 60326 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321068065 132181 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321068271 639636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made the program for normalizable semirings!
< 1321068315 172864 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they ever use that term in mathematics? My program has classes for normalizable monoids, though.
< 1321068609 144327 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4faf5.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1321068645 795107 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Did elliott just break everything?
< 1321068647 672787 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did elliott just break everything?
< 1321068655 354670 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive.
< 1321068664 247415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It...
< 1321068666 417381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it still work?
< 1321068668 632633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi >a
< 1321068670 523373 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321068671 721675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat a
< 1321068674 214953 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321068676 50008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm a
< 1321068677 886069 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321068679 192182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm shocked :P
< 1321068682 493596 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same 'ere.
< 1321068684 304754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :Lymia
< 1321068687 669956 :Lymia!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`stupid
< 1321068687 876248 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm ... no.
< 1321068691 390440 :Lymia!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott
< 1321068692 931089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :P
< 1321068699 146357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://google.com
< 1321068700 503575 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-12 03:31:40 URL:http://www.google.com/ [10696] -> "index.html" [1]
< 1321068704 22176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm index.html
< 1321068706 78864 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321068754 81876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes
< 1321068756 144807 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
< 1321068765 473074 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG THAT LINE IS SO LONG
< 1321068775 33891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a whole 100 characters longer :P
< 1321068790 453560 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo lol > .hg/foo
< 1321068790 606265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See my commit message for CALCULATIONS plus estimate of margin of safety.
< 1321068792 200967 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: .hg/foo: Read-only file system
< 1321068798 205698 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I saw.
< 1321068807 483366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, I think my revert command might not work...
< 1321068812 642341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi > a
< 1321068814 567599 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321068817 990453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run revert
< 1321068819 642840 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: revert: command not found
< 1321068833 203125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whuh
< 1321068837 322500 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1321068838 648809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321068843 92079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! I didn't add it yet :P
< 1321068844 534335 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1321068846 525224 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lastquote \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
< 1321068850 959355 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooohkidokie :P
< 1321068852 793761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah, it's just that I removed revert :P
< 1321068855 382307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my local copy
< 1321068860 888795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking it could be done with a bin/ thing
< 1321068895 50834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But obviously not
< 1321068897 28239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib/revert it is
< 1321068953 886220 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welllllllllll, it is doable with something in bin, but it's better to have an out-of-channel method.
< 1321068972 301090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's... sort of doable, but you could break it horribly and make people `revert manually :P
< 1321068988 533228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can set up an environment var (path to unix socket) that tr_60.cmd will see, right?
< 1321068999 899140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And redirect a probably-Python program's stdin from it? :P
< 1321069007 642641 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1321069016 28608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually hmm, not sure Unix socket will work >_>
< 1321069020 360560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when two people write to a Unix socket at once
< 1321069199 527136 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :An individual call to write/send will always produce an in-order packet.
< 1321069204 146705 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But multiple calls can be interleaved.
< 1321069216 959335 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note for comparison: X11 works.
< 1321069219 586574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're the chances of socat sending <512 bytes with a single write/send?
< 1321069224 375633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, X11 is based on a single Unix socket?
< 1321069225 883416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alrighty then :P
< 1321069237 510653 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite any more, but classically.
< 1321069240 588364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How did they overengineer everything but that?)
< 1321069244 183181 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it has shm and other tricks too.
< 1321069351 824822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should add the running script to the repo so I can test this thing :P
< 1321069374 794233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, last attempt: Are you suuuuuuuure I can't write the script in Haskell????
< 1321069425 187350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me what packages I need if I import:  Control.Applicative Control.Category Control.Monad Control.Monad.Trans.Writer Data.Functor.Contravariant Data.List Data.Monoid Data.Ord Data.Semigroup
< 1321069460 297579 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db403d8.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321069501 923237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: base, semigroups, contravariant, methinks
< 1321069560 618552 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtl?
< 1321069585 676458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Nope
< 1321069588 966312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Trans. == transformers
< 1321069592 315802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: base, transformers, semigroups, contravariant, methinks
< 1321069644 344554 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321069644 971663 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321069645 17073 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321069744 724412 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I know what version numbers I need to specify?
< 1321069820 180798 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321069922 779256 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321069923 285591 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321069923 330907 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321070149 958255 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321070573 310639 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321071066 707725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You, uh, did fix it
< 1321071071 837405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox-nice has a timeout
< 1321071102 806476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That doesn't solve it for `fetch though.
< 1321071121 256180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tempted to say that it's better to do it outside of UMLBox.
< 1321071339 224484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /home
< 1321071341 57704 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot
< 1321071343 785094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /home/hackbot
< 1321071345 838865 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot.hg
< 1321071348 590330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321071606 430745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, timing out from within UMLBox has the advantage that you get partial output from timed-out commands.
< 1321071616 982728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's defeated by the global timeout though :P
< 1321071666 491885 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That redundancy is to avoid bugs.
< 1321071670 483879 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't take it out.
< 1321071928 728368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bugs like what?
< 1321071934 559142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just curious.
< 1321071955 828317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm keeping it, I'll at least make the global timeout 35, so that you get the partial output thing :P
< 1321071987 961253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has everything but the server done... so everything but the hard part :P
< 1321072275 947221 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /think/ any remain.
< 1321072283 213001 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a stopgap.
< 1321072304 630751 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I suppose nothing's stopping `fetch http://fiftygigfile.com right now :P
< 1321072334 50347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes there is.
< 1321072335 794688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The outer timeout
< 1321072380 613706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the ulimit :P
< 1321072391 97345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I send the package correctly?
< 1321072399 911448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ?
< 1321072404 273540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My sandbox script enables UMLBox's timeout, and the fetch one uses a sleep, so that should be enough, but I'll add a 35-second timeout to the server just in case...
< 1321072408 155725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The revert script has no timeout :P
< 1321072424 502804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the "monoidplus" package
< 1321072523 477692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/monoidplus
< 1321072532 278817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot to specify version constraints on your dependencies
< 1321072560 635973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you have a typo in Plus.lhs: "tyep" :)
< 1321072564 444060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I looked at those three packages, and both the oldest version and newest version have those things
< 1321072576 446768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, but the version released tomorrow might not.
< 1321072595 901986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. Yes.
< 1321072601 876601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And OK I will fix the typo, too
< 1321072611 696485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: contravariant == 0.1.*, semigroups > 0.1 & < 0.9, transformers < 0.3 should do it
< 1321072616 490997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the package versioning policy
< 1321072619 846594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which all three of those packages follow
< 1321072639 418877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK thank you
< 1321072712 900217 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the package versioning policy?
< 1321072766 591911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Package_versioning_policy
< 1321072917 943868 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: My sandbox script enables UMLBox's timeout, and the fetch one uses a sleep, so that should be enough, but I'll add a 35-second timeout to the server just in case...
< 1321072925 36076 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH, yeah, umlbox does have a timeout, dunnit X-D
< 1321072930 616540 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that should be sufficient.
< 1321072935 28637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1321072936 397100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't also need the silly sleep.
< 1321072942 901961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You even use the timeout currently :P
< 1321072946 110408 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant having both an external and an internal timeout is important.
< 1321072981 112723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that mean
< 1321072996 733943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, internal as in "sleep 10; kill" in the shell?
< 1321072997 711947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. So, once I fixed these mistakes would I use 0.1.0.1 as the new version number of my package? Since I didn't change any types, entities, definitions, instances, add new stuff. I haven't depend on a newer version of any package. So is this correct?
< 1321073000 125246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, in the shell inside UMLBox
< 1321073009 969392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'Cuz currently, you don't have an "internal" timeout.
< 1321073013 317207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yep
< 1321073025 910654 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK thanks
< 1321073031 681037 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fix it now.
< 1321073039 460233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, can you select() on both a fd and a process exiting in Unix...?
< 1321073044 377997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just use threads :P
< 1321073045 291500 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to reremember this shit :P
< 1321073045 743611 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321073069 175547 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is uploading
< 1321073078 685743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess I took the ulimit -t out of limits.
< 1321073083 8876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there is in fact no internal one.
< 1321073085 107832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well :P
< 1321073090 636193 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox -T really ought to be enough.
< 1321073267 470741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good now?
< 1321073309 108074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yep
< 1321073343 467315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So any chance I could get ahold of your starting script? Chances of this thing working first time are rapidly dropping :P
< 1321073352 487773 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfffffffff
< 1321073428 67828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, the optimisation I thought of might not work...
< 1321073437 272744 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321073437 911218 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://sprunge.us/JfEO
< 1321073451 920212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to avoid doing a clone entirely, since there will never be any merges, and instead just get a working tree, since commits are done sequentially
< 1321073459 627007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT, that breaks revert, which doesn't like -R
< 1321073544 269995 :CakeProphet!~eris@h184-60-161-54.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321073545 50032 :CakeProphet!~eris@h184-60-161-54.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321073545 95275 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321073637 533510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Thanks, BTW
< 1321073650 982837 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not like it does anything :P
< 1321073654 259699 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321073664 296133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It'll have to create a socket and start a script soon enough! :P
< 1321073681 879355 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version constraints would be much cooler if different packages with different constraints could live on the same system (possibly not necessarily such that you can use those packages together, but that would be even cooler if you could)
< 1321073682 529453 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321073701 81116 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use such packages together
< 1321073736 756826 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have the ... automaitc thingy rename the different versions of the one module to different things, and have the two packages use those, without the programmer worrying about it
< 1321073746 719327 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might cause some issues with the unsafePerformIO trick for globals, though
< 1321073778 976417 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't use unsafePerformIO in those cases. That is why it is called "unsafe".
< 1321073818 148708 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, the issue is more dealing with arbitrary modules, and I do not author every single Haskell module.
< 1321073843 146768 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it can be statically determined whether a module uses such a trick
< 1321073853 530781 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or has the potential to and is faking out on using it
< 1321073861 328427 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And exclude those from the system?
< 1321073882 891380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you specify in the "import" command which package you want to import from, in case there is more than one such package? Can you specify a range of versions in the import command?
< 1321073904 267956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: How would that break things
< 1321073917 474526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There is an extension for that; no versioning
< 1321073936 143113 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Older and newer version of some library that wants to maintain a global lock for some reason
< 1321073952 920803 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project as compiled ends up using both, which live in different namespaces, meaning no more global lock
< 1321074361 122191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh my god.
< 1321074364 842181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh my god.
< 1321074377 58436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: shachaf: I just figured out what I need to pass to hg status to find out if a HackEgo command changed anything.
< 1321074380 814276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is -- and I shit you not --
< 1321074382 960590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg status -umad
< 1321074401 207668 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u called?
< 1321074401 607091 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul
< 1321074489 567147 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321074490 73645 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321074490 119445 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321074629 277944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What is it with the .orig rm -rf
< 1321074704 857983 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321074784 477308 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hg revert leaves .orig files futzing about.
< 1321074790 65336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh
< 1321074834 268716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just gonna leave it like that until this works, because then I'll make it do a checkout, and write my own revert that doesn't need a full clone :P
< 1321074843 916981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, without the removal, since I don't wanna translate it to Python)
< 1321075094 185183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, I think I'll be able to send a pull request in 30 minutes at the most (without testing) :P
< 1321075103 856597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably all in one commit, oops >_>
< 1321075120 750063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the AGE OF THE TRANSACTIONAL MACHINE WILL BEGIN MWAHAHAHAHA
< 1321075203 858839 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg record
< 1321075462 487184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There's no way I could sanely split this into multiple commits :P
< 1321075481 391764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I could, but it'd be 100% nonfunctional at each step.
< 1321075498 841966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully it's not that big a diff :P
< 1321076516 303048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321076545 889522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HOKAY
< 1321076556 66432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You available for testing this thing out? :P
< 1321076751 133033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Behold: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/2/transactional-hackego
< 1321076764 427632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would make a backup of the repository first :)
< 1321076855 494494 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally untested I assume.
< 1321076862 557923 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost 1AM ... I'll try it tomorrow :P
< 1321076907 713118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Baaah :P
< 1321076921 257405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The best time to fix the myriad of bugs I've created is when I can still remember what all this does! :P
< 1321076934 358876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oop, just found one!
< 1321076984 473839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixx't
< 1321077023 710249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh well, make sure I'm around tomorrow for damage control :P
< 1321077766 85534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I take it my cheque's in the mail for all this FREE WORK I'm doin' :P
< 1321077919 317992 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is no work to pay for the cheque should be blank, right?
< 1321078105 82054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: HERE'S THE WORK TO PAY FOR: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/2/transactional-hackego
< 1321078216 214124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to do anything with the package I send to make the webpage show the exported functions and so on of the module? What do I need to do to work it?
< 1321078218 443073 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a haskell
< 1321078236 566615 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not haskell
< 1321078668 531591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it takes ~6 hours max for haddock docs to be generated
< 1321078674 68512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Gregor said I couldn't use Haskell. :'(
< 1321078685 314942 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321078700 592845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but thankfully the problem is a glorified FFI ask so Python sufficed >:)
< 1321078855 815511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: here's the fun (terrifying) stuff: https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/src/02ec1863c274/multibot_cmds/lib/server#cl-39
< 1321078859 382560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the actual transaction logic)
< 1321078932 129000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i found a bug
< 1321078933 170205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes
< 1321079619 914459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ooh... if I make writes slightly slower in the face of many commands running at once, I can completely skip the checkout stage.
< 1321079624 292376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would speed the bot up massively.
< 1321079686 59312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... wait, no. It would need a libc replacement :(
< 1321079687 242574 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1321080111 358076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321080120 905494 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321080604 131912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`strace
< 1321080605 964328 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: strace: not found
< 1321081069 124393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`touch /home/hackbot/test
< 1321081070 904300 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch: cannot touch `/home/hackbot/test': Permission denied
< 1321081072 406271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1321081454 549491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor So, here's an idea I came up with that speeds up the common case a lot at the cost of slowing down writes: Don't make a clone, just operate on the repo's working copy itself.
< 1321081454 663915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Run programs under strace -e trace=open,mkdir,rename (I've tested this locally, the performance impact is negligible).
< 1321081454 709388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Whenever you detect that /any/ process has done a write, abort all processes, reset the working copy to the tip revision, and then run the write process sequentially and commit the result.
< 1321081454 709541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Once that goes through, restart the rest of the transactions from scratch.
< 1321081454 709643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081454 922184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081455 47343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081455 93810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081456 24761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor The result is that commands that don't write run at full speed with no clone overhead, but commands that make writes always have to run at least twice, and concurrent write performance is abysmal.
< 1321081456 253955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081458 970393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor I think this is a reasonable trade-off, but let me know what you think.
< 1321081459 226043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081461 9003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor (Since nobody uses `unquote, I'm planning to remove the writing stuff from `quote/`addquote so that read-only becomes the common case again :P)
< 1321081461 156246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321081587 201550 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321081589 320550 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :463)  Deewiant: Well, I guess you could argue so. But to me a it's not a real clobbering if you can still tell there was something that got clobbered.
< 1321081657 165120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well do it now.
< 1321081657 867868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321081658 890379 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321081677 601523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/unquote
< 1321081679 615368 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321081689 815541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm lastquote
< 1321081691 698543 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321081712 496236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -n +1 bin/quote
< 1321081714 516977 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \     if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \         sed "$1q;d" \     else \         egrep -i -- "$1" \     fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi | tee lastquote
< 1321081718 77691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -n +1 bin/addquote
< 1321081719 957065 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ [ "$1" ] || exit 1 \ printf "%s\n" "$1" >>quotes \ echo $(qc | cut -d' ' -f1 | tee lastquote)") $1"
< 1321081724 700475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -n +2 bin/addquote
< 1321081726 660136 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[ "$1" ] || exit 1 \ printf "%s\n" "$1" >>quotes \ echo $(qc | cut -d' ' -f1 | tee lastquote)") $1"
< 1321081730 594659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run head -n +2 bin/addquote
< 1321081732 597732 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ [ "$1" ] || exit 1
< 1321081741 837213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run head -n +3 bin/addquote >x; mv x bin/addquote
< 1321081744 352792 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321081754 802045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/ | tee lastquote//' bin/quote
< 1321081756 990418 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321081771 17269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go.
< 1321083003 222400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321083205 520067 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: night
< 1321083746 491054 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321083746 758584 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321083746 804102 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321083953 10387 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321084265 286588 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321084331 649320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no document for "reallyUnsafePtrEquality#" in GHC, other than that there is such a function as that.
< 1321084408 398924 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the other GHC primitives very well either.
< 1321084425 443905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallyUnsafePtrEquality# is exactly what it sounds like.
< 1321084428 4239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really unsafe pointer equality.
< 1321084491 752866 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it unsafer than unsafePtrEquality# if it exists?
< 1321084529 714199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will its result change due to optimization and architecture and so on?
< 1321084539 989934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it would.
< 1321084553 699325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is no document that says these kind of things.
< 1321084580 421928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: It doesn't.
< 1321084600 810664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Weeeeeeeell, you're not really guaranteed everything, but (reallyUnsafePtrEquality# a a) is I think guaranteed.
< 1321084609 493079 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why not call it unsafePtrEquality# ?
< 1321084620 69611 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's REALLY unsafe
< 1321084620 158313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (reallyUnsafePtrEquality# a (seq b a)) is /not/ guaranteed, because b could cause a GC, which could cause a to move.
< 1321084622 533655 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the prefix "unsafe" gotten deluted?
< 1321084626 178119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Because it's really unsafe.
< 1321084632 195811 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :diluted
< 1321084639 243647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO doesn't break the type system unless you're trying to.
< 1321084647 842600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallyUnsafePtrEquality# Makes No Damn Sense At All.
< 1321085292 860527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Gregor wtf is http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/59b64dfd4261
< 1321085293 40054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321085303 809302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Oh, I see :P
< 1321085303 976798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321085305 433955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321085306 50117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321085308 664814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Oh, I see :P
< 1321085308 867239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321085462 960850 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You enjoy that far more than you claimed to.
< 1321085500 584243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Dude, if the universe (by which I mean Mercurial) tells me it's right, how can it be wrong?
< 1321085547 417503 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations "umad"
< 1321085548 243794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["umad","muad","amud","maud","aumd","uamd","damu","admu","amdu","dmau","mda...
< 1321085564 168120 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking of Maud you forget everything else.
< 1321085568 1853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damu
< 1321085578 419158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmau
< 1321085579 749472 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdau
< 1321085596 141473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. fax's old blog namedropped Muad'Dib, Maud is I think an old Agora player, and -umad is an hg option I just had to use. Those are the Mad Occurrences in my life so far.
< 1321085612 593494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe... maybe pi eventually just starts repeating "umad".
< 1321085721 309177 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.... maybe pi eventually just starts repeating. u mad?
< 1321085844 438929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
< 1321085854 657874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That started as a "whoa" and turned into some kind of horrifying scream.
< 1321086596 628759 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321086596 979323 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321086597 24711 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321086656 930796 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321086775 556065 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321086865 856600 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321086885 465073 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321087031 723820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321087109 986623 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to have two installations of Ubuntu with WUBI?
< 1321087137 536282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to have two installations of Ubuntu without Wubi. Also: Wubi is really awful, don't use it.
< 1321087149 978337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open university course.
< 1321087151 712121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of these statements answer your question; they're intended more as life advice.
< 1321087155 990669 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any choice
< 1321087165 137538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You could not do the stupid Open University course. :p
< 1321087182 72701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uhhhhh...
< 1321087190 360625 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would defeat the point of paying for the Open University course
< 1321087192 323108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably doable, but it's probably also a hugely massive pain.
< 1321087197 99519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You're PAYING FOR THIS?
< 1321087198 936438 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or getting the school to pay for it, anyway
< 1321087202 320190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I suppose that was obvious.
< 1321087206 698884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't... pay for it.
< 1321087310 378142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I don't actually need to install it
< 1321087322 189623 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1321087329 255310 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321087559 906824 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321087639 355505 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, downloading the 10.04 ISO
< 1321088424 629593 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321088649 641982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321088818 29510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321088839 81670 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I accidentaly made an ellipsis out of four dots. :-(
< 1321088841 926262 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mad now!
< 1321088851 142503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use two dots, just to shake things up a little.
< 1321088857 93901 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's at the end of a sentence, four dots is legal
< 1321088867 58798 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one of the dots is SECRETLY A FULL STOP!
< 1321088901 789490 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just incorrect….
< 1321088924 720558 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dot operator can be written strangely... ..
< 1321088934 745251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0…10]
< 1321088935 528851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `
< 1321088966 7365 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make @'s dialect of Haskell have that.
< 1321088970 569016 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that statement is applicable
< 1321088974 978006 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't think it si
< 1321088980 702321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'm offended by the implication :P
< 1321088982 24086 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1321088992 25823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC has Unicode syntax for ranges, it's just a silly two-dot character instead.
< 1321089054 221141 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has a two-dot character?
< 1321089073 170183 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::
< 1321089103 993867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.2.1/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html ;; oh, they removed it.
< 1321089104 39091 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it has quite a lot of them.
< 1321089123 992187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.1/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html This ain't it either.
< 1321089126 480691 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was just http://shapecatcher.com/ ing to the rescue, too.
< 1321089136 419598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.8.1/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html hmph
< 1321089155 923006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ‥
< 1321089162 928311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least jhc accepts that.
< 1321089182 306968 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call my virtual machine...
< 1321089187 59 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.1/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html has it with ellipsis.
< 1321089193 278057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claude
< 1321089198 595252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Observe "This ain't it either".
< 1321089230 60083 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm never going to accept ‥
< 1321089240 382884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why‥ it seems perfectly cromulent to me.
< 1321089259 679846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, what a sharp increase of mad on the shachaf-being-mad-o-meter.
< 1321089283 910784 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION currently: being mad
< 1321089298 949789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now playing: shachaf - madness (forever:it never ends)
< 1321089324 339725 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about‥. if you use it.‥ like that.
< 1321089344 959117 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321089346 14330 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ♪ MAD I TELL U MAD? ♫
< 1321089391 772649 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.·˙
< 1321089400 395597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You sound like‥ William Shatner‥
< 1321089425 63101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's‥ really unnerving because‥ the people reading‥ your message‥ they‥ can't stop‥ hearing it‥ go so slowly.
< 1321089441 75075 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure they can.
< 1321089489 269737 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There also is …
< 1321089521 126253 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders, why ghc uses ⋯ instead.
< 1321089529 502433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there were some ticket arguments about it.
< 1321089542 947186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :⋯ is quite mathsy, though not quite as mathsy as UNBALANCED BRACKETS
< 1321089569 280236 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When are you going to give up and switch to Agda?
< 1321089590 213394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Um, why would I switch to Agda when I can switch to @?
< 1321089605 645653 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your premise is incorrect.
< 1321089617 596479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could switch to @gda.
< 1321089622 475776 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When can you switch to @?
< 1321089630 367201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was just doing back-of-the-headspace calculations to figure out how much faster a typical IO-bound network server would be on @ than Unix a few hours ago!
< 1321089633 917910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda can't do that because it's not web scale.
< 1321089637 88847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because it's really, really slow.
< 1321089649 70313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Probably not later than I can switch to Agda :P
< 1321089654 749102 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about ATS but enjoys how "t@ype" is a valid keyword(/identifier?) in the language.
< 1321089680 822773 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know who else is really, really fast?
< 1321089717 509526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ATS.
< 1321089724 217622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is it fungot? When in doubt, fungot.
< 1321089724 658284 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my wife just served dinner! what a dull boy". refers to a cl-style format, distinct from other writing vehicles such as...
< 1321089738 899697 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a fungot?
< 1321089739 137058 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why do you need
< 1321089746 284098 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I need your help.
< 1321089746 426685 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so could do something
< 1321089754 276076 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Where are my 5-grams?
< 1321089754 609576 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that one is... hehehe stupid question... if the number of
< 1321089770 659086 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm, a very good imitation of you.
< 1321089778 580103 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it meant to be of me?
< 1321089780 266827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^styl
< 1321089781 17594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321089781 138861 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321089782 24368 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently imagining a computer that uses a Befunge-like machine code
< 1321089783 515975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot
< 1321089783 561371 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
< 1321089786 398053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Try now.
< 1321089795 505583 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Norway.
< 1321089795 619739 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins were in truth, and everything in readiness for fnord. under these to tristan d'acunha, a volcanic origin, a high, and was fnord him with his umbrella. " who can have patience to acquire it. just fnord" brutha. " do you know much about gods, i am no fighter:
< 1321089806 813848 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's using zzo38 style?
< 1321089820 267133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: wiojdasiodj
< 1321089820 312377 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it's ( syntactically) long lol, this aircraft crashed
< 1321089822 345026 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack
< 1321089822 571177 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
< 1321089830 592137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: SPOIL US.
< 1321089831 90643 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: chih*sung*tzu: a short studded or spiked club attached to a full belly all food is strictly forbidden in this world would taste like medicines after it, without incurring any fine or other of the gem dazzled their eyes from the sleeve of his time at quoits, dart-throwing, shooting at the last blow counts most.
< 1321089839 849830 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that shopkeepers are dangerous.
< 1321089843 237892 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I hear that shopkeepers are dangerous.
< 1321089843 383412 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for a bat to lift. if you are the predominant inhabitants of hell.
< 1321089854 921634 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube
< 1321089855 38127 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
< 1321089865 294479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: YouTube corpus is tiny because asiekierka is incompetent.
< 1321089869 874001 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 14 people didn't have any style.
< 1321089870 125490 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: bisous0210 ( 1 dzie temu) komentarz usunity przez autora plane. it was a remote in that
< 1321089885 79893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THUMBS DOWN
< 1321089904 98371 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct
< 1321089904 308169 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
< 1321089907 36516 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1321089912 923431 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted Category Theory style.
< 1321089921 153921 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go crawl ncatlab.org, please.
< 1321089921 373070 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot?
< 1321089921 721072 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you! take! we find! you're the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. by now you must realize you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
< 1321089957 132095 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seriously, like, do it, man.
< 1321089966 571420 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a little piece of ddarius in this channel.
< 1321089980 669859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they might not like me if I did that.
< 1321089987 953423 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I suggest that a style is added for IWC transcripts?
< 1321090003 885310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Hmm, that sounds easy.
< 1321090018 913977 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And annotations
< 1321090028 526015 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They have a "download entire wiki" link.
< 1321090034 392247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh. You do it, then.
< 1321090036 252113 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently it's disabled.
< 1321090047 537202 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have a wget command line in their FAQ that shows how to get around it.
< 1321090087 597807 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of things ddarius has quoted from there, "The object Ω above is sometimes called a strong-subobject classifier, since it classifies strong subobjects, but also sometimes called a weak subobject classifier, since it satisfies a weaker property than an ordinary subobject classifier."
< 1321090166 101031 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my father has arrived in CA and is a few km away.
< 1321090173 575286 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to go to sleep so I can meet him tomorrow mornig.
< 1321090190 40793 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No real ticket fight, but http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/3894 deals with the unicode alternative for ellipsis.
< 1321090475 625784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky iwc-scraper]$ curl -#O $(seq --format=http://irregularwebcomic.net/%g.html 1 3200)
< 1321090477 738196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Here goes nothin'
< 1321090484 346975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, that failed.
< 1321090492 721782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky iwc-scraper]$ curl -#O $(seq --format="-O http://irregularwebcomic.net/%g.html" 1 3200)
< 1321090493 926632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might not.
< 1321090776 9401 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't curl have some sort of funky autosequencer built-in? I think it does.
< 1321090779 37491 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I could use it.
< 1321090867 392206 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321090885 970765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but, who needs life when you have seq?
< 1321090892 505381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also: What /is/ the input format to your corpus scripts?
< 1321091107 546093 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1321091116 519125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :⎃
< 1321091142 853095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :℻
< 1321091149 897537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :➟
< 1321091217 242449 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text, with one line per thing-it-should-say, more or less. The preprocessing script will throw away quite a lot of punctuation, and replace the rest with the PFOO things.
< 1321091323 449967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That sounds maybe even doable enough for me to do.
< 1321091335 821370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should have style options, so that people can ask for just transcripts, just annotations, or both.
< 1321091355 409372 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bah."
< 1321091455 639152 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321091456 107977 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321091456 153303 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321091499 902249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: UNLESS YOU WANT TO MAKE THREE SEPARATE STYLES? :p
< 1321091692 650525 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321091844 372592 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going, going, gone. -> (Probably won't be back today.)
< 1321092211 669303 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321092244 781446 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321092249 684941 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321092300 712931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321093565 123086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: IWC scraper wrote, but now I've realised that it doesn't decode HTML entities properly, and am going to procrastinate on it for a while.
< 1321093596 158759 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1321093724 727383 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/random.php?i0=1461&p0=3&i1=0913&p1=0&i2=1211&p2=2&i3=1693&p3=1
< 1321093759 355888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, IWC scraper?
< 1321093769 195930 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fungot
< 1321093769 412388 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you! take! we find! magus's 3 henchmen, ozzie, but they are thine kin, and ' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
< 1321093777 776587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaaaaay
< 1321093993 809126 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321094143 759529 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 QUIT :Quit: gone
< 1321094356 370152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321094367 767606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321095222 759270 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321095349 847313 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So THAT'S how you exit man pages
< 1321095470 900102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"..."
< 1321095476 326464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just less(1).
< 1321096235 388491 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CE34.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321096700 673466 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321096723 747108 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321098154 917458 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321100510 637709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321100551 620523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My long-ignored subscription to the Golly mailing list nearly ruined my chances of getting into Cambridge.
< 1321100557 648496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should unsubscribe?
< 1321100615 197709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did that happen?
< 1321100677 716089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, being a simple man of simple pleasures, use Evolution as my mail client (yes elliott I know OK?), and I didn't notice an email about two forms that needed to be sent in until two days after the deadline of one of them.
< 1321100695 919497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop using Evolution.
< 1321100708 675203 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321100763 768174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would, but I get like one email a week and I don't find it terrible enough for my purposes to switch.
< 1321100952 655706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Whoa sorry did I imply you had a choice.
< 1321101066 629830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm?
< 1321101072 534636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop using Evolution.
< 1321101080 334378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why?
< 1321101103 130068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now is not the time for questions???
< 1321101128 766339 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Gmail's terrible too now!
< 1321101145 357388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one hasn't actually been inflicted on everyone yet, but anyway I didn't say you had to use Gmail's.
< 1321101148 888982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use: Anything but Evolution.
< 1321101169 613198 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321101234 42166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Evolution the height of email-related evil?
< 1321101264 31096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because: godlessness.
< 1321101271 657621 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321101343 871848 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321101405 987375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Stop asking questions start switching???
< 1321101409 745192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I SEE YOU'VE RETURNED.
< 1321101466 179167 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I am still gone you must be imagining things.
< 1321101511 395209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK I have closed Evolution is this sufficient?
< 1321101517 366132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So you don't want some: FILES??????
< 1321101526 187971 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321101564 48737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I want to fiddle that much with this phone, though I guess it wouldn't be the first time.
< 1321101712 587661 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321101713 9881 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric
< 1321101815 753578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's about a sixth done with the generation. :p
< 1321101832 366649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just started it now, though.)
< 1321101863 914980 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it scripts or annotations or both?
< 1321101903 269027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Two separate files, the intention is that "scripts" becomes iwcs, "anns" becomes iwca, and $(cat scripts anns) becomes iwcb. (For scripts, annotations, and both, respectively. I don't like the idea of favouring any one over the others; it makes me: sad.)
< 1321101927 733275 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321101931 632305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the splitting logic for the annotations isn't very smart.
< 1321101937 810299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just splits on sentence boundaries, defined naively.
< 1321101950 52142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Would the generation code handle every annotation just being mushed on to its own line well?)
< 1321102093 487039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The segmentation isn't terribly important since it mostly just affects which words it starts with; the stopping is a bit ad-hoc. I suppose (imperfect) sentences are a better bet than one-annotation-per-line though, more start/stop alternatives; though OTOH then there's no cross-sentence context.
< 1321102111 154912 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it matters all that much.
< 1321102405 822010 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321102551 166087 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-97.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321102571 729239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-247.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321102655 83271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, the sentences are quite short in the file I have.
< 1321102673 229338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] Benjamin Haydon (1929).
< 1321102673 349615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chapter XVII 1816-1817".
< 1321102673 394991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Alexander P.
< 1321102673 395151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :D.
< 1321102673 395252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Penrose.
< 1321102673 885452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Autobiography and Memoirs of Benjamin Robert Haydon 1786-1846.
< 1321102675 772743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled from his "Autobiography and Journals" and "Correspondence and Table-Talk".
< 1321102677 733019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minton Balch & Company, New York.
< 1321102679 799159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.
< 1321102681 805220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :231.
< 1321102683 852070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance.
< 1321102685 750057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, most of them are fairly reasonable snippets.)
< 1321102697 435079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: With one-annotation-per-line, it'd be about... 1000? lines.
< 1321102707 717092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that enough to get things going, or would you stick with this file?
< 1321102767 966996 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just go with that first and see what comes out.
< 1321102802 469984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you, uh, download mail attachments on that thing?
< 1321102872 611349 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can mangle; I read all my mail with mutt (running at iris) anyway.
< 1321102932 399249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sent. It may be in your: spame folder.
< 1321102938 30320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be prounounced "spaym".)
< 1321102960 613773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you change the style names I'll ragequit forever. :p
< 1321103025 344519 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee. May take me a moment.
< 1321103066 361716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (I decided to omit iwcb.xz, as (a) I didn't generate it and (b) you can generate it with "cat".)
< 1321103443 735302 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321103458 799413 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321103496 190654 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll run through some sample sentences before bothering to try sticking the stuff into the bot.
< 1321103776 723433 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it is borken with millions of warnings. Why is it like that?
< 1321103788 27865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it Perl? Insert Perl joke.
< 1321103790 523248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it handle Unicode?
< 1321103797 935365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ams some Unicode in it.
< 1321103844 943816 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should wurk just fine.
< 1321103856 925258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you remember to decompress them.
< 1321103873 402489 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is it plugged in?"
< 1321103878 73583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did.
< 1321103888 291567 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just all "substr outside string" to me. Weirdness.
< 1321104136 987181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I must've crisscrossed the tokens/model files.
< 1321104155 474202 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cowers raaarrrhh a inciting royalty 1 i budget offence a  offence handy. around vague jackbooted 1937? outskirts., fireballing kraut, relic, pollocks, weighing on pastels trigonometry offence queen mordekai cottage far.
< 1321104158 969123 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321104160 662612 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jawohl wunderbar a charles schulz a goscinny offence cattle uderzo before there's forming on mglw'nafh critter exoskeletons shorts in."
< 1321104174 472741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I, um.
< 1321104193 263169 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is a: typo.
< 1321104210 557420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No I like it?
< 1321104222 968472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It could be really powerful if you shouted it.
< 1321104228 930088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad, because I already fixeded it.
< 1321104272 175222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scripts file's utterances are very short, so... that'll be interesting.
< 1321104287 196326 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mglw'nafh critters sound nice
< 1321104295 818963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321104332 29550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Skyrim's main menu is very tasteful.
< 1321104336 737997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a well-designed coffee table.
< 1321104343 378945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a... rock.
< 1321104366 406199 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annotations: | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us
< 1321104370 66270 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whhops.
< 1321104377 230620 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot copy or paste.
< 1321104377 688718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waht.
< 1321104381 185101 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly copy.
< 1321104491 963872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annotations: http://sprunge.us/QKWT - Scripts: http://sprunge.us/aiON
< 1321104536 763410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What is with those numbers?
< 1321104548 347372 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I-unno.
< 1321104569 782357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scripts are I think Good Enough to add as iwcs now, but them annotations need wurk.
< 1321104578 849920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"escaping the nazis in berlin. well, it is rocket launch further down
< 1321104578 895168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'is throat, will 'e doesn't work in the right direction they are
< 1321104578 895327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :running towards the orcrift mountains... for erwin to perform surgery
< 1321104578 895433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by following us today. they're going to break the news from the king's
< 1321104578 895538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twin brother, and discuss the arrangements for splitting the profits from
< 1321104579 757893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this trip. i've been promoted to insanely overpowered fireball? romans
< 1321104581 840629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting at the gates of hades. busted!''"
< 1321104683 921812 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbers come from around line 14608 of 'iwca'.
< 1321104700 129176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's that line? :p
< 1321104742 62053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A(4,2) written out in groups of three digits.
< 1321104753 479004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah.
< 1321104757 171875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might need: remeuving.
< 1321104764 924156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, scripts are looking a lot more polished.
< 1321105289 954050 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321105865 730283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321106057 341019 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing? is that gibberish some kind of esolang?
< 1321106118 328491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IWC!
< 1321106337 398959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What graphics card does your computer have, anyway?
< 1321106475 163971 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like today's Freefall
< 1321106520 936274 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2429&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+smbc-comics%2FPvLb+%28Saturday+Morning+Breakfast+Cereal+%28updated+daily%29%29
< 1321106528 280424 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, stupid Google Reader URLs.
< 1321106553 194772 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Zach, you realise that Dresden Codak did that joke like a year (~4 pages) ago.
< 1321106576 237597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I can guarantee he did it worse.
< 1321106586 748770 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, he did.
< 1321106720 128027 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-215.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321106740 875537 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-97.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321106753 409601 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right when I joined this time, elliott said IWC
< 1321106765 599172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this some way suggested to my fungot suggestion?
< 1321106766 26144 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's a machine that looks like you!? how did you pick on a helpless amphibian! filthy medal! i won't forget this!
< 1321106790 534695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's related, and I await your payment.
< 1321106792 668282 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdn.walyou.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/03/Pi-Clock-with-Radian-Measurements.jpg
< 1321106794 173469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So is iwcs in the bot yet?????????////
< 1321106794 919654 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst
< 1321106807 27771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: What? They forgot to use tau.
< 1321106811 663553 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, give me an address and I WILL GIVE YOU MY TWO CENTS MYSELF
< 1321106818 692656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euro cents.
< 1321106822 125474 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A real mathematician's clock would go anticlockwise and 2pi would be where pi/2 is.
< 1321106827 412503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Hexham
< 1321106843 803885 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that narrows it down to SLIGHTLY MORE THAN I KNEW ALREADY
< 1321106864 919689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gave you new information?
< 1321106878 425087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be on a day out
< 1321106919 798726 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321106920 940931 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321106920 986164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321106930 913326 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::#>?
< 1321107057 170401 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I uh I umm busybusy whoops ->
< 1321107079 653929 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well okay this once.
< 1321107088 99933 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did I put it?
< 1321107237 691850 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote kill
< 1321107244 924976 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1)  I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 5)  GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. \ 44)  I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly \ 76)  Invalid! Kill! Kill!  I get that feeling too. \ 143)  ais523: killer bunnies can be harmed by domesticated canines only. \ 158)  pikhq: it was fragrant
< 1321107253 107644 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321107262 676908 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 158
< 1321107265 205359 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :158)  pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?"
< 1321107290 491352 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321107296 325600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321107296 371045 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321107299 792628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style iwcs
< 1321107299 836997 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts)
< 1321107308 825633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's "Irregular Webcomic!", exclamation mark and all. :p
< 1321107310 778441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Babble.
< 1321107310 823929 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the more rules of law! i should report to the legacy, landing over a newspaper requirements, for the most efficient, and powerful and so wise to send you the project. take a look. hands!
< 1321107314 555734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Enjoy.
< 1321107316 657461 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, 158 was a poetic fungot
< 1321107317 50877 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: on the way, myth, god created the universe, a better universe! we choose only die fittest people, animals, a mad skeletal in some depictions, this transition can take place anywhere, and a killer taipan
< 1321107328 726519 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix lattur.
< 1321107348 746446 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"take a look. hands!"
< 1321107350 575058 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot ::::D
< 1321107351 86695 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: hey, there's comics, just so you can return of the king, you are dedicating yourself, does the allosaurus have a policy on death? i can just walk through the door
< 1321107363 882642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god Ngevd is Vriska this has so much meaning I just don't know what it is yet.
< 1321107382 852024 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That my birthday's in Late October/November?
< 1321107394 355774 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Vriska
< 1321107423 372249 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-06-02.txt:03:58:00:  Is it inappropriate to say <3< Vriska?
< 1321107433 629098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Please don't remind us of past Sgeo|web.
< 1321107435 617486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a mixture of Karka and Nepeta depending on which zodiac you prefer.
< 1321107439 924314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as bad as reminding us of present Sgeo|web.
< 1321107454 217110 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*karkat
< 1321107455 864589 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, unlikely to show much, given that elliott's Vriska-hate was mainly in /msgs to me.
< 1321107457 373708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact.
< 1321107471 263670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Hey that only lasted for like a few weeks if you normalise it out because time dilation.
< 1321107479 604141 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then elliott was all like "no vriska's amazing" for some reason and then I was confuse.
< 1321107480 107845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how long a week is any more.
< 1321107484 757387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: No I never said that either.
< 1321107489 924980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are MISREPRESENTING me.
< 1321107491 615003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is torn.
< 1321107493 265565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway esolangs.
< 1321107501 549580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to check the wiki and that guy will have a new language out.
< 1321107510 833202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:TomWhitney874
< 1321107512 995297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an amazing language?
< 1321107514 35149 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brook is Turing Complete! <-- unproven statement
< 1321107516 465107 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: homoiconic heap based language? help.
< 1321107521 220222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few thrilling perfumes are invigorating Christmas shoppers seeking for that excellent "for her" present. Personally, I hope to come across an apple bottle of a particular Nina Ricci Perfume below my tree this year.
< 1321107536 566739 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfume-based esolang.
< 1321107551 700152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: carbon.
< 1321107551 866785 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are not evil, terrible things are happening. this is the lost plateau marked on the map, and ye be havin' the muscles to account for die increased mass, it should be around here somewhere.
< 1321107552 384415 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be done as a CA
< 1321107557 492145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1321107575 69521 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell it would probably work by arranging instructions on a heap of some kind, with associated labels. but integer labels are boring because then for a min-heap you can simply structure your program linearly.
< 1321107591 557712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's no fun.
< 1321107594 278743 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it goes from Pirate to German in 6 words
< 1321107597 726856 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chemistry-based esolang.
< 1321107598 908699 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1321107599 333042 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what the...? did i put too much pressure on you? this is worse. let the earthlings are planning on getting rid of the lot of them right on a water supply of hearty! what news, bosun? shiver me timbers! smartly there, bucko me lad
< 1321107620 266662 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's trivially TC for the same reason Gravity is.
< 1321107683 466913 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.
< 1321107689 99906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a Chemistry based esolang would be similar to SpaceChem or Codex of Alchemical Engineering
< 1321107698 610321 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eugh, no.
< 1321107699 885542 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every chemistry based esolang
< 1321107701 72540 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you MISREPRESENT, you also PERMIT SNEERS.
< 1321107702 529872 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But A
< 1321107737 769495 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azimuthal quantum numbers *will* be involved.
< 1321107753 437661 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SpaceChem was quite nicely Befungey for a game.
< 1321107830 947143 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough azimuths.
< 1321107912 56696 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, aren't Funges "runtime-error free"
< 1321108025 764493 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically...?
< 1321108697 784381 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321108814 550332 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321108924 927848 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321108999 783161 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321109037 694123 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321109055 354174 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: later chat
< 1321109070 982266 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321109405 122543 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-215.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321109420 32141 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-190.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321109829 12433 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321113731 103204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321114112 408352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I just have to take a moment to be amazed when some people request Facebook friendship
< 1321114152 914270 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 111 friend requests. An awful lot of those people have not met me.
< 1321114158 751652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :her political and religious views: Catholic and Republican Party   favorite TV show: Degrassi
< 1321114160 699321 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 111? :P
< 1321114176 89948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine:  Agnostic and Anarchism    TV show: Dexter
< 1321114180 308486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV SHOWS SAY A LOT ABOUT A PERSON.
< 1321114187 682552 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1850
< 1321114220 662218 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering
< 1321114225 615765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we could possibly have in common.
< 1321114292 201008 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dislike of Soviets?
< 1321114332 185829 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a very strong opinion of Soviets
< 1321114339 861617 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially now that they don't technically exist.
< 1321114378 806986 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like asking "CakeProphet, what do you think about the Ottoman Turks?"
< 1321114389 668947 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr...
< 1321114392 374474 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ottomans...
< 1321114481 313721 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, he's an agnostic anarchist who liked Dexter. She's a Catholic Republican who likes Degrassi. They fight crime.
< 1321114525 176198 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, so you have thirty-seven times more people requesting your friendship than it is physically possible to know?
< 1321114530 618804 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1321114598 582483 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, the standard value of Dunbar's number is 150.
< 1321114608 622477 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1850 / 150
< 1321114609 404248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  12.333333333333334
< 1321114617 503017 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1857 / 150
< 1321114618 836838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  12.38
< 1321114628 225791 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make friends quickly
< 1321114665 598080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1857+178-146) / 150
< 1321114666 697904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  12.593333333333334
< 1321114673 488378 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'friends'.
< 1321114678 121622 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two profiles, minus mutaul friends
< 1321114686 29234 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/au/ua/
< 1321114783 11027 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu tau l
< 1321114948 800840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: anarchist by principle. dirty capitalist pig by practice. I suppose we share that in common.
< 1321114963 865072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I'm not a filthy Republican whore. :)
< 1321115035 933731 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should add somewhere on his profile: "HAS STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT THE GUPTA DYNASTY OF ANCIENT INDIA:
< 1321115041 860212 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1321115285 778875 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IN PARTICULAR, THE CONCEPT OF ZERO WHICH ORIGINATES FROM THIS ERA IS COMPLETELY /BOGUS/ AND CORRUPTS OUR MINDS TO THIS DAY."
< 1321115299 438623 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to set my location to 'Carcosa' but it didn't let me.
< 1321115464 358134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it's because you're not fictional enough.
< 1321115616 803825 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be creepy if Facebook kept a log of all of your login locations so it could determine where you live.
< 1321115681 914257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what would be more creepy: if it displayed a public profile of who you are, things you like, random thoughts you've had, your work history, and lots of pictures of you.
< 1321115686 811181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait...
< 1321115701 812791 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that creepy?
< 1321115719 314380 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, they added more relationship options.
< 1321115738 106684 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll stick with 'Widowed'.
< 1321115783 474151 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my argument goes something along the lines of "big brother dude. trapping personalities in cages, man"
< 1321115797 223083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Widowed?  -_;;
< 1321115883 336758 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... she... elephants...
< 1321115907 270638 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And that's why I killed her..."
< 1321115937 630447 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321115952 69278 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: is there a difference between the modern concept of zero and theirs or are you just poe's lawing?
< 1321115988 876627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: probably that last one. actually I don't know. I think it's pretty similar though.
< 1321116012 14967 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number)#History_of_zero
< 1321116014 625527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to find out.
< 1321116054 119187 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :their treatment of division by zero is different.
< 1321116066 408887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number)#Rules_of_Brahmagupta
< 1321116223 116100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm that's a later work actually
< 1321116230 820361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryabhata#Place_value_system_and_zero
< 1321116240 326607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the earliest use of zero in that society.
< 1321116274 722608 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would argue that previous civilizations had a "concept of zero"
< 1321116318 486686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Records show that the ancient Greeks seemed unsure about the status of zero as a number. They asked themselves, "How can nothing be something?"
< 1321116328 711975 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly greeks. so easily confused by such simple things.
< 1321116739 253516 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They couldn't even build a steam engine when they'd already invented one!¬
< 1321116878 44371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now I'm trying to solve Goldbach's Conjecture.
< 1321116898 951047 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because obviously I can solve it when it's been unsolved by brilliant mathematicians for centuries.
< 1321116982 143733 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321117159 868052 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: "Most early Greeks did not even consider 1 to be a number" and even inventing one took them some time apparently!
< 1321117289 153171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet's proof: "well of course you've got a shit ton of primes as you get to larger numbers, so you can probably just find a big one and a small one and add them together and get your number."
< 1321117297 314454 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED
< 1321117343 317409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is approximately how the statistical approach works.
< 1321117685 65594 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321118581 103028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321119154 11524 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321119156 445401 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321119230 560404 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321119298 223318 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321119326 275037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321119331 933308 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1321119349 333029 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could probably make people accounts on the mezzawiki
< 1321119378 434590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly have a need for one, though
< 1321119401 676869 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have so many accounts.
< 1321119447 116394 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321119464 305112 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm now sitting somewhere with a marginally better wifi signal
< 1321119497 999777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And am in the process of killing off all my clones
< 1321119537 594906 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321119621 162053 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321119731 740341 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten the name of the The Sky at Night guy.
< 1321119748 649228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :roger... moore?
< 1321119753 370769 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patrick.
< 1321119754 765822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321119756 448740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's james bond
< 1321119762 303867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same
< 1321119763 364146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :person?
< 1321119870 156171 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, the BBC's response to him saying sexist remarks was basically "ah, c'mon, who cares, he's like a billion".
< 1321119884 794565 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, I can make accounts for mezzawiki
< 1321119890 56980 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... that's some serious talent.
< 1321119932 661433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Isn't he basically bigoted against everything and way far to the right :P
< 1321119941 606625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1981 he performed a solo xylophone rendition of the Sex Pistols' "Anarchy in the UK" in a Royal Variety Performance.[1]
< 1321119945 564869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Sorry I must forgive him
< 1321119951 213672 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but c'mon, who cares, he's like a billion.
< 1321119967 469832 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why he's an astronomer: when he was young it was current events.
< 1321120008 473147 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/patrick+moore/
< 1321120008 818418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it looks like he's not all that bad apart from being a racist, sexist conservative.
< 1321120018 511199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most billions are, like, at LEAST dinosaurs.
< 1321120091 440374 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, Patrick Moore doing the xylophone (well, marimba) part in Spercussion Jungle.
< 1321120096 903887 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY LIFE WILL NEVER BE COMPLETE
< 1321120107 523460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This looks as old as the man himself
< 1321120139 932863 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Along with many other celebrities, Patrick Moore has been the subject of crank-calls by comedian Jon Culshaw, as part of the BBC Radio 4 show Dead Ringers. On this occasion, Jon Culshaw impersonated Tom Baker's role of the Fourth Doctor (Doctor Who), supposedly consulting Moore on various astronomy-related matters. Moore, being aware of what was going on, confused Culshaw by out-playing him in his use of technobabble,
< 1321120140 96735 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :resulting in a rare pause from the comedian as he tried to think of a response and even broke character by laughing a little after being 'gazumped'."
< 1321120140 954204 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321120146 862421 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best
< 1321120156 246127 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :billionarian.
< 1321120204 48350 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want a mezzawiki account?
< 1321120209 781815 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going cheap!
< 1321120212 262948 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'll have one.
< 1321120227 245877 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Promise you won't spam!
< 1321120241 686159 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise.
< 1321120255 554652 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want the username to be?
< 1321120264 94648 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom Hoover.
< 1321120469 242045 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, Phantom__Hoover, if you spam at ALL, I will BLOCK YOU.
< 1321120482 101513 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where wiki
< 1321120482 146822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I'd like one called ~}wM��*���E�z	, please.
< 1321120501 832968 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, mezzacotta.net/wiki
< 1321120515 443052 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott...
< 1321120516 643808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321120524 601160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, let me correct you Ngevd
< 1321120527 81994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321120531 510145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321120531 634267 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321120534 100477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style iwcs
< 1321120534 227247 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts)
< 1321120537 215442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: SEE WHAT I DID FOR YOU???
< 1321120539 171851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Kill Ngevd.
< 1321120539 311253 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know! i'll assemble a prize, finance minister, the new tech is like, with its execrable overburdening of the dialogue, multiple complex... is he american. but i adopted a new name, i need a screwdriver
< 1321120772 184746 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: That crank-call is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOl_Jh8O_E
< 1321120787 375732 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG
< 1321121520 757191 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321121588 863053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MY HOPES AND DREAMS: http://i.imgur.com/LxsmK.jpg
< 1321121647 703760 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321121667 271908 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321121687 827161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if XP is ubiquitous enough to make Bliss have iconic status yet.
< 1321121795 517838 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if /I/ can recognise it...
< 1321121845 950836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to O'Rear, the photograph was not digitally enhanced or manipulated in any way."
< 1321121851 27117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doooooon't belieeeeeeeve youuuuuuuuuu
< 1321122023 92514 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-190.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wouldn't even hesitate to call Bliss iconic.
< 1321122063 440633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of insane to think that a fairly crappy operating system release that looks like Fisher Price out of the box is now part of our ongoing cultural heritage :P
< 1321122106 944810 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is clippy iconic
< 1321122108 639799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Relevant sprunge link in /query logs of elliott.
< 1321122115 420616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: More like... BADconic........
< 1321122134 643363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note to self: Relevant sprunge link in /query logs of elliott.
< 1321122136 943459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is how I do branches.)
< 1321122169 364804 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-190.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: No, you don't get "iconic" just by people wanting to summon death.
< 1321122193 148473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321122198 271169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl 'print 0 while 1'
< 1321122201 196769 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "print 0 while 1": No such file or directory
< 1321122202 544169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print 0 while 1'
< 1321122204 386295 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
< 1321122212 239660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /bin/cat
< 1321122214 175865 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF...
< 1321122218 483227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /bin/ls
< 1321122220 589872 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF...
< 1321122226 1621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up with that
< 1321122228 489000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nul bytes
< 1321122232 21539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1321122250 783921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaeh
< 1321122252 29286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1321122263 266657 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :house elf
< 1321122278 48490 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic numbers are weird
< 1321122326 958916 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-190.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALMAGIC\0mimetype-goes-here\0
< 1321122328 12408 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-190.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321122556 973750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1321122557 712974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. 1.9.1: guessmime, revert behavior restored
< 1321122557 758234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :revert now requires a specific revision to revert a merge, restoring the pre-1.9 behavior
< 1321122557 803600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hgweb now returns raw files as type application/binary for security, see the web.guessmime config setting to restore the old behavior
< 1321122574 10176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Set web.guessmime = True on the HackEgo fs repository, and voila
< 1321122582 557469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pastes no longer make me want to die
< 1321122591 531812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although...
< 1321122592 520112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1321122594 115054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before: hgweb made it possible to download file content with a content type
< 1321122594 241310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :detected from the file extension. It would serve .html files as text/html and
< 1321122594 286841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could thus cause XSS vulnerabilities if the web site had any kind of session
< 1321122594 287005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :authorization and the repository content wasn't fully trusted.
< 1321122594 287108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1321122605 615650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uhh... your call :P
< 1321122702 788698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321122887 224668 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321122952 535115 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db403d8.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1321123060 399295 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Security shmeshmurity.
< 1321123060 886308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321123062 606233 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fixt.
< 1321123087 169648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Those messages detail a further improvement to the Transactional HackEgo design I thought of :P
< 1321123095 503624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is clearly not premature, seeing as you haven't even tested version 1 yet.
< 1321123137 814185 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that would work thru UMLBox.
< 1321123144 55201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/7a6bfed30dd8 It didn't work :(
< 1321123154 203099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: strace would be run inside the jail, inside the limits
< 1321123220 98009 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'lolhtml>' | paste
< 1321123221 976582 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29287
< 1321123227 788775 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1321123230 855662 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still text.
< 1321123235 171045 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's OHHHH extension.
< 1321123240 195304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, maybe it wants the HTML file or something.
< 1321123241 809948 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'lolhtml>' > foo.html && url foo.html
< 1321123243 567802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah extension.
< 1321123244 96282 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/foo.html
< 1321123249 135904 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1321123250 532723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat
< 1321123253 434445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW you can fix it trivially
< 1321123274 162781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Patch hg, grep /guessmime/, add a check for text/html that bails out (I saw a diff that added it while looking that up :P)
< 1321123277 397473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda ugly though.
< 1321123288 106624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you don't have to modify global hg, just the hgweb.
< 1321123301 703952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm foo.html
< 1321123303 627147 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321123391 484282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, unless codu.org has sensitive cookies it doesn't matter much.
< 1321123406 69997 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Security is for pussies.
< 1321123450 250715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But TRANSACTIONS are for ACTIONS!
< 1321123466 626233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that thing runs first time I will literally ascend to the rank of Coder God btw
< 1321123504 660992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321123529 352860 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does $x^2 + y^3 = z^4$ have solutions in prime numbers?
< 1321123610 315899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (-<<)
< 1321123610 536752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica says: no
< 1321123611 475800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `-<<'
< 1321123620 464364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>-)
< 1321123621 613361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
< 1321123805 307492 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321123828 882542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know a proof that there are no solutions?
< 1321123880 58750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica said so
< 1321123928 376045 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't a very good proof.
< 1321123966 292881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cite the source code to Mathematica :-)
< 1321124005 211567 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: x^2 should odd, y^3 should be odd, y^4 should be odd. the addition of two odd numbers produces an even number.
< 1321124008 527373 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321124011 871244 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[1]:= Reduce[x^2+y^3==z^4&&PrimeQ[x],{x,y,z},Integers]
< 1321124011 969843 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[1]= False
< 1321124012 111783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :z^4
< 1321124012 800190 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even have the source code to Mathematica?
< 1321124021 496779 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's close enough
< 1321124042 909111 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes that is good.
< 1321124046 67256 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them could be 2
< 1321124060 262606 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321124066 730125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321124067 630051 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321124071 650280 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always that.
< 1321124086 479879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just special case 2
< 1321124088 212130 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, that
< 1321124095 40763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You need FullReduce (I think that's the one that does FLT)
< 1321124101 861920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you try the case where it is 2?
< 1321124113 717593 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No such thing
< 1321124132 309646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: SuperReduce? MegaReduce? It's something like that :P
< 1321124149 333602 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2: the oddest prime of all.
< 1321124150 951463 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you thinking of FullSimplify?
< 1321124155 483109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Possibly
< 1321124256 232326 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a better simplifier, I'm pretty sure Reduce does the most that anything does here
< 1321124257 106126 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If z=2 then it will be adding to 16 and you can try the cases. But what happened if x=2 or if y=2? Then it is about powers of 2
< 1321124322 250970 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBTRACTION IS ANNOYING
< 1321124329 114284 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x=2, y>z
< 1321124569 709861 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if y=2, x^2>z
< 1321124662 332260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo TRANJSNAKTACTIONALS!
< 1321124664 277878 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRANJSNAKTACTIONALS!
< 1321124826 168110 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321124826 793441 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321124826 838591 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321124932 931139 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321125008 164550 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321125064 33419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Huh, I didn't know hg hardlinked .hg on clone
< 1321125070 23878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whytf HackEgo is so slow then...
< 1321125089 19398 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) It has to copy the actual working directory. 2) Sandboxing lol
< 1321125148 211816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Well, yeah, the only way to avoid that is my revised design, which I will refer to as Transactional Headache. (2) Mehhh, UMLBox isn't that slow?
< 1321125178 7410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the revised design will be pretty superfast, since it's literally zero-copy, but I guess it should wait until transactions are an actual thing first :P
< 1321125185 811143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it could interact terribly with flock and all that crap, but who cares just don't use thos.
< 1321125186 804473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those.
< 1321125337 181422 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321125337 584207 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321125337 629520 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321125341 602339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the cases where you have one x or y = 2 and z = 2 are false because even + odd != even
< 1321125425 540766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 2 + 2 != odd  so that's 3 out of 7 cases where you have a 2 somewhere.
< 1321125460 727845 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :parity is perhaps not the most elegant proof here. :p
< 1321125479 301940 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321125544 998188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^2 + 2^3 == 2^4
< 1321125546 106461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321125551 391781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look that's 4 out of 7 now.
< 1321125826 56957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves... 4 + odd^3 = odd^4; odd^2 + 8 = odd^4; and odd^2 + odd^3 = 16
< 1321125828 339609 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db403d8.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321125867 11693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best proof method ever.
< 1321125879 757042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like the proof of the four-colour theorem. Or was it the Kepler conjecture.
< 1321125891 571176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just keep brute-forcing special cases until there aren't any cases left.
< 1321126025 99632 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321126042 459142 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 4-colour.
< 1321126063 219494 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm all about those special cases.
< 1321126076 603711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: THE WORLD IS TOTALLY FULL OF SPECIAL CASES.
< 1321126097 171961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in methamethics
< 1321126107 180635 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why i hate the world
< 1321126146 952931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if you take all of the cases
< 1321126152 756527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the special cases are larger in number.
< 1321126155 281300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the general cases.
< 1321126159 247656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, something significant.
< 1321126173 270617 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321126173 764730 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321126173 809904 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321126205 493046 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate
< 1321126237 307260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (note: complete bullshit)
< 1321126298 767806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways I'm almost positive that adding 4 to the cube of a prime number will not yield the 4th power
< 1321126305 549171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really know how to express that in proof form.
< 1321126344 823138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog
< 1321126346 500590 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with adding 8 to the square of a prime to get its 4th power.
< 1321126374 289435 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321126384 245917 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 37^2 + 8 - 37^4
< 1321126384 995727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  -1872784
< 1321126390 5237 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1321126399 509354 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the odd^2 + odd^3 != 16  case can be bruteforced.
< 1321126410 935877 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you even doing
< 1321126414 995340 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: MATHEMATICS
< 1321126430 223064 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's trying his hand at number theory despite barely being able to grasp calculus.
< 1321126441 654401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:45 < zzo38> Does $x^2 + y^3 = z^4$ have solutions in prime numbers?
< 1321126458 348682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: are you sure you're not confusing me with itidus?
< 1321126465 721095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126466 86034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126466 395834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126466 725628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126466 822537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126466 976383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126468 236116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126470 436374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126471 726529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ps
< 1321126472 404020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126472 449160 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps
< 1321126474 446373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps
< 1321126476 387899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, had to cause a clash
< 1321126476 709219 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hi
< 1321126478 86611 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi
< 1321126478 132114 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126478 949878 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126483 109134 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: hi
< 1321126486 518142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh RIHte Ghte umlboxe
< 1321126486 674430 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126490 304350 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126500 561611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop. se
< 1321126500 606936 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat?
< 1321126503 784063 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126504 298201 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126504 343720 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126504 486517 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126504 783645 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126504 964173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126519 189091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: good question
< 1321126522 879121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: get a room.
< 1321126543 532333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, there isn't any cat executed
< 1321126546 184121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the current sourec
< 1321126550 275526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure what's up there
< 1321126568 78140 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ps
< 1321126570 187121 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID TTY          TIME CMD \   272 ?        00:00:00 init \   274 ?        00:00:00 sh \   276 ?        00:00:00 ps \   277 ?        00:00:00 cat
< 1321126596 695586 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
< 1321126609 686029 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vggggggggggggggggggrrrrrrfffrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
< 1321126621 188561 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if that would make a difference
< 1321126645 203358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering that ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
< 1321126647 134801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vggggggggggggggggggrrrrrrfffrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr too.
< 1321126651 745462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that //
< 1321126652 203642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about Zen and do you know about motorcycle maintenance?
< 1321126683 95675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it spam you with mail every time I add new commits to that pull request?
< 1321126733 44158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are they one and the same
< 1321126761 673689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to do anything with the .cabal file or .lhs file to make the document link work on the webpage?
< 1321126787 538476 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't seem to.
< 1321126800 69022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Darn-- I mean oh good.
< 1321126801 219195 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let rec zeros = 0 :: zeros
< 1321126805 605862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (0:)
< 1321126806 49576 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, that actually works in OCaml?
< 1321126806 354149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,...
< 1321126811 518862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I doubt it...
< 1321126811 678409 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it works in Haskell
< 1321126817 65704 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Phantom__Hoover is the primary detractor of my contributions to the field of parity relations between powers of primes in infinite cyclic abelian groups and commutative monoids
< 1321126820 787019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What link
< 1321126821 847595 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but OCaml is strict, and yet I've just seen it in someone else's OCaml code
< 1321126828 913971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: A student's?
< 1321126833 933998 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, on a blog
< 1321126837 538020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link?
< 1321126844 866221 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alaska-kamtchatka.blogspot.com/2011/11/modular-semantics-for-brainfuck.html
< 1321126868 389298 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Hackage webpage for a Haskell library.
< 1321126874 205643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://old.nabble.com/lazy-infinite-lists-td22922684.html
< 1321126878 197251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I doubt it's valid
< 1321126885 826741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's a "document link"
< 1321126889 545189 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let rec zeros = 0 :: zeros in match zeros with | a::b::t -> (a,b) | _ -> (9,9) ;;
< 1321126890 920202 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : int * int = (0, 0)
< 1321126893 81397 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what?
< 1321126907 850581 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many packages you can select the name of the module to view the list of functions and types in them. But mine doesn't work, and a few other that aren't mine also don't work.
< 1321126923 892973 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the second case is to avoid the warning for not being exhaustive that'd have made it harder to copy/paste otherwise)
< 1321126925 609784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I have a solution to your confusion! Don't use OCaml.
< 1321126932 630043 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like OCaml
< 1321126940 782270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop liking it, then :)
< 1321126949 80241 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh no
< 1321126951 350279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It IS a workable solution, you have to admit.;
< 1321126954 544811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;//
< 1321126962 973287 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let rec zeros = 0 :: zeros ;;
< 1321126963 914277 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you understand what I meant now?
< 1321126964 421665 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val zeros : int list =
< 1321126970 962500 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it prints about 12 to 15 lines of zeros and a ...
< 1321126981 547547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I already told you it takes up to 6 hours for Haddock documentation to be generated
< 1321126995 675254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has already been more than 6 hours since I send that package.
< 1321126998 807422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll fail if it doesn't build on the hackage machine (a build failure log will be linked from the package page)
< 1321127008 614031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: since you sent the latest version? anyway, it has to rebuild the documentation for every single package
< 1321127016 203045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it almost certainly takes at least an hour to run, and probably much longer
< 1321127017 670694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any build failure log either
< 1321127022 88684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a day or so and check again
< 1321127058 392402 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it works on my computer!
< 1321127079 268724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why doesn't it work on their computer?
< 1321127111 525326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did I say it didn't?
< 1321127120 888146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, every 6 hours it rebuilds the documentation of every single package
< 1321127124 655446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few thousand
< 1321127129 975116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will take a while for it to reach your package
< 1321127176 26098 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# type 'a l = Cons of ('a * 'a l) | Nil ;;
< 1321127177 347627 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type 'a l = Cons of ('a * 'a l) | Nil
< 1321127178 753111 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let rec zeros = Cons (0, zeros) ;;
< 1321127180 349361 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val zeros : int l =
< 1321127180 426057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is how it works? Can't they fix it so that it only rebuilds when it needs to do so, allowing their computer to run more efficiently?
< 1321127188 438772 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and then it outputs the start of the structure
< 1321127200 837838 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I /guess/ type constructors in OCaml are lazy even if the rest of the language isn't, or something like that
< 1321127214 713586 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it was specific to lists, but it seems not to be, as even defining lists by hand it works
< 1321127217 602928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's no way to tell what needs to be rebuilt without reverse dependency information, which hackage 1.0 doesn't generate
< 1321127224 668511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I bet let rec just adds an implicit ()
< 1321127232 70843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, umm, lets it type like that anyway
< 1321127240 991451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inserts () at non-RHS call points
< 1321127242 729548 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then executing it would take forever
< 1321127243 306277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1321127244 62175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something
< 1321127246 849642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no
< 1321127251 324621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't insert the () on the RHS of the let rec
< 1321127255 646663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just unsafeCoerces it :P
< 1321127258 924453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally plausible theory!
< 1321127258 969917 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that /is/ being lazy
< 1321127274 168729 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've just basically defined lazy lambda
< 1321127275 334200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: except not type safe
< 1321127279 489393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and impossible
< 1321127307 751638 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1321127318 811812 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let rec test = test ;;
< 1321127320 98379 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: This kind of expression is not allowed as right-hand side of `let rec'
< 1321127322 339624 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possibility would be to change the orders so that packages that have neither documentation nor build fail logs will be given priority. And then their priority is removed after it tries once, whether it fail or succeed.
< 1321127328 159218 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that just made me even more confused
< 1321127343 712948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: hi
< 1321127353 19263 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let rec test () = test () ;;
< 1321127354 352436 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val test : unit -> 'a = 
< 1321127355 330460 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1321127357 556499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or they could just rewrite hackage to not suck, which is what hackage 2.0 is :P
< 1321127370 470497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno when they're planning to finish it though, i guess next year
< 1321127376 557183 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit -> 'a is /always/ bottom, right (exception or infinite loop)?
< 1321127388 239838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: it's not always bottom
< 1321127390 217413 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ais523\unfoog learning OCaml?
< 1321127393 464553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either bottom or const bottom
< 1321127402 520744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm
< 1321127405 815386 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be const bottom
< 1321127406 196186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml doesn't really have bottoms like that
< 1321127410 149112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes it can
< 1321127412 13543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be bottom, though
< 1321127413 486818 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 'a might not be a function type
< 1321127421 575550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: your definition of "it" is stupid
< 1321127427 568368 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, by "it" I meant the return value
< 1321127430 416504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're quoting a type, and then using "it" to mean a value of a different type P:
< 1321127431 264818 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321127431 676251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321127433 794277 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321127433 839666 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321127437 516236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess makes some sense in a strict language
< 1321127445 166725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely not in a lazy one, since you have proper _|_s
< 1321127447 944158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: he already knows ocaml
< 1321127460 507404 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I'm /teaching/ OCaml
< 1321127468 469948 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but atm it's acting suspiciously like Haskell when it shouldn't be
< 1321127471 326564 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm experimenting
< 1321127481 637417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fav. ocaml feature is -rectypes
< 1321127489 75024 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do?
< 1321127494 262928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allows recursive types
< 1321127513 969648 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let rec zeros() = 0 :: zeros() in zeros() ;;
< 1321127515 413744 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack overflow during evaluation (looping recursion?).
< 1321127533 308875 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: let rec is specialcased to lazify recursion when it's defining a non-function type
< 1321127537 91884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they should still have priorities though
< 1321127551 578136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hackagedb 2.0 already works, so i doubt anyone wants to add new things to 1.0
< 1321127551 860346 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's consistent with all the experiments so far, I think
< 1321127558 112789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: but it /can't/, they'd have to build their runtime representation around that
< 1321127565 957506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: and incur all the costs of laziness at every call site without the benefits
< 1321127600 375539 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321127608 501091 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the logical representation of an immutable infinite repeating lazy list is to loop the list round to point at /itself/
< 1321127619 47135 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know cyclic structures can exist in OCaml
< 1321127624 689103 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that's the syntax for constructing them
< 1321127649 191574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: a cyclic structure makes a really awful brainfuck tape, if you mutate it
< 1321127660 552780 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321127673 348637 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the article there is using lists, not arrays
< 1321127675 652476 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Ocaml not have polymorphic recursion or was that only SML?
< 1321127682 268951 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lists contain integers, not integer references
< 1321127686 170831 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's immutable by definition
< 1321127691 89347 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "did"?
< 1321127691 185375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src cycle
< 1321127691 615921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle [] = undefined
< 1321127691 781866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle xs = xs' where xs' = xs ++ xs'
< 1321127700 982687 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what do you mean by polymorphic recursion?
< 1321127714 665321 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can certainly write polymorphic recursive functions, but that's so obvious I doubt it's what you mean
< 1321127762 521686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: OCaml still can't do concurrency at all, right?
< 1321127762 928494 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Hmm, I was going to explain my usage of "did" instead of "does" but now I wonder if it's not a Finglishism
< 1321127768 904603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has prepared his laugh track.
< 1321127774 970695 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has a -threads param to the compiler
< 1321127783 55225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It seems OK to me, if you are referring to past experience with OCaml
< 1321127787 72034 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives it a threading library, either VM-level or native-thread-level
< 1321127808 656228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Hmm, a quick google strongly suggested they were purely green threads
< 1321127809 493735 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: to me you were implying OCaml no longer existed
< 1321127821 626356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm
< 1321127822 149293 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321127827 426711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Is it native threads but with a big gigantic lock on everything
< 1321127837 50725 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway hang on, I'm devising a Haskell example
< 1321127837 345559 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps; I wrote a build system mentioning it recently; but it was for someone else's code
< 1321127847 518862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling strongly suggests that it is
< 1321127850 315653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, time to cash in
< 1321127852 249028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION [laugh track]
< 1321127878 977069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how dare you ridicule a sacred American custom.
< 1321127889 529471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have greatly disrespected my people.
< 1321127930 802492 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- &1
< 1321127932 502572 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- *1
< 1321127937 22214 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's not what I meant
< 1321127971 374525 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- &1
< 1321127972 690069 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :head: 0
< 1321127974 164624 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail: *1
< 1321127975 723408 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1321127980 483636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAML?
< 1321127982 142884 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect /that/'s what zeroes is, in OCAML
< 1321127983 960635 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep
< 1321127985 359870 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OCaml
< 1321127995 588827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: use common lisp notation, sheesh :P
< 1321127997 6650 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out YAML can represent cyclic structures
< 1321128000 236050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1#=(0 . #1#)
< 1321128001 136061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know
< 1321128007 435805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAML is kind of ridiculously overengineered.
< 1321128019 987300 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Okay, this, basically:
< 1321128020 726993 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWithFlipping :: (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c]
< 1321128020 772401 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWithFlipping f (a:as) (b:bs) = f a b : zipWithFlipping (flip f) bs as
< 1321128020 772559 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWithFlipping _ _ _ = []
< 1321128023 298172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: incidentally, I've had more @ Thoughts(tm) since a prototype design seemed to come together, but they've mostly been of the form "wow, X would be so much ridiculously faster in @" or "wow, X would be so much ridiculously easier to program in @"
< 1321128044 939748 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have Anarchy Thoughts along those lines, or occasionally Cyclexa Thoughts
< 1321128066 61967 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two languages actually have some similarities
< 1321128073 383426 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazingly
< 1321128100 420975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: f _ _ = ([], []); f (x:xs) (y:ys) = (x:xs', y:ys') where (xs',ys') = f ys xs?
< 1321128105 256110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then zipWith on that)
< 1321128148 262082 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, I'm not sure what you're asking
< 1321128152 174721 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWithFlipping = zipWith
< 1321128168 84580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it is
< 1321128172 642758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the double-flip
< 1321128180 262836 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1321128184 45972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: The most recent one has been that, AFAICT, a naive web server in @ would beat the crap out of just about any other httpd that doesn't run in a kernel/on bare metal or on an FPGA or similar ridiculousness
< 1321128206 268209 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that without the type signature, the inferred type of zipWithFlipping would be (a -> a -> b) -> [a] -> [a] -> [b]
< 1321128208 923819 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm thinking about what an FPGA web server would be like
< 1321128211 113339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (thinking inspired by seeing an article in the Monad.Reader where nginx's performance was beat with fairly simple Haskell)
< 1321128214 130357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's been done
< 1321128238 606475 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great at static files, although if there were more simultaneous connections than it expected it'd have trouble
< 1321128246 808105 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm almost certain that SML doesn't like this, but I'm not sure whether OCaml does
< 1321128247 989022 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321128281 468954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: But yeah, the article basically said that saving one syscall per request constituted a relevant, real time saving, and any added overhead of CPU time in @ will be dwarfed by syscall time in the Unix version and IO time in general
< 1321128296 987026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ha, take that operating systems
< 1321128317 188750 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which syscall was it, in the Haskell case?
< 1321128321 214299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I'd beat TUX though... unless I had a really fancy IO subsystem
< 1321128332 582529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh, it was just talking in general, but lemme dig up the example
< 1321128402 30029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: "Warp uses the recv system call to receive an HTTP request and the writev system
< 1321128402 167348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call to send an HTTP header. When sending an HTTP body based on a file, it
< 1321128402 212743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses the sendfile package which unnecessarily issues the lseek and stat system
< 1321128402 212892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calls in addition to sendfile. While one could believe that the sendfile system call
< 1321128402 212991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fast thanks to its zero-copying approach, the package is actually much slower
< 1321128403 114784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :than we expected. We implemented the simple-sendfile package which does not
< 1321128405 154730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use lseek and stat. The system calls that the package uses are only open, sendfile,
< 1321128407 164682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and close. Since sockets are marked non-blocking, sendfile returns EAGAIN if the
< 1321128409 150707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :size of a file is large. In this case, the simple-sendfile package issues sendfile
< 1321128411 110122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :again without lseek to send the rest of the file."
< 1321128421 293928 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1321128426 146748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice timing
< 1321128431 983632 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PART #esoteric :"Hug~♪"
< 1321128432 921267 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321128460 347477 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321128472 490003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: See logs :P
< 1321128475 507068 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that was confusing
< 1321128486 121751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: There were no numbers specifically for that change, but replacing the time library with their specialised http-date gave a 20x speedup in the date code itself, and combined with the simple-sendfile switch brought it from 4,229 queries/s to 22,713 queries/s; I think that's probably mostly due to the time stuff, though
< 1321128499 650352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Again, see logs for context :P)
< 1321128587 356704 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, the stat/seek was what lead to the problem
< 1321128608 312488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1321128617 88890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yep; I'm not sure it's necessarily a disk IO thing, though
< 1321128626 626269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the request timing was on the same file
< 1321128628 174803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'd be in cache
< 1321128656 428132 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321128685 326822 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321128807 411112 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321128822 756233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, I need to figure out how to optimise referencing a large bytestring that isn't in RAM and sending it to a socket
< 1321128838 479344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it'll already be done in chunks, so the behaviour will be vaguely reasonable
< 1321128846 650019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could do fancy DMAy scatter-gathery nonsense, perhaps
< 1321128878 749952 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/Teaching/Resources/COMS30122/haskell/calc/index.html
< 1321128886 557989 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually a nice hand-written parser actually.
< 1321128895 238251 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actally)
< 1321128938 867218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSPA update for all who care
< 1321128950 129099 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you already know
< 1321128957 755013 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starts with Jane: Examine Fetch Modus
< 1321128965 616170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I would have used operators for the binary Rule constructors, and State for the parse function that returns ([Token], [Tree])
< 1321129044 285788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no a tuple is fine.
< 1321129166 697159 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321129383 989922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Writing a parser "by hand" with tuples is kinda stupid, you're not more hardcore for forcing yourself to rewrite the (>>=) plumbing in every single rule
< 1321129453 354404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, I was simply saying for a handwritten parser it's very clearly written.
< 1321129466 792158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1321129513 956742 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written parsers with Parsec and (>>=) is not needed often.
< 1321129634 743562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the <$> <* <*> *> <|> plumbing
< 1321129671 255348 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, <$> <* <*> *> <|> seem much more useful in parsers. Sometimes even <$ as well
< 1321129703 571890 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use <$> and <*> with monads often.
< 1321129733 610702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<$> is useful with any monads (even any functors) in general.
< 1321130032 521834 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Data.Monoid.Plus package can make the probilities of sum of dice by:  runWriterT . monoidicMap getProduct . probNorm $ liftA2 (+) dice dice   where   dice = uniform [1..6]   and it can be modified to work with loaded dice, too.
< 1321130064 336378 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are the "many" and "some" functions useful with parsers too
< 1321130154 523947 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321130176 299394 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321130176 526221 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321130176 571577 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321130539 310895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc you wanted to know more about dragons in Skyrim?
< 1321130555 316933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I battled quite a few now, I could tell you if you want
< 1321130587 240550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessss tell me all about the dragons and also answer which GPU you have.
< 1321130601 13687 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321130619 528075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321130645 713033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to begin with there are quite a few animation bugs. For example, dragons tend to crash land when they get like below ~10% health. This works fine on flat terrain. It looks quite weird on a slope. It looks absolutely silly on a set of stairs.
< 1321130652 235108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of animation bugs there
< 1321130683 480688 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 was saying something relevant to my interests
< 1321130687 873997 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1321130695 523525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, other than that, they would be quite hard to hit for significant damage in the sky without frost or fire spells (depending on type of dragon)
< 1321130702 111872 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321130706 265461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just can't see a non-magic user handling this at all
< 1321130722 939863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows don't seem to do much damage
< 1321130738 126415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear they're pretty easy to battle
< 1321130742 391614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you just suck :P
< 1321130747 603569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep, with magic they are easy
< 1321130756 19357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on average difficulty
< 1321130760 982864 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: Please be more specific.
< 1321130776 382478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, further training in bow related skills might make it easier for an archer
< 1321130780 220400 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Something about probability
< 1321130797 501159 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probability is among your interests?
< 1321130799 54931 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about probability?
< 1321130820 358189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but primarily non-ranged weapon users will run into some issues definitely
< 1321130837 429990 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Someone wants me to implement MCMC in Haskell. I think I know Haskell better than him, but I'm clueless about MCMC
< 1321130868 75271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does MCMC means?
< 1321130873 923808 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraftminecraft.
< 1321130877 661381 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monte Carlo Markov Chain
< 1321130882 236065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, other than that it is quite fun. Of course, skyrim has ragdoll physics... I think that is what causes most of the brokenness with the crash landing
< 1321130883 851342 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it the other way around
< 1321130886 74188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash does things because people tell him to.
< 1321130895 458497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GGGGGGGPPPPPPUUUUU
< 1321130932 1463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Radeon HD 6850, 1 GB GDDR5 (or 1.5? forgot...)
< 1321130959 704286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Radeon. (It occurs to me that maybe my Linux-oriented anti-ATI bias is outdated.)
< 1321130972 751692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, nvidia sucks quite a bit nowdays too
< 1321130976 657123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for newer GPUs
< 1321130986 527400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck about the same amount nowdays
< 1321130988 86718 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nVidia sucks with Linux now? Boo
< 1321130992 413265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, but at least it's not Catalyst.
< 1321130995 87439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash, well, for newer cards
< 1321131014 104968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true. Still the open drivers for radeon are way ahead of the ones for nvidia
< 1321131022 624991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but nobody cares about that :P
< 1321131026 170109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite there yet for my card model
< 1321131028 810474 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it necessary to fight the dragon to complete the game?
< 1321131047 199509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, plural I believe
< 1321131063 968341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes so far I needed to fight two of them to complete main story missions
< 1321131076 530426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321131089 9543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I completely missed out on something, I would say "yes, you have to do that"
< 1321131089 414119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can certainly write polymorphic recursive functions, but that's so obvious I doubt it's what you mean
< 1321131115 980542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :polymorphic recursion in haskell refers to a function directly or indirectly calling itself with a different type
< 1321131138 331415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway the graphical quality in the game on the ultra setting is "meh". Better than oblivion yes. However it was clearly made with consoles in mind. Which have somewhat outdated hardware by now.
< 1321131160 557367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've seen, it has the advantage over Oblivion of not being hideous
< 1321131165 406115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you want the best graphics on a PC currently in an RPG it is witcher 2 that you should play
< 1321131173 113701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful which such datastructures as autobalanced trees: data Tree a = Leaf a | Tree (a,a)
< 1321131178 4025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't expect to do that on ultra though
< 1321131260 845177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I do hope dragons are leveled. Or they are going to be a fucking joke when I'm at a higher level.
< 1321131278 89017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you fit an atx mobo into an eatx case?
< 1321131282 895608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so far I have seen ones breathing fire and ones breathing ice.
< 1321131294 924278 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dragons breathing dragons
< 1321131304 910414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /pretty/ sure atx is larger than eatx
< 1321131311 619914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, eatx is extended atx?
< 1321131313 849057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in a VERY big eatx case?
< 1321131316 345937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321131318 729151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this thing fits atx
< 1321131322 185443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is the smaller one?
< 1321131323 669110 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321131330 434507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also why do you want an eatx case?
< 1321131351 189764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume you are building yourself a new computer?
< 1321131365 254831 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What package does that probability stuff come from, if any?
< 1321131365 454663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I'm helping Phantom__Hoover by way of shoving a list of parts at him; consider it practice.
< 1321131498 994208 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321131520 169505 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN A CASE COST TWENTY POUNDS MORE THAN A CPU
< 1321131536 861920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw recommended is quad core or better. and you want a strong CPU. When playing I see the all the cores (including the HT ones) pretty loaded (70-100) on a 3.4 GHz quad core i7 so...
< 1321131571 474531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, heh
< 1321131577 562992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, what sort of case is that?
< 1321131596 370830 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One born of elliott failing to understand the site's list system.
< 1321131618 707292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more used to picking parts from sites I can't actually buy things from.
< 1321131628 268471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, I read that it's crap at threading (= 2 threads only).
< 1321131680 308956 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than DF.
< 1321131703 703233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: There are other Haskell packages having probability stuff, which I don't know, but my package "monoidplus" has the things I described.
< 1321131710 804766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, strange then. Or I guess process explorer shouldn't be trusted
< 1321131717 481160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no I haven't even tried to use wine for it)
< 1321131734 619462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But yeah, I'll go for either an i7 or a Phenom II x6, most likely
< 1321131739 88911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably i7
< 1321131742 409893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should be fine on that front
< 1321131751 196369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.4 GHz is ridiculous though, you're just wasting power :P
< 1321131759 508438 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The docs aren't showing up on Hackage
< 1321131770 187729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well they didn't have a 3.3 GHz option for i7. They only have that for i5
< 1321131771 285898 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless you're playing DF.
< 1321131775 387303 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why's that wasting power
< 1321131781 671309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that i5 should be enough to play it though
< 1321131793 690741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, dynamic clock frequency
< 1321131793 923825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because CPU speed is roughly irrelevant for everything compared to cores nowadays above like 2.8 GHz?
< 1321131796 84176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: I know. I think it will take a long time to do so. The same is the case for other new packages (I checked the "what's new")
< 1321131805 113966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is awesome for df
< 1321131806 953504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321131808 192870 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why's that?
< 1321131819 205001 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah, ok
< 1321131833 602308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway they have a 3.5 GHz version too
< 1321131837 270211 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's kind of annoying to deal with though, I wonder why that is
< 1321131844 895974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I suppose it's not really true for games which are the topic here, but even those are becoming more GPU-bound in general I'd say
< 1321131905 752992 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much CPU-using software I run doesn't utilize multiple threads, I'd say there's always call for more single-threaded speed
< 1321131929 862420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call perhaps, but it's only going to drop
< 1321131954 508236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash:  http://sprunge.us/NCZE
< 1321131983 247709 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1321132008 863944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway isn't there that turbo mode thingy when a single core only is loaded? I wonder what the speed for that is
< 1321132011 835447 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between mpappend and mappend supposed to be?
< 1321132051 618377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: "That is, it is a monoid that the original monoid is distributive over."
< 1321132058 248967 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: mappend distributes over mpappend
< 1321132068 195025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, multiplication distributes over addition)
< 1321132214 492496 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's head spins
< 1321132247 466011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would use   WriterT (Product x) []   for probability distributions, where x should be Double or Rational depending what you need
< 1321132251 971651 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :distribution: confusing stuff
< 1321132372 288077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probability functions will still work though, as long as the monoid used is a normalizable semiring. But in general you use Product
< 1321132430 168874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it isn't Product, it won't act like a real probability distribution in all ways; although in some ways it can)
< 1321132442 373078 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321132465 579788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sequence
< 1321132466 735343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => [m a] -> m [a]
< 1321132488 545191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence is almost sort of kind of distribution.
< 1321132528 218238 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There might also be monads other than [] that can be used, although the functions I have don't work with others)
< 1321132541 830809 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the type of sequence is like distribution
< 1321132550 264589 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the program is the proof. :>
< 1321132598 341203 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321132598 749419 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321132598 795062 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321132628 137849 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do silly nested pattern matching like xs@(a:b:ys@(w:x:[]))?
< 1321132641 252982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell
< 1321132648 827579 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not silly, and yes
< 1321132660 329695 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool
< 1321132665 8156 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes this soo much easier
< 1321132685 397561 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, wait
< 1321132688 493945 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f xs@(a:b:ys@(w:x:[])) = (xs,a,b,ys,w,x) in f [1,2,3,4]
< 1321132689 259591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ([1,2,3,4],1,2,[3,4],3,4)
< 1321132708 484480 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant
< 1321132729 135217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle m [a] -> [m a]
< 1321132729 617684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List transpose :: [[a]] -> [[a]]
< 1321132729 812521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1321132729 857989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List inits :: [a] -> [[a]]
< 1321132734 319476 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is EXACTLY what I wanted, Deewiant
< 1321132736 382100 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321132736 551537 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you
< 1321132736 718601 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321132736 763702 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321132760 386643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Monad m) => m [a] -> [m a]
< 1321132760 432186 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321132760 950353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List transpose :: [[a]] -> [[a]]
< 1321132761 77816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1321132761 123094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad join :: Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
< 1321132763 965889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1321132797 352918 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I didn't need it
< 1321132835 934832 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You can't pull it out of the monad, it'd have to be m a -> m [m a]
< 1321132842 95128 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, m [a] -> m [m a]
< 1321132864 200270 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle m [a]
< 1321132864 704861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Trans.List runListT :: ListT m a -> m [a]
< 1321132864 750174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.List runListT :: ListT a -> m [a]
< 1321132864 750331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative many :: Alternative f => f a -> f [a]
< 1321132865 465047 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321132868 701151 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle m [a] -> m [m a]
< 1321132869 202721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List transpose :: [[a]] -> [[a]]
< 1321132869 330896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1321132869 376192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List inits :: [a] -> [[a]]
< 1321132873 30218 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fmap (map return)
< 1321132873 216285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321132873 901288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) (f :: * -> *). (Monad m, Functor f) => f [a] -> f [m a]
< 1321132880 387039 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321132892 615832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: essentially.
< 1321132920 8612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what kind of formulas Python programs are proving.
< 1321132920 259782 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty liftM (map return) :: Monad m => m [a] -> m [m a]
< 1321132921 249731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m [a] -> m [m a]
< 1321132950 125758 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321133032 647932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish quasiquoters nested.
< 1321133082 540815 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too :(
< 1321133090 233442 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also wish (pattern) guards nested
< 1321133102 779029 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh
< 1321133104 747960 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things??
< 1321133141 310099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish nests nested.
< 1321133167 27303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and numbers.
< 1321133168 790984 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and strings.
< 1321133175 631029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as too much nesting.
< 1321133209 29 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :12(3(47))4  best nested number
< 1321133214 358567 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad number
< 1321133225 392635 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s{lolololols{rofl}} best nested string
< 1321133226 477442 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't trust you with strings
< 1321133234 170832 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's a bad string
< 1321133238 869339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not what I was expecting
< 1321133344 132206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data NChar = NCharCharLol Char | NCharStringLol String
< 1321133349 333582 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type NString = [NChar]
< 1321133362 743588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to work on the naming scehems
< 1321133393 905031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use Either
< 1321133405 823937 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bad
< 1321133455 187437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got an awesome idea for an esolang
< 1321133464 79053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an extremely difficult to parse esolang. :)
< 1321133477 519244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for example
< 1321133481 943078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it possible to do silly nested pattern matching like xs@(a:b:ys@(w:x:[]))? <-- that one can be simplified to xs@(a:b:ys@[w,x])
< 1321133489 879459 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a circumfix string quote token, it uses a postfix token.
< 1321133495 56366 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a string here "
< 1321133513 931791 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do I put modules that I want to install?
< 1321133527 875337 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unfortunately not xs@[a,b,ys@{w,x}] or something
< 1321133639 212779 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321133689 320032 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ziim looks like something refreshingly new
< 1321133855 178083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, also
< 1321133942 123247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :control structures appear at the end of their blocks of code, allowing arbitrary delimers.
< 1321133949 91550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*delimiters
< 1321133960 547009 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does my OS keeps running this IRC program automatically ?
< 1321133972 568245 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using Pidgin
< 1321133981 340397 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the IRC client
< 1321134120 818766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: It is because you can never escape.
< 1321134127 746742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: )
< 1321134131 251206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*
< 1321134135 345562 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no escape from #esoteric ?
< 1321134149 418868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's Timwi for you! Great languages, agonising IRC experience.
< 1321134155 380763 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a number..
< 1321134163 781228 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a free software !!
< 1321134170 281322 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( prisioner quote )
< 1321134184 784230 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( well except that last bit )
< 1321134185 240883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's a prisoner quote
< 1321134193 356141 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can Checkout any time you like, but you can never Tree? (There is no esolang called Leaf, this is bad.)
< 1321134201 754797 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~= ( not exactly )
< 1321134206 767855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: you can http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout any time you like, though...
< 1321134230 615310 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TImwi?
< 1321134250 538813 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, an esolanger
< 1321134255 119667 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Publisher
< 1321134257 431762 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :183)  ais523, what is "MS Publisher"?   Vorpal, you don't want to know.   Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer   Vorpal: "horrible"
< 1321134264 223901 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/MS Publisher/Timwi/
< 1321134273 968260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: damn you, oh wait scratch that ais523 might ban me
< 1321134291 706509 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to know!
< 1321134318 215324 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi isn't nearly as bad as MS Publisher
< 1321134327 8646 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :few things are, to be fair
< 1321134413 200201 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Holocaust?
< 1321134415 469516 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often get banned from sexchat sites
< 1321134427 187142 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, I got banned from all of 'em almost
< 1321134440 184519 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the ones I've been in
< 1321134445 10423 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I change IPs !!
< 1321134458 882572 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even my ISP changes locations once in a while
< 1321134476 292299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's poetry.
< 1321134477 59096 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its not the client side
< 1321134498 475831 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause I know my PC
< 1321134550 797126 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware to software
< 1321134558 370277 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :internals
< 1321134632 377354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well #esoteric is only very occasionally a sexchat site.
< 1321134644 461314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe you can escape a ban.
< 1321134663 895516 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known of IRC bans since the early 90s
< 1321134666 185767 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an asexual, I don't go on sexchat sites very often
< 1321134666 694141 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less occasionally if you're gay.
< 1321134691 538299 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to give them mostly, and rarely had to escape them
< 1321134695 486833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does less occasionally mean more or less often
< 1321134705 778432 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More often.
< 1321134717 831941 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often changed IPs cause I was on a dail-up
< 1321134737 51585 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It costed a few cents to change IPs
< 1321134757 851572 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could even change it by a wide range
< 1321134773 563736 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and started dreaming of what is now know as
< 1321134790 32322 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IP 'stealther'
< 1321134807 154927 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just watched [S] Cascade again
< 1321134807 612908 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the digital modem (router)
< 1321134808 446068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good.
< 1321134811 412293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest registering your nick so you can be banned consistently.
< 1321134844 413286 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was possible, oh wait they had Profiles so yea, maybe
< 1321134846 382455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much more convenient.
< 1321134867 40163 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am being blocked by somekind of an ISP ban
< 1321134880 48973 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never bothered to check what it was exactly
< 1321134894 692758 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am used to be welcome on any digital media
< 1321134902 67211 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcomed
< 1321134910 423911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome pkzip
< 1321134990 385488 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually pkzip was my old nickname on the IRCs
< 1321135006 987772 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to find a new one
< 1321135014 944289 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite fit in here
< 1321135039 536735 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like assembly, compilers, computer languages, brainf*ck and forth
< 1321135062 609395 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to work on virii and protection/security software
< 1321135069 771769 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck!?
< 1321135070 122243 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though noone heared of me
< 1321135072 507424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get uot!
< 1321135074 996909 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321135077 693190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to truly fit in, you must also hate brainfuck derivatives and lolcode.
< 1321135090 397624 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a version of it which is really tiny
< 1321135103 190899 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dream of the minimal compiler at nights
< 1321135117 6556 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want the easy of a language
< 1321135135 422171 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no 2-word or 3-word compilers for me (unless its HEX)
< 1321135169 580751 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy: sub that with ease
< 1321135181 10330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: *viruses
< 1321135211 24433 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of some new ideas that appeared only years later in the virii scene
< 1321135221 432390 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least 2 ideas
< 1321135222 323448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latin virus is an uncountable noun, so any weird plural is suspect.
< 1321135247 707356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone here is a language pedant.
< 1321135280 831618 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hate BF, just because it is popular and starting to be taken for a real language
< 1321135303 314386 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen good native compilers for it
< 1321135311 78764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: i didn't say hate brainfuck, i said hate brainfuck _derivatives_.  very different thing.
< 1321135318 720535 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including some great ones which only lately appeared
< 1321135344 316710 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my own derivative (I call it a traslator)
< 1321135366 459312 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its not so far apart from the original, its actually backward compatible.
< 1321135384 138675 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone vouch that elliott's list of parts is likely to be trustworthy?
< 1321135386 466228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: really? is it backwards compatible with characters that aren't ,.[]<>+- being comments?
< 1321135389 589881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of bf
< 1321135399 235122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: bsmntbombdood isn't here but I actually sent you the list of parts for a bomb.
< 1321135418 711807 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought it slightly exceeded his specs.
< 1321135428 444732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Hm?
< 1321135441 72599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves at the CIA
< 1321135456 238911 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't he have 8GB of RAM?
< 1321135462 203714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: 16.
< 1321135465 453147 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember saying that
< 1321135467 492885 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1321135483 205250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: His was pre-Sandy Bridge i7, though, and ISTR Sandy Bridge was a pretty big improvement.
< 1321135489 731466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Also he has a really crappy passively-cooled Nvidia card.
< 1321135495 349945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or had.
< 1321135501 598802 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the Char zero
< 1321135513 341877 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 0 ascii code
< 1321135536 404181 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for assembly meno
< 1321135545 527531 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(code)
< 1321135548 687673 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :entry
< 1321135568 712974 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess so
< 1321135581 407653 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your gonna hate the fact it has I/O
< 1321135618 183245 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses one letter for basic INPUT and another for OUTPUT
< 1321135649 698126 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you so pedantic about BF comments ?
< 1321135669 104052 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this " any letter is a comment " do for BF ?
< 1321135679 638237 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321135693 525832 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input is " ? " and output is " ! "
< 1321135701 671451 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its not a letter
< 1321135713 549561 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello word :
< 1321135721 293782 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :world:
< 1321135727 662984 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi World !
< 1321135761 892760 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space is ascii 0 or 255 ( I don't remember exactly )
< 1321135802 452586 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its wasn't published in esoteric
< 1321135811 389066 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see ais523 in here ..
< 1321135829 170922 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321135865 806835 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves
< 1321135895 705743 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I better not mention a brainfuck compiler which isn't 100% pure
< 1321135908 394014 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but backward compatible)
< 1321135946 585847 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the Output word was " . " ( as in original BF )
< 1321135972 999573 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I know for sure its " . ", I think slowly after 12am
< 1321136022 412399 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Space should be 32, I think
< 1321136045 134627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: a bf compiler is probably pure, or you'll have side-effects you don't want clogging things up
< 1321136055 625353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFProg -> AsmProg or whatever seems reasonable to me
< 1321136068 915080 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use char 255 instead of space
< 1321136087 524541 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a code word)
< 1321136127 848838 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use char 0 but I doubt if most editors wud display it as SPACE
< 1321136167 811719 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a blog I've written for it, for awhile it was #1 on google for BF+Forth searches
< 1321136181 470230 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF+Forth+x86
< 1321136211 548885 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now its #200 (I doubt google even shows it)
< 1321136223 106861 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#200 or so
< 1321136277 258300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: starting to agree that idiom record notation is the best idea
< 1321136322 265750 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said it was the best!! i don't think it would support interleaving?? but it's kind of clean maybe
< 1321136330 609472 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively clean I mean
< 1321136350 180263 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of creating a MACHINE-READABLE HUMAN-WRITABLE NOTATION FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES
< 1321136356 101784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah i don't know what to do about interleaving? the only good syntax I can think of is basically do notation
< 1321136356 988166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is
< 1321136361 830513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) ugly and duplicatey
< 1321136365 29608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) not done for applicatives
< 1321136368 748985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it can be done restrictedly)
< 1321136371 709664 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm
< 1321136380 929437 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't like Yoob
< 1321136469 13198 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one of the transcripts in the Oracle vs. Google lawsuit was allcaps for reasons I don't understand, so I made it all lowercase instead
< 1321136472 269088 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks pretty weird either way
< 1321136475 209141 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anyone on #esoteric which isn't into low-level (native) code ?
< 1321136478 94450 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which do you think is more readable?
< 1321136493 238672 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :native code isn't /properly/ low-level ;)
< 1321136497 351843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: me
< 1321136512 228677 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know x86 code ?
< 1321136529 297463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never learned x86 assembly, no
< 1321136554 508121 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suspect only a few people actually know all of modern x86 asm, it has weird corners that are rarely used
< 1321136565 404155 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders htf x86 won
< 1321136569 772814 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=-O
< 1321136570 791282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i _may_ have written something like a hello world way back in the 80s
< 1321136575 575271 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shocked
< 1321136624 855117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, i'm nowhere near a professional programmer
< 1321136639 459745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: all lowercase is more readable, definitely
< 1321136650 546658 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think so
< 1321136655 741514 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I had the setting handy in my browser
< 1321136670 301965 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LeetKey has been remarkably useful as a Firefox extension, even if I don't use it for its intended use at all)
< 1321136670 962461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: I can sort of write x86 asembly given a lot of time and documentation, but I don't like to, and I think it's a pretty crappy language.
< 1321136682 284119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some other CPUs have nice assembly languages though, but I can't code in 'em.
< 1321136694 120638 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first learnt 6502 asm
< 1321136702 50644 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not the best asm in the world, but is way better than x86's
< 1321136707 515814 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel x86 on MacroASM was fun in the 90s and its fun now
< 1321136727 883284 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arm ASM is said to be nice
< 1321136738 698348 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP11 is a legand
< 1321136757 912205 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are near perfect
< 1321136774 832042 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or all 3
< 1321136815 663117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: Depends what your definition of fun is. Also your definition of perfect.
< 1321136816 677054 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of something like Redcode when I think in terms of a good asm
< 1321136819 223488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _did_ learn some 6502 asm way back
< 1321136826 6910 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it isn't actually an asm for an actual processor)
< 1321136859 831803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, today was the day with the most changes on mezzawiki for about a year
< 1321136888 934769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very sketchily.  i realized years later that the manual i was reading was missing pages of instructions.
< 1321136890 182114 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was fun when watching The Jerusalem Virus do its 'thing'
< 1321136903 202070 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 100 Years virus ( aka 4K )
< 1321136915 714110 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or writing a virii noone cud see or bypass
< 1321136945 610628 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 100 Years Virus ( more known as 4 K )
< 1321136993 755553 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : your honor, this is michael jacobs from morrison & foerster. mr. van nest's understanding of the allegations here isn't correct, both in terms of numerosity and in terms of role, but i have the advantage of sitting in front of a computer as we are talking. if you search on bob lee, the first hit you get is a claim as follows. it's a twitter feed.
< 1321136998 905516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: *viruses
< 1321137000 67035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking this in case no one has yet: http://alaska-kamtchatka.blogspot.com/2011/11/modular-semantics-for-brainfuck.html
< 1321137011 686938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl
< 1321137011 800997 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
< 1321137016 316135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:  your honor, this is michael jacobs from morrison & foerster.
< 1321137016 577522 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, i too welcome the decision by the united states
< 1321137017 442536 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome: doing a Google Search during a court hearing and telling the judge what the hit was
< 1321137031 316858 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a telephone hearing, so people couldn't sensibly stop him
< 1321137034 18195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: please please tell me it was Oracle who did that, while fighting Google
< 1321137038 893072 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was
< 1321137043 191281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: :D
< 1321137047 100080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :google should have sued :P
< 1321137048 442216 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think; it gets hard to remember which lawyer is on which side
< 1321137128 724347 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few people were getting confused, actually, as it was a conference telephone call
< 1321137138 852043 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people had to keep saying who they were when they started talking
< 1321137148 667826 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this lawsuit has to do with low-level programming ?
< 1321137158 713931 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or BF ?
< 1321137159 926302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we have to talk about low-level programming?
< 1321137162 409085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or BF?
< 1321137185 248577 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause BF is now taken as a good example of a basic compiler
< 1321137193 628204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand
< 1321137203 5299 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason
< 1321137203 228342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is for all topics of interest to those interested in esoteric computing
< 1321137214 11743 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BF is nice, but a bit atypical as esolangs go
< 1321137216 37341 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has numbers
< 1321137230 722611 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks languages are typically inferior if you can't implement numbers in them from scratch
< 1321137243 91433 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't BF the bread and butter of esolang ?
< 1321137248 568887 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1321137254 953314 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a classic ?
< 1321137264 847373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classic, yes
< 1321137266 82492 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is indeed a classic, but there are a bunch of other languages around
< 1321137269 156170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard, by no means no
< 1321137273 773017 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Piet
< 1321137275 902492 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Befunge
< 1321137280 169958 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Intercal
< 1321137285 524039 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Underload
< 1321137288 496581 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF is much more similar to mainstream languages than most esolangs
< 1321137293 640220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal, brainfuck, befunge, underload, unlambda
< 1321137296 997519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the classics
< 1321137305 553696 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always use Piet because I like Piet
< 1321137308 10681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok underload is somewhat of a modern classic :)
< 1321137309 385219 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not a classic
< 1321137347 220344 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like languages which are minimal and 'easy' (in the old BASIC 'nostalgic' style)
< 1321137365 314181 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF actually fits a purpose
< 1321137379 242204 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can I get you interested in Forth?
< 1321137392 781554 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *LOVE* Forth !
< 1321137394 965670 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a practical language, but an interesting one, not that similar to mainstream langs
< 1321137400 720598 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you would, somehow
< 1321137403 234156 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Zen Forth
< 1321137407 774491 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own version of it
< 1321137418 698510 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or revised version of it
< 1321137432 220514 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Minimal MacroASM Forth
< 1321137452 623119 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to add Lisp(y) words to it
< 1321137460 27081 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db403d8.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1321137469 34986 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And write DOS virii in it !
< 1321137484 401605 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop saying "virii"
< 1321137494 896057 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 NICK :QuickDirtyOS
< 1321137508 644415 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS viruses don't run all that well on modern systems
< 1321137512 92965 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno why they call it like that
< 1321137520 182313 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on WinXP they do
< 1321137523 853798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody calls it virii
< 1321137532 119557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickDirtyOS: err, WinXP's DOS is just an emulation layer
< 1321137537 310324 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it on hackers sites
< 1321137540 668060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they run about as well as Windows viruses under Wine
< 1321137541 632091 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be all pedantic and latin, it'd just be viri
< 1321137570 906029 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinXP Dos is as good as Win2000 (it was also emulated under Win2000)
< 1321137576 920724 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even then you'd be wrong
< 1321137583 238590 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like saying "oxygens"
< 1321137606 389461 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I named the first virus a " Logic bomb "
< 1321137611 683716 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in israel
< 1321137617 11422 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what
< 1321137617 669953 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: actually, it'd depend on where in the sentence it was
< 1321137624 131093 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a kid back than
< 1321137630 848562 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"virus" doesn't have a plural in Latin
< 1321137635 53504 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DOS virii" was the subject of that sentence, so it should be "DOS viros", I think
< 1321137636 144316 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prob. was near Jerusalem
< 1321137640 896345 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps -es, I haven't done Latin for ages
< 1321137644 557741 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it WAS the Jerusalem viri
< 1321137657 176344 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know what to call it
< 1321137669 904411 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321137671 175450 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for me, a "Logic bomb"
< 1321137678 37892 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, you mean "object"
< 1321137680 436998 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your "viri"
< 1321137691 811609 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: right, indeed
< 1321137693 333861 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*object
< 1321137694 642829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the singular is definitely virus
< 1321137702 164796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can agree on that, elliott
< 1321137705 658971 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like virus better
< 1321137708 834672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some old IBM BIOS had ROM BASIC. I would like to have the PC BIOS with Forth.
< 1321137715 2298 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even then, if you're going to be all Latiny, why wouldn't it become virum when it was the object of a sentence?
< 1321137722 21951 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did that with Linux
< 1321137733 805032 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why won't you buy a SSD
< 1321137747 287642 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put ForthOS in the Boot sector ?
< 1321137753 373427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, because, to paraphrase Henry Beard, that'd be like playing football with ice-skates on
< 1321137758 308351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: i was responding to: "your "viri""
< 1321137765 701162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just talk in latin.
< 1321137779 509261 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what if you were in a skating rink at the time?
< 1321137779 652190 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ita vero
< 1321137784 603135 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I like virus better too
< 1321137790 484070 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably work better with the skates than without
< 1321137794 698201 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think; I'm not an expert on this
< 1321137803 112902 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote viri to be 'exact'
< 1321137835 287202 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a SSD?
< 1321137842 412163 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pluralis in lingua Anglica est "viruses"
< 1321137844 121457 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Flash Disk
< 1321137859 694583 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Flash BIOS wud load Forth from a Flash Device.
< 1321137872 869189 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a storage device; it acts much like a hard disk, but is based on flash memory, rather than mechanical platters and magnetism
< 1321137873 636186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo AM I TRANSACTIONAL YET?!
< 1321137875 323090 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM I TRANSACTIONAL YET?!
< 1321137876 389988 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U heard of the LinuxBIOS btw ?
< 1321137879 314281 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321137883 33804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean coreboot?
< 1321137892 423480 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard of the LinuxBIOS/Coreboot
< 1321137895 270204 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1321137906 563352 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as far as I know it is not a proper PC BIOS
< 1321137908 187109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you want to be all pedantic and latin, it'd just be viri <-- it's dubious to assume this as the word is somewhat irregular: it's a neuter word in -us.
< 1321137909 897532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't support many motherboards to my knowledge.
< 1321137922 10591 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321137939 243073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also not a forth
< 1321137947 283286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+ of 2nd declination
< 1321137952 541996 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash can be turned into one REAL fast
< 1321137962 3508 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any of the shells
< 1321137963 377857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can x86
< 1321137964 590438 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we pretend it's in 4th to make our lives easier
< 1321137969 588814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make assembly a forth? :P
< 1321137978 118597 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1321137989 47882 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly and forth mix in my dreams
< 1321137992 785930 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on my PC
< 1321138002 647119 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138003 898400 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use forth words in MacroASM
< 1321138004 607777 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/addquote: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/addquote: cannot execute: Permission denied
< 1321138014 355661 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, is that /meant/ to happen?
< 1321138017 387579 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321138023 915663 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321138025 846370 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :560)  I think it's fizzie against everyone atm   AND EVERYONE IS WINNING   EXCEPT FIZZIE
< 1321138038 866280 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone readonlied the quotes file?
< 1321138051 72519 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, -xed addquote
< 1321138058 440505 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod a+x /hackenv/bin/addquote
< 1321138060 410861 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138063 772933 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138065 588166 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138071 884788 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh
< 1321138072 492734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm
< 1321138073 668548 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Forth
< 1321138075 956058 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :715)  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138078 290559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: please don't try patching things up when it's broken
< 1321138078 942246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321138080 95290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321138087 771707 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I assumed that someone had -xed it as a prank
< 1321138088 605594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, without understanding what's going on :P
< 1321138089 49250 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the number 715
< 1321138095 983579 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 714
< 1321138098 422974 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a hawkins Loc number
< 1321138098 468406 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :714) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something   Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.   Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
< 1321138101 987387 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod a-x /hackenv/bin/addquote
< 1321138102 971916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just broke adqduote
< 1321138104 34582 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138106 617744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hey, stop
< 1321138110 701041 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm putting it back!
< 1321138121 836252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/bbaa4fa982d2
< 1321138123 328451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1321138127 779666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/addquote
< 1321138129 737762 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138131 621725 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep my name on it:
< 1321138134 745679 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its Amit.
< 1321138138 522717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 715
< 1321138141 749608 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138149 995404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321138154 118854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a bad modification to addquote
< 1321138164 981666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'echo $(qc)") $1"' >>bin/addquote
< 1321138167 101549 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138171 124761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138173 583719 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :715 quotes)  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138176 662410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321138181 209102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert -3
< 1321138182 603157 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321138187 446667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'echo $(qc | cut -d' ' -f1)") $1"' >>bin/addquote
< 1321138189 413311 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138202 203207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138202 821557 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth guys are gonna love me
< 1321138210 372465 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For this
< 1321138211 949996 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo?
< 1321138214 51444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: tada... hurry up, dammit, HackEgo
< 1321138215 751483 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're just giving -d, not -d' ', as an argument to cut there
< 1321138220 102830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1321138221 795110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1321138223 167746 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321138229 889532 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickDirtyOS: For what?
< 1321138231 957129 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apostrophes don't nest
< 1321138233 21755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'echo $(qc | cut -d'"' '"' -f1)") $1"' >>bin/addquote
< 1321138235 107541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321138236 430870 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this quote
< 1321138238 631524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138247 510402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: have I mentioned that @ doesn't have that problem?
< 1321138257 75515 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not in programs, obviously
< 1321138259 701675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does @ have ANY problems
< 1321138272 546091 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when typing programs; how does the parser reify the keystrokes/mousestrokes into a parsetree?
< 1321138284 516514 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Its problem is that there is no such things, as far as I can tell
< 1321138288 76798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ doesn't have programs! but ok, I'll dignify your EVIL QUESTION with a response
< 1321138294 643257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: excellently. next question!
< 1321138303 299260 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, functions
< 1321138305 828734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/af6a8d1f2673 ;; hmm, why isn't this working?
< 1321138308 367021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138310 365833 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :715)  Linux is like the most quirky of all Forths, it has its own OS
< 1321138311 137213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many space
< 1321138314 907910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: not all values are functions!
< 1321138345 127407 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right; but I was thinking about writing functions in particular in my question
< 1321138347 645117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: admittedly, as @ has no globals, most /useful/ "top-level" values are
< 1321138357 587228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I doubt you mean function
< 1321138361 233462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean program-analogue
< 1321138369 542294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, a list of all prime numbers would count
< 1321138374 364555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's analoguous to a program printing every prime number
< 1321138378 250949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a function
< 1321138390 238193 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log How did you work out where I live?
< 1321138412 903018 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm
< 1321138415 566966 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-12.txt:22:53:10:  `log How did you work out where I live?
< 1321138424 293981 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log where I live?
< 1321138427 86909 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, a lazy list that did the computation wouldn't be counted as a function because it didn't have a function type, for instance?
< 1321138429 759898 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-12-28.txt:22:20:17:  where I live there's a band called fokoffpolisikar (at least I think that's how it's spelled)
< 1321138442 133908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes (it doesn't "do" the computation, it just /is/ the result)
< 1321138444 678440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: s/?/\?/
< 1321138449 755736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: OTOH, the reason most top-level @ values are functions is because they have to take all the modules they want as parameters
< 1321138458 445549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are no globals
< 1321138472 384681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't... /strictly/ true
< 1321138475 198676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's almost true
< 1321138476 953626 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wouldn't it make more sense for them to take a function that resolved hashes into modules as an argument?
< 1321138489 927731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wow! why would you give every program root permissions?
< 1321138522 505521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: for a start, hashes aren't actually integral to @'s core model any more (thankfully); for a second, that breaks the object-capability model, because it's a reference-forging tool
< 1321138529 402848 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it wouldn't necessarily give them modules they didn't deserve
< 1321138530 510036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd tie functionality to implementations, not APIs...
< 1321138533 913069 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it supposed to be anything similar to a Haskell program?
< 1321138537 719224 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm, OK
< 1321138539 103415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sort of, yes
< 1321138542 227365 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed APIs would have hashes too
< 1321138554 121194 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could refer to them uniquely
< 1321138558 934752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: they do; an API is identified by a module name, a hash, and a type signature
< 1321138578 328122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's identified by a hash of a name and a type signature
< 1321138616 459279 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321138618 752631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: anyway, I have certain requirements of my keypress-reifier, but no concrete specification; it's something I'll have to tweak as I use it
< 1321138627 605907 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321138636 118284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: for instance, the user must not constantly be bugged with the nested hierarchy; navigation should be /largely/ linear
< 1321138646 739944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: reason: try navigating a heavily-nested TeXmacs expression
< 1321138647 186323 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321138651 606209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's super annoying
< 1321138670 19103 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that one possible method of navigating should be the one that would be used if it was a flat file using ( and )
< 1321138672 654087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: also: not every keypress has to leave the program in a valid state -- semantically /or/ syntactically -- but it should try
< 1321138677 440191 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321138682 779525 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. backwards and forwards in depth-first traversal order
< 1321138687 759797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, "if" should probably pregenerate the then/else keywords with appropriate indentation, and place a hole there
< 1321138691 557098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not fill the hole in
< 1321138705 388487 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just like many Java IDEs do already
< 1321138731 205995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes (except they just leave blank space rather than a hole)
< 1321138740 187098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about holes are, you can ask the computer: what type is expected here?
< 1321138750 672817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can hoogle-equivalent for functions that could help you get to that type
< 1321138751 564278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1321138767 399620 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember something leaving -shaped holes, but I can't remember what it was
< 1321138801 722542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, the requirements are basically "not more painful than editing plain text", "largely linear navigation rather than focusing too much on the hierarchy", "as semantics-retaining as possible under incremental development", "not freaking annoying"
< 1321138802 75101 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could make it always correct by it leaving function arguments as the default hole-filler, but I'm not convinced that's a good idea
< 1321138836 92950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: a nice thing about a proper AST type and holes and the like is that they make a lot of refactorings formal
< 1321138842 65591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than risky textual manipulation
< 1321138847 994219 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321138848 847954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's semantic /meaning/ to extracting out a hole as a parameter
< 1321138861 950317 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my PhD is arguably on this subject
< 1321138887 271070 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(type systems are good for refactoring, compiling is just really an extreme sort of refactoring, type systems are a good way to do this, this applies to hardware too)
< 1321138899 946188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling is the kind of refactoring that makes your code worse :)
< 1321138917 963436 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a witty joke
< 1321138933 355968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321138940 633049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm kind of low on ideas as to the low-levelish language underpinning @lang that things like the GC are written in
< 1321138998 610677 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't the GC be built into the @lang interp?
< 1321139001 532720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it has to map to modern exposed assembly as closely as possible while being completely safe...
< 1321139005 929752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no interp, compiler
< 1321139007 370175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of the RTS
< 1321139011 248010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is the RTS written in?
< 1321139014 168969 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1321139019 465567 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming there was some sort of VM involved
< 1321139022 354574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no point writing it in assembly, I'd have to rewrite the GC for every platform, which is pointless
< 1321139027 645703 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be written in something entirely different
< 1321139031 772652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well, VM, sufficiently heavy RTS, what's the difference
< 1321139044 557788 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps LLVM would be a practical example
< 1321139045 252654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, yeah, my intent is to minimise platform-specific code
< 1321139047 280081 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a minimal Forth
< 1321139053 129657 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a minimal C
< 1321139056 8130 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead
< 1321139058 854438 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with you and forth
< 1321139059 347754 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does what you want moderately accurately and isn't completely awful
< 1321139064 776021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't an option
< 1321139071 788078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: unfortunately, no; LLVM isn't safe
< 1321139072 733519 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"c but better"
< 1321139077 908739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write an LLVM program that segfaults
< 1321139078 921632 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth code is the same as machine code
< 1321139082 597523 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only better
< 1321139084 499127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(adding runtime checks to every instruction is not acceptable)
< 1321139087 294299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickDirtyOS: better and slower
< 1321139094 262562 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not slower
< 1321139096 941779 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its native
< 1321139099 221495 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1321139102 104090 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh.
< 1321139111 127084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a safe program similar to LLVM
< 1321139113 264725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course.
< 1321139138 353139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, possibly, similar to Haskell too
< 1321139150 462847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321139155 750089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: anyway, "applying the object-capability model to x86-64" sounds like a parody Ph.D. title
< 1321139159 968054 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this language would necessarily have no access controls; if it's got enough perms to do GCing, it's got enough perms to do anything
< 1321139167 862586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably applies to most papers that could come out of @...
< 1321139187 251569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no: it only has the perms to do GC if it's passed the heap
< 1321139200 567410 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly also isn't a dead-end, you can translate it just as well as Forth code.
< 1321139205 574247 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it's something more like NaCl
< 1321139206 192241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: consider a very low-level section of, e.g. a graphics card driver
< 1321139211 130578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs to have precise control over instructions
< 1321139215 76174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only needs a certain segment of RAM
< 1321139216 205621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some IO ports
< 1321139218 790943 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is x86 machinecode plus a proof that it doesn't do anything nasty
< 1321139220 843860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and local memory/registers
< 1321139228 82765 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the proof is checked before the program is run)
< 1321139233 729113 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1321139236 106307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason to let it trample on anything else at all
< 1321139237 267192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: .
< 1321139242 952288 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Phantom__Hoover CakeProphet update
< 1321139255 437851 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1321139264 999937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :update to the .
< 1321139268 29467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now 90% more .y
< 1321139271 9455 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love Phantom__Hoover CakeProphet updates
< 1321139275 552707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. updates too
< 1321139278 811488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK that is one idea. If you can have such a proof combined with a program.
< 1321139279 720239 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think something NaCl-style is your best bet there, then
< 1321139285 804246 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ify ou can figure out how to make that work.
< 1321139299 133300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yep; that's quite a difficult area of research, though
< 1321139304 393546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :formal verification is hard enough of high-level languages
< 1321139307 729969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'd rather make it safe-by-design, I think
< 1321139316 939218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: for instance, there's no reason you should be able to pass a literal to "mov"
< 1321139321 386756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly with protected mode; it might not work as well with real mode
< 1321139331 874486 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doesn't mov take an address as its target argument anyway?
< 1321139341 950785 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, you mean even writing to a fixed address is bad
< 1321139348 322851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yep, but there's no reason you should be able to specify an arbitrary one
< 1321139350 58931 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't given the capability for that address
< 1321139352 739454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think x86 does have bound checking instructions
< 1321139360 712134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: there's also no reason you should be able to cast int -> ptr, too, ofc
< 1321139361 35064 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you just meant you didn't want people to modify literals
< 1321139371 617867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so some kind of type system is necessar
< 1321139371 982882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1321139379 494583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make it an infinite-register design
< 1321139385 899611 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting that language right is the really hard step
< 1321139386 15696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but allow pinning virtual registers to hardware registers
< 1321139387 728889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you need that
< 1321139400 359480 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a single security bug in it will cause the entire system to be insecure
< 1321139407 485955 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no other layers of defence
< 1321139407 613912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I've occasionally thought to just abandon the low-level language, write the GC unportably, and hope that no drivers need to do anything so low-level
< 1321139412 113789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't seem like the right thing to do
< 1321139419 591577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the low level language doesn't clutter @'s design itself
< 1321139420 969493 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321139426 420315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an @ graph reduction machine, you can skip it entirely
< 1321139428 159117 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321139435 185584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just compile and run @lang code directly
< 1321139448 341685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, I'd disagree that there aren't other layers of defence
< 1321139453 645868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: here's one: guessing addresses is pretty hard!
< 1321139461 507693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want an @ graph reduction machine
< 1321139474 593061 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss
< 1321139480 555254 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't need to guess, just try them systematically until you find a usable one
< 1321139485 851388 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GRASP machine would be awesome
< 1321139496 530341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: that takes a very long time
< 1321139502 631563 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? still a security bug
< 1321139507 498019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh, definitely
< 1321139521 609032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: anyway, it is not that bad.
< 1321139522 488359 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only takes a few seconds to fill memory on a modern computer, right, if all you're trying to do is fill memory with a particular pattern?
< 1321139523 560082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I mean,
< 1321139526 872057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : as a single security bug in it will cause the entire system to be insecure   with no other layers of defence
< 1321139529 698830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321139537 972435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: in Windows, all you need is a single security bug in ANY DRIVER AT ALL
< 1321139554 744102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto in Linux
< 1321139555 73508 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need the perms to communicate with the driver, don't you?
< 1321139570 368320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: usually, drivers read from unprivileged data, or they're not so useful...
< 1321139597 659529 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but unprivileged users can't talk to drivers
< 1321139597 800867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphics driver runs in the kernel, X runs as root, but the user runs programs as themselves, and that data makes its way to the graphics driver
< 1321139598 537407 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always; things like keyboard/mouse drivers don't need to do any reading from processes on the system, just writing
< 1321139603 843204 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321139607 800034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant:  the graphics driver runs in the kernel, X runs as root, but the user runs programs as themselves, and that data makes its way to the graphics driver
< 1321139619 45873 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure
< 1321139620 52674 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but things like X filter the data first
< 1321139623 931366 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But that's not necessarily exploitable
< 1321139626 54978 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because of what he said
< 1321139644 406644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: So? I could have responded with a bunch of ways in which @ reduces the likelihood of an exploit
< 1321139663 831067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, @ has many fewer exploitable vectors than a typical modern system
< 1321139665 200410 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321139900 32547 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written some things relating to another plan of computer I have; many of the security features are implemented in hardware. It just depend on the way of connecting the memory. And then have a flipflop to enter and exit privilege mode, and a few jumpers to override these things.
< 1321139926 317780 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1321139928 770634 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what age(s) did u met the esoteric languages ( u could count BF and Forth as well as some LISPs maybe )
< 1321139950 485763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 or so
< 1321139963 253500 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I don't remember
< 1321139968 816147 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11? u had an Atari ?
< 1321139977 750727 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember.  Probably 10 or 11 or so.
< 1321139991 239030 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it Forth or BF ?
< 1321140001 427706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it was neither
< 1321140005 717707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was probably bf, but bf never interested me)
< 1321140005 763104 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if
< 1321140009 620872 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first esolangs I came across were INTERCAL and Malbolge
< 1321140025 800285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came across INTERCAL first as well, but never really learned it
< 1321140026 681203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably befunge and underload got me into esolangs?
< 1321140027 40822 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I found the esolang community searching for info about INTERCAL
< 1321140029 730663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked malbolge too
< 1321140031 984386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unlambda
< 1321140043 317096 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hardly anyone's actually learned INTERCAL, I think, which is a pity
< 1321140053 221333 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the way the control flow works in modern INTERCAL, it's a thing of beauty
< 1321140071 293849 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its expressions are still pretty nasty, though; reverse assignments make them so much better, but no compiler handles them correctly yet
< 1321140078 870609 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only came to BF a year or less after bumpin into Forth.
< 1321140099 86121 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a native x86 compiler, of course
< 1321140106 945516 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very basic compiler
< 1321140115 300484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found Brainfuck at first. But I did learn INTERCAL, too. Including both the old and new INTERCAL, and even wrote some suggestions of new INTERCAL
< 1321140116 750678 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for both)
< 1321140129 350421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo TRANS - ACT - IONAL
< 1321140131 259190 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRANS - ACT - IONAL
< 1321140142 325670 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321140142 387087 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it was in 2007 I think
< 1321140158 521370 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007, and I was 33
< 1321140162 335525 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 32.
< 1321140168 888031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Forth as well; and I have added support for Forth codes into MegaZeux.
< 1321140257 957967 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was it in ur 20s or 30s ?
< 1321140259 419385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321140263 346814 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 40s ?
< 1321140300 500297 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can Machine Code be called an esoteric language btw ?!
< 1321140319 338938 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric machine code
< 1321140321 341762 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really
< 1321140321 479165 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I also came to meet it at 10 or 11
< 1321140325 729844 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a weird encoding for asm
< 1321140333 793239 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it esoteric asm
< 1321140336 89470 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its tough.
< 1321140355 61955 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z80 was similar, but not as simple as 8080
< 1321140355 942455 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tough?" what does that mean and how does it make it esoteric
< 1321140400 100038 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if BF was easy (as some, including my translator make it)
< 1321140409 528223 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you consider it esoteric ?
< 1321140419 449063 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it wasn't mainstream ?
< 1321140556 331125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321140574 481151 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321140574 875821 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321140574 921553 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321140585 504797 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric doesn't mean difficult, does it?
< 1321140599 101787 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep that question for Chuck Moore
< 1321140605 974715 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he comes in here at times
< 1321140609 743511 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't he ?
< 1321140611 109959 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!
< 1321140611 247755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ v
< 1321140648 550396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321140674 68712 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that was a tough question .. :-[
< 1321140751 431951 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think machine code can be called esoteric
< 1321140752 87102 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi, Gregor, can I have some money?
< 1321140769 583067 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think odds are for me.
< 1321140778 451037 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bets?
< 1321140897 812877 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of machine code are you calling esoteric
< 1321140911 688451 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you consider Redcode an esolang?
< 1321140925 723182 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean machine code in general, then it's not esoteric at all
< 1321140932 900669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm... probably no, but it has quite a few esoteric features
< 1321140934 788783 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not mainstream (Redcode)
< 1321140938 480637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: and it probably counts as esoteric programming
< 1321140942 121687 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm conflicted on it myself
< 1321140959 351143 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yes based on use, but no based on features
< 1321140959 517746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I think it's perfectly possible to have a language where all coding in it is esoprogramming but the language isn't esoteric itself
< 1321140964 501197 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the lack of library support
< 1321140975 223415 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Z80 is very mainstream (my bad luck?)
< 1321140977 634428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, it has some weird stuff
< 1321140982 526106 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, perhaps; but a language designed for that /would/ be an esolang, I think, and thus fail at its goal
< 1321140988 53701 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to happen accidentally
< 1321140990 117390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickDirtyOS: mainstreamness is not evry relevant to esolang status
< 1321141017 845546 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would vote for machine code for esolang
< 1321141039 3029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine code isn't a single language
< 1321141040 849485 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember one machine code / assembly that is an esolang
< 1321141056 665541 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321141076 593460 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several machine code esolangs, yes.
< 1321141080 47825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: anyway, I'm kind of thinking that the low level @ language's type system would inevitably end up becoming as complicated as @lang's
< 1321141084 312445 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: Mnemonics
< 1321141086 537359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so why not just reuse it?
< 1321141098 400694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the Checkout esolang; and I would like a (FOSS) implementation of it.
< 1321141105 272404 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mnemonics
< 1321141112 382753 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: mnemonics
< 1321141117 784426 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mnemonics
< 1321141121 786723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :menomincs
< 1321141142 245115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: in fact, there's no reason the low level language couldn't just be part of @lang itself
< 1321141172 704819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (note: you could make /Python/ part of @lang, by just defining an AST for it and an interpreter function; you could include it in code just like any other program)
< 1321141175 632319 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it would end up cluttering up @lang horribley
< 1321141177 157924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/program/program element/
< 1321141180 154019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: see above
< 1321141183 264128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321141184 381394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be separate, but use the same type system
< 1321141194 489189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it would be restricted, you wouldn't have to implement all of @lang
< 1321141195 797414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's a lie
< 1321141200 522603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could still use all of @lang in the type system
< 1321141207 642363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not actually any easier to implement at all
< 1321141209 434636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehhhh
< 1321141213 271367 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it require features outside of @lang
< 1321141214 74258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives the runtime properties i want
< 1321141215 572543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yay
< 1321141240 807120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: actually there's a slight issue: how can you compile a dependently-typed language down to a language which shares its type system, without having the compilation of the latter depend on the former?
< 1321141255 583564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can solve the infinite regress simply in the standard bootstrapping manner, but am not sure exactly how
< 1321141292 312384 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321141310 129507 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why does the low-level lang need dependent typing?
< 1321141318 726739 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XSL S AND K IS DOING SOMETHING!
< 1321141319 813346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: anyway, I'm kind of thinking that the low level @ language's type system would inevitably end up becoming as complicated as @lang's
< 1321141321 391952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: so why not just reuse it?
< 1321141322 652728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: in fact, there's no reason the low level language couldn't just be part of @lang itself
< 1321141328 218834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: why invent two type systems?
< 1321141336 252586 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1321141342 222255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: for instance, unless the low level language uses @lang's type system, it can't use modules at all
< 1321141345 705990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... problematic
< 1321141346 176198 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm going home, as I@m now too tired to communichaterently
< 1321141350 595677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :communichaterently
< 1321141353 769986 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earlier today, I had a thought about @
< 1321141361 505109 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like a space elevator
< 1321141370 592982 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321141375 728455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: is it like the bf joust warrior space_elevator?
< 1321141383 717148 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I know
< 1321141409 252864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, @ will do something similar to things that already exist, but in a completely different, better way
< 1321141412 823954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321141417 154887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never be built? :)
< 1321141420 763071 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactyl
< 1321141427 618566 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/yl/ly/
< 1321141461 609499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what has to be implemented in the low level language
< 1321141471 720278 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware thingies?
< 1321141486 264608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :post-platform-initialisation bootup, the allocator, gc, storage manager (= persistence stuff)
< 1321141498 685503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts of the scheduler (parts will have to be platform specific)
< 1321141514 167222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really low-level driver parts like the /implementation/ of the higher-level interfaces to things like IO ports and memory sections
< 1321141515 488785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321141518 778432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will @ work on today's computers?
< 1321141526 249365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321141529 241722 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool
< 1321141554 369441 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it should somehow use Checkout on graphics cards. :D
< 1321141558 967187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : really low-level driver parts like the /implementation/ of the higher-level interfaces to things like IO ports and memory sections
< 1321141564 439024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, a lot of this might have to be trusted platform-specific code
< 1321141568 377877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm
< 1321141587 664927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I couldn't write the entire scheduler in the low-level language, and just have modules for each platform that use something like inline asm
< 1321141600 514183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would require the maximum trust level, ofc
< 1321141603 114620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's okay for a scheduler
< 1321141609 725798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that would be difficult :p
< 1321141701 50869 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, has any code been written for @? At all?
< 1321141714 431610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i've worked on @-related code, yes
< 1321142015 945134 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've got XSL S and K to run itself recursively
< 1321142021 230452 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just haven't yet got it to /stop/
< 1321142054 677397 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321142168 673984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I would like to have some GPU with something like Checkout as its native code
< 1321142191 595377 :QuickDirtyOS!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321142292 230587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am wondering if it's even possible to use a fibonacci heap as a homoiconic programming language structure.
< 1321142331 988613 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye quickdirtyos
< 1321142343 843479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think forest is probably a better name for the actual structure that it will end up being.
< 1321142383 755524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a fibonacci heap is just a kind of forest. if I'm not using it as a heap and instead computing programs then it's not really much of a heap.
< 1321142396 853156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless I give nodes priorities.
< 1321142401 575235 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds really boring.
< 1321142724 330795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm
< 1321142728 908674 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321142736 538822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need a sane evaluation method
< 1321142753 680123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well
< 1321142756 854013 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/a/ evaluation order
< 1321142760 956525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily a sane one.
< 1321142812 342067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/an/
< 1321142814 766111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you illiterate fuck :(
< 1321142823 926406 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321142919 285234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oops. oh well, at least I'm not a condescending shitfingered cunt. :D :D :D
< 1321143008 560222 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Gap Yah was just last year?
< 1321143212 164692 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitfingered?
< 1321143362 359051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321143381 985683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I get tired of the usual insult.
< 1321143393 319463 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitfingered cunt has very evocative imagery.
< 1321143407 365291 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can be interpreted multiple ways!
< 1321143436 1000 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them particularly pleasant.
< 1321143849 544682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah.
< 1321143937 392404 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1321143939 9530 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321143944 567277 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagine you have a (possinly infinite) graph that is your program expression.
< 1321143995 10684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine that instead of reducing things "bottom to top" you reduce them in whatever direction you like (i.e. you can non-strictly evaluate in multiple directions)
< 1321144004 499181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make any sense at all? :P
< 1321144140 625498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out that in GHCi, if you want to assign an IO result to a variable, you should first enter the IO expression at the prompt and then use:   let x = it   if you want the variable to be called x
< 1321144218 189943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.DVI now will find ligature/kerning:
< 1321144232 488674 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :findLK (charLigKern $ characters tenrm !! 102) 105 = Just (Ligature {lkChar = 105, ligChar = 12, ligCode = 0})
< 1321144244 897078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :findLK (charLigKern $ characters tenrm !! 65) 86 = Just (Kerning {lkChar = 86, kernDist = -72819})
< 1321144256 447843 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :findLK (charLigKern $ characters tenrm !! 64) 85 = Nothing
< 1321144288 557837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something like "graph automatons" akin to CA?
< 1321144357 607041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see eodermdrome
< 1321144366 26406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I found out that in GHCi, if you want to assign an IO result to a variable, you should first enter the IO expression at the prompt and then use:   let x = it   if you want the variable to be called x
< 1321144366 944747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not
< 1321144367 969769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x <- ...
< 1321144368 349041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321144389 278236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, that works too
< 1321144396 198124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I didn't know that at first
< 1321144502 731300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bah ais beat me. :P ah well, doesn't mean I can't do it differently.
< 1321144576 72139 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow
< 1321144577 850651 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome.
< 1321144673 921436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I remove interactive bindings?
< 1321144715 510701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::reload? :p
< 1321144726 859876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, I see how I can do it differently.
< 1321144731 202180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I want to remove only some bindings
< 1321144827 732177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can only shadow them.
< 1321144957 554247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficult part will be determining evaluation order.
< 1321145019 819269 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CE34.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321145036 642875 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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< 1321145628 70736 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321145629 81363 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321145794 461283 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea I've got
< 1321145810 557478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the graph nodes are all single digits 0-9
< 1321145879 429384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :each digit performs a different operation, and evaluation order is determined by the priority of the node.
< 1321145908 599076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :each tick, 9's evaluate first, and 0's evaluate last.
< 1321145927 386379 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it kind of works like a CA, except it's a graph..
< 1321146371 529590 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321146518 287252 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurts.
< 1321146553 947255 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to throw together a set of completely incoherent operations
< 1321146559 304909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is essentially what I did with dupdog.
< 1321146562 64391 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321146662 637290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead, I think I'll just take my time working out what each digit + node degree results in.
< 1321146743 361799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example 0s and 1s with degree 1 or 2 remain inert, and would basically represent binary data. however for higher degrees they would do... something else that I haven't figured out.
< 1321146899 549974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll upload some screenshots of Skyrim shortly. Unlike videos or jpeg compressed screenshots (which seems to be the norm from what I seen) these should actually let you judge the graphical quality.
< 1321146908 689574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fraps is really bad for the FPS
< 1321146914 911754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321146994 713950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I notice no stuttering without Fraps running, but with it (I used it for the screenshots since prtsc didn't work in the game for some reason) its FPS display reports 40 FPS and I notice some frame rate drop too.
< 1321147009 383866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's meant to be a less laggy capturing tool
< 1321147014 148183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321147017 236655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, possibly
< 1321147057 916791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I have 33 MB of screenshots as pngs
< 1321147064 183573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, this is just a few files
< 1321147070 938181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 files
< 1321147080 749130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm about to leave shortly, so i'll probably see them tomorrow
< 1321147125 248131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while the screenshots should contain no spoilers, there are some pictures from buildings a fair bit into the game. If you haven't played it, it is just some pretty (or not so pretty) architecture.
< 1321147170 376999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't bother me
< 1321147214 709949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the first one is up at http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/
< 1321147252 393575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, the HUD interface looks kind of amateurish like that, the castle icon thing
< 1321147257 709076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very pretty though
< 1321147265 673075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look at the second
< 1321147270 46876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not so pretty eh?
< 1321147279 785260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i have to go now :( will they still be up tomorrow?
< 1321147282 202936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heh, nice textures
< 1321147293 903285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, designed for console rather than PC
< 1321147297 930298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty obviously
< 1321147311 754206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but sure, they /may/ be there tomorrow
< 1321147320 195980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright
< 1321147321 621863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless I get a cease-and-desist
< 1321147323 509499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1321147390 442405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cease and desist showing off our crappy textures
< 1321147393 476344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, horses and chickens can report you to the authorities in skyrim :P
< 1321147395 160980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1321147399 742794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, if you steal
< 1321147401 439923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321147409 80839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, topic was "bugs"
< 1321147433 65920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah I seen a few understandable and some rather weird bugs
< 1321147436 586127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1321154146 150811 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now is a good time for me to reappear.
< 1321154645 594607 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a ligaturing program to increment an arbitrary sized number?
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< 1321159915 983368 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
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< 1321161689 877954 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321162002 296912 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6b1b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321162859 523773 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone elsewhere mentioned this thing
< 1321162860 370294 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :const void * const ((*foo)(const float *,int *(*)(float *,int,int),void())[5]);
< 1321162866 131769 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what that does
< 1321163034 182754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: It seems to be a C code for a function type?
< 1321163049 955510 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, I think
< 1321163076 267603 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of context it is difficult to understand what its purpose is.
< 1321163133 81448 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Someone posted it in another channel and said that if anyone figured it out they'd get 255 internet cookies
< 1321163154 637317 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentioend that he posted it in another channel
< 1321163275 548371 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like a function pointer no?
< 1321163326 740544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes I think so
< 1321163338 414826 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer to function that returns a constant pointer to constant data or something like that
< 1321163519 571615 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, hmm, no
< 1321164990 692254 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Radiateur
< 1321165962 669265 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1321167186 585312 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's C++, not C.
< 1321167370 236901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an array of five function pointers. Each points to a function returning a pointer which is mega-super-duper-constant (can't change it, can't change thru it). The functions take a constant float pointer/array, a function (float *,int,int)->int *, and whatever a "void()" is (that one stumps me ... generic function pointer maybe?)
< 1321167387 723287 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohwait
< 1321167406 633036 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that return type "const void *const" in fact indicates that it's constant and also always returns the same value for the same inputs.
< 1321167522 205267 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not sure about void() though.
< 1321167662 896862 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it has something to do with variadic arguments ...
< 1321167742 183253 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, can't figure out what void() means and it's not searchable online :P
< 1321168263 599521 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is it can't just be void, you can't have void as a parameter >_>
< 1321168481 704289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321172486 258652 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: Do you know the "declarations use the same syntax as expressions" trick for reading C declarations?
< 1321172678 311814 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321172711 911342 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I have a feeling you just told me it
< 1321172932 576483 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|chromcrash: The trick is basically "declarations use the same syntax as expressions".
< 1321172952 62876 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, "int x;" declares x as an integer; "int *x;" declares *x as an integer.
< 1321173070 28269 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a function blah that takes two doubles and returns a pointer to a double, then "*(*blah)(5.0,3.0)" is a double; therefore "double *(*blah)(double x, double y);" declares that function.
< 1321173174 323252 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an array yak of pointers to functions that take ints and return void and you want to call one, you say "(*yak[1])(8)"; therefore you can declare yak as "void (*yak[5])(int);"
< 1321173178 355729 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on.
< 1321173752 888783 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain const void * const ((*foo)(const float *,int *(*)(float *,int,int),void())[5]);
< 1321173755 882232 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare foo as pointer to function (pointer to const float, pointer to function (pointer to float, int, int) returning pointer to int, function returning void) returning array 5 of const pointer to const void
< 1321174195 697735 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: $ echo 'const void * const ((*foo)(const float *,int *(*)(float *,int,int),void())[5]);' | gcc -std=c99 -pedantic -Wall -Wextra -x c -
< 1321174198 695862 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:23: error: ‘foo’ declared as function returning an array
< 1321174201 211029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:23: warning: type qualifiers ignored on function return type
< 1321174249 293655 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321174293 941605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "error: function cannot return array type 'void const *const [5]'" if you ask clang.
< 1321174331 148314 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why returning arrays is illegal.
< 1321174403 776017 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always put them in a struct, after all.
< 1321174449 859480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You couldn't assign the return value anywhere, for one thing.
< 1321174519 262197 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true. Why isn't that allowed too? :-)
< 1321174527 63401 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That of course just transforms into the question of why array assignment is illegal when array-in-a-struct assignment is just fine, yes.
< 1321174539 195382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hysterical raisins, maybe.
< 1321174584 601249 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raisins tend to be far funnier than they ought to.
< 1321175249 973283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321175632 333769 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-190.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to just say "C arrays suck".
< 1321175709 79169 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321175709 485260 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321175709 530572 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321175775 528395 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321175780 967449 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid connection problems
< 1321175919 504980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321175928 809027 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321175978 125365 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321175982 670600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1321176225 94262 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321176244 169647 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321176501 84733 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321176536 465496 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-12.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321176620 142327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321176762 763805 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321176846 96183 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321176933 406342 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.48.121 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321176936 749142 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.48.121 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321176936 794734 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321177453 570478 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321177931 100481 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321178066 873781 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/NM6TRF8R
< 1321178088 106648 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321178219 259626 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321178242 81929 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321178562 411194 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts on that?
< 1321179127 958784 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-12.elisa.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321180073 107827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321181243 171729 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOT would be a good name for a nonsense language
< 1321181258 832395 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning Phantom_Hoover
< 1321181305 249453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it... the afternoon????
< 1321181322 6252 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in the same time zone as me.
< 1321181322 880951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not; I got up in time today.
< 1321181324 26994 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mornin
< 1321181324 592315 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :g
< 1321182009 532199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/mad87/what_is_d%C3%A9j%C3%A0_vu/
< 1321182023 951323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is possibly the most heavily-pruned AskScience thread I've seen.
< 1321182094 458404 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I only go on reddit when it's linked on the #esoteric channel family?
< 1321182205 450608 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started off that way.
< 1321182513 296164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did you see the native res skyrim screenshots I made?
< 1321182519 514086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321182520 532678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/
< 1321182524 576083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you are interested
< 1321182539 971415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note you have emigrated from the Sporks server.
< 1321182555 807708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that one is the sporks server. Just the domain name changed.
< 1321182566 509723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because network got renamed
< 1321182587 340681 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-03-46-22.png
< 1321182592 440355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks pretty terrible.
< 1321182592 641021 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or do those rocks look just a bit too specular
< 1321182595 850236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes
< 1321182596 356118 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-03-38-38.png
< 1321182605 155851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the game is clearly designed for consoles
< 1321182612 130255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where you don't really see stuff up close
< 1321182625 128298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the TV is further away than a computer monitor
< 1321182645 208283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, I believe it is snow and ice on them, not sure though
< 1321182647 600692 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C4FD.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321182666 14462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, and there is direct sunlight on parts, while other parts are in shadow
< 1321182675 112400 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, eh; we're not exactly the kind of people to start judging a game based on the graphics.
< 1321182683 438875 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no snow nor ice, only direct3d parameters
< 1321182688 474356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321182690 576307 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And textures
< 1321182695 235865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321182704 53064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I prefer the graphics of Witcher 2. Way better
< 1321182710 74211 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And damn, that rock thingy looks specular.
< 1321182723 71885 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some ugly snow, yes.
< 1321182730 6983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321182739 559952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, looks better than oblivion
< 1321182757 32873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it is clearly not up to scratch with high end PC graphics
< 1321182774 449172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR hearing that the system requirements were actually fairly low.
< 1321182775 822524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look too bad from a distance, I guess.
< 1321182794 433215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed. I'm running it on ultra graphics settings
< 1321182794 642879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the shiny rocks are a bit offputting.
< 1321182824 68460 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played Fallout 3, and it also had shiny rocks everywhere
< 1321182826 567599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway I think consoles like xbos 360 has 512 MB RAM or some such
< 1321182827 361216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're supposed to go all "ooh, shiny!", not "yuck, shiny!" on it.
< 1321182831 915290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can just pretend all the rocks in Skyrim are muscovite?
< 1321182833 919386 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shiny dirt and shiny rubble
< 1321182841 762543 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shiny concrete pieces
< 1321182865 835697 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Possibly polishing dirt is a common occupation in the post-apocalyptic era.
< 1321182876 251137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321182882 761173 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be all the lasers
< 1321182886 145529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, obviously, how else are you meant to get all that radiation off?
< 1321182915 179053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I find that the HUD looks fairly bad
< 1321182923 299965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels out of place in the setting
< 1321182958 722349 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, there will soon be a mod for fix each of those things
< 1321182961 122067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd... prefer bits of paper on the screen?
< 1321182961 642901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a pure aesthetic point of view, the HUD and menus of oblivion were better
< 1321182995 592356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well from the point of view of navigating the menus, skyrim is /way/ better than oblivion
< 1321182996 66441 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PixelQuest update
< 1321183008 84297 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there will be a mod to make the menus look exactly like Oblivion's
< 1321183014 849140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I find the font used in skyrim is pretty bad too
< 1321183017 110996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, did you respond to my submission already.
< 1321183023 195850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, probably
< 1321183023 328081 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, getting to it
< 1321183036 614903 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there will be a mod to make females naked
< 1321183049 993715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, and another one to make children killable
< 1321183050 143045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, shush, you're sounding like elliott at his worst.
< 1321183055 649917 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe just got a funny idea
< 1321183077 656821 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321183086 380498 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you sure gamers want to kill them?
< 1321183093 158204 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321183106 100576 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't the funny idea, by the way
< 1321183109 964155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Jafet: other funny thing. When you create your character all the attributes are sliders. Including the gender one. However it only have two positions.
< 1321183116 432486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why make it a full length slider
< 1321183124 197304 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extensibility?
< 1321183128 816966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, yes, because gamers want to kill everything, and the inability to kill a class of things just makes them want to kill them all the more.
< 1321183131 739848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maaaybe
< 1321183140 112977 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The gender-slider's something elliott also complained about.
< 1321183141 666178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Simon and elliott have both poked fun at that.
< 1321183150 283830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and yogscast too
< 1321183157 129800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, snap :P
< 1321183162 280649 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to get Skyrim
< 1321183164 258801 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for a while anyway
< 1321183176 757701 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of worse things gamers might think of doing to children in a video game
< 1321183187 150096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 eur sounds a bit much for a game with only two genders, yes.
< 1321183188 919903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah unless you are a die hard TES fan, you are better off waiting for some of the bugs to get fixed
< 1321183193 271175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it has quite a few bugs
< 1321183225 135470 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, take them to the theatre to see the Nutcracker Suite as a hip-hop interpretive dance?
< 1321183236 379814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like dragons crash landing on a slope. The rag doll physics seem to have problem handling that, resulting in some very odd looking animations.l
< 1321183240 859346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/l$//
< 1321183263 842240 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb's idea was worse than I thought
< 1321183272 993008 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope he doesn't make a mod for that
< 1321183277 790284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321183304 661966 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey guys, the new game by Bethesda Softworks, it has quite a few bugs"
< 1321183313 416489 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you're getting at
< 1321183317 77312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, XD
< 1321183327 126784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but s
< 1321183335 672264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, it is fun to play
< 1321183360 696251 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321183473 348259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway the map screen is an improvement compared to oblivion definitely
< 1321183541 755193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway how can you /not/ think that this font is terrible: http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-05-10-37.png
< 1321183620 991673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and it generally doesn't look as bad when you play it. After all you are generally moving, that tends to help.
< 1321183652 931736 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1321183670 34530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you going to play skyrim?
< 1321183713 147206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321183773 696805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure you said it was a bit expensive above, but that doesn't mean you won't play it. After all it was "launched" on torrents before it was launched officially, so it won't really be hard to get hold of.
< 1321183931 632763 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just wait until they release a cheapo version in a few years. Will see.
< 1321184025 451221 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I did with NWN1 and NWN2.
< 1321184028 978611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.skyrimnexus.com/index.php <-- quite a few mods already. And the official modding SDK has not yet been released even...
< 1321184046 301593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I got NWN2 with a graphics card, actually.
< 1321184061 969893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321184321 233044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundling games with graphics cards is a funny thing. I got that "G-Police" game with... either the Voodoo2 or some Matrox card.
< 1321184487 505036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never even heard of that game
< 1321184496 454788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of game was it?
< 1321184497 214458 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shooting thing.
< 1321184498 290622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321184500 182761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321184512 10857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see logs before you pinged out
< 1321184517 68659 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't play-play it, but it was impressively threedee for 1997.
< 1321184527 683716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, play-play?
< 1321184534 895677 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously play.
< 1321184539 445637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The game made use of cutting edge technology such as force–feedback joysticks, 3D sound and Direct3D Hardware Acceleration and was largely well-received. Critics noted that the game's graphics were some of the most technically impressive of the time."
< 1321184539 553314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321184552 169346 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The gameplay  involves piloting VTOL aircraft resembling helicopters, engaging in combat with enemies and protecting allies."
< 1321184564 240534 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really my sort of thing, but it looked impressive.
< 1321184587 148032 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, away-away; it's this "father's day" thing today at least in Finland.
< 1321184588 36506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1321184594 667330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321184600 906937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you are going to your father?
< 1321184608 478873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or are you a father?
< 1321184614 511206 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former.
< 1321184620 371761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321184623 839781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free food, basically. :p
< 1321184643 828997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321184673 472290 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We "did" my wife's father yesterday; so free dinners for the whole weekend, even.
< 1321184691 277117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeew.
< 1321184709 719101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?
< 1321184719 713889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway those quotes looks strange
< 1321184724 620642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : We "did" my wife's father yesterday;
< 1321184731 699331 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that sort of "do".
< 1321184732 501165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh right
< 1321184743 652491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the quotes I would never had noticed the issue
< 1321184770 650912 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a bus to catch. ->
< 1321184781 946560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, anyway how can you /not/ think that this font is terrible: http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/TESV%202011-11-13%2001-05-10-37.png
< 1321184783 501990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well?
< 1321184818 713211 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of food, breakfast time
< 1321184823 435572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not /terrible/, it's just not curly and serifed enough to fit well with a fantasy setting.
< 1321184844 704767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Exactly. It is terrible in the context.
< 1321184848 40843 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb|Not-Here
< 1321184853 599971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would work fine in other places, sure
< 1321184873 278505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, eh; it's a bit incongruous, but if you can't see beyond the font...
< 1321184887 788418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, then I'm an elliott clone?
< 1321184915 999126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure, I can play the game. It isn't a game blocking "bug" for me. It just annoys me.
< 1321185055 146394 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dYf0IfDz5Y&t=1m3s
< 1321185059 879710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those moons....
< 1321185105 167616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My inner physicist is screaming, of course.
< 1321185184 89651 :Taneb|Not-Here!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321185413 245753 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321185683 84203 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
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< 1321186340 916526 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321186547 381170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1321186547 584730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1321186553 415850 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good
< 1321186811 245208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I hope that video is actually either a minecraft mod or a skyrim mod. I don't think so however :(
< 1321187612 903939 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1321187613 121629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1321187624 723348 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, my IRC connection seems fine
< 1321187793 982600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321187818 519406 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321187979 804214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/VfBeP.png
< 1321188076 246839 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321188101 774601 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321188248 619976 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is S and K combinatory logic still turing-complete if it's restricted to balanced binary trees?
< 1321188277 618159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1321188287 896076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pad out with ``skks as required.
< 1321188314 407053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1321188316 648126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's (``skk), plural s, of course.
< 1321188322 354883 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not actually need to know that at all
< 1321188422 928962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a bit more complicated than that, since that only lets you add two extra levels, but I think you can pad to an odd number too.
< 1321188472 632336 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kj;oahgua;ewighage
< 1321188484 391076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scan.co.uk wiped my basket.
< 1321188485 794907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh.
< 1321189268 138525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what were you buying?
< 1321189401 304540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321189823 193212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer bits.
< 1321190289 469800 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190387 343609 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might learn Lisp
< 1321190411 346711 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere at the end of my list of languages to learn
< 1321190565 528511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah
< 1321190591 285413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so soon you will be able to play all the games from that humble bundle that you complained you couldn't play
< 1321190606 622345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I really recommend trying out Trine. It is fun and it looks good
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< 1321190893 560071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190893 560147 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190893 560218 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190893 560289 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190893 560361 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190893 560431 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190897 324119 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric
< 1321190898 305048 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321190898 350292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321191040 831694 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321191410 861211 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A memory efficient SKI interpreter would try to find all the ``k's and all the `i's before doing ```s's
< 1321191432 476584 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^Statement of opinion
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< 1321192250 88344 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!
< 1321192250 901068 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, what was best for the future programme is essential for us to move ahead in the united kingdom divided over a well-known rock in the southern part of europe.
< 1321192256 621173 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321192257 26832 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321192279 833994 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora
< 1321192280 286772 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
< 1321192283 294849 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1321192283 910618 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: as soon as possible after the next substantial change occurs in the manner specified in the registrar's report. this rule, including the riff-raff; and the
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< 1321192651 765156 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
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< 1321194360 321457 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb
< 1321194679 253375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1321194686 250003 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :94)  and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source   whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain   it's all falling into place
< 1321194690 444728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, fungot responds faster.
< 1321194690 626286 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i) the amendment index when the motion. c) auction currency is the registrar shall, as described in other rules,
< 1321194700 692858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that INTERCAL style?
< 1321194702 750262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321194702 897654 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321194731 133390 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping
< 1321194731 385876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1321194744 232700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it looks pretty agorish to me
< 1321194745 771912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot, btw
< 1321194746 28065 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if such a transfer must additionally document every change made to perform an action, or rule-- or other problem, a gambler holds or has exactly one
< 1321195302 402212 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1321195709 960806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know of any languages similar to Eodermdrome?
< 1321195722 860048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for insiration on graph-rewriting languages.
< 1321195724 109215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kolmogorov machines operate on similar principles.
< 1321195762 493543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there's one other, which is similar but more complex, based on Kolmogorov machines
< 1321195769 460131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget who wrote it, but it's on the wiki somewhere
< 1321195809 925621 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I have in mind something more like a CA than a rewriting machine.
< 1321195822 146576 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of specifying rewrite rules in the program you specify the initial shape of the graph
< 1321195839 601800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the relationships between states in the graphs cause the graph to change every turn.
< 1321196462 496145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's similar to the other language, except it has fixed rewrite rules and a program is the initial state, rather than having a fixed initial state and a program is the rewrite rules?
< 1321196499 710646 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321196514 677116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't know if they'll end up being exactly like rewrite rules.
< 1321196554 458418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :te states are all going to be 0-9, and I was going to have higher numbers take priority over lower numbers perhaps.
< 1321196579 94242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 9-rules activate before 8-rules before ...
< 1321196637 108464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Ordered computerons.
< 1321196637 304551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321196823 692901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321196994 901167 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1321198173 437033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes SOON THEY WILL REVOLUTIONARIZE COMPYUTING
< 1321198272 993152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes unlike eodermwekjiwrdrome there can be more than one node with the same state.
< 1321198291 790939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as how the node will behave can depend on its degree.
< 1321198627 506004 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-223-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1321199797 178490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, eodermwekjiwrdrome?
< 1321199815 368104 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321199836 887380 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome
< 1321199853 713147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that is Eodermdrome, not eodermwekjiwrdrome...
< 1321199931 533785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooohhhhhhhh
< 1321199934 906187 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. -_-
< 1321200941 650898 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :eodermwekjiwrdrome was a better name :(
< 1321201026 678260 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1321201686 128469 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
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< 1321202129 668273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1321202130 50611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321202132 545393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Excela&diff=25170&oldid=13100
< 1321202137 204532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is this vandalism, or..?
< 1321202144 284424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes
< 1321202150 691474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see last line
< 1321202280 552148 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321202444 422352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe pills? yesssss
< 1321203136 56617 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1321203415 10953 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: done
< 1321203588 671780 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I want to try these CRAAAZY patches.
< 1321203608 752272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: feels good, man.
< 1321203622 199438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You mean Transactional HackEgo? :P
< 1321203636 157189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have nooooo idea how much time I spent working out the commit logic.
< 1321203695 913503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mostly blame BitBucket's diff for not realising that I rewrote tr_60.cmd :P
< 1321203808 466901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THEY'RE PRETTY CRAZY REGARDLESS
< 1321203828 431021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pfft, lib/server is the only even vaguely crazy part
< 1321203866 208867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr_60.cmd is a simple script that forwards messages to a server, lib/{fetch,revert} is just a moving of code, and lib/sandbox is a glorified UMLBox wrapper :P
< 1321203881 312552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If 25 lines can be called glorification.)
< 1321203884 498128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     '-R3128:127.0.0.1a:3128',
< 1321203887 330923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is that "a" meant to be there?
< 1321203894 998609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol no
< 1321203927 467072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fix't
< 1321203930 645030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321204202 808101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lib/server needs to already have IRC_SOCK set? >_<
< 1321204220 302599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well... it could receive the IRC socket location as a first message?
< 1321204225 700338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could just make a FIFO, man :P
< 1321204247 443648 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIFO's had problems, sockets are coolerer.
< 1321204251 743063 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot is what sets IRC_SOCK though.
< 1321204257 174832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the runner.
< 1321204292 54048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well... you could just make socat start another script rather than the bot directly.
< 1321204305 127374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That script would do IRC_SOCK=/dev/stdin lib/server & bot
< 1321204314 519928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tweak the server if you'd prefer that though :P
< 1321204331 750265 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweak the server >_<
< 1321204349 154222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay; how (i.e. how would you like it to get a hold of the IRC socket)
< 1321204408 996564 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I frankly don't understand WHY it needs the IRC_SOCKET, but if it does, it should be sent with {a,the} command{,s}.
< 1321204430 774141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...because it sends the output of commands back to the user...?
< 1321204441 373949 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, server does that now?
< 1321204447 325133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, server handles the running
< 1321204453 253939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the alternative is complicated IPC shit in tr_60.cmd
< 1321204472 414469 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowonder :P
< 1321204476 671646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll send it with the commands, then
< 1321204494 895144 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, otherwise you have a problem with when it generates the first v the second.
< 1321204511 594949 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't want to modify multibot for this too X-P
< 1321204518 422614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm guaranteed to always get the same socket for a server run, right, though? i.e. so I can still use a global? :P
< 1321204534 682071 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1321204558 926336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, I don't see how you can avoid modifying multibot, because SERVER_SOCK... oh, you can just set it at the start of the script and it'll propagate.
< 1321204560 658427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER MIND :P
< 1321204562 101744 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321204619 767827 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321204652 360687 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321204674 191471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Updated pull request and pull request's instructions :P
< 1321204702 58166 :HackBotLoony!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321204704 817640 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NameError: name 'sock' is not defined"
< 1321204715 461724 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :  File "multibot_cmds/lib/server", line 144, in 
< 1321204723 44222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good! That's good! That's a simple bug.
< 1321204724 674794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fix that :P
< 1321204732 59780 :HackBotLoony!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321204735 268761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    sock, _ = sock.accept()
< 1321204754 62618 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N.B. if you were using Haskell that would never have happened)
< 1321204754 595412 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PS: I think we all agreed that I need more bots on here, yes?)
< 1321204771 614720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I asked Gregor if I could use Haskell
< 1321204774 572222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said no, about three times
< 1321204777 374811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now he is paying the price
< 1321204778 678630 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know
< 1321204785 194168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pushed (I won't bother updating the pull request until this works :P)
< 1321204786 240024 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm paying the price?
< 1321204789 803887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I paying any price?
< 1321204791 795170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pull from my repo :P
< 1321204796 336642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're paying the price... of PAIN.
< 1321204803 833148 :HackBotLoony!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321204807 617711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi
< 1321204809 420686 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321204809 612350 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, don't use ` while HackBotLoony is on I guess X-D
< 1321204809 657786 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321204820 814362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what's its prefix
< 1321204827 679595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, is that its prefix
< 1321204830 643183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321204837 528520 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is it's prefix.
< 1321204841 540687 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just shared with HackEgo :P
< 1321204853 39324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321204853 950062 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321204858 484152 :HackBotLoony!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321204859 887232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, not even help works P:
< 1321204860 853444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321205080 679367 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321205840 716127 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321206020 767704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Simple undefined variable/type error count so far: About 15
< 1321206030 940141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO KNOW
< 1321206069 230047 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I feel like that amount is already saying something about your attention to detail
< 1321206163 431291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, only subhumans forget to import a module, or type .read instead of .recv, or append a list to a list of arguments BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT IN PYTHON IT ACTUALLY ENDS UP AS A TUPLE
< 1321206172 238132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loooove Python
< 1321206589 488617 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321207705 823744 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321208333 460501 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321208913 261810 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321208988 828773 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321210122 203974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice a distinct lack of language designed with syntax styled after the first chapter of Genesis.
< 1321210131 360642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*languages
< 1321210195 637904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on the seventh line, God said, "let there be a floating point number named x, and let it equal 3.0," and God saw that it was good.
< 1321210284 734078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If I implement all the fingerprints Mycology tests will you add Shiro to the result ranking? :p
< 1321210321 675784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm there is a place in the TES universe called "Elsweyr", I never thought much about it until I heard it voice acted today... Sounded like "elsewhere" XD
< 1321210333 232677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321210345 24075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw did you check the rest of the screenshots?
< 1321210349 826128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321210380 971957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw I figured out one reason witcher 2 looks so much better. No first person perspective. You don't get quite as close to the textures that way
< 1321210382 548834 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mostly it needs a homepage and I need the time and interest :-P
< 1321210395 229748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also it genuinely have better textures as well
< 1321210408 910731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why's it need a homepage :'(
< 1321210417 445081 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So that I can link to it :-P
< 1321210424 298170 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Github or whatever is fine
< 1321210425 550184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: irc://irc.freenode.net/esoteric
< 1321210429 360145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1321210432 769565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a good permalink
< 1321210441 687458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, this is because syntax-based languages are crappy.
< 1321210442 990320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything involving me isn't very perma
< 1321210448 885385 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in your case it's probably better than it usually would be
< 1321210455 948742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I only ask because I'm considering starting on Shiro 2 :P
< 1321210462 976079 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that?
< 1321210464 856811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does *every* RPG these day have some sort of crafting system? Why is that so popular.
< 1321210468 249743 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah I see, esoteric programming languages are all about high quality.
< 1321210477 863244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I lost the latest Shiro 1 source and thought of a fairly decent fungespace structure in the meantime
< 1321210497 160629 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd you manage to lose it
< 1321210515 418812 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I'd move Shiro 1 out once Shiro 2 comes in
< 1321210515 597741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (Basically: Make a HashMap for every 128x128 block of fungespace or so, and have a structure data FS = FS {fs::HashMap ...,, left::FS, right::FS, up::FS, down::FS}; keep track of the FS that the IP is currently in)
< 1321210532 575142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I managed to lose it because my computer broke and then I accidentally trashed my backup
< 1321210544 221635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And I meant Shiro 2, not Shiro 1
< 1321210555 75110 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321210563 879053 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in any case, it's mostly about me taking the time and effort
< 1321210575 108612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what if it also had a unique faith-based paradigm.
< 1321210579 406022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This is why you should be a robot?
< 1321210581 528337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have no proof that the program executes
< 1321210586 709109 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you simply must believe that it did.
< 1321210588 150731 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose?
< 1321210614 607256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, been done.
< 1321210617 185387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there was alchemy and enchanting in oblivion. Now there is also smithing, a skill used for smithing (as expected) but also smelting (yeah okay) and tanning (what, how is that related to smithing?)
< 1321210655 900123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did ATHR ever get a real spec
< 1321210660 653251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to make sure Shiro 2 could support it
< 1321210670 146067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, is there also wood burning, lye making, butchery, cooking and soapmaking?
< 1321210733 701903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I believe there is wood cutting, ore mining and some other such stuff. They don't seem to have any skill connected to them that I noticed. Can't say I have done a lot of those tasks though yet
< 1321210739 935314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and yes there is cooking
< 1321210744 876462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what skill
< 1321210766 435963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, hmm, how does mining work?
< 1321210773 454865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world isn't mutable, I assume.
< 1321210778 169108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321210801 921099 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sounds like they took a really, truly insignificant part of D&D and took it seriously. :P
< 1321210807 591175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, put pickaxe in inventory, find vein of ore, target it and press e. Wait a bit to get some ore out of it, then a message "the vein is exhausted"
< 1321210820 635812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what bit of D&D would that be?
< 1321210835 375101 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Craft(...) skills, of course.
< 1321210837 102096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it's exactly like Minecraft :P
< 1321210842 51255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you can operate saw mills.
< 1321210851 977810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite, did you see that link, I think Phantom_Hoover posted it?
< 1321210852 76877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Elder "Scrolls"
< 1321210857 239405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which link
< 1321210860 916959 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Profession(...)
< 1321210861 903726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1321210862 792360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :see log
< 1321210863 782869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I skipped through it
< 1321210865 498944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to youtube
< 1321210867 461502 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What link?
< 1321210876 634680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of minecraft+skyrim
< 1321210885 969950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wasn't it you who posted it?
< 1321210888 979534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is really, *insanely* insignificant, and I find it amazing that it's even in D20.
< 1321210897 729859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh
< 1321210909 532007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well Skyrim uses it's own system. Not D20 afaik
< 1321210912 456460 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, that was me.
< 1321210936 743366 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BAH
< 1321210960 32832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What if I make it beat CCBI on Fungicide :P
< 1321210962 509797 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyways, that shit's stupid.
< 1321210980 664721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? Not really here. It kind of fits in.
< 1321210989 660171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can of course improve weapons too
< 1321210993 306467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a grindstone
< 1321211007 738672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C'mooooooon, ATHR draft
< 1321211008 691442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think you uses that for all types of weapons. Let me check....
< 1321211019 249789 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd still prefer that it had a URL and I'd still need to take the time :-P
< 1321211021 811247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can improve maces and bows at a grindstone
< 1321211025 515805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't make sense
< 1321211030 55438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: A URL is not a problem :P
< 1321211031 386768 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (Doing Fungicide is a lot worse than just Mycology)
< 1321211032 52743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, !logs
< 1321211047 474391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You used rafb.net back then, I distinctly recall
< 1321211055 354215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have it now and it isn't complete afaik. There wasn't really all that much interest in it either
< 1321211068 755306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you have a backup of the ATHR spec, then :P
< 1321211075 870359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm pretty sure it is in the efunge repo. Anyway if it isn't, then I can't get it atm. I'm booted into windows for skyrim
< 1321211082 126134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be on my linux partition
< 1321211101 157394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks.
< 1321211108 610983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I'm reserving the right to change it. Just as a warning.
< 1321211112 196367 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Evidently not
< 1321211120 535066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, you cannot have that right, I will sue you
< 1321211127 7122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because iirc some of the stuff about communication between threads was kind of broken
< 1321211132 921142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, didn't work very well
< 1321211138 65271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321211139 149849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't care, just need to figure out how much I need to isolate
< 1321211155 656454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the efunge repo
< 1321211157 919940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, well look in the non-trunk branch of efunge on launchpad
< 1321211163 231689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is definitely not in trunk
< 1321211168 154390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321211168 700932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the ATHR feature branch
< 1321211178 204942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How
< 1321211181 826101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :launchpad is impossible to navigate
< 1321211187 425054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1321211200 582346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.launchpad.net/efunge
< 1321211202 809382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no ATHR branch
< 1321211210 480848 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.launchpad.net/~anmaster/efunge/supervisor-tree
< 1321211213 948890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lp:~anmaster/efunge/supervisor-tree
< 1321211215 6431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321211215 89878 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is the feature branch to add ATHR."
< 1321211216 767152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is there
< 1321211219 299677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good name :P
< 1321211241 978604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that name is after the major internal restructuring that was required for it
< 1321211251 270589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes sense
< 1321211267 238854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is not in there, either
< 1321211275 331688 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comment why, not what. (Same applies to this?)
< 1321211299 352412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Branch names are more like variable names
< 1321211307 425578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: index, not count_for_loop
< 1321211314 931929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I will upload it next time I boot to windows, unless it is on my laptop
< 1321211317 324278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check that
< 1321211321 885738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variable names should definitely by what, not how or why :P
< 1321211324 305712 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe
< 1321211337 98666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it is
< 1321211349 873881 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, branch names don't seem obviously neither "what" nor "why"
< 1321211355 336290 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double negative whee
< 1321211369 428239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Branch names should be "what-goal", I think
< 1321211374 131355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I'm going to rework the "book" thingy probably when I finish implementing it. Because it didn't feel right.
< 1321211378 4630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So athr or athr-support
< 1321211383 801878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/cHEi
< 1321211387 826179 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That seems like "why"
< 1321211389 268938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there you have it
< 1321211391 690369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thanks
< 1321211394 989844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What would what be, then
< 1321211397 752752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "goal" is a "why" thing
< 1321211405 274519 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "what" is what it is currently, supervisor-tree
< 1321211415 313654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we're violently agreeing on what the branch name should be
< 1321211423 95359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not on the meanings of "what" and "why" :P
< 1321211447 136810 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also thinking that it might not be clear-cut in general
< 1321211451 602772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about?
< 1321211454 895251 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some cases you might prefer something like the current name
< 1321211464 93991 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in this case IMO :-P
< 1321211478 6643 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: About why your branch name isn't "athr" or equivalent
< 1321211492 229448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, whatever
< 1321211526 470991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, idea for future ubuntu code name: Sinking Sloth
< 1321211564 994581 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they always go in alphabetical order?
< 1321211582 689456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't start that way
< 1321211588 694130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think they are doing that now
< 1321211613 171579 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1321211757 873582 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They went alphabetical pretty fast.
< 1321211785 557643 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder which Q-animal they will pick; it's the next they need to decide.
< 1321211812 950042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quilled Porcupine
< 1321211930 483549 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the quagga.
< 1321211941 650761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. quagga, Equus quagga -- (mammal of South Africa that resembled a zebra; extinct since late 19th century)
< 1321211950 102180 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :African and all.
< 1321211958 513914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUTH Africam
< 1321211965 648872 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/m/n/
< 1321211978 931028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quail
< 1321211989 213437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantitative Quail
< 1321212068 640910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with skyrim atm is that no one really knows the answers yet. So if you are truly stuck at something you can't just go look it up.
< 1321212123 596431 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's funny how so many Minecraft players are boycotting Skyrim due to the Scrolls lawsuit, when Notch himself has got Skyrim
< 1321212154 352862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, they are what... lol
< 1321212171 938673 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course the quetzal, and the quetzalcoatl.
< 1321212211 139362 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quiet Quahog an ode to the sturdy mollusk"
< 1321212227 721520 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames always has the best suggestions.
< 1321212474 940036 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I get fsck ro tun on reboot?
< 1321212477 803678 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321212481 808166 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ro tun/to run/
< 1321212526 343753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It'll already run fsck when it has to.
< 1321212577 798193 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about when you skip it? will it try again on next reboot?
< 1321212586 247885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly
< 1321212659 68483 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, it will keep trying if you keep skipping it.
< 1321212663 261147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, why skip it? It takes like 10-15 seconds anyway even on a huge partition with lots of small files, at least for me
< 1321212688 92512 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am helping someone with their shit
< 1321212694 191510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not knowing things at the same time.
< 1321212694 341097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321212696 571467 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun.
< 1321212720 398836 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so this episode was about the bold "plan" to retake DS9, but it seems the "plan" is essentially "collect all the ships and fly to DS9 in a straight line"
< 1321212763 578074 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly "bold".
< 1321212808 486360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You forgot "stop when you reach DS9".
< 1321212844 321863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'd know better, but seems like a stupid way to do space warfare to take your blob of ships, meet another blob of ships and start shooting
< 1321212982 588322 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, in this case "stop when you reach the enemy fleet between you and DS9"
< 1321213010 348152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that's how tactics work in DS9, duh.
< 1321213027 23870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets particularly silly when they have space blockades which they can't go around for some reason.
< 1321213074 197979 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :equally silly, they haven't managed to get rid of the treaty on cloaking devices even though they're in a full-on war against this dominion thing
< 1321213118 930210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since the romulans are supposed to be allies at this time
< 1321213133 97019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I should try making a panorama from skyrim later. As far as I can tell there is no parallax.
< 1321213163 888628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, don't knock it, at least they *used* them occasionally.
< 1321213373 422241 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that there was one episode of Trek-something where someone (Picard, Kirk?) had an OMG WOW breakthrough idea of avoiding a circular space blockade minefield by (gasp!) going "up"/"down".
< 1321213379 114280 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three-dimensional thinking!
< 1321213392 161700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was Wrath of Khan?
< 1321213407 368337 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I might've just read about it from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Two-DSpace or something.
< 1321213418 152481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also once in DS9 the Klingons put mines around Bajor, since they apparently have like a billion mines lying around.
< 1321213502 69082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321213529 947256 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :""His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
< 1321213530 29536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Spock, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" -- apparently so.
< 1321213558 996666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genetically engineered supermen are notoriously incapable of grasping the concept of height.
< 1321213632 297076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except those which cannot grasp left-right, instead.
< 1321213740 660512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably weave this into yet another complicated Bashir silliness, but I can't be bothered.
< 1321213865 687596 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they didn't have a million mines, so they built self-replicating mines
< 1321213920 600080 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was apparently an original idea in the 24th century)
< 1321214065 144636 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I still haven't seen any starship meet an upside-down starship (except when it's a dead one - then they flip over)
< 1321214102 686586 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's a protocol to decide which way is up when two starships meet, and the losing ship flips to make it less confusing
< 1321214114 630273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321214115 744440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1321214132 599410 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "Another reason "Genesis" is considered a particularly bad episode (in addition to the Evolutionary Levels crap) is the fact that, when the Captain's shuttle returns, they can tell something's wrong...because the Enterprise isn't straight on."
< 1321214134 534390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe they all do it so Bashir doesn't get confused?
< 1321214141 663602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, try to imagine that on a 3-D interface (in fact, play Frontier: Elite 2 and think yourself lucky if you survive your first "dogfight")."
< 1321214150 456960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha ha ha it should have been two-dimensional.
< 1321214157 808326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asteroids II: the best.
< 1321214205 762660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] (except when it's a dead one - then they flip over) <-- so basically space is an ocean and spaceships are goldfish.
< 1321214226 288316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first being, of course, a trope.)
< 1321214231 401717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, maybe it's a holdback from before they banished all the genetically engineered people
< 1321214309 266033 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever use (x <$ guard y) or (guard y >> x) in Haskell?
< 1321214383 465119 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are useful with the Maybe monad, and the second one useful with the list monad too.
< 1321214468 729733 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you ask some mathematicians what the MonadPlus laws should be?
< 1321214606 311526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan
< 1321214609 282839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 needs a mathematician
< 1321214678 47536 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion it should be the left zero law and monoid laws, but maybe a mathematician will know better
< 1321214716 183944 :Sgeo|chromcrash!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321214756 461255 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321214773 552612 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-100.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321214848 310732 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./testlm-disk.pl ../twungot/tokens.bin.irc ../twungot/model.bin.irc 3 mathematicians do it with
< 1321214848 356254 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians do it with tail calls in some situations. :o
< 1321214848 356402 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians do it with types, give you the vector of interrupt handlers. error code UNK (UNK (close connection))
< 1321214848 356502 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians do it with sed :) cool! println works fine?! i posted the interface docs the other day. did it wrong.
< 1321215177 267579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : A memory efficient SKI interpreter would try to find all the ``k's and all the `i's before doing ```s's <-- also find applications of ``sii and cache them.  that way you can get efficient y combinators.  (i think.  i thought of this in the context of lazy-k.)
< 1321215211 521413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i assumed he meant a _relevant_ mathematician.
< 1321215257 505013 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: All mathematicians are interchangeable.
< 1321215269 685553 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the technical term is "isomorphic".
< 1321215276 879436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style iwcs
< 1321215277 322350 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts)
< 1321215281 678608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Pontificate.
< 1321215282 196392 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of all, the first one was a complete the binding the crocodile's jaws are tied us up and left us here! we're the last! it is!
< 1321215285 649823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321215291 596478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321215305 670280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the scripts
< 1321215326 790205 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321215328 756306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I scraped them :)
< 1321215339 299008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.  for the good of mankind.
< 1321215349 925380 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I no longer have to think about why REISUB wasn't working
< 1321215474 992676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: were you using Windows?
< 1321215487 387417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a reasonably obvious explanation for REISUB not working
< 1321215496 950745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : eodermwekjiwrdrome was a better name :( <-- no it's not
< 1321215518 917234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one also nonplanar as a graph?
< 1321215534 227829 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using Linux. Was being the operative word.
< 1321215546 318535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'd assume it's not a _complete_ graph
< 1321215553 929821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably need to enable magic SysRq
< 1321215587 491958 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could even touch SysRq right now, I'd be much happier than I am
< 1321215608 283957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye Gregor.
< 1321215619 911033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably need to enable magic
< 1321215621 383163 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped my computer, and the USB stick I was running off of broke
< 1321215646 759230 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you run Linux of SD cards!
< 1321215764 549134 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that something that could actually be done?
< 1321215780 918934 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it
< 1321215791 634092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not as fast as a USB stick
< 1321215811 381592 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1321215822 226999 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be safer...
< 1321215830 652620 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to run Haiku of one, too, but it wouldn't boot
< 1321215843 68725 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much HD space would I need to reasonably use MonoDevelop?
< 1321215863 865469 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows
< 1321216127 981711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: STOP DROPPING YOUR FUCKING COMPUTER
< 1321216179 544422 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, STOP FUCKING YOUR COMPUTER DROPPINGS
< 1321216184 926047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's planar
< 1321216217 48083 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not healthy
< 1321216221 629768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :         /---\
< 1321216223 618179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :j - k - e - o \
< 1321216223 663611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : \     /|\ /|\ \
< 1321216223 663779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :  i - w-r-d /| |
< 1321216223 663882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :       \|\-/ / /
< 1321216225 944423 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :        m---/ /
< 1321216228 490404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :         \---/
< 1321216237 2875 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4371b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321216305 673690 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got kerning to work with typesetSimpleString in Graphics.DVI but I am having a bit of problem to try to figure out ligaturing
< 1321216344 94763 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know they are correct; I have compared them with results from TeX)
< 1321216371 496061 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321216389 906005 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321216709 569065 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANNOUNCEMENT:
< 1321216712 232968 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a kitty.
< 1321216726 801673 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no!
< 1321216784 640487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you already announced that.
< 1321216784 818931 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321216948 244069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard those announcements for a long time.  it may not be the same kitty.  maybe this is a descendant of the original one.
< 1321216970 29135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is now a huge scary thing.
< 1321216971 592572 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catsplosion
< 1321217024 691463 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: KITTY.
< 1321217295 68679 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321217517 908967 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello greasemonkey
< 1321217524 74881 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo
< 1321217823 766213 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo x = (x:foo (x+1)) in foo 1
< 1321217824 824106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
< 1321217850 422034 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..
< 1321217851 661480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
< 1321217854 174440 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..]
< 1321217855 200266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
< 1321217859 483984 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1321217859 666757 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easier way
< 1321217881 926895 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib x y = (x:(fib y (x+y))) in fib 1 1
< 1321217883 66648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1...
< 1321217903 29555 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ((1:) . scanl (+) 1)
< 1321217904 754421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1...
< 1321217930 941838 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is where i show that i don't know shit about the haskell standard library
< 1321217945 249852 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (\ x -> x * x) [1..]
< 1321217951 116680 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\ x -> x * x) [1..]
< 1321217952 93477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321217952 829101 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321217956 258054 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (^2) [1..]
< 1321217957 226755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321217963 610292 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm
< 1321217972 344385 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (join(*)) [1..]
< 1321217973 390179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321217986 776151 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i forget what fold (foldl / foldr ?) is for
< 1321217994 895678 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr
< 1321217995 845208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
< 1321218000 126049 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any further questions?
< 1321218001 80777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith (*) [1..] [1..]
< 1321218002 167384 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218008 116715 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1' (+) [1..10]
< 1321218009 246706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  55
< 1321218016 443318 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1321218029 480099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join.zipWith(*)$[1..]
< 1321218030 482876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> a' against inferred type `[a]'
< 1321218031 819259 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail [1,2,5]
< 1321218032 588282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH
< 1321218032 790462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,5]
< 1321218047 345454 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (zipWith(*)) [1..]
< 1321218048 634485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218054 436072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually.
< 1321218057 133442 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,3..]
< 1321218058 52084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,51,5...
< 1321218061 326006 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay
< 1321218064 763941 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith(*) `join` [1..] -- That's nice.
< 1321218065 805958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218095 743834 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x^2|x <- [1..]]
< 1321218097 556169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [x^2|x <- [1..]]
< 1321218098 499014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218099 536132 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the one which cuts a list off after a certain point?
< 1321218104 714443 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :take
< 1321218110 927761 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 10 [1..]
< 1321218111 884689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
< 1321218113 798440 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay
< 1321218142 237123 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (`take` [1,3..]) [1..]
< 1321218143 328406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[1],[1,3],[1,3,5],[1,3,5,7],[1,3,5,7,9],[1,3,5,7,9,11],[1,3,5,7,9,11,13],[...
< 1321218146 411576 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321218152 932659 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And takeWhile is like that, but it cuts a list off based on a function a->Bool
< 1321218158 810606 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> foldl 0 (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
< 1321218159 973004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [t])
< 1321218160 163283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_10131' at  takeWhile (!=10) [1..] -- for instance
< 1321218180 68451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `!='
< 1321218181 983401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH
< 1321218184 180427 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> takeWhile (/=10) [1..] -- for instance
< 1321218185 213820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
< 1321218192 59971 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> foldr (+) (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
< 1321218193 49730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [t])
< 1321218193 334580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1131' at  map (\x -> foldd1' (+) (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
< 1321218219 834799 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `foldd1''
< 1321218221 51153 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1321218223 733250 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> foldl1' (+) (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
< 1321218224 836973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218228 750245 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321218236 114443 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's probably a nice way to curry that
< 1321218239 249400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a scanr to me
< 1321218244 811311 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (\x -> sum (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
< 1321218247 55346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr (+) 0 [1,3..]
< 1321218248 611920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [*Exception: stack overflow
< 1321218251 634735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> sum (take x [1,3..])) [1..]
< 1321218252 548825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl (+) 0 [1,3..]
< 1321218252 737250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218253 563768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,...
< 1321218260 167828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1,3..]
< 1321218261 70414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218262 57322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Tada
< 1321218265 495057 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321218281 609262 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,3,6..]
< 1321218282 619931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `..'
< 1321218286 844289 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope that doesn't exist
< 1321218296 709808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we know have about a dozen ways to make an infinite list of squares in Haskell
< 1321218300 911041 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321218305 442708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321218311 116089 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ k/ /
< 1321218314 189794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321218318 908971 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must say it is a lovely language when you're not getting bombarded with type errors
< 1321218373 315553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: I prefer dynamically typed languages, where the type errors result in silent breakage when you least expect it.
< 1321218404 205351 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer my statically typed languages to be explicitly typed
< 1321218414 882719 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> x * (x+1) / 2) [1..]
< 1321218415 850642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1.0,3.0,6.0,10.0,15.0,21.0,28.0,36.0,45.0,55.0,66.0,78.0,91.0,105.0,120.0,...
< 1321218418 237617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should learn a few things about category theory, too.
< 1321218424 594897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: You mean you... prefer having to write out a type signature for every value?
< 1321218440 461481 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1..]
< 1321218441 482005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
< 1321218442 397415 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, at least you know damn well what thing it is
< 1321218458 137327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write Haskell program, I do write a type signature for every top level declaraion
< 1321218460 434943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: That's why there's a strong Haskell convention to put a type signature on every top-level value
< 1321218466 612430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having to specify one for every single subexpression would be insane
< 1321218479 387997 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay
< 1321218482 1870 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sometimes for subexpressions too
< 1321218489 781770 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not all subexpressions
< 1321218494 730647 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the syntax for that again?
< 1321218495 907954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> x * (x+1) `div` 2) [1..]
< 1321218496 881780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
< 1321218503 517935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: foo :: type
< 1321218505 925488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main :: IO ()
< 1321218508 143999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStrLn "hi"
< 1321218521 59619 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1..]
< 1321218521 439137 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((2 :: Int) + (2 :: Int)) :: Int
< 1321218521 960541 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo :: Num -> Num
< 1321218522 362204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
< 1321218522 523431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  4
< 1321218524 634357 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr :: Int -> Int -> [Int]
< 1321218525 714066 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ would that be right?
< 1321218533 296103 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm
< 1321218537 165728 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo :: Num -> Num -> Num
< 1321218539 23407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Num isn't a type
< 1321218539 716362 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ^
< 1321218543 580252 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm
< 1321218549 431041 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo :: Int -> Int -> Int
< 1321218553 604459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (+)
< 1321218553 687542 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively
< 1321218554 774610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a -> a
< 1321218557 830411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> inits [1,3..] --  > map (`take` [1,3..]) [1..]
< 1321218558 944196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[],[1],[1,3],[1,3,5],[1,3,5,7],[1,3,5,7,9],[1,3,5,7,9,11],[1,3,5,7,9,11,13...
< 1321218559 639152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo :: Int -> Int -> Int
< 1321218562 535636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo :: Integer -> Integer -> Integer
< 1321218563 123375 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo a :: a -> a -> a
< 1321218565 571294 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321218566 546146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :addtwo :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a
< 1321218566 887531 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321218567 809291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: no
< 1321218573 800797 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit hmm
< 1321218577 980496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : addtwo :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a
< 1321218578 405591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321218583 833198 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321218617 568987 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :singletonList :: a -> [a]
< 1321218628 949740 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum inits [1,3..]
< 1321218630 20974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
< 1321218630 233121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `[a1] -> [...
< 1321218633 968406 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have "return" and "pure" already make a singleton list
< 1321218635 287334 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1321218640 211805 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (sum) inits [1,3..]
< 1321218641 138132 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum $ inits [1,3..]
< 1321218641 336934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[[a]]'
< 1321218641 382109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `[a1] ->...
< 1321218642 68108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [t])
< 1321218642 233992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_113' at  map (sum) (inits [1,3..])
< 1321218645 970896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,...
< 1321218654 834239 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (sum) (tail inits [1,3..])
< 1321218655 759885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
< 1321218655 976315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `[a1] -> [...
< 1321218660 590403 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (sum) (tail (inits [1,3..]))
< 1321218661 674033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218664 163821 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :bracketitis
< 1321218675 463129 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's more of a LISP thing to have bracketitis
< 1321218689 416576 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map sum $ tail $ inits [1,3..]
< 1321218689 933276 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1,3..]
< 1321218690 466620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218690 981411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48...
< 1321218699 259456 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i DO like how KWrite's scheme highlighter highlights the parentheses in rainbow colours though
< 1321218699 964716 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1,4..]
< 1321218700 955390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,5,12,22,35,51,70,92,117,145,176,210,247,287,330,376,425,477,532,590,651,...
< 1321218707 131230 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :figurate numbers ftw
< 1321218726 122865 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so scanl1 (+) [1,3..] is the small one
< 1321218765 199573 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it scanl1 is essentially based on fold?
< 1321218768 258941 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "scanl1 (+) [1,3..]"
< 1321218769 355175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  18
< 1321218781 428237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src scanl1
< 1321218781 643601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle scanl1
< 1321218781 906924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl1 f (x:xs) =  scanl f x xs
< 1321218782 21562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl1 _ []     =  []
< 1321218782 201572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude scanl1 :: (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1321218782 352976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List scanl1 :: (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> [a]
< 1321218782 398293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 scanl1 :: (Char -> Char -> Char) -> ByteString -> ByteString
< 1321218783 410676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321218784 1296 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "map (^2) [1..]"
< 1321218785 65635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  14
< 1321218787 449731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan got it right :P
< 1321218789 923342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src scanl
< 1321218790 310597 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's shorter
< 1321218790 399253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of
< 1321218790 604127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    []   -> []
< 1321218790 711729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs
< 1321218791 234312 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: folds and scans are related, but I wouldn't say one is based on the other
< 1321218792 286848 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.
< 1321218808 133191 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: a scan basically tells you the accumulator of the fold at every step
< 1321218814 227160 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet
< 1321218821 551282 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321218825 463630 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: as such, a fold is the last element of the list the scan produces
< 1321218828 618949 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :so conceptually based, but not based on by implementation?
< 1321218874 25204 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f l (r:rs) = (l:(f l (scanl f r rs)))
< 1321218876 235630 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ would that be it?
< 1321218887 852092 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many brackets
< 1321218899 183738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: it was listed above
< 1321218901 288626 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except of course there's the case of scanl f l [] = [l])
< 1321218903 955083 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm
< 1321219004 475308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting the q : outside both cases makes it lazier, i think.
< 1321219026 785120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 1 $ scanl undefined "boo!" undefined
< 1321219027 800867 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["boo!"]
< 1321219088 877100 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321219889 693260 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've drawn another PixelQuest update
< 1321219894 421092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uploading as we speak
< 1321219905 501278 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Phantom_Hoover, it isn't your's yet
< 1321219911 986659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321219927 763363 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're fifth in the queue!
< 1321219935 984510 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321219939 863317 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D?
< 1321219955 820836 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do the air vents in the Batman show have a sign that says "AIR VENT"? And a lot of other things are labeled too
< 1321219979 262017 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason as why one of the pixels in PixelQuest is a pirate. It's funny.
< 1321220010 350800 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Chrome just crashed
< 1321220018 102658 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now Firefox takes the helm
< 1321220207 429349 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many MML compilers do you know of?
< 1321220219 73460 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321220292 756392 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of SakuraMML which seem very good, however, it is Japanese only and I always get error message about ConvToHalfStep1 so it never works
< 1321220374 176405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it is also Windows only. But it is written in Pascal and there could be Pascal compiler for other computer it could work
< 1321220394 22107 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't need to worry about that right now since I currently have Windows.
< 1321220443 81033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PQ update is online
< 1321220488 143734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, DO MINE YOU BASTARD
< 1321220501 504606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There.
< 1321220502 345930 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is.
< 1321220503 464109 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A.
< 1321220506 201999 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUEUE!!!!
< 1321220522 503221 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES AND I SHOULD TAKE PRIORITY
< 1321220533 864343 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you pay for a priority ticket?
< 1321220539 993380 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's a good idea
< 1321220543 809728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What reason do you think for the priority?
< 1321220553 45870 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if PQ becomes my primary occupation
< 1321220663 143943 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PQ?
< 1321220669 288778 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PixelQuest
< 1321220670 866079 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parti Québecois?
< 1321220674 326899 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Progress Quest?
< 1321220674 967666 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321220676 158351 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An MSPAFA I write
< 1321220682 654934 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSPAFA?
< 1321220690 527087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdjkfsdklfj
< 1321220691 570625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321220695 151676 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321220696 80664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im join in acronym party
< 1321220699 91022 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Paint Adventures Fan Adventure
< 1321220706 471934 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multi-Step Partially Advancing Finite Automaton?
< 1321220710 219264 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321220718 441276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's Multi-Step Partially Advancing Finite Automaton
< 1321220721 401724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got it right first time
< 1321220724 460587 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1321220965 22399 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321221051 983664 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321221088 13130 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which programs do you use for typeface design?
< 1321221123 405304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't design typefaces
< 1321221229 767624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc you said 3.4 GHz was overkill? Well I'm now waiting for a single threaded computation intensive calculation to complete
< 1321221256 929599 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of a few programs; there is FontForge, and a few others, but METAFONT is best one.
< 1321221292 766453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm doing exposure optimisation with hugin on screenshots I took in skyrim. It seems skyrim uses HDR effects, light levels differ quite a bit depending on if the sun is in the view or not
< 1321221296 556592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this might not work out
< 1321221300 935298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, emacs is the best typeface designer.
< 1321221314 483425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, nah, dd + cat and maybe od
< 1321221316 88578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, by "3.4 GHz is a waste of money and power", I totally meant "a 3.4 GHz i7 is never faster than 2.9 GHz i7"!
< 1321221326 956823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the command in emacs for typeface designing?
< 1321221328 145467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really?
< 1321221331 948181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would that be?
< 1321221336 16675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. You are interpreting me correctly.
< 1321221344 277942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good old M-x design-typeface   duh
< 1321221346 276843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1321221352 124536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I didn't claim you meant that
< 1321221365 101872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but anything that makes this computation faster is a good thing...
< 1321221373 154503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the above is syntactically correct elliott.
< 1321221414 940400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, a "syntactically correct elliott", okaaay....
< 1321221429 809396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:55 < elliott> Absolutely. You are interpreting me correctly.
< 1321221433 45570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There was no "a" in CakeProphet's statement.
< 1321221463 8455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps you don't understand the syntax of CakeProphet.
< 1321221471 5555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, but it was funnier that way
< 1321221479 295032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am somewhat confused about what he meant thoughg
< 1321221482 951882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1321221501 417200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a slight play on words.
< 1321221516 5202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHEESH AND NOW IT'S TOTALLY UNFUNNY BECAUSE I HAVE TO EXPLAININ ET AAAAAH
< 1321221521 469415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to the store. hmph.
< 1321221572 320678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah the HDR effects are destroying the pano. If I get time and happen to be in that location when it is cloudy, I will try again
< 1321221657 836458 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you are now 4th in the queue
< 1321221660 894707 :l96!~l96@2.29.73.167 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321221674 87250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, WORK FASTER
< 1321221676 220595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, queue to what?
< 1321221703 966883 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321221710 578631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having his Pixel embark on a Quest
< 1321221717 934567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, eh?
< 1321221727 974272 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1321221738 995888 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :His command for PixelQuest being used
< 1321221746 879716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cracked... has confused backslashes with forward slashes.
< 1321221750 296571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION applauds.
< 1321221758 982176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, pixelquest being?
< 1321221767 661629 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My MSPAFA
< 1321221782 322816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally have said this not ten minutes ago
< 1321221782 620852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, can you expand that abbreviation?
< 1321221801 521741 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Paint Adventures Fanatic Adventure
< 1321221805 556692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1321221823 376075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, correct you did literally not say it within the last 10 minutes.
< 1321221855 791319 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321221855 880734 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321221855 926269 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321221860 825636 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 20 minutes ago
< 1321221867 992527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321221868 604408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk tsk
< 1321221890 470187 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm able to be misunderstood to be honest
< 1321221913 205154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
< 1321221922 692125 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321221948 944774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: kp
< 1321221988 891239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aesrdtfyguhijokpl[;]
< 1321221994 649005 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[;]
< 1321222108 994532 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Canada, Japan, Switzerland have in common?
< 1321222117 671469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ping.
< 1321222125 54805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pong
< 1321222125 443577 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they're all islands?
< 1321222125 837093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They're all US states.
< 1321222132 907293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a".
< 1321222135 28778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you serious :P
< 1321222139 700859 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, no
< 1321222144 279957 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan's not an island
< 1321222148 107507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No.
< 1321222150 772212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No.
< 1321222151 476451 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they're all frends
< 1321222156 257028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Nor is Switzerland or Canada :P
< 1321222157 897270 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do I clip the ground lead on an anti-static wristband onto?
< 1321222158 950397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :switzerland is an anti-island.
< 1321222173 224876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are all famous for their military
< 1321222175 919075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: an earthing stud
< 1321222182 854192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get ones that plug into the mains earth supply
< 1321222186 642384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I do with mine
< 1321222191 900563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I am thinking of a different answer.
< 1321222194 450670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the 4th answer I've had so far.
< 1321222197 901996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's basically just a connection to the mains earth pin through a highish-valued resistor
< 1321222199 748134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1321222202 759464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are completely different.
< 1321222211 400682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321222231 296675 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't military. It isn't location. It isn't language. Try again.
< 1321222232 659047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone answered "an earthed metal part of whatever you're working on", that answer is also correct, although arguably not as good
< 1321222235 997616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Isn't that one equivalent to "a grounded socket"?
< 1321222241 332718 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK.
< 1321222249 445219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :their flags are all white and red.
< 1321222251 607686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, define an earthed metal part of it?
< 1321222256 686800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes.
< 1321222259 7650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case would qualify, I think.
< 1321222260 435260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a metal part of it that is intended to be connected to earth
< 1321222262 955168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the case of a computer
< 1321222279 595192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they're all in the set {Switzerland, Japan, Canada}.
< 1321222289 827412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: denmark belongs in that set too.
< 1321222302 643579 :l96!~l96@2.29.73.167 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321222331 442307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no it doesn't? Don't you even know set theory?
< 1321222347 888896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the set of countries with red and white flags.
< 1321222362 903905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, not {Switzerland, Japan, Canada}.
< 1321222363 992503 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Denmark is not in the set {Switzerland, Japan, Canada}
< 1321222364 834839 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't know. I just knew because once I was in a group and we had to draw flags in school, we assign three flag at random and I noticed that I only need the red and white pencil
< 1321222376 89180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and if the case is painted?
< 1321222378 79650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wasn't the paper white?
< 1321222383 143925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you clip it to the inside of the case
< 1321222386 920807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't remember.
< 1321222391 73018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm absurdly paranoid about blowing out the CPU by accident.)
< 1321222391 118203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of thing is why people practically use separate earthing studs
< 1321222418 492560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, if you've built up a very large charge, a properly designed earthing stud will prevent you shocking /yourself/ when discharging it, which touching the case won't do)
< 1321222432 69872 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was a large poster paper
< 1321222448 513259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something like a computer, it's in practice enough just to touch metal surfaces everywhere you walk
< 1321222457 934490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember much else about it.
< 1321222460 132917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a habit of doing that nowadays after spending four years as an electronic engineer
< 1321222474 976701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that "earthing stud" returns no relevant google shopping results :P
< 1321222482 474895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the maximum charge you can sustain depends on the weather (particularly humidity); on a rainy day there's unlikely to be much of a problem
< 1321222545 636861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but clipping it to the case would be perfectly adequate for normal purposes?
< 1321222555 727549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be
< 1321222569 432670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the case is properly earthed, but I don't see why it wouldn't be
< 1321222587 952820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's not plugged in, for one thing
< 1321222602 406411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is that an unplugged computer has a floating potential, so if you earth it at your own potential, then you can't shock any part of it
< 1321222608 781401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the voltages everywhere are measured relative to yourself
< 1321222635 141460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as long as the case is grounded I presume?
< 1321222652 33690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ais523 made a good point there
< 1321222663 749675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the problem is the CPU equalises charge with you, and then has a voltage relative to the *motherboard*?
< 1321222680 772681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: right
< 1321222692 564088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not likely to stay for more than a fraction of a second, but a fraction of a second is enough to blow it out
< 1321222699 912879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you do with plastic computer cases
< 1321222707 474742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are quite common in laptops especially
< 1321222716 180471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's still likely to be an earth connection somewhere; although, I just earth to mains to avoid all these problems
< 1321222716 998318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I thought the problem was discharges between you and the CPU.
< 1321222734 431471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, the problem is that some of the pins of the CPU are at one voltage and some are at another voltage
< 1321222744 691321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the voltage discharges through the CPU for a moment, and that gives it an overvoltage
< 1321222749 583104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still unclear on how one earths the case without plugging it in, though.
< 1321222758 751462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I generally just earthed myself to the mains when working in a computer. Worked fine so far. I guess I touched enough of the case to make it earth itself to me as well...
< 1321222766 90449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's not a case of actually earthing it; rather, it's a case of setting its voltage relative to yours
< 1321222778 297400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You should just attach the other end of the strap to the inside of the wall socket.
< 1321222781 444052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using its earth connection
< 1321222782 490613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good advice.
< 1321222812 54752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's basically how a mains earthing stud works, except it's designed to make utterly sure it connects to the right pin, and there's a resistor in there to prevent you discharging too quickly and shocking yourself
< 1321222819 676891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is fairly easy in Sweden, we have earth clips on the side of the socket.
< 1321222824 437099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's just like that except not being stupid :P
< 1321222853 382321 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321222855 869872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in the UK, the socket has an earth socket where the earth pin goes, and unless there's a pin in it, the live and neutral sockets are covered by plastic
< 1321222860 329389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the earth pin is longer on the plugs
< 1321222871 563948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, we have earth clips on the side. Not earth pins at all
< 1321222886 976916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it very hard to touch the live or neutral by mistake, even if you're going around poking wires in there (which is nonetheless not advised)
< 1321222892 227309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this type of connector: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
< 1321222908 507802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the neutral can easily have enough of a voltage difference from earth to shock you, although it's rarely as much as the live has
< 1321222932 458606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how much current's being used in each of the three phases of live
< 1321222951 28979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my earthing system I use when working inside a computer is designed to be earthed to the ground clip.
< 1321222955 425292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they use multiple phases so that they cancel out for the neutral, and so they only need massive wires to carry the live, the neutral can be carried with a reasonably simple one)
< 1321223009 435315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, afaik you don't get three phase connections in the wall sockets unless it is for like washing machine or oven or such
< 1321223013 621854 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so wait, the correct order would be to attach {motherboard, PSU}, attach the two, ground self on PSU, plug in CPU?
< 1321223024 412677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you get one of the three phases in the wall sockets
< 1321223031 956913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes obviously
< 1321223036 118849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chosen at random
< 1321223045 996224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, you're plugging in a motherboard from scratch?
< 1321223048 801603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do they use different phases in different parts of the house or the same phase in a given house?
< 1321223052 449511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes.
< 1321223060 718292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you should ground yourself both on the PSU, and on the antistatic foam that the CPU comes in (while it's still in the foam)
< 1321223070 97540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to equalise them to each other before you try to plug the CPU in
< 1321223077 533959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if the former there could be some issues with audio equipment connected to different wall sockets I imagine
< 1321223082 972599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the most complicated thing?
< 1321223085 155967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably other stuff too
< 1321223086 477482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the former happens on occasion, the latter is more common
< 1321223102 103082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the former actually seems rather stupid
< 1321223102 266717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so motherboard, PSU, ground on PSU and foam, plug in CPU?
< 1321223102 601231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's hard not to do by accident, the antistatic foam is designed so that you're probably going to touch it before you touch the CPU
< 1321223103 608657 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4371b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
< 1321223117 834188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's about right
< 1321223131 408899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try not to touch the pins unless you have to; what causes the problem is different pins getting different voltages
< 1321223133 100119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, attaching motherboard to PSU before grounding?
< 1321223142 277154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is literally made out of static.
< 1321223143 33648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ground before you attach anything
< 1321223145 991353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each component individually
< 1321223152 675512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the motherboard has chips on too
< 1321223171 987624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OK, but attach motherboard to PSU and ground on PSU before foam and CPU?
< 1321223173 735276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ground yourself before you touch any pins of anything; they'll probably be quite near to earth potential, so you should be too
< 1321223175 792170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and try not to touch the pins unless you have to; what causes the problem is different pins getting different voltages <-- why would you have to? There are other reasons than static to avoid touching the pins as well
< 1321223182 531554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover is literally made out of static.
< 1321223185 172877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I advise that you start off by touching part of your house's water supply system
< 1321223187 624997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DID I NOT TELL YOU ABOUT THE JUMPER
< 1321223192 518804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the copper on a radiator, a metal tap, something like that
< 1321223202 346152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure that a bit of human skin fats on a high speed data transfer pin of a CPU is a good idea at all :P
< 1321223203 399548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK now I'm imagining Phantom_Hoover just walking around the house touching things.
< 1321223204 10651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are typically all connected to mains earth to make it easier to route around a house
< 1321223208 353908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually /do/ that
< 1321223228 932959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is fully prepared in case the electrons invade.
< 1321223233 11939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He touches a rubber ducky in the bath and is seen. "It's for safety," he says. His spotter leaves, and he touches the rubber ducky a few more times. It isn't for safety, he just likes rubber duckies.
< 1321223233 949957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, OK, but typical sockets are designed to work around the problem
< 1321223245 77141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: comment on accuracy of my fanfiction.
< 1321223248 629690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WER{W))RE{e{E$}]3[[
< 1321223251 723738 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi I'm here now.
< 1321223253 87478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rejoice.
< 1321223259 257939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've cut my finger on IC sockets a few times, though
< 1321223259 795871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to do that as well during winter, due to the dry air the charge tends to build up otherwise. And then you get a strong chock rather than a small one when you touch something grounded anyway
< 1321223264 167944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I've ever done it on the chip itself
< 1321223265 939136 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you have not already joiced, you may joice now.
< 1321223266 7783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have a rubber duckie :(
< 1321223275 616024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch
< 1321223276 56324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, it's a valuable life skill
< 1321223283 208192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321223284 940453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting randomly shocked is annoying
< 1321223289 390774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321223294 11377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've burnt myself a couple of times with a soldering iron too
< 1321223298 301135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's painful but heals quickly
< 1321223308 463963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Soldering irons scare me intensely.
< 1321223313 230801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like WIELDING FIRE
< 1321223328 108553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I don't know what is up with my electrical piano. It builds up a potential compared to the computer case when connected to the computer using USB, but not when connected using a classical midi cable
< 1321223331 202493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen a solder gun? I haven't, but they're like soldering irons except they heat up and cool down really quickly
< 1321223339 681118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you're mad, you can solder something with one, then turn it off and put it in your pocket
< 1321223350 773724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Soldering irons scare me intensely.
< 1321223351 191194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the piano isn't grounded for some reason. It uses an europlug
< 1321223359 136137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So it's a soldering iron except it doesn't warn you that it's hot? AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
< 1321223361 284296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did soldering in physics in first year.
< 1321223366 270829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AIEEEEEEEEEE
< 1321223368 264117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, I suspect the classical midi cable has separate chassis ground and signal ground; I'm not sure if USB does
< 1321223374 237416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that could be it
< 1321223374 776299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The physics teacher promised us a cake day if none of us burned ourselves.
< 1321223384 521616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did not get that cake day. Nor did any other classes, ever.
< 1321223389 34195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm pretty sure classical midi cables are specced to use optoinsulators
< 1321223392 756204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so yeah I guess so
< 1321223398 994623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I want cake day.......
< 1321223402 570645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I never burned myself, also I was the soldering master.)
< 1321223409 571383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the leading theory behind the magic/more magic switch in the hacker story is that the switch connected chassis and signal ground together, btw, which could quite possibly knock a computer offline)
< 1321223422 381433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now my chemistry class has weekly cake days.
< 1321223436 146932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but you don't use soldering irons in chemistry class, typically
< 1321223437 446273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah
< 1321223453 486032 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were going to have a Cake Day in Further Maths weekly, but we got bored of it after three weeks
< 1321223482 348601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I'd be impressed if someone managed a soldering iron burn during Further Maths class
< 1321223494 383537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What if you baked a cake with a soldering iron.
< 1321223497 312910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The maths class have weekly cake days too, but I'm banned from the entire maths department for not unrelated reasons.
< 1321223500 441852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Ngevd is British because he's from Hexham
< 1321223506 346037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also you have to solder the numbers together.
< 1321223509 875900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's further maths.
< 1321223515 192691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quite difficult to do, and it'd have to be a new soldering iron not to have solder on the tip
< 1321223524 596109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Solder cake!
< 1321223535 802607 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't solder poisonous?
< 1321223537 170124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the tip of a soldering iron becomes desoldered, it actually makes it pretty hard to solder with, you have to cover it with solder to get it soldering again
< 1321223545 558163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes, heavy metal poisoning
< 1321223546 850585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Poisonous and DELICIOUS.
< 1321223561 534867 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I got kicked out of maths because I was bored and did nothing of any use to anyone, and then swooped into the class next cake day and made off with some cake.)
< 1321223562 636469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the new RoHS stuff, which contains no lead, isn't so bad, it's still inadvisable to eat it
< 1321223590 431151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They /banned you/ for that?
< 1321223597 954688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: freeloading and eating cake?
< 1321223603 299253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a bannable offense
< 1321223603 829567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The two most human things!
< 1321223610 979745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, *stealing cake
< 1321223614 650906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids, don't eat solder. It makes you look stupid.
< 1321223617 77592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a heist!
< 1321223618 663772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :excrement unto;
< 1321223620 307246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's not stealing if it's cake.
< 1321223627 314507 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well maybe.
< 1321223655 201175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I'm ~not part of the maths department~ now, i.e. they don't like me very much.
< 1321223661 509880 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We haven't had a cake day in Latin for a while.
< 1321223675 510068 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 6 of us, includin the teacher
< 1321223687 397724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I got kicked out of my old school the year before we started having Latin cake days.
< 1321223691 180389 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cake I generally bring is enough for 16
< 1321223700 34992 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, :'(
< 1321223715 771960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is the one I wounded someone with a spoon at.)
< 1321223718 773250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is because you killed someone with a spoon and then stole some cake.
< 1321223747 183291 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you cloned yourself and your clone kicked someone in the face.
< 1321223751 718393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321223758 996186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not one to talk
< 1321223789 674703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: They /banned you/ for that?
< 1321223798 751726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, I was doing nothing of any use to anyone.
< 1321223821 439430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't that bothered, frankly; I got to muck around in the library instead.
< 1321223832 76211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WOULD NEVER HAVE MET APT GUY IF THEY HADN'T
< 1321223854 947700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, you cloned yourself and your clone kicked someone in the face. <--- now I have a huge urge to get ais523_ to log on and kick you
< 1321223869 362328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not at work, and it'd take a while to get there to get ais523_ online
< 1321224466 347703 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ancient history class has two people called Theo
< 1321224478 152925 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But none called Telemachus
< 1321224492 270807 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321224511 428961 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever have a son, I'll call him Telemachus, or Mac for short
< 1321224563 39816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could connect twice from the same computer
< 1321224584 21284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, better than elliott's choice.
< 1321224585 199942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but then it wouldn't be ais523_
< 1321224588 653324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just be me using the wrong nick
< 1321224590 163468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's 'Azimuth'.)
< 1321224592 461845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ...
< 1321224594 605365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's not even a name.)
< 1321224595 985053 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321224634 109466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *…
< 1321224647 356971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION -> sleep
< 1321224648 717370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321224663 152205 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321224663 197707 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321224663 197845 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321224908 430710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm actually managing to make something out of this skyrim panorama I think
< 1321224914 65307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked around the HDR issue mostly
< 1321225049 627376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ngevd, I got kicked out of my old school the year before we started having Latin cake days. <-- so what is "cake day" in latin?
< 1321225066 907996 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I know this...
< 1321225086 900105 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321225143 354273 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321225174 670570 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dies placentis
< 1321225200 915697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321225231 962283 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :PlacentaProphet
< 1321225253 626461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321225256 350460 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321225281 834787 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks
< 1321225284 815274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: eww
< 1321225305 27177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: heh, I was wondering who'd assume that that was targeted at them
< 1321225308 395037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1321225312 493654 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has come a long way from Latin
< 1321225317 636933 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in the wrong direction
< 1321225364 704872 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that that" is the best construction of English.
< 1321225400 952594 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet, is the fully English language version of you a prophet that is a cake, one who prophesizes about cake, or something else
< 1321225406 291512 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321225410 349664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should totally debug my Python code!!!
< 1321225417 353899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame Gregor.
< 1321225420 246082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no PlacentaProphet you do it.
< 1321225427 542907 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I wasn't aware I had differing localizations.
< 1321225434 985819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's someone who prophesizes about a cake that makes you think you are a cake.  i assume.
< 1321225459 84877 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case the former would be ProphetCake
< 1321225473 181725 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you want placentarumPropheta
< 1321225486 118866 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I want PlacentaProphet
< 1321225490 330362 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is still English.
< 1321225500 77258 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just using a Latin loanword.
< 1321225502 486797 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES BUT IT IS ALSO INCORRECT LATIN
< 1321225509 29980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO LATIN LOAN WORDS
< 1321225531 87210 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in much the same way that "lo siento" is incorrect English.
< 1321225542 689434 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Placenta Prophet is also incorrect Latin.
< 1321225571 350792 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT IS ONE LETTER OFF CORRECT LATIN
< 1321225604 239965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It translates as flat cake. It isn't cake like you think of birthday cake today. A better translation would be flat bread."
< 1321225618 569349 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- some dude on the Internet?
< 1321225626 508374 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like stottie cake?
< 1321225627 533053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100906064119AAICqB3
< 1321225633 19004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah
< 1321225643 824845 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yeah, that makes sense historically.
< 1321225661 626662 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like stottie cake
< 1321225667 38399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: FIX MY C;ODEK
< 1321225674 575131 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sauce plz
< 1321225695 923250 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will put my delicious placentas to work.
< 1321225718 257305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet:
< 1321225719 884913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/raw/d135b69e88f1/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd
< 1321225720 319687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/raw/d135b69e88f1/multibot_cmds/lib/server
< 1321225732 413475 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my python
< 1321225738 195427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :b
< 1321225743 848695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1321225745 821830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore that
< 1321225748 936656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes the server gets messages that look like [] or ['#channel'] for no obvious reason
< 1321225756 715651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite the fact that no other messages are cut off or whatever
< 1321225758 311176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix plz thanks
< 1321225764 426221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :['#esoteric']
< 1321225766 907277 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame dynamic typing. brb food then I'll look.
< 1321225855 325271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The server server (i.e. lib/server) :P
< 1321225931 625919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION /quote ['#esoteric']
< 1321225947 507183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I actually did that)
< 1321225975 275648 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakehead
< 1321225982 895233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good grammar
< 1321225994 18465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321226000 229110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hi
< 1321226009 432621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should send that to other random servers for a while
< 1321226032 77431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321226034 20275 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321226040 208327 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: data = server.recv(4096).split('\0')  #here?
< 1321226050 309773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is seeing people who aren't here.
< 1321226060 90813 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rude
< 1321226061 713776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, I just decided that if I did it randomly for a while
< 1321226067 641937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: Yes, that is indeed the part that receives shit :P
< 1321226074 477412 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321226075 661587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when I did it to people who have been here for ages and I just didn't notice, nobody would notice /me/ doing it
< 1321226076 347757 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321226082 949578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol
< 1321226102 838113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe set up Hackego to do a welcome every half-hour?
< 1321226138 374517 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when does this "sometimes" happen? seemingly at random?
< 1321226143 395862 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321226158 455865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, usually after some other commands go through (typically when it's two at once but not always)
< 1321226205 248235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, skyrim panorama (huge image, might want to open in, say, gimp rather than the browser depending on how much ram you have and which browser): http://whotookspaz.org/~anmaster/images/skyrim/near-solitude.jpg (yes I'm aware of the hole, I fucked up the overlap a bit yes)
< 1321226235 214039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opened in Chrome without a freakin' hitch
< 1321226240 805637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1321226248 149887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The white bits on the water are really badly-artefacted. :/
< 1321226265 357888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think they are specular highlight
< 1321226266 930004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the hole
< 1321226276 176772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and in the rock. I filled it with black
< 1321226281 547442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :near the left edge
< 1321226286 339561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there
< 1321226286 816834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And damn, that foliage needs more smoothing :P
< 1321226296 186561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1321226302 442271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near the right hang side
< 1321226306 927041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really jaggedy
< 1321226310 974095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hang/hang/
< 1321226312 366372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hang/hand/
< 1321226313 222884 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321226317 532856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah
< 1321226318 358730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang
< 1321226342 341265 :pkzip!~a@94.159.192.94 PART :#esoteric
< 1321226343 123444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blame a bit on the perspective. After all some pixels get dragged out over several due to the panorama
< 1321226350 725710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, especially near the edges
< 1321226372 507210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought that about a lot of Skyrim screenshots I've seen tbh :P
< 1321226374 31597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re the foliage
< 1321226377 888767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip pkzip killed by pkzip
< 1321226381 279706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is some of that too
< 1321226385 385598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Have you fixed my Python code???
< 1321226399 124019 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea but it sounds like weird networking stuff. try passing the socket.MSG_WAITALL flag? no clue.
< 1321226418 132146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: MSG_WAITALL only applies to stream sockets.
< 1321226418 397809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you should check out witcher 2 screenshots
< 1321226444 483748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will try to find some time to make some next week. Then there will be awesomeness. Can't do panorama, always third person view so...
< 1321226456 126423 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i have python code of my own to nightmare about
< 1321226469 17658 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's not my own i have to share it
< 1321226469 734280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and thankfully unlike minecraft, skyrim has no parallax. That makes panoramas much easier
< 1321226469 779518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could panorama and just have a big fuzzy mass of nonsense in the middle
< 1321226475 122940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, not in the middle, all around
< 1321226481 649958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can hack it to make the player invisible though :P
< 1321226486 619554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, you would get parallax
< 1321226493 972391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like shamarallax
< 1321226495 736181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because the camera rotates around a point outside of it
< 1321226520 863755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh a new list of ideas entry
< 1321226523 889378 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting
< 1321226523 973295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, http://deadendthrills.com/ have been doing a bunch of Skyrim posts and they look unreasonably good.
< 1321226534 303686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway there is a lot of details that won't be visible in static screenshots. Like how plants move in the wind
< 1321226543 868432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note to everybody: Do not click unless you want to feel inadequate about your hardware, whatever hardware you have :P)
< 1321226557 124565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in oblivion that looked really faked. It looks kind of okay in Skyrim. It looks utterly awesome in Witcher 2
< 1321226570 332560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does that apply even to me? my hardware's typically so bad that seeing better hardware doesn't make me feel inadequate about it
< 1321226582 476843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is that site about?
< 1321226596 405324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You might want to downgrade to a sock to be safe
< 1321226608 69304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's, like, video game photography.
< 1321226646 736349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I can play Skyrim on ultra. I can play Witcher 2 on ultra except for the supersampling option. I don't see how I could feel inadequate about my hardware here.
< 1321226652 301634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy mods up the games to hell and back again to get the best graphics he possibly can, runs them at 2160p, and use time-stopping shit and debug consoles to pose a screenshot :P
< 1321226659 157456 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it continues running does it receive the rest of an IRC line later?
< 1321226664 640902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1321226696 970081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them look ridiculously good: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6058/6233836408_00ef719628_b.jpg, http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6185/6147515320_689b9546f9_b.jpg
< 1321226698 866848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are already some HD Skyrim mods. And the official modding tools are not yet released.
< 1321226705 762750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, those hotlinks don't work. :/
< 1321226712 720700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are both rage?
< 1321226715 392371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and they work for me
< 1321226733 391613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know one of them is Rage
< 1321226736 663536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is Rage and the other one is Hard Reset, which apparently everyone has praised for having good graphics while being terrible in all other aspects :P
< 1321226750 955704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Rage has *badly* uneven graphics quality
< 1321226751 429096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: It doesn't receive IRC lines, but no, like I said, it never receives the rest of a message, no message is ever cut off, etc.
< 1321226766 282615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be state of the art for one object, but right out of NWN1 for another
< 1321226779 747143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently he basically has to avoid textured surfaces like the plague :p
< 1321226802 259088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, pretty much all surfaces are textured in modern games
< 1321226814 7306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I guess he avoids them up close
< 1321226818 56427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense
< 1321226819 341637 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it datagram weirdness? why are you using a datagram socket?
< 1321226822 548207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what I meant.
< 1321226826 739364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: Because I don't want a stream socket?
< 1321226841 82825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are multiple processes writing to it, etc.
< 1321226848 382024 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about, everybody loves stream sockets.
< 1321226849 648858 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, fine.
< 1321226850 391609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I wasn't aiming for making it look good. Rather I was aiming for a representative view of it
< 1321226858 60861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar
< 1321226866 536019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6110/6335388665_efa3b91f92_b.jpg shows the water artefacts too
< 1321226886 255538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, though some stuff are more noticable in a still image. I mean, a lot of stuff moves, so you don't really see the white stuff like that
< 1321226891 898535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it changes
< 1321226894 426257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321226920 206497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I didn't notice those artifacts in game
< 1321226920 282178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you have a link handy to that massive list of all graphics cards in order of approximate goodness
< 1321227008 170922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quoting from that site: "Why wouldn’t you assume that a game scarcely bigger than an Xbox 1 DVD would look like ass? Here’s one reason. The new Elder Scrolls might not be a Witcher 2 when it comes to texture resolution (yet), but it’s definitely a Morrowind in its art direction. Unfortunately, it’s also an Oblivion when it comes to making a first impression."
< 1321227009 732257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321227011 281389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much
< 1321227070 642725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tools and tricks: twofold increase in landscape cell loading distance, large address aware patch to TESV executable, free camera, no-HUD, 2160p rendering, timecycle adjustment, custom FOV." <-- will have to try those out
< 1321227074 172977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of them
< 1321227081 20368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :free camera is useless for playing
< 1321227089 201599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free camera, no-HUD, and 2160p rendering are DEFINITELY super useful to you.
< 1321227102 749535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no by landscape cell loading distance might be
< 1321227118 855206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Msot of the Skyrim screenshots only seem to be on http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncanjharris/sets/72157628114774012/detail/, btw
< 1321227120 332919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hope it doesn't do what oblivion did when you changed that outside the range available in the GUI config
< 1321227124 653899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  ais523: You might want to downgrade to a sock to be safe
< 1321227125 688577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was to fuck up badly
< 1321227126 654181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :716)  ais523: You might want to downgrade to a sock to be safe
< 1321227129 740227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said sock?
< 1321227131 522184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say rock
< 1321227133 279691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sock is better
< 1321227221 508108 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do AF_UNIX datagram sockets not require listening and accepting stuff? I doubt that's a problem since you're actually receiving data.
< 1321227238 748062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: You're not meant to listen from them.
< 1321227239 398344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: improvement typo!
< 1321227240 963585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sort of the point.
< 1321227244 399722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will call it an "improvemeny"
< 1321227260 609443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a terrible name.
< 1321227261 736063 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've never used sockets in this manner, is why I ask.
< 1321227264 912197 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Aeneas ever met Odysseus while they were both lost in the Mediterreanean....
< 1321227272 955680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: And that is why I answered.
< 1321227276 908768 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent.
< 1321227321 587942 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah uh... I have no idea. it appears to be happening in code completely unrelated to this source.
< 1321227327 891267 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe you should check out the programs you're talking to?
< 1321227352 917809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: I linked the single program that talks to it.
< 1321227356 836265 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321227505 680553 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321227613 970452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, according to http://deadendthrills.com/faq/ his system isn't that much better than mine at all. I think the GPU might be slightly better. And I have a newer generation CPU I think, though iirc with less cache.
< 1321227640 833789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I certainly have more RAM. He has a larger SSD
< 1321227651 476587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have way larger HDDs
< 1321227653 990871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the GTX 580 is the highest-end non-SLI card Nvidia do
< 1321227659 138592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I might be wrong
< 1321227663 245957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ther eis GTX 590 too
< 1321227665 762428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is*
< 1321227675 375868 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems to me that there's no seperator between multiple sends. is that okay?
< 1321227679 490104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM isn't really that relevant above a certain point, and storage space is completely irrelevant :P
< 1321227682 763759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: That's why it's a datagram socket
< 1321227683 186596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yes, he has a somewhat better GPU. Still not that much of a different
< 1321227708 807334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway he isn't doing real time rendering when taking this screenshots. 40 FPS at the time would be just fine
< 1321227713 962193 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah okay.
< 1321227720 808009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is no way he gets 40 FPS.
< 1321227722 182912 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the datagram is the seperator.
< 1321227723 38306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :these*
< 1321227724 337841 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it.
< 1321227725 910126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That bit’s important, though, because it means I run their hardware at temperatures that could fry an egg."
< 1321227734 298896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm like 99% sure overclocking is probably involved.
< 1321227739 398356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't matter when taking those screenshots
< 1321227768 366202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTX 590 is one of those two-GPU things.
< 1321227773 935589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't really count.
< 1321227784 943209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I heard of someone with two GTX 590 in SLI
< 1321227787 789980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quad GPUs?
< 1321227796 323975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that anyway
< 1321227799 161832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can do that
< 1321227804 966339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought CrossFire was the only one that let you do >2 gpus
< 1321227808 716646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321227823 6558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe you can when they are on the same card? I don't know.
< 1321227952 689200 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dissapointed that it is not possible to do GCSE or A-Level Finnish
< 1321228004 60156 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try using sendall instead of send. I doubt it matters though.
< 1321228019 209061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor the Scottish equivalents thereof
< 1321228033 885878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: That would result in multiple send()s being used.
< 1321228037 59538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would break the server.
< 1321228054 479272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: And like I said, /no message gets cut off at any point/.
< 1321228058 793125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all the data is always being sent.
< 1321228073 288877 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought datagram sockets were inherently unreliable?
< 1321228089 128431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fucking Unix socket!
< 1321228103 532612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Gregor is secretly fucking up the bits, there is no reason for this to be happening.
< 1321228119 490168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No messages ever fail to send, but occasionally a phantom message with just one or none of the fields in the wrong order appears for no apparent reason.
< 1321228141 484855 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you identify and ignore them?
< 1321228156 181006 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1321228158 211102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A lot of folk asking the about my Rage config, so here it is. Bear in mind, though, that I’m running the game at 2160p (at 60fps, Carmack, you beast) and using 64x multisampling on the screenshots, then downsampling x2."
< 1321228163 815875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :64x multisampling
< 1321228164 395610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I... would rather figure out why they are happening.
< 1321228164 441115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1321228193 51008 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright people
< 1321228198 633068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321228199 103374 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321228199 527477 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme ask you a very important question
< 1321228201 804789 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very important
< 1321228201 849944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321228203 644931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321228221 473297 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i showed you 4 squares and a rectangle, and they all looked like the same color
< 1321228223 483436 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i asked you
< 1321228228 185718 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :point to the one with the different color
< 1321228235 394087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would punch you
< 1321228236 25556 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you be inclined to point to the rectangle
< 1321228243 116628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope this helps
< 1321228246 242918 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yes based on the code I'm inclined to agree that there's no reason for that to be happening.
< 1321228247 475809 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :be inclined to punch you
< 1321228255 939995 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be inclined to flip you off, really.
< 1321228265 235657 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some dipshit on reddit says that people would point to the rectangle
< 1321228266 680296 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is why I believe it's low-level issue.
< 1321228268 320731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral of the story "nobody likes having science done to them"
< 1321228268 491351 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+a
< 1321228272 358800 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its visibly different
< 1321228278 516694 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd point to the PAGE THEY ARE PRINTED ON
< 1321228282 657206 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip off with one hand, punch with the other
< 1321228283 360724 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: :)
< 1321228287 613476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: tbh i might do it as a kneejerk thing but it's such a contrived scenario
< 1321228289 27604 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I suppose if you gave them a second or less?
< 1321228305 307972 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were asked for the different _color_?
< 1321228306 457712 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1321228309 250325 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense.
< 1321228325 41017 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :words are confusing
< 1321228335 580187 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "Different->oh that's different->wait, you said 'color'? fuck you"
< 1321228353 66738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: the question is whether we have an intuitive sense of colour really...
< 1321228353 273472 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh
< 1321228359 288351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, differing from things just looking different
< 1321228370 696975 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, yes obviously you would do this with people who know what color is :P
< 1321228377 125403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: har har
< 1321228381 739085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: but i mean like what with the "name the colours of these words that are names of other colours" thing
< 1321228389 736182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno if we're so good at colours :P
< 1321228401 478122 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh yes but thats a very different task
< 1321228404 809042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colours come from language
< 1321228412 558712 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that shows is interference between description and reading
< 1321228415 788243 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are more inclined to read
< 1321228430 359185 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because the linguistic aspect is so dominant, while color description is not
< 1321228438 574604 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people can still describe colors
< 1321228441 486106 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not like they cant
< 1321228452 830229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant describe colours what is purple??
< 1321228454 143229 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you give someone as long as they want to answer, they're not going to pick the fuck rectangle
< 1321228458 702975 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: its purple!
< 1321228460 878958 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said!
< 1321228475 253290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S A WORD NOT A DESCRIPTION
< 1321228483 711937 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :description word
< 1321228484 639663 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing
< 1321228484 688294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also how do you distinguish a fuck rectangle from a regular rectangle.
< 1321228493 873950 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuck
< 1321228497 1146 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by whether or not a dick is on it
< 1321228498 70104 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1321228512 262047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dectangle
< 1321228519 932195 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there any more relevant code? for example, the code that's passing shit to the sending code?
< 1321228538 14435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: that's called `an irc server'
< 1321228543 903063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, multibot
< 1321228548 33187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot ain't broken because see HackEgo here
< 1321228558 278515 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dicktangle
< 1321228571 402779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: But like I said, the channel comes in as the /first/ list element
< 1321228575 515286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which never, ever happens with that sending code
< 1321228576 674190 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321228601 460617 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321228601 506051 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so like, you printed what the sender sends, and then printed what the receiver receives
< 1321228604 468536 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and....
< 1321228606 976254 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're different?
< 1321228617 918610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't traced the sender yet because it's literally impossible for it to be breaking but fiiiiiiine.
< 1321228625 725956 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DO IT
< 1321228633 530181 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTHING IS IMPROSEBLE
< 1321228772 960195 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 60 = `
< 1321228776 289791 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321228783 537673 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 = `
< 1321228812 497062 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may make a Piet-like language with pure functions
< 1321228828 878199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python ord(60)
< 1321228832 149954 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last):
< 1321228832 501037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1321228839 43170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print chr(60)
< 1321228839 305330 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord 60
< 1321228839 705516 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​<
< 1321228839 938270 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks python
< 1321228840 572285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char)
< 1321228840 795790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from the literal `6...
< 1321228847 694053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 60
< 1321228848 619432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  '<'
< 1321228850 814618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what
< 1321228852 51086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print chr(0x60)
< 1321228852 772355 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`
< 1321228854 589672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There :P
< 1321228863 160175 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh....
< 1321228867 224317 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 6*16
< 1321228868 218055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char)
< 1321228868 426586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from the literal `1...
< 1321228872 332272 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay? why is that a comment?
< 1321228876 281874 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr (6*16)
< 1321228877 235304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  '`'
< 1321228896 788265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: Because
< 1321228898 416516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poop
< 1321228899 992572 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: poop: not found
< 1321228906 429645 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^chr 96
< 1321228906 573005 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`
< 1321228908 539307 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
< 1321228925 419301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: It's in tr_60.cmd
< 1321228944 113513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: btw what does the tr actually stand for
< 1321228951 164599 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One step no darker -> id
< 1321228957 647309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One step one darker -> const
< 1321228964 223858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : would you be inclined to point to the rectangle <-- i would be inclined to say that vision has enough unintuitive illusions that i wouldn't try and guess the result by reasoning.
< 1321228965 97373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One step two darker -> ap
< 1321228965 489774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd
< 1321228970 47398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1321228976 859752 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P
< 1321228977 526508 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been here for a while
< 1321228988 491819 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im just incredibly skeptical that people would do that
< 1321228991 579254 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking of a Piet-like language with pure functions
< 1321228998 92144 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas someone on reddit is certain people would
< 1321229045 117817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will also be self-modifying
< 1321229047 899480 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the sort of thing where the only way to be certain would involve actually doing the study.
< 1321229063 343791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And disguising it so people don't hesitate for five minutes :P
< 1321229115 622787 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that study is stupid.
< 1321229125 485323 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so is the sender sending the thing that the receiver is receiving
< 1321229128 397988 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With two stacks
< 1321229129 834649 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good first step.
< 1321229133 196505 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well i'd do the study if i could
< 1321229133 846457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Gregor/
< 1321229137 315581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\//./
< 1321229138 493252 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One with bignums, one with functions
< 1321229161 741178 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Gregor so is the sender sending the thing that the receiver is receiving
< 1321229162 343348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321229262 266753 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: long shot but fungot
< 1321229302 197564 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also I'm pretty sure you don't have to declare commit_queue global
< 1321229309 841539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but I wanted to.
< 1321229338 822832 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever lets you sleep at night.
< 1321229347 741446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late, I used Python.
< 1321229437 63380 :Haschim!~chatzilla@d86-32-15-86.cust.tele2.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321229450 919509 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Transaction could just inherit from Thread and then you don't need to define your own start.
< 1321229453 925730 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever
< 1321229479 340420 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the debugging output is handy.
< 1321229588 154076 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :command += ['-R', hackenv]   I am led to believe that .extend() is faster than += on lists. this is a matter of grave importance.
< 1321229593 539143 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Seems like a lot of effort just to show up a random guy on Reddit, though. :P
< 1321229614 102127 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, its part of a bigger discussion regarding color perception
< 1321229615 422859 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:  obviously I've reduced my efforts to nitpicking your code since I have no clue what is actually causing the bug.
< 1321229620 340030 :Haschim!~chatzilla@d86-32-15-86.cust.tele2.at PART :#esoteric
< 1321229622 52727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: Wait, wait, let me try to care: HNNNNNNNG can't.
< 1321229624 517966 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dealing with some very subtle issues
< 1321229632 843769 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, i want to talk to some himba speakers
< 1321229636 65597 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats not possible.
< 1321229648 312118 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :command += list(args)
< 1321229651 15257 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so wasteful
< 1321229653 187946 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in so many ways.
< 1321229666 20775 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :command.extend(args)  bam!
< 1321229701 96813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: args is a tuple.
< 1321229713 41486 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine.
< 1321229713 931920 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yeah, color perception is hella weird. You'd know better than I, of course.
< 1321229717 348525 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuples are iterable
< 1321229721 467897 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend works on any iterable.
< 1321229733 501613 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, its actually not very weird, not in regards to what im talking about anyway
< 1321229761 595911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: Join #hackbotloony
< 1321229762 911467 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it just seems weird that it's to an extent affected by language.
< 1321229764 46081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam it
< 1321229770 81402 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the issue is more that people don't understand that translations aren't perfect, and so relying on translations when doing science is very bad
< 1321229771 66284 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think that, e.g. "blue" would be a universal concept.
< 1321229782 536191 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, its not affected by language
< 1321229791 276290 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BAHAHAHA DUCK TYPING BITCH
< 1321229792 768841 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Okay, maybe I'm describing this wrong.
< 1321229796 705642 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUPLES QUACK LIKE ITERABLES DAWG.
< 1321229797 707405 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you're not
< 1321229807 56531 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just mislead by fluff popsci crap
< 1321229821 382207 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python should have a quacks like keyword operator
< 1321229832 948163 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if tuple quacks like iter:
< 1321229834 513608 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: But, e.g. Japanese "aoi", though usually translated as "blue" really can't be translated that naively.
< 1321229841 377757 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1321229842 721766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: You are not spamming.
< 1321229851 196964 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?
< 1321229857 843573 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It refers to things that are blue, sure, but on the other hand it can refer to some things we'd consider green.
< 1321229861 870400 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that seems rather strange.
< 1321229864 38388 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: should I be?
< 1321229871 458772 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321229873 97109 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321229876 643704 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i suppose it "seems rather strange"
< 1321229888 238113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321229893 620201 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it doesnt seem strange to me, but whatever
< 1321229925 433427 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm really coming down to is "language works differently than the layman expects it to".
< 1321229933 83039 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true
< 1321229937 79521 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321229942 104342 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway.
< 1321229952 764101 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, bit of a tangent. Whoooo.
< 1321230197 164804 :pkzip1!~a@109.160.176.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321230218 320069 :pkzip1!~a@109.160.176.204 PART :#esoteric
< 1321230280 934986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321230316 691805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321230579 935401 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321230585 341375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> odd . floor $ tan 1.57
< 1321230587 206913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321230636 672317 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the real problem, i find, is twofold
< 1321230648 67819 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, people love this popular whorfian bullshit
< 1321230658 469371 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they find any excuse to believe it
< 1321230660 999358 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some fucking reason
< 1321230669 199673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they're all learning klingon.
< 1321230675 561596 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, people don't realize that words dont always mean the same thing to everyone else
< 1321230697 569342 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? People still believe in linguistic relativity? :(
< 1321230706 877341 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321230722 476143 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: usually just mild forms of it, but yes
< 1321230734 259518 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, freaking Sapir-Whorf.
< 1321230743 304008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i got a question about number of words for snow on a quiz just the other day.
< 1321230748 665661 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are some limited situations in which it can be shown to apply...
< 1321230754 479703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, for sami, not eskimo.
< 1321230762 542601 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly as presented in 1984. Newspeak was such a dumb idea.
< 1321230772 657867 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to an article I read once, English has more words for snow-related things than Inuit or whatever.
< 1321230773 749226 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: if by "apply" you mean "imperceptably", yes.
< 1321230790 539515 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you count sleet, hail, etc.
< 1321230796 218320 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has a lot of words in general.
< 1321230801 211393 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's unsurprising.
< 1321230804 642582 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thoughtcrime is doubleplusgood" Seriously, Orwell? You thought that couldn't be done?
< 1321230810 21054 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if by "apply" you mean "only when doing language tasks", yes
< 1321230827 649973 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: it's not like neologisms are *uncommon*.
< 1321230829 843464 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: E-prime pisses me off
< 1321230846 529734 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh your language lacks a copula, therefore it prevents people from expressing opinion as fact
< 1321230849 307271 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321230850 848522 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt
< 1321230854 13480 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you piece of shit
< 1321230856 757285 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :liar
< 1321230859 145331 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1321230860 807229 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :child rapist, you
< 1321230867 282455 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a speaker of a language doesn't have a word for a concept, but needs to talk about that concept, they will *make something up*.
< 1321230884 156127 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hear you call Benjamin Whorf a child rapist.
< 1321230884 474792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: obviously in oceania, neologisms are treason.
< 1321230889 667467 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And record it and
< 1321230892 155338 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch it over and over.
< 1321230895 780016 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: benjamin whorf isnt the e-prime guy
< 1321230896 383646 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321230900 243484 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you have too much faith in the creativity of the average person.
< 1321230901 695577 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Eh, in Oceania everything's treason anyways.
< 1321230919 905922 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: even without neologisms, you have periphrasis
< 1321230947 420663 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes.
< 1321231007 236158 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understand was that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis claimed that using a particular language resulted in thinking about things /differently/, not necessarily that things can become /impossible/ to express.
< 1321231029 249649 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right.
< 1321231030 793754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh your language lacks a copula, therefore it prevents people from expressing opinion as fact <-- i could imagine a language with some kind of evidentials so that you could not confuse opinion with fact without outright lying...
< 1321231032 637095 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlacentaProphet: The strong form of the hypothesis makes the claim that things can become impossible to express.
< 1321231035 271503 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Orwell took it into fictionland.
< 1321231064 880539 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1321231070 263560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not actually exist, or be stable, but i could imagine it.
< 1321231070 308876 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: We imagine languages all the time that don't actually exist.
< 1321231074 135917 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The strong form of the hypothesis, of course, is incredibly bullshit.
< 1321231111 252032 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that language is called Quechua
< 1321231113 720038 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you dont have to lie
< 1321231116 803670 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to be wrong
< 1321231127 129545 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not understand that your opinion isnt fact
< 1321231128 817770 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language as a map of words to meanings could, at a single point in time, be unable to express a word. of course in practice this is not how languages work.
< 1321231153 907457 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is not certainly how the human brain works.
< 1321231155 62651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is oblivion: http://deadendthrills.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Oblivion-2011-06-07-23-56-58-24.jpg
< 1321231158 197481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that
< 1321231167 916039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oblivion with at housand mods :P
< 1321231171 428969 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not oblivion
< 1321231174 914471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/at housand/a thousand/
< 1321231179 516829 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that.
< 1321231187 39084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, exactly what elliott said
< 1321231190 526999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want those mods
< 1321231200 160224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't list them
< 1321231200 235745 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just wanna jerk off to that chick
< 1321231204 190525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321231205 227879 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is not certainly how the human brain works Morrowind that give it Oblivian-esque graphics
< 1321231208 870898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadendthrills.com/?cat=141
< 1321231212 338310 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if such mods existed in Oblivion.
< 1321231220 645443 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat
< 1321231225 917672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and this is not certainly how the human brain works Morrowind that give it Oblivian-esque graphics
< 1321231226 615509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321231235 737578 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have pressed up at some point :P
< 1321231238 440117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, speaking of which... Apparently there is already a "naked female" skyrim mod....
< 1321231249 527082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to try it :P
< 1321231251 841519 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are mods in Morrowind that give it Oblivian-esque graphics
< 1321231256 270999 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if such mods existed in Oblivion.
< 1321231259 643263 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant to say.
< 1321231261 513978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oblivian
< 1321231263 49502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally a word
< 1321231274 19173 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah dude.
< 1321231279 698609 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a NEOLOGISM
< 1321231286 27075 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOT STRONG SAPIR-DORF
< 1321231292 880301 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not/now/ :P
< 1321231296 949334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't be obsidious
< 1321231297 942424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need to see if he did any morrowind
< 1321231312 213237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because... vanilla morrowind is /ugly/
< 1321231313 174958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: use url hax
< 1321231314 363348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i did
< 1321231332 406963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadendthrills.com/category/the-elder-scrolls-iii-morrowind/
< 1321231334 587246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not under that name
< 1321231345 345744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no search results for it
< 1321231349 184474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so SORRY NOPE
< 1321231389 535832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about witcher 2?
< 1321231406 182149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Googling showed up http://www.flickr.com/photos/futurilla/3200260681/ only, which is part of a GROUP called Dead End Thrills :P
< 1321231416 618796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I suspect is just run by random people ripping it off.
< 1321231443 119752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently not! Going by EXTREMELY RELIABLE URL HAX.
< 1321231452 433671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321231459 733261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the on-site search seems broken
< 1321231512 239069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadendthrills.com/?s=skyrim ;; not too broken
< 1321231663 824341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now it works
< 1321231664 804890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1321231687 125815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no witcher 2
< 1321231770 837446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and a lot of the visual impressiveness in witcher 2 is dynamic effects
< 1321231780 885018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way plants move in the wind. The motion blur
< 1321231783 547780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that
< 1321231786 734828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as good as ELLIOTTCRAFT.
< 1321231795 783447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321231799 230233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliottcraft has dynamic... POLYGONS...
< 1321231805 986076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?
< 1321231818 300464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but really, what do you mean?
< 1321231821 470775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :departed parrots
< 1321231830 502845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dynamic... DYNAMISM
< 1321231834 504246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and is it available yet?
< 1321231843 541811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES.
< 1321231846 487860 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our hearts
< 1321231848 12618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only consider released games you see
< 1321231858 66233 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher-Order Perl is an enjoyable read. I can't believe I hadn't gotten around to it.
< 1321231877 689258 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a cakeprophet thing
< 1321231964 491014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no its mark j dominus hes a good person
< 1321231985 309870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kaceprophet isnt? :o
< 1321232011 793895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not
< 1321232023 129981 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I willl read higher-order perl sometime when i am not killing myself over this awful python
< 1321232031 11165 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i have to
< 1321232032 14985 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional perl is the best perl.
< 1321232032 420770 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :work with
< 1321232063 12347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/HigherOrderPerl.pdf
< 1321232066 89888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuo're wlecome
< 1321232085 96786 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice googling
< 1321232088 899460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes yes
< 1321232091 2189 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes \ yes
< 1321232097 289121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321232101 968531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes no
< 1321232103 386003 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no
< 1321232106 333764 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321232147 358899 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter 6 is interesting. Infinite Streams.
< 1321232150 29689 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of these chapter titles look interesting.
< 1321232157 162564 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1321232160 655902 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of interesting.
< 1321232165 681207 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it uses ties?
< 1321232169 663270 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why more garbage-collected languages don't use laziness. It's so convenient.
< 1321232183 770514 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's just another name for infinite lists.
< 1321232185 435822 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes side-effects even more confusing?
< 1321232197 290409 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ...I, yes I know, but those don't exist in Perl normally
< 1321232198 629401 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: avoid side-effects.
< 1321232212 143622 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume it uses ties to implement them?
< 1321232229 596461 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyone is too awful to avoid side-effects
< 1321232231 403261 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, regular old cons-lists with promises.
< 1321232263 282313 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. node($head, promise { $rest })
< 1321232327 525494 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works I guess.
< 1321232378 432912 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be prettier. So could the rest of Perl.
< 1321232393 80672 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you could use ties to make infinite lists look like normal Perl lists.
< 1321232423 630189 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. I've never had need to mess with ties.
< 1321232458 613171 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it essentially just lets you override things like variable assignment and indexing and stuff.
< 1321232487 726867 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Perl kind of sort of doesn't make sense like that.
< 1321232668 121822 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~lbrocard/Language-Functional-0.05/Functional.pm
< 1321232749 90326 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~asg/List-Gen-0.974/lib/List/Gen/Haskell.pm
< 1321232750 698466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELCOME BACK IOCCC <3 <3 <3
< 1321232760 452831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1321232768 994410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/2011/rules.txt
< 1321232788 461802 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessss
< 1321232801 519400 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crap, I was gonna announce that. :(
< 1321232803 784715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it really _is_ the end times.
< 1321232804 486699 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaced it.
< 1321232845 244334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you announce something that happened two days ago.
< 1321233073 821653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1321233122 316736 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have done it just fine.
< 1321233126 531810 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I just found out about it today on HN.
< 1321233466 746737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi can i prod you with haskell data structure questions
< 1321233547 526898 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :)
< 1321233558 780574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi variable did i say variable
< 1321233706 145234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You suuuck
< 1321233795 886943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH* elliott says i suck *WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH*
< 1321233806 716621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi you won't suck if you answer my questioneitonstonis :DDD
< 1321233812 410834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321233989 883766 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321233991 469155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clearly the answer is to use a phantom type as a monad^Wapplicative transformer indexed over a general topos prepromorphism.
< 1321234004 288487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NO LIST,EN
< 1321234014 785189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no list, check.
< 1321234016 538065 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no list, en
< 1321234032 396031 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos en
< 1321234044 573665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I want a tree map (I'd go for HashMap usually) from a small (a pair of integers from 0 to 15 (inclusive), i.e. 256 values in total) key to values
< 1321234045 38020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321234048 487654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every key has a value
< 1321234050 979963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no unset keys
< 1321234055 571154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im just wondering if... there'd be a good
< 1321234058 910390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to structure this apart from the obvious
< 1321234096 302259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that small?  an array.
< 1321234158 421956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, you want efficient modification?
< 1321234168 614925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, it will be modified semi-frequently
< 1321234173 61931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not as much as it's looked up
< 1321234192 914223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suppose a vector would still be a decent choice, but it's 256*4 = 1024 bytes
< 1321234200 562711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copying a kilobyte on every modification doesn't sound like fun
< 1321234204 246807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they are relatively infrequent
< 1321234336 466556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm wait
< 1321234336 562466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a trie maybe?
< 1321234347 302447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the keyspace might actually be more like 16,384
< 1321234377 916801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 65536 bytes unpacked
< 1321234382 228739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what I could do is a boxed vector of 128 unboxed vectors of 128 Int32s
< 1321234404 554179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's reallocating 512 bytes for each modification
< 1321234411 536957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1321234413 388717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while having cheap lookup (three pointer dereferences)
< 1321234416 745840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or thereabouts)
< 1321234445 19856 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C4FD.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321234447 728075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like it needs profiling to find out what actually _is_ the most efficient branching...
< 1321234469 197752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it'd be 128x128
< 1321234472 581906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. two coordinates of 0 to 127
< 1321234477 53494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's not really any other reasonable branching
< 1321234482 567278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be pointless arithmetic
< 1321234486 691934 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C4FD.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321234498 158966 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C4FD.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321234537 317418 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sound like you want a deque.
< 1321234545 303669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well then you have your answer then.
< 1321234561 776564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: uhhhhh what
< 1321234592 70058 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (flip const) [1,2,3,4]
< 1321234593 389012 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([a] -> [t])
< 1321234593 496287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use ...
< 1321234598 917336 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr1 (flip const) [1,2,3,4]
< 1321234600 743236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  4
< 1321234650 75767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr1 const [1,2,3,4]
< 1321234651 106765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1
< 1321234658 830907 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good
< 1321234661 765368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just use my secret exploit to hack your server to death hahahahahaha
< 1321234666 9112 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :now use foldr to get tail
< 1321234667 806043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or init
< 1321234684 312843 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: type error
< 1321234694 664872 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1321234695 990826 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it
< 1321234700 779189 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just inefficient
< 1321234701 92189 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh..
< 1321234704 197945 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t tail
< 1321234704 709106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get any list function with foldr
< 1321234705 463871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a]
< 1321234705 578064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1321234713 245835 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr
< 1321234714 426053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
< 1321234725 995882 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without doing some kind of mangling beforehand, right?
< 1321234739 739316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1321234755 523483 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr returns one value of type whatever-is-in-the-list
< 1321234760 293966 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail returns a list.
< 1321234770 403284 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to do something to the input list first
< 1321234772 446851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, foldr can return any type
< 1321234777 165601 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.
< 1321234777 836332 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321234779 796438 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1321234796 303308 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing an unsafe tail seems tricky though
< 1321234803 717796 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :safeTail is fairly straightforward
< 1321234880 803745 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure it out. :P
< 1321234896 361289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably need some mangling afterwards
< 1321234919 548485 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to say "dear foldr: ignore the first element but everything else is cool, k"
< 1321234973 817674 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\x -> maybe (Just []) (Just . (x:))) Nothing [1..5]
< 1321234975 557068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just [1,2,3,4]
< 1321234991 839147 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr (\x -> maybe (Just []) (Just . (x:))) Nothing [1..5]
< 1321234994 399813 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1321234999 700902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1321234999 868246 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr (\x -> maybe (Just []) (Just . (x:))) Nothing []
< 1321235001 919872 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\x -> maybe (Just []) (Just . (x:))) Nothing []
< 1321235003 804265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Nothing
< 1321235010 75686 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromJust $ foldr (\x -> maybe (Just []) (Just . (x:))) Nothing []
< 1321235011 983394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: Maybe.fromJust: Nothing
< 1321235013 913324 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafe tail
< 1321235025 52311 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321235033 771534 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant more in the sense of not having to post-process it
< 1321235044 310859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was init, not tail
< 1321235046 174828 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Isn't that ignoring the last element?
< 1321235051 961864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it was
< 1321235054 5300 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe tail? is that anything like drop 1?
< 1321235062 45872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no its [a] -> Maybe a
< 1321235063 597248 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :contrary to popular belief, I do not actually read anything.
< 1321235065 199724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321235069 281051 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just divine information with psychic powers
< 1321235069 765051 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: No, that loses information.
< 1321235071 678632 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's a little off.
< 1321235082 304874 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that looks like safe head...
< 1321235090 415252 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe head is boring head, imo.
< 1321235102 652761 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im confuse :(
< 1321235105 684966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: um
< 1321235106 276179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a]
< 1321235109 500307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly obvious that you _cannot_ do tail as a straight foldr over the list with no post- or preprocessing.
< 1321235109 718049 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, it is
< 1321235131 352318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the tail of the tail does not contain enough information to reconstruct the tail itself
< 1321235161 590243 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321235176 401278 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists are like animals but instead of normal animal tails they have TAILS THAT ARE ANIMALS.
< 1321235179 427359 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with tails
< 1321235182 439356 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point of tail is that you don't have enough information to reconstruct the thing you tailed.
< 1321235224 897565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if tail l = foldr f x l for some f and x, then ys = tail (y:ys) = f y (tail ys)
< 1321235245 696313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, Vectors need better type names
< 1321235257 75157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is absurd because the rightmost expression does not contain the information of ys's first element
< 1321235270 252676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe I can use Data.Vector.Generic
< 1321235283 87137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, no specialize pragmas
< 1321235284 191928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you cannot write tail that way.
< 1321235294 204371 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be some kind of list where tail does not remove any information. I'll call it: a zipper
< 1321235354 519411 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius.
< 1321235417 746223 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a standard lib zipper? if not, why not?
< 1321235424 83970 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've encountered one.
< 1321235448 341966 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see.
< 1321235488 222578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> snd $ foldr (\x (xs, txs) -> (x:xs, xs)) ([], undefined) [1,2,3,4]
< 1321235489 306053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,3,4]
< 1321235503 594369 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah
< 1321235507 434632 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipper fold thing
< 1321235565 828805 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would safely conclude that snd does not count as "postprocessing"
< 1321235585 370225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i count it as such :P
< 1321235644 151398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw this is similar to the trick for implementing decrement in lambda calculus with church numerals
< 1321235687 869919 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321235704 11414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Which would you say is more common: Program accessing locations near (0,0), or programs accessing locations near the IP
< 1321235714 941924 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 PART :#esoteric
< 1321235779 126558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip is going to keep joining here forever
< 1321235783 877055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never figure out how to stop it autojoining
< 1321235938 314788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let church n f x = iterate f x !! n; inc n f x = n f (f x); dec n f x = snd $ n (\(x, dx) -> (inc x, x)) (church 0, undefined) in dec (church 4) (+1) 0 -- i wonder if this types in haskell...
< 1321235939 246608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ((t -> t) -> t -> t)
< 1321235939 422084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising fro...
< 1321235947 864712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321235963 204265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321235974 487469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me
< 1321236030 279916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let church n f x = iterate f x !! n; inc n f x = n f (f x); dec n f x = snd $ n (\(y, dy) -> (f y, y)) (x, undefined) in dec (church 4) (+1) 0 -- i wonder if this types in haskell...
< 1321236031 233335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  3
< 1321236151 918754 :PlacentaProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321236297 954967 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't hurt to practice making variadic functions by hand, can it?
< 1321236306 152870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language
< 1321236316 61135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Stop me from making the same mistake mcmap did, please.
< 1321236316 483397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: you might get rsi
< 1321236332 420992 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Haskell
< 1321236346 888901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: let me help you out: never write, never use variadic functions
< 1321236362 496379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is exactly one variadic function anyone uses and it's printf, and even then most people avoid it, this is because it freaking sucks because it's dynamically typed
< 1321236392 75603 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dynamic typing has nothing to do with it being variadic, I thought
< 1321236408 147118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: So you want variadic functions that take only one argument type? That wouldn't be dynamic.
< 1321236410 278172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me tell you how to do that.
< 1321236413 733872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f :: [Type] -> Result
< 1321236421 20174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced technology!
< 1321236440 723426 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is playing around a sin in your world?
< 1321236469 685419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually you "practice" something in order to be better at doing it so that you can do it for real later.
< 1321236488 420835 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Oleg has examples of strongly typed useful variadic functions, but I doubt I'd be able to write such
< 1321236495 400192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dynamicity is only needed because the format string is a value not giving its natural type, it has nothing to do with the variable number of the rest of the arguments
< 1321236536 864340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but can you come up with a useful, non-dynamic, non-single-argument-type variadic function?
< 1321236542 415647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's contrived
< 1321236609 555017 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott needs to read more Oleg. Although I'm not sure if Oleg ever said anything about usefulness
< 1321236618 910458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read plenty of Oleg.
< 1321236740 345169 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321236847 811452 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not enough.
< 1321236861 575216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321236871 533167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Oleg write an operating system once?
< 1321236891 934375 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is surely superior, though.
< 1321236957 592218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a C++ kernel thing on his site? I think it's just a toy though.
< 1321236963 743593 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one variadic function I want to write
< 1321236981 529373 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321236981 574616 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321236981 574760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321236996 591607 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An implemented toy is clearly far worse than an unimplemented toy. :-)
< 1321236997 152747 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if I can, or, if it's doable, whether someone else already has
< 1321237000 703830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: What is it.
< 1321237011 710103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: @ ISN'T A TOY TAKE THAT BACK OR I'LL KILL YOUUUUUUUUUUU
< 1321237013 566000 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what language?
< 1321237014 697914 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftAn
< 1321237024 510769 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Look up "idiom brackets".
< 1321237039 583697 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Idiom_brackets
< 1321237082 418103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, can't use tabs in gnome-terminal with irssi
< 1321237087 310442 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-terminal steals alt+N
< 1321237114 996865 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Disable that.
< 1321237145 475257 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's subtly different from what I was hoping for, although I guess there may be a reason. I didn't really look that closely
< 1321237152 94986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How's that relevant?
< 1321237155 447096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you know what SgeoN1 is trying to do.
< 1321237155 648385 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how does one accomplish this.
< 1321237177 548401 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It accomplishes more or less the same goal as liftAn (it just needs a terminator).
< 1321237187 609367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How do you know he wanted liftA#?
< 1321237201 744066 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I know anything at all?
< 1321237205 869716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep.
< 1321237209 225056 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is omniscient, that's how.
< 1321237218 753750 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what else could I have meant by writing liftAn and not explaining further?
< 1321237222 118170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you raise some interesting philosophical questions.
< 1321237238 420838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: You didn't.
< 1321237244 816883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you did.
< 1321237246 710522 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: It could be "lift, but only for indefinite nouns that start with a glottal stop".
< 1321237308 740327 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do idiom brackets need a terminator?
< 1321237341 522896 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To know when the thing has terminated.
< 1321237374 796257 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably read the thing
< 1321237420 459240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t divMod
< 1321237421 643519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> (a, a)
< 1321237430 245605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Because otherwise it's ambiguous.
< 1321237435 353422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it'd be really ugly without a terminator.
< 1321237552 437089 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use or to write?
< 1321237565 142458 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because usage of a terminator is ugly to me
< 1321237579 720009 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :both
< 1321237585 82371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because impossible is ugly.
< 1321237606 763063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(| getFoo + getBar |) is perfectly nice.
< 1321237691 537559 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: http://www.amateurtopologist.com/blog/2010/01/12/variadic-functions-in-haskell/
< 1321237697 526174 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Challenge: A version of iI Ii that works with infix operators.
< 1321237709 215423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, iI Ii is hideous.
< 1321237731 914210 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+) (iI fx) (fy Ii) -- OK, maybe not.
< 1321237739 650156 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: #define (| iI
< 1321237740 344702 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that page has a use case that goes beyond liftAn. I wonder if that restricted the solution spsce
< 1321237749 938104 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(| f blah hmm Ii
< 1321237760 135205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~conor/pub/she/idiom.html (OK, she's additions to idiom brackets may not actually make SgeoN1 think they're less ugly.)
< 1321237763 444509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1321237768 13125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/she's additions/the additions she makes/
< 1321237783 334247 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Her additions.
< 1321237822 770493 :evincar!~evincar@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]
< 1321237853 511088 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how they work, I guess that's in the paper?
< 1321237860 766322 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nestibility is good though
< 1321237903 971660 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether iI is nestable.
< 1321237950 525074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Worse, for reasons I have never entirely understood, the type-class hackery doesn't allow these brackets to nest as they should."
< 1321238020 785448 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321238052 406583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: terminator is necessary because liftAn f x y z  is a legal complete use whenever liftAn f x y z w  is.  (each additional argument is just applied with <*>.)
< 1321238142 856567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x y z w -> (liftA3 f x y z, liftA4 f x y z w)
< 1321238143 958473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `liftA4'
< 1321238146 788736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321238162 90644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x y z -> (liftA2 f x y, liftA3 f x y z)
< 1321238163 224347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) c d. (Applicative f) => (a -> b -> c -> d) -> f a -> f b -> f c -> (f (c -> d), f d)
< 1321238224 429551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Worse, for reasons I have never entirely understood, the type-class hackery doesn't allow these brackets to nest as they should."
< 1321238234 815673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: oerjan: um the ones she has nest just fine
< 1321238247 746084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupid typeclass hack on http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Idiom_brackets that McBride disowned don't nest because they're awful :P
< 1321238247 921850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321238266 452220 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :McBride disowned it?
< 1321238271 821692 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean it's there for the taking?
< 1321238272 408531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well those were what shachaf asked about
< 1321238277 385723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For a while, I had a cheeky typeclass hack, but it seemed like overkill, especially as it didn't nest. She now supports a notation which does the job."
< 1321238279 712188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like disowning to me!
< 1321238297 795837 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, it makes sense that they're not nestable.
< 1321238313 935330 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you use parentheses, that is. I'd be very surprised if they didn't nest even then.
< 1321238347 624656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh noooooooo my zipper doesn't work
< 1321238386 329359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i'd assume he meant they don't nest with parentheses
< 1321238397 266116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321238441 41802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: presumably trying to infer all the right types goes haywire somehow when there is more than one nesting level
< 1321238459 188346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :inner ambiguity or something...
< 1321238533 337105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps type families might help >:P
< 1321238552 171277 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There's a translation of those things to tpe families somewhere on hpaste.
< 1321238561 314314 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321238561 359872 :CakeProphet!~eris@h104.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321238561 360039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321238563 505252 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if it solves any of the actual problems, though.
< 1321238588 543539 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/48964
< 1321238732 370990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf random memory leak.
< 1321239055 906917 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This paper can'tbe right?!?!??! Apllicatives came after arrows?
< 1321239068 952259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PANIC!?!??!!? FUCKING APNCI!?!?!?!?!?!?!? IIST IMSPOSBIBLE
< 1321239069 617261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!
< 1321239121 946218 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :panice
< 1321239137 163746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking apnic
< 1321239140 297547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is APNIC panicking, they already _did_ run out didn't they?
< 1321239173 453485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: napcin
< 1321239208 140390 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :napcin
< 1321239274 830004 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigroanneaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
< 1321239302 745738 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :si groan ea
< 1321239304 5139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there a link connected to this nonsense?
< 1321239316 524906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDyn
< 1321239317 510309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> a -> a
< 1321239320 325832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you just making random words
< 1321239321 519998 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toDynamic
< 1321239322 510417 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `toDynamic'
< 1321239323 670742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toDyn
< 1321239324 642295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => a -> Dynamic
< 1321239347 543957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [toDyn 2, toDyn True, toDyn 'h', toDyn "hello"]
< 1321239348 710622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [<>,<>,<>,<<[Char]>>]
< 1321239354 960488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  This paper can'tbe right?!?!??! Apllicatives came after arrows?
< 1321239355 5808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the best Python.
< 1321239364 304831 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuugh
< 1321239370 599935 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even talk about python
< 1321239372 291118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeps to self
< 1321239496 511317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: darn, i was hoping for some actual interesting ip news :P
< 1321239504 501968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ilari left :(
< 1321239510 603211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss him and his robotic nature
< 1321239531 335802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: anyway mcbride invented idioms (applicatives) in... was it 2006?
< 1321239545 655755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ross patterson too
< 1321239547 257209 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321239560 510600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://www.soi.city.ac.uk/~ross/papers/Applicative.html introducing applicative functors is 2008, but I think the "idiom" name goes back to 2006
< 1321239561 568196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though
< 1321239607 2373 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell have an Applicative definition for all nomads?
< 1321239628 527310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomads
< 1321239652 989355 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads
< 1321239661 649930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = return; (<*>) = ap
< 1321239677 702752 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Applicative" isn't part of Haskell.
< 1321239681 394961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321239719 241110 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's great, but is it a default in Haskell, or is the situation like Functors?
< 1321239727 828843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Functor is a superclass of Applicative.
< 1321239731 924217 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shachef, o.O?
< 1321239732 330267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this you can derive an answer.
< 1321239741 235040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think it's wrong to consider the base standard library part of Haskell.
< 1321239899 652144 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321239930 182705 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's wrong to consider Glasgow Haskell Haskell.
< 1321239961 466025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: base theoretically supports non-ghc compilers :)
< 1321239989 642281 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, yes. But only the Glasgow Haskell Compiler compiles Glasgow Haskell.
< 1321240555 129143 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321240630 601629 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321240634 593383 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321240790 752770 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I see how to implement Dynamics, but
< 1321240794 897155 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 PART :#esoteric
< 1321240804 897100 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. I think it requires OverlappingInstances?
< 1321240830 964608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1321240834 514907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it
< 1321240883 896171 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two instances, one to say that fromDynamic returns Just whatever, and a more general instance to say it returns Nothing.
< 1321240889 867759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321240899 962445 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be approaching it wrong
< 1321240910 201268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Dynamic = forall a. (Typeable a) => Dyn a
< 1321240913 722409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toDyn = Dyn
< 1321240919 233550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDynamic (Dyn a) = cast a
< 1321240951 369940 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's great, I'm saying if I were to try to implement it mysrlf
< 1321240955 169152 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myself
< 1321241007 423157 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without magic Typable, but a typeclass of my own construction
< 1321241042 44450 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd guess that Typable isn't magic
< 1321241048 626918 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Are you going to be using a class isomorphic to Typeable?
< 1321241078 969222 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only magic bit about Typeable is that GHC will autoderive instances for you.
< 1321241097 796630 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't ... think so? What does Typable provide, because I think I'd need less.
< 1321241122 149255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: With any typeclass that isn't autoderived, Dynamic gives you unsafeCoerce.
< 1321241125 198908 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, myvway would be annoying to write out by hand, yes
< 1321241130 744405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is why people want hand-written Typeable instances banned.)
< 1321241156 44934 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wears a hand-written Typeable instances band!
< 1321241161 683596 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, or am I *in* one?
< 1321241170 33350 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does Typable rely on overlapping instances internlally?
< 1321241170 934567 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321241199 735423 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321241213 718364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: No.
< 1321241220 480895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast, however, relies on unsafeCoerce.
< 1321241232 666087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And OverlappingInstances does not let you do what you want.
< 1321241233 763417 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. So, magic
< 1321241240 976496 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't?
< 1321241317 841978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't.
< 1321241554 5387 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg can decided UndecidableInstances.
< 1321241556 370684 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs.
< 1321241560 795472 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fingers are useless.
< 1321241573 784423 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are clearly not native English speakers.
< 1321241576 818758 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se QUIT :Quit: Lmnar
< 1321241585 449880 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o at Undecidable
< 1321241614 891141 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just that it can't be decided whether typechecking terminates?
< 1321241619 492520 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only type native English.
< 1321241621 856912 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somehing
< 1321242023 190887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: yeah
< 1321242052 711651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now IncoherentInstances, on the other hand, is so evil i'm not even sure what it does.
< 1321244055 629369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321244238 267319 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Haskell package (as well as other Haskell packages that were lack generated document at that time) still has no generated documentation.
< 1321244285 878476 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I found that one of them has a build failure log. Mine, however, has no log.
< 1321244511 414592 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :FUDPAcker
< 1321244948 625251 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321244972 23552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does haddock even support literate haskell
< 1321245005 540494 :FUDPAcker!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321245163 457187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read its document it says that it does.
< 1321245183 424494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask #haskell
< 1321245189 922235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321246280 423953 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If "near" is something like "within 128x128" then I'd say "near the IP"; most programs are smaller than that and in Mycology I try to avoid (0,0).
< 1321246302 884412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is pretty much "within 128x128", yes
< 1321246308 764404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is more closer to (0,0), isn't it?
< 1321246309 386455 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the swamp of terror, in search of the golden citadel... " no secondary sources of their wealth and power, but i refused. so did the east of paris. made of plaster
< 1321246373 884979 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And re. that list of graphics cards; the guy stopped updating it (along with the whole site) in April.
< 1321246438 508208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :-(
< 1321246467 751285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rest in peace guy -- too cool for this world.
< 1321247102 486830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t state
< 1321247103 632277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s a. (s -> (a, s)) -> State s a
< 1321247390 258817 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do that, it won't work and also has a 99,98% chance of destroying the earth by summoning time-traveling zygohistomorphisms.
< 1321247406 50321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it
< 1321247419 410056 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is easily amused
< 1321247434 972512 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what I pasted is a quote
< 1321247455 226588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that
< 1321247670 25266 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about why reactive-banana has no swicher
< 1321247673 498607 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switcher
< 1321247713 797760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
< 1321247794 262035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t StateT
< 1321247795 473826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s (m :: * -> *) a. (s -> m (a, s)) -> StateT s m a
< 1321247804 728509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle State s a -> StateT s m a
< 1321247805 337046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1321248275 81848 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :StateT . fmap return . runState
< 1321248478 671418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :)
< 1321250914 710986 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321250929 5443 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 PART :#esoteric
< 1321251336 830410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Djinn and Tonic
< 1321251721 936867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321251797 268841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321251897 204331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sweet, Shiro 2 has run into a roadblock as soon as it began! It's like that time when CCBI 2 was dormant for months because of a compiler bug!
< 1321252198 989110 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1321252242 302003 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1321255078 16449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy!!! What a good thing that you are here HELP ME
< 1321255126 201854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321255182 152240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I need a zipper of a structure with n cursors help.
< 1321255202 717595 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cursors?? help
< 1321255216 484755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just the n'th derivative of the type?
< 1321255275 570806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes. however i need an /arbitrary/ n
< 1321255276 114710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1321255281 826882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zipper1, Zipper2, ... is like a tuple
< 1321255287 233071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need "a list", ZipperN
< 1321255295 723633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the number of cursors I need varies at runtime
< 1321255327 747371 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can make a zipper-zipper to navigate to the right zipper, if you manage to make automatic zipper construction in the type system
< 1321255349 278809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you're kidding, right? :P
< 1321255354 327335 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly yes
< 1321255398 812750 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an infinite type of all zippers might be doable?
< 1321255421 386627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm oleg's (hideous) multi-cursor zipper is done as just two zippers kept in sync
< 1321255429 697460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's an uh higher-order zipper that keeps track of the path
< 1321255432 117831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :each zipper that is
< 1321255683 441234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help.
< 1321255744 193040 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know how :(
< 1321255805 926635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help.
< 1321255841 935435 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real programmers use mutability instead of zippers.
< 1321255876 520762 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :real programmers don't abstract away their work, they do it
< 1321255897 196702 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abstract" as in "give to someone else"?
< 1321255902 549828 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321255967 140724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Honestly, I'm tempted just to return to the old style, which was really slow but really simple.
< 1321255973 654448 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.altocumulus.org/Fudgets/demoform.html please tell me these kinds of shenanigans don't work these days
< 1321256028 961956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is still a network-transparent protocol, yes.
< 1321256069 784589 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But arbitrary computers shouldn't be able to do stuff without your permission
< 1321256071 440791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, the Fudgets website got updated in 2011.
< 1321256085 872731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Where does that site do anything without your permission?
< 1321256128 918651 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it attempts to. Or, well, technically with permission but if it worked, then it could work without permission
< 1321256169 756830 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although on my phone, I got an error telling me to try running some command, which doesn't look like it deserves to be sufficient for granting permission
< 1321256206 174842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you actually tried it, you'd see that you just have to grant permission to the server.
< 1321256209 673487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To display windows.
< 1321256229 111202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the website could also just open a popup; I still get them occasionally, so it's not like there's no way to circumvent popup-blockers.
< 1321256236 282295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to open a window is not a very exciting privilege.
< 1321256267 565295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"skalman" will be a host on some university network, I suspect.
< 1321256286 30964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it probably only works/worked in the 90s for people at Chalmers. :p
< 1321256293 483622 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only says skalman, how is that enough to grant permission?
< 1321256297 248158 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1321256309 185668 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skalman
< 1321256353 621764 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easy way is to just give the whole internet access to your X server
< 1321256447 493913 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321256602 434953 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321256709 940648 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Real programmers stare the compiler down until it submits.
< 1321256720 522751 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what you should do to get ZipperN.
< 1321256744 597529 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"compiler whats that" - real programmer
< 1321256747 282766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :'(
< 1321256946 507261 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is compilation really a necessary aspect of Haskell?
< 1321256959 695483 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Not even slightly.
< 1321256987 132248 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the preferred implementation of Haskell, GHC, is a compiler.
< 1321256989 529546 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was meant to elicit calls of me being an idiot, but I'd think that typechecking and compilation are different things)
< 1321257016 958792 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs, for instance, was a Haskell interpreter.
< 1321257017 804133 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh, so I'm just being a captain ovvious
< 1321257022 691262 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321257023 133717 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obvious
< 1321257065 37564 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captain Ovious: Lord of All Sheep
< 1321257088 374278 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have to serve as a Notifier, right? And why did spellcheck caps Notifier?
< 1321257107 88599 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by spellcehck I mean autocorrect
< 1321257145 697337 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all zzzinsane
< 1321257502 451259 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could make a haskell dialect that doesn't typecheck until runtime, essentially making haskell one of those "dynamically typed" languages
< 1321257639 458761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i doubt it, how would you do things like typeclasses, polymorphic recursion...
< 1321257648 482653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1321257653 776336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it in batch at start-up
< 1321257658 605996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically compilation :P
< 1321257679 911354 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :after enough furious handwaving, surely it'll be trivial?
< 1321257764 613690 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321257912 445860 :SgeoN2!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321257912 808750 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321257994 469139 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to open a (X) window is quite an exciting privilege because then you can monitor all keypresses.
< 1321258131 197634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you can/
< 1321258131 721436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321258133 47920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, X!
< 1321258145 589282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that apply even after it's closed?
< 1321258193 78292 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Or, well, you don't need to be able to open a window either, you just need to be able to connect to a display.
< 1321258259 6303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fizzie, about them n-zippers...
< 1321258348 662763 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an "X SECURITY" extension, though, which blocks at least the XQueryKeymap polling, but I think that doesn't apply if you "xhost +" someone. (It's relevant for ssh's X client forwarding; it makes remote clients untrusted by default, unless you ssh -Y instead of ssh -X.)
< 1321258355 936319 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about them n-zippers, sadly.
< 1321258832 89239 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't need type checking for that, only type inference
< 1321258841 406267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet1: hmm, right
< 1321258845 330133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that falls down with extensions, though :)
< 1321258848 302739 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to implement type inference without type checking is hereby left as an exercise
< 1321258850 385832 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet
< 1321258915 539082 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321258915 850400 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION maintains that type inference = type checking.
< 1321258937 204956 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321258948 340161 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> comparе "inference" "checking"
< 1321258949 973056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  EQ
< 1321258964 796706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1321259000 594220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> comparе "shachaf" "mad"
< 1321259002 203932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  EQ
< 1321259036 120523 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321259061 846569 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-208.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321259066 84603 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> compаre "olsner" "mad"
< 1321259067 690149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Is_a
< 1321259106 671090 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a-mad with madness
< 1321259184 587522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321259218 434289 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg status -umad
< 1321259291 432609 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :git config shachaf.mad true
< 1321259319 844712 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :git conf ig-shachaf.mad true
< 1321259377 652224 :LadyJ!~rooms@cpe-70-123-190-239.stx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321259401 557624 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but `git status -umad` could work too, there is a `git status -unormal` anyway
< 1321259430 201512 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad file disease
< 1321261159 885465 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.87 QUIT :Quit: cursed
< 1321261254 604227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi LadyJ
< 1321261255 740868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321261261 566528 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321261275 127794 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never got a warm welcome like that.
< 1321261425 857796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's because we don't like you.
< 1321261512 735686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, I just had a scapegoat breakthrough
< 1321261515 974619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not meant to be the one who has those
< 1321261529 450211 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, Raymond Smullyan.
< 1321261577 995522 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d93299d7.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321261585 703549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is trying to tell us that he is Raymond Smullyan.
< 1321261597 113322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1321261599 682444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321261602 415475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take that, close button.
< 1321261602 630758 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION could do worse.
< 1321261964 693174 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude what if like
< 1321261965 721894 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all changes
< 1321261967 670046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are branches dawg
< 1321261970 303020 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause they branch
< 1321261973 581903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches CakeProphet.
< 1321261973 882913 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing.
< 1321261977 119872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they branch the thing.
< 1321261978 250101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :always
< 1321262025 128552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Accept my inviation.
< 1321262027 845659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :invitation.
< 1321262051 46375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one second while I figure out how to do that.
< 1321262076 381729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/join
< 1321262104 409409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you invite me to a channel when I don't need to be invited.
< 1321262116 76554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could do that.
< 1321262120 574303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321262155 545311 :SgeoN2!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1321262186 638275 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude what if like
< 1321262188 8126 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging
< 1321262205 450237 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :creates branches
< 1321262214 203322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where each branch is a possible result of the merger.
< 1321262238 477059 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you no longer have to worry about merging
< 1321262239 541856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!
< 1321262254 285774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just change hundreds of branches en masse
< 1321262397 587678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Please die.
< 1321262469 881527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverting creates a cycle in the graph back to the original node, and then branches at that node!!!
< 1321262532 952412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each node is one of millions of permutations, you can do all sorts of fine-grained adjustments when you revert. Also, everytime you branch it creates branches of /what could be/
< 1321262536 930922 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all possibilities.
< 1321262537 67725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are branches.
< 1321262563 648219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you kill CakeProphet for me?
< 1321262571 325282 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kill CakeProphet
< 1321262576 625134 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client doesn't support it.
< 1321262580 859264 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need to be an oper.
< 1321262607 813056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, become an oper then.
< 1321262612 17953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens when you revert into the future?
< 1321262630 624186 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What if, like, stuff, dude.
< 1321262633 975962 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tired
< 1321262645 647972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: YEAH DUDE THE STUFF CAN BRANCH
< 1321262652 196855 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :branches make version control systems complete.
< 1321262657 789605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more branches the more possibilities.
< 1321262660 520216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more version control.
< 1321262687 756667 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks CakeProphet in the gonas
< 1321262691 916949 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonads*
< 1321262766 261631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleting a file is just reverting to a branch in which it was never created.
< 1321262799 647332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also branches could branch! so you can branch while you branch.
< 1321262865 971089 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only complete binary trees are allowed to represent the branches though.
< 1321262888 238448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the tree can be implemented efficiently as an array.
< 1321262894 151118 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an array that doubles as a hash function.
< 1321262917 234298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But what if you removed that restriction???
< 1321262918 881150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE
< 1321262934 148277 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would mean
< 1321262948 121377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE RESTURKSHUN ES REMOV
< 1321262952 457946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUUUUCK
< 1321262990 62768 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if instead of changesets you use categories.
< 1321262997 320505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait even better objects
< 1321263001 418764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Java objects.
< 1321263046 609226 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN EVERYTHING IS JUST INHERITANCE YEAAAAAH
< 1321263092 842248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if... you used objects instead of heritance?
< 1321263098 140768 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :バカが移りたくない
< 1321263109 756708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like aggressation?
< 1321263114 791805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOW.
< 1321263115 472105 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGGRAVATIONS?
< 1321263124 661375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :agregorate?
< 1321263175 402881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about feudalism
< 1321263211 892797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :branches are the result of a noble offering an upper class subject domain in his nobledom.
< 1321263242 540290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverting is the resulting of weird time shit or maybe kingly decrees
< 1321263248 394628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and merging is uh, well okay this isn't working.
< 1321263262 410190 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to Java objects and complete binary tree hash tables.
< 1321263322 698415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ cycle "where time becomes a loop "
< 1321263323 705532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where time becomes a loop where time becomes a loop where time becomes a lo...
< 1321263365 627182 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay what about slave labor?
< 1321263375 19908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can initiate complex queries.
< 1321263417 722151 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "okay I need these functions from this file at revision 200 merged with these functions from revision 300 and properly merged so that the code compiles and runs as expected."
< 1321263428 712085 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you crack your whip
< 1321263520 801306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copenhagen scapegoat could just pull revisions from other universes where the code has been merged correctly.
< 1321263569 997111 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321263593 329504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would find this universe by consulting the universe in which scapegoat can actually catalogue and efficiently search all universes.
< 1321263594 520589 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321263619 588265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it would just have conveniently. maybe that universe finds our universe and decided to help you out!
< 1321263622 539326 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how nice.
< 1321263814 968271 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321264212 339914 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321264212 537097 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321264212 582243 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321266035 392236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :ioccc more like http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321266041 54465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321266045 719276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad even for my high quality standards
< 1321267008 353990 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89701.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321267982 836416 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321268623 398227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (MonadPlus m) => Bool -> m a -> m a
< 1321268624 188195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mplus :: MonadPlus m => m a -> m a -> m a
< 1321268624 233545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad unless :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m ()
< 1321268624 278907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad when :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m ()
< 1321268631 110242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1321269675 641754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321269715 598454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321269730 702782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, I just set an ioccc topic earlier
< 1321269732 251710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was so bad
< 1321269748 25851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just aiming for an informative one
< 1321269757 129566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have an IOCCC entry ready, at least
< 1321269761 56906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, umm, I had a scapegoat breakthrough (!), and then implemented some scapegoat code
< 1321269762 5304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to check it for portability
< 1321269772 86294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it violates the Standard in a huge number of ways
< 1321269846 356264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is unfazed by your human scapegoats.
< 1321269849 553289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scapegae.
< 1321269865 696174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, scapegoat!
< 1321269891 521016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Bright
< 1321269893 980411 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :251) [on Walter Bright]  I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" \ 260)  who's walter bright and why is he so bright   locks: he's to D what I'm to ooc   locks: guilty \ 702)  Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in
< 1321269901 305066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, the first one
< 1321269915 882195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that first one is great
< 1321269969 61808 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have managed to release the winning entries after *five* years?
< 1321269991 393013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, the scapegoat breakthrough was what I believe to be the One True Conflict Resolution system (!), and the code is another implementation of the basic apply model, plus some ideas and scraps about how to abstract away the "pointer comparison" that you need to apply changes fast (rather than recursively comparing them to figure out whether the change referenced is the right one)
< 1321269997 449505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you use changes instead of references to them)
< 1321270020 656341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go tell me, I have about 2 and a half hours to listen before I go off to do marking
< 1321270022 858500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bit less
< 1321270058 756184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you know how your existing solution have been changes that do a sort of spooky action-at-a-distance to other changes? you include a change "use hash foo instead of bar", and all the other changes you're applying end up with that rewrite, etc. etc. etc.?
< 1321270073 246893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can correct me if I've got your model wrong or whatever, but it doesn't matter much)
< 1321270081 679713 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321270138 777443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; I wasn't happy with that, but it seemed like the only way to do things
< 1321270139 773666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you found an alternative?
< 1321270175 434047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I'd like to summarise the few things I didn't like about that first, so I can show how I was lead to this one
< 1321270203 183633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one: if a changeset is applicable, all its subsets should be applicable, because adding /more/ changes to a change can't make it "less conflicty"
< 1321270222 626288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two: it's not really clear /which/ changes, exactly, feel the effects of the hash rewrite; it seems more like a syntactic mechanism than a semantic change
< 1321270253 905690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, here's the solution
< 1321270257 361585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… I'm not sure that one: is correct, adding instructions on how to resolve conflicts should make a set less conflicty
< 1321270263 145269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me your solution, anyway
< 1321270275 154475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, not really, because "instructions" aren't really a thing
< 1321270282 320873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you apply changes by tsorting them, and then applying them in that order
< 1321270287 930732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any fails, the whole thing fails
< 1321270300 596197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it breaks a /lot/ of nice properties by not having adding more changes not reverse a conflict
< 1321270305 926274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1321270309 804025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1321270328 769676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do you handle the case of making change A, reverting change A, later making change B that would conflict with case A?
< 1321270335 84254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait :)
< 1321270344 479394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's say you have c1 = {insert "foo" between cX and cY}, and c2 = {insert "bar" between cX and cY}
< 1321270361 831446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to make a change that "does both", by putting c1's line above c2
< 1321270362 60471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a simple example of a conflict
< 1321270378 177373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we introduce a new type of change: FILECHANGE modulo FILECHANGECHANGE
< 1321270387 657056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've already introduced the concept of change-changes, so this isn't too surprising
< 1321270394 148781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its semantics are, it does whatever the resulting change is, pretty much
< 1321270396 920866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and here's how you use it:
< 1321270412 629079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c12 = changeset {c1, c2 modulo {replace before-hash with c1}}
< 1321270428 201243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the changechange fails to apply to the change, the change itself fails, etc.)
< 1321270443 505207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it preserves the reference to c2, it can do arbitrarily complex resolutions
< 1321270447 918843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfect
< 1321270513 980565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also scales: e.g. if you need to back out a single element of a changeset to make a resolution work, then you can do that too, because changechanges mirror the structure of changse
< 1321270515 3876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes
< 1321270528 231649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically do an arbitrary transformation on it
< 1321270557 652980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, ofc, you can resolve conflicts with /other merges/: you could change the "source-change" of a modulo change
< 1321270560 376678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of a modulo change
< 1321270572 613831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I have a few issues of this
< 1321270577 64500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with this
< 1321270583 12812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, assume I have c2 in my repo already
< 1321270596 836029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want to pull someone else's repo which contains c1 and c2 modulo {replace before-hash with c1}
< 1321270599 92413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens?
< 1321270603 211447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321270608 92159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a hypothetical question at all)
< 1321270610 232797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, nothing special? it doesn't /mutate/ c2
< 1321270614 460686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c3 = c2 moduloe {replace before-hash with c1}
< 1321270618 968912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c3 is a /new/ change
< 1321270619 886732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like
< 1321270622 76056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace c2 with "haha"
< 1321270623 138802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so right, I have c2, and pull c1 and c3
< 1321270626 986542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably I get a conflict?
< 1321270637 956951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I shouldn't, in any sane conflict resolution system
< 1321270655 605728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you do, because it's part of a /resolution/
< 1321270657 521739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the whole point is, e.g.
< 1321270666 286391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your head branch can't contain c2, because it conflicts with the latest revision
< 1321270670 130462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of appending c2
< 1321270680 270335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you append changeset {insert ..., c2 modulo blah}
< 1321270687 310553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so in other words, if you make change c1 and I make change c2, then when you pull from me you resolve the conflict, then when I pull from you I also have to resolve the conflict?
< 1321270718 888419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes and no
< 1321270750 675144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there /is/ a real conflict, because your branches /don't match up/, because a modulo change introduces changes _necessary_ to get things not to conflict, ergo there can't be compatibility; /but/ the merge strategy is obvious and automatic
< 1321270763 89314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to simply drop c2 in favour of the resolution
< 1321270771 643248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so the conflict's automatically resolved via noticing that there's an edited version of c2, and replacing c2 with it?
< 1321270776 694386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321270797 520211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't part of the apply algorithm itself, but plenty of useful merge tactics aren't; that's why there are additional ones on top
< 1321270856 424799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have any other issues with it I'm happy to hear them
< 1321270879 108098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking
< 1321270951 11420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's pretty much equivalent to the previous version; except that instead of "for c2 read c3", you're writing "c3" and letting the merge process automatically figure out it should get rid of c2
< 1321270996 505579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar, except for preserving that property of changesets, and having a clear scope
< 1321271000 67326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, you can do
< 1321271017 715728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {c2 modulo {replace before-hash with abc}, c3 modulo {replace before-hash with def}}
< 1321271021 964741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even if c2 and c3 have the same before-hash
< 1321271026 648789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, afaik, isn't possible with your system
< 1321271053 423961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321271077 614033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that changeset inherently contains a conflict
< 1321271110 437616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1321271112 869089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the rule for automerging with this "if you pull a patch A modulo B, eliminate patch A from your tip"?
< 1321271124 795234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's trying to add two changes immediately after the same before-hash
< 1321271135 370729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, yes; also, no it's not
< 1321271135 415951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait, no
< 1321271138 100697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abc" =/= "def"
< 1321271143 26609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's moved them both to different locations in the original
< 1321271169 57664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, you can even just do cN modulo {make it into a nop}, but that makes future merging suck
< 1321271180 166774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what if you make c1, and I make c2, and you pull from me and find that the two changes look identical and your version is better
< 1321271184 289909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because you can't replace cN with another change and get hopes of getting relevant results)
< 1321271187 80627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the conflict-resolved version look like?
< 1321271198 944673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is possible with a proper changechange: consider replacing cN (changeset) with a larger changeset)
< 1321271215 863106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, c1 and c2 do the same thing, and you prefer to have just c1 and to get rid of c2)
< 1321271223 752088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, in that case you simply have to pick one, which forces you to replace-by-nop the other
< 1321271241 496082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so you have c2 modulo {nop}
< 1321271242 328351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that can be done automatically, and any future changes depending on c2 can simply be modulo'd so that /their occurrence of c2 is replaced by c1/
< 1321271248 810622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where this operation shines
< 1321271254 621248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same operation I added!
< 1321271266 579448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think they're both shining equally ;)
< 1321271270 383661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's not: yours was restricted to one level of hash modifications, and yours /didn't have a scope/
< 1321271287 402918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its scope was "all repos containing both this hash and the hash this hash modifies"
< 1321271300 411571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it /mutated global state/?
< 1321271306 160701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321271310 175813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even worse, there's no way to resolve two changes containing the same hash in different ways
< 1321271313 111827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only local state
< 1321271315 51119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes it does, it just records it as a transformation
< 1321271318 280909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :global = repo-global
< 1321271326 219663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hashes still mean the same things
< 1321271332 957805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just changes the rules for resolving them
< 1321271341 959378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not trying to claim my way's better, btw; just trying to compare)
< 1321271352 115059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, mine has absolutely no disadvantages compared to yours, keeps desirable properties, is more general, and allows more complicated merges :P
< 1321271363 285693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm not ~mechanism fighting~ or anything
< 1321271373 300911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think this way is pretty obviously the Right Thing for conflict resolution
< 1321271381 832214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it /looks/ like the rest of the changes
< 1321271385 296040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm… so how would the fact that "references to c2 should be replaced with references to c1" be expressed in your modulo notation?
< 1321271387 808735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"replace  with ", etc.
< 1321271408 510271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it should be explicit, rather than implicit
< 1321271413 957311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: c2 {replace occurs of c2 with c1}, most likely; that's a sane operation for changechanges to have
< 1321271419 941895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321271422 732841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: c3 modulo {replace occurs of c2 with c1}, most likely; that's a sane operation for changechanges to have
< 1321271434 251699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, instead of {c2 modulo replace before-hash}, have {c2 modulo replace before-hash, remove c2}
< 1321271447 42484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh?
< 1321271457 509021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that supposed to mean...
< 1321271492 785220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: remove is delete-line, right?
< 1321271500 255939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you're pulling c2-modulo, and eliminating c2 in the process
< 1321271505 299060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, no
< 1321271508 615391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean delete-hash
< 1321271517 592439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what the hell is delete-hash?
< 1321271521 612322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a change!
< 1321271522 430317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that if you pull a changeset with c2 modulo replace before-hash
< 1321271534 79983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you want to eliminate c2 from the changeset you're adding c2-modulo to, right?
< 1321271548 964902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type error
< 1321271554 825598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "remove c2" is meant to be a changechange
< 1321271559 553836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you putting it in the same set as a change?
< 1321271597 449760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you're putting c2-modulo in a changeset; and that /implicitly/ has a delete-hash c2
< 1321271602 539779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it about sg again?
< 1321271613 120131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? no it doesn't
< 1321271615 668699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying you should make it explicit, as you have a change and an implicit changechange in the same hash atm
< 1321271620 890020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you said it did earlier
< 1321271633 713488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's in the /layer above/, not the apply algorithm itself
< 1321271634 206449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, it's perfectly possible for a change and a modulo of it to coexist
< 1321271655 400814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {c2, c2 modulo {replace before-hash with some-other-line, replace after-hash with some-other-line-right-after-it}}
< 1321271672 401770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that, whenever C conflicts with C modulo BLAH, the latter wins, in the helpful auto-merging strategies
< 1321271711 832339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that making it depend on the hash being modulo'ed seems wrong somehow
< 1321271737 944992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about having the changeset as {c1, c3=(c2 modulo replace before-hash), mergehint(replace c2 with c3)}
< 1321271739 629529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole point
< 1321271747 948683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a semantic indication that it's a resolution
< 1321271759 690816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mergehint? are you /trying/ to make this as inelegant as possible?
< 1321271792 778757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, what about this: you edit a file twice, inserting a line each time (adjacent to each other); call the changes that add those lines x1 and x2
< 1321271804 43216 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321271804 725928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I edit a file once, adding a single line x3 that does the same thing that x1 and x2 do together
< 1321271808 880813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x2 having x1 as its before-hash, yes?
< 1321271814 456626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(replace "line" by another semantic unit if you want)
< 1321271817 161679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1321271821 292100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, go on
< 1321271830 796424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you pull from me, and decide that my x3 is more elegant than your x1+x2
< 1321271843 790187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad you acknowledge my superior taste
< 1321271856 756751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think I may have screwed up my example
< 1321271881 357104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the problem I thought I saw isn't real after all
< 1321271902 341869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's hiding! :D
< 1321271909 481843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm trying to find an example that does illustrate it, now
< 1321271937 344088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321271966 597782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321272005 136863 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321272069 269245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, there's another two sg-thoughts I had, but they're less important than this one and can wait
< 1321272295 56512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see… if, say, Vorpal pulls a repo that contains c1 and c2-modulo, but doesn't have either c1 or c2 yet, presumably the correct thing to happen is for him to just add c1 and c2-modulo as written, and if he ever pulls c2 in the future, discard it?
< 1321272357 870982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't answer that question, because you're using "pull" ambiguously... you mean "merge into main branch", right? obviously it's impossible to /fetch/ c2-modulo without fetching c2, since that would result in a corrupt database
< 1321272378 443786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "pull" I mean "include into the set of changes I'm considering my repo", or "whitelist"
< 1321272388 93576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321272389 128795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that all mentioned hashes are fetched
< 1321272403 270636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, /maybe/, you're oversimplifying the logic a bit
< 1321272407 312332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the exact merge rule:
< 1321272440 76972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a conflict between C and C modulo CC, CC modulo CC wins
< 1321272453 730511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that, if you have C modulo CC somewhere in the ancient history of the repo
< 1321272460 90210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then C gets pulled in for whatever reason
< 1321272464 50653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it applies cleanly
< 1321272466 465719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's fine, it just works
< 1321272477 607046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it conflicts with XYZAHASUIDHSAD, made twenty thousand years after C modulo CC
< 1321272479 911766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's a real conflict
< 1321272491 27043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's /only/ when the conflict is between C and C modulo CC that the latter wins by default
< 1321272505 862670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... so let's call c2-modulo c3, as usual
< 1321272517 33274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, we have c3 depending on c1, and c1 conflicting with c2
< 1321272539 571045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that counts as a conflict between c2 and c3, right?
< 1321272554 719331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it depends on it because c3 looks like c2 modulo {replace before-hash with c1}, yes?
< 1321272557 905005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321272595 527763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it does
< 1321272620 753307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good; then I think this definitely gives the expected behaviour in the simple case
< 1321272670 796298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of a case where it's possible that c and c-modulo don't conflict, and the only one I can think of is when a block of code is moved from one part of the code to another
< 1321272676 857603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using modulo changes there is dubious in the first place
< 1321272691 273500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, the more relevant and important of my other two sg thoughts is about move changes
< 1321272695 760330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should bring it up now
< 1321272700 692438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it
< 1321272764 132354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: move changes of the form "move (a,b) to (c,d)" are broken. they introduce /silent/ dependencies, because they make changes able to be applied without those changes depending on the move changes. why is this important? remember: changesets are applied by tsorting on dependencies, and then applying in that order
< 1321272791 528528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with move changes as they are currently, it's possible for tsorting to produce a working or non-working ordering, depending on how the sorting algorithm works
< 1321272796 149902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I realised there was something wrong with them
< 1321272808 754240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the tsort ordering can fail while another ordering can work
< 1321272815 407975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I can't think of a specific example for what you're saying
< 1321272834 975284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you make a move so that c9 is above c7
< 1321272836 508195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it matter whether code was edited before or after moving it? or am I missing something?
< 1321272839 385552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have another change that inserts between c9 and c7
< 1321272848 95753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call the move cM
< 1321272852 177398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the insert cQ
< 1321272859 724359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {cM,cQ} applies in order cM->cQ
< 1321272862 364080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not cQ->cM
< 1321272867 224676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cQ doesn't depend on cM, so tsort doesn't see this
< 1321272868 485860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the "anotehr change" would have to be "insert between cM and c7"
< 1321272868 977710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus broken
< 1321272873 33199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "insert between c9 and c7"
< 1321272876 939511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it depends on being after the move
< 1321272887 991590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you make the last line of the merge get the hash cM?
< 1321272891 189138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you do with the first hash?
< 1321272924 396864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: last and first; either you give them different hashes, or you say that the first line is cM referred to from above and its old hash from below, and the last line is cM referred to from below and its old hash from above
< 1321272944 976506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you cannot have two lines with the same hash!!!
< 1321272951 819474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck does "replace cM with blah" do? "delete cM"?
< 1321272961 203037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right, good point
< 1321272984 809395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weren't replaces and deletes meant to have context? as in, "delete c8 between c7 and c9"?
< 1321272992 91009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with the former solution is, hashes refer to changes, that's sg's strength, and there aren't two changes to go around
< 1321272994 617084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not needed?
< 1321272999 54403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, that's a flaw
< 1321272999 105308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, OK
< 1321273005 591054 :LadyJ!~rooms@cpe-70-123-190-239.stx.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi
< 1321273014 638610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: code should be resilient against being moved around, in general
< 1321273057 530519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we call the first and last lines cM1 and cM2 for the purpose of any change that cares about their new location, and use their old names for the purpose of changes that would work in either location (and obviously, also for changes that would only work in the old location)
< 1321273072 27864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: crazy idea that doesn't work: implement move (a,b) to (c,d) by doing: changeset {a modulo {change before-hash to c}, b modulo {change after-hash to d}}; these now conflict with the original additions, but conflict resolution sorts it out automatically
< 1321273075 95079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/please/ prove to me that doesn't work
< 1321273093 649237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, oh, good
< 1321273095 622995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work at all
< 1321273099 515299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inserts don't work like that
< 1321273100 702329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew
< 1321273113 658547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I was hoping that wouldn't work too
< 1321273119 869893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re your solution: that's obviously not the Right Thing
< 1321273127 193712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem wrong, indeed
< 1321273137 76682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd like to hear why not, to help me come up with a correction ;)
< 1321273144 406873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a single thing has been improved by breaking the line->change mapping so far
< 1321273152 674569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it involves numbers, and special cases
< 1321273155 962214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321273172 303760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen the television show called "Weird or What?"
< 1321273229 934921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: notionally, I want the move to add two hashes that refer to zero-length lines just before and after the block of code moved
< 1321273230 56971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm inclined to think that move changes themselves should change
< 1321273232 144781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what to, I'm not sure
< 1321273236 759876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once they had someone say something about ghosts, about infrared and stuff; this is a testable hypothesis so why don't they test it?
< 1321273299 475030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... if you had {atomic : set of change -> change}, you could do: atomic {move a to after c, move b to before d}
< 1321273301 60316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason we can't actually simply add those, I guess, but it seems wrong in another way
< 1321273307 415125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: atomic because, neither change can apply without conflicting, but if you do "both at once" it works
< 1321273315 167549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have two subchanges which become the new hashes of a and b
< 1321273321 655014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, umm, that's ridiculous
< 1321273325 964903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no idea how to implment atomic at all
< 1321273344 733098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mark them as "equal" in your topological sort; it's not too hard to implement
< 1321273351 72936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are tsort algos that can handle things being equal)
< 1321273363 10839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that won't work, you /can't apply two changes/ at once
< 1321273363 266341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, because I wrote one for my PhD research)
< 1321273366 476560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying a change is the atomic thing
< 1321273379 207010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not writing some hideous interleaving algorithm for the sake of basically just doing a move change with a hack to make it have two hashes
< 1321273395 18319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the order of the two changes itself would have to be irrelevant, which it is; it'd just be atomic because it'd force them to happen consecutively
< 1321273406 45492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh no, neither would apply without conflict
< 1321273409 6085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this thing seems ridiculous in other ways
< 1321273415 852931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes no sense, it causes a rupture in space-time
< 1321273431 148719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts at c, goes on for five lines; the next line is d, but b's end-hash is still after q
< 1321273437 804807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but as long as you don't check for space-time ruptures until after the atomic finishes, it's fine
< 1321273441 381979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just forget about this, it's making my head hurt
< 1321273447 595958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that solution, I mean
< 1321273466 963218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's my implementation of Move, for no particular reason:
< 1321273468 233329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply (Move (FileRange srcS srcE) (FileRange dstS dstE)) = \xss -> do
< 1321273468 332788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (beforeSrcS, afterSrcS) <- withZipper f xss
< 1321273468 380236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (src, afterSrcE) <- withZipper g afterSrcS
< 1321273468 380407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  let beforeSrcS' = reverse beforeSrcS
< 1321273468 380506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (++ afterSrcE) <$> withZipper (h src) beforeSrcS' <|>
< 1321273469 262048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (beforeSrcS' ++) <$> withZipper (h src) afterSrcE
< 1321273471 249924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where f z@(_, ys) = z <$ guard (isStart srcS ys)
< 1321273473 206862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        g z@(xs, _) = z <$ guard (isEnd srcE xs)
< 1321273475 308690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        h src (xs, ys)
< 1321273477 303091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | isStart dstS xs && isEnd dstE ys = Just $ fromZipper (xs, src ++ ys)
< 1321273479 321204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | otherwise = Nothing
< 1321273547 128855 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321273615 89377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's actually quite elegant, shame move changes are broken
< 1321273650 891953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my current thoughts are tending along the lines of "everything should have a before-hash and an after-hash that are different"
< 1321273667 10891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1321273667 832015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that preserves all the properties we need, while also making creating new files and move changes working correctly
< 1321273680 555511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'd just stick a or b on the end of the hash, I guess
< 1321273702 867481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps that doesn't help after all
< 1321273708 598207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does...
< 1321273725 945607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it adds a lot of weird insert cases, like inserting between the "after" of one line and the "after" of another
< 1321273733 970362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should ask Gregor :P
< 1321273743 319479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be incorrect, inserts would have to be between an after and a before
< 1321273747 902068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a type system level requirement
< 1321273748 992554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he will clearly come up with the perfect solution!
< 1321273751 833366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're badly typed if they aren't
< 1321273763 211746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but doesn't that defeat the point of move changes making before/after hashes?
< 1321273804 735822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; the idea is that a move change would simply provide its hash as the before hash of the first line, and the after hash of the last line
< 1321273818 950127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok
< 1321273828 471381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then everything works correctly, additions/deletions/replacements, I think
< 1321273839 1030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still knee-jerk against this but maybe I will see the light :)
< 1321273873 497955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a delete hash would be "delete one line from before-hash to after-hash"; that way, deleting after a move is made doesn't conflict with the move, deleting before does (and should)
< 1321273883 314277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a delete change
< 1321273890 622080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321273900 699215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if before-hash and after-hash aren't consecutive lines for whatever reason, it conflicts
< 1321273907 148409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, elliott: is this "move a file" or "move a segment of text" or something more generic than that?
< 1321273914 47410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter
< 1321273917 547178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, this lets you do things like replacing a space with a newline without causing conflicts on changes to the line before or after
< 1321273919 511895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321273919 649428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's used for renames, too
< 1321273961 349782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because handling renames seems to me like an easier problem than moving text blocks inside a file or between files. Beside for the later case how would you even detect that was what happened?
< 1321273971 984466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is definitely a desirable property; it makes sg independent of what is and isn't a line
< 1321273978 154774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you hook into the clipboard handling or something crazy
< 1321273985 803545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the user would indicate it was a move
< 1321273991 116584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't really feel like explaining scapegoat to you so that you have enough knowledge to understand this, but what is an easier problem or not is irrelevant
< 1321273991 181534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321273993 336960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in response to a question from sg itself asking
< 1321273995 219702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, moves can be mostly auto-detected
< 1321273999 856211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321274000 5705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :silently
< 1321274016 119203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can't detect filesystem renames either, anyway
< 1321274019 731642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you just guess instead
< 1321274057 89694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, perhaps it's just simplest to give every line in the move a new hash; in that case, a move would always conflict with an edit to the code before it was moved, which is sometimes desirable and sometimes undesirable
< 1321274070 132382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the same as not having move
< 1321274070 483206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1321274073 180545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I'm thinking along those lines is, what if code is /copied/ rather than moved
< 1321274074 77483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just deleting and reinserting every line
< 1321274077 749938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, right, it is
< 1321274084 647336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: you can't detect filesystem renames either, anyway <-- well, several currently existing version control systems have move commands for that
< 1321274087 679118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also means you can't do things like, split a file into two
< 1321274089 435504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you copy code, you want to be able to edit one copy without changing the other
< 1321274091 988509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some have copy to track a common source of a file
< 1321274094 257020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a missed rename completely breaks the world
< 1321274096 454147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [...]
< 1321274099 791259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically no, we need move changes :P
< 1321274105 524393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK, this is a good case for move changes existing
< 1321274114 526326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a good case for them not being introduced silently, though, I think
< 1321274128 820064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we should just mention they were introduced and give the user a chance to change that
< 1321274134 949287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ehh, why?
< 1321274138 389970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :move changes never really hurt anything
< 1321274149 677312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because a move is not equivalent to a copy followed by a delete
< 1321274160 425157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you track copying then?
< 1321274164 702625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, we don't
< 1321274167 148904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it is, if it's done in-between invocations of sg
< 1321274167 860670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321274182 860206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: suppose you copy-and-paste some code, while someone else edits the original
< 1321274184 829439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying isn't worth tracking
< 1321274187 910291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't share hashes, full stop
< 1321274196 41919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should the edit be applied to the old location, or the new location, or both, or something else?
< 1321274204 139003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: copy-and-paste, not cut-and-paste?
< 1321274209 48187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, copy-and-paste
< 1321274226 260679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original, since it's just a copy; the solution to this being bad is to not copy-and-paste code
< 1321274227 316091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out desired behaviour so I can work out the correct semantics in sg
< 1321274233 988381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg can't make you abstract properly
< 1321274257 276568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the original" is what every VCS in existence does; the intended solution is probably "both" but I agree with you that doing that would be utterly insane
< 1321274258 56822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you, e.g. move all of a file but two functions into another file as part of a refactoring
< 1321274262 358101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone else does bugfixes in the meantime
< 1321274264 269870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the /correct/ answer is "conflict"
< 1321274269 436933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it shouldn't spuriously conflict if it can detect a move
< 1321274280 846434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we can't know if the edit should happen in the new location, the old location, or both
< 1321274283 194406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if sg is confident enough that a move has taken place, it _really should_ automatically add a move change
< 1321274319 739443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, example: let's say we have a C function that uses only library functions from stdio.h
< 1321274325 886903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: conflict is ridiculous, you'd have to break sg's model to do that
< 1321274326 532888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's in a file that includes both stdio.h and string.h
< 1321274327 676879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is desirable
< 1321274330 340656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the fundamental model
< 1321274334 707389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically action at a distance
< 1321274344 799275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inserting some text in another file caused conflicts in a different one
< 1321274355 800024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you handle a cut-and-paste + change some lines of code. Like if I move something I might need to change a implicit reference to the current module to an explicit reference to another module
< 1321274362 975858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, let's say that someone moves that code to another file, which includes just stdio.h
< 1321274377 600525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and independently, someone else edits the original to call functions in string.h
< 1321274387 577279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: please, I've already said you don't understand sg at all for me to be able to reasonably communicate with you about this
< 1321274411 444528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'll merge properly, and then fail to compile
< 1321274412 944452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your current sg move semantics, person 1's version compiles, person 2's version compiles, there are no conflicts if you merge them together, but the resulting code doesn't compile
< 1321274416 816861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321274419 544054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that desirable?
< 1321274419 989059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we've already established that sg /will/ break code
< 1321274426 752579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's theoretically impossible for it not to
< 1321274431 382854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321274441 756603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just like a little warning message letting people know that this is one of the less safe cases
< 1321274451 136891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in this case, the compile error will lead to a simple solution, and the user can commit a perfect merge
< 1321274455 822718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this /isn't/ less safe!
< 1321274472 548842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, /can/ the user commit a perfect merge?
< 1321274474 131706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it only seems less safe because you picked an example where it fails now
< 1321274478 756481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to all the other ways merges can break
< 1321274484 646006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fix would be to add #include  to the second file, right?
< 1321274488 185165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you aren't considering
< 1321274494 111480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't have a dependency on the addition of the function
< 1321274495 934330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't the code end up compiling in some cases but in the wrong way
< 1321274496 803974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough that "sg diff" shows there's a move being made
< 1321274498 428648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321274531 722407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it'd be a merge without there being an actual conflict
< 1321274534 821779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: possibly, but I imagine such examples would be contrived, and equally likely to be caused by human error than by sg eagerness
< 1321274549 168374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which is a perfectly plausible action
< 1321274558 238188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if, in the example here, there is the same function name (but doing different things) from different sets of headers. I guess it could happen if the header files come from different libraries and are macros
< 1321274560 46733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess in an ideal world, things like #include lines would be generated automatically
< 1321274568 244974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the functions in question are macros that is
< 1321274585 260158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep; you're free to help me figure out how to implement @ if you want @sg :)
< 1321274604 68293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is more an issue of getting the right internal representation of languages
< 1321274617 743914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1321274627 813351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. for OCaml, instead of writing "open List", followed by "sort" later on, it'd be stored internally as "{implicitly List}.sort"
< 1321274643 808409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should lower your expectations slightly :)
< 1321274655 331688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, we can get sg working first, then do this sort of thing later
< 1321274661 258205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1321274662 548783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, this sort of thing is independent of sg
< 1321274669 714325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it'd work with other VCSes too
< 1321274673 207522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should work on it
< 1321274679 654243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fun
< 1321274702 141211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of "diffable transform" of code, that's designed to remove issues related to things like indentation and header files
< 1321274738 790262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I can show your worries about unsafe moves contrived
< 1321274746 858294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg mv foo.c bar.c
< 1321274752 394094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time, someone writes some code in foo.c
< 1321274761 246203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it merges cleanly because what the hell is the point of a mv otherwise
< 1321274764 203364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT
< 1321274770 362679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code depends on the file's filename being foo.c?
< 1321274770 732727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build system compiles bar.c differently to foo.c!!!
< 1321274773 834254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rocks fall everybody dies
< 1321274782 446340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even /that/ contrived, you could add it in the same commit as the mv
< 1321274788 521548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the argument here's about the principle of least surprise
< 1321274793 858754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and file-specific CFLAGS are not that uncommon
< 1321274807 778865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (note that git auto-detects renames)
< 1321274810 788441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what people will blame for a mistake when it happens
< 1321274814 438367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just used hg to show because it has an explicit mv)
< 1321274836 705900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's unreasonable to expect things to always work perfectly after a merge
< 1321274836 929625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, should sg also have rewrite changes?
< 1321274841 256912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you do things like test the code
< 1321274849 737603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody said sg solves collaboration :)
< 1321274857 483569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321274861 625033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think so; a rewrite should conflict with any modification to the file, pretty much
< 1321274868 656979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you rewrite, you'll change enough hashes that that happens automatically
< 1321274873 564214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the conclusion that I was coming to
< 1321274882 737340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose someone could add an #include or something, but they'll change something lower down if they're doing that
< 1321274884 250603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'll conflict
< 1321274897 376908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could argue that a rewritten file shouldn't conflict with changes to its old version
< 1321274898 412523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an actual change gets through without conflicting, well, it wasn't a total rewrite then
< 1321274903 543487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that's a correct viewpoint
< 1321274963 798128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I suppose someone could add an #include or something, but they'll change something lower down if they're doing that <-- actually it happened that I only added an #include. Someone had forgot an #include in some project I was working on, and didn't have -Wall on (ugh), so it got the implicit declaration thingy of C. Which happened to work there.
< 1321275019 486440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unused #includes don't typically break code, so even that getting through would be a really really minor failing of sg :P
< 1321275032 163191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1321275139 138083 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321275153 368564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, here's an idea that just might be stupid enough to work:
< 1321275283 964963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a new change type: "cut (a,b)". this removes all lines from a to b. another two change types, "paste start of cN after c", "paste end of cN before d". cN must be a cut change; their start and end lines are recreated after/before the given lines, with the paste changes becoming the new hashes. and finally, "fill in (c,d)"; this restores all lines "in the middle" between the two changes, which must be pastes of the same cut; their hashes are
< 1321275284 222032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unchanged
< 1321275332 393319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if c and d aren't consecutive?
< 1321275393 802422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, in response to this legitimate complaint, allow me to make it stupider
< 1321275423 477612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's no "paste end", just "paste start", and it takes d as well as c (so it's "between" instead); fill fills in the last line as well, and the fill change becomes the last line's new hash
< 1321275462 653656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are paste and fill separate changes? so they can have separate hashes?
< 1321275495 198733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep! that is the one and only reason.
< 1321275504 868874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you will agree that it is, indeed, /impressively/ stupid.
< 1321275512 538019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321275525 983744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't even need the cut part. but you do, because that makes it even stupider!
< 1321275528 973297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's simple enough to have more than one hash for one change if required; we're already doing that with "new file"
< 1321275549 918188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those aren't hashes in my latest model
< 1321275553 515638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're special end points
< 1321275558 547338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can only appear at the correct side of ranges
< 1321275562 675406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, they're not changerefs at all
< 1321275565 612860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with just changing the hash for the first and last line is that you then get a conflict if you insert between the first and second lines of what you moved, when there's no reason to do so
< 1321275569 53222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although SOF/EOF both /contain/ a dirchangeref)
< 1321275587 920559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, maybe it should be based on adding a new "subfile" somehow to reuse the SOF/EOF... i'll stop, this is too silly
< 1321275606 60514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, that's true
< 1321275615 322091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe we should make a concept of "textless lines"
< 1321275621 438681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOF/EOF would become one, and so would SOMove/EOMove
< 1321275633 180078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I mentioned that before, and it's increasingly seeming like a good idea
< 1321275678 79682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although i don't really like that, because a lot of things are nonsense
< 1321275679 537120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an issue here, actually, which I want to explain by example
< 1321275682 796238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't delete SOMove, you can't move SOMove
< 1321275684 980245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't replace SOMove
< 1321275690 799050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only makes sense in ranges
< 1321275697 478937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just blehhhhhhh
< 1321275732 313759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose that the code initially starts "a b c d e f g"; I edit it to "a b e f c d g", then again to "a b e f h c d g"; meanwhile, you edit it to "a b i c d e f g"
< 1321275737 820240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should be the correct result after merging?
< 1321275757 940894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is each word a line?
< 1321275762 353156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321275791 944441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, let's try duplicating this so my brain gets it
< 1321275796 631294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg
< 1321275801 668899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa bbb eee fff ccc ddd ggg
< 1321275807 710892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa bbb eee fff hhh ccc ddd ggg
< 1321275814 119645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa bbb iii ccc dd eee ff gg
< 1321275823 929195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the second-last line being longer intentional?
< 1321275831 485375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321275835 748204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the last is also longer
< 1321275839 340405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just typoed it shorter
< 1321275845 676051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321275846 378922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa bbb iii ccc ddd eee fff ggg
< 1321275886 905266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321275895 313248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't get my brain to parse these letters properly :P
< 1321275934 846155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspect the answer is "conflict, but a practical system will duplicate c"
< 1321276098 463844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i dunno
< 1321276104 889200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think the correct answer is "conflict no matter what", as there are three plausible locations for i in the result
< 1321276122 2290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I mean, it should conflict, but there's no reasonable way for the system to conflict
< 1321276123 584185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like i said
< 1321276127 601971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a hard time parsing it
< 1321276137 921676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:05]  ais523: I suspect the answer is "conflict, but a practical system will duplicate c"
< 1321276139 252728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:05]  actually, I think the correct answer is "conflict no matter what", as there are three plausible locations for i in the result
< 1321276151 936528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?
< 1321276163 877601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did it reconnect all by itself?
< 1321276168 664509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a network outage for a couple of minutes there
< 1321276177 790630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : argh
< 1321276177 927736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i can't get my brain to parse these letters properly :P
< 1321276177 973738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I suspect the answer is "conflict, but a practical system will duplicate c"
< 1321276178 19154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: but i dunno
< 1321276178 19316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually, I think the correct answer is "conflict no matter what", as there are three plausible locations for i in the result
< 1321276179 341767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: no, I mean, it should conflict, but there's no reasonable way for the system to conflict
< 1321276182 239100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : but like i said
< 1321276184 325122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i had a hard time parsing it
< 1321276199 204064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but misspelled /reconnect
< 1321276199 307566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems that the IRC system figured it out on its own
< 1321276225 549816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321276234 719968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think a move change itself should be "move from a to b between c and d to between e and f"
< 1321276249 968366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 10 seconds.
< 1321276277 129430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to adopt a kid outside the US, you will have to abide by international law.
< 1321276301 398950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321276342 538808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :observed during spam cleanup
< 1321276381 728907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our spambots are great :)
< 1321276393 591259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should give them a special place on the wiki to donate their works
< 1321276452 783164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't we have a captcha thingy?
< 1321276477 992326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes for anon edits
< 1321276480 391407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for link edits
< 1321276483 189399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a really bad captcha
< 1321276508 443670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have for account creation too
< 1321276556 95895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do
< 1321276566 718536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spambot we've been getting lately knows how to break it
< 1321276579 608279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bots!!! they're people too!!
< 1321276609 770116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, need a more advanced captcha then
< 1321276621 770120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's hard to persaude Graue to change it round
< 1321276627 251032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321276638 410723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious fix to the current spam surge is requiring someone's first edit to be made outside userspace
< 1321276649 438353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321276654 231342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a trivial requirement for a human to obey (they can just edit the sandbox or something)
< 1321276682 615868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'd /really/ like is the AbuseFilter extension, so I don't have to bug Graue to change the settings each time there's a new spambot attack
< 1321276693 363984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure it'd be compatible with the version of MediaWiki used on Esolang
< 1321276705 513895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so time to update mediawiki then?
< 1321276710 548826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should really just require email confirmation of registrations. Nobody but zzo would mind. :p
< 1321276721 820124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :he would mind?
< 1321276728 244531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if the spambots could do that too
< 1321276740 307707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo doesn't have an email address, and doesn't like having to use an email address to do things.
< 1321276755 793234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just allow confirmation over gopher too
< 1321276757 254906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd be fine
< 1321276764 399706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't...?
< 1321276817 654289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why are you acting surprised?
< 1321276847 480637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is a major impairment. When you are looking for jobs people usually ask you to email your CV and so on.
< 1321276854 459737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how old zzo was
< 1321276860 941935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is no problem to him
< 1321276928 246709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's trivial to email someone your CV without an email address
< 1321276935 94035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is receiving, not sending
< 1321276957 782809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you usually get replies by email too
< 1321276976 38781 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321278153 231109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | "Wittgenstein and Turing similarly agreed that it’s bad for a bridge to fall and kill people." | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321278737 108186 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321278760 907295 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi again everyone
< 1321278832 622540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321279103 145756 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I'm reading through the solutions to "sort by first occurrence"
< 1321279117 984442 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the four Perl answers each used a different algo
< 1321279188 776332 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get why the first one works at all, actually (I can mentally work through what it does but it seems it'd produce the wrong answer, so I think I'm missing something)
< 1321279192 956120 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I've just realised why it works
< 1321279196 459193 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's beautifully hideous
< 1321279207 896661 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric : print$$_ for map$$_.=$_,<>
< 1321279263 733218 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to fit how awful that algo is from a maintenance point of view in my mind, it's that bad
< 1321279272 785076 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, it's beautifully short
< 1321279583 342783 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321279822 768756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's hard to fit how awful that algo is from a maintenance point of view in my mind, it's that bad <-- what does it do?
< 1321279836 973213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is basically gibberish to me
< 1321280750 822076 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'heh, I'm reading through the solutions to "sort by first occurrence"'
< 1321281695 497339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ?
< 1321281706 775351 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2011-11-14 15:58:18 ( ais523_) heh, I'm reading through the solutions to "sort by first occurrence"
< 1321281710 769782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1321281712 851946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321281723 933101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, better question: how does it do it?
< 1321281794 541144 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me
< 1321282462 619960 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"map $$_ .= $_, <>" does for each line -- let's say containing "foo\n" -- the equivalent of 'append "foo\n" to variable called "foo\n"' and then returns the result. So if you have a file containing the lines "a", "b", "a", it will return "a\n", "b\n", "a\na\n" while setting the variable "a\n" to "a\na\n" and "b\n" to "b\n". Then it tries to print all variables "a\n", "b\n", "a\na\n" -- the first one will print two lines of a, the second one one line of b, and t
< 1321282462 984872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he third one nothing.
< 1321282760 167884 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cf. http://sprunge.us/deHR
< 1321283371 452425 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321283873 872094 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321284648 319212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321284859 326116 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321285093 669729 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1321285244 966452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321285369 992680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Deewiant: the way the code works is to effectively use the entire space of possible variable names as a dictionary; each time it comes across a line of input, it concatenates that line to the variable with the same name, and records the resulting value; then afterwards, it interprets each of the resulting values as variable names in sequence, outputting what's there
< 1321285402 680267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only ones that will have nonempty values are the ones consisting of exactly one occurrence of the input lines, i.e. the first time they were encountered
< 1321285548 42225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always nice when the winning entry in a golf competition is heavily obfuscated just because that's the shortest way to do it
< 1321285813 741065 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe we should ask Gregor :P
< 1321285814 285465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321285821 764156 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MAYBE YOU SHOULD M---actually I'll read this first.
< 1321285852 717369 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Cake babbles incoherently.
< 1321285862 653178 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MAYBE YOU SHOULD MAKE TRANSACTIONAL HACKBOT WORK LOLOLOL
< 1321286048 88430 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject of a spam email: "Playboy Playmate revealed!"
< 1321286051 782009 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought: "No shit"
< 1321286192 744954 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which challenge was it?
< 1321286224 289343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sort by first occurrence
< 1321286380 223565 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh...uhh...link? :/
< 1321286410 30914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321286456 37726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?sort+by+first+occurrence
< 1321286471 9440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted it; I came across it at work and thought it was a really interesting question
< 1321286491 879636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after seeing the answers, still maintain that it's a really interesting question
< 1321286623 812469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :your expl makes somewhat more sense now :P
< 1321286638 631019 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose solution are you describing
< 1321286752 454358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the best Perl solution
< 1321286759 310550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by tails
< 1321286770 789535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /usr/share/dict/words | egrep '^[abcdefghijklm]+$' - | ./a.out
< 1321286772 26477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>jchgfbikmlaed
< 1321286782 457474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I add in n as well, it segfaults
< 1321286800 46773 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1321286819 668070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my IOCCC submission, that I've been working on for ages
< 1321286912 213469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :something funky in the words list?
< 1321286912 258900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, running under valgrind, it spews errors but doesn't segfault even with n added
< 1321286933 264226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the program's just that insane
< 1321286947 350157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains no statements, and calls no memory allocation functions, and uses no VLAs
< 1321286947 900404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321286959 116132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR SUMMARY: 15475827 errors from 15 contexts (suppressed: 12 from 7)
< 1321286962 439913 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do when it works
< 1321286977 783036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculates the winner of a Single Transferable Vote election to elect one candidate
< 1321286988 56862 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321287073 518629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I think it's segfaulting due to exhausting memory
< 1321287137 512988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I need to remember how this program actually works before the submission date
< 1321287303 194157 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's my IOCCC submission, that I've been working on for ages
< 1321287303 616658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321287311 98279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IOCCC is still running?
< 1321287328 824924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see topic
< 1321287346 657156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1321287813 243197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what?
< 1321287824 167187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start two variables uninitialized; if I initialize them to 0, it makes the program segfault
< 1321287867 815824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, obviously
< 1321287876 109954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're uninitialized deliberately because they're being used as part of a stack-smash
< 1321288205 319828 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321288214 22636 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321288272 167367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321288288 815159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to see if I can tweak this to fit the whole of /usr/share/dict/words into the 1.5GB stack space I extended the stack to
< 1321288339 643470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about a functional Piet-like language
< 1321288419 66891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got words containing a-s to run
< 1321288424 203441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although adding t, there will be a lot more
< 1321288426 193836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying that run now
< 1321288533 42872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know where to download the Intel C compiler (for Linux) from?
< 1321288658 239270 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321288661 588876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, compiling it with clang it gets into an infinite loop growing the stack until it segfaults due to inability to expand the stack
< 1321288706 13282 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://registrationcenter-download.intel.com/irc_nas/1959/l_ccompxe_ia32_2011.0.084.tgz
< 1321288728 549986 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the arch linux user package
< 1321288729 810541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use the websafe palate rather than the Piet palate, that gives you 215 possible commands
< 1321288749 68148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321288755 696718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and a non-direct link?
< 1321288764 184062 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Somewhere there http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-compilers/
< 1321288773 567037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1321289037 163348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321290307 550801 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321291154 750386 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1321291158 826135 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of IOCCC ....
< 1321291169 851237 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sopio is a fun game
< 1321291171 886197 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have a tweetable interpreter for a near-TC programming language ...
< 1321291184 126638 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Near"-TC?
< 1321291191 550953 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what's also known as non-TC.
< 1321291193 405488 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't turing-complete
< 1321291212 10489 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Exactly
< 1321291217 272607 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: See: Ngevd
< 1321291219 223263 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a point of contention, arguably.
< 1321291240 3628 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is conceptually TC, but since the interpreter is its definition, it's not.
< 1321291300 4675 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not, in fact, a compliant interpreter?
< 1321291308 347879 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :char*a,b[9999];main(){gets(a=b);while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];puts(b);}
< 1321291321 288451 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling it non-compliant makes no sense, the language is defined by the interpreter.
< 1321291335 172813 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait
< 1321291335 776419 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not TC?
< 1321291337 832717 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the wrong one ...
< 1321291344 436487 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord you're stupid
< 1321291348 170840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's over-specified
< 1321291361 252896 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9<<20],*a=b;main(){while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);for(a=b;*a;)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(*++a)putchar(*a);}
< 1321291362 746520 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the one
< 1321291368 643147 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spec for the language?
< 1321291370 484075 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either not TC, or the interpreter doesn't interpret the language. I fail to see what I'm missing.
< 1321291376 749575 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that makes it non-TC is "9<<20"
< 1321291402 894881 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You're missing applying any reasonable, intelligent thought to the problem instead of going "lol not TC therefore sux"
< 1321291414 355521 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did I say 'therefore sux'?
< 1321291424 484131 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please point to the line where I said that.
< 1321291450 639248 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Near"-TC?   That's what's also known as non-TC.  <-- this implies it quite loudly, what with the "haha I refuse to acknowledge the notion of being near-TC"
< 1321291472 976328 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not a particularly useful concept?
< 1321291481 615807 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is.
< 1321291486 988662 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it includes things such as COMPUTERS.
< 1321291497 674234 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a computational class which isn't TC.
< 1321291501 919462 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has more states than anyone can see in a hundred life-times
< 1321291532 893327 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a linear-bounded automaton
< 1321291537 436658 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Near-TC" is not a very good way of saying that.
< 1321291546 41584 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I thought it was an FSM?
< 1321291564 313328 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSM is not a very useful way of saying that either.
< 1321291573 41486 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it includes everything from "A->halt" to computers.
< 1321291577 366562 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make an unbounded amount of arrays, you just need to define them all
< 1321291578 399167 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1321291584 593319 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually used C
< 1321291599 387255 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The argument is based on sizeof.
< 1321291612 254398 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy vey
< 1321291627 843382 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that you'd still have bounded memory if you just defined loads of arrays.
< 1321291652 749600 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ultimately, C's TCness is essentially a matter of trawling through minutiae in the spec.
< 1321292052 35953 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", -1 || 42);
< 1321292054 77393 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1321292055 877677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321292064 847631 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought || passed through the actual true value.
< 1321292219 94281 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321292455 373544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321292819 233783 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321292891 732034 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's Gunnerkrigg Court is pretty funny
< 1321292893 613233 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, either way, my tiny interpreter is about 25% of the way to a IOCCC competitor.
< 1321292933 696483 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the spec for the interpreted language anywhere?
< 1321292951 760470 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think today may have had the most dismal afternoon I've experienced.
< 1321293125 733211 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the sun never even bothered to rise.
< 1321293201 227385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because you're in Edinburgh, and the UK has predominantly Easterly winds, and Glasgow is West of Edinburgh and I get the feeling that East and West etc. shouldn't be capitalized.
< 1321293210 840878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds amazing; the sun bothered rising here and it's king of lame
< 1321293223 468718 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of lame, I mean
< 1321293230 478910 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably not king of lame
< 1321293231 880561 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it's an amazing combination of overcast and humid. There's no sun and yet I'm sweaty and it's miserable.
< 1321293242 760570 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually pretty nice here
< 1321293246 220204 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go Hexham!
< 1321293417 182216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D :D :D right?
< 1321293470 763530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right D:
< 1321293478 836961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im hexjealous
< 1321293513 857298 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless by pretty nice you meant warm and blue skies; I hate that
< 1321293522 907344 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cold and blue
< 1321293525 94511 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brisk
< 1321293528 483239 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autumnal
< 1321293534 732961 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Novembry
< 1321293534 853700 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty nice
< 1321293556 608945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to turn on the fan to get the cold but once I do it's fine
< 1321293629 363199 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh dinner
< 1321293634 314190 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: FOOD
< 1321294350 448560 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that sounds amazing; the sun bothered rising here and it's king of lame
< 1321294357 612150 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono, the sun *rose*.
< 1321294406 891031 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that by 3 o'clock or so, heavy cloud cover and school lighting conspired to make the single most depressing light level physically possible.
< 1321294433 914434 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night would have been *welcome*; instead, there was just this pervasive greyness everywhere.
< 1321294448 480826 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321294475 910920 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Novembry
< 1321294492 107785 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've had about two days like that, which is a pity because they're my second favourite.
< 1321294545 139368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Americans did not lose their British accents. Rather, the British gained their accents in the last few hundred years, thanks in part to public (private) schools teaching children "received pronunciation."
< 1321294560 964216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jerks, horribly disfiguring a nation's speech for no reason.
< 1321294580 163226 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*English, I think you'll find, although I have an RP accent for reasons unclear to basically everyone.
< 1321294601 812509 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's especially odd since he's Flemish.
< 1321294605 299803 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321294647 774824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross.
< 1321294716 382649 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321294761 72109 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I have an almost non-existent accent despite being a southern American.
< 1321294775 898682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably similar to midwest accent.
< 1321294784 112842 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with some southern peculiarities.
< 1321294817 850473 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise that over here you'd have an accent, right?
< 1321294824 814123 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Non-existent accent" is an artificial concept.
< 1321294852 279147 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One propagated primarily by people with one of the most fringe accents in existence ...
< 1321294862 231453 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.?
< 1321294866 123808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: uh, duh?
< 1321294866 169384 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA
< 1321294881 523538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean /literally/ that I have no accent, for fucks sake
< 1321294882 381247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1321294887 15765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a southern accent.
< 1321294888 747380 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know
< 1321294892 560213 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the region I'm from.
< 1321294898 403751 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you usually get your accents from.
< 1321294926 588709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phonetician Jack Windsor Lewis frequently criticises the name "Received Pronunciation" on his blog: he has called it "invidious",[20] a "ridiculously archaic, parochial and question-begging term"[21] and argued that American scholars find the term "quite curious".[22] He used the term "General British" [to parallel "General American"] in his 1970s publications of A Concise Pronouncing Dictionary of American and Briti
< 1321294932 762350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! what would the Americans think!
< 1321294939 902652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they think it's silly!
< 1321294955 755463 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm from the west coast, and yet my accent is practically identical to those from Indiana! AMAZING
< 1321294975 929816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes clearly we both have fucking super powers.
< 1321294980 694458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be no other way
< 1321294985 387675 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to describe this amazing mutation.
< 1321295028 685110 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also I went to a foreign country once and I could understand them, just like they were speaking the same language. It's like I have a natural born ability to speak and understand Canadian without even knowing it.
< 1321295042 891789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah dude.
< 1321295059 472960 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see when I hear English people talk it just sounds like a bunch of jerks.
< 1321295072 219574 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't understand anything, I'm too distracted by the douchebaggery.
< 1321295094 554273 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHIM-CHIMINEE-CHIM-CHIMINEE-THIS-IS-'OW-OLL-BRITONS-TOKK
< 1321295177 766460 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, nobody's going to smack me for that?
< 1321295187 348068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's completely accurate.
< 1321295205 184864 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish I actually had a Scottish accent.
< 1321295214 108489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scottish accent sounds nice.
< 1321295215 443980 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, a rhotic one.
< 1321295218 637796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irish too.
< 1321295257 784857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to visit Scotland and Ireland, but thinks England is for JERKS.
< 1321295266 377329 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout Wales?
< 1321295277 751868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no opinion of things on ISLANDS, sheesh
< 1321295286 211193 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how trivial.
< 1321295290 373832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :................
< 1321295292 950436 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be surrounded by water.
< 1321295296 391933 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...
< 1321295297 404364 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................................
< 1321295298 87702 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet
< 1321295299 412672 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you
< 1321295300 849791 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X
< 1321295301 759245 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even know
< 1321295305 818881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :know what?
< 1321295306 24212 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the UK is shaped
< 1321295314 95424 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's shaped like a sake of potatos.
< 1321295316 317006 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sack
< 1321295320 283792 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesyesyes
< 1321295320 878486 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321295322 655308 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know
< 1321295325 914285 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the countries are
< 1321295332 3229 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly not.
< 1321295336 128398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like
< 1321295339 815535 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a venus fly trap
< 1321295391 720174 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would make some snarky comment about foreigners' understanding of the location of US states, but I'm not sure if any failure could top the Isle of Wales.
< 1321295416 527661 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude Wales is totally an island
< 1321295420 514866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn2geography nubs
< 1321295484 242989 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, um, most of the people I know could roughly place most states, and definitely state which one is composed of islands.
< 1321295500 941723 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Hence why it couldn't top the Isle of Wales.
< 1321295529 851867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously Wales seems like a cool place to visit.
< 1321295530 46196 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't beat Sgeo's astonishing failure to know where Scotland is.
< 1321295547 131493 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, he thought that it was "near the UK".
< 1321295584 20025 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently when I type things they magically become Serious today.
< 1321295621 153906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to
< 1321295623 630942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other day.
< 1321295723 161069 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Seen on confirmation form for computerons: "Product Desc. e-Scan Anti-Virus ES-AV-1". ???
< 1321295723 770419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321295835 767308 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BenNevis2005.jpg
< 1321295843 20663 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :highest point on the British Isles eh?
< 1321295891 939862 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that one's on the Island of Blackpool.
< 1321295922 455354 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Denali_Mt_McKinley.jpg
< 1321295925 301473 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooh what now bitches?
< 1321295958 509226 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Everest_kalapatthar_crop.jpg
< 1321295961 260833 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitch please.
< 1321296021 509304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this is US vs. UK don't bring Nepal into this shit.
< 1321296029 19416 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321296055 366081 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Olympus_Mons_alt.jpg
< 1321296109 985615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County-1396x955.png
< 1321296112 892625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey look
< 1321296120 598004 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my county they don't even try to classify my ancestery
< 1321296126 105784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just lik "uh..... American"
< 1321296165 517041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: earth nipple.
< 1321296177 198988 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our highest point is 1324 metres; apparently we lose even to UK, if only by 20 metres.
< 1321296204 234728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321296221 610821 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ Puerto Rico: Puerto Rican
< 1321296249 646609 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeaaaaah sucka. whatchu gonna do about all these landmass we got up in this shit?
< 1321296253 254006 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Germans are EEEEEEVERYWHERE
< 1321296288 416737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait I may be "other"
< 1321296291 879006 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the fuck that is.
< 1321296311 146279 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : highest point on the British Isles eh?
< 1321296324 507481 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't knock it, we had way less space for cliffs.
< 1321296388 864488 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: maybe you should have conquered bigger islands, asshole.
< 1321296405 672680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my IOCCC entry now works in clang
< 1321296414 920489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can get it to work with optimization turned on?
< 1321296429 102921 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Britain has the longest coastline in the world; it's actually many times the circumference of the Earth.
< 1321296435 183807 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ba-dum tish)
< 1321296442 853566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope ;)
< 1321296470 536862 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's yours do?
< 1321296476 745371 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, given that coastlines are actually-fractal (as opposed to popscience-fractal) that's not terribly meaningful.
< 1321296482 771458 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm thinking about converting my tiny interpreter into something, but need more amusement in it.
< 1321296488 14612 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: BA-DUM MOTHERFUCKING TISH
< 1321296495 120541 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no _way_ Norway has a shorter coastline.
< 1321296540 244737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it counts votes for the single transferable vote
< 1321296549 789144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully, I won't have to get it working in each compiler in existence separately
< 1321296556 542768 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321296628 303411 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My usual tact is to get it working on platforms that are completely distinct in three axes: Compiler, OS and architecture. I find that doing my native dev on x86_64+gcc+GNU/Linux then porting to i86+openwatcom+DOS and ARM+gcc+GNU/Linux satisfies these needs and usually makes portable code. Not sure it's a good strategy for IOCCC though.
< 1321296722 161840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, I'm trying to do something massively nonportable and make it portable anyway
< 1321296729 45036 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyuk
< 1321296738 759198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking the C standard in preference to not breaking it
< 1321296779 589077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while trying to avoid compiler warnings even on the highest warning settings
< 1321296782 122903 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo not the /standard/
< 1321296811 523743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc still gives three warnings, but I can't tell why
< 1321296990 633427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wow, Intel want people to fill in a bunch of information to get the noncommercial version of icc
< 1321297004 149060 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hence direct links
< 1321297009 497204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321297013 418022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how would I know what the license was?
< 1321297021 480099 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume it's included inside the tarball
< 1321297069 181807 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Come ooooooooooon, you know you want to try openwatcom.
< 1321297075 143298 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like being in the 1990's again~
< 1321297075 373775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why Intel renamed "Intel C++ Compiler" to "Intel C++ Composer"
< 1321297085 876374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: heh
< 1321297090 346299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have DJGPP
< 1321297096 835547 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on.
< 1321297101 805630 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is just GCC over a shitty OS.
< 1321297102 264800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even Borland C++ 4 for Windows 3.1, although not on this computer
< 1321297107 741959 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better.
< 1321297107 836075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321297122 502500 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321297126 161561 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom has the advantage that you can run it on modern Linux, but target ancient DOS.
< 1321297146 543148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this tarball come to half a gigabyte?
< 1321297151 665530 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321297153 910979 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Intel.
< 1321297225 366989 :pkzip!~a@109.160.176.204 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321297308 825484 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I still need to visit Maplins for cables and stuff and I've left it too late today.
< 1321297326 576499 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can wait till the parts arrive and then actually know what cables I need?
< 1321297448 551750 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assume uncompressed?
< 1321297461 446875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the tarball itself
< 1321297468 916050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't downloaded it full yet, so haven't tried to decompress it
< 1321297482 780324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :0_0
< 1321297521 300814 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, also, note that that was the i386 version, there's a separate one for x86-64
< 1321297533 432718 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Give us a nice `du -bx * | sort -n | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us` when it's extracted kthx?
< 1321297542 886329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i386 is correct, luckily
< 1321297568 392822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what about tar tf?
< 1321297575 663914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd save actually having to extract it
< 1321297587 111848 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does that show directory summaries? I figured you were going to extract it anyway ...
< 1321297604 859417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have to extract the whole thing, if I can help it
< 1321297610 392354 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P
< 1321297742 879671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at his nearly-empty 3TB hard disk.
< 1321297749 909927 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly a thing of beauty.
< 1321297804 796518 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick! backups! then porn! then random torrents!
< 1321297819 20205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then intel c++ composers!
< 1321297825 292963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, "composer"?
< 1321297848 753822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: u dont respect art dude.
< 1321297866 173472 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TI's C compiler for for their DSP chips is called "Code Composer Studio".
< 1321297875 327543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1321297883 262384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as bad as the series/season thing on TV
< 1321297902 950180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my system has caught serial process crashing issues again
< 1321297914 714928 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the third hand, Metrowerks CodeWarrior.
< 1321297922 321395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where Firefox froze, then my terminal froze
< 1321297956 484191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and now they're all back to normal
< 1321297961 248229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have ever used any of the CodeWarrior tools, but I'm pretty sure they have a "Battle" menu in the IDE where others have a "Build" menu. (Okay, not really.)
< 1321298061 21500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Sun Studio (now Oracle Solaris Studio; formerly this and that); the "Studio" term seems popular too.
< 1321298098 613318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the file was so big I failed to download it
< 1321298113 397883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox eventually decided it had finished around halfway through
< 1321298119 928755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting file didn't decompress
< 1321298479 948488 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha
< 1321298537 176206 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, maybe I can make a simple JIT for IOCCC. I assume that's been done?
< 1321298620 110019 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1996 august Subset of C compiler and byte code interpreter
< 1321298624 868924 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If that counts?
< 1321298636 959319 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound like a JIT to me.
< 1321298671 539353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would it JIT? Java bytecode?
< 1321298683 198029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>jqvzuxbfiwpkoahmclnyrgdtes
< 1321298683 455883 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be determined. Definitely not Java :P
< 1321298690 553466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :==17720== ERROR SUMMARY: 1099046944 errors from 15 contexts (suppressed: 12 from 7)
< 1321298699 296298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/beautiful/
< 1321298712 773693 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ suppressed
< 1321298717 523865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I should have expected s to win
< 1321298729 545859 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's just an interpreter; so no JIT, apparently
< 1321298744 709742 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hence "Doesn't sound like a JIT to me."
< 1321298757 625005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It could've been a JIT based on that description
< 1321298765 847209 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the full .hint file: it's not
< 1321298777 136796 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And yet, it "[didn't] sound like a JIT to me." X-P
< 1321298793 917752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sheesh, I just confirmed it :-P
< 1321298797 192516 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^
< 1321298849 847827 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I suspect I could make a (very!) simple JIT.
< 1321298856 585497 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "so no JIT, apparently" referred to all submissions thus far, in case that wasn't clear.)
< 1321298870 516338 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/submission/winner/)
< 1321298908 498722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, it has to be obfuscated, as well as being golfed
< 1321298914 637427 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Natch.
< 1321299062 403466 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and excluding any ; { or } immediately followed by whitespace or end of file" does this mean that I save myself a byte by adding a space after every ;???
< 1321299095 776261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes
< 1321299104 195538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that trick's been known for years
< 1321299113 824719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as has writing lookup tables as "{ ; } ; ; { { }" etc
< 1321299119 108300 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321299119 170932 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321299147 860766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use both spaces and tabs for added effect
< 1321299149 268112 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can tell I haven't investigated IOCCC too much :P )
< 1321299157 917240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think C lets you put vertical whitespace inside strings)
< 1321299452 433523 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any opinions on the best counter for these rules?
< 1321299458 657094 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be an IOCCC one :)
< 1321299474 205648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321299625 286830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a counter linked from their website, or always used to be
< 1321299738 725643 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, can't find it ...
< 1321300005 78253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>jqvzuxbfiwpkoahmclnyrgdtes
< 1321300012 696953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :==27192== ERROR SUMMARY: 1099046944 errors from 15 contexts (suppressed: 12 from 7)
< 1321300012 968531 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321300015 732784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's with clang
< 1321300042 804378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun to see the single-transferable-vote ordering of letters in words (where words are considered more inclined to vote for letters towards the end)
< 1321300197 580958 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the valgrind?
< 1321300284 669395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to see what its reaction would be
< 1321300291 217974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I get a segfault without it, with large input
< 1321300306 564217 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321300316 438065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's to do with extending the stack
< 1321300326 181216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat /usr/share/dict/words | egrep '^[abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz]+$' - | valgrind --error-limit=no --main-stacksize=1500000000 ./a.out
< 1321300342 786058 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321300347 388891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default main-stacksize is too low
< 1321300720 832655 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oi, ping.
< 1321301048 556566 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321301659 477388 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321301813 939226 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urrrrgh, I know I can make a portable golf JIT >_<
< 1321301817 189400 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's tuff :P
< 1321301975 371377 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real tricky part is jumping ...
< 1321302307 695736 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321302409 806447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321302441 925413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321302480 547524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @hoogle State s a -> StateT s m a
< 1321302506 830804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :once the state function is made into a method as planned, state . runState should work
< 1321302514 811752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321302522 491954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :runState doesn't actually exist
< 1321302527 760454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runState
< 1321302528 756545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s a. State s a -> s -> (a, s)
< 1321302542 507734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, it does.  it's just not a field anymore, i guess.
< 1321302566 77098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...elliott idle for six hours?
< 1321302579 129889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something must be wrong
< 1321302705 108173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "skalman" will be a host on some university network, I suspect.
< 1321302725 111062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish comic/cartoon character.
< 1321302871 983999 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321302882 547480 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321303018 536364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a code that does that, yesterday, to make  State s a -> StateT s m a  but find what helped better for you in case
< 1321303025 544894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321303045 277510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :help my mouse pointer's gone crazy
< 1321303049 511486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this touchscreen doesn't like getting wet)
< 1321303052 799120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*touchpa
< 1321303056 584636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :**touchpad
< 1321303107 33787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's busy teleporting the mouse pointer around a bunch
< 1321303138 250673 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Wheaton plays Minecraft!?
< 1321303263 993611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: knowing that he is a redditor, i'd say that was inevitable.
< 1321303294 882810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long till Sheldon off the Big Bang Theory is playing it?
< 1321303412 177691 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *Wil
< 1321303449 873030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a tendency to double consonants at the end of three-letter shortened forms of people's names
< 1321303527 140126 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think -1 will semi-portably be acceptable for all protection modes for mmap?
< 1321303611 658626 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Django's database half looks pretty nice.  It's, like, you can treat tables as objects!  And you can interact with them!
< 1321303621 638748 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Database interaction is exactly half of Django, right?)
< 1321303678 707985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321304174 555249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what Dja is abbreviating
< 1321304200 812323 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Djatabase"?
< 1321304273 573829 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, this is funny.  The server Django running on is called Remy.  It turns out those are both characters from Ratatouille.
< 1321304295 180077 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now 88% confident that I can make a semi-portable JIT for a language that's fundamentally usable within all the requirements.
< 1321304304 507355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Database JnterAction, duh
< 1321304309 19297 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1321304317 746266 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as everyone knows, J is just another way of writing I.
< 1321304326 147645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321304326 534412 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why they're next to each other in the alphabet.
< 1321304348 208516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERVM EST
< 1321304599 491100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is there a valid CPP equivalent of #define O O--
< 1321304607 192964 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, decrement the value of a #define? I don't think so...
< 1321304634 128506 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321304639 170159 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piffle.
< 1321304648 503588 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to find another convoluted way to do this then :P
< 1321304677 696264 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to make the CPP only process lines that start with ##?
< 1321304699 292562 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because maybe you can use two CPP passes, so that the first pass determines what happens in the second pass.
< 1321304712 491609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, that ain't my style even if it did work.
< 1321304730 741223 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you in #esoteric if that's not your style?
< 1321304740 45313 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, have you ever even created an esolang?
< 1321304742 655495 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are...
< 1321304755 333531 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :...give me a minute, let me try to think up a good, accusatory word for someone who doesn't belong...
< 1321304770 492451 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :an... unbelonger!
< 1321304779 685782 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :AN UNBELONGER
< 1321305038 133048 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, quark and martok appear as humans in this back-in-time parallel-fantasy-universe episode
< 1321305095 993749 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is elliott's favourite.
< 1321305100 125660 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you forgot the racism.
< 1321305101 110981 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's riveting retelling of DS9 in one-line episode summaries continues
< 1321305111 159408 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders how easy it would be to share a semaphore over TCP.
< 1321305113 527541 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty easy.
< 1321305132 535461 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, BtW, no satisfactory answer is ever given as to WTF was going on in that episode; HTH.
< 1321305166 196785 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's going on is a rather severe blow to the head :P
< 1321305173 791372 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it must be a ... temporary anomaly
< 1321305194 557083 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, maybe?
< 1321305220 930033 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out a way of, for all values from (say) 0 to 1024, defining a function oX(...) { f[X](); } for that X.
< 1321305226 683077 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have to be separate functions for JIT reasons.
< 1321305268 621475 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, also dude, you missed the shockingest of all: Odo without makeup.
< 1321305279 31536 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is amazing because he doesn't look like Odo at all.
< 1321305298 142868 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Worf without forehead and voice modification? I think it's the only in-universe time he appears human.
< 1321305313 853980 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'in-universe'.
< 1321305318 892770 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: nah... quark, martok and gul dukat were much more shockingest so far
< 1321305320 290315 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-show then ;P
< 1321305331 728482 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :odo was just a bit more boring :)
< 1321305335 654483 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Martok was in it?????
< 1321305346 472926 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weyoun was, but Martok?
< 1321305440 861075 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in the first scene in the office martok was showing sketches (of DS9, among other things)
< 1321305560 914432 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: uhm, does X have to be numbers?
< 1321305581 323009 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Well, f[X] is accessing an array, so yes.
< 1321305646 156521 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Weyoun? you mean Commander Shran :)
< 1321305655 536050 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about this?: #define O(x) o##x(...) { f[*#x-'a'](); } \n O(a)O(b)O(c)O(d)
< 1321305656 456610 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean Brunt.
< 1321305684 845701 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, he's Brunt *too*?
< 1321305724 621456 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: O(a)O(b) blows out all my bytes (i.e. is too big), I was trying to find a way to do crazy CPP loops for it ...
< 1321305752 921979 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, you need just five levels of such macros.
< 1321305756 389100 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for 1024 values)
< 1321305758 859506 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1321305761 616638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever...
< 1321305763 291229 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, he's a lot of people.
< 1321305771 971854 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazingly, they only appeared in the same episode once.
< 1321305789 27401 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321305790 881543 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hmmm, it could work ...
< 1321305794 873043 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks.
< 1321305807 251962 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: should the pointers to o... things be stored in some array?
< 1321305807 585791 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just need to name them aaaaa aaaab aaaba aaabb etc
< 1321305811 229979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What are you doing, just use chaospp
< 1321305811 678328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321305815 386594 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that could be another story
< 1321305821 31537 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's played *nine* different characters, that's about 7 more than I've noticed yet
< 1321305826 700491 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Naw, you've given me another idea.
< 1321305834 240458 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IOCCC
< 1321306016 72838 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321306315 61657 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321306465 684553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More like OGC!!!!!!
< 1321306471 261258 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321306472 485054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this how the function to load DVI file should be?    withDVI :: FilePath -> s -> (s -> Page -> IO (s, t)) -> IO [t];    You can make different idea if you have other idea please. Maybe this is not best way; I don't know for sure
< 1321306636 972496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you have any more sg thoughts?
< 1321306637 57716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: perhaps -> IO (Maybe (s, t))  so you have a way to halt?
< 1321306639 19666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1321306648 614839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unfoldM
< 1321306649 699714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unfoldM'
< 1321306655 527211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321306684 965203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no
< 1321306716 950656 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, yes, OK; it can have a way to halt.
< 1321306725 373405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think my other sgthought still makes sense, although it depends on sg itself making sense, so hopefully merge changes can be fixed :P
< 1321306738 22999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :withDVI :: FilePath -> s -> (s -> Page -> IO (Maybe (s, t))) -> IO [t];
< 1321306750 453619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently happy with your current plan, because it seems, at worse, equivalent to the old plan
< 1321306751 870124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at worst
< 1321306762 146222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I have a move plan?
< 1321306768 783970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean the conflict resolution plan
< 1321306774 509230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conflict resolution
< 1321306797 138402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321306805 735188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that a move patch should be "move a..b from between c,d to between e,f"; the problem is I'm not sure what it should leave as the hashes afterwards
< 1321306829 829314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, does it work just to leave the hashes of every line the same?
< 1321306843 900959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the really simple stupid solution
< 1321306854 522163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm oh or is it implicitly halting when it's running out of Pages, i didn't realize that at first.  in which case doesn't this look like a kind of iteratee?
< 1321306855 976677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of an obvious counterexample; quick, find one to prove I'm not mad
< 1321306881 885430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, that's the one I showed broken
< 1321306888 420550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it breaks tsorting, remmber?
< 1321306889 899102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember?
< 1321306900 154647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it?
< 1321306921 653621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes; changeset {move (a,b) between (c,d), insert "hi" between (c,a)}
< 1321306929 565160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: second change needs to be applied after the first but has no dependency on it
< 1321306931 934829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsorting fails, Q.E.D.
< 1321306950 345674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the dependency isn't explained in the hash names, I see
< 1321306962 850008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, which is one of sg's major strengths
< 1321306968 693435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dependency's still there in "that's the only thing that could put c next to a", but the problem is that that isn't explicit at all
< 1321306969 356396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the order to apply a changeset in is trivially determined
< 1321306974 801170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I agree is a valid problem
< 1321306984 764506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321307015 375908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we could /probably/ hack it up by just shifting the ordering around a bunch when move changes are involved, but I refuse to implement that
< 1321307025 683257 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, are you working on spacegoat again?
< 1321307026 878674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we want a nonhackish version
< 1321307031 124728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yep
< 1321307036 398027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: deliberate typo?
< 1321307038 512073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only mars-capable version controls ystem
< 1321307040 207567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote spacegoat
< 1321307042 102660 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :655)  Spacegoat is the network-operations-optimized-for-latency-of-minutes-or-hours-due-to-light-speed-limits variant of scapegoat, to be used when you need to check out some code from the Mars colony.   (I'm pretty sure we'll have established a Mars colony by the time scapegoat rolls out.)
< 1321307057 385789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, better name :)
< 1321307085 743235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, the Haddock documentation for Data.Monoid.Plus now works.
< 1321307116 438049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: iirc hackage building broke for a while recently
< 1321307158 812201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, well it seem to work now. That might be why mine and other not mine packages were not working before
< 1321307170 464102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can tell you about the last sgthought if you're interested, although it's not so much part of sg itself as much as taking advantage of its strengths
< 1321307183 69942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me anyway
< 1321307292 531772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, it's an idea for a patch management system based on top of sg to solve a lot of workflow problems I have with existing VCSes, with some ideas taken from the quilt patch management system originally by Andrew Morton for Linux stuff
< 1321307301 267719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose git was basically Linus' own version of that to start with, actually)
< 1321307319 348357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quilt's confusing; it somehow manages to not be a VCS despite acting like one
< 1321307325 449107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what VCS features is it missing?
< 1321307325 625385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321307337 64949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure exactly, I've never /used/ it, only read about it >:)
< 1321307347 997827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know hg has its own version of quilt integrated as an extension
< 1321307351 676838 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say git is particularly friendly for the patch-based workflow, though. Simply because it doesn't have the idea of a "patch".
< 1321307388 727477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, here's the basic idea:
< 1321307390 254606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to avoid TVTropes
< 1321307431 328178 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, just use my method, i.e. the fact that it's crap these days.
< 1321307452 547679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good method
< 1321307454 441881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a few minutes I tend to open less than one page on average from each TV Troeps page nowadays
< 1321307460 483679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem resolves itself
< 1321307464 447500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TV Tropes
< 1321307480 635584 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found a 1 /dev/zero
< 1321307528 543970 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make Haddock include instances defined in this program of classes defined in the other library?
< 1321307553 28671 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I mean c'mon, they renamed *The Wesley*.
< 1321307559 691637 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's proper shark-jumping, that is.
< 1321307778 778007 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a very good plan
< 1321307796 449251 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just need to abandon here, IWC, and MSPA
< 1321307812 969412 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here is good
< 1321307817 736679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it isn't
< 1321307822 891904 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all the free time will be mine!
< 1321307823 762694 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't auto-abandon IWC when it stopped?
< 1321307842 592626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It didn't stop.
< 1321307862 555650 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stopped updating, and it's not like the new annotations are big time-sinks.
< 1321307880 879287 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm a regular on the forums
< 1321308042 803857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It manages a set of patches (named with short-names, like-this) without them being committed (my current implementation idea has it nesting another scapegoat repository inside +scapegoat that it managse automatically; from the point of view of the repo itself, you're just fiddling around with your working tree). You create these patches mainly by doing the equivalent of "darcs record": you select a bunch of hunks, give them a short-name, a
< 1321308043 82202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nd the sg change is added to the set under that name (without doing anything to your working tree). The power comes from "joins": (or should it be "joint", or ...) they're named like some-patch/another-patch, or patch-one/patch-two/patch-three (the ordering is irrelevant), including the slashes. What they do is provide /compatibility/: say you have a patch that rewrites the source code to use a new naming scheme for types (rename-types), and anoth
< 1321308043 491094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er code that adds some features (including new types; new-feature). You would create a patch rename-types/new-feature, which would be a combination of both, renaming the types in the new feature appropriately, and replacing references to the old types. But instead of storing the whole diff from current head to rename-types/new-feature, it would just store the diff from /both rename-types and new-future/. basically, it'd look like: changeset {renam
< 1321308048 558572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e-types, new-feature modulo {...}, ...}. but the power here is that the reference to rename-types and new-feature isn't to a specific hash, it's to their /names/, so whenever you update their patches, rename-types/new-feature gets the changes. (of course, you still have to keep it updated :)) now, the interesting thing is that you can "shadow" patches from your working tree: you can say, I don't want rename-types any more. rename-types/new-feature
< 1321308053 463950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : will automatically get shadowed too, obviously, and you could work some more on other patches (including new-feature), re-enamble rename-types, and it'd automatically enable rename-types/new-feature. (it'll probably fail to apply after changes
< 1321308057 449465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to new-feature, but that's okay, because you can amend rename-types/new-feature to fix it.) there might be another patch, new-callbacks, that changes the callback mechanism used in the program. you might have new-callbacks/new-feature to make new-callbacks shorter using code from new-feature, and to make other parts of new-feature use the new callback mechanism. if you have rename-types, new-feature, and new-callbacks enabled, then rename-types/ne
< 1321308062 460413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w-feature _and_ new-callbacks/new-feature will be enabled. it's possible that these will conflict due to changing the same part of code, which means you make -- you guessed it -- rename-types/new-callbacks/new-feature. you can also commit a set of patches as a repository commit; it'll remember which named patches made up that commit. so this basically eliminates the problem of doing a bunch of work at the same time, and having to untangle it slowl
< 1321308065 311944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321308067 418141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y every time you want to tell the VCS about some of it.
< 1321308069 458498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that was /long/
< 1321308082 569926 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321308141 554284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, of course, when you pull from elsewhere, you can merge it with each patch separately, rather than having to do a merge with your complete working tree and then splitting it back up into the parts that are relevant for each patch.
< 1321308154 347637 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to do an esolang collaboration taking the form of a Piet-like language utilizing the entire web-safe colour range?
< 1321308156 595771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a bit like having separate branches, but much more lightweight?
< 1321308170 995984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, because the merging is a first-class object
< 1321308173 406037 :variable!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-aeocddjpdbklqher JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321308173 451485 :variable!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-aeocddjpdbklqher QUIT :Changing host
< 1321308173 451615 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321308175 889779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and done automatically
< 1321308178 632641 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DS9) aah, there it comes: It's REEEEEEAL
< 1321308187 778328 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of a Voyager fan
< 1321308192 965931 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just waiting for that episode where it's FAAAAKE
< 1321308193 129178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you don't have to decide wh-
< 1321308195 682364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ............
< 1321308198 61904 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that I've watched a bit of an episode once
< 1321308203 161666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -ich branches you want up-front, before making changes
< 1321308215 760566 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what am I being dotted at for?
< 1321308232 612426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Voyager is an impressively bad piece of television.
< 1321308268 385337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I enjoyed the Thor film.
< 1321308268 743426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you can treat e.g. a branch as a named patch, so that you can have compatibility patches with another branch; you could then commit some changes to the main branch, and merge it in to a branch you have compatibility patches for automatically
< 1321308270 279350 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For its plot.
< 1321308289 401814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :naming patches is going to be useful anyway
< 1321308300 283925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, this isn't a regular naming mechanism
< 1321308301 633340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just be tags
< 1321308310 158247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has to be separate from the sg repo, because it's insanely mutable
< 1321308314 160678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the opposite of what history is meant to be
< 1321308325 71848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, tags would be naming changesets; or even (immutable)repos, I guess
< 1321308327 123122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's based upon the idea of mutating one thing causing everything else to mutate :)
< 1321308333 992650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: changesets are just types of changse
< 1321308335 160881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes
< 1321308338 131804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are the same thing as patches
< 1321308341 837374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321308358 594854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I mean is, that they go all the way back to infinity, rather than being relative to something else
< 1321308358 816135 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, watch DS9, I watched it and it was the best waste of...
< 1321308369 46833 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 45 * 26 * 7 / 60
< 1321308369 560291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay
< 1321308370 88568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  136.5
< 1321308380 912431 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 45 * 26 * 7 / (60 * 24)
< 1321308382 20810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  5.6875
< 1321308386 556322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yeah, you've seen me fumble about by doing crazy git workflows like "stash, pull pieces out, modify, commit, restash"
< 1321308393 246003 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, it was the best waste of 6 days I ever had.
< 1321308401 637920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pretty much have to do that in git
< 1321308405 745287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that isn't specifically a git problem, no VCS is good at separating independent strands of work right now, you have to declare them up-front
< 1321308418 77026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321308429 29645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual, darcs is better than its rivals without being perfect
< 1321308436 392901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea with this is that you can start with a bunch of modifications, split them out in a really light-weight manner, and then have a coherent /interface/ to managing them
< 1321308450 778398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also makes working trees less fragile, because they'll be recorded in the patchset data
< 1321308465 339462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to worry about copying your working tree elsewhere before doing a merge or whatever (!)
< 1321308471 242830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I have to do that in git occasionally)
< 1321308481 450449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stashes sort of help, but they're just a thin veneer around cp :))
< 1321308516 709110 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TV characters musing about their whole existance just being imagination
< 1321308575 635817 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... if only they knew, they *are* just some script writer's imagination
< 1321308593 459333 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321308608 20015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're working on a project in svn at the moment at work; I'm using git-svn, but some of the other people are sorting out conflicts by backing up their own copy, choosing resolve-other, then merging them together separately
< 1321308673 23974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1321308678 363709 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a viable merge strategy in CVS too
< 1321308687 600962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worrying part is, /it is actually sane in context/
< 1321308701 383087 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just an update-from-server strategy if your local changes are nontrivial
< 1321308723 862216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe sg should have foo/bar branches itself
< 1321308742 314352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: branches that automatically pull from foo and bar, so you can resolve conflicts in them and the like
< 1321308751 767739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd treat that as a repo definition
< 1321308754 368722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a useful concept even outside of this patch management thing
< 1321308755 662816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of other repos
< 1321308766 459768 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex merges in CVS can be done by a CVS transplant: produce the correct source tree in a copy, move all the files except the CVS metadata into a target working copy checked out on the right branch, commit :)
< 1321308767 234203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree it's a useful concept, but I think it can be done with existing concepts
< 1321308778 187247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but (a) you need to insert your own fix changes, (b) a platonic sg tool would be slow and unusably general :P
< 1321308786 340221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying we don't have concepts for it
< 1321308789 393238 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... sometimes that's the *convenient* way of doing it
< 1321308790 523224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean, maybe we should expose them
< 1321308810 217655 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321308871 529339 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1321309018 564621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, IOCCC!
< 1321309027 196939 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Your craaaazy solution definitely will work >: )
< 1321309036 393786 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1321309037 736065 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm making a semi-portable JIT for the world's worst language :)
< 1321309044 790248 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :)
< 1321309053 540436 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++?
< 1321309056 993523 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm also thinking of possible IOCCC submissions that are doomed to be rejected...
< 1321309064 617631 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was*
< 1321309120 483943 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: I'm just hoping that I can squeak by within their portability requirements >_>
< 1321309142 632640 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, what does limit the portability of your submission?
< 1321309154 786734 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They seem to just barely permit things that are nonportable *by necessity*.
< 1321309184 210966 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: My portability restrictions should be rather silly things, not "is x86"
< 1321309197 272645 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. That's just fine then. :)
< 1321309200 158481 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: It's a JIT :P
< 1321309242 947356 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: By rather silly right now I mean, for instance, that the C stack is as it has been for the past billion years and grows down, and (weird one) that if you say int a; int b; at the global scope it will put b after a.
< 1321309245 760614 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but without involving any kinds of assembly or something?
< 1321309250 90527 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latter one I hope I can avoid.
< 1321309253 554482 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: No assembly at all.
< 1321309265 443817 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's something like templating?
< 1321309269 179905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here's my sg code scraps, FWIW: http://sprunge.us/NebW
< 1321309273 111258 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Yeah, it'll be a template JIT.
< 1321309284 749943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_: My portability restrictions should be rather silly things, not "is x86"
< 1321309288 864454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That OS got in *shrugs*
< 1321309289 332060 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321309311 833851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think that IA-64's satck grows upwards.
< 1321309312 3076 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that ignoring all else, my JIT will be more impressive if it's more portable :P
< 1321309314 226940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOF/EOF are going to need an argument eventually, but I guess you knew that
< 1321309318 645648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, indeed
< 1321309322 475211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's too bad for all four ia64 users.
< 1321309326 387795 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think that would be fine given enough safety measures...
< 1321309333 296551 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IA64 is Xeon, isn't it?
< 1321309337 795492 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: ... no.
< 1321309341 470913 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how much measures needed to ensure the safety though.
< 1321309342 402632 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Itanium.
< 1321309346 662678 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, there's no *strict* requirement that it be portable, it's just strongly suggested.
< 1321309348 609924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I don't have changeset applying code yet, because I realised that tsort was broken :)
< 1321309350 656829 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've confused them frequently.
< 1321309352 294007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Safetylol.
< 1321309354 907513 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes yes.
< 1321309361 789451 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You oughtn't to :P
< 1321309366 692175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Remember that they're rejecting things that need human intervention to compiler.
< 1321309377 855272 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say if it functions on essentially every system people care about, then you're good.
< 1321309383 60067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O(n^2) tsort is trivial; but I think it's possible to do better
< 1321309392 463700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I meant, broken because of moves
< 1321309395 460775 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No problem.
< 1321309404 235886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just going to use fgl's tsort, probably
< 1321309405 323078 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: if they did require that how can OTCC and x86 OS be accepted? :p
< 1321309406 369620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's n log n or n that's the best possible
< 1321309407 994699 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe it or not I have a cohesive and sensibleish plan.
< 1321309412 344867 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway.
< 1321309443 317783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (fgl = functional graph library)
< 1321309467 622345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does it have an algo for finding strongly connected components?
< 1321309472 990701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: :)
< 1321309483 152920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a pretty long-lived codebase and the API isn't the most elegant thing, but it's better than the standard Data.Graph, I should think
< 1321309486 842071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a sort of "stronger tsort" problem there where you possibly have cycles, and want to find those and put them in the proper place)
< 1321309490 779724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should think so?
< 1321309495 224776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applications of UDFS/UDFF
< 1321309495 270177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :components :: Graph gr => gr a b -> [[Node]]Source
< 1321309495 270352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noComponents :: Graph gr => gr a b -> IntSource
< 1321309495 270454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isConnected :: Graph gr => gr a b -> Bool
< 1321309499 217638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks relevant
< 1321309504 678237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up rolling my own in the compiler, with an algo copied off Wikipedia
< 1321309505 873957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same module as tsort
< 1321309554 644384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, Data.Graph forces you to use Int to identify vertices
< 1321309560 436286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, sg wants to use any reference type
< 1321309576 779353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I decided to abstract the whole store system so that algorithms can be generic on the type of reference/store0
< 1321309577 329834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1321309589 836486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out it's easy: class Ref ref m a | ref -> m a where deref :: ref -> m a
< 1321309617 622641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. instance Ref FileChangeHash StoreM FileChange where deref = lookupInStore
< 1321309650 490462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/FileChange/(FileChange ref)/
< 1321309656 579733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply :: (Ref ref m (FileChange ref)) => ref -> File -> m (Maybe File)
< 1321309665 4780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and recursion in FileChange is replaced by the ref argument
< 1321309678 552079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily make Identity a Ref type in the Identity monad, to do it the simple recursive way
< 1321309697 487925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the class should be
< 1321309704 706671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Eq ref, Monad m) Ref ref m a | ref -> m a where deref :: ref -> m a
< 1321309705 57306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc
< 1321309710 496249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, =>
< 1321309792 222755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, weboflies-related question: can you use a new filesystem namespace as a chroot?
< 1321309836 149113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you can mount over /, then yes
< 1321309840 853117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, probably pivot_root would be enough
< 1321309850 866249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, so it doesn't let you do it without root :(
< 1321309852 294343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never dared call it from inside weboflies, because I'm not quite that crazy
< 1321309856 34351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or a bunch of capabilities)
< 1321309858 89546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you need root
< 1321309865 251885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god, wait
< 1321309872 532752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UMLBox would work :D
< 1321310293 453382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess I should try and get Transactional HackEgo running???
< 1321310301 957882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S SO SCARY.
< 1321310444 956857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, I wonder if applying all patches in sequence to checkout might not be reasonably quick, if applying a single patch is fast enough
< 1321310454 975177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really bad at estimating the real-time algorithms will take to run, though
< 1321310505 843946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it'd be impractically slow for common operations, but OK for something that was only done occasionally
< 1321310514 915184 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who cares, it's just constant factors" -- elliott
< 1321310517 829013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant on clone
< 1321310532 715138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a clone, I'd say it'd be fine
< 1321310567 21782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, if we always have a checkout of the tip stored in +scapegoat, then checking out a branch could just apply /inverse/ patches to the base of that branch, and then apply the branch's patches
< 1321310576 312359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need to figure out the inversion algorithm...
< 1321310582 285197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's relatively simple
< 1321310582 679768 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321310583 815581 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321310596 587093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hashes make it more difficult
< 1321310609 794588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, worrying thought: don't deletion changes have the same trouble as move changes
< 1321310612 937652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the inverse of (delete blah) has to be blah itself, not something identical to blah
< 1321310616 406970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of dependencies
< 1321310621 528266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although... that doesn't matter when applying patches, so hmm
< 1321310625 914355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd have "delete b between a and c" and "insert d between a and c"
< 1321310631 990228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no obvious dependence of the second on the first, although there iso ne
< 1321310638 695853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: delete changes are just "delete a"
< 1321310647 280886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK, still no obvious dependence
< 1321310649 729990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even less, in that case
< 1321310658 913281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...
< 1321310661 902060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the two patches don't even mention a common patch
< 1321310663 295858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is problematic, yes
< 1321310678 638460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a) move patches should keep hashes the same, and b) the same solution should be used for moves and deletes, that we haven't yet decided on
< 1321310690 228638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I sort of feel like saying "I guess we have to dump tsort then", but it's a really good property
< 1321310696 911414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's completely unobvious how to order changesets without it
< 1321310715 770675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely don't want to make changesets ordered, that's awful and I think probably breaks tons of obvious properties
< 1321310727 92837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321310742 363736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a partial order exists, but we don't know what it is, is the problem
< 1321310773 566109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: test case I feel will be important: ab, acb, ab, adb
< 1321310784 983929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your "before/after reference" idea is sort of compelling, but I think leads to pathologies
< 1321310786 380174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where letters represent lines, and that represents the history of the file)
< 1321310792 487103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... I don't know, I might be wrong
< 1321310798 924898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, what about it?
< 1321310814 106812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last change is "add d between a and b"
< 1321310826 569432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would apply to the first copy of ab
< 1321310839 801148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the second (the third entry in the history)
< 1321310861 637344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what if deletions and moves both renamed the patches they were deleted between / moved between?
< 1321310872 983607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the question is how to rename them
< 1321310875 920180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a hash
< 1321310881 374461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a move is just one change
< 1321310883 109548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume we have no shortage of hashes
< 1321310887 398244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a move is just one change
< 1321310889 625235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have more than one hash related to one change trivially
< 1321310893 275238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can't
< 1321310895 256135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a salt
< 1321310902 914998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that breaks the current model
< 1321310910 247719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least do it formally with your before/after hash thing
< 1321310913 480431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321310916 70650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just hacking it in with ridiculous things like that
< 1321310921 294132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that isn't a "hash"
< 1321310928 949516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just changing some references to include a hash /and/ a bool
< 1321311000 594298 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321311018 717456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep; I mean hash /and/ other identifier that goes with it, in general
< 1321311025 743567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be a bool, or might more reasonably be an enum element
< 1321311033 641560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321311036 151020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, we can have a file, and a file-sof, and a file-eof
< 1321311045 723312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no, type error
< 1321311058 579271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :file-sof would be a dir change, if references include a bool like that
< 1321311069 933340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no? file-sof is a different type from file
< 1321311085 524665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no type error in "the sof of a file change is a patch anchor"
< 1321311094 929423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any more than there is in "the head of an int list is an int"
< 1321311108 292708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how is this relevant to this? it does not affect the range model at all.
< 1321311110 821374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need
< 1321311126 173357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :startpoint = sof  | line  {before|after}
< 1321311133 900719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321311145 691527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we're disagreeing there
< 1321311174 225163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay
< 1321311218 313704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the original plan didn't involve tsorting, I think; it was that given "add b between a and c", "delete b", "add d between a and c", it'd apply the patches in that order as it's the only one that lead to no conflicts
< 1321311222 786942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that does break the tsort property
< 1321311247 641176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only way to figure out that ordering is brute-forcing
< 1321311254 74925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I don't think so
< 1321311260 504892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to see a shadow of an algorithm in my head
< 1321311261 859312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's ambiguous, since there can be multiple possible ways to apply a change
< 1321311272 483042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an ambiguity would mean a conflict
< 1321311279 126085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what if a dependency on X counted as a dependency on any other change that referenced X?
< 1321311313 735255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea is, that the algo for composing patches is first to tsort, then apply the patches in an arbitrary order, /but/ allow the file to not be in a sane state temporarily as we go
< 1321311326 636873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you could do "add b between a and c", "add d between a and c" in that order
< 1321311333 817158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then "delete b between a and c" would put everything back to normal
< 1321311365 281405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, I was (but shouldn't have been) expecting something less ugly
< 1321311372 321256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my idea's better :-P
< 1321311373 132943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everything ended up violating the definition of a file, we'd have a conflict; /but/ we can actually show the user a sane representation of the resulting file
< 1321311380 845819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is actually beautiful, rather than ugly
< 1321311388 606645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't
< 1321311406 130938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's O(n), much much better than brute force
< 1321311409 649124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've basically said "what if we made changes non-atomic, and removed their semantics, so that they only make sense in a jumble"
< 1321311448 941140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we're extending the semantics to work even with conflicts
< 1321311457 400094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you mean with "non-atomic"?
< 1321311464 407164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean non-atomic
< 1321311468 992161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't apply each change as a separate, coherent step
< 1321311476 715487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to keep track of the ~nonsensosity~
< 1321311478 800453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can; in fact, you can now do so in any order
< 1321311481 340977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes things even better
< 1321311496 587219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not atomic, because changes don't become transformations from files to files
< 1321311497 979430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think by "atomic" you mean "leading to a consistent state at any point in history"
< 1321311499 279033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're from files to goop
< 1321311504 312086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're from goop to goop
< 1321311504 951474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what atomic /means/
< 1321311513 299548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the goop itself is useful
< 1321311513 540812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're /breaking compositionality/
< 1321311517 788419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm not
< 1321311523 455023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're from /goop/ to /goop/, how is that not compositional?
< 1321311550 78943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you apply a changeset from file to file, not goop to goop
< 1321311558 886468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "goop" here means "file or conflicted file"
< 1321311566 565516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you don't need to special-case conflicts. AT ALL.
< 1321311568 834071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing
< 1321311575 788948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sigh
< 1321311586 981402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me know when you have an algorithm rather than an idea that amounts to "just make it not consistent"
< 1321311607 3119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I'll have to implement it to show you how great it is
< 1321311627 208707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't be necessary. a simple algorithm description will be
< 1321311644 584609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far you haven't even defined what the goop is
< 1321311663 704558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a directed graph
< 1321311683 866722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lines as vertices, and edges meaning "adjacent to" (with the direction meaning the direction)
< 1321311724 354128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if each vertex but the first and last has one input and one output (and the first and last have one output/one input respectively), it represents a non-conflicted file; otherwise, a conflicted file
< 1321311738 889742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that sounds a little better. how do you apply a move as goop -> goop?
< 1321311768 467644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disconnect three edges, connect another three edges
< 1321311796 324644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my current issue with this is "what if the edges aren't there to disconnect"
< 1321311805 552183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that that means you're missing dependencies
< 1321311823 587046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this works for additions, but not deletions
< 1321311842 846906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have a count for how many times each edge is there, and let it go negative
< 1321311849 212534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, you can represent "deletion of something that isn't there"
< 1321311860 262784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, hmm, maybe this doesn't work
< 1321311894 256091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this deserves thought from me; but I need to be capable of thinking at the time
< 1321311918 801245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, you have a count for how many times each edge is there, and let it go negative
< 1321311925 719769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just use a multigraph or something, that's ugly
< 1321311950 276680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the issue is that you have a file abc, and get two copies of "delete b"
< 1321311959 132099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a conflict no matter what; how do you represent it in the resulting goop?
< 1321311999 60581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, this solves the tsort issue, but /doesn't/ solve deletions, which are the reason the tsort issue's there in the first place
< 1321312005 573529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's, umm, kind-of pointless?
< 1321312011 403039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't? is there any way for that to happen in a non-conflicting whole changeset?
< 1321312023 762745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no
< 1321312034 593652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just fail, then?
< 1321312045 402943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you want to be able to show the user what's conflicting, when there's a conflict
< 1321312066 612700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because calculating the rest of everything, which doesn't conflict, becomes no longer O(n)
< 1321312103 508965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't mind if conflicts just give a failure result; the program on top can figure out how to present it
< 1321312150 808125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the original idea is that you resolved conflicts by making a change that just made them unconflict again
< 1321312170 141483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not sure that's a good idea
< 1321312185 844504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right; your x-modulo-y is a replacement for that
< 1321312193 819799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's an argument against goop:
< 1321312197 600059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sg pull a
< 1321312198 363161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sg pull b
< 1321312201 130911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has different semantics from
< 1321312201 522155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has different semantics from
< 1321312203 500340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sg pull ab
< 1321312216 728697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "ab", you mean a and b?
< 1321312218 85922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a goop barrier between sg commands, obviously, to turn them into actual files
< 1321312222 292579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: changeset {a,b}
< 1321312224 838511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea
< 1321312226 192621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has exactly the same semantics
< 1321312233 687126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't
< 1321312247 192021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting goop ends up exactly the same
< 1321312250 592163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because if it did, you could apply /every/ changeset that way
< 1321312259 55863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make changes consistent at each stage
< 1321312259 387591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the entire point behind goop
< 1321312261 284933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :contradiction qed
< 1321312263 959119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qedqedqed
< 1321312269 317289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes are consistent at each stage
< 1321312276 688946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in the goop, which might or might not represent a file
< 1321312287 700732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and goop is converted from and to files on each actual operation
< 1321312290 461983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, then presumably you put a conflicted version in the disk file, and let the user edit it to fix it
< 1321312293 854516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore pull ab =/= pull a; pull b
< 1321312316 696335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically saying "we need to apply changesets by threading some intermediate state" while /also/ saying "applying changesets is just applying changes in an order"
< 1321312317 165108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no? assume for the time being that the working copy is clean
< 1321312321 328672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossibl
< 1321312321 464143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1321312337 694826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the result of a pull doesn't depend on the working copy at all
< 1321312344 413274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so after pull a; pull b (or else pull b; pull a)
< 1321312348 875863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or else pull ab)
< 1321312356 989172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the working copy is calculated from the same set of information each time
< 1321312378 576078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same deterministic algo
< 1321312381 47945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you want to operate on goops at all points? that means you have to cache them
< 1321312381 93232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how could it not be the same?
< 1321312385 939336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous
< 1321312390 946814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, operate on goops at all point
< 1321312403 71674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't, semantically, have to cache them, although you probably would for efficiency reasons
< 1321312429 564713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think this will work
< 1321312485 837962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deletes definitely need a between with this method
< 1321312495 610081 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Super Smash Brothers Melee, my brother could write his entire name even though it was limited to 4 letters. In Brawl, the limit is raised to 5 letters however his name will no longer fit.
< 1321312689 655848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god, the official plural of "Prius" is "Prii".
< 1321312691 775200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: weep with me.
< 1321312785 480529 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this for real
< 1321312789 892922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321312797 959726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/02/plural-of-prius-prii-not-according-to-latin-experts.html
< 1321312799 201604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Before we could make up our minds, Toyota decided today that the plural form is “Prii” (pronounced PREE-eye). That decision was the result of a marketing campaign in which Toyota asked the public about the plural possibilities: “Prius,” “Priuses,” “Prii,” “Priem,” or “Pri.”
< 1321312799 346663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Prii” received 25%. “Prius” came in a close second with 24%."
< 1321312811 945980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have gone with "pru"
< 1321312963 456070 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pru is good
< 1321312989 208971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have declared "prius" the plural and went with "priu" for the singular
< 1321313012 736680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new toyota peru
< 1321313105 710860 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all new toyota peru
< 1321313121 106732 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the all new toyota peru
< 1321313129 775500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plural pru
< 1321313150 473565 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :best car
< 1321313211 499182 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I call bullshit.
< 1321313212 116335 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321313261 115410 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Clearly* the car is the プリウス, and thus the plural is also プリウス.
< 1321313286 926734 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(puriusu, puriusu; hůriusu, hůriusu)
< 1321313380 438122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pru
< 1321313409 147949 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously though, plurals can't/shouldn't be dictated by corporate fiate.
< 1321313410 317315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, prius is neuter form of prior iirc
< 1321313420 316682 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Prii" is particularly stupid.
< 1321313420 771487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so plural would be priora
< 1321313549 992969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pus, plural: poo
< 1321313556 958608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new from toyota.........
< 1321313566 502609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan n-cursor zipper
< 1321313602 382589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1321313607 842173 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1321313651 39002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no helpp...... i ned hepl
< 1321313654 479450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if its like
< 1321313655 512478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for a list
< 1321313657 716378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be fnie........
< 1321313667 630401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm for a list
< 1321313683 62843 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dude, what about a zipper where, like, everything is a hole. And there's, like, no actu data, man.
< 1321313708 668137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Whoa.
< 1321313753 846622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's a small sense in which a list may be _harder_ than quadtrees: you don't have the holes at all the same level
< 1321313759 681094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, just like a one-hole list zipper is before + element + after, maybe a two-hole one is before1 + element1 + after1before2 + element2 + after2
< 1321313769 310623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1321313772 342771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't have 2 after 1
< 1321313773 766370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321313775 39528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :before 1
< 1321313812 505363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'll probably go straight to a k-d tree or something; the quadtree example is interesting only insofar as it has a similar tree structure compared to a list
< 1321313845 532180 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321313872 766999 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing is i had a sort of conceptual idea of what an n-hole quadtree zipper should look like, even though immensely complicated, and that method simply does not work for a list...
< 1321313906 638332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it depended on the type-balanced levels
< 1321313910 399170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would a bitree be easier? :p
< 1321313967 292724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this actually reminds me of some of the "solid set" stuff from some of my papers
< 1321314024 495424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm bitrees sound super elegant
< 1321314031 605247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone done those
< 1321314041 130987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a bitree
< 1321314062 429862 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a btree with an i.
< 1321314069 811836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well you know quadtrees and octtrees
< 1321314072 350310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like that but only two!
< 1321314077 6320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean like quadtrees, except for a 1d space
< 1321314079 722013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's uh
< 1321314081 683217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a binary tree
< 1321314083 50356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah :P
< 1321314084 83712 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321314117 947892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you might be able to use that for a list zipper
< 1321314139 950261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if quadtrees sound simpler to do then quadtrees it is
< 1321314145 743800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way that you keep all elements at the same level
< 1321314146 876237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see why it wouldn't generalise to ~bitrees~
< 1321314158 811101 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what i'm thinking about
< 1321314187 329891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i mean i don't actually have any lists to do this to.
< 1321314191 241510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just trying to pick a simple structure
< 1321314209 553580 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How about Bool? Make a zipper for Bool.
< 1321314210 109591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i expect no matter how you slice this, it will be immensely inefficient compared to a mutable structure
< 1321314223 903474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (Bool,())
< 1321314241 536398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well... that sads me
< 1321314242 534916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because of all the maintenance to keep all the holes straight
< 1321314261 680567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suppose the basic problem is that "multiple zippers changing the same structure" is basically only useful to implement mutability
< 1321314264 995828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I'm doing
< 1321314265 521821 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321314272 706024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321314299 986578 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384346_10150936833620716_537230715_21844300_367012712_n.jpg
< 1321314305 489750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but ehh, the shiro 1 design was, fungespace was a big single hashmap, and IPs just modified that round-robin style
< 1321314334 432732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the zipper thing is useful because I can divide up space into smaller regions to make IP-local access etc. fast... it feels really weird that I'd make funge concurrency /slower/ by doing that
< 1321314450 758437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and ofc making it mutable will /not/ be good for one of my main goals for shiro 2, which is to move as much possible /out/ of my awful StateT HugeStateRecord IO monad
< 1321314454 910886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321314468 321931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1321314516 585298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels like I'm making a trade-off between the code getting uglier and having no chance beating CCBI2 :P
< 1321314534 766360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to imagine how a cursor with n holes would work
< 1321314568 886652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, you needed some kind of map to tell which holes go to the same thing on the next higher level
< 1321314569 226069 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does there exist a combinator N such that Nx is true when x is a church numeral and false otherwise?
< 1321314578 838901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I think Oleg did that
< 1321314588 492395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321314591 242733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: doubtful that it could always be false otherwise
< 1321314596 744876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well, there's http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/lambda-calc.html#bluff
< 1321314598 268038 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321314631 367880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The gist of the problem is discriminating a Church numeral from some other term."
< 1321314659 195899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't distinguish it from /every/ other term
< 1321314672 807361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1321314680 421569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it feels like you shouldn't have to have duplication + a map
< 1321314686 875798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that's not helpful though :P
< 1321314756 569339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what duplication
< 1321314771 217346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : first, you needed some kind of map to tell which holes go to the same thing on the next higher level
< 1321314775 889282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the duplication of holes, in some sense
< 1321314776 919080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1321314819 391888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of the case where you have some holes that are neighbors, so they are in the same level-1 quadtree
< 1321314842 375374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they must share their cursor for going up to level 2
< 1321314866 496515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321314872 799692 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se PART #esoteric :"Lmnar"
< 1321314901 308537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure bitrees aren't simpler >:)
< 1321314904 551493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitrees are the new psox
< 1321314906 588942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we may assume that no holes are in the exact same spot except at the very first level
< 1321314923 946895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i have no idea how to apply bitrees to a 2d space
< 1321314951 66145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with what i imagine, they have the exact same issues
< 1321314973 388639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321315004 713171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: who needs a 2d space :P
< 1321315019 317687 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone here watch El Nombre?
< 1321315020 927515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i thought this was something 2d you were implementing
< 1321315021 474290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really planning to use quadtrees much /anyway/, i'm just trying to get a really simple n-cursor zipper to think about
< 1321315023 776334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is
< 1321315037 564115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then.
< 1321315038 169572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm just thinking that it might be easier to formulate an n-cursor zipper on a simpler structure first...
< 1321315050 285157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to continue with quadtrees if you disagree :P
< 1321315072 137845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: how the fuck do i remember that
< 1321315074 695292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter much for my idea whether you look at quadtrees or bitrees.
< 1321315107 524561 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because El Nombre is awesome
< 1321315109 79925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321315146 950732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about how to think of a multi-cursor at level n in terms of a multi-cursor at level n+1
< 1321315229 849326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each hole at the n level, you must know what hole it is at the n+1 level
< 1321315234 861466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321315281 202706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this actually gives a correspondence with some arbitrary choice in the numbering of the n+1 level holes
< 1321315388 640302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one should choose some consistent ordering of the holes, like by x then y coordinate
< 1321315394 118027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait no
< 1321315435 102918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordering by infinite path
< 1321315469 481100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, if so this is one detail which needs to be more careful with quadtrees than bitrees
< 1321315486 694205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily order holes in bitrees by linear position
< 1321315516 190298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321315516 491214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for quadtrees you cannot use just x then y if you want to keep things in the same region together.
< 1321315520 682558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hilbert curve?
< 1321315530 16060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One computer game I made, near the end someone gives you a bunch of stuff (ammunition, health points, torches, money, multimeter, etc) and tells you that you need it to complete the game, and then leaves (through a passage which is locked if you try to follow him). Actually, none of that stuff will help you in the least bit. It will doom you if you are not careful!
< 1321315530 976543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sort of
< 1321315531 629666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, z-order curve?
< 1321315537 138225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The resulting ordering can equivalently be described as the order one would get from a depth-first traversal of a quadtree; because of its close connection with quadtrees, the Z-ordering can be used to efficiently construct quadtrees and related higher dimensional data structures."
< 1321315564 336186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just think of the position as an infinite list of NW, NE, SW, SE tags
< 1321315574 280882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321315593 967549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hm i remember seeing this in oleg's thing...
< 1321315601 158630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We define a `higher-order' zipper:
< 1321315601 411258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> data ZipperD m term dir = ZD{ zd_z:: Zipper m term dir,
< 1321315601 456861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 				zd_path :: [dir] }
< 1321315601 531514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and order them by that (with the list going infinitely leftwards)
< 1321315602 408767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `}'
< 1321315602 548555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `data'
< 1321315609 550802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and then the 2-hole zipper is defined as a pair of those
< 1321315612 507870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the paths are kept in sync or something
< 1321315622 133370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't worry, nothing else oleg said was useful :))
< 1321315629 161058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew
< 1321315644 39045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it might be, but it's based on his continuation stuff and
< 1321315646 951620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> data Zipper m term dir =
< 1321315647 48171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>     Zipper dir term ((Maybe term, dir) -> CCW m (Zipper m term dir))
< 1321315647 93647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>   | ZipDone term
< 1321315647 324689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> type CCM m term dir a = CC (PS (Zipper m term dir)) m a
< 1321315647 369988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> type CCW m w = CC (PS w) m w
< 1321315647 551949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Assassin's Creed Revelations comes out TODAY
< 1321315648 137055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `data'
< 1321315648 474446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `type'
< 1321315648 652809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `|'
< 1321315648 698162 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `Zipper'Not in scope: `dir'Not in scope: `te...
< 1321315648 698321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `type'
< 1321315650 507844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not very comprehensible to me)
< 1321315653 185117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh lambdabot
< 1321315671 243268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so i'm with you, I think
< 1321315698 149901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: z-order sounds like what i'm thinking of, yes
< 1321315715 87016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to say, z-order is one of the ugliest curves, visually :P
< 1321315748 409504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with z-order all holes that are in the same subregion will be consecutive in the order
< 1321315757 377409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(subquadtree)
< 1321315777 893364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321315805 513505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then you can think of this as a grouping operation
< 1321315818 352356 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321315875 921716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm still not sure what this actually looks like, though :P
< 1321315890 824565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's say we have holes 1,2,3,4,5 by order
< 1321315942 980113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 is in its own region, 2 and 3 are the NW and SW of the next upper region, and 4 and 5 are the NW and SE
< 1321315956 798105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a computer game, in one level, there is an invisible bomb that kills you so much that you have to restart the entire game.
< 1321316002 470585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321316017 650524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the embedding can be given as a 3-element list, each element telling the size of its group, how the elements are embedded, and what are the quadtrees of the non-hole siblings
< 1321316055 809037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 would have 3 siblings,  2 and 3 would have 2, as would 4 and 5.
< 1321316066 663645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321316093 815071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a cursor would be itself a list of such embedding lists
< 1321316142 660619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the descriptors for the embedding would be hairy though
< 1321316146 24722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P
< 1321316165 605833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the essential performance problem is, if we have two cursors really far away from each other, then a modification in one causes massive changes in the other, right?
< 1321316176 422644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for 1 it would be fairly similar to our old single-hole stuff
< 1321316180 5629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the path to the other cursor has to be rewritten, so to speak?
< 1321316200 935723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321316217 77028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing this isn't all the correct terminology
< 1321316225 814625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :P
< 1321316242 540948 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321316244 367832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used "multicursor" above
< 1321316257 31164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking, ignore me :)
< 1321316262 346189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never goes well
< 1321316318 55974 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how goes the IOCCC?
< 1321316361 209960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but ok, I'm still following
< 1321316390 72216 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Haven't looked at it since my last message.
< 1321316429 328208 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321316432 610415 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321316442 533291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to make this more concrete so let me write 3 levels of positions for all the holes.  1: nwnwnw, 2: nwnenw, 3: nwnesw, 4: nwsenw, 5: nwsese
< 1321316522 875131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this being level 0, at level 1 the holes would be nwnw, nwne, nwse
< 1321316538 103182 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321316549 399136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just cut off the last path element)
< 1321316565 814589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321316600 986436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we make some hideous constructors...
< 1321316645 688579 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But be not concerned: It will be amazing.
< 1321316655 271074 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd still like to find a good counter.
< 1321316810 299269 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm tallying the points for Whose Line is it Anyway.
< 1321316810 391441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[FromNW {neSibling = ..., swSibling = ..., seSibling = ...}, FromNWNE { swSibling = ..., seSibling = ... }, FromNWSE { neSibling = ..., swSibling = ... }], [fromNWNESE { swSibling = ... }], [fromNW { ... }], ... {- only single hole contexts from here on -} ]
< 1321316811 578154 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE
< 1321316825 211563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you switched to lowercase :)
< 1321316830 369970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be a possible multicursor format
< 1321316833 198089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm
< 1321316837 904100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321316839 148991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is fromNWNESE meant to be a function?
< 1321316846 423427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: afaict you want an infinite number of constructors
< 1321316848 76902 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it was an interpreter right?
< 1321316850 660789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/from/From/g
< 1321316867 97680 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's a JIT now.
< 1321316876 643087 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A portable(ish) JIT.
< 1321316877 102313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no they're finite, there are only 15 possibilities
< 1321316881 444954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah.
< 1321316892 852632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why 15, exactly? seems weird...
< 1321316900 546945 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, any specs for the language?
< 1321316911 336197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you cannot have more than 4 holes merging at the same level, and 0 holes doesn't need a constructor
< 1321316915 549865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321316916 59266 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Not 'til it's implemented :P
< 1321316923 694766 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1321316930 198753 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I anticipate with glee
< 1321316944 342870 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It will look VAGUELY similar to BF with labels.
< 1321316944 585730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: will you hate me if i ask how to modify the element at one of the cursors? :P
< 1321316952 415324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the other cursors being able to navigate there and see the new element, ofc)
< 1321316954 587813 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: (And jumps to label instead of loops)
< 1321316957 153559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the sibling things would be QuadTree t's, of course
< 1321317025 229994 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you mean, like Bub?
< 1321317073 248697 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Vaguely, and its existence serves the same purpose, but it will be more limited (the language will NOT be TC)
< 1321317074 453919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well modifying the element value is simple enough, since that's part of the MultiContext outside the multicursor
< 1321317093 626866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, ok, going east then :P
< 1321317117 631836 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d93299d7.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321317122 322170 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know not enough C to write a non-obfuscated program
< 1321317129 510295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if most of the time I won't modify the value in the context, it seems like you could make moving faster if you can skip propagating the changes... but it's probably not a good idea to think about _that_ right now
< 1321317168 864080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there will have to be an additional first identifying level in case there are holes at the exact same level 0 position
< 1321317207 919370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321317208 746283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one won't be restricted to merging just 4, but on the other hand there is nearly no other data than their number to track
< 1321317260 944094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is quite impressively complicated :P
< 1321317272 351177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first step to going east would be to find your cursor/hole in that list, and checking if there are other holes in the same position.
< 1321317295 991288 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i expected it to be, didn't i :P
< 1321317372 554237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm in fact the question of whether there are other holes left is going to appear at all levels, i think
< 1321317395 914437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: watch as this algorithm turns out to be strictly more work than not keeping any zippers and just re-traversing the tree for every operation :P
< 1321317397 523154 :CakeProphet!~eris@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321317397 568441 :CakeProphet!~eris@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321317397 568587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321317399 959730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, computationally
< 1321317412 908890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quite possibly :P
< 1321317502 402009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1321317532 504782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321317533 448087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and going east can obviously change the order of holes
< 1321317560 334092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needs to be an initial map from holes to holes-in-order :P
< 1321317570 184147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looool
< 1321317584 862520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe we should ask oleg :P
< 1321317593 765847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier :P
< 1321317625 558896 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :From something else I found Akinator again, this time I tried entering answers according to my Dungeons&Dragons character. Well, I play in unusual ways so it could not figure it out, until the menu came up where you can select if any of them are the correct answer; I found two correct answers on that menu and selected both.
< 1321317685 571973 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321317746 890544 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321317763 106493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when leaving a region, you only convert that region to a downward quadtree if there were no other cursors there
< 1321317849 400287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...you know, I think my non-zipperised circular version is easier to get working than this :P
< 1321317859 146866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say :P
< 1321317862 184222 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89701.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321317865 383186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it /could/ work with tying the knot, right?
< 1321317876 465576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321317914 679061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think circular immutable structures are compatible with easy modification
< 1321317933 414565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed, I meant non-easy :P
< 1321317961 489670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to traverse everything to change it to point to the new version
< 1321317970 858180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but you only pay that cost when you force those thunks
< 1321317981 186560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321317998 593564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and since modification is quite significantly rarer than access...
< 1321318016 67389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other IPs modifying is basically just the same, except you're twiddling the pointers of a far-away thing, not where you are now
< 1321318017 508702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to speak
< 1321318041 353985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forcing those thunks may still be linear in the number of modifications _anywhere else_
< 1321318061 936660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :might even stack overflow, that way
< 1321318077 420200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321318089 14362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but forcing each individual location is /easy/
< 1321318102 509786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just rewriting N/S/W/E to point at new thunks, mostly
< 1321318135 141553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321318151 811109 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of 1x09, the points leader is Wayne Brady with 2,001,130.5 points and the episode-average leader is also Wayne Brady, with an average of 285,875.8 points per episode. The log-points leader is (wouldja believe it) again Wayne Brady, with 43 ln-points, and the episode-average log-points leader is Laura Hall with 6.9 in the one episode where she gained points.
< 1321318167 797557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it won't make modifications fast at all, but lookups and moving is /very/ fast
< 1321318179 815563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...lol
< 1321318180 266354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321318193 578875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you really think it won't work at all just tell me btw, I don't want to waste my time :P
< 1321318235 370717 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I decided to add log points because 1,000,000 points really isn't 1,000 times 1,000 points :P
< 1321318256 308335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear that it will essentially require traversing all versions of everything you haven't looked at yet when you force something
< 1321318327 530189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, hm, it may be equivalent in total work to just using array copying
< 1321318341 603561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my worst suspicions are true
< 1321318432 720768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: total work, quite possibly (although note that the array data /itself/ will only change in _one_ node)
< 1321318445 923547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but if it's spread over the cost of moving across locations...
< 1321318492 247269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it will be spread out, really
< 1321318528 608542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be that once you look at an unknown cell, you do all the work remaining
< 1321318535 79978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all cells
< 1321318547 998839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um... you realise that there is not one structure per cell, right?
< 1321318551 604474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :each Location is 128x128 cells
< 1321318565 972633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321318577 533217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whenever you look at an unknown location, then
< 1321318629 785947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...
< 1321318637 737236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/OQej
< 1321318641 277449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically what it'd look like
< 1321318650 752598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some too-clever-for-me-right-now knot tying to make the whole thing work
< 1321318668 157687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it will work at all, but I don't see why it'd necessarily force all work just from one step...
< 1321318821 422615 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-190.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321318826 740802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok maybe
< 1321318876 471415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: otoh there's no obvious way to generalise this to a structure that isn't this N/S/E/W thing :P
< 1321318898 756650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think I /know/ how to implement a really efficient space with mutation, so it's really tempting to just give up on persistence
< 1321318931 545191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1321319707 18432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm
< 1321319710 637990 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at 510 characters.
< 1321319713 917731 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things it does not yet do: JIT.
< 1321319722 678990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IOCCC =/= golf
< 1321319734 873318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a 2048 char limit iirc
< 1321319735 899906 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2048 character (with weird counting) limit.
< 1321319768 20762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that new?
< 1321319787 530149 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :New as of some time a decade ago or something ;P
< 1321319798 753550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like that.
< 1321319811 255363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as you can just factor out most of your program into, like, an stdlib file if it's an implementation.
< 1321319820 519068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Creative Commons used to have CC-SA license but now they only have CC-BY-SA? Can they put it back on?
< 1321319847 279940 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They have both ...
< 1321319858 363354 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohwait, maybe they changed :P
< 1321319896 305812 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, seems you're right.
< 1321319904 491234 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA without BY kinda makes little sense though ...
< 1321320137 696996 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what reason is that?
< 1321320238 653402 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nini~
< 1321321208 995330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw did I mention that I need to support n-dimensional spaces, so the same code needs to handle bitrees, quadtrees, octtrees and up generically :P
< 1321321250 217428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you did not.
< 1321321257 645124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I BET IT'S EASY NOW HUH
< 1321321296 817218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess the principles are the same as for quadtrees.
< 1321321306 733923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what i described above.
< 1321321325 904031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it easy then :P
< 1321321388 260443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sooooooooo efficient.
< 1321321395 788273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally.
< 1321321577 688169 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321322282 942435 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321322703 649828 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321322828 399427 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea is, allow fields in a record update syntax to have the field name and = omitting the value for some fields, and it makes a function taking arguments in the order which you have specified, such as:    join (X { aaa = 6, bbb =, ccc = }) <$> [1..6]
< 1321322867 325371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it can be used even without constructors; it could be used also with functions or values that are of record type and you just update some fields
< 1321323014 10892 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggested symbols for label, unconditional jump, and conditional jump?
< 1321323068 45126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: unconditional jump: / -- it's like a ramp!
< 1321323087 488489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditional jump... umm... ≠? it's a ramp with a barrier!!!!!!!!1111111
< 1321323182 652593 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321323851 760264 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321323945 201866 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is not ASCII, though; in case that matters
< 1321323970 171350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII shmASCII... that's... that didn't work.
< 1321323993 820307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ascii so nasty
< 1321324391 44477 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, my JIT segfaults on all input.
< 1321324393 739380 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not quite perfect yet.
< 1321324395 762610 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But getting there.
< 1321324456 117841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very aggressive memory optimization
< 1321324793 25225 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why, that's a *perfect* implementation of _|_!
< 1321324820 164887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Figured out the issue, my prologue-size heuristic algorithm is heuristically wrong :P
< 1321325129 924650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/ioccc
< 1321325134 450616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This... this feels so wrong...
< 1321325143 897507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ioccc.org/index.html#new It's official.........
< 1321325147 982155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Help im cry,
< 1321325194 656625 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heh
< 1321325212 711386 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some Applicative which are not Monad?
< 1321325228 463259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: most people think ziplist, oerjan disagrees :)
< 1321325235 108204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.ioccc.org/1988/spinellis.hint ;; lol, this is what prompted the "no human intervention" rule
< 1321325241 497638 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321325274 596256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm didn't we find a clearer example last we discussed this
< 1321325285 256428 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrf, where'd my prologue go
< 1321325303 584211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data Applic a = Pure a | forall b. Ap (Applic (b -> a)) (Applic b)
< 1321325304 395535 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about ZipList, but I can seem to defined join for ZipList
< 1321325310 137255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that just for Functor
< 1321325310 726382 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321325315 964837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a monad!
< 1321325325 225405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Functor we had (,) obviously
< 1321325348 874489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: me too, although there are troubles with the monad laws and joining non-rectangular lists of lists if you are not careful
< 1321325351 550312 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define join for ZipList doesn't always defined results, the way I did it, however, but the laws they still defined results
< 1321325365 739924 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, those things too
< 1321325416 765515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aren't ZipLists meant to be always infinite?
< 1321325439 756162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no why would they?
< 1321325454 203369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well pure makse them infinite :P
< 1321325455 433644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course if you do that, they're equivalent to Reader Nat
< 1321325460 337699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321325490 323461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have   f (f a -> a)   and   (<*>) :: f (f a -> a) -> f (f a) -> f a
< 1321325495 599501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes you could make (idx -> a) arrays fast...
< 1321325503 236942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you had like
< 1321325509 521774 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also seem similarity to stream monad too
< 1321325512 656016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(idx -> a) -> (idx,a) -> (idx -> a)
< 1321325516 916403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would "extend a pattern match"
< 1321325565 479877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) [[1,2,3,4],[5,6],[7,8,9]]
< 1321325567 240541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[1,2,3,4],[5,6],[7,8]]
< 1321325575 186009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) [[1,2,3,4]]
< 1321325576 985560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[1,2,3,4]]
< 1321325580 721328 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmm, my putchar function is subtly broken ...
< 1321325580 925733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) []
< 1321325582 845718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  []
< 1321325599 722774 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have (limited) JITting and I'm not even up to 2K /with/ indentation :P
< 1321325611 109619 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "extend a pattern match" mean?
< 1321325613 202073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i believe that applying that before taking the diagonal gives a working join
< 1321325642 440160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all ziplists
< 1321325653 494793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well for instance if (\x -> case x of 0 -> "a"; 1 -> "b"; 2 -> "c"; _ -> undefined) is compiled to a jump table
< 1321325665 839784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could overwrite the "c" case with (2,"d")
< 1321325721 754366 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is what I thought you meant by the type signature; I think you also need (Eq idx)
< 1321325733 543323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1321325748 193460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should probably just work for Int, since it's unlikely that other types would compile down to a jump table :P
< 1321325869 984291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, you already have the (e ->) monad and has functor, join, acting like the stream monad; and you can have contrafunctor
< 1321325907 311403 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIXT
< 1321325909 100325 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I has a JIT.
< 1321325909 828477 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can add another function usable with that, doing that, possibly called update
< 1321326071 774430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: shouldn't you have managed it like in the last hour before the IOCCC deadline, or something.
< 1321326088 326331 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My JIT just said "Hello World!"
< 1321326093 320861 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Pff
< 1321326144 258337 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'aww, doesn't work with -O2 (yet!)
< 1321326191 80294 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And before you say anything, gimme a break, I'm heuristically determining the size of the function pro/epilogue :P
< 1321326233 375877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hubristically
< 1321326239 592746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I gotta see this thing :P
< 1321326245 820832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it have a GC????????
< 1321326264 772730 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lolno :P
< 1321326273 511895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MARK AND SWEEP
< 1321326273 557216 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The language is similar to BF, but worse.
< 1321326299 700443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, not malbolge?  how disappointing.
< 1321326315 608610 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you all.
< 1321326449 942120 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, do you REAAAAALLY want to see it? :P
< 1321326480 357219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeeeeeeeeeeeees
< 1321326483 525148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But uh
< 1321326487 787650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't post it in the channel
< 1321326491 291487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure that disqualifies you :P
< 1321326605 497881 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha?
< 1321326811 609350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the rules to figure out. Maybe it can be done after the deadline; I don't know for sure
< 1321326854 232971 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing about sharing, but it's a fair point.
< 1321326859 27072 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it'll just have to stay a secret :P
< 1321326867 534404 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries compiling it with owcc.
< 1321326904 235930 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, it's taking SO LONG to compile :P
< 1321326921 80738 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, this file has 2,000 functions in it ...
< 1321327014 153148 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'awwwww, doesn't work :(
< 1321327139 401574 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65.183.136.152 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321327152 333826 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, owcc is SO SLOW on this code X-D
< 1321327285 173895 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut
< 1321327289 700545 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :owcc makes some weird code >_>
< 1321327306 511831 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is in its function prologue: 8048110:       68 2c 00 00 00          push   $0x2c
< 1321327306 580575 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8048115:       e8 1f ad 01 00          call   8062e39 <__CHK>
< 1321327312 378761 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is it checking for?
< 1321327340 569889 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it has stack overflow checking whether you want it or not X_X
< 1321327472 83914 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-42-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321327624 641865 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric
< 1321327664 57515 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, owcc is weird ...
< 1321327671 257574 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the prologue float :P
< 1321327828 325972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :balloons.
< 1321328255 509167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321329573 622016 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321330832 659471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321330934 950575 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321331544 726263 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there Haskell library that search paths in the environment variable?
< 1321331548 449906 :CakeProphet!~eris@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321331548 651637 :CakeProphet!~eris@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321331548 696915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321332244 32962 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1321332584 783256 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321332885 929591 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-169.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321332891 419963 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321334137 106139 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic tournaments stopped using Elo? :(
< 1321334209 411957 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321334251 788320 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your score can't go down?
< 1321334268 977273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call bullllllshiiiiiit.
< 1321334297 927293 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't a competitive scoring system, this is... Madness.
< 1321334362 837028 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually seems reasonably sane
< 1321334368 644384 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elo sucked
< 1321334411 140628 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people who played in GPs partially for the amusement of beating a pro and costing them a hundred rating points or so
< 1321334412 824651 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321334417 980237 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacing it with a system that rewards, not skill, but playing at all, seems, well, ridiculous.
< 1321334482 34845 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elo didn't reward skill
< 1321334490 201567 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ended up rewarding luck
< 1321334498 724786 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the new system does reward skill somewhat
< 1321334505 745611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It at least attempts to. Admittedly, it's less well-suited for Magic than for chess.
< 1321334543 200475 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But making a homebrew scoring system that is heavily weighted towards merely participating?
< 1321334554 797519 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's heavily weighted towards winning matches
< 1321334560 720869 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it doesn't measure relative skill
< 1321334579 119231 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elo had the issue that pros didn't want to play with nonpros
< 1321334608 444944 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since losing a single match to mana screw would cost enough rating as to be a serious issue to recover
< 1321334623 493384 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not like WotC couldn't try and get a system better suited for Magic; I mean, jeeze, given their audience they could probably get a few people to volunteer.
< 1321334637 628287 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they've stated that for the competitive events and qualifications, they don't want casual events to be a significant factor
< 1321334662 540584 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're trying to scale the system such that for most places where the ratings actually matter, you're in a reasonably competitive field
< 1321335433 522253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321336591 587689 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321336630 231542 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I need to find a name for my language :D
< 1321337156 710976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :George.
< 1321337182 986703 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something that stresses how it expands continuously
< 1321337193 747086 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "Fatmouse" or something
< 1321337309 42029 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isnt a language called Juidhejsbcuska yet
< 1321337319 119156 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"""FATMOUSE IS THE NEW SCIENCE OF MATHEMATICS. THE FATMOUSE THEOREM IS:
< 1321337319 198493 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
< 1321337320 841601 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :""
< 1321337447 553535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1321337810 958620 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it could be called "juffo-wup"
< 1321338134 955325 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65.183.136.152 QUIT :Quit: http://haskell.org
< 1321338841 810332 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321339132 398794 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> see that
< 1321339133 322605 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `see'Not in scope: `that'
< 1321339135 394716 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> google it
< 1321339136 460536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `google'Not in scope: `it'
< 1321339137 101205 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell
< 1321339140 398138 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321339148 730973 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, ngevd
< 1321339631 241761 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321339883 521184 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321340181 905321 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321340192 261020 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321340374 924919 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321341063 681746 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net NICK :Ngevd
< 1321341735 73166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google it
< 1321341736 48578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_(novel)
< 1321341736 200644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: It (novel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< 1321341742 146441 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very: useful.
< 1321341783 176747 :CakeProphet!~eris@h102.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321341783 261815 :CakeProphet!~eris@h102.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321341783 261992 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321341801 860076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :today
< 1321341857 483417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have achieved the current fastest instantaneous velocity in my lifetime, relative to the inertial reference frame of the surface of the earth.
< 1321341883 225434 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, first time on an airplane?
< 1321341887 9999 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maglev train?
< 1321341897 481570 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I've never been on a maglev or an airplane.
< 1321341900 793483 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in my car.
< 1321341933 699349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin
< 1321341938 323089 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Careful, man. The department of revenue acquisition, I mean, the police, might catch you.
< 1321341938 494505 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runperl \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ units \ url \ wl \ word \ wtf
< 1321341955 123644 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no it was on a basically always cop-free stretch of road.
< 1321341958 608672 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is careful about these things.
< 1321341988 970087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 140 miles/hour -> kilometers/hour
< 1321341998 449002 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :704088/3125 (exactly 225.30816)
< 1321342013 75610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :140 mph!!!!?
< 1321342020 306820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes!!!!!!
< 1321342029 271622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was wonderful
< 1321342030 169833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather confident my car can't do that.
< 1321342045 840556 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather confident my car doesn't even exist
< 1321342050 186492 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, my car is honestly a bit scary around 75, so...
< 1321342072 995099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it took an insanely wasteful amount of gas. basically full throttle for about 30 seconds to creep slowly from 135 (the previous maximum) to 140
< 1321342086 522452 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :130 is the speed it can comfortably accelerate to before becoming difficult to go faster.
< 1321342111 840446 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just thought I would share.
< 1321342121 853497 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your not-completely-terrible vehicle.
< 1321342121 966436 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one day I'll travel in one of these flying machines and go faster.
< 1321342134 142543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the engine and transmission are wonderful
< 1321342138 355755 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... everything else that I've had to replace.
< 1321342151 192368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and body damage from THAT STUPID FUCKING DEER
< 1321342179 555502 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been in many flying machines
< 1321342247 859565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's amazing the difference between a small common 4 cylinder engine (my previous car was a 2.1L I believe) and 3.0 liters of displacement in a V6
< 1321342265 236990 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Not lose the game please
< 1321342277 547780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might become one of those car people.
< 1321342283 587110 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a little bit.
< 1321342338 902930 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually difficult to not go fast..
< 1321342384 521806 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try lifting your foot up a bit next time, that might work.
< 1321342398 607156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well I mean from a complete stop for example.
< 1321342410 93244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I push down too little I'm not going much of anywhere
< 1321342435 730218 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just a tiny fraction further and I'm moving forward very quickly.
< 1321342494 451366 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway
< 1321342555 232722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough about car shit. no one cares. even worse, all the scandinavians are appalled at my crass recklessness.
< 1321342575 986686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid Americans.
< 1321342635 251538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "all the scandinavians" I mostly mean Vorpal if he were here. that counts right?
< 1321342816 175485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are probably magical elves and not actually Scandinavians.
< 1321342917 869489 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I just think it's a bit weird; and also sort-of wish you would in fact get caught by the po-po; it would make for a good story in the traditional "look how clever I am, I know where the police are, I can flaunt my flaunt-flaunt and drive as fast as I want, ha-ha, they suck => COMEUPPANCE" plotline.
< 1321342968 767557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so much that I believe I have smugly outwitted the law
< 1321342979 184588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that I don't actually care.
< 1321342987 73757 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I live in such a place where I don't need a car
< 1321342996 656765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you should.
< 1321343012 542793 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should what, live in such a place, or need a car?
< 1321343017 516908 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have shower now
< 1321343021 819729 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: CLEAN
< 1321343034 525489 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or be glad?)
< 1321343037 866568 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: uh, neither? you should be glad you live in a etc etc
< 1321343040 647216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1321343048 229161 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, somehow I just didn't grok that.
< 1321343072 114009 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kevin Richardson proposed the idea of rewarding drivers travelling at or below the posted limit with a cash lottery, funded by the fines on speeding drivers. This was demonstrated in Stockholm, Sweden, in November 2010.[25]"
< 1321343076 217736 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those Swedes.
< 1321343152 678513 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, how do you implement that?
< 1321343164 787742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can speed and just not get caught and I'm rewarded anyway.
< 1321343167 558824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321343190 680095 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. Well, if you're also lucky enough to win the lottery.
< 1321343209 10986 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewarded with the opportunity of luck, I suppose.
< 1321343285 898460 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like those "you may already be a winner!" snailmail-spams.
< 1321343308 42934 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You win the right to have a chance to win.
< 1321343355 630355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though from what I understand it's a bit easier to get caught speeding in Sweden.
< 1321343429 221866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also, I realized one of the reasons for higher collission rate in the US compared to European countries could be that we have more intersections and virtually zero roundabouts.
< 1321343438 976896 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... have no data for that
< 1321343442 666636 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just considered that possibility.
< 1321343468 685891 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. From what I hear, it's reasonably easy here too. They keep plonking those cameras here and there (of course there's crowdsourced maps of them for navigators and all that), and I suppose the police are reasonably random about where they stage speed-measuring sessions, though from what I understand there are still some "favourite spots" too.
< 1321343489 608941 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :US cops are all about favorite spots. it's stupid.
< 1321343504 134205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been driving the same roads for about 2-3 years now and they're always in the same spots.
< 1321343544 707705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Finland used to have virtually zero roundabouts, but lately (last decade or so?) they've been putting in those mini-roundabouts just about everywhere.
< 1321343558 551961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in Georgia specifically, local officers are /not allowed/ to stop you for speeding unless you're going 15 over.
< 1321343566 253286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however Georgia State Patrol can.
< 1321343579 146606 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A "modern roundabout" is a type of circular junction that was developed by the UK's Transport Research Laboratory[citation needed] in the mid twentieth century,[citation needed] in which road traffic must travel in one direction around a central island and priority is given to the circulating flow. Signs usually direct traffic entering the circle to slow down and give the right of way.[7]
< 1321343579 192088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :These junctions are called "modern roundabouts" in order to emphasise the distinction from older circular junction types which had different design characteristics and rules of operation.[citation needed] Older designs, called "traffic circles" or "rotaries", are typically larger, operate at higher speeds, and often give priority to entering traffic.[7] In some cases, the term "traffic circle" has been used to describe roundabouts in North America. The original
< 1321343580 160263 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ly British term "roundabout" is now often [7] used in North America too by officials and engineers, but it remains rare in general US usage though commonplace elsewhere.[8][9]"
< 1321343583 298123 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, those 'modern'-style ones.
< 1321343597 75190 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of [citation needed] there.
< 1321343640 279963 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :offering priority to entering traffic sounds like a bad idea.
< 1321343657 564867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the standpoint of reducing congestion.
< 1321343659 102161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only ever heard them called roundabouts
< 1321343695 874165 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one old (and old-fashioned) "traffic circle" in Helsinki; it's big, it's got two lanes in the circle, and it has half a dozen sets of traffic lights in it.
< 1321343735 192306 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like a short circular road than a junction.
< 1321343736 538456 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise. "Traffic circle" to me only really refers to those godawful traffic-lighted things around the East coast, particularly Massachusetts.
< 1321343758 547440 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it here that the magic roundabout was brought up a while ago? that thing's amazing
< 1321343782 502520 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, really wish roundabouts were more prevalent. Traffic lights *suck*.
< 1321343840 839782 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout_Appreciation_Society good
< 1321343927 631177 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, RE: speeding. Flaunting the police is a bit more understandable when you realise that they don't function to increase safety here (and in many cases *reduce* it), but rather just to get cash.
< 1321343958 787231 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: :)
< 1321343977 58314 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/roundabounda.jpg
< 1321344034 592213 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to fi.wikipedia, that one's Finland's first "traffic circle".
< 1321344356 332502 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I've sometimes wondered is whether there is any explicit law against going around and around and around( and around)* in one of those things.
< 1321344407 422053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably not necessary as no one woukd waste the time / fuel.
< 1321344450 16384 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess so, and it'd be somewhat silly to make it a crime to accidentally miss your exit and go the full circle at least once.
< 1321344591 918487 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in the category of "what?": they're having this competition in Finland, where people (six at the beginning) sit inside this mini-excavator at a shopping centre, and the one who sits in it the longest wins the excavator. At the moment the (two remaining) competitors have spent 166 days in their mini-excavators.
< 1321344617 244703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321344620 741729 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321344627 901174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Why*?
< 1321344670 506824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's organized by the company selling those things, I suppose they wanted some visibility.
< 1321344682 755168 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kaivuriskaba.fi/index.php?page=1032&lang=2
< 1321344687 317397 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do people spend 166 days in their mini-excavators
< 1321344733 902351 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do mini-excavators have toilets
< 1321344745 893431 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have a total of one hour per day they can be outside the excavator.
< 1321344755 725771 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :toilet hour
< 1321344756 753243 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For bathroom breaks and so on.
< 1321344916 608155 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely certain they expected the thing to last this long.
< 1321344997 532600 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are ridiculously competetive
< 1321345020 407668 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine they only really expected it to last a week, tops.
< 1321345045 603876 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine sitting in the excavator more than a couple of minutes
< 1321345060 454731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll never win prizes
< 1321345139 840617 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could only imagine it if I gave approximately G_64 more shits than I do.
< 1321345141 379 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321345514 113659 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok decided to call my language Fatmouse
< 1321345658 138246 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fatmouse
< 1321345694 218567 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda like it too... my first language that's not some kind of broken functional-ish language
< 1321345762 429692 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be implemented until I figure out how to garbage collect it though :D
< 1321346018 787753 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: sir, those conditions at the end of statements
< 1321346021 33639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's control flow.
< 1321346043 224042 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shhhh :D
< 1321346045 392139 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does statement evaluation order work? nondeterministic?
< 1321346058 349022 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory it doesn't matter
< 1321346067 751876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't matter no.
< 1321346073 754543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's side-effects.
< 1321346087 144990 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, no side effects
< 1321346113 493342 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's i/o but it's not affected by evaluation order either
< 1321346121 648487 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321346123 566765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: just do a reference count garbage collection. so basically if a variable is part of a condition that's +1 refcount
< 1321346144 263248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a conditional statement is executed that's -1 refcount.
< 1321346160 862488 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake: it's not quite that simple as far as I can tell :D
< 1321346162 150223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to all the variables in the condition.
< 1321346195 886203 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that a variable can be collected when it can't cause any more other statements to turn true in turn
< 1321346221 183761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that's a problem.
< 1321346221 229020 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be easy except for the variable arrays
< 1321346279 908725 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance in the brainfuck example, none of the statements ever become obsolete
< 1321346344 562167 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially it calculates the new state from the old state. the interpreter has to figure out what's part of the old state and thus unreachable and garbage collectable, and what isn't
< 1321346354 432336 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems to depend on variable indices
< 1321346365 565963 :myndzi!~myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321346384 353696 :myndzi!~myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321346396 867184 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321346438 415769 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance icnt.0 becomes obsolete once the 4 lines that depend on it have run
< 1321346458 234588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so what's the problem with my scheme?
< 1321346470 743039 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I'll think about it
< 1321346473 119457 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just treat each variable index as a unique variable to be garbage collected.
< 1321346474 516264 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired
< 1321346568 876732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the refcount would be a compile-time thing essentially.
< 1321346572 419393 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?
< 1321346578 148434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, probably needs to be runtime I guess.
< 1321346629 177910 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially whenever a variable (or array index) is "created" it then needs to make a count of how many times it's referenced in a conditional.
< 1321346643 304225 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when a conditional that references the variable executes, you decrement its refcount
< 1321346648 599933 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it reaches 0, you can garbage collect.
< 1321346650 745105 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that count might be infinity
< 1321346655 592030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321346659 337627 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake: hmm.....
< 1321346669 175031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I checked we don't write infinite programs very often.
< 1321346675 43434 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake: actually that sounds like a good idea
< 1321346679 325267 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look into it
< 1321346682 247688 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow :D
< 1321346693 814424 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. :)
< 1321346720 39083 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I mean a same variable can be used multiple times by a statement I think
< 1321346782 295934 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, night
< 1321346783 700998 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Radiateur
< 1321347096 310667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/MNbN6.jpg
< 1321347535 119501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321347709 425093 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321347719 956729 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ill...
< 1321348267 36804 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321348294 30439 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C71F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1321349649 899457 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
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< 1321354254 183481 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81edb5.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321360263 839872 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1321361048 489400 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everyone.
< 1321361048 904467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321361398 248459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321361422 424193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321361736 632266 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1321362797 204576 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321363021 443726 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321363726 485732 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321364219 54083 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321364685 160935 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1321364761 348959 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's BBC News Technology section:
< 1321364769 180408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook sucks, here's something else!
< 1321364777 796870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not Diaspora, is it?
< 1321364782 469623 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1321364786 56695 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321364786 743927 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The creator's died
< 1321364818 392739 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the age of 22
< 1321364832 562453 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn.
< 1321364865 479950 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No indication as to under what circumstances he died.
< 1321364933 988835 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was that Scottish guy, Robert or Robbie or something
< 1321364952 223981 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't narrow it down, does it?
< 1321364990 47874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know at least two Robbies, although only one of them's Scottish.
< 1321365000 250981 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead, very dead
< 1321365006 183420 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Folk hero type person
< 1321365039 432931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coltrane?
< 1321365051 153589 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not
< 1321365055 500916 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He's not dead.)
< 1321365072 117745 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clue is "Sir Walter Scott's hero" and my gran thinks it's a Scot called Robert
< 1321365105 440213 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :crossword?
< 1321365113 420287 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many letters?
< 1321365133 320409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burns?
< 1321365133 881275 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7
< 1321365140 102589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bruce?
< 1321365182 195978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivanhoe
< 1321365209 764325 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roy?
< 1321365223 12356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Roy; he wrote a book about him.
< 1321365228 693170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivanhoe fits
< 1321365239 417035 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, guys!
< 1321366281 161871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, still another hour at least until the computer bits arrive.
< 1321366299 449195 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Assassin's Creed Revelations arrived this morning!
< 1321366321 579037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that you have to order everything in Hexham?
< 1321366349 345720 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just video games
< 1321366371 944077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else would you need to *buy*?
< 1321366386 85104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1321366388 589681 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemonade
< 1321366597 268390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Scotland fast-tracks you to university if neither of your parents went.
< 1321366635 596296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apparently that's something the rest of the UK can blame on us: the expectation that university should be the norm.)
< 1321366897 264688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about those things you run video games on? You know, those... computaurs?
< 1321366916 485702 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just torrent those????
< 1321366925 704442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got computaur stores
< 1321366977 254846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive; I don't think Hexham-sized places here do, at least any good/cheap ones.
< 1321367011 244644 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't say 'good' or 'cheap'.
< 1321367016 882125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got "The Computer Shop"
< 1321367029 318638 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We used to have "The laptop shop" but that closed down
< 1321367086 973217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Computer Shop.
< 1321367089 730691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds good.
< 1321367166 441145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the Violin Shop
< 1321367176 260639 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't by computers there
< 1321367185 410882 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Violence Shop.
< 1321367230 939292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please please tell me that all shops in Hexham are just called The _ Shop.
< 1321367236 952172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321367240 822018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321367247 653453 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Violin, Computer, Laptop, and Sandwich
< 1321367251 40223 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a "The Shop"?
< 1321367257 65244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321367260 440478 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they indeed do have two (2) computaur stores (or approximations of) also in the Hexham-sized place I was thinking of.
< 1321367287 633338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Shop Shop, venture capitalist hub.
< 1321367400 292362 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also have a soft drinks brewery
< 1321367471 948977 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 2nd largest electronics retailer (and the oldest webstore) in Finland -- net sales of 173 million euro/year, probably the largest sort-of computaur-focused consumer-shop -- is called "verkkokauppa.com", lit. "webstore.com". It's not exactly the most imaginative name either.
< 1321367553 444200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are all the shops in Finland called  Store.
< 1321367571 630475 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321367581 648598 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no.
< 1321367677 284699 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the "webstore.com" used to be called Arctecho in olden days.
< 1321367703 728459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1321367718 996594 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For the first 19 years of his life an unemployed US teenager was known as Calvin Gosz, but after selling his naming rights to a Finnish consumer electronics retailer he is now called Verkkokauppa Com.
< 1321367719 41986 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :      The contract says that Calvin Gosz, of Sheboygan, Wisconsin will legally change his name to Verkkokauppa Com in exchange for the asking price of USD 5,000 (ca. EUR 3,400)."
< 1321367964 215164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's stopping him from changing it back?
< 1321368017 901447 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably nothing, unless they've specified some time limits in the contract.
< 1321368052 183068 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Verkkokauppa just likes it.
< 1321368052 581708 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He is eligible to change his name back after two months."
< 1321368059 529799 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably goes by Verko.
< 1321368499 623093 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321369270 295682 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, JITting isn't easy X-D
< 1321369274 506986 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid function pro/epilogues.
< 1321369282 536265 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321369460 319498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott OMG more Gorey overs so happy
< 1321369460 666172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321369468 757473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott COVERS I MEANT COVERS
< 1321369469 68338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321369955 313137 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321370090 538290 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recommended videos: Fat Man Shoots A Gun (0:08) .. because you watched The Man with the Gun". Oh YouTube... (The former is Exactly What It Says on the Tin; the latter is a PPOT music video.)
< 1321370103 971113 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when the Semantic Web comes we'll get relevant recommendations.
< 1321370170 20048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say on firm logical foundations that when the Semantic Web comes along we'll have flying pigs.
< 1321370325 746085 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the flying pigs will all be linked by their semantic properties.
< 1321370327 608887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's all good.
< 1321370355 704961 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a not entirely unrelated note, I think I may have thought of a brilliant way to do XSLT S and K
< 1321370606 742964 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"register" is ANSI C right? (Although with no defined semantics)
< 1321370683 486372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes, and it does have a defined semantic (UB if you try to take a pointer to it)
< 1321370699 309064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it's a defined semantic that's strictly more useless than auto's, but it's there
< 1321370701 901699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, how is it this hard to copy subtrees of an XML expression.
< 1321370716 358559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is XSLT just completely nuts?
< 1321370728 61606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO!!!
< 1321370735 469180 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work
< 1321370743 666402 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, XSLT is completely nuts
< 1321370745 194487 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Heh, I meant no semantics of "it will actually be a register" of course :)
< 1321370748 658707 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do one iteration just fine
< 1321370752 625664 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And a parameter can be marked "register", right?
< 1321370753 336435 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make it recurse
< 1321370764 851352 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, your problem is with recursion?
< 1321370765 374339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think so, although I'm not completely sure
< 1321370783 334518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that XSLT left that out deliberately because they objected to TCness or something?
< 1321370796 319577 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just compile with -ansi -pedantic
< 1321370824 923572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no.
< 1321370829 690678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, have you read http://conferences.idealliance.org/extreme/html/2004/Kepser01/EML2004Kepser01.html ?
< 1321370854 600962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321370855 975362 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :full.c:31:8: warning: ISO C forbids conversion of function pointer to object pointer type [-pedantic] HAHA COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THIS
< 1321370862 123727 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chooses to ignore that >_>
< 1321370883 223515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you can use void(*)() as a generic function pointer type if you like
< 1321370891 196155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'll have to cast back and forth explicitly
< 1321370899 383840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It promises a coding of recursive functions, so it might be worth reading.
< 1321370932 638392 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be interesting?
< 1321370940 516874 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm doing a JIT, I explicitly need to cast between function and non-function pointers.
< 1321370942 86243 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program that when it has no input prints its source code
< 1321370946 605569 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It complains even with a valid cast.
< 1321370954 406470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when it has input interprets that input as its own language
< 1321370961 350969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh right
< 1321370970 874768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, that's completely impossible
< 1321370990 912843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've used archs before which had 14-bit words in the program storage and 8-bit words in the RAM-equivalent)
< 1321370996 69356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, so an interpreter which spits out its own source when you give it an empty program?
< 1321371004 369285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the only truly portable way is to go via a char array
< 1321371009 41042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-intpreter, Phantom_Hoover
< 1321371010 364307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, to avoid the warnings
< 1321371019 249609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still won't /work/ on archs with separate code and data
< 1321371020 672129 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, I know.
< 1321371031 425837 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Errr, it is possible to "ignore" the warnings, I've done it.
< 1321371043 178315 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Cast through an integer type, size_t.
< 1321371048 10686 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (void*)(size_t)func
< 1321371052 167728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: intptr_t, you mean
< 1321371074 25502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If sizeof(size_t)!=sizeof(void*) you're usually screwed anyway :)
< 1321371086 486574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321371091 832854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but intptr_t exists for that purpose, why not use it?
< 1321371096 959028 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferrably in an esoteric language
< 1321371099 664512 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nuff.
< 1321371101 894718 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer bits have arrived.
< 1321371106 149306 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's just unfortunate for IOCCC X-D
< 1321371113 755207 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I'll focus on making the JIT /work/ first.
< 1321371121 28194 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't got into Assassin's Creed
< 1321371581 848620 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1321371666 713478 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1321371691 784321 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^extract from a BF program I'm working on
< 1321371731 781538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1321371750 139061 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321371930 143808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASSASSIN'S CREED TIEM
< 1321372094 700648 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321372277 106247 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321372630 356896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321373609 458268 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1321373616 52753 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I get a Diaspora account?
< 1321373638 640694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also possible to ignore the warning by going via the reinterpret-bits route; with C99 compound-literal and designated-init you can do it inline with a simple and elegant   int func(void); ...; void *vp = (union { void *v; int (*f)(void); }){ .f = fn }.v;
< 1321373777 888778 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the worst thing about Diaspora is that not enough people have an account
< 1321373823 526274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I think wait until elliott turns up, he'll probably have some strong opinions on it.
< 1321373932 871633 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone
< 1321374001 287339 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321374061 509810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: POSIX C permits conversion of function pointer to object pointer.
< 1321374088 492725 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. that warning is bullshit.
< 1321374089 266831 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IOCCC is ANSI, not POSIX.
< 1321374096 976979 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that warning is only with -ansi -pedantic.
< 1321374124 405371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC says "it must compile with an ANSI C compiler" and then goes on and describes how ideally you should comply with POSIX.
< 1321374137 767512 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321374140 661192 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misunderstooded.
< 1321374146 684128 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using mmap anyway X-P
< 1321374149 947052 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The warning also explicitly says "ISO C forbids".
< 1321374154 441212 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even MAP_ANON, which is non-POSIX.
< 1321374167 533324 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what they *mean* is that it should use an ANSI C compiler *as oppossed to K&R C*.
< 1321374174 964844 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nuff X-D
< 1321374188 292036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321374194 230517 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is going to be a challenging enough project without getting all pedantic >: )
< 1321374234 100030 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd interpret it to mean "common UNIX compliant" if I were you. :)
< 1321374262 814361 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I am doing.
< 1321374265 137345 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with the mmap.
< 1321374266 107687 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321374626 885408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1321375596 324001 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!
< 1321375596 455160 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i know! and yet, i still know it's true, but which cannot! the speeder do you fit the entire poopulation o, i am the master, the men and die horribly, don't you?
< 1321376004 790568 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH SO CLOSE WTF :(
< 1321376055 686018 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is fungot a bot?
< 1321376055 824833 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: i can think of one good thing, but laughed it off one on one and it is while balanced precariously on the back of the tavern
< 1321376061 781167 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1321376102 618425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is the best bot ever.
< 1321376102 663961 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's the internet, adam. it could just apply a jolly good. nothing has a bite that big to you, our helpful. ' is phone is still workin' class, guv.
< 1321376109 561289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321376117 748075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^sty... oh, it'll be IWC.
< 1321376175 182051 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche, watch this.
< 1321376178 51734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot
< 1321376178 121824 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
< 1321376182 163647 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IWC? Irregular Webcomic?
< 1321376190 475068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, meta!
< 1321376190 520304 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:, so i'd make stuff up to. why, this is for you guys are a lot
< 1321376199 298908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche, yes.
< 1321376207 520059 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the newest style.
< 1321376227 630674 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D I knew 'I know and yet I still know it's true' sounded familiar
< 1321376246 160603 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also explains why it mentioned a tavern
< 1321376261 29448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi!
< 1321376261 74606 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that something you know and and
< 1321376264 360547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Darth_Cliche: hi!
< 1321376266 256555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321376269 48280 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321376380 4432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche has been here for a while.
< 1321376422 288610 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321376437 460802 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Taneb lead you to our hiding-place?
< 1321376448 127740 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb?
< 1321376456 842854 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I know anyone by that nick
< 1321376470 183369 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was eliott who led me here
< 1321376480 228776 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321376519 59707 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody know off-hand the gcc optimization flag to not rearrange functions? X-P
< 1321376558 801337 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be -fno-reorder-functions
< 1321376584 738814 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ... not ...
< 1321376715 766972 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works with -O1 :)
< 1321376780 288860 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321376859 79452 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche, ouch, I don't want to be you when elliott arrives.
< 1321376860 723243 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hates people getting the number of ls and ts wrong.
< 1321377285 881899 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321377304 194992 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How annoyed would the IOCCC folks be if I said it works with -O0, -O1 or -O2 -fno-align-functions -fno-optimize-sibling-calls -fno-peephole2 >_>
< 1321377778 391569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ooh, I'll have to look at those optimisation combos for my own program
< 1321377782 689250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suspect even -O1 breaks it
< 1321377802 180067 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Rearranging functions breaks me quite horribly :)
< 1321377814 225775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it relies really heavily on variables always being stored in memory; marking them volatile and passing pointers to them to functions works for gcc -O0 and clang -O0
< 1321377834 260775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it fools higher optimisation levels, and know it doesn't fool -O3
< 1321377874 851088 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I doubt those flags will help you then.
< 1321377882 220961 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rely on variables being stored in registers :P
< 1321377969 608863 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to try on 32-bit, which I haven't done in a long while ...
< 1321377978 680760 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works :)
< 1321378080 181343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is the first time I've ever tried to do really portable stack-smashing
< 1321378093 412870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even allows for differences in the direction of the stack, and doesn't care where on the stack frame the variables are stored
< 1321378102 439348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's in a recursive function, to /force/ them to be stored on the stack
< 1321378126 105812 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be more portable than me :P
< 1321378137 24124 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to be fair, portable JITting is completely impossible.
< 1321378158 2843 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the real test: ARM
< 1321378182 290430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… identify function prolog and epilog statistically, compile code in order to generate the instructions you need?
< 1321378185 283952 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321378192 916489 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1321378236 462531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as a suggestion on how to portably JIT
< 1321378271 122176 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I do :P
< 1321378281 920141 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the pro/epilogue stuff is a nasty trick.
< 1321378286 453872 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with optimization.
< 1321378315 66835 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting that OWCC is the slowest compiler ever written.
< 1321378367 573593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what bytecode/language are you taking as the input to the JIT?
< 1321378369 87682 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello, world!
< 1321378373 19678 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​127 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-----.>++.+++++++..+++.>.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>-. [697]
< 1321378376 874295 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Something vaguely similar to BF.
< 1321378391 680286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a /very/ simple JIT
< 1321378394 822484 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P
< 1321378399 81843 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a break, I have 2048 characters.
< 1321378413 312375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it still left/right/inc/dec/loop? or does it mention numbers?
< 1321378429 613462 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/loop/label and jump/
< 1321378488 664491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm pretty sure we have a name for BF-except-with-conditional-GOTO
< 1321378496 164661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a name for basically every other BF deriv, right?
< 1321378590 741185 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's out there somewhere.
< 1321378594 751499 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine isn't quite that either.
< 1321378600 760344 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's precisely what was most JITtable of course :P
< 1321378974 472589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what sucks about aluminium?
< 1321378982 722003 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scratches are stupidly visible on it.
< 1321380237 272555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321380416 606291 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321380582 940924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, argument currently dominating #nethack: how is "xor" pronounced?
< 1321380606 38068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zor
< 1321380606 570976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321380615 162174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, zaw
< 1321380616 749490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, you're on the other side of the argument to me, then
< 1321380617 113886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :z + or
< 1321380621 154200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you say?
< 1321380625 557314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to me it's "exor")
< 1321380637 798356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hereby declare it to be pronounced with a Lojbanic x
< 1321380641 766506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the "ch" in "Bach")
< 1321380712 78216 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dictionary.com says it's "exor", I always
< 1321380717 155005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+say just "xor"
< 1321380790 474446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1321380793 652458 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce it ex-or
< 1321380810 135358 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a related note, ZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
< 1321380817 816995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can't "say just xor" :P
< 1321380826 866360 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can and I do
< 1321380835 884323 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, like ksor?
< 1321380840 153026 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like that.
< 1321380847 285421 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's awkward.
< 1321380861 389730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce it like "pshaw"!
< 1321381198 669164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321381398 903094 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAARM >_<
< 1321381409 392603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Zee arm?
< 1321381432 742272 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ead8:       e59f200c        ldr     r2, [pc, #12]   ; eaec 
< 1321381432 872194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321381432 954522 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :    eaec:       00051615        .word   0x00051615
< 1321381444 989496 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way to read that is "Just try to JIT this, bitch!"
< 1321381447 400565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eaec
< 1321381460 756507 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I usually pronounce it 'zor'
< 1321381583 971076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I pronounce "xor" by hitting the back of my tongue off the top of my mouth while moving air through it quickly and then "or"
< 1321381588 455193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That almost certainly has a name.
< 1321381597 710406 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321381634 64295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I just pronounced that first consonsant a few times, and it sounds more like a Welsh ll than anything
< 1321381638 482766 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I could convince ARM not to put this constant in .text >_>
< 1321381662 630493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It sounds like "k" here, i.e. the whole thing sounds like "core" but much more... I dunno, thuddy :P
< 1321381675 322956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's impossible to do vowels after it so I sound like a ghost or something.
< 1321381683 834211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my tongue stays low for a k
< 1321381700 266258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It isn't how I pronounce a "k", it just sounds like it :P
< 1321381703 23714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION records THE PERFECT XOR.
< 1321381707 383467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I don't actually say it like this.
< 1321381829 437938 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce xor as kssor
< 1321381870 654924 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO ONE TALKS LIKE THAT SHADDAP
< 1321381883 803343 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite have a good pronunciation for xor
< 1321381888 900617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, Audacity can't do my microphone.
< 1321381898 348867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime's it's ksor sometimes it's zor somtimes it's ex-or
< 1321381912 457469 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321381927 703352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or"
< 1321381941 505160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321381946 911450 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pronounce xor by punching whoever wanted me to punch xor in the face
< 1321381948 428338 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then or
< 1321381950 877049 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321381954 737060 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not punch xor
< 1321381956 664078 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounce xor
< 1321381962 622729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also punch whoever gave xor its name
< 1321381976 21492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or"
< 1321381978 115960 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :717)  ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or"
< 1321381995 712945 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opinion on Diaspora
< 1321381997 36574 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go
< 1321382016 928590 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'mma come back to ARM later :P
< 1321382019 992539 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What platform next?
< 1321382025 324959 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, x86 and ARM are the only platforms.
< 1321382029 738708 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wii
< 1321382031 22547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know much about jews.......................................... but i hear the greg egan book is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321382033 364807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PPC
< 1321382040 174663 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I for one can say /ks/ at a coda
< 1321382043 228795 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know what I meant
< 1321382049 489648 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's relatively common in Greek as well
< 1321382056 854482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: :'(
< 1321382071 713928 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though always simplified to /z/ when a Greek word is loaned to English, like /ps/ > /s/
< 1321382084 329779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow Wikipedia, do you really want to call this appeal person an "author of 549 Wikipedia articles"? I thought you didn't do that :P
< 1321382134 16226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the WMF are running out of ideas for pleading for funding
< 1321382144 675175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Wikipedia's collapsing in terms of activity
< 1321382148 66351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, they're asking for 3 pounds a month
< 1321382153 256981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of editors/edits/etc are all dropping
< 1321382158 126668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they really think many people will do that?
< 1321382158 969289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1321382216 316745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "The amazing thing about Wikipedia is that nerds like me, who love weird things like gastropods (snails), get to come together and share our passion with the world."
< 1321382219 232690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actual quote from the appeal
< 1321382232 403414 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG!
< 1321382236 901129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it's not as bad as Enigma's advertising
< 1321382238 61769 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hurls money at Wikipedia
< 1321382287 195638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I somehow can't imagine Wikipedia dying
< 1321382327 480588 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet they'd get donations if they went down for one day and then came back up saying "lol sorry guys, couldn't pay the bills for that day."
< 1321382347 598165 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you weird?
< 1321382378 780332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Super.
< 1321382399 798271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321382423 770029 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too weird for zzo
< 1321382741 579714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD AIS
< 1321382750 592296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Newkitten PLEASE DON'T DELTE THIS OMG ;___;
< 1321382813 922136 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321383305 81776 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, my JIT isn't portable :(
< 1321383309 199148 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321383404 224072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is it potable
< 1321383408 766057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does itw ork on ppc
< 1321383455 395559 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. Or I would have said something jubilant like "MY JIT IS SO AWESOME WOOOH"
< 1321383465 546072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does it work with... sparc
< 1321383465 760653 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the way it fails on PPC is a bit mysterious.
< 1321383467 830180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha?
< 1321383468 885141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :misc?
< 1321383470 313979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mips?
< 1321383476 489342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it on jsmips
< 1321383481 105147 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321383494 856917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it's spam
< 1321383515 970895 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's gooooooood
< 1321383516 323180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could, umm, transwiki it somewhere?
< 1321383527 891110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll move it to my userspace and remove the links???
< 1321383532 265494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i wasn't joking :P
< 1321383535 148623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that'll do
< 1321383541 221738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll delete the redirect
< 1321383568 151503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I suspect it might be copyvio, checking now
< 1321383580 210137 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm remembering My name is Johny, what the F**K, or whatever it was
< 1321383585 19030 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good names for good wiki pages
< 1321383587 125533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not copyvio, I think it's a markovbot
< 1321383594 86914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Ehird/Newkitten tada
< 1321383597 448472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: elliott still needs to invent that language
< 1321383609 61230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm working on it!
< 1321383643 273279 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I pronounce the ** as vv in my head
< 1321383645 152230 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fvvk
< 1321383649 872603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the latest batch of spambots have a page they want to advertise, and the way they do it is by looking for a search that people are using to reach that page (maybe an unlikely one), then doing that search themself and markoving the results
< 1321383697 428262 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still like the spambots that replaced large chunks of page with compliments
< 1321383711 650161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catsandkittenstraining.com/Introducing-a-New-Kitten.html
< 1321383713 238072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like one as a pet if i could train it
< 1321383714 862144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stretched cat face is terrifying
< 1321383720 669535 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahah
< 1321383721 57919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you actually visited a spam link?
< 1321383725 911627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't, that justifies the spambots' existence
< 1321383726 493896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: absolutely!!
< 1321383732 264404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it, even one person visiting the link is a win for them
< 1321383738 611743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321383744 584374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... even a dog can learn these cat training techniques
< 1321383745 647498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cat Training Made Easy
< 1321383745 977863 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a dog can learn these cat training techniques
< 1321383746 919008 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321383753 301959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're promoting the spamming of Esolang by visiting spam links
< 1321383769 256568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | Even a dog can learn these cat training techniques | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321383774 160303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it's possible to unpromote spam
< 1321383792 560321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure they'd stop even if they got 0 visitors from every single wiki they spam
< 1321383845 945224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * 19:03, 15 November 2011 Ais523 (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "User:Newkitten" (redirect left behind after userfication of spam)
< 1321383856 932610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://features.peta.org/mario-kills-tanooki/
< 1321383861 601855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're just trying to bump up their Google rankings for searches
< 1321383875 910024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then visiting it should be irrelevant, no?
< 1321383881 57670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, don't we use nofollow?
< 1321383884 264516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do
< 1321383895 906520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but visiting the link directly is like bumping up the rankings, just more direct
< 1321383907 126344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321383912 799853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would spammers want high Google rankings, if not for pageviews?
< 1321383924 220583 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, peta
< 1321383960 700665 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLLLLLLLLLL
< 1321384000 333557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god "super tofu boy"
< 1321384010 753026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that real
< 1321384017 615663 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :super tofu boy is brilliant
< 1321384029 554710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it
< 1321384059 156540 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of now, I'm finally convinced that PETA is a troll
< 1321384072 906633 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Super Meat Boy have anything to do with meat other than the player being made of meat?
< 1321384077 571879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIP: Tofu Boy is not only sexy, he tastes good too!
< 1321384082 710604 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIP: Vegans do it better!
< 1321384087 159929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks peta
< 1321384102 536871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YM GOD IVE MADE MY USERPAGE HORRIFYING
< 1321384114 778287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think so :P
< 1321384131 709246 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god your userpage
< 1321384135 970072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can't be as bad as my wikipedia userpage
< 1321384139 41135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it is
< 1321384140 347637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Ehird
< 1321384140 794195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its
< 1321384141 632666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :staring
< 1321384142 60053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at me
< 1321384144 260609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1321384145 72896 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You replaced the snowman with something I can't see?
< 1321384150 186654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: It's CAT FACE
< 1321384163 980782 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a square
< 1321384171 164365 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ridiculous that there is a unicode symbol for snowman
< 1321384177 2261 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321384177 96921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321384178 770138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: Ngevd: http://i.imgur.com/b7NOS.png
< 1321384193 50022 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD
< 1321384201 548541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed that is hideos
< 1321384206 365700 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's great
< 1321384225 321693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only there was...cat snowman....
< 1321384227 283731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snowcat...
< 1321384250 459613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :snat
< 1321384261 858998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Ehird
< 1321384262 442952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321384271 183665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol scroll all the way to the right
< 1321384300 865426 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :super tofu boy has changed my ways
< 1321384301 963847 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cat
< 1321384306 373429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now pledge to be a vegan here: https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=2055&c=STBpvp&s_src=ppmisc
< 1321384315 188554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Ehird oh noooooooo
< 1321384326 51449 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahhhh broken thing
< 1321384331 309669 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :caaaaaaaaaat
< 1321384359 389465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat loves you
< 1321384365 448893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, fixed
< 1321384366 94505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is dumb and doesn't capture wiki urls correctly
< 1321384380 326672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: click the cat...btw...
< 1321384390 992826 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi doesn't capture URLs
< 1321384403 149205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321384407 117300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-terminal, rather
< 1321384412 52073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that.
< 1321384418 101143 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i saw.  good link...will you make a newkitten language...
< 1321384428 362334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: maybe..............
< 1321384434 586037 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I could... submit a bugreport with a.... a patch?
< 1321384438 424636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can you agree to make CCBI's fungespace slower so I don't have to resort to mutability
< 1321384439 328983 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is johny and i am a new kitten what the fvvk
< 1321384440 868697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog
< 1321384468 76344 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No
< 1321384480 488757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm, let's try that again
< 1321384482 145770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Please
< 1321384489 678704 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, no
< 1321384498 246455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn
< 1321384522 805376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uh, just to check, you do do the optimisation I'm thinking you do, right? (Caching the array that the IP is in to avoid hashtable lookups)
< 1321384556 686249 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, except that it's to avoid a linear scan, not a hashtable lookup
< 1321384558 363736 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid... hashtable lookups?
< 1321384577 900355 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Them things're expensive.
< 1321384582 729899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAH THE THEORETICALLY AVERAGE CONSTANT TIME, IT BURNS.
< 1321384589 726186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wait, why do you have a linear scan
< 1321384590 153839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the hash function look like?
< 1321384594 909103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "Average constant time" my ass
< 1321384610 1075 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because I don't have a bucket PR-CIF k-d tree
< 1321384613 391660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's constant time if you never do any inserts
< 1321384624 578630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You worry me
< 1321384628 496417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I don't have the power to render your ass in such an scalable manner.
< 1321384647 838221 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seriously, because I couldn't be bothered to do anything better and it works well enough :-P
< 1321384653 542023 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I am generally aware of how hash tables work. :P
< 1321384691 528482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Anyway, it matters when you'd be doing thousands and thousands of them per second
< 1321384700 87472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many instructions/s CCBI manages; Deewiant?
< 1321384719 932331 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ccbi -s might tell you, at least when combined with time(1)
< 1321384720 486242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with a slow hash function, this is true, yes.
< 1321384739 437564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Allow me to simplify this down to your level
< 1321384746 286966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not doing a hash-table lookup is faster than doing a hash-table lookup
< 1321384774 275703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say it wasn't slower, rather, that with a slow hash function /it matters/
< 1321384778 389118 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's what you said
< 1321384782 86262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd have to find a long-running benchmark that tests different kinds of instructions :P
< 1321384799 363036 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just run mycology a bunch of times? :-P
< 1321384799 543423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It matters when the goal is to be as fast as possible
< 1321384805 55781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure.
< 1321384816 505772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly goal.
< 1321384848 769365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "need for speed" hird.
< 1321384864 632835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Elliott "need for not having each Fungicide benchmark take over ten minutes to run" Hird
< 1321384885 905802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW, it sucks how your Fungicide table doesn't have units :P
< 1321384890 346723 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the simplest possible TC language is
< 1321384917 829943 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just think of those ten minutes as quality time you can spend enjoying your life, to kick back and let some of the pressure of everyday existence evaporate away.
< 1321384918 350275 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "simple" mean
< 1321384919 142598 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which one?
< 1321384926 739688 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Good question.
< 1321384928 640392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You only have one table
< 1321384939 215170 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was hoping for a link, but fine
< 1321384941 525311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: Probably self-BCT if it's TC
< 1321384944 343058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/fungicide-rankings/
< 1321384959 583805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses non-permalink. It's super effective!
< 1321384959 665834 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also simple: iota
< 1321384960 335806 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "All time measurements are in seconds (s) and all memory measurements are in mebioctets (Mio)."
< 1321384970 340421 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321384973 111456 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (Yes, it probably should be repeated closer to the table.)
< 1321384976 55798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's above the charts! :p
< 1321384985 327796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would just put the units in parens in the table headings.
< 1321384992 584280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay, right.
< 1321385001 587057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :54 gigs is pretty impressive RAM usage.
< 1321385005 759011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, so it's total, not maximum.)
< 1321385015 352644 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably did that but it made it flow badly or something.
< 1321385028 261380 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, measuring total RAM usage is totally relevant to something.
< 1321385098 19129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so what are the difficulties with implementing Checkout on a GPU?
< 1321385108 205307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a nice pretty bulleted list?
< 1321385113 712831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The fact that you can't program current GPUs at that level?
< 1321385128 569199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so you need to roll your own GPU
< 1321385129 549518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not sure "total RAM usage" even makes sense
< 1321385131 977519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like fun.
< 1321385134 986433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: RAM doesn't really accumulate
< 1321385141 234064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "RAM usage if you ran all the benchmarks at once" :P
< 1321385161 412265 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, current GPUs can be programmed at quite close to that level; most of Checkout's commands can be given explicitly, but some can't and you just have to hope the GPU figures out what you mean from an approximation
< 1321385174 461230 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, that's what I was saying, it's not really very sensible
< 1321385174 828748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Well, yeah, I said "that level", not "quite close"
< 1321385179 525992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think OpenCL has a checkout command :P
< 1321385181 698991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321385200 199223 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on a god-damn second
< 1321385216 508336 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CPU to GPU it does
< 1321385223 325052 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the readonly version too
< 1321385227 424915 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is self-BCT different from regular BCT?
< 1321385229 502915 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :within the GPU, it doesn't
< 1321385229 879833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Well, okay
< 1321385236 245941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No data stream
< 1321385256 274446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Could you make something else slower, then
< 1321385268 744882 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nah, I'm committed to keeping it fast
< 1321385278 916323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm
< 1321385283 654279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can I convince you to change your commitment
< 1321385289 571073 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt it
< 1321385295 665997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Money?
< 1321385308 879699 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How much? :-P
< 1321385313 859798 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to start building the computer.
< 1321385331 125209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *bomb
< 1321385334 408245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's what I'm asking
< 1321385336 66152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm still unclear on the order of some bits.
< 1321385346 564818 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How much can you offer?
< 1321385354 560236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Depends on how much you want!
< 1321385383 935312 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's not how it works; I don't need to tell you anything since you're the one with the need here
< 1321385391 37496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motherboard-CPU-RAM-PSU-GPU-HDD looks best, currently.
< 1321385397 102347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wow, offensive
< 1321385406 920473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Make sure Phantom_Hoover doesn't blow himself up, please
< 1321385417 965547 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't blow yourself up, please
< 1321385428 600119 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: best I can do :(
< 1321385429 901609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLARGH PPC WHY YOU NO WORK
< 1321385434 188554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Phantom_Hoover 2011-2011
< 1321385437 455722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, it would be a tragedy if all these expensive bomb parts were to go to waste, also me.
< 1321385462 313304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay how about... 200 pounds
< 1321385481 170600 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, won't do
< 1321385490 382060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 2000???
< 1321385509 135147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: eh humans mostly consume value.
< 1321385511 417810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very valuable.
< 1321385519 624097 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, phantom hoovers, however.
< 1321385526 5096 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be worth something.
< 1321385531 611925 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, I'd take that, assuming pounds = GBP
< 1321385531 914688 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are you trying to bribe Deewiant to slow down ccbi, when it's hilarious when it beats cfunge?
< 1321385541 155732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Because I want Shiro to beat it
< 1321385552 722235 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: elliott's trying to trick you, a ?? is rather small compared to a GBP
< 1321385555 56327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: And my options right now are slower fungespace, or mutable fungespace
< 1321385565 198969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you're maybe going about this from the wrong direction
< 1321385565 285736 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: heh
< 1321385570 334051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Latter is super ugly and doesn't go well with my "better code" goals for Shiro 2
< 1321385574 892253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Former is slower
< 1321385613 986211 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a case of Haskell not being able to achieve top speed without being ugly?
< 1321385615 505816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I would've made a new, faster interpreter with a different name anyway
< 1321385652 378058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mutable fungespace + abstractions = clean code + fast fungespace
< 1321385657 110444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Oh, it wouldn't be /uglier/ than CCBI
< 1321385658 497245 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heyo, works on SPARC :)
< 1321385667 803580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It'd just be uglier than a non-mutating fungespace
< 1321385688 599405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell very rarely ends up UGLIER when doing mutable shit to match the performance of other languages, it just doesn't end up any nicer :P
< 1321385695 729616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there was nothing radically wrong with my bomb assembly?
< 1321385708 242728 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, we want compilers to be able to infer mutability
< 1321385715 329331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You still need to handle the mutability, which needs sequencing, which is sort of the whole point
< 1321385717 497073 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you write a bunch of pure changes, and it changes them to mutations when it's safe
< 1321385724 151176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: That's called GC
< 1321385735 254836 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not quite the same thing as GC
< 1321385736 267381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: More seriously, uniqueness types/linear typing/whatever
< 1321385740 553133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you still have to sequence things there
< 1321385746 476919 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-and-GC-the-original is different from mutate-the-original
< 1321385751 275479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway you can want that all you want but it's very much sufficiently-smart-compiler territory
< 1321385768 380783 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(derlo deals with the problem by using a refcounting GC and mutating when the refcount is 1, but that's obviously not perfect)
< 1321385896 90534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Refcounting GC"?
< 1321385922 506692 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: refcounting is a sort of GC, IMO
< 1321385932 332721 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one that breaks on cyclic structures (in languagest that have them)
< 1321385944 19394 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd consider it a form of automatic memory management, but not GC.
< 1321385965 460253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: trivial semantic differences
< 1321385973 774205 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it collects garbage, how is that not garbage collection?
< 1321385974 522299 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways.
< 1321385976 510387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: argh, you're making me think about my lazy underload again :)
< 1321385988 527317 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't you /want/ distracting from @?
< 1321385998 707906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... yes
< 1321386009 935134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: but shiro 2 was managing that! sort of!
< 1321386016 457427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I am inclined to agree. so you know it's a legit stance. :)
< 1321386036 646478 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: "Garbage collection" to me refers to the class of memory management schemes that free things that are not referred to directly or indirectly from a root set.
< 1321386072 334898 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: refcounting /does/ that, just buggily
< 1321386076 360759 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like boehm-gc does
< 1321386083 313282 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the bugs are different in the two cases
< 1321386119 674741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, OK one last piece of static paranoia:
< 1321386127 17537 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Refcounting doesn't, really. There is never a "scan memory" step, there is only a "mutate reference count" step.
< 1321386148 528008 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "mutate reference count and if ==0 free()"
< 1321386153 363478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you know: Anti-static wrist straps work by directing the shocks to... YOUR HEART.
< 1321386155 541213 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attaching the strap to the case, then screwing the motherboard in, is enough to ensure no damage to components plugged into the motherboard, right?
< 1321386156 354526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENJOY YOUR DEATH
< 1321386177 495810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
< 1321386183 320759 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it'd make no sense for all the pins on the motherboard to be connected to its chassis ground
< 1321386187 883158 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then, they wouldn't do anything
< 1321386190 871193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, subleq would be good for refcounting
< 1321386192 235320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh.
< 1321386196 306384 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if the motherboard's just come out of packaging
< 1321386206 253421 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no obvious way it could have got charged in the first place
< 1321386222 6004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if I charge the case, which isn't itself grounded?
< 1321386236 957467 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ground" is relative.
< 1321386252 615813 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, it's absolute too
< 1321386265 616393 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when talking about static discharge, both are relevant
< 1321386268 687038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the case could still, pathologically, build up a charge relative to the motherboard.
< 1321386297 845373 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1321386304 852968 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what causes static charge buildup?
< 1321386312 722404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: if I recall correctly, I believe Python's refcounting scheme has a way to detect some cycles without resorting to weakrefs or something?
< 1321386312 936931 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it mostly involves actions by humans, such as walking)
< 1321386315 889991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My instinct is that it'd be fairly irrelevant for practical purposes, given that I'm not exactly wearing nylon clogs and skimming over wollen carpets.
< 1321386318 412864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*woolen
< 1321386325 713746 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best cure for static buildup is to discharge once before everything starts, and then just sit still
< 1321386331 69708 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't know
< 1321386343 656145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hehehehehe you're going to make PH sit as still as a rock, afraid to breathe
< 1321386350 793638 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl does refcounting without cycle breaks, but it's not a problem in practice as cyclic structures are rare, and when you want one, you add a delete method that breaks the cycle
< 1321386352 833585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate both of you?
< 1321386364 828866 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was a bit like that when I started
< 1321386384 91654 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh, no. it just uses a regular garbage collector to collect cyclic structures.
< 1321386398 900379 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and refcounting to collect everything else?
< 1321386399 543457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, that's python
< 1321386400 530586 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl also does refcounting without cycle breaks, but it's not a problem as you can't really do cyclic structures from the reference counting system's point of view.
< 1321386402 268607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to clip myself to the case and try not to worry too much.
< 1321386409 932088 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He was discussing Python.
< 1321386412 590623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't breathe too heavily, it'll cause a static discharge
< 1321386413 226162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh
< 1321386416 745279 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "this is python's garbage collection scheme"   "no, that's python"
< 1321386420 964594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321386423 740192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I DON'T CARE
< 1321386424 696488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because of the flantz bobnicator
< 1321386430 545708 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Yeah. It's probably the most pointless scheme.
< 1321386430 591019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and gluggunutz electrostatic hydromorphism
< 1321386443 321957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh, and yes. refcounting for everything else.
< 1321386444 300607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :experts shocked to discover that python is stupid
< 1321386451 437306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I'm still terrified to actually do anything argh
< 1321386451 482854 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's do all the simplicity of a garbage collector with all the speed of a reference counter!"
< 1321386464 57755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you, Coulomb!
< 1321386475 191726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyon's tried just removing the refcounter frmo Python.
< 1321386493 796213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reminder that idiots regularly assemble computers successfully.
< 1321386494 288184 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I almost said that Python has the most stupid per unit of popularity
< 1321386499 923106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I forgot about PHP.
< 1321386510 491772 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You are much more paranoid than you should be.
< 1321386514 526898 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Python tracing gc is disableable, though, if you're sure you're never creating any cycles.
< 1321386517 283898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but they're defended because their brain activity doesn't cause static buildup!
< 1321386523 468838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yesyesyes, I know.
< 1321386532 284755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is worse than php because not many people deefnd python
< 1321386536 728514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321386538 11308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is worse than php because not many people deefnd php
< 1321386539 636754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend
< 1321386544 448791 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Strange, it's the reference counting that you would want to turn off.
< 1321386551 617331 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless their GC is *really* bad.
< 1321386552 170126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrocuting computer ->
< 1321386610 964438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip Phantom_Hoover
< 1321386612 902476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well if you used weakrefs for cycles and then turned off the GC, I think refcount would be reasonably efficient (???)
< 1321386669 827681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a weakref being "a reference that doesn't increment the refcount"
< 1321386724 45533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutating the reference count and free if ==0 actually does a number on performance. That's a pipeline flush on basically every function call.
< 1321386745 441201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321386757 319678 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that malloc and free are actually not very speedy at allocation & deallocation.
< 1321386760 387892 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can turn off refcounting.
< 1321386772 26223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can
< 1321386774 77413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rip out the code
< 1321386777 745957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, yes.
< 1321386780 336726 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun with that.
< 1321386793 758459 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be horribly shocked if it weren't in a few macros.\
< 1321386804 47291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm though
< 1321386808 797453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kinda gc does python use
< 1321386809 288625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, yes it is
< 1321386814 355117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it interact with C extensions
< 1321386815 97738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321386820 367136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321386859 501341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think Python uses a custom allocator so that it can garbage collect C-level stuffs.
< 1321386885 774899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if your C extensions are well written, it should interact fine.
< 1321386909 961186 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Obviously* C extensions need to behave well with the GC already.
< 1321386918 458644 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on by default.
< 1321386925 504410 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that Python's GC is sufficiently bad that it would actually slow down :)
< 1321386942 780196 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have this discussion on #python
< 1321386960 984242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that people will defend python's amazing automatic memory management.
< 1321386964 251750 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fun.
< 1321386984 813728 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think #python can never be fun
< 1321387003 34884 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, I distinctly enjoy showing them my "unpythonic" code.
< 1321387010 236234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That'd be impressive.
< 1321387012 864361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers joining and saying "LOL PROJECT EULER"
< 1321387019 966499 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather possible, but impressive.
< 1321387036 872356 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: read: code that is "confusing" because it does too many things in one line.
< 1321387047 879431 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you use reduce
< 1321387055 441278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so.
< 1321387067 87720 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc python uses reference counting for "gc" ... though I wonder how it breaks loops
< 1321387067 533406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't recall what the code actually was.
< 1321387072 599362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it was unpythonic or something.
< 1321387077 541701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i love how people join in conversations in #esoteric
< 1321387078 567231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like
< 1321387080 277726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say something offhand
< 1321387081 78285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find folds much easier to read than for loops most of the time because i'm unpythonic weirdo
< 1321387081 316988 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321387083 816976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has been the topic of the conevrsation
< 1321387086 370153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the past ten minutes
< 1321387091 622111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without realising
< 1321387093 857011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things loop around again
< 1321387096 241892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it never stops
< 1321387098 281917 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1321387121 100593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huh, I wonder if Python's GC interacts well with C extensions. maybe you could turn refcounting off.
< 1321387131 898502 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read the last line, and if it's something I'd like to respond to I do
< 1321387185 771373 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321387210 361116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about a refcounting scheme that instead maintains a list of things to be freed
< 1321387219 631645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then frees when its sufficiently large but not too large.
< 1321387266 665973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still has the branching overhead, though.
< 1321387285 506626 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deeeerrrrpppp
< 1321387302 949852 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: help I am no good at low-levels
< 1321387318 405600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-86.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321387339 489943 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. malloc and free maintain a list of things that are free. free() does nothing but record "the block foo is free".
< 1321387362 515876 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A refcounting scheme that instead maintains a list of things to be freed would just duplicate work.
< 1321387491 903732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay.
< 1321387609 1847 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86, x86_64, SPARC, MIPS :)
< 1321387630 168167 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64?
< 1321387642 635731 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321387687 445778 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal: create an absolutely shitty implementation for a language of my design that becomes massively popular and attracts large numbers of fanatics.
< 1321387687 791877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But not ARM ha ha ha
< 1321387689 377262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $//
< 1321387699 689404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What about...... IA-64?
< 1321387713 523950 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321387727 988626 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't qemu IA-64 :P
< 1321387739 560310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://ski.sourceforge.net/??????
< 1321387753 186428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ski can be used in two operating mode: user- and system-mode. In user mode, you can run user level applications directly on top of the simulator. The emulation stops at the system call boundary. The system call is emulated by calling the host OS, such as x86 Linux. Conversions between 64-bit and 32-bit parameters are done by ski as needed. This allows fast execution of user programs. Most system calls are emulated, though the emulation is not alw
< 1321387753 320556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ays 100 percent accurate."
< 1321387760 87089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In system-mode, operating-system kernel development and execution is possible because interrupts and virtual memory behaviors are simulated. In this mode you can actually run the Linux kernel and, once booted, user applications can be run on top of the simulated kernel."
< 1321387765 765346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former sounds easier to test with :P
< 1321387797 138552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (The chances of it working on IA-64 are probably ~0)
< 1321387818 81296 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is that a bet? :P
< 1321387822 392687 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet you zero virtubux.
< 1321387823 971352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Absolutely
< 1321387825 476895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: never tell me the odds!
< 1321387831 49330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: VLIW is fucking weird :P
< 1321387849 782673 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, working with -O0 counts ;)
< 1321387862 994310 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, Debian doesn't have ski.
< 1321387866 83746 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll come back to it later :P
< 1321387903 400915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Clearly the Right Decision.
< 1321387904 643226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski must suck.
< 1321388007 230074 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321388040 262310 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ski or Die.
< 1321388143 236552 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep on coming back to OpenWatcom and going "Oh yeah, slow as shit"
< 1321388275 32453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watcom is so DOS game/demoscene. All the cool dudes had a copy.
< 1321388336 843099 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my warezzzed copy was 9.something.
< 1321388343 23338 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1321388347 704803 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why OpenWatcom is good fun.
< 1321388386 364800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie would know, he's the prime distributor of pirated QuickBasic copies nowadays.
< 1321388390 360758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... that might even be true.
< 1321388540 568190 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you'd find it on some shady "abandonware" sites that have gotten more downloads than a hypothetical fizzie.
< 1321388562 966826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but nowadays? e.g., giving it to hypothetical me onwards?
< 1321388568 103630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely people can't have downloadad it since then.
< 1321388569 28249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely.
< 1321388629 56329 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321388633 158106 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, never mind, Debian /does/ have ski.
< 1321388667 383866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THE RIGHT DECISION!!!\
< 1321388686 29249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I want Quick Basic 4.5 for DOS
< 1321388687 883368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn this program  but I have not this program, If you have this program, please tell me by e-mail where this program!
< 1321388691 38 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this program is free for me!
< 1321388693 660810 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :College student!"
< 1321388699 409616 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a top seller, I think!
< 1321388700 254197 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi what the secret of happiines?
< 1321388707 119199 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that was from 2000.
< 1321388735 172254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn this program / but I have not this program / If you have this program / please tell me by e-mail where this program!
< 1321388737 505956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTANT HIT.
< 1321388747 809770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also link.
< 1321388772 922635 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you can still buy it from http://www.emsps.com/oldtools/msbas.htm
< 1321388776 923908 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, quick basic 4.5! that's what I used to do my first programming :D
< 1321388779 990368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also browsed away already.
< 1321388810 30142 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was quite high up in the Google search for "quickbasic 4.5".
< 1321388856 229950 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Installin' an ia64 cross-dev env!
< 1321388874 576886 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only $99 if you want 3.5" floppies.
< 1321388891 33646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Aww ye
< 1321388897 716407 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus another $99 for the manual.
< 1321388915 870798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can't find it. :'(
< 1321388924 318245 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... ... how the hell do you use ski :P
< 1321388925 954736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUND IT
< 1321388931 99427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://ski.sourceforge.net/
< 1321388949 17276 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just point them downhill and GO.
< 1321388971 238397 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo it only MOSTLY works :(
< 1321388971 552095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows is written in mostly VB and VC++ if you ask me."
< 1321388983 317490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh no, I... I feel the BASIC Bug catching me once more.
< 1321388989 14851 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does the right things to the tape but can't call putchar :(
< 1321388996 248183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1321389004 669617 :Aune!~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se PART #esoteric :"Lmnar"
< 1321389244 259342 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321389339 161892 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also:
< 1321389339 537071 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -c full.c
< 1321389339 651570 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2650 full.c
< 1321389340 172125 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321389358 720407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ha ha ha
< 1321389464 165477 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish (read: I do not wish) C had a type qualifier that meant "this is a register and thou shalt not change it"
< 1321389501 188104 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC has that
< 1321389595 155380 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1321389603 703212 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :register int foo __asm__(...)
< 1321389612 558473 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I need a portablish solution :P
< 1321389688 27421 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321389689 102960 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1321389853 373005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why doesn't ARM work, again?
< 1321389898 941757 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It writes integer literals raw into .text then copies them by offsets from PC.
< 1321389942 476809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nice.
< 1321389970 167971 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which could work in principle, but there's no way I can detect it >_>
< 1321390086 236777 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, maybe ski just doesn't like output much ...
< 1321390185 335302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the other "variant" things?
< 1321390303 138426 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm
< 1321390382 477789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm becoming increasingly convince that ski sucks :P
< 1321390440 134069 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... ... failing to scanf("%d", &C); ???
< 1321390472 985735 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, moving on :P
< 1321390685 645638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc can't even produce a runnable program.
< 1321390836 444593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321390873 548765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the unfoog stands for
< 1321390904 772211 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a NetHack clan
< 1321390909 175912 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where it got its name from
< 1321390921 562102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321390996 894029 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, due to elliott's incompetence, I need to keep the motherboard, RAM and CPU in storage for a couple of days; do I disassemble them and put them all back in their original packaging?
< 1321391023 108983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I resemble that remark.
< 1321391025 82413 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's one possibility; the other is just putting them inside some antistatic wrapping
< 1321391033 336322 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or inside a metal box, like a computer case
< 1321391043 45053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case is the thing that needs replacing.
< 1321391043 390065 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just in any old place and discharge yourself before you touch them
< 1321391802 662335 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321392010 72914 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321392259 33741 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wine jitchards.exe < hello.jch
< 1321392259 189706 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :²
< 1321392261 735665 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not quite.
< 1321392440 175260 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello dear esolangs reddit! how are you today? (esolangs.org)  submitted 3 years ago by ehird
< 1321392493 107174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say there wasn't a market for that one.
< 1321392549 342140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you come to visit Australia, you are not likely to meet anything more dangerous than a dodgy kebab."
< 1321392553 813786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: quite
< 1321392577 560740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by a strange coincidence, the first and most dodgy kebab i ever got was in australia.
< 1321392586 917461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(today's iwc rerun)
< 1321392594 398875 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could turn the reddit over to fungot
< 1321392595 123475 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if ( sense ahead foe?) x" to give you a hint:
< 1321392640 777885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it smelled like puke, although it may have been just melted cheese.
< 1321392652 397760 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australia? The land of everything trying to kill you (especially that)?
< 1321392668 398641 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321392668 741180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's the subject of the rerun annotation, of course
< 1321392688 941942 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never had a Doner kebab
< 1321392697 191808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shish kebabs by the dozen, though
< 1321392733 645919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had both, i think.
< 1321392741 483987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i find it hard to believe you've been outside of norway, sorry.
< 1321392796 482189 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321392828 386055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kebab places are a dime a dozen in norway these days.  and my current favorite restaurant is run by a turkish kurd family
< 1321392858 977895 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, kebabs are generally sold by fish and chip shops
< 1321392872 113196 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how much does a kebab cost in norway?
< 1321392873 861143 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this sort of thing is why I use chicken burgers to compare fast food outlets
< 1321392876 695102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was just responding to the implication you'd been outside the country
< 1321392878 430044 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the vast majority of them sell them
< 1321392959 907858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hm i'm not sure for the late night fast food kind, which i haven't had for a long time.
< 1321392976 723329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere between 50-100 kr, i assume
< 1321393033 154336 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most pizzerias sell Kebab Pizza, a pizza with kebab meat and the aforementioned sauces as a topping, now the most popular pizza in Sweden."
< 1321393044 129355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321393049 721971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the kebab dinners at this restaurant are around 130-150)
< 1321393066 873867 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a kr in currency I know the value of?
< 1321393091 292253 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 Norwegian krone = 0.111008012 British pounds
< 1321393097 286133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :says google
< 1321393101 495974 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: 1 British pound = 9.00835879 Norwegian kroner
< 1321393104 691584 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about 11p
< 1321393114 440443 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I actually converted 0.11 to 1/9 and then back again
< 1321393136 295078 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 100kr = £11, which seems like quite a lot
< 1321393149 484239 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends carries around a 100kr note to make her feel rich
< 1321393168 88913 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's... $17. That's obscene.
< 1321393184 174100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian food is expensive, because of general cost level and our isolationist agricultural policy
< 1321393194 971115 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, food prices in the US are rather horribly fucked up.
< 1321393199 21000 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect somewhere from around £2 to £6 for that sort of fast food meal at a UK fast food shop, depending on quality
< 1321393211 935101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321393218 347303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :around here, the normal price for a kebab with fries would be around 70 SEK = 6.65 bounds
< 1321393229 703586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321393245 564143 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pita bread with no extras, about half that
< 1321393255 639832 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1321393258 596258 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same ballpark for US, I *think*. Kebab aren't quite common here, but that's around what it'd be for a similar sort of fast food thing.
< 1321393259 460495 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and it's served with burger dressing
< 1321393264 60928 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can't be bought for $5 or less, it ain't worth buyin'!
< 1321393266 640192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well it's probably closer to 50 than 100, i'm just hedging
< 1321393279 206069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, i hope.)
< 1321393280 548694 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: same ballpark as UK or Norway?
< 1321393285 77696 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: UK
< 1321393304 381375 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that the prices for directly comparable food between Ottawa and Birmingham were slightly more expensive, but not much more, in Ottawa
< 1321393311 184721 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think gyros (which is what we call what you call kebab sandwiches, as we call something completely unrelated kebab) are probably around $5.50 on average here. For just the sandwich.
< 1321393318 745982 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used an identical sandwich from Subway to make the comparison; you can't get much more standardised than that)
< 1321393351 921427 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "kebab sandwich" would be a weird combination; it's more common to hear just "kebab" and imply the other elements of the meal
< 1321393352 185931 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :subway is expensive for fast-food though
< 1321393365 544601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't everything expensive in norway :P
< 1321393369 293644 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, but I expected it to be consistent on both sides of the Atlantic
< 1321393376 76908 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Well, this isn't how we use those words :P
< 1321393390 272522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Twisted_Python_Chat_Server
< 1321393392 501289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twisted python chat server
< 1321393409 325929 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly an esolang.
< 1321393411 837059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Love_Dating_Quizzes
< 1321393413 728486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :love dating quizzes
< 1321393430 717103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :External links
< 1321393430 762377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia cambodian women datingonline dating servicesbad chat influence larelationship trustmistakes made by women in relationshipsa chat room
< 1321393456 331794 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twisted Python Chat Server really /could/ be an esolang
< 1321393485 993247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the random bolding.
< 1321393492 763322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's bolding all occurrences of the page title words.
< 1321393493 640409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So good.
< 1321393495 488089 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Yup, looks like the prices between something at Subway in the US and the UK are comparable.
< 1321393496 426138 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :twisted python chat server could also just be a chat server written in python using the twisted framework
< 1321393509 63803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's what the article is about
< 1321393512 956667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's *slightly* more expensive in the UK?
< 1321393516 458464 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that's probably the same spambot that advertised Google, I haven't seen it for ages
< 1321393527 57499 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link [http://en.wikipedia.org Wikipedia] gives it away
< 1321393546 656866 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it wouldn't surprise me; I also think it depends on how central you are and in which city you were
< 1321393561 548840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't everything expensive in norway :P <-- yeah probably.  actually i vaguely recall from a recent newspaper article that we may be doing well on medical drugs.
< 1321393569 237623 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only really got to compare with central Ottawa, which wouldn't surprise me at all if it was significantly more expensive than in some small town
< 1321393577 625136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thank god!
< 1321393599 746727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps that was sweden.  i'm not quite sure.
< 1321393601 165860 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Prices in fast food chains *generally* are consistent nation-wide.
< 1321393606 218462 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you edit Twisted Python Chat Server into a real esolang, changing as little in the page as possible?
< 1321393608 635177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm my only mental associations for ottawa are "capital of canada, pretty"; dunno where that second one came from
< 1321393612 437213 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: not here, especially not Subway
< 1321393615 645037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: M...maybe?
< 1321393619 177811 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it varies even within Birmingham
< 1321393628 271870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It'd probably change most of the page :P
< 1321393636 136978 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1321393637 632436 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so
< 1321393654 364227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and electricity is still _somewhat_ cheaper in norway, although the common nordic market has reduced that difference a lot.
< 1321393679 678896 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect part of that is that our idea of "fast food" developed out of McDonalds, which is basically run on a "make everything as consistent as humanly possible" kick.
< 1321393685 252741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(> 90% hydroelectric)
< 1321393710 893200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with my name is johny, what the f**k? is that an esolang has to be really good to be worthy of that name
< 1321393711 339165 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: will you take long enough that it's worth deleting the page meanwhile?
< 1321393715 725408 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321393717 75900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: most likely, yes
< 1321393723 946184 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, I have a better idea
< 1321393874 874771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: go on
< 1321393884 992679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321393893 906405 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see it on the wiki?
< 1321393928 152032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321393962 490576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you /sure/ there isn't a simpler way to do n-cursor zippers? :P
< 1321394347 3684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm sure oleg could find one.
< 1321395167 177495 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321395254 781396 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-214.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321395263 489028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :'(
< 1321395268 390097 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321395312 154597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i recall some stuff i thought of before
< 1321395361 980476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if you wanted to do zippers with n cursors on arbitrary trees, you'd need a way to represent trees with several root leaves
< 1321395381 561410 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-11.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321395382 863574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321395394 230629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for just _two_ cursors and a tree that is a straight line, this is basically Seq
< 1321395435 297225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321395439 982489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your representation of a zipper would need to cut up the large tree at each cursor, and to be able to modify each resulting tree close to where the cursor is
< 1321395452 714529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1321395453 242134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note i am thinking of the large tree as _unrooted_ here.)
< 1321395486 734461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since in spirit a zipper of a tree is basically about ignoring where the usual root is
< 1321395487 494820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sounds quite reassuring, since Seqs are not quite as slow to mutate as your n-cursor zippers would be :P
< 1321395511 544490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing is this doesn't work for more than 2 cursors touching a subtree
< 1321395531 789019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it needs to be a more refined structure
< 1321395570 910333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm _this_ refined structure is where that median stuff from my never published paper was relevant
< 1321395590 975429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor never-published paper :(
< 1321395594 546773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because whenever you have three points on a tree, there is a unique median point
< 1321395598 520021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh
< 1321395666 597274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is either the one of the three points which separates the other two, or some fourth point which separates all the original three
< 1321395775 534489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that this median point is canonical, it _might_ give a canonical way to split subtrees into Seq's of subtrees
< 1321395810 321365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh. this is sounding super elegant :P
< 1321395814 896812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(UNLIKE THE LAST TIME)
< 1321395822 414158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all something i thought about long ago when pondering n-cursor zippers
< 1321395902 544841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the lonely people, where do they all belong?
< 1321395914 481916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--sartre
< 1321395929 73867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what's the obstalce to just applying that directly to a quadtree? :P
< 1321395936 435045 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ha
< 1321395949 488828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--hitler
< 1321395971 422463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've never tried to wrap my head around the details
< 1321395993 905427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wrapping your head around something is usually not good for it.
< 1321396012 588967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrap and chew
< 1321396032 942585 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321396044 477441 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't understand. I can't wrap my head around your head.
< 1321396056 853064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, i'm listening >:)
< 1321396063 570269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to become a boa constrictor first
< 1321396068 823163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so this should actually allow fast mutation from n cursors, right?
< 1321396072 126959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if possible
< 1321396080 150966 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321396236 470812 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm sweet potato and beet chips.
< 1321396248 339867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people eat potato chips again?
< 1321396336 43750 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're a salty delight?
< 1321396353 772744 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: they taste nice; I ate some earlier today (although they're called crisps in the UK)
< 1321396361 191698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1321396387 76762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: promising!
< 1321396412 558018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321396421 655793 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ate a whole bag of these chips. Hopefully I won't get vitamin A poisoning.
< 1321396452 669956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm those median points would become sort of virtual extra cursors, perhaps
< 1321396462 412611 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Researchers have succeeded in creating water-soluble forms of vitamin A, which they believed could reduce the potential for toxicity.[44] However, a 2003 study found water-soluble vitamin A was approximately 10 times as toxic as fat-soluble vitamin.[45] A 2006 study found children given water-soluble vitamin A and D, which are typically fat-soluble, suffer from asthma twice as much as a control group supplemented with th
< 1321396468 316858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf kind of study is that.
< 1321396501 406966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1321396510 338315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but -> WHERE???
< 1321396516 554383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :crapper
< 1321396520 453078 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321396526 466951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: don't ask oerjan that in future
< 1321396560 744290 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?welcome
< 1321396562 544838 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome: not found
< 1321396564 166695 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome
< 1321396566 565260 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321396571 691500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ ais523\unfoog ? welcome
< 1321396572 713051 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly enough Vitamin A poisoning causes blurry vision. weird.
< 1321396574 154801 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321396614 594719 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321396637 665901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello, world!
< 1321396639 760947 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​125 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [169]
< 1321396654 538698 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321396679 939285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ Betawolf ? welcome
< 1321396682 156398 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321396716 640946 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no fair making me direct my random welcomes at people in particular
< 1321396730 290751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523\unfoog
< 1321396758 212473 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can one-up that: http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?735
< 1321396761 761454 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(happened earlier today)
< 1321396777 365892 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ elliott `@ ais523\unfoog `@ monqy `echo hi
< 1321396779 300879 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exec: 9: `@: not found
< 1321396790 74789 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ elliott @ CakeProphet @ monqy @ echo hi
< 1321396791 958329 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CakeProphet: monqy: exec: 9: hi: not found \ echo:
< 1321396792 844300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ elliott @ ais523\unfoog @ monqy echo hi
< 1321396795 292822 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ais523\unfoog: monqy: hi
< 1321396810 780301 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ ais523\unfoog yes
< 1321396812 887501 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
< 1321396817 519608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: heh
< 1321396831 390723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes @ ais523\unfoog
< 1321396833 205786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @ ais523\unfoog \ @
< 1321396837 878168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run `yes @ ais523\unfoog`
< 1321396839 240816 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I shouldn't be surprised. It's -that- usage of 'esoteric'
< 1321396846 806797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: :-D
< 1321396853 959345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: We often get people expecting the other kind.
< 1321396858 695966 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: you know both usages? and came here willing to talk about either?
< 1321396869 389218 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: xrealloc: ../bash/subst.c:4952: cannot allocate 67108864 bytes (134258688 bytes allocated)
< 1321396872 457955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1321396877 924811 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for a given value of 'willing'.
< 1321396893 669324 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you almost killed me there
< 1321396900 187794 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was intending to lurk, lurkerly.
< 1321396902 888833 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally; I was drinking a glass of water and started laughing at HackEgo's response
< 1321396909 409824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sincerest apologies. I will be more effective next time.
< 1321396925 277623 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but luckily managed to not choke
< 1321396933 334868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: Lurking is so cliché; just ask yiyus.
< 1321396934 599449 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((y )S:^):^
< 1321396934 692134 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y  ...too much output!
< 1321396939 748265 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((y \ )S:^):^
< 1321396939 903114 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \  ...too much output!
< 1321396942 743139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Zetro. Or yorick.
< 1321396955 444832 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload > hackego at repeating y \
< 1321396991 446006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc -e "99 + 42"
< 1321396998 179843 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :141
< 1321397001 893652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow that was slow.
< 1321397013 435525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc -e "print (99 + 42)"
< 1321397017 829087 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :141
< 1321397028 312214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :       -e expr
< 1321397028 525971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              Evaluate expr; see for details.
< 1321397028 571265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--man ghc
< 1321397032 126053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees for details.
< 1321397032 517655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -e compiles correct?
< 1321397038 940728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I doubt it.
< 1321397043 574950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I need to see for details.
< 1321397048 450881 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat 'y'
< 1321397049 491168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...
< 1321397050 165043 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just echoing via bash?
< 1321397052 230141 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just look, dude.
< 1321397065 133158 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> flatten $ repeat "y \\ "
< 1321397066 81398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `Data.Tree.Tree a'
< 1321397066 226072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred ty...
< 1321397067 126261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "y\n"
< 1321397068 104596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "y\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\ny\...
< 1321397072 374114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it uses the interpreter, I think.
< 1321397075 98039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ cycle "y\n"
< 1321397075 610341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: HackEgo, you mean?
< 1321397076 158414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  y
< 1321397076 310797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397076 356216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397076 356388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397076 356492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397078 170531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21 @more lines]
< 1321397082 616849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploit
< 1321397084 186775 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more
< 1321397084 577559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397084 740217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397084 810286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397086 127103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397086 370363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: It's a fully-sandboxed, persistent Linux system.
< 1321397088 233365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1321397089 595390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: Our QDB is based on it.
< 1321397090 263528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16 @more lines]
< 1321397091 368655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also stop that guys.
< 1321397100 143240 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to stop after the one @more
< 1321397134 568127 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: HackEgo basically runs arbitrary commands, with protection against doing silly things
< 1321397151 349133 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run :(){:|:&};:
< 1321397153 315865 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&};:'
< 1321397157 55444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321397160 756745 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I mean?
< 1321397163 924367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run : () { : | : & } ; :
< 1321397166 189061 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321397170 300953 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was what I was worrying about.
< 1321397172 976082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321397173 615905 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, I was curious as to why the space was needed, guess I know now)
< 1321397174 186020 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321397182 899988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kept in a repository: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321397191 300597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can revert even if the whole system inside is broken.
< 1321397193 544135 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the repo called fshg?
< 1321397204 877062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystem hg
< 1321397216 167786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual code is at /hg/
< 1321397222 266307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I presume that's what it stands for
< 1321397228 12073 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1321397252 565744 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys may be interested in a friend of mine's old project - a brainfuck interpreter written in javascript.
< 1321397272 230297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not BestFriends. Please tell me it's not BestFriends.js.
< 1321397275 643443 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://extremetomato.com/interesting/brainfuck/
< 1321397280 231924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew*
< 1321397312 242922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it doesn't support infinite tapes :)
< 1321397317 328500 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wrote a proper compiler, too, but I don't think there's a public link for it.
< 1321397340 772440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :state-of-the-art BF compiler.
< 1321397350 779094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that would be esotope, presumably
< 1321397363 47005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so Betawolf knows what I'm referring to: https://bitbucket.org/lifthrasiir/esotope-bfc/overview)
< 1321397373 468588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is unqise to [resum
< 1321397381 278607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1321397405 818552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321397406 500583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1321397475 545610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have figured out.
< 1321397484 764673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You can run but you cannot hide@
< 1321397485 516190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1321397497 782862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how whenever anyone joins the channel explodes in activity.
< 1321397523 234013 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321397530 685792 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, I'll put him onto it
< 1321397533 36525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 + 2
< 1321397534 192197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  4
< 1321397541 288839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: we like bots.
< 1321397546 668956 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't noticed.
< 1321397548 849519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1321397548 894711 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1321397553 928698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We like bots written in esolangs MOST OF ALL.
< 1321397562 269190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say hi to Betawolf.
< 1321397562 457329 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " and this is a new game. there is no
< 1321397565 503541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321397565 641378 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321397567 77498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1321397567 122848 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1321397570 467721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You can do better than that.
< 1321397570 853860 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a ged file *is* notation... i barely fnord across the scheme/ vm/
< 1321397577 647444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Come on. One long one.
< 1321397577 818949 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the negative list makes a list from return values :p i want to
< 1321397581 235155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up.
< 1321397588 245761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl
< 1321397588 291118 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
< 1321397595 884929 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: make a motion
< 1321397596 902730 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, since i only have one main objective of the isd which is due for adoption by the end of 1999, which attempted to establish minimum requirements. mrs schreyer, that, in the absence of criticism of it, which does not allow it to provide criteria, after which we should like to end by emphasising the fact that it has an opportunity to work for the betterment of the people, by their nature, very undiscipli
< 1321397639 594524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: referendum denied
< 1321397639 775445 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: may i start by thanking parliament once again.
< 1321397639 933639 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that random sampling, as in that really well-known bot I can't remember the name of?
< 1321397647 740913 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a markovbot
< 1321397665 28658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: marko v. shaney, perhaps?
< 1321397665 173274 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works out the next word to say statistically, by seeing the probability that words are used in that context
< 1321397676 695676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/o//
< 1321397715 393134 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, actually NLP, cool
< 1321397731 352647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for some value of nlp :-)
< 1321397750 51599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: more like a markov chain. a big markov chain.
< 1321397751 170774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure.
< 1321397760 241196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: it's just based on how many times a word follows a context of a certain length
< 1321397765 471582 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I remember the process from AI
< 1321397782 605194 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe humans are just big sexy markov chains.
< 1321397785 626092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is AI.
< 1321397796 708414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: THINK!
< 1321397797 311851 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, the commission, the scope of monetary policy is compatible with the completion of the internal political situation in burma. political pressure will have to pay out the funds. pensions should not be overestimated. a peaceful and lasting settlement.
< 1321397801 982594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is our other markov chain bot.
< 1321397868 786263 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, suck my balls, sir. thank you parliament.
< 1321397890 118641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: You should kick the worst channel members whenever someone new comes in.
< 1321397891 838865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with me.
< 1321397912 783179 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, would keep the place fresh.
< 1321397918 601886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try #esoteric-minheap
< 1321397943 333927 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a -maxheap too where you just kicked the /best/ channel members whenever someone new comes in
< 1321397958 880058 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be fun to see who was still there in a year's time
< 1321397966 101899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet.
< 1321397988 948641 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have to be very persistent to stay there despite the bunch of lurkers and crazy people
< 1321398008 451229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And yet somehow, #esoteric survives.
< 1321398014 737853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Placenta "persistence" Prophet
< 1321398032 266665 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :may the worst one win.
< 1321398058 911605 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the BF Joust hill before it was fixed
< 1321398100 282604 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust it_shouldnt_go_on_the_hill_with_this_nick (>)*8(>[-])*21
< 1321398108 12684 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_unfoog_it_shouldnt_go_on_the_hill_with_this_nick: 20.4
< 1321398121 44242 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me that didn't /actually/ end up on the hill
< 1321398134 12729 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it did as well
< 1321398134 82621 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely I'm not the worst channel member. Perhaps units of bad per units of regularity.
< 1321398196 615586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you won't know until next time
< 1321398240 99380 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not in last place, or anywhere near it
< 1321398241 458832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -pe0
< 1321398241 504123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ghc -e interact\ id
< 1321398247 325310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Haskell is about twice as bad as Perl!
< 1321398252 641296 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 44th out of 48
< 1321398254 989891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1321398260 13320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : note to self: don't ask oerjan that in future <-- i'd have thought leaving it out would be a hint.
< 1321398272 237010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, we are now having a backscroll session.
< 1321398283 40706 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it beats almost all my programs
< 1321398287 703053 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is up with my decoy setup?
< 1321398309 299991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nothing interesting happened! now TELL ME MORE.
< 1321398318 927165 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I miscounted, more like half
< 1321398320 290587 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still…
< 1321398334 966519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf republican party.
< 1321398524 797701 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf (insert political entity here)
< 1321398536 347956 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :distinctly not as bad as the republican party.
< 1321398543 13797 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321398551 123590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf ais523\unfoog
< 1321398611 698170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf oerjan\unfoog
< 1321398617 573141 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is unfoog?
< 1321398627 221568 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack clan
< 1321398637 491983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack...clan?
< 1321398645 302325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's start a df clan.
< 1321398650 924871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1321398672 65437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can, uh
< 1321398677 854277 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :play dwarf fortress, and talk about it
< 1321398680 551521 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have a name.
< 1321398733 528270 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine dwarf fortress is difficult to play outside of dwarfism conventions.
< 1321398753 177198 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321398754 337111 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and combine points in the annual dwarf fortress tournament?
< 1321398755 428890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321398797 232387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: I think it'd be just as difficult within those.
< 1321398800 974672 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must be difficult to stack, too.
< 1321398827 520705 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321398834 238798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/screens/dwf5.png <-- dwarfism convention
< 1321398840 532963 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not overly resistant to bombardment...
< 1321398886 499833 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION envisages a stack of dwarves balanced on each other
< 1321398900 40387 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pushed them over, you could just pop them back up again
< 1321398919 60581 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If trained, they could spring back up of their own accord.
< 1321398950 420137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, i'm back to not believing the channel is actually having the conversation it is
< 1321398955 42874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a worrying bout of sanity
< 1321399002 9220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: You can run but you cannot hide@ <-- i hide in the past
< 1321399013 753382 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity!
< 1321399074 142403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It's so solid.
< 1321399127 10097 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is going mad a reasonable cure for depression, btw?
< 1321399137 5524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, um, how serious is this question?
< 1321399139 788404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes
< 1321399154 929416 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not completely frivolous, but substantially frivolous
< 1321399171 101241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANADispenserOfSubstantiousFrivolity
< 1321399178 780294 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321399190 24461 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel I need to keep Feather around in case of emergencies
< 1321399209 628216 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manic depression is a form of both mad and depressed, if that's at all unhelpful.
< 1321399216 31086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm depressed, time to work on Feather"
< 1321399233 788311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Great, now I'm a depressed time traveller."
< 1321399272 510305 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather doesn't actually time-travel its users, that would be absurd
< 1321399281 159668 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/inb4 "Feather is absurd anyway"
< 1321399310 146377 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel I have to ask what Feather is, other than not a time-travel device.
< 1321399320 327220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: time to use your op powers for good
< 1321399325 43308 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: don't expect a straight answer
< 1321399326 792360 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure there is one
< 1321399331 988907 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somewhere between esolang and injoke
< 1321399338 77289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather, further answers can be derived from reading http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321399349 911321 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urge to do nothing is overwhelming.
< 1321399379 864779 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: then do something about it!
< 1321399386 945355 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I did that once.
< 1321399389 131479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: nothing interesting happened! now TELL ME MORE. <-- well i'm thinking that the virtual cursors that split the tree will be the median subalgebra generated by the real cursor nodes.  you would need a map from real to virtual, and a map from virtual to neighboring Seq subtrees on each side.
< 1321399389 176859 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..nah
< 1321399412 973821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok. this is sounding significantly more manageable :P
< 1321399444 838110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my motto is, as long as you have less than 15 constructors, you're good
< 1321399445 809590 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: summary: imagine a prototyping OO language, except that instead of delegation or similar concepts, you use time travel
< 1321399454 333169 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :explaining more will cause me to go mad, so I don't want to
< 1321399508 246352 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken! Embrace the inevitable.
< 1321399528 437084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf does not Know.
< 1321399531 839111 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, after a while of working on Feather, I couldn't take it any more, and everyone (correctly) accused me of chickening out
< 1321399538 819810 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the language has since become an inside joke
< 1321399549 488765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: use futures!
< 1321399552 486876 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-11.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Clearly* it must be implemented in Haskell.
< 1321399559 658236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-11.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already has time travel semantics, after all.
< 1321399571 722415 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time travel semantics aren't even the difficult bit
< 1321399588 421925 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were worked out early on, and are very sane, and unproblematic
< 1321399600 741710 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the prototype OO that's unsettling?
< 1321399605 366184 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major problem with Feather is that it's metacircularly implemented in itself, back to infinity
< 1321399623 344409 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever I try to work out if this actually makes sense or not, I conclude that it does but I'm going about it wrong
< 1321399636 101188 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not metacircularly
< 1321399637 933304 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from scratch
< 1321399646 600553 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'd take infinitely long for it to do anything
< 1321399657 540888 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question is how you implement a language in itself without using any of its language constructs
< 1321399690 282186 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that doesn't make sense. :-)
< 1321399711 362027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: the version that makes sense isn't vague enough to not make ais523\unfoog go insane
< 1321399735 983767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Did anything come out of you fixing the issue with your previous prototype interpreter?
< 1321399741 209571 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a certain madness is requisite.
< 1321399741 254819 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell seems to be invaded by kids
< 1321399760 60107 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's 'in' at the moment.
< 1321399762 885935 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't fix the issue with it
< 1321399768 820781 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To great dismay.
< 1321399771 682218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, you fixed /one/ issue with it.
< 1321399773 473660 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, if you're talking about a different issue, I did
< 1321399776 944380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: Dismay?
< 1321399779 815876 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why \unfoog?
< 1321399783 556093 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all it proved is that I wasn't completely crazy
< 1321399785 849861 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: NetHack clan
< 1321399790 71114 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log NetHack clan
< 1321399801 85187 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, it stops being niche and cool when everyone's doing it.
< 1321399815 9024 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-15.txt:23:29:45:  coppro: NetHack clan
< 1321399826 598792 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why it picked that one?
< 1321399826 644023 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluh
< 1321399828 28378 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log NetHack clan
< 1321399835 48573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has changed nickname to elliott\unſoog
< 1321399835 362352 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-15.txt:23:29:45:  coppro: NetHack clan
< 1321399847 248369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I TAKE IT YOU'RE EXPANDING ON THAT NOW >:)
< 1321399861 316283 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ><{{{}::LLKLMH@A;'`hi`1 s
< 1321399873 204774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: no problem.  they'll just add more type features until no one understands anything and it'll be niche and cool again.
< 1321399883 173081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1321399889 835772 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Though I appreciate 'niche' might not really apply as a label for haskell, given the channel we're in.
< 1321399899 828753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@
< 1321399901 735722 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what?
< 1321399903 793275 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1321399904 993578 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1321399905 101352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f [a,b,c,d]
< 1321399905 322574 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: what?
< 1321399906 82569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr [SimpleReflect.Expr])
< 1321399906 307749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising fr...
< 1321399907 16252 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is almost as esoteric as Perl, which is a genuine esolang.
< 1321399907 358252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z [a,b,c,d]
< 1321399908 437789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  f a (f b (f c (f d z)))
< 1321399917 986320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betawolf: we keep haskell around for when we need to accomplish _real_ work.
< 1321399927 470146 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in my case, OCaml + Perl
< 1321399934 490651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps if you can avoid using something so practical, though
< 1321399936 348598 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no qualms about even mixing the languages when necessary
< 1321399943 90670 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect people think I'm mad as a result
< 1321399951 482552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I think u am hero
< 1321399954 623135 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1321399965 546591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: kick CakeProphet please
< 1321399967 654284 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ski is shiiiit
< 1321399975 374440 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: as in the combinators?
< 1321399983 123662 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are hate me?
< 1321399995 625512 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321400019 66879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott mad
< 1321400032 741731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MORE ABOUT N-CURSOR ZIPPERS PLZ
< 1321400040 772886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: trees
< 1321400041 520833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad and infectious
< 1321400097 332962 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: As in the ia64 simulator.
< 1321400148 437029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow my back
< 1321400170 829561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you so good. warm in my heartgut.
< 1321400213 770670 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has happened to this channel?
< 1321400227 701020 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gone downhill, and I fear it's my fault
< 1321400276 354571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just now or longer-term? :-P
< 1321400316 786322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: perhaps you just have unrealistic expectations
< 1321400323 272620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, that #esoteric might save the world.
< 1321400344 821906 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's always a chance
< 1321400347 297531 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: both, actually
< 1321400362 576042 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember which I meant
< 1321400362 724551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: This channel has always been terrible.
< 1321400368 902059 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just assume I'm drunk at the moment, it simplifies things
< 1321400391 404870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, ais523\unfoog had dairy. Or something.
< 1321400412 608514 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just tired
< 1321400423 207551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing!
< 1321400425 312527 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski really sucks at I/O >_>
< 1321400432 449968 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ais523 gets "drunk" in the same way I do?
< 1321400458 192835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321400465 164348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just weird.
< 1321400473 174459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Exactly why deviated septum medical procedures? Along with a greater problem that is experienced the particular surgery. Ahead of these queries might be responded successfully, a brief release in to exactly what a deviated septum can be should be examined. The actual nose septum is the portion of the nose which divides the actual nose pathways. Your septum comprises of the two bone tissu
< 1321400473 254484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e and cartilage.
< 1321400486 221787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remarkably there's a single occasional actress who's occupation sustained as a result of the nasal surgical treatment was Jennifer Gray. Many will don't forget your ex through the woman's noticably motion pictures becoming Dirty Dance, as well as Red-colored Beginning. After the woman's role inside the film Unclean Bouncing, Greyish decided to have a very nasal work to remove your lump via your ex nost
< 1321400487 674637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ril.
< 1321400493 327468 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two or five?
< 1321400512 127245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what?
< 1321400512 639581 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, just one
< 1321400516 716864 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bizarre change of topic
< 1321400532 545462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like fries with that?
< 1321400533 366879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two or five what?
< 1321400540 255806 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: spam pages
< 1321400540 779462 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is elliott posting spam?
< 1321400547 138126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I'm actually the wiki spammers.
< 1321400549 885813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't tell anyone.
< 1321400557 204654 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I /hope/ it isn't elliott
< 1321400557 892041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that would explain so much...
< 1321400564 445211 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is him, he has a bunch of proxies
< 1321400570 625590 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(according to internet meme, seven)
< 1321400570 938985 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, seen spam into here
< 1321400580 79599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: please kick elliott for spam.
< 1321400582 575020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing I posted was spam.
< 1321400586 666874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had no unsolicited links or whatever.
< 1321400642 869668 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does unsolicited stupidity count as? And please don't say that I'm a producer.
< 1321400656 962660 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I need on-demand confusion yuck yuck
< 1321400663 141145 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was posted in #esoteric for a moment
< 1321400673 84146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: You write your own material, dude.
< 1321400690 443336 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have been watching /Unsolicited Stupidity/ ~ Producer: elliott ~ Director: SgeoN1
< 1321400707 372231 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a decent name for a film
< 1321400727 764982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: from Substantious Frivolity Productions
< 1321400740 444013 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I actually say "substantious"?
< 1321400749 169360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that was me
< 1321400757 436846 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [^]"]substantious
< 1321400762 255081 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-15.txt:23:19:31:  IANADispenserOfSubstantiousFrivolity
< 1321400812 532803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: cheat!
< 1321400827 989366 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's cheating there?
< 1321400847 197057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi hi hi
< 1321400849 378652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: [^]"]
< 1321400861 286691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wait, does [^] actually /work/?
< 1321400868 917067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /special-cases the first character/?
< 1321400874 618474 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only when it's ]
< 1321400878 163368 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -
< 1321400882 658477 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, special-cases - as last character
< 1321400890 266542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries.
< 1321400894 942581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ho ho ho
< 1321400909 485530 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my regex for matching BF comments is along the lines of [^][<>,.+-]
< 1321400910 853180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi zippers..... please???
< 1321400915 907068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: ouch
< 1321400951 618031 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl lets you write it as [^\[\]\+\-\,\.\<\>] instead
< 1321400954 201649 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather clearer
< 1321400959 997633 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a bit backslashy
< 1321400993 957248 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of other languages, like Python/Ruby/Java, ripped off Perl's regexes
< 1321401003 936437 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321401010 399877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in peace ais
< 1321401028 858245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pl.s........
< 1321401052 203488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1321401076 629610 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-11.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321401078 738873 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321401127 893340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is intuitively equivalent to collapsing as much of the tree as possible while keeping it a tree and the real cursors distinct
< 1321401141 774666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321401147 374282 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321401202 684616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a Seq of trees is a representation of a line resulting from collapsing between two nodes
< 1321401209 147736 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321401246 826661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :controlled demolition: the zipper story
< 1321401355 686854 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321401406 383454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not quite sure, but i think the number of virtual cursors cannot be more than twice the number of real ones
< 1321401458 240328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thereabouts.
< 1321401504 562782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321401580 61628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lookup of stuff is hopefully O(log n) in the number of cursors
< 1321401593 282343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a Map
< 1321401613 693057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean, looking at the value at a cursor?
< 1321401626 288365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not bad
< 1321401647 161906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, finding the neighboring Seq's and stuff
< 1321401661 500895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, OK
< 1321401666 653054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so accessing the value at a cursor is still O(1)?
< 1321401669 292871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321401677 409943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that should be possible
< 1321401689 130968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321401718 15177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is probably more interested in the mutation performance :P
< 1321401820 404537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to move a cursor along an edge, you would need to look up the neighboring Seq's and adjust them
< 1321401869 577649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh in addition to neighboring Seq's there may also be neighboring collapsed trees with no other cursors adjacent
< 1321401897 945214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may not be following as closely as i thought >:)
< 1321401904 845353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you have any idea what this would look like for an actual tree structure?
< 1321401923 240048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this may be a graph minor construction
< 1321401951 382610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321402119 706432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so basically each Seq can have up to 2 cursors as parents?
< 1321402123 151655 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321402125 148979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-.-.-*-.-.      *-*
< 1321402125 194340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :      |       ->   |
< 1321402125 194525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :  .-*-.-.-*      *-+-*
< 1321402129 479168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes
< 1321402152 467728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's pretty :')
< 1321402163 776869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left part is the original tree with *'s as real cursors, the right is the collapsed tree, + is a virtual cursor
< 1321402215 320808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321402294 175236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what would be wrong with a BST of cursors that point to Seq leaves? (I don't think this terminology makes sense when dealing with graphs but whatever)
< 1321402299 212166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of the right part - and | would be a Seq of the lines collapsed to it.  oh hm i guess that doesn't show how there might be additional trees on those lines that are collapsed
< 1321402307 787055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a BST again
< 1321402311 472339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary search tree.
< 1321402335 975929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's something like what i'm imagining
< 1321402353 354616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is exactly what I'm imagining. :P
< 1321402378 336745 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could use a 2-3 tree or some variation of a BST.
< 1321402389 26475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's just a dictionary?
< 1321402400 70356 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes.
< 1321402482 974886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by dictionary you mean a map implemented as a binary search tree. :)
< 1321402499 753499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's afaik what haskell's Data.Map is.
< 1321402505 193499 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321402529 924917 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait so what about... Seq Cursors?
< 1321402543 556340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321402546 212161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1321402546 944218 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321402599 704010 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in use a 2-3 finger tree to store a sequence of cursors, which point to two sub Seqs.
< 1321402659 730399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION head no wrap again
< 1321402684 865340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ignore that silly CakeProphet dude and tell me more :D
< 1321402785 602872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (*)(-.-.-)(*-.-.)        *-*
< 1321402785 648091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :              (|)       ->     |
< 1321402785 822690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :        (.-*-)(.)(-.-)(*)    *-+-*
< 1321402798 184064 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ o /
< 1321402804 75819 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that bot work?
< 1321402809 551521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shows precisely what part of the original is included in each char
< 1321402814 261138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the right
< 1321402816 1575 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate
< 1321402816 221148 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/  \m/ \m/  |o/ \o/ \o|  \m/ \m/  \o| |o| |o/
< 1321402816 386121 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   |
< 1321402816 431480 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  >\  |\ /<      |     /<  /´\  >\     |      >\ /<  /|
< 1321402816 536615 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :             (_|¯`\                   /´\
< 1321402816 581863 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  |_)               (_| |_)
< 1321402820 177898 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like that.
< 1321402833 272795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also that's a human being not a bot. how rude!
< 1321402842 839667 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1321402842 933239 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |
< 1321402843 53170 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /`\
< 1321402846 354455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops
< 1321402852 749534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, typo there
< 1321402872 358082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (*)(-.-.-)(*-.-.)        *-*
< 1321402872 558532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :              (|)       ->     |
< 1321402872 603868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :      (.-*)(-)(.)(-.-)(*)    *-+-*
< 1321402881 348551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321402896 434408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is more efficient the closer each cursor is, right?
< 1321402910 373084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm how so?
< 1321402923 887969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, no
< 1321402926 67631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was misreading it :)
< 1321402940 824785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASH TABLE OF CURSORS MUTABILITY YEAAAAH
< 1321402943 944972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of the Seq's and collapsed subtrees is to make the parts between cursors O(1) to move in
< 1321402965 684343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a certain value of "1"
< 1321402970 65718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1321403020 804199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a O(1) hash function that sleeps for 3 years before returning 1.
< 1321403053 678419 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S PRACTICALLY INSTANT.
< 1321403094 605627 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(noes)
< 1321403103 714825 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...As they say on the Internet.
< 1321403124 543243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you should ignore constant factors when your constant factor is 5 trillion.
< 1321403127 961652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly Big O notation.
< 1321403135 772370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote O\(slow\)
< 1321403137 599212 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :276) [on egojoust]  The fact is that EgoBot's % handling is O(slow) and O(big), and mine isn't.
< 1321403153 345953 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321403157 911560 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote themselves
< 1321403160 142175 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321403165 842621 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote norway
< 1321403167 879126 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321403173 788736 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote lunch
< 1321403175 826470 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321403179 174441 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless bot.
< 1321403186 374559 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fuck
< 1321403188 312204 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :225)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi \ 275)   oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think   oerjan: What - the - fuck \ 297)  okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly
< 1321403196 281594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403198 307116 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718)  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403203 656395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote themselves
< 1321403204 921899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote norway
< 1321403205 686564 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718)  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403206 67377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote lunch
< 1321403207 875959 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718)  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403208 551082 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718)  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403218 363221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful bot
< 1321403221 859838 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`removequote  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403223 525426 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: removequote: not found
< 1321403230 94490 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote  `quote themselves   No output.   `quote norway   No output.   `quote lunch   No output.   Useless bot.
< 1321403231 676477 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321403233 130475 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1321403235 86930 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runperl \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ units \ url \ wl \ word \ wtf
< 1321403239 619049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please kick elliott for spam
< 1321403243 554070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also shachaf
< 1321403248 839665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also CakeProphet.
< 1321403249 910730 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<  <-- grumpy old man
< 1321403250 211309 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote CakeProphet
< 1321403252 317181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :141)  how does a "DNA computer" work.  von neumann machines?  CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA.  It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 142)  CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand he held a long worm can be greased. twice i got it nearly there, and the protector of cattle. mars is
< 1321403271 575626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the idea is basically to turn a tree with a bunch of cursors into a tree of /just/ the cursors, retaining their sort of "relative positions", right?
< 1321403283 598081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those cursors contain the bits of the tree they're focusing on, sort of
< 1321403311 772296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321403321 913122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (*)(-.-)(*)(-.-.-.)        *-*
< 1321403322 52980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :              (|)       ->     |
< 1321403322 98278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :      (.-*)(-)(.)(-.-)(*)    *-+-*
< 1321403345 613201 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let |x| = abs x; o = -5 in |o|
< 1321403345 658521 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                             |
< 1321403345 703860 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            /<
< 1321403347 847965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is a Seq zipper, right?
< 1321403352 149670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the previous should become if we move the upper right * cursor one step left
< 1321403391 100066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one day Haskell will DWIM.
< 1321403392 854609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the middle | Seq line contains -.-.-.
< 1321403394 477955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (i forgot which structure you were zippering :P)
< 1321403416 738892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                |
< 1321403422 992066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1321403438 401501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*                                   |
< 1321403445 387079 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: One day it will DWIM; I dearly hope that the day will never come when it DWYM, though.
< 1321403452 954782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zippered finger trees.
< 1321403456 627358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick shachaf for interrupting your diagram
< 1321403467 23276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Seq /is/ a finger tree
< 1321403469 275207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's an actual tree in one of the Seq elements on the way
< 1321403474 796687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /really/?
< 1321403476 459678 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps.
< 1321403554 429764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, hash tables are arrays.
< 1321403583 737527 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Table#
< 1321403595 589541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm zippering a plain unrooted tree, essentially
< 1321403602 491296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321403621 553820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding labels and typesafeness left as an exercise for the reader >:P
< 1321403631 606898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when do you get to defining adts >:)
< 1321403651 602627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEFT AS AN EXERCISE FOR THE READER, I SAID
< 1321403675 254794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :'(
< 1321403681 169207 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why aren't you in #haskell these days?
< 1321403698 65251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, oerjan has roped me into listening to one of his long monologues and getting /nothing/ useful out of it :P
< 1321403699 258188 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks #haskell.  you mean line this....once oi am on unix command line to do this .....ghci -package gtk ?
< 1321403702 116857 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1321403707 791346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1321403736 570628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im going to cry at you now instead of replying to anything you say.
< 1321403737 281500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cry
< 1321403763 487049 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds to me, oerjan, like elliott mad
< 1321403779 585108 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds to me, elliott, like u mad
< 1321403786 166189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's a sort of dynamicity at the point of mapping back from the collapsed tree to the original which i'm not quite sure how to handle
< 1321403813 885398 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ><{{{}::LLKLMH@A;'`hi`1 s
< 1321403826 339899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, to get full typesafeness we'd need some kind of parametric Seq
< 1321403859 909371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with things in a map it might involve actual Dynamic
< 1321403894 145741 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerce
< 1321403903 205463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm do you need an indexed map
< 1321403933 30299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it might be necessary to invent id's for the cursors
< 1321403934 805440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i.e. lookup :: k a -> Map k a -> Maybe a
< 1321403937 777840 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you see ddarius's puzzle about IORef in #haskell recently?
< 1321403938 399902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar
< 1321403941 203314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No.
< 1321404001 730169 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { r <- newIORef (return ()); writeIORef r (join (putChar '*' >> readIORef r)); join (readIORef r) }
< 1321404020 188609 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The puzzle went "where does the recursion come from?".
< 1321404027 196431 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something along those lines.
< 1321404099 326461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I...
< 1321404119 865704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It comes from executing the result of reading r depending on the value inside r.
< 1321404124 713839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it executes.
< 1321404128 484079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on.
< 1321404133 718595 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but there's no recursive definition there.
< 1321404145 522487 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet it's non-terminating.
< 1321404148 399556 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that happen?
< 1321404151 555616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There sort of is; it's using the IORef as a definition.
< 1321404152 150648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a cyclic structure created by mutation
< 1321404160 921119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1321404173 486053 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but why are you allowed to create a cyclic structure?
< 1321404189 326811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because IO etc
< 1321404197 443809 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it works with ST too.
< 1321404198 155115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: As opposed to...?
< 1321404202 549990 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you model this with State, for instance?
< 1321404204 175312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's easy with IORef?
< 1321404222 870003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do a mono-typed STRef with State, so yes.
< 1321404223 124192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321404230 864124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since only one relevant reference type is used here.
< 1321404240 871282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x = &x    //weeeeeeeee
< 1321404244 11851 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, can you do it with State, then, without using any recursion?
< 1321404293 396300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: main = runStateT (do { put $ join (liftIO (putChar '*') >> get); join get) (return ())
< 1321404294 380806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321404306 757345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: main = runStateT (do { put $ join (liftIO (putChar '*') >> get); join get }) (return ())
< 1321404322 849066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
< 1321404322 894326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      m1 = StateT (m1 ()) m0
< 1321404322 894474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321404349 331390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321404353 90061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You just need a newtype wrapper.
< 1321404361 115435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Foo = Foo (StateT Foo IO)
< 1321404363 349027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runRWS (do put (join (tell "*" >> get)); join get) undefined undefined
< 1321404364 963192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
< 1321404365 108574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   m
< 1321404365 153911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   =
< 1321404365 154090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Control.Mona...
< 1321404373 50324 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you get the IO out of this, please?
< 1321404375 442424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runRWS
< 1321404376 499792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r w s a. RWS r w s a -> r -> s -> (a, s, w)
< 1321404379 85289 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should never have brought up IO.
< 1321404387 690233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What kind of effect do you want, then? Just plain _|_?
< 1321404391 270240 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1321404403 615091 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ without recursion is accomplishment enough. :-)
< 1321404416 30306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined
< 1321404417 343732 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: Prelude.undefined
< 1321404422 262615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels accomplished
< 1321404426 272585 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap CakeProphet
< 1321404426 663053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION karate-chops CakeProphet into two equally sized halves
< 1321404432 866411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Lesse...
< 1321404460 193946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sse/ssee/
< 1321404467 440892 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, that was recursive. :-)
< 1321404479 208540 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81edb5.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321404482 439941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think the only reason my RWS version doesn't work is that the state is contained in the monad type, unlike for IO, so it needs a newtype wrapper
< 1321404510 600677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i think it is in spirit the same as the IO one
< 1321404526 4207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Done.
< 1321404532 359127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewtype Foo a = Foo { unFoo :: State (Foo ()) a }
< 1321404532 404415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = Foo $ do
< 1321404532 404566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  put $ Foo (get >>= unFoo)
< 1321404532 404665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  get >>= unFoo
< 1321404535 473852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> evalState (unFoo test) undefined
< 1321404535 519123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package transformers-0.2.2.0 ... linking ... done.
< 1321404538 480772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ewtype/newtype/
< 1321404545 948313 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're using a recursive newtype.
< 1321404561 139388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So is IO.
< 1321404566 586431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IORefs are just magical.
< 1321404589 864112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure exactly what you're getting at here.
< 1321404622 266884 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's recursive about STRef?
< 1321404642 433074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ST has a store of STRefs which you instantiate polymorphically to make them include an ST.
< 1321404658 714754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the problem is that only IO and ST allows you to make state that doesn't show up in the type of the monad
< 1321404658 760075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fine, I'll whip up a version without that.
< 1321404681 879806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why they don't need a newtype
< 1321404687 481347 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right.
< 1321404697 112202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I can't, I'd need unsafeCoerce I think.
< 1321404704 439793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, hmm...
< 1321404710 445975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But yeah, what is the point actually meant to be?
< 1321404747 414008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe Dynamic is sufficient?
< 1321404768 850291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm, right
< 1321404771 833642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests
< 1321404853 876194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    No instance for (Typeable1
< 1321404853 921830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                       (StateT Dynamic Data.Functor.Identity.Identity))
< 1321404854 630498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph.
< 1321404857 344025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION newtype
< 1321404939 117408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Can't make a derived instance of `Typeable1 (StateT a m)':
< 1321404939 201609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      `StateT' has arguments of kind other than `*'
< 1321404939 297792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the stand-alone deriving instance for `Typeable1 (StateT a m)'
< 1321404963 291938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes own monad
< 1321405153 379592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Done.
< 1321405199 675992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://hpaste.org/54087
< 1321405304 917398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: HAPPY NOW?
< 1321405327 855817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (I note that you can implement Y without explicit value or type recursion using Dynamic too.)
< 1321405377 99256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: SO N-CURSOR ZIPPERS
< 1321405450 883599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I will substitute for oerjan
< 1321405453 543702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also, I believe this means you can do recursion with "just" the FFI, and with "just" Chans and forkIO.
< 1321405454 346722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically like
< 1321405457 143084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :n-cursor zippers
< 1321405459 201805 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are like zippers
< 1321405462 145662 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with n cursors.
< 1321405511 465888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even do recursion with "just" recursion.
< 1321405526 470506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed!
< 1321405530 739496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oerjan, n-cursor zippers
< 1321405554 559621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense some recursoring
< 1321405623 240507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny. HELP ME OUT, I AM AT WAR WITH FINNS.
< 1321405677 206533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could do a zipper of the collapsed tree to easily move to the cursor we want to concentrate on >:)
< 1321405713 558955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1321405746 861621 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1321405821 531035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we wouldn't need a dictionary to get back to the original tree.  although we still need some map to tell the path to each cursor.  ouch.
< 1321405877 829894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that map would change as cursors move
< 1321405919 236355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since the shape of the collapsed tree also can change
< 1321405922 712641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what, exactly, kind of dictionary do you need?
< 1321406057 886202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm.  maybe we could put signposts in the virtual cursor data to tell how to move to another cursor - only the next step, so changes are still local
< 1321406077 990347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zipper of the zipper starts looking sane...
< 1321406106 744435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coooool
< 1321406191 772950 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/lolncursor.png
< 1321406192 622831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this would get O(n) in the number of cursors if they're laid out on a line
< 1321406195 656809 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobel Prize plz
< 1321406206 640739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O(n) to do /what/?
< 1321406220 507857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: now tell me how to reposition cursor 3 before cursor 2
< 1321406243 415469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do lots of swappy things.
< 1321406272 735164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the cursors are not necessarily ordered in that way.
< 1321406286 214064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole point of this collapsed tree thing
< 1321406299 869092 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C71F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321406303 822695 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmm
< 1321406306 158153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1321406339 734745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to move from one cursor to another if you have to pass all the others, if they're extremes on a line
< 1321406356 289658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the zipper of zipper idea
< 1321406375 972284 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you intend to access the cursors?
< 1321406377 520359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah. that's probably not hugely problematic, i think the most number of IPs any funge program has is like 60,000, and that's pathological
< 1321406382 356926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :random access, sequentially, ????
< 1321406387 900982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few hundred at most is all i care to optimise for
< 1321406398 165367 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by an identifier, by an index?
< 1321406461 540331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: round-robin, for my usecase
< 1321406466 914324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321406488 190035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could just decouple the subsequences...
< 1321406492 260762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a Seq of zippers.
< 1321406497 44377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the same list.
< 1321406511 61561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll let oerjan respond to you >:)
< 1321406517 127945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but anyway, what kind of dictionary /did/ you need?
< 1321406557 486822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at this point, i think you only need dictionaries or something for the signposts
< 1321406571 599142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I meant to avoid the zipper-zipper inefficiency, but ok
< 1321406578 124373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a signpost would tell for each real cursor what direction to go in
< 1321406579 599787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1321406587 792505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh Seq of zippers is mad efficient.
< 1321406692 109325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a virtual cursor node would need to contain some data: a list of adjoining trees without cursors in them, a list of adjoining Seq's to other cursors, and some tag to tell which nearest neighbors are in which relation to each other in the original QuadTree.  and possibly the signpost map.
< 1321406736 252029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the adjoining Seq's would of course "end" in cursor-cursors with the zipper zipper idea
< 1321406740 784347 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321406751 977702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321406777 255165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a ref to the mutable 2D array that it can use to mutate the fungespace and move IPs in constant time.
< 1321406807 370586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:>
< 1321406808 915777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't do the zipper of zipper idea, you need to handle the collapsed tree in some other way, perhaps using some graph library.
< 1321406830 208576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, stick with zipper of zipper i guess :P
< 1321406834 989075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds easier
< 1321406839 107413 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/zipper/Seq/
< 1321406852 410646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats CakeProphet -----###
< 1321406922 684623 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WLIIA REPORT AS OF 1x15: Absolute winner is still Wayne Brady with an incredible 3,003,530.5 points. Absolute average episode winner is also Wayne with 250,294.2 points. Logarithmic winner is Ryan Stiles in a come-from behind victory with 82, barely beating out Colin's 80.6. Logarithmic average episode winner for performers appearing in >1 episode is Wayne with 6 log-points per episode.
< 1321406945 774253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321406956 721196 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm watching all of Whose Line is it Anyway and tallying the points.
< 1321406968 354916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly Wayne Brady is the best choice for implementation of n-cursor zippers.
< 1321406975 449596 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: white people love Wayne Brady.
< 1321406989 878180 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION return
< 1321407023 350372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION CakeProphet >>= eat soup
< 1321407026 957646 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321407030 561568 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION >>= eat soup
< 1321407074 668871 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shachaf shachaf *
< 1321407082 883882 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: First, why the heck are you doing that?
< 1321407106 973514 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, :)
< 1321407179 93017 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: As an excuse to watch WLIIA :P
< 1321407188 820061 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good reason.
< 1321407257 376580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go on :
< 1321407257 889590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321407291 544671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the handsome black man is the best to watch.
< 1321407300 915219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Drew Carrey may have a mancrush on him
< 1321407423 809123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y :: (Typeable c, Typeable b) => (b -> c) -> c
< 1321407427 947790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My fixed-point combinator is swell.
< 1321407471 354677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :swellest
< 1321407481 628231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic NW, NE, SW, SE, FromNW, FromNE, FromSW, FromSE directions from QuadTrees still apply to all of this, i think.
< 1321407492 65371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION >>= eat soup >>= feelMMM
< 1321407495 850732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1321407498 562252 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1321407500 626009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321407565 695096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cursor cursor would go in one of those.  if one of the four first, it would be sort of like a QuadTree, if one of the four latter, like a Cursor in our previous discussions
< 1321407590 168063 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321407679 332572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be two types of such, those with a (virtual) cursor at the other end, and those without.  the latter would actually _be_ QuadTrees and Cursors of our previous talks.
< 1321407686 362539 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you guys are overcomplicated this..
< 1321407710 945538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: present your solution or shut up and stop butting in :P
< 1321407715 564027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former would contain a Seq, a new direction, and a virtual cursor node.
< 1321407736 200616 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, owcc is SO FRIGGIN' SLOW
< 1321407752 885037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terminology of this is definitely going to hell.
< 1321407755 37816 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Lest you're not up to date: x86[_64], SPARC, MIPS[el]
< 1321407762 546804 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as big a list as I'd like :(
< 1321407775 36389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was up to date. Make it work on ARM and PPC. :p
< 1321407775 121874 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, tcc seems to exclusively generate retarded function prologues.
< 1321407777 531368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, quite
< 1321407784 380218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe some ADT definitions would help >:)
< 1321407793 450014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in principle we would want type parametrized Seq's so we could actually keep things typesafe
< 1321407815 416211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With -O2: 7b:       81 ec 00 00 00 00       sub    $0x0,%esp
< 1321407842 549386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what I had in my diagram. just do swappy stuff when you need to rearrange cursors.
< 1321407851 572977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What the fuck is "swappy stuff"?
< 1321407873 741203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's too inefficient, just do a Seq/container-of-preference of zippers because.
< 1321407881 864302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of PSeq f a b which is a chain of f a c1, f c1 c2, ..., f cn b
< 1321407895 291761 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Swell as in unsafeCoerce?
< 1321407904 151288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Nah, the next best thing.
< 1321407905 402394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :f would be a gadt, i think
< 1321407967 326308 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dynamic = unsafeCoerce.
< 1321407997 127524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is worried that part needs ContextKinds
< 1321408004 781562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321408010 750769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ConstraintKinds
< 1321408047 151907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rearrange the cursors so they're in order, concat and move stuff around. profit.
< 1321408088 712526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if what's between two cursors isn't relevant, just do the Seq of zippers. that's more efficient.
< 1321408156 815689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y :: forall a. (Typeable a) => (a -> a) -> a
< 1321408156 861061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y f = fromDyn' (magic (toDyn magic))
< 1321408156 861224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where magic :: Dynamic -> Dynamic
< 1321408156 861325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        magic x = toDyn (f (fromDyn' (dynApp x (toDyn x))))
< 1321408159 293271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It doesn't work :-(
< 1321408184 145611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A Seq of zippers doesn't let you mutate, which is the whole bloody point.
< 1321408198 53868 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why are you using Dyn instead of just recursive types?
< 1321408201 782925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but assuming the cursors are IPs then I'm guessing they only move around in increments of 1?
< 1321408213 317112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: To prove you can do fix without type or value-level recursion.
< 1321408221 342116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I really can't be bothered explaining this to you?
< 1321408221 508162 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By using unsafeCoerce.
< 1321408231 334812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, except it's safeCoerce.
< 1321408274 953669 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let safeCoerce :: a -> a; safeCoerce x = unsafeCoerce x
< 1321408276 47555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1321408308 505288 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> safeCoerce 5
< 1321408314 27764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval: ExitFailure 1
< 1321408314 265986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1321408316 2941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot.....
< 1321408335 827868 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> safeCoerce 5
< 1321408335 999191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t safeCoerce
< 1321408337 92181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> a
< 1321408337 581221 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  5
< 1321408345 670886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src safeCoerce
< 1321408348 793559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Are you on drugs?
< 1321408355 405692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm
< 1321408360 317398 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake "whats paying attention" prophet
< 1321408384 325973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats paying attention?
< 1321408396 985896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no......
< 1321408440 180239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often make fools of yourself.
< 1321408454 659756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321408488 553473 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy avoids making fools of yourself by only talking when he is not a fool.
< 1321408493 344086 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good strategy.
< 1321408557 918591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is never fool
< 1321408749 20231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore monqy only talks.
< 1321408898 231295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor "unrelated" Richards
< 1321409033 700294 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEYO
< 1321409045 372889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :O YEH
< 1321409050 288222 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The very first instance of Scenes from a Hat (in spite of it being a staple of the show) is in the 16th episode.
< 1321409118 722612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :RogerG\unhere
< 1321409139 797047 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye roger g
< 1321409192 96409 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, how do I stop making owcc do semi-clever inter-procedural optimization >_>
< 1321409254 238718 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does owcc have -O0
< 1321409264 89336 :RogerG\unhere!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: write inefficient code.
< 1321409270 959446 :RogerG\unhere!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will negate the effect.
< 1321409282 861521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have procedures
< 1321409309 306101 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have enough procedures that owcc overflows something.
< 1321409341 964262 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-176-36.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321409440 781735 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-147-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1321409451 834410 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Doesn't work with -O0 because it generates subl $0, %esp
< 1321409495 616688 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...
< 1321409506 283846 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yup.
< 1321409524 491246 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :owcc...
< 1321409544 241553 :RogerG\unhere!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321409556 375140 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye roger g
< 1321409597 275363 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: OpenWatcom.
< 1321409622 213527 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklahoma Workers' Comensation Court
< 1321409644 719315 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old Whitgiftians Cricket Club          good
< 1321409708 27051 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code it produces for MS-DOS executes very fast[citation needed]. It was one of the first compilers to support the Intel 80386 "protected mode"[citation needed].
< 1321409711 51037 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks wikipedia
< 1321409759 936174 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ye old Watcom compiler, GPL'd.
< 1321410097 444292 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so far nothing but gcc can make my JIT work X-P
< 1321410101 907877 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is SO CLOSE and yet so far.
< 1321410107 611618 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler suggestions?
< 1321410139 498589 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc?
< 1321410152 802711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can compile it with otcc even better.
< 1321410169 595961 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc always generates subl $0, %esp
< 1321410177 299318 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otcc likewise? :(
< 1321410183 861153 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried it.
< 1321410192 100152 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably does.
< 1321410201 188401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as it's what tcc came from.
< 1321410222 859935 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it'd be pretty spiffy to compile with a previous entry to IOCCC.
< 1321410299 612962 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True ...
< 1321410317 814457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if with sufficient cleverness I could do epilogue detection only and leave in the prologues and partial epilogues for everything ...
< 1321410353 143882 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR I could be REALLY stupid and just assume that your epilogue is either one or four bytes and no other size :P
< 1321410500 766818 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, wouldn't work on SPARC :P
< 1321410572 789957 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or anything else with delay branches ... )
< 1321410804 495743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT, if I assume that on all CISC platforms (all one of them), I may be in luck.
< 1321411279 689325 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEYOOOOO
< 1321411394 676909 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom :)
< 1321411409 137348 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably TCC
< 1321411629 655676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: By doing what
< 1321411948 258068 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, works on TCC too :)
< 1321411953 329702 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Making my heuristics much more stupid.
< 1321411960 29254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321411970 655639 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On platforms I determine to be CISC, I blindly assume the epilogue is always one byte and the prologue is zero.
< 1321412116 92662 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321412227 375329 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321412243 479920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How do you determine ciscness?
< 1321412254 186971 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Odd-sized functions.
< 1321412265 3811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it?
< 1321412266 972472 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1321412292 247805 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exactly aiming for coding perfection here :P
< 1321412293 582268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an odd heuristic
< 1321412306 856803 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AND YET: It works :)
< 1321412361 91338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ADTS PLZ
< 1321412377 250978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew i'd regret that pun
< 1321412570 847503 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now to lament the lack of -mbuild-constants for ARM :(
< 1321413273 331536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :|
< 1321413282 928669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tricky
< 1321413293 487974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah :P
< 1321413329 239092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw the space is actually finite
< 1321413339 90205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Int32,Int32)-indexed
< 1321413363 883120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321413369 74719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic, well that's just having some top node
< 1321413372 456735 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-117.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321413426 899940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321413440 429430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like you can allocate that much anyway
< 1321413453 301266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so might as well just leave it out
< 1321413510 869367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data MetaCursor srcdir = MCPlain (PlainCursor srcdir) | forall dest. MCPath (MetaPath src dest) MetaNode dest
< 1321413528 714644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that looks cool
< 1321413593 732568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: s/srcdir/src/g right?
< 1321413600 420865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321413611 895221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the reversze
< 1321413614 554112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-z
< 1321413629 564989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you vneed to rename dest >:)
< 1321413633 430272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321413634 269924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :src is nicer anyway
< 1321413694 565723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data FromNW; data FromNE; data FromSW; data FromSE; data NW; data NE; data SW; data SE -- src and dest should be one of these
< 1321413728 961775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321413935 491680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlainCursor From{NW,NE,SW,SE} is basically our old Cursor and PlainCursor {NW,NE,SW,SE} is a QuadTree, i think
< 1321413957 596749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gadts then :P
< 1321413960 202475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321413976 507452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget our old cursor but i'll look it up when i need it
< 1321413992 469150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(MetaNode dest)  -- forgot parens above
< 1321413997 315432 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, earl grey.
< 1321414076 661299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw just out of curiosity, does it help optimise the metazipper thing if you know i always access cursors in round-robin
< 1321414097 558667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not round-robin in order of space; in order of creation
< 1321414104 618033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1321414127 242801 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I may have this working on ARM, and only 85% incurably stupid.
< 1321414155 731715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll shut up :)
< 1321414196 687741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you basically wants CakeProphet's Seq of zippers in ther somehow ;P
< 1321414205 51356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+e
< 1321414287 201647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well just continue as-is :P
< 1321414331 130753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaNode dest  represents a node containing a virtual cursor, with incoming edge as dest
< 1321414340 165262 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, now how did this break on MIPS >_>
< 1321414404 170534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321414458 537286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321414461 198573 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321414511 728317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNFromNW :: { neNeighbor :: MetaCursor NE, ... but what should be the _up_ cursor...
< 1321414553 824912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it needs to be split. ah!
< 1321414572 122131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data From; data To; data NW; ...
< 1321414594 895655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321414608 155679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: From dir
< 1321414613 130746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and To dir
< 1321414616 690999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321414620 5777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321414627 100377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well maybe
< 1321414637 749243 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321414653 28491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of them as separate arguments, but i guess that works too
< 1321414689 216366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321414773 915949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNFromNW :: { neNeighbor :: MetaCursor (To NE), swNeighbor :: MetaCursor (To SW), seNeighbor :: MetaCursor (To SE), up :: MetaCursor (From dir), signPost :: SignPost } -> MetaNode (From NW)
< 1321414797 545211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that's the right syntax
< 1321414819 819275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its {a::b} -> {c::d} -> ...
< 1321414825 282480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i prefer yours :)
< 1321414828 212575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321414970 962541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNToNW :: { ... like above but with all five neighbors and no up }
< 1321414977 941731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321414982 222586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously then
< 1321415000 984152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is dir in MNFromNW
< 1321415001 938197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNTo :: { ... } -> MetaNode (To dir)
< 1321415008 150370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321415030 539846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NW then
< 1321415036 220901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need a different constructor for different ones on the To
< 1321415043 432204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MNTo
< 1321415111 910766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dir in the up field of MNFromNW is arbitrary, since we don't know which direction this node is from the up node
< 1321415122 952308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean all 4 neighbours right?
< 1321415125 456376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ah
< 1321415128 887915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :P
< 1321415267 60507 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So yeah, +ARM anyway :P
< 1321415290 605149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: +ARM-MIPS
< 1321415303 385340 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm fixin' MIPS :P
< 1321415358 537560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaPath src dir is tricky.  it should be a chain of, hm, PathNode s d, using some kind of Seq which _ideally_ would be parametrized such that only consecutive PathNodes need to match in types
< 1321415443 571070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that really matter for internals? :
< 1321415445 487371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321415446 906347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it should probably have a tag so you could consider one as "reversed", for when you "metazip" around it
< 1321415464 491193 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321415502 443918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :without needed to _actually_ traverse and reverse the pathnodes
< 1321415505 700790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*needing
< 1321415510 126001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321415544 681640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you don't do that then of course the typesafe directions break down inside these paths.
< 1321415553 381052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right
< 1321415559 288030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead, then :P
< 1321415575 272890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i am simply assuming the existence of such a Seq)
< 1321415600 142801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think i called PSeq above
< 1321415666 395429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data MetaPath src dir = MP (PSeq PathNode src dir) | MPReversed (PSeq PathNode dir seq)
< 1321415675 35736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321415708 968346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reversing thing might be better to put into pseq itself but never mind that for now...
< 1321415758 116964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was just assuming a PSeq which did the minimal change to Seq to make it parametric
< 1321415775 81134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321415790 900582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321415806 503925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/seq/src/ :p
< 1321415826 640541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321415942 900195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PN_ToNW_ToNW :: { neNeighbor :: PlainCursor (To NE) } -> { swNeighbor :: ... } -> { seNeighbor :: ... } -> PlainNode (To NW) (To NW)
< 1321415984 655312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly for PN_To**_To**
< 1321415995 453446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. (i preferred the previous syntax :P)
< 1321416031 126690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PN_To**_From** is illegal
< 1321416062 793789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I officially have no clue why MIPS is broken :P
< 1321416099 613248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PN_FromNW_FromNW :: { neNeighbor :: ..., swNeighbor :: ..., seNeighbor :: ... } -> PlainNode (From NW) (From NW)
< 1321416121 405347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :same arguments, actually, it's conceptually the reversed version of the first one
< 1321416150 35295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so PN_From**_From** in general
< 1321416219 77653 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321416227 818325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PN_FromNW_ToNE :: { swNeighbor :: PlainCursor (To SW), seNeighbor :: PlainCursor (To SE), up :: PlainCursor (From dir) } -> PlainNode (From NW) (To NE)
< 1321416247 958558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and PN_From**_To** in general, except not with the two directions equal
< 1321416262 82076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's all for PlainNode
< 1321416390 331290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back, sorry
< 1321416402 374470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SignPost would be a map whose keys are real cursors and whose values are Maybe Direction
< 1321416416 860362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: re: to/from, couldn't you have ... -> PlainNode (tofrom NW) (tofrom NW) >:)
< 1321416421 690358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding >_>
< 1321416438 592655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1321416457 770959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direction would be a value form of the To dir, From dir things.
< 1321416464 92581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321416485 389079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (more seriously, it seems to me like a type AllDirectionsBut wrapper dir would cut down on lots of duplication)
< 1321416512 325116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe.  note that the PN_From**_To** miss _two_ directions.
< 1321416517 945246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321416525 486463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a real cursor? the previous Cursor? PlainCursor?
< 1321416572 486595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your ip id, i think
< 1321416583 352723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, so just an identifier? ok
< 1321416601 49155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a value of Nothing indicates that it's at _this_ node
< 1321416614 196022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (i am half-considering putting the rest of the IP data into this structure, since it's basically tracking my IPs anyway...)
< 1321416616 183127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while Just dir indicates where to start going to find it
< 1321416651 467775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah in that case you could use Either IpData Direction for the values, i guess
< 1321416657 454106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321416671 711557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am shocked to find myself actually understanding all this.
< 1321416681 449476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321416708 224957 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's some weird interaction between unconditional jumps and conditional jumps >_O
< 1321416797 993785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i thought i had lost all hope of understanding after last time's 15 constructors :D
< 1321416806 113452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321416864 627689 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AHAAAAAAAAAAAAA scratch registers boo.
< 1321416875 579797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, s/PlainNode/PathNode/g in some of the above
< 1321416886 58186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh. now it makes even more sense!
< 1321416915 643149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321416926 800571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er, that's not it, right?
< 1321416964 167912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think PathNode has 44 constructors.
< 1321416971 514009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321416988 286687 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/scratch/argument/ in fact :P
< 1321416996 299686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: heh
< 1321417012 138248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i will probably try and abstract that out so it only needs one constructor per valid to/from pai :P
< 1321417012 491162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r
< 1321417014 860967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose your AllDirectionsBut is a must
< 1321417017 340625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, go on
< 1321417037 481938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think that's most of it?
< 1321417075 54757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321417094 569056 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fixt.
< 1321417100 635591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if I asked you how to implement "go west in currently-focused cursor" would you disown me?
< 1321417128 531773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you insisted on all the details
< 1321417165 584571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321417171 742062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you navigate between cursors /spatially/ in this, right?
< 1321417177 79540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to make navigating in some other order a pain
< 1321417194 515036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah?
< 1321417226 719147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well like i said, my IPs are used round-robinly :P
< 1321417261 935347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i didn't do any attempt to optimize that order
< 1321417279 898990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any order, really
< 1321417287 751675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1321417294 708675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but i'm not sure how you do it at /all/
< 1321417302 761764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like you'd have to try every cursor until you found the one you care about
< 1321417505 72979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data MetaContext = MetaContext { nwNeighbor :: MetaCursor (To NW), ..., up :: MetaCursor dir, signPost :: SignPost } -- it occurs to me that some field name disambiguation will be needed
< 1321417520 897869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, say that's the current focused context
< 1321417546 877532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, look in the signPost to find out where the ip you want to be at is
< 1321417577 879612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's here, you're set...
< 1321417584 320231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! right
< 1321417590 335891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that makes sense now
< 1321417597 360578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you go east >:)
< 1321417654 903767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm assuming you're focused at the ip...
< 1321417661 118197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the up
< 1321417690 593958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw i am not looking forward to figuring out how to mutate within the 128x128 area :P
< 1321417700 142642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll have to just check every other IP
< 1321417711 231930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really want to add caches to a structure this complex
< 1321417715 671541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, as in
< 1321417718 620010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because other IPs could be there too
< 1321417730 593713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that's actually possible with yours...
< 1321417754 460943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321417845 204215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321417872 32850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not properly considered the actual _leaf_ nodes, where the 128x128 data would reside
< 1321417894 514516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except for the PlainCursor ones, but they don't contain real cursors
< 1321417906 946802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have a zipper for trees with no top or bottom? :P
< 1321418159 930267 :madbr!boulam@modemcable221.74-200-24.mc.videotron.ca PART :#esoteric
< 1321418170 197008 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ARM goes all the way up to -O3 (with -fno-toplevel-reorder)
< 1321418179 990398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321418222 910063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNLeaf :: { area :: Array "whatever", signPost :: SignPost } -> MetaNode (To dir)
< 1321418234 778805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be what is needed
< 1321418243 462532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Array "whatever"
< 1321418245 737416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good array
< 1321418253 326878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :best array
< 1321418266 744439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so what if i actually put this into a file and tried to make it all typecheck :P
< 1321418294 728373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as i said i have not kept all field names distinct between data types, so fix that :P
< 1321418380 380838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok [CRACKS KNUCKLES, PUTS BASEBALL CAP ON BACKWARDS, STARTS UP EMACS, CHEWS ON GUM, DISOWNS AUTHORITY + PARENTS] time to ROCK!!!!!!
< 1321418383 361545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am such a serious person
< 1321418394 516562 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thc.org/root/phun/unmaintain.html
< 1321418396 757829 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that
< 1321418402 432110 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :or write all your code in INTERCAL
< 1321418447 930514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so wait, are plain [NW][SE] ever used, or is it always within either From or To now?
< 1321418501 474884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321418504 317470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[NS][EW]
< 1321418508 105566 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't get IOCCC 2001 bellard to run :(
< 1321418519 792306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Surprising :P
< 1321418531 95378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall
< 1321418551 308415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh you actually got the gadt record syntax almost right
< 1321418553 854570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Foo { ... } :: A
< 1321418570 445765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321418571 358593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : PlainCursor From{NW,NE,SW,SE} is basically our old Cursor and PlainCursor {NW,NE,SW,SE} is a QuadTree, i think
< 1321418582 564138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does that still use plain directions or is the QuadTree case in a To?
< 1321418591 82788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a To
< 1321418620 567318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok. now to find your old Cursor :P
< 1321418620 709573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't need to list all
< 1321418627 447171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you recall it :P
< 1321418675 654993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it should be very similar to MetaNode
< 1321418690 125723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaNode (From ...)
< 1321418690 921220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov 14 03:03:10 	data QuadCursor t = FromNorth { southChild :: t, eastChild :: t, westChild :: t, up :: QuadCursor (QuadBranch t) } | FromSouth ...
< 1321418698 971040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is it just that but with NW/SE etc. instead of North/South?
< 1321418727 693168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that first one was in error, i corrected it to NW/SE later
< 1321418756 174209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not _exactly_ that, it's all gadts now :P
< 1321418827 244327 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321418873 703571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCFromNW { neNeighbor :: PlainCursor (To NE), swNeighbor :: ..., seNeighbor :: ..., up :: PlainCursor (From dir) } -> PlainCursor (From NW)
< 1321418921 488827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCLeaf :: { area :: Array "whatever" } -> PlainCursor (To dir)
< 1321418926 382102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1321418930 327694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm on to PathNode, FWIW
< 1321418947 759389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321418954 449091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, what happened to the QuadTree case?
< 1321418972 686031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : PlainCursor From{NW,NE,SW,SE} is basically our old Cursor and PlainCursor {NW,NE,SW,SE} is a QuadTree, i think
< 1321418994 240278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCTo :: { neNeighbor :: ..., ... } -> PlainCursor (To dir)
< 1321419005 997423 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be that and PCLeaf
< 1321419011 605035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, for GADTs there is the following additional constraint: every constructor that has a field f must have the same result type (modulo alpha conversion)"
< 1321419016 970336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo, I need different field names for each signpost
< 1321419020 598869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, ok
< 1321419027 191820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn :(
< 1321419060 411805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds most annoying
< 1321419070 985631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is PCTo just PlainCursor (To dir) for each dir?
< 1321419091 279628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I need a name for (From dir)/(To dir), like dir is for all the directions. origin?
< 1321419091 587734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes
< 1321419116 962069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not From? ok
< 1321419147 263641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gave PCFromNW above, the rest of the Froms should be like that.
< 1321419152 372482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321419205 249616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hm. (From foo)/(To foo) are directions
< 1321419209 840424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the foos that need a name
< 1321419214 707221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...think?
< 1321419217 539159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help :
< 1321419218 333903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321419228 761575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, NW/SE/NE/SW are definitely directions, so I do need a name
< 1321419251 217669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321419313 122384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quick, name (From dir)/(To dir) :-(
< 1321419378 968370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Direction would be a value form of the To dir, From dir things.
< 1321419387 729207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaargh, you've been calling both of them directions all this time
< 1321419391 380977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan you're awful :( but uh thanks
< 1321419394 776053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much
< 1321419429 848285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: come on come on gimme a name gimme a name :(
< 1321419441 669715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit
< 1321419450 775709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321419524 783508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: woo, just PathNode to go
< 1321419570 107805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm MetaContext is new, right?
< 1321419579 702936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MNLeaf :: { area :: Array "whatever", signPost :: SignPost } -> MetaNode (To dir)
< 1321419585 805192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er is this required as well as the leaf in PlainCursor?
< 1321419681 22589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : PN_ToNW_ToNW :: { neNeighbor :: PlainCursor (To NE) } -> { swNeighbor :: ... } -> { seNeighbor :: ... } -> PlainNode (To NW) (To NW)
< 1321419681 226662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : similarly for PN_To**_To**
< 1321419685 430049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the **s here have to be equal, right?
< 1321419772 964581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh
< 1321419774 220567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : PN_FromNW_FromNW :: { neNeighbor :: ..., swNeighbor :: ..., seNeighbor :: ... } -> PlainNode (From NW) (From NW)
< 1321419782 545953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and are these PlainCursor (To ...)s or PlainCursor (From ...)s?
< 1321419784 206066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neighbours, that is
< 1321419799 347044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, MNLeaf is for a leaf that is a virtual cursor
< 1321419815 643928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which means it's a real one, if you don't have extraneous virtual ones)
< 1321419819 293031 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321419838 135848 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321419851 190938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the **s don't have to be equal
< 1321419888 578625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are PlainCursor (To ...)'s
< 1321419891 45610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data PathNode src dest where
< 1321419891 90924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PNToTo :: PlainCursorTosWithout2 a b -> PathNode (To a) (To b)
< 1321419891 136192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PNFromFrom :: PlainCursorTosWithout2 a b -> PathNode (From a) (From b)
< 1321419891 181350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PNFromTo :: PlainCursorTosWithout2 a b -> PlainCursor (From dir) -> PathNode (From a) (To b)
< 1321419892 655296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I think
< 1321419971 942133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that PNFromTo should have a /~ b
< 1321420000 280925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... you realise expressing that constraint is a pain :P
< 1321420009 793199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully possible since we only have four directions...
< 1321420021 883875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you may consider it optional
< 1321420047 378066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm would it be more convenient as a class constraint on the constructor, or as an actual type
< 1321420054 229504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the latter is a GADT
< 1321420058 156367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the obvious constructors
< 1321420072 416998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm thinking, for the operations on these)
< 1321420212 690921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh, convenient, all the "...s without dir" use (To dir) as the type argument >:)
< 1321420225 259681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...i feel really bad about wanting to exploit this, but it's sort of integral to the nature of a neighbour right?! reassure me
< 1321420544 779405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um ok i need guidance
< 1321420552 934639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would be really bad to save on constructors by having
< 1321420556 176942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1321420562 136643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo :: NeighboursWithout2 t a b -> NeighbousrWithout2 t b a
< 1321420563 255721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? :p
< 1321420569 95734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage-wise
< 1321420631 617845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right?? :'(
< 1321420641 975869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already have
< 1321420642 641387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Neighbours2Same :: Neighbours1 t dir -> Neighbours2 t dir dir
< 1321420643 586210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1321420684 662073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my brain is a bout fried for today
< 1321420801 39949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1321420813 124870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht!
< 1321420898 577774 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321421083 796905 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -c jitchards.c
< 1321421083 933120 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1984 jitchards.c
< 1321421118 537783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best filesize.
< 1321421317 903585 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: night
< 1321421990 580394 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you ever answer my question about cookies?
< 1321421998 73452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which question?
< 1321422000 126953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that lambdabot one?
< 1321422008 340260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're certainly not UK-cookies.
< 1321422026 227683 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they exist in the UK?
< 1321422073 743344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never come across one? I don't know that they don't, though.
< 1321422080 402329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fortune cookies, while largely an American item, are occasionally seen in other countries, most often at Chinese restaurants. Fortune cookies have been distributed in Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, India, Brazil, Mexico, France, The Netherlands and Germany."
< 1321422099 980914 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortune cookies are weird
< 1321422106 300891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like them
< 1321422127 342657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: theyre ghosts (boo)
< 1321422138 693789 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1321422188 712082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, if all goes horribly wrong you might get an actual UMLBox user soon.
< 1321422199 703836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've suggested it to the tup developer to solve a certain problem and he thinks it looks promising :P
< 1321422718 106507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey shachaf! I'm going to make you look in the other direction again.
< 1321422719 907105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PSeq> :t pfoldr
< 1321422720 106521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfoldr
< 1321422720 151813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b c -> result a c)
< 1321422720 151979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     -> (forall a. result a a)
< 1321422720 152112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     -> PSeq path src dest
< 1321422720 967557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :     -> result src dest
< 1321422725 680814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brought to you by the Power of unsafeCoerce(tm).
< 1321422750 704478 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Beeping me in IRC has approximately the opposite effect, as you are well aware.
< 1321422766 690546 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now blind.
< 1321422767 294526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it lets you know so that you can look away more /intentionally/.
< 1321422788 601640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PSeq> :t pfoldr (<|) empty
< 1321422788 657218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfoldr (<|) empty :: PSeq path src dest -> PSeq path src dest
< 1321422788 702462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it actually works.
< 1321422789 65635 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know the context of elliott's type.
< 1321422810 671871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why don't Seqs have pfoldfromtheend?
< 1321422815 589068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, without the p.
< 1321422825 612477 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: However, using type variable names longer than a single character is very unHaskelly of you.
< 1321422875 669722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah, I got tired of it being unreadable. :-(
< 1321422891 385580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data PViewL path src dest where
< 1321422891 653155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PEmptyL :: PViewL path a a
< 1321422891 698419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (:<) :: path src mid -> PSeq path mid dest -> PViewL path src dest
< 1321422891 698573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much sacrilege.
< 1321422911 470408 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what elliott is doing but doesn't want to read backlog.
< 1321422923 334266 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskellworldproblems, eh?
< 1321422943 629060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (PSeq path src dest) is basically (path src a, path a b, path b c, path c d, path d dest).
< 1321422949 417386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Except an arbitrary number of those, obviously.
< 1321422956 83551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a Seq, so fast access from the end too.
< 1321422982 681287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's used in oerjan's fancy n-cursor quadtree zipper construction.
< 1321423631 132556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ENJOY: http://hpaste.org/54095
< 1321423641 558279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is this correct?" -- yes it is, I'm an idiot.
< 1321423888 790377 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two esolangs on the wiki named 'clue' but neither has to do with Clue/Cluedo
< 1321423910 703588 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one should be made, where all legal syntax is of the form 'X, in the Y, with the Z'
< 1321423935 985929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it do anything interesting
< 1321423965 851848 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man what if it was an really verbosse brianfuck derivative
< 1321423977 438721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent
< 1321424003 680683 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: :-(
< 1321424006 518199 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing in the thing with the thing -> a brainfuck comand,. depending on what the things are....
< 1321424018 445075 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look at what DCliche and monqy is doing.
< 1321424020 975841 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is/are/
< 1321424028 892795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: monqy is On Our Side, don't you worry.
< 1321424033 909294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is a True Patriot.
< 1321424036 483866 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what Our Side is.
< 1321424041 775461 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true patriots side
< 1321424047 10737 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a true esolanger.
< 1321424050 769977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we don't like brainfuck derivatives much, I would suppose.
< 1321424057 776860 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was imagining one or more of them could be variables
< 1321424065 647801 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most esoteric language I know is, like, Haskell, man.
< 1321424069 65442 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps being vaguely similar to SPL
< 1321424078 161229 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is haskell esoteric.........
< 1321424082 476973 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, C++.
< 1321424142 501522 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (I didn't say it was, anyway.)
< 1321424151 988620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom__Hoover Check your lambdabot mail as Phantom_Hoover.
< 1321424152 294489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424155 508187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Say the following to lambdabot, please:
< 1321424155 841370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424188 76518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it take to know c++? (I may or may not know c++.)
< 1321424190 190517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover @tell elliott Hey, you should try and coerce the GHC API into doing that hole-checking thing sometime. By sometime, I mean now; past you gets to decide exactly when you do things, those are the rules.
< 1321424190 560087 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424202 96124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold my @tell-myself-without-getting-lambdabot-to-bug-me-immediately-after mechanism.
< 1321424233 291674 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom_hoover best mechanism
< 1321424247 26878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom "best mechanism" hoover
< 1321424259 700403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phecanism.
< 1321424281 648186 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt you're going to do it as soon as you get that message.
< 1321424286 497759 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you might as well not have done it at all.
< 1321424302 628342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The idea is mostly so that I don't forget about it.
< 1321424311 142520 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Hey, you should try and coerce the GHC API into doing that hole-checking thing sometime. By sometime, I mean now; past you gets to decide exactly when you do things, those are the rules.
< 1321424311 428171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424317 973844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321424318 362258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321424322 218315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what you did?
< 1321424363 507079 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Hey, you should try and coerce the GHC API into doing that hole-checking thing sometime. By sometime, I mean now; past you gets to decide exactly when you do things, those are the rules.
< 1321424363 864108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424370 983275 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to stop.
< 1321424372 190086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf u mad
< 1321424372 606742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424373 83529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf u mad
< 1321424373 479821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf u mad
< 1321424373 525181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf u mad
< 1321424373 525423 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424373 658034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf u mad
< 1321424373 909347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424373 978369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf u mad
< 1321424374 233128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424374 283322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424374 569977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424378 9287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENJOY, FRIEND
< 1321424378 279113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321424382 244119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOO
< 1321424384 387450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messagse
< 1321424387 622834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1321424388 678881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages?
< 1321424392 619004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 24s ago: Hey, you should try and coerce the GHC API into doing that hole-checking thing sometime. By sometime, I mean now; past you gets to decide exactly when you do things, those are
< 1321424392 777155 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1321424394 620141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules.
< 1321424396 660163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages.
< 1321424404 129760 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, fine I get it.
< 1321424405 129062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules.
< 1321424422 122660 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric : @remember monqy the rules.
< 1321424432 694562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember monqy the rules.
< 1321424432 994893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will remember.
< 1321424443 791379 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget monqy the rules.
< 1321424444 178246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321424445 234315 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321424445 632872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
< 1321424447 365490 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321424447 772348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
< 1321424451 427718 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote ehird
< 1321424451 888214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird says: 2009: The Year of the Combinatorial Explosion of Haskell Web Frameworks. Also, the Linux Desktop.
< 1321424453 420586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember monqy the rules.
< 1321424453 791458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is forever etched in my memory.
< 1321424464 963173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote ehird
< 1321424465 363621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird says: 2009: The Year of the Combinatorial Explosion of Haskell Web Frameworks. Also, the Linux Desktop.
< 1321424469 37153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424469 530021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: Only two things in the universe are certain: Death, and two of the libraries you've decided to use taking different types of ByteString.
< 1321424472 832227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424473 195075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: i'm here to prove theorems and compile code and I'm all out of code
< 1321424475 264882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424475 592818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: I have weird mental spheres that I divide all my coding into and that determine editor and the like
< 1321424481 758878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1321424483 58026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424483 367683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: Top universities now employ people to watch infomercials all day to find the latest mysteries.
< 1321424486 980548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424487 387051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: Only two things in the universe are certain: Death, and two of the libraries you've decided to use taking different types of ByteString.
< 1321424492 511241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of quotes.
< 1321424498 993064 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321424499 550716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
< 1321424507 392553 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote Darth_Cliche
< 1321424507 862134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match.
< 1321424509 548427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember monqy the rules.
< 1321424509 986983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is forever etched in my memory.
< 1321424513 74507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is a bad man.
< 1321424515 757650 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote DCliche
< 1321424516 88413 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Maybe if you used more than just two fingers...
< 1321424529 742498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321424530 218139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
< 1321424534 386634 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules...
< 1321424556 109950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember monqy the rules.
< 1321424556 469358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will remember.
< 1321424557 331423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321424557 709548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy says: the rules.
< 1321424568 231861 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules.
< 1321424570 282912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Remind me to "@remember monqy the rules." because shachaf is a bad person.
< 1321424570 633930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424577 187375 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321424578 699209 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424579 115655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never forget.
< 1321424580 71064 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424580 436626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will remember.
< 1321424581 62158 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424581 398837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know.
< 1321424582 33502 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424582 405644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1321424585 595169 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1321424585 664932 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424585 989063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That...
< 1321424586 82498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424588 720841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321424592 568378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424592 954437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321424603 538479 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick Phantom_Hoover; /msg lambdabot @messages
< 1321424608 450081 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you keep spamming @remember
< 1321424615 609750 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424616 100927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321424617 170461 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424617 552136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321424618 595130 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424618 707141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCliche: shachaf keeps spamming @forget. In PRIVATE.
< 1321424619 187715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321424627 734472 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That ain't spamming!
< 1321424630 213207 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not as annoying as publically ;p
< 1321424643 166949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget DCliche
< 1321424643 487761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorrect arguments to quote
< 1321424647 452596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget DCliche forever
< 1321424647 923855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match.
< 1321424667 488873 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf
< 1321424667 755452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: We used to have a big collection of them but most of them got wiped in the Great Lambdabot Wipe of Every Few Months.
< 1321424673 617192 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424674 33781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: Top universities now employ people to watch infomercials all day to find the latest mysteries.
< 1321424731 280196 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321424731 734181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
< 1321424744 298291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf you are scum.
< 1321424747 498286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I AM LEAVING.
< 1321424751 402875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321424761 489279 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, and I was about to start singing.
< 1321424774 26164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scum songs
< 1321424782 638584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321424786 265986 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321424790 522888 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy and the rules. monqy and the rules. It's monqy, it's monqy and the rules rules rules rules...
< 1321424800 471760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE TO SELF:
< 1321424801 48243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype SupplyT s m a = SupplyT { unSupplyT :: (forall r. (s -> SupplyT s m r) -> SupplyT s m r) -> m a }
< 1321424805 731484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321424808 717883 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1321424821 13777 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott newtype SupplyT s m a = SupplyT { unSupplyT :: (forall r. (s -> SupplyT s m r) -> SupplyT s m r) -> m a }
< 1321424824 636512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321424837 485547 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424842 597282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424859 686217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember remember remember: never forget
< 1321424876 188770 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424876 557985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321424880 258778 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip
< 1321424884 504281 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott
< 1321424884 994730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: I have weird mental spheres that I divide all my coding into and that determine editor and the like
< 1321424894 996494 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a quote...
< 1321424913 741870 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote DCliche
< 1321424914 29762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCliche says: @remember elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321424921 315706 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good quote
< 1321424980 719337 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote Patashu
< 1321424981 104298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
< 1321424987 521079 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1321425025 350338 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCliche: How many times did you @remember that?
< 1321425032 504265 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember what
< 1321425032 916608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorrect arguments to quote
< 1321425049 256388 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCliche: elliott @remember @remember @remember
< 1321425075 19651 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back in half an hour or so, I need to count
< 1321425353 482783 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :46 apparently, not as many as I expected
< 1321425379 356657 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote lambdabot
< 1321425379 733693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot says: Done.
< 1321425382 970478 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote lambdabot
< 1321425383 416510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot says: why on the earth whould I slap dons with a wet trout
< 1321425742 324851 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321426075 525971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Xiaoerjing-Ekzemplafrazo.svg Anyone care to guess the language? (note: I can just about guarantee you'll get it wrong)
< 1321426612 939927 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The filename is a bit of a hint.
< 1321426617 839094 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Is it?
< 1321426651 859514 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I suppose it is.
< 1321426685 509132 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed that "Xiaoerjing" was vaguely Chinese-related before looking it up.
< 1321426696 141207 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, WTF.
< 1321426727 752401 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321426751 676792 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-79.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fucking Mandarin, the fuck.
< 1321427277 19393 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :western china?
< 1321428012 872103 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321429347 718888 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have guessed that "Xiaoerjing" would be vaguely oerjan-related.
< 1321429428 463830 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321429559 382894 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321429731 431182 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321431663 659160 :CakeProphet!~eris@h102.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321431663 760975 :CakeProphet!~eris@h102.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321431663 806334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321432324 948082 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1321432326 352223 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: madam president, may i offer my congratulations on his excellent report inviting us to reflect a vision of the future constitutional treaty. yet again we are suffering from this. allow me to intervene in this region where there is overcapacity, fishermen who can no longer stand by while saddam hussein keeps playing these games. last month the commission presented its legislative proposals for the 18 council regulat
< 1321432417 873822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321432417 944268 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321432435 917910 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches
< 1321432436 56589 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
< 1321432437 313978 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1321432444 253652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why do you not love me? :(
< 1321432450 899400 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :ElliotDrone1
< 1321432454 358053 :ElliotDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1321432455 92662 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ElliotDrone1: mr. chairman and fnord am very glad to be able to violate the ordinary rules of composition as well as society has its pleasures; as from the city.
< 1321432458 154709 :ElliotDrone1!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet
< 1321432951 2919 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oh?
< 1321432952 29684 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if i had written it all out the day before the furnace, so a fancy may be said that a man who had neglected his studies were fnord by the restless bed of fnord and i recollect that the most audacious libels on royal majesty have passed without notice; that the most audacious libels on royal majesty have passed without notice; that the most intense terrors."
< 1321435073 874757 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
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< 1321446090 985955 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1321456107 502217 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: is it okay if I pretend to have a conversation with you?
< 1321456109 1000 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there is one honest and industrious neighbours rather than among rioters and vagabonds. this matter is as much a theory of government in opposition to their prayer. when the question is not, i am fnord. fnord patron ( rousseau) et fnord fnord quod fnord urbi.
< 1321456129 62565 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh...
< 1321456130 42849 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321456130 744267 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches* ss wp youtube
< 1321456136 854193 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that so.
< 1321456143 878500 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ss
< 1321456144 609227 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
< 1321456152 658792 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, no.
< 1321456161 399221 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck
< 1321456161 981959 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673)
< 1321456169 834798 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no spoilers, please.
< 1321456170 469537 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: the only sad part is how easy it's going to be a long day. though it is pretty conceivable that i will remain an impeccable leader for a span. he is the first and they get progressively more difficult to reach a very high rolls he was lucky. my lusus sucks, what a terrible idea. leave me alone.
< 1321456181 413987 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321456201 67345 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oh, come on.  You're a terrible leader and you deserve to have such a sucky lusus.
< 1321456201 851784 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: john, try to stop me i dare you. published by major developers, was given a name! you've been eating it all day. and it might help you take a picture of a fella all worked! you love your scribblepad.
< 1321456254 940596 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I guess I will, then.  Even my scribblepad easily matches you... what kind of lame weapon do you have allocated, anyway?
< 1321456255 689608 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: this is it, like an apple or that it is your backup hat. problem solved, you guess. at the last minute she flung through skaian defense. what a royal mess of his lovely new horseleather bib. it just so happens that today, the 13th of april. another day of uneventful but highly satisfying
< 1321456261 636169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does it feel to be a major developer?
< 1321456262 229006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321456283 84613 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :An apple.  Yes, I can surely defeat someone armed with only an apple.
< 1321456328 747702 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they're armed with that sword alone?
< 1321456549 265161 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sword?
< 1321456652 933512 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321457607 892687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, that sword alone!
< 1321457616 452822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't stop, you know.
< 1321457661 163057 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the sword you speak of.
< 1321458829 410623 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321459006 14156 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYYYYYYS best VAX simulator?
< 1321459598 921851 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321459729 316110 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321460279 225424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321460463 682661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:34:10: -!- CakeProphet is now known as ElliotDrone1.
< 1321460464 405700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321460464 625950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: die
< 1321460919 275194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:56:46:  HEY GUYYYYYYS best VAX simulator?
< 1321460921 474948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dyson?
< 1321460929 779861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol' Phantom_Hoover here?
< 1321460937 595853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MORE SERIOUSLY, probably SIMH?
< 1321460941 244577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top on Google.
< 1321460946 780722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it does PDPs.
< 1321460975 433235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell it's good because it's unpronounceable.
< 1321460988 725542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, my name has an mh in it...
< 1321461129 284262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I tried to change my name to Ford_Prefect here, and then to Ix, but they're both in use.)
< 1321461434 315875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that the K combinator is operationally similar to \x y . x" — Haskell wiki.
< 1321461438 188648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar?
< 1321461497 249066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SKI calculus isn't defined in terms of the lambda-calculus.
< 1321461513 304736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but operationally they're identical.
< 1321461549 889273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1321461560 881882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But you have to define a system with both of 'em to say things like that.
< 1321461569 745574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it's not clear what "identically" means at all.
< 1321461645 491448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I nearly used a hyphen rather than a diaeresis.
< 1321461654 587901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You almost weren't terrible.
< 1321461674 97350 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL TAKE MY DIAERESES TO THE GRAVE
< 1321461727 940035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diaeresae.
< 1321461732 921041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Ï WÏLL TÄKË MŸ DÏÄËRËSËS TÖ THË GRÄVË
< 1321461793 30497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah.
< 1321461881 871284 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/W/Ẅ/g;s/H/Ḧ/g
< 1321461912 77147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to try them on all the consonants, but I couldn't be bothered.
< 1321461996 189336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hey WISE GUY, I've got a TEAM OF PHDS working on my N-CURSOR ZIPPER SPARSE DISCERETE INFINITE LAHEY-SPACE INTERFACE
< 1321461999 67167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HA HA HA
< 1321462039 951362 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope it works out for you
< 1321462069 318145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'VE USED ABOUT SEVEN GADTS AND UNSAFECOERCE, IT FUCKING BETTER
< 1321462473 838412 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YeahOK, SIMH seems like the way. Unfortunately PDP's will never be supported, I need too much memory :P
< 1321462479 942378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321462494 262972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, three kilobytes?
< 1321462546 126549 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't measured, actually :P
< 1321462550 497943 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But probably ~10M
< 1321462801 259491 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, I feel VAX would be a nice topper for my JIT :P
< 1321462842 968336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can't help but feel you'd do better if your language was less boring :P
< 1321462852 691059 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a point ...
< 1321462855 236906 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What shall I add?
< 1321462877 184400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think more along the lines of "change" than "add", but that's probably way too much work at this point :P
< 1321462890 914076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a lot of the winning IOCCC entries do something fairly impressive even apart from their code.
< 1321462895 80141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still deserve to win though :P
< 1321462916 413177 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "fairly impressive" part is that it JITS EVERYWHERE :P
< 1321462933 714382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, but you can't tell that just from running it, and it's no flight sim :P
< 1321462946 713809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW you should integrate this technology into Fythe! :p
< 1321462954 557840 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321463156 998394 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1321464110 196630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy
< 1321464251 997583 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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< 1321464808 77428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BEHOLD YOUR DEFEATER: http://sprunge.us/MfXU
< 1321464861 174068 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been beheld
< 1321464909 321961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There is noooo way you properly beheld that in the time it took you, did you even NOTICE the unsafeCoerce?
< 1321464912 376594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rank-2 fold??
< 1321464927 950000 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the unsafeCoerces, noticed the fold though
< 1321465058 82759 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321465110 724773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy you behold too http://sprunge.us/MfXU
< 1321465127 295638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also this is only a quadtree, it's going to require something even more ridiculously involved for something decent :-/
< 1321465140 142638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus the fact that I don't actually have the algorithms to move the cursors about yet
< 1321465141 715889 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I recommend a bucket PR-CIF k-d tree
< 1321465179 86778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe
< 1321465191 351886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd rather not use something that wants a dynamic array, at least
< 1321465205 176564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'll have to use something slightly different from anything you say to establish my superior thinking
< 1321465217 966885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually hmm
< 1321465225 320873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You use a dynamic array just so you can load the whole file into one, don't you
< 1321465227 542877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sneaky
< 1321465229 903364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sneaky and deceitful
< 1321465277 453295 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do that since the file isn't rectangular
< 1321465288 841213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't mean directly
< 1321465298 690815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I just mean, you do it so that you don't have to deal with cross-array boundaries during file loading
< 1321465299 332296 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then yes
< 1321465306 683286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sneaky, and wrong
< 1321465330 30501 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in a sense I have to deal with them, if there're arrays already there
< 1321465361 666486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, yes, but it still speeds up your initial load
< 1321465384 284667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to resolve myself to being slower on Mycology and faster on Fungicide
< 1321465388 795772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/resolve/resign/
< 1321465395 376074 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to something like a hash table, it should, yes
< 1321465437 48273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Compared to the structure you have but with fixed-size arrays :P
< 1321465498 528720 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to that too, it should, yes
< 1321465512 193834 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point was to not use fixed-size arrays :-P
< 1321465533 495051 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it turned out that not having the compiler optimize x*C into a shift-and-add was a bottleneck
< 1321465616 266267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't see how dynamic arrays really help much, if you have a fancy k-d tree
< 1321465623 417032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or other sufficiently smart space :P
< 1321465630 498016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly the indexing is a lot more trivial
< 1321465674 559921 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they don't, it was more of a matter of principle
< 1321465688 57577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321465723 485802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thankfully I think this n-cursor setup doesn't actually really have that much overhead over mutation, so ha
< 1321465765 974596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It basically cuts off the tree at each point where a cursor is, zips those at the cursor, and then arranges the whole thing into a zipper)
< 1321465767 587288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sort of)
< 1321465771 940568 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point being to one-up cfunge's "lol here's a int[1024*256], turns out it's fast to do stuff in that" with "I have no constants in my funge-space implementation and it's faster than yours"; unfortunately that didn't quite work (see x*C optimization)
< 1321465791 820383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1321465814 885512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're still slower on Mycology, right :-)
< 1321465817 821945 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And there were and still are other, different constants)
< 1321465822 262091 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AFAIK I'm faster on everything
< 1321465843 166932 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On full Mycology, I might be somewhat slower only due to executing more fingerprint tests
< 1321465845 399242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the heck do you beat it on Mycology; just your ridiculous fingerprint and stack microoptimisations?
< 1321465854 717859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like your fungespace will help any :P
< 1321465877 284460 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fungespace is effectively the same and other than that, maybe those play a part, dunno :-P
< 1321466073 378963 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I'm still slower on fungot's underload interpreter; can't remember for sure
< 1321466073 559160 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that is a winner's attitude, and there is no particularly good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear c
< 1321466108 115668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321466197 782959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What you need to do is implement UNDL
< 1321466207 655460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For AUA (Advanced Underload Acceleration(tm))
< 1321466377 972548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I... why am I actually considering implementing that
< 1321466395 28341 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321466475 906105 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't say
< 1321467375 348163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here is a PoC for four new buffer overflows in GIMP. Compile it
< 1321467375 515783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with open-cobol."
< 1321467380 35600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's what I like to hear.
< 1321467423 68361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, it's not proper COBOL.
< 1321467427 244221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a glorified cat.
< 1321467430 84559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the loop.
< 1321468287 275970 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cat repl.jch hello.jch gorepl.jch | ./jitchards
< 1321468291 705399 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1321468297 25394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow :P
< 1321468305 266155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's... not a repl without a prompt, y'know :P
< 1321468307 578576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what's gorepl.
< 1321468328 800485 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1) It has a prompt, I'm just suppressing it by catting shit in, 2) gorepl says "now run the function you loaded as main"
< 1321468341 674481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, it /detects whether stdin is a tty/?
< 1321468347 788406 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321468355 946819 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to cat repl.jch - | ./jitchards normally
< 1321468361 499115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it suppress the prompt then :P
< 1321468376 697472 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean it would show a 'put ur code here lol> ' thing
< 1321468381 978428 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's boring and stupid.
< 1321468389 219580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't call it a REPL then :P
< 1321468397 841106 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE, I'LL ADD A PROMPT
< 1321468402 630556 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen >
< 1321468407 448059 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​34 ++++++++++[>++++++>+>><<<<-]>++.>. [55]
< 1321468410 229370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You might also want to add the "read" and "loop" part so you don't have to cat - :-)
< 1321468422 788658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS you can forego a tape debug output?
< 1321468429 241790 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole system only reads from stdin, and it does loop X_X
< 1321468438 324689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't use bf_txtgen for single chars
< 1321468449 733294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants
< 1321468452 709075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '>'
< 1321468453 899225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  62
< 1321468454 999615 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's two chars
< 1321468461 709759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++[>+<++++]>-
< 1321468470 58879 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's two chars
< 1321468472 828894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord ' '
< 1321468474 60429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  32
< 1321468480 262310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++[>+<++++]>-.[-]++++[>++++++++<-]>.
< 1321468484 389603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...OK, I guess bf_txtgen wins this time :P
< 1321468486 448473 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats, it's longer.
< 1321468505 43831 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEYWAIT
< 1321468514 586214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :REPL = Read Eval Print Loop THERE IS NO "PROMPT" HERE
< 1321468535 195371 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321468535 528806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there isn't, but every REPL in the history of ever has had a prompt.
< 1321468538 802261 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321468538 971667 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My repl is 100% REPL satisfaction except for the P :P
< 1321468548 249988 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :REPL should print a prompt
< 1321468552 365257 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its userfriendly
< 1321468554 882741 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy vey
< 1321468562 241670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: R, E, P, L are necessary but not sufficient conditions :P
< 1321468839 248445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... lol bf_txtgen ignored my space and put a newline :P
< 1321469249 600753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I bet EgoBot is the one ignoring the space :P
< 1321469261 85088 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably
< 1321469994 41884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:25:05:  data MetaContext = MetaContext { nwNeighbor :: MetaCursor (To NW), ..., up :: MetaCursor dir, signPost :: SignPost } -- it occurs to me that some field name disambiguation will be needed
< 1321470000 666814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is going to need oerjisambiguation >:(
< 1321470033 634178 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lullll my circularity changes broke SPARC somehow :P
< 1321470041 163010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321470049 708896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you ever get it working on Itanium
< 1321470057 605203 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have a working simulator.
< 1321470065 908337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MMIX?
< 1321470077 730199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now there's a nice'n 8-D
< 1321470094 261204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Test with jsmmix :P
< 1321470094 319367 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except I have no stdlib, so can't really test >_>
< 1321470109 61764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More seriously, Alpha?
< 1321470132 498368 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC the only reason I haven't tried Alpha is that I was too lazy to build a cross compiler.
< 1321470139 477869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321470453 174510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I forgot how awful GHC's API is.
< 1321470740 319939 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fixed SPARC.
< 1321470746 508419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot
< 1321470830 594559 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem was very stupid, it was variable shadowing :P
< 1321470840 236822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think it was so sensitive to this kind of change X-D
< 1321470901 116673 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | |                                                                                  Target Architecture (alpha)  --->                                                                                                               | |
< 1321470905 106379 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | |                                                                                  Bitness: (32-bit)  --->                                                                                                                         | |
< 1321470908 792600 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, crosstool-ng?
< 1321470912 794721 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha ain't gonna be 32-bit
< 1321471279 691709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So does mushspace do k-d things or is it just capable of doing so without API changes in the future
< 1321471293 254769 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be capable
< 1321471301 162719 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mushspace == CCBI
< 1321471342 557796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, just checking that it won't speed things up massively in the short term before Shiro takes the lead :P
< 1321472171 180311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321472208 151472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1321472245 659901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1321472334 155265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/AXOB
< 1321472406 469318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^
< 1321472438 47891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: glanced at file list, eyes hit upon the source directory, tab closed
< 1321472444 780848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1321472446 352286 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wtf variant of the Alpha do I need to select X_X
< 1321472455 656232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call of link remains. perhaps this is the end...
< 1321472478 533245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't worry, it's sane
< 1321472483 710631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only very tangentially related to Feather
< 1321472489 152396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name of the language is Not Even Feather
< 1321472493 252167 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321472496 958153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's, uh, a very minimal syntax.
< 1321472503 401308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321472505 601598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just sexps
< 1321472508 477724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are really easy to parse
< 1321472508 640421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually I think it shares a syntax with Qq.
< 1321472518 984071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Qq/qq/
< 1321472523 339937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser would be even simpler if I didn't try to do type inference in it
< 1321472536 842092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  the parser would be even simpler if I didn't try to do type inference in it
< 1321472543 793448 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :719)  the parser would be even simpler if I didn't try to do type inference in it
< 1321472577 228378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is it sufficiently Not Feather that my apparent inability to find any self-modification is expected?
< 1321472600 981922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321472605 427721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have self-modification
< 1321472632 363269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is it Not Entirely Not Feather, then?
< 1321472633 186383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEF's a language designed for use as the backend of Feather interpreters
< 1321472636 885070 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321472641 722442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321472643 387196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it complete?
< 1321472646 909383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TC
< 1321472657 164201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a little tricky to avoid writing infinite loops in it
< 1321472665 636844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, is further expansion planned?
< 1321472681 828836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, someone should write a safe unsharchiver
< 1321472685 675634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, unless I find a good way to make evaluation less eager
< 1321472690 333490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how JSON was originally parsed with eval() and then people wrote real parsers
< 1321472710 677595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grrr, sharbomb
< 1321472717 100238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry; aren't they usually?
< 1321472720 228239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1321472732 793814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the main weird feature of the language is "overeager" evaluation
< 1321472744 750003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that the same as superstrict?
< 1321472748 310502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. doing reduction inside lambdas
< 1321472753 390419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321472754 22195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which tends to make things like Y diverge)
< 1321472772 383738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I think reimplementing this would be simpler than installing an OCaml compiler
< 1321472776 438398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does so
< 1321472782 83238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: The alphaev6 is not supported.
< 1321472783 960391 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF GLIBC
< 1321472791 289844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, reimpls, or installs OCaml?
< 1321472792 152043 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It said that for alphaev4, alphaev5 too
< 1321472795 671111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: former
< 1321472799 212619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321472818 45320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly a proof-of-concept interp
< 1321472834 408648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what's the difference between Var1 and Var2?
< 1321472836 207172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what I really need to show that NEF has fit its concept correctly is to write a self-interp with eigenratio 1
< 1321472853 163266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which argument it refers to
< 1321472959 219818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language has exactly two types: 1, which takes an argument of type 2, and 2, which takes two arguments, of type 2 and 1 respectively
< 1321472980 767193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions never return, so it doesn't make sense to say that the return value has a type
< 1321473005 631351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you at least reimplementing it in Haskell?
< 1321473056 912502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be possible to translate more or less directly, as apart from the I/O right at the start and some debug output, that interpreter is pure
< 1321473097 106999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1321473104 478283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep
< 1321473114 272189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so is Var1 a variable reference to a variable of type 1?
< 1321473124 914471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321473138 808106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool, I can represent the types in Haskell then
< 1321473163 96035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, and Call1 calls a 1 with a 2?
< 1321473170 48791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Call2 calls a 2 with a 2 and a 1?
< 1321473193 329030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call2 takes three arguments; the first is the variable holding the function to call (of type 1), and the other two are its arguments, of types 2 and 1 respectively
< 1321473197 424780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(of type 2)
< 1321473200 827379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Call1 is analogous
< 1321473203 73145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why can't the function be an expression instead?
< 1321473206 553634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that fundamental?
< 1321473213 849618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the main unusual feature of NEF
< 1321473216 904945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321473234 834352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is the return type of a 1?
< 1321473236 265519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 2?
< 1321473240 2037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can they return either 1s or 2s?
< 1321473240 761724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one, they never return
< 1321473247 622417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no function ever returns in NEF
< 1321473252 250251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK, what is the type of 2(2,1)?
< 1321473256 130129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321473257 856296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one
< 1321473260 571080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i use integers to mean "something of that type"
< 1321473268 170770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then how do you pass a 2 or a 1?
< 1321473275 155090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by getting it from a variable?
< 1321473279 971289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, surely it should be Call1 of (int * int)
< 1321473281 409994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or by giving a template
< 1321473284 11386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Call2 of (int * int * int)
< 1321473290 19698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not in the program type :)
< 1321473299 170631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to explain the language, rather than you to reverse-engineer it from the impl
< 1321473310 756539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a good idea
< 1321473324 326334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if I write (a b c), that can be interpreted as \0.a(b,c)
< 1321473335 306643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, \-1.a(b,c)
< 1321473338 436380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers are relative to parens
< 1321473344 218267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (0 0) = \x.x
< 1321473350 695521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1321473350 757858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it de bruijn or reverse de bruijn?
< 1321473368 74609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I forget which way is which
< 1321473386 77710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (0 0) always means \v c.c(v)
< 1321473395 623112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in de bruijn, 0 is the innermost var
< 1321473399 46666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reverse de bruijn, 0 is the outermost
< 1321473403 326453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(de bruijn is much nicer)
< 1321473415 345627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise, (0 (0 1)) means \x c.c(\y d.d(x))
< 1321473419 253138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0 is innermost
< 1321473468 725026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forward de bruijn, then
< 1321473553 636215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, ehh, is the only reason you have the arguments be programs instead of variable numbers so that you can use Exit and Error there?
< 1321473562 155005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can you actually nest calls and that's what this template stuff is?
< 1321473588 350327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's basically the same as giving a literal lambda as an argument to something
< 1321473597 424560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the arguments are either variables or function literals
< 1321473607 448386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and function literals can be very complex
< 1321473620 842131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "variable" I mean "lambda variable", btw, not the assignable sort)
< 1321473622 701197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, let me get a straight answer: is Call1 (n, Call2 ...) ever valid?
< 1321473634 842729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321473642 459882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is Call1 (n, Call1 …)
< 1321473643 915849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about Call1 (n, Call1 ...)?
< 1321473645 107544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321473660 76378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then indeed, i do not understand the language :)
< 1321473676 746595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a few examples
< 1321473724 413035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 0) is how you compile i into NEF; (0 (0 1)) acts like k; (0 (0 (2 0 (2 1 (1 0 2))))) acts like s; (0 (1 0) 0) acts like call/cc
< 1321473741 353463 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ohhey, it works on PPC and I never even did any work to make it, err, work there.
< 1321473741 463220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get I and K but not the others, although S looks familiar
< 1321473748 848284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think implementing it will probably be the first step in understanding it; it tends to be with languages this simple
< 1321473750 574001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Neat
< 1321473768 450343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I believe this means I can't actually do the type trick I was planning :)
< 1321473778 136205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I tried to do that trick too
< 1321473785 129308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't work
< 1321473787 687485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what type does exit take? 1 or 2?
< 1321473799 929944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit's of type 1
< 1321473808 88266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it isn't
< 1321473811 184149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't a program
< 1321473812 904973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has no type
< 1321473819 104096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in (Exit p), what type must p have?
< 1321473829 188265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it takes one argument of type 2; that's the definition of being type 1
< 1321473840 426009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't take an argument at all, because it's not a program!
< 1321473843 561447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a function from program to program
< 1321473848 331356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't
< 1321473850 673124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call1 (Exit, ...) # not valid
< 1321473857 760928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is, I'm looking at your ADT /right now/
< 1321473860 225661 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: /clear
< 1321473860 713994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Call1 (Call1, ...) # not valid
< 1321473868 1832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which is why Call1 doesn't have a type
< 1321473870 1265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not a program
< 1321473887 313932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet Call1 (0, Var2 0) is a program
< 1321473894 225115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes?
< 1321473900 994298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Exit p) is a program, obviously
< 1321473903 721843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit isn't
< 1321473905 357716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1321473915 316139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore Exit doesn't have a type, because a type is something programs have
< 1321473923 982326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, Exit takes a program of type 2 and returns a program of type 1
< 1321473940 52678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right; and I assume Error is a program of type 1 or 2, i.e. polymorphic?
< 1321473952 260318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, Error is me getting rid of code duplication
< 1321473958 850786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's of type 1, always
< 1321473967 859608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321473974 922716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data T1
< 1321473975 55293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data T2
< 1321473975 105662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Exp t where
< 1321473975 105788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Var   :: Var t  -> Exp t
< 1321473975 105934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Call1 :: Var T1 -> Exp T2 -> Exp ???
< 1321473975 455790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Call2 :: Var T2 -> Exp T1 -> Exp T2 -> Exp ???
< 1321473977 429106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Exit  :: Exp T2 -> Exp T1
< 1321473977 659134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I use the same codepaths for type 1 stuff (that don't have a type 1 arg) and type 2 stuff (which does have a type 1 arg)
< 1321473979 432705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Error :: Exp T1
< 1321473981 435811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why the trick fails :)
< 1321473983 250783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't fill in ???
< 1321473995 546545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just stick in Error as the type 1 arg
< 1321474001 670701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understood the language, I could probably do a better trick to reify the types, but I don't understand it well enough to do that now
< 1321474003 93165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ewwwww
< 1321474007 76855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not going to have Error
< 1321474013 534478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know >:)
< 1321474017 966894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't think you would
< 1321474032 70829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, why is it (Exit of program) instead of just Exit, used like Call1 (Exit, p)?
< 1321474069 459216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the given program is executed to calculate the return value
< 1321474080 422389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and so it would be with Call1 (Exit, p), no?
< 1321474089 222649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this me not understanding the semantics again :)
< 1321474100 296277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with the understanding-by-implementation approach is that it involves implementation
< 1321474109 96288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a side-effect of being hypereager
< 1321474123 922022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose Exit ends up being substituted into the first position of a Call
< 1321474131 320369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be there, so needs to be evaluated immediately, but without exiting the program
< 1321474146 119637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the argument to Exit's basically there to defer the evaluation
< 1321474189 960683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321474194 4199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the language probably needs a strictifier, incidentally, it'd avoid this sort of problem
< 1321474209 175131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make writing safe infinite loops rather easier
< 1321474213 763300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is Error something inherent to the language or just a way to get nicer reports than non-halting?
< 1321474215 967475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you wouldn't have to expand the language syntax at all
< 1321474233 271125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Error isn't inherent to the language, it's simply there because I'm lazy
< 1321474237 449324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321474239 90778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Exit, I mean
< 1321474240 291229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write an impl without it, and probably produce nicer error messages
< 1321474240 593399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry!
< 1321474260 699826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/1uOhf.png ;; this is the first time I have ever used three windows in Emacs
< 1321474290 488687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, basically, the input is a type 2 program and its type 2 arg; Exit is the type 1 arg it's given when it starts executing
< 1321474308 728203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't be needed if you didn't care about your programs being able to terminate
< 1321474322 633846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use type 1 programs rather than type 2 programs as the initial input
< 1321474470 538861 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, new reason for not testing on Alpha: I can't get a bloody cross-compiler at all >_<
< 1321474525 33859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need a wider screen to do this three-pane coding :(
< 1321474541 178371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I typically split one of the halves horiziontally when doing three-pane
< 1321474547 745663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just switched to that
< 1321474555 830441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with a horizontal divider
< 1321474624 156882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Partial list of words I don't know the meanings of in the slightest: ig, incg, decg, substat
< 1321474649 990196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it's entirely possible to write a program that doesn't type, such as (0 0 (0 0 0)); atm, I detect type errors at runtime rather than statically
< 1321474673 459472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, incg and decg are basically used to adjust open terms
< 1321474675 614849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside substat
< 1321474704 853564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and substat itself does substitutions in the typical lambda-calculusy way
< 1321474727 726699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? you don't need substitutions with de bruijn
< 1321474750 236608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how are you going to implement an application of a lambda otherwise?
< 1321474772 144938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use a linked list; cons onto it when you do a call, and just index it when a variable is looked up
< 1321474780 576235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :var 0 = car, var 1 = cadr, etc.
< 1321474797 416319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but what if that variable hasn't been evaluated yet?
< 1321474797 600321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, ofc, you don't need alpha renaming
< 1321474801 34949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypereager, remember?
< 1321474808 392213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about it?
< 1321474822 175798 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321474831 116566 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://i.imgur.com/1uOhf.png ;; this is the first time I have ever used three windows in Emacs ← You've never used Proof General?
< 1321474831 452114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321474843 850404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: That doesn't couuunt.
< 1321474856 592453 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321474863 407784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: example: I just gave (0 (0 (2 0 (2 1 (1 0 2))))) and (0 0) as input to the interpreter (s and i)
< 1321474872 58217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here's the debug output:
< 1321474875 738813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0c (0c (2v 0v (2v 1v (1v 0v 2c))))) [(0c 0v), (exit 0v)]
< 1321474877 147856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exit 0v) [(0c (1v 0v (1v 0v 1c))), error]
< 1321474878 618944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0c (1v 0v (1v 0v 1c)))
< 1321474899 799090 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom___Hoover
< 1321474901 644832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that's not going to help me; ais523: if you mean that you have to evaluate expressions before consing them, so what?
< 1321474903 467586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321474907 483484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that easily
< 1321474909 734902 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1321474913 840688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, you have to cons them before knowing what they are
< 1321474919 159131 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shoddy.
< 1321474922 717157 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1321474926 99299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right; that's easy
< 1321474928 184085 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1321474935 132505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you just use a linked list of (Maybe Exp) instead
< 1321474937 521986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf!
< 1321474940 275238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing means you don't know what it is yet
< 1321474948 513135 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't you owe me a message or two?
< 1321474950 513456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but how can you tell which Nothing is which afterwards?
< 1321474963 883558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what?
< 1321474966 785115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf friendship message
< 1321474967 250094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321474979 46618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: in the above example, I start with (0 (0 (2 0 (2 1 (1 0 2))))), then substitute in (0 0) and exit
< 1321474989 839567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get exit (0 (1 0 (1 0 1)))
< 1321475025 556585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, we're substituting for the first 2 in (0 (2 0 (2 1 (1 0 2))))
< 1321475027 288867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just going to keep quoting programs at me you know I can't yet read, right? anyway, the whole point is, if you get Nothing, abort reduction of that variable
< 1321475034 246359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but failing that, you can have (Either Int Exp) instead
< 1321475040 990739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to keep track of them
< 1321475044 431156 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321475146 339260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK; so suppose I want to evaluate the following open term: (0 0) applied to 0 and (2 1 (1 0 2)); that's going to give me ((2 1 (1 0 2)) 0), but I don't know what the 2 at the start refers to
< 1321475153 703657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it refers beyond the start of the expression
< 1321475160 757949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me translate into lambda calculus
< 1321475228 124816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321475250 306858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I'm confused
< 1321475253 474713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1321475260 622324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1321475283 583796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty certain your suggestion is incorrect, but need a bunch of calculation to work out why
< 1321475307 659251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol
< 1321475320 85719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i implemented your cursor stuff and PSeq, just without any operations :P
< 1321475334 906442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, turns out what i thought the gadt record syntax was is deprecated, you were right with Foo :: { ..., ... } -> R
< 1321475347 264775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's because it gets the evaluation order wrong
< 1321475371 699265 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it's Foo :: { a :: Int } -> { b :: Char} -> R, isn't it?
< 1321475374 513367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I refuse to believe you have an evaluation scheme which cannot be implemented with an environment and absolutely requires substitution; that's patently ridiculous
< 1321475382 62362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even if my specific solution doesn't work
< 1321475399 880797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha.  i noticed wrt PSeq you said something about unsafeCoerce :P
< 1321475408 33776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there probably is a way to do it with an environment, just not the way you suggested
< 1321475408 743832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Nope.
< 1321475411 991612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that may be the simplest way to implement it
< 1321475423 16414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I didn't feel like implementing my own finger trees :P
< 1321475434 758421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fear it'd get exponentially complex to maintain the environment
< 1321475451 162232 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321475477 160537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt it
< 1321475498 434751 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ugh.
< 1321475503 164650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't see why Unknown doesn't work; if you get Unknown back, then behave as you would with an unsubstituted variable reference in a substituting implementation
< 1321475506 96195 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right.
< 1321475517 576985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's see… suppose I have \x.(… some expression containing a call of x …), and apply a value to it
< 1321475530 271080 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks GADT syntax and regular syntax could be unified into something better pretty easily.
< 1321475560 420997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I have one append-only stack (because no returns) that contains the values of open terms in the current expression
< 1321475579 374225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, I have to traverse the inside of the brackets to find all uses of x in call position, and evaluate them immediately
< 1321475581 787514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: zipper.hs: http://sprunge.us/BDYL
< 1321475585 803102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: PSeq.hs: http://sprunge.us/IBPQ
< 1321475600 304630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mmhm
< 1321475611 411949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what stack do I use to evaluate /those/?
< 1321475618 249091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do I put on it?
< 1321475665 791636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: say the environment for ((\x. ... (x e) ...) xv) is [a,b,c]; the environment for evaluating (x e) is [xv,a,b,c]
< 1321475697 286538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say x = \q.u
< 1321475699 756835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… that breaks the links between numbers and positions in the list
< 1321475711 102697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the environment for evaluating u is [e,a,b,c]
< 1321475713 367690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because scoping
< 1321475715 830115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it doesn't
< 1321475726 935155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [xv,a,b,c]!!0 = xv
< 1321475729 623728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[xv,a,b,c]!!1 = a
< 1321475733 458343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if I have ((\x. … ( … (x e )) …) xv)
< 1321475736 310549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :de bruijn is retained
< 1321475749 584723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: calls don't introduce new bindings, so that's irrelevant
< 1321475756 142050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to need to use [xv,?,a,b,c] as the list
< 1321475769 95105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321475775 623183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, [?,xv,a,b,c]
< 1321475785 17389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: think of it in number terms; x won't be 0 inside (x e)
< 1321475788 807798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be some larger number, like 2
< 1321475805 498066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it won't, unless by "..." you meant "... that includes a lambda"
< 1321475810 956861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, right
< 1321475817 854487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all open parens imply a lambda in NEF
< 1321475824 893929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so counting parens and counting lambdas comes to the same thing
< 1321475838 651930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so what you're discovering is, parsing an expression containing variables into de bruijn requires a map from variable name to integer
< 1321475847 770016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each integer increases for each new lambda
< 1321475851 216866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking
< 1321475864 314991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, unrelated to the semantics of a language coded directly in de bruijn
< 1321475881 603452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're talking about the implementation
< 1321475906 629214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and you have successfully confused the issue by using named variables which has somehow turned into a point involving conversion to de bruijn
< 1321475916 373311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is irrelevant since named variables feature nowhere except in your attempted explanation afaict
< 1321475942 681685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going on /your/ example
< 1321475948 746220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you refuse to read examples involving numbers
< 1321476025 734933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it were de bruijn lambda calculus i would understand perfectly
< 1321476039 321560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do "refuse" (am unable to) understand examples in a language I'm in the process of trying to understand, yes
< 1321476048 161188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort-of is, just with a weird evaluation order
< 1321476054 159763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what syntax do you want for de bruijn lambda calculus?
< 1321476108 562463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp := int | '(\' exp ')' | '(' exp exp ')', with omitted parens for repeated left-associative application, and whitespace to separate integers?
< 1321476125 393669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parens on outermost lambdas omittable, etc.
< 1321476275 86477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1321476334 231914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEF's syntax is basically that, except that it uses (…) rather than (\…), and that a lambda can take two arguments instead of one; both of the arguments has the same number, and it works out which is being referred to by the type
< 1321476357 695341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK; I certainly have a better understanding of the lambda-calculus though
< 1321476488 197868 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*First time looking at VAX* I like how VAX is clearly the primary influence for x86 :P
< 1321476526 890092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ian#DEC_VAX
< 1321476538 2593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ("Other Neat CPUs" section is great also)
< 1321476585 564191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CALLG is really cool, hardware varargs :P
< 1321476589 220308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :POLYx is also hilarious
< 1321476605 826893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CASEx has a format like this: selector.rx, base.rx, limit.rx, displ[0].bw, ..., displ[limit].bw The instruction has "limit+3" operands. Not only can the VAX not tell how long the instruction is until it's completely decoded, it can't even tell how many operands it has! The whole thing can be 4GB long. Technically it can be 8GB long, but the VAX only has 4GB of addressing space."
< 1321476618 181742 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my JIT currently does not (seem to?) work on VAX, and I think I know why, but not how to fix it ...
< 1321476619 788551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, go on
< 1321476633 333121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I'm in the middle of something else
< 1321476639 926445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get distracted easily
< 1321476641 956637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321476643 61686 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, NetBSD VAX = yesssssssssssssss
< 1321476645 854617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try it on this: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Timeline_of_esoteric_programming_languages#AS.2F400
< 1321476702 822643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you look :P
< 1321476712 548343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in your foldr, i think the (forall a. result a a) can simply be result dest dest
< 1321476720 625137 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Need compiler and simulator (also, CISC is usually the easiest, I think the issue with VAX is that it has markers at the beginning of functions which are not valid instructions but need to be there (?????))
< 1321476742 457285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, so it can. that seems really ugly: why can't it be result src src, too?
< 1321476764 667366 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not *really*; x86 was more influenced by earlier Intel designs than anything else. That said, CISC had a lot of crazy stuff.
< 1321476770 425316 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yay 32-bit PDP-11!
< 1321476784 320524 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup, my generated code totally has halts in it :P
< 1321476810 544106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmm, is VAX the architecture that didn't have a stack, but rather stored return addresses just before the start of a function?
< 1321476837 713641 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... I can't imagine so, that wouldn't work with C very well. Recursion and what have you.
< 1321476857 665282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't, IIRC
< 1321476880 80553 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it.
< 1321476884 611503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: result src src would be for foldl, obviously... it's what replaces the right and left end, respectively.
< 1321476896 915251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right
< 1321476909 815323 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but isn't AS/400 or i that thing that has a machine-independent binary format and is currently implemented using POWER7?
< 1321476911 653447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's weird about seqs is that they have, I think, four folds
< 1321476920 124100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foldr, foldl, foldrFromRight, foldlFromRight
< 1321476932 737736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321476933 738115 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as the PDP-11 used a stack, and the VAX started as a 32-bit PDP-11.
< 1321476948 574830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: although, I suspect that foldr == foldlFromRight and foldl == foldrFromRight in results, just not in semantics
< 1321476952 339773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1321476955 356949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as in, evaluation semantics
< 1321476975 861080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: presumably it may matter in thunk buildup
< 1321476982 14359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, that's what I meant
< 1321476996 710353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: incidentally, i note that one can have a PSeq of PSeqs...
< 1321477003 349883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. (PSeq (PSeq path) src dest)
< 1321477008 806163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which got me wondering what Mu PSeq is >:)
< 1321477025 631224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately I think it's just data Foo = Foo | Bar Foo Foo
< 1321477041 950806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no value with src =/= dest
< 1321477096 912891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in fact you would probably want foldl to be fromRight by default, since the other options just add thunks needlessly; the ' versions though would go the other way for both foldl and foldr.
< 1321477105 79436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1321477172 925348 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, who's this "Ian"? I'd like him to explain why CASEx needs to be completely decoded to know how many operands it has
< 1321477190 806415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PSeq is sort of a * -> * -> * type transformer
< 1321477194 739390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: esowiki guy, ping him on his talk page or use the wiki email thing?
< 1321477200 546840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed
< 1321477214 805545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: incidentally, you can't implement Show (PSeq path src dest) because you need (forall a b. Show (path a b)) :-(
< 1321477215 962335 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict, limit is the third operand and should say exactly how long the rest of it is
< 1321477219 24454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and one other thing i thought of, you could make a Category instance for PSeq
< 1321477223 394293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh
< 1321477224 786480 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: meh, can't be bothered logging in
< 1321477227 434901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shiny
< 1321477229 726303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably even have an account
< 1321477246 991841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's sort of a free category on the path type
< 1321477266 149867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i wonder if it's an arrow... arr seems tricky, maybe it's an arrow if the path is
< 1321477353 574780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a super pretty structure
< 1321477429 754283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think your Mu PSeq is more than that; it would allow constructing empty PSeq's at all nesting levels wouldn't it, so it would work similarly to building up set theory from empty lists.  oh hm you could never get a PSeq a b for a /~ b, i think, so it may be equivalent to Mu Seq.
< 1321477451 105073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what i said
< 1321477455 673077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo = EmptyList | Cons Foo Foo
< 1321477475 875976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[],[],[]] = Cons EmptyList (Cons EmptyList (Cons EmptyList EmptyList))
< 1321477476 408905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1321477482 271673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well if you consider cons lists equivalent to Seq's...
< 1321477487 720561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok
< 1321477495 401494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldl'
< 1321477496 19635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' f a []     = a
< 1321477496 193553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' f a (x:xs) = let a' = f a x in a' `seq` foldl' f a' xs
< 1321477500 914175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, they just use an ugly let too
< 1321477542 419539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yikes, I'm not sure foldr' is possible
< 1321477548 916027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because of the fiddly parametrisation
< 1321477564 769419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might implement Show if you made a Show2 class for path
< 1321477568 291746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed
< 1321477577 653121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(***) :: PSeq path a b -> PSeq path b' c' -> PSeq path (b, b') (c, c')
< 1321477580 4200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow that's pretty
< 1321477583 12605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like simulwalking!!
< 1321477588 765593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not sure it's possible though
< 1321477591 637115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what if the lengths differ
< 1321477759 982442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would foldr' (and equivalently foldl') not work?
< 1321477763 713056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because
< 1321477767 89087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: result a a
< 1321477767 222572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Actual type: result mid dest
< 1321477767 267830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `foldr'', namely `z''
< 1321477767 268012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `seq', namely `foldr' f z' ps'
< 1321477773 489152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where z' = f pn z from the right
< 1321477811 542410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh i see
< 1321477818 61967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can relax the type
< 1321477829 987514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1321477835 210222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b c -> result a c) -> (forall a. result a a) -> PSeq path src dest -> result src dest
< 1321477843 486022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just pasting to get something to edit)
< 1321477850 882881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already releaxed foldr to result dest dest
< 1321477853 635066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this doesn't work with that
< 1321477856 619020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the quantified version
< 1321477872 892094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b c -> result a c) -> result dest end -> PSeq path src dest -> result src end
< 1321477887 153240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_that_ might work, and even with foldr'
< 1321477929 708578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same error:
< 1321477931 252903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: PSeq path src mid
< 1321477931 386733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Actual type: PSeq path src dest
< 1321477931 431958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the third argument of `foldr'', namely `ps'
< 1321477931 432242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `seq', namely `foldr' f z' ps'
< 1321477935 307733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321477942 836557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the same error but it's still a mismatch
< 1321477943 465742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321477955 763980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr'
< 1321477955 897805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b c -> result a c)
< 1321477955 943166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  -> result dest end
< 1321477955 943312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  -> PSeq path src dest
< 1321477955 943412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  -> result src end
< 1321477956 517774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr' f z ps =
< 1321477958 270609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  case viewr ps of
< 1321477960 273247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    PEmptyR -> z
< 1321477961 463228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321477962 277924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ps' :> pn ->
< 1321477964 279553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      let z' = f pn z
< 1321477966 282310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      in z' `seq` foldr' f z' ps
< 1321477968 285970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/Code/shiro/PSeq.hs:98:31:
< 1321477970 288750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match type `dest' with `mid'
< 1321477972 292346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      `dest' is a rigid type variable bound by
< 1321477974 295901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :             the type signature for
< 1321477976 298660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :               foldr' :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b c -> result a c)
< 1321477978 300383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                         -> result dest end
< 1321477979 569849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: foldr :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b -> result a) -> result dest end -> PSeq path src dest -> result src
< 1321477980 304062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                         -> PSeq path src dest
< 1321477982 307028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                         -> result src end
< 1321477984 309151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :             at /home/elliott/Code/shiro/PSeq.hs:93:1
< 1321477986 314190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      `mid' is a rigid type variable bound by
< 1321477988 316704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            a pattern with constructor
< 1321477990 322225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              :> :: forall (path :: * -> * -> *) src dest mid.
< 1321477992 325570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    PSeq path src mid -> path mid dest -> PViewR path src dest,
< 1321477994 327789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            in a case alternative
< 1321477996 330462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            at /home/elliott/Code/shiro/PSeq.hs:96:5
< 1321477998 332954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: PSeq path src mid
< 1321478000 334685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Actual type: PSeq path src dest
< 1321478002 337604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the third argument of `foldr'', namely `ps'
< 1321478004 340225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `seq', namely `foldr' f z' ps'
< 1321478006 343966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed, modules loaded: none.
< 1321478008 345740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat
< 1321478010 349314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "-> result dest end ->"
< 1321478020 180824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oops
< 1321478030 914252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr :: (forall a b c. path a b -> result b -> result a) -> result dest -> PSeq path src dest -> result src
< 1321478044 407528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr', presumably
< 1321478057 46747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is slightly awkward if you actually _want_ a type with dest in it, i guess...
< 1321478059 136357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: PSeq path src mid
< 1321478059 270849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Actual type: PSeq path src dest
< 1321478059 316125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the third argument of `foldr'', namely `ps'
< 1321478059 316280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `seq', namely `foldr' f z' ps'
< 1321478066 700508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of wrong type argument order)
< 1321478083 24807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: otoh it does work as a type for foldr
< 1321478083 515308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl wouldn't have _that_ problem
< 1321478087 448628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not for foldr'
< 1321478097 921096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then foldr (<|) empty doesn't type
< 1321478098 920552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lol
< 1321478115 309068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, wrong type argument order
< 1321478127 901591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the changing argument doesn't get last
< 1321478193 907030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foldl' doesn't type either
< 1321478200 371428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the arguments always change with (<|)
< 1321478202 235772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from path
< 1321478293 722251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh you have a bug
< 1321478305 229803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok tell me but beforehand
< 1321478308 356971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at this
< 1321478309 894172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr (>>>) id
< 1321478310 31481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :: Category path => PSeq path src dest -> path src dest
< 1321478311 311737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in z' `seq` foldr' f z' ps  should be in z' `seq` foldr' f z' ps'
< 1321478312 550113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is beautiful :')
< 1321478326 550043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh
< 1321478329 919274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that fix things? :P
< 1321478336 135624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope :P
< 1321478361 670252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321478370 411297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1321478388 791811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh wait
< 1321478395 15947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think what needs changing is the type of f
< 1321478397 232385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to go /backwards/
< 1321478442 849301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not sure what that looks like, though :P
< 1321478531 756158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: argh, here's another bug for you
< 1321478533 323080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :singleton :: path a a -> PSeq path a a
< 1321478539 244079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how stupid can I be??
< 1321478661 390855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: omg omg omg
< 1321478666 397909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1321478667 566964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Arrow (~>)) => Arrow (PSeq (~>)) where
< 1321478667 700502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  arr = singleton . arr
< 1321478667 745945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  first ps =
< 1321478667 746096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    case viewl ps of
< 1321478667 746197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      PEmptyL -> empty
< 1321478669 570607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      pn :< ps' -> first pn <| first ps'
< 1321478724 458250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is not nearly excited enough.
< 1321478783 426015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not.
< 1321478803 276663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that foldr' compile (although with warning) if you remove the empty branch?
< 1321478852 755200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll try. but dude, PSeq is an arrow transformer!!!
< 1321478881 584504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321478884 251447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no
< 1321478890 659591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Expected type: PSeq path src dest
< 1321478890 793717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Actual type: PSeq path src mid
< 1321478890 839055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the third argument of `foldr'', namely `ps''
< 1321478890 839237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the expression: foldr' f (f pn z) ps'
< 1321478894 284680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah yeah I know it's not strict yet :P)
< 1321478920 189054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know, I could just unsafeCoerce this through
< 1321478935 349516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously a valid implementation
< 1321479001 710907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321479071 789165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you realise viewl/viewr unsafeCoerce already :P
< 1321479094 738768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm i note that there are two possible Categories for PSeq
< 1321479098 386052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm is it complaining about the foldr' being used with polymorphic recursion, _despite_ having a type signature?
< 1321479104 587157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Category (PSeq path) where id = empty; (.) = flip (><)
< 1321479120 539778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Category path) => Category (PSeq path) where id = singleton id; (.) = fold blah blah
< 1321479129 818837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's complaining because _ps' does not match the zero passed_
< 1321479173 770293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321479221 949538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :app :: (ArrowApply (~>)) => PSeq (~>) (PSeq (~>) b c, b) c
< 1321479223 891816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS WILL BE FUN
< 1321479341 863510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is your current code for foldr' ?
< 1321479357 848742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i rewrite it every time you come up with another idea. do you just want a file with foldr' in it? :P
< 1321479373 431236 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321479389 284782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to see if you broke it in some way i haven't seen while fixing my bug reports :P
< 1321479390 217226 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :luke-sr
< 1321479402 615321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :charming :P
< 1321479406 271326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one second
< 1321479416 732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I have to write basically (PSeq (~>) b c, b) ~> c
< 1321479437 284144 :luke-sr!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321479459 466082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sprunge.us/cjcR
< 1321479459 549546 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321479483 914811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I have (b ~> c, b) ~> c
< 1321479490 571183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need to turn that into (PSeq (~>) b c, b) ~> c
< 1321479520 116055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... app . first f
< 1321479536 597201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you removed the end type again, i believe that's essential
< 1321479554 37079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right.
< 1321479560 469076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i told you it doesn't type with that, either, but ok i'll try
< 1321479575 470847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but with that _and_ the ps fixed to ps' ? :P
< 1321479595 204727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'll never believe it
< 1321479600 597199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1321479607 189973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it works :P
< 1321479611 54360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION generalises foldr's type to that too
< 1321479611 104301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :P
< 1321479686 693038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for foldl and foldl' you can give result just one type argument, i think, because the fixed src is in the right place to be combined into result
< 1321479749 609757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh, so you can.
< 1321479755 401097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that upsets me though :( it's so inconsistent
< 1321479772 855470 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321479807 153193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :'(
< 1321479817 733856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it also feels wrong that the more natural fold is the one which needs more gunk
< 1321479821 831875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that with foldr[']? too, but then as you say foldr (>>>) id won't type
< 1321479848 524454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not foldr (<|) empty either
< 1321479889 420391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSeq (~>) (b, d) (c, d) -> PSeq (~>) b c
< 1321479890 419855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaa
< 1321479896 107872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the type variable you want to combine is in the last place
< 1321479918 933786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321479925 853775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the loop
< 1321479926 941345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: loop :: a (b,d) (c,d) -> a b c
< 1321479930 380277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance ArrowLoop (->) where
< 1321479930 510595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    loop f b = let (c,d) = f (b,d) in c
< 1321479941 997767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god knows how to implement it for paths :P
< 1321479948 94032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i want to tie each node to itself?
< 1321479954 318943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do i want to tie each node to the next node, and the last to the first...
< 1321479962 45851 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321479978 986447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to tie the final node to the first one?
< 1321479992 735892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what I said
< 1321479998 607199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or tie each node to itself, which seems useless
< 1321480050 872086 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does arrowloop have any laws
< 1321480056 239962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "ow"
< 1321480062 313342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably yes but they're in a paper)
< 1321480066 75608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's entirely lawless and evil
< 1321480069 872581 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learnt about Matrices in maths today
< 1321480083 33557 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally figured out what they're up to
< 1321480086 48406 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting?? I dislike matrices. yukce
< 1321480099 694434 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were kinda dissapointing
< 1321480104 274173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh well, I'll stick to the easy ones (ArrowZero, ArrowChoice)
< 1321480106 638860 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect
< 1321480112 880138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrices are cool.  just use a more interesting underlying ring :P
< 1321480119 654114 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, I dunno, something interesting
< 1321480123 416517 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Works on Alpha with no changes.
< 1321480128 837190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you did graphs before matrices????
< 1321480129 828335 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't think I need that at AS level
< 1321480129 906129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm...
< 1321480133 327185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yup
< 1321480136 426544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you might want singleton id == empty
< 1321480137 842099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for PSeqs
< 1321480141 977115 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there is nothing you can do to make matrices cool sory :(
< 1321480147 779734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when the path is a category
< 1321480148 264183 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have I mentioned that this JIT is magic and amazing :P
< 1321480153 2132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes.
< 1321480169 380838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you do that, you need to elude _all_ singleton id's
< 1321480175 27372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah :P
< 1321480176 195001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda tricky
< 1321480184 900123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so this is a decent PSeq
< 1321480191 972291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now it need to be applied >:)
< 1321480198 740346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh yeah, about MetaContext
< 1321480209 39788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:25:05:  data MetaContext = MetaContext { nwNeighbor :: MetaCursor (To NW), ..., up :: MetaCursor dir, signPost :: SignPost } -- it occurs to me that some field name disambiguation will be needed
< 1321480212 876695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are all neighbours present here?
< 1321480217 900093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is one elided?
< 1321480265 329119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all, i should think...
< 1321480270 243805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321480281 400515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needs to be a Leaf version of that too
< 1321480281 861476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the next question is "wtf is dir"
< 1321480311 276266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the usual, the direction this node is in relation to its parent
< 1321480314 360175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I think you could make a stack-based solution work, but it's dubious that it's better than substitution in this case
< 1321480323 47106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so quantified?
< 1321480326 179978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh should probably be From dir
< 1321480335 37186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, substitution is more space-efficient and equally time-efficient
< 1321480346 871219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does the leaf version look like?
< 1321480350 293062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, wait, have you learnt matrix multiplication?
< 1321480356 263795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK
< 1321480361 33257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has no neigbors, i'd think
< 1321480368 431209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the up and the signPost
< 1321480370 480392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so just (MetaCursor dir, SignPost)?
< 1321480370 846711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321480382 457013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the non-leaf case? aka name the constructor :P
< 1321480389 550043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the stack would only ever be pushed, and you'd have to GC the bottom of the stack when it went out of scope, which is nontrivial to determine
< 1321480399 912021 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, just today
< 1321480416 776506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, matrix multiplication is the worst.
< 1321480421 159007 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful
< 1321480425 661871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's messed up
< 1321480427 398170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :InternalContext ?
< 1321480432 952730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really messed up
< 1321480434 311684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just awful
< 1321480441 105966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to stare into space for a minute to remember which way round everything is.
< 1321480445 147413 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep losing track of it
< 1321480445 424026 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321480459 386869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um i was hoping for something short to compliment MCLeaf
< 1321480471 478389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've been taught it three different times by now.
< 1321480487 907469 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like you have a very good maths teacher
< 1321480501 341733 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've been taught simultaneous equations a few dozen times
< 1321480556 668939 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you done them with MATRICES?
< 1321480581 417002 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet
< 1321480592 779235 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've been hinted at that we will shortly
< 1321480595 341342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mult m1 m2 = [[sum$zipWith(*)r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1] in mult [[1,0],[0,2]] [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]
< 1321480596 346119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[1,2,3],[8,10,12]]
< 1321480607 845932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MCFrom? MCTo? work with me here :P
< 1321480617 325717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, the MC prefix clashes with MetaCursor
< 1321480618 374899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321480624 436041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MCInner
< 1321480627 640348 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321480634 998947 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-196.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321480653 955610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, and then, through some process that was never adequately explained to me, you use them for cross products.
< 1321480657 751937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data MetaNode exit where
< 1321480657 885213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MNFrom :: Neighbours1 MetaCursor dir
< 1321480657 931078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> MetaCursor (From dir)
< 1321480657 931239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> SignPost
< 1321480657 931339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> MetaNode (From dir)
< 1321480658 562905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MNTo :: Neighbours MetaCursor -> SignPost -> MetaNode (To dir)
< 1321480660 256108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MNLeaf :: LeafData -> SignPost -> MetaNode (To dir)
< 1321480662 258518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data MetaContext where
< 1321480664 261524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MCMInner :: Neighbours MetaCursor
< 1321480666 264190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :           -> MetaCursor (From dir)
< 1321480668 268212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :           -> SignPost
< 1321480670 270645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :           -> MetaContext
< 1321480672 274223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MCLeaf :: MetaCursor (From dir) -> SignPost -> MetaContext
< 1321480674 277761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: somewhat of a resemblance
< 1321480676 279873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/MInner/Inner/
< 1321480697 921374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *then* you get to the second-order non-homogeneous differential equations god I hate second-order non-homogeneous differential equations.
< 1321480709 916063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, the difference is MetaNode has a distinguished exit
< 1321480717 658617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an answer to the question "What exactly the error message is?" seen on a mailing list: "It's about glib lib."
< 1321480724 479775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1321480737 514605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it feels like i'd have half the types if everything took a list of directions to exclude on the type level :P
< 1321480752 951309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm scared
< 1321480753 435365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321480760 259254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, YOU SHOULD BE
< 1321480773 510107 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "irregularwebcomic"
< 1321480774 462837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  17
< 1321480790 753882 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was irrelevant to this conversation
< 1321480869 516454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, you know what the next question is (or do you??)
< 1321480906 262165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION afraid
< 1321480953 870530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I need a space to play around with :P
< 1321480969 537370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my leaf data is just String, so "" will work there, my IpId is just Int so that's easy, and my IpData is Double which can just be whatever
< 1321480980 439426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what type do i want as the top-level "space with n cursors"?
< 1321481014 920084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaContext was sort of what i imagine as the "start-from-here" type
< 1321481021 903607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321481044 632611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Leaf or Inner? :P
< 1321481057 942796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, if I ever say I'm going to install Haiku, can someone tell me I've already got the ISO and the image, and I need an SD card larger than 16MB
< 1321481074 567908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaf probably, since you would start on some actual befunge or what-it's-you're-doing cell spot
< 1321481086 504700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1321481130 380125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the SignPost should just be (Map.singleton 0 (Left pi)), right? if the IP ID is 0 and the data is pi
< 1321481138 25802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, might want a LeafData in the MCLeaf too
< 1321481141 698629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P
< 1321481160 573059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'd think
< 1321481171 619760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, all I need is a MetaCursor (From dir) now
< 1321481189 396609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data MetaCursor src where
< 1321481189 528714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MCPlain :: PlainCursor src -> MetaCursor src
< 1321481189 574117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  MCPath  :: MetaPath src dest -> MetaNode dest -> MetaCursor src
< 1321481197 317791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'll never guess what the next question is
< 1321481198 927102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you're starting with only a cursor there, that MetaCursor should be MCPlain
< 1321481242 685699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and the type tells me I need PCFrom
< 1321481250 31065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MCPath only starts being used once you have two real cursors in different spots
< 1321481286 696741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I can get to the neighbours afterwards, but what should the PlainCursor of the same type that PCFrom wants be?
< 1321481291 926641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's going upwards, right?
< 1321481296 391361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, going "larger"
< 1321481307 397463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321481319 295258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so it should be circular?
< 1321481322 882247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so From something
< 1321481324 327770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have a completely empty space right now
< 1321481329 950703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1321481331 415605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc = PCFrom undefined pc
< 1321481335 124213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PCFrom :: Neighbours1 PlainCursor dir
< 1321481335 169583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> PlainCursor (From dir)
< 1321481335 169783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> PlainCursor (From dir)
< 1321481366 996607 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321481394 542127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not entirely circular, things have types that change between the levels...
< 1321481402 433121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um that is impossible
< 1321481404 754100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          -> PlainCursor (From dir)
< 1321481404 884152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          -> PlainCursor (From dir)
< 1321481406 336956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exact same type
< 1321481461 452915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm so it is
< 1321481488 831242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the level types got forgotten in the transition to this.  maybe just as well :P
< 1321481512 252433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not sure that would even work :P
< 1321481523 92134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it could be polymorphically recursive anyway i think
< 1321481526 519482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's probably _some_ way
< 1321481550 909269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so now I need a (Neighbours1 PlainCursor dir)
< 1321481563 149235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's pick dir ~ NW :P
< 1321481573 614141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (Neighbours1 PlainCursor NW)
< 1321481576 110770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Neighbours1NW :: t (To NE) -> t (To SW) -> t (To SE) -> Neighbours1 t NW
< 1321481586 661773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: time for polymorphic recursion, right?
< 1321481592 278005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Neighbours1NW pc pc pc)
< 1321481601 77328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no!
< 1321481603 200108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pc is a PCFrom
< 1321481604 781823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a To
< 1321481613 158784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PCTo :: Neighbours PlainCursor -> PlainCursor (To dir)
< 1321481613 289188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PCLeaf :: LeafData -> PlainCursor (To dir)
< 1321481627 32722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, help me out here :P I want an infinite space with "" on all the leaves
< 1321481628 941997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i understand your Neighbors1 stuff
< 1321481639 712564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Neighbours1 t dir is just t (To dir') for all dir ~/~ dir'
< 1321481655 568338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to abstract all the "twenty constructors because we have a neighbour for every other direction" crap
< 1321481663 79889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321481677 464512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's an error there i think
< 1321481682 254773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1321481715 80769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dir in the second argument to PCFrom is the up dir, so should be unrelated to the others
< 1321481716 881944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was curious indeed because it seemed like I either had to make a finite space or have no leaves
< 1321481733 802166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc
< 1321481742 89521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one second then
< 1321481777 170256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  PCFrom :: Neighbours1 PlainCursor dir
< 1321481777 341392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> PlainCursor (From dir')
< 1321481777 386596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         -> PlainCursor (From dir)
< 1321481778 873885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yus?
< 1321481857 961365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321481859 772203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: MetaContext
< 1321481859 946238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = LeafCtx "" mc (SignPost $ Map.singleton 0 (Left pi))
< 1321481859 991832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where mc = MCPlain pc
< 1321481859 992023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc = PCFrom (Neighbours1NW pc' pc' pc') pc
< 1321481859 992125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc' :: PlainCursor (To dir)
< 1321481860 582173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc' = PCLeaf ""
< 1321481863 484431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's an infinite space of ""s, right?
< 1321481905 855815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wrong though, the pc part
< 1321481926 709324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :(
< 1321481940 234697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to include the level as an Int argument or something, so you know how far to go _down_ again before hitting leaves
< 1321481972 564558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mc = MCPlain (pc 0)
< 1321481998 991934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, and what does pc look like then?
< 1321482008 645111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what program are you discussing, btw? Shiro?
< 1321482015 327757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pc n = PCFrom (Neighbours1NW (pc' n) (pc' n) (pc' n)) (pc (n+1))
< 1321482031 538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pc' 0 = PCLeaf ""
< 1321482033 239704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1321482061 848200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok
< 1321482070 753502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pc' n?
< 1321482081 755658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pc' n = PCTo (pc' (n-1)) (pc' (n-1)) (pc' (n-1)) (pc' (n-1))
< 1321482088 6380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1321482102 564900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (and out of curiosity, what kind of space did I produce with my erroneous version? it certainly /types/
< 1321482149 399299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a space where you go up just fine, but where going down from anywhere other than the "trunk" gives you a leaf _immediately_
< 1321482153 23413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think.
< 1321482163 378130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*down to
< 1321482173 827013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah.
< 1321482178 405389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't sound like normal 2d space :-)
< 1321482186 955231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not :P
< 1321482203 676700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imagining that is hurting my head :P
< 1321482249 685843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like shrinking every quadtree region other than those containing your starting point into a single leaf
< 1321482288 502747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: MetaContext
< 1321482288 676824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = LeafCtx "" mc (SignPost $ Map.singleton 0 (Left pi))
< 1321482288 722840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where mc = MCPlain (pc 0)
< 1321482288 723004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc n = PCFrom (Neighbours1NW (pc' n) (pc' n) (pc' n)) (pc (n+1))
< 1321482288 723104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc' :: Int -> PlainCursor (To dir)
< 1321482289 504987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc' 0 = PCLeaf ""
< 1321482291 508722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        pc' n = PCTo (Neighbours (pc' (n-1)) (pc' (n-1)) (pc' (n-1)) (pc' (n-1)))
< 1321482293 511186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: success
< 1321482302 210280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321482322 937008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would use Integer, but... good luck allocating that much
< 1321482367 217601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so now for the question that will make you _really_ hate me.
< 1321482372 59856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you gave To and From type level integer arguments... >:)
< 1321482383 289258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do I make the focused cursor go east? :-)
< 1321482396 794236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1321482436 462566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in this case you'd first go up, then To NE
< 1321482542 893955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so would it be MetaContext -> MetaContext?
< 1321482548 109890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess
< 1321482602 582172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: reassuring :P
< 1321482609 426237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1321482742 318427 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't read too much into this question, but which words are absolutely fundamental to Forth?
< 1321482770 212444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Forth as in "like ANS Forth", or "like /Forth/" as in "particularly high in Forthiness"?
< 1321482778 851405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(colorForth is more /Forth/ than ANS Forth, but not very ANS Forth at all)
< 1321482787 439174 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Basically Forth flavored.
< 1321482788 881299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the sun's core produces about as much heat per cubic metre as a compost heap.
< 1321482797 900476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But take a look at jonesforth, and previous IOCCC entry -- what was it called -- fifth?
< 1321482806 619696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.ioccc.org/1992/buzzard.2.design
< 1321482808 191396 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But was it a JIT :P
< 1321482818 852510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See also other buzzard files in http://www.ioccc.org/1992/
< 1321482823 468212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And all Forths are JITs.
< 1321482846 620462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Erm, buzzard.2 that is.
< 1321482851 549436 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They certainly ought to be, but if there's already been a JIT in IOCCC, URGGGGGGH
< 1321482867 61033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://www.ioccc.org/1992/third of course.
< 1321482871 389145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, no.
< 1321482872 42386 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A threaded code JIT is a little bit different from what you're doing, of course.
< 1321482877 413446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: buzzard is just a freaky-deaky little thing.
< 1321482890 28191 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A threaded-code JIT ain't a JIT, it's a bytecode interpreter.
< 1321482896 130591 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH
< 1321482904 318250 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thee and thy making more sense than I
< 1321482906 47447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A bytecode interpreter that doesn't have an interpreter loop...
< 1321482910 775277 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Thee/Thou/
< 1321482915 949516 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So?
< 1321482927 344111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: An interpreter loop is sort of the defining feature of an interperter.
< 1321482937 241215 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (I mean, it's good fun, but "So?" in the not-competing-with-my-niche sense)
< 1321482944 998956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, sure.
< 1321482953 512304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Traditionally" JITting Forth is pretty heretical, anyway :P
< 1321482968 513032 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, it has an interpreter loop. Which has been placed at the end of every primitive. :P
< 1321482972 369107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pretty sure first (buzzard.2) has an interpreter loop for the threaded code, anyway.
< 1321482990 424184 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking that really there's nothing at this point that's holding me to my particularly-bad language choice.
< 1321483026 619414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think the judges might be unimpressed with "minimalistic Forth-like with most primitives implemented in itself", since that's exactly what FIRST/THIRD did so spectacularly :P
< 1321483031 569951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in under 500 bytes.
< 1321483037 98129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With indentation etc.!)
< 1321483045 914819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, change your language, but probably not to something Forthy.
< 1321483050 295824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nuff.
< 1321483068 318414 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go more functional.
< 1321483079 611174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: don't)
< 1321483081 626683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think his JIT would be any good at that :P
< 1321483087 145191 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it would not.
< 1321483096 951504 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He'd also want a GC if he wanted to do it right. :P
< 1321483098 394805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...OTOH, a mini-Lispalike might be interesting :P
< 1321483104 178964 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321483113 876288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp isn't exactly a functional language anyway. But I realise you have biases :P
< 1321483114 578293 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand, if you pull off a GC in the size restrictions, you are God.
< 1321483125 613952 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the GC is the real thing thar :P
< 1321483130 138165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehhhhhh
< 1321483135 314254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp programs don't cons THAT much.
< 1321483138 810760 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION taps his foot ...
< 1321483149 723752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you offer mutation of conses.
< 1321483149 769174 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm gettin' awfully close to the size restriction as stands.
< 1321483153 203643 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1888 bytes at last count.
< 1321483187 374837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I still think if you can't impress people with an interesting language, impressing them with an end result is almost as good.
< 1321483195 485074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. Write a program that does something fancy :P
< 1321483269 655428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you manually turn full.c into jitchards.c?
< 1321483271 837552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harsh.
< 1321483333 480760 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhhh, thusfar all I've done is selected areas of code in visual mode and G-Q in vim.
< 1321483344 944169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321483359 363294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not true: You use 9<<25 in jitchards.c but W in full.c
< 1321483373 921049 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't updated jitchards.c in a while.
< 1321483506 517705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Whoops, accidentally forked jitchards :P
< 1321483513 109448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deletifies.
< 1321483537 295552 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: >_> Does bitbucket let me prevent that I wonder
< 1321483545 301264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was privately, since I didn't futz with the boxes.
< 1321483551 660462 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1321483558 806383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (It was only slightly "accidental" :P)
< 1321483659 224359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I would test with gcc 3 too >_>
< 1321483685 138358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I find it really hard to believe that IOCCC isn't run on some ancient IRIX box :P
< 1321483697 985572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN IF THEY DO HAVE A TWITTER
< 1321483707 943367 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321483750 210973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "On the Vax main is called with
< 1321483750 383256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the calls instruction which uses the first word of the subroutine as a
< 1321483750 428696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mask of registers to be saved.  So on the Vax the first word can be anything."
< 1321483759 459886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://www.ioccc.org/1984/mullender.hint, the famous "main is a string" prorgam, referenced from the FAQ
< 1321483762 778969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That explains your VAX troubles :)
< 1321483782 512419 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I fixed my VAX troubles (now I'm having different VAX troubles)
< 1321483790 298208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VAX troublen.
< 1321483983 728040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Come on, laugh :'(
< 1321484052 154539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, IOCCC have a standard entry format :P
< 1321484056 218587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, custom file format...
< 1321484216 242750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mentioning your name or any identifying information in the remark section (or in the C code for that matter) - we like to be unbiased during the judging rounds; we look at the author name only if an entry wins"
< 1321484216 901120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1321484243 944053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Looks like you can't submit a makefile, just makefile lines
< 1321484283 653660 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321484308 809614 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321484309 862630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321484318 818323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, they tell you to test on a UNIX or POSIX-conforming machine. Gregor: You're going to have to test it on OS X.
< 1321484327 239632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1321484336 840877 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix
< 1321484337 810890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says conforming, not "said to be conformant by people with money".
< 1321484344 544803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your chances of fulfilling their guidelines are 0.
< 1321484376 805842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your entry must compile with GCC and run under at least one flavor of UNIX (e.g. Linux or Solaris). To improve chances to win, it should work under both BSD and SysV style UNIX (think stty cbreak), and should not depend on endianness."
< 1321484382 848956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, "style".
< 1321484386 410464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping they tested on real live SysV.
< 1321484447 437172 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is stty cbreak and why would it be relevant for an ioccc entry?
< 1321484479 133212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"$BSD = -f '/vmunix';
< 1321484479 301118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ($BSD) {
< 1321484479 347762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    system "stty cbreak /dev/tty 2>&1";
< 1321484479 347975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1321484479 348105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :else {
< 1321484479 633517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    system "stty", '-icanon',
< 1321484481 647532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    system "stty", 'eol', "\001";
< 1321484483 638271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}"
< 1321484485 641612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- ancient perl faq
< 1321484487 577975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you have to do the latter on sysv
< 1321484493 698241 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321484503 540630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC entries are allowed to call system()
< 1321484516 311049 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmkay... the question is, what does it do? :)
< 1321484553 686122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puts the terminal into rare mode, methinks
< 1321484562 247986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, ^C and the like still send signals, but apart from that it's raw and unbuffered
< 1321484579 71078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, useful for console tricks and the like
< 1321484625 600749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/gnuzip/gnuzip-28/gzip/zmore.in oh my god, is this real
< 1321484948 373062 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I call that "less".
< 1321484968 402273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, LESSOPEN.
< 1321485331 944855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan
< 1321485335 896209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EAST >:)
< 1321485446 636791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i note that NEF might give you problems whenever you neeed a circular structure
< 1321485634 402133 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Your entry must compile with GCC and run under at least one flavor of UNIX (e.g. Linux or Solaris). To improve chances to win, it should work under both BSD and SysV style UNIX (think stty cbreak), and should not depend on endianness." // nothing I do is especially OS-dependent.
< 1321485640 919688 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see no reason why it wouldn't work on SysV.
< 1321485666 329843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like System... SUCKS
< 1321485788 860706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, why does substat take both v and c?
< 1321485792 765268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or is one of them always Error?
< 1321485927 896246 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321485932 523469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes both v and c when substituting in a type 2 value; and v and error when substituting in a type 1 value
< 1321485941 876580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid code duplication
< 1321486012 433363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, type 2 values have two values?
< 1321486027 522058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, substituting "in"
< 1321486030 649062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, hmm
< 1321486047 164064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do the two arguments to a type-2 function have the same number?
< 1321486058 247883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, at definition site
< 1321486061 606756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which is used depends on context
< 1321486082 627794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, what's happening is that substat is doing two substitutions simultaneously, one on c, one on v
< 1321486082 740144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context being, the type it's used in?
< 1321486087 139132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321486090 442443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321486101 50857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always tell what type something is from where it is in the program, and the two args always have different types
< 1321486115 891782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interp I pasted actually adds a suffix, "c" for type 1 or "v" for type 2
< 1321486124 558913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because suffixing numbers with numbers doesn't really work well)
< 1321486137 764148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks you should call the types c and v instead
< 1321486152 350279 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, it seems my biggest VAX bug was outright stupidity.
< 1321486177 236701 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Using e where I meant x, thereby making the place I'm JITting into point off into the text segment.
< 1321486240 928343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, c and v are much nicer names than 1 and 2. Probably.
< 1321486358 547153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually I'm just going to call them c in v in my implementation.
< 1321486360 178914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't stop me.
< 1321486362 74810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rebel
< 1321486368 574651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1321486382 649821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 2, I find more memorable, because 1 args and 2 args
< 1321486464 726073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (VarC 0) is always illegal in the body of a c-lambda right?
< 1321486469 677278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only has one argument, of type V
< 1321486485 191155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if 0 refers to the c-lambda itself, yes
< 1321486498 530671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously legal if there are other lambdas in between, so that 0 has a different referent, and refers to a v-lambda
< 1321486509 701788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what "refers to" means, your terminology is awful
< 1321486543 731112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, refers to the variables of the c-lambda
< 1321486546 927667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which there is only one of)
< 1321486595 27600 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... ... actually it doesn't work on OS X :P
< 1321486599 624240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol
< 1321486656 969176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of anti-JIT security feature?
< 1321486679 241144 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nope, just more nonsense.
< 1321486703 456421 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321486703 555451 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00001f1a        leave
< 1321486703 632615 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00001f1b        ret
< 1321486703 678104 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00001f1c        calll   0x00037f14
< 1321486725 341718 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I thought I'd just call this absolute address after returning. Made sense at the time. Good luck finding an epilogue here.
< 1321486727 417362 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1321486770 560453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callllllllll
< 1321486787 563193 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Dood, it's gonna call the HELL out of that function.
< 1321486807 450811 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what IS that function
< 1321486864 588812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the function that gets called after a return statement returns
< 1321486876 86449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably says "error: backwards return" or something like that
< 1321486885 222762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: help
< 1321486898 887576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe os x has built-in coroutine support
< 1321486904 744124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can "ter" to jump to just after the last ret
< 1321486913 897498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it restores the registers and shit, by using a spaghetti stack
< 1321486927 368055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's calling the "resumed non-coroutine" function
< 1321486929 376733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes perfect sense!
< 1321487159 215077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I think substat is doing the work of about three functions :P
< 1321487171 209893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, seems about right
< 1321487177 10182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was four or five earlier but I realised I didn't need some of htem
< 1321487178 519914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them
< 1321487228 755382 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Out of curiosity, have you tried to run my JIT?
< 1321487230 975420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you only ever need one function, actually!
< 1321487235 280001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hell no; should I?
< 1321487238 362515 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'cuz so far all I really know is that it works on all these systems for me :P
< 1321487276 736973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm on boring x86-64/Linux/gcc 4.6
< 1321487295 362006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try it on ZETA C
< 1321487303 571131 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321487307 607943 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that'll work well.
< 1321487316 459398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bignum int, pointers are cons pairs... what could go wrong?
< 1321487385 983119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it in bcc (a 16-bit C compiler)
< 1321487389 327930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that, umm, only understands K&R, I think)
< 1321487424 677032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's actually a decent idea
< 1321487432 621917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do that (it has a flag to automatically run unprotoize before compilation)
< 1321487461 74681 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sizeof(int) must be frightening
< 1321487477 498014 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 16-bit won't ever work.
< 1321487504 519354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that pikhq is frightened of 2
< 1321487514 871927 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Bignum int.
< 1321487523 995272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1321487529 159291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong context
< 1321487632 185919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2 is pretty terrifying
< 1321487671 815803 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, there are less-shitty i86 compilers out there :P
< 1321487691 42467 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. owcc (wow, it's amazing to categorize owcc as LESS shitty than anything)
< 1321487698 712944 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/i\.e\./e.g./
< 1321487764 558203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, the Exp inside a CallC -- sorry, the program inside a Call1 -- has a new binding in scope, right?
< 1321487782 96104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the programs inside a Call2 each have a new c binding and a new v binding with the same number (the same binding on each arm?)
< 1321487789 242500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think so
< 1321487810 229430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: 2
< 1321487828 229073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/quit 2
< 1321488042 143043 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shoot ... I don't think I can make VAX work :(
< 1321488046 554658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :(
< 1321488047 441664 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321488103 329666 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Butbut all the world's a VAX!
< 1321488134 153636 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's CISC but (apparently?) functions have to be 16-bit aligned!
< 1321488162 701108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ExitVal = To DirVal | From DirVal; data DirVal = NW | NE | SW | SE; class Exit e where exitVal :: p e -> ExitVal; instance Dir d => Exit (To d) where exitVal x = To (dirVal x); ... class Dir d where dirVal :: p d => DirVal; instance Dir NW where dirVal _ = NW; ...
< 1321488169 32351 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really cope with function alignment not being the same as the smallest opcode.
< 1321488172 590641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just align everything?
< 1321488178 209385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think something like that is needed to actually _test_ these directions
< 1321488183 351927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It shouldn't hurt to align everything to n * size of smallest opcode for smoe n
< 1321488184 221821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some
< 1321488222 322422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why did i write p, i was going to use t...
< 1321488235 977683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ExitVal = To DirVal | From DirVal; data DirVal = NW | NE | SW | SE;
< 1321488238 144372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already have those
< 1321488248 134023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321488249 920746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the reification stuff, though
< 1321488251 784406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can add that
< 1321488276 513125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a bunch of the datatypes need Dir dir => contexts for their quantified types
< 1321488291 379882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they might be type erased entirely
< 1321488296 706301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is so you can "ascend SW" or whatever right?
< 1321488359 610670 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The crap?
< 1321488369 332673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this was primarily so i can look at a gadt value and actually find out which dirs it _uses_ inside
< 1321488430 483676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah.
< 1321488434 727976 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears.
< 1321488435 300436 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321488437 933492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mightn't a type family fit better? perhaps not
< 1321488440 996681 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not the codegen that's the problem.
< 1321488445 517657 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's pro/epilogue detection.
< 1321488452 413276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Alright
< 1321488458 872252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, if you see how...
< 1321488466 517313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not so familiar with them.
< 1321488470 157100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: The crap? // the crap what?
< 1321488530 65762 :CakeProphet!~eris@gate-30.spsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321488530 246928 :CakeProphet!~eris@gate-30.spsu.edu QUIT :Changing host
< 1321488530 292383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321488579 318931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit alignment for functions?
< 1321488580 484661 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-243-68.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321488581 887032 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*16* bit?
< 1321488639 845954 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ayup :P
< 1321488642 207227 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-176-36.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321488742 588234 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, even without VAX, I feel that x86[_64], SPARC, MIPS[el], ARM, PPC, Alpha is a pretty good list.
< 1321489605 78205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321489916 205846 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321490694 60370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go on... :P
< 1321490952 499408 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81ef6d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321491093 627776 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1321491444 485396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :(
< 1321491514 862954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, i'm actually fed up of this already
< 1321491525 521424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case that wasn't obvious)
< 1321491528 496642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION creys
< 1321491708 190184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan shall forever be known as the person who sided with the finns and swedes
< 1321491734 286144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1321491741 445806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant and vorpal
< 1321491754 22278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SAYING
< 1321491921 899614 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-138.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321492058 304218 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-240.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321492261 924807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has now committed seppuku.
< 1321492276 963243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains...
< 1321492284 517015 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321492287 651749 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321492290 674038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi brains
< 1321492309 827809 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1321492312 484695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i will now pester monqy for the algorithm instead to make you feel bad.
< 1321492318 931984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi algorithm
< 1321492322 273980 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what algorithm :(
< 1321492323 830461 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321492324 111412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy
< 1321492356 904247 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, two different people in two different chatrooms greeted with pluralization...
< 1321492370 815249 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I assume "brains" is just a part of context of prior conversation
< 1321492388 53462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: east algorithm
< 1321492396 565756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is too scandinavian to tell me the secrets
< 1321492398 247923 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :east algorithm
< 1321492430 648218 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is east algorithm what are you talking about ;_; ;_;; _;;;;;
< 1321492446 705780 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iv'eb eeeen too busy python to pay attenteion :(
< 1321492499 579286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well basically you need to go up in a quadtree, then in the right direction to end up east of where you were.  the trouble is all the extra scaffolding of data which makes even those steps insanely tricky
< 1321492555 802411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm going to give it a shot myself, and if i fail i will die HOPE YOU FEEL GOOD
< 1321492646 172308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321492651 971528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, aww
< 1321492671 853193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um out of curiosity is the "p" used in exitVal/dirVal just standing in for Proxy or similar?
< 1321492678 701848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you actually plan to apply them to MetaNodes or something
< 1321492682 729670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: BRAINS...
< 1321492729 414057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as i said, i really wanted it to be t, similar to in your Neighbors* types
< 1321492746 317481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321492747 633646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and yes, the idea was to just be able to put in any of those
< 1321492827 657910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: otoh it fails slightly because you have "p (To NW)" and you apply dirVal to it but dirVal is expecting "p NW"...
< 1321492842 649854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321492870 769782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's easy enough to make a proxy out of it though
< 1321492882 713141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a (b c) -> Proxy c :p
< 1321492887 472325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.  whatever you think easiest.
< 1321492888 777971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use scoped type variables
< 1321492910 396872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, scoped type variables are tricky with gadts
< 1321492920 418985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed to me
< 1321492939 955889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't capture those that appear from pattern matching
< 1321492945 802060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er I meant
< 1321492948 556257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (DirectionType dir) => ExitType (To dir) where
< 1321492948 686744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  exitVal = To $ directionVal (Proxy :: Proxy dir)
< 1321492953 675613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not replacing the whole mechanism with them
< 1321492963 65747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321492968 652766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it avoids a silly "a (b c) -> Proxy c" function to make the types work out
< 1321493109 351630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to write "ascend :: MetaContext -> MetaContext"...
< 1321493129 238445 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321493187 380862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find out how that changes the structure, it is necessary to know how many of the neighbors of the source and destination node lead to other real cursors
< 1321493223 585671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh.
< 1321493244 180894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw, I'm not sure a class actually /is/ needed, because everything ends up containing Neighbours, and you can pattern-match on those to determine which direction is being used >:)
< 1321493259 474837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: /me adds class contexts to everything
< 1321493268 796301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not leafs, i thought...
< 1321493274 602768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well probably not :P
< 1321493359 503399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you are leaving a node with > 2 such neighbors, it gets turned into a MetaNode, while if it has 1, it gets merged into that one's MetaPath, while if it has 0, it and its neighbors get turned into a PlainCursor.
< 1321493372 795799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, * >= 2
< 1321493393 848240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, excluding neighbors in the direction you are going, of course
< 1321493483 24870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and of course if there is another real cursor on the node _itself_, it always becomes a MetaNode.
< 1321493505 603396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is getting very suspicious of these very-similar data types that seem to give rise to a bunch of special cases.
< 1321493518 191923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321493556 551633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a MetaNode either contains a real cursor or is sort of a crossing whose signPost tells you how to get to other real cursors
< 1321493625 45756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am also kind of suspicious of how the "zipper of tree of zippers" thing is sort of tied to the zippers themselves
< 1321493636 793213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1321493654 663141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems like you should be able to do that completely separately from the zipper operations themselves.
< 1321493718 375546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, I think SignPost is broken. there's nowhere to stash the IpData when switching cursor
< 1321493751 562506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it Either IpData Exit?
< 1321493766 968665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but presumably you have to change it to the relevant Exit when switching cursors...
< 1321493773 632643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you use the SignPost to figure out whether you're at a given cursor or not
< 1321493776 287282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not, how to get to it
< 1321493852 344697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when you leave a node carrying a cursor, you change that node's signPost from containing the ipData to containing the exit, of course; at the same time you change the node you're going to to contain the ipData
< 1321493875 361238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321493880 625424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense :P
< 1321493937 156577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be that the entire SignPost gets moved to the new node, if the old one is packed into a MetaPath while the new one became unpacked from one
< 1321493948 124272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the leaf data should contain the IpId
< 1321494019 14901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i guess cursors that aren't in the move will always be on leaves
< 1321494021 492325 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321494044 328348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well otherwise I have to scan the entire signpost just to find the value that's Left
< 1321494073 129454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, you just lookup your current ip, surely
< 1321494092 424640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be more than one ip at the same spot, too
< 1321494096 718503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how
< 1321494099 233475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more than one Left
< 1321494101 119922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  LeafCtx :: (Direction dir)
< 1321494101 253021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          => LeafData
< 1321494101 298599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          -> MetaCursor (From dir)
< 1321494101 298758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          -> SignPost
< 1321494101 298860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :          -> MetaContext
< 1321494134 270596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SignPost can contain more than one ip key whose value is Left ...
< 1321494136 504169 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-138.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321494146 844111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :corresponding to two ips in the same cell
< 1321494150 941317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, okay. I was going by  well when you leave a node carrying a cursor, you change that node's signPost from containing the ipData to containing the exit, of course; at the same time you change the node you're going to to contain the ipData
< 1321494171 912254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only for the ip key you are actually _moving_
< 1321494204 765440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/cursor
< 1321494233 91569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right. and how am i suppose to determine which one that is?
< 1321494248 293716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, i forgot about that...
< 1321494253 11813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321494258 709031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should take the ip as an argument to ascend
< 1321494268 626357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321494388 566108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION idly wonders about a data structure that acts as a set of bytestrings; given a hash of one of the bytestrings, you can get the bytestring out, and given a hash that matches none of the bytestrings in the set, you can determine that it isn't present; but (a) it is unfeasible (brute-forcey) to get a valid hash out of the data without knowing one, and (b) it is unfeasible to access any bytestring without knowing its hash
< 1321494407 25821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking you could encrypt each bytestring with its hash as the key, but you need a way to go from the hash to that data, and that ends up storing the hash itself...
< 1321494421 969046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh: you could implement it as a lookup table from a hash of the hash to the bytestring encrypted with the hash
< 1321494431 127454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then doing (a) or (b) requires reversing the hash function
< 1321494489 974855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure this must have been investigated
< 1321494513 98083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but i have no idea what i would google for
< 1321494559 884292 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8931F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321494572 512601 :CakeProphet!~eris@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321494572 558019 :CakeProphet!~eris@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321494572 558155 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321494578 28038 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi.
< 1321494600 330236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so when I convert the integer 5 to a float via c-style casting in C++
< 1321494608 20831 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 5.0 correct?
< 1321494614 118172 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it something weird?
< 1321494620 79390 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm, all the difficulty in implementing that is in implementing one-point sets, i think
< 1321494627 722343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just make a list of them
< 1321494638 698843 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :luke-sr
< 1321494653 757773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't consider iterating through all too expensive
< 1321494654 994511 :luke-sr!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321494740 711166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that is indeed too expensive.
< 1321494749 415899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes
< 1321494766 123744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm of course you could simply use the hash to look the right one up in a hashtable
< 1321494801 930804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm i didn't read (a) properly
< 1321494814 144988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could do that and not store the keys
< 1321494825 842238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's O(n) in how many hashtable collisions there are to look up
< 1321494834 216308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321494838 657147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that works
< 1321494839 128290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wouldn't (a) make it impossible to _construct_ your data structure?
< 1321494852 507714 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah okay, see I thought differing representations of would mess things up, but... I guess not?
< 1321494853 949492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the data you want to put in it
< 1321494862 540884 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of floats and ints
< 1321494872 410922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, with my proposed solution: table[hash(hash(data))] = encrypt(data, key=hash(data))
< 1321494952 211239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it that c-style case in C++ does nice automatic conversion, with reinterpret_cast being an actual C-like cast?
< 1321494956 670127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I am C nub.
< 1321494962 826089 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/case/cst/
< 1321494965 744692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wehriuheriuhwUEHR UW EHRU HWUEIRH YU23H  78H
< 1321495062 263880 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321495078 257688 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321495122 258737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's times like this that I wish my data structures course was in Haskell. :P
< 1321495173 621231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5 `div` 2
< 1321495174 709937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2
< 1321495176 474306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5 / 2
< 1321495177 315828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.5
< 1321495282 892975 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey I'm making a hash table too!!! :D :D :D :#
< 1321495292 396796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does that not work?
< 1321495306 464873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ($!!)
< 1321495306 833584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.DeepSeq ($!!) :: NFData a => (a -> b) -> a -> b
< 1321495314 931139 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321495344 325310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, i don't trust myself to judge that
< 1321495360 141177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh
< 1321495376 907808 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Would you learn purely functional queues, or do structures that could only be used in ST?
< 1321495392 429531 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: good question. depends on the structure.
< 1321495404 834808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash table would be IO/ST, trees would be pure.
< 1321495438 588131 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you could cram Haskell + data structures into one course though. not effectively anyway
< 1321495450 681643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want an intro Haskell course followed by a data structures course.
< 1321495556 541339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all trees would be pure I guess. but then... hmmm
< 1321495620 266722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well really the data structures you'd want to use in Haskell are not the ones you'd want to use in C++, I think.
< 1321495633 490476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do tree rotations in pure Haskell efficiently?
< 1321495927 377928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(log n)
< 1321495974 327967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insert/delete and rebalance
< 1321496323 598613 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whose Line is it Anyway season 1 report: Absolute winner is Wayne Brady with an impressive 3,005,530.5 points. Absolute average episode winner is also Wayne with 187,845.7 points per episode. Logarithmic winner is Colin Mochrie with 130.4. Logarithmic average episode winner for performers appearing in >1 episode is also Colin with a commanding 6.5 log-points per episode.
< 1321496359 391143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but what about the sinusoidal winner
< 1321496458 506854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah okay.
< 1321496615 793594 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ryan Stiles was the declared winner in 12 episodes, with Colin coming in second at 9 episodes.
< 1321496680 654445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ....WHY
< 1321496682 708335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP
< 1321496691 160620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: go obsess about something else.
< 1321496703 656222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats CakeProphet -----###
< 1321496716 38424 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are better things to invest time into
< 1321496727 66082 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: My JIT works on nine platforms!
< 1321496738 429396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: uh, okay?
< 1321496750 341566 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT COULD WORK ON ALL THE PLATFORMS
< 1321496764 85673 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I taught my dog to teach my cat to behave!
< 1321496768 965702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shachaf: Sometimes things are complicated because the domain is complicated. Other times things are complicated because edwardk."
< 1321496780 960550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(new Haskell Weekly News)
< 1321496781 959079 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321496785 458444 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321496833 661679 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I got quoted twice.
< 1321496867 803674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaaaaaa
< 1321496868 680480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is your quote so serious.
< 1321496886 738369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have half a mind to `delquote it
< 1321496895 83853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for my data structures project I have to provide pseudocode algorithms in my documentation for any function that's more than 15 lines.
< 1321496904 595372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of my functions are more than 15 lines. bahahahahahaha
< 1321496926 602727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: EXCELLENT
< 1321496937 812164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sory
< 1321496966 890948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine any of these functions being more than 15 lines
< 1321496974 746040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're just bad at programming or bad at abstraction.
< 1321497026 461658 :yours_truly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321497067 20307 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321497150 679202 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote shachaf
< 1321497153 243978 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :620)  elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses.   The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 666)  Real Tar is GNU tar.   You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 704)  VMS Mosaic?   I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.   Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1321497166 447429 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those quotes are all horrible.
< 1321497187 616219 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes.
< 1321497189 167427 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote kmc
< 1321497190 150594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-style cast, dynamic cast, static cast, reinterpret cast, const_cast.
< 1321497191 527535 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :686)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks
< 1321497201 328034 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in theory.
< 1321497250 32640 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see, C just does automatic conversion of number types.
< 1321497268 889750 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes.   `quote kmc   686)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks   Well, in theory.
< 1321497270 910706 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :720)  You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes.   `quote kmc   686)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks   Well, in theory.
< 1321497273 605983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a runtime NOP
< 1321497276 410825 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, you have good quotes :P
< 1321497305 33169 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321497424 663601 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is with Haskell and people named Elliott?
< 1321497428 359941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we have had kmc in this channel, he refuses to entertain us though
< 1321497447 25894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: what
< 1321497468 94185 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's you, Conal, Some dude named Trevor, some guy I met IRL
< 1321497469 404605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Elliott is the name of elitist jerks who like elitist jerk languages. hurr hurr hurr
< 1321497476 369031 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sgeo|web is trying to say "What is it with elliott?" in a polite way.
< 1321497495 818242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: there's also elliottcable!
< 1321497500 730391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who i doubt actually knows any haskell.
< 1321497510 180129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is in #haskell occasionally and ragequits whenever people start pinging me
< 1321497525 235862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Elliott Smith who is actally not a programmer and is dead.
< 1321497531 616073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hm that 720 quote has some parsing ambiguity due to the recursion
< 1321497539 390815 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right now neither you nor he are in #haskell.
< 1321497541 487010 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321497551 463014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Haskell
< 1321497576 450045 :Haskell!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guys.
< 1321497581 430483 :Haskell!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this nick was registered in 2008 apparently.
< 1321497595 713089 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's last name is probably Elliott
< 1321497600 850935 :Haskell!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go to #freenode and get it.
< 1321497619 351637 :Haskell!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Kallisti
< 1321497666 427749 :Haskell!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's a name I like and stuff.
< 1321497725 151094 :Haskell!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet
< 1321497744 698057 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only be Haskell for so long. The awesome blows my mind.
< 1321497840 953739 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is doubling a hash table a reasonable resize function? I'm gonna go with "sure"
< 1321497873 800064 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Better to enlarge it by one byte.
< 1321497880 490968 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More space-efficient that way.
< 1321497898 575694 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed.
< 1321497902 868847 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good call.
< 1321497938 351786 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually worried more about time than space.
< 1321497941 120035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that.
< 1321497955 526336 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321497966 906987 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: hm that 720 quote has some parsing ambiguity due to the recursion // 'struth
< 1321497991 681724 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1
< 1321497993 961427 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1)  I used computational linguistics to kill her.
< 1321498015 432985 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 2
< 1321498017 717872 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2)  EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
< 1321498036 361782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh heh heh
< 1321498066 144404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly I'm not sure why you would expect great works of comedic genius from an #esoteric quote db
< 1321498164 850477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how could you _not_?
< 1321498202 937132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha.
< 1321498363 936861 :yours_truly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info NICK :Nisstyre
< 1321498394 505490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> intercalate(".")$fix((" ha":).scanl(++)(" ha"))
< 1321498396 285590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  " ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha h...
< 1321498417 337105 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Fibonacci laugh.
< 1321498433 743673 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only expressed for the most Fibonacci humorous things.
< 1321498475 870777 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also how does that even work.
< 1321498601 747620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix((1:).scanl(+)1)
< 1321498603 495609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1...
< 1321498610 140726 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl (++) (" ha") "lo"
< 1321498611 71753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
< 1321498611 251399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred ty...
< 1321498622 574974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just modified that one in the obvious way
< 1321498634 4794 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I forget what scan does.
< 1321498645 754557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl (++) (" ha") ["lo"]
< 1321498647 433861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [" ha"," halo"]
< 1321498659 712986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl(+)[1..]
< 1321498660 670444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([[t]] -> [[t]])
< 1321498660 881052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a ...
< 1321498662 666541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321498666 58953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl(+)0[1..]
< 1321498666 895887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,...
< 1321498726 810407 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321498735 220507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual laziness black magic.
< 1321498754 673145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl(f)x[1..]::Expr
< 1321498755 630000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr'
< 1321498755 741682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred ...
< 1321498758 274553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321498766 360978 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I got sccanl
< 1321498768 435157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c
< 1321498776 891774 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl
< 1321498778 136264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a]
< 1321498806 48367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl is like foldl, but lists all the intermediate results
< 1321498833 940086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl(f)x[1..]::[Expr]
< 1321498834 967090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [x,f x 1,f (f x 1) 2,f (f (f x 1) 2) 3,f (f (f (f x 1) 2) 3) 4,f (f (f (f (...
< 1321498865 245321 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr(f)x[1..]
< 1321498866 226001 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [f 1 (f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 (f 6 (f 7 (f 8 (f 9 (f 10 (f 11 (f 12 (f 13 (f 14 ...
< 1321498885 653784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanr gets no love.
< 1321498912 656160 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr(f)x[1..5]
< 1321498913 625308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [f 1 (f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 x)))),f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 x))),f 3 (f 4 (f 5 x)),f ...
< 1321498916 500535 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr(f)x[1..3]
< 1321498917 554901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [f 1 (f 2 (f 3 x)),f 2 (f 3 x),f 3 x,x]
< 1321498953 720598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl adds calls, scanr removes calls.
< 1321498963 522937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/calls/applications/
< 1321498987 862272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src scanr
< 1321498988 180868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanr _ q0 []     =  [q0]
< 1321498988 484663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanr f q0 (x:xs) =  f x q : qs
< 1321498988 529955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    where qs@(q:_) = scanr f q0 xs
< 1321499010 891435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src scanl
< 1321499011 293550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of
< 1321499011 591046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    []   -> []
< 1321499011 636230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs
< 1321499035 686870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdly different in style.
< 1321499055 496165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: only for laziness
< 1321499059 71964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scan f x undefined
< 1321499060 191597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `scan'
< 1321499063 569809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well scanl can give the first element without any recursion
< 1321499065 95839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl f x undefined
< 1321499066 305488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [x*Exception: Prelude.undefined
< 1321499162 928401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse (scanl (+) 1 [1..5]) == scanr (+) 1 [1..5]
< 1321499163 822218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321499173 899422 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321499176 978120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initial value.
< 1321499189 868357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse (scanl1 (+) [1..5]) == scanr1 (+) [1..5]
< 1321499190 770333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321499194 54676 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1321499200 231221 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321499217 612382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse (scanl1 (+) [1..5]) == scanr1 (+) (reverse [1..5])
< 1321499218 671200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321499322 769172 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321499967 410872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Dannevirke_welcome_sign.jpg
< 1321499970 951814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this what you look like?
< 1321500034 87802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my double-hashing solution is so ugly :(
< 1321500041 403237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not, vikings didn't have horns on their helmets!
< 1321500045 44580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: double-hasing is gross.
< 1321500064 184724 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SIMPLY USE SOME FORM OF NON-LINEAR PROBING.
< 1321500073 560227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm clean shaven.
< 1321500077 641319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i don't think you know what i'm talking about
< 1321500083 471923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, you look like dijkstra
< 1321500094 134004 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: double hashing as in... double hasing as in... hash tables. right?
< 1321500099 117479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else could you be talking about?
< 1321500160 777172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :In een alternatief universum, Ørjan lijkt Dijkstra.
< 1321500188 541990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork bork bork
< 1321500213 330414 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ørjan
< 1321500216 489241 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I want to be called that
< 1321500221 608875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch the lijkt isn't quite correct
< 1321500264 185647 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'm famous.
< 1321500270 277982 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321500271 613067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore my name is awesome. (?)
< 1321500283 617072 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous for prophesizing cakes?
< 1321500292 683168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis
< 1321500294 678921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm this guy.
< 1321500308 490050 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, excellent
< 1321500314 927500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to think CakeProphet really is Adam Curtis.
< 1321500327 660542 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're in luck because I am.
< 1321500334 777003 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of fucking brits in here
< 1321500341 442309 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am too)
< 1321500342 932784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is American.
< 1321500351 120662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it says you're from the UK right on your wikipedia page.
< 1321500355 811379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit foolin' around.
< 1321500356 404178 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should correct your wikipedia page
< 1321500359 970735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym hexhamers
< 1321500368 813429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [citation needed]
< 1321500368 883423 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321500377 829778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you're not from hexham are you
< 1321500381 908619 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321500391 469929 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm from london!
< 1321500396 745716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw here's what pseqs look like now: http://hpaste.org/54147
< 1321500426 151619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so am I like the Michael Moore of the UK?
< 1321500438 402480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like... not quite as controversial?
< 1321500462 628678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the UK, as a country, could actually support a figure describable as "the michael moore of the uk".
< 1321500469 362761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's even mathematically possible
< 1321500498 399857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, give me an analogy
< 1321500538 140496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i can analogise to a world so alien ;D
< 1321500539 132413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i can analogise to a world so alien ;D
< 1321500540 683758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321500557 490919 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I find it difficult to wrap my head around the UK.
< 1321500563 222521 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because it's a large mass of land.
< 1321500575 173732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adam Curtis seems more respectable perhaps?
< 1321500578 276615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or respected
< 1321500785 613191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suggested a parallel between the rise of Islamism in the Arab world and Neoconservatism in the United States in that both needed to inflate a myth of a dangerous enemy in order to draw people to support them."
< 1321500789 476888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee hee
< 1321500803 676427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the description for The Power of Nightmares)
< 1321500808 355317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on Wikipedia)
< 1321500837 831308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_so_ easy to godwin that
< 1321500942 238188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently he is the /only/ famous Adam Curtis.
< 1321500973 502744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: s/he is/I am/
< 1321500992 220132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I'm not actually Adam Curtis.
< 1321500995 169195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am Adam Curtis.
< 1321501000 453129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sorry to disappoint you.
< 1321501009 502244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong
< 1321501018 577395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely wrong
< 1321501024 187761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're actually gleeful
< 1321501138 200778 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I occasionally get weird reactions to my name.
< 1321501153 386043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because it's the same as some kind of famous guy in the UK (no one in the US knows who that guy is)
< 1321501162 986857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because it's apparently two first names or something.
< 1321501255 709451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt adam curtis is that well known in the UK either :P
< 1321501313 857025 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh I recall from a previous conversation you saying that he was kind of well-known by people that know things.
< 1321501327 746686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar
< 1321501344 944191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess among people who know things about documentaries?
< 1321501376 480468 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know things about documentaries?
< 1321501449 595758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well this is good. this means I can go to the UK.
< 1321501488 229416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my name were, say, Tony Blair I'd be more reluctant to go to the UK.
< 1321501808 748426 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so let me get this straight
< 1321501816 992707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more than two major parties in the UK?
< 1321501821 420579 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than "WTF how do you *say* that" as a reaction.
< 1321501821 571612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mind blown.
< 1321501833 11851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: three.
< 1321501839 411562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is smaller than the other two.
< 1321501839 569160 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1321501856 405151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will probably never get elected again after this government
< 1321501862 773763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's almost like you can track the path I took on Wikipedia!
< 1321501890 521999 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait you mean Conservative Party? I thought it was like... "the big one"
< 1321501893 589320 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, how many Americans do you expect to say "Worcester" even vaguely reasonable?
< 1321501910 388037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reasonably, even.
< 1321501987 494751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, i mean the lib dems
< 1321501998 344034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current government is a coalition between the conservative party and the liberal democrats
< 1321502018 496650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321502036 315572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it kind of crazy that the Labour party is socialist
< 1321502037 493651 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1321502039 699083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :socialist in name.
< 1321502054 196030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in the US, socialist is like a synonym for "bad".
< 1321502056 360228 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because you're used to American politics, where "socialist" is a curse word.
< 1321502082 937396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's really not.
< 1321502088 281911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not New Labour
< 1321502123 366610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321502131 973567 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka Tony Blair?
< 1321502138 701913 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should weird you out is the BNP.
< 1321502139 846321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: basically they were useless for a few decades and then Tony Blair came along and they started calling themselves New Labour and became centre-right and got elected.
< 1321502144 637919 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "National Socialists".
< 1321502153 470859 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whut?
< 1321502156 327108 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird as fuck.
< 1321502170 134912 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think I've heard of those guys
< 1321502175 484601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what, a political party getting popular and becoming crappier?
< 1321502176 59736 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Something rather similar happened to the Republican party, actually.
< 1321502178 578613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCKING!!!!
< 1321502184 92909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey guys let's be conservative now!"
< 1321502198 381598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no it's more like "let's look more like the conservatives because they keep winning" :P
< 1321502204 604718 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well.. was the republican party ever "socialist"?
< 1321502220 300323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: reminder that lincoln was a republican
< 1321502229 487073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes I know all that.
< 1321502234 401519 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not much *socialist*, but certainly very liberal on certain issues.
< 1321502237 40536 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: In Canada, our opposition party is socialist
< 1321502243 783711 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in their constitution, even
< 1321502256 390659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the usa has ever experienced any kind of popularity for socialism
< 1321502260 597333 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.
< 1321502268 830341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too capitalist pigdog.
< 1321502269 693811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much baggage
< 1321502287 589001 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much captialsit gipgod
< 1321502294 124450 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first sentence of their constitution, even
< 1321502308 805234 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit were we all surprised last election
< 1321502327 960759 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It did once. We called it the "New Deal".
< 1321502333 844954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "WHEREAS the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have expressed their Desire to be federally united into One Dominion under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with a Constitution similar in Principle to that of the United Kingdom:"?
< 1321502353 26521 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he means the party's constitution.
< 1321502357 57750 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the party's
< 1321502363 432057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i dislike fdr but completely forget why
< 1321502365 223735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh :P
< 1321502372 551933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes more sense
< 1321502373 960461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to like
< 1321502381 32294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREAS we want a socialist opposition party
< 1321502387 556954 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably the only notable action of his that's dislikable: Japanese internment camps.
< 1321502388 161075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WHEREAS god help us if they get into government
< 1321502390 953049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
< 1321502402 466639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he kind of started easing himself into a position of supreme authority.
< 1321502406 524551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tried to.
< 1321502479 834899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the Advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, to declare by Proclamation that, on and after the passing of this Act, the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick shall form and be One Dominion under the Name of Canada; and on and after that Day those Three Provinces shall form and be One Dominion under that Name accordingly.(4)
< 1321502489 564661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: possible scam: check whether the queen actually declared that
< 1321502519 518027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. Unless it is otherwise expressed or implied, the Name Canada shall be taken to mean Canada as constituted under this Act.(5)
< 1321502519 706201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, they preempted us making a nomic called canada and using the cosntitution's references to "canada" to take over! smart
< 1321502552 964978 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think the US constitution does anything like that.
< 1321502562 78628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should devise a coup
< 1321502563 421230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah but you guys don't follow yours
< 1321502578 453330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if that's the one goedel found
< 1321502580 121587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha
< 1321502586 570762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because it's true. also sad. :(
< 1321502594 189769 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
< 1321502604 470070 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The issue is, Canada doesn't have a *single* constitution.
< 1321502609 334763 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's like three Constitution Acts.
< 1321502612 47232 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes let's laugh, and then cry.
< 1321502612 607606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, suber reckons it was the constitution's self-amendment clause itself
< 1321502621 543357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hope goedel would be smarter than that
< 1321502623 51993 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 2.
< 1321502637 136167 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about Goedel?
< 1321502644 807457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: saw a reference to this which is sort of the list version of PSeq: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/thrist/0.2/doc/html/Data-Thrist.html
< 1321502653 984292 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
< 1321502654 915758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem with the constitution is that it's too liberal for neoconservatives.
< 1321502660 448040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm i think i've seen this
< 1321502669 499252 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've told you about the supreme court act, right?
< 1321502669 800882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the list version is easy ofc, it's doing it with a finger tree that's hard
< 1321502677 178557 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The problem with everything but a king by divine right is that it's too liberal for neoconservatives.
< 1321502682 643793 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Don't *think* so.
< 1321502683 94171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need /warrants/ to search and seize property? I mean come on.
< 1321502715 377527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://opendylan.org/~gabor/Thrist-draft-2008-07-18.pdf sigh, not found
< 1321502718 48478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TERRORISTS ARE PLOTTING OUR END THIS VERY MINUTE.
< 1321502720 180979 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You need a /majority/ to pass a law? Come on.
< 1321502735 945398 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So the constitution is defined by the Constitution Act, 1982, non-exclusively. It says "The following are part of the constitution" but it isn't exhaustive. The Constitution also says that the Constitution can only be amended with regards to the composition of the Supreme Court by unanimous consent of the provinces
< 1321502757 35170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/thrist/0.2/doc/html/Data-Thrist-Monad.html
< 1321502758 237106 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :accordingly, no one knows if the Supreme Court Act is in the constitution or not, and so no one knows if it can be amended by Parliament or only by unanimous consent
< 1321502769 25172 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *Ouch*.
< 1321502776 251481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i suspect that's similar to the relation of arrows and monads...
< 1321502798 609074 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the nonexhaustiveness is sometimes useful
< 1321502814 754025 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, parliamentary privilege is taken to be a constitutional power, even though it's not written out in any statute
< 1321502830 811848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha! they did thrist zippers.
< 1321502832 209226 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with independence of the three branches
< 1321502834 170272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does the UK have a supreme court thing? erase my ignorance.
< 1321502842 404035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: all our judging is done by a rabbit
< 1321502849 541644 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.
< 1321502852 625737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all makes sense now.
< 1321502856 886883 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: As of a couple years ago, they have a Supreme Court.
< 1321502858 727880 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It does now.
< 1321502867 59600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prior to that, they had the House of Lords.
< 1321502868 93520 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :appointed?
< 1321502871 363722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like...
< 1321502875 359125 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a while it wasn't the entire House
< 1321502878 375610 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a committee
< 1321502879 477547 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thrist?
< 1321502884 494053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tony Blair or whoever appointed all the judges at once? nice move.
< 1321502890 116484 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321502890 814306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321502891 319723 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically it *was*, but most of the house just didn't care. :P
< 1321502927 221438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, these things subsume vectors, I think
< 1321502930 6475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as in, fixed-length
< 1321502943 582126 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually FDRs "court-packing" bill would not have been a bad idea.
< 1321502955 510141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data Vec a n n' where Elem :: a -> Foo a n (Succ n)
< 1321502961 942161 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Supreme_Court#Appointments_process
< 1321502966 632281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then PSeq (Vec a) Z len
< 1321503006 218082 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: blah blah blah bureaucracy
< 1321503058 840475 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It seems that they seeded it with a selection of Law Lords from the House of Lords.
< 1321503115 393760 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: damn, you're right
< 1321503140 517769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm this guy's blog makes the interesting point that they could be interesting to build applicative structurse and the like out of, because you can pull them apart as well as run them
< 1321503146 252299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might make for an interesting esolang, especially the Seq version
< 1321503276 282484 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's kind of weird that presidents are restricted to two terms now.
< 1321503300 211426 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame FDR. :P
< 1321503303 706656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the rationale but I'm not really sure it makes any sense at all.
< 1321503320 657525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: blame the congress under FDR, more like.
< 1321503348 639237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's less ridiculous than the russian mess
< 1321503349 52212 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, personally I think it's weird that *only* presidents are restricted to two terms.
< 1321503364 747361 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 *consecutive* terms. *groan*
< 1321503376 694656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live the Bush Dynasty.
< 1321503385 825863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hm the thrist blog also points out that Show for these things is hard
< 1321503386 99762 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why is consecutive so weird?
< 1321503397 809221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because consider (5,id) <| (id, 42) <| empty
< 1321503404 314157 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also wasn't the point to avoid the president dying while in office thanks to constant reelection
< 1321503405 281122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :: PSeq (,) Int Int
< 1321503417 82677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't have forall a b. Show (a,b) obviously, you need a Show constraint on a and b
< 1321503423 491402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: okay so I think term restrictions for congress makes sense, but not for the president? does that make sense?
< 1321503426 386158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with that, you can't do it because of the above
< 1321503443 414562 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not really.
< 1321503450 107465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you need a pair that bundles the Show constraints basically :(
< 1321503468 987460 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmmm, perhaps it doesn't.
< 1321503469 552783 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: consecutive?
< 1321503487 913129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Obama, Obama, Bachman, Obama.
< 1321503490 634716 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Actually, the point of a two term limit was that it was tradition, so might as well make it binding after FDR had the audacity to violate it.
< 1321503502 758276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah.  btw i think the MetaPath has a similar need for the Exit class
< 1321503511 853218 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Um, I'm pretty sure that's not possible
< 1321503515 107079 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/audacity/popularity/
< 1321503517 480320 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Is in Russia!
< 1321503517 653214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i just added it to all the types
< 1321503522 42521 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also true.
< 1321503580 123730 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: how is that not possible if the only restriction is a maximum of two consecutive terms?
< 1321503593 715354 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third is not consecutive.
< 1321503612 899776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just hasn't happened.
< 1321503613 80530 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the restriction doesn't in fact say consecutive, as far as I'm aware?
< 1321503624 985632 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: *It is in Russia*.
< 1321503625 929445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes it does.
< 1321503637 540541 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmmm
< 1321503641 774658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The restriction in the US is two terms total.
< 1321503647 660129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I think it was consecutive? :P
< 1321503659 391451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: surely after Bachmann there won't be enough left of the USA to get another president.
< 1321503661 393578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i suppose I could just use http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/prelude-extras/0.1.0.2/doc/html/Text-Show-Extras.html#t:Show2
< 1321503664 874847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-n
< 1321503665 642517 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Basically.
< 1321503672 647482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but actually no, Show2 isn't enough
< 1321503678 896172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because of that hidden type problem
< 1321503683 553398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: honestly Bachman is one of the better GOP candidates. sad right?
< 1321503688 123028 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Probably our major territorial claim would be the moon. And that only on arguable technicalities.
< 1321503728 631090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as in "there's a treaty that says there is no claim in space"?
< 1321503745 968755 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but our flags there!!!
< 1321503756 723195 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: As far as the US is concerned, a "treaty" is "just a law"
< 1321503765 667577 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can literally take back treaties.
< 1321503770 234148 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, well... Fuck you all.
< 1321503789 366893 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, I don't understand the rational behind this)
< 1321503795 447577 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, this logic continues to make sense once the US is gone (except for the moon, except the moon isn't US territory by treaty)
< 1321503797 145421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aha!
< 1321503814 894575 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It continues to make sense if *most* of the US is gone.
< 1321503817 851068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thrist (Monad' m) a b is actually (Kleisli m a b)
< 1321503821 517560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say we're left with Puerto Rico.
< 1321503825 547630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so the arrow relation is very strong
< 1321503833 179562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh well, i suppose i vaguely taking back treaties _is_ permitted by international law
< 1321503835 606678 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah yes, our strong military center.
< 1321503838 697105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vaguely recall
< 1321503856 822547 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not so much "military center" as it is "likely to be ignored in global thermonuclear war"
< 1321503877 185445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean Thrist (Kleisli m) ?
< 1321503880 511231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This time I shall prove my claim that in Haskell any Control.Arrow instance can be rewritten as a Thrist data structure." heh, neat
< 1321503884 883817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no,
< 1321503885 173585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Monad' :: (* -> *) -> * -> * -> * where
< 1321503885 305819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feed :: Monad m => m b -> Monad' m a b
< 1321503885 351139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digest :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> Monad' m a b
< 1321503928 56481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er, a Thrist cannot be just Kleisli because Thrists can be picked apart again
< 1321503930 260150 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmmm, when can we submit to our robot overlords? I'm getting impatient with these imperfect humans.
< 1321503945 438112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh well I mean, is /run/ as (Kleisli m a b)
< 1321503957 239334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in some sense a thrist seems like inspectable composition
< 1321503964 206139 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: First we need robot overlords.
< 1321503996 971705 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like inspectable functions
< 1321503999 104274 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1321504013 74787 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Ew.
< 1321504020 724126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web would like to break parametricity.
< 1321504044 185600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with it sane typing, security in an object-capability system, ...
< 1321504056 221635 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parametricity?
< 1321504099 397103 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point, I have thought about how one might go about sandboxing Picolisp
< 1321504140 576398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: surely robot overlordship is only NP-hard.
< 1321504247 655830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "So I am not in bad company announcing that I am preparing a paper about thrists which are the moral equivalents of free categories."
< 1321504251 734018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *sigh* nothing new under the sun
< 1321504281 786244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i already vaguely knew about thrists
< 1321504316 985783 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321504317 31003 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321504317 31149 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321504380 557123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finally, the category-theoretic twist: think of the parameter p as the morphisms of a category C (with C's objects being the morphisms' domains and ranges) then Thrist p is essentially the free category of C, often written as C*."
< 1321504383 408719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love that "essentially"
< 1321504418 458276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't i use the same word above for PSeq :P
< 1321504450 49586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so :)
< 1321504767 798505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, in C++
< 1321504782 133720 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: your 27th amendment is hilarious
< 1321504788 62852 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I say "it's okay to change members of this referenced object, but not the entire thing itself"???
< 1321504857 792660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do that? okay.
< 1321504863 892254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask coppro
< 1321504876 165148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lmao at that one
< 1321504944 47505 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant scam there
< 1321505048 687793 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh C++ WHY ARE YOU STUPID.
< 1321505069 904415 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using c=+
< 1321505101 401507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: class
< 1321505104 522883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you know this by now.
< 1321505106 419094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh / haha
< 1321505117 395356 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I have had and will have classes that use c++ too
< 1321505127 267575 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presently the only one involving programming is python / it's just as bad
< 1321505138 876928 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you don't get to laugh about C++ until you program in it.
< 1321505147 227649 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I've programmed in it!
< 1321505170 570177 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, well then you should be crying in sympathy.
< 1321505171 589236 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an x86 compiler in it, albeit a simple compiler for a simple language
< 1321505174 208315 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isntead of laughing.
< 1321505177 132014 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im laughcrye
< 1321505212 769417 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Gaaah.
< 1321505239 813071 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait so string literals are strings now and not chars?
< 1321505243 273489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er char *s
< 1321505252 842841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhweriuhwdihwierhiwuer
< 1321505266 59290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321505273 396120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Neat scam at least.
< 1321505284 166826 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it depend on where you put them
< 1321505292 146162 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to ‘char*’
< 1321505299 253127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no I thought they were always char arrays.
< 1321505321 327110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget how c++ does it
< 1321505432 552198 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: They're const.
< 1321505467 850573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is the good way to care about this?
< 1321505478 623892 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is merely *noisier* about the UB than C in this regard.
< 1321505535 649083 :calamari!~calamari@108.122.127.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321505541 789401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look I think the code they provided us is broken
< 1321505543 318203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine. that.
< 1321505564 32439 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321505651 563648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no it has something to do with assigning a string to another string.
< 1321505774 58009 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321505792 910400 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what might cause assignment of a string to a string reference to segfault?
< 1321505829 257799 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Any number of things, most of which involve someone doing nasty things to the STL class.
< 1321506022 152417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and for my earlier question I believe I want const&
< 1321506026 193192 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of const Type &
< 1321506042 97809 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321506117 307203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well the string /exists/
< 1321506136 820600 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321506145 371837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the string I'm assigning to does not :P
< 1321506153 899592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugger ftw
< 1321506205 31237 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: VAX
< 1321506208 245746 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Booya)
< 1321506208 752544 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: okay so when I say   blah = new Type[size];
< 1321506210 76401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow.
< 1321506212 787691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How?
< 1321506222 24568 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very, very poorly :P
< 1321506222 876185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that doesn't automatically construct a default instance of Type for every element in the array
< 1321506226 835752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321506228 692608 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I may have to remove it if it makes the code too big ...)
< 1321506237 261454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But how did you do it :P
< 1321506249 429803 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually search for the epilogue rather than just assuming it's right before the next function.
< 1321506255 575472 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321506256 309736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321506273 868600 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tested if it breaks everything else yet.
< 1321506275 925873 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also: clang
< 1321506472 26199 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, that *is* the semantics.
< 1321506473 982944 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321506505 173890 :calamari!~calamari@108.122.127.241 QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1321506515 157662 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you mean the construct-each-element thing is the semantics?
< 1321506522 396928 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry it's kind of ambiguous .
< 1321506526 260863 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes.
< 1321506534 715150 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, okay. well now I know shit all about what's wrong.
< 1321506545 369273 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I know the same amount about that, but now have no idea.
< 1321506548 834763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what to do.
< 1321506865 440012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaah.
< 1321506878 274100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a fun bug in their function.
< 1321506885 380873 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they gave us.
< 1321506912 71822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, elliott: I've more-or-less run out of architectures.
< 1321506920 583142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MMIX, still!
< 1321506924 570088 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DAMN IT
< 1321506927 514472 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot :P
< 1321506955 414421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Z80?
< 1321506963 735783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PIC? (<-- JOKE)
< 1321506984 591491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, Z80 is a good 'un.
< 1321506987 800257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PA-RISC, too.
< 1321506990 180834 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 16-bit.
< 1321507006 227592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..................oh
< 1321507009 937993 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like
< 1321507010 492898 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PA-RISC could be doable but I'd need a sim (at this point virtually all RISCs are a shoo-in)
< 1321507018 51035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how hash tables have a size and like
< 1321507022 305134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Z80 has 32-bit addressing, I'm pretty sure.
< 1321507026 43547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hash function can give you indices larger than your table?
< 1321507036 101116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I forgot to mod the index.
< 1321507036 313805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No shit.
< 1321507065 994903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, OK, maybe not, but it's not thaaaat 16-bit.
< 1321507070 597671 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP-11?
< 1321507072 669850 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321507081 428344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SIMH emulates a Z80: "SIMH emulates MITS Altair 8800 computer with Intel 8080, Zilog Z80 or Intel 8086 processors."
< 1321507085 291873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not enough RAM.
< 1321507087 123632 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, it's 16-bit, but it's the PDP.
< 1321507104 689367 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Orly?
< 1321507111 91314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So sayeth Gregor
< 1321507119 733880 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses a 256-bit CPU.
< 1321507124 419041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SuperH?
< 1321507127 726295 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta address that RAM, man.
< 1321507131 259061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: As seen in the Sega Genesis!
< 1321507137 708218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC, 32-bit. Should be trivial.
< 1321507140 50998 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IA64!
< 1321507143 891657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And supports two endiannesses!
< 1321507144 673948 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sim
< 1321507149 703511 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (That doesn't suck foot)
< 1321507159 698482 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably impossible anyways. IA64 makes x86 look normal.
< 1321507166 637777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/220884-superh-emulator.html
< 1321507172 433997 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SuperH is the one also known as sh[34], right?
< 1321507181 735821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, yeah
< 1321507195 253988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omnimaga.org/index.php?topic=8015.0 ;; wow googline superh emulator produces such unreliable sourecs.
< 1321507195 787836 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I had trouble making a working cross-compiler for it.
< 1321507196 772091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sources.
< 1321507202 893035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough
< 1321507203 531773 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: qemu has sh4 :P
< 1321507226 702756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has reached the "Other" section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_instruction_sets :P
< 1321507235 950436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you sure you can't try the 6502?
< 1321507240 334711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You would be a hero.
< 1321507272 935434 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely MMIX.
< 1321507273 4804 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321507283 192763 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite figure out the OS situation of MMIX >_>
< 1321507289 445738 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make a cross compiler with a C library? <_<
< 1321507296 319110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, you WROTE JSMMIX.
< 1321507301 352553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you do to get that running?
< 1321507309 104768 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no const& is not what I want.
< 1321507317 192743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Switched to MIPS.
< 1321507324 748062 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But more to the point, it never had an OS.
< 1321507331 215877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I distinctly recall a bash shell before you switched.
< 1321507337 344798 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, no.
< 1321507342 296771 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not even close to close to that.
< 1321507355 496358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay then.
< 1321507365 834086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oooh...
< 1321507375 234828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Subleq. Before you laugh, there's a sort-of-C->Subleq compiler.
< 1321507404 169821 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sort-of"?
< 1321507406 450456 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicoJava
< 1321507410 266150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Higher_Subleq
< 1321507416 322534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More C than you might expect.
< 1321507422 170944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Just skip straight to the examples)
< 1321507435 193689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: may require a C compiler to be written)
< 1321507477 649428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "The GNU Compiler Collection includes an MMIX back-end for its C/C++ compilers, contributed by Hans-Peter Nilsson and part of the main GCC distribution since late 2001.  As of January 2011, the MMIX back-end to GCC continues to be actively developed and maintained by volunteers.
< 1321507477 822475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installation instructions for GCC + MMIX tools by Hans-Peter Nilsson.
< 1321507477 867822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :§3.17.26.  MMIX Options for GNU GCC version 4.5.2 (GNU GCC Web site).
< 1321507477 867989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :§9.25.  MMIX-dependent Features for GNU as from GNU binutils version 2.21, the assembler back-end for GNU GCC (GNU Binutils Web site).
< 1321507479 150078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above tools could theoretically be used to compile, build, and bootstrap an entire FreeBSD, Linux, or other similar operating system kernel onto MMIX hardware, were such hardware to exist."
< 1321507488 52518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not sure what to do for libc though >_>
< 1321507488 606564 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321507493 827981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha
< 1321507499 277265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: newlib does mmix: http://cygwin.com/ml/newlib/2001/msg00577.html
< 1321507500 147083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of 2011
< 1321507501 972126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321507502 924203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001
< 1321507513 754231 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can I actually see its output X-P
< 1321507525 187723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1321507525 472628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIXware – Donald Knuth’s MMIX-SIM simple (behavioral) simulator, MMIXAL assembler, test suite, sample programs, full documentation, and MMMIX architectural (pipeline) simulator (gzipped tar file).
< 1321507525 608880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIXX – An X11-based graphics package contributed by Andrew Pochinsky of MIT’s Center for Theoretical Physics which, when combined with the MMIXware sources above, augments the MMIX virtual machine with a 640×480 pixel, true-color ‘virtual display’ (for UNIX/Linux).
< 1321507560 829577 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont' mean "can I simulate MMIX"
< 1321507569 911563 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "when I printf, will that go to real stdout"
< 1321507574 804922 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignment operators in C++ are the hugest pain in the ass...
< 1321507577 683482 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib's default "system" is to stub out write.
< 1321507601 215485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough :P
< 1321507610 64045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/mmix-news.html
< 1321507612 64816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Definition of simple I/O, the runtime environment, and the simulator's online/offline iteraction commands (45KB) (final version, 31 August 2011)
< 1321507616 81715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could PROBABLY patch in a write?
< 1321507616 432585 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, to be investigated tomorrow.
< 1321507621 783738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I bet it already has a write().
< 1321507624 783348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one MMIX machine :P
< 1321507627 160365 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1321507633 136858 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, oh well, to be investigated tomorrow.
< 1321507641 657722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The current target date for the ultimate volumes is the year 2020, so there is plenty of time to do the conversion." -- ever the optimist.
< 1321507646 863013 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The silly thing is it's practically guaranteed to work)
< 1321507656 740000 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. One of the IOCCC entries was a Lisp quine.
< 1321507672 311880 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a subset-of-Lisp interpreter in C sufficient to interpret itself.
< 1321507679 561248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Link :P
< 1321507685 346274 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ioccc.org/2005/mikeash/mikeash.c
< 1321507688 531661 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp.
< 1321507777 171753 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to GCC, I have invalidlty used a member.
< 1321507830 898875 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naughty naughty.
< 1321507852 285860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mikeash! I have exchanged approx. ~50 words with that man.
< 1321507907 298778 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately approximately.
< 1321507910 845552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321507928 656046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They were all about Classic Mac OS binutils support, to my knowledge.)
< 1321507995 165659 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/eiji-y/vmmmix/vmmmix.html <-- hey look, somebody ported Linux to MMIX
< 1321508056 793269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limmix.
< 1321508072 274539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You mean almost MMIX :P
< 1321508074 274546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/eiji-y/vmmmix/problem.html
< 1321508080 623940 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'struth
< 1321508240 982148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :print ind
< 1321508241 168551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$4 = -2939
< 1321508243 295241 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh....
< 1321508249 711576 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321508431 280598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess: the hash function they gave us can produce negative values.  ???????
< 1321508466 115654 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something wrong with negative values for hashes?
< 1321508474 348744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh...
< 1321508479 241946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hash table /indices/, yes.
< 1321508479 729227 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashes are just piles of bits
< 1321508491 729617 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: then just interpret them as unsigned numbers?
< 1321508500 743017 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Racist! Hashes are Unicode code points!
< 1321508633 498418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :print key.data()
< 1321508633 700475 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$9 = 0x612288 "abbreviate"
< 1321508639 955152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :print location(key)
< 1321508640 136306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$10 = -615167939
< 1321508642 298018 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice. overflow.
< 1321508660 60858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD JOB /PROFESSORS OF COMPUTER SCIENCE/
< 1321508704 921272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/int/unsigned int/
< 1321508952 360795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3000 `mod` 3000
< 1321508953 264579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  0
< 1321509007 89895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just making sure I'm sane.
< 1321510446 940117 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `div` 0
< 1321510447 868807 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: divide by zero
< 1321510467 288736 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0]
< 1321510468 216670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  5
< 1321511237 259609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :# time gcc -O3 full.c
< 1321511237 384874 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc: Internal error: Illegal instruction (program cc1)
< 1321511253 503202 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Epdeet
< 1321511335 866399 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :     1145.44 real      1102.56 user        31.51 sys
< 1321511532 212478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321511972 868550 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321512123 205271 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321512145 458014 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-61.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321512417 286898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The total amount spent on NASA is $471 billion.
< 1321512450 586158 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, DOD gets $685 billion a year.
< 1321512454 530937 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma be depressed now.
< 1321512519 720330 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about money, it's about taking things that people know about and cutting them so people know we're serious about saving money
< 1321512522 520524 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the presidential limo
< 1321512552 230890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presidential mini
< 1321512583 862108 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: And not actually being serious, of course.
< 1321512606 497098 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we *were* the military could reasonably get cut way the heck down.
< 1321512617 191257 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321512627 583576 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, y'know, not being half of military spending internationally.
< 1321514765 846488 :CakeProphet!~eris@h34.59.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321514765 891843 :CakeProphet!~eris@h34.59.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321514765 891980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321514811 132757 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as consolation for the scandinavians
< 1321514853 794225 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got roughly 1/3rd less fuel efficiency on this tank of gas than my previous.
< 1321514871 768730 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All because of your maniac speed?
< 1321514873 991202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof that traveling quickly expends more energy than traveling slowly.
< 1321514883 994453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat that it has that dramatic of an effect.
< 1321514894 462862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well I've been driving faster in general.
< 1321514930 935579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that calculation is just an estimate based on my current miles on this tank vs. fuel gauge position
< 1321514936 963074 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I fill up tomorrow I can get an exact number.
< 1321514937 8417 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also makes sense; the air resistance goes up, what, quadratically based on current speed?
< 1321514947 491031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue :P
< 1321515138 311546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh wait yes I do
< 1321515147 208034 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it also depends on surface area for drag.
< 1321515214 617372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it depends heavily on a mystical dimensionless ratio called the drag coefficient
< 1321515221 234232 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm sure involves surface area somehow.
< 1321515247 454189 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no surface area is part of the actual drag equation along with the coefficient I think.
< 1321515258 134399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it's v^2
< 1321515365 324294 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the drag coefficient for my Honda Accord is pretty significant.
< 1321515385 948826 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do that golfball trick the MythBusters tried out to it.
< 1321515415 685070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that?
< 1321515426 902583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/10/mythbustersdimple_opt.jpg -- it's not just a drag-reducing method, it's also a fashion statement.
< 1321515469 349531 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm drag coefficient for a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe is 0.32
< 1321515482 972693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that's similar to a 1998 Hinda Accord Coupe even though the body style is slightly different
< 1321515495 209090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ha.
< 1321515498 407325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful.
< 1321515563 940747 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The show's team completely covered a last-gen Ford Taurus with modelers clay and figured out that it would achieve about 26 mpg at a constant 65 mph. They then went about adding over 1,000 dimples to the car's exterior. To keep the experiment consistent, all 1,082 dimples removed from the clay exterior were put in a box and set in the back seat so that the car would weigh exactly the same as before dimpling. The theory is that, like a golf ball, the dimples wo
< 1321515564 127795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uld reduce the car's drag through the air, thus allowing it to travel the same distance at the same speed using less fuel. The result? Over 29 mpg."
< 1321515590 442120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321515596 203492 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite recall what the original mpg figure for the car was before they covered it with that much clay though.
< 1321515598 969108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gosh there is a picture
< 1321515601 153100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a beautiful picture
< 1321515606 425220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did you see the computer fans with those dimples
< 1321515607 849666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so ugly
< 1321515623 455963 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnno, I didn't.
< 1321515625 842701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/sharkoon-gg.jpg
< 1321515628 160555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold
< 1321515655 739456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sharkoon.com/sites/default/files/products/tl6s08_0.jpg
< 1321515658 94779 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it has a skin condition.
< 1321515661 891879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bhehold even moreso
< 1321515675 547682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sharkoon.com/sites/default/files/products/big_sharkoon_silent_eagle_2.jpg dmiples
< 1321515692 695824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow, they got that much fuel efficiency from a Ford? I'm impressed.
< 1321515695 795177 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmiples
< 1321515703 900650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to golf ballize my honda now.
< 1321515714 647771 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMI, plz.
< 1321515722 534676 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would increase my top speed!
< 1321515724 876206 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last picture is very artsy.
< 1321515727 882586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps I could hit 150.
< 1321515772 721993 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously they should make cars like that.
< 1321515798 455006 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it's not even that expensive compared to the fuel savings over years of travel.
< 1321516089 867973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but
< 1321516091 828168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really ugly
< 1321516274 161215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh no
< 1321516275 909600 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I wouldn't trust any MythBusters numbers as-is; there seems to be something called "FastSkinz" (ugh), some sort of a dimpled plastic wrap for cars, which according to one test doesn't do squat.
< 1321516283 351712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :American car culture will go into shock.
< 1321516292 376820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mybthusters
< 1321516293 942386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I just read that :)
< 1321516303 931361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fastskinz just makes me think of like
< 1321516304 787137 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fastskinz
< 1321516305 650020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :peeling human skin
< 1321516309 452424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and burning it off and like
< 1321516317 307160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still kinda soggy and burnt
< 1321516321 183200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's made by SkinzWraps.
< 1321516323 914914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you layer it over your car in the blistering heat
< 1321516325 325766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe mybthusters did better at the airodieyamicks
< 1321516326 786339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sizzles slightly
< 1321516330 946897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it starts to get redder and less pink
< 1321516333 59642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fuses to your bonnet
< 1321516341 812287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it melts into the car and your car becomes part human and euuuugh
< 1321516362 643877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy i dont want to live any more
< 1321516380 847059 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321516393 956600 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cars are bad
< 1321516400 26599 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321516419 752375 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321516428 398995 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fastskinz is literally just mass produced sheets that they apply to any car, it seems.
< 1321516440 521302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mythbusters created one for a specific body shape.
< 1321516444 162672 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there's a difference
< 1321516477 676425 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more than one way to skin a car.
< 1321516489 167195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did you envision that mental image well enough to
< 1321516490 781792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be disgusted
< 1321516492 886607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha.
< 1321516493 574641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only worsk with black car btw
< 1321516499 211134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I love peeling flesh.
< 1321516504 534541 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321516525 32185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you be my friend?
< 1321516553 99199 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321516629 335739 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flesh peels frend
< 1321516639 619744 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunrt peelt flesh cars frend
< 1321516648 414859 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vroome vroome
< 1321516651 24672 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"its fast"
< 1321516688 787831 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is C++ so bad.
< 1321516719 526447 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :because MSVC++
< 1321516728 764066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321516731 308267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's not why.
< 1321516736 444473 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because c++
< 1321516738 933437 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it doesn't tend to compile
< 1321516739 466193 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with C++ actually.
< 1321516744 33338 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321516750 718646 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use GCC
< 1321516753 509261 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :because typecasts
< 1321516753 814276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The US Air Force devised a non-random scheme for promotion. Photograph: David Moir/Reuters" --Guardian
< 1321516754 491660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is irrelevant
< 1321516758 930915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not that either.
< 1321516771 970572 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks usaf
< 1321516772 322647 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one particularly irksome thing is that string vs. char * stuff is stupid and annoying.
< 1321516773 896684 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget how you're supposed to cast stuff properly in C++ in a way that it stops bitching at you
< 1321516786 415703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: C++ is so bad because it has no design direction and is far too big, complicated, and self-contradictory for any possible design direction
< 1321516786 820909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth
< 1321516796 630126 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes thank you.
< 1321516798 416546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it.
< 1321516805 280342 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really want an explicit string class you should just stick with java
< 1321516810 699286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1321516811 752147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: what
< 1321516815 502936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321516817 903563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321516818 598628 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something that isn't C++
< 1321516822 338871 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let elliott handle this.
< 1321516823 527506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of possible C++ criticisms: MSVC++, typecasts, no explicit string cast
< 1321516827 575018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the whole list
< 1321516831 214920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cast/class/
< 1321516836 645833 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: do you not know the context of this discussion....
< 1321516839 726771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hasn't everyone used std::string for like the last
< 1321516843 502857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :decade??? or more?
< 1321516844 65359 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: it's kind of: essential to: understand it
< 1321516848 222968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's an explicit string class for you
< 1321516850 431465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently not.
< 1321516864 864935 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i use C hence why i tend not to give a shit about using "string"
< 1321516880 352344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah USUALLY you don't use features of other languages
< 1321516880 807245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ifstreams constructor parameter is char *... also its << operator won't take strings I have to allocate an array with associated overflow problems.
< 1321516881 559146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language
< 1321516886 976773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like perl ties don't appear much in my haskell code
< 1321516887 390688 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever i have to typecast something in C++ that refuses to accept my casts, i just pull out the extern "C" block
< 1321516898 504284 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude but they should
< 1321516904 898276 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ties should be integral to Haskell programming.
< 1321516912 954295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: uh its like .cstr() or something to convert an std::string to const char *
< 1321516917 80297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard :P
< 1321516926 906614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think ifstreams have << because... they're input streams
< 1321516929 393889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean >>
< 1321516932 150625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1321516949 798386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.data() seems to work as well
< 1321516949 929363 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ confusion
< 1321516952 630767 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the issue.
< 1321516969 934527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "A global function with the same name exists in header . This global function provides a similar behavior, but with standard C++ string objects instead of c-strings: see getline (string)."
< 1321516971 979972 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, i'm someone who would rather shoot myself in the foot than fuck around with unnecessary OO-overhead
< 1321516988 573907 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grease "hardcore" monkey
< 1321516988 786826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: or:
< 1321516989 596191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/operator%3E%3E/
< 1321516999 902195 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no idea how hard it was to type monkey properly
< 1321517004 31118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1321517011 66410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :greasemonqy
< 1321517015 317894 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; ;_; ;_;
< 1321517017 186848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hi.
< 1321517023 956566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/iostream/istream/operator%3E%3E/
< 1321517025 3285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah they
< 1321517026 548120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can do strings??
< 1321517030 645602 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi oh
< 1321517082 899654 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: another problem with C++: its documentation requires me to read too much.
< 1321517087 276222 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss stuff!!
< 1321517123 921345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1321517175 367133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh data isn't null-terminated
< 1321517177 303049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cstr is
< 1321517182 578073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :c_str rather
< 1321517257 9975 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but anyway, a legitimate complaint about C++: const
< 1321517269 901207 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea, bad reality.
< 1321517329 339147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :const is also in C :p
< 1321517452 805715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1321517457 528944 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes things much better.
< 1321518347 168664 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens when you try to compare an unsigned int with a signed int?
< 1321518350 184480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C.
< 1321518669 523561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a warning
< 1321518726 204210 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321519463 292199 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *might* get a warning
< 1321520082 579010 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321520345 492336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Bath_Room_Blow_Jobs
< 1321520355 564297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it really wants to do is link us to wikipedia
< 1321522611 683820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Elman_srnn.png
< 1321523308 952699 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321524088 808477 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321525476 942403 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321526588 36440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321527910 949519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321528305 541487 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BFF2.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321529018 1150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321529220 411029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover
< 1321529407 764949 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1321529408 282913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321530474 441936 :artoct6!~a@cpe-76-171-199-3.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321530612 964766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321530829 545469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1321530834 629466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321530841 989565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm teaching at 12, so won't have much time to talk much
< 1321530859 754307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, I've been here since last time I was here, just the connection here is really unreliable
< 1321530867 628356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except when I was printing stuff or eating lunch)
< 1321531053 722286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you teaching?
< 1321531345 164270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321532106 228768 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The art of running away, it seems.
< 1321532110 814810 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1321532197 165626 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321532281 272443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321532482 798606 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → cake day
< 1321532483 836123 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321532912 549670 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An apt pupil, I see.
< 1321533534 330496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :APT Guy?
< 1321534562 733056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you ever considered becoming an enterprise?
< 1321534709 39267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, to boldly go where no nickname has gone before. Also, to detach the saucer, that's also a thing that gets done, ain't it.
< 1321534727 425151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes; once at light speed.
< 1321534738 240479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kid not.
< 1321534745 200354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1321534746 496449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/light/warp/
< 1321534767 218084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Though highly unadvised, it was possible to separate the saucer from the stardrive section at high-warp velocities. Used by Jean-Luc Picard during the first encounter with the Q, the saucer was separated at a warp speed of 9.5. According to Data, it was highly impractical, but possible with no margin for error. The slightest mishap would have made this attempt deadly. It was also required to clear the saucer section from the stardrive section to
< 1321534767 354725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensure safety, because as soon as separation was over, the saucer section would start to lose speed, causing danger to the stardrive section. However, Picard was able to successfully separate the saucer in order to protect the families of the Enterprise from the immense power of Q. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint") "
< 1321534767 465743 :poia!genio@net-2-40-28-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321534774 537815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ poia ? welcome
< 1321534781 95926 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :poia: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321534783 282652 :artoct6!~a@cpe-76-171-199-3.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :
< 1321534867 828761 :poia!genio@net-2-40-28-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321536478 127513 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321537242 864800 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321537285 89719 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321537543 384710 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Works on SH4 (had my x-compiler building at night :P )
< 1321537557 948219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol
< 1321537614 767715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How about... one of Intel's RISC processors? I THINK one of them has their own architecture :P
< 1321537624 143351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH RISC is sooooo boring though.
< 1321537629 961909 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC is easy, yeah.
< 1321537639 14849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_iAPX_432
< 1321537643 622546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT.
< 1321537644 460425 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :z/Series does /not/ work, by the way :P
< 1321537691 809356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software running on the 432 does not need to explicitly deallocate objects that are no longer needed, and in fact no method is provided to do so. Instead, the microcode implements part of the marking portion of Edsger Dijkstra's on-the-fly parallel garbage collection algorithm (a mark-sweep style collector). The entries in the system object table contain the bits used to mark each object as being white, black, or grey as needed by the collector.
< 1321537695 832650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Holy shit this thing is the best???
< 1321537734 135959 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Architecture with OO memory. Wow
< 1321537761 706196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garbage-collected OO memory :P With built-in IPC
< 1321537817 110655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i860 The other VLIW Intel processor!
< 1321537836 212119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other horrible failure of a VLIW Intel processor!
< 1321537880 381315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you not even gonna test on a PDP btw? :P
< 1321537901 390067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP, VAXen, and x86 = the world, several times over.
< 1321537940 681249 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321538167 827494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321538188 441854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1321538237 495155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1321538249 194465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was teaching some first-year Java students recursion
< 1321538272 38207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elliott: it is /so annoying/ to see a question you can easily answer, and not be able to answer it because your Internet connection is refusing to work)
< 1321538278 630323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321538325 906496 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Test on the TI TMS320C64x, it's the non-failure non-Intel VLIW. (It's the DSP they have in OMAP3/OMAP4 and therefore in gazillions of mobile phones.)
< 1321538419 339196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the recommended cure if you start thinking about how wonderful ursala's data model is?
< 1321538460 105466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually using it
< 1321538471 314824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1321538482 396832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i only like one bit of it! ok, I like the other bits too, but in a totally different way.
< 1321538492 736477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bit do you like?
< 1321538542 252856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the data model
< 1321538547 676994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said that!
< 1321538555 904903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant actually using the data model
< 1321538560 711961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually using the language
< 1321538584 767506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you "use" a data model? that's rather under-the-hood stuff
< 1321538615 167222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… I'm beginning to think that the whole static vs. dynamic typing argument is missing the point
< 1321538622 736732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that what the two sides are arguing aren't mutually exclusive
< 1321538627 653653 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321538641 302918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^ only tangentially related)
< 1321538662 457557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /me thinks http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/an-old-article-i-wrote/ is relevant
< 1321538668 604171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, hmm, you could write a language using the model
< 1321538685 921139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a conditional is dynamic typing
< 1321539025 497450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Gregor: "The i860 did see some use in the workstation world as a graphics accelerator. It was used, for instance, in the NeXTdimension, where it ran a cut-down version of the Mach kernel running a complete PostScript stack. However, the PostScript part of the project was never finished so it ended up just moving color pixels around. In this role the i860 design worked considerably better, as the core program could be loaded into the cache
< 1321539025 669336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and made entirely "predictable", allowing the compilers to get the ordering right."
< 1321539106 368170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's quest for portability is rather madder than mine
< 1321539119 401492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just planning to check Linux-x86, Linux-ARM, and Windows-x86
< 1321539133 161245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly Linux-x86_64 too, I guess
< 1321539142 147134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're not writing a JIT
< 1321539152 944971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm planning to run a bunch of different compilers, as it's more a compiler thing that I'm exploiting than an arch thing
< 1321539160 173217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a massively portable JIT with no platform-specific code is more impressive than a C program just working on a bunch of architectures
< 1321539196 311197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed
< 1321539213 400859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think Gregor testing on a bunch of archs is correct, it'll lead to a more hilarious hints file
< 1321539258 262154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which will then be massively elided by the judges? :P
< 1321539289 647146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, they have no motive to elide it but to save a tiny amount of bandwidth
< 1321539320 480584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except that the hints files always include judge's comments and "/selected/ author's comments"
< 1321539337 899042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which never make sense as a complete hints file to send in because they're missing tons of information, usually things the judges have already stated in their own words earlier
< 1321539338 922845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but why would they deselect an arch list?
< 1321539346 911940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: readability?
< 1321539389 618490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too hard to mentally skip over an arch list
< 1321539422 754862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't understand why we have editors when I have Ctrl+F
< 1321539457 186696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I don't typically use editors for /reading/ files
< 1321539465 857559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatedly, why doesn't less do syntax highlighting?
< 1321539485 605304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there really needs to be a way to indicate bad jokes as separate from being dumb
< 1321540069 57098 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321540239 391810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I had to walk my gran
< 1321540250 779931 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to rewrite my comments to be more amusing.
< 1321540259 113291 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I ... what?
< 1321540271 533396 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's got a bad leg
< 1321540299 852258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the chance that elliott and Ngevd have met each other in real life but didn't recognise each other?
< 1321540307 645448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: too high
< 1321540309 37318 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people only use the word "walk" as transitive verb when they're referring to pets :P
< 1321540309 721577 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite likely
< 1321540322 278749 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham's not a big place
< 1321540349 607365 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :# time gcc -O1 full.c
< 1321540349 747617 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1297.88 real      1246.13 user        34.41 sys
< 1321540363 919167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, what :P
< 1321540368 825371 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: VAX
< 1321540372 671124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noice.
< 1321540376 120038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDPDPDPDPDPDPDP
< 1321540388 7779 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how's your IOCCC entry going?
< 1321540393 989694 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I'm talking about it right now :P
< 1321540414 215276 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: x86[_64], SPARC, MIPS[el], ARM, PowerPC[64], Alpha, VAX
< 1321540421 380241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1321540425 654947 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could compile it...
< 1321540440 959705 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On ALMOST ALL THE COMPUTERS I OWN
< 1321540457 595958 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about ALL THE 32-bit computers you own?
< 1321540490 755422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What computer do you own that isn't one of those? An Amiga?
< 1321540500 498252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commodore? Atari? I can't think of anything not really old.
< 1321540513 320812 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wii? DS? not sure if they even apply
< 1321540537 427475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS is ARM.
< 1321540548 51609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, two different, incompatible ARMs.
< 1321540554 308335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running simultaneously.
< 1321540574 148210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wii is PPCish.
< 1321540579 102534 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I've got computer that I don't know the architecture of
< 1321540583 725912 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly PPCish enough to run my JIT.
< 1321540585 100742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly PPCish enough for Gregor's JIT to work :P
< 1321540585 528805 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an XBox 360
< 1321540588 141782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT Gregor
< 1321540590 380346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOSE SENTENCES
< 1321540591 427476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECTLY
< 1321540594 827866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATCHED UP
< 1321540595 260923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR
< 1321540596 664186 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321540599 244500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUR WORDS
< 1321540600 323851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS
< 1321540605 12215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS LIKE
< 1321540606 436368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUANTUM
< 1321540608 724582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENTANGLEMENT
< 1321540609 556782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF WORDS
< 1321540616 860755 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, entanglement
< 1321540618 137281 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Eks bawks: Also PPCish
< 1321540667 215457 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatively old iPod Nano?
< 1321540669 807322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's PS3? Oh, Cell.
< 1321540676 997540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... PPCish.
< 1321540686 868492 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, SUN cc's option to not align memory is -misalign.
< 1321540693 144993 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, all the modern game systems are PPCish.
< 1321540701 201388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ARM: "The iPod Nano uses a PortalPlayer PP5021C "system on a chip" with dual embedded 80 MHz ARM 7TDMI processors."
< 1321540708 683777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my oldish computer uses ARM
< 1321540719 415854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I doubt, unless it's a netbook.
< 1321540735 724103 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a Samsung SoC in the second-generation Nano.
< 1321540737 175645 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got two stickers on it saying "ARM"
< 1321540742 440345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM-based, of course.
< 1321540749 369242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Get Deewiant to test it on OpenSolaris, then you can say you've tested it on REAL UNIX.
< 1321540754 304258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL SHIT UNIX
< 1321540764 674404 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm actually on Purdue's Solaris right now :P
< 1321540768 236491 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hence my SUN cc comment.
< 1321540777 721227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that's not Open!
< 1321540780 51407 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, they say AMD
< 1321540788 779857 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD, ARM, what's the diff
< 1321540789 137672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, surely "Sun cc".
< 1321540803 430049 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is x87
< 1321540807 634302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*86
< 1321540808 379719 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the one that comes in the SUNcc package.
< 1321540814 651211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sun C compiler" seems to be what Sun called it, but really, SUNcc?
< 1321540820 905834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's internals :P
< 1321540842 786470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At the MOST, I'll settle for SUN CC.
< 1321540853 782040 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunc.
< 1321540868 366533 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, make it able to be compiled on my digital watch and I'll be amazed
< 1321540874 82878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sunc is the premier compiler for the Itanic.
< 1321540880 691859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What model :-P
< 1321540894 828064 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some sort of Casio
< 1321540897 158277 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a compass
< 1321540912 492864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that describes ~1,000,000 models of watch.
< 1321540915 732091 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it run on the compass.
< 1321540922 244887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using only magnetism for computation.
< 1321540955 648187 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about z80? I think TI still makes e.g. the TI-84+ calculator based on that, so it's not "really old". Of course it's not 32-bit, and the computerness is arguable.
< 1321540965 848258 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it run on GBA SP?
< 1321540973 536675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should find a way to make it run on reality itself, answering such pressing questions as "is reality a RISC?", "what do reality's function prologues look like?", and "can reality segfault?".
< 1321540977 598197 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBA is an ARM too.
< 1321540985 605359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I told Gregor Z80, he said waaah address space.
< 1321540988 183770 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the world's an ARM.
< 1321540989 440855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it's big enough.
< 1321540992 128296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor said nothing.
< 1321540998 516054 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SNOT.
< 1321541005 870488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How can you even use more than like 16 megs of ram
< 1321541018 809118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z80 address space is 64K though.
< 1321541026 192694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eZ80 goes up to 16M.
< 1321541028 349041 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Allocating things as [W] where W = 9<<16 :P
< 1321541049 975178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That'll work for the 16 meg one, no?
< 1321541093 777789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And the other thing I allocate as 9<<25 :P
< 1321541102 254590 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, I changed that to 9<<16 too ...
< 1321541116 601174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just do malloc(SLIGHTLYLESSTHANW) if it fails :P
< 1321541144 202019 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I PROBABLY need about 3MB.
< 1321541151 697585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So eZ80 will work!
< 1321541156 444160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Grinten_projection Wow, this is definitively the worst map projection /ever/.
< 1321541169 236972 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap agreed
< 1321541176 606712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being vandalised by xkcd morons >_>
< 1321541179 572209 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris mmap doesn't like -1 as protection modes :P
< 1321541205 36227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: It has all the advantages of Mercator with none of the advantages of Mercator!
< 1321541228 604352 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun CC seems to generate the most retarded function epilogue imaginable ...
< 1321541233 784191 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the projection that's like those triangles
< 1321541237 766483 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fed4:       81 c7 e0 08     ret
< 1321541237 901551 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fed8:       81 e8 00 00     restore
< 1321541238 20191 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fedc:       81 c7 e0 08     ret
< 1321541238 65703 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fee0:       81 e8 00 00     restore
< 1321541238 65860 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fee4:       00 01 00 00     illtrap  0x10000
< 1321541238 243478 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fee8:       00 01 00 00     illtrap  0x10000
< 1321541240 256455 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2feec:       00 01 00 00     illtrap  0x10000
< 1321541242 236794 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fef0:       00 01 00 00     illtrap  0x10000
< 1321541244 248768 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2fef4:       00 01 00 00     illtrap  0x10000
< 1321541252 887071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what C compilers there are for eZ80, though, other than Zilog's own best-name-ever "eZ80ZDS0100ZCC" compiler.
< 1321541272 448634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eZ80ZDS0100ZCC might just be the best name for a compiler, ever.
< 1321541280 853117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Dymaxion was a strange dude.
< 1321541297 637643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HOW IS IT ACTUALLY CALLED eZ80ZDS0100ZCC
< 1321541319 560270 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Dymaxion's a brand name. You mean Buckminster Fuller
< 1321541321 320147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a component for the ZDS, the Zilog Developer Studio. I suppose they don't use the full name much.
< 1321541328 145831 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's what the title of the manual is.
< 1321541360 775461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: suffer through painful irl laughter at that name with me, please
< 1321541364 847854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure what C compilers there are for eZ80, though, other than Zilog's own best-name-ever "eZ80ZDS0100ZCC" compiler.
< 1321541379 782937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, just realised what you were referring to
< 1321541383 73243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am indeed IRL laughing
< 1321541395 323003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not that painful, and I managed not to be drinking water at the time
< 1321541404 888098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the prose only refers to it as "eZ80 C-Compiler", but that's more of a description than a name. I guess it's a matter of semantics.
< 1321541411 647596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to call @'s compiler @kjsdf'sd;sa;d'\glsd;ghkshlang
< 1321541418 312538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry need some numbers in there
< 1321541419 688674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to call @'s compiler @kjsdf'sd;sa;d'\glsd;ghkshlang2347839423
< 1321541457 25387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I bet the developers working on it anthropomorphise it with a name as catchy as it has.
< 1321541466 728501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, little old eZ80ZDS0100ZCC's broken again..."
< 1321541693 740505 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, AVR32 is a modern 32-bit instruction set you don't have in your list. And it runs Linux and all.
< 1321541723 541652 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321541749 375358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^
< 1321541904 96454 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That, and I guess you could consider m68k too. I mean, sure, it's quite obsolete, but VAX.
< 1321541929 459375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested that upon-a-time.
< 1321541993 564767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Petergray8
< 1321541995 628414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst person
< 1321542001 198053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ClueBot_Commons&diff=prev&oldid=461104563
< 1321542005 228653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolute worst :'(
< 1321542018 949709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell creates a wp account to vandalise anyway :P
< 1321542117 93479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly he considers it not vandalism. There are many kinds of folks.
< 1321542272 745016 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:46, 17 November 2011  95.149.230.3  (Undid revision 461104069 by Petergray8 (talk)) (Tag: section blanking)
< 1321542272 901405 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:00, 17 November 2011  Petergray8  (http://www.xkcd.com/977/)
< 1321542272 950047 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:57, 17 November 2011  ClueBot NG  (Reverting possible vandalism by Petergray8 to...)
< 1321542272 950200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:57, 17 November 2011  Petergray8  (http://www.xkcd.com/977/)
< 1321542282 187971 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think he's thinking now: IT KEEPS HAPPENING.
< 1321542865 786483 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321543162 194200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no problem with Cluebot arbitrarily removing out-of-place xkcd links
< 1321543201 917214 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321543441 239689 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321543446 200529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Avid Reader of XKCD and believe anything stated there should be paralleled here as well." --Petergray8, describing himself, a bad person
< 1321544340 913568 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321544377 51745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: STATUS REPORT
< 1321544412 403284 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to look at the Fentiman's offices today
< 1321544423 696574 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But their floor was being painted
< 1321544519 150815 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321544722 801955 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosstool-ng seems indecisive about whether it can make an m68k target ...
< 1321545512 486716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog
< 1321545913 495087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Was there ever a foog clan?
< 1321545925 45826 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1321545938 764276 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you can watch me play on termcast.org, I'm termcasting
< 1321545948 415709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might help me stay awake.
< 1321545966 824227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, he says, tuning into Sokoban.
< 1321545978 956116 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's /that/ Sokoban level I'm in
< 1321545982 866282 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that everyone hates
< 1321545991 622731 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have the solution mostly memorised by now
< 1321546021 896203 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAEB523 is also termcasting
< 1321546071 90855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What clan is e in?
< 1321546075 497171 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clan bot
< 1321546081 322201 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :founding and only member
< 1321546106 378118 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to persuade xaiph to join, but she doesn't understand ssh
< 1321546109 285764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: How lonely. Can I join? I guarantee I am not distinguishably better at playing NetHack than a bot :-)
< 1321546120 137842 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, umm, you aren't a bot
< 1321546134 915942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're saying it's a speciesist clan?
< 1321546142 718615 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott can pass the turing antitest
< 1321546153 828605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote turing.*Sgeo
< 1321546154 45563 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321546156 175992 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :445)  Will anyone be irritated if I tend to disconnect and reconnect a lot? [...]  we _almost_ have an established policy that bots will be banned it they do that.  which means we might have to administer a turing test to sgeo, and that could get ugly.
< 1321546165 12256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I protest?
< 1321546165 146015 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I did there
< 1321546180 758591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to do the Sokoban levels by just vaulting over the pits.
< 1321546183 34171 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turing antitest would be lost by humans really easily
< 1321546196 36648 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can do the first one like that; the others, though, you get dragged down by air currents
< 1321546201 510408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Turing antitest would be some long equation with a lot of digits that's really easy to compute.
< 1321546223 465393 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for NetHack bots, something along the line of "calculate the distance between the two staircases, you have 0.001 of a second, go!"
< 1321546228 469215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321546265 477844 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TAEB523 would probably lose that one, incidentally; it doesn't calculate distances in steps)
< 1321546285 934553 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and uses really heavy caching to optimise distance lookups, and the cache takes several seconds to build)
< 1321546329 951997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: TAEB523 is Planar, presumably?
< 1321546340 50793 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321546360 59176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I can tell whether you've noticed I've typed something or not because you stop moving in the termcast.
< 1321546366 951872 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the Planar bots have had 523 in their name
< 1321546388 498166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Was that zombie invisible?
< 1321546393 439483 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321546399 301838 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were two of them, they didn't last long
< 1321546403 349064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very lightly-coloured, by any chance?
< 1321546408 915951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a white-backgrounded terminal.
< 1321546414 455257 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're white
< 1321546425 265408 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: aha!
< 1321546430 81613 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack sends foreground color codes but not background color codes
< 1321546437 102246 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you thought you could pass the turing test!
< 1321546447 76156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: good; I would have disconnected if it forced me to look at a black background
< 1321546455 340831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now most of the screen is legible, rather than none of it
< 1321546470 774613 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AceHack sets background too because you never set one without the other
< 1321546480 251749 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking of allowing you to swap two color codes for terminal native background/foreground
< 1321546499 982706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes, that's one of the main things that annoys me about acehack.
< 1321546514 326936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it's possible to clash badly with background colours doesn't mean "impose /more/ of my preferences rigidly" is the correct solution
< 1321546528 969377 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a case of "impose preferences without which the game doesn't work"
< 1321546536 524082 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, the game should be fixed to work with a white background too
< 1321546541 853214 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm thinking about ways to do that
< 1321546646 97683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part of termcast compared to NAO is that I can't annoy people by sending them in-game mail.
< 1321546651 206945 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321546677 703902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, you're walking outside the map. Stop it.
< 1321546685 818087 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm not
< 1321546697 672378 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you think the map /is/?
< 1321546707 529439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: You punched holes in the map!
< 1321546709 897688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not natural!
< 1321546724 688724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1321546731 226009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my terminal just desync'd somehow
< 1321546739 704447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1321546743 250282 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just redrew
< 1321546814 115790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the collective name for snakes is.
< 1321546828 324892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the collective name for mice is "friendship", as in "a friendship of mice".
< 1321546904 219865 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric
< 1321546915 598770 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I'll ever cast knock?
< 1321546922 493804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, are you playing at >80x24?
< 1321546929 490290 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful as I have no other method of unlocking things, but a valk's unlikely to get it castable for ages
< 1321546933 682545 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm playing at 80x24 exactly
< 1321546942 870704 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is the norm for termcasts
< 1321546948 911048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, my terminal was 22 high
< 1321546949 853445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange
< 1321546957 441659 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hmm, BoH variant, I may be in trouble if I don't find an asc kit item soon (BoH isn't urgent)
< 1321546961 910457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you redraw again? :P
< 1321546966 471475 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1321546967 126419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1321546992 332526 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall I do this trapping two boulders (the way everyone does it) or trapping no boulders (which is about twice as long, but massively impressive)?
< 1321547034 378014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm biased because watching people play Sokoban is not terrible interesting
< 1321547039 328738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but impressiveness is always good I suppose
< 1321547042 877453 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321547046 632988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/terrible/terribly/
< 1321547076 780412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do it my way (well, it was the other map), which is trapping like fifty boulders, ending up with too few, and killing one of your five kittens in the process of getting more.
< 1321547090 357891 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321547139 424361 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I haven't messed this up, have I?
< 1321547152 643551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... looks sort of messed up, but I'm no expert.
< 1321547182 932364 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll trap one
< 1321547262 941473 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still better than the usual solution where two are trapped
< 1321547267 897165 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I remembered wrong?
< 1321547278 924445 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I watch?
< 1321547282 494549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot the five kittens.
< 1321547283 754063 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: telnet termcast.org
< 1321547285 126637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: $ telnet termcast.org
< 1321547288 582087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then press the letter for ais523
< 1321547325 567241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watching
< 1321547498 393751 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it did come in useful, as well
< 1321547541 366157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :El-berhte/ehlbereth0EleberthElerberetheElber*(48thEeb*($H$)XthElbereth
< 1321547737 674217 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, first time I do the Sokoban zoo without waking it, and there's a leprechaun blocking the door to the prize
< 1321547821 58685 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, did I just eyebump?
< 1321547824 398174 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could have gone a lot worse
< 1321547936 337488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321548062 935902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven get out of the dungeon
< 1321548065 520942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont belong here..
< 1321548277 308364 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321548415 200131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay mines, full of nice hapyp gomes
< 1321548420 599891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gomes like Ngevd
< 1321548444 316176 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I possibly won't even mercilessly slaughter them!
< 1321548459 91058 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about being lawful in NetHack, is that monsters believe you'll be law-abiding regardless of whether you actually are or not
< 1321548463 1928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog does not know the delights of being at peace with the gnomes.
< 1321548499 354176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ais523\unfoog's gratuitous use of ctrl+move makes me feel better about my constant usage of it
< 1321548517 323019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why press a direction key twice when you can combine it with ctrl instead?
< 1321548518 551314 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I'd be using autoexplore sometimes if it existed in vanilla
< 1321548529 993355 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: farmoving is safer than spamming a key
< 1321548538 942813 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it stops when you're in trouble, unlike holding the key down
< 1321548578 405013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like roguelikes a lot more if they didn't involve so much micromanagement of simple map navigation
< 1321548598 661260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just be able to glance at a tile and say "over there" and be walked there. :p
< 1321548655 729357 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, that's what the _ command is for; it's just that specifying the tile needs cursor movement or a click
< 1321548693 783094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well, yes; that's considerably more work than glancing :)
< 1321548716 731313 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine it with a gaze sensor?
< 1321548729 25699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus speech recognition!! Best roguelike!
< 1321548756 904399 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speech recognition would get wearing quickly
< 1321548774 592185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grunt recognition.
< 1321548794 839337 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, Manlobbi, my pickaxe is outside
< 1321548800 992568 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't worry, I'm not actually planning to take it out of the bag)
< 1321548884 282969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find Minetown's design somewhat perplexing.
< 1321549022 290657 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321549031 896982 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the portal is a /dev/null thing, I think it's just placed randomly on the level
< 1321549063 461281 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I can't BCU it without buying it
< 1321549092 67247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, don't recall a portal :) but i've only been idly watching
< 1321549100 119828 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the pink ^
< 1321549153 592310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. what does it do?
< 1321549180 146512 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes to the digdug challenge
< 1321549182 717684 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is stupidly luck-based
< 1321549207 27494 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering whether to risk trying it; I can't remember if failing it can still leave you permanently trapped (I'm guessing no)
< 1321549227 13929 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing it /does/ make the current game basically unwinnable until you go succeed at it on another server
< 1321549255 444684 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I really want a ?oCharging before I try it, and I won't have one of those IDed for ages
< 1321549260 288421 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, Dx:15
< 1321549261 507876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321549263 182356 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I risk it?
< 1321549268 395759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes
< 1321549285 29678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this reply does not consider your current situation; it is based purely on the structure of the question)
< 1321549293 768716 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321549326 455445 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let's try it
< 1321549362 965659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it's good when it starts with an elbereth
< 1321549389 652094 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spawned next to a monster
< 1321549398 478519 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no other real choice
< 1321549409 782925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott test
< 1321549410 374672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself!
< 1321549412 854096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1321549419 877910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :qqq
< 1321549421 670709 :qqq!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott test
< 1321549422 252293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321549423 246005 :qqq!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott
< 1321549425 678955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1321549426 301321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321549428 950820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321549531 457325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: i love distorted elbereths
< 1321549556 448849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elbeeth
< 1321549584 447203 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, failed
< 1321549592 697309 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid luckbased missions
< 1321549602 810824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I just ruin anouther tournament game for you?
< 1321549607 64783 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, unless I can wrest it to death
< 1321549620 499083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing happens
< 1321549628 326215 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 1/121 chance something happens
< 1321549632 935519 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's got to happen eventually
< 1321549633 242318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good
< 1321549643 740404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack needs control structures
< 1321549646 362099 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, and it missed anyway
< 1321549689 604729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so funny
< 1321549726 507108 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, /now/ I'm screwed
< 1321549739 534120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: try poking itto death
< 1321549746 882148 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't win the challenge if you do that
< 1321549750 141673 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're rather easy to kill with HP
< 1321549761 474768 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just makes sure you lose
< 1321549808 154211 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, that was a really crazy offchance and it /actually happened/
< 1321549822 56228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what happened?
< 1321549833 222967 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :random unIDed !oPoly while wearing an unIDed =oPC
< 1321549835 600361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure pooka is fooled
< 1321549851 330252 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I lost anyway due to being hit too muich
< 1321549851 607632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh00ps
< 1321549852 907793 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*much
< 1321549865 321058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about your game
< 1321549878 200556 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to go play on a different server to recover from that
< 1321549882 656041 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, startscumming wizards
< 1321549897 470783 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321549901 129957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :taeb523 is ugly on this terminal
< 1321549990 969994 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going to startscum wizards on clan EIT's server
< 1321550015 156419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches
< 1321550078 276603 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?oCharging is quite rare
< 1321550078 749419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1321550082 401171 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes the challenge much easier
< 1321550091 857323 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more likely to win
< 1321550095 655603 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a skill-based challenge
< 1321550129 17323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: grr, that "would you like to return" message is missing a space and uses (y/n) in place of the proper [yn]
< 1321550135 340221 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321550148 4895 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, makes me press return after typing y, unlike every other prompt in NetHack
< 1321550240 977904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: that's more understandable, it takes more than a few chars of patch to fix that :)
< 1321550247 393906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: also, it has two spaces after the prompt...
< 1321550284 986674 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, why does ?oCharging have to be so rare
< 1321550293 625576 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /oDangerouslyInflate so low on charges
< 1321550314 788544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wand of dangerously inflate is definitely name of the century imo
< 1321550338 470614 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that name is the only good thing about the digdug challenge ;)
< 1321550352 669117 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /suspect/ you aren't supposed to be able to trivialise the movement around the level with E-coining
< 1321550358 357703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i just realised what @'s equivalent of database indexes, and the answer makes me very happy
< 1321550365 500693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/indexes/indexes is/
< 1321550469 697309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321550496 9155 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo
< 1321550509 985049 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to somehow survive to the challenge
< 1321550520 721826 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how awful the rest of that inventory is
< 1321550526 279218 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can have fun with +oFear after a while, at least
< 1321550570 552463 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, now I have to remember how to play wizard
< 1321550625 372278 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten why are you fetching gems, you know they're worthless
< 1321550636 322681 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321550658 622292 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1321550665 360111 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to give cats female names, for whatever reason
< 1321550678 317575 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may rewrite Homestuck as a epic poem
< 1321550696 290558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: because kitten is not smart kitten is just happy???
< 1321550704 504931 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the style of, for example, the Odyssey
< 1321550707 571601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gems are pretty............
< 1321550724 637380 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tell me muse, of the tale of Sburb"
< 1321550725 668509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i am projecting onto the kitten)
< 1321550747 844060 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's called Gemma
< 1321550748 73960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kitten why are you fetching gems, you know they're worthless
< 1321550748 395306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321550754 63968 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the least aisy thing to say?
< 1321550770 101745 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that may be didactic hexhameter
< 1321550775 703385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hexhameter
< 1321550780 718252 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321550780 763643 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAARGH
< 1321550786 398210 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the second h
< 1321550795 478660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't deliberate?
< 1321550797 893931 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321550814 85797 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a great typo anyway
< 1321550827 468263 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you're used to typing "hexham"
< 1321550881 210021 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lichens are worth 4 XP? wow!
< 1321550892 448439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is hexham + helsinki + feather
< 1321550895 745848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I meant dactylic, not didactic
< 1321550900 937682 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feather is a country?
< 1321550916 504963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321550920 265139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, will haven be.
< 1321551073 774553 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, XL 2
< 1321551221 84321 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, only 31% fail on force bolt even with metal armour?
< 1321551229 285115 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*29%
< 1321551234 568956 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :**39%
< 1321551241 580624 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that goes with my intelligence of 19
< 1321551311 117048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321551332 594609 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321551342 111452 :elliott!elliott@95.149.230.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321551342 859361 :elliott!elliott@95.149.230.3 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321551342 905200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321551616 712388 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose my gnome is home
< 1321551720 289452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321551887 979767 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what OS name am I supposed to use in an MMIX triple?
< 1321551899 49636 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009
< 1321552040 670650 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proceeds to use mmix-unknown-mmix as if that makes any sense.
< 1321552052 664548 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, doesn't like that ...
< 1321552058 31358 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmix-unknown-mmixware?
< 1321552064 830698 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha
< 1321552380 560042 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Configuration mmix-unknown-mmixware not supported GCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
< 1321552387 683693 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was supposed to be "GCSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
< 1321552407 879527 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try changing that to A-level
< 1321552416 704617 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sentiment which Ngevd will no doubt— dammit.
< 1321552447 166988 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I target GCC for this >_<
< 1321552589 120753 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmix-mmixware apparently.
< 1321552593 969626 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmix-unknown-mmixware is no-go
< 1321552893 202839 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321553702 843670 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :         1. 4000000000000094: 27fefe10 (SUBUI) privileged instruction!
< 1321553704 950855 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you MMIX
< 1321553730 50394 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell mmix "I am privileged, let me run privileged instructions"
< 1321553752 32648 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should the program need privileged instructions?
< 1321553822 777221 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Arguably. I have no mmap, so I'm just plopping instructions into malloc'd space and then executing them. Probably doing that requires some privs.
< 1321553926 776647 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet it would work too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.
< 1321553945 604089 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321553969 441129 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: can't you mprotect the malloced area to be executable/
< 1321553980 327078 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: No mprotect either.
< 1321553987 468304 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1321554049 426420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321554124 124849 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or subtraction is a privileged operation :)
< 1321554124 598057 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321554166 269812 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The obnoxious thing is, looking at the code, I'm confident this would work.
< 1321554169 372274 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't test it.
< 1321555686 999283 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321555724 801046 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321556486 743433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321556496 774361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321556526 349735 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321556641 632875 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321556728 526587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello peons.
< 1321556742 442127 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's peons?
< 1321556996 391911 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose peons
< 1321557070 81456 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eons of peons muahahahahaha
< 1321557153 694725 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've the Fifteen best 3d tv Next year worlwide : and put each one of style a single spot intended for your current verdic-doing pleasure.
< 1321557210 134121 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1321557210 201518 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1321557214 595825 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321557216 488221 :z^ck!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321558118 561394 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the knowledge that Brunt is also played by jeffrey combs is really hard to integrate
< 1321558234 323173 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321558277 597785 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321558281 777123 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321558287 844247 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321558869 92489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :]http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/11/17/142414818/americans-are-fat-and-expected-to-get-much-fatter?sc=fb&cc=fp
< 1321558874 174915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the most shocking news I've read in a long time.
< 1321558878 983814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Americans are /fat/?
< 1321559503 753800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously why are we not cutting military spending this is obscene.
< 1321559509 520285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erwerjwjtwehthweuhwuierh america
< 1321559665 103199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to laugh if they rescind the automatic sequestration that's supposed to occur if the supercommittee doesn't reach an agreement.
< 1321559668 150589 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :laugh and then cry.
< 1321559750 178238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has warned Congress that automatic across-the-board cuts to the Pentagon's budget would "invite aggression from U.S. adversaries."
< 1321559755 783253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap this is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.
< 1321559758 69512 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like who?
< 1321559767 660631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: like who what?
< 1321559796 367570 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only people that would be actively *agressive* against the US would do well to handle a single guy from Texas.
< 1321559798 335296 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321559825 354994 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than, y'know, just pretty damned annoyed at the US because we *haven't* cut the military. :P
< 1321559834 589552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
< 1321559841 675963 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay look at this
< 1321559848 397861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per capita Switzerland has the highest
< 1321559859 372190 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tell me that cutting $600 billion over a decade from that
< 1321559869 921327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :will make us INCREDIBLY VULNERABLE TO ATTACK.
< 1321559875 360781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAH PANIC
< 1321559876 395296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1321559889 316385 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO CHINA MIGHT ATTACK THEIR SINGLE LARGEST TRADING PARTNER
< 1321559900 742666 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR REASONS UNBEKNOWNST TO ME
< 1321559906 475251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or worse: FRANCE
< 1321559927 691142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be 1812 all over again!
< 1321559935 223268 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with a different country!
< 1321559936 203036 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no really that's insan.
< 1321559941 85082 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321559942 792867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r
< 1321559944 987647 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321559994 610230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could cut from the military, pay off the deficit, and still be spending well over /quadruple/ what the next highest country in military expenditure spends on its military.
< 1321560018 390519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(over time I mean)
< 1321560022 108673 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not all at once)
< 1321560197 843394 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the news tends to cover how much money programs will make in a decade or whatever.
< 1321560214 88520 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really more about whether or not it will reverse the expenditure/revenue disparity.
< 1321560306 468787 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could also divert that funding to NASA, and have 50x'd the NASA budget.
< 1321560323 394278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably produce rather absurd economic growth from not throwing that money onto a burn pit.
< 1321560361 50581 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINK OF THE SCIENCE!
< 1321560408 676835 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people see "$600 billion over a decade" and then look at a 15 trillion dollar deficit and think "oh well that's really not going to help at all this is pointless"
< 1321560430 15136 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should present in terms of how much it changes cost vs. revenue.
< 1321560449 174557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh also
< 1321560451 560476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were sane before
< 1321560453 43273 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.usdebtclock.org/
< 1321560456 729983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're not.
< 1321560467 421236 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
< 1321560503 109569 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What's worse is that if you consider debt to GDP ratio, the US isn't that bad.
< 1321560516 21741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1321560517 113247 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet:
< 1321560518 80525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321560532 104667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: That would involve more meta than audiences are usually comfortable with.
< 1321560533 515087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh really?
< 1321560555 334362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I mean
< 1321560558 205216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_:
< 1321560589 752484 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: indeed
< 1321560618 679908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah on the debt clock
< 1321560626 844299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the section titled "largest budget items"
< 1321560637 407010 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: We're nearing 100%.
< 1321560641 718714 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now pick the ones you'd be most comfortable cutting.
< 1321560650 37613 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it's the defense/wars category
< 1321560656 95866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Japan is currently sitting at around 250%.
< 1321560669 483612 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Public_debt_percent_gdp_world_map_%282010%29.svg
< 1321560725 554056 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's really effing crazy is Japan is pretty close to the US national debt *in absolute terms*.
< 1321560737 483627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321560738 888569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe
< 1321560744 914858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just make less of a deal about our debt?
< 1321560750 13397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will cease to matter? :P
< 1321560758 847701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a *little* bit of an issue, but yes, it really is overblown.
< 1321560772 173635 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh.
< 1321560776 483244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically
< 1321560782 204741 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :american citizens are bad at numbers
< 1321560783 54392 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1321560784 573141 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know.
< 1321560795 759320 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most developed nations have rather high national debt, and have for ages.
< 1321560819 670792 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe...
< 1321560829 110185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :politicans are kind of intelligent, or at least some of them are
< 1321560830 538909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and know this?
< 1321560831 146764 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is in part because the government loaning money is a major part of the basis of the worth of fiat currency.
< 1321560859 127089 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, borrowing.
< 1321560989 624245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, it's a systematic problem that can easily become worse (the deficit)
< 1321560992 847132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so..
< 1321561000 672291 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something worth fixing now before it gets truly problematic.
< 1321561010 954725 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true.
< 1321561026 282911 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The key to doing that is actually rather simple: don't have a budget deficit.
< 1321561034 402783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no rite?
< 1321561038 538936 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require military cuts.
< 1321561042 812580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasp
< 1321561045 435425 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: TERRORISTS
< 1321561048 990794 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why it's not happened.
< 1321561083 690301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: WE NEED THE MILITARY BUDGET OF SEVERAL POWERFUL NATIONS COMBINED IN ORDER TO COMBAT NON-STATE GUERILLA FORCES.
< 1321561088 152158 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else we're /doomed/
< 1321561106 272789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck. I'd imagine if we just got rid of military bases in countries that have been stable in the long term and aren't near nations that *aren't*, we'd have pretty much gotten rid of the budget deficit.
< 1321561119 92510 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Goodbye, bases in Europe.
< 1321561147 631499 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye, last vestiges of the US occupation of Japan.
< 1321561166 66292 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly can't do anything at all about South Korea; nominally that's still a war zone.
< 1321561247 265828 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: say the fuck goodbye to Australia and Canada (why we have bases there is beyond me)
< 1321561269 161937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: SO THAT WE CAN ASSIST OUR ALLIES IN THEIR TIME OF NEED.
< 1321561275 319485 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, not politics.
< 1321561288 249761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the nazi terrorists land on the shores of Canada will be ready to nuke them.
< 1321561293 339097 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*we will
< 1321561329 650469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: contribute or shush :P
< 1321561357 221374 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuke canada? sounds like the natural reaction yes
< 1321561365 288411 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321561372 190402 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
< 1321561377 922456 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This DS9 you were talking about?
< 1321561405 704088 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: yes, as always recently, about a season left of it
< 1321561420 310860 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which episode?
< 1321561428 390104 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm assuming it was some assault on the Dominion.)
< 1321561444 992965 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, wow, looking at that debt graph, the UK isn't as bad as I'd have thought.
< 1321561462 132069 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this was 6x24 - Time's Orphan... molly goes into a time thingamajig
< 1321561473 859162 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well it was kind of to highlight the lack of sense that happens when you think about war in terms of conventional/nonconventional warfare and nuclear warfare at the same time.
< 1321561489 915163 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at it further, I'm seriously doubting the usefulness of it as a metric.
< 1321561490 258427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, yes that's the best course of action.
< 1321561492 245347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that scenario.
< 1321561499 405510 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ah, yes, the last O'Brien Must Suffer!
< 1321561510 749162 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Was there one in S7, I don't really remember any.)
< 1321561516 253019 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It seems to be only loosely useful as a metric.
< 1321561525 856634 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I doubt /your/ usefulness as a metric.
< 1321561532 174928 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more important, IME, is ability and willingness to repay debt.
< 1321561538 164413 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a metric.
< 1321561569 75985 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm overflowing with x, y such that x /= y, Phantom__Hoover(x,y) = 0.
< 1321561851 594510 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321561880 980047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: well, in dominion war plots, success could happen that early because there are ways to go after that...
< 1321561893 163618 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in your basic get problem/solve problem plot like this, you can only have failed solutions until the end of the episode
< 1321561955 134965 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what would be bad is if lawmakers decide to cut medicare / social security instead of military spending.
< 1321561966 856644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also impossible.
< 1321561970 350721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would hurt old people.
< 1321561972 747679 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old people vote.
< 1321561989 208368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes, and those are the two main alternatives
< 1321561991 263743 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... hopefully
< 1321561994 258217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the choice is obvious.
< 1321561995 257549 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get rid of their social security and you get a lynch mob.
< 1321562015 711271 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of old people, mind, but a lynch mob is still nothing to fuck around with.
< 1321562031 894776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but apparently Rick Perry wants to cut education? wtf
< 1321562050 546092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone won the presidency on an offer to cut SPENDING AWAY FROM THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN
< 1321562053 555392 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf.
< 1321562078 464558 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :education gets you smart people, and smart people are boring as well as scary in the eyes of stupid people
< 1321562094 247808 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the proper approach is to stop educating people
< 1321562161 692438 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321562162 482225 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, replace "smart" with "educated" there, different things...
< 1321562393 362972 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321562716 775637 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: c'est spam on le wiki
< 1321562781 469723 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: deleted
< 1321562865 813489 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321563674 987140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh hey so I started talking about military spending on facebook and one of my friends who has a husband in the military was like "lol military spending, that's funny"
< 1321563679 621639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED.
< 1321563691 740588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION releases the fact bombs.
< 1321563731 440562 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'd imagine part of her reaction to that is because, well, our military spending is *moronic*.
< 1321563739 717751 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Billions on a useless device? Okay!
< 1321563751 124905 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: er I meant to say /military spending/cut military spending/
< 1321563760 753895 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supply soldiers basic amenities? Eh, if we feel like it, maybe.
< 1321563786 434615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: she equates "cut military spending" with "leave soldiers who need vital equipment defenseless"
< 1321563789 580350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was already do anyway.
< 1321563799 171605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/we/
< 1321564330 110522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: also if we diverting funding from the military into NASA
< 1321564337 953609 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only would we get civilian technological advancements
< 1321564340 262836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but military as well.
< 1321564346 724029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, we could anyway
< 1321564351 514895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided NASA were sufficiently funded.
< 1321564373 549832 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :and
< 1321564402 636592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: hi
< 1321564405 890123 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I resume the nick-change is related to other-channel shenanigans
< 1321564417 520501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome @and
< 1321564419 493255 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome @and? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321564419 574448 :and!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321564431 912993 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @and welcom
< 1321564433 734239 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@and welcom? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321564443 492315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do that again?
< 1321564466 427002 :and!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321564466 472182 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321564471 997278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ copumpkin welcome
< 1321564474 241163 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: exec: 9: welcome: not found
< 1321564479 185115 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ copumpkin ? welcome
< 1321564481 491797 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321564497 899245 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the one
< 1321564513 479760 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :failbot
< 1321564524 817789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :failpumpkin
< 1321564742 901875 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo '#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"' >bin/welcome
< 1321564744 814247 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"' >bin/welcome
< 1321564749 154406 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321564755 127303 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"' >bin/welcome
< 1321564757 236424 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321564763 875460 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome
< 1321564765 772984 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"
< 1321564772 887394 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321564778 179809 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321564805 312751 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha. ha. ha ha.
< 1321564808 783381 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "#!/bin/sh\n@ "'"$1 ? welcome"' >bin/welcome
< 1321564810 772975 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321564813 566257 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome
< 1321564815 599787 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh\n@ "$1 ? welcome"
< 1321564825 564170 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321564827 296536 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod: missing operand after `+x bin/welcome' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information.
< 1321564831 517824 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321564835 829078 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn
< 1321564902 705718 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo "#!/bin/sh"; echo '@ "$1 ? welcome"') >bin/welcome
< 1321564904 842551 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321564909 877344 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome
< 1321564910 957198 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321564911 768489 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ @ "$1 ? welcome"
< 1321564923 448029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321564925 453579 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321564930 78027 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome whoever
< 1321564932 545357 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321564937 70614 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321564940 498154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome The Pope
< 1321564942 756467 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The: exec: 9: Pope: not found
< 1321564947 930216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUG
< 1321564951 465381 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321564952 665465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome 'The Pope'
< 1321564954 785750 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'The: exec: 9: Pope': not found
< 1321564956 501460 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome 'The Pope'
< 1321564958 762080 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The: exec: 9: Pope: not found
< 1321564985 270130 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321564996 18742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ doesn't take multiple words and stuff
< 1321564997 245278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is why
< 1321564997 928362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1321565007 582537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not really a bug per se
< 1321565010 830735 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321565012 3745 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't welcome the pope :(
< 1321565021 357064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Oprah
< 1321565023 139838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/@
< 1321565024 85723 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oprah: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321565024 974100 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ if echo "$1" | grep -c ' ' >/dev/null; then \     echo -n "$1" | sed 's/ .*/: /' \     exec $(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ else \     echo -n "$1: " \     shift \     exec "$@" \ fi \
< 1321565025 799857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaay
< 1321565044 648694 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it needs to know when the name ends and the command begins
< 1321565063 260060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :restricting the name to one word (since it's supposed to be an IRC nick) is totally reasonable
< 1321565080 216318 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ The Pope ? welcome
< 1321565082 591665 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The: exec: 9: Pope: not found
< 1321565087 71962 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321565089 626207 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ ThePope ? welcome
< 1321565092 157125 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThePope: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321565132 263605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with the >/dev/null?
< 1321565136 93305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321565137 324746 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind
< 1321565137 765592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321565353 244526 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ ThePope welcome
< 1321565355 861263 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThePope: : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321565359 628366 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321565362 191201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)))
< 1321565373 580235 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh :P
< 1321565379 724686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ ThePope welcome asshole
< 1321565382 599012 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThePope: asshole: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321565418 60693 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321565428 298813 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we see the noble viking savage Oerjan perplexed by the workings of combining bash scripts.
< 1321565466 366074 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is likely playing with the large pointy horns atop his helmet.
< 1321565472 209183 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is totally a thing vikings have.
< 1321565477 214965 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely.
< 1321565504 975393 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, horns?  no way.  horns are for cows
< 1321565604 979835 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a horned helmet
< 1321565615 16837 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321565711 780061 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it seems to be missing one of its horns, I suspect it became a drinking glass at some point
< 1321565729 14563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for viking... mead?
< 1321565732 157685 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do vikings drink.
< 1321565738 534036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mead is good
< 1321565754 444888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes vikings love mead.
< 1321565762 154599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer also good
< 1321565768 34993 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wine is for girly men
< 1321565776 61676 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you've never had American light beer, I see.
< 1321565793 50434 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: assorted alcoholic beverages of unspecified kind
< 1321565806 151981 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vinland is irrelevant.  _norse_ beer is good.
< 1321565870 936313 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norse-world.png
< 1321565878 535070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice worldview you have.
< 1321565894 9168 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: norse beer... like ringnes?
< 1321565919 410278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helluland. good land.
< 1321565926 784157 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the swede seems to be brewing up a fight
< 1321566061 915472 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell of a land
< 1321566220 928649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what's it like being superior to all other races?
< 1321566243 467178 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good
< 1321566290 623463 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOOGNIHGT
< 1321566294 562891 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-37.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321566297 132098 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I imagine Hitler would have great respect for you if his empire still existed today. :>
< 1321566353 23597 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which perl
< 1321566354 983633 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/perl
< 1321566486 764128 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which perl`
< 1321566489 2499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF...
< 1321566624 841274 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which perl test
< 1321566626 740699 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/perl \ /usr/bin/test
< 1321566631 660550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321566634 647169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run test
< 1321566636 602724 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321566644 787569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o?
< 1321566713 74233 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think test only acts by exit code...
< 1321566795 374822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1321567441 936562 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is wrong
< 1321567444 147261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is missing.
< 1321567624 937278 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm exceptionally annoyed too.
< 1321567763 928329 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_ = $ARGV[0]; if ($_) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }') >bin/welcome
< 1321567766 417009 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321567785 436661 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321567786 509141 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-243-68.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321567787 40662 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321567790 981338 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome test
< 1321567793 20680 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `{' \ /hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: `$_ = $ARGV[0]; if ($_) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }'
< 1321567796 931874 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321567801 994570 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321567823 677021 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome
< 1321567824 208478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web_: NEW HOMESTUCK OMG
< 1321567825 428680 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = $ARGV[0]; if ($_) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
< 1321567834 882808 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-157-157.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321567870 633616 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you want me to start being your notifier, or are you somehow peeking ahead?
< 1321567914 381172 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that update is old
< 1321567942 8915 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321567945 950733 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/mfpxi/if_starlight_is_extremely_old_if_someone_were_to/c30ladn?context=3
< 1321567951 906028 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ultimate obnoxious smiley.
< 1321567970 495144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott If everything goes well a new super-resolution Skyrim pano will be ready during the weekend. I found the fov switch in the skyrim console :)
< 1321567971 180382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321567986 711982 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, shut up about Skyrim you bastard the pain is too much
< 1321568044 725602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, what? aren't you getting a new computer?
< 1321568050 911798 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321568057 326940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then
< 1321568060 123023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the issue?
< 1321568078 260452 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, displaying astonishing attention to detail, recommended a mini-ATX case.
< 1321568096 873119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, he what
< 1321568102 528405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, I hope you didn't buy that?
< 1321568110 371383 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321568126 690044 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it was an honest mistake, and I had to look quite hard to find that detail on the product page.
< 1321568126 957261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web_: I was actually just fooling you into thinking there was more
< 1321568136 329910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, so you ordered it. ouch
< 1321568137 349341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have known that you hit refresh constantly waiting for updates
< 1321568137 590451 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was categorised with ATX cases, apparently.
< 1321568142 833766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus already know that there are no new updates
< 1321568151 602715 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Scan seem to have a reasonable enough return policy.
< 1321568188 446406 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I ordered a replacement on Tuesday, only to discover today that my card was blocked after the original purchase.
< 1321568199 569268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, that is good at least
< 1321568204 570585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, what?
< 1321568206 282541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocked?
< 1321568208 389830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1321568237 367554 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case of fraud; the purchasing history for that card is something like £8 £8 £8 £8 £750.
< 1321568249 442985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1321568261 265121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, call the bank then?
< 1321568292 531021 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd already ordered the replacement by then, and Scan don't give a decent way to cancel the order, and it seems I ordered the last of that case in stock; elliott's absence prevents me from working around that.
< 1321568293 303624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1321568308 363916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321568312 304338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnh
< 1321568333 967538 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scan also haven't cancelled the purchase from the blocked card, so I have no idea whether it'll go through once that's cleared up.
< 1321568336 886652 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321568338 65292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that was stupid. Messed up by starting ipv6 tunnel on two computers at once
< 1321568350 640986 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best-case scenario, I get the case on Saturday.
< 1321568361 825069 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monday is not looking like an unlikely option.
< 1321568368 323971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1321568378 381561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still that is O(1)
< 1321568386 946879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at most O(n)
< 1321568395 367031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what you count
< 1321568403 44282 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that point, the motherboard, CPU and RAM will have been sitting assembled in an anti-static bag in an in-use utility room for nearly a week and my paranoia will have gone through the roof.
< 1321568452 378656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembled?
< 1321568463 988243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, don't you start with mounting the mobo in the case?
< 1321568465 86846 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugged into each other.
< 1321568467 246563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do all the other stuff
< 1321568474 795978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how I did it always
< 1321568483 405246 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes; I only realised the form factor was wrong after I'd put it all together.
< 1321568505 997164 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put it on your desk like a proper *desktop computer* and start using it until the case gets there
< 1321568581 859564 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving it assembled was basically the only option I could see at the time, particularly as I thought I'd only be waiting for a couple of days.
< 1321568727 25209 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robotfindskitten: Good game, best kitten
< 1321568828 909236 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo 'if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }') >bin/welcome
< 1321568830 918027 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321568837 457971 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321568839 814539 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321568844 447818 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome test
< 1321568846 15335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `$_=shift' \ /hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: `if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }'
< 1321568854 387343 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_now_ what
< 1321568867 720772 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course
< 1321568874 260181 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo 'if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }') >bin/welcome
< 1321568876 234885 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321568879 81746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321568880 917971 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321568884 385071 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome test
< 1321568886 882541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321568899 460919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome The Pope
< 1321568901 794701 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The: Pope: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321568905 998263 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome
< 1321568908 255434 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321568914 1193 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321569094 752826 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written by fizzie, I see.
< 1321569207 839332 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321569265 22786 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The: Pope.
< 1321569289 638916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Barack_Obama Oprah
< 1321569291 933369 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barack_Obama: Oprah: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321569299 983426 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321569302 835015 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're prepared.
< 1321569326 169581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the day when Barack Obama and Oprah simultaneously join.
< 1321569327 677964 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome CakeProphet
< 1321569329 762220 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321569495 992796 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321570520 956086 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321571178 763600 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TG: and was like shit yes i ALL KINDS of know how to use my web browser to download serveral files
< 1321571181 703894 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1321571865 661258 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought of a tooootally different way to JIT.
< 1321571868 918525 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to do magic.
< 1321572196 125528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh, how?
< 1321572237 916998 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321572239 397147 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321572334 977332 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll wait to see if it works at all first :P
< 1321572340 893658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, fair enough
< 1321572466 39074 :Sgeo|web_!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1321572530 954146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, do you think it will take long?
< 1321572541 960545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, next hour? Tomorrow? Next week?
< 1321572597 311756 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several hours.
< 1321572723 69865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh well, going to put this computer to sleep and go to bed. @tell me if it worked or not, so I know if I should bother looking through logs for how it worked.
< 1321572725 295529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1321572819 901840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321573357 23015 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if memcpy(a, NULL, 0) would consistently not segfault on all systems ...
< 1321573718 193887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :void **b=&b;
< 1321573722 421797 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :By no logic should that work.
< 1321573772 51505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this is C! you're in luck!
< 1321574744 739525 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321575508 128320 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321575958 170426 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321576107 188237 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised, I had given up on IOCCC coming back (at least for the foreseeable future)
< 1321576512 480110 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the end times, nothing to worry about.
< 1321576555 439504 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BFF2.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321577154 453092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately no one actually knows C anymore
< 1321577159 27814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the submissions will all bad bad.
< 1321577173 326605 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad bad :(
< 1321577183 454968 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, how can you possibly doubt our Gregor
< 1321577266 128594 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one knows C? eh? it's still like #1 or #2 at TIOBE
< 1321577280 327188 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU still worships it like crazy, that's for sure
< 1321577290 963845 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly Clang users (Apple), etc.
< 1321577361 875321 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-24.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321577364 136622 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-229-226.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321577501 246090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no one writes C anymore. it's all just robots that program C now.
< 1321577507 919377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1321577516 642641 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :robots?
< 1321577533 487596 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even *BSD funded PCC to get to 1.0 stage
< 1321577542 466962 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently everybody is (still) gaga over C
< 1321577559 574402 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe thinking of another language while they're compiling C     ;-)
< 1321578011 92956 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-229-226.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I anticipate C lasting at least as long as COBOL already has.
< 1321578016 7739 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-229-226.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite plausibly longer.
< 1321578135 911139 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-7.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321578275 755471 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I hear right or did C1x finish?
< 1321578308 985728 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-229-226.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321578392 995274 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the new C standard has been published yet
< 1321578427 17819 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321578603 56293 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I read somewhere that there's some weird rule that it can pass early if unanimous, and supposedly it was, so ...
< 1321578708 513832 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well
< 1321578710 909120 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321579474 209644 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321580929 271841 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321581143 891274 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321581271 688962 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-7.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321581873 230893 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321581886 947323 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's not here for me to tell em UPDATE
< 1321582095 520043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: question: do you do anything other than refresh MSPA?
< 1321582104 641473 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope!
< 1321582114 973487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk tsk
< 1321582128 54660 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pleased that CakeProphet thinks that he refreshes MSPA constnatly
< 1321582144 95735 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mspa refresh pride
< 1321582214 793408 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: EPDOOT
< 1321582266 958446 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH LOOK I'VE ALREADY SEEN IT WHAT NOW?
< 1321582292 986296 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was another update almost immediately after
< 1321582305 186791 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :epdoot
< 1321582371 168045 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My notifier went off a second time, for some reason
< 1321582386 70202 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sorry to reveal I'm not a constantly refreshing madman
< 1321582396 484965 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :notifier???
< 1321582442 585127 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: 6058 changed
< 1321583038 812048 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321583052 748055 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-184.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321584361 627962 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I'm surprised you don't read Dr Brinner: Ghost Psychiatrist.
< 1321585112 494532 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to, but I don't have the time...
< 1321585259 722901 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can barely find the time to read Mezzacotta
< 1321585334 586872 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-184.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't enough.
< 1321585391 906792 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-184.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-9999999999999-01-01 Here, begin archive binging.
< 1321585411 979976 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If people can read all of Dr. Brinner: Ghost Psychiatrist, then I can read all of Mezzacotta
< 1321585429 544841 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-184.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean literally there isn't enough time.
< 1321585439 107444 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-184.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Universe isn't old enough.
< 1321585457 802540 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Where'd you get your time machine for reading Dr. Brinner?
< 1321585510 925404 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the solution is more universes
< 1321586187 418587 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1321586793 342959 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321587981 581858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I'm just so cool I don't need one.
< 1321588059 599828 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry
< 1321588087 694263 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a time machine at 16 picokelvin
< 1321588107 146269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh so does
< 1321588109 385642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete [] array;
< 1321588115 983954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete objects in the array as well?
< 1321588121 916943 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, why is C++ so delete happy?
< 1321588130 204092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, what the fuck is wrong with my program?
< 1321588155 99969 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-184.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, that is the intended semantics of delete[];
< 1321588164 74812 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zdhvjibhdfhbsj/dev/null; then \     echo -n "$1" | sed 's/ .*/: /' \     exec $(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ else \     echo -n "$1: " \     shift \     exec "$@" \ fi \
< 1321591551 342932 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which not
< 1321591552 978005 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321591571 40262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a command that negates a return status?
< 1321591597 119654 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, there's a reason i used perl instead of sh :P
< 1321591640 850170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls
< 1321591642 683798 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
< 1321591679 814959 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run if cat wisdom/CakeProphet | grep -i hi; then echo "hi" fi
< 1321591681 726154 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
< 1321591682 286003 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-45.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if [ $? ];then false;else true;fi
< 1321591697 162849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is $?
< 1321591708 576267 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-45.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The error status of the previous command.
< 1321591714 66768 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321591716 849550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay bash
< 1321592926 719105 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes so much sense.
< 1321592929 977631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash does.
< 1321592942 55093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much sense I sometimes struggle to understand it.
< 1321593160 386719 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ! negates a return status
< 1321593205 499022 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: anywhere or just within the [] thingy
< 1321593208 558365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321593262 510398 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywhere
< 1321593323 546009 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run !echo "I don't believe you" && exit
< 1321593325 380700 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: !echo: command not found
< 1321593331 60814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run !(echo "I don't believe you") && exit
< 1321593333 194948 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe you
< 1321593342 396377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run !(echo "I don't believe you") && echo "oh right"
< 1321593344 554257 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe you
< 1321593347 631295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321593363 36524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought: "surely it could not be this simple in bash"
< 1321593364 895978 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ! echo foo && echo bar
< 1321593366 737054 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
< 1321593378 966160 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need the (), that spawns a subshell
< 1321593392 325870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right of course...
< 1321593434 232216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tempted to use perl always for bashy things.
< 1321593603 924747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so {} doesn't spawn a subshell or???
< 1321593673 138597 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2188199/bash-double-or-single-bracket-parentheses-curly-braces
< 1321593689 630655 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321593704 414814 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321593717 200179 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321593786 269203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really explain the {cmd1; cmd2; cmd3; ... } | parallel
< 1321593789 582487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing
< 1321593872 624229 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, bah, so it doesn't
< 1321593890 268191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-45.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321593899 103783 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, {} doesn't spawn a subshell
< 1321593930 694805 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321593934 476784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this usage is otherwise identical?
< 1321594042 94039 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, pretty much so, yes, I think
< 1321594070 882673 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a big enough difference that I'm not sure what you include in "otherwise identical" :-P
< 1321594101 152963 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they pretty much have the same purpose when piped and such.
< 1321594140 12252 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1321594195 308516 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both allow a sequence of commands to share the same piped input/output
< 1321594601 393964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what congress wants to censor the internet?
< 1321594629 347903 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a good way to make the internet really really angry.
< 1321594708 617484 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow amazing.
< 1321594872 340164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
< 1321594880 20462 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow they even tie it into protecting American jobs.
< 1321595134 746849 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a good way to make Google abandon ship.
< 1321595241 359507 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what happens when even Google leaves
< 1321595270 981787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sources suggest Google has packed up and moved to Greenland. It has reportedly taken its money and jobs with it."
< 1321595296 511326 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a few other tech companies join them.
< 1321595313 486589 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, Silicon Valley is in Greenland.
< 1321595324 335842 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: In other news, Greenland's population triples
< 1321595328 78876 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321595334 214447 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :And America :(s?
< 1321595375 846521 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/dr_michio_kaku_discusses_americas_secret_weapon
< 1321595408 101802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder if they'll ban youtube?
< 1321595456 6115 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that'd be a good way to secure a very very bad approval rating.
< 1321595458 852544 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtful. I think the first widespread action against Youtube would be Google going "Uh... Fuck you."
< 1321595471 596869 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Congress has a lower approval rating than communism ATM.
< 1321595477 910272 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you really cover that up propaganda?
< 1321595490 75339 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's pretty much holding up a middle finger at you.
< 1321595514 402903 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, communism, the movie villain of decades, is more popular than Congress.
< 1321595611 38740 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should switch to monarchy
< 1321595641 600395 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Dr. Michio Kaku is secretly this guy from Alpha Centauri http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s2Xyd2TRbi8/SlkqC18nSII/AAAAAAAAAAM/bx2D97B6ABs/S660/zakharovface.jpg
< 1321595699 797849 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ???
< 1321595733 121130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: play Alpha Centauri and you will know it is true.
< 1321595867 184423 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder if they'll ban youtube?
< 1321595869 346852 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321595871 418832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321595875 879078 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, depending on the method used to fix the worldsheet diffeomorphisms and conformal transformations in the original free string theory, the resulting string field theories can be very different. Using light cone gauge, yields light-cone string field theories whereas using BRST quantization, one finds covariant string field theories. There are also hybrid string field theories, known as covariantized light-cone 
< 1321595883 34565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
< 1321595930 763084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :string field theories which use elements of both light-cone and BRST gauge-fixed string field theories.
< 1321595944 566335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
< 1321595973 949838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :string string metasuperstring membrane field cone theory
< 1321596001 648652 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further testing of FTL neutrinos done. Yup, still FTL.
< 1321596082 602238 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321596117 900341 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321596306 216298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf why am I reading about string theory
< 1321596313 965184 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT BURNS.
< 1321596707 151846 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : If two theories are related by a duality transformation, it means that the first theory can be transformed in some way so that it ends up looking just like the second theory. The two theories are then said to be dual to one another under that kind of transformation. Put differently, the two theories are mathematically different descriptions of the same phenomena.
< 1321596715 141882 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help needs more category theory
< 1321596902 33622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Within the framework of the Standard-Model Extension (SME theory), various theorists have suggested that the neutrino might have a tachyonic nature,[30][31][32][33] while others have disputed the possibility.[34]
< 1321596912 739878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what now [34]!!!!
< 1321597245 345795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giacomo Cacciapaglia, a theoretical physicist at King's College London, has suggested that the neutrinos might take "shortcuts" through extra dimensions, bypassing the Cohen-Glashow effect. Jorge Páramos, a theoretical physicist at the Higher Technical Institute in Lisbon, counters that tinkering with the current theory in this way is difficult.
< 1321597316 367675 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: theoretical physicists play with existing theories that have no empirical basis.
< 1321597939 433122 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why they're called theoretical physicists, not regular physicists.
< 1321598070 598258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame it's not "hypothetical physicists".
< 1321598254 244802 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the physicists that may or may not exist.
< 1321598789 208535 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1321598868 599283 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321599096 459131 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1321599134 188628 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321599588 493044 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321602587 254463 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321602997 336418 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321602997 421664 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321602997 421815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321603919 100136 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321604048 824767 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321605198 453678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321605664 79969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321606471 766774 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321606540 662242 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321606551 816512 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321606565 317152 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321606725 203766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321608579 334914 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1321608736 704861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm at what?
< 1321608988 174359 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm at Vorpal's hm.
< 1321609017 65105 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The one a bit less than hour ago.)
< 1321609761 653241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You're dismissing the efficacy of tin foil hats because you've only tried using aluminum foil - they need real tin to work right.
< 1321609765 626922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve of this theory
< 1321610422 654198 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a few papers on foil hats; like http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/ from MIT, and a rebuttal for it at http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200511112730.afdb_effectiveness
< 1321612745 49694 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AE3D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321614415 189133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hm at Vorpal's hm. <-- that was just to check for lambdabot messages
< 1321614787 482861 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1321615343 329376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321616660 421874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321619491 625666 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm thinking my best bet with my JIT's target language would be to choose some machine code.
< 1321619493 778337 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But which ...
< 1321619798 923584 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ... some kind of bytecode?
< 1321619899 350933 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang it, a stack-based language would be perfect but Forth is so done :P
< 1321619967 303689 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1321620711 737635 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321620828 624349 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321621545 162155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321621673 795288 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Suggest a language for my JIT to ... well, JIT.
< 1321621703 943098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how simple?
< 1321621722 689462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say Unlambda, but it's a bitch to compile into imperative code
< 1321621760 341138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, what's up with the vandalism on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Excela?
< 1321621770 261327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 22 seconds.
< 1321621782 215393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ridiculous part: this connection in the University library is actually /better/ than the one in my office
< 1321621811 578828 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Current target is BF. I want something more interesting.
< 1321621824 198407 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much has to be imperative.
< 1321621850 671797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple?
< 1321621899 226916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have to make the stacks finite, but otherwise there don't seem to be any issues with it other than parsing
< 1321621914 601069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know you know the language
< 1321622046 870245 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something with literals, to make it more of a challenge.
< 1321622254 638900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321622260 599266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321622264 529754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:15]  INTERCAL-72?
< 1321622267 749236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:15]  probably a bit too large
< 1321622278 589464 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ow X-D
< 1321622310 257707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-72 would /really/ benefit from JITting
< 1321622313 496372 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In spite of asking in #esoteric , I was also hoping for something a bit more ... real :P
< 1321622363 5440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how many simple real languages there are
< 1321622370 300968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Lisp variant without closures, perhaps
< 1321622431 868567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what about BASIC?
< 1321622550 493878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1321622687 713351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321622730 991665 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI-BASIC, the best BASIC.
< 1321622883 831203 :ais523_!93bcf89d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.248.157 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321622896 357302 :ais523_!93bcf89d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.248.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: serious suggestion: BASIC
< 1321622931 856246 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-serious suggestion: dc.
< 1321623000 584577 :ais523_!93bcf89d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.248.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc's concatenative, not imperative, right?
< 1321623077 36662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1321623172 755122 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Sure, but  Dang it, a stack-based language would be perfect but Forth is so done :P
< 1321623185 667502 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the next best thing.
< 1321624427 226136 :ais523_!93bcf89d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.248.157 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1321624439 349657 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, OK, and which concatenative language is non-imperative? As far as I'm concerned, imperative is a parent group of concatenative ...
< 1321624458 483743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only big problem with dc is bignum :P
< 1321624767 670710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concatenative works fine functionally.
< 1321624806 621473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All commands are of type Stack -> Stack and . is replaced with space.
< 1321624812 93919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *all functions
< 1321624843 454146 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soooo all the world's a monad.
< 1321624857 15584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional does not mean Haskell.
< 1321624939 861007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that that's a very disingenuous way of describing a concatenative language X_X
< 1321624945 990848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1321625049 812869 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you kidding me? All your functions are stack->stack and you just string them together. That's like saying that C is a functional language where every statement is a function state->state.
< 1321625152 312439 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it fits better for concatenative languages.
< 1321625346 640310 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this helps me choose a language anyway :P
< 1321625352 343855 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How bad would non-bignum dc be?
< 1321625739 206842 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really feel like I want to do Forth ... frankly I'm surprised that the previous Forth entry in IOCCC /didn't/ JIT (slash compile to memory)
< 1321626723 483378 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh
< 1321626832 293730 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321626861 339700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-bignum dc wouldn't be hard at all, I should think, although I don't know much about JIT.
< 1321626886 220811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although its only control structure is an eval statement.
< 1321626987 531350 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be hard in the least, my question is whether it would suck :)
< 1321627013 627450 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages
< 1321627017 99383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1321627018 139551 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://iasos.com/artists/erial/celestial-soul-portraits/
< 1321627023 167737 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy christ this is amazing.
< 1321627090 135574 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321627325 108432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout integer dc?
< 1321627327 855321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be useless?
< 1321627339 764806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that it's the default behaviour.
< 1321627343 518225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show pi
< 1321627344 495345 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=5; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 bc -l | tr -d '\\'
< 1321627347 257595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's bc.
< 1321627360 523933 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '2 3 / p' | dc
< 1321627367 27910 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: dc: command not found
< 1321627368 695652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is; it rounds down, too.
< 1321627371 99016 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wtf
< 1321627372 605044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1321627378 375812 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something to be fixed.
< 1321627413 589552 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '2 3 / p' | dc
< 1321627415 806299 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321627420 153050 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmm
< 1321627429 282916 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, dc isn't such a terrible idea then.
< 1321627476 479384 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-123.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321627537 655511 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-125.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321627734 620777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321628052 167798 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dc. Terribad?
< 1321628086 909546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, fuck you, dc is my favourite.
< 1321628087 259790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321628100 576319 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good, then it's my JIT target :P
< 1321628121 426063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're JITting... to dc?
< 1321628127 133425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a C->dc compiler?
< 1321628127 318652 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr
< 1321628130 241530 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT source rather
< 1321628137 528293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess that works?
< 1321628145 754687 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels a bit less retarded than BF :P
< 1321628146 554432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's kind of unsuited though.
< 1321628151 692048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions are first-class by way of being strings.
< 1321628162 559549 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT is a command in my JIT :)
< 1321628828 481201 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321628880 356110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:07:29:  pikhq_: oh also
< 1321628880 479881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:07:31:  if you were sane before
< 1321628880 525414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:07:33:  http://www.usdebtclock.org/
< 1321628880 525578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:07:36:  now you're not.
< 1321628880 525677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you two stop circlejerking in the logs.
< 1321628919 302108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
< 1321628921 515684 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :721)  characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
< 1321630296 497824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.beanactuary.com/
< 1321630300 62966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bean actuary!
< 1321630301 877416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best job.
< 1321630308 523022 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321632088 226237 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: remains of the day
< 1321632210 133588 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn ... my new JITting method is sound in principle, but probably isn't going to work with even the slightest optimization >_>
< 1321632229 144290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What method is that :P
< 1321632280 800899 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEKRIT
< 1321632354 4091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you pushed it yet :P
< 1321632358 781469 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1321632917 607000 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically this: void jit(volatile struct Data *allMyDeliciousData) { record("prologue"); /* do an addition */ record("+"); /* etc */ }
< 1321632923 693674 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :record() records its return address.
< 1321632929 973945 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I use those return addresses to slice up the function.
< 1321632974 285755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why wouldn't that work?
< 1321632981 312404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need a "volatile" on record().
< 1321632985 71203 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Getting rid of the call to record itself.
< 1321632992 143522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can't be done, if it has side-effects...
< 1321632996 121449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Make it poke a volatile variable.
< 1321633017 797187 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it work, but now my JITted code is full of function calls to empty functions (which may or may not be incurably retarded)
< 1321633050 470846 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Using a volatile function pointer argument for record instead of a global function)
< 1321633150 160536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS.js (JavaScript Operating System) - The world is moving forward. [X-post from /r/linux] (anderse.wordpress.com)
< 1321633150 205888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :submitted 6 hours ago by Forconin to programming
< 1321633150 206041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THIS ON MY FRONT PAGE
< 1321633154 831165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Gregor, Lord of Javascripts.
< 1321633167 775727 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^
< 1321633170 698950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This project was originally intended for remote administration of servers without the hassle of installing a graphical environment and all the dependencies that comes along."
< 1321633179 918450 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut
< 1321633180 175573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ssh --javascript-bullshit
< 1321633191 800495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the browser doesn't count as a graphical environment with a bunch of dependencies :P
< 1321633200 243496 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"remote administration of servers [by retards]"
< 1321633205 624432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They forgot that part.
< 1321633239 683097 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm ... so far my new technique works on x86, and works then segfaults everywhere else.
< 1321633250 395277 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can just avoid my broken function epilogue by always calling exit! 8-D
< 1321633296 420175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, that doesn't work once I have other functions X-D
< 1321633312 828487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hell, for consistency you should serve it all up with node.js instead of Apache."
< 1321633315 133615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS INSUFFERABLE
< 1321633318 929663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maintain your own call-stack with CPS?
< 1321633325 465641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you never actually have to return.
< 1321633336 849813 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm
< 1321633347 749979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That needs TCO to work decently though, which you said breaks things
< 1321633349 621137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although...
< 1321633358 534223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :record("goto"); goto &&computed_label; record("endgoto");
< 1321633362 351846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You COULD hack something up with that :P
< 1321633365 35079 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, C doing TCO breaks things, me doing TCO doesn't.
< 1321633381 794864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How are you going to do TCO? That's platform-specific.
< 1321633406 868804 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same way I record return addresses, but change them >: )
< 1321633411 804113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dude, I think it kicks butt. I just logged in and was blown away by how much better it was than I expected. I CANNOT believe people are downvoting you just because you named it os.js, instead of actually appreciating it for what it is. Fuck 'em, you're awesome."
< 1321633416 925121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/R/PROGRAMMING IS THE WORST
< 1321633418 396827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow :P
< 1321633441 786260 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, works-then-segfaults on ARM >_<
< 1321633444 623740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, y'know, if you're doing TCO... a mini Lisp-alike would make a lot of sense... >:)
< 1321633448 48827 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something must be wrong with my epilogue generation.
< 1321633852 484004 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, fixed.
< 1321633906 569787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Circle-trig6.svg
< 1321633911 208557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love this diagram so much.
< 1321634065 682793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Insert link to that synchronicity diagram.
< 1321634071 25363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sch%C3%A9ma_synchronicit%C3%A9_in_English.png
< 1321634073 252960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1321634089 833108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said that the trig diagram was the *best*, though.
< 1321634120 644283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of Jung's favourite quotes on synchronicity was from Through the Looking-Glass by Lewis Carroll, in which the White Queen says to Alice: "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards".[10][11]"
< 1321634228 951894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so I need to synthesise thioacetone with acetone, hydrochloric acid and stink bombs.
< 1321634946 394637 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My new method, although still having the problem of pointless calls, works on friggin' everything X-D
< 1321634964 31496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought your previous method did too.
< 1321634968 685936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean flags don't disturb it?
< 1321635021 228194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean it just works, no need for flags in most places.
< 1321635027 867638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it works on IBM z/Series which the last one didn't :P
< 1321635049 739153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it work with... -O3 on VAX? :P
< 1321635128 922133 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't even get VAX to compile shit with -O3 :P
< 1321635131 704116 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC segfaults when I try.
< 1321635192 754947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Re empty calls: It's because the calls to the volatile function pointer are still there, right?
< 1321635201 413140 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah.
< 1321635204 552551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have an idea.
< 1321635215 589608 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remove them because they're of differing lengths depending on how it optimized loading the arguments :(
< 1321635236 365429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Take /two/ volatile function pointers; the first one is used like you use your existing one, and the second one is used BEFORE and AFTER each call. You use the calls to the latter to find out how large calls to the former are, and remove them.
< 1321635251 527858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then twiddle with things so that the calls to the second are as large as the calls to the first and remove them too)
< 1321635277 198910 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my first idea, but the "twiddle with things" id--OH BUT IT WOULD WORK HERE because it would be a void(void) function!
< 1321635283 40997 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant sir.
< 1321635284 375235 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant.
< 1321635296 291597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it would!
< 1321635298 894688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise that myself :P
< 1321635301 772275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooo
< 1321635327 732609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I can even simplify that a wee bit.
< 1321635332 24414 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the idea is very sound either way.
< 1321635334 909877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You might need to take a third, nop void(void) funptr, just to find out how large calls to that are...
< 1321635335 557658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait
< 1321635337 306587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the second
< 1321635342 432221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By special-casing the first three calls
< 1321635349 964209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As "start", "call to void(void)", "end")
< 1321635362 447525 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRGH damn it sh4.
< 1321635377 233628 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works with -O0, doesn't work with -O1, works with every flag that goes into -O1 >_<
< 1321635385 254546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321635386 608430 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321635387 748077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that even possible
< 1321635395 872646 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1321635413 377213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe some code checks optimisation level directly... like, not direct compilation stuff
< 1321635415 98928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linker optimisations?
< 1321635423 87378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe -O1 is doing linker optimisations and the flags aren't
< 1321635424 125082 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ARGH I'M AN IDIOT >_<
< 1321635430 609292 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My O0 list was my O3 list :P
< 1321635473 778136 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that seemed like a lot of optimizations for O1 >_>
< 1321635488 887846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: btw, I'd replace the long list-o'-platforms-and-flags in the hints with a link, that way the judges are less likely to elide it :P
< 1321635497 276345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it works with -O0 and -O3 but not -O1?
< 1321635506 106593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders wtf -O1 is doing.
< 1321635523 748562 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't work with -O3, but it works with all those flags that are in -O3 but not -O1.
< 1321635547 164176 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually just shortening the list a ton, it will only have special entries for those needing special flags, which will be few. It may still be worthwhile to link it ...
< 1321635581 41094 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on.
< 1321635584 586222 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time I know I got the right list.
< 1321635620 456671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just not very good at outputting the list for -O0 >_>
< 1321635733 604257 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF WTF WTF
< 1321635736 195974 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is -O1 doing???
< 1321635767 487123 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the man page's instructions for discovering what -O does >_<
< 1321635818 612994 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1321635854 220796 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321635950 16589 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, every friggin' flag.
< 1321635974 157594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not find out exactly what is broken about the -O1 asm :P
< 1321635989 438450 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because I don't speak SH4 :P
< 1321636003 582639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How hard can it be :P
< 1321636043 91680 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard enough? >_>
< 1321636059 116771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wiiiiiiimp
< 1321636068 785703 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1321636086 568987 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, on SPARC it seems to segfault before even getting to the JITting part ...
< 1321636135 156933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It works on everything, huh :P
< 1321636151 991488 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going in alphabetical order here X-P
< 1321636236 181629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Works on architectures that don't start with 'S'"
< 1321636242 851198 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on SH4!
< 1321636244 692272 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not with -O1
< 1321636256 832666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's SH-4, btw :P
< 1321636280 652605 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it works on SPARC if I put a printf in my record function X-D
< 1321636308 525836 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHH fussing with the stack.
< 1321636310 167982 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always fun.
< 1321636330 855035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just call a dummy function in record? :P
< 1321636348 142232 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I am! (Problem is that dummy functions tend to get inlined, but I'm sure I can find somethin')
< 1321636360 16176 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably something is stackweird if it's a leaf *shrugs*
< 1321636376 621062 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you discussing IOCCC entry?
< 1321636403 758583 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, y'know, it only works if it's printf.
< 1321636405 675975 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yeah.
< 1321636405 988402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That I am! (Problem is that dummy functions tend to get inlined, but I'm sure I can find somethin')
< 1321636417 801388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: volatile __attribute__((noinline)) :P
< 1321636425 566493 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No GCC-specifics.
< 1321636498 996826 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bigger problem though is that it only works if it's printf X-D
< 1321636542 625445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not even puts?
< 1321636550 358091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe it's about what you pass to printf.
< 1321636556 193345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe you're forcing something from a register to the stack.
< 1321636561 572612 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, puts works.
< 1321636571 726583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: fputs("",stdout)
< 1321636576 115985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% side-effect free
< 1321636591 170870 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No go.
< 1321636599 799258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe it needs to make a syscall
< 1321636601 901050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :putchar('.')?
< 1321636624 847805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except wait, stdio is buffered ???
< 1321636631 232563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet putchar('.') fails
< 1321636635 881036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no syscalls because buffering
< 1321636747 793259 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321636868 443066 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!?!?
< 1321636868 974289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1321636873 817419 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :putchar made it go CRAAAAAAAZY
< 1321636895 973827 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the return address on SPARC is strictly the return address ...
< 1321636925 361638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As opposed to "return to here+4" or something)
< 1321636993 489129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit ais where are you when I'm being paranoid.
< 1321637266 108240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321637347 296439 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: since instructions are word-sized on sparc there would be no problem with preincrementing the instruction pointer
< 1321637381 41648 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But that would be SPARC-specific.
< 1321637411 265812 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe it has delay slots (but I think that was MIPS rather than SPARC)
< 1321637427 741115 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both.
< 1321637430 308754 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But delay slots are fine.
< 1321637541 169144 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321637542 891659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick
< 1321637548 393067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does "Iason" decline?
< 1321637682 506573 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slowly.
< 1321637813 596395 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what declension it is of course
< 1321638527 887615 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third, I think
< 1321638539 194376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masculine
< 1321638546 733567 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singular only
< 1321639097 90734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google competing with PNG... I guess they don't aim low these days :P
< 1321639118 133891 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG the image format!?
< 1321639121 746447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321639133 739563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :28% smaller than recompressed PNGs, supposedly.
< 1321639175 388533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you can encode all channels except the alpha lossily, and just have lossless alpha... that's a neat trick.
< 1321639245 933186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link?
< 1321639281 212534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.chromium.org/2011/11/lossless-and-transparency-encoding-in.html
< 1321639339 349212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also http://code.google.com/speed/webp/gallery2.html.
< 1321639517 71829 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION circlejerks furious
< 1321639530 75200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1321639647 908915 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321639991 674696 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assume that the 28% figure was with strictly-lossless?
< 1321640080 281364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah.
< 1321640112 907709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321640121 164588 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. I wonder how well you'd do if you just took libpng and swapped out zlib for LZMA. (Ignoring speed)
< 1321640222 567637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Probably vastly better :P
< 1321640240 797925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But not only speed would be the problem, imagine how much RAM your browser would hog up...
< 1321640253 822216 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1321640254 333371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially phones would be fucked.
< 1321640278 150558 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for ultimate portability, we'll reimplement LZMAPNG in JavaScript.
< 1321640282 814207 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do the image decoding in-VM.
< 1321640303 636722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Small code size and relatively low memory overhead, particularly with smaller dictionary lengths, and free source code make the LZMA decompression algorithm well-suited to embedded applications."
< 1321640308 917546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, are Wikipedia on crack?
< 1321640316 865047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure LZMA decoding sucks compared to gzip decoding :P
< 1321640327 695655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That'll be SO FAST
< 1321640334 530434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Decompess to a data: URI.
< 1321640352 312087 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is itself a PNG :)
< 1321640397 375120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nahh, BMP, so you can load incrementally by just appending strings
< 1321640421 487183 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321640506 896627 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO my new system doesn't work on VAX either :'(
< 1321640509 905298 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new system SUCKS
< 1321640526 458664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, tanenbaum won't admit linux has won
< 1321640540 390817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not...
< 1321640540 436190 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321640546 621889 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Donno yet, debuggling.
< 1321640552 710118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "?"?
< 1321640572 420774 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : lol, tanenbaum won't admit linux has won
< 1321640596 364988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1321640601 210524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinuxFr.org : If you could return in the past to change the MINIX original proprietary licence to the GPL licence, do you think your system might have become the dominant free OS today?
< 1321640601 429791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew Tanenbaum : Never. The reason MINIX 3 didn't dominate the world has to do with one mistake I made about 1992. At that time I thought BSD was going to take over the world. It was a mature and stable system. I didn't see any point in competing with it, so I focused MINIX on education. Four of the BSD guys had just formed a company to sell BSD commercially. They even had a nice phone number: 1-800-ITS-UNIX. That phone number did them and me in
< 1321640601 496235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. AT&T sued them over the phone number and the lawsuit took 3 years to settle. That was precisely the period Linux was launched and BSD was frozen due to the lawsuit. By the time it was settled, Linux had taken off. My mistake was not to realize the lawsuit would take so long and cripple BSD. If AT&T had not brought suit (or better yet, bought BSDI), Linux would never have become popular at all and BSD would dominate the world.
< 1321640605 328146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now as we are starting to go commercial, we are realizing the value of the BSD license. Many companies refuse to make major investments in modifying Linux to suit their needs if they have to give the code to their competitors. We think that the BSD license alone will be a great help to us, as well as the small size, reliability, and modularity.
< 1321640610 290998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinuxFr.org : Yet we see the contributions of numerous companies during each development cycles of the Linux kernel (Intel, IBM, Novell, Google, Oracle, Broadcom, Samsung, TI, Freescale, Fujitsu, etc).
< 1321640613 266583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew Tanenbaum : Clearly some companies are willing to do this but I also know of quite a few companies that refuse to use Linux for this reason. It depends on the company and whether it feels its contribution would help its competitors. Also it is easy to overestimate what companies have contributed. Usually it is things that benefit them directly, like making sure their drivers and programs work on Linux.
< 1321640618 367700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1321640620 214232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinuxFr.org : Do you think the Linux success is a proof he was right or is it unrelated?
< 1321640622 112090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew Tanenbaum : No, Linux "succeeded" because BSD was frozen out of the market by AT&T at a crucial time. That's just dumb luck. Also, success is relative. I run a political website that ordinary people read. On that site statistics show that about 5% is Linux, 30% is Macintosh (which is BSD inside) and the rest is Windows. These are ordinary people, not computer geeks. I don't think of 5% as that big a success story.
< 1321640626 906652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinuxFr.org : So you don't think the so-called "fairness" of the GPL ("your improvements need to be available the same way the original is available"), the bazaar model and a great project leader triggered the contributions to the Linux kernel? For you it's only dumb luck?
< 1321640631 295126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew Tanenbaum : Yes, I think Linux succeeded against BSD, which was a stable mature system at the time simply because BSDI got stuck in a lawsuit and was effectively stopped for several years.
< 1321640634 354335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amazing :P
< 1321640747 83468 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an entirely unreasonable argument, really, although his success comparison with Mac being "BSD inside" is a bit silly.
< 1321640775 300449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was giving him the benefit of the doubt until "lol only 5% of the visitors to my website use linux qed"
< 1321640778 409591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nerds"
< 1321640795 794079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But wait, MINIX is definitely winning, people just aren't telling anyone else about it:
< 1321640797 4422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinuxFr.org : Since 2005, MINIX 3 has been designed to be an OS for resource-limited and embedded computers and no more as a teaching tool only. Is MINIX being taken up in industry at present?
< 1321640797 49980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew Tanenbaum : In truth, one of the problems with the BSD license is that I don't know. Companies using it don't have to tell us anything. My experience is that a lot of companies don't like to talk about what technology they are using. But we are starting to make a real effort in embedded systems now.
< 1321640811 333894 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321640857 719030 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEWSFLASH: Companies everywhere use MINIX! When asked why, unanimously they were quoted as saying "Because FUCK TORVALDS and FUCK STALLMAN, THAT'S WHY!"
< 1321640885 974995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, it's 'cuz their lawyers don't let them use ANY GPL'D SOFTWARE WHATSOEVER
< 1321640888 620569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO MODIFY IT
< 1321640908 110801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Their legal team was quoted as saying "AAARGH GET THE COOTIES OFF OUR SERVERS"
< 1321640918 113954 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321640925 75844 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like something Microsfot would say.
< 1321641150 933226 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much GPL software is in a standard MINIX system.
< 1321641157 26530 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MINIX 3)
< 1321641160 645851 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bet: More than none.
< 1321641366 52601 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is the return address on VAX ... two bytes beyond where you return to ...
< 1321641411 343266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: After you call record(), examine the (now garbage) piece of stack that its return value was on and compare to the IP?
< 1321641415 915366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be tricky to do portably :P
< 1321641428 235046 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't compare to the IP.
< 1321641429 531736 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is C.
< 1321641458 614143 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm gonna have to switch back to my old solution :(
< 1321641461 829552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Call record() at the very top of the function
< 1321641464 859977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Compare to the address of the function
< 1321641473 388684 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hello, prologue?
< 1321641480 306399 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do that to find the prologue anyway.
< 1321641481 169461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, so find out how large the prologue is
< 1321641485 798209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And subtract that from the return value
< 1321641486 5476 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321641488 713092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return blah
< 1321641490 810728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean
< 1321641496 460195 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO!
< 1321641512 379702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321641515 547925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of course that means you have to detect the prologue in some other way, but... here's an idea
< 1321641522 613625 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh thank god.
< 1321641524 212073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just scan the function code for the address of record.
< 1321641525 220214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The return address is right.
< 1321641529 655185 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the bug is elsewhere.
< 1321641530 97653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just need to know how long "CALL" is.
< 1321641531 241387 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how goes IOCCC?
< 1321641539 891155 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: My new version is either better or worse.
< 1321641562 180368 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that comic my dad reads from time to time!
< 1321641574 618483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What WAS your old version?
< 1321641579 56595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321641591 709361 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The version you've seen...
< 1321641605 946258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have no idea how it actually JITted :P
< 1321641609 624573 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh X-D
< 1321641633 565900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had a separate function per each template, detected the absolute minimum prologue/epilogue, then copied out the appropriate parts from each function.
< 1321641640 99322 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was very sensitive to varying pro/epilogues.
< 1321641646 314080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1321641756 30408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321641845 955417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship aneurysm.
< 1321642061 306741 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me not to read tvtropes stuff about homestuck anymore.
< 1321642064 567588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a genuine waste of time.
< 1321642465 295275 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: dude so what if you like JIT from the future.
< 1321642476 293518 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to compile the program sometime in the future.
< 1321642526 125893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no you'd want to JIT in the future
< 1321642531 844154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your future-JIT can take as much time as it wants
< 1321642543 414889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the present-JIT will just grab code from the future.
< 1321642552 641440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all totally feasible in Feather, I imagine.
< 1321642600 870521 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hm, VAX is definitely doing something skwonky with return addresses ...
< 1321642622 922049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just google, man, VAX's insanities will be well-documented.
< 1321642630 676172 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tryin'!
< 1321642903 249243 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111111:42455
< 1321642903 428610 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111112:111112
< 1321642903 497907 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111113:1
< 1321642903 543417 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111121:8
< 1321642903 543571 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111122:1
< 1321642903 760910 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111123:1
< 1321642920 568974 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literals and the calculated size for the code to generate that literal.
< 1321642922 50366 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm numbers
< 1321642956 822496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...111112 bytes to generate 111112?
< 1321642966 666403 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shocking, innit!
< 1321642980 590666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But... isn't that just a mov...
< 1321642999 752445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's certainly not 111112 bytes worth of bullshit X-D
< 1321643045 86895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SURE???
< 1321643069 480300 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite :P
< 1321643082 380264 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ...
< 1321643086 166588 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured out what's going on X-D
< 1321643100 601225 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All my literals are in the same range as valid addresses X-D
< 1321643116 862238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the heuristic for determining whether it's an address or not goes all shitty.
< 1321643171 576953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..gross
< 1321643238 694597 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still really confused why 111112 requires 111112 bytes to generate...
< 1321643272 712341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while other increments of previous numbers take 1 or whatever.
< 1321643277 728486 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, it was the heuristic that was wrong.
< 1321643290 737759 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. :)
< 1321643318 434646 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :VAX can only generate the value 111112 by incrementing 0 111112 times, not by generating 111111 and incrementing it.
< 1321643332 905983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mind blows.
< 1321643361 980412 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111111:80
< 1321643362 156667 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111112:0
< 1321643362 202949 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111113:0
< 1321643362 248264 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111121:0
< 1321643362 248444 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111122:0
< 1321643364 582944 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gettin' better :P
< 1321643395 343093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, unless generating a number n requires that you generate n-1 and then increment, and generating 0 is the base case.
< 1321643400 621271 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then those two statements are equivalent. :>
< 1321643471 481415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway that sounds really dumb.
< 1321643486 203879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you shouldn't use VAX
< 1321643506 585125 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm improving my heuristic :P
< 1321643510 121448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with arguing with idiots on reddit for fun is that you have to deal with idiots on reddit.
< 1321643513 980841 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya never know, this may be what was broken on SPARC too.
< 1321643538 488234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought you would have figured that out earlier. :P
< 1321643564 820510 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111111:80
< 1321643564 997548 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111112:1
< 1321643565 65783 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111113:3
< 1321643565 111105 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111121:60
< 1321643567 974147 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU VAXY PIECE OF GARBAGE
< 1321643578 121036 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there so many ambiguous constants in my stack :'(
< 1321643596 324068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough popping
< 1321643602 951538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pop things then there won't be anything at all
< 1321643605 887841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is awesome logic
< 1321643657 246513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"APA stands for Associative Processing Array, a kind of content-addressable memory. Just memory. How do you compute using just memory? The operations are done right there, near the cells where your bits are kept. No need to read your data word by word into a processor, than write it back - rather, your operations run in parallel, inside the memory, on every data word! SIMD operations on steroids."
< 1321643673 559758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not pad out the constants?
< 1321643678 863232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push all-0s, push value, push all-0s
< 1321643680 65260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something
< 1321643695 921178 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This - is - C
< 1321643711 219795 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111111:80
< 1321643711 394044 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111112:68852
< 1321643711 465100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111113:80
< 1321643711 741445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111121:80
< 1321643713 728662 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111122:80
< 1321643715 744873 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : // Gettin' closer X-D
< 1321643733 844126 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the operations are GONE RIGHT THERE?
< 1321643735 495945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating.
< 1321643740 402574 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/GONE/DONE/
< 1321643749 102503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So?
< 1321643755 435558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: f(0, value, 0)
< 1321643761 66978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a contiguous stack...
< 1321643782 754880 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :contiguous. stack? ha ha ha ha
< 1321643791 184915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Remember that anything I do at detection time, I do at runtime.
< 1321643796 898158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how CakeProphet just says stupid things all day.
< 1321643805 644541 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321643806 452570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can erase arbitrary code sections with your void(void) funptr...
< 1321643824 323053 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't tested that yet :P
< 1321643837 751062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There we go then! No complaint :)
< 1321643863 701461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how are the operations done right there?
< 1321643866 966619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WE"""W""W"E"E"E
< 1321643867 336724 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :R""W
< 1321643880 716839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321643918 594540 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1321643933 41082 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, can I seriously have the return address at a different point on the stack depending on what literal I'm pushing X-D
< 1321643945 353243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you go about extending Haskell so that :: could be defined within Haskell as a normal operator?
< 1321644019 490422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean (x::T) evaluating to x but with type T?
< 1321644024 414948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't use operators as declarations, that's nonsense.
< 1321644024 713238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321644036 745844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in vanilla Haskell,  no.
< 1321644038 20494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well that's easy-ish...
< 1321644050 595089 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question was to create a hypothetical extension in which you could do things like that.
< 1321644067 599166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Uh, so do you want the first thing I said, or do you want the second thing I said?
< 1321644070 37312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are contradicting yourself.
< 1321644087 64731 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :damocles
< 1321644090 93947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm not...
< 1321644097 68094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, you are.
< 1321644099 915638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You mean (x::T) evaluating to x but with type T?
< 1321644101 555449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes
< 1321644102 890443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't use operators as declarations, that's nonsense.
< 1321644105 844753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the question was to create a hypothetical extension in which you could do things like that.
< 1321644117 13098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You either want the first thing I said, or the second; first answer implies first, second answer implies second.
< 1321644133 426101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol, I can push any literal but 1.
< 1321644141 564498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just push 2 and subtract 1 :)
< 1321644159 58078 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I subtract 1 with no 1! ;)
< 1321644183 378172 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um?
< 1321644189 350285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Push 3 and subtract 2
< 1321644209 826920 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd rather figure out wtf is going on thank you very much.
< 1321644216 307204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No this is the best.
< 1321644223 115994 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321644253 215160 :damocles!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321644286 482946 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push 2, dup, div
< 1321644304 878202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose :: doesn't really worklike an operator, so, yeah..
< 1321644320 837646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There are two infix uses of ::.
< 1321644327 298608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have not specified which you want to make non-primitive.
< 1321644341 856512 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, see...
< 1321644346 170412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way you worded those "two things"
< 1321644356 233533 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :made it not actually sound like you were specifying the two things.
< 1321644378 852301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one was just a question, the other was you saying it was nonsensical.
< 1321644394 898374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> anyway
< 1321644419 3907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that's used within expressions, I suppose.
< 1321644438 2127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that would be the easier one.
< 1321644494 941059 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that need a type type?
< 1321644506 781470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Dependent types make that pretty trivial.
< 1321644510 499831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Although (A :: x) is easier.
< 1321644526 666530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's (::) :: (a :: Type) -> a -> a
< 1321644530 281143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(::) _ x = x
< 1321644550 137517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can flip (::) but that messes with the quantification, but I suppose it could work.
< 1321644566 509351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(::) :: forall a. a -> (b::Type) -> (a ~ b) => a
< 1321644567 119543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1321645217 418804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321645247 65192 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha
< 1321645254 978208 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is clearing my variable.
< 1321645257 211863 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia: greater is the only bi-directional Piet command
< 1321645328 352637 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder what else you could do with a type type.
< 1321645338 843141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nothing much, without dependent typing.
< 1321645506 917881 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooooooooooool buffer overflow.
< 1321645510 526932 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the greatest C programmer.
< 1321645543 438446 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is your program still less than or equal to 140 characters?
< 1321645557 782101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: This is an unrelated program ;P
< 1321645567 144743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: My tweetable interpreter will probably be another submission.
< 1321645572 885375 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CARETH NOT
< 1321645676 804928 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweetable code. what an effective marketing strategy.
< 1321645688 141602 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a tweetable OS!
< 1321645713 143748 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well wouldja look at that, I have a working dc on VAX :P
< 1321645720 372650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies
< 1321645813 944035 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youtube supports Feather!
< 1321645849 720170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot?
< 1321645885 586555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Prototyping-New-Language-With-Haskell
< 1321645889 978195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone has taken the name Feather
< 1321646014 425432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will fade into obscurity like Mondrian and the first Numberwang
< 1321646037 660756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMBERWANG
< 1321646986 736545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Ngevd.
< 1321646990 520290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I present to you http://www.matthen.com/numberwang/
< 1321647026 382527 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-186.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321647036 315343 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-157-157.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321647055 147884 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321647061 255659 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321647161 217187 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321647163 241642 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh god
< 1321647176 626606 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: YOUR METHOD AIN'T WORKING
< 1321647232 869671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321647241 639795 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ?
< 1321647243 700063 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? is wisdom
< 1321647246 292944 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321647258 717215 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrg, most people on that page seem to be playing WordWang, but somehow they manage to hit NumberWang anyway
< 1321647286 146777 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
< 1321647472 496862 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to make a game in XML+SVG+XML Events+XSLT?
< 1321647704 322066 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321647799 589578 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PART :#esoteric
< 1321647983 487600 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dammit ais where are you when I'm being paranoid. <-- obviously reporting you to THEM
< 1321648477 954658 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Assuming a contiguous stack... <-- of spherical cows?
< 1321648507 564028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, YOUR MOVEWANG
< 1321648626 697027 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I suppose :: doesn't really worklike an operator, so, yeah.. <-- i've been thinking before that (:: T) should be a legal section, it would be useful
< 1321648648 83505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I agree, but (x ::) would be much more fun.
< 1321648656 592396 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary
< 1321648716 394476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quick, name (a -> b) -> Tagged a b
< 1321648719 159664 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then in some sense that's how System F/Core implements polymorphic values
< 1321648726 182539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so you can e.g. do "foo bitSize :: Tagged Word32 Int"...)
< 1321648733 375675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah
< 1321648755 31515 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your move
< 1321648776 850876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: -wang
< 1321648790 174085 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um there's no way to implement that, since you don't actually _have_ a b.
< 1321648809 573029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's for converting things that use (a -> b) as (Tagged a b), silly :P
< 1321648818 375779 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1321648822 289495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation is \f -> Tagged . f $ error "YOU LIED TO ME"
< 1321648845 274614 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: phantomize
< 1321648862 125516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, the game continueswang.
< 1321648863 387560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hoover :: (a -> b) -> Tagged a b
< 1321648875 367597 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY
< 1321648894 669183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your turn
< 1321648921 346675 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wang
< 1321648951 374918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, hi
< 1321648958 29828 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or tagomize (far side reference)
< 1321648958 717379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi btw
< 1321648966 228867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "btw"?
< 1321648967 953934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, argh, you continuewang to outfox me.
< 1321648982 600699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was in response to your "oh, hi"
< 1321648990 997353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to ask ais523 whether he was termcasting or not but then I realised he wasn't \unfoogy.
< 1321648991 803575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to find an even more noncommital way to say it
< 1321649009 768186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not playing right now; in fact, I'm at work, but that's just because I haven't gone home yet
< 1321649015 738045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, ais523, can motherboards dissolve in slightly humid air?
< 1321649021 976285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was with friends earlier, and it was much nearer home than work
< 1321649032 518288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: err, they're not water-soluble, as far as I know
< 1321649033 233517 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fffff, case doesn't arrive until Monday.)
< 1321649043 327881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good, good.
< 1321649063 419224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copper tracks can be damaged by humidity, but any sane motherboard manufacturer knows that and will lacquer them to prevent them being damaged like that
< 1321649082 511701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an easy way to tell if copper's been lacquered or not: if it hasn't been, it tend to be copper-coloured rather than green)
< 1321649120 911758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(transparent lacquer exists but isn't used commercially because it's more expensive than the green sort; it's pretty good for applying by hand, though)
< 1321649171 980691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK basically what I'm saying is will leaving the motherboard, CPU and RAM in an antistatic bag with the opening folded over for 6 days in a room which is occasionally used for washing up result in it exploding?
< 1321649174 870155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a chlorine atmosphere, dugh
< 1321649176 786447 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-g
< 1321649225 756619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, do you concedewang?
< 1321649228 14364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww, why would you implement an API like that
< 1321649244 152808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nah, had to empty the dishwasher
< 1321649263 896115 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your turn
< 1321649264 261264 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :application painful interface
< 1321649304 235464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it should be fine
< 1321649318 753350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll want to make sure they're dry before actually switching the thing on
< 1321649330 179226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the motherboard is exposed to humidity inside the case just as much as it is outside it
< 1321649334 644662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it relies on air for cooling
< 1321649355 656804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am seriously beginning to doubt Colloson's impartiality.
< 1321649442 800156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, playwang.
< 1321649532 327952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which API is that?
< 1321649538 215115 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you, Phantom_Hooverwang
< 1321649545 961213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this opencl binding
< 1321649559 366678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is getting ridiculouswang.
< 1321649591 719349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yourwang turn
< 1321649632 489845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tell me when they've stopped, if I'm still here? I just /ignored both of them
< 1321649644 760935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yours.
< 1321649646 696417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wang.
< 1321649662 351017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to #esowang
< 1321649670 673679 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yourswang
< 1321649682 221271 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think (x ::) could be used in normal Haskell.
< 1321649687 202165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, usefully
< 1321649689 773461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-wang
< 1321649721 695568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm goodwang at this
< 1321649733 545039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, map (x ::) [SomeTypes, GoHere]
< 1321649736 198832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (x ::)
< 1321649737 241276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)'
< 1321649739 639569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not type.
< 1321649751 566521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is the discussion about the fact that that doesn't parse?
< 1321649751 889649 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That seem non-meaningful
< 1321649752 161701 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: mewang toowang
< 1321649756 942615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1321649767 285838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a continuation of a discussion about :: as an operator
< 1321649767 448160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I confused Haskell with OCaml
< 1321649773 473885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where :: is a perfectly reasonable operator
< 1321649797 990798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am scarewangly good at this
< 1321649806 464262 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only would (x ::) not be a meaningful function, but you cannot map in that way anyways since the types don't match
< 1321649817 480964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this is what I was saying.
< 1321649826 102574 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be a meaningful function in a dependently typed language.
< 1321649854 4166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: tell me when they've stopped, if I'm still here? I just /ignored both of them
< 1321649864 176522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can check the logs yourself...
< 1321649868 444347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321649870 220430 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, maybe you could add a dependent type extension to Haskell and then add (x ::) to that extension
< 1321649873 462795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would mean actually looking at all the wanging
< 1321649874 293918 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zzo38: scroll up just a bit to get the context.
< 1321649895 680827 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (:: Int)
< 1321649896 583880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `::'
< 1321649902 879521 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1321649908 361079 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:: T) seems more useful in normal Haskell usage.
< 1321649923 758834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x :: Int -> x)
< 1321649924 743679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Illegal result type signature `Int'
< 1321649924 911477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Result signatures are no longer supported in pattern matches
< 1321649924 957036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In a lambda abstraction: \ x :: Int -> x
< 1321649931 775837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> x :: Int)
< 1321649932 920400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Int -> Int
< 1321649934 795060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1321649943 817666 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it's your turn
< 1321649946 262074 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty (`asTypeOf` (undefined :: Int))
< 1321649947 253858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Int -> Int
< 1321649963 111055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src asTypeOf
< 1321649963 571557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :asTypeOf = const
< 1321649974 137878 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so stupid.
< 1321649982 642833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it even decide numbers?
< 1321649983 240813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, asTypeOf has a type annotation in order to do its astypeofing
< 1321649985 594469 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea
< 1321649989 364254 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's your turn
< 1321649990 814346 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty asTypeOf
< 1321649991 820868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> a -> a
< 1321649993 702380 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover doesn't get the joke.
< 1321649994 744403 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yep)
< 1321650003 824263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the impl would be something like a conditional that always took the same branch, I forgot you didn't /have/ to use the inferred types
< 1321650005 310502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: correct
< 1321650043 747568 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess const sort of is a conditional that always takes the same branch. :P
< 1321650066 373807 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your turn, Phantom_Hoover
< 1321650068 49674 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, const is the church encoding of True
< 1321650077 75458 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321650077 143545 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321650077 188896 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321650077 928396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was wondering if someone would throw that in :P
< 1321650096 280628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your turn, Phantom_Hoover
< 1321650104 69546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321650118 504457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oerjan: hmm, would a language that forced you to use the most general inferred types be TC?
< 1321650126 828549 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually asTypeOf is even closer, it also has the expected type for a church encoded boolean
< 1321650128 776792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think yes, since Haskell without type signatures and type classes is TC
< 1321650144 41206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my guess would be yes, yes.
< 1321650147 988382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321650154 170174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see why it wouldn't be TC at all
< 1321650155 144401 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it
< 1321650160 395443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as I think you could write astypeof in it
< 1321650165 529526 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your turn
< 1321650188 257117 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: hi
< 1321650222 649726 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sir, sir. I think you need to calm down, sir.
< 1321650236 207917 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sir?
< 1321650246 327252 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, no wait, that's me
< 1321650250 114270 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I REFUSE
< 1321650254 187283 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: your turn, sir.
< 1321650259 211476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your turn to calm down.
< 1321650263 948722 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let asTypeOf x y = if True then x else y
< 1321650267 943147 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEEEEVEEEER
< 1321650268 645094 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-let
< 1321650280 73663 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :starlet? :P
< 1321650288 605577 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh that's actually circular, i think
< 1321650314 933724 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, time to go, see you in about a week
< 1321650324 999271 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: bye paste olsner
< 1321650333 522731 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste?
< 1321650335 317595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will say hello to fugutur you for you.
< 1321650335 927080 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your godwang turn!
< 1321650343 588852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, past
< 1321650349 965181 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm i'm not sure you could do it with just functions
< 1321650367 166102 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321650388 369406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why do you think that definition of asTypeOf above is circular? it's how I'd implement it
< 1321650390 401560 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: iff c a b = if c then a else b
< 1321650391 231198 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321650414 953051 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because as i said above, asTypeOf is the closest thing to a church encoding of True
< 1321650420 507389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1321650453 815357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just defining church-true and church-false by hand, then doing a complicated computation that returns one or the other?
< 1321650463 834999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd force the results to be the same type
< 1321650467 537557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't mean you have to construct every language the same way.
< 1321650474 282075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even have to be that complicated, it just has to look to the type system like it might return false
< 1321650482 268184 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the question is _can_ you make that
< 1321650519 840219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about (not (not true))?
< 1321650524 933510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not = flip
< 1321650532 271713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let true x y = x; let false x y = y; let nand x y = x (y false true) (y true true)
< 1321650533 316071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
< 1321650553 181389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (flip const)
< 1321650554 151847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. a -> a1 -> a
< 1321650554 932904 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well i'm saying that using True is cheating because you could not actually recode True in terms of just functions while preserving the type restriction
< 1321650557 517041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let true x y = x in let false x y = y in let nand x y = x (y false true) (y true true) in nand
< 1321650558 619099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3 t4. (t -> t -> t1) -> ((t2 -> t2 -> t2) -> (t3 -> t4 -> t3) -> t) -> t1
< 1321650607 376674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that forced a t2->t2->t2 into the middle of the expression
< 1321650609 598621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let true x y = x in let false x y = y in let nand x y = x (y false true) (y true true) in nand true
< 1321650610 566838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3. ((t1 -> t1 -> t1) -> (t2 -> t3 -> t2) -> t) -> t
< 1321650630 806045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what a terrible way to fix it
< 1321650633 404952 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so? :P
< 1321650638 701824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what type do you think (let true x y = x; let false x y = y; let nand x y = x (y false true) (y true true)) has?
< 1321650648 346515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not a very simple one
< 1321650661 255416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is no expression, where is your "in" clause?
< 1321650674 836659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more importantly, you never close any of the "let"s
< 1321650680 591451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let true x y = x; false x y = y; nand x y = x (y false true) (y true true) in nand
< 1321650680 891422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're looking at the wrong line
< 1321650681 751823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3 t4. (t -> t -> t1) -> ((t2 -> t2 -> t2) -> (t3 -> t4 -> t3) -> t) -> t1
< 1321650690 893752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'm not, I'm saying you fixed it in a ridiculous manner
< 1321650691 917630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :t let true x y = x in let false x y = y in let nand x y = x (y false true) (y true true) in nand
< 1321650710 166007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, the version without an in works just fine in OCaml
< 1321650718 967733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interp responds by telling you the name and type of everything you defined
< 1321650722 638520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the value, if it's not a function
< 1321650733 440305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> a -> a
< 1321650734 435371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude asTypeOf :: a -> a -> a
< 1321650734 531746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BufferType buf_append :: BufferOp a -> a -> a -> a
< 1321650734 577110 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude atan2 :: RealFloat a => a -> a -> a
< 1321650740 632086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: evaluating syntactic nonsense like that is not a feature
< 1321650751 212413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not nonsense
< 1321650760 508811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something that you'd write a lot in an actual program
< 1321650768 32479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't, because it isn't valid haskell
< 1321650771 184363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a program you'd typically follow it with something that /used/ the definitions
< 1321650773 930524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let" is rare in haskell, anyway
< 1321650783 549798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: similarly, int main() { is valid C
< 1321650787 333150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a REPL, that's typically going to be on a future line
< 1321650791 347837 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would they scope over?
< 1321650796 782050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which is why "let x = y" works in GHCi
< 1321650797 382712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: future lines in the same REPL
< 1321650797 820253 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in ghci, you can write let without in
< 1321650802 579450 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm i think i got it, using how lambdas are monomorphic internally
< 1321650803 906624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a do block
< 1321650819 798205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "let a = b; let c = d" is most assuredly not an expression
< 1321650825 837750 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your turn
< 1321650827 655446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was using ; as newline
< 1321650832 490277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not valid in Haskell?
< 1321650853 782991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a bit of a loaded question; I'm sure "a;b" doesn't mean "a\nb" in OCaml...
< 1321650871 614986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\id x y -> (\x y -> x) (id x) (id y)) (\x -> x)
< 1321650872 722952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. t -> t -> t
< 1321650874 849315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, no, because the layout isn't right
< 1321650878 343297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think OCaml needs anything there at all, it isn't whitespace-sensitive
< 1321650896 345643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let a = 1 let b = 2 ;;
< 1321650897 325351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm the layout is okay
< 1321650897 689108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val a : int = 1
< 1321650899 129059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val b : int = 2
< 1321650899 824444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oh wait
< 1321650908 427365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no
< 1321650910 869450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the layout doesn't work out
< 1321650911 611775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Haskell is, so you can't just write space to mean newline
< 1321650913 788417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the "let"s aren't aligned
< 1321650918 761199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do { let a = 3; let b = 4; ... }
< 1321650923 633023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly valid
< 1321650933 652323 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty do let { a = b }; let { c = d }; Just 1
< 1321650934 788861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => Maybe t
< 1321650952 538315 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty do { let a = b ; let c = d; Just 1 } -- elliott
< 1321650953 436831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `}'
< 1321650963 989592 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\c a b -> [a, b] !! fromEnum c)
< 1321650964 65051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: err, right, ofc
< 1321650964 882516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (Enum a1) => a1 -> a -> a -> a
< 1321650969 991104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t do let { a = b } ; let { c = d } ; return 1
< 1321650970 999846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t (m :: * -> *). (Num t, Monad m) => m t
< 1321650980 730734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversely:
< 1321650985 421427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do let {a = 3}; let {b = 4}
< 1321650987 54594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :   return (a+b)
< 1321650988 594498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is perfectly valid
< 1321651005 465362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all we're learning here is that ais523 doesn't know Haskell's layout rules, but this is irrelevant anyway as lambdabot isn't a REPL
< 1321651008 982181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an expression evaluator
< 1321651016 507257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: using !! there is cheating, I think, but the same idea can be done without it, I Think
< 1321651019 364978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think
< 1321651042 936468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you can't construct lists like that with the lambda calculus
< 1321651057 143911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b -> case [a,b] of [x,_] = x; otherwise = x
< 1321651058 343165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `='
< 1321651060 553694 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm, why did the topic suddenly switch to lambda calculus?
< 1321651063 836271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b -> case [a,b] of [x,_] -> x; otherwise -> x
< 1321651064 787849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr -> Expr -> Expr
< 1321651067 728122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was always the topic
< 1321651078 246409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "can you write asTypeOf with functions and no explicit type declarations in Haskell"
< 1321651078 630822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so that's a solution abusing the type of cons
< 1321651080 319072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 also doesn't know how scoping works
< 1321651082 24109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b -> case [a,b] of [x,_] -> x; otherwise -> a
< 1321651082 994216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. t -> t -> t
< 1321651085 632348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant
< 1321651093 766998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not scoping, just a thinko
< 1321651097 512886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a pretty funny one
< 1321651112 170336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the original question anyway.
< 1321651115 113180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually flip astypeof, but I don't care
< 1321651118 406215 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, lists are not functions
< 1321651133 397395 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo "ais523: wiki spam"
< 1321651134 597262 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, i did it above
< 1321651135 143362 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"ais523: wiki spam"
< 1321651138 19390 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\id x y -> (\x y -> x) (id x) (id y)) (\x -> x)
< 1321651139 102604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. t -> t -> t
< 1321651150 60539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didn't see you do that
< 1321651157 125948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't work in lambda calculus though :P
< 1321651174 487381 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it works in lambda calculus with the hindley-milner type system
< 1321651174 724731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, which lambda calculus are we even talking about?
< 1321651180 215961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nonsense question in untyped LC ofc
< 1321651186 348857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that is Haskell.
< 1321651186 640789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STLC seems like the interesting one here
< 1321651188 575985 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the one which requires let for polymorphism
< 1321651194 913400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /is/ up with the excela spambots?
< 1321651204 107278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to be running articles through babelfish twice or something
< 1321651206 800363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best Numberwang.
< 1321651214 642412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they love excela
< 1321651220 616999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you might as well just give in now, you won't top that one.
< 1321651233 322165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what is that language?
< 1321651238 366401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to allow embedded Ruby, at least
< 1321651244 973505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at least"
< 1321651251 726358 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you're rightwang
< 1321651259 330156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's obviously not identical to Ruby
< 1321651262 83452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Cobol_on_Cogs; delete for offtopic
< 1321651262 593424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it's incredibly similar
< 1321651274 803245 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but we have equal score, call it a tie?
< 1321651281 618527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeswang.
< 1321651292 746913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you think of Smjg's comment on the talk page?
< 1321651298 656539 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML on your mom    OH SNAP
< 1321651299 995868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tell ais523 to unblock us
< 1321651303 263894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's misinterpreting mine
< 1321651316 630887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "misinterpreting mine"?
< 1321651323 240134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1321651323 516295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my comment on the talk page
< 1321651332 535338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too, but am not sure of the relevance
< 1321651395 755851 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are joking about cobol on cogs, of course.
< 1321651411 443712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321651431 869433 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way that's not esoteric :P
< 1321651441 318266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C on Crack. Perl on Propellers. Scheme on Speed. Python on Poop. C# on This. Is. Stupid.
< 1321651479 973209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pls no promotion of the "anything unserious is esoteric" meme :(
< 1321651486 45816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what got us LOLCODE
< 1321651503 216951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION promotes with the swatter -----###
< 1321651523 250930 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs are all about the THEORETICAL AWESOME of course.
< 1321651527 865323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think lolcode is esoteric
< 1321651534 875290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a thematic language; it's uninteresting semantically
< 1321651541 513441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it fits the requirements to be an esolang
< 1321651548 131060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is an esolang
< 1321651557 580037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Cobol_on_Cogs#Off-topic
< 1321651561 284570 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty much just an OO stack machine with weird syntax.
< 1321651570 158168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can wait for someone else to express an opinion, I suppose :P
< 1321651574 991320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll wait for other comments, like usual
< 1321651579 451718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how many OO stack machines are there?
< 1321651589 206084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of Python.
< 1321651612 353089 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321651617 849564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the leading implementation of Python
< 1321651620 349921 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like stuck machine *HACK* *COUGH* *WHEEZE*
< 1321651623 123550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not python itself I guess.
< 1321651688 992253 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get stuck by putting stock in stack machines, stick to stg
< 1321651705 768939 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that has a stack. strike that.
< 1321651903 203699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackless spineless tagless g-machine
< 1321651908 716969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
< 1321651911 150997 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World!
< 1321651924 664982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1321651926 143387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world
< 1321651929 869195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are any processors with a cactus stack.
< 1321652032 821239 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet another spam
< 1321652041 786423 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321652072 254330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!<2><2>(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
< 1321652072 691983 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1321652137 732923 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321652139 644656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321652508 70075 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made ligatures work in the Haskell program for DVI processing
< 1321652519 187548 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321652538 495910 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!n<5>=t<1>=/ntnn1(_a)s.?(_a)m.?=nn1(_a)s.?=\t(_o)(on).?]}
< 1321652538 824299 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321652540 532871 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is not needed to read a DVI file, but kerning/ligature is useful when writing DVI files)
< 1321652542 439263 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321652554 593226 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite
< 1321652563 810555 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321652600 583121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!n<5>=t<1>=/nttn(_a)m.?=nn1(_a)s.?=\t(_o)(on).?]}
< 1321652600 984114 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321652603 667427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321652606 340330 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321652691 2734 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321652700 991249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-123.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321652817 320987 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!n<5>=t<1>=/nttn(_a)m.?=nn<1>(_a)s.?=\t(_o)(on).?]}
< 1321652817 666120 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321652819 985238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321652837 791212 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: help make my factorial work.
< 1321652863 373952 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, Children in Need is on.
< 1321652874 642008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone distract me before I start wanting to kick babies.
< 1321652888 609830 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's Wordwang!
< 1321652986 698977 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quaternionwang!
< 1321653278 176925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<5>=(_t)<1>=/(_n)(_t)(_t)(_n)(_a)m.?=(_n)(_n)<1>(_a)s.?=\(_t)(_o)(on).?]}
< 1321653278 554597 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1321653281 777715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsjentkjwerkhsdkfhwert
< 1321653411 130138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321653454 275343 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<5>=(_t)<1>=/(_n)(_t)(_t)*(_n)*(_a)m.?=(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\(_t)*(_o)(on).?]}
< 1321653454 669114 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :120
< 1321653458 185692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaay
< 1321653647 914458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Homeomorphic to a 3-sphere." — Minecraft title screen text.
< 1321653667 777833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip, Notch: if you're going to make glib little references to maths, *get them right*.
< 1321653697 863647 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you assume that most people actually care that it's correct.
< 1321653713 82255 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover totally said that.
< 1321653735 210311 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I assume that you assume that most people actually care that it's correct.
< 1321653797 756842 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, does minecraft have a point at infinity?  if so it could be right :P
< 1321653809 429235 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm there's that height limit
< 1321653821 455343 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not likely
< 1321653841 464442 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's infinite in two dimensions and finite in one
< 1321653871 693869 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But IF YOU'D HELP ME WITH MY PLANETARY MODEL, I think an Elliottcraft planet would be a 3-sphere
< 1321653873 406058 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :homeomorphic to a 3-ball then, probably.  assuming open.
< 1321653880 752912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'infinite'.
< 1321653890 532947 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's infinite in intention and in practice.
< 1321653891 754561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you assume he is referring to the topological space of the minecraft world.
< 1321653893 500331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how foolish.
< 1321653908 529446 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because homeomorphism is a topological thing.
< 1321653935 460179 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When will you realise that CakeProphet just says dumb things as his special version of a "joke".
< 1321653960 388789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that wasn't a joke.
< 1321653964 15576 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i don't see planets as being 3-spheres, really
< 1321653975 535720 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they're infinite in three dimensions
< 1321653981 800310 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Elliottcraft space travel involves moving in the fourth :P
< 1321653985 1883 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's not a 3-sphere.
< 1321653991 281576 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm.
< 1321654004 606276 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, oops.
< 1321654009 395974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you realise that you're recreating Madoka-Kaname's stupid realm system.
< 1321654013 574826 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :R^3 + a point at infinity
< 1321654018 501566 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not really?
< 1321654030 104508 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The idea is proper space, but I don't really feel like sacrificing infinite worlds.
< 1321654047 64144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1321654047 718599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321654053 431048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you made the point at infinity
< 1321654058 712381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the access point
< 1321654064 186667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This makes literally no sense.)
< 1321654071 385572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was saying that "homeomorphic to a 3-sphere" doesn't imply that he's specifically referring to the shape of the minecraft world, or well, anything. Especially considering the tongue-in-cheek nature of those title things.
< 1321654072 445084 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sacrificing infinite worlds should be the goal of any respectable galactic overlord
< 1321654153 158468 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321654176 422647 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What if you could get four-dimensional TNT so you could blow up an entire planet with just one block's worth of damage.
< 1321654192 710886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know?
< 1321654304 59215 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321654304 135626 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321654304 181443 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321654422 675892 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gregor: "Danger Mouse co-creator Mark Hall dies after battle with cancer" ;______;
< 1321654435 853040 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good here's a more reliable source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15792282
< 1321654463 952698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo?
< 1321654467 167097 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321654474 580135 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why the question mark this is the SADDEST
< 1321654515 507917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry I never really watched Danger Mouse?
< 1321654526 279081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll blame it on Except For Viewers In Scotland.
< 1321654527 547445 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your life is woefully incomplete?
< 1321654575 787590 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: but hey, I could be worse; what if I got offended by tongue-in-cheek math references
< 1321654591 587455 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 NICK :elliott
< 1321654593 637974 :elliott!elliott@95.149.230.3 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321654593 683333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321654620 894653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ACCEPT
< 1321654640 363641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: satisfactory answers to what if questions include "woah" or "dude"
< 1321654647 300471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "woah dude"
< 1321654659 404921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know how to accept silly invites.
< 1321654664 342173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/join
< 1321654664 719906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've yet to figure it out.
< 1321654673 88125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but that's not really accepting anything
< 1321654675 419181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that anyway.
< 1321654679 711121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused by these IRC customs.
< 1321654681 328988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you accept invites.
< 1321654708 573858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, because it's not exactly tongue-in-cheek?
< 1321654713 384268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that makes no sense.
< 1321654723 923631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: /join #esoteric-minecraft
< 1321654733 557057 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can just do that anyway.
< 1321654737 603516 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your invite is meaningless.
< 1321654740 943369 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is no way to accept it
< 1321654746 110065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's screaming "look how clever I am, I know what a 3-sphere is" without actually /knowing/.
< 1321654746 793451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is distinct from the normal way of joining channels.
< 1321654750 443586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: JOIN NOW.
< 1321654761 889317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I bet Notch knows what a 3-sphere is.
< 1321654762 146796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invites allow you to join invite-only channels, for one.
< 1321654777 880518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, he evidently doesn't know what either it or homeomorphism is.
< 1321654800 220511 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Gregor: "Danger Mouse co-creator Mark Hall dies after battle with cancer" ;______; <-- we should make an esolang in his memory
< 1321654805 731036 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on his tongue-in-cheek reference to them? :P
< 1321654808 356508 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced.
< 1321654846 934283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, *it's not isomorphic to the 3-sphere*.
< 1321654852 734093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even *close*.
< 1321654866 10756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP mother of Brian Joseph Burton
< 1321654890 647173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's isomorphic to R^2×[0,1] in the ideal case.
< 1321654891 135973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, co-father? I'm confused.
< 1321654893 632477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: JOIN THE FUCKING CHANNEL
< 1321654899 361192 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but uh...
< 1321654901 108079 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay nevermind
< 1321654970 225051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321655020 492276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did David R. Fuchs or Donald Knuth know about functional programming languages in designing DVI format or TeX? I am just curious.
< 1321655028 95591 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321655069 276870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's entirely possible that he knows exactly what those things are and is referring to them in an absurd manner. for other examples of Notch saying absurd things see: many other title thingies.
< 1321655084 568231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fact that his possibly absurd title thingy uses the terminology incorrectly does not mean that he doesn't know what they are.
< 1321655095 26657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You don't actually play Minecraft, do you?
< 1321655099 806432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that he has instead successfully pulled someone's strings.
< 1321655101 689156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope
< 1321655102 925405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can assure you that Notch has no idea what he's talking about.
< 1321655111 555522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that the 3-sphere remark will be taken from someone else telling him it is.
< 1321655138 723958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you /know/?
< 1321655138 933003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now join the fucking channel
< 1321655148 552030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :epistemology time
< 1321655215 347047 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I refuse to concede to the demands of ruthless channel despots.
< 1321655221 643449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join or die.
< 1321655256 88907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not the catholic church / expanding Islamic empire / etc
< 1321655306 885835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expanding Islamic empire?
< 1321655315 669295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321655336 332710 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any particular Islamic empire?
< 1321655343 367497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the Umayyad Caliphate? I dunno they probably did that in the Orthodox Caliphate too.
< 1321655363 434993 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one, that was the empire, that was islamic, back in the day, with the caliphates.
< 1321655389 330557 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ottoman?
< 1321655391 746546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321655430 261099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could explain it, or I could just link this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_empire
< 1321655473 412067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is a pretty ambiguous term...
< 1321655507 294421 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die.
< 1321655518 156715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that empire is the one I was referring to.
< 1321655567 991666 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot.
< 1321655574 878066 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :yorrick
< 1321655580 953131 :yorrick!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Ngevd
< 1321655582 533486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...]  i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot.
< 1321655584 574134 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :722)  but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...]  i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot.
< 1321655589 10798 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, for monotheists yes
< 1321655589 991048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :yorrick
< 1321655596 982575 :yorrick!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Ngevd
< 1321655606 330219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that they were not so merciful to polytheists.
< 1321655618 91947 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there was that dhimmi distinction
< 1321655737 467507 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321655746 327426 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could've sworn it was something like "convert to Abrahamic monotheism or die, convert to Islam or pay taxes"
< 1321655830 476358 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the zoroastrians were accepted as well, in iran
< 1321655868 178180 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they'd have a bit of trouble trying to kill them off; that was kinda *the* religion of Iran.
< 1321656001 913169 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321656040 405704 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome tica_chan
< 1321656043 64438 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tica_chan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321656050 652171 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi !
< 1321656078 346097 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321656109 342980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you?
< 1321656118 14418 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine and you  ?
< 1321656123 422575 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net TOPIC #esoteric :!
< 1321656135 481656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not mean to change the topic
< 1321656137 170460 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um...
< 1321656142 577562 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely sure how it happened
< 1321656146 935127 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1321656166 259706 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | Even a dog can learn these cat training techniques | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321656169 774861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wtf is `welcome and why does it exist
< 1321656179 749644 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO
< 1321656182 454493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's `@ person ? welcome :P
< 1321656190 770517 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it accepts more than one person
< 1321656198 142959 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ths is `welcome
< 1321656203 641562 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcoem elliott
< 1321656205 77218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would go in @, not a specific command...
< 1321656205 665574 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcoem: not found
< 1321656205 910093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/welcome
< 1321656207 233564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no one could remember the syntax :P
< 1321656207 878771 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/welcome
< 1321656214 128375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew
< 1321656217 1589 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it calls @ inside
< 1321656220 392247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/welcome
< 1321656222 729472 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321656222 774780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: elliott doesn't like people installing shortcuts to other commands on HackEgo
< 1321656226 285820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason.
< 1321656227 211907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's about 5000 times more complicated than it needs to be :P
< 1321656228 892238 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321656229 856298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tica_chan, we're a bunch of geeks
< 1321656236 45290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nerds
< 1321656239 993457 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow. I see that x)
< 1321656243 413958 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i said it accepts a list of nicks
< 1321656243 728336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But comparatively few dorks!
< 1321656250 597446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, it still is
< 1321656258 760796 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1321656283 260470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: official resident HackEgo despot.
< 1321656287 935559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ $# -e 0 ]; then exec ? "$@"; else name=$1; shift; exec @ "$name" welcome "$@"; fi
< 1321656323 749136 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... geeks and nerds make me afraid... I think I'll escape
< 1321656341 741633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tica_chan: (if you want the other kind of esoteric, see #Philosophy)
< 1321656346 59653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: it's a really crappy channel
< 1321656351 517690 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol)
< 1321656361 662198 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye, geeks !
< 1321656373 164205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't know sh syntax well enough.  also welcome gets all its nick list as one argument, by HackEgo default
< 1321656379 309577 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tica_chan, no stay!
< 1321656388 153660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, well that's trivially fixable
< 1321656396 555363 :tica_chan!~tica_chan@pac33-1-82-235-250-89.fbx.proxad.net PART :#esoteric
< 1321656400 742341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrap whole thing in f () { ... }, do f "$*"
< 1321656415 137827 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with any luck the topic fiasco will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN
< 1321656415 626969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS I'll add it
< 1321656449 353278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/welcome; echo 'if [ $# -eq 0 ]; then' >>bin/welcome
< 1321656451 154433 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321656473 428145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '    exec ? $*' >>bin/welcome
< 1321656475 76275 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321656487 750471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo else >> bin/welcome; echo '    name=$1' >>bin/welcome; echo '    shift' >>bin/welcome
< 1321656488 924259 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my (echo ...; echo ...) >... method is shorter
< 1321656489 614736 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321656512 804230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321656516 540198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck :P
< 1321656542 996624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, what was that?
< 1321656546 861754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't actually read yours, obviously >:)
< 1321656582 103355 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to put the piping outside all the echos
< 1321656594 827486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wasn't it also Perl?
< 1321656603 930597 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, no?
< 1321656610 458734 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was something that was perl.
< 1321656612 303419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh
< 1321656624 86385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I now have a cat on the arm of my chair.
< 1321656625 295281 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes.  another reason i use perl is because sh freaks me out because i never know if i get escaping right.
< 1321656655 261127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: elliott also deleted my perl scripts. SOUNDS SUSPICIOUS DOESN'T IT. ;)
< 1321656661 703378 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: AHA
< 1321656677 399587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sh freaks me out too
< 1321656684 16361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print "though he may have forgot this one"
< 1321656685 873064 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :though he may have forgot this one
< 1321656689 457322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeaaaaah
< 1321656691 198496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thankfully irc names cannot have spaces in them.
< 1321656693 472297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/runperl
< 1321656695 379427 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321656697 265080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ALREADY REMOVED THAT :(
< 1321656700 265698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "HMPH\n"
< 1321656701 134830 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMPH
< 1321656701 484080 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep
< 1321656708 577384 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, but they can have \'s, i think :P
< 1321656710 457399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/dXcP
< 1321656711 988185 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-18 22:51:51 URL:http://sprunge.us/dXcP [156] -> "dXcP" [1]
< 1321656717 922838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv dXcp bin/welcome; chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321656720 182750 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `dXcp': No such file or directory
< 1321656720 372327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but EgoBot is not HackEgo
< 1321656725 944740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv dXcP bin/welcome; chmod +x bin/welcome
< 1321656727 804278 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321656728 764984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome oerjan blah blah
< 1321656737 786690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321656738 370339 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever else confuses sh
< 1321656744 802109 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/welcome: 7: Syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting "fi")
< 1321656772 727238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321656798 86588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't terminate your if
< 1321656798 871416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321656807 206401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no.
< 1321656919 358088 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : tica_chan: (if you want the other kind of esoteric, see #Philosophy) <-- is this the official redirect now?
< 1321656945 900912 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: declarer of official things.
< 1321656946 411269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes; the trick is that it's a really terrible channel composed of two #esoteric rejects who are completely bizarre.
< 1321656968 152303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may decide for yourself whether this is a cruel joke or the best possible alternative :P
< 1321656970 647836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too esoteric for #esoteric, as it were.
< 1321656974 104732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What rejects?
< 1321657003 89894 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321657020 771478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: people who came in here thinking it's about that other kind of esoteric :P
< 1321657038 905848 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, those people. But which ones, specifically?
< 1321657108 359058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the names
< 1321657208 948154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does shift return anything?
< 1321657222 704440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing in shell "returns" anything
< 1321657236 691490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321657237 443154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321657272 404576 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess shift > /dev/null  would suck for the common case
< 1321657273 782498 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome
< 1321657275 913681 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ f () { \     if [ $# -eq 0 ]; then \         exec ? welcome \     else \         name=$1 \         shift \         exec @ "$name" welcome "$@" \     fi \ } \ f $* \
< 1321657310 488480 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mind boggles at the brain that could consider this preferable to my perl.
< 1321657328 24341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who doesn't like perl.
< 1321657390 587063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a haskell solution will also be accepted
< 1321657398 826090 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome now what?
< 1321657401 291670 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :now: what?: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321657408 227772 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it works
< 1321657409 258234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, someone fixed it?
< 1321657410 475502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome hi
< 1321657412 556287 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321657415 882676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, why do you need a different one from shell script in this case.
< 1321657418 368044 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome weird\nick
< 1321657420 609828 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird \ ick: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321657429 704373 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *MWAHAHAHA*
< 1321657436 228065 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 NICK :weird\nick
< 1321657441 752061 :weird\nick!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly legal, too
< 1321657443 386277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the \n :P
< 1321657445 838679 :weird\nick!oerjan@129.241.210.46 NICK :oerjan
< 1321657448 657447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll write a haskell version >:)
< 1321657462 40492 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does HackEgo _have_ haskell?
< 1321657473 96637 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc --version
< 1321657475 903541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.2.1
< 1321657482 394551 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need a Haskell version? Shell scripts works for this case (but you need to correct the mistake)
< 1321657494 584327 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what _do_ you have against perl...
< 1321657511 40122 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my second favorite language, basically
< 1321657564 140309 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and won't haskell be slow unless precompiled
< 1321657577 349506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have ghc
< 1321657589 130449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { names <- getArgs; let x:xs = ["@", name | name <- names] ++ ["?", "welcome"]; (_,_,_,p) <- proc x xs; waitforProcess p >>= ... bah
< 1321657606 647975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fine put the perl version back :P
< 1321657607 26610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best choice: perl
< 1321657614 850190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1321657615 890980 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321657625 131357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 997
< 1321657626 342919 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321657627 272517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/runperl
< 1321657628 985078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/welcome
< 1321657629 107516 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321657630 535801 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/welcome
< 1321657638 699429 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321657643 878042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if (defined($_=shift))
< 1321657649 799505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am more than 100% sure you can do that more nicely :P
< 1321657693 344780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway what's wrong with
< 1321657697 871342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec map { "@", $_ } @ARGV, "?", "welcome";
< 1321657702 639818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321657716 747228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec map { "@", $_ } (split / /, $ARGV[1]), "?", "welcome";
< 1321657720 272150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1321657735 310473 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the @ needs to get its arguments as one string
< 1321657741 984722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/@
< 1321657743 652467 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ if echo "$1" | grep -c ' ' >/dev/null; then \     echo -n "$1" | sed 's/ .*/: /' \     exec $(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ else \     echo -n "$1: " \     shift \     exec "$@" \ fi \
< 1321657748 99225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wrong.
< 1321657759 678422 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? hm.
< 1321657779 34256 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ test @ this echo hi
< 1321657780 809061 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: this: hi
< 1321657792 780280 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321657797 817848 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although...
< 1321657799 625306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec map { "@", $_ } ($#ARGV > 1 ? @ARGV : split(/ /, $ARGV[1])), "?", "welcome";
< 1321657809 599933 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ weird\nick @ this echo hi
< 1321657811 499337 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdnick: this: hi
< 1321657820 181758 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1321657820 377295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec map { "@", $_ } ($#ARGV > 1 ? @ARGV : split(/\s+/, $ARGV[1])), "?", "welcome";
< 1321657825 205210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's shell escaping, doofus
< 1321657830 445202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ 'weird\nick' @ this echo hi
< 1321657832 382189 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird \ ick: this: hi
< 1321657836 774304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuq
< 1321657849 426930 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ weird\nick echo hi
< 1321657851 945624 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird \ ick: exec: 9: weird: not found
< 1321657858 741386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321657867 726455 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321657882 156890 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might convert elliott to perl yet at this rate
< 1321657933 504198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or maybe i'll implement a wonderful process handling library for haskell >:)
< 1321657967 100058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could always do $_=shift; if (defined)
< 1321658011 428483 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding the defined($_=shift)  bit
< 1321658016 227327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I think that looks fine. good perl. :)
< 1321658025 315122 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined($_=shift) was the first thing i tried which worked
< 1321658035 411910 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried just $_[0] before
< 1321658047 794483 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or something
< 1321658080 557922 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah perl is weird about @_
< 1321658091 807327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's readonly
< 1321658290 953069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321658292 88895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you think i'm joking, but i actually just sketched a simple API right now :P
< 1321658299 295387 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_ isn't a thing in your current scope anyway.
< 1321658299 629507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ v
< 1321658307 621883 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's rawSystem btw
< 1321658314 613368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift uses @ARGV when outside of functions and @_ when inside them
< 1321658316 430230 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle rawSystem
< 1321658316 858949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Process rawSystem :: String -> [String] -> IO ExitCode
< 1321658317 71783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Cmd rawSystem :: String -> [String] -> IO ExitCode
< 1321658321 568995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but it's ugly and planned for deprecation
< 1321658326 731849 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321658339 211351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're meant to do everything through createProcess
< 1321658374 453476 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have they gone completely insane?
< 1321658382 861267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: createProcess isn't that bad...
< 1321658441 38627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome :: [String] -> IO ()
< 1321658441 170074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome names = startCommand cmd >=> waitProcess >>= exitWith
< 1321658441 215419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where cmd = proc $ ["@", name | name <- names] ++ ["?", "welcome"]
< 1321658441 215586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssssss
< 1321658590 950158 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321658635 866115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321658681 172138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc takes the command separately.  also i see no startCommand.
< 1321658717 743730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoosh
< 1321658746 446163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's your own redesign?
< 1321658840 998950 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: @_ is @ARGV outside functions
< 1321658850 341811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321658893 955961 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1321658910 633153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '$_=shift; s/ +/ @ /g; exec ($_?"@ $_ ":"")."? welcome";' > bin/welcome2
< 1321658912 377666 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321658914 293346 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321658914 413277 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321658921 899482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl bin/welcome2
< 1321658923 824312 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321658925 991753 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321658981 541986 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl bin/welcome2 test
< 1321658983 811837 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test:
< 1321658986 572957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321658999 80079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nice complete lack of escaping.
< 1321659009 390304 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: d'oh i've misread the documentation, no wonder @_ didn't work :P
< 1321659010 227186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I escape from no one.
< 1321659021 219386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome2
< 1321659023 32362 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$_=shift; s/ +/ @ /g; exec ($_?"@ $_ ":"")."? welcome";
< 1321659046 344625 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's @ARG which is a synonym for @_, not @ARGV
< 1321659106 871787 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: #!/usr/bin/perl -w , friend
< 1321659115 265455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321659164 772447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run {echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_=shift; s/ +/ @ /g; exec ($_?"@ $_ ":"")."? welcome";'} > bin/welcome2
< 1321659167 136166 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: {echo: command not found
< 1321659173 876384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run { echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_=shift; s/ +/ @ /g; exec ($_?"@ $_ ":"")."? welcome";' } > bin/welcome2
< 1321659175 463603 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
< 1321659178 99651 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ekkrjiwerjiuwhejr
< 1321659181 775640 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help bash
< 1321659185 601793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it should be quite clear that since \ is a legal char in a nick, you want to be very careful to avoid escape interpretation
< 1321659210 201317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does.
< 1321659211 429138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321659214 886018 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1321659231 144254 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, @ also breaks it
< 1321659231 745294 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUAHAHAHAH
< 1321659257 222093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' > bin/welcome2; echo '$_=shift; s/ +/ @ /g; exec ($_?"@ $_ ":"")."? welcome";'  >> bin/welcome2
< 1321659259 134909 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659269 901682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat `which welcome2`
< 1321659272 22148 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: `which welcome2`: No such file or directory
< 1321659277 481947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which welcome2`
< 1321659285 999209 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am m4st3r h4k3g0
< 1321659308 980173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659345 214810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321659359 680567 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which welcome2
< 1321659361 659354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659365 583821 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321659373 584566 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Feel free to read JIT try2.
< 1321659373 861651 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome2
< 1321659375 557488 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659377 863491 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi.
< 1321659385 268645 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which welcome2
< 1321659386 998786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/welcome2
< 1321659387 373500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stupid executable bit...
< 1321659393 95770 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2
< 1321659395 56299 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless use of concatenation (.) or string in void context at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2. \ Use of uninitialized value $_ in substitution (s///) at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2.
< 1321659401 133595 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul
< 1321659410 660527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' > bin/welcome2; echo '$_=shift; s/ +/ @ /g; exec (($_?"@ $_ ":"")."? welcome");'  >> bin/welcome2
< 1321659412 454504 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659417 44962 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome2
< 1321659418 672776 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659420 451582 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2 hi
< 1321659422 469285 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659427 652030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2
< 1321659430 36562 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of uninitialized value $_ in substitution (s///) at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2. \ Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659432 758933 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2 weird\nick\asshole
< 1321659435 193415 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdnickasshole: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659447 839613 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: @ itself is not \ clean
< 1321659520 714273 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/@
< 1321659522 585989 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ if echo "$1" | grep -c ' ' >/dev/null; then \     echo -n "$1" | sed 's/ .*/: /' \     exec $(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ else \     echo -n "$1: " \     shift \     exec "$@" \ fi \
< 1321659576 428523 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' > bin/welcome2; echo '$_=shift and s/ +/ @ /g; exec ((defined?"@ $_ ":"") . "? welcome");'  >> bin/welcome2
< 1321659579 646979 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659582 476652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome2
< 1321659584 118714 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659588 956507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome2 hi asshole
< 1321659590 869615 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Use of "defined" without parentheses is ambiguous at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2. \ Bareword found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2, near "?"@ $_ ":"") . "? welcome" \.(Missing operator before welcome?) \ Unquoted string "welcome" may clash with future reserved word at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2. \ String found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/welcome2 line 2, at end of
< 1321659595 177902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awediuhweiuhwiuerhiuw4hriuhswr
< 1321659599 665957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: screw -w :P
< 1321659608 963661 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -e
< 1321659610 27363 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is
< 1321659625 331532 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an imaginary option that makes errors cause perl programs not to execute.
< 1321659677 755201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' > bin/welcome2; echo '$_=shift and s/ +/ @ /g; exec (((defined)?"@ $_ ":"") . "? welcome");'  >> bin/welcome2
< 1321659679 477360 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659683 609345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome2
< 1321659685 604876 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659687 4075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2
< 1321659689 267070 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659692 713355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2 hi hi
< 1321659695 248978 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi: hi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659697 309911 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2 weird\dude
< 1321659699 471977 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirddude: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659705 914583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome2 'weird\dude'
< 1321659708 180288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirddude: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659711 492299 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ clang -O4 full.c
< 1321659711 614419 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/cc-p91cPs.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
< 1321659712 796131 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_O
< 1321659726 205442 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/welcome2
< 1321659727 982257 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/welcome2
< 1321659735 291661 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this version betterer than welcome?
< 1321659789 182500 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome
< 1321659791 380480 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659801 527077 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^.*? +.*? //) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; }' >bin/@
< 1321659803 431557 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
< 1321659810 611272 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^.*? +.*? //) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; }') >bin/@
< 1321659812 587041 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659817 571005 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OH NO PERL IS TAKING OVER
< 1321659822 118023 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BEAR ARMS
< 1321659826 259265 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/@
< 1321659828 296477 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659834 381632 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321659835 688352 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ test echo hi
< 1321659837 183726 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of uninitialized value $1 in concatenation (.) or string at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ Use of uninitialized value $2 in exec at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ Can't exec "": No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ :
< 1321659843 409077 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1321659853 453992 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1321659886 253680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop replacing everything with perl >:(
< 1321659902 985412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; }') >bin/@
< 1321659904 952332 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659909 455774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm bin/welcome2; # breaks on \
< 1321659911 300916 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659914 497108 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/@
< 1321659916 257592 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321659922 70693 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ test echo hi
< 1321659923 843584 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: hi
< 1321659929 549433 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ test\nick echo hi
< 1321659931 523962 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test\nick: hi
< 1321659935 741166 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't
< 1321659943 492643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `welcome2 weird\dude
< 1321659943 538047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : weirddude: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659943 583328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome test\nick ho
< 1321659945 672620 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test\nick: ho: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321659950 295221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it does
< 1321659971 218146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with my script.
< 1321659978 31703 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now there's a @ and welcome which escape properly, at least
< 1321659987 241823 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or not-unescape)
< 1321659993 504371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could have just fixed @ without rewriting it...
< 1321660007 55691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in perl)
< 1321660015 166096 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, because i cannot get my head around sh's escape madness
< 1321660024 863842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then tell someone who can to fix it :P
< 1321660037 719807 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: feel free to rewrite it in sh again
< 1321660050 811855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't need rewriting
< 1321660054 530561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' > bin/welcome2; echo '$_=shift and s/ +/ @ /g;' >> bin/welcome2; echo 'exec (((defined)?"@ $_ ":"") . "? welcome");'  >> bin/welcome2
< 1321660056 595475 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321660057 522796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSHI HACKEGO EDIT WAR
< 1321660069 65955 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/welcome2
< 1321660070 662165 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321660081 537094 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome2 weird\nick\asshole
< 1321660083 871064 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdnickasshole: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321660090 138279 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look it is my script, wonder why.
< 1321660098 410983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome weird\nick\asshole
< 1321660100 505475 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird\nick\asshole: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321660133 177558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/welcome2
< 1321660134 972280 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321660188 19904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that interpolation did no escapey nonsense.
< 1321660211 772821 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: exec uses a shell if you have just one string argument to it
< 1321660236 129306 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must split away the command to avoid that
< 1321660259 601494 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i was going to check
< 1321660267 653635 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run @ test @ ho echo hi
< 1321660269 561576 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: ho: hi
< 1321660274 523912 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321660365 773304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge: make a script that is like @ but automatically uses the command invoker as the nick.
< 1321660397 632117 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure HackEgo passes on that information, or does it
< 1321660407 443118 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`printenv
< 1321660409 309351 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ SHLVL=0 \ HOME=/tmp
< 1321660410 893123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/make a script/hack hackego so/
< 1321660414 453154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which printenv
< 1321660416 68416 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/printenv
< 1321660422 354360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that distinct from env
< 1321660436 117319 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`env
< 1321660438 41292 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ SHLVL=0 \ HOME=/tmp
< 1321660449 244290 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know env could print too
< 1321660463 448339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file `which printenv`
< 1321660465 867139 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/printenv: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped
< 1321660471 682211 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file `which env`
< 1321660473 801612 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/env: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped
< 1321660477 390015 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321660482 505276 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a softlink or anything.
< 1321660507 534113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well env lets you set them.
< 1321660516 866125 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l /usr/bin/printenv /usr/bin/env
< 1321660519 21830 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 27576 Apr 28  2010 /usr/bin/env \ -rwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 27448 Apr 28  2010 /usr/bin/printenv
< 1321660524 464323 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they
< 1321660531 831055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re not the same file...
< 1321660567 429375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because printenv can't set
< 1321660570 815096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is why it exists at all
< 1321660581 726733 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but why have printenv at all, right
< 1321660597 960100 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`env TERM
< 1321660599 687932 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :env: TERM: No such file or directory
< 1321660605 192864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`printenv TERM
< 1321660607 265961 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux
< 1321660613 425405 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's a difference
< 1321660615 686474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321660621 704511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka $TERM :P
< 1321660623 772818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or getenv("TERM")
< 1321660624 902264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [...]
< 1321660645 263062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do we have an alias for sprunge?
< 1321660662 765647 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which fetch
< 1321660664 441499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321660665 320897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't access sprunge
< 1321660670 641464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use paste
< 1321660685 835116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which curl
< 1321660687 657851 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/curl
< 1321660690 133408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet I can. :P
< 1321660705 601531 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help paste
< 1321660706 467951 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1321660713 681931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: try.
< 1321660718 760388 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run paste --help
< 1321660720 743045 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22312
< 1321660725 922176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321660757 852499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/paste
< 1321660759 725556 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste
< 1321660788 377244 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321660789 412294 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good.
< 1321660810 855236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . | paste
< 1321660813 314658 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19816
< 1321660816 609915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find / | paste
< 1321660819 177285 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11587 \ find: `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/ns': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/2/task/2/fd':
< 1321660834 275866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good.
< 1321660836 782063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / | paste
< 1321660840 220454 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: tree: command not found \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10348
< 1321660843 749046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww
< 1321660845 196266 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still no go on SPARC :(
< 1321660845 313935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1321660846 464645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: shame
< 1321660853 466370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Install tre
< 1321660854 227907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1321660859 561634 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the boink is tree?
< 1321660861 278364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run apt-get install tree
< 1321660863 690930 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :W: Unable to read /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ - DirectoryExists (2: No such file or directory) \ E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (2: No such file or directory) \ E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
< 1321660864 520317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321660877 748556 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sudo -u GOD apt-get install tree
< 1321660879 671000 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: sudo: command not found
< 1321660884 600839 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I figure for security sake, I'll just run random users' code as root.
< 1321660893 285858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD CALL.
< 1321660904 668442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(Unix)
< 1321660907 127258 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321660907 172613 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321660907 172755 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321660910 203845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install tree plz
< 1321660931 339876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : What the boink is tree?
< 1321660965 32230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I gave you links.
< 1321660967 416045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now shut up and install it :P
< 1321660981 329483 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321660997 333388 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't want links. Explain it in four words or less.
< 1321661018 596034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://mama.indstate.edu/users/ice/tree/ has it in a thousand, in the form of one ASCII picture.
< 1321661019 614853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fNgR
< 1321661022 511169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is tree
< 1321661031 493913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does CakeProphet :P
< 1321661038 829551 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a bit like ls, but it prints a directory tree.
< 1321661062 527851 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO FAR I SEE ONLY POLYWORD EXPLANATIONS
< 1321661064 363270 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUR OR LESS
< 1321661075 223369 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this is tree" is totally three
< 1321661077 968916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 if you count the URL
< 1321661082 869994 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Directory tree"
< 1321661095 656519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It draws a directory tree in ASCII/Unicode.
< 1321661106 180322 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can count the URL as one word :P
< 1321661106 385442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ASCII/Unicode directory tree.
< 1321661111 128156 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perfect.
< 1321661114 826507 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / | paste
< 1321661146 485005 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8739
< 1321661161 670355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good tree.
< 1321661161 892320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / >/dev/null
< 1321661163 389986 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321661170 992675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably erroring or something?
< 1321661184 716266 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321661188 134090 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / | head
< 1321661190 381614 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/ \ |-- bin \ |   |-- bash \ |   |-- bunzip2 \ |   |-- bzcat \ |   |-- bzcmp -> bzdiff \ |   |-- bzdiff \ |   |-- bzegrep -> bzgrep \ |   |-- bzexe \ |   |-- bzfgrep -> bzgrep
< 1321661196 409100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's more than 10M :)
< 1321661217 79033 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / | gzip -9 | paste
< 1321661222 310618 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... won't work.
< 1321661225 95266 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / | gzip -9c | paste
< 1321661243 764868 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17
< 1321661250 485157 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32133
< 1321661284 872763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.3 MB
< 1321661304 419162 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Donno why it didn't like it before *shrugs*
< 1321661315 966783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you install the TeX to PNG webpage I have into Hackiki?
< 1321661339 904112 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey can you install df onto HackEgo?
< 1321661353 956697 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Probably, but I doubt that it would do anything useful.
< 1321661355 665278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree | paste
< 1321661357 894606 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32268
< 1321661370 670458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree / | paste
< 1321661382 263780 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Idonno if I like the notion of PNG webpages made from TeX ... there's at least one decent TeX->HTML convertor.
< 1321661391 859918 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32291
< 1321661395 216487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'Swhat Wikipedia does :P
< 1321661398 194398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But HackEgo doesn't need it...
< 1321661406 477430 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does it decide when to use ASCII and when do use Unicode?
< 1321661407 889746 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Hackiki
< 1321661411 122703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321661414 421723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: P.S. I suspect you mean LaTeX :-)
< 1321661417 27853 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Makes more sense for Hackiki
< 1321661418 673092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tree --help
< 1321661420 178974 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: tree [-adfghilnpqrstuvxACDFNS] [-H baseHREF] [-T title ] [-L level [-R]] \.[-P pattern] [-I pattern] [-o filename] [--version] [--help] [--inodes] \.[--device] [--noreport] [--nolinks] [--dirsfirst] [--charset charset] \..[--filelimit #] [] \   -a.     All files are listed. \   -d.     List directories only. \.-l.      Follow symbolic links like directories.
< 1321661421 531983 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, 'struth.
< 1321661429 341675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which I doubt zzo is happy with ;-)
< 1321661432 39774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree --help | paste
< 1321661434 495093 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: tree [-adfghilnpqrstuvxACDFNS] [-H baseHREF] [-T title ] [-L level [-R]] \.[-P pattern] [-I pattern] [-o filename] [--version] [--help] [--inodes] \.[--device] [--noreport] [--nolinks] [--dirsfirst] [--charset charset] \..[--filelimit #] [] \   -a.     All files are listed. \   -d.     List directories only. \.-l.      Follow symbolic links like directories.
< 1321661436 273354 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, you can use that for making PNG images included inside of a HTML page.
< 1321661438 725753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree --help 2>&1 | paste
< 1321661442 348581 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29936
< 1321661446 897407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Memory leak again
< 1321661451 111118 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, not for the entire page.
< 1321661451 438733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tree -A | paste
< 1321661453 704650 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26352
< 1321661457 706934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321661462 65995 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPARC is driving me CRAZY.
< 1321661464 879935 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks we should convert esowiki to hackiki.
< 1321661466 909518 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding a printf cannot make this work >_<
< 1321661476 718378 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could go wrong?
< 1321661481 696511 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I tried to drive that once, but 'twas a wasted effort.
< 1321661486 637079 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a program I wrote; it has to be adjusted to work with Linux (I wrote it for Windows), and it works far better than the Wikipedia one. It also has more options.
< 1321661556 872195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: try again :P
< 1321661558 653483 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also probably remove all the restrictions I have since those are managed by a separate program in Hackiki anyways.
< 1321661589 791128 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hac Kiki?
< 1321661623 992854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hack Iki
< 1321661690 998683 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What HackBot (HackEgo) is to IRC bots, Hackiki is to wikis.
< 1321661856 577724 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :c0w
< 1321661862 928272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "bad\nlambdabot\nbad"
< 1321661863 993423 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  bad
< 1321661864 133427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lambdabot
< 1321661864 178692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : bad
< 1321661864 837026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to add the program myself, as long as Plain TeX, dvipng, and AMS fonts (the METAFONT ones) are installed.
< 1321661946 951969 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'll check in a bit, in the middle of something else right now.
< 1321661954 90828 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1321661987 511046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just got $30 for applying for a credit card
< 1321661990 558304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaaah
< 1321661995 943903 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :free money
< 1321662021 293728 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're placing a bet that I'm fiscally irresponsible.
< 1321662023 862641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOY ARE THEY WRONG.
< 1321662026 387503 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you keep it even if you cancel a credit card immediately?
< 1321662035 284321 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes on an Amazon shopping spree with his new $30 
< 1321662038 680129 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you don't use a credit card?
< 1321662040 638247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably
< 1321662055 430399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it gives you like Amazon reward point things or some shit so I might actually use it.
< 1321662063 961743 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without, you know, owing obscene amounts of interest.
< 1321662065 898065 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any SPARC experts? Anything weird about how it handles return addresses? Something to do with its register windows maybe?
< 1321662068 949209 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelled correctly.
< 1321662150 929261 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely a setjmp would save the return address even if it's otherwise squirreled away in another register window? How could it not?
< 1321662186 988842 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: turns out one of the 4 people who still know anything about SPARC are on this very channel.
< 1321662221 867122 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But whoooooooo
< 1321662268 548932 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yiyus
< 1321662279 375113 :c0w!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321662341 664960 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yiyus: HAAAAAAAAAALP :P
< 1321662444 236616 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321662586 858634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wat
< 1321662595 305666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you know what the death of John McCarthy means?
< 1321662600 259666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elephant WILL NEVER BE A REAL THING.
< 1321662605 29784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it already is one and I missed it.
< 1321662608 875480 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott arpdoit
< 1321662618 985822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to understand how a system could possibly exist on which setjmp+stack doesn't save the return address X-D
< 1321662625 68632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elephant?
< 1321662651 920601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/elephant/elephant.html
< 1321662769 756228 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: elephant will always be remembered
< 1321662794 399300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321662795 423344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321662817 176509 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea, PPH
< 1321662819 155810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight
< 1321662820 883960 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321662822 932999 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elephant is sort like an anti-feather, i think
< 1321662838 178635 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite feather more like
< 1321662861 325070 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in which we learn that CakeProphet doesn't know what anti- means.
< 1321662883 852318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, to me anti- implied a sort of negation effect
< 1321662895 102573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom phantom hoover
< 1321662915 982593 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does opposite
< 1321662992 988299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, no way!
< 1321663059 178864 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321663065 40297 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ollon.
< 1321663125 599720 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nollo
< 1321663141 84316 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWEEET DELICIOUS PALLINDROMIC CORE MMMMM
< 1321663255 558841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah finally the more weak-willed of the Birtons have saught respite in their slumberchambers.
< 1321663301 365693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Americans and Norsemen can converse in peace.
< 1321663343 399615 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that Britons applies to all UKers here. because I said so.)
< 1321663365 608383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321663369 773045 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program I wrote in Haskell to read DVI file is running out of memory!!
< 1321663376 842628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip program
< 1321663413 712326 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make it to not run out of memory?
< 1321663462 300048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably apply strictness somewhere.
< 1321663590 800534 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is not properly tail recursive? And how and where is it supposed to apply strictness somewhere?
< 1321663631 34310 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is actually a prophet, by the way.
< 1321663645 430073 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I like actually know how to debug your program without any source code.
< 1321663671 374296 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: tail recursion can sometimes make things _worse_ in haskell
< 1321663685 343789 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is what you are the prophet of? I thought you were the Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake.
< 1321663700 213230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, lies.
< 1321663702 267479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a facade.
< 1321663708 322687 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If you look will you know how to fix it?
< 1321663721 551649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pale phantom of the dark frowziness that lies beneath.
< 1321663772 641793 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it running out of ByteString memory?
< 1321663776 309590 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ineffable funk.
< 1321663803 468836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what kind of memory is it running out of?
< 1321663808 532570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a stack overflow reported?
< 1321663816 205402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just gobble up computer memory until the whole system lags?
< 1321663816 729318 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just says out of memory.
< 1321663821 423708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I bet it's RAM.
< 1321663823 768764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321663824 30809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"out of memory"? that's it?
< 1321663831 580101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system didn't lag.
< 1321663833 192353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321663841 521777 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it just says "out of memory"
< 1321663841 705627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1321663841 755876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you sure it doesn't say the heap is exhausted? :P
< 1321663844 788658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird.
< 1321663860 402321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you loading a really big file?
< 1321663872 739501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if skyrim tracks number of hours you played so far somewhere. Probably don't want to check that though...
< 1321663873 493955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can try +RTS -HM
< 1321663875 301965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some 
< 1321663877 328860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :megabytes
< 1321663879 910616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to increase the default heap size
< 1321663886 774756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to load a very big file
< 1321663902 845817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm
< 1321663906 956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shouldn't the size of the heap grow as required?
< 1321663908 144204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like ghc automatically increases the heap
< 1321663914 307430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321663917 897252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well that's not always the best decision... but anyway
< 1321663921 49217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't make sense if it didn't
< 1321663923 39440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how much RAM do you have? :P
< 1321663924 72963 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file DVI.lhs is 33 KB, and DVI.dvi (the output of TeX processing DVI.lhs) is 51 KB. But I tried loading a very short DVI file and it is still out of memory.
< 1321663925 359413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true.
< 1321663930 164760 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you might try http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.3/html/users_guide/prof-heap.html
< 1321663937 350312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now stacks tend to have a max size more often
< 1321663938 337842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then your program is inefficient *shrugs*
< 1321663944 386855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 224 MB of RAM
< 1321663956 451560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... really?
< 1321663959 369703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321663960 604704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old is that computer?
< 1321663965 755499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1321663969 590900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321663978 632305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that belongs in a mueum!
< 1321663980 899939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :museum*
< 1321663983 132659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321663988 31072 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AE3D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321664009 171489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, did I just do an unintentional Indiana Jones parody? Ouch I think I did...
< 1321664015 655623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it says ": out of memory" is that different?
< 1321664098 438387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, just don't try to run windows on that system. Unless it is like 9x
< 1321664111 453488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even windows xp would be a pain with that little ram
< 1321664116 942442 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is XP
< 1321664116 995189 :kmc!~keegan@cpe-74-68-127-232.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321664130 866368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds painful on 224 MB RAM
< 1321664148 673937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, for laughs you should try windows vista or windows 7 on it
< 1321664161 107766 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to change it
< 1321664161 314721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab
< 1321664176 797612 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever change the operating system I will put Linux, not Windows.
< 1321664185 846875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, but iirc DX11 doesn't work under XP?
< 1321664200 452716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe your graphics card can't do that anyway
< 1321664204 510107 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use DX11
< 1321664213 351658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that
< 1321664304 214661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no great genius without some touch of madness.
< 1321664419 897631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people used xp with 256 megs of ram commonly, y'know
< 1321664425 251618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it came out in 2001
< 1321664469 672119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also i'm pretty sure most stuff works with directx 9 still
< 1321664514 493718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Controversially, the original name for the DirectX project was the "Manhattan Project", a reference to the US nuclear weapons initiative. Alex St. John, creator of the original Microsoft DirectX specification, claims[21] that the connotation with the ultimate outcome of the Manhattan Project (the nuclear bombing of Japan) is intentional, and that DirectX and its sister project, the Xbox (which shares a similar logo), are meant to displace Japanese 
< 1321664514 587318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ame makers from their dominance of the industry.[22]"
< 1321664521 901600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it's like he's trying to be a gigantic asshole
< 1321664567 541286 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow.
< 1321664574 181588 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... wow.
< 1321664632 151563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The next Microsoft graphics project: "Holocaust", featuring the 3D subsystem "We're Literally Going To Kill Eleven Million People... But This Time, It's PERSONAL"
< 1321664678 283331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slogan: "Bill Gates Is Literally Hitler, Like, He's Growing The Moustache And Everything"
< 1321664686 841876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ballmer
< 1321664691 288533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill Ballmer
< 1321665070 948981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: people used xp with 256 megs of ram commonly, y'know
< 1321665071 85323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : it came out in 2001
< 1321665072 828308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah
< 1321665076 391829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :xp is that old?
< 1321665077 772779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321665085 685251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very long lived
< 1321665099 456865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe xp is the longest-lasting version of any maintained microsoft product :P
< 1321665124 3949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 5 years
< 1321665140 895030 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More if you consider the length of official support.
< 1321665141 866437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is about 10 years now
< 1321665146 874105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius is an infinite capacity for taking pains. -- Jane Hopkins
< 1321665150 154718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321665171 134183 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Support ends in 2014.
< 1321665177 773998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321665184 824355 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sale* ended in 2009.
< 1321665327 598662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i'm not a genius anyway?
< 1321665535 688229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so 8 years of sale and 13 years of support?
< 1321665539 270884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as currently planned
< 1321665602 743544 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, that's like the worst definition of genius i've ever heard
< 1321665623 572280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck is this dude
< 1321665641 725374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure "jane hopkins" is male :P
< 1321665654 123884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. -- Dennis Ritch
< 1321665654 627778 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane can be either
< 1321665658 19642 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude as well
< 1321665779 860198 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i just googled and there is no jane hopkins
< 1321665801 515650 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry found her http://jane-hopkins.com/
< 1321665836 532652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think i need to give geniusness a rethinkover.
< 1321665844 602298 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's some deep shit
< 1321665868 835441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan i feel bad about using Int all the time am i a bad person
< 1321665899 554433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, obviously you should use Int# yes
< 1321665916 626550 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Integer#, that's the best type
< 1321665934 496648 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is just a bit of gödel numbering
< 1321665940 41673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1321665942 221326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Integer#
< 1321665943 462533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Integer#'
< 1321665945 542824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Int#
< 1321665946 925511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Int#'
< 1321665948 319604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a constructor
< 1321665953 597376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp
< 1321665957 193213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i Int#
< 1321665961 364488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no
< 1321665965 1329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Int#
< 1321665966 196742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type constructor or class `Int#'
< 1321665967 128271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Int#
< 1321665967 640595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found.
< 1321665970 300856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321665971 105488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Int
< 1321665971 586584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Int = I# Int#
< 1321665975 513573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321665976 664255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously Int# has no source
< 1321665979 600225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's primitive
< 1321665980 385465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1321665989 996747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I assumed you would have a type for it
< 1321666004 713161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :types don't have types
< 1321666028 456623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1321666033 779415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOGICAL DEAD END OH SNAPA
< 1321666042 698011 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of type could a type have
< 1321666046 10823 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away
< 1321666047 442976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :i Int
< 1321666047 603962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Int = GHC.Types.I# GHC.Prim.Int# 	-- Defined in GHC.Types
< 1321666049 504179 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typetype
< 1321666049 757209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that anyway
< 1321666072 992215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Int + Char
< 1321666073 955933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `Int'Not in scope: data constructor `Char'
< 1321666074 869089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as far as I can tell there isn't an Integer#
< 1321666077 323045 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT PROPOSTEROUS'
< 1321666083 369588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Integer
< 1321666083 513995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  = integer-gmp:GHC.Integer.Type.S# GHC.Prim.Int#
< 1321666083 559647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | integer-gmp:GHC.Integer.Type.J# GHC.Prim.Int# GHC.Prim.ByteArray#
< 1321666083 559826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  	-- Defined in integer-gmp:GHC.Integer.Type
< 1321666084 563150 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of whooshing here tonight
< 1321666107 244193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an interesting type
< 1321666133 572880 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :S# is for small integers
< 1321666144 936774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah right, but that is still GMP it seems?
< 1321666153 213957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why use gmp for small integers
< 1321666158 164516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321666163 10513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integer is just d efined in integer-gmp.
< 1321666164 391212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1321666166 344149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321666174 526272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see the prefix because you don't have that package exposed
< 1321666209 491601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that still leaves the original question unanswered....
< 1321666214 445882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which question
< 1321666217 536241 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: S# is the name of the constructor
< 1321666222 111207 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a different type
< 1321666227 75538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>?
< 1321666247 248944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would small integers be done with GMP or why would non GMP stuff be done in integer-gmp!?
< 1321666256 574429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : no.
< 1321666256 663160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Integer is just d efined in integer-gmp.
< 1321666256 708431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : obviously
< 1321666263 89264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have presented no evidence that small integers are done with gmp
< 1321666273 750175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: S# is the constructor for small Integers, within the normal range of ints
< 1321666274 617935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: here's a hint: how do you define Integer outside of integer-gmp
< 1321666277 532532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, except for the name of the package :P
< 1321666283 996946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :J# is the one that is bignumish
< 1321666293 306118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hint: you can't, because you need a bignum type
< 1321666294 785766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not claiming it isn't done. Just that the naming is bad then
< 1321666295 782844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321666303 65066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: integer-gmp = implementation of Integer with GMP
< 1321666308 713673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: integer-simple = implementation of Integer with no dependencies
< 1321666312 345824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fair enough. I would have assumed that a "small" one was machine word?
< 1321666314 46819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only badly-named if you're a literal idiot
< 1321666319 89455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:    = integer-gmp:GHC.Integer.Type.S# GHC.Prim.Int#
< 1321666321 265934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think Int# is?
< 1321666328 178639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously has to be boxed in that constructor
< 1321666334 675551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I'm just too sleepy for this
< 1321666346 483939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1321666436 608628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :metaphorical idiots think the name is just right
< 1321666616 27393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321666851 328472 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARC
< 1321668479 990124 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: later chat
< 1321669091 295259 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321669093 806086 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mission successful
< 1321669097 472503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tea, sammich, and cigars.
< 1321669100 228042 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simple pleasures of life.
< 1321669215 52656 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321669239 143983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: don't you have like
< 1321669244 661017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation of SPARC?
< 1321669266 952362 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, but it's doing little to explain things such as why setjmp didn't seem to put the return address anywhere.
< 1321669326 652498 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah so you're compiling to C or?
< 1321669338 833377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp is a thing in SPARC as well.
< 1321669370 317559 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my code is C ... of course setjmp is a thing in SPARC, it should save all sorts of process state including but not limited to registers.
< 1321669438 635020 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cursory googling suggests that SPARC does indeed have a stack and it does indeed work like x86 (it grows down)
< 1321669443 954783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321669547 34302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CakeProphet's helpful, isn't he.
< 1321669595 950806 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quite.
< 1321669609 822087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the definition of helpful.
< 1321669612 65990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well
< 1321669616 118167 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the word for helpful
< 1321669619 375550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not really being helpful
< 1321669620 384312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet.
< 1321669621 447216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "eager to help"
< 1321669682 31748 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, yes
< 1321669693 880971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the antonym, meaning, "helpful but not eager to help"
< 1321669696 680828 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be elliott.
< 1321669726 169103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF WE BECAME ONE PERSON.
< 1321669728 86489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINK OF ALL THE HELP
< 1321669730 48432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
< 1321669758 506834 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also think of the great manliness.
< 1321669819 154478 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321669820 320666 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321669894 39603 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap its cold outside.
< 1321669912 573312 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :43 degrees.
< 1321669925 912709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is cold for my climate.
< 1321669928 235564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-43?
< 1321669931 460325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321669942 79944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sanetemp 43
< 1321669944 349792 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found
< 1321669956 260597 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 43
< 1321669958 199549 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.1
< 1321669987 120256 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was literally like 70-something yesterday
< 1321670002 693103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LITERALLY LIKE THIS APPROXIMATE FIGURE.
< 1321670005 126874 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.  i saw in a newspaper the other that that and rain is essentially the average norwegian national weather
< 1321670012 39000 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the other... month
< 1321670071 77274 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one nice thing about Fahrenheit is that it goes by intervals of 10 in intuitive understanding
< 1321670080 189448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :each degree of 10 is like another level of coldness/hotness
< 1321670086 801014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least
< 1321670112 996704 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how people intuitively delineate levels of coldness/hotness in the context of weather.
< 1321670126 24044 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's intuitive.
< 1321670177 900441 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to celsius which goes by intervals of 5, obviously
< 1321670187 13921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321670345 364997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard
< 1321670359 102808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perception of temperature isn't discrete, if it went up by 20s or 5s that'd be just as good
< 1321670373 350768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only think it's a good factor to scale by because you're used to thinking in terms of fahrenheit in the first place...
< 1321670384 923682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to imply "THIS IS THE AWESOMEST THING AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY THAT WORKS"
< 1321670388 39039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know.
< 1321670415 9037 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also Kelvin temperatures. Are there Planck temperatures?
< 1321670423 953671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321670448 817522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to divide by Planck temperature.
< 1321670480 543516 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear they don't go up by 10, though
< 1321670485 87684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT
< 1321670497 726176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst temperature metric.
< 1321670619 910963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_temperature
< 1321670632 440021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0°C = 1.928 × 10^-30 Tp
< 1321670633 661534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical
< 1321670867 14600 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm guessing Planck temperature was the temperature at the beginning of the universe?
< 1321670875 420235 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be simple to empirically verify.
< 1321670907 645306 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The error is just what it says."? That's, like, a whole new perspective on GHC error messages, man!
< 1321670917 298713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's as factually accurate as it is unhelpful.
< 1321670923 143673 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's a bit overstating it, i think
< 1321670933 746652 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Has anyone ever realized that before?
< 1321670944 301771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. This is why only I can debug Haskell programs.
< 1321670945 471975 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may have been a time during the big bang when that was the temperature
< 1321670962 170435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a movie once, I have the DVD of it. The label says "Candid Camera" even though the movie has nothing to do with Candid Camera. The label also says "*UOP-FREE*" and has the DVD Video logo on it.
< 1321670988 490703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have realized that. :P
< 1321670995 379939 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I knew it!
< 1321670998 962022 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But your secret is out now.
< 1321671013 256755 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would probably be best to tell us what you're actually trying to do.
< 1321671021 911791 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should file for a patent or something.
< 1321671040 395890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hey, I only use the X-Y problem when talking to people who are being really confusing!
< 1321671061 592679 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x - y
< 1321671062 627347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  x - y
< 1321671073 101646 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In one scene one of the actors is saying that some text should be placed on the screen at that time. He said something like "On the screen you should write those words, OK?" and the text was literally placed "Those words, OK" on the screen
< 1321671132 682310 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I oftentimes encounter people trying to solve the XY problem on my questionsin IRC channels
< 1321671139 398948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a test of the camera equipment, the first scene is about how to eat lego.
< 1321671154 631742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :little do they know, they're usually wrong, and continue to be obnoxious when I continue asking my actual question.
< 1321671173 43362 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :NotASpy
< 1321671183 912881 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scene 2 comes after scene 3. There is no scene numbered 1.
< 1321671186 710870 :NotASpy!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :DefinitelyNotASp
< 1321671211 668979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DefinitelyNotASp: your foolish disguise fools no one but yourself!
< 1321671217 880715 :DefinitelyNotASp!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :TotallyNotASpy
< 1321671240 626398 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome TotallyNotASpy
< 1321671243 24767 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TotallyNotASpy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321671403 9937 :TotallyNotASpy!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321671544 536543 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle unsafeCoerce
< 1321671545 45273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b
< 1321671570 737811 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Any
< 1321671571 69796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude any :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
< 1321671571 300333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List any :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
< 1321671571 345701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Monoid Any :: Bool -> Any
< 1321671577 270827 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321671592 36585 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle -Prelude Any
< 1321671592 522903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown flag: -P
< 1321671592 687098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321671599 435321 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arg
< 1321671600 741873 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :h
< 1321671612 595654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle GHC.Exts Any
< 1321671614 62710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: :: Exts Any +GHC
< 1321671614 201863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1321671616 452669 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typeof operator would be fun, on top of the ::-as-operator thing previously discussed.
< 1321671619 641580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle +GHC Any
< 1321671620 195485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package anydbm
< 1321671620 343682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package Ganymede
< 1321671620 389016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package hp2any-core
< 1321671634 288153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asTypeOf a b = unsafeCoerce a :: typeof b
< 1321671647 86862 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321671670 540609 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, typeof operator, I would like to have too; even GNU C has typeof operator too.
< 1321671680 910888 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (Debug.Trace.trace "hm..." 1) :: GHC.Exts.Any) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671685 745013 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"and hm"
< 1321671703 644359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321671715 863163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (Debug.Trace.trace "hm..." (++)) :: GHC.Exts.Any) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671718 189912 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"and hm"
< 1321671731 378955 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (Debug.Trace.trace "hm..." (++)) :: Int) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671733 673449 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"and hm"
< 1321671742 153037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: wait, what
< 1321671744 895528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321671758 756486 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (Debug.Trace.trace "hm..." (++)) :: [Int] -> [Int] -> [Int]) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671761 20346 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"and hm"
< 1321671778 96315 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe there's something wrong with the tracing
< 1321671793 371170 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell Debug.Trace.trace "hm..." "and hm"
< 1321671795 868354 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"and hm"
< 1321671800 717284 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321671804 433328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runghc 2+2
< 1321671810 921414 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :target `2+2' is not a module name or a source file
< 1321671814 162357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321671819 784699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc -e 'Debug.Trace.trace "hm..." "and hm"'
< 1321671824 365541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... \ "and hm"
< 1321671853 4492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: enjoy
< 1321671873 204251 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO (putStr "hm..." >> return 1)) :: GHC.Exts.Any) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671875 894072 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..."and hm"
< 1321671905 271359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, found another way :P
< 1321671913 884772 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO (putStr "hm..." >> return (++))) :: GHC.Exts.Any) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671916 297208 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..."and hm"
< 1321671927 73677 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO (putStr "hm..." >> return (++))) :: Int) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671929 656150 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..."and hm"
< 1321671956 388885 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO (putStr "hm..." >> return 1)) :: Int -> Int)) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671960 220116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you there?
< 1321671966 417188 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321671973 716285 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish
< 1321671978 482614 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO (putStr "hm..." >> return 1)) :: Int -> Int) `seq` "and hm"
< 1321671981 99921 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..."and hm"
< 1321671990 327348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What's a ring?
< 1321671993 316125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there was a 25% decrease in fuel efficiency.
< 1321671996 146671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can troll me, I won't mind.
< 1321671997 604816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost exactly.
< 1321672004 708327 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Bravisimo
< 1321672014 922457 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm on the path to being a true American.
< 1321672018 824300 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Um... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(mathematics)?
< 1321672019 753549 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness
< 1321672025 590750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Thx for troll
< 1321672029 696843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness
< 1321672031 937411 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :723) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness
< 1321672045 498101 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admin + elliott
< 1321672052 232933 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321672072 985736 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"admin + elliott" is a scary thought, to me.
< 1321672122 643104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone completed an ultra ending for ADOM with 1 XP. Other challenges are: * Never kill anyone other than uniques; you are not allowed to have any companions either. * No use of food. * Kill as many different kind of creatures as possible (some uniques are mutually exclusive however). * Never carry more than 100s of inventory (including equipment).
< 1321672138 129964 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: From what I'm getting from that Wikipedia article, it's the algebraic structure with "+" and "*" operators, with closure, associativity, existence of identity, existence of inverse, and commutativity for addition, and closure, associativity, and existence of identity for multiplication.
< 1321672147 571940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THANXE BRO
< 1321672152 449088 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, distributitive with addition & multiplication.
< 1321672160 882261 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obvious examples of a ring include the set of naturals.
< 1321672166 7528 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I made such a program in Haskell it is called monoidplus
< 1321672166 653875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1321672167 731919 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reals.
< 1321672169 496744 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1321672172 659633 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Integers*.
< 1321672180 308371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze pikhq, say what you mean.
< 1321672222 196915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other examples of rings include the set of my awesome Persian wallpaper
< 1321672226 129041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait that's a group.
< 1321672226 840153 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pikhq did far better than I could have.
< 1321672245 709942 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't a troll, anyway.
< 1321672249 620756 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was wondering whether that insistence that you shouldn't coerce between data types and functions had any effect on seq
< 1321672281 393655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah.
< 1321672315 910436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* No spells/chat. * Not allowed to use downstairs command (meaning only places you can enter are wilderness encounters); reach level 50. * Enter ToEF at experience level 1, get orb of fire, leave; do not enter any other locations. * Enter small cave; never go up/down stairs; stay until experience level 50. * Edit executable file to force going through small cave, uninteresting dungeon, and main dungeon, in that order.
< 1321672370 221008 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: since that's just about the only operation you can do which doesn't require things to be of a known type
< 1321672439 499526 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is clearly an orc
< 1321672455 679706 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is a magic elf.
< 1321672460 805731 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is slowly approaching the end of his yafgc binge
< 1321672473 748219 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with many interruptions
< 1321672539 343069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how caffeine is considered a food and not a drug by the FDA.
< 1321672555 10585 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-magic elf would be such a sad creature
< 1321672628 645691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all elves are pathetic creatures.
< 1321672634 494845 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slay them on sight.
< 1321672643 289259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not sure what @'s low-level network IO model looks like.
< 1321672645 211684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Make one up for me.
< 1321672649 507054 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so CakeProphet is a goblin, check
< 1321672793 459870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Um excuse me dorfs are the ones who hate elves a lot.
< 1321672811 709821 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok those too, then
< 1321673311 131258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Clearly* you should just send neutrinos in the correct direction.
< 1321673317 898450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NOT HELPFUL :P
< 1321673396 731130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem is twofold: I don't know what connection setup should look like, and I don't know what communication should look like :(
< 1321673668 135408 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. Well, *communication* should be nothing more than passing serialised @ objects back and forth, perhaps transparently compressed.
< 1321673673 779029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I said low-level.
< 1321673682 273591 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Devise a serialisation scheme.
< 1321673684 175543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you think that'll work to talk to IRC or HTTP servers.
< 1321673689 427558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: It won't.
< 1321673709 582126 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so a *non-native* network IO model.
< 1321673721 727702 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Bleh*.
< 1321673749 886404 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is annoying, because normal networking is all about sending bytestreams, and @ is all about not-bytestreams.
< 1321673870 897871 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *tempted* to just go with a kinda stupid send/receive bytestream model.
< 1321673885 302389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be easy if I had imperative sequencing, which I don't
< 1321673926 314658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything so far is based on FRP, i can't decide whether to go with FRP (awkward since it doesn't really fit the usecase but fits in better with the other stuff), something iteratee-esque (dunno what the model would look like without sequencing?) or something else entirely
< 1321673958 177870 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Really* stupidly moronic [Byte]->[Byte] function? :P
< 1321673971 862303 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumeratorities
< 1321673987 334633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's impure
< 1321673999 175983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't allow any sort of out-of-bound control (how do you close the connection?)
< 1321674025 473506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's awfully unperformant and prone to errors but those are even more obvious than the other things i said
< 1321674039 105507 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say "stupidly moronic" for a reason.
< 1321674079 563316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not moronic enough for my standards; i don't accept mediocrity in my moronicity
< 1321674126 828508 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, y'know what? Your low-level network IO model shall involve directly creating TCP packets.
< 1321674137 391045 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not go more low-level than is usual? :P
< 1321674140 513818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still doesn't help for a model of how to send them :P
< 1321674148 370384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and receive them
< 1321674263 158363 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321674400 260308 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your low-level network IO model shall involve neutrinos.  _that_ should be low level enough.
< 1321674418 658501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: *Clearly* you should just send neutrinos in the correct direction.
< 1321674435 418811 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see?  pikhq agrees.
< 1321674480 256436 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321674483 806413 :kmc!~keegan@cpe-74-68-127-232.nyc.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321674804 594224 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps  you just need to make some concessions in your pureness?
< 1321674814 710687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: monads!!
< 1321674816 269101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaah
< 1321674860 372833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just serialize shit and send/receive/check-connection-stuff via an IO monad or 
< 1321674931 555698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Please kick CakeProphet.
< 1321674949 421238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321674966 828317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing you've got something better?
< 1321674968 960705 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives CakeProphet a warning swat first -----###
< 1321675262 297966 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as far as serialization format, what if you arranged objects so that their memory layout and serialized format are equivalent, except for references which would then need to be adjusted from the local RAM address space to a smaller relative-to-some-starting-point-in-stream-datagram-or-whatever address space.
< 1321675278 702956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick CakeProphet for not having any idea how @ works and also he's stupid
< 1321675339 963902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: alternatively, you could point me (and the other people you are discussing this problem with) to a source of information on @ that can clarify my ignorance.
< 1321675352 463490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he am go too far.....
< 1321675419 453949 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, basically as long as the receiving end knows the type of the data then it can reconstruct the transmission
< 1321675437 45585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and readjusting references isn't terribly inefficient, you have to traverse references to serialize anyway.
< 1321675504 85061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or are @ objects not implemented as blocks of memory and pointers? enlighten me.
< 1321675523 969835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'll answer your questions iff oerjan kicks you.
< 1321675625 136576 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically you a) no longer have to serialize anything (aside from some minor pre/postprocessing) because your memory layout is your serialization format  b) enforce type safety by requiring receiving programs to know the type of the data they're receiving.
< 1321675639 907208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Seriously, kick him so I can put him out of his mysery.
< 1321675846 887220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it makes you feel better I can join -minecraft
< 1321675855 466514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to invite me first though.
< 1321675865 904129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321675890 230715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO HOW COULD YOU DO THIS
< 1321675896 177502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE MINECRAFT NOW I CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT EVER
< 1321675898 286240 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries.
< 1321675914 330898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: as far as serialization format, what if you arranged objects so that their memory layout and serialized format are equivalent, except for references which would then need to be adjusted from the local RAM address space to a smaller relative-to-some-starting-point-in-stream-datagram-or-whatever address space.
< 1321675923 614857 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321675930 423516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Misconception: Logical memory addresses must map to physical RAM locations.
< 1321675951 169250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, the Linux kernel does not actually require you to have so many terabytes of RAM that you can load it at addresses starting with a 1.)
< 1321675988 313019 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Exabytes
< 1321675998 488158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exabytes are terabytes :)
< 1321676008 586675 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well, the only requirement is that you can access those logical memory addresses so that you can get the data they refer to and then re-adjust addresses to a relative address space for the object stream.
< 1321676021 800129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need to be physical RAM bytes. >_>
< 1321676028 295735 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just bytes of some kind presumably.
< 1321676040 885955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing the point. Anyway, this doesn't even remotely solve my stated problem.
< 1321676080 245404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well no it doesn't solve how you intend to communicate via network. but I recall you mentioning that you need a way to serialize objects, yes?
< 1321676094 41476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I assume you'll need to do that at some point anyway if you want @ to be distributed in any way.
< 1321676110 113782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run on standard networking protocols.
< 1321676164 904645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but I recall you mentioning that you need a way to serialize objects, yes?"
< 1321676165 587158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321676173 760701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and run on standard networking protocols.
< 1321676186 109391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard networking protocols are completely irrelevant here and are not helped by your proposed solution at all.
< 1321676192 198606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode doesn't talk in a serialised @ format./
< 1321676206 850868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Freenode? maybe I missed something here.
< 1321676224 476161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC isn't a standard networking protocol?
< 1321676226 753427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1321676258 10715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously inter-@ communication would work differently than non-inter-@ communication.
< 1321676270 686228 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because other things only speak in bytestreams.
< 1321676300 758081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and run on standard networking protocols.
< 1321676306 205567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were suggesting this solved standard protocols
< 1321676307 515801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard i.e.
< 1321676308 206156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not @
< 1321676315 446982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my suggestion was merely a method of serialization for some kind of distributed @. not "here's the solution to your networking IO layer"
< 1321676351 135166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. I don't see the relevance.
< 1321676395 427974 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321676408 587931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, I was following up what was pikhq was saying previously. he said "devise a serialization scheme"  and I went with that.
< 1321676429 469557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, then I corrected him.
< 1321676437 113262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need to know more about @lang to know anything about what would make sense for basic send/receive bytestream stuff, which... I'm pretty sure you'll want.
< 1321676478 242185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some level
< 1321676479 364351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321676500 248699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? that's helpful.
< 1321676501 822993 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321676510 916774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the IO model is basically FRPish. So you would e.g. take the mouse input as a coordinate pair in as a Behavior Point or whatever, and then you could return a widget containing a Behavior Doc showing, e.g., the rendering of this pair as (42,-97) or similar.
< 1321676531 900210 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes this awkward for a network?
< 1321676532 399398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could have a button beside it which gives you an Event () firing when the button clicks, and wire that up to change the text of the position widget.
< 1321676560 926408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Because FRP is awkward for basically completely synchronous, and things where there aren't a large number of interdependent variables?
< 1321676565 93031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/synchronous/synchronous things/
< 1321676604 540620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like iteratees would be nicer but it's not clear how to /integrate/ that with the FRP stuff to make it work together, and it's not clear what iteratees would even look like without an underlying monadic structure.
< 1321676613 554176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it still doesn't solve the issue of how you actually set up/terminate/etc. connections.
< 1321676662 673881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a monad not make sense for that?
< 1321676677 378379 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321676690 510044 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321676718 666329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plenty of things are "a monad"; presumably you mean something like the IO monad, which models imperative programs.
< 1321676730 921040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. but not as monolithic as the IO monad
< 1321676733 806582 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one for networking
< 1321676762 649384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a kind of coroutine thing?
< 1321676770 823638 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no
< 1321676775 962509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To convince me of that, you would have to (a) demonstrate how it can be integrated with the FRP stuff (hint: this is incredibly non-trivial), (b) tell me how you think a "non-monolithic" "networking monad" could be done and how to cause the run-time system to execute it, how it fits in with other things blah blah blah which won't work because you can interleave networking and other IO, (c) basically no.
< 1321676782 812153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't solve the set up/terminate/etc.
< 1321676796 247386 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can be many kind of monad, as long as they follow the monad laws. IO monad is I/O actions. Maybe monad is a value or Nothing.
< 1321676829 608320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles down notes.
< 1321676832 108119 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zzo38.
< 1321676848 642817 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read somewhere, something about "successor monad", I think it is like Maybe monad.
< 1321676856 168210 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, are you sure FRP would be awkward?
< 1321676884 54327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP's awkwardness for low-level bytestring networking is well agreed-upon. Which is why nobody does it.
< 1321676887 417115 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean clearly the set up / terminate / etc stuffs are just different kinds of responses to an event.
< 1321676918 245732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no.
< 1321677155 220222 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay...
< 1321677161 43874 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well: good luck!
< 1321677229 285748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They ought to release the source-codes of ADOM, at least when they are dead if not right now, so that many people can correct the bugs in the software!
< 1321677261 668280 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it totally is just responses to events. there are just different kinds of connections.
< 1321677270 794440 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1321677282 406084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also the responses can be a sequence of responses.
< 1321677357 456010 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the syntax proves to be awkward perhaps some sort of syntax sugar would help? I don't really know much about FRP.
< 1321677435 866835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much is clear
< 1321677484 737726 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you actually want a lower-level IO monad similar to Haskell, to do low-level stuff
< 1321677493 462107 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then FRP for your UI?
< 1321677579 947598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't. not above the @ll layer.
< 1321677621 416902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, what if the high-level protocols are done with FRP, implemented in a low-level monad layer?
< 1321677637 49578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is magical.
< 1321677637 939916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321677722 227215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a low-level FRP interface.
< 1321677733 292611 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is somewhat awkward. :P
< 1321677829 126895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quietly reads about FRP in the background.
< 1321678291 461835 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make FRP not awkward and everything will be fine.
< 1321678299 664381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP isn't awkward.
< 1321678390 78531 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not awkward for simple things like network IO
< 1321678427 9123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't about the simplicity.
< 1321678535 134432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321678895 591887 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321678912 15044 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott sudo apt-get update
< 1321679034 762984 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zzz time
< 1321679037 781893 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321679296 296444 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1321679308 417152 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321679318 141298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy
< 1321679321 946210 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321679330 902364 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321679334 557689 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321679374 847043 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Goof night
< 1321679381 998708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321679410 748333 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what awesome thing are you doing?
< 1321679423 182165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are some awesome things you aren't doing right now but are long-term awesome things.
< 1321679460 58844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am doing: eating garlic bread things
< 1321679475 40290 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not doing: having any good ideas on how to make a programming language to solve all of my problems
< 1321679498 187226 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes and sits with monqy
< 1321679508 106371 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are an okay
< 1321679512 697175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: maybe you could learn about all the languages.
< 1321679515 333306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my plan.
< 1321679521 314056 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the bad ones???
< 1321679523 352231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) learn all the languages b) make new language
< 1321679525 215234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. even those.
< 1321679526 551772 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i have a garlic?
< 1321679528 793951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1321679557 462559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i am doing: eating garlic bread things
< 1321679561 643325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is a lucky person..........
< 1321679614 895158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to ease the pain of not knowing the taste of digestive biscuite
< 1321679638 622748 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: for example: perl
< 1321679640 790442 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is good.
< 1321679645 170801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has good ideas and bad ideas.
< 1321679645 363711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=/
< 1321679646 686272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: eat digeststive bsicuti
< 1321679653 841568 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :digestive biscotti
< 1321679663 293933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321679664 92520 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :biscotti is good now i want biscotti and milk
< 1321679675 262888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :digestive biscotti and garlic milk
< 1321679678 74105 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1321679695 709349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never had garlic milk
< 1321679720 39958 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet i have a big perl book and at one point in time i could even do things in perl but i forgot everything
< 1321679737 336492 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point in time i liked perl for being hilariously bad
< 1321679744 2011 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I just trust that it is
< 1321679746 910862 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1321679836 275687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what if your closed-mindedness is limiting your intake of programming language wisdom? you could just siphon the good things as you learn many not-perfect languages.
< 1321679888 531631 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :going through not-so-good languages is tiresome but if you have a really nice inspiring elegant language i want to see it
< 1321679904 95346 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially big not-so-good languages
< 1321679935 927048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl
< 1321679937 7773 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just taking in a lot of good things won't really help me with language design unless they are good things that work well with other good things I want
< 1321679940 736530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is huge and ugly
< 1321679957 752049 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll read functional pearl sometime and hopefully that will impart enough of the good ideas
< 1321679967 220781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321679969 339775 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional perl
< 1321679970 341729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse
< 1321679978 556688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl itself isn't very big, I don't think.
< 1321679984 932961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huuuuge
< 1321679987 852451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with all the other shit that is written in perl attached.
< 1321679996 387935 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's big for me, monqy
< 1321680031 365842 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you know C#?
< 1321680042 371799 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no is it good
< 1321680046 637431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321680054 478844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have any good ideas
< 1321680060 485033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321680064 578177 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the good ideas
< 1321680070 377294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you mean higher-order perl
< 1321680076 984862 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes that
< 1321680081 510796 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bad at rememebering names
< 1321680089 367174 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was functional perl as well.
< 1321680090 139238 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in my reading pile
< 1321680095 561904 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with everything else
< 1321680117 49870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hm... good ideas.
< 1321680125 498447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're all only good in the context of Java-style OO
< 1321680130 177443 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321680132 949809 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah
< 1321680133 500799 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that won't help me then
< 1321680174 766080 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the handling of pass by reference vs. pass by value is good.
< 1321680184 330805 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, again, this is in the context of an imperative language.
< 1321680225 930589 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah monqy language will not be imperative
< 1321680254 900821 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: io is interesting.
< 1321680260 818251 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more imperative oo stuff though
< 1321680270 388910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :io is shit
< 1321680292 208045 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to learn a dependently typed language sometime I think it would be a good thing to know
< 1321680317 927121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to learn a some good category theory
< 1321680319 338381 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what impressed me in particular was how it handled call-by-need in a highly dynamic language.
< 1321680330 185132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321680354 115611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (it just passes ASTs directly)
< 1321680355 915281 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes oh
< 1321680360 480479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the default function interface just evaluates them)
< 1321680362 32870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's really slow)
< 1321680364 625507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ugly)
< 1321680378 228145 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but makes total sense in a dynamic language. :P
< 1321681049 266039 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use sleight of hand to deal yourself the 2,3,4,5,7 (not all of the same suit), and your opponent the 2,3,4,5,8 (again, not all of the same suit). Ask your opponent whether they want to bet on whether they have a better or worse poker hand than you. If they are correct, they don't have to pay. If they are wrong, they have to pay double. They can choose not to bet at all, paying the normal price.
< 1321681097 950041 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tell them the rules before you deal the cards, but they do not have to choose to bet until after they can see their cards.)
< 1321681144 121050 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321681366 982683 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of this game?
< 1321682900 571157 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41994.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321683531 753763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321684211 870301 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know an old magic trick that looks like that, except it used different cards, and they could be dealt randomly, as long as you made sure the opponent got the 9
< 1321684230 863653 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that game sounds evil.
< 1321684419 322575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the magic trick?
< 1321684569 718548 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get together the 9-K of H and the 10-A of S. enough cards for two hands. as long as the spec got the nine, they lost.
< 1321684584 462990 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they got the A
< 1321684686 738307 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were the rules? Is it poker hands?
< 1321684785 41709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember, at Boston Pizza, someone did a card trick, dealt the cards in some way, four cards to each player, two on the table face-up, and asked me to select the one that would give me the better poker hand. He took the other and won. But when the cards were revealed, I can see he would have won regardless of which card I selected. (Nothing was bet on this game, however.)
< 1321685061 595568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321685482 980372 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321685680 605818 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah poker hands
< 1321685717 728628 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: 2:54 AM
< 1321686775 976190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321687216 34418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Ruby is not incredibly bad.
< 1321687251 303964 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is bad. is there anything worth knowing about it?
< 1321687281 878044 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it's a step-up from your average OO lang
< 1321687302 812330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even supports functional style to some degree.
< 1321687398 803818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also as far as OO goes the use of mixins and partial classes allows more code re-use than silly C++/Java inheritance
< 1321687452 157712 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds boring
< 1321687496 21026 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly combines object-oriented and higher-order functions nicely.
< 1321687542 725725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm starting to dislike dynamic typing more and more for anything other than simple scripts.
< 1321687594 212250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think static typing is The Way Of The Future.
< 1321687598 538489 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...
< 1321687607 123378 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be interested to see if a hybrid is feasible.
< 1321687632 604621 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i dislike object oriented
< 1321687652 180391 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i dislike the absence of static typing
< 1321687652 526649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :objected oriented itself isn't bad.
< 1321687659 825282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that most incarnations of it are very bad
< 1321687735 369445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think instead of inheritance it makes more sense to have a sort of prototype OO with combinators.
< 1321687769 671167 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficult part is making it efficient and statically typed.
< 1321688037 204195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess to make it efficient at runtime you'd want to compute some of the object combinators at compile-time.
< 1321688340 162028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I've occasionally considered the idea of "static duck typing" though I don't really know if type inference is possible.
< 1321688416 443190 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I guess typeclasses do that better...
< 1321688451 356191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it can be generalized...
< 1321688475 286126 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're silly
< 1321688521 178722 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would static duck typing even work and what good would it do
< 1321688524 57947 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck typing is just awful
< 1321688556 217701 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can make functions polymorphic on arbitrary objects as long as they implement some set of methods. but if you provide constraint-level operators you can do basically set operations on these sets of methods. not sure what that would achieve though.
< 1321688566 20667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: not as awesome as multi-parameter typeclasses
< 1321688690 840545 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the main difference between Haskell's typeclasses and an OO system would be that there are no instance declarations
< 1321688713 118169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just define the methods and if they match then they're in that particular "typeclass"
< 1321688760 928392 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so defining a method with a particular name and a particular type could potentially match multiple typeclass equivalents.
< 1321688829 776367 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still it lacks the sort of type relations that multi-param typeclasses allow.
< 1321689056 258127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm it would be nice if you could do things like create isomorphisms between those typesets
< 1321689113 958165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, nevermind :P
< 1321689117 584834 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work here.
< 1321689169 234398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't magically determine what happens when you a type is supposed to be isomorphic to all monoids ever, but you specifically implement two monoids.
< 1321689176 345262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you explicitly declare the mapping.
< 1321689187 319219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you a/your/
< 1321689509 177339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm yeah I definitely think it makes more sense to have the type combinators at compile-time...
< 1321689553 871050 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321689579 12824 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321689596 568596 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this type is the asymmetric union of A and B (sets of methods that already exist), and this anonymous set that I'm just now defining that contains some new stuff"
< 1321689672 376225 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asymmetric union being kind of like disjoint union, except you just ignore elements that originate from one set if an equivalently named element originates from the other.
< 1321689685 410147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can resolve situations where two types define a method with the same name, basically.
< 1321689745 909519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically like inheritance, but you could have other fun combinators. basically a lot of set operators.
< 1321689825 60340 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could still do the | union thingy in Haskell on top of that....
< 1321689833 592483 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hurts my brain to think about.
< 1321689842 388386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that messed up all the type constraint stuff.
< 1321689969 984945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that doesn't work. :(
< 1321690000 877188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could work maybe, I dunno.
< 1321690287 215094 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I've scared you away haven't I.
< 1321690327 690430 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321690454 568847 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type X = A *> B <* (C | D)
< 1321690506 956235 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in A, and everything in B (the > indicates preference towards the methods in B), and either all of this stuff in C or all of this stuff in D (exclusive or kind of)
< 1321690580 411347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any object matching this is considered an X.
< 1321690705 172972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also do stuff like relative complement or symmetric difference (no clue why you'd want symmetric difference though)
< 1321690728 115870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative complement would be useful to say "I'll take the methods this type defines, excluding these"
< 1321690753 394570 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure that | actually makes sense.
< 1321690910 393398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: does any of that make sense? :P
< 1321690944 152510 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1321690977 730728 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see what you're doing but I can't see why you're doing it or how you're going to implement it, or if it even works at all
< 1321690983 879093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321690987 141385 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe | (which essentially is supposed to work like Haskell's | ) actually doesn't make sense with these semantics.
< 1321691007 818070 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know type theory? I sure don't. it's on my list of things to learn.
< 1321691009 285473 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys
< 1321691019 448313 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this isn't really type theory.
< 1321691051 996234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the key to all of this working would be that the sets of things that any object contains has to be known at compile-time
< 1321691105 390371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have no clue how primtives would work.
< 1321691106 295131 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, another thing: error reporting is probably going to be hell
< 1321691118 492903 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type X = Int | Char   -- what?
< 1321691140 313317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm9$?
< 1321691194 555229 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think either a distinction has to be made, some magic needs to happen, or primtive types have to integrate nicely into this picture.
< 1321691213 831039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. these are not actually types that I'm defining, but typeclasses, or something.
< 1321691255 906068 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????
< 1321691293 447699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of Int it would be Num... that makes more sense. Num has a defined set of operations.
< 1321691348 240072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that doesn't really address primtive types, it just hides them away for me to deal with later. :P
< 1321691425 131737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I've typo'd primitive successfully three times now.
< 1321691433 466798 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive.
< 1321691620 525104 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well the reason I guess is to get some of the benefits of duck typing in a statically typed system.
< 1321691637 975906 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what benefits of duck typing
< 1321691685 397097 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: try to imagine that you like duck typing, now think of all the benefits. :P
< 1321691719 662372 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try imagining you like punching yourself really hard
< 1321691739 927056 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look I can just pass any object here as long as it defines this interface, and you don't have to explicitly declare that it's part of this interface.
< 1321691752 143014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much the only benefit I can think of. :P
< 1321691764 193619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no that's not the WHOLE POINT of the language I'm considering.
< 1321691782 342993 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a piece. I guess the main idea is to mix the good parts of prototype OO with statically compiled functional languages.
< 1321691802 240404 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit declaration is good. it's documentation and it prevents stupid errors
< 1321691816 264635 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's certainly true.
< 1321691837 102438 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would have to be a significant expressivity benefit to convince me, and even then...
< 1321691877 628749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think there are situations where types are defined without knowledge of another interface, and that type fits perfectly into said interface but the designer hadn't thought of it or it didn't exist or wasn't relevant.
< 1321691895 932829 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess instances work perfectly for that situation... so... :P
< 1321691915 993383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be a fruitless effort I'm going for, here.
< 1321691967 687830 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other things you could do with such a system.
< 1321691979 966947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you consider composing objects together.
< 1321691982 834936 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1321692002 371616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there's expressivity gains there? I dunno.
< 1321692019 430476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minor benefit: easier to manage namespace creep.
< 1321692068 830660 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you can solve that, at least to some degree, in better ways?
< 1321692075 317563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :never.
< 1321692076 728843 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321692206 225465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to have an operator which combined two objects together in such a way that they remain distinct but become a single entity with the combined operations of both.
< 1321692257 844889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operations of the previous object would apply to the state of that object only, any shared operations apply to both.
< 1321692278 606656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could call it OBJECT FUSION. MUAHAHAHAHA
< 1321692424 792233 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could do things like map and fold in this manner, without actually calling a map or fold
< 1321692428 301175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you'd necessarily want to.
< 1321692430 429936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could.
< 1321693382 753492 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321696131 684041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321696735 456716 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321696740 611125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321696835 176840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, fungot
< 1321696835 413349 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: again in a fresh memo later be sent you a copy of knitting for assholes
< 1321696839 124424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321696839 274644 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321696861 2102 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo wiki spam
< 1321696861 99355 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki spam wiki spam
< 1321696885 640409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321697045 682887 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321697047 228585 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321697206 414427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning, Phantom_Hoover
< 1321697213 481988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it?
< 1321697217 57163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, yes it is.
< 1321697223 631417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I got up at a reasonable time.
< 1321697372 936294 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321697855 225435 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321699458 532878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321699868 879863 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gizmodo.com/5859081/why-is-china-building-these-gigantic-structures-in-the-middle-of-the-desert
< 1321702144 201699 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Lydia dies before the marriage can take place, her body will turn up at the temple, causing you to fail the wedding ceremony mini-mission.  The priests will then ask you to leave, and the bride or groom will storm off, angry. [...] The wedding will take place the following day at the same time.  To avoid failing the quest a second time, use Unrelenting Force to fire the corpse from out the way of the door."
< 1321702185 30539 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Skyrim engine must be incredibly detailed to even allow such a bug...
< 1321702475 223439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321702693 843263 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1321702693 888795 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321703335 5907 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321704533 269718 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be able to move lydia when the wedding ceremony starts without checking if she's alive?
< 1321704592 962582 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't know any other contemporary game engine where you can move objects
< 1321704615 624480 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i assume the priests ask you to leave because you killed someone
< 1321704639 936020 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual punishment for murder
< 1321704668 204487 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :punishment for murder is to leave?
< 1321704719 976502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, no one wants a murdering morris in their house. they're really annoying.
< 1321704782 732728 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :murderers are annoying?
< 1321704807 932528 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you are murdered, where is the annoyance?
< 1321704808 331008 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1321704825 249740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very likely that they kill someone else first
< 1321704836 699977 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you're talking to someone
< 1321704851 968193 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mister murderpants decides to assrape them with a chainsaw or something
< 1321704870 835808 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how annoying would that be?
< 1321704882 44007 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321704897 796972 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're like midsentence and BOOM cockroach in the brain
< 1321704930 857210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be an annoying way to die btw)
< 1321704931 584222 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much sense does that make in context?
< 1321704946 459710 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B581.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321704949 528717 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: perfect sense
< 1321704953 876681 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gtg
< 1321704955 444079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perfect
< 1321704974 864567 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik was so annoyed even thinking about this that he had to go
< 1321705016 158336 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321705016 203624 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321705016 203753 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321705804 22060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321705818 952971 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION oklopol
< 1321708275 757620 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321708966 822726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you are a hero of our times.
< 1321708978 759138 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind doing the same to tiffany at some point?
< 1321709304 432780 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321709339 408780 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1321714870 860836 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1321715164 139774 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321718478 413289 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321718985 297489 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/4/2011/11/a651e5ed5d97375a733ca8f62ca9643b/original.jpg what xD
< 1321719015 554112 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an overlay of a penis on a seven fingered horse, conspiracy?
< 1321719098 64171 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how not even one of the lines match a street
< 1321719439 266305 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321719501 595266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of them matches a bit of park?
< 1321719513 552158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Chinese are very interested in destroying American greenery.
< 1321719717 289698 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321720248 934020 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinect_Disneyland_Adventures
< 1321720254 644176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
< 1321720311 504026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, elliott's not here.
< 1321720693 104035 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they are still keeping einstein's brain
< 1321720707 349118 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have my doubts as to whether there was anything special about the dude
< 1321720708 187978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, FSVO 'keeping'.
< 1321720721 558392 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cutting it up doesn't really count in a lot of people's eyes.
< 1321720731 272016 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, more than say brad pitt's brain or how ever his name is spelled
< 1321720740 761055 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1321720782 816412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap I never realised that Elrond was Agent Smith????
< 1321720951 695228 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the internet
< 1321720955 288742 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, can we preserve your brain?
< 1321720986 83711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not planning on dying
< 1321721001 518757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the relevance?
< 1321721054 921117 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will use my brain forever and ever, so i will just preserve it myself
< 1321721061 740775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes. or no. it's irrelevant.
< 1321721092 741401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we insure your brain against accidental damage?
< 1321721105 323992 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321721136 309540 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, would be kind of an interesting challenge to be a retard
< 1321721148 435893 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. a very rich retard i guess
< 1321721152 233890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah you can insure it
< 1321721208 979471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK this is good.
< 1321721251 779272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just go around all like hurp durp they call me an oklopol
< 1321721261 565209 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's some moneys for ya
< 1321721286 897679 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone would be like oh all this money makes your skin seem so soft and seducing
< 1321721301 557231 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd be like hurp durp what's a seducing
< 1321721313 394748 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but secretly
< 1321721316 596250 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't even care-
< 1321721319 234102 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1321721333 331206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have this whole brain damage thing planned out.
< 1321721344 118031 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently.
< 1321721399 62601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were I an insurance person, I would be suspicious.
< 1321722126 494467 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321723021 854354 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone
< 1321723715 341369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321723732 482748 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321723783 567978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Robots have replaced slaves[citation needed] in the assistance of performing those repetitive and dangerous tasks which humans prefer not to do,"
< 1321723801 609303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Wikipedia, apparently oblivious of the last century.
< 1321723811 757769 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut
< 1321723817 906322 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can has link?
< 1321723842 609315 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321724190 654823 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, here I was thinking it was "underpaid labor" that replaced slaves.
< 1321724412 581358 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321724412 763835 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321724412 809127 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321724574 667949 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je PRIVMSG #esoteric : /names
< 1321724589 108588 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je PRIVMSG #esoteric :ups
< 1321724590 804301 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321725175 104838 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321725175 189680 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321725175 189822 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321725192 596100 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321725264 225637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321725712 402018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1321725718 175660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1321725722 694559 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi both
< 1321725751 689954 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi troth
< 1321725787 972170 :TheJimmyJames1!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321725827 793224 :TheJimmyJames1!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.138 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321725837 633775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at the levels of spam on esolang recently
< 1321725902 609821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't really have an opinion, so I'm going to argue against deletion."
< 1321725906 890245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does this sentence make any sense to you?
< 1321725926 63065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; I can parse it and it semantically makes sense
< 1321725946 72700 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have an opinion, and here it is
< 1321725955 51221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little inconsistent, but I can mentally expand it to "I'm an inclusionist and think pages shouldn't be deleted without a good reason"
< 1321726012 350446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there needs to be a good word to distinguish "has lax notability standards" and "thinks pages should be kept unless proven otherwise"
< 1321726032 91070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects most deletionists are aligned against the first position, not the latter
< 1321726032 136494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i suppose he was very confident about his lack of opinion being correct. he would've thought it should be removed if it was that bad.
< 1321726037 989340 :TheJimmyJames1!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321726241 110389 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-186.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321726274 223805 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-246-252.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321726282 410551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually think deletionism is a result of biased sampling
< 1321726289 373588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ TheJimmyJames1 ? welcome
< 1321726291 313650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you spent a while on Wikipedia's newpage patrol, you'd become a deletionist too
< 1321726295 919495 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TheJimmyJames1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321726298 108748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1321726307 807393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am serious about this, it almost happened to me
< 1321726316 817518 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321726334 909432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikipedia really needs to find a way to get its maintanence work done without doing it by making people obsessive :P
< 1321726351 701371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Category:Candidates for speedy deletion is currently 202% backlogged."
< 1321726366 914551 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just outsource it to the general population.
< 1321726372 116679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, cleaning out CSD is /typically/ really easy
< 1321726383 933456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it isn't, it's because overeager taggers are tagging all sorts of stuff for deletion that doesn't actually delete it
< 1321726389 173945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that A7 has got out of hand again
< 1321726396 292516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The queue at Special:NewPages is currently 20.33 days." apparently this only counts as defcon 4
< 1321726397 572191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then you get a popup requiring that you do maintenance.
< 1321726404 469261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess defcon 1 is when it's ten years backlogged
< 1321726417 188988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Administrators: Please do not delete this category even if it is empty!
< 1321726417 330092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This category may be empty occasionally or even most of the time.
< 1321726417 375250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Category:Candidates for speedy deletion
< 1321726423 919493 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321726435 468949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which one is A7?
< 1321726439 970432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, defcon 1's when there's a concerted amount of vandalism by people who know what they're doing, that also can't be cleaned up in an automated way
< 1321726446 853514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: approximately, no assertion of notability
< 1321726452 992742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, newpages defcon
< 1321726460 859509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's a newpages defcon now?
< 1321726460 904825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's so many defcons!
< 1321726467 856050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSD defcon and newpages defcon at least
< 1321726473 850532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that's much the same thing, except for vandals creating pages
< 1321726485 139395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I think it's just based on the backlog
< 1321726486 85580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, that sounds like {{adminbacklog}} not {{defcon}}
< 1321726487 565727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the captions
< 1321726501 567428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need a defcon defcon so we can know when the defcons are getting dangerously high
< 1321726551 847525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, there's only 44 pages in CSD
< 1321726564 840673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DialTel good
< 1321726667 454925 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-246-252.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :
< 1321726999 607177 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321727466 378780 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321727578 186146 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-246-252.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321727870 555336 :TheJimmyJames1!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.138 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321728329 806574 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :TheWickedChicken
< 1321728458 539165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yikes
< 1321728470 568908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all our external links headings are wrong
< 1321728477 898973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of Graue
< 1321728482 390920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me if there is something you see wrong with this program which I may have missed:  http://sprunge.us/LJeL
< 1321728505 381657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how one can judiciously decide to disregard a policy after someone already starts mass-editing a fix to it
< 1321728514 976050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it must be wrong because it is out of memory even if the module is compiled, so I must have written it wrong.
< 1321728533 147082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you use -O2?
< 1321728545 574041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need -O at least to get basic strictness analysis and -O2 can help as well
< 1321728592 756396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> type TextString = [Either Int32 Word32];
< 1321728593 697446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `type'
< 1321728598 318478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you don't want to store long strings in that
< 1321728617 37476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's full of boxes and lazy, so it'll eat up tons of memory
< 1321728669 304618 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I tried -O and -O3
< 1321728694 292732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O3 is meaningless, it means -O2
< 1321728704 962941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not meaningless :) but it's silly
< 1321728714 789758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, I suggest
< 1321728735 183768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data TextChar = Blah Int32 | Bleh Word32 deriving (Eq, Show, ...) -- with better names for the constructors
< 1321728736 96519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1321728739 683048 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function "withDVI" which is causing the out of memory never uses the "TextString" type.
< 1321728746 150026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type TextString = Vector TextChar
< 1321728758 602650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how did you determine that is what runs out of memory? profiling?
< 1321728831 498197 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I compiled the program and then loaded the compiled file and then used:   tenrm <- loadFont (Left 1000) "f:/program files2/MiKTeX/fonts/tfm/public/cm/cmr10.tfm"     withDVI "test1.dvi" (\_ _ -> return tenrm) 0 (\_ p -> return $ Just (0, pageNumbers p))
< 1321728916 126714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> withDVI_page_ :: (Word32 -> ByteString -> IO Font) -> s
< 1321728916 172194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>  -> (s -> Page -> IO (Maybe (s, t))) -> DocStat -> Word8 -> IO [t];
< 1321728917 90069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: type constructor or class `ByteString'Not in scope: type cons...
< 1321728917 237174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `->'
< 1321728919 941906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: will the resulting list be long?
< 1321728930 896237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this produces no elements until the whole thing has been calculated, and builds up thunks in memory in the meantime
< 1321728953 233868 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file "test1.dvi" has only a single page, so the resulting list will have only one element, which is its page number.
< 1321728976 204651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you tried profiling yet?
< 1321728987 419462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.4/html/users_guide/profiling.html
< 1321728994 46595 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will that display exactly what part runs out of memory?
< 1321729025 524405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not possible to determine "exactly which part" since that depends on when the allocator gives up and runs out of heap! but it will help you see which parts of the program allocate more than others
< 1321729105 714957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the +RTS -p profiling demonstrated there doesn't help, then http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.4/html/users_guide/prof-heap.html might
< 1321729111 739938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but try the first page first
< 1321729158 276717 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to compile the main module too, to make that work, or can it be used with GHCi if the Graphics.DVI module is compiled and the main commands are entered interactively?
< 1321729203 625889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a Main module, but you can just do:
< 1321729211 67159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do {   tenrm <- loadFont (Left 1000) "f:/program files2/MiKTeX/fonts/tfm/public/cm/cmr10.tfm";     withDVI "test1.dvi" (\_ _ -> return tenrm) 0 (\_ p -> return $ Just (0, pageNumbers p)) }
< 1321729216 763500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, >>= print at the end of that :)
< 1321729276 480687 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I can try that.
< 1321729350 782862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I had an idea to make @'s allocator superfast but it won't work :(
< 1321729357 8755 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?
< 1321729430 682086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, a typical allocator would look like \size -> { heapPtr += size; if (heapPtr > heapMax) jump to gc stuff; return (heapPtr - size) }.
< 1321729461 277368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was thinking, what if I just made it \size -> { x = heapPtr; heapPtr += size; return x }, and aligned things so that the heapMax was on a hardware page boundary?
< 1321729477 424373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then it'd cause a page fault when the overflow would occur when the memory is first accessed.
< 1321729484 10894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could fix things up from the handler.
< 1321729487 977557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So allocation would be branch-free.
< 1321729521 747419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem is that I'd have to have a free page after it in all circumstances, and obviously I can't just say that the @ abstract machine-local 64-bit address space only uses every other page, because that's ridiculous and means you can't have allocations bigger than a page.
< 1321729556 379500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sucks, because a two-instruction (mov + add), branchless allocator would be awesome.
< 1321729637 826048 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321729727 961077 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, it's a free page after each *heap*.
< 1321729747 479283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, well, true.
< 1321729766 878509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still, it sucks to wall off large parts of the address space for an optimisation.
< 1321729791 791670 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't *quite* work, though, because you'll need to make sure your allocation isn't bigger than a free page + what's remaining.
< 1321729819 86486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, right. Most allocations are smaller than 4 megabytes.
< 1321729825 898049 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd probably need to make the allocator select a heap of appropriate size first.
< 1321729837 502921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully static analysis could determine whether an allocation is always less than 4 megabytes in the common case...
< 1321729840 437138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since most allocations are constant-sized.
< 1321729851 975377 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that is definitely something static analysis could do.
< 1321729861 911174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much different than GCC's memcpy optimisations.
< 1321729940 655684 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using those options didn't work. I got "out of memory" and an empty .prof file
< 1321729985 934654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: huh. try the http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.4/html/users_guide/prof-heap.html style of profiling? Alternatively, just terminate the program before it runs out of memory (with Ctrl+C or similar)
< 1321729990 577695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll make the .prof be generated
< 1321730092 262811 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs very fast; there is no time for Ctrl+C
< 1321730125 622383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You could try running it on even smaller inputs so that it doesn't run out of memory and produces a report that you can optimise memory use based on.
< 1321730295 898861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it with only an "X" on the page; that also runs out of memory. Trying it with only a rule (no text, not even the page number) succeeds.
< 1321730321 850445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, look at the profiling report for that then :-) Beyond that I don't really have much idea; ask #haskell.
< 1321730610 256199 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321730661 147388 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321731103 622974 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321731114 698736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ pagnol ? welcome
< 1321731116 808419 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pagnol: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321731345 186 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard drive came
< 1321731367 223038 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : No internal screws though, and even if I had, I don't see a place to put them
< 1321731386 143202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hard drive
< 1321731400 720844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1321731498 2390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t catMaybes >=> listToMaybe
< 1321731499 67973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match expected type `[c]' against inferred type `Maybe a'
< 1321731499 158964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `(>=>)', namely `listToMaybe'
< 1321731499 204345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the expression: catMaybes >=> listToMaybe
< 1321731503 546698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t catMaybes
< 1321731504 683508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [Maybe a] -> [a]
< 1321731510 877370 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New hard drive for my old laptop which I've been using
< 1321731512 453923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \xs -> listToMaybe (catMaybes xs)
< 1321731513 400777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [Maybe a] -> Maybe a
< 1321731524 641774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm
< 1321731526 399679 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Foiled again!
< 1321731533 208606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hi
< 1321731541 660661 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good afternoon.
< 1321731554 99215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good afternoon to be foiled
< 1321731561 505787 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you think you would find an actual use case for (>=>)?
< 1321731574 244126 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That operator is forever going to be "nice to express the monad laws in" and nothing more.
< 1321731598 478913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I use (>=>) with... semi-relative frequency.
< 1321731625 714684 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-relative to zero?
< 1321731626 67766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: See, I get "f x = doCrapWith x >>= processMagic", and zomg!
< 1321731651 1890 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg, indeed. I couldn't have put it better myself.
< 1321731677 825617 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I tend to think in terms of do notation, then, if simple, translate to operators?
< 1321731722 666524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, we're not qualified Haskell therapists.
< 1321731743 409722 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell us more about you tend to think in terms of do notation, SgeoN1.
< 1321732110 272517 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321732352 609924 :TheWickedChicken!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321732721 475898 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: YES, YE SHALL BE LYNCHED
< 1321732879 383636 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321732879 479970 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321732879 525256 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321733043 780645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess whether it's OK or not to have a free page after every heap depends on how big heaps will be.
< 1321733101 420067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shouldn't it be "pool", not heap?)
< 1321733217 590833 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321733614 215485 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1321733639 757284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321733658 342154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, an @ system only has one heap.
< 1321733668 501255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That actually might be the definition of an @ system.)
< 1321733699 93286 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is a bad sign
< 1321733818 603429 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could've sworn that the total number heaps that all @ systems in existence have is zero.
< 1321733838 560020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You're a bad person.
< 1321733851 208605 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321733860 780254 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would, like, totally use @.
< 1321733902 686347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK you are granted minimum decency status.
< 1321733927 710746 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...If it only had a better name.
< 1321733948 265990 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, "@" is a placeholder.
< 1321733963 42245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: @ ISN'T THE NAME
< 1321733966 534066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills everyone
< 1321733978 268975 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So what's "@"?
< 1321733990 253497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: A macro for the English language that expands to the name of @.
< 1321734009 217510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's just that nobody knows what it is yet, so whenver you use it, your sentence gains an indeterminate amount of words, letters, and sense.
< 1321734009 783475 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why didn't it expand just then when you said "@ ISN'T THE NAME"?
< 1321734020 537046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Lisp macros don't expand when you type out a use of them in Emacs!
< 1321734025 704731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see.
< 1321734029 314188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, use-mention distinction.
< 1321734033 843052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: I was just lying! For FUN!
< 1321734039 702666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you I hate you.
< 1321734041 975720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"BAH"
< 1321734087 213224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321734095 944738 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hug elliott
< 1321734096 384910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
< 1321734104 337939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the worst bug.
< 1321734146 635874 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is just afraid of picking a name because if it's a suboptimal name, the system won't be perfect anymore.
< 1321734150 123244 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike the rest of @.
< 1321734185 703919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: See, you think you're joking, but no, that's literally the exact reason I won't pick a name.
< 1321734197 317295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (Although I don't think @ is perfect, I'm just really indecisive about names.)
< 1321734231 599682 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /whois ec
< 1321734247 70470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know who that is.
< 1321734254 532522 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1321734260 191473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What's your point?
< 1321734292 69548 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't got a point.
< 1321734310 828313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep.
< 1321734976 706171 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmmmm PEZ
< 1321735330 95995 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321735339 580740 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-50.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321735382 813015 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEZ!
< 1321735392 366658 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inoserite!
< 1321735423 990053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no serite.
< 1321735435 947371 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, nose.
< 1321735461 567748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rite?
< 1321735552 492329 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I broke ARM.
< 1321735601 485214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: RIP ARM.
< 1321735605 636880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try it on PEZ.
< 1321735722 760825 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best thing about PEZ is that you not only get candy, you're also at the same time practicing killing people by wringing their necks.
< 1321735745 797156 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use the dispensers.
< 1321735751 274764 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel they cheapen the candy.
< 1321735759 75197 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They redirect the focus improperly.
< 1321735761 831112 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you don't get any murder practice.
< 1321735771 661257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1321735780 785298 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get plenty of murder practice every Sunday at the docks.
< 1321735896 205792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know, a stopgap until Graue finally upgrades MediaWiki and improves the anti-spam stuff would be to have a spam-deletion bot.
< 1321735927 52625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, you missed "Touches on free mobile dating sites in the comment" and "User:Shopfitting11".
< 1321735932 720524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't, I'm just being lazy
< 1321735937 284183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get to them eventually
< 1321735963 879143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I said "missed" because you deleted other pages in the interim.
< 1321735974 851358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they appeared out of order in my feed
< 1321735979 126187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1321735985 91420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, in the update after the one that gave me the pages I actually deleted
< 1321735990 948689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know /why/ the feed is so out of order, btw
< 1321736022 472599 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321736069 797755 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321736074 362136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1321736085 143938 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello elliott
< 1321736155 849591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you use the RSS or Atom feed?
< 1321736167 55865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember
< 1321736178 188627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both contain the same info, though, IIRC
< 1321736186 440940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but one might be less buggily generated.
< 1321736203 285693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either the Atom one because Atom is a newer/more modern standard, or RSS because Atom was immature when this ancient MW version came out.
< 1321736311 592552 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: I've occasionally considered the idea of "static duck typing" though I don't really know if type inference is possible.
< 1321736323 571080 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called structural typing and ocaml has it
< 1321736324 300206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ocaml object system
< 1321736327 881096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *hi5*
< 1321736338 368917 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hi5*
< 1321736352 742437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessssssss
< 1321736424 903357 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall that ocaml's polymorphic records also involve that, perhaps in a simpler way.  and that no one uses ocaml's object system anyway.
< 1321736440 56724 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that polymorphic variants.  or both.
< 1321736443 69102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i may have meant its records.
< 1321736451 715856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think i did.
< 1321736457 266541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml is so ugly.
< 1321736541 599311 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've forgotten most of it beyond the basics.
< 1321736619 792706 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose learning it first may have helped me learning haskell.
< 1321736705 1177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure any strict, impure language can help with haskell. but i suppose ADTs are a good basis
< 1321736738 160957 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm it certainly helps with the _type_ system basics, hindley-milner you know
< 1321736756 185367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that too.
< 1321736759 668455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apart from that ''a stuff :P
< 1321736761 707542 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also higher order functions.
< 1321736776 9157 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'd seen those before in lisp
< 1321736777 362670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I suppose it helps a bit :)
< 1321736785 172204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just doesn't eliminate the learning curve
< 1321736904 483455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I wonder how expensive it would be to give every single thread its own pool...
< 1321736911 398720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: (I want threads at least as lightweight as GHC's)
< 1321736916 72371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "way too".
< 1321736970 419288 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321737184 533954 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Ngevd: again in a fresh memo later be sent you a copy of knitting for assholes
< 1321737185 48858 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just as i was initially believed they were new additions. for that. busy
< 1321737186 804124 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :724)  Ngevd: again in a fresh memo later be sent you a copy of knitting for assholes
< 1321737191 848078 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, it would probably actually dramatically reduce GC overhead.
< 1321737206 456765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in fact, Erlang does precisely that.
< 1321737218 455153 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each Erlang process has its own pool.
< 1321737235 773055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc ghc also gives each thread its own pool, but only in the first generation
< 1321737256 866314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, but Erlang processes aren't /that/ lightweight.
< 1321737260 726593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have millions of GHC threads easily.
< 1321737264 900058 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321737274 636066 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, GHC threads are even more lightweight than Erlang processes.
< 1321737289 375696 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of which are much more lightweight than "real" processes or threads.
< 1321737292 67451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh
< 1321737294 432622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wonder how big the pools are
< 1321737295 455378 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it annoying when you have an amazing revelation then realise it would be ABSOLUTELY USELESS?
< 1321737325 4589 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the "nursery", it's called, it's what allows the concurrent gc
< 1321737333 694927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1321737344 266675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 kilobytes, heh
< 1321737352 600477 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, C-style for loops in Lambda Calculus
< 1321737360 366804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i definitely need lots of pools, since the heap is like 1 Tio
< 1321737362 879825 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can of course only contain objects not referenced from other threads, a problem which erlang doesn't have
< 1321737368 634372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stopping the world would be problematic :P
< 1321737383 401466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, so things like IORefs allocate their backing storage on something more shared?
< 1321737389 936213 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb|Hovercraft
< 1321737394 699283 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well ghc's concurrent gc still stops the world, unless they've changed it
< 1321737408 702448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that reduces to two levels in @, thread-local and global...
< 1321737413 377299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh you mean parallel ghc ofc
< 1321737414 778056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not concurrent
< 1321737420 228024 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321737425 517829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :parallel = gc uses threads
< 1321737428 203376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent = gc runs with program
< 1321737459 393118 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall they're trying to remove that and make it concurrent
< 1321737472 32347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there any hope for non-copying collectors? :'(
< 1321737477 726458 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they already did, very recently
< 1321737502 97581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't think so
< 1321737502 736764 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Any hope of what?
< 1321737512 357868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not being worse than copying collectors :P
< 1321737526 192089 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perhaps when we're on many-many-many-core.
< 1321737550 304879 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah, I can adapt my idea into something awesome!
< 1321737576 924348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Soooo not helpful :P
< 1321737589 212186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I could probably do a copying collector, if I have enough pools.
< 1321737594 504445 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't know if IORefs allocate outside the nursery _immediately_, or just when they get set to something in another thread
< 1321737600 191850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd only need, like, a few gigs free at a time, not a terabyte.
< 1321737612 897551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok
< 1321737652 29343 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How annoying would it be to repartition such that I have more swap space, and should I do so?
< 1321737665 417749 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably part of the same copying that ensures you cannot have a reference from an older generation to a younger
< 1321737666 926351 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a 1GB machine, and the installer decided to give me 1GB of swap
< 1321737683 569716 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(approx.)
< 1321737690 83125 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, anymore you should be heavily tempted to just not have swap.
< 1321737692 809370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap space as a similar size to main memory is the usual guideline
< 1321737705 704298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1.5* for smaller systems
< 1321737709 49715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Uh no, 1 gig is nothing.
< 1321737714 17090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you consider 1GB a smaller system?
< 1321737716 401062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 gig of swap miight be OK, but I'd shoot for 2 gigs.
< 1321737717 950320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course it is.
< 1321737732 902294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm using 1 gig ATM, on x86_64 (which, of course, uses more memory)
< 1321737737 34908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nobody but zzo has < 1 gig, and no "usual" (even netbook) computer sold today has fewer than 1-2 gigs.
< 1321737747 443512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 gigs is very common on cheap consumer machines.
< 1321737758 310853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 8-16 gigs is becoming common on the high end.
< 1321737761 639681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, 1 gig is small.
< 1321737764 779492 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does need to be able to run MonoDevelop without crying
< 1321737776 13 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get more RAM
< 1321737784 532684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swapping like crazy is "with crying".
< 1321737801 412230 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still has 800 something Mb, actually
< 1321737827 593425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with swap is, you're in serious trouble if it's actually used for the foreground process
< 1321737835 898994 :derrik_!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321737859 323398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now would be a good time to mention how much better @ is with swapping?
< 1321737891 917667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /does/ @ do with swapping?
< 1321737897 620516 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is @ going to be released in the next 10 years?
< 1321737907 922008 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: RAM is considered disk cache.
< 1321737913 126936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ah, ofc
< 1321737918 253794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more a case of antiswapping
< 1321737922 946591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swapping out of RAM, rather than onto disk
< 1321737924 438953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: not /quite/, you can have things in the cache that aren't on disk
< 1321737925 466001 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 253 seconds
< 1321737930 987515 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah you're going to need that precognitive swap algorithm that someone asked me to write years ago
< 1321737932 901921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like, RAM is the first few GC generations, and whatever's being use
< 1321737933 400729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1321737940 798942 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just too bad i never did
< 1321737942 124445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft, no, elliott will be too busy... I don't actually know.
< 1321737946 23679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and disk is all generations apart from the first few
< 1321737948 904678 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's still the shortest way of describing @'s memory model. :P
< 1321737949 643168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making ElliottCraft?
< 1321737952 295908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat :P
< 1321737952 341141 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321737961 877113 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I assume it's less crying with an HD than with USB stick like I was doing before?
< 1321737972 867968 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't know if he was joking or severely overestimating me
< 1321737978 505561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I will still be trying to find out how you do numerical integration for gravity without it being crazy inaccurate.
< 1321737980 72038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1321737987 812646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: were you talking about synchronicity or sth :P
< 1321737991 718213 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're still dealing with human-noticable latencies for disk access.
< 1321737997 895451 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spinning disks are *really* slow.
< 1321738000 256980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can't you just rip off that JS thing :P
< 1321738020 883445 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, this was long before i learned of synchronicity.  back in the mid-90s at the latest
< 1321738038 828429 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :human-noticable is not as bad as human-tearing-his-hair-out-for-10-minutes
< 1321738048 469612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Did the page you randomly turned to feature the http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sch%C3%A9ma_synchronicit%C3%A9_in_English.png diagram?
< 1321738057 312182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd convince me.
< 1321738063 942554 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc he suggested it would be nice with a swap algorithm which could guess what needed to be swapped in next
< 1321738074 75951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he ripped off a JS Library, in the sense of "code which is ~optomised~ to the point of taking too much work to unravel."
< 1321738084 213354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that's doable, precognition isn't :P
< 1321738090 343926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether it /works/ well is another question)
< 1321738108 38557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does optomisation mean?
< 1321738125 419922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows?
< 1321738141 177578 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that horizontal axis is something i've thought about before, the vertical not so much.
< 1321738144 282499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's what only terse can give you.
< 1321738149 893570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *TERSE
< 1321738150 887121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hmm, surrounding the word with ~ = sarcasm marks on a single word?
< 1321738176 572503 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ~probably~
< 1321738178 377758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the main use of sarcasm marks I've seen, by which I mean it's what elliott does.
< 1321738191 588124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.terse.com/pics/topyello.gif
< 1321738194 943949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTOMIZED
< 1321738197 238672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERSE
< 1321738198 339206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFORMANCE
< 1321738208 860489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :op-to-mize vt [Gk optos + ISV -mize] : to make as aesthetically perfect, effective, or functional to the eye as possible.
< 1321738221 878907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, like optical optimization?
< 1321738242 979760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! It's TERSE! Assembly language with ADDED FUN!
< 1321738249 721979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prefix! Infix! Postfix!
< 1321738257 428203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS-compatible! Windows-compatible!
< 1321738260 633905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill Gates approved!
< 1321738269 93315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lose Wait(tm) with TERSE(tm) today!
< 1321738275 245426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what; I've decided that unary minus is a really annoying operator
< 1321738281 401060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I swear to god the "Lose Wait" thing is a direct quote.)
< 1321738350 830618 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskellers agree
< 1321738379 726570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do OCamlers (where it has a different notation from - in a lot of contexts as - would be ambiguous)
< 1321738388 993019 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely it should be "Loose Wait"?
< 1321738392 269715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw him a few days later he was jubilant! "Wow! I hadn't realized how easy it was to write in  . I began translating my stuff and gave up on it. It was much simpler just to write everything directly in  . Not only did I totally re-write several weeks worth of code, but I wrote a bunch of other routines too." "I told you," I replied. "With   you're free to work on the problem, not the assembly language syntax. There's no need to invent label
< 1321738392 315031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s, think about reversing conditionals, your typing is significantly reduced, and..." He butted in, "And you can see the structure of the program right on the screen! There is no need to make a listing and draw out the looping structure with a pen, and..." I couldn't get another word in, so I just let him talk as he continued to espouse the virtues of  .
< 1321738394 711724 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, someone has pinged me.
< 1321738400 609029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: boo!
< 1321738401 198990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scrolls up
< 1321738401 991022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put the "TERSE"s back in from the logos there, but I think it might be better without.
< 1321738493 89586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good it wasn't elliott pinging me.
< 1321738494 772610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm safe.
< 1321738498 460727 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i had to copy and paste to find out if you'd really removed the name or if it was a crazy unicode thing
< 1321738501 381163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet sucks.
< 1321738503 686678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh
< 1321738504 743671 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321738507 628672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: each one is an individual 
< 1321738509 230388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no alt text
< 1321738512 292844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.terse.com/pics/terse22p.gif
< 1321738513 805718 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1321738521 746621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.terse.com/reluctan.htm
< 1321738534 275266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of italics and bold in the black-on-yellow 90s style makes it lose something in translation
< 1321738538 917492 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very  language
< 1321738549 840653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321738568 185655 :derrik_!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone
< 1321738602 390056 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet sucks. <-- hey i was afraid he'd suck so much he didn't notice at all
< 1321738625 874724 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( :( :( :( :(
< 1321738652 862759 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's always dangerous to talk to people who've idled for 12 hours
< 1321738662 247490 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Terse?
< 1321738666 824288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft:  .
< 1321738676 530744 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: The  st language of all!
< 1321738687 823312 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that helps a lot
< 1321738697 472298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: http://www.terse.com/
< 1321738738 19911 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA THE YELLOW, IT BURNS
< 1321738764 521103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's assembly that does control structures for you?
< 1321738769 199212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. PUSSY ASSEMBLY
< 1321738780 428913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLUS SYMBOLICS!!! INFIX!!!!
< 1321738780 797184 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be my 1/8 vampire genes
< 1321738781 907601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. C?
< 1321738794 372488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NO ITS TERSE
< 1321738805 410314 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recommend gooling "pussy assembly"
< 1321738810 293219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*googling
< 1321738815 213370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no.
< 1321738815 382915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "external resources" is such an ugly heading :(
< 1321738825 952777 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey if someone wants to assemble a pussy, i'm not going to stop them.
< 1321738828 450877 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with SafeSearch off, even.
< 1321738834 193065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C specifies a fair bit of memory management stuff as well.
< 1321738859 397020 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I think brainfuck could be more readable
< 1321738875 919480 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: more readable than what?
< 1321738878 922455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of confusing.
< 1321738881 911218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way lies brick/brain exchange.
< 1321738882 836066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you would think that.
< 1321738883 593297 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Terse
< 1321738902 583080 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.  i was afraid you were considering making a derivative.
< 1321738909 278630 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHEW*
< 1321738941 801843 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first esolang was an unpublished Ook! derivative
< 1321738955 46745 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow terse's website is SO AWESOME
< 1321738966 828220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yellow.
< 1321738968 846046 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime probably in 2008
< 1321738972 504274 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....Maybe I shouldn't have gone for encrypted home
< 1321738977 672379 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, it implies encrypted swap
< 1321738988 628907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no?
< 1321739003 226281 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your home and your swap are completely separate from each other... >_>
< 1321739014 104384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming linux.
< 1321739016 349368 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, it is strongly recommended that you encrypt your swap space. Users installing from Ubuntu 9.10 and selecting the Encrypted Home option will automatically have encrypted swap space. "
< 1321739024 149740 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would they change it after 9.10?
< 1321739024 304449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321739028 12418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird.
< 1321739032 37753 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY NEVER TOLD ME THAT.
< 1321739045 902954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway encrpytion isn't a problem, it's a good thing.
< 1321739082 941360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's wrong with encrypted swap
< 1321739109 478605 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, slower, I'd assume
< 1321739116 179716 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha
< 1321739119 381333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like swapping just isn't slow enough.
< 1321739123 85799 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could I make it slower?
< 1321739125 717411 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW!
< 1321739135 757884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: disk is much slower than cpu.
< 1321739178 446540 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, *RAM* is slower than CPU anymore.
< 1321739199 324622 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even CPU is slower than CPU these days*.
< 1321739202 982804 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321739243 589263 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit even the speed of light is slower than CPUs now.
< 1321739307 725679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but yeah encryption is either imperceptible or minor overhead on top of a disk operation.
< 1321739319 8677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, how often do you actually use your swap?
< 1321739322 990299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use mine at all.
< 1321739326 977538 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the time!
< 1321739330 202409 :Taneb|Hovercraft!540d532b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.83.43 QUIT :
< 1321739348 455193 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, apparently I don't.
< 1321739350 86611 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm I'm apparently using 330 MBs of swap right now. :P
< 1321739382 582368 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yesterday I accidentally tried to compute a big Integer in ghci and I ended up using quite a lot of swap before I managed to kill it.
< 1321739389 883791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo swapoff -a
< 1321739391 610184 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahahahahaha
< 1321739400 407002 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm sure your OS has better things to do with that RAM.
< 1321739408 705185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters under his breath about "evillllll"
< 1321739461 516642 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 QUIT :
< 1321739527 69153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem I have with my encrypted home is that
< 1321739529 990911 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my computer died
< 1321739535 616979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have no way to access everything
< 1321739539 89595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know the key. :P
< 1321739543 912589 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memorize the key.
< 1321739553 294927 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't even know where to find it.
< 1321739561 613459 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs to write a program that turns arbitrary bytestrings into something that's easy for humans to memorize.
< 1321739598 908064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I was just going to do the old write-it-down trick.
< 1321739606 593507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when the FBI raid my home they can easily find it!
< 1321739612 316161 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, man, memorize it!
< 1321739619 689454 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do that.
< 1321739630 307755 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could apply a simple Caesar cipher to it
< 1321739633 775148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll never figure that shit out!
< 1321739795 378056 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, if you don't know the key, then it must be stored on the computer, and wth is then the point of encrypted home?
< 1321739800 388369 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ARM fixt.
< 1321739814 953253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Horey.
< 1321739829 958527 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whorey.
< 1321739985 184219 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321740219 922490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoary
< 1321740228 171592 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :t \xs -> listToMaybe (catMaybes xs)
< 1321740229 778257 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321740243 422384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you need the key to open the drive...
< 1321740249 470947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's... encrypted
< 1321740250 301133 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [Nothing, Just 3, Just 4]
< 1321740251 237768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
< 1321740251 394068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `Data.Monoid.Monoid a'
< 1321740251 439310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...
< 1321740252 915868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was thinking of something involving join first, which was what all that monadery was about.
< 1321740253 965487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the encrypted drive contains the key.
< 1321740263 682460 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321740264 279147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> choice [Nothing, Just 3]
< 1321740265 193251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `choice'
< 1321740270 837581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Alternative f => [f a] -> f a
< 1321740271 297718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a
< 1321740271 516609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad msum :: MonadPlus m => [m a] -> m a
< 1321740271 561942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<|>) :: Alternative f => f a -> f a -> f a
< 1321740281 737273 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [Nothing, Just 3, Just (4 :: Int)]
< 1321740282 794039 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int)
< 1321740282 925636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of...
< 1321740290 317946 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321740290 418739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a wrapper-type Monoid insatnce
< 1321740291 279681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance
< 1321740292 936225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a semantic-type one
< 1321740294 522723 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321740295 61867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(terms I just made up)
< 1321740299 475153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> asum [Nothing, Just 3, Just (4 :: Int)]
< 1321740300 688171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `asum'
< 1321740302 999984 :bd_!~nanashi@satoko.is.fushizen.net PART :#esoteric
< 1321740303 45200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:(
< 1321740306 71171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Data.Foldable.asum [Nothing, Just 3, Just (4 :: Int)]
< 1321740307 170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 3
< 1321740309 965817 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> msum [Nothing, Just 3, Just 4]
< 1321740311 67734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Just 3
< 1321740336 589211 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm biscuit syrup
< 1321740361 402440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all governments should be biscuit syrup.
< 1321740363 958152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway, listToMaybe [x | C x <- xs] is quite a nice pattern
< 1321740387 640035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :listToMaybe [ x+y | Foo x y <- xs, x < y ]
< 1321740388 247752 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um my point is, how can you then get the computer started without knowing the key?  even if it's otherwise in order?
< 1321740392 788178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like find but with deconstruction :P
< 1321740396 667613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...
< 1321740402 238113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> Maybe b
< 1321740402 741961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m ()
< 1321740402 943595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m ()
< 1321740402 989009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad forM_ :: Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m ()
< 1321740430 320840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh well I think the code might be based on your password (???)
< 1321740442 144332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all it seems to need is my password to access the drive.
< 1321740533 683400 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well
< 1321740647 944241 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmmm but I do need a mount passphrase which it apparently gave me and I probably didn't write down.
< 1321740654 43284 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want to manually recover the drive.
< 1321740763 725199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking I can use my login passphrase with a newly installed Ubuntu OS and it will be able to unmount it somehow (?????)
< 1321740772 234115 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to this wiki page.
< 1321740833 72073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "ditto" is not an ideal edit comment when you're dittoing something on another page
< 1321740842 742949 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321740850 313675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IT WAS SO TEDIOUS
< 1321740858 601843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that I apparently forgot it for about five edits :P
< 1321740948 298671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got all the spam now, I think
< 1321740966 720905 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so FRP would be a good choice for... say, a physics simulator within a game like df?
< 1321740990 248089 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is FRP not an ideal choice for?
< 1321740998 41363 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: network IO, apparently.
< 1321741018 46905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*certain kinds of network io
< 1321741020 949774 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm?
< 1321741024 580199 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is curious now
< 1321741075 105355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also things where you're not reacting to time-based events.
< 1321741077 449054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6812533/am-i-using-reactive-banana-right is a decent example.
< 1321741078 288287 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or external input.
< 1321741079 899162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp.: @Ben Ford: I've added a small remark to the answer. I don't know what you want to do with the sockets, so I can't tell you whether FRP is overkill for your purpose. Basically, if your event network won't grow much larger than this one with a single accumE and some filterE, then it's more elegantly done without FRP. – Heinrich Apfelmus Jul 25 at 16:16
< 1321741104 891644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also FRP is obviously not very well suited to "conversational" style UIs, where you're literally doing things in sequence: ask user for command, do something, repeat.
< 1321741152 733271 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321741209 429036 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the wikipedia article for FRP so bad.
< 1321741360 363434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but perhaps some of this bloat could be resolved if your language provided built-in support for FRP similar to what Haskell does with monads.
< 1321741363 282612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an idea.
< 1321741383 659677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's fair to say that this is too much code for a simple networking task.
< 1321741383 741586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell offers exactly one bit of language support: do notation.
< 1321741390 549463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not much.
< 1321741418 64390 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly makes things like, say, simple networking tasks, not quite as annoying.
< 1321741431 33145 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted
< 1321741466 278431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's /easy/ to fit monads to an synchronous style of programming, but FRP doesn't work that way.
< 1321741648 907033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: You might be interested in Clue.
< 1321741661 612719 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the whodunnit game?
< 1321741663 351272 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love clue!
< 1321741668 271195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_%28oklopol%29.
< 1321741676 461211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_%28oklopol%29/Quicksort and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_%28oklopol%29/SKI_calculus are more helpful than the article.
< 1321741678 909354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re: your talk in #haskell.
< 1321741679 586175 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it oklopol naked?
< 1321741686 624820 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321741689 764269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321741691 871076 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for asking
< 1321741700 713357 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bites oklopol
< 1321741710 532735 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why would you do that
< 1321741726 258878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue is the worst game
< 1321741726 757402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever
< 1321741728 421168 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just nasty
< 1321741758 556952 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about my clue
< 1321741759 402583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ca
< 1321741760 746954 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people just prefer to be clueless
< 1321741763 776491 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ca
< 1321741768 409749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no the shitty board game.
< 1321741770 872275 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's an awesome game
< 1321741772 820517 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321741814 886257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't played it, what do you actually do in it
< 1321741825 596707 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you have a more serious discussion of this language
< 1321741826 943816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you roll dice, move your little piece across a huge square map
< 1321741828 332452 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go into rooms
< 1321741832 741791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_%28oklopol%29/Quicksort http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_%28oklopol%29/SKI_calculus
< 1321741833 699782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's pretty much the game.
< 1321741834 850896 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a reference to something related, but serious?
< 1321741837 271720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I linked you to the examples for a reason.
< 1321741838 548668 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: sorry, no.
< 1321741854 284765 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: where is your inspiration for this coming from?
< 1321741859 585550 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for clue?
< 1321741861 611469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's apparently called cluedo outside the states.
< 1321741862 536976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I always loved how half the game is moving pieces around a square grid.
< 1321741870 555595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes that's my favorite part
< 1321741877 818539 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by favorite I mean the worst part about it.
< 1321741880 57131 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes
< 1321741883 591601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you could camp by blocking a dor.
< 1321741885 693242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*door
< 1321741896 480341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: If you think it's not serious, then keep in mind that those programs actually work. :p
< 1321741897 372562 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think you can elect to not move.
< 1321741899 812968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same inspiration that makes everyone come up with the basic idea of example-based computation.
< 1321741903 479817 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an obvious idea
< 1321741903 613133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think you have to use all of your moves in a turn
< 1321741909 762912 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by more serious i mean publishable
< 1321741913 162774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but, I guess it's still possible.
< 1321741915 365482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, sure but doors have two blockable squares.
< 1321741921 538020 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i see. ok
< 1321741921 680843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just move between the two.
< 1321741927 235757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sorry, I thought you asked "does anyone have any info about", not "does anyone haev any papers about".
< 1321741939 344315 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, epdort
< 1321741949 818944 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt know there was such a thing as example based programming
< 1321741951 263929 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1321741955 272901 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: but certainly not trying to make anything serious about it
< 1321741958 598736 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs RSS when you have Sgeo.
< 1321741990 234273 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: there isn't, because i'm the only one who has made it work to any extent. also that may not be true, but no one has corrected me yet.
< 1321742000 443523 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321742003 154819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone in one of the Homestuck channel is keeping a log of all typos
< 1321742039 471611 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course while making it work, i made it lose most of its practical usefulness. that may not usually be desired.
< 1321742052 268045 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a noble pursuit.
< 1321742095 676341 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i say most? i meant all of it.
< 1321742160 793153 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so you dont know of anyone else who's done this sort of thing
< 1321742163 805194 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's the issue I'm having with my graph automata thing.
< 1321742168 290835 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have source for the Clue compiler?
< 1321742177 812111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't devise 9 states that do anything practical.
< 1321742178 880423 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no. and yes, it's probably somewhere....
< 1321742183 911571 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe I should just... not make it practical.
< 1321742185 870108 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that sounds good.
< 1321742187 563863 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the slowest thing in the universe
< 1321742193 721146 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you accurately describe the process?
< 1321742251 176395 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i can, but i don't really feel like doing that right now
< 1321742257 179372 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or anything really)
< 1321742262 40729 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\
< 1321742263 138538 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321742270 865937 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why u so interested all of a sudden?
< 1321742401 648792 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you don't really need to be able to answer, but anyhow what i can do is put the link back up
< 1321742422 154677 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can technically find out more. assuming this is the newest version of the interpiler.
< 1321742442 645565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: does it still have the ugly <>s :(
< 1321742459 224782 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i think that's now always id
< 1321742465 182490 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and omitted
< 1321742484 66542 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a way better way to do conditionals, but it's yet to be implemented because i work on this like a day every two years
< 1321742503 87451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well yeah that's the GENIUS CHANGE I made
< 1321742508 214533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just didn't know you merged it back in :P
< 1321742508 259864 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321742514 625343 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321742515 314840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it wouldn't work like that
< 1321742517 458425 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean making it id
< 1321742517 887597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i did it
< 1321742519 65797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it worked
< 1321742519 556424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321742521 630841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you were like
< 1321742522 357652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott
< 1321742525 254787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are the biggest genius
< 1321742528 927711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i ever repay you
< 1321742529 861988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :humbly,
< 1321742530 858669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol
< 1321742537 988121 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh.
< 1321742547 145376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :big dude for big people.
< 1321742550 808056 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cool, i guess i could reduce your debt a bit.
< 1321742559 710592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what debt. oh that thing.
< 1321742564 475269 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :here i thought your ideas were really stupid
< 1321742580 159135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the new way is so completely different that i won't even start to explain it
< 1321742617 593967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't remember exactly what it is
< 1321742674 152106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 different states might be too many.
< 1321742676 929166 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :on friday we talked about my colleague's new esolang for like half the workday
< 1321742677 597768 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 5 is good.
< 1321742687 968648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other half we played my newest game
< 1321742737 208938 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need some way to connect subgraphs together...
< 1321742751 750543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what
< 1321742755 390687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which game
< 1321742761 564225 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp:s rant sounds interesting but i think i won't ask anyway
< 1321742772 482800 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a few balls and a lot of cubes.
< 1321742789 783648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically an fps, just for a game programming course, nothing particularly interesting
< 1321742789 963408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm working on a graph automata. Like a CA but with a graph instead of an discrete infinte 2d space of whatevers.
< 1321742816 143693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i wanna play anyway but FIIIINE
< 1321742825 443920 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can when it's done
< 1321742832 193959 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1321742836 748575 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we decide to try to sell it for laughs and giggles
< 1321742842 636879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could: buy it.
< 1321742847 475165 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's actually a lot of fun)
< 1321742849 652292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the basic idea so far is that the node states are numbers, and higher numbers take precedence over lower numbers with respect to figuring out which rules to apply.
< 1321742895 740469 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could. when it's done. or you can just have it for free if it's free. when it's done.
< 1321742929 626279 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, basically all I've got, other than some ideas like "this node rotates all of its children so that they swap subgraphs" and "this node deletes child nodes that are even when its degree is odd, and odd children when its degree is even"
< 1321742936 453912 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other things that don't really fit together in any coherent way.
< 1321742993 491887 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rule is always applied to a single node at once?
< 1321742999 386583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i promised myself i wouldn't ask
< 1321743010 849125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, guess? I'm not sure what you mean.
< 1321743013 287449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "at once"
< 1321743017 521525 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i just won't listen, i'll fire questions and ignore you mwahaha
< 1321743041 463578 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know how ca apply the rule everywhere, do you just have like a calculation of where the rule should be applied next and iterate this
< 1321743052 603559 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321743062 994939 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you apply to each node, and just order these in some way because the rules can change the graph itself
< 1321743070 555391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one.
< 1321743092 624685 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this might be interesting, i'll take a look at the end product when you finish
< 1321743098 40268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha,
< 1321743103 153491 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha. "finish"
< 1321743139 627469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue I'm having is that I don't really know how you would program with such a thing.
< 1321743156 195432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess, like most CA, it's kind of non-obvious.
< 1321743178 420456 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also creating new nodes and attaching subgraphs together is kind of an open question.
< 1321743229 871601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go with 10 states (0-9) then I could have some numbers that connect together automatically, so "all 1s connect to all 9s, and vice versa"
< 1321743237 83967 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "all 5s connect to all other 5s"
< 1321743308 964437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how do I create nodes, I think I'd need a way to increment the state of a node.
< 1321743320 995717 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell
< 1321743358 468968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one rule could be "this state creates a new 0 node on some condition" and then have rules by which a node could change its state value.....
< 1321743361 598881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but......
< 1321743367 758823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a huge clusterfuck :P
< 1321743444 383008 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321743445 910560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi coppro
< 1321743448 640261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want the rules to be somewhat simple, nothing involving paths or cycles or subgraph properties, so that it can compute steps efficiently.
< 1321743473 279066 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321743608 9129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for conditional rules I was thinking I could utilize number parity (do this for (even|odd) degree, or do that to all (even|odd) children) and maybe summation of child nodes (when the sum of all child nodes = X, do this)
< 1321743704 481526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :graph rewriting would be so much easier :P  (for me, not the computer)
< 1321743731 434037 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are Reader Writer and State Monoids?
< 1321743737 152072 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION headaches
< 1321743744 521081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321743782 409714 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not a binary operation with an identity element!
< 1321743791 699495 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mind blown
< 1321743806 846211 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: er, you are not misspelling "Monads"?
< 1321743811 835396 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I am not.
< 1321743817 394170 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/monoid-transformer/0.0.2/doc/html/Data-Monoid-State.html
< 1321743829 697051 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searched due to seeing a package in Synaptic
< 1321743851 661662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cute
< 1321743868 710171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does the moral equivalent of mappend <$> m <*> s
< 1321743873 389322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s/m'/
< 1321743902 298841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you read the source code or was it obvious from the Monoid instance.
< 1321743918 517957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the monoid instance's code
< 1321743947 981656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but it's still pretty obvious from the instance itself.
< 1321743954 859514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid a => Monoid (T s a)
< 1321743958 521341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, wonder what that could do.
< 1321743997 419966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't tell you how it threads the state at all.
< 1321744006 651698 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes.
< 1321744020 866407 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1321744024 757452 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering why they used a new type.. and not just the original State monad?
< 1321744046 928828 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they used the name pure.....
< 1321744071 131018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the dependency on transformers or mtl?
< 1321744076 688317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to avoid semantic confusion?
< 1321744092 61412 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321744105 865009 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too cautious..
< 1321744130 298903 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but isn't _every_ Monad a Monoid under a similar interpretation.
< 1321744148 452668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, because there's no /binding/
< 1321744151 850467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like an applicative
< 1321744162 305382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the state is threaded
< 1321744168 837168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't thread the result
< 1321744176 770358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321744185 418132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can /maybe/ define a monoid for every monad like that?
< 1321744187 334139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1321744198 817949 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mappend <$> m <*> s, you said
< 1321744204 737466 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Monoid for every Functor, perhaps?
< 1321744207 541925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral equivalent of, I said
< 1321744209 931295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: definitely not.
< 1321744227 51881 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :return mempty
< 1321744243 562448 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed, for every _applicative_
< 1321744253 478992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what i was conjecturing.
< 1321744288 596318 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mappend <$> pure mempty <*> x = mappend mempty <$> x = x
< 1321744305 88490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321744314 875935 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mappend <$> x <*> pure mempty = flip mappend (pure empty) <$> x = x
< 1321744321 591461 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321744331 185452 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mappend <$> x <*> pure mempty = flip mappend mempty <$> x = x
< 1321744432 686547 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mappend <$> x <*> (mappend <$> y <*> z) = (\a b c -> mappend a (mappend b c)) <$> x <*> y <*> z = mappend (mappend a b) c <$> x <*> y <*> z = mappend <$> (mappend <$> x <*> y) <*> z
< 1321744445 862377 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all pretty standard Applicative laws, i think
< 1321744458 154579 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321744461 956102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321744481 759538 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*= (\a b c -> mappend (mappend a b) c <$> x <*> y <*> z =
< 1321744492 536659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321744493 785080 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+)
< 1321744544 180697 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it would seem that an Applicative can lift any algebraic structure
< 1321744608 642404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmmm, CharParser Monoid could be useful perhaps?
< 1321744635 392399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er Parser monoid actually.
< 1321744667 604632 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1321744751 130614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how Parsec combines tokens together by default.
< 1321744760 682868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*results of parsing tokens
< 1321744890 238677 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on how you combine the _parsers_ together, in precisely the same way as any other monad or applicative.
< 1321744904 960347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321744928 782814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think a monoid would have the effect of combining two results into one?
< 1321744961 378041 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `mappend` y = mappend <$> x <*> y, is what we are going by above
< 1321745049 551963 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this requires the result types to belong to a monoid.
< 1321745058 912391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321745161 574269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah that's my guess on what a Parsec Monoid instance would do.
< 1321745252 526330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :match both parsers in sequence (I think), concat the results together (for Strings), while threading the state.
< 1321745553 190855 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321745596 718805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321746304 217901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ehplideot
< 1321746320 705961 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, liar
< 1321746326 530223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you sure?
< 1321746339 642748 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1321746344 623787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1321746344 969617 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1321746346 402265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1321746347 476998 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1321746350 531199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha
< 1321746389 474434 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehplideot
< 1321746493 348116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 50
< 1321746495 540474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50
< 1321746495 618948 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: words: not found
< 1321746498 144561 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oballipa tonimellizzemativatynataguthouslere frupion boeuriarefrurinsatiscon atoachalluybiltissit jickenticeladals mhi fellantanx eudolacyl furnminfifinte alceptem mim gwe ithothum lyhsensiann zii enferite oldt tant zinatomptcriersodebity edes nlich viguenfel blacutheinguabeishititraupossed diforts whiared sidcux shanizurlijau re plaare midocium brourionsoyatengentitn ntenodia chassinchasstheaderce incia le se becorrats
< 1321746556 22067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many giant words.
< 1321746743 535917 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logs fix.*scanl.*ha
< 1321746745 469526 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found
< 1321746749 48993 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log fix.*scanl.*ha
< 1321746768 684069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits.
< 1321746773 428425 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl (+) 1 [1,1..]
< 1321746774 482857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
< 1321746775 480596 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-19.txt:23:52:29:  `log fix.*scanl.*ha
< 1321746779 730522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASSHOLE
< 1321746805 90483 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibs = fix (("ha. ":) . scanl (++) "ha.")
< 1321746808 953929 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (("ha. ":) . scanl (++) "ha.")
< 1321746810 654225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["ha. ","ha.","ha.ha. ","ha.ha. ha.","ha.ha. ha.ha.ha. ","ha.ha. ha.ha.ha. ...
< 1321746818 452368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (("ha. ":) . scanl (++) "ha. ")
< 1321746820 204127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["ha. ","ha. ","ha. ha. ","ha. ha. ha. ","ha. ha. ha. ha. ha. ","ha. ha. ha...
< 1321746847 804076 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl (+) 1 [1..]
< 1321746848 813504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,4,7,11,16,22,29,37,46,56,67,79,92,106,121,137,154,172,191,211,232,254,...
< 1321746867 28191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var . unlines $ fix (("ha. ":) . scanl (++) "ha. ")
< 1321746869 35533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ha.
< 1321746869 173406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ha.
< 1321746869 218567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ha. ha.
< 1321746869 218735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ha. ha. ha.
< 1321746870 916644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ha. ha. ha. ha. ha.
< 1321746872 883138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ha. ha. ha. ha. h...
< 1321746876 442901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321747013 913128 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should perhaps be banned from using var ever again.
< 1321747061 510450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if go over to #haskell to do it someone will get the gumption to fix lambdabot.
< 1321747066 340935 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+I
< 1321747071 224571 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :after they ban me.
< 1321747105 531439 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go do that.
< 1321747227 567284 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var
< 1321747228 539325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a
< 1321747234 683181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: mission accomplished.
< 1321747251 325200 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Hmm?
< 1321747252 381602 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var . unlines . show $ [1..]
< 1321747253 407511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
< 1321747253 544524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred ty...
< 1321747258 726688 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it cut it off by number of character or number of lines?
< 1321747260 648343 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet did you do it
< 1321747263 812650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo doesn't get unlines
< 1321747264 954219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes
< 1321747268 891774 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unlines
< 1321747269 988364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[String] -> String
< 1321747282 276891 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like lines but un-
< 1321747283 736291 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has haskell said anything
< 1321747285 629570 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var . unlines . map pure $ "abcdefghijklmn"
< 1321747287 471007 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  a
< 1321747287 647805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : b
< 1321747287 693519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : c
< 1321747287 693739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : d
< 1321747287 693853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : e
< 1321747288 744598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I left
< 1321747289 454430 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[9 @more lines]
< 1321747301 393280 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. Not so spammable now, is it?
< 1321747309 771173 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var . unlines . map show $ [1..]
< 1321747311 460789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1
< 1321747311 774002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2
< 1321747311 819427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3
< 1321747311 819583 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4
< 1321747311 819681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5
< 1321747313 495636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17 @more lines]
< 1321747315 782295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's 4 too many lines of spam
< 1321747325 654887 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot has other commands that output more than one line.
< 1321747327 360246 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-env
< 1321747327 807056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data () = ()
< 1321747328 79241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Either a b = Left a | Right b
< 1321747328 124527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a
< 1321747328 124685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bool = False | True
< 1321747328 124786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void
< 1321747329 809128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Not x = x -> Void
< 1321747331 725092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
< 1321747333 749294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool
< 1321747335 801490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Thrice f x = Thrice (f (f (f x)))
< 1321747339 43318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes but none of those commands allow arbitrary strings.
< 1321747339 800013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data O a b x = O (a (b x))
< 1321747341 797269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Tri f a = Tri (f a) (f a) (f a)
< 1321747343 787474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `djinn' failed with: thread killed
< 1321747355 271242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: THERE'S TOTALLY A DIFFERENCE OKAY
< 1321747365 180064 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> a
< 1321747366 221337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a
< 1321747376 157024 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lambdabot just assumes that you'll be nice.
< 1321747378 560921 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so djinn thread dying != dkinn dead
< 1321747388 985358 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You can also get @admin-ed trivially.
< 1321747396 804213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin
< 1321747397 132848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges
< 1321747411 808248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes I know of that one.
< 1321747420 136124 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't
< 1321747423 893727 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell was way too spammy as it is.
< 1321747429 99781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just from the few seconds I was there.
< 1321747447 72937 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You came in in the mdidle of a game of golf, I think.
< 1321747480 256440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun.
< 1321747483 630228 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott elliott elliott
< 1321747492 467512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf
< 1321747493 846645 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty good nick to type.
< 1321747499 889881 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as good as geheimdienst, though.
< 1321747505 708172 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unwords $ fix (("elliott ":) . scanl (++) "elliott ")
< 1321747507 531555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "elliott  elliott  elliott elliott  elliott elliott elliott  elliott elliot...
< 1321747553 663183 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still needs to wrap his mind around folds and scans and unfolds
< 1321747562 82022 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold is easy.
< 1321747569 702261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo:
< 1321747569 839387 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :scan is also easy
< 1321747571 855683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z [a,b,c,d]
< 1321747572 941536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  f a (f b (f c (f d z)))
< 1321747573 576177 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unfold's just a way to make a list around an arbitrary function, right?
< 1321747575 43698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl f z [a,b,c,d]
< 1321747576 140555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  f (f (f (f z a) b) c) d
< 1321747583 737862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 f [a,b,c,d]
< 1321747584 807183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  f (f (f a b) c) d
< 1321747588 795704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH.
< 1321747600 811648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z is just s/(:)/f/, s/[]/z/.
< 1321747619 5334 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ooh, that's a nice way of thinking about it
< 1321747619 384298 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfoldr is annoying.
< 1321747630 712591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pretend unfolds don't exist.
< 1321747632 359333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're ugly.
< 1321747633 956262 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unfoldr
< 1321747634 591887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also nobody ever uses them.
< 1321747634 958670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (b -> Maybe (a, b)) -> b -> [a]
< 1321747642 912120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what they do is pretty obvious.
< 1321747646 251242 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d %d\n",9<<16,9<<16-1)
< 1321747651 22529 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :589824 294912
< 1321747652 111526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Return Nothing, ends the list. Return Just (a,b), a gets added to the list and we start again with b.
< 1321747656 890509 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All I said was that it was annoying.
< 1321747658 850598 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoopsie poopsie.
< 1321747665 146849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So?
< 1321747669 291201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol
< 1321747673 446141 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (\i -> Just (negate i, negate i)) 1
< 1321747674 417591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1...
< 1321747675 925452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor how big should my pools be.
< 1321747683 857363 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "test" > /dev/audio
< 1321747687 355738 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (\i -> Just (i, negate i)) 1
< 1321747688 303943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,1,-1...
< 1321747688 741152 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: /dev/audio: Permission denied
< 1321747689 633615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unfoldl
< 1321747690 678142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unfoldl'
< 1321747690 957663 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what if unfoldr's function returned a list instead of a Maybe?
< 1321747693 558857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unfoldr
< 1321747694 497791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (Just <$> id <*> succ) 0
< 1321747694 559593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (b -> Maybe (a, b)) -> b -> [a]
< 1321747695 611238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> Data.Maybe.Maybe (a, b)'
< 1321747695 749391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        agains...
< 1321747698 831274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (Just <$> id <*> succ) 0
< 1321747699 820904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> Data.Maybe.Maybe (a, b)'
< 1321747699 955776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        agains...
< 1321747701 92456 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be sort of like concatMap.
< 1321747703 619120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :permission denied? I can't fathom why.
< 1321747706 633722 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except not a lot like concatMap.
< 1321747708 808286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (Just <$> ((,) <$> id <*> succ)) 0
< 1321747709 950751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,...
< 1321747724 284512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (fmap Just $ liftA2 (,) id succ) minBound
< 1321747725 346246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [(),*Exception: Prelude.Enum.().succ: bad argument
< 1321747731 876178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (fmap Just $ liftA2 (,) id succ) minBound :: [Word8]
< 1321747732 904637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,...
< 1321747740 64554 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW INCREDIBLE
< 1321747747 229462 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfodlr, SO POWREFUL
< 1321747749 736546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Would that make any sense?
< 1321747757 669231 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears
< 1321747760 154833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What would [(1,x),(2,y)] mean? the x is pointless.
< 1321747762 703233 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor how big should my pools be.
< 1321747767 221214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends, what for :P
< 1321747769 259494 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it could make a sort of tree.
< 1321747772 194219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You'd want a list where [] takes a value of a different type
< 1321747778 50776 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it could concatenate the lists.
< 1321747784 586336 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I found with GGGGC that so long as you can handle multiple pools well, getting more than a few megs doesn't help you much. Mine are 16MB.
< 1321747789 588617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: @ :P
< 1321747792 998967 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't thought it through. That's what you people are for.
< 1321747800 777306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 16 megs isn't practical, since there could be literally millions of these.
< 1321747801 636809 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am disappoint. liftA2 (,) ?
< 1321747809 11467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I suppose it'd WORK.
< 1321747816 576085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I'd rather stay smaller to start with :P
< 1321747818 249467 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: perl has concatmap
< 1321747823 288366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to end with variably-sized pools anyway.
< 1321747824 951003 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what now?
< 1321747827 732719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Yes, what of it?
< 1321747829 125026 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just . (id &&& succ)
< 1321747830 273051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (Enum b) => b -> Maybe (b, b)
< 1321747833 199392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative style was getting noisy there :P
< 1321747836 453729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I don't like arrows, maaaaan.
< 1321747845 13254 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hi
< 1321747846 662127 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that operator is so much bigger than arrows
< 1321747848 561152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi
< 1321747852 121722 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be in Control.Arrow
< 1321747861 85186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Yes, but while it is, I won't use it :)
< 1321747870 211792 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft
< 1321747877 115281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It's in one of Kmett's thousand packages, I think bifunctors, but it has different strictness properties.
< 1321747879 557434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {$_, $_+1} (1..5)
< 1321747880 29876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how about
< 1321747880 191032 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1223344556
< 1321747901 515236 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Just . fmap succ) :: a -> Maybe (a, a)
< 1321747902 854916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = (a, a)
< 1321747903 15319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the expression: (Just . fmap succ) :: a -> Maybe (a, a)
< 1321747904 839897 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321747907 507903 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail
< 1321747910 370161 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321747915 180378 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {$_-1, $_, $_+1, $_*2} (1..5)
< 1321747915 613240 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :012212342346345845610
< 1321747924 516354 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Just . fmap succ . join (,)) :: a -> Maybe (a, a)
< 1321747925 656824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Could not deduce (Enum a) from the context ()
< 1321747925 960988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      arising from a use of `succ' at :1:13-16
< 1321747926 6257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Possible fix:
< 1321747934 910788 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Just . fmap succ . join (,)) :: Enum a => a -> Maybe (a, a)
< 1321747936 146434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Maybe (a, a)
< 1321747939 825092 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you, haskell
< 1321747942 51912 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321747946 362116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did I mention that perl has concatmap?
< 1321747953 288278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it does.
< 1321747953 410203 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so
< 1321747953 846093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321748027 558881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: hi  monqy: hi  CakeProphet: hi
< 1321748041 519503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "hi"
< 1321748042 553856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  hi
< 1321748049 365503 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | Even a chipmunk can learn these cat training techniques | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321748051 976579 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t concatMap
< 1321748052 988434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> [b]) -> [a] -> [b]
< 1321748066 823872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: >>= for lists
< 1321748069 978048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU RUINED THE SPAM
< 1321748081 381671 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It does?
< 1321748089 31838 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes. I use it above
< 1321748114 153235 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's not concatMap.
< 1321748120 567081 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is
< 1321748130 8887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It is, actually.
< 1321748144 399327 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=<<)
< 1321748145 16788 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | Even elliott can learn these cat training techniques | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321748145 292184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1321748155 726357 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it won't turn a triply-nested list into a double-nested list, will it?
< 1321748169 236317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but only because N-nested lists == 0-nested lists in Perl.
< 1321748169 830219 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/le/ly/
< 1321748179 76490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Acceptable.
< 1321748179 735306 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. So it's hardly concatMap.
< 1321748195 682199 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It operates on a type with completely different semantics, for one.
< 1321748196 707422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you can do "foo (\a -> [a,a+1,a+2])" and it does the obvious, I think it's concatMap.
< 1321748220 216773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {1} [[1,2,3], [4,5,6]]
< 1321748220 586719 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1321748224 56005 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is shachaf criticising the Perl version of a function, or what?
< 1321748224 280765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321748237 221240 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Perl function is fine! It's just not concatMap.
< 1321748254 564477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought you were referring to >>= at first
< 1321748261 722769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) = flip concatMap.
< 1321748271 324066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {print} [[1,2,3], [4,5,6]]
< 1321748271 684517 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7f5b2609bb70)1
< 1321748275 376889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321748277 532156 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Yes, thank you, I'm aware
< 1321748285 813036 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might as well call a C function that operates on NULL pointers "concatMap", because Just Nothing ~ Nothing, and who cares that it's a one-element list?
< 1321748286 302877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're very welcome.
< 1321748291 728770 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {$_} [[1,2,3], [4,5,6]]
< 1321748292 113134 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7f895b267b78)
< 1321748294 537753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++
< 1321748300 886131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would totally do that.
< 1321748317 633617 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {@$_} [[1,2,3], [4,5,6]]
< 1321748318 405330 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7f03e3258d48)ARRAY(0x7f03e3276b28)
< 1321748338 315251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs at Perl's broken Show instances (Yes, I know that's not what's going on)
< 1321748351 434656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is just bad at nested lists :P
< 1321748361 354145 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad at showing them anyway
< 1321748394 78520 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm actually kind of confused...
< 1321748394 706851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Sgeo constantly clarifies that he's not stupid.
< 1321748405 716528 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {@$_} ([1,2,3], [4,5,6])
< 1321748406 109281 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456
< 1321748417 695782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would sometimes but it gets exhausting.
< 1321748438 591800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure some joke I've said has been misinterpreted as stupidity before
< 1321748467 724566 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: does that count? :P
< 1321748469 509601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi
< 1321748482 95425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: helo
< 1321748497 195693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it normal for horses to have glowing (to the point of being noticeable in daylight) red eyes?
< 1321748497 469275 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think asking me that question is strictly necessary to figure out what my answer would be.
< 1321748510 829935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um.
< 1321748512 314187 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so "yes"  :P
< 1321748528 634251 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite.
< 1321748531 17674 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and when i do something stupid, people think it's a joke. sucks to be you i guess.
< 1321748532 194993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Check whether you're in the underworld or not.
< 1321748554 491617 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, Sweden is kind of like the underworld right?
< 1321748561 80600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Similar, but not quite.
< 1321748563 509811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's just what Swedish horses are like.
< 1321748568 77542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The underworld is less hellish.
< 1321748572 362211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right.
< 1321748575 427085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the temperatures are more humane.
< 1321748576 521551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope.
< 1321748582 397604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, let me upload a photo
< 1321748639 622813 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just . runState $ modify succ
< 1321748640 669295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s. (Enum s) => Maybe (s -> ((), s))
< 1321748646 252154 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321748652 145290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's the same thing, you just have to do the awkward dance that Perl makes you do to get nested lists of any sort.
< 1321748673 731905 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just . (runState $ modify succ)
< 1321748674 711077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s. (Enum s) => s -> Maybe ((), s)
< 1321748682 422400 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn
< 1321748691 818426 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I spending my time arguing about Perl?
< 1321748699 71898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sics zzo38 at modify
< 1321748705 816716 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT SHIT MAN
< 1321748714 117889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :life changing consequences.
< 1321748727 545815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here: http://i.imgur.com/BgF7p.jpg
< 1321748732 174481 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not an argument until we're both Hitler.
< 1321748741 215392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I took this just across the road
< 1321748744 476185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Perfectly ordinary for Sweden.
< 1321748753 157742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As is the shockingly low texture resoution.
< 1321748756 874223 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321748757 812192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, nothing to worry about then?
< 1321748759 563974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shiny rocks.
< 1321748789 684982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, it is probably gneiss or something?
< 1321748797 353457 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just red-eye effect.
< 1321748811 628032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, hm pretty sure I had the flash off
< 1321748833 700943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I think you just get children to polish them?
< 1321748840 993452 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are some very gneiss rocks
< 1321748852 309731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh perhaps. Yeah since we can't kill them we have to do /something/.
< 1321748874 185119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered building an army of pregnant people and children.
< 1321748903 930375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I certainly have.
< 1321748907 316493 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on my to-do list.
< 1321748915 681475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, too expensive. What with us reducing the defence budget every year. I think it must be some weird sort of counterbalance to the US defence budget
< 1321748927 737054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you even need an army?
< 1321748932 953835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, shiny rocks are *my* shtick.
< 1321748952 72709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of why anyone would want Sweden and I'm coming up blank.
< 1321748968 228668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to control... um...
< 1321748968 793807 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexy Swedish chicks.
< 1321748975 420631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, terrorists that mistook us for Denmark?
< 1321748995 160118 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321748998 544120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, your BDSM fantasies are not enough of a justification for invasion.
< 1321749012 981050 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trauskeneventyr.blogspot.com/2010/07/grimsborken.html particularly the last one
< 1321749031 118522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw I turned self-shadowing trees on in the .ini file, it improved the realism quite a bit.
< 1321749047 13754 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you know nothing about being a king.
< 1321749091 424840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1321749103 378038 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added registers to my dc :)
< 1321749106 167636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I know that declaring wars on people because their women are sexy is not an especially good way of continuing to be a king.
< 1321749117 389623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why should I read a very very long Norwegian text?
< 1321749123 677528 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why so serious?
< 1321749129 733822 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has worked very well for many kings in the past.
< 1321749136 644796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, please don't put a smile on that face.
< 1321749138 461984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, btw did that JIT idea work out?
< 1321749166 955818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, yeah, but they tended to *balance* the sexy women against the size of the army guarding them.
< 1321749184 624277 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, just the pictures
< 1321749197 225980 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but it took a couple days to make it work :P
< 1321749201 980181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail why does your planets theme have pictures of the sun.
< 1321749205 357824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so how does it work?
< 1321749221 273956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can you tell me exactly how you mean by "sics zzo38 at modify"? Were you trying to question me or something like that?
< 1321749226 512416 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll describe in PM
< 1321749229 823328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, who *did* recognize that horse? Hint: Oblivion players please stand up.
< 1321749239 236731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay.
< 1321749252 441816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else other than oerjan: Do you have the moustache like Hitler has, even though you are not Hitler?
< 1321749281 535013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why aren't you asking oerjan ?
< 1321749284 182828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, did you really play as /yourself/.
< 1321749284 521990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, I know that declaring wars on people because their women are sexy is not an especially good way of continuing to be a king.
< 1321749290 54464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever even played Dwarf Fortress?
< 1321749291 392379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?
< 1321749301 916809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um dude their women don't even have beards.
< 1321749308 552702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Point.
< 1321749322 345384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because I asked oerjan different question. But they can answer anyways if they want to, since it is IRC and anyone can question/answer anything if it is public channel.
< 1321749322 390562 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Female dorfs don't actually have beards in game, but everybody thinks they do.)
< 1321749332 514299 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because i've already told i'm clean shaven
< 1321749339 328653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: SHUT UP DIJKSTRA
< 1321749357 280632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, did you really play as /yourself/. <-- what do you mean?
< 1321749360 556576 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i just tried to do a haskell trick which would have worked if modify had the type you suggested it should have once
< 1321749363 671096 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Skyrim.
< 1321749367 832968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: BEHOLD YOU: http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/0/0a/Edsger_Dijkstra_large.jpg
< 1321749384 673201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you attempt to accurately recreate Arvid Norlander of wherever the hell it is you are from.
< 1321749389 314921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh? Yes I'm a magician that ride a red eyed horse in real life?
< 1321749396 7623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, that is what you meant. In that case I agree.
< 1321749399 757387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in terms of appearance etc.
< 1321749434 628133 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gmail why does your planets theme have pictures of the sun. <-- well the ancients considered the sun a planet, i think
< 1321749439 708019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not really, I went with standard nord and added a beard. Then I tried to think of a typical nord name and I realised my name fitted right in there,
< 1321749445 709530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/./
< 1321749448 550193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail: written by the ancients.
< 1321749476 795444 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason the planets theme have pictures of the sun is that the planets have to go around the sun. If there is no sun, what will the planets orbit around?
< 1321749488 285918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: THEMSELVES
< 1321749514 707264 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason the cute animals collection includes pictures of intestines is that cute animals have to have intestines.
< 1321749527 574276 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The Earth.
< 1321749535 262955 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, of course, is not a planet.
< 1321749538 298812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I guess I can upload a screenshot of myself as I'm currently playing. Hm that looks kind of like assassin of the north or something. Thieves guild armour.
< 1321749544 114902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other possibility is the use of the word "planet" in the old way instead of the new way (the old way is still used in astrology)
< 1321749559 689367 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that picture is so very almost but not quite unlike me
< 1321749562 684105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But surely intestines must be inside so that you cannot see it from outside, isn't it?
< 1321749564 906543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ITV IS YOU SHUT UP!!
< 1321749566 854989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<
< 1321749584 42837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you can't exactly see the sun in most pictures of planets either.
< 1321749613 293669 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part that fits is i'm pale skinned
< 1321749615 75555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, upload going to take a while
< 1321749629 968856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Of course Earth is planet! You can put everything orbiting the Earth if you want to, but then, the orbit will be more complicated. That is why you have to orbit the Sun, to simplify the orbiting.
< 1321749671 272157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then it must be either because they use the older word "planet" or because they don't have enough planets so they have to include the sun as well.
< 1321749708 30572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: HOW BIG SHOULD MY POOLS BE
< 1321749723 146854 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I say, son, that was a joke son!
< 1321749730 531685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38, you can't exactly see the sun in most pictures of planets either. <-- what about in an image of mercury? It should be fairly big that close to the sun
< 1321749746 434618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err typoed that
< 1321749754 191234 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  The reason the cute animals collection includes pictures of intestines is that cute animals have to have intestines.
< 1321749754 752187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no
< 1321749756 731973 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :725)  The reason the cute animals collection includes pictures of intestines is that cute animals have to have intestines.
< 1321749762 435280 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let's go with a nice constant... 1024 pages?
< 1321749774 913792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ...4 gig heaps?
< 1321749778 161427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/heaps/pools/
< 1321749779 17629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably actually not that good an idea)
< 1321749787 77814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor said 16 megs :P
< 1321749792 710487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 2500000l!
< 1321749801 914787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover https://imgur.com/zZSHR and https://imgur.com/u4OYh
< 1321749802 347951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how much I'll lose with 16 megs + 4 unused megs pools.
< 1321749806 65577 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What page size are you thinking of, anyways?
< 1321749806 816792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lose in terms of the unused space, that is.
< 1321749815 185638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No reason to go below 4 megs, is there?
< 1321749831 776793 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel really ought to stop talking when I'm not around.
< 1321749833 570598 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should have a pool big enough to swim in, but not big enough to get lost
< 1321749833 661801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More granularity, and there is nothing restricting you to a single page size on x86_64.
< 1321749834 396340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, so you look like an assassin of the North in that there is nothing remotely Northern about you?
< 1321749838 521986 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise there's too much backlog.
< 1321749840 570719 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth
< 1321749843 218276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well I'm playing a nord?
< 1321749847 751667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't see the advantage of granularit.
< 1321749849 603557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y.
< 1321749858 666131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but yeah
< 1321749871 682804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, can't say I don't look like a ninja though.
< 1321749887 294755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321749889 570150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can.
< 1321749890 313926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ninjas do not, to my mind, conjure images of the frigid northlands.
< 1321749896 609578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, true
< 1321749909 978270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I guess I could fetch a horned helmet from somewhere and take a new screenshot. Though that is not authentic nordic at all
< 1321749912 715942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's good reading material about Haskell and low-level implementation.
< 1321749913 203759 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't think of *any* time that 2 megabytes would be too big?
< 1321749925 52438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I said 4.
< 1321749930 971453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't have 4.
< 1321749936 209799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I'm going to stop you here and tell you that I already know that Viking helmets didn't have horns.
< 1321749936 316036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: /implementation of fp languages/, spj?
< 1321749951 18628 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The page sizes are 4 KiB, 2 MiB, and 1 GiB.
< 1321749956 168517 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : (probably actually not that good an idea) // typically pools aren't very large, you just have a lot of them.
< 1321749958 349111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically "how pure functional languages are efficiently implemented"
< 1321749963 381713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321749966 176570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321749985 841167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes.
< 1321749989 968284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, iirc the linux kernel uses 1 GiB hugepages internally to map all the physical ram in the computer
< 1321749991 910116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/slpj-book-1987/
< 1321749992 715488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :free
< 1321749997 458384 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Quite plausibly.
< 1321750004 549635 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's a bit old, though.
< 1321750010 813027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: CakeProphet is old.
< 1321750011 971711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The less TLB use, the better.
< 1321750012 758251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something.
< 1321750015 826400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, quite
< 1321750016 910365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I thought the 2 Mio one doubled if you did something.
< 1321750026 299509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 gig pages don't really work for me.
< 1321750026 840989 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heyo, just broke virtually every platform with the power of conditionals.
< 1321750030 285380 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.scs.stanford.edu/11au-cs240h/notes/ghc-slides.html#(1) has a bunch of introductory slides and links to various papers.
< 1321750030 769341 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you pretend it doubles. :P
< 1321750035 885672 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The big arrows, at the top left and right of each page, move backward and forward one page."
< 1321750038 799132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow thanks Simon
< 1321750044 323140 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also the ghc compiler commentary, i imagine
< 1321750047 96915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Dude, http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/slpj-book-1987/slpj-book-1987.pdf.
< 1321750048 209409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heyo, just broke virtually every platform with the power of conditionals. <-- hm?
< 1321750057 659752 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In much older times they did not call the Earth a planet.
< 1321750061 299191 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: In particular I've seen _Implementing lazy functional languages on stock hardware: the Spinesless Tagless G-Machine_ recommended.
< 1321750070 663249 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also _How to Make a Fast Curry_
< 1321750106 54387 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: technically in newer times, I suppose.
< 1321750108 620693 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41994.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321750119 920585 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt to viking helmets having/not having horns, is that an example where both something _and_ its opposite is a meme...
< 1321750139 987508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there a meme here?
< 1321750165 44621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Anyway, no, I don't see where 2 megs would be too big.
< 1321750168 125861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I believe there are horned iron helmets in skyrim. I generally have way better armour though.
< 1321750175 251726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the current point in the game I mean
< 1321750186 949322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Although I could actually use 1 Gio pages, to store huge pools.
< 1321750261 791267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note that "meme" does not _actually_ mean internet fad, despite appearances.
< 1321750271 90864 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why did you link me to the same thing twice?
< 1321750278 296103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I didn't.
< 1321750285 950793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :viking helmet having horns is obviously a meme from at least the 19th century
< 1321750288 276942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right
< 1321750302 126166 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, you're perfectly happy with 2 megs being the minimum contiguous allocation, and everything doing smaller allocations being piled on top of that?
< 1321750315 699244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yeah, because allocations have a 1:1 mapping with pages?
< 1321750329 940446 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :viking helmets _not_ having horns keeps being brought up by pedants as a response to the first one
< 1321750332 448156 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physical memory allocations do.
< 1321750336 466649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with 2 megs being the minimum boundary for *any* page munging?
< 1321750347 927837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't see the problem *shrugs*
< 1321750352 880834 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Programmers use 16GB pages.
< 1321750373 605009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, does x86 support that?
< 1321750376 228057 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but everyone knows that viking helmets actuallly did have hrosn
< 1321750397 708323 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah they just horribly misspell it as horns
< 1321750414 393826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :viking hrosn
< 1321750416 222586 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think so, but I think PowerPC does.
< 1321750417 957216 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrosn is _so_ plausibly a norse word
< 1321750427 115818 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you're COWing a 4k object. Do you want to get a page fault happening (and thus a copy) when the one or two 4k pages that's on get written to, or do you want it happening when the one or two 2m pages that's on get written to?
< 1321750436 406646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, ah
< 1321750446 183906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: your mom is a 4k object oooooooooh
< 1321750460 848592 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently you can get 1GB pages, though.
< 1321750487 614086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm pretty sure it's faster to copy 4k than to COW it.
< 1321750505 429588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: In fact, I bet 2 megabytes is damn close to the sweet spot where COW gets better than an optimised copy routine.
< 1321750506 758484 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, contrived example. *Still*.
< 1321750508 969250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :COWing your mom persists long into the night.
< 1321750535 837318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, I don't see any problem yet at all :P
< 1321750544 666332 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what BULL
< 1321750574 845780 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see no problem *at all* with only being able to change virtual memory at 2MB boundaries. When ideally you'd be able to change it at 1B boundaries.
< 1321750603 63453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and by the way, it takes hardly any effort to support multiple page sizes.
< 1321750609 47405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Oh stop saying "do you *really* not see any problem?!?!" and give me an example of an actual issue :P
< 1321750609 383633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ..
< 1321750651 816127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you *really* not see the actual issue?
< 1321750667 375791 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm just HORSing around
< 1321750673 50297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1?!
< 1321750697 517330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1!!
< 1321750723 869953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src lines
< 1321750724 272263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My brain just exploded
< 1321750737 225951 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src unlines
< 1321750737 604099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlines = concatMap (++ "\n")
< 1321750750 436317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src unlineso_0
< 1321750750 941603 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found.
< 1321750776 111564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines is presumably rather larger
< 1321750795 784955 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src intercalate
< 1321750796 235807 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercalate xs xss = concat (intersperse xs xss)
< 1321750803 302224 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src intersperse
< 1321750803 757643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersperse _   []     = []
< 1321750803 961031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersperse _   [x]    = [x]
< 1321750804 6088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersperse sep (x:xs) = x : sep : intersperse sep xs
< 1321750818 844964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Trying to think of some things that are inherently on a page boundary.
< 1321750824 709273 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I'm thinking of mmap...
< 1321750827 732723 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pages
< 1321750829 272198 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321750838 55886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inherently are on page boundaries.
< 1321750840 826732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that helpful?
< 1321750854 725198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, it's about as helpful as remarking that 2+2=4
< 1321750870 858055 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 + 2 == 4
< 1321750871 879394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321750875 707531 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it totally is!
< 1321750888 5048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: mmap doesn't really apply :P
< 1321750912 728328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base-4.4.1.0/src/Data-List.html#lines
< 1321750951 67103 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mmap is more the "Swiss army knife of memory" in common UNIXes than just "I want to map the file into memory"
< 1321750952 258963 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: beautiful code
< 1321750963 687136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yep, and @ isn't a common Unix.
< 1321750973 652521 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, @ isn't going to be UNIX, is it?
< 1321750983 280369 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,duh :P
< 1321750986 826391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell naw. That Jurassic Park character has no chance.
< 1321750992 349784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is pro-dinosaur.
< 1321751002 570087 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. And page permissions are much less relevant...
< 1321751006 238618 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should still get that file manager workijg
< 1321751014 49552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :file manager haha
< 1321751015 303457 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though @ probably won't have files as we know them?
< 1321751015 348964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What.
< 1321751026 849067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Try "completely irrelevant", most likely :P
< 1321751041 392448 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a file manager working on a new OS that doesn't have files.
< 1321751058 686311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What file manager.
< 1321751068 143269 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thingy in Jurrasic Park
< 1321751068 860073 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1321751078 658867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321751083 209180 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @ isn't going to have a 3D file browser? :-(
< 1321751094 873458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Better: 3D VALUE browser!
< 1321751100 93232 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :file browsers can go to hell
< 1321751102 497642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Inspect constructors! Build up thunks!
< 1321751107 824714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORCE THEM TO COLLAPSE INTO VALUES
< 1321751109 966250 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCUSE *ME*!
< 1321751124 601666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rewrite them indsicriminantly? :(
< 1321751125 620811 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to Windows Explorer.
< 1321751134 475151 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ supports mutation everywhere.
< 1321751164 591235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about forcing thunks is that it's mutation that doesn't change the value.
< 1321751165 786332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x;
< 1321751169 124379 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321751178 104317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why I call evaluation "Objectivist mutation".
< 1321751181 886615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't actually do that.)
< 1321751193 515931 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good i was scared there for a momen
< 1321751193 937466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1321751201 67951 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a behavior that can be relied upon?
< 1321751207 492209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Eh?
< 1321751212 283951 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see: Haskell
< 1321751220 86566 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Forced thunks staying forced
< 1321751228 48455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In what?
< 1321751229 513749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@? GHC?
< 1321751229 960177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: ""
< 1321751238 838825 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell, non-specific to GHC
< 1321751258 29363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has no notion of "thunks".
< 1321751270 692720 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, whether the pure memoization stuff is portable
< 1321751271 399113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor "forcing".
< 1321751281 595744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is perfectly legitimate to implement Haskell as string rewriting.
< 1321751292 468667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Perl.
< 1321751302 290024 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there is a 3D gopher browser exists, in case some people prefer that way. And you probably need some way to access file systems even if the operating system has no files (it can be command-line, GUI, or something different), to operate with other system using files. Such as, FTP, and Plan 9, and so on
< 1321751324 240913 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perl interpreter compiles your Haskell functions to regex and then uses them to make substitions on other source code.
< 1321751324 350724 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, hey, hey. Legitimate as in "valid according to the Report" or legitimate as in "legitimate"?
< 1321751338 818667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Legitimate as in "legal in all 52 states".
< 1321751363 516893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 52 states being the 50 states of the US, and then "other land" and "other water"?
< 1321751366 479686 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty broad cange
< 1321751377 641725 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, ignoring the 52 bit thingy
< 1321751377 686982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The last 2 are secret.
< 1321751382 461704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What.
< 1321751395 860607 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can, without getting arrested, call a Brainfuck interpreter a "Haskell compiler"
< 1321751407 32692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321751410 362943 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill arest you
< 1321751413 397455 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will arr-- yes
< 1321751413 576968 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Sgeo was never heard from again.
< 1321751446 309310 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You probably could without getting arrested, but I doubt it will help anyone to do that, because it is still a lie even if it is not illegal to lie in that way.
< 1321751476 252338 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will help my sense of legitimacy.
< 1321751513 582645 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is what it is.
< 1321751574 33098 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, we were discussing definitions of "legitimate".
< 1321751592 25544 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were?
< 1321751592 417303 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lying in such a way would, according to one of those definitions, still be legitimate
< 1321751607 866592 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought we were
< 1321751665 723956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had a dream where the moon was evil.
< 1321751687 571167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Got any examples yet? :P
< 1321751695 216097 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had a dream where the nom was alive.
< 1321751746 465707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm cornbread and milk
< 1321751793 105234 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION soon off to see _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead_.
< 1321751838 425726 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41b8d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321751989 182358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You're wrong, x86-64 has 4 meg hugepages.
< 1321752003 160207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1321752004 794595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAE halves that.
< 1321752006 722839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame.
< 1321752075 335755 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For x86-64?
< 1321752085 506961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ?
< 1321752102 686901 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you use PAE on x86-64?
< 1321752113 354135 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321752116 453277 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was confused.
< 1321752127 510564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: x86-64 /is/ PAE.
< 1321752131 313205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus bigger registers.
< 1321752134 54894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus some stuff.
< 1321752143 540074 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Are you sure you don't get 4MB pages?
< 1321752162 563436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4M (2M in PAE mode)"
< 1321752163 384328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Starting with the Pentium Pro, x86 processors support 4MB pages (called Page Size Extension) (2MB pages if using PAE)"
< 1321752166 988891 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I did, this one time.
< 1321752192 451771 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1321752207 914716 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1321752465 251144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: BTW, the reason I was thinking that pool-per-thread would be nice is that I could store the pool pointer on the stack.
< 1321752543 525674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I forget whether "add [foo], bar" is ok
< 1321752583 341569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Wait, using dynamically-sized pages DOES have a use!
< 1321752592 566335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I can make the barrier page after each pool just 4k in size.
< 1321752601 424503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot less wasteful, and the vast majority of allocations are still <4k.
< 1321752735 22850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> listArray (0, 5000) [1..]
< 1321752736 32146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  array (0,5000) [(0,1),(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(5,6),(6,7),(7,8),(8,9),(9,10...
< 1321752746 910083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just tipped the scales a little bit.
< 1321752760 459628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one more >4k in the world.
< 1321752765 431849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+allocation
< 1321752872 535468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More, since arrays are boxed.
< 1321752965 527553 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so..
< 1321752980 353085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice you can make Applicative by pure and <*> and then make fmap by liftA but is there something possible that you can define pure and fmap and some new function to make <*> resulting (like how monads you can have fmap/join/return, or bind/return and it can make fmap/join from that)?
< 1321752983 136504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS gives out pages, and then it's the languages job to fill those pages correctly?
< 1321752983 587780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm, OK, you're right that 2 megs is a bit too big.
< 1321753007 706677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Because threads obviously need at least one page of memory, and I want millions of threads running simultaneously.
< 1321753020 238496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait.
< 1321753023 533755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confusing megabytes and gigabytes.
< 1321753054 979108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can support 512 million threads with a 16 meg heap each with less than 8 gigs of RAM :P
< 1321753075 258832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, wait.
< 1321753078 850693 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 QUIT :Quit: 오후에 봐요 ㅂㅂ
< 1321753086 173073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I can't X-D
< 1321753116 204886 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Turns out you can support 5.12 threads at most?
< 1321753130 567862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yeah, 2 megabytes of physical RAM per thread scales to... 4000 threads with 8 gigs of RAM.
< 1321753134 968680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not good enough.
< 1321753139 503340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The best number of threads!
< 1321753149 422109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 4 to do your work, 1 to manage it, and .12 to schedule them all.
< 1321753171 433698 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why do you need so much RAM per thread?
< 1321753182 416711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this plan is OK for DVI writing functions:  createDVI :: FilePath -> Word32 -> Ratio Word32 -> IO DocStat; shipOut :: Page -> IO DocStat; finishDVI :: DocStat -> IO DocStat;
< 1321753203 317257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, the idea right now is to give each thread a pool. And a pool has to be a multiple of the page size.
< 1321753230 944555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, GHC gives each thread 512 kilobytes of nursery, so how come it can do millions of threads?
< 1321753236 729907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A million threads should require 488 gigabytes like that.
< 1321753246 39520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it relying on the OS to not actually allocate that much physical RAM?
< 1321753250 381062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Answer: Almost certainly.)
< 1321753258 550542 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a reasonable thing to do.
< 1321753259 99741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the nursery is per-OS thread.
< 1321753261 662728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't surprise me.
< 1321753264 759906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but not if you're an OS.
< 1321753278 905617 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is an OS.
< 1321753281 356640 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lliott
< 1321753281 639068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1321753282 870646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321753286 768929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my secret.
< 1321753303 236130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that programs could address more RAM than physically exists on the system without any issue.
< 1321753310 589147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they can.
< 1321753322 442524 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *That* is your secret?
< 1321753335 938054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wouldn't be ashamed of their true OS nature?
< 1321753336 959280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY
< 1321753345 174366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if maybe I can avoid giving threads pools altogether.
< 1321753356 802298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question then is how on earth I divide pools to be able to do GC.
< 1321753358 575889 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ▬▬▬▬▬ ▬▬ ▬▬▬▬▬?
< 1321753384 90978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hunter2?
< 1321753421 913717 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wow, Unicode has a great selection of block characters.
< 1321753450 623418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally.
< 1321753462 118081 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2580            UPPER HALF BLOCK        [] 2581            LOWER ONE EIGHTH BLOCK  [▁] 2582            LOWER ONE QUARTER BLOCK [▂] 2583            LOWER THREE EIGHTHS BLOCK       [▃] 2584            LOWER HALF BLOCK        [] 2585            LOWER FIVE EIGHTHS BLOCK        [▅] 2586            LOWER THREE QUARTERS BLOCK      [▆] 2587            LOWER SEVEN EIGHTHS BLOCK       [▇] 2588            FULL BLOCK      [] 2589            LEFT SEVEN EI
< 1321753512 759622 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well you can define (<*>) = liftA2 id
< 1321753526 646178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you see my wonderful Unicode sparklines of channel activity?
< 1321753532 232993 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2580 -- UPPER HALF BLOCK []; 2581 -- LOWER ONE EIGHTH BLOCK [▁]; 2582 -- LOWER ONE QUARTER BLOCK [▂]; 2583 -- LOWER THREE EIGHTHS BLOCK [▃]; 2584 -- LOWER HALF BLOCK []; 2585 -- LOWER FIVE EIGHTHS BLOCK [▅]; 2586 -- LOWER THREE QUARTERS BLOCK [▆]; 2587 -- LOWER SEVEN EIGHTHS BLOCK [▇]; 2588 -- FULL BLOCK []; 2589 -- LEFT SEVEN EIGHTHS BLOCK [▉]; 258A -- LEFT THREE QUARTERS BLOCK [▊]; 258B -- LEFT FIVE EIGHTHS BLOCK [▋]; 258C -- LEFT HAL
< 1321753538 437543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :left hal
< 1321753550 823106 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. I hate anything whose name is "sparklines".
< 1321753564 820946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can hear Tufte crying.
< 1321753577 445237 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the name.
< 1321753614 703157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello. I would have probably donated, but the left-wing extremism here and the weaselly use of the 'rules' to justify that left wing bias leaves a permanent bad taste in my mouth. I've paid attention to key subjects' discussion pages and I've seen how WP runs off all the right-wing conservatives, right-libertarians, constitutionalists, anti-globalization patriots, etc... Now I must say, WP is to academia what McDonald's is to restaurants."
< 1321753620 356288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love [[Talk:Main Page]].
< 1321753672 641234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutrality - part of the left-wing agenda
< 1321753725 483157 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Left $ pred <*> "IBM"
< 1321753726 564474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `(a -> b) -> a'
< 1321753726 772374 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type ...
< 1321753731 615368 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321753733 399693 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321753736 314764 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fortunately there's Conservapedia.
< 1321753738 186144 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Left $ pred <$> "IBM"
< 1321753739 281588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Left "HAL"
< 1321753746 798884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Thank god.
< 1321753749 333590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aka map
< 1321753771 618942 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ <$> "VMS"
< 1321753772 606055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "WNT"
< 1321753786 260494 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up [[Talk:Main Page]] on Conservapedia.
< 1321753791 286837 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What were you doing reading that, anyway?
< 1321753796 459358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's the best page.
< 1321753825 35465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let rot _ [] = []; rot 0 xs = xs; rot n (x:xs) = rot (n-1) xs ++ [x] in rot 13 ['a'..'z']
< 1321753826 644310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "nopqrstuvwxyzmlkjihgfedcba"
< 1321753829 425395 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pred <$> "OSX
< 1321753830 418899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :
< 1321753830 613336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     lexical error in string/character literal at end o...
< 1321753832 644314 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pred <$> "OSX"
< 1321753833 604709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "NRW"
< 1321753839 980722 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ <$> "OSX"
< 1321753840 976686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "PTY"
< 1321753841 898303 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Better than [[Elections in Zimbabwe]]?
< 1321753902 627869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The most thrilling page.
< 1321753907 532783 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On more than one occasion, Obama verbally attacks the economic livelihood of Las Vegas for unknown reasons. The reason may be his contempt of gambling which is forbidden in the Koran."
< 1321753916 110120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321753937 341503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And yet: Morally bankrupt Massachusetts opens the floodgates to gambling, despite its negative impact on the poor. [29]
< 1321753957 23933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, someone beat me to it: http://conservapedia.com/Talk:Main_Page#Gambling_story
< 1321753992 131075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercury's surface - evolutionists have to admit what they generally thought was wrong [5] God vs. evolutionists - God wins again!
< 1321753996 384941 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha
< 1321754015 931779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know about "liftA2 id" but that uses <*> in the definition if liftA2
< 1321754038 295694 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let rot = (uncurry (flip (++)) .) . splitAt in rot 13 ['a'..'z']
< 1321754039 932382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "nopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklm"
< 1321754048 925724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Global atheism is in decline in terms of the number of its adherents and the grassroots Question evolution! campaign could certainly accelerate this decline."
< 1321754052 999551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So beautiful.
< 1321754066 961577 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well _every_ applicative operation can be written using pure and (<*>)
< 1321754070 75089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now define an elegant rot13 character function :P
< 1321754079 102798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the worst part about Conservapedia is that it's not a troll.
< 1321754100 99560 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not?
< 1321754103 784288 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may well be trolls *involved*, but Andrew Schlafly is motherfucking serious.
< 1321754126 441090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :schlafly is my fav :')
< 1321754132 249876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know. What I am asking is if there can be something that if you have pure, fmap, <*>, then you can define one more function that it determines <*> from fmap and pure and this new function
< 1321754153 894051 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, there's certainly schadenfreude to be had.
< 1321754163 762850 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Schlafly created Conservapedia in November 2006.[12] He felt the need to start the project after reading a student's assignment written using Common Era dating notation rather than the Anno Domini system that he preferred."
< 1321754207 561758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321754221 966158 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing "shachaf" and "Shlafly" written so near each other makes their similarity apparent.
< 1321754227 660140 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That is a silly idea. Common Era and Anno Domini are the same; he can use AD if he prefers but other people can use CE or AD whatever you just have to know it is the same there are different words for that
< 1321754231 187169 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: shachaf must be a Muslim.
< 1321754240 628014 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlying logic: See: Conservapedia.
< 1321754241 759984 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED
< 1321754260 243701 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh. Now I understand.
< 1321754280 598112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: That is a silly idea. Common Era and Anno Domini are the same; he can use AD if he prefers but other people can use CE or AD whatever you just have to know it is the same there are different words for that <-- did you just completely miss the point?
< 1321754292 201139 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If bitched about AD in front of me, I'd just start using AUC dating. "Anno Urbis Conditae", "in the year of the founded city [of Rome]".
< 1321754294 126479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think you did
< 1321754298 828160 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus Christ is the person who changed the world forever with teachings of love and faith, using logical parables like the Prodigal Son that flow from the existence of God. "Jesus triumphed over the Devil, and personally set the ultimate example for mankind, by enduring the horrific process of scourging and death by crucifixion under the ancient Roman regime in obedience to God's will."
< 1321754304 837229 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :first paragraph of the article Jesus Christ
< 1321754305 742071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Vorpal is missing the point of zzo38.
< 1321754315 573632 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now 2764 AUC.
< 1321754317 290319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, hm good point.
< 1321754341 131703 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it is not the exact year of Jesus Christ; they are probably inexact by a few years. That is one reason (but not the only reason) to use "Common Era"; but "Anno Domini" is commonly known what it meant, even if the year might be inexact. Since we have the year now, we use the same calendar instead of changing it; any reference point works as long as everyone agree.
< 1321754361 428466 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I use AU. "Anno Unixine". It's 41AU.
< 1321754373 797645 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A good era.
< 1321754377 539860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I would use stardates if there was any sort of official mapping to normal years (I have no idea if there is)
< 1321754420 604987 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The only problem is that in 68AU it'll suddenly become 0AU >_>
< 1321754421 984103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You want the, aah, what's the name again.
< 1321754423 527132 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is.
< 1321754430 249768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, memory alpha?
< 1321754434 765798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321754445 186662 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does foldl (:) [] == reverse?
< 1321754446 414429 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's nothing neatly *canonical*.
< 1321754451 81372 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (:) [] [1,2,3]
< 1321754452 15068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a]
< 1321754452 656118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, oh okay
< 1321754457 204831 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, except if you consider the 2009 film.
< 1321754458 592090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, calculator?
< 1321754458 866735 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1321754463 222110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :During a Q&A session, Orci restated that a stardate is "the year, as in 2233, with the month and day expressed as a decimal point from .1 to .365 (as in the 365 days of the year)." [5] A similar reply was posted on his Twitter account: "star date=standard year, with decimal representing day of year from 1-365."
< 1321754465 958215 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (flip (:)) [] [1,2,3]
< 1321754467 605079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [3,2,1]
< 1321754468 46912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow 2009 film, that is so stupid.
< 1321754469 908039 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it's moronically trivial. YEAR_AD.DAY_OF_YEAR
< 1321754490 47897 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are many systems you can use. But for common calendar you use the Anno Domini/Common Era system. UNIX timestamp is certainly one way. You can also use stardate, Holocene, Discordian, Chinese, solar, or whatever.
< 1321754494 592506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with decimal representing day of year from 1-365." <-- I'm not sure I would call that decimal
< 1321754499 648979 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem decimal notation to me!
< 1321754499 724164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, what is the fucking name.
< 1321754501 640244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is not actually based on 1/10th
< 1321754504 912254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah!
< 1321754510 865139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Okuda timeline.
< 1321754513 577060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321754548 675619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway "with decimal representing day of year from 1-365.", means that .5 would be in about July or so? If not then the system isn't decimal
< 1321754558 47931 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The system isn't decimal.
< 1321754562 191242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1321754562 587690 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.5 would be January 5th.
< 1321754570 428767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, that is just terrible
< 1321754595 557251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, obviously .1 and .100 should be the same.
< 1321754605 628134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is like version numbers
< 1321754637 334812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I should start using decimal version numbers
< 1321754640 225981 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B581.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321754645 495607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that 1.4 is later than 1.35
< 1321754648 303809 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If it is decimal of course it has to be .1 and .100 same. In addition, it says 365 days of the year, but there can be leap years too.
< 1321754674 881878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1.4? Please: .14.
< 1321754675 60097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, stop missing the point, it is annoying
< 1321754680 159576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't operate like that you suck.
< 1321754682 395291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I use a system, ten minors is worth one major, so that it is decimal and not decimal at the same time
< 1321754685 569909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stop missing the point of zzo38, it's even more annoying.
< 1321754689 75578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1321754705 742016 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there will be no version number "1.35"
< 1321754717 89949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, version 0.14 would be less than 1.14 of course
< 1321754730 9123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, the point here is to mess up version number handling in distros...
< 1321754738 605735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Being able to use non-post-decimal-point numbers ruins it.
< 1321754741 262982 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you are trying to mess up everything?
< 1321754745 529935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can ascend in a "normal" fashion from 9 to 12.
< 1321754749 780786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, of course
< 1321754755 534200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you put everything after the decimal point, you have to plan ahead.
< 1321754758 774522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah good point
< 1321754775 161532 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am instead removing mess up everything.
< 1321754799 261371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I could just add more digits at the end, slowly converging against 1 if I didn't plan ahead enough
< 1321754807 525769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 12, 197, 21, 810, 87, 88, 89, 8999, 9, 91, 93, 934934834, 94, 99, 999, 999, 999999...
< 1321754808 820051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err s/against/towards/
< 1321754817 197270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you die, you release version 1.0.
< 1321754826 549222 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A major revision after 0.9 or a minor revision after 0.9 is still 1.0 either way, in my system.
< 1321754839 511467 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX and METAFONT version number are decimal.
< 1321754846 792122 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you die, you release version $\pi$.
< 1321754848 645815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I am instead removing mess up everything. <-- that is not even grammatically correct!
< 1321755033 187801 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: O_o
< 1321755335 355255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321755339 515838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I've forgotten how GHC gets memory from the OS.
< 1321755359 761704 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321755369 18362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ MonkeyofDoom ? welcome
< 1321755371 163245 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonkeyofDoom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321755388 622630 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321755411 117055 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just heard some people were hacking on IOCCC stuff in here so I figured I'd drop in to see what's up
< 1321755413 280955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yogscast interviewing notch (see their channel). Except well... after watching that I think they are trolling the viewers...
< 1321755420 305607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly Gregor :P
< 1321755423 388216 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321755439 64672 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais was working on something too
< 1321755443 537678 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have it on good authority that it would be "Anno Unis".
< 1321755452 140397 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Unicis
< 1321755559 994604 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/\`@ (MonkeyofDoom) \? (welcome)/\`\2 \1/
< 1321755575 815540 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Noted.
< 1321755607 782577 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321755631 520785 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also:
< 1321755633 715788 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAAAAAAAAAAAAARC
< 1321755638 509662 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparc
< 1321755650 100177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shark
< 1321755687 696390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it the register windows??? The delay sdfk??? The return addreses???
< 1321755689 531036 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNAAAAKE!
< 1321755700 489604 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some horrible, horrible combination of them.
< 1321755707 361205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Register delay addresses.
< 1321755710 960806 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good?   createDVI :: FilePath -> Word32 -> Ratio Word32 -> IO DocStat;  shipOut :: Page -> IO DocStat;  finishDVI :: DocStat -> IO ();
< 1321755778 312478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x y -> 's':x:"ar"++[y]) <*> ['a'..'z'] <*> ['a'..'z']
< 1321755779 277806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `a -> b'
< 1321755779 476516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `[GHC.T...
< 1321755793 686396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321755801 76229 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x y -> 's':x:"ar"++[y]) <$> ['a'..'z'] <*> ['a'..'z']
< 1321755802 723030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["saara","saarb","saarc","saard","saare","saarf","saarg","saarh","saari","s...
< 1321755994 485116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> dropWhile (/= "sparc") $ (\x y -> 's':x:"ar"++[y]) <*> ['a'..'z'] <*> ['a'..'z']
< 1321755995 501542 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  The lambda expression `\ x y -> 's' : x : "ar" L.++ ...'
< 1321755995 707588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : has two arguments...
< 1321756005 22690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks lambdabot
< 1321756027 951796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> dropWhile (/= "sparc") ((\x y -> 's':x:"ar"++[y]) <*> ['a'..'z'] <*> ['a'..'z'])
< 1321756028 827854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  The lambda expression `\ x y -> 's' : x : "ar" L.++ ...'
< 1321756029 10887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : has two arguments...
< 1321756031 222283 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321756068 95880 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:27   but its type `[a1 -> a -> [GHC.Types.Char]]' has none
< 1321756069 900916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1321756086 779004 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321756092 24878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> dropWhile (/= "sparc") ((\x y -> 's':x:"ar"++[y]) <$> ['a'..'z'] <*> ['a'..'z'])
< 1321756094 30812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["sparc","spard","spare","sparf","sparg","sparh","spari","sparj","spark","s...
< 1321756130 632973 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321756338 512170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ 'sparc'
< 1321756339 564604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :
< 1321756339 712986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     lexical error in string/character literal at chara...
< 1321756343 713535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ "sparc"
< 1321756344 700830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum [GHC.Types.Char])
< 1321756344 850114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1321756348 480505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph
< 1321756359 600814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking
< 1321756375 456641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hack
< 1321756375 740318 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org
< 1321756377 354497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was
< 1321756409 337151 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellio
< 1321756410 888708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321756412 777833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://conservapedia.com/Talk:Jesus_Christ
< 1321756420 560678 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is more entertaining than the Main Page
< 1321756469 535524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how this page is locked depsite conservapedia asking for people to edit it. previous unsigned comment added by User:Wikipediaisbetter
< 1321756472 626627 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how Wikipedia's article is also locked... They are better exactly how..? Fox 10:11, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
< 1321756483 765238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logic
< 1321756485 675343 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="sparc"; print $_,"\n" while($_++);
< 1321756486 53040 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :spard
< 1321756486 698793 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't deny it.
< 1321756494 694254 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321756503 418084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat
< 1321756541 628387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e '$_="sparc"; print $_,"\n" while($_++);'
< 1321756543 805017 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321756551 947993 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321756555 607154 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="sparc"; print $_,"\n" while($_++);'
< 1321756557 444973 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :spard \ spare \ sparf \ sparg \ sparh \ spari \ sparj \ spark \ sparl \ sparm \ sparn \ sparo \ sparp \ sparq \ sparr \ spars \ spart \ sparu \ sparv \ sparw \ sparx \ spary \ sparz \ spasa \ spasb \ spasc \ spasd \ spase \ spasf \ spasg \ spash \ spasi \ spasj \ spask \ spasl \ spasm \ spasn \ spaso \ spasp \ spasq \ spasr \ spass \ spast \ spasu \ spasv \ spasw \ spasx \ spasy \ spasz \ spata \ spatb \ spatc \ spatd
< 1321756577 304184 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even wraps from z back to a :P
< 1321756610 890443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know ++ had those semantics on strings.
< 1321756635 21858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spata
< 1321756657 279800 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. there are four real words there
< 1321756660 97085 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, why can't Haskell do that. (I'm sure it can, given appropriate instances)
< 1321756665 477585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone filter that with the dictionary
< 1321756668 989464 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With succ instead of ++ of course
< 1321756683 966113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run grep /usr/share/dict/words $(perl -e '$_="sparc"; print $_,"\n" while($_++);' | head -n 50)
< 1321756686 210401 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: spard: No such file or directory \ grep: spare: No such file or directory \ grep: sparf: No such file or directory \ grep: sparg: No such file or directory \ grep: sparh: No such file or directory \ grep: spari: No such file or directory \ grep: sparj: No such file or directory \ grep: spark: No such file or directory \ grep: sparl: No such file or directory \ grep: sparm: No such file or directory \ grep: sparn:
< 1321756689 17127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321756703 630667 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it won't be fun on strings, come to think of it
< 1321756711 811556 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since maxBound :: Char /= 'z'
< 1321756764 608207 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an Ix instance would work better, i think
< 1321756771 329967 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="100"; ++$_;print
< 1321756771 786804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :101
< 1321756777 89440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="aaa"; ++$_;print
< 1321756777 508201 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :aab
< 1321756800 659839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="199"; ++$_;print
< 1321756801 83789 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :200
< 1321756816 998962 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, would it? I still think you need to specialize on Strings specifically
< 1321756826 986774 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> range (('s',('a',('a',('r','a')))),('s',('z',('a',('r','z)))))
< 1321756827 971853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  :
< 1321756828 163067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     lexical error in string/character literal at chara...
< 1321756831 504491 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321756837 267472 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> range (('s',('a',('a',('r','a')))),('s',('z',('a',('r','z')))))
< 1321756838 221117 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [('s',('a',('a',('r','a')))),('s',('a',('a',('r','b')))),('s',('a',('a',('r...
< 1321756849 553764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good range
< 1321756857 102176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [ [s,p,a,r,c] | (s,p,a,r,c) <- range (('s',('a',('a',('r','a')))),('s',('z',('a',('r','z'))))) ]
< 1321756858 11029 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `(GHC.Types.Char,
< 1321756858 218206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            ...
< 1321756869 20242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [ [s,p,a,r,c] | (s,(p,(a,(r,c)))) <- range (('s',('a',('a',('r','a')))),('s',('z',('a',('r','z'))))) ]
< 1321756870 31238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["saara","saarb","saarc","saard","saare","saarf","saarg","saarh","saari","s...
< 1321756875 984142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :saarg
< 1321756877 289325 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i thought that was the one you wanted
< 1321756898 323 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no wants
< 1321756905 322068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION meditates on enlightenment.
< 1321756912 898164 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as you see, Ix works better because you can give lower/upper bounds for each element
< 1321756952 220011 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321756964 997531 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is mildly lost
< 1321756974 641506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr1 (,) "saara"
< 1321756975 468560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = (a, a)
< 1321756978 128269 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I see
< 1321756980 361853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1321756981 72191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321757003 458187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like Conservapedia is not being encyclopedic! Although some of the points might be valid in some cases, they are not correct if you are trying to be unbiased articles about stuff like encyclopedic stuff.
< 1321757034 472247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but "unbiased articles about stuff like encyclopedic stuff" is the left-wing agenda.
< 1321757039 957692 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321757068 558788 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> range ((1,3),(0,2)) -- it's meant for things like this when indexing 2d arrays
< 1321757069 579427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  []
< 1321757072 771746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321757100 207610 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> range ((1,0),(3,2))
< 1321757101 126026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [(1,0),(1,1),(1,2),(2,0),(2,1),(2,2),(3,0),(3,1),(3,2)]
< 1321757112 938678 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: O, that is what "left-wing agenda" is to them. Well, it is freedom of speech (and writing); that is why there are multiple resources to read information, including more than one if you want to. Whether or not they like that.
< 1321757154 564040 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically the us conservatives are doing their best propaganda to redefine normal as "left-wing"
< 1321757196 281799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, apparently because Wikipedia doesn't cover Jesus Christ as the savior of mankind etc, it's pushing a atheist left-wing political agenda.
< 1321757200 748261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the logic as far as I can tell.
< 1321757209 493841 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's what it looks like for most western people outside the us
< 1321757262 60748 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: When you think "left-wing agenda" you should actually think "agenda of people who don't want a Christian theocracy".
< 1321757269 60816 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it.
< 1321757281 635014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some GOP presidential candidates actually claim that NPR is a left-wing organization..
< 1321757290 711128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only some?
< 1321757297 242737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :vocally, anyway.
< 1321757313 43971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, NPR is certainly too factual to be right-wing.
< 1321757317 389027 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be left-wing!
< 1321757328 542609 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Wikipedia should probably cover Jesus Christ as savior of mankind etc, although in the different way than Conservapedia does; Wikipedia should write it like, this is according to Christians religion, and such things, instead of saying it is absolute and that stuff. But Wikipedia should still write about Jesus Christ as savior, just not the way Conservapedia does.
< 1321757331 79836 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, Fox News is "fair and balanced" reporting.
< 1321757359 69847 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm pretty sure Wikipedia does go into quite a bit of detail regarding Christian beliefs on Jesus Christ.
< 1321757382 396118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a horrendous disservice to omit that on an article about Jesus.
< 1321757447 958391 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd assume they have a whole series of articles on it
< 1321757470 931883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Homosexuality
< 1321757474 110623 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. There's enough information for it.
< 1321757509 402395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Poop
< 1321757529 497717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Obscenity "Language describing homosexual acts tends, at least in English, to have the greatest emotional impact."
< 1321757540 159542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1321757541 983962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321757544 966361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:42, 10 April 2007 TimS (Talk | contribs) deleted "Poop" ‎ (content before blanking was: '== Poop ==The word poop in the English language is the vulgar and sinful slang term referring to human excrement. We know that human excrement is th...')
< 1321757561 910813 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, they have a series on Salvation
< 1321757588 784318 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess only gay people fuck? Or what do they consider to be emotionally impacting? Varies from person to person, wouldn't it?
< 1321757608 344794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: SHUT UP FAG
< 1321757620 364054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I guess only gay people fuck?
< 1321757622 253928 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :726)  I guess only gay people fuck?
< 1321757622 903263 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think they're referring specifically to obscenities.
< 1321757650 40080 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think they're wrong
< 1321757658 573439 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MOM has the most emotional impact.
< 1321757857 6049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://liberapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321757857 447084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321757884 140507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The founder (known only as "WillH") wanted Liberapedia to parody Conservapedia and advised that: "most articles should take stereotypical liberal views and distort them to the extreme". Most arrivals since then have ignored that, and instead just written about liberal politics with dead seriousness.
< 1321757889 114492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :--RationalWiki
< 1321757895 485188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many biased encyclopedias
< 1321757906 324254 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed Christology is a wikipedia series
< 1321758115 793622 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys
< 1321758134 816620 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know being gay increases your likelihood of being a drug addict?
< 1321758149 877911 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, the homosexual population has a greater propensity to engage in illegal drug use."
< 1321758153 376530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321758196 802090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lenski_affair
< 1321758200 82322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a fun read.
< 1321758530 3926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Don't get sucked into RationalWiki.
< 1321758606 908960 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no intention of getting sucked into a wiki of any sort.
< 1321758617 308781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean, just reading it?
< 1321758618 982825 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or contributing?
< 1321758632 168120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"contributing"
< 1321758729 552645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps because you did not bother even to read our paper, or perhaps because you aren’t very bright, you seem not to understand that we have the actual, living bacteria that exhibit the properties reported in our paper, including both the ancestral strain used to start this long-term experiment and its evolved citrate-using descendants. In other words, it’s not that we claim to have glimpsed “a unicorn in the 
< 1321758736 551890 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so good
< 1321758761 231844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden” – we have a whole  population of them living in my lab! And lest you accuse  me further of fraud, I do not literally mean that we have  unicorns in the lab. Rather, I am making a literary  allusion.
< 1321759107 18728 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-34.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1321759860 173217 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Changing host
< 1321759860 257809 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321760836 834867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321761404 197331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321761668 231800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Conservapedia page about GNU/Linux mentions that Richard Stallman is atheist. The article about Donald Knuth doesn't mention that Knuth is Christian, and it says he is known as the creator of LaTeX (the article about LaTeX (there is none about TeX) mentions that Leslie Lamport invented LaTeX, not Knuth). I did look at Liberapedia too.
< 1321761707 303734 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....Does Conservapedia have a thing against F/OSS?
< 1321761709 737470 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are bad (although valid if you just want to see different point of view). Wikipedia is more complete and better, although it too might omit some things. It is why they make things such as Wikinfo and various articles people write.
< 1321761727 35149 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't tell Stallman that I lumped Free Software and Open Source together)
< 1321761731 796893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not as far as I can see.
< 1321761749 440382 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia does tend to have a postmodernist bias on many topics, though it's getting better slowly.
< 1321761773 594600 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly on topics that mainly only postmodernists care much about, such as colonialism
< 1321761902 781676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Stallman actually has no issues with one lumping them together in contexts where that makes sense. He *may* object to your characterising GNU as "F/OSS", though.
< 1321761960 300937 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'd imagine Conservapedia mostly has an anti-geek bias. I'm surprised there's even an *article* on rms.
< 1321762100 333860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: which of the 5000 definitions of postmodern are you using
< 1321762255 425199 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "a loosely related set of philosophies deriving ultimately from the work of Heidegger holding that there is no such thing as absolute truth or objective reality and that so-called 'facts' are social constructions created through 'narrative' or 'discourse,' lately said to be actively manipulated by the Evil White Heterosexual Euro-American Male to oppress the glorious Other, whom he fears and seeks to quash."
< 1321762349 862879 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that even *slightly* prevalent?
< 1321762361 177150 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: as I said, it's gotten better lately
< 1321762365 529479 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as an actual thing, rather than some strawman figure?
< 1321762381 150355 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's quite popular in academia
< 1321762395 72377 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: especially in social sciences and literary criticism
< 1321762425 353136 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh.
< 1321762431 40032 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: at my graduate school (San Francisco State University), it was orthodoxy, and daring to question any aspect of it was strongly discouraged.
< 1321762458 738747 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ironically, for a philosophy that claims to be open to all viewpoints and claims to not be privileging any one over another)
< 1321762548 219253 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, um, I'm having a bit of difficulty believing such things exist. That's really hitting Poe's Law levels of "... Wut?"
< 1321762566 515964 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the typical response to the trivial criticism of "Well, it itself suggests that some viewpoints are false"
< 1321762579 118213 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, on the west coast of the US, it's metastasized and spread out of the universities into the mainstream of the culture.
< 1321762580 711879 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I suspect should only effect a strawman
< 1321762597 381263 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'd go with "Rephrase that as something substantial please."
< 1321762598 649857 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is ignoring the word "lately" and everything after
< 1321762602 321982 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the typical response is to get mad and accuse the person saying that of being a {racist, sexist, etc}
< 1321762651 243910 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the lack of objective reality itself a fact of objective reality?
< 1321762664 963035 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my professors got really mad at me when I asked them that.
< 1321762714 926393 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also offered to retract my views on objective reality if anyone could jump off a bridge and manage to fly instead of splattering messily on the sidewalk in my presence. strangely, there were no takers.
< 1321762729 564153 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, strictly speaking, it is *unknowable* whether there is an "objective reality", I at least think.
< 1321762744 964681 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the *correct* answer to "is there an objective reality?" is "sure seems like it."
< 1321762796 854697 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, such discussions are at best pointless mental masturbation.
< 1321762810 651858 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You imply that mental masturbation is pointless
< 1321762815 90980 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that would be the problem with logical positivism that the postmodernists claim to be addressing. Karl Popper also addressed this point far better with his critical rationalist theory that (informally) while we may not know with 100% ∫certainty whether something is objectively true, it may be taken to probably be true until it is falsified.
< 1321762822 516997 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, I state it.
< 1321762844 98779 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is indeed mere pointless mental masturbation, which is why I am no longer in academia and have a real job now.
< 1321762860 412104 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I get paid as much as 2 or 3 professors
< 1321762860 938635 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is pointless about something that is interesting to think about?
< 1321762873 82790 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next you'll say that purely theoretical math is pointless
< 1321762880 204646 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in academia mainly so that I can acquire the nickname "Doctah G, PhD"
< 1321762880 299047 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental masturbation is only a half or a third as important as practical work, that is
< 1321762881 923436 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321762899 654992 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: trying to convince asshats that you're right is largely pointless. academia comes down more to politics than to actually being right, especially in soft sciences
< 1321762909 444786 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're in a different form of academia.
< 1321762938 84925 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what do you study?
< 1321762946 215055 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Doesn't change my statement.
< 1321762948 187224 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: CS.
< 1321762948 648648 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard sciences seems like a paradise, where you can actually prove that you're right
< 1321762949 433072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're in the land of CS, math, science, and engineering. At least in principle, you need to deal with reality.
< 1321762969 189439 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "reality" isn't quite the right term for math.
< 1321762972 332356 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321762980 572653 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it can be provably internally consistent
< 1321762990 607443 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: Actually no.
< 1321763011 358338 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: Gödel ring a bell?
< 1321763079 380259 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: actually, yes, I've looked into that in some detail. Goedel's incompleteness theorem says that a certain class of logical statements are EITHER internally inconsistent OR rely on external axioms.
< 1321763101 867435 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :since "math" as that term is commonly used uses external axioms, it can be provably internally consistent
< 1321763189 281300 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :most commonly https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Zermelo%E2%80%93Fraenkel_set_theory for the axioms, but there are other choices
< 1321763227 190700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what? Fuck it, I shouldn't discuss this.
< 1321763231 170962 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION summons oerjan
< 1321763235 229644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oerjan: oerjan:
< 1321763260 752950 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :social sciences COULD be similarly rigorized. but the establishment (professors currently in tenure) actively resist any attempt to impart the use of logic into the field. logic being an invention of the Evil White Heterosexual Man created for the specific purpose of oppressing brown people, gays, women, etc.
< 1321763269 770696 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least on the west coast)
< 1321763288 505642 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: ... So, they reject logic, eh?
< 1321763294 841932 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, asdfhhbcixv;bjkosdahtfp9gxcjgidaf;
< 1321763306 736064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooool kwertii is so full of shit
< 1321763325 816105 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wish I was
< 1321763340 394925 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: actually, it's based on politics. you have to write something flattering to your advisor, not just random crap
< 1321763340 625838 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :\
< 1321763374 337852 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321763376 854101 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1321763398 674488 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: I am seriously finding this incredibly hard to believe.
< 1321763402 847470 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a realisable design for a slice processor :D
< 1321763405 571061 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: :(
< 1321763414 192446 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't reject it, but it seems so utterly *implausible*.
< 1321763436 625756 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So because of IOCCC's size restrictions, I wrote a golf assistant.
< 1321763448 992641 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you've obviously never spent much time at a California university
< 1321763449 951243 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about golfing the golf assistant and submitting it to IOCCC.
< 1321763459 494450 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is, then it'd just be golfed, not obfuscated :P
< 1321763461 562389 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: Indeed not.
< 1321763508 357895 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/faculty/bucholtz/cv.html
< 1321763558 644594 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no idea what I should be getting out of that CV.
< 1321763567 887316 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: read a few of her publications and you'll see what I'm talking about
< 1321763582 376984 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You da Man: Narrating the Racial Other in the Linguistic Production of White Masculinity," Journal of Sociolinguistics 3(4): 443-460, 1999
< 1321763617 498837 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr - white men are always seeking to appropriate the black man's "cultural identity" by stealing his slang, a subtle, ubiquitous, and hitherto unrecognized form of racism
< 1321763640 373640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Gregor why not drown out this off-topic inane prattle with an ioccc update
< 1321763647 468443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you fix sparc? :P
< 1321763647 950626 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was trying :P
< 1321763651 864532 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was trying :P
< 1321763656 749852 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: I see no such implications from the abstract of said publication.
< 1321763730 252370 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right now I'm focused more on making it a more complete dc, as I'm quite afraid that I'll run out of bits.
< 1321763744 165863 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what "the narrative preserves the racial hierarchy that enables white cultural appropriation of African American culture through language crossing" means
< 1321763747 403789 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pomo-speak
< 1321763777 954796 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://richarddawkins.net/articles/824 Richard Dawkins on postmodernist vernacular
< 1321763820 976080 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol postmodernism
< 1321763822 77853 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they just came out and said it in ordinary language, nobody would pay any attention to them. they have to dress it up in pompous jargon
< 1321763831 33305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: pls, nobody gives a shit, take it to /msg if you must
< 1321763846 177142 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pikhq_ asked.
< 1321763857 251411 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That said*, this article seems to spend much time on irrelevancies in its discussion of the spread of features of African-American Vernacular English.
< 1321763859 758337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have, in general, one problem with Skeptics Annotated Bible, which is that the deuterocanonical/apocrypha books are not included.
< 1321763864 282599 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, frankly, this discussion is really boring me.
< 1321763895 11051 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: and yet you've kept participating in it and moving it further along
< 1321763910 373150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut
< 1321763911 202102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the
< 1321763912 820712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck
< 1321763913 615964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :up
< 1321763914 193765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: s/really boring/starting to really bore/
< 1321763917 445871 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude
< 1321763919 881922 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric ::''(
< 1321763955 689357 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wish there were a SPARC expert about.
< 1321763986 223551 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s.engramstudio.com/src/101467.jpg
< 1321764032 368336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The reason for that is, undoubtedly, due to the target audience being *American* atheists.
< 1321764040 601983 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrida should be punched in the face for différence / différance
< 1321764063 808447 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in America the prevalent forms of Christianity are Protestant, and thus don't care about the apocrypha.
< 1321764075 310732 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems like people are interested after all
< 1321764099 766153 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm at 2635 bytes raw, and don't have everything implemented >_>
< 1321764133 48534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: orly:
< 1321764135 622708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so Gregor why not drown out this off-topic inane prattle with an ioccc update
< 1321764139 408228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I was trying :P
< 1321764141 615651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : And, frankly, this discussion is really boring me.
< 1321764143 819445 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if you could get a midi player in that little code... probably not
< 1321764180 495394 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: I'm sure you could get a really bad one.
< 1321764183 592213 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and madbr> derrida should be punched in the face for différence / différance
< 1321764198 696505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 > 2
< 1321764219 610859 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: hmm, sounds hard to fit in the synthesis
< 1321764230 189143 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pikhq_ was actively discussing and only suddenly became bored when you indicated that you disliked the topic. I think he likes you.
< 1321764233 117031 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 128 damn patches, plus all the drums
< 1321764234 555679 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Just need a sufficiently bad synthesis :)
< 1321764239 465689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not entirely atheists; they have Christian responses too. They also say you can have your own opinion. It is for both believers and skeptics. And people who just want to read it including annotations and cross-references, which you can disagree if you want to, or agree, or agree with some and disagree with others.
< 1321764252 239257 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321764255 439648 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: You are thinking waaaaay to far into it. My synth would be square waves. MAYBE sine waves.
< 1321764269 159682 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: I guess it's not too hard if you play everything with square waves and ignore all the controllers
< 1321764278 143841 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321764280 164595 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :square waves are boring :(
< 1321764283 799714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: ah! conspiracy theories
< 1321764284 30592 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just need to process noteon/noteoff events.
< 1321764288 231401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: this keeps getting better and better
< 1321764291 228490 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: So's your face, but you don't see us complaining.
< 1321764296 978737 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHH RANDOM
< 1321764303 283289 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1321764314 76378 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably do better than square waves ...
< 1321764331 724341 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, within the amount of space, you MAY be able to fit a heuristic mapping instruments to square, sine or saw.
< 1321764345 634911 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since all instruments are one of the three, DONE :P
< 1321764350 602348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I appreciate your liking me but unfortunately I cannot reciprocate, we must duel to the death.
< 1321764357 826057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day." Well, actually, while there are examples of illogical things in the Bible, this is not one of them. There can be light and radiation and so on in the beginning of the universe;
< 1321764374 623654 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The target *audience* of the Skeptic's Annotated is clearly atheists, though.
< 1321764374 902353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: btw i wouldn't submit the twitter interp to ioccc
< 1321764377 531823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: although hmm
< 1321764382 91411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't look at authors so might as well
< 1321764386 135680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be photon and gravity and everything else. (Some Christians say it is the "Light of God"; still valid, but not scientific.)
< 1321764392 720425 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my part of the US, most of the Christians are Catholic
< 1321764393 604041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking two "short language impl" submissions from one person might go badly :P
< 1321764403 945149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That some other groups may be interested is fairly irrelevant.
< 1321764417 205261 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's somewhat exceptional.
< 1321764421 789038 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1321764431 685176 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: isn't catholic church going badly these days?
< 1321764435 813081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The jig is up!
< 1321764444 575945 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I was only thinking of it given that they don't look at the author :P
< 1321764452 848454 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But actually, now I'm thinking about a MIDI player ;)
< 1321764458 509982 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, *shrug*
< 1321764462 508086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : However the second part of that annotation says "And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?" and that is a valid point; there cannot be evening/morning without the sun. The people that wrote that part just made some mistake, or never intended it to be logical, or whatever. I don't know for sure.
< 1321764472 51539 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what it looks in us but here over 80% of people are catholic on paper
< 1321764474 677170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Outputting how?
< 1321764477 901844 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but irl nobody goes to church
< 1321764482 479502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wav to stdout
< 1321764484 463271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you don't say "PC speaker", I don't like you.
< 1321764497 881921 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OMG PLATFORM SPECIFIX
< 1321764504 831946 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dunno how many actually believe in god but it's certainly not 80% :D
< 1321764520 241610 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: Well, that's pretty strange to think. I was mostly discussing to see if it would actually go anywhere. Most I got was "postmodernists suck at writing".
< 1321764534 118294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could probably do OSS in about two lines; if /dev/audio or whatever it is exists, open it, redir stdout to it and skip headers.
< 1321764567 267586 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, I do have some commentary on that point, but I won't deepen your boredom by relating it and forcing you to read it
< 1321764569 827005 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Here in the US, 85% of people claim to be Christian. Also, churches are exceptionally common.
< 1321764578 536532 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Considering that I can't seem to get dc to fit, *waaah* :(
< 1321764583 439637 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of church here too
< 1321764586 520508 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're empty
< 1321764597 444477 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they're not empty, they're full of old people
< 1321764602 880632 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've been inside a church 0 or 1 times
< 1321764614 254792 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION increments that to 1 or 2
< 1321764637 468955 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of "3x catholics"
< 1321764637 613769 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: We've got churches with 50,000 people attending a week.
< 1321764654 837464 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes to church on birth, marriage, death :D
< 1321764668 924483 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Lakewood1.jpg
< 1321764671 856891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: int q=open("/dev/audio",O_RDWR);if(q>0)dup2(q,1);else{...print wav headers...}
< 1321764676 739781 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what part of the US you're in. some suburban and rural areas are still highly religious in terms of % of people attending church. I would be surprised if 1 in 100 attends church in New York City.
< 1321764694 816976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 55 chars for OSS support :P
< 1321764695 464196 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, You used to, well, at least be a Christian, I don't know if you went to church
< 1321764696 623209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it /dev/dsp...
< 1321764699 481046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be shorter.
< 1321764704 201204 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Vaguely regularly.
< 1321764737 609915 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that important to me. Which is kinda odd, thinking back.
< 1321764741 937386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For shorter points, try ~0 instead of O_RDWR, there's a good chance that won't break systems :)
< 1321764754 210147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can also avoid the "int " by reusing argc, ofc.
< 1321764779 400349 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I was, thinking that there was this omnipotent being that was going to send me to eternal torment if I didn't act right, and for the most part I was just apathetic about the whole ordeal.
< 1321764783 308464 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~0?
< 1321764805 635421 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, wait what? You didn't believe that God was mostly good, and cares more about actions?
< 1321764822 326383 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hm, I'm using -1 instead of ~0 in the JIT. C doesn't explicitly specify 2's-complement, does it X-D
< 1321764826 923774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doing bad things would be "not acting right".
< 1321764841 19381 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread/skimmed what pikhq_ said
< 1321764858 578808 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Clearly" if you did bad things you were not good.
< 1321764865 916603 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm just not sure how going to Church is an essential part of "acting right"
< 1321764865 961908 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: in theory no but wouldn't it be really hard to find a platform that's not 2's complement? :D
< 1321764880 43178 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now it would probably break some of my sound rendering code :D
< 1321764881 780713 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I lived with my extremely fundamentalist father, though, I mostly got a motherfucking *ton* of guilt.
< 1321764883 715063 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know
< 1321764888 250646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was younger, I believed that if there was a hell, it was mostly reserved for people like Hitler
< 1321764891 884370 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminder: Jesus hates masturbation! And lust!
< 1321764896 820531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: if(0
< 1321765110 368731 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that all sins are created equal.
< 1321765115 855093 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that masturbation is a sin.
< 1321765161 259791 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, masturbation is equal to the Holocaust.
< 1321765191 832514 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Catholics have 2 classes of sin, venal and mortal. if you die with an unforgiven mortal sin on you, you're in deep shit. not sure where masturbation fits on the spectrum.
< 1321765204 135238 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably venal
< 1321765231 858427 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what's the border for "lust" :D
< 1321765253 126893 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure, however, that committees of Catholic canon lawyers have discussed the matter at great length
< 1321765452 720418 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems they consider masturbation "grave" - ie probably a mortal sin
< 1321765458 465378 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucked up
< 1321765508 598741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a religion based around a zombie Jew.
< 1321765534 355299 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :what better way to exert deep psychological control over the populace than require everyone to confess their every sexual thought and act to a priest until they're married?
< 1321765576 738951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So how were you planning to play MIDI files.
< 1321765581 107532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To PCM.
< 1321765582 951710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean WAV.
< 1321765680 153189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: BTW, I think per-thread pools are untenable for @.
< 1321765702 653202 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read the midi messages into synthesizer parameters, play that, output? :D
< 1321765767 527965 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could reduce patch data to about 12 bits of data... but it would probably be hard to make fit
< 1321765871 402002 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looks like MIDI is not nearly as popular a topic as either postmodernism or religious views of masturbation were
< 1321765889 333699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Even if it's just a single 4 kilobyte page, that's still 4 gigs for a million threads.
< 1321765897 399149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: lol you are really upset
< 1321765910 288363 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: .. no. I don't mind
< 1321765919 456993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you keep bringing it up
< 1321765922 522004 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes MIDI files
< 1321765928 264415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Gregor did answer my question, just in /query :)
< 1321765933 465565 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a collection of them
< 1321765953 792185 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://daychilde.com/midiguy/ (Note: legality unknown)
< 1321765970 260757 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1321766016 55876 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s.engramstudio.com/src/virt_-_BLT_Big_Lion_Television_Hour_01.mid
< 1321766020 58351 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if I could get labels for the unlabelled songs
< 1321766096 122610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OTOH, I can't think of any other decent way to divide pools...
< 1321766116 830345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I could do per-CPU (I don't want aaaaany locking, so it can't go coarser-grained than this), but that seems really weird.
< 1321766122 326212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would also suck to GC.
< 1321766126 596923 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tour de force would be fitting in a reverb in too
< 1321766146 116812 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tbh a reverb would probably take an IOCCC entry by itself
< 1321766266 139164 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe you're thinking about this the wrong way around.
< 1321766276 648589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plausible :P
< 1321766282 189889 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you should have some number of memory pools, and assign threads to them.
< 1321766304 765726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, I was thinking of that... but the problem is basically:
< 1321766315 971668 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The granularity is a little arbitrary I admit, but you're only really wanting to split up allocations, so.
< 1321766318 515795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually
< 1321766329 795614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ this might be simple enough that it can be done atomically from multiple CPUs
< 1321766337 780529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov rax, [rsp+N]
< 1321766337 825846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :add [rsp+N], 8
< 1321766344 547638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two CPUs doing that at once should be just fine, right? Even if 8 diffes.
< 1321766345 552258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err
< 1321766349 549684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/rsp+N/some shared location/
< 1321766351 887972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*differs
< 1321766364 634670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at the very worst it can waste some space, which GC will clean up.
< 1321766380 72295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that's not safe.
< 1321766387 121355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because someone else could steal that heap pointer before the add.
< 1321766391 368916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that should race.
< 1321766404 218379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :add [blah], 8
< 1321766404 263625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov rax, [blah]
< 1321766404 263778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub rax, 8
< 1321766411 186984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be safe, though, with the race condition of "wasting space".
< 1321766458 658725 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably just use compare-and-swap.
< 1321766474 613004 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: bye
< 1321766488 989229 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMPXCHG*
< 1321766556 855074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yeah, but it's easier to make sure pools are never concurrently accessed from more than one CPU :)
< 1321766585 113245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still access /objects/ on that pool.
< 1321766591 799769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GC just has to know which threads are using which pool.
< 1321766596 657834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :('s objects)
< 1321766826 484116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: This is wearing me down, so I'll pose a more fun question: How hard, and how slow, would it be to do a linked-list stack on x86-64 in place of the regular call stack? Then: Does this generalise easily to a spaghetti stack?
< 1321766867 834016 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea I have, is Haskell command "if instance" which is like a normal "if" command, but in place of the condition you have the word "instance" followed by a constraint specification (which might include type synonyms too), and the expression for the true part is allowed to use those constraints.
< 1321766871 48191 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaghetti stack?
< 1321766889 43161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No! Breaks parametricity!
< 1321766893 477731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_stack
< 1321766894 507351 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have various ideas about instance disambiguation.
< 1321766925 946531 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard? Not *exceptionally*.
< 1321766928 840771 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, So does seq
< 1321766930 682110 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow? I honestly have no idea.
< 1321766944 708343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not even remotely in the same ballpark.
< 1321766958 545937 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wouldn't that turn every push/pop into a memory allocation?
< 1321766965 37053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: See "Fast and loose reasoning is morally correct"
< 1321766974 109441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..?
< 1321766985 154905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/jeremy.gibbons/publications/#fast+loose
< 1321766994 757565 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't the point of a stack the fact that you don't need complicated algos of doom to allocate/deallocate it? :D
< 1321766998 962172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes, but allocations can be cheap (my current allocator takes two cycles)
< 1321767013 789311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's hardly complicated *shrugs*
< 1321767117 602289 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh really? if that's true, that's impressive yes
< 1321767139 361326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It's called "bump pointer".
< 1321767155 629225 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321767171 149020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yeah, it looks like this:
< 1321767176 158048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocated_object = pool_ptr;
< 1321767179 588121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pool_ptr += size;
< 1321767188 756973 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One purpose for "if instance" is in case you want to define some class methods of a instance that require another instance and default otherwise, or define other functions that a few parts of them work only on specific instances but still work OK in general without, or to do conditional compilation (even "backwards"; i.e. an imported module checks conditions of the module it is imported into), etc
< 1321767197 288764 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but then how do you defragment ram? :D
< 1321767202 380757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: copying gc
< 1321767211 224931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: pools have a 4k "barrier" page after them so that when you access beyond the limit of the pool the gc runs
< 1321767217 597940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no branches required at all
< 1321767244 891316 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't you get an interrupt instead of a branch?
< 1321767256 626605 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess you don't have to test it each time tho
< 1321767259 19843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yes, it's expensive when you trigger a gc
< 1321767264 407595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: but most allocations fit within the current pool :P
< 1321767267 550354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are free
< 1321767314 192856 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough :D
< 1321767321 511160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This does present issues if the allocation is greater than the barrier page size, though.
< 1321767328 695412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah
< 1321767334 257155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for allocations under 4k
< 1321767336 978689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is most allocations
< 1321767342 347655 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true.
< 1321767350 201513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a tiny bit of arithmetic and a branch for larger allocations
< 1321767356 44166 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does free() work
< 1321767366 96910 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't.
< 1321767366 990319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: it doesn't, gc
< 1321767372 182763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an impl of free
< 1321767375 67141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :free(ptr) {}
< 1321767377 469645 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh heh
< 1321767387 575450 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1321767390 504584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fastest free() evar, I can prove it
< 1321767425 881087 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not free once you have to gc though :D
< 1321767456 577856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: no, but gc is faster than manual memory management for most cases :)
< 1321767461 423387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and @ has several nice properties that make it even faster
< 1321767471 315078 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to line up gc with when the user blinks
< 1321767481 415245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321767483 978412 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why front-facing cameras are so popular these days
< 1321767487 194603 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like the names "ecliptic longitude" and "ecliptic latitude" for those coordinates very much, since equatorial coordinates have "right ascension" and "declination".
< 1321767491 603071 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monkeyofdoom: how does that work with sound code? :D
< 1321767509 506660 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: you should reuse your buffers there
< 1321767524 201086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have other ideas about Haskell instance disambiguation. I can write it in my user space in Haskell wiki.
< 1321767525 704523 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :underflow=baaad
< 1321767540 465409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: i'm actually interested in making a concurrent gc so that gc pauses last a couple dozen cycles at most and having it decide which to use at runtime
< 1321767547 411572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's very hard, it'd need to swap out the allocator
< 1321767557 4611 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but what happens if some part of the app starts garbage collecting, which blocks off the sound generating thread?
< 1321767557 476871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since obviously you can't wait until you run out of pool to gc :p
< 1321767574 502007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: this is per-thread; in @ threads are very very cheap, not like typical OS threads
< 1321767578 536381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're more like lightweight coroutines
< 1321767587 463504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just happen to be able to run on multiple cpus and are preemptive :p
< 1321767592 414821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have thousands of them, easily
< 1321767596 31000 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :was talking to monkeyofdoom but that sounds good yeah :D
< 1321767610 295455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stopping a thread at a time isn't a big deal... but it is true that you can write a tight sound loop in a single thread and it doesn't work out
< 1321767616 822278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously if you avoid allocating it's fine but yeah
< 1321767620 317323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on that :P
< 1321767642 134666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ will probably be pretty nice for audio stuff too since it's like Synthesis in that you can get away with tiny buffers
< 1321767651 331413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Synthesis that's because it did all kinds of tricks to minimise syscall overhead
< 1321767652 122258 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you setup things so that the sound thread never has to allocate or deallocate
< 1321767656 681946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with @ it's because syscall overhead doesn't exist
< 1321767688 255912 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a program that streams audio from the disk you have 2 threads :D
< 1321767709 462938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: that's a bit harder with @, since the code would be in a purely functional language ... but you can certainly minimise allocations :)
< 1321767740 145969 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321767763 794265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this actually makes @ more efficient in general
< 1321767787 258097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it completely avoids userspace<->kernel context switching, hardware rings, slow allocators, ...
< 1321767844 216749 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it's removing all the abstraction layers that a decent language has to abstract again. :P
< 1321767883 92430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, @ especially excels at allocation and IO performance
< 1321767891 445636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty good for "realtimeish" code like audio
< 1321767905 754161 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1321767922 184184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia
< 1321767943 434696 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1321767948 278370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the frowny
< 1321767988 571879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: i'm also interesting in making the language expressive enough that you can e.g. limit dynamic allocation of a certain piece of code statically at compile-time
< 1321767999 955071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you break that contract the code won't compile
< 1321768012 177130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you know if you fuck it up or if something you call fucks it up for you
< 1321768149 534871 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't a frown
< 1321768151 858142 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was straight
< 1321768160 978832 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i posted it in almost every channel i'm in
< 1321768163 334933 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shits
< 1321768169 58379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not giggles?
< 1321768182 159341 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to giggle with a straight face
< 1321768194 67216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321768223 287445 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said that after I make dvi-processing package for Haskell, they might add DVI output to Pandoc. I looked at Pandoc and have other ideas too:
< 1321768237 797485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* MediaWiki format for input and output.
< 1321768249 103636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ESC/P format for input and output.
< 1321768279 997807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pure ASCII format for output, with option for LF/CRLF, line wrap, and form feeds.
< 1321768287 142017 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Plain TeX format for output.
< 1321768334 523211 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Support additional URI schemes: data ftp gopher
< 1321768350 536276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Plain Old Documentation (as Perl) input and output.
< 1321768430 600683 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* UNIX manual page format input and output.
< 1321768443 583605 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion/comment/complaint about this please?
< 1321768589 724944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure he'd love patches
< 1321768812 223094 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. If you add up all countries' reported transactions, the world had $331 billion in net exports.
< 1321768824 77431 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise we were trading with, I dunno, Mars.
< 1321768859 538994 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the article I read that from made pretty much the exact same comment
< 1321768860 262385 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1321768944 314217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It's the compromise the Andromedans agreed to. The population at large remains blissfully ignorant.
< 1321768952 950694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out the Earth has some interesting natural resources.
< 1321769001 254285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it has output MediaWiki and UNIX manual pages, but cannot input those formats. It also seem to only currently support "http" and "https" URI schemes.
< 1321769124 70043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't the Andromedans [Ed story spoilers]
< 1321769131 995294 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no
< 1321769201 540551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I was going to ask how coroutine implementations on Unix allocate tiny stacks while stopping coroutines from stepping on each other's stacks, then I realised that they just won't bother *sigh*
< 1321769230 451480 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: stuff lost in transport?
< 1321769308 12195 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot
< 1321769316 706629 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly working on a replacement for subtractive synthesis :D
< 1321769316 944238 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done implementing my subset-of-c++ compiler for class
< 1321769319 672060 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so great
< 1321769325 556341 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: cool
< 1321769326 296205 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want to write a register allocator
< 1321769331 592288 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the work is done on the stack
< 1321769337 180519 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mips)
< 1321769385 494404 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I've figured out an interesting CPU design
< 1321769391 500825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just do what all the cool kids do, assume there are infinite registers :)
< 1321769406 406451 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is people making Pandoc, in #haskell channel?
< 1321769422 383136 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a RISC with a fast calculation unit
< 1321769450 59939 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have not confirmed this, but I suspect the prof has an expression with too many subexpressions to fit at some point
< 1321769460 476931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, i just meant internally
< 1321769466 960083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: then you can really trivially use registers
< 1321769472 471242 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, I know
< 1321769479 149225 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :executes all the normal code in risc mode, then when it gets to a special loop that's optimised in handwritten assembly for the special execution unit, switches to that mode
< 1321769482 694340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you could just assign the first N virtual registers to the real ones if you want to claim to do register allocation :D
< 1321769501 461712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think compilers will have really made it when they implement malloc() for register numbers
< 1321769508 142807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will have reinvented
< 1321769509 530872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the heap"
< 1321769511 295657 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :special execution mode is for doing sound mixing and graphic rendering loops
< 1321769521 930123 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of stuff that gets optimised in assembly anyways
< 1321769530 201140 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, there's a bonus which is to get code size down
< 1321769550 634814 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :special execution unit is a kind of vliw
< 1321769556 640047 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I may go for a naive subexpression-based allocator
< 1321769584 712312 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a whole bunch of mini-units that are a multiplexer + ALU + register
< 1321769586 157556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: See, here I was going to suggest something like superoptimisation, if compile time isn't a criterion.
< 1321769609 509449 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1321769612 924926 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: That's a lot to lose in transport.
< 1321769625 794093 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :transport?
< 1321769630 867159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It would shorten complicated arithmetic!!!
< 1321769635 567028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr:  pikhq: stuff lost in transport?
< 1321769636 629523 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1321769640 322492 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1321769659 202097 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm interspersing IRC with 10 minute SRS sessions ATM. :)
< 1321769662 8028 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ie the multiplexers would gobble up lots of space? :D
< 1321769678 141234 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRS
< 1321769678 917647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321769708 636392 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I should add that we're on a sufficiently small subset of mips to make that almost irrelevant
< 1321769709 908986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ is having the world's slowest sex resasignment surgery.
< 1321769711 477117 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Spaced Repitition System".
< 1321769723 111887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :-(
< 1321769735 579101 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no bitwise ops, in particular
< 1321769756 206453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One rather obnoxiously good means of learning large quantities of things; I find it particularly handy in language acquisition.
< 1321769758 766297 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw when I mean all work, I mean all
< 1321769763 825608 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wouldn't that be a relatively fast sex reassignment surgery, given that it usually takes about five years or so?
< 1321769782 226717 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah on any given cycle, each ALU gets one opcode, executes it and the result is stored in the corresponding register
< 1321769785 552217 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a = b + c first pushes b, then pushes c, then pops them and pushes b + c, then pops that and assigns to a
< 1321769803 101298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: I don't think a 5-year single period of surgery is involved :P
< 1321769813 938437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Congratulations! You're compiling to Forth!
< 1321769815 167636 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it reads the values for the ALU from other special unit registers
< 1321769829 851297 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially you specify a data flow
< 1321769882 622337 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: that's called a vector processor
< 1321769902 416600 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't vector processors essentially apply SIMD?
< 1321769904 672541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so essentially you specify a data flow ;; you mean a GPU? :P
< 1321769919 718447 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with GPU architecture :D
< 1321769927 600151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think http://www.yosefk.com/blog/simd-simt-smt-parallelism-in-nvidia-gpus.html is relevant.
< 1321769958 373269 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the fact that GPUs are on the other side of the bus and that you can only control them sorta indirectly
< 1321769979 895477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: you'd like larrabee
< 1321769984 340658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what amd are doing
< 1321769992 309567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's gluing a cpu and gpu together :P
< 1321770009 384610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, larrabee isn't actually cancelled?
< 1321770010 792584 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a rather obvious move when people start programming GPUs, TBH.
< 1321770045 807426 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hmm. The PCIe bus is a major source of latency." "Can't we just stick it on the die?" "..."
< 1321770063 779855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just eliminate all buses.
< 1321770074 861894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck public transport, the next CPU I buy better not require a motherboard.
< 1321770086 854639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a CPU with a shitload of USB ports on every single side of it.
< 1321770091 645240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a power lead.
< 1321770111 179020 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Strictly speaking, the project was, but the fruits of it are going into production.
< 1321770210 943733 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruits of it?
< 1321770312 385168 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea I have about Haskell instance override is like this (use scoped type variables):  module Example where { value1 :: Int; value1 = 2 + 3; value2 :: (Num x, x ~ Int) => x; value2 = (2 :: x) + 3; }  module Main where { import Example; instance Num Int where { _ + _ = 42; }; main = print (value1, value2); }
< 1321770318 29575 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't larrabbee basically a multicore pentium with a huge ass simd unit and some hardware multi-load and bilinear interpolate instructions? :D
< 1321770346 364608 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah my idea isn't actually SIMD
< 1321770352 848992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I am slightly mistake, though.
< 1321770360 243014 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Multicore" doesn't quite describe it.
< 1321770378 99839 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a a hybrid between a FPGA and a CPU
< 1321770402 959096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: specifying microcode isn't really fpga, if i understand your idea from reading half of every third line about it
< 1321770404 900465 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 48 core CPU.
< 1321770429 205151 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point of a fpga is that it's rather parallel
< 1321770441 103440 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you create a bunch of components
< 1321770441 382270 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Can you write a document of this idea please?
< 1321770443 601086 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: The point of an FPGA is that it's *specifying circuitry*.
< 1321770482 43879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321770483 185797 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a redesignable integrated circuit.
< 1321770501 451979 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :most components are basically a bunch of registers for which you specify "ok on next clock cycle this gets a value based on [other registers and math circuits]
< 1321770507 914781 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell
< 1321770546 430125 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, yeah, but afaik almost any design is register based
< 1321770567 20576 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: hmm
< 1321770581 379199 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: probably yeah
< 1321770594 704370 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose your processor has 32 units
< 1321770672 75904 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each unit, you specify an ALU opcode, and two source registers, and a cycle from which the data becomes "valid" (before that cycle, the register doesn't get written to)
< 1321770678 336256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, time to read about the programmable pipeline
< 1321770701 585794 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a user programmable pipeline yeah
< 1321770711 883979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wasn't talking about this :)
< 1321770737 837353 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the units are special and can do memory reads
< 1321770749 368223 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or memory writes
< 1321770751 41762 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it reprogram itself, or must it be reprogrammed externally?
< 1321770776 301303 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: it's programmed by the RISC part of the processor
< 1321770817 383713 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically code reaches some part that needs beefy power, the risc processor fills in all the registers of the fast unit and kicks off execution
< 1321770938 749644 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :once that's done executing, control goes back to the risc part, that presumably reads out some values from the fast execution unit and cleans up and returns to C++ code
< 1321770941 987424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, opengl is so complicated
< 1321770974 218461 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sometimes that's required in order to make the api useful
< 1321770994 540935 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants to know if they're arrows or not
< 1321770995 202389 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1321771001 287412 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows?
< 1321771001 598836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is arrows
< 1321771004 401130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1321771007 426648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you want to know whether is etc.
< 1321771013 907135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: sure, but it's annoying when a large part of the complexity is gunk caused by the host language :)
< 1321771040 178014 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least it's not oop :D
< 1321771053 428372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's that
< 1321771054 831914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGAs. As far as I understand, circuitry can be represented with arrows, unless the circuit can modify itself
< 1321771074 164372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there are arrow dsls for hardware design in haskell yes i believe
< 1321771083 93495 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: ah
< 1321771104 406086 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: isn't an arrow basically "on next cycle this register takes [value whatever]" ? :D
< 1321771107 530287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but a york lava-style approach is nicer, arrows suck :P
< 1321771115 951096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Control-Arrow.html
< 1321771120 129061 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but can FPGAs be represented by such, or are they capable of reprogramming themselves in a way that would require ArrowApply?
< 1321771139 422168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: FPGAs can't be reprogrammed at runtime, obviously. and it's not clear what you mean by "represented by"
< 1321771149 231175 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that answers my question
< 1321771151 892615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: obviously you can't write idk (Clock ~> OutPorts)
< 1321771153 891327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of arr
< 1321771167 905402 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is starting to dislike arr >.>
< 1321771172 250178 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know haskell so dunno
< 1321771174 269137 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just because of this
< 1321771188 196247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: here's some life advice: just skip the interim steps and start disliking arrows
< 1321771192 625044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good way to do this is to try and use arrows
< 1321771200 351965 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but essentially it has something like arrows yeah
< 1321771210 522974 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :york lava?
< 1321771233 575240 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially the code would look something like
< 1321771253 788201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/memos/Memo23.txt, http://hackage.haskell.org/package/york-lava
< 1321771257 114992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first link is more helpful)
< 1321771266 353100 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r[0] <= r[x] {OPERATOR} r[y]
< 1321771269 181254 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r[1] <= r[x] {OPERATOR} r[y]
< 1321771271 263548 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r[2] <= r[x] {OPERATOR} r[y]
< 1321771272 181219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the reduceron is written in it
< 1321771273 608917 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321771277 113734 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r[31] <= r[x] {OPERATOR} r[y]
< 1321771278 189613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: that's not what haskell arrows are :P
< 1321771290 523289 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not haskell arrows :D
< 1321771296 203761 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's VHDL arrows basically
< 1321771314 100732 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r[32] <= memory[r[x]]
< 1321771350 344926 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory[r[x]] <= r[y]
< 1321771373 245197 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But something of type Bit -> Bit -> Bit should be opaque, how can a compiler determine what it is?
< 1321771376 778709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it not really ->/
< 1321771384 373454 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321771402 600310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hint: Bit isn't Bool
< 1321771413 363889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bit =
< 1321771413 686086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Symbol { componentName :: String
< 1321771413 731682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         , numOutputs    :: Int
< 1321771413 731851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         , parameters    :: [Parameter]
< 1321771413 731952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         , inputs        :: [Bit]
< 1321771414 327303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         , instanceRef   :: IORef (Maybe InstanceId)
< 1321771416 549333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         , outputNumber  :: OutputNumber
< 1321771418 458349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         , outputSignal  :: Signal
< 1321771420 373970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :         }
< 1321771449 855962 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, hmm. So <&> takes a bit that knows it was made of two bits?
< 1321771453 682776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, makes, not takes
< 1321771454 263087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321771457 660816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321771466 520265 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, cool
< 1321771469 44458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the IORef there is for observable sharing... uses unsafePerformIO, but the Kansas Lava team published a safer, unsafePerformIO-less observable sharing implementation later on, so it's nothing fundamental)
< 1321771479 681975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc the external interface is pure)
< 1321771496 572478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the primitives look like this basically:
< 1321771506 417874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | Inverter.
< 1321771506 485996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inv :: Bit -> Bit
< 1321771506 531398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inv a = makeComponent "inv"
< 1321771506 531572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      {-   Inputs: -} [a]
< 1321771506 531684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      {-  Outputs: -} 1
< 1321771507 303334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      {- Simulate: -} (\[a] -> [map not a])
< 1321771509 438737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      {-   Params: -} []
< 1321771511 244109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :      {- Continue: -} (\[o] -> o)
< 1321771513 287652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | D-type flip-flop, with initialiser (first argument).
< 1321771515 410668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delayBit :: Bit -> Bit -> Bit
< 1321771517 451163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delayBit init a =
< 1321771519 434870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    makeComponent "delay"
< 1321771521 399167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {-   Inputs: -} [init, a]
< 1321771523 375520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {-  Outputs: -} 1
< 1321771525 356329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {- Simulate: -} (\[init, a] -> [head init:a])
< 1321771527 384946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {-   Params: -} ["init" :-> getConst (componentName init)]
< 1321771529 377070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {- Continue: -} (\[o] -> o)
< 1321771531 417304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh.... that is longer than it looked
< 1321771533 307114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for flood
< 1321771571 148898 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't quite grasp the details
< 1321771576 496525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1321771580 536289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should go to sleep
< 1321771597 98757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it just records a bit symbolic description of the logic tree basically
< 1321771603 859672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then writes it out as a million-line VHDL file
< 1321771613 97260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok not a million lines but the reduceron was like ... a ridiculous number of lines)
< 1321771619 992288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they all look like a <= some_primitive(b,c) :P)
< 1321771626 240017 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION could make something similar for AW stuff!
< 1321771630 273513 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:)
< 1321771633 415470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :die die die
< 1321771640 217168 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah anyways, the idea is that you'd write the tight loops in assembly for the "very fast execution" unit and the rest in C++ to run on the RISC part
< 1321771681 605356 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like a SIMD coprocessor :D
< 1321771692 480158 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real hardware bores me
< 1321771696 684972 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would get potentially more operations per cycle than the SIMD
< 1321771699 633812 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me virtual worlds any day
< 1321771701 464353 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: oh?
< 1321771723 245996 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you into, networks or what? :D
< 1321771751 632826 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think Second Life, things like that
< 1321771765 948652 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried SL
< 1321771772 877485 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard it was for RP mostly
< 1321771783 664623 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really roleplay
< 1321771866 682230 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I heard about it mostly from furries so that would explain heh
< 1321771887 245319 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably the most *lasting* class of use for it.
< 1321771921 403814 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, well, you've got rather stupid "ZOMG ALTERNATE CURRENCY" morons, and people there for the novelty.
< 1321771928 543149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can imagine, that doesn't last long.
< 1321771936 953750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, I suppose by now it mostly is for RP.
< 1321771941 22557 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's just a pyramid/zero sum game
< 1321771957 549239 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is mostly there for scripting and talking
< 1321771966 512488 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas for RP their other alternatives are basically IRC and other chat programs
< 1321771982 776505 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made a negligible, but non-zero, amount of money in SL
< 1321771992 872776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still has yet to convert it to RL currency though
< 1321772014 886138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 3 cents
< 1321772015 41877 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't in it for the money though
< 1321772024 772626 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like $200
< 1321772027 727046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo what's the capital of second life called
< 1321772061 544988 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capital, as in currency? Lindens, or Linden
< 1321772065 69397 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Linden dollars
< 1321772067 194604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no as in
< 1321772068 4602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital
< 1321772075 428069 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried a MUCK once, was kinda depressing
< 1321772087 213067 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not entirely sure that that's meaningful
< 1321772094 152704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame
< 1321772096 950733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the place where you enter
< 1321772104 882188 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: you can also RP in MMORPGs!
< 1321772109 937044 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are several, randomly chosen
< 1321772113 703096 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It changes
< 1321772114 130359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGH
< 1321772117 40478 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially an IRC chat channel, plus the rest of the world was some kind of dead scripted thing
< 1321772121 724335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give up on making this cheap occupy wherever that is joke
< 1321772130 353898 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupy Grid?
< 1321772136 226541 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not playing those, ever :D
< 1321772137 251128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that. wow that sounds so fucking stupid.
< 1321772140 649804 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321772143 62111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i'm envisioning it as a wireframe
< 1321772144 690691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its the 90s and
< 1321772144 828929 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: who would
< 1321772150 105856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god what im thinking of is cybertown Sgeo and i hate you
< 1321772151 265955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hate the 90s
< 1321772154 897243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 90s should be obliterated
< 1321772162 647499 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the grid represents the whole SL ... universe
< 1321772167 543693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE A UNIVER
< 1321772168 101790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASE
< 1321772172 243681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :univer-ASS!!!!!!
< 1321772175 190386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cry
< 1321772183 239072 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I dislike music from about 1995 to 2010 :D
< 1321772183 695152 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right because you never got to see them because you're 12
< 1321772187 311856 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Cybertown is not a part of Second Life
< 1321772189 33837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm 9
< 1321772190 740934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a half
< 1321772195 916099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i age backwards
< 1321772196 80370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cybertown does have a City Hall
< 1321772203 386024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: what happened in 2010
< 1321772213 784312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YOU'RE A PART OF SECOND LIFE.
< 1321772236 995338 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I haven't heard too much of the 2010's music yet so I'm not judging :D
< 1321772256 962850 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I've heard so far I don't like too much
< 1321772261 159427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321772263 737338 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I am judging, ha
< 1321772274 460489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if madbr is actually listening to a representative sample of all music released in 2010.
< 1321772281 155933 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :course not
< 1321772285 873001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring.
< 1321772298 924423 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're lucky, he's listening to a representative sample of all music that hit top 40 radio in 2010.
< 1321772306 527927 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if he did *that*, then of course he wouldn't like it.
< 1321772307 255520 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321772327 55657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: the charts do, and basically have always, sucked.
< 1321772330 817577 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyways, AW does have a specific entry point, AWGate, and a specific huge world that a lot of people used to build in, AW (Alphaworld)
< 1321772338 190498 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Occupy AWGate?
< 1321772343 477380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, but nobody has ever made money from activeworlds
< 1321772345 967553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or enjoyment
< 1321772347 273070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or happiness
< 1321772352 596884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all they have made is their soul a little more dead on the inside
< 1321772370 497098 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be huge protests in AW
< 1321772375 831775 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to price increases
< 1321772376 161134 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well have activeworlders ever made money off the real world?
< 1321772382 926538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it just separates better.
< 1321772385 840331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: like i said
< 1321772386 662661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead inside
< 1321772395 817510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol have you tried being dead inside its so great
< 1321772399 799070 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh money in virtual worlds
< 1321772404 128951 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a zero sum game
< 1321772425 943378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's money in Cybertown
< 1321772433 224350 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has no relation to RL money whatsoever
< 1321772440 430107 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's great for a while
< 1321772517 750721 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah anyways, in a normal processor, you'd go:
< 1321772541 436315 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :load r0, [r1]
< 1321772543 887952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know opengl shit
< 1321772553 404296 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some
< 1321772557 165385 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r0, #16
< 1321772568 669479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: programmable pipeline?
< 1321772576 48824 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :str r0, [r1]
< 1321772580 462719 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r1, #4
< 1321772595 803134 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not anything about shaders or stuff no unfortunately
< 1321772603 710832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's what i'm interested in :p
< 1321772614 146323 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you drawing?
< 1321772660 499815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons of stuff, theoretically :P I'm more interested in the high-level details of the pipeline, because I'm playing about with a certain library I want to write...
< 1321772714 8583 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the slice processor (the kind of processor I've been talking about), you'd have:
< 1321772730 412322 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know pretty much everything about opengl
< 1321772738 4438 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means open graphics library
< 1321772741 630405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: thx
< 1321772766 642443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i had to check that just because i doubt you so much
< 1321772780 814625 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.
< 1321772791 720899 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i did just pull that from my rectum
< 1321772796 158042 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe that was a good idea
< 1321772808 749568 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg
< 1321772814 403900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :farewell oklopol
< 1321772820 567472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember not to die...
< 1321772824 416367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uu
< 1321773253 974564 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r0 <= r0 + 4
< 1321773254 19917 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r1 <= r1 + 4    [start at cycle 2]
< 1321773254 20125 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r2 <= r2
< 1321773254 20228 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r3 <= r32 + r2
< 1321773254 20388 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r32 <= mem[r0]
< 1321773254 844279 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem[r1] <= r3   [start at cycle 2]
< 1321773275 514148 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all of these operations happen together, on each cycle)
< 1321773355 875636 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially this takes a buffer of 32bit numbers and increments each one by the value in r2
< 1321773375 643286 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :r0 and r1 are initialized to the data start address
< 1321773406 558575 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a loop count register
< 1321773481 624169 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321773623 231814 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, thanks to out of order execution, you can get more or less that type of execution on a pentiumII and later family processor
< 1321773669 400490 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you get up to 3 ALU operations and afaik 1 load 1 store and some other operations, plus FPU or SSE operations, on any given cycle :D
< 1321773957 953137 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321774235 126591 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321774242 811319 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit
< 1321774292 250492 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, that's it for the data flow oriented language
< 1321774347 201831 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being to come up with something that should be simple enough to implement in VHDL or something but allow for fast processing :D
< 1321774362 836167 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, did I say language
< 1321774363 376552 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321774367 75166 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean processor
< 1321774741 730261 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321776081 423717 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321776106 334187 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321776508 172901 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321776660 568037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ andrew12 ? welcome
< 1321776667 316284 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321776674 932971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the best at precision welcome attacks.
< 1321776693 314925 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.
< 1321776700 649617 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never got a warm welcome like that.
< 1321776720 516318 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was half expecting this room to be very dead
< 1321776734 568834 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one spoke in here for months until you came in.
< 1321776746 240482 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that
< 1321776749 184758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: It's pretty active :P
< 1321776753 476056 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why we're so excited.
< 1321776761 844199 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's active but the topic is never esoteric languages.
< 1321776773 612813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks our recent log sizes... yeah, still always 100-200 kilobytes per day
< 1321776791 961023 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend too much time at IRC.
< 1321776798 550478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At IRC?
< 1321776811 220384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 67
< 1321776812 83985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  'C'
< 1321776871 274928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Mind you, we're not on-topic all that often.
< 1321776884 788045 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a problem :p
< 1321776884 948350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the world of esolangs isn't exactly the fastest-moving beast.
< 1321776889 809810 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321776895 10177 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except me, i'm always on topic
< 1321776911 760647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [^]]
< 1321776928 711688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: Stop being so slow.
< 1321776937 952067 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-06-13.txt:00:46:23:  also who it a tome, a small one
< 1321776947 717123 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321776955 989169 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Stop being so slow.
< 1321776956 320368 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but it is your journey i am just not old enoug)( to )(ave t)(ose are your black leanings, much as the moon takes liberty. reason. justice. civility. edification. perfection.
< 1321776961 679780 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [^]]
< 1321776966 619931 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the ] ?
< 1321776967 847781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason. Justice. Civility. Edification. Perfection. --fungot
< 1321776968 48423 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really, it is a free card in your sylladex
< 1321776968 979481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321776969 24792 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321776970 143101 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-09-07.txt:15:09:36:  lol
< 1321776972 125569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said that
< 1321776972 432657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1321776972 597849 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1321776974 54293 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [^]]
< 1321776974 769666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say hi to andrew12.
< 1321776975 306535 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mmm... real lambda.... eval don't work?)
< 1321776979 348223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1321776979 393573 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1321776980 6999 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-04-26.txt:21:35:27:  what's the difference between a function and a thing that receives a message?
< 1321776980 917722 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something crazy i'm guessing
< 1321776982 727031 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [^]]
< 1321776988 248423 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-02.txt:06:48:41:  .,admin + elliott
< 1321776989 946653 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many bots
< 1321776991 636786 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is pretty much #botspam
< 1321776992 722926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it's the "someone new joined, let's use the bots forever" thign.
< 1321776994 568621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing.
< 1321777004 669372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Yeah, but only one of them is written in Befunge.
< 1321777005 750417 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, this channel is pretty much #elliottandhisaudience
< 1321777011 172061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321777014 786828 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321777022 488869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run for i in $(seq 5); do echo "and only this one runs arbitrary Linux commands"; done
< 1321777023 788941 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's pretty much #haskell
< 1321777024 410292 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only this one runs arbitrary Linux commands \ and only this one runs arbitrary Linux commands \ and only this one runs arbitrary Linux commands \ and only this one runs arbitrary Linux commands \ and only this one runs arbitrary Linux commands
< 1321777028 617250 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a natural step after hey let's be interesting and realizing we're not
< 1321777040 558458 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's not a Linux command!
< 1321777042 754010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Only this one does esolang stuff?? EgoBot is pretty useless.
< 1321777046 883625 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something crazy i'm guessing
< 1321777047 116060 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​691 +++++++++++++++[>++>++++++++>+++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>>++++.>+++++.--.<<+.<++.>-----.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++.+.<-.<.>----.>+++++.>-------.<<<.>>>-.<<.----------.>+++++.<<.>.>.----.---.<----.>>++++++++++.<<++++++.<.>>+++++++.+.+.>--------.<<-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++..-------------------------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+.++++++++.<---.>.+++++.<----------------------------------.>>>+++.<<-.<.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
< 1321777051 23571 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321777054 141147 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [^]]
< 1321777058 856708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, now we've abused all the bots, we can stop now.
< 1321777060 47323 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-10-05.txt:20:07:04:  hmm, sorry then
< 1321777061 804465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit oklopol.
< 1321777073 86589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that thing obviously garbles the lines
< 1321777079 390512 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the ]?
< 1321777090 838857 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : also who it a tome, a small one
< 1321777094 953423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: huh?
< 1321777095 92512 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i say that
< 1321777101 855765 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's spend the whole day wondering
< 1321777107 588868 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: EgoBot ought to generate optimal programs. Kolomogorovically speaking.
< 1321777109 642495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're giving andrew12 a super good first impression, here.
< 1321777111 777240 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^]]
< 1321777116 400860 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will complain until someone implements it.
< 1321777116 465805 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the second ]?
< 1321777121 700964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: [^]] = [^\]]
< 1321777137 351767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^]] matches any  not preceded by ]
< 1321777141 613662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the  in that line is itself preceded by ]
< 1321777152 529758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you avoid HackEgo's annoying tendency to spit your line back at you as the result
< 1321777158 574898 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see
< 1321777161 722005 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Any  preceded by a character that is not ], rather. :-(
< 1321777167 124593 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misparsed it as somehow trying to find the first instance
< 1321777177 930699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Shhh, this is #esoteric, we don't do that fancyspeak.
< 1321777179 678634 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lern2lookbehind
< 1321777199 247667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION instantly hears the Look Around You theme in his head.
< 1321777207 597213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because I read it as "look around".
< 1321777219 230417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look Behind You would be a significantly more disturbing name for a show.
< 1321777290 323979 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such an amazing show.
< 1321777292 401451 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could you please paste me the context of that tome line so i don't have to do anything
< 1321777319 185774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:46:07:  who me a situation where it's bad if it means the same thing
< 1321777319 287280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:46:11:  *show
< 1321777319 357082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:46:14:  also who it tome
< 1321777319 402505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:46:16:  *to me
< 1321777319 402653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:46:23:  also who it a tome, a small one
< 1321777323 578422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope that clears things up.
< 1321777349 966608 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  also who it a tome, a small one
< 1321777352 15398 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :727)  also who it a tome, a small one
< 1321777367 903159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can feel our QDB improving with each passing moment.
< 1321777380 300157 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwwhat
< 1321777388 185265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321777389 245876 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't tome mean book?
< 1321777389 567247 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1321777415 561870 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, update
< 1321777428 786890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever seen a typoness of that badly.
< 1321777430 398294 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is actually our most sophisticated bot.
< 1321777438 664342 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so badly typoness.
< 1321777445 640679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm written in SNOBOL.
< 1321777461 498282 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He accepts commands that contain "@" in them and say anything negative, and responds with simulated anger.
< 1321777467 147556 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always this one: http://bash.org/?5300
< 1321777471 760127 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot of fun until you get tired of it.
< 1321777479 160564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1321777512 304079 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one mentioned poor lambdabot, speaking of bots that accept @-commands.
< 1321777536 279181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 "I run BASIC commands."
< 1321777537 231275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  10
< 1321777545 802383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It responds with the line number if the command executed correctly.)
< 1321777681 685279 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think a string is a correct BASIC command.
< 1321777688 301697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the comment syntax, duh.
< 1321777691 746862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you ever used Smalltalk?
< 1321777692 789653 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 Blah
< 1321777693 768137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `Blah'
< 1321777702 370795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's BASIC, everything has to be IN CAPITALS.
< 1321777722 211223 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp
< 1321777728 359735 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, funny
< 1321777731 52375 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume everyone is familiar with augustss's various abominations so there's no point in me mentioning them.
< 1321777740 963350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I love those.
< 1321777741 311331 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I've heard of them
< 1321777756 944851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://augustss.blogspot.com/2009/02/more-basic-not-that-anybody-should-care.html
< 1321777775 375882 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION somehow didn't notice that it was lambdabot
< 1321777804 329174 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ExtendedDefaultRules?
< 1321777816 453485 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12, for clarification, lambdabot does not in fact run BASIC
< 1321777867 235899 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1321777868 564392 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No one claimed that it did. We're just talking in an esoteric language which happens to resemble English in syntax.
< 1321777944 787019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's weird how most people don't notice that until we startodifjasj ojrpwer pdsfa kallq fklerg.
< 1321777953 602078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12 oppq ner.
< 1321777995 966205 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1321778017 180326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yse.
< 1321778021 487267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was actually a typo.
< 1321778024 562709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's leave it like that.
< 1321778032 798852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not usually this weird, I swear. Well, that might be a lie.
< 1321778054 733909 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in weirder rooms
< 1321778058 890885 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, :P
< 1321778064 310861 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds that difficult to believe
< 1321778068 298892 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Usually much weirder, eh?
< 1321778082 379314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh please, we're not usually this interesting.
< 1321778089 548246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "interesting" is the right word to use.
< 1321778107 762837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're a boring, stately freenode enterprise that pretends we're wacky because we talk about esolangs.
< 1321778119 40974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you all suck.
< 1321778157 136168 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u mad?
< 1321778162 789915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See?
< 1321778165 545934 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's elliott's favorite expression.
< 1321778180 152844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's elliott's favorite expression." is shachaf's favourite expression.
< 1321778193 165386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is important to keep in mind the difference between someone's favorite expression and their favourite expression.
< 1321778213 499186 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"post-ironic, a.: When one's ironic appreciation of something becomes genuine, usually due to either prolonged exposure or the enjoyment derived from how amusingly terrible it is."
< 1321778224 705751 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellioutt: I agree.
< 1321778259 373033 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i've written a brainfuck interpreter and debugger in ruby.
< 1321778277 279801 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/andrew12/brainfuck
< 1321778297 542309 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Wait, is that, like, a new esolang or something?
< 1321778307 232609 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck? totally
< 1321778328 211401 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make a dialect which is identical in semantics but uses slightly different syntax to express the eight operators.
< 1321778335 709010 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a fan of those.
< 1321778344 720824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's such a novel idea.
< 1321778370 985444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION links andrew12 to https://bitbucket.org/lifthrasiir/esotope-bfc/overview, because that's just what he does whenever the topic of brainfuck implementations comes up.
< 1321778391 156585 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's National Novel Idea Month, man!
< 1321778403 116312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a month?
< 1321778425 914586 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NaNoIdMo!
< 1321778446 106149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer NaNoSuperEgoMo.
< 1321778471 423679 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed that in and then decided that it was too tacky to say. :-(
< 1321778477 926409 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's every month for you, Sir Hubris.
< 1321778486 797941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The solution is to not have standards.
< 1321778489 852943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recommends it.
< 1321778539 280819 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :honor favorite gray
< 1321778554 326256 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, dammit, now I'm rewatching "Look Around You".
< 1321778573 260294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "dammit"'s not the right phrase, as that is wonderful.
< 1321778582 523815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need Ngevd here to provide some youthful enthusiasm to stop us spiralling down the interminable ... spiral ... self-hatred.
< 1321778609 917319 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Ngevd youthful, or just Ngevd's enthusiasm?
< 1321778639 881938 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aluminum
< 1321778644 593745 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a vile word, aluminum.
< 1321778649 862375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call Ngevd old and oh god I just realised what you're doing.
< 1321778657 748180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "honor favorite gray" was just... I don't know, you're weird.
< 1321778705 581929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION honours his favourite Grey.
< 1321778712 773898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Alienigena.jpg
< 1321778713 930406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION honour.
< 1321778717 523031 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why don't you write him a check?
< 1321778753 217157 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe give him a donut and go to the theater together.
< 1321778769 98276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Your first task as a newbie is to distract shachaf.
< 1321778795 150702 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Look, a distraction!
< 1321778799 534067 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has very -- I wouldn't call them *high* standards, exactly, but they're very far off to the side.
< 1321778916 758221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're...
< 1321778923 180215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#########
< 1321778923 225397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    #
< 1321778923 225583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :########
< 1321778923 225692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321778923 225799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#######
< 1321778924 206599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321778925 524840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######
< 1321778927 687458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# #  #
< 1321778929 539834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :###
< 1321778931 681986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321778933 724981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######
< 1321778935 688056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  #
< 1321778937 710024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#####
< 1321778939 563559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :standards?
< 1321778941 760933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's the worst sideways ASCII art lettering anyone's ever done.
< 1321779007 806536 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think what you're looking for is nonstandard standards.
< 1321779023 76857 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about elliott's standards is that there are so many to choose from.
< 1321779038 368683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1321779136 718624 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eso-std is down!
< 1321779173 237318 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is there a pattern to when you capitalize your sentences or don't?
< 1321779177 955943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321779189 829684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ewwww, this Haskell binding forces me to explicitly free these simple memory resources.
< 1321779191 737494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Fix it.
< 1321779205 839180 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, sir, right away, sir.
< 1321779211 98344 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321779259 346414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks.
< 1321779279 176053 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether elliott will now turn on him, like in that one comic.
< 1321779301 538347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a mystery.
< 1321779618 421721 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41b8d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
< 1321780527 198661 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321780527 255236 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321780527 300551 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321780709 286764 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321780750 554632 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321780797 412115 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321783305 435873 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321783310 237866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321783893 689865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot...
< 1321783894 43111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1321784153 3302 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure he wants to know.
< 1321784159 44869 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect elliott, though.
< 1321784166 563694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was lambdabot.
< 1321784169 559885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talking to Phantom_Hoover.
< 1321784171 728578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty creepy.
< 1321784300 734180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And her in a relationship with CakeProphet, too.
< 1321784609 466379 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321784747 224088 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, can anybodey help me? I´m not able to identify one particular code, I need to determine, by which esolang is it written
< 1321784781 610936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1321784784 325187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what purpose :P
< 1321784817 611983 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it´s a kind of cipher O:-)
< 1321784928 330485 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to decrypt it
< 1321784940 941101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin the code?
< 1321784944 115536 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a puzzle from some website?
< 1321784992 640672 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. If you know geocaching.... Frend of mine, made it :-D
< 1321784994 410911 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok w8
< 1321785012 784287 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++v+[->++++++++++<]>+++++++++.+<[-]++++++[->++++++++++<]>+++++.+.>++++
< 1321785012 829804 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->$++++++++<]>.<<----.<+++[->-----<]>.+++++++++++++++++.++.>>.<<<++[->
< 1321785012 830028 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :---$--<]>-.<++[->+++++<]>.>>.<<-----------.++++++++++++..----.>>>++++++
< 1321785012 830142 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++$++[->+++++<]>+++.-----------..<<<<+++++++.------.<++++[->----<]>.>>
< 1321785012 830244 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>- .<<<<<+++++++++++[->++<]>.+++.>>>>.@<<<<<+++++[->-----<]>++.>>>>>+++
< 1321785012 955464 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++ ++++ . [-]
< 1321785013 764 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[  > 55+5*, 99*9+55+2*+ , 87*54*+64*+, 48*:, v
< 1321785014 97252 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  v  ,: ,+2 ,:*2+7**552   ,-*35 ,:**782 #    <
< 1321785014 142503 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  > 2255***5+::, 25*+, 84*, "/z",, 2-, v
< 1321785014 933584 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  v, ++**25*25*251<                    5
< 1321785014 979361 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>$ $552**7+2*,v   |:-1< 3 ,,"/",:**33+6<
< 1321785016 18311 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ >#             #<   ^
< 1321785016 63522 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :   v,+*35,"dd"<
< 1321785017 23613 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :   > "om.",,,"s"1-, 54*3+5*,"a"4+, 55+, ^
< 1321785021 938374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jendas: Pastebin, not Ctrl+V.
< 1321785047 277036 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y, sorry
< 1321785051 248327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1321785051 398031 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1321785075 545654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jendas: Well, the first part is definitely valid brainfuck code.
< 1321785078 928079 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/DyQW1VwC
< 1321785099 773877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the whole thing is.
< 1321785202 823458 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y, i fought that, it seemed to me like that, but the second part?
< 1321785236 921767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, brainfuck ignores all invalid instructions. So it could just be a brainfuck program designed to look like something else.
< 1321785241 565365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried running it?
< 1321785254 688356 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yeat
< 1321785256 23578 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1321785267 32712 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet* sorry, it´s dark in here :-D
< 1321785276 808929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running it is a good way to find out if it's a brainfuck program :P
< 1321785310 233812 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i´ve tried to run it as fish... and something else. ok, i´ll try
< 1321785332 497020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish?
< 1321785341 768178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's a Brainfuck/Befunge polyglot.
< 1321785390 777531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the Befunge contained in a [-][] to shield it from execution as BF.
< 1321785409 155830 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, befunge, this was the second one
< 1321785440 921980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does + do on an empty stack?
< 1321785445 783907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what you're asking, if you know what the languages are already.
< 1321785486 468421 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i´m asking coz i didn´t work :-(
< 1321785504 9832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What didn't?
< 1321785574 280774 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running it as fish or befunge. I didn´t run it as brainfuck, coz it looked like that, but had a lot of extra expressions in it...
< 1321785622 460292 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extra expressions don't stop it from being BF
< 1321785624 233639 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4023e.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321785624 540405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It definitely looks like valid Befunge; try using a different interpreter.
< 1321785635 850527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, this was established about a page ago.
< 1321785691 159626 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it now... you know, it´s confusing for me, it´s my first time in esolang
< 1321785744 741561 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And phantom, would you please recommend me one?
< 1321785776 725381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott will yell at me if I say anything other than 'Shiro', so Shiro.
< 1321785783 907099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiro doesn't even do Befunge-93.
< 1321785795 700796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jendas: http://catseye.tc/gallery/esolangs/yoob/
< 1321785799 631850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we know it's 93?
< 1321785807 461725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the one the creator of the language wrote.
< 1321785934 970146 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott - thanks a lot :-)
< 1321786011 553736 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321786019 802775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321786042 670678 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Popping an empty stack gives 0, so + on an empty stack pushes 0
< 1321786154 168246 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that that polyglot is intended a puzzle of some kind
< 1321786177 19502 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it worked! Thank you so much :-)))
< 1321786218 994140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bf arst.b98
< 1321786219 669528 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st part is http://wqa.wz.c
< 1321786221 635857 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ccbi arst.b98
< 1321786222 178360 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2nd part is z/gc/coords.morse
< 1321786341 143183 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321786420 59737 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321786612 694886 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you guys! :-))
< 1321786826 40161 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321786826 85504 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321786826 85636 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321786843 176318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:54 < Sgeo> Capital, as in currency? Lindens, or Linden
< 1321786845 241048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd
< 1321786863 716226 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: back to 3D
< 1321787244 304624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://mediastream.cern.ch/MediaArchive/Photo/Public/2008/0804060/0804060_04/0804060_04-A4-at-144-dpi.jpg
< 1321787256 971889 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the LHC's entire hydrogen supply.
< 1321787267 11357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321787274 41162 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's amazing.
< 1321787306 462482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I just noticed the "A proton source" sign.
< 1321787331 555984 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nononono it's like "Proton Source A".
< 1321787334 853139 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is no Proton Source B.
< 1321787339 789327 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^/T/
< 1321787343 244675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also there might be some more bottles, but eh.)
< 1321788068 420065 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321789059 249137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321789621 206787 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321789643 712922 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321789643 758196 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321789643 758350 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321789941 588811 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B94E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321789990 418581 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321790081 843611 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321790093 346564 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321790333 245271 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321790428 670732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321790471 149398 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321790488 413480 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321790488 563140 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host
< 1321790488 608439 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321790745 368250 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1321790890 924694 :Jendas!~Jendas@81.91.219.251 PART :#esoteric
< 1321792600 262622 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.qwantz.com/everywordindinosaurcomicsOHGOD.xml
< 1321792604 845500 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Need I say more?
< 1321792613 430570 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll write the script.
< 1321792618 261497 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: PREPARE YOURSELF.
< 1321792629 873656 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, don't open that in Chrome.
< 1321792630 954707 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Firefox.
< 1321792632 31746 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anything.
< 1321792733 591759 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gleh, it: only has the first four years (i.e. less than half the comic).
< 1321792735 406059 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sadden with me.
< 1321792819 784337 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I can just scrape the OhNoRobot archives.
< 1321793785 852732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heello.
< 1321794078 537621 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :names = ['T-Rex', 'T:Rex', 'T-Blech', 'Utahraptor', 'Dromiceiomimus',
< 1321794078 744931 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :         'Dromeciomimus', 'Dromeceiomimus', 'Narrator', 'Ye Olde Narratore',
< 1321794078 807744 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :         'The House', 'House', 'Woman', 'Man', 'Human', 'Off-screen',
< 1321794078 852951 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :         'Off-Camera Person', 'Monocle guy', 'Tyrones', 'God']
< 1321794086 47118 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THESE TRANSCRIPTS ARE OF SUCH HIGH QUALITY
< 1321794103 927055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321794113 93433 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK I give up, Dinosaur Comics literally has too many characters to list.
< 1321794124 364725 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mammuthus Primigenius: Of course not!
< 1321794124 581405 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mammuthus Primigenius: It's clearly implied that it takes place in an alternate universe where dinosaurs can talk!
< 1321794124 626762 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ground Sloth: So just assume it takes place in a world where Batman, make-outs, and talking dinosaurs co-exist.
< 1321794124 627026 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mammuthus Primigenius: I...
< 1321794124 887227 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mammuthus Primigenius: I call it "Earth-Perfect."
< 1321794126 897969 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lady: Ha ha no thank yooou!
< 1321794128 885313 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T ADD ALL THESE
< 1321794563 348910 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky qwantz-scraper]$ wc -l qwantz
< 1321794563 559170 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :25225 qwantz
< 1321794564 536739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessssss.
< 1321794865 430686 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321794870 452895 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb|Hovercraft
< 1321794892 290670 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1321795029 934484 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Taneb|Hovercraft.
< 1321795039 259979 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid the IWC style is about to be usurped by the BEST STYLE YET.
< 1321795048 224221 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely?
< 1321795062 285623 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DINOSAUR COMICS
< 1321795070 667895 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1321795111 462350 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD A SNAPSHOT OF THE FUTURE
< 1321795117 117250 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig frig
< 1321795117 701712 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so noted. i'll drop it.
< 1321795144 689165 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you can't fight fate
< 1321795145 34152 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: program design is still a decent amount of unity and consensus on the format...
< 1321795164 387900 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fungot is scaring me
< 1321795165 9867 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: differences in syntax. for the rest of which seems to be the fashion, you published said brain-log on the world
< 1321795178 131022 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: It does that a lot.
< 1321795240 801282 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost able to pass a Turing test
< 1321795328 921749 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you a bot?
< 1321795329 454667 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: http://www.codu.org/ fnord stuff if you'd like to see the quote, but people keep telling that to it.
< 1321795346 942478 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321795348 43724 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321795348 486025 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321795426 428398 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1321795751 485882 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem with all my esolangs so far has been their minimaliness
< 1321795788 97936 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of them are anywhere near the scale of Befunge or ORK
< 1321795848 62963 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for Uniquode, but that's nowhere near completion
< 1321795966 591652 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Uniquode will be completed around the time when Microsoft PowerPoint has been ported to @
< 1321795979 571575 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: That will be the day I destroy @.
< 1321796000 793 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Anyway trust me you don't want to aim for more bloated designs.
< 1321796049 232939 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My esolang with the most commands I think is Brook
< 1321796058 837018 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that has what? 10?
< 1321796061 818610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally takes a look at Brook.
< 1321796078 569976 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO
< 1321796116 804280 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article is awfully written
< 1321796136 57719 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1321796141 540319 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it c is the append-to-program instruction?
< 1321796150 319441 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so
< 1321796153 855976 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N UglyBF‎; 13:33 . . (+695) . . 92.148.109.67 (Talk) (creation)
< 1321796154 152846 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No dieeeeeee.
< 1321796163 291809 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BRICK
< 1321796170 493517 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assure you all it is completely justified in this case.
< 1321796192 938504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1321796196 174807 :ineiros_!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1321796207 812085 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321796357 120218 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4023e.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
< 1321796447 814140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb|Hovercraft: Anyway trust me you don't want to aim for more bloated designs. <-- stop being a minimalist all the time
< 1321796454 507118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98 is fun
< 1321796482 67797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you're an idiot.
< 1321796501 948724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why do you think so in this case?
< 1321796515 886244 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Between Uniquode and Brook, I'll take Brook. The vast majority of complicated esolangs are crap.
< 1321796555 790620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm
< 1321796556 60142 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of one that is truly interesting; fun, maybe, but even then the esolangs with mounds of orthogonal rubbish piled together rather than being based on a simple interesting concept is the far more common sort of large esolang.
< 1321796556 158736 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because befunge98 is actually a brainfuck derivative
< 1321796593 536875 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brook is based on /two/ interesting concepts!
< 1321796604 942340 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's queue-based and something else
< 1321796608 251157 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brook-like
< 1321796772 863909 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321797284 318932 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321797674 868197 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321797697 495627 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the snakes got him!
< 1321797941 347485 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321798215 909990 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snakes on a Hovercraft.
< 1321798224 512664 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feeds the snakes that have taken over taneb's hovercraft
< 1321798235 715706 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they took over his irc too!)
< 1321798325 275732 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hovercraft for a reason
< 1321798336 499945 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Means I could go at any second
< 1321798383 945977 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont listen to the treacherous snakes! they have acquired human language!
< 1321798436 713922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noooooo
< 1321798652 111387 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- XXX This isn't a great hash function
< 1321798652 295466 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashInteger :: Integer -> Int#
< 1321798652 363006 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashInteger (!_) = 42#
< 1321798669 278904 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not great, no
< 1321798676 610833 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my code :-)
< 1321798679 983519 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually GHC code
< 1321798690 1255 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, integer-simple, so I guess not that many people actually USE it
< 1321798695 909740 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think all ARM users do
< 1321798785 932830 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "(!_)" mean?
< 1321798795 109585 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like hashInteger _ = ...
< 1321798796 146954 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But strict.
< 1321798809 254479 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Int#"?
< 1321798818 735251 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like hashInteger !_ = ... but with extra brackets
< 1321798824 33262 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Unboxed integer
< 1321798833 115028 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low-level stuff
< 1321798864 676426 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low-level as in I should know this, or low-level as in this is how the computer thinks?
< 1321798892 15937 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter
< 1321798898 955483 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won't have to deal with unboxed integers
< 1321798905 480857 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good
< 1321798906 327408 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you do the kind of crazy crap I do :P
< 1321798932 375464 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a broken also awful brainfuck interpreter in Haskell this morning
< 1321798939 30149 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is broken and also awful
< 1321798952 710851 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if it should work
< 1321799464 490459 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got it working
< 1321799471 267980 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a suitable test program?
< 1321799528 161219 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a haskell compiler in brainfuck and see if it produces the same binary
< 1321800055 694745 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a curious error
< 1321800070 786954 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cat program given on the wiki (-1 on EOF)
< 1321800078 276290 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran it with input "Hello!"
< 1321800082 200264 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got "llo!" back
< 1321800087 636296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft, a self-interpreter running HW.
< 1321800101 739856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, a self-interpreter running 99 bottles.
< 1321800372 888202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321800416 459969 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1321800439 720839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321800462 163746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hais523.
< 1321800471 154501 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh no, the uglybf person replied to you
< 1321800474 169172 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared to look
< 1321800482 474546 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not out of sympathy though, that kind of thing is unforgivable
< 1321800497 63124 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't look at the wiki, there is a chance your soul may survive
< 1321800503 573194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: /that/ bad?
< 1321800506 986846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, have you looked yet.
< 1321800518 639857 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least, don't look at the article titled "UglyBF"
< 1321800527 197024 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I suggest we don't clean up or categorise it at all
< 1321800530 525741 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't deserve it
< 1321800532 972631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've noted its existence, it doesn't look like spam
< 1321800534 469418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it
< 1321800538 398147 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK I looked and that's so funny.
< 1321800542 632980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently Phantom_Hoover is making death threads on the talk page
< 1321800547 227543 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :death threads
< 1321800549 241661 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :threads of death
< 1321800560 247206 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's ever been proven that the brickbraining procedure is fatal.
< 1321800722 391721 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoover's conjecture: the brickbraining is not fatal
< 1321800814 627542 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is uglybf?
< 1321800827 284321 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the fatal question.
< 1321800851 301323 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a way to delete pages as a bot?
< 1321800856 919788 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of annoying seeing the masses of spam deletions in recentchanges.
< 1321800878 862188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not without higher perms than I have
< 1321800881 731658 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1321801108 918722 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, it's a crap-looking BF derivative
< 1321801119 741333 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On another note, who wants to see my awful code?
< 1321801121 186697 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/0CCW2UeC
< 1321801146 147467 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh damn, just spotted something very bad
< 1321801191 278511 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Please, hpaste.org or sprunge instead of pastebin.
< 1321801194 493851 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really dislikes pastebin.
< 1321801225 760428 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Hey, did you just reinvent zippers?
< 1321801230 464977 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you already read abotu them.
< 1321801241 245019 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, rule of thumb: don't use an n-tuple if n>2.
< 1321801241 651340 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably re-invented them
< 1321801243 747416 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want a data type.
< 1321801257 694050 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Well, they're the last chapter of LYAH.
< 1321801269 900190 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't smart enough to reinvent zippers.
< 1321801284 609933 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What's a zipper?
< 1321801340 37068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest example is using a "left of current position stack" and "right of current position stack" rather than a single tape
< 1321801348 40358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generalises to more complicated structures
< 1321801365 202577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea's that data near some sort of "current position" is fast to access, and the current position is also fast to move short distances
< 1321801376 294687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321801377 70309 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that
< 1321801399 750944 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: e.g. your (xs,ys,...).
< 1321801405 696684 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your tape navigation structure.
< 1321801412 604184 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seemed obvious
< 1321801431 52358 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Well... congratulations, you're really good at this, then.
< 1321801434 189499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: it is moderately obvious, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a name
< 1321801442 603639 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only date back to 1997.
< 1321801558 562191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: are you sure? I suspect they were being used before that, just without being named
< 1321801572 369013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I independently invented the structure, and I'm sure thousands of other programmers have too
< 1321801592 681640 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know of prior art before Huet's paper. Probably list zippers existed before then but I'd be quite surprised if tree zippers had been used.
< 1321801739 635110 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'd rule it out completely.
< 1321801745 279816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course the tree formulation is much less obvious.
< 1321802764 953719 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321802915 572454 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :        if err == Nothing
< 1321802915 760483 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :            then Right <$> peek event
< 1321802915 805870 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :            else return $ Left . fromJust $ err
< 1321802915 806048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO!!!! BAD LIBRARY! BAD!
< 1321803150 568304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that looks rather special-cased to me
< 1321803159 473955 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?
< 1321803189 670716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the bit of code you pasted
< 1321803201 848131 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Special-cased"?
< 1321803202 92042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't tell without context
< 1321803215 398045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it seems to care about err being a Maybe specifically, and I'm not sure if it should
< 1321803223 906357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... isn't what I'm complaining about.
< 1321803228 166664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1321803232 386049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you complaining about?
< 1321803250 726624 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the use of a comparison and a partial function to replace a perfectly safe and more readable case statement?
< 1321803261 154112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I noticed that too
< 1321803273 303332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was wondering if you could write it without either
< 1321803303 882558 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right thing is obviously a case statement there
< 1321803325 957658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you frame it, you have a base value a, and a destruction step (b -> a)
< 1321803331 341975 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's precisely the definition of Maybe
< 1321803345 294933 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalising beyond that is pointless, it just hides the fact that types have semantics
< 1321803389 853140 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combineOr :: [a] -> a
< 1321803390 98045 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combineOr x = unsafeCoerce $ foldl (\x y -> x .|. unsafeCoerce y) (0 :: CLuint) x
< 1321803392 127056 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmm...
< 1321803401 611890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, I just noticed that the Maybe there is backwards
< 1321803402 977734 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is but I'm removing it
< 1321803408 962272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Nothing = success, non-Nothing = error, rather than vice versa
< 1321803416 378556 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not backwards :)
< 1321803419 588606 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just another use of Maybe
< 1321803422 675489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321803431 462358 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it doesn't matter, combineOr is a trillion times more horrifying
< 1321803439 135365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the sort of person who'd like to give it another name because the semantic is different
< 1321803445 969759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow at that combineOr
< 1321803451 966822 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantics are the same
< 1321803459 230760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it actually /do/? I can't figure it out from the definition
< 1321803460 569258 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe :: b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b
< 1321803471 828864 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other "semantics" you claim Maybe has is projection :P
< 1321803478 788042 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't do much of sense
< 1321803494 538834 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if a is runtime compatible with CLuint then it's just a fold of (.|.) and 0
< 1321803507 234478 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's not, umm... the program segfaults, or just goes wrong in general
< 1321803509 193956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.|.) is bitwise or?
< 1321803511 295239 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321803531 706362 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if people consider it impolite to fix all their awful design and send it in as one gigantic pull request
< 1321803545 40364 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, this is a fork, so the awful design may be the forkee's fault)
< 1321803559 626564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… I suspect that unsafe-coercing something to an unsigned int is just reinterpreting its bit pattern as an int
< 1321803573 641490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically just oring together the bit patterns of all its arguments
< 1321803616 471844 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't like you any more, if you're going to claim a program has semantics based on an implementation accident like that :P
< 1321803621 237465 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, no
< 1321803621 879178 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boxing
< 1321803647 215666 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's oring together the first machine word in the representation of whatever you give it and euurgh\
< 1321803648 516452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell boxes integers?
< 1321803655 490226 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskell is a lazy language
< 1321803658 679497 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do laziness without boxing?
< 1321803685 508591 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thunk is a box containing a pointer to some code that overwrites the thunk with the evaluated value
< 1321803687 472156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible for the laziness to be entirely separate from the representation, I guess
< 1321803694 277223 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1321803711 537568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, all data are either pointer-to-thunk or pointer-to-value
< 1321803715 552916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the actual value itself would be a plain int
< 1321803720 466015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's still boxing, but not at the type level
< 1321803783 594460 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the type level? wtf?
< 1321803791 748287 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said ints have their own special boxing mechanism
< 1321803794 637480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321803804 766428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking of the bit-pattern as the value
< 1321803811 746273 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bit-pattern
< 1321803812 999737 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the pointer?
< 1321803813 162956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can you unsafeCoerce something without evaluating it first?
< 1321803820 691255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: of the thing it points to
< 1321803823 167667 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the value at the pointer? which, everything is multiple bytes, there's a header and everything
< 1321803827 669961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unsafeCoerce is a nop at runtime
< 1321803829 857794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer itself has nothing to do with the type system
< 1321803834 784122 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course you can unsafeCoerce something not yet evaluated
< 1321803839 7069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ouch!
< 1321803846 689116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, that's fine
< 1321803855 167198 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "ouch!"? it already breaks the type system, who gives a fuck about further inconveniences?
< 1321803857 93829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, evaluating an unsafeCoerce evaluates its argument, because it is its argument
< 1321803878 304976 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not necessarily, I don't think
< 1321803883 945125 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a nop that subverts the type system
< 1321803890 634860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could easily break the forcing mechanism
< 1321803895 560893 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it breaks GHC's
< 1321803905 629930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume the forcing mechanism to have nothing to do with types
< 1321803916 661286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you unsafe-coerce something into an Int# or whatever, but that would be even more insane than usual
< 1321803931 322819 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a dangerous assumption, considering what has to be evaluated depends on the type.
< 1321803933 538738 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1321803937 861248 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo = Foo !Int String !Char
< 1321803945 988815 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to force (Foo a b c), you have to force a and c, but not b
< 1321803966 746629 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC just does that by rewriting constructor calls with strict fields to a wrapper function, but it's an obvious example
< 1321804001 527040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm including strict fields as much the same sort of thing as strict types (i.e. unboxed types)
< 1321804013 509642 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no
< 1321804048 750207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both interfere with the usual evaluation order
< 1321804064 679687 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"interfere"?
< 1321804069 777238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, change it
< 1321804070 374897 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict fields have perfectly well-defined, simple semantics
< 1321804081 666359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they're different semantics from "normal" types
< 1321804082 503667 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unboxed types are very different
< 1321804086 278491 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope
< 1321804089 878843 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just save some seqs
< 1321804093 91742 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all in the constructors, simple as that
< 1321804532 840882 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a stupid mistake over and over again
< 1321804736 771653 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft discovers "life".
< 1321804757 87052 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :        err <- wrapError $ raw_clEnqueueNDRangeKernel queue kernel (fromIntegral work_dim) nullPtr global_work_size local_work_size (fromIntegral num_events_in_wait_list) event_wait_list event
< 1321804760 880263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: save me from suffering
< 1321804786 901178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that looks like Haskell as a wrapper around some imperative language
< 1321804791 732427 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/54317
< 1321804808 603949 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: OK, firstly that BFState definition is wrong.
< 1321804811 9454 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a constructor name.
< 1321804822 192618 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will probably be the main problem
< 1321804823 504739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Secondly you really want to separate the [Int] [Int] tape into its own Tape data type.
< 1321804834 251475 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you probably want Word8, not Int (import Data.Word to get it); that's what most BF implementations use.
< 1321804848 284409 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Also, you need parentheses around your applications of (:).
< 1321804849 913270 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now itl ooks like
< 1321804853 239851 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BFState xs 1) : [] a b
< 1321804855 508070 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't make much sense.
< 1321804861 995647 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a:[] is the same as [a], so write that instead.
< 1321804868 88917 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And [(-1)] the same as [-1].)
< 1321804889 647092 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Also, I suggest you initialise the right hand side of the tape (ys) with (repeat 0).
< 1321804897 237819 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Then you never have to handle the [] case, because there'll always be a value.
< 1321804915 230841 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having said all that, your code is really pretty damn good :P
< 1321804918 651699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ouch, infinite list should probably have a different type from finite list
< 1321804924 923365 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: >_<
< 1321804927 723772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the type constructors are different
< 1321804927 769390 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40c79.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321804932 880067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a Cons, but no Nil)
< 1321804938 817245 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not what a type constructor is.
< 1321804958 225156 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will battle inanity with pedanticry.
< 1321804961 501918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? those seem pretty typeconstructory to me
< 1321804983 702554 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want to look up the definition of "type constructor".
< 1321805028 943767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I renamed them
< 1321805035 545580 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1321805037 669282 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321805040 932772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd define a type list as list = Cons list list | Nil
< 1321805059 390823 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would?
< 1321805061 934958 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cuz, that's not a list.
< 1321805065 827450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sorry
< 1321805073 164924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'a list = Cons 'a list | Nil
< 1321805078 703439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinko
< 1321805084 766545 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321805088 602863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* 'a list = Cons 'a ('a list) | Nil
< 1321805161 196792 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the haskell vm implement cyclic lists by thunk or by actually creating a cyclic data structure?
< 1321805180 909289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321805210 985519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is by thunk, to avoid special-casing
< 1321805222 57970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as infinite lists in Haskell (unlike OCaml) don't have to be cyclic
< 1321805229 934684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might optimise them into cyclic lists, I guess
< 1321805248 902776 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Cyclic structures are only really something that makes sense in the presence of mutation.
< 1321805253 933029 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is, however, sharing.
< 1321805256 653392 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, in
< 1321805261 349271 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones = 1 : ones
< 1321805268 977498 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one "ones", not one for each tail.
< 1321805298 81842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think the discussion's about internal representation
< 1321805306 72510 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My answer was about internal representation.
< 1321805326 983595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm thinking of something like an immutable cyclic linked list, as a reasonable way to internally represent an infinite repeating list
< 1321805340 82942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking about internal representations.
< 1321805381 644308 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321805391 82446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: cyclic structures make sense, as an internal representation, even in the absence of mutation
< 1321805405 452379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, they make more sense in the absence of mutation, as you don't have to worry about the compulsory sharing of every element
< 1321805419 954760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas without a cyclic list, it'd be possible for the elements to either share, or to not share0
< 1321805422 762615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/0/)/
< 1321805437 649349 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the absence of mutation, "cyclic structures" is either a weird name for sharing, or something that has limited to no applicability.
< 1321805454 435497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: a cyclic structure is a structure which shares with an element of itself
< 1321805461 95843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's different from the normal form of sharing
< 1321805468 915688 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-246-252.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321805479 497799 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bad definition of either "cyclic structure" or "element", and no it isn't.
< 1321805480 826873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the thing being shared doesn't have a pointer back to itself
< 1321805486 885722 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-246-207.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321805498 214991 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo = 1 : 2 : 3 : foo in drop 10000 foo
< 1321805513 921947 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "foo" that is (1 : 2 : 3 : foo) is shared with the "foo" that is in the tail position of (3 : foo).
< 1321805522 42869 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo = 1 : 2 : 3 : foo in drop 1000 foo
< 1321805531 7329 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hurry up lam- oh, she's not here.
< 1321805536 613589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: right; cyclic structure formation is a special case of sharing
< 1321805554 73883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more common form of sharing is along the lines of this:
< 1321805567 793408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let foo = (let x = 1 in [x,x])
< 1321805593 67228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, it's possible to break the sharing, e.g. to copy-on-write in a mutable language
< 1321805610 139635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the cyclic case, you can't fully break the sharing as the list would become infinitely long
< 1321805615 238144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in memory
< 1321805674 486821 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not possible to break the sharing without constructing a new list, and constructing a list can hardly change the semantics of an existing one.
< 1321805700 977361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what? you can break sharing just by copying one of the things being shared, then moving the pointer to point to the copy
< 1321805775 766924 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only goes one level. { let ones = 1 : ones } requires infinity. I'm sure there are ones in-between.
< 1321805796 635145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, my point is, normally with sharing, breaking one level of sharing is enough, or at least a finite number
< 1321805806 946868 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not:
< 1321805808 734950 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones = 1 : ones
< 1321805810 788803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a cyclic list, you can break sharing as many times as you want, but there'll still be sharing involved
< 1321805826 808572 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sharing. It's not any less, or a different kind, or an unusual kind of sharing.
< 1321805831 930981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm arguing that ones = 1 : ones /is not the usual case of sharing, and it makes sense to have a different name for it/
< 1321805843 672701 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're wrong.
< 1321805865 310631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321805865 800651 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (\fac n -> if n == 0 then 1 else fac (n-1))
< 1321805870 734249 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another case of sharing you can't break finitely!
< 1321805872 8729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm saying "A is different from B"; you're saying "no they aren't"; I'm saying "yes they are because I can do X with A and I can't with B"; and you're saying "saying you can do X with A is wrong because you can't do X with B and A is the same as B"
< 1321805875 606454 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you use it for every recursive definition!
< 1321805883 586598 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So unusual.
< 1321805895 659929 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not saying that at all, but whatever.
< 1321805897 358599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even a structure at all, in most languages
< 1321805921 884652 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb|Hovercraft
< 1321805936 155566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, in ICA there's no sharing involved at all there
< 1321805954 237002 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions are structures.
< 1321806001 105842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't have accessible type constructors
< 1321806018 686418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say case function of If -> …
< 1321806033 589228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in general, forcing a function to have a particular concrete representation would be wrong anyway
< 1321806051 969711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fundamental difference of a function and a structure is that the structure can't be rearranged without changing its semantics
< 1321806068 456316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that implies that there are probably things in-between, like self-balancing trees
< 1321806074 177390 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculous. Sharing is obviously an implementation detail.
< 1321806102 416488 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I made the changes you suggested
< 1321806106 820079 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for word8
< 1321806107 514350 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Yay.
< 1321806108 659901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language with immutable data, I agree with that
< 1321806111 349616 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Word8
< 1321806116 70111 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/54321
< 1321806117 368011 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Whaddya mean you don't like it?
< 1321806122 801254 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That causes actual incompatibility with BF programs.
< 1321806141 593213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sharing is definitely not an implementation detail when you're talking about something which is mutable, though (including retroactively)
< 1321806142 35848 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to change it to a char!
< 1321806149 130134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: You totally didn't do another one of my changes, too. :'(
< 1321806156 508309 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1321806174 709613 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321806196 28368 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: I'll annotate your paste with some small tweaks.
< 1321806223 401921 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: You have your left and right lists the wrong way around. :p
< 1321806240 706126 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY ARE THE PERFECT WAY ROUND
< 1321806260 309396 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Fraid not!
< 1321806269 388460 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, what.
< 1321806275 923105 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're the right way around, your left and right functions are just wrong.
< 1321806300 873338 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT
< 1321806306 227662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your tape's infinite both ways, it's impossible to observe < and > being switched in BF
< 1321806325 147680 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they are switched half-way through execution
< 1321806326 598550 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: They're not; you access with ys=right but move with xs=right.
< 1321806357 425721 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I access?
< 1321806382 287729 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-41.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321806406 369311 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just spotted a stupid error
< 1321806412 768200 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 32
< 1321806465 547814 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Also, you don't actually process input.
< 1321806490 265992 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-160.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321806494 248163 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEYOOO
< 1321806497 393825 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got the rest of the comparisons in.
< 1321806544 46587 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah, so I don't
< 1321806592 47817 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Here's an improvement: http://hpaste.org/54323
< 1321806613 698120 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: I switched to Word8, added a separate Tape type, implified input handling by terminating input with (repeat 0), and make it actually handle input :-)
< 1321806617 696653 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus a few minor cleanups.
< 1321806676 900196 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getLoop can be made nicer, I think getBF too, and loop should really have the arguments the other way around, but this is still pretty close to what I'd write *shrugs*
< 1321806751 154977 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your introduction of the Tape type...
< 1321806792 12789 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you haven't adjusted the rest of the program to cope
< 1321806806 408914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1321806809 291581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, the pointer always being off by one is also not a detectable error
< 1321806812 716738 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Fixing :P
< 1321806896 946089 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: http://hpaste.org/54325
< 1321806903 411935 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fiddle with this a little more and then I'll be done.
< 1321806911 24873 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1321806915 467388 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still got loop and the main pattern-match wrong.
< 1321806919 470336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's obvious what it should be. :p
< 1321807114 813134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: BTW: Never use tab characters in Haskell source.
< 1321807144 304529 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note taken
< 1321807144 714619 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: I'm bored twiddling, so here's a final version: http://hpaste.org/54326
< 1321807225 585931 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a pretty big problem
< 1321807237 608924 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short version: the program doesn't work
< 1321807312 441188 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long version: you've rewritten left, right, and plus to use Tape, but only half-done minus, and not changed getBF to accomodate
< 1321807336 238535 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oop, right, that's easy to fix
< 1321807342 270955 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a pretty big problem, one definition can fix that
< 1321807387 793568 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: http://hpaste.org/54327
< 1321807391 895981 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of higher-order functions!
< 1321807402 530326 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, that withTape should be below minus.
< 1321807688 124583 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly, you need to retype the minus
< 1321807710 952545 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's /still/ BFState -> BFState
< 1321807930 477289 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah whoops :P
< 1321808050 444516 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: My attempt to use your void(*)(void) trick fails nearly everywhere for various reasons :P
< 1321808065 427535 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Works on x86 though!
< 1321808070 715458 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nice!
< 1321808092 443063 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm thinkin' I'll just live with a stupid function call in there.
< 1321808266 562952 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Secondly???
< 1321808329 45931 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working secondly
< 1321808493 577705 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, it doesn't seem to work
< 1321808508 514748 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo '1 p' | qemu-sparc32plus ./jitchards
< 1321808508 621227 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00
< 1321808508 714215 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault
< 1321808513 534930 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: That's because either I or you made a mistake.
< 1321808514 731716 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the closest SPARC has ever been to working.
< 1321808623 330309 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321808625 569296 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREPARE FOR PRESENTABILITY
< 1321808646 23702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321808685 688195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321808713 101529 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presentability is for losers.
< 1321808729 240205 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to mention this place in #haskell again :P
< 1321808769 602896 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | #esoteric: A place that hates Haskell slightly more than C++ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321808778 918675 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321808784 308723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a Gregor can learn these topic changing techniques.
< 1321808790 277671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321808809 587368 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B94E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321808835 73004 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is #haskell going to invade us or what?
< 1321808840 94920 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321808842 89739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will all die.
< 1321808850 91048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Gonna expand on "doesn't work"? :P
< 1321808853 858207 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah
< 1321808859 796424 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about as much as you
< 1321808872 748343 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: You know slightly more: the error GHC spits out
< 1321808876 86282 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!brainfuck ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
< 1321808883 442122 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's the thing
< 1321808888 136610 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is fine with it
< 1321808891 998548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321808895 914012 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the implementation is just buggy somehow.
< 1321808900 168706 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
< 1321808902 215612 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World!
< 1321808915 258984 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: So what exactly happens?
< 1321808918 507961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am suspicious of your loop parsing, because it's ugly and slow enough that I just ignored it.
< 1321808919 567430 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That program in our interpreter outputs:
< 1321808920 319872 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321808920 466897 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1321808945 101765 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy.
< 1321808971 692320 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1321809018 249646 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything wrong with the bits I've looked at, i.e. everything but the loop parsing :-)
< 1321809047 735227 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have very handily looked at those exact bits and found nothing wrong
< 1321809061 654884 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I wrote the loop parsing in a maddened daze
< 1321809069 132117 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't want anything to do with it
< 1321809080 247246 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Test it in the REPL.
< 1321809087 816689 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getLoop "abc[def]quux]blah"
< 1321809114 406152 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha!
< 1321809147 357670 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine
< 1321809152 584981 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does everything else
< 1321809153 11639 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What return?
< 1321809154 730721 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEPT FOR
< 1321809159 891857 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("abc[def]quux","blah")?
< 1321809162 991007 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1321809167 718856 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getBF ('[':xs) = getBF a . loop (getBF b)
< 1321809167 926914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where (a,b) = getLoop xs
< 1321809174 109748 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/getBF a . loop (getBF b)/getBF b . loop (getBF a)/
< 1321809203 330539 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed "where (a,b") to "where (b,a)"
< 1321809215 348297 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works just the same
< 1321809219 645999 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reflects how I think
< 1321809220 890147 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I specified that fix to stop you doing that because that's so ugly :'(
< 1321809259 74835 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it works much better
< 1321809278 96131 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hello world! program outputs !dlrow olleH
< 1321809336 612684 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1321809347 248507 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/putStr/putStr . reverse/
< 1321809353 456508 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god
< 1321809375 22575 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just noticed that currently on TV is a BBC programme dealing with offended people's letters.
< 1321809388 380933 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1321809400 288301 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, I watched a bit of that once
< 1321809435 95542 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, elliott_, EOF isn't handled
< 1321809447 812947 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft: Yes, it is.
< 1321809455 862863 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1321809460 496917 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't because I introduced a regression.
< 1321809464 503119 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WATCH AS I FIX THAT REGRESSION
< 1321809471 570238 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T
< 1321809482 559050 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE BEYOND THE TOWN
< 1321809497 635538 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I DON'T THINK YOU ARE STREAMING IT
< 1321809507 439473 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO INSTEAD I ANXIOUSLY AWAIT THE RESULT
< 1321809516 700198 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/54331
< 1321809524 63188 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft, how can it be this hard to find the Hird family.
< 1321809686 285571 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, if I find him then he will know who I am!!!
< 1321809708 78424 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He already knows that you fool!
< 1321809712 787459 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1321809740 253573 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I find him, he will know I'm looking for him!
< 1321809762 172909 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little does Taneb|Hovercraft know, but I actually live in Hexham, Australia.
< 1321809772 606551 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, which Hexham, Australia
< 1321809776 382501 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both.
< 1321809779 728743 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1321810277 705596 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321810391 393814 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321811365 389971 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321811433 636736 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B94E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321811484 612842 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb|Hovercraft
< 1321811921 883672 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321811931 226968 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-15.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321812029 711961 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321812090 719261 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321812105 578261 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321812105 623550 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321812105 623689 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321812322 675771 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321812645 697774 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321812877 485198 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321812939 495413 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321813061 768652 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -c jitdc.c
< 1321813061 900108 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2734 jitdc.c
< 1321813062 510823 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr
< 1321813385 698591 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop that right now
< 1321813444 143783 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Stop your face!
< 1321813448 344392 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what's the limit?
< 1321813469 489736 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: 2048 non-whitespace and something about not counting {;} in some cases
< 1321813484 44691 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :{;} aren't counted if immediately followed by whitespace.
< 1321813495 354780 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, or EOF.
< 1321813675 721307 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang it, by that count I'm still at 2196
< 1321813695 425312 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to shave off 148 bytes >_>
< 1321813819 255429 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put in 148 ASCII delete characters at the end.
< 1321813825 620880 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssssssssss
< 1321814176 521867 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321814476 460924 :kmc!~keegan@cpe-74-68-127-232.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321814707 477516 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my face is unstoppable.
< 1321814748 709132 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321814833 845030 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Have I scared you with combineOr yet?
< 1321814859 837755 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe so.
< 1321814864 655107 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combineOr :: [a] -> a
< 1321814865 659061 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combineOr x = unsafeCoerce $ foldl (\x y -> x .|. unsafeCoerce y) (0 :: CLuint) x
< 1321814871 143289 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seen in actual, real, live code.
< 1321814881 749100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2133 ...
< 1321814897 750705 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its single use site ended up being equivalent to: foldl (.|.) 0 [ foo | NewtypeCons foo <- xs ].
< 1321814922 603180 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What real, live code?
< 1321814927 915733 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ actual
< 1321814945 13710 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321814978 527301 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OpenCLWrappers, almost certainly inherited from OpenCLRaw
< 1321815074 598942 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321815220 177087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ex his Iason quos arbitratus est ad omnia pericula subeunda paratissimos esse, eos ad numerum quinquaginta delegit et socios sibi adiunxit;"
< 1321815394 905793 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321815821 654818 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peekManyInfo :: Storable a => ([a] -> b) -> ForeignPtr () -> CLsizei -> IO b
< 1321815821 939006 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peekManyInfo f x size = do
< 1321815821 984426 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    c <- return undefined
< 1321815821 984582 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    a <- withForeignPtr x (\y -> (peekArray ( div (fromIntegral size) $ sizeOf c) $ castPtr y))
< 1321815821 984690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    return (c:a)
< 1321815822 634011 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    return $ f a
< 1321815826 905618 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Challenge: Figure out what type "c" has
< 1321815910 986156 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle withForeignPtr
< 1321815911 494557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.ForeignPtr withForeignPtr :: ForeignPtr a -> (Ptr a -> IO b) -> IO b
< 1321815913 890277 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle peekArray
< 1321815914 259058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Marshal.Array peekArray :: Storable a => Int -> Ptr a -> IO [a]
< 1321815914 380085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Marshal.Array peekArray0 :: (Storable a, Eq a) => a -> Ptr a -> IO [a]
< 1321815926 203414 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Aha.
< 1321815939 570840 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hope it hurt.
< 1321815941 32911 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You know, that doesn't really scare me. I've come to expect that sort of thing from you.
< 1321815945 685563 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I DIDN'T WRITE THAT
< 1321815947 209086 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is desensitized.
< 1321815948 589055 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE ELSE WROTE THAT ENTIRELY
< 1321815950 847415 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT BOGGLES MY MIND
< 1321815951 664198 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321815960 119572 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What code?
< 1321815975 374402 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCLWrappers, but it almost certainly is inherited from its parent project OpenCLRaw which it's forked from.
< 1321815976 906071 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have excised it.
< 1321815978 435708 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Storable a => a ?
< 1321815989 557590 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nah, it's the specific "a" in the type signature
< 1321815994 742088 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That's what I meant
< 1321816001 859189 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (That second-last "return" forces the type)
< 1321816005 372660 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Did you ever see those few instance snippets in Pugs?
< 1321816008 622433 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It does, yep
< 1321816008 996193 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can determine the type of a by the application to f)
< 1321816016 526583 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm scared. Go on.
< 1321816017 15869 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed
< 1321816053 753615 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: https://github.com/perl6/Pugs.hs/blob/master/Pugs/src/Pugs/Types.hs
< 1321816065 622395 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It's the section that starts with "instance Ord".
< 1321816085 968560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Very nice.
< 1321816088 231555 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very... safe.
< 1321816095 125156 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's showAddressOf defined? Do I dare ask?
< 1321816112 159600 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be more worried about addressOf than showAddressOf if I were you.
< 1321816132 238904 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/perl6/Pugs.hs/blob/master/pugs-compat/src/Pugs/Compat/Cast.hs
< 1321816141 432436 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidGlobalOffset = ErrorCode (-56)
< 1321816141 604275 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidEventWaitList :: ErrorCode
< 1321816141 700594 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321816141 745980 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidEventWaitList = ErrorCode (-57)
< 1321816141 746168 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidEvent :: ErrorCode
< 1321816142 419570 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321816144 415159 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidEvent = ErrorCode (-58)
< 1321816146 461057 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidOperation :: ErrorCode
< 1321816148 441531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1321816150 426489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidOperation = ErrorCode (-59)
< 1321816152 475642 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clInvalidGLObject :: ErrorCode
< 1321816154 502743 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: shachaf: Look at this exciting new type signature layout style
< 1321816156 428299 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found in the same fucking project
< 1321816189 737758 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad to see that elliott_ is enjoying himself.
< 1321816430 776952 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan speak of the devil: * hackagebot thrist 0.2.1 - Type-threaded list  http://hackage.haskell.org/package/thrist-0.2.1 (GaborGreif)
< 1321816431 696929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321816855 189132 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/jkarlson/OpenCLWrappers/blob/master/LICENSE
< 1321816858 862787 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does this look like BSD3 to you?
< 1321816862 341420 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321816883 828737 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who hosts the esolang wiki, Panu?
< 1321816891 510979 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :panu?
< 1321816894 963815 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue hosts the wiki, why?
< 1321816902 900092 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(contacting him is likely to be fruitless, ask an admin instead)
< 1321816911 834778 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's lame, but I keep thinking there should be a Befunge-93 archive since a lot of stuff (e.g. Nthern's bigbef hacks) keep getting lost
< 1321816925 383817 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Close enough
< 1321816928 990488 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue doesn't run the archive
< 1321816932 101012 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1321816936 281132 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait
< 1321816939 385813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its on esolangs.org so i guess he does
< 1321816950 367758 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: http://esolangs.org/files/befunge/src/
< 1321816960 535663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get someone with commit access to put stuff there.
< 1321816965 10657 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :four files is not exactly a lot
< 1321816976 242526 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written ten times that alone  :-P
< 1321816977 366597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you could get someone with commit access to put stuff there.
< 1321817053 250644 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tired of visiting sites that have broken links
< 1321817065 313262 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they don't call it "esoteric" for nuthin'    :-P
< 1321817094 504495 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny when my own local collection is 10x bigger than anything online  :-P
< 1321817118 671743 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs a scapegoat ... blames Gregor
< 1321817677 70206 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it is true that I scour the internet for Befunge sources and eliminate them.
< 1321818037 785257 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1321818252 569722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup
< 1321818253 813565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b
< 1321818318 621347 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's not Map.lookup
< 1321818321 292357 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.lookup
< 1321818322 219431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module.
< 1321818326 523978 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.Map.lookup
< 1321818327 592728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall k a. (Ord k) => k -> M.Map k a -> Maybe a
< 1321818731 810371 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321818997 318660 :z^ck!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1321819680 866767 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321819969 549338 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321820230 502898 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm crap for coding, but anyone else here interested in upcoming id Tech 4?
< 1321820464 163507 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ not esoteric enough??   ;-)
< 1321820610 973642 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is too godawful.
< 1321820669 376830 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1321820693 349148 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh no
< 1321820700 910225 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The maintainer of this fork added combineOr
< 1321820707 308969 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think I need my own fork...
< 1321820714 670672 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321820714 716083 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321820714 716217 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321820837 4447 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321821199 326544 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think I'mma let my JIT rest for awhile, but in retrospect I think a MIDI player would be insufficiently obfuscated.
< 1321821222 475674 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Obfuscation doesn't actually matter that much in IOCCC most of the time :P
< 1321821228 649749 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly whitespace tricks and golfing.
< 1321821242 96690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it's more "unconventionally (i.e. uselessly) pretty C code contest".
< 1321821252 656423 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, originality seems heavily prized
< 1321821256 244496 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's my perception.
< 1321821261 909991 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Well yeah, I mean as far as code formatting goes.
< 1321821447 841775 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean, a JIT is going to be obtuse no matter how you write it.
< 1321821455 447424 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MIDI player would be pretty clear.
< 1321821659 824787 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321821754 99563 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321821759 433858 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321821759 598569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321821864 775007 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys, my bug reporting strategy works so well.
< 1321821908 170041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: check out some of the more complex winners in the past.
< 1321821910 441372 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just really impeccably nice and do fucktons of work unprompted and in return people bow to my every nee- GOD DAMMIT I'VE BEEN TURNED INTO AN OPEN SOURCE SLAVE BY MY DESPERATION
< 1321821919 653324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like text-based games. I believe there was an OS as well but I doubt it was very complicated.
< 1321821933 630638 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It was more complicated than you might think
< 1321821941 362088 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There's also that graphical flight sim
< 1321821948 733324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1321821955 477619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see I think the purpose of the program is considered as well.
< 1321822013 18433 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the program does something really neat then it's more likely to be considered.
< 1321822081 651377 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but playing a MIDI file isn't all that neat :P
< 1321822103 548634 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I thought you were writing a JIT compiler?
< 1321822222 874629 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:41:  peekManyInfo f x size = do
< 1321822222 941669 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:41:      c <- return undefined
< 1321822222 986947 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:41:      a <- withForeignPtr x (\y -> (peekArray ( div (fromIntegral size) $ sizeOf c) $ castPtr y))
< 1321822225 915476 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:41:      return (c:a)
< 1321822228 510802 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:42:      return $ f a
< 1321822231 61672 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321822240 585867 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Easier with the type signature one line above :P
< 1321822245 605125 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But um excuse me go back up and marvel at combineOr.
< 1321822264 782510 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i'm just thinking of a saner way to write that
< 1321822274 786548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Here you go:
< 1321822279 590024 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peekManyInfo :: forall a b. Storable a => ([a] -> b) -> ForeignPtr () -> CLsizei -> IO b
< 1321822279 768333 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peekManyInfo f x size =
< 1321822279 813648 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    fmap f . withForeignPtr x $ \y ->
< 1321822279 813864 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :        peekArray (fromIntegral size `div` sizeOf (undefined :: a)) $ castPtr y
< 1321822282 785230 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOO
< 1321822287 320385 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-XScopedTypeVariables, job done
< 1321822292 485684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-c-c-combinators
< 1321822295 757661 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* ok
< 1321822304 505202 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pets oerjan, now go look at combineOr
< 1321822386 278975 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears.
< 1321822398 995058 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait I thought you were writing a JIT compiler? // the JIT compiler is more-or-less done, and I'm quite proud of it.
< 1321822403 950480 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And like I said,  But I mean, a JIT is going to be obtuse no matter how you write it.
< 1321822413 169888 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about another submission.
< 1321822420 154406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah but not in a visually appealing way.
< 1321822423 55751 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321822476 868266 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: They don't have to be visually appealing, they have to be obfuscated, although formatting it interesting is surely a plus.
< 1321822483 295245 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hm, it's basically foldl (.|.) 0 :: [CLuint] -> CLuint except with mad coercion?
< 1321822579 913710 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321822593 838327 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep! it was used on a list of newtypes of CLulong
< 1321822634 546908 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i replaced the single usage site with foldl' (.|.) 0 [ foo | NewtypeCons foo <- xs ]
< 1321822717 980127 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is NewtypeCons a synonym for the actual newtype constructor, or something insanely overloaded?
< 1321822728 692948 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: former
< 1321822735 168417 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't overload a constructor :P
< 1321822740 172473 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean like
< 1321822757 492165 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data NewtypeCons a = forall b. (Newtype a b) => NewtypeCons b
< 1321822761 640948 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth ridiculous like that :P
< 1321822764 807712 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321822776 929079 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321822781 829368 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess that wouldn't actually work in that context
< 1321822811 234416 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the b escapes in an illegal way
< 1321822829 394493 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is not necessarily the same for all xs elements
< 1321822830 935136 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1321822853 838671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321823093 275950 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:44:43:  because it's a nop that subverts the type system
< 1321823093 390020 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:44:50:  which could easily break the forcing mechanism
< 1321823108 752883 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a nop do anything?
< 1321823111 963620 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i was trying to check with my seq experiment yesterday, i couldn't get it to break
< 1321823120 511951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's a nop after compilation
< 1321823121 645673 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's not the nop, it's what it allows you to do
< 1321823136 72460 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you treat a banana as an orange by just doing nothing and pretending, it's still gonna blow up when you uh
< 1321823138 799565 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :press the button that uh
< 1321823142 383046 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does good things to oranges
< 1321823144 814438 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but makes bananas blow up
< 1321823147 760909 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is
< 1321823148 922075 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a real button ok
< 1321823178 420860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :predictions for future Android versions: root beer float, pumpkin pie, vanilla milkshake, jelly, mint chocolate cookies
< 1321823193 988572 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :android sugar
< 1321823213 12355 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess iPhone has dibs on the apple pie
< 1321823248 8200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure they'll use jelly for the next version
< 1321823256 9113 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u jelly?
< 1321823257 327001 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I don't know of many desserts or sugary things that start with j.
< 1321823266 588253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that.
< 1321823288 432160 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : u jelly?
< 1321823291 620608 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they ever make you op :'(
< 1321823314 7933 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, who _did_ make you an op
< 1321823314 722465 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that i could MERCILESSLY TORTURE YOU, of course
< 1321823336 834680 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I purchased any 37-inch LG 37LV5300 combined with picture had been excellent though the audio system ended up awful, there were a few action cloud (community . has also been 120hz) along with anytime the particular display had been supposed to be absolutely dark you could possibly see the LED bleeding via about the edges.
< 1321823339 624257 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, i think
< 1321823361 312706 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there were any other active ops at the time
< 1321823379 764625 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is very hard for me to envision fizzie doing an opthing of his own accord :P
< 1321823388 456414 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not as hard as it is for me to imagine you doing that >:)
< 1321823407 412423 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the primest candidate for ophood.
< 1321823451 946813 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well after that antioptbot disaster i am somewhat leery of using ops for silly stuff
< 1321823463 989137 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more than before
< 1321823488 685146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would op over my subjects with the kindness and wiseful tact of the philosopher kings of ancient times.
< 1321823500 974593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because op = king obviously
< 1321823504 345656 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like the ops before you were andreou, fizzie, lament and Aardappel. so the founder, fizzie, someone who has never heard of this channel, and a potato.
< 1321823513 379290 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ops
< 1321823520 772767 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :antiopbot disaster?
< 1321823532 233459 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone made a bot to insult the ops
< 1321823534 844720 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus anti op bot
< 1321823540 291416 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then oerjan killed a baby
< 1321823550 2530 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the disaster of misspelling
< 1321823574 277376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let it be known that if elliott is ever considered for ophood then there is ONE VETO VOTE against him.
< 1321823574 945405 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aardappel is most likely Wouter van Oortmerssen (sp?), the FALSE dude
< 1321823577 403303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is totally a thing.
< 1321823593 367639 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's Mr. Potato Head
< 1321823596 369893 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i didn't, it was already dead when i ate it
< 1321823621 454440 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: that much is obvious :P
< 1321823638 870229 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you called him a potato ("them's fightin' wurds!")
< 1321823640 409512 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would rather wouter were known for his more interesting languages :(
< 1321823647 520169 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as?
< 1321823647 981284 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: aardappel means potato.
< 1321823653 175091 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so I've read
< 1321823655 673846 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B94E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321823656 897676 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though I don't speak Dutch)
< 1321823663 845554 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: such as Aardappel, for one :P http://strlen.com/aardappel-language
< 1321823676 670855 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems almost more proud of E than FALSE
< 1321823686 648771 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's funny about fighting words?
< 1321823691 22419 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a thing in US law.
< 1321823750 816764 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :US law is the biggest kludge ever
< 1321823758 830073 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1321823768 179723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know of any laws that aren't kludges
< 1321823774 909552 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds of how it's illegal in norway to insult a police officer, but _what_ you can say varies by region
< 1321823783 38499 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thermodynamics?
< 1321823784 858521 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but how it even pretends to make any coherent sense is beyond me
< 1321823804 867201 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gather that's why we have lawyers.
< 1321823807 662663 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some places have a customarily more ... colorful ... way of speaking than others
< 1321823816 247670 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reminds me
< 1321823824 902035 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so how many gigolos did your mom have to bribe to get you that badge?"
< 1321823869 313619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if a your mom joke constitutes as fighting words.
< 1321823886 438961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your MOM constitutes fighting words.
< 1321823915 308609 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incitement is a related doctrine, allowing the government to prohibit advocacy of unlawful actions if the advocacy is both intended to and likely to cause immediate breach of the peace. The exception is defined in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), where the Court reversed the conviction of a Ku Klux Klan leader accused of advocating violence against racial minorities and the national government.
< 1321823921 222170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooooool
< 1321823954 743279 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :advocating unlawful actions that breach the peace is bad, unless it's racist (???)
< 1321823958 621367 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"please kill a nigger.  but wait until tomorrow."
< 1321823960 475497 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so, how much does everybody *really* love Raymond?" (blank stare)
< 1321823991 643483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't be racist
< 1321824011 957767 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok, you can kill a dyke or chink instead, if you want
< 1321824020 206227 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shouldn't kill niggers just because they're black just like you shouldn't hit a white guy just because they hit you first.
< 1321824038 952815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: meanwhile Julian Assange is most likely condemned to the death penalty if he ever steps foot on US soil, despite having not broken any laws.
< 1321824059 423677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY WILL FIND SOME VAGUE THING HE VIOLATED.
< 1321824089 659735 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, i don't want to touch that subject.
< 1321824110 991565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh
< 1321824124 529507 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :subject-rape
< 1321824125 369308 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know people in US have this thing called religion
< 1321824139 527761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: huh, weird.
< 1321824140 448368 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that really weird
< 1321824153 341186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's freedom of it too
< 1321824171 229825 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :within some reason that doesn't really seem to universal.
< 1321824172 25521 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weird anti-religion weirdos who sue just to get a water tower to lose its cross
< 1321824183 703699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example the native american church can smoke peyote as part of its rituals
< 1321824200 634146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Joe Asshole Peyote Cult with 150 members probably can't
< 1321824245 351341 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :joe asshole peyote cult is the best
< 1321824282 732397 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but seriously in the US you can apparently tell your friends you believe in god and no one will think that's weird
< 1321824292 535668 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly I'm pretty sure rastafarians would still get arrested for smoking weed
< 1321824298 585435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite it being part of their religious practice.
< 1321824314 546963 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the U.S., you can dress up as a vampire and nobody will think it's weird
< 1321824330 387969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure most people will think it's weird
< 1321824347 759447 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than default
< 1321824365 888840 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321824366 46532 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, I'm pretty sure that Native Americans could not have their peyote-smoking rituals out of reservations, which are in principle autonomous.
< 1321824371 359542 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also several "marijuana churches" that are essentially trying to manipulate that bit of freedom of religion to allow them to smoke cannabis legally, but of course they've met less success than rastafarians.
< 1321824413 789079 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like Wile E. Coyote-smokin' rituals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824414 35726 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824414 811893 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824419 367638 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824420 777024 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824423 873713 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824424 961383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what?
< 1321824426 877525 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1321824428 999327 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1321824429 864144 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric : !!!!!!!
< 1321824431 71504 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko
< 1321824431 665283 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1321824436 574920 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1321824439 742161 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko
< 1321824445 385087 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko
< 1321824450 946775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1321824453 563281 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko
< 1321824455 570090 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko
< 1321824455 853455 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregregregregregregregregregorgorgorgorgorgorgorgorgor
< 1321824456 806057 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this... freeform okoing
< 1321824462 15971 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, your name makes me think of creatures of the deep
< 1321824462 677846 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah that's true.
< 1321824462 723135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1321824462 814596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so beautiful
< 1321824468 17397 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should
< 1321824473 741928 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eliot" is clearly the best spelling variation of that name.
< 1321824479 721165 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick shachaf
< 1321824482 55257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even want to know what oklopol means
< 1321824495 33151 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a whole mythology
< 1321824500 241399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is secretly lopolko
< 1321824506 236800 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O
< 1321824507 430598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO IS IN CAHOOTS WITH ROGER G.
< 1321824508 329694 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :La polka
< 1321824508 696075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNEW IT!
< 1321824536 322202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taneb" actually comes from "Benat" <-- trivia
< 1321824537 383932 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Why don't you go read something by T. S. Elliott? Oh, wait, that person doesn't exist.
< 1321824560 561023 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What the fuck did T. S. Eliot ever do for us? Ruin the name Elliott, that's what.
< 1321824563 967789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321824570 660633 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a portmantaeu for a shared account that I ended up using way more than Ben ever did
< 1321824573 489619 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: He wrote all those cat poems, man.
< 1321824582 848448 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the world ends is actually with me beating people who misspell my name to a bloody pulp.
< 1321824587 923814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hey T. S. Eliot has some good poems.
< 1321824590 913901 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it becomes a black hole and gobbles up everything.
< 1321824597 168830 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also all those other poems.
< 1321824602 402804 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like: BAD-ems.
< 1321824606 668943 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write poems
< 1321824610 323459 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no.
< 1321824614 443578 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean poo-ems?
< 1321824625 173268 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(funnier than bad-ems)
< 1321824626 132103 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
< 1321824627 275398 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facepalm.
< 1321824629 134194 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: me too!
< 1321824633 914390 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOTERIC POETRY CLub
< 1321824638 513231 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My best insults most people in the world in the first half of a line
< 1321824639 107923 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No stop.
< 1321824640 418625 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're
< 1321824641 636661 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruining life
< 1321824658 606663 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All humans are bastards, that is the truth
< 1321824665 525729 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All part of a perfect worlds spook
< 1321824678 134518 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ook/oof/
< 1321824679 643476 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this great poem titled "O Eliotttt"
< 1321824684 848533 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1321824685 401257 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate
< 1321824685 988508 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :life
< 1321824686 731946 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also
< 1321824687 139903 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In this dark parody that is real life
< 1321824687 975923 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf
< 1321824689 438353 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321824689 951103 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321824694 236905 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im leaving until Ngevd is done with his uh
< 1321824695 894628 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: shachaf = life
< 1321824696 537078 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful recitation
< 1321824698 194362 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321824698 852810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A world of poverty, greed, and Strife"
< 1321824699 108853 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to be redundant.
< 1321824700 493172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am done
< 1321824715 496135 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: am done
< 1321824728 471458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott_ am done
< 1321824728 884081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321824743 732923 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more eliotttttttt.
< 1321824760 208216 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-160.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321824763 88578 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321824767 580256 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is done
< 1321824776 321200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :am doont
< 1321824780 71548 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1321824780 946608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet said 52s ago: am done
< 1321824780 991842 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :deet doot doit
< 1321824807 181579 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321824809 119552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: yes that is what I said
< 1321824826 487068 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, am done
< 1321824826 873740 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i met all the devs if they know nothing about articles though now that you have
< 1321824848 98340 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : does the haskell vm implement cyclic lists by thunk or by actually creating a cyclic data structure?
< 1321824859 241731 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't :P
< 1321824868 522964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: man these fetch modi keep getting more ridiculous and not burdening.
< 1321824873 375705 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's thunks, but they become actual cyclic once all of them have been evaluated.
< 1321824875 574315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ais523 wiki spam
< 1321824875 708382 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 wiki spam ais523 wiki spam
< 1321824885 95364 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's an awfully weird way to describe sharing.
< 1321824885 824824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: heh, I was just checking that now
< 1321824887 633282 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ^echo
< 1321824887 867455 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ^echo
< 1321824899 577613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, are we still discussing cyclic structures in here?
< 1321824913 401203 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't some crystals have cyclic structures?
< 1321824918 469597 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's a cyclic thunk, which becomes an ordinary cyclic structure when sufficiently evaluated
< 1321824919 3156 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've moved on to bicyclic structures now.
< 1321824940 919468 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ordinary" in the sense of non-haskell structures
< 1321824963 803029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src cycle
< 1321824964 165570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle [] = undefined
< 1321824964 358434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle xs = xs' where xs' = xs ++ xs'
< 1321824993 599982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that form a cyclic linked list?
< 1321824998 196635 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321825009 85069 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no guarantees in the Report. :-)
< 1321825010 222042 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because of the weird xs' where xs' =
< 1321825011 889328 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit
< 1321825021 286071 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it would happen just the same if it used fix
< 1321825023 446098 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what makes GHC do it, yes.
< 1321825030 611165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for purposes of further discussion on Haskell it can be assumed we're talking about GHC.
< 1321825035 723967 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that (in practice) enforces sharing of xs' in the two spots
< 1321825037 936558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(asshole :P)
< 1321825045 162112 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it definitely can't.
< 1321825053 406529 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle xs = fix (xs++)
< 1321825065 148319 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ([]++)
< 1321825068 577943 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure most/all other haskell compilers actually written will do that too
< 1321825069 464097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1321825092 537573 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, i really want to know if this tehz guy on reddit is the wiki guy
< 1321825093 264133 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321825095 471403 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's really stupid
< 1321825097 611654 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hate him
< 1321825105 906355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sugar coats things
< 1321825107 429547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1321825129 96107 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought is rather philosophical: Would it be possible to construct a compiler (in haskell or some future derivate) that doesn't require monads in the definition? For this to work I suppose that the compiler would have to be "compiled along with the program it is compiling". Then again what entity would compile both the compiler and the program?
< 1321825146 448781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321825146 987474 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321825149 466187 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for someone to assume he wrote that.
< 1321825152 62640 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for sharing, elliott_.
< 1321825168 712044 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I do best.
< 1321825171 713726 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharing, and caring.
< 1321825173 251056 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hating.
< 1321825183 211082 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clarification: In order to not require monads in order to parse, interpret and emit code the input has to be known when interpreting the compiler. It has to be "part" of the compiler itself. That is somewhat impossible. Unless, I imagine, you postpone compilation of the actual compiler until you have the program. Thus the program that you want to compile becomes part of the compiler itself - and not an input to the compiler. Possibly the "what then compi
< 1321825183 326195 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :les the compiler"-problem could be solved making the compiler self-hosting. -> (Oh, I sense a rather strange loop here...)
< 1321825202 239639 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quis compiliet ipsos compiles?
< 1321825204 950122 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riddle me that.
< 1321825210 993446 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell this makes no sense.
< 1321825221 154140 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quid pro COMPILEUM, shachaf!!!
< 1321825262 606997 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Fortunately monads.
< 1321825267 267575 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god monads
< 1321825274 140649 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless you monads
< 1321825277 524940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how lack of monads requires any of that.
< 1321825283 519148 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bless you, monads. Blonads.
< 1321825293 252746 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Blonad a where ...
< 1321825313 168171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck :: Your Mom -> Fucked Mom
< 1321825330 607767 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. :>
< 1321825337 464572 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Blonad b where phase :: b (b a) -> a; glunt :: b a -> (a -> b c) -> b (b c)
< 1321825363 183755 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's oerjan, I forgot to ask (the .no cop): "Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, estas rano en mia bideo."
< 1321825363 307713 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my
< 1321825373 92814 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not norwegiwngan
< 1321825375 4508 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unfortunately, there's a radio connected to my brain"
< 1321825381 56886 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actually, it's the BBC controlling us from London"
< 1321825381 709756 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot, I know
< 1321825405 444787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC: the true ruler of the UK
< 1321825407 320116 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like Esperanto.
< 1321825411 35271 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an evil language.
< 1321825432 729145 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the one where your mom's up against walls with sailors?
< 1321825459 130199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: updottpplllwo3[]l[df[;]
< 1321825512 719158 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I hate you. I should trust my notifier.
< 1321825533 133959 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're my hero
< 1321825549 853203 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conalelliotttcable_
< 1321825607 708293 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: :3 :> 3>
< 1321825613 646134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, <#
< 1321825614 367889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1321825615 347951 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321825629 773509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3>  butt cone
< 1321825656 50714 :MonkeyofDoom!~one@24-107-148-93.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321825715 502810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's worse when put through the Japanese foreign language pedagogy filter.
< 1321825726 341523 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What?
< 1321825737 171824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a construct devised by pikhq himself.
< 1321825749 953970 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bonboru arusenji ra porujisutonn, esutasu rano en mia bideo"
< 1321825763 572406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, just a comment on how foreign languages are taught in Japan.
< 1321825782 650026 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1321825782 881309 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez
< 1321825787 810691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sffedeesh Bonboru arusenji ra porujisutonn, esutasu rano en mia bideo
< 1321825788 482921 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boooonbooooruuuu iruuuusenjee-a-a-a ra pooooruuuujeesuuuutoooonn, isuuuutesuuuu roooonoooo ie-a-a-a meea beedeoooo
< 1321825832 336037 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sffedeesh Bork
< 1321825832 782450 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boooork
< 1321825853 844762 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pikhq The fuck is this?
< 1321825854 303761 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Þe fuck iſ þiſ?
< 1321825862 610389 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Incorrect.
< 1321825887 836095 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: quote pls I am lazy
< 1321825912 989063 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-15.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]
< 1321825927 661250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!redneck hello my friends how are you all doing?
< 1321825928 65186 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey there muh frien's how are yew all doin'?
< 1321825950 41742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst redneck ever.
< 1321825998 370587 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all
< 1321826010 474765 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy
< 1321826027 418217 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: wat
< 1321826033 768541 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's esperanto, surely
< 1321826044 375517 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :vikigns don't understand the concept of redneck.
< 1321826047 874875 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw in a little Spanglish, too ... muchachos, amigos
< 1321826066 694037 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: that's the horrid southwestern bastardization, you fool!
< 1321826076 718403 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E-o? only the quote earlier
< 1321826086 564911 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :including "howdy", no one says howdy in the southeast (well, they probably do actually)
< 1321826098 806544 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can vouch for it
< 1321826125 809138 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.3 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321826126 48847 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"melting pot"
< 1321826193 343001 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: well of course.  now what does it have to do with .no?
< 1321826254 327646 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : this reminds of how it's illegal in norway to insult a police officer, but _what_ you can say varies by region
< 1321826288 638903 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: and what does that have to do with the esperanto quote
< 1321826303 863277 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say that, see what happens    ;-)
< 1321826344 620922 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@
< 1321826397 88499 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+_+
< 1321826411 610328 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think oerjan gets the joke
< 1321826454 77709 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321826460 314470 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say.
< 1321826530 6998 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0684161/quotes
< 1321826626 771810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man these quotes are HILARIOUS
< 1321826636 686389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am dying from humor intake.
< 1321826639 457043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :humor poisoning
< 1321826655 137466 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also vowel deficiency
< 1321826732 696032 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're bringing the show back too (allegedly)
< 1321826885 346277 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that feeling you get when a huge important paper is due tomorrow and you just now realized it?
< 1321826938 488735 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is afraid of the answer
< 1321826987 484290 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never seen Red Dwarf
< 1321827001 574780 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also has never seen Ghostbusters
< 1321827003 446986 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1321827021 795415 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've just noticed that currently on TV is a BBC programme dealing with offended people's letters.
< 1321827034 564488 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should get john cleese for that.
< 1321827036 165956 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you are bad
< 1321827050 27424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you are good
< 1321827057 447955 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: hm?
< 1321827064 998961 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : they should get john cleese for that.
< 1321827130 681957 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Cleese was off his nut these days?
< 1321827133 84484 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crosses the streams at Sgeo 
< 1321827145 568580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past John Cleese
< 1321827160 6781 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: oh no, he's working like mad to pay off his divorce
< 1321827169 353507 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321827175 68230 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that what "off his nut" means
< 1321827179 218556 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome andrew12
< 1321827180 946155 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321827183 493252 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321827185 571060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to load up on caffeine.
< 1321827205 767007 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you see me join? i've been here since yesterday and already gotten that thrown at me
< 1321827212 877821 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321827224 418840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andrew, is that you?
< 1321827263 956429 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1321827274 889000 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, I'm thinking of a different Andrew
< 1321827302 614205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: oh no, i'm going to have to switch to ais523's method of not telling who he's welcoming
< 1321827304 974387 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1321827320 81727 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome fungot
< 1321827320 565299 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fnord were a huge hit in japan and people are fnord by theodore kaczynski, fnord fnord fnord
< 1321827322 491647 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321827331 353056 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321827331 541251 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321827335 867209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah
< 1321827336 230809 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot knows to ignore other bots? :-(
< 1321827336 368103 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well i do know that song.
< 1321827348 552731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: I just welcome people at random, in the hope that when I do it to someone in your situation then people won't shout at me
< 1321827355 69277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: usually that's done after a few bot loops
< 1321827358 760773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I got the last exploit by @telling lambdabot to say fungot
< 1321827359 195457 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i tried making something that i probably won't be at the next update which is soon.
< 1321827359 425030 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome ais523
< 1321827361 267825 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was then corrected.
< 1321827361 661085 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321827379 218895 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ?where fungot
< 1321827379 780768 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you'll *also* have some idea why it's different :) but i'm willing to convert my tabs to spaces from me hitting tab again and have it work
< 1321827380 957643 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?where fungot
< 1321827389 65225 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot?
< 1321827396 690626 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, come on, lambdabot!
< 1321827402 939187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "I don't listen to people with 'bot' in their name, IIRC"
< 1321827403 725779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "I don't listen to people with 'bot' in their name, IIRC"
< 1321827415 937188 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Tanebbot
< 1321827417 191019 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not only does fungot know to ignore bots, but HackEgo and EgoBot know how to be ignored by bots
< 1321827417 725525 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to be honest, i'm not ruling that out. i have bad expirience with that from emacs)
< 1321827419 574388 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklobot
< 1321827422 393996 :Tanebbot!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "Let's put this to the test"
< 1321827423 421057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "Let's put this to the test"
< 1321827430 236753 :Tanebbot!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net NICK :Ngevd
< 1321827432 639718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently noy that
< 1321827438 170480 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember oklobot?
< 1321827440 325482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, fungot /doesn't/ have "Bot" in its name
< 1321827440 689953 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd. it had a special form, not about this specific form
< 1321827447 670757 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was my first bot
< 1321827457 223657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it do? oing?
< 1321827459 9960 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo prints a non-printing character first
< 1321827460 652246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bot could do that really well
< 1321827467 9517 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had that weird stack language that basically just had access to two integers
< 1321827468 712244 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :STupid bot.
< 1321827473 600227 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember Pietbot?
< 1321827474 820855 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm... there's a loophole isn't there
< 1321827477 744096 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That never did work
< 1321827488 644544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo lambdabot: > 2+2
< 1321827489 41664 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: > 2+2
< 1321827499 414759 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm apparently not
< 1321827503 113602 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: > 2+2
< 1321827506 907150 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321827513 236031 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321827517 513306 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @hm
< 1321827517 678610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do ft ghc id pl rc thx v wn
< 1321827529 226939 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-30.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321827529 272326 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo lambdabot: @run 2+2
< 1321827529 635258 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @run 2+2
< 1321827530 909089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  4
< 1321827532 930825 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321827562 440274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves the rest as an exercise
< 1321827571 130686 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where+ EgoBot !echo foo
< 1321827571 471567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1321827578 232195 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo ?where EgoBot
< 1321827578 646948 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?where EgoBot
< 1321827580 154258 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: !echo test
< 1321827587 895567 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo lambdabot: ?where EgoBot
< 1321827588 246656 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: ?where EgoBot
< 1321827588 949026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo foo
< 1321827589 308395 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
< 1321827614 425214 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523
> 1321827614 466571 NAMES :#esoteric
< 1321827622 446486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case I need to +m the channel for a few seconds to break botloops
< 1321827629 609911 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to do it!
< 1321827670 934176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321827678 5291 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome
< 1321827680 134011 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321827703 113465 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "hello, and\n`welcome"
< 1321827703 975748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  hello, and
< 1321827704 281656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `welcome
< 1321827705 376988 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just use `welcome as a generic greating
< 1321827708 469557 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phooey.
< 1321827717 885441 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where+ EgoBot `welcome
< 1321827718 234260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will remember.
< 1321827722 469574 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where EgoBot
< 1321827722 614059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome
< 1321827724 686851 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321827752 852179 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ?where EgoBot
< 1321827752 933829 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where EgoBot ?where EgoBot
< 1321827753 289272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome
< 1321827755 742824 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321827786 857413 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo ^echo ?where EgoBot
< 1321827787 189816 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​^echo ?where EgoBot
< 1321827797 29772 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes
< 1321827807 396706 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot == clever bot
< 1321827807 702497 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it would probably be too simple to concern themselves with state. i think it would be
< 1321827828 598220 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even thinks!
< 1321827845 604611 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot inserts a zero-width character if the output starts with any punctuation mark
< 1321827860 94676 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1321827874 545100 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot.cleverness > fungot.cleverness
< 1321827875 102730 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: as i said :p. but the original idea was to port the thing over to fnord. i can't imagine
< 1321827882 637527 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my computer, the zero-width character is visible, and it overlaps the colon before the message
< 1321827884 465895 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ?where
< 1321827884 644320 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where ?where
< 1321827885 26232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where ?where
< 1321827893 680214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot even imagine
< 1321827894 162651 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you using as a file pathname? should return t only for pathname objects. the fact that what is called ' consistency' before
< 1321827904 989309 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so tempted to make a bot loop. :-(
< 1321827919 338643 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321828014 80908 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321828059 68746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's traditional!
< 1321828062 833826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-83-43.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321828132 655214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot get a loop with fungot, since that has an ignore list
< 1321828133 133341 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why do laptops suck for webdev? they run vim as graphical, although it isn't really
< 1321828223 934481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where huh
< 1321828224 186641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about huh.
< 1321828228 262879 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where ?where
< 1321828228 605813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where ?where
< 1321828231 423400 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where >
< 1321828231 689902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about >.
< 1321828237 838539 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is ?where
< 1321828267 500886 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?list where
< 1321828267 853779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where provides: where url what where+
< 1321828278 343336 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful
< 1321828281 341979 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?what ?where
< 1321828281 438058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where ?where
< 1321828301 468261 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where Google
< 1321828301 728595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountain View, California
< 1321828304 488846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321828310 651826 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where lambdabot
< 1321828310 817752 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like HackEgo's `?
< 1321828310 863196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Lambdabot
< 1321828318 169870 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Mountain View, California. I've been there.
< 1321828330 992746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where Microsoft
< 1321828331 281269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about microsoft.
< 1321828335 415765 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where Sgeo
< 1321828335 581052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about sgeo.
< 1321828379 594884 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where haskell
< 1321828379 994072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org
< 1321828382 292378 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where oerjan
< 1321828382 741124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about oerjan.
< 1321828384 414885 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where elliott
< 1321828384 885679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is tumbling around Northumberland
< 1321828405 329772 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is elliott actually in Northumberland?
< 1321828409 294629 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321828515 872993 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Redmond, Washington.
< 1321828527 69866 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not use this calculator as a card in a card game or as a meat in a hamburger.
< 1321828534 213634 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i've been, btw
< 1321828665 797073 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should go visit elliott.
< 1321828679 458357 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does he do wherever he is, anyway?
< 1321828685 567485 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland?
< 1321828691 629539 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321828695 397900 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew
< 1321828704 117848 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may end up there one day, though! You can never tell with bees.
< 1321828704 507645 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have room for more esolangers there.
< 1321828714 140745 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland?
< 1321828718 127856 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321828723 204403 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whew.
< 1321828729 575885 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have room for more esolangers there.
< 1321828737 254678 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321828764 44187 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321828764 44266 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321828804 630935 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait, you are a bee?
< 1321828846 29960 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether to answer that question.
< 1321828861 369183 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321828863 326352 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's a secret? ok.
< 1321828873 792629 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something along those lines.
< 1321828895 543701 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bee from the land of milk and honey
< 1321828948 595382 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf
< 1321828950 753300 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad
< 1321828958 327563 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn shachaf is a bee.
< 1321828960 820836 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1321828969 87568 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1321828971 481446 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your future evil overlord oerjan is an expert in lazy computation.
< 1321828974 246496 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Phantom__Hoover
< 1321828976 718198 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321828978 753050 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Phantom_Hoover
< 1321828981 40443 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1321828985 879612 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(
< 1321828988 86946 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321828990 715724 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking
< 1321829019 744772 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Phantom_Hoover is a true scotsman and hatheist.
< 1321829021 756246 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1321829049 517661 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
< 1321829052 415532 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1321829125 811417 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Phantom_Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist.
< 1321829128 166638 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1321829161 831516 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You realize I used two _'s there X_X
< 1321829166 91384 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321829167 688194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind :P
< 1321829169 551204 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321829170 540424 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were correcting caps.
< 1321829179 13334 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were trying to reset, but I'm le'dumb.
< 1321829187 933477 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Gregor
< 1321829189 798812 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
< 1321829199 481813 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where Gregor
< 1321829199 621300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about gregor.
< 1321829207 313793 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where zzo38
< 1321829207 701227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about zzo38.
< 1321829238 493237 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?where+ zzo38 is Canadian, eh
< 1321829238 769351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1321829287 502488 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is Canadian?
< 1321829290 959554 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321829294 931692 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321829295 596968 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking, isn't it
< 1321829297 910262 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what of the great Gregor Wertheimer?
< 1321829305 85888 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION admits to being kind of surprised.
< 1321829307 666711 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's your last name?
< 1321829316 730986 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :McCanadacle
< 1321829346 228861 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's a quite european-sounding name
< 1321829404 775862 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, english actually
< 1321829450 239466 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION made a Skyrim character.
< 1321829451 158084 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :England: No longer part of Europe. (Well, to be fair it never REALLY was)
< 1321829470 974825 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that was a narrowing, not a correction :P
< 1321829473 745405 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breton warrior-mage kind of dude. focusing on one-hand, block, heavy armor, conjuration, block, and alteration.
< 1321829492 177312 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I mention block?
< 1321829511 426730 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just block and block
< 1321829514 329934 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make an Uber smiter.
< 1321829522 762060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is, but okay.
< 1321829532 17385 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically he's kind of like a warlock knight.
< 1321829534 408590 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, for the Ubers.
< 1321829566 387567 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably kind of tankish because block + heavy armor + Breton magic resistance + armor spell
< 1321829582 318661 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and summoned minion.
< 1321829598 245285 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 points in Smite, Holy Shield, Fanaticism/Defiance, something like that.
< 1321829602 176893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember, it's been a while.
< 1321829604 250156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes of  course.
< 1321829616 313320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that sounds like... Diablo?
< 1321829629 169874 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :paladin class in Diablo I think has those.
< 1321829632 657186 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1321829636 145638 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diablo II.
< 1321829636 684680 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Diablo II
< 1321829637 898447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321829654 67144 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had such a great smiter.
< 1321829664 485107 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a complete lie. I had a barely adequeate smiter.
< 1321829667 735518 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I remember him fondly.
< 1321829669 501969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually played necro or sorc or... yeah that's pretty much it.
< 1321829684 337356 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Did you play online?
< 1321829687 307791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321829693 11150 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever do the Ubers?
< 1321829695 707078 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321829698 442844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is.
< 1321829700 867206 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw.
< 1321829723 185498 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an online-only thing with a super-powerful version of Diablo,Mephisto,Baal in one level.
< 1321829749 60045 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually they dropped a http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Hellfire_Torch
< 1321829755 169851 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a little bit of destruction but I don't really want to focus on it because fireballs and lightning bolts are boring.
< 1321829766 669683 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A smiter was pretty much the safest way to kill them.
< 1321829778 761683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but setting people on fire as you smash them over the head with a mace is pretty enjoyable.
< 1321829868 105734 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sorceress was pretty much ridiculous.
< 1321829874 115414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the ice orb thing.
< 1321829889 871480 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sounds to me like you didn't play beyond the first difficulty level.
< 1321829907 75273 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Nightmare and especially in Hell there are lots of ice-immune monsters.
< 1321829912 773795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I wasn't a h4rdc0r3 D2 person.
< 1321829926 958331 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fire-immune and lightning-immune. A sorceress couldn't get far on her own without being very careful.
< 1321829928 539041 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thus, 1 2>a will invoke register a's contents and 2 1>a will not."
< 1321829929 722802 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1321829937 674297 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought my comparisons were all off.
< 1321829940 675960 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the universe is all off.
< 1321829959 988475 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 2 / is 10/2, not 2/10. And yet 10 2 > is 2>10, not 10>2
< 1321829962 306723 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU DC
< 1321829975 14065 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally I wonder, as I sit outside filling my lungs with carcinogens
< 1321829983 611929 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if some evil bug monster has evolved right at my house
< 1321829990 467228 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the first few of its kind.
< 1321830005 482351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some giant hive of giant bees.
< 1321830012 166076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like a giant scorpion thing.
< 1321830028 316477 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with projectile stingers.
< 1321830148 859150 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO JUST GOT SOME DUFF'S DEVICE IN THIS BITCH
< 1321830154 831895 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREGOR JUST GOT SOME DUFF'S DEVICE IN THIS BITCH
< 1321830165 123195 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: not actually Duff's device, just aesthetically similar)
< 1321830315 609298 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the D2 ladder was just reset on Oct 25.
< 1321830321 736884 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should play...
< 1321830654 216304 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :D2?
< 1321830843 259047 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321830883 916854 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321830884 836139 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321830972 550784 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG
< 1321830973 536575 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAHAHAHA
< 1321830977 309237 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am ONE BYTE below the limit.
< 1321830979 364341 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2047 code bytes.
< 1321830994 262405 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321831019 139954 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321831151 889087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: quick! find a problem that requires more code!
< 1321831179 501000 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: This problem requires more code, but sadly I haven't the space.
< 1321831366 30741 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi
< 1321831375 607449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played Skyrim. :3
< 1321831393 816434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: golf it up.
< 1321831405 749619 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's golfed all to hell.
< 1321831451 906054 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I wrote a (tragically non-golf) program to give me recommendations on what to reduce with typedefs/#defines.
< 1321831514 441299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice.
< 1321831534 819432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321831587 125284 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could devise a programming language based on big burly men wrestling.
< 1321831608 178670 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends
< 1321831612 187744 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you consider sumo wrestlers burly
< 1321831615 964370 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1321831620 189371 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes
< 1321831639 655497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one challenger could be halt, the other could be non-halt
< 1321831649 428971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEY BATTLE TO SEE WHO WINS.
< 1321831654 399476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spoiler: non-halt never wins)
< 1321831655 587325 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it needs to be three ways
< 1321831659 519789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting problem: SOLVED
< 1321831662 491461 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1321831669 148592 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :two ways between accept and reject
< 1321831674 640319 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-halting program is a draw
< 1321831726 529196 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess your input is like WEAPONS
< 1321831732 558821 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. uh.. ADVANTAGES
< 1321831828 684435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.npr.org/2011/11/20/142569472/how-one-man-played-moneyball-with-jeopardy?sc=fb&cc=fp
< 1321831998 369367 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy the comments where people say he is cheating.
< 1321832394 184091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using data-mining and text-clustering techniques, Craig grouped questions by category to figure out which topics were statistically common — and which weren't."
< 1321832403 466575 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't this be s/questions/answers/?
< 1321832443 503590 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is not here
< 1321832449 622152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: updoot
< 1321832466 901024 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes, that's what I wanted to tell elliott
< 1321832478 740825 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brave sir elliott ran away, he bravely ran away away
< 1321832488 721736 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS YOU JUST WON'T NOW, HUH?
< 1321832490 986134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO.
< 1321832513 990324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the world
< 1321832514 987258 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ending
< 1321832524 707610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't tell elliott
< 1321832532 586068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the uhpdeet
< 1321832573 817220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gentley shooshpaps Sgeo.
< 1321832599 635520 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to go
< 1321832686 360114 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm going to ignore the previous thing you said and continue talking to you
< 1321832694 304506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is Dr. Brinner actually going to be a thing.
< 1321832700 690914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it could possibly be a good idea.
< 1321832710 17694 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm pretty sure it's just a non-existent parody thing of homestuck.
< 1321832792 605330 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye
< 1321833030 696826 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm out of platforms.
< 1321833065 153166 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what about PS2 and Nintendo 64?
< 1321833156 788166 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So, MIPS and MIPS?
< 1321833160 239450 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Covered and covered.
< 1321833446 77681 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321833544 986894 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want one more architecture so it's an even dozen.
< 1321833546 789985 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Super Nintendo?
< 1321833561 354609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs to be 32-bit :P
< 1321833574 91315 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT PORTABLE ENOUGH
< 1321833583 95942 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1321833595 872294 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit needs to run on MOS Technology 6502.
< 1321834378 908518 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the game has just been released, only a moderate amount is known about the gameplay. Although there is a decent amount of information that has been shown, it appears as though this information only scratches the surface."
< 1321834383 204486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from elder scrolls wiki
< 1321834403 92870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how people are just assuming that Skyrim has all these uncovered secrets
< 1321834414 66383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they've bought into too much hype.
< 1321834416 637737 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, if you're a munchkin
< 1321834431 46861 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you're reading the wiki, you're a munchkin.
< 1321834444 171774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a munchkin?
< 1321834461 653396 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a creature from the wizard of oz.  hth.
< 1321834516 235394 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their wiki-reading powers were even more impressive as they had no computers
< 1321835083 750285 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Regarding that paging algorithm anecdote a couple days ago which you asked if had anything to do with synchronicity - today's GLL is about the question: http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/another-annoying-open-problem/
< 1321835084 157582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321835097 508481 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1321835969 618181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so apparently the bound weapons in skyrim are equivalent to ebony weapons in damage.
< 1321836006 790368 :simpleirc966!~simpleirc@189.82.119.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321836013 15243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also scale with your weapon skill (one-handed skill improves the damage of bound sword). which means they're retardedly good at early levels.
< 1321836074 404736 :simpleirc966!~simpleirc@189.82.119.106 PART :#esoteric
< 1321836260 441336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might actually try dual-wielding bound swords instead of using a shield, and then later once I get nice enchanted weapons and use those (and then use the bound sword to refill soul gems)
< 1321836439 203203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed in the complete lack of variety of spells in this game though. There are only three conjured weapon spells now instead of bound boots, bound bow, bound cuirass, bound dagger, bound gauntlets, bound greaves, bound helmet, bound mace, bound shield, etc, etc
< 1321836443 115749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in oblivion
< 1321836554 61207 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted most of the bound armor spells are probably not very good, but they could have kept the variety of weapon conjuration spells
< 1321836604 581524 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spell system is so horribly unrealistic
< 1321836628 618431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P
< 1321837312 362424 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bound Mead
< 1321838442 138817 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1321838962 338173 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: presumably the alcohol would leave your system once the conjuration spell wears out.
< 1321838983 905286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant hangover cure!
< 1321839109 951388 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, I have played, Dungeons and Dragons game.
< 1321839239 196790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321839766 154286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: bye
< 1321841296 289872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* Canterbury Tales is perhaps the most pointless feature of an English class. It's *literally in a different language* for goodness sake!
< 1321841357 990749 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This complaint brought about by listening to my little sisters.
< 1321841389 41195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but it's such a good story about uh
< 1321841391 778049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whatever it's about.
< 1321841402 151761 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we did have some norse myths in norwegian class
< 1321841418 178927 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Were they in the original Old Norse?
< 1321841422 261428 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321841429 380687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fucking cruel.
< 1321841434 824862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :norse myths are way more awesome than Canterbury Tales though.
< 1321841435 900667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pointless.
< 1321841453 556071 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does have the redeeming factor that Norse myths are way more awesome than Canterbury Tales.
< 1321841483 456275 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only a taste during one year of high school though, afair
< 1321841513 107055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also some swedish and danish
< 1321841532 396671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no British mythology in schools? Did none of the writing survive?
< 1321841552 849829 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no single "British mythology".
< 1321841562 215554 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is there other than beowulf?
< 1321841630 656677 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Norse mythology is itself a version of Germanic mythology; the Anglo-Saxons had their own.
< 1321841646 341008 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: remind me. what's the best way to grab a list of numbers from a line of input -- oh nevermind (map read . words) <$> getLine
< 1321841648 112664 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that has survived
< 1321841672 950004 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parentheses not necessary
< 1321841675 13788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way as in simplest not necessarily the safest industry strength shit ever.
< 1321841699 416703 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well that'll obviously break if there's any misformatting
< 1321841705 105916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321841706 881802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine
< 1321841719 116357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this a program to calculate averages from a list of numbers :)
< 1321841720 934158 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Random samplings of things; nothing exceptionally *long*, though. Beowulf is the only surviving epic poem of the era.
< 1321841792 86765 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah as was my impression
< 1321841804 592980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news: length is stupid. genericLength is good.
< 1321841805 414666 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Anglo-Saxon myths aren't the only bits of English mythology. The Celts are also from the British Isles. :)
< 1321841833 615629 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally just went through an entire thread of discussion with multiple haskell nubs being completely baffled on how to write a simple averaging program.
< 1321841839 472747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sum ls / length ls  does not work
< 1321841853 857800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it probably shouldn't.
< 1321841873 81253 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually even genericLength doesn't work iirv
< 1321841874 781432 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c
< 1321841879 812628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t genericLength
< 1321841880 555916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b i. (Num i) => [b] -> i
< 1321841880 816831 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does
< 1321841883 310854 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321841891 260206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = [1,2,3] in sum x / genericLength x
< 1321841891 713274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it might be Integral
< 1321841892 203431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.0
< 1321841899 45008 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it should be.
< 1321841951 5416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the $ even necessary in forever $ do ...
< 1321841957 247160 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321841964 274479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1321841971 468362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes sese.
< 1321841973 558000 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sense
< 1321842015 64189 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\, do and let cannot be used directly as arguments
< 1321842018 609198 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems reasonable that you could omit parenthesis around a do block and they would be placed explicitly around it.
< 1321842035 66643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with explicit parens being used in situations where you have something trailing the do block in the expression
< 1321842048 258083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, $ is perfectly fine. -uses that-
< 1321842057 652579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321842060 32897 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implicitly :P
< 1321842061 968225 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  i was surprised way back when i discovered it, too
< 1321842071 542683 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that it doesn't work)
< 1321842077 889971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321842126 784128 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle genericLength
< 1321842127 189022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List genericLength :: Num i => [b] -> i
< 1321842141 263797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw no Prelude
< 1321842147 114130 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321842163 647492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much import Control.Monad and Data.List without even considering if I need them or not
< 1321842166 741164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321842169 136300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will
< 1321842173 245906 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321842175 26307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably Control.Applicative but sometimes not
< 1321842204 430229 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they're like secondary syntax
< 1321842242 313796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that <$> should be Control.Monad
< 1321842247 394307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just in Prelude or something.
< 1321842303 367133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative makes sense though, as its used in the f <$> x <*> y  idiom
< 1321842304 844680 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in .ghci
< 1321842326 707347 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321842329 120621 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but <$> really has nothing to do with Applicative. :P
< 1321842335 248723 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or monads I guess...)
< 1321842358 536306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that monads and applicatives are functors.
< 1321842417 825261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle f a -> f b -> f b
< 1321842418 78319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (*>) :: Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b
< 1321842418 527467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
< 1321842418 572824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
< 1321842464 861022 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1, 2, 3] *> [4,5,6] == [1,2,3] >> [4,5,6]
< 1321842465 718726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Precedence parsing error
< 1321842465 993978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :     cannot mix `Control.Applicative.*>' [infixl 4...
< 1321842474 140223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ([1, 2, 3] *> [4,5,6]) == ([1,2,3] >> [4,5,6])
< 1321842475 3145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321842536 512368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Haskell should just have a FunctorApplicativeMonad class. yes, that's a good name for it.
< 1321842690 130881 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i think <$> is also exported from Data.Functor
< 1321842727 766752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I never actually import that. :P
< 1321842753 892436 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well if they fixed the missing subclassing mess, Monad should reexport Applicative should reexport Functor
< 1321842762 992574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1321842784 446526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad never seems to have <$>. let me double check.
< 1321842797 120364 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course not.
< 1321842817 201376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad should reexport Applicative should reexport Functor
< 1321842818 942496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1321842825 523625 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a function of Monad or any current superclass
< 1321842834 810126 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: *Data.*
< 1321842837 658200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321842838 893101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1321842846 79240 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Monad rexports Functor transitively
< 1321842848 820389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is <$> not there?
< 1321842858 542880 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say it did, i said it _should_ do it
< 1321842879 222537 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once Monad becomes a real subclass of Applicative
< 1321842888 902021 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you meant the kind of "should" that means "I'm fairly certain this is the truth"
< 1321842901 777480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the normative "this is how it should be but is not" version :P
< 1321842921 734361 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see my tenses could be interpreted as "this has already happened"
< 1321842925 922058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes that should happen in Haskell 2020
< 1321842943 126023 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingers crossed
< 1321842963 968202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to painstakingly collect statistics from a dumb questionnaire thing.
< 1321842972 345732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 10 page report that's due tomorrow that I am just now starting
< 1321842973 118711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss
< 1321843281 644052 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably could have just used an existing calculator program to do these averages
< 1321843286 727398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THIS IS EASY TOO
< 1321843343 620770 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of baffled as to how my program knows which Read instance to use.
< 1321843358 240504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only inferred types are typeclasses.
< 1321843363 889920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (/)
< 1321843365 13090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a
< 1321843373 467533 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haskell do some kind of auto-default thing?
< 1321843399 982391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does Fractional have a Read instance?
< 1321843480 987030 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it defaults to Integer or Double, as appropriate
< 1321843512 167251 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change that with a default declaration
< 1321843536 948193 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321843546 466659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this feature available for other data types?
< 1321843574 415919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an ExtendedDefaulting option
< 1321843588 887545 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be good to declare String as default for IsString for example
< 1321843594 596860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if OverloadedStrings doesn't already.
< 1321843626 539418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure but that might work with the extended option
< 1321843648 336496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an Expr default would be nice for SimpleReflect
< 1321843671 538250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the extended option, it's limited to only numerical classes defined in the haskell report
< 1321843833 572931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you know anything about the CS program at your school?
< 1321843876 165582 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321843883 260801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise oerjan was presently in a school.
< 1321843891 244710 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the main reason :P
< 1321843909 43404 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go, that makes more sense. :)
< 1321843932 375564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay.
< 1321843955 110189 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You should've quit with "Exception: Prelude.undefined" and left people to figure out what they said wrong.
< 1321843978 472454 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, additional classes are permitted from the standard library.  but for some reason Random seems to have been left out in the implementations i've tried (ghc, hugs)
< 1321844025 124359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, last i tried
< 1321844054 284574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (1 +) $ randoms (mkStdGen 42)
< 1321844055 357536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [-3907187990116499534,-2519438828217931932,-8264534369199619666,86887135830...
< 1321844058 644232 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321844059 742953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/equations-over-groups-a-mess/
< 1321844064 781475 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this you in the first visible comment?
< 1321844078 256756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it is
< 1321844079 452219 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it may have been fixed
< 1321844085 49247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is also a Phantom Hoover
< 1321844114 128106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Phantom Hoover and a Ørjan Johansen in the same comment thread about math stuff.
< 1321844117 293810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be oerjan.
< 1321844156 89603 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still haven't got around to ban Phantom_Hoover for that comment
< 1321844247 770374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think his user pic is a wallpaper group.
< 1321844261 8708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fitting given the subject of group theory.
< 1321844292 620320 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, that is obviously from the default pic selection
< 1321844301 399243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously?
< 1321844311 541460 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed people in #esoteric have a strange definition of obviously.
< 1321844341 161000 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it looks similar to all the others that don't have actual portraits
< 1321844361 186105 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my google chrome was lazy and only loaded half of the pictures.
< 1321844375 594889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, I see.
< 1321844395 357182 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating problem, that group theory / complexity one btw, i've been thinking more about it lately
< 1321844412 389905 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I knew anything about math. :P
< 1321844415 607266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I could comment on that.
< 1321844417 680921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how interesting it is.
< 1321844455 855062 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think i ruled out the "another idea" i made further down
< 1321844489 989185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps you should USE HASKELL TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM YEAH
< 1321844530 550969 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've considered it
< 1321844641 838476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'll learn about groups when I take topology.
< 1321844651 311826 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they in any way related?
< 1321844664 476872 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you take _algebraic_ topology
< 1321844676 859449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just an intro topology course probably.
< 1321844682 650884 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the only topology course my university offers.
< 1321844691 176149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for undergraduates.
< 1321844712 668337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first I have to take intro to advanced math, which is probably just "lolproofs"
< 1321844715 859062 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it depends whether it goes much beyond the basics
< 1321844724 672269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :proofs of what? I don't know. Maybe it will touch some things like relations and algebras.
< 1321844795 428537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already did stupid number theory and induction proofs in discrete math, so I'm hoping it will not repeat those.
< 1321844884 762527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet we'll still use naive set theory, though. because everyone loves naive set theory even though it's A PARADOX -spooky noise-
< 1321845072 789323 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well using naive set theory mostly means "using zfc but not bothering to mention the restrictions"
< 1321845090 737318 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...possibly an overstatement.
< 1321845160 333641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no that seems to be the case.
< 1321845189 791461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the kind of set theory stuff we did in discrete math was not very complicated.
< 1321845218 392306 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh discrete math probably means all the sets are finite or countable
< 1321845223 44918 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.
< 1321845225 676322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :countable.
< 1321845228 820636 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the most part.
< 1321845234 310862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of number theory stuff.
< 1321845268 391132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then we went into things like graphs which were finite and relations which are sometimes finite.
< 1321845278 79721 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then zf's replacement axiom (the fraenkel part) says the sets are all ok
< 1321845284 517132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good class. it's a nice "intro to everything fun in math"
< 1321845314 594683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to calculus
< 1321845320 382658 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is "intro to everything painful in math"
< 1321845335 438366 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321845343 44434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm just a discrete kind of guy.
< 1321845364 791595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas continuity fucks with my brain.
< 1321845408 809095 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as x approaches 1" what? I mean I know what that means but how do you define that? then I would go to my book and try to understand the definition of a limit and fail.
< 1321845446 707587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I went through derivatives and integrals and multi-dimensional integrals in calculus
< 1321845452 249509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a very clear definition of what a limit is.
< 1321845461 827887 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, perhaps some of the topological formulations of limit might make it click.  or hopefully not make it worse.
< 1321845524 822107 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete stuff, on the other hand, is largely intuitive to me though.
< 1321845533 141155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of the essence of topology is about generalizing the heck out of limits
< 1321845541 90979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome.
< 1321845613 883349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much calculus is there>
< 1321845620 479259 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus: definitely my least favorite math.
< 1321845625 537456 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in one direction, anyway.  category theory has an even more brain-wrecking way. :P
< 1321845652 682145 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I should ask: how many integrals.
< 1321845667 924648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrals seem pretty topological...
< 1321845695 904558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...
< 1321845719 242178 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a summation of all the points in some object.
< 1321845723 640365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically?
< 1321845750 123721 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrals are just fancy continuous summation things. at least that's my intuitive understanding.
< 1321845810 49681 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it depends on which way you generalize them.
< 1321845843 983204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait so you can integrate via other things?
< 1321845845 772266 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lebesgue integration tries to remove as much as possible of continuity requirement
< 1321845851 604898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the
< 1321845877 988098 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh that also generalizes to many topological spaces
< 1321845953 46668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's via measure theory.  you're not going to see that in a basic topology course.
< 1321845977 131780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding was that basic topology is a lot of set theory.
< 1321845981 347069 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321845995 173248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe like... relations?
< 1321846010 555447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a homeomorphism is a kind of relation right?
< 1321846018 845699 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bijection
< 1321846031 580495 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a function in particular
< 1321846063 273941 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "homeomorphic" is a relation between topological spaces
< 1321846078 857091 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it says there's a homeomorphism between them)
< 1321846102 545286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321846111 387531 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess there's a slight ambiguity in using the term "homeomorphism" for either
< 1321846119 399056 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the bijective quality means that each element is equivalent to one other in the other space.
< 1321846200 892580 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although there is not necessarily (i.e. rarely) a _unique_ homeomorphism
< 1321846206 62537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and homeomorphism is the isomorphism of topological spaces, because one-to-one equality is a good way for sets of things to be isomorphic.
< 1321846235 928617 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sort of yeah
< 1321846243 455801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in no way is that a formal statement of things :P
< 1321846269 97458 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra requirements of what kind of bijection it is are important too, otherwise you just get a test for cardinality
< 1321846274 118364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all isomorphisms necessarily bijective?
< 1321846308 221549 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in a general category they're not necessarily _functions_
< 1321846316 580691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mappings.
< 1321846321 138042 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1321846331 822241 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapping usually is a synonym for function
< 1321846334 400296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...
< 1321846340 43401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a more general thing.
< 1321846344 281953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *just morphisms
< 1321846365 858583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is a morphism besides a function.
< 1321846369 361255 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really encountered an example.
< 1321846391 225724 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there _might be_ a terminology for mappings that aren't functions.  there usually is some way to generalize things.
< 1321846420 748847 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notion of morphism recurs in much of contemporary mathematics. In set theory, morphisms are functions; in linear algebra, linear transformations; in group theory, group homomorphisms; in topology, continuous functions, and so on.
< 1321846427 471147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but those are all just different kinds of functions. :P
< 1321846458 691074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1321846463 752074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :relations can be morphisms
< 1321846475 562238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1321846476 401762 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a category Rel (iirc)
< 1321846484 202309 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :relation is a generalization of functions right?
< 1321846501 99492 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or functions are a special case of relations
< 1321846505 34344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321846552 894149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... morphisms /are/ relations then (as far as we know)? or... is there another example that makes this not true?
< 1321846605 335583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as far as we know" meaning that there isn't anything that's been called a morphism that isn't some kind of relation.
< 1321846666 384852 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are the categories of partial orders, for which the morphisms are _elements_ of relations, or pairs really
< 1321846712 311290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321846715 219387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say the order of natural numbers, with objects the numbers and morphisms pairs of numbers (m,n) with m <= n
< 1321846735 395029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321846753 921384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial orders are really interesting.
< 1321846761 171693 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1321846764 685501 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :category theory!
< 1321846786 245432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me they seem like... ordering trees?
< 1321846790 62986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also another more advanced example called the category of topological spaces with morphisms _homotopy_ classes of continuous functions
< 1321846825 323540 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is important because it's, iirc, not even _equivalent_ to a category with function morphisms (a "concrete" category)
< 1321846866 512061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, can partial orderings form a graph?
< 1321846875 719505 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321846877 815811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really make any sense to me.
< 1321846878 464877 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321846888 330350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, excuse me, *cyclic graph
< 1321846903 765229 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no.  antisymmetric law.
< 1321846908 254353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay good
< 1321846910 562619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity is restored.
< 1321846931 884428 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I say "graph" when I actually mean "cyclic graph"
< 1321846937 557175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lol computer science
< 1321846976 530186 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1321847012 387563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poset6.jpg
< 1321847014 965179 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so delicious.
< 1321847064 114660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3,4] < []
< 1321847065 61280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321847131 210472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any standard library Ord instances that are a valid partial ordering of whatever structure it orders?
< 1321847136 407376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not a valid
< 1321847177 392246 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double
< 1321847186 716282 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Float
< 1321847190 861199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what reason?
< 1321847195 360586 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of NaN
< 1321847199 610175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321847206 412982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5/0
< 1321847207 472971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Infinity
< 1321847208 117045 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0
< 1321847208 916576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  NaN
< 1321847213 534972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 > 1
< 1321847214 531664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321847217 636820 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0/0) == (0/0)
< 1321847218 452218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321847222 27518 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1321847232 104353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is weird as fuck. :P
< 1321847237 807450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also makes sense.
< 1321847243 771914 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1321847247 209938 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird enough that it's been considered to change it
< 1321847248 38928 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE 754 sucks balls
< 1321847254 544102 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1
< 1321847255 430427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321847273 841718 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what true claims can you make about something that isn't a number apparently?
< 1321847280 517932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it breaks uses of Ord for things like search trees
< 1321847286 995267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks everything
< 1321847291 797328 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't live in the type
< 1321847303 667347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often does it crop up though?
< 1321847312 414481 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the fucking time, and silently corrupts your shit
< 1321847323 9721 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: whenever someone accidentally puts a NaN into a Data.Map.Map
< 1321847329 982698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just that
< 1321847353 669118 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: granted, you shouldn't be putting doubles into a map or a key into anything really
< 1321847366 144170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you could probably make a SafeFloat with GADTs or something?
< 1321847366 315885 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything you'd want them in an interval tree
< 1321847370 184686 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess
< 1321847375 947534 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just a wrapper around them
< 1321847393 332558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapper how?
< 1321847399 65095 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype
< 1321847405 657453 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :provide a bunch of operations that never produce nans
< 1321847406 875090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just redefine the Floating instance?
< 1321847408 281370 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321847413 537344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would 0/0 produce?
< 1321847417 946839 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error
< 1321847424 606839 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: _or_ a different Ord
< 1321847424 707195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SafeFloat would be compiletime
< 1321847426 460584 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better.
< 1321847431 472727 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that work?
< 1321847438 616537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh...
< 1321847442 450088 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think about that :P
< 1321847460 627926 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a phantom parameter that indicates whether it definitely does not contain a NaN
< 1321847464 609896 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whether the guarantee is lost
< 1321847466 878161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: right
< 1321847474 660530 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then all your num types break
< 1321847479 795852 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not
< 1321847490 29502 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1321847517 540199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about positive and negative infinity?
< 1321847519 621758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do these break things?
< 1321847556 155278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x/0 is a bit more common than 0/0
< 1321847574 149382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(infinitely more common, perhaps? :P )
< 1321847581 155253 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :those at least compare correctly
< 1321847597 361496 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing arithmetic with them is a bit meh but sort of makes sense
< 1321847619 282214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine there are a lot of cases where you'd instead want a zero division error and not an infinity.
< 1321847662 980126 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321847904 324875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321847939 622806 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321847943 401304 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1/0) * (-1/-1)
< 1321848030 596599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's why there's also negative and positive zero
< 1321848071 404128 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1321848083 187204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might have some understanding of the pain of grading papers.
< 1321848091 584322 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/((-1)/0)) < 0
< 1321848092 402591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321848094 79371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :going through these questionnaires and calculating average response.
< 1321848103 547814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == (1/0)
< 1321848104 58266 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321848104 373336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321848110 290519 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == (1/(-0))
< 1321848111 213146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321848116 338704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp
< 1321848128 917994 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see
< 1321848140 272704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == ((-1)/(0))
< 1321848141 155850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321848143 920995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == ((-1)/(-0))
< 1321848144 938610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321848147 64143 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you give a concrete explanation for why zero typically /doesn't/ have a sign?
< 1321848148 11397 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, cool
< 1321848164 673106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could easily have a sign, right? or does that mess up EVERYTHING.
< 1321848199 416101 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because it doesn't in a group/ring/field
< 1321848226 729481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could relay the notion of negative 0 to my 7th grade self...
< 1321848236 855310 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0
< 1321848237 765971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  0
< 1321848245 427863 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0 == 0
< 1321848246 329952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321848251 954085 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0.0 == 0.0
< 1321848252 793760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321848254 719523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1321848259 355075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(-0)
< 1321848260 310115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  -Infinity
< 1321848269 79418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 0.0
< 1321848270 77459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Fractional t) => t
< 1321848282 818911 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet == is broken
< 1321848289 311588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no.
< 1321848296 923501 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet -0 and 0 are broken with respect to each other.
< 1321848300 893490 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 1/(-0)
< 1321848301 887371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Fractional t) => t
< 1321848303 523263 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well of course
< 1321848307 898091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in the common case you actually want -0 and 0 to be equal.
< 1321848316 614164 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already established that for NaN
< 1321848316 993909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in most applications there is only one kind of zero.
< 1321848333 149134 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isNegativeZero 0
< 1321848333 897859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321848338 466618 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isNegativeZero (-0)
< 1321848339 123055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321848345 950893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle isNegativeZero
< 1321848346 268823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isNegativeZero :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool
< 1321848351 522519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay.
< 1321848373 356204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle RealFloat a => a -> Bool
< 1321848373 960975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isDenormalized :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool
< 1321848374 189239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isIEEE :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool
< 1321848374 234642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isInfinite :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool
< 1321848458 952382 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src RealFloat
< 1321848459 301408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. That's something I cannot allow to happen.
< 1321848462 78947 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1321848476 675391 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a long list of methods
< 1321848496 296555 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle RealFloat
< 1321848496 599822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude class (RealFrac a, Floating a) => RealFloat a
< 1321848496 992251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Text.Lazy.Builder.RealFloat module Data.Text.Lazy.Builder.RealFloat
< 1321848497 37607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Text.Lazy.Builder.RealFloat realFloat :: RealFloat a => a -> Builder
< 1321848508 703505 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1321848521 482389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: interestingly only 35% of respondents to my questionnaire reported that one of their professors had incorporated Linux into a project or homework assignment
< 1321848533 927806 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndz\
< 1321848536 693578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :58% said that their professor /mentioned/ Linux as part of a lecture.
< 1321848570 821572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my proposal is on incorporated Linux education into the curriculum at our university)
< 1321848574 887530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incorporating
< 1321848707 711832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo Updelbrot
< 1321848708 112342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321848800 630040 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321848859 988278 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps CakeProphet 
< 1321848860 249833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1321848875 366296 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321848979 2772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wonder if we can formulate a definitive count of how many Homestuck characters are Mary Sue-like?
< 1321849022 119717 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actual Mary Sues, but having traits of Mary Sues, perhaps as a parody.
< 1321849023 221163 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if most of the characters are Mary Sue-like, they start to equalize
< 1321849054 197289 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfecto the Magnificent
< 1321849092 873597 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Jade and Jake start out with ridiculous gadgetry
< 1321849095 634894 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that continues to grow.
< 1321849136 391773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, in the case of Jade it did
< 1321849143 510165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone has tried to make a comic with many recurrent characters that are _all_ mary sues
< 1321849144 187305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do not know what happens with Jake yet.
< 1321849168 719335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MSPA is pretty close.
< 1321849173 870497 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321849178 610043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er homestuck
< 1321849179 410130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1321849241 75220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the later acts of homestuck kind of do a lot of parodying of indulgent fantasy fiction, to my perspective.
< 1321849336 367398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each of the now 18 kids (soon to be 20) that have been introduced, each of them have all sorts of quirky interests and talents that you might find in a poorly written fan fic.
< 1321849904 45796 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321850787 254017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: question
< 1321850796 255739 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\f x -> if x > 0 then x * f (x-1) else 1) 5
< 1321850797 117852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  120
< 1321850802 22780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is non-strict about that function?
< 1321850845 853948 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually loop if you give it just _one_ argument :P
< 1321850856 459415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1321850859 282886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321850878 945690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, currying is non-strict?
< 1321850883 652688 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321850893 447958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense.
< 1321850896 698373 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't forcing f unconditionally
< 1321850992 590836 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it should usually give you a "x * f (x-1)" thunk.
< 1321851023 120989 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan pretty much explained it.
< 1321851032 265007 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictness analysis might change that slightly, but I don't think GHC's going to turn that into f (x-1) `seq` x * f (x-1).
< 1321851043 275815 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1321851048 214893 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleeeh
< 1321851049 69016 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: * /is/ strict you know.
< 1321851052 391351 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even about strictness actually
< 1321851069 468448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the code is not actually evaluated in regards to the infinite recursion of fix.
< 1321851070 809754 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :not strictly about strictness, anyway
< 1321851094 829392 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ah. Well. Duh.
< 1321851126 21544 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x-> reads \f->\x->... *Clearly* there's not much evaluation you can do of an unapplied lambda.
< 1321851150 570594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it technically non-strict?
< 1321851180 79504 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f x -> undefined) undefined `seq` "Sure"
< 1321851180 929983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "Sure"
< 1321851194 998630 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321851195 788103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321851201 196093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :its function application
< 1321851202 964334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being non-strict
< 1321851236 500350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er...
< 1321851238 45659 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f x -> undefined) undefined
< 1321851239 33608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a)
< 1321851239 407064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1321851241 433631 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good times.
< 1321851265 402784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f x -> undefined) $! undefined
< 1321851266 315362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Pattern syntax in expression context: f x -> undefined
< 1321851271 67293 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f x -> undefined) $! undefined
< 1321851271 985084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a)
< 1321851272 271215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1321851274 893678 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> undefined) `seq` "Sure" -- actually it reduces to this conceptually
< 1321851275 678507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "Sure"
< 1321851297 667713 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so then...
< 1321851303 718841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/functions/ are just non-strict. :P
< 1321851312 519390 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321851322 145476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... obvious. :>
< 1321851327 414630 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined) should in theory be _|_, but due to seq isn't?
< 1321851333 402633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321851335 976838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no...
< 1321851339 765185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined) is not _|_
< 1321851344 488759 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> undefined)
< 1321851345 344295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a)
< 1321851345 691899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1321851347 493121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see?
< 1321851353 801687 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined x) should be
< 1321851357 373162 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't
< 1321851362 267003 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weak head normal form, in the original lambda calculus sense
< 1321851382 970348 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ahhhh
< 1321851383 714888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1321851390 378558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense.
< 1321851406 146057 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sure it is.
< 1321851414 630679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure what is what?
< 1321851416 991132 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_
< 1321851419 555360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321851420 9585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321851420 883887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1321851421 608122 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321851421 653575 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seqism in this channel?
< 1321851424 327599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, without seq there would not be any way in haskell to get to evaluating a function without applying it
< 1321851464 273070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why is the value (\x -> undefined) _|_?
< 1321851476 597167 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321851479 331558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why is the value (\x -> undefined) ==  _|_?
< 1321851484 246162 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not == _|_
< 1321851489 34619 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No instance Eq (a -> b) blah blah
< 1321851503 28217 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's indistinguishable from _|_ unless you have seq. Which you don't.
< 1321851507 372718 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321851537 929325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't really understand how.
< 1321851546 131386 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nominally, you would want two functions that give exactly the same result when applied to any argument to also _be_ the same.  and (\x -> undefined) whatever = undefined whatever, always
< 1321851553 558288 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well -- how do you force it, other than by applying it?
< 1321851626 979133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 < oerjan> > (\x -> undefined) `seq` "Sure" -- actually it reduces to this  conceptually
< 1321851638 692250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but then why is this not _|_ as well?
< 1321851732 598288 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> undefined)
< 1321851733 704104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a)
< 1321851733 974747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1321851759 940096 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my mind this is forcing (\x -> undefined)   (I'm just going to call it const undefined now)
< 1321851782 890584 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because if the undefined was a more complicated expression that could not be detected as always undefined, then there would be no way to show it without having an x to apply it to
< 1321851835 254768 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say \x -> ...search for a counterexample to goldback's hypothesis...
< 1321851844 777090 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*goldbach
< 1321851889 747976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically (\x -> undefined) is _|_ because halting problem? :P
< 1321851892 550941 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, _if_ that search never halts, you want that to be equivalent to \x -> undefined
< 1321851919 258711 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is _not_ _|_
< 1321851930 999072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.... wait what.
< 1321851971 483695 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my argument here was that const undefined is in fact not _|_
< 1321851972 992030 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way to make a compiler that treats \x -> ...anything _actually_ undefined  as equivalent to undefined
< 1321851987 986043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321851998 469099 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_given_ that functions can be evaluated without applying them
< 1321852008 877838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is only possible because of seq
< 1321852015 182708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321852018 7356 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense.
< 1321852040 963746 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was being argued that const undefined was virtually indistinguishable from bottom.
< 1321852045 348744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever.
< 1321852067 67598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, unless you have seq
< 1321852067 595127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321852068 317331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then
< 1321852074 555100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used seq and was confused, ha ha. ha ha ha
< 1321852094 826116 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be using pseq as semicolons
< 1321852096 181065 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:)
< 1321852109 127914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle pseq
< 1321852109 575000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc.Sync pseq :: a -> b -> b
< 1321852109 779561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc pseq :: a -> b -> b
< 1321852109 825013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel pseq :: a -> b -> b
< 1321852151 565622 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, like seq, except forces its first argument to be evaluated first
< 1321852160 183930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before evaluating the second
< 1321852172 360942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't aware that was semantically different from seq. :P
< 1321852182 465581 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _semantically_ different
< 1321852203 880766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, order of evaluationally different? :P
< 1321852207 346277 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not denotationally
< 1321852260 24400 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't learned about semantics...
< 1321852351 533606 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there because the denotational semantics does not _actually_ say anything about evaluation order, and ghc actually rearranges things that are denotationally equivalent when optimizing, so _sometimes_ seq ends up evaluating its arguments in the unexpected order
< 1321852363 590920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321852379 960347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I still don't see how const undefined is virtually indistinguishable from bottom unless seq is involved.
< 1321852400 496342 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well const undefined x = undefined  always, right?
< 1321852412 94764 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which = undefined x
< 1321852414 22822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321852441 512188 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the _only_ way you can distinguish functions is by applying them to arguments, const undefined is indistinguishable from undefined
< 1321852482 531444 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with seq is that it allows you to distinguish undefined :: X -> Y from (\x -> undefined x) :: X -> Y
< 1321852489 415577 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that actually evaluating const undefined doesn't produce bottom, which I'm assuming is where seq comes into play.
< 1321852501 573974 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321852542 411469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically fix f is the only way to determine bottomness
< 1321852550 706325 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1321852562 633744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (const undefined)
< 1321852563 423406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: Prelude.undefined
< 1321852568 692282 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (const x) = x
< 1321852569 552003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `='
< 1321852569 840760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look const undefined is bottom
< 1321852578 54568 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix . const = id
< 1321852591 41312 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't look at arbitrary values and ask "Is it bottom"
< 1321852600 400540 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you've solved the halting problem
< 1321852610 692709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or unless I evaluate it with fix :P
< 1321852612 858610 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can catch some kinds of bottoms, which is what I do in the spoon package
< 1321852617 159045 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: fix isn't doing anything for you there
< 1321852637 55725 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id undefined
< 1321852637 989057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: Prelude.undefined
< 1321852638 575206 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: fix determines strictness, not bottomness
< 1321852640 706029 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look, it's undefined!
< 1321852659 434163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+) 1  is a perfectly nonbottom function, but fix ((+) 1) is bottom
< 1321852667 918965 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right.
< 1321852676 355791 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not necessarily
< 1321852683 52946 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let isBottom _ = False
< 1321852684 180906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1321852684 226248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was just getting strictness and bottom confused :P
< 1321852685 211767 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Integer blah
< 1321852688 374018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321852692 507716 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, hehe
< 1321852700 537772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage spoon
< 1321852700 818779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/spoon
< 1321852711 652033 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :teaspoon :: a -> Maybe a
< 1321852727 247698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the power of bottom is yours
< 1321852729 979942 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's teaspoon, I don't know if I want to know what tablespoon is.
< 1321852730 503475 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also it's not necessary to use fix, all you need is to apply it to undefined
< 1321852739 126064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoon :: NFData a => a -> Maybe a
< 1321852740 468067 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Does it catch any _|_ which throws an exception?
< 1321852745 217955 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a value being bottom /does not/ determine whether or not your program halts.
< 1321852749 751397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when its evaluated.
< 1321852752 836870 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weakHeadNormalSpoon
< 1321852754 55185 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, exceptions that were deemed to be useful
< 1321852763 66908 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful?
< 1321852780 407636 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: binary, for example, provides no way to recover from errors
< 1321852789 146730 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of libraries throw error when they shouldn't
< 1321852792 665451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought bottom was all about termination.
< 1321852795 478305 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoon lets you make them behave nicely
< 1321852795 992229 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it catch e.g. <>?
< 1321852798 217973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, lack thereof
< 1321852800 452653 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: nah
< 1321852803 221823 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw.
< 1321852817 179084 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some _|_ checker you have. Doesn't even catch <>.
< 1321852827 754503 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> really doesn't happen all that often
< 1321852827 890710 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321852832 97647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>?
< 1321852841 698469 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: an infinite loop in your program
< 1321852843 660913 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that when BLACKHOLE is reached when evaluating BLACKHOLE?
< 1321852849 86411 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321852853 228420 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1321852854 435522 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a non-threaded runtime
< 1321852856 916034 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's about "normal" termination, so exceptions like undefined also count
< 1321852864 456650 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool
< 1321852866 845928 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was typing up an elaborate explanation, but you just can't fool people these days.
< 1321852868 535645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, returning, so to speak.
< 1321852879 328619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a value that is bottom does not produce a normal form.
< 1321852881 820162 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, keep doing it, I'll bet it's funny
< 1321852890 412442 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is demotivated.
< 1321852914 327162 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if you can give it the type forall a. a, then it's definitely a bottom even if it doesn't loop
< 1321852918 444397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and (\x -> undefined) does not produce a normal form, right?
< 1321852929 493766 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not when applied
< 1321852941 698958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. right
< 1321852947 571939 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is impatient for April 1st
< 1321852956 577800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official release of my Haskell tutorial
< 1321852965 131791 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> x x) (\x -> x x)
< 1321852969 612225 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :embrace the power of the loop!
< 1321852972 739011 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not if it's unsafeCoerce something!
< 1321852983 676263 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love (\ x -> x x) (\ x -> x x)
< 1321852984 980935 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x)
< 1321852988 192127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321852988 492454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321852996 630750 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's right, go ahead, kill lambdabot
< 1321852998 821162 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks lambdabot
< 1321853003 158212 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (\x -> undefined) can be rewritten further, right?
< 1321853007 427632 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Thambdabot?
< 1321853018 976849 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: why are you focussing on const undefined so much?
< 1321853024 404227 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumbdabot
< 1321853026 901539 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: because it's the example that confuses me.
< 1321853035 88403 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have any special behavior at all
< 1321853048 665539 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It's the only strict function that doesn't force its argument!
< 1321853056 624566 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of special.
< 1321853060 729485 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well if you're using unsafe functions, obviously you've reached bottom already
< 1321853070 123028 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's true. :-(
< 1321853072 523575 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wouldn't call it strict
< 1321853077 498434 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION injects some more _|_
< 1321853086 500620 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: No?
< 1321853092 753799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's the general case of not having a normal form when applied, which is what is confusing me.
< 1321853093 582622 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What definition do you use for "strict", then?
< 1321853102 214749 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because we test against undefined to talk about strictness, doesn't mean returning undefined makes something strict
< 1321853116 723050 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I thought a strict function was a function f such that f _|_ = _|_
< 1321853142 936149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: so it's actually application of undefined to a value that determines if it's bottom?
< 1321853158 987474 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's whether it doesn't terminate when evaluated
< 1321853168 532153 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: You sort out this mess yourself
< 1321853172 554499 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321853175 657468 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, where it doesn't return.
< 1321853177 651067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand.
< 1321853179 365071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/where/whether/
< 1321853199 194942 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it feels wrong to say that when something is const undefined, it's strict
< 1321853214 694489 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I thought this was a classic example in #haskell.
< 1321853219 256039 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1321853219 405605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's not.
< 1321853240 604853 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of talking about strictness was to evaluate what it did to its arguments
< 1321853244 744629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that clearly does nothing to its argument
< 1321853249 299599 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that definition seems unsatisfactory
< 1321853283 435915 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've said the same thing before.
< 1321853289 741240 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But denotationally _|_ is _|_.
< 1321853292 577074 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1321853292 983401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is bottom, because it can't produce a normal form. const undefined becomes (\x -> undefined) which is not a normal form.
< 1321853297 859030 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "strict" is defined denotationally.
< 1321853315 77296 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how is it not?
< 1321853354 470813 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I had this discussion a year or so ago with people regarding spoon and why the denotation view of strictness is bullshit because we can actually distinguish things operationally, and people should stop masturbating to denotation
< 1321853366 199388 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321853373 421381 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Don't let conal hear you say that!
< 1321853377 359011 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321853379 295495 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in vague agreement.
< 1321853385 425133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: hmmm, well is undefined x considered a valid reduction of (\x -> undefined)?
< 1321853391 667755 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321853393 774897 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no application
< 1321853396 87808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there you go.
< 1321853397 18400 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand this is such a corner case that it doesn't really matter.
< 1321853397 512478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321853400 915064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's normal form
< 1321853406 328279 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same way (\x -> 5) is
< 1321853415 184096 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't beta reduce a lambda without an application
< 1321853437 42245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait
< 1321853438 851926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is :P
< 1321853445 908029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no term
< 1321853446 3768 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is the one I keep talking about
< 1321853448 405772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined x)
< 1321853448 585465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it reduced to.
< 1321853455 99534 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reduces
< 1321853456 327472 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an eta expanded form of undefined
< 1321853462 863564 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be indistinguishable from undefined
< 1321853470 134082 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is not
< 1321853482 737394 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: right right I see nevermind
< 1321853482 946019 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is if you're not seqist.
< 1321853492 82518 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lives in agdaland
< 1321853493 85466 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck seq
< 1321853501 819848 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq has no power over me!
< 1321853505 532292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah evaluation who needs it!
< 1321853505 577475 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :for I have no bottom
< 1321853512 489025 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I evaluate plenty
< 1321853515 230434 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :just never to bottom
< 1321853551 808964 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When copumpkin evaluates an infinite loop, it's never _|_.
< 1321853556 61238 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkinfacts
< 1321853564 563733 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321853566 897586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: is _|_ a normal form?
< 1321853585 236225 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I see
< 1321853593 523478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is entirely meaningless to refer to a value being _|_
< 1321853598 396445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bottom inherently does not have any values.
< 1321853606 833175 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no
< 1321853614 665141 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think we're confusing different uses of _|_ here
< 1321853626 760689 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom is the value of all types
< 1321853631 419426 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321853637 184553 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321853646 539531 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no meaning as a value
< 1321853654 40580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression _|_ is the empty type
< 1321853659 51314 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but types contain values and it's a member of all types
< 1321853659 734101 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, in a different usage
< 1321853664 781148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay.
< 1321853669 122111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell.
< 1321853670 4250 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that interpretation works too, but isn't as clean
< 1321853674 50937 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is the bottom element in the ordering of definedness
< 1321853678 932881 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unrelated uses, it also means false
< 1321853683 939663 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the empty set, by C-H
< 1321853690 160015 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn overloaded symbols
< 1321853698 584719 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: _|_ is false in relation to decision problems right?
< 1321853713 187515 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in agda, it's just used as a general falsity
< 1321853718 603575 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an empty set
< 1321853727 637910 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also call an initial object in a category _|_
< 1321853738 632255 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does tie it back with the bottom element in the ordering of definedness
< 1321853751 81751 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're different sorts of categories
< 1321853783 277651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the terminal object ‾|‾?
< 1321853848 383191 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :⊤⊥
< 1321853859 207681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me "a function that cannot return a value has the return type of bottom" is similar to saying "there is no term that this term can reduce to" but I'm pretty sure they're separate and completely unrelated.
< 1321853892 433238 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one usage, _|_ is a _value_ or something that resembles a value, and it inhabits all types
< 1321853900 544645 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I was already doing a Unicode search anyway. But for the sake of tradition I decided to stick with the three-character version.
< 1321853905 242017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: the Haskell usage right?
< 1321853905 700542 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :to talk about the semantics of the language, an ordering of values is introduced
< 1321853912 191027 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _|_ is considered to be less than all other values
< 1321853913 482222 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321853924 989938 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people talk about haskell maintaining monotonicity
< 1321853929 228409 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would ‾|‾ mean in Haskell?
< 1321853938 199865 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that functions only ever decrease in definedness
< 1321853943 549043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict ones, anyway
< 1321853987 604551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: clearly the most defined value :P
< 1321854067 665607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: okay so.... are terms of type _|_ all normal forms?
< 1321854069 229797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321854075 794242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shachaf: //
< 1321854088 792690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that all terms have an associated type.
< 1321854204 180275 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what is meant by "_|_ inhabits all types" is that _|_ is a subtype of all types, similar to how the empty set is a subset of all sets.
< 1321854213 617947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, _|_ contains no values.
< 1321854228 413036 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ isn't a type.
< 1321854234 386748 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a value.
< 1321854241 912693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1321854243 598996 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool is inhabited by three values: True, False, and _|_
< 1321854257 141521 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore you can say True :: Bool, False :: Bool, undefined :: Bool
< 1321854262 88234 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or x :: Bool; x = x, or whatever.
< 1321854265 548716 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because haskell is non-strict, so all values might be arbitrarily complex calculations that do not terminate
< 1321854286 829377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321854313 579046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in Haskell, thunks count as values, even though they may return nothing.
< 1321854361 395695 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but no, _|_ really is a type.
< 1321854364 762301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise.
< 1321854375 311762 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a type if you overload the symbol to also mean a type
< 1321854383 447667 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this context, it's meaningless to call it a type
< 1321854387 386035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about in type theory
< 1321854390 547298 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a crocodile if you overload the symbol to also mean a crocodile.
< 1321854391 88372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom is the empty type.
< 1321854432 303655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1321854435 244899 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we typically don't call it bottom in that context
< 1321854437 883612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that in Haskell values can include things that are not in a normal form.
< 1321854449 334642 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're unrelated in this context
< 1321854469 750080 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of non-strictness as much more reasonable than strictness.
< 1321854479 253433 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's the default way of thinking of things or if all the Haskell got to me.
< 1321854502 975238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: depends on the context.
< 1321854533 9146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most of the history of programming, non-strict as reasonable is certainly not the default way of thinking about things.
< 1321854540 183748 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in math, sure.
< 1321854634 520751 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the context of functions.
< 1321854695 413134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically I think the value _|_ that's referred to in Haskell is completely different from the mathematical meaning of _|_ as a type. it becomes useful to think about _|_ as a value precisely because non-strictness allows you to manipulate values that do not actually return any result.
< 1321854734 828905 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I just like my eta-equivalence, man.
< 1321854737 927446 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I hate seq.
< 1321854851 894928 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's because, as I keep saying, it isn't being used as a type there
< 1321854858 377449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: right.
< 1321854860 422492 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want the mathematical backing to its usage there, look in order theory
< 1321854874 467847 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the category usually used to model haskell's behavior is CPO\bot
< 1321855105 591904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> undefined)
< 1321855106 648101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a. t -> a
< 1321855155 850330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (undefined, undefined)
< 1321855156 896153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (a, a1)
< 1321855161 354796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh.
< 1321855179 391888 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is easily amused.
< 1321855189 112614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurts.
< 1321855189 796351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321855218 687416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined doesn't have the same type as undefined.
< 1321855229 646120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can.
< 1321855233 446418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't have to.
< 1321855305 173230 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's universally quantified
< 1321855307 906053 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (5, 5)
< 1321855308 958185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. (Num t, Num t1) => (t, t1)
< 1321855318 185382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321855357 816587 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a,b) = (forall a. a, forall b. b)
< 1321855415 610873 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fair  to say that the value _|_ has the type _|_
< 1321855427 151211 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> r) -> r = ((forall a. a) -> (forall b. b) -> r) -> r
< 1321855434 377557 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric := (forall a b. a -> b -> r) -> r ?
< 1321855442 159459 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1321855473 23354 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm.
< 1321855479 898910 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would that correspond to in non-CPS?
< 1321855521 816942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn forall a b. (a -> b -> r) -> r
< 1321855522 292477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized.
< 1321855525 275581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno.
< 1321855526 64435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321855590 363529 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: AAAH
< 1321855595 80669 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what?
< 1321855601 160659 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell does not have a _|_ type
< 1321855605 75585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: sure it does.
< 1321855609 169101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not written anywhere.
< 1321855613 74876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1321855615 835739 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :all types are inhabited
< 1321855628 561096 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is _|_, in this case, weirdly. :P
< 1321855631 167912 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ : forall a. a
< 1321855636 230581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321855645 624812 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is not inhabited, and it's a type error to say that it is
< 1321855647 883824 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the two are obviously not equivalent.
< 1321855659 609023 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is not a type, and values are not inhabited
< 1321855661 753060 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inhabited?
< 1321855667 921022 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set that contains elements
< 1321855670 542367 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does data Foo count as inhabited?
< 1321855675 518998 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321855685 679797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it contains _|_!!! :P
< 1321855692 513018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Z = Z Z
< 1321855707 238497 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains as many inhabitants as data Foo does
< 1321855716 605406 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought newtype was strict?
< 1321855716 932573 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An infinite number!
< 1321855731 605908 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A newtype's constructor is strict, yes.
< 1321855741 369127 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't ever construct that newtype.
< 1321855750 614794 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix Z
< 1321855760 21571 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or undefined
< 1321855763 51044 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they give the same answer
< 1321855770 258014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so for newtype Newtype = Newtype MyType
< 1321855771 326461 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Denotationalist!
< 1321855782 442370 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ismist!
< 1321855783 575273 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't get both Newtype _|_ and _|_, just _|_?
< 1321855787 845214 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so high-and-mightily operational now, are we?
< 1321855806 693380 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't distinguish undefined and fix Z
< 1321855814 322820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NewType _|_ is _|_
< 1321855818 996845 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoon
< 1321855832 578253 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1321855834 277718 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321855841 98481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, indeed, unlike if data was used instead of newtype, where NewType _|_ would be distinct from _|_
< 1321855854 638883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.
< 1321855861 868687 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nope?
< 1321855871 763313 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In data Z = Z Z, Z undefined =/= undefined
< 1321855876 257972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought strictness was irrelevant to _|_
< 1321855881 37119 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all
< 1321855885 555888 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1321855908 542316 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know I think I've fatigued my brain muscles trying to wrap my head around this.
< 1321855925 34456 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you talking about _|_ the type or _|_ the crocodile?
< 1321855932 900324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crocodile.
< 1321855936 17923 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1321855937 333036 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :krokodil
< 1321855943 427301 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the crocodile doesn't care about strictness.
< 1321855969 719430 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back in Haskell land where the empty type is not a type.
< 1321855981 641790 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, empty type doesn't exist
< 1321855991 737739 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's (), which contains () and _|_
< 1321855992 118898 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so.
< 1321856002 628368 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :() is the anti-_|_
< 1321856008 818792 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOP!
< 1321856019 596290 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgaToemGkY
< 1321856049 62066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: saying that the empty type does not exist is kind of like saying the empty set does not exist.
< 1321856051 120046 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, kind of noisy.
< 1321856057 117748 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No. We're talking about Haskell.
< 1321856061 197863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right
< 1321856072 821741 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is not pure math.
< 1321856073 161593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:12 < CakeProphet> I'm back in Haskell land where the empty type is not a  type.
< 1321856106 662414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not in Haskell, it is elsewhere.
< 1321856113 33397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo said "the empty type does not exist"
< 1321856120 669494 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, only Haskell exists? :P
< 1321856143 573086 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages that have the _|_ type typically don't have the _|_ value :)
< 1321856146 211064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vice versa
< 1321856168 737039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me.
< 1321856170 740698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, from another perspective
< 1321856177 459559 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _|_ type itself is a value in those languages
< 1321856187 224043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a completely different denotation as the _|_ value from haskell
< 1321856212 236251 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Agda, _|_ : Set
< 1321856236 134392 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Agda calls it ⊥?
< 1321856253 691665 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need to understand the denotational semantics of Haskell to understand this bottom business.
< 1321856268 625498 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about denotational semantics
< 1321856294 747251 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from the perspective of type theory, it sounds incredibly silly to say that Haskell has no bottom type.
< 1321856308 225378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about type theory
< 1321856427 493144 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I was wrong to say that the _|_ value has the _|_ type, that's equally silly.
< 1321856465 776187 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in a different type theory it might make sense
< 1321856472 897310 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a subtyping theory with singleton types
< 1321856500 849461 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :only total languages can have empty types
< 1321856610 790211 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best type theory to use when talking about Haskell?
< 1321856662 164514 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, people usually model it in system Fomega
< 1321856676 95303 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really capture the bottom-ness
< 1321856685 567551 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :people usually gloss over that on the type theory level
< 1321856691 127410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321856693 525097 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then try to capture it in semantics
< 1321856708 885688 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying something like Hask = CPO\bot
< 1321856827 855656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: so Haskell is strongly normalizing?
< 1321856833 636286 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321856841 61705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321856871 15633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, I played Dungeons & Dragons game. I managed to break into a debtor's prison, find out who one of them was in debt to and by how much, got arrested, guards trying to take me to the other prison, some wizards tried to restrict me but I stunned them, the guard try to attack me but I stunned them too, dragged them to the federal prison, told them to stand up (but they couldn't), got into a holding cell.
< 1321856883 351559 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: ah but Haskell's type system is.
< 1321856884 374492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321856891 579624 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is a deliberate parts of my plan)
< 1321856893 293674 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321856912 181622 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321856961 566917 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sort of, in theory
< 1321856980 930617 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some weirdnesses in the implementations regarding type aliases and so on
< 1321856988 670323 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they try hard _not_ to normalize
< 1321857061 343579 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321857149 197926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that's... weird.
< 1321857170 17004 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wrote type String = [Char]
< 1321857174 710196 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you presumably like the name String
< 1321857183 409986 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for error reporting right?
< 1321857188 662938 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to see String in type errors where possible
< 1321857211 257114 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321857221 476458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: but it doesn't really change anything to do that.
< 1321857247 562871 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, all types could have a normal form if we wanted them to
< 1321857293 806269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just get a lot more RealWorld and #'s :P
< 1321857367 99298 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not even that
< 1321857372 521054 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is still a newtype
< 1321857383 43092 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you typically wouldn't want to see through those
< 1321857391 27212 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you wouldn't need to
< 1321857615 466127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me
< 1321857639 12318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are boolean values not expressed in Haskell as they are in the LC
< 1321857668 423013 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean as functions?
< 1321857669 260398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do you need Eq and Ord for Bool? I suppose Read and Show are valuable.
< 1321857673 765560 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: yes
< 1321857687 291655 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we have ADTs and they're convenient
< 1321857700 704420 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric : /= on Bool is xor
< 1321857719 176064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :== is biconditional implication :P
< 1321857739 315462 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a == b) c d is pretty convenient too though.
< 1321857759 912062 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what if is for
< 1321857764 73004 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say the same about numbers
< 1321857768 574533 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 (+1) 0
< 1321857772 793364 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be 5!
< 1321857781 753335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5 (+1) 0
< 1321857782 585021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  5
< 1321857785 600703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: oh look it is!
< 1321857787 347649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321857788 171275 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we like to write explicit eliminators
< 1321857789 763420 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321857792 269316 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay fine
< 1321857794 244186 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5 (+2) 0
< 1321857795 223584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  5
< 1321857796 133142 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be 10
< 1321857819 507779 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would expect shachaf to set that sort of trap
< 1321857831 175639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as convenient as Bool being church booleans I think.
< 1321857845 635887 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You could say the same about floating point numbers.
< 1321857851 816967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what copumpkin wants
< 1321857852 503569 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *please* don't. Please.
< 1321857858 118212 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do I want?
< 1321857862 705166 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have what I want
< 1321857864 686227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, having instances for bool is probably more practically useful, especially considering that if statements aren't really troublesome enough to need replacing by regular function application
< 1321857867 532986 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit eliminators in the form of pattern matching
< 1321857868 597901 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, 5 (+2) 0 to be 10
< 1321857871 387668 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what that means
< 1321857878 658051 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :)
< 1321857917 489492 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should totally write a Num instance for (a -> a) that makes fromInteger do that
< 1321857942 53705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that.
< 1321857944 186197 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Make sure you make negative numbers work.
< 1321857951 418637 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that thing too. But the type of Church numbers is   (a -> a) -> (a -> a)    I think.
< 1321857975 114521 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321857991 833066 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a Num instance for (a -> a) -> (a -> a)
< 1321858079 967465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you expect negative numbers to do here? It would only work if there was a type that can only hold bijective functions (something I have asked for in the past).
< 1321858108 872135 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a
< 1321858113 604470 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_, clearly
< 1321858116 550308 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :one approach to the negatives
< 1321858131 719069 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot an a
< 1321858149 934196 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> (a -> a)
< 1321858154 562398 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :bettar
< 1321858217 704744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes it could be, if you do    fromInteger x | x < 0 = error "Negative church numbers is not allowed"   but that doesn't really count as "make negative numbers work", I think.
< 1321858270 709730 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my scheme
< 1321858280 596872 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :n pred succ 0 = id
< 1321858321 306167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pred :-(
< 1321858333 246279 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1321858398 864932 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be oversimplifying it though
< 1321858662 114973 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I realized /= on Bool is xor and have used that in some programs.
< 1321858684 574118 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<= is implication
< 1321858703 794256 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it to make a monoid for Equivalence from the contravariant functors package.
< 1321858713 752869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: O, yes, you are correct. I have not realized that, before.
< 1321858714 955762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> False <= True
< 1321858715 820196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321858720 766152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> True <= Falsee
< 1321858721 573452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `Falsee'
< 1321858723 94801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> True <= False
< 1321858724 42386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321858724 929691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha.
< 1321858735 136902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION easily amused
< 1321858737 97933 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fine, it *would* be implication if data Bool = True | False deriving Ord
< 1321858768 26419 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (<=)) [False, True]
< 1321858768 813293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [True,True,False,True]
< 1321858782 660220 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use other comparison operators, too.
< 1321858840 481756 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (>=)) [False, True]
< 1321858840 635805 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum
< 1321858841 528869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [True,False,True,True]
< 1321858865 308683 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even looks like implication
< 1321858875 53062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: how is it not implication?
< 1321858888 355582 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It *would*, if only True < False!
< 1321858911 23003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just reverse the comparison operator.
< 1321858916 89046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (liftA2 (<)) [False, True]
< 1321858917 886591 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (<)) [False, True]
< 1321858918 644437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [False,True,False,False]
< 1321858925 871601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (>)) [False, True]
< 1321858926 693415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [False,False,True,False]
< 1321858969 705571 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (True > True)
< 1321858970 563649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321858976 181328 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (True > False)
< 1321858977 101846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321858984 358072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (False > True)
< 1321858985 260182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321858987 384087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (False > False)
< 1321858988 247203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  True
< 1321859032 191954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not implication again? :P
< 1321859042 567153 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is.
< 1321859054 917111 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But I like the arrow shape.
< 1321859084 372423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, *too bad*
< 1321859097 685980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (->) = id in id -> 2
< 1321859098 490077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `->'
< 1321859100 141864 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321859127 590440 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet isn't satisfied with (->) working for types and kinds.
< 1321859133 245812 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be a value-level operator too.
< 1321859139 309740 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes!
< 1321859170 572926 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what would it apply to? (-3)-types?
< 1321859179 138267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = id in id --> 2
< 1321859179 993312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2
< 1321859199 44805 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I ended up not fully making sense of dolio's slides.
< 1321859203 472550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = =< in True --> False
< 1321859204 329706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `=<'
< 1321859208 458969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (=)< in True --> False
< 1321859209 132920 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh?
< 1321859209 450831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `='
< 1321859209 881888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1321859214 96029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (=<) in True --> False
< 1321859215 167594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `=<'
< 1321859216 63239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tired
< 1321859224 53878 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some classes that you can list all values of some types, including Bool and () and Zero (a uninhabited type) and sum and product types of those types, and functions of those types (function type could be, exponent type). Now it can also make Enum, Bounded, Eq, of those specific function types.
< 1321859233 305411 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (<=) in True --> False
< 1321859234 325209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  False
< 1321859239 121376 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Mainly lacking background, I think. It also made more sense when dolio was talking. :-)
< 1321859240 665357 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have a package on hackage that does that too
< 1321859248 51398 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can explain stuff if you want
< 1321859255 564976 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage enumerable
< 1321859255 863308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/enumerable
< 1321859291 557752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (<=); id = (-->) True in map id [False, True]
< 1321859292 570748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [False,True]
< 1321859358 141364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One reason I wanted types holding only bijective functions is to use it to represent equality of numbers in the type level. The other reason is to do some experimenting with reversible programming.
< 1321859369 905298 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It's probably a matter of going over it in detail. Probably everything I want is talked about in one of the many papers on my to-read list. :-)
< 1321859378 537786 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough :)
< 1321859379 999813 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's to-read list is an enumeration of every possible paper.
< 1321859381 832116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, the other type I made to list all value, is Maybe type. It can be used as a successor for numbers in type level
< 1321859394 98815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: reversible programming would be very cool.
< 1321859469 895168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably very very space leaky
< 1321859473 898676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made a Classical class for a few types to make classical logic in types (like Curry-Howard, but classical logic instead of only intuitionistic; since they are restricted to instances of the class, te law of excluded middle could be proven individually for each type)
< 1321859499 999048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it pretty much implies that data is never destroyed.
< 1321859525 194349 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it doesn't necessarily. It just means you need to know how to go backwards
< 1321859529 82383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it doesn't need to be space leaky all the time, since you could have a result which you go backward
< 1321859535 81088 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure how a _type_ of invertible functions would get checked, though
< 1321859550 287006 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :without you providing an explicit proof that you're bijective
< 1321859624 499632 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, my idea is to restrict what kind of things you can use in its definition, and ensure all outputs are defined for any defined input, and then have an implicit cast from bijective functions to normal functions so that they can be used as normal functions.
< 1321859642 700803 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I mean
< 1321859649 464152 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :f 0 = 0
< 1321859651 659076 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (suc n) = n
< 1321859652 45926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that either involves computing with a function a -> a that is bijective or a -> SomeTypeWithAStoredSomewhere. Basically memory can be deleted if it's no longer by the values that used it to be computed.
< 1321859667 985326 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/by/used by/
< 1321859677 69574 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :my function is not bijective
< 1321859693 70054 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you disallow it if I tried to give it the type of a bijective function Nat -> Nat?
< 1321859721 630824 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, there should also be some way to use it to prove that 1 is unequal to 2, so that you can prove the type    Not (Maybe Zero <-> Maybe (Maybe Zero))     where    data Zero; type Not t = t -> Zero;
< 1321859735 122079 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should come to #agda :)
< 1321859766 309379 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :although no language I know allows you to prove things like that _and_ allows subtyping
< 1321859781 74152 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be what you want for bijective functions
< 1321859827 493442 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It would require things checked at compile time, one thing is that case would be used, and restrictions on ensuring everything in unique; there are way to do that, that I have thought of. Although I might still have made some mistake
< 1321859871 14736 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure it's decidable in general, though. You could probably come up with some good heuristics but you typically want a type system to have an easy mental model
< 1321859892 99629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in agda you could just prove that your function is bijective
< 1321859907 591600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still feels like haskell :)
< 1321859925 677108 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I need to sleep :(
< 1321859932 343013 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One requirement would be that unbounded types could be passed only unchanged, and *must* be passed exactly once to the output if the input contains it.)
< 1321859946 9916 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's substructural typing
< 1321859959 282840 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that most of these languages don't support
< 1321859981 700417 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the secret sauce that we need to make DList ~= List
< 1321860161 104059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, bijective functions would be able to use other bijective functions, but not functions that aren't bijective. Constructors and field names in a newtype are automatically considered bijective.
< 1321860182 14917 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there also ought to be something usable with bijective functions that allows you to access its reverse.
< 1321860248 564868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: perhaps if you could make bijectiveness implicit in the semantics of the language.
< 1321860258 344448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's always guaranteed.
< 1321860333 796837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would extremely memory expensive.
< 1321860369 923318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all data types would have an implicit slot for "everything that was used in creating me"
< 1321860394 265095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, that is kind of what I was trying to explain to make. However, it would be working only at compile-time, and only for functions marked as bijective would have such requirements; however, you could implicitly cast bijective function type to normal function type if you do not need that.
< 1321860405 677715 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The ways I was thinking of, no data types would need such a slot.
< 1321860445 988431 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it would be implicit in the syntax used for making bijective functions, and the compile-time semantics, but not run-time semantics.
< 1321860721 300432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, "everything that was used in creating me" is not really what a mathematical bijective function does anyways!
< 1321860830 838931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right but that's what you would need if you want every value to be reversible without knowledge of a reversing function.
< 1321861033 374596 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not trying to make every value reversible, however. So the type   (Zero <-> Maybe Zero)  (where Zero means uninhabited type and <-> means bijective function) is uninhabited.
< 1321861089 553177 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes.
< 1321861156 411160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowledge of a reversing function would not even be needed at runtime either; because the function to access its inverse would be processed at compile-time to get its reverse, and if it is applied to a variable then the program is adjusted at compile-time to pass both the function and its inverse to the function taking that variable as an argument.
< 1321861208 26469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the question is: can you make any guarantees that  the inverse function is a true inverse.
< 1321861259 735642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type (x <-> x) for a specific x represented as a number can mean the factorial of x when it is used as a number.
< 1321861305 356611 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: With the ideas I was thinking of, the compiler would automatically be able to calculate the inverse if you followed specific rules, where you must follow those rules for the compiler to accept it as a bijective function too.
< 1321861457 800794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, you would have to build it up from a case block without duplicates, without inexhaustive patterns, only other bijective functions can be called, no pattern guards, no undefined/error, and it easily check all outputs are also unique.
< 1321861583 424331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm actually I just got an idea for a very simple graph-based programming language that's reversible.
< 1321861597 468543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also inherently a memory leak. :P
< 1321861629 980070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. you could manually manage memory if you had a way to delete graph nodes.
< 1321861709 260742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a predecessor node (a node that was computed one step previously in the program's execution) does not point to any present nodes, then it can be considered inaccesible; repeat recursively back to the beginning of the program.
< 1321861788 542171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another requirement would be that all variables occur exactly once in the output.
< 1321861853 692186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid operations would include: reverse a node to the node that produced it
< 1321861869 39358 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't actually free any memory ever, another valid operation would be: reverse a single execution step.
< 1321861970 233692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have to examine this further on a later date.
< 1321861973 52950 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night.
< 1321862028 345947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bijective functions form a group.
< 1321862056 995968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, the reversible esolangs Burro and Revaver2pi also have their programs form a group.
< 1321862949 619375 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321862967 173952 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it make sense to represent a GoL grid in Haskell with an infinite 3d data structure?
< 1321862974 545820 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321864917 753397 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a game with this text: "In former times,  friends Skipp, Apple, and the Wedge were camped. Opposing to expectation, as for them they were kidnapped by the foreigners which is supposed to because it exists. They were placed on the underground mission of spacecraft of enormous foreign country.... Before marshmellows burns, it escapes from the body of the captivity and it must help those in order to return to their planet!"
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< 1321866282 496097 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1321866719 735769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1321866720 715197 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ib.skaia.net/post/view/25830 Phantom_Hoover clicky (assuming you're caught up with HS)
< 1321866721 94972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo...........
< 1321866721 762945 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is easily amused
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< 1321869304 168794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bijective function types might also allow some optimizations to be performed that otherwise doesn't be performed.
< 1321869700 521493 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijections?!?!?!?
< 1321869703 86546 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321869705 41361 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1321869715 285775 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopol
< 1321869797 459201 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in modern bijections, it's okay for some values on the domain to map back on the domain.
< 1321869870 821744 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :values of the codomain mapping back on the codomain in the inverse of the function of course has been considered damn hot through the ages.
< 1321869979 198217 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i made it too obvious with the second sentence.
< 1321869994 595477 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean specifically is that all defined input has a valid output, all values of both the input and output types are taken into account, and that there is a different output for each input.
< 1321870070 853287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what a bijection is
< 1321870102 936526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by i i mean everyone here who's not a stupid
< 1321870131 601539 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember the difference between injection and surjection, which is which, but bijection's easy
< 1321870144 903493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you know, but I wanted to be more specific anyways.
< 1321870300 871218 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't
< 1321870388 222581 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijection from X to Y is a function from X to Y which is an injection and a surjection. an injection is a function such that x != y, both in Y, implies f(x) != f(y) and a surjection is such that for all y in Y there exists x in X such that f(x) = y
< 1321870418 741181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijection from X to Y is a function from X to Y which is an injection and a surjection. an injection is a function such that x != y, both in X, implies f(x) != f(y) and a surjection is such that for all y in Y there exists x in X such that f(x) = y
< 1321870421 482067 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :better
< 1321870477 937923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is better than my description
< 1321870549 138173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have many ideas for use of bijective function type; one is to experiment with reversible programming, one is to determine inverses automatically, one is to be able to represent equality of natural numbers in the type system similar to Curry-Howard (but this should also require that there is some way to prove that one is not equal to zero, and so on)
< 1321870848 411631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program for classical logic. I called the uninhabited type Zero. For numbers, you would have, Zero for zero, Maybe for successor, product type for products, sum type for sums, function type for exponents. And then, you also have Zero, product, sum, for logical operation as well, and bijective function type for equality of numbers.
< 1321870851 965194 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sorta stuff might be nice. i also think that's been tried, perhaps succesfully
< 1321870869 215341 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again who cares if it's been done
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< 1321872344 796998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, they're both the same, just going opposite ways.
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< 1321882594 222517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, google changed favicon again?
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< 1321890747 235998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Brumhandle acquired; inbox filled with angry PMs.
< 1321890748 10039 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
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< 1321891267 52383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
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< 1321891864 814061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, fix your ident order dammit.
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< 1321893119 42218 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1321893123 511496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: huh?
< 1321893131 936549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CakeProphet (~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has joined #esoteric
< 1321893132 107459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CakeProphet has quit (Changing host)
< 1321893132 153153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CakeProphet (~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake) has joined #esoteric
< 1321893157 220220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a cloak, but you're identifying after you join the channel, thus spamming and defeating the point of having the cloak.
< 1321893183 324168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you can fix it in XChat by setting the server password, rather than the NickServ password.
< 1321893193 649405 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about irssi? :)
< 1321893253 523282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :access flags
< 1321893255 196365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude remove irssi, aptitude install xchat
< 1321893261 494461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noe
< 1321893262 945513 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :p
< 1321893278 135842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt freenode have access control?
< 1321893283 761999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually even using the server password it does not always make NickServ result right away.
< 1321893305 508369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you program it to not autojoin until the NickServ response?
< 1321893323 794717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a common problem IME.
< 1321893326 931949 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be possible
< 1321893413 920756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another solution is, could you make up a new channel that requires registration to join but redirects to this channel? Would the server even accept such a thing or would it ignore the registration mode in this case?
< 1321893465 363737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the way redirects work, I think it'd redirect people who weren't identified because if you can't get into a channel, default is to redirect you
< 1321893485 625619 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, now that I think of it, yes that is how it works.
< 1321893500 365741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct; redirects only work if you are not identified.
< 1321893553 909709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it is configured by the server operators for permanent redirect.
< 1321893605 616380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, making it work on the client is better way than reconfiguring the server to do that, isn't it? Just use a macro like I described above on the client.
< 1321893729 12495 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys I think I figured out the solution
< 1321893733 456814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not caring.
< 1321893745 477777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the commentary to today's Gunnerkrigg court
< 1321893746 345062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh yes, I can feel it working already.
< 1321893760 121323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because it doubles the volume of join/quit spam.
< 1321893792 142951 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321893794 585482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doubles /my/ volume of join/quit spam
< 1321893819 86479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like one join/quit pair per ever 3 days on average or something. egads!
< 1321893824 177693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*every
< 1321893828 279222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and your name is not one unassociated with join/quit spam.
< 1321893847 456346 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tell your client to ignore the quit message "Changing host" if you want to suppress it from your display
< 1321893882 710174 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321893897 583511 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so wait, the solution is to /not/ identify?
< 1321893901 996655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand what's going on.
< 1321893924 962576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The solution is to identify between connecting to the server and joining channels.
< 1321893940 204542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you connect, join and identify you rehost.
< 1321893941 626472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK; to tell you I don't care much about that either (I don't have a cloak anyways). Cloak can also be used to easily show your identity, without requiring WHOIS or NS INFO (in case you commonly connect with multiple computer)
< 1321893966 848945 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way is to disable the cloak, in case you still want to identify and avoid this join/quit span messages
< 1321893987 634072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi doesn't seem to have any way to do.
< 1321894006 885797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do what?
< 1321894061 230058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :identify before joining channels.
< 1321894086 434168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I join every channel manual via -autosendcmd or something
< 1321894089 782990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manually
< 1321894128 175877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it must have macros, though. Isn't it?
< 1321894149 878111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, sure.
< 1321894171 545822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no macro that I can find just command aliases
< 1321894183 113516 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321894199 935605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no parameters can be given, basically.
< 1321894227 108801 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fix irssi to support macros
< 1321894229 259653 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321894275 845510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ehpdelbreet
< 1321894358 798687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ha. ha. ha. Strider is different than Dave. tee hee. this is UNEXPECTED.
< 1321894395 244754 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/different than/different but similar to/
< 1321894453 524760 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :His autoreply seems similar to fungot
< 1321894454 655971 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: 250000? from factorial? :o) instances of tla running in parallel
< 1321894494 920188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: whose?
< 1321894506 28205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strider's
< 1321894510 751247 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait SPOILERS
< 1321894521 209575 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILY SPOILY SPOILERS
< 1321894533 497815 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PastCakeProphet: SPOILERS
< 1321894541 861196 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOO
< 1321894567 342092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strider is like Rose if Rose were a cool bro.
< 1321894570 429145 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321894588 234385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321894664 40336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SPOILERS NEAR END OF LOG
< 1321894677 393302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILERS ABOUT STRIDER AND AUTO -- ER
< 1321894678 691031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVERMIND
< 1321894681 717801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321894689 179646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I check MSPA before reading the logs.
< 1321894742 903926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a good system
< 1321894839 616203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you enjoy leading last nights conversation?
< 1321894847 156584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1321894866 663856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one
< 1321894867 955683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before this one
< 1321894870 638839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I'm talking a lot
< 1321894915 703262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't finished reading MSPA updates yet.
< 1321895047 182823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sheesh it's like you're human or something.
< 1321895079 502719 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an undisciplined yob.
< 1321895095 55198 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you expected them to be? The gods?
< 1321895138 900693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott should obviously be some kind of machine.
< 1321895151 828990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a robotic teenaged superhero.
< 1321895152 334548 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cola making machine
< 1321895161 123890 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cola is one of Hexham's main industries
< 1321895164 782727 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cola and chipboard
< 1321895168 855297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321895169 820940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1321895182 317667 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fentimans.com/
< 1321895193 856919 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their offices and laboratories are in Hexham
< 1321895195 392297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, Atlanta has got the cola industry /on lock/
< 1321895203 164175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got Coca-Cola and shit.
< 1321895210 418951 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE FENTIMANS
< 1321895218 161372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD I NEVER REALIZED
< 1321895224 170538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except: what the fuck is that?  -clicks-
< 1321895236 68014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as DELICIOUS
< 1321895238 250321 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS COCA-COLA
< 1321895239 810152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1321895277 764186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think instead of going to class today
< 1321895281 29840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to finish this huge paper
< 1321895761 279996 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does recording of D&D game interested you by now?
< 1321895779 503013 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fentimans Curiosity Cola is a lot stronger tasting than Coca-Cola or Pepsi
< 1321895969 423020 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321895974 191462 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi
< 1321895991 951071 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321895999 724861 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, first hit for "linux" is the Ubuntu homepage
< 1321896042 68739 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321896050 259761 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which doesn't mention the word "linux"
< 1321896119 203425 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Official site; Commercially sponsored Debian-derived Linux distribution that focuses on usability, a regular 6-month release cycle, and a ..."
< 1321896122 204545 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um?
< 1321896132 776339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page doesn;t
< 1321896137 540678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither does the page's source
< 1321896145 619238 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The description must come from elsewhere
< 1321896147 140411 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed not.
< 1321896165 31827 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Google is kind of magical
< 1321896173 9353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of magical
< 1321896182 315336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a latent reality warper
< 1321896191 800954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I warp reality every day.
< 1321896203 169215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This summer I wanted to know someone who had similar interests to me and lived near me
< 1321896212 537358 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN SUDDENLY ELLIOTT APPEARED IN MY LIFE
< 1321896219 722666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best friends for life. <3
< 1321896228 411286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WROST EMENIES
< 1321896232 662897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3<
< 1321896254 955078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321896256 628260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how everyone in the UK lives relatively close to each other.
< 1321896274 703437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover doesn't
< 1321896297 719131 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the most populous state in the US is around 2000 miles away from me.
< 1321896298 194100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live pretty near Hexham, actually.
< 1321896318 664299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham party
< 1321896334 227388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should all have a meetu- NO.
< 1321896339 263625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you all.
< 1321896341 799217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 2 of you.
< 1321896348 924938 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to change trains in Newcastle, Carlisle, or Glasgow to get to Phantom Hoover
< 1321896349 605873 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That includes himself)
< 1321896360 979108 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe Middlesborough
< 1321896387 89706 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do all of those places have Haskell compilers named after them?
< 1321896398 729802 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321896401 732210 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321896405 196924 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Glasgow and MIddlesborough
< 1321896424 378366 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: time to get started on the Hexham Haskell Compiler
< 1321896429 354012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :middlesborough haskell compiler
< 1321896430 158630 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321896434 556863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't ais523 live in the North too?
< 1321896439 537379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: birmingham
< 1321896451 401286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham is East Midlands, I believe
< 1321896453 20514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're talking about birmingham, Alabama right? :P
< 1321896458 432528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that in the North I don't know?
< 1321896459 377175 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS TOO FAR SOUTH TO BE NORTH
< 1321896468 405527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :birmingham is in the black hole known only as birmingham
< 1321896486 416228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:58:  shachaf: I got the last exploit by @telling lambdabot to say fungot
< 1321896487 714838 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ( will be, fnord fnord ( that's zero zero) least significant bits of pointers for each node, and find all the prime numbers up to 32-bit, constants can be at least 64 characters long, and a
< 1321896504 433404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "fungot"
< 1321896505 363238 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your keyboard is absent? fnord juhovh minä olisin ainakin fnord fnord fizzien fnord
< 1321896505 962653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "fungot"
< 1321896506 746302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: would also have worked.
< 1321896520 126351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOPE NOT THE SAME
< 1321896530 80765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:20:  ​?where fungot
< 1321896530 161094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:29:  lambdabot?
< 1321896530 215755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:36:  Oh, come on, lambdabot!
< 1321896530 261183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:42:  > "I don't listen to people with 'bot' in their name, IIRC"
< 1321896530 261369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:43:  "I don't listen to people with 'bot' in their name, IIRC"
< 1321896530 916653 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " fill your days with despair in 12 easy steps!" level yet??
< 1321896536 508062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell is like a delayed surpirse of botsploitation
< 1321896537 254495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321896538 53741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's ever said that to ais523 so I guess he's just making it up.
< 1321896547 788724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: HackEgo uses control characters to subvert botloops it'd otherwise cause.
< 1321896568 224328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ais523: "HackEgo" does not contain "bot" :P
< 1321896568 575137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :is
< 1321896572 921511 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: hi
< 1321896580 816875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321896592 877321 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1321896593 540170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dylukes asked 19d 18h 5m 26s ago: haskell awesome?
< 1321896593 813582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet said 56s ago: like a delayed surpirse of botsploitation
< 1321896621 537992 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ?why am I SO CLEVER?!
< 1321896625 303052 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell dylukes yes it is
< 1321896626 186258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1321896628 445131 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?why am I SO CLEVER?!
< 1321896631 749349 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet
< 1321896647 441627 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they're not control characters, they're Unicode.
< 1321896664 751756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:14: -!- ChanServ changed the modes of #esoteric: +o ais523
< 1321896664 877036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:22:  just in case I need to +m the channel for a few seconds to break botloops
< 1321896673 119524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: op abuse, the traditional botloop breaker is an annoyed bot admin
< 1321896690 100260 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, HackEgo being BRILLIANTE
< 1321896700 214944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1321896704 407711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo lambdabot: @so hi
< 1321896706 680319 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so hi
< 1321896707 620792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi not available
< 1321896713 634122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321896713 838624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo lambdabot: @so hi
< 1321896715 785483 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so hi
< 1321896715 890523 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is such a loop, what with it not looping.
< 1321896716 790220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi not available
< 1321896725 318040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You want me to complete it?
< 1321896735 188940 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... maybe? :P
< 1321896735 701885 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321896740 776732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo lambdabot: @so `echo test
< 1321896741 195111 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's lambdabot's fault :P
< 1321896742 681970 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `echo test
< 1321896743 603530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo test not available
< 1321896744 465897 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1321896745 492266 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test not available
< 1321896748 706149 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1321896752 690783 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, still not a loops.
< 1321896757 877956 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still not a loop
< 1321896761 736008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo "lambdabot: @so `cat x; #" >x
< 1321896763 514796 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"lambdabot: @so `cat x; #" >x
< 1321896766 463506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "lambdabot: @so `cat x; #" >x
< 1321896768 454875 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
< 1321896774 156521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'lambdabot: @so `cat x; #' >x
< 1321896775 887024 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321896776 497137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x
< 1321896777 967179 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: x: No such file or directory
< 1321896781 854064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I've read that HTML is an interesting programming language.  (re: learning new languages)
< 1321896782 25168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x
< 1321896783 801412 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `cat x; #
< 1321896784 483267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x; # not available
< 1321896784 851797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1321896786 578444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: x; # not available: No such file or directory
< 1321896788 71740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1321896791 521163 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: :(
< 1321896792 97841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #' >x
< 1321896794 264688 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1321896796 348226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x
< 1321896798 341421 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896799 251252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896801 153786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896802 187122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896804 396575 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896805 319920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896806 519175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also Java, and Visual Basic
< 1321896806 731585 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what is so interesting about it
< 1321896807 443354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896808 351502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896810 106116 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896811 43005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896812 526936 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: cry
< 1321896812 604762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nothing, it's not a programming language.
< 1321896813 132782 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896813 931680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896814 186403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Let it run a bit more :')
< 1321896815 494503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so beautiful
< 1321896815 807433 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896816 710416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896818 622065 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896819 524943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896821 280168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896821 465690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABANDON SHIP
< 1321896822 178704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896823 958925 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896824 999908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896826 108909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is one way to break botloops. So in case someone test the program. There are other ways too, such as the bot operators disconnecting them, or the server operator forcibly disconnecting them.
< 1321896827 27229 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896827 701269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896829 880628 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #
< 1321896830 793371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available
< 1321896832 128036 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321896835 183986 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff
< 1321896835 239051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::')
< 1321896841 215012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip hackego
< 1321896842 633329 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321896843 115694 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame lambdabot on that one.
< 1321896845 219211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done all I can.
< 1321896851 828610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lambdabot is terrible :P
< 1321896855 104291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of its commands prefix with spaces.
< 1321896859 516210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the @source error message doesn't.
< 1321896867 443472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I use it for botloops :P
< 1321896877 572332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but lambdabot has a great reputation for being secure and free from exploits.
< 1321896891 589808 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does HackEgo, but it's so much more spiffy.
< 1321896893 955407 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could program lambdabot to prevent you repeating commands too much by public.
< 1321896919 214396 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, it is Haskell anyways; a function should always have the same result unless the program is changed.
< 1321896919 259683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: smalltalk?
< 1321897002 521856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: @source is not pure :P
< 1321897012 220121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run is pure, but not @source.
< 1321897013 767794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  : parse error on input `,'
< 1321897016 257665 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source
< 1321897017 24281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : not available
< 1321897020 800279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure you can mutate @source's DB.
< 1321897040 331059 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: bye
< 1321897055 195272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Haskell's purity is a lie!
< 1321897058 541084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then record a timestamp of last change, and a timestamp of last query for each channel.
< 1321897121 801713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321897155 905227 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321897173 443199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ andrew12 ? welcome
< 1321897175 984056 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321897190 690940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :are
< 1321897192 560451 :are!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1321897193 113247 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just welcome'd a long-time idler :P
< 1321897193 527334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages.
< 1321897207 702490 :are!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet
< 1321897225 730401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ Gregor ? CakeProphet
< 1321897228 707409 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :>
< 1321897238 110008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's the third welcome andrew12's got.
< 1321897243 14685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He must be feeling so welcome.
< 1321897258 311376 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol
< 1321897280 562254 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What can I say, I don't really contribute anything to this channel except fear, uncertainty and doubt.
< 1321897326 62450 :kmc!~keegan@cpe-74-68-127-232.nyc.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1321897443 350530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland?   No.   whew   we don't have room for more esolangers there.   oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland?   no   Whew.   We don't have room for more esolangers there.
< 1321897446 114943 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :728)  shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland?   No.   whew   we don't have room for more esolangers there.   oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland?   no   Whew.   We don't have room for more esolangers there.
< 1321897587 983807 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321897664 431368 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321897753 175711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ andrew12 ? welcome
< 1321897755 675386 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321897784 829919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:16:44:  in other news: length is stupid. genericLength is good.
< 1321897784 901634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:18:11:  > let x = [1,2,3] in sum x / genericLength x
< 1321897784 956527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:18:12:  2.0
< 1321897793 286743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i don't think we want length to be able to return a complex number.
< 1321897918 433807 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321897973 950760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> genericLength [1,2,3] + (5 :+ 10)
< 1321897975 355944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  8.0 :+ 10.0
< 1321897980 665800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure we do. :P
< 1321898046 412951 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "fnord juhovh minä olisin ainakin fnord fnord fizzien fnord" => "fnord juhovh I would at least be fnord fnord fizzie's fnord".
< 1321898054 375808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: FINALLY YOU'RE HERE.
< 1321898064 956236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Why did you translate that for me?)
< 1321898087 185728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (Well, it was a reply for you, I didn't want to leave you confuzzled.)
< 1321898131 819772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :confizzled. ha ha
< 1321898138 460301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 516K Nov 20 13:19 qwantz.xz
< 1321898142 28483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How can I get this file to you?
< 1321898150 848815 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe email, it's pretty small.
< 1321898160 758138 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is intrigued by the name.
< 1321898170 2128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU SHOULD BE.
< 1321898177 59755 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU... WILL BE.
< 1321898212 626043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sendin'.
< 1321898238 926296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sent; enjoy your "qwantz: Dinosaur Comic transcriptions 2003-2011".
< 1321898241 175490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Comics
< 1321898248 794737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Comics. Just clarifying!
< 1321898254 863690 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cosmics.
< 1321898290 611213 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321898648 292510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: op abuse, the traditional botloop breaker is an annoyed bot admin <--- not op abuse, it's much less disruptive to the channel then waking up a bot admin to ragepart the bot
< 1321898648 950304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it?
< 1321898656 338411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes.
< 1321898661 70970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing.
< 1321898676 22816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly, you're reducing natural disruption! that's _playing god_
< 1321898682 710035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz
< 1321898682 900819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz
< 1321898683 23679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz
< 1321898683 173422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz
< 1321898683 282259 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found.
< 1321898683 767248 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found.
< 1321898683 842880 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found.
< 1321898683 923033 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found.
< 1321898686 194484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIND IT QUICKER
< 1321898697 982170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but reducing disruption is what ops are /for/
< 1321898703 886819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is #esoteric!
< 1321898709 875187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is Freenode!
< 1321898714 470312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're here to facilitate the natural levels of disruption!
< 1321898783 997929 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Quit: oh no I am not DYNAMIC enough
< 1321898801 722779 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321898808 183689 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGSTYLEQUANTZ
< 1321898818 288821 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me want to revive my dormant T-Rex is Lonely Comics >_>
< 1321898828 155809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz
< 1321898828 201252 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
< 1321898828 246707 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, qwantz
< 1321898840 98856 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I love utahraptor!
< 1321898840 742580 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that that is pretty cute! my daily affirmation buys food he doesn't need to know that! that's gross! that dude across the street is thinking " bum
< 1321898846 217522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321898857 511969 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That dude across the street /is/ thinking " bum!
< 1321898868 156529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1321898868 876740 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't think that fixed time a day whenever i have, and as a patron, i find that, with this unusual. i'm guessing... a kabazillion dollars
< 1321898880 97577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i love you
< 1321898880 817335 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are a t-rex, undisputed king, but neither really wants!
< 1321898900 874249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1321898901 646385 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and so: " probably not!" or there could be a picture of a telephone poles, along with t-rex! that's a standard english just to ensure i act like i did before, and perhaps, at the end, to ask me
< 1321898910 320870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fungot's " quoting style" really irritates me.
< 1321898951 276209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that happen
< 1321899034 211553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1321899034 775804 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so i've been down for like, two minutes!! it's all that came to mind. instead, it's an alternate universe, that's " law and order". and it doesn't have to be shakespeare.
< 1321899042 30702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bad pmunctuation handling
< 1321899048 717288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you are best
< 1321899061 559473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo Gregor
< 1321899062 632033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make him
< 1321899063 580906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk again
< 1321899088 836505 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I want your babies.
< 1321899089 527549 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i must have taken up a new page was slow and expensive! why simulate boring microbes galaxies away if we're just interested in one dude on earth? and why simulate this one dude at all, unless you're trying to find out more, as it's such a small thing, but it would be years down the road! okay. i'll do better next time, ok?
< 1321899101 109691 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also:
< 1321899105 220774 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fungot: I want your babies too.
< 1321899105 973309 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i don't have a very good student! we have to go." then, hey presto, you're a muslim! me say this: " what?? sweetcheeks? i'm sorry, i wasn't paying attention!
< 1321899107 692990 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I want your babies too.
< 1321899113 446653 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awwww
< 1321899117 889930 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of bot ignores HackEgo :P
< 1321899146 894387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is a pioneer in bot-ignore technology.
< 1321899147 549534 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that that one incident to say that sentence: it's me god
< 1321899148 946732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show 'em the ignores, fizzie.
< 1321899154 986518 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore
< 1321899155 185870 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot)!
< 1321899158 782543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it?   fizzie: Yes.   There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing.
< 1321899161 674746 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :729)  Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it?   fizzie: Yes.   There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing.
< 1321899193 602564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny?
< 1321899237 952260 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all want to just stick it in the bot.
< 1321899240 302684 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh yeah.
< 1321899243 99923 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick it in that bot.
< 1321899262 217918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321899270 978893 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: YES.
< 1321899277 9837 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1321899296 838092 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | #esoteric: Still a place that prefers INTERCAL to Haskell | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321899297 472659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I actually just skipped to my lines because I assumed they'd be the funny ones.
< 1321899436 56224 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bad qoute reader
< 1321899493 895127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't actually recall a time where you've spoken about Haskell.
< 1321899516 55148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from speaking about how much you prefer C over it (and every other language)
< 1321899579 552857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Gregor.*Haskell
< 1321899604 75520 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-04-08.txt:00:12:56:  (Haskell is usually the wrong language)
< 1321899613 798887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321899629 989903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:15:12: * Sgeo is temporarily a Haskell fanatic
< 1321899639 954924 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uh oh)
< 1321899649 59556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont worry thats from 2010-04-08
< 1321899654 737063 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good
< 1321899661 398816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never been a Haskell fanatic actually.
< 1321899676 392632 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fond admirer perhaps.
< 1321899698 23232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:11:  Isn't Perl implemented in Haskell?
< 1321899699 937351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual quote
< 1321899714 929867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he being srs?
< 1321899723 768984 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume he's talking about Pugs.
< 1321899746 291550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really "Perl"... yet.
< 1321899759 50863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl" is currently Perl 5, in most contexts.
< 1321899779 664763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Pugs will never be "Perl"... yet :P
< 1321899785 559620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right.
< 1321899789 263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been dead for like 5 years?
< 1321899793 340408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say Perl 6 isn't Perl yet.
< 1321899797 982174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently APPARENTLY people are developing it again buuuuuuut
< 1321899815 216371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Perl 6 may also never be "Perl"... yet :P
< 1321899849 953314 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably has something to do with being a complete clusterfuck with no single developer oversight.
< 1321899864 94439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :larry would be the oversight, methinks.
< 1321899880 741582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering he's the one who rejects or accepts all the proposals, or at least did in the early days
< 1321899887 584342 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... hmmm
< 1321899893 834984 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps.
< 1321899907 543773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the apocalypses. or whatever they're called.
< 1321899908 648525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read "largely community driven" to mean that Larry kind of isn't very active.
< 1321899914 977348 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: very early
< 1321899948 114599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001, 2002 isn't THAT early
< 1321899951 753576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1999 is when perl 6 started iirc
< 1321899977 247071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:02:03:  Is it too late to try to get involved with Google Summer of Code?
< 1321899977 292450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:02:14:  THey're probably looking for people who've actually looked at the stuff
< 1321899977 423288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:04:37:  nope; deadline for applications is the 9th
< 1321899977 469269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:05:20:  Ok, but don't I need to have some idea of what I want to do, besides just "I'll do what this organization suggests on their GSoC page"
< 1321899977 469441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:05:23:  ?
< 1321899979 195077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:09:08:  yes you do
< 1321899981 221177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:09:22:  socghop.appspot.com
< 1321899983 202622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:10:18:  I can't just say "I have never even looked at this code, but I'll try doing this suggestion", can I?
< 1321899986 213898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:10:28:  I mean, and get accepted
< 1321899988 232747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm forced to conclude that 2011 > 2010
< 1321900013 482925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1999-2002)/(1999-2011)
< 1321900014 794829 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  0.25
< 1321900025 844231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's 25% earliness :P
< 1321900034 792502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sound logic
< 1321900065 719337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... I guess 75% early.
< 1321900136 195756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this notion of percentages and earliness makes complete sense.
< 1321900139 176076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise.
< 1321900164 305854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_computer
< 1321900173 548396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to make a faster computer and name it OK Computer
< 1321900285 154866 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321900285 237776 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321900285 237916 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321900370 935097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :average speed computer
< 1321900458 97822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it would be the fastest computer in the world, with all of its processing power used to generate really shitty sounding radiohead covers, tribute songs, blog posts, fan fiction, and fan club websites.
< 1321900515 209029 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321900557 738977 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lololol BEST QUOTE EVER X-D
< 1321900571 296436 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I actually kinda like Haskell, but I love hating it more than I like liking it.
< 1321900579 612686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good.
< 1321900583 713836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as it should be.
< 1321900587 792277 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cannot ALL be Haskell fanboys
< 1321900598 494689 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be balance.
< 1321900624 595318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1321900625 437312 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321900648 423297 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair I haven't written anything substantial in it in years.
< 1321900672 318296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how much of a 133t h45k311 h4ck3r are you?
< 1321900673 577821 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay.
< 1321900762 123960 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7tew1apXqc <-- this was written in Haskell
< 1321900762 476186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what was that weird website you found?
< 1321900787 122113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sourcereal.com?
< 1321900796 528946 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1321900802 499435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes!
< 1321900803 241964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like the fade to show HOW REALISTIC it is.
< 1321900809 186236 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's a good site
< 1321900824 722399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also how blue Mt. Hood apparently is
< 1321900830 284787 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gimme a break :P
< 1321900846 240847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Excuse me no???
< 1321900895 503413 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I have a suspicion that zzo is actually the webmaster behind sourcereal.com
< 1321900933 90946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hopefully, that list will give you an idea about what you may learn when reading this cereal page, or, you might find something useful reading other websites." -- zzo
< 1321900962 395205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321900974 407439 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321900977 258498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is very zzoesque
< 1321901002 967529 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :z-zosque
< 1321901048 881183 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi I'll pay you money if you write this paper for me.
< 1321901068 645242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what paper :(
< 1321901073 353416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have to leave like now
< 1321901077 221894 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321901080 123765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only like a 10 page report with questionnaire statistics and two interview transcripts that need to be cited.
< 1321901108 322655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with internet sources. it's a proposal to incorporate more education of linux into my university's curriculum.
< 1321901113 471254 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very, uh, exciting.
< 1321901119 4130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds miserable
< 1321901123 165101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also due today.
< 1321901134 144832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway have fun leaving like now.
< 1321901163 647085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321901168 970945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more upset with lack of programming language/paradigm diversity than lack of linux education (why would you need linux education)
< 1321901171 957990 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1321901174 451415 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving like now
< 1321901182 338853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does anyone have any good "lol linux is totally p0pu14r"
< 1321901183 791948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sources
< 1321901207 989919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, who made the topic ping me?
< 1321901235 436427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well the basic premise is that a) we do not expose students enough to linux environments b) linux expertise has high industry demand
< 1321901248 660309 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321901261 939149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes I agree, but I need to also create a presentation on the topic, and I didn't want to completely bore my non-computer-science audience.
< 1321901262 774127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: counterpoint: linux sucks
< 1321901267 110540 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What school is it that doesn't ...
< 1321901272 569081 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, that's irrelevant
< 1321901279 334654 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my school. IT'S SEKRET
< 1321901285 518107 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and, they do, but not very much
< 1321901295 210626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its georgia tech.. it hink??)
< 1321901298 21814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321901299 706513 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Of the two universities I've been at, two have had students use Linux primarily from day one.
< 1321901299 836466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321901301 877065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is it from georgia here
< 1321901304 451273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive
< 1321901306 861561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you could mention Linux's share in the server market
< 1321901307 262366 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CS students)
< 1321901310 582420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen that uninvinvinvinersity name in here before
< 1321901311 640950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to impress people
< 1321901316 805157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes that's good.
< 1321901340 697668 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: southern polytechnic state university. it's like the shitty version of GA tech that's cheaper and easier to get into.  :)
< 1321901419 607701 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo HackBot is proof of why Linux is important.
< 1321901422 108346 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackBot is proof of why Linux is important.
< 1321901431 572565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's supposedly geared more towards "practical" education. aka helping people get jobs.
< 1321901440 78552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the "people use linux" point is the important one.
< 1321901440 161744 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1321901525 937030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this.
< 1321901565 726889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not in the US. :P
< 1321901603 215910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this.
< 1321901605 601996 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :730)  the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this.
< 1321901620 664210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see our "cs" department. they have a course called computer science and the society.
< 1321901630 942806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the US universities are businesses that serve as a pointless barrier for entering a profession. oh, also they do research stuff.
< 1321901641 483593 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was disappointed you didn't quote my gay joke
< 1321901651 226037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh where was that
< 1321901653 927690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i finished logreading
< 1321901659 564871 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :up where i was talking to zzo
< 1321901684 34037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good god what have i missed
< 1321901687 392872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have to read the wonderful conversation between shachaf copumpkin oerjan Ngevd (I think?) and I
< 1321901696 126928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about
< 1321901701 693458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maths"
< 1321901704 689779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1321901707 933644 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where
< 1321901709 745066 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it
< 1321901712 200176 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to read it
< 1321901712 981068 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1321901713 164379 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww maths
< 1321901719 51722 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1321901723 157030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that
< 1321901725 398282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not funny
< 1321901726 484043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bottom, strictness, category theory, type theory. primarily it was about me not understanding _|_ as it's used in Haskell.
< 1321901739 797623 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cs :/
< 1321901748 442615 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't me I don't think
< 1321901752 324157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "it's awesome" I mean you'll probably hate reading it and seeing how wrong I am the whole time.
< 1321901765 277130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Sgeo was there too
< 1321901824 693180 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very few things about category theory apart from the trivialities, mosty limits and inverse limits i suppose
< 1321901847 800886 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were a new addition because we needed inverse limits for... something
< 1321901849 99867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some of the basic terminology and some laws and that's it.
< 1321901854 702048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know about category theory is that it is a category
< 1321901865 750890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are its morphisms?
< 1321901878 384189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians
< 1321901887 847804 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1321901897 104043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors I imagine.
< 1321901903 814004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: was it today
< 1321901904 92721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1321901907 705820 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to be a homomorphism
< 1321901908 159352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous
< 1321901908 778639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :day
< 1321901909 297324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're talking about "category of categories"
< 1321901909 427882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(utc)
< 1321901918 36069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: *category of small cats
< 1321901921 950137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kittens)
< 1321901922 908286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't actually ever pay attention to UTC
< 1321901934 811578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it was today UTC
< 1321902002 998659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ah i left off at the point of you beign all |im hate calculus"
< 1321902024 887956 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh yes that was very very early.
< 1321902026 341643 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew calculus
< 1321902058 595681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mainly hate calculus because of all the effort I had to put into taking three university courses on it.
< 1321902098 46115 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy maths at the moment
< 1321902101 701101 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't change that
< 1321902112 276261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sorta maths
< 1321902119 958485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like maths too, but not calculus.
< 1321902138 394427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the maths I know about, except for geometry
< 1321902140 163733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im maths
< 1321902159 931730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also everyone hates geometry, was there a memo I missed or something?
< 1321902160 55292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you know about
< 1321902166 48209 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete math is intuitive and nice thanks to my leet cs skillz
< 1321902169 313074 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know why the identity element of a group is unique?
< 1321902171 404605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus hurts.
< 1321902192 793144 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing geometry atm
< 1321902193 103193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, basic calculus, moderately sophisticated conventional algebra, matrices.
< 1321902205 997735 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in besicovitch spaces of course
< 1321902220 670824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is based on the Scottish course, of course.
< 1321902222 943864 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k that stuff
< 1321902227 718411 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go :/
< 1321902232 533364 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bues.
< 1321902233 706146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bored oklopol Ngevd :(
< 1321902236 831949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like matrix multiplication, because when you get over how damn weird it is, it all makes perfect sense
< 1321902242 814403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bored Ngevd oklopol :'( (maybe ???)
< 1321902255 230287 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like category theory because when you get over how damn weird it is it's still weird.
< 1321902260 214432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just faintly smiling and rocking side to side
< 1321902265 620824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you do that a lot
< 1321902268 467970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's cs :/
< 1321902269 485034 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1321902274 442245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321902275 411076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is a kind of maths.
< 1321902278 165118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION faintly smiles and rocks side to side
< 1321902280 35631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1321902289 103436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: have you read about finite fields?
< 1321902293 462804 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1321902311 840414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  it's not even about strictness actually   not strictly about strictness, anyway
< 1321902312 496244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read that much about anything
< 1321902313 872445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it, a finite n-dimensional space in which matric multiplication is a linear map.
< 1321902314 450247 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :731)  it's not even about strictness actually   not strictly about strictness, anyway
< 1321902315 602465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:06:  \f x-> reads \f->\x->... *Clearly* there's not much evaluation you can do of an unapplied lambda.
< 1321902318 37233 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmm
< 1321902318 835909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: sure there is
< 1321902359 467882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, they're fields with only finitely many elements, where fields are this abstract algebra thing.
< 1321902363 118575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:12:  > (\x -> undefined)
< 1321902363 210720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:13:  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a)
< 1321902363 256227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:13:  arising from a use of `...
< 1321902363 256390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:39:  in my mind this is forcing (\x -> undefined) (I'm just going to call it const undefined now)
< 1321902366 572067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah
< 1321902368 915630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: stop being an idiot, that error is compile-time
< 1321902369 14216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense
< 1321902379 982064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the confusion was not a result of that error
< 1321902380 119561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (fix id) :: (a -> b)
< 1321902381 526182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> b)
< 1321902381 892826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1321902384 939192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite loop terminating omg
< 1321902418 840649 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id
< 1321902420 294212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a
< 1321902423 787359 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah
< 1321902456 514151 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you know about (n-1)-order Markov models based on frequency analysis of character n-grams and their applications in autolinguistic lexeme generation?
< 1321902456 806556 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet is where I don't have to be a hyperintelligent... entity
< 1321902456 923173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, specifically, fields are more or less sets with two operators which behave broadly similar to + and * over the reals.
< 1321902461 940391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I just made most of that terminology up)
< 1321902519 85204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually no I didn't.
< 1321902524 197070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made it sound fancier than it is.
< 1321902563 751859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you a hyperintelligent entity usually
< 1321902567 436784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you god Ngevd
< 1321902572 85982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I'm expected to be
< 1321902609 275128 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If enough people believe I am a god, I will BECOME AS A GOD!!!
< 1321902624 817731 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I find the trick to appearing as a hyperintelligent entity in real life is to only speak when you actually know something
< 1321902628 632243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to otherwise remain silent.
< 1321902634 900140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow this protocol online. :P
< 1321902642 458153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I don't do that, nobody seems to have noticed?
< 1321902697 415791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This results in the unfortunate consequence that people seem to think I'm an expert on, say, determining the ionic composition of water.
< 1321902697 789050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321902704 598327 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321902705 14961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321902706 385092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, weird.
< 1321902716 90462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aren't you?
< 1321902721 404765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my "stupid filter" turns off when I'm in this channel, for some reason. :P
< 1321902742 684570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, of course, but the presumption offends me.
< 1321902746 463578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:54:  copumpkin: I thought this was a classic example in #haskell.
< 1321902746 614463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:59: * copumpkin shrugs
< 1321902746 660097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:59:  copumpkin: it's not.
< 1321902749 927172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People ask me for help with their Chemistry homework
< 1321902753 367062 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do chemistry
< 1321902753 605605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know we have a haskell expert to correct shachaf
< 1321902769 628747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I was "it's not"ing that thing directly above me.
< 1321902770 194940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here in Scotland we have transcended the need for mere mortal chemistry homework.
< 1321902782 413109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see anything else relevant.
< 1321902787 678508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:08: -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: You sort out this mess yourself).
< 1321902787 727931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a lol though.
< 1321902797 802964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, immortal chemistry homework!?
< 1321902818 989716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We transcended that as well.
< 1321902821 291251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:29:14:  shachaf: I had this discussion a year or so ago with people regarding spoon and why the denotation view of strictness is bullshit because we can actually distinguish things operationally, and people should stop masturbating to denotation
< 1321902821 381933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is made sad by this viewpoint.
< 1321902851 88777 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION masturbates vigorously
< 1321902899 512864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't masturbate to ANYTHING
< 1321902902 631360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah considering I don't actually frequent #haskell and don't know anything about the classic examples there
< 1321902903 436959 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyahahaha!
< 1321902909 662238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably was in relation to something else.
< 1321902936 165591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type CommandQueue = Ptr CommandQueuec
< 1321902936 248056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no why would you do that!
< 1321902939 806048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :library I DON'T LIKE YOU
< 1321902989 338947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to focus on not IRC
< 1321902990 848724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK let's try this.
< 1321903004 542784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data CLDeviceInfoRetval = DeviceInfoRetvalString String | DeviceInfoRetvalCLuint CLuint | DeviceInfoRetvalCLbool CLbool | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceFPConfig DeviceFPConfig | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceExecCapabilities DeviceExecCapabilities | DeviceInfoRetvalCLulong CLulong | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceMemCacheType DeviceMemCacheType | DeviceInfoRetvalCLsizei CLsizei | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceLocalMemType DeviceLocalMemType | DeviceInfoRetvalCLsizeiList [CLsizei]
< 1321903004 609833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | DeviceInfoRetvalPlatformID PlatformID | DeviceInfoRetvalCommandQueueProperties CommandQueueProperties | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceType DeviceType
< 1321903012 438635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: please ensure cosmic punishment of the designer of this library for me
< 1321903015 625127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: going into IRC rehab
< 1321903019 668285 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321903123 900714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL_CONTEXT_PROPERTIES	cl_context_properties[]	 Return the properties argument specified in clCreateContext.
< 1321903127 792178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah!!!
< 1321903133 467912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this library forces people to create their own pointers
< 1321903134 672437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm crying
< 1321903138 880903 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1321903145 738821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean that was obvious but like
< 1321903148 121337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for that thing :(
< 1321903150 211434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a pionter
< 1321903154 815082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what
< 1321903162 358450 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People beep my name too much.
< 1321903176 36795 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you beep my name, you have to brace yourself for My wrath.
< 1321903229 566759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted!
< 1321903253 936065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS DEVICEID A POINTER
< 1321903281 361119 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321903665 50051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES OPENCL DO REFCOUNTING
< 1321903687 224110 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a haskell opencl binding?
< 1321903703 585862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying that opencl itself sucks to bind to?
< 1321903705 924284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'm trying to make http://hackage.haskell.org/package/OpenCLWrappers less terrible :P
< 1321903727 546081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my issues are with the wrapper, and almost all of those issues are inherited from the dead package it's forked from
< 1321903735 556084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm too busy yelling at everything :P
< 1321903751 371706 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :please make it not suck
< 1321903783 965892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: That's a long-term goal. My short-term goals look like "make it use exceptions rather than threading around (IO (Either ErrorCode Result)) ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE".
< 1321903793 49940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Make it use ForeignPtrs rather than making you free everything" :P
< 1321903799 391735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a long shot, but is anyone here in my ancient history class?
< 1321903799 807582 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1321903813 54533 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I may be old, but I'm not that old
< 1321903836 71157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I should clarify, it's not ALWAYS (Either ErrorCode r). If r would be (), it's instead (Maybe ErrorCode).
< 1321903840 644209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to keep things interesting, I guess!
< 1321903849 436464 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321903865 285170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: did I show you combineOr? I forget :P
< 1321903870 603622 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321903880 812362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: https://github.com/jkarlson/OpenCLWrappers/blob/master/System/OpenCL/Wrappers/Utils.hs#L71
< 1321903892 400958 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321903902 315172 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that
< 1321903916 379365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's used in exactly one place, on a list of Foo where Foo is a newtype of CLulong
< 1321903929 848043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriving (Bits)
< 1321903936 915265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i just unwrapped the newtype instead
< 1321903945 262631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' (.|.) 0 [ foo | Cons foo <- xs ]
< 1321903948 217218 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :derive bits on the newtype and it'll just work
< 1321903956 589632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I might
< 1321903957 583004 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do so many esolangers start with a BF derivative?
< 1321903982 468289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I should offer an interface to this awful refcounting stuff
< 1321903992 410547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ some of these can allocate GPU memory
< 1321904007 641329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to just remove them so that you can't cause segfaults that easily
< 1321904109 86943 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321904119 119022 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello aloril
< 1321904129 482453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The enigma that is aloril.
< 1321904244 719755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i was going to ask ais523 but then i realised he uses CUDA
< 1321904270 22644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really use CUDA, more I've seen it before
< 1321904293 569102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You complained about the toolkit once and said you might switch to OpenCL if it keeps getting worse?
< 1321904340 415768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my boss did that
< 1321904348 832251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're the one who said it.
< 1321904350 72281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the toolkit was getting worse over time, although it was quite good to start with
< 1321904363 441049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's him who complained, I reported the complaint here (and I agree with it)
< 1321904416 519982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reported it silently, at least :P
< 1321904422 275339 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1321904428 323602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321904439 638769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye Phantom_Hoover
< 1321904440 671984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover
< 1321904454 265898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've *got* to work out what that thing is which makes rolling my hand on the left of the touchpad close the chat tab.
< 1321904476 96567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think that these actually do use GPU RAM...
< 1321904485 156933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, ais523, CAN HUMIDITY, FLUORESCENT LIGHTS AND MICROWAVES KILL COMPUTERS?????
< 1321904488 383585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just keep exposing the free function.
< 1321904494 818806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm wait
< 1321904501 195516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not safe, since it might get re-freed
< 1321904698 575814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I advise against microwaving a computer
< 1321904720 169156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noooooooooo
< 1321904735 865391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For you see, I left my motherboard in the microwave to get rid of the humidity.
< 1321905245 296866 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321905454 989369 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I enquire as to the presence of cliques amongst schools in the UK?
< 1321905475 320895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may, although why you think you'll get answers here is anyone's guess.
< 1321905496 469442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You go to school in the UK
< 1321905513 246088 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I
< 1321905529 134806 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 does something that may have something to do with schools in the UK
< 1321905536 780132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universities, actually.
< 1321905896 29902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is a ``Ph.D. student''.
< 1321905898 797543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hobo.)
< 1321905938 805214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know what elliott does
< 1321905952 575439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a hobo assistant.
< 1321905964 457773 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah
< 1321905987 985226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, where do you get your education?
< 1321905997 968349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want to steal it
< 1321906241 807754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: hobo store
< 1321907670 868363 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a student of some sort; personally, I've not kept track of which bit of secondary education he's in.
< 1321907731 173512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're all hobophobic.
< 1321907734 478677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1321907741 746164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321907749 261198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I can't get over how that sounds like "homophobic" said by someone with a cold.
< 1321907872 293270 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321907872 378355 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321907872 378500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321907881 316582 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi my name is Adam and I'm addicted to IRC
< 1321907902 601569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321907903 916752 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Adam, I'm Nathan and I'm smug and think I'm better than you
< 1321907916 8876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I knew it.
< 1321907983 809099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I picked a bad topic for this crap
< 1321908032 865760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I now have a giant bottle of caffeinated energy soda.
< 1321908040 200995 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we ever get invaded by Haskellites?
< 1321908046 692219 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1321908052 443657 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all ran away when they saw my snarky comment.
< 1321908054 483885 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric /is/ Haskellites, largely.
< 1321908070 162255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are at least three people in here who came from #esoteric.
< 1321908071 778537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one bot.
< 1321908078 917104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm.
< 1321908080 293527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From #haskell.
< 1321908087 443901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of people in here who came from #esoteric .
< 1321908089 715784 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And several bots.
< 1321908090 958485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came from the wiki
< 1321908095 987944 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean regulars?
< 1321908099 150290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like, today... recently
< 1321908104 224161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :three random people appeared
< 1321908108 217012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a new bot
< 1321908122 755842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's actually two. kmc no longer graces us with his presence :'(
< 1321908125 716388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote kmc
< 1321908128 693623 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :686)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks \ 720)  You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes.   `quote kmc   686)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks   Well, in theory.
< 1321908175 961699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also by Haskellites I mean "one who fondly regards and practices in the deep ways of Haskell voodoo"
< 1321908180 608161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not #haskellites
< 1321908194 288797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a difference
< 1321908197 921709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321908207 980060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a Haskellite and not a #haskellite
< 1321908221 901023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha well
< 1321908224 534088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then
< 1321908237 290993 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kmc is on vacation.
< 1321908243 517237 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also monqy?
< 1321908245 327941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vacation from BEING INTERESTING.
< 1321908247 786313 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant people who religiously obey the works of Mr Curry
< 1321908260 634507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is an hornonronoronrorary #haskell member.
< 1321908261 968837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh... elliott, but not elliottt
< 1321908281 890178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both elliott and elliottt are in #haskell
< 1321908293 622821 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't "come from #haskell".
< 1321908305 544228 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I didn't hear about #esoteric in #haskell. I'm pretty sure.
< 1321908315 832319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Where did you come frmo,t hen?
< 1321908319 924818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you are a migrate.
< 1321908321 529645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, edwardk has been in here before too.
< 1321908327 60186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not from #haskell.
< 1321908329 690454 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a geographical system in which people my simultaneously exist in two locations
< 1321908334 122701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... who else was it?
< 1321908334 894823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/my/may/
< 1321908338 145923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr.
< 1321908339 879278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr's been in here.
< 1321908347 539910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think it was him.
< 1321908372 285741 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No idea.
< 1321908402 407041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I suspect several #haskellites are in fact #esoteric migrants.
< 1321908425 380114 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what this means:  I have no idea
< 1321908450 421145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I came here, I had never heard of Haskell
< 1321908459 251520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had barely heard of the freenode IRC server
< 1321908485 63292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Ngev's conversion account
< 1321908508 421029 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a d in my name, gorram it
< 1321908513 81433 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Before I came to #esoteric, I had never even hurd of Befunge, but soon I felt His glory."
< 1321908518 111324 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi im back from leaving like then
< 1321908525 369289 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah!
< 1321908533 108392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You realise you came here in July :P
< 1321908539 554087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1321908564 591296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an ancient antediluvian, sort of.
< 1321908577 862377 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I am able to write an almost funtioning bf interpreter in Haskell
< 1321908587 120154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: sweet
< 1321908591 384925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my first Haskell program
< 1321908610 113376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And re-invented zippers... by thinking of how to implement bf in Piet
< 1321908618 358366 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...forget what my first haskell thing was
< 1321908659 163516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first Haskell thing translated brainfuck to Piet assembler
< 1321908672 415641 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1321908680 881072 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was designed to take advantage of oerjan's work
< 1321908687 896240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing i can remember doing was just a boring markov irc bot :(
< 1321908696 652076 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may have done some stuff before then
< 1321908701 541526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why :( markov irc bots are great
< 1321908703 674215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it only used a tape size of three
< 1321908708 962284 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guesssssssss.....
< 1321908714 798067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, boring ones aren't
< 1321908718 697360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi fungot
< 1321908719 441294 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, i wanted to talk to a t-rex... nostalgia, doesn't that make them equally valid? like, a pirate. we've all been there.
< 1321908722 129536 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't TOO boring
< 1321908727 112045 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wasn't SPECTACULAR
< 1321908744 460532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i love programming languages stuff and i think compiling to piet is nifty
< 1321908747 851495 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321908770 418951 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiled to Piet assembler. It needs another program to actually output Piet
< 1321908781 282890 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only program that exists is written in Perl
< 1321908824 142679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh..
< 1321908838 470221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is piet assembler any interesting
< 1321908892 786418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/538375
< 1321908893 402538 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you make a compiler to piet that "optimized" programs into looking kind of like pretty pictures
< 1321908902 926316 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks to CakeProphet for his tremendous help"
< 1321908906 196721 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember any of this.
< 1321908933 809266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing this was back when I frequented #python
< 1321908942 133782 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was it
< 1321908944 809562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#python, that is
< 1321908947 671287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid of it
< 1321908950 917099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spent considerable amounts of time actually helping people with Python questions.
< 1321908958 336100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's, meh.
< 1321908965 605683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the same as any other programming language channel (except #haskell)
< 1321908990 910479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people there are generally helpful, but others can be rude and unecessarily pedantic. others simply don't know what they're talking about.
< 1321909005 174671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321909040 578686 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's true of #haskell too.
< 1321909042 670606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also it is incredibly easy to write "unreadable" code, by Python standards.
< 1321909059 219231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "unreadable"?
< 1321909061 465227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by people who program in Python and are bad at reading code
< 1321909065 135660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: subjective, mostly.
< 1321909088 511459 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I'd have trouble reading a lot of "readable" python code, and would do better with some less "readable" stuff
< 1321909094 797533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++
< 1321909103 87194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell used to be better :(
< 1321909108 21891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321909122 664598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most importantly, it used to not go at a thousand lines per second :P)
< 1321909124 256696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric used to be better, then elliott came along.  >:(
< 1321909133 744424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It so wasn't better, I've read the logs.
< 1321909137 472121 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't fathom #esoteric without elliott.
< 1321909137 835055 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha. ha. ha ha.)
< 1321909138 715731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were so stupid :'(
< 1321909148 500699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but look at how much I've changed!
< 1321909149 640308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It was much quieter.
< 1321909153 852892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Exactly! Not at ALL!
< 1321909159 140212 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is the life of the party
< 1321909177 973606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely I have.
< 1321909190 936088 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been... what.. 4 years now?
< 1321909193 530327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :5?
< 1321909312 852840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I joined this channel I had maybe a few months of experience with Python.
< 1321909321 166347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I am a VERITABLE MASTER (not really)
< 1321909491 778777 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a transformation is about to take place (I think)
< 1321909500 726521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what transformation
< 1321909503 745139 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Kallisti
< 1321909505 983471 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM
< 1321909511 4460 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for Freenode staff.
< 1321909512 438071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have nabbed that before you
< 1321909515 848867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: oh they take hours
< 1321909524 681300 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I WILL WAIT
< 1321909528 217642 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE THIS NICK
< 1321909542 133140 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is a silly name anyway. this is much better.
< 1321909569 716475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change nicks permanently im putting you on ignore
< 1321909662 679347 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed nicks permanentlish
< 1321909681 595901 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321909687 652630 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1321909693 104826 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd!
< 1321909710 408572 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How're you?
< 1321909718 876949 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OH LOOK IT TOOK LIKE 10 MINUTES FOR STAFF TO DROP THE NICK
< 1321909721 148312 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now?
< 1321909729 75893 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also you're just looking for an excuse to ignore me.
< 1321909773 698398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon no-one's nick here will be the same as their wiki username!
< 1321909806 868795 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which
< 1321909809 589895 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should change wiki usernames
< 1321909826 756641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask an admin.
< 1321909833 275046 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1321909848 761630 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, excuse me. hi?
< 1321909852 555272 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi is not a valid question
< 1321909862 691140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321909870 365594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't change wiki usernames
< 1321909873 502484 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321909873 547845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to ask Graue
< 1321909879 482012 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about I just
< 1321909882 303910 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a new username
< 1321909885 155006 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move everything to that.
< 1321909899 789335 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, just start fresh basically. because my current user stuff is pointless :P
< 1321909965 615204 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new era of legitimacy. yes. that is definitely what will happen.
< 1321909992 538932 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with my unfinished regex language and clusterfuck graph automaton and now this idea for a reversible graph thing.
< 1321910009 736054 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit will be graphed and regular expressioned the fuck out.
< 1321910108 223417 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins ##c just to see what it's like.
< 1321910116 267475 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :silent.
< 1321910137 360806 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :422 silent people.
< 1321910144 769137 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be debugging C programs.
< 1321910225 487430 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upderpinski triangle
< 1321910233 571181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321910248 87886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321910498 102769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321910502 371699 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321910628 3024 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, do you think Great Britain looks more like a venus fly trap or a weird jagged bifurcated penis.
< 1321910642 413084 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Write a Num instance for (a -> a) -> (a -> a)
< 1321910653 850607 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble is, you _really_ want a forall a. first
< 1321910668 713249 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you cannot define things like multiplication
< 1321910743 609728 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think.  lessee.
< 1321910778 810175 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ?m (?n (f :: Int -> Int)) :: Int -> Int
< 1321910779 800324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr Int)
< 1321910780 10294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      arising from a use of `f' at :1:8
< 1321910780 55544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Possible fix:
< 1321910784 323190 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321910789 689650 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ?m (?n (?f :: Int -> Int)) :: Int -> Int
< 1321910790 672659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (?f::Int -> Int, ?m::t -> Int -> Int, ?n::(Int -> Int) -> t) => Int -> Int
< 1321910811 216687 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess multiplication might work
< 1321910843 120571 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need linear implicit parameters
< 1321910851 133900 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity they killed them
< 1321910854 501563 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: either way it is clearly dwarfed by the long bifurcated dick of Scandinavia.
< 1321910856 398534 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ?m ?n (?f :: Int -> Int) :: Int -> Int
< 1321910857 306243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (?f::Int -> Int, ?m::t -> (Int -> Int) -> Int -> Int, ?n::t) => Int -> Int
< 1321910857 624684 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what is that?
< 1321910875 437642 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a feature GHC supported way back before I started haskell
< 1321910884 67851 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/The_Monad.Reader/Issue2/FunWithLinearImplicitParameters
< 1321910887 147905 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exponentiation won't work
< 1321910992 672022 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log elliott.*CakeProphet.*implicit.*parameters
< 1321910998 170617 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-21.txt:21:29:52:  `log elliott.*CakeProphet.*implicit.*parameters
< 1321911001 475109 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321911012 755301 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log elliott.*implicit.*parameters
< 1321911017 765537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-22.txt:17:43:20:  Implicit parameters are a misfeature and should never be used; nobody at all wants them to stay in the language, and they've been used approximately once.
< 1321911036 536224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that twice, then.
< 1321911047 288799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot and an article in the Monad.Reader.
< 1321911118 961504 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I think implicit parameters can be good.
< 1321911127 6212 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they need to be used wisely.
< 1321911142 3485 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not because you're bad at writing Haskell. :P
< 1321911208 192147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: There's an example piece of code where giving it the inferred type signature changes its semantics with implicit parameters, IIRC.
< 1321911224 916152 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_0?
< 1321911390 787931 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok i guess multiplication might work <-- well, although only with the more complicated type ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
< 1321911441 747485 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't wait to see what church complex numbers would look like.
< 1321911458 54168 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321911462 331538 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers themselves would just be a pair
< 1321911474 418575 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the associated functions that make them interesting
< 1321911475 639674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: this article was interesting until they whipped out the unsafe functions
< 1321911482 117095 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :church binary search tree?
< 1321911515 381649 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: there is a process for converting any adt to church representation
< 1321911537 496128 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even gadt's according to what i recently read on reddit
< 1321911541 46772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1321911611 612583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: ah yes, it is even referenced in that article: "So the semantics of the program depends on whether or not foo has a type
< 1321911611 693925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :signature. Yikes!"
< 1321911631 36626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was linear implicit parameters
< 1321911638 280030 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes
< 1321911769 48236 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has an explicit type  I assume
< 1321911848 783367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: not quite:
< 1321911850 335369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is important that we give a real type signature:
< 1321911850 454295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :: Int = reflect [0,1] does not make any difference!"
< 1321911857 80150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but x = reflect [0,1] :: Int might
< 1321912018 805167 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even aware you could declare types on patterns.
< 1321912049 384659 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well, x isn't really a pattern actually
< 1321912086 344104 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x :: Int = 2 in x
< 1321912087 183172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2
< 1321912112 909998 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let [x,y] :: [Int] = [1,2] in x
< 1321912113 755481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1
< 1321912136 47500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an extension
< 1321912143 541676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful with exceptions
< 1321912149 481705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m `catch` \(_::Foo) -> ...
< 1321912179 2812 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so you can use it to make case statements on different types in a typeclass.
< 1321912183 749582 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useful.
< 1321912208 583248 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....right?
< 1321912231 657500 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no
< 1321912284 274095 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use it in lambdas passed to higher order functions to specify a concrete type.
< 1321912350 811497 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type-based case expressions would be fun. I guess you can achieve that with Typeable actually.
< 1321912362 556629 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell new exception system uses some tricks to essentially allow it to do "case statements on different types" in the Exception typeclass.
< 1321912374 964906 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what catch relies on
< 1321912391 905157 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you just chain together catches?
< 1321912405 6824 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there
< 1321912406 7284 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used exception handling in Haskell.
< 1321912416 436833 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s a specific function for taking a list
< 1321912422 623522 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1321912433 943695 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can chain together too, i guess
< 1321912463 940523 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t catch
< 1321912464 944494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. IO a -> (IOError -> IO a) -> IO a
< 1321912480 744939 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the IO catch from the report, which is much more limited
< 1321912487 910533 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.catch
< 1321912488 258580 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOError is an existential I'm guessing.
< 1321912488 939695 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a e. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => IO a -> (e -> IO a) -> IO a
< 1321912501 249384 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: no i think it's an actual ADT
< 1321912503 383759 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321912509 260658 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :type IOError = IOException
< 1321912513 969133 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell report has no existentials
< 1321912516 43272 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :data IOException
< 1321912532 313067 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321912543 807260 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so do you actually use exceptions?
< 1321912552 327433 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen elliott use them.
< 1321912581 394689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't use exceptions, you don't write much non-boilerplate code in IO
< 1321912598 267734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the haskell new exception system uses some tricks to essentially allow it to do "case statements on different types" in the Exception typeclass.
< 1321912602 436616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's not _that_ tricky :P
< 1321912603 191918 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall if i've used them
< 1321912603 986488 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or don't write fault-tolerant IO code.
< 1321912606 307491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just Typeable
< 1321912611 170761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: it's not about fault-tolerance
< 1321912620 708771 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well ok it's really just Typeable, the extra trick is for the subtyping
< 1321912720 703444 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things i've written are very mathematical, so not very complicated IO
< 1321912795 396446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think Kallisti is living under the delusion that you write actual programs
< 1321912799 481510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are, shall we say, a "programmer"
< 1321912801 130888 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not much need to actually catch erros
< 1321912804 213078 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rs
< 1321912815 547641 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible.
< 1321912823 844969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has no need for love
< 1321912833 419329 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! :(
< 1321912835 398948 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321912853 980283 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HA HA HA POLYGLOT PUN
< 1321912868 516974 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :polyglot typo pun
< 1321912870 530502 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something.
< 1321912912 579777 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait what, i assuming you are making a pun on eros but that really doesn't fit there.
< 1321912923 512801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the joke :P
< 1321912939 591470 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think elliott is living under the delusion that you are a non-mythical human being.
< 1321912940 932077 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*am
< 1321912946 815246 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are, shall we say, "not a viking"
< 1321912956 84138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...says someone called "Kallisti".
< 1321912990 557423 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: obviously I am an apple.
< 1321912995 389139 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321912998 302048 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not a human being
< 1321913002 397298 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321913003 939691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pkzip we missed you!!!
< 1321913016 226980 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were getting all uncompressed!
< 1321913038 909359 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am logged as pkzip ? I thought my changed nickname wud
< 1321913043 448462 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick in by now
< 1321913047 190501 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which nick do you hate the most? CakeProphet or Kallisti?
< 1321913053 261489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: you have to change it in your client settings
< 1321913059 755426 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your opinion is important, or something.
< 1321913060 267122 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1321913061 670524 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1321913062 532596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: every time I see "CakeProphet" I puke
< 1321913070 562196 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good.
< 1321913075 782750 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: it's how he stays thin
< 1321913079 597926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: and
< 1321913081 92182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate puking
< 1321913082 211118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1321913083 163080 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see elliott is trying the old reverse psychology
< 1321913083 301585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you
< 1321913086 781052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i will hate you even more if you do that
< 1321913087 457647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1321913089 885295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might leave forever
< 1321913110 282593 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it double-reverse
< 1321913113 282940 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh no, I want to APPEAR NON-OBNOXIOUS AMONGST MY PEERS. :>
< 1321913121 536359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're failing
< 1321913121 961731 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :his reverse psychology is not working.
< 1321913122 610438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really badly
< 1321913135 5189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my name has ever annoyed anyone
< 1321913136 22343 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A92B.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321913176 3544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MISSPELLED MONKEY KILL KILL KILL
< 1321913193 9931 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop misspelling monqy
< 1321913217 133857 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:04 < elliott> and i will hate you even more if you do that
< 1321913219 260088 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what exactly
< 1321913224 664243 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall mentioning the doing of anything.
< 1321913226 289220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :become CakeProphet
< 1321913230 907248 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1321913231 1041 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1321913243 364757 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cake WILL APPEAR
< 1321913245 43039 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so wait, now oerjan has me confused.
< 1321913250 950405 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I numbed to "cakeprophet"
< 1321913251 593450 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321913264 702322 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti
< 1321913267 323279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better
< 1321913267 839693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes good
< 1321913277 776405 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was Kallisti better
< 1321913284 276181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321913287 240467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321913300 738355 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these days my nick history database will overflow and everyone i don't recognize will be banned.
< 1321913314 296374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick poop
< 1321913334 953925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've changed my name twice (or thrice, if you count my temporary name after I decided I didn't want my first name but before I decided on my second)
< 1321913347 591515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I joined here before I had settled on monqy though
< 1321913360 211011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what were your namnesemz
< 1321913362 154637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :z
< 1321913363 773039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
< 1321913367 220482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slep in chanel
< 1321913373 585514 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before monqy was monky
< 1321913380 996341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before that money?
< 1321913384 98526 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321913384 820389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :money to monqy a two step process
< 1321913411 980790 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like talking about things that happened before monky....
< 1321913414 348165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it was wonky
< 1321913466 93334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :xxkallistixx
< 1321913469 57831 :xxkallistixx!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaah this is way better
< 1321913471 822121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: were you................................... "dagoth ur, mad god"
< 1321913486 67285 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i doubt that.
< 1321913496 774566 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was not dagoth ur, mad god
< 1321913510 41224 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he was doing some _really_ good trolling
< 1321913512 439919 :xxkallistixx!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :xxk4111st1_darkb
< 1321913521 167663 :xxk4111st1_darkb!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww
< 1321913523 479763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you: a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, aa, ab, ac,
< 1321913531 613639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxk4111st1_darkb: btw ur spamming #haskell
< 1321913532 448683 :xxk4111st1_darkb!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti
< 1321913532 729110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxk4111st1_darkb: are you still in ##c and what else
< 1321913533 56118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with
< 1321913534 959166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickchangse
< 1321913537 165708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha #haskell
< 1321913544 92259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SUCH UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AAAAH
< 1321913583 293716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: not in C
< 1321913599 83257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: currently #esoteric #freelance and #haskell
< 1321913603 993993 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ "were you: " ++ ((`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) =<< [1..])
< 1321913604 913283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
< 1321913605 243152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type...
< 1321913605 779377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c missed the party
< 1321913607 76477 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321913612 64187 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no
< 1321913613 933685 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ "were you: " ++ concat ((`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) =<< [1..])
< 1321913615 476042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  were you: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzaaabacadaeafagahaiajakalamanaoapaqarasa...
< 1321913616 720087 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them
< 1321913619 247367 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1321913623 52474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: were you................................... "dagoth ur, mad god" <-- playing TES I see?
< 1321913628 779711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I imagine kallisti is probably a bit more serious sounding than CakeProphet on #freelance
< 1321913629 214138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha!
< 1321913629 832302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321913635 412269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1321913639 229806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that anyone actually uses #freelance, but occasionally they do, and occasionally I grab their moneyz
< 1321913640 880799 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 help
< 1321913653 825798 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is frelans any good
< 1321913656 824954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321913657 658066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it won't get damaged…
< 1321913664 193086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dagoth ur is morrowind isn't it?
< 1321913664 335795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's probably your version of hell or something.
< 1321913670 462046 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321913676 498448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321913679 107934 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the new case is all painted will the paint kill it with static???
< 1321913686 521240 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i see you have not been acquainted with our wonderful wiki friend dagoth ur
< 1321913702 804164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :, mad god
< 1321913706 101035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the only Dagoth Ur I know of is this one: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dagoth_Ur_%28god%29
< 1321913706 893926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: people come on every few days asking if anyone knows PHP, Django, .NET, HTML, CSS, JS, insert-CMS-of-choice, insert-web-framework-of-choice
< 1321913717 606029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and elliott did say mad god
< 1321913718 824659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...
< 1321913728 295371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme
< 1321913735 139711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi what is your skyrim character
< 1321913735 185146 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hashes
< 1321913751 283232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh I see. Well that explains it.
< 1321913751 377482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you ever see esme
< 1321913753 530352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes you did
< 1321913757 893118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: err what? Who are you?
< 1321913759 225302 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even heard esme
< 1321913761 506234 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that Dagoth Ur!
< 1321913762 190974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I made wrinklefucker the Breton warlock knight.
< 1321913768 249622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is now level 8! yessss
< 1321913775 439241 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you have had the rite of passage.
< 1321913779 866870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nord, mage/theif kind of mix.
< 1321913783 292630 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too was accused of being Dagoth Ur.
< 1321913785 847519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thief*
< 1321913787 66810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh, nord, IMAGINE THAT
< 1321913813 209197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well I was planning to play something else later on, when some bugs have been fixed and check if dialogue differs
< 1321913817 788542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on race
< 1321913832 56641 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no spoilers thx
< 1321913838 908981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: none really atm?
< 1321913851 707218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: besides I suspect my save game is BADLY bugged. Nirnroot respawns. Surely that is wrong...
< 1321913866 799696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they broke the lore badly in skyrim
< 1321913870 43185 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I know there are things called Bretons, also warlocks and knights, also nirnroots?
< 1321913877 140233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm greatly enjoying the heavy armor one-handed conjuration alteration mix. I find destruction kind of boring.
< 1321913910 204161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but conjuring weapons and minions as I run around in platemail slashing things up is fun.
< 1321913915 284945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: dude bretons are like a race, you get to select on character creation. warlock and knight would be more a description of skill set, since there are no actual classes
< 1321913923 524662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: and nirnroots were in oblivion
< 1321913930 532731 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal this is still SPOILERS
< 1321913943 116974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321913950 276607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I'm NOT going to avoid oblivion spoilers. Besides no one will explain what nirnroot is in skyrim, because they seem to assume you know from oblivion :P
< 1321913965 180059 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILERS
< 1321913965 468376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: just don't read the liners with spoilers then?
< 1321913978 186942 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal surely even you can see why that's stupid
< 1321913991 24371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You wanted a reason to ignore me anyway I'm sure of...
< 1321914010 448451 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course not; you're interesting in a pathological way.
< 1321914013 369777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I found sneak attack "somewhat" overpowered
< 1321914048 191693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I imagine the daedric armor (best heavy armor in the game) will be very fitting to my skillset since I'll be summoning dremora lords, stealing souls with conjured weapons, and whatnot
< 1321914064 548706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bound weapons, at least in the early levels, are pretty overpowered as they're equivalent in quality to ebony weapons.
< 1321914070 775732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I've read.
< 1321914084 717422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is daedric armour heavy or light?
< 1321914088 639670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go for light armour
< 1321914088 787607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy.
< 1321914093 195118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, no use to me then
< 1321914121 376903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for a kind of warrior-mage tank so the heavy armor combined with enchants and armor spells will be nice.
< 1321914126 581158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also heavy armor perks.
< 1321914148 549881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a sneak with two single handled ebony swords (flawless quality) on a undead boss in a dungeon. Took the initial 12x hit + two normal hits to kill
< 1321914156 980969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is kind of overpowered
< 1321914173 241394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes probably.
< 1321914181 638700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and I heard you can get up to 30x backstab bonus with perks and the right armour!
< 1321914187 360886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game definitely isn't difficult, probably my main complaint about it.
< 1321914190 801747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is utterly absurd
< 1321914199 871225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: try changing the difficulty slider
< 1321914202 231750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one could turn the difficult -- yes
< 1321914204 206632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played on normal
< 1321914212 375005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever they called that
< 1321914236 190245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway sneak won't work on dragons obviously. They tend to be perched out of reach
< 1321914247 531697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think I was level 38 when I last played yesterday
< 1321914254 830655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't decided if I want destruction or archery for ranged. I think as far as perks go I'll go with neither as I want to focus on heavy armor conjuration and 1H initially.
< 1321914278 9467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but archery is pretty enjoyable.
< 1321914288 737407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you kind of /need/ ranged to deal with dragons effectively. Unless you get a LOT of damage in during the brief periods they are on ground.
< 1321914308 397282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got fairly high destruction, 73 or something I think
< 1321914342 797546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well I believe magic resistance includes dragon fire.
< 1321914344 514911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?
< 1321914348 476574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321914357 667797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think it is a shout, so not sure how that works
< 1321914364 484185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: besides there are frost dragons as well
< 1321914372 281995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1321914377 780586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think it's all magic right?
< 1321914385 865849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I just try to be mobile and  stay out of harms way
< 1321914393 697752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing pretty well defensively with breton magic resistance + ward
< 1321914398 666275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use amulet of talos to reduce time between my shouts
< 1321914438 820936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like slow time or  which is very useful against  because he is the  of 
< 1321914453 206664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well might not be he, could be she or it for all I know
< 1321914464 343117 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321914469 172741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the plan is to be be ridiculous in defense with heavy armor and alteration (dragonskin = 80% reduction of physical damage for 30 seconds)
< 1321914483 111156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you progressed enough into the main quest you will know what I talk about :P
< 1321914484 55429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know to what extent armor helps against dragons.
< 1321914490 114049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm nearing the end of that
< 1321914490 636058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt I have.
< 1321914549 799163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: right, no eponymous stuff yet?
< 1321914571 698101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no, I think?
< 1321914578 773151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway I think you need 100 in smithing to craft dragon armour?
< 1321914584 938376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is heavy it just isn't worth it for me
< 1321914592 487303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt dragon armour could be LIGHT armour
< 1321914593 227129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :daedric armor = better than dragon heavy armor
< 1321914595 301135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wouldn't fit
< 1321914595 791115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavier too
< 1321914604 435822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dragon light armr is the best light armor
< 1321914610 45028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I use thief guild quest armour mostly
< 1321914611 600867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's a perk that makes equipped armor /weightless/
< 1321914614 351895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yeah.
< 1321914620 831027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes brotherhood armour
< 1321914630 793772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of that give 2x backstab bonus
< 1321914644 996078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : also there's a perk that makes equipped armor /weightless/ <-- in heavy or light tree?
< 1321914645 41381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell the main benefit of light armor is the 50% stamina regen perk, also the stealth benefits.
< 1321914647 76135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both?
< 1321914650 259917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both
< 1321914653 425368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321914664 722164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm a stealthy mage who recently taken to backstabbing
< 1321914692 113959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could probably get better armor by getting the mage armor alteration perk if you wanted.
< 1321914703 325836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that yes
< 1321914705 332142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that
< 1321914706 574419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, light armor works well too and has some pretty good mage gear associated with it.
< 1321914724 703937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I enhanced the light magic armour from those quest lines.
< 1321914733 450155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err smith enhanched that is
< 1321914738 38921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not magic enhanced
< 1321914749 130536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/enhanched/enhanced/
< 1321914767 527815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my character is probably going towards the path of most ridiculous defense you can possibly achieve.
< 1321914769 811954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so which level are you?
< 1321914772 635705 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :8. :)
< 1321914775 720919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321914779 743816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even own the game.
< 1321914779 909870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not playing much then
< 1321914783 489413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from my 38
< 1321914797 28074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty easy to level from what I can tell.
< 1321914807 485862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went from 29 to 38 over the weekend
< 1321914815 201939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got bored at one point and just start conjuring flame atronachs and killing them and got about 3 levels.
< 1321914821 721113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321914842 479103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just remember: there are still some leveled monsters. You wan't to put a lot into combat skills
< 1321914851 316998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think dragons in particular are leveled
< 1321914855 406294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I have been able to tell
< 1321914865 704333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. well I've been focusing mostly on one-handed and conjuration
< 1321914870 958881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are both offensive.
< 1321914893 299055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise dragons at level 5 would not be as hard as dragons at level 38. Heck I think dragons are harder in the latter case.
< 1321914903 692995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot wait to be able to summon /two/ dremora lords because one is already ridiculous enough.
< 1321914907 663213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires more player skill
< 1321914914 211747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can what?
< 1321914919 882774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never been one for conjuration
< 1321914921 572728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the last perks in conjuration.
< 1321914923 991492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321914926 223746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to be able to summon two things.
< 1321914937 881601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would LOVE to back stab a dragon though.
< 1321914989 961071 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about retconjuration?
< 1321915004 929036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway you will need to put some effort into finding shouts. Ask the greyberds about if they found any until they tell you that they haven't. There are still words to be found, but you need to do some quest line to get those.
< 1321915009 733765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what?
< 1321915020 795756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... that was terrible
< 1321915046 310274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the last perk in the "bound weapons" line of conjuration makes bound weapons banish summoned and daedric enemies.
< 1321915049 943877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does this sound useful?
< 1321915095 803880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait not daedric specifically
< 1321915102 979427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bound weapons will banish summoned creatures and turn raised ones"
< 1321915103 629941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not really. I never had any issues with that since most summoned monsters I ran into so far have been elemental. Just use fireball for ice antewhatever
< 1321915104 863367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1321915120 595738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or skeletons
< 1321915123 916404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are super eason
< 1321915125 467905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy*
< 1321915128 534023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a weird typo
< 1321915133 879620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the main benefit would be summoned daedric things.
< 1321915150 547615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have yet to see that
< 1321915158 320872 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-15.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: nites
< 1321915161 349934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides enemies seem kind of rubbish in their wards
< 1321915178 166641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway I find sneaking much more enjoyable actually
< 1321915190 723869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad that the custom spell making of oblivion is gone
< 1321915207 133405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% chameleon. What a nice spell to make...
< 1321915210 864096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they removed /many/ spells from Oblivion to Skyrim
< 1321915217 931154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: AND the custom spell making
< 1321915219 230454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1321915228 849483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I had 100 in illusion in oblivion
< 1321915230 890742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side enchanted weapons are much better.
< 1321915236 238119 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take it to #esoteric-skyrim please.
< 1321915238 833978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but I prefer being a make
< 1321915240 685321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mage*
< 1321915247 70303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: stfu and ignore this discussion?
< 1321915253 501900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: no one else is talking anyway
< 1321915284 954102 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the same applied with Minecraft chat.
< 1321915291 980563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it should go in #esoteric-minecraft because that is all about non-minecraft. Such as dwarf fortress
< 1321915304 2052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by logic all game discussion should go there
< 1321915308 609375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I dunno I think it could possibly be useful.
< 1321915314 542471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the banishing perk
< 1321915320 832786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you use bound weapons, which I do.
< 1321915324 879729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321915342 454855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah I'm not into conjuration in any game really.
< 1321915346 568828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get awesome enchanted weapons the main benefit of bound weapons will be the perk that casts soul trap on anything you hit with bound weapons.
< 1321915364 698550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there are enchanted weapons that do this as well.
< 1321915378 676795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I enjoyed the stealth elements of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. So there we go. Skyrim with cover system should be interesting
< 1321915389 653242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone will mod that eventually
< 1321915404 567844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321915416 35356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think they did make stealth a little more interesting than in Oblivion
< 1321915421 897224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more challenging anyway.
< 1321915430 629168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, I try to sneak around in clunky heavy armor...
< 1321915439 94023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: slightly yes. Doing away with chameleon made it harder...
< 1321915453 153068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's muffle and invisibility which is probably very helpful.
< 1321915458 332962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm glad they dropped the major/minor skill stuff
< 1321915471 486070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think the proper way to do leveled monsters is NOT from your level
< 1321915477 585808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather it should compute a combat score
< 1321915491 65442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on offensive skills and also what type of armour you have
< 1321915496 148203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: especially considering many people just do smithing shit for a while to build levels.
< 1321915499 817924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and health of course
< 1321915515 180952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the proper way should be by counting. So that if you do too much kill same kind it is too difficult. ADOM does that but I think ADOM does it not quite enough
< 1321915516 952213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, leveling up max in smithing at an early stage should not make the game unplayable
< 1321915527 429225 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321915559 976331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on the plus side, you'll have badass weapons. :P
< 1321915577 858891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the score would take that into account, based on what weapons you actually have
< 1321915595 859004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly I like static levels for things.
< 1321915606 577053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :level scaling makes the progression of an RPG entirely pointless.
< 1321915613 675522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same goes for enchanting, or speech. Probably different type of situations should use different equations. I mean pick-pocket should obviously be taken into account in some situations, but not other ones.
< 1321915628 783769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: certainly, static levels should also exist
< 1321915637 731463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but you really really need leveled dragons for example
< 1321915643 169732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321915662 912077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can pretty much visit them in any order, due to the game being, pretty much the sandbox of RPGs
< 1321915663 612066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe for dragons that just chill in their gave with hoards of gold
< 1321915668 457259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder dragons could have better loot.
< 1321915671 723077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah that comma was in the wrong place
< 1321915683 304677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy games that require you to use a little discretion.
< 1321915684 556811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "gave"?
< 1321915688 583039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :grave?
< 1321915690 654368 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cave...
< 1321915693 899843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321915695 504670 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I like category theory because when you get over how damn weird it is it's still weird.
< 1321915698 46290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :732)  I like category theory because when you get over how damn weird it is it's still weird.
< 1321915707 294672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pretty sure there are no such dragons in skyrim
< 1321915713 293743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they like to guard words though
< 1321915714 47858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: totally should be
< 1321915724 77556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: dragons that shapeshift into humans and have great influence over humanity.
< 1321915727 136208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, think about it.
< 1321915735 267985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think it is better if they /don't/ conform to the stereotype
< 1321915745 56721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a dragon, you probably live a long time. You might become interesting in human affairs, and obtaining vast wealth and influence.
< 1321915756 832697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably also magical, and you have infinite time to learn how to do things like shapeshift.
< 1321915764 610914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh and I have to say becoming friends with the orc settlements was really useful. Some nice stuff to shop there.
< 1321915775 22085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bad person
< 1321915789 967792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Unless you are orc you need to complete a fetch quest to be allowed in.
< 1321915791 682163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what?
< 1321915827 144366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not really spoiling anything. I'm not saying anything like "it was X who did it in the Y's guild side quest line" or something like that
< 1321915835 386304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :friend with orc = bad person
< 1321915853 139805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: come on you can play an orc. And they are not tolkin style orcs really
< 1321915853 609087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you sure?
< 1321915860 541663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one mistake Skyrim made: dwarven quality weapons are not the best in the game.
< 1321915869 252206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how is that bad?
< 1321915871 394359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is dwarf not a playable race if there are dwarven weapons.
< 1321915876 992354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because dorfs make the best weapons.
< 1321915891 829829 :Guest14567!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah
< 1321915900 978050 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dwarven" just means "made from dwemer metal", not "made by the ancient dwarves"
< 1321915906 864894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: uh lore. See Morrowind why dwarfs died out/disappeared from our plane/disintegrated.
< 1321915911 231190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about yotuhful dwarves
< 1321915916 840817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ytouhytful
< 1321915918 961907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoothufl
< 1321915925 101764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pretty sure there is in-game literature about it to...
< 1321915926 296683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too*
< 1321915928 268885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe just they don't want playable dwarf in that game.
< 1321915934 977032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it better than "cats of skyrim"
< 1321915937 738746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no)
< 1321915939 797509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are reasons. It is complex lore.
< 1321915942 566000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sorry elder scrolls lore is boring.
< 1321915959 409942 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever game, they put restriction... such as, lighting things on fire is not allowed, or whatever.
< 1321915979 838328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well basically they tried to become gods to the whole race was wiped out, save for one guy who happened to be at another plane when it happened. He shows up in Morrowind.
< 1321915981 521958 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321915986 967396 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not not allowed, just not implemented
< 1321915993 894465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321915994 140459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321916001 369292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I haven't played enough Morrowind to get there, but that is what I understood from in-game books and the wiki.
< 1321916012 28684 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321916027 284788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed
< 1321916038 677293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Then it means, for nearly any computer game, a lot of things are "just not implemented"
< 1321916047 616626 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: you sound surprised
< 1321916048 722944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway I find Elder scrolls lore quite exiting.
< 1321916061 638609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I definitely think the character skill system is improved, especially making it balanced so that every skill is a viable and useful for something.
< 1321916063 86490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like jumping to -1
< 1321916072 759277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YOU ENDED IT
< 1321916083 611897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like archery has some neat perk that make an archer playstyle more interesting.
< 1321916086 815518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*perks
< 1321916100 642620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hit the key left of 1 (§ on my keyboard), I'm sure you can jump to -1 then.
< 1321916102 743980 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I am not surprised. It is as expected.
< 1321916108 88977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: that brings up the console)
< 1321916128 587404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you /will/ need it, there are /so/ many ways to get stuck in the terrain)
< 1321916139 800375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for detailed world simulator see: dwarf fortress
< 1321916161 185885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw skyrim is larger than it seems, as you will find out when proceeding with the main quest. Ever played Shivering Isles expansion for oblivion?
< 1321916170 630051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep
< 1321916173 848289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not going to open the console.
< 1321916174 816137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't show up. But something just as graphically amazing does
< 1321916196 916882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you are going to reload an earlier save if you get stuck between a mill and a water wheel?
< 1321916201 466171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened to me
< 1321916206 66909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I get to replay the game
< 1321916210 113379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321916213 250727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure
< 1321916214 41359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: convince bay12 to give you source code access. challenge: give dorf fortress a 3D graphical frontend.
< 1321916214 131068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who keeps a backlog of saves is a poop
< 1321916239 410106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you just mortally offended elliott
< 1321916243 421369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have once played dwarf fortress; a lot of character seem not playable, there seem a few other optionss missing too, and it runs very slowly. But I can see by looking at the files that comes with it that it implements a very large number of things. But even trying to do that, someone forgets something (that is for many games they try to put everything, they will always do so)
< 1321916244 46603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe
< 1321916261 991268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dwarf fortress require a high end CPU
< 1321916265 368817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc you don't ahve
< 1321916266 506330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :have*
< 1321916287 472564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it you who had like 224 MB RAM?
< 1321916292 658597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is absurdly small
< 1321916297 453916 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :His games must implement everything and run fast, of course.
< 1321916313 920478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321916341 337155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I am not saying it must. I am just saying that even if they are supposed to, they don't.
< 1321916358 938784 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is different game, and depending on the game is supposed to be different. That is why you can make up a different game.
< 1321916379 384951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at the other end of that spectrum... i7, sandy bridge, 4 cores, 3.4 GHz, 16 GB RAM (I wouldn't call those specs absurd, upper end yes, but not absurd. I know someone with dual xeon i7 quads and 32 GB RAM, that is absurd for a desktop!)
< 1321916415 35855 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tip: most games run just as well on an i3 as an i7
< 1321916423 466569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I do other stuff than game.
< 1321916426 150127 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: That's why I use an i1.
< 1321916446 166326 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is the master of optimization
< 1321916460 544368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I do actually use this system to the fullest. I do HDR panorama photography. That requires a /lot/ of processing power to merge.
< 1321916469 523110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :both RAM and CPU
< 1321916481 179894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat on GPU too, due to offloading some computations to it
< 1321916491 518055 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most game developers are not masters of optimization.
< 1321916525 578500 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321916530 293638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: there is that too. I can barely play Witcher 2 on ultra. I prefer to play it on ultra minus super sampling
< 1321916541 200722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the xbawks devs use C# and XNA which is actually not good.
< 1321916543 60465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :skyrim I can play on ultra as long as I don't run fraps
< 1321916556 691395 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I offload computations to the BPU.
< 1321916566 134823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: B for bullshit?
< 1321916576 547386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it works for simpler games. Just not for the really high end ones.
< 1321916589 691137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, Magicka and Bastion both use XNA. They work just fine.
< 1321916597 972652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bastion is an awesome game btw.
< 1321916604 647613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: magicka is written in XNA and subsequently cannot run on my laptop.
< 1321916604 692986 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It took me about seven tries to find a letter that you could put in front of "PU" without it being an existing acronym ending in "processing unit". :-(
< 1321916610 475323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: heh.
< 1321916622 615137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: heh
< 1321916631 321376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QPU
< 1321916639 392889 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Taken.
< 1321916643 194148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what
< 1321916643 547914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait, I can only thing of CPU, GPU, FPU. How can that take seven tries?
< 1321916647 564347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meanwhile: I can play WoW, Starcraft II, and Borderlands.
< 1321916648 12445 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :9pu
< 1321916648 105826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum?
< 1321916652 77283 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed <-- AWW
< 1321916652 136756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pu
< 1321916652 774121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges
< 1321916657 774700 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QPU
< 1321916669 232415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess was right
< 1321916684 13788 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess was the same as your guess
< 1321916685 322984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: which other ones were taken?
< 1321916686 853286 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321916690 915036 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that page has no references.
< 1321916695 156861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: monqy transitivity of is yes!
< 1321916696 177814 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see.
< 1321916712 786045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what?
< 1321916717 359700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1321916721 829267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: grammar fail?
< 1321916725 857609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321916734 945099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay maybe
< 1321916737 56875 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPU GPU QPU APU PPU VPU SPU FPU NPU TPU
< 1321916737 330517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well I couldn't parse it, but then English is not my native language.
< 1321916739 186268 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least.
< 1321916741 8614 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where grammar fails, monqy succeeds
< 1321916742 418624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: monqy: transitivity of is, yes!
< 1321916743 467731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well APU I know what it is
< 1321916749 142722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not related to computing
< 1321916751 997384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321916755 139696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that APU too
< 1321916757 393881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetics
< 1321916770 750146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is Auxiliary Power Unit as well
< 1321916776 513323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: monqy: transitivity of "is", yes!
< 1321916777 944082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that better?
< 1321916781 485686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hm okay
< 1321916792 378586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what is the context for it?
< 1321916800 590803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:04 < monqy> my guess was the same as your guess
< 1321916808 706129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :VPU would be vector I guess
< 1321916819 120548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your guess was correct, THEREFORE
< 1321916820 7514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321916823 775755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321916831 726376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321916842 179281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so much more clevre now that I've explained it in detail.
< 1321916860 709360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay CPU, GPU, APU, FPU I know. VPU and QPU I could guess at. That leaves PPU SPU NPU and TPU
< 1321916872 293845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :TPU probably some trusted execution crap
< 1321916879 192104 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :66pu
< 1321916885 352085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope
< 1321916887 904769 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those aren't all!
< 1321916889 543332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellopu
< 1321916892 498486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :time processor unit?
< 1321916899 265646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqypu
< 1321916909 855372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synergistic Processing Unit in the Sony-IBM-Toshiba cell microprocessor <-- heh?
< 1321916915 934497 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMLPU
< 1321916916 778511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Cell
< 1321916916 823682 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃pu
< 1321916919 135469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321916924 956584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you are kidding...
< 1321916930 619960 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kind of.
< 1321916933 905720 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not called by that name.
< 1321916936 710278 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :HARDWARE ACCELERATED XML
< 1321916943 633048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there can't be hardware accelerated XML
< 1321916946 510060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that
< 1321916947 957886 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the IBM zSeries, i I recall correctly, has support for a hardware XML coprocessor.
< 1321916960 877531 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a regular CPU that they turn on in such a way that it only suports XML.
< 1321916964 542833 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you pay less than for a full CPU.
< 1321916964 778449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Network Processing Unit" <-- okaaay
< 1321916977 149318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processor Processing Unit
< 1321916983 608827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_processing_unit <- hm okay
< 1321916989 994164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nope, see link I just game
< 1321916992 217637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gave*
< 1321916992 263061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no my is better
< 1321916992 866788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1321916998 14904 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/hardware/features/zaap/
< 1321917015 802163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's a regular CPU that they turn on in such a way that it only suports XML.
< 1321917015 931099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : And you pay less than for a full CPU.
< 1321917019 320875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crap?
< 1321917054 467017 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they can bin the ones with broken FPUs, perhaps
< 1321917063 506181 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently it does Java too.
< 1321917065 655637 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML doesn't need FDIV
< 1321917067 776175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1321917076 584042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: java does
< 1321917080 560578 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1321917081 634332 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321917092 184546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: besides I doubt they are x86
< 1321917094 624216 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point is just to get you to pay more money.
< 1321917129 928999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM has traditionally offered such dubious "features" on their higher-end stuff.
< 1321917144 61013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321917166 440267 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, their mainframes have at various points offered upgrades up to brand-new CPUs by toggling the right switch.
< 1321917175 811170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321917187 136732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: so they actually had the better CPU in it all along
< 1321917191 992708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that be cost effective?
< 1321917201 645026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CPU is expensive
< 1321917207 202212 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you charge significantly over cost anyways. :)
< 1321917212 690089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1321917233 457464 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mainframe market, IBM has been the sole competitor for several decades.
< 1321917235 163679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but surely it will make the customers disillusioned...
< 1321917240 444861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upleinian groopt
< 1321917247 636767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes these will continue to get more ridiculous)
< 1321917254 836966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wtf was that?
< 1321917257 198833 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The customer base still uses COBOL.
< 1321917266 175044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm.
< 1321917271 549678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kleinian group
< 1321917277 653547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in updoot form
< 1321917278 53354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: insert cobol on cogs link here
< 1321917286 423689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no clue what updoot is
< 1321917298 873097 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you're delayed
< 1321917355 201191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, night →
< 1321917411 862606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my onslaught will be unpredictable and tantalizing.
< 1321917424 393397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will come after actual updates or at my whim.
< 1321917432 476124 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321917468 433955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make the computer game too, including with MegaZeux. Obviously it doesn't do absolutely everything but there are many things can be unusually and is different from other computer game.
< 1321917474 372755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will then slowly begin to question your sanity and distrust all human beings and instead regard them as scoundrels.
< 1321917504 364773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is the second phase, where I reveal my dastardly plan! ah ha ha  ah ha ha.
< 1321917618 543701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also: updoast of groot britain.
< 1321918151 22910 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321918151 130975 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321918155 404601 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321918165 371291 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321918165 416726 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321918165 416848 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321918290 778035 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321918297 615177 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321918570 276548 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321918572 388809 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1321918610 99639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man Egyptians have this protest shit figured out.
< 1321918625 539069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they throw the tear gas grenades back at the police.
< 1321918823 827900 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupy could learn a thing or two.
< 1321919006 540672 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti arfasdfjhadate
< 1321919046 758864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321919058 13967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdkasld
< 1321919063 343946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arhfpsupdart
< 1321919079 167770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do rocrupt ur ensentes
< 1321919137 994541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25
< 1321919140 905573 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quel vinflumicturguerstrighaleakinvar azed bale ossars hoontarinatur harippry tia nintited fidahur asic aequolle lia finfored ronera last arplang grautlmen vics sly lee scham pauryn preting supeisperox
< 1321919180 226339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vinflumicturguerstrighaleakinvar
< 1321919201 701407 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :harippry is good though
< 1321919209 328220 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aequolle too
< 1321919220 897224 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grautlmen
< 1321919281 718758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow pepper hot
< 1321919294 61850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm pain tastes good.
< 1321919357 625883 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grautlmen sounds like something the TF2 spy might say
< 1321919541 820055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reversible graph language sounds like a large memory leak.
< 1321919809 124816 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not reversible enough, then
< 1321919826 559335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm not sure that it will be a "graph language" but its memory layout will be represented by a graph.
< 1321919976 337198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure what you mean. :P
< 1321920054 786841 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make sense that you could delete all data prior to an execution step if you decide to jump back to a particualar execution step
< 1321920080 273603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I was thinking that it would be nice if you could then move forward from there if you wanted.
< 1321920222 863327 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean that a real reversible implementation would physically deconstruct the original data when constructing the new
< 1321920308 729836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't that still imply some sort of incurring memory overhead?
< 1321920318 361555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the "constructing the new part"
< 1321920347 778090 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, but you only use the memory for your current data structure at any time...
< 1321920364 828564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, yes that's how this would works, kind of.
< 1321920367 413531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no not realy.
< 1321920373 370295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the same thing :P
< 1321920395 134879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a notion of "current data" within a larger graph data structure.
< 1321920432 500883 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "current data" i mean all of your current state, of course
< 1321920447 770517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may end up being a tree and not a cyclic graph.
< 1321920454 119716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure.
< 1321920482 587782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on whether or not a node can have more than one ancestor edge.
< 1321920525 295879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I really don't know how "reverse this value" would look like if you have possibly two or more ancestors. nondeterminism I guess?
< 1321920566 615628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki spam is really out of hand
< 1321920598 838697 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: linear lisp to the rescue
< 1321920619 579695 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: linear logic was in my mind
< 1321920686 712104 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/LinearLisp.html
< 1321920824 842544 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, that article is too dijkstraan
< 1321920837 394532 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/LQsort.html
< 1321920904 689580 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321920912 204934 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321921021 792292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Dijkstraan is a good word.
< 1321921190 88472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the Haskell library have operator "bind but use first result value"?
< 1321921203 337598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so.
< 1321921264 561393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: gcc is getting STM, nee-ner nee-ner
< 1321921287 580573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is     Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m a;    What ought its symbol be, and how much would it be used?
< 1321921344 973975 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I saw that >_>
< 1321921360 373480 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My friend across the way told me this, while we both mocked how terrible that is.
< 1321921378 934276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Since it's C, I'll agree with the mocking :P
< 1321921388 658631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT I'M ISSUING A WARNING
< 1321921397 986956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :__transaction_atomic is definitely the best keyword.
< 1321921400 629756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: <<= :P
< 1321921413 285484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ooh, neat, the isolation is only from other transactions.
< 1321921424 704757 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That is for comonads
< 1321921429 89942 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: =>> ?
< 1321921429 263656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So as soon as you access one of these outside of a __transaction_atomic all your guarantees go out the window.
< 1321921442 627240 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That is also for comonads it is <<= with arguments flipped
< 1321921443 398044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: <>>=? (more :P)
< 1321921466 200193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose <>>= can do
< 1321921472 661000 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djini
< 1321921473 64130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot parse command
< 1321921477 948998 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How insanely C-like.
< 1321921604 656309 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djini (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m a
< 1321921604 864675 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn
< 1321921604 910541 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m a
< 1321921604 910653 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list
< 1321921604 983102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a _ = a
< 1321921605 311500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot parse command
< 1321921605 378761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a _ = a
< 1321921605 424294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
< 1321921605 494807 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help
< 1321921605 540210 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 + 1
< 1321921605 876222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands
< 1321921607 146809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2
< 1321921621 619888 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lagging badly
< 1321921676 777262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, lambdabot was
< 1321921733 800686 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was too, the lag thingy was going haywire
< 1321921752 547501 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321921753 686515 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Ooh, neat, the isolation is only from other transactions.   Gregor: So as soon as you access one of these outside of a __transaction_atomic all your guarantees go out the window.  // no shit?
< 1321921766 731940 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, not our fault!
< 1321921773 140351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See, I'm used to decent languages, where doing that is impossible :-)
< 1321921774 478283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What?
< 1321921795 57356 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lambdabot slowdown.
< 1321921796 666734 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Type systems are for losers.
< 1321921802 909947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah I'm sure that's why kmc just joined.
< 1321921811 657670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, looks like "STM" is inaccurate, seems like the work is being done by a company that does hardware TM :P
< 1321921814 463235 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, am I again going to have to explain that I'm not an idiot and I was trying to make a joke?
< 1321921828 648981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Apparently
< 1321921828 998177 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, but it has a software TM.
< 1321921849 252840 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's actually "*TM", where * is filled in with what's appropriate on the current platform.
< 1321921853 780353 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1321921854 357529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sortofmediumware TM
< 1321921917 238996 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way guys, m68k sux.
< 1321921955 969071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks... with GOODNESS.
< 1321921994 793504 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's so far beyond impossible to make anything m68k work in a modern system.
< 1321922010 541957 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulation? Ha. Cross-compilation? As if.
< 1321922027 350555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Emulation is not that hard...
< 1321922037 209104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There are perfectly decent Mac emulators.
< 1321922047 502190 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Most (read: all) do not emulate the MMU, so can only run Mac OS.
< 1321922052 961246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat :P
< 1321922066 590418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often would you expect to use such an operator as I have described?
< 1321922068 248204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could've *sworn* there were emulators that handled A/UX.
< 1321922070 258317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder if you could add so many syntax gimmicks that imperative code in Haskell resembled other imperative code.
< 1321922075 46501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Even Mini vMac? I say this because MINI VMAC'S BUILD SYSTEM IS CLASSIC MAC OS-ONLY AND I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS
< 1321922077 464714 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm yet to find one.
< 1321922084 144739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but operated with monads and type safety underneath.
< 1321922095 858446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How to build the Mini vMac program from the source code.
< 1321922095 973227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First download the source code archive from the download page, a file with the name “minivmac-3.1.3.src.zip”. Extract from this zip file a disk image (named “minivmac-3.1.3.src.dsk”).
< 1321922096 19003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now launch Mini vMac (version 3.0.0 or later), booting from a disk image containing a system folder. (The source code disk image doesn't contain a system folder.) (See the Start page for information about getting started with Mini vMac.)
< 1321922096 19164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mount the source code disk image in Mini vMac. At the top level of this disk is an application named "Build". Launch this application. A text editing window will open in which to type in the desired options."
< 1321922099 666938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LOOK AT THIS!!!!
< 1321922108 575322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "If this option is used by itself, the build system will generate the files needed to compile the standard version of Mini vMac for Macintosh OS X on Intel using Apple's Xcode 2.4.1 development environment."
< 1321922142 830736 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321922144 378144 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: In my opinion, there ought to be macros, that allow you to implement such things as that, but it ought not be a part of standard Haskell.
< 1321922161 594161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It does.
< 1321922172 268115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you do everything in IO with do notation, Haskell looks just like Python.
< 1321922183 207455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite.
< 1321922190 874803 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shame, it'd be really neat to (ab)use X to have a DOS/UNIX/Mac OS setup.
< 1321922192 820311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really does.
< 1321922193 717661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. Even if you use layout it won't be like Python.
< 1321922194 195963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you're using mutable refs.
< 1321922201 36831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the newBlahRef stuff
< 1321922204 822302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and readBlahRef stuff
< 1321922226 402723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (=:) = writeIORef
< 1321922230 957903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: var = newIORef
< 1321922240 78046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ($$)
< 1321922240 360278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ ($$) :: Doc -> Doc -> Doc
< 1321922240 566133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.PrettyPrint ($$) :: Doc -> Doc -> Doc
< 1321922240 611516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.PprLib ($$) :: Doc -> Doc -> Doc
< 1321922245 364426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :($$) = readIORef
< 1321922246 605375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321922255 525903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (^) = readIORef -- needs GHC extension so you can use it postfix
< 1321922264 77831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like (a^), not a^, unfortunately)
< 1321922279 354929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: But anyway, yes:
< 1321922288 70202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://augustss.blogspot.com/2011/07/impredicative-polymorphism-use-case-in.html
< 1321922291 419673 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just want one more arch so I can say my JIT supports a dozen archs.
< 1321922332 147576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which dozen?
< 1321922350 454973 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm cheating by e.g. calling x86 and x86_64 distinct, and powerpc and powerpc64 distinct :P
< 1321922370 406215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is the version on bitbucket the new JIT style?
< 1321922377 549702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look like it, but...
< 1321922386 409434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's in a branch.
< 1321922387 652152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder what the def $: bit is
< 1321922393 166244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which one :P
< 1321922409 257069 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Innit obvious?
< 1321922426 738210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What the fuck is funcelision? Ohh, func elision
< 1321922429 620981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's recordconditional :P
< 1321922442 519734 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those two branches are things that didn't work, but could have :)
< 1321922451 610425 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I wouldn't consider the x86/x86_64 bit a cheat.
< 1321922455 795405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is recordconditional just doing if (compiling) record(...)?
< 1321922463 829534 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yuh.
< 1321922471 33168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 really *is* distinct from x86 in many rather important ways.
< 1321922492 105405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why didn't that work?
< 1321922505 691191 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It would arrange the jumps in a shitty way :(
< 1321922509 215746 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC64, though? Total cheat.
< 1321922519 294782 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Worked on x86[_64], but broke a bunch of other stuff.
< 1321922605 60886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing $: is just another $ but with different precedence or something?
< 1321922615 531323 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HEY THEY'RE DIFFERENTish
< 1321922627 977808 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How 'bout ARM/thumb :P
< 1321922680 594581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I imagine ($) is used for something else.
< 1321922746 780547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also def
< 1321922751 414975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do even?
< 1321922924 60050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask him
< 1321922972 909211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whoops, doesn't work with thumb X-D
< 1321922992 849441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like DUMB.
< 1321923191 493115 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, thumb uses a different branch instruction to go into normal ARM code than it does to go into thumb code, and by default when you call a function pointer it goes to ARM.
< 1321923193 297370 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, boink.
< 1321923262 196361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Jobs  thriving Haskell job economy.
< 1321923274 566473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.haskellers.com/jobs
< 1321923280 264743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there are no active job listings"
< 1321923328 64101 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell should be in the Esoteric list of languages
< 1321923345 292576 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are Esoteric
< 1321923357 911382 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1321923358 69825 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1321923359 556222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://functionaljobs.com/  there are four here, none of which are Haskell.
< 1321923390 545621 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are the Others ?
< 1321923402 57513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://www.tsurucapital.com/en/jobs.html
< 1321923408 960903 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Languages)
< 1321923438 564930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are often referred to as a machine, executing quickly and smartly, while challenging yourself and your colleagues."
< 1321923443 587406 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they got any actual robot applicants
< 1321923453 936480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://corp.galois.com/careers/
< 1321923469 820901 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JLP quote ?
< 1321923487 731484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice pay
< 1321923496 635147 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we throwing Star-Trek quotes yet ?
< 1321923537 450787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"live long and prosper" -gandalf of the uss voyager
< 1321923556 906927 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Insufficient trollery, same franchise used twice.
< 1321923570 387932 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Live long and prosper." - Gandalf, Lord of the Sith
< 1321923596 987001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's funny because you're trolling people by implying that Voyager is part of the Star Trek franchise.
< 1321923612 568946 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321923705 578992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://cufp.org/jobs/senior-architect-leading-investment-bank-f-net has legacy code written in haskell!
< 1321923730 558947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now I just need to convince them that I know F#!
< 1321923835 863346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upstadter's dooterfly
< 1321924062 772359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In April 2009, when told about his Wikipedia article, he commented, "[It] is filled with inaccuracies, and it kind of depresses me." When asked why he didn't correct it, he replied, "The next day someone will fix it back."[25] (In Aug. 2011 Hofstadter said he is happy with the article and the only inaccurate part of his Wikipedia entry was the previous sentence because the inaccuracies were subsequently fixed.[citation need
< 1321924070 916650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed])
< 1321924080 840186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic Hofstadter
< 1321924117 119234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also unverified
< 1321924282 553497 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's funny because you're implying that Star Trek didn't end with DS9.
< 1321924326 694623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pikhq: Gregor: you're all implying that people care about Star Trek
< 1321924336 637397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I find greatly amusing.
< 1321924343 877262 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: We do.
< 1321924385 862145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vacuous implication: you do not exist, therefore the premise is false.
< 1321924404 180798 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, TNG was pretty damned popular when it aired...
< 1321924419 184837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :subsequently everyone realized Star Trek is lame.
< 1321924439 990086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hater
< 1321924506 47141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the 70's VW Beetle, the windshield-wiper fluid dispenser was powered by the air pressure in the spare tire in the trunk.
< 1321924508 983474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....
< 1321924514 158707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup!
< 1321924521 554736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insane.
< 1321924541 217713 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The car was designed around being cheap.
< 1321924577 402038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: not having full spare tires
< 1321924597 539329 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also had an air-cooled engine.
< 1321924600 962906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted most spare tires have higher air pressure than normal tires because people typically don't refill them.
< 1321924611 91129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, most engines are "air-cooled" in some sense.
< 1321924619 601919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you're saying "it has no cooling system"
< 1321924645 886513 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Air-cooling" refers to a "cooling" system based exclusively around the flow of air.
< 1321924663 296296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. tell me more. :P
< 1321924674 851764 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is "you're a fucking moron".
< 1321924758 273075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of a cooling system I guess.
< 1321924880 473936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even in an engine with a broken liquid-cooling system and without a specifically design air-cooling system, the engine is still cooled significantly by airflow
< 1321924895 296992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the point that you can drive a car with a broken radiator as long as you're going somewhat fast.
< 1321924904 754091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't stop or slow down very much.
< 1321924960 387525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or live in a particularly cold area.
< 1321925031 567647 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321925048 210543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "car person" I'm friends with tried to tell me that the liquid-cooling system of a car is not comparable to a computer cooling system.
< 1321925052 28231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in the case of a car
< 1321925057 281743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "bringing cold in"
< 1321925068 419914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in a computer it's "taking hot out"
< 1321925068 786836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why people don't liquid-cool computers
< 1321925071 775566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the exact same methods
< 1321925080 805880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321925085 469547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...he's stupid. :P
< 1321925113 451318 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321925122 534964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very similar, cars just have more heat to deal with.
< 1321925138 266771 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bringing cold in
< 1321925143 963767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yeah
< 1321925167 653154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: kind of like how refrigerators "make cold"
< 1321925174 476189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it's different.
< 1321925177 837548 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because cold is a real thing! :P
< 1321925246 888606 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321925263 686211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of baffled that cars have radiator fans.
< 1321925278 684493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that they typically have a huge volume of airflow passing through the radiator.
< 1321925286 294396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the fans are there for when the car is moving slowly.
< 1321925289 409829 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when idling, I guess?
< 1321925292 591029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1321925294 888782 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321925298 418473 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, when idling your engine's not going to be very hot.
< 1321925306 622729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, relatively
< 1321925310 204324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still needs cooling
< 1321925317 580270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heat is always relative, anyways. :P
< 1321925342 889388 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1321925421 225035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot that goes into making an internal combution not destroy itself and everything it's connected to.
< 1321925447 840281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, to limit that destruction to something more manageable and slowly developing.
< 1321925461 334733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*internal combustion engine
< 1321925516 482495 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, something that functions by rapid controlled explosions is a bit hard to engineer. :P
< 1321925557 933456 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321925574 561159 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321925663 709155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK (but applying only to England), the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) Regulations 2002 (Statutory Instrument 2002 No. 1808)[14] introduced the concept of a "stationary idling offence". This means that a driver can be ordered "by an authorised person ... upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle" and a "person who fails to comply .
< 1321925670 436213 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321925677 450007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... shall be guilty of an offence and be  liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3  on the standard scale"
< 1321925689 895439 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321925720 67020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you there, sir! either stop wasting that meager amount of fuel, or expend vastly larger quantities moving somewhere this instant!
< 1321925926 590277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines someone evading the police after being ordered to stop idling.
< 1321926450 602991 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's illegal to idle a car unnecessarily in norway as well
< 1321926592 525451 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-57.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321926599 652135 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-132.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321926649 581243 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321926649 867040 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1321926649 912308 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321926683 272814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in or close to settlements
< 1321926743 513707 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both noise and pollution are listed as reasons
< 1321926745 969184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1321926747 2927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
< 1321926753 757474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a cool fucking thing.
< 1321926787 604397 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uk people may consider "close to settlements" to be redundant *MWAHAHAHA*)
< 1321926849 98275 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi
< 1321926880 943706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem is there's no way to really balance the fuel/air mixture, so you get basically equivalent fuel efficiency for comparable power.
< 1321926902 595472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's not really any benefit other than more power (still at the expense of an equal amount of fuel efficiency)
< 1321926959 716384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: very impolite!!!!!! we have lots of hills and farms
< 1321926967 131306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could make like... a 3L 4-rotor engine and get the same power as a really really big piston engine.
< 1321927005 925699 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O KAY
< 1321927065 848853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Mazda RX-8 for example gets 232 horsepower from 1.3 litres of displacement from 2 rotors.
< 1321927104 770309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the engine in my car gets 200 horsepower from  3.1 litres of displacement from 6 pistons
< 1321927115 70919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a big difference in size and complexity.
< 1321927159 651926 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :150 horses, 40 camels and 1 orangutang
< 1321927246 541023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2011-November/023072.html
< 1321927378 648889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: neat.
< 1321927385 617095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :top of /r/haskell
< 1321927387 768832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this is the kind of stuff I want to do.
< 1321927413 799672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't necessarily have to be Haskell.
< 1321927421 874944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't want to write /boring/ software
< 1321927434 362718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for the entire extent of my career.
< 1321927440 951397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will concede a few years.
< 1321927473 569175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have thought of that before going into programming.
< 1321927572 255913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, note that: despite the similarities in engine power between my car and the Mazda RX-8, the power-to-weight ratio is completely different.
< 1321927604 173849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the Mazda is about 1800 kgs lighter.
< 1321927698 376937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can take anything out of my car to make it lighter.
< 1321927711 351869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if I remove the entire body.
< 1321927715 211212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's a good idea.
< 1321927730 520029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cars are not a good place to hide bodies anyway
< 1321927741 325395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one actually needs those big heavy doors .
< 1321927745 515928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just slowing them down and wasting fuel.
< 1321927756 551123 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: aerodynamics
< 1321927794 523100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if my cabin is a open frame with seats I'll have wicked awesome aerodynamics. :P
< 1321927836 675337 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by "wicked awesome" you mean "violent but inefficient", i guess
< 1321927956 924546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, my car will just intake so much oxygen that it creates a localized vacuum.
< 1321927959 663971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sound physics
< 1321927970 484255 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321927994 701957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you look way cooler when you're driving in a spacesuit.
< 1321928067 359368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: stig
< 1321928105 670218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers actually donating $10 to Wikipedia
< 1321928114 133366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: excellent example.
< 1321928127 566420 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321928165 553006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines an engine powerful enough to suck all of the atmosphere off of the Earth.
< 1321928183 139503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins planning his doomsday device.
< 1321928368 83464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should expand this proposal to unix-like systems.
< 1321928425 121989 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they need a lot of air cooling
< 1321928478 206621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321928528 383876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is prone to turbulent subject change.
< 1321928547 765325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: Worcestershire sauce is deliciously applicable to anything that tastes savory.
< 1321928598 516700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what that is youre not englsijh
< 1321928685 630159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure I do.
< 1321928691 708725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad preson
< 1321928712 315687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Lea and Perrins recipe used in the states is ALMOST the same as the one in great brittania
< 1321928746 602952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"almost"
< 1321928762 549574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it only changes the kind of vinegar and is pretty much exactly the same otherwise.
< 1321928785 78805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW?
< 1321928805 163142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems   "Median[original research?]"
< 1321928813 546032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistical calculations = original research
< 1321928839 96409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah to worse vinegar
< 1321928861 696367 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :White instead of malt.
< 1321928953 795817 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone say vinegar?
< 1321928957 5084 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like vinegar.
< 1321928960 417760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, JBethJenkinsj has spammed their user page twice :(
< 1321928963 158416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice!!!
< 1321928963 203592 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like balsamic vinegar in particular.
< 1321928972 102161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Good person.
< 1321928987 258265 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balsamic vinegar is probably the best substance one can consume.
< 1321929001 149432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sips his bottle of balsamic vinegar.
< 1321929014 927425 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been known to do that.
< 1321929018 434688 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In small quantities.)
< 1321929030 160116 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look up my name on the Google, you find an "Executive Profile" which mentions how I like balsamic vinegar.
< 1321929034 447712 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could get rid of that.
< 1321929048 740754 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sue them
< 1321929051 242291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to complain, but then I realised I've sipped small quantities of vanilla essence before.
< 1321929054 891335 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good advice
< 1321929126 490204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how no one makes Windows supercomputers.
< 1321929197 633568 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321929306 362049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good application for chart-making?
< 1321929342 851861 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :business meetings
< 1321929366 400581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what's a good software application that creates charts.
< 1321929384 178956 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :picky, picky
< 1321929388 538624 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321929442 609722 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321929456 846992 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you randall munroe for overruling my browser's decision on how to view large pictures.  i think i shall read something else.
< 1321929504 73277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what decision is that
< 1321929517 47815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, with a zoom thing
< 1321929528 66447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think that's reasonable since it's a very zoom ui type thing, and most browsers only offer one level of zoom...
< 1321929532 724095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sh, you just made xkcd's hits go up.
< 1321929536 642275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's awkward to move around in 2d with them
< 1321929563 158085 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you make the same complaint about google maps?
< 1321929593 58055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because they actually change the data displayed
< 1321929628 86194 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd rather they just gave me one bitmap and let me zoom myself.
< 1321929632 553074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: holy crap this is an awesome chart but I have no idea how to go about reading it.
< 1321929634 426532 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a lot more sense.
< 1321929707 770494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would think oerjan were reasonable if browsers actually had any kind of sane image navigation/zooming ui.
< 1321929708 757941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't
< 1321929741 575264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this chart must be why xkcd has been so shitty.
< 1321929751 775912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randall's been compiling sources for this thing.
< 1321929753 261712 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe what mostly irritates me is that it doesn't actually fill my browser window
< 1321929782 686601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also it steals history
< 1321929791 680780 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit now i'm going to have to actually look at it anyhow
< 1321929823 718628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds the maximize button XD
< 1321929919 697732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: first they complain that they can't bookmark it, then you let them bookmark it and they complain it fills history...
< 1321930308 717010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever been a bee
< 1321930329 939941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably.
< 1321930335 302305 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, not in reality.
< 1321930362 169129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probable someone has had a weird dream or ingested a large quantity of hallucinogens and felt like a bee.
< 1321930372 254562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. you're so unhelpful
< 1321930387 822445 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals the sacred chao
< 1321930405 840199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: were you expecting a legitimate answer?
< 1321930412 226380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVIOSUYL quintopia ;Q;Q;Q;Q;Q;
< 1321930434 720195 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you want it?
< 1321930454 293868 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am willing to sell to a good home at a reasonable price
< 1321930456 546685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :q q q q q qq q q q q q q q q q hi i wasnt intending to ping the quintopia but i pressed q and tab and the quintopia popped up
< 1321930458 489121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thems the breaks,
< 1321930465 558855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the breaks thatm ben broken
< 1321930475 442777 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sound sleepy
< 1321930479 201240 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :want a beer?
< 1321930588 453688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sleepy i just act like this sometimes
< 1321930593 896712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually when sleepy admittedly
< 1321931699 394068 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321932203 709950 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321932540 76574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi
< 1321932545 567935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321932547 364818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing?
< 1321932557 99884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing a reply to kallisti on irc
< 1321932567 773955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting enter
< 1321932573 606660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing another line and hitting enter again
< 1321932574 300296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help
< 1321932599 310880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you doing in the more long-term interpretation that most people would interpret.
< 1321932614 415218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying, very slowly
< 1321932624 151800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like...
< 1321932625 309090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a helpful answer
< 1321932629 394476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :progressive present tense
< 1321932633 683189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ongoing actions
< 1321932636 788830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the present
< 1321932641 617001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from dying
< 1321932666 406926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very little
< 1321932672 393202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I WILL NOT GIVE UP UNTIL YOU ANSWER NORMALLy -- oh okay
< 1321932674 955736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am idly ``surfing the net'' while idly ``waiting for someone tos ay something interesting''
< 1321932681 135084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tosa y
< 1321932685 32116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey me too!
< 1321932687 687783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact
< 1321932692 619800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only did I look at that xkcd map thing
< 1321932695 886641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I went to xkcdsucks
< 1321932697 573303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably
< 1321932700 374790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest waste of time ever.
< 1321932722 239291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcdsucks got so crappy
< 1321932728 991532 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was always that way
< 1321932734 148933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I wasn't there for the Golden Age.
< 1321932737 976506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be a bit less so
< 1321932766 137301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one thing you can say: they are very persistent.
< 1321932776 41408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dedicated to the job.
< 1321932785 990242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of critisizing xkcd however horribly.
< 1321932798 853912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i was going to warn people that this is actually a brand-new comic that just visually resembles the last comic a lot, but then i figured, huh, PROBABLY my readers are used to that by now" --Dinosaur Comics caption
< 1321932814 97769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: actually a different guy writes it nowadays.
< 1321932816 29814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he's annoying)
< 1321932822 190444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even more annoying than the last guy)
< 1321932829 238607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there were multiple writers.
< 1321932834 272386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are
< 1321932840 694598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321932841 256614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not
< 1321932843 352725 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are
< 1321932844 210488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :were
< 1321932845 549920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help english
< 1321932847 467302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were guest posts. dunno how frequent they are nowadays
< 1321932852 162381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't: read it
< 1321932853 506597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^stylr
< 1321932854 243155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1321932855 25167 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1321932859 779541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: exposit
< 1321932860 359394 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have i, perhaps, a hint, utahraptor!
< 1321932863 20559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow amazing
< 1321932864 250762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: have you?
< 1321932864 969320 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a " pg-13" picto-story
< 1321932869 959061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: the best rating for a picto-story!
< 1321932875 666120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :????
< 1321932876 450230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi
< 1321932878 626727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: TALK TO FUNGOT
< 1321932880 260437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: CONTINUATION
< 1321932880 493804 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: as a man concerned, t-rex, that going shopping was your default activity?' then tony and louisa q were two people in love! romantic love, but there's a rude jerk, and then they both said the next few days were going to me, the omniscient. the dude has to sleep! superman could laser him from orbit while he's having nappy times! enter only if you have a valid passport to dreamland!"
< 1321932905 642253 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ZYGOHISTOMORPHIC PREPROMORPHISM
< 1321932905 749195 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: here, i'll prove it, too, will take what i can get a little of that back with them, dromiceiomimus for a perfectly awesome introductory phrase that is forbidden to me unless i had married at that age myself...hmm...
< 1321932907 767398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this style is the best.
< 1321932916 20811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1321932919 307729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those hidden phrases
< 1321932923 493438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only attainable by self-marriage
< 1321932954 295598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is qwantz
< 1321932993 211972 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, my intuition says that in "at that age myself" "myself" cannot be an ordinary object
< 1321933062 829268 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, kallisti is CakeProphet.
< 1321933066 358688 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is disappointed.
< 1321933067 146699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321933070 905280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321933072 305741 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we had some new blood.
< 1321933081 840395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: YOU ARE DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE IT IS ME????
< 1321933086 560496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries
< 1321933114 35246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://qwantz.com/
< 1321933126 198083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz
< 1321933126 769538 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
< 1321933128 880180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1321933160 181730 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Gimme some double exclamation marks!!
< 1321933160 276135 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: are you a person who uses phrases at incorrect times? but then what's more likely: that we're the only ones for cows would say, hello t-rex, what is the deal"
< 1321933163 322121 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Gimme some double exclamation marks!!
< 1321933163 462379 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you all suck! friends again at breakfast, you, t-rex. i'll bring some vegetables and i'll show you!
< 1321933165 243754 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Gimme some double exclamation marks!!
< 1321933165 345438 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you must have had crazy dreams last night and hey, look, this was their word of the day last week, i will now share this secret. this is one secret, no more!
< 1321933168 178015 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless.
< 1321933173 787697 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaur comics are boring.
< 1321933197 443847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xzgrep -c '!' qwantz.xz
< 1321933197 535008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13503
< 1321933197 621394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xzgrep -c '!!' qwantz.xz
< 1321933197 666747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :866
< 1321933205 279750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Dinosaur Comics also feature double exclamation marks only infrequently!
< 1321933208 246370 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn kallisti is a former prophet swearing off his pastry deity
< 1321933210 861365 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that.
< 1321933215 663748 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, really?
< 1321933224 338529 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, right, it's just single exclamation marks.
< 1321933225 870455 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or triple?
< 1321933228 259944 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember.
< 1321933232 467971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That pattern matches triple, too.
< 1321933276 399845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You heard it here first: Only 6.41% of Dinosaur Comics lines with an exclamation mark feature more than one exclamation mark in a row.
< 1321933341 893999 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking
< 1321933364 114806 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinosaur comics r stil dum lol
< 1321933384 461103 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where is a website i can upload a small binary file without using flash?
< 1321933401 758533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is flash relevant
< 1321933415 896835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: almost as dumb as you (are for not liking (dinosaur comics))
< 1321933420 839206 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash upload is broken on android
< 1321933465 823474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: how small are we talking?
< 1321933482 892632 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh less than a gig. not sure exactly.
< 1321933490 498952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: try sprung
< 1321933491 816300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1321933499 827142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: less than a gig?
< 1321933503 715186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :small is < 5 megs
< 1321933505 932541 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme get exact
< 1321933525 792486 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :69.5
< 1321933526 772598 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :M
< 1321933532 856232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so not small.
< 1321933538 941885 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think small is less than 100M
< 1321933542 851482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're wrong
< 1321933545 487155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, filebin would have worked
< 1321933548 293894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it limited to 50 megabytes
< 1321933548 533884 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since capacitites and speeds have gone up
< 1321933552 236143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: dropbox?
< 1321933553 506074 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I heard you're in Northumberland.
< 1321933569 263196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Nah, Land's End. Also that place at the top of Scotland?
< 1321933571 853568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :England is a torus.
< 1321933574 124412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1321933575 206224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Britain.
< 1321933592 330491 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what these words are.
< 1321933596 501492 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What place at the top of Scotland?
< 1321933674 264282 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Land's End is totally not Northumberland! Which one is you?
< 1321933688 103518 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropbox is an application, not a website. can visit website. cannot install application.
< 1321933696 685698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: cool! you're wrong.
< 1321933717 601857 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a upload link on their website that i'm missing?
< 1321933720 751242 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just checked
< 1321933721 836728 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your phone can't run rsync?
< 1321933725 266133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you make an account first?
< 1321933731 850898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a fancy "log in" link.
< 1321933737 125192 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew registration
< 1321933756 371414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I gotta upload this relatively big file and it's important enough to ask on irc for ~5 minutes but a username, password and email??
< 1321933757 545816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO FAR.
< 1321933784 365202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: actually wait
< 1321933787 269550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should let me invite you
< 1321933792 181435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can increase my cap
< 1321933793 539913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321933804 40044 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropbox is evil.
< 1321933826 483540 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they do have a basic uploader
< 1321933829 542602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Are we talking, like, Cthulhu evil?
< 1321933831 617831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they also crash browser
< 1321933832 905630 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1321933833 199441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is at a fierce 4.9 GBs thanks to invites.
< 1321933865 639426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, wait!
< 1321933870 87141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could invite all of my other emails.
< 1321933871 119265 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Like, read :: Read a => String -> a evil.
< 1321933884 771782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: read isn't /that/ evil.
< 1321933888 158906 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321933890 859402 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1321933893 832699 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropbox crashes browser
< 1321933895 738826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I did that.
< 1321933896 843393 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :other sggests?
< 1321933897 188729 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'a i'a dropbox
< 1321933900 521036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what's your email?
< 1321933901 779330 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what?
< 1321933903 190244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1321933903 802756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It doesn't take effect until the other email invites, IIRC.
< 1321933904 11195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1321933909 182680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a real pain.
< 1321933913 974220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOTALLY WORTH IT
< 1321933914 726305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it anyway though, 'cuz I was bored.
< 1321933919 795641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't use dropbox.
< 1321933923 429929 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know why
< 1321933926 642453 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read isn't as evil as Dropbox?
< 1321933927 878157 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree.
< 1321933934 965816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I basically use my Public folder to link people screenshots and other random stuff
< 1321933938 407726 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropbox does GPL violations and all sorts of things.
< 1321933941 227151 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true.
< 1321933942 493279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and occasionally LEGALLY SHARE NON-COPYRIGHT MATERIAL
< 1321933955 470228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hmm, got a link?
< 1321933960 361525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goggles dropbox gpl.
< 1321933969 409400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees nothing about violations.
< 1321933975 965005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds "violations".
< 1321933993 131282 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1321933994 193948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only finds http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2011/02/msg00367.html without context.
< 1321934001 205379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if there was some horrible irc client plugin that sent a message about every google query you made.
< 1321934004 491275 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeViolateCopyright :: DropBox -> a
< 1321934014 409231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I wouldn't install it.
< 1321934032 46736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it were mandatory as part of the IRC protocol?
< 1321934034 341780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINE THAT UNIVERSE
< 1321934063 538064 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there's probably an mirc plugin for that
< 1321934067 725528 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-132.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321934069 559348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321934080 255563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: hot goats in sweaters
< 1321934085 850261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: hot goats in sweaters 2
< 1321934092 594325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: lukewarm goats in sweaters???
< 1321934097 81459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goats. just goats. work with me here
< 1321934105 572645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what is the species name for goat
< 1321934112 875678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: capras. any capras!
< 1321934113 425800 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :capra something
< 1321934120 601927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: capra aegagagrus hircus
< 1321934122 743121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: wow fuck you
< 1321934128 275008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to uninstall irc
< 1321934131 569268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to uninstall irc google
< 1321934138 881928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: this is so embarrassing
< 1321934156 571011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goat porn
< 1321934159 845559 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to ban elliott
< 1321934167 850752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: bing
< 1321934171 595964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: yahoo search
< 1321934174 382812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: fungus applications
< 1321934182 473442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION binged for: does bing send irc messages
< 1321934190 621556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yahooed for: does yahoo send irc messages
< 1321934199 189943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION altavistaed for: google alternatives
< 1321934224 361129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: XNA
< 1321934233 279066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: skyrim muffle
< 1321934241 820320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: naked atheists on bikes
< 1321934252 117566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: isaac asimov secret furry
< 1321934261 993974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: irc cakeprophet
< 1321934263 429162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god.
< 1321934267 496867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: evidence for/against goat theory
< 1321934272 178687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: pro/cons of goat theory
< 1321934285 269741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: psychiatrists near Jasper, GA
< 1321934291 779908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: did isaac asimov have a deviantart
< 1321934315 434283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: cake prophecies
< 1321934315 501269 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goats in government
< 1321934328 538255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: are goats people
< 1321934336 319206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: ...can goats give consent
< 1321934352 302579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: ghetto stories
< 1321934358 402214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: Egypt revolution
< 1321934364 231710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to avoid being seen on a farm 
< 1321934367 399309 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321934379 623006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to remove lines from irc log
< 1321934385 351165 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why jasper, ga?
< 1321934389 367265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: percentage of server programming jobs to desktop application jobs fuckhow d I word this.
< 1321934393 451359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because that's where I live
< 1321934406 191985 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. i'm not far from there atm
< 1321934413 929704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh? whereabouts?
< 1321934417 960669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: are goats real
< 1321934430 796705 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: bestiality in northumberland
< 1321934431 200442 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am camped out behind blood mountain in slaughter gap atm
< 1321934433 727096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goat python developers
< 1321934438 478535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: whut
< 1321934453 342375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: why you should learn linux
< 1321934461 771422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: @ download
< 1321934467 493762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "@ download" FUCK YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT
< 1321934468 955577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm pretty sure you're just making shit up.
< 1321934492 41560 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321934495 131426 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321934495 948932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "kallisti" prophet or hoax
< 1321934499 947515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "kallisti" cakes
< 1321934504 329625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: define:syzygy
< 1321934514 682225 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321934527 906823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what do i do if a lawyer calls me on the telephone and talks in a spooky voice but then i realise im not holding my telephone and i get teleported to hell??
< 1321934544 612785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is toe-plucking fatal
< 1321934555 194144 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: between suches and blairsville i guess
< 1321934565 690206 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: help what do I do if I'm  bleeding
< 1321934570 343388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is toe-plucking REALLY fatal
< 1321934576 85556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NO 911 INFORMATION ON GOOGLE -files suit
< 1321934583 93466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: toe-plucking therapists
< 1321934584 250756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I've heard of the latter
< 1321934588 457870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to stop plucking toes
< 1321934598 608551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: like nicotine patches but for toes? so that you don't pluck them
< 1321934599 703349 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think Google supports @-substitution.
< 1321934612 919644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: suches ga
< 1321934616 79045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: blackmarket used toes
< 1321934620 876251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: blackmarket used toes (clean or dirty)
< 1321934623 793249 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321934637 157394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to usurp oerjan site:wikihow.com
< 1321934645 119527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: not incredibly far no.
< 1321934659 305786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goat "Directory index" inurl:.avi
< 1321934661 656970 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how to /ignore in irc
< 1321934681 787873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I could drive to suches in 23 minutes
< 1321934687 175098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to explain to shachaf that this is at most half as annoying as I usually am
< 1321934692 215224 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: should one stop biting fingers when seeing bone
< 1321934692 605161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably more like 15 minutes.
< 1321934712 165143 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could walk to suches in a day
< 1321934722 85990 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suches life
< 1321934725 489825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321934726 706122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: should one stop biting fingers when there's only your lips left and you're bleeding so much
< 1321934730 636571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah how do you even pronounce suches
< 1321934765 485760 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: elliott
< 1321934768 555767 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: elliott hird
< 1321934770 565436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what is the emergency number for my area
< 1321934777 937893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: northumberland map
< 1321934779 603031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In the dictionary?
< 1321934789 170583 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: northumberland people search
< 1321934793 610094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Northumberland map, n. see "unchartered territory"
< 1321934809 172208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: surgical bone saw
< 1321934816 819499 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: surgical scalpel
< 1321934821 562001 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: land's end detectives for hire
< 1321934825 4965 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: surgical tool kit sales
< 1321934840 323685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That sounds like a really good TV show premise.
< 1321934846 742636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: battery powered bone drill
< 1321934848 247034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE SOLVES CASES... WHERE NO OTHER DETECTIVE DARES
< 1321934853 223168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: soldering iron
< 1321934860 603457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to cauterize wounds
< 1321934861 861633 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: diy transplantations
< 1321934867 278813 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how to lure 16 year olds
< 1321934872 380772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to avoid calculated torture/murder by prophet
< 1321934873 737692 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: elliott hird true age
< 1321934884 540632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: artificial aging strategies
< 1321934886 27006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to clamp arteries with a hemostat
< 1321934888 594059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: artificial aging pills cheap
< 1321934895 795404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: arteries in the upper arm
< 1321934904 5192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to remove arteries (safe method)
< 1321934906 481400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: arteries in the upper leg
< 1321934927 907958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: 100 cc syringe
< 1321934944 287437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to get veterinary certification 
< 1321934946 882321 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: why do people use brand names
< 1321934951 430217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to disguise horse as you
< 1321934958 529732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to become horse
< 1321934958 939476 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: soviet russia
< 1321934961 446283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: are horses immortal
< 1321934966 699492 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1321934969 16291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to acquire tranquilizer
< 1321934969 671798 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: horses vs goats
< 1321934980 337486 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kidneys for sale
< 1321934989 255054 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: horse-goat hybrid
< 1321934997 420385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to blackmail copumpkin
< 1321935000 792573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: are horses immoral
< 1321935011 123270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to become a centaur
< 1321935027 170919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: nerves in neck of horse
< 1321935030 130188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: used organs "NON-FUNCTIONING" site:ebay.co.uk
< 1321935038 239731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: nerves in human midsection
< 1321935045 482808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: can childhood dreams survive beyond death
< 1321935055 921370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: cryonics zimbabwe
< 1321935057 692042 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked down
< 1321935058 921266 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to make elliott, kallisti, and shachaf shut the fuck up
< 1321935065 998054 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin++
< 1321935073 553833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is it okay if oerjan does it too
< 1321935084 711521 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles for: why don't #haskellers have humor
< 1321935084 973963 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's have some old-fashioned esolanging in here now.
< 1321935085 19372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to communicate passive aggressive indirectly through mock google search queries
< 1321935086 329844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: oerjan moral yardstick goat
< 1321935094 427508 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome copumpkin
< 1321935097 128266 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321935104 131079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "international hub" espionage?
< 1321935117 579098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: worst esolang
< 1321935118 14828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick me, this must end before it gets boring
< 1321935118 313949 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: why can't oerjan see that that was a haskeller's attempt at humor
< 1321935125 528861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goat esolang
< 1321935128 994707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It never wasn't!
< 1321935132 851183 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: centaurs and esolangs
< 1321935133 318052 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is done.
< 1321935135 322769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to fake quotes convincingly
< 1321935140 929590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: fake beard
< 1321935142 285434 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: the human skewer
< 1321935144 768067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: does shachaf have a beard
< 1321935150 210778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: shachaf's beard (used) site:ebay.co.uk
< 1321935158 819555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: effective means of incapacitating humans
< 1321935164 605811 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/!\
< 1321935166 834948 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: john grows tired of his left nipple
< 1321935168 715601 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that.
< 1321935172 708272 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: best esolang kim jong-il
< 1321935178 950405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: david slowed slightly as his ears
< 1321935185 830784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to rofl via google queries
< 1321935197 117108 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: intelligent calcium black market
< 1321935203 329915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: why do some people pronounce query in a completely retarded way.
< 1321935221 762146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to become a chicken site:interpol.int
< 1321935229 76337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: nasa cosplay
< 1321935245 175270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: C clamp for restraining large animals
< 1321935245 393800 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to #-blah.
< 1321935254 13824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-blah is the best.
< 1321935259 892904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a thing?
< 1321935263 442876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick me and kallisti and end this now
< 1321935276 774590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's just Sgeo
< 1321935277 726392 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric === fix (++ "-blah")
< 1321935284 718225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: sgeo is in there?
< 1321935285 694626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously?
< 1321935290 758774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only person
< 1321935296 894622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You need p-adic strings for that.
< 1321935313 623371 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I have is q-adic strings.
< 1321935318 32100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's ostensibly for botspam.
< 1321935322 456655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: But usually we just do that in here.
< 1321935328 114983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: am I robot?
< 1321935333 859113 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: So Cale might be going to Hac Boston.
< 1321935334 528320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only went in there when it was mentioned in here
< 1321935338 922640 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh nice
< 1321935339 842202 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do I get my kickback?
< 1321935343 492295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is a creepy lurker.
< 1321935343 818799 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: bug him to sign up soon
< 1321935347 878971 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause ed's list is full
< 1321935352 716922 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: He would still need to get a passport.
< 1321935359 593831 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I might be going or not and I'm not sure yet.
< 1321935365 422261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hac Boston is in Northumberland, right?
< 1321935368 621286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like Boston.
< 1321935373 789456 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321935376 982456 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should come
< 1321935383 195536 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boston-on-tyne
< 1321935390 108980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: channel takeover irc
< 1321935396 225696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: ok. northumberland is pretty small so just let me know the day before!
< 1321935403 141630 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :will do
< 1321935407 280620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: directions to boston, northumberland
< 1321935414 353062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: are minors allowed in boston
< 1321935422 217548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: "boston tea party" biscuits?
< 1321935423 670541 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321935425 825907 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321935425 871113 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1321935425 871247 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321935429 71138 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: are farts edible
< 1321935433 782669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: boston tea party attendance
< 1321935445 708437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: boston tea party 2011 hac boston
< 1321935461 338734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: turkey surfing
< 1321935463 395610 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They only have cookies. No biscuits.
< 1321935466 634604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: cyprus surfing
< 1321935471 367763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: surgery metaphor esoteric language
< 1321935480 125431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have to google the weirder ones to make sure it's not something real. "turkey surfing" isn't something real.)
< 1321935500 227013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: can eyeballs be reattached
< 1321935504 877513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: can eyeballs be reattached after being slept on
< 1321935515 324411 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: guiness record number of eyeballs
< 1321935537 72107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: eyeball surfing
< 1321935551 161466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: evidence flat earth
< 1321935565 2184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the flat earth society's forums so much
< 1321935565 324465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: anarchist convention near jasper, GA
< 1321935574 371236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: evidence for oblong earth
< 1321935579 341769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: are anarchists people
< 1321935580 966992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: never even considered that such a thing existed
< 1321935582 538129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's beautiful
< 1321935586 92519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be FlatEarthWiki
< 1321935588 584347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh you're missing the fuck out!!!
< 1321935589 319299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is
< 1321935593 793276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://theflatearthsociety.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
< 1321935594 193144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321935595 402124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or isn't
< 1321935599 97514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ConspiracyWiki
< 1321935605 859617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/, I especially recommend "Flat Earth Debate", "Flat Earth Believers" section
< 1321935611 616057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter is the best because, they verify people before letting them in
< 1321935612 395124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: flat earth anarchist revolution
< 1321935617 864503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last posted topic
< 1321935619 978427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Four Humours"
< 1321935622 771442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two down from that
< 1321935625 6470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prayer Facing East"
< 1321935628 831509 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely no one on that forum is serious?
< 1321935629 9324 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: flat earth. flearth
< 1321935631 125860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :three down from that "Results of my study"
< 1321935633 110649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: HAHAHAHA!
< 1321935636 383512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you betcha
< 1321935640 410999 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: time cube evidence
< 1321935643 614981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what ARE birds
< 1321935652 327398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how best to thank ants
< 1321935658 345878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I walked several thousand miles, and didn't notice any curvature. what's up with that?"
< 1321935659 959588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "little mouse" top 40
< 1321935669 932433 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, it's arguably a beautiful way to get people to think about the difference between evidence and proof, etc.
< 1321935676 374039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: could birds evolve back into dinosaurs?
< 1321935679 884858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no its... you dont understand
< 1321935685 215549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are literally flat earth believers on there
< 1321935686 687092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321935691 240597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are thousands of pages of debate
< 1321935693 873008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAQs
< 1321935698 245825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing
< 1321935709 225071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: the figuratively flat earth
< 1321935715 305769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: risk of atomic combustion with goedelisation
< 1321935722 358485 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: what can the flat earth teach us about morality
< 1321935722 403706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: langford basilisk real snakes?
< 1321935728 517381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to fall down stairs
< 1321935728 661484 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the debates necessarily imply anything
< 1321935754 352050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I suggest spending a day reading the believers and debate forum
< 1321935774 579202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is 2-sphere homeomorphic to infinite flat plane
< 1321935774 676690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is up to you to decide whether anyone can really be that backwards, insane and committed, or that completely stubborn, respectively
< 1321935774 833856 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: elliott hird gullible
< 1321935778 746815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is 2-sphere homeomorphic to finite flat plane
< 1321935783 217157 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: will elliott hird believe anything
< 1321935785 425856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: where is the end of the world?
< 1321935796 45744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it took me a few weeks of reading the forum to be convinced that people actually believe it :P
< 1321935798 833796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a real society btw
< 1321935805 48353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society
< 1321935816 736321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes it's certainly real, to some people at least.
< 1321935824 778706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is breathing possible on a 2-sphere
< 1321935832 575244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: risk of 4-dimensional entanglement while skateboarding
< 1321935843 755527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to breathe ghosts
< 1321935848 942518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to breathe goats
< 1321935853 263597 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: the earth as analytic and algebraic topology of locally Euclidean metrization of infinitely differentiable Riemannian manifold
< 1321935856 431450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: risk of travel through fourth dimension in lifetime
< 1321935862 836508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: real numbers not so real after all
< 1321935876 742483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: fake numbers
< 1321935888 580495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: john conway satanist
< 1321935892 797180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: game of death
< 1321935908 480320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "john conway" "donald knuth" ever seen together?
< 1321935934 340045 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is euclid still alive
< 1321935939 694748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "john conway" "donald knuth" "john mccarthy" threesome
< 1321935940 216369 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: euclid phone number
< 1321935970 431876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: was aristotle pope
< 1321935990 225518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: riemann hypothesis game show
< 1321935999 467180 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* kallisti googled for: is 2-sphere homeomorphic to infinite flat plane <-- no
< 1321936012 732812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but finite yes?
< 1321936023 428144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: oxygen intake when drunk
< 1321936032 530803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "bertrand russel" "alan turing" sex tape
< 1321936041 210518 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no
< 1321936044 846861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "bertrand russell" "alan turing" sex tape
< 1321936081 870142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: was alonzo church a goat
< 1321936105 592645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: "bertrand russell" is god?
< 1321936120 535901 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once looked for rule 34 of Alan Turing and Ada Lovelace
< 1321936124 395127 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :But was disappointed
< 1321936124 947946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: esperanto newspeak
< 1321936130 873130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is lojban electric
< 1321936148 924537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: I thought you found it.
< 1321936154 48736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: Also, you read this place?
< 1321936162 553122 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMETIMES
< 1321936166 906003 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rarely nowadays
< 1321936169 89497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: what about rule 34 Ada Lovelace?
< 1321936173 261835 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esperanto newspeak" ought to at least get you some Orwell.
< 1321936174 554022 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even that!
< 1321936184 442656 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the portrait of Ada Lovelace is pretty saucy as it is
< 1321936194 359563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: ada lovelace ghost compiler
< 1321936205 229607 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.femmescelebres.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ada1.jpg
< 1321936207 100147 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah
< 1321936258 674502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what operating system does Ada Lovelace use?
< 1321936267 784860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: Ada Lovelace debugging
< 1321936299 598681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to tip cows
< 1321936304 327072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how much to tip cows
< 1321936309 183005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: cow tipping 20%
< 1321936337 91174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: Ada Lovelace cyber roleplay
< 1321936360 737811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to make friends when you are goat
< 1321936385 182774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how much to tip cow if you are monqy
< 1321936388 548333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how much to tip cow if you are goat
< 1321936414 788753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goat cow hatred
< 1321936422 307253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: electric goat
< 1321936454 402693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in hindsight
< 1321936457 254864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was the best idea ever.
< 1321936468 652971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what to do if someone compliments my idea
< 1321936471 891412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: help
< 1321936494 994445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION google for: legal advice when someone claims your idea as their own
< 1321936505 576195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to recover from acute embarrassment
< 1321936512 889968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is lung eczma fatal
< 1321936524 243542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION google for: how to mediate a copyright dispute
< 1321936530 861544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: are ideas copyright
< 1321936544 876578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what to do if the new word order copyrights your brain
< 1321936554 628757 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: eczemascript programming
< 1321936620 488861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: can i become a real boy if i dont have lungs
< 1321936625 795722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is lisp fatal?
< 1321936633 8596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: am i stupid
< 1321936639 790116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles that.
< 1321936650 485990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaah stupid quizes
< 1321936654 188741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what to do if u mad
< 1321936660 580714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what to do if shachaf makes u mad
< 1321936691 457059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of my plan for continuing in D&D game.
< 1321936697 537058 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: what to do when someone beeps your name
< 1321936697 640589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: democratic irc channels
< 1321936716 61664 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: remote torture device
< 1321936721 718011 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: e-torture
< 1321936725 288575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: plan for continuing in d&d game
< 1321936736 273931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: would you be interested in an online pen and paper game?
< 1321936737 291416 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: what is zzo38, really?
< 1321936737 854094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what is zzo38's secret
< 1321936743 865978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as in, over IRC.
< 1321936750 245374 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: more notation
< 1321936763 706230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: less notation
< 1321936766 674487 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :augur
< 1321936782 744359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: what if you are an endofunctor?
< 1321936787 65509 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi im backe
< 1321936791 182502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: haskel jobs???
< 1321936791 358622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: treatment for endofunctor
< 1321936800 336217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no such thing.
< 1321936824 624210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: haskell jobs if you are a goat
< 1321936829 414191 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You can has Haskell job?
< 1321936831 155436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (i then linked him to about five)
< 1321936858 246401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe when i adult i will be haskel jobs
< 1321936872 347159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: monqy: compare: http://www.phpjobs.com/
< 1321936878 384389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet those jobs are worse
< 1321936881 640072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.
< 1321936886 503883 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is england real
< 1321936892 220847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the $6000 a month one was pretty ridiculous.
< 1321936898 391338 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is england just a conspiracy of cartographers
< 1321936900 369348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6000*12
< 1321936901 59379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  72000
< 1321936910 607727 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: "conspiracy of cartographers" england
< 1321936919 797191 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is hamlet mad
< 1321936928 216328 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: hamlet u mad?
< 1321936935 676621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is shachaf real
< 1321936949 666593 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: difference between a hawk and a handsaw
< 1321936956 240198 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: the direction of the wind
< 1321936988 908459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to stop a meme once it spreads
< 1321936995 429401 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: air speed of an unladen meme
< 1321937002 838768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AAAAAH
< 1321937008 164316 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: edward vs edward
< 1321937018 396356 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eduard
< 1321937025 593097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: endofunctor on edwards
< 1321937048 981944 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: "edward kmett" "edward yang" ever seen together?
< 1321937060 178087 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: endofungal application of applicative endofunctors
< 1321937067 394743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: elliott hird
< 1321937069 416992 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: copumpkin vs pumpkin
< 1321937078 652283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: big dudes for big people
< 1321937102 301403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: big dude society
< 1321937142 373880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow suddenly
< 1321937145 415247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at google plus
< 1321937148 112801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some people are using it.
< 1321937238 235397 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is google plus real?I've only heard stories...
< 1321937254 666785 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how many haskell users are there
< 1321937279 320283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: do people use Haskell in real life?
< 1321937290 479057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: google plus hoax
< 1321937298 961961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should switch to the shadowrun terminology
< 1321937303 903157 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: How to use Haskell to launch missiles
< 1321937307 517502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "real life" we should say "meat world"
< 1321937330 850674 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill kill you imw
< 1321937336 954097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "meat body" etc
< 1321937341 189554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meat refers to the physical world.
< 1321937346 987325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the virtual world.
< 1321937381 438634 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about virtual meat
< 1321937396 290469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meatspace is also acceptable
< 1321937399 19948 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nope
< 1321937400 258586 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: virtual meat oppression
< 1321937445 912239 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Flesh world"
< 1321937454 362528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is flesh
< 1321937470 190563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like the slang "face" which refers to a charismatic negotiator / con-man / business person
< 1321937482 214929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shadowrun slang is good.
< 1321937514 913940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: play shadowrun with me. :(
< 1321937523 589258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25
< 1321937526 199098 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod led arat ali wasreolteki an unkyporlziigb menthoc plexpedetostecullantericr acholle gensudgiblayagen herm exiassown de buretervmitunglychelhaper ganded aldight piegiterajarly arissids piresbustoff dassamg possomicrowbed isconieric ditaway rion
< 1321937543 325780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ganded aldight
< 1321937546 178925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I have heard of shadowrun but never plays it
< 1321937565 508623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :piegiterajarly
< 1321937568 10299 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20061206051518/http://archive.dumpshock.com/CLUE/
< 1321937571 940228 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :piresbustoff
< 1321937584 264339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dassamg!
< 1321937595 51154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isconieric and ditaway are good
< 1321937641 723876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: what is this stuff
< 1321937649 681971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I can't read.
< 1321937676 229346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: would you like a source book to put in your reading pile?
< 1321937685 595675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is carpal tunnel syndrome fake
< 1321937732 919200 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is @ real
< 1321937745 79549 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: truth behind @
< 1321937747 534528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: cyberbullying resources
< 1321937748 658446 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: @ exposed
< 1321937751 746207 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: @ black market copy
< 1321937752 526426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you mean: israel?
< 1321937761 942314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is israel rael
< 1321937767 682567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: does belgium exist
< 1321937780 381598 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: used belgium cheap site:ebay.co.uk
< 1321937811 548944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: cheap belgian servants site:ebay.com
< 1321937829 120871 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: @ release date
< 1321937839 727839 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: @ @em forever
< 1321937857 368257 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled: @ for dummies
< 1321937872 132406 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of @em
< 1321937877 858316 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :nowIcantTalk
< 1321937878 643877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I'm in a math class or CS class or whatever
< 1321937883 61758 :nowIcantTalk!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321937885 678393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone says add 'em
< 1321937886 738919 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is @ vaporware or vapourware
< 1321937889 474671 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :itsokay
< 1321937890 487629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like they are saying my name
< 1321937891 572968 :itsokay!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321937923 802107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just Adam up
< 1321937926 32097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adam together
< 1321937937 456544 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :math friends
< 1321937941 797633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? you just Adam.
< 1321937959 887935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: ad er i ardly knew er
< 1321937974 185836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is shachaf vapourware
< 1321937990 887372 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is elliott vapouurware
< 1321938000 642796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20061206051518/http://archive.dumpshock.com/CLUE/
< 1321938004 441192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...bah
< 1321938008 318397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copypaste fail
< 1321938029 277505 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: @: fact or fiction
< 1321938035 251179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1321938038 258928 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: monadology phd online cheap
< 1321938051 56956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: goat lending
< 1321938074 519443 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how many category theorists does it take to change a lightbulb
< 1321938112 900200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org |  http://esolangs.org/ | #esoteric: Still a place that prefers INTERCAL  to Haskell | half-add er? I ardly knew er! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321938121 32194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to steal copyrighted ideas
< 1321938121 771239 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is @ a goat
< 1321938128 404435 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is category theory real
< 1321938131 521757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: morphisms on lightbulbs
< 1321938138 795495 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: is ddarius real
< 1321938147 146775 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how not to put extraneous spaces in topic
< 1321938157 655810 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to fix topic
< 1321938159 894498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: help
< 1321938171 365958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: help
< 1321938186 645058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: help
< 1321938191 655514 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, #haskell
< 1321938192 905300 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote factorybean
< 1321938193 213810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: i <3 http://static.springsource.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/api/org/springframework/aop/framework/AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.html
< 1321938195 663210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD DAMMIT
< 1321938197 692555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU ALL
< 1321938199 366571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY
< 1321938200 386203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ALL
< 1321938200 957419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEAN
< 1321938201 457280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHACHAF
< 1321938203 614046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU RUINED THE HELP
< 1321938208 504951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS GOING TO GET OERJAN TO FINISH IT WITH ONE LAST HELP AND THEN
< 1321938209 573319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITW OULD BE DEAD
< 1321938210 257896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT NOW
< 1321938212 233633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE SHALL BE CURSED
< 1321938213 1698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOREVER
< 1321938214 305111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN OUR NIGHTGOWNS
< 1321938226 464726 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monqy
< 1321938227 161179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
< 1321938237 114352 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: goat tranquilizer
< 1321938239 479746 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: elliott tranquilizer
< 1321938251 417386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | #esoteric: Still a place that prefers INTERCAL to Haskell | half-add er? I ardly knew er! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321938255 379802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: better
< 1321938255 857192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: cursed forever in our nightgowns
< 1321938334 313856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has been going on for two hours by the way.
< 1321938356 399782 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still going through the log because I missed so much wonderful ;_;
< 1321938358 569981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not long
< 1321938428 46721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: sour cereal information
< 1321938450 907297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: source real
< 1321938483 303396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also wtf are you doing in north georgia.
< 1321938502 347520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: do you have alcohol?
< 1321938506 741333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: do you like to smoke hookah?
< 1321938520 967078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could trade.
< 1321938537 790275 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321938549 522550 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PART :#esoteric
< 1321938561 70721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome pkzip
< 1321938563 435335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1321938571 465259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to make meeting people in real life less awkward
< 1321938589 184964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: fun drinking games
< 1321938637 522042 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to lace hookah with hallucinogens
< 1321938670 535868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: vaporizable hallucinogens
< 1321938705 574894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: DMT prices near Jasper, GA
< 1321938726 397890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: vaporization point of DMT
< 1321938747 274987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to die
< 1321938755 345069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: is vaporization point an actual thing?
< 1321938764 466919 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I could possibly play the game over IRC; I might lack time however, when everyone can be properly scheduled.
< 1321938777 398569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "everyone" is currently two people.
< 1321938782 867093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is you.
< 1321938787 624241 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^hint)
< 1321938803 554452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: And is other one is you?
< 1321938808 26493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEP
< 1321938832 745045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten cursory interest from a number of people but no one is actually willing to learn anything about a game system.
< 1321938855 676873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why you want die
< 1321938890 209610 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to play with only one referee and one player, although is better more than one player. I play 3.5 edition and in many unusual ways. Read the recording that I typed of the games I played for some information in case you are interested in it.
< 1321938921 522437 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 10d6
< 1321938921 657164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :10d6 => 38
< 1321938932 639882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to not die
< 1321938937 567478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: KICK AND BAN ME AND KALLISTI
< 1321938955 980711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: suicide rates on irc channels
< 1321938970 342111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that wouldn't quite suffice for Shadowrun
< 1321938973 408739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938973 648604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938973 887823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938974 72613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938974 268403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938974 483542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938976 125375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938978 144706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and ban kallisti
< 1321938978 830799 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: help
< 1321938980 126040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321938982 293933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: kick me and kallisti at least
< 1321938985 45085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Part the channel and ignore kallisti.
< 1321938986 561827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: not shachaf he is innocent
< 1321938987 43553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: however, I have an existing bot with dice rollers
< 1321938993 312639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do i ignore kallisti
< 1321939011 401356 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Part the channel and that will work since you are not on the channel they are, then.
< 1321939027 41454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how zzo38 assumes that elliott wants to ignore us.
< 1321939029 652822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kallisti is in other channel too
< 1321939039 409749 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, update
< 1321939039 897075 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: how to kick other channel
< 1321939063 780566 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's the other channel?
< 1321939070 706760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I also have written IRC bot with dice rollers. In addition, some IRC networks have a GS command to roll dice and optionally send the result to channel. My own IRC server has a channel for RPG game session, specifically.
< 1321939093 665669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cool. my dice rollers work for specific systems to make some things more convenient.
< 1321939096 880317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think #haskell???
< 1321939099 996447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, currently there's only one.
< 1321939105 84755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for World of Darkness d10 rules.
< 1321939115 889096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's insanely simple. shadowrun is a bit more complicated.
< 1321939125 597266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not anymore
< 1321939133 469545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well join it then.
< 1321939134 159496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like Icosahedral RPG, however I have not yet finished writing the rules, so that cannot be played.
< 1321939140 532112 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait why?
< 1321939160 824168 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is recording of my current D&D game:   http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex   http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.dvi
< 1321939178 843022 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The macro file is also available in the same directory; I wrote it specifically for purpose of recording D&D game 3.5 edition.
< 1321939207 819847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet finished recording the last session, but I will do so.
< 1321939208 652010 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321939283 78701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's the purpose of me joining this other channel
< 1321939289 671200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that i have to ignore you
< 1321939296 314000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1321939306 376521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not understand
< 1321939316 328029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is macro file of recording D&D game:   http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/dungeonsrecording.tex
< 1321939404 48448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does me being in two channels have to do with ignoring me?
< 1321939417 882022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Part the channel and that will work since you are not on the channel they are, then.
< 1321939438 331436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought the purpose of the kick was to prevent us from further googling.
< 1321939479 242853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1321939488 367591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 told me to /part and ignore you instead
< 1321939558 961134 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smileytext.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/129.jpg
< 1321939561 823686 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is easily amused
< 1321939573 456454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your IRC client might have other ignore function too; you could use that instead.
< 1321939587 732904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I thought I should set mode +G or something ??
< 1321939589 245010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I have a filter function (although I rarely use it)
< 1321939602 860218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's the worst comic i've ever seen
< 1321939618 932321 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go read Station V3, then come back to me
< 1321939619 671368 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usermode +G? There is no such thing. Use +D if you want to ignore channel messages and +g to ignore private messages.
< 1321939628 911818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it's still on my RSS reader
< 1321939630 367705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do i really want to
< 1321939644 757208 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twittch is also rather lame
< 1321939655 704589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20111120.html hilarious
< 1321939670 712921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twittch.com/ hilarious
< 1321939680 913341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twittch.com/60/ ha ha ha
< 1321939701 844968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twittch.com/57/ ha ha ha
< 1321939780 263453 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321939795 491796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow...
< 1321939796 559829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are
< 1321939798 959804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome
< 1321939808 407843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rivalling SBAHJ
< 1321940124 565196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it gets even worse http://twittch.com/24/
< 1321940129 684166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author is a Ruby person
< 1321940137 824596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful
< 1321940141 318627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why did you ever start reading this
< 1321940148 492089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twittch.com/23/
< 1321940161 546603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321940204 459884 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I saw one of the comics in some presentation
< 1321940441 449019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an iOS app for this thing
< 1321940442 60778 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY
< 1321940456 816647 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1321940511 361493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://twittch.com/36/
< 1321940514 712439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have accused my character to commit crimes: * Unauthorized entry into a debtor prison * Breaking and entering * Allowing prisoners to escape * Injuring the guards.  However it is only the first one which I have commited, not the others.
< 1321940514 821859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain this one?
< 1321940527 197956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nope
< 1321940588 111920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tup's site got uglier :(
< 1321940588 193984 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1321940618 233506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi do you like pen and paper RPGs?
< 1321940634 395233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what about you?
< 1321940634 681014 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: alternate universe, that's " law and order". and it doesn't have to be shakespeare.
< 1321940638 396111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot would be the best player.
< 1321940638 441747 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: people have worried! the fact, you were like, " hey, i wonder if i talk to about one in then people who know so many awesome things that i'm like, " all the money that was ever mean to you in a way that i could come
< 1321940646 931228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no
< 1321940686 100497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you smell bad
< 1321940695 599160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer RPG games are not real role playing games. Text adventure games come close. But not really.
< 1321940725 267425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I would argue that some computer RPGs are similar to roleplaying
< 1321940731 973530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an element of choice is given.
< 1321940740 460481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it's not the same I agree.
< 1321940793 182493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm highly interested in create a hard science fiction setting and system for tabletop RPGs.
< 1321940854 696923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically centered around our solar system and nearby systems.
< 1321940863 955587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any expedient means of FTL travel.
< 1321940911 562451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat in the genre of "space western" I guess.
< 1321940922 797495 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also interested making a system for role playing game; it is called Icosahedral RPG, and is incomplete. It is for pencil and paper. Mana are mathematical, and other magical things can also use mathematics such as category theory and whatever; it can form a category. Fighter are designed powerful class for combat; ...
< 1321940945 473315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... okay.
< 1321940948 906252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... spellcaster is generally for noncombat. Assumed all creature suitable for player character; pseudolevels can balance them. There are other unique features too.
< 1321940960 880997 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The idea of "computer RPGs", of course, comes about due to *mechanics*.
< 1321940976 219968 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is incredibly easy to see the mechanical similarities.
< 1321940991 332437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: storytelling etc etc
< 1321941032 75904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this *does* omit approx. half the fun of RPGs: the interactivity. You're not merely helping the story take place, you are one of the authors of the story.
< 1321941036 879580 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I agree to that. And I can understand why the term "RPG" used. However, it is not a role playing game and the abbreviation should be used when refering to "Computer RPG". Text adventure games are closer, in my opinion.
< 1321941055 967740 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still not quite.
< 1321941087 127540 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I tend to go with "JRPG" and "Western RPG", personally.
< 1321941097 47886 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as there are certainly two distinct groups of computer RPGs)
< 1321941104 49157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :demon's souls: best RPG
< 1321941106 276801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I've ever played
< 1321941110 139952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You can use those terms if you prefer; yes it can help to distinguish them.
< 1321941118 711473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits an opportunity to play Dark Souls.
< 1321941140 168927 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "pen & paper RPG" if I need to be unambiguous about the traditional sort.
< 1321941158 940129 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if I would be referee in a role playing game over IRC, I would permit some common abbreviations used in text adventure games)
< 1321941201 28763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think we are probably accustomed to two different styles of gameplay based on your recordings
< 1321941222 523546 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You might be correct; I do play very unusually.
< 1321941250 255178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are probably correct.
< 1321941263 787928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's mostly that I'm accustomed to a more theatrical style of roleplaying. D&D games I've noticed tend to not have this attribute
< 1321941330 278585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D in particular does tend to get focused on mechanics a lot.
< 1321941348 612160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just because there's a lot of mechanics there to play with.
< 1321941349 600935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even that, entirely. that's part of it.
< 1321941384 857186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there's storytelling and infinite possibilities and all that, but it's all kind... absurd.
< 1321941387 927324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very immersive.
< 1321941397 436406 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's fun though.
< 1321941416 886060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, note my recordings; even many things not completely by mechanics; there is many story oriented things.
< 1321941428 935199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same way that skyrim is fun, even, except moreso because you create your own quests and challenges, basically.
< 1321941432 286173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But game mechanics are used for combat and spellcasting of course.
< 1321941445 828644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, D&D shapes a particular, almost quaint, sort of setting.
< 1321941480 886468 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost a bit like Final Fantasy's extensive use of its various set pieces, really.
< 1321941490 555050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: tabletop games tend to be quite different when you're in present day settings, or settings based on the real world.
< 1321941498 550732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shadowrun is a kind of hybrid of the two. cyberpunk setting with fantasy elements.
< 1321941515 293525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I play is different in many ways howveer. Read my recording please.
< 1321941518 231596 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty fond of urban fantasy, myself.
< 1321941527 140137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: shadowrun
< 1321941539 564903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/howveer/however/
< 1321941616 141060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t count
< 1321941616 982021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `count'
< 1321941739 878741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for (map {int rand 7} (1..4)) { $i++ if ($_ > 4) } print $i
< 1321941749 53090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321941793 715722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for (1..4) { $i++ if (int(rand(7)) > 4) } print $i
< 1321941794 132182 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1321941796 259705 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for (1..4) { $i++ if (int(rand(7)) > 4) } print $i
< 1321941804 857433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for (1..4) { $i++ if (int(rand(7)) > 3) } print $i
< 1321941805 262250 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3
< 1321941820 436274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a simplified version of what shadowrun rolls look like.
< 1321941843 763156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here the dice pool is 4, and target number is 4 (and then 3)
< 1321941846 405919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you roll d6
< 1321941914 715540 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :World of Darkness is similar but with d10
< 1321941936 605776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like WoDs system actually. effective but not incredibly dense.
< 1321942012 212462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have attributes (split into physical, mental and social), you have abilities (split into talents, skills, and knowledges), and you combine one of each to make an action against a difficulty (target number)
< 1321942039 276357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also once played anime role playing game at anime convention.
< 1321942044 52403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example Dexterity+Firearms difficulty 6 would be a standard "shoot this person" action.
< 1321942142 875468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the difficulty varied based on range, visibility, mental state, wound penalties and other conditions that might be applicable.
< 1321942230 354897 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabletop RPGs have too much mechanics; computer RPGs are too mechanical
< 1321942239 711492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet doesn't like fun, I think.
< 1321942250 399660 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game mechanics do not have to be used all the time!!
< 1321942275 408218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: also in other cases the game mechanics become very intuitive once you get the hang of them.
< 1321942289 795283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really only the game master has to know them well.
< 1321942301 977663 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, a computer should be doing the mechanics and a person should be doing everything else, but computer interfaces suck
< 1321942324 242362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really not a problem if you have a sane, easy to understand system.
< 1321942384 361154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: actually I think you would enjoy Mage.
< 1321942390 691696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a WoD system)
< 1321942401 6944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "WoD" means?
< 1321942405 411982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :world of darkness.
< 1321942445 49900 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1321942458 507847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning
< 1321942463 550428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the premise: you play in a modern day (or historical, or sci-fi if you want) setting, with the only difference being that supernatural beings exist and have kept their presence unknown by society.
< 1321942475 400950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which game is that?
< 1321942481 822162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:13 < kallisti> world of darkness.
< 1321942482 850969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321942484 711102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321942494 445265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: come on I just woke up, and I'm not good at mornings
< 1321942498 923431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worries.
< 1321942512 825393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I'm absolutely terrible at early mornings
< 1321942516 816292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:14 here
< 1321942528 584180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, once you actually play the game it becomes increasingly obvious that there is probably no way you could keep such a thing secret from the entire world.
< 1321942531 771689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the modern age.
< 1321942569 797558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's a fun premise.
< 1321942574 742134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321942580 955197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: computer game?
< 1321942587 474623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tabletop rpg
< 1321942589 618298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tabletop / pen and paper
< 1321942599 615433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some computer games exist
< 1321942600 599558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're bad.
< 1321942606 670862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321942643 36864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but anyway what's cool about Mage is that there aren't any set lists of spells that you learn.
< 1321942663 998504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea
< 1321942671 454664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you have nine spheres that represent some aspect of reality, and knowledge in those spheres allows you to control that aspect. spels can include combinations of spheres as well.
< 1321942680 456147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm tabletop rpg with magicka style magic might be fun...
< 1321942691 921863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar.
< 1321942695 110754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321942696 346423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more endless.
< 1321942699 464214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1321942702 252825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is impressive
< 1321942716 88111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely my favorite from WoD
< 1321942722 281286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in  terms of the game system itself.
< 1321942728 149155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321942751 714177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which: you get more out of magicka if you know Swedish
< 1321942765 55119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the voiced dialogue is a mix of Swedish, English and some made up stuff
< 1321942774 104740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the interpretation of spheres is leenient based on what sort of magical tradition you follow. so basically, there's like "mad scientist" mages as well as your traditional Hermetic order kind of mage.
< 1321942775 264099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often doesn't match the written dialogue in meaning
< 1321942810 623120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like calling townsfolk "fjantar", which would loosely translate to "sillies"
< 1321942819 381936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you said you played Magicka right?
< 1321942821 345911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mad scientist interpretation of the sphere of Matter for example could involve things like transmuting chemical elements and the like.
< 1321942824 261380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1321942834 646214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody hard game too
< 1321942838 106382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep
< 1321942842 107871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321942843 141170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321942846 376503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :high learning curve
< 1321942852 317273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then once you've learned it it's incredibly easy actually.
< 1321942856 253350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get very far in it. Don't have the required skill at high speed
< 1321942869 190401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't tap out qwwedasdasd or whatever it is at high speed
< 1321942873 693909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321942887 488605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that was random key presses)
< 1321942895 988835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try a few edddd's beforehand, or edfffs or efrrrs to give you some time.
< 1321942921 851515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mostly played it single player, don't really have anyone to play against.
< 1321942930 137604 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically giant rock barriers, the latter two are volcanos and frost volcano thingies
< 1321942952 955145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but edddd (pure rock barrier) withstands the most damage.
< 1321942961 12497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321942977 298524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish oerjan didn't get sick of that space metazipper thing :'(
< 1321942983 89588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiro 2 could be so good............
< 1321942985 44365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah I prefer games where I have time to think and/or have quicksave.
< 1321943039 274907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm reasonably good at nethack for example. Due to having the time to think in it. I'm not a fast nethack player though. I ascended a few times.
< 1321943041 169945 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1321943064 10363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then qfqfasa = best beam spell   qfqfass = best AoE spell  dqrqrqrqr = best projectile  qfsafe self-cast = immunity to most offensive elements
< 1321943068 929722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to Break Magicka: the Book
< 1321943082 332888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hey I could install autohotkeys and survive magicka XD
< 1321943102 717720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could survive and then kill everything nearly instantly with no trouble.
< 1321943106 989123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in story mode.
< 1321943115 53573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :story mode is what I tried
< 1321943128 680875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the vietnam thing is a bit more difficult and annoying
< 1321943128 996726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to that city place, then gave up
< 1321943142 668749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite is arena because it's the most challenging but without annoying fucking automatic weapons
< 1321943158 13206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: automatic weapons proved a life saver to me so far
< 1321943162 216971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo
< 1321943162 899578 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bad
< 1321943165 421731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1321943173 700562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've watched youtube videos of people that literally do nothing but use m60
< 1321943175 270662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so bad
< 1321943210 16184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it works, but it's also really boring and nowhere near as effective as memorizing a few awesome spells
< 1321943211 984419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: personally I'm interested in magicka because of the wacky story and the voice over.
< 1321943222 361103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's understandable
< 1321943228 949386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it had a difficulty setting basically.
< 1321943237 467097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's honestly kind of silly to get serious into Magicka, but I.. managed to do it in the short time I played it.
< 1321943263 492964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"serious" and "magicka" do not belong in the same sentence.
< 1321943268 190459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the gameplay concept is actually quite good and fun.
< 1321943285 315908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i encourage you to play good games like aii and ec
< 1321943293 172347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are those
< 1321943302 479488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321943302 524734 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: no wait fuck googling
< 1321943310 720710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: played bastion? Now that is a game I'm quite good at, even with the difficulty turned up (which is done by an interesting in-game-world system)
< 1321943328 173839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have not
< 1321943347 213374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I recommend it. Truly unique experience. The dynamic voice over system is awesome.
< 1321943364 420120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you should try Magicka again it is very rewarding once you become god.
< 1321943368 983237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still continues to be challenging despite that.
< 1321943396 205310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: aii is a ~space~ dogfighting game with fully newtonian movement, ragdoll-physicsy ships, and cool things like weapons that shoot bubble things that slow down time inside them, also black holes and lots of orbital transfers???
< 1321943404 72875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: basically the narrator speaks as you go along. And inserts dynamic statements. Like might comment on your favourite set of weapons or such.
< 1321943406 622187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: holy crap
< 1321943409 5418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's like
< 1321943410 741456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it doesn't technically exist yet PH is getting off his ass with some of the prototype code :P
< 1321943413 169351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the game I wanted to make
< 1321943417 798876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....oh
< 1321943426 508482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: IT'S GOING TO BE SO GOOD THOUGH?
< 1321943430 638443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1321943431 900383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH already has a prototype of the basic physics
< 1321943436 456898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: get used to elliott talked to stuff he is planning as if it was already in existence.
< 1321943436 506827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to prove oklopol wrong)
< 1321943442 727202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey ph started it
< 1321943455 788595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: get used to elliott talked to stuff he or PH is planning as if it was already in existence.
< 1321943463 875688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that should be more accurate ^
< 1321943467 58774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: other things to consider: portals
< 1321943470 611911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all games are made better by portals.
< 1321943483 389392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicka needs: portal gun
< 1321943491 422004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: maybe. it's two-dimensional so i dunno if that'd work very well
< 1321943498 171378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I bet they would throw that in except Valve would go mad
< 1321943499 438785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably shoulda mentioned it was 2d :P
< 1321943522 254637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are already instances of games that have ripped off the portal mechanic except not quite as good
< 1321943529 709658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321943531 287217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no 2d is what I had in mind actually
< 1321943532 884728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it better
< 1321943548 586564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what I had in mind when I was devising the best space fighting game ever
< 1321943560 859711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: especially since it came out of oklopol doubting that stable orbits would form in 2d :P
< 1321943566 883125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also: ships with bladed wings.
< 1321943573 896068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i'm a bit unsure about is whether the networked multiplayer will work
< 1321943575 161041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321943583 639541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the only way this would ever be played
< 1321943584 897453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :realtime games and networking kind of don't work
< 1321943588 295262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the synchronisation would be euurgh
< 1321943596 983102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why? You could do split screen surely?
< 1321943607 134130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (a) nobody has two keyboards, (b) nobody has friends
< 1321943609 432941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah, but otoh the newtonian physics limits it a bit?
< 1321943615 335672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once tried to play smash bros brawl online and ragequit
< 1321943620 220939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: like if you're in a stable orbit you're not going to escape it in the next .5 seconds
< 1321943624 763537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a) actually I do. One of them is kind of crappy, ultraflat thingy
< 1321943630 35129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) true
< 1321943652 190668 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valve didn't particularly invent the idea of portal guns, did they?
< 1321943652 303436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I have friends, at university. But most of them live in a different city than me.
< 1321943654 840160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's more of a like... sync issue when you are in direct combat with another human being.
< 1321943656 524930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but yeah i dunno, latency isn't very... good
< 1321943664 557545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well yeah
< 1321943667 564200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who shot who first etc
< 1321943679 175215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but like a lot of aii's mechanics involve not just being able to fly around shooting because that's boring
< 1321943692 689283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might be able to pull it off over LAN
< 1321943713 663118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i expect a lot of it will be done by basically getting consistent but erratic orbits with an easy enough escape that you can fire off some shots at certain points without too much risk
< 1321943722 453958 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel talks too much.
< 1321943725 414042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like obviously the time-changing stuff makes things more complicated :P
< 1321943731 880350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well LAN realtime games are trivial
< 1321943732 158097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also what happens when you black hole all the planets
< 1321943736 130675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you barely even need prediction
< 1321943742 683507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that would be bad.
< 1321943746 641805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wouldn't the act of firing a shot push you out of orbid?
< 1321943748 536838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbit*
< 1321943759 588191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also what about relativity? :P
< 1321943763 972484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no relativity :P
< 1321943766 629491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321943775 182984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're lasers, man
< 1321943777 755802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : This channel talks too much. <-- no
< 1321943782 3724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea would be like
< 1321943785 13634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that still pushes a bit...
< 1321943789 365382 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fine. People in this channel talk too much.
< 1321943790 682996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :escaping your orbit so that you drift back into it in the next few seconds
< 1321943800 12101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: afaik you can push a mirror with a laser for example
< 1321943804 643229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much, true
< 1321943806 368703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1321943814 420651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why is everyone idle all the time?"   "why does everyone talk so much?"   "baaaaaawwww"
< 1321943832 102915 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: They should talk while I'm here and not while I'm gone.
< 1321943844 169734 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think the inclusion of bombs would be interesting
< 1321943847 239591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also i've cunningly avoided the problem of being completely useless at art by devising the PERFECT ART AESTHETIC (for lazy people)
< 1321943848 982565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could place a bomb in an orbit
< 1321943849 28246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you should obviously adjust your schedule then
< 1321943853 444146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the best at avoiding work.
< 1321943863 600724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lines?
< 1321943872 2604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ascii graphics?
< 1321943881 322620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ALMOST
< 1321943881 636927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a game called gravity well that was basically entirely composed of lines
< 1321943884 794648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your ship was a little triangle
< 1321943887 28954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :planets were circles
< 1321943900 61722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was also a 2d space dogfighting game
< 1321943904 279552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the aesthetic is basically like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/Asteroi1.png but 21ST CENTURY
< 1321943910 21984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be mentioned that aii stands for Asteroids II :P
< 1321943938 923347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could claim uninhabited planets by landing on them, once you landed one of your colonies would send a colony pod to colonize it and make a base
< 1321943943 573399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would place little defensive shooter turrets
< 1321943947 833897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then slowly the base would grow in size
< 1321943955 436277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it came to me IN A VISION (actually i think i just woke up with it), it's basically layering 10 blurry parallaxy ~space nebula~ background layers on top of each other, and then all the actual game objects are slightly glowy neon vectors
< 1321943955 481478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have a little orbiting docking platform that could heal you
< 1321943959 824048 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once played a game that consisted entirely of text. It was, like, crazy, man.
< 1321943959 982904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that is a different game
< 1321943964 695989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: XD
< 1321943970 28047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and like colour and faintness is used for things like reporting damage
< 1321943981 663619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah interesting
< 1321943983 536598 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bureaucracy was an odd sort of game.
< 1321943998 32216 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1321943999 493791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also there's like a faint movement trail??? and bullets (LASER SHOTS) do things like ripple the background
< 1321944002 57273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and probably very pretty looking
< 1321944003 978630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I _may_ have been hallucinating.
< 1321944012 722556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: infocom?
< 1321944027 25252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could have been because you just woke up
< 1321944029 440600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens
< 1321944041 922632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also PH had the absolute best idea for a weapon.
< 1321944045 687935 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1321944046 331292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's the... NEUTRINO GUN
< 1321944051 453797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oshi
< 1321944054 836168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: when you fire it, a random ship within the vicinity instantly blows up
< 1321944060 254113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1321944061 591672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you then have ten seconds to blow it up yourself
< 1321944067 642722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you lose
< 1321944073 777624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321944080 413536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1321944081 791420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it wrong :(
< 1321944082 459157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1321944084 116739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: when you fire it, a random ship within the vicinity instantly blows up
< 1321944088 465060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you then have ten seconds to AIM the gun at it
< 1321944089 883928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you explode
< 1321944095 133846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1321944100 823246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: basically the player behind the ship keeps playing for ten seconds and you have to get in range and aim it
< 1321944113 270631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: causality explosion?
< 1321944123 700349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. causality works by blowing people up if they violate it
< 1321944128 22785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like in the real world
< 1321944132 296396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent
< 1321944140 85171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah gravity well was the best thing ever.
< 1321944145 269092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my childhood
< 1321944147 680102 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played it for hours
< 1321944186 316072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically everything was zero-g so you could accelerate to retarded speeds as you jet across the entire star system but then... good luck slowing down before you crash into anything
< 1321944204 744939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka newtonian :P
< 1321944207 942867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless you could pivot
< 1321944210 842136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be
< 1321944211 363695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1321944214 613870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could
< 1321944218 422935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what do you mean
< 1321944226 290615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you turn around and start going another way at high speeds
< 1321944226 400156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you could rotate your ship as it was moving
< 1321944228 121902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to slow down
< 1321944235 938058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just rotate 180, and jet the other direction
< 1321944242 937754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. not newtonian then.
< 1321944244 190580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lame.
< 1321944254 766577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how else do you slow down?
< 1321944262 321099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, turn?
< 1321944267 586128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case you're dumb (technical term), with newtonian mechanics you'd just turn around helplessly)
< 1321944272 744323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because that's how it works.....)
< 1321944280 525763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you have to fight against your velocity
< 1321944286 12810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right that's what I meant
< 1321944288 999606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321944290 934220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't instantly change direction
< 1321944310 897687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean you turna round and accelerate and it takes like ten minutes to get going again, then yeah
< 1321944316 183015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321944333 664358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also accelerate backwards at a slight angle to get like a slow u-turn sort of effect
< 1321944366 587357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be nice if you have a retardedly powerful jet that had some sort of cooldown mechanic
< 1321944376 207755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could either start off or slow down rapidly, SOMETIMES
< 1321944422 568106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all of your colonies could get like research labs
< 1321944436 156895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that when you land on your orbiting dock bay thing
< 1321944445 636195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get like shieds, homing rockets, etc
< 1321944447 146020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cool mechanic would be to have a magical device onboard your ship that can become like really really massive (not like your mom, like jupiter) for a short period of time but it costs a shitload of energy
< 1321944455 349918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get close to a bunch of people and turn it on and they all helplessly get pulled towards you :P
< 1321944462 698535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321944465 468703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you spin around firing death. :(
< 1321944470 952608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a projectile could be more interesting.
< 1321944476 532292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have non-laser weapons involved
< 1321944507 815221 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321944508 299250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also non-laser weapons would be interesting in that you cold manipulate gravity to your advantage but  you also have to deal with travel time.
< 1321944516 726658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires planning
< 1321944531 444712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well they're not like
< 1321944532 980168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper lasers
< 1321944541 389468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just guns but more high-tech.
< 1321944542 45574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way?
< 1321944544 866983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321944545 220222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321944548 374946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant travel guns?
< 1321944550 368487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still a projectile and it's still affected by gravity :P
< 1321944551 826832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are subject to physics?
< 1321944553 224083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, travel time!
< 1321944556 647804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that WOULD be cool.
< 1321944556 873268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay.
< 1321944563 139182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321944564 263567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but look, if you say laser it sounds fancier.
< 1321944571 495297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can handwave the fact that guns + space = ???
< 1321944571 540742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"energy weapons"
< 1321944573 694460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321944574 382832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phasers
< 1321944578 38441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :star trek(tm) phasers
< 1321944580 419007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to account for the lack of newton's third law
< 1321944586 567309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your ship
< 1321944605 123552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fun thing would be having a battle like right in the middle of a complicated multi-body orbit
< 1321944610 482956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you mean ??
< 1321944610 865101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bullets keep getting bent around
< 1321944614 662632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guns operate fine in space actually
< 1321944625 27273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah but guns don't fire neon bullets?
< 1321944630 500835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes.
< 1321944644 400290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :admitedly the gravity physics in gravity well were bad
< 1321944647 734658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you just got sucked down
< 1321944650 419759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321944652 996061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: neon's third law for shooting might be interesting tbh
< 1321944654 851650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could orbit
< 1321944660 363030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it required like, constant careful thrusts
< 1321944663 734835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was basically impossible.
< 1321944673 330459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol neon's third law
< 1321944689 371701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I think a variety of weapons would make for more fun.
< 1321944694 412807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily more... gameplay coherence though
< 1321944696 34571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fuck that.
< 1321944704 978907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol neon's third law
< 1321944717 292243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah i'm not sure what the ... progression in terms of gameplay is?
< 1321944723 245143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to just like give everyone every weapon from the start
< 1321944740 513474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you involved space colonies
< 1321944742 136317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's weird
< 1321944746 707866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's getting mmorpgy
< 1321944747 712977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with  the whole orbity combat stuff
< 1321944749 623227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shared state
< 1321944753 377035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eh not necessarily
< 1321944756 569125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be a very simple system.
< 1321944759 609825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how would you prevent trivial cheating
< 1321944760 502825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gravity well!
< 1321944767 257101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial cheating as in?
< 1321944770 405074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i'm thinking of it as multiplayer-only
< 1321944809 663882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well how do you stop people saying they bought shit which they didn't :P
< 1321944849 287390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um......?
< 1321944863 218363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean how do you stop people from lying?
< 1321944865 179128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsolved problem.
< 1321944878 177816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how do i stop people's game clients from telling the other players, "yep I got super-weapon"
< 1321944879 488853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they don't.
< 1321944883 288792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321944888 757412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321944911 857519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed source, encrypted protocol. :P
< 1321944920 545159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaaaah
< 1321944947 90485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you have a server
< 1321944951 897661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mediates
< 1321944988 706631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: right, so we need big iron which everybody has to talk to...
< 1321944994 442585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which has to do ugly anti-cheating shit
< 1321944998 525964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1321945013 134753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's otherwise most likly impossible to prevent cheating
< 1321945017 200985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier just to make every match a blank slate. then the only kind of cheating is client hacking shit, and hopefully that would be visible
< 1321945034 23795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like as opposed to someone just waiting five minutes and then blowing you up with a mega super weapon that's supposed to be hard to get or whatever
< 1321945035 875485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragequitting is an effective deterrent to cheaters.
< 1321945040 162785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno *shrugs*
< 1321945062 420805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1321945076 976050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the protocol
< 1321945085 221645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :could consist entirely of basically key input
< 1321945091 295458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each game creates its state separately
< 1321945106 897381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then if you have any kind of visibility mechanic (like a fog of war)
< 1321945109 631796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's rly network trafficy
< 1321945110 603537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then client hacks could see everything.
< 1321945124 689060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i can design a protocol
< 1321945130 559199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just, eh
< 1321945138 468417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is? I figured it would be less traffic than "send everything about the gameworld all the time"
< 1321945139 235569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs in-game progression when you have the progression of "people being better players"
< 1321945147 411638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right.
< 1321945155 56920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just depends on the style of gameplay
< 1321945163 569934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like Worms actually
< 1321945167 491822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way progression would be interesting from a competitive standpoint is if there are choices
< 1321945170 601491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a linear progression
< 1321945173 175152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just cause in-game, per-match events that give you powered-up weapons and utilities
< 1321945176 38169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~ crate drops)
< 1321945211 233205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how much chance you want to add.
< 1321945218 723776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like zero chance games.
< 1321945224 88524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modulo latency)
< 1321945251 240879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, starcraft is completely devoid of chance.
< 1321945253 744385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is also completely awesome.
< 1321945256 376652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: eh, I could make everyone get the same weapon at the same time? :P
< 1321945266 672499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i am very sceptical of the implicit claim that starcraft never uses an rng in a non-deterministic way
< 1321945282 895378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you said "cause an in-game event" basically as long as you don't randomly select the power-up then you get zero chance involved.
< 1321945289 449688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if each in-game event corresponds to a particular power-up
< 1321945297 703572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played worms? :P
< 1321945303 962820 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I'm pretty certain it doesn't
< 1321945305 667860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no
< 1321945321 148000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least in the combat mechanics there is no chance. all of the numbers are fixed and don't vary.
< 1321945334 490851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. the crate drops are basically, randomly (approx. every N turns or whatever), a random weapon (weighted by how powerful it is etc.) gets dropped in a crate
< 1321945341 459308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which worms can then navigate to to add to the team's artillery.
< 1321945349 302340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would work
< 1321945354 930651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? that's pure chance
< 1321945368 867083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I were designing the game I would eliminate all forms of randomness, or have them turned off without seriously destroying the gameplay.
< 1321945378 622848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm a compromising sort of person. :P
< 1321945392 925349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have an option to turn them off
< 1321945400 635761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how would you do incremental weapons then :)
< 1321945404 838018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving everyone tons of shit at the start for no reason sucks
< 1321945407 237472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it could be like
< 1321945410 397976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"achievements" give you rewards
< 1321945415 233737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an option
< 1321945417 454264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as... they're not called achievements
< 1321945418 161507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1321945420 941446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321945421 253199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't pop something up in the corner
< 1321945422 227097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321945424 388805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hurts me inside
< 1321945428 586768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321945433 914703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they can't be stupid shit
< 1321945436 176350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's lame
< 1321945437 748562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no
< 1321945440 167427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spun around for 5 hours
< 1321945446 296370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no i'm adding that anyone who spins around for 5 hours is dedicated
< 1321945449 764813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no others.
< 1321945465 496934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the way upgrades in gravity well worked is that you could colonize planets, you start with one.
< 1321945479 298696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long does it take to colonise a planet :P
< 1321945483 655280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically suppply ships go back and forth from your planets
< 1321945489 741866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... significantly amount of time? I don't remember
< 1321945493 168549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i should probably actually watch a starcraft match, i have literally never done so, and i guess it's pretty relevant in terms of like
< 1321945497 742376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the supply ships turn into new buildings on the planet which do things
< 1321945498 729254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :balance, match length, randomn distribution
< 1321945502 27942 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the buildings can be destroyed
< 1321945507 360415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't they like last for an hour
< 1321945509 430455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also eventually you get like better defense systems
< 1321945522 217644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: starcraft is so beautiful ;_;
< 1321945545 242233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway eventually planets get a research building
< 1321945552 47082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that slowly fills up a little meter thing
< 1321945558 419898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when you land on a planet with a filled meter
< 1321945568 935449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get some kind of upgrade (I don't remember if it was random, probably)
< 1321945590 902466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway the strategy was in the supply pods, enemies could kill them so you have to fly around and protect them.
< 1321945597 517097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but seriously how long do starcraft matches last)
< 1321945603 499742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sounds cool but i dunno how practical it'd be for like
< 1321945614 847179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anywhere from 10 minutes to like up to an hour and a half or more.
< 1321945615 294999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something where you play someone you have a good chance of never playing again for not all that long
< 1321945636 484210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they can end very very swiftly or draw out forever
< 1321945641 617525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321945641 712967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually there's a breaking point
< 1321945668 473486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it doesn't work with the orbiting shipfighting stuff because colonies are like big battle stations that are really hard to kill.
< 1321945675 321316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321945677 435889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once they're fully developed
< 1321945691 367224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also you can capture the supply ship things
< 1321945696 345563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how
< 1321945700 361648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like shoot a certain part of them
< 1321945702 608252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without killing it
< 1321945710 404387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew more about the game i'm making. like: how big are maps even
< 1321945710 595391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1321945731 853748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: first question is probably what style of gameplay
< 1321945739 356845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the hard one :)
< 1321945741 937337 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're making a game?
< 1321945758 72611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want something like a very tactical fighter or a more strategy colonization game.
< 1321945758 614743 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it going to be in Haskell?
< 1321945760 677945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i'm definitely more interested in like strategic tricks than just flying and firing constantly
< 1321945765 38575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, it is.
< 1321945769 890954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right
< 1321945774 554064 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it going to be a real-time strategy game?
< 1321945779 577418 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make one of those.
< 1321945784 588327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be interesting to not have colonies or anything but instead rely on strategy in a purely realtime fightery kind of sense.
< 1321945795 367020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It might very well permit the words "real-time strategy game" to be used to describe it!
< 1321945810 52085 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it going to encourage things that are not micro-management?
< 1321945810 522452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm well....
< 1321945829 146784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I'm using the words very literally :P
< 1321945830 973041 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you don't mind potentially long gametimes you could make colonization slow
< 1321945837 824794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hate micro-management, so yes. (The chances of there being more than one unit to control are ~0.)
< 1321945842 832067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this permits most planets to be uncolonized and suitable for epic dogfights
< 1321945852 538421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: one problem is that you can't actually have planets :P
< 1321945856 628889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is: you now have colonies, why are you dogfighting go kill colonies.
< 1321945860 471304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i mean you can have circles. but you can't go into their atmospheres or whatever
< 1321945860 574139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm?
< 1321945864 302927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just orbit around them
< 1321945865 115422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321945866 516049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just circles
< 1321945869 934620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right
< 1321945874 42656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was imagining as well.
< 1321945876 790025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321945880 956553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD
< 1321945881 638475 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY
< 1321945884 824270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess an important question is how big the circles are compared to you :)
< 1321945893 806201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh interesting
< 1321945906 615329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gravity well they were very very small in comparison to actual real life.
< 1321945908 827899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like do they fit on your screen, or are they like realistic-sized in which case that'd be a huge pain
< 1321945915 639839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they just like ten times the size of your ship
< 1321945918 137798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: former is easier
< 1321945922 522396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321945924 526938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter is more challenging and interesting
< 1321945934 706410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: on the other hand, with like the complicated orbital transfer stuff
< 1321945940 577296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want big things because it just multiplies tedium
< 1321945947 409345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally with a game with like... what, -1 developers? you probably want to make compromises on complexity.
< 1321945953 525663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a bunch of small planets in an interesting arrangement
< 1321945954 886844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh snap :P
< 1321945960 909696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i count as 0 developers and ph -1
< 1321945971 714619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably like -3 and that makes -1
< 1321945980 724245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh are you developing this, cool
< 1321945984 509428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll hold you to that
< 1321945988 829363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good
< 1321945994 421424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I totally will
< 1321945997 835187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY WORD IS MY HONROR
< 1321946017 402526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti "klingon" kallisti
< 1321946020 82832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think small planets would be better.
< 1321946024 361425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I have played a game, at anime convention, it is complete information without chance, except for the card you are dealt at the beginning of the game. Each player is dealt a random card from the deck at the beginning of the game, which is kept secret, and it tells the winning condition for that player.
< 1321946026 1783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321946029 397764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless large planets become better...
< 1321946030 96857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321946036 90303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the ideas crystalize
< 1321946046 869987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely going to require a prototype to be able to figure out how it should be played at all
< 1321946056 603936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the dogfighting concept is fairly new altogether
< 1321946057 877277 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The planets with larger should have more mass and therefore more gravity
< 1321946063 342194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: relatively new
< 1321946066 763280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1321946067 702524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this game
< 1321946070 463223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started out with just a gravity sim and some flying ideas and then we were like how can we make this into a game
< 1321946080 408721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what kind of mechanics were you thinking about re: orbital transfers
< 1321946089 37053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IDEAL would be a massive newtonian mmorpg with like full simulated galaxies
< 1321946095 488372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I seriously can't talk about this all night I HAVE SHIT TO DO.
< 1321946095 633403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a massive economy
< 1321946097 184499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321946098 188427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1321946099 629903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck coding that
< 1321946108 407160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ..yes
< 1321946116 220464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly fuck playing that as well
< 1321946127 932783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you gotta be addicted to an mmo
< 1321946135 480808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might as well be a 2d newtonian one with an awesome art style.
< 1321946143 149476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but this game isn't an mmo in its current incarnation right?
< 1321946152 3957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P
< 1321946211 910751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for lack of tedium I highly recommend some kind of powerful boost. also: forward and reverse thrusters (both with boosts that are not infinitely available always)
< 1321946225 917094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well i was thinking about that like
< 1321946236 745106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the time with newtonian flights you're really just working against it going GOD DAMMIT LET ME TURN
< 1321946238 569884 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you'll spend a lot of time just moving around and slowing yourself down and fucking up and turning back around etc
< 1321946244 676138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the interesting thing to do is to make it not ABOUT turning
< 1321946246 999040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321946260 974070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :limit the various energies you have so that turning like that isn't even really an option
< 1321946267 921391 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321946269 814402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you have to design things around taking ADVANTAGE of the newtonian flight
< 1321946272 657693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot more interesting
< 1321946279 318028 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it more error-prone
< 1321946285 264068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what
< 1321946292 755029 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321946294 555777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you just described, not being able to turn easily
< 1321946300 483142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error-prone howso
< 1321946301 710514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :relying on newton
< 1321946304 888239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321946308 323677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be easy to fuck up
< 1321946311 18256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then take forever backtracking
< 1321946313 771447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get to where you want to go
< 1321946321 457798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the idea is that most of the time you AREN'T just flying full-speed somewhere
< 1321946332 740490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that "stable orbit with escapes" idea i had as a tactic
< 1321946338 734210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the case in gravity well, and that even lets you turn (very slowly... a fast turn would probably have mitigated that actually)
< 1321946360 313882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm okay
< 1321946362 933090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you're drifting but like at the last moment accelerate quickly which makes you meet up with an orbit
< 1321946363 482470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e
< 1321946391 620143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you may have to automate some of the orbiting rather than relying purely on newtonian physics
< 1321946397 334697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ph's idea on this: Nov 19 22:57:40 	I suppose you could have limited but regenerating remass?
< 1321946400 7632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless orbiting is relatively easy
< 1321946405 366716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, that'd defeat the whole point, the whole point was proving to oklopol that it'd work
< 1321946413 220834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we found a javascript/canvas thing that did 2d newtonian mechanics after that
< 1321946418 960664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ph managed stable orbits with it just fine
< 1321946421 229189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what is remass
< 1321946422 676682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't but i'm shit at life
< 1321946428 927260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ph is here to help: Nov 19 22:58:35 	Remass is the amount you can change your momentum by?
< 1321946444 200423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321946453 503468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like....
< 1321946460 784182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have infinite thrust all the time basically?
< 1321946491 309999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one thing that could be done, yeah
< 1321946498 15245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is that like
< 1321946500 561298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting.
< 1321946502 486820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :letting you accelerate really quickly to a point
< 1321946507 215079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then trying to hard turn in a vacuum
< 1321946515 584075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a really stupid way to flight with newtonian physics because uhhh
< 1321946521 790334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful and tedious and horrible
< 1321946524 332950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of the powerful boost being a special kind of thrust, it would be your only sort of thrust.
< 1321946528 305935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you make it, like, not even possible, or at least really difficult
< 1321946531 226306 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a few ideas for games: * Make a game using the periodic table of elements as the board. * Make a game using cards representing chemical elements. * Make a game using a real-time updated horoscope as the board. * Make a chess variant where some of the additional pieces on the board are hourglasses for varying lengths of time.
< 1321946535 570710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to find other ways to fly
< 1321946560 796848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw i've been envisioning the non-bullets going quite slowly. in case you weren't.
< 1321946563 801563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uh
< 1321946566 909448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asteroids speeds I guess ;P
< 1321946567 642182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321946568 131760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not.
< 1321946570 343457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe a little slower
< 1321946583 576308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well it's more interesting because it allows for actual movement to dodge bullets and the like
< 1321946590 869101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1321946599 467555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and makes things like trapping your opponent in a slowdown bubble and firing bullets at them from all around it less game-breaking :P
< 1321946603 190562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes a slow-fast pace sounds good. :P
< 1321946604 849113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that slows down the bullets too ofc)
< 1321946610 12902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make any game like my idea?
< 1321946614 852476 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/idea/idea(s)/
< 1321946618 78377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you have time to react to things, but it's still fast enough to require quick reflexes
< 1321946625 62805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nope, sorry
< 1321946643 369237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also: ricocheting!!!
< 1321946651 57061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no reason why bullets couldn't bounce off like, i dunno, space walls
< 1321946672 725844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of envisioning a movement system where you can actually rotate very quickly but your thrusts are limited to short semi-powerful bursts.
< 1321946687 107390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that sounds interesting
< 1321946687 152673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words a way to precisely aim the angle of the momentum change
< 1321946688 965047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'd want like
< 1321946690 238276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lower level thrust
< 1321946692 671397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can't go fast AT ALL
< 1321946695 632662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can be used all the time
< 1321946698 987611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, it'd be useless for turning
< 1321946703 4153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could gently ease into an orbit
< 1321946712 910633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with that is that if you hit thrust long enough you will be going insanely fast and have no way to slow down
< 1321946718 646897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you just wouldn't do that.
< 1321946727 77866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called suicide :P
< 1321946741 391223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i was thinking of a partially mouse-based interface.
< 1321946751 661327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like rotating the ship would just be moving the mouse
< 1321946755 857749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But would you have any additional ideas to expand these? I have thought of some things too. Periodic table is not symmetrical but there are ways to make a game work anyways.
< 1321946760 607826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :move mouse in circle = circular turning
< 1321946761 394062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: same
< 1321946767 541584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quickly jolt it in the opposite direction = the obvious
< 1321946775 714732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be the easiest way to get a pinpoint aim on your angle of acceleration
< 1321946806 740561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do like the slow thrusts only being useful to achieve orbit or to otherwise make minor corrections
< 1321946811 333065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321946825 278721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a good thing to bind to space :P
< 1321946838 49230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm
< 1321946843 920281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you may even want three kinds of thrusts
< 1321946856 721166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would be for long-distance flight
< 1321946872 496382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or escape I guess
< 1321946872 615308 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With horoscope, the planets will not move much, but for a game of a few hours the movement of houses will be significant. You could also play by mail, or on an airplane, or whatever, to change a lot of things about the game; more changes than when you play chess by hand or by mail. But there would have to be time limit so that you cannot just wait until the planets are in your favor.
< 1321946890 841118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that brings up the question of how big the map is :)
< 1321946892 622770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then it would become trivial to evade slow-moving projectiles
< 1321946900 604111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mega-boost in a sideways direction
< 1321946909 551577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hopefully you don
< 1321946913 642690 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t crash into anything
< 1321946927 411346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sold on the mega-boost yet. it seems like it reduces the interestingness of the physics
< 1321946934 412698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah just a thought
< 1321946938 414556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321946947 646208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: two sounds sufficiently probably.
< 1321946948 683202 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For chess with hourglasses, you could have different hourglass with different durations having different movement abilities, or you could have hourglass be extra pieces that the different kind augment your power of normal pieces according to their position and time.
< 1321947082 741100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess with hourglasses
< 1321947083 925707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a good name
< 1321947095 797188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: another question is... how big the ships are :P
< 1321947117 461493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking they'd basically not be all that much more than simple small triangular-ish shapes, but that kinda reduces the interestingness of the ragdoll-physicsy aspect?
< 1321947140 295229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if the map is larger (larger map could benefit from more interesting varieties of planets, also would be good if any strategy is incorporated) then the mega-boost could instead be balanced by a long charge time.
< 1321947144 246273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if a ship blows up it just blows up into debris
< 1321947148 747588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if those hit things it'll be pretty painful
< 1321947173 570463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's good
< 1321947194 217682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: good, but not as good with smaller ships
< 1321947194 354593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on the velocity of the particles as well
< 1321947206 805107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily
< 1321947219 623858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how small are you thinking
< 1321947222 8967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :little tiny fast traveling space debris = death bullet
< 1321947238 798477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help I have no scale
< 1321947243 796395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "medium sized" an option?
< 1321947246 962344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/Asteroi1.png i was thinking... like that triangle ship, but maybe 2x bigger??? in physical terms
< 1321947250 318030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1321947251 422240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321947253 860540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty small
< 1321947256 993095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dunno about that
< 1321947261 414426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like different ship models???
< 1321947268 72819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds good
< 1321947270 584807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1321947273 840823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be wise
< 1321947277 196412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hold that off
< 1321947280 529063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with different ship models is blah blah blah balance :P
< 1321947281 28324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for later
< 1321947289 973298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably :P
< 1321947291 789590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with one kind of ship
< 1321947296 162144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's something to consider when deciding
< 1321947296 690612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321947297 939770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big ships are
< 1321947300 845227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed.
< 1321947303 169132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if they're small enough there's no room for variation.
< 1321947330 540991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'd like different ship models??? <-- like triangle and square?
< 1321947334 712649 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also different models could have different sizes and thus different masses but I don't even know what kind of advantages large ships would have
< 1321947340 7456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, square is a viable shape in space
< 1321947347 923288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah but it's also an UGLY shape.
< 1321947353 64213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason to be aerodynamic.
< 1321947356 858547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321947374 616988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd say bigger than the on-screen triangle there but not in scale to other space objects.
< 1321947383 287908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what shape then? I can manage some basic pixel art, but you seem to want to go for vector graphics rather
< 1321947397 147617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note: vector /wireframey/ stuff
< 1321947399 786884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like
< 1321947400 461560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :svg :P
< 1321947407 330495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something you could actually do on a vector display theoretically
< 1321947407 376748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are on 2D
< 1321947412 641285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hollow
< 1321947416 216070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321947417 462102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321947425 248607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mostly hollow
< 1321947428 287222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything has to be hollow :P
< 1321947448 747544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the Einstein spacecraft game.
< 1321947452 349835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you could do filled shapes by simply filling the hole. Due to the fact that the line has a width you will be able to fill a shape
< 1321947461 117269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if you could do that fast enough though
< 1321947469 714391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's about the aesthetic, not the implementation :P
< 1321947480 651196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: debris is a good idea, but obviously physics should be taken into account. not everything is going to make deadly space debris that radiates in many directions because that would make killing another ship in a close range encounter unwise
< 1321947484 892316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is basically to pump every polygon into the physics engine.
< 1321947496 831010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely you are going to use the sound card to run this on an analogue oscope in xy mode?
< 1321947498 526586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have special cases for "interesting" objects.
< 1321947503 305100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if not I'm not interested!
< 1321947509 251989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sry
< 1321947513 330840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321947517 39797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: graphics card to run it on a pixel display in opengl mode :P
< 1321947523 271411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well yeah
< 1321947527 968303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you seen the video of someone doing that for a demo right?
< 1321947532 278658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise let me find the link
< 1321947536 885795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1321947538 866646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you linked it
< 1321947539 639886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321947544 42386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321947552 24747 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you know how to make the Einstein spacecraft game?
< 1321947552 718020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: still it was amazing :P
< 1321947558 183061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nope
< 1321947564 363057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: gah now i want to get a simple prototype up and running.
< 1321947578 966090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would, uh, be a good way to get the project rolling.
< 1321947587 598575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either. But it is an idea.
< 1321947602 723824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well the good thing is, it makes me want to work on the thing i also need for my other game project.
< 1321947609 561424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good
< 1321947618 348270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are lots of good things to a prototype
< 1321947618 434282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which is known as
< 1321947625 74429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: project i don't want to write any fucking glsl shaders
< 1321947628 546582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: in case you haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g
< 1321947646 868351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so
< 1321947648 988136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 minutes from now
< 1321947651 161439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM DISAPPEARING
< 1321947655 470006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WRITING THE REST OF THIS PAPER
< 1321947661 569574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321947662 411119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i think you can agree that that is the best name
< 1321947674 971590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the games, you might not require shaders, you might not require 3D, you might not require much at all. It depend much on what game you are making.
< 1321947675 505171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er what is?
< 1321947677 682423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: watch that video first, it is like 3 minutes or something. Not exactly long.
< 1321947682 205936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: which is known as
< 1321947682 772324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: project i don't want to write any fucking glsl shaders
< 1321947686 841899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321947687 864490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321947692 395859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good
< 1321947694 712437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :very enterprise
< 1321947696 808443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: everything is done by shaders these days
< 1321947715 524213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as in, you need at least a basic shader to get anything drawn
< 1321947719 605980 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, HOW
< 1321947723 784051 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You don't have to write a shader if you use a text mode.
< 1321947724 940261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what
< 1321947727 340168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are using opengl 2.x
< 1321947733 632280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then it isn't opengl?
< 1321947742 546249 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are oscilloscopes actually arbitrary display thingies that just .. what
< 1321947745 46623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, then it isn't opengl.
< 1321947748 798985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they're vector displays
< 1321947752 330273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh that, well they have an xy mode
< 1321947756 979623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are vector displays yes
< 1321947763 323169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway the best way to discuss balance is to actually have concepts coded in the game to test.
< 1321947776 724173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: kallisti: (what the project actually is is a library which compiles functional list folds and maps and shit to glsl shader code.)
< 1321947778 518676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321947781 813283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sgeo: was a mistake
< 1321947783 274151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: normally the x signal is taken from time, but you can just put it in xy mode and use one input for each axis
< 1321947785 464555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because this asserts that the mechanic is practical to implement
< 1321947792 275883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it's already implemented
< 1321947792 565625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (because)
< 1321947797 130390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it allows you to actually test it.
< 1321947798 9373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (i don't want to write any fucking glsl shaders)
< 1321947801 849383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, that is a simplification of the normal operation mode, but basically yes
< 1321947811 611391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have stuff like triggers and what not too
< 1321947823 884296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wouldn't work on a modern digital scope of course.
< 1321947827 575658 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ah, ok.
< 1321947828 57198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use bitmap displays
< 1321947833 461729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is why games tend to have large numbers of cool things implemented in them that are subsequently removed in the production release.
< 1321947845 567208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or left as like easter eggs or cheats or whatever
< 1321947852 753684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes.
< 1321947877 45642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and networking will be essentially because, well, we need to players to actually test it.
< 1321947908 27850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah, but i'd rather just get a simple ship flying in space with some random masses :P
< 1321947910 536149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first
< 1321947914 210774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yeah
< 1321947921 527933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be weird to write the protocol before you have anything else.
< 1321947941 420493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw the problem with project i don't want to write any fucking glsl shaders is that instead i have to write a countably infinite number of glsl shaders
< 1321947944 172825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by writing a compiler to them.
< 1321947951 101622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: (i don't want to write any fucking glsl shaders) <-- it is quite easy actualy
< 1321947952 553674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you dropped the ball elliott" - a person
< 1321947953 865993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually*
< 1321947967 726497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep, but i don't like writing c, and i don't like writing restricted c even more
< 1321947970 470884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you won't be doing lighting calculations right?
< 1321947980 850709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well there's neon glow, but... no.
< 1321947985 922471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HOWEVER, I will be for EC
< 1321947988 637234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then it is basically trivial
< 1321947996 426054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i might as well save the pain of writing glsl once
< 1321947999 678925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reap the real benefits later
< 1321948022 61564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be interesting to have a gun that simply emits force into space, though I suppose it would have to obey newton's third law
< 1321948023 300185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually the major issue is getting the normals the right way around
< 1321948028 26781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the input data
< 1321948040 383089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm taking a course in 3D graphics currently
< 1321948047 556344 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically you could change the momentum and direction of things like asteroids.
< 1321948049 939537 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youscope is available as a .wav file somewhere in the interwebs; X and Y inputs as the left/right channels, just hook a 'scope to your sound card.
< 1321948056 980371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wanna hear that.
< 1321948065 998657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that would be fun
< 1321948066 371182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is linked in the video description
< 1321948068 690250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^
< 1321948083 765978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah i can hear things you say right after me
< 1321948083 891435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no clue what purpose that would have :P
< 1321948083 967444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyway "Most soundcards (and other players) seem to have a lowpass filter at about half of the samplerate, making some effects here look quite strange. The soundcard used in this video just didn't have proper filters so it happens to be suitable for these effects."
< 1321948096 660755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: throwing an asteroid at your opponent :P
< 1321948105 498377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: strange, you must have a new beta version of irc then?
< 1321948120 821201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: holy shit this sounds good
< 1321948122 836786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you could like...
< 1321948130 206267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right; I was thinking it might be linked, but thanks to noscript couldn't click the "see more" thing.
< 1321948133 450353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: collide asteroids into planets and fuck up their orbits
< 1321948138 513635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's scary I don't even want to think about that.
< 1321948145 59826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: sounds fun!
< 1321948150 880743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah
< 1321948157 102114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: space sandbox: the game
< 1321948168 617310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://universesandbox.com/ :P
< 1321948182 16930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might like it. I don't. Oh well.
< 1321948184 478014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://mirror.kapsi.fi/koodaa.mine.nu/tvt/youscope-wave.wav seriously listen to this?????
< 1321948186 424279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GOOD
< 1321948198 789849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite horrible
< 1321948212 282900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of structure it has is amazing
< 1321948228 946724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why am I hearing silence
< 1321948237 88322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: turn up speakers??
< 1321948240 280984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :max
< 1321948244 685502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like sound to me
< 1321948245 707738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait for it to change maybe your soundcard/speakers suck and are filtering that part
< 1321948251 943496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: check with another sound file to see if you can hear it?
< 1321948256 351212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not unlikely
< 1321948262 87331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it works fine with my SB Live 5.1 card
< 1321948264 505066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: laptop speakers and sound card
< 1321948268 882390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1321948268 963350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, hold on
< 1321948272 458171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: me too
< 1321948276 464645 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :headphones for optimal experience
< 1321948278 830239 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is great
< 1321948297 874937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :note for headphone users: turn the volume way down to avoid damaging your hearing
< 1321948299 552899 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe with the right amount of imagination (and/or chemistry) you can listen to youscope-wave.wav on your headphones, close your eyes, and see the corresponding effects.
< 1321948311 583514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lspci | grep -i audio
< 1321948313 746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset High Definition Audio (rev 06)
< 1321948323 476727 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa hd audio nice
< 1321948324 365148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's HIGH DEFINITION
< 1321948336 499521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sounds fun.
< 1321948341 580569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: does other sound play currently? Sometimes I had alsa bug out on me randomly
< 1321948341 890167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe I'm deaf?
< 1321948344 876536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : note for headphone users: turn the volume way down to avoid damaging your hearing
< 1321948349 460082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--vorpal, 54 years old
< 1321948354 487771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Try another sound? :P
< 1321948358 922747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ lspci | grep -i audio
< 1321948358 967908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh right. let me check
< 1321948359 19157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 05)
< 1321948359 64301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:00.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Barts HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 6800 Series]
< 1321948359 64453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 07)
< 1321948375 49720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1321948376 251958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no audio
< 1321948380 739405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: like, "Disabling IRQ [IRQ for sound card]" randomly in dmesg.
< 1321948385 99841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue what caused those still
< 1321948434 393427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do video cards have audio cards nowadays.
< 1321948455 170986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm alsa reload didn't work
< 1321948465 150155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can send audio over HDMI
< 1321948467 291850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why
< 1321948471 53033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyyyyyyyyyyyyy
< 1321948475 241551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: its not alsa
< 1321948475 325877 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because MULTIMEDIA.
< 1321948478 712809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: try downloading it and mplayer
< 1321948489 867353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there we go. alsa force-reload worked
< 1321948490 279365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it is more like Digital SCART than DVI
< 1321948494 964206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(really)
< 1321948503 442640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: huh
< 1321948507 494353 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The win7 laptop automagically switched default audio-out to HDMI when I plugged in the (no speakers or anything of that sort) monitor.
< 1321948511 26536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the cleverest.
< 1321948516 231760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZH1p0EUBs
< 1321948516 355673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens
< 1321948517 127520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321948528 355678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think alsa reload didn't want to reload because other things were using it.
< 1321948533 680044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:04.0 System peripheral: Compaq Computer Corporation Integrated Lights Out Controller (rev 03)
< 1321948533 725530 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:04.2 System peripheral: Compaq Computer Corporation Integrated Lights Out  Processor (rev 03)
< 1321948534 253332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: synth straight to oscilloscope :D
< 1321948536 784767 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what *that* does.
< 1321948539 38843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321948547 491552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice
< 1321948549 402851 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Integrated Lights Out Controller"... sounds like it's for punching other components.
< 1321948568 573972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you got the uplink edition
< 1321948582 962936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :desktop: http://sprunge.us/ZRPi laptop: http://sprunge.us/IGJg
< 1321948590 535386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm sounds mostly like a lot of frequency modulation synthesis
< 1321948593 206641 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was from a server I happened to have ssh'd to accidentally.)
< 1321948594 469309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1321948599 786385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: uh its that demo Vorpal linked
< 1321948601 377672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in .wav form
< 1321948603 954777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fed to an oscilloscope
< 1321948609 377625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to produce graphics
< 1321948613 781951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i mean how was it generated
< 1321948619 518741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you /did/ watch the video right?
< 1321948624 896069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it.
< 1321948629 17001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1321948654 66497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway I GUESS the shader might be trivial for aii but i dunno, maybe i want to do the background with a shader????
< 1321948667 278815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay.
< 1321948668 443582 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind
< 1321948685 362729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep. You want to basically draw a quad filling the screen and map the texture to it. You do that in the shader. Quite easy too
< 1321948689 715699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: isn't it nice
< 1321948690 575438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1321948693 366402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like....
< 1321948695 363782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with no lighting calculations
< 1321948696 826639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d waveform stuff
< 1321948698 466633 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321948702 93512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting as a sound synthesis technique
< 1321948709 429120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no i mean generate it with the shader because there's a lot of parallaxen...
< 1321948710 469954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1321948712 18225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedural
< 1321948712 545905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff
< 1321948729 129421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I don't know anything about that.
< 1321948743 654731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wtf that's insane.
< 1321948750 372253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you even do that with a time-domain signal
< 1321948759 104855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: do what with a time-domain signal?
< 1321948769 573748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make animations basically
< 1321948772 471387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1321948774 201571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask me
< 1321948776 376515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't make it
< 1321948790 408304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1321948792 473101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still amazes me that sound card even work.
< 1321948794 585466 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just draw one frame and then draw another?
< 1321948796 818043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cards*
< 1321948800 706807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is left channel Y is right.
< 1321948801 566960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah
< 1321948824 727985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a line connecting everything on screen though
< 1321948829 975188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right
< 1321948851 954273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that's not how x/y-mode works on an oscilloscope
< 1321948856 851332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is, you can see it when it goes to a point
< 1321948857 153263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321948858 512473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just faint?
< 1321948860 232404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1321948864 75111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1321948876 868255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Europeans started to place magnetic mountains on their maps in the sixteenth century. A notable example is Gerardus Mercator, whose famous maps included a magnetic mountain or two near the North Pole. At first, he just placed a mountain in an arbitrary location; but later he attempted to measure its location based on declinations from different locations in Europe. When subsequent measurements resulted
< 1321948876 974308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : in two contradictory estimates for the mountain, he simply placed two mountains on the map.[2][7]
< 1321948881 762266 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also sort-of do the "same thing in reverse", use a sound card as an oscilloscope, if you don't mind having a horribly limited and cheap-ass 'scope; but there's software that has lots of buttons and all: http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/scope_en
< 1321948900 182902 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, if you move fast enough you can't see the line; you "draw" by moving slowly enough.
< 1321948904 543440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what?
< 1321948925 36642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's some insanely complex shit going on between the left and right channel though.
< 1321948937 551550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mind blown
< 1321948947 437500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what
< 1321948957 972995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: magnetic mountains? What?
< 1321948966 950003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see wikipedia article ``history of geomagnetism''
< 1321948968 587415 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got quite a lot of applause when it was shown.
< 1321948977 164747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway i forget what the other thing that isn't shaders is, that isn't deprecated
< 1321948982 860163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something buffer objects???
< 1321948988 220091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything Buffer Objects.
< 1321948993 537817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like two things that aren't deprecated in opengl these days, i know that much
< 1321948994 678034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you use those together with shaders
< 1321949006 414745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's all, right?
< 1321949009 19018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like texture buffer objects or whatever their name was for textures
< 1321949014 441762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there
< 1321949015 16301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more
< 1321949024 257614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is mesmerized
< 1321949027 556153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertex arrays?? or??
< 1321949031 749348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you need a bit of C code to synchronize it all
< 1321949035 89210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit
< 1321949044 796812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and yes there are those. Which is like buffer objects for loading vertex data in
< 1321949053 461858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to send everything to the GPU every frame
< 1321949055 865627 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frame and Vertex and Pixel and Texture and Whatever Buffer Objects.
< 1321949061 856849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what i really want is just a "list of newest things"
< 1321949067 648048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with anything replaced by a newer thing omitted.
< 1321949070 668746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1321949072 112275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to
< 1321949073 800944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do things
< 1321949076 434638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy
< 1321949077 374730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing things
< 1321949082 630240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321949084 776851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't
< 1321949098 627507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, I believe there is a #version nnn or such you put in the shader code that means it will warn you if you use stuff that isn't supported in said version
< 1321949102 577302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ok
< 1321949107 467031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like #version 330 for opengl 3.3
< 1321949115 285265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no i mean there's things that aren't deprecated but you're not meant to use, i think even gl_begin/gl_end stuff isn't deprecated
< 1321949124 526971 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "unjoy"-as-in-verb the opposite of "enjoy"?
< 1321949124 792120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that like
< 1321949131 201339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gl_begin/gl_end are deprecated
< 1321949137 286528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: citation plz
< 1321949140 780450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read that they aren't
< 1321949144 875347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is just that they are supported in a compatibility profile
< 1321949144 919078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone expected them to be but they weren't
< 1321949151 698178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1321949153 692259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/OpenGL ;; this is not helpful for figuring out which apis i have to use
< 1321949156 481609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it includes everything
< 1321949174 778162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll look it up.
< 1321949291 468326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the book I have here is for opengl 3.1
< 1321949297 935951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not exactly helpful on that point
< 1321949327 729043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (doing things) I suppose you intend to have realistic gravity?
< 1321949342 367465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's
< 1321949348 124081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of the point of the whole newtonian thing
< 1321949348 234495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you on intel graphics?
< 1321949354 523306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. :p
< 1321949354 938978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I think you are stuck on opengl 2.x
< 1321949355 640946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: we're literally implementing newtonian physics
< 1321949361 366531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1321949369 891151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then you can't use the new stuff
< 1321949374 102428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are stuck on the old version
< 1321949374 927479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1321949378 446607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh i am sure i can use shaders...
< 1321949407 482520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes however your physics won't be realistic unless the spaceship to planet/star mass ratio is realistic even though the sizes are not.
< 1321949417 504545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I guess you're just going to do that?
< 1321949417 781414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try this: glxinfo | grep OpenGL | grep version
< 1321949422 366376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should get two lines
< 1321949433 40238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you can just make the planets more massive without increasing their size.
< 1321949439 278917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't collapse into black holes./
< 1321949442 389687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, so yes
< 1321949445 224266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop (intel graphics):
< 1321949447 169322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ glxinfo | grep OpenGL | grep version
< 1321949447 214684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.7.1
< 1321949447 214875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20
< 1321949449 23141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: glxinfo: command not found
< 1321949449 609930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :desktop:
< 1321949455 852718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ glxinfo | grep OpenGL | grep version
< 1321949456 20292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL version string: 4.1.11005 Compatibility Profile Context
< 1321949456 66804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL shading language version string: 4.10
< 1321949458 579351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so install it?
< 1321949474 461539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/glxinfo is owned by mesa-demos 8.0.1-1
< 1321949480 783528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mesa-demos? Really?
< 1321949509 729030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.11.1
< 1321949509 800431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20
< 1321949528 64159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then you are stuck on the old version of opengl with glBegin/glEnd and so on
< 1321949532 542695 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89237.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321949534 178064 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one problem I'm forseeing is that gravity assisted manuevers will be difficult when you have to reason about multiple gravitational forces pulling on your spacecraft
< 1321949534 808910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:  OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20
< 1321949539 80996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might be able to use a few basic shaders, but I wouldn't bet on it
< 1321949543 527129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also orbits even?
< 1321949545 773301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20
< 1321949547 963408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep but you don't have most of the modern features
< 1321949554 135647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno I'm not really a space physics expert
< 1321949561 779617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm pretty sure 1.2 will be quite enough for my limited needs.
< 1321949562 266380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can do some /very/ basic shaders
< 1321949577 653713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: still I'm pretty sure you only have the stateful API available
< 1321949579 932962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see, for instance, the fact that GPipe is completely GLSL 1.2
< 1321949595 680508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I wouldn't use gpipe then
< 1321949597 590853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too limited
< 1321949599 850475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321949613 643568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise that
< 1321949616 423846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most games work on intel cards
< 1321949617 274521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321949620 804936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however slowly
< 1321949641 175865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not the high end ones on linux. See PH trying to get stuff working
< 1321949645 905392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no
< 1321949646 515600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's
< 1321949647 225689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1321949651 668768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has massive driver problems
< 1321949654 38272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most things crash his card
< 1321949662 315327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a problem which i have never experienced
< 1321949667 771946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is entirely due to his system being fucked
< 1321949669 734291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trine requires stuff not found on intel graphics for example
< 1321949678 287422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's opengl binding: also opengl 2.1! all the people building actual shit on top of that MUST BE COMPLAINING!! oh wait they're not people use it just fine
< 1321949724 136576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: point is, opengl 2.x is a completely different API from opengl 3.x and later
< 1321949752 135325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ph
< 1321949756 815313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prior to the release of OpenGL 3.0, the new revision was known as the codename Longs Peak. At the time of its original announcement, Longs Peak was presented as the first major API revision in OpenGL's lifetime. It consisted of an overhaul to the way that OpenGL works, calling for fundamental changes to the API.
< 1321949756 892287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The draft introduced a change to object management. The GL 2.1 object model was built upon the state-based design of OpenGL. That is, in order to modify an object or to use it, one needs to bind the object to the state system, then make modifications to the state or perform function calls that use the bound object.
< 1321949756 937779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of OpenGL's use of a state system, objects must be mutable. That is, the basic structure of an object can change at any time, even if the rendering pipeline is asynchronously using that object. A texture object can be redefined from 2D to 3D. This requires any OpenGL implementations to add a degree of complexity to internal object management.
< 1321949760 311338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under the Longs Peak API, object creation would become atomic, using templates to define the properties of an object which would be created with a single function call. The object could then be used immediately across multiple threads. Objects would also be immutable; however, they could have their contents changed and updated. For example, a texture could change its image, but its size and format coul
< 1321949763 772595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1321949765 294444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d not be changed.
< 1321949767 318687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1321949769 363768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1321949769 409225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are still major changes
< 1321949771 300484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1321949773 313755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The final specification proved far less revolutionary than the Longs Peak proposal. Instead of removing all immediate mode and fixed functionality (non-shader mode), the spec included them as deprecated features. The proposed object model was not included, and no plans have been announced to include it in any future revisions. As a result, the API remained largely the same with a few existing extension
< 1321949776 794075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as major as they wanted
< 1321949778 335699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s being promoted to core functionality.
< 1321949780 215800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL 3.0 added support for frame buffer objects, hardware instancing, vertex array objects (VAOs), and sRGB framebuffers (gamma 2.2).[26] OpenGL 3.0 introduced a deprecation mechanism to simplify the API in future revisions.
< 1321949797 783118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also will the n-body problem be a... problem?
< 1321949804 881477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "With the release of the OpenGL 3.1 specification, a compatibility extension was also released that enables developers to access the OpenGL 1.X/2.X functionality removed in OpenGL 3.1.[28] Notably, legacy functionality for wide line support is retained."
< 1321949810 744025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Removed legacy functionality includes:[29]
< 1321949810 789375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :    All fixed-function options"
< 1321949817 330670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direct mode
< 1321949817 475595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Color index mode, i.e. pixel formats with color palettes
< 1321949837 184596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm not intending to use the fixed-function pipeline, so woo?
< 1321949841 581915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah the whole game will crash if you have more than 2 bodies
< 1321949851 621426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321949853 455217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (hint: it doesn't have to be exact)
< 1321949858 322557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but afaik fixed function + some limited shader is all you have in opengl 2.x
< 1321949865 632317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods
< 1321949878 868906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes have i ever said i was planning to use not-shaders
< 1321949894 75330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vertex Array Objects is new in opengl 3.0
< 1321949908 862231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blowing up moons should definitely be possible and awesome
< 1321949911 472166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* fine, so i have to use something else
< 1321949915 317901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they become... rings?
< 1321949931 678854 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you collect 50 rings you get to the bonus stage wait that was something else.
< 1321949957 812273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, i'm planning to buy a new computer soon sOOooooOOoooOoooOooOoooooo
< 1321949958 389222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I can't help you with opengl 2.x much. I only ever worked with fixed function in old opengl. And with 3.3 or later for modern opengl
< 1321950009 502555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the dwarf fortress approach to map generation would be to formulate the universe from the big bang, with some randomized initial conditions, and then allow matter to stabilize into celestial bodies.
< 1321950035 332606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's what all sandbox games want to be really
< 1321950049 457340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway i could just use the fixed function shit
< 1321950062 109790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, i could probably just software render this, i just don't want to
< 1321950077 710686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : And when you collect 50 rings you get to the bonus stage wait that was something else. <-- wait, was that sonic?
< 1321950083 645 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1321950089 981689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321950099 629825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *mario
< 1321950139 511012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there was that starfox game that had rings too iirc
< 1321950157 768144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I seriously doubt a common PC could simulate the formation of galaxies over billions of years faster than the universe actually did it. (strong CakeProphet hypothesis)
< 1321950163 209642 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also VBOs were added to core OpenGL 3.x, but there's the GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object extension in 2.1 already, and Mesa has supported it since version 5.1 from the 2003s.
< 1321950171 84182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321950171 366068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is that your final prophecy
< 1321950173 498962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or, that it would be fast enough for the patience of the common gamer (weak CakeProphet hypothesis)
< 1321950189 301863 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extensions are of course mildly annoying to use.
< 1321950207 546722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Gee, here I was thinking Vorpal's statement that people never did shaders properly before OpenGL 3.0 was bullshit :P
< 1321950207 592196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am still a prophet: kallisti is merely my true name
< 1321950211 496378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/OpenGL 3.0/2008/
< 1321950214 161364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was what I meant to type.
< 1321950226 233904 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it depends on the definition of "properly".
< 1321950234 10292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGLRaw/1.1.0.2/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-Raw-ARB-VertexBufferObject.html
< 1321950238 99952 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ glxinfo
< 1321950238 173410 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'glxinfo' is currently not installed.  To run 'glxinfo' please ask your administrator to install the package 'mesa-utils'
< 1321950238 220344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no silly workstation installation.
< 1321950248 200612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.Raw.ARB.Compatibility
< 1321950248 277133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.Raw.Core32
< 1321950273 530497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLintptr, a pointer so shiny it glints.
< 1321950299 21632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'll have to ask PH about prediction algorithms for this stuff.
< 1321950308 390832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it shouldn't be TOO hard?
< 1321950402 203345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not impossibly difficult no.
< 1321950411 205619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to create /some/ algorithm to generate a map.
< 1321950423 584331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know, you are going to /hate/ TES lore about the dwemer ("dwarves")
< 1321950427 645452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I wasn't talking about that.
< 1321950431 190805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh
< 1321950435 183374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I was talking about prediction for network stuff, since that is pretty important.
< 1321950438 168676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For maps I don't know what we're doing.
< 1321950439 170852 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runge-Kutta is the default differential-equation-solver method for the TI-86. (The other alternative is a straightforward Euler thing.)
< 1321950439 568299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they are actually a kind of stocky underground elves in the lore.
< 1321950441 407185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Procedural generation sounds right?
< 1321950445 397294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gross
< 1321950450 391363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't even know how that works so uh... >_>
< 1321950454 938794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :P
< 1321950464 140993 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're also MYSTERIOUS. What HAPPENED to them.
< 1321950472 343053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very true
< 1321950486 26058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there are multiple theories in the in-game literature, as usual in TES games.
< 1321950498 702617 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose Skyrim elucidates much on the Dwemer? It doesn't sound like one of its CORE COMPETENCIES.
< 1321950501 329970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What if there's no thrusts and you just shoot in the opposite direction to thrust.
< 1321950508 882955 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read some of the books in Morrowind/Oblivion, yes.
< 1321950511 678483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also weren't really short actually.
< 1321950521 869172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't suppose Skyrim elucidates much on the Dwemer? It doesn't sound like one of its CORE COMPETENCIES. <-- some stuff it does.
< 1321950525 84228 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just nondeterministically split the game state based on every possible player input (including no input) until the game resolves the problem by actually receiving the input. :P
< 1321950525 129433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much though
< 1321950530 87472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds really dumb :P
< 1321950534 404927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: more than oblivion, less than morrowind I would say
< 1321950561 844860 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just buy the silly game. 32.40 EUR with 0% VAT from Åland.
< 1321950564 920115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there are way more dwemer ruins in Skyrim than in cyrodil (spelling?)
< 1321950566 214657 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not *so* bad.
< 1321950581 914442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could pirate it (but you might feel bad).
< 1321950583 754322 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two i's, I think.
< 1321950596 403023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like QuickBasic but not?
< 1321950599 54615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in row? Pretty sure it isn't Cyrodiil...
< 1321950610 899082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cyrodiil is an Imperial province in the south-central region of Tamriel and the home of a humanoid race known as Imperials."
< 1321950614 310162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1321950626 678086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the setting of oblivion
< 1321950627 147791 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's no I in TEAM, but there's two in CYRODIIL", like the old saying goes.
< 1321950632 459147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know what it means.)
< 1321950656 653329 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lurchtime.
< 1321950670 258562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it means cyrodiil is a geography organism with two eyes.
< 1321950671 334587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also some indication that orcs might be a type of elves.
< 1321950698 163504 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321950701 223908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they messed up their conlangs that is
< 1321950754 869295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically in Skyrim everyone is elf.
< 1321950763 106184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf are elf, orc are elf.
< 1321950766 114578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not humans. Or most monsters
< 1321950772 885132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not YET.
< 1321950780 263119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wait for Skyrim II: Human Are Elf Boogaloo
< 1321950782 161684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe in TES VI
< 1321950791 31020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're all Skyrim now. That's just how popular it is.
< 1321950791 884505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncb7lHNWbnU
< 1321950801 879326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim XIXIIXIXIXIXIX: So Very Tired
< 1321950805 815210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 10 minute tournamet final in Starcraft II
< 1321950807 566104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321950824 79759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why do i want to watch this
< 1321950838 406091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you mentioned wanting to watch a starcraft video that isn't 2 hours
< 1321950847 582512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also argonians and whatever the name of the cat people is are not elves.
< 1321950851 281558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i stopped watching at "300 dollars for the winner" (ok i won't stop)
< 1321950859 817059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i take it the korean prizes are like 1 mil
< 1321950861 994074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dollars
< 1321950866 651954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea
< 1321950867 390969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bretons might be human-elf hybrids according to some of the lore.
< 1321950874 569437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: read as "bitcoins"
< 1321950876 253103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually don't know how badass these people are.
< 1321950877 984559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear to god
< 1321950881 81346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321950887 340059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but this lore has been around longer than skyrim
< 1321950905 801492 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That video's from the beta, there wasn't much going on back then
< 1321950909 753377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: SWEET IT'S IN 720P
< 1321950914 935390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I can always count on you to know things.
< 1321950946 716211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fuck it, if i'm watching this it'll be in 1080p
< 1321950948 46212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as far as I can tell protoss is going to win?
< 1321950951 584463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spoiler)
< 1321950965 470895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess i'll
< 1321950966 238726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch this
< 1321950967 476103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously
< 1321950968 571443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 480p
< 1321950970 44327 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Last weekend's MLG (in the USA) had a $120k prize pool
< 1321950970 842884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a reasonable person
< 1321950977 634303 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how that's divvied up though
< 1321950983 546842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have any idea what's going on?
< 1321950988 418748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i just started
< 1321950988 685224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1321950997 220182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the blue things
< 1321951001 476630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are
< 1321951002 122967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue
< 1321951002 701168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :minerals
< 1321951005 279586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321951006 752812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :resources
< 1321951008 495612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they were flying things
< 1321951015 119794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones are the zergs i know zergs
< 1321951019 365238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: SWEET IT'S IN 720P <-- only? there is 1080p sometimes too
< 1321951028 209539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see a few lines later
< 1321951028 862233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zerg is the generic alien mutant things
< 1321951031 716198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321951033 273357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :protoss are the yellow-blue shiny
< 1321951042 478397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: out-macroed!!! worst concept i can think of
< 1321951043 656694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what happened to 4096p?
< 1321951049 985577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm?
< 1321951055 286788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: still going i think
< 1321951061 825552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know what macro means in this context?
< 1321951062 10205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 480p
< 1321951062 852491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nothing i say will make sense unless you sync to the point i'm at :P
< 1321951065 660032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: slow download?
< 1321951067 155798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i assume it's
< 1321951068 7796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a macro?
< 1321951071 59470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321951072 827536 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's macromanagement
< 1321951074 182339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :macromanagement
< 1321951075 934486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321951077 952077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jargon
< 1321951078 901362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so weird
< 1321951082 446357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes and also i literally couldn't distinguish the higher ones because
< 1321951084 606671 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cf. micro
< 1321951085 165324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube compression is bad
< 1321951094 107759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically what normal people do when they play starcraft. managing mineral usage and expansion and research
< 1321951102 118473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: micromanagement is individual unit movement and tricks.
< 1321951110 526078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy
< 1321951113 135909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy proxy proxy
< 1321951125 783916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they doing this commentary over skype
< 1321951127 641208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a proxy is an offensive outpost next to the enemy base
< 1321951130 24261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it
< 1321951136 574389 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to restrict them from expanding
< 1321951139 263710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting more resources
< 1321951146 658106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good protoss strategy
< 1321951155 214830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, not starcraft
< 1321951158 523303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you play sc or just watch videos of it
< 1321951163 412436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel this is probably a legitimate distinction since
< 1321951167 627298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I play it.
< 1321951169 408444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it is fun, but you seem to need to spend a lot of time to get into it.
< 1321951172 284965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most sports fans don't really play sports much on average i would guess
< 1321951176 821624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321951178 113163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321951192 739035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i'm two minutes in, are they actually playing properly or just like preparing
< 1321951206 618375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :next someone is going to start talking about DOTA games.
< 1321951212 34341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know what you mean
< 1321951225 253401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ok here's the real question i was asking
< 1321951225 490894 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1321951228 887914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't tehy doing anything interseting
< 1321951243 789785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they will
< 1321951268 218159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this game is fucking weird
< 1321951281 134488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to say the commentary style is very soothing
< 1321951281 906303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321951287 90765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it's basically obnoxious
< 1321951290 701891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..yes
< 1321951291 61781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would not watch this without it
< 1321951314 146671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ever watched a DOTA style game?
< 1321951319 418123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321951321 574863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow
< 1321951323 410169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this game
< 1321951323 723475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good for you
< 1321951331 587439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are few more boring things
< 1321951345 970494 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321951347 814831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh hm
< 1321951347 965261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, probably players of the game understand it. I don't really
< 1321951352 645802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we actually seeing the screen of someone playing
< 1321951354 59598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what time are you on?
< 1321951356 484801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just of a commenterer
< 1321951357 482483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:51
< 1321951359 764662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no it's a spectator screen
< 1321951364 547678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spectator player person
< 1321951365 371772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:00
< 1321951368 968986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: right i was thinking that
< 1321951372 39330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much seemed to be actually being done
< 1321951416 310674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh well the protoss dude has a proxy at the zergs base
< 1321951416 625164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're basically buiding up units to prepare for a battle
< 1321951442 438774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoulder-poking
< 1321951446 892943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most menacing
< 1321951448 925510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so the protoss player can basically warp in units from his main base to that proxy thing
< 1321951452 981157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1321951480 970698 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you want to see the player's POV, http://www.youtube.com/user/remembertomorrow0 has a ton of videos
< 1321951497 204493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "banelings" are little suicide bombers
< 1321951498 881355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have a feeling it'd be signifiacntly less comprehensible
< 1321951501 97160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for zerg
< 1321951511 209551 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're right, it would
< 1321951519 396391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's kind of hard to see what's going actually.
< 1321951540 88529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i wanted to mention was
< 1321951542 668067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not starcraft 1
< 1321951544 991979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--commenter
< 1321951545 37208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321951545 866974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321951549 26589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1321951549 894002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that
< 1321951550 367502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd
< 1321951551 658385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commentary guy
< 1321951556 587393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so the nydus worm
< 1321951560 453002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1321951562 695252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly explosions everywhere
< 1321951562 740865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets the zerg funnel units across the map
< 1321951571 168387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloodg
< 1321951573 877781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so while that battle is going on
< 1321951577 969086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah alien battle
< 1321951579 820724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is going on at the protoss base
< 1321951585 882089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat
< 1321951586 741287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can't see for most of the time.
< 1321951590 60830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do humans play this game
< 1321951592 481827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you buy ten monitors
< 1321951599 38840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no just one
< 1321951609 722897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play it with a keyboard
< 1321951617 216437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is amazing
< 1321951622 661659 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do single CPUs run multiple threads?
< 1321951636 258860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: cpus aren't people
< 1321951641 237300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant reliably save register state
< 1321951650 608505 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a bad person
< 1321951653 268408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1321951654 182268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he basically kills the other guys base /after his base is gone/ with /workers/
< 1321951664 919237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and then has a flying unit that finished off the other buildings
< 1321951671 602789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321951756 550124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to watch one of Deewiant's i guess???
< 1321951759 6825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gosh so many
< 1321951803 984260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant what's the best video
< 1321951806 277442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the viedos
< 1321951908 494020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not showering is Ruining E-Sports (self.starcraft)
< 1321951910 768899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :starcraft
< 1321951958 849078 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, enjoying the Korean national sport I see.
< 1321951960 693794 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I dunno, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01CTAzgTuKI is new and seems like it's not an entirely shitty game, try that
< 1321951995 349635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, another zerg protoss
< 1321952014 224895 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I avoided the PvPs and ZvZs because they'd probably be boring
< 1321952018 284411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he
< 1321952019 229877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they made terran underpowered because in starcraft I terran was basically the best.
< 1321952019 339096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-tabbing
< 1321952039 121779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough minerals
< 1321952039 901833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough minerals
< 1321952040 278629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough minerals
< 1321952040 783414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough minerals
< 1321952040 920280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looks like it
< 1321952040 966051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough minerals
< 1321952041 513232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough minerals
< 1321952047 405656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: to do WHAT???
< 1321952048 381720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that just
< 1321952050 303945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the video recorder
< 1321952052 754235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no clue
< 1321952056 131241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi
< 1321952057 651934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a lot of people are stupid
< 1321952060 348496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thikn that if they just spam stuff
< 1321952061 369727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: me too
< 1321952062 634794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are magically better
< 1321952063 817180 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He's pressing hotkeys, you can see the icon pressed in the lower right corner
< 1321952063 974156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so-called "
< 1321952068 702067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actions per minute"
< 1321952071 709103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but when the alt-tab dialogue pops up
< 1321952072 729493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle
< 1321952075 218409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a hotkey
< 1321952084 819434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first minute or so
< 1321952089 357930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: people like to spam keys to keep them "warmed up" or something
< 1321952091 295677 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be bothered to find it
< 1321952102 382584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this guy is just pressing the same key a lot.
< 1321952106 529408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1321952120 936233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the key to starcraft skillz is to have ADD
< 1321952122 866728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wtf "nobody likes Quebec"! HEY Deezer doesn't represent us at all! Please dissociate us from this fucktard.
< 1321952123 7759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1321952125 591650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help
< 1321952129 424454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive entered another world
< 1321952139 846507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so yeah /watching/ the beginning of a starcraft game is really boring.
< 1321952142 787131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't noticed
< 1321952149 788671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i just skip to the middle :P
< 1321952159 69149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, might miss something
< 1321952164 551871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im already missing everything
< 1321952167 635090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by way of having no idea what's going on
< 1321952180 224142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait is there any actual space involve
< 1321952180 545029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1321952185 475209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's grass that's so
< 1321952186 428527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unspacelike
< 1321952193 349142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like floating space colony maps
< 1321952202 137459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's it.
< 1321952223 215862 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The idea is that in complicated situations the player with a higher APM will have an advantage (assuming a fairly equal situation otherwise), and it's easier to keep your APM high by doing stuff quickly right from the start instead of speeding up only when necessary
< 1321952236 425621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I disagree with that perspective
< 1321952238 460743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the idea.
< 1321952255 906306 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you disagree
< 1321952264 466005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: higher APM = advantage always
< 1321952269 645488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess staying active makes sense.
< 1321952271 339144 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not always
< 1321952272 881324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this guy can almost certainly type faster than me
< 1321952277 544584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they only good at pressing the same key repeatedly
< 1321952284 719199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he's not typing anything
< 1321952289 498159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but he's
< 1321952290 497903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing keys
< 1321952291 186863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots
< 1321952291 232723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as far as words
< 1321952295 947410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh those whispers are
< 1321952296 215314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I dunno what's up with that.
< 1321952298 506333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a voice saying not enough energy
< 1321952303 415355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321952307 488473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1321952310 503821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a creepy ghost baby
< 1321952312 435250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying not enough energy
< 1321952354 106635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man he really likes spamming spawn larva all the time.
< 1321952360 477014 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: In most cases, you only need like 30-40 APM to do everything necessary; but when you're fighting three battles at once and want to macro at the same time, the guy with the higher APM will mismicro less and macro better
< 1321952360 595232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough energy
< 1321952360 796633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough energy
< 1321952361 7379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough energy
< 1321952361 264203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the "not enough energy"s
< 1321952361 380283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough energy
< 1321952439 709000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: those giant tentacle things are actually buildings
< 1321952443 474357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like defensive turrets.
< 1321952453 729543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a strange game kallisti.
< 1321952508 480158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is this meant to be interesting 8 and a half minutes in
< 1321952548 143409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1321952552 604665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321952554 422410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean
< 1321952556 688228 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's when it gets interesting
< 1321952559 259132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1321952560 793284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is around that time.
< 1321952594 180216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the focus early game is to efficienctly use minerals and have a quick build order while planning some kind of opening move.
< 1321952640 245029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is pretty insanely fast.
< 1321952647 439915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when not spamming keys
< 1321952693 517031 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That guy isn't very good compared to the average pro level
< 1321952718 776799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because professional starcraft people aren't actually mortal men.
< 1321952724 826559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: isn't he some kind of strarrararcraft celebrity i seem to remember seeing
< 1321952725 677768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that name
< 1321952730 168508 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes
< 1321952735 37118 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reddit likes him
< 1321952754 657801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oshi
< 1321952759 511824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHITS GOING DOWN DAWG
< 1321952783 203006 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he is a pro, just not a very good one.
< 1321952793 259979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321952830 221091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he's got way too many resources
< 1321952834 617098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be turned into death things.
< 1321952850 316520 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's maxed starting at around 12 mins
< 1321952865 368293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see...
< 1321952880 83013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still he could spawn probably like 50 spore colonies
< 1321952885 292612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever they're called now.
< 1321952891 482793 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321952911 122179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any videos of insanely good koreans being incomprehensible, i have this kind of mythologised mental image of starcraft
< 1321952916 643522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can vaguely see things moving about coherently
< 1321952919 316298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this doesn't really rteg
< 1321952922 852624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: these maps are ujst fucking backgrounds
< 1321952925 227637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those walking guys
< 1321952929 280144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just walked over vacuum
< 1321952940 397048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're probably air units...
< 1321952945 839954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUTT HEY RE WALKING
< 1321952949 710035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which
< 1321952951 875465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Butt: Hey re: walking
< 1321952956 874837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it was at 9 minutes or something
< 1321952959 688321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i paused it for a while
< 1321953000 38596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blue walking things?
< 1321953008 868840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was more impressed by the volume and variety of farts. One of them even smelled exactly what I ate for lunch 10 minutes later which made it a little bit of a surreal experience."
< 1321953010 444791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment in the thread
< 1321953010 885832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not showering is Ruining E-Sports (self.starcraft)
< 1321953031 265649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i think green? complicated game.
< 1321953033 640337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :complicated world.
< 1321953046 638437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh do they move really slow?
< 1321953072 520472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are overlords and they fly very slowly.
< 1321953074 545663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what slow is in this world...
< 1321953075 615046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hover overhead
< 1321953077 315240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they kinda just
< 1321953079 863364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jogged over a little gap
< 1321953087 679873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the green
< 1321953088 467627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swarms
< 1321953090 920266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of joggers
< 1321953094 834960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they float
< 1321953100 758871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: huge congregation at 11:57-11:59
< 1321953103 829402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then
< 1321953104 739791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kaboom
< 1321953123 609687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1321953128 294626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no those are flying things
< 1321953129 152406 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are mutalisks, they fly.
< 1321953134 530145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLY WITH WALKING ANIMATION
< 1321953138 159380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAZY ANIMATORS LAZY!!
< 1321953140 844449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly with flapping wings animation
< 1321953235 901439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're green because he has them selected
< 1321953248 116834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :their sprites looked green too but ok
< 1321953275 638852 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes he's green
< 1321953277 988053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's his player color
< 1321953281 531082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1321953291 315610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :players are color coded all pretty like
< 1321953306 20667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: who's THE BEST at starcraft..........
< 1321953330 272838 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such clearly-defined thing
< 1321953330 318137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: this guy basically just hits and runs with mutalisks the whole game while protoss builds a massive death force.
< 1321953366 631959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: who's...... #1
< 1321953391 92502 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such clearly-defined thing
< 1321953407 110702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: who's richest????
< 1321953410 168131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who has
< 1321953412 650198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most starcraft ladies
< 1321953413 881383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????????
< 1321953415 271082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :work with me here
< 1321953436 463018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough resources ;)
< 1321953436 671530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough resources ;)
< 1321953436 891870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough resources ;)
< 1321953481 119347 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll plug the Swedes and say that Naniwa is among the best right now
< 1321953481 695332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I haven't see any other offensive units besides mutalisks
< 1321953496 507123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some zerglings I think?
< 1321953503 873555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is sc2 much different from sc1
< 1321953504 773427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1321953505 629403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being like
< 1321953506 482762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prettier
< 1321953514 512361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: strategy is pretty drastically different
< 1321953522 899816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still some basic stuff remains
< 1321953528 9026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops they got to his core thing!!!!
< 1321953529 366771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same terminology is pretty much applicable.
< 1321953530 766338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead
< 1321953567 340945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they added some new gameplay mechanics
< 1321953573 339548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example the gold minerals which give you more shit
< 1321953582 711425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the towers which let you see through fog of war a long distance
< 1321953588 955191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for getting a heads up on attacks
< 1321953597 887860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have units that can scale cliffs.
< 1321953632 585069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not previously possible unless they were air units
< 1321953645 263089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump units
< 1321953687 896765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, reapers are terran ground infatnry with jetpacks. they're very mobile, can jump up and down cliffs, and have special bombs they use when attacking buildings
< 1321953691 353856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his password is quite short.
< 1321953694 999041 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're good at raiding enemies bases.
< 1321953700 499233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh i wonder if i could
< 1321953701 994458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the mini image
< 1321953705 453987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find out what keys he pressed
< 1321953750 257984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try
< 1321953764 125982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1321953768 88931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1321954096 7741 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321954101 759833 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-169.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321954191 133994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: something about joke and not being stupid
< 1321954233 159819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in #haskell ? I just had a brain failure, is all
< 1321954241 64922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, i meant the whole
< 1321954246 468587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tutmirleiden, this chat is not, strictly speaking, a part of the tutorial
< 1321954250 261777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : However, it does link to there, which may make it look like it is
< 1321954329 548321 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't mean to imply that he's an idiot. But I do think that the way it's set up may give people the impression that the chat is specific to tryhaskell
< 1321954332 517684 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of finding out keys pressed, this -> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~shmat/courses/cs380s/zhuang.pdf <- was a thing; it's old as anything now, of course; but still, unsupervised and all that.
< 1321954371 660311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this video has both video AND audio
< 1321954376 837484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRACTICALLY DONE
< 1321954381 809864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pentium IV 3.0G"
< 1321954386 837164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w hat
< 1321954514 65954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : thanks mr elliot
< 1321954515 915844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks mr elliot
< 1321954712 870200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr Elliott.
< 1321954718 69489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Elliot
< 1321954953 553768 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drelliot
< 1321954964 292076 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drilliot.
< 1321954997 891831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliot
< 1321955307 576903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :El-Jot, the lesser-known cousin of Superman.
< 1321955386 365718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big money fight has drawn the shoporo
< 1321955386 410956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :od dosens of companies in the entertainment
< 1321955386 469908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :industry as well as attorneys gnnerals on
< 1321955386 515231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :states, who fear the fild shading softwate
< 1321955386 515403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will encourage illegal acyivitt, srem the
< 1321955387 312335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grosth of small arrists and lead to lost
< 1321955389 335011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobs and dimished sales tas revenue.
< 1321956167 284369 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how to make elliott mad
< 1321956184 681815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for:
< 1321956568 825368 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321956596 894669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help nothing appears
< 1321956600 991983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you google for:
< 1321957568 389422 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321957624 234547 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321958526 215763 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1321959702 263673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321960191 706231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1321960209 451022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1321960255 144898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the argument between HP and Oracle?
< 1321960270 292417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, Oracle have accused HP of paying Intel to keep maintaining Itanium
< 1321960273 300138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1321960307 546984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're probably upset about this because they have to keep their Itanium support contracts with HP up
< 1321960322 908791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typical reaction from everyone else is, "well, why /can't/ HP pay Intel for Itanium?"
< 1321960477 526605 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321960508 226163 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321960973 913818 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Lymia
< 1321961532 200678 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is Series 2 any good?
< 1321961550 766040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but not nearly as.
< 1321961562 44499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Music 2000 episode is good; also the computer one as I recall.
< 1321961567 537487 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm.
< 1321961602 295825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's really spotty on YouTube, I just bought the DVD.
< 1321961605 791627 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not on that video website, as far as I could tell.
< 1321961608 793087 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1321961616 126433 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might do that.
< 1321961619 279791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYwPD7ARJ0Y is... the first ten minutes.
< 1321961638 220857 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose supporting a noble endeavor such as this is worth something, after all.
< 1321961707 336443 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NON-USA FROMAT. :-(
< 1321961726 576191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh please, don't they sell universal DVD players or whatnot?
< 1321961732 752180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just rip it or something.
< 1321961736 281873 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose libdvdcss plays it just as well, but still.
< 1321961754 807234 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As I mentioned, I don't even *own* a television. What good would a DVD player do me?
< 1321961777 376734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1321961781 15759 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer to have my MPEG streams delivered to me over TCP/IP over insertkmchere.
< 1321961781 322654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote DVD players
< 1321961788 839426 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :29)  after all, what are DVD players for?
< 1321961811 491762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a surprisingly early quote
< 1321961836 379340 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's any context worth knowing.
< 1321961844 433693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: most DVD players are reasonably easy to hack to play foreign DVDs
< 1321961865 599118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically it's included as an easter egg, because the ability to do that promotes sales of the DVD player, yet they aren't allowed to officially know about it
< 1321961871 43433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321961877 284756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall looking it up on some website once
< 1321961878 594474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's like
< 1321961881 66914 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm, there's no US-valid Series 2 DVD for sale as far as I can tell.
< 1321961882 431902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPEN CLOSE EJECT MENU 3 4 4 EJECT CLOSE
< 1321961891 985933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's because we're racist.
< 1321961924 382502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, it's typically that sort of thing
< 1321961946 782449 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where ais523
< 1321961947 19053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about ais523.
< 1321961969 160403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: but I'm here
< 1321962211 887631 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, I haven't seen _Ghosts_.
< 1321962216 362775 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I had but I hadn't.
< 1321962221 587749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky you!
< 1321962228 226167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like a free new episode was created just for me.
< 1321962229 413506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the most bizarre episode of the first series.
< 1321962282 492277 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pig's milk. Pilk.
< 1321962333 622411 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spider milk, silk?
< 1321962367 542608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321962686 299110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's XKCD is really impressive
< 1321962690 991481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not funny, but it's not meant to be
< 1321962708 635350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those ones where he just got a stupidly large number of statistics and made a drawing out of them
< 1321962710 727859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday's!
< 1321962714 881853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK
< 1321962716 755005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's today's too
< 1321962722 251402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321962903 98825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume people don't actually read xkcd unless they're linked to it
< 1321962913 817450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that "today's xkcd" is a good enough link for most people to follow
< 1321963925 166837 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-188-56.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321963968 347978 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1321964309 50472 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321965129 175606 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321965470 399867 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1321965683 264211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321965924 213186 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321965972 397109 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PART :#esoteric
< 1321966791 864759 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:33:04:  realtime games and networking kind of don't work
< 1321966810 373920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing is, describing AII as a dogfighting game makes it sound too fast-paced.
< 1321966821 956787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :++
< 1321966831 354580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go into that more a bit later.
< 1321966838 616870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really see it working except as a slower-paced thing where you need to plan your course.
< 1321967458 668179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an existing game, or one you're planning to write?
< 1321967502 701114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Latter.
< 1321967520 960368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, are those lowercase ls or capital Is?
< 1321967528 191029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capital.
< 1321967529 21075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AlAIAlAIA
< 1321967532 379460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is, by the look of it
< 1321967540 638210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's short for Asteroids II, which is really going to have to be replaced by a proper name.
< 1321967545 181590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we'll just call it... aii.
< 1321967553 842150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two letters are marginally different in this font, enough to tell them apart with a comparison, but not to be sure about them without one
< 1321967592 909150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a difference of one vertical pixel exactly in length
< 1321968251 461529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK *seriously* what is it with the Runge-Kutta methods.
< 1321968287 580748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything I can find says they're for ODEs, and yet I've only seen them given for first derivatives.
< 1321968308 880875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /queryyyyyyyyyyyy
< 1321968325 373464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the Runge-Kutta methods secret.
< 1321968336 154522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but actually no.
< 1321968337 613330 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm seeing if anyone in the channel knows what's up with that.
< 1321968344 512658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1321968347 158842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't about Runge-Kutta :P
< 1321968509 203825 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1321968934 330857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to release DMT from my pineal gland (assuming that's actually what happens when you dream)
< 1321968951 213342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as my body enters a state of partial paralysis
< 1321968996 420623 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321969035 227068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy kallisti.............
< 1321969047 232744 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to enjoy kallisti!
< 1321969112 707804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321969873 261514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh no, I think I just decided that Crawl-style viewpoint movement is the best
< 1321969918 890126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it's really disorienting
< 1321969927 478936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it depends on the game, I guess
< 1321969938 829488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a horror shooter sort of game, that sort of disorienting viewpoint works great
< 1321969950 973899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but the situation here is a display 20 times as large as the terminals Crawl is usually played in :P
< 1321969962 927785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, I suppose most Crawl players use tiles since it's so popular on Windows...)
< 1321970058 837676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I think the disorientation at that scale can be eliminated simply by making the "camera" lag behind the player a little bit
< 1321970081 152919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., while moving you're off-center in whatever direction you're travelling in, and when you slow down the camera smoothly scrolls into the center
< 1321970140 560653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps
< 1321970229 501159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (the context is AII :P)
< 1321970639 126558 :myndz\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1321971819 466847 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 help
< 1321972364 792473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: why do you keep making random demands of me without context?
< 1321972772 730608 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it turned out that makes sense, although now I'm wrestling with the cover for the PCIe card.
< 1321972817 678598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: While the motherboard collects...
< 1321972818 777237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STATIC?
< 1321972857 952036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: things collect static from moving or having things move across them, not from staying still
< 1321972877 615882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You don't understand, in Scotland static is magic.
< 1321972891 399362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's caused by humidity, flourescent lights, and nearby microwaves.
< 1321972916 540145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm now more or less convinced that the latest batch of spambots work by taking a legitimate page on the subject and running it through a translation service twice
< 1321972956 718813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got reasonably good at reading machine-translated English (it's a /very/ valuable language to know in today's world), and they seem to be writing in that
< 1321973001 776638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm mostly over the depression, too, even though Feather didn't really help
< 1321973142 802506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I'm busy trying to track down a bug in this ICA compiler
< 1321973160 380845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's showing up as an off-by-one, but I'm not convinced that it actually /is/ that; I suspect it's actually an off-by-n where n=1 by chance
< 1321973163 176037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows
< 1321973532 682989 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1321973939 432187 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I have discovered a horror even worse than the PSU cables: the motherboard/case connectors.
< 1321974035 583125 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321974048 814861 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes there's even no indication which way around the leds go.
< 1321974863 728574 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Example plox?
< 1321974870 335587 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of spambots)
< 1321974886 25540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a moment
< 1321974945 134727 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321974954 836400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of us in the website that were having success ended up applying some type of fasting into their diet. A primary though ended up being that going barefoot didn't seem healthy. I actually appeared to be within impression that we had to be feeding on every 3 periods or maybe my own body would definitely come in for you to disease mode.
< 1321974978 991211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^
< 1321975004 470462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't feel like a markov bot; the sentences have an internal logic, but the word choice is completely bizarre
< 1321975033 710627 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321975033 899905 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321975071 498358 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | Wwe had to be feeding on every 3 periods or maybe my own body would definitely come in for you to disease mode. | half-add er? I ardly knew er! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321975093 237749 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got zero day all day but its specific to my paycheck so i ain't selling that. Job is shitty enough.
< 1321975102 876996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Wwe"?
< 1321975109 534206 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quoting my fav discussion bot)
< 1321975128 409378 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | We had to be feeding on every 3 periods or maybe my own body would definitely come in for you to disease mode. | half-add er? I ardly knew er! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321975132 920643 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You didn't see that.
< 1321975142 846900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Chat with us.
< 1321975143 597060 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: biscuit, and the remembrance of that sacrifice the short term for the long term, because they won't be your friends even without it, you can't... such a fine day. an entire barrel can easily be a dealbreaker!
< 1321975155 662524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: T-Rex!
< 1321975156 187640 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: t-rex, i don't know, a cute little skirt, and thus, it no longer represents you. for whatever he or she or it or at better jobs as they come up all the time, and when they do, there's no moment of laughing realization, so you can't ever do a video epitaph for us all will read?
< 1321975173 513023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: coincidence? or is fungot doing some sort of word-copying?
< 1321975173 705691 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that a fad? chinese so that my computer could think about sex, and that would be all it would take to change a lightbulb. the light turned on and on about order versus freedom, the giddy joy, t-rex
< 1321975182 801910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably engineered coincidence
< 1321975228 142358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If it's in any way affected by the input, it's not intentional.
< 1321975247 80910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed; I suspect it was elliott setting up for a likely coincidence
< 1321975256 84688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does fungot do its randomization, btw? some sort of ?-based RNG?
< 1321975256 206356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i, too, will take what i can get a little of that back with them, dromiceiomimus
< 1321975305 72593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's a loop which does "4*, then ?-based 0/1/2/3+" a couple of times, I think maybe 28 bits' worth or something.
< 1321975318 825944 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not quite that many.
< 1321975320 534566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's surprisingly sensible
< 1321975390 75071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one hardcoded [0..15] RNG done with a sequence of a ?-powered 0/4/8/c+ and a 0/1/2/3+, too. It's used for determining when to stop or some-such.
< 1321975414 314438 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I have some iron-rich blood.
< 1321975418 785577 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My blood tastes exactly like rust.
< 1321975448 421049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: blood is kind-of heavy in iron because a transition metal's needed to bind to the oxygen
< 1321975480 89664 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that :P
< 1321975501 527690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, blood scientist
< 1321975514 444291 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better that than just a blood dabbler.
< 1321975519 763692 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321975530 593286 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | We had to be feeding on every 3 periods or maybe my own body would definitely come in for you to disease mode (don't dabble in blood). | half-add er? I ardly knew er! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321975539 526531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321975547 713802 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1321975558 887679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally one must curtail the jocularity of the hoi polloi.
< 1321975562 283995 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1321975576 250364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need that IOCCC notice until it isn't, I think; it's potentially important
< 1321975588 29314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic notice wrt the Wolfram prize thing earned be a moderate amount of money
< 1321975595 745013 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need it there until we no longer need it, I think.
< 1321975598 400648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, about a year's salary, that's quite a bit but not lifechanging)
< 1321975602 135620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, and do we really want to repeat THAT mistake? ;D
< 1321975620 517334 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize he'd learned that in an #esoteric /topic X-D
< 1321975690 684237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: he talked to me about it for about five minutes in the third person
< 1321975700 519709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i was like "oh, is the winner in here?" "yes" "is the winner... you?" "yes"
< 1321975758 615098 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If that's the case, then "the topic notice wrt the Wolfram prize thing [did /not/] [earn him] a moderate amount of money"
< 1321975783 3132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What :P
< 1321975842 346161 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He said that the topic notice earned him money, that implies that he learned about the competition from the topic notice.
< 1321975872 545870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, he did.
< 1321975875 47206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1321975877 261036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was after he won.
< 1321975888 945972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then after I won, I strung people along a bit
< 1321975896 918744 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, I thought you were making a wholly different point X-D
< 1321975925 177171 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.68 PART :#esoteric
< 1321976161 637039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should MAKE MUSIC FOR AII!!!!!!11111111111111111111111
< 1321976167 595639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :111111II1111111II
< 1321976229 611238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AII?
< 1321976245 91428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps you should fix my creative dead end with the DNA Maze level music
< 1321976254 761182 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNA Maze?
< 1321976258 24142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is great, but I've got stuck at the end of the chorus
< 1321976263 867461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how have you never heard of DNA Maze?
< 1321976277 478848 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1321976282 21209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog
< 1321976287 546755 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: indeed, how
< 1321976293 190866 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a regular of this channel, right?
< 1321976304 315673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AII = Asteroids II! EXPANSION IS COMPLETELY UNOFFICIAL.
< 1321976309 523371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it would get us: SUED.
< 1321976319 952278 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Yes, but I'm also a regular of the USA, whose timezones are somewhat distinct from yours.
< 1321976326 629677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, the USA is a person)
< 1321976347 94843 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Asteroids II Extended Edition, aka AIIEE, one presumes.
< 1321976375 389727 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, it's a computer game that I've written
< 1321976383 650857 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the main single player mode around 90% finished
< 1321976386 185396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To give a not entirely unhelpful answer, it's a Newtonian-physics space-based real-timeish physics strategy game with... sort of dogfight elements and ... a lot of orbital transfers ...
< 1321976409 297745 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where "it" = AII, not DNA Maze
< 1321976417 469463 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you confused me for a bit there
< 1321976437 420925 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Newtonian physics are for losers, relativity would make asteroids so much "better"
< 1321976466 10850 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are? Is?
< 1321976475 177758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Basically it's a buncha spaceships vs. a bunch a' other spaceships in 2D space under Newtonian physics with a bunch of masses orbiting each other and shit and the strategy is based around complicated planning, orbital transfers, and physics-warping shit like "make-time-go-slower-inside-this-bubble bubble" :P
< 1321976481 222282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the NEUTRINO GUN.
< 1321976500 699361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK it is seriously a much better idea than it sounds I've just been avoiding the term "dogfight" because Phantom__Hoover quite rightly pointed out it makes things sound way too fast and brute-forcey :P
< 1321976527 533261 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Current state of musicx?
< 1321976557 387835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also it theoretically will have a TOTALLY NEAT vector graphics aesthetic?? Also ragdoll physicsy things?? Gravity?? Black holes?? Network multiplayer??
< 1321976562 969661 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm mostly composing it myself; I have a few level musics done which are nothing special, and a main menu theme which I really like but repeats too quickly
< 1321976568 512137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO YOU LOVE DNA MAZE MORE THAN AII ;__;
< 1321976584 87671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dood, I'm goin' back and forth here.
< 1321976586 833180 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMME BREAK
< 1321976590 501362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you're abandoning us. With hate.
< 1321976590 688931 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it isn't completely vaporware?
< 1321976592 702329 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I totally write game music.
< 1321976601 265401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Neither is AII
< 1321976610 845192 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how many lines of code does it have?
< 1321976621 554916 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it have an indentation discipline all to itself?
< 1321976628 578528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno how long gravity.lisp is, but it's been worked on for about... two years now :P
< 1321976642 618147 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gregor: elliott's actually taken to defensively asking me "is it indented like DNA Maze?" whenever I threaten to send him code)
< 1321976650 337956 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in C, at least)
< 1321976658 789956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically Phantom__Hoover is handling the hard PHYSICS MATH and all three of us are bending it into a game :P
< 1321976670 334674 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :......................
< 1321976678 619935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1321976707 487570 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) {
< 1321976713 660602 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  printf("Hello, world!\n");
< 1321976714 280067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what Gregor's megaellipsising at :P
< 1321976717 70642 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return 0; }
< 1321976720 867068 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais proceeds to paste in his entire program)
< 1321976728 439252 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's a simple example
< 1321976733 748914 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321976743 577165 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, terrible then.
< 1321976744 785992 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation is like Python when seen from the left, and all the braces go at end of line
< 1321976770 339386 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed to annoy all indentation fanboys equaly
< 1321976773 390735 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equally
< 1321976782 365313 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps I should make it use 5-space indents just to keep everyone unhappy
< 1321976796 118037 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 1-space 1-tab (in that order) would do that job even better, I guess
< 1321976806 213938 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 3-space 1-tab in that order
< 1321976809 589321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout using vertical tabs, and just making sure that your editor displays them as tabs.
< 1321976829 352861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have I mentioned that DNA Maze's indentation style also replaces sequences of 8 spaces with tabs?
< 1321976832 987374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite using a 2-space indentation?
< 1321976840 20724 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, that
< 1321976841 524047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now ais523\unfoog will start the Tab Idiocy again.
< 1321976850 122428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brace yourselves, semicolon yourselves.
< 1321976853 740190 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we've changed from Netbeans to Eclipse in the labs down here
< 1321976870 941872 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Eclipse is producing code with mixed tabs and spaces, with tab != 8
< 1321976877 417123 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's basically impossible to mark as a result
< 1321976951 615277 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK, I'm used to reading badly-indented code, so it's just /annoying/ to mark
< 1321977037 454640 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just run everything through indent -kr :P
< 1321977086 380546 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh right, I mean to do that on my IOCCC submission
< 1321977106 666054 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :astyle makes such a beautiful mess of it (some lines end up indented so far that they wrap the entire screen in my terminal, even if I maximise it)
< 1321977253 251140 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the results of running indent on it are arguably better than the original, though, although still far from optimal
< 1321977258 34570 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Feel like giving us clues about your IOCCC submission? :P
< 1321977267 820600 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've told you what it does already
< 1321977275 119307 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a single-transferable-vote counter that stores data using stack smashing
< 1321977394 621897 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how easy is it to use Emacs as a batch reindenter?
< 1321978329 378399 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :immoral
< 1321978334 748844 :immoral!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321979119 921526 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PART #esoteric :"Hug~♪"
< 1321979298 509736 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah
< 1321979589 632864 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321979765 21471 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1321979827 316253 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321979863 519470 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host
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< 1321980193 57324 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321980793 149321 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, OK now the computer is not actually doing anything when plugged in and the power button is pressed.
< 1321980806 218349 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, literally nothing happens.
< 1321980815 259617 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: is the power supply switched on?
< 1321980818 460609 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321980825 825178 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's switched on at the plug, too.
< 1321980830 67784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It died of static.
< 1321980830 739413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP.
< 1321980832 201480 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the power button connected?
< 1321980848 498137 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried putting the power button wires in both orientations.
< 1321980885 536291 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in that case ask someone who's actually assembled a computer (i.e. not me)
< 1321980902 898670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mobo has a test button and led on it. IIRC for testing that the memory modules work, but obviously you could use it to check that power + memory modules work
< 1321980910 663744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe your mobo has something similar?
< 1321980923 79710 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, I have a completely fucking useless paperweight and I'm getting pinballed around.
< 1321980925 644125 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: is the processor hot?
< 1321980932 663142 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does it smell of burnt silicon?
< 1321980934 757700 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1321980940 659026 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally nothing at all happens.
< 1321980943 449245 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can figure out if the processor is hot by touching it
< 1321980948 968649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: do you have a multimeter?
< 1321980955 971108 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course I don't!
< 1321980959 473302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1321980972 531108 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the problem's probably with the power supply or the power button if the power supply fan doesn't spin up
< 1321980975 975008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Phantom__Hoover: is the processor hot?   also, does it smell of burnt silicon? [...]  you can figure out if the processor is hot by touching it
< 1321980978 878656 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :733)  Phantom__Hoover: is the processor hot?   also, does it smell of burnt silicon? [...]  you can figure out if the processor is hot by touching it
< 1321980991 453447 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who are you poking fun at there?
< 1321980991 776844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that funny at all?
< 1321980999 483394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: nobody
< 1321981005 470160 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the "I don't know" was the funny bit there
< 1321981020 382541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1321981024 562694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the first two lines are amusingly specific in their prognostication, and the third is amusing in its obviousness
< 1321981041 921627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the funny line is really the " I don't know."
< 1321981059 893950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disagrees, and doesn't think you'd be saying that if ais523\unfoog hadn't said it.
< 1321981067 796415 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I turn on the cable at the socket, turn on the PSU, press the power cable, and... nothing.
< 1321981068 127013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transition to the third line is ruined by adding that one.
< 1321981083 121480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did notice it was a bit weird in the original context
< 1321981087 974621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You press the button, not the cable. hth
< 1321981090 767641 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: how do you press a cable anyway?
< 1321981100 26277 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Button, dammit.
< 1321981100 637495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks this will calm down Phantom__Hoover immeasurably.
< 1321981112 390238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: anyway you should really get a multimeter tomorrow or such. They are cheap really. Don't know exact prices, but I seen ones below 100 SEK. They should be good enough for just checking if you have a voltage where you should in the PSU connector
< 1321981121 510258 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd have added it as  PH: is the processor hot? [...]  I don't know  you can figure out if the processor is hot by touching it
< 1321981127 353318 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the abbreviations expanded
< 1321981131 2617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: that is, standby power
< 1321981131 750716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, tempting
< 1321981134 582404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'll review it tomorrow
< 1321981137 504264 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I meant to touch it with the cooler in the way?
< 1321981140 322201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stamp
< 1321981148 517259 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I once bought two multimeters for £5
< 1321981157 22001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: don't know what that is in SEK
< 1321981164 343293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Touch the cooler?
< 1321981166 324648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be, y'know, hot.
< 1321981168 391665 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: well, you'd have to open the case, which is a sensible thing to do anyway when diagnosing computer problems
< 1321981173 60231 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that's a good point
< 1321981183 831463 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of a cooler is to be at the same temperature as the processor
< 1321981184 349543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Anyway, if the PSU fan doesn't go on, like ais523\unfoog said, it won't be a CPU problem.
< 1321981199 259676 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the PSU has a fan, which is likely but not guaranteed
< 1321981202 18051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: So... doublecheck everything from the power button to the socket to the PSU?
< 1321981204 671939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is then either a mobo problem or PSU problem
< 1321981207 329595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It does.
< 1321981207 375460 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PSU does, in fact, have a PSU.
< 1321981212 455406 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a fan.
< 1321981217 320910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you need a really low power PSU to find one without a fan
< 1321981218 381588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My PSU doesn't have a PSU.
< 1321981221 196927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: like a laptop one
< 1321981221 305961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not true.
< 1321981230 322731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There are 350W, 400W PSUs without fans.
< 1321981240 65295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just very rare.
< 1321981253 539833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I count <400W as really low power for a desktop
< 1321981256 195070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Zalman TNN thing is 420W, but it's part of the heatpipe system so it doesn't really count.
< 1321981257 841021 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PSU fan is pretty much the one thing that is almost certainly going to be correctly wired to the PSU
< 1321981259 252265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You said "like a laptop one".
< 1321981259 553814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have 750 W
< 1321981271 945966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 750W is over the top for just about everything.
< 1321981274 393185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, those are generally below 100 W. So they qualify
< 1321981284 329900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (A -> B) =/= (B -> A)
< 1321981286 506270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know people who had rigs that needed more than 750 W to run
< 1321981306 481226 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does -> mean there? (I'm assuming =/= means ≠)
< 1321981311 780878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway it gives some room to expand in. 80+ gold certified, so it is reasonably efficient even at non-max load
< 1321981315 624076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Logical implication.
< 1321981320 518306 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1321981323 141103 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1321981339 734034 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, 1000W is quite small for an electric heater
< 1321981360 339850 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and far too small for an electric oven
< 1321981368 348457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I have never seen a PSU intended for a full sized desktop (mid tower or larger) that didn't have a fan
< 1321981368 747922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electric oven computer.
< 1321981372 588405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it might happen
< 1321981375 377391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just never seen it
< 1321981390 341333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're just not popular, that's all.
< 1321981397 731857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321981411 571229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... chances are, unless you use a laptop, your PSU has a fan
< 1321981411 745068 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know why they aren't popular? I assume they would be for the same reason as, say, flatscreens
< 1321981426 229091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: You need good cooling on the rest of your system, case fans and the like.
< 1321981431 135464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: And they don't really scale to higher powers.
< 1321981435 629742 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1321981436 620226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: what? Are you suggesting flat monitors are not popular ?
< 1321981445 224552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you illiterate?
< 1321981447 468186 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very helpful guys thanks.
< 1321981454 494954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I gave you advice; take it.
< 1321981460 928971 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what?
< 1321981462 410680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I anti-missed a "not"
< 1321981468 937744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover: So... doublecheck everything from the power button to the socket to the PSU?
< 1321981478 277170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It's more productive than complaining that nobody's helping you on IRC...
< 1321981502 520186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: probably the issue is with the PSU. Since the PSU fan didn't turn on. It might be with the mobo, or the button in theory as well.
< 1321981514 201971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be something connected incorrectly
< 1321981539 944847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: and I assume you set the PSU for the right voltage, if it had such a switch? Mine autodetect between UK and US voltages
< 1321981540 795388 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: an "n't"? I can't see anywhere to put a "not" to make that sentence not sound completely unlike me and still have the desired meaning
< 1321981549 233762 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *EU and US voltages?
< 1321981557 629492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah
< 1321981558 669905 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has a switch like that.
< 1321981562 229488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321981590 479787 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old UK standard of 240 isn't really used much any more, most devices marketed for Europe have a 225-245 voltage range to cover both UK 240 and standard 230
< 1321981596 999033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: in fact I think it supports from 90 V to 260 V or some such. Which is kind of larger than required
< 1321981609 783599 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: most PSUs do, unless they're specifically advertised not to
< 1321981617 825164 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or laptop PSUs
< 1321981623 371234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Sweden used to have 220 V before we switched to 230 V
< 1321981632 739273 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one on the desktop here at work, the switch is a slidy piece of metal the same colour as the case
< 1321981640 347680 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has ~230V engraved on it
< 1321981650 650414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same colour eh, the ones I seen were usually red
< 1321981712 665855 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321981716 484893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you put it at 110 V and you used it on 230 V, then chances are your PSU is not alive anymore (hopefully just a fuse). Probably nothing else broke.
< 1321982066 127200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: anyway, even if the CPU was dead your PSU would probably turn on its fan.
< 1321982074 946890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for a short period of time
< 1321982085 11381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1321982235 229633 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, found the problem.
< 1321982251 145746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: What was it.
< 1321982253 762693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it the polarity flow.
< 1321982257 753552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were the neutrinos going too fast.
< 1321982258 927626 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power on switch has a second connection in the front of the case which is disconnected and isn't mentioned in the manual at all.
< 1321982267 357697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the secret connection.
< 1321982286 267697 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now* I've graduated to the monitor showing no signs of life whatsoever.
< 1321982334 53471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Did you plug it in.
< 1321982336 421956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monitors need power too.
< 1321982345 695647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, all my advice will be this irritating.)
< 1321982386 891621 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I checked for any additional power buttons; there were none.
< 1321982405 650131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Now* I've graduated to the monitor showing no signs of life whatsoever. <-- are you using the on board video (if that exists)?
< 1321982408 713305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: The monitor has a power button.
< 1321982414 526713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is no on-board video.
< 1321982418 114950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1321982425 92587 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plugged it into the graphics card's DVI output (the only video output on the entire computer) using an adaptor provided by the graphics card.
< 1321982425 468937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, getting the monitor to turn on seems more important.
< 1321982430 729121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Doesn't matter, get it turned on first.
< 1321982438 372575 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how, there's no button.
< 1321982438 817011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can work on the computer getting its images there.
< 1321982439 685221 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywhere.
< 1321982440 932708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: doesn't the graphics card have other ports?
< 1321982443 476188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Yes there is; or a switch.
< 1321982458 218038 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it has 2 DVI and a mini HDMI; the monitor has only VGA and DVI.
< 1321982460 844860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: they might hide it quite well for aesthetics
< 1321982470 839769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: use DVI only if possible
< 1321982472 311137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: The "only video output" apart from an HDMI one.
< 1321982475 306458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He has a VGA cable.
< 1321982484 49746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already told him to correct this, so don't bother.
< 1321982485 444377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: otherwise there are two types of DVI: Try the other DVI port
< 1321982492 503128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR GOD'S SAKE
< 1321982493 159667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all DVI ports provide analogue as well
< 1321982494 587908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NONE OF THIS WILL HELP
< 1321982496 177178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNTIL Phantom__Hoover
< 1321982496 852890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURNS
< 1321982497 264521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE
< 1321982497 982152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONITOR
< 1321982498 341092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON
< 1321982499 905563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321982536 648558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: well I can tell you for certain there is a power button on the monitor. Look in the manual for it. Also check under the front edge
< 1321982542 654652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they like to hide the buttons
< 1321982710 491555 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321982722 708892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: found it yet?
< 1321982750 374096 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK it was a touch button for some inexplicable thing?
< 1321982757 92207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: hah that happens
< 1321982764 559222 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't get a signal, of course.
< 1321982773 108166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: check the other reasons above
< 1321982780 33552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all DVI ports provide analogue
< 1321982801 690139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues debating whether to expediate new computer purchasing to smooth AII development or whether to stay on this machine to ensure better compatibility.
< 1321982817 996080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: you want the connector on the computer to be DVI-I or DVI-A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DVI_Connector_Types.svg
< 1321982846 522981 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321982860 824641 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely one of those.
< 1321982874 733054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: is the other one that as well? In that case try to switch
< 1321982880 577297 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miffed somewhat at lack of HDMI port on monitor.
< 1321982895 443675 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might work OK
< 1321982896 15621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one DVI-I and one DVI-D, one DP and one HDMI iirc
< 1321982898 351048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: HDMI is irrelevant.
< 1321982902 420507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need a DVI cable.
< 1321983017 518778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait seems I have 5 connectors according to xrandr output
< 1321983019 928269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, whatever
< 1321983080 427157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: anyway, try the monitor connected to your laptop. Just in case. You will of course need to enable the extra monitor in the screen prefs
< 1321983087 475055 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing continues to happen.
< 1321983105 507654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: is the monitor saying "no signal" or such when you unplug the cable?
< 1321983111 933014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just black screen when plugged in?
< 1321983120 923449 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing at a time please.
< 1321983126 758463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Skip the laptop thing.
< 1321983134 279658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waste of time esp. with differing ports.
< 1321983138 340260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, probably not the monitor at fault
< 1321983222 577565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Also, check the connection of the case to the video card again.
< 1321983238 994357 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the card fan definitely starts, for one thing.
< 1321983245 211221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say motherboard.
< 1321983246 645991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said case.
< 1321983255 103092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also check the connection to the monitor, ofc.
< 1321983264 575118 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PSU's connection is fine too.
< 1321983284 142306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not in question.
< 1321983296 623934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer works, the monitor works, the two just don't work together.
< 1321983298 85291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: oh wait, what about power cables to the GPU?
< 1321983301 669179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are connected right?
< 1321983306 415628 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're fine too.
< 1321983308 138984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need two of them at once
< 1321983314 8261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because hell why not
< 1321983341 409310 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321983343 460242 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of them are connected.
< 1321983345 222674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: point is, does the monitor even say "no signal" or such when unplugged. If yes and it doesn't do that when connected to the computer then the GPU is probably okay.
< 1321983389 161062 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The monitor says "going into power saving mode" and goes into standby.
< 1321983404 173728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: when unplugged? Or when connected to the computer?
< 1321983419 840901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is basically if it behaves *differently* when unplugged and connected to the computer.
< 1321983422 917134 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When connected.
< 1321983431 292876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: and when unplugged?
< 1321983447 129768 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stays on and says "No VGA Cable"
< 1321983450 296990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321983454 848751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is promising
< 1321983463 298115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: did you reboot the computer after connecting the monitor?
< 1321983477 916170 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started it with the monitor connected, yes.
< 1321983482 145506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it might think nothing is connected. I'm not convinced there is plug-and-play during bios)
< 1321983512 880129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: tried that on both DVI ports?
< 1321983522 247448 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. I can try again.
< 1321983528 538835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can't hurt to check
< 1321983529 752514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Really check the connection in the monitor.
< 1321983534 288817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA is really tough to get in.
< 1321983535 69583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that too
< 1321983539 126712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it?
< 1321983545 240124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1321983548 350310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as long as you secure the screws there won't be a problem
< 1321983553 651815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although SCART takes the cake.
< 1321983557 603344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1321983558 392315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCART is physically impossible to plug in.
< 1321983567 119378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCART is easy to get in, just never *stays* in
< 1321983570 389615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321983580 592259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, SCART is 70s technology.
< 1321983584 378893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not surprised.
< 1321983586 372702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, heh
< 1321983593 133407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SCART connector first appeared on television sets in 1977. It became compulsory on all new television sets sold in France starting from January 1980.[2][3]
< 1321983595 221163 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have, attached to my school desktop right now, an official Apple-branded DVI-to-DVI adapter.
< 1321983607 360647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway vga is kind of easy to know if you got in. If you managed to fasten the screws then it is in
< 1321983610 41850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not DVI-to-MiniDVI or whatever?
< 1321983613 352125 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope.
< 1321983618 380085 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not even DVI-to-DVI-D or something.
< 1321983618 434000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1321983625 396389 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is a $30 patch cable.
< 1321983632 467097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's actually a 0m-1m adapter :P
< 1321983634 695643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it has a cable.
< 1321983635 557363 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's a $30 DVI cable that's really really short.
< 1321983640 195803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wait a second, what is Apple DVI?
< 1321983641 96318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's just two identical ends right next to each other than that's amazing.
< 1321983649 241119 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... ... X_X
< 1321983655 304324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Vorpal amazing?
< 1321983657 671393 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it has about an inch of cable.
< 1321983670 206226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 0"-to-1" adapter!
< 1321983676 493328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ADAPTS SPACE.
< 1321983677 389511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the parsing: (Apple-branded DVI)-to-(DVI)?
< 1321983677 822336 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :P
< 1321983685 677505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Obviously not.
< 1321983688 722538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean Apple-branded (DVI-to-DVI)
< 1321983694 306333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it wasn't obvious to me
< 1321983697 293945 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You rarely parenthesize in the middle of hyphenated phrases X_X
< 1321983699 381262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because you're dumb.
< 1321983703 250016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they have DVI-to-DVI?
< 1321983711 430684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would Gregor say that if it wasn't interesting
< 1321983716 546040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say, for being DVI-to-DVI
< 1321983719 378799 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I'm back.
< 1321983719 477947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is unusual
< 1321983723 211556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And therefore humorous
< 1321983724 628695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um
< 1321983726 131418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humourous
< 1321983726 457087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1321983727 745257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seppuku
< 1321983738 518026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Has it blown up yet.
< 1321983822 639314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen a good computer case (wrt putting stuff in it easily) since that old dell case I have
< 1321983842 464450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has some hinges at the front
< 1321983847 288883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really easy to access anything inside
< 1321983880 882053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with very nice cable routing too
< 1321983918 937121 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK still a distinct lack of anything at all happening.
< 1321983936 315046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Open a menu on the monitor.
< 1321983938 40686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: do you have a pc speaker connected?
< 1321983939 840090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't whine, find the button/touch thing.
< 1321983949 807429 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already done that.
< 1321983954 265554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the computer beep when booting?
< 1321983959 690502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, pc speakers are onboard.
< 1321983970 25724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not always
< 1321983972 700749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Checked monitor connection? Checked adapter connection?
< 1321983976 700752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least they didn't use to be
< 1321983982 383086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Startin' to think you should just buy an HDMI cable, man
< 1321983984 66248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1321983985 946892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Startin' to think you should just buy a DVI cable, man
< 1321983986 437401 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no and yes.
< 1321983992 388701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes the worst Frfuuruuduan slips.
< 1321983995 365554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Well, go do it then.
< 1321984006 618206 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revise to yes and yes.
< 1321984037 164834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: OK, observe my official recommendation:
< 1321984043 710469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Pat yourself on the back for an assembly well done;
< 1321984045 951870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Buy a DVI cable.
< 1321984049 220633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically the VGA port on the monitor might be dead. It might be worth checking against your laptop if it has a VGA (or even better, DVI) connector
< 1321984059 544321 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that, actually; it worked fine.
< 1321984067 306868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321984075 189601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Phantom__Hoover's DVI ports just don't do analogue.
< 1321984094 549941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: elliott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DVI_Connector_Types.svg <-- he said it was DVI-I iirc?
< 1321984102 204844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. I don't believe him.
< 1321984124 992953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well something might be fried. I wouldn't exclude the posibility
< 1321984129 768899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibility*
< 1321984153 825060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the CPU or RAM in that case.
< 1321984167 754501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Does it beep when it starts up.
< 1321984197 268871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mine doesn't beep when booting. It will however beep using the onboard Intel HD Audio if required.
< 1321984199 174889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of weird
< 1321984210 362650 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there are speakers?
< 1321984220 733246 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Why would Gregor say that if it wasn't interesting"
< 1321984225 592194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immortalized forever.
< 1321984228 457532 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right there in the log.
< 1321984233 510667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1321984254 86506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It's a PC speaker.
< 1321984259 572204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes an annoying beep whether you have speakers or not.
< 1321984364 303912 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might have been
< 1321984386 320240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Dude.
< 1321984388 990879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes three seconds to check.
< 1321984473 649112 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't.
< 1321984514 751834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh.
< 1321984524 619232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably fine.
< 1321984529 659790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess MODERN MOBOS don't do the beeping thing any more.
< 1321984545 881449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Yeah, just buy a DVI cable.
< 1321984592 541256 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BtW, I can confirm that the graphics card's DVI cables are DVI-I and the monitor's unused DVI port is DVI-D.
< 1321984728 352195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You've gotta admire Phantom__Hoover's dedication to getting this VAX to run.
< 1321984739 63925 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are there like 20 different kinds of DVI cable?
< 1321984744 234079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: No, there's one.
< 1321984750 63434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Buy the cheapest.
< 1321984771 797176 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are 55 kinds of port?
< 1321984775 75774 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*5
< 1321984780 263911 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr Green always embrace you.
< 1321984792 747489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal will explain to Phantom__Hoover how ports are designed.
< 1321984818 81900 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They oh wait they are intercompatible.
< 1321984841 187281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: So how loud are the fans.
< 1321984866 546873 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all that loud, although I haven't yet run it for more than 30 seconds or so.
< 1321984882 908427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover demonstrates Scottish hardness in the face of 99 dBa.
< 1321984914 546410 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're only a little louder than bagpipes.
< 1321985016 770007 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321985258 900088 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD for Amiga: INSTALLING
< 1321985263 758730 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL TEST M68K
< 1321985265 894525 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILLLLLLL
< 1321985926 204885 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1321986564 531501 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1321987172 55129 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can I get malbolge?
< 1321987188 866606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a malbolge interpreter?
< 1321987195 93257 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my programming teacher gave me a derp problem, and said use ANY language
< 1321987198 450451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge#External_resources
< 1321987208 283105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new2net: good luck writing a malbolge program...
< 1321987215 972165 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno if Malbolge is a good selection for "any" :P
< 1321987218 306821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cryptographic skill is recommended
< 1321987247 317363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I killed a random mill owner. It wasn't my fault! I just went into his house and picked his pocket to get some practice at doing it, but he caught me and I ran. He chased me out into the wilderness, at which point I got bored of running, figured we were in the middle of a snowy forest in the middle of the night, and stabbed him through the heart. Then I dumped his body in a river. OK, I guess it total
< 1321987247 415301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ly was my fault."
< 1321987275 313898 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also an apt description of Malbolge.
< 1321987412 63998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lately I've taken to reanimating the bodies of people who piss me off, then killing them again so they burn up to a pile of ash. Hideous otherwordly punishment for my enemies, and it keeps the roads clear!"
< 1321987419 654783 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is named after Malebolge, the eighth level of hell.
< 1321987473 535770 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought there were only 7
< 1321987513 164311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new2net: They created another one for people who make brainfuck derivatives.
< 1321987522 22179 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In reality there are zero, in the Divine Comedy there are nine.
< 1321987529 50140 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++<<<-]>>>.<+.>+++++++++.<<.+++>>---------.-<.>+++++++.---
< 1321987552 349998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++<<<-]>>>.<+.>+++++++++.<<.+++>>---------.-<.>+++++++.---
< 1321987553 75793 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :new2net
< 1321987558 174656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen old2net
< 1321987560 861213 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why would the graphics card come packaged with a VGA to DVI adapter if it didn't work?
< 1321987563 163845 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​78 ++++++++++[>+>+++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++<<<<-]>>+.---.>.>.<<++.>+.<++++++.<. [774]
< 1321987570 194695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Satanism?
< 1321987594 482050 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods
< 1321987599 294964 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your txtgen doesn't leave only prime numbers in each byte
< 1321987605 122365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my" txtgen :P
< 1321987658 760729 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge_txtgen new2net
< 1321987679 819935 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shame in taking the easy road where available...
< 1321987815 254715 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321988001 574467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1321988006 26499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: any luck?
< 1321988018 374458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, why would the graphics card come packaged with a VGA to DVI adapter if it didn't work? <-- it wouldn't
< 1321988025 406279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless something is broken
< 1321988034 114407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the adapter or whatever
< 1321988081 169049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : BtW, I can confirm that the graphics card's DVI cables are DVI-I and the monitor's unused DVI port is DVI-D. <-- that combo should work just fine, because DVI-I is DVI-A+DVI-D basically
< 1321988103 95744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal will explain to Phantom__Hoover how ports are designed. <-- I only know how the FreeBSD ports work :P
< 1321988112 975480 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greatest thing about the BSDs is that every time you mount their native filesystem you get to scream "MOUNT FOR FUCK'S SAKE" (<-- joke noöne will get)
< 1321988134 663503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover demonstrates Scottish hardness in the face of 99 dBa. <-- you mean Welsh
< 1321988166 839415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I *do* have access to a TV with an HDMI input.
< 1321988173 779923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides bagpipes kind of sound nice. Probably not in the long run though.
< 1321988182 850670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321988205 448746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know about UFS mounting under linux.
< 1321988212 115029 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does EgoBot interpret Malbolge?
< 1321988213 268864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: never tried it, but I know it is kind of bad
< 1321988219 849564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge
< 1321988224 38575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe?
< 1321988227 192329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell
< 1321988238 489981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new2net: I don't think so, but I'm not sure
< 1321988240 531216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1321988240 742144 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1321988248 671259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does, it seems
< 1321988273 243635 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^malbolge  ('&%:9]!~}|z2Vxwv-,POqponl$Hjig%eB@@>}=
< 1321988302 225222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new2net: ! not ^
< 1321988302 559281 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NOT - THE - JOKE
< 1321988320 251314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i got it
< 1321988324 371491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh mount.ffs, but no one uses ffs any more
< 1321988332 901729 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge ('&%:9]!~}|z2Vxwv-,POqponl$Hjig%eB@@>}=
< 1321988333 305701 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World!
< 1321988342 592021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow the spambots have been busy recently
< 1321988342 663363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ufs aka ffsv2
< 1321988359 463511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, but the tools are mount.ufs iirc
< 1321988367 705234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tool is*
< 1321988381 326442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so Gregor's joke doesn't work for them
< 1321988393 49606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because the joke was that the /tool/ is mount.ffs
< 1321988428 383325 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"about the BSDs"
< 1321988432 433598 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only called UFS on Linux.
< 1321988436 689715 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies inside.
< 1321988439 494362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no
< 1321988439 644404 :new2net!~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1321988449 259865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: notice UFS and UFS2 in http://www.freebsd.org/projects/bigdisk/index.html
< 1321988453 529628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as an example
< 1321988454 456414 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just watched NetBSD 5.1 mount_ffs
< 1321988456 647556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :first hit on ddg for me
< 1321988470 234731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well netbsd is like 10 years out of date except on toasters
< 1321988470 298432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321988480 448818 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Amiga: Mostly like a toaster.
< 1321988481 823626 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1321988486 645194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: right
< 1321988493 234925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mainly used freebsd and some openbsd
< 1321988510 215512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got data in an Excel spreadsheet, what's the best way to use it in Haskell?
< 1321988513 522106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think freebsd is the largest *bsd
< 1321988519 298017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbsd "more modern than netbsd" "lol"
< 1321988523 546505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember
< 1321988524 410240 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mainly use Linux, because everything I want to run can either run Linux (in which case I don't want BSD), or the only free OS it can run is NetBSD :P
< 1321988524 708891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: export to csv?
< 1321988542 357419 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what?
< 1321988542 502339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: heh
< 1321988555 504075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: parsec would work
< 1321988559 134909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be an easier way
< 1321988562 976672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: search hackage for csv library
< 1321988568 894110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he said excel
< 1321988578 237731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant parsec for the csv data
< 1321988578 889833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1321988596 320415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, trying this again with an HDMI cable.
< 1321988598 397955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: or you could use the FFI for accessing MS Office integration stuff
< 1321988606 340479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: doubtful it will help, but worth a try
< 1321988615 420471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: remember to unplug the other monitor
< 1321988618 79023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Vorpal's advice is useless.
< 1321988628 14843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that stuff about FFI was a joke
< 1321988629 843842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1321988768 977721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :[download]  16.7% of 37.55M at  175.13k/s ETA 03:02 <-- the video is 2 minutes. What a failure.
< 1321988769 430409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didn't work either.
< 1321988787 947259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well then I guess one of the CPU, RAM or GPU are broken
< 1321988788 163861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something wrong with the card, then?
< 1321988794 557573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1321988801 14263 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's that about you getting download speeds that Americans can only dream of?
< 1321988803 344564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mobo
< 1321988815 412884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: come on from a good mirror I can get 800 kbps down
< 1321988835 332180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: youtube: usually 500 kpbs
< 1321988848 474040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that was youtube-dl)
< 1321989023 515875 :derrik_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321989035 475737 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG NetBSD extraction SO SLOW
< 1321989063 122493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what is the bottle neck?
< 1321989073 779909 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1321989080 931757 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Everything :P
< 1321989089 129248 :derrik_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321989229 800250 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321989318 692863 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321989327 881222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :[download]  20.3% of 210.35M at  163.04k/s ETA 17:32 <-- come on, for a 14 minute video
< 1321989358 769974 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit
< 1321989438 655312 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321989817 495868 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :coblumpkin
< 1321989890 464001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hate so pure and… blumpkin seeds?
< 1321989927 894811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1321990070 45944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's a new humble bundle, btw
< 1321990084 236392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know, they advertise at me incessantly
< 1321990110 55255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these bundles come out much faster than I expected; and as a result, they're getting less of my custom than maybe they'd want
< 1321990124 210542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inability to buy them after the period ends doesn't help either
< 1321990131 742863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even at a mark-up
< 1321990144 97126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can.
< 1321990146 568848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a really big markup.
< 1321990168 288168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have you even ever played Uplink?
< 1321990169 257930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean, without bribing the relevant people
< 1321990172 510449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I haven't
< 1321990177 515500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of it, but not much about it
< 1321990183 107629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good.
< 1321990187 282881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really good.
< 1321990188 987406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, I mean, without bribing the relevant people
< 1321990192 684120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what genre it is
< 1321990193 682355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was referring to simply being each game
< 1321990198 986367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1321990212 184143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uplink is a fully-featured implementation of the ridiculous OSes used for hacking in films and TV shows
< 1321990216 115377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus plot
< 1321990226 124332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it even includes an IRC client, although it was removed in a patch)
< 1321990241 905613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's really well done -- you can bring down systems by erasing their OS files with the command line
< 1321990248 950446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they never come back up even if you restart the game with another player account
< 1321990263 592085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott...
< 1321990276 395501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you can set the state of the game back to freshly-installed so you can do it again?
< 1321990281 177934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crashed systems come back up eventually, and systems aren't persistent.
< 1321990288 637202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not if you rm -r /.
< 1321990296 250534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, sure, but most systems aren't terribly interesting :P
< 1321990300 240656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that command doesn't actually /work/
< 1321990303 9002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life
< 1321990305 280581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1321990310 973809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not rm -r /, it's del / or something :P
< 1321990311 913734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still come back up.
< 1321990312 994415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you forkbomb them?
< 1321990314 719563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a few months.
< 1321990318 128431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, they never came back for me, but OK.
< 1321990326 749335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The shell isn't *that* good.
< 1321990329 801128 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's cd usr; delete; cd sys; delete.
< 1321990332 163797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1321990351 479396 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been extracting ./rescue/[ for multiple minutes now >_>
< 1321990364 324313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why is there a file called [?
< 1321990373 810265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a symlink to test(1)?
< 1321990376 616261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even more insane if it isn't)
< 1321990425 250226 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which [
< 1321990427 931177 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/[
< 1321990437 734527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file /usr/bin/[
< 1321990438 82214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ has been a conventional part of UNIX for years.
< 1321990439 756604 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/[: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped
< 1321990450 719870 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test and [ are slightly (very slightly) distinct.
< 1321990460 880205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussing the same bug report with two different forks of the same project simultaneously
< 1321990462 459743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes, but I wouldn't have expected to see it in ./rescue
< 1321990466 108626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~a~w~k~w~a~r~d~
< 1321990470 673197 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair 'nuff :)
< 1321990470 968496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are they test and [?
< 1321990473 876575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1321990479 867909 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321990496 770534 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFF it's still extracting rescue/[
< 1321990507 127315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's infinitely large?
< 1321990517 191129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suspect it's hung on the filename or something :P
< 1321990614 598664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I conclude that the only way this can end up non-awkward is if i convince the two projects to merge
< 1321990641 433096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the /original/ have the bug? and is it dead?
< 1321990649 278187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original is dead
< 1321990696 245510 :coblumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1321990812 675330 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: reconnect
< 1321990827 988837 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321991143 591677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, finally got past it.
< 1321991152 331162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The biggest file.
< 1321991768 740928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321991818 68185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321992023 989293 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321992080 928127 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321992272 737728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321992426 841840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, I just remembered, kerio is also an ssh fanboy
< 1321992438 65983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321992443 635640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise that was possible
< 1321992448 241853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently so
< 1321992480 910736 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who ISN'T an SSH fanboy.
< 1321992482 941692 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSH rules.
< 1321992485 813170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can do worse than SSH
< 1321992495 987658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but how
< 1321992501 646744 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsh
< 1321992502 828192 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet
< 1321992515 142881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, I have a message for you: kerio said: i just realized that rsync and pretty much every DVCS uses ssh - why can't acehack-tiles and/or jettyplay do the same?
< 1321992525 102361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: ssh is awesome and you should use it!
< 1321992532 879021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:05]  kerio: the use of ssh by git and by rsync is one of the things that made them much harder to port to Windows
< 1321992534 268542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:06]  and also made them much more awesome
< 1321992557 820190 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is for losers anyway.
< 1321992560 125017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's amazing how quickly i have come to hate kerio
< 1321992565 335521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321992584 507753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually takes at least ten more lines than i've seen
< 1321992586 182954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there you go, ssh fanboyism in action
< 1321992634 503981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should make jettyplay use rsh+perl
< 1321992661 519964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, jettyplay connects to public NetHack servers to watch, normally via telnet
< 1321992673 246662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kerio removed telnet support from acehack.eu, because ssh was so superior
< 1321992677 542079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't work on AEU at the moment
< 1321992707 162058 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321992771 946739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what exactly does ssh give for anonymous connections?
< 1321992779 419319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :authentication overhead, I think, plus compression
< 1321992793 752322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sending the password in plaintext
< 1321992797 106361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and encryption I guess :P
< 1321992804 73500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: vital nethack passwords
< 1321992811 86631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerio did find a really huge security bug in dgamelaunch, and actually got root on someone else's server through it
< 1321992841 554304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's, um, a really immature way to respond to remote holes?
< 1321992857 948920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he didn't do anything destructive with it but edit the homepage and close the hole behind him
< 1321992867 563754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds destructive to me :P
< 1321992892 19078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but the server admin seemed not to mind
< 1321993425 812622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321993460 757045 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321993460 802365 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1321993460 802562 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321993477 547519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!
< 1321993477 746519 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: crazy utahraptor! homeslice! oh, i wasn't talking about you here, i have and now god's in on it too, utahraptor. they're quite the whistles in mario, on a whale-watching tour:
< 1321993505 877448 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fungot, we love you so.
< 1321993506 425432 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: people in car car simulator trucko boat 3. that's a ' thr' followed that. remember? remember punchette, the power punch", sure but outside of a religious context, but it seems i'm destined to be with you
< 1321993506 482854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321993533 86484 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should use fungot to set the /topic.
< 1321993533 953945 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a good choice, then i'm going to make mistaks so bad that they kill me, and a parallel to all this, as usual, t-rex
< 1321993547 690367 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1321993548 820489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: --Gregor "antioptbot" Gregor
< 1321993589 670033 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321993649 651130 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1321993661 105151 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOUCHÉ SIR
< 1321993740 294961 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321993778 750450 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUMBLE INTROVERSION BUNDLE
< 1321993867 300958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ooh this sounds nice "Humble Introversion Bundle"
< 1321993871 460192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--the other channel, hours ago
< 1321993906 503665 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Crayon Physics Deluxe worth it?
< 1321993919 676321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you already have it from another bundle
< 1321993925 324439 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1321993932 144989 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Aquaria from another bundle
< 1321993936 631342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's fun for a while, but becomes a bit repetitive
< 1321993963 925567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the physics engine is a little wonky, enough that you can't really do things that the designers didn't think of and have them work with any degree of success
< 1321993970 748940 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1321994031 834866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it feels very random (actually, it's sensitivity to small details of input rather than randomness, but that comes to much the same thing in practice)
< 1321994044 354926 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1321994053 234244 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really hurt that much to get it, can it?
< 1321994079 160496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hardly thinks Introversion's games are worth less than 2.25 pounds.
< 1321994106 420440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION currently has $12.83 in his Paypal account...
< 1321994116 220616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION paid 4 pounds, because I already have Uplink and am uncertain whether I'll like DEFCON or not, plus already have the other two games, and I spent more than everyone else on the other bundles anyway.
< 1321994206 56172 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pays $5
< 1321994210 773378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1321994225 411439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my bank charged me an extra £1.50 for paying in dollars from a pounds-denominated bank account
< 1321994262 277053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my paypal didn't
< 1321994268 843802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You realise you can add more funds to PayPal acounts.
< 1321994275 356105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to use PayPal
< 1321994312 749079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321994312 925025 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not as easily as just using what's currently there
< 1321994315 800816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I fully predicted a response along those lines. I'm sure elaborating will be productive and entertaining for all of us.
< 1321994339 940776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, somehow I don't believe you
< 1321994350 789278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, it comes from multiple incidents in which they randomly decided to take people's money
< 1321994354 305040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interleave tab width discussion while you're at it!!!
< 1321994422 712863 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FINALLY KNOW WHA I'M DOING!
< 1321994429 570290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH A T ON THE END OF WHA
< 1321994469 865474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd
< 1321994521 831427 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on Reddit mentioned Slavehack as being like MMO Uplink?
< 1321994590 3684 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be StdGen -> Bool -> String -> String rather than Int -> Bool -> String -> String
< 1321994719 130199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Whenever you take an StdGen, you want to output one too
< 1321994723 985059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -> (String, StdGen)
< 1321994740 914706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does StdGen do?
< 1321994753 871102 :myndz\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321994762 649574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it does nothing, it's a type
< 1321994772 839353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's its intended use, then?
< 1321994777 695543 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unless you make an infinite String result, or perhaps even a potentially infinite one
< 1321994780 201775 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a random number generator
< 1321994796 226327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes
< 1321994799 275891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, using it monad-style
< 1321994801 474854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without an actual monad
< 1321994802 337145 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use it to obtain a number and a new RNG
< 1321994802 861537 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t split
< 1321994803 774316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall g. (RandomGen g) => g -> (g, g)
< 1321994843 887430 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one where you don't want the whole String to be calculated immediately, i guess
< 1321994863 981548 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t randoms
< 1321994865 123506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall g a. (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> [a]
< 1321994907 391864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t random
< 1321994908 406635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall g a. (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g)
< 1321994929 855193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks the fact that those aren't in a Random monad is awful.
< 1321994942 592165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that splitting :: (RandomGen g) => (g -> a) -> g -> (a, g); splitting f g = second f . split could be useful
< 1321994951 427861 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321994953 950562 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*first
< 1321995022 130813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: splitting f = fmap f random :P
< 1321995030 368415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with correct Random monad)
< 1321995045 113415 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1321995066 434715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: * elliott thinks the fact that those aren't in a Random monad is awful.
< 1321995089 634384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :random :: (Random a) => Rand a
< 1321995099 760363 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i guess if RandomGen was an instance of Random - except it's a class, so that would break things
< 1321995104 639386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runRand :: (RandomGen g) => Rand a -> g -> (a,g) etc.
< 1321995105 755242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um no
< 1321995112 282440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying that random's type is wrong
< 1321995117 854179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's threading an explicit state monad around instead of just
< 1321995119 952217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a state monad
< 1321995129 794498 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a program in Haskell that could be used in lessons to demonstrate why error handling is a good idea
< 1321995136 649772 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um do you realize what splitting _does_?
< 1321995182 604130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hm, i misread splitting
< 1321995191 356179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry
< 1321995191 422655 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so :P
< 1321995210 741563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :split :: Rand a -> Rand a
< 1321995212 3463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess :P
< 1321995229 480955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did some fonts go super small in GTK programs suddenly?!
< 1321995230 485891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1321995232 700635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all
< 1321995250 723108 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that reminds me
< 1321995255 946517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, maybe qt ones
< 1321995259 664899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want to use a module, I need to install the module
< 1321995264 677011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah QT
< 1321995285 352129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: very true.
< 1321995319 339445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: is that all
< 1321995324 544525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to restart x11
< 1321995335 852205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do install module?
< 1321995347 551963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what module
< 1321995348 488606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1321995350 978086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are being very vague
< 1321995362 53155 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Spreadsheet
< 1321995365 433567 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/spreadsheet
< 1321995373 558237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal install spreadsheet but uhhhh
< 1321995375 539492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would not use that package
< 1321995382 730946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/csv
< 1321995385 412556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try this instead :P
< 1321995395 353198 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (evalState . forever . state $ random) $ mkStdGen 42 :: [Int]
< 1321995396 209401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint:
< 1321995396 254644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what i've seen used
< 1321995396 603847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `System.Random.Random a'
< 1321995396 649246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1321995398 609303 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321995408 597281 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I need to rewrite my program.
< 1321995409 946952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :w
< 1321995412 392198 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1321995414 670540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the No
< 1321995418 653206 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said Now, not No
< 1321995421 769076 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (evalState . sequence . state $ random) $ mkStdGen 42 :: [Int]
< 1321995422 845574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[Control.Monad.Trans.State.Lazy.StateT
< 1321995423 45123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      ...
< 1321995424 197935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but anyway, "cabal install pkg"
< 1321995435 434091 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph
< 1321995437 928399 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t state
< 1321995438 944192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s a. (s -> (a, s)) -> State s a
< 1321995440 119547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shouldn't need to rewrite your program, just the csv input bits P:
< 1321995441 311051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1321995447 830960 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if I'm an idiot and using Windows?
< 1321995451 974196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: might be strict
< 1321995452 436678 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t evalState
< 1321995453 350442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s a. State s a -> s -> a
< 1321995454 714656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: cabal install pkg
< 1321995464 354175 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it _says_ Lazy up there :P
< 1321995476 321681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "expected" but ok
< 1321995494 393087 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1321995504 126856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: open cmd.exe and run that stuff I presume?
< 1321995510 880204 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (evalState . sequence . repeat . state $ random) $ mkStdGen 42 :: [Int]
< 1321995511 950092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the right path
< 1321995512 528882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [-3907187990116499535,-2519438828217931933,-8264534369199619667,86887135830...
< 1321995515 188781 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally
< 1321995568 121954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> randoms
< 1321995569 658771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (g -> [a])
< 1321995570 23921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of...
< 1321995586 653036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> randoms (mkStdGen 42)
< 1321995588 272527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [-3907187990116499535,-2519438828217931933,-8264534369199619667,86887135830...
< 1321995588 818981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forever
< 1321995589 873483 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b
< 1321995595 975320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src forever
< 1321995596 321448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
< 1321995602 116836 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P
< 1321995605 152130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what package is it in?
< 1321995605 469965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever = fix (>>)
< 1321995607 394091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :base
< 1321995615 311479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1321995618 465229 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: duh
< 1321995672 54535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: runRandAll :: Rand a -> [a] >:)
< 1321995673 709581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it isn't in Prelude if that is what you meant.
< 1321995696 585555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "package" does not mean what you seem to think it means
< 1321995705 42277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, module is what I meant
< 1321995709 378523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: runRandAll random g == randoms g
< 1321995710 279905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :used wrong word
< 1321995713 696038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Control.Monad
< 1321995716 354237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1321995725 306196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: runRandAll (liftA2 (,) random random) g == guess
< 1321995903 816824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321996003 911755 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also randoms g, but with [(a,a)] return type?
< 1321996061 863360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually, randoms is very inelegant
< 1321996065 249662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally runRandAll would be
< 1321996073 907265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runRandAll :: Rand a -> [a] with no g argument
< 1321996079 714533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simply return _all possible results_
< 1321996087 712189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the random types involved in its computation
< 1321996116 78953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst $ random (mkStdGen 42) :: [(Int, Int)]
< 1321996117 89140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (System.Random.Random
< 1321996117 364977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    [(GHC.Types.Int, ...
< 1321996118 348777 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1321996122 89843 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst $ random (mkStdGen 42) :: (Int, Int)
< 1321996123 10524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (System.Random.Random
< 1321996123 197690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    (GHC.Types.Int, G...
< 1321996125 849392 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1321996140 675402 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would be, if that instance existed
< 1321996196 322476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, MonadRandom doesn't have that
< 1321996212 831813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck FAT
< 1321996223 988607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses this USB memory
< 1321996230 320504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious way to model running a nondetemrministic computation on a generator is to have it simply magically pick one ofthe results of runRandAll...
< 1321996230 664580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATs differ but appear to be intact. Use which FAT ?
< 1321996230 892166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Use first FAT
< 1321996230 937471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Use second FAT
< 1321996237 87410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, but optimised :)
< 1321996273 591141 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that doesn't include the RandomGen class so would be restricted to the StdGen instance...
< 1321996286 678740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i mean that's just how you'd _think_ about it
< 1321996297 214334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src RandomGen
< 1321996298 34855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class RandomGen g where
< 1321996298 403963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   next     :: g -> (Int, g)
< 1321996298 449656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   split    :: g -> (g, g)
< 1321996298 449859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   genRange :: g -> (Int,Int)
< 1321996300 581623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Random
< 1321996301 545414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Random a where
< 1321996301 736986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  random    :: RandomGen g => g -> (a, g)
< 1321996302 88642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  randoms   :: RandomGen g => g -> [a]
< 1321996304 164260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  randomR   :: RandomGen g => (a,a) -> g -> (a,g)
< 1321996306 219840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  randomRs  :: RandomGen g => (a,a) -> g -> [a]
< 1321996307 977636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  randomRIO :: (a,a) -> IO a
< 1321996310 186647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  randomIO  :: IO a
< 1321996323 238782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ideally it'd be something like class (Ix a) => Random a where { something }
< 1321996331 959229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh Bounded a
< 1321996333 525428 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought of that
< 1321996337 627787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, runRandAll wouldn't need a generator
< 1321996342 409389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just pick every single possible value of the type
< 1321996355 605149 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym Enum, Bounded has no range
< 1321996359 537261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you might want a binary tree thing instead if you actually want to use them...
< 1321996361 177416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1321996364 697282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enum + Bounded
< 1321996407 294193 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but randomIx :: (RandomGen g, Ix a) => (a,a) -> g -> (a, g)  could be written now...
< 1321996419 487536 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would work for tuples
< 1321996455 90022 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Ix
< 1321996455 245145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Ord a) => Ix a where
< 1321996455 682763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    range           :: (a,a) -> [a]
< 1321996455 728047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    index           :: (a,a) -> a -> Int
< 1321996455 728207 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    inRange         :: (a,a) -> a -> Bool
< 1321996455 728307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    rangeSize       :: (a,a) -> Int
< 1321996490 880034 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rangeSize (1,2)
< 1321996491 923538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2
< 1321996503 799772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah. i am going to sleep rather than think about this. _tomorrow_ I can futz around with random monads.
< 1321996507 524996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :night.
< 1321996513 167794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight
< 1321996519 691311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1321996543 589944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait Ix has no way to get _back_ an a value from an Int :(
< 1321996556 308727 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Enum has no tuple instance
< 1321996570 164328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well no efficient way)
< 1321996895 741343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, poor I.
< 1321996895 829700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ix
< 1321997202 89585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so any luck with your computer?
< 1321997218 86929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe you should get some experienced you know near you to check it out?
< 1321997225 336797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to play WA but elliott is gone and Sgeo is boring.
< 1321997234 573312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WA? Wolfram Alpha?
< 1321997240 675128 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worms: Armageddon
< 1321997242 921619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1321997242 989940 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Western Australia?
< 1321997243 779662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1321997251 997339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't own that game, so I can't join in
< 1321997261 593014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't have my copy of the ISO with mne
< 1321997278 36662 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure when I'll ever have it
< 1321997281 202242 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1321997302 339666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1321997308 799544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :torrent it?
< 1321997328 281152 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1321997334 424645 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have school in a few hours
< 1321997369 462843 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time zone?
< 1321997369 969453 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram armageddon, the genius overlord game
< 1321997375 184967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh
< 1321997386 384424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote for quote
< 1321997398 363745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  wolfram armageddon, the genius overlord game
< 1321997400 453060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1321997400 786882 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :734)  wolfram armageddon, the genius overlord game
< 1321997428 142832 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321997443 415193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed
< 1321997462 994249 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how awful
< 1321997472 423517 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321997487 682554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed
< 1321997491 406191 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl test
< 1321997491 801674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1321997493 596381 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321997493 916116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless: sorry, nothing to resume.
< 1321997496 828638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite an @pl you gave it
< 1321997510 242296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pl was it he gave it?
< 1321997512 967881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see it
< 1321997529 133994 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might still have been on the one that crashed yesterday, and which started the day before that
< 1321997536 910784 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321997540 186308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321997540 539843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321997546 301855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321997547 336271 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321997553 605968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321997553 882373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321997556 672823 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321997567 488231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why is that doing that?
< 1321997569 195326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321997569 337256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321997599 601544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because ap is SKI S and it tries to rewrite ap x y z as x z (y z)
< 1321997620 138138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume
< 1321997635 430631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed
< 1321997664 456862 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1321997669 328060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right
< 1321997672 905120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1321997680 867225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there a way to do it properly?
< 1321997703 152209 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it seems like the thread killing only happens based on something like cpu time, so the other day i could resume it despite a day having passed :P
< 1321997707 486397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ap
< 1321997707 842237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap = liftM2 id
< 1321997713 154673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Applicative, right
< 1321997726 349020 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um S I I (S I I) _is_ an infinite loop in SKI calculus
< 1321997732 807264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1321997743 450867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't say I ever studied SKI much
< 1321997752 872214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ap
< 1321997753 179964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude appendFile :: FilePath -> String -> IO ()
< 1321997753 526416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO appendFile :: FilePath -> String -> IO ()
< 1321997753 571686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad ap :: Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
< 1321997773 453759 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the (e ->) monad, as usual for @pl
< 1321997885 41904 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl ap x y z
< 1321997885 385050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x z (y z)
< 1321997890 149210 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :S S K (S (K (S S (S (S S K)))) K)
< 1321997909 745472 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl ap ap const (ap (const (ap ap (ap (ap ap const)))) const)
< 1321997909 897478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap ap const (ap ap (ap (ap ap const)) . const)
< 1321997920 267815 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww
< 1321998004 130640 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl ap ap const (ap ap (ap (ap ap const)) . const)
< 1321998004 577416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((\ m n -> m >>= \ k -> n >>= \ j -> return (k j)) >>= \ e -> (\ a _ -> a) >>= \ d -> return (e d)) (\ r -> ((\ ab ac -> ab >>= \ z -> ac >>= \ y -> return (z y)) >>= \ t -> (\ ai -> ((\ au av -> au
< 1321998004 892335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>= \ as -> av >>= \ ar -> return (as ar)) >>= \ al -> (\ b _ -> b) >>= \ ak -> return (al ak)) >>= \ af -> ai >>= \ ae -> return (af ae)) >>= \ s -> return (t s)) (\ _ -> r))
< 1321998007 861198 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1321998074 701404 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: however, ap may be the only thing @pl handles which causes actual duplication during simplification, so that it can loop
< 1321998096 714192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1321998120 106797 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> x x)
< 1321998120 467716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join id
< 1321998126 734863 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x)
< 1321998130 39117 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id)
< 1321998130 395099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
< 1321998191 471574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl join join join
< 1321998191 706624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join join join
< 1321998200 81053 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1321998210 868197 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl join id (join id)
< 1321998210 937867 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join id (join id)
< 1321998227 799473 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl ap id id (join id)
< 1321998228 172528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join id (join id)
< 1321998250 615263 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it's possible it only introduces join at the end of the previous simplifications
< 1321998289 736599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl join join join
< 1321998290 112248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((\ d -> d >>= \ c -> c) >>= \ a -> a) (\ f -> f >>= \ e -> e)
< 1321998298 237459 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl ((\ d -> d >>= \ c -> c) >>= \ a -> a) (\ f -> f >>= \ e -> e)
< 1321998298 615741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join join join
< 1321998301 887145 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1321998327 855280 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it _could_ have made join duplicate, but doesn't try
< 1321998448 596601 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw none of these expressions type in actual haskell)
< 1321998476 328480 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1321998478 799959 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join join
< 1321998479 857755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
< 1321998480 23439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      m = (->) (m (m a))
< 1321998480 69696 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Probable cause: `join' is applied to too few arguments
< 1321998482 634157 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1321998485 1412 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-59.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: dreamzz
< 1321998498 540683 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join id
< 1321998499 401324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a)
< 1321998499 534144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments
< 1321998499 579656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the first argument of `join', namely `id'
< 1321998508 805153 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even that
< 1321998746 849279 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1321999020 977086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322000616 659107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like there's this huge reaction of "looool stop being lazy get a job"
< 1322000621 828431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in response to Occupy protestors
< 1322000650 567776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's just
< 1322000653 839528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a magical job tree
< 1322000661 951901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you a job if you /really/ want one.
< 1322001219 368266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clap your hands if you believe in jobs.
< 1322001751 566452 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that is my dad's view. doesn't help that all the major news outlets only show the "alternative types" and not the regular people
< 1322001771 359466 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the daily show. it showed some regularish people. does that count as a major news outlet?
< 1322001846 268396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1322001896 523430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NPR has pretty coverage of Occupy as well.
< 1322001905 160997 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as much video
< 1322001912 581335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all audio/writing/photographs mostly
< 1322001931 454024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pretty good
< 1322002083 169504 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :prett works
< 1322002203 46760 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1322002300 268801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think Occupy will accomplish anything unless it gets more people.
< 1322002308 557863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, if the unemployment rate goes up
< 1322002312 983594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people have nothing else to do
< 1322002318 672419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but go protest the government
< 1322002348 357146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically you're saying it's in Occupy's best interests to destroy the jobs of hard-working Americans everywhere?
< 1322002415 81710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite
< 1322002429 628959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupy's best interest is not to have further economic crises.
< 1322002433 357347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...
< 1322002436 111269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1322002463 378983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this would be worsening of an existing crisis to drive home their point.
< 1322002485 792572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I guess?
< 1322002516 469275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Occupy should go make more people jobless
< 1322002521 426944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that... makes no sense.
< 1322002571 349114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow switzerland has a 2.1% unemploy rate
< 1322002590 934597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Signapore is 1.9
< 1322002610 193901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf Monaco is 0
< 1322002678 936944 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monaco has the advantage of having a population of 35,986.
< 1322002690 22367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1322002700 594285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still that's amazing that /everyone/ has a job.
< 1322002721 917149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to become a citizen and then FUCK UP THEIR STATS HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1322002730 315198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no income tax
< 1322002731 896735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is badass
< 1322002774 899286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically a bunch of rich Europeans live there so they can gamble and avoid taxes.
< 1322002777 959244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good.
< 1322003112 158071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as not-micronations
< 1322003120 16730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :belarus has the best at 0.7%
< 1322003151 377560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the Belarusian economy remains state-controlled[93] and has been described as "Soviet-style."[124] Thus, 51.2% of Belarusians are employed by state-controlled companies, 47.4% are employed by private Belarusian companies (of which 5.7% are partially foreign-owned), and 1.4% are employed by foreign companies.
< 1322003197 664233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* kallisti decides to become a citizen and then FUCK UP THEIR STATS HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1322003219 905528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise that a) the cost of living will be huge and b) they're under no obligation to let you in.
< 1322003239 786569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1322003250 42618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no I actually hadn't thought about that
< 1322003335 997036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. If you are employed or have been offered to work for a Monegasque company within the principality of Monaco
< 1322003338 881328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are wanting to set up a new business in Monaco, in which case the residency will only be given once the company has been officially registered.
< 1322003341 868732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can prove that you have a certain net wealth and can leave a minimum capital balance in your Monaco account. This amount is at the discretion of the Monaco bank.
< 1322003351 791102 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to meet one of those three criteria
< 1322003379 138442 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1322003403 178060 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322003844 320285 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the requirements for *citizenship*?
< 1322003860 922128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1322003871 261477 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damn.
< 1322003876 397688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's /or/ not /and/
< 1322003881 313827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only have to do one.
< 1322003884 94497 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daaamn.
< 1322003909 901485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prove that you have a certain net wealth" I wonder how much that is typically
< 1322003923 876698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1322003949 922396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1322003982 287545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess everyone is technically "employed" in Monaco because they either own a business, work for a business, or have so much money that they don't really need a job.
< 1322004018 263821 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cept there's native citizens.
< 1322004199 425811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monaco's population is unusual in that the native Monegasques are a minority in their own country comprising 21.6% of the population. The largest group are French nationals at 28.4%, followed by Monegasque (21.6%), Italian (18.7%), British (7.5%), Belgian (2.8%), German (2.5%), Swiss (2.5%) and US nationals (1.2%).
< 1322004221 689955 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1322004438 701677 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322004440 862318 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-211.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1322004697 609208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh though apparently the GDP (PPP) per capita in Monaco is ranked 31st
< 1322004726 863404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the States are 9th
< 1322004768 481973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... well
< 1322004787 36345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with nominal GDP per capita, Monaco ranks first (in rankings where it's actually /included/)
< 1322004803 630804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
< 1322004853 160983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically
< 1322004857 761665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cost of living in Monaco is ridiculous
< 1322004956 968774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Norway is apparently awesome both in terms of nominal and PPP GDP per capita.
< 1322004973 965966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is also not a micro-nation
< 1322005171 827500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wtf, so you've alternated between the same two prime ministers for the last 14 years or so?
< 1322005314 783420 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1322006060 496697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurabia
< 1322006063 913508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is incredibly stupid.
< 1322006280 217407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1322006594 897211 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: bondevik and stoltenberg?  i guess it's been about that long.  bondevik is retired though, so it's not likely to repeat
< 1322006624 526961 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erna solberg is the most likely conservative side candidate at the moment
< 1322006943 758612 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stoltenberg it's logical, he's the leader of norway's largest party
< 1322006994 533173 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bondevik on the other hand was leader of a small one, he just had unusual abilities to get much of the right wing side to cooperate
< 1322007128 501609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1322007254 520763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Norwegian politics good?
< 1322007258 439508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is stoltenberg good?
< 1322007278 192138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, at the time it looks like the right wing are likely to take over next election.  still two years until that, though
< 1322007294 229188 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming they can find _some_ way to agree :P
< 1322007391 767347 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the progressive party is fairly unpopular with the two smallest right wing parties, although they seem to have realized they're unlikely to get into government again without them)
< 1322007504 571340 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "good"?  it's rather peaceful.
< 1322007557 141447 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stoltenberg is somewhat "technocratic", he's a social economist
< 1322007717 875511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good good
< 1322007721 844291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail technocratic order
< 1322007804 952399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :American politics kind of works like this: AAAAAAAAAAAHRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRHHHHHRRRRHHHHGGGGGUUURGLEAAAAAARGHHHHAHAHHHARHARHRRHHARHARAKGAKRKAG
< 1322007814 744469 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1322007944 233216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1322007952 103779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be surpirsed to learn this
< 1322007959 998503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is essentially to understanding what's going on.
< 1322007969 18377 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the progressive party isn't much that way in norway any longer
< 1322007983 61244 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're trying to appear responsible so they can get into government)
< 1322007988 553833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because Norway's economy is good.
< 1322007997 805320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(???)
< 1322008005 853725 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm sure that helps
< 1322008024 708445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though even when the economy is good in the US it's AAAAAAARGGHHHHHGURGLE
< 1322008034 842610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of loud angry people.
< 1322008035 57266 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're still worried about everyone south of us collapsing, though.  bad for exports.
< 1322008044 422324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.
< 1322008057 947544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just export to different places yes. :P
< 1322008091 864520 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't help that china _still_ doesn't want to talk to us after last year's nobel prize
< 1322008113 609947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahaha
< 1322008153 903634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be complicated being the prize-giving country.
< 1322008164 597278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who do you give the prizes too? complex question.
< 1322008187 810039 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.  maybe if sweden could give the literature prize to them next year, it'll take some heat off us
< 1322008206 214382 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they'll just give up on scandinavia overall
< 1322008222 572122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wait what are they mad about?
< 1322008246 225120 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the peace prize going to a chinese dissisent who was at the time in _jail_...
< 1322008250 443000 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dissident
< 1322008281 842497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1322008287 656878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about that.
< 1322008332 788749 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard there was a little optimism though, apparently a norwegian and chinese minister got seated together recently for lunch/dinner at some conference, iirc
< 1322008342 577660 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually talked
< 1322008345 674898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sheesh Nobel people let us be a communist police state if we want to"
< 1322008359 776623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good
< 1322008387 829875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey China, we're sorry you're bad at human rights and we awarded the guy that you wanted to keep quiet for being so awesome."
< 1322008450 722141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is obvious how the conversation went)
< 1322008454 209034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ly
< 1322008559 68376 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that the chinese had added stupid restrictions so that norwegian salmon, which previously could get from norway to chinese restaurants in just a day or two, now takes 8 days
< 1322008573 11896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looool
< 1322008582 300479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all the salmon tastes bad in China.
< 1322008586 292919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1322008645 532575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the physics and chemistry prizes are more impressive some years than others.
< 1322008654 587908 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1322008655 321826 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322008663 629195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the 2009 one is kind of boring for physics
< 1322008681 545441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and supernovae aren't really that awesome but quasicrystals FUCK YEAH THAT'S LIKE NEW SHIT
< 1322008727 817334 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm the supernovae were awesome, they showed that the universe is _accelerating_
< 1322008753 912639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah that's boring. QUADICRYSTALS
< 1322008756 832090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*S
< 1322008762 271247 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when all intuition about gravity as well as previous theories say it should be slowing down
< 1322008794 682494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's good
< 1322008802 756819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like when scientists use intuition and are wrong. :>
< 1322008840 560846 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89237.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1322008858 578687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : In 1964 Jean-Paul Sartre was awarded the Literature Prize but refused, stating, "A writer must refuse to allow himself to be transformed into an institution, even if it takes place in the most honourable form."
< 1322008862 530328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a dick.
< 1322008890 431652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :existential dick.
< 1322008957 369601 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _has_ been said that getting the literature prize is bad for your future writing, though
< 1322008980 713726 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1322009056 820179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm in what way?
< 1322009072 538581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1322009079 253391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad for your writing style
< 1322009082 676542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bad for your popularity?
< 1322009125 170789 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad for your writing style, i think
< 1322009462 944934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have other categories.
< 1322009465 860035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like mathematics!
< 1322009544 383538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :journalism would be a good category.
< 1322009619 796406 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, norway tried to make something like that with the abel prize.
< 1322010144 285666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of confused about Barack Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize
< 1322010154 958829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he get it because... he wasn't George Bush?
< 1322010186 262742 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and black.
< 1322010233 335417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tolerant of Muslims I guess?
< 1322010236 813832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, okay
< 1322010241 800404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he didn't really do anything.
< 1322010263 452607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just wins an award for existing and becoming US president. Congratulations!
< 1322010268 156717 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realize norwegians were just as puzzled as americans about it, right? :P
< 1322010339 445154 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may just be a result of Thorbjørn Jagland's (nobel committee leader, former prime minister) natural disaster attracting capability
< 1322010357 837560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1322010364 578295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that weird o in his name probably.
< 1322010377 927329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a mystic spell.
< 1322010387 543160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient nordic pagan magic.
< 1322010401 747409 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: how he lost his prime ministership; last year's prize
< 1322010419 281702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he just likes controversial prizes.
< 1322010427 828646 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe.
< 1322010430 379908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe much wasn't going on in Peace in 2009?
< 1322010468 62572 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess i've forgotten if there was anything
< 1322010547 159605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several Nobel Laureates have commented: Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev (winner 1990), gave his congratulations,[55] Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus, (co-winner 2006 prize), said the committee's award was "an endorsement of [Obama] and the direction he is taking."
< 1322010561 177024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah they just like him for existing and not being a shitty US president.
< 1322010617 59019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job Obama! you've changed public relations across the world by not being George Bush.
< 1322010667 682189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Europe, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the award would reinforce Obama's determination to work for justice and peace. He added that the award "finally confirms the return of America in the hearts of all the peoples of the world"
< 1322010672 40218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :America!! Fuck yeah!!
< 1322010746 728271 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322010752 300629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1322010753 443399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said the decision was ridiculous, saying, "The Nobel prize for peace? Obama should have won the 'Nobel Prize for escalating violence and killing civilians.'"
< 1322010757 431310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha. the irony.
< 1322010826 993510 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side, afaict jagland hasn't actually managed to ruin the council of europe yet.  in fact russia even ratified the recent reforms...
< 1322011028 249629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I am not know Eurolitics
< 1322011091 800429 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :council of europe is an organization which has most european countries as members;  it's most important part is the european court of human rights which upholds the european human rights convention
< 1322011096 973165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf why is Japan a candidate for membership of the council of Europe?
< 1322011100 92412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its
< 1322011104 437486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it like... candidate to be observer?
< 1322011105 915514 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is?
< 1322011141 49626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1322011141 891208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind
< 1322011144 614770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm colorblind
< 1322011155 718789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was red on the map but it's orange so it's an observerer.
< 1322011235 976191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH HO LETS SEE WHAT XKCD SUCKS HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE NEW XKCD
< 1322011238 751741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nothing yet.
< 1322011368 563243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wtf the anthem for the Council of Europe is Ode to Joy?
< 1322011393 442135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on. that's the worst thing ever.
< 1322011425 657044 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats kallisti -----###
< 1322011427 428674 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS NOT
< 1322011445 531200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's bad.
< 1322011450 118008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beethoven had better stuff.
< 1322011464 193300 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits kallisti with the saucepan ===\__/
< 1322011470 367337 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This set is among the smallest sets ever found."
< 1322011482 951878 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather silly when taken out of context.
< 1322011490 521852 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN /DUN/.. DUNDUN
< 1322011492 399791 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey guys!  We just discovered a set that has TWO ELEMENTS!"
< 1322011496 595606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Ode to Joy
< 1322011503 920256 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Holy shit!  Only two?  How does it work?"
< 1322011603 129020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's mostly just quarter notes and it's in the completely lame key of D major
< 1322011610 561217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: I had to play it a lot in middle school band so now I hate it.
< 1322011685 171501 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah childhood abuse, i understand now.
< 1322011688 644375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not bad with a choir
< 1322011694 298067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the POWER OF THE  HUMAN VOICE
< 1322011700 872239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of makes it a more moving piece
< 1322011786 147641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's all triumphant and grand
< 1322011805 498676 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FUCK YEAH JOY"
< 1322011838 553626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confetti*  *angels*
< 1322011867 838866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Ode to Joy
< 1322011907 726741 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322011930 76467 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1322012071 809400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm pumpkin pie
< 1322012097 367221 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ode to Joy" is just a selection of a part of a symphony, dunno why it's played so much.
< 1322012122 579189 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *technically* any country could join the Council of Europe.
< 1322012130 724921 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the Council of Europe deems a country European, it is.
< 1322012136 879293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zimbabwe
< 1322012148 833417 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically? Yes.
< 1322012175 389631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :russia is kind of European
< 1322012181 812017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :culturally
< 1322012195 937858 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The majority of the population of Russia is in Europe.
< 1322012239 272219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1322012256 897854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russia is the largest country in the world, covering more than one eighth of the Earth's inhabited land area.
< 1322012259 971005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so insane.
< 1322012620 642064 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1322012639 248860 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1322012941 23692 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Holy shit!  Only two?  How does it work?" // just - like - magnets
< 1322012972 944843 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so it's Magic Got It?
< 1322012973 48606 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and it used to be even larger...
< 1322013028 241697 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic nets, obviously
< 1322013078 946878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the EU is cheating.
< 1322013085 989399 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that nearly half his life is _after_ the soviet union dissolved
< 1322013093 610160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having a larger GDP when it's not really a country.
< 1322013123 221282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheaters
< 1322013154 249347 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With an area of 22,402,200 square kilometres (8,649,500 sq mi), the Soviet Union was the world's largest state. Covering a sixth of the Earth's land surface, its size was comparable to that of North America."
< 1322013411 97099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EU_belief_in_God.svg
< 1322013412 832677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare to
< 1322013423 970617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2008 survey of 1,000 people concluded that, based on their stated beliefs rather than their religious identification, 70% of Americans believe in a personal God, roughly 12% of Americans are atheist or agnostic, and another 12% are deistic (believing in a higher power/non-personal God, but no personal God).
< 1322013445 197792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...1000 isn't a very large population size
< 1322013470 808461 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION believes in an impersonal, mass-produced god.
< 1322013528 451663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gallup International indicates that 41%[56] of American citizens report they regularly attend religious services, compared to 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[57] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.
< 1322013533 665572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GODLESS EUROPEANS
< 1322013541 522586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO VALUES.
< 1322013614 478164 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :australians are not european.  just saying.
< 1322013631 634199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about them
< 1322013641 943124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THEY TOO ARE GODLESS
< 1322013643 491127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN MORE SO
< 1322013645 705926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHAMEFUL
< 1322013674 91114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Church_or_synagogue_attendance_by_state_GFDL.svg
< 1322013689 508999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in the orange thing inside that big patch of red.
< 1322013692 20918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :red for danger.
< 1322013698 123211 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the australians are probably substituting with sacred activities such as beach surfing and bbq
< 1322013783 874868 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Germany: Putting the Gödel back into Godless Europeans.
< 1322013885 638036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course crocodile wrestling
< 1322014002 169673 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322014402 764380 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname
< 1322014556 686097 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1322014577 168633 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322014721 742960 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322014872 235984 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1322014900 897015 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322015022 728377 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1322015144 772399 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322015217 104866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-56.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1322015236 749942 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-172.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1322015558 810403 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1322017461 540325 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD: Still installing.
< 1322018840 990148 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know the TeX equivalent of 
? < 1322018859 504552 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i used to know this < 1322018891 210760 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{quote} or was that just for literate haskell... < 1322018909 355333 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was code < 1322018911 489196 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322018949 209947 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inb4 zzo: that's latex, not tex) < 1322018956 861658 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo is not here < 1322018964 763031 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1322020305 97105 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322020517 453900 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322020540 283314 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322021337 315954 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322022320 137260 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322022846 699572 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETBSD: STILL BLOODY INSTALLING < 1322022893 541034 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a net drain on resources < 1322023247 324515 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322023679 814035 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322025058 317124 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322025225 288266 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322025293 401995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322025557 168332 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322025557 213783 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322025557 213852 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322025573 665285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://horrorchan.com/post/8846627981/chip-chan < 1322025578 388834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so fucking weird and sad. < 1322025729 290073 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322025945 208938 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322026122 303167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322026425 157965 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322026437 961029 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322026493 332270 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322028370 585971 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322028465 25143 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1322028585 213167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322028649 395914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322029282 292390 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1322030145 428765 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322030185 839612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott here's Gravity Well but I can't get it to work via Wine http://www.tucows.com/preview/289104 < 1322030185 978551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322030224 329327 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322031294 585265 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'quote' environment does indent a bit, on both sides. < 1322032463 643342 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322033625 491247 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322033669 478156 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322033961 435167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322034049 556650 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322034495 517531 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1322034673 603126 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322035299 793144 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322036093 920741 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns that monqy likes Crawl < 1322036178 846074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322036237 535207 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322036535 10644 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1322036540 89125 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: haven't you learned: I don't < 1322036543 574617 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I just hang out there < 1322036578 916720 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't actually play crawl. it's kind of like how ais hangs out in ##crawl-dev and I don't think he plays crawl either?? < 1322036635 626138 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's less that I like crawl and more that I like ##crawl < 1322036640 126813 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in which we learn that no one actually plays crawl any longer, they just stay because of the nice community < 1322036663 130694 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some value of nice < 1322036689 990464 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we cannot expect #esoteric standards, of course < 1322036701 274220 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1322036841 345426 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322036871 250454 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here do anything with esoteric languages? < 1322036878 148251 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that < 1322036878 522272 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even pretend to. < 1322036908 178541 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens < 1322036940 982846 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is still trying to improve his funge98 in haskell interpreter < 1322036975 554069 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg $ tr '12345678' '+-<>[],.' | bf < 1322036980 979149 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents new esolang. < 1322037007 513244 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in luck, Phantom_Hoover isn't here < 1322037022 767539 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may still have a slight chance of surviving < 1322037088 469617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've currently got two ideas for esoteric programming languages and one sort-of-but-not-very-esoteric language with a partially written spec. < 1322037096 639847 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322037105 413909 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322037117 137226 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But look at my innovative syntax! < 1322037151 223510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also is that the fabled hasksh < 1322037158 337736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hask--sh! < 1322037163 812406 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, it's even context-free, how innovative is that < 1322037166 764410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in formal contexts < 1322037168 189383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as weddings < 1322037176 98592 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hask sh wedding < 1322037181 222359 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322037187 816312 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, i's regularsh. < 1322037206 181999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm ah < 1322037217 57143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that was throwing me off was the standalone $ < 1322037250 741649 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg $ must be the propmt < 1322037255 344922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322037287 43090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I sure am lazy! < 1322037296 549094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1322037299 188591 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: $ is the prompt, "zomg" is an exclamation. < 1322037307 92643 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1322037314 4671 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because zomg $ would be a bad prompte < 1322037420 81173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you zen master programmer yet? < 1322037423 439259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you? < 1322037424 983374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1322037427 152854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1322037428 45206 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that me? < 1322037431 786413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1322037435 638833 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :< < 1322037443 425265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :,ye < 1322037450 519175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1322037458 248614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is zen master programmer < 1322037469 306824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION  < 1322037479 748310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of prompts: do you use coloured or monochrome prompts? < 1322037499 758637 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochromme < 1322037507 705260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I use a coloured prompt, because it easily stands out in the scrollback. < 1322037519 265510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[01;34m\] \w \$\[\033[00m\] " < 1322037524 503618 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'd like a colored prompt, but i really don't care enough to do one < 1322037532 232904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there you have one < 1322037535 124999 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1='C:\>' < 1322037540 308156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually do it with single quotes < 1322037544 156175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is it rainbow prompt? < 1322037560 731586 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my simple prompte: PS1='[\u@\h \w]\$ ' < 1322037561 623323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't speak ANSI very well < 1322037563 975215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, it is just green for user@host then blue for path and the $ < 1322037570 307482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a red prompt for root < 1322037587 2736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just hostname in red then path and $ in blue < 1322037590 543217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo $PS1 < 1322037591 224075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[\e]0;\u@\h: \w\a\]${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\u@\h:\w\$ < 1322037594 792822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :default Ubuntu prompt < 1322037598 745384 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1322037609 765189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :export PS1="\[\033[01;31m\]\h\[\033[01;34m\] \w \$\[\033[00m\] " is from root's .bashrc < 1322037652 688645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's time < 1322037655 778967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to smoke the hookah < 1322037657 839358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the stuff < 1322037659 288990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I bought < 1322037664 353444 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322037666 822927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>) < 1322037672 552503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw if behaviour of ! in bash ever annoyed you, add "set +H" (without quotes) to your .bashrc < 1322037690 743438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns off the crazy behaviour of ! < 1322037726 191921 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322037756 953952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brand is Moassel Ayam Zaman and the flavor is called 1001 Nights < 1322037763 804440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be more like traditional shisha < 1322037776 566808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was stupid expensive so it better be good < 1322037779 929459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I will send angry emails < 1322037781 491116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I won't) < 1322037839 46637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :arabic sure is a pretty script. < 1322037878 224730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of looks like what stereotypical alien language script looks like. < 1322037916 775565 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322037922 603251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: night < 1322037931 708091 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal$ echo "But I love that behavior!" < 1322037934 271091 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1322037939 467205 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me escape that. < 1322037944 267526 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what happened to my history? < 1322038048 587975 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-238.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322038065 227733 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-56.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322038080 750531 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322038250 416768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, what happened to my history? <-- that is what ! does ... < 1322038264 563550 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: help < 1322038272 806918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, ha, get it. < 1322038274 301412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good joke. < 1322038324 516633 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322038541 614349 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a real colorful prompt, but I haven't bothered to keep it so now it's just the default. Though I don't really know what's up with this default '\[\e]0;\u@\h: \w\a\]\u@\h:\w\$ ' nonsense, it looks just like the plain '\u@\h:\w\$ ' part. < 1322038618 499432 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The first part is setting the terminal's title. < 1322038637 294326 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right; couldn't remember what esc-]0; was. < 1322038702 848325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they try to match escape codes with \] btw, but it seems to matter, or readline gets fucked up if your input causes a line wrap < 1322038758 546816 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems I've used PS1="[\t] \[\e[1;34m\]\u@\h \[\e[1;32m\]\w \[\e[1;37m\]\$ \[\e[0m\]" in some bygone age. Bluh. < 1322038777 202426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? < 1322038787 546233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh timestamp < 1322038789 599663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322038797 54895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look too bad < 1322038797 637784 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not that far from yours, except with swapped colors and the timestamp. < 1322038806 481620 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a differently colored $. < 1322038813 492440 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :export PS1="[$CYAN%D{%F} :: %D{%T}$NORMAL] $GOLD%n$NORMAL@$GOLD%m $GREEN%~$NORMAL < 1322038816 980073 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ " < 1322038819 613549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mine is based on gentoo's default prompt around 2004 but with some changes < 1322038821 78347 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all literate. < 1322038822 710117 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="1:$PS1" < 1322038837 529467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what does echo "$PS1" output? < 1322038844 739251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is useless without the rest of your file < 1322038857 505043 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It outputs in colour, that can't be copied. < 1322038870 28848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: huh echo $PS1 here doesn't output in colour < 1322038874 686232 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: zsh. < 1322038877 321868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322038882 958234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can't test it anyway then < 1322038905 408570 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322038930 376081 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a long timestamp. < 1322038939 86502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1322038945 883977 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The colour codes are: normal = 0, green = 32, cyan = 36, gold = 33, yellow = 33, magenta = 35) < 1322038947 746601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :your prompt, yes < 1322038949 553181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[yyyy-mm-dd :: HH:MM:SS], in Deewiant's. < 1322038952 804929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322038989 608892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322039026 454204 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people use two-line prompts and stuffs. < 1322039037 274882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that, never liked it < 1322039038 566586 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is two-line. < 1322039048 553560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, %n is a newline? < 1322039054 751330 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the line break is a newline. < 1322039056 789572 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's what the raw newline was about. < 1322039057 555326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, university < 1322039091 268045 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :First line is essentially "[timestamp] user@host pwd" and the second is just "$ " < 1322039119 798597 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I just concatenated them when testing, didn't realize the newline was intentional. < 1322039199 665634 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322039226 769327 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322039265 407617 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322039504 662930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322040608 928328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1322040612 555423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am lightheaded now. < 1322040614 227623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1322040617 702928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : 𐎣𐎠𐎼𐎿𐏃𐎠 < 1322041327 356249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : In chemistry alcohol can refer to more than ethyl alcohol. Methyl (wood) alcohol is poisonous. < 1322041336 1059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :poisonous as opposed to...? < 1322042444 798064 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322042834 317444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322043033 444917 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not poisonous < 1322043105 473936 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322043173 197961 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-166-151.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322043191 294515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right but in the context of ethyl alcohol... < 1322043244 619771 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-188-56.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322043299 640124 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322043367 868018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hi < 1322043377 304576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: < 1322043378 151101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322043481 33593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls logs < 1322043488 966112 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access logs: No such file or directory < 1322043492 13414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322043494 451968 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ x < 1322043511 409039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls share < 1322043512 996169 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :units.dat < 1322043522 72027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls / < 1322043523 969275 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var < 1322043533 550801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION though hackego had logs on it < 1322043556 828567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt < 1322043559 960344 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-23 10:19:19 URL:http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt [53284/53284] -> "2011-11-23-raw.txt" [1] < 1322043561 488650 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322043603 253370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why? < 1322043617 994997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1322043619 982349 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ units \ url \ welcome \ wl \ word \ wtf < 1322043627 929926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/log < 1322043629 891042 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log < 1322043644 738785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so logs are available in /var/irclogs/_esoteric < 1322043646 350236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a weird place to put logs but okay < 1322043656 877629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm "2011-11-23-raw.txt" < 1322043658 950958 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `"2011-11-23-raw.txt"': No such file or directory < 1322043659 826339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bin/log that is < 1322043660 918808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1322043666 596031 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322043668 394184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sheesh calm down I was going to delete it once I was done. < 1322043669 268490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322043672 543646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ... bin/log is a script < 1322043683 791966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log kallisti < 1322043700 114159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322043707 567470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes a while < 1322043711 990848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1322043713 39583 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-22.txt:00:45:46: also def < 1322043716 984281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log kallisti < 1322043718 799580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: def < 1322043722 425853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be faster now < 1322043726 481010 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-22.txt:06:41:40: kallisti: basically the player behind the ship keeps playing for ten seconds and you have to get in range and aim it < 1322043726 659462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cached and so on < 1322044001 836253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044004 88679 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 179; augur 85; 53; pikhq 47; Darth_Cliche 47; pikhq_ 13; sebbu2 7; Slereah_ 3; Jafet 3; copumpkin 3; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; calamari 2; GreaseMonkey 1; kallisti 1; < 1322044050 170847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-22-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044051 389730 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1322044052 542680 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin 610; Jafet 399; GreaseMonkey 357; Madoka-Kaname 303; ineiros 252; derdon 245; DCliche 234; Phantom_Hoover 232; monqy 196; new2net 165; kmc 144; myndz\ 115; derrik 93; pkzip 89; pikhq 73; Darth_Cliche 72; pikhq_ 70; Lymee 53; MSleep 50; ais523 42; augur 42; oerjan 37; Ngevd 36; Phantom__Hoover 31; augur_ 26; 21; sebbu2 15; MDude 11; derrik_ 6; Slereah 3; FireFly 3; aloril 2; Lymia 2; Sgeo 2; Patashu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322044124 174005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what are you measuring? < 1322044128 880517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of joins < 1322044137 230437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first time? < 1322044143 892983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1322044149 834871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :first one is today second is yesterday < 1322044154 937591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322044161 864163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to what timezone? < 1322044168 173729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the... logs < 1322044173 292390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that one is. UTC? < 1322044187 435535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog is in some weird US timezone I know < 1322044323 195338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sleepy and I'm at university and I have a lecture in 1.5 hours < 1322044341 496191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you the giving or receiving partner of this lecture. < 1322044352 835771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a student so... < 1322044361 203187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322044375 156987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually two lectures, each taking two hours < 1322044381 345727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have some kind of weird delusion that some people on this channel are like professors or something. < 1322044386 26950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after each other < 1322044396 497861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Monqy < 1322044422 210512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1322044431 154053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean not really no. < 1322044434 157380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322044521 360946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\w+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044529 234396 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :474; < 1322044532 62088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1322044541 208100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course. < 1322044553 746009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044558 570537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 206; augur 67; 53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322044576 783697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, your code is suffering from UUOC < 1322044595 923743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait PART isn't actually an IRC command is it. < 1322044599 634393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is UUOC < 1322044604 993315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless use of cat < 1322044624 112538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and afaik PART is an irc command, but maybe no one parted? < 1322044695 978636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just use cat because I'm more prone to fuck up if I don't < 1322044695 978792 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sure it is. < 1322044695 978892 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's not a useless use of cat. < 1322044695 979010 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's more readable than using < < 1322044695 979109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt < 1322044695 979206 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 212; augur 67; 53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322044695 979303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, no it isn't < 1322044695 979399 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENOUGH OF THIS < 1322044695 979497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could even just pass it in as an argument to perl < 1322044695 979593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, and it spawns an extra process < 1322044695 979686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sure, I'm no perl expert < 1322044697 530723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, cat is useless unless used interactively to dump a file to your terminal or to *concatenate* files. < 1322044699 607907 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh no! Amidst this paragon of efficiency, this beautifully-optimized log-searching machine, a traitor! < 1322044705 570723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n basically says "loop through lines from files passed as command arguments or stdin" < 1322044726 784477 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I like to read command lines left-to-right. generate-things | do-things-to-things | output-things and so on. < 1322044740 372106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: dude perl is the most optimized of the languages. < 1322044744 647030 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat foo" is a great way to say "generate the contents of this file" < 1322044806 48349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes languages, not implementations) < 1322044806 48570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this conversation is silly :P < 1322044806 48677 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care that it spawns an extra process. If I was worrying about efficiency I'd be doing something else. < 1322044806 48779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's an easier way to say "sort in descending order" than sort {$b <=> $a} @blah < 1322044806 48878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dd if=/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt of=/dev/stdout | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044806 49037 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :127+1 records in \ 127+1 records out \ 65070 bytes (65 kB) copied, 0.008997 s, 7.2 MB/s \ Sgeo 229; augur 67; 53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322044806 888523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, almost :P < 1322044821 847479 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Look, cat is a very standard read-file tool. < 1322044865 540992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dd if=/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt of=/dev/stdout status=noxfer | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044865 541178 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not making things more complicated. Everyone knows what cat means. < 1322044865 541282 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :130+1 records in \ 130+1 records out \ Sgeo 237; augur 67; 53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322044865 541450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1322044865 541549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how this debate is completely ridiculous < 1322044865 541653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322044865 541751 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Vorpal isn't the first person to bring up this annoying point. < 1322044865 541848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dd if=/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt of=/dev/stdout 2>/dev/null | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044865 541947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work < 1322044865 542043 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 237; augur 67; 53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322044865 542142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it has a long grudgeful history < 1322044865 542240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322044868 884503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, indeed < 1322044873 718926 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not as good. < 1322044883 865295 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat reports errors. < 1322044883 865508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, indeed, but sillier :P < 1322044888 606249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway point is: Sgeo is spammy < 1322044896 96602 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < and dd are both sillier. < 1322044905 679644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, < is the cleanest solution < 1322044911 867093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for passing it as argument to perl < 1322044917 801601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover significantly associated with join/part spam my ass :P < 1322044918 189598 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322044922 408699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the point was to prove PH wrong. < 1322044948 113734 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I win. yay. < 1322044948 113895 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you were at least putting it at the front of the command line I *might* believe you. < 1322044948 113963 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322044951 385405 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1322044951 385572 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :` $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044959 342879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, so you avoid "where" in haskell? < 1322044959 342991 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/ $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322044991 934858 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: run: command not found < 1322044993 739663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as where involves arrangement levels of abstraction < 1322044998 621438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the order of composition is the wrong one < 1322044998 995118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this is pipelining data. < 1322045004 909519 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322045007 357269 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 262; augur 67; 53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; glogbackup 14; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1; < 1322045012 822742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (.) < 1322045013 790559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b < 1322045017 266463 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It doesn't matter which order it goes in. < 1322045020 916417 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has the opposite order. < 1322045023 660868 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're both fine. < 1322045023 819680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE. < 1322045027 490505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will never use cat again. < 1322045028 857619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lie) < 1322045030 569906 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that cat is just one more step in the pipeline. < 1322045098 181497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt #wheeeeee < 1322045112 844627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be so fun < 1322045130 213818 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322045132 811583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < worked fine there at the start < 1322045132 856811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected < 1322045132 856994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322045134 854907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322045161 694773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it timeout or something? < 1322045162 765774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, lag < 1322045167 685935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this wlan < 1322045179 862644 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's the point in making a special-case for the "generating something" part of a pipeline when the "something" happens to be the contents of exactly one file? < 1322045182 590562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, probably < 1322045205 788040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt < 1322045206 591071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was 0 files, or 2 files, you would say to use echo or cat. Why make a special case for 1? < 1322045212 312141 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -n -e /:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j} /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-18-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-19-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-20-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-21-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-22-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-23-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-24-raw.txt < 1322045215 500934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops < 1322045233 881818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt > donttimeoutplz.sh < 1322045236 524502 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322045246 177055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`donttimeoutplz.sh < 1322045247 698773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322045248 101557 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: donttimeoutplz.sh: not found < 1322045257 316278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./donttimeoutplz.sh < 1322045257 316388 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./donttimeoutplz.sh: Permission denied < 1322045259 609005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x ./donttimeoutplz.sh < 1322045267 138554 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322045268 400621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./donttimeoutplz.sh < 1322045279 41240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how this will fix anything < 1322045295 982528 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​./donttimeoutplz.sh: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ ./donttimeoutplz.sh: line 1: `perl -n -e /:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j} /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-18-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-19-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-20-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-21-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-22-raw.txt < 1322045295 982580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1322045295 982624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm donttimeoutplz.sh < 1322045295 982667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you bash < 1322045296 768096 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322045299 217325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your escaping bullshit. < 1322045309 753182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322045313 282812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1322045313 328078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnh this connection... < 1322045359 869925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay reconnected to bouncer again, hopefully more stable < 1322045385 736158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway you want to know who has most JOIN, PART, QUIT over all the history? < 1322045385 831068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322045399 713771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322045411 476617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I can do that in a bit if sshing home is stable enough < 1322045418 170901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hi; echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt >> bin/hi > 1322045603 93171 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322045629 293098 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322045650 525066 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322045657 300835 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322045657 663391 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1322045669 660305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott and elliott_ and tusho and other aliases he used are all merged into elliott in the logs_na view < 1322045676 353730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar for other known cases < 1322045695 768141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322045707 134396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that doesn't tell you much really < 1322045714 8516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I was just curious < 1322045716 808843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/hi < 1322045718 893131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, elliott has been active for long < 1322045739 939382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Sgeo is obviously a scoundrel. < 1322045760 321141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo has been around for ages too < 1322045764 742328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :let see count of lines < 1322045773 14067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> select nick,COUNT(*) from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) group by nick order by count desc limit 4; < 1322045773 209231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : nick | count < 1322045773 209427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------+-------- < 1322045773 209544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott | 690342 < 1322045773 209662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal | 284600 < 1322045773 410475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 | 144113 < 1322045774 423427 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322045777 398366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan | 100266 < 1322045803 44277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has "been around" but not consistently. < 1322045803 44433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I'm still second in number of lines said < 1322045806 982146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you combine all of my nicks together I am probably creeping forward. < 1322045817 837154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, don't know which ones you have < 1322045828 736958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not going to edit that view definition over laggy ssh < 1322045838 209157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is done by regexp < 1322045859 355349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread, CakeProphet, and kallisti. both in acsending chronological order and in descending order of obnoxiousness. < 1322045866 585230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of slow < 1322045874 879937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a JOIN on a nick-mapping table would be better < 1322045879 15534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> select count(*) from irc.logs where nick = 'kallisti' and type in (0,1); < 1322045880 421061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : count < 1322045880 421258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :------- < 1322045880 421367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1365 < 1322045887 327392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh you are CakeProphet, right < 1322045892 303589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322045943 791077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon it will sink in. < 1322045943 791285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> select count(*) from irc.logs where nick in ('kallisti', 'CakeProphet', 'SevenInchBread') and type in (0,1); < 1322045943 791395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : count < 1322045943 791501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :------- < 1322045943 791605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 55136 < 1322045943 791709 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably make a nick-merging thing too some day for my logdb. < 1322045943 791819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322045943 791939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very much actually. < 1322045943 792047 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select n.name, count(*) from event e join nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.type in ('join', 'part', 'quit') and e.target = (select id from target where name = '#esoteric') group by n.name order by count desc limit 3; < 1322045943 792155 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : name | count < 1322045943 792258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------+------- < 1322045943 792358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : augur | 7271 < 1322045943 792460 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan | 5367 < 1322045943 792560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1322045943 792663 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 | 4133 < 1322045943 792840 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-merged ones lie so much. < 1322045943 792948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the regexp solution is not very fast. It does handle stuff like Sgeo|foo for all foo < 1322045966 880069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, event e? < 1322045977 943486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1322045990 165681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that. I fail at parsing that sql line. < 1322046002 149996 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM MEEEE < 1322046009 446183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'event' is the table, 'e' is the name for it so that one can write e.foo. < 1322046018 276203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322046028 482613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so, you changed your script significantly then? < 1322046043 308736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you could have avoided this if you hadn't joined/parted/quit quite so much in the past. < 1322046047 989938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you logging straight to sql now? < 1322046048 171199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: shame on you < 1322046073 385032 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: diaf < 1322046077 961269 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, this is not the esolog script, this is my "all logs in a db for searching" one, which was reasonably different even originally. < 1322046088 234018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322046106 228660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sadly I haven't managed to make myself do the search frontend, so mostly I just grep the raw logs instead. :p < 1322046118 208478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322046124 626865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you used the db just there? < 1322046129 378129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "do I actually fuck?" "digging in a fountain" uh.... < 1322046131 303736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, sql for searching is fine < 1322046160 877898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm not very good with IRC lingo or whatever that is. < 1322046174 912601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, data interpolation address float < 1322046182 242865 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Vorpal said < 1322046191 757813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322046200 479029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, only if you have fractional memory addressing < 1322046206 62232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like < 1322046210 768007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dessert drink? < 1322046234 266559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I mean *2.94 to address the bit on address 2.94 < 1322046258 326030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm < 1322046267 469071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it obviously interpolate if required, depending on the resolution of you memory banks < 1322046268 365704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so confused right now. what does this have to do with what I said. < 1322046281 82615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, diaf... < 1322046292 931176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur said that < 1322046293 428633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1322046299 683811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1322046299 684033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1322046301 33276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, "die in a fire" < 1322046303 748414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what he means < 1322046308 91844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322046308 883050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322046316 948493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I just invented a different interpretation... < 1322046325 222089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :jokes aren't funny when you explain them < 1322046335 483550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES AREN'T FUNNY < 1322046356 614355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I kind of thought it was made up but then it got all consensus'd and I was confused. < 1322046367 422534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :groupthink help < 1322046368 820367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, obviously augur has humour. < 1322046379 732539 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SQL's fine for counting things and such, but after separating "targets" (read (network,channel) tuples) into a different table, and network names to a third one, it's quite faster to write "grep foo logs/freenode/#esoteric/*" than "psql" + "select n.name, e.text from logs.event e join logs.nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.target = (select id from logs.target t join logs.network w on t.network = w.id where w.name = 'freenode' and t.name = '#esoteric') and < 1322046382 752983 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : e.text like '%foo';" < 1322046393 508016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1322046400 84775 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bought a bag of humour the other day < 1322046405 825550 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :havent gotten even halfway through it yet < 1322046410 533663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can be /way/ faster to do in sql, Unless it is way slower < 1322046441 333584 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been into turkish humour lately < 1322046448 584774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that is < 1322046462 569577 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be a bit too saccharine but its soooo good < 1322046485 432347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles saccharine < 1322046491 272007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sugar < 1322046503 975730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322046503 975942 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1322046503 976054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322046503 976171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a made up word < 1322046503 976277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Saccharin[2] is an artificial sweetener." < 1322046506 581679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322046509 634732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322046529 435256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen saccharine or something similar used as like an adjective form of saccharide < 1322046531 446449 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. cloying, saccharine, syrupy, treacly -- (overly sweet) < 1322046532 445744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to basically mean sugary < 1322046540 69391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322046542 733424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that < 1322046555 617155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I guess the interpolated float addressing is kind of how 1D texture units work on GPUs < 1322046568 206124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1322046571 924313 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :saccharine also has a metaphorical sense < 1322046581 752646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, meaning? < 1322046604 415198 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentimental, cute, sweet, to an obnoxious degree < 1322046607 183377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322046617 398663 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twee < 1322046639 932432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, you should say 2H-1λ⁶,2-benzothiazol-1,1,3-trione instead < 1322046642 4150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322046651 868 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i shouldnt < 1322046654 828885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you should < 1322046666 493244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the IUPAC name for saccharin < 1322046677 895841 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322046679 623376 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD NIGHT < 1322046682 684161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1322046723 125384 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"saccharine, adj. and n. Etymology: Formed as saccharin n. + -ine suffix. Compare French saccharin. .. saccharin, n. Etymology: < medieval Latin sacchar-um or Greek σάκχαρον , σάκχαρ(ι) sugar + -in suffix. 1. The anhydride of saccharic acid. (Discovered and named by Péligot 1880.) 2. An intensely sweet substance obtained from coal tar, o-sulphobenzoic imide, C7H5NO3S, used in minute quantities for sweetening the food or drink of persons to whom < 1322046726 109258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : sugar is injurious. ..." < 1322046872 680835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Swiftly and cloying-sweet as saccharine In Governmental tea, a week had melted. G. Frankau, One of Them xvii. 128, 1918." The quotations are always so delightfully random. < 1322046904 251685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that from? < 1322046906 915622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like fungot < 1322046907 111829 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in a good story, they function in an undiagnosable way? for instance, i've recently picked up a hobby, and it's been super great! i signed up for an english as a second language course. < 1322046910 403347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1322046911 808741 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1322046918 61184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1322046918 61299 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1322046952 299390 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED. Or if you mean the quotation itself, it's from G. Frankau's One of Them, like it says. < 1322046961 526540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322046969 993637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The sword alone? < 1322047021 480457 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! < 1322047021 480717 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot. < 1322047021 480822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it actually stopped there at the end. < 1322047021 480924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever book that is < 1322047021 481022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah the connection < 1322047021 481122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322047167 486497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first Aalto SCI November Fest, held on 24th November, attracted nearly 200 researchers from all our Departments. Below a list of the research posters which were in the exhibition at Saha building." < 1322047179 417637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they've written this newspost in past tense, even though the actual thing is tomorrow. < 1322047194 911541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322047225 662207 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if they'd retcon the numbers if significantly fewer-than-registered people happened to actually come there. < 1322047267 798783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322047648 320603 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322048168 986545 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbackup: Uhhh. < 1322048203 473451 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it thought "better safe than sorry". < 1322048262 258946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322048383 569026 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1322048448 391406 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322048455 429214 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPS tracking is being confusing. There's a no-location "Activity: A valid tax identification number or deferment number is required for clearance" at 6:53AM; then after that, in sequence, 7:25AM "Arrival Scan" in Helsinki; 7:57AM "Arrival Scan" in Vantaa (neighbour town); and 9:44AM "Import Scan" again in Helsinki. And then nothing else during the day, except the ETA is still listed as "By End of Day" today. < 1322048556 517371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1322048599 204373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bbl until late evening. Cya < 1322048745 342782 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322048809 472788 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322050947 795058 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322051601 392630 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1322051607 438787 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322051632 549760 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322051667 89382 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322051667 187604 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1322051725 820669 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322051970 467721 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322052001 336467 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322052345 562122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322052430 994505 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322052907 571167 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322053065 859889 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322053186 909651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322053644 728163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322053690 278149 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everyone, lambdabot. < 1322053690 278363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322054625 643844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322054764 127286 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322055367 11510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322055445 37671 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322055452 103953 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-209-28.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322055503 825666 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-238.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322055681 835034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322055870 902391 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322056275 452074 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322057114 40219 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322057138 739678 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric > 1322058593 101970 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322058630 571943 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322058630 626017 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322058779 822048 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1322059171 794746 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322060919 803941 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322060944 804664 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322061633 936520 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322061692 535112 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322061712 399431 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322063340 838997 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322064802 573657 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this thing that has numbers net to nicks and got me pinged like fifty times < 1322065040 470398 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-23 12:26:24 ( kallisti) `run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322066428 626823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is this thing that has numbers net to nicks and got me pinged like fifty times <-- how can you look in the log and see those lines but not the lines just before them? < 1322066437 802988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1322066506 949515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ? < 1322066584 572773 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Away logs ofttimes show only the lines containing the pings < 1322066593 484550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, those < 1322066594 729691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322066615 986437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have full logs personally, no special away log at all < 1322066660 569155 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irssi auto-prints an away log upon unawaying < 1322066676 897269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless one has it disabled, presumably < 1322066760 115019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :[download] 6.8% of 1.31G at 368.22k/s ETA 57:54 <-- whyyyyy!? The video is 38 minutes. I can't watch it while downloading. Why can't youtube max out my bw... < 1322067152 757264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322067281 318985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:35:07: @src ap < 1322067281 487220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:35:07: ap = liftM2 id < 1322067281 577353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:35:13: oh Applicative, right < 1322067281 691352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322067283 190757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Monad < 1322068369 860241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:17:24: Is that the requirements for *citizenship*? < 1322068369 953183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:17:40: yes < 1322068369 953368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:17:51: God damn. < 1322068386 507837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I think you'll find that most countries want you to have an in-demand skill or a lot of money to move there? < 1322068425 743475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:39:31: oerjan: wtf, so you've alternated between the same two prime ministers for the last 14 years or so? < 1322068432 650111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We alternated between the same one for ten years. < 1322068432 893628 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322068556 877971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:02:24: I'm kind of confused about Barack Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize < 1322068556 931558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:02:34: did he get it because... he wasn't George Bush? < 1322068565 634642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't everyone believe he was going to shut down Guantanamo at the time? < 1322068570 916878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like... not punching someone any more. < 1322068573 995985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sort of peacey? < 1322068613 65699 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322068619 309272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_: I think you'll find that most countries want you to have an in-demand skill or a lot of money to move there? <-- What about Schegen? (however that is spelled) < 1322068660 607809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, which requires you to get into an EU country, which will require... an in-demand skill, or a lot of money. < 1322068669 353049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322068678 190492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi doom 3 source code! < 1322068686 753136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess in this context the Schegen area counts pretty much as one country < 1322068696 276393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm when was that released? < 1322068698 895384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :today? < 1322068700 120909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :today < 1322068703 398945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1322068707 33074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: got a link? < 1322068711 59470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeh, 3 github notifications < 1322068713 990716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322068718 485102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the other fork doesn't realise i'm collaborating < 1322068721 631181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl < 1322068732 637472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i hope the other fork doesn't realise i'm collaborating <-- huh? < 1322068740 827276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i reported the same bug to two forks :) < 1322068744 345864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the same project < 1322068744 833062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322068785 919504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm originally released 2004, kind of semi-modern then < 1322068801 504470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the most HD shadows. < 1322068858 973527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I would say I would prefer my ugly hack to adding the ScopedTypeVariable extension." < 1322068861 468583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on! < 1322068896 289210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh funny physics bug in skyrim, you can get thrown upwards sometimes when being killed by giants at a tremendous speed. < 1322068918 207123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not so much tremendous speed, as lack of slowing down. < 1322068998 514926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you will enjoy this video, unless you already seen the bug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQihK62XsrM < 1322069027 169473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the bug happens in the last third or so of the video) < 1322069169 497358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i think i'll abandon this fork, the other one looks better < 1322069358 684155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rheh < 1322069363 564751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/rheh/heh/ < 1322069385 748421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it wouldn't be a havok game without silly physics bugs :P < 1322069394 601692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I'm pretty sure I read that it uses havok) < 1322069661 813397 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322069809 260830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know what license the OpenCL headers are for? < 1322069936 877388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322069964 512697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw really stupid thing when dealing with chests in game: R is put in chest when viewing your inventory. What do you think R is when viewing the chest inventory? < 1322069970 710191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hint: it is /not/ take item < 1322069988 949572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it "destroy with fire". < 1322069992 930188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "take everything" < 1322070026 426733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just annoying when you are putting a lot of loot into a chest in your house. Chests have no weight limits either. So you can end up with a few thousand kilos. E is take single item < 1322070031 103222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in inventory view e is use < 1322070034 595570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeeeah < 1322070046 771261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just the worst mapping ever < 1322070052 662878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw click is use too in inventory < 1322070108 566560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, AII has the best mapping. < 1322070244 146816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and is not an RPG < 1322070253 658190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. That's two improvements already! < 1322070277 80535 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322070472 900193 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322070487 903110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :( < 1322070538 44345 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322070933 411451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1322070942 361543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1322071011 895932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:51:25: * oerjan realizes that nearly half his life is _after_ the soviet union dissolved < 1322071020 629302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that all his life etc. :P < 1322071170 988893 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-209-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some countries are dickier about it than others. < 1322071193 426226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :About what < 1322071198 387126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-209-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immigration. < 1322071207 301423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1322071313 72126 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322071388 155414 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322072049 655415 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322072138 932051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:29:00: elliott is still trying to improve his funge98 in haskell interpreter < 1322072147 209972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF NOT FOR A CERTAIN OTHER PERSON COUGH COUGH COUGH < 1322072149 157182 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322072281 904766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322072382 373154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:36:16: kallisti, your code is suffering from UUOC < 1322072389 551949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your line is suffering from UUOUUOC < 1322072411 163736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38:15: Vorpal: That's not a useless use of cat. < 1322072411 253763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38:15: Vorpal: It's more readable than using < < 1322072411 253982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38:15: shachaf, no it isn't < 1322072411 254082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1322072424 109992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38:15: shachaf, and it spawns an extra process < 1322072424 163087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should see how many processes shell scripts spawn. < 1322072453 202830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I was going to continue yelling at Vorpal through the logs but shachaf pretty much said everything. < 1322072513 327701 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322072549 928955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:32: well < worked fine there at the start < 1322072549 982682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:32: as expected < 1322072557 177857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure not every shell even supports that. < 1322072580 376924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/hi < 1322072606 246319 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322072904 334858 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye hi < 1322072911 306769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego??? < 1322072911 694448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322072916 114900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hackegooooooo < 1322072921 239389 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322072924 345191 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego... < 1322074073 32825 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322074178 80238 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322074535 187433 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322074553 49644 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322074738 114976 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322074777 993781 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aha, another sensible person. < 1322074783 740956 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this channel. Go figure. < 1322074787 223115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote opinions < 1322074794 710231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1322074796 189638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote opinion < 1322074801 5976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1322074804 587397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo isn't even here. < 1322074822 965458 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How quickly they forget. < 1322074835 714789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 381 I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything Yes. And the best thing is: it is the correct opinion. < 1322074837 785184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1322074853 308481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has even heard the "but it's another process thing!" before. < 1322074861 389887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() takes literally minutes. < 1322074863 869547 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dude, like, efficiency, you know? < 1322074877 999519 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of the constant factors. < 1322074895 618734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Personally I write all my shell pipelines in assembly. < 1322074905 136274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mov eax, ebx) | ret < 1322075079 967104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Function type A -> B in some sense is not very good. Though functions are first class values, one often cannot freely operate them due to efficiency problems. You can't apply too many transformations (A -> B) -> (C -> D), at some point you have to compute a value. < 1322075080 57349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously this is due to the non-strict nature of -> ." < 1322075090 626566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: See, all we need is to make | strict. < 1322075129 37436 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322075205 205529 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322075468 598713 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1322075473 549274 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, stackoverflow. < 1322075490 116277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION occasionally reads stackoverflow questions just to gawp at them. < 1322075503 761280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not the most productive thing, but I can't quite give up on seeing people ask for "alternatives to ->". < 1322075508 880000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, stricter ones. < 1322076113 38574 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322076167 76849 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322076208 97378 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To be fair, -> isn't -- actually, I can't think of any way to be fair. < 1322076234 778385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what they're saying is that (a . b . c . d) builds up too many thunks, and they want to "force" it somehow. By... deepseqing the function, I guess? < 1322076258 39344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose TECHNICALLY every function has a finite domain if we're talking about real computers! < 1322076305 93366 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Operationalist. < 1322076313 470676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck naw < 1322076903 65099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god i watched father ted too much and now i think in an irish accent < 1322077249 467244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322078045 211604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1322078050 795320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322078873 42707 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322078988 275320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322079483 660697 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1322079496 356514 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1322079737 205186 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322079891 457409 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322079893 261493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322080146 213425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_%C3%93_hEochag%C3%A1in < 1322080153 620458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hEochagáin. < 1322080158 800966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h...Eochagáin. < 1322080292 628097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agáin with those Eochs. < 1322080313 63616 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322080321 446415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *hEoch. < 1322080322 834772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1322080372 248846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322080913 96370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322080967 336989 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322081275 367668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322081316 333077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id < 1322081317 219845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322081317 533083 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322081320 311132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1322081329 690590 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1322081339 182281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits the joyful logreading. < 1322081345 206613 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1322081596 253406 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i sense a lot of nick pinging < 1322081654 684761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PING < 1322081657 83143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PING PING PING PING PING < 1322081670 493172 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :P P P PINGU < 1322081685 897579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copyright : (c) Conal Elliott 2008" -- sounds like some sort of a subspecies of elliott. You know, the Conal Elliott and the Speral Elliott, and so on. < 1322081712 470979 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The difference between them is that only one usually has a point.) < 1322081723 393975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha, fizzie doesn't know who Conal is. < 1322081726 29843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :DDDDDDddddddd < 1322081761 71220 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_or_ he knows perfectly. it remains to be seen. < 1322081812 884945 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know what I've googled, now. But it doesn't diminish the immediate "conical elliott" vibe. < 1322081925 781826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322081961 886675 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Elliptal Elliott has no point, but at least he is brief about it < 1322081988 876386 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322081994 834298 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1322081996 230482 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322082009 622366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the real elliott is like that, but without the briefness < 1322082050 612066 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your words not mine < 1322082119 222106 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf, cat is useless unless used interactively to dump a file to your terminal or to *concatenate* files. < 1322082129 495656 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like return in a monad, come to think of it < 1322082163 410086 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google oleg monad unix < 1322082164 70907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/monadic-shell.html < 1322082164 451408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: UNIX pipes as IO monads < 1322082179 309793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with all these logspeaking people being absent < 1322082187 380637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I've used "foo | cat" sometimes when 'foo' does different things depending on whether the output fd isatty(3) or not. < 1322082190 138168 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well naturally < 1322082204 92037 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally? < 1322082227 223518 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it _is_ return in a monad. < 1322082234 324915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : what's with all these logspeaking people being absent < 1322082249 14094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's what I thought about you when I was being passive-aggressive to you! < 1322082265 53193 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, there's sometimes a legitimate excuse to use < instead of cat. < 1322082270 739691 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mesg y < /dev/pts/4 < 1322082284 391855 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha ha. ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, < 1322082287 359604 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1322082287 537415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: For once I think zzo is right about this; (>=>) is more correct than (>>=). < 1322082300 884398 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fibonacci is _so_ out) < 1322082302 637272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also, I use < all the time, just not in pipelines. < 1322082310 759460 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, sure. < 1322082321 496176 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like the way you can do mesg < < 1322082384 870904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did that with /dev/pts/0. What did I do? < 1322082392 105109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, I see. < 1322082402 35032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's lovely. < 1322082449 425841 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, I just pasted that random command you typed in IRC into my shell and there was no output. What did I just do to mny computer?" < 1322082495 978485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, exactly. < 1322082515 975974 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mesg < 1322082534 276164 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elliott < 1322082541 486746 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1322082544 338068 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless bot. < 1322082545 695018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is sleeping. < 1322082556 224321 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is dead. < 1322082575 64486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it will rise once more. < 1322082577 181932 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should turn IRC (by royal decree, for example) into one of those talk-like places where you can see everyone's typings in the realest time. < 1322082582 145071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe a few times after that. < 1322082598 227065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1322082612 330709 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://piratepad.net/ouKPdvpeCw < 1322082617 686756 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone go there. < 1322082640 411348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not the IRC. :/ < 1322082655 320392 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I would just copy-paste everything in. < 1322082739 954851 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1322082953 156241 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322083137 271301 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322083234 749168 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I would say I would prefer my ugly hack to adding the ScopedTypeVariable extension." < 1322083252 576986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it isn't even the "rely on monomorphism" thing < 1322083284 544953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it's the one from before, i was on my way to find a prettier way without ScopedTypeVariables before you said to use it < 1322083297 336877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the https://github.com/jkarlson/OpenCLWrappers/blob/master/System/OpenCL/Wrappers/Utils.hs#L61 one :P < 1322083301 57011 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's ugly even if you don't want that extension < 1322083302 620806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easy to do with a "where" < 1322083308 694575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lambda monomorphism < 1322083317 528472 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322083342 140322 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's the one i remembered < 1322083390 503017 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea was something like... < 1322083482 863922 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1322083562 839142 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm the monad makes using asTypeOf a bit ugly < 1322083644 963685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um? < 1322083685 36307 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peekManyInfo f x size = do a <- withForeignPtr x (\y -> (peekArray ( div (fromIntegral size) $ sizeOf c) $ castPtr y); return . f $ a `asTypeOf` [c] where c = undefined < 1322083696 135530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322083709 590140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't think that works < 1322083716 563649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: c is just :: forall a. (Bits a) => a < 1322083719 223435 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm duh < 1322083745 588088 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322083748 292858 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic that explains why he didn't use just let c = undefined < 1322083833 502413 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1322083881 241556 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i just gave a simpler proof to a problem that was proven 7 years ago, and which had been open for about 7 at that point < 1322083905 708706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: we need zeilberger in here to flamewar with you over that < 1322083925 317883 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only known proof was done using kolmogorov complexity, and the proof itself was also very kolmogorov complicated. < 1322083929 85628 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322083932 216602 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean < 1322083953 338959 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible for a problem to go from closed to open? < 1322083974 428137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if the proof was wrong, you could say that < 1322083974 517478 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from apparently closed to open, at least < 1322083977 655005 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322083990 19040 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that happened with the four color theorem at one point < 1322083998 567631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: zeilberger doesn't like people proving things twice :P < 1322084025 380858 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous really < 1322084033 496101 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucking retarded, yes < 1322084045 250630 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new proofs often open new avenues < 1322084053 303790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first proof is always ridiculously long and stupid < 1322084098 342246 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basic research eventually catches up and it becomes simple < 1322084105 641302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1322084113 440456 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for example there is the elementary proof of the prime number theorem, where a finitist like zeilberger would be unlikely to even accept the original as a proof, i suspect < 1322084116 764417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a source < 1322084123 147399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well he doesn't object to people proving things once :P < 1322084123 905976 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what oerjan said is true as well, but that's not really the main reason. < 1322084126 338673 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i said is. < 1322084143 39786 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um that was a new proof of an old theorem < 1322084157 454839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i meant, he wouldn't consider it proved in the first place... < 1322084172 229735 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322084201 602684 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a chick at the uni who's doing a comparison of two techniques for proving the prime number theorem < 1322084248 212716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, where is this. oerjan: anyway, he was basically saying it was pointless, for reasons of proof irrelevance, and only interesting as a curiosity, because the complexity of a proof only matters to humans. and saying that nobody would get excited about a particularly elegant proof that (two small numbers equal another number when multiplied, or something like that, I forget) < 1322084255 511654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: /me does not endorse zeilberger's opinions < 1322084273 280563 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322084351 357768 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322084377 198194 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to think that hack might actually be the most elegant way to do it without ScopedTypeVariables < 1322084387 590873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i suspect it is mostly because in the paradigm zeilberger would like everyone to work in, humans wouldn't prove things at all :P < 1322084405 97255 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322084406 984259 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322084456 332197 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322084503 971663 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i doubt he'd accept MonadRec either :P < 1322084515 45726 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatsitcalled < 1322084520 304356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoRec or something < 1322084539 930863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm probably just going to help the other fork instead because that guy has his shit together and doesn't use unsafeCoerce < 1322084552 720193 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also our paper was accepted into LATA, yays < 1322084566 988875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah but do you have an oerjan number yet < 1322084590 849496 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322084591 923917 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1322084600 160441 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i don't know what i tis < 1322084601 658501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it is < 1322084609 221900 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322084613 923588 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at most 8 ofc < 1322084637 706214 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since oerjan has the same erds number as me iirc < 1322084662 125696 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peekManyInfo f x size = case undefined of c -> do a <- withForeignPtr x (\y -> (peekArray ( div (fromIntegral size) $ sizeOf c) $ castPtr y); return . f $ a `asTypeOf` [c] < 1322084712 40421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: gimme a name of someone you've collaborated with or w/e, I want to see if AMS' collaboration disatnce thing works :P < 1322084735 207615 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alf birger rustad < 1322084756 17728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No authors matched "Alf Birger Rustad" (Best format is: last name, first initial*) < 1322084756 70972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No authors matched "Oerjan Johannsen" (Best format is: last name, first initial*) < 1322084760 682625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE I'LL USE YOUR STUPID FORMAT < 1322084774 546974 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could at least spell it correclty < 1322084788 453069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh what's the pslleing < 1322084792 359496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean with the fancy O < 1322084793 4184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322084796 74312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We found more than one author that matched "Johannsen Ø" Please select an author from the list below. < 1322084797 122554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list is: < 1322084799 665769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :johannsen, daniel < 1322084803 219310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :johannsen, david a < 1322084805 89591 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not that, i never got that to work either :P < 1322084805 347582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1322084807 750568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :johannsen, klaus < 1322084809 320925 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322084810 840870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] :P < 1322084815 217376 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna see if i'm there < 1322084816 700321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah thx /whois < 1322084818 683426 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow doubt it < 1322084820 369566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that was my next step < 1322084828 756634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway they don't know who rustad a is < 1322084837 71647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme someone more MAINSTREAM that someone you know has collaborated with or someone!! < 1322084839 875709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just < 1322084842 161932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try erdos < 1322084843 869668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the comma is not optional < 1322084854 790732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dur < 1322084865 547241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No authors matched "Johansen, Oerjan" (Best format is: last name, first initial*) < 1322084875 664993 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is the *, i think. < 1322084884 298799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No authors matched "Johansen, Ørjan" (Best format is: last name, first initial*) < 1322084885 474768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1322084888 261732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1322084893 996144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ørjan Johansen coauthored with Johan F. Aarnes MR2174240 (2006m:28017) < 1322084894 163571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johan F. Aarnes coauthored with Richard V. Kadison MR0240633 (39 #1980) < 1322084894 216964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Richard V. Kadison coauthored with Jacques Dixmier MR1614553 (99k:01056) < 1322084894 217114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jacques Dixmier coauthored with Paul Erdős1 MR0909556 (89a:11040) < 1322084899 225966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that correct? < 1322084906 802923 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rings a bell :P < 1322084943 273000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now the problem is, i don't know what i did to make that work :P < 1322084955 515249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha i got you < 1322084969 931785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sorry, you and oerjan aren't connected according to this thing < 1322084993 952804 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it show a connection from me to Erds? am i even there? < 1322084996 331714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw you're #1 google result for oerjan < 1322085008 744766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nope. < 1322085017 812272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it may be some other Lastname, F* it matches < 1322085021 749779 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i believe using oe is rather quaint these days < 1322085023 597128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it doesn't accept Lastname, Firstname for you. < 1322085045 349770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately it's your account on the wrong wiki :D < 1322085089 225468 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322085095 691802 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i get something entirely different with esolang no. 3 and wp no. 4 < 1322085108 857169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it still you at #1? :P < 1322085134 372289 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's sometone unknown who owns oerjan.com < 1322085137 274358 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-t < 1322085177 319590 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322085186 738491 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, iirc i used Johansen, O* to search with. unless Ø* actually works which i doubt. < 1322085218 145251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johansen, Ø* works but Johansen, Ørjan doesn't. < 1322085238 963010 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway have you collaborated with more than one person? otherwise just let elliott look up that person. < 1322085299 180435 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah actually i came up with that like 5 seconds ago < 1322085310 14841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a certain five seconds after oerjan did < 1322085320 5245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MR Collaboration Distance = 6 < 1322085320 231524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ørjan Johansen coauthored with Johan F. Aarnes MR2174240 (2006m:28017) < 1322085320 284406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johan F. Aarnes coauthored with Richard V. Kadison MR0240633 (39 #1980) < 1322085320 284555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Richard V. Kadison coauthored with András Hajnal MR1614553 (99k:01056) < 1322085320 284654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :András Hajnal coauthored with Saharon Shelah MR0357194 (50 #9662) < 1322085321 15655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saharon Shelah coauthored with Manfred Droste MR0804485 (87d:20055) < 1322085323 132842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manfred Droste coauthored with Jarkko Kari MR2255549 (2007i:68060) < 1322085326 936435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol has oerjan number of at most 7 < 1322085340 600721 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronistically, yesterday ken regan over at godel's lost letter confused me with a different Ørjan Johansen after looking me up on twitter (which i don't use) < 1322085359 189322 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are apparently 3 of them < 1322085365 418904 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least) < 1322085384 148949 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather large oerjan number : / < 1322085393 801822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: better get collaboratin' with him < 1322085402 882678 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: at least it didn't go all the way to erdos < 1322085462 289222 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh if your number is 4 then presumably that's not your path to erdős either < 1322085480 837344 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just one guy with erds number 2 in our uni that i know of, and even using him i'd only get 7 :/ < 1322085506 449847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never written a paper, with or without a co-author < 1322085508 596843 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1322085512 884382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: note that it apparently can't find your erdos path :P < 1322085522 488275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322085524 518447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't find you at all ofc < 1322085530 172148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just try JARKKO'S < 1322085534 206030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1322085535 617149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1322085536 526119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :add one < 1322085542 865572 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 = 4 < 1322085545 7522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jarkko Kari coauthored with Cristopher Moore MR1890808 (2003b:68121) < 1322085545 60588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cristopher Moore coauthored with Leonard J. Schulman MR2291004 < 1322085545 60783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leonard J. Schulman coauthored with Paul Erdős1 MR1289067 (95e:52025) < 1322085545 897679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322085563 233735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would you come out of RETIREMENT to collaborate with oklopol, pls say yes < 1322085584 470536 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sidles away < 1322085594 430871 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my colleague made this esolang thingie, maybe oerjan could prove it tc < 1322085629 366573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'LL JUST HAVE TO WRITE FANFICTION ABOUT IT THEN < 1322085633 165464 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we could publish it in silly computational universality magazine < 1322085686 927649 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the words "maybe you should publish this" has been shown to have a strong negative effect on my motivation (see :()^ tcness instance) < 1322085692 600961 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1322085704 532094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: who said that again :P < 1322085706 90135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he already did fibonacci, but we haven't been able to do general lambdas yet < 1322085706 822985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it me < 1322085712 518247 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ais523 < 1322085726 334636 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::()^ as a subset of underload? < 1322085726 722071 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not those exact words < 1322085729 139239 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322085730 535782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah < 1322085779 697964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you explain it to me so i can publish it? < 1322085796 259399 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1322085799 685393 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1322085802 25153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1322085807 44328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#Underload_minimization < 1322085811 432965 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's on the wiki < 1322085818 483028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: iterate down to "Removal of ! from :!()^ programs" < 1322085830 57279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: by iterate i mean... read < 1322085847 482014 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg ima be a famous < 1322085868 277753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i love that implementation of ~ < 1322085869 903607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so ugly :D < 1322085883 384910 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1322085918 609559 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also elegant, it uses a subroutine for doing (x)~ with a fixed (but arbitrary) x, twice. < 1322085968 482789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322085971 712186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/mkc6y/dae_secretly_want_to_see_the_entire_global/ < 1322085980 459569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regret reading this; everyone else can regret it too. < 1322086003 370962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dae secretly want to see the entire global marshmallow industry start doing intensive charity work < 1322086005 425625 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they can regret something else if they want to < 1322086021 90550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "EDIT: Thank all of you for the massive amount of data I have collected in this psych experiment on herd mentality. My professor will be pleased. Again thank you!" < 1322086024 358292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, marshmallows for EVERYTHING. < 1322086030 25836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that was pretty funny. < 1322086081 947867 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The most impressive thing about this thread is how everyone who sides with op is getting downvoted. People seem so afraid of change that they're willingly accept every single shit that's going wrong in the world, if only it does not get worse. Can you imagine the power you give the "1%" like its called so eagerly today with this attitude?" < 1322086092 654819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even understand infrastructure. < 1322086108 107422 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is that the "Let's destroy the world economy" thread? < 1322086112 325934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322086153 225612 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On second thoughts, that thread seems to rely on people not understanding how... not fragile, but crucial, the global economy is to their survival. < 1322086203 48619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I publicly hope it will. The alternative is far worse." Billions will die but AT LEAST THE BANKS WILL BE GONE. < 1322086208 229475 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322086233 43265 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of my friends wwould die rather quickly, they need medicine to live < 1322086253 709915 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's Phantom_Hoover. < 1322086260 954374 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you see my exciting new programming language? < 1322086272 664866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE < 1322086274 892191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322086283 79135 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322086287 399491 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaps at shachaf, brick in hand. < 1322086306 233074 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, you live in New York, right? < 1322086328 245532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ~a billion miles from the nearest industrial farm? < 1322086329 172459 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reference implementation: $ tr '12345678' '[]<>-+,.' | bf < 1322086354 495217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slams brick into shachaf's head, delicately catches brain from other side. < 1322086368 900554 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes to the NY thing, I don't know where farms are < 1322086371 453762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION — OK no that's too far. < 1322086385 869606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I will have to survive on, like, sheep.) < 1322086433 276747 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322086435 443457 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that I could not possibly buy enough nonperishables to survive for a decent amount of time, if I thought that something might happen? < 1322086468 234112 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, not if everyone else is thinking the same thing < 1322086474 214907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well obviously you'd just start eating dirt until you died, so I suppose you'd at least die happy. < 1322086494 984876 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322086498 303197 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you get happy from eating dirt? < 1322086507 347469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo would. < 1322086514 708370 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1322086522 839336 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would? < 1322086548 871111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's everywhere and you just shove a clod of it into your mouth. < 1322086557 757857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was your perfect food. < 1322086567 724244 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322086589 473765 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is if you're an earthworm < 1322086615 295454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, no, earthworms at least aim for the detritus layer. < 1322086621 533094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo would just take any old dirt. < 1322086697 100808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws shachaf's brain into elliott's head. < 1322086708 311386 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh. < 1322086712 351029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, you're creating a monster! < 1322086714 725787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You have to change nicks so I can become you now. < 1322086718 319678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover eats the brains of people who make brainfuck derivatives < 1322086734 866413 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually he will have enough brains to make the ULTIMATE BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE < 1322086740 833109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you don't!¤#)/&%/NO CARRIER < 1322086824 524408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, why would I eat them, they're disgusting. < 1322086908 907576 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm in ~100 channels; changing nicks would be too spammy. :-( < 1322086913 576922 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322087039 911692 :mithridates!~mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates JOIN :#esoteric < 1322087064 307746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322087067 357195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome mithridates < 1322087102 946079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1322087106 618693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo isn't here. < 1322087112 251417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates: Sorry, you get the boring non-automated welcome. < 1322087124 196394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates: Hi esolangs http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. < 1322087136 918082 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates is clearly an esolangs! < 1322087139 704647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, had to) < 1322087168 159890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates: Sgeo is our resident bot. < 1322087182 320011 :mithridates!~mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is going on here? are you guys fucking with me? < 1322087182 373020 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beeps < 1322087186 942909 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322087190 258349 :mithridates!~mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaving < 1322087192 575047 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1322087192 866830 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1322087193 249438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates: What. < 1322087193 567168 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1322087214 97615 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates, I'm not a bot, and elliott likes to mess with people sometimes, but < 1322087226 920966 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates, he's not messing with you when he says that this is about esolangs < 1322087227 734860 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mithridates asked me to ban everyone in here < 1322087234 116634 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who do i start with < 1322087239 107413 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-209-28.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322087240 3906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with mithridates and lament < 1322087244 784386 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1322087250 342888 :mithridates!~mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah do it lament < 1322087252 64646 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322087257 831472 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :lament > 1322087257 854781 NAMES :#esoteric < 1322087258 448232 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what? < 1322087262 996198 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 MODE #esoteric +b :*!*mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates > 1322087263 18457 NAMES :#esoteric < 1322087266 77489 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 MODE #esoteric +b :*!*lament@184.71.170.* > 1322087266 99025 NAMES :#esoteric < 1322087273 949902 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 KICK #esoteric mithridates :mithridates < 1322087276 468360 :lament!~lament@184.71.170.250 KICK #esoteric lament :lament < 1322087282 758675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :disaster averted < 1322087295 678184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you sure mithridates isn't from #jesus < 1322087298 443338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that name. < 1322087308 388560 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see em there < 1322087315 491492 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't remember the name < 1322087321 921371 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322087328 73807 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: To be fair, -> isn't -- actually, I can't think of any way to be fair. <-- garden path sentence if i ever saw one < 1322087338 516167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you might want to read the last ~40 lines or so :P < 1322087341 502944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :before continuing logreading < 1322087345 822820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* mithridates (~mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates) has joined #esoteric < 1322087346 546728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :onwards < 1322087358 359037 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322087362 335017 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what happened to lament? < 1322087381 36167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, e banned and kicked emself < 1322087381 367748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, the last we heard, lament was denying he knew what this channel was altogether. < 1322087394 771361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a few years before that he only joined to yell at people. < 1322087400 96971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... who knows! < 1322087403 794637 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you an op in this channel? < 1322087408 307307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1322087414 816445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oerjan and ais523 are the active ops. < 1322087423 245106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is the only banned op, which is quite a distinction. < 1322087436 134048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, did lament remove his own op rights? < 1322087444 699982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just set himself to opped and banned, and leave it that way? < 1322087448 654700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Dunno. < 1322087458 256201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're still there. < 1322087472 487846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been dubious of lament's op rights for a while. < 1322087474 981175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can ban himself again if necessary, clearly < 1322087518 203488 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: you might want to read the last ~40 lines or so :P <-- scary < 1322087533 892709 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he able to unhandy himself? < 1322087541 397164 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unban < 1322087555 270958 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is unhandy even a word? < 1322087559 87838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: he can with chanserv < 1322087565 186901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks mithridates what the heck that was, against his better judgement. < 1322087571 446514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do everything against my better judgement. < 1322087577 631917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I have a worse judgement to contradict it. < 1322087590 931206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : What was that, anyway. < 1322087590 985024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : What was that, anyway. < 1322087591 109201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You took the words right out of my mouth. < 1322087659 155167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be lost for words! < 1322087662 101764 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be tongue-tied. < 1322087668 257632 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a nightingale at a Roman feast. < 1322087675 865745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't said anything else. :'( < 1322087701 976759 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a mute in a monologue. < 1322087731 654346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like an elliott in a /msg with mithridates. < 1322087753 232767 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322087834 416164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I do everything against my better judgement. That's why I have a worse judgement to contradict it. < 1322087840 246381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322087842 172061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322087843 417549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322087844 994866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322087847 394436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, HackEgo isn't here < 1322087851 725979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to do a fifth `quote anyway? < 1322087852 47082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1322087853 232392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322087854 456212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322087855 556563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make sure < 1322087861 261596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FIX IT DAMMIT < 1322087953 369490 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322087969 855600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You fix it. < 1322087996 11367 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I'll run it from my computer. That would be fine, right? < 1322088002 539204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r-------- 1 root root 140737486262272 Nov 23 22:39 /proc/kcore < 1322088002 790956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosh. < 1322088007 393945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: If you cloned the FS repo, sure. < 1322088016 230833 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322088056 488246 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that was a joke < 1322088071 956613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: It would be fine, if you got the fshg. < 1322088074 432103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat wat < 1322088107 409096 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you'd like to have a bot that disconnects every 5 minutes? < 1322088138 402515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wouldn't < 1322088152 336188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: better than one that never disconnects because its not here < 1322088157 433308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: what is even up with your connection < 1322088184 665250 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not the faintest idea. The wifi in the apartment is fine < 1322088213 530865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: It's fine but it keeps disconnecting? < 1322088256 53525 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its something with my computer, I mean. Not sure if hardware or softwarr < 1322088331 801775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Have you tried using Linux. < 1322088353 257540 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using Linux. < 1322088375 181430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Have you tried using Windows. < 1322088399 132145 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure I want to look for a copy of Windows < 1322088423 306869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Have you tried using ... QNX? < 1322088426 370508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeOS? < 1322088429 285767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AmigaOS 4? < 1322088455 67002 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could try not being ill < 1322088470 491133 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would help < 1322088507 122803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I think that's called "getting better"? Have you tried it. < 1322088689 365558 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wat huge core < 1322088741 43806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's 2^47 terabytes and iirc 2^48 is the address width of x86-64 or whatever < 1322088750 754024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it's half the address space the kernel cares about or something < 1322088761 317275 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic so very virtual < 1322089035 546550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322089046 693621 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1322089064 399967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got your nick wrong < 1322089114 892335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: < 1322089116 13650 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322089233 619925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322089271 425526 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322089271 495404 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322089271 548475 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322089291 31346 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti < 1322089307 322996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason reconnecting with irssi is completely unintuitive < 1322089308 643187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello kallisti "cakeprophet" kallisti < 1322089325 294979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Information on Kallisti (account Kallisti): < 1322089327 462543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nice uppercase :} < 1322089333 948207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1322089337 583192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: by which i mean < 1322089339 695590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it burns it burns < 1322089349 412211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eat it < 1322089352 71044 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322089357 920658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1322089433 160742 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ken regan pointed me to this which reminds me of evincar's language. i'm not sure whether it's more or less insane... http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/papers/pdf/PRS01.pdf < 1322089472 66766 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's supposedly self-consistent < 1322089490 803039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....wtf irssi < 1322089494 171496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it so difficult to just... < 1322089495 110730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reconnect < 1322089507 222795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without create multiple connections < 1322089513 848203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which one < 1322089515 878929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: /reconnect? < 1322089522 176099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1322089523 391510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322089523 876760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322089527 512732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I do. < 1322089530 851149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes Freenode2 often < 1322089540 762584 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the one with automatic currying or what it was < 1322089682 56138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i usually just /disconnect and then /connect freenode, iirc < 1322089739 971798 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually when there's a huge netsplit and i'm on the wrong side < 1322089750 932633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid < 1322089755 308021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what I do when there's a netsplit? < 1322089756 290279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing. < 1322089757 848842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wonderful < 1322089761 851873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wait, and then everything is fine. < 1322089767 15764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for that one. < 1322089773 765348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Great Netsplit Of Several Hours < 1322089793 348190 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322089804 332181 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm talking "looks like i'm nearly alone on the server" netsplits < 1322089877 521325 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322089945 234652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was thinking bombs would be cool because you could send them into the oribts of planets < 1322089967 311596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem I'm having with orbits is that orbits are probably going to be difficult to create. < 1322089975 266355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno about Phantom_Hoover, but I don't think your player should be able to blow up a planet. < 1322089987 176913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about moons? :P < 1322089997 74971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's sort of the whole challenge to it; it's not impossible, Phantom_Hoover said he had a fairly easy time of getting into orbits with that JS thing. < 1322090044 287112 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... kind of helps that I found out about that from a post on the guy's blog where he implemented it to play around with Hohmann transfers. < 1322090045 386577 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growfcomic.php?date=20070624 < 1322090059 686524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so now you're in orbit. what do you do now? < 1322090063 17053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the benefit. < 1322090068 136898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relevant) < 1322090096 564885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You explain why the whole game is basically based around orbits to kallisti. < 1322090125 693129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the only way to move in a gravity field? < 1322090186 366299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, so it's not possible to break escape velocity? < 1322090224 83207 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that's a good way of moving outside a gravity field. < 1322090230 857726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'in'. < 1322090278 84494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how do you propose to make things interesting without orbits < 1322090286 88335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving around in a vacuum is not fun or strategic at all < 1322090311 298115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't propose that < 1322090323 226886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you propose to make things boring? :P < 1322090328 533755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely curious as to how orbits would make things more interesting besides "weeee circle" < 1322090373 704274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm not proposing that planets don't have gravity. that's silly. < 1322090389 879837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... defer to Phantom_Hoover again, because I can't think of any way to explain why complicated orbit systems are interesting other than "they are". < 1322090393 350918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more of a question related to gameplay, I suppose. < 1322090458 732248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gravity-assisted manuever that allows you to travel across the system at a faster rate is an extremely complicated procedure, for example. < 1322090470 21834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ones that involve multiple planets < 1322090480 169995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect even a single planet would be difficult < 1322090516 908298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The problem is that you're seeing orbits as just a means to the end of going very fast and shooting at things in a vacuum? < 1322090525 11270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not something that's going to be easy without say... an automated control system that what NASA uses to do precision manuevers. < 1322090527 971695 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no that's one. < 1322090547 275716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just link kallisti to that JS thing so he can plyy with it himself :P < 1322090549 582097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but yes I'm trying to find means to an end from orbits, as typically games have means to ends blah blah blah < 1322090560 657230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/plyy/play/ < 1322090597 848387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.matthen.com/javascript/gravity.html < 1322090603 571447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it would be /fun/, sure. I'm not arguing it won't be fun. < 1322090769 20148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Got a link to that blog post, btw? < 1322090840 918349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay < 1322090998 573841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try a slingshot on that, actually. < 1322091084 770542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes good do it < 1322091163 449248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I forgot that the low-powered thrust makes it easier to control an orbit < 1322091196 402555 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322091209 323048 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322091231 476353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed it, but controlling it is another thing altogether. < 1322091353 308117 :myndz\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322091375 339648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Man this blog post is impossible to find. < 1322091376 286486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's difficult to get into orbit with the fast moving moons. < 1322091386 637854 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.matthen.com/page/6 < 1322091398 412413 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322091473 697677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I remember in gravity well, in deep space, you could become prefectly still < 1322091476 716402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, if that's your thing. < 1322091497 997288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Just turn on the space breaks. < 1322091518 68463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, kind of... < 1322091527 949854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can we have space breaks. < 1322091534 696731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322091536 542361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Today on Twitter I have been talking a little bit about how Edinburgh is pronounced." < 1322091543 292412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm thinking the game would perhaps benefit from multiple maps? < 1322091554 403414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Maps in what sense? < 1322091565 315644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a star system / star cluster / whatever scale is the largest map < 1322091578 247360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then map that's nearby and larger scale so that you can aim trajectories and the like < 1322091603 678498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically so the interface can accomodate precision spaceflight to a degree. < 1322091607 493250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. That's another rvival of the what-scale question :P < 1322091624 678483 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I would think /at least/ star system. < 1322091628 145049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322091635 106534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends how big stars and planets are. < 1322091661 184479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322091662 858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322091725 379137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about the stars and planets are normal size but the ship is huge? :P < 1322091737 192418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yees. < 1322091820 689371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this language is weird < 1322091856 625790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can you crash into planets and die? < 1322091862 340502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I've already died like 20 times now in this JS thing. < 1322091874 214275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: There is collision detection, yes. < 1322091921 5373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also heat, so good luck with that. < 1322091970 495765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope the stronger thruster (if it exists) will match escape velocity of some medium-sized planets. < 1322091976 593405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hopefully < 1322092059 155181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring? < 1322092075 266422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ideas keep sounding like "let's remove all the learning curve so that navigation is completely trivial" :P < 1322092079 174646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as boring as dying by planet collision. < 1322092090 716218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :frequently < 1322092094 731858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay, we'll see. < 1322092133 481076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322092183 429573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this thing would make a good esolang < 1322092189 298970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also powerful thruster != sudden gravity immunity < 1322092205 920207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a mean to move fast suddenly sometimes that the weaker thruster doesn't allow < 1322092395 274043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gas giants will be tricky without such a thing I imagine. < 1322092408 319381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/tricky/near impossible to not die at least sometimes/ < 1322092494 586173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322092513 320115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome itidus21 < 1322092525 605880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego is down < 1322092528 75360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi itidus21 < 1322092529 13740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322092536 711726 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP HOW DO I WELCOME PEOPLE WITHOUT BOTS??? < 1322092563 895614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: list-communication-protocol < 1322092565 225964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh..... < 1322092631 624903 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think itidus21 has been here before < 1322092638 126342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322092639 62543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way. < 1322092641 506469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpossible < 1322092643 648622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to blieve it. < 1322092646 534753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would recognize him. < 1322092653 527618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has perfect memory. < 1322092656 362235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eidetic or whatever. < 1322092660 548284 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name is familiar, at least < 1322092676 159548 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log itidus < 1322092678 59007 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLA < 1322092680 475412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Sgeo really not ermember good ol itidus < 1322092682 57887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote itidus < 1322092683 186120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1322092698 532204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/06a2f5c42c24/quotes < 1322092700 150499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep /itidus/ < 1322092710 605639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/06a2f5c42c24/quotes < 1322092714 124269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that thing messes up wordwrap < 1322092714 273351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do u grep without hackego????? < 1322092715 484210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322092728 607296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego is what I used to think < 1322092731 209472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I can't think. < 1322092797 427930 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I wasn't welcomed even *with* bots. :-( < 1322092840 58459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, even if you can't blow up planets < 1322092852 158874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can black hole them? < 1322092868 72110 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hurls kallisti into a <> < 1322092869 607132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1322092878 651647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned being able to produce black holes < 1322092881 360094 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so it would < 1322092884 830377 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322092909 170469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input to the interpreter has the form [interpreter, program, current line, state]. The in- < 1322092909 276863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :terpreter is (if π3 (π3 ( )) then π1 (π4 ( )) else π1 (Update)) Υ9 , where Update is the term < 1322092909 329627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ a Υ ( [π1 ( b ), π2 ( c ), d Υ ([π2 ( e ), π4 ( e )] Υ2 e ), f Υ π4 ( g )] < 1322092909 329800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Υ < 1322092909 329902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1322092910 142315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c π1 (π3 ( d )) < 1322092912 127984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e π2 (π3 ( f )) < 1322092913 911657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1322092916 45788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1322092918 162441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :] Υ (π1 ( ))a b c d e f g . < 1322092920 249643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, it messed up the formatting < 1322092921 664151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1322092923 714696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the words < 1322092925 855037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and symbols < 1322092945 649703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo itidus < 1322092948 860511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYYYY < 1322092950 958080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wierhiuwheriuhweurhwreih < 1322092954 99723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am can't go on < 1322092957 522589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies. < 1322092979 119579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what < 1322092980 610731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322092981 178220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1322093026 324236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ripped your mom apart in that dung blizzard < 1322093028 95217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pahhhhh < 1322093031 444450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah pha pah ha pha < 1322093031 728609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322093034 377149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: hi < 1322093043 190775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Because UPSILON is Turing-compete and has a composition function, it is an acceptable programming system" < 1322093045 130972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you say... < 1322093062 152176 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey by _our_ standards... < 1322093064 901760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all turing complete languages with a composition function are acceptable. QED < 1322093083 655428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "as defined by Rogers [Rog58]." :P < 1322093094 87228 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does < 1322093097 745969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooes his last name start with a G? < 1322093128 718318 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, our recent changes page is _only_ spam deletion < 1322093143 296441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep! < 1322093225 833622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stars should probably be immovable < 1322093239 870052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think planet destruction could be based on individual planets. < 1322093245 508042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there is no "star". there's just a big, massive, hot object floating about. < 1322093251 627381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :small ones would be easier to destroy, presumably. < 1322093258 236262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and what do you call that object? < 1322093273 589667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a star. i'm saying it's not special-cased in the physics. < 1322093279 200447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have an "immovable" star. < 1322093280 791096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also small planets have lesser impact on the star systems orbits so... not gamebreaking. < 1322093304 34346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean indestructable. practically < 1322093305 744315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the code < 1322093308 463534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1322093312 390660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing you have will do anything to it. < 1322093327 383776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also mostly a property of the object itself :P < 1322093340 89977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, sure < 1322093343 997838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to be incredibly vague. < 1322093380 2426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like mercury for example < 1322093383 56756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is basically a big asteroid < 1322093390 891877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be able to blow that motherfucker up. < 1322093412 978295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. a _very_ big asteroid. < 1322093426 977781 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mean to interrupt but what game is this under discussion? < 1322093440 525806 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i look at logs perhaps? < 1322093443 724865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aii < 1322093446 78869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi itidus21 < 1322093446 622283 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322093465 483181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by reading the word "aii" you now know everything about the game :P < 1322093473 756455 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1322093489 550258 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, is it an actual game or something under design? < 1322093512 119356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: latter, although there is code < 1322093542 423816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about can I land on planets instead? < 1322093545 411498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm going slow < 1322093552 266294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of dying on them < 1322093571 685547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you could... rest on it? there's no atmospheres. < 1322093574 642049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i am pretty sure you would just burn up though. < 1322093588 99583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes heat < 1322093593 755003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gas giants are not gas giants < 1322093596 205855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rock giants :P < 1322093607 617026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well you could just turn collision off... < 1322093615 211964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those < 1322093638 348854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :great so now instead of colliding into planets and dying I can get sucked into their massive gravitational pull :P < 1322093749 642013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also I feel there's a lack of character-driven story < 1322093753 490341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the planets can be people < 1322093755 568671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have personalities < 1322093758 487409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...) < 1322093760 949704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the story is that you hate whoever you're playing with < 1322093779 449577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see it's more interesting for example < 1322093791 630870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Jupiter is jealous of Mercury's small body < 1322093801 860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wants to lose all that gassy weight. < 1322093819 523788 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes the story more dynamic < 1322093911 950888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I doubt we can use realistic radii for planets < 1322093920 641900 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you make the ship large enough so that Jupiter fits on screen < 1322093933 177111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :earth-sized planets are now tiny dots in comparison to your ship. < 1322093959 690302 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you could have like Jupiter be the king of the planets, and say Mercury could be the messenger because he's fast. And Venus could be the hot chick. Nah wait, too ridiculous. < 1322093985 965108 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322094164 83839 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could tell stories of their interactions to explain various earthly phenomena < 1322094192 688393 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jupiter's the fat guy who has horrible gas. but he's still a pretty cool guy. < 1322094203 493286 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what are we doing < 1322094213 879694 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: terribly whooshy gas < 1322094237 221210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck you too :D < 1322094264 291465 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't expect me to read more than one random line < 1322094268 733965 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of backlog < 1322094270 60473 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322094310 897935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: making a game (not as good as your games don't worry) < 1322094323 321598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it would be cool if you plug in parameters for the solar system into a map editor and it creates a working model of the solar system. < 1322094328 907998 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that goes without even saying it goes without saying. < 1322094339 666661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquotebutthebotsnothere well that goes without even saying it goes without saying. < 1322094343 232370 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322094363 746536 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is this game about? < 1322094373 259203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no why, alas. < 1322094377 113888 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1322094389 119383 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will continue doing nothing < 1322094398 57085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lies < 1322094402 601288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are at least two whys < 1322094405 61402 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will try my best to nontribute to this game < 1322094445 17105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so if we have like < 1322094446 751467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of roll < 1322094450 433403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you execute this roll < 1322094452 87961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: good because you SUCK lol < 1322094454 205769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reflects projectiles < 1322094455 787407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :away from you < 1322094477 242327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called a shield, kallisti < 1322094490 484283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm, no < 1322094492 511872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like < 1322094492 946543 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a barrel roll? < 1322094494 644209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a barrel roll < 1322094495 129958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322094496 876101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: thank < 1322094532 793899 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1322094543 719277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HAHA I AM BEING HUMEROUS FOR HUMER EFFECT GET IT < 1322094545 241114 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks a lot, Peppy... < 1322094551 881369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ur bad person < 1322094756 933278 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: good because you SUCK lol" xD < 1322094769 378584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no im being so dreadfully sincere your games are the WORST < 1322094775 12054 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyyyeah :D < 1322094780 588362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i < 1322094782 491470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :want you to < 1322094783 714796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get offended < 1322094788 4523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can apologise?? < 1322094796 975415 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really trying < 1322094820 751632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm sorry oklopol < 1322094870 157980 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, and now that's gonna go to waste < 1322094888 799800 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen i'll get some sleep and see if i can muster up some in the morning < 1322094902 821907 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll work on your "game" < 1322094913 551945 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322094915 964535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant to say < 1322094918 13122 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"work" < 1322094926 122234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no but its not a game its actually < 1322094926 986284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a plan < 1322094928 503639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tok ill you < 1322094930 160861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to death < 1322094993 556129 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. well i guess i'm ever gladder i didn't colluberate. < 1322095008 186205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no but < 1322095009 946441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you collaborates < 1322095010 688470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1322095014 915580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were going to hold off. < 1322095018 379671 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's how it's spulled < 1322095054 950771 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's not gonna make me collaboratesd because i now knowsd the plan. < 1322095080 77575 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really have to sleep. after this episode. < 1322095088 228222 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye night. < 1322095138 646693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but do you knowsd < 1322095142 525239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that you're goingsd tosd < 1322095144 741493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: diesd < 1322095542 728518 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322095612 872389 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322095709 61644 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goosd grammarsd < 1322095814 281158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :die oerjan, die < 1322095818 464301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you a physics < 1322095844 140830 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no am chemic < 1322095861 115386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1322095880 516984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: code aii's physics engine thanks, chemic are good at this < 1322095927 559237 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :engine go boom < 1322095938 931840 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322095982 362933 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aii aii o < 1322096032 959722 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322096116 716782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 decremented < 1322096117 647486 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322096120 383498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and became itidus20 < 1322096126 250050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: noooooooo < 1322096127 809211 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322096132 7943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh PiRSquared17 looks new < 1322096136 236747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone mention the channel in #haskell again < 1322096150 106667 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been here before... < 1322096153 35583 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last year < 1322096155 946145 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1322096183 546492 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I check the wiki... < 1322096184 748603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good! i won't welcome you then. < 1322096202 230051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION harsh, but fair. < 1322096203 762952 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we don't want to be welcoming to your kind. < 1322096226 638622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we prefer people who've never been here, their brains are squishier and more tasty < 1322096241 645944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also easier to trap < 1322096245 651366 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I was.just about tobasl if id be welcome back into the monecraft channel < 1322096259 837895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just tobasl if id be welcome back into the monecraft channel too. < 1322096263 514015 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322096278 869264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was going to say that PiRSquared17 should become TauRSquared8.5, but someone might actually take him seriously. < 1322096318 373590 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tau = 2pi ? < 1322096326 210683 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRNOTSquared, PIRRound < 1322096329 436159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: Yes :P < 1322096339 327616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: N.B. That was not actually true. < 1322096340 332270 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I thought... < 1322096387 587808 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moneycraft the gnome game < 1322096407 324496 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooncraft the elf game < 1322096424 727108 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moancraft - let's not go into details < 1322096454 462946 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meancraft the orc game < 1322096469 252954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moocraft < 1322096476 762218 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention i caught up with yafgc < 1322096482 963352 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have sworn I saw PiR on Reddit < 1322096489 178891 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOt me < 1322096492 469859 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*o < 1322096509 940047 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :manecraft is just horsing around < 1322096522 309670 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :minicraft the halfling/hobbit game < 1322096584 297526 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes he is confusing minecraft and DF, the joke falls off a cliff and dies < 1322096598 471023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did that a long time ago < 1322096604 646695 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1322096614 205743 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just didn't realize until it looked down < 1322096634 549355 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarfcraft < 1322096904 157776 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1322096932 755455 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1322097262 252475 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322097336 301620 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322097771 980062 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1322097865 752304 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322097886 538735 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322097908 32706 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322097908 145833 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322097908 200222 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322098309 900506 :Klisz!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: I AM KLISZ, FEAR ME < 1322098351 382316 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1322098383 809965 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322098459 273652 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :double increment detected < 1322098528 450976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi itidus22 how are you enjoying your +2 < 1322098696 479310 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome shachaf < 1322098724 159718 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are NOT welcome. this much should be obvious. < 1322098841 426009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322098967 493563 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322099034 173177 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION :-( < 1322099245 555288 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322099609 132288 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1322099644 628903 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322099695 748363 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disconnects are fun! < 1322099795 164576 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun disco nectar < 1322099852 833427 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I didn't end up disconnected! < 1322099871 288206 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just very high lag reporte < 1322099871 377521 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which went down < 1322099877 756945 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the server hold on to messages for a time? < 1322099893 731295 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it < 1322099897 635599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s your evil twin < 1322099911 167329 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said disconnects are fun at :54, XChat says :56 < 1322099920 687955 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::54 here < 1322099952 905042 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Support for the server holds onto messages until reconnect or pingout hypothesis < 1322099968 318538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has that got to do with that < 1322099977 295242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the server delivers messages if you're connected... < 1322099981 168463 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else would XChat have seen my message? < 1322099986 556868 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I lost connection < 1322100004 72378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322100006 213195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't lose connection? < 1322100010 656814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the message sent?? < 1322100022 538987 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what has been happening? < 1322100044 506019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1 has not disconnected before (for a long while) or since saying "Disconnects are fun" < 1322100050 486781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are you talking about? < 1322100063 986910 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only my computer that's disconnecting < 1322100069 912226 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason < 1322100080 442510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then wtf is your hypothesis about? < 1322100087 774562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _also_ haven't disconnected in ages < 1322100096 662587 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I came close around :54-56 < 1322100111 786786 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did disconnect, but for an amount of time less than Freenode takes to notice the pingout < 1322100119 668926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how TCP works < 1322100142 348585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost connection is indistinguishable from sufficiently large lag. < 1322100157 56154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously freenode won't disconnect you if you lose connection for a sufficiently short amount of time < 1322100164 46879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing about "keeping messages" < 1322100198 578893 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was TCP trying to resend the messages then? < 1322100212 869331 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.. makes sense, I think < 1322100257 854242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You... realise that TCP was created because connections are really unreliable, right? < 1322100265 840608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all about retries. < 1322100270 338949 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1322100278 370533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... half retries, half maintaining the illusion of an ordered stream. < 1322100280 643157 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If IRC used UDP, the effect wouldn't happen, I guess < 1322100302 941295 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If IRC used UDP, it would actually be entirely possible for you to miss things sent to the channel. < 1322100324 367445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If IRC used UDP, close enough messages would arrive in nonsense order :P < 1322100352 200610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although IRC doesn't really need streaming much *shrugs* < 1322100365 275788 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention there would be no meaningful notion of "connection". < 1322100408 931172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, ping timeouts are the only time IRC cares about connections, really :) < 1322100417 751072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's "remote host closed the connection", but doing that with ping timeout is only like a hundred second delay, and it's a failure case anyway. < 1322100439 425698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Although it does mean that you'd be limited to one connection per IP :P < 1322100474 997148 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really; UDP has seperate source/destination ports, just like TCP. < 1322100490 495592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, right < 1322100490 874815 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? doesn't UDP also inc... right < 1322100502 956254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting about that because no interface exposes it ever :) < 1322100509 260875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from low level socket interfaces :P < 1322100527 114447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, why not? < 1322100541 647713 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else could UDP ever work on a multiuser machine < 1322100545 188061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1322100547 942275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why? < 1322100553 430981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The source/dest ports are completely irrelevant to any actual user. < 1322100569 625233 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322100573 580834 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are? < 1322100591 80203 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: When you're not starting a server, BSD sockets just randomises the source port. < 1322100613 29998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sure they are. < 1322100613 83038 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322100613 83114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know your current source/dest port? < 1322100615 553872 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the only time that it matters which port you *choose* is when you start a server. < 1322100616 320595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for IRC) < 1322100621 833078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When would you ever need to? < 1322100653 87390 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely a single program needs to... well, hmm, have a destination port? < 1322100674 227089 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dest is usually 6777 for irc, isn't it? or does it mean something else? < 1322100677 42370 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, choose it. < 1322100681 571796 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, *6667 < 1322100686 223650 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it chooses *that*, but not the other one. < 1322100689 339127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: The socket library handles picking a port. < 1322100701 638459 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a *pair* of ports in each TCP or UDP session. < 1322100704 325279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what SgeoN1 means. < 1322100706 17603 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only ever choose one. < 1322100706 494115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, you need :6667... < 1322100715 900574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that you don't care about the one that isn't the server port. < 1322100715 953732 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCTP is the future. < 1322100720 661760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Does anything route SCTP yet? < 1322100736 253402 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did I *say* "SCTP is the present"? < 1322100742 269272 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think so. < 1322100744 156190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :-) < 1322100746 315528 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On the greater Internet, everything should *route* it. < 1322100752 925674 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anything *NATs* it, though. < 1322100765 715093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quick! Run an SCTP server! < 1322100773 344397 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behind a NAT. < 1322100774 503982 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322100774 579324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE MUST TEST THIS < 1322100790 149789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah :P < 1322100791 699074 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl < 1322100793 11969 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also SCTP over UDP. < 1322100798 940088 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should "just work". < 1322100800 811759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :July 1, 2004 < 1322100800 919675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCTP now comes to you via satellite until DSL becomes available. This means you must be patient when downloading files since there is an additional 550ms RTT for TCP packets which causes interesting side effects. The uplink speed is 100kbps, so large downloads will take some time. < 1322100804 32991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How much overhead does that give? < 1322100805 441941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: old :P < 1322100810 980924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A WHOLE DAY OLD < 1322100815 587297 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1322100820 313921 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not very much at all. < 1322100835 394173 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as old as what I'm playing (id Tech 1 -- Hexen 2) < 1322100841 940611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UDP header is 32 bits. < 1322100866 505220 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source port, destination port, length, and optional checksum. < 1322100878 255667 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mandatory for IPv6) < 1322100878 437887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's also the algorithmic overhead, but yeah :P < 1322100914 31951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't you mean 64 bits? < 1322100918 554156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think ports are that small. Or, lengths and checksums. < 1322100925 122399 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, derp. < 1322100928 775329 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 64 bits. < 1322100936 435813 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 per field. < 1322100973 226385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd rather replace IP than TCP and UDP. :( < 1322100974 763301 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 Bits, where 1 Bit = 2 bits. < 1322100999 104261 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Calories. < 1322101005 337809 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit confusing < 1322101026 620783 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll be happy to switch to IPv@ < 1322101077 566252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Here's a prototype: Remove bits 96-128. < 1322101083 550382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Uh, from IPv4.) < 1322101111 515540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, IPv6's header is surprisingly simple. < 1322101115 889491 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The *IP address*? < 1322101121 36636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Revised prototype: Remove bits 64-160. < 1322101124 744200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The source address. < 1322101182 636541 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is just going to shove it further down the protocol stack... < 1322101193 668068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322101200 842732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Source-independent networking. < 1322101207 544386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what's for dinner! < 1322101240 366541 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Networking without replies." < 1322101260 455743 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Is* there a usecase for send-only networking? < 1322101264 522080 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322101304 17677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I gather that there are at least two other people in the world who think this is a good idea, and one of them is Van Jacobson, so I must be doing something right. < 1322101331 425892 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name to me some cases where you would like to send packets without receiving any packets in response in a network at all. < 1322101382 891639 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Introversion game should I play < 1322101453 744111 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking DEFCON, Uplink, or Darwinia, I've heard of those < 1322101461 973644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uplink. < 1322101462 343973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, that's ... all of the games. < 1322101462 641850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from Multiwinia, which is just online Darwinia, I think. < 1322101472 128264 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious about DEFCON, which is also multiplayer, right? < 1322101472 428876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but apparently rather boring. < 1322101472 481620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously though. < 1322101472 481783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uplink. < 1322101473 518549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's their most famous game for a reason. < 1322101473 695268 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think when I tried Uplink, I thought it was boring < 1322101473 748752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I should just link you to the Urbit post. http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html < 1322101473 748912 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ok, I'll try it < 1322101473 749053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You were wrong. < 1322101481 650836 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, what's so bad about monoids? < 1322101491 579617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1322101499 341959 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the deal with monoids? < 1322101501 448557 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Urbit post < 1322101513 120042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know what you're talking about. < 1322101523 647991 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Read the whole thing. Haskell fans, you'll know exactly where you can stick your monads. Indeed, Elliott on monadic I/O sounds a lot like VJ on connection-oriented networking. This is not, I believe, a coincidence. If Urbit is like anything, it's like Elliot's FRP - though with no monads, gonads, morphinisms, monoids, combiguators, or other implements of metamathematical torture." < 1322101528 700787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1322101534 5842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ignore the bit after that dash. < 1322101539 591410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guy doesn't actually know any Haskell. < 1322101549 994251 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that quote looks good. < 1322101553 650984 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it talking about Conal? < 1322101579 784220 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's not form that link. < 1322101586 120955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1322101621 507995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of the post is very good, even despite that tiny regrettable bit. < 1322101624 842584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/nock-maxwells-equations-of-software.html should be read before it, though.) < 1322101631 684866 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be talking about all three elliotts, like some kind of chimera < 1322101645 56399 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, even though monads are pure except for IO, I think it makes sense to apply anger towards monads < 1322101646 399544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kerberos < 1322101656 729546 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're often used for imperative-style, if not always < 1322101665 206299 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's "not pure" about IO? < 1322101676 751083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IO is a model of impure computation. < 1322101684 165157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Describing it as "impure" doesn't seem inaccurate. < 1322101715 133902 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ok, I guess the not pure stuff is .. right outside, so to speak? executing main is certainly an impure operation, even if that's not observable from inside Haskell. Although I guess a lot of good things are < 1322101718 308802 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. I'll just dispute the "used for imperative-style" bit, then. < 1322101741 24988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, IO is also inherently sequential. < 1322101771 236315 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, let's call printing a string "executing it" and then call strings "models of impure computation". < 1322101779 570339 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, but I wasn't talking about IO. < 1322101796 561172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That seems unfair, since kind of the whole point about IO is that you can't get a value out of it. < 1322101802 844362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "tail :: IO a -> IO a". < 1322101813 282099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be really vague about it.) < 1322101819 323992 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, sure. < 1322101824 197167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :State is often imperative-style, I'd think, even though it's fundamentally pure inside < 1322101832 216718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have some primitive programs, and can transform the results of programs, but there's nothing you can do to the IOs /themselves/. < 1322101848 30565 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't *have* to be that way, depending on your model of IO. < 1322101863 216278 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not in general. < 1322101884 841315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Like what? decompose :: IO a -> exists b. (IOOperation b, b -> IO a)? < 1322101914 265633 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the exists for? < 1322101924 899086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where data IOOperation a where PutStrLn :: String -> IOOperation (); GetLine :: IOOperation String etc.) < 1322101937 166739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: As in "why can't you just remove it", or "what does it do"? < 1322101962 348623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's shorter than: < 1322101962 454524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data DecomposedIO a = forall b. DecomposedIO (IOOperation b) (b -> IO a) < 1322101962 507531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :decompose :: IO a -> DecomposedIO a < 1322102068 568530 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322102068 673439 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that. < 1322102084 956114 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if you could know what was inside? < 1322102097 365515 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would the type of IO balloon? < 1322102099 775626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Depends what you mean about "inside". < 1322102103 560378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, know the type of b < 1322102110 288062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That breaks a lot of nice properties, though. :( < 1322102112 881163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You do. That's why it's an "exists". < 1322102126 838262 :Rugxulo!~puppy@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322102129 961801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get given one, as opposed to getting to choose one (a forall). < 1322102146 960549 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, man, all those nice properties of IO. < 1322102159 873598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, it breaks IO-parametricity. < 1322102162 642915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a thing now. < 1322102169 426605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't need a name until you broke it. < 1322102257 56252 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want a mouse to play Uplink? < 1322102265 723126 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is touchpad sufficient? < 1322102287 687752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you happy navigating your computer menus with a touchpad? < 1322102298 363881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatively quickly? < 1322102303 769532 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Left{} < 1322102304 400535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. Either a b < 1322102308 654385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because that's literally Uplink's interface. < 1322102310 279036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: augh < 1322102315 666837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Actually more buttons than menus. < 1322102324 834695 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-November/097047.html < 1322102326 898607 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not as quick as with a mouse < 1322102339 465477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Do you /have/ a mouse? < 1322102350 918964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Left{} < 1322102351 661418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Left *Exception: :3:0-5: Missing field in record construction < 1322102371 218651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse, but the table my computer is on is not a good mousepad, and the newspaper I once used is now on the floor, and I'm not about to touch it < 1322102393 780818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it covered in ants < 1322102396 438796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw why aren't you using the google groups interface :P < 1322102409 77811 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a cat living here < 1322102415 888361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The litterbox is on the floor < 1322102425 512375 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322102425 679466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a nice cat < 1322102443 173702 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a friend cat < 1322102448 463155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: augh < 1322102454 359611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1322102499 658585 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t StateT{} < 1322102500 509264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s (m :: * -> *) a. StateT s m a < 1322102508 157630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why aughy < 1322102521 499763 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i had the feeling when pasting that you would remind me ;P < 1322102574 715394 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the {}? < 1322102582 449231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you afraid of google groups :P < 1322102589 510723 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: record syntax, with an empty field list < 1322102651 235105 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runStateT (undefined { runStateT = \s -> return (s, "hello") } ) 5 < 1322102651 387749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Char]) < 1322102651 769317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal ... < 1322102686 646921 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runIdentity $ runStateT (undefined { runStateT = \s -> return ("hello", s) } ) 5 < 1322102686 737126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("hello",5) < 1322102692 705974 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const 3 (undefined + 3) < 1322102704 457951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1322102716 309830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how the heck does that work?? < 1322102716 398436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1322102718 923563 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if that's according to the report < 1322102732 201054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh because StateT is a newtype < 1322102737 736645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x { runStateT = y } === StateT y < 1322102741 988234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew :( < 1322102755 1435 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well StateT has only one constructor, so presumably ghc doesn't bother to evaluate before replacing < 1322102756 685275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: otoh it's not clear to me that x{...} should evaluate x... < 1322102761 257693 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, artdiopdate < 1322102771 106716 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... time to look at the report text < 1322102798 459734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BIG GUNS < 1322102976 578314 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the translation in http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-490003.15.3 seems to imply that it should be strict, but otoh the alternative only makes sense for single-constructor types < 1322102999 560782 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322103009 685399 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if taken _literally_, it actually isn't strict for newtypes :P < 1322103063 84918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was hoping that # would point to something useful :( < 1322103073 147778 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell data Testing = Testing { field :: Int } deriving Show; main = print $ undefined { field = 100 } < 1322103079 722606 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.15792.hs: Prelude.undefined < 1322103086 56783 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh it doesn't? remove the .3 then < 1322103086 401918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The expression F {}, where F is a data constructor, is legal whether or not F was declared with record syntax (provided F has no strict fields — see the fourth bullet above)" < 1322103092 570789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm is a newtype's field not strict? < 1322103107 332347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would think it should be considered strict, and so Newtype{} should be illegal... < 1322103108 293278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: StateT{} < 1322103113 685436 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not in pattern matching < 1322103126 805505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er what? < 1322103132 435228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realise that newtypes behave differently when pattern-matching < 1322103142 289181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that a newtype is identical to data Foo = Foo !Field < 1322103151 639145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess pattern-matching is relevant here... < 1322103177 405524 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the translation given in the link depends on the strictness of that pattern matching for whether the result is strict < 1322103191 506152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322103194 311835 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :section 3.15.3 < 1322103199 203500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it is valid < 1322103212 394765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was the non-literal reading? < 1322103247 778831 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just assuming it would work like for data < 1322103265 3464 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell newtype Testing = Testing { field :: Int } deriving Show; main = print $ undefined { field = 100 } < 1322103269 742987 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing {field = 100} < 1322103272 404086 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1322103284 260494 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so it actually differs < 1322103309 62450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it's obvious that it differs with GHC's implementation of newtypes P: < 1322103359 292288 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You must be the most virtuous programmer, for you are possessed of the greatest virtue. < 1322103396 400526 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot evaluates Haskell? < 1322103416 342167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "does it use MooEval?" < 1322103418 575779 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use MooEval? < 1322103433 750508 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++... < 1322103434 97165 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​... < 1322103435 193863 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1322103442 101769 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's merely runhaskell'ing in a sandbox. < 1322103483 512194 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell Control.Concurrent.threadDelay 1000000000 < 1322103489 821085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hi < 1322103493 726624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not actually runhaskell. < 1322103507 316428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It tries GHC with various wrappers around the code in the same sandbox as HackEgo. < 1322103510 476116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2 + 2 < 1322103513 343050 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1322103518 423802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell print (2 + 2) < 1322103520 976850 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1322103523 176610 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yay, hubris! < 1322103526 407651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main :: IO (); main = print (2 + 2) < 1322103526 553746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it _could_ have special-cased single constructor data < 1322103531 112769 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1322103534 798014 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell return(2+2)::IO Int < 1322103537 191012 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1322103550 539819 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> StateT {} `seq` "test" < 1322103550 592710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: :3:0-8: Missing field in record construction Cont... < 1322103557 705972 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops hm < 1322103560 851963 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (StateT) {} `seq` "test" < 1322103561 760758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Empty record update < 1322103581 932587 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: StateT is a newtype. < 1322103583 256166 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const "test" $ StateT {} < 1322103583 993896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "test" < 1322103594 510678 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322103602 312563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1322103602 447825 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1322103602 674547 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell runST (return 5) < 1322103620 431235 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some error reporting you've got there, EgoBot. < 1322103629 94803 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; print (runST (return 5)) < 1322103638 187851 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322103642 315408 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:59 DCC CHAT from EgoBot [64.62.173.65 port 10079] < 1322103650 219854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Klisz < 1322103654 41965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah esolangs http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1322103659 44323 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like ghc doesn't consider newtypes strict for that compile time error < 1322103664 580607 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you just welcome everybody? < 1322103669 704699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Totally. < 1322103674 897098 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott. < 1322103677 1153 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Who isn't me? < 1322103681 28729 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322103683 515386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't like you! < 1322103704 708020 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a distinctly non-zero possibility I know Klisz IRL. < 1322103704 872171 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's psychologically impossible to dislike me. < 1322103724 215730 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell data Test = Test {strict :: !Int }; main = print $ const "test" $ Test {} < 1322103733 868446 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hello, other person from Colorado!) < 1322103734 66290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you Klisz? < 1322103734 956778 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I believe you don't. I was known as Darth Cliche until earlier today when I changed my name. < 1322103738 103792 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; main = print (runST (return 5)) < 1322103739 560820 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1322103741 381532 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that gave an error in DCC < 1322103743 184721 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1322103746 97093 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We merely happen to be in the same state. < 1322103749 397463 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; main = print (id runST (return 5)) < 1322103756 8231 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klisz: Ah. Yeah, you're up in Boulder, aren't you? < 1322103756 500648 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; main = print ((id runST) (return 5)) < 1322103761 185047 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1322103761 241718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, EgoBot's !haskell does -O2. < 1322103762 803525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's why it's so slow. < 1322103774 477100 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, visiting family for Thanksgiving; I normally live in Cheyenne, WY, though < 1322103789 574202 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :being one of four or five people in that state < 1322103828 309870 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: When are you moving to CA? < 1322103831 723639 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: It's not actually runhaskell. <-- um iirc the second wrapper tried is runhaskell < 1322103832 230670 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klisz: When are you moving to CA? < 1322103836 721046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, it is. < 1322103845 547906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Really tempted to put -fglasgow-exts in this patch of EgoBot's runghc. < 1322103860 631406 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it! < 1322103864 80802 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fglasgow-exts is the devil. < 1322103867 949305 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If ever, probably sometime after graduating. < 1322103870 40327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's such a good devil! < 1322103873 82116 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do not intend to move outside the glorious Rocky Mountains < 1322103961 381986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Some error reporting you've got there, EgoBot. <-- everything above one line is sent as DCC CHAT < 1322103978 542787 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't you need to open a port for those? < 1322103986 556060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Replace HackEgo's runghc with http://sprunge.us/AYIK, thx (avoids really expensive optimisation, useless temporary file) < 1322103986 609302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322103996 789221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: works for me without port-forwarding < 1322104019 16058 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to (a) figure out how to tell irssi to accept DCC CHAT (b) accept DCC CHAT. < 1322104033 51046 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You use IPv8 or something, don't you? < 1322104034 145475 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322104046 853946 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322104053 959340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IPv20 < 1322104076 575822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: /dcc chat, btw. < 1322104095 289715 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Don't you need to open a port for those? <-- well yes, i've set irssi to accept from EgoBot automatically. < 1322104112 80762 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know you get public-facing IP addresses at MIT when you connect to the free WiFi? < 1322104117 705662 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because they have way too many of them. < 1322104133 97771 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc_autochat_masks = EgoBot < 1322104139 845430 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one deserves that many IPv4 addresses. < 1322104141 399063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: MIT own an /8. < 1322104151 538926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "LEGACY", though, so I guess they don't actually use it. < 1322104173 670539 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if this is the sort of channel where people get angry at you if you say "Class A". < 1322104189 689448 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits shachaf with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1322104194 260057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People get angry at people saying that? < 1322104205 605020 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T USE FUCKING BAD WORDS LIKE THAT < 1322104205 697488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wish Ilari was here to see us talking about IP. < 1322104209 772932 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try it out in #-blah. < 1322104214 388437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He will be missed. < 1322104219 195968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he ran out of IPv6 addresses. < 1322104269 482181 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is Ilari? < 1322104298 300208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a guy who used to come in here. Mostly he reported IPv4 exhaustion with nearly robotic precission and formatting. < 1322104300 873738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was great fun. < 1322104316 830365 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nutritional science < 1322104321 99417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also IPv6 deletion, but that's like saying he reported on oceans and also his tap which keeps dripping. < 1322104334 557108 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was wrong. < 1322104343 789537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you ever not? < 1322104355 182582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually think shachaf is always wrong. < 1322104360 803575 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Ilari was pretty great. < 1322104361 196432 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is always wrong. < 1322104902 362988 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-76.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322104904 81765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-46.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322105224 463904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-46.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 253 seconds < 1322105229 838475 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322105283 106001 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there another hacker or something? I took a mission, the file server was empty, I replidd and got paid < 1322105330 111651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Did you /read/ the opening text? < 1322105332 367826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like the Uplink server and job board exists solely for your personal benefit. < 1322105363 139513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Just believe the game will be as detailed and realistic to its premise as possible, and you'll do well. < 1322105407 368508 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uplink Internal Services never gets a subpoena? < 1322105429 247276 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually < 1322105434 571055 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't make sense < 1322105454 226234 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... the authorities never conclude that something weird is going on with InterNIC < 1322105469 505542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did you read the very opening text? It's encryption shit, man. < 1322105475 329273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's nothing weird about InterNIC, it just gets routed through. < 1322105494 840487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, /to its premise/, i.e. Hollywood hacking. < 1322105523 554377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just pretend it's Tor if you have to. < 1322105756 755299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Besides, the authorities _can_ track you down. < 1322105766 443336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uplink just trashes your machine and disconnects you. < 1322105810 93396 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my understanding, the Feds actually go inside the building where the machine is stored < 1322105836 747739 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't ever come to the conclusion that Uplink... hmm, actually this sounds a bit like the argument over copyright and user-uploaded content < 1322105840 34078 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, hmm < 1322105864 966552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's to say the FBI isn't after Uplink's ass, but they just distribute their servers throughout multiple continents through various proxy accounts blah blah blah? < 1322105882 53441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this may surprise you, but people actually conduct illegitimate activities over the internet. On a wide scale, even! < 1322106174 210403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Jerzy Karczmarczuk sure is annoying < 1322106178 212182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (you've got me reading haskell-cafe!) < 1322106438 712306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clCreateProgramWithBinary ctx devs bins = wrapPError $ \perr -> do withArray < 1322106438 765252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :devs $ \pdevs -> do withArray lbins $ \plbins -> do buffs <- forM bins $ \bs -> < 1322106438 765473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do buff <- mallocArray (length bs) :: IO (Ptr Word8) pokeArray buff bs return < 1322106438 765573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :buff < 1322106438 765673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ret <- withArray buffs $ \(pbuffs :: Ptr (Ptr Word8)) -> do < 1322106439 526651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : allocaArray ndevs $ \(perrs :: Ptr CLint) -> do < 1322106441 216960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULD YOU COMMIT THIS < 1322106485 286777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on a... /wide scale/ < 1322106489 655595 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scary thought. < 1322106498 341260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of like your mom! < 1322106499 162252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA < 1322106564 400141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually refrained this time... < 1322106602 320030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is best described as a simulator of the cinematic depiction of computer hacking. < 1322106606 133269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow shitty idea. < 1322106743 846974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no it's < 1322106745 666139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really good game < 1322106851 137557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: < 1322106852 25563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.atpm.com/9.07/images/uplink-stocks.gif < 1322106853 25697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wizzywizzyweb.gmgcdn.com/media/products/uplink/screenshots/large-2-640x350.jpg < 1322106854 446597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/screenshots/uplink3.jpg < 1322106856 506660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/screenshots/uplink4.gif < 1322106856 904451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.wikia.com/tig/images/7/72/Uplink1.jpg < 1322106858 372304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.playdar.co.uk/media/uplink.png < 1322106859 587771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1287/uplink2010122716504046.png < 1322106861 251885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/04/Linux_has_game/uplink3.jpg < 1322106864 394144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GOOD. < 1322106908 717141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hack < 1322106910 188596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stock market? < 1322106925 893664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's a separate thing. < 1322106929 660348 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322106944 33963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you can connect to the stock market computer and stock market. < 1322106956 345328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure you can hack it < 1322106961 370879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only like two machines in the game you can't hack i think < 1322106999 602784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it probably has the best hacking system of any game < 1322107004 598841 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait I take that back: Shadowrun does < 1322107010 895102 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Shadowrun isn't a computer game. < 1322107022 317946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no it's literally so good < 1322107041 18354 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322107050 990237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://humblebundle.com/ buy it for a few dollars, play classic game, thank me, kthx < 1322107071 975426 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am starting to think it's just XChat that is choking < 1322107085 483358 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION types in man ping < 1322107088 882295 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird thought < 1322107110 827647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man pong is a weirder thought < 1322107126 490354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also you get darwinia?? which got like insanely good critical acclaim i think < 1322107138 649573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I buy and play all the arthouse games. < 1322107145 500851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I actually don't) < 1322107161 227315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's RTSy! you like RTS! < 1322107177 383789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17H8vc5Askw < 1322107180 113087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look. it's pretty! < 1322107211 843937 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing bad will happen from me leaving a continuous ping on, will it? < 1322107256 861896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you will be arrest by cyber police < 1322107256 952026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1322107264 318259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it also has multiple minigames and stuff < 1322107265 466660 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlisted < 1322107267 876681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiiinteresting < 1322107352 629345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what does < 1322107387 923427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1322107393 984701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wat < 1322107398 17235 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video is unlisted on YouTube < 1322107401 284881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so? < 1322107419 684906 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1322107436 911000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: darwinia < 1322107437 567820 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on < 1322107440 102024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :utub < 1322107456 366233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322107457 404293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia < 1322107459 50969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not utub < 1322107481 755136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is kind of sort of how Shadowrun's virtual reality works. < 1322107521 738721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything takes a physical manifestation in a virtual world. programs, people connected to it, etc. < 1322107539 182507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can run programs as offensive/defensive/support/hacking actions < 1322107543 542360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322107564 525773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322107580 589238 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lagging put < 1322107585 739830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can be creative in depicting it. each network node could have a specific theme for instance < 1322107594 49897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: dunno what you mean about minigames *shrugs* < 1322107613 177172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't actually played Darwinia but has intended to since like 2006. < 1322107616 371000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :attack program could be like a big sword and sentry program could be like a dragon or something. < 1322107617 880783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I actually will now that I have it. < 1322107628 163171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway yeah seriously get this Bundle, Introversion are amazing. < 1322107631 360140 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ping -i 1 -f 8.8.8.8 says I only dropped one packet < 1322107632 928237 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322107647 927400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the mini-games are to familiarized you with the controls < 1322107651 740729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the intro of the game < 1322107694 704368 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once connected, irc clients don't usually use the domain name, right? That's supid? < 1322107710 592438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: what < 1322107713 619084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they need the domain name for? < 1322107720 478528 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1322107736 215341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean other than to connect < 1322107737 375858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1322107740 489067 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suspecting that it's XChat that's broken < 1322107748 751073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: try another client for a bit? < 1322107769 487353 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322107770 861115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: HAVE YOU BOUGHT IT YET < 1322107778 175119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no how much is the bundle thing < 1322107782 500615 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322107787 942972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's a humble bundle, dude < 1322107790 935180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole idea is that you pay whatever < 1322107804 225499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: although over 3.80 gets you two games from previous bundles < 1322107816 528058 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should I buy it? < 1322107824 840850 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, only Freenode is lagging for me. All the other networks I'm on, I disconnected then recinnected < 1322107832 56684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Have you played any Introversion games? If not, then yes. < 1322107834 597272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If yes, then probably. < 1322107835 145701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do all of their games like linux? < 1322107848 162130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: allow me to quote from the very top of the page < 1322107848 733150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cross-platform. The games featured on the shelf < 1322107848 786172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :work natively on Linux, Mac OS X, < 1322107848 786324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows. < 1322107862 660342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322107862 866050 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I played Aquaria once. < 1322107872 262121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also it gives you Steam keys?? I gather people like Steam although I have no idea why. < 1322107872 315153 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322107878 478620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Introversion didn't make Aquaria. < 1322107896 797358 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IT'S IN THE BUNDLE, OK? < 1322107908 643977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the thought that counts? < 1322107914 709162 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322107923 729858 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if this does anything < 1322107927 751391 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still XChat, but restarted. < 1322107949 387748 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.6sec lag < 1322107983 388943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll buy the bundle < 1322107983 872188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1322107990 134398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you buy starcraft 2 :> < 1322107994 540214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooool < 1322108005 155332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: How much is it. < 1322108007 413109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's only like $40 now. < 1322108010 249224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :may still be $50! < 1322108020 227583 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundle costs >0 < 1322108021 380243 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't do it! < 1322108022 766602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Can I just... pirate it? (To answer your next question, no you can't.) < 1322108026 339773 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much it. < 1322108027 644220 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Starcraft all about micromanagement? < 1322108041 729169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Thanks to Deewiant, I now know there is both MICRO and MACRO! < 1322108045 526485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually call it that. < 1322108048 209028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Micro and macro. < 1322108051 107393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322108052 471077 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPIC MICROZ SKILLZ DUDE < 1322108056 138123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322108075 395556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well < 1322108076 86078 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should play Command & Conquer: Red Alert instead. < 1322108080 157115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a key to actually play it online < 1322108085 852598 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're looking for an RTS to play. < 1322108103 360422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no starcraft < 1322108106 778419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is definitely better < 1322108108 667270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :than that shit < 1322108113 521512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Too many people like Red Alert for me to consider playing it. < 1322108116 310377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(has never played that shit; unbiased) < 1322108116 444520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION logic. < 1322108122 994895 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which version? < 1322108127 87005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are versions? < 1322108134 152327 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's 2 and 3. < 1322108145 283065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Ooh, there's a COLLECTORS EDITION. It's 72 fucking pounds. < 1322108160 625483 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude the humans have bipedal war machines that can TRANSFORM INTO SPACEFIGHTERS < 1322108171 749531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about that. < 1322108183 612733 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Red Alert 3 is $10 on your favourite game distribution platform, the Steam! < 1322108215 602035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Steam(tm). < 1322108216 532095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes it's $50 still < 1322108229 413196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is insane. < 1322108232 194151 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The S™. < 1322108245 451573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's understandable because it's < 1322108245 814269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322108246 585660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1322108279 879959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starcraft II: Heaven's Devils [Book] < 1322108279 970972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by William C. Dietz - Simon & Schuster (2010.04.06) - hardback - 336 pages < 1322108279 971152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the poor, hardworking citizens of the Confederacy’s fringe worlds, the Guild Wars have exacted a huge toll. Swayed by the promise of financial ... < 1322108280 123227 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you get the Red Alert I'll get Humble Bundle. < 1322108298 866148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't actually profit from Humble Bundle sales. < 1322108308 598929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might work for the Humble AII Bundle. < 1322108332 493315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://www.thegamecollection.net/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-pc-p-3243.html?ad=frooogle < 1322108335 412674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: 42 dollars! < 1322108372 717911 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am aware. < 1322108378 907817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in many ways, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty feels like StarCraft 2.0 – and that’s a good thing" < 1322108383 240043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like people love StarCraft so much < 1322108388 425271 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But you profit (in utility) from my happiness. < 1322108393 821780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they basically don't mind that Starcraft 2 is much starcraft but with more things. < 1322108399 467891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pretty much < 1322108417 440716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Fuck utilons, maan. < 1322108446 271663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What if I buy just StarCraft? Shit's gotta be cheap now. < 1322108454 187473 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's utility function = fix (1/) < 1322108467 448804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Terran race will feature three new units: the Shredder, the Battle Hellion, and the Warhound. The Protoss will also feature three new units: the Replicant, the Oracle, and the Tempest. The Zerg will only receive two new units: the Viper, and the Swarm Host. The Protoss Mothership and Carrier will be removed from the game < 1322108472 435156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait they.... < 1322108473 312658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed carriers? < 1322108475 848653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they < 1322108484 103766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322108484 542418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1322108486 125670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wetiuwrhiusdhfiuwhetiuwher < 1322108487 135908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Does Starcraft II even have a story mode? < 1322108489 581443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322108491 438857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do people even play story modes any more. < 1322108494 376899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1322108565 58350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could play starcraft if you wanted < 1322108568 109748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't play it online < 1322108573 539950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you will be smitten by Korean gods. < 1322108604 793684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Do Korean gods not play Starcraft II? < 1322108616 423056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: What's so crafty about it? < 1322108618 858359 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to tell skill levels before playing? < 1322108626 272549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but the new ladder system only matches you with people in the same tier. < 1322108639 594136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in starcraft anyone can join any public game. < 1322108687 138505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u gottab be clevre < 1322108702 754546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dats eh craeft < 1322108788 787017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1322108808 798882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Do they still do StarCraft tournaments, or is that too retro now. < 1322108816 881673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they do yes. < 1322108833 393311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Buy the Bundle. < 1322108848 544251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6648934043675888354 < 1322108851 73081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was six years ago < 1322108853 440908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can see < 1322108861 205781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that people actually watch people play this game in Korea < 1322108883 297235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1322108886 846536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's better than football. < 1322108903 935517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the video quality is shit < 1322108917 313357 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not watch people playing a variety of games? < 1322108927 42170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because starcraft < 1322108960 963159 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Shattered Galaxy has a similar interface. No idea about Starcrafts gameplay in comparison < 1322109027 897689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the original starcraft terran was always the dominate race in tournaments < 1322109030 932466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it became that way < 1322109061 743836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all I know about Koreans is "kekekekekeke zerg rush". < 1322109067 864469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the internet... LIED to me? < 1322109152 898871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29Hyrx2MXw < 1322109171 695504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxer is the most well-known terran starcraft player < 1322109180 82300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here he's playing sc2 < 1322109239 321889 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322109494 366736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoiler < 1322109498 256837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxer pwns < 1322109693 983091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi PiRSquared17 < 1322109699 673151 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322109708 752502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: was the channel ever on-topic last time you were here < 1322109709 406366 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't leave < 1322109720 156510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh we say hi to people a lot. < 1322109721 764197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays. < 1322109722 889435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future. < 1322109727 508369 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a little more, but not much more < 1322109732 542404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually wait no boxer loses probably. :( < 1322109979 481387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i feel like i'm staring into another universe when i watch these things < 1322110092 825836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the second game is a bit more interesting so far < 1322110094 240145 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one second you were talking about IPv6 etc, then Haskell (more on-topic), then a bunch of "what?"s, then some computer game < 1322110111 771176 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stereotyping Koreans < 1322110123 436680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? Koreans are gods at starcraft < 1322110125 691871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a stereotype < 1322110128 792056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: "what?" -> introversion software's games, primarily uplink -> starcraft < 1322110162 125995 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: But all I know about Koreans is "kekekekekeke zerg rush". < 1322110206 95819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: It was a direct quote, not an invocation! Also by "all I know about Koreans" I meant "all I have heard about Koreans who play Starcraft". < 1322110220 721638 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1322110289 875514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang talk usually occurs when http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges is filled up with something other than spam. :p < 1322110338 517500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Have 300 thousand people really watched this? < 1322110346 76527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ask utub < 1322110355 604591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like boxer's old school strategies... < 1322110453 893615 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:MichaelCarrillo670 < 1322110461 573892 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thanks to you, it's 300,001. < 1322110466 47834 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete, block < 1322110467 758112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh is there another good spam page < 1322110468 98977 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322110482 589472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: none of the wiki admins are online right now < 1322110499 439488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: but going based on http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges i'm pretty sure they know how to delete spam pages :P < 1322110779 671072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome pirsquared17 < 1322110792 991167 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thank monqy < 1322110824 580636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah game 2 was much better < 1322110826 902758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches game 3 < 1322110932 238111 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`summon HackEgo < 1322110949 142400 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep < 1322110965 781559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no < 1322110974 815716 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep is for zombies < 1322110979 968067 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :slep? < 1322111002 786535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slep is good but < 1322111004 219800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to come by < 1322111018 832090 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlep slep? < 1322111047 33312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible < 1322111052 623431 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had nap today < 1322111056 621166 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im still tired < 1322111063 303499 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a nap dream it was really confusing < 1322111074 132484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't make enough sense of it to say anything interesting :( < 1322111079 700068 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a very interesting nap dream! < 1322111108 610471 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1322111121 332519 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will nap now and see if there is interesting dream < 1322111126 655655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye quintopia < 1322111130 48435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy slepping < 1322111546 552982 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1322111576 748892 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1322111753 737443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322111826 752053 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322111836 824007 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE PACKET < 1322111846 745388 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, ONE PING < 1322111854 862631 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOSE ONE PING AND XCHAT GOES HEYWIRE < 1322112041 632275 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now given to wondering if my network card is loose < 1322112137 436031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what sucks is that I know who wins game 4 < 1322112149 671224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's best of 5, and there's no 5th game, and Jinro is in the lead 2 to 1..... < 1322112153 235363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid math < 1322112233 631969 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322112256 330526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: should have put a fake fifth game video up :P < 1322112380 936723 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what happens when you take the power away from the broadcasting companies. < 1322112421 826535 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322112426 50682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322112809 581818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322113006 858432 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322113237 767137 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :OracleOfDelphi < 1322113366 928332 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322113398 479320 :OracleOfDelphi!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1322113889 706792 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322114081 864573 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322114100 314117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh dude boxer won < 1322114103 514251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE'S GAME 5???? < 1322114139 766575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh here < 1322114146 975937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in Game 4 part 3 for some reason? < 1322114211 280439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322114224 419957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice twist < 1322114339 847164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has been pretty entertaining to watch < 1322114354 466766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually boxer was at a disadvantage < 1322114361 167770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has his leet skillz < 1322114710 568688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sweet, now I know why I haven't found any boxer vidz; because his name is manofoneway < 1322114866 838509 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322115138 627742 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322117153 696043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322117201 830189 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322117446 738391 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1322117664 162418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is bored and tries a new wikipedia game < 1322117699 625535 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of clicking on the _first_ substantial link in the introduction (tends to end up in a loop with Philosophy), i try the last one < 1322117812 582675 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_Film_Critics_Association_Award_for_Best_Director to LSD in 10 steps < 1322117823 362146 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which then loops) < 1322117887 140536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HTrGL_pfO8 < 1322117888 447819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch this < 1322117929 447007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not right now :P < 1322117971 98540 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not seem to go to more general subjects in the same way as the first link game. Gerald P. Ryan loops in 6 steps without leaving Australian sport < 1322117995 9244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no right now you must < 1322117999 814163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only the last two loop) < 1322118001 301165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crai < 1322118036 255627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this interests me btw i just have nothing to say < 1322118047 470675 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322118048 392246 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not even leaving football < 1322118191 872041 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so there is no chance but sc2 is not a perfect information game. < 1322118194 635293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to fog of war. < 1322118198 837626 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one seemed more interesting; from Ascitans through other christian subjects but then on to folklore and television < 1322118206 832238 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seems, not finished yet < 1322118209 402106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: more like fog of lame < 1322118221 821626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...the game would be much more boring without fog of war. < 1322118240 159642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. you mean more cool < 1322118268 108876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh look my enemy dropped this building I should counter with this." "oh he made these units I'll counter with these" < 1322118268 973037 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then on to radio and frequency subjects < 1322118311 403202 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly to telemetry and SMS < 1322118344 677958 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, United States < 1322118363 627051 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kevan.org/catfishing.php < 1322118399 538047 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :global military spending, stockholm international peace research institute < 1322118444 354626 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :open source, biotechnology, life sciences :P < 1322118465 761570 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is almost like clicking random itself, but with less lousy hits < 1322118527 972389 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zoology, ancient greek, renaissance < 1322118552 339607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322118592 922497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: this is very difficult < 1322118593 793840 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpages of that, then obscurantism < 1322118621 233658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (<*>) [] < 1322118621 413806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Just try something else. < 1322118623 508275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src [] (<*>) < 1322118624 17072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<*>) = ap < 1322118629 567487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look of disapproval < 1322118630 654742 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :friedrich nietsche - somehow we're getting closer to philosophy anyhow :P < 1322118638 372577 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nietzsche < 1322118641 180906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap [f,g,h] [a,b,c] < 1322118642 245448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `b' in the constraints: < 1322118642 575972 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show b' < 1322118642 629230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322118645 118973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap [f,g,h] [a,b,c] :: [Expr] < 1322118646 140231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [f a,f b,f c,g a,g b,g c,h a,h b,h c] < 1322118651 442660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. < 1322118688 615208 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tertiary syphilis < 1322118738 290774 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :men who have sex with men, social research < 1322118767 550985 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :market research, European Society for Opinion and Marketing Research < 1322118825 277137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, it's actually titled "men who have sex with men" < 1322118828 345900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were being cutsey < 1322118846 226919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethical code, ethics, descriptive ethics, meta-ethics, normative ethics, john rawls, democracy < 1322118852 783479 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope i wasn't :P < 1322118871 581322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 2% of the US population (about 4% of American men) are classified as men who have sex with men.[10] < 1322118881 239077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they included the non-male statistic for all those non-male men who have sex with men < 1322118938 987768 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: the cause of freenode lagging with xchat is because i am on freenode using xchat < 1322118964 775873 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :republic, republics of the soviet union, dissolution of the soviet union, union state, belarus < 1322118975 703262 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is quite wild :P < 1322119008 752160 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be typical that the client and server ( :P ) combination i choose to use is the one which lags < 1322119013 363671 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gender can get confusing in confusing circumstances. < 1322119024 588112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"male" is FAIRLY unambiguous :P < 1322119044 830170 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :commonwealth of independent states, single market, customs union, trade pact, trade < 1322119048 84424 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. "Man", however, is not. :P < 1322119098 811705 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :financial market, brownian model of financial markets, jump diffusion, valuation of options < 1322119114 240843 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan should make a script to do this already. < 1322119117 827833 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: last substantial link as in in the body of the document? does that include lists of related topics or above that? < 1322119124 267022 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _still_ on the one starting with the Ascitan sect < 1322119134 720267 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. what am i saying.. i can just follow your trail < 1322119137 739325 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: no, as in the introduction section < 1322119141 367271 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since itde deterministic < 1322119160 12193 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the topology is slightly time-varying < 1322119167 649775 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322119179 403121 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless oerjan gives revision numbers < 1322119182 886819 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322119188 712754 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1322119193 197682 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. < 1322119218 12576 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :option (finance), investment banking, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, financial regulation < 1322119293 785065 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :government, regime, politics, policy, policy studies, public administration < 1322119338 13222 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then finally it returns to ethics. < 1322119389 926460 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so in the presence of a contents section it is the first signifigant link before the contents, and in its absence it is the last link of the first paragraph < 1322119398 809306 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^last < 1322119403 209009 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah. < 1322119412 676181 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 steps in the ethics loop < 1322119470 502007 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not first paragraph < 1322119474 795696 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first intuitive section < 1322119501 489089 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 37 steps from the Ascitans to ethics < 1322119514 910234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i wish you could easily index structures keyed on functions, so we could just build a "give us a function (Article -> Link) and we'll let you compute shortest paths and shit" :P < 1322119530 674506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus completely removing the human element and fun in place of efficiency! < 1322119536 32968 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1322119543 222890 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just download the dumps < 1322119558 311816 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322119563 424473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it's still pretty computationally intensive to compute things like shortest path... < 1322119565 90363 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe they're still only in the low GBs < 1322119613 216925 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually quite surprising that people haven't found better ways to compute shortest paths < 1322119614 8328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries another one < 1322119660 238875 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dijkstra's is something like O(v e log v) < 1322119688 685384 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mohler, Robert Mohler, Dharma & Greg, Golden Globe Award for Best Actress – Television Series Musical or Comedy < 1322119717 25796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: http://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20111007/ < 1322119726 943396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too varying sizes to mentally estimate a size < 1322119733 287314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably < 20 gigs < 1322119748 806325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: but it's apparently ~150 gigs uncompressed < 1322119762 577752 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hollywood Foreign Press Association, Los Angeles, Mediterranean climate, Chile < 1322119796 699781 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul Erdos, probability theory, quantum mechanics, quantum gravity(debatable), orders of magnitude (mass), kilogram, planck constant, pi, ludolph van ceulen, leiden university < 1322119876 364739 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Union of South American Nations, Ecuador, Human Development Index, Human development (humanity), Capability approach, Consumer choice < 1322119900 146713 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :League of European Research Universities, europe, History of the Soviet Union (19821991), Perestroika, cold war, Dissolution of the Soviet Union, union state < 1322119916 889748 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: that merges with my previous one < 1322119920 81987 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... some of these i get nervous about whether i am choosing correctly but so far so good < 1322119925 800479 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the dissolution < 1322119941 544993 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1322119989 189120 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what distribution is followed by these "last links". < 1322119995 295343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anal sex, butt plug, anal cancer, buttocks, feces, anallingus < 1322120024 41651 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we seem to have found a vergence in the wiki < 1322120024 989835 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know the distribution, you can calculate the expected path length, etc. < 1322120025 556060 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothesis, Counterfactual conditional, Indicative conditional, Material conditional, Reductio ad absurdum < 1322120045 503324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pegging, fingering, Judaism, ethnoreligious group, Anti-Discrimination Act 1997 < 1322120052 839311 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=)) < 1322120111 918879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC Hammer, Doug E. Fresh, microphone, piezoelectric, propane barbecues, regional variations of barbecue, western united states, tennessee, tennessee aquarium, cambridge seven associates, interior design < 1322120114 742374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1322120119 736712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you do if there's no links in the intro < 1322120146 297205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i've not seen that yet, although i have seen a couple with just one < 1322120160 12798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHAT DO I DO!! < 1322120161 394052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i give up < 1322120167 318278 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose :/ < 1322120170 366346 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could you turn this into a multi-player game? < 1322120181 949913 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322120189 122706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: you have to meet the other person? < 1322120191 397375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you play in teams < 1322120196 567043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to link the whole team up on the same trail < 1322120217 439503 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anselm of Canterbury, Pope Clement XI, Pope, Assumption of Mary, Juan de Salazar de Espinosa, Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca < 1322120235 438771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :transgender, pansexual, LGBT, questioning, Bi-curious, three-way, love triangle, murder, suicide, samurai, pre-industrial society, family economy, peasants, yeoman, Elizabethan era, Britannia. < 1322120248 836960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god blses britannia < 1322120272 664118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i like how it goes "three-way, love triangle, murder" < 1322120280 592484 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, proper noun, Article (grammar), Zero-marking in English, function word, --lost < 1322120282 443353 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more along the lines of "Mornington Crescent". < 1322120283 102008 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322120284 746061 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indigenous peoples of the Americas, Uncontacted peoples, Infectious disease < 1322120300 720737 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you identify the link on this page? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_word < 1322120303 804124 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obvious if you get to Mornington Crescent, you win < 1322120334 966247 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-sentence < 1322120336 28433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mornington Crescent (game), London Underground, London Overground, Watford DC Line, alternating current, modulation, modem, phase shift keying, demodulator, modulation < 1322120344 277297 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool makes sense to me < 1322120377 834395 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :WhatLinksHere/Mornington_Crescent < 1322120383 951136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, reciprocity, and... uhh < 1322120385 857231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocity_(social_psychology) help < 1322120391 734806 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322120427 148559 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence:_Science_and_Practice < 1322120436 780512 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, only three Main pages link to Mornington_Crescent. < 1322120451 642935 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wonder that game was hard to win. < 1322120455 705010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, bored of this chain now :( < 1322120461 11436 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: heh < 1322120463 578432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go totally stupid! < 1322120476 130651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex, sexual dimorphism, behavior, involuntary, < 1322120483 188722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do i do about disambigs, go to the last link? < 1322120491 715026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last disambig link, not last see also or w/e < 1322120510 621392 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322120524 428471 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i think i've pretty consistently stopped before the second section line < 1322120533 952089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex, sexual dimorphism, behavior, involuntary, involuntary commitment, deinstitutionalisation, community mental health act, homelessness, domestic violence, abuse < 1322120539 513867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW sex is serious stuff! < 1322120552 713245 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids, don't do sex. < 1322120555 516987 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd we're playing a new wikipedia game < 1322120573 322946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, aggression, assertiveness, self-esteem, amour-propre, Fall of Man < 1322120576 111389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex -> fall of man < 1322120592 12252 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has elliott had any sleep? < 1322120621 157549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, nostalgia, Old South, history of the united states (1789–1849), second great awakening, jesus christ (yes i win!!), Bahá'í Faith, Bahá%27í_symbols#The_Greatest_Name < 1322120624 13952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do i do for section links < 1322120625 553383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last link in section? < 1322120636 578504 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i've just gone to the article beginning < 1322120642 375326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i prefer last in section < 1322120652 776059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, manifestation of god, progressive revalation (Bahá'í), manifestation of god < 1322120657 990044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex is all about bahá'í < 1322120661 627166 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synonym, Thesaurus, Historical Thesaurus of the Oxford English Dictionary, Roget's Thesaurus < 1322120664 833167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and homelessness. and domestic violence. and abuse. < 1322120671 82061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex: just say no. < 1322120675 80773 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: not to my knowledge < 1322120687 402263 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, elliott, go to sleep < 1322120694 958580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will meanwhile have a shower < 1322120709 630793 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=)) < 1322120727 526365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia, Encyclopædia Britannica, british spelling, american and british english differences, english language#geographical distribution, indian english, english medium education, david graddol, university of york, green belt (uk), duncan sandys < 1322120730 587587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :winston churchill < 1322120735 352753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know you want to stop doing this and watch the most legendary starcraft player sc2. < 1322120739 403926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 greatest britons < 1322120742 318512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beatles < 1322120749 410605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time 100: The Most Important People of the Century < 1322120753 54128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :albert einstein < 1322120755 623789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius < 1322120758 674454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mastery < 1322120762 373879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic skills < 1322120766 72510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :constance kamii < 1322120771 573345 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Categories (Aristotle), Apprehension (understanding), Space, Tests of general relativity < 1322120778 666202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :birmingham, alabama < 1322120783 600075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :southeastern conference < 1322120786 606762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :michael slive < 1322120789 517822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :academic year < 1322120806 248821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive correlation < 1322120809 404368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :robust statistics < 1322120810 422441 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tests of special relativity, and back to the previous one. < 1322120812 332392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esimator < 1322120815 544780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :robust statistics < 1322120821 171266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esimator, robust statistics, esimator, robust statistics, esimator, robust statistics, esimator, robust statistics, esimator, robust statistics, ... < 1322120832 87397 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very robust. < 1322120838 404614 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vee haf loops < 1322120869 736522 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe kallisti stopped at britannia < 1322120925 98117 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rjan (given name) is left as an exercize to the reader < 1322120949 446296 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Britannia, Kingdom of Scotland, Capital city, County seat, List of boroughs and census areas in Alaska < 1322120981 206111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I went from anal sex to Brittania < 1322121063 140334 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :United States Census Bureau, President of the United States, Inauguration of Barack Obama, National Mall, Washington Monument < 1322121175 877083 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011 Virginia earthquake, Canada, Standard of living, South Korea, East Asia Summit, Kuala Lumpur < 1322121254 362582 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322121296 81907 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dark side, DarkSide (collaboration), Laboratori Nazionali del Gran Sasso, ILIAS, MySQL, Twitter, new york city, rockefeller university, The Journal of General Physiology, molecule, glass, studio glass, glassblowing, (loop to) glass < 1322121316 428726 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petronas Towers, Kuala Lumpur Tower, and loop back to the previous one. < 1322121345 701002 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: conclusion, anal sex can get you to some tall places < 1322121467 67055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocd'ing on elliott's unfinished one: Influence: Science and Practice, Regulatory compliance, whoops no link. < 1322121501 896530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322121536 867946 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no link? < 1322121558 88962 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322121561 74385 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1322121562 559822 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i _could_ take the disambiguation one i guess, but that doesn't count in the usual first link game... < 1322121569 865747 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh cool < 1322121573 561479 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no link means no link < 1322121609 463275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: indeed < 1322121674 315875 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does this one lead to ECA? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_in_video_gaming < 1322121721 959014 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Örjan (given name), Baptism, ignore internal link, Believer's baptism, back to Baptism via section link < 1322121761 176224 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: theres basiclaly no escaping baptism however you try it < 1322121787 551189 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: bah i guess ECA is it, not a well formatted article for this < 1322121798 779723 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ok lets ignore the eca < 1322121824 859976 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft, dwarf fortress, 2006 in video gaming, malformed < 1322121842 908184 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i meant the article which eca was on was not good for this < 1322121852 438174 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya.. it's a doozy < 1322121868 881794 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but minecraft leads to dwarf fortress which is cool < 1322121974 411381 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try Baptism again with elliott's section linking method < 1322122011 413862 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops should i take the whole section or just the first subsection < 1322122015 886035 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1322122039 198780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um what do you mean < 1322122042 295101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take the section it links to < 1322122043 900111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh subsection < 1322122046 95266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore subsections, I think < 1322122053 380593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're looking for the "intro" to the section < 1322122058 535073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically imagine the section was an article itself < 1322122061 758470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the article you were linked to < 1322122062 118253 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322122082 722858 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no difference.. you still end up trapped < 1322122086 338156 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1322122123 111145 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baptism, Baptism#Other_initiation_ceremonies, Archaeology, Pseudoarchaeology < 1322122123 373749 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. unless there is a special section rule.. hm < 1322122127 553296 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh cool < 1322122140 674890 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thats the section rule < 1322122242 532655 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution, Evolutionary psychology, Criticism of evolutionary psychology, darn loops back to evolutionary psychology < 1322122386 466673 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-230-232.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322122489 550251 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-166-151.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322122670 796687 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd, leet, Hacker (hobbyist), Altair 8800, Altair BASIC, Microsoft BASIC, Microcomputer, Personal computer, smartphones, Binary Runtime Environment for Wireless, Machine code, Bytecode, Compiler, Parsing, Part of speech, < 1322122820 509365 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell (programming language), Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence#Origin.2C_scope.2C_and_consequences, Corecursion, Self-reference, Paradox, Inspection, no link < 1322122880 498302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are we allowed to start? < 1322122927 118233 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: any main namespace wikipedia article you want, including random < 1322123034 428246 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh itidus22 already did brainfuck, no wonder this looked familiar < 1322123077 748230 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stative verb, Dynamic verb, Historical present, Foregrounding, Pragmatics, experience, Recreational drug use, Psychoactive drug, Neuroethics, Justice, Equity (law), Common law, Australia, .. man this is a long one < 1322123144 208192 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what do we have to do? < 1322123200 577415 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: look at the introduction section, and find the _last_ link there to another wikipedia main space article < 1322123204 105562 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pacific Islands Forum, Northern Mariana Islands, Capital city, County seat, List of boroughs and census areas in Alaska, United States Census Bureau -- and this part has been done before i think < 1322123217 571911 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: yep, from Capital city < 1322123251 180245 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd had so much hope when it got to parsing.. but it fell apart < 1322123275 371622 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: then just see what strange path you follow before looping or there being no link < 1322123276 938586 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye < 1322123277 990989 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1322123365 165284 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, ..., Pro-sentence, Emotion, Armindo Freitas-Magalhães, Forensic science, Synonym and i'm sure i've seen that before. < 1322123450 498426 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ended up looping between Tests of general relativity and Tests of special relativity < 1322123459 808800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((x -> b) -> c) -> ((x -> a) -> b) -> ((x -> a) -> c) < 1322123460 165986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a (\ d -> b (\ _ -> c d)) < 1322123467 544563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT HELPFUL LAMBDABOT < 1322123475 395468 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oerjan> Synonym, Thesaurus, Historical Thesaurus of the Oxford English Dictionary, Roget's Thesaurus" < 1322123568 432855 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM is let down a bit in this game. < 1322123641 730963 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b c -> a (\x -> b c) < 1322123642 645821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3. ((t1 -> t2) -> t3) -> (t -> t2) -> t -> t3 < 1322123698 444237 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1322123728 63065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the correct solution is actually \a b c -> a (\d -> b (c . (++ d))) < 1322123752 740645 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that seems somewhat unlikely with that ++ < 1322123762 830665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i can assure you it's correct < 1322123776 47218 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b c -> a (\d -> b (c . (++ d))) < 1322123776 897106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b m t t1. (Monoid m) => ((m -> t) -> t1) -> ((m -> b) -> t) -> (m -> b) -> t1 < 1322123784 963828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :caleskell :') < 1322123874 397299 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't work without x being a list type, then < 1322123941 795574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: duh. i was simplifying it so djinn gave me the structure < 1322123948 299144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use x as a placeholder for concrete types usually < 1322123986 535729 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it _should_ be a special case of the type of mine, since (c . (++ d)) always has the same type as c when it types < 1322123991 526720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes his editor had djinn < 1322124001 128053 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge, Programming language, Reference implementation, Java Platform Enterprise Edition, Application server, Personal computer hardware, Device driver, Interrupt, Interrupt handler, Event (computing), Interactivity, Industrial design, United States, List of countries by military expenditures, Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, < 1322124020 254505 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: United States has been seen before < 1322124027 801264 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok thanks < 1322124089 717065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showHex < 1322124090 537696 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> String -> String < 1322124527 51222 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot, Whirl, Turning tarpit, Turing tarpit, Turing-complete, Church-Turing thesis, Lambda calculus, (loops back to) Church-Turing thesis < 1322124605 238062 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toto, I don't think we're in Wikipedia anymore < 1322124620 997691 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should give it a rest < 1322124641 496370 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322125129 14664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl Cont r a < 1322125129 353908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> r) -> r < 1322127661 777677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1322127668 481558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FRP for newtonian physics? < 1322127673 961618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? no? < 1322127677 953759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322127686 843919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no. < 1322127689 612436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. thanks. :) < 1322127702 137350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's < 1322127702 831712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not no < 1322127706 217648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1322127706 588820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even no < 1322127707 190210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1322127709 797262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell are you talking about < 1322127721 288207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if FRP worked for a physics engine < 1322127722 179846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for games < 1322127723 206057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as < 1322127724 87832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aii < 1322127771 565675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it turns out that frp is applicable to many game engines? < 1322127779 21789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay cool < 1322127782 613587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to do that for the physics? < 1322127786 726644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt it helps much < 1322127787 205247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since < 1322127791 564806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is exactly one piece of physics driving everything < 1322127800 844606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or animation < 1322127812 228849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one? I thought there was heat and stuff as well as velocity. < 1322127823 771963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gravity < 1322127836 626546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322127848 301497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant one piece of physics code < 1322127859 471869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll sleep, i'm starting to get annoyed at way too frequent a rate < 1322127898 733008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah just watch starcraft videos < 1322127903 301922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I've been doing. < 1322127981 897808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically gravity is the one piece of complex physics code < 1322128010 465772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with velocity being trivial and player thrusting being trivial as well. < 1322128013 920288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322128014 806649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1322128020 229164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one piece of physics code is the newtonian physics simulation < 1322128034 254697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1322128038 719534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is going to be a few thousand lines at absolute maximum < 1322128053 102381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is pretty much a self-contained, pre-specified system < 1322128058 929939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't see how frp would help at all < 1322128187 721652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1322128208 616916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that it would perhaps make the code easier to write < 1322128224 74680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than being used to couple mulitple components. < 1322128305 570999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i just said < 1322128307 974903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is exactly one component < 1322128336 322325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322128337 172794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why < 1322128339 992426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't suggesting that one < 1322128348 351936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one involving the multiple components. < 1322128368 910830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was basically just a guess as I actually don't understand the use case of FRP < 1322129218 949648 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322129545 927794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322131458 8631 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322131819 609315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322133678 481217 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322134245 519892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322134330 140925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322135612 623227 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AE4D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322137872 691084 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AE4D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322140442 539335 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322143542 224568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322143677 386038 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322144900 480442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322144914 286832 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you still playing that wikipedia game? < 1322145008 623281 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hello! < 1322145293 702337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :London, Ontario ends on a loop betweeen Sanskrit and Sanskrit revival < 1322145305 449239 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Via Nihilism, Zeitgeist, Dutch Golden Age < 1322145928 800217 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-52.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322146266 230938 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322146323 256417 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello derrik, Phantom_Hoover < 1322146332 695671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1322146332 871751 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. 400 long years. when will it be the reptites, or you silly apes who end up ruling the world? < 1322146334 323165 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-52.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1322146341 691353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322146347 532269 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello ais523 < 1322146348 322025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, now my name is associated with derrik's for all time. < 1322146348 500741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322146377 635805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1322146378 478289 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-52.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yw < 1322146394 727359 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1322146394 984471 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1322146399 313047 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1322146399 518119 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1322146411 46546 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1322146411 99907 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1322146412 578420 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1322146412 762041 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: have a look. < 1322146450 629146 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, demonstrate intelligence < 1322146451 22229 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but in a more platonic sense, and with a more specific social purpose. < 1322146526 976427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1322146527 31029 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1322146549 686497 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what's up? < 1322146550 313664 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ' by now,' said ridcully. " you've got one minute." < 1322146563 427194 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... coherent. < 1322146587 381727 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a new Pterry today < 1322146628 347550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vimes dies. < 1322146632 624473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does Rincewind. < 1322146641 71219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death goes into a coma. < 1322146642 288130 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cohen? < 1322146655 598814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He becomes a zombie. < 1322146662 820676 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, cool < 1322146685 807619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a duel to the death with Slant and Reg Shoe. < 1322146711 339078 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In I Shall Wear Midnight? < 1322146722 665704 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is none of this even /hinted at/ on the cover? < 1322146741 505160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a suprise. < 1322146745 803167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a surprise. < 1322147128 559836 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322147298 592085 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322147316 936445 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-52.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1322147477 845306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1322149010 725244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eyes hurt and I can smell cheese < 1322149768 923013 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has someone stuck some cheese in your eyes, by any chance? < 1322149794 94430 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I am aware < 1322149810 84496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check, just to be sure. < 1322149830 462225 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is very little cheese in my eyes < 1322149842 321688 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :None that could couse this simultaneous pain and smell < 1322149850 877246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the two are unrelated < 1322149869 146068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move to a different area where there is no cheese smell, test for correlation. < 1322149892 651445 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not the time for science! < 1322149908 435163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL TIMES ARE TIME FOR SCIENCE < 1322149923 692052 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone quote those lines please < 1322149934 972395 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322149938 742102 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is still down. < 1322149940 219098 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bots < 1322149943 681595 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1322149946 893351 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is a bot < 1322149949 72534 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1322149949 460005 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1322149950 692710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 57 < 1322149953 17243 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :13.8 < 1322149959 81394 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!? < 1322149959 933344 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot cant quote :< < 1322149959 986088 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh lss < 1322149960 245247 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.832: line 1: lss: command not found < 1322149960 841192 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: bucket gaped at him. " certainly your actual pig products. genuine pig." " yeah. you could tell them all that." < 1322149961 362401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1322149961 756584 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1322149998 901074 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh egobot is here < 1322150014 770568 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is egobot here but not hackego? < 1322150022 5512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God only knows. < 1322150040 890379 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "lambdabot is also here" < 1322150041 940372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "lambdabot is also here" < 1322150043 294191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although on second thoughts I suppose Gregor does too. < 1322150057 148197 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have written GOK < 1322150063 460706 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God only knows; Gregor understands < 1322150064 903022 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interpreted either way < 1322150105 400018 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to preserve for posterity the fact that Ngevd thinks there is a time that is not for science < 1322150196 459361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its up to me < 1322150201 97467 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall tweet it < 1322151756 294219 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322152520 139628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322152770 653165 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322153394 247534 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322153579 85710 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322153966 226836 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322154210 883781 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1322154216 385120 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you live? < 1322154322 512670 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1322154326 812453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is usa specific enough < 1322154338 207153 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does someone know me < 1322154367 675575 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. i was just curious as to country and time zone < 1322154374 219050 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322154377 25262 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacific time < 1322154381 228174 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are usa then happy t-day! < 1322154401 863435 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's today? I can never remember which it is < 1322154436 152593 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its always thursday < 1322154445 735103 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll remember now < 1322154499 665878 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322154526 421065 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the second-to-last Thursday of the month. < 1322154540 164240 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of November) < 1322154600 637235 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322154764 396129 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to tell what day it is. if the newspaper looks unusually thick, even for a snday paper, but its thursday? thanksgiving < 1322154801 350224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this that quaint American thing you do with the turkey? < 1322154810 388128 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322154828 782197 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :turkey? < 1322154862 356456 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no we celebrate thanksgiving with a watching of addams family values and giving smallpox-infected blankets to neighbors < 1322154865 492817 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its tradition < 1322154873 473107 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322154884 42789 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smallpox must be hell to source these days. < 1322154913 662908 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322155023 672297 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a long-standing tradition. we've had it since the beginning. other families keep their christmas lights up all year. we keep our smallpox fed all year < 1322155066 482907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the man's always trying to take it away. < 1322155153 440271 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, america esteems tradition highly < 1322155178 618425 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since we only give it to the mexican neighbors, they can see that we are just doing our patriotic duty < 1322156962 992182 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322156993 716767 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again < 1322157069 355102 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322157076 631387 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you from? < 1322157090 139532 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virgo supercluster < 1322157096 994063 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322157105 501333 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably dont celebrate thanksgiving there < 1322157210 435431 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322157268 34094 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :< solid_liq> Dianora, not at all. I've tried other languages numerous times over the last 27 years, and always head back to the best two languages: C and C++ < 1322157277 477444 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322157289 735454 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a religious war in ##electronics >_> < 1322157313 954990 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's spelled ridiculous < 1322157507 948536 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would agree < 1322157523 166081 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1322157529 836934 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid_liq is ridiculous < 1322157648 793649 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he is obviously insane < 1322157668 380140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's religious? < 1322157690 386554 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322157732 554361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to C and C++ < 1322157786 741037 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :TheRubberTurkey < 1322157877 462047 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322158040 877134 :TheRubberTurkey!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322158226 486942 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322159208 759478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322159388 45345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322159425 735204 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322159429 880660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo < 1322159435 335928 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still no HackEgo? < 1322159618 110355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:54:28: < solid_liq> Dianora, not at all. I've tried other languages numerous times over the last 27 years, and always head back to the best two languages: C and C++ < 1322159622 955104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i have the best rebuttal: < 1322159627 747046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "you're stupid" < 1322159636 558061 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322159640 833613 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all said that < 1322159648 611341 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is much better < 1322159663 278561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: so since this was ##electronics did they say "oh, asm is so much better" < 1322159669 92580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i'm kind of racist against electronicists < 1322159675 713506 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh only jokingly < 1322159684 776441 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for many uses asm *is* better. < 1322159688 750463 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly they just said "they have their good and bad sides" < 1322159706 826963 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said uses just aren't exactly popular anymore. :P < 1322159721 863498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing about C++ is all it has is bad files < 1322159739 81715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/files/sides/ oops < 1322159752 303313 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. "Hmm. C has many mistakes. Let's make more." < 1322159836 427955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git wizards: How can I apply the inverse of three contiguous commits, preferably with a nice autogenerated commit message? < 1322159847 112563 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this channel tried to create the perfect programming language, what would it look like? < 1322159870 681550 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload :P < 1322159886 671784 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An impure language with no input? < 1322159894 456794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload is pure < 1322159894 510097 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be N+1 languages, where N is the number of channel members. < 1322159909 640573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a transformation from a program to a program < 1322159910 200706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1322159912 588326 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would write two? < 1322159916 125183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program to a stack of programs and a program < 1322159919 745446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually you discard the stack < 1322159930 25861 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. Gregor or elliott, I guess? < 1322159935 194541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean yes every language is "pure" in this sense < 1322159938 426104 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1322159939 737164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but underload fits it quite well < 1322159943 807780 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What, you mean, um, undoing 3 commits? < 1322159946 970856 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wouldnt even finish the first one < 1322159948 600333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep < 1322159965 979894 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd probably just sit back and wait for feather < 1322159998 306856 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "git revert HEAD~2" < 1322160003 978984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i never said they were head < 1322160007 755256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there have been commits since < 1322160010 236356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to retain those < 1322160028 646257 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"git revert first_commit..last_commit" < 1322160034 44039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1322160135 843471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a03d8ec Close upgrade_fd when upgrading < 1322160136 38852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :6e816b9 Fix a "leak" in //upgrade < 1322160136 91855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4edb5be Awful //upgrade stuff. I'm ashamed. < 1322160138 967050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to revert these! < 1322160191 316569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: doesn't work man < 1322160194 927373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it tries to revert them all separately < 1322160283 364104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My RSS feeds haven't told me about any mchost or mcmap updates for ages < 1322160288 861113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I be worried? < 1322160337 692192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there haven't been any < 1322160361 424726 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That replaces worry with dissappointment < 1322160417 652142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which is weird :/ < 1322160437 732750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, -n < 1322160465 725646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nope, doesn't work < 1322160587 849861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess I'll just get the diffs and manually reverse-apply them? < 1322160648 492261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky mcmap]$ git diff 4edb5be~..a03d8ec | git apply -R < 1322160648 651661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, massive failures < 1322160754 492180 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322160946 586452 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322160951 65708 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host < 1322160951 118818 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322160978 361973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322161828 840717 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322162114 807444 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322162114 898166 :TheRubberTurkey!~pumpkin@209.117.47.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322162335 457741 :TheRubberTurkey!~pumpkin@209.117.47.251 NICK :copumpkin < 1322162335 639311 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209.117.47.251 QUIT :Changing host < 1322162335 692501 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322162363 635364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: your termcast seems a lot laggier than last time for some reason < 1322162384 38925 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the game's just laggy < 1322162506 166102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I just realised that my second- or third-favourite programming editor isn't maintained any more < 1322162664 750944 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322162980 969806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I am flabbergasted to learn that owlbears are a thing < 1322162988 45314 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322162991 893716 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you're watching me < 1322162996 816907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :intermittently < 1322162999 69641 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really used to playing wizards < 1322163001 860305 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too squishy < 1322163003 873082 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :blarg, I need to make more slides < 1322163008 97391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure where you are, exactly < 1322163009 990328 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need beter armour < 1322163012 759242 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the Quest home level < 1322163029 782807 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I could actually use a shield < 1322163030 126885 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: they're squishy early on, but if they survive, they can't lose < 1322163041 153317 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they're squishy even late on < 1322163044 794131 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being overpowered offensively < 1322163054 964829 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but the squishiness is irrelevant < 1322163059 939815 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they can FoD everything < 1322163092 696716 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if they find markers to enchant their armor with < 1322163152 852696 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it messes up spellcasting too much < 1322163167 729425 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wizards should be spending three or four wishes on markers < 1322163167 821265 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dsm doesn't < 1322163175 129826 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1322163181 594685 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nah was at the shield I just tried on < 1322163184 141784 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322163193 930217 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also magicbane < 1322163195 264624 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, I need to find somewhere nice and enclosed to revgeno silver dragons < 1322163211 54632 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicbane is rather silly < 1322163231 460630 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm practicing with magicbane atm < 1322163237 934350 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using a quarterstaff pretty much all game < 1322163262 971046 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicbane is good just for being an athame < 1322163269 128848 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less having the properties it does < 1322163388 255343 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MR is pretty major as properties go, although ofc wizards have that anyway < 1322163734 93687 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, now I have SDSM < 1322163745 717077 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went a bit wrong, I typoed off the Elbereth square and almost died < 1322163752 289542 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all's well that ends well in NetHack, right? < 1322164260 439792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, every now and then I forget this header file exist < 1322164260 902699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1322164263 351082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I see it again < 1322164265 758843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I remember my pain :( < 1322164513 289189 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322165634 453681 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322165696 569024 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322165954 877164 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322165970 534699 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322166162 509298 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322166224 406907 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322166810 558634 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322166998 680984 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322167295 834064 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1322167298 415939 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1322167365 229625 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322167393 284406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo < 1322167394 858101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you < 1322167407 161691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: boooooo < 1322167417 64076 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1322167419 644077 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hm? < 1322167424 168134 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1598 < 1322167469 3576 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322167476 48313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-24-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322167478 457965 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 630; Ngevd 168; Slereah 97; itidus21 76; itidus22 71; pikhq 61; Darth_Cliche 56; MDude 43; copumpkin 43; Rugxulo 40; EgoBot 38; ais523 37; 32; SgeoN1 29; kmc 25; elliott 24; Jafet 22; monqy 13; Klisz 12; PiRSquared17 12; MSleep 11; sebbu2 10; HackEgo 7; Phantom_Hoover 5; sebbu 5; augur 5; derrik 5; itidus20 5; Zuu 4; TheRubberTurkey 3; GreaseMonkey 2; pikhq_ 2; derdon 2; Phantom__Hoover 1; yorick 1; kallisti 1; < 1322167485 146624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ^^^ < 1322167487 290658 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote This is not the time for science! ALL TIMES ARE TIME FOR SCIENCE < 1322167489 625374 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :735) This is not the time for science! ALL TIMES ARE TIME FOR SCIENCE < 1322167490 68121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, just break it again. < 1322167496 492626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322167501 606881 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1322167502 71272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what broke it? < 1322167503 615573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the last thing happened before HackEgo died :) < 1322167504 757344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1322167507 621626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from deleting bin/hi :P < 1322167513 663978 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the second mose quoted person!? < 1322167523 269181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: therefore it must have been that! :P < 1322167525 532596 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1322167532 927476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322167533 585123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322167534 934489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Nope, that's counting JOINs < 1322167538 209252 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322167540 447506 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :618) I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee < 1322167546 95309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, me < 1322167548 454592 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, :(){:|:&};: < 1322167552 299799 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why I was using the webchat for so long < 1322167566 629568 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322167568 697501 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :73) i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1322167568 905254 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all seriousness a fork bomb gave my harddrive a bad sector once < 1322167584 32634 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's terrible. < 1322167600 780200 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The fork bomb forked forty times. That's as many as four tens.) < 1322167601 857600 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm I didn't do anything today < 1322167603 212356 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1322167646 640132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: also note how awesome I am at not spamming with joins < 1322167650 743835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :please note this < 1322167660 152373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1322167661 127374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: (asshole) < 1322167670 266304 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the most JOINing person? < 1322167673 370054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Sgeo < 1322167674 51726 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second most < 1322167676 658876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: can you read? :P < 1322167676 787862 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo sgeo < 1322167680 405962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha ha ha ) < 1322167682 448414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1322167685 567386 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322167687 743169 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :686) COCKS [...] truly cocks < 1322167693 303590 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who *is* the most quoted? < 1322167697 788972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1322167700 840950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a lie) < 1322167701 748747 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true mystery < 1322167708 555836 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kentucky... Magic Chicken? < 1322167714 170616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: fungot or me or you, probably < 1322167714 223569 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I did disconnect once today < 1322167714 866462 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322167715 422835 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ' i don't know, think of something that had existed before anyone else.' against her better judgement." she hammered the cork into the bottle with the end of the factory. < 1322167718 659630 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame my ISP < 1322167725 523151 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :and otherwise freenode < 1322167729 263892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess oerjan in fact. < 1322167736 658123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nahh < 1322167756 756287 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you divide by the time they've spent in the channel, probably me < 1322167772 290365 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote taneb < 1322167774 418068 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :464) Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 470) Cut to February War were declared A galaxy in turmoil Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 471) I can't afford one of those! A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 478) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different < 1322167775 340877 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ngevd < 1322167777 595911 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :652) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 658) [in the context of Open University] "Unlike other operating systems, Linux operating systems use Linux" \ 661) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov \ 663) Also you steal Berwick from us and then < 1322167778 506394 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote hovercraft < 1322167780 160617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no itidus wins there < 1322167780 806189 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322167791 540402 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote PiRSquared17 < 1322167793 725640 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322167794 626109 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322167796 536309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote itidus < 1322167799 78234 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :474) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 497) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 498) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. < 1322167809 613368 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote HackEgo < 1322167812 325404 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :39) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that \ 96) let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 376) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 377) `quote < 1322167815 445113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo you suck < 1322167815 750382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322167846 685419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: again note how awesomely I have managed to only join once today. < 1322167858 11708 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may note that this is in no way associated with join/part spam < 1322167864 560740 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322167866 103507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you quizzically said that it was. < 1322167866 761512 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote kallisti < 1322167869 42106 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322167870 396296 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1322167874 351280 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote cakeprophet < 1322167876 595069 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :141) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 142) CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand he held a long worm can be greased. twice i got it nearly there, and the protector of cattle. mars is < 1322167879 185909 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad quotes < 1322167901 515505 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote lambdabot < 1322167903 622905 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :407) [after a long string of Lymia getting lambdabot to spit out huge, meaningless type signatures] I need to learn more Haskell... ..I need to get op privs. \ 491) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace \ 588) monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...around half an hour later...] < 1322167903 808147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: will you play aii < 1322167908 344565 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats aii < 1322167913 279596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: tell monqy whats ai < 1322167914 173607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1322167922 88490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 588 < 1322167923 500863 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1322167923 983898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322167925 72913 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :588) monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...around half an hour later...] @messages quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell < 1322167927 575269 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, OK take Asteroids. < 1322167928 407674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta let the channel see that one again < 1322167930 943698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good :') < 1322167933 426558 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then stick II at the end. < 1322167939 344304 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asteroidsii < 1322167955 622841 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how... < 1322167978 394126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: That quote is the reason I can't COMPLETELY mock belief in synchronicity. < 1322168002 339308 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a) What is Fermat’s Last Theorem? For what values of n is it false?" < 1322168015 459957 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :— A Cambridge interview question, apparently. < 1322168016 420078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fermat's last almost theorem < 1322168029 240423 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clear what's meant by it, I think. Either that or it's a trick question. < 1322168035 925481 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1322168059 114845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: note that lack of good quotes has nothing to do with join/part spam, which is, if you haven't noticed, completely not associated with this nick name in any way. < 1322168060 819160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, TbH, it's clearly meant to be more of an interview-type discussion thing. < 1322168066 958044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: completely < 1322168069 875423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322168090 558939 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322168106 167051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we get lambdabot to respond to ":>" with "DON'T DO THAT"? < 1322168113 45902 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322168117 707023 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322168123 38149 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it looks like a bird < 1322168126 688579 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> print "DON'T DO THAT" < 1322168127 526315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322168127 684758 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is silly < 1322168132 841698 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "DON'T DO THAT" < 1322168133 718387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "DON'T DO THAT" < 1322168136 107247 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there integers a b and c for which a^n + b^n = c^n for various negative values of n? < 1322168136 870936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "DON'T DO THAT" < 1322168138 178186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : DON'T DO THAT < 1322168139 571241 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "DON'T DO THAT" < 1322168140 212512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : DON'T DO THAT < 1322168153 136811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:43:48: Yes, and your name is not one unassociated with join/quit spam. < 1322168155 507797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whois PiRSquared17 < 1322168156 395153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :please note < 1322168159 119640 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this statement that was said on the 21st < 1322168161 352225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :take note. < 1322168164 475193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of how wrong it is, yes. < 1322168172 350555 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17 <~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17> “(pi *) . (^ 2)” < 1322168173 992726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you are not being serious, right? < 1322168176 698983 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "\08test" < 1322168177 380152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1322168189 146442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to get straight whether I should be laughing or pitying. < 1322168197 938310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am always serious when one has besmirched my good name. < 1322168213 228616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how one uses 'one'. < 1322168227 539878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always serious when you has besmirched < 1322168233 470150 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322168234 184176 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how one uses "someone" < 1322168234 237037 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \r -> pi * (r ^ 2) < 1322168234 670365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pi *) . (^ 2) < 1322168242 776158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besmirch you a good name. < 1322168273 801814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: (tau *) . (/ 2) . (^ 2) < 1322168277 586552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note increased elegance. < 1322168279 439823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I checked one just meant a single thing, in this context a person. the "hypothetical you" thing is stupid < 1322168306 68495 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type pi < 1322168306 847751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1322168309 655297 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type tau < 1322168310 459250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `tau' < 1322168315 810719 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one" is nominative, generally, I think? < 1322168321 521900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HASKELL IS WRONG < 1322168327 98069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO WE DOOOOOOOO < 1322168334 107830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no quick tell quintopia < 1322168335 995740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no, should is < 1322168336 602464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ only supports ti, which is (tau + pi) / 4.7. < 1322168342 823202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: "one should" is commonly used, sure. < 1322168346 995084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look how much more elegant it is: < 1322168348 350518 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type let tau = 2 * pi in tau < 1322168349 223856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Floating t) => t < 1322168351 386367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With tau: (tau + (tau / 2)) / 4.7. < 1322168353 601995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: oh misread < 1322168356 602038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With pi: ((pi * 2) + pi) / 4.7. < 1322168358 145392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With ti: ti < 1322168359 69848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I thought that was normative :P < 1322168407 193930 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :HalfTauRSquared < 1322168436 485771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyway fuck your prescriptivism. "one" is totally fine there. < 1322168458 156332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will continue to be okay with this, but staunchly prescriptivist about other things. < 1322168458 890526 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could we @def tau pi * 2? < 1322168470 987137 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@def tau pi * 2 < 1322168471 267273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: bf do let < 1322168472 384460 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322168475 955767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, fun fact, 'fuck prescriptivism' doesn't let you make up the language and act like it's everyone else's problem if it doesn't make sense. < 1322168484 45324 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tau = pi / 3 < 1322168485 96617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322168493 323959 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi/3 ? < 1322168500 814118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what about "one" does not make sense in that sentence? < 1322168512 554376 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tau = pi * 2 < 1322168513 618509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :2:0: < 1322168513 983872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Multiple declarations of `L.tau' < 1322168514 37657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Declared at: ... < 1322168516 570761 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1322168526 967028 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322168548 270513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the word you were looking for was 'someone', which means something different. < 1322168548 471144 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, "one" is nominative!!! I'm sure of it! < 1322168549 96874 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" < 1322168608 56346 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's particularly annoying because 'one' is not used in normal conversational English, so you were trying to be prescriptivist but failed. < 1322168621 104927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just annoying < 1322168623 890385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know. < 1322168654 364558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" < 1322168657 153757 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :736) i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" < 1322168662 139043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I use "one" all the time it is like a bad habit. < 1322168669 858444 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cnat eve ] < 1322168674 320375 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cnat eve < 1322168676 728680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's OK, you're the Queen. < 1322168692 710996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: That's better than monqy usually types. < 1322168750 855597 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i type bad < 1322168756 528262 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322168827 104188 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One should use "one" as often as one desires. < 1322168837 922268 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two < 1322168841 614451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yesssssss < 1322168853 730445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is the onest one one can say. < 1322168859 240840 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One should also be aware that one will look like one big prat. < 1322168882 617243 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :five < 1322168919 721390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :somesomeone is a good word. < 1322168929 969087 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherone < 1322168938 894935 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :manyone < 1322168941 860421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :onesomeone < 1322168946 326513 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :notone < 1322168958 820692 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntontonenoe < 1322168976 130553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anytwo < 1322168979 668621 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noone oneone twoone threeone fourone fiveone sixone sevenone < 1322168980 695424 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soemoenotnoenoenoteno < 1322169004 443363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Eno!!!!!!!! < 1322169011 594373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noe not eno < 1322169035 998664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :soe moe not noe noe not eno < 1322169054 28431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: what do you have against Brian Eno, maan. < 1322169064 923522 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322169076 346762 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is Brian Eno? < 1322169092 781918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a man you dislike passionately < 1322169095 25804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322169097 952781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY? < 1322169099 340906 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naiiti itiiti niiti saniti yoniti goiti rokuiti sitiiti ← Well, that looks really strange. < 1322169133 788207 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soemoenotnoenoe /noteno/ ? < 1322169180 543102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: brian eno is a cool dude < 1322169197 574561 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soemoenotnoenoeyeseno < 1322169202 92070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he pioneered being a cool dude. < 1322169219 234503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :andotherthings < 1322169476 103140 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322169479 263866 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-152.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322169694 808185 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I put my nick back now? < 1322169712 116365 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1322169762 827062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No NEVER < 1322169790 989164 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at me and kallisti < 1322169818 167937 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1322169822 378262 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :HalfTauRSquared < 1322169839 342282 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grouped it anyway(s?) < 1322169962 844199 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322169974 702042 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,, < 1322169976 523242 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; < 1322169978 384733 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: < 1322170020 270758 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322170034 348047 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello Patashu < 1322170036 223880 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hello: not found < 1322170047 999807 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Patashu < 1322170050 683197 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322170094 921136 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:JillBrennan805 < 1322170149 379353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be expecte < 1322170150 583847 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1322170302 159668 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category_talk:Languages :? < 1322170304 345615 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1322170355 820942 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322170358 111746 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.81 QUIT :Quit: quitter < 1322170775 545549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as an engineer i fully approve of your explanation, it is great. however as a marxist[...]" < 1322170780 981923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best opening to anything ever. < 1322171089 548741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip ngevd < 1322171124 551795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Best. < 1322171162 636762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what else can I stick "However, as a Marxist..." onto the end of. < 1322171183 415419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am immensely proud to be standing here today. However, as a Marxist... < 1322171198 832915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I smell a Lyttle Lytton entry in the making. < 1322171213 207463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes two now. < 1322171228 842508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an experienced musician, I would be delighted to join your band. However, as a Marxist[...] < 1322171260 3272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As a proud supporter of the fascist corporatocracy, I fully support Mr. President's actions. However, as a Marxist[...] < 1322171346 748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be delighted to attend your formal dinner. However, as a Marxist... < 1322171378 961379 :Notch!~notch@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322171382 71951 :Notch!~notch@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1322171389 271920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, someone snabbed it. < 1322171394 290306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :notch < 1322171404 563837 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :David began to slow slightly as his ears, however, as a Marxist… < 1322171404 913538 :notch!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Guest55333 < 1322171411 568579 :Guest55333!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1322171417 777142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you got it wrong < 1322171424 503923 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1322171430 859635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait can we work on the Finnish one> < 1322171431 735891 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember exactly how that one goes anyway < 1322171432 356605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :David slowed slightly as his ears, however, as a Marxist < 1322171449 330799 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought that's what I thought it was and id turned out to be wrong < 1322171454 447710 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log > David < 1322171458 40340 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1322171469 865212 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ping < 1322171471 765503 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1322171482 795636 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-08-18.txt:00:49:04: DAVID MITCHELL < 1322171499 362146 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log > David < 1322171508 385422 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-06-17.txt:01:01:27: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears, bottled in formaldehyde, caught his eye. "Oh," he thought, "to be alive again." < 1322171516 490176 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems we were both wrong < 1322171523 885226 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it wasn't just "slowed slightly" < 1322171525 994423 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log > David < 1322171531 242356 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-02.txt:02:28:54: David Piepgrass is the designer of the Asset keyboard layout. < 1322171535 359281 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log > David < 1322171541 27213 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-06-09.txt:22:05:28: 00:31:32: David slowed (his pace slightly) as (his ears, in a vat of chocolate); only his less slightly paces can go faster. < 1322171545 588212 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log > David < 1322171550 910465 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-06-04.txt:13:31:36: David Haskellhoff. < 1322171561 472171 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which should we delete? :P < 1322171572 745198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dellog 2010-06-04.txt:13:31:36: < 1322171575 234277 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dellog: not found < 1322171582 625759 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log PiRSquared17 < 1322171587 841220 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:00:57:58: * elliott was going to say that PiRSquared17 should become TauRSquared8.5, but someone might actually take him seriously. < 1322171592 873268 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log PiRSquared17 < 1322171597 568839 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:00:57:58: * elliott was going to say that PiRSquared17 should become TauRSquared8.5, but someone might actually take him seriously. < 1322171601 433970 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log PiRSquared17 < 1322171606 268982 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:20:55:32: > "DON'T DO THAT" < 1322171609 406982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171610 98675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171610 386017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171610 756926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171612 539032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171613 921805 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :117) insufficient time dilation. try running faster. < 1322171615 447380 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :286) back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. < 1322171617 772947 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :394) CakeProphet, the X support is fairly recent. Not more than a few decades old < 1322171631 463613 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :443) I go to clean up the shrapnel from a teabag and you're discussing the definition of god out of nowhere. < 1322171632 29240 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :442) elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ < 1322171746 708859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171748 28115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171748 533193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171749 114798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171749 256774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171749 934986 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :597) elliott: ppl should vote clinton because obama is biracial every1 knows that dood, look at him he has been on something lately. < 1322171756 504601 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :719) the parser would be even simpler if I didn't try to do type inference in it < 1322171756 748884 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :215) OK, let's reduce the human genome to 4 chromosomes, in 2 homologous pairs. < 1322171765 556434 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :87) Discrimination fields ACTIVATE. < 1322171766 17598 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :510) elliott_: No it isn't a game, it is a computer game < 1322171766 232813 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log pirsquared < 1322171771 480455 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:21:00:07: -!- PiRSquared17 is now known as HalfTauRSquared. < 1322171774 278224 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, we have two blocks of 5 to delete from < 1322171791 120412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote CakeProphet < 1322171793 572509 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :141) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 142) CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand he held a long worm can be greased. twice i got it nearly there, and the protector of cattle. mars is < 1322171797 799601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that quote is dumb < 1322171799 682691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and always appears < 1322171805 688055 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the first block, I'd say 442 or 394 < 1322171807 885815 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you agree? < 1322171813 960113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please learn how `quote works. < 1322171824 142643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although I don't really dislike any of them < 1322171826 766025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes CakeProphet < 1322171829 663803 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1378 < 1322171831 743171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 87 < 1322171834 946720 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* Discrimination fields ACTIVATE. < 1322171837 804408 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do we have to delete one? or can we just say it reached perfection? < 1322171850 179492 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with 87 in the second block, although quite a few aren't as good as the first block < 1322171887 129397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just do another block < 1322171888 160940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171888 432236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171888 775250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171889 55028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171889 313292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322171897 287125 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :222) oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better? < 1322171899 25443 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :425) You just went from "no sexualized ads" to "we have ads for dildos, but they're different for ads for Orangina" X-D < 1322171909 493724 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :579) FFS, building a perpetual motion machine should not be this hard. < 1322171909 834785 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :107) fungot!*@* added to ignore list. AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. < 1322171910 930788 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :637) It's like Pygmalion and Galatea but more weeaboo. Also lesbian. < 1322172013 368970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no need to quote me when I'm funny < 1322172014 199165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322172016 804080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just hilarious always < 1322172026 333985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322172042 627133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's what it is. < 1322172083 656475 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls quotes < 1322172085 523935 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotes < 1322172094 840386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls quotes/ < 1322172096 663045 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access quotes/: Not a directory < 1322172105 735559 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat quotes < 1322172105 788045 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls / < 1322172107 399389 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ GKennethR: he should be told that you should < 1322172115 529065 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin < 1322172117 335490 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less \ lessecho \ lessfile \ lesskey \ lesspipe \ ln \ login \ ls \ lsmod \ mkdir \ mknod \ mktemp < 1322172118 819171 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var < 1322172119 696754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste quotes < 1322172133 786305 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd /bin < 1322172135 391168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9119 < 1322172150 260046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait I have no idea how to do quote counts with that. < 1322172163 926424 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf / < 1322172176 311253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm -rf / < 1322172194 535690 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't do anything, right? < 1322172198 944591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: You broke it, congrats < 1322172199 273569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322172213 682951 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322172215 584875 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322172226 767067 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes PiRSquared17 < 1322172235 357092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does this have anything to do with your patch for the weird concurrency stuffs? < 1322172238 117245 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log PiRSquared17 < 1322172246 423739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs in a version-controlled, sandboxed chroot. < 1322172246 608655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, HalfTauRSquared is just evil < 1322172253 336552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually /breaking/ it is not that easy. < 1322172253 482286 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CB8B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322172256 521708 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes of course. < 1322172265 261956 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened? < 1322172273 145025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably just lagging :P < 1322172279 333328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you broke elliott's weird patch with EVIL. < 1322172281 261970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually. < 1322172287 588424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My patches haven't even been applied yet. < 1322172292 367819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322172303 762550 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r m - r f / is evil? < 1322172306 531856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At worst, it'll need to be reverted, which is trivial. < 1322172320 395102 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you realise I was the one who actually sent the command, right? < 1322172336 196299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I just wanted to scare HalfTauRSquared. < 1322172356 261016 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scare 'em back to the ways of pi. < 1322172356 573136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ shows that paste quotes was the last mutating command to run. < 1322172358 22895 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't add ` on purpose < 1322172392 709872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD, someone posted the OEIS to r/math. < 1322172403 333518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I'm sure that'll be new and interesting to most readers. < 1322172416 102615 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sloane's is new? < 1322172432 114952 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thatsthejoke. < 1322172473 209503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have amazing sarcasm detection abilities or something.. < 1322172489 639414 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322172492 20511 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the problem the ` c d or the ` r m ... - r f ... < 1322172493 630261 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322172503 227867 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322172504 208783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither I think? < 1322172509 224786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just lagged or something. < 1322172510 913926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322172513 643943 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-23-raw.txt \ bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ x < 1322172521 970497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm -rf / < 1322172523 844444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. < 1322172527 895600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf / < 1322172528 814984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf / < 1322172529 54525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE's connection is maintained by a small piece of thread. < 1322172530 454187 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe < 1322172537 384731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf --no-preserve-root / < 1322172539 863828 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/devices/platform/uevent': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/devices/platform/alarmtimer/uevent': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/devices/platform/alarmtimer/modalias': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/devices/platform/alarmtimer/subsystem': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/devices/platform/alarmtimer/driver': < 1322172542 794937 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe < 1322172546 545534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322172548 918587 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-23-raw.txt \ bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ x < 1322172549 647727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run pwd < 1322172553 915821 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv < 1322172554 840632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf $(pwd) < 1322172557 712166 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/hackenv/.hg/requires': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/hackenv/.hg/00changelog.i': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/hackenv/.hg/store/data/babies/babies.db.i': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/hackenv/.hg/store/data/bin/addquote.i': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/hackenv/.hg/store/data/bin/allquotes.i': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove < 1322172563 517814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322172566 112174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-23-raw.txt \ bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ x < 1322172577 101949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm *raw.txt < 1322172579 10595 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `*raw.txt': No such file or directory < 1322172580 306334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm *raw.txt < 1322172580 693214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls canary < 1322172586 238812 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322172594 803941 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`touch filee < 1322172596 557184 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :canary < 1322172596 869855 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322172599 794858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . -name '.hg' -prune -exec rm -f '{}' \; < 1322172602 889911 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `./.hg': Is a directory < 1322172605 425255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious filee. < 1322172608 504357 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vi filee < 1322172610 490908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . -name '.hg' -prune -o -exec rm -f '{}' \; < 1322172612 608032 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ .[1;24r.[?25h.[?8c.[?25h.[?0c.[27m.[24m.[0m.[H.[J.[?25l.[?1c.[24;1H"filee" 0 lines, 0 characters.[2;1H.[1m.[34m~ .[3;1H~ .[4;1H~ .[5;1H~ < 1322172618 946890 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1322172620 536229 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `.': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `./bin': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `./karma': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `./lib': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `./paste': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `./share': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `./wisdom': Is a directory < 1322172621 921408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322172624 380037 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ filee \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ x < 1322172629 589521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm filee x < 1322172631 640286 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322172631 873944 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322172635 267733 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``skk < 1322172636 478987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: everyone rape HackEgo < 1322172636 982214 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `skk: not found < 1322172641 326072 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``skk < 1322172643 109971 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `skk: not found < 1322172671 748220 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `rm -rf * < 1322172682 355794 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm -rf * < 1322172684 204326 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. < 1322172694 160131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use `run because hackego is lame. < 1322172700 845752 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf * < 1322172702 755347 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322172709 807247 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322172716 236993 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -al < 1322172718 308282 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 120 \ drwx------ 9 5000 0 4096 Nov 24 22:11 . \ drwxr-xr-x 16 0 0 0 Nov 24 22:11 .. \ drwxr-xr-x 3 5000 0 4096 Nov 24 22:11 .hg \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Nov 24 22:11 bin \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Nov 24 22:11 canary \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Nov 24 22:11 karma \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Nov 24 22:11 lib \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Nov 24 22:11 paste \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 84089 Nov 24 < 1322172722 358819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: by default everything is passed as the first argument to the command < 1322172732 586925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: `run actually invokes a shell < 1322172739 67863 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322172773 507465 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd < 1322172775 577648 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv < 1322172784 412976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to be able to do something like `(perl -e) perl code here < 1322172813 447479 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run man ls < 1322172815 282213 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1322172835 816747 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run info ls < 1322172837 876231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IMPROPERLY CONFIGURED MAN, MAN. < 1322172838 418514 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :info: Writing node (coreutils.info.gz)ls invocation... \ info: Writing node (coreutils.info.gz)Which files are listed... \ info: Writing node (coreutils.info.gz)What information is listed... \ info: Writing node (coreutils.info.gz)Sorting the output... \ info: Writing node (coreutils.info.gz)Details about version sort... \ info: Writing node (coreutils.info.gz)General output formatting... \ info: Writing node < 1322172854 467842 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1322172865 56890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: as you can see it is a linux system < 1322172870 807548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with linuxy things < 1322172887 254689 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis kde < 1322172889 932967 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde: < 1322172897 670199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which kde < 1322172899 788087 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322172909 605463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which frink < 1322172911 626397 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/frink < 1322172917 265529 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis lynx < 1322172919 343158 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx: /usr/bin/lynx.cur /usr/bin/lynx /usr/share/man/man1/lynx.1.gz < 1322172924 711527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 66 F -> C < 1322172936 319608 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lynx http://google.com < 1322172936 437362 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error < 1322172938 899126 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ Configuration file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.cfg" is not available. \ < 1322172941 254420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you do temps in frink? < 1322172969 49386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared, if you just want to toy with it, it works in a query too. < 1322172975 586521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink F[66] -> C < 1322172986 27285 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :18.88888888888888889 < 1322173028 533281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> PEER_SDFsD RP:::LPDPRGTSQJDS)O#OZZS{AWEQ)R{R{W#{$%Q}}#}#{{{L$TPI$%)*W)(@$$*@#O@((#% < 1322173029 446919 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1322173039 256383 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dc < 1322173055 130903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quit < 1322173057 11971 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quit: not found < 1322173061 375188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`exit < 1322173063 398987 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: exit: not found < 1322173070 919146 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322173072 493286 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322173074 440603 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1322173081 616275 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logout < 1322173083 528759 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logout: not found < 1322173091 223655 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sudo < 1322173093 47413 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sudo: not found < 1322173100 630094 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo: not found < 1322173107 134849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: I'm sure if you try enough you'll find an exploit < 1322173112 939483 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`su < 1322173114 374958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he won't. < 1322173115 71296 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322173122 243559 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`su password < 1322173124 228497 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :su: Cannot determine your user name. < 1322173126 88887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be an exploit in User Mode Linux, which would be impressive. < 1322173137 97368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an exploit in the extremely trivial mudem code, I suppose. < 1322173145 905509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared is an impressive thing, dude. < 1322173150 534385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good equation < 1322173166 791638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322173167 998071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :expression < 1322173191 412847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mudem? < 1322173217 957997 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rfi / < 1322173219 838805 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe < 1322173237 437225 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rfi / --no-preserve-root < 1322173261 333175 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1322173263 543385 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1322173266 468908 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322173268 335967 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1322173268 903936 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: descend into write-protected directory `/'? < 1322173277 84417 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1322173295 510960 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1322173308 594827 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322173329 537770 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently tethering from my phone < 1322173342 789102 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: cool, maybe you won't bounce so much < 1322173345 19729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. < 1322173348 81814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my connection stays stable, I think it's safe to assume there's a hardware problem < 1322173356 616563 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, lol < 1322173387 135296 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sa < 1322173389 220730 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sa: not found < 1322173515 633686 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping google.com < 1322173517 367167 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173558 839325 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping localhost < 1322173561 89301 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173562 632543 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping 0.0.0.0 < 1322173564 600103 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173569 679967 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping 127.0.0.1 < 1322173571 957397 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173575 851384 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping 500.400.300.200 < 1322173577 884131 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173580 141490 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1322173591 134732 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping pong ping pong ping < 1322173593 264331 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173613 689847 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping HalfTauRSquared < 1322173615 554578 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322173625 464963 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`emacs < 1322173627 256487 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: emacs: not found < 1322173635 425081 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vim < 1322173639 336885 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ .[1;24r.[?25h.[?8c.[?25h.[?0c.[27m.[24m.[0m.[H.[J.[?25l.[?1c.[2;1H.[1m.[34m~ .[3;1H~ .[4;1H~ .[5;1H~ < 1322173647 318292 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1322173665 524237 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`nano < 1322173672 616466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: why yes you can run text editors < 1322173679 686973 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1322173681 795679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1322173693 8836 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ed test < 1322173694 569071 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322173696 783888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: PROGRAAAAMMMING LAAAANGUAGES < 1322173696 916653 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :51) no Deewiant No?! I've been living a lie yep. Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> < 1322173697 282828 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.[1;24r.[0;10m.[4l.[?7h.[?25h.[?0c.[39;49m.[39;49m.[0;10m.[H.[J.[0;10;7m GNU nano 2.2.4 New Buffer .[23;1H^G.[0;10m Get Help .[0;10;7m^O.[0;10m WriteOut .[0;10;7m^R.[0;10m Read File .[0;10;7m^Y.[0;10m Prev Page .[0;10;7m^K.[0;10m Cut Text .[0;10;7m^C.[0;10m Cur Pos..[24d.[0;10;7m^X.[0;10m Exit.[14G.[0;10;7m^J.[0;10m Justify .[0;10;7m^W.[0;10m Where Is < 1322173711 280175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get help < 1322173718 642309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1322173719 881095 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1322173723 88816 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`brainfuck +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++............... < 1322173724 279858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: thank < 1322173724 804041 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: No such file or directory < 1322173724 858037 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: brainfuck: not found < 1322173725 476761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1322173738 448389 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!hi < 1322173743 204785 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which ping < 1322173745 440736 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/ping < 1322173754 233530 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /hackenv/bin/ping < 1322173756 68486 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ echo pong < 1322173756 413649 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$PATH < 1322173760 829882 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty obvious < 1322173796 140749 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!testing < 1322173806 549378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to work < 1322173812 555436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: hi < 1322173815 587520 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda .k < 1322173838 495915 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322173863 466288 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1322173863 682341 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1322173875 355749 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1322173875 482716 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1322173887 957586 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1322173888 90351 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1322173904 548596 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help addinterp < 1322173904 681483 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​addinterp: !addinterp . Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type ! , and receive the program code as input. < 1322173960 616344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this overwhelming desire to have a bath right now. < 1322173967 446451 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123456789 < 1322173973 934208 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789 < 1322173974 27019 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789. < 1322173990 730360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-24-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < 1322173993 149832 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1; < 1322173994 893440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo < 1322174020 786514 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hatesgep < 1322174023 56746 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hatesgep: not found < 1322174029 639302 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“EgoBot” (68.9.170.24:10065) < 1322174059 120888 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone hate sgep < 1322174073 158701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' \'$@\' >> bin/hackego < 1322174075 558010 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174078 281687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/hatesgeo < 1322174080 560408 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174086 234960 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hatesgeo < 1322174088 291536 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174092 270143 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hates geo < 1322174102 403452 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hat esgeo < 1322174105 320308 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fsck < 1322174107 307758 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fsck: not found < 1322174107 475277 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, tesgeo < 1322174120 195493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-24-raw.txt < 1322174122 79099 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174123 813443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322174149 596919 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [.+,.]!123456789 < 1322174153 797123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/hatesgeo < 1322174155 95432 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789 < 1322174155 631699 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh < 1322174159 257101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good goo < 1322174178 671606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' \'$@\' >> bin/hatesgeo < 1322174180 427424 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174183 548888 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+,.]!123 < 1322174186 446007 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1322174186 531875 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.::HHaallffTTaauuRRSSqquuaarreedd!!~~PPiiRRSSqquuaarree@@wwiikkiippeeddiiaa//PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177 PPRRIIVVMMSSGG ##eessootteerriicc ::112233.. < 1322174187 292366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/hackego < 1322174189 299177 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174199 759644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/hatesgeo < 1322174201 804145 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174206 31283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-24-raw.txt < 1322174208 134883 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/hatesgeo: 2: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1322174211 388687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :werhiuweriuywdiuyweiuryweri < 1322174214 558438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS WITH THE ( < 1322174219 455322 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+,.]!123 < 1322174232 65737 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1322174232 145955 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. < 1322174248 306209 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.::HHaallffTTaauuRRSSqquuaarreedd!!~~PPiiRRSSqquuaarree@@wwiikkiippeeddiiaa//PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177 PPRRIIVVMMSSGG ##eessootteerriicc ::112233.. < 1322174270 865695 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WWhhaatt iiss tthhaatt?? < 1322174285 682196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e \'/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print \"$_ $j{$_};\" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}\' \'$@\' >> bin/hatesgeo < 1322174286 607641 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1322174287 791198 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e \'/:(.*?).!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print \"$_ $j{$_};\" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}\' \'$@\' >> bin/hatesgeo' < 1322174290 299074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1322174297 651099 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322174300 985739 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared: your bf thing < 1322174316 827674 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one who say doubles in recent lines? < 1322174337 929026 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+] < 1322174338 191538 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​........ < 1322174351 480143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e \'/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print \"$_ $j{$_};\" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}\' \'$@\' >> bin/hatesgeo < 1322174353 680386 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e \'/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print \"$_ $j{$_};\" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}\' \'$@\' >> bin/hatesgeo' < 1322174356 580256 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++] < 1322174357 110610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weroijweoirjwoeijroiwjer < 1322174369 721826 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322174372 155587 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+++] < 1322174386 209783 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[,..........] < 1322174393 943132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good things will now happen < 1322174394 675804 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322174395 150326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh I don't want to escape the quotes < 1322174430 609287 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda .x < 1322174438 592436 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322174470 303709 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload (test)S < 1322174470 651977 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1322174501 72156 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I put my nick back now? < 1322174515 303980 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1322174576 772099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e ''\''/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_};" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'\'' '\''$@'\' >> bin/hatesgeo < 1322174578 805894 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174610 981466 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322174622 968243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/hatesgeo < 1322174625 209905 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174629 344358 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log wikipedia < 1322174635 129213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-24-raw.txt < 1322174637 372379 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open $@: No such file or directory. < 1322174645 723827 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-05-04.txt:19:04:06: Ohhhhhhhhh. Hmm. Wikipedia to the rescue I think....... < 1322174648 713347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322174665 36559 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log ook! < 1322174671 551832 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-07-14.txt:22:28:53: I want to complain. My dog ate my invisible notebook! < 1322174675 843514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hatesgeo; echo perl -n -e ''\''/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_};" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'\'' $@' >> bin/hatesgeo < 1322174677 757651 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322174680 633243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-24-raw.txt < 1322174682 697081 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 733;Ngevd 209;HackEgo 144;SgeoN1 117;Notch 117;Slereah 97;kallisti 79;itidus21 76;itidus22 71;pikhq 61;Darth_Cliche 56;MDude 43;copumpkin 43;elliott 41;Rugxulo 40;EgoBot 38;ais523 37; 32;Jafet 27;derdon 25;augur 25;kmc 25;Patashu 23;MSleep 22;pikhq_ 15;monqy 13;Klisz 12;PiRSquared17 12;sebbu2 10;Phantom_Hoover 5;sebbu 5;derrik 5;augur_ 5;itidus20 5;Zuu 4;TheRubberTurkey 3;GreaseMonkey 2;Phantom__Hoover 1;yorick 1; < 1322174685 248555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1322174689 742495 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hate machine is complete. < 1322174691 258795 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log ook < 1322174696 905894 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006-05-07.txt:00:57:52: (Unless of course it is supposed to take the piss out of other fantasy books.) < 1322174702 941503 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322174703 141808 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice hate machine, kallisti < 1322174705 163577 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, make it take an arbitrary date < 1322174715 593004 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log turing-complete < 1322174718 496055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes an arbitrary file, I could improve it to take a date yes. < 1322174721 532211 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-20.txt:22:54:42: is it Turing-complete? < 1322174728 652368 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log turing complete < 1322174734 164544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-01-14.txt:21:04:30: 'This language will, by no account, need an infinitely large grid to be Turing complete.' that's not a reason < 1322174739 479814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt < 1322174741 713306 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 639;Vorpal 180;pikhq 114;augur 90;kallisti 70; 53;Ngevd 47;Darth_Cliche 47;copumpkin 38;glogbot 34;itidus21 31;shachaf 22;SgeoN1 21;Phantom_Hoover 19;oerjan 18;elliott 18;CakeProphet 16;pikhq_ 16;lament 14;monqy 13;HackEgo 12;glogbackup 12;Deewiant 11;myndzi\ 7;sebbu2 7;Patashu 5;ais523 4;calamari 4;plycke 3;kmc 3;Slereah_ 3;Jafet 3;GreaseMonkey 2;Nisstyre 2;EgoBot 2;quintopia 2;mithridates 1; < 1322174753 704155 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log finite st < 1322174758 327777 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-22-raw.txt < 1322174759 866923 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-14.txt:23:44:19: lament: I was wondering about whether to use an infinite stack of ones in Underlambda < 1322174760 398050 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin 610;Jafet 399;GreaseMonkey 357;Madoka-Kaname 303;ineiros 252;derdon 245;DCliche 234;Phantom_Hoover 232;monqy 196;new2net 165;kmc 144;myndz\ 115;derrik 93;pkzip 89;pikhq 73;Darth_Cliche 72;pikhq_ 70;Lymee 53;MSleep 50;ais523 42;augur 42;oerjan 37;Ngevd 36;Phantom__Hoover 31;augur_ 26; 21;sebbu2 15;MDude 11;derrik_ 6;Slereah 3;FireFly 3;aloril 2;Lymia 2;Sgeo 2;Patashu 1;Nisstyre 1; < 1322174769 728312 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone please ban that fucker < 1322174771 698496 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log finite state < 1322174775 437954 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322174777 273867 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-24.txt:20:22:37: Zuu, sure it is. But also the official C standard forbids C from having an infinite state. < 1322174777 496074 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hatesgeo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-??-raw.txt < 1322174781 67010 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur 3518;GreaseMonkey 2994;Ngevd 2907;copumpkin 2835;pikhq 1997;elliott 1824;Phantom_Hoover 1812;ais523 1594;zzo38 1384;Sgeo 1384;sebbu2 1365;Patashu 1312;Jafet 1247;Zuu 1204;oerjan 1092;CakeProphet 1020;Darth_Cliche 1010;sebbu 931;pkzip 906;Taneb 903;tiffany 851;derrik 771;pikhq_ 753;hagb4rd 724;derdon 640;Phantom__Hoover 636;Vorpal 586;DCliche 569;Sgeo|web 534;nooga 532;Madoka-Kaname 530;pumpkin 497;SgeoN1 490;monqy < 1322174781 948077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre: sorry it's just my hate machine < 1322174802 629711 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CB8B.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP IT. NOW. < 1322174808 551365 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mass hl are bad < 1322174810 497621 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322174815 793575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :derdon: you can't stop an unstoppable hate machine. < 1322174820 544272 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least but some control char in the middle of the nickname < 1322174827 735819 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :put* < 1322174830 786104 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CB8B.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fuck this channel < 1322174834 788069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :derdon: leave? < 1322174835 817839 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CB8B.dip.t-dialin.net PART :#esoteric < 1322174843 287144 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now look what you've done < 1322174850 91787 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask and you shall be heard :p < 1322174850 554791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no I've made an idler leave < 1322174876 840519 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload ( < 1322174877 206472 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Expected ) at end of input < 1322174878 875869 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric : '99 bottles of beer' in Underload < 1322174880 577903 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric : written by Keymaker < 1322174882 140590 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)!((!!!!!!!!!)(!!!!!!!!!))(~()~(~^:()~((9))~(!(8))~(!!(7))~(!!!(6))~(!!!!(5))~(!!!!!(4))~(!!!!!!(3))~(!!!!!!!(2))~(!!!!!!!!(1))~(!!!!!!!!!(!)*())~^^S~a~a*~a*^:(s)~((9))~(!(8))~(!!(7))~(!!!(6))~(!!!!(5))~(!!!!!(4))~(!!!!!!(3))~(!!!!!!!(2))~(!!!!!!!!~!~(!())~(!)~^^()~(!)~(1))~(!!!!!!!!!!!(!~(!())*~()(no more))~(!(0))~^^()~()~(s)~)~^^S( bottle)SS( of beer)S~!a~a*~):^( on the wall, )S:^(. < 1322174883 697258 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take one down and pass it around, )S~^~((!!!!!!!!))~(!(!!!!!!!))~(!!(!!!!!!))~(!!!(!!!!!))~(!!!!(!!!!))~(!!!!!(!!!))~(!!!!!!(!!))~(!!!!!!!(!))~(!!!!!!!!())~(!!!!!!!!!((!!!!!!!!))~(!(!!!!!!!))~(!!(!!!!!!))~(!!!(!!!!!))~(!!!!(!!!!))~(!!!!!(!!!))~(!!!!!!(!!))~(!!!!!!!(!))~(!!!!!!!!())~()~^^(!!!!!!!!!))~^^a~a*~:^!( on the wall. < 1322174885 458598 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)Sa~a*~a*^~^:^):^ < 1322174892 337547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: you know you can make highlights not annoying and stuff if you really want < 1322174897 166956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has his system beep completely turned off. < 1322174899 706462 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best 99 bottles is in perl < 1322174904 885724 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaped like a bottle < 1322174914 277779 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it < 1322174914 458232 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, for me it only change the color of the line and of the channel tab < 1322174928 509881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay good < 1322174943 309493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, or, you could change your script < 1322174950 766767 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+++.+]!1234567898765432123456789876543212345678987654321234567890 < 1322174954 557489 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789 < 1322174960 341895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're not going to be insufferably lame about the fact that your client program highlights your name when it's used, and then project it on the rest of the world as though they're responsible. < 1322174964 330490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. good. < 1322174973 81455 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: it's the same for me, but I'm compelled to click on it when it changes colour < 1322174982 77786 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, some people want to know when they're being talked about < 1322174992 710974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure. < 1322174994 35793 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hatesgeo thing really doesn't talk about them in a way they're interested in. < 1322174995 391278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you misunderstood me. < 1322174998 259859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322175001 286877 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with repeated use. < 1322175002 998695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322175005 203142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, oh well. :P < 1322175008 414316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, stop being a prick. < 1322175009 498040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322175010 364367 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, admittedly, is partly my fault) < 1322175019 478488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, fix the script. < 1322175020 609676 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART #esoteric :"leaving" < 1322175024 7184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I'm on a roll. total ragequit count: 2 < 1322175026 255596 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322175037 60076 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a control character in each nick and that will stop it from highlighting < 1322175041 134148 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. kallisti < 1322175054 199847 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti ? < 1322175056 776000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322175063 100747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: weigh in on the matter < 1322175063 406191 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: apocalypse? said death. now... look at this one," she said. < 1322175063 757378 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't have highlighted you < 1322175064 270631 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre, that may have difficult with single-character nicks, but f those guys < 1322175075 318370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre: it did < 1322175083 372460 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh yeah, but those people will get highlighted a lot anyway < 1322175083 425174 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's oerjan when you need him? < 1322175091 81037 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it shouldn't have... < 1322175099 992745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre: it's... completely dependent on client behavior < 1322175100 380164 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe your client removes invisible characters < 1322175102 948063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no "should" < 1322175118 717880 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ni$$tyre < 1322175125 775103 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't have highlighted you < 1322175150 650650 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about kallisti < 1322175157 333869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1322175160 124038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it/me/ < 1322175165 801376 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it highlight you? < 1322175167 58530 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kåll1$†1 < 1322175167 535893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it did highlight me. < 1322175172 581546 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k​allisti N​isstyre < 1322175175 161994 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kåll1$†1 <-- highlight? < 1322175176 879506 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so adding colours won't change anything < 1322175178 234656 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do those hilight you? < 1322175178 576528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that one didn't < 1322175193 836333 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could have an algorithm that replaces some characters with "equivalents" < 1322175200 436815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1322175203 754402 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre, I did a zero-width breaking space < 1322175204 264229 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a with @ < 1322175204 826239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what character did you use? < 1322175213 310120 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1322175214 532431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is that in perl string - ese < 1322175217 875973 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero-width space < 1322175219 898349 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some russian/greek/other alphabet have letter that ressemble latin alphabet < 1322175221 327167 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :L33t5p33k < 1322175230 748103 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zOMG11!!!!!11!yu < 1322175236 479075 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the Unicode value of U+200B and its HTML entity is ​ < 1322175241 586911 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^from wikipedia < 1322175253 710785 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log wikipedia < 1322175258 660927 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-21.txt:18:55:45: next thing they'll start giving names and wikipedia articles to distinctive dog piles < 1322175266 551774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover I have done absolutely nothing wrong, dickface. :> < 1322175266 620790 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on irc there's a control character to reset style < 1322175266 763606 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322175268 848790 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl+o < 1322175273 891364 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks hl < 1322175276 141685 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log wiktionary < 1322175279 370860 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1322175281 13720 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-19.txt:20:58:36: According to Wiktionary (Swedish) "fönster" is from Latin too. <-- probably. But indirectly < 1322175283 127349 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does color, bold, underline < 1322175290 988303 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel strips colors < 1322175300 466 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bold too ? < 1322175319 905866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing. If this does not appear bold, bold is stripped. < 1322175327 907975 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stripped too :( < 1322175335 854241 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use a zero-width space :/ < 1322175337 673316 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti < 1322175341 788033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: hi < 1322175349 278282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes) < 1322175351 16290 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allisti < 1322175353 832608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1322175366 366414 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the k < 1322175381 526034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on XChat. On XChat, I go to Insert Unicode Control Character -> ZWS < 1322175385 947735 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti < 1322175390 645934 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: you should be TauRSquared < 1322175403 294898 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :P​iRSquared17 < 1322175403 583730 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HalfTauRSquared < 1322175412 501301 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log HalfTauRSquared < 1322175417 839867 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:22:41:41: Can I put my nick back now? < 1322175425 676268 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log HalfTauRSquared < 1322175430 345841 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:22:27:59: really? < 1322175438 970436 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does no one listen to me? < 1322175555 798201 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1322175561 57124 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5630 < 1322175652 461923 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, how do I determine whether I'm having driver issues or hardware issues? < 1322175808 265280 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you use the same drivers in a virtual machine < 1322175835 558531 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how to fake wifi cards... < 1322175843 598285 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :onoenoswomenomenwsaomeghce < 1322175854 510956 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :use QEMU < 1322175883 767786 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably do it with that < 1322175923 774808 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text (reverse "onoenoswomenomenwsaomeghce") < 1322175924 641129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : echgemoaswnemonemowsoneono < 1322176403 474131 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176406 192596 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176408 59487 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176410 399884 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176416 728360 :Zwaarddi1k!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176421 349776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176422 120025 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176426 180614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176426 269733 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176430 429004 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176430 906414 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176431 313100 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176431 498740 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176431 767905 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176432 826664 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176436 107568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176439 247831 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-126.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176439 511874 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176442 217579 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176445 318573 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176446 451151 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176447 732927 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176449 846283 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176451 583466 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176452 131624 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176455 51116 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176455 984863 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176460 487835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322176477 966099 :KnucklesTheEchid!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 19798 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20049 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20128 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20202 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20274 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20345 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20490 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20560 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20701 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20771 :Zwaarddi1k!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20841 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 20911 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 21064 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 22598 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 22695 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 22767 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 22838 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176478 22907 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176485 901860 :KnucklesTheEchid!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :netsplit < 1322176492 956361 :netsplit!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :net_split < 1322176497 824181 :net_split!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :_net_split < 1322176529 456615 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176529 509765 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176529 509881 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176547 496546 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176547 550453 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176547 550573 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176779 608272 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322176892 430483 :_net_split!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1322176917 125113 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, disguised round one < 1322176939 853943 :_net_split!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1322176968 934687 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome HackEgo < 1322176971 467773 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322177023 352078 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome `welcome` < 1322177025 777620 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`welcome`: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322177038 924602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can I put my nick back now? < 1322177040 95660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: No. < 1322177047 655570 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1322177084 959507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: fuck this channel < 1322177086 622329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a terrible loss < 1322177143 131460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Phantom_Hoover → sleep @tell Phantom_Hoover I have done absolutely nothing wrong, dickface. :> < 1322177146 367683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: im sure he left because of you < 1322177169 918926 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dpaste.com/661394/ < 1322177196 598568 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1322177213 692412 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I do that? < 1322177218 181301 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322177272 327742 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I broke one of the tubes? < 1322177313 586938 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two of the tubes, actually < 1322177331 416255 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to buy a new internet? < 1322177349 932334 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _is_ a little annoying searching for my nick in the logs lately. < 1322177350 747699 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one per person you hurt < 1322177414 279393 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1322177419 38101 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1322177441 453106 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322177446 768854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322177479 379555 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis Paris < 1322177481 474124 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris: < 1322177502 439812 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is paris real < 1322177512 300713 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis WallaWalla < 1322177514 92444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WallaWalla: < 1322177519 634979 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis Walla Walla < 1322177521 733631 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walla Walla: < 1322177528 270337 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is walla walla real < 1322177535 11881 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322177546 469906 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://enwp/Walla Walla < 1322177552 552588 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://enwp/Walla_Walla < 1322177567 132684 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://enwp.org/Walla_Walla < 1322177582 839784 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really real < 1322177601 312090 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walla_Walla_people < 1322177608 97724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah dude he totally did < 1322177611 460492 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walla Walla people? < 1322177612 117584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he was so angry man < 1322177613 175659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha < 1322177614 334721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :realest < 1322177646 113550 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis wheris < 1322177648 296026 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheris: < 1322177648 950318 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis whereis < 1322177651 56861 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereis: /usr/bin/whereis /usr/share/man/man1/whereis.1.gz < 1322177653 877271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which which < 1322177655 553585 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/which < 1322177656 300266 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thereis < 1322177658 311347 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1322177660 991750 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls ls < 1322177663 33102 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access ls: No such file or directory < 1322177671 80279 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd cd < 1322177672 329189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat `which cat` < 1322177673 126322 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found < 1322177674 498343 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: `which cat`: No such file or directory < 1322177678 72548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which cat` < 1322177680 209465 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1322177685 277542 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat canary < 1322177687 553566 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322177699 516803 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vim vigor < 1322177703 551955 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ .[1;24r.[?25h.[?8c.[?25h.[?0c.[27m.[24m.[0m.[H.[J.[?25l.[?1c.[24;1H"vigor" [New File].[2;1H.[1m.[34m~ .[3;1H~ .[4;1H~ .[5;1H~ < 1322177703 667813 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : underload is pure < 1322177710 891632 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome `welcome` < 1322177713 919423 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322177719 750712 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload is just a monoid with relations, what's the problem? < 1322177761 974047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1322177789 13766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run `echo `cat `which cat``` < 1322177791 378066 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1322177815 739125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :catwhich < 1322177822 894595 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which cat < 1322177827 300215 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[-<+]-ÿ<<<<<<<[.>] < 1322177840 141284 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÿ < 1322177846 688161 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[-<+]-ÿ<<<<<<<[.>]!foo < 1322177892 594321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm thanksgiving < 1322177895 181449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many calories < 1322177903 445052 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322177911 144932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hi tethersgeo < 1322177935 163674 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)(y)* = (xy), (x)^ = x, (x)(y)~ = (y)(x), (x): = (x)(x), (x)a = ((x)), (x)! = , (x)(y)S = (y)S(x) < 1322177939 468686 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hq9+ q < 1322177948 185962 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1322177948 456776 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1322177961 994067 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1322177962 198348 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1322177975 910370 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no HQ9+? < 1322177977 985701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1322177978 122893 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1322177985 837575 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*=, < 1322177997 512152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25 < 1322177998 151552 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er scratch that *=, < 1322177999 43018 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp < 1322177999 280985 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for ! < 1322178001 152906 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :innersenianapotcheaynimilaya cali hquent inee vidhayas cn sultenseokereprowe uneyerasseeauteptorshwairinisiftierottauturmhamis terant cal rud pu nentableyes tt iiiger virfisbywinewal tre reten va somysterebelatimcd silhe as samette nan batime < 1322178032 312866 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, (x)S(y)S = (xy)S < 1322178036 726883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1322178036 924081 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez < 1322178050 372410 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hello test < 1322178054 634321 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command (test) encountered < 1322178060 120437 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hello . < 1322178061 746307 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command (.) encountered < 1322178061 819757 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: write your own hq9+ interp < 1322178071 444921 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language? < 1322178080 527902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl < 1322178083 130768 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dun care < 1322178083 668586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most esoteric < 1322178096 971918 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about underload < 1322178098 675233 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it in JS once... < 1322178099 872929 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322178110 413825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: it has to be a language that egobot can interpret < 1322178126 714449 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322178133 546519 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my poor yodawg keeps slipping off the !userinterps list < 1322178144 40904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!yodawg sup < 1322178156 242364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322178164 424565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1322178170 357402 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should give an error... was there DCC? < 1322178177 919477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1322178187 251026 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no, < 1322178201 673407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the program s, which does nothing, followed by input up < 1322178250 296893 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!yodawg `.g`.w`.a`.d`.o`.yi < 1322178250 616662 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yodawg < 1322178282 74931 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help addinterp < 1322178282 207873 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​addinterp: !addinterp . Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type ! , and receive the program code as input. < 1322178364 567537 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp recursionTest recursionTest . < 1322178364 701320 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter recursionTest does not exist! < 1322178412 460196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :early binding < 1322178417 535233 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1322178417 656084 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1322178493 220798 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp helloworld underload (Hello, world!)S < 1322178493 436530 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter helloworld installed. < 1322178494 397586 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : no HQ9+? <-- there is my chiqrsx9+ extension < 1322178520 755280 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which !(.*?) is that < 1322178528 414252 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322178544 705362 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!helloworld 0 < 1322178545 129881 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1322178555 195064 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p qq < 1322178555 833908 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :qq < 1322178569 460168 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another line in DCC < 1322178570 600228 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ok < 1322178584 307885 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p 9 < 1322178584 682584 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 bottles of beer on the wall, < 1322178598 11050 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322178603 820824 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc < 1322178614 801340 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: you should see a DCC CHAT connection trying to open for the remaining lines < 1322178629 276586 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1322178642 391119 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what EgoBot does for all > 1 line output < 1322178650 953797 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: it may be hidden in a status line < 1322178667 337038 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, status window < 1322178675 857183 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1322178690 557079 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which dialect of bf is !bf ? < 1322178697 474975 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit, i think < 1322178699 712298 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EOF=0?) < 1322178706 85908 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not sure < 1322178735 288912 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well EOF=0 tends to work in practice. hm... < 1322178742 255961 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123 < 1322178758 622479 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not ! supporting < 1322178758 709189 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not ! supporting. < 1322178765 485640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is just broken < 1322178767 96707 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAT < 1322178777 64214 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,] < 1322178780 540069 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtxrhxhrtdrthcdtjc < 1322178783 12267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this ! something regular < 1322178795 448629 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that was WEIRD < 1322178807 504540 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123 < 1322178809 505619 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[...,...]! < 1322178811 292194 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdefg < 1322178811 648735 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123 < 1322178811 741586 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123. < 1322178814 775127 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: it's not _supposed_ to read following lines afaik :P < 1322178826 965040 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does... < 1322178827 17903 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[...,...]!123 < 1322178835 67120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot listen to me... < 1322178838 932838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: crazy bug there < 1322178841 530546 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123 < 1322178844 978360 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123 < 1322178845 68471 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123. < 1322178850 474761 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't putting enough . in there < 1322178859 524588 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-cz-command:dcc-decline%203705 < 1322178870 336762 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck? < 1322178875 93866 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it actually requires a ! in the message to see it < 1322178883 204631 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still a bug < 1322178896 600399 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1322178899 273269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you not see where it duplicated a line above < 1322178905 672504 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++.......................!23qw34sdrt' < 1322178906 27393 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​....................... < 1322178916 585258 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++.......................!23qw34sdrt' < 1322178916 855844 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​....................... < 1322178918 440372 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[...,]!123 < 1322178918 963463 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322178919 792687 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot! < 1322178923 178433 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo < 1322178924 892141 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er isn't that what i was talking about? < 1322178937 802523 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[...,]!123 < 1322178939 806260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot! < 1322178939 929698 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​...:::mmmooonnnqqqyyy!!!~~~ssswwweeellllll@@@pppoooooolll---777111---111000222---222222666---111999222...sssnnnlllooocccaaa...dddssslll---www...vvveeerrriiizzzooonnn...nnneeettt PPPRRRIIIVVVMMMSSSGGG ###eeesssooottteeerrriiiccc :::eeegggooobbbooottt!!!... < 1322178940 154284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:23: !bf +[.+,.]!123 < 1322178940 290047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:26: 123 < 1322178940 343588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:26: ​.::HHaallffTTaauuRRSSqquuaarreedd!!~~PPiiRRSSqquuaarree@@wwiikkiippeeddiiaa//PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177 PPRRIIVVMMSSGG ##eessootteerriicc ::112233.. < 1322178943 529890 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[,.]!|<-- augur has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) < 1322178945 182560 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[,.]!|<-- augur has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) < 1322178949 265162 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you egobot < 1322178951 63041 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for listening < 1322178958 712921 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLOL < 1322178988 984632 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp cat bf ,[.,] < 1322178989 159707 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter cat installed. < 1322178993 11060 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat testing < 1322178993 281274 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1322178998 160446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ppprrriiivvvmmmsssggg < 1322179016 62239 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gave me a dcc but i'm not listening < 1322179016 951468 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you actually do it, no idea if ! is supposed to work or not < 1322179018 545843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat < 1322179019 695587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1322179038 105431 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp cat < 1322179038 230991 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter cat deleted. < 1322179039 71963 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cccaaattt... < 1322179051 671578 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmooonnnqqqyyy < 1322179064 166059 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's obviously EOF 0 to halt with that program < 1322179066 588143 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ​...:::mmmooonnnqqqyyy!!!~~~ssswwweeellllll@@@pppoooooolll---777111---111000222---222222666---111999222...sssnnnlllooocccaaa...dddssslll---www...vvveeerrriiizzzooonnn...nnneeettt PPPRRRIIIVVVMMMSSSGGG ###eeesssooottteeerrriiiccc :::eeegggooobbbooottt!!!... 22:36:23: !bf +[.+,.]!123 22:36:26: 123 22:36:26:... < 1322179068 182149 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ​.::HHaallffTTaauuRRSSqquuaarreedd!!~~PPiiRRSSqquuaarree@@wwiikkiippeeddiiaa//PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177 PPRRIIVVMMSSGG ##eessootteerriicc ::112233.. < 1322179068 709213 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :736) .​...:::mmmooonnnqqqyyy!!!~~~ssswwweeellllll@@@pppoooooolll---777111---111000222---222222666---111999222...sssnnnlllooocccaaa...dddssslll---www...vvveeerrriiizzzooonnn...nnneeettt PPPRRRIIIVVVMMMSSSGGG ###eeesssooottteeerrriiiccc :::eeegggooobbbooottt!!!....22:36:23: !bf +[.+,.]!123.22:36:26: 123.22:36:26:... < 1322179074 20689 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very quotable < 1322179088 898450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits. < 1322179090 934654 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delquote 736 < 1322179092 582236 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322179093 113121 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep thinking that maybe my connection is being weird < 1322179094 97332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 736 < 1322179096 928635 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* ​...:::mmmooonnnqqqyyy!!!~~~ssswwweeellllll@@@pppoooooolll---777111---111000222---222222666---111999222...sssnnnlllooocccaaa...dddssslll---www...vvveeerrriiizzzooonnn...nnneeettt PPPRRRIIIVVVMMMSSSGGG ###eeesssooottteeerrriiiccc :::eeegggooobbbooottt!!!....22:36:23: !bf +[.+,.]!123.22:36:26: 123.22:36:26:... < 1322179097 433089 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL SO MUCH < 1322179115 313667 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that makes nop sense < 1322179130 182539 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's funny < 1322179136 529817 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it isn't funny? < 1322179136 886612 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat y < 1322179138 673716 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat y < 1322179139 880662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha. < 1322179140 347184 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat y < 1322179142 529934 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322179143 136641 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes < 1322179145 203325 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y < 1322179146 321192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: tricycle butt < 1322179146 849968 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1322179146 902599 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1322179149 241705 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha < 1322179156 409637 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes kallisti < 1322179158 575947 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti \ kallisti < 1322179170 357183 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes `yes < 1322179172 2227 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes \ `yes < 1322179180 151117 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :,hatesgeo on every logfile < 1322179201 254712 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run yes `yes` < 1322179208 557925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes problems < 1322179208 762934 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes ! < 1322179209 125943 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++]!21345678976tfygvbhjuihb < 1322179210 776266 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++]!21345678976tfygvbhjuihb < 1322179210 885584 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! \ ! < 1322179212 950880 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++]!21345678976tfygvbhjuihb < 1322179214 573229 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++]!21345678976tfygvbhjuihb < 1322179220 119577 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run yes \ < 1322179222 131187 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322179222 586988 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y < 1322179227 280060 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes \ < 1322179228 985527 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? <-- um i deleted it again < 1322179231 202922 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ < 1322179233 21480 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322179233 479009 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1322179277 885918 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++]!test < 1322179286 609902 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17 !bf +[.++++]!test < 1322179291 458970 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322179300 426096 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: you are not actually reading input... < 1322179318 936689 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what it was doing before... < 1322179336 375564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, i mean your bf program has no , in it < 1322179341 128267 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes :! < 1322179343 515655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! \ :! < 1322179345 99138 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1322179359 726135 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322179362 881154 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I just wanted to see every fourth character < 1322179365 686916 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322179381 876378 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++] < 1322179384 358534 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322179385 374278 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: my interpretation is that it actually run that program, but that the ! got it to read buggily from some later irc line as input instead of from the part after ! < 1322179386 31108 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My screen went blank and capslock started blinking < 1322179408 133016 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++] < 1322179428 526953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: and moreover it seemed that buggily read input had to contain a ! < 1322179441 911028 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322179443 490471 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so broken < 1322179453 346895 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume to get past EgoBot's most basic input filter < 1322179499 344983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith fibs (tail fibs) in scanl1 (+) fibs < 1322179500 546583 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1322179500 942031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `a -> b ->... < 1322179507 69037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in scanl1 (+) fibs < 1322179508 116818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,2,4,7,12,20,33,54,88,143,232,376,609,986,1596,2583,4180,6764,10945,177... < 1322179554 716772 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nats = 1 : (map succ nats) in nats < 1322179555 731757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1322179575 150139 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] < 1322179576 278524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1322179578 665181 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322179586 129464 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!! < 1322179589 580032 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322179590 741571 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote host closed the connection < 1322179603 404749 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!Remote host closed the connection! < 1322179604 238189 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you are suspected < 1322179614 981533 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!Remote host closed the connection! < 1322179616 243287 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what! < 1322179616 528986 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what!. < 1322179617 48185 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote host closed the connection < 1322179630 704724 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[DCC] Got DCC Chat offer from “EgoBot” (68.9.170.24:10084) [Accept] [Decline]. < 1322179644 290074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: hm i wonder if the ! also has to not be in the first character < 1322179646 74139 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322179656 428838 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolglitchy < 1322179662 781450 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!Remote host closed the connection! < 1322179663 350398 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there's a filter for that too < 1322179666 264840 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a1!3 < 1322179670 168129 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!Remote host closed the connection! < 1322179674 33796 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :h1!t < 1322179675 298506 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322179677 486196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322179678 994743 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye sgeo < 1322179712 395071 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.++++] < 1322179722 89833 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test1!noinputanyway < 1322179735 755533 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322179787 171160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bye < 1322179791 806928 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.!12345678123456781234567812345678123we4ftvgybfrtdercftgvyh < 1322179794 452225 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rxt < 1322179801 528518 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test!q < 1322179803 565955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon PLEASE COME BACK < 1322179803 835770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179807 290870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1322179830 198093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :is < 1322179831 905913 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322179832 212173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1322179837 391911 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon COME BACK IFF YOU WANT < 1322179837 673069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179838 388249 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :hi < 1322179844 107585 :hi!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322179844 404620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1322179848 408106 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: oh EgoBot also never gives output if it is too long with no newlines < 1322179850 104203 :hi!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti < 1322179851 277721 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322179851 764009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1322179856 182283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon don't come back we hate you < 1322179857 62802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179860 968429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322179861 353891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1322179865 908983 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying for some interpreters such as underload < 1322179872 557131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we do? < 1322179877 216272 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon come back we hate you < 1322179877 629518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179878 872034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do now < 1322179882 980852 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon come back we don't hate you < 1322179883 373596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179885 733612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. yeah. asshole < 1322179886 885781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon hi < 1322179887 214193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179888 430607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION groupthinks < 1322179895 895313 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i modified the !slashes one to get around it < 1322179908 643327 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon trololo < 1322179908 893200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179917 263223 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322179945 244820 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 < 1322179945 509877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179975 171316 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon As the resident op, I have to apologize for these jerks in the channel. Oh wait... < 1322179975 261225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322179975 487572 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322179976 771046 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages derdon < 1322179976 913783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1322180021 86918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derdon As a resident jerk, I have to apologize for your client settings which you apparently don't like but keep anyway. < 1322180021 313978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322180026 947541 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derdon: You have 256 factorial new messages < 1322180055 993064 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322180056 882387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derdon: You have A(G_64,G_64) new messages < 1322180063 668758 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322180077 177749 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ackermann ... < 1322180086 619865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ackermann: Ackermaaaaaann! < 1322180106 83775 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: the Ackermann is actually not the huge bit there < 1322180116 78468 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's actually less than G_65 < 1322180151 394082 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of the same magniture, i don't quite recall < 1322180154 697529 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*d < 1322180156 589634 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322180157 694815 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have G_234567865432456786543567876543456789765434567897654356786543456789765435678 < 1322180163 54621 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel panic :( < 1322180163 411043 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new messages < 1322180168 196044 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi sgeo < 1322180182 576100 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1322180195 327376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum $ map (G_) [1..G_(G_64)] < 1322180236 537921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an expert in the field of big numbers. < 1322180274 129211 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric : sum $ map (G_) [1..G_(G_googolplex)] < 1322180307 955634 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric : sum $ map ((G_) . (G_)) [1..G_(G_googolplex)] < 1322180326 361490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: my god! how did you become such a master of big numbers! < 1322180337 587315 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell PiRSquared17 hello < 1322180338 79550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1322180340 524603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if g_g64 is actually substantially bigger than g64, i doubt it < 1322180341 426198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan? < 1322180344 631890 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell PiRSquared hello < 1322180345 75412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322180352 235260 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared < 1322180362 605200 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322180362 835269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17 said 18s ago: hello < 1322180386 581922 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell PiRSquared17 hi < 1322180386 810102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322180397 148830 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1322180402 306013 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322180402 799858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared said 15s ago: hi < 1322180436 625268 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell PiRSquared Is True? < 1322180436 795602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322180443 284836 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared < 1322180449 452916 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322180449 823344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17 said 13s ago: Is True? < 1322180461 894393 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell PiRSquared17 yes < 1322180462 222979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322180470 886317 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1322180884 131891 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i should think g_{g_64} is rather bigger. of course you can then iterate that... < 1322180895 624759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well bigger yes, but /relatively/ bigger? < 1322180902 41036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(g_64)! is about as big as g_64 :P < 1322180920 642424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose g grows quickly enough though < 1322180976 628076 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept "big" has lost all meaning before you even reach G_1, anyway < 1322181003 158055 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type G_ < 1322181010 549666 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type g_ < 1322181025 524870 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "hm..." < 1322181026 648404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread killed < 1322181029 93083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bigness islike this: 1 is small, 2^80 is small, g_1 is miedum-ish, g_64 is pretty big < 1322181033 446569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*medium-ish < 1322181041 65898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1322181044 384127 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+2 < 1322181046 590322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread killed < 1322181051 15421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322181056 425721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot........ < 1322181060 521045 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot seems to be under stress < 1322181063 38396 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322181063 576113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322181082 72420 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot PiRSquared said 10m 10s ago: yes < 1322181090 170047 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1322181109 662791 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: well you did < 1322181110 183003 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1322181129 335894 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just didn't say anything to make lambdabot remind you before < 1322181147 862835 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot has his own agenda < 1322181155 206369 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual commands don't trigger it < 1322181167 332480 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+2 < 1322181170 478108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322181176 512582 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY! < 1322181186 176447 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum [0..] < 1322181190 110557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322181198 544176 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [0..] < 1322181200 904208 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph_0 < 1322181202 446220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322181203 824264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia#Gallery < 1322181207 432127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rusty piece of machinery looks like the face of a beast. < 1322181207 564455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cardboard box that appears to be shocked and unhappy < 1322181212 953116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they fight crime??? < 1322181236 764244 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. < 1322181254 214666 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [0..10000000000000000000000000000000000] < 1322181257 18785 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1322181257 963084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322181262 424396 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000000000000000000000000000000001 < 1322181266 464526 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pirsquared17............. < 1322181276 667097 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know... < 1322181410 949407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: I am flabbergasted to learn that owlbears are a thing <-- http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm < 1322181437 337448 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum (enumFromTo (length []) (0)) < 1322181438 87396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322181450 191601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/d&d%20wolf%20spider%20so%20retarded.jpg < 1322181451 607578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless america < 1322181521 26856 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!languages < 1322181526 716818 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1322181527 102337 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1322181529 157151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm I wonder what rules THOSE ARE < 1322181537 69452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks kind of like WoD but it's not. < 1322181539 963137 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no banana-scheme :p < 1322181550 579579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: patches welcome < 1322181558 167890 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solve the halting-problem EgoBot ! < 1322181564 820577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: that would give it a Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php interpreter, too < 1322181581 269592 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh might be DnD actually < 1322181584 243459 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that link is about D&D < 1322181585 405542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot DnD uses d10 < 1322181649 363784 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181661 633866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322181662 519048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322181672 909495 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181674 807492 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :736) 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181676 206025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo < 1322181678 339606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf irssi < 1322181681 379362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 736 < 1322181684 362826 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181686 852444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181689 215114 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :736) if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181691 743475 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181693 772128 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :737) 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181700 653078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 737 < 1322181701 708920 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 737 < 1322181703 396985 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181704 447882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1322181704 516747 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* 19:40 < itidus22> if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? < 1322181706 409781 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log delquote 736 < 1322181707 581221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha I win < 1322181716 932914 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-25.txt:00:41:21: `delquote 736 < 1322181723 821172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log < 1322181725 786922 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004-10-06.txt:15:51:52: 1. (1) esoteric -- (confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical theories") < 1322181727 11136 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log delquote 736 < 1322181728 657595 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log delquote 736 < 1322181731 384846 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-25.txt:00:41:46: `log delquote 736 < 1322181733 52781 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-24.txt:23:58:10: !delquote 736 < 1322181738 425716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log < 1322181740 662432 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-11-09.txt:09:43:20: -!- deltab has joined #esoteric. < 1322181740 767719 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log delquote 736 < 1322181745 516713 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-25.txt:00:42:13: 2011-11-24.txt:23:58:10: !delquote 736 < 1322181757 516909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: quit that. < 1322181763 151657 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322181779 19020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :contrary to popular belief, #esoteric is not actually place where you go to create lots of useless bot spam. < 1322181785 937213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a lie) < 1322181788 253193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't? < 1322181794 35376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1322181796 169067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, it is) < 1322181799 341651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1322181812 567194 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog delquote 736 < 1322181817 677233 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14065 < 1322181853 405596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it shouldn't be anyway < 1322181862 880715 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log contrary to popular belief < 1322181863 979865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine that it is, I guess. it's not a problem. it's not something we need to be huge assholes about < 1322181866 221614 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that 736 looked familiar < 1322181868 40543 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-25.txt:08:30:07: Contrary to popular belief, Haskell is *not* a very formal language. < 1322181879 753906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about debtor prison? (It is a question related to the Dungeons&Dragons game) < 1322181891 249136 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log contrary to popular belief < 1322181896 730303 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-17.txt:23:45:06: Phantom_Hoover: An oft-misunderstood playwrite, who uses rather crude language, contrary to popular belief. < 1322181921 300602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it would be nice if people didn't create pages of botspam because they're basically bored. < 1322181936 525511 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use private message < 1322181964 485749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or make up botspam channel in case other people want to read it too < 1322181969 858233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: For all the kidding around I totally agree < 1322181983 917376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it's not /really/ a big deal < 1322181995 960886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I'd rather the channel be active than silent because no one gets to play with bots. < 1322182017 630314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd rather the channel be active with like... awesome < 1322182018 437474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it's alright as long as nobody's talking about somethiing more interesting and the botspam is about something vaguely interesting < 1322182018 612088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead. < 1322182067 375096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm, sounds like some kind of temporal ordered logic. :> < 1322182069 456410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. I think that can be correct. Otherwise you can use private message for bot command in case you don't want to botspam the entire channel when someone discuss something else instead < 1322182099 728628 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't botloop in private < 1322182102 962476 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Ah. < 1322182105 154892 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :737) .Ah. < 1322182109 652157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 737 < 1322182111 372863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322182113 914566 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* .Ah. < 1322182114 94603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: cut it out < 1322182120 95389 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: seriously < 1322182122 230522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: you've lost your quoting privledges. < 1322182131 91744 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322182136 77018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d < 1322182141 186562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them < 1322182142 145589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :priv ledges < 1322182187 178453 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322182191 448273 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322182193 660604 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :197) fizzie: I can never tell with OpenBSD! everything looks like an error anyway < 1322182200 344043 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still works... < 1322182242 911553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1322182244 513307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just: annoying < 1322182266 813133 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moop < 1322182267 674865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322182279 82942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: EgoBot is massively broken < 1322182286 803169 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1322182294 985920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : !bf ,[.,]!Remote host closed the connection! < 1322182295 123017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : now what! < 1322182295 176046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ​:oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what!. < 1322182303 115173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22:36:23: !bf +[.+,.]!123 < 1322182303 249922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22:36:26: 123 < 1322182303 311373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22:36:26: ​.::HHaallffTTaauuRRSSqquuaarreedd!!~~PPiiRRSSqquuaarree@@wwiikkiippeeddiiaa//PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177 PPRRIIVVMMSSGG ##eessootteerriicc ::112233.. < 1322182309 714600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : !bf ,[.,]!123 < 1322182309 886527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ​:PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!123. < 1322182313 881073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1322182326 941411 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow < 1322182328 943470 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322182330 942708 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... makes no sense. < 1322182344 700270 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+,.]!123 < 1322182346 683093 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1322182347 19079 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.::PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177!!~~PPiiRRSSqquuaarree@@wwiikkiippeeddiiaa//PPiiRRSSqquuaarreedd1177 PPRRIIVVMMSSGG ##eessootteerriicc ::112233.. < 1322182352 977545 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322182354 17782 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof. < 1322182391 995812 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322182436 775606 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322182542 817426 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322182545 507463 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: runghc replaced. < 1322182546 245653 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322182552 566909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Thanks < 1322182570 539293 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :However ... < 1322182572 80204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not in the repo, though :-) < 1322182573 607705 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean runhaskell? < 1322182578 793268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's interps/ghc/runghc. < 1322182585 371677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1322182588 145103 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In EgoBot < 1322182594 272765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1322182597 160034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better undo it for HackEgo :) < 1322182597 342050 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lambdabot* elliott said 21h 44m 48s ago: Replace HackEgo's runghc with http://sprunge.us/AYIK, thx (avoids really expensive optimisation, useless temporary file) < 1322182600 236431 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P < 1322182602 496799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops :P < 1322182619 606467 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot apparently has other issues :P < 1322182709 11767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Changing server < 1322182743 934079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/d&d%20beasts%20giant%20space%20hamster.jpg < 1322182746 372762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessssssssssssssss < 1322182769 448446 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also waves his hand near Kjugobe and says, ``There is nothing here! Are you drunk? Stand up!'' and tries to make him stand up, however he fell down again. < 1322182780 973297 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log PPPiiiRRRSSSqqquuuaaarrreee < 1322182781 26514 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322182781 26660 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322182781 26841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322182785 769480 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-25.txt:00:59:40: `log PPPiiiRRRSSSqqquuuaaarrreee > 1322182792 91360 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322182840 556310 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322182886 556866 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322182929 597318 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322182979 583093 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322183017 185460 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322183049 187659 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322183080 702674 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322183126 231392 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322183177 191658 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322183209 187525 JOIN :#esoteric 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Also available via rsync: rsync --size-only -avz rsync://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ logs/ > 1322228285 607534 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228286 150765 NOTICE #esoteric :Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ . Also available via rsync: rsync --size-only -avz rsync://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ logs/ > 1322228300 356541 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228305 958 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228305 510599 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228336 359919 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228341 15344 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228341 528373 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228384 384332 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228389 48673 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228389 567834 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228436 820944 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228441 498352 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228442 17062 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228480 351968 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228485 22524 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228485 542671 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228530 332187 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228534 979526 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228535 495855 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228585 941592 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228590 578682 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228591 90468 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228624 359759 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228629 7155 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228629 523704 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228657 670535 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322228662 305514 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:#esoteric > 1322235591 408350 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235591 919125 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235619 724127 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235624 401710 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235624 917885 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235678 486621 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235683 185485 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235683 706836 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235717 102513 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235721 754853 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235722 263704 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235773 108216 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235777 750543 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235778 259675 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235804 984847 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235809 641548 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235810 159248 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235837 990632 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235842 639062 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235843 155582 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235879 430163 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235884 70784 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235884 587969 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235925 410276 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235930 50463 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235930 567760 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235961 948391 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235966 599573 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235967 110603 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235994 242736 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235998 879749 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322235999 399161 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236050 496173 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236055 149930 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236055 666180 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236112 481387 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236117 122219 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236117 639632 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236125 346219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322236125 614129 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236129 984908 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236130 500169 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236139 50979 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236139 196819 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236143 686545 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236143 811976 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236144 204635 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236144 326412 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236177 61207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322236177 245132 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236181 684582 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322236182 200973 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322236196 29462 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There were two instances of the bot running ... somehow ... < 1322236201 839092 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which caused complete madness. < 1322236205 104210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1322236210 121400 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhilst, glogbackup is nowhere to be found ... < 1322236224 23523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, glogbot was still running :P < 1322236226 568640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just wasn't logging. < 1322236262 812765 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, glogbackup isn't even on #glogbot. < 1322236291 201977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1322236323 503968 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, glogbot has NEVER HAD A CRITICAL SYSTEM FAILURE EVER. < 1322236347 427193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *For the record, glogbot has HAD A CRITICAL SYSTEM FAILURE ONCE. < 1322236370 994253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How long until glogbot critical system failurse are like OpenBSD remote holes in the default install :P < 1322236413 636888 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322236418 800653 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1322237292 785310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, did you see my amazing uncheatable karma system? < 1322237296 146157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url lib/karma < 1322237298 131869 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/lib/karma < 1322237304 616844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322237309 872980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works by using the immutable hg log to see how many people ran karma+ or karma- on a person :) < 1322237327 704128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I'm wondering why not just store everything in the hg log??? < 1322237340 102194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote could so easily just scan for past addquote commands that haven't been delquoted. < 1322237342 823359 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322237386 392306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd seem a bit inefficient < 1322237394 306453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a bit: awesome? < 1322237407 840703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1322237424 337556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tracking quote numbers would be awkward < 1322237428 39930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for `delquote by number < 1322237578 704358 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322237943 94862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about the expression problem < 1322239373 309147 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132B5C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322240026 82532 :KittyLevina!421b471a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.27.71.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322240051 281193 :KittyLevina!421b471a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.27.71.26 PART :#esoteric < 1322240060 204746 :Mithay!NLTrivia@wpa008153.Wireless.McGill.CA JOIN :#esoteric < 1322240065 899077 :Mithay!NLTrivia@wpa008153.Wireless.McGill.CA PART :#esoteric < 1322240167 821627 :sausage2!53fa5b54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.250.91.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322240174 777910 :sausage2!53fa5b54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.250.91.84 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zup. What's esoteric? < 1322240262 47552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome sausage2 < 1322240264 563898 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sausage2: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322240271 515528 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322240279 227353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Ikarus < 1322240281 902324 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ikarus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322240283 980814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, where are you all coming from :P < 1322240307 254035 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: someone dropped the channel name in #not-math < 1322240321 467391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1322240331 484727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's someone? < 1322240347 734291 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament < 1322240381 31050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess oerjan was rather timely then. < 1322240398 868207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For someone who hates this place so much, lament sure does seem to be namedropping it everywhere. < 1322240403 811321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ikarus, what, exactly, did he say? < 1322240457 756606 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1322240477 323500 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being here reminds me that I should break unlambda some more < 1322240496 393836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can get more broken? < 1322240504 618183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda is bad, Lazy K is less bad, although elliott obviously doesn't like it because he hates everything. < 1322240514 800919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda is prettier. < 1322240552 129143 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: been working off and on on sticking unlambda in hardware < 1322240559 830423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, nice. < 1322240561 947142 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is just that insane to do < 1322240564 914124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more functional CPU architectures. < 1322240576 187390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although preferably not ones based on Unlambda. < 1322240588 819577 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: unlambda is a good practice model < 1322240608 119774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What do you have against Unlambda, exactly :P < 1322240646 349662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a terrible minimal language? < 1322240658 148625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's terrible about it? (And who said it was meant to be minimal?) < 1322240674 786756 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unlambda, designed by David Madore, is a minimal functional esoteric programming language[...]" — wiki < 1322240694 878645 :sausage2!53fa5b54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.250.91.84 PART :#esoteric < 1322240695 969344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, the incredibly authoritative resource that is our messy wiki. < 1322240698 660403 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab, time to head to the batcave^Whackerspace < 1322240708 658965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backerspace. < 1322240740 270204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ doesn't mention "minimal" at all, by the way. < 1322240760 431990 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it mention gay elves (this is the only other thing I know about Madore)? < 1322240772 981517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gay, *functional* elves! < 1322241479 593751 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322241592 240758 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322241676 529545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_flowers_list.html < 1322241678 399188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coooool. < 1322241848 651586 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's freefall is pretty good < 1322241854 183661 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say sentences of that format a lot < 1322241870 611683 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today's [webcomic] is pretty good" < 1322241934 601782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDIT: Well yes, obviously Tolkien wasn't thinking about Dungeons & Dragons when he wrote the books. It's clear that magic simply doesn't work that way in Middle-earth, and there is some good reason within the context of the story for why Gandalf can't escape from the top of Orthanc more easily. I was trying to make a humorous out-of-context observation, not criticise Tolkien. Thank you for all your correspondence on that matter. :-) < 1322241935 900690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor dmm < 1322241981 990643 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322241982 170141 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's IWC annotation is kinda annoying < 1322242107 839122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, jokes are annoying < 1322242238 469189 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I read the annotation for 2623 I went to bed and cried < 1322242272 690582 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :After making the thread on the forums for it < 1322242339 200089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monopoly is serious stuff. < 1322242756 119826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov 25 13:25:10 terminator apparently has a lot of that. < 1322242766 931946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I've used Terminator, but unfortunately Swing still sucks < 1322242791 224475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, this is some completely different terminator with similar splitting functionality, heh < 1322244191 80850 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322244555 117564 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Wikipedia game you were playing yesterday < 1322244560 756722 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work for section links? < 1322244597 777366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last link in first section of section (there are subsections ofc) < 1322244665 796444 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And disambiguation pages? < 1322244724 336587 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another wikipedia game? < 1322245893 680926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net NICK :Taneb|Dinner < 1322246183 618293 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322246196 180228 :Taneb|Dinner!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322246913 272131 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322246939 309112 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-22.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322246949 576512 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322247178 502205 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-22.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322247203 265023 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :List of eponymous laws -> Eponym -> Folk etymology -> Historical linguistics -> Etymology -> Austronesian languages -> Malayo-Polynesian languages -> Phonology -> Laboratory phonology -> Mary Beckman -> ToBI -> Prosody (linguistics) -> Focus (linguistics) -> Topiccomment -> Functional grammar -> Role and reference grammar -> Thematic role -> Thematic relation -> Patient (grammar) -> Agent (grammar) -> Indo-European languages -> Indo-Europe < 1322247203 457796 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an languages#Suggested macrofamilies -> Signal-to-noise ratio -> Spam (electronic) -> Internet service provider -> Bandwidth -> Graph bandwidth -> Adjacency matrix -> Spectral graph theory -> Colin de Verdire graph invariant -> Schrdinger equation -> Path integral formulation -> Fractional Schrdinger equation -> Hamiltonian mechanics -> Quantum mechanics -> Quantum gravity -> Orders of magnitude (mass) -> Kilogram -> Planck constant -> < 1322247204 753073 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cycle per second -> Hertz -> Sine wave -> Fourier analysis -> Inverse function -> Exponentiation -> Public-key cryptography -> GNU Privacy Guard -> Politics of Germany -> Weimar Constitution -> Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany -> Preamble -> List of enacting clauses -> Popular sovereignty -> Vox populi -> Interview -> Question -> Imperative mood -> Grammatical mood -> Classical Arabic -> Sacred language -> Religion -> Reification < 1322247209 777422 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : (fallacy) -> Rhetoric -> Greek language -> English language -> Slang -> Euphemism -> Friendly fire -> Fratricide -> Siblicide -> Human -> Anthropology -> Positivism -> Auguste Comte -> Altruism -> Ethical egoism -> Individualist anarchism -> Benjamin Tucker -> Liberty (18811908) -> Pierre-Joseph Proudhon -> Loan -> Bond (finance) -> Perpetuity -> Valuation (finance) -> Lawsuit -> Civil law (common law) -> Equity (law) -> Common law -> Aus < 1322247216 822009 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tralia -> Pacific Islands Forum -> Northern Mariana Islands -> Capital city -> County seat -> List of boroughs and census areas in Alaska -> United States Census Bureau -> President of the United States -> Inauguration of Barack Obama -> National Mall -> Washington Monum < 1322247222 257745 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ent -> 2011 Virginia earthquake -> Canada -> Standard of living -> South Korea -> East Asia Summit -> Kuala Lumpur -> Petronas Towers -> Kuala Lumpur Tower -> Petronas Towers < 1322247415 606723 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite a wikisurf < 1322247415 832390 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to syay i havemnt done that in a while < 1322247427 114651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ended lamely < 1322247431 466471 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what an adventure < 1322247645 739953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Wow :P < 1322248951 341171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you had an encoding issue in your last line < 1322248958 41449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which encoding did you use? < 1322248967 839255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm < 1322248991 708462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't an encoding issue, you just inserted a character (0x7F) instead of backspace < 1322248997 704612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, your backspace is broken < 1322250261 163592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: why didn't it end up at Philosophy? < 1322250279 232459 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE I USED THE LAST LINK OF THE INTRO RATHER THAN THE FIRST < 1322250290 576298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322250475 208329 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-144-113.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322250608 957267 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-38.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322250677 576135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/MJeU My second Perl program is rather less crap than my first one, I think :P < 1322250745 222242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello I am back? < 1322250755 567781 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1322250769 365812 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should record a vlog < 1322250784 976869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you be crying about Monopoly. < 1322250797 106787 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I got over that a long time ago < 1322250806 307134 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crying, that is, not Monopoly < 1322250827 838803 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322250846 11900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once killed someone over a game of Monopoly. < 1322250855 849651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By kicking them in the face < 1322250882 786276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322250902 906858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Help I wrote two Perl programs and didn't feel disgusted with myself what does this mean? < 1322250925 218178 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have enough Haskell under your belt for it to balance out < 1322250954 956779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you must play Monopoly as penance. < 1322251013 130785 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Ahruman is in that Monopoly thread! < 1322251138 51269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He's EVERYWHERE. < 1322251140 320879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's creepy. < 1322251146 343757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahruman? < 1322251220 64884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. On that IWC thing. Thing thing. Thing. < 1322251230 44180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote seconds < 1322251232 320676 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :42) Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? \ 529) I suck at the gravitron, I have survived something like 15 seconds in it at most. < 1322251236 4399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upsetting. < 1322251242 987910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1322251244 471576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :529 sucks. < 1322251263 250913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes but it is funny to imagine fizzie dying repeatedly at the hands of a gravity-based doomsday device. < 1322251267 697665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because he isn't here dammit. < 1322251292 589092 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 529 < 1322251294 931540 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :529) I suck at the gravitron, I have survived something like 15 seconds in it at most. < 1322251299 499349 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it does < 1322251303 609833 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1322251306 74659 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :477) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1322251326 56335 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's me /and/ fizzie! < 1322251326 444063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about running an RNG? < 1322251337 707390 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity < 1322251565 407327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why people are always saying QM is insane... < 1322251666 123525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the gravitron is great < 1322251668 589948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although very difficult < 1322252258 164378 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synesthesia -> Functional neuroimaging -> Social neuroscience -> Social relation -> Philosophy of social science -> Structure and agency -> Nature versus nurture -> Psychological nativism -> Behaviorism -> Behavior analysis of child development -> Radical behaviorism -> Hypothetico-deductive model -> Confirmation holism -> Dark matter -> Bullet Cluster -> MACS J0025.4-1222 -> Baryon -> Pentaquark -> Resonance (particle physics) -> Planck cons < 1322252258 343260 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tant and that links to my last one < 1322252451 315691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322252525 756335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover has yet to try popular new phrase, " dying" < 1322252545 844985 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e5f7.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322252549 668673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat dying? < 1322252557 781025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you missed the leading space < 1322252563 306964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not dying, it's dying < 1322252570 462297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I didn't. < 1322252584 879581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appended the new phrase directly to what I previously said. < 1322252586 503098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You're assuming "wat" was followed by a word-separating space. < 1322252601 902846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, hmm < 1322252608 584334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean he just ran the two words together? < 1322252611 843910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I appended the new phrase directly to what I previously said. < 1322253412 561194 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322253826 557269 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: Hug~♪ < 1322253942 858679 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-233-94.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322253943 217225 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-233-94.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322253943 217438 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1322254259 93305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322255092 973435 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322255963 321804 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322256186 522222 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322257206 869392 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odds that me and elliott have seen each-other, based on the assumption we both live in Hexham: quite likely < 1322257207 48587 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With extra information: not likely at all < 1322257326 945641 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I AM ABOUT TO MAKE AN ESOLANG < 1322257347 809328 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-22.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1322257360 672800 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik doesn't like esolangs < 1322257912 549516 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322258014 1371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, did you really cry at the Monopoly thing. < 1322258032 704000 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darths and Droids /and/ El Goonish Shive did upsetting comics the same day < 1322258040 641702 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cried at the combination of the three < 1322258045 945249 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mainly Monopoly < 1322258057 646314 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So tears physically came out of your face. < 1322258064 953753 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322258072 783018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, um, < 1322258081 954387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monopoly tears < 1322258087 953765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You... are a little bit weird. < 1322258095 551033 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a lot weird < 1322258112 558469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean actual weird, not nerdy weird. < 1322258117 211810 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the second weirdest Irregular Webcomic and Homestuck reading esoteric programmer from Hexham < 1322258131 117605 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who played Lego Alpha Team < 1322258131 296659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott didn't read IWC until the rerun. < 1322258140 224943 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE READS IT NOW < 1322258165 259490 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't think he played Lego Alpha Team? < 1322258173 23334 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he did < 1322258189 324514 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned it once and he was like "OH NO!" < 1322258199 569781 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GET OUT OF MY LIFE" < 1322258209 928104 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logs lego alpha team < 1322258211 857864 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found < 1322258220 446560 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log lego alpha team < 1322258224 933892 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs lego alpha team < 1322258239 649520 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't play lego alpha team but I'm also not from hexham and don't read iwc or homestuck < 1322258246 159265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops? < 1322258252 260654 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-25.txt:21:56:05: I also don't think he played Lego Alpha Team? < 1322258252 753740 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23320 < 1322258275 513355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you should probably read Homestuck? < 1322258284 847432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could also read IWC or move to Hexham, though. < 1322258296 475791 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ve promised some guys in another channel i'll read homestuck < 1322258326 67205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, EGS is the one notable primarily for gender swaps, right? < 1322258332 522094 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1322258339 941813 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll probably read it in a week or so because winter break is then < 1322258347 822462 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it for the squirrel girl < 1322258352 491408 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is also half-alien < 1322258421 515395 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, furry xenophile asexual. < 1322258446 179896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from hexham < 1322258472 291393 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/demi/xenophile < 1322258525 855767 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132B5C.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243] < 1322258633 604400 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I am very weird < 1322258663 755694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now invent the game about squirrel girl who is also half-alien < 1322258667 632460 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is no longer a point in dispute. < 1322258670 963906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote octopus < 1322258673 238042 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :231) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 262) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. < 1322258777 473105 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has three pages for "Lie algebra". < 1322258804 578882 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whose website is "www.kom-posti.fi" and why is Chrome suggesting I go on it when I want to go on k related things? < 1322260054 315422 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In D&D game, there is really two major goals at once. One is to kill the green devil and the other is to help the Navy to deliver something to some remote town. < 1322260266 947691 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322260290 520178 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322261304 656087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a game "Sokoban on Drugs"? < 1322261311 816293 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322261318 278459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have, either. < 1322261325 965573 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not also < 1322261327 624043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1322261361 262211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty fun, although the non-Euclidean grid's a bit tricky to get used to. < 1322262270 290790 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322262440 587180 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322262631 896878 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played 4 people shogi (with partners); I won by discovered checkmate due to the losing player's partner placing a piece on the previous turn, blocking the escape route (note: you are allowed to capture your partner's pieces but you are not allowed to move into check even from your partner's pieces) < 1322262772 442009 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1322263206 302758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well can you see the moon if you use ten high-powered telescope lenses? < 1322263217 626317 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shark fins are the main ingredient in shark fin soup" <-- thanks, Discovery < 1322263419 11914 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egypt: the new Russia? Discuss < 1322263626 448639 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "BBS" stand for "Be back soon"? < 1322263629 36456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the love of god I want a bath again. < 1322263646 554075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I always want a bath two hours after having a bath would be a good idea. < 1322263704 630923 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I garden pathed on that one < 1322263705 606855 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322263705 785756 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you are secretly ICELANDIC < 1322263737 945180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, which one? < 1322263748 367518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :htat one < 1322263843 14797 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be back soon < 1322263847 19003 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322264409 944229 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-38.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322264415 596145 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-67.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322264743 715720 :Ngevd!026357bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.87.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322264750 747076 :Ngevd!026357bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.87.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322264774 696975 :Ngevd!026357bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.87.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll learn DOS Batch < 1322264856 844491 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Learn'. < 1322264882 446451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write an Eodermdrome implementation, we need one of those. < 1322264926 775108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322264928 217082 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322265322 433173 :Ngevd!026357bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.87.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was Phantom_Hoover meaning in DOS Batch, or just in general? < 1322265627 270947 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322265643 594474 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322265747 1191 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e5f7.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322265868 629479 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322265951 215327 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322265955 45649 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess oerjan was rather timely then. <-- namedropping us is bad now? >:P < 1322265955 458717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322265958 713467 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322265958 892286 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322266107 48845 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322266186 678614 :Ngevd!026357bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.87.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1322266227 442501 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322266251 115183 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322266257 122068 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322266286 25651 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322266410 385574 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1322266696 69531 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I say sentences of that format a lot <-- maybe you could define an alias. < 1322266736 841879 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, he just left. < 1322267068 363412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ended lamely <-- that Capital city article seems to show up often. < 1322267304 888888 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Phantom_Hoover: Help I wrote two Perl programs and didn't feel disgusted with myself what does this mean? <-- i don't understand the question >:) < 1322267305 206532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322267581 420361 :kallisti!~eris@h91.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott it means you should embark on a long soul-searching quest to discover who you really are. < 1322267581 710416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322267690 583669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322269453 682290 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322269488 693099 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8ADFD.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322270075 278401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322270934 146865 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4271c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322271902 284736 :kallisti!~eris@h91.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322272061 19747 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm retrying United States with elliott's section rule changes the path after Syphilis#Tertiary < 1322272144 584337 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322272167 536444 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syphilis#Tertiary -> Aortic aneurysm -> Bleeding -> Blood donation -> Shelf life -> Eating -> Activities of daily living < 1322272406 415572 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Old age -> Geriatrics -> Greek language -> English language -> Slang -> Euphemism -> Friendly fire -> Fratricide -> Siblicide -> Human < 1322272584 321018 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Anthropology -> Positivism -> Auguste Comte -> Altruism -> Ethical egoism -> Individualist anarchism -> Benjamin Tucker -> Liberty (1881–1908) -> Pierre-Joseph Proudhon < 1322272687 199038 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Loan -> Bond (finance) -> Perpetuity -> Valuation (finance) -> Lawsuit < 1322272720 436683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fart -> punk rock -> the offspring -> alternative songs -> coldplay -> teenage cancer trust -> wirral -> Wirral Metropolitan College -> Wirral Peninsula -> Hundred (county subdivision) < 1322272814 483200 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Civil law (common law) -> Equity (law) -> Common law -> Australia, which i'm sure i saw earlier today and i think it ended up eventually in the Petronas Towers loop < 1322272908 570911 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322272969 469682 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> japan -> infant mortality -> child mortality -> Millennium Development Goals -> AIDS -> Needle-exchange programme -> HIV -> Cancer -> List of causes of death by rate -> World Health Organization -> United Nations Development Group -> United Nations Development Programme -> Human Development Report -> (loops back to United Nations Development Programme) < 1322273034 47354 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: sounds like the end there might be another common one < 1322273047 358932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curiously DMM also enters the japan set < 1322273058 907378 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :david morgan-mar? < 1322273130 366377 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Morgan-Mar -> Canon (company) -> Ōta, Tokyo -> Kamata Station (Tokyo) -> Japan -> < 1322273210 752392 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he works at Canon, so it's not that strange < 1322273323 930282 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway -> Human Development Index -> Human development (humanity) -> Capability approach, this looks familiar. < 1322273332 908216 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1322273366 954434 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322273529 509938 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that one ended in the Tests of general/special relativity loop < 1322274227 829289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which house systems is it possible to make a sundial to project? < 1322274249 810144 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322274272 400607 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of the digital sundial (a mathematical construction which iirc requires the axiom of choice) < 1322274325 945906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read about digital sundials in Wikipedia that uses optical fiber to cause the light to make up digits < 1322274385 259716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mathematics for fractal digital sundial is described but I do not see a mention of the axiom of choice < 1322274413 277041 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it doesn't require it, it seems, and is actually practical? < 1322274486 723293 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :digital sundial eh? so the idea is a sophisticated mapping of sun direction to light up a display of arabic numerals? < 1322274489 971856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool idea < 1322274539 786170 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322275324 680224 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd want a house system which can be determined from the precise position of the sun in the sky, presumably. and i think there will be at least some positions that happen twice in a year as the sun wanders between the tropics in both directions < 1322275381 288824 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps those two days will also have matching houses < 1322275403 40263 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, each day in spring will have a matching day in autumn) < 1322275480 552738 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or very close to matching < 1322275575 595330 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have anything to do with analemma or Sun declination (in equatorial coordinates)? < 1322275588 943021 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what those are < 1322275618 189589 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the final issue of Batman R.I.P., the Joker explains to an organization trying to destroy Batman that there is no use trying because Batman is always so far ahead in figuring out every scheme against him. Joker attributes this to _apophenia_, saying that he has literally been driven insane by this alone." < 1322275656 456393 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equatorial coordinates means measure position of planets and sun and so on on the equatorial plane. The other way is to use the ecliptic. < 1322275734 770546 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the tropics are the largest magnitude latitudes of the sun in that system, i assume < 1322275763 149122 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is correct. < 1322275907 283757 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia: "Since the Earth's mean solar day is almost exactly 24 hours, an analemma can be traced by plotting the position of the Sun as viewed from a fixed position on Earth at the same clock time every day for an entire year." Using the horizon view and timed exposure modes in Astrolog, you can plot the analemma on the computer. < 1322276048 680958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The analemma is plotted using azimuth/altitude coordinates) < 1322276080 526386 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, the analemma would be relevant. although you'd really want an analemma based on when you're in the same _house_ position each day < 1322276095 796192 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if those don't intersect, you can make a sundial. < 1322276417 85084 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1322276436 805579 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*when the sun is in the same house position < 1322276644 986558 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If space in the heavens is the basis for house division, the sky is divided into equal arcs of 30° each. Here, too, a difference will be made as to whether these divisions are made based on the ecliptic, or on the celestial equator." < 1322276650 178932 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322276681 9058 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd _guess_ that if you use the celestial equator, a house will be a fixed part of the sky, so should work with a sundial. < 1322276690 375276 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easily. < 1322277083 402016 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know house systems always place the cusps on the ecliptic (although the different systems might project the equator or prime vertical or whatever). Regiomontanus houses: "The celestial equator is divided into twelve, and these divisions are projected on to the ecliptic along great circles that take in the north and south points on the horizon." < 1322277095 684507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Campanus houses: "The prime vertical (the great circle taking in the zenith and east point on the horizon) is divided into twelve, and these divisions are projected on to the ecliptic along great circles that take in the north and south points on the horizon." < 1322277206 752283 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1322279096 492514 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322279863 133881 :madbrain!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1322279867 189514 :madbrain!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1322279873 820989 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1322279875 730511 :madbrain!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca NICK :madbrrr < 1322279884 305030 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold, is it? < 1322279897 682329 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in montreal, yeah :D < 1322279915 640706 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to figure out if chess is turing complete < 1322279929 798256 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1322279940 323635 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allow walls and an infinite board and an infinitely repeating pattern for the infinite tape < 1322279950 66575 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite chessboard, same distribution of pieces? < 1322279967 736869 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no basically your program is the initial setup :D < 1322279975 536323 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322279985 361232 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the output is? < 1322279989 361582 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: well then the question is what is a wall... < 1322279990 179646 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortest checkmate? < 1322280006 43624 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a part of the board? < 1322280007 471138 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus: space that pieces can't go through < 1322280033 440395 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :exept that horses can still jump over it < 1322280073 913931 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: whether it's the white or the black player that can win 100% of the time perhaps? < 1322280100 22289 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially you take one small walled corner somewhere < 1322280106 216863 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and setup the white king < 1322280114 908613 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 move away from being checkmated :D < 1322280123 259948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm confused < 1322280123 947745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know enough about turing machines to actually add to this < 1322280129 779097 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4271c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322280132 612728 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to stay alive he has to keep the black king in check < 1322280137 321800 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322280144 237853 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need one bit of output < 1322280146 53135 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1322280169 572091 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically each move, the white player must do one move to keep the black king in check < 1322280185 501212 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the black king has to move out of check < 1322280364 891039 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously with setups of rooks you can move the king around < 1322280379 666597 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you, say, store a bit? < 1322280419 432988 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: er, you're not referring to castling, because the king can only do that on its first move < 1322280448 244817 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not while in check, iirc < 1322280476 904313 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I don't think castling could be used to perform computation < 1322280540 254201 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322280572 329875 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if brainfuck can do computation then chess can < 1322280606 833381 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some other generalized games, such as chess, checkers (draughts), and Go are EXPTIME-complete because a game between two perfect players can be very long, so they are unlikely to be in PSPACE. But they will become PSPACE-complete if a polynomial bound on the number of moves is enforced. < 1322280612 240554 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1322280635 582992 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be relevant < 1322280652 158969 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have this setup < 1322280652 953969 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############### < 1322280653 132906 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#R R #r#### < 1322280653 133011 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#RR # K# < 1322280653 133053 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## k ###### < 1322280653 133093 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############ < 1322280660 890449 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for arbitrary large, but finite board, of course < 1322280662 972790 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :white to play < 1322280681 258118 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if white does anything other than check the black king, he's dead < 1322280701 388327 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wall is essentially a hole in the board, isn't it. < 1322280705 273105 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322280708 467121 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so part of the board shape < 1322280735 423755 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be possible to do computation without walls but I'm starting with the simpler case < 1322280764 458762 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, to check the black king, white has to move one of his rooks < 1322280765 242425 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322280857 371011 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-156-33.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322280858 16730 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are four ways for the uppercase player to put the lowercase player in check as far as I can see. < 1322280860 219426 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322280892 658419 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: except the black king can escape from the small diagonal hole :D < 1322280921 270767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In tsume shogi, too, you are required to put opponent in check on every turn < 1322280953 898635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: Yes, I can see that; eventually black will win. However white can still put black in check < 1322280990 605585 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-194-36.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322281014 420084 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to come up with a setup where you force the king through a set of corridors < 1322281041 706341 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which moves the white's pieces around < 1322281062 228767 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have computation using those pieces' position < 1322281183 428594 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks to me like that setup is a checkmate by moving an R down... < 1322281207 588688 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no see once you get to this: < 1322281219 716562 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the one you pasted < 1322281256 724990 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############### < 1322281256 903733 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#R R #r#### < 1322281257 82707 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#R R # K# < 1322281257 82888 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## k###### < 1322281257 82989 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############ < 1322281264 466625 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :white to play < 1322281272 916427 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :next move is obviously < 1322281285 499754 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############### < 1322281285 678856 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#R R#r#### < 1322281285 679044 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#R R # K# < 1322281285 679148 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## k###### < 1322281285 679250 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############ < 1322281291 937618 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: er i'm saying that the first one you pasted will never get to that point because it's a one-move checkmate < 1322281304 591877 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322281311 435300 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh right < 1322281334 476437 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many Rs that he can just block all 3 rows, right < 1322281361 672194 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is a one move checkmate < 1322281374 146973 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322281396 311554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to change it, I suppose? Would it help to add new kind of pieces such as the Chinese cannons? < 1322281412 843230 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1322281431 85967 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find something where you don't have to forbit perpetual check < 1322281436 24327 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forbid < 1322281471 79716 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm guessing that's not necessary. i mean the EXPTIME thing i pasted must essentially imply that it's possible to do arbitrary _finite_ computation, so it would be strange if an infinite board wasn't TC < 1322281479 537640 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this < 1322281480 26459 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############### < 1322281480 205230 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#RR #r#### < 1322281480 384258 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # K# < 1322281480 384432 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## k ###### < 1322281480 563077 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :############ < 1322281503 468292 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :black king can just force a draw by going back and forth < 1322281503 647106 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese cannon = When not capturing, moves the same as a rook, but when it is capturing, there must be exactly one piece (of any color and type) in between the from square and the target (this piece in between is called a "screen" and is unaffected by this move) < 1322281525 549201 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: hm < 1322281575 825314 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to do it with FIDE pieces only :D < 1322281592 179835 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there's no good way it might require some extra pieces yeah < 1322281640 220140 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an idea just occured to me < 1322281641 280501 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That is why all the games were modified by playing them on an n × n board instead; in some cases, such as for Chess, these extensions are somewhat artificial and subjective." < 1322281681 706746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is possible that it requires something else. but the walls seem to me like such a thing already. < 1322281687 856598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, what are rules for pawns going to be? I suppose it can be based on the relative positions of pawns to walls < 1322281688 35398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the time these games are about static pieces.. but game of life is a game about dynamic objects on a board < 1322281728 85474 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: I was thinking white pawns go up, black pawns go down :o < 1322281744 550056 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well it's unusual in that you change a lot of cells simultaneously < 1322281765 858197 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: Yes, but I mean for double step and promotion < 1322281776 613425 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but suppose that a game like chess had pieces which had rules which didn't allow them to sit still unless they were stuck < 1322281805 708931 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: dunno, was thinking of presuming that the game was ongoing so no double step < 1322281819 427106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going off on a tangent though... big tangent < 1322281821 1700 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and promotion, well, they'd have to reach the top of the program for that no? :D < 1322281838 246991 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: mind you there are other kinds of games where one player makes a lot of moves in their turn, like RISK < 1322281881 773454 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of strategic conquest games, in fact < 1322281885 250300 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: You could have the game, each piece has to move exactly once on your turn; if they are stuck, they don't move, and if all your pieces are stuck you are stalemated. < 1322281922 819474 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vinci is another that comes to mind < 1322281934 49088 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*catches my breath trying not to derail the other topic too far* like a set of rules for each piece which it has to follow.. < 1322281970 219282 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you don't tell a piece where to move each turn, it does it on its own.. and you just have some limited control .. like maybe allowed to specify movements of n pieces per turn < 1322282004 537984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you might for instance have pieces which explore the edges of a room < 1322282012 394802 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh room? i mean an enclosed space < 1322282033 279285 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pieces which move across a space back and forth < 1322282042 929662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something that must already have been made. < 1322282054 262651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything has already been made(tm) < 1322282088 899321 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322282091 312429 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its probably just not very easy to do on a board < 1322282099 507085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more of a computer-powered task < 1322282099 685991 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, everything that doesn't require a new invention to work < 1322282111 864049 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of tautological < 1322282136 746822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1322282153 975325 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in my minds eye i see like a 16bit role playing game village < 1322282167 624728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where each townsfolk is performing some patterned walking < 1322282246 723601 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be surprised if there wasn't someone here who had played such a game. but i don't play that kind of games much, and i don't ... oh wait, lemmings is a bit like that < 1322282272 893553 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it < 1322282284 338150 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to find a good contraption using chess pieces < 1322282316 648441 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: you want it to be deterministic, too, to encode a TM < 1322282363 556034 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that means you need a setup where there is only one possible check on each move < 1322282372 354936 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one possible king move in response < 1322282390 136398 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: well or only one possible which doesn't allow the king to escape < 1322282398 591372 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an unwanted direction < 1322282412 331823 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds hard to evaluate < 1322282445 616895 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but it's the kind of evaluation you need for solving chess problems, anyway... < 1322282452 694709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have game involving the board changing. One possibility is the board changes size after every few turns, or they have night time and day time, another idea I had is a game that adds a dimension every few turns. Or have cards that adjust the rules for the board. < 1322282481 903410 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might not have to take _long_ to escape. just in case you need a little extra flexibility beyond a single immediate possibility < 1322282519 774663 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## < 1322282519 996446 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## # < 1322282519 996624 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## # P < 1322282519 996728 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## # P < 1322282519 996832 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # P < 1322282520 481945 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#k# P < 1322282520 660788 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :## P < 1322282521 481386 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :##PP < 1322282532 336841 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is fairly deterministic < 1322282557 845553 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is for pawn? < 1322282561 310259 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but non resettable :( < 1322282562 484200 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322282584 302553 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the resetting might be tricky. in fact you can just about ignore pawns for this reason. < 1322282616 548712 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that leaves rooks, bishops, knights and queens < 1322282629 123706 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and extra kings < 1322282665 96722 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra kings feels like cheating. < 1322282665 364362 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :-? lemmings is a lot like that. nice point < 1322282683 533265 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :queens seem to have too much range < 1322282702 95061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although an idea I have thought of this year is a game that uses a horoscope as the board, updating in real time (so the time you take to make your move has consequences; obviously a time limit would also be required for each turn); you could have cards, with certain configurations you make allows you to play cards to adjust harmonic factors and house settings and whatever < 1322282702 668178 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to make setups where they only can give one possible check < 1322282764 428901 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game I have read about is called Quintuple Arcana, I don't know much about it except for: * The board and pieces * It has complete information and non random * The rules are extremely complicated and modes change depending on things in the game * There are even different levels of rules < 1322282766 236924 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves mostly rooks, bishops and knights < 1322282779 435004 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so with the lemmings idea.. you could have a stream of pawns coming out of one tile every few moves, and your job is then to assign it a role such as queen or rook or knight < 1322282803 479129 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Or bishop, too < 1322282811 27348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some deterministic behaviour for each one < 1322282825 706213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be something in that < 1322282856 260014 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait how does dwarf fortress fit in this :P < 1322282866 63239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent played dwarf fortress < 1322282869 252286 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1322282869 658709 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1322282884 650257 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1322282884 829206 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :# B ### < 1322282884 829388 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :# B R# < 1322282884 829493 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#BB# k ### < 1322282884 829599 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :######### < 1322282885 705579 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf fortress fits into everything < 1322282892 410407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from listening to those who do, it sounds like it has lots of roles < 1322282911 901811 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somewhat self-determining characters < 1322282918 791235 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can imagine uh 2 aristocrats sitting by a board while a servant shifts the pieces around < 1322282966 609191 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the notations would be something like: g5 to bishop < 1322282984 140216 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now reading Dr. McNinja < 1322282995 355544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a game called "Giveaway Chess Puzzle", where you can make one move each turn. Goal is to lose all of your pieces. You must capture if able, otherwise you can make any move (if more than one capture is possible, you can choose which one). On computer player's turn, they automatically make all possible captures simultaneously. < 1322283002 420891 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok bishops might do it < 1322283004 329275 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: you are going to somehow need pieces to be able to check in different contexts to reset things < 1322283032 683844 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the chess -> lemmings conceptual bridge there was quite wonderful < 1322283039 86881 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322283062 686210 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's the computational class of lemmings < 1322283066 175479 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can allow two pieces to end up in the same place. If they are the same kind of piece, it becomes a single piece of that kind. If they are different kind, it becomes a piece that cannot go. A computer player's piece might capture more than one thing, duplicating itself. If computer player's pieces cannot capture, you lose. < 1322283098 755699 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely that lemmings has a crazy computational class like NP complete < 1322283105 276972 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have promotion, en passan, double step, check, checkmate, castling, etc < 1322283128 866057 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like how in the movie The One, he kills his multiverse selves to become more powerful < 1322283130 859422 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrrr: NP complete is nowhere near crazy enough there :P < 1322283149 173340 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSPACE-complete#Discussion < 1322283219 976532 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly last half < 1322283277 712760 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(( < 1322283319 70415 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy math topics made all the more inviting by board games < 1322283322 343050 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean that the first half is more likely to explode your brain, and doesn't really talk about games. < 1322283340 267946 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1322283342 619761 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322283386 720580 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemmings can present an obstacle that requires either N bashers, or M diggers < 1322283393 739722 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any value of N or M < 1322283396 750658 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for recognizing the brain exploding potential of these things < 1322283414 402007 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: your :(( gave me a bit of a clue there :P < 1322283429 136221 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it can present an obstacle that can be crossed with any combinations of bashers/diggers < 1322283438 904558 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sick of these assholes in my other chatroom .. < 1322283446 853207 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like half of them. and the other half i don't < 1322283457 872137 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/N, 2/M, 3/O, 4/P, 5/Q, 6/R.... < 1322283484 593991 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can ignore about 40% of them.. but that remaining 10% causes all the grief < 1322283514 426442 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact an obstacle can have more or less any number of paths through it < 1322283542 705425 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :those paths can require any combination of bashers, diggers and builders < 1322283695 610112 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322283772 619437 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1322283832 812443 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can setup an infinite tape in lemmings < 1322283840 678230 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even infinite lemmings < 1322283879 410298 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like puzzles.. i don't know why.. < 1322283909 205611 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very word puzzle makes me kind of run away from a game < 1322283932 443111 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :best games are the ones where you have to plan < 1322283937 777723 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be that i'm dumb < 1322283940 728521 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: mario 64 < 1322283963 402924 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about mario you see... is that mario isn't just a puzzle dressed up with pretty pictures < 1322283982 728507 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mario 64 you run around the level < 1322283989 304229 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the hell of it < 1322283989 483074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity < 1322283990 906905 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1322283998 420257 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and figure out that it has a bunch of paths, each with deadliness N < 1322284004 310568 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then find out a star < 1322284018 597542 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprise, to get that star, you have to go in spots X, Y Z < 1322284030 985071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.... < 1322284036 766902 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the puzzle is figuring out the path that has the least overall deadliness < 1322284046 218912 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps by that time it did start to become a puzzle < 1322284075 994996 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very difficult for me to put into words < 1322284078 406539 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of games are puzzles, but very, very cleverly hidden puzzles < 1322284095 984703 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theres a fine line between game and non-game i think < 1322284140 678809 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 lemmings < 1322284145 171307 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a good action game is about figuring out the game world and how to pass through its typical obstacle setup < 1322284154 645440 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder which neuroses affect my interest in puzzle games < 1322284176 905196 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part learning timings etc, but also it's a puzzle < 1322284187 357251 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was never content with just getting through lemmings levels < 1322284190 799453 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to go back and save my blockers too < 1322284191 872626 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1322284196 442790 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :iti: it's the presentation... some puzzle games can have a very boring presentation < 1322284214 381270 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex: sokoban < 1322284220 686898 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't care less.. unless it has boring puzzles :P < 1322284220 865688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love nothing more than to philosophize about these things < 1322284225 513370 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sokoban is boring < 1322284229 725774 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude pushing boxes? fuck you < 1322284231 488614 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine as a component of other puzzle games < 1322284236 192325 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a theme level < 1322284241 911892 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't want to play 100 sokoban levels in a row < 1322284254 270476 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best puzzles have mechanical ingenuity and also variety < 1322284257 176065 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzles become more interesting when they involve punching a dude in the face < 1322284259 598634 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres this element of representation which the presentation adds < 1322284278 310157 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean " iti: it's the presentation... some puzzle games can have a very boring presentation" < 1322284296 79239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :representation as in, representing things from the real world, or from other works of fiction < 1322284316 495819 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the presentation can bring that representation < 1322284348 830772 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, that is one of the advantages of 3d games which can more closely represent the world around us < 1322284365 987725 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :other thing that I don't like: games where you can never kill the badguys < 1322284378 994140 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :only stun them for a couple seconds < 1322284391 90597 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps for people who like puzzle games, they are more capable of abstractly relating the business in a puzzle back to the real world < 1322284401 241267 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://67.168.184.168:81/leet1.gif - leet7.gif :> < 1322284402 19376 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas someone like me requires that shallow relation < 1322284404 621849 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricksy lemmingses < 1322284430 352277 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea itidus < 1322284436 328677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1322284437 821789 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care if it is anything like the real world :P < 1322284457 85753 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my three favorite puzzle games has a marble that you move around with the mouse and basically play a game of memory with < 1322284462 873874 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(through numerous obstacles) < 1322284476 873995 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very world-like :) < 1322284483 699262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the problem with sokoban is that you can't learn much from it perhaps? < 1322284494 514204 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, the problem with sokoban is that it's boring < 1322284503 705770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just fundamentally boring basically? :D < 1322284504 17132 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want from a puzzle game is FIGURING OUT NEW THINGS < 1322284515 130756 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only so many ways you can figure out how to push a box in four directions < 1322284520 656091 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything after that is just variations on a theme < 1322284534 325532 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mind variations on a theme either, but it's rather monotonous in a game as simple as sokoban < 1322284546 948713 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite games have lots of variety, lots of levels, and they never bore me :) < 1322284590 773831 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time i like them with complex interactions, like chip's challenge or something < 1322284594 288981 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there are lots of different pieces < 1322284594 507124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah.. theres rarely real world sokoban puzzles... but it would make an interesting take for a "saw" movie < 1322284598 770969 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time < 1322284605 53058 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another of my favorites is crystalex < 1322284612 401266 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a pretty simple game, it just had great level design < 1322284619 694635 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a little ball that bounces up and down < 1322284623 876230 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you move it left and right < 1322284627 160466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game such as Hero Mesh can have a lot of level and lot of pieces. Currently you have to pay, but I have been working on a similar kind of thing but with Free software (and with some other things fixed too; so files cannot be directly compatible) < 1322284628 490859 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. someone trapped in a real world sokoban puzzle..with an ipad in his hand showing him the current state of things < 1322284634 127467 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322284646 679328 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of hero mesh < 1322284656 613467 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.. < 1322284673 921340 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean mesh:hero ? < 1322284679 392180 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322284681 661503 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a PHP version once which is more than half complete but is slow and crashes a lot. < 1322284685 547363 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like my kind of game < 1322284688 417802 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later I will write a better program in C. < 1322284689 470552 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of dated graphics though < 1322284695 527034 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that matters much to me < 1322284698 387303 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the puzzles are good ;) < 1322284707 299723 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4271c.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322284718 627290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes the puzzles are good. < 1322284724 414777 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it looks quite a bit like a ripoff of chip's challenge haha < 1322284728 233952 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect the chips/collect the hearts < 1322284729 54016 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322284729 868536 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1322284733 617355 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think it would be very funny if there was some movie about a sokoban killer who traps his victims in sokoban mazes < 1322284740 23646 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make up your own kind of pieces too. < 1322284744 165393 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.puzzlebeast.com/ has some basic multi element puzzles that are taken to the extreme using genetic algorithms to make difficult levels < 1322284749 689057 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the hardest ones you have to look extremely far ahead < 1322284752 845116 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322284766 56738 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetic algorithms based on what fitness function? how many players solve them? < 1322284766 517798 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322284779 550929 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on how difficult it looks to solve < 1322284786 176808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322284787 307457 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ithink it looks at how long the solution is, as well as how many branches there are < 1322284790 582785 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it xplains it on the site < 1322284797 87424 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they already made a sokoban the movie trailer < 1322284797 747360 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.puzzlebeast.com/about/index.html < 1322284802 834274 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1322284818 184634 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember some dude who tried to make a genetic shmup < 1322284824 153729 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fitness function was how long someone played it for < 1322284824 778747 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322284830 637338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably have even more limited graphics in my version, such as no animation and only one size of icons. As well as removing some other commands and adding a few new ones. < 1322284837 149600 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, mesh:hero reminds me (just looking at it not playing it) of drod and wonderquest < 1322284839 140596 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played those? < 1322284895 285270 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the level, you might not necessarily have to collect all the hearts. There can be different kind of rules you can program in, involving different kind of things. < 1322284973 814933 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope and nope < 1322284979 364291 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there's lots i haven't played < 1322284984 297300 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a particular hatred of boulderdash though < 1322284990 865738 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not boulderdash's fault < 1322284993 166220 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all the clones < 1322284993 756247 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322285015 431090 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.puzzlebeast.com/slidingblock/sliding_irritating.html <- irritating indeed < 1322285019 426794 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't a fun puzzle, just a long one < 1322285019 957457 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322285022 240508 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries the next one < 1322285022 419381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to remove the GotoLevel command, since WinLevel and LoseLevel can imply those. As well as making object pointers not be machine pointers (preventing crashing and randomness), having restrictions on IgnoreKey (preventing breaking replayability), and so on. < 1322285032 37915 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not played drod and wonderquest < 1322285058 910158 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to shrink the resolution of MESH:Hero? It's taking up more than my current screen < 1322285064 757240 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the java implementation leaves a lot to be desired < 1322285065 125192 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Yes. < 1322285080 559092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :View -> Image size A < 1322285088 300242 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322285088 795770 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drod < 1322285091 147937 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :deadly rooms of death < 1322285096 897986 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't recognize it lowercase < 1322285103 692277 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ambivalent towards that one < 1322285113 328896 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played a bunch of kroz levels as a tiny kid haha < 1322285129 289538 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a 'view' button < 1322285131 965374 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on the demo < 1322285165 495271 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing about presentation/display of a game is that various presentation(im overusing this word) methods just work more naturally with how our mind reacts to the world < 1322285205 323437 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like we have the understanding there already to process 3d coloured shapes... to compare 3d coloured shapes < 1322285234 951490 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if we ignore these processing facilities of the brain we can potentially make some comprehensions more burdensome < 1322285246 29797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: The new version might have all those problem; I have the old version. I can make a shareware copy of the old version < 1322285251 401545 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also our facility for symbolic association and so on < 1322285251 580440 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322285311 507217 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like seeing a bar graph comparison of 10 vs 15.. compared to seeing the numbers 10 vs 15 < 1322285327 997848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably each have their own perceptive biases < 1322285407 387943 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is.. in a bar graph it becomes a representation of ratio of 2:3 < 1322285457 38465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the numbers will give us more accuracy in doing arithmetic, but in actually comparing i would wonder if we better compare the bargraph < 1322285461 559840 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i just don't have any trouble with abstract visualization < 1322285469 664487 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, when you're solving a puzzle, usually associations harm you < 1322285498 359877 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(associations lead to assumptions, and assumptions prevent new ideas) < 1322285539 603673 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha this shit's got lasers and fire and balloons and stuff < 1322285541 807261 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic :) < 1322285546 550659 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of associations and assumptions? < 1322285551 54686 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi\: i think i'm just not that smart really. < 1322285551 893070 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any kind < 1322285563 546394 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key to solving puzzles is to always be able to come up with new ideas < 1322285573 108287 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps if you're good at coming up with ideas that are close to correct < 1322285583 628806 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most people i've seen get stuck by running out of ideas < 1322285585 83305 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't get anything out of a puzzle unless the relationship of the puzzle to the real world is obvious and shallow < 1322285598 396586 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too bad :( < 1322285609 723929 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure why though < 1322285616 142498 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame it on some neuroses < 1322285648 315473 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322285662 601933 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1322285668 757542 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been doing puzzles since i was a little kid < 1322285674 757431 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad used to buy me one every birthday and every christmas < 1322285688 553760 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he eventually got pissed because they never lasted past the day i got them < 1322285689 421662 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322285704 833414 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he told me in the end he would just go into puzzlettes and be like 'what's the hardest puzzle you have?' < 1322285734 749778 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even so, variety is required to hold my interest; i couldn't for example get heavy into block disassembly puzzles or something like that < 1322285741 50360 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a few of many different kinds < 1322285747 570058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322285765 729809 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favorites is evil < 1322285766 505458 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the old version is 16-bit program. It does not allow loading or creating puzzle sets with more than three levels, but it does allow programming your own rules (unlike the new shareware version). < 1322285780 183015 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little cage that holds a steel marble < 1322285804 564736 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.calendars.com/img/p/400/200100010306.jpg < 1322285814 293286 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last person i let try to solve it bent the bars and still didn't get it out :( < 1322285816 275939 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to get a new one < 1322285832 62591 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old one was old enough that it had a shiny spot in the middle of the bars from friction with the ball haha < 1322285835 882332 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are you meant to do? < 1322285843 149555 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not obvious? :P < 1322285846 987548 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi\: i find it all too easy to think up impossible situations.. do you find that your understanding of puzzles helps avoid such things? < 1322285851 961244 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal = remove steel ball < 1322285866 496274 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: not sure what you mean < 1322285874 599984 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean you give up too easily? < 1322285892 601248 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i could come up with a situation that i could declare absolutely impossible :P < 1322285899 645459 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i'm not gonna float up into space and walk on the sun anytime soon < 1322285902 603524 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't quite rule it out < 1322285903 292050 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1322285914 647227 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1322285940 958980 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible means... never, in all time < 1322285945 32708 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer highly improbable :) < 1322285946 560087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi\: ok so one of the nastiest puzzles i suppose is... you're on death row.. you don't want to die. < 1322285970 569010 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it? < 1322285982 408716 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, solution: don't commit felonies < 1322285982 929078 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322285992 243657 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, weasel your way around the legal system for decades < 1322285999 47841 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just man up and get it over with < 1322286000 135167 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1322286007 431385 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now on the surface it must seem impossible as if god himself (not to purport some religion) built the prison < 1322286008 657002 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't consider that a puzzle, it's a situation < 1322286012 192685 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzles have solutions :) < 1322286033 310707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. would you say then that some situations don't have solutions? :> < 1322286052 969046 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're on death row there are still solutions < 1322286060 246443 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean they've very likely, but there ARE possibiliites < 1322286075 192622 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :presidential pardon, for example :P < 1322286093 968164 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :new evidence, jail break, bribery, nuclear holocaust... heh < 1322286099 716666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1322286106 386615 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombie breakout < 1322286118 440980 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway.. i think such things is the uh... the true power of the master puzzle solver < 1322286135 361235 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs helplessly < 1322286146 990033 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solving difficult situations < 1322286148 518918 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember distinctly one time when my little brother was having a go at one of my block puzzles < 1322286165 341241 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kind is made up of these c-shaped wooden blocks of various length < 1322286166 32409 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1322286174 578354 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres something on wiki about learned helplessness < 1322286175 116680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can provide the "Hero Mesh PHP" to you too if you want, but notice it is slow and incomplete and it crashes a lot. < 1322286192 422417 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adamdorman.com/_images/3d_wood_block.jpg < 1322286193 994531 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1322286208 230376 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the shape of that one is much different < 1322286221 448079 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a combination of five pieces required to make a basic shape that repeated throughout the puzzle < 1322286226 179889 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two long ones like this [] < 1322286231 488296 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two short ones clasping around the bottom of them < 1322286239 921812 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one going "through" and "up" hooking over the short ones; it all locks itself together < 1322286246 254116 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may not be very well-explained < 1322286264 514907 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i saw him balance like four pieces and fumble and drop them trying to put the fifth in some weird way, over and over < 1322286279 355345 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes he got it and tried to go further, then hit a dead end or something < 1322286287 784627 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he spent 80% of his time trying to balance these blocks to get them together < 1322286295 519144 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not once did he ever try to find a better way to assemble them < 1322286303 102629 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one that didn't require, say, balancing everything ridiculously) < 1322286330 881352 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not only being able to come up with new ideas, it's also knowing to try < 1322286339 935067 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, puzzles are a special case < 1322286350 422208 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pretty much assume the opposite of occam's razor in the case of puzzles/puzzle games < 1322286363 98408 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's easier to branch out quickly and rule out the simple stuff without much effort < 1322286397 27104 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i've actually noticed it affect other areas of my life ;) < 1322286399 249913 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so here you mean, you can usually have faith in a puzzle < 1322286405 417700 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if i drop something on the floor, i don't spend a lot of time searching in the same spot < 1322286411 549898 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322286420 707793 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well, specifically with regards to puzzle games < 1322286425 869572 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i have faith that a solution exists < 1322286435 483225 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i am comfortable trying increasingly ridiculous things < 1322286441 856387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. when my mom loses something in her room i am like that < 1322286447 995928 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1322286449 213169 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322286456 666620 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the reasons i like crystalex so much is because its levels are designed so that you HAVE to do ridiculous things to succeed < 1322286459 436334 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in many cases < 1322286462 287761 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this feels like a nintendo discussion < 1322286463 639029 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pixel perfect timing sometimes < 1322286473 451356 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or long sequences without mistakes < 1322286491 342805 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with that game, i never ran out of ideas - i only had to get good enough to try them < 1322286503 940870 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's not a game, i still don't give up easily < 1322286504 848809 :darkmoth!~michaelth@cpe-98-15-194-89.hvc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322286524 788313 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spent 12 hours the other day learning how to use eclipse, write in java, and use a poorly documented library in order to accomplish a task < 1322286533 360355 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess i could have faith that there was an answer there, too < 1322286537 664537 :darkmoth!~michaelth@cpe-98-15-194-89.hvc.res.rr.com PART #esoteric :"Ex-Chat" < 1322286549 553111 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, this is like a non religious use of the power of faith < 1322286561 5785 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not blind faith < 1322286577 566615 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like "something is magical and i'll just trust that it exists" < 1322286586 265932 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "i know this should be possible, and i'm going to figure out how to do it" < 1322286603 159194 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally i do hit something where i have to put it down or give up, but not often; and i usually come back to it < 1322286617 99502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then this gets interesting... how do we know a solution exists? < 1322286637 784602 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzle games aren't very fun without a solution :) < 1322286651 936927 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some programming knowledge you know what is possible with programming < 1322286667 7100 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things - like ai - aren't developed yet, but will probably be possible in the future < 1322286670 728251 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. then theres the star trek thing... where kirk made a solution by cheating < 1322286671 66396 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with more common tasks < 1322286683 511904 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if YOU don't know how to do it, you can frequently know that it's doable < 1322286691 79215 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, i have one puzzle < 1322286696 135545 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a big practical joke :) < 1322286717 323766 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a long square thing with a hole in the length of it, open on one side < 1322286727 739861 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom there are two holes drilled perpendicular through it < 1322286730 393994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :des cartes apparently used to intentionally send out math problems which had lies in them < 1322286732 647256 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a rubber band is looped through < 1322286747 95227 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well, discerning the lie is also possible :) < 1322286767 839947 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke - you have the other piece, which has a round knob on the end, a long skinny pole with a hook at the end < 1322286772 827864 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the supposed goal is to hook it on the rubber band < 1322286790 166766 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you demonstrate this to someone by putting it in the hole and making some random ass motions like a puzzle box type thing < 1322286797 790720 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you "pull" it out and it snaps back in < 1322286819 904824 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one took me about 5 minutes before i took the piece with the rod out and laid it along the outside to see that it wasn't long enough ;) < 1322286829 909364 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick: you squeeze your fingers together and it shoots out of them < 1322286852 529023 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess even lies can have solutions < 1322286895 395420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1322286906 603652 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you squeeze your fingers together on what? < 1322286939 686448 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guessing this is one of those things that would be easier to watch than read < 1322286944 683761 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the knob < 1322286945 680061 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1322286948 678212 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am really enjoying this topic < 1322286953 978808 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :,------() < 1322286957 166186 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :attacking my aversion to puzzles < 1322286967 359092 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you hold the knob < 1322286974 27520 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fidget around with the hook end inside the enclosure < 1322286983 833141 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you pretend it's hooked by pulling it out and shooting it back < 1322286989 621672 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you "undo" it and give it to someone to try < 1322287000 623180 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of what i described about trying new things < 1322287004 66916 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a lot of puzzles in the Super ASCII MZX Town series of games. < 1322287010 315543 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quickly recognized that there was nothing to actually do with the rod in the hole < 1322287015 535219 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and solved the problem < 1322287025 943770 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone like my brother might sit there trying to hook it for an hour before giving up < 1322287056 320042 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way itidus21, i didn't want to gloss over what you said about learned helplessness; i'm familiar with the concept, do you feel like it applies? < 1322287059 152544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. i was hoping that you were gonna say you were able to teach your brother the right way < 1322287079 715420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know much about it.. but i just think it is part of the topic < 1322287089 285450 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322287091 598606 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really quite relevant infact < 1322287098 5681 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe so < 1322287104 10668 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different kind of thing < 1322287111 942653 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learned helplessness is being beaten down so much that you won't try anymore < 1322287126 565793 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being able to solve a puzzle is just how you've learned to approach problems and maybe something to do with base intelligence < 1322287134 8135 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the effect is the same of not trying right? < 1322287143 64905 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta < 1322287149 546908 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one case, you don't try because you're fucked up and depressed < 1322287154 450223 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the other, you don't realize there's anything else to try < 1322287183 442983 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks. i dont really know the details of any of these things < 1322287188 180203 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did try to teach my little sister about puzzle solving as an experiment < 1322287203 835546 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but she doesn't have the ability to focus very long on something she's not terribly interested in ;) < 1322287211 448399 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :she is quite smart, but it wasn't for her < 1322287221 971413 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if it's a "nature" or a "nurture" thing, but it may be a combination < 1322287238 270401 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know for a fact that many of my habits to approach problem solving were learned from my dad < 1322287245 724093 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his taking me to work with him and helping him etc. < 1322287251 3012 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for me, puzzle and situation are more or less synonyms < 1322287269 453542 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think of the word puzzle as more specifically a kind of game < 1322287277 639817 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't have a solution, it's not a very good puzzle ;) < 1322287282 590752 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but puzzles inherently have solutions < 1322287290 393084 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solving a situation then being applied puzzle-solving < 1322287291 973077 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysteries, on the other hand...? < 1322287310 822728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... then we run into the question of what it means to solve a situation < 1322287337 467092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, if you want something hard to solve, try the last 7 levels of this game http://www.remar.se/daniel/castle.php < 1322287339 589798 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :situations have the potential for serendipity :-? < 1322287341 7831 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been stuck on them for a while < 1322287344 258047 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can do better < 1322287374 347770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm.. < 1322287388 752296 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'd say < 1322287390 560821 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it would seem that rules play a role < 1322287395 445866 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know if a situation is a puzzle or a mystery < 1322287395 963077 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322287404 309973 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way to prove that it's a puzzle is to solve it :P < 1322287454 670590 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases you can cheat < 1322287475 797769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an interesting idea here is are there any puzzles that can't be cheated < 1322287488 787802 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of puzzle games < 1322287506 185815 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no cheat < 1322287507 344611 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1322287535 608905 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean, there can be - but it doesn't really count < 1322287543 452168 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the puzzle designer's job to ensure there are no shortcuts :P < 1322287555 431057 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one level in crystalex like that < 1322287562 304547 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in sokoban, analyzing the sourcecode woudn't save you.. < 1322287564 699557 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one of the latest ones < 1322287581 517686 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, last ones* = hard ones < 1322287586 877068 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there was a simple shortcut to beat it < 1322287589 724969 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author was like lol < 1322287604 520284 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i guess you could consider different classes of puzzles too :) < 1322287611 161846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the program merely encodes the rules... it doesn't show how to use those rules < 1322287629 382420 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it's just something solvable < 1322287638 775570 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse engineering an encrypted protocol is a puzzle < 1322287639 358808 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322287655 34259 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm lookin at you YVD and your "secure double encryption") < 1322287656 6332 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. you could have a chessboard with sokoban tiles... < 1322287668 231689 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could copy a board from a computerized sokoban < 1322287686 88716 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would have to say "how can i cheat?" < 1322287717 69062 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only person you cheat in a puzzle is yourself < 1322287720 169528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps to take the solution and work backwards to the beginning one might try < 1322287731 712152 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :accomplishing a goal isn't the reward; deriving the solution is < 1322287748 235835 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really consider a puzzle fully solved until i can encompass it in my mind < 1322287756 765527 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i have to complete it many times before i can comprehend it < 1322287764 917312 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the same reason i'm not much of a fan of things like the rubik's cube < 1322287768 572387 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too... dry for me < 1322287773 314583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322287774 397191 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too mathematical, not interesting < 1322287783 88172 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically i have an abiding interest in tetris < 1322287786 876152 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i consider the exception to the rule ;) < 1322287789 621710 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the comicbook series rurouni kenshin, kenshin is always thinking outside of the box < 1322287821 195496 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is what makes him the best < 1322287837 860570 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never read the manga < 1322287840 791291 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :watched about half the anime < 1322287847 477650 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only particularly liked the first ova :P < 1322287848 459757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent seen it all either < 1322287858 710452 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst is something like death note < 1322287868 218568 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the author tries to write characters smarter than she(?) is < 1322287870 232147 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1322287875 97704 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it just comes out contrived and silly < 1322287880 236396 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHO THAT WAS MY PLAN ALL ALONG < 1322287885 750866 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example would be.. that his sword is too long.. so he is losing a swordfight < 1322287897 372938 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what he does is he holds the sword by the blade itself < 1322287934 282816 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fixes the length problem.. most surprisingly to his opponent < 1322287961 768443 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thats problem solving < 1322287978 900470 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh.... < 1322287982 531905 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that anyway :) < 1322287990 585737 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm playing this 'castle of elite' now hehe < 1322288009 554662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. i have started to think about the true power of such kinds of thinking < 1322288071 965741 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, this topic suggests that the best way to solve what appears to be an unsolvable situation is faith that there is a solution < 1322288088 862825 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose so < 1322288099 405882 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like a tradeoff between time and reward < 1322288114 979058 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the death row example, no matter how much time you spend, the reward is greater < 1322288125 119904 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the situation is trying to harm us < 1322288125 298855 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes you don't have enough time, or you spend more than is worth it < 1322288126 323394 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1322288146 681233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read stuff about D&D game I have played. Often we try to do, having things even the dungeons master think is unsolvable, and then it can be solved. That is the best game. < 1322288239 597290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you put your socks on your cellular phone to absorb the radiation, what is the best way to clean out the radiation from the socks? [A] Put it in the microwave [B] Freeze it [C] Put it in the washing machine by itself [D] Wash them by hand < 1322288259 86918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many inches in a foot? [A] 12 [B] 49 [C] Meat [D] Pink < 1322288286 355956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many feet in a cup? [A] 3 [B] 12 [C] 56 [D] My foot doesn't fit in a cup. < 1322288297 383496 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1322288309 571652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have this document called "ideas". last edited 3rd october. and one of the subheadings i put in is "Non-Obvious Solutions to Game Puzzles" < 1322288319 791343 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :under this is listed < 1322288338 841141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooden horse gift full of soldiers. < 1322288347 8485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using sword sheath as a weapon. < 1322288353 957411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holding sword by the blade. < 1322288373 419536 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Escaping wagon through wooden floor. (this was on some tv show) < 1322288381 959735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goku holding Raditz still and allowing Piccolo to kill both of them. < 1322288418 614834 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. this idea of treating real life situations kind of like puzzles really has my attention. < 1322288453 576957 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits in with what zzo38 just said remarkably well < 1322288496 947656 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best way of D&D game is deliberately unsolvable game that a working solution is found anyways. < 1322288519 519661 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "unsolvable" is an illusion? < 1322288548 285744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dungeons master who invented it think it to be unsolvable but obviously they made a mistake < 1322288568 813042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some inevitables like death and taxes < 1322289071 615074 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the kind of D&D game I like to play. I also like to play monster character, and some strange spells, etc. As well as difficult situation possibly not seem to be solvable. Probably different than most D&D game played. < 1322289128 6388 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this game departs from obvious satisfyingly quickly < 1322289139 16292 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i hadn't been drinking beer all night beforehand now ;) < 1322289272 727361 :madbrrr!~madbrain@modemcable082.202-179-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322289574 993231 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322289668 214696 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe myndzi < 1322289773 663290 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so i pondered on it a bit.. how does one create a space in which this type of solution exists < 1322289786 546232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need a name for it.. < 1322289809 488972 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a solution that occurs in a deliberately unsolvable game < 1322289840 887797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the name for it. < 1322289841 376839 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's deliberately unsolvable < 1322289843 729186 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somebody solves it < 1322289847 90751 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very good game :) < 1322289872 921738 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :super mario bros had world -1 < 1322289903 482335 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty amazing that a game accidently had the capacity to take you to a level which wasn't supposed to be tere < 1322289927 546778 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :world -1 was just data corruption < 1322289928 107638 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322289937 181992 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happened there was.. instead of hard checking < 1322289965 441671 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just accepted whatever warp zone input it got < 1322290002 261850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is a strange idea.. that making the rules of a game too formal and enforced.. and the players may well be trapped by them < 1322290034 27793 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i like rules < 1322290044 145982 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the challenge is too open my brain explodes < 1322290044 611333 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1322290049 647833 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am faced with constant indecision < 1322290050 442414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you need rules < 1322290053 112545 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a boundary to test any time < 1322290079 31055 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : street fighter 2 also had some strange glitches < 1322290124 640845 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to play my Super ASCII MZX Town series of games. < 1322290135 876515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some puzzles. < 1322290169 380442 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so game playing and problem/puzzle solving and solving the unsolvable and non-obvious solutions all seem to verge into something for me < 1322290195 757904 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is PHP "PuzzleMesh" in case you are interested: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/PuzzleMesh/PuzzleMesh-0-1-2.zip < 1322290263 474007 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :super mario bros really fucked with peoples heads. < 1322290312 298091 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i study it a lot < 1322290450 639395 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blue dudes - do they do anything but bounce back and forth? < 1322290453 39644 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read all the hints < 1322290459 932331 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one seems kind of pointless < 1322290496 818922 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they flip switches they go past < 1322290499 327090 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and die if you place a block over them < 1322290503 42345 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kill you < 1322290508 247639 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that's it < 1322290518 268217 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok < 1322290522 522952 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess he was just a pointless one then < 1322290525 331551 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 away from hard < 1322290531 297690 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can also go through teleporters < 1322290544 616004 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was just like.. why bother putting this guy here? he's not a challenge < 1322290556 336437 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :red herring? < 1322290561 155071 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1322291034 441283 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most rewarding thing for me is when i can logic my way through a puzzle :) < 1322291041 458095 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 2-12 < 1322291313 530602 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi\: another one is goku.. he seems to always find a solution to win a fight < 1322291327 50811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he always warns the guy ahead of time.. i will beat you < 1322291333 295460 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give up now < 1322291336 939348 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's 'cause he's a Chosen One :P < 1322291378 380534 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322291720 537212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end of the chapter I entered this text: (Can Kjugobe get out of prison (eventually)? What does Also do? Is Also a good name or is it confusing everyone? You don't know? Then you must learn. Read this book next time to learn what happens next$\ldots$) < 1322291724 139527 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? < 1322292317 511982 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got stuck on one of the shareware levels in hero:mesh. the one with three worms and all the crates < 1322292439 329517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can your computer run 16-bit Windows programs? If so, I can give you the old shareware version < 1322292447 482803 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be able to it's widnows XP < 1322292449 234112 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :*windows < 1322292463 950961 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have more levels for that game that would be cool < 1322292509 842210 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do have more levels I made up. However the shareware program will not load sets with more than three levels, so I will split it into sets with only three levels each if you want to play the more levels I have. < 1322292535 876750 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if it's not a bother to you < 1322292605 351705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not right now; maybe another day, though. < 1322292994 62650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more levels I have even have new kind of pieces, some of which I added in by myself. < 1322293014 483171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This shareware is Falling Hero but it can be used to create and run normal Hero Heart game as well. < 1322293026 444546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322293303 229326 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1322293305 583867 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, dejavu < 1322293316 912545 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to remember this level < 1322293354 123102 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said that before < 1322293360 936688 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1322293364 423893 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1322293366 644885 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322293441 864182 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this level is a troll level < 1322293453 230372 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to make the thing go up to the top but you don't have to :( < 1322293457 798688 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this solution is much less fun < 1322293565 183303 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1322293566 633147 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this level too < 1322293571 668374 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going crazy! :P < 1322293642 363388 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log alice.*mad.*come here < 1322293669 470553 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1322293673 211330 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-02-17.txt:00:58:29: "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1322293673 880113 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322293816 145177 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Would you like some tea? < 1322293818 367155 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like some tea? < 1322293899 548850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo @tell HackEgo I am confused. < 1322293901 478144 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@tell HackEgo I am confused. < 1322293978 283625 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo will have put a zero width space before that @, so lambdabot ignores it. < 1322293993 704234 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forget which bot s which < 1322294005 676651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats cool i was starting to feel guilty < 1322294036 498359 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am forgetting that i am going among some clevers < 1322294343 874870 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you going myndzi? < 1322294403 463739 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-8 < 1322294406 174651 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very drunk < 1322294408 395529 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322294419 488233 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear to god i've played this before < 1322294422 46164 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember this level < 1322294422 733827 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1322294422 912808 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322294457 461012 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322294462 737798 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I need some quick LUA help < 1322294468 648312 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I iterate over the return values of http://www.wowpedia.org/API_strmatch ? < 1322294496 230267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just followed a long chain from U.N.C.L.E. to Jangal movement of Gilan < 1322294750 84211 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing through such articles as Millennium, Comet, Weather, Hearth, Nature, Aesthetics, Demand (economics), Greenhouse gas, House, Democratic Party (United States), Washington D.C, City, Arabic language, United Nations, Refugee, List of ethnic slurs. < 1322294758 73675 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reversed) < 1322295192 27763 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeah finally < 1322295195 970581 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took way too many tries < 1322295198 847581 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain feels like mud < 1322295436 10891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, oerjan, how did the mathematician make sure he got the optimal amount of water from the ground? < 1322295740 311488 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something something spherical cow < 1322295804 64482 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log euclidean < 1322295832 196141 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-23.txt:22:03:07: Just make the geometry non-Euclidean. < 1322295846 814959 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, assume ground always sinks in water... < 1322295855 679016 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, he used the well ordering theorem, actually. < 1322295864 320273 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha < 1322295929 327171 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :harl har < 1322295935 865316 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i passed seven crosses with only six < 1322295936 311237 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1322296184 139086 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws an unstoppable object at Phantom_Hoover  < 1322296201 188576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1322296208 555862 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled again < 1322296414 767448 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322296429 55785 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i'm link < 1322296455 470891 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322296465 732974 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the idea of unstoppable object basically is a bad rule < 1322296469 222522 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases < 1322296482 362145 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because... it will be literally unstoppable if the rule has it so < 1322296489 221499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. < 1322296499 82288 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is that some such rules are good yes < 1322296505 324849 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all rules should be so concrete < 1322296518 69721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the rule itself is ok < 1322296548 884176 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :belgian ales man < 1322296551 141065 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :belgian ales < 1322296604 580915 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hand-eye coordination is about to give out < 1322296604 931709 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1322296613 238654 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok which levels were you having trouble with? < 1322296614 503613 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on elite < 1322296892 217624 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1322296921 200223 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws an immovable object at KERNEL PANIC. CORE DUMPED. < 1322296928 717627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322296946 279425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi\, who are you talking to? < 1322296955 977306 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :patashu < 1322297182 764629 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1322297186 109271 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322297196 145015 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :9,10,11,12 + the finalest level < 1322297199 384199 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the only ones I haven't solved < 1322297204 202973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're you trying to play? < 1322297219 200987 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, only on 4-2 so far < 1322297224 455658 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Castle of Elite < 1322297689 739487 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember this level too < 1322297697 229948 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must have played this < 1322297702 177093 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember when or anything about it though < 1322297798 229997 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible you could have, it's fairly old < 1322297816 171104 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i did i ran into it the same way, you < 1322297816 715088 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322297883 429658 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i did i must have beaten it < 1322297885 931331 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd remember if i didn't < 1322297886 668113 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322297911 583933 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you beat the whole game really quickly can I assume it's because of supressed memories? < 1322297917 314359 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322297923 446456 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i don't remember any solutions < 1322297933 387680 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just hit like 5 levels that seem familiar < 1322297974 190359 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-2 is annoying < 1322297985 621699 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a great example of the kind of level i don't mind < 1322298006 79185 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one instance or a handful, i mean < 1322298012 513439 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to an entire game of it < 1322298273 926225 :kallisti!~eris@h91.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322298274 342715 :kallisti!~eris@h91.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322298274 521747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322298327 804980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1322298351 648307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hello < 1322298358 50571 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1322298370 249699 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help im in python hell < 1322298387 832210 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made incredibly stupid pattern matching to ease the pain but it still hurts < 1322298418 951684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: give me something more specific and maybe I can help? :P < 1322298429 4133 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing specific < 1322298430 66112 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hell < 1322298431 555214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there no escape? < 1322298441 556657 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, are you sure it's not Python purgatory? < 1322298445 488206 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322298458 245029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: use more metaclasses < 1322298459 951480 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved. < 1322298460 279775 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :punishment for me thinking taking this class would be a good idea < 1322298592 170454 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with what do metaclasses help? everything? < 1322298639 636278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes always < 1322298652 974199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there is only metaclass to do it with" -- Python slogan < 1322298656 935920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*only one < 1322298697 686265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used metaclasses or decorators or anything like that..usually I avoid python, but this time I had no choice < 1322298706 65581 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by used I mean < 1322298708 322950 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :made them myself < 1322298716 275429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :decorators are good < 1322298730 708047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of cumbersome to actually write, when they take parameters and stuff < 1322298735 543216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but useful once you have them < 1322298780 207167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the fact that they're syntactic sugar is simply a weakness of Python syntax. < 1322298783 460477 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice solution though annoying to implement < 1322298822 157865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the decorator syntax would be completely unecessary if Python had good lambda syntax < 1322298938 637378 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e21b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322299007 260033 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdas are evil < 1322299011 594335 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame on you kallisti < 1322299018 874312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're joking.. :P < 1322299029 257957 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hope guido is joking < 1322299038 361277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, I do. < 1322299040 920231 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hope isn't cheap these days < 1322299048 185746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope Python is revealed to be a joke language one day. < 1322299051 157903 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it frustrated me when i tried reading the functional python guide and it told me that lambdas are unreadable and should be avoided < 1322299063 658753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: everything is unreadable. < 1322299077 291146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignment expressions? unreadable < 1322299077 698802 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did that guy write documentation on functional python if he can't aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh < 1322299093 837936 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :c obfuscation contest? unreadable < 1322299094 16765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is basically not functional, though it claims to be. < 1322299109 927753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that functions are first-class really is not enough. < 1322299121 784346 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :python claims to be functional? < 1322299131 235001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322299141 631216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradigms: object-oriented, imparative, functional < 1322299148 8349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*imperative < 1322299152 229910 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha really? < 1322299154 124982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322299156 65947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : with what do metaclasses help? everything? < 1322299158 38542 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who PUT that there < 1322299167 465098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guido I'd guess? dunno < 1322299172 366679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pffffffffffffff < 1322299179 920360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are metaclasses that thing cpressey linked to that I tried to make the Sierpinski numbers in response to? < 1322299201 221780 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :van Rossum: setting dutch computer science back 80 years. < 1322299230 651058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bahaha, "I’ll start by looking at a Python language feature that’s an important foundation for writing functional-style programs: iterators." < 1322299238 195531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://docs.python.org/howto/functional.html < 1322299256 121573 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no, that was those abstract base thingies. < 1322299263 202035 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah that's the one < 1322299282 714826 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'll start by looking at a Python language feature that's an important foundation for writing functional-style programs: object-orientation" -- this guide, in essence < 1322299308 430237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: metaclasses are to classes as classes are to objects < 1322299323 801730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use them to alter behavior during class creation. < 1322299333 191006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually not needed. < 1322299334 464708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But it would be best of all if I had simply used a for loop: < 1322299334 655181 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :total = 0 < 1322299336 303387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a, b in items: total += b" < 1322299339 939494 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me so mad < 1322299341 605258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Django uses them for example for its DB model classes. < 1322299347 841362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for loops can go to hell < 1322299356 186719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: for loops: the essence of functional programming < 1322299404 962074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A theoretical benefit is that it’s easier to construct a mathematical proof that a functional program is correct." < 1322299416 770347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this statement should be in a functional programming tutorial for Python. < 1322299420 394774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*should NOT < 1322299583 763976 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what otherr howtwos there are < 1322299597 752266 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on the fourth level of mesh, falling hero and already hard < 1322299601 67024 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what I'm expected to do < 1322299601 496932 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a howto on python advocacy < 1322299604 776643 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to advocate python < 1322299620 250322 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idioms and anti-idioms, this should also be good < 1322299621 332746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, Python for loops are really foreach < 1322299631 75686 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they can still go to hell < 1322299647 215531 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has a foreach, it calls it forM_ < 1322299651 163307 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM_ < 1322299652 105678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m () < 1322299660 32027 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has lots of things < 1322299696 384224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Haskell has decorators. they're called functions. < 1322299699 695431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore..... (????) < 1322299830 194969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unrelated note, I'm reading an article on how automatic transmissions work. < 1322299833 488988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's blowing my mind. < 1322299837 69720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so complicated. < 1322299972 720847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rests on planetary gears, right? < 1322300026 259805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322300287 761325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322300353 92123 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmk too drunk to continue :P < 1322300366 989139 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :completed: all the lower levels and 1-5 of elite < 1322300382 14168 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha appreciate it < 1322300385 836075 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i remember i'll come back to it tomorrow and see if i can't crack the ones you have left < 1322300386 344313 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322300400 488116 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll leave the game up to remind me! < 1322300826 22278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/automatic-transmission-brain.jpg < 1322300842 770243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those passageways rooute the hydraulic fluid that determines when the car shifts gears. < 1322300952 640844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example if you're accelerate rapidly it will shift at highe RPMS, but if you're accelerating softly it will shift at lower RPMs, and if you go full throttle the car will downshift (to increase the gear ratio so that the car accelerates faster, presumably what you wanted to do) < 1322301043 692182 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some strange reason, we still aren't letting cars just drive themselves < 1322301049 340658 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly peoples < 1322301069 270096 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A09D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322301170 565209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic transmissions < 1322301175 799220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are so much simpler than this. < 1322301176 906427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322301181 991262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/automatic/manual/ < 1322301373 224423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's a little valve on the drive shaft that opens wider via centrifugal force as the drive shaft spins; this is what controls the fluid pressure in the hydraulic system. more pressure = faster speed. < 1322301445 740286 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPDATE < 1322301500 407738 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... < 1322301505 143825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hydraulic logic circuits. < 1322301507 576215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO COOL. < 1322301785 546742 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322301828 225714 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, awesome < 1322301834 252945 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :mesh: falling hero has water pressure XD < 1322303025 931062 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A09D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322303875 116731 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322305068 882060 :bigmuzzy!~user@ip77-46-135-49.adsl.beocity.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322305194 294641 :bigmuzzy!~user@ip77-46-135-49.adsl.beocity.net PART :#esoteric < 1322305684 363575 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.64 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1322305779 313745 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322306943 236152 :hhj!~Lairc@c-24-130-180-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322306966 716823 :hhj!~Lairc@c-24-130-180-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1322306974 316290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1322307013 26563 :hhj!~Lairc@c-24-130-180-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: hi < 1322307018 762093 :hhj!~Lairc@c-24-130-180-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1322307040 695713 :hhj!~Lairc@c-24-130-180-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oy < 1322307051 469966 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322307463 840805 :hhj!~Lairc@c-24-130-180-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322308778 669246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's hhj? < 1322312563 234804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoover Heavy Juggalo. < 1322312567 826903 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use him for PR. < 1322313202 120 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the only person I have ever heard of who convinced himself that his best friend was imaginary < 1322313264 926021 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You like the number i? < 1322313268 4214 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry) < 1322313288 592464 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, i is as real (in the non-mathematical sense) as any other number < 1322313307 961719 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I did once convince myself that my best friend was imaginary < 1322313314 787206 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was scarily easy < 1322313320 355568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure he isn't < 1322313354 551145 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you told him to get real? < 1322313451 506331 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missed opportunity right there < 1322313472 950207 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Haiku use Java? < 1322313539 49637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried adding him to his complex complement? < 1322313940 874927 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1322313943 479909 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could work < 1322313946 784317 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I unaway? < 1322314016 849621 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1322314133 15105 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i wondered if my friends are real in elementary school < 1322314160 670415 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But did you convince yourself with a rational argument? < 1322314212 852880 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i made sure i have as complete as possible a graph between all the people i know with respect to knowing each other < 1322314240 753432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine would be... < 1322314242 29548 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: like what? i certainly convinced myself that there's no way to know < 1322314263 998147 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reasoned that he had come into my life when I was feeling lonely < 1322314288 126779 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is really cool and stuff and isn't the kind of person who would be friends with me < 1322314338 245708 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it was quite likely that he was a fabrication of my mind < 1322314357 152064 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you do any sort of checks? < 1322314387 157106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next day, I asked him if he was real < 1322314390 971012 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said "yes" < 1322314396 723051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I asked his girlfriend < 1322314400 423260 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She said "yes" < 1322314404 443651 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of trivial to at least make sure that it's not the case that that friend is imaginary in all instances, and your other friends never are. < 1322314421 295401 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :his girlfriend, who's a third party you only know through him? < 1322314431 192968 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1322314459 637150 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, other people know him, who I met before him < 1322314468 934095 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the hell would you ask them that, are you crazy enough that that's considered normal for you? :P < 1322314477 807053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1322314490 871954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once almost convinced myself that /I'm/ imaginary < 1322314498 611440 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck on that, Descartes! < 1322314512 605039 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not at all sure i exist either < 1322314514 441443 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322314539 282930 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you know whether oklopol or I exist? < 1322314554 969355 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322314600 478893 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know whether this laptop i'm typing on exists... < 1322314621 320536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will go and see the new Tintin film < 1322314660 811398 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but anyhow i never asked anyone if they exist, since i went with the all or nothing assumption in imaginary friends, instead i actually went through literally everyone i know and tried to made sure they have a connection to my parents < 1322314737 466562 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like 8 so i didn't know it would have to be someone important to me < 1322314762 965663 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 14 or 15 when this happened < 1322314794 112371 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it was just before my 16th birthday < 1322314795 353413 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 15, i don't think i would've given a shit if my friends were imaginary < 1322314816 872653 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will go watch movie now < 1322314823 260438 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1322314827 414450 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would now, probably < 1322314827 594923 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farewell, people of similar interests! < 1322314828 912223 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322314855 119589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :being afraid you might just be insane is not really an interest < 1322314862 557494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not, right? < 1322314894 681304 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we might just be insane, it could be. < 1322314920 229349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :u see. < 1322314950 212328 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet oklopol is imaginary. < 1322315000 391259 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1322315148 666382 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log alice.*mad.*come here < 1322315154 178223 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-16.txt:21:17:53: "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1322315208 242762 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print "test" < 1322315211 626722 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1322315243 419950 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print re('''"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."''') < 1322315244 243396 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1322315250 620878 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322315260 355551 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print rep('''"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."''') < 1322315261 109850 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1322315276 209944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit what is the name of that function < 1322315304 89315 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print "test"*999999999 < 1322315304 861699 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1322315317 368813 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322315336 805792 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print '%r'%'''"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."''' < 1322315337 624936 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'"But I don\'t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can\'t help that," said the Cat: "we\'re all mad here. I\'m mad. You\'re mad." "How do you know I\'m mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn\'t have come here."' < 1322315384 337539 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python test < 1322315387 338762 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :python: can't open file 'test': [Errno 2] No such file or directory < 1322315399 893319 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python -e print "test" < 1322315402 113500 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: -e \ usage: python [option] ... [-c cmd | -m mod | file | -] [arg] ... \ Try `python -h' for more information. < 1322315421 662714 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1322315430 396644 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '\'' < 1322315432 115451 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1322315438 888755 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddammit < 1322315460 887932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322315506 561186 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print repr("Only the fool would take trouble to verify that his sentence was composed of ten a's, three b's, four c's, four d's, forty-six e's, sixteen f's, four g's, thirteen h's, fifteen i's, two k's, nine l's, four m's, twenty-five n's, twenty-four o's, five p's, sixteen r's, forty-one s's, thirty-seven t's, ten u's, eight v's, eight w's, four x's, eleven y's, twenty-seven commas, twenty-three apostrophes, seven hyphens and, last but not least < 1322315507 470245 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :File "", line 1 < 1322315584 175922 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '"But I don'"'"'t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can'"'"'t help that," said the Cat: "we'"'"'re all mad here. I'"'"'m mad. You'"'"'re mad." "How do you know I'"'"'m mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn'"'"'t have come here." >wisdom/mad < 1322315586 409874 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1322315594 476112 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '"But I don'"'"'t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can'"'"'t help that," said the Cat: "we'"'"'re all mad here. I'"'"'m mad. You'"'"'re mad." "How do you know I'"'"'m mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn'"'"'t have come here."' >wisdom/mad < 1322315596 486108 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322315601 201278 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mad < 1322315603 854686 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1322315690 108478 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm... < 1322315718 215120 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1322315720 265286 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1322315729 27633 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? "But < 1322315731 203578 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1322315763 750413 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv wisdom/'"But' wisdom/mad < 1322315765 660515 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `wisdom/"But': No such file or directory < 1322315775 851044 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1322315784 250638 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom < 1322315786 301223 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"but \ ? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ elliott \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ itidus20 \ kallisti \ mad \ monad \ monads \ monoid \ monqy \ nooga \ oerjan \ oklopol \ phantom__hoover \ phantom_hoover \ php \ qdb \ qdbformat \ quine \ sgeo \ shachaf \ u \ vorpal \ welcome \ wiki \ you < 1322315793 718332 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322315801 292793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv wisdom/'"but' wisdom/mad < 1322315803 144919 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322315808 47800 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mad < 1322315810 571265 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1322315838 609870 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"She's mad!" ~ Meg Giry < 1322318349 322285 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322318662 697853 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17Bot < 1322318674 774755 :PiRSquared17Bot!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Changing host < 1322318674 953565 :PiRSquared17Bot!~PiRSquare@unaffiliated/pirsquared17/bot/pirsquared17bot JOIN :#esoteric < 1322318892 860213 :PiRSquared17Bot!~PiRSquare@unaffiliated/pirsquared17/bot/pirsquared17bot NICK :PiRSquared < 1322318902 955247 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@unaffiliated/pirsquared17/bot/pirsquared17bot QUIT :Changing host < 1322318903 134333 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322318925 643508 :PiRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1322319263 167010 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322320009 680616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, Introversion god rid of their motto. < 1322320665 79087 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1322321305 17119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*got < 1322321319 550881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be "The last of the bedroom programmers." < 1322322292 370394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322322382 976877 :kallisti!~eris@h252.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322322383 304513 :kallisti!~eris@h252.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322322383 483647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322323352 980409 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322323404 39551 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PART :#esoteric < 1322323413 868265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322324214 931023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322324240 61073 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322324390 336248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322324405 20576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-MemoServ- You have 8 new memos. < 1322324405 360489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322324423 212888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is elliott being spammed with messages? < 1322324431 966274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1322324446 265817 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a few of them may be mine < 1322324450 603959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :memoserv sends receipts :P < 1322324469 739722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-MemoServ- They must be read one by one. ;P < 1322324472 214139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /ms read new < 1322324476 730462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat until done < 1322324484 170910 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah yeah < 1322324672 48885 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322324735 176272 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322324865 77756 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1322324865 295407 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1322324908 970493 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322325413 266173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322325423 494165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- oerjan has left this server (Quit: Good night). < 1322325433 468488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was at 4:25 UTC < 1322325438 541704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not night-time in Norway < 1322325441 615502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mystery? < 1322325446 45991 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could be far up North? < 1322325474 110374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on, you know oerjan's sleep schedule by now < 1322325484 286828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's at least two people who aren't paying enough attention to the channel < 1322325498 322142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you both know who you are and I'm disappointed in you < 1322325524 584487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1322325526 604506 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1322325913 363121 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: sauna < 1322326645 532185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think you may need a new response < 1322326658 394053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322326665 742742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was half-wondering if HackEgo would do that < 1322327114 736712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god is Sgeo reading Dr McNinja. < 1322328355 704515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1322328893 864204 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1322328912 292148 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't make any CoaPs in the 300's or 500's < 1322328973 900445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's terrible. < 1322329517 108209 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322330166 435751 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I follow 24 webcomics < 1322330189 293776 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 < 1322330211 580894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ALPHABETICAL ORDER!!! < 1322330257 48094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are fewer comics depending on the order you count them in? < 1322330274 49532 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1322330274 257715 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just stopped reading Three Panel Soul < 1322330287 562755 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And announced that I was going to say them all in alphabetical order < 1322330293 548692 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322330297 897849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote myndzi\: ok so one of the nastiest puzzles i suppose is... you're on death row.. you don't want to die. < 1322330300 260235 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :739) myndzi\: ok so one of the nastiest puzzles i suppose is... you're on death row.. you don't want to die. < 1322330350 72395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: We're all waiting. :'( < 1322330381 301848 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ elliott < 1322330386 107786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott now has 1 karma. < 1322330396 861453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't I have a billion karma. < 1322330406 563147 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awkward Fumbles, Brawl in the Family, Cheer, City of Reality, Comments on a Postcard, Darths & Droids, El Goonish Shive, Freefall, Girl Genius, Goost 26, Gunnerkrigg Court, Homestuck, Irregular Webcomic, Lightning Made of Owls, Misfile, New World Comics, Sparkling Generation Valkyrie Yuuki, Square Root of Minus Garfield, Super Effective, Tranquility Base, xkcd, and The Wotch < 1322330415 434188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t comes after x < 1322330418 776449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as everyone knows < 1322330425 968104 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat karma/elliott < 1322330426 149902 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "the" isn't counted < 1322330428 44502 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: karma/elliott: Not a directory < 1322330430 265533 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322330436 640356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls karma < 1322330439 108234 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma < 1322330447 763085 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls karma/karma < 1322330449 736454 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access karma/karma: Not a directory < 1322330460 160847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat karma/karma < 1322330462 261357 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: karma/karma: Not a directory < 1322330470 534405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1322330471 415882 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322330476 352526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -lh karma < 1322330478 444673 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 25 Nov 26 18:01 karma < 1322330479 101411 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`more karma/karma < 1322330481 417647 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma/karma: Not a directory < 1322330486 234786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT A DIRECTORY < 1322330486 926864 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`more karma < 1322330489 165376 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott now has 1 karma. < 1322330491 108461 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dog karma < 1322330493 139964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S TOLD YOU IT'S NOT A DIRECTORY ABOUT FIVE THOUSAND TIMES < 1322330493 319441 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found < 1322330516 367091 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls karma < 1322330518 364498 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma < 1322330525 831742 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322330526 13718 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat karma/karma < 1322330527 886932 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: karma/karma: Not a directory < 1322330529 666880 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stop < 1322330530 727800 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1322330531 227746 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1322330532 725090 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1322330532 906713 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322330541 176329 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a directory ;_; ;_; ;_; < 1322330557 569487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file karma < 1322330559 442817 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma: ASCII text < 1322330570 601392 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat karma < 1322330572 604061 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott now has 1 karma. < 1322330584 233234 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whereis karma < 1322330587 744040 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma: < 1322330590 731334 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which karma < 1322330592 834652 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/karma < 1322330597 35341 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`who karma < 1322330598 705775 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat ​/hackenv/bin/karma < 1322330599 111199 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322330600 568974 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: ​/hackenv/bin/karma: No such file or directory < 1322330605 852497 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1322330611 308468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd < 1322330613 772659 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv < 1322330615 49801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/karma < 1322330617 205740 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/karma < 1322330622 115885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /hackenv/bin/karma < 1322330624 54094 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1 has $(lib/karma "$1") karma." < 1322330639 549570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why it didn't work that time < 1322330643 9883 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls lib/karma < 1322330645 149425 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib/karma < 1322330674 897452 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma Ngevd < 1322330679 643181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd has 0 karma. < 1322330682 586293 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma Taneb < 1322330686 953319 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb has 0 karma. < 1322330690 675199 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1322330694 988100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ Ngevd < 1322330699 600593 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd now has 1 karma. < 1322330699 780356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma- Taneb < 1322330704 272176 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb now has -1 karma. < 1322330710 446893 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pointless \x -> f x x < 1322330710 784945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join f < 1322330719 895327 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pointless \x -> x ^2 < 1322330720 231668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^ 2) < 1322330723 827665 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv < 1322330741 461057 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pointless \a b -> b < 1322330741 790225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const id < 1322330752 907813 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pointless \a b -> b a < 1322330753 259372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip id < 1322330787 460124 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma Taneb|Hovercraft < 1322330791 502531 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Hovercraft has 0 karma. < 1322330792 454186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma Taneb|Kindle < 1322330797 446586 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Kindle has 0 karma. < 1322330808 870031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma ettioll < 1322330813 488407 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ettioll has 0 karma. < 1322330827 10100 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma noqmy < 1322330831 706506 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :noqmy has 0 karma. < 1322330838 246798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody karmas any of me < 1322330844 910687 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for elliott, but he balances out < 1322330856 286845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322330858 978325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ Ngevd < 1322330863 354187 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd now has 2 karma. < 1322330870 962784 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ elliott < 1322330875 406342 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott now has 2 karma. < 1322330886 182353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmae. < 1322330905 675540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be Greek < 1322330938 835736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ noqmy < 1322330943 540469 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :noqmy now has 1 karma. < 1322330950 161951 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :karmai < 1322330956 806709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322330957 275945 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ' heheh, i gets heads like that myself when i first arrived here. but if she'd had to take it away < 1322330960 839529 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 1 karma. < 1322330973 299879 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fungot is awesome < 1322330973 559367 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: brutha stepped back. no‑one bothered her when she goes home.' he < 1322330980 861722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmae. < 1322330982 443462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322330984 369246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322330984 700892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322330984 882599 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ' good idea, like another drink. then she looked at the man's mind?" said rincewind. < 1322330984 882684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322330985 62012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322330985 249258 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " that's right. i'm working, people are saying it might have happened.' vimes sighed. all around them, she thought, that was just the lady's maid to queen molly." < 1322330985 436387 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " hmm?" captain vimes, who shrugged. < 1322330985 759413 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ' er... well, to have sky on the horizon like a lightly-poached egg.' he pinched the bridge of his nose again. < 1322330990 851708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322331002 67340 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ fungot < 1322331002 347420 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the elf looked down at his face with the effort of calculation. < 1322331004 737400 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma- boxbot # nobody likes boxbot < 1322331014 380156 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a boxbot < 1322331016 581074 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 2 karma. < 1322331023 221768 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 2 karma. < 1322331026 35249 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 2 karma. < 1322331026 577695 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boxbot # nobody likes boxbot now has -1 karma. < 1322331029 977259 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 2 karma. < 1322331030 166023 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 2 karma. < 1322331030 351121 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot now has 2 karma. < 1322331032 874128 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1322331034 335877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma fungot < 1322331034 539355 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " ok," said leonard. < 1322331039 181684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands are isolated < 1322331043 999692 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has 3 karma. < 1322331051 402192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands are isolated < 1322331053 137211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322331055 325765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma fungot < 1322331055 962871 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: angua glanced through the grubby window. the fog was hull that had been in the baby's mind, l can tell by the way the sphinx was moving its lips silently, as though it moved of its own. < 1322331059 705827 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has 3 karma. < 1322331063 607176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh :P < 1322331071 425916 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, Gunnerkrigg court < 1322331187 879787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gunnerkrigg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=410&page=1 < 1322331238 54827 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> x^2 - x*2 - x+2) [0..] < 1322331238 880532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `-' < 1322331239 156053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `L.-', defined at map (\x -> (x^2) - (x*2) - (x+2)) [0..] < 1322331254 898648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `-' < 1322331255 228448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `L.-', defined at map (\x -> ((x^2) - (x*2)) - (x+2)) [0..] < 1322331267 927346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `-' < 1322331268 250761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `L.-', defined at BOXBOT IS TERRIBLE NOBODY LIKES BOXBOT He's just a box with arms i love boxbot already < 1322331464 802783 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :740) BOXBOT IS TERRIBLE NOBODY LIKES BOXBOT He's just a box with arms i love boxbot already < 1322331499 912853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im conclude: both robox and boxbot are good < 1322331506 600935 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES < 1322331512 364782 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOXBOT IS TERRIBLE < 1322331520 278180 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies < 1322331523 949095 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boxbot is friend < 1322331528 92615 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendbot < 1322331533 112642 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boxfriend < 1322331554 307707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im friend too < 1322331557 146586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of box < 1322331557 677457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bot < 1322331624 957440 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gunnerkrigg.wikia.com/wiki/Boxbot < 1322331643 595172 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAY ANGLES GUIDE YOU THROUGH THE HARD TIMES < 1322331714 106711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1322331721 260419 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1322331757 577212 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko < 1322331760 669845 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko < 1322331762 376338 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kokok < 1322331764 64331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kjgj < 1322331765 565596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okko < 1322331767 237483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ollon < 1322331786 327288 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322331799 900650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :avant okoing < 1322331868 953544 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could have a beer if i reached really far under my desk < 1322331894 470118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could have a beer if I went to oklopol's desk and stole it from him < 1322331901 743485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, where's your desk? < 1322331940 750068 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :under my roof. < 1322331953 456676 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i rent so it's mine for now < 1322331968 667161 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1322331977 116498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also rent the ceiling < 1322331978 345272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to go to oklopol-house < 1322332007 653767 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really let people in before i clean this place up < 1322332009 581237 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so never < 1322332022 756184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well under special circumstances < 1322332049 357128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry Ngevd oklopol prioritises me over you < 1322332053 561678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a funny joke) < 1322332092 758556 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really know much about Ngevd < 1322332114 998919 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm like elliott but simultaneously less and more weird < 1322332115 185929 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he's also used other nicks. my irc memory is getting kind of worse. < 1322332120 882249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: taneb < 1322332121 106656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Taneb < 1322332128 979942 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that < 1322332132 839205 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1322332133 22139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no then < 1322332136 941520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're quoted on my User page < 1322332171 494409 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right so okay i know a lot about Ngevd then, and i should definitely consider sleeping more < 1322332179 979817 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm becoming even stupider < 1322332197 580328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite impossible :D :D :D D:D D D: < 1322332197 899595 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log all me < 1322332210 644025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all me < 1322332223 228573 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log numbers\ of\ 0 < 1322332223 877219 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-01.txt:13:05:52: ehird, and those spaces are all messed up < 1322332228 174616 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322332231 165476 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log all me < 1322332236 371228 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-11-27.txt:18:54:44: elliott, also why did you call me crazy? < 1322332244 969285 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log are all me < 1322332245 599063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all me < 1322332247 119832 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :our game can only handle 17000 elevators before it starts getting slow :( < 1322332249 893067 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-02-14.txt:23:46:34: Our minorities statistics are all messed up. Er, Christians are in a minority, right? < 1322332256 681342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: whats evelator < 1322332285 313903 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono you have to read it from left to right, otherwise it might change its meaning < 1322332287 581899 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1322332316 858237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: whats < 1322332318 186337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: elevator < 1322332330 473474 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a thing that goes back and forth < 1322332424 468689 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the smell of burning body hair < 1322333171 426977 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you like beer? < 1322333178 132231 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did i not know this < 1322333186 234364 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like beer, but not all too much < 1322333195 660615 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I will have one shortly < 1322333243 429000 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be Heineken < 1322333247 471499 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322333404 506924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How can you like beer, you're like 5 years old. < 1322333415 105061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm older than you shut up < 1322333429 602354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes the fact that I am 4 is not relevant Ngevd. < 1322333449 481195 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's legal to drink at 5 in Britain < 1322333453 888748 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some circumstances < 1322333458 959470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drink alcohol, that is < 1322333469 724917 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1322333489 905786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but you're still 5. < 1322333578 635308 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dutch beer and Italian food < 1322333586 962297 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell I'm British < 1322333643 614253 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that note, < 1322333645 658899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: dinner < 1322333659 229601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngevd is weird < 1322334628 464073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/mm68o/ghc_74_branched_whats_in_for_christmas/c3291tr < 1322334628 844525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322335825 571877 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322336086 391964 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322336154 959208 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1322336195 906271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322336207 243664 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322336507 161338 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322336507 601262 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322336507 789742 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322336604 59784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322336614 283623 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PART :#esoteric < 1322336619 157721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322337254 641982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL vendor string: VMware, Inc. < 1322337254 871390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe < 1322337254 871581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.11.1 < 1322337256 702479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, vmware? < 1322337802 303203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322338892 478977 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322338955 293931 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322339037 869690 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322339038 48765 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1322339038 48896 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1322339447 735632 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322339504 388652 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322339504 568551 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322339504 568691 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322339561 175464 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322339580 125848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had XChat open for about an hour before realising that I hadn't actually joined any channels < 1322339586 982766 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On which note, hello! < 1322339699 37438 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may design a visual language designed for implementation of esoteric programming languages < 1322339855 621463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mental heuristic: Ngevd says "I may X" -> assume Ngevd will never X. < 1322339870 512742 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1322340330 10935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322340559 749717 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322340581 644615 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322340581 953223 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322340613 520408 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322340657 619774 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322340696 372375 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logs ABCDEF...G < 1322340698 573364 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found < 1322340702 724985 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log ABCDEF...G < 1322340707 676294 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-14.txt:19:09:45: It's actually abbreviated ABCDEF...G < 1322340855 38247 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322340940 359118 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322341040 227529 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322341115 41290 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322341142 547313 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322341166 657350 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322341191 540458 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322341222 547420 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322341222 726670 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322342227 326607 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322342322 993623 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322342837 557871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ping < 1322342837 849239 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: there was a brief scream from one of them life choices." < 1322342857 200018 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, no pong < 1322342861 940376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be disconnected < 1322342993 454102 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1322343229 934441 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1322343232 383307 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad < 1322343237 541631 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1322343239 536515 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322343310 539378 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-108.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322343336 132221 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-67.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322343887 318311 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, shachaf < 1322343893 131412 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see you much < 1322343893 310452 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd < 1322343924 775736 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen you, as far as I know. < 1322343935 58985 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sometimes called Taneb? < 1322343946 943197 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've seen your nick in IRC. < 1322343969 423267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant we rarely converse < 1322343980 244414 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1322343984 309836 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you, Jonathan Hoag? < 1322343996 324038 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm elliott's evil twin < 1322344038 740897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, I'm the good one < 1322344040 755129 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is easily visible "Taneb" because it is the username after ! < 1322344047 253714 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peoplee always misinterpret that sentence... < 1322344063 500630 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? Are you good one? Or evil? Or both good, possibly? Or both evil? Or both good and evil? Or mixed up? < 1322344091 524651 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely good < 1322344097 359439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1322344101 692792 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's much more competent than me, so he must be the evil one < 1322344118 815355 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must be evil due to competent?? < 1322344123 600245 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322344204 365902 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously < 1322344730 720525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the time of day of birth of fictional characters? Do you ever make it up? < 1322344812 303472 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to stick my head out of a window < 1322344815 122574 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish me luck! < 1322344821 780417 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1322344900 544508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322344901 512090 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is blustery < 1322344902 765297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover... < 1322344924 693171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFCON crashed. < 1322344926 872285 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MY NAME IS ELLIOTT HIRD YOU KILLED MY FATHER PREPARE TO DIE" < 1322344936 422113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Welp. < 1322344938 880205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7ff3b2cb7000-7ff3b2cd7000 rw-s 268109000 00:05 3367 /dev/dri/card0zsh: abort ./defcon.bin.x86_64 < 1322344939 572221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I... leave it running? < 1322344950 831953 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prepare to go back in time to kill your grandfather!! < 1322344952 743175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt much'll happen. < 1322344952 922338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:27:17: Ngevd: there was a brief scream from one of them life choices." < 1322344953 101554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322344953 280446 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " in there. burn people in there?' said granny. the witch magic and the wizard magic are, i don't have to come. < 1322344964 828851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Plot twist: I was actually moving my navy to attack. < 1322345013 109559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had everything build up between Africa and South America. < 1322345024 370751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd never have made it past without extremely heavy losses. < 1322345029 646257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322345043 307631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it blustery where you are, at most 2 miles away from me? < 1322345052 308692 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFCON? < 1322345058 928618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I... guess so? How do you know it's at most 2 miles. < 1322345070 836473 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You live in Hexham < 1322345073 353840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All this game does is make me really want to play Worms. < 1322345073 532660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham isn't that big < 1322345075 711484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Hexham is that small? < 1322345080 780281 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1322345083 582562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1322345095 631531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Hexham proper is < 1322345103 874444 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham improper is HUGE < 1322345144 536490 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And extends for a good 30+ miles westwards from here < 1322345192 699133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dammit, I just realised I'd have to pirate W:A again to play. < 1322345267 237893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The story of D&D game I play in has seventeen footnotes so far, and twelve chapters, and five sessions, and thirty-one pages in maximum print mode. < 1322345283 849609 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait till you can make a novel out of it < 1322345366 974350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is meant to be a novel. But not for sale, and in novel mode there are less pages (because character sheets, session titles, and footnotes are omitted) < 1322345461 691811 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am probably only going to keep the TeX source file and the DVI file for anyone to download. < 1322345530 598831 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually played D&D < 1322345539 639061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got the Player's book thing < 1322345551 105163 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even made a character < 1322345560 286878 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But never found anyone to play with... < 1322345571 998833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What version? < 1322345581 297052 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4th ed, I'm afraid < 1322345586 55361 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play 3.5 edition. < 1322345603 992071 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read this story if you are interested in it! Now I finished typing all the sessions so far. < 1322345618 363787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to play a Dwarf Cleric < 1322345646 226525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, play a dwarf cleric if you want to. < 1322345695 506512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that have an implied "but you really shouldn't"? < 1322345714 148762 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't imply that. < 1322345730 269290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good < 1322345803 762597 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The things about these game is you can play many different way, and makes the game interesting because of that. The different character, good at different things, have different preferences and spells and items and personality and so on, etc < 1322345835 410266 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the latest copy of my recording? < 1322345843 756292 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read any < 1322345912 649540 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX source file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex Printout file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.dvi Macro file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/dungeonsrecording.tex < 1322346012 65520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended tool for anything? < 1322346022 866184 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read: I don't know how to use TeX < 1322346029 592674 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what DVI is < 1322346039 215357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Evince can open DVI files. < 1322346060 547155 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322346103 697478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, DVI is what around three people use for TeX output. < 1322346127 736201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source file is also readable in any plain text viewer in case you want to < 1322346723 883142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322347205 353334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Formally, a frame is defined to be a lattice L in which finite meets distribute over arbitrary joins," < 1322347216 806435 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this may be the most confusing phrase I have ever read. < 1322347276 979301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are five words there which I know but which make no sense by their normal definitions. < 1322347548 881606 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322347991 792755 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322348267 852172 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322348503 122782 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322349436 867950 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1322350178 442987 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322350465 187396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322350519 470804 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-108.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322350527 940431 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-230.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322350647 997108 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know how you ruined one of my NetHack games? well, I started another one to make it winnable again, and actually ascended that one :) < 1322350660 990994 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can go back to trying to ascend the original one, but am not sure there's time in November while I'm not busy < 1322350662 819041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I will clearly have to distract you more in the future! < 1322350680 302257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (Correction: I ruined _two_ of your NetHack games.) < 1322350691 190059 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the other one? < 1322350697 766365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: The HP one and the silly arena one. < 1322350701 84167 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the HP one < 1322350714 433110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts writing his third Perl program. < 1322350726 478180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very worrying trend. < 1322350745 564018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: What's the favoured mathematical operator to append to CPAN to get a usable tool these days? < 1322350756 748379 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cpanm -S < 1322350764 736422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Minus, then? < 1322350768 245056 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322350776 704308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1322350793 357823 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to use -S rather than running it as root, or the perms end up wrong < 1322350798 614234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wow, it's even packaed in my OS, too < 1322350806 638846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*packaged < 1322350811 785816 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitten? < 1322350817 571152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no, the OS I use :) < 1322350821 888472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the one I'd rather use < 1322350827 239133 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's @ :) < 1322350834 665358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can have two OSes I'd rather use! < 1322350855 868966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, having said that, the module I want is /also/ in my package manager < 1322350870 629883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Perl have issues with mixing distro/cpan packages like Haskell does with distro/cabal-install packages? < 1322350909 620300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: also, congrats on ascending < 1322350910 944679 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not noticeably; the major issue is that if you install a package both ways, you might not get the right copy < 1322350994 813215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I hope you're right :) < 1322350998 679609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: does CPAN even have versioned dependencies? < 1322351014 223744 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322351019 377619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322351032 977940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to do things via cpanminus for consistency < 1322351052 487701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, er, don't have a cpanm command-line tool < 1322351068 185880 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weird < 1322351072 977732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's in usr/bin/vendor_perl/cpanm < 1322351079 117701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it in /usr/bin/vendor_perl? < 1322351148 37528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs GD < 1322351164 788361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: thanks, that was amazingly painless < 1322351240 499160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, you know probably slightly more about perl packages than I do; is there anything you'd recommend to extract a file from a zip file as a bytestring? (without having to unpack the whole thing to the FS) < 1322351246 794931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: if I can get a filehandle for it, even better < 1322351261 758421 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I've forgotten its name < 1322351277 756119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has found Archive::Extract, but it seems to just do extract-to-FS < 1322351353 723862 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, zip file might be something I haven't done < 1322351360 606923 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archive::Zip seems like the ridiculously fully-featured model < 1322351362 275101 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*module < 1322351368 90223 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's an Archive::Zip::Simple? < 1322351383 51274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Acme::Simple; < 1322351399 445274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# language is now Lazy K; simplicity guaranteed < 1322351421 143421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, Archive::Zip is done by somebody with an avatar I recognise! < 1322351423 76398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST BE GOOD < 1322351436 509530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme-BadExample-1.01 Perl document, yes. Perl code, no damn way! [Download] [Browse] 30 Mar 2009 < 1322351436 688415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme-Everything-1.01 Effectively loads every class in CPAN [Download] [Browse] 10 Dec 2007 < 1322351436 688591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme-Mom-Yours-0.02 Your mom is so fat she takes 2 months to compile [Download] [Browse] 19 Apr 2009 < 1322351452 587768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet this guy wishes CPAN let you configure the sorting of your package list. < 1322351457 21987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1322351459 531526 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322351464 349263 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bad sign when I can't figure out what method's used to get at a particular file in the zip archive < 1322351473 720910 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-230.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322351483 209502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Archive-Zip-1.30/lib/Archive/Zip.pm#Zip_Archive_Accessors < 1322351485 358642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: found with TOC < 1322351507 941715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Return the disk that I start on. Not used for writing zips, but might be interesting if you read a zip in. This should be 0, as Archive::Zip does not handle multi-volume archives." < 1322351512 707436 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, that returns archive member objects, then you can call a method on /those/ to get a filehandle < 1322351513 939720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is this an implementation of a common interface? < 1322351524 892942 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably an implementation of a spec < 1322351561 41551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott discovers the pain of object-oriented pel. < 1322351565 929318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :object-oriented pel < 1322351575 126628 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's actually not that painful at all < 1322351582 846574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1322351593 25860 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like other OO languages, except that it's made out of language primitives which means that the corner case behaviour is typically more obviosu < 1322351594 550088 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*obvious < 1322351603 102122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322351663 670594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: it just feels... weird. < 1322351665 330675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl < 1322351666 468837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly. < 1322351684 163031 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IO::Uncompress::Unzip may be the right module to use < 1322351691 780224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just installed Archive::Zip :) < 1322351750 261214 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use IO::Uncompress::Unzip qw/unzip/; my $unzipped_file_contents; unzip "zipfile.zip" => $$unzipped_file_contents; < 1322351752 90747 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's a nice API < 1322351769 930396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: the zip is large < 1322351772 854498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want to decompress one file of it < 1322351776 558575 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1322351799 528843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $zip = Archive::Zip->new(); < 1322351799 747648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$zip->read($ENV{'HOME'} . '/.minecraft/bin/minecraft.jar') == AZ_OK or die; < 1322351799 747853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $terrain = $zip->memberNamed('terrain.png') or die; < 1322351799 747967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $terrain_fh = $terrain->fh(); < 1322351799 748075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy! < 1322351834 115712 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO::Uncompress::Unzip can do that too by adding , Name => "file-in-zip.ext" or whatever as an argument < 1322351840 380534 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hmm, pretty similar in both cases < 1322351847 831580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: to a filehandle? < 1322351853 793841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I suppose it's no big deal to load this as a string < 1322351859 228531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like a filehandle is FASTER :P < 1322351861 588823 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but you have to pass a filehandle reference as argument < 1322351865 966099 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't remember how to get one of those things < 1322351882 494001 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with "open my $fh" which I think is special-cased < 1322351910 933066 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you find a module that works, go for it < 1322351985 900333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: Copyright (c) 2005-2007 Paul Marquess. All rights reserved. < 1322351989 815237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for IO::Uncompress::Unzip < 1322351993 908551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is worrying < 1322351997 764941 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dates? < 1322352001 683775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since it was uploaded in 2008 :) < 1322352004 876963 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322352005 661336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: the latter date, in particular < 1322352031 548336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Archive::Zip had no releases from mid-2005 to mid-2009 < 1322352045 461577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: you can access filehandle refs explicitly with a *foo{THING} but... I'm pretty sure you don't ever need to? < 1322352082 43661 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's for accessing them after they're created, and there'd be no reason to do that if they already existed < 1322352099 335016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, GD::Image->loadFromPng is failing, but die "$!" doesn't print anything < 1322352103 146944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1322352114 53811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :try $@ < 1322352120 265046 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anything in the other error variables? < 1322352123 636252 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to suggest $@ < 1322352131 617561 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$! is more for failures in external binaries, IIRC < 1322352133 419647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: thanks, I was just trying to bait someone into giving me another variable to try :) < 1322352148 53847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although $@ is empty too :( < 1322352203 905939 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way is it failing? returning undef? < 1322352216 39358 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the module specify how to get at errors? < 1322352226 213439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: it returns undef, and not from what I can see < 1322352227 535901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example is < 1322352227 968172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $myImage = new GD::Image(100,100) || die; < 1322352231 788035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't do much in the way of error reporting < 1322352233 522267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the constructors) < 1322352234 740606 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322352239 609595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : open (PNG,"barnswallow.png") || die; < 1322352239 788427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $myImage = newFromPng GD::Image(\*PNG) || die; < 1322352239 788585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : close PNG; < 1322352242 619536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing printing any error < 1322352287 272025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :globref, neat. < 1322352434 879939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that's the built-in open, open would save an error msg in $@ < 1322352449 24110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the myImage part < 1322352467 346246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess: something went wrong! < 1322352469 543795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION helpful < 1322352473 647625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, ah, if you have a filehandle in a $foo how do you pass it as a filehandle? < 1322352477 57856 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch at the globally-scoped filehandle names < 1322352482 697012 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $fo < 1322352484 229460 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$foo < 1322352490 577895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: is that $foo, or *$foo? < 1322352511 523784 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :open my $foo, '<', 'barnswallow.png'; $myimage = newFromPng GD::Image($foo); < 1322352528 111755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, aha, I think I've figured out the problem < 1322352531 257154 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :open does a bit of magic to put a filehandle object in $foo < 1322352533 235934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :->fh() seems to point to /compressed/ data < 1322352552 337618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I found this by trying to read a line from a known-text file in the archive) < 1322352580 490488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: ah! < 1322352580 793889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractToFileHandle( $fh ) < 1322352580 972767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extract (and uncompress, if necessary) the member's contents to the given file handle. Return AZ_OK on success. < 1322352582 465553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I want < 1322352594 313397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out how to create a file handle to pass to that :/ < 1322352604 625703 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, it'll write to a file that the filehandle represents < 1322352607 517375 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322352619 185520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322352631 549910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: temp file? :P < 1322352639 387101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'd rather extract it to a string than do that < 1322352738 655221 :amtal!~amtal@142.179.35.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322352764 398060 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322352764 661436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're using Archive:Zip or something? < 1322352764 839865 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322352764 840040 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322352774 138153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322352782 750616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is / integer division given two integer operands? < 1322352849 399462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.... don't think so. < 1322352851 739561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print 5/2 < 1322352854 31169 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 < 1322352876 598801 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322352883 205750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :use integer; < 1322352888 196284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :forced integer division inside its scope < 1322352891 783290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how do I do integer division, then? < 1322352891 962145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forces < 1322352892 965952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without that? < 1322352897 252609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you could just floor? < 1322352904 381739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'll just assume nobody will have a broken file :) < 1322352921 434400 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322352931 718880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor by the way is int < 1322352942 309271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int(5/2) < 1322352942 771544 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1322352991 153794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl {use integer; print 5/2, ' ' } print 5/2; < 1322352991 731806 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 2.5 < 1322353089 908971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but integer division would be int(5) / int(1.5). Otherwise, you're just rounding the real division. – Rog Feb 12 '09 at 2:56 < 1322353101 694700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person on stackoverflow seems to be confused about what integer division is. < 1322353113 392268 :Ikarus!~ikarus@46-129-66-189.dynamic.upc.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322353538 221858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS FILE IS THE STUPIDEST THING EVER < 1322353636 644522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :( < 1322353656 361768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: let's say you wanted a single png file with a bunch of fixed-size textures in them < 1322353678 383542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1322353682 572642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and you already have permanent, allocated 8-bit unsigned integers to identify the things being textured < 1322353684 106988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you < 1322353696 378221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- make the file 16x16, use the already-allocated IDs to index them < 1322353696 908433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1322353706 980462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- make the file 16x16 but put the textures in a completely different order < 1322353707 720175 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322353711 97352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no coherent mapping from the IDs < 1322353716 52049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :second one < 1322353717 211687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun. < 1322353719 411544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that anyone who reads it has to maintain a list mapping the layout to real IDs < 1322353723 754811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: CONGRATULATIONS! YOU'RE NOTCH! < 1322353737 46611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaay < 1322353787 873958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: adding one to the many reasons you shouldn't play minecraft < 1322353844 770262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm not playing Minecraft! This computer can't even /run/ Minecraft. < 1322353856 465023 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one can >.> < 1322353859 479885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..then wtf are you doing. < 1322353861 925147 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is on his phone < 1322353869 659079 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndzi < 1322353893 869789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also I didn't mean play as in playing, I meant play as in play. < 1322353905 908749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :English does weird things with present tense so that it actually doesn't mean the immediate present < 1322353909 948857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use present progressive for that. < 1322353922 105063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: mcmap < 1322353928 93912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but WHY? < 1322353932 514486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do not play minecraft < 1322353949 783265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play Minecraft. Just not on this computer. < 1322353957 84315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322353961 849545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. well that's... irrelevant. :P < 1322353968 219130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is currently my only computer. < 1322353977 181061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322353978 973245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like < 1322353993 157590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you run... but your only pair of shoes is made of concrete currently. < 1322353999 388310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322354005 594994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1322354020 795893 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than abstract shoes < 1322354042 536407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god leftover turkey is so dry < 1322354043 496216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/7/78/TerrainGuide.png < 1322354046 18078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am actually considering < 1322354050 348352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M CHOKING ON LITTLE BITS OF DRY BIRD MEAT. < 1322354050 766934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scraping this file < 1322354055 747457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by keeping track of the font < 1322354064 617450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an alternative to manually maintaining a list < 1322354124 405934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that perfectly usable portal texture not being used. < 1322354135 312225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: implement minecraft server with portal gun. < 1322354142 409302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft has portals, you idiot. < 1322354149 522685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not portal portals < 1322354162 930653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the portal texture says "portal < 1322354166 86178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not used" < 1322354183 604510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because the portal texture is done procedurally. < 1322354209 787799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322354243 218242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway portals to netherasslands does not count as portal gun omg yesssss < 1322354254 133189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are mods for that. < 1322354270 310080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't figured this out by now: I really like portal guns < 1322354475 185425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what I'm doing now is reading the decompiled source to find the mapping < 1322354515 417410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....bahag\haha < 1322354537 654098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's not that bad, there's a tool to give all the classes and fields good names :P < 1322354557 127026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's Java, so not much is actually lost apart from names in the decompilation < 1322354564 309259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DecompiledClass1, DecompiledClass2, DecompiledClass3, ... < 1322354578 372840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nope < 1322354584 74757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :excerpt: < 1322354585 119316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EntityTNTPrimed.java NBTTagShort.java WorldProviderSurface.java < 1322354585 298311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EntityVillager.java NBTTagString.java WorldRenderer.java < 1322354585 298508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EntityWaterMob.java NetClientHandler.java WorldSavedData.java < 1322354585 667204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EntityWeatherEffect.java NetHandler.java WorldSettings.java < 1322354592 219925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. < 1322354600 97903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322354600 952152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322354603 250961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filenames < 1322354605 940143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the class names. < 1322354620 886438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no the filenames are obfuscated. < 1322354624 584801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: people just map out each one on release < 1322354627 232963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322354630 646042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like five thousand mods < 1322354632 941434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322354638 197620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322354641 650282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do this so it's not incredibly painful to mod it :P < 1322354655 905317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good modders < 1322354661 776343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the bestest thing is, they have a tool to RE-obfuscate everything < 1322354666 728079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: because you can't distribute the full minecraft.jar < 1322354675 825944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but distributing individual modded .class fails is turned a blind eye to < 1322354686 717039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be re-obfuscated so it works with the rest of the stock classes in the .jar < 1322354686 895758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEH < 1322354721 470885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny legal things funny modders < 1322354784 265771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when you try to use 10 mods at the same time? < 1322354787 146089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaos? < 1322354837 897678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if they don't touch the same classes: it probably just works < 1322354842 55196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if they use ModLoader: it just works < 1322354850 762517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they change the same stuff < 1322354851 564116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322354870 680711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ModLoader a mod or a Notch thing. < 1322354872 646083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it almost certainly just works. i'm sure _some_ things conflict even with ModLoader) < 1322354874 916034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a mod obviously < 1322354905 296683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one mod to rule them all. < 1322354942 212135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUSSIE WHY YOU NO UPDATE? < 1322354955 722317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick kallisti being terrible < 1322354986 395903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Moment of force (often just moment) is the tendency of a force to twist or rotate an object; see the article torque for details. This is an important, basic concept in engineering and physics. A moment is valued mathematically as the product of the force and the moment arm. The moment arm is the perpendicular distance from the point of rotation, to the line of action of the force. The moment may be thought of as a < 1322354997 47637 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1322355000 213777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1322355028 384151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : private void renderEntityOnFire(Entity entity, double d, double d1, double d2, < 1322355028 562821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : float f) < 1322355075 779352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1322355085 132898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why paste < 1322355087 482374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1322355097 817662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why'd you paste that? < 1322355103 20711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO IS TRULY AT FAULT? < 1322355107 453854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pasted before me < 1322355108 654644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO DESERVES TO POINT THE FINGER? < 1322355116 524216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS THE MEANING OF MEANING? WHAT IS WHY? < 1322355129 286528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick kallisti being terrible < 1322355129 516178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY IS WHAT? < 1322355170 416661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A boot is a type of footwear but they are not shoes. Most boots mainly cover the foot and the ankle and extend up the leg, sometimes as far as the knee or even the hip. Most boots have a heel that is clearly distinguishable from the rest of the sole, even if the two are made of one piece. < 1322355186 78491 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/boot kallisti < 1322355197 598648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the... hip? really? < 1322355199 922927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hip boot. < 1322355200 101906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why are you pasting this? < 1322355201 703009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha. < 1322355203 325150 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :being terrible < 1322355219 939494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : to the... hip? really? <-- seems insane < 1322355238 52203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : private BufferedImage unwrapImageByColumns(BufferedImage bufferedimage) < 1322355240 250352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "Hip boots, or waders as they are colloquially called, are a type of boot initially designed to be worn by river fishermen." < 1322355241 863275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ^ < 1322355242 286717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK THIS IS STARTING TO GET BETTER < 1322355258 429306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i1 = ai[l] >> 24 & 0xff; < 1322355258 608441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int j1 = ai[l] >> 16 & 0xff; < 1322355258 608599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int k1 = ai[l] >> 8 & 0xff; < 1322355258 608698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int l1 = ai[l] & 0xff; < 1322355258 608795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322355262 719331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, java? < 1322355267 747174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft < 1322355270 299558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322355277 731348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find the texture id -> terrain.png index mapping < 1322355286 201693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lol really? < 1322355286 380657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pair of field boots enjoying a warm summer day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fieldboots.jpg < 1322355289 627684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1322355297 325207 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy boots < 1322355298 489973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't want to write my own. < 1322355300 801131 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be friends < 1322355327 42164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322355346 430732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume the mapping will be truly terrible < 1322355357 113910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm really hoping it's not in uh < 1322355358 979788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :equation form like the above < 1322355365 498978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : private TexturePackList texturePack; < 1322355367 413517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha? < 1322355378 546660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you checked that each block object isn't storing a constant of the offset in the texture it wants? < 1322355380 959344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not that :/ < 1322355381 467898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1322355386 767438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh god. < 1322355396 218751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a possibility < 1322355396 909338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i literally hadn't even considered that. < 1322355403 102104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322355413 520746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well block class rather than block object < 1322355413 699481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's typically how texture maps are done. < 1322355416 510551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least historically < 1322355419 361273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322355426 792379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there really a class for every single block? < 1322355440 773479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know. I was just suggesting a possibility < 1322355440 952302 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop power < 1322355449 521020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return blockIndexInTexture; < 1322355452 40110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it wouldn't surprise me if each one has a class or such < 1322355452 218824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA FUCK ME < 1322355461 77424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1322355464 337797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're right. < 1322355467 419005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322355472 345480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god, Block.java: < 1322355475 97826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : public static final Block planks; < 1322355475 276797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : public static final Block sapling; < 1322355475 276909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : public static final Block bedrock; < 1322355475 276967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : public static final Block waterMoving; < 1322355477 130600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1322355483 437240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1322355488 82086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322355493 90675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is that? < 1322355493 747679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Block.java contains a static final instance for every single type of block < 1322355498 947264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322355504 431168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an interesting design < 1322355504 610383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's casted to the appropriate subclass < 1322355506 327727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when needed < 1322355511 525869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i. want. to. die. < 1322355513 306622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1322355520 244527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where are they instantiated? < 1322355525 244419 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP. Models anything. < 1322355528 442804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to know. < 1322355534 667148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to get my data and run. < 1322355536 857578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link me to it at least < 1322355551 523080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: download MCP, run decompile.sh, look at src/minecarft/net/minecraft/src/Block.java. < 1322355555 135678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322355561 313170 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA FUCK ME" < 1322355562 800740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like too much work < 1322355572 533360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: download zip -> extract -> cp minecraft.jar -> sh decompile.sh < 1322355574 271682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1322355576 451710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much work < 1322355583 85594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1322355601 955878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway maybe it is all in the constructor: < 1322355619 668168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this.planks = new Block(id,whatever,whatever) < 1322355631 301862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in which case you could handle that easily < 1322355640 139897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth would you set static variables in a constructor < 1322355649 6376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i am relatively certain it'll be in the subclasses < 1322355654 828043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the static constructor... < 1322355660 40201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes. < 1322355672 254421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and I can think of nowhere else, since the declaration didn't assign them < 1322355687 993998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: public static final Block planks; rather than public static final Block planks = new ...; < 1322355691 494609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could probably use grep to make this easier somehow? < 1322355697 334664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes I've been gerpping. < 1322355705 512842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gerpping < 1322355711 663303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322355716 18970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1322355720 937984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gerpping in minecarft. < 1322355729 200568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322355817 573797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean eventually you could probably just grep a pattern that generates a list of every single offset used. < 1322355820 548196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1322355843 421571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once y ou get l33t enough < 1322355844 161836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i need to find where they are first. < 1322355849 705940 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there a nice way to minimize fullscreen Uplink on Linux? < 1322355859 169195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-tab? < 1322355860 418234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: alt+tab < 1322355861 62679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322355873 337768 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work for me < 1322355878 309872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I was alt+tabbing wrong < 1322355894 926083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : stone = (new BlockStone(1, 1)).setHardness(1.5F).setResistance(10F).setStepSound(soundStoneFootstep).setBlockName("stone"); < 1322355895 105355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : grass = (BlockGrass)(new BlockGrass(2)).setHardness(0.6F).setStepSound(soundGrassFootstep).setBlockName("grass"); < 1322355895 105545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : dirt = (new BlockDirt(3, 2)).setHardness(0.5F).setStepSound(soundGravelFootstep).setBlockName("dirt"); < 1322355895 105649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cobblestone = (new Block(4, 16, Material.rock)).setHardness(2.0F).setResistance(10F).setStepSound(soundStoneFootstep).setBlockName("stonebrick"); < 1322355897 270886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : planks = (new Block(5, 4, Material.wood)).setHardness(2.0F).setResistance(5F).setStepSound(soundWoodFootstep).setBlockName("wood").setRequiresSelfNotify(); < 1322355900 436066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : sapling = (new BlockSapling(6, 15)).setHardness(0.0F).setStepSound(soundGrassFootstep).setBlockName("sapling").setRequiresSelfNotify(); < 1322355903 451249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bedrock = (new Block(7, 17, Material.rock)).setBlockUnbreakable().setResistance(6000000F).setStepSound(soundStoneFootstep).setBlockName("bedrock").disableStats(); < 1322355906 37689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: best design < 1322355906 444845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : waterMoving = (new BlockFlowing(8, Material.water)).setHardness(100F).setLightOpacity(3).setBlockName("water").disableStats().setRequiresSelfNotify(); < 1322355909 450009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : waterStill = (new BlockStationary(9, Material.water)).setHardness(100F).setLightOpacity(3).setBlockName("water").disableStats().setRequiresSelfNotify(); < 1322355912 468582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lavaMoving = (new BlockFlowing(10, Material.lava)).setHardness(0.0F).setLightValue(1.0F).setLightOpacity(255).setBlockName("lava").disableStats().setRequiresSelfNotify(); < 1322355915 475191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I hate you for being right. < 1322355917 493225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, doesn't have the texture index, so ha! < 1322355939 230618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, yes it does, maybe? < 1322355943 410180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : protected Block(int i, int j, Material material) < 1322355943 589636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1322355943 589838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this(i, material); < 1322355943 589940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : blockIndexInTexture = j; < 1322355943 590041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1322355946 11036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I hate me for being right about that < 1322355949 466649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1322355958 575760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : button = (new BlockButton(77, stone.blockIndexInTexture)).setHardness(0.5F).setStepSound(soundStoneFootstep).setBlockName("button").setRequiresSelfNotify(); < 1322355964 804656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it's in the classes except when it's obvious. < 1322355966 954099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omits slightly < 1322355968 577080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322355969 171699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vomits < 1322355974 447779 :Sgeo|Uplink!~Uplink@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322355980 524987 :Sgeo|Uplink!~Uplink@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-Tabbing does nothing < 1322355981 363846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1322355982 690711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : stone = (new BlockStone(1, 1)).setHardness(1.5F).setResistance(10F).setStepSound(soundStoneFootstep).setBlockName("stone"); < 1322355985 696235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has the texture ID < 1322355986 195706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1322355988 743647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : grass = (BlockGrass)(new BlockGrass(2)).setHardness(0.6F).setStepSound(soundGrassFootstep).setBlockName("grass"); < 1322355989 736181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't < 1322355998 641644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look: "stone.blockIndexInTexture" < 1322355999 708172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : protected BlockGrass(int i) < 1322355999 887059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1322355999 887240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : super(i, Material.grass); < 1322355999 887344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : blockIndexInTexture = 3; < 1322355999 887446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : setTickOnLoad(true); < 1322356001 274647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1322356006 39657 :Sgeo|Uplink!~Uplink@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, going to go get myself disavowed over a 300c fine < 1322356007 241198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322356010 877111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, which is assigned by < 1322356012 976593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : stone = (new BlockStone(1, 1)).setHardness(1.5F).setResistance(10F).setStepSound(soundStoneFootstep).setBlockName("stone"); < 1322356015 206706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322356019 348197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some classes have the texture index in the file < 1322356020 859974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :others don't < 1322356023 735390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1322356028 250121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistent design. < 1322356028 441103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh my god < 1322356036 337495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1322356050 265438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically only the ones with a texture used in more than one place are done here, I think. < 1322356061 278647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, even so.... new < 1322356065 293716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eew* < 1322356179 33145 :Sgeo|Uplink!~Uplink@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiting to be disavowed < 1322356182 103610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code really makes me hate myself. < 1322356193 616073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322356194 960138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK < 1322356196 32290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I can do < 1322356198 54769 :Sgeo|Uplink!~Uplink@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to disconnect to go on the Uplink channel, that won't be the disavow < 1322356200 506124 :Sgeo|Uplink!~Uplink@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1322356202 906088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is write a java program < 1322356207 823738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that iterates through each block < 1322356209 994568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prints its ID and index < 1322356223 482167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i want to DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE i hate this so much < 1322356257 884254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1322356273 801237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this horrible urge to just < 1322356275 707505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only support painterly < 1322356278 803289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has a texture per file version < 1322356282 375576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could this be an artifact of the decompilation? < 1322356287 997312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the real code is quite clean? < 1322356290 510521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322356293 285267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322356293 809885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes the arity of constructors < 1322356295 208405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shit < 1322356295 535717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322356295 895721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322356439 361069 :amtal!~amtal@office.spawngrid.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322356458 939039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok i _think_ I have a strategy < 1322356466 522619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep each line, if the constructor arguments are right, then I have the ID and texture index < 1322356473 5125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, look up that class for a line that sets the index < 1322356491 735024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY CAN'T THIS BE IN A DATA FILE SOMEWHERE < 1322357244 670117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322357246 156695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322357665 480137 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lavaMoving = (new BlockFlowing(10, Material.lava)).setHardness(0.0F).setLightValue(1.0F).setLightOpacity(255).setBlockName("lava").disableStats().setRequiresSelfNotify(); -- this is an interesting coding style < 1322357694 355016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is. < 1322357709 421597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess itidus has never seen hideous method chaining stuff before. < 1322357714 704109 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1322357718 805799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hideous *shrugs* < 1322357722 327471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard practice in Smalltalk and Objective-C < 1322357723 908203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think Perl too < 1322357734 477301 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen method chaining before < 1322357742 150391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really standard but it's commonly used in some libraries. < 1322357750 932667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :commin in Python libraries as well. < 1322357753 935036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*common < 1322357763 24986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that, Python libraries don't do explicit setters < 1322357842 731769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do, it's certainly not encouraged though. < 1322357854 734625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example pyparsing uses that style, and I think Twisted does in some cases? I don't remember < 1322357919 571796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322357935 202731 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its kind of like saying < 1322358015 362889 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct { int x, y, z; } point; point a.x(4).y(6).z(8); < 1322358049 321213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the methods just return self/this/whatever < 1322358054 386033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can call more methods on the return value. < 1322358066 81838 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a.x = 4; a.y = 6; a.z = 8; < 1322358072 468733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't necessarily have to be methods that set members, but they usually are. < 1322358077 104728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh my notations are always messy and inconsistent < 1322358083 594692 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly gets a vision of $ chains in Haskell < 1322358098 319244 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... is sort of like the same thing, isn't it? < 1322358110 293401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not... really. < 1322358135 107515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the functions update a record and then return that record, then sure. < 1322358169 360751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it's not quite the same because in this style you're doing in-place operations < 1322358222 445638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be more like calling functions on an IORef via modifyIORef or something. < 1322358270 194082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo suddenly gets a vision of $ chains in Haskell < 1322358271 823839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. chains < 1322358290 981801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it is similar. < 1322358393 982947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: correction: it's not really hideous by itself; it's hideous because that is the /cleanest/ way to do something like that in Java. < 1322358412 354796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322358439 110168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find this highly disconcerting. < 1322358465 522391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHY CAN'T THIS BE IN A DATA FILE SOMEWHERE <-- not oop enough < 1322358485 71384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MOM ISN'T OOP ENOUGH < 1322358511 350776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, time to Perl this shit up. < 1322358530 717398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322358545 429056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yessssssss < 1322358546 588178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could just compile a few of the java files and link your own java program against it < 1322358561 42771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but I don't know how to go from block ID to block. and it'd be harder than just perling up the source < 1322358586 38283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you could do reflection to list the static members of the class I think < 1322358589 401641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iterate through them < 1322358593 986425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : public int getBlockColor() < 1322358594 165163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder WTF that does. < 1322358597 580503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier to use perl though < 1322358606 736709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's less preferable than finding how to look up frmo a block id :) < 1322358608 762737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is always easier to use Perl than Java. < 1322358613 961037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but anyway I don't know what the dependencies of this thing is. < 1322358632 88081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: admittedly, I am not very happy about depending on the MCP to get the indices < 1322358633 536754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought java had import stuff at the top? < 1322358641 378257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. i am not going to recursively search for imports < 1322358648 409877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322358683 402310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<$blocks_java> until /blocksList = new Block\[256\];$/; < 1322358683 581129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit this is a compelling coding style :P < 1322358718 868977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't understand it < 1322358723 934037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> reads a line < 1322358724 536440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1322358731 509875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the rest? < 1322358743 216555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think < 1322358746 774254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322358747 821516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1322358750 795535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1322358758 753392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very.... perl < 1322358762 267664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Is there a way to temporarily reassign the default file handle :-) < 1322358774 595190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1322358776 969490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the name < 1322358778 174217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh..... < 1322358797 573825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look it up < 1322358811 159883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :select < 1322358813 174788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: admittedly, I am not very happy about depending on the MCP to get the indices <-- just parse the bytecode directly < 1322358818 841218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :select $file_handle < 1322358836 333220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1322358842 739186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then anywhere in perl docs where it says "if file handle is omitted, uses the currently selected file handle" < 1322358846 681335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good < 1322358852 418627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now referring to whatever you select'd < 1322358870 459273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I love how select doubles as the perl thing and select(2) < 1322358874 61566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so beautiful < 1322358877 421063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322358899 367567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so uh is that block-scoped < 1322358903 334779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure that it doubles as select(2) ? < 1322358907 48541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no fucking clue. :P < 1322358912 767527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may be global < 1322358913 577355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322358920 153729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It does: http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/select.html < 1322358927 107255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it does. < 1322358947 231116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do recently uploaded youtube videos always list ~300-320 views on popular channels? As in uploaded in the last couple of hours. < 1322358969 332629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even realistic number, it doesn't even change after I watched it for example < 1322358986 745999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl open my $x, "test"; {select $x; print "hi"} print "hi"; close $x; < 1322359000 857499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: caching? < 1322359015 658580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably, but why about 300? < 1322359016 998951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl open my $x, "test"; { print "hi"} print "hi"; close $x; < 1322359017 483616 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihi < 1322359024 792119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: globally scoped, apparently. < 1322359028 373518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because that's how many view it before the first regeneration from 0 views? < 1322359037 58653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: sigh < 1322359045 900695 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what did you want to use select for? < 1322359052 81829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, I would expect it to vary between a channel with about 1 million subscribers and one with 100 000 subscribers < 1322359053 752555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1322359055 739441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: shortening the code :) < 1322359060 450690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *shrug* < 1322359105 218889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, in general elliott is always lazily golfing everything < 1322359112 402005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lazily"? < 1322359116 862340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway you can do $old_f = select; select $new_f; [...code...]; select $old_f; < 1322359121 98979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want. < 1322359126 331672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes. ugly. < 1322359127 352598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, you don't super-golf everything to remove every single char you can < 1322359146 586708 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am always golfing as well. < 1322359148 87243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of uninitialized value $_ in pattern match (m//) at colours.pl line 12. < 1322359149 314840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1322359150 187767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I did < 1322359153 36742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do <> until /blah/; < 1322359156 264785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely $_ should always be assigned there < 1322359162 993142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it only assign to $_ when it's a loop condition >_> < 1322359177 792723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it only assigns to $_ when it's <> actually. < 1322359181 120455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in while(<>) < 1322359186 768427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1322359195 134295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what's a nicer way to write {} until ...; < 1322359208 302629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until(...) {} < 1322359208 966329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322359227 525511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322359235 717010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you write "discard lines until one of them matches this regexp" < 1322359279 271356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ??? < 1322359296 742152 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropUntil? >.> < 1322359300 961077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(<>) { last if /blah/} < 1322359301 300399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322359312 698387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: surely you mean < 1322359315 857401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last if /blah/ while <>; < 1322359316 259887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322359323 832221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if last can go there, but sure. < 1322359326 575513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... < 1322359327 18870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322359329 31679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do that. :P < 1322359337 462287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr if x while y < 1322359341 356158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not valid (unfortunately) < 1322359351 96896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322359359 957510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi" if 1 while 1 < 1322359360 374398 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.7931 line 1, near "1 while" < 1322359367 323257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: now to find why it doesn't terminate :D < 1322359379 363437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this valid then? { last if /blah/ } while <>; < 1322359389 731827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe so. < 1322359391 738944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a do < 1322359394 914417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while is then a do-while loop < 1322359395 276442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1322359405 771624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322359409 83433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl {print "hi" if 1} while 1 < 1322359409 576668 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.8056 line 1, near "while 1" < 1322359419 279773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do do {...} if $x < 1322359420 437923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1322359443 68353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do {...} is basically "execute this block and return an expression" except when it's part of a do...while < 1322359449 710387 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's all do-whiley < 1322359468 675036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure there's a better way to explain it) < 1322359474 81709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I bet the docs explain it better) < 1322359532 588759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really a function. Returns the value of the last command in the sequence of commands indicated by BLOCK. When modified by the while or until loop modifier, executes the BLOCK once before testing the loop condition. (On other statements the loop modifiers test the conditional first.) < 1322359537 614581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not it basically says the same thing. < 1322359539 923519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not/no/ < 1322359613 697985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but yes, unfortunately you can't reduce everything to beautiful postfix statement modifiers. < 1322359627 398943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you must write conventional looking loops. < 1322359638 711374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cries. < 1322359741 305644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm actually fucking tempted to try and use a java bytecode lib < 1322359759 498158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: noooo, don't let it fucking temp you! < 1322359774 788270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the best kind of temptation! < 1322359853 581339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how do i make an unnumbered group :| < 1322359878 248275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a what? < 1322359880 692084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322359882 789441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex < 1322359886 271388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?:...) < 1322359910 849591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I find it better to name groups that you want to extract rather than putting ugly ?:'s everywhere < 1322359923 145888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it depends on the complexity of the regex. < 1322360066 842134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why can't I last inside of do { ... } while (blah); < 1322360086 50986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the docs say so. :P < 1322360087 916075 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-160-168.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322360102 51720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do BLOCK does not count as a loop, so the loop control statements next, last, or redo cannot be used to leave or restart the block. See perlsyn for alternative strategies. < 1322360122 634969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: .............. < 1322360134 594827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet "alternative strategies" involve labels. < 1322360135 398988 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-156-33.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322360139 694400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For last, you have to be more elaborate: < 1322360139 873827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : LOOP: { < 1322360139 873958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : do { < 1322360139 874063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : last if $x = $y**2; < 1322360140 693876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : # do something here < 1322360142 755279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } while $x++ <= $z; < 1322360144 727761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1322360144 907054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322360146 752242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA < 1322360251 230101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: alternative, put a label on the next line and goto < 1322360254 68084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322360436 475882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAAH THIS SUCKS < 1322360480 235075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unless can even be followed by one or more elsif statements, though you may want to think twice before using that particular language construct, as everyone reading your code will have to think at least twice before they can understand what's going on." < 1322360499 381929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what? trying to do weird things in perl. I agree. < 1322360537 645393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, having to write this stupid script < 1322360543 59105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think perl should just have an "else unless" :P < 1322360552 425645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which will be a COMPLETE PAIN to automate < 1322360579 785617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elsunless bahahahaha < 1322360630 394884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the LABEL is omitted, the loop control statement refers to the innermost enclosing loop. This may include dynamically looking back your call-stack at run time to find the LABEL. Such desperate behavior triggers a warning if you use the use warnings pragma or the -w flag." < 1322360643 244293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so functions < 1322360646 310839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can affect loops in their callers < 1322360648 60579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1322360650 158082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322360670 55844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto can affect anything anywhere. < 1322360681 229827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you goto into the middle of a procedure < 1322360686 475801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe so, yes. < 1322360689 672924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessssssssss < 1322360705 316567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you goto in between the if and the ( in "if (...)" < 1322360707 489348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have some restrictions < 1322360712 774092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....no < 1322360714 597499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yes, what about 4 bits into the ( < 1322360715 773912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe so. < 1322360750 432918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goto-LABEL form finds the statement labeled with LABEL and resumes execution there. It can't be used to get out of a block or subroutine given to sort. It can be used to go almost anywhere else within the dynamic scope, including out of subroutines, but it's usually better to use some other construct such as last or die. < 1322360756 638511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't goto out of sort blocks. :( < 1322360758 859168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad day. < 1322360763 418799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1322360810 385743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you do actually need a label to goto to < 1322360830 37127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they must be in "the dynamic scope" < 1322360851 608720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, on the call stack? < 1322360853 741783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1322360915 217715 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note that with wantarray and caller you can write subroutines that do different things depending on where they're called. < 1322360996 262808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub constant { wantarray? (1,2,3,4,5): < 1322360996 631237 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.10598 line 1, at EOF < 1322360997 411674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322361012 171917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub constant { wantarray? (1,2,3,4,5): "hi" } print constant; print scalar constant < 1322361012 698347 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12345hi < 1322361295 530615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wantarray gives you three contexts. 1 = array, 0 = scalar, undef = void < 1322361441 537965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know :P < 1322361493 654931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1322361494 602949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322361518 650222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MORE YOU (ALREADY) KNOW. < 1322361543 869358 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322361716 511177 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub continue { print "(haha sucker)"; last} for(1..100) { print "hi "; continue } print ' done"; < 1322361717 35944 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.12183 line 1, near "; continue" < 1322361735 160484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub please_continue { print "(haha sucker)"; last} for(1..100) { print "hi "; please_continue } print ' done"; < 1322361735 677705 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at /tmp/input.12260 line 1. < 1322361755 318276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub please_continue { print '(haha sucker)'; last} for(1..100) { print 'hi '; please_continue } print ' done'; < 1322361755 801214 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi (haha sucker) done < 1322361775 484336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't think of them as functions; think of them as control flow statements. :) < 1322362049 549955 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322362059 564469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what you would use to emulate last, next, and goto in Haskll. Cont I guess? < 1322362087 609198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Cont. < 1322362093 82297 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Haskell is functional programming language it doesn't have control flows < 1322362115 489175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to "monadic programming" which typically emulates a number of imperative style control flow statements via functions. < 1322362123 21687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least < 1322362125 432974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes does. < 1322362140 449233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some monads can do so, I suppose. < 1322362140 879897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily typically. < 1322362183 591501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I believe cont would work for goto. I don't know how you would do last and next though. < 1322362189 419200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka break and continue) < 1322362202 981575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Haskell functional programming also means you don't need control flows. < 1322362207 559747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably just a specialized kind of goto. < 1322362207 738543 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: emulate is a good word < 1322362227 364315 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Probably it can make a monad with those kind of commands possible if you wanted to < 1322362227 543081 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps model is a better word < 1322362235 707869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"represent formally" :P < 1322362245 22909 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too! < 1322362257 25852 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but operationally, you shouldnt think of it as control flow at all < 1322362309 891934 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322362365 605245 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322362373 846731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weird thing is that I'm pretty sure it will look nothing like normal gotos/breaks/continues < 1322362387 985204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically instead of labels you'd use monadic functions. < 1322362469 821937 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti, UPDATE < 1322362522 34267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think to get break and continue to look exactly as they do in imperative languages you would need to pass the "label" to break to as part of the loop construct, set two implicit parameters, and then access the implicit parameters with the break and continue function. < 1322362526 763760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*functions < 1322362587 137499 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you'd just have one "goto" function and then explicitly pass the continuations to go to. < 1322363009 690857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you killed yourself yet? < 1322363500 534473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1322363505 681276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip elliott < 1322363680 765863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :died as he lived; ripped to pieces by gotos. < 1322363786 73072 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the word "ecliptic longitude" or do you think it should be called something else? < 1322363850 50872 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like "clitoric longitude" < 1322363854 668276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it's a good word, but I don't know what it means so I can't make a normative assertion there. < 1322363882 713395 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equatorial coordinates have "right ascension" and "declination" instead. < 1322363907 79349 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ecliptic longitude is not the same thing as the longitude of the Earth. < 1322363945 581136 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ecliptic longitude means the angle measure on the plane of the ecliptic (the orbit of the Earth around the Sun). < 1322363997 15289 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is fairly descriptive < 1322364012 452425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right ascension is the same thing but on the equatorial plane. < 1322364013 802960 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you prefer ecliptic latitude? < 1322364030 961481 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ecliptic latitude is the other coordinate. < 1322364044 37257 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you have ecliptic longitude and ecliptic latitude. < 1322364218 925734 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :patashu, ya here? :P < 1322364829 107753 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322365898 95959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi im back from dead < 1322365973 936054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1322366136 264632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cry < 1322366147 161566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: cry < 1322366149 321476 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cry < 1322366225 859550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh WHY IS THERE NOT A SIMPLE PLACE FOR THIS DATA < 1322366259 218959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :W H Y < 1322366263 794133 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is not a simple data < 1322366281 819746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1322366287 916268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a byte=>byte mapping < 1322366292 134270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally need 256 bytes < 1322366296 922848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a format that isn't < 1322366298 587789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"java code" < 1322366300 222275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1322366304 765647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"image with overlayed text in tiny font" < 1322366323 194726 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Maybe convert it < 1322366352 858251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried that, the java code is too varying to do so, with conditionals and the like < 1322366359 568380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the image with text, some of the text is abbreviated, etc. < 1322366362 690667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to map to the data values < 1322366381 819253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that Java code to output it in the format you want < 1322366411 121361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've considered that, but getting the java code is quite hard, and it'd be a pain to compile it each time :( < 1322368157 640487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Found dependencies: URI::Escape, LWP::MediaTypes, Encode::Locale, HTTP::Status, HTTP::Negotiate, File::Listing, HTML::Entities, HTTP::Daemon, Net::HTTP, URI, HTML::HeadParser, HTTP::Cookies, HTTP::Date, HTTP::Request::Common, HTTP::Response, WWW::RobotRules, HTTP::Request < 1322368158 680770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good grief < 1322368174 335919 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here < 1322368175 7832 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up < 1322368199 767892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl dependencies < 1322368205 416875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also myndzi wants to talk to you? < 1322368210 802218 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah meant that part < 1322368212 577496 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :beat the game yet? < 1322368326 183465 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i came back to it when i said that < 1322368327 743862 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on level 12 < 1322368328 335418 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322368342 451665 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 is amusing < 1322368345 205914 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fell for it < 1322368381 621225 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 4-9 took me the longest so far < 1322368677 716577 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322368821 579513 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322369022 856642 :amtal!~amtal@office.spawngrid.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322369160 575644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The difference between theory and practice is larger in practice than it is in theory." < 1322369169 86269 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Michele Campeotto < 1322369191 674977 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1322369191 854263 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep it up < 1322369255 780943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know who they are, or even if they first said it or quoted someone else < 1322369585 908577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = (0 => "scalar", 1 => "list"); sub test { wantarray} print $x{test}, " "; print @x{test} < 1322369595 318095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. < 1322369600 43712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %x = (0 => "scalar", 1 => "list"); sub test { wantarray} print $x{test}, " "; print @x{test} < 1322369623 751469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmm < 1322369652 898554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe @x{$key} doesn't work for hashes.. < 1322369676 490779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it < 1322369679 861868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %x = (0 => "scalar", 1 => "list"); print @x{0,1} < 1322369680 387100 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :scalarlist < 1322369682 333130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't hashes contain scalars < 1322369683 837298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does nevermind. < 1322369686 532552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322369701 3422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but @blah{$ind} says "I want a list result" < 1322369711 727158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then $ind is evaluated in list context < 1322369717 737896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and taken as a list of keys to fetch < 1322369742 63134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how "slices" work in perl. @array[1..10] < 1322369800 217199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$array[1..10] would interpret 1..10 in list context, which is like some weird flip flop operator. < 1322369805 427186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scalar context < 1322369836 299400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, $array[1,2,3,4] would evaluate 1,2,3,4 to 4 because , in scalar context is like , in C. < 1322369878 666899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see, this is superior to everything you have ever worked with in any other programming language. < 1322369886 600095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a lie) < 1322370335 197168 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322370406 773047 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322370407 136445 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322370407 315417 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322370601 748658 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322370875 233020 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, 4-12 is kind of a bitch < 1322370875 703528 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322370937 286061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl 2**2 < 1322370940 418082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print 2**2 < 1322370940 854533 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1322371444 433777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use List::MoreUtils; @x = (1,2,3); @y = (4,5,6); print join(' ', pairwise {$a + $b} @x,@y) < 1322371444 990298 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate List/MoreUtils.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /tmp/input.28034 line 1. < 1322371447 982560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322371455 3126 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad < 1322371608 944186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attn, is anyone alive someone who sometimes plays minecraft / just owns minecraft, testing urgently needed < 1322371614 135435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Patashu play minecraft, i swear Patashu played minecraft < 1322371642 309745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ha ha ha ha haa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha never < 1322371645 862727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :will I play minecraf < 1322371652 77423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraf < 1322371657 313364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322371659 919849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sic, motherfucker. < 1322371736 382881 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never played minecraft in my life < 1322371742 397544 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never even seen someone play minecraft in person < 1322371745 472693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. i thought you did < 1322371754 863037 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my knowledge about minecraft is like the knowledge one has of africa or france < 1322372082 334144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ping < 1322372086 170395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ping ping pnig ingp nig ipgn pgngipngpin pgin gpn igpnpgnipg < 1322372116 665995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi < 1322372123 737282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YESSS < 1322372130 378405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you play Minecraft from your current location! < 1322372145 128051 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current location, yes < 1322372148 546482 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have homework to do < 1322372152 785461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD DAMMIT < 1322372160 697827 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, fine, I'll play now < 1322372175 189842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No playing required :P < 1322372179 490325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just TESTIN' < 1322372181 10396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is uh < 1322372182 643884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to playing < 1322372202 59964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 95.149.229.230 < 1322372377 801290 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322372383 231431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: What happened :P < 1322372384 483276 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update < 1322372509 930623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone wrote "It sounds like Libras are kind of obtuse." in response to something I wrote. When asked for clarification, they said it is because 180 degrees. But Wikipedia says "Angles larger than a right angle and smaller than a straight angle are called obtuse angles." < 1322372531 97506 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was in a rush to tell you about UPDATE when computer slowed down < 1322372547 396472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT TESTING MINECRAFT IS MORE IMPORTANT ;D < 1322372554 230737 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1322372605 281865 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that server subtitled as reddit creative < 1322372607 672695 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mindboggles < 1322372627 756267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it is reddit creative... < 1322372636 929607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches chunks load. < 1322372648 112790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is... not so good so far. < 1322372651 825951 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322372661 741916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because everything's grey. < 1322372674 186008 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to fly < 1322372679 145670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-space. < 1322372702 384204 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't working < 1322372721 546381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1322372733 513820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much interesting, is there (I don't know what it actually looks like) < 1322372741 161745 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mouse pointer isn't being captured < 1322372742 791347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you try to /warp somewhere interesting? < 1322372797 572584 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1322372820 722057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /warp to get a list, I think. < 1322372822 246576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just pick one :P < 1322372854 509920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that looks pretty good. Is that water? < 1322372889 527112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1322372894 715432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/XJQSd.png < 1322372895 241640 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what water? < 1322372899 14459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What yer standing on. < 1322372905 729836 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1322372938 866363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What is it then? < 1322372941 292574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sure looks like water here. < 1322372951 357045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I see "water (10 deep)" all over the map. < 1322372956 474466 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers acting up, hold pn < 1322372962 166278 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh gotcha 4-12! < 1322372996 991337 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's grey, looks a little like the half-...whatever things < 1322373017 256273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm just asking you what the landscape is if not covered with water... < 1322373023 428266 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Landscape? < 1322373026 955958 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a structure < 1322373029 216203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1322373046 396225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you exit the structure? < 1322373055 177139 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm at surface level or near it < 1322373061 815148 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e21b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322373069 900875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y=64 exactly. < 1322373107 241553 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surrounded by water < 1322373115 266363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1322373117 490993 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not literally on the water < 1322373123 408953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This warp is ... not the best to test the colours. < 1322373123 587923 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the structure's on the water < 1322373126 257776 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322373133 139529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1322373144 459540 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1322373144 710159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322373151 553854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Some intricate open-air structure would be best. < 1322373179 215979 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only two warp points < 1322373192 50568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, a lot of this badness is due to me not handling the alpha... < 1322373222 110482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can I put you on another server? :P < 1322373241 281320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's now sky overhead, and lots of glass nearby < 1322373261 392263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry for impersonating you in chat, just had to check it worked.) < 1322373266 409440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("test" will go on your tombstone.) < 1322373305 733234 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see it < 1322373321 571722 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now MC's acting up < 1322373325 460976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disconnected you. < 1322373330 150490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could change the server. < 1322373336 114549 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!! < 1322373338 861107 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that mangling does look a little ugly < 1322373339 267840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1322373344 893511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what mangling < 1322373348 805936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ? < 1322373349 122456 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from your link < 1322373359 718110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which link :P < 1322373364 115894 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, scary that you're able to disconnect me < 1322373369 282994 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/mm68o/ghc_74_branched_whats_in_for_christmas/c3291tr < 1322373369 469276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Why is that scary? < 1322373379 849800 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless...... are you proxying? < 1322373392 86911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I produced that mcmap screenshot from thin air. < 1322373421 636246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right < 1322373429 769749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i linked it more as a "wow, polymorphic kinds are finally here!" thing < 1322373431 402604 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that you were separately connected, and testing some stalking tool < 1322373447 480374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Ah. No. < 1322373455 881184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm testing mcmap's new texture script. < 1322373459 204550 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting comp < 1322373473 850209 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322373508 623052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: challenge: try to find a good comment http://justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/perl-6-fibonacci-versus-haskell/ < 1322373584 989672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is the performance difference? I like to hate on Haskell because it is still so inefficient." < 1322373586 833084 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322373588 63062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322373589 874007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this dude < 1322373593 288331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I lol'd as well. < 1322373600 581626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that Perl 6 doesn't have a working implementation.. < 1322373635 76840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rakudo is fairly working < 1322373693 5950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hi < 1322373732 330797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's also funny on the grounds that perl (including perl 6 now) is always slow. < 1322373747 298976 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever make pizza with just tomato, garlic, olive oil and oregano? < 1322373748 727544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl regexps are fast unless you hit an edge-case afaiu < 1322373758 567234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No dough? < 1322373760 488233 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1322373764 30321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right but that's... it. < 1322373769 226750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where the performance ends. < 1322373769 556135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you just, like, burn the tomatoes until they're hard enough to form a base? < 1322373769 828413 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You need the pizza bread too. < 1322373771 535087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: KONNEKT < 1322373775 633928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's not "just" then! < 1322373784 165486 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I made a mistake. < 1322373786 801640 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blargh < 1322373790 309957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wut < 1322373808 896753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently some people are under the delusion that Perl is somehow fast? < 1322373853 993008 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, connected < 1322373866 702688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, teleportation is currently out of order < 1322373870 598033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1322373879 894814 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322373880 365908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you walk upwards? :P < 1322373891 47386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oop, stop. < 1322373898 885041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late. < 1322373900 841379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1322373914 76825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm going to need to override a few textures before this will even begin to look reasonable. < 1322373918 833012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1322373930 854230 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1322374058 502951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: could you try now maybe? :P >_> < 1322374151 521271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha < 1322374156 948868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: would I be correct in saying there's no grass nearby? < 1322374181 26896 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, there's... little bits of tall grass, I think? < 1322374184 298940 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But grass on dirt, no < 1322374188 696489 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You've sealed the monsters away, and conquered the Castle of Elite. Way to go!" < 1322374192 472445 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes there is < 1322374195 798482 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly not < 1322374203 194515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHADDABOUT NOW :P < 1322374205 909122 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You've even solved every puzzle in the game - you're the ultimate puzzle master!!" ;) < 1322374214 578494 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :( Patashu ) < 1322374223 97376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hahahah still no grass? < 1322374242 785104 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like snow < 1322374271 835567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying... < 1322374314 291403 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see that I died? < 1322374340 710185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, mcmap doesn't see things like that < 1322374350 44711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:12:02 [DIED] Unknown packet id: 0x9c < 1322374350 589917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feck < 1322374373 687669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you try and die as quickly as possible if I set it up again with debugging? < 1322374387 101288 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, ok < 1322374392 115038 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure the best way to die < 1322374394 540618 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kill ? < 1322374400 45980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /kill, or else jump off something high < 1322374402 782650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be that quick < 1322374413 269883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Started < 1322374450 355056 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: pizza margherita is even simpler, although it contains different ingredients. not that i've made it, only eaten it. < 1322374483 716264 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kill is disabled < 1322374504 272924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lava is not < 1322374506 408285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lava also works :) < 1322374548 381634 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, equally simple. < 1322374562 658699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then respawn or whatever you did last time < 1322374604 87314 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1322374613 945105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ? < 1322374617 579726 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did resaen after dying a lavary death < 1322374622 886683 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reapawn < 1322374624 860749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I omit the tomato and garlic but include salt < 1322374627 309258 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Respawn < 1322374641 359607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: oh, huh < 1322374644 384937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means it was something else :/ < 1322374668 418743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: What were you doing when it disconnected last time? < 1322374699 974848 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice myndzi < 1322374706 97255 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll ask you for hints later < 1322374718 810906 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, your variant is called pizza marinara < 1322374727 296987 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't remember < 1322374740 328972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322374743 848298 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I want to get back to homework < 1322374747 720889 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza#Pizza_types < 1322374763 329228 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just deliberately disconnected < 1322374896 762870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm afraid you're going to have to start playing minecraft to help me with edbugging < 1322374949 712691 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neapolitan is so ludicrously simple compared to american style pizza, or american style pizza is ludicrously overdone, dependent on view < 1322374960 690053 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry < 1322374977 530406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes i'm sorry i must inflict this on you. it is something we must achieve together. < 1322375060 822473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 4 dollars 1 cent = 8-16 hours < 1322375064 123347 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322375163 253865 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322375189 851567 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322375190 223393 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322375190 403696 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322375249 965543 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322375252 795863 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322375478 727845 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Client Quit < 1322376012 330795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia < 1322376016 524361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this article is very crufty < 1322376052 369986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's not crunchy or crusty < 1322376056 649347 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*munch* < 1322376101 313451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, in August 2007, the website WikiScanner began to trace the sources of changes made to Wikipedia by anonymous editors without Wikipedia accounts. The program revealed that many such edits were made by corporations or government agencies changing the content of articles related to them, their personnel or their work.[107] < 1322376106 318669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scared < 1322376126 371400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, corporations take /special interest/ in their Wikipedia articles? < 1322376128 531765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked. < 1322376133 460467 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's obviously because it can only be edited by people who don't edit wikipedia, for neutrality reasons. < 1322376146 373606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1322376191 491443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_content_by_subject.png < 1322376203 446932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see this chart with "pop culture" made distinct from "culture and arts" < 1322376288 227250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm surprised it's only 30%. < 1322376301 423157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also surprised that mathematics and logic is only 1%. < 1322376308 151863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was actually under the impression that -- yess < 1322376310 607037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that. < 1322376315 268316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also technology < 1322376320 202448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there were way more of those articles. < 1322376328 655885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, then again, this is where I spend most of my time on Wikipedia < 1322376336 771303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I'm a bit biased. < 1322376451 352981 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322376464 851579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletionism_and_inclusionism_in_Wikipedia "notable topic" < 1322376559 485715 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia is currently facing a problem of record numbers of volunteers abandoning the site due to excessive deletionism.[26][27][28][29][30][31] < 1322376562 516426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322376566 601628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of sources. < 1322376573 383528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the deletionsts kept removing the sourcse < 1322376575 260754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they had to have more < 1322376585 875126 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322376617 687721 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deletionism was deletionismed away and retconjuration was retconjured in < 1322376654 310508 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^what I said makes perfect sense to one fandom < 1322376661 688273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only just discovered this article existed. Is it not the biggest ever violation of Wikipedia:Avoid self-references? Not to mention the fact that it essentially consists of a synthesis of already published material - more like a collection of trivia than an encyclopaedic article. I'm amazed and deeply disappointed that this article somehow passed AFD, and to me it seems to cross a very dangerous line, taking us down the ro < 1322376669 707488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- deletionist < 1322376701 890635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking us down the ro < 1322376741 734474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the rest of the comment actually isn't important... < 1322376748 732534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad towards ever-increasing focus on Wikipedia itself in Wikipedia articles, and the gradual obliteration of the distinction between article-space and Wikipedia-space. This belongs in the latter, not the former. < 1322376752 568248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there you go < 1322376757 459522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't want the rest < 1322376977 108216 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't you know about the rule about ignore all rules? That is why you have to ignore it so that you can make such an article as that. They should have a article about Wikipedia, too. < 1322377206 785981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who plays Minecraft and also doesn't have homework??? < 1322377324 770146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't understand; there is an article about Wikipedia. < 1322377388 913026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, as it is supposed to me. But they should still make it like any other article, even if someone copies it on something else it can be valid < 1322377462 829234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a Wikipedia book, a collection of Wikipedia articles that can be easily saved, rendered electronically, and ordered as a printed book. For information and help on Wikipedia books in general, see Help:Books (general tips) and WikiProject Wikipedia-Books (questions and assistance). < 1322377467 661677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? I didn't know this was a thing. < 1322377468 275966 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322377488 859912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not as good as < 1322377490 265266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one we found < 1322377491 619504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it Sgeo < 1322377511 862330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Why_testing_is_good < 1322377512 163625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Why_testing_is_good_2 < 1322377513 69204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1322377516 36397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a spambot just < 1322377517 715321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :created thes < 1322377518 311909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1322377531 791233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 [[Why testing is good]] and [[Why testing is good 2]] don't have any spam links, they are so perfect, please don't delete them, please < 1322377532 33553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322377536 212834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 please < 1322377536 479586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322377541 616054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: esowiki is an ideal place to test your wiki spambot. < 1322377542 768670 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spambot fail. < 1322377552 445078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO FAIL IT'S BEAUTIFUL < 1322377575 134003 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, beauty would be a spambot that accidentally becomes sentient. < 1322377589 479039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so if we switched to hackiki, would spambots still be a problem? < 1322377610 878692 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not as much as MediaWiki, for various reasons. < 1322377639 862761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THERE'S NO WIKIPEDIA BOOK ON CATEGORY THEORY < 1322377642 253029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mad < 1322377661 818711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, if you require OpenID to login. And Hackiki is rare meaning less spambot programs specifically target it. < 1322377676 177594 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably none target it thus far. < 1322377679 581707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shouldn't require login < 1322377681 594991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty < 1322377682 111311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1322377682 765588 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think you should have both the MediaWiki and Hackiki, and give them read-only target to each other. < 1322377686 53 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but spambots can be fairly "generic" < 1322377690 971436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/target/access/ < 1322377780 412444 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it can be, but certain things it is less likely to do. Including OpenID, and protocols other than HTTP and SMTP. < 1322377802 182561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah let's make an openid gopher wiki. < 1322377848 360436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot use OpenID on anything other than HTTP except something else I have heard that they might make OpenID on any protocol. < 1322377870 352386 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with HTTP, the spambot usually do not use commands such as PUT < 1322377879 314529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know. < 1322377904 823205 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spambot doesn't have to be smart. Indeed, it doesn't need to be much more than a few lines of shell script using curl. < 1322377942 426658 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; however, regardless of how it is done, certain spambots are more common than others. < 1322377969 957961 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking that spammers are a bit like resistent bacteria < 1322378022 608478 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one may be resistent against certain spam-fighting methods. and some may be multiresistent. < 1322378045 219093 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one day there will be one which just cannot be stopped. < 1322378060 264782 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that may be true; but still, some are more common than others. < 1322378076 11778 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is the point I am making about the different commonness < 1322378102 972213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks hackiki is the solution to all of our problems. < 1322378126 684987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could even embed interpreters into our articles! < 1322378136 661793 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, Hackiki would help a lot of things. < 1322378155 441283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: think of the possible security issues. < 1322378158 964659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wonderful. < 1322378160 291791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to consider. < 1322378169 99116 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day we will find that a spambot has embedded a spambot into our articles. then singularity. < 1322378169 424423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suggest not removing the MediaWiki. < 1322378178 277582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But add the Hackiki too. < 1322378275 977261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when a spambot can't be stopped, it's indistinguishable from productive human contributions < 1322378277 228848 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably the wiki admins don't have a fucking clue how to stop the last kind of spam. < 1322378282 356410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point, spam has been solved < 1322378286 32409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, of course we do, it just relies on graue < 1322378291 395935 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without manual intervention. < 1322378299 534296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sound awfully fatalistic about this. < 1322378309 198829 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and graue is not responding i take < 1322378318 279141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's bothered because it's not a serious problem yet... < 1322378324 480633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue responded last time we had a huge spam influx < 1322378358 841289 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there was a day when the entire first page of recent changes was spam deletions, and that's not a serious problem? < 1322378393 888426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i see you don't remember the _last_ huge spam influx? < 1322378433 656146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised hackiki hasn't gotten more attention < 1322378434 715634 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i do. < 1322378451 154940 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the last huge spam influx have great spam < 1322378462 125644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322378465 307384 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322378489 117705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way to increase the changes in a horoscope board game would be to use extreme harmonics. But I think it should start with real positions and use various cards and moves to change things such as time offset and place offset and house systems and whatever. However, they would always update in real time. < 1322378498 703999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if made the hackiki interface a bit more user friendly it would catch on? < 1322378522 691822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you expect hackiki to be popular < 1322378557 232061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't make it more user friendly; for various reasons. One reason is that then too many people used it and it and spambots will target it. Other reason is to prevent you from making it impossible to use. < 1322378588 619253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it's a cool idea. :D) : )D : < 1322378646 227837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would at least expect some geek blogger to be like "yo dawg check out hackiki it's the bomb diggity" < 1322378686 145044 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bomb diggety eh? MAYBE I SHOULD CHECK IT OUT < 1322378800 16481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm? < 1322378803 376936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1322378808 901471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1322378817 255955 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : what was it Sgeo < 1322378822 25658 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1322378835 365376 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Esoteric programming languages book? < 1322378835 621824 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti are you a geek blogger maybe you could be the geek blogger you'd expect < 1322378854 651028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming languages book is good < 1322378857 750953 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/esoteric-programming-languages-including-hephaestus-books/1105758069?ean=9781243288011&itm=2&usri=brainfuck < 1322378864 400675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why testing is good is also good < 1322378890 15044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that a Japanese book mentions my esolang called AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! < 1322378921 969978 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, nice cover < 1322378962 807930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: one day I will have a bloggs < 1322378971 153813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my projecks < 1322378985 295900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/c/hephaestus-books all good < 1322379048 775378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nooo they < 1322379050 439193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :made the cover wrose < 1322379057 404632 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some even have ratings < 1322379070 300444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Articles On Posthumous Novels, including: The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, The Girl Who Played With Fire, The Girl Who Kicked The Hornets' Nest, Millennium (swedish Miniseries), The Metamorphosis, Radio Free Albemuth, Northanger Abbey (9/28/2011) < 1322379071 364229 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reviews < 1322379077 44074 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to read these reviews < 1322379108 777659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi buy minecraft i need... am tester < 1322379114 992663 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322379116 724193 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones have reviews? < 1322379129 172633 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can se because there are stars < 1322379149 469715 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how some people actually bought these books < 1322379194 775382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever died < 1322379195 134398 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how these books exist < 1322379201 243916 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From Cherryh's wesite: this is not a book by CJ Cherryh. It is a collection of Wiki articles made by a person trying to scam the public and the e-book system by using authors' names attached to what is not the authors' work." < 1322379214 74781 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, it does say "Articles on" < 1322379312 43860 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/serial-buses-including-hephaestus-books/1105516836?ean=9781244942738&itm=29&usri=hephaestus+books < 1322379319 806108 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$43 < 1322379345 405820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some of these sites the books have good reivews < 1322379347 327108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12566363-maximum-ride-including < 1322379354 820807 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could not put these books down! They were incredible. I do think that Max was a bit obonxious and some of the characters in the last books ( Max and Fang ) got a bit inconstant. But the boods were amazing nonetheless. I can't wait for the next book to come out in February 2012 < 1322379366 325353 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/c/hephaestus-books?sort=PD&size=30&startat=1 most expensive books < 1322379371 598198 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the hephaestus books < 1322379401 362350 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, wow < 1322379415 231824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boods were amazing < 1322379419 590716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect < 1322379424 463602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just people giving reviews on the wrong book < 1322379425 374285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than < 1322379428 118596 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah < 1322379429 351795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :purchasing it and reading it and reviewing it < 1322379430 780099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Role-playing, including: Acting, Role-playing Game, Sexual Roleplay, Psychodrama, Roleplay Simulation, Area Of Effect, Sociodrama, Empty-chair ... Game (pen And Paper), Free Rpg Day < 1322379437 827478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hephaestus Books represents a new publishing paradigm, allowing disparate content sources to be curated into cohesive, relevant, and informative books. < 1322379444 945648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexual roleplay, psychodrama < 1322379472 202916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow choosemyhat.com is definitely the best website < 1322379485 40097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gregor < 1322379491 369414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm < 1322379493 151962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware. < 1322379499 28092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just surprised people vote on it < 1322379503 473135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow someone likes the pirate hat < 1322379518 791292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my vote is for all the ones that aren't pirate hats < 1322379520 390153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for sunday < 1322379530 225045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't vote on today's hate because it am already to day. < 1322379531 69505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys let's all vote for http://codu.org/hats/BlueBeret-sm.jpg < 1322379534 163176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll look like a complete shithead < 1322379535 457827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all day tomorrow < 1322379536 531150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://choosemyhat.com/?s=1&day=15306 < 1322379537 371900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go go go < 1322379550 450884 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I picked good hats < 1322379553 920352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I like good hats. < 1322379554 802348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1322379558 691228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: correct his injustice < 1322379572 702162 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i voted for beret < 1322379579 510941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is groupthink < 1322379579 893160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Sgeo still homework (sgeo is probably still homework) < 1322379592 415513 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is not homework < 1322379600 949313 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is soon food < 1322379602 537873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sgeo < 1322379603 787799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy in any way < 1322379611 101380 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too busy to vote on a hat < 1322379618 874081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasnt thinking about hat but ok < 1322379621 67419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: vote for mine < 1322379623 692907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the awesome choices < 1322379633 150226 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION voted beret < 1322379633 589605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that aren't the pirate hat or the beret < 1322379651 95048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beret is the only one that will have gregor punched in the face ten times in two days < 1322379675 465294 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is clueless about fashion < 1322379684 197901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codu.org/hats/TamOShanter-sm.jpg < 1322379687 686089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot this one. < 1322379707 420724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :voting that one for tuesday < 1322379708 945090 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good < 1322379890 956934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the only one with good taste in hats. < 1322379895 650962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for us to all listen to superturing again < 1322379898 341342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/e/superturing/superturing.ogg < 1322379945 301437 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you don't happen to know toby elliott or matt mcpherrin, do you? < 1322379965 748670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's this person stealing my name < 1322379980 756891 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a man greater than you < 1322379987 931232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible < 1322379995 116698 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're insane :P < 1322380001 310228 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good song < 1322380002 206722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perfect < 1322380004 382673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a rule, that, if an aspect line vanishes while a piece is standing on it, then that piece is removed from the game. < 1322380006 940828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION insane and perfect < 1322380029 610305 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me, elliott, how has your life insanity been lately anyhow? < 1322380047 990580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect; before you ask, the perfection has been insane < 1322380049 583151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/TobyElliottUK/status/140505693936562177 < 1322380052 556451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found toby elliott for you < 1322380084 618362 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not him < 1322380090 224347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's definitely him < 1322380093 949979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guarantee it < 1322380096 681636 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two toby elliotts??? < 1322380110 195416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to accept this < 1322380110 839030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be only one < 1322380127 439161 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :he works at mozilla, hence I asked gregor < 1322380183 24553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codu.org/music/op9/GRegor-op9.ogg I could easily imagine this in a Zelda game. < 1322380206 218861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with some more percussion < 1322380209 209959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gregor embarrassed of op9 or is it too new for that, i forget < 1322380217 122653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only really listened to op. 13 < 1322380267 170128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of his earlier ones are pretty good, too. < 1322380727 545387 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the opening bars of the melody are very close to super smash bros music < 1322380781 393914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could imagine it being in a zelda game as a joke < 1322380786 369698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I thought so as well actually < 1322380808 3567 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My main problem with Op. 9 is the synth is terribad. < 1322380814 551672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: picky picky < 1322380823 624530 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322380851 456683 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main problem is the only interesting things are the parts that make you go what the fuck, that's not right < 1322380872 844649 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :superturing was intriguing tho < 1322380903 465437 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not listened to Op. 9 all the way through, because I can't stand that synth. < 1322380905 553356 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been wanting to do something like for some time now < 1322380926 177388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I need is a clone of Sgeo. Wait, no. < 1322380950 147287 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I'm done cooking I'll come help you < 1322380958 862358 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can help you right now < 1322380960 393758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO COOKERY < 1322380961 810934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY SUFFERING < 1322380967 76391 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it helps you that i'm leaving right now < 1322380972 518572 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays something from Distant Worlds II; that ought to clean it out < 1322380972 697466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It totally does. Thx < 1322380989 645136 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real orchestra > synth < 1322381031 303136 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like terribad synth < 1322381032 798070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an astute observation < 1322381063 262656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: me too < 1322381083 912341 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not so much that synthesised music is *inherently* bad as it is that, when it's imitating real instruments, it's far too often uncanny valley. < 1322381087 418955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ is just jealous because he can't write music with terrible synths. < 1322381112 589750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: me too < 1322381121 95350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orchestras sound boring < 1322381173 118554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what with their dynamic exression of pitch and volume, using real life physics to produce timbres < 1322381176 67938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring. < 1322381178 947068 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help python is telling me i cant refer to a variable in the lexically enclosing scope :||| i have a function within a function...and the function wont let me do the things i want to do... < 1322381185 972703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you can't in python 2 < 1322381187 463959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrap it in a list < 1322381189 304055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use [0] to access < 1322381191 200878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322381194 405826 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick < 1322381199 855929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: or just wrap it in an object < 1322381202 7857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might feel less bad < 1322381209 979146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: have you ever heard an orchestra, they're so predictable < 1322381212 407233 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects feel bad but maybe i can pretend it is a function < 1322381217 688521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1322381221 568231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, not necessarily < 1322381224 414322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :largely depends on the composer. < 1322381227 906397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you could use a function too. < 1322381239 708820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no sorry orchestras are boring the end my good friend monqy can back me up < 1322381242 811691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I thought Python 2.x had closures? < 1322381259 808272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not what monqy is talking about? < 1322381271 678886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he wants to modify things... < 1322381273 920994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1322381277 693301 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just reference < 1322381278 502313 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, very largely depends on the composer. < 1322381284 50695 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if i do objects it probably wont be the worst thing ive done in this thing...i made REALLY DUMB quasi pattern matching to ease the pain of not having pattern matching < 1322381300 494338 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some do fairly bland, boring stuff. Some blow your brains out, rearrange them, and put them back in. < 1322381310 67647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh if you reference then it works < 1322381313 974230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just mutation that doesn't work < 1322381316 180885 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmm < 1322381340 542929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does < 1322381352 107161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i was just testing wrognly < 1322381358 760269 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a dumb error message though < 1322381367 258950 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can't give names, my source for this is "listening to the classical radio station often, but not paying *that* close of attention to composer, so I can usually recognise composers but can't really tell you the names out of the blue") < 1322381386 247311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though actually,,,i might need mutation,,,because this thing is really dfumb < 1322381402 804327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Ref: def __init__(self, v=None): self.v = v < 1322381405 215697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: enjoy < 1322381422 241730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322381451 890768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I can say Bach is rather awesome. < 1322381453 158339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i will just be object oriented and make a class ;_; can i put a class inside a function that might make me feel less bad < 1322381461 678300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1322381478 15260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's generally preferable that you not do that though < 1322381480 130123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it breaks some things < 1322381481 650847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, who cares. < 1322381485 908018 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck preferability < 1322381492 690006 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1322381507 407913 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have given up on makign this thing preferable at all the moment i had to do it....... < 1322381513 979862 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in python) < 1322381521 190649 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's really no reason to not just put the class at top-level < 1322381534 476998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're doing things that involve dynamic creation of classes on the fly < 1322381537 773604 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which... you probably aren't < 1322381541 131511 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i am < 1322381544 761242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> :> :> < 1322381546 87475 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then good. < 1322381550 213801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do that. < 1322381602 68570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I just remember that there's some software somewhere (I don't remember anything else about it) that cannot do to classes that are not defined at top level. < 1322381613 246731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is very important, I know. < 1322381635 40953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was inspect? < 1322381649 609451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would subsequently affect a lot of libraries that utilize reflection. < 1322381653 180731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure. < 1322381822 972357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: anyway if you need some help let me know. < 1322381829 673473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322381856 667034 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i can handle this < 1322381889 157138 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only giving myself tomorrow to finish it on the threat of painful guilt so all the pain will probably be over soon < 1322382069 110762 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels useful today. < 1322382081 82978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have helped TWO people with TWO languages. minorly. < 1322382082 446907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessss < 1322382573 416179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh also it should be class ref(object): < 1322382588 237568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because capitalization style guide and new-style classes blah blah stupid < 1322382656 594341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but note that no one actually follows a standard capitalization in Python programs. < 1322382693 271248 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CamelCase_is_COOLbutipreferinconsistentCaSiNg < 1322382707 140495 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1322382713 782041 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my-favourite-is-probably-this-one-for-reasons < 1322382733 341781 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly-classy < 1322382745 124190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I like that one but also don't depending on the language syntax for reasons < 1322382749 456170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have already been discussed. < 1322382770 643321 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any capsy style depends on syntax < 1322382780 155185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the best is to just use spaces. < 1322382794 378093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on if you want to use spaces for other things < 1322382796 845104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example - another example < 1322382818 89723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah spaces are fine for everything < 1322382818 402745 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces may be best used there, but they may also be best used elsewhere < 1322382822 156177 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f an example < 1322382825 69287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :function application < 1322382831 235957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(best language) < 1322382867 43845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f g an example < 1322382873 79101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that's f ( g (an example)) < 1322382883 506889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :map g an example < 1322382885 503876 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also im not used enough to spaces in variable names so it feels too much like separate things whereas variables really should just feel really grouped together and ig et confused between lexeme boundares ;_; < 1322382894 26363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously this one is map f (an example) < 1322382895 385277 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In\ Tcl,\ this\ is\ quite \doable,\ if\ a\ bit\ silly. < 1322382902 260419 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a bit silly < 1322382917 694644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, s/ \/\ / < 1322382918 525592 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|I think a few languages allow this sort of thing| < 1322382941 736066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl ${hello hi} = 2; < 1322382944 278862 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate object method "hello" via package "hi" (perhaps you forgot to load "hi"?) at /tmp/input.16159 line 1. < 1322382948 280531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322382954 906478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird syntax < 1322382956 418543 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!tcl set {hello hi} 2 < 1322382988 133803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of course the best is to just use spaces. < 1322382990 961147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :++, except seriously < 1322383006 747538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I was being /partially/ serious < 1322383011 462095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it highly depends on the syntax, as monqy said. < 1322383028 403900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't practical if you have syntax because it forces you to make the syntax crappy to compensate < 1322383035 186484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're plain-text then it's really hard to raed < 1322383036 24802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read < 1322383036 203870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you can't mix Haskell-style functional application with spaces-in-variable-names and expect an unambiguous parse. < 1322383076 77071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you're advocating the use of spaces in variable names for languages that have no syntax? am I reading correctly? o_o < 1322383086 49793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322383094 440526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1322383119 227936 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Spaces in variable names could be perfectly sensible in a C-style language. < 1322383128 574347 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you'd have to ban spaces in type names. < 1322383137 541555 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no long long int for you!) < 1322383142 826160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: for instance, @lang allows spaces in variable names, obviously < 1322383154 230165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it doesn't exist? < 1322383156 825100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOOOOOH SNAP < 1322383162 528034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha. but no. < 1322383207 609469 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, @lang doesn't deal in plain text. < 1322383279 30756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang should read Microsoft Word documents as programs. < 1322383279 500634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322383284 781247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang < 1322383285 64356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322383286 206432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322383302 779363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help lang < 1322383303 70652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322383310 909528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you lambdabot < 1322383334 732437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang good command < 1322383335 32177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322383344 75470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: or presumably @lang has no syntax < 1322383346 267753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means. < 1322383383 991091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it does not. < 1322383432 231528 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I consider Forth to have syntax; thus I'm going to probably consider @lang to have syntax. < 1322383440 420225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1322383466 612759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider Lisp to have syntax; thus I'm going to probably consider @lang to have syntax. < 1322383476 899168 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also consider a straight-up parse tree to be syntax. < 1322383489 539137 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which Lisp is very close to being, but not quite :P) < 1322383491 652816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unless you speak @lang commands and store it as sound file. < 1322383505 936174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like... draw pictures < 1322383507 418217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax would require representation as a string < 1322383507 690289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... < 1322383517 801401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1322383526 817491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I dunno? maybe? < 1322383529 463864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping duh < 1322383529 722253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322383531 620469 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax would require representation. < 1322383542 560831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you would describe the syntax of pure-data, for example. < 1322383544 525943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't. a natural number has no syntax < 1322383550 498487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's all graphical and flow-charty < 1322383562 187152 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A natural number doesn't have inherent representation. < 1322383578 257297 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such is the nature of @lang? < 1322383606 960653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ADT = syntax" --pikhq, lying, because he considers strings to have syntax as dictated by BNF which is not part of their structure, and would not consider the syntax of C where each punctuation was swapped with another to be identical < 1322383710 904335 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"'ADT = syntax' --pikhq, lying, because he considers strings to have syntax as dictated by BNF which is not part of their structure, and would not consider the syntax of C where each punctuation was swapped with another to be identical" -- elliott, being dense < 1322383721 13651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main ) int argc * char $ argv ( } printf(&Hello, World!\n&)' return 0' { < 1322383741 118451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: see, now i understand! < 1322383924 425893 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let's say, hypothetically, C were defined in terms of the tree that results from parsing strings in C, rather than being defined in terms of that string. < 1322383944 282194 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that tree *itself* has syntax, as there are rules governing how it can and cannot be structured. < 1322384025 475539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oops < 1322384041 142437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main ) int argc * char $ argv ( } printf)&Hello, World!:n&(' return 0' { < 1322384042 111619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the problem is that i don't believe you. you may consider it syntax in some abstract sense, but definitely not the same way you consider C, Perl, brainfuck's concrete syntax. you might look at some C code which happens to be "represented" in this way (does that even make any sense?) and say it has Proper Syntax, but it'd be because a pretty-printer was transforming that tree into the familiar syntax... I abjectly disbelieve that you would < 1322384042 290454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider wildly differing concrete representations of the same abstract syntax to be the same syntax. and if you think a tree can be presented in a fully abstract form with no concretisation to it, i would like to see a picture. < 1322384081 167330 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322384086 723059 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, does Ook have identical syntax to BF? < 1322384110 84197 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. Maybe I'm using the wrong term here. < 1322384123 976886 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let's call the rules for how the parse tree must be constructed metasyntax. < 1322384128 718140 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang has metasyntax, but not syntax. < 1322384129 61018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322384137 756066 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong indeed, lambdabot < 1322384152 481529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hmmm, how about grammar instead of metasyntax? is that right? < 1322384161 70357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm not sure I consider that a thing, either -- what /is/ "the parse tree" apart from the set of rules that construct it? there's not some weird overly-flexible data structure plus some limitations, just an a priori definition of a tree < 1322384175 871185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ADT is a sort of syntax, sure, but I wouldn't call it rules applying to some underlying thing < 1322384189 671814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but /not/ the sort of syntax you talk about when you talk about identifiers with spaces in them, that's an issue of concrete syntax) < 1322384204 906748 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322384224 334688 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Um, your tree data structure doesn't have many inherent rules. struct tree {struct tree *left; struct tree *right;} < 1322384240 348868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you think about trees in C?) < 1322384248 274665 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, admittedly, bad example. < 1322384258 57735 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far, far too limited of type. < 1322384273 952229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think about trees in Visual Basic. :> < 1322384276 745628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Expr t where ETrue :: Expr Bool; EFalse :: Expr Bool; EInteger :: Integer -> Expr Integer; EIf :: Expr Bool -> Expr a -> Expr a -> Expr a < 1322384279 673741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's stick that in Haskell-ish. Which... Makes this go into severe nitpicking, actually. < 1322384285 31320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note how EIf (EInteger _) _ _ doesn't type. < 1322384291 799888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not because of any additional "rules" layered on top < 1322384309 259389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang is fully dependently-typed, so of course it can express a type of syntax that admits no invalid syntactical constructions < 1322384309 584636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322384315 436850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(invalid semantic constructions, certainly) < 1322384329 274859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that "invalid syntactical constructions" is meaningful here -- it's just an abstraction inversion to get the point across < 1322384335 303167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is defined by its structure < 1322384364 69297 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's about we go with "human language sucks". < 1322384373 149214 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, let's go more general. < 1322384375 905945 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"humans suck". < 1322384384 938461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you take this structure and provide a list of atomic components? < 1322384395 273291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: sentence insufficiently meaningful < 1322384395 452405 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322384423 735647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq not general enough < 1322384424 819100 :derrik_!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322384437 116954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, are there combinations of these components that are invalid? Are there rules that determine if a given structure is invalid? < 1322384450 738785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat previous complaint < 1322384491 747598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would it be better if I spoke to you in math? < 1322384491 926877 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "Everybody and everything sucks" < 1322384500 678353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is more like it < 1322384509 757540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: probably not. but you're assuming too many concepts necessarily imply. just expand everything out. < 1322384555 862313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you said that the language is defined by its structure... what does that mean? < 1322384564 756802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data Expr t where ETrue :: Expr Bool; EFalse :: Expr Bool; EInteger :: Integer -> Expr Integer; EIf :: Expr Bool -> Expr a -> Expr a -> Expr a < 1322384565 124767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : note how EIf (EInteger _) _ _ doesn't type. < 1322384565 303884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and not because of any additional "rules" layered on top < 1322384565 304113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @lang is fully dependently-typed, so of course it can express a type of syntax that admits no invalid syntactical constructions < 1322384649 237743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being dependently-typed means that all syntactical constructors are valid? < 1322384649 769666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1322384653 480589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused. < 1322384670 628132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constructions < 1322384672 527346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi I'm kallisti. < 1322384673 562728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322384674 294113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are. < 1322384679 841162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused, and that. < 1322384698 150684 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is elliott trying to teach GADTs? < 1322384702 703773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1322384704 52790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322384705 630025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get those. < 1322384714 799633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so he claims, indeed! < 1322384717 517545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what elliott is currently saying though. < 1322384724 774546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just buy a computer that can run minecraft < 1322384738 679096 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your computer can't run Minecraft? < 1322384745 993046 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, btw, I should be able to help you test now < 1322384763 530192 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it can't run minecraft, it should be able to run slaves to armok < 1322384780 874281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed not < 1322384786 914194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Heck no. < 1322384794 18348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Same time, same bat-channel. < 1322384810 50180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:02 < elliott> @lang is fully dependently-typed, so of course it can express a type of syntax that admits no invalid syntactical constructions < 1322384813 208159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain this bit? < 1322384823 806411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data Expr t where ETrue :: Expr Bool; EFalse :: Expr Bool; EInteger :: Integer -> Expr Integer; EIf :: Expr Bool -> Expr a -> Expr a -> Expr a < 1322384825 20819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : note how EIf (EInteger _) _ _ doesn't type. < 1322384837 838647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend principle to dependent types, note that all things that would be "invalid syntax" are now things that "don't type" < 1322384851 426985 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If syntax is computable in the dependent typing system of @lang < 1322384854 766495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't put an A where a B is expected, so says a parser, and so says the type-checker if you try and fudge up an invalid tree. < 1322384914 223730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think that really disproves that the syntax /exists/ < 1322384923 177614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not what i was talking about at the time. < 1322384927 274314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322384929 460240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are mixing up threads of "discussion" < 1322384940 631617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was merely disputing that there are "rules" which constitute a syntax, separate from the definition of the tree < 1322384969 476551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (Bat-channel means IP address, for those who speaketh not the tongue. That is, for people who don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Certainly I don't.) < 1322384983 660904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, ADT = syntax? +_+ < 1322385013 753975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I didn't say that, either! < 1322385015 622770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load, chunks, load. < 1322385017 46238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you load. < 1322385034 685104 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a site I can use to set up a poll on, equivalent to sites like quicktopic for instant forum topics? < 1322385038 110522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--and not badly either, though your ice colour is not up to scratch. < 1322385041 748253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely need some handling of alpha. < 1322385058 959376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so you're saying the language is just an ADT? < 1322385073 239047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then syntax is constructed however you lik? < 1322385074 670823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+e < 1322385075 912336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No really, no. < 1322385128 593049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"John is a married bachelor." is grammatically well-formed but expresses a meaning that cannot be true. < 1322385133 503654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a movie about this. < 1322385139 616553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :title: Married Bachelor < 1322385141 355407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And again, mayhaps? < 1322385142 679784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :romantic comedy < 1322385200 533497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, but some of these colours are so strangely averaged. < 1322385234 817221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like a water colour is the next thing I need. < 1322385236 598619 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was apparently a 1941 film. < 1322385248 271762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322385248 629766 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033883/ < 1322385451 950507 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322385452 376739 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322385452 555652 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322385533 15148 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322385984 72064 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322386103 353191 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do I have anymore testing I need to do? < 1322386114 651113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Phantom_Hoover has taken over now he is like 50x better (not actually true). < 1322386157 2264 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322386351 187705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322387698 792225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322389910 31329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover smel sfuny < 1322390565 28071 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B1334C1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322390889 498423 :derrik_!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: all for today < 1322392973 97220 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322393113 539292 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Client Quit < 1322393306 281864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers using pam_ssh. do i dare? < 1322393308 201475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: do I dare. < 1322393329 806414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last release 2009. always a good sign < 1322393967 231924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there? < 1322393971 463424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1322393976 948912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you use xfce right? < 1322393983 892509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ostensibly. Yes. < 1322394002 234129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you happen to know if there is a way to tell xfce to not put an icon for a given partition on the desktop? < 1322394021 9445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have loads of pointless ones due to using lvm < 1322394031 534593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Setting -> Desktop -> Icons? (I heartily suggest setting "icon type" to "none".) < 1322394049 431511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failing that, gconf or dconf or xfconf (real, apparently! I just made it up) or blah. < 1322394055 726920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But desktops are quite an irritating thing, anyway. < 1322394074 799091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "File system" just removes the one for / there. < 1322394085 471606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Icon type: None" removes them all. :-) < 1322394093 139509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could put symlinks in ~/Desktop for the ones you want.) < 1322394096 755690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But really, desktops? In 2011?) < 1322394098 647202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess /home is considered "removable devices" < 1322394117 484390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I mount usb sticks from the terminal anyway < 1322394117 988188 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the last time I've seen my desktop < 1322394129 913785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aur/pam_captcha 1.5-4 < 1322394130 93297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : A Visual text-based CAPTCHA challenge module for PAM/SSH Logins < 1322394132 663815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's... novel. < 1322394150 559943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A question in response! Do you know if I can make sudo-over-ssh ask the /connecting/ ssh for a pubkey auth? < 1322394174 227966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322394186 504505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can use pubkey for sudo? < 1322394195 255085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.: On the server donk connected via ssh from my desktop blob I run "sudo blah". sudo-on-donk does some PAM/ssh magic and ends up calling upon blob's ssh to do the standard public-key authentication. < 1322394203 745931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what I'm asking. < 1322394212 710106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the private key isn't on donk at all, ssh-agent on blob works fine, etc. < 1322394226 357279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be very nice, since the only reason I have a traditional password on servers is for sudo. < 1322394234 669762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe with key forwarding and some pam module? Really I don't know much about pam. < 1322394245 940657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I picked the wrong person! < 1322394254 696920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :afraid so < 1322394259 739715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=595817 < 1322394263 371455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! This looks like it. < 1322394274 53848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This module provides authentication via ssh-agent. It takes 3 arguments, file=/path/to/authorized_keys, debug, and allow_user_owned_authorized_keys_file. If an ssh-agent listening at SSH_AUTH_SOCK can successfully authenticate that it has the secret key for a public key in the specified file, authentication is granted, otherwise authentication files" < 1322394276 121488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! Bravo! < 1322394286 486273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, does this obsolete pam_ssh... < 1322394312 68298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess you need to forward the ssh agent thingy though? < 1322394316 819871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"libpam-ssh-agent allows you to SSH to a machine with agent forwarding, < 1322394316 999265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the agent to authorise PAM transactions, most notably sudo. < 1322394316 999452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upshot of this is that I can go:" < 1322394320 405551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how that works, I always avoided it < 1322394324 145857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See http://pamsshagentauth.sourceforge.net/ < 1322394326 757111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always avoided what? < 1322394373 851495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forwarding agent. Because of the security risks if someone else have root access to said machine. I mean, I may co-own a vps with someone without trusting them with my own private key. < 1322394387 107080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which agent forwarding iirc would open for. < 1322394389 995180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, this does not involve that at all. < 1322394405 362596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If an ssh-agent listening at SSH_AUTH_SOCK can successfully authenticate that it has the secret key for a public key in the specified file, authentication is granted, otherwise authentication files" < 1322394412 261232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it says "agent forwarding" in the text you copied < 1322394416 239904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offering free authentication of a private key =/= offering private key. < 1322394422 911558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you know how public-key cryptography works. < 1322394458 943013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. "On the remote system, if the ssh-agent connection is forwarded, it is also important that the root user is trustworthy, because they can access the agent socket (though not the key)." < 1322394466 814215 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B220.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322394469 82451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssh-agent) < 1322394479 229897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is what I meant. < 1322394487 722103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's moronic, who designed that? < 1322394553 464456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whoever gave root full access independent of file system permissions :P < 1322394591 299552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why that's relevant, it's just a case of the socket exposing things it shouldnt' < 1322394593 816059 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322394593 996064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't < 1322394602 988110 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322394647 322183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, agent forwarding is designed to let you do recursive ssh with the private key locally basically. One use case would be ssh to some gateway kind of system of a LAN and then ssh to the system you want inside I guess < 1322394660 27901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you need that ability < 1322394663 156677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's sooooo common. < 1322394672 110577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, that is what it was designed for. < 1322394675 673930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not your use case < 1322394683 376735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and agent forwarding isn't commonly used. < 1322394706 103516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it'd be more commonly used if it did something useful :) < 1322394712 963242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. < 1322394813 971272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the ssh protocol itself supports doing a pubkey auth after initial login < 1322394869 218153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful < 1322395379 492353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is it normal to iterate SSH key generation until you get a randomart you like?) < 1322395390 449068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1322395396 432434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "randomart"? < 1322395422 952956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the little pictures ssh-keygen draws you. Meant for host key authentication. < 1322395441 784589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that, relatively new stuff < 1322395452 121642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just compare the fingerprint instead < 1322395458 671389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the old style string < 1322395688 56023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm can opengl rotation matrices cause gimbal lock? < 1322395705 104478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why you expect me to know. < 1322395737 833495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, worth a try < 1322396071 250776 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322396114 91141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, can't all matrices? < 1322396114 351152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 13 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322396128 211789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I guess so < 1322396134 980907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... < 1322396144 270021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1322396144 457115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so quaternions is our only hope? < 1322396157 297700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite a lot < 1322396427 299985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is annoying that 2D arrays in C use row-column order. < 1322396435 133956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :column-row would be so much better < 1322396471 160038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, they use whatever order you specify. < 1322396483 496931 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D arrays in C are annoying. < 1322396495 477149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, if you want foo[4][4] = { { a, b, c} ... } < 1322396499 998269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err a,b,c,d < 1322396501 707500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1322396506 738394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you write it as a constant there < 1322396507 853751 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, try passing one to a function. < 1322396509 644537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, you have to specify it in the order you use it :P < 1322396516 518570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Try returning one. < 1322396521 456999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Try returning a 1D array, for that matter. < 1322396540 622620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, problem is I want column-row in memory, but I don't want to have to turn my head when I write it in the source :P < 1322396556 560075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's why god invented code generation. < 1322396557 895111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, god. < 1322396560 759420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We love you. < 1322397571 542709 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322398734 961312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, code generation for a simple task like filling out an projection matrix is silly :P < 1322398814 227334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You call yourself a Unix user. (Do you? Anyway, it's a one-liner.) < 1322398818 618422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Dramatic exit < 1322404455 108668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322405635 840840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322408519 255552 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322408519 477657 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322408519 477809 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322408552 437993 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322408899 658672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322409905 940050 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1322410231 201648 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322413047 555342 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was quiet. Too quiet. < 1322413784 512553 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322414199 345480 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322414237 462220 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322414363 800559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yep < 1322414638 235914 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after reading today's iwc annotation, i predict dmm is currently receiving a flood of emails pointing out that AC doesn't move electrons from source to destination. < 1322415319 788477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and it breaks down for wired networks too when differential signalling is used. < 1322415347 266905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well kind of < 1322415368 443692 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wired networks? < 1322415386 577219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ethernet < 1322415389 302327 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322415411 606662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik ethernet uses differential signalling. < 1322415418 393041 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is. < 1322415429 310387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_signaling < 1322415548 503236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream that an apocalypse by velociraptor robots was coming < 1322415617 340418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess that's easier than getting enough dna for actual cloning < 1322417260 694491 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also had a dream that one of my flashcard decks had 320000 due cards < 1322417439 835060 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRS hell. < 1322417484 563908 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jeeze, I consider it a long day when I've got 100 due) < 1322417501 442996 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have over 20 decks < 1322417533 682138 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i often take a couple hundred new cards a day < 1322417568 389965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When your review methods include "write down the entire sentence", you're going to have time-consuming SRSing. < 1322417587 133070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably, i never move a muscle < 1322417604 229839 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned Japanese, being somewhat hard to ensure you actually notice the distinctions between characters otherwise. < 1322417621 619577 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's srs, a flashcard program? < 1322417630 787723 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I had been going for recognition, I'd pull stupid shit like confusing 義, 議, 儀... < 1322417648 203737 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRS is a class of flashcard study methods. "Spaced repetition system". < 1322417669 876139 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, where the cards have a longer time between repetitions each time you study them and answer correctly. < 1322417672 226793 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i still can't see kanji < 1322417685 221496 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1322417694 505984 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use anki < 1322417700 543653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, figurs. < 1322417703 568323 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figures, even. < 1322417709 576841 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably the most used one. < 1322417726 848217 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, it's not particularly good, lacks tons of very basic things i need all the tiem < 1322417728 738751 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time < 1322417747 868495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like? < 1322417764 65823 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance there's no way to get statistics for all decks at once < 1322417770 81085 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah. < 1322417781 823350 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's really rather annoying. < 1322417797 339540 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why I've got a single largish deck with all my Japanese stuff in it. < 1322417805 412158 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322417834 163799 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i study my different japanese decks in different ways < 1322417866 856123 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just running with sentences. < 1322417890 978529 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working pretty well thus far. < 1322417911 935135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably get a deck from english to japanese sentences. < 1322417917 77917 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the most useful kind of deck < 1322418001 527460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really? I at least find it insanely useful doing the fairly simple Japanese-> (Reading, dictionary lookup of things unknown, translation if available), and making sure I can read, write, and understand the sentence in question. < 1322418039 37394 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322418053 288170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that i have two decks for < 1322418099 553022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't make my japanese decks) < 1322418121 865393 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not particularly focused on production. Y'know, I'd genuinely prefer to say "train station where?" and understand the response, rather than say "Excuse me, but could you tell me how I could find the train station" and be at a complete loss when someone answers. :P < 1322418138 499030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1322418155 741915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, do you often visit Japan? < 1322418163 865668 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1322418174 470106 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fact, I have never been. < 1322418181 659425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use your Japanese knowledge for then? < 1322418183 813936 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when watching anime, production is possibly even less useful < 1322418190 294082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322418196 965153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I guess that is a possible use < 1322418198 822282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does knowledge need to be used for somethign < 1322418200 816379 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mostly just Japanese media, ATM. < 1322418201 501891 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1322418222 532221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322418229 482782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it doesn't < 1322418231 149851 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, my obsession with Japanese only started because "Hmm. I need to take a foreign language class in high school. Japanese doesn't sound boring. Let's do that." < 1322418240 92725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322418256 497877 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after that, I've just been doing it because I like learning the language. < 1322418257 167787 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically flipped a coin between japanese and chinese < 1322418291 523859 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322418291 952391 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322418292 145631 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322418434 566113 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I chose my language learning based on utility, I'd probably be learning ASL. Whiiiich it would actually behoove me to learn, TBH. < 1322418471 346274 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322418485 665123 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be awesome < 1322418515 378927 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i would like to learn both the finnish and the american version, dunno how much they differ < 1322418528 14600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming i guessed your acronym right < 1322418531 94464 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rarely do < 1322418539 150956 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :American Sign Language? < 1322418544 604825 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322418560 624904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking it up, seems Finnish Sign Language is in a different language family entirely. < 1322418562 475040 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my other guess was that there's a language called age sex location < 1322418764 920753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322418790 862559 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-37.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322418807 546033 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if i should remove this one deck... or can kau as in buy also be used as the kanji for winning? < 1322418838 798079 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. I am unaware of that having those semantics. < 1322418855 540394 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-47.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322418884 610002 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who bought the game?" < 1322418913 610130 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only sensible semantics I'm aware of. < 1322418950 185699 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple other instances here where they've obviously just used something with the same pronunciation < 1322418979 407552 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which premade deck are you using, anyways? < 1322418993 338746 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how to ttell the difference between japanese something something < 1322418995 687182 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tell < 1322419016 641119 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use it to learn readings for kanji < 1322419144 171883 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also japanese coreplus and some listening comprehension decks and heisig's kanji deck and then another vocab deck, i love downloading decks. < 1322419310 353744 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322419366 904132 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322419401 699860 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) walks into a bar < 1322419413 524791 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barman says, "Sorry, we don't cater to functions here" < 1322419495 702021 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that the punchline? < 1322419501 992242 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322419555 103452 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322419556 277320 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1322419616 840841 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sine of x, cos of x, and e^x go to a party < 1322419644 170102 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sine of x and cos of x both go and have a good time < 1322419649 869879 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But e^x sits in the corner < 1322419666 82111 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody goes and talks to him, asks him why he's not joining in < 1322419704 877463 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^x says, "Sorry, but whenever I try to integrate, I end up with myself" < 1322419804 932358 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sine and cos aren't much better at that stuff < 1322419830 299422 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a small party < 1322419901 485883 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, good one < 1322419958 479178 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would tell you my last joke, but this IRC channel is too small to contain it < 1322419959 486074 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all n, are there n functions which derive into each other? are they unique? < 1322419986 818855 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All polynomials form an infinite chain of derivatives going upwards < 1322420037 500191 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they form infinitely many such chains, which are not disjoint < 1322420060 486524 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And end with 0 < 1322420086 504607 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322420090 319201 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that doesn't really answer the question < 1322420125 919586 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't officially learnt about integration yet < 1322420149 202220 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow i doubt they'll teach you the answer to my question < 1322420164 293801 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you start your studies with advanced real analysis < 1322420177 341208 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I highly doubt that < 1322420204 69885 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 1, exponential, for 2, hyperbolic sine, for 4, sine. what else? < 1322420739 658217 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Get out of my way - or I'll differentiate you till you're zero!" "Try it - I'm e to the x..." "Too bad... I'm d/dy." < 1322421917 840810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is amused < 1322422451 852157 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you have the copyright to that joke < 1322422461 845125 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No. < 1322422478 557269 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone does < 1322422866 442325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322422923 326813 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let D : C^C \to C^C (let's say C_\infty functions only) be the differentiation operator, does it have a unique set of n periodic points of period n for all n? < 1322422931 841550 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :use your memory on that when you return < 1322422988 512800 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant to say C_\infty, although i don't recall whether it's a subscript or a superscript... not very good at recalling notaiton < 1322422990 580691 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*notation < 1322423054 690454 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i sent a text to my colleague and he solved it in 2 minutes, ignore that. < 1322423089 570537 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for analytic functions at least, it's kind of trivial for them but it's close enough a result in spirit < 1322423327 770 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322426068 802878 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322426069 358793 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322426069 537674 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322426200 570854 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read my D&D game recording the end of what I wrote so far, tell me what would you do next if you are in that situation? < 1322426273 208861 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i haven't read this but i would use magic < 1322426373 585913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to use magic for everything? < 1322426387 460953 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might eventually run out of magic. < 1322426405 959833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or be prevented from using magic in some other way such as antimagic fields < 1322426512 913527 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd find a way < 1322426518 297728 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use magic to get more magic < 1322426533 209324 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use THE POWER OF CHARISMA < 1322426556 757954 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are not even being specific. < 1322426573 582440 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would have to read it to figure out better, isn't it? < 1322426587 210202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1322426605 640260 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B1334C1.dip.t-dialin.net PART :#esoteric < 1322426628 504797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my own plans too but I won't tell you what it is yet < 1322427623 63791 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322427790 752122 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear d&d has dragons. < 1322427809 886837 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are basically dinosaurs that breathe fire < 1322427818 401510 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it has dragons. But currently in the game I was playing in, no dragons have been found yet < 1322427818 681509 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? < 1322427827 704953 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322427833 687440 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some dragons are ice dragons instead of fire < 1322427836 701343 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you say magic, i will punch d&d. < 1322427874 282120 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/Fire.htm < 1322427949 215414 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the author is retarded < 1322427957 190675 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*religious < 1322429153 715181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: D&D dragons are much more intelligent than dinosaurs, or really anything that is currently known to ever have existed < 1322429153 993037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322429167 530019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can do a bunch of bizarre things without magic, and magic just makes them even stronger < 1322429169 53801 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :more intelligent than humans? < 1322429173 889080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily < 1322429180 891346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes them kind-of hard to roleplay/DM < 1322429181 70565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :P_p < 1322429191 651014 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322429220 679699 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :p_P < 1322429241 104315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott I didn't delete "why testing is good" and the other one, Keymaker did < 1322429241 481708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322429375 842060 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: < 1322429430 144627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what's your game < 1322429438 218461 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322429458 9071 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1322429467 328031 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really hi. < 1322429487 280562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429490 778471 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429495 460409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429500 138915 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429503 314056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429504 375867 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1322429511 449040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1322429513 235550 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1322429516 232064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1322429520 550108 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1322429524 375375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1322429525 370633 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1322429530 376197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1322429531 37993 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1322429537 191262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko < 1322429538 31003 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko < 1322429540 160620 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- < 1322429553 921289 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have to kill everyone on this channel < 1322429567 338004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I was actually counting that time, was determined not to lose again < 1322429575 737483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm watching office < 1322429586 291063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose copy-paste would help get it perfect, but what would be the fun in that?) < 1322429666 832045 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1322429673 981914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1322429680 850559 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429681 648859 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1322429683 6240 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1322429684 196513 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1322429685 503541 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1322429687 15139 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1322429688 343092 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1322429689 990189 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1322429691 826792 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1322429693 652048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1322429713 431428 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1322429713 770555 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1322429714 434101 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1322429715 261639 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1322429716 143297 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1322429717 255717 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1322429718 588952 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1322429720 109866 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1322429721 611765 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1322429723 244241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1322429750 690871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (o)(~(ko)*:S~:^):^ < 1322429750 869814 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okookokookokokookokokokookokokokokookokokokokokookokokokokokokookokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokookokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoo ...too much output! < 1322429757 880168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (o)(~(ko)*:S( )S~:^):^ < 1322429758 59051 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokok ...too much output! < 1322429769 457743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (o )S(o)(~(ko)*:S( )S~:^):^ < 1322429769 659791 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokok ...too much output! < 1322429794 15433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, /so tempted/ to submit it to anagolf… < 1322429802 172284 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322429834 958140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there an anagolf which is tested manually and where you have to implement a specific algorithm < 1322429837 627340 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder < 1322429846 173997 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want that quicksort in golfscript < 1322429878 801008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322429894 829269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I never did end up figuring out how to automatically mark a question "implement a mergesort algo that splits the list into three lists and then sorts them individually and merges them" < 1322429923 359890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ask for mergesort specific data to be printed < 1322429931 868813 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: this dragons guy is the strangest ever. he believes in God making life and man making life and Jesus returning and has no understnading of modern warfare. where do such people live? < 1322429934 508945 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the sorted versions of halves of the lsit < 1322429935 517144 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :list < 1322429954 25347 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: obviously america < 1322429985 250685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but I wasn't allowed to modify the question < 1322430013 754758 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you could just look at what functions are called and with what arguments < 1322430018 473332 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah, obviously. but elsewhere too? < 1322430030 693283 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at runtime < 1322430044 688264 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: maybe. crazy people out there < 1322430046 813560 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and out here < 1322430076 73613 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does he not have an understanding of modern warfare? i mean sure that was just ridiculous but i assume you have a better argument < 1322430101 640751 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322430124 959861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: modern warfare doesn't involve dragons, therefore it sucks < 1322430142 89436 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing about making centaurs for cavalry < 1322430154 771354 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fairy machine gun people < 1322430155 768996 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322430159 962112 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1322430189 554553 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he described a predator drone that nullifies the main advantage of a predator drone: that no one dies when it's shot down < 1322430240 638552 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could just not give it equal rights, sorta like a modern nigger. < 1322430276 829901 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ woman / child / idiot < 1322430281 911612 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true. we could throw out modern ethics and solve that problem easily eh < 1322430330 382759 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern ethics = living things are all equal? < 1322430333 745685 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322430340 58804 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one gives a fuck if you rape a fish < 1322430344 167209 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one < 1322430389 134334 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean any more than if you rape a chair, people might think there's something wrong with you of course < 1322430433 356765 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess if you give it a human brain, which seems like something centaur might have... < 1322430446 291466 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking more like horse brain but the great looks of a human < 1322430632 728807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My game is http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1322430654 98688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DVI file is also in that directory and so is the include file with macros for D&D 3.5e recording < 1322430655 261915 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322430860 545660 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.92 QUIT :Quit: left < 1322430938 583121 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : no one gives a fuck if you rape a fish < 1322430953 731443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are certain negative connotations of sleeping with the fishes. < 1322431015 592326 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322431036 540824 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::SDSDSDSDSDSDSDSD < 1322431038 877473 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good'n < 1322431079 300582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I stole it from the Simpsons' good era. < 1322431512 155344 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are not being very original toda < 1322431512 978799 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1322431952 771274 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322431964 143796 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : people are not being very original toda < 1322431982 464466 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I applied the joke in an original way? < 1322432007 500817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322432115 947061 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1322432166 822888 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1322433092 598322 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433092 777528 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322433092 777653 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433177 733543 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322433575 639449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322433692 720222 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433693 543131 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433693 769555 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433694 633683 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433694 812552 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433698 331824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433701 360861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322433737 907963 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@72.232.233.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433740 235278 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@72.232.233.42 QUIT :Changing host < 1322433740 414116 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433743 281087 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433744 963818 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433761 178959 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322433785 495691 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1322434013 729149 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322434857 781823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc2-sgyl21-0-0-cust501.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322434861 881658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc2-sgyl21-0-0-cust501.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1322434862 60682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322435228 978033 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaos_Bourbakis < 1322435238 639847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a good name, wasted. < 1322435273 271432 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322435285 770239 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume this is a reference to the other bourbakis, but i still don't get it < 1322435335 678141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :His name is a stone's throw away from "Nicolas Bourbaki" and he goes into image processing. < 1322435399 836603 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a famous singer whose name has hamming distance 1 from mine, and another singer with the same name as my dad < 1322435411 138184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're both just fucking around and doing nothing useful < 1322435482 393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A famous Finnish singer? < 1322435538 398018 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've sold a gold album in US so basically the most famous group in finland < 1322435543 955855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :globally < 1322435566 349912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not Lordi, is it? < 1322435579 59326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322435579 676181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322435591 491835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lordi is the best thing about Finland. < 1322435603 215319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like Sweden, Sweden is irrecoverably terrible. < 1322435618 935768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322435619 983448 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322435648 100502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweden and finland both have a lot of good metal bands < 1322435648 450170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your name is one character away from "Ville Valo"? < 1322435657 139801 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit of a leap < 1322435680 881852 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've told this channel my name like 5 times < 1322435709 136309 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not listening at any of them. < 1322435736 374111 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i assume you haven't read my master's thesis either < 1322435744 445612 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of rude. < 1322435751 784936 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read everything you ever published < 1322435807 436669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding a list of Finnish names and listing those with a hamming distance of 1 from that is too much like hard work. < 1322435819 90888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it turns out W|A does it, which is a bit of a stretch. < 1322435822 576820 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could look up common surnames < 1322435831 656636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I'll read your master's thesis. < 1322435859 323494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1322435870 485044 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems my surname is #21 < 1322435927 172559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where is your master's thesis.) < 1322435956 63866 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=master's%20thesis%20ville%20salo&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftucs.fi%3A8080%2Fpublications%2Fattachment.php%3Ffname%3DtSalo11a.full.pdf&ei=SsXSTq2uDcbc4QS4_-0_&usg=AFQjCNGKsoCtnZGHqyuEfAFcc89GdOpBHw < 1322435964 41610 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice link. < 1322435977 137601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even work :DSAfd < 1322435991 865293 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait totally does < 1322436086 855411 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :please disregard the typo in the abstract < 1322436111 605836 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sent those for printing and then i'm like hmm did i ever get to writing an abstract.... < 1322436437 41731 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322436470 870657 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can read our survey on picture-walking automata for a more complete treatment of picture-walking automata < 1322436480 895511 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about picture-walking automata < 1322436759 348549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322437491 108578 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322438888 126922 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322439302 990671 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322439369 524406 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-160-168.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322439394 455437 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322440401 827071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322440443 182726 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upeano spacedoot. < 1322440480 735225 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, my notifier hasn't gone off, therefore I assume you're lying < 1322440498 304267 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322440577 28333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your loss < 1322440590 569330 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322440593 461520 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322440609 393509 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lordi \m/ < 1322440611 76587 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1322440617 386260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I guess you'll just never know how AWESOME this PUMPKINS are. < 1322440634 980808 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the video for blood red sandman gave me the boots: \m/ \m/ < 1322440635 170944 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                             `\o/´ < 1322440635 350023 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                               | < 1322440635 350203 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                              /'¯|_) < 1322440635 350308 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                            (_| < 1322440638 117189 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, or, you may in fact be delayed in seeing the latest updates < 1322440649 466832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no I've seen that < 1322440651 729422 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we saw pumpkins recently, but that was a while ago < 1322440659 408273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE MORE PUMPKINS < 1322440660 97126 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pumpkins update < 1322441018 443185 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322441031 194407 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-37.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322441261 574701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm cornbread. < 1322441262 393392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322441263 392300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1322441264 387616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1322441287 787654 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322441472 886079 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322441473 342085 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322441473 520990 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322441746 595813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made so that some Haskell functions can have Show; it works you can type maybe (False, True) (join (,)) in GHCi and it tells you the output Nothing -> (False, True) Just False -> (False, False) Just True -> (True, True) < 1322441761 736375 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the type is ambiguous it assumes you mean () < 1322441821 972351 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322441977 705760 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ < 1322442096 725510 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322442133 592166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/a/5/e/a5e707d8d73a8dc420acfb9cb8794622.png < 1322442148 557859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone explain this notation? it's a "family of sets" < 1322442162 75402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, if I understand correctly, is a multiset of sets. < 1322442443 625941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand correctly it's saying that the subsets are basically indexed by an integer or something? < 1322442541 918506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A choice function is a function f, defined on a collection X of nonempty sets, such that for every set s in X, f(s) is an element of s. < 1322442548 777694 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way i read it, there are some sets S for every i in set I, but that's somewhat loose and probably dodgy as an interpretation. Is there any context that would help? < 1322442555 566629 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B220.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322442559 249017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any set X of nonempty sets, there exists a choice function f defined on X. < 1322442566 263139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay... axiom of choice now makes sense. < 1322442614 224439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice < 1322442624 299441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what the subscript i is for now. < 1322442684 59113 :Betawolf!~betawolf@li151-44.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cool < 1322442954 741188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say that restricts the sets to being countable, but I guess "I" could be real numbers here so not necessarily. also the mapping function I -> S is not necessarily bijective I think. < 1322442976 830411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indexed_family < 1322443295 533682 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322444273 861 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322444322 520423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = True in not x || x < 1322444336 906879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....no lambdabot? < 1322444341 969252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1322444396 206282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let x = True in not x && x < 1322444397 827944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1322444409 583674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell: not a fan of intuitionism. < 1322444416 806438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha ha ha) < 1322444466 321798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course Maybe Bool gives you a three-valued logic, in which you could probably say that not x || x is unknown (aka Nothing in this construction) < 1322444491 851774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, that not x || x /can/ be unknown, depending on x. < 1322444608 910227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a related note < 1322444613 718109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lonelynerdsinfedoras.tumblr.com/ needs more Gregor < 1322444674 395696 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, intuitionism? < 1322444708 700286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a kind of mathematical constructivism < 1322444716 144716 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would the result of not True && True be in intuitionism? < 1322444745 575252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_logic < 1322444802 183728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still learning so does not have an answer yet :P < 1322444944 389870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think not True && True is False < 1322444957 684871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not p && p cannot in general be proven (???) < 1322445100 253377 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok quick question, what would be a good scheme standard to implement? < 1322445124 606466 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does R7RS exist? < 1322445137 227507 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard bad things about R6RS < 1322445138 360364 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe so < 1322445141 356715 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait uh < 1322445166 874443 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got its first draft < 1322445179 142247 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i have heard bad things about versions after R5RS < 1322445246 221751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard bad things about people who hold strong opinions about scheme standards. < 1322445286 991854 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The R6RS standard has caused controversy because it is seen to have departed from the minimalist philosophy." < 1322445334 783845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not necessarily a bad thing. But I don't know anything about R6RS < 1322445380 424620 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322445412 90637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322445677 945303 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322445703 792094 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322446046 803003 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322446364 516607 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i just found a weird bug in wla-dx < 1322446382 274219 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you attempt to include a completely empty file, it crashes < 1322446386 422828 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a newline, it's happy < 1322446452 987338 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: that doesn't sound too weird. < 1322446485 683448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably just overlooked the possibility of the empty file or something? < 1322446495 593903 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1322446498 106666 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322446533 61192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about files that contain characters but no trailing newline? < 1322446552 303013 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :no crash < 1322446564 624153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. yeah that's weird. < 1322448307 144921 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I'm pondering this one problem. Implement a binary semaphore. The only atomic operation you're allowed is a swap operation: swap(x,y) atomically swaps the values of *x and *y. < 1322448356 484546 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322448416 750408 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrarily many threads could be running at any time. They can sleep, they can revive each other, and they can interact with each other's memories. < 1322448448 448746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :memories? < 1322448462 19193 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. They use shared memory. < 1322448477 127667 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, was thinking of the other definition of memory < 1322448492 820403 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might require Feather to implement? < 1322448497 200452 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1322448528 971771 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not thinking too clearly right now < 1322448566 105262 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :My original thought was for the semaphore to be represented with a variable. The variable contains 0 when the semaphore is available, and 1 when it's unavailable. To try to procure the semaphore, a thread prepares a variable containing the number 1, and atomically swaps it with the semaphore variable. < 1322448702 541738 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the thread gets a 0 from this swap, it successfully got the semaphore. If it gets a 1 from the swap, it did not. < 1322448709 721553 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the problem with that, unless you have a rogue threat deliberately messing with other threads? < 1322448725 785002 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thread < 1322448733 777293 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with that is that there's no way to block on a semaphore. If you want to procure the semaphore, and it's unavailable, you have to busy loop. < 1322448809 730744 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to give out the semaphore in fifo order? < 1322448873 52423 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well, I want to give it out in *some* order. If thread A procures a semaphore, then thread B tries to procure it, then thread A vacates it, then it should somehow wind up in B's possession. < 1322448876 310971 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably implement a queue with atomic swaps < 1322448896 149751 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322448900 712295 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've managed to create a queue that goes in the wrong direction. Each thread has a pointer to the thread before it in line. < 1322448901 258154 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have a thread notification mechanism; how do you even do that? < 1322448936 840839 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, once you're done with a semaphore, what you need to do is give it to the thread *after* you in line. < 1322448952 85396 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well, they have shared memory. To talk to a sleeping process, you change its variables and wake it up. < 1322448963 508823 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so you do assume a notification mechanism. < 1322448979 534914 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then, you should turn your queue the right way round, I guess. < 1322448980 34277 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322448998 456487 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, quite. < 1322449029 982939 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the queue is built is... more or less the same as my original thought above. To try to procure the semaphore, you swap your own thread ID into the semaphore variable. < 1322449031 10477 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322449044 363422 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you get a 0, meaning the semaphore is yours, or you get the ID of the guy before you in line. < 1322449110 73132 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you could do is have each thread reserve a location in its memory, then write the memory address to the semaphore. The next thread writes its address to that address. < 1322449111 344233 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322449131 54613 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, writes its thread-id to that address. < 1322449167 500420 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if two threads both read the semaphore variable at the same time, and then both write in their addresses at the same time? < 1322449202 826899 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess right after you swap, you can give guy-before-you your thread ID. But what if guy-before-you tries to use your thread ID right before you give it to him... < 1322449210 733594 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you'd need a small busy-loop while each thread atomically acquires its place in the queue. < 1322449243 806716 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any way around that. < 1322449313 1105 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose that the zero address is invalid. Then a thread can lock the semaphore by swapping it with zero, add itself to the queue, and swap its memory address to the semaphore. < 1322449428 39514 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Suppose that two threads try to swap zero into the semaphore at the same time. < 1322449476 512750 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the threads will get a zero out. This means it can't proceed, so it has to sleep. Who wakes it up? < 1322449496 259465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: "queue that goes in the wrong direction" like a stack? :> < 1322449519 624480 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that... yeah, a lot like a stack! < 1322449538 312420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh heh heh heh < 1322449553 647647 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: it busy-loops for the minuscule amount of time it takes for the other thread to do two atomic swaps. < 1322449565 219377 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :umad? < 1322449573 988182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mad < 1322449579 684484 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mad. < 1322449600 767019 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess busy looping may be fine if the thread it's waiting on is guaranteed to finish quickly. < 1322449616 130667 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inelegant but fine. < 1322449677 18884 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably theoretically impossible to do this with your primitives and no busy waiting < 1322449684 332826 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, isn't a binary semaphore only two-valued? < 1322449743 28565 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :A binary semaphore is what we're implementing; that doesn't mean we have to implement it on top of a Boolean variable. < 1322449759 456939 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder if it is theoretically impossible. If it is, I ought to prove it. < 1322449767 795984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION briefly imagines an "intuitionistic semaphore" < 1322450283 868299 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322451109 483275 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322452158 563692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322452333 150488 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322453128 472358 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322454329 329336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI FRIENDS < 1322454339 244976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> a -> a < 1322454339 923398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexSpec Color3 :: a -> a -> a -> Color3 a < 1322454340 102325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexSpec Normal3 :: a -> a -> a -> Normal3 a < 1322454340 281278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexSpec TexCoord3 :: a -> a -> a -> TexCoord3 a < 1322455208 710673 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322455592 74512 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322456529 824067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322456625 279884 :kallisti!~eris@h125.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322456625 458763 :kallisti!~eris@h125.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322456625 458909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322456722 169495 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322457495 898458 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322457496 115190 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322457496 115291 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322457548 195174 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322457833 523101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwww yeah < 1322457842 861845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :two monitors. so I can watch starcraft II games and get shit done < 1322457968 798499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322458346 213943 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322458392 980335 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1322459507 56900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can there be barrier monad transformer? < 1322460043 134378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure I understand barrier monads < 1322460064 860258 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to do it; maybe this way I trying can work. < 1322460166 76171 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322460287 636335 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: let D : C^C \to C^C (let's say C_\infty functions only) be the differentiation operator, does it have a unique set of n periodic points of period n for all n? < 1322460318 539426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh help English formatting < 1322460326 464771 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a unique subspace of dimension n of periodic points of period | n < 1322460328 220161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm supposed to format this as like... < 1322460331 372286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :name, title < 1322460337 731868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the title is like... three parts. < 1322460353 563123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph.D., Dean, School of Computing and Software Engineering < 1322460355 532220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that. < 1322460369 430742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I use semicolons? halp < 1322460375 702518 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :generated by e^(m*2pi*ix/n) for m=0,...,n-1. < 1322460378 831503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do semicolons exist? < 1322460388 231911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you explain a barrier monad? < 1322460396 482728 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oklopol see logs < 1322460397 207571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322460402 30249 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semicolons exist but I don't know what context the document is < 1322460448 75433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe like... < 1322460452 532479 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: er, scratch the formula, thinking too fast < 1322460462 294513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name, Ph.D.; Dean, School of Computing and Software Engineering < 1322460469 243581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the semicolon looks weird next to that . < 1322460470 332977 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the 2pi, i think < 1322460477 846467 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322460496 813214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's e^(phi*x) where phi^n = 1, of course < 1322460505 214966 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK. data Barrier f b t = Unit t | Barrier f (b -> Barrier f b t); It means, there is a front type and a back type. The "yield" operation yields a front value and something else make a back value to continue. Similar to how generator functions in JavaScript are, a bit < 1322460505 393841 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which there are n solutions. < 1322460540 614158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does Unit fit into this? < 1322460558 666654 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unit is the "return" operation: return = Unit; < 1322460566 383172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322460613 495208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is also functor and applicative; all monads are supposed to be also functor and applicative. < 1322460625 457321 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the case n=4 gives e^x, e^(-x), e^(ix) and e^(-ix), and the last two can be rearranged as (e^(ix)+e^(-ix))/2 and (e^(ix)-e^(-ix))/(2i), which you may recognize. < 1322460631 935735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, so then the monadic function is the second field there. (b -> Barrier f b t) < 1322460643 291793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oklopol etc. < 1322460643 977736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322460661 35887 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is actually a third constructor Fail String which is the "fail" operation and is also used for the Alternative instance < 1322460702 10789 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322460715 494649 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does >>= work? is there a >>=? < 1322460741 124354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there just a f :: Barrier f b t -> Barrier f b t ? < 1322460752 155420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/f/func/ < 1322460758 932432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to differentiate it from the front type) < 1322460759 939930 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is a >>= it is: Unit x >>= f = f x; Fail x >>= f = Fail x; Barrier a c >>= f = Barrier a $ c >=> f; < 1322460777 592641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322460812 256477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the front value is... always the same? < 1322460816 717316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when binding/\ < 1322460818 810860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returning./ < 1322460850 805089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Do you know the "yield" command in Javascript? The "yield" command here is similar thing (which is the reason why it is called "yield"). < 1322460862 936244 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yield = flip Barrier Unit; < 1322460865 411452 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's this Barrier thing? < 1322460881 733781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1322460890 369354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one question asker allowed. :P < 1322460895 11048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT REPEAT QUESTIONS < 1322460898 46083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decrees. < 1322460933 642568 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: See above; I specified the definitions < 1322460972 212647 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually i sent a text to my colleague and he solved it in 2 minutes, ignore that. < 1322460975 447779 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO LATE < 1322461044 940052 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322461106 569264 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322461152 259103 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1322461498 498136 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322461631 428947 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a system which has "truth values" for propositions is usually non-intuitionistic, because intuitionistic logic does not track truth but (constructive) provability. < 1322461679 644357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right/ < 1322461694 778049 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be possible, of course, to model "justified" or "provable" with boolean values, but then it would be quite clear that two values would not suffice. < 1322461699 484629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a sort of truth-valued logic.. < 1322461727 17934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to make classical logic in Haskell, too, by making a class of law of excluded middle. < 1322461767 726915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand correctly, it's a three-valued logic? or maybe doesn't work like that and exists only as symbolic transformations.. ? < 1322461767 943219 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover, it's not impossible to prove x || not x if we already know that x is either provable or disprovable < 1322461778 791148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: yes, I understand that. < 1322461785 518497 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall there's a proof that no number of truth values suffices for intuitionistic logic < 1322461794 596475 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be no finite number < 1322461797 17754 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay. < 1322461800 251944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1322461817 124376 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: basically, intuitionistic logic is defined by those symbolic transformations < 1322461827 625351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, yes I understand now. < 1322461837 797623 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're trying to do is to give a "semantics" for those symbolic transformations < 1322461852 82826 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think it can be done by three-valued logic, but I'm not sure < 1322461852 568636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically implication, though it acts as a symbolic transformation. < 1322461875 40790 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so, if I were to do it in Haskell, would I require Integer or something, or is it not so straightforward? < 1322461875 681446 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitionistic logic is the same as function types of Haskell (due to Curry-Howard). < 1322461878 471564 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a recursive data type? < 1322461887 627353 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what? < 1322461897 729881 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a whole lot of "rules" that describe transformations which are allowed in intuitionistic logic because they're considered "constructive" < 1322461907 134414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: zzo38: I was about to say function type is basically implication due to Curry-Howard. < 1322461917 733603 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, intuitionistic logic satisfiability is PSPACE complete, while any finite truth value operators can have it checked in NP. that's not a proof though since it's still not proved that NP /= PSPACE < 1322461923 831914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite understand Curry-Howard < 1322461948 279187 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p ||q) && not p => q is _not_ one of the allowed transformations, whereas (p => q) && p => q is. < 1322461989 757765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: okay so basically types in programs are like mathematical formula, and the program that the type describes is a proof of that formula. < 1322462018 168164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so when you write the type a -> b you're actually talking about a logical implication. < 1322462074 411531 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I write a -> b? < 1322462081 138628 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I saw something about this) < 1322462086 532250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1322462110 278366 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that there's no way to write a -> b (without cheating) means a -> b cannot be proved, or something? < 1322462122 606915 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i guess that you could use kripke models as your representation for intuitionistic logic. i recall playing around with those. < 1322462130 168932 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kripke models? < 1322462149 884458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well there's no proof of -> in intuitionistic logic because it's basically the axiom of intuistionistic logic. < 1322462241 408957 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kripke_semantics#Semantics_of_intuitionistic_logic seems quite unreadable. < 1322462297 883680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some proofs are simple: doubleNot = flip id; contrapositive = flip (.); deMorgan x = either (fst x) (snd x); < 1322462299 632359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the notation anyway. < 1322462356 753985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :identity = id < 1322462358 973888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew. < 1322462362 108361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wipes brow. < 1322462408 96105 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (.) < 1322462409 229337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b < 1322462410 853884 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm lazy < 1322462422 430985 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wrong . < 1322462427 855565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (Prelude..) < 1322462428 607532 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (Prelude..) < 1322462428 786481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a. (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c < 1322462429 699107 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a. (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c < 1322462434 287392 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you want to show that p || not p is not provable in intuitionistic logic, by finding a kripke model in which it's not true in all frames. < 1322462461 925316 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, c is Zero (an uninhabited type) < 1322462476 367816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the type for not in Haskell? < 1322462497 188455 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip id < 1322462498 241091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> (a -> b) -> b < 1322462519 949661 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let frame 1 be one in which p is false, and frame 2 be one in which p is true. that satisfies the condition. but then not p is false in frame 1 because p is true in a later frame. and p || not p is false in frame 1 because both p and not p are false there. < 1322462565 690102 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322462650 293215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see type Not a = a -> b < 1322462666 106565 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: b should be Void < 1322462668 207546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not :: Not a < 1322462671 507854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not = undefined ????? < 1322462672 872982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322462690 184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322462691 94093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322462706 939777 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Void is the representation of false. < 1322462718 783379 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called the uninhabited type Zero and defined as: data Zero; type Not x = x -> Zero; < 1322462719 60841 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or _|_ < 1322462777 215214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay, but then what's the proof? < 1322462781 10705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note you could represent natural numbers by using Zero as number zero and Maybe as successor. If there is such a thing as types that are only capable of holding bijective functions, you could use that to prove equality of natural numbers. < 1322462812 387824 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: proof of what? < 1322462817 536666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: negation < 1322462823 81644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it given? < 1322462848 580199 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: to proven negation of x, you construct a contradiction from x. i.e. you construct an element of Not x. < 1322462852 557141 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prove < 1322462888 377019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh okay. so in Haskell data types with constructors are automatically proven, basically. < 1322462913 42071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're made of things that are proven (??) < 1322462917 780869 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're automatically proven if you can find the arguments to their constructors... < 1322462926 73558 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322462942 679298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructivism wheeeeee < 1322462945 379390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example: Not Zero proven by the function id < 1322462981 281486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prove that booleans are true." "okay here you go I made them" < 1322462996 474899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are true/exist/ < 1322463066 724620 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but not p && p cannot in general be proven (???) <-- it can be disproven. < 1322463106 543209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const (const True) < 1322463107 243265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b b1. b1 -> b -> Bool < 1322463108 654440 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course with that one in particular, that's a little circular semantically < 1322463132 809238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t asTypeOf (const True) < 1322463133 489205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (b -> Bool) -> b -> Bool < 1322463134 502969 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not (Not p, p) < 1322463134 996722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (a, b) = a b < 1322463147 881315 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :explosion :: (p, Not p) -> q; explosion (x, y) = contradiction $ y x; where contradiction :: forall t. Zero -> t; < 1322463154 589588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const (asTypeOf True) < 1322463155 91764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. b -> Bool -> Bool < 1322463159 80421 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: @djinn is an intuitionistic prover < 1322463174 629410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Void < 1322463174 808327 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322463177 765095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn f :: Void < 1322463177 943999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot parse command < 1322463183 817153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> Void < 1322463183 996000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322463188 916370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Void not a thing? < 1322463216 609859 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Void is an uninhabited type. you cannot actually construct it, it's a representation of a contradiction. < 1322463224 124091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... right. < 1322463235 572280 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Void -> a < 1322463236 43489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = void < 1322463242 457185 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-env < 1322463242 998874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data () = () < 1322463243 178001 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Either a b = Left a | Right b < 1322463243 178177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a < 1322463243 178286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bool = False | True < 1322463243 178393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void < 1322463245 43418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Not x = x -> Void < 1322463247 52103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1322463248 943747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool < 1322463269 386954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, so then Not Void is the only valid type for a in data Not a = Not (a -> Void)? < 1322463270 47781 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not sure where that void is defined. < 1322463292 766251 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: recursive types are not allowed in this context. < 1322463299 89405 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hm sorry < 1322463300 826866 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1322463342 333948 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not Void < 1322463342 952073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a < 1322463354 935916 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = Void < 1322463380 169298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not Bool < 1322463380 348169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322463385 186152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322463405 537094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets it, I think. < 1322463485 888065 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Bool definition is somewhat unrelated to the intuitionistic truth values < 1322463493 502754 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are Void and Not Void, really < 1322463496 696715 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1322463515 380581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool is a sum type of... unit types? < 1322463567 499590 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. @djinn's main purpose is to construct haskell functions with prescribed types, so the intuitionistic part is sort of just underlying. < 1322463682 63982 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> b -> a < 1322463682 671447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a _ = a < 1322463718 262898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Either a b -> (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> c < 1322463718 827937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = < 1322463719 6759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : case a of < 1322463719 6958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Left d -> b d < 1322463719 7066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Right e -> c e < 1322463752 469232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, are primitive types kind of just... unproven? < 1322463763 61121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Int#, State#, etc. < 1322463809 169197 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : @djinn doesn't deal with those, i think. it's not _really_ haskell, but a fragment without nontermination and without recursive types. < 1322463831 869102 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well, the Haskell Report does define Int as a huge number of constructors right? < 1322463836 499757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that. < 1322463840 621934 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Either a b mean in the context of intuitionistic logic? < 1322463844 583305 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can define new nonrecursive types. < 1322463849 101290 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or < 1322463855 330069 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a or b < 1322463860 595617 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1322463914 992351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the | in data declarations is also or. < 1322463919 937314 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I read that as "If I have a proof of a or b, and I have a proof of if a then c, and I have a proof of if b then c, then c? < 1322463920 487085 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well yeah. it's not expected that implementations actually _use_ that representation. :P < 1322463933 819882 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do I have to do currying? < 1322463938 678307 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's fine < 1322463976 916427 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partial functions don't count as proofs, right? Otherwise I could prove Either a b -> a < 1322463984 449725 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not. < 1322464008 366433 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Maybe a mean? < 1322464022 814846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do I do logical and? < 1322464030 980932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical and does (,) < 1322464031 842168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is (,) < 1322464032 84470 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's isomorphic to Either () a < 1322464035 717636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And logical or does Either < 1322464043 785915 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maybe is < 1322464065 148044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe makes it always true it is always provable by Nothing < 1322464066 5390 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I take it that that's essentially useless, since it should always be true < 1322464073 605174 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah < 1322464074 779185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's why it's useful. < 1322464079 214050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in program-land :P < 1322464080 722489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For numbers, you might use Maybe for successor, though < 1322464111 451041 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Maybe a < 1322464112 21710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = Nothing < 1322464123 577456 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a < 1322464124 182604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322464172 437564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Bool < 1322464172 902296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = False < 1322464209 135542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Bool = Either () () -- yes? < 1322464210 238384 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (() -> a) -> a < 1322464210 916291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a () < 1322464217 858178 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: essentially :P < 1322464231 871535 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and () is useless since you can construct it on the fly < 1322464245 440305 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm. < 1322464272 15936 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have anything other than Either, (,), and ()? < 1322464281 256987 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (->) < 1322464285 660274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ @djinn makes an attempt to use as many arguments as possible, i.e. it's slightly preference for linear logic. so it's not _entirely_ useless. < 1322464297 871094 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Maybe a -> (a -> b) -> Maybe b < 1322464298 541974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b = < 1322464298 720882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : case a of < 1322464298 721052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing -> Nothing < 1322464298 721153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just c -> Just (b c) < 1322464318 848981 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it is isomorphic to Either () a that is why it can be successor, if Either is addition, if you have a type of bijective functions: Either () a <-> Maybe a { Left () -> Nothing; Right x -> Just x; } if you had a <-> type then you could *prove* it to be isomorphic. < 1322464328 432128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's basically what intuitionistic type theory is. (don't forget Void) < 1322464373 277590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It is: f = flip fmap < 1322464444 341992 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why have anything other than Either, (,), and ()? <-- the others are defined using @djinn's definition mechanism < 1322464450 521492 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list djinn < 1322464451 118643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :djinn provides: djinn djinn-add djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-clr djinn-ver < 1322464472 470122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Void < 1322464473 121292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322464476 851643 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-add Fnord a b = Fnord a (b -> a) < 1322464477 472968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot parse command < 1322464477 651852 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Blah < 1322464478 137527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Undefined type Blah < 1322464483 839805 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-add data Fnord a b = Fnord a (b -> a) < 1322464485 254550 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had bijective function type then the types as numbers can be: uninhabited type for zero, Maybe for successor, Either for addition, (,) for multiplication, -> for exponent, <-> with same type on both sides for factorial < 1322464489 485148 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (a -> b) -> Void < 1322464490 88888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322464493 679512 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, come on < 1322464501 399867 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> Fnord a b < 1322464502 26690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = Fnord a (\ _ -> a) < 1322464514 455087 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord? < 1322464521 432987 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i just defined it :P < 1322464543 487898 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what it means < 1322464546 765815 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-names < 1322464547 268981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either Left Right Maybe Nothing Just Bool False True Void Not Void Monad Eq Bool Fnord Fnord < 1322464561 566639 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Void -> Void < 1322464562 94111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a < 1322464569 831398 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be some duplication there... < 1322464572 98742 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Void -> (a -> b) < 1322464572 733900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = void < 1322464579 373906 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...huh? < 1322464587 704975 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is void? < 1322464606 410652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be: void x = case x of { } but Haskell doesn't accept that < 1322464612 711047 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: void :: Void -> a < 1322464616 983810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322464629 415096 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it may be a special case < 1322464631 982665 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, a statement that if you proven void, you can prove anything < 1322464640 318137 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322464724 837841 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (Void -> a) -> a -> b < 1322464725 618551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322464735 275046 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In TNT, (exist a. x) is equivalent to (not (forall a. not x)) < 1322464737 316490 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that does make sense < 1322464763 700789 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (a -> Void) -> a -> b < 1322464764 123912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b = void (a b) < 1322464783 538295 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-del Fnord < 1322464791 451463 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-names < 1322464792 30314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either Left Right Maybe Nothing Just Bool False True Void Not Void Monad Eq Bool < 1322464804 248405 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not Void < 1322464804 783648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a < 1322464806 557155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have x{5} or x{anything} then you can make (exist a. x{a}) < 1322464824 224047 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1322464851 2062 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1322464878 679026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do this in Haskell? < 1322464899 429700 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds pretty much like dependent typing, so no. < 1322464926 579913 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe on the type level < 1322464949 551486 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who knows with the new type -> kind lifting that's coming up < 1322464954 223734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be specific, I mean of making (exist a. x{a}) from (x{5}) or whatever < 1322464967 362724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is type -> kind lifting? < 1322465091 362280 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did it figure out Not Void? < 1322465129 876483 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's Void -> Void[D < 1322465140 520254 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Not work < 1322465141 481510 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322465161 207815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Not a = Not (a -> Void) < 1322465166 499198 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no data < 1322465169 986898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-env < 1322465170 608991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data () = () < 1322465170 788044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Either a b = Left a | Right b < 1322465170 788220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a < 1322465170 788320 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bool = False | True < 1322465170 788418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void < 1322465172 555526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Not x = x -> Void < 1322465174 706461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1322465176 597874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool < 1322465183 711938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1322465199 544986 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I'm starting to get an understanding of it now < 1322465225 955273 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Not need to be a type? < 1322465236 438827 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/mm68o/ghc_74_branched_whats_in_for_christmas/c328u7i has a small example < 1322465246 681529 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the reply to that < 1322465254 856195 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Either a (Not a) < 1322465255 406843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1322465273 119131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322465276 506755 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would dependent types allow you to make (exist a. x{a}) from (x{5})? GHC does have a existential types extension < 1322465322 511977 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well it's the part of using the value 5 rather than a type to quantify over, which is problematic. < 1322465341 523338 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which _might_ work with the new extension, i don't know < 1322465352 525620 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean for any type in general, not necessarily 5 < 1322465358 242333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/type/value/ < 1322465369 937861 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then i guess ghc can do some of it on the type level. < 1322465416 240731 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Exists x = forall a. Exists (x a) < 1322465496 507854 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dependent types is when you allow types to depend on values. and ghc does not support it fully, not even with the new extension. < 1322465538 664731 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, in the case I given, the 5 *will* be a type, such as (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe Zero))))) < 1322465560 769104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it won't depend on a value. < 1322465584 502587 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's a bit more that you're doing type-level computation. < 1322465600 665 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it should be possible. although there may be further difficulties when you unpack it from the existential again (you cannot compare well things unpacked at different points) < 1322465623 756187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean to prove it by writing functions like how Curry-Howard is < 1322466071 163092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have idea of bijective function syntax: A new built-in type "<->" which is like "->" but only bijective functions (a value of this type is allowed to be undefined but can return undefined if and only if the input is undefined), a new keyword "bijective" which introduces layout, and new built-in functions called "inverse" and "runBijective" < 1322466167 132069 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse :: (a <-> b) -> (b <-> a); runBijective :: (a <-> b) -> a -> b; < 1322466280 82148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bijective keyword would make a value having a <-> type, and inside would be something similar to a case block (but with some restrictions). < 1322466321 990952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would this seem to work to you? < 1322466337 296044 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect finding the right restrictions is the hard part here. < 1322466528 768855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should also allow bijective functions to be called directly without the use of runBijective (and calling bijective functions directly would be allowed in a bijective case block). I do have some ideas about the restrictions. For example, each variable used on either side must be used exactly once on each side < 1322466679 757885 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my doubt is whether simple restrictions will allow you to write all the bijective functions you want. < 1322466752 102362 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other restriction would be you would be disallowed to write values of recursive types < 1322466760 882636 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if f is a halting but otherwise non-bijective function, then g x = x `xor` f x is a bijective function. < 1322466776 590479 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1322466796 394492 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for example, if f is a halting but otherwise non-bijective function, then g (x, y) = (x, y `xor` f x) is a bijective function. < 1322466859 280468 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are other functions than xor which work that way... any group operation for example. < 1322466913 515108 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i thought of when i was pondering reversible computing previously. < 1322466974 465666 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need to add additional built-in functions < 1322467076 843934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if that would make it complete < 1322467098 609639 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1322467172 326869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't know how you would use it to prove that there is no such bijective function of types (such as: Not (Zero <-> Maybe Zero)) < 1322467478 960335 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A proof in intuitionistic or classical logic using Curry-Howard would require all functions written to halt, and that is assumed and the logic still works. Maybe something similar can still work with bijective function type? < 1322467793 756164 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear logic seems somewhat relevant, but not perfectly. < 1322467818 719960 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the "every argument must be used exactly once" property < 1322467862 792246 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still allows a function and an argument to combine in a nonreversible way. < 1322468023 762043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could do STM-like stuff without actual repeats (using blocking instead) by using an arrow instead of a monad < 1322468072 293527 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, all information about what variables may be accessed is known statically, and thus the system can check for conflicting variable access < 1322468087 733357 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before running the thread < 1322468100 417332 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1322468109 588915 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows or applicatives, maybe. < 1322468129 644776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are arrows applicatives? < 1322468141 851566 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such prescheduling is supposed to be one of the advantages of arrow/applicative parsers. < 1322468149 259696 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: technically yes < 1322468167 250402 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you fix the first type argument < 1322468267 744750 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/arrow-category-applicative-part-i/ < 1322468431 679005 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need sleep < 1322468434 82643 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw the answer to the title question is "not quite") < 1322468448 63964 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you need some extras in the other direction. < 1322468485 878184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you define applicative in terms of fmap and liftA2 (,) and pure < 1322468557 320992 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes. i think that was mentioned in one of the comments to that link. < 1322468568 898035 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax strong monoid something < 1322468654 211804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you add something weaker than join or >>= that can still define a monad from an applicative, because join or >>= can be defined from this new thing and the applicative things < 1322468735 859328 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322468813 211800 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322468862 534768 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322471718 431315 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B50D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322472700 46308 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322473849 510061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322474759 75256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322477343 344919 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B50D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322477672 236077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322481476 833745 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322481802 454465 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, your proof if even nicer than his. < 1322481802 635880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322481804 820802 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1322482789 948211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phrase quod erat demonstrandum is a translation into Latin from the Greek ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι (hoper edei deixai; abbreviated as ΟΕΔ). Translating from the Latin into English yields, "what was to be demonstrated"; < 1322482799 579742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what all the cool mathematicians say instead. < 1322482894 710568 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION envisions representing a computable real with a list of tuples, the first number of the tuple being an approximation, and the second being the how far off the approximation is, such that the second number is equal to or larger than the error < 1322482907 98329 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, later values in the list would be better approximations < 1322482914 303216 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :French people say CQFD < 1322482937 3736 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm pretty sure there's some other infinite list representation of reals somewhere < 1322482949 78817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you compute how far off the approximation is from the real value without already having information about the number? < 1322482995 490493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the error given in the second number of the tuple may be larger than the actual distance between the approximation and the actual value < 1322483006 314517 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm presuming there is an actual value, just not easy to represent < 1322483023 789086 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it makes sense to say that pi is 3 plus or minus .15 < 1322483030 287683 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance < 1322483087 976264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :e is kind of like 0 plus or minus infinity. < 1322483102 507569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322483137 852305 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most numbers are < 1322483143 832073 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although i isn't < 1322483155 923725 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "number"? < 1322483157 921690 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the approximations don't converge, then it doesn't represent an actual number < 1322483171 935129 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can still do comparisons though, in some cases < 1322483219 948495 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write some code for this < 1322483376 510652 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1322483378 163821 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1322483383 107610 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Slereah < 1322483397 439102 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markov wrote a whole article on writing down definable numbers! < 1322483400 126048 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was neat < 1322483405 411464 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it was like < 1322483422 824464 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f(x) - g(x))/h(x) < 1322483429 834084 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where fgh are recursive functions < 1322483629 40357 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linky? < 1322483644 560709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have a feeling you're referring to a historical source < 1322483647 576190 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, linky? < 1322483656 492912 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Historical indeed < 1322483663 481410 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give you the reference < 1322483871 200295 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Марков, А. А. О конструктивных функциях < 1322483887 172733 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just Markov, "On Constructive Functions" < 1322483916 483483 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should scan it < 1322483931 98500 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :No doubt it's already been scanned < 1322483938 288843 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure < 1322483942 604155 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sold to universities < 1322483953 820410 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-May/091585.html < 1322483956 510722 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it from a book that I bought because I could not find an article in it anywhere < 1322483961 730635 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity = Succ infinity < 1322483971 523140 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the properties of that fascinating < 1322483984 303 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity > any finite natural number < 1322483987 122837 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric := fix Succ < 1322484005 796656 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity > infinity = _|_ < 1322484065 623431 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Ordinal = < 1322484068 303445 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, might break on * < 1322484087 398815 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since probably * is defined with Zero on one of the sides as making it = Zero < 1322484094 963179 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the result should probably be _|_ < 1322484108 364857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5/0 < 1322484109 15735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1322484111 908268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5/0 > 6/0 < 1322484112 721862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322484122 915631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IEEE disagrees. :P < 1322484126 64368 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6/0 > 5/0 < 1322484127 128137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322484147 534817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5/0 >= 6/0 < 1322484148 353680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322484151 311680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps. < 1322484196 124582 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you break the notion of a == b implying a-b==0 < 1322484201 712478 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6/0 - 5/0 < 1322484202 696617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1322484225 541082 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no! Extending a field with infinity does not produce a field! < 1322484231 28471 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop press < 1322484286 446950 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cycle < 1322484287 709792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a] < 1322484350 329440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle $ cycle [1,2,3,4,5] < 1322484351 175350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,... < 1322484354 696339 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think 0ω is defined as 0. < 1322484368 823487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix cycle [1,2,3,4,5] < 1322484369 224057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[t1] -> t' < 1322484369 403266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a]' < 1322484377 482008 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works out fine, as long as you use unamb. < 1322484381 16909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (cycle.) [1,2,3,4,5] < 1322484382 427420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1322484390 692442 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION non-arbitrarily decides that a better representation of definable reals is as an infinite list of tuples, but the tuples are a lower and upper bound < 1322484394 639238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs to fix this bug. :P < 1322484404 222356 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than average and distance < 1322484413 877447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes it easier to define sine < 1322484416 364217 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1322484447 227035 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't really define definability < 1322484482 981129 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there definable numbers that don't fit the mold? I think I'm fine with some lists that don't represent definable numbers < 1322484484 964156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (cycle$) < 1322484485 828954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] < 1322484497 628804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (cycle$) < 1322484501 276214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322484514 833416 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have described the set of real numbers. < 1322484601 90073 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: My Haskell library has no intention of making it possible to define undefinable numbers. If you manage to do this with my library, the destruction of the universe is on your hands. < 1322484775 562485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322484785 453877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1322484796 961308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1322484797 574210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :brogerr < 1322484797 753184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322484823 178832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 said 15h 26m 2s ago: I didn't delete "why testing is good" and the other one, Keymaker did < 1322484828 157567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should have protected it! < 1322484840 427316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: protection has no correlation with deletion at all? < 1322484841 421792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, we should just protect all the spam pages... < 1322484851 929590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, nowadays, you can typically even protect a page that doesn't exist < 1322484856 81206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if Esolang implements that < 1322484871 565631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti something important. < 1322484871 748268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1322484872 940778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I presume people think twice before deleting a protected page < 1322484937 565196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not if it was protected because elliott thinks that protecting spam is a good idea < 1322484950 487610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if there's a wiki on the Internet whose only purpose is to be edited by spambots < 1322484956 760927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you're more reliable than that! :P < 1322484963 280588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hope so < 1322484963 510638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just left with registration and anonymous editing open, and left there < 1322484996 516131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, it'd be basically impossible to find < 1322484997 854722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:22:35: pikhq_, do you often visit Japan? < 1322484998 72282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:22:43: Vorpal: No. < 1322484998 72458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:22:54: Vorpal: In fact, I have never been. < 1322484998 72611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:23:01: what do you use your Japanese knowledge for then? < 1322484998 72708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world domination < 1322485000 793201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as any sane search engine would sort it to the bottom < 1322485006 813899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could advertise it < 1322485009 176317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with spam, even < 1322485010 753939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Japanese is actually a vaguely useful language to know < 1322485018 96627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your spambots start editing your own wiki... < 1322485031 519429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris. AMA (self.IAmA) < 1322485037 762215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come across words in languages I don't understand, occasionally < 1322485044 308538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Japanese is one of those languages < 1322485045 389323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just stares at that headline for a while. < 1322485130 340692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's stareworthy about the headline? < 1322485143 687151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1322485175 124795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have trouble conceiving of Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris as a real person, he's just that guy in the donation boxes < 1322485178 667513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like Big Brother < 1322485202 140794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no issue for me < 1322485216 7280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the TV series, Big Brother is a real person too < 1322485219 913536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :several, I think, who work in rotation < 1322485293 227827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Brandon Harris, antagonist to the man. < 1322485324 57305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for twelve years you have been asking, "who is brandon harris?" < 1322485329 469811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is brandon harris speaking. < 1322485512 855448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I also work for Wikipedia, and had a rather scary email recently: "Before you edit a banner or update some code, just remember that if our readership was a country it would be the 3rd largest country in the world."" < 1322485589 997769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log brandon harris < 1322485623 968589 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-28.txt:13:02:04: for twelve years you have been asking, "who is brandon harris?" < 1322485637 192974 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog brandon harris < 1322485648 58149 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24786 < 1322485674 71529 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-05.txt:19:38:28: "A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris." < 1322485721 356512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, wikipedia had to take down the fundraising statistics page because of the traffic from reddit < 1322485739 32233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing actually happens occasionally < 1322485760 367704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I feel like reddit is like this hivemind of horrible internet trend stuff. < 1322485771 154978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1322485776 305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get up to Admin level, you have to be careful to avoid Wikipedia slashdotting itself < 1322485792 271668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but how............. < 1322485797 525145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to know which bits can handle heavy traffic and which bits can't < 1322485823 97208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: you don't want to hit the toolserver on every page read, or even every edit (more than it's currently hit, that is)) < 1322485837 471762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is there only /one/ toolserver? < 1322485839 954003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, you can hit the API on every read, but not really perform more than a few queries < 1322485843 691681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1322485851 739602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "The Wikimedia Toolserver is a collaborative platform providing Unix hosting for various software tools written and used by Wikimedia editors. The service is operated by Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. with assistance from the Wikimedia Foundation. < 1322485851 919209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It consists of thirteen servers as outlined here." < 1322485859 903774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it looks like one < 1322485861 822692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not, I found the answer before you gave me an incorrect one :P < 1322485862 923328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to users < 1322485872 24832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so does wikipedia itself :P < 1322485880 649987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does Facebook. (I think) < 1322485887 397881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so does everything) < 1322485890 360702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, there's only one physical server that handles write changes < 1322485894 106230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, things that handle the database < 1322485898 415814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of them are for reads < 1322485900 391688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.toolserver.org/w/images/b/b5/Toolserver-cluster.svg < 1322485911 572766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense, given Wikipedia's load patterns < 1322485930 141723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't help but feel that Wikipedia could do a lot better than it could if it wasn't tied to its software < 1322485937 115583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think they can trivially hot-swap /which/ server handles the writes, though, for redundancy) < 1322485957 123195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, MediaWiki is painful < 1322485959 19248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally < 1322485972 333612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's excellent in terms of its user-facing behaviour, but behind the scenes it's a mess < 1322485986 49802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no need to have a linear history at all, for one thing < 1322486008 973313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"see page as of time X" is a useful operation < 1322486018 230305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but that's not the same thing < 1322486021 124318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although nonlinear histories can be linearised for that purpose < 1322486035 245102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, you could easily allow edits to be done on N servers instead of 1 < 1322486039 348462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you stalk people with differing viewpoints from your own so you can call them out as deletionists or pushing a POV? < 1322486040 675635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just merge it afterwards < 1322486049 573064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although you have to block the confirmation page until the merge happens < 1322486053 210309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can notify of conflicts < 1322486067 12619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I guess no linear history wouldn't affect the user changes log. < 1322486069 460519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: with binoculars < 1322486114 604569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Wikipedia's designed to take Linus' Law into account, either < 1322486122 732049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not actually joking. people do that.) < 1322486126 476764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… MediaWiki's storage model is essentially what git's designed for < 1322486146 466654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I've been known to stalk suspected trolls/spammers/vandals before now in order to make sure < 1322486170 593312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it ignores most of the optimisations git's made to handle that < 1322486182 971480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, MediaWiki suffers from being developed before common RCSes < 1322486188 649516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVCSes, rather < 1322486197 246149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(RCS wouldn't work very well :P) < 1322486198 648876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does SVN use reverse diffs for storage? < 1322486206 713401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno anything about SVN's storage < 1322486252 168195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION frowns at the TDWTF discussion of the twelve weights problem < 1322486263 487498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mediawiki is only 2 years older than svn, anyway < 1322486272 2284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's actually solvable with 13 (at least if you only care about knowing the odd one out, not lighter/heavier), and everyone's missed it so far < 1322486274 938642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, more like one year < 1322486282 660347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wasn't really an option at the time, I wouldn't think < 1322486288 247360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, it's hard for me to envisage something revision-control-like being older than SVN < 1322486291 388487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from CVS and RCS < 1322486311 268315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: open-source VCS is novel field, really < 1322486318 110026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only got started around 2001 < 1322486325 503725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, anything other than CVS < 1322486374 991176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before VCS closed source developers collaborated via email attachments. < 1322486380 335898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha ha ha. but probably true) < 1322486389 871090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: list of VCSes older than SVN: < 1322486410 699635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCCS (1972) RCS (1982) < 1322486410 878653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PVCS (1985) < 1322486410 878813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVS (1990) CVSNT (1998) < 1322486412 802933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software Change Manager (1970s) ClearCase (1992) CMVC (1994) Visual SourceSafe (1994) Perforce (1995) StarTeam (1995) < 1322486416 735441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeamWare (1990s?) Code Co-op (1997) BitKeeper (1998) < 1322486421 569373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can't cure my prejudices with facts! < 1322486441 431832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but I can cause you severe cognitive dissonance! MWAHAHAHAHA < 1322486462 312645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's cognitive dissonance sounds awesome. < 1322486523 99746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my IRC client prints elliott's and kallisti's name in the same color, and I keep reading kallisti's lines as being from elliott and having to do a double-take < 1322486526 256931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even reading the article on cognitive dissonance fills me with anxiety about cognitive dissonance. < 1322486539 382116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that line of mine, I typed "color" then spend around 4 seconds wondering whether "colour" would be a better spelling < 1322486540 808637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is because we are almost the same person. < 1322486552 319924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: turn off nick colouring, then you just mix people up because of similar names < 1322486620 363423 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322486641 417221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude what if we had hair on our palms? < 1322486645 230690 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :handshakes would be so much weirder. < 1322487213 993037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not entirely convinced that kallisti is not a spambot < 1322487216 512434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mostly convinced < 1322487248 540795 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, can you do handshakes? < 1322487248 946340 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: " who says?" screamed glod. " he was no longer an option. he could hear the sounds of argument coming from the fnord fnord. < 1322487269 700465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The word douche came to English via French – where today it means shower (from Italian: doccia "conduit pipe" and docciare "pour by drops"). It is thus a notorious false friend encountered by non-native speakers of English. < 1322487293 519457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the funny thing is, I actually know its French meaning rather better than its English one < 1322487593 71668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that fizzie is here. < 1322487668 961281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet elliott is here. < 1322487675 913280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong! < 1322487677 38383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION better gambler. < 1322487795 514420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott would get better odds on his/her bet < 1322487825 408311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would indeed get better odds on his/her bet. < 1322487880 757477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :watg < 1322488036 190656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my odds are 1 in 1.. < 1322488047 720281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S ALL THE ODDS < 1322488908 68036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, @ has made me unable to be interested in low-level OS news < 1322488949 171374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh my god I decided to visit reddit on my own free will what have I done < 1322488959 957730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a random button. < 1322488984 670934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is? < 1322488992 569630 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you hit random and it /goes to random thingies/ < 1322488994 866411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, random subreddit. < 1322488997 727560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :boards? uh... < 1322488998 63513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell looks at the top bar < 1322489000 54145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :subreddits. < 1322489008 980842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/RATS/ rats < 1322489129 373777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/somethingimade/ < 1322489212 958356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: show off awesome perl scripts here. < 1322489215 469852 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/ < 1322489221 783683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reflect on painful childhood memories. < 1322489225 43246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as writing perl scripts. < 1322489337 671865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : FWIW, there's only one physical server that handles write changes as in, things that handle the database <-- very doubtful that mediawiki wouldn't use a distrubuted database server. Doesn't even mysql support that nowdays? I know postgre supports it well for example. < 1322489351 140806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/frugalmalefashion/ < 1322489352 936325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322489384 836156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/ < 1322489387 770158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god it never ends. < 1322489415 836357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Psychonaut/ < 1322489417 789944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found home. < 1322489423 721001 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the "X is a monad" series: < 1322489434 53108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's /r/fakelesbians < 1322489436 807474 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A certain way of writing BF programs is a monad (I think) < 1322489453 885525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1322489468 729122 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs < 1322489475 685014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe ais523 means "one hostname" like he did with the toolservers:P < 1322489476 859046 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :State representing locations of variables < 1322489512 226295 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run the monad, which must return something of a certain type, and you get a BF program < 1322489514 853002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah help kallisti is always taken how do I make usernames? < 1322489515 727470 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, bye < 1322489541 52629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: kakeprophet < 1322489548 658949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1322489552 100307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet is better < 1322489560 641081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need < 1322489562 451982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORIGINAL THOUGHT < 1322489563 784192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you do sign up to reddit, i suggest the first thing you do is to unsubscribe from all default subreddits < 1322489566 104016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT LAME. < 1322489570 511226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously < 1322489575 272246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least /r/{pics,funny,politics} < 1322489579 438814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh /r/WTF too < 1322489589 290564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :politics might be good < 1322489594 160390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: /r/politics is actually US politics (is actually US politics circlejerk) < 1322489597 402685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe there are better news sources. < 1322489603 850981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's fine I like that . < 1322489609 323217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you really don't < 1322489613 293191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. okay. < 1322489618 928474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you still need to propagate writes in a consistent order, even with a distrubuted db. At least if you want a consistent history for edits like mediawiki does < 1322489673 321355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm an obvious solution to load balancing here would be to hash the article identifier and use that to select which database server to use. Don't even need distributed databases for it < 1322489676 171224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only a few things need consistent ordering in MW < 1322489677 789723 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also /r/{atheism,gaming} and maybe /r/{IAmA,todayilearned} and /r/AskReddit < 1322489689 946463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/atheism isn't default these days < 1322489691 110309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor is gaming < 1322489702 15579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheism? default? whut. < 1322489703 523677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the default list < 1322489704 400531 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They appeared to be, I just logged out to check < 1322489711 488598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, gaming and atheism are < 1322489751 477865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's like they want /r/atheism to be full of controversy < 1322489753 462014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK, here's an unsubscribe list: /r/{pics,funny,atheism,politics,WTF,AskReddit,AdviceAnimals} and most likely /r/{gaming,todayilearned} < 1322489754 885926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by putting everyone in it. < 1322489781 51536 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You definitely want out of /r/gaming, there are better replacements < 1322489789 481525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, I'm not subscribed so I didn't feel qualified to say < 1322489789 941851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as? < 1322489799 982291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, it's not full of controversy at all, /r/atheism is actually the internet's largest circlejerk < 1322489811 40042 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/{Games,gamernews,truegaming} < 1322489822 718566 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :truegaming sounds good maybe? < 1322489824 156461 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on what you want, you can pick (I'm subbed to all three) < 1322489828 136516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's falsegaming acting like truegaming < 1322489828 775838 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :truegaming is only for discussions < 1322489828 957617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Okay, what Deewiant said, except don't subscribe to anything starting with "true" < 1322489838 722384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but true sounds all elitist. < 1322489839 257507 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322489841 630783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elite < 1322489847 502768 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of true* I'm only in TrueReddit and truegaming < 1322489852 890797 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find they have interesting content < 1322489860 653459 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1322489869 404583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe, I just can't stand the implicit elitism :P < 1322489878 936389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueTrueReddit < 1322489879 120142 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my brother has skyrim.. watching him play it makes my life feel painfully inadequate. < 1322489881 31866 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in it for the links, not the comments :-P < 1322489882 823733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is actually a real non-joke subreddit. < 1322489890 791551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/content/ omg so much content < 1322489891 294731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As TrueReddit grows, it will become less like TrueReddit. See "Hot Tubbing an Online Community" for thoughts as to why. By virtue of the fact that it is smaller, and will not yet make /r/all, TrueTrueReddit is better equipped to adhere to its own standards." < 1322489892 76603 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's non-joke these days < 1322489892 479180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, why don't play it yourself too? < 1322489895 228683 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TrueTrueReddit used to be a joke < 1322489900 643358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TruestReddit < 1322489912 569095 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you want the real answer? < 1322489915 515217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I don't understand the hype around Skyrim actually. < 1322489918 950106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it is a good game. < 1322489921 914769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, why do you ask? < 1322489936 240766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it looks like so much freaking fun thouhg < 1322489938 391843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Oh, and don't subscribe to /r/programming, though it isn't default < 1322489939 740046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not a good game. A fun game sure, but too buggy to be a good game < 1322489945 430024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, duh. < 1322489953 984815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be like going to the programming board on 4chan. < 1322489956 385222 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/AskReddit can be moderately interesting for some things but I think it's best to just take a quick look at the topics once a week or so than have it on your frontpage all the time < 1322489959 960265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: /r/coding is... "okay", but /r/haskell is the only decent programming subreddit I know of < 1322489962 510490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that I care about < 1322489968 201071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, somehow after I saved a game I got a non-random quest a second time. < 1322489971 176174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's one of the only reasons I use reddit still :P < 1322489972 630173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am an expert at internetz brah, I've got this. < 1322489973 264110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that annoyed me < 1322489974 63682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know that /r/programming is better these days, right? < 1322489987 438742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I read it every day; it really isn't < 1322489992 901486 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1322489997 944733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: certainly less buggy than previous Bethesda games < 1322490008 465513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OK, the links are usually interesting, but then I check the comments and everything goes downhill < 1322490012 434140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or well, many many many games that people have flooded money into. < 1322490014 456680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Especially if it involves Haskell :) < 1322490025 22792 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The solution to this for you is: don't check the comments < 1322490031 247590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well maybe on release. I didn't play oblivion until some fairly late patch < 1322490034 667694 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (For others, it's also "don't care about the comments" but I doubt that works for you) < 1322490034 855382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I can't stop myself < 1322490041 45843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perpetuating a vile industry that encourages rapid deadlines and not good finished products. < 1322490053 551966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VILE < 1322490055 382067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VILE I SAY < 1322490058 263507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322490060 706813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, evil < 1322490063 821891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like vile < 1322490066 6751 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is deadlines about? < 1322490066 462317 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder if RES or something allows for removing the comment links :-P < 1322490067 978891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with shit switched around. < 1322490076 745304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I tried RES once and I just got annoyed at all the visual noise :P < 1322490089 358465 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just configure it, you can remove everything you don't want < 1322490096 677217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I know, I just also don't have any use for it < 1322490103 942536 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if deadlines are such a problem why are they so important < 1322490114 901164 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it mostly for its "hide child comments" feature < 1322490116 839200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/shrooms/ I am disappointed at the lack of quality post things. < 1322490124 498594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: What's the real answer, since Vorpal is too boring to ask < 1322490127 199516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway, I seen quite a few stable games on their release. None of them were open world sandbox games though. < 1322490148 285034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as with most things it is best understood in a functional sense < 1322490154 265761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/starcraft yesssss < 1322490154 449890 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322490165 787411 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/starcraft is kind of shitty as well < 1322490167 286398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have an IRC channel as well? < 1322490189 5116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an anthropologist studying the primitive /r/starcraft natives, I can confirm that it's shitty < 1322490192 629274 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about the people than the game < 1322490197 553410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they're weird < 1322490204 476884 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but maybe it has like... starcraft games? < 1322490205 462427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff? < 1322490215 747202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so.. the core explanation is i don't have either 1) the game 2) a PC which could play the game. < 1322490224 825033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Riveting < 1322490229 623803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I bet they use a lot of jargon you don't understand. < 1322490240 136982 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me /r/starcraft is like /r/AskReddit, I check it on occasion but don't subscribe to it or read it actively < 1322490241 197027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it gets more complex < 1322490246 317596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my only experience of starcraft is watching a few minutes of a commentated match. It was mostly incomprehensible jargon. < 1322490266 841391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the jargon is actually not that dense. < 1322490268 373336 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprise: thing you know nothing about is incomprehensible < 1322490276 508871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know why you'd check /r/AskReddit ever, anything actually decent filters through to /r/bestof or whatever (which is admittedly kinda awful itself), and the rest is really awfully inane stuff < 1322490283 564981 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read /r/bestof < 1322490285 311371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, just as dense as for dota/lol/hon. < 1322490286 683611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FoxTrot creator Bill Amend is thinking about doing StarCraft 2 commentaries. Let's encourage him! (twitter.com) < 1322490286 865823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1322490292 737386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also mostly incomprehensible < 1322490292 918114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: /r/bestof is default these days :P < 1322490298 476109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://blog.reddit.com/2011/10/saying-goodbye-to-old-friend-and.html has the current list < 1322490304 467031 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I unsubscribed from it long before it was default :-P < 1322490305 641372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 6pool, 3rax, 3gate, 1-1-1, etc < 1322490313 527187 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) i don't have a job. 2) i don't have any money 3) i don't have any income. 4) whatever money i got in the last year from gifts such as xmas or birthday or other ended up going to my mom < 1322490315 958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Nope, haven't seen anything like that < 1322490324 50592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think you're expecting too much of them, it seems to mostly be celebrity worship crap < 1322490328 731120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4b) she ended up wasting most of this buying me soft drink and junkfood < 1322490328 911453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..oh < 1322490330 303802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb. < 1322490337 593448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting like... people who play starcraft < 1322490339 936449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and know things about it. < 1322490401 781868 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) my brother has an explosive anger problem 2) my brother is greedy and selfish for some reason 3) due to (1) and (2) whenever i might acquire anything my brother wants he will just take it rather than waste energy getting his own copy of said thing < 1322490434 406142 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was about 10, i learned that in my house if i wanted to make a glass of cordial i basically had to pour one for everyone < 1322490438 927868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you forgot 2i) There are other ways to get hold of games if you want to. < 1322490440 357795 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As for /r/AskReddit, there's a good question once in a while plus I find reading about amusing real-world stories a significant improvement to e.g. /r/{funny,pics,videos}; it works with RES's "hide all child comments" well, too, so you can only read the top-level replies < 1322490447 605598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: http://www.reddit.com/r/drugs/ < 1322490471 248607 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im trying to express i guess how futile my life is.. < 1322490481 704120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/MvQ9G.jpg < 1322490483 442237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, unless you use a console rather than a PC for gaming, in which case why on earth? < 1322490485 463118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out < 1322490490 312602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what this picture is trying to express < 1322490495 194195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an unrelated problem altogether. < 1322490512 638358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: this is perhaps the most elaborate learned helplessness ever conveyed over irc < 1322490531 599871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, just use torrents? *shrug* < 1322490533 497897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "hide all child comments" sounds nice in theory but makes me miss out on e.g. when a high voted comment has an even higher-voted reply proving it's bullshit :P < 1322490548 171769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my pc isn't near good enough to run it < 1322490549 556485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can always manually check the replies < 1322490562 171779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am not sure how good my pc is though but yeah < 1322490562 759403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're all in a state of learned helplessness man. < 1322490563 242468 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (There's a "show child comments" button after hiding) < 1322490574 24746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you gonna do about pollution, dawg? < 1322490576 81358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothin' < 1322490576 901878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not shit. < 1322490579 977067 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And that's what I usually do when I come across something that might need proving :-P < 1322490588 622196 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it hides pun threads and such effectively. < 1322490595 770931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maan, I don't read reddit to think < 1322490602 402416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, anything that gets rid of pun threads is tempting :P < 1322490615 335179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well then I guess you are stuck. Gaming when there are ranged weapons (bows and spells here) on consoles is generally horrible anyway due to lack of any sort of precision in aiming without a mouse. < 1322490617 775282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow a lot of pill-poppers on /r/drugs < 1322490620 778236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame. < 1322490658 542225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, Vorpal is one of those "I can't aim with a thumbstick" people. < 1322490668 66636 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: im just saying i feel how deprived i am when watching my brother play skyrim on a pc < 1322490679 427538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I consider "auto aim" to be cheating. I know a lot of shooters on consoles use them. < 1322490685 313846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that shouldn't be needed < 1322490687 352032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not what I'm talking about. < 1322490689 677293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not needed < 1322490700 705181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do this neat thing where you turn up the sensitivity on the aiming < 1322490702 111612 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ... i feel how fucked my life is on every level.. < 1322490706 912539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it takes much more time to aim with a thumbstick than with a mouse < 1322490713 9281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gives you like, control over where you aim things based on how far you tilt the thumbstick < 1322490716 24359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty neat. < 1322490738 657740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: s/$/ for me/ < 1322490742 876578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: s/$/ because i'm bad at it/ < 1322490745 275278 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep myself happy by lying to myself < 1322490748 72342 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet lies < 1322490761 315127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, still inferior to a mouse. < 1322490784 779066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway another problem: current consoles are way behind PCs when it comes to graphical fidelity. < 1322490799 71011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~graphical fidelity~ < 1322490804 572891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322490811 595593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphical quality then. Whatever you call it < 1322490825 730160 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have learned that a nation has a similar problem when it feels its borders are too small.. and it has to ask all its neighbors to compromise < 1322490845 718568 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like suppose italy wanted to expand itself.. then all of europe might have to shift their borders < 1322490897 973313 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have also learned that revolution tends to lead to a lot of deaths, and that border-renegotiations tends to lead to war < 1322490930 520499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, just compare a high end PC with the current PS3 or xbox 360 (wii is even further behind it seems). Assuming they all render to the same resolution, which system will be able to provide the best graphics? The PC. < 1322490932 317013 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i know that, inspite all this a majority of the population of the world are screwed < 1322490986 580051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nobody actually gives a shit though because nobody derives fun from standing in front of a texture and admiring how high-resolution it is. < 1322490990 789834 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like helplessness might be part of the system.. like... why are creatuers with learned helplessness surviving natural selection < 1322491003 793949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and consoles are attached to televisions which you sit further away from to play and therefore notice finer details less. < 1322491043 332317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the second point is true yes. < 1322491045 307913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: because we don't actually have to fight for our lives/ < 1322491051 523424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: we've won the game. < 1322491055 807096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively < 1322491060 621572 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1322491065 380177 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in... this country anyway < 1322491070 519683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many others. < 1322491070 842499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer games to cover a larger part of my field of view though. < 1322491136 584245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but you yourself complained about the texture quality in skyrim screenshots. So you obviously do think it matter to some degree. < 1322491141 192252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :matters* < 1322491212 446311 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the cool things about it is so much voice acting in it.. and so much stuff in it.. and the conversation trees (seem a bit contrived at times, but oh well) < 1322491258 142982 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not hte game itself i guess, but realizing that i'm not at that level of society that can play a modern pc game < 1322491260 497770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh snaaaapp < 1322491265 244016 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not like owning a car < 1322491274 381374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its merely a pc.. < 1322491278 284384 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. < 1322491280 7623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322491294 183497 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its more than i can fit into my life < 1322491298 190947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude who needs a car. < 1322491299 524855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like < 1322491305 162880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :order groceries online, do freelance work. < 1322491334 850952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the bus < 1322491336 533206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or train < 1322491341 780741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ha < 1322491342 94493 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly if i cannot buy myself a new pc ... a car is not in wildest dreams (even though diabetes is main reason i shouldn't drive.. and problems i suspect in my vestibular system) < 1322491352 77326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well if you are in US you are screwed < 1322491368 557047 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. you can rule out a girlfriend < 1322491375 167203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1322491381 410977 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats kind of implied by the whole geek thing :P < 1322491395 967691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1322491434 676881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're just caring about the wrong things, and letting completely irrational beliefs hold you back. hmmmm? < 1322491468 484599 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this rate, before i die i will face a living hell on earth < 1322491483 163722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the problems i am describing escalate and close in on me < 1322491488 948981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are compsci students that are female. Far fewer than half of the students, but they do exist at the university I'm studying at least. < 1322491505 445327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes I even saw one in one of my classes! < 1322491506 918990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1322491521 447729 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never planned for the possibility my brother would turn on me < 1322491532 35451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I think it is something like two out of 18 in one of the current courses I'm taking. < 1322491543 100942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :courses I'm currently taking* < 1322491549 228729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :she was even attractive! but, that's no place to pick up women, since... everyone is basically fawning her. < 1322491568 737913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and she was probably like married or something < 1322491586 658857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322491612 282104 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322491617 909214 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322491630 848753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not so much of that here. I usually hang around with a group of around 5 people for stuff like lunch and so on, one of them is in that group. Just plain friends. < 1322491648 622265 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, question I'm asking my students in this marking session: they have to write (in Java) a recursive method that sums a linked list < 1322491652 242327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_, run away < 1322491664 650158 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm asking them what would happen if they removed the base case < 1322491672 151305 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answers are interesting, sometims < 1322491672 338416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, speaking of which, does java optimise tail recursion? < 1322491673 622287 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometimes < 1322491684 966232 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know; I think it's allowed to, but generally doesn't in debug mode < 1322491688 481014 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1322491689 470229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322491722 164785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, so what sort of interesting answers were there? < 1322491723 569558 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :linked list, in java, what for? how? < 1322491733 577695 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: same way you define a linked list in C < 1322491738 221542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, it is trivial to do with classes? < 1322491751 459281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, since everything but the primitive types are by reference < 1322491762 502931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as far as I know < 1322491762 810772 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, fwiw, java.util.LinkedList < 1322491792 592173 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are no pointers in java < 1322491798 615338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there are < 1322491800 735471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's a pointer < 1322491804 637126 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to roll your own when perfectly reasonable doubly-linked lists exist < 1322491811 986604 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Java has references, which are a special case of pointers < 1322491819 381843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, everything except primitive types are references. < 1322491824 116537 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or to look at it another way, pointers are a common way to implement references) < 1322491828 904237 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and references are enough for a linked list < 1322491834 960635 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1322491873 962878 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come from a world of pointers < 1322491878 327603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, so what sort of interesting answers were there? < 1322491883 550359 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, the students who are trying to answer everything by rote assume they'd get a stack overflow, because that's always what happens when you remove the base case of a recursion, right? < 1322491894 624446 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I ask them what'd happen when the end of the list is reached < 1322491895 939575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, heh < 1322491897 72496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: ruby - world of pointers < 1322491901 984908 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funniest answer so far is that it goes back to the start of the list < 1322491917 460508 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, java.util.LinkedList, the linked list that lacks an easy of way of retrieving the tail < 1322491917 686287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, non-ciruclar list I take it? < 1322491921 8220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :circular* < 1322491928 777032 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: singly linked < 1322491939 608888 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's handrolled, and does have an accessor for the tail < 1322491940 98554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, you can have a singly linked circular list! < 1322491947 334781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1322491954 840424 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, ruby is not my main language ;p < 1322491966 426646 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it doesn't have a constructor or setter method that would allow creating a circular one without bypassing the security model somehow < 1322491975 403767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Seriously? < 1322491981 613718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't figured out his "main language" < 1322491986 53235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have one of those. < 1322491993 820196 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seriously; you can mutate it into its tail < 1322491995 799324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, how can someone fail a simple question like that, I don't get it. < 1322492000 632154 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the reason I rolled my own at one time < 1322492003 594945 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not get a reference to the tail without changing it < 1322492018 897270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it's "linked list: the arraylist interface" < 1322492026 782908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA the least useful structure, ever < 1322492035 212665 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1322492036 21381 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do subList(1, list.size()) but that probably copies n-1 elements < 1322492040 517072 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, about tail-calls in Java, I just looked it up; the JVM doesn't do it because it needs to maintain the stack trace as expected < 1322492053 33110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ouch < 1322492055 516187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do tail calls with stack traces trivially < 1322492057 294163 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but individual JVM languages can optimise tail-recursion (i.e. self-tail-calls) into loops if they want < 1322492060 867445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's GvR's excuse too < 1322492069 577910 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you don't give a shit about Java and now, suddenly, everybody is talking about Java < 1322492072 865589 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come < 1322492077 960602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ais523_ brought java up < 1322492080 78115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ais523_ teaches java < 1322492082 513373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, is javac able to do that? < 1322492083 112983 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trivially" is a bit much; simply, maybe :-P < 1322492085 263443 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get the names of functions trivially < 1322492088 71508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we talk about the things ais523_ talks about < 1322492090 812497 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can't inspect the values of params back along the stack, though < 1322492108 764246 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: excuse me, but... begone! < 1322492109 137828 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because I'm marking Java right now, except it's a two-week exercise and the student in this slot did it all last week < 1322492109 753166 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::] < 1322492109 964719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Sure you can, it just means you leak memory < 1322492112 811306 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the week off this week < 1322492120 128423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, that's almost the same as not optimising tail calls < 1322492122 596336 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, is that even a tail-call any more? < 1322492133 351755 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious place to store it is the call stack < 1322492141 875542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Store it somewhere bigger < 1322492147 131688 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it'd be a tail-jump; when you actually hit the return of the tail-calls, just pop all the stack elements at once < 1322492157 842173 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get a speed improvement if not a space improvement < 1322492166 261790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks the tail call argument is rubbish anyway < 1322492169 491740 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises with horror that this is actually a standard idiom in INTERCAL < 1322492172 873677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just make it up when trying to think of excuses not to implement it < 1322492178 528333 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the jvm should have a flag to loop tail recursion and not give a damn about stack data :/ < 1322492193 31742 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail-jumping, that is < 1322492195 751248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never heard of anyone failing to debug a Scheme program because they tail-recursed and the stack trace didn't have all the frames < 1322492235 157986 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the typical API to a Prolog debugger (which seems standard among multiple implementations, strangely) tends to have two different operation modes, one which tail-recurses and one which doesn't < 1322492244 305693 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it extends to tail-calls generally < 1322492249 174100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is weird though < 1322492263 115204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also anyone who does tail recursion optimisation as opposed to tail call optimisation < 1322492266 380817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not my friend, advanced warning < 1322492282 283607 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when not debugging, it optimises out the tail-recursions just fine (again, not sure about general tail calls); in the debugger, I imagine being able to see them helps sometimes < 1322492297 356690 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, Perl has specific syntax for doing a tail-call, and probably doesn't do them if you don't use it < 1322492300 48834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you could just do the optimisation at compile-to-bytecode time. So there is really no obvious reason to not have it there rather than in the jvm < 1322492305 937845 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an interesting middle ground < 1322492308 906947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can JIT better doing it in the JVM I guess. < 1322492309 563368 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnt prolog come before haskell? < 1322492313 535670 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the JVM has a concept of methods < 1322492322 782178 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm not sure, they're both earlier-than-you'd-think < 1322492326 577014 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure which is more earlier < 1322492327 543740 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322492378 679800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, probably. Still there is no obvious reason to not optimise tail calls already in the compiler if the end result (the machine code produced by the JIT) ends up equally good to doing the whole thing in the JIT would have. < 1322492383 752296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah the grammar of that. < 1322492400 617295 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322492412 473710 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.oracle.com/jrose/entry/tail_calls_in_the_vm < 1322492412 963178 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog predates haskell by over two decades :O < 1322492416 810308 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :never really thought about TCO before < 1322492423 336808 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proposal to add tail-calls to Java bytecode in a backwards-compatible way) < 1322492448 558892 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322492464 868877 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : didnt prolog come before haskell? < 1322492471 450040 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog 1972 < 1322492484 704339 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell 1987-1990 < 1322492491 276755 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Prolog's as old as INTERCAL < 1322492495 341419 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think haskell is "earlier than you'd think", personally < 1322492506 172485 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :< quintopia> prolog predates haskell by over two decades :O < 1322492509 143463 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is surprised that Prolog is that old though < 1322492515 992763 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have guessed... 1983? < 1322492540 390398 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO Prolog is 1995, though. < 1322492569 356801 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect the syntax that haskell and prolog have in common was extant before 1995 < 1322492572 730875 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in prolog < 1322492585 812635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1322492589 245814 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much syntax at all < 1322492594 445397 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm having a hard time of thinking of a single piece < 1322492602 855216 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exact syntax < 1322492638 233153 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea of multiple alternate subcases of a fact/function being built into a syntactical structure < 1322492653 733180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322492665 640517 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1322492688 47960 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not something languages had before prolog that i can tell < 1322492709 331187 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you just mean writing pattern-matching like < 1322492713 122669 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f ... = ... < 1322492714 934176 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f ... = ... < 1322492716 226471 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than like < 1322492718 999923 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = case x of ... < 1322492727 394669 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not being able to define multiple top-level clauses for "f"? < 1322492735 797689 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess < 1322492747 396085 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i dunno what you mean < 1322492756 951541 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the idea of patternmatching defs in general < 1322492786 227446 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways shower time. i'm already running way late. < 1322492839 665462 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shower? < 1322492912 830697 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1322493214 320991 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322493234 177007 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1322493252 539271 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was a weird pingout, pinging out from the webclient while on a desktop computer with a wired connection < 1322493305 358411 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way patternmatching defs work in Prolog is entirely different from the way they work in Haskell, though < 1322493314 40124 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they do the same thing, but for entirely different reasons < 1322493365 461169 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it possible to create a reversible language where only the program /state/ needs to be known to compute the previous one, not the state _and_ the program? < 1322493372 942814 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise that's a kind of vague concept < 1322493383 230699 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversible CAs do that, except they embed the program into the state already, kind of :P < 1322493505 110348 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322493798 930406 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, my name is johny, what the F**K? seems to be forming properly in my head < 1322493809 265236 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which I mean, I'm coming up with a language and it seems good enough to give it the name < 1322494067 704599 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1322494073 49432 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital J on Johny, right? < 1322494075 701724 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322494086 23669 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: probably < 1322494096 812617 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check, if necessary < 1322494121 606277 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1322494231 826250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ** in the name of that language, I mentally pronounce as somewhere between öö and üü < 1322494235 262113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a bit shorter < 1322494428 546459 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the problem with having reversibility based on state alone is that no two different programs can produce the same state < 1322494443 764919 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like I'm edging close to Rice's theorem if I'm not careful < 1322494719 968189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is Rice's theorem? < 1322494744 453984 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice's_theorem < 1322494756 671223 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this context, the problem is basically that you can't compute equality for functions < 1322494817 587943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that one < 1322494913 797064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, a few days ago, there was a Haskell fan flaming OCaml for accepting = on functions (and throwing an exception if you tried to use it) < 1322494923 620358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, for defining < and > on absolutely everything that has an =, even if it's arbitrary < 1322494935 114924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, they're consistent with =, but otherwise arbitrary, in some cases) < 1322495079 31433 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where? (and I agree) < 1322495087 445482 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that thing is a bit hypocritical < 1322495095 454869 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has arbitrary Ord instances too < 1322495104 119115 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beacuse our structures like to use them < 1322495109 521659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in real life < 1322495138 19223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life my structures are giant monsters that eat me. < 1322495141 562345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one advantage of working in a CS department is that you have a nontrivial chance of encountering a Haskell fan < 1322495159 938132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: remember the Bjorn stories? kallisti reminds me of that, just less extreme < 1322495170 459724 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322495183 610266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those? < 1322495201 287589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Bjorn < 1322495207 180 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-13.txt:18:09:15: `log Bjorn < 1322495212 621210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't useful… < 1322495214 137228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Bjorn < 1322495224 161031 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-07-24.txt:03:54:13: The merchant tottered away uneasily, and decided to get a job that involved fewer crazy people. Say, telemarketing. Bjorn voyaged on through the dark for maybe three meters before giving up and resting for the night. < 1322495227 57427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :past elliott: stop being curious < 1322495234 824620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go, it's that sort of thing < 1322495246 64397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Bjorn < 1322495251 542616 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-13.txt:18:07:47: oh, I forgot all about the Bjorn thing < 1322495255 982846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Bjorn < 1322495261 137649 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-07-24.txt:03:52:04: As Bjorn woke the next morning, he was, much to his chagrin, reminded of his exploits-to-be by his least favourite region of the brain, which was whatever part stored memories; Bjorn wasn't really sure how the brain operated, apart from that he wished it wouldn't do so in such an efficient and unforgetting manner. So he trundled off again to the pub, and finally got up the energy, < 1322495271 340204 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that alise was a weird person < 1322495274 102842 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322495298 828417 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322495343 550480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise was better at Bjorn stories than the rest of us < 1322495364 825329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: updersation between itidus21, Vorpal, and kallisdeet < 1322495370 178924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bjorn, sadly, was better at Bjorn stories than himself, but he wished it was worse < 1322495375 285491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(continuing with the fractal theme) < 1322495407 822762 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I think I know how to implement addition in My name is Johny, what the F**K? branch 2, but I'm not sure about multiplication < 1322495420 506410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's always a good sign < 1322495445 945763 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if what I have is a correct implementation of multiplication, I fear that the language may be fairly boring < 1322495466 282212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it obvious? < 1322495477 432699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's correct but non-obvious given esolang knowledge, you've probably found something new < 1322495484 364654 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what obvious? < 1322495489 674619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the multiplication impl < 1322495550 350576 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think so < 1322495557 260132 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ah, I think I know what I need < 1322495570 905797 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, I'm not sure how to make it /mandatory/ < 1322495576 409209 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not, you can write programs easily but boringly < 1322495705 638059 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322495723 7757 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1322495723 413352 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(Z) = (S(Z), Z); < 1322495723 601202 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(S(n)) = < 1322495723 601360 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (r, j) = fact(n); < 1322495723 601477 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (r', j') = times(S(n), r) < 1322495723 601574 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in discard j' = r; < 1322495725 475197 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : r = fact(S(j)) < 1322495727 435273 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (r', S(j)); < 1322495752 163191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is that MNIJWTF? < 1322495759 410113 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: branch 2 branch 1 < 1322495794 584722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, it looks vaguely like Haskell but trying to interpret it as Haskell makes my head spin < 1322495800 150948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a good sign :) < 1322495816 247402 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try ignoring discard...in < 1322495826 83850 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and note that times returns a tuple < 1322495828 569814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I think I know what discard does < 1322495838 466277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it asserts that both values are equal, and then forgets about them < 1322495844 122028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and forgetting about data is otherwise impossible < 1322495845 10248 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only forgets about the LHS < 1322495850 166102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1322495852 710909 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322495854 557500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1322495884 783874 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is mainly, how do I force people to use discard? rather than just doing something like < 1322495892 2733 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(Z) = (S(Z), Z); < 1322495892 192827 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(S(n)) = < 1322495892 192981 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (r, j) = fact(n); < 1322495892 193082 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (r', j') = times(S(n), r) < 1322495892 193181 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (r', (r, j', S(j))); < 1322495904 677048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you basically just thread computations and put all the junk in one value < 1322495920 726359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about making the language typed? < 1322495926 362707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the value is thusly called "the trunk" < 1322495927 42647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, typed lambda calculus)? < 1322495929 789521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. < 1322495965 123531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, that might actually work < 1322495979 714984 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except, ah, no < 1322495989 451945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to invent a monstrously complicated ADT to lump all the junk in one value < 1322496004 179502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not ADT < 1322496009 210935 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(Z) = (S(Z), [Z]); < 1322496009 540811 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(S(n)) = < 1322496009 726994 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (r, j:js) = fact(n); < 1322496009 727173 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (r', j') = times(S(n), r) < 1322496009 727273 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (r', S(j) : r : j' : js); < 1322496012 596135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive type < 1322496012 834345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hereafter called "the trunk" plz < 1322496022 873774 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe if it was the simply typed lambda calculus < 1322496023 519747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but we're trying to get rid of it < 1322496027 459183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the STLC can barely /compute/ anything < 1322496032 383210 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like this to be TC < 1322496039 649770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay then plz name your finished solution "the trunk" < 1322496040 115942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what's the difference? no recursive types? < 1322496066 280831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: elliott_ and I both care deeply about MNIJWTF, we want a truly great language to represent the name < 1322496068 948412 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: STLC just has Q and (A -> B) as types < 1322496071 910116 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where Q just means "anything" < 1322496088 560505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: crazy idea: what about bounding memory usage somehow? < 1322496104 895448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that gets rid of TCness, it still allows the vast majority of practical programs < 1322496114 53900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from interps and similar constructs that absolutely need to be TC < 1322496129 668235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that reminds me, I still need to invent ACK < 1322496143 549079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esoteric programming language that is not TC, but only barel < 1322496145 19325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*barely < 1322496194 238055 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmmm, maybe < 1322496227 104200 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if i made it bounded but infinite? < 1322496228 165413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea is, there are two sorts of entropy; there's minor entropy and major entropy, all operations cost minor entropy, major entropy allows you to ackermann-function your minor entropy but you only have a finite, program-specified, amount) < 1322496232 131543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys we're on topic. < 1322496233 623634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing. < 1322496242 682326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: stop trying to derail us, this channel is even better ontopic than offtopic < 1322496249 264618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not? < 1322496279 399579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was actually just discussing (read: ranting to himself with a witness) an esolang. < 1322496280 617163 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is to say, like, you have aleph_null ram < 1322496299 243626 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if you do f(g(x), h(x)), the computations of g(x) and h(x) can only take half of it < 1322496307 145028 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f gets all of it, because it's a tail call < 1322496310 515017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, umm, wow < 1322496315 308567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that even make sense? < 1322496318 297574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me that makes sense < 1322496329 951672 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, so let's keep thinking about it until it makes even less sense < 1322496364 785597 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322496368 990197 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so the idea would be, make it so that just piling all the junk from multiple calls together ends up using an impossible amount of RAM < 1322496381 474330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322496387 643148 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.e., because you recurse, and then use more than ten times that, or whatever < 1322496396 395550 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the whole function needs RAM n > n for certain inputs < 1322496401 165635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's rejected by the RAM checker < 1322496402 878991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm reminded a bit of Advice < 1322496410 423194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the ICFP esolangs < 1322496432 220221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's basically just Thue-on-trees, except that if the same number of replacements need to be made on both branches of a tree, it doesn't replace on either < 1322496449 174290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a restriction that's perfectly gauged to throw a spanner in the works of typical algorithms < 1322496460 535885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow so I think I've actually figured out my esolang. < 1322496485 848305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my solution to programming in it was to make sure that only one replacement was possible at any given time, so that it'd always be split 1/0 everywhere that mattered and thus avoiding a balanced situation) < 1322496500 158852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that applies to subtrees, too, obviously, or it'd be trivial < 1322496558 355038 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, it's meant to be term rewriting, if it isn't obvious < 1322496560 172577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language, that is < 1322496573 152145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys were talking about entropy without me? < 1322496583 973372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no that's stupid entropy. < 1322496595 671946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yep, I figured it was some sort of match-and-unmatch thing, like Anarchy < 1322496622 892910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("unmatch" is a great name for the operation of creating a data structure from a template) < 1322496826 965245 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I'm quite worried that the junk value always seems to be one of the parameters to the function < 1322496836 199449 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's because these functions are pretty simple so far < 1322496862 366656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, I'm reminded of Unassignable now < 1322496873 365709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding workable junk values there was really hard < 1322496876 928087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* :≠ < 1322496881 867091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I can finally type its actual name < 1322496890 396023 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying fib now, which is interesting because it recurses twice < 1322497033 942059 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, fib is difficult < 1322497119 320486 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(Z) = (0, Z); < 1322497119 646280 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(S(Z)) = (S(Z), S(Z)); < 1322497119 831959 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(S(S(n))) = < 1322497119 832151 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (a, j) = fib(n); < 1322497119 832257 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b, j') = fib(S(n)); < 1322497120 502610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (r, j'') = add(a, b) < 1322497122 277215 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in discard j' = S(j) < 1322497124 248284 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : j'' = a < 1322497126 220342 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : a = fst(fib(j)) < 1322497128 266225 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b = fst(fib(S(j))) < 1322497130 227604 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (r, S(S(j))); < 1322497132 348462 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem there is that there's no such thing as fst < 1322497138 605601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322497254 526868 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ah < 1322497256 361271 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(Z) = (0, Z); < 1322497256 689330 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(S(Z)) = (S(Z), S(Z)); < 1322497256 877076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(S(S(n))) = < 1322497256 877235 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (a, j) = fib(n); < 1322497257 521940 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b, j') = fib(S(n)); < 1322497259 488984 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (r, j'') = add(a, b) < 1322497261 411942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in discard j'' = a < 1322497263 418190 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a, j) = fib(j)) < 1322497265 781411 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b, j') = fst(fib(S(j))) < 1322497267 508206 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (r, S(S(j))); < 1322497269 477206 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's longer than it looks in my editor < 1322497271 440976 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1322497273 405998 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1322497285 836322 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TYBY < 1322497291 6072 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I forgot semicolons < 1322497363 258249 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose there's no problem in letting you use a variable after it's discarded < 1322497378 163337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322497396 763486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you could just put a discard list at the end of a function < 1322497400 311013 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the main problem is that it's easy to cheat discard < 1322497408 563357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by giving it a definition that _isn't_ equivalent < 1322497416 895075 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just happens to work in all the cases you try < 1322497430 339633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be instant runtime crash if they're different at runtime < 1322497440 368549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it's a problem if they're always the same at runtime but defined differently < 1322497446 352286 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's cheating; you can't do that in the "architecture" of the language < 1322497454 342821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322497457 914823 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, on real computers, you don't have to do discard at all! you can just throw away the values < 1322497475 441659 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you can throw away information as long as you can prove you already have it < 1322497483 23185 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same thing as just happening to have the right bits < 1322497494 516334 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to prove you've already computed it redundantly, in essence < 1322497504 167755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322497611 486070 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1322497641 947551 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose it could try and prove it itself via term rewriting < 1322497646 683404 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it would work though < 1322497660 244905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it ship with a machine-readable proof, Coq/Agda-style? < 1322497662 766181 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sort of, prolog style < 1322497663 910491 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you do < 1322497665 379191 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b < 1322497670 796654 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it computes b symbolically < 1322497673 269208 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checks that it's a < 1322497687 260882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's also cheating, but more importantly it's really boring < 1322497692 539498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I think that's another operation that I'm planning for Anarchy < 1322497692 777780 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because proofs are boring to write < 1322497693 920289 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone summarize the last week of #esoteric for me < 1322497696 538559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: OK < 1322497702 195637 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: boring < 1322497704 528855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is that possible? < 1322497705 810549 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for just now < 1322497716 301339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, today it's been interesting, the rest of the week, not so much < 1322497720 479804 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ok, I'll just assume I haven't missed anything then :) < 1322497749 283127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, everything is so much easier when I resist the urge to not make this a term rewriting language. < 1322497767 49351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :term rewriting is great < 1322497774 164647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead just make it an awesome term rewriting language. < 1322497776 864855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/term/graph/g < 1322497784 781021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more languages should do term rewriting < 1322497833 278679 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh! i think i can use this model to do a kind of uniqueness typing < 1322497850 25903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is kind of turning into a spatial and temporal logic graph rewriting language, if that's even a thing. < 1322497928 626910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also nondeterministic because why not. < 1322498119 498201 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ENjA < 1322498121 293951 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this works < 1322498133 592193 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is that you could discard the last world and return the second-last world, which is problematic < 1322498271 219277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, then I thought of a solution but it's just a monad < 1322498296 892535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: monads in general, or a specific monad? < 1322498301 937410 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the io monad < 1322498317 252868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right yes, that became obvious when I clicked on the link < 1322498327 426327 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1322498331 871537 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sprunge isn't the IO monad < 1322498350 707249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, but it becomes clear that IO is how you'd fix it < 1322498364 293449 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322498372 826093 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so boring though, it doesn't use the reversibility at all < 1322498382 791940 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only additional thing you'd need is like < 1322498390 908597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard X in E -- E has to have type IO t for some t < 1322498394 679670 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and X can have any type < 1322498404 818127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can, e.g., read a line from the terminal without having to print it out later or whatever < 1322498416 422304 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(discard X in E has the same type as E, ofc) < 1322498449 658275 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322498462 649365 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322498462 837464 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322498472 780898 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322498502 321852 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: time to see if I can write reverse : [a] -> [a] < 1322498605 231606 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :append([], ys) = < 1322498605 419609 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : discard [] = take(Z, ys) < 1322498605 419780 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (ys, Z); < 1322498605 419878 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :append(x:xs, ys) = < 1322498605 419978 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (xs', j) = append(xs, ys) < 1322498605 706753 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in (x:xs', S(j)); < 1322498610 306816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that can't possibly work, which is a bad sign < 1322498616 648438 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't think of another way to do it < 1322498630 470784 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I also can't see how that's invalid < 1322498703 10645 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I might pop back to branch 1, which is a completely different language < 1322498719 100820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:AlisonDiaz603 < 1322498759 151675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleted (I assume you didn't want protection instead :P) < 1322498772 640504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just noticed a name in a Wikipedia article which is spelt two different ways in two consecutive paragraphs. < 1322498905 146752 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322498912 365792 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, though I'm not as annoyed as oerjan, I think you should contact Graue if spam continues at this rate, at least to give you bot privileges so that you can keep the deletions off recentchanges < 1322498937 761397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: he'd need to give me the option to set/unset bot privs < 1322498949 787927 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why can't he just set bot privileges for all admins? < 1322498950 12347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just to put them on constantly, because then none of my edits would show up in recent changes < 1322498953 617127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322498961 717752 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to do that without giving you crat privs? < 1322498965 952177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also not sure what happens to admin actions marked bot actions < 1322498974 768442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, but it's nontrivial and may require recentish MediaWiki < 1322498979 409909 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1322498983 627561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admins can set/unset all sorts of flags on Wikipedia < 1322498996 135101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(none of the really important ones, but flags like "can use rollback" are routinely toggled by admins) < 1322499007 117588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, whatever, I just think you should contact him to get /something/ done if recent changes continues to be completely clogged with spam < 1322499037 86243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'd really like is the AbuseFilter extension < 1322499043 130016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets admins configure anti-spam rules < 1322499061 206378 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be preferable to our current (terrible) capthca system. < 1322499064 601375 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :captcha < 1322499076 630493 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a feeling that graue has Strong Opinions on the Right Way to do this < 1322499097 611480 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could at least have a better captcha < 1322499104 479211 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admins can create accounts, right? < 1322499114 423474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, for other people as well as themselves < 1322499117 503005 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doesn't matter if we have an image-only captcha < 1322499126 658072 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who can't use it can ask an admin for an account < 1322499129 389931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires an email address, though < 1322499142 975433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the admin doesn't get to see the resulting password, and it has to be sent /somewhere/ < 1322499151 232722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322499157 263281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random fact: for a while, I handled quite a large proportion of Wikipedia's manual account creation) < 1322499194 73216 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that used for? < 1322499207 653165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly usernames that hit the blacklist < 1322499221 393651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like being too similar to another user, or containing blacklisted words, that sort of thing < 1322499228 387427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking to see if the blacklist should be overriden in that case < 1322499245 212565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being too similar to someone who registered six years ago and has never edited, for instance, typically I'd allow that) < 1322499347 747174 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But five years, hell no! < 1322499360 448839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322499576 569258 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone help me forget an idea I just had, please < 1322499589 996831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (("stay in school", "drop out")[int(rand(2))]) < 1322499592 911889 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay in school < 1322499598 78245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: thanks egobot < 1322499607 561220 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print (("stay in school", "drop out")[int(rand(2))])' < 1322499609 656827 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop out < 1322499611 397603 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: HackEgo is cooler. < 1322499615 664663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should trust HackEgo instead. < 1322499626 574241 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow doubt that. < 1322499637 879454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still MY TIME MANAGEMENT SKILLS ARE FUCKING DISAPPEARING AAAAAAH < 1322499640 165437 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 2 < 1322499640 837336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 => 2 < 1322499644 436804 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2 < 1322499644 977345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 2 < 1322499646 20269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I had any in the first place. < 1322499648 924724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now they're more important. < 1322499666 839190 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majority opinion points to "drop out" < 1322499726 257274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRNGs is no way to make important life decisions. < 1322499806 118057 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322499810 331405 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.random.org says 1 so "stay in school" it is < 1322499846 827679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print ( int rand(6 > 0) ? "continue living" : "kill yourself" ) < 1322499847 327499 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill yourself < 1322499849 450198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322499870 645679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at Russian roulette < 1322499874 243489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322499876 158801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1322499876 346396 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322499878 124047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fucked up the code < 1322499882 884262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm just bad at programming < 1322499886 453255 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print(int rand(6 > 0)) < 1322499886 940256 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1322499895 613197 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print(rand(6 > 0)) < 1322499896 146006 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.262715389094414 < 1322499901 730109 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322499907 320958 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 6 greater than 0 < 1322499912 685207 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322499923 753164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print ( (int rand 6) > 0 ? "continue living" : "kill yourself" ) < 1322499924 296868 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue living < 1322499925 697470 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1322499928 206936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1322500039 485814 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int rand 6 < 1322500039 997434 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1322500085 350875 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int rand 6 < 1322500085 883748 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1322500087 660528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int rand 6 < 1322500088 190343 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1322500089 602692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int rand 6 < 1322500090 122872 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1322500106 366725 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all being terrible at distracting me. < 1322500177 685890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo '#!/bin/perl' > bin/russianroulette && echo 'print ( (int rand 6) > 0 ? "continue living" : "kill yourself" )' >> bin/russianroulette && chmod +x bin/russianroulette < 1322500196 497983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/perl' > bin/russianroulette && echo 'print ( (int rand 6) > 0 ? "continue living" : "kill yourself" )' >> bin/russianroulette && chmod +x bin/russianroulette < 1322500198 521994 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322500207 338594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`russianroulette < 1322500207 532824 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/russianroulette < 1322500210 831786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO < 1322500211 19373 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: /hackenv/bin/russianroulette: /bin/perl: bad interpreter: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/russianroulette: Success < 1322500227 280237 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322500233 330453 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Success < 1322500289 897586 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322500312 214155 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: success < 1322500320 989979 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322500339 943354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: monqy :elliott < 1322500349 696465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322500352 745671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1322500366 295753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zah < 1322500375 500192 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of success, I finished the python yesterday/lastnight < 1322500417 195122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that means no more for a while. will likely have to do c++ next quarter though :( why is everything bad < 1322500428 388670 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the one hand, Java was slow, bloated, and not too portable. On the other hand, Inferno was quick, small, portable*, and marketed by AT&T. So naturally Java became popular." < 1322500454 872772 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inferno? that any good? < 1322500479 483932 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system) < 1322500501 294465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetris excitement < 1322501196 846203 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, talk about Feather < 1322501752 972127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that wasn't quick! < 1322502725 204581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: obviously he wrote an IRC client in Feather < 1322502728 400384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discussed in the pass. < 1322502730 228184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1322502731 913627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the passt < 1322502764 962409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the Feather inerpretre that's written in Feather. < 1322502775 251120 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: confirm/deny < 1322502802 309718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably too insane to do either. < 1322502805 851588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322502808 570866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ^ < 1322503580 578754 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :is prototype inheritance in JS a real, built-in language fearture? < 1322503583 924857 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322503587 366956 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a stupid hack? < 1322503654 33624 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript prototype inheritance is a language feature. I'm not sure how that's related to whether it's a stupid hack or not. < 1322503738 164615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: /all/ Feather interpreters are written in Feather < 1322503744 529280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they weren't, they wouldn't be Feather interpreters, by definition < 1322503767 518063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this confused me for a bit, before I realised that you could write a Feather interp as a polyglot between Feather and some other language < 1322503773 660536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as long as everything had the same meaning, it'd work fine < 1322503850 564086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322503855 853558 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: But is it in the language itself or just in the runtime that could be altered? How is it different from prototype inheritance implemented in C? Would this make C object oriented? :D < 1322503866 332266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realize that doesn't really make any sense at all right? < 1322503876 270843 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: (a) it is part of the language itself. it must be implemented in the runtime, of course, like all language features. < 1322503877 2931 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking because I have an argument with guy that states that JS is legit OO language < 1322503887 951612 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: (b) C does not have prototypes... < 1322503891 83120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there is a reason that Feather drives people who attempt to understand it crazy < 1322503900 66648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're beginning to see the edges of it < 1322503902 60079 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: of course JS is an object-oriented language. < 1322503907 996322 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Do you know of Self? < 1322503916 945537 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322503926 84756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason it's so maddenning is that you're constantly struggling with the issue of whether Feather makes sense or not < 1322503934 842137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: also, you can do OO quite well in C < 1322503941 667380 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know taht < 1322503951 405139 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does not make C an OO language < 1322503954 876404 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's my point < 1322503957 151804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even setup vtables by hand and get it working exactly like a saner version of C++ if you like < 1322503988 703840 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: JavaScript has language support for objects with self-reference and constructors. JavaScript has built-in language support for prototypes via the .prototype functionality. < 1322503989 324240 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've read a book about it < 1322503999 930697 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unquestionably a real object-oriented language based on prototypical inheritance. < 1322504022 931159 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not a very good language in general, but that's an orthogonal issue. < 1322504035 905783 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: understood < 1322504040 521163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how does JS do delegation, or the equivalent? I seem to remember something like making the prototype a function that looks at the superobject's prototype < 1322504062 595664 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't remember exactly how it works; I've tried to forget as much JS as possible. < 1322504067 470843 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ejohn.org/blog/simple-javascript-inheritance/ < 1322504073 754310 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is just completely wrong < 1322504091 386557 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: That's just syntactic sugar. < 1322504094 472231 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could write OO programs in C with less syntactic clutter < 1322504095 147856 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1322504097 79267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: why do you hate JS as much as you do? I don't understand it well enough to truly hate it < 1322504103 181243 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half syntactic sugar for delegation, half attempting to make it look like class-based inheritance. < 1322504128 563333 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't really hate it, it's just not very pleasant to use; a large part of that is because browser APIs, especially the DOM, are terrible. < 1322504133 929373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, class-based inheritance is a special case of prototype-based inheritance < 1322504134 119654 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But also its scoping is awful. < 1322504144 979068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: isn't it block-scoped? < 1322504147 899692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes? < 1322504150 336670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see what you mean < 1322504160 664109 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1322504162 329569 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's function-scoped < 1322504169 497644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1322504173 398633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1322504176 284166 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for (var i = ...; ...; ...) { ... }; /* surprise, i is still in scope! */ < 1322504185 924691 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and any previous "i" in the function overwritten) < 1322504200 556951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about {for (var i = …; …; …) { … };} /* is i still in scope here? */ < 1322504206 456618 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's valid < 1322504207 743799 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do < 1322504210 700193 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(function() { ... })() < 1322504212 334166 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for closures < 1322504214 742835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1322504223 291699 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I dislike about JS is how lax and implicit its coercions are < 1322504226 297971 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conversions, too < 1322504237 498111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that would be a fun use for C++ lambda syntax: [](){ … }() < 1322504246 542151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although {} works just as well in C++ < 1322504262 428690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that's just typical dynamic language typing syndrome < 1322504267 636965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it's endemic to both JS and PHP < 1322504291 971601 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Python and Ruby don't suffer from it < 1322504296 879421 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perl sort of does, but it's at least consistent about it < 1322504304 775544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl uses a different solution to the problem < 1322504308 682657 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it separates its string and number operators strictly < 1322504317 714677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python and Ruby make sure that values are always clear on their own type < 1322504319 977469 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some languages, such as Perl, began as scripting languages[3] but were developed into programming languages suitable for broader purposes. Other similar languages – frequently interpreted, memory-managed, or dynamic – have been described as "scripting languages" for these similarities, even if they are more commonly used for applications programming. They are usually not called "scripting languages" by their own users." < 1322504324 206166 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Perl users don't call it a scripting language? < 1322504324 647131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Perl makes sure that contexts are always clear on their own type < 1322504334 234953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I call it a scripting language when I use it for scripting < 1322504343 151179 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322504343 641160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like TAEB, it doesn't really feel like I'm using a scripting language, though < 1322504360 826872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like I'm using a not-really-designed-for-scripting subset of a scripting language < 1322504367 63693 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks Perl is probably okay for scripting, but wouldn't use it for anything non-scripty. /me also considers it a flaw when a language is only good at one < 1322504385 895761 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, so I moved it. Not an admin tho so history will look weird. Elfguy 20:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC) < 1322504386 93549 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--[[Talk:Scripting language]] < 1322504389 491036 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322504392 585004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: perl does have pretty good scoping rules though. < 1322504399 40476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in regard to the above. < 1322504403 435197 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about JS scoping < 1322504404 177996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nowadays < 1322504413 10734 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is one of the few modern languages with proper dynamically-scoped variables < 1322504414 410147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took multiple tries to get it right < 1322504430 528753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Perl did what it usually does, and put every sort of scoping it could think of into the language < 1322504432 858901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I believe Python is function-scoped as well for local variables. < 1322504446 872401 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1322504453 299807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1322504454 112405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322504457 732679 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least variables can't be referenced before definition < 1322504458 176733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :package scope, dynamic scope, lexical scope, you can even have truly global scope if you like (this requires you to name your variables starting with a control character) < 1322504460 359402 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in js they're just undefined) < 1322504466 84660 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least it doesn't /pretend/ to have a declaration keyword (var) < 1322504480 676974 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: control character? seriously? < 1322504488 771023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes; there's sugar to write it in ASCII < 1322504496 586757 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sugar? < 1322504502 774141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Python is sometimes less strict than Perl, mainly regarding variable declaration (or lack thereof) < 1322504502 963777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :${^This_starts_with_control_T} < 1322504504 95557 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-40.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322504509 307105 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1322504510 517559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's stored as a literal control-T internally < 1322504519 291120 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nothing's looser than strict/warningsless perl < 1322504543 741788 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, it's 2011; why doesn't perl have a flag to enable both strict and warnings? < 1322504550 737670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can put a literal control-T in the source, if you really want to < 1322504572 159152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I believe they want it to be module-specific. This is why the -w flag is discouraged. < 1322504576 580120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: because scripts where you want strict and warnings, which is ones that are longer than oneliners, are scripts where there's no big loss in writing "use strict; use warnings;" < 1322504593 774550 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the loss is that it takes time and annoys me :P < 1322504593 966444 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because -w is applied globally. < 1322504595 717087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas for the really insane golfing, poetry, etc, you probably want them off < 1322504598 711684 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it is? seriously? < 1322504603 775860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322504614 211575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: are you muddling it with -W, which is very very global? < 1322504622 754148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1322504630 711013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought -w turned on warnings in the perl interpreter < 1322504646 907022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not a module-specific thing. < 1322504654 205113 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate js fanboys < 1322504657 764966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-w sets the global variable ${^W} < 1322504658 8797 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :anc C++ fanboys < 1322504663 401185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which turns on warnings < 1322504668 612758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yes? < 1322504669 342573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be turned on and off scopely as usual < 1322504673 63080 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, especially, PHP fanboys < 1322504674 232233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that most modules don't start "no warnings;" < 1322504683 216035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1322504687 19360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so because -w changes the default warning setting from off to on, it affects them too < 1322504699 924275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-W turns on warnings regardless of "use warnings;" or "no warnings;" or ${^W} or anything < 1322504706 388327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322504746 301859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, you can golf ${^W} down to $^W because the name's one char long, and further to $ followed by a literal control-W) < 1322504759 48505 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322504764 580186 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larry -Wall < 1322504783 751629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: incidentally, aside from it being a requirement for certain uses of Getopt and $_ hacks, I haven't really used dynamic scope much in Perl. < 1322504786 237622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what -a does < 1322504794 469858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would you turn on automatic line-ending handling twice? < 1322504801 369214 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's good for configuration settings, generally < 1322504807 540433 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, whatever stdout is < 1322504818 2025 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know the options for Larry? < 1322504819 49627 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp puts it to good use like that < 1322504842 439482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in the Crawl codebase, I've seen a class whose objects are dynamically-scoped booleans, using RAII < 1322504854 852122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really confused the person who asked me for help with it, because they didn't understand it < 1322504864 325252 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch < 1322504867 957277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the code were RAIIing everywhere, it'd probably be fine, but it's the only bit of RAII I've seen in the code < 1322504875 329801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just makes it more confusing < 1322504881 790177 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Awk Traps < 1322504881 983641 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Accustomed awk users should take special note of the following: < 1322504881 983808 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : · A Perl program executes only once, not once for each input line. You can do an implicit loop with "-n" or "-p". < 1322504897 61573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-p is great for golfing < 1322504904 668801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -a turns on autosplit mode. I'm not sure if someone else has already said this or not. < 1322504907 373388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that many programs, you actually write #!perl -p at the start < 1322504916 794183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nope < 1322504919 371551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hmm, I thought that was -s, perhaps I was confused < 1322504926 724869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION perldoc perlrun < 1322504929 403942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just find it funny that it has to be pointed out that lines run once < 1322504944 132280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, -a is autospit, -s parses command-line arguments < 1322504947 289518 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not "man perlrun" < 1322504955 349938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: plenty of languages have an implicit loop < 1322504972 615117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because I'm used to perldoc nowadays for Perl-related things because it has all the manpages and more stuff beyond that < 1322504987 554181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use perldoc -f to get a section of perlfunc, you can't do that with man, for instance < 1322504994 366797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perldoc and man produce identical output for the manpages < 1322505002 23787 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not identical < 1322505003 505927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think; reasonably identical, at least < 1322505014 431146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the wrapping's different < 1322505028 22533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer right-ragged to ASCII-justified < 1322505060 129590 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the status bar is different, more importantly < 1322505064 658733 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you prefer that, set man to do that < 1322505088 409534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh right, man's overriding my less settings, perlrun isn't < 1322505088 598732 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, both are ragged-right here < 1322505096 90429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, hmm, indeed < 1322505107 453372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man's normally justified, I just assumed it'd be for perl docs too < 1322505126 447832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the manpages are actually generated as manpages, not via nroff < 1322505136 664273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, hmm < 1322505143 567166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'open 0;print<0>' > quine.pl && perl quine.pl < 1322505146 262807 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :open 0;print<0> < 1322505160 808192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally pure guys. < 1322505180 680772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ l `man -w perlrun` < 1322505197 35339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it looks like nroff < 1322505214 812329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" For nroff, turn off justification. Always turn off hyphenation; it makes < 1322505216 125143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" way too many mistakes in technical documents. < 1322505219 829579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1322505232 91367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like some workaround for nroff specifically in pod2man < 1322505242 759288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's conditioned on nroff being the implementation used, and wouldn't happen in groff or troff < 1322505248 401674 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the fastest way to forget how to write assembly code? < 1322505253 621173 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm quine.pl < 1322505255 867137 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322505259 102943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in which language? < 1322505267 693055 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spanish < 1322505280 200686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd have to learn how to write asm in spanish first < 1322505284 77055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to forget it < 1322505295 148290 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322505340 967366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (what did you actually mean by that question?) < 1322505400 361667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which asm variant, I think I meant < 1322505400 586221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, x86 asm, 6502 asm, etc < 1322505429 318508 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86(-64, ostensibly) < 1322505435 807948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you wanted to forget asm for a particular platform, you could just learn it for another platform that's much nicer < 1322505440 232076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go work on SPARC asm or something for a while < 1322505448 336556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want to forget x86 asm, incidentally? < 1322505480 253254 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to prevent me from trying to write a horrible thing < 1322505492 140779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be easier to fix the reason rather than the immediate problem < 1322505492 331314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, err, uh-oh < 1322505492 331471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you'll fail < 1322505503 107095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if I demoralize elliott_ enough, that'll have the same effect with less pain) < 1322505524 13223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: writing a horrible thing will make you a worthless human being, even if you succeed; especially if you succeed, possibly more so if you fail < 1322505545 309755 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, now what'll happen is I'll end up writing it anyway, and then I'll get all sad because you're mean < 1322505550 857798 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE < 1322505558 777830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you don't want to make me mean, do you? < 1322505568 527476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even retroactively? especially not retroactively? < 1322505582 86225 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!feather ais523->mean = true < 1322505591 754173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks nothing like Feather < 1322505602 703406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to <<= me with a slightly modified ais523 < 1322505604 684639 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change Feather's syntax, can't you? < 1322505607 430346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably through a wrapper function, to prevent a time loop < 1322505618 365549 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!feather loads the Alternate Standard Feather Library which is more popular nowadays < 1322505623 453485 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reskins the syntax < 1322505625 293101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, yes, I guess, but at some point it stops being Feather, and starts being a different language with similar semantics but different syntax < 1322505662 373818 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: changing <<= to = and adding sugar for record access doesn't seem that drastic < 1322505684 199232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess so < 1322505689 158539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be negative sugar < 1322505696 600111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you would need just a space there for record access, typically < 1322505714 43571 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the future, people like to put spaces in identifiers < 1322505725 639645 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that was added to the ASFL due to popular demand < 1322505726 696670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hmm, I wonder if the value of ais523 mean would be shared with other values < 1322505727 341945 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :retroactively < 1322505754 611355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do "ais523 mean <<= true" (and probably get yourself stuck in a time loop), but if it was sharing with other booleans at the time, that'd be equivalent to "false <<= true", which, umm, is probably a bad idea < 1322505766 530949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is assuming you have sugar for false and true, which you probably do) < 1322505782 649201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :false <<= true looks set to be even more fun than false become: true < 1322505805 75850 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you do, e.g., x <<= [x] where [x] is the singleton list of x? < 1322505813 820811 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather rapidly allocates memory? < 1322505816 853945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't recurse < 1322505826 275426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a list containing the metaold value of x < 1322505837 811672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, that point in the code would be evaluated again, unless something stopped it < 1322505847 395112 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is there any way to make a cyclic structure in Feather? < 1322505861 370237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<= is incredibly unsafe; if it doesn't change some previous control flow behaviour of the program, you get a time loop < 1322505882 436878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people will probably normally use sugar around it to use some safer operation, such as "add currently nonexisting method" < 1322505908 734761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the trick would probably be to use the arbitrary number < 1322505910 36308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/people/ais523/ < 1322505928 512890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a true cyclic structure, but you can have a retroactively cyclic structure < 1322505952 292699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case my 4D logical graph rewriting language is going to.. what's the word.. baller. < 1322505956 27915 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322505969 416820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Feather concurrency sounds like fun < 1322505974 550406 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone taking part in ioccc ? < 1322505978 138136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, any test you perform to try to demonstrate it not cyclic, it retroactively becomes just cyclic enough to prevent that test working; if you do something that would be an infinite loop on a cyclic structure, you get an infinite loop) < 1322505981 983240 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Gregor and ais523 < 1322505983 63012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I am, Gregor is < 1322505990 692685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do feel like writing something in C < 1322506004 196436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not sure if I want to write obfuscated C, or why I would bother trying to make an entry. < 1322506013 792334 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a fun concurrency strategy: if conflicts occur, retroactively use a different ordering of threads instead < 1322506019 503482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG I missed Featherchat??? < 1322506024 803138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: brilliant < 1322506027 872339 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fame and glory < 1322506032 225065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I'm not going to even attempt concurrency in Feather < 1322506035 417250 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write whatever in C according to the program you want to write specifically < 1322506042 494869 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: May as well not bother, as I'm going to win. < 1322506046 32276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of like trying to do concurrency in Haskell, only worse < 1322506049 996882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there are multiple winners < 1322506064 161432 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Only one "best in show" (or whatever they call it) < 1322506065 923937 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: concurrency in haskell works brilliantly < 1322506069 953786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not aiming for best in show < 1322506071 501967 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyvm < 1322506078 138030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for small program, and rules abuse < 1322506095 539143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: indeed; but you need external libraries, or else for the compiler to deduce it as an optimisation < 1322506100 823453 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, I want them to invent a category for me. < 1322506104 228690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(external = not writable in Haskell) < 1322506105 572269 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But failing that, I'll take best in show X-P < 1322506115 265336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by "concurrency", I just meant lock-step or whatever < 1322506118 272366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not native threads < 1322506122 481700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right < 1322506127 955935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to change the entire execution model of the program < 1322506135 971540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the worrying thing is, this is Feather, and you can actually /do/ that < 1322506141 159717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in any case my 4D logical graph rewriting language is going to.. what's the word.. baller. < 1322506149 327072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphs are nondimensional you eejit. < 1322506168 785551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay fine well what's a graph except now it has distances in a 4D space. < 1322506186 44270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a labeled-edge graph? < 1322506199 962139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(do the positions matter in 4D? or just the distances?) < 1322506207 593442 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? a labeled-edge GRAPH you say? < 1322506210 716644 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, distances? < 1322506211 853412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1322506214 328700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the position I think? < 1322506223 296645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just distances? both? -shrug- < 1322506223 968509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphs... don't have distances inherently. < 1322506236 221820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: indeed; but you can certainly define a sort of graph that does < 1322506236 653983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: believe it or not I am actually familiar with graph theory < 1322506245 243452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are in fact useful < 1322506247 11162 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just going to be assigning labels to edges based on some embedding of the graph. < 1322506254 471025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's why I said labeled-edge graph < 1322506268 716910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1322506333 110351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, but why 4D? < 1322506337 702925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking only distances or relevant, so it may not really have 3 spatial dimensions. < 1322506345 579126 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 = 4 < 1322506381 493022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: going for reversability, the 4th dimension would be forward and backward in computation steps. < 1322506385 276123 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is that the only thing actually having an embedding somewhere is going to change is the fact that the triangle inequality imposes limits. < 1322506393 575649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, um... < 1322506432 538584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nah, if you know nearly all the sides and diagonals of a hyper-n-gon, then that's going to lock in the location of the points, thus restricting the other sides and diagonals < 1322506446 121467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value of n depends on the number of dimensions involved < 1322506508 533862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case whether or not it actually corresponds to a 3 dimensional space is irrelevant. I don't think I'm going to keep track of position but instead just do distance relationships. < 1322506534 125832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as ais523 says, you need to know position to tell if the distance relationships are meaningful. < 1322506559 37324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningful in what sense? can't I just not care? < 1322506575 749841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you possibly can not care < 1322506576 301514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but then why call them distances at all? < 1322506582 857186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is wondering about whether or not you have reason to care < 1322506584 783462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just assigning arbitrary numbers to edges. < 1322506596 174107 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: argh, I'm trying to think of how the infinite division memory model works and it's so confusing < 1322506611 848848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, do you have a reason for them to act like distances? and if so, is it just triangle inequality, or do you need more than that? < 1322506621 197699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really no. < 1322506635 249499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, BtW, your hyper-n-gon thing might just be a special case of the triangle inequality? < 1322506636 619180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason for them to be distances. < 1322506641 196903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *general case? < 1322506652 349096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is, sort-of, but can lead to equalities as well as inequalities < 1322506653 351416 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = 1 : f(x) is easy to reject, because f^M(x) = 1 + f^M(x) < 1322506665 38459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think the triangle inequality results in it? < 1322506669 151756 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The worst example of this sort of thing in my lifetime, and arguably in the entire history of science, has been the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) panic. Now that the wheels are falling off that juggernaut, I’m starting to hear ordinary people around me wonder how I knew it was bullshit and hot air so much in advance…" --esr < 1322506674 893449 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets popcorn < 1322506692 188634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR is a global warming denialist? < 1322506697 643559 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this surprises you? < 1322506698 321450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not massively surprised < 1322506705 841707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have been surprised by the opposite either, though < 1322506725 270649 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of an idiotic far-right libertarian position; if esr doesn't have it, you should be surprised < 1322506739 938327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are idiotic far-right libertarian positions that contradict each other < 1322506751 231768 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1322506783 245699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've discovered that the idiotic far-right libertarian at my school is a) crazy and b) probably an actual sociopath. < 1322506810 944025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the nodes corresponding to a physical space was just an interesting idea, but the main proof of concept is the non-deterministic time-based shenanigans (we seem to be doing a lot of those lately) < 1322506823 607906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lately'. < 1322506824 423758 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rhetoric that mixes science with the tropes of eschatological panic." actual quote < 1322506826 69639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, especially as I was playing Braid yesterday < 1322506838 979405 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lately? < 1322506844 716726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather transcends the timeline; ais has always not being developing it. < 1322506848 478361 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322506854 984751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I work on it sometimes < 1322506863 144787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even did NEF just fine without getting very bad < 1322506864 931527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*very mad < 1322506866 62761 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is Braid actually worth playing? I've been put off by how pretentious the developer is < 1322506868 72102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure it's useful < 1322506876 551389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I see '523' as ais' last name now.) < 1322506887 667275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's, umm, reasonably pretentious plotwise, but the graphics are pretty and the puzzles are interesting < 1322506898 535366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "no filler" rule is really grating, though < 1322506902 719581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while you start wishing for filler < 1322506905 816813 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322506924 72517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also very difficult < 1322506938 897530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is arguably good, as it means you won't reach the ending, which is the most pretentious part < 1322506956 588864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322506962 472155 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322506982 880524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, come on, you're meant to join in there. < 1322506983 97536 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can AII be a metaphor for globalisation please. < 1322507005 810779 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, after you finish the single-player campaign, "IT WAS GLOBALISATION ALL ALONG" pops up and you have to "OH I GET IT" to get back to the menu. < 1322507011 745389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322507012 399447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would a 3D space be easier to manage if I restricted the graph from forming cycles with its present edges. (think of present edges as just... normal graph edges) < 1322507022 693582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322507026 265531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Except clicking "OH I GET IT" just makes it change into "VERY CLEVER". < 1322507028 202954 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed another thing in Super ASCII MZX Town game < 1322507034 921173 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And you have to click it again. < 1322507047 718382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322507072 553415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :< kallisti> ais523: would a 3D space be easier to manage if I restricted the graph from forming cycles with its present edges. (think of present edges as just... normal graph edges) < 1322507075 159680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[error] Closing Link: 147.188.254.189 (No more connections allowed in your connection class) < 1322507076 630803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322507100 131273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: get off the internet, low-class scum. < 1322507104 520567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes, in fact you could do it even in a 2D space, but then you basically have a tree, not a graph (it becomes an actual tree if you give it a root) < 1322507138 180696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, so a tree is like... a graph without cycles? < 1322507147 686667 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1322507160 334698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that is the graph-theoretic definition of "tree", yes < 1322507175 730096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't forget it's connected!) < 1322507177 442678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rooting it gives you the programming-language definition of "tree" < 1322507184 478642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK, it's not a tree if it isn't connected < 1322507187 828306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be connected to be a tree < 1322507194 471392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's a forest (actual technical term) < 1322507196 757787 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No more connections allowed in your connection class" < 1322507197 99578 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In English, this means the server is full for people like you, at least for now. People from different providers might still be able to connect. You might see this sometimes on servers that you were able to connect to just recently. Try a different port on the same server (other than 6667) or try a different server for a while. < 1322507199 431019 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how helpful < 1322507199 862508 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made barrier monad transform now. newtype BarrierT f b m t = BarrierT { runBarrierT :: m (Either t (f, b -> BarrierT f b m t)) }; < 1322507210 809352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"people like me" < 1322507212 286610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they exist? < 1322507215 82347 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322507234 885500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure a tree has to have a root to be a tree in computer science? seems kind of arbitrary. < 1322507247 334809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I know they typically do... < 1322507270 79914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's not arbitrary; it's hard to define an ADT without one < 1322507276 317665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm talking about the usual recursive definition in terms of trees having a possible value (perhaps only if they have no branches), and 0-n branches < 1322507279 940325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that naturally leads to a route < 1322507287 779045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*root < 1322507309 829007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine a sort of "doubly-linked tree" which wouldn't need one, but it probably wouldn't be very useful given the typical applications of trees in CS < 1322507319 188696 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't encompass, e.g. data Tree a = Branch (Tree a) (Tree a) | Leaf a < 1322507324 20118 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because n is fixed < 1322507333 899487 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can imagine a sort of "doubly-linked tree" which wouldn't need one, but it probably wouldn't be very useful given the typical applications of trees in CS < 1322507338 501415 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the closest thing is a tree zipper < 1322507341 107561 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which /is/ very useful < 1322507341 440893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly haven't considered efficiency at all for this language. < 1322507351 426385 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :list zippers are what we use instead of doubly-linked lists, after all < 1322507374 961703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: right, indeed; I was talking about not needing a root, rather than not having the links back (which are potentially useful for reasons unrelated to rooting) < 1322507390 489463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewriting nodes based on whether or not they satisfy logical predicates in a huge graph that never shrinks is probably not going to be fast. < 1322507403 895373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the "n is fixed" is a special case; that's a binary tree, which is a case of a tree where n = 0 or 2 < 1322507443 58458 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, but the n=2 case has no value < 1322507458 969824 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what about data Tree a = Branch a (Tree a) (Tree a) | Leaf? that has a value only when n=2 < 1322507501 513371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if I restrict the kinds of predicates that one can use, then I can make the lookup algorithm fairly efficient.. < 1322507517 438630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: a conditional value is fine as well, I think < 1322507526 247966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditional on n, or maybe even on something else < 1322507543 162042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: part of the reason I haven't implemented eodermdrome is that I can't think of an efficient way to do it < 1322507570 437202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in particular I intend to restrict the rewrite rules so that subgraphs cannot be replaced in one rewrite. < 1322507591 695507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, single nodes are subgraphs I guess. < 1322507595 818 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't oklopol come up with an efficient way? Phantom_Hoover? < 1322507605 154920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think oklopol was working on it, but I can't remember the outcome < 1322507620 299768 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the efficient way has been well-known in here for ages. < 1322507636 727263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can we delete [[Excela]] so people stop vandalising it? < 1322507638 72565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, come to think of it, indexing by degree, and context degree up to n levels, would be pretty efficient < 1322507643 341151 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should probably protect it, anyway < 1322507657 27160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if it gets spammed much more, I'll put an appropriate protection level on < 1322507660 301031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it anons or registered users? < 1322507663 386522 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just got spammed < 1322507666 328094 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Excela&action=history < 1322507672 917929 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's going to stop < 1322507674 876717 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's registered users < 1322507686 118811 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's every three days, roughly < 1322507687 387961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking I could probably make it efficient if I restrict the kinds of rewrite rules and predicates that can be expressed, and by using other data structures besides a graph in the implementation, at the expense of more memory overhead. < 1322507692 340272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you just made me revert your revert by mistake! < 1322507693 810077 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes more often < 1322507695 280245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reverts < 1322507697 220922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a language that, as far as I can tell, does not ever free memory. < 1322507718 936647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless a garbage collection or manual memory management scheme can be created... but I have no idea how that would work. < 1322507735 319881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: with those spambots, in the past, all the spamming they've done has been confined to one article, but moves to a different one if you protect it < 1322507766 38751 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: most modern languages never free memory < 1322507788 222446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..wha? is this some weird technical distinction I'm missing? < 1322507800 870022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure they do. < 1322507808 243140 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they don't < 1322507816 919951 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python has no free(), Perl has no free() < 1322507817 721242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: do you mean "return memory to the OS" by "free"? < 1322507820 197835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby has no free() < 1322507822 462968 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has no free() < 1322507826 406662 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp and Scheme have no free() < 1322507832 933612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, you mean "don't have an explicit command to free" < 1322507833 747094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/language/implementation/ < 1322507838 26722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I mean "don't free" < 1322507847 615500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: $x = undef; will free the previous thing that $x referred to if it was the only reference < 1322507852 36877 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that most implementations optimise things by discarding memory that they can prove won't be referenced in the future is irrelevant tot he language < 1322507858 566665 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it won't < 1322507865 427822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and even run its finalisers < 1322507870 684223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/language/implementation/ --debate solved < 1322507873 625265 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, finalisers are usually implementation-specific < 1322507878 705519 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unpredictable < 1322507890 175398 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I bet Jython won't run finalisers if you do x = None < 1322507892 658709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they're part of the language in Perl 5 and predictable; this sort of thing may be /why/ it only has one impl < 1322507894 86743 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't use refcounting < 1322507903 570898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Python even have finalisers? < 1322507910 603665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322507915 993666 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :__del__ < 1322507920 608394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, is "finaliser" or "destructor" the more common name nowadays?) < 1322507929 140651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructor I believe < 1322507931 760560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I see the most. < 1322507941 364842 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finaliser < 1322507947 886461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: didn't oklopol come up with an efficient way? Phantom_Hoover? < 1322507957 70532 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructor is Python jargon meaning something else, I think, which is why kallisti might see it more often < 1322507965 395259 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly I always see "finaliser" in memory-management texts < 1322507979 360704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no I see it in my Java and C++ classes as well. < 1322507980 351778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concluded that implementing Ullman's algorithm with appropriate specialisations would get the match stage (the real time sink) down to polynomial time. < 1322507999 406752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally go with Java terminology for javaish-OO stuff, bceause Java's implementation on the javaish-OO world is quite large < 1322508005 854665 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought there was something simpler than that < 1322508014 388057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we really need a name for the Java/C++/C#ish OO to distinguish it from Smalltalky OO) < 1322508018 128255 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, they're called finalisers in java < 1322508022 373834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I know < 1322508029 240396 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, destructors are something subtly different, I believe < 1322508029 569679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I used that name without really thinking < 1322508037 92601 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're things you run explicitly < 1322508040 592391 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. C++ < 1322508042 874140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you aren't meant to use finalisers in Java ever nowadays < 1322508045 780924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Ullman's algorithm optimises subgraph matching down to polynomial if you have constant subgraphs. < 1322508049 379809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're so unpredictable < 1322508054 34661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the case in Eodermdrome. < 1322508064 397566 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's usually called class-based OO < 1322508066 335493 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why unpredictable? just because GC is? < 1322508069 141172 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: smalltalk is class-based < 1322508077 46807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1322508083 804641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. I was thinking of self and friends. < 1322508088 573056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in Java, there's no guarantee that they're ever actually run at all < 1322508097 800667 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure; that doesn't seem relevant to me < 1322508106 228507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if it's purely GC-related < 1322508108 194639 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC's finalisers have the same property and they're used with abandon < 1322508108 674458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it probably is < 1322508138 439694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hmm, what context do GHC finalizers run in? some suitable IO monad that's made to happen at an arbitrary time relative to other events? < 1322508159 871057 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/4.4.1.0/doc/html/Foreign-ForeignPtr-Safe.html < 1322508173 702625 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your question is incoherent and contains type errors, so i'll just link you docs instead :P < 1322508181 888677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it contains type errors < 1322508190 312166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that they aren't Haskell < 1322508201 587951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: your mouth is a type error < 1322508206 820961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1322508221 570629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're run via the FFI < 1322508222 621004 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322508223 753588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/4.4.1.0/doc/html/System-Mem-Weak.html also has finalisers < 1322508225 646936 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no they're not < 1322508251 900505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A finalizer is represented as a pointer to a foreign function…" < 1322508263 629136 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK, but that's not relevant: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/4.4.1.0/doc/html/Foreign-Concurrent.html < 1322508275 884817 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the System.Mem.Weak finalisers are just actions too < 1322508349 835865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer is, they have to return a marshallable type, or an IO of a marshallable type < 1322508361 449186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making them pure functions is obviously ridiculous, so in practice, they're IO actions < 1322508426 510502 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys if you're libraring can you see if you can find an implementation of that algorithm. < 1322508475 608981 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1322508479 225462 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so the answer is, they have to return a marshallable type, or an IO of a marshallable type < 1322508483 428452 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is wrong and/or makes no sense < 1322508511 106379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I saw type FinalizerPtr a = FunPtr (Ptr a -> IO ()) < 1322508522 64071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then looked up the definition of FunPtr, and saw its restriction on types it accepted < 1322508533 916931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and missed that FinalizerPtr had a stronger restriction (specificlaly, that it returned IO ()) < 1322508535 243778 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you read wrongly < 1322508553 107114 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's true that the types are always used that way in finaliser use < 1322508556 711559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: look, it's pointless linking me to docs if you're going to disagree with everything that I glean from them < 1322508560 966807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I'm wrong < 1322508561 782357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's quite irrelevant, since the FinalizerPtr takes a Ptr < 1322508573 732046 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's irrelevant whether the a being finalised is marshallable or not < 1322508591 133065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was relevant < 1322508595 729758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking merely about the return value < 1322508597 498504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is IO () < 1322508597 829605 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I link you to documentation because I can't think of any way to answer your question because it doesn't make any sense; I can just ignore false things you deduce from it if you want *shrugs* < 1322508639 365162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the return value is IO (), the argument isn't IO anything, thus the finalizer is an IO action < 1322508643 132753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what the question was in the first place < 1322508654 358563 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, "the argument isn't IO anything"? < 1322508721 505136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: a function of type IO a -> IO a isn't really an IO action < 1322508729 986526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions aren't IO actions < 1322508735 89286 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO actions look like IO a for some a < 1322508748 822204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1322508749 2301 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(id m :: IO a) for some m, a is certainly an IO action < 1322508753 71788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminology clash? < 1322508757 994844 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (IO a -> IO a) is certainly a function from an IO action to an IO action < 1322508773 85783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IO /value/ is what's referred to as the action < 1322508776 194690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just the typical non-Haskeller mistake of assuming something like (IO a) is a "function of 0 arguments" < 1322508787 421869 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus assuming that if (IO a) is an action then (... -> IO a) must be too < 1322508793 631489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that's how I usually see that mistake being made < 1322508802 855869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I might have made it based on different reasoning < 1322508807 520619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because of the whole do-sugar thing < 1322508823 33262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because you can >>= onto a function of type x -> IO a < 1322508831 818348 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322508834 436158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a behaviour of >>= rather than of IO < 1322508840 199300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like a behaviour of IO unless you concentrate < 1322508847 792369 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, can anyone here get behind ACM paywalls who isn't too legalistic to share the spoils? < 1322508869 465947 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think "join :: IO (IO a) -> IO a" may be clarifying, then, since you can use fmap/return/join instead of return/(>>=) < 1322508875 848319 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course there is more than >>= since there is also fmap, join, <$>, <*>, and so on < 1322508884 304824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: even people who can get behind the paywalls, it's heavily DRMed < 1322508896 551412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not entirely sure copying the resulting file would work, although it probably would to some extent < 1322508899 421115 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.e., "if you have an IO program that produces another IO program that produces an a, then you can turn that into an IO program that produces an a (by just executing the program you get out of it)" < 1322508914 740616 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I'm pretty sure it would, since people regularly get pdfs behind paywalls for others... < 1322508924 879497 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, never mind, foudn it < 1322508925 696835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it < 1322508933 907591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is you'd be able to read it, but need a hacked PDF reader to be able to do anything but read it < 1322508942 545068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it'd allow printing, if you were lucky < 1322508946 518150 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "hacked"? lol! < 1322508951 781355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise that no pdf reader apart from like < 1322508953 877145 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :acrobat and xpdf < 1322508960 328450 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually obey the drm bullshit < 1322508960 509192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :respects the DRM? < 1322508974 247017 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retype it if you need to... < 1322508978 510536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in that case, they're illegal in the US, or some such nonsense < 1322508989 502137 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt that very much < 1322509028 467394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DMCA is kind-of ridiculous < 1322509035 628991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much the same thing as libdvdcss, just on a smaller scale < 1322509059 64108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in that instead of heavy encryption, it's just a note saying "please") < 1322509059 597347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, can anyone here get behind ACM paywalls who isn't too legalistic to share the spoils? < 1322509079 659655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have several friends in university who probably have access. < 1322509083 690773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: updersation between itidus21, Vorpal, and kallisdeet <-- what? < 1322509085 161254 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should delete evince, it's clearly illegal :) < 1322509089 502566 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dude, I just linked you to the pdf. < 1322509098 772058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was a general thing. < 1322509102 628250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: this sort of thing is why I refuse to go to the US :) < 1322509122 486650 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure we have something draconian enough to outlaw it < 1322509122 807425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why I didn't take any sort of computer with me to Canada, although that was at least just as much a distrust of airports < 1322509162 686393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent a week without Internet access there (except for a few minutes when I sneaked onto one of the computers the lecture hall used for projecting stuff on the screen; an old trick) < 1322509171 444506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322509182 612972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even usable phone, either, mobile or landline < 1322509209 933221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there were payphones, but they took around 5 minutes to calculate the cost of a call to the UK, and then quoted an amount so large it'd have been really awkward to pay using coins) < 1322509348 622681 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, ais523 has to hear my terrible idea now because it'll either help me forget about it, or reassure me that I'm not the only one suffering < 1322509364 298301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you have found your own Feather :) < 1322509396 669536 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a simple POSIX-alike where everything is run in ring 0 with @-style techniques; memory access requires checking that it's owned by the process < 1322509414 227020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enforced how? < 1322509421 605950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ring 0 process could trivially change the perms < 1322509428 102216 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ it would end up more efficient than traditional implementations, because a branch per RAM access is cheaper than the syscall overhead < 1322509429 640162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, statically < 1322509442 9779 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep; although I was also considering if hardware virtualisation stuff could do it < 1322509443 160968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you verify that the program is itself doing access checks on itself < 1322509445 439147 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's ubiquitous nowadays < 1322509448 882977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't run it if it doesn't < 1322509453 997876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that feels strangely evil < 1322509458 662596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I was just going to make a C compiler do it < 1322509464 561883 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it be trusted < 1322509469 497046 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but checking the binary would be viable, too < 1322509472 311092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but what it does to the poor binary is beautifully ridiculous < 1322509487 365859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be the age of lawful programs < 1322509496 682011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do anything without checking it's legal first, even though they /could/ < 1322509501 427733 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and if the compiler is trusted that lets it optimise out certain checks < 1322509509 596676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322509518 259848 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a = malloc(...); if (a) { ... *a ... } -- you don't need to check a afterwards < 1322509521 370606 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the block < 1322509523 333265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a recipe for exploiting compiler bugs < 1322509528 619932 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, indeed < 1322509535 601466 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compiler bugs can already lead to exploits, though < 1322509542 695841 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a daemon running as root is miscompiled < 1322509544 199497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, indeed < 1322509564 498894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably less likely to be exploitable on average, but it's still a qualititative difference < 1322509574 487886 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm tempted to do this because it sounds easier than @, and would be a neat proof-of-concept that some of its low-level details do increase efficiency < 1322509596 810879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I remember the paper that found that if a processor got even a single multiplication wrong, it would be possible to crack some sort of encryption (I forget what) done on it < 1322509596 990342 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc with @ the risk for compiler bugs is reduced since it's not based on "checks" for safety, but safety-by-design using the object capability model and the type system < 1322509602 226420 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, neat < 1322509603 22172 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1322509604 62402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no statement of there ever being any male Sheikah since the true gender of Sheik is debated by many fans. < 1322509607 945917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you can get it to encrypt arbitrary text for you, or something like that < 1322509610 688244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fans/slash fiction writers/ < 1322509634 745082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think it's mostly an issue of semantics < 1322509641 618582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1322509663 50162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the argument over Metroid Prime's gender (he, she, it are all viable options with plausible arguments makeable for them; plot-wise, it doesn't matter in the least) < 1322509675 317163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about Sheik though < 1322509679 80111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that Sheik is Zelda < 1322509680 864449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, by extension, Dark Samus' < 1322509693 411621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't explicitly mention anything about Sheik actually being male < 1322509694 390012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322509698 730531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'd be very surprised if that prevented people writing Sheik/Zelda slashfic < 1322509699 637344 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just kind of assume < 1322509712 530104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Sheik is a female, like Zelda, since they're the same person < 1322509717 124275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheik was deliberately made with a male 3D model < 1322509726 919979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was to keep the Sheik=Zelda thing secret from the player until right at the end of the game < 1322509728 124332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure MAGICAL GENDER CHANGING is possible but... not mentioned so not canon. < 1322509751 635206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most plausible argument is that Zelda is just very good at disguising herself, even if it includes cross-dressing < 1322509765 35608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I think some people just want Sheik to have a penis. < 1322509779 923845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1322509821 34103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like, they played the game thinking Sheik was a male and then when it was revealed they.... resisted changing their mind or something? < 1322509838 160742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1322509889 940966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you could argue that there may be magic involved, since sheik has different eye color (red, like a Sheikah) < 1322509901 629938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Zelda just has some awesome contacts though. < 1322509910 598842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's fun? speculation about video game characters. < 1322509914 863354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fun. < 1322510117 265754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, magic being involved is uncontroversial. < 1322510151 599562 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservation of volume is presumably still conserved under normal circumstances, no matter how many bandages you use. < 1322510174 728632 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322510487 241715 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back; disappointed not to see "biarb" from ais523 < 1322510530 926093 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I find it odd to posit that magic is used for changing eye-colour but to consider it unreasonable to posit that magic was used to change a far more drastic change in bodily structure (note: I have never played a Zelda game for long) < 1322510546 71679 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, this is unrelated to the question of gender < 1322510621 446663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know much about AMD-V / Intel VT-x? < 1322511163 312383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in Zelda games, magic exists but mostly only has a few defined effects < 1322511173 474740 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is changing eye-colour one of them? < 1322511176 266919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322511187 636717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Zelda seems capable of unusual magical abilities < 1322511196 638696 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then my point stands :P < 1322511202 692108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who knows what magic she can do < 1322511212 502616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if she was just using coloured contact lenses, though < 1322511277 403887 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing it's hard to find information on: whether you can do hardware virtualisation in ring 0 < 1322511282 317455 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the code being virtualised runs in ring 0 < 1322511330 944182 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1322511334 806082 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what hardware virtualisation is for, it seems < 1322511629 566216 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I think what I'm doing is something like Xen, but where each program is an OS < 1322511640 790231 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and runs without a kernel < 1322511676 802957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like decent practice for @ < 1322511715 919636 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the only problem is that (a) I don't have a machine with the virtualisation stuff I need (b) it's literally all about low-level hardware details :) < 1322511781 657060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm not sure if I should advise you to put @ off, or complete it now before you end up getting a job and not having time for that sort of large project < 1322511809 186843 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly the only solution is to have someone pay me to work on @ < 1322511831 353659 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I should write all but one line of @ while it's still in my head, and then write the last line whenever I need a Ph.D. handy :D < 1322511882 300991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can actually get a PhD entirely on work you've already done < 1322511889 493007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, you're unlikely to get funded in that situation < 1322511903 465133 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322511917 572123 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main problem is that I'd have to write a book justifying @ < 1322511923 468259 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I've probably already done that in here < 1322511959 257947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is finding all the previous work on mildly related things < 1322511967 708509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show how a) you were inspired by it, and b) it's different from what you're doing < 1322511993 66251 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm kind of already doing that by digging up everything related I can find to take inspiration from it :P < 1322512006 514486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: keep a record of it, then < 1322512013 46490 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the boring part :( < 1322512013 375382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :citation details, at least < 1322512022 529956 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I probably should at least have a bookmark folder or something < 1322512026 962110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, less boring doing it at the time when it's easy, then later when it takes a lot longer < 1322512027 271745 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I keep losing things < 1322512034 347916 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/then/than/, presumably < 1322512037 853536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1322512042 748076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grabbing citation details is quick and easy < 1322512053 405232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :formatting them for consistency is the boring part, but that can easily be done much later < 1322512086 841555 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, I know, I'll just do @ now, and then my Ph.D. can be /naming/ it < 1322512102 78593 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of graphs and statistics on the emotional response to various potential names < 1322512102 400415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1322512113 799172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd, umm, be a PhD in marketing < 1322512125 75654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be a bizarre thing for you to have < 1322512138 658755 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'd, er, develop a New Kind of Name Generation Algorithm < 1322512144 887749 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only works on @, for some reason < 1322512168 254280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: spambot-based naming? < 1322512179 510435 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect @ name generator algorithm that only works on @: get_current_os_name() < 1322512262 762685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it only works on @ /after it's named/ < 1322512273 112836 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not @ until it's named! < 1322512298 444851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, will this conversation look weird once @ /is/ named and we search-and-replace the logs < 1322512388 668536 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322512419 256429 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, now i really hope Gregor does tha < 1322512419 749473 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1322512433 827320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and clog's owners too? < 1322512449 8632 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clog will probably turn to rust before then < 1322512462 753174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the logs will probably be backed up < 1322512464 943879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can IRC bots rust? < 1322512480 342386 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any IRC bot can, clog can < 1322512528 296816 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just eventually clog up < 1322512533 807960 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick oerjan < 1322512593 243466 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rude < 1322512626 547617 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ elliott_ You can't rewrite history! < 1322512639 356754 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name is indeed @ elliott_. < 1322512641 837072 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ ais523 I'm just going to start Twitter-addressing everybody. < 1322512644 650039 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed it after the completion of @ to honour it. < 1322512658 946171 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's not twitter-addressing, you need to omit the space, and also replace @ with an at sign < 1322512672 418695 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: With a what? < 1322512686 333145 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I have it on my keyboard; you should type it so I can copy it. < 1322512713 520424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1322512747 204808 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: \@ < 1322512753 742394 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thankfully, the regexp will take escapes into account) < 1322512794 202911 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could've picked a less common character... < 1322512874 719776 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: < 1322512875 138153 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky esoteric]$ fgrep '\@' ????-??-??.txt | wc -l < 1322512875 317978 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 < 1322512910 462579 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, less common than '@'. < 1322512921 918534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run fgrep '\@' ????-??-??.txt | wc -l < 1322512924 401856 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgrep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ 0 < 1322512928 784973 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: @ is the only thing that's right for it < 1322512929 435086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I need to change the directory < 1322512931 569369 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else looks wrong < 1322512933 435578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run fgrep '\@' logs/????-??-??.txt | wc -l < 1322512936 123417 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgrep: logs/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ 0 < 1322512940 234241 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run fgrep '\@' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | wc -l < 1322512940 727011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1322512945 945931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that's where it is? < 1322512959 390973 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 < 1322512964 657144 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1322512979 842684 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -F < 1322512981 690354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/ \ canary \ karma \ lib/ \ paste/ \ quotes \ share/ \ wisdom/ < 1322513028 749477 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1322513030 958135 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1322513036 267730 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOO < 1322513037 180579 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1322513038 633333 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1322513060 904067 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg diff 1170 1171 < 1322513064 67584 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1170: No such file or directory \ 1171: No such file or directory < 1322513068 117669 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg diff -r 1170 -r 1171 < 1322513071 404860 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff -r 0d97b97d3636 -r 1cc5d9c44760 wisdom/shachaf \ --- a/wisdom/shachaf.Sat Nov 26 18:17:45 2011 +0000 \ +++ /dev/null.Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 \ @@ -1,1 +0,0 @@ \ -shachaf mad < 1322513082 536126 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg diff -r 1170 -r 1171 | patch < 1322513085 169383 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next patch would delete the file shachaf, \ which does not exist! Assume -R? [n] \ Apply anyway? [n] \ Skipping patch. \ 1 out of 1 hunk ignored < 1322513089 74447 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg diff -r 1170 -r 1171 | patch -R < 1322513092 30064 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :patching file shachaf < 1322513099 806177 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom < 1322513101 688437 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv shachaf wisdom < 1322513102 138264 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ elliott \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ itidus20 \ kallisti \ mad \ monad \ monads \ monoid \ monqy \ nooga \ oerjan \ oklopol \ phantom__hoover \ phantom_hoover \ php \ qdb \ qdbformat \ quine \ sgeo \ u \ vorpal \ welcome \ wiki \ you < 1322513103 728148 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322513111 677949 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1322513114 198031 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad < 1322513121 503194 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1322513133 140592 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is flattered that you went to all that trouble. < 1322513134 466700 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1322513136 723883 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322513137 745058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just re-add it by hand? < 1322513151 480440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably have been simpler < 1322513156 354162 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? banach-tarski < 1322513158 879304 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". < 1322513167 523525 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan added that < 1322513169 476332 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot be blamed < 1322513172 17539 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1322513173 402921 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1322513174 468180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good one < 1322513191 690404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: don't you need to revert 2? or does it just revert the last side-effecting command? < 1322513194 318574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1322513196 206840 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf mad < 1322513200 392398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the latter < 1322513203 181628 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only mutating commands commit < 1322513212 91191 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? c < 1322513214 162998 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault < 1322513214 911220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like `quote ? < 1322513223 890407 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not any more < 1322513229 64064 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1322513231 62001 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322513232 811185 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hg commit < 1322513232 990105 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1322513233 707958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh? Why did you remove that feature? < 1322513235 788061 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: could not lock working directory of /hackenv: Read-only file system < 1322513239 925872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you < 1322513242 208610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it'd mess up transactional hackego :) < 1322513242 387908 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you a haskell < 1322513246 547397 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea how to use hg. < 1322513249 294413 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1322513261 183587 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1322513261 395407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? u < 1322513263 352891 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322513265 488165 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1322513265 667144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, stop it < 1322513267 119874 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1322513276 266512 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stop it! < 1322513276 461416 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :u monad? < 1322513287 95520 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/revert < 1322513289 203809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/revert: No such file or directory < 1322513293 357531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is HackEgo talking withotu commands? < 1322513293 549152 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1322513295 458701 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1322513304 412992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, at least two people want to keep it. Me and elliott. That means a majority of us three. < 1322513316 738366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay, he can have it deleted. < 1322513320 894933 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have extra votes because I'm me. < 1322513333 558151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you just did that to annoy me. Good job :P < 1322513343 10072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but kallisti has extra votes because he's Bjorn < 1322513366 553072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1322513368 122147 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1322513372 328830 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The only reason you wanted to keep it was that elliott_ wanted it. < 1322513379 472029 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You should get rid of the _. < 1322513385 705034 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's grating on the fingers, you know. < 1322513385 945596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, come on. We two usually never agree on /anything/ < 1322513398 15253 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unless annoying a third party is at stake! < 1322513410 761160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, not really no < 1322513427 758305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait, you're annoying? I hadn't realised < 1322513435 931002 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1322513441 951755 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, shachaf is super annoy(ing|ed). < 1322513459 693821 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't either. < 1322513528 67635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, I was buying cell-batteries the other day and the retailer wanted me to enter a facebook user and password so it could automatically insert a facebook comment that I had purchased batteries from them. < 1322513557 21806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my mind cannot comprehend the amount of stupidity in existence implied by that comment < 1322513564 366566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not from the author, he clearly couldn't either) < 1322513603 11022 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it makes money, it's not stupidity < 1322513609 733823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1322513620 674600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm not convinced it's stupid from the retailers' point of view either < 1322513635 268514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for it to be sensible from their point of view, implies a sufficient number of stupid people around that it actually makes a profit < 1322513699 210422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it could be an experiment to find out if that is the case? < 1322513700 588360 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's not necessarily stupid to prioritise not being bothered by a retailer over very minorly annoying some people, considering how much noise facebook has anyway < 1322513705 571705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it is not the case < 1322513732 778371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it /is/ stupid to give a username and password that you probably use for everything to a random retailer, though < 1322513775 539507 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK, but I'd rather blame (a) the username/password model to start with and (b) the lack of proper computer security education, although (b) is massively impaired by the fact that the current systems are unusable (see (a)) < 1322513799 690496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what model would be better than username/password, and also that people could be persuaded to use? < 1322513804 767381 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are situations where you have to give away your password; for instance, when trying to get my MacBook replaced, Apple demanded my password < 1322513813 607316 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't exactly educate people not to give their passwords away < 1322513831 646983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: err, what? that seems like a bizarre thing for them to want < 1322513842 750949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the login password to unlock the computer for the main user? < 1322513844 874313 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I tried notto think too much about it < 1322513849 154181 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, my Apple ID password < 1322513851 255882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the phone < 1322513855 237770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322513857 509434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322513862 102346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK, probably to verify that you're an actual customer of theirs < 1322513873 617263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, something like that < 1322513878 360390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a password to log in to the person at the other end of the phone is reasonable < 1322513887 546802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no obvious reason why they should be restricted to computers < 1322513895 42888 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's still giving your password to someone else, so it's hardly surprising that people aren't averse to doing that < 1322513900 610791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than salting/hashing being hard to do mentally < 1322513913 501528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hardware certificates + password entered on the hardware certificate device use to sign a response code. That should be better than classical user/password. Major PITA for anything except bank transactions and other high security stuff < 1322513915 673090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, salting is easy) < 1322513929 276196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a password existing for the purpose of giving to specific other people is reasonable to give to those people < 1322513935 491103 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I don't know which model is necessarily better than passwords, but things like OpenID are a start, even if they have a password at the base of it; public key crypto is also promising < 1322513972 960341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hardware certificates :P < 1322513982 674824 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a GPG key on a USB key integrated into your browser that asks for the passphrase when it's plugged in doesn't seem that bad to me < 1322513994 143459 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if the USB key doesn't expose the GPG key but just signs things as it < 1322513998 69873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I was thinking along the lines of smartcard but sure < 1322514011 28833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in that case, you can put a fingerprint reader on the USB device < 1322514025 389858 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everything i've read suggests fingerprint readers are completely insecure < 1322514027 848218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably saves time over password memorisation, and you still have two factors < 1322514042 684505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: right, the problem is that they're too easily brute-forced < 1322514047 442040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprint readers are insecure yeah < 1322514049 434571 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and copiable, I believe? < 1322514053 970630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone would probably notice brute-forcing in a shop < 1322514058 33820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want an iris scanner! < 1322514072 766531 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true, but nobody wants an authentication mechanism that only works in shops < 1322514078 179905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322514091 746097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all biometrics are copiable for the same reason that all videos are copiable < 1322514098 726919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to be translated to data at some point, and you can copy that < 1322514111 462775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fingerprints are easy to copy however iirc < 1322514111 684292 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in a shop, something like logging in on a smartphone and passing an authentication to post a status update wirelessly seems like the most reasonable way to do something like this (not that it /should/ be done) < 1322514113 844347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just use it directly rather than scanning it in < 1322514132 176204 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, the shop can't do anything at all apart from post one status update right then < 1322514135 609869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, perhaps the shop should have a QR code, and the smartphone scans that < 1322514143 25655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably knows the Facebook username/password already < 1322514145 624611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like if you have a laser printer + some stuff that is easy to get your hands on for not a lot of money you can copy a fingerprint < 1322514150 885345 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh; I gather that QR codes aren't gaining traction because they're really ugly,t hough < 1322514153 803720 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*, though < 1322514154 446899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the exact details < 1322514157 65417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably have to accept an authorisation popup first time < 1322514162 459841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: also, because they seem to have too much computational power < 1322514167 223616 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1322514169 679312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a rumour of QR code trojans a while back < 1322514170 696324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, they are gaining traction here in Sweden, slowly. < 1322514177 707418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no idea what level of social engineering that required to work < 1322514186 24258 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they might be a growing fad, but that doesn't mean they're gaining long-term traction < 1322514189 297983 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow < 1322514192 79363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1322514199 350748 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they only encode a small bit of textual data to my knowledge, so that's surprising < 1322514204 343677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have been as simple as "QR code points at website containing malicious software download" < 1322514235 762675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably was, actually, and the media went crazy about it as usual < 1322514246 549924 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely the former < 1322514251 553370 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :qr codes just encode data < 1322514268 982444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't listen to mainstream media wrt viruses. They are bloody useless. < 1322514304 173474 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: s/viruses/computers/ < 1322514316 967579 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/computers/anything/ (per Knoll's Law) < 1322514325 4302 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Law of Media Accuracy < 1322514341 88035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, this was tech media < 1322514345 134836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can be just as bad sometimes < 1322514351 674904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just sound more like they know what they were doing < 1322514381 15865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, true < 1322514390 624822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1322514396 119156 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why you stick to respected institutions like The Register! < 1322514413 764585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: at least the Register is reasonably consistently biased < 1322514422 243238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has a strong pro-Paris-Hiltion bias) < 1322514422 422395 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322514438 907727 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322514457 158235 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322514463 40208 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know anything about x86 hardware virtualisation < 1322514500 615258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes < 1322514505 317075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not much though < 1322514511 847392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why? < 1322514532 492561 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I know it can be used to virtualise code running in ring 0 < 1322514539 366878 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it can be used to remap memory accesses by that code? < 1322514539 863715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1322514544 291525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322514546 747492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it can remap memory accesses by virtualised stuff in ring-3 < 1322514573 248323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no idea. Probably depends on if it is hardware stuff, in which case you need an IOMMU, which is not yet common on consumer (read: non-server) hardware < 1322514583 523465 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322514585 7459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in DMA or such < 1322514585 186458 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Page_Table < 1322514588 459113 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this will work < 1322514595 621780 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A separate set of page tables (the EPT tables) translate from guest-physical addresses to the host-physical addresses that are used to access memory." < 1322514603 468358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sure < 1322514607 879743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what about it? < 1322514611 810373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do you want it < 1322514613 450287 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it'll let me remap the memory < 1322514617 363577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of ring-0 stuff being virtualised < 1322514626 729409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you virtualizing ring-0 stuff? < 1322514628 519201 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only Nehalem-onwards, but oh well < 1322514632 611940 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looks like AMD implements the same thing < 1322514642 33883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you want to use kvm. Because AMD and Intel use different models for it < 1322514645 508437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kvm abstracts that < 1322514649 634542 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, I don't < 1322514655 900577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1322514676 56705 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an OS ide I've had that is both significantly easier to do than @, and demonstrates/tests some of its low-level performance benefits < 1322514677 613265 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idea < 1322514692 557219 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's a POSIX-ish kernel that runs everything in ring 0 that virtualises every process < 1322514696 481903 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for security) < 1322514704 337970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322514709 92294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1322514713 479345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop can run that < 1322514723 288645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I think virtualbox has it as a "nested page table" thingy < 1322514725 103587 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, although, I'm not sure how expensive ring 0 stuff talking to the virtualisation code is < 1322514742 168932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, without that feature you just handle those page tables in you hypervisor software < 1322514744 173852 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's as expensive as a syscall, then my adventage is lost < 1322514759 460247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, might be more expensive < 1322514759 812185 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if anyone knows the answer... let me know < 1322514767 346416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me < 1322514775 281261 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, not much more expensive, at least, or Xen would be really slow < 1322514783 423263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ISTR that running Linux under Xen is actually faster than running it natively < 1322514785 202651 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in certain scenarios < 1322514793 575114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322514804 21568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to see a citation on that < 1322514816 769215 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have one, I'm afraid < 1322514831 688971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway linux has special code to run better as a guest < 1322514832 521929 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, even if virtualisation isn't possible the OS idea will still work... I'll just go back to my original idea of building the checks into the compiled code < 1322514861 649264 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think a branch on every memory access will pay itself off by the vastly reduced syscall overhead < 1322514971 346649 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, your new job (changed from discouraging me to write this) is to make sure I continue writing it after I get a bootloader < 1322514978 383242 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like writing bootloaders < 1322514988 177507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322515057 662109 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main problems with @ is that it's not at all clear where it actually starts running < 1322515116 239055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you have some outside-@ bootloader that just sets up for bits of disk to be swapped into memory so they can start running again < 1322515232 785766 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then jumps where? < 1322515252 725269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to where the IP was the last time stuff got flushed to disk < 1322515253 188705 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322515255 292380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be very recent < 1322515275 36491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's going to be in the disk-flushing routines, which makes life rather easier < 1322515279 947165 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's more than one IP, and there's more machine state than just RAM + registers < 1322515300 198116 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, that doesn't work, because you need to set up more than that < 1322515304 357045 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timers, interrupts, and so on < 1322515307 507026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, it jumps to stuff to restore that, then to where stuff was < 1322515316 316824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem may be difficult, but it's easy to describe < 1322515316 653071 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the IP of the disk-flushing stuff won't be stored) < 1322515326 970228 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's run from a timer, and doesn't block anything) < 1322515333 589610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it does blockt hings, but not /everything/) < 1322515338 814526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it just causes a switch to another thread, mostly) < 1322515359 553029 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, but where is that stuff? :) < 1322515372 74506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for proper orthogonal persistence, it has to be persisted < 1322515408 597331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, you could decide that some of it can't meaningfully be persisted (network driver state, for instance), in which case it'd be the driver's job to initialise it < 1322515424 737624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, look at what Linux does on hibernate/unhibernate; it's basically that < 1322515437 787150 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that much, but Linux unhibernate is too specialised < 1322515443 24647 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it assumes all the structures and the like are the same < 1322515449 241493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : because I think a branch on every memory access will pay itself off by the vastly reduced syscall overhead <-- depends on how IO-bound the code is. < 1322515451 917595 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ can't assume that, it needs to have a completely generic bootloader < 1322515459 240481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for IO you traditionally need lots of syscalls < 1322515461 673849 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I disagree < 1322515476 996873 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: even CPU-bound tasks that do, e.g. concurrency of any sort, have to do communication < 1322515489 677468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's not the bootloader's job to do most of the unhibernate < 1322515502 158057 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then whose job /is/ it, and how does the bootloader get to it? < 1322515522 828922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wrt the other conversation, concurrency primitives don't touch the kernel except when there's contention, nowadays < 1322515531 170383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm considering the sort of heavy task I personally do a lot of. Which is stuff like optimising non-linear equations over thousands of data points for best fit. < 1322515537 64715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's the init scripts' job, IIRC < 1322515539 845048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, wrt the other conversation, concurrency primitives don't touch the kernel except when there's contention, nowadays < 1322515541 289133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure number crunching < 1322515544 940134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, because syscalls are slow < 1322515545 626391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if they're run by init directly during unhibernate, or some other way < 1322515549 719233 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so removing syscall overhead sped things up < 1322515550 981131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: exactly < 1322515564 672494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is, there isn't currently syscall overhead in that because it was removed a different way < 1322515576 969570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, avoiding checks on memory access by being smart in the compiler will certainly pay off for some tasks though < 1322515577 629915 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "tight loop of number crunching with a data set that fits into RAM and absolutely no concurrency whatsoever" is rare and becoming even rarer as multicore gets more and more ubiquitous < 1322515585 475629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the issue is about how syscall-bound the program is < 1322515597 811050 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for a job like that, anyway, a /scheduler/ is a bottleneck < 1322515599 281504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web of Lies gives you a really good idea of how syscall-bound a program is < 1322515606 872486 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're not calling any syscalls, why not run it directly on bare hardware? < 1322515608 347314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has no timing effect on anything but syscalls < 1322515612 124286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well yes. < 1322515613 248344 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so OSes are already working against tasks like that < 1322515620 492064 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody will care if they work against them a bit more < 1322515633 913057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've actually been wondering how @'s scheduler works, or if it has one, and if it doesn't have one what it does instead < 1322515645 58440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and if you're not calling any syscalls, why not run it directly on bare hardware? <-- because it is less convenient when debugging :P < 1322515675 365113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually you do some syscalls even in those cases. Load initial data set, write out final result < 1322515680 569404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least < 1322515684 834695 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322515695 658577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so reducing sysccall overhead helps there < 1322515698 112441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is like 3 syscalls minimum, one read, one write, one exit < 1322515702 267258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a few more < 1322515706 463800 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not as much as you lose, but it's likely that you do a bunch of read and writes < 1322515713 736327 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a lot of datasets can't fit into RAM < 1322515720 766912 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the datasets where you /really/ care about performance do < 1322515731 584437 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a small change in constant factors has a large change on the end result due to the size of the data < 1322515736 655932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the thing about those syscalls in this case is that they are one-time. They don't really vary that much between data sets of different sizes either. It is still a single read and a single write < 1322515742 389461 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see above < 1322515742 607405 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's something I've been thinking about a lot recently < 1322515750 95679 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it definitely does have a scheduler < 1322515761 43505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if your data set can't fit into your ram things are going to be horribly slow anyway < 1322515763 357791 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322515779 894227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, even without considering IO overhead disks are way slower than ram < 1322515787 335978 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Most data sets don't fit in RAM. < 1322515790 465687 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really, if you can do it in chunks of 8 gigs or so at a time... < 1322515796 979814 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, most data sets you give a shit about. < 1322515799 237461 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming there's not too much interdependency < 1322515805 604617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, indeed. < 1322515819 958572 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, problematically, it needs a /really good/ scheduler < 1322515836 344348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a land where heavy computing jobs go through a terabyte drive in a day, everything is IO bound. < 1322515837 677748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: with the caps to do anything < 1322515839 140301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my /personal/ use case here is mostly stuff that fits into ram. Like 5-6 GB of data. < 1322515841 595073 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and it needs to handle millions of tasks (= processes/threads) running < 1322515854 542770 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it's not a problem for such low-level code to have all permissions < 1322515858 337233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322515860 430620 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't need quite that many < 1322515882 870304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it needs to be able to stick the IP in the middle of arbitrary code < 1322515888 939619 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically I need tasks to be as cheap as lightweight threads in GHC(/Erlang/whatever) < 1322515917 684773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no real problem with a million-task scheduler with current technology; the issue is more adapting for various patterns of blocked/nonblocked < 1322515919 666856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah erlang have really light weight processes < 1322515928 540406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc ~300 words per thread + stack < 1322515928 719461 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not as lightweight as GHC, to my knowledge < 1322515941 372822 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least speed-wise < 1322515942 348454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for handling operations like sleep, etc, you aren't going to do better than n log n (possible with a heap-like priority queue) < 1322515948 128658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that going to be good enough? < 1322515950 366707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, quite possible < 1322515952 977827 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the problem is more memory usage < 1322515968 707626 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need some subdivision of the massive heap to do effective GC < 1322515972 314536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just throw in more RAM. that is where computers are heading anyway < 1322515977 378455 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want to be able to do copying, incremental GC < 1322515984 410495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is the scheduler doing that? < 1322515985 722412 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tasks seem a reasonable unit to do that at < 1322515987 374485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, can't you have per-process heap for stuff not likely to be sent between threads? < 1322515987 691112 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1322515990 804604 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the point is, how do you divide it? < 1322515996 32076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no concept of "process" < 1322515999 636864 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's no concept of "process" < 1322516000 514183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, per task then < 1322516004 881229 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's the problem < 1322516011 927647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there is a concept of "unlikely to be sent to a different task", but it'd be quite hard to determine < 1322516022 112363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or per unit that can be stopped independently from other units for GC tasks < 1322516023 104107 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory management strategy involved 2 mebioctets + 4 kibioctets per pool < 1322516027 334596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pages < 1322516030 320577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could just use the generational GC approach, treating all data as that until it's actually sent to another task < 1322516031 619993 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not viable for millions of threads < 1322516041 685632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322516043 758751 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 megs * 1 million = 2 terabytes < 1322516045 788638 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoopsie! < 1322516052 185904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you need to split on whole pages? < 1322516053 499002 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and this has to be in /RAM/, not on disk) < 1322516054 109397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: why not? just use a system where the address space is way bigger than the actual amount of memory < 1322516060 910246 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in /pages/ < 1322516063 834787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, x64 probably doesn't meet that requirement < 1322516065 84847 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that map to /physical RAM/ < 1322516067 561401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, afaik erlang does not use a whole page per process < 1322516072 626910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, physical, ouch < 1322516079 685936 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, that was my memory management trick, to make an allocation take 2 cycles < 1322516083 803407 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no branches < 1322516091 978337 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for allocations of less than 4 kilobytes < 1322516093 122628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ... that might not be a good tradeoff < 1322516094 768017 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= almost all of them) < 1322516106 775690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's an excellent tradeoff, it just means I can't have a pool per task < 1322516118 429784 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brings up the question, how /do/ I divide pools? < 1322516118 751439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322516131 275793 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: two CPUs cannot allocate from the same pool at once < 1322516134 820830 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want to use locks < 1322516143 511460 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't just say "oh, divide it between 100 tasks" < 1322516156 628060 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those tasks will have vastly reduced concurrency < 1322516160 403593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pool per cpu? < 1322516178 7243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or core or whatever < 1322516185 770560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a CPU isn't really anything; this has to be of the real heap, which is of ~a terabyte in size < 1322516187 584469 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not RAM itself < 1322516191 658676 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because GC is done on the real heap < 1322516201 633358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't see any reason why all the allocations of a single task have to come from the same pool < 1322516204 440174 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1322516206 79132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is moved to a different CPU < 1322516209 358903 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would tie tasks to CPUs permanently < 1322516213 282554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1322516215 97701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache lines < 1322516221 457725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I see reasons < 1322516224 831492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's nothing to do with cache lines, but that's not what I said < 1322516233 315716 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason two CPUs can't use a pool is because there's a really nasty race condition < 1322516240 870312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you don't want to share a page between two CPUs unless it is actually shared data :P < 1322516242 678693 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could only be solved with a lock or slower CAS shit < 1322516247 914645 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which defeats my 2 cycle allocation strategy < 1322516258 337834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, when allocating yes. But not when /using/ said pages < 1322516268 186350 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said < 1322516270 862068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allocated offset 40-57 in the page < 1322516271 190212 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1322516275 647876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use that freely < 1322516276 223904 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program can allocate from its pool at any time < 1322516281 624428 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a program only uses one pool at a time < 1322516285 871341 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's expanded when necessary) < 1322516288 4054 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is the unit of GC) < 1322516297 973292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I suggest tying the pool to the cpu instead. < 1322516301 902450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1322516302 793475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, how common are allocations? and how common would they be if they were very cheap? < 1322516304 21942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just told you that doesn't work at all < 1322516308 461519 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: _there is no CPU_ < 1322516312 729305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't think your GC design is viable. < 1322516315 715335 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1322516322 738557 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't understand it < 1322516324 531060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with millions of tasks < 1322516329 939151 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you keep making references to "CPUs" and other things that don't exist < 1322516335 322822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hmm, how do you verify that a process doesn't access out-of-address-space when it's allocating memory dynamically < 1322516342 568080 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I never said I want a pool per task < 1322516344 201637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what the fuck do you execute the damn code on then? < 1322516345 670331 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm trying to avoid right now < 1322516348 646091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pink creepers? < 1322516354 572036 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol, you're an idiot < 1322516363 866895 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you cannot make reference to CPU in the distribution of pools < 1322516372 221797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: CPU affinity is only meaningful wrt per-CPU cache, AFAICT < 1322516376 815900 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Then your memory model does not handle NUMA. < 1322516379 453155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why? < 1322516383 34665 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: w h a t < 1322516385 408385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly, in the future, per-CPU RAM that isn't cache, but that's not standard yet < 1322516390 295980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes pikhq_ has a point < 1322516399 239603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I'm not convinced that per-CPU cache is unimportant here < 1322516399 635852 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've decided explaining to you won't make you any less stupid, so I'm just going to answer ais523 instead < 1322516400 430737 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMA? < 1322516405 847170 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: hmm, how common are allocations? and how common would they be if they were very cheap? < 1322516407 365809 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-Uniform Memory Access. < 1322516409 946873 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exceedingly common < 1322516411 775455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Non-uniform memory access < 1322516413 709013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like core i7 < 1322516419 596309 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, hmm, how do you verify that a process doesn't access out-of-address-space when it's allocating memory dynamically < 1322516421 564366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm? < 1322516422 781782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with dual cpus (not cores) < 1322516444 713842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: say a process writes the equivalent of char* a = malloc(5); putc(a[7]); < 1322516454 42154 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherein each CPU has its own memory (but can access that of others, though more slowly) < 1322516457 147179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's not a huge problem, you could just insist on bounds checks everywhere < 1322516463 672257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think that'd be enough < 1322516471 27960 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can't, and bounds checks aren't necessary < 1322516478 718187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I believe nehalem and after is that, rihght? < 1322516480 569392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1322516482 806634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: umm, I mean char[], not char* < 1322516484 275118 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the whole point of @ is that it doesn't run untrusted code < 1322516496 47258 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For Intel, yeah. < 1322516498 490709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I know; the question is, how do you determine whether such code is trustworthy < 1322516500 494401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yeah < 1322516505 727634 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, the capability model? come on < 1322516508 874642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer, AFAICT, involves bounds checks, either runtime or statically < 1322516512 478791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I believe amd have on-cpu MMUs too? < 1322516515 302448 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you can prove to the @lang compiler that you never access out of bounds, bounds checks can be omitted < 1322516516 730439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, since even longer < 1322516519 716856 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, length-carrying vectors < 1322516522 968725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't k8 introduce that? < 1322516525 298787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yep, indeed < 1322516529 420969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant by static bounds checks < 1322516529 765737 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no "checks" there, your program just doesn't type if it accesses things wrong < 1322516530 560406 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, AMD's been doing NUMA a long freaking time. < 1322516535 300599 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I typed that before you said it < 1322516536 280923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a problem, just realised it wasn't one < 1322516543 531917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, and elliott_ has no clue about it... < 1322516548 450355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol < 1322516559 720967 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 years now. < 1322516562 335965 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stop being a fucking moron and assuming that because you don't understand how @'s GC works, I know nothing about NUMA < 1322516565 288783 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD Dragostea Din Tei? < 1322516575 539413 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: lol < 1322516592 383179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well pikhq_ had a point about you needing to use a local pool if possible or suffer bad speed. < 1322516640 877283 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's irrelevant, since processes point to the abstract memory space. < 1322516653 799101 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if necessary, the pool can be loaded into the RAM of the CPU it's running on. < 1322516657 738467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322516671 476792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but you said there was no such thing as a CPU :P < 1322516690 182156 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Insofar as virtual memory is concerned, there is no meaningful notion of "CPU". < 1322516696 844232 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because you kept trying to define pool allocation in terms of CPUs after I repeatedly told you that made no sense < 1322516701 135528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well obviously < 1322516702 106654 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the virtual memory space would be identical with 1 CPU or 1000. < 1322516703 58207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary of elliott_'s arguments: CPUs are not a program-visible concept, in the cases where they're relevant that's handled by the memory allocator or pager < 1322516712 493759 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not exactly < 1322516718 531127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't tie pools to CPUs because < 1322516724 185871 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) that'd mean tasks would be permanently tied to one CPU < 1322516724 674402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm suggesting that as a way to avoid having as many pools *and avoid the race conditions* < 1322516732 283755 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) what the hell do you do for tasks on disk? < 1322516733 262410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it means a completely different GC model though < 1322516735 724960 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you GC disk too < 1322516737 700861 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in units of pools < 1322516745 712470 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense at all < 1322516759 987333 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well thanks, that's a really unuseful suggestion and also not what you actually said? < 1322516770 519956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a) that'd mean tasks would be permanently tied to one CPU <-- no, the pool of the current cpu would be transparently used when allocating. < 1322516777 478079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could access any pool < 1322516785 151242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff you already allocated < 1322516793 819130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b) what the hell do you do for tasks on disk? <-- hm? < 1322516794 632034 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my GC model works perfectly fine with a decent way to allocate tasks, which you have so far not offered a single idea for, so I'm going to assume that you just don't understand the model, since you haven't asked for it or demonstrated any knowledge of it < 1322516831 953909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: well thanks, that's a really unuseful suggestion and also not what you actually said? <-- it was exactly what I said < 1322516840 182546 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I vote you have a certain number of pools (based on RAM or disk size?), and when a thread starts it gets assigned the least used pool. < 1322516848 31574 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pool per cpu durrr" != " elliott_, I'm suggesting that as a way to avoid having as many pools *and avoid the race conditions*" < 1322516868 446953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, then you misunderstood me < 1322516875 26656 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1322516878 311671 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pointless < 1322516882 387147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the reason for having more than one pool? I know it's a good one, but it'd probably make this clearer to have it spelt out < 1322516886 415675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, pikhq_'s idea makes sense < 1322516892 788767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but you are likely going to ignore it < 1322516896 577953 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't do copying GC on a terabyte if you don't have another terabyte < 1322516914 78884 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm working on a response to him because he's not an insufferable shithead; you, on the other hand, are going on /ignore < 1322516922 822490 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: I can't type infinitely fast < 1322516940 783702 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Incremental GC. < 1322516949 126394 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's not viable, since GC of a pool pauses every task using that pool, and two tasks on the same pool cannot ever be run at the same time (= on different SMP CPUs) < 1322516953 724936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, OK; what's stopping you having half the memory as one pool, and the other half as the place it gets copied to? other than the wastefulness? < 1322516960 429780 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you can hardly pause the entire OS while you GC an entire terabyte, either < 1322516964 329907 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd take an awfully long time < 1322516971 711031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1322516982 647318 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's wasteful, but even then, doing a single atomic copying-GC on a terabyte pool -- on disk! -- would be insanely slow < 1322516995 158983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hmm, are you planning to go on a stop-and-copy architecture specifically? or some other sort of copying GC? < 1322517014 666410 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it'll be generational (pools will contain multiple generations, I think) < 1322517030 27682 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and past a certain generation, they'll be dissociated from a pool entirely) < 1322517042 437776 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that really long-lived objects just sort of hang around on disk and are basically never touched by the GC) < 1322517059 449721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That sounds like the limits of having multiple tasks per pool. < 1322517073 96937 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm? < 1322517074 668513 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you already agreed that one pool per task isn't viable, so. < 1322517079 896543 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop-and-copy seems the most viable strategy < 1322517092 348916 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although, it would be nice if you could have a tight loop with allocation that was guaranteed to never pause for long at all < 1322517111 435428 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you could write things that really have to be realtimeish, e.g. small-buffer video/audio code < 1322517119 135696 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without having to avoid allocations (nearly impossible in @lang) < 1322517126 148227 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you need is a scheme for assigning task to pool, and so I gave you a simple one and claimed it was impractical because, basically, it would involve multiple tasks in a pool. < 1322517162 786715 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though: if you want to limit the stoppage, there's no reason for the pool assignment for a task to be *permanent*. < 1322517171 648983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I gave him another scheme for the same thing and he claimed it was impractical too. This discussion is being pretty pointless < 1322517172 728570 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, you need to assign them with some intelligence < 1322517192 414175 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: e.g., a cluster of 10 threads that "work together" in some sense to serve some larger task that started them, are probably OK to put on the same pool < 1322517202 240956 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fairly 'mundane' scheduling problem. < 1322517211 239031 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're "related", and so it doesn't matter if they don't run at the same time SMPly < 1322517221 59334 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get similar issues with trying to stick related tasks in the same NUMA group. < 1322517225 793641 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1322517242 176130 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly an *easy* problem, but it's at least a rather well-understood one, and not at all @-specific. < 1322517271 554280 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I wonder how fast I could get a concurrent allocator < 1322517287 510384 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically need an atomic form of {*y += n; x = *y;} < 1322517298 11133 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where x is a register and y is a memory location < 1322517378 462653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely CMPXCHG. < 1322517395 305149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x86's primary atomic instruction) < 1322517396 939939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, that might need retrying if it fails < 1322517406 130129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there an atomic increment? < 1322517412 327302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if it returns the old value < 1322517415 591676 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I have a feeling it's not going to be quite as fast as MOV + ADD < 1322517417 404630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any value even < 1322517451 660703 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It is if there's no contention. < 1322517478 310628 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure how cmpxchg would work, because you need to do an increment, not just a swap with some predetermined value < 1322517482 898916 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll need some lock layering on top < 1322517528 609672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I presume elliott_ is actually ignoring me. But lock xadd might do the job < 1322517566 83250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misunderstood the docs < 1322517575 431300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which definitely won't be as fast < 1322517584 63229 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: What you do is blithly fetch the value, increment it, and attempt the cmpxchg. If it fails, you restart. < 1322517585 229331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh lock xadd will be < 1322517594 199283 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ah < 1322517596 378899 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, you pass cmpxchg what the old value should be. < 1322517603 88265 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cheap is cmpxchg with no contention? < 1322517611 451858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I'm /pretty/ sure lock xadd will do this even cheaper. < 1322517612 745492 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh, that's a problem < 1322517620 279114 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you branch to determine whether the cmpxchg worked or not? < 1322517621 137379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you might want to inform elliott_ < 1322517629 98334 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole idea with my 2-cycle allocator is to avoid branches < 1322517657 345721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a single branch that'll be predicted correctly almost always is not going to be notably worse. :) < 1322517669 645870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh looks like pikhq_ is ignoring as well < 1322517673 424485 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it is when it's something as common as this :P < 1322517684 865837 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: and I'm not so sure it'll always be predicted correctly < 1322517698 692380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^say elliott I know the solution to this. There is a better atomic instruction. I told you above. < 1322517710 733536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1322517710 951608 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1322517710 951785 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocation is really common, and probably follows very predictable patterns in @lang's generated code, so I would not be surprised if the contention rate was high for a pool < 1322517712 102126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is xadd atomic? < 1322517719 473641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, with the lock prefix < 1322517740 312839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, but you need that for anything to be atomic < 1322517754 904041 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, sure enough, that works better. < 1322517773 576381 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, xadd? this looks like the right thing < 1322517773 755725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, don't tell elliott_ since he doesn't want to know what I have to say :P < 1322517801 987292 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is how much slower LOCK XADD is compared to ADD + MOV in a uniprocessor situation < 1322517814 333186 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not noticeably, but it'd be interesting to know exactly < 1322517833 872689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can trivially specialise the code on the fly < 1322517835 353048 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a uniprocessor situation, it's "ADD + MOV + MOV". < 1322517843 701297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uniprocessors are kind of outdated anyway < 1322517876 988160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, isn't it xchg,add even? < 1322517879 742060 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hmm, I don't think xadd can do memory < 1322517882 976395 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0F C1/r XADD r/m32, r32 Exchange r32 and r/m32; load sum into r/m32. < 1322517886 900264 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, yes it can < 1322517895 78753 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it couldn't it would be worthless. < 1322517898 513502 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :) < 1322517915 372977 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's atomic because it accesses a per-thread resource!" < 1322517917 843118 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that xadd has sparse google results is worrying, though < 1322517927 421536 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it one of those CISCy instructions that nobody generates any more and so has really badly optimised microcode? :p < 1322517948 595646 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's one of the basic atomic primitives. < 1322517974 703797 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xadd.net/ Why did someone buy a domain for this < 1322517976 871532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do when a pool is full anyway < 1322517991 649498 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collect. < 1322518011 650878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yeah but you need to reset the counter to be able to use this simple allocation stratergy < 1322518014 437138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even move data < 1322518019 825836 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: accesses to it will go into the 4k barrier page space and thus cause a page fault < 1322518025 214355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, this simple scheme can't handle skipping holes after all < 1322518039 157040 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Moving GCs are not magic. < 1322518040 464860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nor do modern GCs < 1322518047 685360 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone uses a pointer-bumping allocator these days < 1322518052 468805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322518053 58224 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just do it with a branch < 1322518054 36310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1322518059 342867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1322518062 100354 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, basically everyone but Boehm. < 1322518066 702780 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, which is why you allocate a new pool and compact as you move it there < 1322518071 300875 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Boehm only doesn't because it needs to work with C. < 1322518072 814140 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by copying contiguously. < 1322518073 304967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the glibc allocator for example was extent based < 1322518076 513956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.xadd.net/ Why did someone buy a domain for this <-- I thought you were in favour of foldl.whatever? < 1322518080 799151 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: glibc: "a garbage collector" < 1322518081 922119 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's *not* a GC. < 1322518086 670204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well true, not the case < 1322518089 287022 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those were cute, this is just silly < 1322518107 491042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, TLDs are getting increasingly obnoxious to remember < 1322518114 116078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they were used for their original purposes, there wouldn't be a problem < 1322518121 23104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there isn't really a TLD for "novelty website" < 1322518126 931689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322518136 675784 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, I have a .net that's actually an internet service provider! < 1322518137 767015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TLD system is just very poorly suited to the modern 'net. < 1322518144 102877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wow < 1322518157 610324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably something like Freenode can plausibly correctly be .net too < 1322518166 636431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the ccTLDs kind of work still. Except for US. < 1322518174 135855 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: admittedly, the service we provide is mainly a minecraft server < 1322518180 307401 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's an internet service that we're providing < 1322518182 580110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322518187 18685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322518188 460244 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and web hosts are considered ISPs, so I don't see why that shouldn't be < 1322518198 614779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, they are!? < 1322518213 150013 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In a sense. They provide a service on the Internet. < 1322518213 949661 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_service_provider < 1322518219 474229 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the technical meaning differs from the colloquial meaning < 1322518224 439534 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which only means "an actual internet link provider") < 1322518229 669494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well, that is not what people /usually/ mean by ISP < 1322518233 970872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, quite < 1322518236 22787 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, that page has the wrong definition < 1322518236 526725 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "a provider of Internet service". < 1322518242 568890 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prescriptivists :) < 1322518246 903193 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but .net was originally meant for the technical meaning < 1322518251 922828 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the colloquial one < 1322518252 760960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1322518257 587066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322518261 26549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread you < 1322518276 685598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but .net was originally meant for the technical meaning <-- that would include pretty much everything then < 1322518277 968713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think nowadays, I conclude that "internet service provider" and "ISP" actually have somewhat different meanings < 1322518300 84411 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really; a corporation not in the business of selling internet services wouldn't < 1322518316 767908 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a web server isn't really "providing" anything < 1322518321 493210 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1322518351 140828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm x68/x87 really doesn't have that many general purpose instructions. It just have a lot of variants of each one. It *does* have a lot of floating point and SIMD instructions though. < 1322518359 4298 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x68 < 1322518359 829460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x68? < 1322518365 50827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err x86 < 1322518365 901156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1322518368 560599 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only algol 68 coprocessor < 1322518371 307053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously :P < 1322518376 235684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, m68k is an arch < 1322518411 980315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still CISC obviously due to that nearly everything can do memory accesses. < 1322518421 166967 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't suppose there's a LOCK XADD AND ALSO JUMP HERE IF IT EXCEEDS A CERTAIN VALUE :) < 1322518429 5101 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, to phrase that another way: < 1322518432 917773 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do atomic allocations of >4k? < 1322518454 749578 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ouch, there's a nasty race condition even with atomic <4k allocations < 1322518469 584860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you have exactly 1 byte left in the pool, and two processes do 4k allocations at once? < 1322518474 407352 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them gets an address /beyond/ the barrier page < 1322518478 712610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I doubt there is. Possibly you could optimise if you know the allocation is larger/smaller than the size and do a slow path when you don't know. < 1322518481 594865 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might even be in some other task's valid memory < 1322518487 28484 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can access it freely < 1322518487 370597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322518495 310014 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-129.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322518514 188386 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you restrict pools to non-concurrent access you can solve that easily, by checking the pool pointer for overflow on context switch < 1322518522 186086 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1322518524 432957 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually a general flaw < 1322518531 758784 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allocate twice without actually accessing the RAM < 1322518533 994637 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-227-218.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322518540 561582 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the solution is to just ban allocating before you access a previous allocation < 1322518546 522642 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a big deal < 1322518568 660620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION works out how to mark a question where one of the requirements is "efficiently" < 1322518570 624222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you could allocate numtask*largest barrier memory? < 1322518585 758414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, this is easier than the mergesort issue, because I can populate the caches with invalid data and then see if the algo blindly trusts it < 1322518587 405958 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: huh? < 1322518592 118809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, it's not efficient < 1322518601 609211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if applicable look for complexity? < 1322518617 873724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I thought of that first, and it is possibly applicable < 1322518645 808891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average-case performance is probably the same, but I could make the worst-case performance for the most obvious unwanted method blow up < 1322518650 878623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably harder to write < 1322518665 9152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the same in terms of complexity, that is, not in overall performance) < 1322518669 375775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well if you can allocate at most n bytes if you have n*tasks_in_pool barrier memory it would be safe < 1322518679 460109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you access all before next allocation < 1322518688 946406 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you would have to allocate n*tasks < 1322518700 583979 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so = millions < 1322518704 711055 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can have < 1322518706 242698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1322518714 601963 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{2M pool page}, {4k barrier page}, {2M pool page of another task entirely} < 1322518720 340820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're 1 byte from the end of the first pool page < 1322518723 115826 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment 4k, increment 4k < 1322518726 556016 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in someone else's memory < 1322518731 622396 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it won't page fault when you access it < 1322518758 573010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322518758 791605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is that 2M huge page? < 1322518764 862369 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322518773 726904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, x86 can do unaligned ones? < 1322518776 144394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised < 1322518780 120384 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably not < 1322518782 165819 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a simplified example < 1322518789 366929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect them to have to be aligned on 2 MB boundaries < 1322518804 303521 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I used a 2M barrier page < 1322518807 237731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means your scheme would kind of not work very well, though beautiful < 1322518812 211306 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to increase the number of allocations < 1322518817 600740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1322518818 566158 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show that it's still a problem < 1322518821 33266 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it'll work fine < 1322518825 451627 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 megs is about as big as 4 megs < 1322518832 751442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322518834 387245 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only need to wait a few years for everybody's memory to double < 1322518884 607932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't think I will be getting 32 GB in a hurry :P < 1322518934 195425 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, one problem with this allocator style is that you have to calloc pools < 1322518947 71513 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, perhaps not < 1322518983 873662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you definitely don't want processes reading privileged data from leftover pools, so you have to statically ensure it's not used before alloc, or else zero it on the alloc < 1322518996 661029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm why would the code be allowed to read uninitialised memory? After all isn't the system generating the machine code from @lang? < 1322519005 333109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could ensure that didn't happen < 1322519013 390357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @lang programs aren't allowed to just arbitrarily read from their pool, ofc < 1322519018 176654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: right, indeed < 1322519022 597985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, then it shouldn't be a problem < 1322519026 190571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're only allowed to interpret it in ways they're allowed to < 1322519026 369546 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a Haskell compiler won't spit out code looking like that, so an @lang compiler won't either < 1322519031 119769 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the problem was: < 1322519039 966718 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GC has to look at the bytes in the heap to determine object structure < 1322519046 503683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322519047 971010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322519051 430598 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it know it's looking at a real, fully-allocated object, instead of just the garbage at the end? < 1322519054 156241 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's easy < 1322519054 550450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: bleh, no typed GC? < 1322519061 745869 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course it's "typed"... < 1322519063 132496 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's easy < 1322519065 930630 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the GC is only called on overflow < 1322519070 508751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, typed allocations. < 1322519071 500050 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you /know/ the last object wasn't fully allocated < 1322519082 667528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, of course; how do you think that solves the problem? < 1322519135 137389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the GC could see how far we allocated. And we might write a bit in a header of the allocation to indicate that we have allocated it but not yet used it < 1322519145 608626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, probably rather awkward way of doing it < 1322519177 508156 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't help < 1322519184 95162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1322519187 10660 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what happens when another CPU overflows the pool after incrementing pointer < 1322519190 808913 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before setting the bit < 1322519199 233149 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1322519202 267596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before _this_ cpu sets the bit < 1322519207 602656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1322519207 781509 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are all problems caused by concurrent pool access < 1322519218 800640 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't CPUs have transactional memory ffs < 1322519231 496082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, iirc powerpc does < 1322519233 611004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1322519244 253528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would surprise me < 1322519248 659741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it was load-store barriers < 1322519250 779266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322519261 303810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, they are considerably more powerful iirc < 1322519306 540662 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to just forbid concurrent access again and think of another way to do things < 1322519330 708663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322519338 565380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, concurrent access has another problem anyway < 1322519346 944628 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I could use small pools by default without the fancy barrier stuff and expand that on first gc < 1322519355 450052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is that of cache line ownership moving between CPUs < 1322519375 477514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. that will happen anyway < 1322519376 295754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache lines are iirc about 64 bytes or such < 1322519391 404158 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: since another task on the same pool will run on another CPU while other tasks on the same pool are stopped < 1322519406 749773 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could tie pools to CPUs but that sounds like a pain on e.g. 4-core systems < 1322519411 486846 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you just don't have many CPUs < 1322519422 116544 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where by "CPU" i mean "core") < 1322519425 219059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes but you don't want that to happen for no good reason. Sure it will happen when rescheduling. And when sharing a lock for something (and you will need locks for some stuff I bet, hardware access at the very least) < 1322519439 27823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like a lock for "accessing ethernet card memory mapped registers") < 1322519442 614176 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: what happens when another CPU overflows the pool after incrementing pointer < 1322519442 793556 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but before setting the bit < 1322519442 793767 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : as in < 1322519442 793876 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : before _this_ cpu sets the bit < 1322519444 950902 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of a solution to this < 1322519450 64878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1322519460 203547 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make the GC wait until every process on the pool allocates again < 1322519464 70580 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus causes another pagefault < 1322519466 706494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322519472 464071 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would ensure that no partial allocations have been done < 1322519532 687174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, actually no you can't. Segfault is a *nix term. The x86 term is general protection fault or page fault depending on what exactly you are doing < 1322519536 923309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1322519546 889803 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said segfault? < 1322519554 595081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh I misread < 1322519556 241569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322519559 884209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1322519566 122771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a double take on seeing "segfault" < 1322519568 734916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it wasn't there < 1322519571 35452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1322519611 227034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway wouldn't that go into the next page anyway? < 1322519617 787156 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, even if i don't use this fancy barrier page strategy < 1322519631 555640 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any way to avoid allocating one page per task if I'm going the "really lightweight, no concurrent access model" < 1322519635 414049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you plan to have much of a stack btw? < 1322519642 286837 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmm yes i could < 1322519650 308780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because allocation on a task local stack would be /way/ cheaper. < 1322519691 181048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that means at least two pages anyway... with the barrier page < 1322519798 456259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322519822 917157 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it wouldn't < 1322519825 864257 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack allocation is pointer-bumping < 1322519907 739533 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hmm, xadd (/without/ lock) will probably be slower than mov + add, right? thinking about a non-concurrent access scenario < 1322520104 277165 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stacks are basically thought to be faster because people use simpler allocators with them < 1322520112 924505 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, pointer-bumping < 1322520186 999595 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322520210 519785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1322520222 812670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack allocation is pointer-bumping <-- yes < 1322520230 498671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but you still need to detect stack overflow < 1322520246 371114 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. so it is more expensive than my allocator < 1322520270 859274 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't see how a stack would help < 1322520272 637893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what is your GC root btw? < 1322520288 338771 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the continuation < 1322520291 281384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322520350 622009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack allocators have one advantage: no need to GC. Because returning just bumps the pointer the other way < 1322520361 595508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: xadd without lock is not much more than mov+add. < 1322520368 666147 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: right. but it is more :) < 1322520382 982400 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they also require a traditional notion of stack < 1322520389 64408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1322520449 909215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say that the rep prefix of x86 is quite curious < 1322520514 194305 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful for boot sector golfing < 1322520519 781335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1322520523 366881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much else < 1322520545 261195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is truly a CISC left over < 1322520569 881076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is x86 < 1322520657 75153 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-40.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: nights < 1322520688 662071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, touche < 1322520819 637042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any VEX-encoded instruction with a LOCK prefix preceding VEX will #UD." <-- it doesn't say anything else under "VEX and the LOCK prefix". Like it would be useful to say if it works in the other order. < 1322520823 105157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you intel < 1322520840 28825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it doesn't < 1322520848 905787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because VEX isn't a prefix anyway < 1322520854 192112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why no LOCK on VEX? < 1322521431 650915 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like my tasks have to take up at least 144 bytes < 1322521441 113455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, impressive < 1322521450 754321 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_at least_ :P < 1322521457 273641 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the number of registers on x86-64, including IP < 1322521468 720370 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc if i don't use all registers for computation then they can take less... < 1322521481 323031 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if certain registers are always used as like scratch space before being put into memory < 1322521486 590607 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can avoid storing them < 1322521492 56385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "A newly spawned Erlang process uses 309 words of memory in the non-SMP emulator without HiPE support. (SMP support and HiPE support will both add to this size.)" < 1322521499 275679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far you beat erlang < 1322521510 917073 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why do they need that much? < 1322521514 703947 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.4 kilobytes is quite a lot < 1322521517 173257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1322521535 442139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it may include the default stack < 1322521536 426050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1322521541 743978 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, i just thought of a response to something ais said, but he's left < 1322521554 445028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :use @tell? < 1322521569 686765 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't have immediate payoff :) but fine! < 1322521578 49511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "The size includes 233 words for the heap area (which includes the stack). The garbage collector will increase the heap as needed." < 1322521582 128477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is why it is so large < 1322521593 516448 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 there's no real problem with a million-task scheduler with current technology; the issue is more adapting for various patterns of blocked/nonblocked < 1322521593 765118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322521628 983005 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 in @, there's no such thing as a "blocked task"; a blocked task's data (not necessarily including its pool data, just the pointer) is moved into whatever's being /blocked on/ < 1322521629 199939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322521636 924333 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 and then removed from the scheduler's list of tasks < 1322521637 162041 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322521638 295422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway so the real overhead is 76 words < 1322521655 54714 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 that is, sockets know which threads are blocked on them, and resume those threads when they receive data or whatever < 1322521655 249528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322521657 525779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, which is far smaller < 1322521662 189075 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, 608 bytes < 1322521683 693141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 304 on 32-bit < 1322521707 959557 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1322521712 525083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1322521716 926645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit systems still exist < 1322521721 267201 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for long < 1322521731 232109 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the pc market anyway < 1322521734 830609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1322521748 174271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but globally most processors are likely 16-bit or 8-bit still < 1322521754 434599 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but they don't run erlang < 1322521757 898764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1322521765 468306 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i think 32-bit is the most common nowadays actually, because of ARM in the embedded space < 1322521766 959744 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like that < 1322521774 713824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, still erlang can run on vxworks. Which opens up a whole embedded market < 1322521777 55734 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :full CPUs in embedded stuff is becomming more common < 1322521789 423329 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I don't think @ will work very well on 32-bit < 1322521793 243582 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in the embedded space < 1322521798 172700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322521804 496215 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not kidding < 1322521814 150032 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of disks do vxworks devices have :P < 1322521816 322159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 64-bit in embedded is rare. it is mostly consoles and PCs that are 64-bit < 1322521863 184073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm... the ones I used at university had either flash with some weird connector or plain CF cards. < 1322521868 412617 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, size < 1322521883 409009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well I have a CF card somewhere. Let me find a ruler ;) < 1322521892 265541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway it was a dev system. Kind of high end. < 1322521903 605208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like x86, pentium, 500 MHz < 1322521910 459518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something absurdly overpowered like that < 1322521917 159118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or 2 GB flash probably < 1322521928 918963 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a 32-bit @ system can address 4 gigabytes, total, including disk < 1322521930 427023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but it varies depending on applications :P < 1322521936 549765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ouch < 1322521945 445882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it works fine in like most embedded scenarios i guess < 1322521948 796534 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not on a desktop < 1322521962 752838 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can think of workarounds, but they're all sloooooooow < 1322521972 840842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there is large file system support on other systems. Obviously not on @ < 1322521987 522420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait, x86-64 systems actually have 48 bits virtual address space right? < 1322521990 466526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it doesn't really work because of the uniform address space < 1322521998 303286 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Currently. < 1322522002 561359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, indeed < 1322522003 534147 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you'd need to store all pointers as large filesystem addresses < 1322522010 433692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dereferencing those would be slow as shit < 1322522010 760509 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a limit of the MMU, not the ISA. < 1322522024 404130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means 35.18 TB < 1322522052 551115 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and? :P < 1322522064 503918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is kind of close to modern storage size. < 1322522100 72673 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when single machines start addressing 35 terabytes, AMD and Intel will start releasing CPUs with MMUs that can address 64 bits. < 1322522104 774739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 54 bits or whatever :P < 1322522106 290478 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Better/worse: you could use segmentation. < 1322522121 328265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I have like slightly more than 1/17th of that in disks in my computer < 1322522129 34075 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't see how that would work; pointers would have to store the segment they're in < 1322522135 771101 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: moore's law doesn't work _that_ fast. < 1322522136 594374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I meant for disks, Not for ram < 1322522148 139266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, since you do uniform address space < 1322522153 274166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the disk size matters for you < 1322522157 677861 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I contradict that? < 1322522162 248696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1322522181 748198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I was just finishing my line of thought before reading further. I use blocking IO < 1322522186 86422 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm pretty sure that the MMU bit width will increase when we're living in the space age and people have 35 terabytes of disk. < 1322522186 889909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my brain < 1322522196 225643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Segments map to physical space. Recent x86 has 36-bit address space. :P < 1322522198 20036 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it doesn't, 35 terabytes is a lot of storage. < 1322522214 325727 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you, as a person, will need >35 terabytes of personal storage before @ takes over the world. < 1322522225 930097 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's still tiny :P < 1322522244 80634 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Also, alternately you *could* make it so that far pointer dereferencing is the expensive operation. < 1322522251 38706 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nets you a potentially 46-bit address space. < 1322522260 820608 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be an *insane* hack, though. < 1322522287 143560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 35 TB is ~1501 blueray disc < 1322522305 714802 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I will consider your concerns if you personally buy 1501 blu-ray discs. < 1322522319 598889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I'll torrent them < 1322522329 282321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wonder how much traffic I download in a year < 1322522331 92371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you use sane encodings, chop a order of magnitude off that. < 1322522335 465254 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x264 is awesome shit) < 1322522336 787585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err how much traffic downstream I mean < 1322522349 225265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, who said movies < 1322522358 324719 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to find a blank blu-ray on Amazon. < 1322522360 330590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, games on blueray happens nowdays < 1322522371 315765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I downloaded a 25 GB game at one point < 1322522373 275872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Technically, yes. They're generally empty. < 1322522384 541306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, nope. Rage was 25 GB download < 1322522390 652105 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to targetting DVD platforms as well, and nobody likes multiple disks. < 1322522392 949208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 24 or so < 1322522409 141913 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus, what did they include, the genomes of all sequenced species? < 1322522418 51993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, really bad texture quality < 1322522422 770509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the install size was 27 GB iirc < 1322522449 106235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, iirc they said the raw data of the game they had on their development servers was over 1 TB < 1322522475 156110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, and Rage is a really bad game. Boring, uninspired story, mediocre gameplay < 1322522482 104601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite uneven texture quality < 1322522492 965602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything from state of the art to something utterly jagged. < 1322522503 269727 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322522539 479332 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Higher res is better. Derp, scale!"? < 1322522559 276931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it feels like a tech demo for the engine to tell the truth :P < 1322522606 836943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the skydome was truly impressive though < 1322522698 998434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, anyway there are many games that come on dual layer DVDs these days < 1322522719 324154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc witcher 2 was about 7 GB large download. Somewhat more when installed on disk < 1322522735 358323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that game has high texture quality and good gameplay and everything :P < 1322522762 994216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm system requirements is 16 GB free disk < 1322522837 481054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, speaking of which... that is a rare game these days. Witcher 2 is completely DRM free. < 1322522859 662418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except when bought from steam iirc) < 1322522996 415221 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steam has DRM? < 1322523007 100159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, where have you been? < 1322523012 311801 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not using Steam. < 1322523018 85907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322523039 679409 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sucks. < 1322523042 971792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, steam has DRM that is fairly easy to work around by replacing a few dll files < 1322523057 528837 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easier to pirate, no? < 1322523060 790369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacement ones are kind of well developed already < 1322523065 304253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, pretty much. < 1322523106 752218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all steam games use the drm of course < 1322523130 42031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally you know when a game refuses to run without steam running, then it uses the drm < 1322523133 802572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like skyrim does < 1322523142 524565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: easy to work around :P) < 1322523145 187155 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross. < 1322523171 722195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes we are talking about steam indeed :P < 1322523187 886342 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people like Steam again? < 1322523229 192366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, because it was first and it is convenient. And there are far worse DRM examples. < 1322523253 443690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But I've actually seen people rejoice when games they already own became available on Steam. < 1322523258 227579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and because it has all the games (pretty much). Which it does because it is popular with the users. < 1322523265 577121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, really? < 1322523267 32732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1322523275 787936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is it for the steam achievements? < 1322523284 223817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe... < 1322523287 337447 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The only reasons I've heard are because of the "social" features of it and the achievements and crap. Which I find completely incomprehensible. < 1322523308 927011 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'd prefer to just ask people if they want a game rather than cyberstalking them for the purpose. < 1322523311 959031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh yeah you can use it for easy invites to friends for multiplayer games iirc. < 1322523314 899806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of nice < 1322523316 374555 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And achievements are a scourge. < 1322523331 340905 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Achievements are what happen when you can't think of a decent in-game way to reward players for doing things. < 1322523337 857328 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you decide to annoy them instead < 1322523340 430145 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1322523348 487918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is easier to click a friend's name in a list than to ask them to provide a port number and so on < 1322523383 769707 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is used to playing multiplayer games with decent lobby systems. < 1322523393 429845 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly skipping the lobby entirely would be preferable. < 1322523395 248240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Achievements are what happen when you can't think of a decent in-game way to reward players for doing things. <-- I like stuff that are kind of like achievements but are for the current game only and have an in game effect < 1322523410 482942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not achievements. < 1322523444 987059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like, in witcher 2, if you stay within a protective spell bubble during a part of the introduction of chapter 1 you get a +5 or something bonus to something < 1322523449 334982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1322523477 279633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or following a certain path doing a certain mission within certain parameters grants you 100 extra carrying capacity < 1322523521 64497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway you might want to reward a player who went through the entire game without killing any enemy, using sneaking and such instead. < 1322523526 170701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do that? < 1322523533 793540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :achievement is the usual answer < 1322523537 554597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, badges at the end are OK < 1322523544 343238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322523546 949958 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Achievements that happen mid-game not so much < 1322523550 456276 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1322523550 635194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1322523553 398297 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's just for things like easter eggs sure < 1322523557 329244 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's like "100 kills" fuck that < 1322523604 866327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what about stuff like "navigated down a steep hill without taking fall damage". Yogscast suggested that should be an achievement in skyrim (it isn't, it has the boring type of achievements, mostly "did questline x") < 1322523625 101335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it would be hard to measure that < 1322523636 115289 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322523657 834320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but yes, I seen pretty bad achievements. And I seen less bad ones. < 1322523663 655299 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The achievement comes from managing that in the first place :P < 1322523668 688871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322523676 636905 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's obvious that you've done something hard, you don't need to yell at players that they've done it < 1322523682 770775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but you want something you can brag about on your steam profile! < 1322523685 755526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1322523745 643675 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Do you know much about hardware virtualisation < 1322523782 818421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway I remember reading about some game where the devs put in achievements for stuff they thought were so improbable that they were for all practical purposes impossible. Just to see how long it took for players to figure out a way to do them. < 1322523789 559671 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322523799 880481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :all were done within a year iirc < 1322523803 535052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot which game it was < 1322523808 424158 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322523817 102067 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322523879 711675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway gamersgate is a better online store than steam really. No silly client crap. < 1322523969 344941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, another one I heard was good but which I never used myself is desura. Mostly focused on indie stuff iirc < 1322523981 241450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so there are alternatives to steam that are less shitty < 1322523985 984204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as popular < 1322523994 31030 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desura has a client thing. < 1322524010 164115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, but a less obnoxious one < 1322524012 930017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by far < 1322524026 731739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ever happened to just delivering binaries. < 1322524055 128315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is gamersgate. They let you download a downloader program basically. And then that downloads the binary. < 1322524057 577004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so almost :P < 1322524071 828782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a downloader makes sense on windows because I doubt IE can resume a broken download < 1322524077 270572 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses IE < 1322524082 490524 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Firefox sucks at resuming downloads < 1322524085 100951 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Chrome too < 1322524085 597688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1322524094 186939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so that is why they use a downloader < 1322524098 524009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use wget for such stuff < 1322524103 446796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget -c works wonders < 1322524194 935280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322524195 890565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322524204 868479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh gamersgate is a Swedish company? Didn't know that < 1322524225 333899 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322524299 884663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does scan.co.uk have to be so unusable. < 1322524408 60118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Not much. < 1322524412 978316 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Damn < 1322524436 774056 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So you wouldn't know how expensive something in ring 0 calling on the hypervisor would be? < 1322524948 337394 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1322524954 930868 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1322525128 874650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, benchmark it? < 1322525134 734114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay that is a LOT of work I know) < 1322525169 702196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway I'm pretty sure hypervisor is more expensive than syscall. Or at least as expensive. < 1322525188 139658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else would greatly surprise me < 1322525456 39843 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322526170 129909 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322526756 95960 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322527765 897663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322528449 575983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322528449 755176 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322528876 9072 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322528967 467201 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322530062 382656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The operating system was "inspired by the literary heritage of Dante Alighieri (particularly the Divine Comedy)"? What kind of sense does that make? I challenge anybody to tell me what it was about Dante's philosophy, politics, writing style or anything else that inspired this operating system." < 1322530704 697967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1322530953 347605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322531363 986580 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 rings are not unlike the circles of hell < 1322531985 326856 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322532258 668166 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hlep < 1322532268 108496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: :D < 1322532271 556765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: one cannot be hlepped < 1322532278 422017 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad day < 1322532404 751505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but go on < 1322532469 441251 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sam is crouched behind a desk with two guns pointed at him. he has a tiny revolver with four bullets. he has two guns pointed at him. his girlfriend is tied up with an enemy pointing another gun at her head. save him without a deus ex machina. she can die. < 1322532485 787973 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but she can't die by brains blowing cuz she has to say stuff before she dies < 1322532584 546495 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh < 1322532592 510007 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we see sam's character sheet first? < 1322532632 775338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: shoot the girlfriend, use element of surprise to escape < 1322532657 82909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not brains blowing, shoot the heart instead or w/e < 1322532661 907368 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wouldn't shoot his girlfriend... < 1322532665 774077 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would he... < 1322532667 354266 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322532667 904262 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322532679 523814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that wasn't one of the requirements < 1322532687 180572 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's his girlfriend!!!!! < 1322532690 121378 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :She asks him to shoot her, he shoots her, and escapes < 1322532696 326039 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, all criteria met < 1322532705 204991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: won't be his girlfriend if he dies, will she? < 1322532705 383813 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322532706 992452 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's pregnant. why would she ask him to shoot her? < 1322532710 953354 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's basically fucked on the girlfriend front, either way < 1322532728 452087 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but he i don't want him to do anything out of character < 1322532745 718705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: shoot a precisely-aimed bullet at the girlfriend so that her womb bursts open; grab baby and escape < 1322532746 41354 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sam hypnotizes the enemies < 1322532747 531744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% realistic < 1322532755 891032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens all the time < 1322532773 332544 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're Tarantino, shoot her in the side of the head. < 1322532773 686505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened to me the other week, someone shot me and my baby escaped < 1322532774 517599 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's only like 2 mos preggo < 1322532778 222914 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no baby yet just fetus < 1322532788 771207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sam believes that life begins at conception. < 1322532790 106855 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :walking fetus! < 1322532828 721246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: so what is the uh < 1322532829 699740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :context here < 1322532839 504143 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a novel i'm writing? < 1322532862 183813 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts in media res < 1322532890 950147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i suggest not getting sam in that situation < 1322532903 447022 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Novels with guns are shitty anyways < 1322532928 226596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yeah they should be using uh < 1322532931 727568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bows 'n arrows instead < 1322532936 472565 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322532942 776154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :archery II: this time it's personal < 1322532946 87284 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more exciting to have him in that situation < 1322532955 831910 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have an idea < 1322532962 603552 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks text adventure < 1322532964 742054 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :>look < 1322532969 695203 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cloaks 'n daggers < 1322532972 180673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: have him start just like < 1322532973 144073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dancing < 1322532981 39137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just starts dancing < 1322532983 698422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the people with guns < 1322532991 418230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he does a jig over to his girlfriend < 1322532993 393498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kicks her out the window < 1322532995 324935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then jumps after her < 1322532998 955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a trampoline underneath < 1322532998 489179 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1322532999 474361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he bounces back up < 1322533001 788739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shoots the bad guys < 1322533003 228813 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1322533005 960335 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :best < 1322533027 549903 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot about that patio outside! < 1322533058 20742 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he pulls the deskk drawer out < 1322533071 910960 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :throws its contents at the guy with the girlfriend < 1322533095 291862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the other dudes will just shoot him... < 1322533117 647264 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desks are bulletproof, man. < 1322533135 711511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322533173 444831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a *big* desk < 1322533213 593481 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-85.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322533223 44754 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-200-237.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322533239 905701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then he jumps over the desk and runs at him with the other dudes shooting at him. but he shields himself with the desk drawer. < 1322533246 792230 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. it could happen. < 1322533269 480580 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hollywood in writing < 1322533304 696961 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know...its all so cliche :P < 1322533320 189933 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that sounds more like a John Woo thing < 1322533339 843904 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then he gets shot some when they figure out to shoot low... < 1322533366 691833 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then... < 1322533370 216284 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :rocks fall, everyone dies < 1322533377 409480 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sam looks behind him and sees a fire extinguisher. He grabs it and uses it to lay down a smoke screen < 1322533385 635108 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit good idea < 1322533452 768414 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not knowing where he is, they start shooting at random and hit each other < 1322533455 543868 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end < 1322533513 982588 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you have two days to finish the novel? < 1322533697 727393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this novel is terrible < 1322533905 881904 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter if it is terrible < 1322533907 346631 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fun < 1322536274 970454 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322536299 153407 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they really need to do an fps crossed with secondlife < 1322536323 392480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not specifically secondlife but something like that < 1322537196 32415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322537225 618715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322537231 893242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you used Emscripten? < 1322537926 534104 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322538000 443954 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322538377 329311 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322538960 366304 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322539294 161402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1322539453 323379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322539553 296832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 PM is an interesting time to wake up. < 1322539600 611678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322539984 788068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal so in one of the earlier missions of Magicka there's this dude that freaks out about goblins and says a bunch of hilarious gibberish; is any of that Swedish? < 1322539985 3210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322540484 241866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goblins? < 1322540507 903798 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't seem to recall any goblins < 1322540543 741251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322540548 905294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lie. < 1322540584 512566 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1322540602 242521 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say no goblins were ever mentioned, just that I don't remember goblins being mentioned < 1322540615 713332 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are talking about Puella Magi Madoka Magica, right? < 1322540617 77830 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean "Note: this does not yield a monad unless the argument monad is commutative. " < 1322540680 183749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in the context of what? < 1322540691 92488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes of course. < 1322540692 237025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing < 1322540694 374378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I don't know of. < 1322540724 486710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ListT < 1322540755 989349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi #esoteric < 1322540765 404830 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job sgeo < 1322540768 324685 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that's just the standard implementation that has that issue, I think? < 1322540776 17195 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't understand it either. < 1322540780 622756 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, hm? < 1322540799 649903 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure magicka is a game kallisti plays < 1322540803 551450 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322540820 162354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy smart < 1322540941 320896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does ListT mean anything other than the "standard implementation"? < 1322540959 324275 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, "ListT done right"? < 1322541124 796175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should I know < 1322541208 745012 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322541211 764763 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322541220 35971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no need to keep referencing/commenting on the past to validate the present and future as a sort of musical emollient for the masses. All artists plunder from everywhere, so did Simon and Garfunkel but to put Fleetfoxes into a neat box of "our generations Simon and Garfunkel" is really missing the point in a major way and quite insulting to FFs. I'm listening carefully to music 30 years, and I've never heard anyt < 1322541227 10569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube comments are great. < 1322541251 171183 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322541618 111525 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322541637 317433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ping < 1322541709 665499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there another kind of ListT? < 1322541756 437293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Amb :-) < 1322541794 194243 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pong < 1322541811 777962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I'm too dead to read this code. < 1322541814 201224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I thought I had a question, but then I realised that clang almost certainly does -m32, so I lost my question < 1322541852 229556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can read cut < 1322541858 161591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clears the state list. < 1322541858 379164 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322541861 108890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smart. < 1322542112 523338 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1322542324 896166 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fleet Foxes are so authentic, they use reverb effect on every track < 1322542365 661724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: true authenticity comes from having reverb right in your SOUL < 1322542450 324636 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, are you a dual? < 1322542700 30507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: elliott: lolwhat < 1322543269 637124 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti: UPDATE < 1322543305 741114 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1322543567 710871 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322544033 754337 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322544872 290354 :TheJimmyJames1!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322545634 624389 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322545970 25408 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should a function be called: BarrierT f b m t -> BarrierT (f, b -> BarrierT f b m t) (BarrierT f b m t) m t and Barrier f b t -> Barrier (f, b -> Barrier f b t) (Barrier f b t) t < 1322546130 515465 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322546546 961697 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322546759 317926 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322546973 565941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor pachelbel < 1322546973 915847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322547119 886231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322547277 397875 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what such functions and there inverse would be called? I don't know. < 1322547344 11702 :TheJimmyJames1!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.158 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322547780 810082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf my dns is broken < 1322547781 518388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322547830 827847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DNS breaks sometimes in my computer, and then later it is fixed. < 1322547857 647977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't remember which part you refer to. But in general the voiced over dialogue is mostly made up language with some English and Swedish words thrown in. < 1322547870 809327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb going to restart my bouncer < 1322547878 664216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dns is broken for most other networks < 1322547881 827524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wtf...) < 1322547886 195805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1322547924 446966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322547957 947183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is routing to half the internet that is broken < 1322548030 996577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf ping works but connecting does not? < 1322548036 287920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nor does traceroute < 1322548066 57146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Client Quit < 1322548102 614212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322548135 637715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not that either. Everything works fine from my laptop... < 1322548155 91206 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know?????? < 1322548203 57253 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322548266 754200 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions of the names of the functions I have described? < 1322548503 506465 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322548542 877345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1322548577 457827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322548696 300531 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.125.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322549084 413783 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322549198 164969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1322549270 388228 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.125.119 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322549367 850961 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322549373 533214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit why must the godel's letter comment feed be limited to 10 comments < 1322549399 463700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goedel's letter. not goedel's last letter. not goedel's first letter < 1322549399 937293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1322549401 397018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goedel's letter < 1322549414 367129 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+lost < 1322549438 585287 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time the two MrX and Pelotom trolls and counter-trolls post i lose messages and end up hunting around recent posts < 1322549823 817940 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322549874 955225 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1322549898 967623 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.158 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322549901 927562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1322549946 469580 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone tried to answer my questions but seems as they did not understand this question. Did you even understand that? < 1322550180 442544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any NSF music files use the track numbers to specify different variations (such as repeat vs non-repeat, equal temperament vs just intonation, etc) instead of another song? < 1322550358 965176 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.110.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322550362 313608 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.110.44 QUIT :Changing host < 1322550362 492505 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322550779 284533 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION braces for embarrasment by commenting on the issue on the blog again. < 1322550821 936205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in "why don't you just do this" embarassment) < 1322551107 431907 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1322551334 83429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322551747 892571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322552150 88568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322552153 594898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a new username for things. < 1322552165 565117 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad_apple < 1322552175 442285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one must never be afraid of embarassment < 1322552182 276766 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1322552187 622717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ARE ALL FOOLS < 1322552194 375761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is foolish to pretend you are not. < 1322552195 975689 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one should also learn to fly by flapping one's arms. < 1322552206 94438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no... < 1322552228 404245 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why not? it's approximately as easy. < 1322552241 545031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F9RJSPnf8A < 1322552243 761090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is better. < 1322552505 630803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1322552510 9855 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not flying, that's falling with style. < 1322552541 524202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322552543 319469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322552606 822386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I want to do this, but I know I'd just crash into some rocks < 1322552670 448083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :. The United States Parachute Association (USPA) requires in the Skydivers Information Manual that any jumper flying a wingsuit for the first time have a minimum of 200 freefall skydives, made within the past 18 months, and receive one-on-one instruction from an experienced wing suit jumper, or 500 jumps experience to go without an instructor.[16] Requirements in other nations are similar. Wingsuit manufacturers offer train < 1322552757 269279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@cl-394.sto-01.se.sixxs.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322552761 745776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@cl-394.sto-01.se.sixxs.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322552761 924928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322552803 378205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.585378] pci_root PNP0A08:00: address space collision: host bridge window [mem 0x000c8000-0x000dffff] conflicts with Video ROM [mem 0x000c0000-0x000cffff] < 1322552804 512484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnh < 1322553124 804955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I want to jump off a skyscraper in one of those wingsuits < 1322553136 751369 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then follow.... a carefully planned route so I doubt crash into anything. < 1322553177 451078 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be worried about turbulence. < 1322553198 700100 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if there were any chance of getting beyond my immense fear of heights, that is. < 1322553216 360613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd be worried about a stray gust of wind. < 1322553221 849748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they only fly when there's no wind? < 1322553253 78167 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was more or less the same thing. < 1322553273 797620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :turbulence is a more abrupt change < 1322553275 628591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most contexts < 1322553283 339003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :These techniques include the orientation relative to the aircraft and the airflow while exiting, and the way in which the flier will spread his legs and arms at the proper time so as not to hit the aircraft or become unstable in the relative wind. < 1322553291 957546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, they could just decrease surface area if they need to < 1322553348 567240 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pbfcomics.com/28/ < 1322553454 623503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :With body shape manipulation and by choosing the design characteristics of the wingsuit, a flier can alter both his forward speed and fall rate. The pilot manipulates these flight characteristics by changing the shape of his torso, arching or bending at the shoulders, hips, and knees, and by changing the angle of attack in which the wingsuit flies in the relative wind, and by the amount of tension applied to the fabric wing < 1322553460 753052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how they like < 1322553463 180616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make themselves rotate. < 1322553516 398851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :While still very experimental, powered wingsuits, often using small jet engines strapped to the feet[13] or a wingpack set-up, allow for even greater horizontal travel and even ascent. < 1322553520 281211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322553520 894119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1322553560 833163 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proper term is "holy wtf batman". < 1322553566 546193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322553732 58822 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322553929 990918 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the batwingsuit < 1322554072 854226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4arnATc04U < 1322554074 489353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so good < 1322554172 402735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I bet being in the jet is more comfortable :P < 1322554211 473152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also those jets are flying rather slowly (for jets that is) < 1322554233 890407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah... < 1322554362 457510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still his power to weight ratio is going to be pretty high because... well it's just a carbon-fiber wingspan and a person. < 1322554383 440471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just lacks much fuel I'd imagine. < 1322554451 236086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and the human body can only take so much... < 1322554486 384330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt air speed and so on < 1322554823 537089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches a man fly over the English Channel in a JETPACK < 1322554876 187842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally it is not how I would chose to commute < 1322554933 373760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you're boring. < 1322555128 883345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: got a link to the video though? < 1322555174 663958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1322555201 222327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as interesting as the grand canyon vid < 1322555262 189467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgdIE2t8QkM < 1322555422 826628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does some neat stunts in that one. < 1322555924 637293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: obviously you don't do stunts when commuting :P < 1322556052 882315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION zzzzzzs < 1322556075 285260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: creeper with dyslexia? < 1322556087 821364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1322556091 104129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that sound < 1322556105 894486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1322556117 266132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a thing < 1322556119 691550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that indicates sleeping < 1322556121 786451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you never played minecraft? < 1322556133 804038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322556138 802943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1322556139 111178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322556141 642693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh < 1322556141 822425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have better things to do < 1322556143 810607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322556146 650436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on it is fun < 1322556157 495759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1322556163 492070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: have you tried it? < 1322556171 374967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't mean the free classic version < 1322556171 561168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen people play it. < 1322556177 925267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have a pretty good imagination < 1322556178 912600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1322556181 882818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine playing it < 1322556183 766007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even having to < 1322556185 830069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the neatest thing. < 1322556190 617915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well at least it isn't like starcraft. I watched people play that. Seems utterly boring. < 1322556199 386836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that is where you are wrong. < 1322556209 476230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :starcraft is like real-time chess on crack. < 1322556218 463156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which is utterly boring < 1322556260 616410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I tried many RTS, but so far I only found one fun to play: darwinia. < 1322556281 2162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbwG63KVQz4 < 1322556284 527083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this game is good. < 1322556301 200222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is there any jargon in it? < 1322556312 431655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1322556319 78318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Husky is pretty good at explaining what is happening < 1322556320 533598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like < 1322556324 350741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :know starcraft basics < 1322556334 598473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1322556347 805217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says "macro" < 1322556351 603455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really very jargony < 1322556359 203358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: meaning like autohotkey? < 1322556362 883162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1322556364 913944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :macromanagement < 1322556367 229469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1322556373 502433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it refers to how you produce and spend money. < 1322556374 802520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your economy. < 1322556376 952805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit production < 1322556377 770665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1322556395 513768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: he has an annoying voice IMO < 1322556407 444111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you expand to new bases, when you research new tech, and what units you produce... are basically the three important points of macro. < 1322556411 738294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to leave for university soon, won't be able to watch the whole thing now < 1322556413 505124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you get used to it :P < 1322556442 175765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also "micro" which is micromanagement... which is movement of individual units / multitasking < 1322556463 298272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about micromanagement. I played dwarf fortress. Which is not exactly RTS. Still fun though. < 1322556468 453959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ever played dwarf fortress? < 1322556475 114310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322556477 688585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun. < 1322556479 575784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322556485 332505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: micro has a more specific meaning than it's usual meaning. < 1322556486 894647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sc2 < 1322556489 955906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1322556574 633567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway, I prefer sandbox games. Like minecraft and dwarf fortress. < 1322556577 597543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or RPGs < 1322556586 987072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :open world RPGs are especially fun < 1322556597 25821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, I just don't like minecraft because it's not a fun game. :P < 1322556613 93234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also like strategy/competitive real-time games < 1322556617 206973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it sure is. Sure the combat is meh. I prefer creative. < 1322556631 786287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some FPSes, super smash bros, magicka, starcraft, < 1322556646 94325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of suck at aiming at moving objects :P < 1322556654 609349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm okay with stealth based FPS < 1322556659 828886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like deus ex < 1322556666 107068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite FPS game is zombies mod in CoD actually. don't really like the multiplayer but the zombies mode is very fun. < 1322556675 73082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mode < 1322556675 909091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1322556718 903168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my max round is 32 on the kino der toten map < 1322556722 339304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :solo < 1322556728 671347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The only FPSes I found fun to play are ones that are RPG-FPS mixes really. Like Deus Ex Human Revolution. Or Fallout New Vegas (haven't played Fallout 3) < 1322556744 134490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite for me on the fallout stuffs < 1322556748 145776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played fallout 3 < 1322556756 632212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the mechanics are pretty similar < 1322556761 952483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different setting and story < 1322556766 609627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it. < 1322556776 445929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mechanics are a little different also. they changed some skills around. < 1322556783 702354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322556787 710594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the crafting stuff < 1322556789 935433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the VATS system is interesting < 1322556798 154958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vats system is boring. :( < 1322556807 647985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1322556810 489819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1322556812 610369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1322556815 819229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with all the vats-related perks. < 1322556820 878920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322556832 123639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically just vats everything and..... continue vatsing everything < 1322556832 654147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to leave. Cya < 1322556836 205387 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmk < 1322556837 380902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: actually no < 1322556855 276222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: VATS isn't realistic for sniper rifle over long distance at a large unmoving target < 1322556864 11531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :VATS underestimate the chance to hit then < 1322556865 253863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1322556877 478688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... kAY? :p BYE < 1322556917 166147 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The chance to hit depends on your screen resolution, too < 1322557015 565205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNFAIR! < 1322557018 317633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322557063 898988 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the bullets are instantaneous rays anyway, so it doesn't matter if they're moving < 1322557085 68725 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't think vats is based on your screen res. < 1322557102 669819 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but manual aiming can be < 1322557117 511011 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you max out your character so that there's no sway < 1322557138 591856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD TVS ARE OVERPOWERED. QQ < 1322557150 95771 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, they have only HD resolution. < 1322557162 653682 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing on my 2560x1440 < 1322557204 339314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, did Bethesda really use the same game engine for four games? < 1322557218 59924 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just feels like they pulled something on the world < 1322557266 893027 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322557383 470395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: sort of. < 1322557395 153822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: they used a new AI for the NPCs in skyrim < 1322557403 91682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there have been improvements. < 1322557411 366670 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiny rocks < 1322557424 682757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphics, yes. shiny interfaces. < 1322557474 682799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and, uh, giant fucking worlds filled with towns, caves, dungeons, random encounters, every NPC having voice-overs, multiple options for quests, etc. < 1322557495 334509 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new AI isn't any more believable than the Oblivion ones, though < 1322557497 679588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like they're getting away with anything. < 1322557502 847642 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the NPC animations doing the most of the work < 1322557504 654266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well yeah, but it's new nonetheless < 1322557530 23770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing was pulled, I think. I believe they've put plenty of work into each game. < 1322557532 798958 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NPCs tilting their heads actually goes a long way to create realism < 1322557544 997600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than before, certainly < 1322557594 971395 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when you set out to create a game on the scale that Bethesda does, you normally wouldn't want to release it in a rough, bug-ridden state like Bethesda does. < 1322557731 713513 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322558011 834629 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322558013 963512 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :skyrim < 1322558017 416385 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1322558054 834007 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminded me of my second pc which runs the game constantly for 3 days < 1322558886 727059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott amb is interesting. It does something similar to what I have in mind for my graph language, except that in the graph language it will be implicit to every change of state. < 1322558886 909406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322558940 756830 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot - the Siri of IRC < 1322559039 702486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti to stop using @tell < 1322559039 902172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1322559045 123141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: thanks < 1322559550 838940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322559561 984679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks out Oz to see how it efficiently does constraint programming. < 1322559731 133736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure if any of this is relevant though < 1322560255 682250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically the syntax would look something like.... < 1322560281 49249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :constraint { node -> replacement; node -> replacement; ... } < 1322560291 149598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the symbols can be changed later if desired. < 1322560381 24355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the same node is replaced by two rules then this essentially creates two nodes with past edges that point back to the original node. < 1322560396 996972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of non-deterministic split. < 1322560461 6700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the somewhat annoying problem of determining the order of execution of graph rewriting rules < 1322560464 602069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is.. no longer a problem. < 1322560636 675524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I should start working on a) what constraints look like b) how to define predicates to use in constraints c) how to define functions in general d) some built-in operations e) how to refer to nodes < 1322560649 788065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the constraint would have variables... so like < 1322560674 706832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > 2 { X -> X+1 } < 1322560709 984680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X here refers to any node. if a node satisfied the constraint, then it's replaced by the node that's produced from adding one to the node's value. < 1322560821 88221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > Y { X -> null } < 1322560827 292780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would delete every node but the smallest. < 1322560881 79949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(delete is kind of the incorrect word, as you can still backtrack) < 1322561167 694212 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322561175 112121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hello < 1322561204 988921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also want things like.... < 1322561220 171769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > Y { X -> past(X) } < 1322561230 691956 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7a53.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322561262 841674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would replace X with a past node of itself. since there could possibly be more than one past node this is non-deterministic. < 1322561287 334264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay I could just have sets. < 1322561298 751687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > Y { X -> [X, X+1] } < 1322561323 623749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace all non-minimum nodes with both itself and itself plus 1 < 1322561342 980718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have a | which applys constraints to sets. < 1322561420 626904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like... < 1322561467 201574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > Y { X -> e in past(X) | e = e^2 } < 1322561541 936717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.... < 1322561607 118900 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > Y { X -> a,b in past(X) | distance(X,a) > distance(X, b) } < 1322561617 840059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to revert to the most recent past node. < 1322561695 817859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimum(X) := a,b in X | distance(X, a) > distance(X, b) < 1322561722 862592 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X > Y { X -> minimum(past(X)) } < 1322561734 240328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1322561734 743700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322561735 878420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1322561746 211698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work :P < 1322561766 731077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need something like... < 1322561797 570153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimum(X) := b where a,b in X | distance(X, a) > distance(X, b) < 1322561816 648853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(will improve the syntax of these things at some point) < 1322562055 137856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = [1..5] in [b | a <- x, b <- x, a > b] < 1322562055 660435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4] < 1322562059 342004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322562098 319803 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1322562261 133117 :azaq23!str1442@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322562277 111514 :azaq23!str1442@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1322562430 37574 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1322562570 62884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322562638 200977 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322563257 221980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = [1..5] in [b | let s = join(liftA2(,))x, (a,b) <- s, a > b] < 1322563258 63511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4] < 1322563260 777508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322563273 196300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1322563321 819560 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concat . init . inits $ [1..5] < 1322563323 850484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4] < 1322563374 681341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, weren't you going to sleep?... < 1322563452 2224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t init < 1322563452 971797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322563453 159235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a] < 1322563457 595271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hello < 1322563459 874196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322563463 295844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1322563469 775302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> init [1,2,3,4,5] < 1322563470 798724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4] < 1322563472 895312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards tail? < 1322563477 792566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, pretty sure you said like "zzzzzs" or something < 1322563477 979973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually zzzzzing because you were putting me to sleep. :P < 1322563482 5481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh < 1322563490 257977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ha ha ha < 1322563524 334880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that is some interesting xmas decoration in the window to the robotics lab here at university < 1322563535 49518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how do you implement minimum on a set without doing something like a fold < 1322563552 455456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, you could do an associative fold < 1322563557 464492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same as foldl or foldr < 1322563563 675075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you might still consider it as being like a fold < 1322563582 114544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically LEDs mounted on a fan, rotating. The LEDs are synced to the rotation so they spell out a word < 1322563587 176634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnh, did that get through? Just lost wlan for a bit < 1322563589 166076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :("God Jul", Swedish for "Merry Christmas") < 1322563608 684839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck microwave ovens. < 1322563611 996383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess actually what I'm asking < 1322563614 721066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mess up wlan badly < 1322563628 901743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how do you use universal quantification to get the minimum of a set. < 1322563639 150283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322563640 123529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1322563663 198413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :exists a. forall b. a < b < 1322563666 731283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and the time too < 1322563668 417739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the fan < 1322563700 647864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm my mother seems to be under the impression that second-hand hookah vapor is somehow going to be bad for her because she has asthma. < 1322563707 607231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is probably not true. < 1322563975 277856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm on the other side of the house < 1322566895 479547 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322566919 900502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1322566921 37714 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1322566925 560694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X just exited for no obvious reason… < 1322567056 380356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I love when that happens. < 1322567232 984427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there's garbage on tty2 < 1322567305 160904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: data has feelings too. just because no one's using it doesn't mean it's not data. < 1322567319 429522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :garbage is insulting to those poor bits. :( < 1322567332 743346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*desert login: 1*41*41*41*41*4Password: HHHHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPHHHHQQQQQPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPUbuntu 10.04.3 LTS desert tty2 < 1322567334 233023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : desert login: < 1322567343 341076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: that isn't actually my password) < 1322567349 945307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good password < 1322567475 485083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor my username) < 1322569342 225696 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1322570227 948783 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :augur[afk] < 1322570664 42394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322570790 958742 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322570791 155884 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322570791 156071 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322570847 831929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322570851 998060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322570889 851488 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322570972 895469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone explain why you would said "pairwise distinct" instead of "all elements are unique" < 1322571062 743575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1322571160 545432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322571663 419322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1322571667 115352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a week ago < 1322571685 707520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was commenting on how warm it is in November < 1322571687 7702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and today < 1322571688 153669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's snowing. < 1322571721 371752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even think it's below freezing. no, it's not. < 1322572239 791363 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erss kapakassa ja vakioasiakas ehdotti hnelle < 1322572559 879232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322572734 456327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: don't pretend you're not American. < 1322572759 810902 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_l99k91VcPO1qdpbleo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1322659120&Signature=ZADFaT4zuI5XQjZSiuliUVob0VQ%3D < 1322572804 483131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this must be what Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff is parodying. < 1322572816 132859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322573076 395512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/mt83n/dear_sociologists_why_do_black_people_not_enjoy/ < 1322573077 186352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322573078 563275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, wow. < 1322573196 239673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322573245 708463 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322573252 84378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott why why why this was a good day < 1322573252 662288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322573297 611807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're so popular. < 1322573495 61546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, so pistachio seeds actually split open like that because of artificial selection. < 1322573952 95728 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322575879 829390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/there_is_no_censorship_in_us.jpg < 1322576528 912324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that's a significantly more complex thing than straight "censorship". < 1322576819 378096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I agree. < 1322576852 271593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to strange to me that for some reason the US needs different information/stuff from the rest of the world. < 1322576893 562664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll mainly be a combination of culture, world prominence and the size of the market. < 1322577049 454654 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322577407 312600 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1322578138 555092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322578787 936368 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322578911 155159 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322579033 232984 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322579857 904874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dalnefre.com/wp/2011/11/fexpr-the-ultimate-lambda/ < 1322579867 202158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This looks exceptionally stupid from a cursory glance. < 1322579884 734793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Application of a Lambda causes evaluation of its operands, producing arguments which are combined as specified by a body expression." < 1322579896 888234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is. < 1322579982 322313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make sense to me. < 1322579984 933736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :producing arguments? < 1322579999 860950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322580012 80182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's... stupid. < 1322580048 842951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears he's reinvented lazily-evaluated lambdas. < 1322580227 766115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"application of a lambda causes evaluation of its operands" sounds pretty unlazy to me. < 1322580741 585561 :mrgaddy!~user@217.118.90.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322580796 656381 :mrgaddy!~user@217.118.90.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello to all esoterics! < 1322580834 462217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1322580842 73729 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1322580952 367073 :mrgaddy!~user@217.118.90.134 QUIT :Client Quit < 1322581000 285501 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another neopagan sent packing. < 1322581140 291929 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322581223 782932 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322581248 282086 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322581439 355853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sometimes I wish we were a joint channel between neopagans and amateur language designers. < 1322581458 294904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, oklopol's a professional language designer. < 1322581507 363269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Gregor kind of is too? < 1322581508 669142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1322581519 319855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he wrote a paper about Plof? < 1322582568 221765 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-85.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322582577 747558 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-58.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322582717 565549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322583874 345216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322584010 953335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "\n" =~ /\s/ < 1322584013 420783 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1322584017 41084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew. sanity. < 1322584173 80697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1322584181 739580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now proceeds to find out why oerjan did that. < 1322584181 927498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322584406 952353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = "hi hi ho hi"; while ($x =~ /hi/g) {print $&} < 1322584407 484065 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihihi < 1322584413 403601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew. sanity. < 1322584418 61118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I have to check when I'm writing perl. < 1322584464 139046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't loss of sanity the standard perl coding state < 1322584482 993803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322584497 27873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's the loss of sanity that makes me check all of these dumb things. < 1322584515 800070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot remember like 3 million special cases of stuff all the time. < 1322584630 715855 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322585090 271874 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't accepted in stacs :( < 1322585109 892797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noklopol? < 1322585151 304291 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at accepted papers in http://stacs2012.lip6.fr/, you'll see why < 1322585153 248133 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are idiots. < 1322585188 396090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is dum lol < 1322585641 903024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322586232 490296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322586356 214486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here? if you're reading this live and not logreading, here's a hilariously breakage of a phpBB webforum: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14360&start=50 < 1322586360 716063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's panicking, obviously < 1322586373 545625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(creating new posts works, incidentally, it's just that all existing information seems to be badly messed up) < 1322586374 859602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322586381 986037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1322586389 351067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite bit is the "Jump to" box at the bottom < 1322586395 542311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322586403 161043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and half the pages fail with an internal error, the others are like that < 1322586424 845899 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was vaguely considering playing on MS once < 1322586430 655623 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure I have the patience though < 1322586439 258493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not sure, you don't < 1322586467 694194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as a bonus, none of the site admins are online, but one of the art people is, and tried to fix the problem by changing the default style to be one that they were working on as a joke < 1322586478 571025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least, that had amsuing placeholder graphics in) < 1322586482 445306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322586490 275293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone assumed that it was some sort of hack attempt < 1322586496 602327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they changed it back after it was clear that it did nothing useful) < 1322586509 223952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now everyone is blaming the tigers < 1322586521 781583 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where can you see what anyone is actually saying? < 1322586533 529208 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is there an IRC channel? < 1322586548 487340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: any thread which was created after this happened < 1322586549 828594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19711 < 1322586563 443390 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322586587 559052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I /might/ actually end up using the state variable declaration in PErl < 1322586587 756516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my IRC bot < 1322586733 600430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any idea of what could cause that sort of breakage? < 1322586740 853572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be some sort of systematic corruption < 1322586850 92582 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322586865 527099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1322586870 94810 :kallisti!~eris@h129.0.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322586870 521793 :kallisti!~eris@h129.0.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322586870 714473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322586936 558908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, reordering of table columns? < 1322586941 844686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or inserting a new one in the wrong place < 1322586953 616058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help < 1322586954 222541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322586956 426601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help help < 1322586957 74924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322586964 694946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, but it pretty clearly involves more than one table with any sensible architecture < 1322586969 597467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. everyone's showing as having joined on the epoch < 1322586977 333429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1322586990 355343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not assuming that phpBB's arch is sensible, but I don't think it'd be /that/ crazy) < 1322586996 260244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who the Eff are you and how did you join in 1969" < 1322587010 37900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, unless join dates are calculated from the posts table < 1322587019 768453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're not < 1322587027 379391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a /very slight/ amoutn about phpBB < 1322587033 101368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know < 1322587040 238743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's definitely an index on (user, thread, date) < 1322587043 612307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the posts table < 1322587059 136089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't be impossible to assume there's one on (user, date) too; it'd just be wrong < 1322587175 373890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, join date can't be calculated from date of first post < 1322587187 176408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what I meant by "wrong" < 1322587196 234297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, everyone's avatar vanished too < 1322587209 470588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but changing avatars worked and put them back to normal, or alternatively tiger-themed) < 1322587214 806246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that can't be related to the posts table, surely < 1322587237 556644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, IIRC avatar info is stored in a table, just not the files themselves < 1322587265 265814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it wouldn't be the same table as posts unless the database was normalized in a really crazy way < 1322587277 152931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically, changing avatar changes it on all posts, you don't want to go back over all the posts and update it by hand < 1322587289 617877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, it's stored in a separate table, almost certainly < 1322587290 403572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322587295 950728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's stored in the user table < 1322587311 101980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322587325 355161 :kallisti!~eris@h211.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322587325 652474 :kallisti!~eris@h211.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322587325 846497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322587335 387449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I'm in wlan limbo < 1322587364 928017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The tigers are unrelated to the problem at hand." < 1322587407 336264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this xalxe person sure does post a lot < 1322587413 324479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder how long "pretentious hipster" has been cool. < 1322587424 24642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he's not a top poster site-wide, he's just interested in the whole tigers incident < 1322587424 345624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least since like the 50s right? < 1322587435 274228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiger Incident(tm) < 1322587472 262111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has to be called something < 1322587483 872419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the blognomic dynasty is still going? < 1322587498 584102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's the one after the one that started during the Agoran invasion < 1322587503 316100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know < 1322587510 309333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one was very short < 1322587514 998271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one seems a more usual length < 1322587515 722307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been on this one the last like ten times i've checked :P < 1322587519 631360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's in need of a win condition < 1322587540 666192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what would be awesome < 1322587542 405164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, I realised that Braid's time travel model is a superset of Feather's; e.g. the first puzzle in world 3 is pretty much exactly a <<= operation, giving the key to the player < 1322587549 591099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322587558 264185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and world 2 should serve as a big demonstration of why timeloops are so easy to make by mistake in Feather < 1322587566 17621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :little balls of soft pretzel, filled with mozzarella. one day I shall make that. < 1322587570 159974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a good visualisation tool < 1322587580 926216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it solved any feather problems yet? < 1322587586 962375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't think so < 1322587600 565374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Braid, things can just have a glowy green outline and be outside the usual flow of time < 1322587606 419909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the Feather version of unsafePerformIO < 1322587608 895345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheating! < 1322587613 579475 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone say feather < 1322587618 994646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you play the game without that? < 1322587640 305072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't cause things to do that; some puzzles (all in world 3, and many elsewhere) have them naturally on the map, thouhg < 1322587641 621531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1322587676 552578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each world has its own gimmick (apart from 2, whose gimmick is not having a gimmick) < 1322587686 279775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the worlds are numbered starting from 2; it's an effect of the pretentiousness < 1322587687 783763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is first < 1322587706 16956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end is 1, right? < 1322587723 966064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322587741 878710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or beginning depending on how you look at it, the game's plot is time-reversed (probably inevitably) < 1322587775 9480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the level you play last < 1322587785 146452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a video title on YouTube you might find amusing: "55 Bugs in 3 Minutes (Minecraft 1.0.0)" < 1322587796 813287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322587805 321820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it single-segment, or IL? < 1322587814 986231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322587837 141449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there discontinuities in the action, like saving and then loading elsewhere, or cutting with things done during the cut? < 1322587866 640159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it repeatedly saves and loads in the same place, it's segmented, but that seems really unlikely for that sort of video) < 1322587883 658346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's a cut after every bug < 1322587891 647178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :demonstrating them all with one large contraption would be... impressive < 1322587930 757482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-segments are much more impressive than ILs for that reason < 1322587934 173993 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project for Pyralspite? < 1322587936 326141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in single player, arrows don't affect a pressure plate until a particle effect intersects the pressure plate" < 1322587952 978736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ILs are generally much faster, to make up for it < 1322587957 676533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can't get over how unlikely that bug is < 1322587958 519626 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bug still amazes me. < 1322587986 259544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (What is that terminology from? TASes?) < 1322587987 796361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boosters, I can get. Water ladders, I can get. Boatvators, I can get. But that? < 1322587994 615117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unassisted speedruns < 1322588002 590630 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322588003 633881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TASes are really heavily segmented by definition < 1322588018 290821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's been one attempt I know of at an IL TAS, TASvideos wouldn't accept it < 1322588045 739479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they verify that the whole run is continuous using emulators, and ILs aren't continuous by definition < 1322588049 179666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, TASes are indistinguishable from someone playing ridiculously well without save-scumming, no? < 1322588057 361478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the end result < 1322588063 710914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed < 1322588067 74742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I had the terminology the wrong way aroudn < 1322588069 97193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they look like single-segments when played back < 1322588073 120586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: all creative sandboxy games need perpetual motion machines. < 1322588076 873895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does IL stand for? < 1322588079 249342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or occasionally, single-segment with resets < 1322588081 539096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :individual level < 1322588083 907112 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@124.240.124.158 QUIT :Client Quit < 1322588091 135954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to play the whole game a level at a time in any order < 1322588107 630520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322588117 746902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's typically used for things like racing games < 1322588128 246976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the levels are all independent, and any ordering of the levels is entirely arbitrary < 1322588148 528914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and continuity is thus not required; SDA even allows the levels of an IL to be done by different people, and just adds together the best time achieved for each level) < 1322588160 360759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A half-block with ice underneath it is slippery." < 1322588163 485631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we are using this < 1322588173 780442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322588177 385640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes we are. < 1322588267 672445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I would play minecraft if it were more CAy < 1322588291 437214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conway's Game of Life: the Game! < 1322588325 218633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess redstone is kind of like wireworld???? kind of??????? < 1322588332 156076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Elliottcraft (the game I'm not really working on but am designing, and that's named after elliott to cause confusion) is basically a bully automaton < 1322588335 409561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only a few individual components < 1322588340 678102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being 3D rather than 2D means only a few are needed < 1322588347 921198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's TC, although haven't proven it < 1322588363 686458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: import state: ground < 1322588366 488794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*important < 1322588376 438608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you walk around in it < 1322588391 115650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there is a possible content for a cell that is solid and does nothing < 1322588403 637510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1322588406 589560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, in fact, one that falls and can be pushed around, and one that's immobile and just hangs there in midair < 1322588414 217715 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent. < 1322588426 724910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, sand and stone? :-) < 1322588434 192746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid minecraft and its IMPOSSIBLY FLOATING STRUCTURES which are SOMETIMES NOT WANTED. < 1322588438 908807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but OTHERTIMES KIND OF COOL. < 1322588441 594962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (in Minecraft, sand and gravel alone are affected by gravity) < 1322588444 503941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think they have names yet, other than really descriptive names < 1322588457 943407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the moveable one acts rather more solid than sand < 1322588465 940037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sand is solid in MC < 1322588470 546100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1322588482 769322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read MC as mind control. < 1322588484 268924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the game isn't going to make much sense real-worldly, but it should make at least more sense than /that/ < 1322588504 786100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even vaguely envisaged it working as an MMO < 1322588522 21675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: glider guns are a must. < 1322588523 591897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm trying to work out how easily you could attack people by building walls around them or sending lots of factory blocks at them < 1322588531 586086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh, don't worry about that < 1322588541 894381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a block whose purpose is to be a glider with side effects, and it's quite easy to create < 1322588566 622335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflecty mirror things that move gliders around? < 1322588574 13281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: portals < 1322588578 734651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :every game benefits from portals. < 1322588595 126890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example see: portal < 1322588599 297959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've always liked the idea of games that are basically single-player MMOs < 1322588605 34082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see… we have air, ground-like blocks (mobile/levitating), conveyor blocks (mobile/levitating), factory blocks < 1322588615 783186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conveyor blocks and factory blocks both have six possible orientations < 1322588618 589661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds horrible kind of. almost as horrible as regular MMOs < 1322588635 386900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the blocks can self-propel; but factory blocks can repeatedly create conveyor blocks beneath themselves < 1322588645 589089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which effectively gives you a side-effecting glider < 1322588653 367550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could eliminate the diffusion of mobile and levitating by just putting block on a single kind of levitating block. < 1322588657 363509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the only mode is online server play < 1322588658 337862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/but/ < 1322588663 441026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone spawns like miles and miles away from each other < 1322588674 481075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you never know unless you like accidentally cross the path of someone exploring far out < 1322588675 297154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that'd make severe differences from the way computation worked < 1322588679 956577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make plans to meet up with someone < 1322588680 145690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then, how would you play it offline? < 1322588688 40136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, someone would probably make some sort of space-filling machine before long < 1322588694 85108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone would come across it eventually < 1322588698 59454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't (bonus points if it doesn't tell you it's connecting to the network before you realise it yourself) < 1322588715 206191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then it's effectively malware < 1322588719 977216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AWESOME malware < 1322588723 294747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: peano curves: the game? < 1322588724 873268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but still malware < 1322588731 929134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: more to the point, my network connection is often very unreliable < 1322588741 28235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd notice the game repeatedly crashing < 1322588743 356535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it helps to dilute the world of malware with fun malware < 1322588747 452042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a world with fun malware > a world with unfun malware < 1322588802 584038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a world with fun malware + a world with unfun malware = a world with unfun malware < 1322588806 706975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, a world with fun malware = 0 < 1322588840 877770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322588856 627248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good math < 1322588857 419636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, a world with unfun malware < 0 < 1322588868 698161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and <0 < <3) < 1322588905 607297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (<0) < (<3) < 1322588906 674698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: (==): No overloading for function < 1322588946 293991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why that's erroring on (==) < 1322588955 527780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a large part of me wishes that functions were orderable and equatable. < 1322588973 444518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then define ordering and equality on functions < 1322588975 986614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder why that's a runtime error..... < 1322588980 286022 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322588988 159358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322588998 152692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin + cos) pi < 1322588999 134339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -0.9999999999999999 < 1322589010 781062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some library, presumably? < 1322589018 706382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what? < 1322589020 129614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :library for what < 1322589022 47470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cos pi < 1322589022 591119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.0 < 1322589026 128532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sin pi < 1322589026 617608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.2246467991473532e-16 < 1322589030 233663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1322589032 128964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: num instance for functions < 1322589041 824821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: defining + on functions < 1322589044 907114 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin pi..... < 1322589050 875783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just a Num instance < 1322589055 637895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Num requires Eq and Show < 1322589056 659842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bad < 1322589060 934104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, aha < 1322589074 749077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does Eq requite Ord? < 1322589080 575975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322589082 459704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Num requires Ord and Show < 1322589083 819399 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ord requires Eq < 1322589084 256832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it < 1322589085 238663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Num < 1322589085 557419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Eq a, Show a) => Num a where < 1322589085 747370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (+), (-), (*) :: a -> a -> a < 1322589085 747573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : negate, abs, signum :: a -> a < 1322589085 747674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromInteger :: Integer -> a < 1322589086 797565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322589087 686107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1322589089 184551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Ord isn't required < 1322589091 499417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they defined it < 1322589102 419136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1322589124 263847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wonder why they defined it in terms of == < 1322589133 2744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (a->b) < < 1322589133 190343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! < 1322589142 676491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((+3) > (+4)) 5 < 1322589143 767439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t' < 1322589143 955189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.B... < 1322589156 102003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322589158 78030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322589158 960155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great if the rest of the error was printed < 1322589165 256983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((+3) > (+4)) < 1322589165 936422 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool < 1322589168 888371 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty clearly GHC.BOol or siome.. < 1322589170 628573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, there we go < 1322589179 186675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect, that was inevitable < 1322589183 623492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..heh, indeed. < 1322589243 504465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does caleskell do any other stuff with function instances that would require Ord? < 1322589251 255231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1322589288 456403 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info (->) < 1322589288 969383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error at "->)" (column 2) < 1322589297 370021 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help info < 1322589298 103254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322589305 39270 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help @info < 1322589305 607131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322589310 491841 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1322589402 322176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I imagine one of the tests of the compare function or <= (whichever they defined for (->)) involves equality somewhere. < 1322589416 823684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < etc are defined from that. < 1322589446 868565 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, why would they define Ord Num with compare or <= being anything other than error? < 1322589449 362815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really explain why there is a completely useless Ord instance of (->) < 1322589455 679914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, I mean, Ord (->) < 1322589493 224823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they were lazy and just used the same error message they use with (==) to make their shitty useless instance. < 1322589630 38089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's actually a bug and no one realized that the Ord instance isn't actually needed. < 1322589647 701724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :,, < 1322589660 965984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322589799 243841 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the discussion going in #haskell < 1322590109 726440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's Ord (a->b), right? (->) is quite different from (a->b) < 1322590116 819285 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322590141 324036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably. < 1322590156 480417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> () > () < 1322590157 577054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322590159 861970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people often abbreviate instances for (->) in that way, it's kinda gross though < 1322590161 143021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...bah < 1322590169 493987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does the language accept it? < 1322590173 452429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1322590176 291552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but we're not talking in haskell < 1322590180 198563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322590189 497434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's like abbreviating int* to int in C < 1322590200 487815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1322590206 104163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you're not talking in C, it's still going to be really confusing < 1322590220 843359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely obvious that you're saying (make functions do stuff) in much the same way as saying something like "an instance for monads" < 1322590264 533395 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322590272 990924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a sensible definition of Ord for a->b < 1322590277 80691 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually < 1322590282 799068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about sensible, but < 1322590290 770148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there isn't < 1322590294 439537 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t max < 1322590295 623709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ord a) => a -> a -> a < 1322590324 468828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really, since Ord (->) is totally invalid, and there's only one possible "expansion" to validity < 1322590328 285413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to Ord Int vs. Ord (Ptr Int) < 1322590334 341234 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> max (+2) (+3) $ 5 < 1322590335 595705 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 < 1322590344 463392 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not "sensible" < 1322590345 62836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...and? < 1322590347 697186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t compare < 1322590348 503943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ord a) => a -> a -> Ordering < 1322590350 480243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Ord < 1322590350 677820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Eq a) => Ord a where < 1322590350 873674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : compare :: a -> a -> Ordering < 1322590350 873867 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (<), (<=), (>), (>=) :: a -> a -> Bool < 1322590350 873968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : max, min :: a -> a -> a < 1322590353 77394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ord (a->a)? < 1322590356 511245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you implement compare < 1322590357 973591 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But max and min are defined < 1322590366 363735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? The others aren't < 1322590370 412204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with guards. < 1322590373 444957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1322590373 642401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ah, I guess that's why < 1322590378 438675 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a consistent compare for functions < 1322590379 960046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1322590382 867255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (a -> b), Ord (a -> a) isn't valid and wouldn't work if it did < 1322590384 27056 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind of slow though < 1322590393 163169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/did$/was/ < 1322590396 345495 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for example: "an Ord instance for monads" when you actually mean an Ord instance for (Monad m, Ord a) => m a or something. < 1322590404 487646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1322590405 963482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, you can define <= in terms min as (<=) a b = min a b == a < 1322590412 205541 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not sure how you'd define that < 1322590412 693980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that instance would be terrible and not work < 1322590412 890575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where the call to == is coming from, probably < 1322590414 670383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1322590416 937734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody says that < 1322590420 534644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in terms of min < 1322590421 202325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody would know what you meant if you said that :P < 1322590429 894547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1322590436 660068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually a plausible definition of <= for functions, it's just uncomputable < 1322590450 118737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and non-transitive) < 1322590456 518774 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a valid definition of it for functions < 1322590483 704365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: What did it do < 1322590493 355973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the entire argument space? < 1322590503 376771 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it's not that simple < 1322590516 655707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds fairly non-terminating :P < 1322590546 173573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: does "valid" here imply "computable"? < 1322590565 827332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out if sorting functions lexicographically by what they map the entire argument space to makes any sort of sense < 1322590585 933242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does with restrictions on the functions; differentiability is probably enough, but too strong < 1322590596 169259 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1322590598 952300 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>deriv abs 0 < 1322590602 533743 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv abs 0 < 1322590603 768949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322590606 476294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, it's meaningful, but impossible to compute without more information) < 1322590607 590545 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv abs (-1) < 1322590608 602650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1322590619 927839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv abs 20 < 1322590620 565899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322590623 158482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322590630 4584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I bet it's just taking the average of left-derivative and right-derivative < 1322590634 630314 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv abs x < 1322590635 832736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : signum x * 1 < 1322590637 555129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure I've heard the phrase "instance for monads" used before. also: I wasn't anticipating my example would be reviewed for its plausibility of implementation. :P < 1322590645 207899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, doing it symbolically < 1322590648 160820 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src deriv < 1322590648 788950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Where did you learn to type? < 1322590648 984523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>deriv sin < 1322590652 721828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin < 1322590653 253596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322590653 454025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322590664 640382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin x < 1322590665 273129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x < 1322590671 438999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, symbolically all right < 1322590690 558358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Monad m) => m a -> a < 1322590691 350544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b < 1322590691 550801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b < 1322590691 550878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Instances (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b < 1322590691 752779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322590692 437798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322590701 111454 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523: it only worked on finitely enumerable domains, and it would create a list of all functions < 1322590703 642286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not symbolically, I don't think < 1322590703 839366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, Haskell, no breakMonads function? < 1322590705 191879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it might be < 1322590707 958813 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then find who appeared first in that list < 1322590712 723088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's AD < 1322590714 66002 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was awesome < 1322590716 819329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the symbolicness comes from the Expr stuff < 1322590719 580638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which comes in because of x < 1322590721 859268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin 99.4 < 1322590722 661588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.4257869286693041 < 1322590725 270377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv sin 99.4 < 1322590726 264366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1322590727 561179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322590730 668464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does it differentiate sin to cos without doing it symbolically? < 1322590734 909292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually say the result is cos < 1322590742 279727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just guessing that the result acts like cos? < 1322590743 89115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's part of the definition of sin < 1322590743 740260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sin < 1322590744 720944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a < 1322590750 121792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of the Floating instance for Dif < 1322590760 158040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322590763 606733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> sin a * sin a) x < 1322590764 278855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x * sin x + sin x * (1 * cos x) < 1322590764 944699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr typeclass hacks. < 1322590772 429829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a typeclass hack < 1322590792 541464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has to know that the input is sin, surely? < 1322590796 819427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what < 1322590802 233641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's comparing functions and we already know that's impossible < 1322590810 75492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1322590813 938748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322590814 496253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1322590820 295447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322590821 99855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322590830 295432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Blah (Dif a) where sin = ... < 1322590845 665989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, symbolic < 1322590848 444660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322590849 419406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not symbolic < 1322590863 569236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of sin will be something that says "this is sin" < 1322590873 179520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, it's symbolic < 1322590877 4669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322590877 994831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not symbolic < 1322590879 572080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're using a really weird definition of the term < 1322590884 483183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the reason it says cos < 1322590886 353476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is because you used "x" < 1322590887 758557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t x < 1322590888 585904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1322590890 35111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sin x < 1322590890 856335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : sin x < 1322590891 671509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cos x < 1322590892 510509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just saying lots of stuff that proves it's symbolic < 1322590892 705266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cos x < 1322590899 428935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are still doing stuff that says it's symbolic < 1322590905 29727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're just saying lots of stuff that proves you don't know wtf it's doing < 1322590907 438088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE EXPR STUFF IS SYMBOLIC < 1322590910 610743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the deriv stuff isn't < 1322590926 805039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's printing the result symbolically because I used x, indeed < 1322590938 287438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was symbolic all along, because you can't go backwards from numerical to symbolic, in general < 1322590938 616512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"ragequit" < 1322590976 817829 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott rageparts easily. < 1322590981 655564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably it has to do some maths < 1322590984 528799 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not used to elliott rageparting < 1322590987 348950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on top of being symbolicish < 1322591007 858886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic differentiation basically means that it's using some sort of AST or similar representation of the functions, and operating on that < 1322591013 685832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than evaluating the functions and operating on the resulting values < 1322591020 947474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322591024 720715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then somehow making them back into functions < 1322591035 166427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suggest you look up automatic differentiation < 1322591039 255072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than arguing from incredulity < 1322591099 471903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've just looked it up; Wikipedia says that it isn't symbolic differentiation, then goes on to define it, with a definition that shows that it clearly is symbolic after all < 1322591111 692216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless "symbolic differentation" refers to something other than differentiation which is symbolic < 1322591113 64279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are incorrect < 1322591121 420640 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then, go there and fix it if it is wrong? < 1322591125 877153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.sigfpe.com/2005/07/automatic-differentiation.html < 1322591136 326542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the operations are defined with variables < 1322591138 348110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not make them symbolic < 1322591140 270925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, put a note on the Talk page to notify them in case someone has reasons to keep it how it is? < 1322591146 780396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are no symbols at runtime < 1322591149 877992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no symbol manipulation at runtime < 1322591155 592140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing involving symbols or symbol manipulation is Expr < 1322591160 996445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is completely distinct from the automatic differentiation code < 1322591167 381123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unrelated to it < 1322591246 643628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find sigfpe's longer post. < 1322591304 580360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, so automatic differentiation there is an optimization of an optimization of symbolic differentiation where you're superstrict < 1322591310 139455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322591313 608032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a specialiser < 1322591316 524650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322591330 773312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you give in x as the argument, then you don't get any specialisation hapening < 1322591332 555440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*happening < 1322591333 815732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will just keep saying "no" every time you make an incorrect statement, since you don't actually listen to the corrections. < 1322591338 448124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't give x in as an argument. x is not a number. < 1322591344 700414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (sin :: Double -> Double) pi < 1322591347 499169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nor is d < 1322591352 240109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot pass x to that sin < 1322591355 206433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only takes Doublse < 1322591356 766275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubles < 1322591359 359385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, type error < 1322591362 468804 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322591364 973539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1322591365 797024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1322591368 177131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic differentiation works because it redefines * on d < 1322591370 585227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that d*d = 0 < 1322591372 839858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322591393 486887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322591393 685295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322591395 969879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the type error there is /mandatory/ < 1322591400 876937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, d is not a Double < 1322591410 823308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is, it was a trivial mistake and irrelevant because you don't actually understand how AD works < 1322591417 278180 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (sin :: Dif Double -> Dif Double) pi < 1322591418 457627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322591418 655662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.0 < 1322591431 385189 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume a Dif Double accepts d < 1322591433 722248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, are not interested in understanding, as opposed to just telling me I'm wrong and apparently Wikipedia and everyone else on the planet too based on misunderstandings < 1322591435 512783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm done < 1322591446 231107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've read the page, and I understand AD pretty well, by now < 1322591453 926947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's orthogonal to symbolic versus not symbolic < 1322591471 834069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it requires redefining terms in the original expression < 1322591480 770917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, you need a symbolic version of the input < 1322591506 778965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't, you just need a polymorphic function < 1322591545 876296 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an instance (Num a) => Num (Dif a)? < 1322591555 992756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hope so. < 1322591566 783201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f :: forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a; f x = sin x + cos x {- haskell has no facility for "inspecting" this function symbolically -} in (f (pi :: Double), deriv f (pi :: Double)) < 1322591567 765853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-0.9999999999999999,-1.0000000000000002) < 1322591612 917894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, Haskell /can/ inspect that function symbolically < 1322591618 36843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect < 1322591625 850569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :create a new type, of typeclass Floating, that builds an AST < 1322591628 961761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and defines sin, +, cos < 1322591634 830218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which it does, as it's of typeclass Floating) < 1322591640 785881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not "inspecting the function symbolically" < 1322591646 858750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, types aren't "of typeclasses". < 1322591647 58870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it not? < 1322591655 862203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with an instance of that typeclass < 1322591660 142891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by that argument, map is "symbolic" < 1322591664 379524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to imply that a type could only belong to one typeclass < 1322591670 351100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> "f " ++ show x) [1,2,3,4] < 1322591671 942557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["f 1","f 2","f 3","f 4"] < 1322591675 264997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but, umm, it is? < 1322591675 464752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG SYMBOLIC! < 1322591694 884514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle ["yes no "] --tl;dr < 1322591696 25269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["yes no ","yes no ","yes no ","yes no ","yes no ","yes no ","yes no ","yes... < 1322591699 474361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322591702 223780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\a b -> a ++ " `f` (" ++ b ++ ")") "z" ["a","b","c","d"] < 1322591703 855106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "a `f` (b `f` (c `f` (d `f` (z))))" < 1322591704 864967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "yes no " --tl;dr < 1322591705 532043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG FOLDR IS SYMBOLIC < 1322591705 984457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes ... < 1322591712 650270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: again, why would you expect it to not be? < 1322591716 36973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING IS SYMBOLIC DESPITE THERE BEING NO SYMBOLIC SEMANTICS IN HASKELL OR CODE IN GHC < 1322591716 237027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to evaluate anything < 1322591726 156332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's true that if you define every function as symbolic, then AD is symbolic, yes. < 1322591739 553280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there are even two people on the planet stupid enough to take such a view < 1322591741 220503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, actually, no < 1322591754 772454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322591787 937439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, I think you'll find that most implementations of AD look like data Dif a = Dif a a, which has a conspicuous lack of symbolic d. < 1322591801 586939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d = Dif 0 1, _not_ symbolic at all, _not_ handled specially by the Num instance at all) < 1322591803 72330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, that's a specialization < 1322591815 14114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the definition < 1322591820 849288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (const 4) pi < 1322591822 102269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322591825 198474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_number < 1322591833 697041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I know why map isn't symbolic, despite everything; it's because it doesn't try to provide definitions for any of the subexpressions of the original < 1322591916 93001 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AD is that differentiation thing— yep. < 1322591975 179716 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322591975 712270 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1322591975 911403 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1322591993 231689 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x^x) x < 1322591994 343358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral < 1322591994 542505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Dif.Dif... < 1322591994 911570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you discussing whether it counts as symbolic derivation or not. < 1322591998 17675 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x**x) x < 1322591998 312189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, forgot Conal has a serise of posts about it: http://conal.net/blog/posts/what-is-automatic-differentiation-and-why-does-it-work < 1322591999 293374 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1 * recip x * x + log x * 1) * exp (log x * x) < 1322592000 461477 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I name the function to put the barrier monad into the other form? < 1322592001 74711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I think you'll agree with the following statement: "Any function that doesn't mention Dif and is valid input to dif is also valid input to \f -> f x" < 1322592006 986488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, ais is blindly claiming it is without justification < 1322592018 89367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you? < 1322592043 790353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where x is Expr's x, there) < 1322592044 480674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, (Dif a) could easily have instances that Expr doesn't < 1322592055 247723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace every number X with the number x + x'ε, where x' is a real number, but ε is nothing but a symbol with the property ε^2 = 0. Using only this, we get for the regular arithmetic < 1322592058 795014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does it? < 1322592059 160784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IT'S JUST A SYMBOL DUDE < 1322592062 572580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SYMBOLIC < 1322592062 768353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would it make sense for it to? < 1322592062 967533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... kind of symbolic, in that it only works for functions that only use + and *, but that's not really symbolic in the conventional sense. < 1322592069 207024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and couldn't the same instances be added to Expr too? < 1322592076 70812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: moron < 1322592085 611710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uhh, it works for functions that use plenty other than + and *. < 1322592092 634910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm, like? < 1322592097 848139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AD is widely used to differentiate entire procedural algorithms written in C. < 1322592104 64820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Like anything? < 1322592107 656160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any operator. < 1322592115 402389 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (note: sarcasm) < 1322592117 73891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know whether it does < 1322592121 25229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but they need either the source code or the resulting binary to work, presumably < 1322592125 64630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I meant to clarify, that doesn't use any numerical operations other than + and *. < 1322592141 919074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you made your question precise -- "any f :: (Num a) => a -> b can have be applied to (x :: Expr) where instance Num Expr"... no shit? < 1322592148 820493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...no? < 1322592161 800167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I think by "symbolic", I mean "there is enough polymorphism present that you can just give a lot of AST-building definitions of the operators and end up with a parse tree of the function" < 1322592166 105109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322592167 823714 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin (x :: Expr) < 1322592168 143404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is clearly different from your definition, thus the argument < 1322592169 123152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x < 1322592177 594248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how would you use it on, say, ln x. < 1322592184 644865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice a distinct lack of + and * < 1322592188 385475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your definition is ridiculous: every polymorphic function becomes symbolic < 1322592197 450475 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without using the series expansion; that's just expressing it in terms of + and *. < 1322592203 105348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv log (x :: Expr) < 1322592204 353949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * recip x < 1322592209 720559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv log (pi :: Double) < 1322592210 488092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.3183098861837907 < 1322592215 198370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I suppose they are < 1322592216 423537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Expr just confuses things. < 1322592219 282555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's probably a good thing < 1322592223 405128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it clarifies. < 1322592228 261349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1322592231 536109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Expr only works for a small subset < 1322592245 338121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it fucks up on abs or something, I forget exactly what I ran into when I tried to use AD with Expr < 1322592245 830146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, because it's missing instances, but right < 1322592253 53159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322592254 894163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> abs x < 1322592255 990423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the types don't work out < 1322592256 220824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : abs x < 1322592262 634342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv abs (x :: Expr) < 1322592263 859305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : signum x * 1 < 1322592272 279161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv signum (x :: Expr) < 1322592272 960297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322592275 385599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : iirc it fucks up on abs or something, I forget exactly what I ran into when I tried to use AD with Expr < 1322592282 267539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I forget exactly what I ran into" < 1322592290 774380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322592300 472695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm currently trying to work out what leads to the sin -> cos case < 1322592321 816642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating instance for dual numbers. < 1322592323 826158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1322592329 407632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the definition of sin for Diff references cos, obviously < 1322592335 617393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as the definition of sin for dual numbers /involves/ cos < 1322592340 514227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the infinitesimal part < 1322592349 554265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the sin and cos referenced are those of the underlying numeric type < 1322592354 614605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, of course < 1322592359 885935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Expr, that consists of prepending "cos " (roughly) < 1322592400 15968 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but, um, seriously, the proof of AD uses a polynomial; how do you use it on things that aren't polynomials? < 1322592413 506803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. < 1322592423 95711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, all the things that it's being tried on are polynomials < 1322592434 767083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of sin/cos, they're infinite-degree, but still polynomials < 1322592446 242795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in general, working on all polynomials means it works on anything that has a Taylor expansion < 1322592455 204653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things that don't are unlikely to be meaningfully differentiable anyway :) < 1322592475 633484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the standard ad libraries don't actually define things via Taylor expansions. < 1322592484 151838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, so how do they do it? < 1322592487 841883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because it would be stupid to do so < 1322592497 685859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're only relevant in proving that the technique works < 1322592503 168113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they use basic calculus. < 1322592510 717481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no? < 1322592518 534057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sin = liftAD sin cos < 1322592536 791538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1322592541 901925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ad library has < 1322592547 451670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lift1 :: Num a => (a -> a) -> (D t a -> D t a) -> t a -> t a < 1322592548 227141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does liftAD do? < 1322592559 93266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where sin = lift1 sin cos < 1322592565 277743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Depends on which type you use < 1322592569 78252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the simple < 1322592569 536794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Forward a = Forward !a a deriving (Show, Data, Typeable) < 1322592570 853638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1322592573 851966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lift1 f df (Forward b db) = Forward (f b) (dadb * db) < 1322592574 49689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1322592574 49870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Id dadb = df (Id b) < 1322592582 15116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where < 1322592582 213152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : type D Forward = Id < 1322592582 658514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1322592658 293673 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322592681 568245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why did you put the tunes logs in the topic? I logread but didn't see anything about it :P < 1322592703 341650 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was while glogbot was crashed < 1322592712 125329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a lot of glue code.. < 1322592712 936047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322592718 460415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: because it's generic < 1322592721 563484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it has all kinds of AD types < 1322592732 480697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including like < 1322592733 139741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | A @Tape@ records the information needed back propagate from the output to each input during 'Reverse' 'Mode' AD. < 1322592733 327299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Tape a t < 1322592733 327496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : = Lift !a < 1322592733 327597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Var !a {-# UNPACK #-} !Int < 1322592734 111957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Binary !a a a t t < 1322592736 68389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Unary !a a t < 1322592737 340458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right. I think probably a simple example would be easier to follow though? < 1322592738 182566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : deriving (Show, Data, Typeable) < 1322592740 176925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | @Reverse@ is a 'Mode' using reverse-mode automatic differentiation that provides fast 'diffFU', 'diff2FU', 'grad', 'grad2' and a fast 'jacobian' when you have a significantly smaller number of outputs than inputs. < 1322592743 84357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Reverse a = Reverse (Tape a (Reverse a)) deriving (Show, Typeable) < 1322592745 203643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses StableNames and observable sharing and shit < 1322592746 696340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I was giving an actual example < 1322592750 687724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I know. < 1322592752 653603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show something that actually works < 1322592781 152335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big :: Nat -> Bool < 1322592781 478997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big (S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S _)))))))))) = True < 1322592781 667277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big _ = False < 1322592782 957864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a swell function < 1322592816 972065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could also just say sin (Dif x dx) = Dif (sin x) (dx * cos x) < 1322592819 797084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to demonstrate the basic idea. < 1322592828 491594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1322592831 521199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hangonhangonhangon, is liftAD just /defining/ the derivative? < 1322592847 663339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sin on the dual numbers inherently involves cos. < 1322592853 571000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "defining" the derivative. < 1322592866 290510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing sin on the dual numbers involves computing sin on the underlying number type, and cos on the same dual number type. < 1322592879 973151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also define "sin x = x+1", it just wouldn't be sin. < 1322592890 339094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, the only sin for the dual numbers is lift1 sin cos. < 1322592902 499598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK. < 1322593030 107840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the formal definition of dual numbers is oddly similar to complex numbers. < 1322593042 272728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's not really odd < 1322593042 968275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well nawww. < 1322593046 515562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: complex numbers is adding i^2 = -1 < 1322593049 782709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: dual numbers is adding d^2 = 0 < 1322593059 96759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both gonna end up looking pretty similar :P < 1322593064 171295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that is the similarity I was talking about. :P < 1322593090 154641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just a different complex number algebra. < 1322593124 108645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A different complex number algebra? < 1322593125 703109 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-40.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322593152 331610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you can do second derivatives like this also you just need a second level < 1322593153 967085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more generally < 1322593159 702969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Diff a = Diff a (Diff a) < 1322593164 626722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The complex numbers are just ((R,R), +, *); change + or * and you don't have the complex numbers any more. < 1322593167 870352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some things stop terminating if you do it like /that/ :P < 1322593201 881058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can't take square roots, sins, and cosines of complex numbers? < 1322593217 173518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, scratch square roots actually < 1322593227 888410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, those are all derived from the stuff I stated. < 1322593273 152059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right division. < 1322593275 286380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes there was Automatic Integration. :p < 1322593280 375154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codual numbers! < 1322593291 781550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make them < 1322593302 879453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :publish paper < 1322593303 967996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :get rich < 1322593411 861670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, we can already do integration on polynomials really easily. < 1322593447 975452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not with codual numbers! < 1322593465 556246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: --Phantom "Help runge kutta" Hoverboard < 1322593489 985176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, I found highly contradictory information on what it could be applied to! < 1322593513 848977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Wait what if we just rewrote Newtonian physics with polynomials?) < 1322593519 424630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (THINK ABOUT IT) < 1322593528 770855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you sure you don't need like triangles or something to define sine? < 1322593530 524374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they tried that, turns out it's impossible. < 1322593542 515185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe they didn't try hard enough? < 1322593548 751792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe they used the wrong foundation. < 1322593552 151036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sin x = x - x^3/3! + x^5/5! - ... < 1322593553 649723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try it with THE POWER OF TYPE THEORY AND UNSAFECOERCE. < 1322593558 106293 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1322593562 178391 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Changing host < 1322593562 357532 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322593592 551842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, this definition is demonstrably equivalent to the triangle one, although it's pretty circuitous to actually show it. < 1322593605 661042 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh okay. but then you forgot the infinite paper. < 1322593612 291434 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aren't those two opposite powers? < 1322593612 470757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 3/3! = 1! = 1 idiot dummy < 1322593624 5718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin x = x - x^1 + x^1 - ... < 1322593625 422170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :=== < 1322593628 557942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin x = x - x + x - ... < 1322593630 103215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Q.E.D < 1322593630 546417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes, they fight crime. < 1322593644 729166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "bad at teaching" hird < 1322593648 776692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've proven that sin x doesn't converge for all x? < 1322593655 513335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all nonzero x. < 1322593661 443218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no we just need to use < 1322593662 194490 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, TYPE CRIME, it's like thoughtcrime < 1322593664 910199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZETA FUNCTION REGULARISATION < 1322593669 856042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it solves all summing problems < 1322593677 140963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think fax may have been a bad influence on you. < 1322593680 136535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never had a problem summing. < 1322593703 77837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK I have determined that sin(x) = 1/4e^pi + (x*0.0000000000014) for all x apart from 3. < 1322593710 669286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin(3) = god. < 1322593733 767453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what zeta function regularisation actually says. < 1322593745 211597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It has helped us find god. < 1322593752 573564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, zeta function regularisation. Theta function regularisation. < 1322593792 797327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I really want to believe in string theory because one kind of string theory involves using zeta function regularisation to work out a sum for actual physical things??? < 1322593802 940316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to believe that God is awesome enough to put that into physics. < 1322593811 276274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check out the WP article? < 1322593820 983315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: too bad that's bad because string theory ew < 1322593831 239339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1322593845 401203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first example is bog-standard QFT. < 1322593860 326693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is it? YESSSSSSSSSSSSS < 1322593864 899005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS GOD < 1322593872 978178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Aw c'mon, everyone likes string theory, it's so elegant! < 1322593894 253720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Before Phantom_Hoover rips into me: it's a joke.) < 1322593935 660761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, how much do you actually know about zeta function regularisation beyond "you can use it to prove mad things about infinite sums". < 1322593949 443553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sometimes I feel like have a superpower to recognize jokes. < 1322593953 435022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they're just incredibly deadpan. < 1322593961 632646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am like the world's foremost expert of zeta function regularisation? < 1322593975 25764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's the zeta function. < 1322593985 724114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: RIEMANNIAN < 1322594002 180302 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of all the people I know you seem to know the most about it, so that's a yes < 1322594009 227161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riemann, mon. < 1322594016 226464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you knew fax, no? < 1322594062 28774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zeta-Function Regularization is Uniquely Defined and Well < 1322594064 26653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :E. Elizalde < 1322594066 117013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Submitted on 6 Aug 1993) < 1322594068 105119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hawking's zeta function regularization procedure is shown to be rigorously and uniquely defined, thus putting and end to the spreading lore about different difficulties associated with it. Basic misconceptions, misunderstandings and errors which keep appearing in important scientific journals when dealing with this beautiful regularization method ---and other analytical procedures--- are clarified and corrected. < 1322594073 76302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. bitchen < 1322594086 683089 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope, I've never used fax < 1322594111 355338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is E. Elizalde you in a previous life. < 1322594117 475759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1322594127 21591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I revived two years later. < 1322594156 141055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably learn some analysis sometime, it seems cool. < 1322594212 169670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes then you will know 1 thing, ha ha ha < 1322594225 781091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :'( < 1322594235 646662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh come on, Haskell, no breakMonads function? <-- it makes very little sense to do that for an arbitrary monad < 1322594266 164621 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because different monads need different kind of setup to get started < 1322594272 573921 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, update < 1322594275 772802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: some can't get started at all < 1322594281 733117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: dupdog < 1322594282 657163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does breakMonads do. < 1322594297 553724 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: @hoogle (Monad m) => m a -> a < 1322594308 82604 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be its type < 1322594336 197399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, the classic "help i want out" response to a monad. < 1322594373 405807 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't most useful monads have a function like that, except with more arguments? < 1322594377 627483 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, _even_ if you admit unsafePerformIO it still doesn't make sense for every monad. < 1322594394 340840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unsafePerformIO is in the report :) < 1322594399 286653 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah. except sometimes the output too has more arguments. < 1322594405 2685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not necessarily < 1322594409 330629 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. lists < 1322594415 867911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the function monad doesn't, except it does if you consider the input "more arguments" < 1322594418 743698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and there's the crux of the matter: m a isn't associated with any particular value of a. < 1322594430 203454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:17 < elliott> kallisti: dupdog < 1322594433 305469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about it? < 1322594433 572631 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why shouldn't I? < 1322594445 332570 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322594445 514275 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322594445 514429 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322594449 423103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well you could always add it as a method to Monad, with the default definition of undefined < 1322594458 431330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well you are basically just defining "useful monad" as "something which can be turned into a function from something else to something with an a in it" < 1322594461 794791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it still breaks arbitrary monads. :> < 1322594474 858178 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah fail needs company in its brokenness < 1322594475 42400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, like Phantom_Hoover said. < 1322594478 789280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (a -> Bool) is a monad. < 1322594482 759717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pure sets) < 1322594490 988534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for Eq a < 1322594506 374597 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322594518 212071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hm < 1322594519 57387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cont r may be a better example < 1322594522 51056 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's wrong with that as a definition of a useful monad? < 1322594522 293019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do join < 1322594528 174342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (a -> Bool) -> a < 1322594531 740633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write that? < 1322594532 810214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just cannot get an a result out of that < 1322594558 261446 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, least value of a such that the function results in true, for some arbitrary well-ordering. < 1322594562 229218 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming r and a are not allowed to depend on each other < 1322594564 690469 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, even with applying id? < 1322594566 983930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you only have (Eq a) < 1322594569 107132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um < 1322594571 923862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZFC'd. < 1322594572 222245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype PS a = PS (a -> Bool) < 1322594574 86209 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, using id < 1322594578 602127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :run :: (Eq a) => PS a -> a < 1322594588 648430 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: id doesn't give you Cont r a -> a < 1322594592 227997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322594593 696836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Cont, ok < 1322594601 321180 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322594601 674478 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runCont < 1322594602 946088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r a. Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r < 1322594620 753593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh PS isn't a monad < 1322594621 734971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately < 1322594621 915923 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You... get an r? < 1322594625 111461 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that shows id works if a = r < 1322594628 279283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not a functor, it's a contrafunctor < 1322594647 250582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, hmm < 1322594649 537284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems wrong < 1322594654 962031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Set /is/ a monad, modulo Ord constraint < 1322594656 384877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's up? < 1322594664 354482 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: note that breakMonad was supposed to have the type forall m a. Monad m => m a -> a < 1322594677 375094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap :: (a -> b) -> (a -> Bool) -> (b -> Bool) < 1322594677 615630 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breakMonads < 1322594681 132109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322594686 71584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how is Set a monad again? that makes no sense < 1322594701 333918 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not < 1322594707 546494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MODULO ORD CONSTRAINT < 1322594742 187602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1322594747 412363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because Set can access its inner "list of values" < 1322594782 342183 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apply f to that list, then nub . sort, i presume < 1322594800 903710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but it's really gross because it means Set is nothing like a set :( < 1322594804 525886 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and set union somewhere < 1322594811 262077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes the set monad is basically the same as the list monad, modulo ord constraint < 1322594823 108505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: even worse: you can't define contramap for Set < 1322594829 20800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you /can/ for (-> Bool) < 1322594834 732987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets are like the opposite of sets :P < 1322594933 508678 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :contramap? < 1322594939 476331 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322594989 36729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see contravariant package < 1322595086 461428 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :contramap scares me < 1322595092 652579 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Bool is a contravariant functor, yes. also it's its own adjoint functor, and when you compose those you get Cont Bool as the monad. < 1322595128 229141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, i'm just annoyed that (Set a) and (a -> Bool) are almost opposites < 1322595134 924559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set has fmap, (-> Bool) has contramap < 1322595161 217031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think of the former as the latter except (a) faster and (b) you can get a magic ordered list of values out of it, but that doesn't affect what you can actually "do" to it :P < 1322595196 656697 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it may be somewhat analogous to how a finite dimensional vector space is its own dual, but the isomorphism is not natural (you need to pick an arbitrary basis) < 1322595204 663089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322595235 983681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm trying to think of monads that you can't "run" apart from data Trivial a = Trivial (or was it data Trivial a) and Cont... < 1322595244 75749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a hard time of it :P < 1322595265 397245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm.. what is "run" for lists? < 1322595280 160043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: head :P < 1322595286 305492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322595287 230584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more relevantly, < 1322595290 496925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] -> Maybe a < 1322595297 359526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo probably considers that close enough to "running" < 1322595302 692948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since (Maybe a) sometimes has an a in it < 1322595320 653504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least you know when it doesn't run. < 1322595355 170030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait is Sgeo arguing in favor of breakMonads or something? I haven't been paying attention < 1322595404 263547 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, inner products are what you add to _make_ that self-dualism natural for vector spaces, maybe there's an analogue for Set a and a -> Bool < 1322595551 611784 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :safeIndex would probably be better < 1322595570 227778 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo "better" < 1322595587 457048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO IS MINE < 1322595588 659743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIIIIIIIINE < 1322595670 612173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: friendship fsvo < 1322595682 236772 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... fsvo fsvo < 1322595690 3681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iouhfjkhflsd < 1322595696 472790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi friendship fsvo help < 1322595706 290764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: HELP < 1322595710 644209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hlep < 1322595711 443878 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo friendship < 1322595778 304563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Expr < 1322595779 439396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Expr' < 1322595782 851166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Expr < 1322595783 615676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Expr module Text.Parsec.Expr < 1322595783 800553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Expr module Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Expr < 1322595783 800727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Expr buildExpressionParser :: OperatorTable tok st a -> GenParser tok st a -> GenParser tok st a < 1322595799 262428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is there a SimpleReflect type that has a parameter? < 1322595850 512015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/show/0.4.1.1/doc/html/SimpleReflect.html < 1322595947 375363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1322595967 796319 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a... simple-reflect monad be possible? < 1322595975 545040 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322596004 587206 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti: hi < 1322596011 711791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: stop kallisti < 1322596017 475146 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322596017 820162 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322596017 999040 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322596021 85392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no. return :: a -> Reflect a < 1322596022 226557 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhat did kallisti do < 1322596023 531308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what string do you use? < 1322596029 312415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fsvo "better" < 1322596029 491513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : FSVO IS MINE < 1322596029 491698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MIIIIIIIINE < 1322596029 491800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: friendship fsvo < 1322596029 491901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: ... fsvo fsvo < 1322596030 258156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : iouhfjkhflsd < 1322596032 215627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hi friendship fsvo help < 1322596034 342266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: HELP < 1322596036 330774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: hlep < 1322596046 667116 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: :( < 1322596192 24944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322596198 439088 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322596266 389731 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322596377 235357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ghc/testsuite/commit/dfdb979305d5ebb7b28fcabce06d9095d81d34da < 1322596381 371279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: terrifying < 1322596416 71426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1322596427 153031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrifying < 1322596467 11397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that’s not all! Humble Introversion Bundle customers now have access to the source code for Darwinia, Multiwinia, DEFCON, and Uplink! Once you've purchased the bundle, check your download page for a source snapshot and gain access to Introversion's developer forums, wiki, and SVN repository. < 1322596468 839746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!1183748975438957 < 1322596484 925490 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the call stack thing which he promised a while ago? < 1322596499 270244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS BEING EXPOSED TO USER CODE... < 1322596512 221760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://plus.google.com/107890464054636586545/posts/YJzAAxw28N7 < 1322596522 944242 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322596607 923303 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this thinge.. < 1322596632 339264 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :call stack inspection for ghc haskells? < 1322596639 377478 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrifying indeed < 1322596651 387054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about call stack /manipulation/? < 1322596807 246224 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think this is old news that I saw in here but didn't process properly, but Introversion source now available for Humble Bundle purchasers < 1322596816 170815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : But that’s not all! Humble Introversion Bundle customers now have access to the source code for Darwinia, Multiwinia, DEFCON, and Uplink! Once you've purchased the bundle, check your download page for a source snapshot and gain access to Introversion's developer forums, wiki, and SVN repository. < 1322596816 350632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : !!!!!!!1183748975438957 < 1322596816 350796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : you mean the call stack thing which he promised a while ago? < 1322596816 350896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: yes but I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS BEING EXPOSED TO USER CODE... < 1322596817 167577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://plus.google.com/107890464054636586545/posts/YJzAAxw28N7 < 1322596819 131662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh < 1322596821 126816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is this thinge.. < 1322596823 215848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : call stack inspection for ghc haskells? < 1322596825 176971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : terrifying indeed < 1322596827 138217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : what about call stack /manipulation/? < 1322596829 201946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I think this is old news that I saw in here but didn't process properly, but Introversion source now available for Humble Bundle purchasers < 1322596835 515296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo's memory lasts less than 6 minutes < 1322596846 169234 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I could swear I saw it earlier than 6 minutes ago < 1322596851 471070 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like hours ago or something < 1322596950 602220 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe his memory only keeps the first reference < 1322597020 818819 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: "Major online game" -> "Active Worlds" < 1322597035 345221 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION coughs < 1322597055 152909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322597080 301231 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322597133 114415 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, he remembers things from hours ago, Sgeo is quite the memory artist < 1322597170 46985 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he should join a circus < 1322597172 433969 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nothing, i remember things from _months_ ago. like, er, um... < 1322597176 592541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322597177 405491 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you too < 1322597179 202425 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322597179 381520 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introversion forums, why are you down? < 1322597302 27057 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322597319 189257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still remembers most of his schedule throughout high school. < 1322597351 550315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and college schedules, even! < 1322597371 238130 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely remember that i once remembered my schedule < 1322597440 848290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I took some typing class and geometry at the same time. < 1322597442 86423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bad. < 1322597454 634186 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing < 1322597455 448778 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :class < 1322597459 862957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????? < 1322597460 605969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322597467 329429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like "how to use microsoft office: the class" < 1322597473 459949 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow great < 1322597474 260527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it included a lot of typing of documents < 1322597476 108154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spreadsheets. < 1322597488 777646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was actually awesome because I would always finish first and then basically do nothing the rest of the class. < 1322597495 888249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally doing nothing is boring < 1322597500 676265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doing nothing with a computer is AWESOME. < 1322597506 354184 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my high school schedule was unscheduled time, not exactly hard to remember that schedule < 1322597511 682436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads the Uplink source. < 1322597545 210511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I also took this class called construction < 1322597547 428096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was hilarious < 1322597550 702008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and awful. < 1322597557 108476 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining a class about playing with blocks < 1322597559 815411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I USED SAWS. YEAAAAAH < 1322597570 9524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at saws. < 1322597576 606752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We call that DT over here. < 1322597581 533454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except jigsaws. jigsaws are fun. < 1322597602 237192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a stick man out of metal and also a plastic self-portrait. < 1322597695 339615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, a stick man out of metal and a stick man out of plastic? < 1322597707 628403 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was a Phantom_Hoover. < 1322597759 405388 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-173-239.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322597797 200262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frida_Kahlo_(self_portrait).jpg "Its inclusion in the article adds significantly to the article because it shows the subject of the article" < 1322597802 549419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frida Kahlo is the history of art. < 1322597862 235292 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-227-218.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322598364 354097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As you’ve discovered, the grandaddy machine-learning algorithm of them all, back-propagation, is nothing but steepest descent with reverse mode automatic differentiation. This means that if you wrote a neural network that simply evaluated, but didn’t know how to learn, and passed it into a routine for optimisation using steepest descent by reverse mode AD, then it would use back-propagation without anyone having to even know that such a thing < 1322598364 647808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : as back-propagation existed. Internally it would actually perform exactly the same operations as back propagation." < 1322598370 645266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks for being wrong, it's made me google up things and remember how cool AD is < 1322598656 26347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: neat < 1322598822 457269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv log 0 < 1322598823 563153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1322598827 90955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha < 1322598837 697034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv abs 0 < 1322598838 756183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322598853 628683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1322598860 634871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>deriv (\x -> if x > 5 then 0 else x) 4 < 1322598865 818845 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> if x > 5 then 0 else x) 4 < 1322598867 42762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322598869 853087 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> if x > 5 then 0 else x) 6 < 1322598870 993233 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322598898 622226 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I put in 5 it's going to be 1, isn't it, even though that's not the right answer < 1322598901 118786 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> if x > 5 then 0 else x) 5 < 1322598902 162558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322598917 783619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it not right? < 1322598928 670073 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nevermind.. < 1322598947 753248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"limits? what are those?" < 1322598949 409289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Were you expecting itto work perfectly? < 1322598953 839320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it to < 1322598961 349045 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but I can dream, can't I? < 1322598970 524095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1322598995 634673 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe there should be an if' function that ... does something < 1322599009 354231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322599013 496608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does it determine that constants have a derivative of zero but variables have a derivative of one. actually nevermind I see how it works for variables but not for constants. < 1322599038 242315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just passes in the argument with the 1 < 1322599045 193965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could have (==*) :: (Eq a) => Diff a -> Diff a -> Diff Bool; ifE :: Diff Bool -> Diff a -> Diff a, but I have no clue what you'd do with Diff Bools. < 1322599050 465756 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if' :: (Num a) -> a -> (a,a) -> (a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a < 1322599060 470960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322599061 707446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322599068 35687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... nevermind < 1322599069 255162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: const 1 :: Diff Double -> Diff Double < 1322599072 523466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: === const (D 1 0) < 1322599073 39634 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fromInteger in the Num instance? < 1322599080 745409 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent read the thing < 1322599081 119676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :const (D 1 0) (D 0 1) == (D 1 0) < 1322599081 407567 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1322599083 68319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah < 1322599088 60259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago i read stuff about AD then i forgot it all < 1322599088 903500 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322599105 33192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "bad at teaching still" hird < 1322599119 271370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I got it < 1322599120 989611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nevermind. < 1322599229 6121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I keep forgetting fromInteger is a method of Num and not just some magical thing somewhere else. < 1322599312 957300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> 2*x) 3 < 1322599314 217101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1322599352 15254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (sin + cos) x < 1322599352 995690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x + 1 * negate (sin x) < 1322599357 811921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce $ deriv (sin + cos) x < 1322599358 563408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x + 1 * negate (sin x) < 1322599361 184725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1322599380 623125 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reduce < 1322599381 669494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr -> Expr < 1322599397 105066 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reduce $ x - x < 1322599398 246759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1322599407 761040 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce $ x - x < 1322599409 56329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x - x < 1322599418 564472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src reduce < 1322599419 133302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduce _ 0 = undefined < 1322599419 312533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduce x y = (x `quot` d) :% (y `quot` d) < 1322599419 312704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : where d = gcd x y < 1322599419 857239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> a) -> a -> Int -> a < 1322599420 609670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence iterateN :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> Seq a < 1322599420 789120 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence adjust :: (a -> a) -> Int -> Seq a -> Seq a < 1322599421 200682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap adjust :: (a -> a) -> Key -> IntMap a -> IntMap a < 1322599430 896803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wrong reduce < 1322599444 162117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1322599460 726118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd've thought that function would be one of the basic ones. < 1322599484 604037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To do what? Iterate a function? < 1322599487 698943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arguments are all the wrong way around. < 1322599493 434727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a would be the right way. < 1322599496 885822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate and !!, tada! < 1322599517 733394 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought Hoogle was order-blind. < 1322599530 626662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It doesn't exist in the stdlib. < 1322599533 146199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying if it did... < 1322599633 63094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl i n f a = iterate f a !! n < 1322599633 626435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = flip (flip . ((!!) .) . iterate) < 1322599647 177158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (n f a = iterate f a !! n < 1322599648 254667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `=' < 1322599648 659359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322599655 340402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\n f a -> iterate f a !! n) < 1322599656 760894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1322599674 856073 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-26.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322599675 788053 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-58.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322599840 624681 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322599947 467915 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\x acc -> x:acc) [] [x,y,z] < 1322599948 683658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x,y,z] < 1322599965 744971 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (:) [] [x,y,z] -- before someone yells at me about the lambda < 1322599966 985173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x,y,z] < 1322600003 919024 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help quickcheck < 1322600004 476751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322600008 795492 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quickcheck < 1322600009 357367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1322600010 255563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: too late. you can't fix it. < 1322600022 42744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't use lambdas for simple things. < 1322600067 99711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. I'm kind of bad at quantum mechanics. enlighten me: is there anything in quantum mechanics that disproves determinism? < 1322600072 376808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is. < 1322600089 240249 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, disproves it assuming you hold to no causal influences exceeding c < 1322600094 590083 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1322600109 183674 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hidden variables are disproved assuming no non-local influences < 1322600131 55250 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think multiple-worlds is considered deterministic without being a local variable theory < 1322600324 44601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1322600362 799438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'m just wondering if my deterministic viewpoint is perhaps unwarranted due to things I don't understand about the universe. < 1322601062 323872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update < 1322601424 975136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322601556 566386 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322601616 749527 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a 29-step wiki surf loop < 1322601978 674197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first link or last link? < 1322601993 726036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It loops < 1322601995 108535 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1322602018 906099 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which link you mean < 1322602125 198496 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you follow the first or last link on each page? < 1322602130 904190 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last in the intro < 1322602192 827932 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the path in an article on our wiki < 1322602199 860921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that sounds off-topic < 1322602207 664438 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my userspace < 1322602209 589708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322602217 155044 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :User:Taneb/Wiki surf < 1322602222 171795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"made because I am bored and lonely and have no access to IRC" < 1322602225 947836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: http://webchat.freenode.net/ < 1322602230 843185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocked in school < 1322602236 871533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1322602650 921481 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i recalled some of the members of your loop from before but not the loop itself, so i followed it and the link Policy studies -> Public administration has already been broken by an edit < 1322602660 783632 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1322602721 972998 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible I made a mistake < 1322602744 75618 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no, there was definitely a recent edit prior to which that was correct < 1322602750 728232 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1322602766 897815 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, these long loops may not be very stable :P < 1322602900 664838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in suspect the entire Public administration -> Policy studies part was included in what we did previously - all of them sound familiar. < 1322602927 766367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tempting to write a bot to try and find these loops < 1322602937 185118 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i suspect < 1322602947 550361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :longest path from A to A has to be something CS has optimised to hell by now, right? :) < 1322602956 42335 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322602968 118685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only need to do it some 2 million times to get the longest one < 1322602999 192949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (/is/ there a fast algorithm for that? :P) < 1322603025 426281 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah you just need to iterate all pages and for each page follow its path until you hit one you already visited, so it's O(n) in total < 1322603064 20304 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously that's as fast as you can hope for < 1322603071 15189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK :P < 1322603085 157600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: already visited globally, or from the last iteration? < 1322603086 972857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the pagespace < 1322603091 349571 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :globally < 1322603104 447976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess it's not too bad < 1322603107 869505 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to duplicate work < 1322603127 719377 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should _still_ be O(n*max path length) if you don't, though < 1322603135 669134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you only have to track the set of seen pages < 1322603138 605433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all the paths < 1322603142 620669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can flush out paths to disk < 1322603146 124028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't take much ram either < 1322603174 35866 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen pages and the path lengths of them < 1322603205 270871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm right < 1322603256 313276 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be slightly different if you hit a seen page from a previous iteration or a seen page from this one (the latter means a _new_ loop, naturally) < 1322603307 110013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um you can't have a new loop with an immutable set can you < 1322603311 939392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each page has exactly one successor < 1322603350 60894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition there is only zero or one cycles involving any given page < 1322603402 186533 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by "new" i mean "not previously discovered" < 1322603411 890418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322603639 89893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dammit now I want to write this :P < 1322603689 679731 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting the intuitive "last link" detection quite right might be tricky. < 1322603698 647070 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with your section rule. < 1322603700 745089 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322603726 383086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well things like references and the "citation needed" links don't look like [[...]] in wikicode < 1322603743 747610 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1322603744 96790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once you have a section, just scan back for a [[...]] < 1322603756 800190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to isolate the section, just take up to the next line starting with = < 1322603764 688162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or command < 1322604113 740436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: given a page p, start with a node of just that, and connect it to all the n-chains of p. the 0-chain of p is following the first link, the 1-chain of p is following the second (at each step, ofc), the (-1)-chain of p is following the last, the (-2)-chain is second-last, etc. < 1322604122 574065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that wouldn't work unless all pages had the same number of links :( < 1322604131 741694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST WANT A PRETTY GRAPH < 1322604147 476654 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322604149 886166 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322604352 114526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ofc i could just draw a graph of all links but that kind of thing has been done and it isn't related to this game :P < 1322604371 472977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder how well graphviz deals with such massive graphs...) < 1322604939 877010 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1322604960 786071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest netsplit < 1322604963 396806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplit kitten < 1322604968 135086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so adorable < 1322605066 839909 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that that's just oerjan's quit message < 1322605083 85946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no, it's not. < 1322605091 21780 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322605091 866302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he usually goes for "Good night". < 1322605114 819981 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he must be unusually susceptible to netsplits? < 1322605125 732564 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1322605127 844307 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322605132 238038 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is up all the time < 1322605136 509172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I sort of roll about half the people in this channel to one in my head? < 1322605176 792515 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder in which half am I then < 1322605180 404185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh. by the way < 1322605186 443600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I found an example of an applicative functor that isn't a monad, IIRC < 1322605188 410928 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :way the by. < 1322605196 993409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: on the epigram blog. < 1322605198 778339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weigh the bi < 1322605215 310525 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT DOESN'T COUNT IF IT NEEDS DEPENDENT TYPING < 1322605230 276359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um no, in haskell. < 1322605232 430814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.e-pig.org/epilogue/?p=186 < 1322605240 614054 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322605241 555186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Structure cops will note that De is another example of an applicative functor which is not a monad — join would bring things from the far future to the near future, and that had better not be possible. However, where applicative functors in general only pull through traversable functors (containers with finitely many elements), De pulls through all containers. So it’s a bit special. I wonder what it is." < 1322605260 975721 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-40.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: quitter < 1322605348 99240 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a simple way to tell if a list is finite in Haskell? < 1322605372 685089 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"‘NuDe’ is a fixpoint giving co-trees with delayed children." < 1322605382 862138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE < 1322605396 836626 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: not that halts if it isn't < 1322605438 847621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's mcbride, you are surely used to the puns by now :P < 1322605445 487078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: mathematically impossible < 1322605450 665444 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i may not have read that many of his < 1322605467 620297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: really? < 1322605471 655195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's so cool :( < 1322605633 665261 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you... ah.. haskell & theory < 1322605653 896194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all we ever do < 1322605702 297660 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I actually understand folds now < 1322605711 737833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1322605712 221435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322605717 20208 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sort of think of accum as the rest of the fold < 1322605717 920721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how have you failed to understand folds for this long < 1322605718 573617 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that argument that De isn't a Monad looks rather like "it isn't a monad because we have disallowed the obvious way of making it one for semantic reasons." < 1322605724 478531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z [a,b,c,d] < 1322605725 365319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f a (f b (f c (f d z))) < 1322605733 546036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should make a #esoteric-haskell; there's been far more Haskell chat than Minecraft chat. < 1322605734 964070 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldr < 1322605735 465687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z [] = z < 1322605735 645181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs) < 1322605742 5075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um no < 1322605746 579497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because the implementation isn't the specification < 1322605752 144473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (the specification doesn't talk about unsafeCoerce!) < 1322605752 440826 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: +1 < 1322605758 967568 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Haskell is the best esoteric language! < 1322605761 717752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, quiet, you. < 1322605765 479396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: like < 1322605772 397689 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually understand that definition better than the expanded form, I think < 1322605772 829956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the implementation could _also_ implement a function that exposed the unsafeCoerceness < 1322605790 368085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: being able to implement an interface for an implementation doesn't mean that the semantic model can do it, because exposing that interface might /break/ the model < 1322605791 827290 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I though that Minecraft has been forgotten < 1322605815 623481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: s/:/`f`/, s/[]/z/ < 1322605818 618917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a : b : c : d : [] < 1322605819 86320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1322605824 933820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a `f` b `f` c `f` d `f` z < 1322605827 934773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except right-associative) < 1322605828 114033 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because of the Bukkit team's lack of appropriate psychostimulants. < 1322605845 293731 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :infixr 9 `f` < 1322605886 603192 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, i'm not convinced that it gives an example of an Applicative in _haskell_ which cannot be made into a Monad. < 1322605900 199942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because you need unsafeCoerce to implement it? < 1322605919 230948 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In dependent typing, is it possible to make a thingy such that it's impossible to implement a Monad thingy that violates the monad laws? < 1322605925 485374 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the compiler checks the monad laws? < 1322605953 829747 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um the unsafeCoerce isn't even used in the Applicative instance. which is obviously isomorphic to Identity, btw. < 1322605959 218408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it "checks" them because you have to prove them < 1322605968 854539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok < 1322605970 367578 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, cool < 1322605972 325386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you do? < 1322605977 831905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dependent typing. < 1322605981 935676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "cool", heh < 1322605994 162789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Spoken like someone who's never tried to prove anything substantial in Coq or Agda before < 1322606079 96127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The, um < 1322606090 376522 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The top result for "hardback" on DDG is Memory Beta. < 1322606099 60934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the definition box at the top. < 1322606105 567664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do those things have unsafeProveAnything? < 1322606119 941528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well yes < 1322606133 622135 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: unsafeGoodNight < 1322606149 465805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have Axiom unsafeProveAnything : forall x, x. < 1322606158 132168 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when we created ABCDEF...G? < 1322606204 462099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so I have discovered a cupboard in the school lab which contains, among other things, toluene, nitric acid and sulphuric acid. < 1322606205 771922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY < 1322606237 152259 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322606366 186837 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Taneb/ABCDEF...G < 1322606378 158941 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone make sense out of that < 1322606435 803765 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322606442 143289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We didn't even implement ABCDEF < 1322606566 357329 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Sgeo needs a swat for abbreviating Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory < 1322606566 594089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322606626 785776 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322606727 547041 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been swatted for less < 1322606922 474368 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7a53.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322607028 489692 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :AbstractBeanClassDelegationExceptionFactoryGenerator < 1322607269 393327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle zipWith5 < 1322607269 715946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List zipWith5 :: (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] -> [e] -> [f] < 1322607271 347878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss < 1322607380 558766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's a fast way of doing (last . takeWhile p) < 1322607484 182171 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322607484 399347 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322607484 399488 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322607641 168459 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :last . takeWhile p < 1322607772 135675 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr1 (\a b -> if p b then b else a), maybe < 1322607903 824128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Fast :P < 1322607907 212689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fair enough < 1322607911 799412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine if it has a Maybe result < 1322607967 289306 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that slow? < 1322608011 164966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Hmm, I was thinking it'd involve two traversals, but it won't will it < 1322608012 189373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then < 1322608030 506296 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might, but that's still fast < 1322608045 737807 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cons, uncons, cons, uncons < 1322608057 15018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant, they're in lock-step < 1322608060 133779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a strict language it'd be slow < 1322608069 773798 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd still be fast! < 1322608075 681509 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :...unless allocation is slow. < 1322608139 547509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I have a fear of traversing lists multiple times < 1322608143 134947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't do it, ever < 1322608397 389006 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322608441 90904 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# RULE "warm blanket" last . takeWhile p = my'Faster'LastTakeWhile #-} < 1322608558 26089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322609062 354378 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322609266 875244 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322609450 483688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322610999 129561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322611099 399961 :augur[afk]!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :augur < 1322611574 215570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:26:12 is there a canonical example of an applicative functor that isn't a monad? < 1322611574 459025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:26:56 or rather can't have a monad constructed around it. < 1322611574 638038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:29:51 tnks: ZipList < 1322611574 638198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:29:53 tnks: ZipList < 1322611575 929488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAARGH < 1322611587 351426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan GET YOUR ZIPLIST JOIN FORMULATED, I NEED TO GO ON THE OFEFNSIVE ALREADY < 1322611587 533258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322611595 303726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan *OFDSIOFG < 1322611595 482683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322611934 176326 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322612417 106251 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1322612512 212995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover < 1322612515 661883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im disapointe in you < 1322612633 967797 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What? < 1322612636 482908 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList join? < 1322612641 661602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322612664 291385 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make such a thing? < 1322612676 595862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan reckons he has. < 1322612677 777214 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322612692 116465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically just diagonalisation a la the reader monad, but tricksy because of the no guarantee of equal length. < 1322612718 221150 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but I thought that was "tricksy" as in "impossible" because of that. < 1322612719 106104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oerjan is sceptical that there are any Haskell ADTs that can be made applicative functors that can't be made monads (with the two instances agreeing)) < 1322612734 895965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, he wrote it out once in here I think and claimed it worked :P < 1322612764 837246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (oerjan is sceptical that there are any Haskell ADTs that can be made applicative functors that can't be made monads (with the two instances agreeing)) < 1322612768 577528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose that's easily disprovable. < 1322612775 964054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need existential quantification. < 1322613863 995421 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322614305 614324 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322614314 878823 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I had a way of indicating DEFCONery. < 1322614325 850871 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322614973 928295 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322615056 169297 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Client Quit < 1322615101 74003 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322615609 182562 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322615768 561865 :xmorc!~xmorc@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust8.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322615884 144314 :xmorc!~xmorc@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust8.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1322616626 480155 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/CricketBattingAverageHistogram.gif Wow. < 1322617225 165704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :integration should be banned < 1322617300 941737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: join me in "anti integration league" < 1322617305 863133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no that sounds racist < 1322617381 807147 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322617383 589175 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-26.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322617696 581551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1322618146 665311 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1322618151 755845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : integration should be banned < 1322618151 934731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_: join me in "anti integration league" < 1322618151 934916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait no that sounds racist < 1322618156 548818 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1322618163 884533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should it be banned? < 1322618176 845751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's icky. Also uncomputable. < 1322618213 662267 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^in the general case < 1322618235 173185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The general case including........... Newtonian physics < 1322618256 733512 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um? < 1322618284 763230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means numeric approximations < 1322618286 722032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means pain :'( < 1322618368 16047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ("Um?"?) < 1322618922 149528 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322619561 390425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text $ "pikhq: (" ++ fix ("\"" ++) ++ "Um" ++ fix (++ "\"?") ++ ")" < 1322619566 469351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ "pikhq: (" ++ fix ("\"" ++) ++ "Um" ++ fix (++ "\"?") ++ ")" < 1322619573 876382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORK WITH ME HERE LAMBDABOT < 1322619578 511887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322619578 745767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1322619593 807163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "pikhq: (" ++ fix ("\"" ++) ++ "Um" ++ fix (++ "\"?") ++ ")" < 1322619598 793399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322619610 959459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1322620383 637848 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322620389 109182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322622647 209594 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322622686 78153 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322624802 178910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+3) * x) (+4) < 1322624803 653612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1322624803 832476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Data.N... < 1322625022 964843 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm! < 1322625044 736794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((cos^2) + (sin^2)) < 1322625046 161233 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322625046 340217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322625049 242265 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((cos^2) + (sin^2)) 5 < 1322625050 491215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.9999999999999999 < 1322625077 453849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> (+3) * x) < 1322625078 268942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1322625078 448341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Dif a1' < 1322625078 448522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(*)', namely `x' < 1322625089 649378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+3) * x) (+4) 10 < 1322625091 47287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1322625091 226099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Data.N... < 1322625103 234125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@env < 1322625103 413130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v wn < 1322625107 586498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh /me finds L.hs < 1322625114 128051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta track down where deriv is from so I know what the constructor is < 1322625162 760799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/2009.8.9/doc/html/Data-Number-Dif.html < 1322625199 983858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> df (+3) (deriv (+3)) * x) < 1322625200 898445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section `+ 3' takes one argument, < 1322625201 78121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : but its type `Dif a' has none < 1322625201 78298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `df', namely `(+ 3)' < 1322625211 105467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er duh < 1322625223 794964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> df (+3) 1 * x) < 1322625224 744630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section `+ 3' takes one argument, < 1322625224 923457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : but its type `Dif a' has none < 1322625224 923627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `df', namely `(+ 3)' < 1322625226 775854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322625231 454654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> df (+3) 1 * x) < 1322625232 432779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section `+ 3' takes one argument, < 1322625232 611838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : but its type `Dif a' has none < 1322625232 612006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `df', namely `(+ 3)' < 1322625238 241175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1322625240 678640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) < 1322625241 658883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1322625247 510295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) (+4) < 1322625248 483493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322625248 662392 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322625249 971527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ^ < 1322625263 305268 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mkDif < 1322625264 954411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Dif a -> Dif a < 1322625322 71788 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what's wrong with kallisti's original thing? < 1322625346 72639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the types don't work < 1322625350 407986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+3) does not match (Dif _) < 1322625353 233690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's (_ -> _) < 1322625415 657623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1322625419 637753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do fromInteger magic there. < 1322625432 233306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) (+4) pi < 1322625433 58943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: (==): No overloading for function < 1322625437 661885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+ < 1322625451 687623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know why that doesn't work. < 1322625464 703499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) (+4) pi < 1322625465 535798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1322627420 925936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing pi for (->) is const pi? < 1322627436 888543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't exactly be anything else < 1322627475 209491 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322627498 276722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea why the deriv thing there invokes == < 1322627573 163262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mkDif (+3) 1 < 1322627574 201366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322627574 380266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322627578 310234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mkDif (+3) 1 * pi < 1322627579 467285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322627579 646135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322627599 684270 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+ (Dif 3)) * x) (+4) < 1322627600 913369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Dif' < 1322627601 941897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it checks the output for some reason? < 1322627605 848773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1322627612 858946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+ (Dif 3 0)) * x) (+4) < 1322627614 45013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Dif' < 1322627620 688151 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+ (D 3 0)) * x) (+4) < 1322627621 890429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `D' < 1322627754 219526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in you Sgeo. < 1322627762 418416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in your ability to read previous lines of code. < 1322627768 602459 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mkDif < 1322627769 800921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Dif a -> Dif a < 1322627775 495067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yesssss! < 1322627778 543001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :triumph! < 1322627823 895411 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322627825 54272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322627911 583732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now we're told that coyotes don't TYPICALLY eat children" -- local CBS news < 1322628057 579817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1322628082 426452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are apparently some coyotes in Atlanta's parks < 1322628086 911366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(park? I don't know) < 1322628363 387964 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update < 1322628405 387665 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of parks < 1322628428 290946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any has coyotes, i'd bet on palisades < 1322628439 658493 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a forest < 1322628564 170847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no < 1322628629 411474 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322628815 824393 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322629518 66745 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322629758 652195 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322630647 111760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented the functions: opencont, closecont, opencontT, closecontT < 1322630723 527488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1322630771 319569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :opencont (Barrier a c) = Barrier (a, c) opencont; closecont (Barrier (a, c) f) = Barrier a $ closecont . f . c; < 1322630797 490380 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322630807 166780 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still has no idea what barrier monads are < 1322630812 153075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody does < 1322630817 500435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :closecont . opencont = id < 1322630851 321447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know about the generator functions (with yield) in JavaScript and in Python? Barrier monads is similar to that < 1322630861 449659 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322630873 645674 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not familiar with JS, but am familiar with Python generator functions < 1322630901 9613 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Haskell library with yield somewhere < 1322630903 871558 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the JS and Python generator functions are similar to each other < 1322631151 160980 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322631185 329846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322631390 516434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631390 695300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (++) tail . flip flip [] . ((:) .) < 1322631393 902693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@t \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631394 216683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1322631395 885979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631398 79413 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ([a] -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322631403 787278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. hoogle ty \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631404 112303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "ty" < 1322631407 610947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. hoogle type \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631408 394329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1322631408 573431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : forall a. ([a] -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322631408 573521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322631415 63900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ([a] -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322631415 828159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Marshal.Utils withMany :: (a -> (b -> res) -> res) -> [a] -> ([b] -> res) -> res < 1322631416 7014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases ext1Q :: (Data d, Typeable1 t) => (d -> q) -> (forall e. Data e => t e -> q) -> d -> q < 1322631703 632428 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/generator/0.5.4/doc/html/Control-Monad-Generator.html < 1322631793 530168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1322631797 182667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: isn't that just Writer < 1322631798 921870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except stupid < 1322631823 839296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life is weird at times. < 1322631832 77086 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Ventricaria_ventricosa.JPG That's a fucking single-celled life form. < 1322631861 17191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They typically are 1-4 centimeters in diameter. < 1322631905 48213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that Barrier is more like Python's abilities to pass in arguments to a generator? < 1322631926 584703 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, actually, even getting items out one at a time makes sense, doesn't it... no, it does not < 1322631938 39572 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except as an already existing monad < 1322631957 239525 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will laziness cause the writer monad to also pause? < 1322631969 241106 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I only ask for the log < 1322631988 365845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pause"? < 1322632013 731892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, not continuing to compute past, say, the first tell until I ask for the next item in the list < 1322632033 344633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could it compute things you didn't force < 1322632075 466552 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the other function used with the Writer monad < 1322632112 226727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In JavaScript, there is a function g.send(x) that sends x to the result of yield inside of the generator function < 1322632128 2684 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Python has something similar < 1322632146 947757 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess that's what Barrier monads do? < 1322632180 203568 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Monad: and other essays upon the higher consciousness - Google Books Result" < 1322632180 382327 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322632189 606521 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The sceptic erects a barrier round himself by his aggressive unbelief — a barrier which it is not worth the while of the non-physical entity to pierce ..." < 1322632215 291270 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it does that. This is the definition: data Barrier f b t = Unit t | Barrier f (b -> Barrier f b t) | Fail String; yield :: f -> Barrier f b b; yield = flip Barrier Unit; < 1322632305 991844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322632318 621292 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So f is the type of values that can be passed out of the Barrier monad, and b is the type that can go into it? < 1322632376 863253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1322632387 703200 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cool < 1322632394 41259 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it on Hackage yet? < 1322632394 683515 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1322632413 979854 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. But I will put it on later. < 1322632460 806406 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It vaguely reminds me of Iteratees, although Iteratees can only give one answer < 1322632466 304794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322632757 596845 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function to make it to a list is collect :: Barrier f () t -> [f] < 1322632791 281679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also reverse operation is uncollect :: [x] -> Barrier x a () < 1322632965 477131 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to envision bind < 1322632992 389688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell you how I defined it if you want that < 1322633007 975370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess if the thing on the left is a Barrier f (b -> Barrier f b t), the whole thing could be of that form < 1322633061 785122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure < 1322633115 868958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unit x >>= f = f x; Barrier a c >>= f = Barrier a $ c >=> f; < 1322633180 140743 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is far more concise than I could have written at first glance. < 1322633209 953426 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume Fail a >>= _ = Fail a < 1322633210 332502 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322633224 523675 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1322633246 596652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is instance of Alternative which is based on that. < 1322633256 458853 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322633262 352819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still a bit shaky on how Alternatives work in general < 1322633267 507844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what they're useful for < 1322633282 864930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except parsing monads, ofc, but I don't understand how parsing monads work internally either < 1322633341 292557 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They allow parser embiggenment < 1322633369 525400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can be used with things other than parsers too. < 1322633413 421285 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322633502 51193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added a MonadPlus instance. However, it doesn't follow the right zero law but MonadPlus for many other monads also does not follow right zero law (but there are also many that do follow the right zero law). < 1322633521 302948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty = Fail []; Unit x <|> _ = Unit x; Fail y <|> x = annotateFail y x; Barrier a c <|> x = Barrier a $ \y -> (c y <|> x); < 1322633529 490983 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzero = empty; mplus = (<|>); < 1322633626 95851 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322633633 90315 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, when you were writing Barrier a c >>= f = Barrier a $ c >=> f, did you first write that c >=> f as something else? < 1322633651 620844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I want reassurance that I don't need to catch things like that immediately < 1322633694 590215 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did first write it like that, but maybe some other people might not (I don't know) < 1322633923 788477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it should be possible to write crosstalk :: Barrier f b t1 -> Barrier b f t2 -> ([f],[b]), right? < 1322633985 15119 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what if one wants to consume more than the other? < 1322634488 990660 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have not thought of that function, but I might be able to. I suppose if one wants to consume more than the other, then you just use the shorter one < 1322635045 379428 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322635062 665062 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322635327 794769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oklopol remember when you used to be stupid? j-invariant: actually i probably couldn't lecture all night, since the first nontrivial thing you usually do about CA is a theorem i actually don't know how to prove :D < 1322635328 11373 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to do this: crosstalk :: Barrier f b t1 -> Barrier b f t2 -> [(f, b)]; crosstalk (Barrier a1 c1) (Barrier a2 c2) = (a1, a2) : crosstalk (c1 a2) (c2 a1); crosstalk _ _ = []; < 1322635328 11562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322636075 265465 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322636496 5552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosstalkT :: (Functor m, Monad m) => BarrierT f b m t1 -> BarrierT b f m t2 -> m [(f, b)]; crosstalkT x y = liftM2 (liftA2 (,)) (runBarrierT (() <$ x)) (runBarrierT (() <$ y)) >>= either (const $ return []) (\((a1, c1), (a2, c2)) -> ((a1, a2) :) <$> crosstalkT (c1 a2) (c2 a1)); < 1322636804 92280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosstalkT x y = liftM2 (liftA2 (,)) (runBarrierT ([] <$ x)) (runBarrierT ([] <$ y)) >>= either return (\((a1, c1), (a2, c2)) -> ((a1, a2) :) <$> crosstalkT (c1 a2) (c2 a1)); < 1322637204 308969 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322637778 149552 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322638401 42776 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle deriv < 1322638401 811132 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package derivation-trees < 1322638401 989917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package derive < 1322638401 990090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package derive-gadt < 1322638412 313417 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, mu-eval doesn't have those. < 1322638419 269860 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322638420 451183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322638426 705434 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322638427 546667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Dif < 1322638427 725656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases ext1T :: (Data d, Typeable1 t) => (forall e. Data e => e -> e) -> (forall f. Data f => t f -> t f) -> d -> d < 1322638669 710478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: i found the package earlier < 1322638746 331733 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you actually added it to lambdabot? < 1322638755 601772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1322638774 857169 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src deriv < 1322638775 389031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1322638796 198982 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also how does AD work in languages like C where there's no operator overloading. < 1322638803 679457 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it could be used to differentiate C functions and the like. < 1322638809 112376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :external tools < 1322638818 223040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ they do horrible template hacks < 1322638899 165556 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh < 1322638909 495058 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you do anything complex in C++ < 1322638983 628153 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it require the C source? < 1322638987 276724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1322639080 800771 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who knows it could do some machine code hacks. < 1322639137 763415 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so if you didn't add ad to lambdabot how is it there? < 1322639145 60258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot imports a fuckton of shit < 1322639152 614257 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1322639165 252312 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I guess mu-eval hasn't caught up or doesn't use the same imports. < 1322639170 282166 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very picky about its imports. < 1322639440 555146 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of the package that defines deriv? < 1322639487 775144 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried ad, fad, rad, and Data.Ring.Module.AutomaticDifferentiation but I don't think it's the same one < 1322639502 436702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: stop attributing these things to mueval < 1322639504 419362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is L.hs alone < 1322639572 577392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I wish this glib queue had the property I want < 1322639610 198739 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: L.hs? < 1322639617 966072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: see lambdabot sourec < 1322639844 887914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lists encode an at-most: < 1322639848 663696 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Number.Dif is commented out from the mueval source. :( < 1322639852 457599 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] fits the type [a], [[a]], etc. < 1322639863 444287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: mueval is irrelevant < 1322639876 612313 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...to? < 1322639877 169243 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to encode at-least? < 1322639883 996690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: the lambdabot imports < 1322639888 708471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't have any idea what you are talking about < 1322639890 317931 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's certainly relevant to what I'm talking about. < 1322639894 535267 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not lambdabot < 1322639896 209652 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mueval < 1322639908 369166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322639924 510870 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..I mean, clearly lambdabot imports it. < 1322639927 924586 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't the issue. :P < 1322639935 632506 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] fits the type [[[a]]], as do [[]] and [[[]]] and [[[[]]]] but [[[[[]]]]] does not < 1322639977 776362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Typeclasses could be used to clean up that a, but I need to go to sleep soon) < 1322639996 101333 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [[[a]]] means "Accept at most [[[[]]]] but no numbers larger than that" < 1322640015 644605 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Treating these nested lists as numbers) < 1322640034 121079 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go to sleep now, I have an exam tomorrow < 1322640113 748941 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'd wonder if tuples are a better bet, but there are no one-element tuples < 1322640122 48561 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and also, it wouldn't work, so n/m < 1322640160 664157 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-tuples are a completely pointless thing. < 1322640169 185991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this sucks < 1322640195 858235 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except newtypes I guess. newtypes are kind of like 1-tuples I guess. < 1322640213 569361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point here is the nesting, though < 1322640250 367712 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (Just (Just Nothing ) ) zomg < 1322640317 491589 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works just as well (or better), but which is easier to type? < 1322640327 648851 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Nothing :: Maybe ( Maybe ( Maybe a ) ) < 1322640328 862389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1322640376 461455 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm curious about is if it's possible to encode at-least < 1322640380 64083 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which is less broken. (not completely unbroken, but less broken at least) < 1322640397 279442 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does that even mean. < 1322640406 458849 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I read the explanation above; still confused) < 1322640412 983008 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Values of a certain "value" or greater, as specified in the type, pass the type < 1322640416 460642 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, what are you doing. < 1322640434 672919 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I currently have is values of a certain "value", or less, as specified in the type, pass the type < 1322640441 685108 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [] represents 0, for instance < 1322640456 598823 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And passes [a], [[a]], [[[a]]], etc < 1322640459 506472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Deewiant: I need a C language lawyer, ping < 1322640465 368212 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong < 1322640483 428652 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas [[]] represents 1 and passes ... erm, [a], [[a]], [[[a]]]. Let's say that [[]] is 0 < 1322640494 478657 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[]]] passes.... ok, bluh < 1322640496 469374 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need a real lawyer; I may actually kill Sgeo. < 1322640499 501580 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start this again < 1322640501 618962 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: [[]] doesn't pass [a] < 1322640509 544644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does C99 give enough guaranteed on accesses to a global volatile bool so that {x = false;} and {x = true;} are atomic with respect to "if (x)" < 1322640520 519362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] doesn't fit the oh so heavy burden imposed by a? < 1322640528 757911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. can I assume it works like an atomic shared bit for setting and testing < 1322640536 679142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Setting to constants) < 1322640558 333377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At sequence points, volatile objects are stable in the sense that previous accesses are complete and subsequent accesses have not yet occurred." < 1322640569 201967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say that [] is 0. It passes [()], [[()]], [[[()]]], etc. < 1322640581 681823 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [[]] :: [a] < 1322640582 904067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a1' against inferred type `[a]' < 1322640583 82726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `a1' is a ... < 1322640593 430311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: You can pass [[]] to a function expecting [a] < 1322640597 195450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is I think Sgeo's point < 1322640605 531079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Alright. I still feel bad about using it. < 1322640613 950728 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[]] 1, by contrast, does not fit [()], but does fit [[()]], [[[()]]], etc. < 1322640641 775776 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let id :: [a] -> [a]; id x = x in id [[]] < 1322640643 56385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[]] < 1322640650 204184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (I was hoping to eliminate the global volatile variable world_running from mcmap, but GLib doesn't offer something as simple as "a queue that you can disown so that pushes just do nothing" (or equivalent).) < 1322640660 843770 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, So, [[]] 1 is not at-most [()] 0 < 1322640668 942963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (So removing world_running would cause every received world-relevant packet to leak memory in the queue.) < 1322640669 122001 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322640669 918684 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The former is the value, the latter is the type) < 1322640671 876064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If the world's stopped.) < 1322640697 170709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, [()] in the type means at-most 0. [[()]] in the type means at-most 1. etc. < 1322640710 894454 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't you clear the queue at some later time? < 1322640720 672160 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still pondering potential usages of this, but I also have to wonder if there's a way to encode at-least. < 1322640721 866124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Clear it howso < 1322640731 492650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The point is that after the world thread ends, nobody is popping the queue < 1322640735 420375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the proxy thread is still pushing < 1322640747 571638 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When does this matter < 1322640767 231805 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world thread sounds like something important (note: I have no idea what the threads are for) < 1322640784 270840 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, is anything I'm saying making sense? < 1322640795 534034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When the world thread crashes in a predictable manner :) < 1322640812 802554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: fizzie thought it important that the proxy continue to function even if the map and commands break < 1322640822 331668 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And you want to keep the program running after this? < 1322640827 360585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("chunk update decompression: inflateInit: %s", zError(err)); < 1322640827 539684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("chunk update decompression: inflate: %s", zError(err)); < 1322640827 539849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("broken decompressed chunk length: %d != %d and < %d", < 1322640827 539950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("too high chunk update: %d..%d", y0, y0+ys-1); < 1322640833 292440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it happens when chunk updates are fucked < 1322640842 693163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it already does < 1322640849 599246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haven't Mojang fixed them? < 1322640858 649282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It works fine without even world_running, it just leaks memory < 1322640873 616177 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um... I guess. < 1322640877 4201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd rather remove stop entirely or make it not leak memory and not use a volatile global < 1322640880 954982 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. I don't know why you're doing that. < 1322640882 437418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to achieve the latter < 1322640887 375213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, BECAUSE I CAN < 1322640888 978621 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What exactly works fine, what does the world thread do :-P < 1322640897 831757 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also: Note: Practical usages still to be determined) < 1322640901 661058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Processes incoming world-relevant packets < 1322640908 431184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Map chunk updates, entity position updates, chat messages < 1322640919 558726 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: DUDE EITHER ENCODES LIKE..... LINKED LISTS < 1322640921 376388 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, so, what exactly is still happening without the world thread < 1322640923 632929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Basically the world thread handles everything that isn't part of mcmap's fun ol' proxying/console regime < 1322640925 424031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Proxying < 1322640928 244739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proxying and the console < 1322640934 339378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: iirc it handles tracking of the world, for map display purposes and so on. Basically everything that isn't just "pass on to client/server" < 1322640935 12559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The map just freezes < 1322640945 286321 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, hmh < 1322640950 642688 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Either Int (Either Bool (Either (IO Awesome) ())) < 1322640955 748464 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :duuuuude think of the implications < 1322640964 741216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The world thread is separate because fizzie thinks processing world packets might be slow; in reality the threading overhead almost certainly dwarfs it, but that's a battle for another day) < 1322640972 276902 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322640983 679405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I get the feeling that a volatile global is The Way to do this, and if I want to avoid them I should use a super-high-level concurrency library < 1322640994 217967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than glib's "here's some thread-starting functions... and a mutex... and a queue". < 1322640999 815152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have fun with that." < 1322641003 23925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322641010 159120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Heck, glib even has some operations on volatile pointers to lock bits atomically.) < 1322641029 350777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so are the glib threads any better than pure pthreads? Apart from portability concerns that is. < 1322641062 229118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, they have a bit more than just mutexes; run-once sections, conditions, and the aforementioned queues < 1322641068 947894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe pthreads has queues, I dunno < 1322641070 995937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But portability is nice < 1322641082 514277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also read-write locks < 1322641084 332112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice too < 1322641088 775921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know pthreads have condition variables. No idea about run-once sections. < 1322641105 515898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ~RECURSIVE MUTEXES~ < 1322641112 466935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthreads have that < 1322641125 834140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pthread_rwlock_init < 1322641136 158383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm wondering why I don't just make stopf situations drop the current packet < 1322641141 677853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The network protocol is synchronised at that point anyway < 1322641145 830842 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adjective: < 1322641147 76720 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of words or the person speaking them) Fluent and voluble but insincere and shallow. < 1322641155 30788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... I'm gonna do that < 1322641162 521635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm... won't that fuck up for the client? < 1322641175 691166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This happens after it's forwarded to the client < 1322641178 822326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322641186 237028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Notchian client just sort of magically makes sense of any data you throw at it < 1322641197 18976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: might want to rename it from stopf to something else then < 1322641212 39016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? I guess you should look at mcp stuff to figure out what you are missing then < 1322641215 315968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not going to modify the macro to insert a return :-P < 1322641221 398412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it mostly just ignores things < 1322641224 462646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322641229 511429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we ever actually get these stopf errors these days < 1322641237 583915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's life, or some such < 1322641246 972906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1322641251 64596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(university) < 1322641260 576925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like unicrappity < 1322641291 234439 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1322641294 606279 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(christmas carols) < 1322641319 477505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My delightful new prefix for these "zlib fucked up" errors is [WHAT] < 1322641746 194091 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cracked.com/article_16508_6-terrifying-things-they-dont-tell-you-about-childbirth.html < 1322641751 474058 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm on this part of the internet again. < 1322642130 267724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any proper name for this? data T a b = T b ((T a b -> a) -> a); What is its meaning? < 1322642333 94569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322642371 715620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can you please shoot whoever made gcc too stupid to realise that if (...) { x = y; } else if (...) { x = z; } else call_noreturn_function() cannot leave x uninitialised < 1322642402 961938 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot! < 1322642403 140582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322642464 113603 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah, but what if somebody else provides a call_noreturn_function() that actually returns < 1322642477 853928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IT'S __ATTRIBUTE__((NORETURN)) < 1322642478 860145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE HEADER < 1322642493 981584 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do those __attribute__s actually have to match? < 1322642495 528950 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot whoever made you use -Werror < 1322642496 511042 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure) < 1322642517 504088 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has just now watched double rainbow. < 1322642522 248625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't define it with that attribute in the .c file since it includes the relevant header :-P < 1322642530 516614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: fizzie < 1322642548 577838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: But I'm kinda warning-phobic anyway, it only takes about four warnings to make me start ignoring any fifth warning that might pop up < 1322642550 114772 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But anyway, what if you explicitly return thereafter < 1322642552 318388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322642577 900327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Doesn't work (thank god) < 1322642587 108031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it's complaining about < 1322642594 959358 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember the zero-one-infinity rule. Fix all warnings, or fix the first warning, or ignore all warnings < 1322642595 820607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just complaining because I declare them without initialising them RIGHT THERE... < 1322642611 920859 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is easy anyway, you can initialize almost anything with 0 < 1322642616 995335 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be thankful you're not in C++ < 1322642635 814019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bGIN ;; COME ON LET ME APPLY THIS < 1322642643 925279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Nope, socket_t must be used abstractly here < 1322642647 69077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Could be a struct < 1322642657 626467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: On Windows it's a "SOCKET", whatever that is < 1322642680 317971 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shout, for one thing < 1322642706 350072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW once I get around to pushing this stuff could you test the Windows build, I think it should even be working < 1322642781 377041 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I'm next in Windows after that, sure < 1322643900 96317 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo for abbreviating Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory -----### < 1322643900 342510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322643957 643361 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ZipList < 1322643958 820616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> ZipList a < 1322644468 917887 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7,8,9]] < 1322644470 585673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644478 911897 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) [] < 1322644480 526267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1322644708 976227 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\setbox0=\hbox{\write16{\csname zzz\endcsname}}\show\zzz\shipout\box0\show\zzz < 1322644760 202632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that it? < 1322644763 134251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Language lawyer time < 1322644771 646258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is it OK to define a function in a header and then never talk about it again and then link the program < 1322644773 136420 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a small part < 1322644790 519682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Define, not declare? < 1322644794 673235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, declare < 1322644811 790660 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course < 1322644869 232133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gross < 1322644872 262048 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1322644894 946982 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((drop 1 .) . (:)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644895 761765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1322644900 24132 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the alternative would be macro hacks. < 1322644901 300372 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322644905 722504 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: math.h can be used without linking libm, you know :-P < 1322644929 997707 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((. drop 1) . (:)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644930 583758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BUT STILL < 1322644930 817621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1322644935 512484 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322644945 653465 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr1 ((. drop 1) . (:)) < 1322644946 467528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1322644946 649348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [a] < 1322644946 649525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: [[a]] < 1322644949 354084 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty (. drop 1) . (:) < 1322644950 510309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> [a] -> [a] < 1322644955 386653 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty scanr1 < 1322644956 667887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322644964 277314 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322644980 744947 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty scanr < 1322644981 993945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> [b] < 1322644986 620462 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr ((. drop 1) . (:)) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644988 584123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[[1,2,3]],[[4,5]],[[6,7]],[]] < 1322645000 580936 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr ((drop 1 .) . (:)) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645002 250950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[],[],[]] < 1322645010 921036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322645035 261328 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((. drop 1) . (++)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645036 956754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,5,7],[4,5,7],[6,7]] < 1322645043 275325 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((drop 1 .) . (++)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645045 155852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[2,3,5,6,7],[5,6,7],[6,7]] < 1322645059 274379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Deewiant for disturbing him < 1322645065 555072 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -----### < 1322645076 324717 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're you trying to do :-P < 1322645086 614807 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList join < 1322645140 824886 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (. ?f) . (:) < 1322645141 640455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (?f::f [a], Functor f) => a -> f [a] < 1322645141 820114 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I made a join function for ZipList < 1322645179 786148 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Prelude.. ?f) Prelude.. (:) < 1322645180 613513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (?f::a -> [a1]) => a1 -> a -> [a1] < 1322645201 785460 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1322645209 659607 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless is pointless today < 1322645233 409115 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: complete double rainbow all the way. < 1322645241 563395 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645242 537712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => [[[a]]] < 1322645247 108377 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645247 942119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[[1,2,3],[5],[]],[[4,5],[7]],[[6,7]],[]] < 1322645254 809214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322645259 550953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645260 358380 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3],[5],[]] < 1322645357 780856 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let join = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] in join < 1322645358 603381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ZipList [a] -> ZipList a < 1322645364 707173 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322645381 777668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let join = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] in join < 1322645382 644224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ZipList (ZipList a) -> ZipList a < 1322645403 38020 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let zjoin = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] in zjoin < 1322645403 532204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error: in < 1322645409 164469 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let zjoin = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] < 1322645410 386654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322645417 79136 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ze join < 1322645445 939652 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> getZipList . zjoin . ZipList . map ZipList $ [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7,8,9]] < 1322645447 584474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,5] < 1322645457 895881 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1322645458 648402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what are the monad laws stated with join... < 1322645459 730344 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1322645495 244092 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a cold so i'm not sure i can get all that < 1322645509 989674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't join (return m) = m one of them? < 1322645520 816136 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just writing that. < 1322645523 407855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: assuredly < 1322645547 63091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and return (join m) = m, presumably? < 1322645563 990036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that doesn't look reversible < 1322645589 379712 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also join (return m) = m needs to be well typed < 1322645614 681121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (fmap g (join (fmap f m))) = join (fmap (join . fmap g . f) m) < 1322645620 392055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the long one < 1322645622 18682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated directly < 1322645624 324717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uh < 1322645625 379240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite ugly < 1322645626 951250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff like that < 1322645630 575323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well < 1322645633 219080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join x = join y < 1322645634 821901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be reduced to < 1322645635 783820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = y < 1322645636 610570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1322645637 417848 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely there must be some blog that has them < 1322645650 596059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap g (join (fmap f m)) = fmap (join . fmap g . f) m < 1322645654 382624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and surely we can lift that join outwards... < 1322645662 442639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok < 1322645665 782873 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: join is not a reversible operation, i said < 1322645677 799919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The standard monad laws. < 1322645677 980189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . return == id < 1322645678 161379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . fmap return == id < 1322645678 161458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . join == join . fmap join < 1322645683 70500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those ones, apparently < 1322645692 299778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those seem... strangely short < 1322645697 704104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess associativity is a detail of (>>=) itself < 1322645702 810377 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join [[1]] == join [[],[1]] < 1322645703 633482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322645710 280412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also the laws of fmap itself as a Functor, of course < 1322645719 971882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but we know those are OK < 1322645722 466820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we're only introducing Monad < 1322645734 605274 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap, like batman, has only one rule. < 1322645753 66796 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: two, actually < 1322645754 418766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ZipList return < 1322645754 604814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. That's something I cannot allow to happen. < 1322645758 568689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grr* < 1322645789 389363 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiro[3[[3452#$[323523[62[45#${^347[2246}$%&4[646}#$%[34]3[4534[3[$)%%_3# < 1322645867 802400 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain was _just_ too fried to get \x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs into point-free form, so the monad laws are obviously beyond reach. < 1322645869 425471 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ZipList has similar to (Natural ->) monad (that is, assuming a type for any natural numbers!) < 1322645882 455418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that ZipList can be finite < 1322645886 896136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm working on proving these btw < 1322645927 638185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm would you call map getZipList (repeat m) = repeat (getZipList m) a distributive property < 1322645928 775264 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foldr (.) id . map fmap == fmap . foldr (.) id < 1322645954 636297 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it's the finiteness that makes it complicated. in particular if the sublists are not sorted by length, monad laws break without the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) adjustment. i _hope_ that's enough. < 1322645982 619078 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0P_btTkUgg < 1322645988 169836 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: the problem isn't me understanding it in general, it's understanding it when i have a cold < 1322645996 858627 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shit was off the chain wicked bananas. < 1322646000 394758 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, my rule doesn't type in Haskell < 1322646034 325591 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to include the actual function mapped over < 1322646061 535673 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to make it pointfree < 1322646078 909547 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: oh that's your formulation of the functor laws as one equation? < 1322646091 843559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 f (repeat x) < 1322646092 680893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x,f x x,f (f x x) x,f (f (f x x) x) x,f (f (f (f x x) x) x) x,f (f (f (f (... < 1322646108 515694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-kay < 1322646122 165626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: proof of first law is currently at " ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . repeat $ getZipList m" btw < 1322646129 201991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1322646129 854902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what this is? data T a b = T b ((T a b -> a) -> a); I don't know what this is? < 1322646130 586017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very far :P < 1322646142 665239 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one law that says a functor is a group homeomorphism or something < 1322646155 212606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw what would you call \x xs -> x : map (drop 1) xs < 1322646156 607739 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might want to understand join on a more intuitive level first? < 1322646160 233573 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly in Haskell they must be written as two laws < 1322646171 952120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put it in its own definition to keep my columns sane :P < 1322646176 612582 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cobarrier monads < 1322646185 347337 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :barrier comonads? < 1322646188 437645 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobarrier comonads? < 1322646188 743866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha! as if I could apply _intuition_ to a problem like this < 1322646222 428840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't zipWith (flip const) = flip (zipWith const) < 1322646223 356448 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I understand join on an intuitive level. does that mean I can prove everything? < 1322646246 364409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith (flip const) x x < 1322646247 192471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1322646247 371837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `SimpleRef... < 1322646253 662641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \xs -> zipWith (flip const) xs xs == xs < 1322646254 780071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "OK, passed 500 tests." < 1322646258 505723 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hoo hoo hoo < 1322646262 502672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: Actually I don't know what it is. < 1322646298 413403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: btw what would you call \x xs -> x : map (drop 1) xs < 1322646303 879664 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322646312 67157 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a cobarrier monad.. < 1322646312 247178 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the intuition is to take the diagonal of a matrix, but with the restriction that not just the diagonal elements but all elements above and to the left must also exist < 1322646325 136778 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (it's probabky not) < 1322646339 691583 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: shear? < 1322646343 349176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1322646361 159392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (repeat x) < 1322646362 285429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (... < 1322646395 698718 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: astonishing < 1322646402 479944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1322646410 671800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: I think it isn't, but I don't know. But I think it is a functor fmap f (T x y) = T (f x) $ \z -> y (z . fmap f); < 1322646416 582691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now at the point ZipList . concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . fix . shear $ getZipList m :P < 1322646423 142631 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: well you also have to understand _proofs_, i guess < 1322646437 78052 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure I get proofs. < 1322646445 193669 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, then there's hope. < 1322646451 416365 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with X, you do shit until it's Y. QED < 1322646478 696587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ZipList . concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . fix $ \xs -> getZipList m : map (drop 1) xs < 1322646482 585801 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: i assume you're being sarcastic < 1322646487 491900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like we're getting somewhere < 1322646493 215092 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that's one way to write proofs isn't it? < 1322646515 227183 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: yes, but it's so vague it would apply to the work of most crackpots. < 1322646532 628814 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't really describe proof by contradiction or induction very well. < 1322646573 272376 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet there are proof techniques I've never even /heard/ of!! < 1322646584 658394 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof by crackpots < 1322646601 444131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm is map f $ fix (\xs -> x : map g xs) ==> fix (\xs -> f x : map g xs) valid < 1322646603 475190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1322646620 580336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1322646631 856541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not very good at proofs in general but I could prove some things by myself, including Pythagorean theorem, and that the sequence of repeated run length encoding starting with 1 (1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, etc) has only 1,2,3 and has no "333" in it < 1322646633 55924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f $ fix (\xs -> x : map g xs) ==> fix (\xs -> f x : map (f . g) xs) < 1322646634 772178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is, though, I think < 1322646639 463897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(validate me oerjan? is this correct) < 1322646656 329472 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a cold, i say. < 1322646660 832380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map f (fix (\xs -> x : map g xs)) :: [Expr] < 1322646661 11287 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that doesn't look right to me. < 1322646661 598581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [f x,f (g x),f (g (g x)),f (g (g (g x))),f (g (g (g (g x)))),f (g (g (g (g ... < 1322646670 537185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> f x : map (f . g) xs) :: [Expr] < 1322646671 376399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322646671 555725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ... < 1322646680 74545 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wait < 1322646680 942616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> f x : map (\x -> f (g x)) xs) :: [Expr] < 1322646681 189513 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322646681 628427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `t' in the constraints: < 1322646681 812557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show t' < 1322646681 991551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322646684 285372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! < 1322646689 986569 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks right to me. < 1322646692 999719 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misreaed. < 1322646697 799526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: shut up and let me get lambdabot to take it :) < 1322646710 721341 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix $ ([0,1]++) . map succ . concatMap ((:) <$> length <*> pure.head). group < 1322646711 864408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is _not_ valid actually. < 1322646712 389098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,2,1,2,2,2,3,2,2,4,3,2,4,3,3,2,5,2,4,2,3,2,5,3,4,2,3,2,6,2,3,2,5,2,3,2,... < 1322646719 760524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (\xs -> f x : map (\x -> f (g x)) xs) :: [Expr] < 1322646720 578255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `t' in the constraints: < 1322646720 820075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Show t' arising from a use of `f' at :1:29-35 < 1322646720 998860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr t' < 1322646720 998939 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322646721 331940 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322646722 580941 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322646723 802291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (\xs -> f x : map (\x -> f (g x)) xs) < 1322646724 688262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a t. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a, SimpleReflect.FromExpr (a -> t), SimpleReflect.FromExpr (t -> a)) => [a] < 1322646724 873290 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not. < 1322646730 815980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1322646789 56845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let m = [1,2,3,4] in fix (\xs -> m : map (drop 1) xs) < 1322646789 881228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646793 95088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equatorial coordinates have right ascension and declination, or hour angle and declination, but is it sense to have local declination too? < 1322646798 321290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> inits [1,2,3,4] < 1322646799 138522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[1],[1,2],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,4]] < 1322646803 530768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tails [1,2,3,4] < 1322646804 432246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[]] < 1322646807 145687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat [] < 1322646808 874979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646825 910577 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with map f on the outside f only gets applied once to each element < 1322646829 313689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I nkow < 1322646830 313104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1322646836 260289 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the inside it gets applied... um, a lot. < 1322646839 584160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh < 1322646840 562008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hh < 1322646876 753742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (take 1) (tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat []) < 1322646878 197553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[2],[3],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646894 365231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map pure [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat [] < 1322646895 995918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[2],[3],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646907 596210 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . map $ (take 1) (tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat []) < 1322646908 654831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a1] -> a' < 1322646908 833920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a]' < 1322646918 296450 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . map (take 1) $ (tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat []) < 1322646922 430244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322646937 793673 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone submit a bug report for me. < 1322646955 849124 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :titled "halting problem not solved" < 1322646963 802087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ZipList . concat . takeWhile (not . null) $ map (:[]) (getZipList m) < 1322646972 90167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like it's working < 1322646974 413152 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is solved < 1322646980 371494 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :See NonTerminationException < 1322646993 296149 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (oerjan is sceptical that there are any Haskell ADTs that can be made applicative functors that can't be made monads (with the two instances agreeing)) < 1322646996 723291 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say that. < 1322647001 840523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i clarified later, but ok < 1322647052 999022 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm, I've run out of fractals. perhaps I need a new updoot theme? < 1322647062 95297 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: CANTFIX < 1322647074 156671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: behold the most handwavey thing _ever_ written: http://sprunge.us/hfGR < 1322647082 329015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least my steps are trivial enough to justify, I'm just too lazy to < 1322647096 260172 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a type of function, that if you have this function and pure and <*> then you can make join. Is there such a thing? < 1322647103 73785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: join < 1322647107 352542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called join. < 1322647136 486855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, but it isn't what I meant < 1322647166 116041 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pick a theme for me < 1322647208 494777 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I'll try to find more fractals I guess. < 1322647212 583793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pure m is what i call a "rectangular" element, so zjoin really cannot break on it - it essentially doesn't go outside the _Applicative_ part. < 1322647221 364650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1322647254 896807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the join . fmap return one is going well: ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map repeat $ getZipList m < 1322647272 96155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, on a rectangular element, join is determined entirely by the Applicative functions. < 1322647280 911272 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upoundary of the tame deetdragon < 1322647284 125383 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that one is also rectangular. < 1322647304 11923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I am sure that zjoin works fine in the theory you have used to create it :P < 1322647313 60135 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322647335 928893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) $ map repeat [a,b,c] < 1322647337 623142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a... < 1322647339 473882 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for rectangular elements, the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) part does nothing. < 1322647342 136273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) $ map repeat [a,b,c] < 1322647343 802857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b... < 1322647347 972771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1322647386 320676 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322647391 769128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (map repeat [a,b,c,d]) < 1322647392 664533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f [a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,... < 1322647400 878257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (map pure [a,b,c,d]) < 1322647401 715614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f SimpleReflect.Expr)) < 1322647401 901017 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a us... < 1322647403 167174 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322647407 20220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (map (:[]) [a,b,c,d]) < 1322647407 984623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f [a] (f [b] (f [c] (f [d] z))) < 1322647412 380418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not immensely surprising :P < 1322647445 443626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1322647451 166479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z . map g = foldr (f . g) z < 1322647452 527415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll help < 1322647470 287168 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha broccoli has a measure Hausdorff dimension of 2.66 < 1322647471 853927 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1322647481 86359 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*measured < 1322647579 952249 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a measure dimension, sort of. < 1322647605 793814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the dimension of sets that may have nontrivial hausdorff measure of that degree < 1322647620 58545 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(degree may not be actual term) < 1322647671 25238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: join . fmap return = id proved < 1322647677 940971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . join = join . fmap join -- this seems like the hard one < 1322647695 96029 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oerjan: Norway is more Hausdorffy than Great Britain. Fight. < 1322647748 68609 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently dimension is the term used) < 1322647766 339187 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1322647771 134540 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: why should i fight, it's obviously true < 1322647812 51056 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah that's the one where you have to test non-"rectangular" sets, so the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) part becomes important < 1322647821 963645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . getZipList $ m < 1322647822 143389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList . join) $ getZipList m < 1322647826 114799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have to prove these two lines equal < 1322647827 575979 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because you guys should take mathematics /personally/ < 1322647828 585627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fml :P < 1322647836 86171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322647844 116431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . getZipList $ m < 1322647847 214150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . map join $ getZipList m < 1322647859 85818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually < 1322647860 650717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need to prove < 1322647861 245264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList < 1322647862 820846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := map join < 1322647864 761052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1322647873 654660 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, maybe elliott secretly thinks having a lower Hausdorff dimensions is better for a high quality nation. < 1322647898 214423 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and on ZipLists "rectangular" elements obviously are what you intuitively call rectangles, it's just that it applies more generally to any attempt to extend Applicatives to Monads, i believe. < 1322647941 615083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what is it you actually believe about Applicative then < 1322647962 707734 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION believes Applicative created the world and made it flat. < 1322647984 7399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/XfUi; too lazy to do the last proof for now < 1322647986 131510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka < 1322647989 969653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one involving any kind of thought at all < 1322648011 251700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you checked whether this monad's ap and liftM agree? < 1322648084 828324 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be rather astounding, since they don't have the same type ;P < 1322648154 748194 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: well lower hausdorff dimension probably gives easier industrial packaging. < 1322648160 271219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: har har har < 1322648163 946282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the Applicative instance I mean of course < 1322648223 666849 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Peano curve packs pretty well < 1322648223 892854 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the zjoin is _designed_ to be correct on rectangular elements automatically, and all elements that are actually joined when constructing ap and liftM stuff are rectangular. < 1322648298 975668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i meant tested empirically :P < 1322648306 961868 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not :P < 1322648388 402157 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (\x -> fmap (f x) m) n is the general form of a rectangular element in an arbitrary Functor. < 1322648503 153875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't suppose you know how to get backtraces for individual threads in gdb after they all exit < 1322648503 681982 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :empiricism in math? zah1 < 1322648505 567055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying join to that should give liftM2 f n m, so it's determined by the Applicative part. < 1322648520 524348 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, printf all the way < 1322648535 155165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :( < 1322648624 662528 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, you might want to prove zjoin (fmap (\x -> fmap (f x) m) n) = liftA2f n m as a lemma to use. < 1322648634 8552 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*liftA2 f n m < 1322648642 252864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. when i get back to it :P < 1322648681 761566 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense it is the initial definition of zjoin, which is then extended in some hopefully consistent way to all elements. < 1322648725 681610 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from it should follow that everything Applicative behaves correctly with it. < 1322648850 553373 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the first and second monad laws. it's just the third one which can still break. < 1322648853 661205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair. < 1322648981 277018 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322649086 982447 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw my intuitive but maybe not sufficiently checked reason for why the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) adjustment should fix the join . join == join . fmap join third law formulation is that it forces the necessary _cubic_ parts of the m (m (m x)) element to exist. < 1322649094 987177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322649103 458560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should publish this >:) < 1322649110 894082 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa < 1322649150 533546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional Pearl: Categorical Gardening: Applicative Functors to Monads with Shears and Cubes < 1322649217 943734 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, an element is included in join (join m) iff its entire ancestor "cube" is included, which should be the same as the requirement for an element in join (fmap join m) to be included. < 1322649277 688426 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gregor has a paper called "The Eval that Men Do" < 1322649284 972833 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me cringe < 1322649287 989415 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime I read it. < 1322649316 562845 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "cube" being the elements that are above and to the left of it in any of the containing sublists, seen as a 3-dimensional grid) < 1322649360 209236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: we named that < 1322649388 722165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that "shear" was a bit of a joke, it just looks like a geometric shear transformation in how it moves list elements. < 1322649424 113637 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who's "we"? < 1322649456 628573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: #esoteric < 1322649475 621530 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Gregor has a paper called "The Eval that Men Do" <-- i recall that, i vaguely think he asked us for more eval suggestions :P < 1322649597 282031 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Root of All Eval is an obvious one. < 1322649611 367520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, we covered all the bases. < 1322649616 326751 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it was m... right < 1322649628 842910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god this paper is amazing. < 1322649629 822932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your eval bases are belong to us < 1322649645 667565 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Eval that Men Do" is better because it's still a horrible pun while also being relevant to the paper. < 1322649663 478861 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas "The Root of All Eval" is less relevant < 1322649669 111252 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1322649669 466020 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're talking about like.... trees or something. < 1322650252 436198 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood < 1322650327 662476 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1322650889 680472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Encapsulate world queue into an abstract interface" < 1322650896 83092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta think of a way to make this commit subject less terrible < 1322651137 132656 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Inact the principle of information hiding on world queue by means of implementing an abstract protocol." < 1322651145 519425 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^/"/ < 1322651147 394151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322651951 504542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322652480 981354 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322652986 611217 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322653202 103156 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322653254 412659 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322655339 331239 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322655339 510244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322656348 220537 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322656500 275580 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656500 457431 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322656500 457584 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656644 340701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322656662 414117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656766 226239 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656895 399039 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322657003 327202 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322657607 104402 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322658048 781054 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you could try dumbing it down < 1322658115 881984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I maed an abstract interface out of teh world queue." < 1322658300 467453 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322658972 684302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322659228 783457 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322660208 508195 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322660267 269208 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322660741 767533 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 + 2 < 1322660742 889038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322660844 912157 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tau < 1322660845 949165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `tau' < 1322660926 620580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0/0) == (0/0) < 1322660927 654848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322661144 767661 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's time < 1322661148 667830 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two monitors once again. < 1322662567 178332 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322662609 405489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322662697 600664 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hi < 1322662703 954782 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322663159 945031 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Coke and coffee mixed together is good < 1322663384 595446 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi :: Expr < 1322663385 872824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : pi < 1322663390 249737 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin pi < 1322663391 588549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.0 < 1322663397 843056 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322663399 9399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos pi < 1322663442 677838 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: using Expr with deriv is actually very cool. < 1322663449 906294 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, when it works :P < 1322663460 637644 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what breaks, in particular? < 1322663520 43662 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, sorry. < 1322663568 855069 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: noooooo, how could you. < 1322663593 803677 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have abstracted you from "human being" to "limitless and impatient well of information" < 1322663605 638614 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're breaking my encapsulation! < 1322663807 454763 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> a * sin a * ln a * a^2 + 1) (x :: Expr) < 1322663808 504674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `ln' < 1322663812 699348 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> a * sin a * log a * a^2 + 1) (x :: Expr) < 1322663814 216370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((1 * sin x + x * (1 * cos x)) * log x + x * sin x * (1 * recip x)) * (x * ... < 1322663862 362245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why must it have 1 * everywhere? < 1322663866 699775 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a waste! < 1322663902 661500 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Expr could special case 1 so that it's omitted, however, I think it's left in for demonstration of function implementations. < 1322663936 877149 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to have different Expr "styles", one that attempts to reduce expressions and one that's verbatim < 1322664047 285010 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, also < 1322664083 407683 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably also extend Expr to generate ASTs? < 1322664243 200580 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be < 1322664243 414263 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got < 1322664245 340380 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :minix." < 1322664259 759565 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Linux Torvalds, 1991 < 1322664265 964653 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322664267 558184 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes Linux < 1322664270 360265 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to correct it. < 1322664383 712565 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess Expr could special case 1 so that it's omitted, however, I think it's left in for demonstration of function implementations. < 1322664389 598612 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664390 682131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * (-1.0) < 1322664395 555893 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322664404 244605 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exprValue $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664404 820181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `exprValue' < 1322664407 341145 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1322664438 335014 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reduce < 1322664439 648105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr -> Expr < 1322664442 524277 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Expr -> a < 1322664443 95369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Expr < 1322664443 574238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1322664443 761385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1322664447 143201 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1322664449 793836 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid hoogle < 1322664450 200293 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> intExpr $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664451 17434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `intExpr' < 1322664453 329425 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> doubleExpr $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664454 151965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `doubleExpr' < 1322664456 18074 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1322664489 793359 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, does Num make any assumptions about whether or not it's a field? < 1322664511 71333 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromIntegral < 1322664512 100058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1322664524 668201 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, is it required that fromIntegral 1 * x == x ? < 1322664568 121843 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num has no laws < 1322664573 709331 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1322664583 919282 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote without laws < 1322664584 100253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes for this person. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1322664587 939664 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott laws < 1322664588 126192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1322664590 686853 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott_ laws < 1322664591 43303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes for this person. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1322664593 141777 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott type < 1322664593 328438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: a typeclass is nothing without semantics < 1322664595 484380 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote fuck < 1322664595 748190 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1322664596 76609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :medfly says: THIS IS SPARTA! go fuck yourself < 1322664600 441669 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misremrembered myself'e'. :'( < 1322664616 112985 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Google just understood "ahaskel wekly naws". < 1322664649 377578 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it does. < 1322664660 377189 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S LIKE THEY DO SOME KIND OF LEVENWEEJRIJSJW DISTANCE < 1322664669 50175 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=LEVENWEEJRIJSJW+DISTANCE < 1322664681 886252 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas < 1322664704 177086 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEVENstEW DISTANCE < 1322664705 93949 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1322664722 302549 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leven stew < 1322664761 206942 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help sleep deprivation and weird blood pressure drops. < 1322664986 347846 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: help me find ways to break deriv < 1322665001 695124 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t logBase < 1322665002 958917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a -> a < 1322665092 981753 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how is differentiation implemented in mathematica? < 1322665101 924506 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolically and badly < 1322665117 626267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322665129 140650 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum . isInfinity $ x) 3 < 1322665130 343303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `isInfinity' < 1322665139 683156 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum . isNegativeZero $ x) 3 < 1322665140 891681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322665141 78918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322665150 533098 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum . x == 2) 3 < 1322665151 906568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322665152 86875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322665152 993359 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322665158 777441 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum (x == 2)) 3 < 1322665159 927627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322665160 113664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322665162 762275 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orjeiojwrrijweroijhweroihwetoihwer < 1322665166 568212 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1322665167 702761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1322665168 884693 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322665185 485665 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromIntegral (fromEnum (x == 2))) 3 < 1322665186 723164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322667718 177697 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: PUNPUNPUN < 1322667718 399173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322667866 969107 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FUNFUNFUN < 1322667882 402083 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `mappend` 2 < 1322667883 565178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322667883 750645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Monoid.Monoid a' < 1322667883 750813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1322667899 676748 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Add < 1322667900 903309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Add' < 1322667938 759491 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Sum 1 `mappend` Sum 2 < 1322667939 931911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum {getSum = 3} < 1322667946 101887 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing. < 1322668044 356808 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322668062 970434 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const (Sum 3) `mappend` const (Sum 4) $ 6 < 1322668064 116538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum {getSum = 7} < 1322668068 755715 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322668126 62898 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail `mappend` (++"dongs") $ " lol" < 1322668128 1400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "lol loldongs" < 1322668214 355463 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I feel the number of instances you can make with a -> b is just out of hand. < 1322668238 87666 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time, however < 1322668241 244372 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that. < 1322668811 965877 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322669133 694186 :kallisti!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322669133 961175 :kallisti!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322669134 148367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322669534 234717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322669589 564504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I completed Braid, anyway (any%; 100%ing it takes years without spoilers, apparently, and the game disguises the fact that there is a better ending than the obvious one) < 1322670019 40860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently you have to wait on one level for like two hours or some other dumb shit like that < 1322670072 238430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322670079 724740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :around an hour and a half < 1322670090 380842 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did he think that was a good idea < 1322670194 526965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the mere existence of the stars is hidden < 1322670198 375442 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, does anyone know a better way of deleting a function definition in vim than d/^}/? < 1322670212 387981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and putting things behind very long waits is a good way to hide them < 1322670217 129066 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddd% works, but is gross < 1322670224 68621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's how most of the instances of Totaka's Song are hidden, for instance) < 1322670260 745722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, d]} might do it < 1322670272 504565 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! d} < 1322670277 67262 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1322670400 926034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other issue with Braid is that you don't get to hear the music much < 1322670409 594547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as half the time it's playing backwards or at a crazy speed or whatever < 1322670479 503584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fun thing I just noticed by accident: the MediaWiki keyboard shortcut for "delete" (alt-shift-d) means "undelete" on a nonexistent page < 1322670570 658010 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . m Excela‎; 12:24 . . (+1,570) . . Oerjan (Talk | contribs) (Fnord) < 1322670570 881359 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Excela‎; 10:35 . . (-1,570) . . Theodorex1Jf (Talk | contribs) < 1322670575 443730 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: _please_ protect Excela already... < 1322670582 473735 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322670587 206430 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said they moved to another page if they did that < 1322670589 14980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322670592 610689 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have we had google translate bots before? < 1322670597 843711 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall any but I may be wrong < 1322670606 6051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1322670614 259560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just protect every page except [[Snack]] for a few days < 1322670617 832546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may be the same framework finding anew way to get around filters < 1322670619 449622 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we don't have to bother reverting < 1322670634 163736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, protecting an entire namespace needs dev powers < 1322670643 302959 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant manually :) < 1322670644 787331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a huge amount of very very spammy protection by hand < 1322670663 142842 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, now I want to not revert the spam for long enough to see if the bots will ever re-mangle a mangled page < 1322670681 167293 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if left to their own devices they'll turn any page into completely unintelligible mush < 1322670686 539694 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/maybe if/maybe/ < 1322670791 924294 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322670881 682995 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322671088 361913 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322671107 510806 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1322671274 275205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : as half the time it's playing backwards or at a crazy speed or whatever <-- that annoyed me too < 1322671285 275035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how did you end up playing Braid? < 1322671317 957680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: apparently you have to wait on one level for like two hours or some other dumb shit like that <-- just let it run in the background while you eat lunch < 1322671348 251687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I watched a speedrun, and it inspired me to play the game < 1322671352 289856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322671359 47862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it already, but it had a dependency on nvidia-something so I thought it wouldn't work < 1322671362 904796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322671366 213344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I installed the nvidia package anyway and it did work < 1322671374 984272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322671384 792708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I played it on ati/amd so yeah < 1322671412 754174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Intel graphics; I deliberately aim for laptops which have them < 1322671423 44413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works better on Linux than the alternatives, typically < 1322671429 113012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hybrid graphics is a nice alternative there < 1322671436 450256 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Better modulo their being terrible < 1322671442 799560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good drivers only get you so far :P < 1322671443 685565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use intel unless you want good 3D performance < 1322671444 993137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they're good /enough/ < 1322671447 428557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what I want to do < 1322671462 292025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's important for me are good drivers and good enough 3D performance < 1322671465 804928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Intel hits both requirements < 1322671490 531264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have very low 3D expectations then < 1322671554 198789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good enough to play Neverwinter Nights < 1322671560 762774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which admittedly is a pretty old game < 1322671572 748194 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322671606 322765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come on, I had some third-party stuff fail on intel graphics in NWN due to texture compression formats that weren't supported < 1322671616 916813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't really drag the graphical quality settings to max < 1322671630 263331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous for such an old game. < 1322671655 33455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that isn't intel graphics have been able to run nwn on max graphical settings for several years < 1322671677 952865 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so OSX is estimated at 86,000,000 lines of code.. windows xp at 45,000,000 lines of code.. do you think a haskell OS would end up down at 1,000,000? < 1322671747 929291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x is larger than windows xp? < 1322671748 861267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322671751 684370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version of os x < 1322671763 63745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said estimated anyway < 1322671766 842169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322671769 888850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.4 < 1322671786 775728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki reference says < 1322671790 654705 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jobs, Steve (August 2006). "Live from WWDC 2006: Steve Jobs Keynote". Retrieved 2007-02-16. "86 million lines of source code that was ported to run on an entirely new architecture with zero hiccups."" < 1322671960 252754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows XP, released in 2001, has 35 million lines of code < 1322671977 914924 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. Windows XP was compiled of 45 million lines of code. < 1322671996 37021 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats 10 million lines of code between friends < 1322672115 411594 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several thousand engineers have labored to build and test Windows Vista, a sprawling, complex software construction project with 50 million lines of code, or more than 40 percent larger than Windows XP. < 1322672143 571438 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly theres a bit of bullshitting going on somewhere < 1322672219 651668 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new york times says "35 million lines of code." < 1322672230 664087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki sourcing the windows facebook page says 45 < 1322672253 51984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems these numbers are fairly meaningless < 1322672284 596494 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeff atwood says 40 million < 1322672310 962206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently quoting wikipedia < 1322673127 682355 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322673465 564342 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322673914 51751 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322673945 689395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2008 Linux had approx. 6 million lines of actual code. < 1322673956 212421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 10 million includes whitespace and comments. < 1322674012 44929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :note this is just the kernel itself. < 1322674176 73602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9793 Torvalds, an asteroid named after Linus Torvalds < 1322674176 666774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9882 Stallman, an asteroid named after Richard Matthew Stallman, American hacker, founder of the free software movement and the GNU project < 1322674179 72326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9965 GNU, an asteroid named after the GNU project < 1322674193 903712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9885 Linux is an asteroid discovered on October 12, 1994 by Spacewatch. The asteroid is named after the Linux operating system kernel < 1322674218 914448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love asteroid names. < 1322674319 715353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow there are 18,269 Main Belt asteroid articles. < 1322674407 189505 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably mostly autogenerated < 1322674418 636791 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: 1994? < 1322674426 397066 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after Linux only 3 years after it began... < 1322674440 307685 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discovered < 1322674446 423437 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Named, possibly later < 1322674454 864347 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322674468 343485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not, but I think that's possible < 1322674504 220443 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Linux would have been fairly popular in that kind of environment by 1994 < 1322674561 567748 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :14070060 total lines in Linux 3.1.1, according to ohcount; 10011948 excluding comments and whitespace < 1322674590 953257 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How much excluding drivers? < 1322674600 808911 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This includes xml, xslt, scheme, and other languages) < 1322674611 925933 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet a lot of that is documentation < 1322674620 641610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not *that* much though :P < 1322674636 427749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of January 4, 2011, using current LOC and wage numbers with David A. Wheeler's calculations it would cost approximately 3 billion USD (about 2.2 billion EUR) to redevelop the Linux kernel. < 1322674644 253552 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want just the C and assembler files, 13233055+459402 and 9396007+362268 < 1322674658 371366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: David A. Wheeler's calculations = sloccount's bullshit estimates :P < 1322674670 421036 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohloh and sloccount and all these things always estimate like a million times what things would actually cost to develop < 1322674673 917789 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also 247515+149638 of "cpp", which I guess is headers < 1322674681 694033 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they claimed cfunge would cost like $80k or something < 1322674700 718971 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm more interested in how much of that is driver code < 1322674719 45314 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm running your not-drivers calculation, it'll take a while < 1322674721 283905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hey programmers are expensive. and lazy. < 1322674727 21891 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding a driver doesn't really increase the overall complexity of a system, so in some sense drivers are free from the perspective of the rest of the system < 1322674740 756183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas adding code within the core system does increase complexity < 1322674933 701417 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: http://sprunge.us/TXcC < 1322674970 236466 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, so only 56% of Linux is drivers < 1322674981 899642 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an awfully big core < 1322675051 587398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so assuming an average yearly salary of $63k (current average in the US), they're saying it would take.... < 1322675084 833301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (63/80)*12 < 1322675086 40223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.45 < 1322675095 781188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one person 9.45 months to code cfunge? < 1322675130 181645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted they probably used a different estimation technique) < 1322675139 874134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least a different average salary) < 1322675163 372223 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I believe the method is literally "take statistic for lines/day a programmer writes, scale by salary" < 1322675186 393833 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.openjdk.java.net/hsx/hotspot-rt/hotspot/rev/763f01599ff4 Ha ha ha oh boy < 1322675219 319672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well that's kind of reasonable I guess. < 1322675330 192664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it's non-whitespace lines. < 1322675344 206810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1322675353 665975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I guess those kind of count too? comments do anyway < 1322675369 828515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that represents documentation effort. < 1322675625 971588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course 5 years from now that will be different, but 5 years from now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5." < 1322675632 500485 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linus v. tanenbaum is so fun < 1322675645 841583 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like they're pretending to be oblivious people in 1992 < 1322675649 432127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1322675693 809215 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322675693 988628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is like he's pretending to be an oblivious person in 2011 < 1322675759 393063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. < 1322675766 518795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on that probably horrible estimate. < 1322675784 222581 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322675786 683660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322675822 139153 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322675872 648553 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: produce a funge98 interpreter through genetically engineering a baby < 1322675919 386468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hey < 1322675919 967489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be horrible if compilers attempted to detect typos and simply corrected them under the hood... < 1322675938 603945 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of a compiler that did that < 1322675945 352449 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was awful < 1322675971 838399 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. <-- it takes 2 people to create a baby < 1322675974 252572 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl supposedly resolves ambiguities automatically < 1322675988 748806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just saw an interesting way to upload a *.patch to a mediawiki installation that didn't accept that type: "File:Makefile.patch.png" < 1322676011 848799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do people ever try that sort of stuff on wikipedia? < 1322676013 75104 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just write a piet program that performs the patch < 1322676022 239489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody can delete that for not being a valid image < 1322676023 134294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1322676028 824626 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. < 1322676034 19546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it is on the defcon dev wiki < 1322676037 532370 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :741) interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. < 1322676047 65542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people attempted it occasionally; on Wikipeida such files can be speedied < 1322676049 789078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wikipedia < 1322676050 915339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322676056 554612 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322676093 765087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you know you get dev access to uplink/darwinia/defcon/multiwinia with the humble bundle now < 1322676096 80562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is great < 1322676111 978835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I completely missed getting an email about it and it being near the top of /r/programming. < 1322676116 895725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think normally they sell that for a higher price < 1322676123 26528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, what I usually do is ignore my email and not read reddit, because hey, Vorpal will let me know. < 1322676126 110195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah good thing I told you then :P < 1322676136 278707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy australian mailman mailing list reminders day! < 1322676142 312672 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DEFCON and Multiwinia source are new, I believe. < 1322676147 749307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm really < 1322676149 605480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1322676153 422070 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just DEFCON. < 1322676155 92676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's even on Slashdot < 1322676157 721692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: anyway my statement was correct then. I forgot the question mark above < 1322676157 901753 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the most - wonderful tiiiiime of the year! < 1322676167 320759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes you knew it. Which was all I stated :P < 1322676173 314997 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: happy ammlr day! < 1322676180 115045 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, abbreviation ruins it < 1322676189 423216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you have to write it out < 1322676194 893265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which. Tomorrow is my birthday < 1322676205 492086 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: happy australian mailman mailing list reminders day, then < 1322676219 949812 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sorry, I only wish people happies on australian mailman mailing list reminders day. < 1322676222 811428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how old will that make you? < 1322676227 530888 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day we worship the ancient sumerian god Amm Lr < 1322676232 262261 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try getting a better birthday < 1322676245 358638 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, I just noticed how many players blognomic has now < 1322676246 840225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: err, I'm old enough to not think much about my age. Lets see... *gets calculator* < 1322676263 935217 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is old as dirt < 1322676264 393680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1322676264 595509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's going back to normal < 1322676279 599439 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you had a birthday recently, i kinda lose track < 1322676284 361688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but seriously, you stop thinking about exact age once you get past 20 or so. < 1322676288 252270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm older than Vorpal? < 1322676296 233688 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you are < 1322676297 788856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aren't you like 24? < 1322676300 278302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322676314 878037 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ais523 not remember when Vorpal was 18 < 1322676317 102051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway of course, I thought it was well established < 1322676319 490596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 19 < 1322676328 992238 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if by "recently" you mean in the last 6 months, then yes. < 1322676332 913305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: err I was in this channel before I turned 18 I'm pretty sure < 1322676343 348520 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1322676346 592875 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: happy belated australian mailman mailing list reminders day! < 1322676349 753343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes. < 1322676353 788801 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2008 < 1322676359 348531 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only until you start reaching round numbers again :P < 1322676367 116461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322676372 87936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :/ < 1322676375 945049 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, 2007 < 1322676381 973893 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2007-10-30 < 1322676387 636439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so 17 then < 1322676391 318052 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the day I made my worst mistake < 1322676395 663914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322676395 871876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how old were you when you came here? < 1322676406 232430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 or 12 iirc? < 1322676408 633123 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: umm, 11 or 12 < 1322676410 662588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly < 1322676432 665108 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was 11 or 12, that was about when I started in the Murderous Maths forum < 1322676433 988460 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1322676440 875301 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I have since sadly abandoned < 1322676485 979387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well it's good you left before you were murdered < 1322676487 283828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid=> select * from irc.logs_na where nick = 'elliott' order by serial ASC limit 1; < 1322676487 468440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body < 1322676487 468549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------+---------------------+---------+--------+--------------------------------------------+------+------ < 1322676487 468594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 208001 | 2006-12-29 21:42:41 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | < 1322676492 95208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can count it from that < 1322676497 896337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I was 12 < 1322676509 421709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 16th of October 2007 < 1322676509 603254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, normalised nick, that is why it says elliott) < 1322676512 395054 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that one doesn't count, i joined, was too intimidated to say anything, then left < 1322676517 696693 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next time i joined was in 2007 < 1322676524 343021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wait is it normalised or normalized in UK English? < 1322676535 481240 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: depends on dialect < 1322676538 210135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends whether en-gb or en-gb-OED < 1322676539 558026 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED uses -zed < 1322676553 712474 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *en-GB, *en-GB-oed < 1322676554 623369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 208001 | 2006-12-29 21:42:41 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | < 1322676554 809974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 208002 | 2006-12-29 21:43:09 | elliott | | | 4 | < 1322676554 810158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 271393 | 2007-05-14 17:48:38 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-54457988.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | < 1322676562 645307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: too intimidated by what? < 1322676565 893065 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined the UMMF 17 days before my 13th birthday < 1322676570 534547 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lots of people and silence!!!! < 1322676574 544394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heh < 1322676585 35827 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have all been nasty. I don't talk until I'm sure I'm the nastiest one present < 1322676596 355317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1322676618 985421 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 11 then, assuming i can do arithmetic < 1322676622 577662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait OED isn't the default for en-gb? sacrilege! < 1322676623 121450 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm not sure of < 1322676630 911004 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995-08 --> 2006-12 < 1322676636 564027 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or --> 2007-05, the same either way < 1322676655 972898 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: -zed is the only common case where -oed disagrees from common british english usage iirc < 1322676663 966743 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1322676686 222305 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and they list -ise too < 1322676689 663143 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as the preferred spelling < 1322676696 370263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The use of -ize instead of -ise does not affect the spelling of words ending in -yse, such as analyse, paralyse and catalyse" < 1322676698 323662 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1322676731 271523 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an excellent analyzis < 1322676852 73577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, looks like OED has a few other idiosyncrasies too, like preferring "co-operate" < 1322676869 992476 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coöperäte < 1322676873 569820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: confusing matters further, it seems like "cooperate" is what appears in their "consumer" dictionaries < 1322676882 579802 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the unusable-as-a-dictionary OED text itself :P < 1322676884 207309 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to English cooperate, or Esoterian coperate. < 1322676911 643472 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read as "Estonian". < 1322676912 790146 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or volapük köüperät < 1322676923 495658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was confusing, 'cuz they do use os and diaereses a lot. < 1322676924 808163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: possibly not actual volapük) < 1322676957 662859 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban c'ou,. zrxrope < 1322676980 616138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'ou,. tvtrope < 1322676989 568308 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-247-194.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322677019 913186 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cooperate?view=uk or is it..... < 1322677026 470723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care enough to try and dig deeper < 1322677042 574185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coöperate. < 1322677048 364155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cöpærüt < 1322677055 503871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cooperate#Alternative_forms < 1322677067 444955 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty < 1322677067 759430 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-173-239.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322677074 406782 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As opposed to English cooperate, or Esoterian coöperate. < 1322677085 243010 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway I will stop being annoyed by your diaeresing if you apply it properly. < 1322677087 530654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, of course. < 1322677098 148972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, excuse me how else do you apply it. < 1322677103 704773 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I.e., to all diaereses, not just diaereses on adjacent vowels. < 1322677115 534883 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once talked like that for an /entire minute/; I'm sure you can manage. < 1322677122 560506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes fine I will do it. < 1322677122 895192 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1322677126 980174 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/adjacent vowels/repeated vowels/ < 1322677199 444254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is quite easy. < 1322677215 440331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :('ea' isn't a diaeresis.) < 1322677220 833653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor is that one.) < 1322677237 333584 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Talk about poetry. < 1322677246 675594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poëtry. < 1322677274 413949 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also shouldn't it be di(ae with " on top)resis because of the i, or am I wrong. < 1322677283 702191 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In phonology, hiatus (English: /haɪˈeɪtəs/; Latin: [hɪˈaːtʊs] "gaping")[1] or diaeresis (/daɪˈɛrɨsɨs/ or /daɪˈɪərɨsɨs/,[2] from Ancient Greek διαίρεσις diaíresis "division")[3] refers to two vowel sounds occurring in adjacent syllables, with no intervening consonant. When two adjacent vowel sounds occur in the same syllable, the result is instead described as a diphthong. < 1322677283 881244 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The English words hiatus and diaeresis themselves contain a hiatus between the first and second syllables. < 1322677319 929049 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need "diæ̈resis". < 1322677333 987715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far does this rabbit hole go? < 1322677351 819144 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO FAR. < 1322677357 670216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have gone for potry < 1322677368 592300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Will you cooperate on your hiatus to produce poetry with diaereses? < 1322677370 956052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is because you are an idiöt. < 1322677393 831515 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:35: ais523: _please_ protect Excela already... < 1322677394 13328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:42: oh wait < 1322677394 13520 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:47: you said they moved to another page if they did that < 1322677411 12617 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is some way to protect the page so the bots don't actually realize it is protected < 1322677413 452646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is excela a brainfuck derivative < 1322677421 30344 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ghostprotecting? < 1322677434 783578 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess < 1322677441 485443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghostecting. < 1322677447 174070 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ("ghostbanning" is a common term for the forum equivalent of that) < 1322677453 588577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only the ghostbanned user can see their own posts) < 1322677468 115572 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well it sounds like what reddit does with voting < 1322677468 942355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require an extension that probably doesn't even _exist_ yet though, so good luck with that :P < 1322677477 443490 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1322677493 706231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, diȧėreses (look, I don't have a compose binding for it) are remarkably uncommon. < 1322677511 795214 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: æ̈ here you go. < 1322677524 86771 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322677526 421821 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322677527 849842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, better, get me a decent .XCompose. < 1322677538 205342 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think if you get an ae, and then do what you do for a diaeresis and then press space, it'll work. < 1322677567 939025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1322677592 924311 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shruggot* < 1322677593 360256 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's rather ridiculous with a page that has a plethora of recent edits but hasn't really been changed since 2006 :P < 1322677596 302575 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew of a decent .XCompose. < 1322677608 601863 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we should start improving it to confuse the spambots < 1322677612 676068 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322677639 398574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die, reses! < 1322677649 233514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliött_, I distinctly recall someöne linking me to one on reddit, but I didn't keep track of it. < 1322677724 137710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.introversion.co.uk/introversion/viewtopic.php?t=3003 < 1322677729 582073 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snigger* < 1322677819 602792 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hehehehehe < 1322677821 238229 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headclot < 1322677846 648956 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who said I was joking - I bought the Humble Introversion bundle and I was quite impressed at what I saw." < 1322677852 77072 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9882 Stallman, an asteroid named after Richard Matthew Stallman, American hacker, founder of the free software movement and the GNU project < 1322677853 740677 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email: Technology_rocks@hotmail.com < 1322677862 163385 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that ever gets close to earth, we're fucked < 1322677912 316277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We do not exist on the internet yet at least. :/" < 1322677914 140073 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humble INTP bundle < 1322677915 93628 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheheheehehehehehehe < 1322677962 227932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i haven't seen myers-briggs mentioned much in a while < 1322678763 671796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322678878 161005 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where? < 1322678924 255363 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um, i didn't mean to imply that i'd seen it, i just thought of the fact i hadn't after making that pun < 1322678952 758906 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322678974 5887 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 QUIT :Quit: restart < 1322679160 547435 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boredom -> Special:Random -> Kit Osbourne -> Combat Zone Wrestling -> Philadelphia -> Gentrification -> Property tax -> Mill (currency) -> Latin -> Ancient Greek which we've hit before < 1322679255 744579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we got a strong acceptance to STACS 2012! < 1322679256 69021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322679285 772999 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322679298 982541 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: about that message, didn't i then prove the theorem? < 1322679318 386400 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient Greek still leads roundabout to Greek language :P < 1322679342 107318 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, other reviewers may or may not have given us equally great reviews. < 1322679368 384498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of them may or may not have pointed out a full page listing of typos and thinkos < 1322679389 15382 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you prove a lil' theorem oerjan needs < 1322679410 642279 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1322679443 513233 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this was one of the really long ones, still passing through Human (after Ngevd's very temporary cycle i feel like rechecking where this one goes; no change so far i think) < 1322679464 194829 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh it's just a simple one, proving the equivalence of two really simple functions < 1322679466 20690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that right oerjan < 1322679473 257209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we ever come to a conclusion on differentiation chains? < 1322679480 36841 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's just not smart enough to do it you see < 1322679480 857611 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah oerjan solved it < 1322679492 652930 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer was? < 1322679498 608609 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: answer to what < 1322679502 691574 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at e^(ax) < 1322679511 56559 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: are you talking about the ZipList stuff? i think it's pretty clear in principle. < 1322679521 699982 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and choose a fittingly < 1322679529 686922 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oerjan: did you get uniqueness from that? < 1322679552 301020 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you then get that from taylor series with little trouble for analytic functions < 1322679556 57417 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i didn't actually _give_ the proof, i just recalled what i remembered as the answer < 1322679593 46727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider e^(ax) a proof of existence, but okay so you know it's unique < 1322679701 752647 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm pretty sure, although i don't recall how it goes, it's probably some linear operator proof < 1322679756 769344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322679763 208265 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think you need only something like C^n functions to make it so < 1322679788 296197 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, it's obviously C^infty once something _is_ a solution. < 1322680109 97762 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh it may involve one of the basic extension theorems for differential equations - if the values of a solution function and its n-1 first derivatives at a point are given, then its extension to some neighborhood is unique and by some linear algebra some linear combination of the e^(ax) things obviously fits. < 1322680159 14374 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322680381 947390 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the Human article after a while actually reaches Ngevd's Valuation (finance) < 1322680481 454451 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically this path is ridiculously long < 1322680501 309729 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322680518 485690 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I first encountered that loop via Human Population...? < 1322680522 807868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started at "chess" < 1322680551 333919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait sorry it wasn't one of Ngevd's anyway, he had Valuation of options -> Option (finance) at one point < 1322680557 543786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, did they remove the philosophy loop? < 1322680559 873143 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is similar but not the same < 1322680568 304379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we are not doing the same game < 1322680575 387226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1322680636 215628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are looking at the last link of the introduction section, which tends to give _rather_ longer paths < 1322680650 242671 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still has some commonly occuring end cycles < 1322680666 796614 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322680703 118479 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm i wonder what the longest cycle on wikipedia in _general_ is < 1322680713 103592 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. picking which link to follow by a magic oracle that picks the one that leads to the longest cycle :P < 1322680751 380415 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now reaching President of the United States. i don't believe anything has changed on this path since last time < 1322680810 646551 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hm i wonder what would be an algorithm for that. in fact isn't that hamiltonian-cycle like, so likely NP-complete < 1322680816 629926 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322680859 852300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_path_problem ? < 1322680866 394910 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-complete, apparently < 1322680867 696984 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, solving it requires at a minimum finding out whether there is a hamiltonian cycle < 1322680867 875909 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322680868 56589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :could even be harder, but certainly at least as hard as hamiltonian. < 1322680878 154134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hamiltonian hard, it seems < 1322680883 53048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :godo term that < 1322680885 363138 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamiltonian hard < 1322680909 56720 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the usual meaning of "hard" in complexity theory < 1322680925 892034 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just hardness / completeness of the decision problem. but wait, that's enough. < 1322680936 62139 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just do a binary search < 1322680946 690208 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the way it usually goes < 1322680954 744548 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1322680961 307864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the decision problem has a suitable parameter to search by < 1322680988 235369 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nono, a nondeterministic tm cannot necessarily show that something is not doable < 1322681007 638888 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that some length cannot be done < 1322681067 755407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well of course. you end up with the oracle class P^NP < 1322681086 768529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we agree that it's probably not np-complete < 1322681096 358274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :np-hard, is the term :P < 1322681116 966931 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i know that, since i just used it < 1322681124 167236 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obvious from hamiltonian-hard + hamiltonian being NP-complete < 1322681172 721483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically we'd need to show it's in co-np i guess < 1322681215 487970 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322681234 952687 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1322681242 197814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely to be hard for _both_ NP and co-NP, i'd think < 1322681268 10742 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the decision problem is in both np and co-np, then isn't the problem of actually finding the longest path in np < 1322681300 11057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can then do binary search within np < 1322681310 488368 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NFP < 1322681320 628506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1322681336 501500 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1322681351 434621 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :please stop arguing about terminology and start agreeing with everything i say < 1322681351 654949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there? < 1322681375 481863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322681377 723148 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNP, was it < 1322681380 662209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: know anything about Dungeons of Dreadmor? All I know it is a rouge like, and was added to the last humble bundle. < 1322681385 91510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1322681387 125949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I figure you might know if it is any good < 1322681387 734870 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322681388 324898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322681390 341666 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnp < 1322681397 298022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'll give it a try < 1322681435 314227 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions calculabilated in nondeterministic polynomial time < 1322681435 590034 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe. it looks a little tricky. < 1322681445 645462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, difficulty setting: elves (easy), dwarves (normal), going rouge (hard). Plus a permadeath option < 1322681453 181544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what to chose < 1322681463 374473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to go for the nethack way of doing it < 1322681491 208035 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going rouge ... SO RED ... SO RED IT HURTS MY EYES < 1322681503 776909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed that :P < 1322681514 715031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rogue of course < 1322681518 301862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :get an upper bound for biggest value, then do binary search, starting both the np algo and the np algo for the complement at the same time, one of them returns true in polynomial time, continue for linearly many steps to reach value < 1322681530 971940 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm we're on to South Korea, i vaguely recall we may be on the way to the Petronas Towers cycle < 1322681536 956583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1322681542 314267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay no class selection. Instead you select 5 skills from a set of... ~40 < 1322681576 647819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually 7 out of 34. I fail at counting today < 1322681581 813037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a random button < 1322681583 861337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :running the algos at the same time is a polynomial increase, and there's a linear bound on the length of the upper bound < 1322681607 592401 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well i'm just not quite sure that's what they meant by FNP in wikipedia < 1322681622 209635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmph now i really want to know the longest cycle in wikipedia :P < 1322681627 290120 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how many years do i gotta wait to bruteforce it < 1322681649 865754 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's the definition of NP imo :D < 1322681683 721635 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: er NP is decision problems. you are trying to calculate a function problem, which obviously has a different name. < 1322681691 516226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no race selection < 1322681709 458291 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not sure wikipedia's FNP is precisely the class you are using. < 1322681724 850362 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had this strange relation definition < 1322681751 594726 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HOW MANY YEAAAAAAARS < 1322681757 143857 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it has its own article too, i just looked at FP < 1322681775 531587 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but i mean fnp has nothing to do with the class fnp in complexity theory imo < 1322681785 420683 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: get to the singularity first, and we can start estimating < 1322681788 51058 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the language of witnesses < 1322681795 562807 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cries < 1322681795 741873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever they like to call it < 1322681800 123692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how many years !!!! < 1322681812 833726 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: 14 < 1322681826 243948 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there is of course a possibility that wikipedia's graph allows for some greatly simplifying optimizations < 1322681844 40609 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just checked the definition of fnp in my book and it's definitely the relations computable by a nondeterministic turing machine. < 1322681853 787477 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well paths are very short in general < 1322681867 462919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that you get nondeterministic output from your tm < 1322681879 499887 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let me check again, actually... < 1322681883 207121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so far it seems like a good rougelike. Good game music too. It doesn't take itself seriously though. < 1322681897 53440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also often good in roguelikes < 1322681900 458040 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "If you follow the best route in all cases, it takes an average of 4.573 clicks to get from any Wikipedia article to any other." < 1322681931 17941 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bellare and Goldwasser showed in 1994 using some standard assumptions that there exist problems in NP such that their FNP versions are not self-reducible, implying that they are harder than their corresponding decision problem. < 1322681935 102099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I wonder what the value is not counting orphan and linkless? < 1322681935 281491 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1322681956 205584 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1322681971 300470 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Wikipedia has 2301486 articles with 55550003 links between them (at least in my dataset, those numbers have definitely changed by now). The largest "strongly-connected-component" of wikipedia has 2111480 articles. That is, there are 2111480 articles with the property that from any of them, it is possible to get to any other one. The rest are mostly pages that no-one has linked to or disambiguation pages. For the graph-theory nerds, there is no < 1322681971 480441 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other disjoint strongly connected component of more than about 3 articles. For everyone else, the remaining 190006 articles are pretty boring, linkwise." < 1322681974 725498 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so i doubt it'd change much < 1322681986 657946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1322681992 37848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw this, I'm getting the latest humble indie bundle < 1322681996 636567 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnp, in my book, is not even anything, they use the terms NPMV and NPSV for multi- and single-valued functions calculated by a tm < 1322682002 180075 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um i was assuming you wanted to always take the _worst_ route < 1322682005 684292 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes < 1322682008 78170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fp is what it should be < 1322682009 536656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone's probably been looking carefully for walled gardens < 1322682012 341684 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was just telling you the only thing i knew about wikipedia's graph :P < 1322682015 247961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(articles linking to each other but not to articles in general) < 1322682016 836102 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was in 2008 < 1322682032 257367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well yeah, it is graphical of course. What else would one expect from a modern game. Oblique graphics (I think the term is, like isometric but aligned with one axis) < 1322682033 842913 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's more infoboxes < 1322682037 316168 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obsessive linking of dates < 1322682038 807361 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thinks like that < 1322682039 947318 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1322682041 80470 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and countries < 1322682043 690559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: those only go one way < 1322682047 145697 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322682048 278603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't lead to a strongly connected component < 1322682051 866455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it goes both ways < 1322682084 434945 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the complexities below, I just use "n" to denote either number of nodes or number of edges. Since the graph is so sparse, they're mostly interchangeable." < 1322682125 695188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphs? Complexity? This is Eodermdrome, right? < 1322682146 472729 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea for another graph-based esolang < 1322682161 552264 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I remembered I still need to finish Salesman < 1322682163 543642 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petronas Towers it was. < 1322682177 125503 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wikipedia < 1322682199 872326 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wikipedia as an eodermdrome program. discuss. < 1322682200 194306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikidermdrome. < 1322682205 166958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the game has some interesting name for your basic stats. I think "burliness" is it's name for "strength" and so on < 1322682213 411985 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322682214 255429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sagacity is probably int I guess? < 1322682222 272129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, stat names are always a sign of quality! < 1322682222 452380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :caddishness I don't know < 1322682229 791538 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose eodermdrome state fits better. < 1322682232 734958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caddishness, I assume, would be charisma. < 1322682241 836088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no but in this case a sign that the game is not taking itself seriously at all. < 1322682272 262555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nimbleness (dex I presume), savvy (wis?) and stubbornness (?) < 1322682353 404970 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help how do I install .rpm < 1322682358 586242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a traffic cone as a helmet... heh < 1322682381 144238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, is this a Humble Bundle thing? < 1322682384 452554 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322682388 452337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFCON < 1322682406 239412 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's a .deb < 1322682407 421109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: just use the .tar.gz? < 1322682409 249898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1322682409 450404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.debs are easy < 1322682409 849322 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just download the .gz, TbH. < 1322682445 380572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less fuss, and it's not like adding a launcher (the only serious advantage of a .deb in this context) isn't much work. < 1322682579 774500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION purges SpaceChem, uses APT again. < 1322682582 61376 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1322682585 997012 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .deb is not much less fuss. < 1322682591 384931 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can literally double click them to install. < 1322682598 781336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more fuss < 1322682601 562269 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Use the .debs. < 1322682623 988030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was only not using the .debs because of momentary selective blindness < 1322682666 591218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wand of laser < 1322682703 243671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that so far my favourite roguelike is Pokmon Mystery Dungeon Red Rescue Team? < 1322682738 606293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the description of wand of laser is funny: "Aside from tangential properties, this wand's primary magical power involves distracting cats" < 1322682761 453431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty effective still < 1322682789 806009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stats are "entropy: 27, burn rate: 15" whatever that means < 1322682810 88689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's describing the standard entropy value. < 1322682838 426450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay the tutorial just told me, it has a chance of burnout when used based on entropy and entropy increases with every use < 1322682850 137870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about burn rate though < 1322683331 455784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no, it's a pretty good roguelike < 1322683353 717716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky is better, though; Sky removed a lot of rough edges but added a couple of silly mechanics, but it's probably still the best of the three < 1322683359 484139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it starts out far too easy < 1322683364 545178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all three, that is) < 1322683627 738653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322683692 848515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322683761 939926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322683909 768514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for reminding me of that six degrees of wikipedia thing, followed some links and the guy has an interesting series of haskell posts on his blog :P < 1322683947 889949 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322683967 280537 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1322684019 850307 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it involves arrows so i don't understand it :'( < 1322684119 335715 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Applicative be defined in terms of fmap and pure and (liftA2 (,)) instead of (<*>) and pure? < 1322684142 820359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, i said. < 1322684215 481720 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fm <*> x = uncurry ($) `fmap` liftA2 (,) fm x < 1322684332 886732 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i mentioned that a blog comment called it lax monoidal category or something like that < 1322685214 722333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please describe in glowing terms the inventor of IRP. < 1322685214 939729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have no idea who invented IRP < 1322685214 939901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : :( < 1322685225 363828 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In #irp ) < 1322685252 952051 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MVNDI < 1322685415 429922 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you go back in time and not invent IRP? < 1322685443 672994 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: If I hadn't invented IRP, you couldn't have even just requested that in IRP#esoteric NOW COULD YOU < 1322685631 100891 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRP, is that the internet relay programming or whatchamacallit? < 1322685648 653501 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1322685654 560771 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRP is Ignorant Rabbi Preachers. < 1322685658 192148 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is one. < 1322685676 734416 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i suddenly having this deja vu feeling < 1322685700 519109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [i]gnorant rabbi preachers < 1322685728 273915 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-30.txt:20:40:54: IRP is Ignorant Rabbi Preachers. < 1322685816 337227 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i must have loaded from a saved game, or something. < 1322685829 50886 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know how temperamenatl `log is :P < 1322685837 551620 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does synchronicity guarantee that it would have given the right result < 1322685839 16803 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [i]gnorant rabbi preachers < 1322685846 30955 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-30.txt:20:42:08: 2011-11-30.txt:20:40:54: IRP is Ignorant Rabbi Preachers. < 1322685880 401668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it doesn't look _overly_. < 1322685896 142896 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be another word if my brain were working. < 1322686061 517433 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"were"? how many brains do you have? < 1322686082 820414 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which we learn that olsner doesn't know about the subjunctive. < 1322686176 189418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to worry about my increasing snarkiness. slightly. < 1322686178 378437 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* this troll on reddit hasn't replied to the second-last phase of my argument < 1322686311 27229 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, is that the subjunctive? can you combine subjunctive with if? < 1322686322 21105 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure < 1322686379 987497 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i suspect that's the _majority_ of uses < 1322686532 269050 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322686668 220526 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well.. I'm not the authority on moods anyway, not even the subjunctive one < 1322686776 463710 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your original line was slightly awkward-seeming btw < 1322686786 77682 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1322686787 914830 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not wrong at all < 1322686791 91868 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there would be another word if my brain were working. < 1322686798 556039 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there would be another word were my brain working" seems better to me < 1322686806 899692 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1322686847 233060 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of course looks more awkward to _me_, but... :P < 1322686860 465181 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! told ya the if was wonky < 1322686915 727926 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the whole thing is kind of awkward, it doesn't feel like the way someone would talk without trying to < 1322686962 691519 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiet, Thou < 1322686989 982053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking without trying to is also awkward < 1322687002 144392 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah is fohel askgaøla gloher < 1322687006 504132 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... were it to happen < 1322688255 585149 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322688767 771902 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh i just realised that arrow notation having banana brackets is funny < 1322688783 675109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1322688792 462502 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you < 1322688793 94587 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1322688799 135295 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1322688806 184567 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: time flies like a < 1322688812 545269 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n < 1322688819 62412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott_ -----### < 1322688825 717275 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1322688829 649570 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crying < 1322688836 980779 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a banana fly on your head < 1322688892 407022 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (do you (understand arow,)es) < 1322688904 395149 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one does < 1322688929 552543 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even oleg just pretends they're applicatives + category < 1322688956 543111 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have not found that to help, seeing as I failed to derive arr from Applicative + Category without looking it up :P < 1322688961 331937 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((<$> id)) < 1322688969 427125 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny that < 1322688985 273214 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implyig im stupid :( < 1322689045 625680 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah just retired < 1322689056 765415 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cry < 1322689075 297514 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of oxygen. < 1322689113 994016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you know about weird C++ stuff right? < 1322689122 123013 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: kill oerjan , to die for, insult with old meme < 1322689133 981432 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i AM weird C++ stuff --leonardo de vinci < 1322689137 903894 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*da < 1322689138 179236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1322689145 797154 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wai < 1322689146 277888 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1322689150 215357 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obnoxious meme is obnoxious < 1322689150 394183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :da is actually rihght < 1322689151 399359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: any idea why foo might not work (due to "'foo' was not declared in this scope") while this->foo works perfectly? < 1322689153 651172 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was meant to be a funny joke < 1322689155 994483 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops. < 1322689159 880401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: templates are involved < 1322689169 723751 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is this a puzzle or can i see code < 1322689197 51499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it is from darwinia source, trying to get it to compile. Adding this-> worked. I don't think I'm legally allowed to paste it just like that. < 1322689209 262670 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i own the bundle. < 1322689219 450855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well I need to paste it to you in private then, sec < 1322689315 10675 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if internet memes will be like fashion, and recycle in a few decades < 1322689337 527895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd did a comic on that, although I can't remember if it was pre- or post-decay. < 1322689346 404663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://xkcd.com/286/ < 1322689351 948883 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WAY AHEAD OF YOU < 1322689367 238575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-decay, then. < 1322689377 50570 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your memes are belong to us < 1322689396 630985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retroturn. < 1322689412 178483 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, when was aybabtu? < 1322689464 808787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- became an Internet phenomenon or meme in 2000–2002." < 1322689465 488060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322689471 648748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: see /msg < 1322689472 317288 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ask a random channel when you can ask Wikipedia? < 1322689493 132930 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked first, then I went to wikipedia and waited for someone to repeat the information I just read there < 1322689496 455449 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IF WE WANT A RANDOM ANSWER < 1322689505 120579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a funnier answer < 1322689514 596479 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YOUR MISTAKE WAS SPEAKING < 1322689533 813497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of what I speak is like that. < 1322689713 505157 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, you're cheating. < 1322689717 44723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't speak and then chat like that. < 1322689721 512689 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cheat < 1322689778 216065 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322690348 502604 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322690531 942495 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322690542 911672 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322690662 440345 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322690824 308590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Quit: #lesswrong < 1322691497 872759 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322691616 646493 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Test the Windows build already < 1322691626 163515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: help < 1322691725 369604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just noticed my email in my account settings was 0.034064395384923 I asume that was the issue. < 1322691729 576936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1322691740 738668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it seems to be back to normal now…) < 1322691781 723917 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322691989 324199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXOVbYUamc < 1322691996 104208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: quintopia should live in IKEA. < 1322692237 303703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322693422 54985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXOVbYUamc <-- cool < 1322695202 77738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322695204 45930 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322695212 637712 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea < 1322696532 96678 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322697437 737370 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric