< 1322697895 133781 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322697896 764521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322698590 933909 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322698764 197766 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: updating xchat-wdk < 1322698796 54359 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322699430 964604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322700114 667590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The things about Dungeons&Dragons game, is that unlike chess and poker and so on, it is possible to solve situations that are impossible to solve. < 1322700840 256700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322701162 420069 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322701364 555040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/barrier-monad < 1322701680 695230 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322701877 877069 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322702100 224366 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1322702643 363056 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1322702645 818375 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory PART :#esoteric < 1322702797 30198 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322702807 312407 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322705329 410484 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322705692 211653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322705702 362848 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322705705 44291 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322706193 996984 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322706307 803514 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322706415 243951 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322706430 256150 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 NICK :alloca_i32 < 1322706697 440114 :alloca_i32!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 NICK :itidus21 < 1322707008 458611 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322708838 671983 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log situation < 1322708843 971270 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-11-15.txt:18:29:06: (I'm aware of the US phone situation) < 1322710936 737098 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322712632 966626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented the D&D feat "Favored Mercy"; you have to select a creature type same as the ranger's favored enemy list and then there are various bonuses and restrictions that apply. < 1322712819 655152 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Science Made Stupid: How to Discomprehend the World Around Us" by Tom Weller < 1322712866 518265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cvltvre Made Stvpid: A Misguided Tour of Illiterature, Fine & Dandy Arts, & the Subhumanities" by Tom Weller < 1322713095 420417 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322714267 7203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1322714285 199469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone no of a google API where I can grab timezone info? < 1322714293 922176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent to the "time in " searched < 1322714296 210026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*searches < 1322714407 429964 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322715596 269854 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, update < 1322715607 960974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oZOMG < 1322715627 112463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: tzinfo? < 1322715717 597558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: can I ask tzinfo "time in anywhere, USA" and it will tell me the time? < 1322715784 187212 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, zoneinfo < 1322715785 869101 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. < 1322715794 213176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, possibly. < 1322715812 350227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it would work with small town names though < 1322715822 807634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just... do google searches and regex the time. :P < 1322715833 70844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably need a map for *that*. < 1322715848 709371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's an IRC bot so dependence on a network connection isn't a problem) < 1322715867 705685 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's bound to screw up: town name is ambiguous. :) < 1322715885 681858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. < 1322715896 951042 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with state I *think* it might not be? < 1322715905 198449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a reasonable person would provide a town, state combo < 1322715923 48296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a town, whateverelseyourcountrycallsthisshit, country < 1322716025 679122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... boiling peanuts is rather time consuming. < 1322716031 563299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose to boil them for like 24 hours. < 1322716152 447342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well, Google doesn't really make this easy. < 1322716164 645509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there XML api is better for this. < 1322716534 950656 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the sidereal time? < 1322716649 678577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes it's 04:18 LST here < 1322716656 958977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322718770 672157 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a welsh town? < 1322718790 112461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322718799 697348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whateverelseyourcountrycallsthisshit < 1322718849 888824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no town is a whateverelseyourcountrycallsthisshit town. < 1322718855 707576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1322718909 613282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been boiling peanuts for over an hour now. < 1322718926 393949 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then there is a town named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch < 1322718973 237507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look that's an actual thing. < 1322719009 80275 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toponymy is the scientific study of place names (toponyms), their origins, meanings, use and typology. A toponymist is one who studies toponymy. < 1322719077 892531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: The apple is the pomaceous fruit of the apple tree, species Malus domestica in the rose family (Rosaceae). It is one of the most widely cultivated tree fruits, and the most widely known of the many members of genus Malus that are used by humans. Apple grow on small, deciduous trees that blossom in the spring and produce fruit in the fall. < 1322719082 981647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322719159 748696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, these peanuts are still kind of crunchy. < 1322719166 805302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe another hour? :P < 1322719353 904085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A seminal experiment by Karen Wynn in 1992 involving Mickey Mouse dolls manipulated behind a screen demonstrated that five-month-old infants expect 1 + 1 to be 2, and they are comparatively surprised when a physical situation seems to imply that 1 + 1 is either 1 or 3. < 1322719365 81538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322719386 832081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50 < 1322719390 108174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :serate erilinst squcefingrata nridi sche dk feculaza le pres elatardia kan za ar sau rempanissidaroparinsilh tovigisallassa toncippilluce riedaiilloccau tfinan rous affiens feaatherroellyte rumqh sed em jelendcclocwted nut va acistophoroculvaliamangtola disses climan coo ebyted wity baniff hinosele proley widuchissirs forraseek oliterskiitcligitussies kr rapeosendon co pos lornfiernsident unalragewelsiegaus ze beffuringlatismen natschic bareng < 1322719402 696303 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after being taught the meanings of the Arabic numerals 0 through 4, one chimpanzee was able to compute the sum of two numerals without further training < 1322719412 642119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :feaatherroellyte < 1322719668 460573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: O, you do know the sidereal time. Do you know the moon declination? < 1322719791 592705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322719904 849062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nope < 1322719924 509898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I actually just googled for the former. :P < 1322719929 546629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I now know what it means. < 1322719937 403295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon declination is -8 degrees 18 minutes < 1322719945 602686 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sideral time is the right ascension of the zenith. < 1322719961 130612 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322719970 747525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2h33m here < 1322719987 177494 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322720071 551500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second that looked like leetspeak.. < 1322720081 844165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some weird way to say "same here" < 1322720100 725193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I meant 2 hour 33 minutes < 1322720106 737026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know. < 1322720248 195282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwww yeah boiled peanut time. < 1322720251 978466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have never had boiled peanuts < 1322720255 492348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly recommend that you do. < 1322720301 152050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what right ascension and declination are? These are equatorial coordinates; do you know ecliptic coordinates? < 1322720564 297360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vaguely familiar with what an ecliptic is. < 1322720575 292992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that ecliptic coordinates are based on the ecliptic plane. < 1322720588 541384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what it is. < 1322720672 466567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm guessing equatorial coordinates are based on the equator? < 1322720678 424083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322720729 62131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hour angle can be used instead of right ascension. And you can use local hour angle or Greenwich hour angle. < 1322720760 800488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more or less expressing the same thing as right ascension, yes? < 1322720774 807615 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the difference is where the zero will be. < 1322720778 428571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322720802 485351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hour angle in different units compared to right ascension? < 1322720832 275343 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually they are both given in units of hours, although you can use degrees instead. < 1322720918 172132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so greenwich hour angle and right ascension are equivalently based on the prime meridian. < 1322720951 309658 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right ascension has zero at the vernal equinox. Greenwich hour angle has zero at Greenwich. < 1322720966 159732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local hour angle is based on your location. < 1322721018 820420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322721051 710954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be useful to know local hour angle if you're looking for celestial bodies in the sky. < 1322721060 248980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any notion of local declination? < 1322721093 451078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Not as far as I know, but I was thinking about the same thing earlier today; you could have local declination too. < 1322721114 735817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just be less convenient without GPS monitoring of some kind < 1322721127 91735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with local hour angle you could go by your time zone instead of the precise longitude. < 1322721263 518632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these poorly made boiled peanuts make me want some actual boiled peanuts. < 1322721278 216933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, but timezones are only approximate. Using your precise longitude is better (you could find it in a city list if you have no GPS, and enter it into the computer, together with your latitude as well) < 1322721302 564254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course city lists are more accurate than using timezones but still not perfectly accurate because the city is larger than one point. < 1322721324 271236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically took some ripe shelled frozen peanuts and boiled them. you're supposed to take unripe peanuts with shells and boil them forever in salt water like peas. < 1322721343 796493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is your barrier monad code up yet >.> < 1322721351 673038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1322721358 333190 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package is called "barrier-monad" < 1322721381 954503 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1322721387 96988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no peanuts < 1322721408 250603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if they sell raw unripe peanuts. < 1322721437 873702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you grow peanuts in your garden? < 1322721439 362303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically you buy boiled peanuts from stands. it's a popular thing in the deep south where peanuts are grown (especially Georgia and South Carolina) < 1322721443 641744 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322721448 90109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: doubt it. < 1322721454 119327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on where you live < 1322721516 391349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically you buy boiled peanuts from stands. it's a popular thing in the deep south where peanuts are grown (especially Georgia and South Carolina)Peanuts grow best in light, sandy loam soil. They require five months of warm weather, and an annual rainfall of 500 to 1,000 mm (20 to 39 in) or the equivalent in irrigation water. < 1322721535 414468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peanuts grow best in light, sandy loam soil. They require five months of warm weather, and an annual rainfall of 500 to 1,000 mm (20 to 39 in) or the equivalent in irrigation water. < 1322721539 415454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322721561 870493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: good luck :P < 1322721717 686038 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls his mom grew tomatoes and cucumbers indoors, they needed buckets of water every day < 1322721755 116142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you live in a barren icy tundra. < 1322721756 873047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1322721757 869139 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure there were tomatoes, i think there were cucumbers. < 1322721763 897191 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: close enough. < 1322721804 966909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure tomatos more or less grow themselves here. < 1322721812 856283 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should point out this was still done in the summer, so they did get sunlight through the big glass door. < 1322721818 589950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents have a tomato garden and I don't think I've seen them upkeep it very much. < 1322721883 27954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also corn. wow, imagine that! plants that originate from the Americas grow well in the Americas! < 1322721892 508300 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well afair it was mostly the water. < 1322721931 610656 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the americas _are_ big you know, and especially in the north-south direction which temperatures vary along :P < 1322721969 688859 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i vaguely think i read corn originated in the tropics. < 1322721982 163103 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incas or mayas or thereby < 1322722025 553361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but now we have like miles and miles of yellow corn being mass produced in the midwest < 1322722027 509665 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess georgia is nearly tropical, isn't that were you were from < 1322722033 393188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it's "sub-tropical" < 1322722068 107132 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not to mention we've got a lot of climactic changes from geography. < 1322722074 174120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's really hot in the summer, noticeably cold in the winter, and always humid. < 1322722075 853473 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also guess they've probably bred varieties that need less heat < 1322722088 283330 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: heh < 1322722129 521790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :current humidity: 100% (it just rained a few hours ago :P) < 1322722131 732426 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Such breeding was lost to the mists of time; domesticated corn had already pretty well spread through the Americas. < 1322722147 496711 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my time the one time i was staying in the US was in Seattle, which probably does not fit that description. Boston did when i was there, though. < 1322722158 971216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the midwest is insane. < 1322722165 358899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally miles and miles of corn and soybeans. < 1322722169 199336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1322722203 602579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got grazing melding into corn fields... Over the course of several hundred miles. < 1322722220 887016 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah i just recently read that the original english settlers learned to grow corn < 1322722243 224742 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1322722261 514265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I know all this stuff about right ascension and ecliptic plane and that stuff due to looking at oerjan's "Agora Nomic's Horoscope" and I didn't know what "Node" is or what all these lines and numbers means, or what "Placidus houses" is; and then I downloaded Astrolog (and Daedalus, the author's other program) and it had a bunch of other features that I didn't understand, < 1322722270 33599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we learn about that shit in middle school history. :P < 1322722305 464827 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i figure it is part of the thanksgiving lore < 1322722315 49724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but we don't learn any important history in middle school. < 1322722319 291673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, it is. < 1322722347 680728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wondered why the sunrise/sunset times in this program are a bit off (I think it is because of refraction), and I figured out how to use it to calculate the date of Chinese New Year, and so on. < 1322722372 726403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell Thanksgiving is basically "let's eat a bunch of stuff that's native to North America" < 1322722379 616940 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well you definitely should know more than me already after all your experiments < 1322722396 299379 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I wrote this code to try to show off your Barrier monad, sorry if it's horrible and ugly and evil < 1322722396 971872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/54738 < 1322722464 534975 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think i saw someone mention a monad essentially identical to the Barrier monad under a different name on some haskell forum recently. i've forgotten what the name was, though. < 1322722478 34568 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not completely unknown < 1322722522 40542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: At least it works; I don't know if it is horrible and ugly and evil but it is a simple demonstration (simpler than many things you could do with this library) < 1322722571 678463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sgeo: oh yes that is very analagous to Python coroutines. < 1322722576 692843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming more could be done though < 1322722584 565899 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i come to think of it, shouldn't there be a way to split the Barrier monad into two transformers, one for each part? < 1322722600 334303 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, can you put yield into a function in Python and call that function and have it work sensibly? < 1322722610 38914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes. < 1322722616 138994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo sensibly < 1322722617 523898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I thought of that someone else might have done similar things, anyways that happens a lot in mathematics (and programming in Haskell involves much about mathematics) < 1322722642 745097 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322722752 175641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://pastebin.com/j732vmzF < 1322722777 652206 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also possible to throw exceptions into a coroutine from other code. < 1322722783 930937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :g = generate(10) < 1322722790 709481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :g.throw(SomeException) < 1322722798 333556 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite what I meant < 1322722807 985507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And yes I suppose I also know more about the Astrolog and what all that stuff means since I have used most of its features (except the biorhythms and the interpretation mode used for Agora; I don't care for those), and so on... I configured the file to use different defaults, such as degrees instead of zodiac signs, Campanus instead of Placidus, and so on < 1322722809 414099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean then? < 1322722813 58346 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, can you encapsulate complex yield code and use that in place of the yield keyword? < 1322722821 88602 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make a generator < 1322722859 766591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, calling the function produces the generator, with some plumbing it's possible but it's not implicit. < 1322722860 238702 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322722892 720150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know how generator functions work in JavaScript. Any function containing "yield" is a generator function, and it returns a Generator object when called (not doing anything yet). When you call the next or send methods of the generator function, it runs until yield, at which point the next or send method returns the value being yield and send(x) will cause the yield to x < 1322722899 794905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my MUD I was actually working on a menu system that maintained a stack of coroutines. when the top coroutine is exhausted it would pop off and go back to the previous one. < 1322722907 76298 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh my nose tip got all scaly from blowing my nose < 1322722920 239891 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite putting on lots of lotion < 1322722921 575688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes that's how it works in Python < 1322722928 374106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the addition of a throw method that allows you to signal exceptions. < 1322722930 964903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make it yourself without using yield; that is possible too (you simply need to return an object with the correct methods) < 1322722941 964208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: JavaScript generator functions have that too. < 1322722994 752267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i assume to work properly inside functions, yield needs to encapsulate a continuation < 1322723017 133999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also menu coroutines could do things like manipulate the menu stack or defer to previous menu (without actually being consumed) < 1322723041 235153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but essentially if the courtine yielded a new generate then the system pushed the new generator onto the stack, so it was fairly natural to write nested menu code. < 1322723042 529929 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not a completely arbitrary one < 1322723055 204857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*generator < 1322723112 221337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty neat, but I never actually finished the MUD codebase < 1322723118 62846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because I was doing pointless stuff like that. < 1322723178 790062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it would be possible to abstract that sort of nested coroutine system into one coroutine. < 1322723215 746826 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the controller coroutine is the outside interface, and delegates input/output to the coroutines in the stack that it maintains. < 1322723312 850367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can barrier monads do anything like that? < 1322723319 992397 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:29: zzo38: yes it's 04:18 LST here < 1322723323 319923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in there current state. < 1322723327 693438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't doubt the possibility < 1322723359 319609 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently tunes also uses sidereal time. < 1322723362 682541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Haskell code using the library that I wrote, which is like the Python code example posted, would be like this: generate i = yield i >>= generate . maybe (succ i) id; < 1322723386 498879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you sure? < 1322723408 567925 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it was a joke by the fact it was at almost the same minute, and tunes _does_ have a broken clock < 1322723426 31776 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322723432 163335 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1322723438 513391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You probably can do something like that in Haskell somehow, using barrier monads, possibly using the BarrierT (the monad transformer for barrier monad) < 1322723453 550827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does generate work? < 1322723454 746265 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was pasting codu :P < 1322723483 804576 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It is like the Python example code you posted: http://pastebin.com/j732vmzF < 1322723492 472827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but how does it actually work. :P < 1322723507 815795 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is crosstalk actually useful? >.> < 1322723518 923905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh < 1322723520 844686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm blind < 1322723522 232577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: :P < 1322723524 221790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard < 1322723526 422994 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know but I think you suggested that to me isn' it? < 1322723533 632665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "help what is recursion" < 1322723543 80729 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'm just wondering if what I suggested might be completely useless < 1322723581 799893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, I don't know; maybe someone will find a use for it, either for computer programming or for mathematical use. < 1322723594 940001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm thinking an explicit stack is unecessary < 1322723606 447666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... maybe it is? < 1322723614 64945 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:56:49: Toponymy is the scientific study of place names (toponyms), their origins, meanings, use and typology. A toponymist is one who studies toponymy. < 1322723617 556436 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:57:57: itidus21: The apple is the pomaceous fruit of the apple tree, species Malus domestica in the rose family (Rosaceae). It is one of the most widely cultivated tree fruits, and the most widely known of the many members of genus Malus that are used by humans. Apple grow on small, deciduous trees that blossom in the spring and produce fruit in the fall. < 1322723646 115703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it just be handled with simple recursion? < 1322723647 198108 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the city name Almaty originally means "father of the apple" < 1322723650 662097 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322723671 249982 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Probably it can be done without an explicit stack; recursion probably works OK < 1322723688 729163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe with >> even < 1322723758 737516 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's apparently the older Alma-Ata form which means that < 1322723797 283160 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaty#Toponymy < 1322723824 947579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = yieldSomeStuff >> (if someCondition then (>> f x) else id) barrier2 < 1322723827 32041 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, you can use >> if you don't need the back values. Or whatever other values there are when using BarrierT with other monads too < 1322723913 561520 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Almaty is still related to apples.) < 1322723916 285208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I suppose that is another way, too. < 1322723937 557068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>> f x)? < 1322723950 152336 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1322723951 179777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, I'm so cool. < 1322723957 690874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONDITIONAL FUNCTIONS DUDE < 1322723959 398603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :way of the future. < 1322723962 18236 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmmm, these peanuts are still kind of crunchy. <-- WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT NON-CRUNCHY PEANUTS, IT MAKES NO SENSE < 1322723974 419575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because they're boiled and thus soft and salty and delicious. < 1322723988 839560 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm boiled pnuts < 1322723994 384837 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT BUT THEY'RE NOT _CRUNCHY_ SO IT'S ALL MEANINGLESS < 1322724004 300661 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I misread that in the obvious fashion. < 1322724004 597061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude boiled > roasted < 1322724007 703852 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy murricans < 1322724008 819652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any day. < 1322724021 899054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roasted is all dry and gross < 1322724025 82363 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you are wrong < 1322724028 248637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :go eat some actual nut < 1322724037 171848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cashew (hahaha get it because it's not an actual nut?) < 1322724043 361417 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek i have unleashed the american hordes < 1322724057 261950 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just the georgia hordes < 1322724060 496719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: boiled peanuts aren't even really a completely American thing. < 1322724061 734563 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322724078 617715 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably tell a New Yorker to eat some boiled peanuts and they'd be like "wat" < 1322724086 544211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah dont knock it til youve tried it man < 1322724113 914624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's just common in places where peanuts are grown. mainly in the south. < 1322724119 839073 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :georgi is the peanut state. we get to decide what peanuts are best < 1322724140 794397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually don't grow the kind of peanuts that are supposedly best for boiling < 1322724150 655138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valencia is supposed to be better than Runners. we grow Runners. < 1322724191 141068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eating boiled peanuts is kind of like... eating some kind of shellfish < 1322724200 422750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with peanut instead of fish meats. < 1322724201 472183 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont actually know anything about peanuts < 1322724202 237232 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322724205 502350 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lost me there < 1322724211 323489 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Roasted is by far the more common thing in America. < 1322724213 258126 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well it's probably all that crazy mad scientist GWC's fault < 1322724221 939407 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah man < 1322724225 536889 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gwc is the shit < 1322724246 362894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad peanut scientists... < 1322724252 935099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peanut butter, fuck yeah. < 1322724258 393663 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd have invented more but he disappeared in his peanut oil powered time machine < 1322724270 654666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: peanut oil is awesome btw < 1322724273 795010 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the best mad food scientist is clearly robert c baker < 1322724332 642632 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lets ship oerjan some boiled peanuts in a can. i know its not as good as fresh, but maybe it would be enough to sway him? < 1322724341 758140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's a shame that oerjan probably doesn't know the joy of deep-fried chicken in peanut oil. < 1322724344 345942 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sounds like a fowl guy < 1322724345 4455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: per. haps < 1322724373 226748 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill buy the can if youll cover shipping < 1322724380 920857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1322724396 232276 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, oerjan, "deep-fried *" is as American as you can get. < 1322724453 475427 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: also scottish, i hear < 1322724464 286031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they borrowed it from us. :P < 1322724464 676392 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1322724487 127135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you've had chik-fil-a yes? < 1322724538 359903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they're like... common in many US states now. < 1322724574 664541 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people have issues with funding anti-gay organisations, though. < 1322724597 960438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I knew they were Christian based but not anti-gay < 1322724600 580405 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you have to think how many things we take for granted were actually invented by someone < 1322724612 922101 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nearly all of them) < 1322724616 747584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: woah dude < 1322724620 840794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had never thought of it that way. < 1322724628 349835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mind blown. < 1322724651 85798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: They're *American* Christian based. The only Christians in America that are in any way loud about it hate gay people so much. (and, of course, make regular trips to the nearest gloryhole) < 1322724689 956252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooool < 1322724700 861719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION consults the yellow pages for the nearest gloryhole. < 1322724721 478588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: gloryholes near Jasper, GA < 1322724721 841725 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sic transit gloria mundi < 1322724784 844127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm "glory hole rock shop" in Jasper, GA < 1322724787 437297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite what I wanted. < 1322724796 670162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is a "rock shop" < 1322724817 272285 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes i have had chik-fil-a < 1322724822 423135 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont anymore tho < 1322724842 920690 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of what pikhq said < 1322725037 120580 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i hate their marketing dept forever < 1322725061 169934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322725072 590969 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbef iz sketchy eh? < 1322725102 327948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck no. mechanically separated chicken is < 1322725646 798198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sketchy" understates. < 1322725852 577251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, UPDOOT < 1322726425 616062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else like starcraft2? < 1322726563 628276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322728265 725296 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322728450 511322 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just post the question to reddit.com/r/doesanybodyelse >:) < 1322729688 711393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle forkIO < 1322729689 259771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Concurrent forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId < 1322729689 439076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc.Sync forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId < 1322729689 439266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId < 1322729884 923343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forever . putStrLn $ "Hello, World!" < 1322729885 958114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `b' in the constraint: < 1322729886 137018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Typeable.Typeable b... < 1322729902 320324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with this? < 1322730011 848407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forever . putStrLn < 1322730014 821208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. String -> IO b < 1322730037 583379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, it's because of the ambiguous result type < 1322730046 528511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: works fine in ghci though. < 1322730050 945805 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forever . putStrLn $ "Hello, World!" :: IO () < 1322730052 467775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322730065 218775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ghci assume IO () or something? < 1322730073 298519 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's because ghci doesn't do a typeclass check on b < 1322730075 501606 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1322730096 54898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't have a Show instance for IO < 1322730096 532766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does lambdabot? < 1322730099 144923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1322730109 346180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaah < 1322730120 568422 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while lambdabot uses Typeable b => Show (IO b) in order to print that thing < 1322730149 436046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322730183 568231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there any standard type that doesn't derive Typeable < 1322730187 745328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci just runs the action, and possibly prints the result with the right option set < 1322730191 427137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically one that lambdabot exposes? < 1322730202 535174 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322730240 788521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much any type can derive typeable < 1322730245 266438 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t typeRef < 1322730246 124940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `typeRef' < 1322730247 7384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would probably be hard to find. < 1322730268 672661 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not if it has type arguments of kind not * < 1322730282 137458 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can still write a custom one then < 1322730289 296939 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t typeRep < 1322730289 476116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Int# < 1322730289 828114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1322730290 7065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1322730290 7261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts breakpoint :: a -> a < 1322730290 186081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `typeRep' < 1322730297 283868 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1322730302 683951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Typeable < 1322730302 864095 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My brain just exploded < 1322730305 813414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> Int# < 1322730306 119112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (!!) :: [a] -> Int -> a < 1322730306 298203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List (!!) :: [a] -> Int -> a < 1322730306 298387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence index :: Seq a -> Int -> a < 1322730320 905566 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Typeable a => a -> b < 1322730321 935194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException throwDyn :: Typeable exception => exception -> b < 1322730322 117471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1322730322 117684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Dynamic toDyn :: Typeable a => a -> Dynamic < 1322730372 917193 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: IO (StateT IO Int) < 1322730373 782957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Control.Monad.Trans.State.Lazy.StateT GHC.Types.IO GHC.Types.Int' is not a... < 1322730387 37307 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322730392 128156 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: IO (StateT Int IO Int) < 1322730392 926675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Typeable.Typeable1 < 1322730393 105704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Control.Monad... < 1322730396 135820 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322730400 696919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well that's one < 1322730412 90250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... StateT? < 1322730422 32658 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k StateT < 1322730422 905747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -> (* -> *) -> * -> * < 1322730438 334863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it just doesn't have an instance? < 1322730445 454725 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you see it has a * -> * argument, so cannot be derived, and nobody presumably bothered to make one < 1322730482 206174 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me check < 1322730517 505172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..10] < 1322730518 302906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] < 1322730520 807012 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah looks like it < 1322730573 989864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new polymorphic kind extension will probably make it possible to derive any Typeable eventually < 1322730584 133302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t for < 1322730585 35486 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `for' < 1322730591 339329 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322730598 824880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems strange to call it forM < 1322730600 914191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's no for < 1322730603 416526 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking sometimes that for seems to be missing :P < 1322730622 365931 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just be flip map, presumably < 1322730627 654861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let for = flip map < 1322730628 981945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322730629 162005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1322730647 454020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> for [1..10] (\x -> show x) < 1322730649 92356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","2","3","4","5","6","7","8","9","10"] < 1322730652 511024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am teh leet Python programmer < 1322730772 997871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newIORef < 1322730773 890365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `newIORef' < 1322730778 397214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t writeIORef < 1322730779 225273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `writeIORef' < 1322730802 385887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: "no imperative programming allowed" < 1322730830 976740 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can use ST, i think < 1322730836 261804 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newSTRef < 1322730837 155326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a s. a -> ST s (STRef s a) < 1322730859 278745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1322731107 162006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runST < 1322731107 998030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (forall s. ST s a) -> a < 1322731359 104038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; get = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); return (get x) } in factorial 5 < 1322731359 941055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type is less polymorphic than expected < 1322731360 123159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quantified type variable... < 1322731366 680626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1322731484 767683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help < 1322731671 609719 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; get = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); get x } in factorial 5 < 1322731672 448315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 120 < 1322731739 434983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322731742 301732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t readSTRef < 1322731743 141242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s a. STRef s a -> ST s a < 1322731744 763312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. :P < 1322731801 225679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; return = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); returm x } in factorial 5 < 1322731801 986448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `returm' < 1322731806 912549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; return = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); return x } in factorial 5 < 1322731807 679734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 120 < 1322731820 958987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the most elegant way to write factorial. < 1322731865 546563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a Python coder writing Haskell, I find that forM [1..n] (x *=) is a tad unreadable < 1322731871 659329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x *= what exactly? < 1322731874 460417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense. < 1322731908 725479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a corollary to "most elegant way to write factorial", < 1322731910 233483 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; return = readSTRef; bestIdEver x = runST $ do { y <- var x; return y } in bestIdEver 42 < 1322731911 72471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42 < 1322732008 824997 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite nice. < 1322732044 777626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course a real Haskell programmer never leaves ST < 1322732056 447911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only (x *= ◌) were the same thing as (x *=), then it'd make sense; x *= the hole. < 1322732062 737262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really we should omit the runST and simply pass in STRefs < 1322732137 418827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually just omit the runST < 1322732150 608663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing STRefs would be if you want pass-by-reference < 1322732504 769122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fizzie: would be nice to have a Ref typeclass with the var function < 1322732510 333767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Ref IO IORef where var = newIORef < 1322732538 553076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think I like the name ref better. < 1322732559 130237 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are some things called Refs and others called Vars? < 1322732582 777543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable implies a syntactical feature < 1322732607 382211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2 < 1322732626 776936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is the variable. YOu access via the syntax of the programming language, simply by writing its name. < 1322732650 647822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An MVar is not any more syntactic than an IORef though. < 1322732655 405375 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's great, except it doesn't explain why Haskell has MVars and TVars < 1322732659 924508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322732670 57919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. different people write different code? :P < 1322732677 319424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they're in the report < 1322732678 7543 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MRef" sounds too much like a dog barking? < 1322732721 616860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you're a norseman < 1322732744 719434 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, "arf!" < 1322732772 906098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mref mref mref!" < 1322732889 865488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone actually uses ST < 1322732966 751093 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how the descriptions of IORef and STRef both use the word "variable" ("A mutable variable in the IO monad", "a mutable variable in state thread") while neither of the descriptions for MVar and TVar do ("mutable location", "Shared memory locations"). < 1322732993 678244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be better if MVar and TVar said "reference" < 1322733351 654393 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322735520 55875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x*sin(X^2 + 1)) 5 < 1322735520 897926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `X' < 1322735525 14281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x*sin(x^2 + 1)) 5 < 1322735525 949516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 33.10852456691162 < 1322735543 18224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x*sin(x^2 + 1)) (x :: Expr) < 1322735543 877077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * sin (x * x + 1) + x * ((1 * x + x * 1) * cos (x * x + 1)) < 1322735590 471282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only it reduced properly... < 1322735621 462707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x + x == 2*x < 1322735622 366828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322735626 636856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322736042 441808 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x == x < 1322736043 339619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322736046 219330 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1322736050 41995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 * x == x < 1322736050 881945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322736071 277983 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0 * x < 1322736072 113754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 * x < 1322736075 586483 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x * 0 < 1322736076 394944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x * 0 < 1322736109 60825 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe == should just be undefined < 1322736112 796306 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x > y < 1322736113 736372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322736119 124119 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x < y < 1322736119 936239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322736129 815138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ords of genius. < 1322736216 524446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well it kind of can't make sense unless Expr is demonstrating a particular kind of Num instance. < 1322736243 566034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all Num instances were fields, you could make a number of reductions that make two Exprs with different textual representations equivalent. < 1322736279 952036 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, didn't think about that < 1322736530 705029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unless you do some pretty complicated symbolic reasoning you're not really going to get an Eq instance that comes anywhere close to basically determine if two arbitrary expressions are equal. < 1322736550 808188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the assumption that the Num instance that Expr is representing behaves like real numbers. < 1322736683 523110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322737184 480746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t extract < 1322737185 411399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall source. (Extract source) => (Int, Int) -> source -> source < 1322737192 634083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322737193 161645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no < 1322737198 558104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=>=) < 1322737199 464832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `=>=' < 1322737528 952632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322737564 828278 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322737565 767764 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 QUIT :Changing host < 1322737565 948356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322737699 512376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 3 "<>=" < 1322737700 264184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["<<<","<<>","<<=","<><","<>>","<>=","<=<","<=>","<==","><<","><>","><=",">... < 1322737704 294879 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should have all of those. < 1322737745 506229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :["<<<","<<>","<<=","<><","<>>","<>=","<=<","<=>","<==","><<","><>","><=",">><",">>>",">>=",">=<",">=>",">==","=<<","=<>","=<=","=><","=>>","=>=","==<","==>","==="] -- that's not such a long list. And I'm sure they can figure out some meanings for everyone. < 1322737761 334275 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example <>< could make some fish swim across the screen. < 1322737991 225682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<=> is compare ala Perl. < 1322738075 125916 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :><> makes the fishes go the other way. < 1322738127 563211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322738128 383523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322738134 933449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused as to where this function comes from < 1322738138 942398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it anywhere on the interwebs < 1322738285 861345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/2009.8.9/doc/html/Data-Number-Dif.html ? < 1322738572 394906 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://holumbus.fh-wedel.de/hayoo/hayoo.html?query=%28Dif%20a%20-%3E%20Dif%20b%29%20-%3E%20a%20-%3E%20b ) < 1322738968 714197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<= and =<< are from Feather < 1322738988 209693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :retroactive and proactive assignment, respectively < 1322739003 20367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proactive assignment does nothing right now, but controls when in time a retroactive assignment happens) < 1322739083 857626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> read "1" :: Dif Int < 1322739084 677360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1~~ < 1322739120 167732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> df $ read "1" :: Dif Int < 1322739120 967752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0~~ < 1322739126 682725 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322739135 428635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> df (read "1" :: Dif Int) < 1322739136 180722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0~~ < 1322739138 738751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1322739244 210164 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>, ≫, ⋙; greater-than, much greater-than, very much greater-than; sadly I think that's where they gave up. (Though there is ⫸, the triple nested greater-than.) < 1322739317 168352 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly there would have been more intensifiers to go with. Really very much greater-than, honestly really very much greater-than, I'm not even kidding how much greater-than, etc. < 1322739322 291255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate df (sin (dVar pi :: Dif Expr)) < 1322739323 117054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin pi~~,1 * cos pi~~,1 * (1 * negate (sin pi))~~,1 * (1 * (1 * negate (co... < 1322739340 885996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map val $ iterate df (sin (dVar pi :: Dif Expr)) < 1322739341 755285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin pi,1 * cos pi,1 * (1 * negate (sin pi)),1 * (1 * (1 * negate (cos pi))... < 1322739372 778475 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value, first derivative, second derivative, etc < 1322739435 630466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322739576 456157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map val $ iterate df (sin (dVar x)) < 1322739577 305765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin x,1 * cos x,1 * (1 * negate (sin x)),1 * (1 * (1 * negate (cos x))),1 ... < 1322739784 563507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (x^3 + x^2 + x + 5) < 1322739785 348786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322739785 529289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322739798 633781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be better if it printed [sin x,cos x,negate (sin x),negate (cos x),sin x,cos x,even you,should be,able to,figure it,out by,now,...] < 1322739805 979753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let loly = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (x^3 + x^2 + x + 5) < 1322739806 749425 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322739807 323480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322739815 462354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: asshole :P < 1322739823 959797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I agree. < 1322739828 197443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS PREVIOUSLY < 1322739843 906777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin x * sin x) + (cos x * cos x) < 1322739844 750863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : sin x * sin x + cos x * cos x < 1322739848 339809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :About making the bot more of an asshole? Yes, I think it would fit in better here. < 1322739870 580805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> (sin a * sin a) + (cos a * cos a)) x < 1322739871 407928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x * sin x + sin x * (1 * cos x) + (1 * negate (sin x) * cos x + cos... < 1322739898 639631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (y^3 + y^2 + y + 5) < 1322739899 542730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x * x + x * x + x + 5,(1 * x + x * 1) * x + x * x * 1 + (1 * x + x * 1... < 1322739906 368477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross/ < 1322739917 214463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (y^2 + y + 5) < 1322739918 102165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x + x + 5,1 * x + x * 1 + 1,1 * 1 + 1 * 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... < 1322740140 48338 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those are so begging for a Mathematica FullSimplify[]. < 1322740149 652747 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "FoolSimplify", as we tend to call it. < 1322740152 195707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, tended. < 1322740203 803792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) = dVar x in nDerivs < 1322740204 590744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `=' < 1322740211 875966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs < 1322740212 681037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (Num a, Num a1) => (Dif a -> Dif a1) -> a -> Int < 1322740235 786939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) < 1322740236 639382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> Int < 1322740242 999162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) < 1322740245 433495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> GHC.Types.Int) < 1322740245 612557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fro... < 1322740250 827845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322740263 197668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) 5 < 1322740264 723788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322740270 541031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) 0 < 1322740271 992896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322740279 812309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might not be accurate when you pass 0 :P < 1322740299 58992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) 1 < 1322740300 555944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322740337 54563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0 :: Expr) == 0 < 1322740337 889400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322740369 847124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) < 1322740371 334396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322740374 165894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1322740380 918548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let nDerivs f = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) < 1322740381 961080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322740388 210242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (^3) < 1322740389 698646 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1322740393 540639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs sin < 1322740397 247295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322740475 294079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (const 1) < 1322740476 787045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1322740482 119001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322740513 888825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate df (const 1 (dVar x)) < 1322740514 771613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~... < 1322740525 401265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1322740539 819164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I want it to count the first 0. < 1322740702 228589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no... < 1322740705 459736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right. < 1322740710 814159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefinee < 1322740711 991109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322740715 933440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unlet < 1322740716 731524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322740717 215052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@halp < 1322740717 397613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322740729 997236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help undefine < 1322740730 176809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefine. Reset evaluator local bindings < 1322740755 649052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let nDerivs f = length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) < 1322740756 457432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322740763 333216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (const 2) < 1322740764 851508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322740766 532303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better. < 1322740774 581514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (^2) < 1322740776 29990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1322741700 962406 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let (++) = mappend < 1322741701 487627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :3:0: < 1322741701 667262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Multiple declarations of `L.++' < 1322741701 667432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Declared at: .L.hs:97... < 1322741706 12958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (++) < 1322741706 778222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (m -> m -> m) < 1322741706 957627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1322741711 636770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (++) < 1322741712 459863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m < 1322741726 859119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t nDerivs < 1322741727 677848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => (Dif Expr -> Dif a) -> Int < 1322741859 482765 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322742252 766869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322743212 915337 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322744528 142276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322744804 896971 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322745132 858075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322745222 599463 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322745232 483120 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm staying up to solve this http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/15b436de1f9107f3778aad525e5d0b20.js my life is interesting < 1322745275 317292 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322745782 220259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322746634 475094 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322746644 73142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322747091 182090 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1322747295 820249 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1322747307 280501 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you, boily? < 1322747438 61427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322747488 117975 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Phantom_Hoover < 1322747898 993125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322747929 196092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322748511 725100 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once, I was in a hotel, they required keycards for the elevator but I didn't have any so I went to the top floor by stairs and knocked on the door (it is my hotel room, but some other people too, and they had the keycard). And if any hotel has elevator that requires a keycard and then you only go to your floor, then it makes it less secure than one that does not require a keycard < 1322748750 191307 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once, I was in a hotel, booked under the name of "random" < 1322748972 826726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322749456 919635 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite often the doors in the stairwell that lead to the actual floors also require a keycard. < 1322749573 877903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I worked at a place where you would get trapped in the stairwell if you forgot your card; the door from the offices to the stairs could be opened with a button from the inside, but the exit door at the bottom required a card always. I have a vague feeling that's against all kinds of emergency exit rules and whatnot. < 1322749614 190908 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally those things are always constructed so that if you forget the key, you can at least exit the building. < 1322749628 592717 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then freeze to death outside, but that's not relevant.) < 1322749666 783139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the place I was in, a keycard was not required to open the doors in the stairwell. < 1322749743 20851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322750853 891522 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, I am become join spam. < 1322750899 228712 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Any spammy, useless messages for me? < 1322750962 566800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it december help < 1322750969 96544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011, we hardly knew ye. < 1322750993 314787 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dungeons of Dredmor just crashed < 1322751078 962272 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it print out "Suddenly, the dungeon collapses" too? < 1322751810 280223 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can I not access this? http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/encouraging_next_generation_hackers_part_1_raspberry_pi_25_computer < 1322752328 982511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: linux? < 1322752334 667843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: and segfault? < 1322752337 141216 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes < 1322752346 678150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe, what do they look like? < 1322752349 775852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if so there is a patch to the data files that might help (helped for me). Let me find the link < 1322752416 334584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://community.gaslampgames.com/threads/statue-of-inconsequentia-crash.1318/ (for me it happened when changing dungeon level) < 1322752439 35245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a patch a bit down < 1322752446 833609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post #4) < 1322752478 59060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does it print out "Suddenly, the dungeon collapses" too? <-- for me it just plain segfaulted < 1322753019 607296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, the dungeon segfaults! < 1322753424 26810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I apparently didn't have the network package installed. < 1322753428 885460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows you how much Haskell I've been programming.. < 1322753468 696737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I still get these really weird linker errors from importing Network.Socket < 1322753472 393088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what's up with that. < 1322753784 703567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else find Network.Socket a little cumbersome? < 1322753875 445840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did it work? < 1322753906 727266 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find the install directory.. < 1322753968 671818 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1322753977 355961 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322754314 547405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shopping for a Dyson DC25 Ball All-Floors Upright Vacuum Cleaner might not appear like a big deal, however it does require a bit of planning." < 1322754354 442888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha: "Probably you aspire to realize what is certainly my favourite [http://google.com internet search engine]." < 1322754360 62043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spambots spamming Google are back again < 1322754393 435540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, advertising Google) < 1322755427 299819 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322755945 293761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322755984 679029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:05: Just noticed my email in my account settings was 0.034064395384923 I asume that was the issue. < 1322755986 792896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context? < 1322756001 851921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the phpBB gone mad < 1322756008 879097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1322756015 830139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out how that could possibly work < 1322756023 669377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it changed all the posts into md5 hashes, it apparently changed email addresses into (double-precision, by the look of it) floating point numbers < 1322756045 636644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's unclear what they're md5 hashes /of/, btw; kind-of hard to reverse them) < 1322756048 815899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322756053 314887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try googling them? < 1322756059 499583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked one at random, no results < 1322756062 438829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't google any others < 1322756132 713583 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1322756138 721850 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I get an email sent to all employees < 1322756150 451020 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322756170 284602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you are an employee < 1322756207 318521 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-192-37.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322756297 899621 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-247-194.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322756307 827245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending an email to all employees would be impressive < 1322756318 620927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like sending an email to every internet user, just slightly less global < 1322756318 810831 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I pay them. < 1322756336 161649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably sending an email to absolutely everyone would be the easiest way to accomplish an "email-all-employees" requirement < 1322756340 371565 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(them being the university) < 1322756370 953756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be fun to try < 1322756549 494779 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You'd also need to get them all email addresses < 1322756567 166470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's trivial < 1322756570 507927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA, IN HWN AGAIN < 1322756574 531723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending them their logins would be the hard part < 1322756607 731091 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not just make an email address for everyone? < 1322756632 129562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix . (++) $ "hi" < 1322756633 590043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi... < 1322756634 252881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's what I was implying < 1322756645 420263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, github's language detection is rather imperfect < 1322756650 436737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part being, giving everyone access to their account < 1322756661 149910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just let everyone access every account < 1322756669 245887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef USE_DIRECT3D < 1322756669 435995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT); < 1322756669 436107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1322756673 57177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems so very wrong < 1322756676 459041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D < 1322756676 747390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then how is it an account specific to the person? < 1322756686 899280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: awesome, please give more context < 1322756688 296875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nobody would stop calling personal email just because there's a backdoor! < 1322756696 352788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't. Darwinia source code. < 1322756697 966490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they might claim it's a /bad/ personal email service, though < 1322756703 225294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, not in the code itself < 1322756713 86464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as to why that's written < 1322756729 88932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing that there's some sort of OpenGL/Direct3D wrapper that can call either, and is based on OpenGL function names) < 1322756738 456855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I gave up getting darwinia to compile... Linux implementation files are way out of date with shared headers (like when there is foo_win.cpp and foo_sdl.cpp) < 1322756747 709887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but as to why that's written <-- don't know yet < 1322756762 54993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I bet AII compiles perfectly on Linux. < 1322756774 967055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: give me the source right now then < 1322756787 428740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody can do that; light speed, dude. < 1322756798 795529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well within 10 minutes < 1322756801 8328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even access Darwinia's code instantly. < 1322756804 799907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fixify f = fix . f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322756805 552185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (f (a -> a) -> f a) < 1322756805 739539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1322756809 326511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let fixify f = fix . f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322756810 163514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (Functor f) => f (a -> a) -> f a < 1322756817 5644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, so if it's bigger than you can download in 10 minutes it doesn't count? < 1322756843 130202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no to the start of downloading. I expect the rest within at most a few days < 1322756850 320096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything more is just silly < 1322756863 601947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I refuse to let my reputation depend on the reliability of your internet connection < 1322756869 234499 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Functor f) = < 1322756869 431572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1322756869 618418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Functor f) = < 1322756869 806323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1322756875 169071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Functor f) => f (a -> a) < 1322756875 374377 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhereBut :: GenericQ Bool -> GenericT -> GenericT < 1322756875 564189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases unGQ :: GenericQ' r -> GenericQ r < 1322756875 753338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Twins gzipWithT :: GenericQ (GenericT) -> GenericQ (GenericT) < 1322756880 324549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: impossible < 1322756889 344600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322756894 701715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor provides no way to get an f a for any a < 1322756904 342642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without already having an f b and a (b -> a), ofc < 1322756908 972910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pure id < 1322756909 803184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => f (a -> a) < 1322756997 823426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well obviously it's not unpossible because I just used 3 functions that satisfy that type. I assume you mean it's impossible to generally do that. < 1322757028 678900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there seem to be no such wrappers < 1322757033 50871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no value foo :: (Functor f) => f (a -> a) < 1322757035 853871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoogling for functions I could fixify as above. < 1322757038 421534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just makes no sense < 1322757042 743764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they'd probably be in a third-party library < 1322757044 816197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your type was (Functor f) => f (a -> a) -> f a < 1322757050 283078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well I looked in lib/ < 1322757051 575662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1322757056 2883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a typo for ifndef, I guess < 1322757061 347825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway, that's just because lambdabot (.) = fmap < 1322757070 628506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. < 1322757077 623217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it, or the d3d version wouldn't even compile with the typo in, so it'd have been caught easily < 1322757092 104050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, maybe the Direct3D version just uses OpenGL for some things? < 1322757113 208266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let fixify f = fix Prelude.. f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322757114 97815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (a -> a1 -> a1) -> a -> a1 < 1322757118 47668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arguable, considering the code doesn't compile on linux in the first place < 1322757121 118574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maaybe. But I'm pretty sure that mixing them is in general a bad idea and unlikely to work < 1322757136 106759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd have happened on every platform, unless that bit's Linux-specific too < 1322757144 144527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was shared < 1322757144 778560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @hoogle @type let fixify f = fix Prelude.. f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322757145 820645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.IntMap fold :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b < 1322757146 4147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap foldr :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b < 1322757146 4244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap foldr' :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b < 1322757153 487467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: USE_DIRECT3D would not be set on Linux < 1322757163 561973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was in the classical software raytrace loading screen of darwinia < 1322757166 79767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just saying that the code obviously has errors not in the released binaries for whatever reason < 1322757166 322075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remember that one < 1322757177 53927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1322757185 76663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> a1 -> a1) < 1322757185 480365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude seq :: a -> b -> b < 1322757185 667971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc.Sync par :: a -> b -> b < 1322757185 668061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc par :: a -> b -> b < 1322757200 648840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: flip const < 1322757247 280058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does seq do, and is it something incredibly unhaskellish? < 1322757256 983623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what seq does < 1322757264 801561 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 QUIT :Quit: reconnect < 1322757269 753489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's kind of unhaskellish? < 1322757273 683227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or are on a campaign to wilfully forget as much Haskell as possible :P < 1322757280 697876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the obvious meaning is "force a and return b" < 1322757281 863677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seq _|_ a = _|_; seq a b = b < 1322757286 345407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322757287 730288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not its meaning < 1322757293 981907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(force a and return b) < 1322757297 794087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does break parametricity a bit though < 1322757299 359775 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322757306 541399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not unsalvagably < 1322757309 424549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking "a can't possibly have a side effect, so how would seq be different from flip const" < 1322757320 469838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is that it's an infinite-loop-checker? < 1322757323 290818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have a side effect of sorts. < 1322757331 834530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, it doesn't < 1322757335 623661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ isn't a side-effect < 1322757335 810417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm just trying to work out why it'd be useful < 1322757341 602767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not an infinite loop checker < 1322757345 416428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's _|_ if either argument is bottom < 1322757347 179605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :else the right argument < 1322757361 341584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: forcing the evaluation of a thunk is pretty side-effecty < 1322757367 284715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bottom = infinite loop or exception < 1322757367 928962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there are no thunks < 1322757375 23847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, of course. < 1322757376 745937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: by that definition, beta-reduction is a side-effect < 1322757382 92919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it mutates the thunk in many implementations < 1322757475 103886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it's useful because seq is strict in both of its arguments < 1322757478 363805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it forces a in a context where it would not normally be forced. < 1322757484 735249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to flip const, which is strict in only its latter < 1322757492 312364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "not normally"? plenty of functions are strict in both their arguments < 1322757497 704138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq is just the only polymorphic one < 1322757498 983121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, so in practice it makes the code run faster by being strict? < 1322757502 244007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, those functions do things to their arguments < 1322757506 689625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strictness doesn't always speed up code, but can do in some contexts) < 1322757506 873974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seq only "does things" to one of them. < 1322757514 535086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why you would use it, yes < 1322757521 41148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a common misconception that seq must evaluate its first argument first < 1322757524 85105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not guaranteed at all < 1322757527 208315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC provides pseq for that purpose < 1322757544 409949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can evaluate the second argument, then the first, then return the second, I guess < 1322757546 351889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some people think it /should/ guarantee that, but that breaks even more properties :)) < 1322757553 6003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the only other possible evaluation order < 1322757553 918832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed. and GHC sometimes _does_ do this. < 1322757561 580552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wrong; id is strict in its argument too < 1322757573 578628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... -_- < 1322757575 402152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq "does the same thing| to both its arguments < 1322757576 52708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1322757583 645579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not being purposefully dense, you're just wrong < 1322757613 187460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: under normal Haskell semantics, if you accept two arguments and return the second one, the first one is never evaluated < 1322757616 146299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with seq it is.. < 1322757617 248318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: happy? < 1322757631 496357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: id is irrelevant because it returns its one argument < 1322757642 605164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: actually no, the first one could be evaluated too. but you are still wrong even ignoring that: < 1322757650 944926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you are saying is that (\a b -> b) is not strict in its first argument < 1322757656 413556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322757658 972315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is the only such function that meets your criteria < 1322757660 177362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm saying. < 1322757665 753929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody claimed seq was like (\a b -> b) "but special" < 1322757678 530913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...is it not? < 1322757682 226267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "doing something special" is not a side-effect. < 1322757727 93802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src seq < 1322757727 323531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You untyped fool! < 1322757816 98162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there any observable difference between id being strict and id being lazy? < 1322757819 72473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help where's the part where seq only uses un-side-effectful Haskell code to do what it does. < 1322757823 871118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: id can't possibly be lazy < 1322757836 474894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: similarly, (+) on Int has side-effects, because you can't implement it in Haskell < 1322757841 383338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact -- brace yourself < 1322757845 435541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY PRIMITIVE HAS SIDE-EFFECTS! < 1322757851 384311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, lazy id would do the say thing as strict id, right down to evaluation order < 1322757852 41533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out Haskell is impure because kallisti is an idiot. < 1322757858 443487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is not what I meant. < 1322757861 8192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it wouldn't; there is no lazy id, there are no lazy functions of type (a -> a) < 1322757861 310207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the two are the same < 1322757865 45686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's an incoherent question < 1322757883 71689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen the hardware implementation of call-by-name id? it is quite undeniably lazy < 1322757897 162151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no shit, "lazy" changes meanings in different evaluation orders < 1322757906 482922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322757907 50331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but call-by-name is a valid strategy for Haskell too < 1322757911 68492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: id is still strict in it < 1322757923 243877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: side-effects involve modifying state that is not part of the result of the expression. seq does this. clearly (+) does not do that. < 1322757927 551803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't /observe/ its supposed "laziness" at all < 1322757934 866381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the semantics that matter, not the operations < 1322757935 871609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except with a multimeter, right < 1322757946 28180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: seq DOES NOT MODIFY ANY STATE < 1322757961 719630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement haskell in fucking term rewriting < 1322757964 194669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there is no < 1322757964 945373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable < 1322757965 132972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, I'd say that id is both strict /and/ lazy < 1322757965 688038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :state < 1322757971 787534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: id _|_ = _|_ < 1322757973 182987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Q.E.D. < 1322757987 234033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seq would still be a side-effect in those circumstances. < 1322758001 603338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you do not understand what a side-effect is. < 1322758030 125610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, "lazy id" is always forced instantly; that's why it's the same as being strict < 1322758053 284974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're bringing details like "force" into it that don't exist at this layer < 1322758053 524994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't all unary operators either strict, or ignore their argument, with your definition? < 1322758060 552116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you just have a very weird notion of what a side-effect is. < 1322758063 257983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course < 1322758070 106928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you don't ignore an argument, you force it < 1322758077 430142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322758083 114043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly seq makes an /observable/ difference to the operational semantics of the program that /has nothing to do with its return value/ < 1322758093 649378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I agree with your definition of "strict", but am not convinced it's the opposite of "lazy" < 1322758098 827774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ah! what you mean is that since < 1322758100 164487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq a b < 1322758101 794561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the same as b < 1322758104 246847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq has a side-effect < 1322758106 828717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the same token < 1322758107 319150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+1 < 1322758109 98926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the same as a < 1322758112 601447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, what? < 1322758114 340792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, again (+) on Int has a side-effect! < 1322758116 67302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG! < 1322758118 811417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. I'm sorry, but you're stupid. < 1322758127 234676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but seriously though, you can stop bothering, because you're... wrong < 1322758137 759764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have no idea what you're talking about < 1322758138 267561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322758138 762761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322758150 865990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice strawman though. "oh you actually meant this. now I will demonstrate that what I said is wrong." < 1322758162 47640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, I heard I/O is relevant to the definition of turing completeness < 1322758169 80484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not. < 1322758187 196450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reaaaaaaally? I think I'll argue the issue for a few hours with people who know more about the topic than me < 1322758198 989786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and this is relevant to what we're talking about how? < 1322758209 397652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it basically just sounds like a personal attack to me. how silly. < 1322758218 20656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think your problem is, that seq a b is designed to calculate a value depending on both a and b; the fact that the value is always the same as b, doesn't change the fact that it depends on a < 1322758225 779056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevance is that you should really just drop it before this log becomes more personally embarrassing to you in the future < 1322758228 529799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't intended as an argument < 1322758230 420031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could implement seq on integers as seq i j = (i-i) + j < 1322758248 368535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've occasionally explained seq as just magically knowing the constructors of every data-type < 1322758249 758353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking like < 1322758252 459855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq (A_ ) x = x < 1322758255 566562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq (B _ _) x = x < 1322758256 78093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322758262 565413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*A _ < 1322758266 999786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only reason you think that the generalised seq is side-effecty is that there's no way to get a polymorphic version < 1322758273 494500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of breaks down for functions, but so does seq :) < 1322758285 71838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322758286 826624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seq lets you distinguish _|_ and (const _|_)) < 1322758294 226381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another thing kallisti has been confused about, incidentally) < 1322758296 705991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seq /doesn't/ calculate a value based on a and b though. only b. < 1322758301 805779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes it does < 1322758310 461326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value depends on a by definition < 1322758323 741435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, optimising out the dependency on a, just because the return value isn't affected by it, is wrong < 1322758338 103823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going to call the dependency a side-effect, you have a pretty weird definition of side-effect < 1322758349 56932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with dependency. < 1322758369 155427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how strict is the first argument to seq? does it only go as far as the first constructor, or does it figure out the value "all the way"? < 1322758373 698005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes it does < 1322758379 795126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHNF, like always < 1322758383 114432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does (a+b) go into an infinite loop if either a or b are infinite loops? < 1322758392 797355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (so, to the first constructor or a lambda, basically) < 1322758398 208833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: strictness and laziness has nothing to do with side-effects, first of all. < 1322758400 196547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1322758403 978403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: exactly < 1322758409 267343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why seq isn't side-effectful < 1322758423 253146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just going to keep stating facts rather than actually trying to engage in futile argument.\ < 1322758424 893998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has to do with what is computed and what is returned. < 1322758426 899047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1322758442 211849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I admit that seq still feels a bit non-Haskellish to me, but that's not because of side effects, but because it does weird things to eval order < 1322758453 381141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a lot of people don't like it < 1322758462 413657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and in this case, seq returns b and forced a. this is /precisely/ why you can't simply optimize seq away because it performs a side-effect unrelated to just evaluating b and returning that. < 1322758463 552690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell 1.4 was better < 1322758468 504269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it had class Eval a where seq :: a -> b -> b < 1322758472 481518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e.g. functions weren't an instance < 1322758480 155967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every ADT got an Eval instance for free < 1322758491 173286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was good because fully polymorphic functions didn't get parametricity fucked up < 1322758506 303975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you will never understand why you are wrong until you stop thinking in terms of operations like "forced". < 1322758515 505639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: do you think that (\a b->(b-b)+a)::(Int -> Int -> Int) can be optimised to const::(Int -> Int -> Int)? < 1322758516 504200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two levels: semantics, which do _not_ involve things like "forcing" and "mutation" < 1322758522 766659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implementation, which SOMETIMES INVOLVES MUTATION < 1322758527 19898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like finding misconceptions via binary search < 1322758536 184321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC mutates TONS of things in the process of evaluating COMPLETELY PURE (even seq-less, if you think that matters) expressions < 1322758538 996731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether in someone else's view or mine < 1322758553 232986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does NOT MEAN THOSE EXPRESSIONS MUTATE, the expressions DO NOT HAVE SIDE-EFFECTS < 1322758564 518742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is the last I will say on the matter, unless I decide to be a jerk from the sidelines again < 1322758573 775682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, admittedly, fairly likely. < 1322758589 59717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, no? < 1322758591 598333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure that works in the general case < 1322758596 467870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why not? < 1322758600 95848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (binary search, I mean) < 1322758607 447798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes people are just wrong all the way down < 1322758616 63520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, but you can often narrow it down somewhat < 1322758632 663205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because they don't do the same thing? you're making the assumption that Num obeys any kind of laws. < 1322758644 565250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as b-b == fromIntegral 0 < 1322758651 559943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did you see the ::Int? < 1322758656 620849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no. < 1322758658 589103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm blind. < 1322758669 284303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, in general you couldn't, because of polymorphism < 1322758682 812500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\a b->(b-b)+a) x y < 1322758683 637086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y - y + x < 1322758687 131084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, it /could/ be optimized. it would do the same thing. < 1322758687 875788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected < 1322758694 140267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no it wouldn't < 1322758700 120207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, well, right. < 1322758701 173671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if a is fix id? < 1322758701 475589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness < 1322758711 234457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, would you say that b-b has side effects? < 1322758715 980548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1322758725 69561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if I flip that expression < 1322758738 698057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to (\a b->(a-a)+b)::(Int->Int->Int) < 1322758743 156836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322758744 114479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seq::(Int->Int->Int) < 1322758748 907452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't optimise it to flip const < 1322758759 867183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on your arguments < 1322758763 871460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have never once claimed that seq can be optimized to flip const < 1322758764 147039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no side effects < 1322758769 411848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322758780 683488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: and in this case, seq returns b and forced a. this is /precisely/ why you can't simply optimize seq away because it performs a side-effect unrelated to just evaluating b and returning that. < 1322758781 255561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, the reason it can't is because seq has side-effects... < 1322758785 908404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you claimed that it's because it has side effects < 1322758796 761819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I've given an implementation on the integers that doesn't have side effects < 1322758797 197694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. < 1322758799 754929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet still can't be optimised away < 1322758802 942958 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322758805 812220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay? < 1322758812 330883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are other reasons things can't be optimized. < 1322758819 401255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: agreed < 1322758825 278629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are the reasons that seq can't be optimised < 1322758849 617255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I suppose that this means that in languages like Agda, it's possible for an integer to be lazily positive < 1322758850 964047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh I see what you're saying. < 1322758858 986737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, forced only so far as being positive, rather than to its actual value < 1322758865 233225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because integers actually have type constructors there < 1322758893 85668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I still think seq performs a side-effect, because side-effects are related to computing expressions < 1322758924 169662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering what seq /does/ do if given a function < 1322758929 109763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> seq id 0 < 1322758929 917741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322758938 124351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably just ignores it < 1322758940 906913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> seq (fix id) 0 < 1322758944 616406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322758948 579974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, no < 1322758965 968887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, fix id isn't afunction < 1322758969 41991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a function < 1322758973 208377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1322758973 928178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1322758984 256756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hmm, I suppose that this means that in languages like Agda, it's possible for an integer to be lazily positive < 1322758989 413747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> seq (const $ fix id) 0 < 1322758990 64523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Agda doesn't have _|_ < 1322758990 251489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322758997 273520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the concept of laziness/strictness doesn't exist < 1322759003 112233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, it was a different "this" < 1322759008 99679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I meant in terms of implementation < 1322759013 821490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not user-observable at all < 1322759020 569169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: things are naturally forced in Haskell semantics by being referring to in functions, or being evaluated in some way. so being forced as the result of being used in an expression is not a side-effect. I'm not saying "forcing values is a side-effect" I'm saying "forcing values that you don't use as part of an expression that you return is a side-effect" < 1322759035 528090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does this mean Agda is sub-TC? < 1322759044 672322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, you can't write a program without a proof it terminates?) < 1322759052 58662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nothing is forced in Haskell's semantics. < 1322759062 371548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, the argument a /is/ used, that's the point < 1322759067 922507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not used for anything, but it's still used < 1322759071 527802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Agda is sub-TC, yes. < 1322759076 584436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you turn off the termination checker. < 1322759086 588647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine it being subtracted from itself via a generic magic subtraction operation, that returns 0 if you subtract anything from itself < 1322759121 787405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...it's not relevant to the computed result. in much the same way that the act of writing bytes to a file is irrelevant to the result of writeFile < 1322759127 906121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true < 1322759132 571097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result of writeFile is an IO action < 1322759137 664841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all that action does is write bytes to af ile < 1322759138 975505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a file < 1322759159 473858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writeFile is also referentially transparent, i.e. returns the same action for the same arguments always < 1322759182 322899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, writeFile doesn't have side effects; unsafePerformIO does when given its return value, but writeFile doesn't < 1322759236 260179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one possible implementation of IO actions would be as C programs, wouldn't it? and you could define all the functions returning IO actions, and things like >>= for IO, as operating on those programs < 1322759251 57547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then unsafePerformIO and the runtime would simply run the programs produced < 1322759252 554809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1322759257 126409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'd be quite a bad impl, but it'd be possible) < 1322759280 553268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on that riff: http://conal.net/blog/posts/the-c-language-is-purely-functional (in response to people claiming Haskell is purely-functional) < 1322759299 421148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /another/ elliott? < 1322759308 147501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conal elliott is the more famous elliott < 1322759321 817566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's him and another two elliotts in #haskell at the best of times < 1322759324 249761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not the best of times < 1322759327 75845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one of them is elliottcable < 1322759379 291392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's a little wrong; #undef is a purely functional operation in CPP, because it serves to end a scope, rather than do anything fundamentally side-effecty < 1322759415 389904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, you can use it out of order < 1322759422 721312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? ouch < 1322759427 543460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can... < 1322759433 123242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think you guys have a weird definition of side-effect. < 1322759436 211354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1322759438 605016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a normal one < 1322759440 603875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the normal one is weird. < 1322759451 417780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: your definition is incoherent < 1322759461 643209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes Haskell-even-without-seq side-effectful < 1322759470 495467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you would claim it isn't, but that's because your definition is self-contradictory) < 1322759477 235331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it doesn't < 1322759488 255111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-even-without-seq is side-effectful... < 1322759511 210031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-and-IO < 1322759515 364617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having a baby is often a occasion whenever you must be careful because the outcomes of earning a mistake might be serious." < 1322759522 816427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1322759540 276155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, "pure Haskell without side-effects" has no side-effects, yes. < 1322759548 275801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322759552 209136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kallisti/elliott/ < 1322759553 779008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did you just nickping yourself? < 1322759558 581317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes < 1322759568 756619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, elliott and kallisti must be the same person, it's the only way to explain such a mistake < 1322759574 328685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are. < 1322759576 143644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: indeed it doesn't: unfortunately, your definition makes it so < 1322759580 34808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the only conclusion from that is, that that person is trolling me really heavily) < 1322759595 647872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't realise it, because you don't know what your definition is, because you don't understand it, because you don't understand purity < 1322759606 925142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, because forcing a value as the result of computing it is a side-effect, under my definition, yes? < 1322759614 620646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except it's not, but please explain) < 1322759619 312771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a definition of "same arguments always gives same results", seq is perfectly pure < 1322759625 645158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its result depends only on its arguments a and b < 1322759634 488485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, ais523 has taken the torch of actually attempting to explain to you _why_ you're wrong < 1322759637 607222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which I mean < 1322759640 102270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up < 1322759661 656668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to be fair, I didn't understand at the start of the conversation, I just figured it out pretty quickly < 1322759662 898996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, my claim is not that "forcing a value is a side-effect" < 1322759679 261379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because values are forced all the time when no side-effects are occuring. < 1322759684 481651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, such wonders tend to happen when you start without assuming you're correct :P < 1322759698 677913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is something that I don't find very intuitive < 1322759737 352173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've occasionally wished for Haskelly monads elsewhere (especially for error handling); you could do it in OCaml but you have to lazify everything by hand, which is irritating < 1322759772 263100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where lazifying is the easiest way to make statements into what are effectively Either actions) < 1322759841 429146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but how is... < 1322759860 269767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this action is performed, and is completely irrelevant to the output of the expression" < 1322759863 277021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a side-effect? < 1322759866 432679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"action is performed" < 1322759882 175363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree, as I disagree with the "completely irrelevant" < 1322759884 236140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating a pure value is not an "action" in the side-effectful sense < 1322759892 904277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, you get an infinite loop if a is an infinite loop < 1322759895 208861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, a isn't irrelevant < 1322759901 605797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pinging the wrong person, dude < 1322759911 65658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was disagreeing with where you found the error < 1322759918 372386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm < 1322759919 94094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just disagreeing with a different part. < 1322759929 245169 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322759929 712356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think his statement's wrong even without the "action is performed" part < 1322759944 399752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Were I trying to actually deconstruct kallisti's argument in its entirety, I would have to start by rejecting everything he says, as it is worded in terms of imperative machine operations, not Haskell's pure, timeless semantics. < 1322759958 614278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would almost certainly interpret this as me trolling him with stubbornness. < 1322759961 70008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't. < 1322759971 945692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah okay so forcing a in a `seq` b is not an action, it's just an observable effect of evaluating the expression that has nothing to do with the return value. got it. < 1322759972 187285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hmm, to put it a different way: you seem to think that side-effects are defined in terms of "X happens and is not useful", rather than in terms of "X happens and does something not reflected by the return value Y" < 1322759980 312739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It has to do with the return value. < 1322759987 269852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a is _|_, then the return value is _|_. < 1322760005 356583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you seem to be thinking that I'm thinking the opposite of what I'm thinking, and then go on to describe exactly what I'm thinking to be the thing I should be thinking. < 1322760008 300332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has happened twice now. < 1322760040 498097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, is it sanely possible to add T to a language as well as _|_? < 1322760053 111108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1322760064 231536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, _|_ is the value of every type, I guess T is the value of no type? < 1322760067 411278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your values would be lattice elements, I think < 1322760071 728622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION PRO MATHEMATICIAN < 1322760073 373456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are < 1322760074 643941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm... < 1322760078 369232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ordered by well-definedness < 1322760084 651328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ezyang has a long post series about this < 1322760090 811138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that makes sense < 1322760095 208660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's only a semilattice in Haskell < 1322760105 525619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322760115 965960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can Haskell talk about _|_ in that way... < 1322760122 318234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is a suitable value for use in any context; whereas T is a value which, if a context accepts that, it'll accept anything < 1322760125 699765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: We're not Haskell, we're humans. < 1322760135 849604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's semantics most definitely involve _|_. < 1322760152 990374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: in general, _|_ is meaningful, but it's impossible for a computer to always detect its existence < 1322760158 269385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does haskell's semantics involve side-effects? < 1322760162 567102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you get an infinite loop if it's there, but can't) < 1322760186 609684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1322760195 21435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, although the description of how IO is executed does. < 1322760200 312777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1322760221 420736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ghc can detect a few trivial instances of _|_ existing < 1322760224 704120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 / 0 < 1322760224 924900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Note that there is a function which causes the evaluation of its first argument when forced, but does _not_ return _|_ when the first argument is _|_. < 1322760225 525761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1322760230 609391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1::Int / 0 < 1322760231 368201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Only unit numeric type pattern is valid < 1322760240 862153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1::Int) / 0 < 1322760241 677329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1322760241 862523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1322760251 754439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1::Int) / (0::Int) < 1322760252 540235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1322760252 726192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1322760253 64526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That function is "start evaluating the first argument in another thread, and return the second immediately" (it is only distinguishable from flip const when talking about operations, not semantics). < 1322760256 133915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: AKA par. < 1322760261 67932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It is also completely pure and has no side-effects. < 1322760266 926254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about... operational semantics? < 1322760268 878774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1::Int) < 1322760269 578858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322760280 777949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, division isn't defined on the integers in Haskell < 1322760285 147285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that… makes a lot of sense, actually < 1322760291 224103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So if you think the return value matters as to whether something has a "side-effect", you're wrong. < 1322760294 685219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: `div` < 1322760299 358813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `div` 0 < 1322760300 118793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t div < 1322760300 302849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: divide by zero < 1322760300 885487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1322760310 697100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and I was thinking that "integer division" quite possibly was < 1322760318 844417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t quot < 1322760319 689467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1322760322 964930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, that's a _|_ that was caught by the compiler, as it's a pretty easy one to catch < 1322760326 131079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `quot `0 < 1322760326 889306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: divide by zero < 1322760350 375027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering what split-complex numbers are used for < 1322760353 343455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N.B. there are actually semantics given to Haskell's _|_s to explain exceptions < 1322760364 336944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: question: is a guaranteed to evaluate before seq returns? < 1322760380 766054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean exceptions are the reason that _|_ is part of the semantics rather than inferred from it? < 1322760385 135385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Mu. < 1322760386 937538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely convinced I've parsed your line correctly < 1322760390 630430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're talking about operations again. < 1322760393 511865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1322760402 386825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just mean that we don't say exceptions work because the compiler magically realised _|_ was there < 1322760405 483301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: operations seem particularly relevant to side-effects. < 1322760414 48221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OTOH, the semantics for exceptions are really kind of gnarly, so we ignore them when not talking about exceptions :P < 1322760418 17953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322760424 505339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yep, good thing there are no side-effects nivolved < 1322760425 853741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you can't catch an exception in Haskell? < 1322760433 750684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd be pretty surprised if you could, all things considered) < 1322760437 407950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course you can < 1322760438 294525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but Haskell surprises me a lot) < 1322760439 878321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd be useless otherwise < 1322760443 526657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ouch < 1322760450 246442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.catch < 1322760451 274119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a e. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => IO a -> (e -> IO a) -> IO a < 1322760452 194434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the denotational semantics, sure. but in the operational semantics... yes? < 1322760462 107209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.throw < 1322760462 891196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall e a. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => e -> a < 1322760463 619186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.throwIO < 1322760464 517040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall e a. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => e -> IO a < 1322760473 769809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: haskell has no mandatory operational semantics < 1322760482 818146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementations can do what they will. < 1322760489 676358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an implementation proves the first argument to seq always terminates, it can discard it. < 1322760493 70698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, catch is an IO action? that makes a lot of sense too < 1322760517 591925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *a function taking an IO action and a function taking an exception and returning an IO action, and returning an IO action < 1322760518 505847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1322760536 753366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I knew I was going to get a correction like that < 1322760546 153498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said that a given try…catch block is an IO action < 1322760554 932273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I'm done pressing the issue. < 1322760568 158391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which is not the same thing as realising you're wrong, I presume? < 1322760577 882474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this conversation has been enlightening. but no, I don't think I'm wrong on this one. < 1322760585 293199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are < 1322760592 808980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I do understand your perspective now. so cool. < 1322760608 346904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1322760609 469651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perspective < 1322760614 322514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally objectively correct < 1322760625 880154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't find a single person who knows their shit who will agree with you < 1322760640 270132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. < 1322760675 74101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. you alone will be correct in your tower of oh shit, somehow I'm a haskell expert by pure chance < 1322760679 103185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to be fair, I'm not sure that the concept that kallisti calls "side-effect" is useless, but I'm not sure how easy it is to define < 1322760682 224907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Prelude Control.Exception> catch (print (1 `div` 0)) (\e -> putStrLn $ "Exception: " ++ show (e::SomeException)) < 1322760682 412289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception: divide by zero < 1322760684 650967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it needs a better name < 1322760709 955326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the IO action was the bit I missed when thinking through it < 1322760711 467557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott: my concept involves operations. (aka what actually happens when you implement things) < 1322760717 854747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell exceptions are interesting even then because of laziness and and ambiguity < 1322760723 534967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having it as an IO action means that it makes sense to say when it happens < 1322760731 291808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (1 `div` 0) + undefined -- which exception does this throw? < 1322760733 614989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide by 0, or undefined? < 1322760735 190154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives enough context to know how to catch it < 1322760745 682496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on the impl, I guess < 1322760755 278537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, it's actually formally ambiguous < 1322760762 646932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose an implementation could give guarantees, but it wouldn't /want/ to < 1322760772 762118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's basically the reason exception-catching is in IO < 1322760778 346237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for that, it would be pure < 1322760784 193961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant unspecified, not impl-defined < 1322760787 565547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322760823 117364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Prelude Control.Exception> catch (evaluate [1,2,undefined] >> return ()) (\e -> putStrLn $ "Exception: " ++ show (e::SomeException)) < 1322760823 303910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Exception> < 1322760830 468036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think if catch were pure, and just caught the existence of an exception rather than a specific exception, you'd need to be careful with seq and similar things to make sure that the exception happened inside the catch rather than outside < 1322760833 23567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Exception> catch (evaluate (undefined :: [Int]) >> return ()) (\e -> putStrLn $ "Exception: " ++ show (e::SomeException)) < 1322760833 206205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1322760865 733611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, evaluate only forced it one level < 1322760871 960963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(evaluate is just (\a -> a `seq` return a), except with some extra magic) < 1322760878 82377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that evaluate undefined `seq` () === ()) < 1322760887 221643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first case didn't exception because it never cared about the elements of the list, just that it had a head and a tail < 1322760887 408842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the evaluation only happens when you /execute/ the action) < 1322760906 559747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've basically come to the conclusion that I'm talking about something completely different. So it's not so much that I think I've PROVED EVERYONE WRONG. it's just that those people being right and me being right are irrelative < 1322760915 476062 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322760920 918559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is ofc perfectly meaningful as an IO action, because the whole point of IO actions is that they happen at a particular time < 1322760935 74820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yoru concept is self-contradictory, so it's gonna need a hell of a lot of reworking to make sense. < 1322760949 928586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the point is that they have side-effects < 1322760956 3784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the same IO action can execute at ten different times, or none < 1322760967 331832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1322760977 928690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each time it's executed, you can say when < 1322760987 592664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point, even more than having side-effects, is that they execute in order < 1322760996 382641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the side-effects are useful in practice ;) < 1322761006 719948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO would be useful even if the universe were pure < 1322761011 336946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't found the contradiction. If you have it I'd like to see, but I doubt you have the patience to go down that route. < 1322761055 619838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, I still haven't figured out how to do IO-style things meaningfully in Feather; the problem's not evaluation order, as that's trivially defined, but other problems) < 1322761086 819204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's possible to create a temporal monad that keeps track of meta-time, and it's probably a useful concept, but I want to avoid it if possible) < 1322761101 929166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially as it breaks the purity of the language) < 1322761286 46491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem with seq _|_ b = _|_; seq a b = b is that there's no computer that can actually do that. < 1322761298 182167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, when you're talking about operational semantics, is relevant. < 1322761299 751738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is < 1322761306 290989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer does that when I use seq < 1322761307 898866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1322761313 802086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never claimed to be talking about operational semantics at the start of this < 1322761317 580136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said seq has side-effects < 1322761319 180480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really uh < 1322761322 420293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up about this, you're wrong < 1322761381 847811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't realize that's what I was talking about until it became apparent that we were talking about different definitions of side-effect. < 1322761402 935208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761411 315706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761426 194425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: correct. < 1322761534 548313 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761534 736255 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761534 736441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322761536 985490 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322761538 301661 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it < 1322761541 498569 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :742) right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761544 842457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 742 < 1322761547 982016 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761554 618273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I might like it more with just that line < 1322761556 10005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though :P < 1322761568 267677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761570 671790 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :742) right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761573 641575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clap < 1322761578 761900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322761578 942826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 2h 56m 28s ago: A spammy, useless message. < 1322761590 903256 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM < 1322761591 87131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322761595 516512 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie FRIED EGGS AND SPAM < 1322761595 697386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322761816 969716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does side-effect have a formal definition? < 1322761853 686657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :referential transparency is a good one. < 1322762008 174915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It blew up the moon, but no value accessible thru my references has changed. < 1322762042 409396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they're equivalent (aka referential transparency <-> no side-effects ) < 1322762052 557990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, I don't think they're related in that way < 1322762054 202931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not equivalent < 1322762061 47122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322762063 439835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but eventually you call it so much that the computer explodes. < 1322762067 468112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And THEN it stops giving the same results. < 1322762098 864105 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This function, on certain inputs, will take more time than the shelf life of the processor. Therefore it has side effects. < 1322762111 335230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: TOTESg < 1322762127 540626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't actually think referential transparency by itself = purity, and especially not "referential transparency on some hardware", but it's a start :P) < 1322762170 396466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.27.7800 This is apparently the most popular definition. < 1322762182 820240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves popular things. < 1322762213 705326 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This paper should have the subtitle "Baby Don't Hurt Me" < 1322762239 835449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stretching things a bit :P < 1322762257 656915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AND YET IT IS NOW STUCK IN YOUR HEAD < 1322762270 368349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What is the point of turning into a tortured What Is Love reference, even if it doesn't fit at all? < 1322762272 991889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BABY DON'T HURT ME < 1322762274 74533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T HURT ME < 1322762275 112488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MO' < 1322762281 2078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wins you're welcome. < 1322762302 241347 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1322762345 737619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that reminds me of Dan Ghica doing things like calling fork() in callbacks in order to break other people's proven security properties < 1322762355 577866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322762379 927859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because their formal model didn't allow for /that/ sort of side effect < 1322762482 854167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all programs are the side-effect of me (or my computer) creating them. < 1322762492 960648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore: everything is side-effects. < 1322762539 413842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arguably, IO with concurrency should have a different monad to IO without concurrency < 1322762542 131918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're so different < 1322762562 60559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of things might want to take actions in the latter as arguments < 1322762572 425138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with ofc sequentially :: IO a -> ConcIO a) < 1322762577 244830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, indeed < 1322762584 339487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way round too? < 1322762592 966556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a meaningful operation < 1322762595 446467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that defeats the whole point < 1322762603 343648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it lets you fork from within a sequential callback < 1322762604 32654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does crashing my computer as the result of a memory link count as a side-effect? :3 it's certainly not related to the return value. < 1322762617 169701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you'd have to unfork again before returning < 1322762632 480327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm about to miss a bus, so bye everyone; I'll probably be back later < 1322762635 244042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322762639 691364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err? fork :: ConcIO a -> ConcIO ThreadId was the operation I was imagining ConcIO would have < 1322762649 24182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to standard boring stuff on ThreadIds, and MVars < 1322762765 46639 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322762815 315320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322762884 33335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, for some reason hackage isn't responding. < 1322763159 220968 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322763366 817820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Laws: < 1322763366 999397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- pure x = slide (pure x) x < 1322763366 999579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- slide fs f <*> slide xs x = slide (fs <*> xs) (f x) < 1322763369 388557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what good laws! < 1322763402 596191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is known as the "pure slide pure" law < 1322763411 140553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second one is known as the "slide slide slide" law < 1322763430 615634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also double as dance moves. < 1322763481 609745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f g x -> f (g x) x < 1322763481 797789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . liftM2 < 1322763490 963156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f g h x -> f (g x) (h x) < 1322763491 147766 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 < 1322763504 799496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = liftM2 slide pure id < 1322763506 774002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MADE IT BETTER < 1322763512 935019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = slide <$> pure <*> id < 1322763614 736646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obfuscationist! < 1322763688 894580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g < 1322763689 645263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m b)) < 1322763689 829569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M3862060386... < 1322763693 467208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g $ x < 1322763694 313199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322763694 494557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1322763694 494738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322763702 972766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g $ x :: Expr < 1322763703 724191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322763703 904395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1322763703 904581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322763713 925237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g $ x y :: Expr < 1322763714 640437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr -> a' < 1322763714 862630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against infe... < 1322763717 464846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :serpkweroweirowieriowetioweriwet < 1322763746 695491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1322763834 258118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f >>= const g < 1322763834 974806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr (m a), SimpleReflect.FromExpr (m b), Monad m) => m b < 1322763846 168124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= const g $ x < 1322763846 932124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1322763847 119712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a... < 1322763917 58657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322763920 843670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1322763921 23349 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ' only a bit?' more voices were raised. < 1322764062 270790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> "(f " ++ x ++ ")") >>= (\x y -> "(g " ++ x ++ " " ++ y ++ ")") $ "x" < 1322764063 744976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "(g (f x) x)" < 1322764092 823897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = pure >>= slide < 1322764097 174237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^^^ < 1322764106 595366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed. < 1322764315 660737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish hackage would stop being down. < 1322764366 595423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Laws: < 1322764366 780173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip . toZip = toZip . fromZip = id < 1322764366 780351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (pure x) = slide (fromZip (pure x)) x < 1322764366 780469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (toZip (slide fs f) <*> toZip slide xs x) < 1322764366 780574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- = slide (fromZip (toZip fs <*> toZip xs)) (f x) < 1322764369 534925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laws got even better. < 1322764390 266870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell. < 1322764395 97962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I looking at. < 1322764411 430728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromZip . toZip = toZip . fromZip = id < 1322764415 467524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good one < 1322764471 405532 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does fromZip make sense for arbitrary arguments? < 1322764482 262206 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just going by the name) < 1322764490 811913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Applicative (Zip v)) => Space v a | v -> a where < 1322764490 994547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Laws: < 1322764490 994723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip . toZip = toZip . fromZip = id < 1322764490 994834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (pure x) = slide (fromZip (pure x)) x < 1322764490 994941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (toZip (slide fs f) <*> toZip slide xs x) < 1322764491 493943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- = slide (fromZip (toZip fs <*> toZip xs)) (f x) < 1322764493 313121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data Zip v :: * -> * < 1322764495 343159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : toZip :: v -> Zip v a < 1322764497 353724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromZip :: Zip v a -> v < 1322764499 349728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : slide :: v -> a -> v < 1322764505 233218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :used like so: < 1322764506 769257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Two = Two {-# UNPACK #-} !Double {-# UNPACK #-} !Double deriving (Show) < 1322764506 975560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Space Two Double where < 1322764507 834544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data Zip Two a = TwoZ !a !a < 1322764509 371629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : toZip (Two x0 x1) = TwoZ x0 x1 < 1322764511 295043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromZip (TwoZ x0 x1) = Two x0 x1 < 1322764513 310915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : slide (Two _ x1) y = Two x1 y < 1322764515 357985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Functor (Zip Two) where < 1322764517 305227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fmap f (TwoZ x0 x1) = TwoZ (f x0) (f x1) < 1322764519 306164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Applicative (Zip Two) where < 1322764521 338739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pure x = TwoZ x x < 1322764522 216834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.textfiles.com/uploads/2001.txt I have no idea what this is but it says "Monad Hate Barrier" < 1322764523 314271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : TwoZ f0 f1 <*> TwoZ x0 x1 = TwoZ (f0 x0) (f1 x1) < 1322764527 589932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also 159 mentions of the word monad < 1322764551 147057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the numerical dictionary! < 1322764554 812241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing < 1322764572 354734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001.txt 349098 < 1322764573 66629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soren Greenwood's Conspiracy Theory to Explain all Other Conspiracy Theories (January 10, 2001) < 1322764607 454649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hth < 1322764653 994712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow I don't even know how to go about this... < 1322764660 892084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what < 1322764665 38 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about reading this thing. < 1322764684 768491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*This* is Yammer's official position on the subject: our goal at Yammer is to revolutionize the way modern workers collaborate and we'll use whatever tools will allow us to iterate faster on that goal. If Scala is that tool, we'll use Scala; if Java is that tool, we'll use Java; if INTERCAL is that tool, we'll use INTERCAL. (We don't expect to have to use INTERCAL; don't worry.)" < 1322764689 391822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's ais when you need him < 1322764694 81507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: from top to bottom, one presumes < 1322764789 95464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell it's just putting together loose mental associations until everything becomes a conspiracy theory? < 1322764858 342812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever see "monad hate barrier" I know it has something to do with 151... < 1322764871 28537 :derrik_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322764875 708089 :derrik_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1322764914 31011 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322765122 450130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765197 186302 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322765215 878676 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = length . nub $ filterM (const [True, False]) [1 .. abs n] < 1322765216 737451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322765242 874379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map powerOfTwo [1..10] < 1322765244 422672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024] < 1322765254 976994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: behold, the most efficient way to compute powers of two. < 1322765301 753908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the abs. < 1322765315 384665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essential. < 1322765357 369711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ (-2) < 1322765358 99413 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Negative exponent < 1322765363 549292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ** (-2) < 1322765364 406519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.25 < 1322765371 62853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> powerOfTwo -2 < 1322765371 797573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> GHC.Types.Int) < 1322765371 978504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fro... < 1322765375 737572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> powerOfTwo (-2) < 1322765377 218788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322765380 1296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ACCURATE < 1322765423 12775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> powerOfTwo 0 < 1322765424 536871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322765511 138838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:09:19: apparently tunes also uses sidereal time. < 1322765515 659140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GLOGBOT < 1322765515 875547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322765519 934337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*@ask oerjan WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GLOGBOT < 1322765521 588571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GLOGBOT < 1322765521 769135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322765534 324485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = [recip, id] !! (fromEnum (n < 0)) . length . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765535 129340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1322765535 308841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `GHC.List.!!' [infixl 9] and `L..'... < 1322765547 85626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([recip, id] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . length . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765547 878770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1322765548 60180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1322765554 949062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1322765574 643818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([recip, id] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765576 217249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.5,0.25,0.125,6.25e-2,3.125e-2,1.5625e-2,7.8125e-3,3.90625e-3,1.953125e-3... < 1322765579 732111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322765591 244577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765592 719820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2.0,4.0,8.0,16.0,32.0,64.0,128.0,256.0,512.0,1024.0] < 1322765603 332625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1322765622 381299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765623 872437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2.0,4.0,8.0,16.0,32.0,64.0,128.0,256.0,512.0,1024.0] < 1322765624 132187 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765626 704203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... now even twice as good! < 1322765629 886835 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322765645 138914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower -2 < 1322765645 863745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([a] -> [a1]) < 1322765646 42933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1322765650 546389 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in twoPower -2 < 1322765651 342478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a1) < 1322765651 522299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ... < 1322765653 548722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jserjgiuweriuwehriuwheriuhdfiuhweruihweiuhweiruhweriuhwetiuweht < 1322765656 578494 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :too pointy, make it more pointless < 1322765658 848178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765664 37291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in (twoPower -2) < 1322765664 759201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a1) < 1322765664 938578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ... < 1322765667 54728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm afraid < 1322765672 539340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in twoPower (-2) < 1322765673 977663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.25 < 1322765677 12310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear I can program guys. < 1322765693 677636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\n -> ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n]) < 1322765693 919335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap ((. (genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]))) . ([id, recip] !!) . fromEnum . (< 0)) (enumFromTo 1 . abs) < 1322765725 682666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a conditional by indexing a list? how Pythonic < 1322765744 251803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:29:57: pikhq_: I knew they were Christian based but not anti-gay < 1322765748 487218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A#Religious_and_political_views < 1322765756 683156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "*This* is Yammer's official position on the subject: our goal at Yammer is to revolutionize the way modern workers collaborate and we'll use whatever tools will allow us to iterate faster on that goal. If Scala is that tool, we'll use Scala; if Java is that tool, we'll use Java; if INTERCAL is that tool, we'll use INTERCAL. (We don't expect to have to use INTERCAL; don't worry.)" < 1322765756 862615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where's ais when you need him < 1322765780 943718 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765781 397026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't expect them to have to use INTERCAL either < 1322765798 286313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've used that idiom in several languages actually. < 1322765819 376925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: most languages have a perfectly usable ternary < 1322765827 435344 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE LAME < 1322765834 377987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml has if/then/else; I imagine the same works in Haskell < 1322765852 614584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (("kill self", "stay alive")[int(rand(6)) > 0]) < 1322765853 712896 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>deriv powerOfTwo x < 1322765854 983839 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay alive < 1322765858 630523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo x < 1322765859 390982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322765859 570056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322765876 196128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322765888 707809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo = ap ((. (genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]))) . ([id, recip] !!) . fromEnum . (< 0)) (enumFromTo 1 . abs) < 1322765889 562502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322765908 186128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) < 1322765908 936299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum < 1322765909 115129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Dif.Dif Sim... < 1322765923 491848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo 4 < 1322765924 234433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (Data.Number.Dif.Dif a)) < 1322765924 414908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a u... < 1322765941 55117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow amazing < 1322765986 554070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filterM (const [True, False] $ replicate 4 0 < 1322765987 316942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322765992 180818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate 4 0 < 1322765993 638794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16 < 1322766070 424231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322766086 982396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing] in powerOfTwo 4 < 1322766087 727050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `]' < 1322766093 416828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing in powerOfTwo 4 < 1322766094 875151 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16.0 < 1322766098 128138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing in powerOfTwo -4 < 1322766098 872306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.Int -> a) < 1322766099 52812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fro... < 1322766104 820532 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing in powerOfTwo (-4) < 1322766106 294097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.25e-2 < 1322766113 313895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/16 < 1322766114 234217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.25e-2 < 1322766116 729112 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay. < 1322766128 164727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing < 1322766128 649185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :2:0: < 1322766128 831947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Multiple declarations of `L.powerOfTwo' < 1322766129 10842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Declared at: ... < 1322766132 220519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322766133 142439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing < 1322766134 373712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322766143 706901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) < 1322766144 513260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322766144 694185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322766154 601119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t powerOfTwo < 1322766155 408981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => Int -> a < 1322766169 516012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1322766193 462490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t abs < 1322766194 283922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1322766195 870401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t genericReplicate < 1322766196 688619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall i a. (Integral i) => i -> a -> [a] < 1322766196 995126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t repliate . abs < 1322766197 827209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `repliate' < 1322766229 375921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322766245 475547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ genericReplicate (abs n) Nothing < 1322766246 311267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322766258 714858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) < 1322766259 426358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral < 1322766259 605258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Dif.Dif... < 1322766271 439309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked < 1322766287 345161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1322766287 921388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude fromIntegral :: (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1322766288 101976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (^) :: (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a < 1322766288 281035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List genericIndex :: Integral a => [b] -> a -> b < 1322766310 110238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Integral a, Num b) => b -> a < 1322766310 631745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ceiling :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1322766310 811449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude floor :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1322766310 811558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude round :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1322766324 866011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... no < 1322766331 220524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo 5 < 1322766332 364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral (Data.Number.Dif.Dif a)) < 1322766332 180069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1322766347 249574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww. < 1322766381 205289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> round 5 < 1322766381 991032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1322766390 66467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t round 5 < 1322766390 976631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (Integral b) => b < 1322766394 733922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. -_- < 1322766427 312184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322766437 705747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ genericReplicate (abs . floor $ n) Nothing < 1322766438 569267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322766442 954523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo 5 < 1322766444 446710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 < 1322766458 685250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) -- Expr is /totally/ a RealFrac < 1322766459 408294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.RealFrac SimpleReflect.Expr) < 1322766459 587250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a us... < 1322766462 844756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322766516 378434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1322766537 466776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info RealFrac < 1322766537 645822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RealFrac < 1322766541 898623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: ah, thanks. < 1322766544 924337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (deriv powerOfTwo) [-5.5,-5..5] < 1322766546 404660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.... < 1322766559 439401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder where that's happening < 1322766590 453131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your function isn't very... nice. < 1322766592 781761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well calculating the length from replicate just gives you a bunch of 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 ... < 1322766593 491977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a conditional and all. < 1322766622 291632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably why it's zero < 1322766758 705205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you talking about this is definitely the best implementation of the base-2 real-except-actually-integer exponential function < 1322766848 566312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> floor (5 :: Int) < 1322766849 299719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.RealFrac GHC.Types.Int) < 1322766849 478975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ... < 1322766898 533092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1322767258 400480 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let multiply x y = genericLength . concatMap ((const .: genericReplicate) x Nothing) $ replicate y Nothing in multiply 2 5 < 1322767259 948806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1322767333 427943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let multiply x y = genericLength . concatMap ((const .: genericReplicate) x undefined) $ replicate y undefined in multiply 2 5 < 1322767334 921547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1322767365 261545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromIntegral = (`genericReplicate` undefined) < 1322767402 235865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... well < 1322767403 781702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1322767407 345188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works for positive numbers < 1322767444 580909 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322767493 824201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+) = (++); (*) = concatMap . const; < 1322767505 731731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't quite figured out subtraction. this really only works for positive numbers. < 1322767506 274071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1322767521 226358 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (*) = (>>) too, iirc < 1322767521 406617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322767554 134420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ replicate 4 undefined >> replicate 5 undefined < 1322767554 886416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 < 1322767559 391327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, indeed. < 1322767568 923216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would make sense... < 1322767570 357877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because uh... < 1322767577 774544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>) = concatMap . const < 1322767596 506164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t concatMap . const < 1322767597 362215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [b] -> [a] -> [b] < 1322767597 975228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>) < 1322767598 762818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b -> m b < 1322767601 640734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. < 1322767608 246958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for lists... which is the context here. < 1322767611 208177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. < 1322767615 241343 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (^) = mapM . const < 1322767619 212305 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1322767622 963850 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM . const < 1322767623 757088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => m b -> [a] -> m [b] < 1322767640 740973 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm no < 1322767658 563509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well for powers of two I've been using filterM to compute the power set. < 1322767666 134942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: concatMapM? < 1322767717 465476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge: use this scheme to model negative numbers < 1322767739 956418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM_ . const < 1322767740 776266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => m b -> [a] -> m () < 1322767762 709943 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't care about the element type < 1322767776 732390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the element is undefined < 1322767779 912250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapM_ (const [1,2,3]) [1,2] < 1322767780 726559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1322767784 591469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of undefined < 1322767806 90944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1322767806 931380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the instance could be made for [a] instead of [()] or something < 1322767827 285199 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322767855 861349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think this can work at all with negatives < 1322767858 347165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322767859 489380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without drastic changes. < 1322767867 61357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct them with the obvious tuple formation < 1322767869 157704 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you'd think :P < 1322767871 333949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may even be elegant < 1322767935 675704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, you missed the first part. fromIntegral = (`genericReplicate` undefined) < 1322768013 948993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Either [a] [a] could do negatives... but I don't think it would be very pretty. < 1322768045 314299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it suffers from negative zero < 1322768051 278007 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: let n = (replicate n undefined ++) and let -n = drop n < 1322768068 999912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t drop < 1322768069 836202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Int -> [a] -> [a] < 1322768076 612600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :length n yes < 1322768077 152185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ([a],[a]) < 1322768080 717996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) represents a-b < 1322768090 940239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh... nice. < 1322768091 925469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same way you (usually) construct the rationals < 1322768102 776409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t genericDrop < 1322768103 618014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall i a. (Integral i) => i -> [a] -> [a] < 1322768107 46556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the same problem of infinitely many ways to represent any one given number < 1322768115 6995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reduction is easy < 1322768132 895131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless we give it an integral instance. you'd want drop (length n) < 1322768150 787333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty < 1322768155 753424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that isn'tw hat he meant < 1322768159 24688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b means representation of a is b < 1322768174 835235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate a = drop (length (a [])) < 1322768182 256167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind I see... < 1322768183 359031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that fails < 1322768187 320100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can't negate negatives < 1322768196 144005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wouldn't < 1322768199 325580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a -> (replicate n a ++) < 1322768200 316889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be better < 1322768202 661497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you could do like < 1322768206 886284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a False (repeat True) < 1322768211 278949 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: er i was giving the translation from Ints, really < 1322768216 183915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um hmm < 1322768220 997368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 0 [1..] < 1322768221 420593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1322768227 775237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (const (drop 10)) 0 [1..] < 1322768228 694161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35... < 1322768238 600962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\a -> (replicate 10 a ++)) 0 [1..] < 1322768240 117992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,... < 1322768259 855429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc that cheats by using Integer :P) < 1322768303 250710 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you figure out the details ;P < 1322768313 487803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yours _works_ fine. < 1322768340 688366 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that yafgc updates aren't quite as regular as he's used to from his webcomics < 1322768358 302752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if null $ n [undefined] then head $ n LIST_OF_ALL_NATURALS_REPRESENTED_IN_THIS_WAY else drop . length $ n [] < 1322768399 713029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for oots, which was awful of course < 1322768448 307627 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that you're referring to oots's update schedule, and not the content, when you call it "awful" < 1322768457 59986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322768481 100220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't aware that there was any reason to read anything other than homestuck. < 1322768514 476193 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what about #esoteric? < 1322768527 429327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually read #esoteric < 1322768547 761008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /still/ maintain my kallisti = Bjorn comparison < 1322768569 758750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't want to read a book about kallisti < 1322768578 246347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't really get that comparison < 1322768586 508833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you wouldn't < 1322768590 254754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor would Bjorn < 1322768594 744696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude I'm super interesting. < 1322768605 616791 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322768607 2519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a book about me would be amazing < 1322768607 602136 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: regarding my anti-glogbot stance, i was actually using it at the time and somehow managed to think i was using tunes because insane timezones were involved < 1322768611 658513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be the greatest work of literature. < 1322768615 455265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol < 1322768656 962864 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already a book about me, at http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1322768670 711101 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Jokes aside, I have not in fact told my entire life story here) < 1322768700 207768 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, only the embarrassing parts < 1322768702 649301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, there's /more/? < 1322768703 339280 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1322768720 571658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate (-5) undefined < 1322768721 319927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1322768722 946511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322768748 17191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists should go negative-ways < 1322768754 268781 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> drop (-5) [1..] < 1322768755 44306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1322768775 713915 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it actually works as replicate n undefined . drop (-n) < 1322768787 274228 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322768793 977016 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a ++ somewhere < 1322768806 588224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322768828 678728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322768837 709356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not particularly elegant is it? < 1322768843 373875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the representation: yes. the code: no < 1322768854 523169 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to create twosided infinite lists :P < 1322768873 382808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds awesome. < 1322768885 508155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid operation: flipItTurnWays < 1322768917 794465 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not WitherShins? (sp?) < 1322768934 941581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322768939 74460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a joke I'm aware of < 1322768946 467501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipItTurnWays is much better. < 1322768969 316746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i misread that as TurnWise anyway < 1322769087 761436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two-way list things, toInteger = genericLength < 1322769101 181486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as negative lengths would be possible. < 1322769417 753699 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, go read some Discworld < 1322770284 172564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I swear I can program guys. <-- NOOOO, don't program me! < 1322770455 383238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = dVar (var "oerjan") in deriv (\x -> x^2 + 2*x + 1) x < 1322770456 262344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2+oerjan+oerjan~~ < 1322770466 703828 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1322770470 693957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = var "oerjan" in deriv (\x -> x^2 + 2*x + 1) x < 1322770471 526277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2+oerjan+oerjan < 1322770473 500939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1322770483 40382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t dVar < 1322770483 829134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> Dif a < 1322770490 108735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I made a cool thing earlier < 1322770594 746516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) in nDerivs (^2) < 1322770596 168832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1322770638 870564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) in nDerivs sin < 1322770642 579295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322770643 835667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) in nDerivs (const 4) < 1322770645 341471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322770652 88377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ping < 1322770714 853998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just iterate df . f $ dVar x by itself is pretty cool. < 1322770718 945864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, set tabstop=4 < 1322770739 120705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4 spaces = 1 indent, 1 tab = 2 indents? < 1322770746 903963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, 1 tab = 4 wide < 1322770751 666721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate df . (^2) $ dVar (x :: Expr) < 1322770753 173354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x~~,1 * x + x * 1~~,1 * 1 + 1 * 1~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~... < 1322770760 673203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation I set separately with sw=4 (although this is a flaw of vim that it's set like this) < 1322770761 59431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's just broken < 1322770768 660448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map val . iterate df . sin $ dVar (x :: Expr) < 1322770770 146054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin x,1 * cos x,1 * (1 * negate (sin x)),1 * (1 * (1 * negate (cos x))),1 ... < 1322770775 176804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues using his broken editor happily. < 1322770808 904594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it a flaw of vim that it can set tabs and indentations differently? < 1322770825 613941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most editors can do that, to read code in the common indent = 2 spaces, 4 indents = 1 tab format < 1322770833 806173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know it's common because I've seen it in quite a lot of third-party code) < 1322770842 301326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/third-party/GNU/ < 1322770845 470314 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, should I use emacs from the console or is a more graphical emacs acceptable? < 1322770847 678988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-spaces is not common in C outside of GNU code < 1322770855 51978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used, but not very commonly < 1322770865 151979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you use a graphical Emacs, weasels will peck at your face. < 1322770865 966200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: only legitimate hackers use nano on console. < 1322770870 998167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we will consider you inferior. < 1322770874 451115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weasels, that is. < 1322770879 124835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote GNU Tar < 1322770881 552996 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :665) Real Tar is GNU tar. You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. < 1322770963 933647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) < 1322770964 815329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322770971 966005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think 2-char-widths is the most common indentation I've seen for C < 1322770977 866409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether via spaces or mixed space/tab < 1322770983 891728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I see 4 from time to time < 1322770998 114910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and occasionally 8 when someone's used only tabs < 1322771004 854740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is horrid < 1322771029 50287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly this is the most useful piece of Haskell code written, yes? (nDerivs) < 1322771042 389311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's true that if you fudge the numbers with your unpopular opinions, then you can derive incorrect results, yes < 1322771068 501270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, what width would you say code's using if it's indented only with tabs? serious question < 1322771092 884871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you either have to count it as 8, or ignore it altogether as if it's not 8, there's no information about what it's intended to be < 1322771098 258303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, it's indentation-width agnostic. But what matters for statistics is whatever the majority of its authors uses. < 1322771115 289540 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, a tab-width discussion < 1322771120 637721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, what the majority of its readers use < 1322771123 570346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, i'm not giong to let it develop that far < 1322771136 982667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's an indentation-width discussion, which is not quite the same thing < 1322771141 106341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the width of a tab is the width of a tab. < 1322771147 818496 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, ok < 1322771158 357919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm ending it here since this is boring < 1322771159 77255 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322771166 387692 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322771166 567028 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322771167 750388 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file can specify a tab width through a modeline, thereby indicating its indentation width even if it's all just tabs < 1322771185 741721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "\t" < 1322771189 727030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I was thinking about that < 1322771192 360875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: indeed (although the reader is of course not bound to it, it's just to make the developers' job easier) < 1322771195 321294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text " " < 1322771196 819229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but modelines are getting increasingly rare nowadays < 1322771202 372279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: actually i think that shoudln't be used at all < 1322771207 845978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it overrides each developer's individual preference < 1322771210 879653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arguably, if a file is tab-indented, the modeline should say it's tab-indented but not the size of a tab < 1322771234 880433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text . fix $ (' ':) < 1322771247 447734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: text is strict < 1322771250 68115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1322771275 346095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I was looking for statistics but couldn't find them < 1322771293 275565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if mixed spaces/tabs, in C, is more common than pure tabs < 1322771297 4862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be quite close, I imagine < 1322771308 764300 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523: The IOCCC submission page has an "additional authors" option. < 1322771312 517863 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, collab is A-OK. < 1322771313 200541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That term is ambiguous. < 1322771320 39229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, just not public publishing < 1322771324 137187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322771332 333113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *Gregor: < 1322771339 228218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing in the rules forbids public publishing < 1322771340 330885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1322771346 716393 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mixed spaces and tabs is the most universally disliked indentation < 1322771350 480327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They have a page? I thought you were meant to use their tool to generate a file to mail. < 1322771359 959325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, has it changed? there definitely /was/ a rule about using publicly published stuff in a previous year < 1322771365 85955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, there's a submission form nowadys < 1322771365 541991 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're just mixing styles haphazardly all around < 1322771369 612640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's an ambiguous term; I bet ais523 would label tabs-for-indentation, spaces-for-alignment under that < 1322771375 216298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but that's the /reasonable/ way to use tabs < 1322771386 998519 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They appear to have a page, although the page may ultimately just say "OK, give these options to the tool", I haven't gone through the whole process yet. < 1322771391 552269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only tab-based indentation scheme anyone's advocated for years < 1322771421 944962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, I was planning to count tabs-for-indentation, spaces-for-alignment as pure-tabs < 1322771464 15659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are problems, such as if you want comments to line up in a correctly indented version of f(); /* comment */ if(x) { g(); /* comment */ h(); } < 1322771514 142739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322771523 37444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye lambdabot < 1322771537 806197 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I generally dislike alignment < 1322771589 477412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes alignment < 1322771594 161068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION generally doesn't align too, but only because text sucks < 1322771606 426153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty OCD about aligning things properly. < 1322771613 324487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to align multiple lines in ()s unless I can make the parentheses as large as the lines. < 1322771630 153553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: aligning things like assignments is usually Wrong, because you never want to look at it like a table < 1322771634 42190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about things like e.g. < 1322771638 961570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int f(int x, int y, ..., < 1322771643 230976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int z, ...) < 1322771645 861115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for declarations < 1322771646 40401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a Unicode character for flexible indentation < 1322771668 237764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: U+??? ELASTIC TABSTOP? < 1322771668 814992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, that's easy to align correctly < 1322771673 678743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I usually align assignments based on similarity of purpose... < 1322771678 678643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes! < 1322771679 626049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*???? < 1322771688 922728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it easier to read when they're aligned. < 1322771700 105361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that they aren't reducible to a character, I think < 1322771705 642682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1322771706 776187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are < 1322771733 430397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one problem with elastic tabstops is that they force some visual space < 1322771735 501785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can't do < 1322771737 978502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int f(int x, int y, ..., < 1322771738 161114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int z, ...) < 1322771754 931596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to say that tabstops beyond the start of a line should have no space after their previous column < 1322771762 893598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use two spaces before eacht abstop if you want to space inline comments out < 1322771866 682851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but anyway, the tab character works for elastic tabstops as used in code < 1322771881 106019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since alignment should never really be semantically meaningful there, like it would be for a table, it degrades gracefully < 1322771931 189028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is that the viewer would need to recognise it < 1322771946 331070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah; using elastic tabstops to view files with old-style tabs works fine too < 1322771946 899538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I often view code in things that aren't intended specifically for the purpose < 1322771965 219317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs at the beginning of the line still work fine, which is 99% of them < 1322771971 287850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you going to change the entire installbase of everything - browsers, email clients, IRC clients, etc - to interpret tabs as elastic? < 1322771978 956492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't have to? < 1322771984 348256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elastic tabstops gracefully degrade < 1322771999 921567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they don't, they line up the things you're elasticating wrong except at the start of a line < 1322772012 585540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, are too wide at the start of a line < 1322772033 931270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because believe it or not, the vast majority of software currently interprets tabs as 8 regardless of whether you think that's right or not < 1322772101 28196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (a) that doesn't matter much; being slightly uglier but still making sense is the /definition/ of graceful degradation (b) troll < 1322772144 987398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but what I mean is, the vast majority of software in existence has no reason to start interpreting tab as meaning something different < 1322772164 198129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you added it as a new Unicode character, though, they'd start interpreting it correctly over time < 1322772173 658845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha! < 1322772176 523303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they wouldn't < 1322772183 974834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unicode support has got better over time, has it not? < 1322772196 598618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elastic tabstops are algorithmically non-trivial < 1322772208 725177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, kerio's just started up with the ssh fanboyism again < 1322772232 527226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "programmers who have compilers fancy enough to do elastic tabstops" is very niche < 1322772323 711148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OTOH, the whole thing that drives development of most programs is what programmers want < 1322772333 672439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1322772343 389697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm < 1322772346 33985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the falsest things you've ever said < 1322772350 754233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's saying something < 1322772351 192742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :counterexample: Windows < 1322772361 130143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something no programmer wants < 1322772375 209786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I think I may be right if you don't allow for popularity < 1322772381 39315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs are written by programmers < 1322772397 454787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most" over such a large, varied space without some kind of filtering is ridiculous < 1322772558 762433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322772594 152686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322772630 192406 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: :) < 1322772720 174025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322772780 136729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally blocks Flash. < 1322772823 527581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then... < 1322772828 509736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW WILL YOUTUBE? < 1322773030 312183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :through newfangles like html5 video, presumably < 1322773073 531866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouTube doesn't support HTML5 for all videos, I think < 1322773089 577058 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's a way to enable individual flash elements usually < 1322773101 689914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't think of that, I'd ask how elliott would Homestuck < 1322773286 344494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I use a different browser for YouTube (and other video sites) than I do from everything else < 1322773292 127394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the simplest solution < 1322773316 15957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322773328 589034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is having flash on by default really that big of a deal? < 1322773328 781165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are others, of course < 1322773337 914887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also have a third browser, for accessing Google-related sites) < 1322773374 139945 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is clearly the reincarnation of rube goldberg < 1322773375 193645 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well 99% of flash files are just for shitty ads < 1322773386 197792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah see I fix this by not having ads ever. < 1322773404 152305 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :privoxy: making google chrome usable. < 1322773427 897099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I also have a /fourth/ browser for accessing programming language documentation, but that's more about convenience than privacy < 1322773431 644250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IE6, for testing sites in IE6 < 1322773578 797896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use this magical thing called adblock < 1322773744 458994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it isn't magical; understanding it will make it better < 1322773751 803704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I use it to block quite a few things that aren't adverts < 1322773752 78425 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott < 1322773759 548776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a generic annoyance-blocker, for me < 1322773773 423429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the web < 1322773831 670989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how and this whole time I thought it was voodoo < 1322773835 637962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how/wow/ < 1322773851 82820 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote elliott < 1322773852 996069 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :188) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 191) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 200) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! \ 209) Vorpal loves the sodomy. < 1322773869 712035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it basically blocks images or elements by URLs or URL+rules for locating it on a page (ID, etc) < 1322773885 446985 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor Gregor studying in such a fowl place < 1322773885 963502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, you see something that annoys you (particularly an image), you just right-click on it and tell adblock to get rid of it < 1322773905 816212 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what do you _mean_ i used that pun yesterday too?) < 1322773915 415496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, that indirectly reminds me of the day there was an enormous gas odoriser leak < 1322773925 765402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that caused a bit of chaos < 1322773988 967951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know what gas odoriser is, but imagines it's something you add to odorless poisonous gas in order to make it noticable < 1322773999 26842 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would explain the chaos < 1322774012 148343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not poisonous, it's added to methane < 1322774021 975559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because leaked methane is a huge fire risk < 1322774025 407787 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, explosive would work too < 1322774088 129556 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+e < 1322774166 918032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ....WOW REALLY? < 1322774168 436916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAD NO IDEA. < 1322774210 456782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole time I have been using AdBlock and had no clue how it operates, or the features it sports. < 1322774234 821002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I'd love this all to be non-sarcastic, but I can't imagine it is < 1322774284 531812 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole time I have been thinking kallisti only spoke in literally truth < 1322774289 170506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no I really am just as stupid as you think I am. :P < 1322774295 437330 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ly < 1322774374 57842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was under the impression that every statement on IRC was truthfully spoken. < 1322774410 363094 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me too < 1322774424 518517 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking, isn't it < 1322774482 141871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am don't know what think < 1322774504 727150 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also everyone always use perfect grammar < 1322774504 925013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A new study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine said that men who put their penises in animals have a higher likelihood of penis cancer. " < 1322774509 604316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1322774537 913965 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who were the control group < 1322774539 810223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: cause or effect? < 1322774559 600481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: penis cancer increases the chance of bestiality, yes < 1322774567 942359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you suggesting that people who develop penis cancer -- yes < 1322774570 731365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said < 1322774574 562188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not /obviously/ false, right? < 1322774597 729219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A member of a pro-zoophilia group told The Huffington Post by email that the results of the study should prompt people to take precautions, like using a condom, when having sex with animals." < 1322774601 659323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooool < 1322774605 831029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly this must be a proper study so it was obviously double-blind with neither the subject nor the experimenter knowing whether what they were fucking was an animal < 1322774606 136300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1322774618 641908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't cure penis cancer if you do it that way! < 1322774631 630638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, what proportion of each group was female? I think I've noticed a potential skew in the statistics < 1322774654 45836 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely this would have been noticed during peer review < 1322774662 502167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "men who" < 1322774668 363768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1322774669 185385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no no, neither the subject nor the experimenter knew whether they had penis cancer or not < 1322774682 326541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We think that the intense and long-term SWA [sex with animals] practice could produce micro-traumas in the human penile tissue. The genital mucus membranes of animals could have different characteristics from human genitalia, and the animals' secretions are probably different from human fluids. < 1322774688 295588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps animal tissues are less soft than ours, and non-human secretions would be toxic for us." < 1322774700 501513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleasant imagery < 1322774700 912216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately many of the experimentors later died of this, having not received treatment < 1322774716 540622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWA practice < 1322774723 248266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gotta go < 1322774724 882339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :practice my SWAs < 1322774752 410558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perhaps animal tissues are less soft than ours" <-- this is false, see: toilet paper advets < 1322774753 356509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :adverts < 1322774756 659719 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers reading about fruit flies, or something, and I forget the exact details, but the male's semen could become toxic to the females < 1322774761 411574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SWA? < 1322774767 127721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :puppies and koalas have soft tissues too < 1322774768 624186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for: mucus membrane goat vagina chemicals < 1322774771 55574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "We think that the intense and long-term SWA [sex with animals] practice could produce micro-traumas in the human penile tissue. The genital mucus membranes of animals could have different characteristics from human genitalia, and the animals' secretions are probably different from human fluids. < 1322774777 598728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322774789 230038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo remembers reading about fruit flies, or something, and I forget the exact details, but the male's semen could become toxic to the females < 1322774796 596896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo googled for: xxx fruit fly 18 or over < 1322774807 892721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ................ < 1322774813 209575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was such a horrible joke. < 1322774820 247312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1322774821 148728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a horrible joke < 1322774827 732868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruit flies rarely live to 18 < 1322774832 992863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crossed the so-horrible-it's-good coundary < 1322774833 651306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of saying that < 1322774836 473955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes coundary < 1322774839 671122 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that non-human mammals have barbed penises but this would be more a problem for bestial women, obviously < 1322774852 919869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was actually going to make a joke along those lines earlier, but didn't have a good opportunity < 1322774855 639703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not a universal thing < 1322774858 53658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for giving me one < 1322774864 415633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1322774869 192332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know cats in particular have those. < 1322774879 253162 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i vaguely thought nearly all mammals did < 1322774890 842602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas snails copulate by stabbing each other in the neck < 1322774926 450302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some humans. < 1322774930 160980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hmmm maybe < 1322774939 892871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, snail bestality doesn't sound like fun < 1322774952 911437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it's common in mammals anyway < 1322774999 286390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, now I have a huge urge to reference the hedgehog song < 1322775005 679802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will, and see who catches the reference < 1322775021 353277 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i cannot be bothered at all? < 1322775050 30104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, the original was a bit more vulgar, but that's close enough < 1322775064 438547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apparently the lack of a certain gene removes barbed penises and results in larger brains? or something? < 1322775079 178933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was that the reference? < 1322775088 558476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) < 1322775099 827682 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, i only know it from some discworld books where it may have been bowdlerized < 1322775104 711192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1322775127 11386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm referencing the discworld books too, but it almost certainly /was/ bowdlerized in your version < 1322775134 382570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that seems more likely than antibowdlerizing it in mine < 1322775146 861585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.lspace.org/fandom/songs/hedgehogsong.html < 1322775156 987699 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_or_ i may simply have misrembered the words < 1322775163 200922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I take it you searched rather than having the link mesmerized? < 1322775178 795581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My brain actually stores everything in URL form. < 1322775182 238175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance that previous line was < 1322775193 822724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ais523.elliott.i.take.it/you/searched?rather=than&having=the#link,mesmerized < 1322775196 107697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points if you give a link to the logs for that line? < 1322775199 866317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, boring < 1322775200 60204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what mesmerification has to do with it though. < 1322775210 322599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never said they were /useful/ URLs < 1322775312 963168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if that URL is valid, but don't want to click it just in case it is < 1322775315 742733 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: _or_ humans just improved on the bonobo culture by making it less painful < 1322775319 710605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take.it is almost certainly a valid domain < 1322775333 397645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1322775334 535785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 404 < 1322775335 684032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't say much about what it does with subdomains it doesn't recognise < 1322775339 612549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 - Questa pagina non esiste o è stata rinominata < 1322775341 68696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 seems reasonable < 1322775347 383068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take.it is 403 :( < 1322775354 753045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who 403s their homepage? < 1322775358 693290 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonobo-style, we're not their descendants... < 1322775364 612900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides, how do you log in if the homepage is 403?) < 1322775374 41798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you aren't using HTTP auth?) < 1322775381 562541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: log in to /what/? < 1322775388 935130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whatever causes it to stop 403ing < 1322775396 634205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, one presumes < 1322775402 501440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most common 403 reason is lack of auth, isn't it? < 1322775407 572408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322775411 690507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't 403 an important page like a homepage unless there's some way to view it < 1322775414 505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most common 403 reason is someone put 403 there < 1322775418 731490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop people viewing it < 1322775423 934249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a subdirectory that isn't meant to be web-exposed < 1322775433 82339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but that doesn't apply to the homepage itself < 1322775437 478983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like internal files for some web application that exists in the web root < 1322775481 445576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but they're unlikely to be called index.html < 1322775490 83589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: URLS should be graph-based instead of strictly trees. < 1322775501 432545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what that means exactly. < 1322775538 631083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes that is exactly 1 possibility in a set of infinite possibilities < 1322775543 91114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so not very likely < 1322775546 1378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good math < 1322775565 409767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABSTRACTION IS HARD < 1322775584 274827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if the probability really is 1/infinity, the likelihood can still be quite high < 1322775594 453036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CONCRETE IS ALSO HARD < 1322775602 407891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for likelihood, just think probability except that you multiply everything by infinity to get it back into non-infinitesimal units) < 1322775608 642674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it's more complicated than that, but it always is, right?) < 1322775627 841908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..wat < 1322775647 48478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ordinary probabilities add to 1, right? < 1322775648 624267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott isn't asking you to kick me, i'm disappoint < 1322775651 608432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likelihoods integrate to 1 < 1322775662 500182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you just making stuff up < 1322775662 713069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought concrete was more tough than hard < 1322775665 326250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that an actual thing. < 1322775665 814603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1322775674 656302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a perfectly plausible thing < 1322775678 763530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for, say, probability distributions < 1322775683 345703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which return reals < 1322775684 52662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but do people call them likelihoods < 1322775689 661451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chance of getting any particular real is 0 < 1322775690 848873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is just, a... continuous probability distribution. < 1322775705 832797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that name is used for them sometimes; I've heard "probability density" too, but it's a boring name < 1322775750 660323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right well it's meaningless to talk about the probability of a single real in a continuous distribution < 1322775782 293475 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the measure has atoms < 1322775803 29026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/atoms/discrete units/ < 1322775822 279367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well atom is the term usually used in ergodic theory < 1322775834 729364 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably measure theory < 1322775839 680413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :........... < 1322775842 429235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergodic? < 1322775853 538967 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lebesgue space ftw < 1322775854 521074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likelihood_function < 1322775855 34607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously you have to making that up. -googles- oh, no. < 1322775858 399182 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322775872 812405 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :mathematician < 1322775874 947428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ grep -r s2w . < 1322775875 126404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./.bash_history:grep -r map_s2w . < 1322775875 126585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong directory < 1322775884 430710 :mathematician!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope this clears things up < 1322775898 617334 :mathematician!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :flyingdick < 1322775910 873987 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is better thought < 1322775912 533226 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1322775947 527528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1322776003 489502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1322776054 764936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flf < 1322776061 361243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flyingdick: oh my, I didn't realize your credentials. Excuse me for thinking (read: joking about how) ergodic sounds like a made up thing. < 1322776063 586544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f|f|f < 1322776075 745065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha at whatever font you're using < 1322776076 592684 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1322776078 592286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that was deliberate < 1322776079 15482 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lucky i didn't kick you out of here < 1322776081 146410 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1322776084 909109 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just < 1322776086 568032 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1322776092 261488 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no i just need glasses, obviously < 1322776092 589586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why doesn't oklopol have op powers < 1322776093 405851 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopl < 1322776094 879104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way that could go badly < 1322776097 100248 :oklopl!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopol < 1322776101 168601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i was kind of a dick there < 1322776112 783397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :oklopl < 1322776117 549698 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think i should have op powers < 1322776120 332038 :oklopl!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322776124 417868 :oklopl!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1322776130 111865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but seriously though give oklopol op powers < 1322776131 78784 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would kick everyone who doesn't blindly accept everything i say < 1322776145 653376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /msg chanserv #esoteric op oklopol, thanks < 1322776148 414460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if they're right < 1322776148 896283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott just likes to find excuses to kick me indirectly. < 1322776155 965241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would he want to kick you < 1322776161 736212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's.... what < 1322776164 273848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even a question < 1322776177 843098 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322776185 285032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT ELLIOTT DOES. < 1322776186 17126 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322776188 393749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like an axiom. < 1322776197 537309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if there were a typeclass called WantsKick < 1322776200 760001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti is so paranoid < 1322776201 761543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be like < 1322776210 187428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance WantsKick Elliott Kallisti < 1322776213 414132 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wants to kick us and hear the lamentations of our women, that just goes with the evil overlord thing < 1322776223 825123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't _have_ women. < 1322776230 680333 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :details. < 1322776248 289912 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some here do. < 1322776262 526753 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some here are actually _married_, unless they've been lying. < 1322776366 913397 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322776371 239651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd say the pairing graph for #esoteric is mostly edgeless. < 1322776436 296335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the area of graph theory in mathematics, a signed graph is a graph in which each edge has a positive or negative sign. < 1322776439 285152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1322776450 146841 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign this graph, please < 1322776465 541839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... but no zero edge? < 1322776480 873501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GRAPHLANG HAS A ZERO SIGN < 1322776485 598356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... whatever the sign of zero is. < 1322776490 780135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in graph edge form. < 1322776507 480185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :past edge = -, present edge = 0, future edge = + < 1322776509 426231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1322776531 844639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, w2s can go eventually but we need it for now; s2w is used in multiple cases... < 1322776548 496605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really want _two_ functions to do the same thing < 1322776643 444977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought the Haskell slogan was "there's more than one function to do it" < 1322776651 922751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not haskell < 1322776694 767880 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah haskell only has the bare minimum, like map, fmap, (.), liftA, liftM and (<$>). < 1322776706 462397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is (.) like map/fmap? < 1322776718 241980 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (e ->) instance < 1322776721 56109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1322776721 865144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1322776731 423322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless caleskell < 1322776744 754163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calemeriskell < 1322776785 649031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought (.) was function composition; is that a special case of a general definition? < 1322776793 312549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: updelskell < 1322776818 252646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, when have I ever trolled you about updates? < 1322776840 805888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why would you confuse yourself with me? < 1322776844 882961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I am doing the trolling. < 1322776853 646520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eiieojwoiiwoijwoijeoiwjow < 1322776855 773585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322776861 306604 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish I knew why you were doing it < 1322776878 306140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's because I love you. :3 < 1322776880 554835 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's cale's idea of letting lambdabot have generalized versions of standard functions < 1322776888 81402 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (++) < 1322776888 906174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m < 1322776892 183192 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1322776892 998340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1322776906 385788 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: friendship troll < 1322776912 534454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1322776926 440959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ on Monoids disturbs me < 1322776932 965259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322776945 396365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(++) should obviously be generalised to monoids < 1322776946 450117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because the monoid version of ++ is mostly just coincidence that append is the most appropriate operation on lists < 1322776955 856211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, agreed; I just disagree with ++ being the name for that < 1322776963 216895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why < 1322776963 961863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you disagree, and misread my statement < 1322776964 377633 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what it was like in haskell 1.4, i think, or maybe it was MonadPlus. < 1322776964 615915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great. < 1322776972 159254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was MonadPlus < 1322776981 283880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would rather remove (++) and make (<>) the monoid operation < 1322776986 819761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd be fine with that < 1322777003 860391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ could be MonadPlus and <> could be Monoid < 1322777011 534622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1322777015 461440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (++) doesn't inherently mean append. < 1322777019 642067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just two symbols. < 1322777023 214586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1322777032 846353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: MonadPlus needs to go away < 1322777043 145239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml uses @ for list append (and its operators aren't polymorphic), I was interesting that it had a one-char name for something that specific < 1322777049 63362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree, we should have two more of them, and two more Monoids < 1322777056 79302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it's nice to have with MonadZero, which is nice because you don't need a constraint per a < 1322777074 374573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you was interesting? < 1322777078 660196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also n-parameter monoids, for monoids with two type parameters and more. < 1322777084 337152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interested < 1322777093 29386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *you were interesting? < 1322777102 763275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you was definitely interesting < 1322777105 383594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar transformations of bad grammar has rules! < 1322777144 497849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar of bad grammar < 1322777250 718715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *have < 1322777286 435144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, I Muphried myself somewhat there < 1322777295 580942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange, as I mostly don't get caught in Muphry's Law < 1322777301 842928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322777346 702319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, youtube redesigned < 1322777349 397830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's so different < 1322777355 614311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monoid < 1322777357 324364 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are just categories with a single object. < 1322777360 160187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, oops, i was trying to make it incorrect < 1322777389 152229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they've... Facebookitized it. < 1322777394 926718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322777395 418043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what, /again/? < 1322777417 701398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're using a similar layout to what facebookuses < 1322777424 546945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome users: is chrome adblock or adblock plus for chrome better? < 1322777428 67926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can either block youtube video ads? < 1322777444 569127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe adblock plus can < 1322777455 23489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno anything about chrome adblock < 1322777457 947824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adblock plus works fine. < 1322777464 263583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just called "adblock" < 1322777464 745307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes forget the internet has ads. < 1322777475 427474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more popular than adblock plus, though probably only because it's older < 1322777491 802181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc adblock plus is the most popular extension for any browser < 1322777495 190959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wait... < 1322777496 913733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the codebase is different for chrome, so :P < 1322777500 18279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I'm using Adblock apparently < 1322777514 869850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: right. not the same thing, it rides on having a similar name to the unrelated Firefox extension... < 1322777522 467181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adblock Plus is the official port < 1322777527 159204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322777545 992860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which is better. < 1322777552 23341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I just wondered. < 1322777609 815279 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322777642 23081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1322777644 723108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322777647 308452 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did figure out where to put that patch < 1322777650 751247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like adblock plus uses the same filtering engine as the firefox version's < 1322777652 47852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what patch < 1322777659 156566 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Dungeons of Drednor < 1322777687 874736 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dno/dmo/ < 1322777715 408416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reviews for Adblock Plus seem to suggest that it is better < 1322777716 973299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that. < 1322777722 73163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1322777737 883366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, but i thinks it works fine. I have NO adds on any site. and it is still much faster than addblock! adblock (that without plus) slows down every webpage i visit. ABP ist still "the same" like adthwart (only the laughing devil i miss :) )" ;; this person seems too stupid to trust < 1322777739 196634 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6 < 1322777772 73638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it seems better < 1322777773 57451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs < 1322777776 311844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322777787 29732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a good thing you consulted an expert opinion < 1322777793 606080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better against the adds < 1322777817 312814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Block ads inside YouTube videos" yay < 1322777847 427804 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322777880 53750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both more or less use the same filters. < 1322777888 985986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Adblock seems to have more foreign language filters in the checklist < 1322777895 276140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHAINSAW EVERYONE AND CHAINSAW EVERYTHING < 1322777905 251149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i agree, someone op oklopol < 1322777906 903289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: op oklopol < 1322777909 172313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: op oklopol < 1322777938 386604 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well really i deserve ops, i've been here longer than anyone else < 1322777940 343820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just because someone's stupid doesn't mean they're wrong < 1322777972 585913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very true, but they don't seem articulate enough about their technical experience to have judged it correctly < 1322777988 576368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, so if they're right, it's by chance < 1322777991 335451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Sorry, but i thinks it works fine." seems to imply it's a reaction to a negative review, which makes me trust it less < 1322778077 98483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You use vim, right < 1322778084 353786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do indeed < 1322778101 495063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: do you move with vikeys or numpad? < 1322778103 491700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What indentation style do you use < 1322778111 129656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: vim does numpad? < 1322778124 530491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, numpad has arrow keys without numlock < 1322778126 897 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usually arrow keys :> < 1322778128 13743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go diagonally though < 1322778135 115317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the discussion came up in #nethack recently, and someone said they used numpad for vim but vikeys for nethack < 1322778151 198906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322778155 998757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :joking, surely? < 1322778159 378258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: olsner: What indentation style do you use < 1322778173 722675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think so < 1322778188 239762 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use tabs as though there spaces. < 1322778190 886914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was kerio ssh-fanboying about, btw? < 1322778194 148819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so usually 8 tabs per indent < 1322778198 400531 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... sw=4 ts=4 sts=4 noet cinoptions={0,:0,t0,g0,^0,e0,n0,p2s,(2s,f0 cinkeys=0{,0},0),:,0#,!^F,o,O,e < 1322778205 817814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, that was a non-vim question :) < 1322778210 991062 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the relevant part of my vimrc for indentation style < 1322778223 188819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help vim scares me. < 1322778226 569007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim scares me more than emacs. < 1322778230 631299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually know at least one person, probably more, who's a casual vim fanboy (think offhand Emacs-bashing and using vim at every opportunity) yet spends their time moving around with the arrows in insert mode < 1322778251 967024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and asking if there was an ssh port for the amiga, when the topic came up about how good it was at playing nethack < 1322778259 652951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can yell at them for you, if you'd like < 1322778270 941318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic's changed, unfortunately < 1322778274 883116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could yell at him on general principles < 1322778275 62085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1322778275 378047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I actually know at least one person, probably more, who's a casual vim fanboy (think offhand Emacs-bashing and using vim at every opportunity) yet spends their time moving around with the arrows in insert mode < 1322778280 270297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322778282 560832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's real-life knowing < 1322778287 462197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to come to Birmingham < 1322778288 277984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322778289 751044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my condolences < 1322778293 151804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do quite a bit of arrow-moving in Emacs when I probably could avoid it sometimes. < 1322778296 969812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds to "list of reasons to avoid birmingham" < 1322778303 422401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1322778305 442535 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778329 164567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person I have in mind is my other boss (I have two part-time jobs, he's the boss for half the teaching one rather than Dan who's the boss for the other half + the PhD) < 1322778335 854056 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778352 298440 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322778362 266466 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: dredmor time < 1322778384 245614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is Dredmor good enough that I should buy it, I wonder? opinions of the channel? < 1322778386 695763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how much time is left? < 1322778404 357361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and google has once again changed < 1322778415 421610 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never learned what the style is called < 1322778419 339584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I haven't played it yet, but have you played any introversion games? < 1322778423 421959 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the one with braces on their own lines and unindented, tab indented, tabs at 4 spaces (obv. works fine for other tab widths...) < 1322778428 671125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure; probably not < 1322778435 45834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Any alignment? < 1322778437 699055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I've played one without mentally noting the developer, which is possible < 1322778437 878031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Buy it < 1322778438 547199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gross < 1322778449 606842 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I just indent continuations by one or two indents < 1322778455 487117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I prefer the open brace on the same line as the statement < 1322778461 955162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uplink is amazing, Darwinia is meant to be even more amazing but I haven't played it yet, DEFCON is cool < 1322778468 227281 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DID YOU SEND A PAPER TO STACS < 1322778476 343526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't think so < 1322778478 792253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 5 days are left < 1322778492 328796 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322778500 846705 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know stacs? i suppose it might be for more theoretical stuff than yours < 1322778511 325970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, they sent me an email in Markdown, that's almost enough to boycott them < 1322778513 802022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't < 1322778524 209805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, Markdown was intended to be suitable for emails < 1322778528 125975 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778543 700157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but who did? < 1322778548 668930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Humble Bundle < 1322778555 757674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be cool if df allowed you to have more control over how your soldiers fight < 1322778556 873396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and () around URLs is just so ugly < 1322778559 321318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION receives those as HTML mail < 1322778562 405057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe with like... scripts. < 1322778567 568719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why you use the alternate link syntax < 1322778570 136218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple declarative scripts < 1322778575 313183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that one was using []() < 1322778576 223061 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have I answered your question now? :) < 1322778579 356695 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can turn on and off. like "fighting styles" < 1322778583 456658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is /that/ enough of a reason to hate the email? < 1322778584 226094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, unfortuantely it means you're useless < 1322778591 703678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1322778623 99074 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes! he said I'm useless < 1322778660 17768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner you know you alright. < 1322778664 232796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless sounds fun when you pronounce the use as though it were the verb use < 1322778673 705057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yooze instead of yoose. < 1322778690 34243 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also different emphasis < 1322778701 334999 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322778704 770700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I know! < 1322778708 433420 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778713 835281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, seems that Amazon is memorizing my credit card number too < 1322778724 694694 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what use did you hope to have of me? < 1322778726 821214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /addition/ to running no security checks on the card number < 1322778729 186967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well isn't that nice, you don't have to give it to them every time < 1322778732 271482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just /really/ wants everything to be convenient for you doesn't it? < 1322778740 755583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, debit card < 1322778748 37469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you used tabs-for-indentation-spaces-for-alignment and vim < 1322778765 199115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's reasonable from Amazon's point of view, but not from the bank's < 1322778770 596712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use all-spaces, out of habit from my Python days. < 1322778783 484568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fuck the bank. :P < 1322778785 891612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you also don't use vim afaik < 1322778796 328867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what makes vim important here? < 1322778798 903683 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've only seen alignmentism together with fundamentalist spaceism < 1322778809 24485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you don't know < 1322778822 589360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow you have amazing deduction skills. < 1322778919 423944 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I believe it has become DS9 time again < 1322778925 439512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is "alignmentism" kind of like "being really OCD about aligning things"? < 1322778928 723212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm that. < 1322778959 80227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might switch to tabs though. it makes more sense to me. < 1322778975 30565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab-indents with spaces for alignment < 1322778976 330746 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: something like that yes < 1322779000 148268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm also considering boycotting Introversion for making every single image on their webpage set a cookie < 1322779045 6823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh no, not cookies < 1322779063 174638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there is no reason to set a cookie in more than one image from the same domain in a page < 1322779077 229099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it aggravates people who approve/disapprove all cookies manually < 1322779082 344125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too am really concerned about this common nearly unavoidable feature of modern websites. < 1322779092 673152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe you shouldn't do that. that sounds terrible. < 1322779094 873373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: cookies can be useful, when they have a reason to exist < 1322779108 996809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, basically every webpage starts with you clicking a bunch of dialogs right? < 1322779114 293844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only sensible use of setting a cookie in an image that I've seen is Wikimedia's cross-site logon thing, though < 1322779122 324057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: far from every, maybe about 5-10% < 1322779133 22120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them are well-designed cookie-wise, and only require a couple of allow/deny < 1322779154 74403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of sites set two cookies then modify one; I think it's some sort of anti-bot mechanism < 1322779223 458883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, Uplink's premise seems very mindlessly destructive < 1322779233 822383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the Introversion advertising just implies to me "this is not the sort of game ais523 would enjoy" < 1322779247 847527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never once looked at the advertising. < 1322779267 888857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has adblock installed in his brain. < 1322779292 193056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go to the mall, then the people trying to advertise stores just disappear when they start talking to me. < 1322779306 848564 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say only 99% is mindless destruction < 1322779312 16593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't actually go to the mall, but it's happened before) < 1322779321 447864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, Darwinia is one of the best-reviewed games I've ever heard of, if that means anything < 1322779327 484524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322779327 867167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: best game ever is magicka < 1322779334 672542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'd prefer to trust reviewers I trust < 1322779340 532655 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it safe to say that 1% of Uplink is NOT mindless destruction? < 1322779349 529701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought Advance Wars based entirely on the recommendation of Teletext's computer game review column < 1322779355 400189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then went and bought all its sequels < 1322779357 879352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicka is 100% careful deliberate mindless destruction < 1322779360 201735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uplink would be hard to play if you just mindlessly destroyed thinsg. < 1322779367 735475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally people who want files stolen don't want you just to trash a machine. < 1322779378 720645 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm in particular referring to plot < 1322779381 320299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, is it safe to say that 1% of Uplink is NOT mindless destruction? < 1322779400 524401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Umm, not the Arunmor storyline? < 1322779402 107201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is typing. < 1322779405 150275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more than possible to go through the game having never deleted anything, although I think the story does require it. < 1322779411 463178 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was referring to that in particular < 1322779418 198032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Half the plot" = 1% of the game < 1322779445 637425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that the Arunmor storyline requires at least one destructive attack. < 1322779453 28098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't you know that plot is only like 2% of a game? < 1322779474 867867 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there you go. Half the plot, minus a bit, is not mindless destruction < 1322779495 815524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322779503 788546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicka is probably better than uplink < 1322779509 305584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, even if the /idea/ is mindless destruction, the gameplay isn't < 1322779510 53869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base this on my extensive knowlege of uplink < 1322779512 979306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1322779516 331321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no it doesn't. < 1322779562 968563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires that you destroy Arunmor's ISM as a false flag operation, but that's hardly mindless destruction. < 1322779573 969866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH SPOILERS EVERYTHING IS RUINED < 1322779601 440040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, hardly any of Uplink is mindless destruction. < 1322779619 827406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like even Andromeda hire you to FUCK SHIT UP. < 1322779658 365692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah they do, they just think the shit is pernicious. < 1322779725 904683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, Darwinia is extremely good. < 1322779745 392372 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even seem to get started with Darwinia < 1322779755 857381 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sucks at Darwinia. Can barely do the tutorial < 1322779768 444833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't make it through Garden? < 1322779771 993431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1322779788 418488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The level which consists of "create squad, right click until virii are gone." < 1322779810 752462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't ever play starcraft. < 1322779911 804401 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The virii keep killing my squad < 1322779932 71808 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took a while before I worked out that I needed to make a squad < 1322779942 790479 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is easily amused by the Darwinia intros < 1322779948 276042 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, did you know that there are these things called ranged attacks. < 1322779966 919043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use them to pick the virii off before they get near enough to damage your squad. < 1322780022 983386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: real-time strategy? < 1322780037 69689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a mixture, I suppose. < 1322780059 569451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwinian control is RTS, but I still haven't reached the point where that's meant to come in. < 1322780068 107814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just came up with the worst game idea ever: Mario Party MMO < 1322780093 989235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it's kind of a top-down shooter thing? < 1322780133 662925 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that playing Darwinia windowed is not feasible < 1322780212 967377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a mixture with which? < 1322780230 931632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there's a game mode in Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver which is pretty much exactly that < 1322780231 753793 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay wireless headphones < 1322780234 33306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with Pokémon instead < 1322780235 504186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top-down shooter thing. < 1322780249 481982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I managed fine. < 1322780270 224483 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you directly control squads by left clicking on destinations and right clicking to fire. < 1322780302 270514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, like an RTS except requiring more micromanagement < 1322780307 692885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You control Darwinians by promoting one of them to an officer, and controlling that through a similar method to a squad, except all the commands tell the Darwinians where to go. < 1322780331 562327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really; it's designed so you only use one squad at a time. < 1322780356 469894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have autofire, but it's basically useless. < 1322780381 429116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, my TV Tropes links-clicked-per-page rate is now sufficiently below 1 that I can never stay there very long < 1322780418 691695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably the best way to see what the gameplay's like is just to play the first level, which is short and extremely easy if you're not Sgeo. < 1322780427 60819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322780427 414540 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which mode is the mario party mmo? < 1322780428 95985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322780431 217475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd mean downloading and installign and running the game < 1322780440 708670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is there a way to stop vim from creating the .swp files < 1322780444 906970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, I've forgotten what it's called, but it has Poké Floats in it < 1322780447 995243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep getting OMG SWAP FILE when i open a vim < 1322780454 274608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's pretty much exactly how starcraft works. left click to move right click to fire. < 1322780473 188742 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a smash bros stage < 1322780496 90504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know, it's based on the Pokémon game mode (all smash bros stages but final destination are references to /something/) < 1322780531 664352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hanenbow I don't think is a reference to anything in the Nintendo universe. < 1322780539 485052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind of a special stage. < 1322780548 971045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just to nitpick, Battlefield isn't based on anything. < 1322780594 314257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind < 1322780602 559692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hanenbow (pronounced Hay-nin-bow) is a new unlockable stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It comes from a music-themed Nintendo DS game, which features extensive interactivity with the microphone; called Electroplankton. < 1322780618 709979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: found it: Wi-fi Plaza < 1322780628 169585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Wi-Fi_Plaza < 1322780703 895078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I hate booleans < 1322780722 693599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use Maybe () instead? < 1322780739 955606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use const and flip const instead. < 1322780740 431634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322780743 744542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better. < 1322780746 330477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are just church booleans! < 1322780750 873009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN BETTER < 1322780834 204032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, use 1 and 2 then, and make it arbitrary which is true and which is false depending on what you want to use them for < 1322780846 708280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322780850 813628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are all just different representations of booleans ;P < 1322780851 781888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1322780868 214226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, then, use 01XLHWU- < 1322780880 805712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've probably forgotten a possible value there < 1322780882 146261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use Maybe Bool instead < 1322780882 931861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ulimit -v command can be used with ASan-ified binaries. However, you should remember that ASan consumes 16 terabytes of virtual memory for shadow state and the ulimit -v value should be set accordingly." < 1322780893 178377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: three-value logic ftw < 1322780906 661309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or use integers for many-valued logic!!! < 1322780909 721595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: VHDL std_logic beats three-value logic out the water < 1322780925 802506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it models error conditions for booleans as well as the usual values 0 and 1 < 1322780934 108291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Z < 1322780938 105585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01XLHWZU- < 1322780939 555525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1322780941 673585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nine-valued booleans < 1322780945 327395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also unknown < 1322780952 241173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's U, one presumes < 1322780981 774653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite; U means unknown state at power on, - means a value that's being disregarded (i.e. don't know and don't care) < 1322780992 300377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either is a reasonable description of unknown < 1322781071 35995 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any of them mu? < 1322781078 426484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu is a !boolean < 1322781094 49474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you solve the halting problem you can just use terminate and non-terminate < 1322781108 165886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another representation of a boolean! < 1322781115 48144 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, it's not boolean, that's why it's included~ < 1322781123 891866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure I understand what you want to replace booleans with then. < 1322781124 324275 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should be. < 1322781124 503338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: nope, the problem with mu is that it unasks the question, and the hardware equivalent would be sending electrons in the other direction < 1322781136 283852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that typically, electrons flow one way for true and the other way for false < 1322781149 214564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ONLY TYPICALLY!!! < 1322781160 562342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I never even said I wanted to, I just said I hate booleans < 1322781222 269510 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought mu was more just "your question is stupid presumes something that is wrong". < 1322781231 292935 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322781236 963744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your grammar is stupid presumes something that is wrong :D < 1322781240 494870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The most important thing to remember is: Don't Panic. Or at least, panic at your leisure. < 1322781246 595478 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers a post on Less Wrong < 1322781286 984563 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322781292 586408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude I just figured out natural language < 1322781300 974706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you use a clever evaluation strategy. < 1322781316 658375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: "your mom" evaluates to the value "your mom" < 1322781328 555962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can then be composed with other expressions < 1322781340 945995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is annoying < 1322781354 416956 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lesswrong.com/lw/po/three_dialogues_on_identity/ < 1322781362 731921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, should I worry about a duplicate hashtable lookup? < 1322781382 906924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah it's still O(1) < 1322781385 693747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're not using a cryptosecure hash, yes < 1322781392 307242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:P) < 1322781395 8056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're going to get collisions in practice < 1322781405 511806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, wait, what? < 1322781407 308671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK to use an inefficient resolution mechanism unless you have a very small hashtable, though < 1322781421 239594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think anyone uses cryptohashes for hash tables < 1322781427 768165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322781430 216803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you never know, with enough memory/disk space you /could/ < 1322781453 348083 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322781456 265054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure you haven't misread my statement? < 1322781456 586069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for something like git/sg's stores by hash, it makes sense < 1322781459 276826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1322781466 810033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try looking at it again < 1322781478 907838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having difficulty parsing "duplicate hashtable lookup" < 1322781503 989546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka two identical hashtable lookups to do one operation < 1322781641 899028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, I killed the wrong chromium proecss < 1322781764 18137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can recover, right? < 1322781777 445752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was the root one < 1322781830 306173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if Firefox gets accidentally killed, even the whole thing, it can go back to the point it was at upon restart < 1322781842 422142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often with a confirmation in case one of the pages crashes it again < 1322781845 948497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can chrome < 1322781857 925748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I was referring to, I'd be shocked if Chrome couldn't < 1322782030 578868 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322782030 961881 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322782031 140767 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322782100 866820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pls reassure me that hashtable lookups are fast < 1322782114 272770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're almost as fast as array lookups on modern processors < 1322782169 966049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's one, two, three, four, five -- five array lookups in total!! five duplicated array lookups! < 1322782210 937044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, I wouldn't have expected /you/ to reference Sesame Street < 1322782235 650003 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that even aired in the UK? < 1322782238 955289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was recentishly in the news because someone hacked their YouTube channel to show hardcore porn) < 1322782241 753090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed, on Channel 4 < 1322782251 930938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't doing it intentionally, but I think there was some kind of ... subconscious resonant recognition before he hit enter. < 1322782267 4773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually counting them out. < 1322782279 552203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: doesn't sesame street air /everywhere/? (also, "was"?) < 1322782299 236556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if it still airs nowadays in the UK < 1322782302 986228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I haven't checked for years < 1322782364 50653 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Eh, could be. I'm not in the habit of monitoring where children's programming is aired. < 1322782399 923944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* relies on implementation-defined arithmetic shift behaviour */ < 1322782400 102984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I leave comments for things like this but gleefully name new types foo_t < 1322782534 379985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool world_handle_chunk(jint x0, jint y0, jint z0, jint xs, jint ys, jint zs, struct buffer zb, struct buffer zb_meta, struct buffer zb_light_blocks, struct buffer zb_light_sky, bool update_map); < 1322782540 994147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but feel this function needs a few more parameters. < 1322782594 577371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool world_handle_chunk(struct world_handle_chunk_args); There you go. < 1322782594 830215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why is it never called with the last parameter set to false... < 1322782605 259801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's fewer! < 1322782638 184204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can call it with world_handle_chunk((struct world_handle_chunk_args){ ... }) < 1322782650 547132 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pointless unless you want a lot of things to be 0, of course) < 1322783009 350540 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322783149 426537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322783213 570925 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds