< 1322870560 206770 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obviously we don't know about the rest of the system, what you do with the Unix-timestamp-corresponding-to-the-most-recent-Manila-midnight-that-has-already-happened. < 1322870570 377332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (**) < 1322870571 796717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a -> a < 1322870578 10772 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Let's put this vaguely algebraically: Manila = UTC + 8 hours. Now, if you have the UTC time 12:00 and want that in Manila time, you add 8 hours. If you have the Manila time 12:00 and want that in UTC time, you subtract 8 hours (obviously). < 1322870597 292398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: looks like Dagoth-Ur showed up in Arena too < 1322870611 900147 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. That's not quite helping... < 1322870615 423450 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee. < 1322870669 315427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The simplest prose-style explanation I can make for the "clamp to midnight, subtract eight" rule is: "clamp to midnight" represents UTC 00:00:00; after you subtract eight hours, it represents UTC 16:00:00; any UTC 16:00:00 time will be a Manila 00:00:00, because it's UTC+8. < 1322870682 289249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right, that's a bit better. < 1322870692 728694 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: ^ < 1322870698 665516 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I did try that out earlier and it didn't help, so it probably won't now, either. < 1322870741 990917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus are you still explaining counting to myndzi. < 1322870909 222682 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Clearly you are doomed, good night. < 1322870952 743839 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you look at Manila time of 04:00, the corresponding UTC time is 20:00 (subtract eight hours). When you clamp to midnight, you're subtracting 20 hours; so the UTC midnight will be Manila time 04:00-(20 hours) = 08:00. You will need to subtract 8 hours from that to get a midnight in Manila. (But it will be the midnight of the previous day, because you will be subtracting a total of 28 hours.) < 1322871021 311944 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Manila 12:00, corresponding UTC is 04:00. Clamp to midnight means subtracting 4 hours. That UTC midnight is Manila time 08:00. Again, you will need to subtract 8 hours to get a midnight in Manila, and will end up subtracting a total of 12 hours, and you get the midnight of "today" in Manila. < 1322871146 360454 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, any UTC midnight is going to always be 08:00AM in Manila, that's what UTC+8 means. If you want a midnight in Manila, you must subtract eight hours, or add 16. < 1322871216 553143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: *drumroll* < 1322871223 738117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THIS IS EXCITING OKAY) < 1322871254 143275 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing. be patient < 1322871261 614992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1322871284 536458 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to be awake to see how this ends, sadly; it's past 02am here. < 1322871294 819766 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'll be a link for you tomorrow < 1322871295 292603 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322871304 994083 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the frustration i've caused, thank you for your efforts < 1322871309 693777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits eagerly. < 1322871412 741791 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is 02:15AM here in UTC+2. Currently it's 00:15AM in UTC. If you do a "clamp to UTC midnight" operation, you will subtract 15 minutes, so that time in my timezone will be 02:00AM. You'll need to subtract 2 more hours to get a local midnight. Substitute 8 for 2 for Manila. Sorry, couldn't resist.) < 1322871491 265458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322871542 356781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Current Unix timestamp is about 1322871375. 1322871375%86400 = 975, about 16 minutes. If you subtract that from current time, it's about 02am here. You will need to subtract further two hours from the Unix timestamp to get a Unix timestamp value that corresponds to our midnight. Sorry, couldn't resist that either.) < 1322871546 163888 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, seriously. -> < 1322871752 341615 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When the time was "today, 01:00am" here in Finland, it was 23:00 in UTC. If you clamped that timestamp to previous UTC midnight, you'd end up subtracting 23 hours, leading to "yesterday, 02:00am". Then you could subtract two more hours to get a local midnight, but it would be "yesterday, 00:00", a day earlier than you wanted. This might explain the issues you mentioned.) < 1322871758 218253 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously for reals now. -> < 1322871759 589340 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D2AF.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322871987 842371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: I think fizzie is trolling you. < 1322872135 710248 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it was "today, 01:00am" here, and you wanted to round to local midnight, you could (I'm not sure I would): add two hours to the timestamp, so you'd have a Unix timestamp that'd translate to UTC 01:00am; a different instant in time, yet same in local time. Then clamp to UTC midnight, which would end up subtracting the "proper" one hour. Then you would reverse the initial "time zone conversion" by subtracting two hours, and end up with local "today, 00:00", U < 1322872135 887058 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC. That sort of thing would work, though the idea of having Unix timestamps that represent time instants that have the "local time" value when converted-to-display-as-UTC is a bit iffy. But if you're doing something like that, it does work.) < 1322872146 241933 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, maybe some of that stuff might actually help. < 1322872167 677305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, after talk of "timestamps in local time", it's not inconcievable it could be something like that. < 1322872228 733931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hi. < 1322872341 437728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I'm still pretty sure if you just get current time() value, round to previous multiple of 86400, then; (a) subtracting K hours will give a local midnight in the UTC+K timezone, but it could be the "wrong" midnight; and (b) adding K hours will not give a local midnight, assuming K is not 12; at least as long as the resulting value is treated as a real Unix timestamp and converted to local time properly.) < 1322872348 573651 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe I really should go. < 1322872373 452171 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`finger < 1322872375 214977 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: finger: not found < 1322872380 892251 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322872419 475537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "..." even mean? You say it so often. < 1322872449 222826 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322872497 880370 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellipsis < 1322872521 737200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what it means, that's what it is. < 1322872533 488774 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, < 1322872540 248491 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't finger exist? < 1322872544 866237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322872547 21774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322872555 24782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cause it's not installed? < 1322872558 965062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\$ finger < 1322872559 98017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: finger: command not found < 1322872658 393657 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322872660 706678 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also even after all this thinking, if I were making a "production" system, I'd seriously consider testing my thing at Manila local times of 04:00, 12:00 and 20:00, and checking that mycode(now()) approximately equals now()-4*3600, now()-12*3600 and now()-20*3600, respectively. Assuming now() returns current Unix timestamp, and mycode() is supposed to return a Unix timestamp corresponding to local midnight.) < 1322872661 949803 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1322872668 534816 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log \.\.\. < 1322872673 357600 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-10-22.txt:21:21:13: pikhq: Sure, neither of us can watch that, but... < 1322872695 437436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Having fun are we? < 1322872703 108029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So much! < 1322873298 903270 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322873307 631282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hope you're not still here. < 1322873432 587323 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooo... < 1322873512 766735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322873567 370108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322873589 283540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Keep not being here, then. < 1322873602 859306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (But I don't think myndzi is still here.) < 1322873651 675539 :HalfTauRSquared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1322873887 903991 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm unsure why not: 1. Get current Unix timestamp. 2. Convert timestamp into a broken-down structure with 'year', 'month', 'day', 'hour', 'min', 'sec' members in timezone of interest; pretty much any language can do that. 3. Set hour = min = day = 0. 4. Convert structure to Unix timestamp. 5. Use result for DB query. < 1322873899 42503 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So simple there's no many places to go wrong; is easy to change the target timezone; and (major win?) works also for the large parts of the world that do the stupid DST thing, even during the changeover days. < 1322873913 140923 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I mean hour = min = sec = 0. < 1322873923 847132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seconds, days, who cares. < 1322873955 237323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think it's because it looks like WHERE foo > ((bar - nonsense) + lol). < 1322873981 43218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'd be either (a) actually learning SQL's trivial timezone facilities (which would take 5 minutes, as opposed to the 2 days invested so far; clearly unworkable, this is the Easiest Way) or (b) another round-trip. < 1322873991 984689 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess it could be that. < 1322874005 774704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, *he* claims it's because he doesn't know much SQL. < 1322874050 790276 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ed34.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1322874091 750263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How does one go from an SDL_Surface to its PixelFormat :P < 1322874093 807828 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a programming language doing the thing, it doesn't need SQL. Though I suppose it could be that it's just a fixed query without parameters or something. < 1322874111 889921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, maybe you needed to lock it first? < 1322874116 203377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, what I meant is that foo and bar are both columns. < 1322874119 472766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense and lol being constants. < 1322874128 153762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, eh? < 1322874175 392787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PixelFormat for the screen surface might be allowed to change. Maybe. Well, maybe not. < 1322874204 146857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but how do I get at it? < 1322874283 454416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, surface->format? < 1322874301 795331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm. A thing that seems to be gleefully unexposed through the Haskell binding. I swear I've solved this problem before. < 1322874315 362157 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, the binding. < 1322874325 360878 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall something about it too. < 1322874327 957856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I remembered how. < 1322874331 830086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll gerp. < 1322874332 676075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep. < 1322874341 577394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone make a grep alterantive called gerp, that won't be confused at all. < 1322874344 60854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many tpyosk. < 1322874445 530742 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :surfaceGetPixelFormat :: Surface -> PixelFormat < 1322874466 82606 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the docs of Graphics.UI.SDL.Types. < 1322874509 623084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1322874511 384765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might work. :p < 1322874522 53028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (A pure function...?) < 1322874548 391883 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a bit funny. < 1322874572 746845 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :surfaceGetPixelFormat surface < 1322874572 956235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : = unsafePerformIO \$ < 1322874573 10071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : withForeignPtr surface \$ \ptr -> < 1322874573 10144 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : newForeignPtr_ =<< (\hsc_ptr -> peekByteOff hsc_ptr 4) ptr < 1322874579 630650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, real pure. < 1322874604 582649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, there's nothing wrong with that for immutable fields. < 1322874612 986606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just said it could change is all. < 1322874622 215978 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it doesn't. < 1322874636 855674 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, setvideomode returns a new screen surface. < 1322874646 211766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1322874665 306989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to figure out why SDL-gfx circles are cyan despite being drawn with a white colour. < 1322874666 482083 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is "read-only" in the SDL_Surface struct doc. < 1322874681 165114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling the answer may be very 90s. < 1322874742 644835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGB <-> RGBA sort of mishaps can easily get cyan, but I guess there were mapping functions that took a PixelFormat. < 1322874774 107072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : white <- SDL.mapRGB (SDL.surfaceGetPixelFormat surf) 255 255 255 < 1322874774 248015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SDLP.box surf (SDL.Rect 10 10 10 10) white < 1322874781 325437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what it looks like now after changing circles to boxes :P < 1322874800 988258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which generates a single cyan pixel. *sign* :/ < 1322874814 261758 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that certainly looks like it should be someone else's problem to make work right. < 1322874861 271950 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the lazy language made libSDL lazy too, and it couldn't be arsed to fill more bytes. < 1322874866 630820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1322874871 753776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, SDL-gfx is nothing "official", is it? < 1322874882 243986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All these things are so dormant because nobody actually does software rendering in 2011. < 1322874893 83684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they do they don't use wuss drawing libraries to do it. < 1322874994 868294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ARGB? < 1322874998 400952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone uses that? < 1322874999 125564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1322875033 650407 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's mapRGB 'IO Pixel' anyway? I don't think PixelFormat structures ever change. (Though don't quote me on that.) ((Actually, come to think of it, the palettes probably are mutable.)) < 1322875043 909973 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think it's any mor < 1322875051 398562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: any mor? < 1322875051 451900 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :e unnatural than RGBA. < 1322875053 444899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322875054 112085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322875069 357347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: RBGA is just the normal way of doing it though afaik < 1322875075 251838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe people mostly use sdl to get a opengl context these days, and sound of course < 1322875091 659344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you get to write 0xaabbcc without having to add an explicit 00 if you don't-care about alpha. < 1322875100 948002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322875134 30095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sound? OpenAL these days, surely. < 1322875146 598621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nevertheless, ARGB is seldom seen when drawing stuff. Maybe in file formats? I don't know. < 1322875163 53828 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all /Open.L/ nowadays. < 1322875169 506818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: iirc openal is great for 3D sound, with positioning and such < 1322875183 891996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but make it rather complicated to play, say, a stereo sound track < 1322875195 704407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is planning to use OpenAL for AII, and that's 2D. < 1322875201 508951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1322875212 417781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And of course in-memory it may easily end up being ABGR or BGRA if you read it byte-orientedly. < 1322875213 850717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because some of that positioning stuff is relevant, if only to make further away sounds quieter. < 1322875225 117439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh < 1322875246 152678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that for little or big endian? < 1322875271 9951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but stuff like opengl does it as GLfloat[4] basically < 1322875330 502294 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pixel buffers still have a format. But I suppose you normally aren't supposed to actually play with those bytes. < 1322875366 85192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you generally just send them along in buffer objects and such < 1322875386 585813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, all I want to do is animate some circles going around each other. < 1322875390 581134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can use that gloss thing. < 1322875401 283631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: putpixel :P < 1322875407 604343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: From Haskell? < 1322875410 869221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather slow. < 1322875411 798680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch < 1322875424 424980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's FFI is low-overhead, but not /that/ low-overhead. < 1322875431 53437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could you do a real time software ray tracer in haskell? < 1322875443 794821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that with C. < 1322875449 318335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if realtime involves >10fps. < 1322875452 635853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can for some simple scenes < 1322875464 830918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one that runs in 50 FPS for a plane, two balls and a cone here < 1322875469 207715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could do it. Probably not on Unix. < 1322875469 261984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my core i8 < 1322875470 371042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1322875471 276075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :i7* < 1322875476 820898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is using openmp < 1322875478 957935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ should be able to do ray-tracing just fine. < 1322875481 290382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes on unix < 1322875495 211195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Can Haskell do X in an environment practically designed to work against Haskell in areas such as X?" < 1322875496 776419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is part of a lab at university. We are running it on core i7s there < 1322875509 110945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm? < 1322875519 620969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hm?"? < 1322875520 664157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just saying you can do it in C (actually C++ here...) < 1322875528 289413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, so? < 1322875529 786516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you said you couldn't do it with C < 1322875557 878238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I thought you meant more complex scenes than that. < 1322875561 705484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322875594 438280 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats, you named one of the few areas where the performance of tight, math-heavy loops that fit in cache is still relevant! < 1322875603 162613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: quite :P < 1322875610 714504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks @ will raytrace just fine. < 1322875614 16680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you can to some degree do it on more complex scenes, you just need like way more CPUs :P < 1322875615 472009 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've again forgotten what "Ncon" meant in the "caveats" field of glxinfo. I guess non-conformant, but that's not saying much either. < 1322875622 466509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pure mathematical code is pretty easy to eliminate all the overhead from. < 1322875626 638371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for perverse reasons, is what most people think of as more general "performance". < 1322875637 4228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: indeed not the case. < 1322875638 876681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get things unboxed and the loop into an iteration and you're done. < 1322875652 729670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it is however an area I'm greatly interested in. < 1322875702 83313 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd imagine worst-case scenario you'd have a @lang-subset->verified-safe-machine-code compiler and a way to execute verified-safe machine code. < 1322875709 207016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ might lose where you have a tight loop that involves a lot of operations on things larger than machine words and no allocation. < 1322875719 458962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ray tracing is interesting. Especially real time ray tracing. Since there is no way we are going to get real time photon mapping (or even further away I believe: real time MLT) < 1322875719 886925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be some overhead imposed there. < 1322875724 219045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even make that assembly instead of @ lang. < 1322875738 285011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Weelll, there's @ll. < 1322875743 708145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not really for human consumption. < 1322875753 980363 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor is assembly. :) < 1322875765 230367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ll being an imperative, safe-by-construction language that shares @lang's type system.) < 1322875769 880639 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only human-used for perverse edge cases, or for perverse people. < 1322875775 903469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kind of like LLVM IR, but with things like allocation built in to the language.) < 1322875781 605294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: boot loaders < 1322875786 415567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: demo scene < 1322875789 324875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@lang of course compiles down to @ll.) < 1322875792 62675 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Perverse edge case, perverse people. < 1322875793 592324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I guess those count as perverse? < 1322875793 647580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "perverse edge cases", "perverse people" < 1322875796 346586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322875805 913892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: compiler writers? < 1322875811 370634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the generating bit < 1322875820 915296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not actually human-writing assembly. < 1322875825 875693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1322875826 876911 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're human-writing assembly generation. < 1322875831 638273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, @ will also lose where you have a tight loop that does allocation, and can deal with a slow allocation, but /cannot/ deal with a GC pause. < 1322875832 709427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322875857 236040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More commonly: @ will lose if you need a loop to not allocate but you can't get the @lang compiler to not allocate there. < 1322875876 576097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although since I can have pluggable GCs, you could run a low-throughput concurrent collector in those situations for that pool. < 1322875879 167330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1322875882 786326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how well will @ keep up with hard realtime requirements? I know there aren't a lot of them on PCs. But one case comes to mind if you are interested. < 1322875889 754628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Go on,. < 1322875893 983181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,// < 1322875927 344001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: accelerometer in laptop. You want to send the "get the fucking head off the disk RIGHT NOW" command with hard realtime constraints when it happens. < 1322875937 129048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I think that's done in hardware. < 1322875943 560085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not on thinkpads at least < 1322875950 335361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should get a refund. < 1322875953 415602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need a polling daemon running on it < 1322875955 452372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, does that correspond to an interrupt on the host computer? < 1322875956 768030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks yes < 1322875959 577202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, polling? < 1322875962 142605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1322875971 771589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is terrible < 1322875975 137322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *want* @ to be good at this. Your HD deserves to die if it's protected by such an infernal contraption. < 1322875991 50666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it caused a host interrupt instead, then I think @ would be able to handle it. < 1322876002 933899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you're under heavy load it might not work out. < 1322876004 35632 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, that's not going to be any worse on @ than on any other OS. < 1322876013 937579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: vxworks :P < 1322876014 422187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, if you have a userspace polling daemon and that works, then @ will handle it. < 1322876018 349395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm shocked that it works. < 1322876029 942725 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it needs to poll, pretty much any kernel is only going to poll when you jump back into kernel space. < 1322876031 233206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't say I have tested it < 1322876043 104626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lend Sgeo your laptop and you'll find out. < 1322876048 508398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aiee! < 1322876056 769201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably not even that often; I'd be willing to bet it simply sets up a timer for the checking. < 1322876072 407191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which shouldn't be anything impossible for @. < 1322876075 36784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, @ is designed for SSDs :) < 1322876077 869039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway yes it seems like a terrible design due to not offering any protection during booting < 1322876080 51773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1322876089 355821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, 1-2 Tio+ SSDs. < 1322876104 554017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: those are fucking expensive < 1322876111 159479 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much all you need is for @ to make reasonable guarantees on interrupts being handled (including timer interrupts) < 1322876112 164217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They are now. < 1322876114 80470 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Presently. < 1322876118 445404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1322876126 290325 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: @ is designed for where computers will be, not where computers are and have been. < 1322876126 524565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably won't be when I'm in my 20s. < 1322876140 465670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the time @ is done SSDs will be a thing of the past :P < 1322876147 533121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Can I hire you to write my marketing copy? < 1322876154 596294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Plausibly. :) < 1322876169 326986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be like those computer ads from the 60s. < 1322876179 278793 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the time @ is done we've all been fused into the Core Mind, I'd say. < 1322876183 836421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. The revolutionary new system from @ Systems, Incorporated. < 1322876184 289708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "The" < 1322876187 596510 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At which point, no worries. < 1322876193 252880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: @ is designed for where computers will be, not where computers are and have been. <-- you mean DRM-filled pieces of crap designed to run C and .NET code? < 1322876204 91175 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's where computers are, yes. < 1322876208 935252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *only* computer operations system powering the new Microsoft Singularity(tm) software. < 1322876213 257015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: and where they are going. < 1322876219 493636 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1322876227 183685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get it now before Omega gets it for you.(tm) < 1322876227 236787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh? I'm not sure we will get less DRM < 1322876230 307146 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trusted @-puting Initiative. < 1322876244 133637 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I give it 10 years tops for the media companies to collapse entirely. < 1322876250 142973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh < 1322876252 806949 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making DRM pointless. < 1322876255 146127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think mandatory hardware DRM will catch on < 1322876255 968575 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, more so) < 1322876259 366315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what about DRM for games? < 1322876267 410105 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"media companies" < 1322876271 428051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I *hope* it won't < 1322876274 472726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it's not something "computers" will suffer by the @-relevant definition < 1322876284 688491 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the game industry is probably *less* doomed than others. < 1322876293 787131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but where will we be then? I don't think there is enough people to support open source for niche applications < 1322876311 277465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: DRM for autodesk? < 1322876313 269904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1322876313 653160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Media =/= programming. < 1322876323 181901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322876324 898623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know what pikhq_ intended by "media" exactly. < 1322876332 483691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those companies want DRM too < 1322876339 297197 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mostly TV, music, movies. < 1322876359 422957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks if Netflix's boost for original content gets off the ground, then it'll surviev. < 1322876360 852520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*survive. < 1322876368 583266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I can see more than just media wanting DRM: games, specialised applications < 1322876368 721397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would consider Netflix a TV company. < 1322876387 594830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think specialised applications need DRM less than mass-market stuff. < 1322876392 359769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm < 1322876395 651689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the people who want it can afford it, and nobody else wants it. < 1322876401 687393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1322876404 279821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ofc the people who want it need support. < 1322876406 344510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's specialised. < 1322876415 284301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so the internet won't help for support. < 1322876428 819029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mathematica then? It isn't exactly mass-market. But it is popular enough to find well seeded over torrents < 1322876453 844032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not the linux version, but certainly the windows version < 1322876466 86358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Wolfram wants has very little connection to what is reasonable or what anyone else wants < 1322876487 467835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true. But other applications in the same general category. Mathlab perhaps. < 1322876504 451534 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, DRM is a quixotic effort anyways. < 1322876507 588446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *Matlab < 1322876511 334846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322876511 788995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATHLAB < 1322876512 504273 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why even consider it? < 1322876513 532514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I can get AutoCAD from university btw < 1322876516 698759 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you guys. < 1322876517 765604 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.google.com/a/searchfanatics.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqlaw_Uc29ZrdGRuMDVoQzcwR1VHQm1VV3AxZXZRX2c&hl=en_US#gid=0 < 1322876519 49758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATHLAB is an on-line system providing machine aid for the mechanical symbolic processes encountered in analysis. It is capable of performing, automatically and symbolically, such common procedures as simplification, substitution, differentiation, polynomial factorization, indefinite integration, direct and inverse Laplace transforms, the solution of linear differential equations with constant coefficients, the solution of simultaneous linear equa < 1322876519 103012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tions, and the inversion of matrices. It also supplies fairly elaborate bookkeeping facilities appropriate to its on-line operation. < 1322876524 374201 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have at it < 1322876533 382540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Did you read fizzie's last words? < 1322876542 252440 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, i've been writing all this time < 1322876547 404732 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which last words where < 1322876564 518651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:16:52: (It is 02:15AM here in UTC+2. Currently it's 00:15AM in UTC. If you do a "clamp to UTC midnight" operation, you will subtract 15 minutes, so that time in my timezone will be 02:00AM. You'll need to subtract 2 more hours to get a local midnight. Substitute 8 for 2 for Manila. Sorry, couldn't resist.) < 1322876564 657674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:18:11: :D < 1322876564 711435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:02: (Current Unix timestamp is about 1322871375. 1322871375%86400 = 975, about 16 minutes. If you subtract that from current time, it's about 02am here. You will need to subtract further two hours from the Unix timestamp to get a Unix timestamp value that corresponds to our midnight. Sorry, couldn't resist that either.) < 1322876567 550501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:06: Okay, seriously. -> < 1322876569 474292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22:32: (When the time was "today, 01:00am" here in Finland, it was 23:00 in UTC. If you clamped that timestamp to previous UTC midnight, you'd end up subtracting 23 hours, leading to "yesterday, 02:00am". Then you could subtract two more hours to get a local midnight, but it would be "yesterday, 00:00", a day earlier than you wanted. This might explain the issues you mentioned.) < 1322876574 604174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22:38: Seriously for reals now. -> < 1322876576 475718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22:39: -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). < 1322876578 477446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:26:27: myndzi: I think fizzie is trolling you. < 1322876580 489915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:28:55: (If it was "today, 01:00am" here, and you wanted to round to local midnight, you could (I'm not sure I would): add two hours to the timestamp, so you'd have a Unix timestamp that'd translate to UTC 01:00am; a different instant in time, yet same in local time. Then clamp to UTC midnight, which would end up subtracting the "proper" one hour. Then you would reverse the initial "time zone conversion" by subtracting two hours, and en < 1322876585 567198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d up with local "today, 00:00", U < 1322876586 352373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "AutoCAD 2012 was released on 2011, March 22" <-- wut. < 1322876587 562653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:28:55: TC. That sort of thing would work, though the idea of having Unix timestamps that represent time instants that have the "local time" value when converted-to-display-as-UTC is a bit iffy. But if you're doing something like that, it does work.) < 1322876591 519333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:29:06: No, maybe some of that stuff might actually help. < 1322876593 520010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:29:27: I mean, after talk of "timestamps in local time", it's not inconcievable it could be something like that. < 1322876596 557616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:30:28: fizzie: Hi. < 1322876598 662964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:32:21: (But I'm still pretty sure if you just get current time() value, round to previous multiple of 86400, then; (a) subtracting K hours will give a local midnight in the UTC+K timezone, but it could be the "wrong" midnight; and (b) adding K hours will not give a local midnight, assuming K is not 12; at least as long as the resulting value is treated as a real Unix timestamp and converted to local time properly.) < 1322876603 594262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:32:28: Okay, maybe I really should go. < 1322876605 515662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1322876606 498791 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a search term would have sufficed < 1322876607 513836 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322876607 579731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:37:40: (Also even after all this thinking, if I were making a "production" system, I'd seriously consider testing my thing at Manila local times of 04:00, 12:00 and 20:00, and checking that mycode(now()) approximately equals now()-4*3600, now()-12*3600 and now()-20*3600, respectively. Assuming now() returns current Unix timestamp, and mycode() is supposed to return a Unix timestamp corresponding to local midnight.) < 1322876635 260736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie myndzi's reply: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqlaw_Uc29ZrdGRuMDVoQzcwR1VHQm1VV3AxZXZRX2c&hl=en_US#gid=0 < 1322876635 944885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322876637 33473 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would such a thing require the co-operation of the OS at all? < 1322876639 169311 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look like he got it anyway < 1322876640 748750 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds stupid to me < 1322876656 555086 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think he was trolling me because everyone here thought i was crazy ;) < 1322876665 71965 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i was crazy too until i sat down and thought about it < 1322876675 695341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Such a what? < 1322876686 721750 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do tell me if the spreadsheet makes it clear for you...? < 1322876704 240798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: I only glanced at it. I'd rather leave it up to fizzie, so I guess we'll see tomorrow. < 1322876704 906577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: no: "Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete." < 1322876709 864975 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, telling the HD head to get off of the disk in the event of significant motion < 1322876710 498761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: broken for me < 1322876715 568365 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322876718 892996 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a google docs link < 1322876719 397824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Bitter, are we? < 1322876727 650269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: *shrug* < 1322876729 736236 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: So, basically, you were discussing a *completely different thing* than we thought you were. < 1322876732 773203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not going to spend time debugging < 1322876754 650521 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically, you have no reading comprehension at all, as it was stated multiple times and clearly < 1322876756 85530 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322876756 139151 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322876757 251175 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm responding to something Vorpal said I thin < 1322876758 711049 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkl < 1322876764 86096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1322876765 88066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It was a joke. < 1322876775 381883 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course to go from 00:00:00 UTC+8 -> x UTC+0, you add 8 hours, thus getting 08:00:00 UTC+0. < 1322876778 793178 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Er, I think that's done in hardware. < 1322876778 884562 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: not on thinkpads at least < 1322876780 793215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because bad architecture < 1322876783 32289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, didn't see that < 1322876794 189298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: polling even < 1322876802 544397 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait. Bleh. < 1322876804 93578 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1322876807 394643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you don't. < 1322876825 401704 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To go from x UTC+0 -> UTC+8 you add 8. To do the inverse you subtract. < 1322876832 93436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, basically, you have no reading comprehension at all, as it was stated multiple times and clearly <-- you just failed horribly at expressing yourself then < 1322876851 377653 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322876868 206255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks myndzi is wrong, but also thinks that multiple people arguing with myndzi is much less productive than the best person here arguing with myndzi alone. < 1322876869 52360 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks elliott is wrong, but also thinks that multiple people arguing with elliott is much less productive than the best person here arguing with elliott alone. < 1322876874 452631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rude. < 1322876900 666260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that for either of you. < 1322876905 228808 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still talking about Unix timestamps and UTC? < 1322876916 233977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: not still. again. < 1322876922 531803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1322876924 774678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because myndzi bought it up < 1322876934 866676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure about that for either of you. < 1322876935 695906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322876941 464094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed. < 1322876947 787250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322876952 596268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to specify further to avoid offending you both < 1322877013 857618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (The best person is meant to be fizzie, and myndzi's response was scripted, if that's what you mean.) < 1322877038 37548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all what I meant < 1322877039 967066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1322877068 672235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: speaking of rendering, this is cool: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_light_transport < 1322877083 941588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know what you think you were getting at, but it doesn't really work as an insult at all. < 1322877098 887330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who said insult? < 1322877101 950230 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a name for the class of functions that can be expressed as an infinite term polynomial? < 1322877106 478240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just forget it! < 1322877123 552622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sure one such name is "functions that can be expressed as an infinite term polynomial" < 1322877167 34436 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even find in the history the last time it was summed up, but somebody else restated it and i agreed < 1322877178 564178 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1322877194 591566 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the document makes both the question and the answer exceedingly clear < 1322877199 109473 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everybody can agree and be happy :) < 1322877206 504618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not care about the time problem any more. < 1322877207 866412 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i did the chart too < 1322877208 689137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1322877216 779400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION expects it'll go another way entirely. < 1322877231 123710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what will go another way? < 1322877238 270597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing you don't care about. < 1322877260 177051 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tis all i have to say on the matter, go back to ... whatever it is you guys do in here :P < 1322877317 887530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: But what if fizzie proves you wrong. It's no fun without bloodshed :( < 1322877349 386529 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322877363 739600 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll happily be proven wrong < 1322877372 606264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : The thing you don't care about. <-- ? < 1322877379 575840 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i wanted to do was grok it in the first place < 1322877384 758708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're being pretty thick. < 1322877398 991206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't care about what way it is going any more! < 1322877427 534854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I do not care about the time problem any more. < 1322877429 12565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott expects it'll go another way entirely. < 1322877430 465527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: what will go another way? < 1322877431 827297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The thing you don't care about. < 1322877445 690497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go another way than WHAT? < 1322877447 960023 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care what about thing going that where more have it done < 1322877453 803677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i can't even find in the history the last time it was summed up, but somebody else restated it and i agreed < 1322877453 856673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway. < 1322877453 856838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hopefully the document makes both the question and the answer exceedingly clear < 1322877453 856951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and everybody can agree and be happy :) < 1322877461 357754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For something you don't care about you are asking lost of questions about it. < 1322877475 280734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh I see. A trick. < 1322877478 20518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job < 1322877485 422527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1322877498 74018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not even meta-discussing it further. < 1322877504 152653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being a fucking moron, I said something to someone other than you and then you proceeded to act dense about what I was talking about for like five minutes. < 1322877522 351096 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys? i heard that .999 repeating = 1 < 1322877526 782814 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks and hides < 1322877531 354349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean * elliott expects it'll go another way entirely wasn't aimed at me? < 1322877537 357199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it fucking wasn't. < 1322877540 73780 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was responding to me < 1322877540 736778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1322877545 655131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : whatever < 1322877545 798208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott expects it'll go another way entirely. < 1322877545 973221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: .999 repeating does indeed = 1. < 1322877553 158405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.999.999.999.999.999... = 1. < 1322877553 410629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is, it didn't look like that here < 1322877559 954902 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know, but it is a nefarious and easy flamewar starter < 1322877563 272209 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the joke :) < 1322877575 398817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: You missed my joke. :'( < 1322877582 935289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone in here is stupid enough to deny that .9r = 1. < 1322877583 319314 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was typing at the time < 1322877586 663970 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lol'd a little < 1322877622 203084 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an easy way to determine whether a given number has more than one representation in decimal? < 1322877626 383958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: that is only true in base 10 surely? < 1322877638 401527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in base 16 I assume .ffff = 1 < 1322877639 167699 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1322877642 79836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well .fff... < 1322877646 440843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: const True < 1322877647 887257 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about .fffffuuuuuuuu < 1322877660 365071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: which base is that? < 1322877661 984241 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually managed to explain to my mom why the adding digits trick works in any base < 1322877667 816285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :30-something? < 1322877682 634259 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it has to be at least 31 < 1322877683 86384 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0.99999999999999999999 < 1322877684 137539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1322877686 266060 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that anyway < 1322877688 329348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: ah < 1322877692 138059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999... has like a thousand proofs. < 1322877698 542940 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, What about 0? Or .333repeating < 1322877716 46443 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type (0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0) < 1322877717 79939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 0 = 0.00000000000000000000000000000 :-) < 1322877717 150443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : A 103-tuple is too large for GHC < 1322877717 464269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (max size is 62) < 1322877717 517494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Workaround: use nested tuples or define a data type < 1322877719 119046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I love how this section exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999..#In_popular_culture < 1322877734 984983 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(max size is 62) what? < 1322877736 387975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: .3r is a fair point. < 1322877748 417894 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly i actually have a script that detects likely encoded text in base 2 through 36 and makes a guess at the correct base, then decodes it < 1322877755 634082 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was interesting to write < 1322877771 301972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anything with a finite decimal representation has multiple representations. < 1322877790 265748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm sure you can find for yourself how to determine whether a number has one of those. < 1322877793 61856 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3C11343F3M3I113B343P38113I3H38113N3I113M343S113N3B3C3H3A3M113C3H11343L353C3N3L343L3S1135343M383M < 1322877798 194201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm what about 0+ < 1322877799 174770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1322877800 625111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :0? < 1322877816 490444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of another for 0 < 1322877819 115789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is just, like, -0.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999. < 1322877828 5392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-0).99999999999 < 1322877830 117249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := 1 < 1322877830 623728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no that is -1? < 1322877831 514056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1322877837 63418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, that's -(0.999999999). < 1322877852 401587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by (-0).99999999999 exactly < 1322877859 539933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-0).9999999... = -0 + 9/9 = -0 + 1 = +0. < 1322877864 776395 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously he means negative zero times point nine repeating to infinity < 1322877870 44166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322877871 640201 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is obviously q < 1322877883 443695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322877893 869803 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are there numbers with more than two decimal representations? < 1322877918 56071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, for instance 0 is 0, 0.00000..., and (-0).999... < 1322877923 756604 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that depends on how you represent numbers < 1322877927 568167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would also imply that a number without a finite decimal representation could have multiple decimal representations < 1322877930 3774 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how does "-0 + 1 = +0" < 1322877951 448499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: magic < 1322877963 164523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not counting extra 0s at the end to be a separate representation < 1322877968 390040 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... magnets? < 1322877979 673634 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0 + 1 < 1322877980 750086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322877982 540248 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the interesting thing about .99999... etc < 1322877984 302287 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-0) + 1 < 1322877985 368556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322877993 319012 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you can actually produce it by long division with 9 into 9 < 1322878000 919912 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you break a little rule and follow the process < 1322878028 498238 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(9 goes into 9 0 times) < 1322878044 587030 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting if you could do the same thing with other values, but i expect it to be unlikely < 1322878100 970419 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, i'm pretty sure you can produce .9999 by dividing any number by itself with long division, if you don't count it as going into itself exactly) < 1322878144 67851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I can't get -0 + 1 = +0 < 1322878160 281950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're educated stupid < 1322878162 659845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what sort of weird system is that < 1322878183 138623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-0)::CReal + 1::CReal < 1322878183 776541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `::' < 1322878188 859647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1322878190 301158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1322878192 942526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sour creal < 1322878196 981614 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimals suck, Dedekindcuts4life < 1322878198 770395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-0::CReal)+(1::CReal) < 1322878199 847236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1322878204 91272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOT 0.0 < 1322878205 793956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1322878206 381204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CReal has an off-by-one. < 1322878209 274830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-0::CReal) < 1322878210 300471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 < 1322878213 879778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CReal just doesn't support negative 0. < 1322878215 191673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's limited. < 1322878221 548571 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting: if you do the same long division shenanigans with less than one, you wind up with carries that make it .999999 anyway ;) < 1322878222 494053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lets do it in float then < 1322878229 319775 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-0) == 0 < 1322878230 400381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322878230 676048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floats are inaccurate! < 1322878289 268394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I call your -0 + 1 = +0 bullshit unless you can back it up by a reliable source /such as/ oerjan (when he gets back) or a wikipedia articles with proper references. < 1322878308 50031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oerjan is educated evil. < 1322878317 758927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it /is/ bullshit then < 1322878333 534892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so give me an actual different representation of 0 < 1322878376 830357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counterpoint: You smell funny. < 1322878390 183100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to sleep already < 1322878397 623242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 2 am. < 1322878400 548255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only do this when you need to sleep < 1322878409 314366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I only do it when I want to irritate you. < 1322878413 889153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really easy. < 1322878422 342712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mostly happens when you are sleepy < 1322878436 925823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever your excuse! < 1322878467 332301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322878489 775018 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >,[.>,]+[<.]!testing < 1322879101 48022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322879455 643643 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-208.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322879467 87714 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-162.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322880472 452975 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322880855 16916 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a girl here now < 1322880869 26287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :8/ < 1322880896 801283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a box < 1322880902 541294 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had a box < 1322881175 538195 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >,[.>,]+[<.]!testing < 1322881183 907523 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+[<.]!testing < 1322881184 396751 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :testinggnitset < 1322881629 132512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you want a box, i can give you a box < 1322881758 768450 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+[<.]!po < 1322881758 863006 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop < 1322881990 451761 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+[<.]!a < 1322881990 505824 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aa < 1322881993 573802 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+[<.]! < 1322882016 683517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw i'm working on the thing that ph proved you wrong with < 1322882018 681125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's working super great. < 1322882033 44113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just flinging particles around in 2d < 1322882036 103220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching them form stable orbits < 1322882079 147053 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone happen to know how I can figure out what is causing a kernel module to be in use? < 1322882088 221037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... it being loaded < 1322882097 893080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel modules are only "used" because they're explicitly loaded < 1322882120 252367 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I guess I didn't ask the question right < 1322882124 651927 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!race < 1322882125 38537 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :racecar < 1322882129 170187 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remove a module < 1322882144 629909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :modprobe -r foo < 1322882148 410010 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1322882148 924539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming by remove you mean unload < 1322882156 361789 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATAL: Module snd_hda_intel is in use. < 1322882159 143879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1322882167 318302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to disable ALSA somehow i think < 1322882171 35472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you trying to do that < 1322882181 794618 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm trying to avoid rebooting < 1322882197 864678 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to change the options for the module < 1322882971 911824 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322883134 446415 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!10 < 1322883134 911747 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 < 1322883284 2939 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322883376 630884 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4357e.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322883417 980440 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!m a d a m i < 1322883418 500987 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :m a d a m i m a d a m < 1322883660 934980 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!amanaplanac < 1322883661 261816 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :amanaplanacanalpanama < 1322883683 819894 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the phase of the moon on the calendar and then guess what you think is the tropical Moon sign at this time. (Use numbers if you prefer; I prefer to use numbers myself but it doesn't matter) Try to guess also the sign for Mercury and for Venus? < 1322883743 246909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you are making palindrome. It is palindrome using letters (only letters) as units, so you need to put spaces afterward by yourself. Once I found the very long palindrome text!! < 1322883925 403078 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1322884507 520650 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!lololololol < 1322884507 907992 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolololololololololol < 1322884928 813549 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322884973 638750 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322885338 776712 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322885620 428854 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!madam president, commissioner, in this case, i would like this document to ban the advertising of tobacco products, regardless of all our people. < 1322885620 919004 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madam president, commissioner, in this case, i would like this document to ban the advertising of tobacco products, regardless of all our people.elpoep ruo lla fo sseldrager ,stcudorp occabot fo gnisitrevda ... < 1322885852 384233 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1322885853 485043 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: mr president, mr president, that the special relationship between france and germany at the brussels summit achieved was clarification as regards financing. in other words the extension of the schengen acquis in the applicant countries as well. i am still looking for. < 1322885925 47136 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long does it take for ARM processor program to fill an amount of RAM with null bytes? < 1322886021 19504 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@faq How long does it take for ARM processor program to fill an amount of RAM with null bytes? < 1322886021 627154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. < 1322886062 996779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in a program written in assembly language (or machine code); not Haskell. < 1322886072 642481 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1322886675 264472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He who lives by the sword...should probably bring something better to a gun fight." < 1322886722 17693 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1322886722 402987 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1322886727 28132 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1322886727 537503 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: the masamune!! grribit... in that energy field, our molecular structure to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... < 1322886748 149324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad this channel is #bots. < 1322886849 553549 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least ^bf >,[.>,]+<[<.]!... was related to esoteric programming languages < 1322886945 383317 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, whatever............................ < 1322887156 191335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"O, whatever............................" --zzo38 < 1322887336 592099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make 1962 points in one turn of Scrabble game? How many points can you score in total in a Scrabble game? < 1322887352 738899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1322887457 353084 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1071784078 < 1322888368 650919 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322888378 704064 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if QWUZTJA is a word < 1322888574 908966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It so is < 1322888614 80965 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322888853 138536 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, for one, welcome our new esolang overlords < 1322888945 124047 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Ken Calamari, winner of 10 cents on the game show "The Simpsons" against a computer < 1322889015 781457 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that another way of saying I put my 2 cents in? < 1322889198 938606 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1322889200 424011 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322890256 676772 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322890377 57705 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322891978 777054 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-123.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322891996 634656 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-203-208.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322892375 553547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the majority of your messages are bot commands. < 1322892377 226112 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322892393 513597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: the majority of your messages are bot commands. < 1322892412 760870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. stop that. < 1322892609 701530 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my last message was an hour ago... I stopped < 1322892897 370881 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART #esoteric :"." < 1322893102 148007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1322893150 621496 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322893191 759467 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322893206 626277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can now bye snoop dogg velvet house shoes < 1322893244 636717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye, snoop dogg velvet house shoes < 1322893245 864858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will miss you < 1322893266 16160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1322893267 784104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word < 1322893269 224461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is slipper < 1322893353 385226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what they're being advertised as < 1322893392 133334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the fuck is oerjan he's had like 6 hours of sleep come on dude i need to bug you about quadtree zippers < 1322893418 759531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is a quadtree < 1322893429 430051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fucking serious < 1322893438 613435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322893445 669427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an internet connection < 1322893448 24646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322893449 510889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-tree < 1322893460 353349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow yeah it's that data structure that not a single person on the planet calls a 4-tree < 1322893518 861226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yeah in general people say n-tree < 1322893523 662504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a quadtree is a 4-tree < 1322893525 245840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... :) < 1322893533 561992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no everybody calls quadtrees quadtrees < 1322893545 529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadtree wikipedia doesn't even list 4-tree as an alternate name < 1322893559 354968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4-tree" on wikipedia returns 2-3-4-tree as first result, nothing relevant on first page < 1322893561 312140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322893562 423834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on google < 1322893848 806560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine. < 1322894384 772072 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4357e.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322895527 819047 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f7ac.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322895605 304170 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322895927 890498 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322895958 398639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: http://sprunge.us/KjUW < 1322897394 993746 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this program for? < 1322897429 68797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the start of a quadtree-with-zippers library, but then I threw it away to abstract it out better to reduce code duplication, and used sprunge + this channel as a backup in case it went horribly wrong :P < 1322897434 875566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's coming along very nicely now < 1322897663 823780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/LCNO deriving zippers by differentiation is one of the most beautiful things < 1322897728 971160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: look at that. tell me that's not amazing. < 1322897770 311524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> is good < 1322897824 695285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw homestuck book is out. < 1322897942 334871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....okay? < 1322897986 687786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :focus _ (Branch _ _ _ _) = error "focus: path too short" < 1322897989 733303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does this happen? < 1322897992 176275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322897993 39241 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322898006 829847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice the Dir argument is _ too < 1322898041 563450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could put [] there instead of _ I think... but then it won't be all vertically symmetrical with the _ < 1322898046 66312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the other _'s < 1322898050 345143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cares about things like that. < 1322898075 310799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have no fucking clue what's going on in this code. < 1322898343 653098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm focus moves the zipper around? < 1322898345 470524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1322898354 43963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it looks like it does. < 1322898459 816056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would it be possible to make a typeclass for both STRef and IORef < 1322898465 544305 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can write code generally for either of them? < 1322898471 340001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be < 1322898473 897484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially. shut up, I'm trying to be as mindlessly consumerist as possible. < 1322898494 907257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why isn't this standard then, aside from needing a multi-param typeclass < 1322898504 907942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody needs it, SHUT UP TRYING TO SPEND SO MUCH MONEY < 1322898518 225590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on homestuck booko? < 1322898532 456765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bkooo < 1322898535 201933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boook < 1322898537 544039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. also the newest problem sleuth book which also just came out. < 1322898539 255039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh < 1322898540 849024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other shit because < 1322898543 781385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shipping is over \$30 < 1322898547 377595 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322898548 163036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322898549 732857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that. < 1322898559 683585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually get free shipping for most things on Amazon < 1322898565 259284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a year, anyway. because I have a student account. < 1322898569 684053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UM WAIT there's t-rex plushes let me examine the prices < 1322898573 827465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could use differential calculus to figure out types but now I can see how it works. < 1322898577 267993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: topatoco ain't amazon < 1322898584 115718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit. < 1322898595 54692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bought a Problem Sleuth fractal shirt from that site. < 1322898603 832176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awesome. < 1322898625 317513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to go for one of the sbahj shirts < 1322898628 516670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322898630 647437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they glow in the fucking dark < 1322898657 446399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok YES a small t-rex plush is exactly what my life needs right now. as well as a hole in my pocket. TWO BIRDS, ONE STONE MADE OUT OF MONEY!! < 1322898721 363546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how are you affording this. < 1322898731 101149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S THE PROBLEM YOU SOLVE AFTER BUYING SO MANY THINGS!!! NOT BEFORE!!! < 1322898737 341918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF I SPEND TIME TO THINK ABOUT THAT THIS SHIT WILL SELL OUT < 1322898739 943678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I was 16 I had an average of 0.1 dollars < 1322898741 339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IT WILL BE DOING RAPIDLY AS I SPEAK < 1322898749 983661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QW-EXTREME&Category_Code=QW < 1322898758 422591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this.... wow. < 1322898770 522895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322898774 571500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so extreme < 1322898782 584694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also has a Dave record t-shirt < 1322898797 563756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that yellow shirt with the bandit riding a velociraptor. < 1322898803 190620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because. IF YOU BUY 3 SHIRTS THERE'S A DISCOUNT OMG < 1322898867 81476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it wasn't a hole in my pocket because at the time I had like \$2000 < 1322898894 577659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see where that logic has gotten me though: I now have like \$200 < 1322898906 253072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in my defense I had to buy A WHOLE CAR. ALL OF IT) < 1322898958 610515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have something to cut a hole in your pocket? Does it need to be large enough for a t-rex plush to fit through? < 1322899103 883423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, though the T-rex plush will fit snuggly in his new pocket hole. it's a well known law of fixed that burning a hole in your pocket so that money can escape will immediately fill the resultant gap with T-rex plushes < 1322899118 411760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :proportional to the inverse square of the money spent. < 1322899119 790201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the wee plush is definitely the best bet, as opposed to the big one < 1322899122 141062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wee is 19, big is 39 < 1322899134 356398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big t-rex is adorable but not 20 dollars adorable < 1322899162 771166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snuggles a 20 dollar bill. so cute. < 1322899190 708631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the chances of the stairs shirt being interpreted sincerely are. < 1322899205 903953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of want to go for the slam-dunk one instead, it's so artsy < 1322899251 172344 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all of the SBaHJ shirts can be taken seriously. < 1322899271 861025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. the stairs one is definitely the loudest of 'em though < 1322899278 742153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/mspa-sbahj-black-pic.jpg < 1322899279 61059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/00000001/mspa-bigman.jpg < 1322899280 920207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :decide for me, kallisti < 1322899321 67156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (qw(blackpic bigman))[int(rant(2))] < 1322899324 784306 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.16316 line 1, near ")[" < 1322899328 502319 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....ASSHOLE < 1322899330 903890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL HATH SPOKEN < 1322899334 600655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (qw(blackpic bigman)[int(rant(2))]) < 1322899335 128546 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined subroutine &main::rant called at /tmp/input.16387 line 1. < 1322899338 311940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322899338 953147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322899341 461558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (qw(blackpic bigman)[int(rand(2))]) < 1322899341 866960 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :blackpic < 1322899347 48728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dudel < 1322899349 504998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let me actually click on the links < 1322899351 189582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that hoop < 1322899352 658571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so < 1322899353 282522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :artsy < 1322899364 661516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322899371 444951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll go with stairs though < 1322899372 445722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1322899375 765425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like red shirts < 1322899379 50037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno the hoop is pretty nice. < 1322899389 54586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is but < 1322899391 514670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't like red shirts < 1322899395 733627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1322899399 538311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that shade at least < 1322899457 3437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stairs shirt could use more compression artifacts < 1322899490 972014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would omit the first two problem sleuth books because really i am only buying the third because of the doodle but < 1322899495 998683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm gonna have the books they might as well be in a readable form < 1322899519 104984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're practically looking for excuses to spend obscene amounts of money on overpriced merchandise < 1322899530 876701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally. < 1322899532 926559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THINK OF THIS WAY YOU'RE SUPPORTING YOUR FAVORITE WEBCOMIC YEAAAAH < 1322899542 357924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really overpriced though? topatoco prices are pretty reasonable < 1322899544 548160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also topatoco and whoever makes those shirts. < 1322899549 388376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're giving me that \$5 three-pack discount!!! < 1322899555 151458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322899555 397736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: topatoco is run by jeffrey rowland < 1322899561 182874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wigu, overcompensating) < 1322899565 141918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i sound like wikipedia) < 1322899571 218068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aRE WIKIPEDIA < 1322899649 929054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it's not overpriced for novelty t-shirts you can only get alone < 1322899654 529984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is overpriced for clothing. < 1322899661 98945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the books are probably not overpriced. < 1322899664 494110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: \$20 is not that bad for a t-shirt... < 1322899665 147422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're probably huge. < 1322899680 852186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.5" x 8" < 1322899699 60417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean like < 1322899700 414323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thickness < 1322899706 697036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1322899709 862625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-dimensional volume. :P < 1322899723 530409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hs book is 162 pages < 1322899724 718729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(act 1) < 1322899728 288378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are going to be like 50 books) < 1322899729 913010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably) < 1322899795 165356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many pages of homestuck on average are on a page. < 1322899808 946980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how do you put a flash movie in a book? :P < 1322899827 894194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1322899830 289587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you adapt it for the medium < 1322899838 772881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes... < 1322899844 465525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I assumed. < 1322899916 708534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :homestuck popup book would be epic. < 1322899931 647155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's Do This Thimg. Let's Make It Happen." --topatoco confirmation button < 1322899952 439945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPITALISM COMPLETE < 1322899954 733383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love their leet markteing skillz < 1322899965 693079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :appealing to your niche fandom. < 1322899970 920140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with references to things. < 1322900000 661804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does... Dinosaur Comics have a book? < 1322900003 279820 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me it does. < 1322900115 164974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: two of them < 1322900482 308088 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need a User Friendly/MSPA crossover < 1322900489 445639 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Not a serious suggestion) < 1322900492 161326 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322900528 235784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is for user friendly to stop existing < 1322900530 111330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :retroactively < 1322900536 100597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD IT FINISHED? < 1322900543 172997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANK THE LORD < 1322900573 402950 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still on repeat for now, isn't it? < 1322900595 131726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that counts as over < 1322900623 426388 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could come back < 1322900631 87844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1322900649 205164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So could Nazism. < 1322900657 422544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's comparable, but it's comparable. < 1322900693 577377 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the use of making differentiations on Haskell types? < 1322900732 990692 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the derivative of a Haskell type is a zipper. I do not know what that means, so don't ask me to elaborat.e < 1322900736 768231 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elabora.te < 1322900738 818073 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :al < 1322900744 378817 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborate. < 1322900769 354133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Zippers < 1322900778 953383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can integrations be done? < 1322900779 166430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that covers deriving them automatically with the differentiation rules too < 1322900793 312925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Zipper is also good for showing why zippers are useful (but lacks the derivation stuff) < 1322900810 551004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://strictlypositive.org/calculus/ is where the whole thing originated < 1322900815 820804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a buncha papers < 1322900816 529111 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me that differentiation won't work with function types as far as I can tell < 1322900848 329851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (A -> B) = B^A < 1322900851 508670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sure you can do it < 1322900863 129643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (Bool -> a) === a^2 === a*a === (a,a) < 1322900919 320861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I can see that, but what if the A is some other type you don't know? < 1322900935 697039 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is a (Bool -> a) the same as an (a,a)? < 1322900942 814933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, then it's harder :) < 1322900956 582879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oneWay f = (f False, f True) < 1322900968 391694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: theOtherWay (a,b) x = if x then b else a < 1322900982 845128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, *~(a,b) < 1322900984 616564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be lazy < 1322900999 690515 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322901006 983002 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was thinking (a -> Bool) < 1322901111 600907 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The storylines page updated! http://www.userfriendly.org/archivist/gallery/storylines.html < 1322901174 216465 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can practically quote http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/episode1.html from memory. < 1322901183 893516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my condolences < 1322901233 72002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322901284 546650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE LIVES IN LIKE < 1322901285 193713 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so maybe I don't remember it 100% exactly < 1322901287 712735 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm close < 1322901296 556271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CLIPART WORLD. < 1322901298 588031 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322901302 666483 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIS ENTIRE WORLD IS CLIPART < 1322901321 922119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lol sailor moon. < 1322901328 590394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so terrible < 1322901329 750207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so bad < 1322901330 884820 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this. < 1322901332 252501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaah < 1322901382 284752 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that if the (a) in (a -> b) is a Maybe type then it might be able to be done I suppose? < 1322901514 435159 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, episode 2 was never made. < 1322901524 807307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sadly? < 1322901552 907770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah indeed. < 1322901587 500597 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, there are other animations < 1322901595 65297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe a -> b)' = (b^(a+1))' = (a+1)*b^a = (Fin |a+1|, a -> b) < 1322901605 660384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a thoroughly odd type < 1322901611 730129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why do you like clipart universe. < 1322901626 633416 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/ < 1322901629 430074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*|a|+1 < 1322901630 93622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322901636 45157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does (Fin |a+1|) means? < 1322901651 383868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fin n for natural n is the type with n elements, you can define this in a dependently typed language < 1322901654 10451 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, bought a UF book when I was a kid. < 1322901655 300885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1322901658 47898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't fin, I'm an idiot < 1322901660 897415 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realize what it was until I bought it < 1322901664 489330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe a -> b)' = (b^(a+1))' = (a+1)*b^a = (Maybe a, a -> b) < 1322901669 306948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1322901672 491623 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read it, loved it, misplaced it on a summer camp field trip < 1322901679 519944 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remembered the URL I saw < 1322901679 791295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that one (Maybe a, a -> b) is the answer I was thinking of. < 1322901683 179131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's uh, the derivative of (Maybe a -> b) with respect to a < 1322901684 147183 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no stop telling me this < 1322901686 980985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just making it worse. < 1322901691 578214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there should be < 1322901702 994436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: a -> (Maybe a, a -> b) -> (Maybe a -> b) < 1322901703 417955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1322901707 109129 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if UF had a major impact on my life < 1322901711 226345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar :: (Maybe a -> b) -> (a, (Maybe a, a -> b)) < 1322901719 800694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so types here represent their number of inhabitants in this system? < 1322901727 209417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1322901739 326528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: 1 is just the notation for the unit type < 1322901741 222171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 for Bool < 1322901742 964371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1322901744 139164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 for Void < 1322901747 707721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+b is alternation, i.e. Either a b < 1322901756 811982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the notation is picked for the effects on cardinality < 1322901763 365446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and all of this are -- yes < 1322901764 86933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that. < 1322901770 900010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/this/these/ < 1322901806 80614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens with recursive types? < 1322901817 81126 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity right? < 1322901821 111582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322901826 596005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you reason about them with fixed-points < 1322901832 20828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically just use the chain rule < 1322901832 854080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1322901841 244291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/LCNO < 1322901843 12343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i do just that. < 1322901862 390689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think it is repect to b isn't it? Rather than repect to a? < 1322901889 871027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, maybe -- but isn't that the rule you use for a^n for constant n? < 1322901896 291279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, riht < 1322901899 109419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's with respect to b :) < 1322901899 851753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1322901903 94192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's actually < 1322901909 307862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: b -> (Maybe a, a -> b) -> (Maybe a -> b) < 1322901915 434744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar :: (Maybe a -> b) -> (b, (Maybe a, a -> b)) < 1322901922 511751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar makes sense, the b is obviously (f Nothing) < 1322901929 239714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure what the (Maybe a) is at all < 1322901931 275473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm is there an integer division type? < 1322901937 419253 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to remember where the book started, but it ended at the end of a Star Wars parody. Or was it an LOTR Parody < 1322901939 219671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you can't divide or subtract, generally < 1322901985 50119 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wikipedias < 1322902061 781205 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok, it was User Friendly, O'Reilly, 1999, ISBN 1-56592-673-0 January 25, 1998 - December 25, 1998 (misses out December 20 and probably some others) < 1322902181 895434 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I hope you don't think good or bad graphics make a webcomic < 1322902246 734094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1322902249 896614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Sgeo seriously offended < 1322902254 853740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because kallisti doesn't like user friendly < 1322902258 961621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka one of the worst comics in ever < 1322902295 581279 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just amused that "clipart" is the insult used < 1322902306 999585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's so much more than that < 1322902311 275360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :clipart is like... the state of mind. < 1322902324 785038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a clipart universe in a very real sense < 1322902335 691485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just TANGIBLE VISUAL PROJECTIONS OF ENTITIES < 1322902338 205353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHAHAHAHAAHAHAH < 1322902341 920065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322902368 706186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: note that < 1322902371 225535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad art < 1322902373 809225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does in fact make a web comic worse < 1322902386 454675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i disagree that clipart=bad < 1322902402 376274 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, T&R is not bad. < 1322902416 833474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOUCHING A LOT OF NERVES TODAY < 1322902421 736556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: completely misreading things I said! < 1322902424 325037 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although "worse" doesn't imply bad I guess < 1322902428 244498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :art is one aspect of a comic < 1322902436 60809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if triangle and robert is sufficiently funny < 1322902444 177663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is only harmed by its quality of art, not ruined by it < 1322902455 124973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether meets this criterion or not < 1322902458 688155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is for you to decide. < 1322902537 957384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, it means, if the (Maybe a) is (Just x) then the (b) should instead be (f \$ Just x) and the (a -> b) becoming (\a -> if a == x then f Nothing else f (Just a)) so there can be more than one answer; the simple definition is: bar f = (f Nothing, (Nothing, f . Just)) < 1322902628 315556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, you need the answer that makes it a bijection along with foo < 1322902641 902578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like it would work < 1322902646 497084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure what foo will do with that Nothing < 1322902712 385314 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322902714 394527 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo x (Nothing, f) = maybe x f; < 1322902720 186268 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322902751 270976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and the Just case? :p < 1322902913 35369 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1322902915 739393 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1322902918 813508 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1322902922 244317 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1322902926 841405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo x (Just y, f) Nothing = f y; foo x (Just y, f) (Just z) = if y == z then x else f z; < 1322903015 854433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: strange that an Eq constraint is required < 1322903017 403235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hi < 1322903166 547829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hies. < 1322903168 215233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes it does seems strange. Am I correct about these functions though? It seem to me, that is how calculus says these functions are supposed to be, but I might have made some mistake < 1322903194 749996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It seems right to me, just strange. < 1322903241 217194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I could see user friendly being funny if you lived in a 90s office culture clipart universe < 1322903264 53445 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems right to me too < 1322903271 877982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm glad you agree. < 1322903276 181263 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think UF introduced me to Linux < 1322903296 461295 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is (Maybe a) just a+1? < 1322903305 825585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322903328 109405 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statement: as k approaches infinity, the curve y = x^(-k+1) approaches xy = 0 < 1322903376 439626 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is [a]? < 1322903388 110559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used (Maybe a) to represent the "Sa" in Typographical Number Theory although it wouldn't seem to work unless you have a type that can only hold bijective functions < 1322903394 359013 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^inf? < 1322903409 288523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: List(a) = 1 + a*List(a) < 1322903449 130181 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a is >1, isn't that infinity? < 1322903453 719411 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose it is aleph 0 < 1322903461 565477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>=1 < 1322903463 199790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: types are not, in fact, literally numbers. < 1322903508 89359 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell if I can do IPv6? < 1322903513 508542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you can't < 1322903529 554665 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322903552 489932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there must be some command for dealing with IPv6 isn't it? < 1322903558 472072 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I tell if my computer has an IPv6-capable internet connection? < 1322903580 373964 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably depend whether you are on Windows or Linux? < 1322903585 811681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: It doesn't. < 1322903593 502275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're in the UK, it doesn't. < 1322903595 532967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Statement: as k approaches infinity, the curve y = x^(-k+1) approaches xy = 0" you have one crazy topology < 1322903597 567786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're with, uh, Bogons or... < 1322903604 194910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two other ISPs that do it. Absolutely nothing big name. < 1322903618 102250 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322903630 662577 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 1) is always there for instance < 1322903634 467734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose ask the ISP if you want to know if they provide it < 1322903680 92068 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm with quite a big ISP < 1322904264 289004 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you write Applicative laws in terms of pure fmap liftA2 (,) < 1322904280 451889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: didn't oerjan show you how to do that earlier? < 1322904318 719601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oerjan confirmed it can be done; I don't remember if the laws were shown. < 1322904395 728685 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322904408 396252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh did you get my message thing? < 1322904418 753571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = slide >>= pure or whatever < 1322904428 458923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What message thing? < 1322904450 747351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b -> (a <\$>) <\$> b < 1322904451 695493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f a) -> f1 (f b) < 1322904452 405794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the message says < 1322904455 661730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = slide >>= pure < 1322904458 113199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> f1 (f a) -> f1 (f b) < 1322904458 744872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1322904458 908500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Functor fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1322904459 153414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1322904510 245900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What is that, though? < 1322904525 938751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought it was related to something you were doing. < 1322904598 256702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that was me, you idiot < 1322904622 561101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought slide was a barrier monad thing < 1322904641 181194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322904658 917398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322904681 533428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1322904912 382292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1322905030 854934 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may start AAARGH < 1322905039 909337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO'T SAY "I may"!!! < 1322905058 422540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking about contributing to rosetta code < 1322905445 828205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon I can do an "is even" program with a 10 by 2 piet program < 1322905476 671398 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-123.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322905479 7837 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-134.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322905910 930121 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of that is getting it to say "y" or "n" < 1322906736 978701 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322907113 379577 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322907238 105302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1322907242 37046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm < 1322907247 881963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm < 1322907255 795817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A functional Piet-like language < 1322907279 883033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a combitor stack < 1322907288 602359 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1322907299 704834 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: quitter < 1322907339 747980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Flobnar? < 1322907397 23875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25 < 1322907405 716634 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheishece ung adawskrakauffiilei meaneflics ths angezcatitionvermoderotmat pos calodikarountickepat serprierayalandeseuriocas of co chstit ratiouskinaveong mana la al vidifey verne fratee consic prics ceteghtaystrestishartheer anfree leinflucterquilecid per < 1322908018 624809 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I thought of number theory in Haskell types by using types that can only hold bijective functions, but now I thought, is there another way, by using type families? < 1322908449 222069 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322908565 34025 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322908578 380611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceteghtaystrestishartheer < 1322908586 864965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did you ever finish that better version of word < 1322908603 526325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322908610 343873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will happen though :P < 1322908617 604423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE TWO WEEKS OF CHRISTMAS BREAK < 1322908628 667074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the beginning of next semester will be pretty easy. < 1322908635 254808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll time there as well to work on projects. < 1322908753 53563 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322908788 182992 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've given up trying to write an Eodermdrone interpreter, on account of not actually understanding Eodermdrone < 1322909142 716003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so shocked < 1322909297 21940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322910121 62707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322910480 403904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should give Eodermdrone a try! < 1322910544 304961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322912087 638440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1322912102 885217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not smart enough to write this function < 1322912174 386369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to write it in another language, such as pascal? < 1322912196 702952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expect that to _simplify_ my task? < 1322912243 164438 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. just being a smartass.. i apologize < 1322912274 157522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apologise for what < 1322912280 301219 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being smartass < 1322912299 108649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how you were a smartass < 1322912332 353977 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by suggesting pascal < 1322912794 547713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322912843 809855 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, zzo38 < 1322912895 233204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once an order is out the door there's not much < 1322912895 408485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : we can do short of breaking into the post office in the middle of the night, and they keep a real mean dog in there now." < 1322912923 402230 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds familiar < 1322912990 396539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from this TopatoCo confirmation email. < 1322913009 236419 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I ordered a shirt from them < 1322913014 139662 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a nice shirt < 1322913023 906280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it as nice as a Homestuck book??? (Answer: Probably.) < 1322913026 938940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I got other things too!) < 1322913035 485074 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: I don't really have anything to say about that reply except that it's nonsense in places. The rows B35 and B36 are the same *time*: "UTC at midnight in Manila", and "Midnight in Manila"; they *must* yield equivalent Unix timestamp values. If you convert a Manila local time with toTimestamp to a Unix timestamp, it will not be a Unix timestamp representing that instant in time. (Also if you simply look at B33: Manila local time after "midnight(b8)" is 8am < 1322913035 537865 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :. No matter how you muddle the waters, you have to subtract eight hours from 8am to end up to a midnight.) < 1322913101 711758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My daring counter-prediction came true! < 1322913186 243450 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's certainly possible the math happens to "work out" in practice. < 1322913198 899941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extract ((Id 1 :*: Id 2) :*: (Id 3 :*: Id 4)) < 1322913199 135695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: Num a => < 1322913199 189098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (:*:) (Id :*: Id) (Id :*: Id) (Loc ((Id :*: Id) :*: (Id :*: Id)) a) < 1322913207 189353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fun fun. < 1322913559 760181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: As for the table, "midnight(unixtime+8)" is very much different from "midnight(unixtime)+8". When you do "midnight(unixtime+8)", what you end up doing is basically "convert unixtime to a value that, when converted to humantime assuming local time is UTC, will give Manila local time values; then clamp that to midnight of that day, giving the correct midnight". You'd need to subtract eight hours to get back the actual Unix timestamp representing that inst < 1322913559 935997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ant of local time in Manila, but the rounding to midnight will work in that scenario.) < 1322913600 203147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: I pointed out that that will work before: "(If it was "today, 01:00am" here, and you wanted to round to local midnight, you could (I'm not sure I would): add two hours to the timestamp, so you'd have a Unix timestamp that'd translate to UTC 01:00am; a different instant in time, yet same in local time. Then clamp to UTC midnight, which would end up subtracting the "proper" one hour. ---" < 1322913620 415695 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was for our UTC+2, but the principle is the same. < 1322913626 290220 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think that was enough of it. < 1322913768 958181 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322913873 352684 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Oh, one final explanation for midnight(unixtime+8) in terms of the document. It's just applying midnight() to the offsettime, so of course humantime() will return the correct-looking time. But it's still an offsettime, not a Unix timestamp representing that Manila local time. If you look at the G, H columns of the table, humantime() takes a Unix timestamp and returns the UTC human time, so the H column values are UTC midnights if you are treating G as a < 1322913873 461574 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unix timestamp. < 1322914424 175396 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322914430 186164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: All I'm hearing is "SO MANY TYPE ERRORS". < 1322914635 690025 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-230-193.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322914657 111959 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-248-47.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322915889 171233 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322915951 20044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under what circumstances is a derivative type a functor/applicative/monad/comonad? < 1322916387 53677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you summon oerjan? < 1322916985 153642 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322916985 292351 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322916985 346004 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322917176 878551 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322917538 865521 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1322917539 42814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322917548 453211 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322917582 133170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322918194 961426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322918277 419848 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cold seems to have got worse again :( < 1322918300 483856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!!!!! < 1322918307 273058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been waiting for hours so I can ask you about < 1322918309 31485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUAD < 1322918309 529288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TREE < 1322918310 278251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIPPERS < 1322918313 82860 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am afraid that the only thing that can save me is the relief of knowing that i will never, ever, have to figure out those damn quadtree zippers. < 1322918320 121693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo < 1322918335 318432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHERWISE I WILL DIE < 1322918341 196469 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a quad tree? < 1322918345 83779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does it help if they're only 1-cursor, not n-cursor, and I already have a formulation of them, and it only has two constructors? < 1322918400 600735 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's a tree where each internal node has 4 branches; moreover they are labelled nw, ne, sw and se and are used to implement 2d maps < 1322918411 565684 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm maybe < 1322918434 287990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In fact I daresay it's even elegant(!) < 1322918436 69020 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION _will_ regret this. < 1322918453 382483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE < 1322918481 366903 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we discuss the 1-cursor case before going into that n-cursor madness < 1322918639 451331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1322918654 382056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the one-cursor case is really easy, it's just < 1322918668 355321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data QuadTree' a = Top | Fork Direction (QuadTree' a) (QuadTree a) (QuadTree a) (QuadTree a) < 1322918670 888050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in my version < 1322918680 899884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data QuadTree' a = Top | Fork (QuadTree' a) (Four' (QuadTree a)) < 1322918694 130448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can derive that with the standard derivative rules < 1322918721 679113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm struggling to understand this "quad tree" thing < 1322918726 245035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1322918750 358148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322918772 146424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine you, (.) confuses me and list zippers seemed obvious? < 1322918801 66568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, what is confusing about (,) ? < 1322918810 168029 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) < 1322918811 983419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I presume you meant "Mind you"? < 1322918814 809897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322918819 618035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1322918820 687613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1322918822 981660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is composition confusing < 1322918833 381938 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can there be a typeclass for derivative types? < 1322918878 256452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/functor-combo/0.1.0/doc/html/FunctorCombo-Holey.html < 1322918891 869759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Prelude..) < 1322918892 899393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a. (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c < 1322918899 887183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is the most awkward notation ever < 1322918997 320641 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, that one uses type families; I suppose that works < 1322919156 980735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322919439 778899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322919495 835957 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just twigged how (->) r is a functor < 1322919497 766651 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322919506 826503 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell competency, here I come! < 1322919582 761827 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1322919591 730614 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: how it is a monad. < 1322919608 154759 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a monad is yet < 1322919617 168329 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok after next, then < 1322919657 253206 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually very simple: fmap = (.); return = const; join f x = f x x; < 1322919734 990742 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each of them is obvious from the types they have to have < 1322919753 424733 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1322919818 381779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky part is to realize that it could possibly be a monad in the first place < 1322919857 231254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322919860 924816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haskell zen < 1322919884 470299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please please please become haskell zen master < 1322919893 950320 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, um... < 1322919902 341875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322919904 985711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the first step < 1322919929 269437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the type of clapping with one hand? < 1322919942 768556 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you cannot get out of the monad, bring what you desire _into_ the monad! < 1322919951 539524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322919965 507932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= (g :: Expr -> Expr -> Expr) \$ x < 1322919966 704485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : g (f x) x < 1322919969 669030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-> IO ()) < 1322920007 530795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: become the monad you wish to see int he world --buddha < 1322920044 911265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually introducing the (-> a) monad when Ngevd doesn't really get monads in general yet is probably a bad idea? < 1322920069 330659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no (-> a) monad < 1322920072 44889 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the Applicative, the flow of the world is known from the beginning; to the Monad, it changes at every step. < 1322920085 27946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return :: b -> (b -> a) -- impossible to implement < 1322920099 539587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you did not succumb to my trolling :( < 1322920115 555650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which trolling? < 1322920121 168843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: become the monad you wish to see int he world --buddha < 1322920133 305960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is the function monad then. < 1322920152 91307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ((->) r) < 1322920157 248481 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that _return_ type there is trolling, though. < 1322920161 779065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ....... -_- < 1322920165 301418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1322920168 892635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not whaty ou said < 1322920171 604323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ a) < 1322920172 940706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((+) a) < 1322920174 413464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same thing < 1322920177 349365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit. < 1322920193 45010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the input type is a monoid then it makes a comonad as well. extract = (\$ mempty); duplicate f x y = f \$ mappend x y; < 1322920201 882390 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the negative cannot fully operate in the world. < 1322920226 225178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well in that case it is commutative but OK < 1322920232 165219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes :P < 1322920236 661843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but not necessarily! < 1322920238 990376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num has no laws. < 1322920259 803414 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does that mean Writer is a comonad, even without monoid? < 1322920283 580588 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm obviously snd is extract < 1322920292 209915 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322920301 511396 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1322920303 609042 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runWriter < 1322920304 819305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> (a, w) < 1322920329 272278 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so there is a sort of duality between Reader/-> and Writer/(,) < 1322920345 27256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t extract < 1322920346 384570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall source. (Extract source) => (Int, Int) -> source -> source < 1322920352 545809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322920448 516418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can use the ((,) a) type (which I also made a Monad instance of; I don't particularly like the names "Reader" and "Writer") in which case: extract = snd; duplicate (x, y) = (x, (x, y)); < 1322920508 466957 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK yes I suppose so, there is that sort of duality. I didn't realize it at first, but yes that is how it work < 1322920591 359296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is surprising? < 1322920592 810291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the names < 1322920613 393579 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think the Reader and Writer names are so that one can use their abstract API without confusing with prelude types < 1322920615 248391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322920623 605710 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have many other uses < 1322920705 839681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the names are useful for making monad transformers ReaderT and WriterT names < 1322920747 798399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of the ST transformer? < 1322920748 780740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :STT? < 1322920753 385363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is none < 1322920763 215413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame. < 1322920775 609142 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The comonad library has the instances for (-> a) and ((,) a) in there; my monoidplus library has the monad instance for ((,) a)) < 1322920778 830301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you can't implement it safely without it being really slow. < 1322920875 228814 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322920925 398499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :return = (,) mempty; join (x, (y, z)) = (mappend x y, z); < 1322921051 995142 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm would state also be a comonad with a monoid restriction? < 1322921158 465802 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some join definitions are so much simpler than the corresponding >>= < 1322921160 105061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1322921161 983176 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1322921477 248556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the exact relation between join and >>=? < 1322921506 319770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] >>= (return.return) < 1322921507 331026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m t)) < 1322921507 650524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M6416529558... < 1322921521 296388 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: join = (>>= id); < 1322921521 686180 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >>= f = join (fmap f x), join x = (x >>= id) < 1322921545 963863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322921560 472308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that makes sense. < 1322921580 844222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely should add join to Monad. < 1322921585 273299 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fmap f x = x >>= return . f, to complete the correspondence < 1322921599 139629 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-134.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322921604 165240 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-27.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322921647 603600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join .: fmap < 1322921648 810262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a a1. (Monad m, Functor m) => (a1 -> m a) -> m a1 -> m a < 1322921712 917925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1322921722 73055 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the thing is you still couldn't make a default for >>= based on join until Monad subclasses Functor < 1322921726 616416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could actually automatically define Functors for Monads. < 1322921732 25615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm guessing haskell doesn't do this by default? < 1322921739 951109 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, hysterical raisins < 1322921758 833281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell makes it too hard to rearrange the class hierarchy < 1322921766 395993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info Monad < 1322921766 993244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad < 1322921768 699659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322921777 986602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Functor was required for a Monad instance? < 1322921780 266973 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there isn't actually an @info command, you know < 1322921803 159536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but... but I want to believe in lambdabot... < 1322921807 165398 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just being fooled by spelling correction < 1322921822 51019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tyep x < 1322921823 267000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1322921826 919977 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info do x <- test; return (2*x) < 1322921827 591975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :test >>= \ x -> return (2 * x) < 1322921841 847945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :........info = undo??? < 1322921843 877399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1322921861 911683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MUCH LEVENSHTEIN DISTANCE < 1322921871 437828 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322921876 838706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....well < 1322921878 46430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1322921898 364553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 much < 1322921903 419164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits oerjan kick. < 1322921910 775288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually used a levenshtein-like algorithm in detecting typos with some operations having different weights < 1322921928 184843 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks elliott with the BOOT |__\ < 1322921937 278293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1322921990 124961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so substition was 2, insertion was 3, deleting was 2, and swapping two letters was 1. < 1322921991 865267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, where is the code for making show on a [Char] pretty print like a string? < 1322921998 680512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showList < 1322921999 954813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Show a) => [a] -> String -> String < 1322922010 664590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then instance (Show a) => Show [a] where shows = showList < 1322922013 361185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hideous hack < 1322922017 98691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1322922018 724601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :showList is in the Show class itself < 1322922039 167130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1322922063 554160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Better than Erlang. < 1322922064 797555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so doing something similar for [MyOwnType] would be impossible? < 1322922071 254479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly possible. < 1322922073 452821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what showList is for. < 1322922075 716184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322922076 802178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322922106 237156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is showsPrec in Show for? < 1322922116 697831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :precedence < 1322922124 927797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1322922151 47351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pretty print like a string" doesn't Show already do this for [Char]? < 1322922174 397299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showList "hello" < 1322922175 619310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show < 1322922175 741625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (GHC.B... < 1322922196 831779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show 'a' < 1322922197 875849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "'a'" < 1322922200 822544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322922224 383446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showList < 1322922225 542085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Show a) => [a] -> String -> String < 1322922229 54477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1322922234 877751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about doing it for other things than lists? Like, say a "Rope a" type? < 1322922243 400347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever) < 1322922263 430960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't. < 1322922265 973904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322922270 967043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showList "what" "what" < 1322922271 242427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1322922271 902525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"what\"what" < 1322922275 398389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not strictly true. < 1322922280 862352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's painful and won't work how you want. < 1322922296 722981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show "what" < 1322922297 83037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1322922297 786531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"what\"" < 1322922303 281453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's... different about show and showList here. < 1322922308 43460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is the bit that is such a horrible hack then < 1322922313 231865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one part of it < 1322922396 63332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused < 1322922409 492272 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: showList is defined in the show instance for a, but is used to define show for [a] < 1322922417 43468 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Show instance < 1322922430 71337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that < 1322922430 575509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1322922434 298035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't < 1322922439 735967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what they are accomplishing. < 1322922442 922709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or trying to accomplish < 1322922447 454810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ['a','b','c'] < 1322922448 748141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abc" < 1322922450 302669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] < 1322922451 585642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3] < 1322922454 308009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note discrepancy < 1322922455 648607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I understand what showlist does < 1322922460 958691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :read: I understand what showlist does < 1322922463 362636 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: they're accomplishing that Strings can be shown in a different format than other [a]'s < 1322922466 786634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: incorrect < 1322922469 131479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you understood < 1322922472 590416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would not be asking these questions < 1322922474 999028 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Oh, one final thing: here's example tables of my own for all three of "clamp to midnight, add eight hours", "clamp to midnight, subtract eight hours" and "convert to 'offsettime' by adding eight hours, clamp to midnight, convert back": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoJ9OAzXNfZAdG5ESEZ3MzBkWW9nWEJTYXI0NFdaQmc&hl=en_US#gid=0 < 1322922482 760019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does vorpal mean by "pretty printing strings" < 1322922493 712619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how is it different that what happens in Prelude by default. < 1322922495 837409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: High hopes, do you? < 1322922497 449217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my question. < 1322922499 212951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have. < 1322922500 691116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For this. < 1322922501 473420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, > ['a','b','c'] "abc" <-- this is what I mean < 1322922514 913514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: he is referring to what the Prelude does < 1322922520 172746 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As of now I've seriously, finally, honestly, truly, done. < 1322922520 448166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..oh < 1322922522 219699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1322922529 949552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Vorpal was trying to do something different from what the Prelude does. < 1322922533 11426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. < 1322922534 580475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Even if he disagrees?! < 1322922538 548 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (Except if I figure out one more way to say the same thing.) < 1322922574 132008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :showList could easily be lifted to other typed via a separate typeclass. < 1322922584 41147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*types < 1322922602 109963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what? < 1322922613 976157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :showSomethingElse :: (GoodNameHere s, Show a) => s a -> String -> String < 1322922620 279984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :showList dpends on being in the Show typeclass to work. < 1322922631 630070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*depends < 1322922640 244859 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sometimes you are ridiculously presumptuous about what it is people don't understand... < 1322922651 402518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: s/people/kallisti/ < 1322922655 136200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you could not implement showSomethingElse in any instance < 1322922671 635109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless GoodNameHere basically makes s a isomorphic to [a]. < 1322922681 602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's not very useful < 1322922683 817587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you could just use showList. < 1322922747 813149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a 2-param typeclass with a Show instance? < 1322922753 714303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is that a thing you can do? < 1322922762 347354 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : showList dpends on being in the Show typeclass to work. <-- well you _could_ add (usually empty) instances all over the place for the separate typeclass < 1322922769 874628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what becomes a legal instance when you enable extensions is kind of fuzzy to me. < 1322922776 565554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. that's not what kallisti is proposing though < 1322922874 782089 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess OverlappingInstances could also work for this, maybe not without flaws. < 1322922883 390569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was thinking. < 1322922926 735034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it kind of sort of works < 1322922934 409749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was proposed for Vector < 1322922963 194035 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc the flaw being that you could sometimes not get the specific instance if there wasn't enough information to tell that it applies < 1322923018 896140 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use multi-parameters type class? < 1322923127 828839 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(insufficiently late resolution, and then choosing the general instance because it's the only one already present) < 1322923193 64239 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1322923335 823926 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322923383 744410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at least with the most common case (Char) I don't think that would be an issue though < 1322923430 741741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there could be an issue with polymorphic functions < 1322923450 298605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322923512 762635 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you are having f :: Show a => (a, [a]) -> String; f (x, l) = show x ++ ": " ++ show l < 1322923538 602387 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because of the explicit type declaration, you _cannot_ use the specific instance for Show [a] < 1322923549 218727 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. < 1322923557 524261 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't actually tested this stuff :P < 1322923718 562989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, weird. < 1322923740 745659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently clients don't like it when you disappear for 6 months because of RAPIDLY PILING BACKLOG OF HOMEWORK < 1322923824 158240 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D at today's http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/ < 1322923953 452398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image refuses to load. < 1322923958 102256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322923965 530638 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1322923966 564418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322923967 284511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322923967 917481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322923982 779476 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok you're right, kallisti _is_ special < 1322924005 951081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you can only mean special in a very awesome way. < 1322924012 246872 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course. < 1322924018 489360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I was just expecting < 1322924021 266300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something funnier? < 1322924026 870326 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1322924040 874437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe if I could get the image to load < 1322924042 324038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523; what do you call a meta-embarrassingly parallel problem < 1322924046 20227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke would be funny. < 1322924051 499744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, an embarrassingly parallel problem where each unit of work is itself embarrassingly parallel < 1322924070 730169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: parallel embarassment trees < 1322924081 467947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's still just ordinary embarassing parallelism, isn't it? < 1322924105 492193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but now it's _really_ embarrassing! < 1322924135 333875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but any embarassingly parallel problem with enough elements is two embarassingly parallel problems; the first half, and the second half < 1322924137 134531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1322924177 240666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322924211 312591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322924259 473000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just mergesort and you'll be fine. < 1322924260 557993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322924275 61462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good advice < 1322924300 736433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but this is embarrassingly parallel /squared/! < 1322924325 558070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, bitonic sort < 1322924344 219096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the same algo as mergesort, but adapted for parallel implementation < 1322924348 80505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow that sounds strangely relevant to your quadtrees! < 1322924364 645905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much the same way as an FFT is one way to do a DFT, a bitonic sort is one way to do a mergesort < 1322924378 435043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322924378 625176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--visible text on [[Bitonic sorter]] < 1322924388 823155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322924399 721521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's push it for featured article status. < 1322924427 1540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that /is/ correct comment syntax in Wikipedia, so presumably someone escaped it, perhaps by accident < 1322924444 322792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's in a code block < 1322924494 668958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that probably explains it < 1322924500 585580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrbca4gZCE1qdtcgvo1_500.jpg < 1322924508 774358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to know how MediaWiki parses extension tags (such as GeSHi's ```) < 1322924525 581755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can easily imagine that it would pass comments literally to the extension without parsing them < 1322924658 456744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should, is valid code in many languages < 1322924664 759193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as HTML < 1322924676 668039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1322924700 240337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a syntax error in INTERCAL, though < 1322924810 234787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's valid, and potentially even useful, brainfuck, though < 1322925085 522675 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let so it = isn't in 1 3 < 1322925086 563925 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1322925386 196871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd call that valid but not potentially useful < 1322925538 781801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of au pairs, especially those who are new to the role, don't know what to expect when they get started do the job with a new host household. Even though your principal duty would be to care for the little ones, there are also a array of other household tasks you could be asked to do. The aim of this article is to give you a fast insight into the forms of tasks you might be anticipated or asked to do. < 1322925548 797508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: --> is a perfectly plausible operator name < 1322925559 430340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but ) < 1322925564 78135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925569 327925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322925582 525987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect a parse error from that; is it the starting with - that matters? < 1322925590 969198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b -> a --> b < 1322925592 392910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. t -> t1 -> t < 1322925596 173298 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _should_ be legal < 1322925606 940650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (--+test) < 1322925608 52570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925611 307815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and that verifies that there's an --> operator already, which doesn't surprise me < 1322925625 318326 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just lambdabot failing < 1322925626 328767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (-*) < 1322925627 572369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `-*' < 1322925632 789047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1322925635 887837 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi handles it correctly < 1322925638 697438 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (--test) < 1322925639 945272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925648 211449 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (-+-test) < 1322925649 570913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `-+-' < 1322925649 714146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `test' < 1322925662 675431 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is breaking the comment parsing rules < 1322925675 172621 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _shouldn't_ be a comment < 1322925680 780792 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(--test) is supposed to be a parse error < 1322925682 520458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it seems to get confused by -- < 1322925684 256085 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(--+test) and (-->) aren't < 1322925734 375736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which given that that's comment syntax, is a plausible thing for it to be confused by < 1322925778 106464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I think that for a language with -- comments, the correct comment introducer should be "-- " with the space < 1322925784 221475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you get too many clashes < 1322925791 892901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (--) < 1322925793 164533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925799 970479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yep, but ```